1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, December 11, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 11, 2006 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Report from State Senator Troy Fraser and 4 discussion of matters to be considered in upcoming Legislative Session 9 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to amend 6 contract with Kerr County Market Association 32 7 1.3 Consider/approve resolution recommending that Texas Department of Transportation fund project 8 to raise Cade Loop Bridge in lieu of funding projects to reconstruct various low-water crossings 38 9 1.4 Consider/approve resolution supporting Texas Tech 10 University's request for funding for Hill Country Educational Network and the TTU Center at Junction 11 by Texas Legislature 50 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on new rates at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 57 13 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to avail 14 Kerr County requisite engineering services to assess damage and remedial action required to repair Flat 15 Rock Lake Dam 66 16 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to approve the County offices closing from 11 a.m. 17 to 5 p.m. on December 22, 2006 75 18 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to change the name of privately maintained road in compliance 19 with 9-1-1 Guidelines 83 20 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request by Associate Judge Camile Dubose for submission by 21 Kerr County of application for Relative/Kinship Placement Coordinator Project under Texas Court 22 Improvement Project Grant Program, approval of grant agreement in connection with such grant program 84 23 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to have 24 County Judge write a letter to LCRA requesting Rim Rock to Goat Creek Transmission Line Project 25 be put underground, but under no circumstances have the line visible from State Highway 27 86 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 11, 2006 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 Employees Health Benefits Program Plan B 101 4 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action establishing policy for bond and/or insurance 5 requirements for county elected officials, department heads, and employees who handle 6 or have access to Kerr County funds 111 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to ban aerial fireworks in Kerr County for the December- 8 January 2006 statutory sales and holiday period 129 9 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on court order dated 11/28/06 to hire additional 10 maintenance person --- 11 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on organization of Maintenance and Custodial Depts. 12 (Executive Session) --- 13 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for request for approval by Joint City/County 14 Economic Development Strategy Committee to make application to Economic Improvement Corporation to 15 fund Comprehensive Economic Development Study 131 16 1.17 Reports from the following departments: Animal Control 139 17 Extension Office 149 Environmental Health 162 18 4.1 Pay Bills 172 19 4.2 Budget Amendments 177 4.3 Late Bills --- 20 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 185 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 187 22 --- Adjourned 195 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, December 11, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this 9 time and date, Monday, December the 11th, 2006, at 9 a.m. 10 It's just a bit past that now. Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 12 join me in a word of prayer, and followed by the pledge of 13 allegiance to our flag. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 17 heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda item, you're 18 free to come forward at this time. We'd ask that you come 19 forward, give us your name and address. If you wish to be 20 heard on a particular agenda item, we would ask that you fill 21 out a participation form at the back of the room so that you 22 might be heard on that item. It's not essential, but it helps 23 me in not missing you when we get to that item. But if 24 there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard on a 25 -- on any item that is not a listed agenda item, please feel 12-11-06 5 1 free to come forward at this time. Seeing no one coming 2 forward or otherwise seeking to be recognized, we will move 3 on. Commissioner Williams, what do you have for us this 4 morning? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, just a word or two 6 saying what a good time we had last night in the little 7 community of Center Point, where they opened the Christmas 8 season by having a little celebration around the tree, singing 9 Christmas carols, and inviting the community to participate. 10 We've got a lot of fine people -- folks who live down there, 11 and they have some good organizations who work hard all 12 through the year to benefit their community, and in this 13 particular case, to benefit the people who are perhaps a 14 little less fortunate than we at this time of year. So, it's 15 always good to participate, and my hat's off to those folks 16 for what a good job they do. That's it, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have nothing this morning. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, everything that's 21 going on in west Kerr County's on the agenda, so I'll wait and 22 talk about it at that time. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. Commissioner Baldwin? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I do have a 25 few things. I wanted to talk about almost perfect government. 12-11-06 6 1 You know, we have the Child Service Board that the taxpayers, 2 through us, funds part of, and that's -- that's a part of the 3 C.P.S. program, children that are taken out of their homes for 4 abuse or other reasons. This Court puts a small amount of 5 money in the budget to help those children get a pair of 6 underwear, a pair of socks, and if they go through and 7 complete high school, we -- we assist them in purchasing a cap 8 and gown for -- you know, those kinds of things. Well, the 9 Christmas season is upon us, and I can't remember; it's a 10 record number of children that we're servicing this year, a by 11 far record number of abused children that we're servicing this 12 year. And under the leadership of Kathy here, this Kathy 13 right here, they've gone out on their own, and instead of 14 using taxpayers' money, they've gone out on their own and have 15 collected from the community a little under $3,000 for 16 Christmas gifts for these children. And that is the way this 17 thing is supposed to work. And I just wanted to say thank you 18 to Kathy and -- and the rest of the board, which is my wife, 19 and just -- just say that that's the way government is 20 supposed to work, in my opinion. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I think it's 120 22 kids, if I'm not mistaken. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A large number. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Large number. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Large number. We won't be in 12-11-06 7 1 here until after thanks -- not Thanksgiving. What do you call 2 that thing? Christmas. So, I wanted to say a special Merry 3 Christmas and thank you to our emergency service people, the 4 Sheriff's Office, the City of Kerrville Police Department, our 5 volunteer fire departments, city fire department, and the 6 county/city ambulance service. Those folks go above and 7 beyond, and they truly are 24/7. And I was thinking about it 8 this morning; my family enjoys so much early morning Christmas 9 and Santa Claus coming during the night and the kids up 10 pattering around and having that Christmas, and I'm sure a lot 11 of these emergency service people are the same way. And if a 12 fire comes in or an emergency of some type comes in, those 13 guys and gals leave their families and go and protect and 14 serve the taxpayers of this community, and a special thank you 15 goes out to them for that, and Merry Christmas. The West 16 Texas County Judges and Commissioners Association, which I am 17 the president of, had a board meeting at the end of this last 18 week here, and I wanted you to know that everything is coming 19 together. For the public's information, in March '07, for 20 four days, we will have around 117 commissioners courts in 21 this community for education purposes. And one of the neat 22 things about the convention itself is they spend a lot of 23 money, and we're going to be real happy that they're here, and 24 there's all kinds of functions all over town. The hotels are 25 full, and we're real exited about them being here. So, just 12-11-06 8 1 wanted to bring you an update on that, and everything is 2 coming together finally at the very end. So, thank you for 3 your time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. And what 5 you didn't mention was that if there's anyone here today, or 6 folks that you know that might want to assist in that effort 7 with these children that are under foster care, you have that 8 opportunity to do so. You can see Ms. Banik after the 9 meeting, or any other member of the Child Service Board, and 10 I'm sure Commissioner Baldwin can put you in touch with them 11 if you want to assist in -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's cash, I'll handle it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that might be questionable. 14 (Laughter.) The other thing I'd like to do this morning is 15 offer some kudos to our District Clerk. The Attorney General 16 of Texas has -- has notified us that they are very thankful 17 for the efforts of our District Clerk and the assistance 18 provided with the child support program that the Attorney 19 General has in the state of Texas. And sometimes these 20 numbers scare you a little bit, but within the past year, 21 child support payments that went through the office of the 22 Attorney General with the assistance of our District Clerk 23 Linda Uecker are just under $3 million. So, that's a pretty 24 good number, and she's to be commended for the fine work that 25 she does in that area. We've got a lengthy agenda here, and 12-11-06 9 1 let's get on with it, if we could. 2 First item on the agenda is a report from our State 3 Senator Troy Fraser and discussion of matters that might be 4 considered in the upcoming legislative session. Senator 5 Fraser's with us here today, and I think he has some of his 6 staff members with him, and he'll possibly want to introduce 7 those to you so that as you have questions from his office, 8 you'll know who to get in touch with and -- and have your 9 discussion with. Senator Fraser, happy to have you here 10 today. 11 SENATOR FRASER: Thank you. Judge, Commissioners, 12 it's good to be in Kerrville this morning. We were commenting 13 as we were driving over this morning, the -- the hill country 14 was beautiful on the way over. It's going to be a wonderful 15 day here. And, Commissioner Baldwin, I would comment on your 16 comment about perfect government. Being from the people's 17 republic of Austin, we don't know a lot about perfect 18 government. I hope y'all have captured it over here, because, 19 obviously, they -- in Austin, we have -- we have trouble with 20 -- with that term. Judge and Commissioners, this -- every 21 year before we start a legislative session, I try to do a tour 22 of my district I represent. I think all of you know that I 23 have 21 counties that I represent, which implies 21 24 commissioners courts that we try to get in front of before 25 every legislative session. 12-11-06 10 1 But even, I think, more interesting than that is 2 that of the 690,000 people that I represent, there are 88 3 school districts. Every one of those areas, if there's a 4 school district, there's probably a town there. But there's 5 numerous communities that have incorporated cities like the -- 6 the area I'm from, there's three incorporated cities in my 7 county that -- that don't have a school district. So, there's 8 well in excess of 88 incorporated cities that I represent. 9 And so before we start the legislative session, I try to make 10 a tour of the district, and even though this has been -- you 11 know, you've had it on the docket as a report from me, really 12 what I'm trying to do is to listen to the constituents that I 13 represent, trying to figure out what issues we should be 14 looking at, and kind of get a report on the state of the -- 15 the state of Texas. 16 My -- I think my opening thoughts for you, just for 17 your information, is that the state of Texas right now, the 18 economy has been very, very good. Over the last -- more 19 especially the last few years, but the last decade, Texas 20 continues to be the fastest growing state in the nation. Our 21 economy continues to be very good. While a lot of the other 22 states in -- you know, states like California, where the real 23 estate market is starting to go down, we've stayed stable. 24 Sales tax collection has stayed very good. To kind of 25 validate that, I think you remember four years ago, when we 12-11-06 11 1 went into legislative session, we had a $10 billion deficit 2 going into session. We had to make some very tough decisions 3 at that time of cutting funding to avoid raising taxes. We 4 did that. We passed a balanced budget. 5 Four years later, not only has the economy 6 recovered, but it appears we're going to enter this 7 legislative session with, projected right now, maybe as much 8 as $15 billion that we'll have surplus going into the session. 9 Now, that's kind of good news and bad news. There -- you 10 know, the good news is we have the money. The bad news is 11 that we've got a line as long as, you know, you can see of 12 people standing with their hands out and wanting funding. But 13 a lot of the cuts that we have made probably we'll be able 14 to -- to reimplement, put back in place, and it's a -- it, 15 from a money standpoint, will be an equalization. From an 16 issue standpoint, I think you remember the last couple 17 sessions, we've had a crisis issue almost every session. Last 18 year we dealt with a judge controlling the -- the way we do 19 property taxes, you know, to finance our public schools. We 20 solved that issue, and it is going, the implementation of it. 21 But it appears there are no -- just -- very, very divisive 22 issues that will come before the Legislature. 23 Now, having said that, a couple of things that, when 24 I talk to commissioners courts, that I want input on. 25 We're -- the commissioners courts that we're talking to, most 12-11-06 12 1 of them continue to be concerned about issues that the 2 Legislature -- and it's always put to me as mandates without 3 funding, things like indigent defense. I think that's always 4 an issue. The indigent health care that -- that, you know, 5 impacts y'all. Water issues. We were visiting with 6 Commissioner Williams as we were walking up; I know y'all have 7 an issue that y'all talked about. Was it Flat -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Flat Rock. 9 SENATOR FRASER: Flat Rock Dam and creek, that I 10 know you're trying to decide what -- how to address that. Is 11 the dam unsafe, and what should you do potentially if -- if it 12 is a concern? And I made Commissioner Williams aware of the 13 fact that some -- sometimes the state, through Water 14 Development Board, has funding in -- in -- once you decide 15 what it is you plan to do with that and what the expense is, I 16 think it would be advisable to put that before the Water 17 Development Board and T.C.E.Q. to ask about available -- if 18 there are grants or funds available once you decide what you 19 want to do with that one. I think -- Judge, I think y'all are 20 probably like everyone else through the -- this part of Texas, 21 that this drought that we're having -- I did notice that the 22 Edwards Aquifer is still at a real healthy level, but a lot of 23 the other -- the water sources coming through the state of 24 Texas, more especially the Colorado and the Brazos River -- I 25 don't know whether y'all have driven by Lake Buchanan and Lake 12-11-06 13 1 Travis lately, but you can almost walk across them. 2 I think L.C.R.A. is going to make a declaration this 3 week that the lake is at the lowest level in the last 42 4 years. So, we are nearing a 50-year drought level on those 5 lakes. And it reminds us that over the next 50 years, you 6 know, all the battles out through here is going to be fought 7 over water; you know, that we're -- we need to continue every 8 legislative session to be talking about water. I think this 9 time they're going to be addressing again trying to look at -- 10 at groundwater, the needs of the state, and trying to make 11 sure that -- I'm promoting trying to build new reservoirs. I 12 would like to see us add several new reservoirs where we dam 13 up water, because once the water goes downstream, dumped into 14 the gulf, we lose access to that water, and I would -- I would 15 encourage us to continue to try to keep the water upstream as 16 much as possible. 17 From an electrical standpoint, I understand that 18 y'all have an issue involving a power line that I think 19 there's probably some controversy about, that, as you know, 20 the declarations on power transmission come from ERCOT, which 21 is our reliability provider that distributes the electricity 22 across the state. They've identified that there's a problem 23 through this area, transmission -- that there's a need for a 24 transmission line. And I think, as y'all know, the 25 controversy is, where is it going to be? Is it going to be 12-11-06 14 1 above ground or below ground? And we've sent our request in 2 to ERCOT that -- kind of outlining the wishes, we think, of 3 the local people to look at. But that's -- you know, the 4 power line issue, interestingly, you've got one here; we've 5 got one going through Salado along Interstate 35, close to 6 Temple. And these are -- with the growth of the state, in 7 order to insure power supply, ERCOT has to make sure that 8 there are transmission lines to make sure that we have the 9 ability to move power from one area of the state to the other. 10 So, could I just open up, I guess, for questions or things, 11 Judge or Commissioners, that y'all would -- would you like 12 to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one. 14 SENATOR FRASER: Yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Troy, thank you for being 16 here today, and thank you for your service representing us at 17 our state level of government. A couple of years ago, we -- 18 this Court voted to freeze the taxes on the elderly and 19 disabled, and we did that. It didn't go to referendum; no one 20 pushed us into it. We did it on our very own, because we felt 21 like that that's what the taxpayers wanted. That -- I still 22 don't think that we know what kind of ding that is going to 23 put on our budget yet, but I think it makes good -- 24 hardworking people can figure this thing out and make it work. 25 But when -- with that in place, and the City doing the same 12-11-06 15 1 thing, and then you all coming along and talking about capping 2 appraisals, I don't -- I just don't see that that is a fair 3 thing to us. I think that we're very capable of handling all 4 of our own local issues of funding and revenues and that kind 5 of thing that we -- personally, I just don't think we need the 6 State's help on that issue. I may be in the minority on that 7 here in Kerr County, but I just think that -- that's one 8 issue, and I think these guys will probably get to other 9 things, but appraisal caps, I think, should be left to -- left 10 to us. I don't want y'all to cap the appraisal prices. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I could add one thing to 12 that, part of the problem on the appraisal side -- and you 13 know the system, but it's -- we have local, and every county 14 has local appraisal boards, then you have the Comptroller's 15 office coming in and, if anything, pushing the appraisals 16 higher. That's what has happened in this area. I mean, if 17 there's an appraisal problem, I think that is something that 18 the Legislature can look at much more than putting a cap -- I 19 mean, I think that there is a lot of push, because, you know, 20 the school funding and everything gets based on what the 21 Comptroller's numbers are. We have a two-appraisal system, 22 and that just doesn't make sense. Let the Comptroller do it 23 or let it be done locally; preferably locally, but I think 24 it's -- the Comptroller's office is what's pushing it, not 25 local -- you know, more than the local appraisal districts 12-11-06 16 1 push it. 2 SENATOR FRASER: The appraisal -- appraisal cap, tax 3 cap, revenue cap issue is kind of a common theme that I've 4 heard every commissioners court that we visited. And the -- 5 the response to that is kind of -- you know, I'm -- I'm very 6 aware of the fact that if we handcuff the locals, where it 7 removes your ability for flexibility, that, you know, we're -- 8 that's not the thing to do. I'm also very aware of the fact 9 that I think we have appraisal caps or have revenue caps in 10 place right now, and it's called an election; that every two 11 years, we have an election. If people don't agree with what 12 you're doing, they have the right to vote you out. Now, 13 having said that, some -- some of the -- Judge, the -- the 14 concern over this issue, a lot of it is coming from the fact 15 that we just had an election cycle. We had a governor's race, 16 and that's one of the things that was talked about. Also, the 17 fact that this is not a Kerr County or a Kerrville issue; this 18 is a Dallas-Houston issue. It's being driven by the suburbs 19 in Dallas and Houston, and the reality is, is if they -- they 20 have enough votes in the Legislature; if they want to vote 21 something through, it's likely that they're going to be able 22 to do it. 23 So, it's -- even if I commit to you today that 24 we're -- Harvey and I are absolutely going to fight it and 25 nothing's going to happen, we're two of 181. And this issue I 12-11-06 17 1 don't think is going to go away. I think it's going to 2 continue to be here. And here -- here's the things I would 3 urge you to at least be aware of, that the thing that's 4 interesting with this is the -- this is the tenth meeting 5 we've had on this tour. About half of those were with elected 6 officials; about half of them were with the general public. 7 So, depending on the group we're with, it depends on the 8 response we have. If we're with elected officials, they say 9 don't handcuff us, don't do any caps. Give us our 10 flexibility. If I'm with groups that are paying taxes, they 11 say, you know, put a cap on them. You've got to save us from 12 the elected officials. And so it's -- I'm -- I guess the 13 message I would project to you is, we've got to make sure 14 we're listening to the people that elected us, because we're 15 -- it's really an unusual issue, and I'll give you a couple of 16 examples. San Saba, Texas, a very rural community, very 17 small. I just didn't even anticipate that that issue would be 18 -- would come up, because I didn't think they were having 19 appraisal caps -- or appraisal creep. What's happening is, 20 people are going in and buying small ranchettes, 15, 20 acres, 21 and they're just paying whatever -- you know, they don't -- 22 almost don't care what they pay. And what's happened is, the 23 ag values -- even people that have ag -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exemptions. 25 SENATOR FRASER: -- exemption, it's more than 12-11-06 18 1 doubled their local taxes on their ag value because of the 2 appraisal value of the property around them. We've heard this 3 repeatedly in every city we've gone to. And I think the 4 concern is not as much on the appraisal value; it's on the 5 total revenue that's generated by that. And I think what I'm 6 hearing from the public, there's compromise here somewhere. 7 They're saying as -- and, realistically, this is not about the 8 commissioners court. This is about school taxes. School 9 taxes, because they're basically -- you know, even though they 10 vote the amount, the -- the rate is virtually set by the 11 state, and as property values go up, if you're paying $1.50 12 school tax, the -- the amount of taxes for school districts 13 are three or four times what counties are, so if anything is 14 done, this is a move to try to -- to adjust that. 15 So, I guess what I'm telling you is multiple things. 16 There is a compromise there. There's not going to -- if there 17 is some type of cap, I don't think it'll be an appraisal cap. 18 I don't think it'll be a tax cap. It would likely be a 19 revenue cap. I don't think it will be 3 percent. I think 20 right now, instead of being 10 or 8, it might be 7 or 6 or 21 something like that. So, it's likely that this issue will not 22 go away. But I would urge you, we've got to make sure we're 23 listening to the constituents that we represent; that they're 24 looking for some relief to insure that their taxes don't 25 continue to go up. 12-11-06 19 1 And I'll leave you with this thought. The community 2 that I live in, I've watched the appraisal in our area, and 3 I've watched the taxes, and my taxes have gone up 10 percent 4 every year for the last four or five years. And I don't think 5 the area I live in is unique. And I'm -- I'm listening to the 6 people that -- of the 690,000 people, they're saying, you 7 know, we need some help. Taxes are going up at a higher rate 8 than the -- the -- taxes are going up higher than inflation. 9 And the -- so, I guess, Commissioner, in response to your 10 question, I'm -- I'm sympathetic to where you are, and I don't 11 think Kerr County and the Commissioners Court here is what 12 this is about, but this issue is not likely to go away. I 13 think it's going to be there, and I -- that's -- just because 14 it's being driven by Dallas and Houston. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Before we get off the issue -- that 16 issue, the mandatory disclosure of sales prices, wouldn't that 17 have a material effect on -- on how that's -- how that shakes 18 out? 19 SENATOR FRASER: Probably would, yes. And that -- 20 that, as you know, is controversial. I mean, you know, that 21 has been attempted to be addressed numerous times, and yes, it 22 would impact it. But there's very opinionated people on both 23 sides of that issue. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- on that issue, sort of, 25 but on an unfunded mandate type issue, there's one that was -- 12-11-06 20 1 you know, you mentioned the obvious ones, indigent defense, 2 indigent health care, but there's some that are really sneaky 3 also, and those are the ones that really -- where we need your 4 help, I think, as much as anything. And I can't remember what 5 state representative, but one of them recently had a big press 6 announcement that they wanted to find out what the cost of 7 illegal aliens was to the state, you know, through the, you 8 know, schools, jails, everything, through the whole system. 9 And it's -- because of legislation to make everyone keep track 10 of that, that's a good unfunded mandate, in my mind, 'cause 11 it's going to mean that the Sheriff's Department and Indigent 12 Health Care department, all -- every other governmental entity 13 in the county and school districts and the city are going to 14 have to figure out a mechanism to do that. So, there's a cost 15 that goes with -- I mean, I think it's a great idea. I think 16 it's something we should do. 17 SENATOR FRASER: One of those concepts that probably 18 we need to know, but there is a cost associated with it. The 19 State's not going to furnish you the money. It's a little bit 20 like the -- the election machines issue, is that the federal 21 government, in their wisdom, told us that we need to get rid 22 of paper ballots and come up with electronic, and supposedly 23 they were going to send us the money for it. But what we're 24 figuring out is the money is not there, especially in smaller 25 communities. And we're -- we're hearing horror stories in 12-11-06 21 1 small areas, and I go back to the appraisal cap issue. There 2 -- if there was an election that was being forced because of 3 the appraisal issue, it's likely that the cost of the election 4 would -- would be -- would be more than the amount of savings 5 from the -- the increase. So, it's -- the cost of elections 6 is another issue we're hearing a lot of. But I -- I agree 7 with you that that's one that, if the State wants the counties 8 and the locals to do this, they've got to figure out a way to 9 fund it. It's another well-intentioned thought that has a lot 10 of consequences that are -- that are tough locally. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got one more. I'll switch 12 to my -- I'm also chair of Region J, and I'll wear that hat 13 for a second. One of the -- the Legislature came up with a 14 regional water plan process, which seems like a good process 15 to me. Then they come up with the G.M.A. process, groundwater 16 management areas. Then you have all the local water 17 districts. I see everyone -- I see lots of problems 18 developing there. I mean, you have -- I know in one county in 19 the region I chair, you had the local people came up with a 20 water availability; in Kinney County, I'm sure you're aware. 21 That number came through Region J, yet it came through local 22 people from Kinney County on our board. Then it goes to the 23 state, gets approved by the Legislature, gets approved. Now 24 the same people down in Kinney County are saying that the 25 Legislature and Water Development Board approved that number. 12-11-06 22 1 Well, yeah, but it came -- I mean, there's a problem I see 2 there in the way some of these numbers are being used by local 3 entities now. I also see a real problem with the G.M.A. 4 process. I don't understand that, how the groundwater 5 management areas are supposed to come up with these desired 6 feature conditions -- topic, or how you define that. Why 7 can't that be left to the water districts locally? I mean, it 8 seems like there was a big push to get local water districts. 9 Then, all of a sudden, there was a push to do the G.M.A.'s, 10 and doing it more regionally. Then you have the regional 11 water planning process. It seems there's not a lot of thought 12 given by the Legislature as to get a direction and keep it 13 going. I mean, if -- and I'm of the opinion that if the 14 G.M.A. process is going to be the one to decide groundwater, 15 let them do it, but take it out of the regional water planning 16 process. It doesn't make sense for different groups to be 17 spending a lot of time on these. 18 SENATOR FRASER: And, Commissioner, you've -- 19 actually, you've outlined, you know, the exact problem, is 20 that even though the groundwater issue -- I think everybody's 21 preference is to handle it locally. And in most cases, if 22 your -- if the groundwater district is over an aquifer, and 23 that aquifer doesn't communicate with other areas, it really 24 is a local asset. But in the wisdom of the state, the state 25 is trying to create a -- a statewide look for long-term 12-11-06 23 1 planning. Which is -- I mean, an easy argument could be made 2 for that, but the reality is, is that it is a local issue on 3 groundwater. Surface water is a little bit different issue, 4 simply because the surface water communicates -- does move. 5 So, there's -- there's going to be another effort this year 6 for another water plan. The thing that was controversial last 7 year is they tried to come up with a revenue stream, which 8 means there's a kind of fee attached to water in order to 9 develop a revenue stream to help the with some of the -- the 10 problems we're having statewide. I continue to oppose that, 11 because I just -- I don't want local -- taxes put on local 12 water if we can keep from it. 13 So I think, in response to your question, I would 14 prefer letting the groundwater districts, as long as they are 15 independent, solve their problems as much as possible, then 16 advise the state of what they're doing, but not have to ask 17 permission, you know, for what they're doing. Now, the 18 exception to that, though, and the one that concerns us is 19 when you have a Boone Pickens type issue where he's going into 20 an area buying up water, trying to move that, put it in the 21 Brazos River, float it downstream and sell it to someone else. 22 So, when water from a groundwater district starts leaving the 23 area, we've got to make sure that the state -- if there's a 24 problem there, we have the ability to address it to protect 25 the locals. And that -- that is one, you know, case where the 12-11-06 24 1 rule of capture -- people have a right to do what they want 2 with their water, but if it starts damaging the local, you 3 know, area -- and in that case, we were concerned that the 4 financial strength of the people selling the water was going 5 to be greater than the groundwater district, and if they start 6 suing each other, the guy with the most money would win, which 7 wasn't the groundwater district. And that's the concern of 8 where you need the same agenda. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Senator, in the past you've 10 been a leader and in the forefront on legislation regulating 11 quarrying and mining activities. I know you've had a lot of 12 those issues in Burnet County where you reside, all up and 13 down the 281 corridor, and on the Brazos River corridor. We 14 have some issues here in Kerr County on the Guadalupe River 15 corridor, and I'm wondering what, if any, legislation there 16 might be possible this year coming out of the Legislature that 17 would tighten up some of the regulations or perhaps give 18 T.C.E.Q. some additional tools to work with with respect to 19 mining operations. Now, some of the issues that face people, 20 and they don't understand, it's not the fact that -- that 21 mining is legal and somebody that owns a piece of property has 22 the right to mine, but the fact that -- that a mine can be -- 23 a piece of property can be mined out, and the mine operator 24 move on and leave a humungous hole in the ground, which 25 becomes a problem for everybody in the neighborhood. And I'm 12-11-06 25 1 just wondering whether or not you have any plans on this 2 particular issue, and if so, what might they be? 3 SENATOR FRASER: Well, as you know, this was a 4 pretty major battle last session. I would like to say that I 5 was totally victorious, but I wasn't. They turned out to be a 6 very worthy opponent. But the issue has not gone away; it 7 continues to be there. And you've outlined numerous ones of 8 the problem, and really, Commissioner, the big problem from 9 the state perspective is that these mines, before they start, 10 can present a plan, get a permit to operate, and once that 11 permit is issued, nobody ever goes out to check and see if 12 they're staying within the terms of the permit. And it's just 13 not -- you know, these quarries are not -- quarries and 14 crushers are not kept up with by the state. And, as you said, 15 the reclamation process, that's one that we talked a lot 16 about, and that, you know, at some point we've got to address. 17 Because, as you say, they can be -- they can leave an area 18 on -- on land, and it becomes other people's problems. But 19 the answer is yes, we will continue working on that one, but 20 it's a -- it is a huge problem trying to solve that and get 21 more regulatory effort. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My final comment is, I know that 23 one of our neighboring counties is pushing to get more 24 authority for county governments such as ordinance making, 25 things of that nature. Just for the record, this Commissioner 12-11-06 26 1 is opposed to that. We don't need any more than we have. 2 SENATOR FRASER: Well, the word -- I keep telling 3 the county courts, be careful what you ask for. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 5 SENATOR FRASER: There are -- and, you know, a -- 6 Menard County has had a real problem with these colonias 7 coming in; that somebody will set it up, a development fails, 8 they leave it, and then the County has to take care of it. If 9 you have ordinance-making authority that we give to the 10 courts, there is a cost associated with that, and it's -- you 11 know, there are a lot of times it's good to have that, but 12 once you get that, it costs you money to do it, and you're 13 setting up another level of county government. I think I 14 agree with you, Commissioner, that I -- be real careful what 15 you ask for. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have -- I have one more 20 thing. I'm going to go back to the -- to the caps issue just 21 one time. With all the things that y'all have passed down to 22 us, the unfunded mandates, we're talking about the district 23 courts, and -- there's something humming, or am I the only one 24 hearing that? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 12-11-06 27 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of scary. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Freezing the taxes, capping, 4 and unfunded mandates, that just really makes it difficult for 5 local government to -- to do things. But here's my wish list. 6 If I could -- if I could choose one thing that I'd ask you to 7 put funding back in, it would be to -- the ability to hire 8 visiting district judges. It just affects the entire system 9 when we can't run our jail people, our prisoners, the jails 10 all over the state. You know that better than I do, how 11 packed they are and the problems that we're having and that. 12 And if we had visiting judges -- ability to hire more visiting 13 judges and bring them in, we can -- it just -- all kinds of 14 things happen. That relieves pressure from county government. 15 That's my request. 16 SENATOR FRASER: Well, and I'll address the first 17 issue again. There -- I want to be clear with this Court. 18 I'm not saying that there will be caps. I'm saying there is a 19 movement to do that, and we've got to be careful listening to 20 that. Unfunded mandates, I don't think it's ever the 21 intention that the State should do that. I continue to say 22 I'm opposed to it, but every session there's something that 23 happens like this that comes down. And the issue you're 24 talking about, the visiting judge issue, again, is a 25 Dallas-Houston issue, is that there was abuses in those areas 12-11-06 28 1 where elected officials were basically sloughing off their 2 duty behind other people, and that you ended up hearing most 3 of the cases in front of a nonelected official rather than an 4 elected official that was responsible to the voters. And it's 5 one of those issues that we continue to try to -- to address 6 and make sure that we're addressing the needs. But also, I 7 don't think it's -- the concern is that if you have too many 8 visiting judges, it can be abused, and you end up, every -- 9 every case is heard before someone that's not accountable to 10 the voters, and that's the argument. You know, whether it's a 11 valid argument or not, that's the argument that is made. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is a -- that is a bad 13 argument as far as Kerr County is concerned. 14 SENATOR FRASER: And again, Buster, I don't -- most 15 of the things we talk about are not Kerr County issues. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 17 SENATOR FRASER: Has nothing to do with this. But 18 the reality is, Dallas and Houston drive the legislation that 19 happens, because they have the votes to pass it. And most of 20 the time -- my time in the Legislature's been in defense, 21 trying to make sure they're not going to pass something that 22 will -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 24 SENATOR FRASER: -- in any way hurt the counties 25 that I represent. And so I -- you know, there was someone at 12-11-06 29 1 one point called me Dr. No because I voted no more than yes, 2 trying to vote against things that hurt my district. And 3 I'm -- my philosophy in government is of limited government. 4 I wish we would pass a law saying you can't put a new law on 5 the books until you take one off. (Laughter.) And I would 6 rather they just leave us alone, let us handle it locally if 7 we can. But the issue you talked about is something that was 8 a problem in another area that we got stuck with the 9 consequences. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. Thank you very 11 much. 12 SENATOR FRASER: Any other questions? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 14 SENATOR FRASER: Judge, thank you. As we -- yes, 15 sir? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have one question, Senator. 17 And what my problem -- part of them has alluded to it, but 18 it's the mental health issues and the jails. Is there 19 anything that's going to start being done about that? The 20 reason I say that is 'cause we all know the state hospitals 21 are filling up with forensics, and there is a law on the book 22 that says jails are not supposed to house mental people, but 23 yet jails are forced to. And then last year, M.H.M.R., who 24 was helping foot the bill for some of these for prescriptions, 25 the state M.H.M.R. decided that now the jails can all foot 12-11-06 30 1 those bills. And yet we have to take them to the State 2 Hospital for their psychiatric evaluations and their deal, and 3 then the State Hospital doctors write the prescriptions and 4 the county jails have to pay it. And that came up real strong 5 with me last week, 'cause I had one female that had that 6 assessment done, and the State Hospital doctors wrote a 7 prescription that we don't have a choice but pay, and it was 8 four pills for $2,258. That's coming out of our deal, because 9 they aren't indigent. 10 SENATOR FRASER: Which is mandate. Now, they -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which is mandate. We don't 12 have a choice put to pay, and that's -- my prescription, my 13 medical this year is probably going to go higher than it's 14 ever been, by over 100,000. 15 SENATOR FRASER: This is an issue that we're -- we 16 need to address. And it's actually -- there's three or four 17 problems here. The state hospitals, the total number of 18 patients at state hospitals is about a third of what they used 19 to be. A lot of people that should be residents of state 20 hospitals are on the street, and a lot of them end up in jails 21 because there's nowhere else to put them, and then they have 22 the ability to pass that expense to you. So, I think you -- 23 we're back into the -- first of all, making sure that we're 24 not saddling the -- you know, your office with expense that 25 you shouldn't be. So, we're -- I think it's a -- the first 12-11-06 31 1 thing is looking at the flow of money, but it's a bigger 2 problem than that, in that the federal government has told us 3 you can't hold someone against their will, and unless they or 4 the family are willing to -- you know, to admit themselves, 5 you can't hold them at a state hospital. And that was a 6 change in federal law in the early 90's, that -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, but what's happening is 8 then they're ending up in jails, and we are holding them 9 against their will -- 10 SENATOR FRASER: You are holding them. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- for things that they really 12 shouldn't be there. 13 SENATOR FRASER: So, it goes back to the expense 14 mechanism. If we're going to basically mandate that you have 15 to do that, and someone else has the opportunity to pass that 16 expense, the State has to be willing to -- to pay that, 'cause 17 it is a state expense. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But they did just the opposite; 19 they mandated we house them, then they came back and said 20 they're not paying. 21 SENATOR FRASER: And this falls a little bit under 22 the category four years ago, when we had the budget deficit, 23 the State tried to cut expense, and in order to cut the 24 expense, they pushed the expense down on the county court. 25 We're -- we need to reverse a lot of that. So, these issues, 12-11-06 32 1 if we -- my chief of staff, Janice McCoy is back here, Daniel 2 Womack and Mel, my local guy for this area. If you'll 3 continue to talk to them, make sure that we're aware of these, 4 and we'll -- we'll do what we can to try to address that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. We appreciate you 7 being here. We look forward to working with you in the 8 upcoming session. Thank you for your service. 9 SENATOR FRASER: As things come forward, you know, 10 the County Judges Association meets regularly in Austin, and 11 when y'all are having a meeting I need to sit in on a meeting, 12 because the appraisal cap issue is a huge issue to the -- the 13 Judges and Commissioners Association. I'm not -- it's not a 14 deaf ear at all; I'm just telling you that this is one we need 15 to -- you know, we need to continue to work, cut our losses 16 and make sure we don't do anything that -- that restricts 17 y'all's ability, Buster, to do what you're doing. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda; 23 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to amend 24 contract with Kerr County Market Association. I placed this 25 on the agenda at the request of the principals with the Kerr 12-11-06 33 1 County Market Association. Essentially, they're asking two 2 things on contract amendments. I don't know whether these 3 matters have been staffed with the County Attorney or not. 4 They're -- they're not -- they're specific factual items. I 5 don't think the legality of the contract would be affected, 6 other than to add these two items. Ms. Anderson? 7 MS. ANDERSON: Good morning. Judge, Commissioners, 8 thank you for a few minutes of your time. I'll try to be 9 very, very brief. This -- 2007 will be the sixth year for 10 Kerr County Market Days. We have a couple of slight 11 modifications we'd like to make to our operation. The first 12 is that we would like to hold our opening date on the fourth 13 Saturday of March instead of the fourth Saturday of April, the 14 reason for that being that April -- late in April just puts us 15 way behind the curve with everybody else, and it puts us way 16 too late for people to come and buy their garden plants. We 17 have a lot of folks that want to come and sell homegrown 18 plants, and it's -- end of April is just a little past the 19 planting season for that sort of thing. So, we'd like to get 20 in there on the fourth Saturday of March. The second item 21 that we'd like to change for 2007, we've had a number of 22 requests from our vendors, and we frequently have customers, 23 when they come to the market on that Memorial Day weekend, 24 that they say, "You all are going to be here tomorrow, right?" 25 And we all say, "No, we're only here on Saturday." So, we 12-11-06 34 1 would like to try in 2007 to have a two-day event on Memorial 2 Day weekend only. The market has grown. This has been a very 3 good year. We have the ability to fund overnight security, 4 and -- for our vendors, and we think this could be a very 5 positive thing for the overall well-being and growth of Kerr 6 County Market Days. Those are the two things that we're 7 asking of you. And the third thing that I -- I mentioned in 8 my letter to Judge Tinley is that we'd like to give something 9 back to the County. We would like to donate a bench to be 10 placed on the courthouse grounds. The bench that we have 11 looked at and would propose to purchase for the County is one 12 that's very, very much like those that are already out there. 13 I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference between the 14 new one and the ones already there, except on this bench we'd 15 like to have some plaques. The first would say. "Thanks, 16 Glenn," for all the help that we received from Mr. Holekamp 17 through all the time that -- well, from the very first day in 18 2002. Then it would say, "Kerr County Market Days." And then 19 we'd like to add some very small plaques with the names of 20 some of the vendors who've been participants with the Market 21 Days and who have since passed away. We'd like to just have 22 your approval to do that and place that bench here at the 23 courthouse. Be happy to answer any questions. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question 25 about the bench. Is -- you say it looks like these green ones 12-11-06 35 1 that sit out here? 2 MS. ANDERSON: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where do you envision putting 4 that bench? 5 MS. ANDERSON: This is something that I had -- I had 6 talked to Glenn about, and we hadn't -- had not really come to 7 a specific site. He and I had sort of thought, well, it might 8 be good here or there, but we're certainly open to having it 9 placed wherever. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it -- does it -- would it 11 require -- Tim, would it require a concrete pad? 12 MR. BOLLIER: It'd be better like that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe if we took -- removed 14 the birdhouse. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have a problem with 16 the birdhouse. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor the bench, but I 18 think we need a plan as to how -- I'd like to see a plan 19 before we start putting anything out there. 20 MS. ANDERSON: Certainly. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a comment about 22 your -- your proposal to expand on the Memorial Day weekend 23 from Saturday to Sunday. I think it's an excellent idea. 24 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because, as you know, the 12-11-06 36 1 town is full of people who are here for the Texas Arts and 2 Crafts Fair, and the more opportunities that we give them to 3 leave Kerr County a little greener I think is a good deal. 4 MS. ANDERSON: Well, we also have some vendors who 5 will be making motel reservations so they can stay for those 6 two days also. We thought that might be an additional small 7 benefit. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have any information on 9 what your average weekend sales are when you're open? 10 MS. ANDERSON: I can tell you -- I don't have a 11 dollar amount, no, but I can tell you that they've been quite 12 good this year. Even though we essentially cut our schedule 13 in half this year, this has possibly been the very best year 14 we've ever had. In terms of vendor days, as well as just word 15 of mouth from our vendors in terms of their sales, it's been a 16 very good year. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I guess they wouldn't come 18 back if they weren't selling something. 19 MS. ANDERSON: That's right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson, on the proposed changes, 21 other than making provision for security and whatever else may 22 be necessary for logistical purposes on the overnight, the 23 two-day'er, do you see any problems with these amendments? 24 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to make a motion 12-11-06 37 1 to amend the contract with Kerr County Market Association as 2 outlined in LuAnn Anderson's letter to the County Judge, 3 subject to the approval as to form by the County Attorney, and 4 that we accept the offer of the donation of a bench for the 5 courthouse grounds. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, would you also 7 add in there that they are to get with the Maintenance 8 supervisor to -- for placement? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Proper location? 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that motion. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 14 indicated. Any questions or discussion on the motion? All in 15 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you 20 very much, Ms. Anderson. 21 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate the work that you're 23 doing. 24 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to the next item on the 12-11-06 38 1 agenda, if we might. Consider and approve a resolution 2 recommending that the Texas Department of Transportation fund 3 a project to raise the Cade Loop Bridge in lieu of funding the 4 projects to reconstruct various low-water crossings in west 5 Kerr County. Commissioner Nicholson. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll read the resolution 7 first. "Whereas, the Texas Department of Transportation 8 (TexDOT) has a mission of providing safe, effective, and 9 efficient movement of people and goods; and whereas, TexDOT 10 has goals to reduce congestion, and enhance safety on Texas 11 roads; and whereas, TexDOT has a strategy to empower local and 12 regional leaders to solve local and regional transportation 13 problems; and whereas, TexDOT plans to construct seven 14 low-water bridges on Highway 39 and F.M. 1340 in Kerr County; 15 and whereas, the construction of these bridges will not 16 resolve mobility problems during flood events and will have an 17 adverse impact on the Guadalupe River environment; and 18 whereas, the low-water bridge on the river at Cade Loop off 19 Highway 39 is a major barrier to mobility during a flood 20 event, threatening the health and safety of thousands of 21 residents and campers whose sole route of egress is the Cade 22 Loop Bridge; and whereas, TexDOT's mission and goals to reduce 23 congestion and enhance safety will be best achieved by 24 construction of an off-system bridge on Cade Loop to provide 25 for mobility during a flood event; Now, therefore, be it 12-11-06 39 1 resolved that the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, Texas, 2 urges the Department -- the Texas Department of Transportation 3 to abandon its plans for the reconstruction of seven low-water 4 bridges on Highway 39 and F.M. 1340, and to redirect those and 5 other funds as may be required to reconstruct and raise the 6 Cade Loop Bridge." 7 All that said, it's -- it's simply a resolution that 8 says the projects to reconstruct or construct seven bridges on 9 13 -- Highway 39 and 1340 will not have much of an impact on 10 emergency mobility during a flood event, but will have an 11 adverse impact on the environment of the river, and that they 12 can do some good, can achieve their mission and goals by 13 helping us provide access and egress on the Cade Loop Bridge. 14 I wanted to ask Mr. Jim Evans to -- to provide his thoughts on 15 the matter. Mr. Evans, by the way, lives on 1340, and his 16 route to H.E.B. would be to cross all seven of these -- these 17 bridges, if they were built. 18 MR. EVANS: Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Your Honor. 19 I'm here today to express my concern and opposition. I would 20 like to read a written statement I have here in opposition to 21 the proposed bridge reconstruction on 39 and 1340 and in 22 western Kerr County. That portion of the Guadalupe River, 23 both the north and the south fork that begins and traverses 24 our county, is indeed a state jewel and a nonrenewable 25 treasure. It is greatly different from the large muddy rivers 12-11-06 40 1 where I grew up in east Texas. The Guadalupe is a delicate 2 little old lady. It at times can barely get around. Many -- 3 and in many places, one can easily jump across the small, 4 trickling, clear stream. At other times, she can be a 5 forbidding monster. Our forefathers chose wisely their 6 crossing points, eventually building what became our low-water 7 bridges. Low-water bridges, however, are of the most 8 efficient, safest, inexpensive, and least impacting on the 9 environment of all bridges built. 10 In the name of progress, modern engineers have built 11 larger bridges, but not necessarily better bridges. Yes, 12 there are limitations, restrictions, and common sense required 13 in the use of low-water bridges. Like riding a horse, you 14 need to know a little more than "whoa" and "go." You don't 15 ride a horse half asleep, DUI, DWI, or 90 miles an hour. 16 There will be accidents on any horse, and certainly any bridge 17 ever built. A 28-inch guardrail, called a PGR, is not going 18 to keep a horse or a 90-mile-an-hour motorcycle from going 19 into the river when riding carelessly or irresponsibly. At 20 best, the PGR will only catch logs and debris during a rise in 21 the river. Low-water bridges allow logs and debris to be 22 swept across and over and away from the roadway, thus 23 minimizing upstream flooding. 24 Your Honor, our Highway Department has proposed 25 reconstruction of several low-water bridges near Hunt. The 12-11-06 41 1 following are some of my objections and concerns. First of 2 all, I believe the work is unnecessary. There is little wrong 3 with the bridges we have, but there may be various impairments 4 to some of the people using those bridges. Yes, they could 5 have been better designed in the beginning, but what TexDOT is 6 proposing now is really not much better. True, our excess 7 during minimal floods may be improved, but not during major 8 floods. Ask anyone who lives in the area if minimal floods 9 are a problem, and they will tell you they have learned to 10 live with such small inconvenience. The advent of Lifeflight 11 has even assisted our medical emergency facilities. 12 The environmental impact of this work would greatly 13 affect our delicate river and its surroundings. There is not 14 one crossing in the proposed work that could be done without 15 cutting trees, beautiful cypress trees, some 15 to 20 feet in 16 circumference. Accessible recreational areas used for 17 generations by visitors and guests would be reduced, and in 18 some cases eliminated. The mean water level in the river 19 could be changed and devastate many trees which are sensitive 20 to their proximity to water. Any change in the mean water 21 level would affect many private, beautiful waterfront 22 pavilions, piers, picnic facilities. The most difficult to 23 predict would be the effect of larger bridges restricting 24 water flow during severe and major rain events. This would, 25 in turn, definitely affect the size of our floodplain. 12-11-06 42 1 Whether it be the 5-year floodplain, 10-year floodplain, or 2 100-year floodplain, I don't know. Such a prediction is not 3 an exact science, and as the people of New Orleans know very 4 well, engineers sometimes underestimate the vigor and strength 5 of Mother Nature. 6 Raising the level and span of bridges using a 7 similar type construction to that used at Waldemar and Quinn 8 Crossings on 1340 would certainly enlarge to some extent the 9 floodplain on the upstream side of these structures. 10 Property, facilities, and even homes could be affected. 11 Changes in insurance rates, even appraised values could occur. 12 One good -- excuse me. One good example we're all familiar 13 with is Mr. Alan Sheppard's house at Stonehenge on 1340, just 14 upstream from Mayhew Crossing. I'm sure there are many others 15 that could be affected. The impact to modern bridges on the 16 aesthetic beauty -- beautiful rural countryside would be 17 considerable. Although the Waldemar and Quinn bridges are 18 very handsome structures, they detract greatly from the 19 ambience and tranquility of two of the most beautiful river 20 crossings in Texas. They simply do not fit western Kerr 21 County. Maybe Riverhills, maybe some suburb in Dallas, but 22 not in Hunt. Low-water bridges would have certainly been more 23 beautiful, especially with 3 or 4 inches of water running 24 across the road. 25 Your Honor, we have all seen to what unnecessary 12-11-06 43 1 extreme and extravagance TexDOT can go to installing posted 2 guide rails between Ingram and Hunt. I can only imagine what 3 they might do with our bridges. Their use of eminent domain 4 to straighten out curves will definitely be distasteful to the 5 property owners. We definitely don't want to follow the likes 6 of Highway 46 between New Braunfels and Boerne, and may God 7 forbid TexDOT ever touching Willow City Loop. Perhaps the 8 funds could be used elsewhere, like Cade Loop or others. I 9 thank you for your time, and may God bless our river. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good job. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Evans talked about 14 one-half of the formula that's being proposed. Johnny Hawkins 15 is here that can talk about the need for access and egress to 16 the -- on Cade Loop during a flood event. I think y'all know 17 that Cade Loop crossing is a low-water crossing immediately 18 downstream from the Ingram Dam. Some of the environmental 19 issues that we're concerned about with the -- with the other 20 crossings would not be present here because of the dam and 21 because of the nature of the river during the 100-year area. 22 It's mostly -- mostly what would be affected is our trash 23 trees. Mr. Hawkins? 24 MR. HAWKINS: First off, I want to say thank y'all 25 and Merry Christmas. I agree a lot with what the gentleman 12-11-06 44 1 said on the bridges up above. And -- and our thing is, is 2 there at camp, we do have Camp Rio Vista and Sierra Vista. We 3 have two areas coming in, and one of them, as you know, water 4 runs over all the time, and I can talk about that one in a 5 minute. And the other one is the bridge below the dam on Cade 6 Loop, and it's really just kind of a dump down there. It's -- 7 you know, the trees are dead, and the force of the water and 8 everything, they're broken over, and it would be a very easy 9 place to build a bridge. Very little easement, and I think 10 it's a place that could really make it better. Cade Loop, 20 11 years ago when it flooded, we had two people come to camp to 12 get a can of pork and beans. Nobody worried about it. And 13 now there's two huge subdivisions back there. There's 14 hundreds of people of that live back there, and don't realize 15 what the river does and how mean it gets down there. 16 And we have, there at camp, actually been stuck when 17 the north fork and the south fork both come up; they're 18 channeled down there, and actually the bridge below the dam, 19 to me, is another dam, and it has an 8-foot opening, so all 20 the water from the north and south fork are channeled there to 21 one small opening. If a tree blocks that opening up, we have 22 been flooded in three days before they could get down there 23 and get that tree out. Three days, personally, doesn't bother 24 me a whole lot; I got a commissary full of food, but new 25 people coming to this area are freaked out to be flooded out. 12-11-06 45 1 They absolutely don't know what to do. And I can stand here 2 and tell you stories forever about people trying to cross the 3 river. 4 We had -- actually had a closing two years ago that 5 was flooded, and we had 1,000 parents on the other side of the 6 river, and we set up a deal at school, and I had people on the 7 phone and -- and they came out and said, "Johnny, I think you 8 better take care of this one." And I went in there, and it 9 was a mother that had been with us for five years and knew all 10 about camp, and she said, "Johnny, my husband is fixing to 11 walk across the bridge to get my child." And I said, "Please 12 don't do that. We are coming in. You don't know how long 13 you're going to be flooded in." And I finally had to -- and I 14 could hear her talking to her husband. I said, you know, "I'm 15 going to call the Sheriff and I'm going to have the Sheriff 16 come down there and stop you, because number one, I'm not 17 going to bring your son down there and let him cross the river 18 with him on his back." Well, I could hear her in the 19 background telling her husband, "Johnny Hawkins is going to 20 call the Sheriff on you." And he's saying, "Good, tell him to 21 get here quick." 22 Anyway, that -- well, you can tell those forever on 23 that deal, but we do need -- and we have another problem at 24 camp, too. We -- not just camp, but all the other people in 25 the summertime. We employ about 170 people there, and being a 12-11-06 46 1 counselor at camp is a very time-consuming, tough deal, and 2 when it's your day off, we encourage you to get away from camp 3 for -- relax, you know. And when you're flooded in, it's 4 tough. I'm telling y'all, it's -- and, you know, we didn't 5 have to worry about that this year. When it's dry years, this 6 issue kind of goes away. But we had two or three years that 7 were very, very wet years. Food trucks -- all of us up here 8 probably buy from the same company, but they have a deal now, 9 they will not cross a bridge with water. And that's just 10 standard procedure for drivers, and it's probably a good one 11 if they don't know the area. I can tell you numerous times 12 I've gone across in my truck with my little flatbed trailer 13 and hauled in food for a truck that was on the other side, 14 won't come -- won't come across. And the low-water bridge 15 coming into camp, you know, it's been -- I've seen it for a 16 month or longer, but we've always had Cade Loop to get out. 17 And what a great place to build a new bridge, help 18 everybody on that side, and I think we could make that area 19 much nicer than what it is -- is today. And I also wanted to 20 just -- just a brief minute on the -- and the gentleman talked 21 about water running over the bridge. I've had one there at 22 Rio Vista forever, and that water's gone across there. And 20 23 years ago, if would you have said, "Johnny, we're going to 24 raise this bridge," I'd have fought you like hell. It's 25 different today. It is so, so slick. And I think the Judge 12-11-06 47 1 got a letter -- and, actually, I pulled a car off this 2 weekend, but we had a gentleman -- and I had him write a 3 letter to the Judge, 'cause a lot of it's not known, but he 4 was 74 years old. And I have never seen a motorcycle make it 5 across that bridge; they just don't do it. Anyway, he flipped 6 and spent 45 minutes in the water under the motorcycle, and he 7 was honking his horn. And we don't hear as good as we used to 8 and I didn't hear him, but luckily he was able to pull his 9 foot out of his boot and got out and called the Sheriff's 10 department. 11 And, you know, his question to me, he said, this -- 12 "This thing's like ice." And I said "Well, I know." It is. 13 It's very, very -- and the County does the best they can on 14 scraping it with a maintainer, and 10 days later, it's -- you 15 know, you just -- you'd have to leave a maintainer there and 16 scrape it all the time. And in the summertime, it is really 17 bad. But, anyway, this gentleman spent that time in there, 18 and we were able to get down there and -- and get him out, and 19 he did write a letter about -- and they came in and actually 20 put in a couple of slippery signs that are about 150 yards on 21 each side of the bridge. Well, a motorcycler or somebody 22 pulls up to the bridge and looks at it on that thing. So, 23 there's been talk for years and years of raising that bridge a 24 little bit where it was dry. It's -- and it may be time to do 25 that with the traffic that is in our -- you know, we're 12-11-06 48 1 growing. I don't like it, but there's nothing I can do about 2 it. And so, anyway, we would love for them to spend their 3 money on a new bridge at Cade. I think it would be a dynamite 4 spot, open that area up, clean it up. The debris has built up 5 on the bridge that's there now. It's 20 feet out. It's just 6 -- it's a hellhole, so let's let them fix it all up, and y'all 7 can think about the -- the little low-water bridge coming in. 8 We appreciate it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve the 12 motion. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 16 of the agenda item and approval of the resolution. Any 17 further question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to make a point. You 19 used -- Mr. Evans, is it? Evans? 20 MR. EVANS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You -- you used a couple of 22 words that I like. Those little bridges up past Hunt, I do 23 consider them jewels and treasures. The beauty of that entire 24 trip, that's the reason all these people came here, is because 25 of that. Now we want to change it. 12-11-06 49 1 MR. EVANS: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, and -- but one point we 3 haven't made is, we've been trying and working to get -- and 4 Commissioner 4 has been banging on this for a number of years, 5 of getting a road on the outside of the river from Kerrville 6 to as close to Hunt as we can get. And a -- a bridge at Cade 7 Loop would enhance that some. And for that reason only, I'm 8 going to vote for it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you visited with TexDOT? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The plan is, if this resolution is 12 approved, you will visit with TexDOT? 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd recommend you go with the 15 District Engineer, Mike Coward, first, and the District 16 Engineer in San Antonio. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That needs to be done. In 18 fact, at least I was -- I think everybody was surprised at the 19 proposal. The first time we knew anything about the proposal 20 was a meeting they called. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your absence the other 22 day, Mr. Evans was in and he visited with me about this, and 23 it was my suggestion too that after the Court adopts this, 24 that you set up a meeting with Mike Coward and he, in turn, 25 with the District Engineer, David Casteel, and meet with him 12-11-06 50 1 in San Antonio and have a talk with him. Very receptive man. 2 You know, he's very reasonable, and it's a good opportunity to 3 tell him all the things that we heard this morning. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're very fortunate; we have, 5 locally and in the district, two of the more responsive TexDOT 6 representatives, I think, in the state. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we have had in this area for 9 a long time. Very, very fortunate. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments on the 11 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 12 right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 17 Item 4; consider and approve a resolution supporting Texas 18 Tech University's request for funding for the Hill Country 19 Educational Network and the Texas Tech University Center at 20 Junction by the Texas Legislature. Commissioner Nicholson. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll read the resolution. 22 "Whereas, the Hill Country of Texas, one of the fastest 23 growing rural areas in the nation, is underserved by 24 institutions of higher education; and 25 "Whereas, the continued economic viability of rural 12-11-06 51 1 Texas and the success and welfare of its residents is highly 2 dependent upon the provision of higher education services; and 3 "Whereas, it is essential for the area's diverse 4 student population to have ready access to higher education 5 opportunities; and 6 "Whereas, the Texas Tech University (TTU) Hill 7 Country Educational Network and the TTU Center at Junction are 8 critical to meeting the needs of this student population at an 9 affordable cost; and 10 "Whereas, the educational network and the center are 11 one of the first comprehensive efforts in Texas to provide 12 services to a wide rural area; and 13 "Whereas, this educational endeavor promotes 14 admiration, not competition, among colleges and universities; 15 and 16 "Whereas, local communities in the Hill Country 17 continue to invest in this endeavor, with significant 18 contributions by local governments and private donors; and 19 "Whereas, continuing State support of the TTU Hill 20 Country Educational Network and the TTU Center at Junction is 21 critical; 22 "Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Kerr County 23 Commissioners Court fully supports the TTU -- the Texas Tech 24 University request for appropriations for each of fiscal years 25 2008 and 2009, as submitted to the Texas Legislature, for the 12-11-06 52 1 TTU Hill Country Educational Network (Fredericksburg, Highland 2 Lakes, and Junction) and the TTU center at Junction." 3 I want to introduce and ask my neighbor, Fred 4 Moseley, to talk about this -- this educational institution. 5 And Fred's pretty typical of most west Kerr people; he's 6 pretty active in the community. He's a member of the Board of 7 Directors of the Texas Tech Hill Country Educational 8 Institution. He's a volunteer firefighter in Hunt, treasurer 9 of the Volunteer Fire Department. His beautiful wife Janet is 10 the founder of Silver Shoppers, and both of them are on the 11 board at the Hunt Methodist Church, and I think in their spare 12 time they do a few other things, but they're just sort of 13 typical of west Kerr County retirees. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're bringing out the big 15 guns today. 16 MR. MOSELEY: Hardly so. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, and if you want to find 18 Fred's house, just drive out 1340 until you see a red mailbox. 19 If you look over at the right, you'll see a red roof house 20 with a red barbecue pit. That would be Fred Moseley. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 22 MR. MOSELEY: And I was told that the -- that the 23 Court was possibly going to ban red mailboxes on 1340, so I'm 24 going to speak against that, too. Thank you, Dave. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks for being here, 12-11-06 53 1 Mr. Moseley. 2 MR. MOSELEY: As a member of the Board of Advisers 3 for Texas Tech Hill Country Educational Network, you -- as 4 Dave mentioned, we have three campuses that we support; 5 Junction, Marble Falls, and Fredericksburg. Greg Shrader is 6 here as my backup, and I sure am glad he's here, because I may 7 not have all the answers. We -- a few things about what we're 8 doing. Certainly, we're asking your support for our total 9 budget of approximately a million, five for this next year. 10 And last three years, we've -- we've graduated 135 students. 11 We offer three undergraduate degrees, general sciences and -- 12 and two undergraduate degrees in nursing -- excuse me, 13 administrative, school administration, and then an 14 undergraduate degree in -- in nursing. We offer about four 15 graduate degrees in the same areas, primarily nursing and 16 school administration, and one doctorate. And this past May, 17 we -- I think we graduated about 50 students, so there -- and 18 there's a large increase every year. We've been in operation 19 now a little -- little less than five years, and as I say, 20 we've had three graduating classes so far. So, we're simply 21 asking from the -- for the County, the cities and the school 22 systems to support ourselves and our recommendation to the 23 Legislature for this appropriation in the next session. It's 24 unfortunate that Senator Fraser wasn't able to stay with us, 25 because I'm reasonably sure that he -- that he does support 12-11-06 54 1 that. We have an outstanding new building in Marble Falls. 2 We have land allocated and a capital campaign going on right 3 now for a new facility in Fredericksburg, and the Junction 4 campus is -- we're asking for about a 3 million -- 360,000 for 5 next year for them. And it's almost self-sufficient, being 6 primarily summer -- summer classes being taught there; art, 7 geology, entomology, things like that that are popular in the 8 summertime with students. Any questions? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Moseley, can you give us 10 a little enrollment -- historical perspective, how the 11 enrollment has grown over the last few years? 12 MR. MOSELEY: Yes. Five years ago, we started with 13 four students from all three campuses, total. And I think at 14 this time, we're at -- we measure it in student hours, and 15 that's how we get our funding, is the number of hours being 16 taken by students. But at this time, it seems to me we have 17 about 65. 18 MR. SHRADER: I just happen to have those numbers. 19 MR. MOSELEY: Please, yeah. Thank you. 20 MR. SHRADER: We had 83 unduplicated students that 21 took 374 classroom hours last year. And that's up, as Fred 22 said, from 4 five years ago. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's great. 24 MR. SHRADER: The campus in Marble Falls and the 25 campus coming on line in Gillespie County will be big 12-11-06 55 1 additions to the program. And -- and, really, the reason that 2 Fred and I are here is because we support public higher 3 education in the Hill Country, and this certainly makes it 4 more accessible, and thank you for your consideration. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 6 MR. MOSELEY: Yes. Any questions? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're simply -- this 8 resolution will be sent to the Legislature in Austin, asking 9 them to continue funding or increase, or whatever it might -- 10 MR. MOSELEY: Correct. And we're going to the 11 school systems -- Greg and I both have gone to the various 12 school systems and the City requesting the same type of 13 resolution, simply support for the need for this. We're 14 working very closely -- in each campus, we're working with the 15 local community colleges, so actually, a student straight out 16 of Tivy High School can go to Austin Community College or 17 attend classes in Austin Community College in Fredericksburg 18 the first two years, and go ahead and complete a general 19 sciences degree or a -- you know, complete a degree right 20 there in Fredericksburg, and still work in Kerr County. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic. 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I don't think we 23 could overestimate the importance of particularly the 24 Fredericksburg campus to us. Whether it's a young person just 25 starting out in college or an adult who wants to continue 12-11-06 56 1 their education, the ability to drive only 22 miles and access 2 this kind of education system is important. It -- it's good 3 -- it's good economics for Kerr County. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So I make a motion to 6 approve the resolution. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 9 of the resolution. Any question or discussion? Mr. Shrader, 10 you had forwarded me a -- I think it was crossed over during 11 the time that the agenda was being prepared and the resolution 12 that's before us now -- a resolution that's very, very similar 13 to the one that's been read into the record, I think the only 14 difference being that in -- in the one which you forwarded to 15 me, the specific numbers that are requested for the 16 appropriations are included, but otherwise seem to be -- 17 MR. SHRADER: Exactly. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- virtually identical. 19 MR. SHRADER: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- I assume just the general 21 request for approval of appropriation as requested is 22 satisfactory? 23 MR. SHRADER: Absolutely. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 25 MR. SHRADER: Thank you. 12-11-06 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 2 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 8 MR. MOSELEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you for your work, 10 both of you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, consider, discuss, and 12 take appropriate action on new rates at the Hill Country Youth 13 Exhibit Center. Commissioner Letz, I think Ms. Davidson is 14 ill today. That's the word I got earlier this morning. I'll 15 leave it to your discretion at this point. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can discuss it a 17 little bit, but probably we'll give some food for thought and 18 then we can put it back on the agenda. One of the things that 19 has happened, I think, since we split up the Maintenance 20 Department, custodial and all that that we did, as liaison at 21 the Ag Barn, I've started to take a real, hard look as to what 22 that facility is costing the County and how we're managing it 23 and things of that nature. And I've been talking both to Tim 24 Bollier, who's been given the charge of -- of putting the 25 manpower along with community service people at the Ag Barn, 12-11-06 58 1 and then -- and Alyce, who's been given the responsibility for 2 the booking and that side of it, and we have a problem. 3 The -- Alyce has gone through and she's -- I've not talked to 4 her about her new rates, but I've looked through the agenda 5 backup. I do not think -- I think we have a manpower problem, 6 first of all. 7 I think, by looking at Tim's -- I asked him to look 8 at how much manpower's been going into some events, and it 9 appears to me, not counting community service and not counting 10 the -- necessarily always having someone on-site when we're 11 leasing that facility, that it's costing us frequently six to 12 eight hours of setup time for an event. And then if you add 13 on top of that -- a lot of times we don't have anybody 14 on-site; people are on call, as I understand it, during a lot 15 of the events. Sometimes they do have people on call or out 16 there physically, but I think -- I'm real concerned about us 17 not having a Kerr County employee there whenever that facility 18 is open. So, I think we have a problem on that side of it. 19 The reality is that probably, with three people in 20 Maintenance, as was -- as has happened, about one of those 21 people is dedicated full-time, or man-hours wise, to 22 baby-sitting and setting up that facility, plus the -- again, 23 the community service time, and plus not looking at all the 24 work Alyce has done on her scheduling side. 25 I think we really need to look at this real hard as 12-11-06 59 1 to how this is done and how we budget. I think we're getting 2 closer and closer by charging more and more out there, but it 3 really doesn't address the manpower issue that it takes out of 4 our Maintenance Department to have people sitting around out 5 there when this show's open -- I mean, whenever we're open. 6 That's not a good use of those people, in my opinion. So, I'm 7 just bringing all that up; I think we really need to look at 8 this. I don't see that it makes a whole lot of sense for any 9 reason, other than maybe it was done convenience-wise in the 10 past, that it was put under Maintenance. It's not a 11 maintenance function out there. We've kind of -- it's been 12 a -- a little bit of a stepchild. We have, you know, 13 different people doing different things out there, and we just 14 need to look at that whole system, I think. I think that 15 we're -- what is happening right now is we're using a lot of 16 maintenance manpower that are going out there at the Ag Barn, 17 and really not getting the maintenance work done that needs to 18 be done. 19 And the -- and the big -- the real big kicker in all 20 this is, if community service ever -- we don't -- if they're 21 not available, if we have to basically put our entire 22 maintenance department, and some of the custodial department 23 as well, out there just to get these events ready, that's not 24 the intent of those two departments. Custodial is supposed to 25 do custodial work. Maintenance is doing maintenance work, and 12-11-06 60 1 that facility needs to be manned with people that are 2 dedicated to managing that facility, in my opinion. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're absolutely 4 right, Commissioner, and I appreciate you putting it on here. 5 I think we need to adjust -- we need to address the rates, but 6 more importantly, or of equal importance, we need to address 7 the setup cost and the take-down cost. And I think we have 8 been lulled to sleep about the use of community service 9 workers, but we have never taken into consideration what 10 happens when they're not available. I think that was all 11 brought dramatically, at least to me, when Mr. Miller of the 12 Texas Arts and Crafts Fair, did a spreadsheet on that earlier 13 this year and showed us the amount of money that it costs to 14 set that facility up and take it down, and the use of 15 equipment, for which we don't charge. So, I agree with you. 16 And what I'm seeing here in the proposed rates is just rates 17 for the use of the facility; doesn't deal with the setup and 18 take-down cost. And the take-down cost becomes an impact 19 sometimes because of the -- of the closeness of dates. You 20 have to hustle to get it taken down and get it set up for 21 something that's coming in right behind another event. So, I 22 agree with you, we need to take a look at the whole picture. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the other thing -- I 24 think we can wait until probably our second meeting. I'll 25 let -- see if Tim has any comments as well, but I think the 12-11-06 61 1 Court needs to give our Maintenance Supervisor direction. 2 What's more important, maintaining the county facilities or 3 having people out there at that facility when we have events 4 going on? We don't have -- you know, and we're getting ready 5 to get into stock show period. Well, under our current setup, 6 we might as well shut down maintenance for the month of 7 January, 'cause all the maintenance crew is going to be 8 sitting at the stock show. And I'm not saying they won't be 9 working hard, but it's -- I mean, I don't expect Tim to have 10 all his people work a whole bunch of extra hours. I mean, 11 they're supposed to be working 40-hour weeks. Now, 12 occasionally, people need to work a little bit more and fill 13 in here and fill in there, and vacations happening and some 14 people get sick, and I understand that, but consistently, that 15 shouldn't be the case. And, I mean, I've told him, in my 16 opinion, a 40-hour week, that's what all those people are 17 supposed to be working, period. And that's not what's 18 happening right now. And I think we just need to give him 19 some direction as to where does he cut? Does he not have 20 people at the facility, or is he not doing maintenance? And I 21 feel maintenance is more important than keeping that facility 22 open. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the solution, 24 Commissioner? Are you talking about hiring a new staff, or 25 are you talking about closing the door? Are you talking about 12-11-06 62 1 giving the facility to somebody else, or what -- what's the 2 answer? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have an answer, per se. 4 I don't know that -- the only way I would hire additional 5 staff, which I think probably makes the most sense to have a 6 person that's there and does the work, is if there are fees 7 generated that pay 100 percent of that salary. That is what 8 I -- that seems to -- I'm really not in favor of -- I have not 9 heard a proposal from anybody other than the County that will 10 operate it the way that I think the facility needs to be 11 operated, and we do -- and that's because we subsidize a lot 12 of uses out there, mainly 4-H and things of that nature. I 13 think we should subsidize those uses. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Whoever manages the 15 facility's going to have this exact same problem. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to look at, 20 really, almost a workshop setting, probably is the best, and 21 maybe do that at our next meeting, together when Alyce is here 22 about the booking side of it. Tim knows -- I mean, he's taken 23 up -- is keeping very accurate records as to how many hours 24 his people are there, not counting community service workers, 25 and figure out what the best mechanism. I think the -- I just 12-11-06 63 1 don't think this is a maintenance responsibility to be sitting 2 out there doing stuff during the fair. Now, if the 3 building -- if that building needs work, yes, that is a 4 maintenance issue, but sitting there during antique shows and 5 being on call is not a maintenance facility -- or 6 maintenance -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you one more 8 question. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- function. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have an Option 2, and 11 proposed rates for 2007, two different sheets of paper. I 12 can't tell if any of these numbers here are present-day 13 numbers. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know either. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are these all proposed to go 16 to? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe these are proposed, 18 but we need to have the current ones. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you mind asking her to 20 do that? 'Cause -- 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it'd also be helpful to 22 have an estimation of -- if you adopt one of these two 23 proposals, either one of them or both, what would be the net 24 impact on annual revenues? So we can see if our revenues are 25 going to go up enough that we can afford some of the kinds of 12-11-06 64 1 things you're talking about. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other thing is 3 that -- and I really probably need to sit down with Alyce and 4 Tim -- Tim's given me a pretty good breakdown as to the amount 5 of hours, basically starting in October, November, and 6 December, as to how many hours are going into various events. 7 I think we can then take that, look at the booking projected 8 for the next year, and figure out how much man-hours are going 9 into that facility. You know, the hard part comes is, yes, I 10 think we can probably build into the fee structure enough to 11 have one person out there, but there's times you need more 12 than one person, so there's still going to have to be some 13 give and take between probably the Maintenance Department. 14 But I think there needs to be somebody -- I think maintenance 15 is getting the short end right now. I mean maintenance of our 16 facilities is getting the short end of it, not the Maintenance 17 Department. Tim, do you have any additional comments other 18 than that? Or -- 19 MR. BOLLIER: Not right now. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not right now. So, at the 21 workshop -- we'll probably put on it the agenda as a workshop. 22 I think that's probably the best thing to kind of work through 23 most of these. I'll get with Alyce when she gets better. 24 MR. BOLLIER: I -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She does -- 12-11-06 65 1 MR. BOLLIER: I think that there's a lot of time 2 being put out there at that barn, like you were talking about, 3 that should be put into the maintenance side of it. As of 4 right now, we're so short-handed that it's -- that if you 5 have -- at the barn, on the weekends, those functions run 6 anywhere from eight hours to -- to late at night, if there's 7 two separate ones out there. So, where -- that could end up 8 to be a 17- or 18-hour day, and like the stock show, there's 9 only going to -- it's going to take every one of us. There's 10 me -- there's four of us total, counting the new person that I 11 hired last week. And it's going to take from 7 o'clock in the 12 morning till 10:00, 11 o'clock every night for that stock show 13 function, and it's just going to take a lot of time. And when 14 you do that, I don't have anybody to do my maintenance, and 15 I've got to have somebody here during that -- I mean, during 16 the stock show time, because of the jail and maintenance here. 17 I mean, there's nobody here. If I have a toilet go out or 18 whatever, I have no one here to fix it, because everybody's 19 out there working. So, it's -- you know, it's -- I just don't 20 have enough man hours. That's just it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why I think we need to 22 figure out a priority as to, you know, what -- what gets done. 23 And I think that this is -- this is probably the root problem. 24 This problem I don't think is new. I've been complaining 25 about maintenance, especially preventive maintenance, for a 12-11-06 66 1 couple years, and I think that was the problem. I think that 2 Glenn had the same problem when he was here. He had to put 3 his maintenance people out there at the stock show, the Ag 4 Barn, and it just -- I never really investigated it to the 5 level I have the last couple months. So, I don't have a great 6 solution, but I know the fee structure is the way -- is a way 7 to help fix it. But that's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that particular 9 agenda item by any member of the Court? We have a timed item 10 at 10:30; I'd like to go ahead and get it taken care of, if we 11 might, before we take our break. So, we'll go to Item 8; 12 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to avail Kerr 13 County requisite engineering services to assess damage and 14 remedial action required to repair Flat Rock Lake Dam. 15 Commissioner Williams. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I've had 17 some discussions with several people about this, but 18 fortunately, a gentleman called me and was interested in 19 coming and talking to the Court with respect to the problem 20 and how we might begin the process of remediation. I've not 21 had the opportunity to meet this gentleman, although I think 22 Commissioner Letz has, and knows him, so we're going to meet 23 him together. I'd like to introduce Mr. Stefan Schuster of 24 Freese-Nichols who is here today with -- I'm not sure if he's 25 by himself or with somebody else. 12-11-06 67 1 MR. SCHUSTER: No, I brought Mr. Boyd with me. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we're going to talk 3 about Flat Rock Lake Dam. Thank you for coming. 4 MR. SCHUSTER: You bet. Thank you, Commissioner. 5 Good morning, Judge, Commissioners. My name is Stefan 6 Schuster of Freese and Nichols from Austin, Texas. I've 7 brought with me Les Boyd, and we'll try to get the joke out of 8 the way; Les is a dam engineer. So, we -- we came out this 9 morning based on the response that the T.C.E.Q. published a 10 report on November 8th on an inspection on Flat Rock Dam and 11 the assessment that there may be some probable -- possible 12 problems with the dam. And so Les and I actually visited the 13 site this morning and took a cursory review, beyond the report 14 that was -- that I'm sure you read from T.C.E.Q. And I'll let 15 Les talk a little bit about some of the things that we 16 observed, and then we can talk about some of the possible 17 remedies and possible courses of action from that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you get the copy of the 19 report I sent? 20 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, I sure did. And based on that, 21 we actually went out to the site this morning and walked 22 around, and so if you got any reports about folks walking 23 around the dam this morning, that was us. So, basically -- 24 Les, do you want to go ahead and talk about some of the 25 observations that you had? 12-11-06 68 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before Les comes up, we may -- 2 Stefan is a -- or, his firm is the consulting engineer with 3 Region J, so I knew Stefan and have worked with him, and when 4 Stefan saw this, he called me and asked if he could help. I 5 steered him to Commissioner Williams. I gave him some 6 criteria; I said, "We have no money to pay you for any kind of 7 inspection or work. Other than that, you're welcome to come 8 and talk to us." 9 MR. SCHUSTER: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lo and behold. 11 MR. BOYD: Okay. Stefan and I did walk the dam this 12 morning for -- for the first time, and I see some things that 13 are consistent with what the report that T.C.E.Q. put out. 14 There's some what appear to be possibly some settlements in 15 some of the concrete slabs. You can see a little bit of 16 dishing in them. You can see old joints that have seeped in 17 the past, have vegetation growth and signs of leaching through 18 the joints. I couldn't discern an expansion joint anywhere in 19 the dam, so that could account for a lot of the cracking that 20 you see. They may be present. We'd need access to a set of 21 plans to determine whether that exists. Some of the problems 22 associated with this is, if you continue to get soil movement 23 underneath the slabs, it will erode the support that's there 24 for the slab, and they're not -- most likely not designed to 25 span any distance of any significance, so then you'll -- 12-11-06 69 1 you'll have settlement in the slabs, and then that will open 2 up joints. And the problem with open joints is that 3 high-velocity flow coming across a joint can actually 4 introduce itself into a crack and lift the slab up and 5 displace it, so it will just peel it off. 6 And some of the things that we'd like to do would 7 probably be get access to any existing plans that there are 8 and take a look at how it's constructed. Does it have any 9 underdrains? Does it have a cutoff wall? A clay core? What 10 are some of the links to the leakage that have been seen over 11 the years? Overall, T.C.E.Q. classified it in overall good 12 shape, and it appears to be. The cracking is not inconsistent 13 with what I would expect on a -- on a dam of that length. The 14 holes -- we weren't able to see that there in the report; I 15 suppose they're on the downstream slab, and we need to get 16 waders on and go take a look. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there on the slope 18 side of the spillway, in the spillway itself. I'd be happy to 19 give you the color photographs. I know what you saw was -- 20 was what I transmitted digitally to you, and there's a lot 21 lost in that. 22 MR. BOYD: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be happy to share with 24 you the color photographs which show the water going in and in 25 some holes on the downside slope. 12-11-06 70 1 MR. BOYD: That would be a big help. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Spillway. I can do that 3 after the meeting or when we take a break. 4 MR. BOYD: But -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- and maybe we have 6 plans for it, but I would be a bit surprised if we have plans 7 for this dam. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we don't have, and 9 that's a good point. There is all sorts of speculation as to 10 when the dam was built and by whom. And, you know, I've 11 talked to our Road and Bridge people, and they say, "Well, we 12 believe L.C.R.A. built the dam." If you talk to L.C.R.A., 13 they say, "Well, we don't recall -- remember doing that. I 14 think it was built in the '40's," and somebody else says, "No, 15 I think it was built in the '50's." So, I had somebody who 16 was local, a native; goes way back. He said it was built at 17 the tail end of the drought of the '50's, which is pretty good 18 information. 'Cause he said, "I used to cross over there as a 19 kid, and I know when that thing was built." I said, "Okay, 20 that's good news. You know who built it?" "Oh, no, I don't 21 know who built it. I think the County built it." I said, 22 "Well, I don't think so." But the County owns it, so if we 23 can locate those plans, that would be wonderful. I don't know 24 if we start with L.C.R.A. T.C.E.Q. doesn't seem to think they 25 have them in their possession. 12-11-06 71 1 MR. BOYD: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, you know, maybe through 3 your years of resources and connections, we can do that. I'll 4 be happy to help. 5 MR. BOYD: And it may be that you don't find any, 6 and that the best thing you can do is do a little bit of 7 exploration; cut a small hole in the downstream slab and see 8 how thick it is and see how it's reinforced, so they can get 9 some value for -- for what its structural strength is. Is it 10 connected to where it -- one panel can't just come out? Or 11 will it take several panels, and would they buckle up and 12 then, you know, go as a unit? You know, you need more 13 information on really assessing how far it goes together. I 14 see in the reports that they did some soundings with some 15 sledgehammers, which is basically just testing for the 16 drumminess to see if they lost -- have lost their support. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, hollowness? 18 MR. BOYD: Yeah. You'll get a hollow sound when you 19 hit something where the soil's not supporting the slab any 20 longer. I think probably one of the things that I would think 21 about doing would be to get some nondestructive testing set up 22 to run a line parallel to the dam at maybe every 5 or 10 feet 23 and do a -- kind of like a sonar along there, and see how 24 extensive the undermining is underneath that slab. It may -- 25 may be isolated, one or two layers, or it might be along the 12-11-06 72 1 entire length. Most likely it's isolated along the joint 2 areas where they're leaking. But then in the report, they 3 also mention about they had -- in 1989, they did a grout 4 program, which generally that consists of going along and 5 drilling a series of holes, and you pump in grout. You chase 6 it to the next hole, and then you move to that hole and keep 7 pumping it. What that does, basically, is it fills those 8 voids for you. The thing it doesn't do is -- is keep anything 9 else from washing away beneath the grout. It's kind of a 10 continual problem, so you have to -- I wouldn't think that you 11 would do it one time and say, "I've got it completely fixed." 12 They did it in '89 and it's back again, so it has a limited 13 success rate to doing that. You -- we really need to say, 14 well, do you have any kind of a cutoff wall in the dam, like a 15 clay core? I suspect it does, but without that kind of 16 knowledge, you don't know what the underdrain system is and 17 what's in place. So it's really a -- it's hard to make a -- a 18 real in-depth evaluation of it on a, you know, 15-minute 19 walk-through. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 21 MR. BOYD: But what -- what we'd be pleased to do is 22 work with County Commissioners and put together a proposal and 23 what we think it would take to evaluate what the dam is truly 24 in need of. 25 MR. SCHUSTER: That's -- I think Les hit that nail 12-11-06 73 1 on the head. I think that's what -- really what we would 2 propose to do, is put together a scope and make some 3 recommendations, the type of work we would do if we were hired 4 to do any sort of repairs, and give you an opportunity to 5 evaluate that and talk through that with us a little further. 6 And, certainly, we'll be happy to look at the photographs and 7 see if we can locate some plans. We certainly have the 8 resources to be able to do that, and then come back to the 9 County and give you an assessment of what we think it would 10 cost to actually do the repairs. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I think that's a 12 reasonable approach. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- do y'all just want 14 to do this, or do you want some sort of assurance that we're 15 going to use Freese-Nichols? I mean -- 16 MR. SCHUSTER: Well, I think the primary objective 17 here is safety of the citizens of Kerr County. We certainly 18 are considered one of the premier dam safety firms in the 19 state. We've done this kind of work for more than 100 years, 20 and so we don't fear that -- that there would be others who 21 would be much more qualified to do the work. But, certainly, 22 the most important thing is that we do what's right for the 23 county. So, we'd be happy to submit the proposal, and you 24 guys can develop a request for proposals from that. I -- I 25 don't think that's an issue for us. 12-11-06 74 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The initial thing would be what you 2 think it's going to take in the way of doing appropriate 3 evaluation. 4 MR. SCHUSTER: That's correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a two-step process, 6 and then it will -- beyond that, based upon the evaluation, 7 what the remedial action would be. 8 MR. SCHUSTER: That is correct. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The T.C.E.Q. people -- I 10 just want to get this on the record. T.C.E.Q. people said 11 that there is no imminent danger, it being a recreational dam, 12 but these are things we need to address. The things that they 13 identified need to be addressed. Your cursory inspection this 14 morning would sort of confirm that, perhaps? 15 MR. SCHUSTER: I'm -- I will defer to Les, since 16 he's certainly the expert. I would say -- 17 MR. BOYD: Yeah. 18 MR. SCHUSTER: -- I concur with the report. 19 MR. BOYD: They've declared it to be basically in 20 overall good condition, so they're just basically saying to 21 you, take care of some maintenance issues so they don't become 22 a big problem and cause you to have -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. BOYD: -- a loss. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good thing to have on the 12-11-06 75 1 record. Thank you. 2 MR. SCHUSTER: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further for these gentlemen 4 by any member of the Court? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we take a break, I'll go 6 get those pictures for them, Judge. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 8 MR. SCHUSTER: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Why 10 don't we take about a 15-minute break here, and we'll come 11 back and tackle the rest of the agenda. 12 (Recess taken from 10:44 a.m. to 11:02 a.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 15 might. We were in recess. If we might, let's move to Item 6; 16 consider, discuss, and take appropriate actions to approve the 17 county offices closing from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. on December 22, 18 2006. Ms. Pieper? 19 MS. PIEPER: Well, Judge, this is something that we 20 normally do after our Christmas party each year, is everybody 21 scatters and goes -- goes home or goes shopping. So, I'm 22 being asked by my staff and other staff throughout the 23 courthouse if we're going to do this again, and I said I don't 24 know; I'll pose it to the Commissioners, and whatever y'all 25 decide is what we'll do. 12-11-06 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Key words, "after the 2 Christmas party." 3 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Key words. 5 MS. PIEPER: Well, from 11:05, I figure we'll go eat 6 and clean up, and then whatever your wishes are, if you'd 7 rather we come back to work, or if we go finish our shopping 8 or -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What time do your folks 11 break for lunch normally? 12 MS. PIEPER: They start at 11:00. We stagger 13 lunches. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess in recent years, it 15 seems that the attendance is kind of -- and even this year, I 16 know there's some issues as to continuing, not continuing the 17 Christmas party, and I think we are continuing, from 18 everything I know. But, I mean, I think the intent on this is 19 to get the courthouse family together at a Christmas party, 20 not to give people half a day off. So I think -- I mean, I 21 don't mind doing this, but I think there's a -- I mean, people 22 need to understand, the reason is to have fellowship among the 23 courthouse family, not to give everyone a half day vacation, 24 and -- and able to do that. So, you know, that's -- that's 25 kind of my comment. I just think that's an important part of 12-11-06 77 1 this. And, obviously, you can't require people to attend a 2 Christmas party, but you certainly -- I hope department heads 3 and elected officials understand the reason behind it, and -- 4 kind of my thoughts. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We grant more holidays than 6 private industry and business does. I don't know how many 7 more; two or three, probably. We're really generous on 8 holidays. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess that's kind of where 10 I'm raising the issue of the hours. Aren't we really talking 11 about 1:00 to 5:00, the afternoon work session, as opposed to 12 11 a.m.? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 14 MS. PIEPER: I haven't heard what time dinner was 15 going to be served. I'm assuming around noon, but I don't 16 know. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what you're asking us to 18 do is to amend the holiday schedule that we provided and 19 established during the budget process to add an additional 20 half day to it, which is two days prior to Christmas Eve. 21 Isn't that essentially what you're asking? 22 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think we've already plowed 24 that ground, haven't we? Didn't we discuss the holidays that 25 we were going to have? 12-11-06 78 1 MS. PIEPER: If -- if you did, sir, I wasn't 2 present. I don't know. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I -- I guess what you're doing 4 is you're acknowledging that -- that except for instances 5 involving health or safety issues, that this Court controls 6 what hours county offices should be open; is that correct? 7 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. If y'all do not 8 approve this, then I can close my office from 12:00 to 1:00 9 completely, and we can run over eat and come back. It's just 10 whatever y'all desire. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: If I hadn't raised a concern about it 12 here a couple of weeks ago, would you even have this agenda 13 item before us? 14 MS. PIEPER: No, sir, we would have done as every 15 office has done ever since I've worked here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Which was? 17 MS. PIEPER: Which was, after our Christmas party, 18 the deputies would go finish their shopping or leave to go out 19 of town to do their family holidays together and whatever it 20 is they do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And you would have declared an 22 additional half-day holiday for your employees in your office? 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. But since I'm not supposed 24 to do that now, I'm coming to get permission. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bah, humbug. (Laughter.) 12-11-06 79 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's funny. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall hearing a reaction 3 about my thoughts about what one possible remedy for those 4 early closings were. I had the discussion with one elected 5 official. I don't recall hearing from you about it, though. 6 Do you have any thoughts about it that? 7 MS. PIEPER: No, sir, I wasn't here that day. I was 8 not aware that that took place until after the fact. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was that possible 10 remedy, Judge? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Possible remedy was that whatever the 12 accumulated man-hours were that were lost as a result of early 13 closings be charged against the elected official. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. I bet that one went 15 over like a lead balloon. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe so. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was your conversation with 18 the one elected official, was that a pleasant time for you? 19 Full of Christmas cheer? (Laughter.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall that we shared eggnog. 21 But I still think the two principles that I mentioned, you 22 know, the loss to the taxpayers and the expectation that we're 23 here to serve the public, and people show up to do business 24 here at the courthouse, and they -- they come in from outlying 25 areas, maybe out of town, maybe across the street, and they 12-11-06 80 1 can't do business with -- with county offices because they've 2 been prematurely closed. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems we could, in future 4 years, solve this problem by doing the Christmas party a 5 couple of days before the holidays, like the 20th. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's exactly what my 7 proposal is going to be. I'm going to move that we approve 8 this for this year, and then beginning next year, we need to 9 plan a little bit better. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put the party on a different 11 date. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Put the party on a different 13 date, don't have a party, whatever. May give it away, like 14 with the Ag Barn. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm, interesting proposal. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for whatever it's worth, we've 17 set the holidays. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I understand, and I'm not 19 going to sit here and fight with you about it, but I just 20 think it's a -- the thing is, you know, you have to -- you 21 have to -- and I agree; I understand that, but what you have 22 to factor in as well is that, historically, they've done it 23 every year, and everybody kind of expects it. And I don't -- 24 Linda Uecker has not done it, but the majority of the 25 courthouse or county government has done that and just kind of 12-11-06 81 1 expect it, and they're not -- I don't think there's anybody 2 going to break any rules. 3 MS. PIEPER: Well, that's not the intention. That's 4 why I'm here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, and I appreciate that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't -- I mean, I truly 7 want everyone to attend the party, but I don't know why we 8 couldn't close for, you know, two hours, give a break there. 9 And then if some of the staff wants to go on a little bit 10 reduced staff that afternoon, but I think we should be open. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that settles it. 12 MS. PIEPER: So, are we saying two hours? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11:00 to 1:00. I mean, we're 14 going to have a Christmas party, and I -- you know, the public 15 will handle that. I think the public will understand that. 16 Then staff as you deem appropriate for the afternoon, after 17 1 o'clock. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think each elected 19 official can decide how they want to staff their office, 20 and -- for the remainder of the afternoon. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: In that respect, though, there's 22 going to have to be some coding as to what those hours that -- 23 for those that are not there, whether they're taking -- if 24 they've got comp time accrued, if they got -- taking vacation 25 time. I think if regular hours are -- office hours are 12-11-06 82 1 maintained, why, unless there's some appropriate other coding, 2 such as comp time or vacation time, that -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean from 11:00 to 1:00? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Not just be let off. No, I'm not 5 talking about 11:00 to 1:00; I'm talking about the balance of 6 the afternoon, 1:00 to 5:00. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's why they're elected 8 officials. I mean, I don't know how to handle that. They 9 need to handle it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Still don't have a motion. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you're not going to get 12 one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- I'll make a motion 15 that we close -- direct elected officials they can close their 16 offices from 11:00 to 1:00 for the Christmas party. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we get 1:30 out of you? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:00. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to -- 21 AUDIENCE: Need a public notice. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- direct elected officials that 23 courthouse offices be closed from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. on 24 December 22nd, 2006, for the annual employee Christmas 25 party-slash-luncheon. 12-11-06 83 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we'll ask the maintenance 2 department to -- or custodial department, whichever one wants 3 to put some signs up, so the public's aware. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any further question or 5 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 6 by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's move to 11 Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 12 change the name of the privately maintained road in compliance 13 with 911 guidelines, located in Precinct 1. Commissioner 14 Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Ms. Hardin had 16 called me this morning and could not be here, so she asked me 17 to introduce this. This is off of Highway 16, actually in 18 Precinct 2. But don't sweat the small stuff. On the 19 application, it says at owner's discretion, and it meets 911 20 guidelines. With -- with that information before us, I move 21 that we approve it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'll second that, 23 since it's in Precinct 2. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got to be quick around here, 25 boy. 12-11-06 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion for approval of the 2 agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to have that area, 9 actually. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll check. I'll see if we 11 can work it out. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 9; consider, 13 discuss, and take appropriate action on request by Associate 14 Judge Camile G. Dubose for submission by Kerr County of an 15 application for Relative/Kinship Placement Coordinator Project 16 under Texas Court Improvement Project Grant Program, and 17 approval of grant agreement in connection with such project 18 and grant program. I put this on the agenda at the request of 19 Judge Dubose because of her request that this item be -- that 20 the County be the applicant for this grant project. What I 21 would point out is that, as indicated in her forwarding 22 letter, that the matching fund requirement will be supplied 23 through the Auditor's time, as well as the Judge's time and 24 Court supervision. It is a three-year period. The maximum 25 amount shown for reimbursement is just under 93,000. The 12-11-06 85 1 calculation that is made about the match share, they show 2 match share as being 22,000 -- or $23,240. I think that's in 3 error. I think it's actually 30,987, because if the maximum 4 reimbursement is just under 93, that's only three-fourths of 5 it, and when you add the other fourth, you get up to 123,950, 6 roughly, and take a fourth of that. So, I'm not sure we've 7 got the right numbers before us to begin with. I don't know 8 about a time limitation for this; it was not mentioned in 9 Judge Dubose's letter to me. But I put it before the Court 10 for the Court's consideration. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do you have any 12 idea -- it's a three-year period. Does -- after that 13 three-year period, is there a -- do you renew it for another 14 three years? And if so, do you have any idea that this 15 matching issue would still be in play? That's one question. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Best -- go ahead, I'm sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Best information I have on that is, I 19 don't know whether there's a renewal feature to it or not. 20 The -- it appears from the information that I have that that 21 25 percent is an annual match requirement, that it remains 22 constant, and unlike some others where the first year the 23 match is one percentage, the second year it's a little bit 24 higher, the third year it's again a little bit higher, I don't 25 have anything indicating that it's that way. 12-11-06 86 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. My second question is, 2 matching funds will be supplied through the Kerr County 3 Auditor's time. Has the Kerr County Auditor been talked to 4 about this? Has he agreed to this? I mean, we have an 5 Associate Judge from Uvalde making decisions about our 6 Auditor's time here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Honest answer is, I don't know. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can't vote for 9 something like this, sorry. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Comments? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to check into 12 those and put it back on the agenda, possibly? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Possibly. I think the best course of 14 action would be for Judge Dubose to come see us. But -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that might be the 16 recommendation. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Her initial option was to drop it in 18 my lap, so I may suggest she -- she come with Option 2. 19 Anything further on that item? Let's move to Item 10, if we 20 might; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to have 21 County Judge write a letter to L.C.R.A. requesting the Rim 22 Rock to Goat Creek Transmission Line project be put 23 underground, but under no circumstances have that line visible 24 from State Highway 27. Commissioner Baldwin? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much, Judge. 12-11-06 87 1 I appreciate you -- I don't know how my name got on this 2 thing. I swore I would never bring it back. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I remember you saying that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Several times. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it just proves that we 7 listen to our constituency. The -- is the Sheriff still here, 8 just in case? The -- the majority of the constituents that 9 has contacted me has addressed the underground issue, and so 10 that -- that is the single reason that I brought it to you 11 today, the underground issue, is because the majority of the 12 constituents that have contacted me, and I think they've 13 contacted y'all as well, have requested that the power line be 14 put underground. Now, I personally don't know that I -- if I 15 were out in the audience on this side, I don't think that I 16 would agree to that, because of the -- two reasons. The cost 17 factor. I mean, we live on basically solid rock in this area, 18 hence the word hill country. And sawing through that rock and 19 laying the line, and then after it's there, digging it up to 20 maintain it or however you maintain this thing, it just seems 21 like an astronomical cost to me. And that cost of putting 22 that line underground then would be spread out amongst all the 23 users. In other words, folks that will probably not even 24 benefit from this particular line is going to pay -- probably 25 pay for the underground. But it's what the constituency 12-11-06 88 1 desires. Number two on that, I don't think L.C.R.A.'s going 2 to do it anyway, regardless of what I say or what you say or 3 Troy Fraser or anybody else says. As far as the visibility 4 from Highway 27, I am there. I'd really rather not see power 5 lines at our new bridge area or anywhere else going out 6 Highway 27. I get up in the morning -- I live in one of the 7 prettiest spots in the county, and I get up and I drive down 8 my little road to come to the courthouse, and I see those big 9 power lines. And I've just seen them so much, it just doesn't 10 bother me any more. You know, I've gotten used to it. But I 11 don't know about getting used to seeing those power lines as 12 you're driving out 27 over there across the -- the new bridge. 13 I don't know if we'll ever get used to seeing something like 14 that. So, the verbiage here of not letting the lines be 15 visible from Highway 27, you know, I got one e-mail that 16 says -- well, you know, kind of called me stupid about that. 17 Well, there are other solutions. I mean, they can take it 18 through Medina County. They can take it through El Paso. So, 19 there are other solutions. But bottom line is -- is that the 20 constituency, the taxpayers, particularly of my precinct, 21 desire that we take a firm stand -- a specific, firm stand in 22 saying we'd prefer that the lines be underground and 23 definitely not visible from Highway 27. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- I'm almost with 25 you, but I want to make kind of an editorial comment first, 12-11-06 89 1 that I find it interesting that recently, I have been 2 receiving almost an equal number of e-mails against us taking 3 action, or -- period. So, I find that interesting. I think 4 that some of the -- I mean, I still am getting the ones that 5 say we shouldn't be against A-C-P, and I saw a picture in the 6 paper that said I should vote against it and all that, but I'm 7 getting quite a few now that are well thought out from people 8 that say, you know, hey, the Court has been right, they really 9 shouldn't be in the middle of this fight. It's not their 10 issue. So, I find that interesting. I don't mind, you know, 11 requesting or asking the County Judge to write a letter. I 12 would temper it a little bit. I think that we need to ask 13 L.C.R.A. to evaluate underground. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they've done that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but I -- you know, but 16 that's what I want. I want them to give underground a fair 17 shot. And then I would put -- I know they have -- 18 environmental and aesthetics are part of their list. I would 19 just like to see the aesthetics of the Guadalupe Valley one of 20 the highest points on their list. I think that is a critical 21 thing to this community, and I think that that is a -- that's 22 where I am on it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good choice of words 24 for the letter, and that's fine with me. That's saying the 25 same thing. 12-11-06 90 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did I say? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The aesthetics of the 3 Guadalupe Valley be high priority. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Or among the highest 5 priorities. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I heard you say. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That sounds good. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I have some thoughts on it. 9 First hurdle I have to overcome is asking all the ratepayers 10 to pay for special treatment for one particular place. And 11 then the second hurdle is, if underground is good where these 12 towers can be seen by people that reside in the upscale 13 neighborhood, isn't underground good for the rest of the line 14 that runs through middle-class neighborhoods? Probably if we 15 say, "Okay, we're going to ask ratepayers to pay more for a 16 little bit of the line, but not for all of it," that seems a 17 little bit like special treatment. Also, I take exception 18 with the claim that's been made that these towers will devalue 19 property values and erode the tax base. A line a whole lot 20 like this runs across the Guadalupe Valley at Hunt just beyond 21 Shoemaker Crossing. I don't know how long it is, because it 22 disappears over the ridge out there to the -- to the east, but 23 it runs through Canyon Springs Subdivision. There have not 24 been any property values devalued out there. And if you don't 25 believe me, check with your local real estate agent. So, some 12-11-06 91 1 of the -- some of the claims made by a small but vocal group 2 of people just don't hold water. 3 The third -- third point is that in one of the 4 communications I received, it said underground doesn't cost 5 any more than overhead, and then it goes on to say, but let 6 the L.C.R.A. pay for those additional costs. That's circular 7 logic at best. So, the only way I would support a 8 communication from this Court to the Public Utility Board is 9 if it said if there, indeed, is no significant difference in 10 cost, put them underground, and put it underground for 11 everybody, not just one neighborhood. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a point that I want 13 to make. Now I'm sensitive, as most of us are -- as all of us 14 are, to the aesthetic value of the Guadalupe River Valley. No 15 question about that. And I can understand folks being overly 16 sensitive about the potential for seeing electric towers as 17 they go from Kerrville west. But I would remind those that we 18 have electric towers going from Kerrville east as well. They 19 were put in by the L.C.R.A., and I don't recall anybody in my 20 precinct calling me and raising -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Easy. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Cain about the L.C.R.A.'s 23 improving electric transmission, and putting in the necessary, 24 requisite towers to do that for the eastern part of the 25 county. So, I'm a little conflicted here about the 12-11-06 92 1 aesthetical value of the eastern part of the Guadalupe Valley 2 versus the aesthetical value of the western part of the 3 Guadalupe Valley. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'm where you are -- 5 L.C.R.A. just upgraded all the lines in eastern Kerr County. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With a lot of towers. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I've -- have been asked by an 9 individual who has some health problems to have a matter 10 placed into the record with regard to this particular issue, 11 and I will do that now. And we also have a participation form 12 that's been provided, and I'll recognize that individual 13 shortly -- looks like we've got two now. "I would like to 14 encourage all customers of L.C.R.A. to write the Texas Public 15 Service Utilities Commission at P.O. Box 13326, Austin, Texas, 16 78711-3326; fax number, 1-512-936-7003; online, 17 www.puc.state.us/ocp, concerning P.U.C. Docket Number 32825. 18 This is the number assigned by P.U.C. to the Rim Rock-Goat 19 Creek L.C.R.A. transmission line project. We should all 20 request P.U.C. to advise L.C.R.A. to use the most 21 cost-effective method for the installation and maintenance for 22 this project in order to hold down the costs that will be 23 passed on to all ratepayers. We should all encourage the Kerr 24 County Commissioners Court to take no action on the 25 superficial request of a few people. The Court has no 12-11-06 93 1 authority in this matter. It's unconscionable to keep putting 2 them in this no-win situation over which they have no 3 influence. I'd like to point out to the few trying to put 4 pressure on the Court with newspaper ads, the Court is elected 5 to represent what's best for the majority, not pander to the 6 desires of a few. Stop wasting the Court's time and let them 7 get on with running the County's business." Signed, Benny M. 8 Hyde, Phone Number 895-8516. Mr. Hyde asked that I put that 9 in the record, since he was unable to be here. But we also 10 have some participation forms. Debi Nielsen. Ms. Nielsen, if 11 you'd come forward? I show an address of 1528 Knapp Road. 12 MS. NIELSEN: How are you, Judge? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 14 MS. NIELSEN: Commissioners, thank you guys for 15 taking your time to listen, and thanks for caring about our 16 community. I do live right there on Thompson. I moved to 17 Kerrville -- sorry, I wasn't real prepared for this, so I'm 18 going back and forth. I moved to Kerrville June of last year. 19 For the past 10 years, I've worked for the city of Kerrville 20 on different construction projects. The last project we did 21 was on the Guadalupe River at the state park; we moved the 22 river out 25 feet, put the beautiful white rock on our 23 beautiful river up here. I always felt Kerrville is part of 24 me because from the first job I had here, I started looking 25 for my dream place, my dream home, and in May of last year I 12-11-06 94 1 found that perfect piece of property. It had the river; it 2 had a beautiful bridge going in. And even now, daily, you see 3 joggers running. You see cars driving. You go over onto 27 4 and you look up, and you see beautiful hills with all the fall 5 colors. No obstructions, no unsightly towers. And it's not 6 just a few people that are concerned about the aesthetics; 7 it's everyone that drives down 27. It's not just the 8 landowners on Thompson or Saddlewood. Everyone I've talked to 9 that realized, my gosh, you're going to be able to see that 10 over there on Junction Highway? Oh, yeah. 11 Maybe the best thing, and I've tried to find 12 somebody to do it, is take a picture there of how beautiful it 13 is right now, and plant those towers so that everybody can see 14 what it's going to do to our community. And I do think it's a 15 Commissioners' obligation, because you're here to protect this 16 beautiful town. The senator came in this morning, and his 17 first words were he drove into Kerrville into this beautiful 18 hill country. Now, it didn't look like an industrial -- and 19 maybe L.C.R.A. didn't realize when they did those lines that 20 that bridge was going to be there. And as far as paying extra 21 money and all the ratepayers adding to it, you know, when they 22 built that bridge, they added sidewalks to it. They added 23 Stampcrete concrete. They added grass and watering. They 24 added retaining walls, beautiful retaining walls. They added 25 walkways, standing areas so you could stand and admire the 12-11-06 95 1 bridge. 2 And if you go there every day -- I drive across it 3 four or five times a day -- you will see joggers, runners, 4 drivers just standing there, looking at the beauty. That 5 costs the taxpayers extra money, because TexDOT didn't want to 6 just build a rickety old bridge and say, well, we want the 7 cheapest thing there is. They cared about the community. I'm 8 paying for a project in Midland where they're beautifying a 9 side of a road. Did I want to pay for that? Well, I want to 10 keep our community -- and I'm sure they want to keep their 11 community nice. So, it's not just the few people that live 12 right there. Anybody that drives down Junction Highway, 13 anybody that drives down Thompson, it's going to affect 14 everybody. And, like I said, if I could get a picture and 15 show you what it looks like right now, and then impose those 16 towers -- and maybe it hasn't happened on the east side of 17 town, because driving down the busiest street, Junction 18 Highway, or now Thompson is so busy, you don't see those off 19 to that side. Unless you drive out -- I'm assuming you're 20 talking about going out to -- I can't even think of the road, 21 I apologize. But I grew up in Colorado, and it was a 22 beautiful place. But I loved how everyone took care of this 23 community. I mean, I look at the airport. They're putting 24 that beautiful white rock on there. Would have been cheaper 25 to put a steel building, right? But would you have had the 12-11-06 96 1 same effect? No, you wouldn't have. So, whether it goes 2 underground or it's hidden from 27 and Thompson, I just hope 3 that you all -- I know you work diligently, and I know you 4 work hard for the community, but I hope that you stop to say 5 it may be worth spending some extra money, just like TexDOT 6 did in putting these retaining walls. They didn't have to put 7 all of that up, but they did it to make it look nice. And I 8 hope that you don't allow anything to ruin this beautiful 9 scenery. And I know there's a lot of pressure from both ways, 10 but maybe people don't realize that when their tax dollars are 11 spent, whether it be a TexDOT project, a state project, it's 12 paid for by everyone. I appreciate your time. Thank you very 13 much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Nielsen. Bill 15 Pearson? 16 MR. PEARSON: Well, we've got that picture the lady 17 asked for. 18 MS. NIELSEN: Oh, good. 19 MR. PEARSON: And I'll draw your attention, 20 gentlemen, to the right-hand part of the picture. You see a 21 very unobtrusive -- one pole, stanchion pole, which is what 22 L.C.R.A. is using. They have their own fabricating plant, 23 their own galvanizing plant. But we have a little swift boat 24 advertising going on here. If you look at the area that the 25 little lady's talking about, the bridge and so forth, you'll 12-11-06 97 1 see that the people that put this ad in the paper used what 2 looked like oil field derricks for -- for power towers, and 3 that's not what L.C.R.A. is going to use. I was involved in 4 the Rim Rock project, and I went through all of the hearings 5 and so forth that were associated with that. I've appeared 6 five times before the Public Utility Commission on various 7 projects, and I can tell you gentlemen, they're not going to 8 bury the lines, unless the people out there that are putting 9 these ads in the paper want to pay for it. And, again, I 10 think it's sad that they keep coming back to this Court, 11 putting the pressure on Precinct 1 Commissioner Baldwin, when 12 they know darn well that this Court has absolutely no 13 jurisdiction in this matter. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did he just say something 16 nice about me? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I agree with 19 that. I admire and appreciate you keeping this matter in 20 front of the Court. It's the right thing to do. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're trying. My -- my 22 last statement I want to make is in regards to some of these 23 newspaper ads. The latest one I saw the other day -- I can't 24 even believe what I saw -- is the picture of all of us with 25 our e-mails and phone numbers and -- pretty good photographs, 12-11-06 98 1 by the way. And as Mr. Pearson just stated, we have -- oh, 2 god, we don't want to look at that again. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me see that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this Court doesn't have 5 any jurisdiction, other -- other than we can say, "Please 6 don't do it because our constituents don't want to do it." 7 But I have yet to see Harvey Hilderbran or Senator Fraser's 8 name or picture in any newspaper, and they do -- and they do 9 have authority. You know, where is that coming from? That 10 bothers me a little bit. Senator Fraser was in here this 11 morning; we had every opportunity to tackle him and let him -- 12 that's the reason he was here, is to find out what was on our 13 minds, and we had -- and the general public and everybody else 14 had every opportunity to tackle him and give him a piece of 15 his mind. But no, we get the Commissioners Court picture, as 16 if -- it's kinds of a threat type -- that's a veiled threat. 17 If you don't -- if you don't do what we want you to do, buddy, 18 you're -- you've been had. Well, I quit being threatened a 19 long, long time ago, and that's just ridiculous, and I just 20 wanted to bring that up. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another real-life 22 analogy taking place right underneath our nose right now, and 23 although it's not L.C.R.A., it has to do with the 24 rehabilitation of Highway 16 from 27 to Interstate 10. And lo 25 and behold, the power transmission lines are going to stay up 12-11-06 99 1 just like they are right now all the way out to I-10. And the 2 reason why? Too expensive to put them underground. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want to get on that 4 project. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just thought I'd remind 6 people. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought that was a 8 defensive driving course. So, Judge, I move that we authorize 9 the County Judge to write a letter and use whatever verbiage 10 you choose to ask L.C.R.A. to please put it underground, and 11 not visible to Highway 27. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we -- I'll second, but I may 13 vote against it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. Any question or 15 comments on the motion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- I think it needs to -- 17 I'd rather have it say evaluate looking at putting it 18 underground, and if it's not cost-prohibitive doing so. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's up to y'all. You 22 know, whatever verbiage he wants to put in it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the Highway 27 issue, to me, 24 just say we want to protect, you know, the highest priority -- 25 one of the highest priorities is to protect aesthetic -- 12-11-06 100 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want me to authorize 2 Number 3 to write the letter? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a good idea. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He can become the new 7 resident wordsmith. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let him tackle that. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's a wordsmith. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He may write that letter. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you work with the Judge 12 in getting all that verbiage down? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be happy to. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you so much. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 16 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 20 (Commissioner Nicholson voted against the motion.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 22 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did it really? Are you 24 telling me that we got by this thing? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You haven't seen the letter 12-11-06 101 1 yet. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 11; consider, 4 discuss, and take appropriate action on employees' health 5 benefits program Plan B. Commissioner Baldwin. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you very 7 much. And I recently finally woke up and realized that we're 8 phasing out Plan B, and going back and reading through some of 9 my notes and -- and information that Mr. Looney had provided 10 us in past years, I realize that that Plan B was -- all along, 11 the plan was to phase it out. But I couldn't -- I had a 12 couple of employees come to me about it, and I couldn't 13 remember why we wanted to actually phase out Plan B out of the 14 program, so I have asked that question. And I know you all 15 clearly understand it; I'm the only one that doesn't, so I've 16 asked -- asked Ms. Hyde to explain to me why we are phasing 17 out Plan B. And then once you start your -- whoever's going 18 to explain it, once you start the explanation, then I've got 19 some other questions in the middle of it. So, one of y'all? 20 MR. LOONEY: Not my name. 21 MS. HYDE: But I am going to -- I am going to ask 22 that Mr. Looney help remind why and what is going on with 23 regards to Plan B, so you might as well just come on up here. 24 MR. LOONEY: Judge, Commissioners, excuse me. The 25 -- the hill country hay fever has attacked me on the way up 12-11-06 102 1 this morning. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's power lines. 3 MR. LOONEY: It's the power lines. I drove under 4 power lines for too long. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Electric bolt jumped out and 6 got you. 7 MR. LOONEY: Got me. The phasing out of Plan B is 8 -- is not necessarily the correct assumption. Phasing out the 9 funding methods for Plan B is more correct. What was 10 happening was that a -- a premium was being generated for Plan 11 B, and there was a credit being generated for employees. 12 Three years ago we had a credit of well over $100, and then it 13 reduced, I believe, to 90, and then has gone down from there. 14 The concept is to phase it out. The reason is because that 15 money that is being credited to those employees under Plan B 16 is being used for purposes sometimes other than for the 17 purpose -- purchase of the County's health insurance plan. 18 It's being used for other voluntary plans and other forms of 19 reduction to premium. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it was designed -- it was 21 designed -- the credit -- the $100 -- plus-$100 was designed 22 for them, for employees to purchase into the same program? 23 MR. LOONEY: Initially, it -- initially it was not. 24 Initially, when -- before I came, it was used for optional 25 purchases of voluntary insurance products, and may or may not 12-11-06 103 1 have been applied toward premium. I'm not sure. I don't know 2 whether it was applied toward individual premium or not. But 3 under the -- the methods of funding that we're -- that we're 4 moving toward and going to be under, all of the funds that you 5 allocate per employee per month to be used for the county 6 medical plans, A and B, those funds are to be used toward that 7 plan. If you don't -- if you generate a credit and you give a 8 credit to an employee, that credit actually is additional 9 income to that employee. When that credit is generated, you 10 have additional income. Now, you may, under a salary 11 redirection agreement or a salary reduction agreement, use 12 those funds then for -- currently they're used for the 13 purchase of additional insurance, and in some cases used to 14 reduce the premium by an employee for dependent health 15 insurance. 16 But, you know, the redirection should be back toward 17 the County's plan for reduction of premium, because those 18 people are still liable for health care benefits and claims, 19 and they're redirecting premium that we had set up under 20 budget to be used for the payment of premium claims and fixed 21 costs for the medical plan. So, that's the direction. And as 22 Ms. Hyde and I have talked about, you know, projected for next 23 year, we will be into a -- a plan design that will be very, 24 very standard in the insurance industry as far as cafeteria 25 plans are concerned, where you'll have base coverage paid for 12-11-06 104 1 by the County, a credit given to all employees; to every 2 employee, on a nondiscriminating basis, to be used for the 3 purchase of the vol -- of all of these other products that are 4 available. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you give me an example of 6 what product that was -- folks were using to purchase with 7 that credit? 8 MR. LOONEY: They were purchasing cancer care plans, 9 gap plans with -- I'm not sure whether there were disability 10 products. Now, Ms. Hyde probably knows more about all the 11 voluntary plans, because if you'll -- again, if you'll recall, 12 back when I became your consultant, I was not involved with 13 the identification of the voluntary plans. The voluntary 14 plans were all set, so I did not evaluate any of those plans, 15 and have not since. All I've done is worked on the medical 16 piece of it. So -- but Ms. Hyde can give you more. 17 MS. HYDE: It's any of the supplements that have 18 come in, the Met Life for the dental and the vision. There 19 was the cancer plan, disability plan, catastrophic illness 20 plan. Also, vision and dental was presented during all of 21 the -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of those things are 23 outside the county program? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what you're saying is 12-11-06 105 1 that we were giving a credit of -- to how many employees? 2 MR. LOONEY: About 45. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 45 employees of $100 or more, 4 and they were taking that money and going outside the county 5 program and purchasing other products? 6 MR. LOONEY: As I understand it, that's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that is a no-no to do? 8 MR. LOONEY: It's -- it's not appropriate to pay 9 that additional funds to purchase outside, because when we 10 calculate our costs for the medical plan, the intent is for 11 all of those premium dollars to stay within the plan to be 12 used to offset costs from fixed costs and medical claims. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, I'd 15 characterize it as the County got itself in the business of 16 selling insurance plans, and that -- the fact that we were 17 doing that harmed the funding of our own plan. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But what you're telling me is that 19 you are evolving, based on your discussions with Ms. Hyde, 20 into a comprehensive county plan where the -- the base 21 coverage -- medical coverage is provided, and then there's 22 certain allowances that can be utilized for the purpose of 23 taking supplemental -- supplemental coverages within the Kerr 24 County plan. 25 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 12-11-06 106 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where you're going, is to 2 create a comprehensive plan design? 3 MR. LOONEY: So that it's equal for all employees to 4 be able to participate in the same places. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Looney, what might be 6 helpful, just to clear up the picture, if you just refresh our 7 memory of why it's necessary to offer a Plan A and a Plan B. 8 MR. LOONEY: It was just the manner in which we were 9 going to try to -- again, we had -- if you'll remember the old 10 plans, there were, I think, four plans originally that had a 11 wide variety of deductibles and methods, so we created the 12 two. Now, when we move to the next plan design, the base plan 13 will be the only plan that's in that product, and the other 14 supplemental plans will be helping or aiding into that plan 15 cost. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we are evolving to a 17 single plan? 18 MR. LOONEY: We're evolving to one plan. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which means that anybody -- 20 as was the case in my particular instance this time, anybody 21 who wants any of these little supplements can acquire them, 22 but they do so on their own? 23 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 MS. HYDE: However, comma. 12-11-06 107 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However. 2 MS. HYDE: However, comma -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here comes the other shoe. 4 MS. HYDE: When we talk about the -- the vision that 5 we're heading for, we're talking about -- 6 MR. LOONEY: Not vision plan. 7 MS. HYDE: No, not vision plan. What we're looking 8 towards for the future, I mean, for this year, what we want to 9 work on is to add to the basic medical coverage and allow our 10 employees to take responsibility for their health care and 11 what they want. Do they want to pay for dental, or do they 12 want to pay for vision, or do they want to pay for short-term 13 disability? Allow them those opportunities, which is pretty 14 common out in the insurance field, which we have not done. 15 What might be good for you, Commissioner Baldwin, might not be 16 good for Commissioner Nicholson. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. The age difference 18 there is... (Laughter) Blow that out of the water. 19 MS. HYDE: That's not what I meant. 20 MR. LOONEY: Looks like everybody needs a vision 21 plan, though. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I assure you, that's 23 correct. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, these handful of 25 employees that came to me and felt like that we're phasing 12-11-06 108 1 Plan B out, and their $100 they were getting that they were 2 using that to provide some services for their children, will 3 no longer do it that way, but in our -- in our new plan that 4 we're headed toward, there are some options for those people 5 to go to. 6 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not going to get 8 their hundred bucks. It's going to actually cost them some, 9 but there are programs there that meet their needs. 10 MS. HYDE: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, if I was to walk out of 12 here and go talk to one of those employees that said that to 13 me, she would probably look at me like I was an idiot of some 14 sort. I don't know that she would -- and I'm not saying that 15 she wouldn't understand -- not able to understand. 16 MR. LOONEY: Just concerning the health insurance? 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's why we hired 18 Ms. Hyde, so they can yell at her. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where I'm going with 20 it. 21 MS. HYDE: I figured that finger was coming. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hyde, would you be kind 23 enough -- 24 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to make sure -- 12-11-06 109 1 MS. HYDE: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that these people clearly 3 understand. 4 MS. HYDE: Yes. They can come down -- they can come 5 down and talk to us, or if you y'all want to tell me later who 6 some of them are that have talked to you, then we can make 7 plans to sit down with the employees. We have sat down with 8 others and we showed them the benefits, plus and minus. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a clear picture. 10 Carry on, men. 11 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Smoke 'em if you got 'em. 13 MS. HYDE: I guess I get to stand here again, don't 14 I? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- that's the end of it for 17 you on this one? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Heck, yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything to offer 20 on that particular agenda item? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a general 22 comment, that I think that the employees need to understand, 23 and I think the public and everyone else, that, you know, our 24 health insurance plan is pretty darn good for employees. We 25 probably have one of the -- if you talk to the people at 12-11-06 110 1 K.I.S.D. or City of Kerrville or other entities around here, 2 other counties, I think -- I don't think anywhere they're 3 going to have a better plan than we offer. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. My doctor, it 6 blew his hair back, what hair he has. Got excited about it. 7 He couldn't believe it was happening here in Kerr County. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I just think people need to 9 acknowledge, I mean, that overall, we have an extremely 10 good -- and I think that we've done a lot of work to try to 11 get there, and are continuing to improve it step by step. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: How many employees do we have under 13 the plan now? 14 MS. HYDE: Under the plan currently? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 MS. HYDE: The number fluctuates between 297 and 17 309. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, say 300. We're talking about 19 over $2 million that we budget for that, so it's a significant 20 matter. 21 MS. HYDE: The health benefits of the county is 22 almost -- it was almost 65 percent of cost. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Just talking about the health -- what 24 we budget for our -- our health plan alone is over $2 million 25 right now, based on 300 employees. 12-11-06 111 1 MR. LOONEY: 2.118. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Let's go to Item 12; 3 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action establishing 4 policy for bond and/or insurance requirements for county 5 elected officials, department heads, and employees who handle 6 or have access to Kerr County funds. I put this on the agenda 7 as a result of some items discussed previously concerning 8 bonding requirements of -- of elected officials, and it 9 broadened out to include anyone who is required to post a bond 10 or otherwise handle or have access to county funds. Ms. Hyde? 11 MS. HYDE: I wasn't present at the meeting when 12 y'all asked for this, so I -- I have talked to each one of you 13 individually to try to make sure that I was putting together 14 what you were looking for. So, I tried to make it real 15 simple. I took this book, the oath and bond requirements that 16 Ms. Pieper was very gracious to let me borrow, and just went 17 straight down the list and put in the current position, your 18 name, the amount of the bond, and if I had the costing for it, 19 I put that in there. And then I put down what the oath and 20 bond requirements 2006 state that we should need, and there's 21 a couple that -- that look a little bit different. For 22 example, if you go to the second page, on the J.P.'s, there is 23 nothing for J.P. clerks in the book. There's nothing in there 24 for them, but what the J.P.'s have done is, for themselves 25 it's a $5,000 bond, and for their assistants or their clerks, 12-11-06 112 1 it's $10,000. Except for J.P. 4, who made it $5,000 for both 2 himself and his clerk. So, that's how I put this together. I 3 mean, if there was any sort of difference, it should -- it 4 should stand out. I put down exactly what it says. As far as 5 Ms. Uecker's bond, we were talking about increasing yours, 6 correct? 7 MS. UECKER: Yeah, mine's going to 100. 8 MS. HYDE: It needs to go to 100,000. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, why -- why does yours 10 need to go to 100,000? 11 MS. UECKER: Because 20 percent of my last year's 12 intake is -- well, less last year's income was -- 13 MS. HYDE: 1.2 million. 14 MS. UECKER: $1.2 million. 20 percent of that is 15 239. The statute maxes it at 100. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that's the same law that 17 we looked at for the -- in the Treasurer's issue? 18 MS. HYDE: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not the same numbers 21 and same -- 22 MS. HYDE: No. 23 MS. UECKER: Each elected official has a separate 24 statute. 25 MS. HYDE: It's convoluted. It doesn't match up. 12-11-06 113 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was close to that. 2 MS. HYDE: But on Ms. Uecker's, it's supposed to be 3 20 percent; it's 240,000 on 1.2 million. So, right now she 4 has 50,000, so it does need to go up to be 20 percent. 5 MS. UECKER: I talked to them this morning, 6 Ms. Hyde, and they're raising it to 100. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are any others not correct? 8 MS. HYDE: Well, it's not that they're -- I don't 9 want to say that they're not correct. This book -- although 10 some of these are very, I mean, specific. For example, 11 Commissioners Court, it's three grand apiece, except for the 12 Judge. The Judge can be from here to here, at your 13 discretion. But on some of them, there's just nothing. 14 There's nothing for the J.P. clerks, there's nothing for the 15 Deputy Treasurer; there's nothing really in writing for that. 16 On the Treasurer, it was -- you know, I had been asked to look 17 at that one as well, and it says it's not to exceed a half of 18 1 percent of the largest amount budgeted for general county 19 maintenance and operations, and it's not to be less than five 20 grand or more than 500,000. So, if you take that math, based 21 off of the County Auditor's budget lines, for us, for the 22 general maintenance, it should be about $80,000 to $90,000, if 23 you -- if you base it solely off of that. But there's nothing 24 in there for, you know a lot of folks' deputies. Or if you 25 just cover the deputy, then you don't cover the rest of your 12-11-06 114 1 employees, so they give you an option in some places for the 2 County Clerk, for the Tax Assessor, for the County Auditor, 3 for your assistants or your deputies, to be included in a 4 bond. Or you can even go farther and do all your employees. 5 So, I mean, they're very specific, but it's -- then some of 6 them, there's just nothing. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even though it says nothing, 8 we do it anyway? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes. That's why -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We bond these people anyway? 11 MS. HYDE: This is everyone that has a bond. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MS. HYDE: And on bonds, if there's nothing in the 14 book, I put I could find nothing in the book. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- as I understand it 16 from talking with you, there -- in addition to the bonds, we 17 have various types of insurance -- 18 MS. HYDE: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in offices? 20 MS. HYDE: For example, for Ms. Uecker again, she 21 has to have insurance, and she has to have additional 22 insurance. So, if you go to that third page, it's pretty much 23 the District Clerk. She has to have the first bond, which 24 we're going to raise to 100,000 paid to the governor. She has 25 to have an insurance requirement. It must equal the maximum 12-11-06 115 1 amount of fees collected in any year during the term, must be 2 at least 20,000, but is not more than 700. She has it at 3 500,000. If the policy or coverage provides coverage for 4 other county officials, it's got to be a million bucks. She 5 also has additional insurance requirements that each District 6 Clerk will have an insurance policy or similar coverage to 7 cover losses due to burglary, theft, robbery, counterfeit 8 currency, or destruction. Must be 20,000, but not more than 9 700. So, it's pretty -- hers is pretty large. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You have any additional comments or 11 observations you want to make about that, Ms. Uecker? 12 MS. UECKER: Well, I think I know why there's no 13 statutory requirements on J.P.'s deputies. And I don't know 14 if it's still that way, but at one time there was no 15 requirement -- and I know this from working with the 16 Legislature for years and years -- that a J.P.'s assistant 17 even be deputized. Now, I don't know if that's still the case 18 or not, but at one time there was no requirement to deputize a 19 J.P.'s assistant. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From your research, Ms. Hyde, is 21 there a mechanism where -- anyone that is, I mean, required to 22 have these bonds, you got to have them, and anything that's by 23 statute, obviously, we have to comply with that. But we -- 24 but I -- like, in the J.P.'s and, you know, several other 25 offices, there are individuals that are handling dollars, 12-11-06 116 1 cash. Is there a way that we can put all of those individuals 2 under one insurance policy? 'Cause -- does that make sense to 3 do something like that? 4 MS. HYDE: I don't know if you can put it under one 5 insurance policy, based on what this says. But the good news 6 is that the County Clerk's office, the Tax Assessor's office, 7 and the District Clerk's Office all currently have those 8 insurance policies in place. 9 MR. EMERSON: Me too. 10 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry, I forgot our County Attorney. 11 I'm sorry. Sorry, Rex. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What other -- and so the ones 13 that are not that handle money are the Treasurer's office 14 doesn't have it, and the J.P.'s? 15 MS. HYDE: I don't know -- I don't know if Barbara's 16 office has an insurance policy, 'cause it wasn't given to me 17 in any of this. The only thing that I got from the Clerk's 18 office was just the bonds on the Treasurer and the Deputy 19 Treasurer. 20 MS. NEMEC: Debbie's bonded. 21 MS. HYDE: I got the bond on the Deputy Treasurer 22 and the Treasurer, but I don't have any insurance. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: J.P.'s handle money. Also, 24 Animal Control handles money. 25 MS. HYDE: There's nothing for Animal Control. 12-11-06 117 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, so does the 2 Maintenance Department for booking at the Ag Barn, those 3 facilities. They handle money too. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think -- yeah. I think 5 Environmental Health collects quite a bit of money. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think anyone that handles 7 money needs to either be -- have some sort of bond or 8 insurance. 9 MS. HYDE: The only person from Environmental Health 10 that has it is Mr. North, and he's a deputy constable. He's 11 got $1,500. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Probably a holdover to our 13 old organization where he was the only one in it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, Ms. Hyde. 16 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Deputy County Clerk, an 18 appointed position, is bonded in the amount of $60,000. 19 Deputy -- or Chief Deputy Tax Assessor/Collector is unbonded. 20 MS. HYDE: She's covered underneath the criminal -- 21 commercial crime bond. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. And that -- that 23 insurance policy in the Tax Office would cover -- 24 MS. HYDE: Any theft in the Tax Office. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of those other folk who 12-11-06 118 1 handle money -- 2 MS. HYDE: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- from licensing and -- 4 MS. HYDE: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- taxes and so forth, it's 6 a blanket coverage for that department? 7 MS. HYDE: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MS. HYDE: And the County Clerk has got 300,000. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: As a crime policy. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, based on this, the two 13 offices that need -- by statute, need to be increased are the 14 District Clerk and the Treasurer? 15 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct? 17 MS. HYDE: Unless I'm reading it wrong. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we still have some -- 19 MS. HYDE: That are not. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that are not. 21 MS. HYDE: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we need to -- 23 MS. HYDE: You got Animal Control, everyone in 24 health -- Environmental Health; that hasn't -- and Juvenile 25 Probation. I believe that they're under different rules, but 12-11-06 119 1 Olga Ozuna does have a bond, because she collects money in 2 that office. So -- but Animal Control does not. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the most -- well, 4 cost-effective and practicality -- or practical way to do it, 5 to get bonds on all these other offices, anyone that handles 6 money? Make it a county policy? Or can there be an insurance 7 that picks up -- 8 MS. HYDE: Well, for $10,000, it's $177.50 to bond. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But most of them probably 10 wouldn't -- 11 MS. HYDE: Most of them are less than that. You can 12 get -- for example, if Animal Control or Environmental Health 13 does their -- turns in their money daily or weekly, I think if 14 we put something to that effect, and also we can decrease the 15 amount of money that they would have to have, and that way 16 it's kind of set up so that they're not set up to fail, or 17 that there could be a -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So it's kind of the 19 two-pronged effect. 20 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One's a policy to get funds into 22 our depository -- 23 MS. HYDE: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- fast, and then the other one 25 is to get a bond on those people. 12-11-06 120 1 MS. HYDE: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice another disparity 3 here in terms of the J.P.'s. Three of the J.P.'s has elected 4 officials bonded at 10,000, and then Number 4 is only bonded 5 at five. 6 MS. HYDE: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Perhaps we should correct 8 that. 9 MS. HYDE: The J.P. clerk for Number 4, she -- hers 10 is $5,000; the J.P.'s are $5,000. Their clerks -- there's 11 nothing in there, with the exception of, you know, the J.P.'s, 12 so everyone else, J.P. 1, 2, and 3, all have their clerks at 13 10,000 except Mr. Ragsdale -- Judge Ragsdale has -- has his 14 clerk at five, just like his. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I read it wrong. 16 MS. HYDE: It kind of falls in line with what this 17 book says for the most part. If you have -- you know, the 18 elected official versus their deputy or their assistant should 19 be at least to what the elected official is. The only other 20 one that -- that was different was constable of Precinct 3. 21 He's at 5,000, but the statute says 1,500. But the -- I also 22 heard that it had something to do with I-10, but I haven't 23 been able to find out anything more than that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't think that 25 that's true, because Precinct 1 has a large part of I-10 too. 12-11-06 121 1 MS. HYDE: Well, that was the argument that -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His ought to be the same. 3 MS. HYDE: So I don't know if there's something 4 different on -- on Constable Garza. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If the statutory language is set by 6 the Court, amount not less than 500 or more than 1,500, I 7 think we're capped at 1,500. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Why is it 5,000? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reduce that one? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to reduce that one? 13 MS. HYDE: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's what they 15 said. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, here's one. The 19 County Attorney, Melvin Rex Emerson. 20 MR. EMERSON: That's my alias. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At 2,500. And, of course, 22 his assistant is zero, and the County Surveyor, 2,500. County 23 surveyor's just as important as you are, Melvin. 24 MR. EMERSON: Probably more so. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And both of them are more 12-11-06 122 1 important than we are. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, absolutely. Why on the 3 County Surveyor? I mean, he does nothing. 4 MS. HYDE: It's in the book, Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The man's the top 6 vote-getter in Kerr County. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess that's worth 8 something, huh? I guess. He handles not a penny. He 9 doesn't -- when he does work, we hire him and pay him. It's 10 not -- maybe he needs to do county work free. That's kind of 11 where my mind was going. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or if we do it, we lower it to 14 500. Which is what it says, not less than 500. Isn't that 15 the right one? 16 MS. HYDE: Yeah. The county -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you think it's required 18 that the County Surveyor, even ours, be bonded? 19 MS. HYDE: I'm going by the book, and the book says 20 not less than 500 nor more than 10,000. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it needs to be 22 lowered to 500. I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, why not? I mean -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to find as you get down 12-11-06 123 1 below 10,000 that the cost for a bond -- there's not going to 2 be a direct-proportion reduction. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde, one more time, 5 which departments have an insurance policy? Besides the 6 County Attorney and the Tax Office. 7 MS. HYDE: The County Clerk's office, the District 8 Clerk's Office, and the Tax Assessor's office. Of course, and 9 the County Attorney's office that I left off. 10 MR. EMERSON: Just for my two cent's worth, you're 11 talking about cost. The insurance policy to cover all 12 employees in my office for dishonesty for up to $100,000 is 13 less than $300 a year. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it? So, I mean, insurance is 15 likely less than the bond? 16 MR. EMERSON: It is in my office. I can't attest to 17 the other offices. 18 MS. HYDE: For 500,000, it's $1,983 for the District 19 Clerk. And Judge Brown also has a $500,000 policy. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it seems we ought to go 21 ahead and make the four changes -- or three changes, anyway, 22 against the -- reduce the Constable 3, and the Treasurer's and 23 District Clerk's get raised to what the law prescribes. Then 24 I think we need to look at the -- anyone else that handles 25 money under a policy that you're working on, correct? 12-11-06 124 1 MS. HYDE: Okay. Do you want -- what about -- okay, 2 so decrease Constable, Precinct 3 -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To what the law says. 4 MS. HYDE: Decrease the County Surveyor? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That one -- I mean, if it 6 costs -- I'd -- if the cost doesn't vary that much, it 7 probably doesn't make any difference. 8 MS. PIEPER: I think he pays for his own bond as 9 well, if I'm not mistaken. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make it much bigger, then. 11 (Laughter.) Okay. If he pays for it. 12 MS. PIEPER: I believe he does. I could be wrong, 13 but -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What other ones are you 16 talking about here? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Treasurer to 80,000, then 18 the District Clerk from 50 to 100. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm wondering about the 20 Deputy Treasurer, whether that also should be increased. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's not a statutory one. 22 That's a -- the Deputy Treasurer, is that statutory? Or is 23 that -- 24 MS. HYDE: No, there's nothing in the book for the 25 deputy. 12-11-06 125 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. NEMEC: I've just always done it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. And I think we need 4 to -- do you know what that costs, Barbara, for the deputy? 5 MS. NEMEC: $75. I think it's $75 or $50 for 5,000. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably -- well, I'd like to 7 find out what the -- we clearly have to add some bonds to the 8 Environmental Health, Animal Control, some of these others. 9 Granted, not real large. If we can get an insurance policy to 10 cover, seems to me, certainly those that report straight to 11 the Court, then see whether insurance or bond is the best way 12 to do the Treasurer's deputy. It would seem to me everyone 13 that reports to the Court, they ought to be able to get under 14 one insurance, 'cause it's not that much we're talking, 15 dollars-wise. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one blanket policy 17 total? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For Animal Control, 19 Environmental Health. I don't know if Road and Bridge -- they 20 don't ever collect any fees. 21 MS. HYDE: Road and Bridge have theirs. They have a 22 $12,000 bond. 23 MS. NEMEC: Is Ms. Hyde going to be responsible for 24 getting them now? We always used to be responsible. Is 25 she -- 12-11-06 126 1 MS. HYDE: For getting what? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bonds. 3 MS. HYDE: Would it not be based on what this says 4 in here? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no, be responsible for the 6 actual acquisition of them, what Ms. Nemec is asking, as 7 opposed to in the past, I think each elected official was 8 responsible for making sure they got their bond. Are you 9 going to take that on now? 10 MS. HYDE: I think we ought to keep it with who has 11 it right now. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the elected official. 15 MS. HYDE: We can look at the others for the 16 insurance and see if we can consolidate the insurance portion. 17 I can help with that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Elected official's responsible. 19 MS. NEMEC: So just get it? Okay. 20 MS. HYDE: So, are we looking to increase the 21 Treasurer's? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To -- the statute says 80,000 or 23 whatever, yes, and then District Clerk, 100. 24 MS. HYDE: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Constable 3 to 1,500. 12-11-06 127 1 MS. HYDE: Bring him down. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be that the cost 3 wouldn't cost any more to get additional, but I think it still 4 ought to do what the law says. It says not to exceed. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Those are the bonds that 6 you're talking about? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second as 13 indicated. Any further -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got them all? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so, unless you got 16 some others. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The others, I think, are insurance 18 items that we're going to be looking at. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just surprised that you 20 actually did it. I thought we'd come back later. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 22 the motion that was made? 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just an observation. This 24 is good work. 25 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 12-11-06 128 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And isn't it good to have 2 professional staff to help us get our work done? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hear, hear. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm -- I'm pretty well blown away by 7 what she was able to put together on a fairly short notice 8 when she wasn't here when we dropped this in her lap. Had you 9 been here, it may not have gotten dropped in your lap. So -- 10 MS. HYDE: I'll be here next time. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It's kind of like -- 12 MS. HYDE: You taught me my lesson. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: By default, when you're not there... 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lessons learned, huh? 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, she whined about 17 it all the way. 18 MS. HYDE: I sure have. I have come to each one of 19 y'all just to make sure that I met or exceeded those 20 expectations. If y'all need any copies, they're here. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 22 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12-11-06 129 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. You're going to 3 look at insurance requirements on -- 4 MS. HYDE: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- non-elected officials to try and 6 cover these gaps? 7 MS. HYDE: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What's the Court's pleasure? 9 We've still got some more to do. Do you want to break for 10 lunch or blow through? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we better break for 12 lunch. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll be in recess until about 14 1:30, maybe a hair after. 15 (Recess taken from 12:15 p.m. to 1:41 p.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 18 might. We were in recess for lunch. Let's go to Item 13; 19 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to ban aerial 20 fireworks in Kerr County for the December and January '06 -- 21 should that be '06-dash-'07? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I believe so. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Statutory sales and holiday period. 24 Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda based 12-11-06 130 1 on a letter we received from the Texas Association of 2 Counties, that if we need to -- if we are going to put on a 3 ban on aerial fireworks, it has to be done by the 15th of this 4 month. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same order as last year? I 6 think it is. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's -- 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just banning -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- banning aerial fireworks. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Two classifications. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, personally, with the 12 drought conditions we're in, I'm in favor of it, and make a 13 motion to approve the order prohibiting fireworks as outlined 14 in the attached order. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Skyrockets with sticks and 16 missiles with fins. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I love that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 20 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 12-11-06 131 1 Item 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 2 court order dated 11/28/06, to hire additional maintenance 3 person. Commissioner Letz, I think you indicated that's a 4 pass? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That is a pass. That has been 6 taken care of; that person has been handled. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a person was hired. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 15, consider, discuss, and take 10 appropriate action on organization of Maintenance and 11 Custodial departments. Commissioner Letz again, indication of 12 possible executive session. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a pass also. This is 14 actually a -- a backup to the earlier one related to the Ag 15 Barn, just in case we want to look at personnel issues related 16 to the booking and things of that nature. But that is -- was 17 not done today, so this will not be done or needed either. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 16; 19 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for request for 20 approval by joint City/County economic development strategy 21 committee to make application to Economic Improvement 22 Corporation to fund comprehensive economic development study. 23 I put this on the agenda. The -- as you recall, the City and 24 the County both passed an economic development strategy 25 resolution with the appointment of a -- a committee to handle 12-11-06 132 1 that matter. Commissioner Williams and I are the county reps 2 on it. There are two council -- City Council people on it, 3 and the rest of the nine-member committee was put in place, 4 and the clear consensus of the committee was that in order to 5 move forward, that we needed a comprehensive economic 6 development study. And the -- the committee suggested that 7 application be made to the Economic Improvement Corporation to 8 fund that study. I -- in discussing going to the E.I.C., why, 9 the consensus was also that it was thought appropriate to have 10 the approval of the two governing agencies to -- for the 11 committee to go to E.I.C. for that. It would be at no cost to 12 the County or the City, either one. We'd be asking for that 13 funding to come from the -- from the E.I.C. So, that's why 14 it's before you, is for approval to -- at least Commissioner 15 Williams and I, as members of that committee, to be able to 16 represent to the committee that the Court is in favor or -- or 17 is willing to authorize us to go ahead on the County's behalf 18 in asking for that. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, you recall our 20 discussion upstairs about it -- and I know why it's on here 21 and I would support it, but you recall during that discussion, 22 I brought to our group's attention that we were -- the Airport 23 Board was working with the Airport Manager with respect to his 24 desire to do a business plan for the airport. I raised the 25 question, is it possible to consolidate these efforts and do 12-11-06 133 1 everything at one time; do you recall that? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I just wanted to bring 4 it to your attention, 'cause I think it's important to this 5 whole discussion. In -- in the -- there's $160,000 that 6 he's -- that he's planning to spend for an airport board -- 7 for an airport master plan. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Business plan. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Business plan. Business 10 plan, I'm sorry. Which is twice the amount of money we're 11 talking about spending here for county-wide, and -- you know. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Overall economic improvement. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. And it just blows my 14 mind, 160,000, and not putting that together with what you and 15 I are trying to accomplish with the -- other folks upstairs. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who's paying that 160? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Believe it or not, TexDOT is 18 putting up 90 percent of that money. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: See, there -- Kerrville is 20 spending 50,000 of their money to do a study of the library 21 campus. We don't know what kind of library we're going to 22 have in ten years. First you decide what you want or think 23 you're going to have, and then you -- then you do a study. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- there have been some 25 developments since this was run through the committee, and 12-11-06 134 1 what I was hoping to do was have the committee itself be the 2 applicant for the E.I.C. There is some thought now of 3 being -- being given to -- having the E.I.C. actually be the 4 one to obtain this -- this study, have ownership. They'll put 5 up the funds. Wouldn't even be necessary to make an 6 application, but we would have access to the information. 7 Either way is -- is fine with the committee members that I've 8 talked to, as long as we have access to the information. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do you mean by access? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the right to use the 11 information, and that we also have input into what's to be 12 included. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- that is real important, 15 because in developing economic development strategy, there's 16 some other things that need to be rolled into it, as opposed 17 to just a generic type study. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- I would be a little 19 reluctant to turn over a county-wide economic package to 20 E.I.C. I see E.I.C. as having an awful close relationship 21 just with the City. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In fact, they have to get 24 special permission to do anything outside of city limits. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, on the special 12-11-06 135 1 committee, of course, there are two City Councilmen serving 2 with the Judge and myself. And so, you know, they know what's 3 taken place, and both of those -- or one of them's Chuck, 4 right? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Chuck's on E.I.C. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chuck sits on E.I.C. now. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's a second one, too. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Todd? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair of E.I.C., Priour. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. So, the only 11 thought there is to get them to fund it. And, you know, I 12 don't have any problem with that. They can fund it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I -- I have no problem 14 with doing this and going to them to fund it, but I think it's 15 going to have a little -- I think it needs to have an arm's 16 length from E.I.C. in -- in doing the study. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that was the original 18 intent, but this group the Judge is chairing, we're going to 19 be the ones who commission the study. And E.I.C.'s also going 20 to provide the funding for it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I have no problem with 22 that, but we can have it all done in -- you know, as a -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I raised the other point, 24 though, because here we go off down the street another 25 direction, with twice as much money to do an airport business 12-11-06 136 1 plan than our committee's asking to do a county-wide plan. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I agree. And that -- I 3 mean, I visited with -- briefly with another Airport Board 4 member this morning on that topic, and as to what we're 5 getting with that, and it's a -- going to be on, I believe, 6 our January agenda for the Airport Board -- January or 7 February to go through it. Because the clear intent was to 8 get a -- a plan about this thick for the airport that's 9 usable, and experience shows me that if you have 160,000, 10 you're going to get a plan this thick that's not usable. So, 11 I think there's a lot still to be said on what happens with 12 the airport plan, and I look at that as it's up to 160,000 we 13 can spend. But I just cannot imagine we'll approve that much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: When -- when we were originally 15 talking about getting the study done, Commissioner Williams 16 mentioned the fact that it appeared -- I don't think at that 17 time it had been determined, but there was at least something 18 underway to get a business plan for the airport done, and 19 possibly we could figure out a way to roll these two together 20 with the business plan for the airport to use the basic 21 underlying data. And then, as a -- as a separate information 22 relative to that, in addition to what we needed, and I think 23 it was a great idea, but we got to be able to glue the two 24 pieces together. And if TexDOT's doing the funding over 25 there, or the majority of the funding, I would assume they're 12-11-06 137 1 going to maintain pretty tight control over what it is and who 2 does it and what else it includes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to recommend 4 consultants; am I correct? Then we can choose from their 5 list. Whatever. I think we should move forward with this; 6 there's no question about that. I just -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to remember the other 8 ones going on, too. They need to at least mesh. You don't 9 want two completely different documents. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm afraid that you try to 13 put them together here today, and you -- one is going to queer 14 the other. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There'll be enough opposition 18 in there that just -- it's not going to get over the hurdle 19 and get going. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I don't want to create 21 that hurdle. I really don't. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your thought, though, is 23 absolutely excellent. My question is, when is the last time 24 we've done a comprehensive economic development study? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Approximately five years ago. 12-11-06 138 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Five -- a little more than five now, 3 I'm given to understand. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those things don't last very 5 long. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, they really don't. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have we ever done an airport 8 business study? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done an airport master 10 plan. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a business plan. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Never have done a business 14 plan? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Business development plan. 16 We have a master plan for the airport itself. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that business plan, that 18 includes, like, what type of businesses you should put on the 19 property? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And categories and how you 21 can go after them and that stuff. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where you should put them and 23 all that? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we've already decided 25 where -- where businesses are going to be placed on the 12-11-06 139 1 airport property, but this would identify aviation and 2 non-aviation type businesses, and perhaps go after -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's more of a blueprint 4 as to how to do it, as to -- I mean, kind of a user's guide to 5 give the Airport Manager as to, "This is what we can offer." 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I firmly believe that 7 if you're going to do the study and it costs money, let 8 somebody else pay for it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 10 item. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion on the motion? 14 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 15 hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We're now to 20 our 11:30 timed item. Should have left it at 2 o'clock where 21 it was originally, but optimism always is good. Animal 22 Control. 23 MS. ROMAN: Let's see, where do I start? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can get a stool or 25 something to stand on so we can see you. 12-11-06 140 1 MS. ROMAN: We've got a whole lot going on at Animal 2 Control right now. The gentleman that donated the -- the new 3 building has decided that he wanted to do a little bit more 4 for us. He donated a -- a nice gas power washer, and now he 5 has decided that he wants to fence in the back area and plant 6 some grass and make kind of like a little -- just a little 7 park area with benches and stuff where people -- adoptees can 8 bring the dogs out, you know, and let them run around and see 9 if that's what they really want, play ball with them, 10 whatever. You know, kind of play with them a little bit 11 before they actually adopt them. We also have Danny Feller -- 12 and you can see this is the area where the -- the new little 13 park is going to be. Danny Feller is there today putting in 14 the sides. When they originally built the -- the addition, 15 they didn't put sides on the building. They wanted it -- he 16 wanted it that way. With the weather the way it's been, it's 17 just not working, so we had to put tarps all the way around 18 it, and with the wind, it's just not -- it's just not working 19 at all. So he came back in, called Danny Feller, bought some 20 material, and we have them closing it up today. You're going 21 to love this. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Janie, would you be able to 23 take it back off in the spring? 24 MS. ROMAN: With -- well, what it's going to do is, 25 it's going to be on hinges. It's going to be sheet metal on 12-11-06 141 1 hinges where you can lift them up. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, fantastic. 3 MS. ROMAN: And drop them back down, so you can open 4 it or close it as you like. As far as my adoptions, they have 5 really, really gone up. In the last five years, we have never 6 adopted out more than 232 animals per -- for that year, per 7 year. We've adopted out between 205 and 232 animals in the 8 last five years. In the last two months, October and 9 November, we've already adopted out 111 animals. My 10 euthanasia rate has been cut in half. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 12 MS. ROMAN: And my reclaims have gone up. So, 13 obviously, we're getting the message across to people. 14 They're coming in, reclaiming; they're coming in and adopting. 15 It's going really well. We had an idea -- I spoke with 16 Mr. Ginsbach, the gentleman that donated the new expansion, 17 and we decided that we thought it would be a good idea to 18 start opening on weekends, 8:00 to -- 8:00 to noon, four hours 19 on Saturdays. There's a lot of -- a lot of people that want 20 to come in on weekends, and we're closed. They can't make it 21 during the week. We've had a lot of people calling from San 22 Antonio wanting to come in during the week. I think you got a 23 couple of complaints about us not staying till 6:00, 7 o'clock 24 in the evening waiting on people. So, we decided that we 25 wanted to open on -- on weekends. And what we're going to do 12-11-06 142 1 is, whoever works that weekend, -- more than likely, it's 2 going to be me -- I'll take half a day off, or if it's one of 3 -- you know, one of the other employees, they'll work four 4 hours on Saturday and take half a day off during the week. 5 But we thought that would raise our adoptions even more. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- I've noticed some ads in the 7 newspaper. Is Pat paying for those, too? 8 MS. ROMAN: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I kind of thought he was. 10 MS. ROMAN: He's paying for the ads. I don't know 11 if y'all noticed in the newspaper, when we reached our 100th 12 adoption, he gave a $100 prize to the person that adopted the 13 100th dog. Well, he's going to do the same thing for the 14 500th; he's going to give a $500 prize. So -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you give us the inside 16 info on that? I'll run out and adopt one. 17 MS. ROMAN: I had one guy call and said, "I'm going 18 to come adopt 20 of them if that gets me the $500." So, 19 we are -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could also dump them 21 somewhere. 22 MS. ROMAN: -- going to start using volunteers. 23 I've talked to Rex about the liability issue. We're going to 24 draw up a -- a waiver of some sort and start using volunteers. 25 I think one of the reasons that we didn't use volunteers in 12-11-06 143 1 the past was because we had such a high euthanasia rate, and 2 it just -- you know, most of the people that -- that come in 3 and want to volunteer love animals, as do we. But they just 4 couldn't understand why it was that we had to euthanize so 5 many animals. And now that our euthanasia rate has been cut 6 and our adoptions have gone up, I think this would be a great 7 time to start using volunteers. So -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And they would be -- they would be 9 available to assist on weekends also? 10 MS. ROMAN: Yes. Yes. And Pat is lining that up as 11 well. So, he has been amazing. He has just been great. 12 Great. I mean, if we need anything -- also, he ordered some 13 backpacks and had them embroidered, and caps and had those 14 embroidered, so anytime someone comes in and adopts an animal, 15 they get to pick either a cap or a backpack, and it says 16 "K.C.A.C., Spay/Neuter" -- I don't remember what all it says. 17 I think -- didn't you get a cap? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know anything about 19 it. 20 MS. ROMAN: I think I gave you a cap. 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, he did. 22 MS. ROMAN: They're really neat. He's really helped 23 us out a whole lot. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I found it. 25 MS. ROMAN: So, things are going good. Last night, 12-11-06 144 1 I was there pretty late; we had a flood. The toilet -- 2 something happened to the toilet and it ran all day, and so I 3 had to go to the Ag Barn and get a shop vac and clean up water 4 and all of that stuff. So, we've had -- we had a bunch of 5 boxes of paperwork that were -- that got wet, so we're trying 6 to sort all of that out and dry everything out, but other than 7 that, everything's going good. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: On your adoption rate, are any of 9 those coming back to you? 10 MS. ROMAN: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. ROMAN: No. I've had a couple come back, you 13 know, but -- I don't know, maybe two or three in the last six 14 months, if that many. So -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: So your return rate on adoptions is 16 minimal? 17 MS. ROMAN: Very. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MS. ROMAN: Very. And that's about it. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's been very helpful to 21 have an angel. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the money was a big 24 part of it, but it's his interest. We already have 25 volunteers. He's out there -- 12-11-06 145 1 MS. ROMAN: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- daily. But even with 3 all that, without good leadership and the teamwork, these -- 4 these goals wouldn't have been achieved. So -- 5 MS. ROMAN: Well, I have to say, I have to give 6 credit to the two new girls that I've got. Those girls are 7 absolutely amazing. They really go above and beyond to get 8 things done, to make sure that, you know, everything's done. 9 And I give them all the credit in the world for -- for our 10 adoption rates going up. They really, really work hard. 11 So -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And, of course, that's consistent 13 with Pat's efforts. 14 MS. ROMAN: Oh, absolutely. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Everything's he's doing -- 16 MS. ROMAN: Absolutely. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is focused on adoption and getting 18 to a no-kill situation. 19 MS. ROMAN: Right. Right. He also had a big 20 sign -- I don't know if any of y'all have -- have drove by 21 there, but there's also a great big sign out front that says, 22 "Save a life, adopt a pet." So, we put that up. And the day 23 we put that up, we had people driving by and honking, and I am 24 not kidding you, we were swamped the rest of that day with 25 people stopping in. And we also -- I also started letting 12-11-06 146 1 people foster the animals again. We stopped doing that years 2 ago because people weren't returning the animal -- you know, 3 the animals, or they weren't coming back in and paying for 4 them and such. But I don't think it was being done properly. 5 Now we're taking -- we're getting copies of their driver's 6 license and, you know, things like that, and it's going real 7 well. I'd prefer that people come in and foster an animal for 8 a few days before they actually pay for it. I don't want 9 people coming in and just saying, "Oh, I want that dog," and 10 then bringing it back or letting it run loose or whatever. 11 And so it's going -- it's going real well. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Janie, why foster them? I 13 mean, are they trying them out to see if they want to own one? 14 MS. ROMAN: Well, a lot of times I -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is it -- is it a -- you 16 know, "My neighbors are coming over for dinner; I'd better 17 have a dog here so they'll know I'm a dog man"? What is it? 18 MS. ROMAN: No, they want to make sure that they -- 19 either the dog gets along with their kids or with their other 20 pets. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 22 MS. ROMAN: You know, and things like that, whereas 23 if they come in and just -- they like a dog and they take it 24 and it doesn't work out, well, they lose their $45, And we get 25 a dog back. That -- you know, so I'd prefer that they -- they 12-11-06 147 1 do that anyway. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty cool. 3 MS. ROMAN: And it's -- it's going well. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And fostering also, more often than 5 not, evolves into permanent adoption. 6 MS. ROMAN: Right. Right. And that also clears up 7 a little bit more space at the shelter so that we bring in 8 more animals and we're not having to euthanize as many. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are we doing on feral cats? 10 MS. ROMAN: Well, we've got Pam Warner that is doing 11 the trap, spay and neuter and release program. I've -- I've 12 had a lot of people that really don't like that idea, but if 13 you really look at it long-term, I think it's really going to 14 work. I know -- I mean, we did a little bit of research, and 15 in other cities it's really worked. We have got such a bad 16 feral cat problem in this county. It's a really, really bad 17 problem, so -- and we've already started to see a change, an 18 improvement. If you have all of these animals -- for 19 instance, a colony of -- of cats over at Luby's. I think she 20 started three years ago. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Luby's Cafeteria? 22 MS. ROMAN: Mm-hmm. She started three years ago, 23 and we had a bad problem out there. We were just trapping 24 them. And because we were just trapping them and euthanizing 25 them, and you still had all of these females out there 12-11-06 148 1 breeding. Well, Pam has gone in -- they trap these cats; they 2 have them spayed, and then they release them so they're not 3 reproducing. Now, we have an agreement that if we trap one, 4 or if someone traps a cat, that one doesn't go back out. 5 We -- we euthanize it. If it's a feral cat, we euthanize it. 6 So, it -- it's helping, because in the long -- in the long 7 run, what's going to happen is that colony is eventually going 8 to die down and they're not reproducing, whereas if we just 9 trap and euthanize, we still have all of those out there that 10 are -- that are reproducing. So, that seems to be working. 11 We're not getting near as many feral cats in as we used to. 12 What we have had a problem with this year is skunks, and I've 13 only had one positive case this year, and that was in a fox. 14 But other than that, that's -- that's pretty much it. We've 15 been dealing a lot with loose livestock as well, and we're 16 keeping them out at the Ag Barn. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't have any of mine, do 18 you? 19 MS. ROMAN: No. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good job. 21 MS. ROMAN: Pardon? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good job. 23 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 25 MS. ROMAN: You're welcome. Bye. 12-11-06 149 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wonder if any 2 achievements can be attributed to the new sidewalk out there. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure they all can. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can be what? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Attributed to our new 6 sidewalk. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What a great difference was made 10 by the donor. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, yeah. And that, 12 combined with this kind of leadership commitment to -- those 13 adoptions aren't just happening accidentally. They're -- 14 everybody out there is on the telephone calling people up and 15 saying, "We've got a good dog here, need your help." 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything more on Animal 17 Control? Let's give Mr. Walston a chance from the Extension 18 Office. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Stock show's coming up; we won't 20 see him for six months. 21 MR. WALSTON: Yeah, be out-of-pocket here before 22 long. All right. I've got y'all some information, probably 23 more than I'm going to spend going over, but I want to be able 24 to give it to you and to where y'all can have it to look over. 25 First of all, this is -- 2006 is our 100th year of the County 12-11-06 150 1 Extension Agents. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you -- 3 MR. WALSTON: Here you go, Judge. I don't know what 4 the difference is, but -- and we just wanted to give y'all 5 that little momentum -- memento, something like that, to show 6 you our appreciation for y'all's support for the Extension 7 Service and what y'all help us -- enable us to do. And let me 8 see. This is a little milestone update on our 4-H program. 9 This last Friday, as y'all saw in the paper, we had the Any 10 Baby Can Christmas party. This is the second year our Junior 11 and Senior Council has helped to sponsor the Any Baby Can 12 Christmas party, and it was really a nice success. We had 13 well over 100 people there with gifts, and our 4-H Council 14 basically helps to coordinate the gift giving, and they 15 decorate the hall and -- and provide food for these kids to 16 come out with Any Baby Can, and then they'll work with Santa 17 Claus in getting those gifts and to serve as elves and helping 18 the people. And the kids really enjoyed the opportunity to 19 get to work with those kids. 20 We'll just start up at the top. This past year, we 21 had 379 youth involved in our -- in our traditional 4-H 22 program, and this is something that, statewide, we've 23 gradually seen a decline in -- in numbers in our 4-H and youth 24 as far as our traditional 4-H clubs, for whatever reason. It 25 may have been due to how we counted those numbers, at whatever 12-11-06 151 1 that may have been. But for a long time, we had a lot of 2 emphasis put from our administration to really work on our 3 curriculum enrichment through the schools and in hopes of 4 getting those kids into our traditional 4-H program. Some of 5 that works, but probably not to the extent that we'd really 6 like it to. So, a lot of it is just word of mouth, getting 7 these kids out and getting them involved in our program and 8 getting them involved in and enrolled in our clubs. We're 9 glad to see 379; that's an increase over the past couple of 10 years. I think we were at about 350 last year, and we're at 11 370. This next year, we expect to be well over 400. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you were just 13 saying there's been a decline. 14 MR. WALSTON: There has been in the state. We've 15 increased. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But not -- 17 MR. WALSTON: Not here. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 19 MR. WALSTON: This year we've gone from 350 to 379. 20 Next year I anticipate being over 400. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic. 22 MR. WALSTON: We have ten charter clubs that we have 23 to charter each year. And our top five projects, as you can 24 see, we have -- leadership is a big project, including foods 25 and nutrition, shooting sports, meat goats, swine, livestock 12-11-06 152 1 projects are all a big emphasis on and have a lot of 2 participation. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Meat goats is still a growing 4 program? 5 MR. WALSTON: The meat goat project -- the meat goat 6 and the beef project and the livestock are probably the only 7 two that are still increasing. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have we caught Gillespie 9 County yet in the meat goat? 10 MR. WALSTON: Oh, I would imagine. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good deal. 12 MR. WALSTON: I would imagine. I don't know what 13 theirs are, but -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They brag about it. 15 MR. WALSTON: Well, I'm not going to say anything, 16 but I'd venture to say that we've probably got more meat 17 goats. But, you know, swine, I'm not going to say we do. But 18 our -- our swine numbers have dropped off, our beef numbers 19 have increased, and our lamb numbers have dropped off. And 20 that's -- it's kind of cyclical. I mean, you drop off a 21 little bit, and then the next couple years you'll come back 22 up. So, our shooting sports program, we're anticipating -- 23 we're trying to get an archery program and an air pistol 24 program started this year in addition to our rifle and trap 25 and skeet. So, we're going to have probably one of the best 12-11-06 153 1 shooting sports programs in the state. I strongly feel that 2 with the addition of the air rifle and the archery, not many 3 counties have four different areas of shooting sports by 4 itself. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that largely because of this new 6 complex out here, the Hill Country Shooting Sports Center? 7 MR. WALSTON: There's just an interest there. The 8 complex helps because we got a facility to work in. If we 9 didn't have a facility, we wouldn't be able to do it. But now 10 that we've got the facility and there's enough parents out 11 there that are interested, it's easy to be able to pull them 12 in, get them going, get them trained and go from there. It's 13 amazing what kind of talent we've got when we need it. In the 14 archery department, come to find out one of our trap and skeet 15 parents is a national archery shooter, so we've got ability in 16 -- you know, you never know what you're going to have till you 17 need it, and then if you need it, you go find it. So, our 18 curriculum enrichment numbers in the past year, we're 973. 19 That was pretty level to what it's been being, and that's 20 programs that are going through the school system and working 21 with the school on providing curriculum for kids in those 22 areas. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What grades does that impact? 24 MR. WALSTON: Primarily fourth and fifth is -- and 25 then you'll get into a few of them that'll be up in sixth and 12-11-06 154 1 seventh grade. But junior high and elementary; fourth and 2 fifth, elementary. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- how does the 4 curriculum enrichment program come under the 4-H work with the 5 schools, what the schools do through their program, the FFA 6 and other stuff? How do they mesh? 7 MR. WALSTON: What we do, Laurinda will go into the 8 schools and provide training to those teachers and offer the 9 curriculum to them, and they pick up the curriculum and take 10 it and use it, and then in turn give us the numbers for what 11 they've used our curriculum for. And then we try to go in 12 and -- and visit with those kids about the 4-H program. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you work with the -- with 14 the teachers? 15 MR. WALSTON: With the teachers. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MR. WALSTON: During -- either during -- at the 18 beginning of school, when they're doing their teacher 19 in-service, we'll try and provide -- and we try to narrow it 20 down to a few curriculum programs, rather than having a big -- 21 I mean, we've got a lot more than this, but this is some of 22 the ones that we found that are the most -- that they're most 23 interested in, along with the junior master gardener program. 24 This is another one that they really like. And so, basically, 25 we provide them with a curriculum and material, and Laurinda 12-11-06 155 1 does the training on it, and, you know, it goes from there. 2 So, we've got 149 screened active volunteers out of the ten 3 clubs, and we're continuously adding new volunteers and 4 screening them. We have -- we've just, I guess in '03, 5 started the screening process for volunteers, and we do that 6 on an annual -- every three years, they'll have to go through 7 a screening process. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that screening by just 9 interviewing, or is it background -- 10 MR. WALSTON: No, it's background check, yeah. 11 Texas 4-H runs a background check for us, and then, basically, 12 they just send us the information, "Yes, this one's approved," 13 or "He's not approved," for whatever reason, not in detail. 14 You know, for whatever -- he may not be able to drive kids, 15 you know. He can do everything else, but he can't transport 16 kids. And we don't know why or anything; we just know what he 17 can or can't do. So, like I say, that's something that we'll 18 continue to work on and continue to do on a yearly basis as we 19 get new volunteers. This last year, in our -- we were able to 20 partner with the Sunrise Lions Club and got $8,000 -- 21 generated $8,000 from our Grand Slam Wild Game Dinner. We 22 hope to continue that. And we use -- that money will go in 23 towards helping to offset some of the cost on these leadership 24 programs and Roundup, and helping furnish some travel funds 25 for these kids to go to state and national contest. 12-11-06 156 1 Roundup, as y'all have heard -- and I've gone over 2 this in the past. As far as this last year, we had five 3 judging teams qualified to go to state contest. We also had 4 two educational presentations that qualified to go to the 5 state contest, and won first and second, so we're proud of 6 those kids. That's the first time in a long time that Kerr 7 County's had an educational presentation that placed at state. 8 We also -- Chance Muehlstein is our State Council member. He 9 is currently serving as our District 10 president, and he is 10 on State Council, and I think our last one was in 1998 that we 11 had a representative on State Council. We also had two 4-H 12 members that received foundation -- 4-H Foundation 13 scholarships, and generated about a little over $20,000 in 14 scholarships for their college education. I anticipate having 15 some more of those here in the near future. Chance Muehlstein 16 also participated in national 4-H conference in Atlanta, 17 Georgia just a couple of weeks ago, and we're working on -- 18 he, as well as a couple other seniors and I, to go on another 19 national trip this year -- this next year. 20 Our BCI program, the Building Community Inclusion 21 program that we're -- Laurinda has worked with, with the 22 Salvation Army and the Any Baby Can was recognized on a state 23 level by winning the diversity award, as being a part of a 24 state team in -- in diversity area. And we'd like to 25 recognize them for all the efforts that that Junior and Senior 12-11-06 157 1 Council group has done in the area of diversity. This gives 2 you just a little bit of rundown on our livestock project 3 numbers and number of contributors that we work with that we 4 validated in 2006, just to go over that just a little bit. 5 I'd like to visit with you a little bit on -- on Jody. She 6 wasn't able to be here; she has a program she's doing at -- or 7 I guess a training -- a center training that she was doing on 8 the computer. Now, we've -- they've gotten us using the 9 computer doing a lot of training, so they -- it's internet 10 training, center training, and so she was tied up at 1:30 on 11 that and didn't think she was going to get out. 12 Her 4-H -- the 4-H Food and Nutrition project, the 13 council food show was held at Center Point Elementary School. 14 They had 26 youth that participated and 26 adults. They had 15 11 youth participate and qualify to go to the district food 16 show at Fredericksburg. And Cody Martin placed first in the 17 district food show with his -- with his junior nutritious 18 snacks category. She felt like this was a real learning 19 experience as much for her as it was for the kids to see kind 20 of where -- where these kids were and what she needed to do to 21 help prepare them next year even better. Some of the things 22 she's doing in adult programming, I think, is she's getting 23 out in the community and meeting a lot of people and doing a 24 lot of -- a lot of good as far as her programming on every 25 Monday at the Alamo Workforce Center, her Work Source Career 12-11-06 158 1 Center. Right now she's working with -- in the area of the 2 Better Living for Texas nutrition classes, and starting in 3 January she'll be doing a Money Smart financial education for 4 those -- for that audience. Also, she is working with Mooney 5 Aircraft, providing them with some basic nutrition education 6 programming, and also an Eat Smart Nutrition and Chronic 7 Disease Awareness, and this is done on a once-a-month basis. 8 And she's also providing this to the River Hills Apartment 9 residents as well, and we'll be -- in January, we'll be 10 offering that to the public at the Extension Office. 11 Jody also attended Do Well, Be Well With Diabetes 12 training. The Kerr County Diabetes Coalition has been formed 13 and is working on planning and organizing and implementing the 14 diabetes education classes, and those are scheduled to begin 15 in the spring. She's offering a Master of Memory series 16 starting in February through the Club Ed program, and I 17 believe that's going to be offered at the County Extension 18 Office. And I know that's one of the ones that I need to be 19 in, but it's a Master of Memory. I think that's a pretty 20 interesting topic. One of the things that they're going to be 21 working on is how your memory works, what affects our memory, 22 and strategies to improve it. Presented -- she's also 23 presented programs to our Bluebonnet Extension education 24 groups and the Cypress Creek Extension, education on pandemics 25 and hidden amounts of sugars in foods. She also took two 12-11-06 159 1 Extension ladies to a District 10 meeting in Lockhart. She's 2 also programming monthly for residents at the Meadows housing 3 complex and Heritage Oaks housing complex, and topics -- the 4 topics there include nutrition, money management, and consumer 5 scams. So, I think you can tell that she's off and running 6 and doing us an excellent job. 7 The other thing -- this is something I'm not going 8 to go into a lot of detail. This is some of the Ag Barn 9 programs, the outcome summary that I've presented this last 10 year here in Kerr County. I'll leave you that with some time 11 to look it over. It's basically just an overall view of the 12 prescribed burn workshops, our Hill Country Living 101 series, 13 wildlife management seminars, and rangeland monitoring field 14 day that we held this last year, and kind of a cumulative 15 evaluation of those participants at those workshops and what 16 they actually learned and gained through those workshops. I 17 think it was something that was well received, and -- and I 18 will -- I will leave that with you and let you look over that 19 as -- as you find time to. 20 We've just recently finished our pecan show here 21 last week or so, and it went off real well and we had a little 22 over 100 entries at our regional show and about 60 entries at 23 our district show for this year. That was -- that was a nice 24 show. Okay. This is something that Sudie Burditt with the 25 Convention and Visitors Bureau has put together. Alyce has 12-11-06 160 1 asked that -- back in, I guess, October, she had asked me to 2 help Sudie put together a little bit of an impact report on 3 the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, and I thought I would 4 give y'all this information so that y'all would have it, you 5 know, if you needed resource material or something to look 6 back at to show what the impact of the Hill Country Youth 7 Exhibit Center has been. Basically, to get to the point, the 8 direct impact totally on the past year from October through 9 September for the year was a little over a half million 10 dollars, $537,504, that was generated either through dollars 11 spent going to and from in the community for programs, 12 whatever was there, as well as overnight stays. They were in 13 the -- in the community. The back page -- or back several 14 pages, actually, show what -- what the program was, the number 15 of attendants that was there, whether it was an ag or non-ag, 16 and also whether it was youth -- youth-oriented. But I know 17 there -- you know, there's always a question as to what that's 18 actually worth to you, and I thought that might be something 19 that would be beneficial to you. Any questions? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Walston? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty interesting 22 information. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The activities of the Family and 24 Consumer Affairs, Ms. Osteen -- 25 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 12-11-06 161 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is she starting to put some emphasis 2 on adult education in areas of diabetes and things of that 3 nature? 4 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. Yeah. I think now that she's 5 kind of through the food show portion of it, getting -- 6 getting past that part of it, I think working with some of 7 these senior groups that she's able to work in the area of 8 nutrition, where she's gone -- she's gone through training on 9 the Kerr County -- on the Diabetes Coalition. It appears to 10 me that that's -- and I'm not absolutely positive, but I think 11 that's one of our outcome areas next year. I know it's an 12 area that she's going to be working in. It's just what -- you 13 know, but I think it's a -- an outcome area that she's going 14 to be getting a lot of information on. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think whatever she can do 16 from an educational standpoint to -- of course, most of these 17 people are elderly, and they're more prone to be diabetic, but 18 a lot of them don't realize it, and we end up with them over 19 here in the hospital emergency room, and some of them come 20 through and we end up picking up the tab on some of those. 21 And with a little bit of education, those kind of things can 22 be averted. So -- and I think it would be a material benefit 23 to our health care programs. 24 MR. WALSTON: I know she has listed on here that 25 those are -- the diabetes classes are to begin this spring. 12-11-06 162 1 So -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Good report. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. Thank you, Roy. 5 MR. WALSTON: You bet. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health. 8 MR. ARREOLA: Good afternoon. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning -- afternoon. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Somebody left their pen over here. 11 Okay, I got y'all's reports. That's the monthly report, plus 12 the two first months of the fiscal year. 13 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Any different way of 14 copying these reports where we could read -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: Some of those numbers are actually 16 blank; there's not supposed to be anything in them. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, okay. 18 MR. ARREOLA: The ones -- the little gray copies 19 don't help; I was just looking at that, too. But, yeah, we'll 20 try to make it a little better next time. The only numbers 21 that you need to look into the gray areas is on the -- at the 22 end of the report at the left-hand side. I can give you those 23 numbers if you want to know. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me -- compare this 25 year's activities to this time last year's activities. 12-11-06 163 1 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. If we go money-wise, we're a 2 little lower. Last year at this time of the year we were at 3 $14,000 revenue, and we are at $11,967 this year, so we're, 4 like, $1,500, $2,000 lower than last year. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why is that? 6 MR. ARREOLA: The month of October was unusually 7 slow. And if you go back a little bit on the charts, we can 8 show it was a slow month. I don't know why. The weather was 9 good, but still it was kind of a slow month. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you still seeing new 11 residences, new systems? 12 MR. ARREOLA: There's a lot of new construction. 13 There's a lot of new -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: New construction? 15 MR. ARREOLA: -- development. Actually, the month 16 of November was pretty -- pretty big, was a good month. But 17 since we calculate both months together, then we're overall 18 lower. We're doing -- also seeing in this month, in December, 19 an increase. We're going a little above what we did last 20 year. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like your number of new systems 22 was down as compared to last year, by -- well, let me see. 23 About 20 percent. 24 MR. ARREOLA: From -- yes, sir, from 17 to 22. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, looks like new systems, last 12-11-06 164 1 year at this time you had 48; now you're at 39 through 2 November this year, first two months. 3 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. That's correct, yes, sir. 4 Any other questions on the first page or two? The second page 5 is just the monthly activities that we do, complaint 6 investigations and all that. If you want to go to the first 7 graphic, that's the aerobic maintenance program. That's 8 mandated by state law. We're doing real good on that part. 9 We're about to start going to the city of Ingram program, 10 which is a little -- little behind on all these items. So, 11 I'm going to be giving you a report in the next -- next time 12 with the City of Ingram separate from this one. We're doing 13 real good; we got about 1,400 on aerobic units in the county, 14 and only 42 of those don't have a maintenance contract, and 15 all of them we are working on. We notified the people that 16 they're out of enforcement and they have to be. Everybody is 17 working on it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is a mechanism for the 19 homeowner to inspect his own system, is there not? 20 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. The law changed, and yeah, they 21 can do their own system now if they want to. We haven't had a 22 big demand from homeowners trying to do it. There's a few 23 that are trying to get that, but there's some certifications 24 they need to get also, so it's not really cost-effective, but 25 it is there. The next graphic is our response time. State 12-11-06 165 1 law mandates certain -- certain time for us to respond to 2 plans and inspections. We're doing pretty good on that one, 3 too. About .0 -- 0.6 percent is just about what we're 4 supposed to -- the rest is being done on time. The next 5 graphic is just three years -- comparing three years of 6 authorization to construct. You can see every month how we've 7 been doing. Like I said, in October we're a little lower. 8 November came back up. December normally -- it was a lot -- a 9 big month last year, and we're seeing that also this year. 10 The next one up is inspection -- number of inspections we did 11 during the month, and again, information for the last three 12 years. This does not include the Kerrville South wastewater 13 project that we are injecting also. Abandoning septic systems 14 is not included in here, either the inspections or paperwork 15 that we need to do on it. Any questions on there? Okay. 16 The last graphic is the Solid Waste report, and what 17 I did there, it's compared to the last three years also, 18 fiscal years. This is '05, the first bar. This is the number 19 of inspections, the number of cases that were inspected or 20 investigated. And then '06, we went down a little bit, total 21 numbers we did. And our goal for '07, it's 200 cases. So far 22 we got about 20, and we're working on that, so we should be 23 able to do at least those 200 cases. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Miguel, what's the latest on 25 the cleanup program over there in that area of Center Point, 12-11-06 166 1 Bowlin Drive and all of that? 2 MR. ARREOLA: We finished that area. I don't have 3 the numbers here with me, but four -- I think four or five 4 locations did get a citation, and then the latest drive-by 5 that I did, they cleaned up. After they got a citation and 6 paid for it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They did clean it up after 8 you cited them? 9 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 11 MR. ARREOLA: Probably one still in the process, not 12 completely done, but they're cleaning up. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might -- I know we've talked 14 about it before; I know Commissioner Williams has, but the end 15 of River Road. 16 MR. ARREOLA: Yes. River Road -- Riverside Road. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it Riverside? 18 MR. ARREOLA: By Highway 27 and -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Behind the Ag Barn. No, that's 20 Riverside. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's Riverside. River Road in 22 Center Point. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Oh, Center Point, okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About the end of River Road 25 where that mobile home park is. 12-11-06 167 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, that's out Skyline. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Skyline, I'm sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hill River Estates. 4 MR. ARREOLA: That is a serious problem. That has 5 been on the -- on the goals for a while. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's on the watch list, 7 isn't it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs -- I think it 9 needs to go past the goals and the watch list to the action. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. It's -- the problem with that 11 area is that it changes so much. We go back one time, and 12 some areas we come back and they're all new owners. People 13 are moving in and out so quick, and they all do about the 14 same. We've been doing real good on septic -- on the septic 15 side. When we started this program, it was basically septics 16 around there, and now I'd say 80 percent of the problems were 17 solved. Solid waste is -- is a major item in there, too. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You go out there frequently? 19 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir. Solid Waste goes every two 20 weeks at least, and O.S.S.F., every time we have a complaint. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of our -- one of our 22 constituents -- or my constituents who was recently cited in 23 County Court for burying all sorts of stuff he shouldn't bury, 24 and Miguel followed through with T.C.E.Q., sells those pieces 25 of property on contracts of sale out there. So, folks move 12-11-06 168 1 in; they can bring a trailer in, and I expect -- 2 MR. ARREOLA: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- they live there a couple 4 months, then they don't make their payment, and away the 5 trailer goes, and another one comes in behind them. You got 6 that issue all over again. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tough area, but it's also -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a catch-22 situation. 9 MR. ARREOLA: And it needs attention. It just -- 10 and we need more resources to just that area. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Obviously, one of your -- when 12 you focus on that area in Center Point, one of those focused 13 efforts on solid waste may help a little bit over there. 14 MR. ARREOLA: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, there's some that -- I 16 mean, there's some that don't care about it. There's also a 17 group out there that really wants that area cleaned up. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, the ones I hear from 20 are not any of my constituents. 21 MR. ARREOLA: Also, I'd like to share with you about 22 what you were mentioning a little bit. We had a property on 23 Riverside Drive that was a great example of teamwork. Really 24 helpful from, I think, the attorney's office; Mr. Emerson 25 helped us a lot to get these into a conviction. T.C.E.Q. got 12-11-06 169 1 involved -- T.C.E.Q., San Antonio regional office. Road and 2 Bridge helped us out, the Sheriff's Department, everybody 3 working together, and we got this real good conviction in it. 4 T.C.E.Q. is now in charge of the probation conditions of this 5 location. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Meaning the cleanup? 7 MR. ARREOLA: The cleanup, yeah. He has probation 8 time to clean it up, so that's going to be a good impact on 9 the area. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that going all the way to the 11 south to the fence that is a common fence between our park 12 area and this individual's property that's owned? 13 MR. ARREOLA: Yes, sir, the entire 20-some acres is 14 going to get cleaned up. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unfortunately, it bumps up 16 right against the county property. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 18 MR. EMERSON: He's actually on probation through 19 216th Adult Probation Department, but he has three pages of 20 attached probation conditions that are -- that were set by 21 T.C.E.Q. to stay on probation related to cleanup of that 22 property in the wording. 23 MR. ARREOLA: So, it was a very good -- very good 24 case. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You sent me a memo about one 12-11-06 170 1 property owner on Loyal Valley who wanted to have the best of 2 both worlds, so free septic hookup, and then -- 3 MR. ARREOLA: Refuses to -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- free sewer hookup, and 5 retain his septic. The answer is no. 6 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a condition of 8 accepting the free hookups; those septic tanks have to be 9 pumped and mitigated. 10 MR. ARREOLA: Okay, I just wanted to keep you in the 11 loop. He mentioned that to us, and what we did, we sent him a 12 letter requesting him to put it in writing. That way we can 13 start and -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just instruct -- 15 MR. ARREOLA: -- tell him officially no. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The answer is clearly no. 17 MR. ARREOLA: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't have it both ways. 19 MR. ARREOLA: The attorney has been informed of that 20 too. Any questions? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one. I remember in 22 the budget, we put in some dollars for education purposes. 23 MR. ARREOLA: Uh-huh. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- first of all, remind 25 me of what that meant, and number two, tell me where you are 12-11-06 171 1 in doing that. 2 MR. ARREOLA: We did -- what we do -- what we have 3 been doing is participating a lot in public forums, most of 4 them free, so we haven't used a lot of that money. Sometimes 5 we use publications or bring in something to that forum that 6 we're advertising, anywhere we get invited to. This year, 7 we're going to plan something to give them -- give the public 8 videos, DVD's of how to protect your environment better and 9 septics and solid waste. That's basically the -- the usage. 10 We went down from -- I think it was $2,000 in the beginning to 11 $500 or something easier. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 13 MR. ARREOLA: 'Cause we -- most of what we do comes 14 free, so we don't really use the funds, but whatever we have 15 there is going to be used for that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10-4. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Thank you, Miguel. 18 MR. ARREOLA: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Okay, do we have 20 anything that we need to go into executive session about? 21 Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was quick. Just a 23 reminder, that I believe when -- before we took O.S.S.F. back 24 over, there was several members of U.G.R.A. Board that said we 25 would never be able to run it as good as they did. 12-11-06 172 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And just recently, I heard 2 from the former president of U.G.R.A. to say that he was 3 amazed what we'd done with it and, you know, what a good move 4 it was and how they were happy to be with them. So, all in 5 all, it's -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A win-win. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- worked good. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little more expensive than we 9 want it. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, looks like we're down to paying 12 the bills, so it would appear. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I forgot to bring my packet 14 in. I'll look on yours. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move we pay the bills. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. Any 18 question or discussion? Okay, Page 16. First entry there, 19 reimbursement of phone expense. I assume that that's going to 20 be a cell phone? Is that for two months? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Because I turn the page and look at 23 the next one and see that it's about half that. And on other 24 occasions, I've looked at other J.P.'s, and -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: It's probably for one month. 12-11-06 173 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is what? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One month. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. We -- we pay it monthly, so 4 unless -- unless they hold a bill and we don't -- we don't get 5 it in time to get -- to get it in for payment. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- I think we need to see 7 exactly where our cell phone money's going to and put a curb 8 on it, 'cause we got too many cell phones floating around that 9 we're paying for that I'm not sure are being used totally for 10 county business. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've been an advocate of doing 12 them all under a county plan. Can't get there from here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we can. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't been able to yet. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll get there. Maybe the simplest 16 thing to do would be come up with just an allowance for those. 17 First we identify those who are required to have it for county 18 business, and then just a blank allowance. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on the minimal plan 20 that's -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is about a $35, $39 23 plan, something like that. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: There are a lot of counties that do 25 that. 12-11-06 174 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'd be in favor of that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you get us some information from 3 other auditors on how they handle that financially? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know -- I don't -- I think 5 the hardest part would be to determine what the allowance 6 would be per -- per office. I mean, that -- that would be an 7 up-front situation. I guess you would have to determine 8 what -- what the official -- what the average monthly was. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't see any county person 10 using their cell phone for county business being more than a 11 minimum subscriber. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of my thinking. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't either, really. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have access to 15 their -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- phone calls? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: We have access, sure. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I don't want to get in the 20 game of going through a bill and spending the time that -- you 21 know, you guys would be the ones that would have it dropped in 22 your lap. We used to have a nightmare with that doggone land 23 line phone bill here. That took somebody, like, three days to 24 sort all that out, and that was a nightmare. But I think we 25 need to make a determination of, number one, who is authorized 12-11-06 175 1 to have a county -- to have a cell phone for county business, 2 and then just come up with a blanket dollar amount, and that's 3 it. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think what some 5 counties do is -- is allow the -- allow the individual to have 6 their own plan, and they -- County reimburses that person for 7 the minimum, so they could use the phone -- if it's their 8 plan, they can use it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good idea. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's the way it 12 should be. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But rather than wrestle with a whole 14 bunch of plans, just come up with one dollar amount of an 15 allowance for everybody and be done with it. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: But the County wouldn't be involved 17 with the phone company at all. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. No, you don't want 20 them involved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you get a bad plan, you just 22 get less paid for by the County. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, $25, $40, whatever. Just a 24 blanket figure, and that's -- that's what you get. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $10, $15. 12-11-06 176 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all want to start paying 2 for mine? Not Letz', but mine. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I knew you were going to ask 4 that. I was hoping you would ask that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's see what else I got here. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, if we did the allowance, 7 is that not taxable? Doesn't that go in as income? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it would be. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. But then they can turn 10 around and write off that portion of it that is, quote, 11 business. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, sure. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Off of their individual return, but 14 it's shown as -- shown as other income to them out of the 15 County. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 48, what project is that? Is 18 that the tower? The radios? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: This is the -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Hope that's not the courthouse 21 renovations, because I thought we were through with that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that is the radio equipment. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's the radio? Okay. I 25 just wanted to make sure we weren't paying the wonderful Bank 12-11-06 177 1 of New York for a project that we were already through with. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, that's -- that's the 3 administrative fee. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I understand. I understand, but 5 it's in connection with an obligation that we've already 6 liquidated, no longer exists, if it was with -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the courthouse. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 11 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget amendments. 16 Budget Amendment Request 1. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 1 is for the Sheriff's 18 Department to recognize $4,237.69 from Allstate Insurance 19 Agency for damage to one of our vehicles. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12-11-06 178 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 4 Request 2. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Two is for the County Extension 6 Office and Nondepartmental. We -- during the budget process, 7 we -- we made an error in budgeting the salaries for the 8 Extension Agents. I think it had something to do with the 9 fact that we didn't have the -- Roy's counterpart was not on 10 staff part of the year, and then also we did not add the 11 4.2 percent to their -- to their salary. So, we discovered 12 this just -- just recently, and the amount -- the amount that 13 we need to change the agents' salaries is $5,138 for salary, 14 and $393 for FICA expense. 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This will take care of the 16 whole year? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion for approval. Any 21 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 12-11-06 179 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget Amendment 2 Request 3. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Three is for Road and Bridge to 4 transfer $411 from their Contingency line item to Vehicle 5 Insurance. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion for approval. Any 9 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 10 by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 15 Request 4. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 4 is for J.P. 4, to transfer 17 $177.50 from Conference line item to Bonds. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 21 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 12-11-06 180 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 2 Request 5. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Five is for County Court at Law, 4 from Judge Brown, to transfer $170 from his Court-Appointed 5 Attorney line item to his Liability Insurance line item. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I rise to move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. Not going to get 9 up, though. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion for approval. Any question or 11 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 16 Request 6. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 6 is for the 216th District 18 Court, to transfer $8,420 from Court-Appointed Attorney line 19 item to Court-Appointed Services. It's for -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shrinks. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, exactly right. I'm trying to 22 find out what case it is. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We got enough upcoming, it's not 24 going to make any difference. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, really. 12-11-06 181 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me tell you something, we got 2 some booger-bears coming on that one. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: It's another Seard case. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: And I need a hand check for $3,000 6 dollars for that physician. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: $3,000 to whom? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Don't make me pronounce this name. 10 It's Dr. Sridhar -- Natarajan is the way I would pronounce it. 11 S-r-i-d-h-a-r, N-a-t -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't spell it; I'll pronounce it the 13 way you did. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Must be German. (Laughter.) 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No second? 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 20 approval. Any question or discussion? As I said, we -- this 21 is early in the game, and we've got two that are lined up that 22 are going to be insanity types. The one that was due to start 23 this week, that's going to get delayed for a month or two, and 24 then you got another one. And then, of course, if Seard comes 25 back, which they routinely send him back about every six 12-11-06 182 1 months, we're going to have a third one there. So, we're not 2 even close to being done with that one. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to -- is there any 4 prospect of any of them -- Seard, I don't think there is, but 5 the other ones going to trial? Or is this going to be back 6 and forth between the -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the indication is that Ligon 8 was going to go to trial, but they had to ascertain what law 9 he fell under, because the offense occurred back in the late 10 '80's, early 90's, something like that, and they had -- they 11 had to go back into the Legislative archives to find out what 12 was in existence at the time and know what they -- what law 13 was in effect at the time. So -- but he's been found 14 competent to stand trial, so they're going to try him, and 15 he's going to serve an insanity defense, so there are going to 16 be state experts and defense experts, both of which we get to 17 pay for. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: The reason I -- I requested this 19 transfer from Court-Appointed Attorney line item to 20 Court-Appointed Services is to separate the -- the 21 psychological exams from -- from the attorneys' bills, for the 22 purpose of reporting to the state for -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Indigent defense. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: -- indigent defense, because that's 25 a requirement. We did get a letter this week that we -- we're 12-11-06 183 1 going to receive about an extra $6,000 -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: -- this year from that program. 4 That's nothing compared to -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Better than nothing, though. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Better than nothing. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: As they say, better than a poke in 8 the eye with a sharp stick. Any other question or comment? 9 All in favor of the motion to approve Budget Amendment Request 10 6 and hand check in the amount of $3,000 to Dr. Sridhar 11 Natarajan, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 THE WITNESS: Motion does carry. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Good Irish name, isn't it? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sridhar. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 7. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 7 is for the Tax Assessor. 20 She has two bonds; one's 1,197. I think we only budgeted for 21 one, so she has a request in to transfer $1,197 into her Bonds 22 and Insurance line item from Nondepartmental. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 12-11-06 184 1 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 2 by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 7 any late bills? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I have another one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You got another budget amendment? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We sure have a lot of bonds and 11 insurance ones -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of a sudden. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: All of a sudden. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- all of a sudden. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I guess these people want to be 16 sworn in on -- on January 1st. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 8. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 8 is for Justice of the Peace, 19 Precinct 1. This is also for a bond, for $77.50 to be 20 transferred from Machine Repairs line item to Bonds and 21 Insurance. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 25 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 12-11-06 185 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Is that the 6 end of budget amendments? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any late bills? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 11 reports from County Clerk, General and Trust Fund for October 12 '06, activity -- and activity reports for Justice Court, 13 Precinct 2, November '06, and Kerr County Emergency Services 14 District Number 2. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 15 approved as presented? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do, Judge, but I'd like 17 to ask a couple questions about one of them. But I move that 18 they be approved. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. Any 22 question or discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Number 4, on 24 this -- on this -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: ESD. 12-11-06 186 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Emergency Service District 2 Number 2, help me understand what this Page 2 is doing. I'm 3 seeing at the top, 206, property taxes at 3.5 cents per 100, 4 and I'm assuming that's $69 million value, so that figures out 5 to $24,448. That's their total income, so they're going to 6 take their total income and spend every penny? Is that -- is 7 that what I'm seeing? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm-mm. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Here's a reserve down here, 11 10 percent, 2,503 reserve. They're going to spend all but 12 2,500 of it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It shows as an expenditure, but it's 15 actually -- it's an expenditure into a reserve account, 16 apparently. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That 10 percent there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be really uncomfortable 20 if they were taking every penny, throwing it in there, and not 21 having a little money for a rainy day. Okay, thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does their report need to be 24 added in with our reports? Aren't they required by -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was in there. That was 12-11-06 187 1 one of the list. He called it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He called it? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're required to make a 5 report to us. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Annually, right? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Comments? All 9 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any reports 14 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or 15 committee assignments? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't even remember what 17 they are. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: He can. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He can't remember his; I can 22 barely remember mine. The Judge and I signed off on the 23 Kerrville South Phases 2 and 3 construction and the final 24 draws and so forth, and I'm pleased to report to you that I 25 managed to get reimbursed to Kerr County Road and Bridge 12-11-06 188 1 Department -- reimbursed 14,900 and whatever dollars. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For materials that they 4 utilized in rehabilitating those roads. That's in the final 5 draws which the Judge and I signed off on. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where does that money 7 actually go? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess they'll credit 9 it back to Road and Bridge in their Materials line item. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy's already gone. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be the intention 12 of it, to credit it back to them. Second thing is that the -- 13 on Friday -- on a Friday in San Antonio, the Management 14 Committee of AACOG went through and interviewed, all day long, 15 candidates from all over the country, basically, to replace Al 16 Notzon as director of some 38 years standing, who's retiring 17 at the end of January, and they brought in and scheduled six 18 candidates to come in, from 17 that we reviewed, from 43 that 19 applied. So, there was a wide array of folks from all over 20 the country who applied for that job. In terms of COG jobs, 21 that's probably one of the premier jobs in the nation. It 22 certainly is one of the premier jobs in the state of Texas. 23 So, when we got that down to six, on the day of interviews, 24 which were to begin at 9 o'clock, we finally wound up at 25 5 o'clock in the afternoon. One candidate withdrew because he 12-11-06 189 1 had a family situation, so we actually interviewed five, and 2 spent a good bit of the time talking about them. The 3 candidates we interviewed came from as far away as Oregon and 4 Georgia, and a couple from Texas, and one staff. After 5 reviewing them all, the board -- the Management Committee is 6 recommending to the board on Wednesday that Gloria Arriaga be 7 named the new director. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gloria has the credentials, 10 and she's done an excellent job as the executive -- Deputy 11 Executive Director. Nobody in the world possesses the 12 knowledge of the agency that Gloria possesses. One of the 13 things -- one of the key things about it was we asked all 14 these candidates, you know, "What would you do for the first 15 three to six months if you are the person selected?" And to a 16 person, they all said, Well, we got to get familiar with the 17 agency and meet the people and go out and meet the mayors and 18 the councils and the commissioners courts and so forth. Which 19 is a good answer, but when you think about that, you got six 20 months that you're going to be doing that when you got 21 somebody right now who possesses a lifetime of experience and 22 knowledge, and so that was one of the key factors. So, the 23 board will be -- will be hearing a recommendation from the 24 Management Committee to extend the offer to Gloria on 25 Wednesday. 12-11-06 190 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's been in this courtroom 2 as much as anybody. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. Wealth of 4 knowledge, and respected both statewide and nationally. So, 5 I'm comfortable in proceeding that way. That's it, Judge. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one. It's a -- if I'd 7 have thought about it, I probably would have put it under 8 executive session items. It may qualify, but we're not in 9 executive session, so I'll go over it briefly here. Myself 10 and Commissioner Williams, to -- as well, along with 11 representatives from Upper Guadalupe River Authority, City of 12 Kerrville, Harvey Hilderbran's office, and G.B.R.A. have all 13 been working on an issue to help get water to Kerr County, and 14 the -- it appears we're going to be able to announce something 15 this week. And the announcement definitely doesn't involve 16 the Commissioners Court; that's why I'm bringing it up. 17 The -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't want the announcement 19 to precede the Court's -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want you to say, "What 21 the heck is he talking about?" In 2000, we negotiated a 22 memorandum of understanding with G.B.R.A. for 6,000 acre-feet 23 into the future. 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 6,000? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6,000 acre-feet of water. 12-11-06 191 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's from Kerr County? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the problem with it was, 3 there was no way we would ever get the water. I mean, there 4 was a problem -- 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's not a part of the 6 2,000 acres that U.G.R.A. -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, this is Kerr County. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kerr County. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't know that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 6,000 beginning in year 11 2021. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. What we're -- I come up 13 with, and Bill's been in on part of this; we have held out 14 trading that MOU to the benefit of U.G.R.A. and the City of 15 Kerrville to improve their ability to take water under their 16 main permit, which is 57194, I believe. The net effect of 17 that -- and what we're doing, basically, we're trading -- 18 we're trading the MOU for a take-or-pay clause in a contract 19 from G.B.R.A. The net effect is that over a long period of 20 time, it appears that it'll increase the amount of water that 21 can be diverted under that permit by about 1,000 acre-feet a 22 year, that the cost of that is about 100,000 a year right now. 23 So, it is a -- we're trading the MOU that's very nebulous, 24 giving -- and then basically giving roughly 50,000 a year 25 value to the City and 50,000 a year to G.B.R.A. It's been 12-11-06 192 1 very hard -- and it's very complicated when you get into all 2 kind of things I don't even understand when it comes to 3 permits and T.C.E.Q. and subordination agreements and all this 4 other stuff, but everyone is confident enough that it's a real 5 deal. There's a lot of push to get this announced before the 6 Legislature goes into session, for a number of reasons. No 7 one knows the committee assignments. Harvey has a certain 8 amount of leverage at the moment. Depending on which 9 committee he gets on, he may not have as much leverage after 10 January. He's pushing it over at G.B.R.A. a little bit right 11 now. Bill and I came up with the trade, using the MOU to swap 12 in and out. Bill West isn't happy, but he doesn't know how to 13 get out of this, I think, at this point. City seems happy; 14 U.G.R.A. seems happy. So, anyway, if we get everyone signed 15 off, it's probably going to get announced this week or early 16 next week. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The key in this all is that 18 the 6,000 MOU that the County holds -- right? And it's signed 19 by G.B.R.A. -- doesn't really have anything -- any meat on the 20 bones. There's no mechanism for delivery of that water, and 21 that's the thing that Commissioner Letz and I really wanted to 22 talk about. You know, it's on your books as a liability going 23 out of 2021. Why don't we go forward, even if we reduce the 24 liability and figure out how we get it to a take-or-pay 25 status. 12-11-06 193 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure they agree -- 2 totally agree it was a liability. We convinced them it was a 3 liability to leave it there, anyway. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You said something about 5 $100,000 a year? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the problem -- what there 7 is, G.B.R.A. will enter into a contract with City of Kerrville 8 tomorrow and let them take water out of Canyon and divert it 9 up here, but it's under a take-or-pay clause, at I think about 10 $90 an acre-foot. But there's no mechanism or way to take the 11 water now. As time goes on, that amount's going to increase 12 as the value of the water increases. So, G.B.R.A. will do 13 this right now. What we've said is you already owe Kerr 14 County 6,000 acre-feet; we can prove it with this MOU that you 15 signed, so we're going to trade that for the take-or-pay 16 portion -- or a portion of take-or-pay, with the idea being 17 really that maybe in 20 years, let them invoke that 18 take-or-pay provision, because at that point the City or 19 U.G.R.A. will be using the water. But they're kind of -- 20 they're going to have to pay for it whether they use it or 21 not, for quite a few years. Why this is important, both the 22 City and U.G.R.A. are looking at additional ASR wells as their 23 main, you know, midterm solution for their water problems, but 24 they don't have the water to put in the ASR wells. This 25 enables them to get the water to put in the ASR wells. So, 12-11-06 194 1 anyway -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And making this deal will 3 not have any immediate impact on Kerrville costs? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will have immediate impact 5 that the City and U.G.R.A. will not have to pay for the water 6 that they're not using. I mean, so it's a -- you know, it's a 7 savings real quick. And it's a -- and the other -- the 8 benefit -- the reason to really push this through now, you 9 know, is as time goes on, the further that MOU gets from when 10 it was actually signed by G.B.R.A., I think the less meat is 11 on that skeleton, and it's better to try to trade it for 12 something now than try to do something down the road when Bill 13 West is gone, and he's the one that negotiated it, he and 14 myself and Fred at the time. So, anyway, it's a way to -- and 15 we may not let them off the whole MOU; may just be 3,000 16 acre-feet. Some of the details are still being worked out, 17 but anyway, just wanted to let everyone know this is kind of 18 in the works. If anyone thinks this is a stupid idea, they 19 need to speak in a hurry, because -- anyway, the announcement 20 probably will come out of Harvey's office; he's the one that, 21 you know, wants to announce this. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's smart. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. It's a win-win for Kerr 25 County residents. It doesn't have any monetary impact on our 12-11-06 195 1 government, but it certainly helps the citizens of the county. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell the Judge about our 3 deal on the trolleys when you talk about -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've already told him. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Hard part's now up to me to get the 7 waiver. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just need it in writing, 9 yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Elected officials 11 have any reports to render? 12 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You sent us one in writing here a 14 week or so ago; I saw it. 15 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, we have a guest in the 18 courtroom. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We stand adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:10 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 12-11-06 196 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of 9 December, 2006. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-11-06