1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, November 27, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 2 1 I N D E X November 27, 2006 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 4 3 1.1 Consider/discuss report from Butt-Holdsworth 4 Library Advisory Board president 9 5 1.2 Consider, take appropriate action on Kerr County member(s) of Butt Holdsworth Library Advisory Board 32 6 1.3 Consider/discuss approval of bids for electrical, 7 plumbing, HVAC, and pest control 33 8 1.4 Consider/discuss/approve replacing old vending machine with new and improved ones 35 9 1.5 Consider/discuss/approve new contract with Five 10 Star Wireless for better rate, authorize County Judge to sign same 38 11 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 12 proposed policy to allow county employees to waive participation in employee medical benefits plan, 13 establish county contribution to employee's cafeteria plan or flexible medical spending account for 2007 40 14 1.7 Receipt of responses from County Treasurer with 15 respect to various IRS issues, appropriate action concerning such responses 58 16 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 17 amount of Kerr County Treasurer's official bond, effective January 1, 2007, in accordance with 18 provisions of § 83.002, Texas Local Government Code 65 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set up Texas Automated Vehicle Inspection System 78 20 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 21 concept of revision of Plat for Lot 1, Heartland Acres; set public hearing for same 83 22 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 consider division of property and septic for Lot 248A, B&R Ranches, Precinct 2 84 24 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 25 concept of revision of Plat for Lots 12, 13A & 13B, Riverside Park; set public hearing for same 94 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 27, 2006 2 PAGE 3 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to purchase three pieces of equipment at the expiration of their 4 leases 94 5 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a companion resolution acknowledging UGRA's 6 participation in Kerrville South Wastewater Project, Phase IV 99 7 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on report 8 and recommendations of TCEQ Dam Safety Division regarding Flat Rock Lake Dam 100 9 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt 10 a Resolution of Commendation for the service and sacrifice of Naval Petty Officer Charles Komppa, 11 formerly of Ingram, Texas 108 12 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on proposed interlocal agreement between Kerr County 13 and City of Ingram with regard to OSSF jurisdiction and services 111 14 1.18 Consider/discuss appointment of Jennifer Correa- 15 Knoulton to the Kerr County Child Service Board 120 16 4.1 Pay Bills 121 4.2 Budget Amendments 124 17 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 129 18 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 19 Assignments 129 20 --- Adjourned 138 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, November 27, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this time and 9 date, Monday, November the 27th, 2006, at 9 a.m. It's just a 10 bit past that now. Commissioner Baldwin? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Would you please 12 rise and join me in a word of prayer and the pledge of 13 allegiance, please. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Please be seated. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public that wishes to 17 be heard concerning any matter that is not a listed agenda 18 item, feel free to come forward at this time and tell us 19 what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on a listed 20 agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation form 21 at the back of the room and get that to us up here. It's not 22 essential that you do that; it just helps me to have some sort 23 of notice when we get to that agenda item that there's an 24 individual that wishes to be heard on that item, and hopefully 25 not miss you. If, however, you wish to be heard when we get 11-27-06 5 1 to a listed agenda item and you've not filled out a 2 participation form, just get my attention in some manner, and 3 I'll be happy to recognize you and give you the opportunity to 4 be heard. But at this time, if there's any member of the 5 public that wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a 6 listed agenda item, feel free to come forward at this time. 7 Seeing no one coming forward, we'll move on. Commissioner 8 Baldwin, what do you have for us? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I have a couple of 10 things. I had a -- my family and I had a great Thanksgiving 11 time, saw lots of stuff, did a lot of things, ate a lot of 12 food. And -- but one of the most exciting things that 13 happened is -- I think it was the day before Thanksgiving, on 14 Wednesday, I was watching the San Antonio news, and they were 15 talking about the rush -- shopping rush and travels and all 16 that, and all of a sudden, my entire television screen was 17 filled up with my good friend Bill Williams' face, the San 18 Antonio airport. Just like that. (Laughter.) I mean, that's 19 the campaign look. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I remember the camera being 21 there, and I thought that'll never make it. It made it? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It made it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did it say "vote for" on the 24 bottom? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but I got to tell you, my 11-27-06 6 1 first thought was, god, can't I get away from that guy? 2 (Laughter.) My whole family had to look at it. It was -- but 3 the Thanksgiving holiday got better, thank you. And I wanted 4 to announce that this Thursday is the birthday of one of our 5 foundered fathers, our fearless leaders here in the county 6 family. Our illustrious Sheriff has a birthday this coming 7 Thursday, the 30th. And -- didn't think I knew that, did you? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't think you knew that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got kidneys too, buddy. 10 That's all. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I didn't know I made 13 the big screen in Buster's house, but that's good. We -- we 14 did do a little traveling; went up to the Dallas area to have 15 Thanksgiving with our son and his family. And I thought, oh, 16 why would I choose to fly on a weekend when they're saying 17 that 59 zillion people -- turned out it was a snap. I 18 couldn't believe it. It was an absolute snap getting through 19 security on both ends. A lot of turkey, had a good time with 20 family, got to hold a couple grandbabies, and back in time to 21 do the County's business. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner Letz 23 has notified us he's not going to be able to be with us today. 24 He is encumbered with two sick children that he's going to 25 have to tend to their health needs, so he's not going to be 11-27-06 7 1 with us. Commissioner Nicholson? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Some sad news. A life-long 3 friend of Buster Baldwin and a 25-year friend of mine, T.D. 4 Hall, died this weekend. And he's one of the heroes in west 5 Kerr County. He and his family have contributed a lot to us, 6 so his passing is a sad time. I think he was -- I told 7 Buster, I think he was the first man I met when -- 25 years 8 ago when I first started coming out to west Kerr County. He's 9 a good man. Let's see. We got a little rain in Ingram and 10 Hunt this morning, but not -- not in the western part of the 11 county. Very dry, and conditions are rife for wildfires, so 12 still urging everybody to be careful about that. A lot of 13 discussion occurring in west Kerr County, particularly Ingram 14 and Hunt, about the proposed TexDOT project to raise -- I 15 think it's seven low-water crossings. Concerned about the 16 environmental impact and -- and other concerns, and I'm going 17 to arrange for that issue to be heard at the next meeting, 18 first meeting in December. That's all I've got. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I too was sorry to hear 20 of the passing of T.D. Hall, deputy constable, longtime family 21 here in Kerr County. When I heard of his passing, it occurred 22 to me that it's really somewhat the end of an era and the old 23 school of law enforcement. I think that the Sheriff probably 24 may have some of those feelings also. I, too, had the 25 opportunity to view our Precinct 2 Commissioner on the big 11-27-06 8 1 screen, and the impression that I got from -- from the shot 2 that they made of him there was that -- a question and 3 frustration whether or not he was going to get through all 4 that, so I'm glad to hear that it was -- glad to hear that it 5 was a snap. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know that he's a 7 politician, because his wife tried to step up there and say 8 something to him, and he elbowed her to get in front of that 9 camera. Did you see that part? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I didn't see that part of it. I 11 must have come in a little late. I'd like to give recognition 12 to our County Clerk's office. We recently received 13 notification from the State of Texas that our local County 14 Clerk's office was recognized as a five-star local registrar 15 for vital statistics; that's birth and death records. Some of 16 you may know, even though you -- you weren't born in this 17 county and you want to get a birth record, they have the 18 capability through their system of getting a certified copy of 19 your birth record from Montague County, El Paso County, 20 wherever else, which is really a time-saving situation. But 21 there were a few counties that received five-star recognition 22 that were given exemplary status, and I'm proud to report 23 that -- that Kerr County was one of those that received 24 exemplary status recognition. And our clerk here, Cheryl 25 Thompson, of course, is one of the deputies there in that 11-27-06 9 1 office that devotes a lot of her time to birth and death 2 records. So, our -- our congratulations to them on achieving 3 that status. 4 Let's get on with the agenda. We've got a number of 5 items to consider, and hopefully we can move through them 6 reasonably quickly. First item on the agenda is to consider 7 and discuss a report from the Butt-Holdsworth Library Advisory 8 Board president, Mr. John David Lipscomb, presenting the 9 Board's position on the issue of a library taxing district. 10 Commissioner Nicholson, I believe you, in conjunction with 11 Mr. Lipscomb, had asked that this be put on the agenda. Do 12 you have any preliminary remarks? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, sir. Go ahead, Mr. 14 Lipscomb. 15 MR. LIPSCOMB: Thank you. Excuse me. Morning, 16 Judge and Commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to 17 appear before you and relay the results of our study on a 18 taxing district for the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library. I 19 assume that everyone has the packet of information. I -- if 20 it's agreeable, I thought I might just go through some of the 21 key points. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we don't have it. 23 MR. LIPSCOMB: You didn't get a copy of this? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kathy Mitchell got copies a 25 couple weeks ago and should have distributed them to you. 11-27-06 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: May have gotten them in advance of 2 the meeting, I believe. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess we did. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's when I recall seeing it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. LIPSCOMB: But let me just bring -- like I say, 8 bring a couple of -- a few of the major points here. You may 9 recall during a joint meeting in August with the City and the 10 County officials, it was brought up, I believe by Commissioner 11 Letz, about looking into a taxing district for the library. 12 So, the Library Advisory Board, since we are an advisory 13 board, took that in hand and -- and our bylaws dictate that we 14 make recommendations to both City and County officials on 15 library matters, so we took -- undertook this task. And 16 that's why I'm here today, to report on that. First thing I 17 want to bring up is, there's a couple of Local Government Code 18 legislations that's important. Chapter 326, which is some 19 older legislation, allowed a taxing district for libraries 20 with revenues funded through sales tax, and as of '05, there 21 were 14 taxing districts that had been created under that 22 legislation. In fact, in November of this year, there was at 23 least one more that I'm aware of that was created in eastern 24 Travis County, so that's been a very successful program. But, 25 unfortunately, because of our sales tax set at the maximum 11-27-06 11 1 here, we -- we couldn't operate under that. 2 So, what we'd have to do if a taxing district was 3 formed, we would function under Chapter 336, which allows for 4 ad valorem property tax and/or a combination with sales tax. 5 So, that's what we really looked at, was -- was how the 6 library could be organized under Chapter 336. Which I might 7 point out, to date, far as I know, there is no library 8 district that's currently organized under 336. Okay. Of 9 course, the taxing district would have to be approved by the 10 voters, and the taxing district would operate with -- with 11 seven members similar to the way the Advisory Board operates 12 now. But these members would have total control over the 13 operation and -- and the funding, responsible for the funding 14 of it. There would be four members from Kerrville and three 15 members representing the County, assuming that the library 16 district would encompass just Kerr County as -- as 17 Butt-Holdsworth serves now. 18 That's not to say that the district couldn't extend 19 past the county lines. That's entirely possible too. The 20 reason there are four members from Kerrville, it would -- I 21 would envision -- I think the Board envisioned that it would 22 be -- that's the responsibility of the lead government entity, 23 and that's defined as the government entity that provides over 24 50 percent of the assets for the district. And since 25 Kerrville -- City of Kerrville owns the building and maintains 11-27-06 12 1 it, it seemed logical that they would be the -- the lead 2 government entity. Creating a taxing district would not be a 3 simple task. There's really a wealth of information. The 4 Westbank Community Library District, which was one of the 5 earlier ones formed in Travis County, has placed all of their 6 research, all the work they did on how they created that 7 district on the web, and anybody can go there. I'll be glad 8 to provide that web site. It was in this packet. And you can 9 go to it and really inspect and see the amount of work and 10 effort that's required to -- to put a taxing district 11 together. 12 The other thing that was a consideration was under 13 Chapter 336.351 of the local code; once a taxing district is 14 formed, it can't be dissolved. And so that -- that's kind of 15 a scary situation that you can't reverse something if it -- if 16 it didn't work out. Another item that came up is voters would 17 have to approve this taxing district, and it would be run by 18 appointed members, and that seemed a little strange in light 19 of other agencies that operate on property taxes in Kerr 20 County are elected; Commissioners Court, Kerrville City 21 Council, K.I.S.D., Headwaters, and then there's -- I believe 22 there's a couple of emergency districts out in -- in the 23 western part of Kerr County that also operate under elected. 24 So, I guess it boiled down to a question of how would the 25 voters feel about entrusting appointed members using revenues 11-27-06 13 1 from property taxes? 2 The one good plus, I think, about a library taxing 3 district is it would provide the library with a stable source 4 of funding, and that's something that the library desperately 5 needs. It's tough to plan if you don't know where your next 6 dollar is coming up. And -- and we really don't have -- 7 although there's been some efforts made recently, we really 8 don't have a capital improvements budget, and with a nearly 9 40-year-old building, that's an important issue too. The -- 10 some of the problems, I think, with a taxing district is -- 11 excuse me -- it's going to cost more. If you think about it, 12 currently the library, since it's a City-owned facility and 13 the staff are City employees, payroll, human service functions 14 are performed by the City just as a matter of course. But if 15 a taxing district is formed, then the taxing district library 16 would have to contract with someone to do payroll or hire 17 someone to do it, so that's extra expense. And then, of 18 course, Chapter 336 dedicates -- or requires that a taxing 19 district would have to come up with additional costs; for 20 instance, elections would have to be paid for by the district, 21 and then audits -- annual audits, since you're -- since it 22 would be an organization that receives public funds, they'd 23 have to do an annul audit. That's something that's currently 24 not paid for sure. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You were saying -- let's see. 11-27-06 14 1 You were talking a few minutes ago about the public maybe not 2 being in favor of an appointed group running the operation. 3 Now you're talking about elections. Would they be appointed 4 first and then elected after that -- 5 MR. LIPSCOMB: No. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- first year? 7 MR. LIPSCOMB: No. Under Chapter 326, the old 8 legislation that operates under sales taxes, they are elected. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You jumped into another piece 10 of law; is that what just happened? 11 MR. LIPSCOMB: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MR. LIPSCOMB: But under 336, which is where this 14 district would have to function, they are appointed. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 16 MR. LIPSCOMB: Sure. Sorry for the confusion. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all right. 18 MR. LIPSCOMB: And, of course, if voters approved a 19 district, the initial rate would be set, and you could have 20 possible elections later on if that rate needed to be changed. 21 And, again, if -- if you didn't do good planning and you 22 didn't have good P.R., voters could turn you down, and now 23 you're back kind of in the same situation. You're operating 24 with maybe insufficient funds, and -- and, again, you can't -- 25 you can't dissolve it, so you're stuck with it. The other 11-27-06 15 1 thing about a taxing district, it would really shift the 2 burden of funding. Let me see if I can explain. Right now, 3 you think about some -- take me, for example. I live in the 4 city of Kerrville, so a portion of my Kerrville city taxes go 5 to fund the library. I also, of course, live in Kerr County, 6 so a portion of my Kerr County taxes go to fund the library. 7 All right. If a library district was formed, of course, the 8 County operation and the City operation would no longer be 9 funding the library, so that means that that portion of the 10 city funds that are put in would have to be re -- excuse me -- 11 redistributed over the entire county's residents. And so it 12 would shift from Kerrville residents paying kind of twice to 13 everyone in the county paying a little bit more, because 14 they'd have to assume that portion that the City's currently 15 paying. 16 So, in a way, all county residents, even though all 17 county residents really probably don't use the library as much 18 as I do, because I'm right here in the city and it's very 19 convenient for me, they're going to end up paying a little bit 20 more for it. And the other thing about additional costs, one 21 thing you'd want to build in too is this capital funding issue 22 that I brought up a minute ago. So, in summary, getting to 23 the bottom line, on October 17th, after some study, the 24 Library Advisory Board voted to recommend not to create a 25 library taxing district for the Butt-Holdsworth Memorial 11-27-06 16 1 Library. And as an independent function, there was a special 2 committee composed of The Friends of the Library organization. 3 They also studied it, and October 23rd, they reached the same 4 decision, not to recommend a library district. If there are 5 any questions, I'll be glad to try to respond. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have some questions. 7 MR. LIPSCOMB: Sure. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, David, for your 9 presentation, and thank you, the members of the Advisory 10 Board, for taking this matter under study. It's an important 11 issue. It's an important issue to the taxpayers of the county 12 who are residents of the city, and it's an important issue to 13 all those who use the library. I'm puzzled, to say the least. 14 If one of your conclusions is that it truly is a -- a 15 mechanism to establish a stable source of income, which it 16 would be, spread across the tax base county-wide, it seems to 17 me that some of the other issues that the Board discussed and 18 opined against are excuses rather than reasons. For example, 19 administrative costs, audit costs, election costs, those items 20 that you talk about are already paid for by the City, there's 21 nothing gratis out there. Nowhere is there anything gratis. 22 Those things are assumed. Those costs are assumed by the City 23 right now. The fact that you would have to pay for 24 administrative services or provide them yourself seems to me 25 not to be a reason to move forward; it seems to me to be an 11-27-06 17 1 excuse. 2 Revenue shifting, I don't follow that logic at all. 3 County pays. The city people -- as you point out, city people 4 pay twice. Maybe yes, maybe no. Both the City and the County 5 would have to back out the equivalent amount of dollars out of 6 their respective line item -- budget line item if this were to 7 pass. That's the only way I would support it, and that's what 8 I said early on when we talked about this. Both the City and 9 County would have to do that. That means you're creating one 10 source of funding. One source of funding. Whether the City 11 redistributes its funds that they used to use for the library, 12 or the County redistributes its funds that it used to use for 13 the library for other purposes or took them totally out of 14 their budget is not a matter at this point for -- for debate. 15 It can and will happen, depending on the circumstances of both 16 budgets at the time. As far as I'm concerned, it should be 17 backed out totally, and that amount -- that tax rate should be 18 reduced, and I hope the City would see it the same way. So, I 19 don't follow the logic involved in revenue shifting. If 20 you're going to create a library district and we're going to 21 say it's one penny or two pennies or whatever per hundred, 22 spread county-wide, that's it. That's it. There is no 23 revenue shifting, so I don't understand that logic. Maybe 24 somebody can enlighten me. So, in conclusion, I would ask you 25 a question. What's the answer? 11-27-06 18 1 MR. LIPSCOMB: I wish I had an answer for you. And 2 in response to your comments, I'll say this. The Board -- and 3 I assume The Friends did too; I'm not really privy to what 4 issues they looked at. But I know for the Board, we really 5 looked at the taxing district issue. We didn't look at the 6 other issues. And -- and maybe if we'd done that as an 7 all-encompassing thing, maybe we would have reached a 8 different conclusion. I guess what I'm saying is, at this 9 point in time, given what we know now, a library district is 10 not recommended. Now, what are the options? We can continue 11 as we are, City and County sharing the cost. The taxing 12 district which we've been talking about this morning, or 13 totally municipal library. To me, personally speaking, I 14 think -- believe those are the three options that we have. 15 So, I guess what I'm saying is, we really haven't looked at 16 the municipal situation, and -- and perhaps a continued look 17 at the sharing situation. But just looking at the taxing 18 district, we didn't feel like it was a good solution. The -- 19 the comment about the stable revenue source is the only real 20 positive issue that came out of it. The rest of them were 21 perhaps question marks. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In my view, that's what -- 23 that's the issue that should drive the train. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make some comments. 25 And for those of you who don't know, I'm the Court-appointed 11-27-06 19 1 member of the Library Advisory Board. And I'm not going to go 2 back over the arguments. You've been very articulate in 3 expressing the Library Board's reasoning behind the 4 recommendation. And I hear Commissioner Williams' concerns, 5 and I share some of them, about whether or not there will be 6 duplication in administrative expenses and that sort of thing. 7 I also share your belief that a steady source of revenue is a 8 -- is a positive, something that would be very desirable. And 9 I want to talk about two reasons why I object to the library 10 district. And, by the way, the -- the Library Board did a 11 very thorough discussion of these issues, and the vote to 12 recommend against it was unanimous. The first and foremost 13 thing is, I don't -- I don't have confidence in appointed 14 boards. I see that in Kerr County, we've got a number of 15 taxing districts, and one of those districts is an appointed 16 board and the other is elected, and I have more confidence 17 in -- in the functioning capability of the elected board. 18 Maybe -- maybe that confidence is not completely deserved, but 19 that's been my -- my experience. 20 The second thing is, I don't have any confidence 21 that total taxes will -- won't go up by more than a million 22 dollars if we form a -- a library district. I don't have 23 confidence that either the City or the County will not use 24 that -- that -- will really take that money out of their total 25 budgets. I believe that it will be -- it will be used, and 11-27-06 20 1 that the average taxpayer will see an increase in their total 2 property taxes to the tune of more than a million dollars. 3 So, those are my reasons for thinking that that's not the best 4 solution. And I also agree with Mr. Lipscomb that the only 5 three obvious solutions are a municipal library, a -- a 6 cost-sharing between the County, or a library district. None 7 of them are perfect, but one of them is the way that it's 8 going to have to go. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court have 10 any questions or comments? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have a couple of 12 comments, Judge. Thank you. I'm in agreement with almost 13 everything said here today. Appointed boards are bad when 14 they -- when you're dealing with public money. We should 15 never approach that, and I did not know that. And, as well, 16 once the board is in place -- voted in place, you cannot 17 remove it. That's a horrible thing to get into, and I would 18 never support anything like that. I'm not questioning your 19 ability to read the law, but I -- I never heard that before, 20 and I really would like to know a little bit more about that. 21 And as far as capital improvements, you brought that up twice, 22 and I'm glad you did. But that's a totally -- in my opinion, 23 a City function. The City owns the place. They need to 24 capital-improve the thing. You know, that's -- that shouldn't 25 be an issue that's brought to this Court in any way, in my 11-27-06 21 1 opinion. Appreciate your time, and very well-done 2 presentation, by the way. 3 MR. LIPSCOMB: Thank you very much. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for your work, 5 Mr. Lipscomb. Appreciate it. Let's move on to -- let me 6 first ask if Mr. Benham, as Friends of the Library, wants to 7 weigh in on this issue. 8 MR. BENHAM: Yes. Thank you, Judge. I turned in a 9 form when I came in. Let me first apologize for my voice. I 10 was forced to go to Houston over the weekend, and down there 11 they have pine pollen. Here we have cedar pollen, and that's 12 a pretty deadly combination, but I'll do my best. Let me, 13 with your kind permission, weigh in on two or three things. 14 First of all, I give the Library Advisory Board the highest 15 possible marks for the thoroughness with which they've looked 16 into this. And I agree with some of their conclusions, but I 17 believe some of them, with all due respect to them and to your 18 long and serious study of library -- the library situation and 19 the options and so forth, Commissioner, deserve some more 20 study. Let me say, first of all, that I hope that every 21 member of this Court, every member of the City Council, is 22 convinced by now of the importance of having the best library 23 system we possibly can have to serve the people. I won't go 24 back over all the statistics that I've shared with you in the 25 past, but I'll just mention two. 11-27-06 22 1 First of all, more people use this library in a 2 given year than live in Kerr County. It's one of the most 3 heavily used libraries in the state of Texas. And you can 4 verify that, by the way. That's not just a figure I pulled 5 out of the air. Secondly, when the good folks like 6 yourselves, who often, at considerable sacrifice, in other 7 counties -- in adjoining counties in the hill country, 8 adjoining communities in the hill country, look at their 9 libraries, they see a need that not only requires operating 10 money, but they see a need that calls for capital investment 11 and growth. Commissioner Letz' constituents down in 12 Comfort -- or some of them are in Kendall County, but in 13 Comfort, they've doubled the size of their library in the last 14 couple of years. Harper, with, I'm proud to say, some 15 assistance from The Friends of the Library here, among others, 16 has opened a new library. Junction has moved into larger 17 quarters. And perhaps the most striking one is in 18 Fredericksburg, where the Gillespie County Commissioners last 19 year came up with over a million dollars to upgrade their 20 library. That's in addition to operating funds. So, you're 21 in good company if you see the importance of supporting the 22 library. I won't -- don't -- I won't dwell on that further. 23 Secondly, on the issue of not being able to dissolve 24 the district once it has been formed, I certainly am not in 25 favor of irrevocable actions. As some of you know, I, with 11-27-06 23 1 great lack of effectiveness, opposed the tax freeze for the 2 City of Kerrville for precisely that reason. Now that it has 3 been voted in, it would take a constitutional amendment to 4 change that. That was one of the worst pieces of legislation 5 sold to the people of Texas by folks in Austin since 6 reconstruction. But it's not as bad as it sounds. You can -- 7 and I have some experience in this. You can set the tax rate 8 at zero, and give all of your -- the people that you're 9 paying -- you've been paying anything, notice that they aren't 10 going to get paid once the amount of money that's in the till 11 is gone, and you've pretty well solved your problem. We did 12 that when the City of Houston was taking over utility 13 districts in the area where I lived, the suburbs. And one of 14 the reasons they wanted to was that we had some very 15 substantial reserves, money set aside to pay off our bonded 16 indebtedness, which allowed us, by the way, to lower the tax 17 rate every two years as we paid off our debt. 18 Well, the city -- "Oh, man, look at all that money," 19 and they came out to start annexing us and other communities 20 in the area. Well, the -- the board that I was on lowered the 21 tax rate to exactly the amount required to pay off that 22 remaining debt, and the City couldn't get its hands on that 23 money when they did annex us. And that was one of the few 24 good things about it. So, you can -- you cannot totally 25 resolve the issue of something you're stuck with, but you can 11-27-06 24 1 get about 90 percent of the -- 95 percent of the way to it not 2 being such a problem. 3 On the issue of appointed versus elected boards, 4 I've served on both kinds. I was secretary and director of a 5 public utility district for 12 years before I moved up here. 6 I had to stand for election for that job. And I'm proud to 7 say I never lost an election. Some of my colleagues got voted 8 out; I didn't. I don't know why they chose to put up with me 9 when they wanted to get rid of others, but they did. I also 10 was a director and then president for 12 years of a property 11 owners' association, a rather large one in suburban Houston, 12 for which, again, I had to be elected every two years, so I 13 know what that's about. However, I was at one time a 14 director, and subsequently vice chairman of one of the largest 15 fire departments -- on the board of one of the largest fire 16 departments in the state, and that was an appointed job. And 17 I was appointed to fill a vacancy on a school board years ago, 18 for which -- to which I was subsequently elected. I've seen 19 it from both sides. 20 I certainly would prefer an elected board of 21 anything, just about. But I would point out to you that most 22 of our state government operates on the basis of appointed 23 positions. TexDOT, Department of Corrections, all of the 24 university Boards of Regents, and thousands of districts -- I 25 don't know why they made an exception for library districts, 11-27-06 25 1 but there are thousands of districts in this state, special 2 districts, hospital districts, for instance, flood control 3 districts and so forth, where the people are appointed. Now, 4 they have to be bonded, and they are subject to accountability 5 in the area that if they are found to be doing anything wrong, 6 they can be sent to one of the Department of Criminal Justice 7 facilities just like any other criminal. But they -- they are 8 appointed. They aren't elected, so it's not the worst thing 9 in the world that could happen, even though, as I say, I 10 believe in elected boards, and I commend you gentlemen for 11 making the sacrifices you do to stand for election and to 12 serve once you are elected. I'm going to miss you, by the 13 way. I have developed an enormous respect for you since we 14 got acquainted, and I'm sorry you're leaving this -- 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You too, sir. 16 MR. BENHAM: Thank you, I appreciate that. I would 17 prefer, frankly, to see the City/County partnership continue. 18 I think it's important to have as much oversight as possible. 19 Again, I think the -- I think Commissioner Nicholson, 20 Commissioner Williams before him, and perhaps some of the rest 21 of you before I came on board, have done a commendable job of 22 representing the County's interest on the Friends of the 23 Library, and more recently, the Library Advisory -- I'm sorry, 24 the earlier Library Advisory Board and the new Library 25 Advisory Board that was recently set up. By and large, the 11-27-06 26 1 City -- City Council representatives have -- have done a good 2 job. But I don't think anybody who has paid any attention to 3 this issue at all would argue that the current setup of having 4 to have a -- I hesitate to use the word "fight"; let's just 5 say it was a, hopefully, respectful debate every year over how 6 much it's going to cost and who's going to pay for it -- is to 7 the benefit of either the County or the City. 8 I can tell you from spending a lot of time at the 9 library and talking to the staff, it certainly doesn't help 10 you keep a competent staff. These people say, "I don't know 11 whether I'm going to have a job a year from now. I'm looking 12 around. I might take a job somewhere else," and some of them 13 have. Some of them, I'm happy to say, are committed enough, 14 they're staying on. It does -- it is disastrous from the 15 standpoint of morale. It doesn't give you the kind of capital 16 money that you need. I'm not in sympathy with the idea of 17 building an entire new library, although some people propose 18 that. I think the existing building, with some adjustments to 19 accommodate those of us who don't get around very well any 20 more, and who prefer restrooms that are designed for the 21 handicapped and so forth, I think that building could be good 22 for a long time. Parking needs some improvement. But I -- I 23 don't sympathize with the idea of building an entire new 24 library. However, there are definitely some serious capital 25 needs in that building. I mentioned restrooms, lighting. The 11-27-06 27 1 wiring is 40 years old, so forth. And for us to have to go 2 around with our hand out saying, "Please give us some money 3 for the library" is not a good way to run an operation. 4 The Friends of the Library, I'm proud to say, have 5 got an extraordinarily, I think, good record for a community 6 this size. We routinely donate $20,000 a year that we raise 7 from various sources, mainly our book sales, to the library to 8 cover what you folks can't find the money and the Council 9 can't find the money for. We raised $400,000 to build -- to 10 buy that building between the library and the history center 11 to protect it for future use as part of the library operation. 12 We do what we can, but our resources are finite. We -- we 13 can't just pick up the tab for huge -- huge expenditures. And 14 I -- as I say, I -- I hope that if this district option does 15 not fly, that there will be a further serious, responsible 16 effort to come up with a system that will avoid this annual 17 row over the library. 18 I don't believe that it should pit the city and 19 county residents against one another for two reasons. First 20 of all, a lot of the people that use that library live outside 21 the city limits. Secondly, as all of you know, much of the 22 growth in Kerr County is taking place outside the city limits 23 of Kerrville. Saddlewood, those beautiful subdivisions that 24 are going in out along the Guadalupe River, those aren't in 25 the city limits, and they aren't going to be in the city 11-27-06 28 1 limits of Kerrville, because City of Ingram is between 2 Kerrville and those subdivisions, and you can't leapfrog over 3 another municipality to annex them. So, the -- the county -- 4 the library is, to a considerable extent, a county facility in 5 the sense that it's used by county people, even if it doesn't 6 belong to the County. 7 So, I hope you will -- let me say one other thing, 8 if I may, in terms of the -- I'm sorry, two. I'll be as quick 9 as I can. The question of the cap on sales taxes, I know that 10 exists. However, I would remind you gentlemen that -- pardon 11 me. I would remind you gentlemen that our governor, now that 12 he has survived the election, has said he wants to see the 13 sales tax cap raised, as part of a cap on the increase in 14 property values -- taxes on property caused by increased 15 values. I, frankly, am dubious that the governor and his task 16 force will find a way to repeal the law of supply and demand, 17 which is what the price of real estate is governed by, but 18 he's going to give it a try, and so it's not inconceivable. 19 It won't happen tomorrow. It may not happen for a couple of 20 years. It may never happen, but it's conceivable that that 21 sales tax cap may go up, which would give -- put the option 22 out there of funding a -- a library through sales tax. 23 Another plus in that is that, finally, the people in 24 Washington have realized that people pay taxes whether they 25 live in a state with state income tax or not, and our sales 11-27-06 29 1 taxes collected in the state of Texas are once again 2 deductible from federal income tax. It should have been taken 3 out of the deductibility category, but it wasn't. Anyway, 4 it's back. 5 Finally, on the question of going to the voters with 6 this, I know that Kerrville, at least -- I can't speak for the 7 County. Kerrville, at least, are -- and K.I.S.D. have a 8 history of voting down the first bond issue -- bond issue the 9 first time it comes around. I was on the committee that tried 10 to convince the voters that we needed a new ag barn, and that 11 failed, as you know. I haven't heard whether that's going to 12 be resurrected. But the history in other areas of this state 13 is that libraries help sell bond issues. The County 14 Commissioners in Harris County and the City Commissioners in 15 Harris County, whenever they wanted to sell a bond issue to 16 the voters, they made sure there was some money there for 17 libraries. There was a need, anyway, with the growth, always 18 of trying to catch up with -- with demand for library 19 services. But the fact was that they made a point of -- in 20 that laundry list of projects, of having libraries, and there 21 was good, solid research that said that helped sell the voters 22 on voting for that particular bond issue. 23 So, the public does support libraries. They 24 certainly support this one. And I would urge you to keep 25 looking, but I would also -- with all due respect to my good 11-27-06 30 1 friend, John David here, I would also urge you to continue, 2 with -- with the help of your County Attorney, exploring the 3 possibilities of a -- of a district. I don't think it's the 4 perfect option, particularly as it's now constituted, as it 5 would have to be constituted under the current law. But laws 6 can be amended, and are. And so I would hope you won't -- I 7 was delighted to hear what -- what Commissioner Williams had 8 to say. I'm sorry, one more thing. This really is the last 9 one, on the question of how you're going to pay for it. 10 That utility district that I mentioned earlier, 11 which served a population about the size of -- that of 12 Kerrville, we had one part-time employee. We contracted for 13 everything. We contracted with a consulting engineer to make 14 sure it was being run right. We contracted with a company 15 which operated our wells and our water treatment and our 16 sewage treatment facilities. We hired a lawyer by the hour 17 when we needed legal work done. We hired an auditor to do our 18 annual audit. We didn't keep an auditor on the payroll 19 year-round; we hired them. They did their work, they got 20 paid, and they left for another year. We had a bookkeeper. 21 We paid a certain amount of money each month. None of these 22 people got any benefits. None of them had any job security. 23 They were there at the pleasure of the Board. 24 So, you can have a district which can function. If 25 I do say so, we functioned rather well. Our charges to our 11-27-06 31 1 customers were about half what they got charged by the City of 2 Houston for water and sewer service after they got annexed. 3 It can be done. It can be done efficiently, and at a 4 reasonable cost to the taxpayers, to the citizenry, if it's 5 done right. So, I would hope you'll continue looking at the 6 district along with your other options. You've been very 7 generous in letting me growl here this morning, and I 8 appreciate that. If I could answer any questions, I would be 9 happy to. If not, I'll again thank you for your time and 10 commend you for your service. Yes, sir? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 12 questions or comments as a result of -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one comment, Judge. 14 And I really want to direct it to the County Attorney. 15 Following up on what Commissioner Baldwin made mention of, 16 it's been some time since we've looked at both chapters of the 17 law, so it's not fresh in my mind, but even though the law may 18 provide for the appointment of the initial board, does the law 19 that has been cited by Mr. Lipscomb prohibit subsequent 20 election of trustees? That's my question to you. Not today. 21 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other -- any other questions or 23 comments as a result of Mr. Benham's presentation today? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Mr. Benham. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 11-27-06 32 1 MR. BENHAM: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have anything 3 further to offer in connection with the Agenda Item 1? Let's 4 move on, then, to Agenda Item 2. Consider and take 5 appropriate action on Kerr County appointed members of the 6 Butt-Holdsworth Library Advisory Board. Commissioner 7 Nicholson. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's one, perhaps two 9 pieces of business that needs to be handled under this agenda 10 item. We need to reappoint Reverend Bruce Baker, who was an 11 interim appointment to -- to fill in for the vacancy created 12 by the resignation of Reverend Shults, and I'm going to -- I'm 13 going to make a motion here in a minute that we reappoint 14 Mr. Baker for a two-year term. You will also have a vacancy 15 come January 1 on the required appointment of a Commissioners 16 Court member. I'm expecting that you'd like to wait until 17 January to deal with that, or the way this is worded, if you 18 wanted to, you could deal with it today. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be happy to appoint Bruce 20 Oehler to that board. I think it would be wise to -- for the 21 chair to carry on. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay with me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you think, Number 4? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to have to 25 continue to live in Precinct 4. (Laughter.) I will make a 11-27-06 33 1 motion that we appoint -- reappoint Mr. Bruce Baker to serve a 2 full two-year term, and that that appointment be effective 3 immediately and continue through the end of 2008. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated. Any question or comment on the motion? All in 7 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any further 12 action to be taken in connection with Agenda Item Number 2? 13 Let's move, then, to Agenda Item 3, if we might. Consider and 14 discuss approval of bids for electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and 15 pest control. We received bids and referred them to our 16 Maintenance folks for review, recommendation -- and 17 recommendation. What do we have here, folks? 18 MS. DAVIDSON: Well, we know we'll go with Whelan's, 19 'cause they were the only one that went, and Compton's for 20 HVAC. So, now we're going to electrical, which was D.W. 21 Electric or Guadalupe Electric. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Question on that. What percentage of 23 the calls only require the services of a single electrician, 24 as opposed to an electrician and helper? Do you have a 25 ballpark estimate on that? 11-27-06 34 1 MS. DAVIDSON: No. Usually -- do they have just one 2 person come when they're -- 3 MR. BOLLIER: Most of the time they bring two. 4 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay. 5 MR. BOLLIER: They always bring two. They always 6 have. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have just one quick 8 question on the plumbing summary. 9 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the bottom, you're 11 talking about it being a bid from Whelan, and I understand at 12 the bottom -- is this just a typographical, where it says 13 "Compton's charges"? 14 MS. DAVIDSON: Oh, yes, I'm sorry. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That should be 16 "Whelan's charges." 17 MS. DAVIDSON: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think our procedure here in the 20 past is not to exclusively select one prospective provider, 21 but to direct -- to approve the bids, with the direction that 22 you prioritize; when service is needed, that you first call 23 the low bidder for that particular type of situation, and if 24 that provider is unavailable, then you -- and you need that 25 service to be performed at that time, you call the second, I 11-27-06 35 1 believe has been the procedure, has it not? 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 3 MS. DAVIDSON: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which I move that we do. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 8 of the bids as indicated. Any further question or discussion 9 on that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 10 raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 15 to Item 4; consider, discuss, approve replacing old vending 16 machine with new, improved ones. Ms. Davidson brought this to 17 the agenda. Do you want to tell us quickly what you got here? 18 MS. DAVIDSON: Major upgrade. Compared to what we 19 have upstairs, these look tremendously awesome. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's the vendor? 21 MS. DAVIDSON: The vendor that we have now? Or that 22 is coming? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, what's your proposal? 24 Who is that? 25 MS. DAVIDSON: They go by -- Refreshment Specialists 11-27-06 36 1 is the name of it, and they are statewide. They have a person 2 here that services out of Kerrville. He called me this 3 morning and said he is willing to come twice a week to fill 4 up. We have a large variety compared to what we have up there 5 right now. There's a whole list, front and back, of these 6 that we can swap out at any time, and two machines with Coke 7 or refreshments. It's water also, cappuccino, juices, and 8 snacks. Two machines up there -- varieties will fit up there. 9 So -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of the agenda item, to provide a -- put in place a new vending 14 machine provider. Any question or discussion on the motion? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One question -- go ahead. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One question. If I remember 17 correctly, this particular -- it's a small, compact machine. 18 MS. DAVIDSON: Very small. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't take up much room. 20 Are you going to consider putting one on the lower level as 21 well? 22 MS. DAVIDSON: I want to do two upstairs and one 23 down on the lower level. And we can add and take away as many 24 as we want. We have no contracts; there's no money involved. 25 They put it in. If we don't want it tomorrow, they'll take it 11-27-06 37 1 back out. There's no obligations whatsoever. And we can put 2 in as many as we want. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This probably answers my 4 question. Do we get a piece of the action? 5 MS. DAVIDSON: You want me to ask? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure about that. 7 Probably, without a contract, none of those conditions, we 8 probably don't. 9 MS. DAVIDSON: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That was going to be my question. 11 And -- and if that has not been decided, I would strongly urge 12 you to inquire what is the standard split for the proceeds on 13 this kind of an arrangement. 14 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 16 MS. DAVIDSON: Will do. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I'll be real interested to learn 18 that every place they got machines, that they're not paying 19 any portion of the proceeds. 20 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay, I'll do it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I would find that hard to believe, as 22 a matter of fact. And whatever the standard split is, why, 23 that's what we ought to get. 24 MS. DAVIDSON: That's right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11-27-06 38 1 MS. DAVIDSON: Okay, I'll check into it. Thanks. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 3 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 9 Item 5; consider, discuss, and approve a new contract with 10 Five Star Wireless for a better rate. Existing contract with 11 same provider is 800 minutes at a cost of $99.85. New 12 proposed contract, same time, with a cost of $69.85, and 13 authorize County Judge to sign the same. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 17 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only question I have, is 19 I thought that we were trying to round up the entire county 20 system to do it one -- all of -- everybody at one time. I 21 didn't know we were going to continue piecemealing this thing. 22 I mean, this is a whale of a deal. It's a great deal. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's a 30 percent reduction. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about a master 25 contract, but I guess the various phones expire at certain 11-27-06 39 1 times. Those programs are -- whenever you start, that's when 2 they -- two years later or whatever. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this ballpark same as 4 yours, or exactly the same? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's -- we have a lot more 6 minutes, of course, so the figures are a little bit different, 7 but I believe it's pretty close to exactly the same. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good deal. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know ours went down a couple 10 hundred dollars. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if we stay at it, maybe 12 we'll get everybody on the same horse here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Like you, Commissioner, I -- I 14 thought we were trying to move to -- trying to consolidate a 15 lot of these ones, and to try and get the best rate possible 16 by virtue of having a larger contract. But I realize it may 17 be difficult. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of like insurance. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. Any further question 20 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 21 signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 11-27-06 40 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Job well done, Miguel. 2 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good presentation. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 6; consider, 5 discuss, and take appropriate action on the proposed policy to 6 allow Kerr County employees to waive participation in employee 7 medical benefits plan and establish County contribution to 8 employees' cafeteria plan or flexible medical spending account 9 for the year 2007. Mr. Looney? 10 MR. LOONEY: Good morning, Judge, Commissioners. 11 I'm sorry I missed Mr. Williams on the -- on the TV screen. I 12 have to go back and connect my TiVo, see if it recorded it by 13 some chance. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He won't care; you're not a 15 registered Kerr County voter. 16 MR. LOONEY: Oh. If I may put on my risk management 17 hat real quick before I talk about the one particular subject, 18 if, in fact, you do decide you want to take a share of the 19 proceeds from your vending machines, be sure that you check 20 with the contract that you have certificates of insurance from 21 the provider of that service so that y'all are covered from 22 the liability side of it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably pretty good 24 advice. 25 MR. LOONEY: Sorry about that, but my risk 11-27-06 41 1 management hat comes on when I get to meetings sometimes, and 2 I have to -- the flags go up a little bit. But what we did at 3 our last meeting when we discussed medical insurance was to 4 suggest that we create a process by which an employee who had 5 coverage from another source for their medical insurance be 6 allowed to waive participation in the County-paid plan. So, 7 we have put together a -- what we call policies and 8 procedures, which essentially you have at this point. What we 9 did in this policy and procedure process is create a means in 10 which an employee must provide information to Human Resources 11 Department that shows that they have insurance from a 12 reliable, financially stable source that would replace and be 13 reasonably equivalent to or equal to what the County was 14 providing for that employee currently. That way, to insure 15 that you have individuals that have coverage, because that's 16 the responsibility you're taking, is to provide health 17 insurance coverage for every employee. If they waive 18 participation, they need to provide certain documentation to 19 the Human Resources Department that then will be reviewed and 20 a waiver be granted for a one-year period. 21 Now, during that plan year -- during that policy 22 year, if that person's individual status changes and they have 23 a loss of coverage for any reason other than for the 24 nonpayment of premium for their insurance policy, then you 25 fall under what we call the Health Insurance Portability and 11-27-06 42 1 Accountability Act, which is HIPAA, which then says that 2 individual can come back on the county plan if, in fact, they 3 do meet the requirements under the HIPAA certification 4 process. There are three kinds of open-ended generic terms in 5 the -- in this agreement -- or the policies and procedures. 6 One is the identity of the individual that has the 7 responsibility for granting the waiver, and that's placed with 8 Human Resources Department for verification, and there are 9 outlined in here the items that need to be provided. The 10 second portion of that is the county Commissioners Court being 11 able to set the amount of the waiver of premium contribution. 12 Then that's paid back to the employee who waives participation 13 in the plan. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the part I'm -- you're 15 losing me a little bit. Why, if a -- if an employee takes the 16 option to leave our program and go on their own, why would we 17 pay any at that point? 18 MR. LOONEY: Well, the cost that we identified is 19 the cost that you would have been paying for -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 600? 21 MR. LOONEY: -- for the employee on the fixed basis 22 of their expenses only, and that amounts to $105 a month, is 23 what you would pay for administrative services, stop loss 24 insurance, all those other fixed costs, which you are no 25 longer obligated to pay, but you are not responsible for the 11-27-06 43 1 medical claim costs which they are encumbering under the other 2 plan. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Are you going to talk 4 about the savings account? Later on? 5 MR. LOONEY: That was the other -- other piece, was 6 the contribution would be made to the cafeteria plan itself. 7 And under the cafeteria plan, you have a process by which you 8 have a salary reduction agreement under the cafeteria plan, 9 and the individual can use those funds, that $105 a month, can 10 use those funds as allocated under the cafeteria plan. If 11 those funds are not used during the plan year, then you lose 12 those funds. There's no accumulation moving forward on any of 13 that accounting asset, so it's strictly an amount determined 14 once a year by the Commissioners Court, paid on a monthly 15 basis for that individual that waives, and then that can be 16 reset on an annual basis. The option to waive out only occurs 17 once a year. Potential for coming back on the plan is there 18 if they qualify under HIPAA, but it doesn't qualify just 19 because they decided they wanted to change their mind and 20 participate in the county plan again. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would be -- just to be 22 sure I understand, I was looking at the draft you gave us 23 versus what's in our packet. The only change I see is in Item 24 Number 5, in which you have eliminated the reference to 25 "medical flexible spending accounts." 11-27-06 44 1 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the earlier draft. 3 MR. LOONEY: It allows them the full option under 4 the plan, as opposed to being directed to that one specific 5 account. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The difference between a medical 8 spending -- a spending account would be that whatever is not 9 used by the employee that receives that allocation of fixed 10 costs would remain with the employee, whereas under a 11 cafeteria plan, whatever is not utilized of that same amount 12 by the end of the -- end of the year would go back to the 13 County as unused. 14 MR. LOONEY: Let me make sure we've got it correct. 15 The cafeteria plan is a generic term which encompasses salary 16 reduction amounts that are used to pay premium. It could 17 potentially be a child care reimbursement account, and it 18 could potentially be a medical flexible savings account, any 19 one of those three items. "Cafeteria plan" is a generic term 20 meaning all three of those potential items. The HRA, the 21 health reimbursement arrangement that you have, is cumulative. 22 Anything under the cafeteria plan is noncumulative, so that 23 any of that contribution that's made is not -- it's either use 24 it or lose it during that annual period of time. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, we've understood 11-27-06 45 1 that all along. I'm glad you finally got caught up. 2 MR. LOONEY: I'm sorry, it takes me a while to get 3 it straight. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got three observations 5 I'll make, and you can -- I'll make them all at once; then you 6 can respond to them. The policy seems a little bit benevolent 7 to me, and the procedures seem to be a little bureaucratic. 8 Why not let an employee opt out for any reason? Why does an 9 employee have to prove that he has other insurance to be able 10 to opt out? The second one is sort of like the first one. 11 Why offer the cafeteria plan to those who opt out? Why not 12 just let them opt out altogether? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good questions. 14 MR. LOONEY: Well, first of all, why can't an 15 employee just waive out of the plan? There's a couple 16 reasons. One is that the assumption is that the County has 17 accepted responsibility of providing a health insurance plan 18 for all employees, the basic assumption. The other part of 19 that is that for the health insurance plan to function 20 properly, the number of employees in the plan, the number of 21 participants in the plan on a group basis when you're 22 self-insured, if you allow for total waivers out of the plan, 23 you get into a downward spiraling effect in the funding 24 process, and you end up in potentially a negative funding 25 process. The -- I think the second -- what was the second 11-27-06 46 1 question? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bureaucratic. 3 MR. LOONEY: Oh, bureaucratic. Very bureaucratic, 4 there's no question about it. Because we want very much to 5 develop a policy and procedure that we can then take to our 6 providers and say, okay, this is not an open-ended risk. This 7 is -- this is the way that we have assumed the risk to occur. 8 That way we sell that back to our stop loss carriers and to 9 our reinsurance people, that it is not an open-ended process 10 for them for risk reward circumstances. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good answers. Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good answer. Good question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think his third question related 14 to, why make any contribution to the employee? 15 MR. LOONEY: Oh, to the cafeteria plan? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 MR. LOONEY: The cafeteria plan is a situation where 18 there is no cumulation of the contribution by the employee. 19 They have to use it during that time frame. And that amount 20 of -- of premium or that amount of reimbursement or whatever 21 you want to call it can change each year, and needs to be set 22 by the Court each year. So that it can fluctuate; it's not a 23 guaranteed number moving forward. It's based on the cost 24 that's identified in the plan for that particular waiver 25 option. 11-27-06 47 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments 2 concerning the presentation? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we need to adopt this as 4 a policy? Is that the issue of the day? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's certainly before us at 6 this point in time. If we're going to have that in place for 7 '07, it certainly needs to be done today, I would think. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move adoption of the 9 Kerr County policies and procedures as presented by 10 Mr. Looney, the revised document presented today. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 13 the latest draft of policies and procedures concerning opting 14 out of the -- by employees of the county health benefits 15 program, as presented. Any question or further discussion on 16 the motion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couple questions. Do we have 18 -- have we had requests from employees to put this thing in 19 place so that -- they wanted to opt out of our program? 20 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what's created 22 this -- 23 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, number two, I'd have to 25 -- I'd have to look at it a little closer, but number two is, 11-27-06 48 1 does this affect the budget in some way? 2 MR. LOONEY: No. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At all? 4 MR. LOONEY: No, because we've -- actually, we've 5 reduced it to its basic fixed cost, which was in the budget. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 MR. LOONEY: And the people that have asked for the 8 waivers are people such as retired teachers; the Sheriff hires 9 individuals that have also come out of the military in some 10 cases with -- they have military coverage. There's some of 11 those that have insurance that's provided to them at either no 12 cost or minimal cost, and in some cases, because they're an 13 employee, they become primary under our plan, whereas it would 14 be more beneficial to them to be secondary, or be primary 15 under the plan that they have from the retiree standpoint. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. So the Sheriff is 17 driving the thing? Is that -- 18 MR. LOONEY: Yeah, it's always his fault. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of my -- I'll be -- I've 20 got a lot of retired D.P.S. people, military and teachers, and 21 there's a lot of them that don't want to have part of this 22 plan. 23 MR. LOONEY: Now, one thing that it does not affect; 24 they could -- the policy and procedures says specifically that 25 it affects the medical portion of the plan. The group term 11-27-06 49 1 life insurance plan -- the group term life insurance portion 2 of it still remains in effect. They do not waive out of that. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So they still get that? 4 MR. LOONEY: They still receive that. That's only 5 that group medical portion of it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When we started this entire 7 program three years ago now -- is it three? -- there was a lot 8 of gnashing of teeth and -- and threats of committing suicide 9 over this thing and all that, and I think we've turned the 10 corner. I think we're in -- we've hung in there, and we're -- 11 we have a good program here. And I think that the number-one 12 issue is that we're doing everything we can to meet the needs 13 of the employees, and that's -- that's what we do, and that's 14 the important part of it. I appreciate you two guys. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good assessment of 16 it. We have turned the corner. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you, sir. 18 Channel 5. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks. 20 MR. LOONEY: Thank you very much. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment on the 22 -- on the motion? Ms. Hyde? 23 MS. HYDE: There's more -- there's a little bit more 24 to that. We also went ahead and did some investigation and 25 some cost analysis for the extra plans that employees can get, 11-27-06 50 1 and Mr. Wallace has given us some very good pricing that we're 2 going to allow our employees to choose from as well for an 3 open enrollment. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have copies of that? 5 MS. HYDE: You can have copies of that, yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That will be voluntary coverage? 7 MS. HYDE: This is voluntary coverage, that's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Strictly voluntary on that, right? 9 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Kerr County is not underwriting or 11 participating in in any manner? Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Mr. Wallace. 13 MR. WALLACE: You're welcome. Do you y'all want to 14 talk about this? Or -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. This is great, though. 16 MR. WALLACE: Do you want me to discuss it? 17 MS. HYDE: It's -- it's extremely good insurance and 18 additional insurance for the employees. If you look under Met 19 Life especially, it's fairly inexpensive during the highest 20 percentile. Not to be confused, as Mr. Looney reminded me 21 this morning, with, you know, percentage effective. This is 22 just telling us where they stand in the percentile for this. 23 The other thing that we can also look at is down on the 24 bottom, our employees -- all employees, whether they pay for 25 Met Life or not, can use the Met Life discounts for vision 11-27-06 51 1 free of charge. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 3 MS. HYDE: All County employees. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these -- are these 5 dental and vision available to all employees for an extra 6 premium? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 8 MR. WALLACE: Yes. 9 MS. HYDE: And the vision for Met Life is free; it's 10 just a discount plan. The employees don't have to pay for 11 that at all. 12 MR. WALLACE: You have a $60 allowance in your 13 health plan for an eye exam. I don't know if you remembered 14 that or not. So you really don't need eye exams covered under 15 a vision plan, since you already have that. This would cover 16 your hardware, your glasses. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 18 MR. WALLACE: I can give you more detail on that, 19 too. I'll hand that out to you before I leave. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 21 MR. WALLACE: And it just gives you some ideas on 22 that. The -- one thing about -- if you look here, I need to 23 point out to you that that's very important under the Met 24 Life. If you'll look under the waiting period, you'll see 25 0-12 or a 0-3-12 or so on. "Zero" means on your Type 1 11-27-06 52 1 category of -- of, like, cleanings, if you have no deductible. 2 Type -- Type 2, you'd have a three-month waiting period, and 3 Type 3, you'd have a 12-month waiting period. You see all 4 those? And you look under Met Life, and there are no waiting 5 periods for any types. So, if you sign up for the dental 6 effective January 1, January the 2nd, if your dentist's office 7 is open, you can go get your major dental work done. No 8 waiting periods. There's two different plans. My -- I want 9 some guidance from y'all on whether to offer one with ortho or 10 one without orthodontia. Naturally, it's a little bit higher 11 for the orthodontia. The employee-only cost is about the 12 same. I don't know why it's a penny difference. But so far 13 as those that qualify for ortho, the premium would be higher 14 for those that want to cover children or that want to cover 15 the whole family. The price would be higher. It's, like, $75 16 for the whole family without orthodontia, and with orthodontia 17 it's, like, $81. Let me hand that out right quick. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be something that each 19 particular employee could -- could elect? Or -- 20 MR. WALLACE: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is it required that we make an 22 election here to offer one? 23 MR. WALLACE: I personally think offering the ortho 24 is -- you know, you might as well. If they want it, they can 25 take it, or not. If you look there on that first page, you'll 11-27-06 53 1 see that is without orthodontia; you'll see that, and if you 2 turn over about two pages, you'll see the costs with 3 orthodontia. For an employee and children without it, it's 4 51.91, and with it it's 58.02. And the family, 75.33 or 5 81.42. Anybody have any objections to offering it with 6 orthodontia? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you're willing to offer those 8 options, if I understand you correctly, we have the ability to 9 limit what you offer, but we can permit you to offer the whole 10 gamut. 11 MR. WALLACE: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 13 MR. WALLACE: We -- we can't offer it -- we can't 14 offer it to you without orthodontia and to you with 15 orthodontia. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 17 MR. WALLACE: Either has to be one way or the other. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the maximum range of 19 coverages available to allow each employee or their dependents 20 to select is certainly what's in the best interests of our 21 employees. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 23 MR. WALLACE: And then the last two pages over 24 there, you'll see the vision allowances, for the vision 25 coverage. 11-27-06 54 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Lasik surgery has become 2 a part of our program for -- the option to -- that's 3 fantastic. 4 MR. EMERSON: Can I ask a quick question? 5 MR. WALLACE: Sure. 6 MR. EMERSON: Is the money that was discussed 7 earlier, the flexible medical spending account, eligible to be 8 used on this? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it could be. 10 MR. EMERSON: Okay. I was just trying to figure out 11 how we squeezed into this agenda item, but now I understand. 12 Thank you. 13 MS. HYDE: I tried to cover it correctly, -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's how you get there. 15 MS. HYDE: -- Mr. Emerson. 16 MR. WALLACE: Your $105 can be used to buy this 17 plan. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That annual max, is that -- 19 what is that? Out-of-pocket or what? 20 MR. WALLACE: That's the annual max that Met Life 21 will pay towards your dental care. You can raise that to 22 1,200 and 1,500, 2,000, but the rates are going to go up. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, the most they're going to 24 pay for any one employee per year is going to be $1,000? 25 MR. WALLACE: Well, one participant, let's put it 11-27-06 55 1 that way, whether it's a child -- and they pay up to $1,000 2 max on ortho. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This talks about the monthly 4 premium for the employee. What is the monthly premium for an 5 employee's dependent? Same? 6 MR. WALLACE: For an employee's dependent? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 MR. WALLACE: Well, the rates are -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm talking about this first 10 sheet. 11 MR. WALLACE: Oh. I just put the employee rates on 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. WALLACE: That's just to show you what it would 15 cost just for the employees. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The answer's on this sheet; 17 I see it. 18 MR. WALLACE: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. I see it. 20 MR. WALLACE: That was just a brief outline to show 21 you the different carriers and the different costs. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. 23 MR. WALLACE: So you can compare the costs there. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the cost to Kerr County 25 is zero. 11-27-06 56 1 MR. WALLACE: Payroll deduction. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a win-win situation. 3 MR. WALLACE: If they don't have the $105. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have anything else on this 5 agenda item, Ms. Hyde? 6 MS. HYDE: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments with 8 regard to the motion that's pending with respect to the opting 9 out policy? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I guess now 15 it's appropriate to consider the -- the County contribution to 16 the cafeteria plan for the calendar year '07 under those 17 procedures. The procedures which were presented did not have 18 a fixed amount, but rather prescribed that that's done on an 19 annual basis by the Commissioners Court. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You -- you're saying somebody 22 on this -- at this table make a motion to approve this? Is 23 that what you're saying? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've approved the policy. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 11-27-06 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But the policy provides that the 2 Court should, on an annual basis, determine the -- the amount 3 to be contributed to the opting out employee's cafeteria plan 4 that we heard in connection with the presentation. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is today the proper time to 6 do that? Or is January the proper time to do that? 7 MR. LOONEY: No, today. 8 MS. HYDE: Today. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to do it today, because 10 otherwise, there's some preliminary things that have to be 11 done in connection with the opting out. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to get mad. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Just giving you my opinion. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So tell us again what the 15 amount is. Somebody? 16 MS. HYDE: 105. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 18 MS. HYDE: $105. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per employee? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Per month, per employee. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 105 per month. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 25 approval of the county contribution to the opted out 11-27-06 58 1 employees' cafeteria plan for 2007 to be the amount of $105 2 per month. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We're about 8 at our mid-morning break period. Why don't we take about a 9 15-minute recess and come back and resume business. 10 (Recess taken from 10:23 a.m. to new 10:40 A.M.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 13 might. We were in recess, our mid-morning break. That brings 14 us to Item 7; receipt of responses from County Treasurer with 15 respect to various I.R.S. issues as set forth in memos from 16 County Judge to County Treasurer dated September 18, 2006, 17 October 27, 2006, and November 2, 2006, and appropriate action 18 concerning such responses. I put this on the agenda because I 19 had previously forwarded memorandums to the County Treasurer 20 in connection with some I.R.S. difficulties that I know all 21 the members of the Court are aware of, and I had received 22 notice from the I.R.S. of certain documents, and I inquired of 23 the County Treasurer in those various memos for certain 24 answers to certain questions. And the -- I think most of 25 those, if not all of those, were copied to the Commissioners 11-27-06 59 1 Court at or about the time that -- that they were made. I 2 have not received any responses to those inquiries. The first 3 one, of course, is more than 60 days old. The other one -- 4 next one is 30 days old, and the other one is slightly less 5 than that. The answers, of course, I wanted to provide to the 6 Court for the benefit of their knowledge and guidance in 7 connection with future matters. Ms. Nemec, do you have 8 answers to these items? 9 MS. NEMEC: Of course, all those issues I believe 10 that y'all are aware of that have been taken care of. The 11 first memo that I received was September the 18th, at which 12 time I sent a memo to the Judge explaining that during this 13 time, I was moving my office. I also did not have a clerk at 14 this time. I -- my assistant had quit, and I was in the 15 process of moving my office, doing payroll, closing the end of 16 the month, and closing the end of the year. And I explained 17 that to the Judge and told him that as soon as I would move 18 and get settled in, that I would provide him that information. 19 And the next memo was on October the 27th, and he sent me 20 another memo stating that now that I had moved and was settled 21 in, that he was wanting that information. How he knew that I 22 was settled in at that time, I don't know, but that's the memo 23 that I received from him. 24 Five days later, he sent me another memo. And then 25 on November the 21st, he -- no, November the 16th, he sent me 11-27-06 60 1 a memo. I got back on the 21st, stating that I had received 2 his memo at that time, and explained to him that I was at a 3 conference and I did not receive the memo until November the 4 21st, because I had been gone during the -- November the 15th 5 through the 17th at a conference. Therefore, that I did not 6 receive his memo till November 21st at 1 o'clock. And I 7 responded at 1:15 to his memo, stating that I did not receive 8 his memo until then. Around 3 o'clock November the 21st, he 9 stated that because I did not respond to his memo by November 10 the 21st at 12 o'clock, that he put it on the agenda, and at 11 that time, I explained to him that I would have a response to 12 him by Tuesday, which is tomorrow. And he stated that because 13 I had not responded to him by noon, that he had put it on the 14 agenda, and requested that I be here to respond to those 15 questions. And, like I said, all this has been taken care of, 16 and especially the number -- number two item. I have already 17 discussed this with you all. You know that it has been taken 18 care of. 19 The Judge gets -- I talked to I.R.S.; he gets copies 20 of everything that I send to I.R.S. per his request in talking 21 to the I.R.S. They get sent to his address at his law office. 22 Anything that I send to I.R.S., anything that I.R.S. sends to 23 me, because he's asked them to do that, so he is aware of 24 anything that -- any correspondence between me and the I.R.S. 25 So, he knows everything that goes on. Again, this is just to 11-27-06 61 1 harass me. I am sick and tired of the harassment that he 2 is -- that's been going on between him for the past years, and 3 I'm -- I'm very tired of it. I have responded to him that he 4 would receive, and that you would all receive this information 5 by tomorrow, and I have no further comments on this or any 6 other matter on the agenda today. Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't have any responses to the 8 items as set forth in the memos, Ms. Nemec? 9 MS. NEMEC: As I stated, you will receive them 10 tomorrow. Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me clear up one thing, if I 12 might. She's correct that I do get, as this Court authorized 13 me to get, communications from the Internal Revenue Service on 14 matters that are forwarded to Kerr County from the I.R.S. Why 15 they elected to send them down to 611 Sidney Baker is beyond 16 me. The matter that we turned in for -- for me to have access 17 to those items, as the Auditor knows, clearly indicates this 18 address, but that's where they're sending them. I do not get 19 copies of anything that the Treasurer forwards to I.R.S., 20 contrary to her assertion. I don't know whether I.R.S. feels 21 no obligation to do that, but it's not covered by what they 22 receive. I don't know, but I don't get that. I -- I want 23 answers to my questions. I think the public and this Court is 24 entitled to know the answers to the questions. They were very 25 simple. They were very direct. I've not heard any question 11-27-06 62 1 raised about the ability to understand or not understand the 2 questions. I've just gotten stonewalled. The last time I 3 tried to get information out of the Treasurer, it took me over 4 a year. I finally noted that I filed an Open Records request, 5 somewhat at the -- I'll call it a facetious suggestion, for 6 lack of a better term, by Commissioner 4, that it's unusual 7 that the public can get information out of the Treasurer's 8 office and I can't. And so I filed that Open Records request, 9 and was finally given access to some of the records. I would 10 note that some of the early tax levies, for some reason, were 11 not present in those files. I don't know why they weren't, 12 but they weren't. But it appears that we're not going to get 13 answers to those questions today. Yes, sir? Do you have -- 14 you had -- you had a comment you wanted to make? 15 MR. TRIGO: I have a question for you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come to the microphone. 17 MR. TRIGO: I just have one question for you. Do 18 you not have an office here? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name -- 20 MR. TRIGO: My name is Steve Trigo. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. TRIGO: You just stated that I.R.S. is sending 23 all your -- whatever you're requesting to your office -- 24 personal office. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11-27-06 63 1 MR. TRIGO: Do you not have an office here in this 2 building? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course I do, Mr. Trigo. 4 MR. TRIGO: Why haven't you corrected that with the 5 I.R.S.? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have suggested that to the Auditor, 7 and I don't know what he's done, because he's the one that 8 forwarded that. I'll let him answer that question. 9 MR. TRIGO: Okay. I need an answer. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I have not talked to the I.R.S. 11 about it. 12 MR. TRIGO: Why not? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you and I had a discussion that 14 we need to change -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we did. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- where they're sending those to me 17 in care of this address at 700 Main? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a comment or two, 21 Judge. I don't -- I don't think we want to get caught up in a 22 back-and-forth debate about memorandums and who sent what to 23 whom and when we got a response. There are some legitimate 24 questions here that need to be responded to, and there are 25 some things that are confusing that need to be responded to. 11-27-06 64 1 And I hope that your response, Ms. Nemec, will provide some 2 enlightenment in terms of some of the issues that are conveyed 3 to us, some of the points or -- that are made in these I.R.S. 4 documents. For example, a net adjustment credit of 7,279. 5 How did that come about, and why did it create an overpayment? 6 And the most recent document that I see here -- where is 7 it? -- dated October 30, 2006, why are we receiving a notice 8 from the Internal Revenue Service saying we changed your tax 9 return because we found a calculation error? What does that 10 mean? What was the error? Is the error in favor of Uncle 11 Sam, or is the error in favor of Kerr County? Will there be a 12 penalty assessed because they found an error, or not? I hope 13 your memorandum clarifies some of these issues that would 14 leave this Commissioner in the dark. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, yeah. I -- 17 personally, I think that we should -- because of the 18 importance of this issue, I think that we should recess this 19 Commissioners Court and come back in tomorrow and let the 20 presentation be made in front of the full Court at that time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly one alternative, one 22 option. Appreciate that suggestion. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd rather not get a memo in 24 my box. I'd rather have dialogue and conversation. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner, with regard to 11-27-06 65 1 the October 30, 2006 notification, that, of course, indicates 2 that the I.R.S. was proposing a deposit penalty on Kerr 3 County, and it requests that the enclosed Schedule B be 4 completed and returned, which indicates to me that a 5 Schedule B was either not completed or was completed 6 incorrectly, or -- I'm not sure. It indicates there was 7 something wrong with the Schedule B. It either wasn't there 8 or it was defective in some manner. I'm not -- that, 9 obviously, is another question or concern. Did that get done? 10 And if so, when? Any other questions or comments? 11 Let's move on to Item 8, if we might. Consider, 12 discuss, and take appropriate action to set amount of Kerr 13 County Treasurer's official bond effective January 1, 2007, in 14 accordance with provisions of Section 83.002 of the Texas 15 Local Government Code. As indicated in the backup, the last 16 Legislature authorized the -- a new methodology for 17 establishing the amount of the Treasurer's bond in an amount 18 not to exceed one-half of 1 percent of the largest amount 19 budgeted for general county maintenance and operations for any 20 fiscal year of the county, beginning during the term of office 21 preceding the term for which the bond to be given, with a -- 22 with caps at 5,000 on the low end and 500,000 on the high end. 23 In looking at the previous budget summaries that 24 were provided, I note that the '05-'06, which, of course, 25 would be the previous term in this case -- I'm not sure 11-27-06 66 1 whether that's limited only to the general fund, or to a 2 number of other items; fire protection, public library, parks, 3 indigent health, and juvenile facility, which would be part of 4 general operation also, whether it's limited to that. If 5 that's the case, why, it -- if it's limited only to the 6 general fund, one-half of 1 percent is something in excess of 7 $65,000, and if the others are included, it is just short of 8 $80,000. I calculate $79,913.22. But the section does 9 provide that we -- by virtue of the new legislation that was 10 done last session, that this Court set the amount of the bond 11 for the coming fiscal year. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the amount of the 13 bond that currently exists? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: $15,000. And that is a four-year 15 bond. That is in place and will expire December 31, 2006. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that amount standard for 17 all county-wide elected officials? I know it's not standard 18 for Commissioners. Ours is less. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it is not. The -- we just 20 recently received from Texas Association of Counties the -- 21 the various oath and bond requirements for specific County 22 officers, and some of them are -- they're all set out, and 23 most of them are for specific dollar amounts. The Treasurer 24 is -- is different. The Tax Assessor is different. The -- I 25 believe the District Clerk, as a fee officer, is a little bit 11-27-06 67 1 different, if I'm not mistaken. County Clerk, I believe, as a 2 fee officer, is -- it has a parameter on -- a percentage 3 amount it deals with. Most of those deal with 20 -- a 4 20 percent of an annual fee collection basis. Most -- most of 5 the others are set on specific dollar amounts. But I've got 6 the publication, if anybody wishes to take a look at it. The 7 -- the ones for the Treasurer and the -- or, excuse me, the 8 District Clerk and County Clerk and so forth, I think are 9 specific enough that -- that require them just to comply with 10 the statutory provisions. That's my understanding. The 11 County Attorney may have a different one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, currently, we're -- the 13 bond is 15,000, and some would think that it should be 65,000? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 65 to near 80, in that range, yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you suggest 79? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no. I said that if you 17 include -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you do include. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as part of the general fund 20 expenditures. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's part of the -- that's part of 23 the operations, general county maintenance and operations for 24 a fiscal year. Of course, we would exclude any -- any 25 long-term indebtedness, C.O.'s or bonds, things of that 11-27-06 68 1 nature, the jail bonds that are outstanding. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Tommy, the fire safety, 3 or whatever those things are, are included in the M & O? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it would be -- so your 6 assessment, then, is correct. According to that, it should be 7 79-something. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, it -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, up to that amount. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- doesn't say should be. 11 That's the cap. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Up to that amount. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My question I have is, the 14 County pays for a bond for officials. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the larger the amount 17 of bond, the more it costs to get a bond. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it prudent and needed 20 that we incur additional cost for bonds, above the bond -- 21 $15,000 bond we're already paying for? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would kind of be my 23 question. What would be the need to -- to do that? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because the law says so. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I know we have to 11-27-06 69 1 follow the law. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a cap, Commissioner. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand cap. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, anywhere between 15 and 5 80 is my understanding. Correct? Is that permissible? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, we could go as low as 7 5,000, under the statute. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From 5 to 500. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Five to 500. But it cannot exceed 10 one-half of 1 percent of the -- of the general maintenance and 11 operation expenditures during a fiscal year during the 12 preceding term of office, which gets it to just under 80,000. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have a 14 recommendation? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, based upon what I've seen in 16 this last year, a $15,000 bond for a four-year term would not 17 seem to me to be appropriate. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you think is 19 appropriate? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 65 to 75. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does the County 22 Attorney -- does he have a thought on this at all? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: He had earlier done some research 24 about the new provision at my request, and I don't know that 25 he -- he just responded by saying, "Here's the procedures and 11-27-06 70 1 parameters for the bond." 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in this documentation 3 that was provided, the backup on Local Government Code, under 4 83.002, Subparagraph B, in my copy it's been underlined that 5 the Commissioners Court may at any time require the Treasurer 6 to obtain a new or additional bond if the Court considers 7 existing bond insufficient or doubtful. Have we arrived at 8 that point? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the agenda item provides for -- 10 for the new term beginning January 1, '07, and the Court needs 11 to set the bond for that in some amount at some time prior to 12 the beginning of that term. The agenda item that I've placed 13 is not for the purpose of -- for the Court to differentially 14 make a finding that the coverage under the existing bond is 15 insufficient or doubtful, and to raise it immediately. This 16 is something the Court's going to have to do prior to 17 January 1, anyway. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're -- you're 20 basing -- you're basing your recommendation to increase the 21 bond by a considerable amount -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- on the actions of the -- 24 of the Treasurer in the past? These issues that we just 25 talked about, about the -- 11-27-06 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Among others, yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I.R.S. And tell me and 3 the general public, what -- what would happen -- I mean, give 4 me a scenario that would get us caught in too low of a bond. 5 Is -- what is the bond for? Is it -- would it be for -- if I 6 were -- if I were the County Auditor and I had a low bond of 7 15,000 -- a $15,000 bond, and I took off with all the county 8 money, is that something that would -- is that one of the 9 reasons that you'd want to have a higher bond, is to cover -- 10 cover that? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, that would be one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A theft issue would be one -- 13 one issue, or a reason. What -- what else? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we had a nonperformance or a 15 late performance issue, if you'll recall, that I came to the 16 Court with with regard to an item that I was seeking the 17 Court's permission to file a claim on the Treasurer's bond, 18 and that was averted by virtue of the fact that the Treasurer 19 stepped up and covered that with personal funds. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: As I'm sure you can recall, -- kind 22 of hard to forget -- there's a $12,000 penalty hanging out 23 there somewhere that we still don't know the answer to. 24 MR. TRIGO: That's unalleged. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That issue is -- to my knowledge, is 11-27-06 72 1 as yet unresolved, and that may be the result of another claim 2 potentially. The -- if you coupled that amount with the -- 3 with the prior amount, you can see that those two items alone 4 would have -- would have pretty well capped out the $15,000 5 bond that -- that was in place. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't the claim against the 7 bond somewhat similar to a claim against any other insurance? 8 In that these issues are outstanding right now. Hopefully 9 they'll be resolved favorably to Kerr County. They're 10 outstanding, but if a claim were lodged against a future bond 11 of a larger amount, would those claims be allowed? 'Cause 12 they're already outstanding. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No. It -- the bond that's in 14 place at the time of the -- the act, commission or omission, 15 is going to be the bond that determines whether or not there's 16 coverage. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, on an ongoing basis, I don't 19 know what's going to happen. I do know that that there are 20 substantial sums of money that -- that moves through the -- 21 the Treasurer's office. There -- there are substantial 22 reporting requirements that will continue to be handled by the 23 Treasurer's office. You know, the only -- the only cost 24 benefit analysis that I see you got to do is -- has to do with 25 the point that Commissioner Nicholson raised. Certainly, a 11-27-06 73 1 higher bond will cost more premium, but I guess it's one of 2 those things, you pay your money and you take your choice. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, your -- your thinking 4 is that these issues hopefully that will be taken care of 5 tomorrow -- be addressed tomorrow, and hopefully be taken care 6 of, you don't -- you see a -- first of all, your whole motive 7 here is to protect the County. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: County and the taxpayers of this 9 county, certainly. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what I meant. 11 The taxpayers of the county, yeah. That's your utmost motive. 12 But you don't -- you think that there's a possibility that 13 this doesn't end tomorrow; that there's a possibility that it 14 may continue through next year, and -- or -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, this bond, if approved in 16 whatever amount, will become effective for any occurrences 17 that take place on or after January 1, 2007. This bond will 18 not be applicable to anything that occurs prior to the 19 effective date of the bond. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, my final 21 question is, how much does the damn thing cost? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That I can't tell you. We'd have to 23 -- we'd have to get the input from those that are in the 24 business of -- of writing those bonds. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got one other 11-27-06 74 1 question. I'm bonded; we all are. I don't know for how much 2 or how much it costs. Does the fact that I'm bonded offer any 3 protection to me? Does it limit any personal liability that I 4 have for errors or omissions or acts that I might commit that 5 would cost the County money? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: To the extent your bonding company 7 has to respond on your bond, I think, under the terms of most 8 suretyship arrangements, they would have recourse against you 9 individually. That's the normal law of suretyship. 10 Mr. Auditor? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: You might talk to somebody about the 12 cost. If you could get the District Clerk to tell us how much 13 her bond is, I don't -- I don't recall. I'm not -- hers is 14 about 250,000, I think. 15 MS. UECKER: 250,000, my bond, and it costs about 16 $500 a year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: How much is yours, Linda? 18 MS. UECKER: 250,000. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: The -- the basis for establishing a 20 bond amount for the two clerks through Texas Association of 21 Counties is that they -- they want an amount close to the 22 amount that each office would have on hand at any given time, 23 have within their office. To me, that's a rule of thumb as to 24 how to establish the amount. There's probably some exclusions 25 to that. 11-27-06 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: On the District Clerk, for example, 2 the bond to be approved by the Commissioners Court shall be an 3 amount of not less than 20 percent of the maximum amount of 4 fees collected in any year during the term of office 5 immediately preceding the term of office for which the bond is 6 given, with a -- with a low end of 5,000, upper end of 7 100,000. Now, there's some insurance requirements that come 8 in on top of that, dealing with some other -- other situations 9 there, and that may be the reason that you've got a total -- 10 MS. UECKER: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of 250,000 coverage in place. 12 That may not be all the bond coverage. 13 MS. UECKER: It is. It's the maximum of a hundred 14 and -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- I mean, that's inexpensive 16 coverage, in my mind. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And yours was five? 18 MS. UECKER: I think it's between five -- maybe it's 19 as high as 600, but I don't think so. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. UECKER: Five-something. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I go back over one 23 thing again here? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says not to exceed 11-27-06 76 1 one-half of 1 percent of the largest amount budgeted for 2 general county maintenance and operation for any fiscal year, 3 and there's some handwritten notes here at the bottom, and I'm 4 assuming that that would be $65,000. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That's the general fund only. 6 The 13 million, when you add these other categories that are 7 actually part of general fund maintenance and operation 8 expenditures, the total amount is just under 16 million, which 9 brings it down to that figure just under 80,000. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the 79,913.22. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, not to exceed that 13 number. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be the cap. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we need to hit somewhere 18 between the 15 -- maybe. Currently at 15, and the cap is 79. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the way I calculate it, yes, 20 sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, somebody -- somebody 22 throw out a number that is -- what we should -- a 23 recommendation. What should we do? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Judge wants to go up to 25 the limit of the cap. 11-27-06 77 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I said 65 to 75. That wouldn't be 2 the cap, but it would certainly put it up there in the range 3 of what the statute contemplates. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, 65 is a nice number. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we're going to 6 recess this -- if there's a possibility of recessing this 7 meeting to learn, in essence, of the report from the 8 Treasurer, why can't we, in the interim, find out what the 9 cost is between now and then, and take up both issues 10 tomorrow? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's certainly a viable option. 13 Good. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody can give us a 15 quote. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Good thought. 17 MS. UECKER: Mine is -- if you're interested, mine's 18 through First Insurance. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yours is what? 20 MS. UECKER: First Insurance. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know what the amount 22 is, the dollar amount? The cost? 23 MS. UECKER: It's between 500 and 600 a year. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 100,000, probably. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, do we ask the question, 11-27-06 78 1 we want a bond for 65,000? Do we ask the question, do we want 2 a bond for 79,000? I mean, what -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we can get some benchmark 4 figures and then the Court can make a decision, sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And go from there, all right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got anything further to offer 7 on that item? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, are we going to recess? 9 Is that going to be the -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's the Court's desire, we can 11 sure do that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be wise, 13 personally. Just as my personal thinking. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, looks like we're going to play 16 tomorrow. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just need to set the time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So we'll defer on those items, okay. 20 We'll figure out the time later. Let's move, then, if there's 21 nothing further on that one, to Item 9; consider, discuss, and 22 take appropriate action to set up Texas Automated Vehicle 23 Inspection System. Mr. Odom. 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, thank you. I'd just like to 25 tell the Court, Texas A & M, 12; Texas, 7. (Laughter.) 11-27-06 79 1 Nothing personal. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The guy you want to talk to 3 is missing. 4 MR. ODOM: This year -- I'm on the Judge's bad side. 5 I'd better get another -- my bond's only for a very small 6 amount. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that why Lee Voelkel's 8 been sitting here all morning? 9 MR. ODOM: That's it. He had to hear that. 10 MR. VOELKEL: I was waiting for that. 11 MR. ODOM: He even had his hat this morning. This 12 year, the Texas Department of Public Safety is implementing a 13 mandatory automatic system for our inspection station. We 14 have one in our shop which facilitates having our equipment 15 done, and to save some money, but they're implementing this as 16 mandatory and they're charging an extra fee for this. The 17 equipment's being furnished free and the training is free, but 18 there's a fee, and associated with that, they need an 19 automated draft authority. So, we're asking the Court at this 20 time to give the County Auditor permission to set up an 21 automatic draft to comply with the new state law. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 25 of the agenda item, and to approve a draft on the County as 11-27-06 80 1 indicated. Any question or discussion on the motion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. How does this 3 benefit the County? 4 MR. ODOM: I don't think that it -- it benefits the 5 State of Texas, and I guess it -- what they're trying to do is 6 to -- my understanding is, reading the whole synopsis of 7 everything, that they're probably cutting manpower; they're 8 making it a little bit less people-oriented, where the 9 individual from D.P.S. has to come to our office and check 10 everything and do the -- the count and inventory on our 11 stickers and all like that. This way it's automatically done. 12 We have a phone line; it's plugged in, and they supposedly 13 keep up with it under the system, and they suppose that it 14 will save them money over the long-term, reduce manpower 15 statewide. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We inspect -- we just inspect 17 our own vehicles? I don't -- you're not inspecting mine, are 18 you? 19 MR. ODOM: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You inspect your own vehicles 21 only? 22 MR. ODOM: That's correct, only the county vehicles. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how long have we been 24 doing that? Forever. 25 MR. ODOM: For a very -- for a very long time. I 11-27-06 81 1 don't know. I don't recall; 10 years or more. Basically, 2 what we tried to do was go to -- we had to go outside vendors. 3 And to get that, they may or may not get us in. Plus we're 4 paying a little bit of profit, so we wanted control of it, 5 and -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, I understand. I 7 understand. So, suddenly, we're -- we're going to start 8 sending the $2.25 to the State for every vehicle. 9 MR. ODOM: Plus the cost of the inspection sticker. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then -- and I 11 understand that. But I happen to kind of understand the 12 mind-set up in Austin. I wonder what's next. It's 2.25 this 13 year. What's it going to be next year and the year after for 14 us? I know you're not -- 15 MR. ODOM: I haven't -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't know the answer to 17 that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We may have an understanding 19 about May of this coming year. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I will almost guarantee 21 you that that number is going -- not going to remain very 22 long. 23 MR. ODOM: Well, you know, that's -- setting us up 24 is a little bit facetious anyway on a yearly basis. Taxation 25 without representation, if you want to ask me, but that's just 11-27-06 82 1 my opinion. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That sounds like a good 3 bumper sticker to me. 4 MR. ODOM: And, you know, I think that could be 5 covered in the gas -- the price of gasoline. So, like 6 insurance, too. There's a lot of different ways to skin a 7 cat. But I think it could be a penny or something a gallon, 8 or half a cent, something like that, and you wouldn't have to 9 worry about this. People that drive pay for it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you do the Sheriff's 11 vehicles, or just Road and Bridge? Do you do it? 12 MR. ODOM: I haven't, no. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we do all county 14 vehicles through your shop? 15 MR. ODOM: Well, I guess we could. I don't know. 16 You'd have to ask the Sheriff's Department about that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think his are exempt. 18 MR. ODOM: I don't know if they have one. I don't 19 know. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they exempt from state 21 inspection? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: They're certainly exempt from 23 selectively enforcing that requirement, if they so choose, on 24 each other. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we have -- 11-27-06 83 1 MR. ODOM: I don't have an answer for you, sir, 2 other than that we just take care of ours. And if it was in 3 there, I think we probably take care of Animal Control. I'm 4 just not for sure. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health has 6 vehicles also. 7 MR. ODOM: Pardon? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health, 9 likewise, has vehicles. 10 MR. ODOM: May have, and they probably come in. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a question. If we're 12 going to do it, why not do it for all of them? 13 MR. ODOM: Road and Bridge takes care of Road and 14 Bridge. If it's outside that, we -- you know, we're not 15 opposed to them just coming in, working it out. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Trying desperately to be 17 other than that maroon island unto yourself. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 19 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 25 Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 11-27-06 84 1 concept of revision of plat for Lot 1, Heartland Acres, as set 2 forth in Volume 7, Page 322, Plat Records, to set a public 3 hearing for same, and located in Precinct 2. Just need a 4 public hearing on that? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I'm sorry, I had the wrong 6 page. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move a public hearing for 8 January 7, 2007, at 10:20 a.m. 9 MR. ODOM: 8th, right? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: January 8. 12 MR. ODOM: At 10:20. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for a 14 public hearing on the agenda item for January 8, 2007, for 15 10:20 a.m. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 16 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 21 to Item 11; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 22 consider division of property and septic for Lot 248A, B & R 23 Ranches, and located in Precinct 2. 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have received a letter from 25 Environmental Health concerning an illegal division of 11-27-06 85 1 property when the owner applied for a septic permit. Mr. Owen 2 purchased 2 acres of a 15.11 lot in December of -- 17th, 2001. 3 Survey was done by Guadalupe Survey, and the title was done 4 through Kerr County Abstract. Mr. Owen recently got a permit 5 through Headwaters and had a well drilled, because their 6 grandfather date is June 10, 2002 from Headwaters. Our 7 question is, is this something we want to pursue for platting, 8 to replat this, if water is already available and the septic 9 can meet the requirements? If Miguel does that, would this 10 individual -- and if we are to pursue it, are we to go ask the 11 seller to do this, the responsible party? Or the owner -- the 12 young man that bought that? To me, it's already done, so the 13 question is, what's the direction the Court wants Road and 14 Bridge to go? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's illegal? 16 MR. ODOM: December the 11th, 2000, is the 17 grandfather date as far as subdivisions. That's the question, 18 as far as we're concerned, of not having something platted. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whose responsibility is it 20 to plat? The seller, right? 21 MR. EMERSON: Subdivider. 22 MR. ODOM: The subdivider. But under this case, 23 it's also the owner. I don't know how that would run into it. 24 Is the owner -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The subdivider is one and 11-27-06 86 1 the same with the -- the owner at the time? The person 2 desiring to sell the land is subdividing it, and therefore 3 it's his responsibility to plat or replat. Would that not be 4 the case? 5 MR. EMERSON: That's my understanding. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so, because of 8 Headwaters' -- 9 MR. ODOM: Already got a well drilled. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- issue, their permit to 11 drill a well, and -- 12 MR. ODOM: So, there will be two things. One would 13 be, well, would this individual get water, and could this 14 individual put a septic in? Apparently he can do the well, 15 'cause they've allowed him to drill it. The other question 16 is, can Miguel fit it into this 2 acres to make it work with 17 that well? I don't know about that. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the answer, Miguel? 19 MR. ARREOLA: It's possible. It's possible. But 20 the platting materials that we have for the septic, it will 21 meet all the state requirements, so we will hold the permit 22 until the subdivision is approved or not. But it is -- the 23 septic can be in there with the well. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're talking about -- 25 just a second, Judge. We're talking about we're going to 11-27-06 87 1 require them to go ahead and plat? Or that's your question? 2 MR. ODOM: That's my question. Should we do it? Or 3 this is already a -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or should we just turn our 5 heads at anybody that comes along and drills a water well, and 6 just turn our heads and let them go ahead and do it and get 7 away with it? 8 MR. ODOM: Well, if they have a permit. The 9 question would be "permitted," the permitted septic system or 10 permitted water system, and this was grandfathered by 11 Headwaters. They know what our policy is, I think. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, see, that's the point 13 that really kind of ticks me off, is that we're basing our 14 operation on what Headwaters say, and I really don't care what 15 Headwaters says. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. County Attorney has 17 something to say. 18 MR. EMERSON: I think my train of thought is 19 probably along what you were fixing to get to, Commissioner 20 Baldwin. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate you stopping me, 22 'cause I was going to use some curse words. 23 MR. EMERSON: The subdivision and the approval and 24 regulation of subdivision is not based on water and 25 environmental health. Water and environmental health only 11-27-06 88 1 comes into effect on the size of the lot -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3 MR. EMERSON: -- that's subdivided, but the purpose 4 and the intent of the Subdivision Rules is to regulate the 5 plats so that the general public is informed and has an 6 accurate place to go to for land descriptions. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 8 MR. EMERSON: So, the fact that it already has a 9 well or qualified for septic is a whole different issue. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, I gather that the purchaser 11 of this 2-acre tract, Mr. Owen, owned other adjacent property 12 to this 2 acres at the time he purchased this 2 acres to 13 combine with it? 14 MR. ODOM: Well, to my knowledge, the answer is no, 15 that he just bought that 2 acres. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How would Headwaters give him a 17 permit without having 5 acres? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grandfathered. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Or do they care? 20 MR. ODOM: Well, to my -- my understanding from 21 Headwaters is that they had a grandfather date. If they -- 22 people had been doing this, and the Court has decided that we 23 were going to plat everything. Apparently they had a 24 grandfather clause that if you had bought a piece of property 25 prior to that date, that they would grant a permit, and this 11-27-06 89 1 young man had bought this land prior to that grandfather 2 clause, even though it wasn't platted. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently, that means, then, that he 4 had it under contract prior to July 24, '06. 5 MR. ODOM: That's right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is the date that he got his 7 deed. He would have had to have a contract to purchase that 8 property prior to the grandfather date. But, to your 9 knowledge, he had no other property? 10 MR. ODOM: To my knowledge, he had no other 11 property; he had just bought this 2 acres from this 15-acre 12 tract, and an individual had sold it to him. He had it, and 13 he had a permit to -- went to Headwaters; he wanted to build a 14 home. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the date, Judge, that 16 appears to be in the field notes by Mr. Digges, "This 17 description is a companion to a plat of survey dated 18 December 17, 2001," and so forth and so on. 19 MR. ODOM: Yeah, prior to the -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it gets me back to my 21 question. I understand the point, but if there's any fault 22 here, it's not the fault of the purchaser; it's the fault of 23 the seller. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. ODOM: That's true. 11-27-06 90 1 MR. EMERSON: I don't have Chapter 232 in front of 2 me, but if I'm not mistaken, under Chapter 232 -- I think it's 3 .035 or .025; anyway, it's the subdivider's responsibility. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what's the issue before 5 us? 6 MR. EMERSON: We can -- 7 MR. ODOM: The issue is, if we go ahead, we'll 8 contact the -- we'll contact this young man and tell him he 9 needs to get with the seller and, I guess, try to get this 10 thing platted so he can get on trying to build his home. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, apparently Headwaters made some 12 sort of conscious election to go with the executory contract 13 date back in '01, which, if it's like most contracts, the rest 14 of the world had no notice of. 15 MR. ODOM: Sure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Rather than the conveyance of title 17 in '06, which, of course, when recorded, the entire world has 18 notice of. So, you know, how many more of these ambushes are 19 out there awaiting us? 20 MR. ODOM: I don't know. We try to address the ones 21 that are brought. We have no earthly idea. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of these -- some of these 23 contracts are 10-, 15-, 20-, 30-year contracts. By that 24 rationale, we could be seeing these things crop up and 25 permitted by Headwaters 25 years from now. 11-27-06 91 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And somebody claiming "King's X" 3 because Headwaters elected to go with an executory contract 4 date that the world didn't have notice of, because it was not 5 recorded, as opposed to the actual conveyance of title. I 6 think that's a real, real compelling issue here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 8 MR. ODOM: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wish I'd have said that. 10 MR. ODOM: Basically, we're still going with our 11 December of 2000 date that we have. If it's after that day -- 12 time, it's not grandfathered. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that prompts the question, are 14 we bound by the contract date, or are we bound by the 15 conveyance of title date? You know, it would be real easy in 16 this situation for the seller, knowing what he's facing, to go 17 -- to go back to the buyer, Mr. Owen in this case, and say, 18 "We need to enter into a new contract dated 1989," or 1994, or 19 something to precede our grandfather date. And what kind of 20 position are we in to -- to say you can't do that? That -- 21 you know, we don't have this information. The information we 22 get is the same information the public gets when something 23 goes of record in this courthouse. That's why it goes of 24 record. 25 MR. ODOM: Okay. 11-27-06 92 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the course of -- the 2 remedy, course of remedy would be to notify the seller that 3 we're going to require him to prepare a division of -- 4 division of property, a new plat, plat revision. Right? 5 MR. ODOM: For that 2 acres. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And come before the Court 7 for a variance, is what he'd be coming for. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he can do whatever he chooses, 9 but I think it falls under our -- our Subdivision Rules 10 requirements. Now, he's got his buyer in a switch, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I was just going to 12 make that point. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not party to that transaction, 14 see. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's hanging this young 16 man -- 17 MR. ODOM: He's hanging the young man out. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- out to dry in terms of 19 building a home and whatever, because the seller didn't do 20 what he should have done. Is that correct, Mr. County 21 Attorney? 22 MR. EMERSON: You're correct, but there are civil 23 and criminal penalties associated with violation of 24 Subdivision Rules. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure, I understand. 11-27-06 93 1 MR. EMERSON: So there is some leverage there to get 2 the seller to take care of his business. 3 MR. ODOM: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's notify the seller that 5 he's got a problem and see where it takes us. 6 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue here is whether or 8 not Mr. Arreola goes forward with approving the septic system. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think he's gotten his answer. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think he clearly understands. 13 Okay. Anything else on that agenda item? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say one more 15 thing; that I think -- I think Mr. Digges clearly understands 16 this entire issue, and should have never, ever let this thing 17 happen like this. And I hope that we don't have another one 18 coming through here like it with his name on it. 19 MR. ODOM: And the title company. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and the title company 21 too. I agree. I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Headwaters. And I think 23 Headwaters gets caught up in this too by reason of its 24 arbitrary date that, as you point out, Judge, nobody in the 25 world knew about except them. 11-27-06 94 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody but us. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, everybody in the world 3 knew except us. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good way to put it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to Item 12; 7 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for a concept 8 of revision of plat for Lots 12, 13A and 13B, Riverside Park, 9 as set forth in Volume 1, Page 70, and Volume 4, Page 261 of 10 Plat Records, and set a public hearing for the same. You need 11 a public hearing on this item, Mr. Odom? 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, for January the 8th, 2007, at 13 10:25 a.m. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we set that 15 public hearing for January 8 at 10:25 a.m. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for 18 setting of the public hearing as indicated. Any question or 19 comment on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 25 Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 11-27-06 95 1 purchase three pieces of equipment at the expiration of their 2 leases. Mr. Odom? 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Last time we brought this 4 agenda item to you more for information and guidance on it. 5 And, basically, what we've decided is, looking at the best 6 interests of the county, since the lease would almost double 7 compared to what we've been doing over the last 10 years, and 8 that we have very few hours -- when I say that in relation to 9 that piece of equipment, most of them are running 1,700 hours 10 on maintainers and all. I think it's in the best interests of 11 the County to purchase that. We have a balloon, and I 12 believe -- talking to Tommy, I don't believe that there would 13 be a problem. Of course, it has to do with amortization and 14 the interest rate, but we believe that we can amortize this -- 15 I would like to amortize it over 84. I believe that's what 16 Tommy -- but I will be having -- over the next two years, be 17 paying off the distributor, the chip spreader, and the zipper, 18 and that I -- my intent is to make -- make the payments, and 19 they'll be almost where my lease agreement's at, and that I 20 would pay this off, I think, within four years; at least five 21 years, but four years, depending upon having some capital 22 outlay still left, and in case an emergency came up for 23 another vehicle. That's one thing that I need to keep is my 24 rolling stock, those trucks going all the time. But I believe 25 we can do this and not hurt me. Budget-wise, I'll pay it off 11-27-06 96 1 early. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it was wise of you to get the 3 purchase options in those lease agreements. And -- 4 MR. ODOM: There was a day -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the obvious benefit is what you 6 discovered. It's going to cost you about twice what your 7 lease costs now -- 8 MR. ODOM: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to keep that equipment. You, of 10 course, had kept it in good shape; it's not worn out? 11 MR. ODOM: Not worn out. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 13 MR. ODOM: All the tests have been done on it that 14 was required for the -- the lease, and so we know where it's 15 at. There was a day, and that day is 10 years later, where -- 16 where we were going to be, and there is an opportunity to 17 continue on and still have the equipment. And five years down 18 the road, we'll -- we'll look at something again. It will be 19 10 years old. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know what the 21 interest rate would be on a seven-year note? 22 MR. ODOM: I believe it was quoted -- Cat Financial 23 said it was five and a half, so I'm not quite sure. But Tommy 24 hasn't looked into it, but I think that I'm going to be in 25 that neighborhood, between five and a half and six and a half 11-27-06 97 1 percent, probably. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're asking for 3 approval of a -- of a plan that would be to purchase this -- 4 MR. ODOM: The purchase of this vehicle. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Purchase over a seven-year 6 payback amortization schedule, with an "on or before" so you 7 can pay it off earlier if you -- 8 MR. ODOM: If I choose. I hate to say that the 9 court order would say just 84. I have -- I need to let Tommy 10 take a look at it and see. But I feel like if I did my 11 amortization on this thing, that I'm running very close to 12 what I'm originally paying right now, so I believe 84 would 13 give me that option. I can pay it off early. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're seeking, then, is 15 authorization to -- to elect the purchase option for these 16 three pieces of equipment, and to obtain the appropriate 17 finances -- 18 MR. ODOM: Finances. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- with the assistance of the 20 Auditor? 21 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. I thought that was a 23 motion. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I make that motion. 11-27-06 98 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion and a second 3 for approval of the agenda item. Any question or discussion 4 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Good work, 10 Leonard. Appreciate it. 11 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Even though it was done by an Aggie. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 14 MR. ODOM: Do I need -- pardon me? I'm sorry? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't catch that one, Leonard? 16 MR. ODOM: I didn't catch it; I'm hard of hearing. 17 Something about maroon. I didn't -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't use that term. 19 MR. ODOM: Do I need -- may I ask -- I'm sorry. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 21 MR. ODOM: Do I need to stay for one of the -- 22 Bill's got -- do I need to stay on this dam? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably wouldn't be a bad idea. 25 We'll get to it pretty quick. 11-27-06 99 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, you need to listen to 2 it and pick up a copy of the report. Is it in your backup 3 material? 4 MR. ODOM: I haven't received it; it wasn't on my 5 desk, unless they had it this morning and I didn't see it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's -- let's move to Item 8 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt a 9 companion resolution acknowledging U.G.R.A.'s participation in 10 the Kerrville South Wastewater Project, Phase IV. 11 Commissioner Williams. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That -- that's what this 13 would be, Judge, a companion resolution acknowledging their 14 participation and willingness to put up a grant match in 15 Budget Year '07, I believe. And also our party's intention to 16 enter into an interlocal agreement to set out the conditions 17 of the grant, and to agree to convey ownership upon completion 18 of the project. I so move the resolution. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 21 of the resolution as indicated. Any question or discussion on 22 that motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Once again, thank you to 24 U.G.R.A. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, indeed. 11-27-06 100 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And thanks to Commissioner 2 Williams for taking the lead on these kind of things. This 3 probably wouldn't have happened without him. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably wouldn't. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I want to echo both of those 6 thoughts. Made a good effort. This is essentially going to 7 be a continuing operation, and we appreciate that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 10 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 15 Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 16 report and recommendations of T.C.E.Q. Dam Safety Division 17 regarding the Flat Rock Lake Dam. Commissioner Williams. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've included in your packet 19 a report from the Dam Safety folks, part of T.C.E.Q. Just to 20 bring the Court -- refresh the Court's memory, we received a 21 report from Head -- from U.G.R.A. that somebody reported to 22 them that they could see the leak. And they took some 23 pictures, and we went out -- Leonard and I went out, and got 24 one or others of his men, went out and looked at it. I didn't 25 find the particular leak, but we did see some other areas that 11-27-06 101 1 were problematic. The result of that first visit was that we 2 then contacted the Dam Safety Program and reported it all to 3 them, and they -- they told us to take some pictures. We did 4 that; we sent it back, and then they finally agreed that 5 they'd come out themselves and do a second inspection. They 6 did that about two weeks ago, I guess, or three weeks ago. 7 Right, Leonard, something like that? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And two fellows from the Dam 10 Safety Division came, two engineers, and one other gentleman 11 from the Water Division of T.C.E.Q., and they did a real, real 12 thorough walkover, and pounding and looking at the dam. To 13 cut to the bottom, you saw the pictures. If those are not 14 visible or good enough for you, I've got the color photos that 15 they sent me. But the bottom line is, there are some problems 16 with it. Now, they'll be very quick to tell you that the 17 problems at the dam that are evident by inspecting are not of 18 a tremendously serious nature, and that even if there was a 19 dam failure, which nobody's predicting would be the case, 20 that's a recreational dam, and the result of that doesn't pose 21 any threat to life and safety and properties downstream, 22 because it -- because the volume of water that it impounds is 23 not that great. 24 But in looking at the dam and walking over it and 25 checking it from both -- in all aspects of it on the outflow 11-27-06 102 1 side and on the ends, the end and the cap, they discovered 2 that there are some -- some breaches in the dam. And 3 essentially what's happening in the one area -- and you can 4 see it in Photo Number 13; you can see where water coming over 5 on the outflow side is actually going into a hole on the 6 outflow side, and who knows where that water's going when it 7 goes in. So, the bottom line is that they recommend that we 8 probably retain an engineer to go out and take a good look at 9 it and give us some assessment of what kind of course of 10 action would be required to remedy any deficiencies or -- or 11 structural problems that might occur. We couldn't tell 12 what -- what's taking place on the -- on the side that 13 impounds the water. We could only inspect very carefully the 14 outflow side and the ends and the cap, and these are what 15 their findings were, if you've read the entire report. 16 Leonard, do you need to add something to that? You were there 17 with your fellow. 18 MR. ODOM: No, sir, I think you've covered 19 everything. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the recommendation would 21 be to find us an engineer who deals in dams and dam 22 construction, and get that individual out to take a look and 23 see this report and these pictures, and get that individual to 24 go out and take a closer look and come back and tell us what 25 the remedy might be. 11-27-06 103 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the perfect world 2 would be to figure out a way to drain that thing and get all 3 the trash off the front end of it, and so you can really take 4 a serious look at it, as opposed to this bandaid approach. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're absolutely right. 6 You're absolutely right, and that would require -- I'm sorry, 7 that would require going down there and -- and pulling that 8 balloon device that's covering the outflow -- the outflow 9 pipe, and letting the water down so you can see. That's 10 another -- that's another element and another cost. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. And in my 12 mind, it would be worth those dollars to do it right the first 13 time. Although that report didn't -- there was -- the word 14 "emergency" or "hysterical" or none of those things were used 15 in there, which surprised me. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, me too. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But it needs to be 18 done. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. There was no -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just can't imagine doing -- 21 doing it piecemeal. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless -- I'm sorry. Let me 24 interrupt you one more time. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 11-27-06 104 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless we're just talking 2 about this concrete cap that goes on top of the dam. I think 3 we're talking about more than that. I think we're talking 4 about cavities and cracks and those kinds of things that could 5 be dangerous. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're absolutely right. 7 And they did not try to convey any sense of hysteria and get 8 everybody alarmed that we have this problem impending -- big 9 problem, impending danger. But when you've got water going 10 over the outflow and it's going in a hole, it's going down 11 inside where all the dirt is and so forth, that -- the berm 12 inside. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they were quick to tell 15 us, "We don't know what that means," and -- but you need to 16 take a look at it. So, my thought is that we need to locate 17 an engineer, and they give us a list of engineers that might 18 be available to be retained. So, if the Court has no 19 objection, I'll contact some of those and bring back some cost 20 estimates and time estimates and -- and maybe get somebody 21 here to talk to us about how we do the whole thing, and what 22 the differences in cost would be. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be wise. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's where we need to go. 25 On the issue of dropping that thing down to the lower inlet, I 11-27-06 105 1 note in the report it shows in Photo 9, "The control for the 2 low-flow inlet, now inoperable," which means that in order to 3 open that low-flow valve, as indicated in the diagram, 4 that's -- it would indicate that there's going to have to be 5 some manual effort made to go underwater to do that, 6 apparently. Is this similar to the problem we've had out at 7 Ingram Dam? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is, Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Similar. A little different. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This lake was lowered one 11 other time, and that device -- whether it worked or failed, 12 I'm not sure. Do you remember, Leonard? But the net result 13 was that device no longer pulls that cap up over off that 14 inflow. There is a huge -- I guess a large -- 15 MR. ODOM: Propane ball. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- propane tank that's 17 plugging that hole. And so that -- so the pressure of the 18 water holds that tank in place. You know, somebody would have 19 to go down there and get that -- 20 MR. ODOM: Scuba diver. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- get that out. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's actually more than that, 23 actually. You -- they have removed that before one time, and 24 you have to clear all the silt and gravel and rocks and trees 25 and all of that off of it, and you can hook onto it with your 11-27-06 106 1 cranes and bulldozers and all that, but the way they did it 2 before, someone crawled -- my friend Ray Crooks crawled up -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Inside. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- from the -- crawled up 5 from the lower end through that pipe and set an explosive 6 charge. 7 MR. ODOM: Tommy Taylor. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy Taylor. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Threw it out. 10 MR. ODOM: Threw it out. That's where the propane 11 ball came back. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably the only way to get 13 that thing out of there. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MR. ODOM: It works. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it would be worth it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree with you, 18 Commissioner. It would be. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, when you start -- 20 when you get it drained, you start cleaning it up, there's a 21 cost there that you probably don't think much about. You're 22 probably going to tie up Leonard's crews for a period of days 23 on that silt, disposing of it in accordance with T.C.E.Q. 24 requirements. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11-27-06 107 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a heck of a project. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Silt. And I recall -- it is 4 a heck of a project, and I recall -- I'm not sure whether it 5 was the flood of 2002; it might have been earlier when the 6 intake on U.G.R.A. Lake got loaded with silt and debris and so 7 forth, and they had to go in there with a drag line and get 8 all that stuff out, let it dry, let it de -- de-water. It 9 took a lot of time and a good bit of bucks to get it done. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess my point in mentioning 11 that thing being inoperable was that part of the assessment by 12 the engineer would be whether it's necessary that we do that, 13 or necessary or appropriate -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- under the circumstances. But the 16 result is still the same. We need to have somebody that has 17 more expertise than we do to take a look at this thing, and we 18 need to find out who they are. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't I make some calls 20 and see who's available and send them a copy of this report, 21 and we'll go from there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I think that's a good solution. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're going to try to hire 24 a dam engineer? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 11-27-06 108 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You're going to try to hire 2 a dam engineer? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, a dam engineer. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Damned if you do, damned if 5 you don't. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Out at the Ingram Dam, 7 we've got the dam lawyer. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Dam Store. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's on his sign up there 10 above his office. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to remind you, too, 12 years ago we went through this exact same thing, and we had -- 13 and I believe it -- the Schlumberger Company is the company 14 that came out and actually X-rayed Ingram and Flat Rock, and 15 found large cavities where the dirt -- where the water had 16 seeped in and the dirt had actually gone out some way or 17 another. And that was dangerous. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that -- we've 19 discovered, by walking the cap -- Leonard had one of his guys 20 with a huge sledgehammer tapping on that cap, and we'd come 21 across hollow areas, which tells you that it's settled in 22 certain areas in the berm inside that cap, and that there's 23 some problems -- potential problems. Okay, we'll proceed with 24 it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to Item 16; 11-27-06 109 1 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt a 2 resolution of commendation for the service and sacrifice of 3 Naval Petty Officer Charles Komppa, formerly of Ingram, Texas. 4 Commissioner Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. First of all, I 6 want to thank Commissioner Williams for, as our wordsmith, 7 putting this resolution together and using proper English. 8 But I'll read the resolution. "Whereas, Naval Petty Officer 9 Charles Komppa, a 1990 graduate of Ingram Tom Moore High 10 School, was killed in Iraq Tuesday, October 24th, 2006, while 11 serving with his unit, the 3rd Naval Construction Regiment; 12 and Whereas Charles Komppa, a stellar student at Ingram Tom 13 Moore High School, who participated in football and 14 cross-country track and was a member of the 1989 state 15 runner-up cross-country team; and Whereas Charles was married 16 to the former Delisa Dewey, a 1989 ITM graduate, had two 17 children, Alicia, age 14, and Gary, age 11; and Whereas, 18 Charles joined the United States Navy after high school, 19 served a five-year term, and reenlisted as a reservist whose 20 unit was then deployed to Iraq; and Whereas Charles was known 21 as a caring community member while living in Absarokee, 22 Montana, using his technical skills for the betterment of his 23 adopted community; Now, therefore, be it resolved that the 24 Kerr County Commissioners Court commends Navy Petty Officer 25 Charles Komppa for his service to his country, and ultimate 11-27-06 110 1 sacrifice, and extends its sympathy and condolences to his 2 family and friends. Adopted this 27th day of November, 2006," 3 and signed by every member of the Commissioners Court. I move 4 that resolution. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 7 adoption of the resolution. Any question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The West Kerr Current 9 reporter pointed out to me that Komppa has been spelled a 10 different way in some -- some other documents or publications, 11 so we need to check out the spelling, whether it's one P or 12 two P's. Unless you know? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got this information from 14 the West Kerr Current. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the information we 16 got from West Kerr Current. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way it was 19 spelled. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's go and doublecheck. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We will. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, thank you. With that caveat, 23 any question or discussion? All in favor of the resolution, 24 signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11-27-06 111 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, when we get this typed 5 and cleaned up and done properly, I will seek out the -- I 6 guess the wife and children to get this to. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd appreciate that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 17; consider, 10 discuss, and take appropriate action on proposed interlocal 11 agreement between Kerr County and the City of Ingram with 12 regard to O.S.S.F. jurisdiction and services. I put this on 13 the agenda. We initially started considering this, oh, a 14 number of months ago. Mayor Jackson and City Attorney Danny 15 Edwards initially had a discussion about this. It went 16 through the Environmental Services department here, and 17 needless to say, it's not going to be a money-maker for us, 18 but I think we can do this more efficiently in Ingram, Texas 19 than they can in the city of Ingram, and it'll give us 20 uniformity of -- of purpose and -- and the licensing and 21 enforcement, and I think it's a good thing. The County 22 Attorney has approved the interlocal agreement. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, earlier, the 24 Environmental Health Director said that -- that there would be 25 budget consequences to taking this action. Do we have some 11-27-06 112 1 feel for what those budget consequences are? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding -- and, of course, 3 Miguel can probably be a little bit more informative on 4 this -- was that there was a concern about -- obviously, this 5 department doesn't make money. It's health and safety issues 6 that they -- that they keep track of. But the -- the number 7 of actual cases that we're going to be involved in for 8 licensing are going to be quite small; probably three to five 9 a year, is what I've been hearing, which should have minimal 10 impact. Now, the greater impact may be on the enforcement end 11 of it, and I suspect Mr. Arreola can tell us more about that. 12 MR. ARREOLA: That's what I was going -- the revenue 13 side is going to be low. The resources needed for enforcement 14 is where the greatest expense is going to be. So it's a 15 little unbalanced. I think it's good for the environment, but 16 that's it's going to take some of our resources, plus the data 17 entry and the -- all the recordkeeping. It's different. So, 18 we're going to have to -- for T.C.E.Q. audits and 19 informational purposes, we're going to have to convert all of 20 that into our system, which is going to take extra -- extra 21 efforts. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is that recordkeeping 23 and enforcement going to cost? 24 MR. ARREOLA: I don't have numbers. I don't know 25 how many we're going to be actually enforcing. But, you know, 11-27-06 113 1 we didn't budget for none, so it'll be, you know, outside. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the history -- 3 Ingram's history in terms of volume over the years past? Do 4 you have some sense of it that way? 5 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. New permitting, we have 6 some numbers, and I think probably three, four a year. We 7 have no records of enforcement. They don't have them, so we 8 don't -- we don't know what's -- what's there. There's a part 9 of the state law that says we have to do maintenance on a 10 unit. It's not going on in the county right now -- in the 11 city, so we're going to have to implement that from scratch. 12 And all that will take -- you know. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, those numbers will have to be 14 developed, 'cause we don't have any historical numbers. 15 MR. ARREOLA: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: From the prosecution and judicial 17 resources, those are -- we already do those, -- 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- obviously. It's the 20 administrative out of your office that we're talking about. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the question mark. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to -- that was my 25 only comment, is this one sentence here in the City's 11-27-06 114 1 responsibilities. Section 4B, The City will, at the request 2 of the County, have its City Attorney file in the Ingram 3 Municipal Court any complaints or causes of action as 4 necessary for the enforcement of the rules and regulations. 5 So, that sounds like to me that if we ask them to, then they 6 will handle all -- all of that. 7 MR. ARREOLA: They will handle the court side, but 8 all the investigation and all the resources come from us 9 first. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I understand that now. 11 So, while I'm there, the only comment -- and I see Howard back 12 there -- the only comment I have about this, if it -- if the 13 -- if it does go into the courtroom in the City of Ingram, and 14 if they don't take care of business out there, then I -- this 15 Commissioner will take another hard look at it immediately. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. I was going to ask, and 17 probably to the attorney's office, if I could -- 'cause I 18 didn't see anything anywhere in here that I cannot take it to 19 the J.P. court. If I could take it to the J.P. court instead 20 of municipal court. I don't know if the J.P. will take it, if 21 it's overlapping jurisdiction. But we -- you know, the J.P.'s 22 know the rules; we've been working with them. They've been 23 good to us. So -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mayor Walker, did you have a -- 25 MAYOR JACKSON: I was just going to say, the City 11-27-06 115 1 does have some extra power as far as enforcement. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Not Walker, Jackson. Excuse me. 3 MAYOR JACKSON: I knew you knew who I was. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's getting confused. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: This is not the first time I've done 6 this, either. There is a Howard Walker, pretty good mandolin 7 player; I'm sure you know him. 8 MAYOR JACKSON: No, not really. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: He played with the Poverty Playboys. 10 MAYOR JACKSON: Anyway, back to the subject, 11 there -- there are some additional enforcement actions that 12 the City can take that the County cannot, over and above the 13 actual technical -- whatever, as far as the O.S.S.F. rules. 14 In other words, we can use nuisances, we can use a lot of 15 things that we have in our little repertoire that -- that you 16 guys don't. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Commissioner 18 Baldwin's point is really valid, in that we're expending the 19 time and the effort to -- to address failing septics or 20 correct problems, and if the City doesn't follow up with 21 that, -- 22 MAYOR JACKSON: Well, all I can say -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- then that's a wasted 24 effort. 25 MAYOR JACKSON: All I can say is as long as I'm 11-27-06 116 1 there, I guarantee it will be. And beyond that, I can't -- of 2 course, I can't promise. But -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 MAYOR JACKSON: -- I think once it's up and rolling, 5 though, I think -- I don't think anything's really going to 6 change, to be honest with you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that good or bad? 8 MAYOR JACKSON: That's good. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MAYOR JACKSON: In other words, the enforcement is 11 going to be pretty strong. I live there, and that's -- and 12 water and wastewater is my business. Environment's my 13 business. So -- and I think if we can get this thing set up 14 and get it going, I don't think it's going to change. I mean, 15 I can't imagine anybody sitting where I'm sitting now and 16 taking a contrary action. I just -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looking ahead to the future, 18 in terms of Ingram and its centralized sewer system, have you 19 adopted an ordinance that will require people living within 20 your city limits to hook up to that sewer system? 21 MAYOR JACKSON: Yes, definitely. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a real plus. 23 MAYOR JACKSON: Yes, that's going to happen. And 24 there also -- there have been several people from outside the 25 city express interest in being annexed and tying on, and I 11-27-06 117 1 asked this last council meeting for a consensus on -- we're 2 going to concentrate on taking care of the city first, what's 3 there now. Now, if somebody wants to come in from the outside 4 and they want to pay the full cost, then more power to them, 5 but we're not going to subsidize. We're going to take care of 6 our own first. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think you got to 8 prosecute them to the hilt, especially in the beginning, to 9 get the attention and let people know that you're there on 10 base. 11 MAYOR JACKSON: Exactly. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is, if Miguel chooses to 13 use the City of Ingram. We know what our J.P.'s will do. 14 MAYOR JACKSON: If we know of a problem within the 15 city, what I'm saying is, I guarantee you that any -- any 16 other resources we can bring to bear will happen, 'cause this 17 is -- well, this affects everybody. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 MAYOR JACKSON: And we're right on the river too, 20 just like everybody else. The old -- the common misconception 21 about septic systems is, if it's not bubbling up out of the 22 ground, it's working. Well, I beg to differ in this part of 23 the world. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What authority does Ingram 25 have -- the City have over a county function? 11-27-06 118 1 MAYOR JACKSON: Well, we're -- we just have a lot 2 more leeway in defining nuisances, and just -- there's a lot 3 of things we can do. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MAYOR JACKSON: Where -- where county governments 6 are just not empowered to do. You guys can enforce the state 7 rules, but we can add onto them; we can make them more strict 8 if we desire. We don't have to actually attack it from the 9 O.S.S.F. standpoint; we can attack it from an impact on a 10 neighbor or something like -- like a nuisance, or there's 11 probably some other lawyerly terms that you can use. But -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, shouldn't that be done 13 before we adopt this? 14 MAYOR JACKSON: Well, I'd kind of like to see what 15 -- what we run into. We can handle things. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MAYOR JACKSON: I'm no fan of overregulation. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 MAYOR JACKSON: Let's see how it works, and if we 20 need to do some things, then we can make that happen. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, very good. 22 MR. ARREOLA: My question then is, we're going to be 23 enforcing state law or any county rules more stringent than 24 the state law in the City of Ingram; is that correct? 25 MAYOR JACKSON: No. What we want you guys to do is 11-27-06 119 1 enforce the state law. If -- if there's a situation where 2 maybe the state law doesn't contemplate a certain thing, then 3 there's some things that we can probably do to address that. 4 MR. ARREOLA: So, we just bring it to your 5 attention? 6 MAYOR JACKSON: As long as we know it, correct. 7 MR. ARREOLA: All right. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. I'm going to move we 9 approve the proposed interlocal agreement between Kerr County 10 and the City of Ingram with regard to O.S.S.F. jurisdiction 11 and services, and authorize County Judge to sign same. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 14 of the agenda item as indicated. Any further question or 15 discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, I've got a couple 17 comments. One, I think y'all are aware that I believe that 18 any time that government entities like the county and cities 19 can combine services and effectively avoid duplication and 20 take advantage of those economies of scales and synergies, I 21 want to do that, and there are other opportunities that we 22 haven't looked at. For that reason, I think this is a good 23 piece of business. I also think that next summer or sooner, 24 that the -- the Environmental Health Director's going to come 25 to you and say, "I need some more money because of that Ingram 11-27-06 120 1 contract," so we'll wait and see. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: For -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this a one-year 4 agreement? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: One year or subject to 90 days 6 cancellation, I believe it is. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, by either party. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. It's automatically renewable 9 for one -- one-year terms, unless specific notice of 10 nonrenewal is given, or 90 days cancellation. Any other 11 questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 17 Item 18; consider/discuss the appointment of Jennifer 18 Correa-Knoulton to the Kerr County Child Service Board. 19 Commissioner Baldwin. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. We have a slot -- 21 or actually several slots, and the present board has met with 22 Ms. Knoulton and decided that she would be a good candidate 23 for the Child Service Board. And after reading her 24 information here, I'm in agreement, and I'd like to move that 25 we approve Jennifer Correa-Knoulton as a member of the County 11-27-06 121 1 Child Service Board. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 4 as indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 5 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Does any 10 member of the Court have anything to -- that they want to 11 offer in closed or executive session with regard to the -- to 12 any of the agenda items? If not, we will move forward. Let's 13 go to the approval agenda, payment of the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move we pay the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for payment 17 of the bills. Any question or discussion? I had a couple of 18 items marked here that -- I'm not sure how many of you noticed 19 that our Court-Appointed Services in the 216th District Court 20 probably went down the tube for the entire year with the 21 payment to the psychiatrist. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 12. Almost $20,000. That's one 24 of the psychiatrists. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm. 11-27-06 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall what we budgeted, 2 but -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that for Mr. -- for -- 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seard? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Mr. Seard? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure if it was that one or -- 7 it probably had to do with the Hernandez case, in which there 8 was a question raised by the Mexican government. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: On a post-conviction remedy that was 11 asserted here locally. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, in one fell swoop, it's 13 over. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't recall the exact amount 15 we budgeted, but if it didn't wipe it out, it took a nice 16 chunk of it, and we've got some more coming. This same 17 psychiatrist testified in the Seard case here last week or 18 week before, whichever it was. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which there were four of 20 those guys. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We had -- we had another competency 22 issue in the Ligon case, which was, I guess, last week, where 23 there were some psychiatrists. This was over in the 198th, 24 though. I guess we're going to wipe out that budget there. 25 The Seard case, however, is in the 216th, so we may see a 11-27-06 123 1 budget amendment there. The next item that I'd like to go to 2 is Page 24, if we could. And maybe -- maybe this is not as it 3 appears. There's, in the Tax Assessor's budget, a payment to 4 Diane Bolin, Tax Assessor, for reimbursement of postage for 5 almost $6,800. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: She wrote -- apparently wrote a 7 check out of her account. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Out of her Tax Office account? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Tax Office account. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is not as it appears, then. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you like to look at the 12 bill? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not here. We don't 17 have bills in here, and I'm really uncomfortable not having 18 the bills down here. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: But she wrote it out of her Tax 20 Office account, not her personal account? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He thinks. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's all the questions I got. 11-27-06 124 1 Any other questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by 2 raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 7 budget amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is for Election 9 Expenses. This is from the County Clerk, to transfer $52.55 10 from Signs to Election Supplies. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Budget Amendment 20 Request 2. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Two is from the Treasurer's office, 22 to transfer $260 from Office Supplies to Machine Repairs. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. What kind of 25 machine? 11-27-06 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 2 of Budget Amendment Request 2. Any question or discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What kind of machine? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: It was a printer. It's an HP-1320. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's so good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How'd you do that without 8 looking at the bills? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I have copies of them in here. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah-hah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're cheating. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 13 by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Budget Amendment 18 Request 3. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I thought printers were 20 throw-aways. When mine breaks, I throw it away and go get 21 another one for about 59.95. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because the cartridges cost 24 more than the printer. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It does. 11-27-06 126 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $260. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Go ahead, excuse me. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: -- for the Sheriff's Department. 6 And, actually, it's to recognize or include the grant -- the 7 VINE grant, victims grant from the state, $7,548. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Budget 17 Amendment 4. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: This is also for the Sheriff, and 19 this is to increase the budget by the amount of -- of 20 insurance on a vehicle in the amount of $2,581. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and sectioned for 24 approval of Budget Amendment Request 4. Any question or 25 discussion? 11-27-06 127 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is -- we are declaring 2 an emergency? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You note that we had to expend the 6 deductible, however, as opposed to laying claim for the entire 7 amount on the third party's carrier. Any other question or 8 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 14 Amendment Request 5. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 5 is for Elections. The Clerk 16 handed me this this morning, and we -- we have an invoice from 17 Hart on ballots. In order to pay this, we need to transfer 18 2,738.88 into the Ballot Expense line item. There is not 19 anything -- not any excess funds in the Clerk's budget or the 20 Elections budget, so I'm recommending that we transfer that 21 from Nondepartmental out of the insurance -- the Liability 22 Insurance line item. There's $17,710 excess funds in that 23 line item. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's because of that credit that we 25 got from Texas Association of Counties? 11-27-06 128 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of our good experience 3 rating, and -- that we were notified here just -- that was 4 50-some-odd thousand dollars worth, as I recall. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the check is right 6 over there against the wall. I think. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have a motion? I 8 move to approve. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 11 of Budget Amendment Request 5. Any question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have any more 13 elections this budget cycle, is there? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think so. 16 MS. THOMPSON: No. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 19 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 24 any late bills? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 11-27-06 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 2 reports from the District Clerk for October '06, and the 3 County Clerk General and Trust Fund for September '06, and 4 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1. Do I hear a motion that 5 these reports be approved as presented? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You moved? Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 9 of the reports as presented. Any question or discussion on 10 the motion? All in favor of the motion signify by raids can 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 16 any reports from any of the Commissioners on their liaison or 17 committee assignments? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have none. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any -- any reports from elected 20 officials or department heads? Let me throw an issue out on 21 the table here. This is certainly not going to place me in 22 good stead with some of the elected officials, but as this 23 Court will recall, we set the holiday schedule for the -- for 24 the coming -- the current fiscal year, and we authorized 25 Thanksgiving and the day following Thanksgiving. There were 11-27-06 130 1 some elected officials who elected to close their offices 2 early on the Wednesday preceding the holidays authorized by 3 this Court. As best I can tell, there have not been any 4 indications that there was any sort of an emergency status, as 5 is sometimes anticipated by the A.G. opinions that allow the 6 elected officials to have autonomy in closing their offices 7 early. I'm sure the Court will recall here several years ago, 8 there was an issue about employees needing to be released 9 early because of impending drastic weather conditions; icing, 10 storms, things of that nature. I think years earlier, there 11 was an issue of -- of some toxic fumes that got into one of 12 the offices, health and safety issues, and that's certainly 13 understandable. But rather, just, I guess, declaring an early 14 holiday to some degree for that particular office. The issue 15 arises, how are we going to handle that for payroll purposes? 16 I -- you know, I see -- I see the people we work for, the 17 taxpayers and citizens of this county, as losing in two 18 respects when that happens. Number one is, they will not be 19 getting the service of employees that they have, through us, 20 agreed to pay for their work. And secondly, when they come to 21 do business at the courthouse at these offices that have 22 elected to close early, there's no one there with whom they 23 can do their business. So, I see it as a double whammy that 24 the -- that the people that employ us are getting on this 25 deal. What we elect to do about it, do you penalize the 11-27-06 131 1 employee? Dock them for hours they didn't work? Well, in 2 light of the fact that the elected official closed the office, 3 is that -- is that appropriate? The -- any employee who may 4 have said, "No, I need to stay; I don't want to be docked 5 these hours," -- "Sorry, we're closing the office." Another 6 option would be the elected official who made that unilateral 7 election to be required to absorb out of the compensation due 8 that elected official for the cumulative number of hours lost 9 by the employees that were released early. Frankly, I happen 10 to believe that option is probably the most appropriate. That 11 elected official made the call without justification, other 12 than maybe wanting to curry favor with employees. It's not an 13 agenda item; obviously, we can't do anything about it, but I 14 don't think it's right. I don't think it should have 15 happened, and I think the Court needs to take some action on 16 it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm almost there, Judge. I'm 18 almost to the point to where -- your suggestion of assessing 19 that amount of time against the elected official, and I think 20 that -- that that should be a -- a policy amendment. I think 21 we need to make an amendment to our policy and add that in, if 22 in the future that happens. I don't know that -- I don't know 23 that we should do it this time. I mean, I don't know the 24 offices that closed. I didn't watch that kind of thing. I'm 25 taking your word for it. I don't know that we could do -- not 11-27-06 132 1 could. Should. I don't know that we should do that this 2 time. But I think that it would be very appropriate to make a 3 policy saying that any time it happens from this point on, 4 that it'll happen. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, maybe the failure 6 was that this kind of thing was not raised before, because my 7 best understanding is that virtually this same identical thing 8 occurred last year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Thanksgiving? Or some 10 other -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it was immediately prior to 12 Thanksgiving. And I've heard instances where -- where there 13 was an issue with regard to prior to Christmas. But it's -- 14 it's difficult for me to explain when citizens come out to the 15 courthouse and -- and they end up coming to our office. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And they have some business they want 18 to transact, and they've come from out of town or from some 19 rural location in the county where they live, and they're here 20 to do business, and they see a sign on the door that says we 21 closed at 3 o'clock. And here they are here at 3:30 or 4:30. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, what prerogatives do 24 the law give elected officials in this regard? I kind of ask 25 the County Attorney through you. 11-27-06 133 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, this issue came up, as I 2 recall, four or five years ago. And -- and I believe there's 3 some A.G. opinions that support that there's some autonomy, 4 but that there be an emergency or exigent circumstances, 5 generally involving health or safety type issues, not just 6 unilaterally giving the employees additional time off contrary 7 to the policy which we set. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: He may be able to find something in 10 addition to that. I don't know. 11 MR. EMERSON: I'd be happy to look. I don't know 12 the answer to that off the top of my head. I will tell you, 13 though, as one of the departments affected, that I left after 14 lunch to go home; my family -- 'cause I had family coming in. 15 And a little after 3 o'clock, I got a call from my office 16 saying, "We're the only department open in the courthouse. 17 Can we close?" 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the elected official, of 19 course, is -- is an exempt employee. 20 MR. EMERSON: So -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's fine. But closing down 22 the office -- 23 MR. EMERSON: Well -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is where I have a problem, where 25 the employees are released. 11-27-06 134 1 MR. EMERSON: I can't disagree with what you're 2 saying, but I guess what I'm saying from my perspective is, I 3 gave them permission to go home, because everybody else was 4 allegedly already gone. Now, I did qualify that with the 5 understanding that it's your vacation time. So -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you got yourself covered there, 7 as far as I can tell. Now, if -- 8 MR. EMERSON: But as for -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- other elected officials did the 10 same thing, rather than just shut down the office, but say, 11 "If y'all would like, I will shut down the office, but I want 12 all of you to understand it's vacation time." But still, that 13 doesn't cover the negative of citizens coming to do business. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we also have a -- 15 maybe a corollary issue developing or brewing out there right 16 now with respect to shutting down earlier Christmas Eve and 17 attending the luncheon, where I'm hearing that there's some 18 that say, "Well, you know, we're going to shut down; we're not 19 going to go to the luncheon." And therefore, you know, that's 20 sort of in the same ball game, same thing. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to bring that up. 22 What we've always done for the Christmas party is have lunch, 23 and for some reason -- and I'm not sure if it's official or 24 not, but we close at noon on that day; that the courthouse is 25 closed, which we declare that. That means that the place is 11-27-06 135 1 closed, that people cannot come and do business. And we try 2 to have -- we're going to, this year -- and I've tried in the 3 past, and I can't seem to get this together, but this year 4 we're going to have lunch at 11 o'clock, eat at 11 o'clock, so 5 these people can eat, we can say thank you, Merry Christmas, 6 here's your 15-year pin, and then come back to the courthouse, 7 get their purse, and they can be out of here by noon if they 8 choose. Now, is that -- I don't know that we've officially 9 closed down the courthouse at noon that day. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the holiday schedule, of 11 course, is going to speak to that. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I don't -- that's what 13 I'm saying. I don't know what that says, but that's kind of 14 what we've always done. Maybe we need to get a little more 15 specific with that. I don't know. We've been too loose, I 16 agree. And the main primary concern is the taxpayers needing 17 to do business in the courthouse. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and not getting their money's 19 worth. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, and at budget time, they 22 hear elected officials come in and say, "I'm just overwhelmed; 23 I don't have enough people," and so forth, and -- and I don't 24 know what the productivity index could be if all these folks 25 had been working those extra two or three or four hours, but I 11-27-06 136 1 dare say it could have knocked a hole in something. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've turned into a grinch. 3 You're a mean -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the season. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- mean old judge, isn't he? 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Last Friday, I leapt out of 7 bed at the crack of dawn and drove to the courthouse to do 8 some business, and the courthouse was locked up, and I don't 9 have a key. I didn't know we had Friday off. That's true. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I can tell you who, according 11 to my knowledge, was around here Friday afternoon at 12 5 o'clock. Representatives of the Commissioners Court were 13 here, court administrator and myself. And I think some of 14 y'all had come in during the day. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Williams might 16 have been here, too. I thought I saw his truck. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm talking about Wednesday, not 18 Friday. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm talking Friday. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Talking about Wednesday? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor was here, 'cause I did 22 some business with the Auditor. District Clerk's Office was 23 functional. I had some business that I did with Ms. Hyde, 24 Human Resources; that was functional. Maintenance people were 25 here, 'cause I had some contact with them. But beyond that, I 11-27-06 137 1 -- you know, I can't speak to who was here, other than the 2 signs that were seen on the doors that spoke for themselves. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe the Attorney General 4 can give us a couple opinions we can read and help us 5 understand what's allowable and what's not. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, like I say, it's not going to 7 endear me a great deal with elected officials. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. As a matter of fact, I 9 think I see somebody going out and going to hang you in 10 effigy. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's fine. That's fine. 12 Anybody else want to throw anything sweet and nice out on the 13 table? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We want to recess? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tar and feathers out of 16 stock these days? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, we're looking at meeting 18 in the morning; to consider, at a minimum, recessing until in 19 the morning -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about in the afternoon? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on Item 7 and 8. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have juvies in the 23 afternoon? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't. No, I don't. I will be 25 available 10:30 in the morning. 11-27-06 138 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, the -- tomorrow is the 2 insurance -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Signup. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- meetings and signup dates 5 and all that stuff. I don't know how many days they're doing 6 it, but I know I'm scheduled in the morning for it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm scheduled in the 8 afternoon. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10:30 is cool with me. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't care. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That work for you, Commissioner? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll come back in from 13 Center Point. I'm usually in Center Point. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 15 MR. EMERSON: What time? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 10:30 is what I'm hearing. 17 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. That's fine. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we will stand in recess until 22 10:30 tomorrow, November the 28th. 23 (Commissioners Court recessed at 12:28 p.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 11-27-06 139 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of 9 December, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-27-06