1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Wednesday, December 27, 2006 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 27, 2006 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to 4 declare items surplus, authorize Maintenance Department to remove them 9 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 approve bond of Edward Allen North, Deputy Constable #1 10 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to 8 approve or acknowledge continuation of County Clerk's E & O Bond and Employees' Government 9 Crime Policy 10 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to approve application to appoint deputies to 11 office of County Clerk 11 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on addition of budget line item for pre-employment 13 screening/background checks, authorize funding for same 12 14 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 moving $550 from Custodial & Ground Supplies to Uniforms to purchase steel-toed boots and proper 16 safety eyewear for Maintenance personnel 18 17 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on new Safety Policy for Maintenance Department 19 18 1.8 Consider/discuss report from the Kerr County 19 Historical Committee 21 20 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve loan to purchase three pieces of leased 21 Road & Bridge equipment, authorize County Judge to sign documents for same 32 22 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 remove two cattle guards on Bear Creek Road 36 24 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for concept to revise Lot 5 & 6 of Shalako Estates 37 25 3 1 I N D E X December 27, 2006 2 PAGE 3 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for concept of Revision of Plat for Lot 96 of 4 Kerrville South II, set public hearing for same 40 5 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for Concept plan for 14.22-acre tract on Johnson 6 Creek in Precinct 4 42 7 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on City of Kerrville’s response to Kerr County 8 Commissioners' proposed Joint Dispatch Study Committee 63 9 1.15 Consider/discuss, set public hearing on a 10 petition to amend or abandon an easement along south side of Lake Ingram in Precinct 4 76 11 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve appointment of deputies of Tax Assessor/ Collector’s Office 100 13 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to 14 approve bonds as required by Texas Tax Code 100 15 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve official bonds of elected officials 102 16 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to 17 approve the Official Public Bonds for elected officials 102 18 4.1 Pay Bills 103 19 4.2 Budget Amendments 107 4.3 Late Bills 113 20 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 113 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 114 22 --- Adjourned 122 23 24 25 4 1 On Wednesday, December 27, 2006, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order, if I might, this meeting of the Kerr 8 County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this time 9 and date, Wednesday, December the 27th, 2006, at 9 a.m. It's 10 a couple minutes past that time now. Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Would everyone stand and 12 join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge? 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 15 any member of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter 16 that is not a listed agenda item, this is your time to be 17 heard. If you want to be heard on an agenda item, we would 18 ask that you fill out a participation form. They're located 19 at the back of the room. It's not absolutely essential that 20 you do that. It does help me, though, when we come to a 21 particular agenda item, if you've filled out that form, to 22 hopefully not miss you. But if you've not filled out a form 23 or if, for some reason, I've overlooked you, when we get to 24 that item, if you'd get my attention in some way, shape, form, 25 or fashion, and we'll give you the opportunity to be heard. 12-27-06 5 1 But as to any item that is not a listed agenda item that you 2 wish to give us something about, why, feel free to come 3 forward at this time. Seeing no one coming forward, why, 4 we'll move on. Commissioner Letz, what do you have for us 5 this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just happy we got rain 7 finally. And I lifted the burn ban as of this morning. 8 That's all I have. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Considering, Judge, that 11 this is probably my last Commissioners Court meeting, I need 12 to -- to say some kudos and mea culpas. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In front of everybody? 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. First, I want to 15 thank the Commissioners for -- for mentoring me and aiding me 16 over the last four years. You've been very helpful to me. 17 And mostly I want to thank you for being patient with me. I'm 18 fully aware that your job of being patient with people is not 19 always easy. I appreciate it. I've got high hopes for this 20 next Court. It occurs to me that this is one of the most -- 21 will be one of the most experienced courts ever. Every 22 Commissioner will have at least eight years experience, and 23 for the first time in three decades, we'll have a judge that 24 has more than four years experience. So you, all together, 25 can produce some really good work, and I have high 12-27-06 6 1 expectations that that will happen. Again, thank you for your 2 -- your help, and more importantly for your patience. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner 1? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm not going to take 5 up a lot of time; I just wanted to ask everyone to remember 6 our great nation in a time of the loss of President Ford last 7 night. And he had close and personal connections in Kerr 8 County and all the Texas hill country, and just want to lift 9 everybody up when we're having our time of prayer and remember 10 all those folks. That's all. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was a great Christmas 13 season. I had the opportunity to enjoy it with family, as 14 most of you did, I'm sure, and that's a wonderful thing to do, 15 a wonderful time of year to do that. I want to reflect just 16 for a second on Commissioner Nicholson, too. I want to thank 17 you for your service to Kerr County and this Court. You and I 18 didn't get -- always get started on the right wavelength, but 19 we certainly ended up that way, and I admire you. I think 20 you've -- I think you have great principles. You had some 21 really good ideas that we managed to accomplish, some more 22 easily than others. But you're a principled man, you're a 23 dedicated man, and you've been very good for this Court, and I 24 want to publicly thank you for your service. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 12-27-06 7 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I also would like to express my 4 thanks to the one I call Brother Dave. We came on together, 5 and we shared some ideas. Some ideas we were divergent on, 6 but we managed to work through those. We both realized that 7 we can work together and disagree, and he, of course, upholds 8 that principle and has done well with it in working with us. 9 He brought a lot to the Court on the basis of his experience 10 dealing with personnel, personnel management, things of that 11 nature, which personally I thought was very, very helpful and 12 needed. I know he thinks there's still outstanding issues in 13 that regard, and I'm sure he will continue to give us his 14 thinking about those particular subjects. And I -- and I 15 solicit his -- his doing that, because I think from the 16 position that he occupies now, and having been here, he has a 17 better appreciation of how those things might better work for 18 the benefit of all of Kerr County. I thank him for his 19 service. I wish him well. I know he and Neva have got things 20 they're going to try and do now that he's not shackled to the 21 Court, and I wish them all the enjoyment in the world, and we 22 appreciate your service, Brother Dave. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Join me, if you would, please. 25 (Applause.) 12-27-06 8 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also to let him know that 2 committee assignments are available, and he's not going to be 3 gone forever. I have some ideas -- you know, plans which -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly the library. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I have some plans for 6 where Dave can help serve this Court and the community 7 further. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks for thinking about 9 me, Jon. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say a quick 11 one. Dave, thank you for your service to us, and -- and 12 you've brought a fresh -- many times a fresh way of thinking, 13 and sometimes a little strange. (Laughter.) Well, to me, 14 anyway. But we appreciate it very much. And I think -- I 15 think we have a little gift for you before you leave here 16 today, so don't -- don't walk out in the middle of the 17 Commissioners Court meeting. 18 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I have a pencil? 20 Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's -- one more item that I 22 would like to mention. We recently had our annual jail 23 inspection that's conducted by the Texas Commission on Jail 24 Standards. That -- that inspection has gone well in previous 25 years, and this year, again, it went very well. Sylvia 12-27-06 9 1 Foraker, the Jail Administrator, this was her first year at 2 the helm. She and her staff stepped up and did a wonderful 3 job. I have been privileged to attend those inspections, at 4 least portions of them, and do the outbriefing with the 5 inspector. And try as he may, the inspector was unable to 6 find any deficiencies in the operation of our Kerr County 7 detention facility, so I think that's a testament to the fine 8 work that Sylvia and her staff and the Sheriff and his 9 supervision of those folks, and you folks need to be aware of 10 the good work of those people out there. Let's get on with 11 the agenda. First item is to consider, discuss, and take 12 appropriate actions to declare the following items surplus and 13 authorize Maintenance Department to remove them from the 14 County Clerk's office and provide for disposition of same. 15 There's a Canon typewriter, Canon micro reader-printer. 16 Ms. Pieper, other than your agenda item, do you have anything 17 further? 18 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. These are unrepairable, and I 19 just need to get them out of the way. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 23 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion on the motion? 24 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 25 hand. 12-27-06 10 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 MS. PIEPER: That motion does carry. Thank you, 5 Ms. Pieper. Next item is to consider, discuss, and take 6 appropriate action to approve the bond of Edward Allen North 7 as Deputy Constable, Precinct 1. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 11 of the agenda item. Any further question or discussion? All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 17 Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate actions to 18 approve or acknowledge the continuation of the County Clerk's 19 errors and omissions bond and employees' government crime 20 policy. Ms. Pieper? 21 MS. PIEPER: It's just what it is, Judge. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 25 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 12-27-06 11 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any change over what 2 you've previously had? 3 MS. PIEPER: No, sir, it's the same. The 4 governmental crime policy I believe is set up by statute as to 5 how much it is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion 7 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 8 your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 13 to Item 4, if we might; consider, discuss, and take 14 appropriate actions to approve the application to appoint 15 deputies to the office of County Clerk. Ms. Pieper again. 16 MS. PIEPER: Judge, I'm not sure this actually needs 17 y'all's approval, but the way I read it, it doesn't hurt, and 18 it's something that I do every four years when I'm re-elected. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 22 of the agenda item. Question or discussion? Ms. Pieper, are 23 all of those individuals specified in the -- in the material 24 which you submitted exactly as specified in the position 25 schedule -- 12-27-06 12 1 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- which we previously approved as to 3 name and the amount? 4 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the only question I 6 had. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this your entire staff? 8 MS. PIEPER: That is my entire staff, minus my two 9 part-time. I don't believe I put those on there. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Are they considered deputies? 11 MS. PIEPER: No, they are not deputized. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 13 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 19 Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 20 addition of a budget line item for pre-employment screening 21 and background checks for 2006-2007 Human Resources budget, 22 and authorize the funding for the same. Ms. Hyde? 23 MS. HYDE: Currently, we do not authorize or do not 24 have the funding for background checks on our prospective 25 employees. I do believe that we need to do background checks. 12-27-06 13 1 We need to have them fingerprinted and done background checks 2 before they're approved to be hired for Kerr County. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I asked you the question 4 when you first brought it up; I'll ask you the question again. 5 Is this something that the law enforcement agency under the 6 Sheriff cannot do for us? 7 MS. HYDE: They cannot do that. If the personnel 8 are working for the Sheriff, they can -- the Sheriff can do 9 it, but if they don't work for the Sheriff, he has stated that 10 they can't. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 12 MS. HYDE: He will, however, do the fingerprinting 13 for us for free on final application. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For free? 15 MS. HYDE: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless it's for you, 18 Commissioner. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: How benevolent. What -- what do you 20 estimate you need in the way of funding for this new line 21 item? 22 MS. HYDE: It will cost $35 to $45 per background 23 check. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question -- go ahead. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: How many are you looking at over 12-27-06 14 1 the -- 2 MS. HYDE: Ten. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the remaining course of the year? 4 MS. HYDE: Ten to 15. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we're needing -- 6 MS. HYDE: About $500. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- about $500. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ask the next question now, 9 "Where do you suggest we get that money?" Where do you 10 suggest we get that money? 11 MS. HYDE: Well, there is no budget for H.R., as you 12 all are well aware, so I was also told that we can look at the 13 general fund. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, could we transfer 15 perhaps from Kerr County Commissioners Court Contingency line, 16 $500 to set that up? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could, but I have a question 18 before we -- the question is, why can't the Sheriff do it? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can run a local one and an 20 in-house one, but unless it's an applicant for law enforcement 21 or it's an applicant that's going to be spending all their 22 time in the Law Enforcement Center or jail, it is illegal for 23 me to use the state computer system to run one. You have to 24 go through the state; otherwise, I can lose our system. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12-27-06 15 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Ms. Hyde, how are things 2 going to be different in the future if we do these background 3 investigations, as opposed to continuing to do it the way 4 we've been doing it? 5 MS. HYDE: Well, I believe that in the past, we've 6 had some applications for employment that once we got them 7 into an interview process and we began asking some open-ended 8 and searching questions, we found out that we had, in fact, 9 had some folks that had been arrested and had had felonies, 10 and yet they were still applying for open positions within the 11 county. So, I think that this will help us when we do the 12 prescreening process, rather than get to the final application 13 process. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's some examples of 15 kinds of -- of background information that would disqualify 16 someone from employment? 17 MS. HYDE: At this point, we do not want felons. It 18 is mostly to do with criminal background; it's not personal. 19 It has nothing to do with a personality. It has to do with 20 whether or not a person has been convicted or arrested, and do 21 they, in fact -- are they telling the truth on their 22 application? When the application process is out, it asks 23 specific questions, and a background check can show if that 24 person is, in fact, being truthful. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, the -- spending the 12-27-06 16 1 money for these background checks will theoretically result in 2 a better quality work force in the future? 3 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, it should help. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any circumstance where 5 we would allow a -- a felon to -- you know, that's done his -- 6 whatever his -- served his time or done whatever he needed to 7 do in society, that we would go ahead and hire a felon? 8 MS. HYDE: Well, I'm sure that we would want to 9 discuss it. In most offices, at least in the courthouse -- 10 I'm sure that the Sheriff can also answer whether or not 11 someone could apply as a deputy. But in the courthouse, we 12 take in a lot of money, so if there is a convicted felon, I 13 think we would want to discuss it internally and make a 14 determination, especially through policies and procedures, 15 rather than just allow people to come in and work for us that 16 could, in fact, be a convicted felon. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I support -- I mean, I 18 definitely -- I like the fact that it's a good truth detector 19 on the applicant, and like the fact of knowing it. But I'm 20 not sure that -- it depends on the situation, that you would 21 want -- I mean, just automatically disqualify anyone for being 22 a felon, depending on the circumstances. 23 MS. HYDE: Well, I mean, you could be -- the laws 24 have changed, so I'll use 20 years ago when I was getting out 25 of high school. Pot was the -- was a flavor for a lot of 12-27-06 17 1 folks, so I think that the amount of pot has changed. Back 2 then, I think, you know, a small bag was considered a felony 3 with intent to resell. So, if a guy or a gal perhaps had a 4 felony for that 20 years ago and has been completely clean 5 since, I think that we have to use our common judgment and 6 common sense to look at it. Has he or she continued on that 7 road, or have they cleaned their act up? Et cetera, et 8 cetera. Again, I think that'd be something we'd want to talk 9 about. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's something that we 11 do a rewrite of our personnel policy. I'd let them put it in, 12 both Sheriff's Department and the County Attorney, on what our 13 policy should be in that area. I don't have a -- a definite 14 feeling one way or the other. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you need to run those 16 checks. And you're talking about criminal checks, 'cause it's 17 not unusual to have somebody move from another state where 18 they've had a lot of problems. Maybe they've had, you know, 19 100 hot checks or theft cases, or registered sex offenders or 20 something like that. Unless you run those checks, you don't 21 find that out. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd move approval of the 24 request of the H.R. Director to establish a line item of $500 25 for background checks, and transfer $500 from Commissioners 12-27-06 18 1 Court Contingency to that line item. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 4 indicated. Any further question or discussion on the motion? 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One more thing. I think 6 you're going to find that -- that federal law prohibits the 7 discrimination against people on the basis of criminal history 8 unless the -- the offense is job-related. And I'm not going 9 to pretend to define what that means. I think it means that 10 if -- if I've got a -- a conviction for hot checks, that 11 that's not related to my application for a job working for 12 Road and Bridge. That's all. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 15 the motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 16 your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 21 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6, if we might. 23 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to move $550 24 from Maintenance, Custodial and Ground Supplies, to Uniforms 25 line item to purchase steel-toed boots and proper safety 12-27-06 19 1 eyewear for Maintenance personnel. Mr. Bollier? 2 MR. BOLLIER: I do believe that my personnel need 3 these safety -- these steel-toed boots and proper eyewear. 4 And it's just to work safely. That's all I have. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 8 indicated. Any question or discussion on the motion? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next item, 14 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on a new safety 15 policy for the Maintenance Department, that being one pair of 16 safety boots and eyewear to be included annually for each 17 employee, not to exceed $125; if additional are needed due to 18 loss or destruction, the employee would be responsible for 19 replacement, and the items would be required eye and footwear 20 as part of the job. This is obviously related to the item 21 that we just talked about, isn't it? 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with it, but I 25 think my preference is going to be -- where'd Eva go? 12-27-06 20 1 Whenever we're working with the personnel policy overall to 2 add this under that part, I don't know that we really -- you 3 know, if you feel we need to -- right now to make your people 4 do it, we can do it now, but I really think probably it needs 5 to come under the old, more all-encompassing -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of that may already be 7 there, Commissioner, under the accident prevention policy that 8 the County had through TAC, through worker's comp. It's a 9 very thick policy that covers a whole lot of different 10 equipment that employees are supposed to be issued. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So I think you can 12 probably require it without a court order, Tim. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, Commissioner. I 14 think it should be stated as a part of the personnel policy 15 handbook that's being worked on by Ms. Hyde now. And then the 16 -- the money for that equipment gets built annually into your 17 budget, based on what you think your turnover might be or 18 whatever. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you can proceed without 20 a court order. 21 MR. BOLLIER: I can proceed without a court order? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. As -- as 23 supervisor of -- manager of that department, I think you have 24 the right to require your employees to conform with safety 25 policy, which obviously that is. 12-27-06 21 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you very much. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's move on to Item 8; 5 consider and discuss report from the Kerr County Historical 6 Committee. Mr. Schellhase, good to see you here this morning. 7 MR. SCHELLHASE: I have to apologize to the Court 8 for not having this report in timely so that you could review 9 it and study it, have all your questions prepared for me with 10 regards to the activities of the Historical Commission for the 11 past year. But due to the Christmas holidays and me being out 12 of town, and the Commission did not meet until the 18th to 13 make the final decision on the board of directors and the 14 leadership, so therefore, I'm presenting these at this time. 15 The membership this year for the board is expanded 16 substantially with regards to those people that have requested 17 to be members of the Historical Commission and participate in 18 those activities, which we're providing you under Leadership. 19 For the coming year, Haskell Fine will be the chairman, Joe 20 Luther will be the vice chairman, and Lew Williams will be the 21 secretary. The specific committees that have been assigned so 22 far for the coming year are those shown. The only significant 23 change is Irene Van Winkle will be doing the Oral History for 24 us, and Paul Parks will be taking up a new activity we have 25 for this year for the Junior Historical Leadership Program 12-27-06 22 1 which has been established with the Kerrville Independent 2 School District. 3 We've had some substantial changes in the marker 4 program. As you know, in the past we've prepared markers, or 5 recommended to the State of Texas for those places we felt 6 like ought to have markers on a regular basis. Texas has 7 changed that procedure, and now we can only submit an 8 application between December -- the first part of December and 9 the 2nd of January, which means we can only accumulate all 10 this data and prepare them for submission during this period 11 of time. So, therefore, there's none submitted at this time, 12 although we have four that are pending; La Hacienda, the 13 Guthrie Building, the Kerrville Times, and the Page House. We 14 think that's going to be a real handicap on getting markers. 15 We're not for sure how that program's going to work overall 16 because of the fact that we'll have to wait until they process 17 the entire batch that comes in at the end of the year, which 18 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000, 20,000 statewide. 19 They'll then come back to us and tell us whether or not we 20 need additional information. If, in fact, we do, then we have 21 to wait another year to submit that application -- resubmit 22 it. 23 So, it looks like to me it's going to be a long, 24 drawn-out process, but we'll continue to work within that 25 framework. The guidelines have not been published yet. We 12-27-06 23 1 hope to have them in the next few weeks. Again, they'll be 2 going into effect very soon. The major project, as presented 3 to the Court several weeks ago, will be the landscaping and 4 the improvement for the parking around the entrance to the 5 Union Church Building. Those funds are -- as we've indicated, 6 will be raised by the Friends, and that's a program that they 7 now have underway. Oral history is on somewhat of a 8 standstill at this time, due to the lack of time that Ann 9 Bethel has devoted to that and the process of switching that 10 over to Irene. Irene has been doing a lot of work for the 11 paper where she's employed with regards to historical stories 12 that she's presented over the years, which we think gives her 13 a great background in being able to participate in this 14 program and help us out a whole lot in that program. As of 15 right now, we have -- I believe it's between 55 and 60 16 completed programs that are on the library shelf, available 17 for those people to research those programs as they so choose. 18 We've presented to you the budget that you gave us last year 19 and those expenditures, how they were spent, with the 20 exception of about $11 that we had left over to turn back to 21 the County. 22 For 2007 projects, budget-wise, we presented the 23 budget as we foresee those funds being expended. The Union 24 Church Building will not be the recipient of any of those 25 funds for the coming year, except for minor repair. There's 12-27-06 24 1 some equipment replacement that has to be done in the church 2 itself -- in the building itself. The sound system has 3 suffered some damage, and the front door needs refinishing 4 again, all of these that we've discussed with Alyce, so she's 5 aware of what we have to do. In addition to the Union Church 6 building, the activities for the coming year primarily are 7 going to be devoted to trying to finish the project that we've 8 been working on for numerous years, and that's the GPS 9 location of all of the cemeteries. We do have our plat 10 finished of the location of all those cemeteries, and now have 11 the GPS locations located on our map, and that will kind of 12 finish that program up for us. 13 The photo project that we started two or three years 14 ago, we're still trying to get that underway a little bit 15 better than it is at this time, and that's to establish photos 16 year by year of Kerr County, of what -- what exists at the 17 time, and being able to compare it back to years in the past. 18 We do not plan on doing a calendar this year, as in the past. 19 The sales on those have slipped substantially. The membership 20 has improved somewhat as we presented for the coming year. 21 The video and the presentation for historical presentations is 22 going to be a high item for the coming year also. As I said, 23 we'll continue to work within the historical marker guidelines 24 that are being presented and try to work those programs that 25 we now have. 12-27-06 25 1 The significant item that we have at this time is 2 the Guthrie Building. The -- we requested the State to move 3 the marker for the newspaper, the Mountain Sun, from the 4 existing building on McFarland Street, when that building was 5 no longer the Mountain Sun, to the Guthrie Building. That 6 request was turned down by the State saying we could not 7 locate it on the building because it is not a building marker, 8 but a subject marker. Which we knew ahead of time, but 9 thought we'd try anyway. We then went to the City to request 10 that we place this marker in the island -- in the landscaping 11 island in front of the Guthrie Building. The reason for this 12 is the Guthrie Building was the original newspaper publishing 13 house. The City has turned us down -- well, I shouldn't say 14 the City; Mindy Wendele has basically turned us down for 15 location of this marker in front of the Guthrie Building, 16 although we had approval from all of the other members of City 17 staff. Our only recourse now is to return that marker to the 18 State to put it in the archives until we -- unless we can get 19 that approved by the City. We have not taken it up with the 20 City Manager, but I will before the end of the -- or the 21 beginning of the coming year. That's the only marker left in 22 the works. We do not want that going back to the State to put 23 in the archives. We feel like it's a part of Kerr County 24 history, and it should be exhibited someplace. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: General Schellhase, may I ask 12-27-06 26 1 a question about all that? Now, the Guthrie Building is the 2 one right over here on the corner? 3 MR. SCHELLHASE: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it was established when? 5 I can't remember either. 1800 and -- 6 MR. SCHELLHASE: Early 18's, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- something. And why would 8 Ms. Wendele file an objection for that? I don't understand 9 why. 10 MR. SCHELLHASE: Let's see. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the objection? 12 MR. SCHELLHASE: I got her phone number for you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you'd have presented this 14 earlier, I'd have had an opportunity to visit with you about 15 it. 16 MR. SCHELLHASE: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't understand. If -- 18 MR. SCHELLHASE: I think the -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the City staff has 20 approved it, she -- what is her -- what is her status? 21 MR. SCHELLHASE: She feels like that we don't need 22 to start locating stuff within those decorative islands that 23 we have pavers located in, as I understand it. I have not 24 spoken to Mindy yet; I only spoke to Dennis Kneese, who heads 25 that department up and is responsible for that, who informed 12-27-06 27 1 me that all City staff approved it except Mindy. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, help me understand 3 something, or somebody help me understand. What is her 4 authority in this? 5 MR. SCHELLHASE: Main Street Program manager. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 7 MR. SCHELLHASE: And the landscaping and the islands 8 and things fall under the Main Street Program. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. City government's a 10 strange animal. I don't get it. 11 MR. SCHELLHASE: Well, we haven't given up yet. 12 But -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. SCHELLHASE: -- just so the Court knows the 15 status of that, in the event we have to return this to the 16 state, which we would like not to do. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you, General. 18 That's an important marker to retain. 19 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I'm wondering, would 21 the -- would the state Historical Commission permit mounting 22 that marker on a pole? An iron pole, in the proximity of the 23 building. Not necessarily in that little area that 24 Ms. Wendele turned you down on, but in proximity to the 25 building, but not on the building. Because that's where -- 12-27-06 28 1 that's the site that the newspaper started. 2 MR. SCHELLHASE: Unfortunately, the building is 3 located on the property line all the way around, and that's 4 our problem. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you. 6 MR. SCHELLHASE: We -- we started to locate it on 7 the Main Street side in a small grass area, and then ask 8 forgiveness, but -- that might happen. But we felt like the 9 appropriate place was, in that we couldn't put it on the 10 building, would be located in the front of the building, where 11 we do have a bench sitting right there. The City has allowed 12 a -- a light to be located in the planting area around the oak 13 tree there lighting the building, so we think there's 14 certainly a precedence for us to put that marker in front of 15 the building. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 17 MR. SCHELLHASE: But that's the only item that we 18 have hanging in the wind with regards to historical markers, 19 and we will iron that out. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before you leave historical 21 markers, good time to ask the question. Does the City, 22 through the -- their sales tax, fund Historical Commission in 23 any way, or have they ever? 24 MR. SCHELLHASE: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have y'all requested? The 12-27-06 29 1 reason I bring it up is that, I mean, it's supposed to be kind 2 of a -- an economic improvement and development, all that 3 stuff is used for those funds, and a large percentage of the 4 work that the Historical Commission's done is in the city 5 limits of Kerrville. In fact, most of the ones listed right 6 here are -- or not -- La Hacienda isn't, but there are 7 buildings in Kerrville which clearly enhance what the City's 8 trying to do. It seems they should help participate in some 9 of this, you know, as well. And they fund a lot of other 10 things through their 4B sales tax, and this would be a similar 11 type thing that they should fund, in my mind, or at least 12 consider. 13 MR. SCHELLHASE: I guess you're making reference to 14 the hotel tax. There is a certain amount of those funds that 15 can be given to historical projects, of which the Historical 16 Commission was the recipient of $15,000 at the very beginning 17 of the restoration of the Union Church building, to move the 18 building. That came from those funds. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. SCHELLHASE: So I would assume there may be, you 21 know, specific projects that may be eligible for -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just wondering if they can 23 cover operations. They seem to do -- anyway, it might be 24 something to pursue for some additional funding. 25 MR. SCHELLHASE: We -- the C.V.B. publishes the 12-27-06 30 1 brochure, or participates in the publishing of the historical 2 brochure that we have located at historical markers within the 3 city, so they do that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. SCHELLHASE: So there's funds in that case. 6 We're still located in the building behind the library on the 7 second floor. We still hope to, in the coming year, do the 8 renovation to the downstairs part of that building so we can 9 use it for -- adequately for interviews and recording of the 10 oral histories. As you know, the longer we wait doing our 11 oral histories, the less we will have. We've lost several the 12 past year, and I figure to have that project moving as rapidly 13 as it could. We do participate with the Kerr Arts and Crafts 14 Foundation. We have the -- the display over there once a 15 year, of which we put up the historical photos and/or 16 particular -- pick a particular subject and highlight it. 17 This year it will be all of the historical pictures that we 18 had made for the 150th celebration which will go on display at 19 our time, which I believe will be in March of this year. And, 20 of course, our publicity keeps being prepared by Lew Williams, 21 of which we've done a good job in the past year in coverage. 22 We'd like to request the approval of this report as submitted, 23 and which will, in turn, approve the directors and officers 24 for the coming year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval and acceptance 12-27-06 31 1 of the report as presented. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Any question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more quick question. What's 7 the Family Ranch Program? 8 MR. SCHELLHASE: The state of Texas publishes a 9 volume each year of those ranches that have been in a single 10 family for over 100, 150, 200 years. In order to have Kerr 11 County listed in that, we must apply for that. The cost is 12 $50, and we prepare that list that goes in there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 MR. SCHELLHASE: If we don't give them $50, even 15 though the ranches have been over that length of time, they 16 just drop it out. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 18 General, I want to thank you and the Historical Commission, 19 and -- and also the Chamber and Joe Herring and Brian Bondy 20 and all those other folks that were of immeasurable assistance 21 to us in our sesquicentennial celebration. But for the 22 efforts of all of those organizations, including yours, I 23 don't think it would have been nearly as effective and nearly 24 as successful, and I really appreciate your help. 25 MR. SCHELLHASE: Thank you. 12-27-06 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? All in favor of 2 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, General. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Let's move to Item 9 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve a 10 loan to purchase three pieces of leased Road and Bridge 11 equipment and authorize County Judge to sign documents for 12 same. Mr. Odom. 13 MR. ODOM: Good morning. Hope everybody had a good 14 Christmas. We came to you several weeks ago to explain our 15 situation about obtaining new leases and ask permission to 16 purchase three pieces of equipment we've leased for the five 17 years. The Auditor has obtained a loan for all three pieces 18 at a good rate. At this time, we ask you to approve the loan, 19 give us permission to pay off the equipment, and allow the 20 Judge to sign any documents needed to complete the process. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is all budgeted? 22 MR. ODOM: All budgeted. They -- basically, what -- 23 you know, before that, they were talking about doubling our 24 lease rate, and based upon what Tommy's come up with, the 25 5 percent interest rate, I've got it amortized over 84 months. 12-27-06 33 1 That note, minus the current lease that I have, is the 2 difference of $613.41 a month. So, yes, I can -- can handle 3 it in this budget, and next budget we'll make that adjustment 4 there. But that's better than having $2,400 to $3,000 a month 5 extra for a piece of equipment for these -- I mean, they're in 6 good shape. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seems like a good business 8 decision to me. 9 MR. ODOM: I think it's just a good business 10 decision. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I'm glad -- glad you took a 12 look at that option. 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. And we will work -- and as I 14 told the Auditor, we will work toward -- over the next two 15 years, the equipment that we have the lease or the notes on 16 will be paid off. And probably after next year, the second 17 year from now, I'll start making principal payments on that 18 note, and I hope by four or five years, that I'll have it all 19 paid off ahead of time. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How old is it? These all -- 21 MR. ODOM: Five years. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years? 23 MR. ODOM: Five years, all of it. We've had about 24 1,600, 1,700 hours on the maintainer, so it's been a really -- 25 they're good equipment. They're not worn-out. 12-27-06 34 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Just barely broke in, huh? 2 MR. ODOM: Just about, as far as heavy equipment's 3 concerned. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 THE CLERK: I have no motion. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that motion. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 10 of the agenda item. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another question. On these, is 14 the -- have you looked at -- I mean, I know that the 15 maintainer is in good condition right now, but if you start 16 getting repairs -- repairs, as you know, are extremely 17 expensive on this type of equipment. What's the difference, 18 buying this versus turning it back in? Can you just turn it 19 back in or re-lease a new piece? 20 MR. ODOM: I could re-lease a new piece, but that 21 note, instead of $1,100, $1,200 a month, would end up 22 doubling. So if you put that together, that's -- that's 23 double the price, and all I need -- I -- what I intend to do 24 is adjust my maintenance budget a little bit each year as I go 25 along to take care of that, in case we do have, you know, some 12-27-06 35 1 equipment. But I'm going to have that -- in two years, I'm 2 going to have that money to sit there. And I believe that I'm 3 in good shape for this next year. Then the chip spreader, 4 $232,000 is paid off in three years. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 6 MR. ODOM: And I feel like I have -- we can handle 7 that. I will adjust that budget out over the next five years 8 to -- you know, to address anything that we might come up 9 major with. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying is, 11 continue to look at it -- I'm sure you will -- that, you know, 12 another 84 months, which this is, plus the five years, that's 13 putting 12 years on some of this equipment, and that stuff 14 starts becoming unreliable, and I don't want us to end up 15 where we were four or five years ago with a bunch of old John 16 Deere equipment that's not in good shape. So, I mean, I think 17 sometime during the term of this, it may be appropriate, once 18 you get some of the things paid off, to sell them -- surplus 19 these, sell these, or trade them in and get something new. 20 MR. ODOM: That is what -- if I get them paid off 21 early, that is -- is what I'm contemplating now, that I will 22 still have residual value that will be significant on each 23 piece of equipment, and then we'd pick up from there. I'd 24 offset that. Right now, they're real proud of the yellow 25 paint. And things are really good. I think over a little bit 12-27-06 36 1 of time, commercial will start coming down over the next two 2 years. I think we'll be in good shape. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good addition. I 4 just don't want to keep the stuff too long. 5 MR. ODOM: I don't want to keep it too long. That's 6 the reason we went to the program, but I'm going to keep my 7 residual value through just three or four years. We'll be in 8 good shape. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Comments? All 11 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 10, 16 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to remove two 17 cattle guards on Bear Creek Road, located in both Precincts 1 18 and 4. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. During the last year, there's 20 been three accident reports involving the cattle guards on 21 Bear Creek Road. Fortunately, the only damages have been to 22 vehicles and cattle guards, and no serious injuries to the 23 citizens. The purpose of the cattle guard is for open range. 24 The landowners surrounding the ones on Bear Creek all have 25 high fences. Therefore, they serve no purpose, and leaving 12-27-06 37 1 them in place on this highly traveled road increases the 2 County's liability. We feel that it's in the best interest of 3 the citizens of Kerr County to remove both cattle guards on 4 Bear Creek, so at this time, we ask permission to do so. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you on the -- on 6 the issue of the livestock -- the livestock issue and the open 7 range issue, that there's literally no livestock roaming up 8 and down the road, so it's not a -- we're not -- the cattle 9 guards are not functioning in that way. In my opinion, 10 because of the increased traffic there, it -- we actually have 11 reached an emergency level. That road out there, you can go 12 down the road, and then all of a sudden, it -- when you get to 13 the cattle guard, it turns into basically one lane. So it's, 14 without a doubt, a safety issue, and I move for approval of 15 this item. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 18 of the agenda item. Any further question or discussion? All 19 in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 24 Item 11, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 25 concept to revise Lots 5 and 6 of Shalako Estates, as set 12-27-06 38 1 forth in Volume 5, Page 66, Plat Records, and located within 2 Precinct 4, and set a public hearing for the same. Mr. Odom. 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Currently two lots in Shalako 4 totaling over 22 acres, with no improvements except for a 5 private 40-foot roadway easement used by Tract 7 that was 6 established years ago when Shalako was put together. The 7 owner wants to cut a 1-acre lot out of his 22 and keep the 8 rest. There is a water system available for the new lot. 9 Even though this does not meet the minimum lot size, it does 10 meet the average, and the lots adjacent to his in Shalako 11 Estates Phase 2 are all approximately 1 acre. Therefore, the 12 individual that -- the owner feels that this is an appropriate 13 division for the area, and asks that the Court approve the 14 concept as presented and set a public hearing date for 15 February the 12th at 10:05 a.m. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand why this 17 doesn't meet our minimum requirement. We have 1-acre minimum 18 lot size with a water system. 19 MR. ODOM: Well, 1 acre -- it's 3 acres with 20 O.S.S.F. There is not a sewer system in there for 1 acre. 21 And it's not in the ETJ; it's not in the high density area. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 acre for lots served by 23 community, public, or shared water systems and served by 24 O.S.S.F. 25 MR. ODOM: Read again? 12-27-06 39 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 acre for lots served by 2 community, public, or shared water systems and served by 3 O.S.S.F., if such O.S.S.F. can be installed in compliance with 4 current order for Kerr County. 5 MR. ODOM: And have the average of 3 acres. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and the average is -- 7 MR. ODOM: Yeah, that's my point. I mean, it 8 does -- to say this is just 1 acre, I just wanted to bring it 9 to the Court. I mean, it meets the average. You could have 10 the 1-acre lot. I mean, of course you could, as long as you 11 have the average of 3. And that's what I'm saying, that it 12 does meet the average of 3. It's 22 acres, and it just can go 13 21 acres out there and an off-size lot for 1. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, yes. I mean, it meets 15 the rules. 16 MR. ODOM: It meets the rules. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we set a public 18 hearing for the revision of Lots 5 and 6 of Shalako Estates, 19 Phase 1, Volume 5, Page 66, in Precinct 4 for February the 20 12th at 10:05 a.m. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set the 23 public hearing as indicated. That's in '07. Any further 24 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 25 by raising your right hand. 12-27-06 40 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 5 to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 6 concept of revision of plat for Lot 96 of Kerrville South II, 7 as set forth in Volume 4, Page 64 of the Plat Records, and set 8 a public hearing for the same. 9 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is in Precinct 1. Lot 96 10 is 6.46 acres. There's currently a house and one manufactured 11 home and two septic and a well. Manufactured home was 12 installed for a family member who has passed away. They want 13 to sell the manufactured home and approximately 1 acre, and 14 retain the 5.46 acres with the home and well. Even though 15 they currently share the well, there's a public water system 16 available for installation, and it's one lot. There's a water 17 system out there. There's adequate road frontage for both 18 lots, and this division meets the average of 3 acres. 19 Therefore, we recommend that you approve the concept to be 20 done under the alternate plat process and set a public hearing 21 for February 12th at 10:10. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the same situation; it 23 meets the rules. 24 MR. ODOM: Meets the rules. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only thought is that I 12-27-06 41 1 asked you not to put anything in my precinct on this agenda, 2 but you did anyway. 3 MR. ODOM: I like you, Commissioner. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know you like me, but I -- 5 that still ticks me off, that you don't follow directions like 6 that. 7 MR. ODOM: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 11 as indicated and set a public hearing for February the 12th, 12 2007, at 10:10 a.m. Any question or discussion on the motion? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only -- only comment is, it has 14 to go through Environmental Health, as all subdivisions do. 15 With the two septics on that -- depends how they're 16 configured, that there could be a problem with that. 17 MR. ODOM: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's up to Environmental 19 Health to look at that mobile home. 20 MR. ODOM: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 22 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 12-27-06 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 2 to Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 3 a concept plan for a 14.22-acre tract on Johnson Creek, and 4 located in Precinct 4. 5 MR. ODOM: Right, sir. This 14.22 acres has an 6 existing house with well and septic. After purchasing the 7 property, they drilled a second well and added three septic 8 systems. They want to divide 14.22 acres -- and this will 9 include the road; that's all-inclusive of the road -- into 10 three lots, making an average of 4.74 acres. The note that 11 they have on the plat says that all the owners would mutually 12 own and share in common these two wells, which has been a 13 requirement, basically, to certify that someone couldn't cut 14 another person off. As presented today, this concept meets 15 the rules, and we ask you to accept the concept and go forward 16 with the preliminary. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does it meet the rules? 18 MR. ODOM: With -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does it meet the rules 20 if it's -- 21 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? 22 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does it meet the rules, 23 Commissioner Letz? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. I'm looking at 25 this plat, and I'm -- there's a lot of stuff on this plat. 12-27-06 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: While you're looking -- 2 MR. ODOM: What happened -- well, the realtor is 3 here. Tommy is here. Tommy, why don't you come up here? 4 Basically, they have had this 14 acres, and my understanding 5 is they went and put three or four septic systems in here 6 prior to. The question we had -- we had Miguel -- I don't 7 know if Tish is here or not. Miguel's not here. We asked 8 Tish to be here. In the meeting -- our concept meeting, we 9 discussed this was a problem to get septic through to make 10 sure this road met their specifications, as well as Headwaters 11 and their well system. And one of the things, this is a 12 shared well concept, which is still good until January the 13 8th, I believe is when we have the public hearing to -- to 14 revise it. So, it's basically a shared well. I would say 15 it's contingent on Headwaters approving the concept as well as 16 O.S.S.F. But Tommy's here to speak a little bit better. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you seen this 18 correspondence from Headwaters? 19 MR. ODOM: No, I haven't. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their board voted against this. 21 MR. ODOM: They did? Is Gene here? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's filed a participation 23 form. We're going to get to him in just a minute. 24 MR. ODOM: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just for purposes of -- of me 12-27-06 44 1 knowing where we are here, is -- is this the property that the 2 California group -- 3 MR. ODOM: That is correct. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we have a 14-acre tract and 6 we're trying to divide it into 8.36 and 2.15 and 2.4? 7 MR. TAYLOR: Correct. What it is, they're all 8 wanting to build them a house on it, and it's an investment 9 group. I know in the future they're going to want to sell, so 10 before they went and they started doing all this, I told them 11 they needed to try to plat it in order to -- because in the 12 future, they're going to -- I don't want it coming back on me 13 if they try to cut any of this up and sell it, and not meeting 14 the criteria at that time. So I told them before they moved 15 forward any more, they need to try to go ahead and get it 16 platted and make sure they meet all the requirements so they 17 could sell it at a future date. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, my only question is -- 19 is to Headwaters and what they have -- what is their 20 opposition? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If you gentlemen will defer 22 for just a moment, we'll get Mr. Williams up here. He's filed 23 a participation form. Come on up, sir. 24 MR. WILLIAMS: I'm Gene Williams, General Manager of 25 Headwaters Groundwater Conservation District. The letter was 12-27-06 45 1 submitted to you as an action from the board of directors last 2 meeting, to urge you to deny this platting. And it seems that 3 maybe the plat that I've been supplied was divided into four 4 lots; may be different from what Mr. Odom has stated in his 5 letter. But, at any rate, the Headwaters Board would urge you 6 to deny any replatting of less than 5-acre tracts where 7 individual wells will be used. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the reason, this 9 5-acre issue? 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the issue? 12 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not -- their proposal is 14 not to use individual wells. Their proposal is to use what is 15 allowed under our current rules, is a shared well, which gets 16 them to a 3-acre average. I mean, I don't think we can -- you 17 know, I mean, under our current rules, I don't think we have 18 the ability to deny it, because they're meeting the rules. 19 And they're talking about there will be a condition put on the 20 lots that they cannot drill individual wells. 21 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As we've done in several other 23 ones recently. Now, it is possible that this rule's going to 24 be changed in January, based on the outcome of the public 25 hearing and what the Commissioners decide to do, but at the 12-27-06 46 1 moment, the rule allows this. 2 MR. WILLIAMS: All right. Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless I'm missing something. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was your board under the 5 impression that this division of plat would require four 6 wells? 7 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that the impression your 9 board had? 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. At some point in time, yes, 11 that's a possibility, since there's no regulation of -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what was 13 represented here. 14 MR. WILLIAMS: -- since there's no regulation of 15 shared wells from -- from the state or from Headwaters. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We acknowledge the -- the issue, 17 and we're trying to correct that issue and eliminate that word 18 in the new -- what has been proposed is that you have to have 19 a licensed system under T.C.E.Q., but that's not the current 20 rules. I understand Headwaters' concern. I think there was a 21 loophole that we created in our last rules. But at this 22 point, that loophole exists, and we can't deny it because of a 23 loophole. Until we change the rules, and we're in the process 24 of doing that. 25 MR. WILLIAMS: We were also following the current 12-27-06 47 1 water availability rule by the County that it does require 2 5 acres. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it doesn't. 4 MR. WILLIAMS: Does not? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not if you're having a shared 6 well. That's the problem. It's -- and shared wells aren't 7 regulated, like you mentioned. That's why we're in the 8 process of trying to change that. I mean -- 9 MR. WILLIAMS: That's the opposition. We don't 10 acknowledge the shared well. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The next step in the 13 process is to hold a public hearing? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This one? No, this one's a -- 15 this is a new one. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Concept plan. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, I think it's a -- 18 the only issue that I see is that this is -- what's the 19 word? -- being slipped in right before a public hearing, you 20 know. But that's -- 'cause the public hearing is set for 21 January 8th, which will change this rule and will make this so 22 you couldn't do this. 23 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, that's -- 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move to approve the 12-27-06 48 1 concept plan for a 14.22-acre tract on Johnson Creek in 2 Precinct 4. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 5 of the concept plan as indicated by the agenda item. Any 6 question or discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Leonard, O.S.S.F. 8 people are not in here, obviously. Do you have any idea what 9 their status is? 10 MR. ODOM: At this point, they -- the question I 11 have, does it meet it? Is it too close? If it's within 12 5 feet of the road or any easement -- I don't know where the 13 lateral lines are, but you can see it; they're not marked. If 14 they're less than 5 feet, then it would be in violation. My 15 understanding is that these septic systems are already in, and 16 they are trying to make this road work past that. I do not 17 have an answer. Miguel was there at that meeting. We had -- 18 they were going to change things up to try to make it work, 19 what they presented earlier, and this is the new concept that 20 -- that they came up with. To me, it looks like it works. 21 Unless -- everything would be contingent on Miguel -- or Tish 22 was supposed to be here to give me an opinion. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you use the word that 24 they are "in," does that mean that there is a tank in the 25 ground and there's sprinklers? 12-27-06 49 1 MR. ODOM: Yes. Yes, sir. These things -- two 2 wells were put in, as well as the septic systems that are 3 designed on the 14 acres. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do we -- how do we get to 5 that point before we even approve this thing? I'm a little 6 mystified by that. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is only approval of 8 the concept. 9 MR. ODOM: We're approving the concept. The 10 preliminary is going to come forward, and we'll find out for 11 sure. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After they've already put the 13 systems in? 14 MR. ODOM: They're going to go back to -- if the 15 Court doesn't approve it, they're going to go back to 16 14 acres. But right now, as it's presented right here, it 17 looks good to me. I'm not an O.S.S.F. person, and I've asked 18 for an opinion; I haven't got it yet. Miguel's gone. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, they're going 20 to have to meet all our subdivision rules to get final 21 approval. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And that includes O.S.S.F. 24 MR. ODOM: For design. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 12-27-06 50 1 MR. ODOM: It's fine with me. This is unique; I 2 always end up with unique things. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Commissioner Baldwin's 4 concern is -- it's one that we frown on historically, is that 5 when developers go -- or property owners go and do things 6 before they -- and then come back afterwards for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the cart before the 8 horse here. 9 MR. ODOM: The system is not the problem. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, I don't know that 11 they can't -- the septic issue is not something that's really 12 addressed in our subdivision rules, so -- you know, even 13 though they're kind of doing it kind of backwards here. One 14 thing I would -- the way I look at this, this concept shows 15 three lots, and that's kind of what I think we're looking at. 16 But I think knowing that there is a rule change proposed -- 17 whether it's going to go through or not in January, I don't 18 know. But if this was reconfigured to have larger -- get the 19 lots at least, you know, two at 5 and one just under 5, it 20 would probably go a long ways to improve the situation. And 21 the reason being that it gets very close to meeting -- if they 22 just need individual wells, they're getting closer to -- you 23 know, they have two lots that meet the individual well 24 requirements of Headwaters and our water availability rules, 25 and it would have one lot then as 4.22 acres, which is a lot, 12-27-06 51 1 probably, better than having two 2-acre lots, trying to get 2 individual wells if things happen down the road. And also, it 3 would give more flexibility, I think, to the property owners. 4 They would only have to have an individual well on one lot, 5 and then a shared well just between two people, as opposed to 6 three. 7 MR. ODOM: I can present -- you have a point, 8 Commissioner. However, they meet the criteria here. And 9 we'll address that -- I'll address that with Tommy, and we'll 10 see if we can come up -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're meeting the criteria, 12 but I think they're also a little bit in a limbo situation, 13 because technically, they're not going to have preliminary 14 plat approval until we look at our rule change, and it's -- I 15 think historically, we have looked at preliminary plat as the 16 date -- the rules you go by. So, if we do our rule change 17 prior to their coming with a preliminary plat, which we will 18 if we do the rule change, they're going to be in a little bit 19 of a tenuous situation. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to ask the realtor a 21 question -- actually, two. Where is this? Is this next to 22 the Cailloux property? 23 MR. TAYLOR: To which property? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Cailloux-owned property. 25 MR. TAYLOR: I don't -- I don't know that property. 12-27-06 52 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. TAYLOR: This would be located right there at 3 Henderson Branch where you turn to go down -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right there on the left? 5 MR. TAYLOR: Correct. It would be just past that on 6 the left. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, next door to the 8 Cailloux's. Now, I'm just curious about this. Is -- you said 9 there was a company and their board of directors individually 10 are buying this? 11 MR. TAYLOR: Well, I don't know exactly how they're 12 structured. I know there's several partners that have 13 purchased the property. Jack Warnebo is the one that I deal 14 with directly, and they've got a partnership set up in 15 California with a group of guys; they're all wanting to build 16 a home out here so when they come in, they're not staying in a 17 hotel or somewhere. They do have one residence here already, 18 but if more than one of them comes in at a time, they don't -- 19 there's not enough room for all of them. They'd like to bring 20 guests down to show our -- our hill country to, try to get 21 them to -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A real estate company? 23 MR. TAYLOR: No, they're not a real estate company, 24 so to speak. He's bought a few pieces of property. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Partnership? 12-27-06 53 1 MR. TAYLOR: I don't know the legal terms, as far as 2 what they are. He's just an individual investor I've been 3 working with, but he has a group that is backing him out of 4 California. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. It has 6 nothing to do with the -- I was just curious about all that. 7 MR. TAYLOR: That's fine. And what they're doing, 8 they were already -- originally, when they started and they 9 were going to build these houses, they -- we tried to get a 10 survey to mark out the pieces of property for the bank to 11 have -- show where the loan -- where the house was going to be 12 built for the loan purposes. After talking to the surveyor, 13 he said, "Y'all really need to probably go ahead and plat all 14 this." Because being an investment group, different ones may 15 want to sell off at different times. Otherwise, you're going 16 to have to sell -- excuse me, sell off all at one time. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are any homes under 18 construction now? 19 MR. TAYLOR: No, they've put everything to a stop 20 once we found out all that out. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there any septics in the 22 ground? 23 MR. TAYLOR: Yes, sir. There -- there's an old 24 septic at the existing residence. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the existing? 12-27-06 54 1 MR. TAYLOR: There was a house on the property when 2 they bought it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 MR. TAYLOR: Down here. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there any new septics? 6 MR. TAYLOR: Correct, there are three new septics on 7 the property. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In anticipation of 9 positioning a home? 10 MR. TAYLOR: Correct. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on this subdivision of 12 land? 13 MR. TAYLOR: Correct. Well, they put -- they are 14 putting it all in. They had all picked out where they wanted 15 to put a house, and then when they went to the surveyor and 16 tried to get everything lined out so they could get the loans 17 to build the homes, that's when they found out that we ought 18 to go ahead and subdivide everything for legal purposes, so in 19 the future they could sell and not have to worry about it at 20 that time. So, once they -- once they hit that spot, they'd 21 already -- we had everything in, as far as what they wanted to 22 do with the surveyor. After we got those lines in, they went 23 back out, started putting the septics in, and after that is 24 when we were told that we need to move forward and probably 25 try to plat it. 12-27-06 55 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a bad idea. 2 MR. TAYLOR: From the surveyor. Well, I mean, it's 3 one of those things they didn't think about. They were just 4 looking at a group of people having a house, and didn't think 5 about if any of them wanted to get out before the other ones, 6 that they couldn't cut off a piece and sell it. They'd have 7 to sell the whole 14 acres with all four homes, and that would 8 be a difficult sell. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, the facts are that they 10 have two wells and three septic tanks, and they're going to 11 have that whether we approve the subdivision or not. 12 MR. ODOM: It's already there. 13 MR. TAYLOR: It's four. 14 MR. ODOM: Four septics? 15 MR. TAYLOR: Four septics. 16 MR. ODOM: And two wells. 17 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My letter says three. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my concern is that both 19 wells, as shown on this plat, are on the same tract. So, by 20 reconfiguring their lots, they can clearly get two wells and 21 two lots in total compliance, and one would be very close; it 22 would be .23 acres under the 5-acre minimum. 23 MR. TAYLOR: From how it was explained to me -- and 24 I could be interpreting it wrong, 'cause I'm not real good on 25 a lot of this. The existing well -- the oldest well down 12-27-06 56 1 there with the existing home falls back, because it's 2 grandfathered in where it doesn't have to be on the 5 acres 3 per their requirements, because it was drilled before those 4 rules and regulations came in. But the new well that they 5 drilled up towards the front of the property, up by Highway 6 27, needs to be on 5 acres. We originally had four lots with 7 this -- the 8-acre tract divided into a 5-acre tract and then 8 a 3 and a half-acre tract. But they went ahead and put 9 everything just in one lot to try to make it a larger -- and 10 then they figured it would be easier to sell the two -- I mean 11 the one lot with two homes rather than -- 12 MR. ODOM: Yeah. And lot one was a father/son, 13 right? 14 MR. TAYLOR: Correct. 15 MR. ODOM: Father/son was on Lot 1. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, I understand 17 that part of it. I'm just saying that from a -- a long-term 18 standpoint, it would -- it's going to help a whole lot if you 19 get those wells on two different tracts, 'cause it's going to 20 be a real problem down the road. Because, you know, the 21 shared water systems, while they're currently allowed in our 22 rules, they're probably being taken out -- recommended to be 23 taken out, because they cause problems. This is an ideal 24 situation where I see a problem developing on it. So, if you 25 get the wells on -- you know, we don't want to -- at least I 12-27-06 57 1 don't want to pass a plat that knowingly is going to cause 2 Headwaters headaches, which this does. So, if we get two 3 wells, one well on one 5-acre tract, another well on another 4 5-acre tract, that leaves one lot that's just under 5 acres, 5 and that's under a shared well system for that one. I think 6 it just cleans it up a whole lot, long-term. 7 MR. TAYLOR: Okay. I do understand what you're 8 saying. I agree with that to -- a lot. The problem I see is, 9 if we're under -- we're trying to do everything under 10 everybody's rules and regulations, except for everything isn't 11 on the same page right now. They started this back in 12 September. It's just taken a long time to try to get it to 13 this point. Yes, they are trying to get everything in so they 14 can move forward. That's why we're here today. They're not 15 trying to be sneaky and, I mean, go around -- we're trying to 16 meet everybody's requirements, and what we have here is just 17 the best way that we could come up with it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Commissioner Letz is 19 trying to give you a suggestion here. 20 MR. TAYLOR: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A helpful hint and a 22 suggestion that the rule is likely to change. And you'd come 23 nearer to being in compliance with a rule that is likely to 24 change if you were to heed his suggestion. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- I'm trying to work 12-27-06 58 1 with y'all. I just don't see how it causes a problem, the way 2 that I see it, if lots are configured to make two 5-acre lots 3 where the wells are, or maybe two 5-acre lots and put -- if 4 you can ideally put the grandfathered well on the -- the 5 smallest tract. 6 MR. TAYLOR: Yeah, I understand that. But with the 7 septics already being in the ground and the wells already in 8 place -- if they weren't there, it would be a lot easier to 9 move everything around, but I can't -- I mean, we've played 10 with this a long time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the owner's fault. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what Commissioner Letz is 13 trying to indicate to you, even though a concept plan may be 14 approved today under current rules, the normal date at which 15 you're pegged for precedent is the date that you file your 16 preliminary plat, and by the time you do that, the rules may 17 be considerably different. So, what he's saying is -- 18 MR. TAYLOR: Doesn't matter? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- even though we approve a concept 20 plan today, we need to tell you in all candor up front that 21 this whole thing may be totally out the window come 30 days. 22 MR. TAYLOR: I appreciate that. That's not how it 23 was explained through the whole point up to here. That's the 24 first that anyone has said of any of that. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd say that approval here 12-27-06 59 1 of your final plat by this Court is probably in a great deal 2 of jeopardy. Sounds to me like it's not going to happen. 3 MR. TAYLOR: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't see -- and, I mean, 5 I'm trying to work with you. 6 MR. TAYLOR: I understand. And I'm put in -- I'm 7 put in a bad situation also. 8 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, you are. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you try to reconfigure lot 10 lines to get 5-acre tracts, we've been pretty lenient on how 11 people configure lots in this court to get to the 5 acres. I 12 know you do have some septic rules, but it sure would make 13 sense to me to try to get that existing grandfathered well on 14 the smaller acre -- on 4.27 acres, and the new well on a 15 5-acre tract, and leave the other 5-acre tract, and then 16 you're pretty much free to do what you want. 17 MR. ODOM: He could divide this into four lots, 18 right? 5-acre tract on Lot 1 up there, right? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three lots. 20 MR. ODOM: No. Are you saying put this into three 21 lots? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in three lots now. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I see is three lots. 25 MR. ODOM: I understand, but the father/son -- 12-27-06 60 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, there's four. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see three lots. Where are 3 four lots? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: There's three. One comes all the way 5 down. 6 MR. ODOM: You've got a problem with the septic 7 systems and the well. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, this one comes all the 9 way down. 10 MR. ODOM: You've got the father and the son. If 11 you divided that, you'd still have one, two, three, four lots; 12 one at 5, one at 3.36, 3 stays the same and 2 stays the same, 13 right? You would still have the average of 3 acres or more. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're saying if we change our 15 rules, they're going to have to go to a 5-acre average. The 16 rule that's been proposed is going to make this be a 5-acre 17 average on January 8th. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm even more confused 19 now, if that's possible. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've got two maps here. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The one that -- the map that 22 was in support of the document sent over here by Headwaters 23 shows four lots. 24 MR. ODOM: That was the original that they came in 25 to us with, right. Then they came back with this; they 12-27-06 61 1 changed it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. They got -- see this dividing 3 line? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right there, yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And these have changed a little bit. 6 MR. TAYLOR: We moved the road a little bit to try 7 and get a little bit further away from the septics, and then 8 we put the cul-de-sac on, 'cause it was not there. We'd gone 9 in to Len, and he'd noted a bunch of changes that needed to be 10 on the plat that -- that he saw at that point. We went back 11 and made a bunch of those changes and resubmitted for concept. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks to me like if you try and 13 accomplish the objective that Commissioner Letz is talking 14 about, the difficulty is going to be 2 and 3 with the two 15 residences on the -- looks like it's going to be the southeast 16 side of the road, and something's going to have to be done 17 there. That looks like your difficulty. Of course, you got 18 one septic system that there'll be access to. 19 MR. TAYLOR: I think I've got an idea. I mean, I 20 don't know -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's not ideal. 22 MR. TAYLOR: That's what I was -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's ideal for putting lots on 24 two sides of the road, a private road, and I think we could -- 25 you know, that would work if you could configure those lots 12-27-06 62 1 somewhere along those lines. 2 MR. TAYLOR: That's what I was looking at, was 3 something similar. But -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't have to be -- that's 5 just an idea, quickly just looking at trying to divide that 6 up. 7 MR. TAYLOR: We got a five, this is five, and then a 8 two. 9 MR. ODOM: A two. 10 MR. TAYLOR: I notice -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's something for you to go back 12 to your people with, though. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just kind of a -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The point is, you need to be on 15 notice that things are apt to change materially come the first 16 of next month. And your start date for legal purposes is 17 probably going to be after that, and I don't see how you're 18 going to be able to come back here before then. Do we have a 19 motion? 20 THE CLERK: I have a motion and second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: To approve the concept plan? 22 THE CLERK: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Under existing rules? 24 THE CLERK: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 12-27-06 63 1 discussion on the pending motion? The pending motion is to 2 approve the concept plan under the current rules. All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa. Question. Why would 5 we do that? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I made the motion, I 8 withdraw it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll withdraw my second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further by any member of the 11 Court on this particular item? 12 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's been so long ago, I 13 can't remember who made the motion. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's -- thank you, gentlemen. Let's 15 move to Item 14. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 16 action on City of Kerrville's response to the Kerr County 17 Commissioners' proposed joint dispatch study committee. I put 18 this on the agenda. As you recall, we passed a resolution 19 several months ago to appoint a committee, suggesting the 20 appointment of the committee by both the City and the County 21 for purposes of taking a look at joint dispatch, and the City 22 considered that. The Council took action on it, and the 23 response is included within your materials. The -- the 24 response of the City recommended limiting the number on the 25 committee to seven, from the Sheriff's Department, Kerrville 12-27-06 64 1 Police Department, Kerrville Dispatch, Kerr County Dispatch, 2 and 911 Director, Kerrville Fire Department, EMS, and the 3 county volunteer fire departments and First Responders having 4 one member on there. 5 The original -- original resolution which we 6 forwarded over there would have had representatives from the 7 City Manager, the -- our County Auditor, and representatives 8 from one or more -- from either the Commissioners Court and 9 City Council -- actually, both. It appears that the City 10 Council took their action in response to a request by the 11 Kerrville Police Chief, Chief John Young, in reducing the 12 numbers on the committee. I -- I was curious, after reading 13 an article in the local newspaper, about his rationale, in 14 which he said, "I have no problem participating in the 15 committee. I have a problem with the makeup of the committee. 16 We don't need representatives from the City Manager's office, 17 the County Auditor, from the County Commissioners, or from the 18 City Council. Oftentimes when we have these entities on a 19 committee, we don't get anything done." Be curious to know 20 what his City Manager's thought was to that comment, but -- I 21 guess next time I see him, I'll ask him. 22 It occurs to me that -- that the parties that are 23 going to be paying the bill, that being this Court and the 24 City Council, I think, have a material stake in what that 25 committee does. With representatives from this Court and the 12-27-06 65 1 Council, I think it's appropriate that they be there. The -- 2 of course, our Auditor was on there for the basis -- or at 3 least, as proposed by us, because of the funding issues. The 4 City Manager because of -- he's overall responsible for 5 management over at the city. So, I tend to think that our 6 suggestion that those four folks -- or four types of 7 representatives are appropriate on the committee. I'm also 8 curious as to what committees that Chief Young has been on 9 that had representatives from the city and the county that 10 didn't get anything done because of those representatives 11 there. I'd be interested if he could tell us about that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Particularly in Kerr County. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yes, it would have to be in 14 Kerr County. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't know and don't care 16 what they do in Dallas. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't ask. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm just saying, if 19 that's what he's referring to, his previous stint in the city 20 of Dallas, I couldn't care less what they did up there, how 21 well they get along. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall Chief Young being 23 on any committee the County's been a part of. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my point. I don't know the 25 experience factor from which he's speaking here when he says 12-27-06 66 1 that when we have these entities on a committee, we don't get 2 anything done. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I mean, I think to -- the 4 letter came from the City of Kerrville. If they choose not to 5 have the City Council members and the City Manager on the 6 committee, fine, but we will have a Commissioner and the 7 Auditor on our -- representing us. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's just the way I look at 10 it. I don't see any reason to change it. I think it goes to 11 a fundamental difference in how we govern between counties and 12 cities, is that Council views themselves -- and it is -- I 13 think it's a policy matter. They don't get involved in the 14 details. We do get involved, and we actually manage over 15 here. Therefore, you know, we need to be involved. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a representative 17 government, and I would expect our elected representatives 18 that -- that represent the county to be there and be part of 19 the decision-making body. And I really like the idea of the 20 Auditor being there. I think that that is very wise to track 21 numbers and be able to give advice on numbers and how we 22 function over here, et cetera. My only question is, are we 23 going to have one commissioner or two? That's the only 24 question I have. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When I drafted that 12-27-06 67 1 resolution and sent it over to 911, the Judge and I talked 2 about inclusion. The whole purpose was not -- not to bollox 3 it up and make it not workable. The whole purpose was to try 4 to have as many of the decision makers who influence the 5 funding and operations together as possible so that we didn't 6 leave anything materially out. Now -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Commissioner Oehler-elect 8 is in the audience; he might be a fine person to... 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he would too. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you've been giving 12 these kinds of assignments to Number 4 for four years now. 13 Why not -- why stop now? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you accept this 15 assignment, Number 4? (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then it goes with the chair. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it goes with the chair. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think when Commissioner Williams 19 and I were talking about the resolution and makeup of the 20 committee, I think our -- our basic thinking was we wanted to 21 get the major stakeholders involved, because if they weren't 22 involved and if a plan or a proposal came back that there 23 wasn't at least that input on, that may have prevented the 24 work of the committee from being effective. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 12-27-06 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And so that was our whole rationale 2 behind it. And that's -- at least seems to be exactly 3 contrary to what Chief Young believes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway... 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Or may have some experience about 6 somewhere. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, Judge, did we act -- 8 did we adopt this, or did we just draft it and send it over? 9 I don't recall that we've acted on this before. We drafted 10 it, sent it to 911, and sent it to -- talked to all the 11 various participants, sent it to the City for its review. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think you're 13 correct that it was a draft, I think the reason being we 14 didn't want to unilaterally name the committee. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We wanted to get input from the 17 City. Well, they've given us input, and I think it's probably 18 more appropriate for us just to mention the County 19 representatives to the committee, that we do have ability to 20 do. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, you know, if it makes 22 anybody feel any better, a member of the Council and a member 23 of this Court can -- can obviously function in ex-officio 24 capacity. If that makes anybody feel any better. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an adviser? 12-27-06 69 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, and watchdog and so 2 forth. Adviser. Instead of being an actual participant. The 3 bulk of all these decisions and discussions are going to take 4 place between the Sheriff and Chief of Police and the 911 5 people, knowing what's necessary to make it work. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm discouraged that we're 7 going to find solutions to the things that are wrong with 8 dispatch, and dispatch is not working very well and needs to 9 be fixed. And this is an effort to make an attempt to find a 10 solution to what's wrong with dispatch, and what discourages 11 me is that you get the same kind of response from the City 12 that you've got. I don't have high hopes that things are 13 going to be different in the future. But you still have to 14 try. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it would seem that if it were 17 merely a draft sent for staffing, maybe it would be 18 appropriate for us to formalize that resolution with specific 19 representatives on it and send it on over, to see what their 20 response is to the resolution as officially adopted by this 21 Court. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree with you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's that -- what did you 12-27-06 70 1 just say, Judge? We want -- we're adopting the resolution as 2 written? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or as we recommended? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or modified to -- with 6 -- as you indicate, if they want to eliminate the City Manager 7 and representatives of the City Council. But, here again, 8 like Commissioner Williams and I talked earlier, and as he 9 indicated just a moment ago, those are the folks that are 10 going to actually have to put plan into effect and pay the 11 bill, and I think -- I think they're essential to the whole 12 process. You know, I don't want to be presumptuous and 13 eliminate them from the process. If we're going to include 14 ourselves, I think, necessarily, it makes sense that they're 15 going to be included. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge? My input, I think you 17 have to have City or Commissioners and Auditor, because there 18 is a -- a pretty large expense on this. Now, did the City 19 actually -- City Council actually say that they did not want 20 to see that? Or just was that the Chief's comments in the 21 paper? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a letter. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a letter from the City 25 indicating the Council suggested that the makeup of the 12-27-06 71 1 committee be reduced by those four classes of representatives; 2 the City Manager, City Council, Commissioners Court, and 3 County Auditor, eliminating them from the committee. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because of the -- the salaries 5 and benefit differences, building expenses, all that that 6 could very well come out of it, the committee's not going to 7 do much good without some representation on financial impact 8 that it's going to have. Otherwise, myself and the Chief, 9 Fire Chief can all sit around and talk about it all day long, 10 but without getting down to the dollars and cents and people 11 being on that committee that can have an input into how it 12 would be financed, I don't see it ever going anywhere anyhow. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the whole purpose 14 of including them. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And you've got the political aspect, 17 that both entities have to be invested into it politically 18 also. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can show real quick where, 20 organizational-wise -- and Commissioner Williams has even 21 listened to some of our 911 tapes in the past, where victims 22 wouldn't have to duplicate what they're telling the dispatcher 23 and things like that. I can show that part. But the expense 24 part, you know, is something that we need somebody that knows 25 exactly what all the benefits are, and salaries and building 12-27-06 72 1 costs and things like that, to be able to get into it. I 2 think you need that. And I would also agree that I think 3 Commissioner Oehler would be a very good rep on this. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, looking back at their 5 letter versus our resolution, the two -- up here on 7, the 6 City's letter recommends that we add the Kerrville Police 7 Department Dispatch representative, or -- and the Sheriff's 8 Department Dispatch head, so there were two different people 9 that they're adding those two, and they're basically deleting 10 two. So, they're really not decreasing the size of the 11 committee; they're just changing the committee. You know, and 12 I think we do definitely need to have the Auditor and a 13 Commissioner on there. If they don't want to have a City 14 Councilman on there, that's fine. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me propose maybe a 16 little modification to the language and see where this takes 17 us. As opposed to identifying City Manager, County Auditor, 18 representative of Kerr County Commissioners Court, City 19 Council, maybe we can simplify it a little bit by -- by saying 20 a representative of City staff. That would then be at the 21 decision of the -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Manager. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- City Manager. County 24 Auditor, staff, and ex-officio members of Kerr County 25 Commissioners Court and Kerrville City Council. 12-27-06 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem, but you need 2 to add, to get in line with what they're doing, the 3 representative from K.P.D. Dispatch and -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. I wasn't planning 5 to take those out. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we don't have those in. 7 I'm saying we don't have -- we didn't include K.P.D. Dispatch 8 and Kerr County Dispatch. We said Sheriff and Police Chief, 9 thinking that that would include those two, but they didn't 10 look at it that way. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still think -- wouldn't 12 you, being the representative on the committee -- you would 13 represent that Dispatch person, would you not? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think -- I think the 15 Chief and I need to be on the committee. But I can understand 16 where the City's coming from with the representative like 17 their Dispatch Coordinator and my Dispatch Coordinator, 18 because of the technology differences and things like that, 19 that would have to be able to work together, that those people 20 would have more of a knowledge of -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree with that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Dispatch representative -- City of 24 Kerrville Dispatch representative and Kerr County Dispatch 25 representative, okay. 12-27-06 74 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, I don't know if I agree 2 with you that -- that the elected official would be just in an 3 advisory role. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's something for us 5 to talk about, you know. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm talking about it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you're talking. I'm 8 talking about the rest of us. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster? On the two Dispatch 11 people, they could be brought in just as advisers. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll talk later. Go ahead. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The two Dispatch people could 14 be brought in as advisers over technology differences. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the only way I can see 16 it. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Instead of them being actually 18 a part of the committee. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Be a resource to that committee. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And that certainly, you know, would 22 seem to be appropriate. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And, see, I see the 24 Commissioner being more than that, being a part of and in 25 every discussion and every decision, being a part of that. 12-27-06 75 1 More than being just an adviser. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the difference is -- 3 it goes back to what I said, is that we are much more involved 4 in day-to-day operations, and there's absolutely no point for 5 this committee to go in a direction that this Court obviously 6 isn't going to support. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, and I think that City 9 staff is much more inclined to -- I mean, they're going to do 10 a lot of what we do. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if they choose to do it 12 that way, that's fine. We just know that we want to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the resolution as drafted, 15 the inclusion of the people that it has, is appropriate, with 16 one possible modification; that we allow the City Manager to 17 designate his representative. So, it would just be City 18 Manager or his designated representative. But other than 19 that, I think it includes who needs to be there on the 20 committee. Now, resources, you can gather all of those that 21 you want. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, at any time. You 23 don't -- they don't have to be named here. Like, the County 24 Attorney is an example. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we're doing on the 12-27-06 76 1 other -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. On our economic development 3 strategy committee, we probably got as many resources to the 4 committee as we do committee members. But those, we can bring 5 in and out as we need them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we adopt 7 the draft resolution with the modification that after the word 8 "City Manager" in the second Resolved, we add "or designee." 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Any 11 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I will 17 forward it to the Manager and Council. Let's take about a 18 15-minute recess. 19 (Recess taken from 10:34 a.m. to 10:57 a.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 22 might. We were in recess. We'll consider Item 15; consider, 23 discuss, and set a public hearing on a petition to amend or 24 abandon an easement along the south side of Lake Ingram in 25 Precinct 4 as described in Volume 2, Page 442 of the Land 12-27-06 77 1 Records of Kerr County. Commissioner Nicholson? 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to make a motion 3 that we set a public hearing on a petition to amend or abandon 4 an easement along the south side of Lake Ingram in Precinct 4, 5 described in part in Volume 2, Page 442 of the Land Records in 6 Kerr County. And can we set that hearing for January 22nd at 7 10:30 a.m.? Am I right that January 22nd is our second 8 meeting in -- 9 THE CLERK: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I've got more comments 11 to make. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we have a motion to set a 13 public hearing. Do I hear a second? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I'm hesitant 15 about this issue, because I don't know everything I probably 16 need to know. I need to know things like -- and that's a 17 beautiful picture. Have y'all seen this? We just got it, and 18 I hadn't seen that before. But the tract of land actually in 19 here, I hadn't been able to take a look at it. I want to 20 know, who all does this affect? How many people it affects, 21 how does it affect them, et cetera, et cetera, before I -- 22 before I am willing to go anywhere with it. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, let's talk about it 24 some more. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12-27-06 78 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. The motion we have is 2 to set a public hearing, and that's the only thing that's 3 included in the motion is to set a public hearing on this 4 matter, as set forth in the agenda item for January 22nd, 5 2007, for 10:30 a.m. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll second so we can -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The motion so we can discuss it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Questions or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What we have here is that 11 some 50 years ago, Kerr County gained an easement along the 12 south side of Lake Ingram, a 20-foot easement from the dam to 13 somewhere in the area of the Hawkins property, which would be 14 also known as Camp Sierra Vista, and what's the other one? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rio. 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rio Vista. I'm not -- I'm 17 not too sure how far upstream it runs. The easement was for 18 County maintenance of Lake Ingram, and it included language 19 that says an additional easement for public ingress and egress 20 for all lawful purposes. Now, what's at issue here is whether 21 or not the easement grants the public unlimited access to this 22 20-foot easement for all lawful purposes, or whether it's 23 intended to be simply a maintenance easement. The County 24 Attorney, of course, will speak for himself, but I think it's 25 his opinion that the language of the easement does give the 12-27-06 79 1 public right of access and egress to that 20-foot easement. 2 It -- it's further complicated by the fact that it 3 acknowledges that the landowners along that stretch have the 4 -- have the right to construct a fence across that easement, 5 so I'm not sure what the -- what impact that has or what 6 implications it has on whether or not the intent was to open 7 that boundary -- that side of the lake up to the public. 8 There -- I don't -- I've got an envelope full of 9 petitions, Commissioner, signed by some of the landowners 10 there, and I don't know exactly how many pieces of property 11 they own. This property is pretty valuable property. It's 12 been subdivided a number of times, as you would expect, over 13 the last 50 years. But the essence of the issue here is that 14 we have some residents who would like for us to find that the 15 public does not have access to this 20-foot easement. We have 16 others who would like for us to find that it -- it's more or 17 less a county park; that there's unlimited access for any 18 lawful purposes. It's pretty complex. I can't tell you that 19 I have an opinion or a solution to it. I told Commissioner 20 Eggar that this was going to take the wisdom of Solomon. I 21 think that's pretty close to right. I think it's an issue 22 that does deserve a public hearing without prejudicing the 23 decision that might be made by this Court on the issue. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, does -- and I may 25 be way off base, but doesn't the State already grant access? 12-27-06 80 1 I mean, we can't take anything to allow people access to the 2 river, on the shores? I mean, people could walk along there 3 whether or not we have this or not. 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Again, I'm going to have to 5 ultimately defer to the experts, but I've studied that issue 6 and there's some -- generally -- generally, along a river, the 7 public has very limited access, and only from the river. I 8 happen to live on the river, so I have a little bit of 9 interest in this and have studied it some. For example, if 10 you're canoeing on the North Fork in the vicinity of my back 11 yard, you have a right of portage. You can get off of the 12 river only for the limited purpose of moving your boat on down 13 the river. Doesn't give you a right, in my opinion, to stop 14 and camp there or picnic there, or -- so this is different 15 than that. If -- if this easement intended to grant the 16 public ingress and access -- ingress and egress for all lawful 17 purposes, then that's above and beyond what the state law 18 allows. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can tell you that over 21 the years, I have observed and I have received complaints from 22 property owners along that stretch of the river about what 23 they call trespassers, or rowdy trespassers. I think the 24 Sheriff's probably heard more about it than I have. They're 25 down there on that part of the river and engaging in 12-27-06 81 1 undesirable conduct and other disruptive behavior. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It says Contour Number 1690. I 3 presume that's elevation 1690? 4 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the elevation of that 6 lake when it's full? 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 1690 is approximately the 8 water's edge, normal level. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Normal level. So this is 20 10 foot above normal. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It appears to me that that instrument 12 actually grants two easements, the 20-foot easement south of 13 1690, then it states, "together with an additional easement 14 for public ingress and egress for all lawful purposes on, 15 over, and across our said land," that being the property. So, 16 it appears to me that it not only grants an easement to that 17 20 foot that's immediately south of contour 1690, but also 18 access to that particular easement property off what was the 19 Morehead property as of August 1955. So, I think we may have 20 more issues here than what we originally thought we had. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, where are you reading 22 that? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Right in the middle of the -- of the 24 instrument itself. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Now, that -- Judge, of 12-27-06 82 1 course, it does need further study, but that could be peculiar 2 to this particular piece of property. That language may not 3 be peculiar to all pieces of property. I would be very 4 surprised that Kerr County sought an easement that allowed 5 ingress/egress over all of those properties that went down the 6 river, but that could be true. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there is a grant from the 8 then-owner -- presumably the then-owner of the property. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That single property. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Morehead. 11 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever -- whatever Ms. Morehead 13 owned at that time, in August of 1955. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And this -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: To have access to that 20-foot -- 16 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- easement adjacent to the river, in 18 a public road across her property, and -- and that one is not 19 defined. 20 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is an example of the 21 easements. Presumably, you'd have to look at a number of -- 22 more of these, but I don't think Mrs. Morehead owned all of 23 the property from the dam to the Hawkins property. But she 24 may have; I don't know. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know. I don't know what -- 12-27-06 83 1 what the state of the title was back in August of 1955. But 2 it talks about easement for public ingress and egress, and I 3 think that's telling, in and of itself. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, I don't -- I mean, I 5 guess I don't mind having a public hearing on it. I don't -- 6 I'm not sure I want -- if you want to hear the opinions of 7 everybody, fine, but from there, I don't really know where we 8 go, and I don't think I have near enough information. Public 9 land. The County Attorney's office, I suspect, will need some 10 advice on it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's going to have some fun 12 with that. I've been furnished with three participation forms 13 on this particular agenda item. I think my question at this 14 time is, since the only thing before the Court at this point 15 in time is the setting of a public hearing, is it appropriate 16 for us to receive public comment at this time, or wait until 17 the public hearing? I certainly don't want to jeopardize 18 these people's right to be heard, but that's generally what 19 the purpose of the public hearing is for, is for the public to 20 make their thoughts known on it. I -- I apologize if any of 21 you came here today with -- with the thought in mind that 22 there was going to be formal action taken today, 'cause 23 obviously there's not. Before we can proceed forward and take 24 any formal action on that easement, we must have a public 25 hearing under the law, and that would seem to me to be the 12-27-06 84 1 appropriate time. But if the Court wants to -- 2 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- give these people an opportunity, 4 I'm certainly not -- not objecting to it. 5 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Their purpose may be to 6 influence the Court to hold or not hold a public hearing, so 7 it might be useful to hear what they have to say. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I want to start my 11 decision-making process, and can't do that without input. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Carl Mertz? 13 MR. MERTZ: My name is Carl Mertz. I live at 1050 14 Freedom Trail in Kerrville, 78028. I have known Mr. Cobb 15 since 1983, and I personally know that they have used this 16 easement for four generations. They don't have loud, rowdy 17 parties. It's a family-oriented activity. We fish, swim, 18 and/or just sit around and talk and enjoy the -- the shade of 19 the cypress trees and enjoy each other. There's no 20 drunkenness or disorderly conduct that I have observed ever. 21 It's definitely a family-oriented activity. Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Bob Davis? 24 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. Bob Davis. I live at 386 25 Cade Loop, just -- the property that was granted this 12-27-06 85 1 easement. And I bought the property with the understanding 2 that I would have access to the river, and I believe that's a 3 significant part of the value of my property there. It's -- 4 first, having a public hearing, I'm afraid that what that's 5 going to do is open up to the public an awareness that there's 6 this easement that they can use to get to the river, and we're 7 going to suddenly see an enormous amount of traffic increase 8 on -- on Cade Loop. I would prefer that the petitioner, 9 Mr. Isom, make some negotiated private agreement with those of 10 us who purchased property along this instrument, rather than 11 exposing it to the public. Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, you know, if it says 13 "easement for public ingress and egress" -- if it's public, 14 it's public. 15 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. And to-date, it's really kind 16 of private, because nobody really knows about it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 MR. DAVIS: Except the -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: However, it's still public. 20 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, we found a place to go 22 picnic. We can have a county picnic down there. 23 MR. DAVIS: Yeah. We'll look forward to seeing you 24 there, Buster. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. (Laughter.) 12-27-06 86 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess your message to Mr. Isom is, 2 if he wanted this to remain a private thing, he may be going 3 the wrong direction by opening it up? 4 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty smart. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Jerome C. Cobb? 7 MR. COBB: Hi. My name is Jerome C. Cobb. I live 8 at 389 Cade Loop Road. I'm a nurse at La Hacienda. This is 9 probably going to be one of the few times that a citizen comes 10 in and asks to you do nothing and spend no money. (Laughter.) 11 So, what I'm asking you to do is do nothing and spend no 12 money. You've got some paperwork in front of you there. The 13 best part of that paperwork is the picture on the back, okay? 14 Which talks about the Morehead property. Well, that's 15 Ms. Morehead, okay? Ms. Morehead is standing on the riverbank 16 with my dad, my mom, some real good friends, and they're out 17 enjoying the public waterfront that we're talking about. My 18 family has used that public easement for generations, like 19 Carl said. And the -- the effect of abandoning that public 20 easement would be to make it probable that I cannot use it, or 21 my family could not use it in the future. There is an 22 easement granted to all residents for Rio Vista Addition. It 23 goes from the county road all the way down to the waterfront. 24 From that easement down the east side of the Rio Vista 25 Addition, you can get to the public easement that runs 20 feet 12-27-06 87 1 along the waterfront for about 275 feet across Mr. Isom's 2 property, and any person that owns property in the Rio Vista 3 Addition has the right to use that. Additionally, there's 4 property to the south of the Rio Vista Addition that has the 5 right to use the easement that gets down to that public 6 waterfront. The effect of extinguishing that easement would 7 be to prevent anyone that owns that property from using that 8 waterfront. Now, historically, Roberta Morehead was a 9 spinster, a very devout Catholic lady. She was a very 10 generous person. She and my mom and dad became good friends, 11 and she gave my folks about an acre of land. She gave my 12 folks the right of ingress and egress to the Guadalupe River. 13 It wasn't a specific point; it was a broad, general access 14 when she gave that. That ingress and egress got to the public 15 easement for 20 feet along the waterfront. We have used that 16 20 feet along the waterfront, and I personally have maintained 17 it for -- since '89. Before that, my father maintained it. 18 It was owned by other people. They were absentee because of 19 family problems, and with their permission, we crossed it, we 20 used it. And about a year ago, Mr. Isom moved in from San 21 Angelo. He sought to restrict our access to it. We went to 22 court and we got a settlement about access to it. And 23 abandoning that easement would kind of impair our settlement, 24 and I would prefer that you do nothing and spend no money. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you a question, 12-27-06 88 1 if I might, Mr. Cobb, just for clarity. You're, I think, 2 correctly seeing that what's at issue here is two different 3 kinds of easements. One is an easement that allows you to get 4 down to the waterfront. 5 MR. COBB: That's really not a question here. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So you're speaking about 7 the 20 foot along the waterfront easement, and you're 8 encouraging this Court not to tinker with that? 9 MR. COBB: In 1955, the citizens of Kerr County 10 entered into an agreement with the landowners along the river, 11 okay? And, essentially, the agreement was if you'll give us 12 an easement, we'll build you a lake. All right. And the 13 citizens of Kerr County paid for the lake, and the landowners 14 along it got the benefit of having a lake, and in return for 15 that, they gave an easement. All right. The request here is 16 now to kind of breech that agreement and abandon that 17 easement, that, you know, Kerr County had -- the citizens of 18 Kerr County had paid for, and I ask you not to do that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Cobb, do you -- is it 20 your opinion that that 20-foot easement goes around the 21 entirety of the Ingram Lake? 22 MR. COBB: Sir, I don't know. That's the literal 23 truth. I can only speak to the easement that Roberta gave, 24 and I know that she let people use it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it does. 12-27-06 89 1 MR. COBB: I don't know. I know that the 1690 2 contour is shown on a plat, and it goes up almost to the -- 3 the slab at Rio Vista, but it doesn't get there. And the 1690 4 is the top of the dam. That's the level of the top of the 5 dam. And I've seen survey markers that show the 1690 curve 6 being right at lake level now. There was an easement granted 7 from the river south to the 1690 contour. This was before the 8 lake was made. That easement gave the County the right to 9 flood that land to the 1690 contour. Then an additional 10 easement of 20 feet along the 1690 contour, which is the lake 11 -- you know, the water line, runs along the lake. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, sir. 13 MR. COBB: Can I answer any more questions? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Cobb. We appreciate 15 you being here. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any more? I'll 18 withdraw my second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Just a moment. We have some other 20 participants here. You wish to be heard, sir? 21 MR. ISOM: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward, give us your 23 name and address. 24 MR. ISOM: I'm Gary Isom, and I'm the owner of that 25 property that we were discussing today. 12-27-06 90 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, sir. 2 MR. ISOM: And that easement is specified from just 3 about the Rio Vista Crossing -- I don't know if y'all are 4 familiar with that -- all the way to the dam on the south 5 side. The 1690 is posted right now. I had it surveyed, and 6 it's about 3 feet up from the water's edge. This would 7 give -- if we don't do something about this, I mean, this was 8 going to give -- I could put a caterpillar in there today on 9 my property and walk it down through this 20 feet and push out 10 piers on everybody else's property, the way this is stated in 11 this. If we can't come to something here, please let us know 12 our rights down here. I mean, I don't know if -- I mean 13 people pull on my land with boats and they get out, they put 14 their coolers, they put their radios. And I can't even go 15 down there, and they're in my back yard; I can't even tell 16 them to turn it down or pick up their beer cans or whatever 17 they're doing. And I see this being a problem in the long 18 run. 19 And, like I say, it's going to be a big issue; it's 20 not going to be something we can just -- you know, just going 21 to say yes or no to. These people, the Cobbs, I have 22 personally told them they can come and go on our property 23 before it got -- like I said, the easements go right through 24 the Bell's place and on down to -- all the way down to the 25 dam, and I've researched that over here at the courthouse. 12-27-06 91 1 Has anybody got any questions? But I just wanted to say what 2 the actual deal is here. There's not -- it's not being heard. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question for you. 4 Let's gets back to this bulldozer thing. 5 MR. ISOM: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- now, what can you do? 7 MR. ISOM: If I -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can push people's boat 9 docks away? 10 MR. ISOM: If I unloaded a bulldozer on my property 11 today, there's a 20-foot easement. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 13 MR. ISOM: All the way to that lake dam. And with 14 this, I can go ingress and egress; I guess I could just take a 15 bulldozer and clear my 20-foot all the way to the dam. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't recommend that. 17 MR. ISOM: Well, I know that, but the way this is -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're saying. 19 MR. ISOM: And Commissioner Nicholson has said the 20 same thing. No, we don't recommend that, but someone could 21 actually do it with this easement. But -- but, please, like I 22 ask, please give us our -- tell us what our rights are down 23 there. If we can't settle this thing, you know, with a yes or 24 a no, I mean, could you give us some -- a liability release if 25 someone gets hurt, cuts theirself, or what -- do we need 12-27-06 92 1 restrooms down there? I mean, things that we need to do in 2 this, you know, aren't just as simple as we -- yes or no. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You seem to know that -- that 4 this easement runs from Rio Vista bridge all the way to Ingram 5 Dam. 6 MR. ISOM: It goes from my property -- I've 7 researched it -- all the way to the dam. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All the way to the dam, but 9 you don't know if it's on the highway side or -- 10 MR. ISOM: No, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't know? 12 MR. ISOM: No, sir. Commissioner Nicholson and I 13 just worked on that side. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I can't -- I can't 15 imagine us abandoning something unless we abandon the whole 16 thing. I mean -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I think that 18 the -- what I said previously a few moments ago, I withdraw my 19 second. And it's not really to say I'm not going to look at 20 this at all, but I do think that it's -- it's probably not the 21 appropriate time to do a public hearing on it. I think it 22 does draw a lot of attention to it, which is probably not a 23 good thing for any of the residents there. I probably would 24 like to let the County Attorney look at it a little bit and 25 get some input from him. Then we can look at it at our next 12-27-06 93 1 meeting or the one after that. I understand your frustrations 2 from having, you know, parties in your back yard that you have 3 no control over, and there's a liability that may or may 4 not -- those are some of the issues I'd like to talk to the 5 County Attorney on. 6 MR. ISOM: I've talked to the County Attorney about 7 it too, and we've discussed it a little bit. That's why we're 8 here. But, I mean, you know, we just want to know what we can 9 and can't do down there. I mean, can I put a patio down 10 there? Without -- I mean, and it be just a place for 11 everybody that stops their boats to come party. I mean, 12 there's -- what can we do with our property? We pay eight or 13 ten times the money that Kerr County land is bringing to live 14 on this river, and I know Mr. Nicholson's familiar with that. 15 And if it doesn't -- I mean, if we can't do anything with it, 16 maybe we can get our taxes adjusted. I don't know. I mean, 17 is there -- the issue can go on and on on this. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there -- and I'm not -- it's 19 not my part of the county; I'm not real familiar with it, 20 other than driving by on the road. I'm not familiar with your 21 side of the river, the lake. Are there multiple -- how many 22 property owners are on that side? 23 MR. ISOM: There's approximately -- I'm going to say 24 there's probably -- I have got about eight of them on that 25 side. 12-27-06 94 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About eight on the south side? 2 Do they have piers and other things -- 3 MR. ISOM: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- on there? 5 MR. ISOM: Yeah, most of them do. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're pretty much -- and 7 they -- because they own the property, they can do what they 8 want, so you can certainly build a pier if you want on the 9 property. You can put a fence up, from what it says. 10 MR. ISOM: Well, we've got that agreement with Mr. 11 Cobb. I didn't -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. 13 MR. ISOM: I didn't want to go, you know, that way. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. But, I mean, you 15 could put a fence and gate -- anyway, there's things that you 16 -- you obviously do control the property. 17 MR. ISOM: Mr. Cobb and Rio Vista has a 28-foot 18 strip -- 27.9 feet down my property to the river, and it's 19 been given to them from that deed. I went ahead and gave them 20 a turnaround where they can actually turn a car around, and 21 give them a 12-foot further easement to back a boat in. I 22 mean, it's not -- he's got access to the river. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MR. ISOM: I mean, I don't know what else they want. 25 But -- and if this deed states something that's not -- you 12-27-06 95 1 know, that we need to know about, it should be in there. 2 Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner -- 4 MR. ISOM: Unless you have a question. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's some pretty 7 elaborate improvements on that 20 foot. Recently, a patio was 8 built by a home owner that cost tens of thousands of dollars, 9 and I guess that homeowner did that with foreknowledge that me 10 and Commissioner Baldwin can go out there and hold a barbecue 11 on that patio. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- not being an 13 attorney, I look at Rex -- I wouldn't think you can. I think 14 you own that patio, and people own the right to get on that 15 land, but that patio -- you own it. But I don't -- you 16 know -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get that patio off our 18 property, then. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't own -- but the County 20 doesn't own the property; the County owns -- there's an 21 easement for the public to use it. Not to use the -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the patio's impeding 23 us. 24 MR. ISOM: You can leave your boat there. Is the 25 public allowed to use your boat? Same thing. Anyway... In 12-27-06 96 1 that case -- can I say one more thing? In that case, could we 2 just cement the whole thing and then be private? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 4 MR. ISOM: I mean, that's not -- that's just... 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, you obviously 6 have had visits with the County Attorney about this issue. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, again, I think the 8 County Attorney's opinion is that specific language does give 9 access to the public. Whether or not that was the intent at 10 the time is in some doubt, but based on what some of the 11 people who've been out here forever are saying, that likely 12 was the intent. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner -- Commissioner 14 Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does your question, which I 17 think is a very interesting question, does it go back to the 18 time when Kerr County did some work out on Lake Ingram? 19 Which, if my memory serves me correctly, was on the north side 20 of the lake; we did some maintenance out there. 21 Commissioner-elect Oehler probably remembers that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He probably knows more than 23 he's leading us on to know. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When we drained the lake -- 12-27-06 97 1 and I don't remember how long ago -- 15 years ago, and we 2 drained it for maintenance purposes, we did get down in 3 that -- in that dry lake and do a lot of maintenance, took a 4 whole lot of materials out, and I think Mr. Odom told me we 5 did it from the north side, the highway side. It doesn't mean 6 we might in the future not have a need to do it from the south 7 side. I don't know. But I think that's our interest, I 8 think, in the easement, is in case we need it for maintenance. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I would think, but it -- 10 times have changed greatly. But, you know, from what it says 11 in the document, and some of the local residents say it's 12 probably the intent of Ms. Morehead to give the public the 13 right to use the land, because it was a County-built lake. 14 But, you know, Ms. Morehead probably never envisioned the 15 population we have now, either. So -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Interesting questions. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You withdraw your second? 19 THE CLERK: I have a motion. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You still have a motion? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll withdraw my motion. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion is withdrawn. Any further 23 action by any member of the Court on this issue? 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The fact -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time. 12-27-06 98 1 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The fact that we're not 2 going to have a public hearing on the matter somehow doesn't 3 tell me that you've heard the last of this. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And I suppose you're not going to 5 stick around to hear it, either. (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: See this? It's addressed 7 to Dave Nicholson; it's crossed through and it says 8 Commissioner Oehler. I -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes sense. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, let's move to Item 17, if we 11 might. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just let me make one more 13 comment. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think this is an 16 interesting deal, and I think there is more to it. I remember 17 Commissioner Griffin bringing a similar issue with -- in that 18 same area to this Court, and I remember him saying that that 19 easement is all the way around the entire -- including that 20 area down by the dam and the store, those boat docks and all 21 that is really public property all the way -- all the way 22 around that lake. 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As an easement. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Easement. I'm sorry, an 25 easement. And I just -- I find -- I'm interested in that, and 12-27-06 99 1 I think we ought to get to the bottom of it, because it's 2 become a private property issue. 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, very much so. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we need to get to the 5 bottom of it and make some decisions. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Anytime you deal with 7 private property issues, you're dealing with very emotional 8 situations. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. So, I agree, I 10 don't think it's over either. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the County Attorney have 12 any comment? 13 MR. EMERSON: Well, really a request. If anybody 14 has any documents, please forward them to me. And, further, 15 my limited comment, based on the information I have, is that 16 each of those properties were purchased with that easement in 17 their deed records, so theoretically, the property owners 18 should have had full knowledge of the easements that were 19 there, and it's really going to be a policy issue for y'all. 20 So, I'll do the research, but Merry Christmas; it's going to 21 be your decision. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Somehow I knew the answer. Anything 23 else? Let's move -- 24 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank all of you for your 25 input and comments. 12-27-06 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 17; consider, 2 discuss, and take appropriate action to approve the 3 appointment of deputies of the Tax Assessor/Collector's 4 office. Ms. Bolin? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You skipped 16. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I know I did. 7 MS. BOLIN: In light of the fact that I was on the 8 November ballot, I have to go through this swearing in again 9 on January 1st. And this is a list of my current employees 10 and their current salaries. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's as per the position schedule 12 that the Court adopted? 13 MS. BOLIN: The last one that I received, yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 18; consider, 24 discuss, and take appropriate actions to approve the bonds as 25 required by Tax Code Section 6.28(a) and Texas Local 12-27-06 101 1 Government Code Section 88.01 for the Tax Assessor/Collector 2 and deputies. 3 MS. BOLIN: This is -- I did not know that 4 Ms. Pieper was going to put this on the agenda, so mine goes 5 under hers. She's got all the bonds listed in Item 19. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The reason I called that one was 8 because of the deputies. 9 MS. BOLIN: Okay. The second bond that I gave you 10 is -- it's the real thick one; it's the one that -- the one 11 Commissioner Letz has. Yes, sir, that's the one for my 12 employees, and it is required and it's statutorily set out, my 13 amounts. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to approve both? 16 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think we do, because you got 18 the deputies covered under 18 and the official -- public 19 official's bonds are covered under 16 and 19, so I think we 20 need to. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to approve the 22 agenda item. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 25 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 12-27-06 102 1 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let me call 6 16 and 19 together. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 7 action to approve official bonds of elected officials; and 8 then 19, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 9 approve the official public bonds for Pat Tinley, County 10 Judge; Spencer W. Brown, County Court at Law Judge; Linda 11 Uecker, District Clerk; Jannett Pieper, County Clerk; Barbara 12 Nemec, County Treasurer; William H. Williams, Commissioner 13 Precinct 2; Diane Bolin, County Tax Assessor/Collector; Bruce 14 Oehler, Commissioner Precinct 4; Vance Elliott, Justice of the 15 Peace Precinct 1; Dawn Wright, Justice of the Peace Precinct 16 2; Kathy Mitchell, Justice of the Peace Precinct 3; William 17 Ragsdale, Justice of the Peace Precinct 4; Lee C. Voelkel, 18 County Surveyor. 19 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Any question or discussion on the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have all these bonds in 24 place? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: This one just came in. 12-27-06 103 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have them all? 2 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 4 the motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was there a second? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I seconded. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Any member of the 16 Court have anything to discuss in executive or closed session? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've been getting some 18 letters back and forth on the insurance issue. Do we need to 19 talk about that? Nevermind. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else that we may have 21 for executive or closed session? If not, let's move on down 22 to the approval agenda. Do we have the Auditor with us? 23 Somebody go scout up the Auditor. Thank you, Ms. Hyde. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looking through the bills, 25 it's obviously that time of the month for Windstream to -- and 12-27-06 104 1 that made me -- made me wonder where the -- where Rusty's 2 phone system and everything is. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- remember, last -- the 4 Commissioners Court approved it with some wordage, and then 5 they gave the County Judge authority to sign it once that 6 was -- so I gave it back to Curtis. It had to be sent up to 7 Dallas or wherever their corporate... We got it back a week 8 and a half ago, something like that, same day as the jail 9 inspection. Got it back, the County Judge signed it. Rex 10 also approved that the changes were done correctly, and now 11 I'm waiting on the equipment to come in. Contract's been 12 signed. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, just any day now we're 14 going to get -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Once we're through the 16 holidays, we'll be up and going. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then I'll have to add a few 19 additional lines themselves to that equipment, but it'll be 20 all right. We'll move it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anyone have any questions on 22 any of the bills? We have a motion? 23 THE CLERK: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had -- had one this 12-27-06 105 1 morning. I went -- on Page 25, under Whelan Plumbing, jail 2 repairs -- water heater repairs, $1,400. And I think you can 3 buy some brand-new for that kind of money instead of repairing 4 them, but -- so I went and talked to Tim, and he told me that 5 there was this big elaborate hole that had to be knocked in 6 the wall and lots of copper stuff replaced and all that, and 7 that made me start thinking. Is our jail falling apart, 8 Rusty? Or where are we? Are we going to need to start 9 thinking about replacing air-conditioners and -- and water 10 heaters and -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This was an insurance issue. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This issue you're talking 13 about, we -- we don't have water heaters. We have boilers. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it just triggered my 15 thinking. I've got this one cleared up in my mind. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that one, the State came in 17 and changed their requirements. Last year it got approved, 18 and it has to be inspected before every jail inspection. Got 19 approved fine last year; this year they claim there had to be 20 some new types of valves that had to be installed, because the 21 state requirements changed over the year, so that's what a lot 22 of that was. Back to your question, though, your main 23 question about -- no, the jail is not falling apart. The 24 problem we have is that jail is now -- '95 -- about 12 years 25 old. We're going on the 12th year, okay? We have over 20 -- 12-27-06 106 1 MR. EMERSON: The problem you have is, you're 2 outside of the agenda item with no agenda item. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, you're talking about -- 4 MR. EMERSON: You're not talking about bills, about 5 paying for the facility. You're talking about a water heater. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks, Sheriff. Appreciate 7 it. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get ready. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Sit down. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. See, that answered it. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get ready. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That answered it, thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, Commissioner Baldwin, 14 just for your information, this is a -- I've asked Tim, in my 15 other conversations with him, and I think I asked Alyce too, 16 we want long-range what they're looking at in their 17 department. We asked them here in court a couple times, and 18 this is one of the reasons, because I know that there are 19 issues at the jail. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be careful what you say; you 21 may get outside of the agenda item. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex will slam you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just talking -- I'm on the 25 Commissioners' Comment section right now. 12-27-06 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're already on Item 5? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster asked me under the 4 public comment section. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, y'all are in for it now. 6 Okay, that was the only question I had. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second to pay the 10 bills. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 16 amendments. Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Budget Amendment 1 is for the County 18 Auditor's office, to transfer $45 from Conferences to Books, 19 Publications, and Dues. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12-27-06 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 4 Request Number 2. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Two is to recognize $449.88 under 6 insurance proceeds. 7 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: For the Sheriff's -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 17 Request 3. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is to recognize 2,461.69 19 from Texas Association of Counties for damage to their 20 telephone system at the Sheriff's Office. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, their telephone system -- 23 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was that lightning strike. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. Any 12-27-06 109 1 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 2 by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 7 Request 4. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 4 is for the Juvenile 9 Detention Facility, a request from the director to transfer 10 187.11 from Kitchen Supplies to Miscellaneous. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 20 Request 5. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is for Nondepartmental, to 22 transfer $177.50 from Liability Insurance line item to Bonds. 23 I have with it a late bill payable to Lee Voelkel for the 24 177.50 to reimburse him for his bond. 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Move to approve. 12-27-06 110 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 3 and issuance of a hand check to Lee Voelkel, reimbursement for 4 177.50. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 10 Request 6. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Six is for the 216th District Court, 12 to transfer 8,839.72 from Court-Appointed Attorney line item 13 to Court-Appointed Services. It's for the Seard case. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Seard. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Any question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I've got a question. 21 Tommy, in the bills, wherever 216th is -- hold on -- in the 22 regular bills that we just approved, there is a lot of -- 23 well, not a lot, but some Seard stuff. There's a couple of 24 psychiatrists, a couple of medical doctors, seems like. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what this is for. 12-27-06 111 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this is exactly the same 2 thing? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: It's in addition to what you see 4 here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Bear in mind, we are not -- not 7 one-quarter of the way through the budget year, and 8 Court-Appointed Services is gone. We just added $9,000 to it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But you heard our -- 10 you heard our senator stand up there and say that that's okay, 11 that they're going to balance that budget and everything's 12 going to be just fine. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what he said. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I must have forgotten about that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- we should not be whining 17 about this. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 19 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Got some more? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. Okay, this is -- Number 7 is 12-27-06 112 1 for the Treasurer's bond. We need to increase the line item 2 for Bonds in the Treasurer's department by $1,320 -- excuse 3 me. I'm recommending that we transfer that from Liability 4 Insurance line item in Nondepartmental. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval. Any question or discussion? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, excuse me. I do have a -- I 10 need a hand check. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Payable to First Insurance Agency 13 for $1,420. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,320? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it 14 or -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: 1,420. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,420, oh. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This says 13. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the increase is 13. The 21 current expense is 14, but -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you already have 100. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 24 discussion? All in favor of the motion to approve Budget 25 Amendment Request Number 7 and issue a hand check to First 12-27-06 113 1 Insurance Agency for $1,420, signify by raising your right 2 hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any further 7 budget amendments? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills, other than mentioned? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two. They're both payable to 11 First Insurance Agency, and they're both for $925 for Diane 12 Bolin's surety bonds. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 17 of the late bills as indicated. Any question or discussion? 18 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I have been 24 presented with monthly reports from Justice of the Peace 25 Precinct 3, Justice of the Peace Precinct 4, District Clerk 12-27-06 114 1 for November '06 and amended November '06 report, Justice of 2 the Peace Precinct 1, and County Clerk, both general and trust 3 funds. Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as 4 presented? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 8 indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 9 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Reports from 14 Commissioners in their ordinary or liaison assignments. 15 Commissioner Baldwin, do you have anything for us? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Merry Christmas. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one quickie, Judge. 19 As a condition of the grant from the Texas Water Development 20 Board, at the midway point of the engineering -- preliminary 21 engineering effort, there's a requirement to have a public 22 meeting for purposes of taking input and advising the public 23 as to the breadth and scope of the proposed wastewater 24 collection system for the community of Center Point. That 25 meeting will be held on January 11 at 7 p.m. in Center Point 12-27-06 115 1 cafeteria. I'll be present. I hope Commissioner Letz can 2 make it. A representative of Water Development Board will 3 likewise be present, and the engineering group from Tetra Tech 4 will be present. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's January the 11th? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 7 p.m. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Center Point cafetorium? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. That has been 9 advertised once, will be advertised again, and we'll see if we 10 can convince the newspaper to develop a story as well. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we finally managed to keep one 12 of them here, didn't we? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be in touch. I know 14 their number. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two comments. I've already 19 forgot one of them, so that's already gone. (Laughter.) But 20 one comment is -- actually, it's from Karen, just a comment 21 that she noticed that it sure would be nice if the city of 22 Kerrville had Christmas decorations up on their streets as 23 Center Point and Comfort have. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Used to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment from my wife. 12-27-06 116 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She's right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- the other one just 3 went right out -- it left, so must not be that important. 4 That's it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Fredericksburg doesn't have an 6 attractive lend-lease program for Christmas decorations any 7 more? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. Don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get Paul Harvey to advertise 10 it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is good. That's a good 12 memory. That's been a while. So, the second one was probably 13 the courthouse really dresses up with Christmas lights, if 14 they would work. Is that the second? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were -- they were on again, 16 off again. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On again, off again. I 18 haven't seen them all on yet. Bet it's nice. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got some -- we've got some 20 significant electrical component issues we're going to be 21 addressing shortly. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting off base here. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I do have a picture for you 25 if you want, a digital night one. You asked me to procure it. 12-27-06 117 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of the courthouse? I'll take 2 it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I took it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Forgot the other one, 5 huh? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You tried to delay, but it's 7 gone. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One thing. At the 10 direction of the Court, I did Meet with TexDOT concerning our 11 request that they reconsider the construction of the bridges 12 in west Kerr County on Highways 39 and 1340. We were unable 13 to arrange a meeting -- I met with the district engineer; 14 unable to arrange a meeting before the end of the year at a 15 time that was convenient for the area engineer and 16 Commissioner Oehler, but the district engineer did promise 17 that he would arrange that meeting after the first of the 18 year. I think what I learned from that meeting is that the -- 19 is that TexDOT was going to very carefully consider our 20 request, and they were open to and would listen to the input 21 of all the citizens, and then they were going to go ahead 22 and -- and complete their projects as planned. So, I have -- 23 I have no hope that we'll get any help on Cade Loop, and I do 24 believe that they'll go ahead and construct these higher 25 bridges out on 39 and 1340. 12-27-06 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that a new epiphany, 2 Commissioner? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm a slow learner, 4 Commissioner. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, my hearing works 6 about the same way yours did in a discussion I had with TexDOT 7 representatives, and that's the same conclusion that I came to 8 after a pretty short discussion. 9 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you got for us? Let me 11 get to reports from elected officials, which would include the 12 Sheriff. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: He didn't stand up; the two-second 15 rule is invoked. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless he asks, I just... 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from department heads? 18 Any other reports? Commissioner Nicholson, if you don't take 19 anything else away from this four-year experience, would you 20 please take your nameplate there, with our gratitude? 21 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A part of that story is 22 that you're not going to have to pay for a new nameplate. 23 Commissioner Oehler brought his back. (Laughter.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you really? 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you. 12-27-06 119 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, you're going to be with 2 us January 1? 3 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, I am. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you will still be an 5 active, seated County Commissioner. 6 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Until Commissioner Oehler 7 rises. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we still have time to jab 9 you all we want. 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think you -- you know, 11 considering the library and Animal Control and TexDOT and a 12 few other things, I don't need any more help. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the time for 14 January 1, Judge? 15 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 10 o'clock. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I've heard. I thought 17 Commissioner Baldwin was the ringleader on that operation. He 18 was four years ago, I know that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 MR. EMERSON: Two years ago. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was? Well, actually, I 23 don't see any reason for us to even go to the thing. Our -- 24 the thing that we do as a Commissioners Court is approve the 25 bonds. The bonds have been approved, so we'll just stay at 12-27-06 120 1 home. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be there. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why is that? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I'll probably be there too. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you have to be sworn in. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have to raise our right 7 hand. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No reason for a meeting, is 9 there? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No reason to have a meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't it have to be 14 posted? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's always been part of 16 the -- of the -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hoopla. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the hoopla, is 19 Commissioners Court goes into session and approves the bonds, 20 and higher powers than me have decided that we don't do it 21 that way. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, isn't it a posted 23 meeting? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For what reason? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm getting nods of yes. 12-27-06 121 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For what reason? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we're all gathering 3 together in the same room, I guess. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but only if -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not conducting 6 business. 7 MS. UECKER: Why do we have to do that, anyway? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. Tell us. 9 MS. UECKER: You don't. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't. 11 MS. UECKER: I don't plan on being here, because I'm 12 still the District Clerk until the new one's sworn in. So I 13 can be sworn in on the 2nd. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. That is 15 correct. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, from the posting standpoint, I 17 would rather post a meeting that didn't need to be posted than 18 not post a meeting that did need to be posted. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keep him off your back, in 20 other words. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's just conservative 22 judgment. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good approach. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It's my intention to post that the 25 Commissioners Court will be meeting on that day, if for no 12-27-06 122 1 other reason to swear in the elected officials who take office 2 effective January 1, 2007. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good move, Judge. 4 MS. PIEPER: At what time? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 a.m. 6 MS. BOLIN: Where? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless some of you would like it at 8 7:00. 9 AUDIENCE: No. 10 MS. BOLIN: Or 12:01 a.m.? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody show up in a good frame of 13 mind at 12:01. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Straight from Frank's Lounge. 15 MS. UECKER: Unless you can have it down at the bar. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? We'll stand 17 adjourned. 18 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:55 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-27-06 123 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of 9 January, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-27-06