1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, February 26, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 26, 2007 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 4 final public hearing for ORCA Contract #781257 -- 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for Revision of plat for Falling Water, Lots 130, 6 130A & 127R; set public hearing for same 8 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contracts with Kerr County Soil & Water 8 Conservation District and Castle Lake Volunteer Fire Department; allow County Judge to sign same 9 9 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 authorize County Judge to file a claim on official bond of Kerr County Treasurer for penalty, interest 11 and related cost incurred and/or paid by County 10 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on IRS penalty of $12,357.72 imposed on Kerr County for 13 tax period ending March 31, 2006 15 14 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize audit, in whole or in part, of affairs, 15 activities, and/or transactions by or with the Kerr County Treasurer's Office 19 16 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 17 Resolution in support of Former Texas Rangers Foundation History and Education Center 29 18 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 19 declare as surplus one office desk and desk chair, 3 plastic side chairs, and one unused computer 20 with peripherals, and donate same to the Center Point Area Historical Preservation Association 38 21 1.9 Receive and discuss report on visit and inspection 22 of Kerr County Juvenile Detention Center (large building) by Texas Youth Commission executives on 23 February 15, 2007 41 24 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to auth- orize use of Flat Rock Lake Park on April 7, 2007 25 for Kerrville Chili & BBQ Classic & Easter-fest 47 3 1 I N D E X February 26, 2007 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 set final public hearing for Phases II and III of Kerrville South Wastewater Project, Contracts 4 #722411, 723095, and 724441; and 2002 Flood Disaster Relief Contract #718257 51 5 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 receive and approve 2006 Racial Profiling Report from Precinct 2 Constable Joel Ayala 53 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve revised proposal on inspecting Flat Rock Lake Dam and Ingram Dam 53 9 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 10 request from Collin County to join or otherwise assist Collin County and others to resist negative 11 effect of indigent health care program legislation 63 12 1.15 Discuss/consider, take appropriate action on copier lease contract for County Attorney's office 64 13 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to enter 14 into agreements with the City of Kerrville and Kendall County whereby Kendall County will be 15 responsible for EMS service, both emergency and transport, for Kerr County residents that live in 16 Falling Water and The Reserve Subdivisions 66 17 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on policy change regarding "all new hires will be required to 18 have their paychecks directly deposited to a check- ing and/or savings account" as of March 1, 2007 77 19 1.17 Review/discuss, take appropriate action of 20 Educational/Certification salary increase of Road and Bridge Administrator (Executive Session) -- 21 4.1 Pay Bills 88 22 4.2 Budget Amendments 90 4.3 Late Bills 93 23 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 94 24 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 94 25 --- Adjourned 107 4 1 On Monday, February 26, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this meeting of the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court regularly scheduled for this date, Monday, 9 February 26th, 2007, at 9 a.m. It's that time now, so let's 10 get started. Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 12 join me for a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of 13 allegiance to our flag? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be 17 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is 18 your time to be heard. If you wish to be heard on an agenda 19 item, we would ask that you fill out a participation form. 20 They're located at the back of the room, and we'd ask that you 21 fill that out. It's not absolutely essential that you do 22 that, but it helps me in trying to be sure that I don't miss 23 you when we get to that item. Should we come to an agenda 24 item that you wish to be heard on, and you've not filed a 25 participation form on that item, just get my attention in some 2-26-07 5 1 way, shape, form, or fashion so that I can recognize you and 2 give you the opportunity to be heard on that item. But right 3 now, if there's anybody that wishes to be heard on any item 4 that is not a listed agenda item, please feel free to come 5 forward at this time. Seeing no one coming forward, we'll 6 move on. Commissioner Williams, what do you have for us this 7 morning? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I just realized, 9 Judge, I should have prayed for good weather in March coming 10 up for Commissioner Baldwin and the West Texas Judges and 11 Commissioners meeting coming here. He's sweating that one 12 out, so we should have been praying for good weather then. 13 But, secondly, I noted in the good daily newspaper this 14 morning that even though Commissioner Oehler and I suspended 15 the burn ban -- or put the burn ban back on, it wasn't 16 recorded as such in the newspapers, so I'm wondering how we 17 might facilitate that to get the word out to the public a 18 little better that the burn ban is no longer on, in a couple 19 of precincts at least. That's it, Judge. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the burn ban is on in 22 all precincts. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on in all precincts now. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the newspaper, it is. 2-26-07 6 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, there is a burn ban in 2 all precincts right now. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I realize, but the 4 suspension has been lifted in two of them. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. All four of them, it's 6 been lifted; there's no -- you cannot burn anywhere in Kerr 7 County at the moment. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad you pointed that 9 out, 'cause if you read the morning paper, you could burn 10 anywhere. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Unfortunately, the -- I 12 won't say unfortunately; we do want good weather when 13 Commissioner Baldwin has his conference here. It appears that 14 we're going to have bright, sunny weather for quite a while. 15 And most folks in west Texas, if the dust continues, will feel 16 right at home when they get here later in the month. It's 17 certainly dusty out right now. That's all I have. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All I really have to offer -- 20 I have lots of things I could talk about, but I probably don't 21 need to do that at the moment. But I am still working with 22 the committee on the Highway 39 and 1340 bridge projects, 23 working with TexDOT, trying to get some concessions on things 24 and designs and aesthetics, and that's going forward very 25 well. Have another meeting this week on that, and hopefully 2-26-07 7 1 get close to getting it finalized where TexDOT can move 2 forward and put the project -- I think they plan to go for 3 bids sometime in the summer and start the project in the fall. 4 That's the main thing in my area at the moment, so that's 5 about all I have. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just want to talk about the 8 burn ban. Just when you think that the good citizens of Kerr 9 County have been trained not to burn in 40 mile-an-hour winds, 10 they slip up somehow, and so government has to take control of 11 people's lives and private property and tell them not to burn 12 on their own property. It just absolutely amazes me. But the 13 burn ban is one of those things that I detest, because it's -- 14 government is telling people what to do. But, obviously, 15 there's some folks out there that don't use common sense or 16 don't think or whatever, so the burn ban is on indefinitely. 17 And, oh, football season's over, basketball season's over, and 18 now the -- the season is amongst us. Track and field is here, 19 and, of course, my little boy's gone, but Rex has a daughter 20 that is -- I doubt if she weighs 100 pounds; I don't know, but 21 she runs -- runs like the wind. She's really something to see 22 and something to watch. And she's assured me that on my 23 birthday, she will be at the state track meet in Austin, so 24 I'm getting a hotel room over there to go watch Rex's daughter 25 run. We're excited about that. He's going to Del Rio this 2-26-07 8 1 weekend to see a kid run for a minute and 20 seconds. Doesn't 2 make sense to me, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hope he's not late. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The County needs a 5 helicopter, Rex, for you and I. That's all, sir. Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's get on with the 7 agenda. The first item on the agenda, I'm advised by 8 Commissioner Williams, is duplicitous. It is incorporated in 9 Item Number 11 along with some other contracts, so we will 10 pass on consideration of Item 1 and take that up with Item 11. 11 That brings us to Item 2; to consider, discuss, and take 12 appropriate action for the revision of plat for Falling Water, 13 Lots 130, 130A and 127R, as recorded in Volume 6, Page 393 and 14 Volume 7, Page 29, and Volume 7, Page 260 of the Plat Records 15 of Kerr County, and set a public hearing for the same. 16 Mr. Odom? 17 MR. ODOM: Good morning. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 19 MR. ODOM: I would say that Del Rio was -- you're 20 going to see some fast -- some fast kids down there running 21 down at the other end. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. ODOM: What I've proposed before you is a 24 revision of this plat. These landowners are moving property 25 lines, and no new lots will be created. Therefore, and with 2-26-07 9 1 the attached -- attachments that we gave you, you can see that 2 that line's just being moved, so we suggest that the public 3 hearing be set for April the 9th, 2007, at 10 a.m. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Any 7 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of that 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 3, if we might. 15 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve the 16 contracts with Kerr County Soil and Water Conservation 17 District and the Castle Lake Volunteer Fire Department, and 18 allow the County Judge to sign same. I put this on the agenda 19 as these contracts are -- are really ready for action. I 20 believe the County Attorney has reviewed them, found them to 21 be in proper order, conforming to contracts which we've had in 22 the prior years. Isn't that correct, Mr. Emerson? 23 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 2-26-07 10 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 3 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 4 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 9 to Item 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 10 authorize County Judge to file a claim on official bond of 11 Kerr County Treasurer for penalty, interest, and related costs 12 incurred and/or paid by Kerr County resulting from late 13 payment of payroll taxes to I.R.S. due for quarter ending 14 June 30, 2006. As I'm sure the Court will recall, I had this 15 on the meeting of the last -- the agenda of the last regular 16 meeting, and at that time we were -- the County Attorney had 17 had some discussion with -- with the former Treasurer and/or 18 her lawyer. We wanted to be sure that there was not a desire 19 on the former Treasurer's behalf to go ahead and take care of 20 that individually before asserting a claim on the bond. And I 21 would note that we received -- or the County Attorney received 22 a letter from an attorney purporting to act on behalf of the 23 former County Treasurer declining to handle that matter 24 individually. That was my interpretation. Was that not yours 25 also, Mr. Emerson? 2-26-07 11 1 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir, that's what's in the letter. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 3 item. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 6 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion on the motion? 7 MR. TRIGO: I have a question on that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I still don't 9 understand how we can apply a penalty to a bond that is of 10 last year -- or a previous year. I don't know how that works. 11 Doesn't matter. I'm certainly in favor of doing this if we 12 can -- if we can do this kind of thing, definitely move 13 forward, but I'm still not sure how you do that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect we're going to find out. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm excited about it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before -- I have a question as 19 well. Later on in the agenda -- in fact, the next agenda 20 item -- is another similar issue, and there may be others, to 21 pay what appears to be penalties and things for the I.R.S. 22 that we're going to have to deal with. Is there any benefit 23 -- maybe the bonding company's the way to do it, or any way to 24 go appoint someone from the County or the bonding company, 25 whatever, to go to I.R.S. and figure out what the penalties 2-26-07 12 1 the County is facing in gross, and kind of a -- and I guess 2 meet with them to kind of figure out where we're going so we 3 don't have to deal with this same thing over and over again? 4 And I'd rather try to get them filed one time, and it depends 5 on the bonding company, against all of them. And I don't mind 6 doing them piecemeal, but it just seems that we're -- I don't 7 know where this is going to end, and it sure would be nice to 8 be able to say okay, the penalty and interest due to the late 9 filings is "X" dollars. And then we can go -- or appoint 10 someone on our behalf to go to I.R.S. or who -- bonding 11 company and say, "Okay, here's the situation. What can we 12 do?" 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The thing that would concern me about 14 that, Commissioner, is I think we have an obligation under the 15 terms of the bond and with any contractual arrangement to -- 16 to give notice at the earliest possible time that we think 17 there's even a potential claim, and to assert that claim at 18 the earliest possible time to avoid a possible contract 19 defense or policy defense of late notice. As I'm sure you're 20 aware, occasionally that happens with insurers of various 21 kinds. I -- I'm hopeful we won't -- we won't see many more of 22 these. We're dealing in 2006 now. The next agenda item, of 23 course, we're going back the other direction. That's not too 24 heartening, but it's my understanding from talking to 25 Ms. Williams that she has initiated discussions with the 2-26-07 13 1 Revenue Service to attempt to get some effective means of 2 communication with those people, and -- and to try and get 3 things squared away up to the point that -- that she took over 4 the duties of that office. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would it -- the current bond is 6 15,000, as I recall? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The bond -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the bond at the time? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that was in place in 2006 was 10 15,000, that's correct. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would it not make sense to 12 include the next two together to get over that 15,000 13 threshold with one court action? I mean, the next penalty is 14 12,000; this one was 12,000. If we put the two together, 15 we're at 24,000, in which case we can file one time with the 16 bonding company for the full amount of the bond. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a good point, but it's 18 not styled that way. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- won't permit it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But we could still do it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By delaying the -- filing 25 the claim. Right, Judge? 2-26-07 14 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we could do it if the 2 Judge would call the next item. I don't know why we couldn't 3 do it. It says, "Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 4 action." I mean, we could just ask the County Attorney for an 5 opinion. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this item, though, is 7 dealing with a specific time frame -- quarter, the end -- the 8 last quarter of June. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But the next one is how 10 to deal with the next penalty. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's pending. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And dealing with that next 13 penalty is filing the claim as well, in my opinion. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be your "appropriate 15 action," is what you're suggesting? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of appropriate action. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we just have one -- I mean, 18 is that -- Judge, can you call the next one? Is that 19 possible, so we can discuss the next agenda item? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me just ask the County Attorney 21 straight out. Item 5, the "appropriate action" aspect of 22 that, would that allow authorizing the filing of a claim on -- 23 on the bond as well? 24 MR. EMERSON: I would think so, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 2-26-07 15 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got a motion and a 3 second on -- 4 THE CLERK: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll withdraw that, if you 6 -- if we can incorporate the two. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you call Number 5 and put 9 it on -- put it on the table, I'll withdraw the motion so we 10 can incorporate the two together. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, very well. Let me go ahead and 12 call Item 5 also. 13 MR. TRIGO: I have a discussion on that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll get to you, sir. Just a moment, 15 please. In connection with Item 4, to consider, discuss, and 16 take appropriate action on I.R.S. penalty of $12,357.72 17 imposed on Kerr County for tax period ending March the 31st, 18 2006. We now have both Items 4 and 5 before us. Does any 19 member of the Court have anything to offer with both of those 20 items in combination? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question before I 22 offer the motion, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Revised motion. My question 25 would be, do we need to have much, if any, discussion with 2-26-07 16 1 respect to the penalty portion of Number 5? We haven't dealt 2 with that, and we see it there, but we haven't talked about 3 it. Is there anything we need to know before I offer a 4 motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we -- on 5, we -- I 6 would suspect we need to authorize payment of that, but I 7 think we can have one motion for the filing against the bond, 8 and see if there's some way a subsequent motion -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I can craft 10 it. On Items 4 and 5 before the Court, I would offer a motion 11 that we authorize the assertion of a claim on the bond of the 12 former County Treasurer for recovery of penalties paid or to 13 be paid for payroll -- late payroll tax filings from March 14 31st, 2006, and June 30, 2006, and authorize the County Judge 15 to assert that claim. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second, with an amendment 17 to it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Your amendment is? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Penalties and interest. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we'd take that 22 separate; that's a separate issue under the same one. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Filing the claim, 'cause we 25 don't -- we need to talk about the penalty. I deliberately 2-26-07 17 1 left it out, because we can offer a second motion -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- on the penalty portion. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand the reason 5 why you wouldn't file the claim against the penalty and 6 interest. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll include it. And pay 8 the penalty as determined, if this is the appropriate amount, 9 $12,357.72, as imposed by the I.R.S., authorize payment of. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Does your motion include authorizing 11 the payment by Kerr County of the 12,357.72 penalty, of which 12 we received notification for the period ending March 31, '06? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just put that in there, 14 yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And the filing of the claim on 16 the bond for that as well as the amount previously determined 17 and paid for the quarter ending June 30, '06? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 22 question or discussion on the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to take -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trigo, if you'd step forward, 25 please, and give us your name and address, and then tell us 2-26-07 18 1 what you have to say about these two items. 2 MR. TRIGO: My name's Steve Trigo. I reside at 165 3 Scenic Valley Road. The only thing I have to say is, the 4 claim here is on official bond of Kerr County Treasurer. 5 Didn't we just accept Ms. Nemec's resignation three weeks ago? 6 She is no longer the Kerr County Treasurer. Former Kerr 7 County Treasurer. So, I think this agenda is out of whack. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. County Attorney? 9 MR. EMERSON: My response, Judge, would be that the 10 agenda item is supposed to be worded generally such as the 11 general public can understand the nature of the business to be 12 discussed. And given the ongoing publicity and multiple 13 agenda items associated with this, I don't think there's any 14 confusion to the public. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And it would authorize -- 16 MR. EMERSON: And as far as I know, there's only one 17 bond that's ever been discussed in open court to consider. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. Is there 19 anything further, Mr. Trigo? 20 MR. TRIGO: That's what I just wanted to say. And 21 I'm -- but I think that the agenda is out of -- out of order, 22 really. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, if there needs to be 25 any clarification of my motion, I would make -- make the Court 2-26-07 19 1 aware that we can modify the motion to make it read "former 2 Treasurer" -- former County Treasurer. I think I said that, 3 but whatever. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Just to clarify. Any other question 5 or discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify by 6 raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 11 to Item 6, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take 12 appropriate action to authorize audit, in whole or in part, of 13 affairs, activities, and/or transactions by or with Kerr 14 County Treasurer's office. This also deals with those up to 15 and including the appointment of Ms. Williams. I put this on 16 the agenda at the request of -- and the suggestion of a number 17 of citizens. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Before we get too far on this 19 item, I'd like to make a statement. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll let you -- we'll let you 21 there in just a moment, okay? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: A number of citizens have suggested 24 to me that it's appropriate that we have an audit of the 25 affairs of the Treasurer's office, in light of a good deal of 2-26-07 20 1 publicity, speculation, allegations and so forth. What we're 2 talking about here is an issue of accountability. 3 Accountability of the -- any elected official, be it members 4 of the Treasurer's office, present or past, accountability of 5 the members of this Court. Certainly, if -- if there's no 6 inappropriate conduct as a result of the activities of the 7 Treasurer's office previously, we need to know that, and those 8 allegations need to be put to rest. If that's not the case, 9 there needs to be accountability. In fairness to 10 Ms. Williams, who just assumed the duties of that office, she 11 needs to know where she is at point of start where she began 12 her duties at the request of this Court, and after having been 13 appointed by this Court. I -- I think it's a matter of the 14 public trust that we have an issue here. This is taxpayer 15 money, and all of us are accountable to the taxpayers for 16 their funds that we receive and that we're custodians of. The 17 assertion could very well be made, well, we really can't 18 afford this audit. Well, the simple truth is, we can't afford 19 not to have some sort of an audit. 20 AUDIENCE: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the bottom line. Now, with 22 regard to the degree to which we go into the affairs of that 23 office, my initial thinking is, we may want to start out with 24 looking only at cash transactions, and then, depending upon 25 what that discloses, possibly expand or not expand the breadth 2-26-07 21 1 of that audit. There may be some other options out there 2 available to have an audit conducted of that audit -- of that 3 office, and I suspect that may be what the Sheriff has on his 4 mind, at least indirectly, so I'll drop it in his lap at this 5 time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before the Sheriff comes 7 up, if I can -- I agree totally with everything you said, and 8 fully intend to vote to do just that, to do an audit. And 9 I've also talked to the Sheriff; I think I know what he's 10 going to say, 'cause he and I talked about it. He has an 11 ongoing investigation into that office, as well a criminal 12 investigation, and he's looking at using other state agencies 13 possibly to work on an audit there. I really think that 14 investigation needs to at least get to a certain point beyond 15 where it is now before we hire an outside audit company or 16 something along that line. Hopefully, the Attorney General's 17 office will come in and do a forensic audit. It would be at 18 no cost to the taxpayers. I think that would be a good 19 approach. We can always go back in and hire a firm, but I 20 think that it is important from a criminal standpoint and our 21 chief law enforcement officer of the county for him to be 22 given free rein to conduct his investigation without us 23 getting other people in there. And, in fact, I think he would 24 trump us, anyway, and -- and having other people trying to get 25 to that information. So, I think -- and I'd be more than 2-26-07 22 1 happy to let the citizens of the county know that, you know, I 2 will authorize spending taxpayers' funds to do a full forensic 3 audit if needed, but I think it needs to be done after the 4 Sheriff's Department and his criminal investigation is over. 5 And -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with Commissioner 7 Letz. I'd been hearing for some time that there's a 8 possibility, and -- that if there are criminal actions taken, 9 or criminal offenses are found there, that there's a 10 possibility of those other options that you're talking about, 11 whether it be Attorney General's office or D.P.S., or one of 12 those two, I hear, has forensic auditors on board that could 13 come here and do it from -- from the police point of view, as 14 opposed to us spending somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000. 15 And I agree with the Commissioner, that it would -- I just -- 16 I just see that as a business sense, myself, that we'd let the 17 -- let the Sheriff complete or get to the point to where he 18 thinks, yes, it's time to turn it over to the auditor -- to an 19 auditor. And -- but I can tell you that if we don't go that 20 route, I'm going to vote to spend taxpayers' money to -- we're 21 going to audit that office. I just think that it's a business 22 decision to -- whether we spend the 50 grand today out of the 23 taxpayers' pocket, or we wait and let a state agency do it for 24 nothing. And that's pretty easy for me to see that. But, 25 that's all. 2-26-07 23 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with what 2 I've heard, but I want to hear the Sheriff before I make my 3 comments. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He called you Shirley. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: First off, what Commissioner 7 Letz and Commissioner Baldwin are saying is exactly what I'm 8 going to ask y'all to do. I have -- we started this 9 investigation several weeks ago. At the current time, our 10 investigation consists of 69 typed pages of a report, the 11 execution of eight subpoenas on eight different bank accounts. 12 I am trying to do as thorough of an investigation as we can, 13 and I don't want it tried in the public. This thing needs to 14 go to a Grand Jury. We've been in consultation with the 15 Attorney General's office and the District Attorney. I will 16 recommend that, yes, there has to be a forensic audit, but I'm 17 at the point to where it was mailed off Friday to go to the 18 Attorney General's office, and I would like for this Court to 19 go into executive session in a few minutes so that I can give 20 you an update, because, unfortunately, until an investigation 21 is concluded, it is not public, and I can not release it to 22 the public. I have received letters accusing me of being in 23 Pat Tinley's pocket and railroading Barbara, to accusing me of 24 being Barbara's best friend and whitewashing the whole thing. 25 I'll say right now, I have filed criminal charges on my own 2-26-07 24 1 relatives in the past. I do not care about Republican or 2 Democrat when it comes to law enforcement, and I'm going to do 3 the best job that I can do for the people of this county, but 4 the people of this county need to back off and let us do our 5 job. And after that, I'd ask we go in commissioner -- into 6 executive session so I can give you a brief update, 'cause 7 there are some things I think need to be discussed for 8 possible litigation. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have a gun on you, 10 do you? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I do. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. (Laughter.) Take a 13 deep breath, Rusty. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There has been more public 15 stuff about this investigation right now than there has been 16 about triple homicides in this county, and all I ask is that 17 people let us do our job. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point, Sheriff. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I want to do. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I thank you for your comments, 22 Sheriff. I -- I think an important point is what we've heard 23 consistently here today from everybody involved -- the Court, 24 law enforcement -- is that, win, lose, or draw, there's going 25 to be an audit so that everybody knows there's the light of 2-26-07 25 1 day shining on the activities of -- the activities of that 2 office, and that the public knows with some degree of 3 certainty what has or has not occurred. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think that's what's important 6 that is heard here today. And I -- I appreciate the members 7 of this Court and the Sheriff being candid about this. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the only thing 9 unresolved, Judge, is who's going to do it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and I suspect we'll know who 11 that is in due course. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When do you think it would be 13 an appropriate time for an audit to be done, Rusty? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When I get to the point that I 15 come back to y'all and ask for one, if I can't get a state 16 agency to do it. This investigation is continuing. We find 17 different things every day. Like I said, part of -- part of 18 the investigation was mailed off Friday, and I'm hoping that 19 we'll get some help from the A.G.'s office, and we'll see 20 after that happens. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I still -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I cannot give you a time line. 23 I can't give you a timeline on an investigation. I just need 24 the time to be able to do this thing untethered. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think what prompted some of 2-26-07 26 1 this to happen the way it has on the agenda today is the fact 2 that what the newspaper has been reporting was that you were 3 going to conclude your investigation last Friday, or maybe 4 this coming Friday. And -- 5 AUDIENCE: Yes, that's right. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We concluded it to a point that 7 we can get the A.G.'s in, okay? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And every time we get ready to 10 give it to the prosecutor to get the A.G.'s office in, then 11 something else would come up. And I'm not going to say, 12 "Okay, it's concluded now; we're not going to look at that." 13 We have to look at everything that comes across. Some that 14 comes across is definitely civil, but it's still included. 15 Some that comes across should be on the bond issue. Some that 16 comes across could be criminal and it could be civil, okay? 17 And in the end, it's going to be a Grand Jury to decide, not 18 me, okay? But I've got to get every bit of information to 19 them, which will include the forensic audit. But let us see 20 if we can -- and Buster's opinion of a forensic audit costing 21 about 50,000 I think is way, way on the light side. I 22 personally think an audit of what we have discovered already 23 that will have to be gone into could probably cost this county 24 up to 100,000, 'cause you're talking for a several-year 25 period, and you're talking a lot of man hours and work. And 2-26-07 27 1 it's going to have to be done, but if we can get the State to 2 come in and do it at no cost to Kerr County, then I think we 3 need to do that. And if we can't, then we all need to pay it, 4 'cause we're all taxpayers. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think that -- the 6 concern was the fact that the investigation was going to be to 7 a point to where you felt like you couldn't go any further 8 without an audit. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was the way that I was feeling 11 about it, what I've been told and heard. And I think we just 12 have to be sure that we know it's an ongoing investigation, 13 and also that when you get to the point where you can't handle 14 the audit part of it, that we need to be able to step in and 15 carry forward. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can promise you, it's getting 17 to a point that -- it's getting to a point that -- I'm not a 18 C.P.A.; my investigators aren't. There has to be an audit. 19 But let us do our job first, and when it comes to it and I 20 can't get anybody else, I will be the first one in 21 Commissioners Court asking for y'all to pay for an audit, 22 okay? It has to be done, but let me get to see where we can 23 go. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you're going to assure us 25 that there's not going to be any end to the investigation 2-26-07 28 1 prior to you letting us know that you're ready for an audit? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It could be helpful in your -- 4 in your complete investigation. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I'm satisfied. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there still things you 9 want to tell us in executive session? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are still things I'd like 11 to tell y'all in executive session. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, if possible, rather than 13 loading and unloading this courtroom, I'd prefer to do those 14 at the tail end of the agenda. We've got one more executive 15 session item. Would it be possible for you to do that at that 16 time? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Whatever the pleasure of the 18 Court, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. We have a 20 participation form filed by Mr. Sam Cox. Mr. Cox, do you wish 21 to be heard? 22 MR. COX: No, Your Honor. In light of the 23 revelation by the Sheriff, I've been shot out of the saddle. 24 (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's one of the first times 2-26-07 29 1 I recall somebody saying that they've been shot out of the 2 saddle, and happy about it. (Laughter.) Does any member of 3 the Court have anything further to offer in connection with 4 this particular item? If not, we will move on to Item Number 5 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 6 resolution in support of Former Texas Rangers Foundation 7 History and Education Center. I put this on the agenda at the 8 request of members of the Former Texas Rangers Foundation, and 9 also in cooperation with Commissioner Williams, who is our 10 resident wordsmith, whose arm I twisted to work on this 11 resolution, and I appreciate his efforts in that regard. I 12 see we have Mr. Leonard -- Busconi? 13 MR. BUCSANYI: Bucsanyi, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 15 MR. BUCSANYI: Bucsanyi. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Bucsanyi. Well, I knew I wouldn't 17 get it right. And Mr. Joe Davis, who, of course, both are 18 with the Former Texas Rangers Foundation. Is there anything 19 you'd like to bring to our attention in connection with this 20 matter? 21 MR. BUCSANYI: Well, good morning, Judge and 22 Commissioners. I'm Leonard Bucsanyi, 717 Hill Country Drive. 23 On behalf of the Board of Directors of the Former Texas 24 Rangers Foundation, we want to thank you and appreciate your 25 recognition by resolution of our endeavors to bring this 2-26-07 30 1 facility to Kerr County. And at this time, I'd like to 2 introduce the president of the Former Texas Rangers 3 Foundation, former Texas Ranger Joe Davis, for any further 4 comments. Joe? 5 MR. DAVIS: Well, Commissioners and Your Honor, I'd 6 just like to say the same thing that Leonard just stated. We 7 appreciate your support. We hope to make this facility very 8 beneficial to Kerr County. I think it will be. And we're 9 hoping by next year at this time, you'll see some construction 10 out there. It's going to be a state-of-the-art facility. 11 It's going to honor lots of people that served in this Kerr 12 County area, including the first mayor of Kerrville, Joseph 13 Tivy, who was a Texas Ranger, and several others. Not only 14 the Texas Rangers, but law enforcement in general. And we 15 appreciate your support and all the citizens of Kerr County 16 who has come out and supported us. Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Joe? Quick question. And 18 I'm -- I was reading one of the -- I guess the invitation to a 19 function in San Antonio, and I -- and something I did not 20 realize; I was wondering if you'd go over it a little bit. 21 This -- I guess the Former Rangers Association wasn't created 22 for this. I guess it exists currently in San Antonio, and has 23 a museum there, and that museum, I guess, is moving here? Is 24 that -- 25 MR. DAVIS: Yes. Our association has been actually 2-26-07 31 1 established in 1897. In 1936, during the Texas Centennial, 2 Memorial Hall was built in honor of the Texas Rangers, the 3 pioneers, and the trail drivers, and we've had a museum at 4 that location on Broadway, which is next to the Witte Museum. 5 You know, it's served its purpose, and -- and our association 6 and our board decided that we need to expand that building to 7 further educate the youth of this state, and -- about the 8 history of this state, and it's for young and old alike. But 9 it's common knowledge that the more history you know about 10 where you came from, the better citizens you're going to be, 11 and that's what we want, and I think that's what's needed at 12 this time, in this state and in this country, if you look at 13 it. And that's where our whole objective is to do that. And 14 so we were -- are moving it now to Kerrville. We bought 15 15 acres that's paid for now, and we're in our capital 16 building campaign. The invitation you saw is a temporary 17 headquarters. We have -- we have done an agreement with the 18 Buckhorn Museum down there to put in a Texas Ranger museum, 19 which is our association. We're moving the contents from 20 Memorial Hall over to that location, which will be 21 climate-controlled, which is a lot better -- we're not 22 climate-controlled where we're at, and that affects your 23 artifacts. So we're moving it into that and we're having our 24 grand opening this weekend and throughout March. We're two 25 blocks from the Alamo on Houston Street, and it's mainly for 2-26-07 32 1 the tourists that come into San Antonio. This will be a lot 2 different that we're going to build here in Kerrville. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that going to stay there? 4 MR. DAVIS: It will stay there for a period of time. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, then move up here 6 -- all of it move up here eventually? 7 MR. DAVIS: We had to sign a contract with them, so 8 it will be there for a period of time, but the main portion of 9 our facility will be here in Kerr County. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And when you -- and Memorial 11 Hall, there's a trail -- 12 MR. DAVIS: Trail Drivers and Pioneer -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that still down there? 14 MR. DAVIS: They're still there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MR. DAVIS: Just our association. That's going to 17 be about 8,000 feet in San Antonio. Up here, we're going to 18 have about 26,000, and it will include not only a museum, but 19 other facilities for public use. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As usual, Letz asked my 21 question. That was my question. 22 MR. DAVIS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I worked on it all night. 24 But I'm excited about it. I'm -- I'm going down there, and I 25 think some of these other guys are going to be in San Antonio 2-26-07 33 1 with you -- 2 MR. DAVIS: Great. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- this coming weekend, or 4 soon, next few days. 5 MR. DAVIS: It's Friday. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This Friday. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This Friday? 8 MR. DAVIS: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're going to have -- 10 MR. DAVIS: You should have gotten an invitation. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have Texas 12 hors d'oeuvres there; that's what I saw that turned me on. 13 MR. DAVIS: Don Strange is going to be catering. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. So, there will be 15 some quail breast. 16 MR. DAVIS: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess the only other 18 question I had, you guys have an office here in Kerrville. 19 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And where is that? 21 MR. DAVIS: Our office is in the Wells Fargo tower 22 across from Albertsons on the sixth floor. We're in Suite 23 610, and invite any of you or any of the public here to come 24 by and visit with us if you want to learn more. We can show 25 them exactly what it's going to be, and -- and what we entail 2-26-07 34 1 for -- to bring to Kerrville. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 3 MR. DAVIS: I think it will have a great economic 4 impact here and will bring a lot of people here. So it's 5 going to be different. We're not calling it a museum. You're 6 going to see history in the making as you go through it, live 7 action of -- of events that took place in history. A lot of 8 people don't know that the last 32 men into the Alamo was a 9 mounted Ranger group from Gonzales, and it's going to tell 10 stories like that. And people that were Rangers, but went on 11 to do other things; president of universities, governors of 12 this state, bankers. Frost Bank, Tom Frost was a Texas 13 Ranger, and it tells about people like that, that went on to 14 be other things in this state. And it's going to show the 15 kids of the day that if you keep on going and do what's right, 16 you can achieve anything you want to in this life, and that's 17 what we're going to talk about in this facility. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Joe, is there any connection 20 between your organization and your history center that you're 21 going to be building and the one that's in the Ranger -- 22 MR. DAVIS: In Waco? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Waco. 24 MR. DAVIS: We're going to hopefully work with them 25 to do a lot of things. Actually, that facility is under the 2-26-07 35 1 City of Waco, and has been from -- since 1968. We have 2 contacted them, and it's our desire to work with them and to 3 maybe rotate items in and out. They're mainly a tourist 4 attraction, and we do a lot of other things besides having a 5 facility. One of our -- in our association, we also -- which 6 is made up of Rangers and -- and descendants of Rangers, so if 7 you're a descendant of a Ranger, you can join our association. 8 We have a cross program. We -- we've done over 300 crosses 9 that we put up for older Rangers throughout this state and out 10 of state, that -- that we provide to our membership and have a 11 ceremony there as a type of historical marker. 'Cause if you 12 look at Center Point, believe it or not, that little cemetery 13 down there has 33 Texas Rangers in it, more than any other 14 cemetery in the state of Texas, including the state cemetery. 15 And that was our initial project, to mark those Ranger graves 16 down there, so if you go down there, you can see and pick out 17 the Rangers by that cross. Now we're doing it all over the 18 state, and have gone as far as California and New Mexico and 19 Arizona, even Tennessee. Well, some of them were in the 20 Rangers and left to other states, but we haven't forgotten 21 them either. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't wait for you to get this 23 built. 24 MR. DAVIS: I can't either. I'm ready. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When are you going to break 2-26-07 36 1 ground? 2 MR. DAVIS: We're hoping to break ground -- our next 3 fundraiser is September 21st, our gala. We call it Silver 4 Stars and Six Guns. That's when all our supporters are here 5 that's helped this get started, and we want them here when we 6 break ground, so that we plan to do it in September. And, as 7 you know, we haven't asked Kerr County to come out and -- and 8 support this. We've gone all over the state, and we've gotten 9 a lot of results from all over Texas, even in foreign 10 countries and throughout the United States that are supporting 11 this project. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You've currently got a membership 13 drive underway, too, do you not? 14 MR. DAVIS: We're starting a membership drive. I 15 hope all of you consider becoming a member. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I just wanted to pitch that in there 17 so maybe it will be picked up by a few folks here. 18 MR. DAVIS: Thank you. And thank you for your 19 support. We appreciate it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate that additional 21 information, too, 'cause I think it's -- it helps to round out 22 the whole picture. We appreciate that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 24 resolution. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2-26-07 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second for 2 approval of the resolution. Any question or discussion on the 3 motion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm wondering if the 5 resolution shouldn't be read into the record. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well, I'll be happy to do that. 7 "A Resolution of Kerr County Commissioners Court expressing 8 support for the Texas Rangers History and Education Center to 9 be permanently located in Kerrville, Kerr County, Texas. 10 Whereas, the former Texas Rangers Association was established 11 in 1897 to preserve the true history of the Texas Rangers, 12 establish landmarks related to Ranger history, administer 13 scholarship, educational and mentoring programs for Texas 14 youth, and provide fellowship, support, and mutual purpose for 15 former Texas Rangers and their families; and whereas the 16 Former Texas Rangers Foundation, a 501(c)(3) organization, 17 established in 1971 to support and assist in the fulfillment 18 of the F.T.R.A. mission, will construct and manage the History 19 and Education Center on 15 acres of land purchased for that 20 purpose in Kerr County; and whereas the Texas Rangers History 21 and Education Center is intended to encourage regional 22 heritage tourism, which will have a positive economic impact 23 for Kerr County and its communities; and whereas the Texas 24 Rangers History and Education Center is intended to make a 25 significant historical and cultural contribution to the 2-26-07 38 1 residents of Kerr County and visitors alike; now, therefore, 2 be it resolved that Kerr County Commissioners Court, by 3 adoption of this resolution, hereby expresses its support for 4 the Texas Rangers History and Education Center, its purposes 5 and goals. Adopted this 26th day of February, 2007," and 6 signed by all members of this Court. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on 9 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 15 to Item 8; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 16 declare as surplus one office desk and desk chair, three 17 plastic side chairs, and one unused computer with peripherals, 18 and donate same to the Center Point Area Historical 19 Preservation Association. Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. Backup 21 statement tells pretty much. And Mr. Davis mentioned the 22 Center Point folks in terms of the Rangers who are buried in 23 the cemetery, and these folks, in addition to trying to 24 preserve the history of the area, also help with the upkeep of 25 the cemetery and the marking -- not the marking of the graves, 2-26-07 39 1 but the flying of the Texas Rangers flag and so forth. After 2 a number of years of operating out of a shoe box, I've 3 convinced them that they need to start operating out of an 4 office, and as they get ready to start collecting artifacts 5 for an intended museum in Center Point. There is, in my annex 6 office in Center Point, a desk made out of old wood composite 7 products. It hasn't been used in eight years. Some side 8 chairs, and Kevin Stanton has identified a computer which he 9 has stacked in a closet along with some others out at the 10 Juvenile Detention Facility. I was hopeful the Court would 11 declare those things surplus and allow me to give them to 12 Center Point Area Historical Association for an office which 13 will be set up in the Hill Country Telephone Co-op former 14 building on San Antonio Street right in downtown Center Point. 15 And I would offer that as a motion, that we declare surplus 16 those items that are identified, and give them to the Center 17 Point Area Historical Preservation Association. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the agenda item. Is there any question or discussion on 21 the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just wondering if this 23 equipment is registered with the Auditor. I mean, does he 24 have these items on his list of items that are owned by Kerr 25 County? 2-26-07 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. We can 2 certainly check that. I would assume so. They're Kerr County 3 property, and they've been in our possession for a long time. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They put these little tags on 5 them with numbers, and -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me double-check it, 7 Commissioner. If so, they'll be removed from the Auditor's 8 list. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make sure 10 everything's clear with him. He's the one that usually does 11 this kind of thing. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll double-check it with 13 him. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may want to -- may be too 15 late, but look at that list of other merchandise that we 16 surplussed a couple -- well, last meeting or two meetings ago 17 to go on eBay. A lot of that only had -- we put a dollar 18 value on a lot of that, which is old computer stuff, a lot of 19 it, and printers. And, basically, anything on that list would 20 benefit -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, that's kind of 22 what prompted me to think about doing this, was that list. I 23 did a little checking on some of the computer items, and I was 24 told that sometimes they're worth nothing more than scrap, but 25 it's a good suggestion, and I'll look at it again. 2-26-07 41 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 2 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 8 to Item 9. Receive and discuss report on visit and inspection 9 of Kerr County Juvenile Detention Center, the -- the initial 10 building, the larger building, by the Texas Youth Commission 11 executives on February the 15th, 2007. Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your packet, gentlemen, 13 is a memorandum I wrote to you on February 15th regarding a 14 visit from the T.Y.C. executives. Kevin Stanton -- Kevin, 15 come on up, will you, so you can help me work our way through 16 this and answer any questions that come about. At the outset, 17 I want to say thank you to the Maintenance Department and to 18 our community service workers for assisting in the cleanup of 19 that building. It was absolutely spectacular in terms of 20 being all cleaned up, spruced up, polished up, as good as you 21 can make a juvenile detention facility look, given its age, 22 which is a dozen years old or something like that. These 23 folks came down looking for space, because if you hadn't 24 noticed in the newspaper -- or in a report out of Austin, 25 there is legislation filed that -- that would remove from 2-26-07 42 1 T.Y.C. two of its larger -- I believe two of its larger 2 facilities and give them to the Criminal Justice Division for 3 renovation and -- and making into prison facilities. 4 So, that means these folks are out scrambling for 5 facilities, and one of the things they told Kevin and me was 6 that, essentially, in this search for facilities, they really 7 are thinking of smaller facilities, even though they know that 8 might inflate the cost a little bit. Running a 57 -- or 9 52-bed facility has some value, and they're not looking to 10 create 300-bed facilities like that which is proposed to be 11 taken away from them. So, we visited with them for the better 12 part of an hour and a half to tour the facility. They liked 13 what they saw, and they indicated to us they'd like to know 14 more about it, and asked Kevin to find the plans, and which he 15 did for that building. They wanted to take a look at the 16 plans and see if the building, as they look at it, totally 17 meets their needs for whatever programming that they want to 18 have in here. And some of the programming that they talked 19 about may be a little bit different than some of the things 20 they offer. They were discussing the potential of doing drug 21 rehabilitation and sex offender classes and so forth, and were 22 curious as to whether or not there would be the ability to 23 hire professionals to assist them in that regard, and we 24 assured them that we have plenty of professionals in this town 25 who are quite capable and willing to work in that connection. 2-26-07 43 1 Their timeline, obviously, is not in their control. 2 The timeline for making a decision as to whether or not they 3 would be willing to lease this facility from us is going to be 4 governed by what takes place in the Legislature and taking 5 away their facility and some other funding issues that are in 6 the Legislature right now regarding T.Y.C. In terms of the 7 classroom space in the back of the building, they liked what 8 they saw, but they didn't like the fact that it doesn't have 9 restrooms in it. But, by the same token, they wouldn't count 10 out or discount the use of that if they were to lease the 11 building, and they won't say, "Yeah, we'll take the building 12 and you can continue to have the classrooms for your own use." 13 But, if we want to proceed to do as the Juvenile Probation 14 Department has proposed, using those classrooms for programs 15 or schooling -- schooling efforts that are underway now, 16 there's probably no reason why we couldn't proceed to do that, 17 because there's not going to be a decision coming down 18 regarding this probably till later in the year. Would that be 19 your sense of it, Kevin? 20 MR. STANTON: They said the only other choice might 21 be, like they were saying, if they stepped up and -- and 22 provided them an emergency funding to be able to start their 23 search and start their building sooner than that, but they 24 were still saying it would be three to four months, six months 25 down the road. 2-26-07 44 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. They've got to get 2 some sense of what the Legislature's going to do to them or 3 for them this year, but they are interested. We sent them the 4 plans. They're supposed to send back some information to me 5 with respect to other leases that they use for facilities they 6 lease in other places, and they indicated to us that while 7 that may be a pattern lease or a format or a template lease, 8 they certainly are not unwilling to tweak any of these locally 9 for conditions that are necessary to be included in a lease 10 agreement. Bottom line is, sit back and wait and see. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Stanton, you located the plans? 12 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's wonderful. The last time, as 14 I recall, that we were looking for the plans, we came up short 15 locating them, but I'm tickled to death to know that we've got 16 them located. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell them where you found 18 them. 19 MR. STANTON: Well, we found one set of plans belong 20 -- that belonged to the County that D.W. Electric had, and 21 then another set of plans we found behind the file cabinet. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. STANTON: But we've got -- we've got two sets of 24 plans now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good news is, we got them. 2-26-07 45 1 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of those sets needs to find 3 its way to the clerk's office. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. My next comment. 5 We've been in this predicament before. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: When -- when the representatives from 7 T.Y.C. were -- were doing their inspection of the facilities, 8 did they note any major deficiencies that they would require 9 from a modification or -- or remodeling standpoint that would 10 be necessary for them to be able to utilize that facility? 11 MR. STANTON: No, sir. They didn't -- they didn't 12 specify anything like that. The only thing that I remember is 13 what Commissioner Williams stated, was the fact that their one 14 concern they had was there wasn't restrooms in the back 15 temporary buildings, but they said that wouldn't stop them 16 from being able to access those buildings. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But there are a couple other 18 peripheral issues. The sallyport is one, in terms of opening 19 and closing the sallyport. They do that currently from -- for 20 your facility now. 21 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, some electrical 23 rerigging of the opening and closing of the sallyport might be 24 something that would have to be done. And, secondly, we still 25 wash clothes in that -- in the big building, 'cause we don't 2-26-07 46 1 have a laundry facility in the smaller building. That -- but 2 those are minor things. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those are minor. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I was primarily concerned about 6 major renovations or remodeling that might have budgetary 7 impact -- significant budgetary impact, and obviously, there's 8 not -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They didn't identify any, 10 Judge, but I suspect that's why they wanted to look at the 11 plans a little more closely. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think we ought to 14 move forward with the local Probation Department's request, 15 and go that route, as Bill outlined in his last paragraph 16 here, which -- good paragraph, I think. We can't -- we can't 17 in any way sit around and let the State hold us hostage on our 18 property, 'cause you -- who knows what they're going to do. 19 So, I just think we need to move forward with our local people 20 and take care of our local issues. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I agree wholeheartedly, 22 Commissioner. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that a motion? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure we can do a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I think we they got to 2-26-07 47 1 come back with the proposal. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But I -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was looking -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I see Mr. Davis here, and I think 5 he got the message; he can start putting -- putting the pieces 6 together. Is that correct? 7 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you, 8 Commissioners. We appreciate it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Start working on that. Thank you. 10 MR. STANTON: Thank y'all very much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Stanton. We 12 appreciate it. Let's move to Item 10; consider, discuss, and 13 take appropriate action to authorize use of Flat Rock Lake 14 Park on April the 17th, 2007, for the Kerrville Chili and 15 Barbecue Classic and Easter Fest. Commissioner Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Karl, come on up. It's 17 chili cook-off time, right? 18 MR. BEUCHLER: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Easter egg time. 20 MR. BEUCHLER: Easter egg time. Rabbits are getting 21 ready to lay them. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us a little about what 23 you've done and what your proceeds go for and so forth. 24 MR. BEUCHLER: Would y'all like a flyer? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 2-26-07 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Hand them over here; he'll pass them 2 around. 3 MR. BEUCHLER: Pass them around. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 5 MR. BEUCHLER: Well, this is our seventh year since 6 -- since it left Schreiner College. Last year was our biggest 7 year. We had from 4,000 to 5,000 people at the event. We had 8 400 to 500 kids hunting Easter eggs, which is something that, 9 if you've never seen it, you need to come see it. We put 10 5,000 Easter eggs out there, and in 20 minutes, they're gone. 11 And we have three different age groups, from small, middle 12 size and up, and they enjoy theirselves. We have vendors, and 13 -- and it's a good community project. And I'm thinking that 14 it's the largest Easter egg hunt in Kerr County. Also, this 15 year will be a national qualifier for the barbecue people that 16 come. Last year we had 38 cooks. You need 50 for a qualifier 17 to go to the national event in Kansas City. And all of the 18 barbecue people that I've been talking to are going to make 19 sure that we have that number, so we will have a national 20 qualifier going to Kansas City, and that'll put us on the map 21 as far as barbecue. Chili cooking, we had 44 cooks, and there 22 was several people qualified to go to Terlingua to the 23 national cook-off last year. The money that we raise from now 24 on will be used to -- we give it to different people around 25 the town, but here last year and this year, we're going to 2-26-07 49 1 give it to the Kerrville Elks Lodge for their scholarship and 2 -- and charities of their choice. We will have about, I'm 3 thinking, 30 to 40 vendors that will be at the event, so if 4 any of you would like to come out and be judges, we'd 5 appreciate it. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think Commissioner Baldwin 7 volunteered to be a chili judge. 8 MR. BEUCHLER: Well, you know, one year we had the 9 Sheriff's Department; we had a bunch of participants from the 10 Sheriff's Department, and -- and a bunch of the judges came 11 down and did that -- I mean the actual judges came down and -- 12 and participated in that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did that one year, and my 14 stomach burned for three weeks. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why Commissioner 16 Baldwin volunteered for it. 17 MR. BEUCHLER: But all -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Karl, typically, after you 19 pay all your expenses, what kind of dollars do you have left 20 over to give to the -- 21 MR. BEUCHLER: We usually have anywhere from $3,000 22 to $4,000 after the event and pay off our expenses. We -- we 23 owe no one. We save nothing. It's just -- it's just a 24 nonprofit organization. Nobody takes anything off the top. 25 You know, it's -- it just all goes for what -- it's just a lot 2-26-07 50 1 of people getting together to have a good time. And we think 2 that -- when I started this thing seven years ago, that there 3 really wasn't a place for the kids to -- to go hunt Easter 4 eggs, other than their -- their local churches that have their 5 own little private Easter egg hunts. These are for the kids 6 that don't have anywhere else to go. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a good event. I move 8 approval of the request by the Chili Association to use Flat 9 Rock Lake Park on April 7th for the annual Kerrville Chili and 10 Barbecue Classic and Easter Fest. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 14 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 19 very much, sir. 20 MR. BEUCHLER: Thank y'all. One other thing while 21 I'm here. I would like to commend Buster -- Commissioner 22 Baldwin and his men that work for the Road and Bridge 23 Department for taking out that dip on Ball Drive. Everybody 24 in the subdivision really appreciates that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's any way I can be 2-26-07 51 1 of further assistance to you, please do not hesitate to call 2 on me. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's a chili cook judge. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're in. You got a lock on that. 6 You're the chief chili cook judge. Let's move to Item 11, if 7 we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 8 set a final public hearing for Phases II and III of Kerrville 9 South Wastewater Project, being Contracts 722411, 723095, and 10 724441, and 2002 Flood Disaster Relief Contract Number 718257, 11 on March the 2nd, 2007, at 5 p.m., in the Commissioners 12 Courtroom, the public hearing to be conducted by Grantworks. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the statement, Judge. 14 This is a requirement of the grants in each case, and 15 Grantworks typically advertises the public hearing and 16 conducts the public hearing, and it's a necessary thing to do 17 to wrap up these contracts. I move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move approval of what? I 19 can't -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of the public hearing for 21 these three contracts. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we in the room? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Grantworks conducts it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, my only question is, it's 2-26-07 52 1 an awful short fuse, March 2nd. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I asked about that. They 3 said there's no -- there's no 30-day constraint. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We may have to reconsider that day. 5 I think March 2nd is Texas Independence Day, which I think is 6 a holiday. And, here again, in addition to solving dips in 7 roads, we have a -- we have a Texas history aficionado in 8 Commissioner Baldwin, who insisted on the observation of that 9 holiday by members of this Court and the county government. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it the 2nd? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it is. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's March 2nd, and I think we 14 have a holiday. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, why don't we just 16 reschedule that, and I'll just change the date right now; make 17 it March 9. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll call Grantworks to do 20 that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 22 that public hearing to be conducted on March the 9th, 2007, at 23 5 p.m., as indicated in the agenda item. Any further question 24 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 2-26-07 53 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 5 Item 12. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 6 receive and approve a 2006 Racial Profiling Report from 7 Commissioner 2, Constable Joel Ayala. Commissioner Williams? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in furtherance of the 9 requirements of the law, Constable 2 has presented his racial 10 profiling. I move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 13 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 14 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 19 Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 20 approve revised proposal on inspecting Flat Rock Lake Dam and 21 Ingram Dam. Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've asked Mr. Schuster to 23 join us. Stefan, are you there? Thank you for coming back 24 down again. Appreciate that. Stefan has provided us with a 25 revised proposal which includes Ingram Lake Dam, and I'm going 2-26-07 54 1 to let him tell you all about that. 2 MR. SCHUSTER: Morning. Thank you, Judge, 3 Commissioners. For the record, my name is Stefan Schuster 4 with Freese and Nichols. After the February 12th 5 Commissioners Court meeting, we solicited three additional 6 firms -- or three firms we had initially contacted to do 7 nondestructive testing on Kerrville -- or on Flat Rock Lake 8 Dam, and received only two proposals back to this point, one 9 from our already preferred vendor, with about a 30 percent 10 increase to do a second dam. We received another proposal 11 over the weekend with an additional $12,000 proposal to do the 12 additional dam. And Flat Rock Lake Dam, half that cost is 13 tied up in equipment rental, whereas the preferred vendor of 14 choice actually owns the equipment and would not have to have 15 that expense for renting the equipment. But you have the 16 proposal before you. There's really -- I think it's -- the 17 efficiency of doing two dams at once is obviously shown by 18 only having a 30 percent increase in overall costs, so I think 19 there's certainly some efficiency in doing that. The firm is 20 ready to go. We believe we certainly could get the work done 21 in a matter of a week, and scheduling would be as they're 22 available. So, I would think somewhere in the next 90 days, 23 we could have the work completed and a report back to you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stefan -- I'm sorry. 2-26-07 55 1 Stefan, I just have one question. I'm sure there are other 2 questions on the Court. In your second paragraph, you talk 3 about essentially the extent of the voids are identified on 4 the crest and downstream slope. If we -- does this -- does 5 the proposal embody our ability to examine the reservoir side 6 of the dam? 7 MR. SCHUSTER: The reservoir side to the dam would 8 be examined for about 5 feet below the water surface. That's 9 about the extent of the nondestructive testing without 10 lowering the dam. We can get about a 5-foot view below the 11 water line, so it's almost to the crest of the very edge of 12 the dam. But without actually draining the -- the upside 13 stream side of the dam, we would not be able to test that 14 side. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your experience, do you 16 think that's sufficient on the reservoir side? 17 MR. SCHUSTER: The engineer's opinion is that that 18 is sufficient to look at the type of investigation we're 19 looking at here. And it's really focusing on nondestructive 20 testing. We're not going to drill any holes. We're not going 21 to drain any of the dams. This is really to get the best 22 assessment of what we can see without -- without draining the 23 lakes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How deep into the dams does the 25 testing go? 2-26-07 56 1 MR. SCHUSTER: It depends on what -- how deep the 2 clay or how dense the clay is. But they estimate up to a 3 10-foot penetration beneath the cap, so that should go nearly 4 to the base of the dam for both sides. We should have fairly 5 deep penetration. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Schuster, a question I've 7 always had about this, and a fear that I have, and you address 8 it in -- in your second paragraph, and I'm going to read the 9 sentence. "Extreme caution must be exercised when grouting 10 beneath the concrete cap to prevent inadvertently lifting it 11 from the foundation." Can you kind of give us an idea -- I 12 mean, how -- do you pour grout or the other material that you 13 referred to in there until it starts lifting? I think that 14 may be far enough? How do you go about doing that to know 15 that it's full and we're getting in a dangerous area? 16 MR. SCHUSTER: That's an excellent question. One of 17 the reasons we're recommending this -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course it's an excellent 19 question. 20 MR. SCHUSTER: Yeah. The idea is really to look at 21 to what extent the previous voids may have been filled with 22 grout to avoid this very issue, and it's really more about -- 23 you drill a hold to actually have access to where you believe 24 there is a void, and then fill grout at that location. And 25 it's literally done as you would do any -- you know, any home 2-26-07 57 1 project, getting a sense in terms of poking material in until 2 you feel like you've filled the void and it's coming -- coming 3 back up through the edge of the hole, so it's fairly 4 nonscientific at this time. And that's one of the reasons 5 we're recommending this investigation to actually look at 6 where the voids are at this time so we have a better idea 7 where the previous grouting actually still has contact with 8 the cap, and where we would be at risk to actually introducing 9 some lift. So, it's one of the reasons we're making this 10 recommendation for this investigation. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the type of 13 recommendation you're making and what you've identified as the 14 scope of this work, the concern that was raised by 15 Commissioner Oehler about lowering the lake and protecting the 16 spawn of the fish and so forth is now moot? 17 MR. SCHUSTER: Now moot, absolutely. That's 18 correct. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we could proceed at any 20 time? 21 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely. There is no -- there 22 will be no interruption of normal procedures at the dam or 23 anything else. Really, it would take -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only thing is that you 25 wouldn't get -- you would not get a total picture, in my 2-26-07 58 1 opinion, of what is inside the cap by not draining the lake. 2 MR. SCHUSTER: And I agree with that. The costs 3 become, you know, a lot more significant if you look at more 4 destructive testing to look at the different types of 5 technologies that are available. To look at electric 6 conductivity, to look at water movement through the dam and 7 depth would involve a destructive testing methodology where 8 you actually drill holes into the surface, and then obviously 9 lowering the dam would involve a much more significant 10 increase in costs. So, I agree, it's a matter of choice, of 11 going full-blown and going all the way, or looking at 12 something that will give us -- probably the dam is not in any 13 great danger, by anyone's opinion, and so I think what we're 14 doing here is a very good cautionary assessment to look at 15 what the conditions may be, at least the surface areas where 16 we should be concerned. 17 And I think doing both dams, constructed at the same 18 time, using the exact same engineer and same design, would 19 give us an excellent idea in comparison between the two dams 20 what the conditions may be. So, I think, between the two 21 dams, we get a very good assessment of what the condition 22 overall would be. So far, no one's given me any indication 23 that they think that there's a serious problem. This is 24 really more of a -- a safety issue so that we don't have to 25 worry about it in the next decade or so, particularly lifting 2-26-07 59 1 the cap, as previous repairs have been done. So, I don't 2 think there is a need for a more sophisticated investigation 3 at this time. There's no signs or indicators of that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- the test that you're 5 doing here, if it -- if the voids are bigger than you thought, 6 at that point a recommendation could be to go and do some more 7 looking -- 8 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- at specific areas of the 10 damage? 11 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely. This first phase is 12 really to look, get a good assessment of the subsurface 13 condition beneath the cap of the dam, and to look at what may 14 have been identified in the T.C.E.Q. inspection reports and 15 what may have been done in the previous repairs, and then make 16 a decision on whether something major needs to be done or 17 whether we're in good shape and we can have a very affordable 18 repair. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A question's been asked of 20 me as to why I hadn't included the Center Point Dam in this 21 inspection as well. Seems to me that the construction of 22 Center Point Dam is a little different than the construction 23 of Ingram and Flat Rock Lake Dam, and that would tell me that 24 the Center Point Dam probably predates the other two. My 25 memory doesn't take me there; I don't know that. I see 2-26-07 60 1 Commissioner Oehler -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mine doesn't either; I was 3 barely born. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Center Point -- the Center 5 Point Dam is totally different construction. It's just a 6 concrete -- a solid concrete -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's kind of like a wall. 8 Kind of like a wall. There's no spillway and so forth. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think there's any dirt. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There doesn't appear to be 11 any need to do that. That's the whole point of my referencing 12 it. So, with the information that's been presented, and the 13 revised cost that Mr. Schuster has presented us, it appears 14 that we are under -- under the threshold which would require 15 an RFQ, and I think the revised cost total now for two dams is 16 $24,600. 17 MR. SCHUSTER: That is correct. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that correct? I would 19 move approval of that, and we'll do a budget amendment. Maybe 20 I can get the Auditor to prepare it after the break. And 21 that -- those funds would be transferred from the Flood 22 Control account for this purpose, and that's my motion. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second your motion, being 24 as I'm the other one involved in this. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 2-26-07 61 1 question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only -- only suggestion that 3 I have is that we drain Flat Rock Lake and wait till summer, 4 and see if we can really drive the City crazy. (Laughter.) 5 That's a great opportunity. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd move your suggestion, 7 Commissioner, but I won't be around to see that, 'cause I'll 8 get killed. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. Well, that's kind of 10 part of my deal here. (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate your vote of 12 confidence there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know how much I care for 14 you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Schuster, I have some question 16 about your numbers here, -- 17 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if I might go over them with you. 19 MR. SCHUSTER: You bet. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: In your -- in your transmittal, you 21 indicated in the first paragraph the present 18,000 for this 22 project would need only increase by 30 percent to include the 23 second dam, and then at the end of your materials, you 24 indicate the total of $24,600. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those don't match up. 2-26-07 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: My calculation is that increasing by 2 30 percent brings us to 23,4, and not 24,6. 3 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, sir. We had this discussion, 4 actually, on Friday afternoon, that we had the same 5 misidentification in our office. The 30 percent increase is 6 actually on the vendor's cost, and the additional $1,000 or 7 $1,200 are for our supervision of that vendor in the field, 8 the surveying and the laying out the lines on the dam. And, 9 so, the 30 percent increase in cost is what the vendor quoted 10 us for doing the additional testing on the dams, and then the 11 additional $1,200 difference is for our supervision and 12 surveying work. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which makes the percentage 14 about 33.3, Judge. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I calculate it as 42.16. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 17 MR. SCHUSTER: Yeah, we noted that error in our 18 office as well, so thank you, Judge, for noticing that. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the dollars, the amount 20 that matters. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I was just trying to see if we 22 couldn't make that a little leaner. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's okay. 24 Appreciate that. Thank you, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 2-26-07 63 1 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 2 signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 7 Item 14 -- thank you, Mr. Schuster. 8 MR. SCHUSTER: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 14, consider, discuss, and take 10 appropriate action on request from Collin County to join or 11 otherwise assist Collin County and others similarly situated 12 to resist negative effects of indigent health care program 13 legislation. I put this on the agenda. As members of the 14 Court are aware, I circulated some information that we 15 received from the County Judge in Collin County, who seems to 16 be -- Judge Self, who seems to be really taking the bull by 17 the horns on some legislation that's pending over in our 18 current Legislative session dealing with our indigent health 19 care responsibilities under state law, and he has solicited 20 Kerr County and other counties to join him in resisting the 21 negative affects of some of this legislation, and I would like 22 to give him a response, yea, nay, or otherwise. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's power in 24 numbers, sometimes. When it comes to Austin, I don't think it 25 matters much with those people. But the report that I had 2-26-07 64 1 gotten last week is that what the State's wanting -- wanting 2 to do within the indigent health care program is basically 3 rate counties, and so I think we should try everything we can 4 and do everything that we -- in our power to stop that, and 5 here's a vehicle to do it. So, I'm certainly in favor of it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that a motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to join 12 Collin County and others similarly situated to resist the 13 negative effects of indigent health care program legislation. 14 Any question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 20 Item 15; discuss, consider, and take appropriate action on a 21 copier lease contract. Mr. County Attorney? 22 MR. EMERSON: Thank you, Judge. It's time for our 23 annual -- I shouldn't say our annual renewal; our renewal 24 every five years or so with the copier. We currently have an 25 old Xerox machine. We solicited bids from Xerox and Ikon. 2-26-07 65 1 Because of the nature of our office, we have do have a 2 high-speed copier that will handle quite a bit of volume. 3 Based on the two presentations that were made to our office, 4 Xerox basically said you can keep the same old machine that 5 you already have that's five years old, that runs 32 pages a 6 minute, or we can take a brand-new Ikon that will run 50 pages 7 a minute, with an allowance for up to 10,000 copies a month, 8 which is a $2,500 -- or a 2,500-page copy increase over what 9 we currently have. And by taking the new Ikon contract, we 10 can also save the County $768 a year, so that's what I'd 11 propose to the Court. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it? 13 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 17 approve the recommendation of the County Attorney for a lease 18 on a new copier for his office. Any question or discussion? 19 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 20 hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why don't we 25 take about a 15-minute break here, and we'll come back and 2-26-07 66 1 pick up the timed item. 2 (Recess taken from 10:19 a.m. to 10:37 a.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 5 might. We were in recess for a short period of time. We'll 6 reconvene. We have a timed item for 10:30; it's a bit past 7 that now. Item 16, consider, discuss, and take appropriate 8 action to enter into agreements with the City of Kerrville and 9 Kendall County whereby Kendall County will be responsible for 10 EMS service, both emergency and transport, for Kerr County 11 residents that live in Falling Water and The Reserve 12 Subdivision. Commissioner Letz? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. This 14 is something we've talked about going on probably two years as 15 an issue. I certainly bring it up every time we have our 16 joint City/County meetings, as this is in my area. And 17 what -- before they come up, I'd like to make a few comments. 18 Roger Lampman and Mr. Bernard Selensky, both representatives 19 of Falling Water Subdivision, are here. In fact, there is a 20 draft agreement that was prepared by the City Attorney, Mike 21 Hayes, relating to amending the agreement for EMS coverage. 22 There's another agreement that I didn't include, but it also 23 brings in City of Ingram as a party of that because of the 24 larger -- I guess -- I can never really figure out why, but 25 Mike Hayes says that we need to have that one signed. Well, 2-26-07 67 1 they're a party to the EMS contract. And what this basically 2 does is to -- as the motion -- or agenda item reads, will put 3 The Reserve and Falling Water as -- the primary responder for 4 EMS services will be Kendall County. 5 This is a lot more complicated than what we did out 6 in far west Kerr County. As I understand, that agreement has 7 never been signed by all the parties, but I think it is 8 actually functioning. But in this circumstance, there may be 9 and probably will be a cost associated with it that Kendall 10 County's going to want for picking this up. Not a huge 11 amount. I think we can put it within the budget. It's, you 12 know, less than $5,000, probably closer to $2,000 or $3,000. 13 Kerrville EMS will -- will be the second backup. If the 14 Comfort ambulance is in, then the intention is that the -- I 15 mean, excuse me, if the Comfort ambulance is out on a call, 16 then the ambulance will not come out of Boerne; it will come 17 out of Kerrville, so they will have to forward the call back 18 here. 911, we're not recommending changing on this one as we 19 did out in west Kerr County. Chief Holloway and I have looked 20 at that and talked about it quite a bit, and current thought 21 is that it's probably better to let the 911 calls go to 22 Kerrville dispatch, and then on EMS calls only, forward those 23 to Kendall County. 24 And, anyway, that's kind of an outline of it. The 25 next step after this is going to be -- I don't really 2-26-07 68 1 anticipate any action today; this is just to make the Court 2 aware. Next action will be to go to Kendall County and get 3 them formally on board and have them draft the agreement that 4 will actually be between the Kendall County EMS and City of 5 Kerrville, and hopefully we'll finally get this thing put to 6 rest. But I know Mr. Lampman has come today, and he'd like to 7 make a statement as a resident of Falling Water. 8 MR. LAMPMAN: Thank you for the opportunity to speak 9 to you today. My name is Roger W. Lampman. I reside at 140 10 Lookout Point Road in Comfort, which is located in Falling 11 Water Subdivision, approximately 5 miles out of Comfort north 12 on Highway 87 towards Fredericksburg. The entrance to our 13 subdivision is in Kendall County; however, the large majority 14 of the subdivision is located in Kerr county. Bernard 15 Selensky, who's president of our property owners' association 16 and a resident of Kendall County, and I -- and I are here 17 today representing the Kerr and Kendall County Falling Water 18 Property Owners' Association. I am currently serving as their 19 vice president. Currently, there's 72 homes located in 20 Falling Water, of which 54 are located in Kerr County. 21 Our problem: In the event of a medical emergency in 22 Falling Water, where a resident residing in the Kerr County 23 portion of the subdivision would need to be transported, we 24 would need to wait for the EMS unit from Kerrville to arrive, 25 even though it is quite possible that a unit -- EMS unit in 2-26-07 69 1 Kendall County that would be located in Comfort could arrive 2 and transport a patient by as much as 20 to 25 minutes sooner 3 than that of an EMS unit from Kerrville. We have discussed 4 this matter with both the Kerr and Kendall County 5 Commissioners serving our area and members of the Kerrville 6 Fire Department, Chief Raymond Holloway, Assistant Chief Mark 7 Beavers, and EMS Director Eric Maloney, and have been told we 8 must get your approval to improve upon the current method of 9 handling. Because of the similarity in the names of the 10 subdivisions, and after meeting with Chief Holloway, the 11 declarant of The Reserve at Falling Water has also asked that 12 they be -- be made a part of this agreement, and we have given 13 y'all information from that subdivision. There are presently 14 four homes, I believe, completed in The Reserve, and 12 under 15 construction. 16 We believe the solution to this problem would be for 17 an interlocal agreement, as you have stated, Mr. Letz. And 18 rather than bore you with additional on that, I think you 19 covered it very well, sir. Then in the past two and a half 20 years, we have known of only two EMS calls to our subdivision. 21 One call was in Kerr County, the other in Kendall. Our 22 property owners' association supports the Comfort Volunteer 23 Fire Department with a substantial monetary gift each year, 24 and our residents are paying sizable county taxes in both 25 counties. We trust that the Kerr County Commissioners Court 2-26-07 70 1 will help us solve this problem before some emergency 2 situation occurs at one of our doorsteps. We understand that 3 this interlocal agreement is -- is on y'all's -- or in your 4 hands, and we thank you again for allowing us to appear before 5 you, and we trust that we'll receive your support. Thank you 6 very much. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a couple of questions. 10 I'm a little bit disturbed by the two subdivisions with very 11 similar names. Is there any way to change one of them? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The names, what they are -- 13 well, they're side-by-side; they're served by one water 14 system. The names are Falling Water, and then The Reserve at 15 Falling Water. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, 911 doesn't have a 17 problem with that? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They approved them. I mean, 19 they're both relatively new subdivisions, and in reality, the 20 -- The Reserve at Falling Water, the "at Falling Water" has 21 almost disappeared. I mean, I think their sign is -- at the 22 entrance is probably 5 feet high and probably 10 feet long, 23 for "The Reserve" portion, and the "at Falling Water" is about 24 6 inches high and 2 foot long. I mean, it's -- you know, so I 25 don't think it's a confusion to the public. 2-26-07 71 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or to the EMS groups. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, all right. Let's say 4 that Mr. Lampman dials 911. Where does that call go, first 5 time? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The current feeling, after 7 talking with Chief Holloway last week, was it'll go to 8 Kerrville EMS -- or Kerrville police, I'm sorry. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. It will come to 10 Kerrville. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then they send it down to 13 Comfort? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To Kendall County; send to it 15 Boerne. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somewhere. They send it 17 somewhere else. So, that's two calls, okay. And then if 18 Kendall County's ambulance is out on a run, then the call 19 comes right back to Kerrville. I know there's not a better 20 way -- and I'm glad you've gotten this far. This is 21 thrilling. It just -- golly, there's -- seems like there's a 22 better way to do it than that. I don't have an answer to it. 23 And then let's say that Kendall County gets the call and they 24 respond in their ambulance. Do they come to Kerrville with 25 the patient, or do they go -- where do they go? 2-26-07 72 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They go to wherever Kendall 2 County chooses to go. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, that's none of our 4 business, then? 5 MR. MALONEY: It would be up to Kendall County, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then, in our 7 agreement -- or in our hopes and dreams, do we -- do we want 8 Kendall County to be somewhat close to our protocols? I mean, 9 I know that they probably are not trained to the level of 10 pushing the drugs like y'all are. But -- wait a minute. 11 Isn't that correct terminology, "pushing drugs"? 12 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. Or medication 13 administration would probably be -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, medication 15 administration. 16 MR. MALONEY: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are highly trained to 18 where you can call Peterson Hospital and the doctor says, 19 "You're right, give them some medication," and you can do 20 that, but not all EMS departments are that qualified. 21 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir, there are differences 22 between the systems, as far as on the medication 23 administration and procedures in general, in regards to the 24 medical protocols. That is set up actually by the medical 25 director for the EMS service. Ours is Dr. Nail, who was the 2-26-07 73 1 EMS Director with Sid Peterson. I'm not actually sure who 2 Kendall County's medical director is. As far as on the 3 administration -- the actual patient care, they will receive 4 fine patient care with Kendall County. They are -- they're 5 either the ALS with MICU capability, or MICU capability, which 6 is identical with us, so they can still receive the same 7 patient care. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I wanted to hear. 9 MR. MALONEY: There may be little differences, but 10 minimal. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's it. Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you finished? I'm 13 sorry. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does Kendall County have an 16 EMS box stationed in Comfort? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the only -- only 19 potential delay is if that -- if a call came in and that 20 happened to be out on another run. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and it would. And I 22 think the residents -- and that's not -- that ambulance is not 23 out that much. I mean, obviously, it is, and there's a risk, 24 and if that ambulance is out, it could be potentially another 25 5-minute delay or so to get that call back up to Kerrville and 2-26-07 74 1 then Kerrville dispatch. 2 MR LAMPMAN: Our property owners are well aware of 3 that, sir. And, in fact, we've talked about it at homeowners' 4 meetings and at board meetings. We understand that if they're 5 out, the best we can do is that, and many of us -- I know at 6 least 24, 25 families, we've joined this Air Evac membership 7 thing where they'd have to call in a helicopter, where we're 8 going to be members of it. So, I think as time passes, more 9 people are going to spend that little bit of money and become 10 members of that, because if you need to be transported, the 11 quicker the better. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- the main reason 14 for having it on the agenda, and why the gentlemen are here, 15 is to make sure what they provided today is sufficient for us 16 to take action. In my opinion, it is. It's -- Dale Crenwelge 17 has signed for The Reserve. He is -- that association has -- 18 it has not been turned over to the homeowners' association 19 yet, though it is about to be turned over, as I understand it, 20 and these gentlemen represent the Falling Water Subdivision, 21 and that's what I've told them. I said that I need assurance, 22 and I think the rest of the Court's going to need assurance 23 that this is what the residents want. And I don't want to 24 just go changing EMS without the people knowing it, and I take 25 this -- what they've provided us as sufficient information 2-26-07 75 1 that -- a documentation that these two subdivisions want this 2 change. And we'll go forward -- or I'll go forward with 3 Kendall County. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It just seems to me like if 5 Kendall County's going to be the primary provider, they should 6 get the 911 call. And then if they're out, they could call 7 Kerrville and say, "You need to respond." It seems to me like 8 it's -- that's just me thinking, but it just seems like the 9 primary source would be contacted first. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we've talked about that, and 12 it goes -- we've looked at it both ways. One of the issues 13 is, fire works real well right now; they know how to tone out 14 that out of Kerrville, and we'd hate -- and the reality is, 15 fire is probably a more likely problem, and we hate to mess 16 with the system any more than we have to. Because as soon as 17 you start changing things, it's going to cause more delays. 18 So, fire gets toned out on time now. I don't think the 19 Sheriff's Department's ever been called in to Falling Waters, 20 but also, they're -- they have to be considered as well. If 21 there is an emergency situation for the Sheriff's Department 22 and if there is a call like that, they need a pretty quick 23 response usually. So, there's -- you have to look at fire. 24 Unfortunately, 911 doesn't differentiate who we're trying to 25 contact. The -- I guess the other part of it a little bit, if 2-26-07 76 1 there is a -- a problem -- this is kind of my personal 2 standpoint -- a dispatch problem, I would rather have it where 3 I have some authority over it, which is in Kerrville, even 4 though it's very minimal, but at least I can call Eric and 5 yell at Eric, and I think Eric listens. Whereas if we totally 6 move it and put it in Kendall county, I think our residents 7 are totally left really without a real strong representation, 8 or representation, because they're going to -- you know, I 9 just don't know how they work it in Kendall County when it 10 comes to that issue. But Kendall County -- they said they 11 want that, and we'll have to look at that again. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the other thing that I 13 have a concern over is that if Kerrville would reduce their -- 14 their EMS charges by the amount that is being paid to Kendall 15 County to provide that service, that would seem to be in 16 order, to me. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be as well. 18 Have to bring that up next Monday. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anything else? Okay, that's it. 21 I mean, I don't anticipate action; it will come back after 22 talking to Kendall County, and hopefully get this done in the 23 next couple of months. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that particular 25 agenda item by any member of the Court? Let's move, if we 2-26-07 77 1 might, to Item 18. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 2 action on policy change regarding all new hires being required 3 to have their paychecks directly deposited to a checking 4 and/or savings account as of March 1, 2007. Ms. Hyde, the 5 H.R. Director, asked that this item be placed on the agenda. 6 Ms. Hyde? 7 MS. HYDE: I asked that this be put on the agenda, 8 because right now we have multiple ways that our checks are 9 being processed. It costs us quite a bit of money, costs us 10 quite a bit of time. Most governmental agencies are now to 11 the point where they require new hires to have automatic 12 deposit of some sort, whether it be checking or savings 13 accounts. This is for new hires; existing employees would be 14 grandfathered in. But it also sets the stage so that we can 15 start getting our payroll system updated during the next 18 16 months, so that we don't have to have a person sitting down 17 there for two and a half, three hours stuffing paychecks, 18 which seems like a huge waste of time. We have to print them. 19 We have to fold them. We have to stuff them. We have to mail 20 them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some -- I have no problem with 22 this. I have no problem -- Sheriff already has a comment in 23 disagreement, but anyway, I have no problem with it, but I was 24 under the impression that it really wasn't a time savings, 25 because you still had to get the pay stub to the employee in 2-26-07 78 1 an envelope. 2 MS. HYDE: Well, part of that is -- yes, but like 3 we're saying, the next 18 months, we don't look for it to be 4 that way. There is a system that already works with Incode, 5 Odyssey, most of your major payroll systems, that will take 6 the check; they fold it, the check itself. If you have to 7 have an old-fashioned check, hard check, it'll actually take 8 that, it will fold it all up for you, and seals it. Most of 9 us get it when we get -- or have seen them when you get 10 checks; they're normally about this wide. You rip off the 11 top, rip off the -- rip off the two sides, you open it up, and 12 there it is, and it does it for you. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Actually, with the heavy use of -- 14 basically, everyone has an e-mail account now. Any county 15 employee that -- that has an e-mail account right now could 16 get their pay stub electronically via e-mail with no paper. 17 MS. HYDE: Right. 18 MR. TROLINGER: So that's kind of the focus of this, 19 is reducing the driving around on payday to go pick up this 20 paper and move it around. 21 MS. HYDE: I mean, we have -- all the officials or 22 department heads or somebody has to come over here, has to 23 pick up the checks, has to take them back. I mean, it just 24 seems like a lot of wasted time. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to disagree with 2-26-07 79 1 you. I just don't like the word "required." It's the 2 employee's money, and they should have the choice and 3 opportunity to do whatever the hell they want to do. I have 4 chosen direct deposit, and I appreciate you doing that. I 5 like it. It's the best thing for me, but it may not be the 6 best thing for an employee next to me. I just don't like the 7 word "required." I think I would strongly encourage people, 8 but I just -- you know, I just don't like a Big Brother issue 9 of telling people what to do and how to do it with their own 10 money. That's my only comment. I'm going to vote against 11 this. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question -- two questions. 13 In the unlikely event that you hire a -- Kerr County hires an 14 employee that -- who does not have a bank account -- 15 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know that sounds weird in 17 2007, but there are probably some out there. 18 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happens then? 20 MS. HYDE: Well, just like with anything else, 21 there -- there can be some special dispensations made, but for 22 the most part, you have to have some sort of proof that money 23 -- I mean, they're going to have to some have someplace to 24 deposit that check. They're going to have to have someplace 25 to cash that check. If they do go to a regular institution 2-26-07 80 1 and they don't have a checking or savings account, it is 2 costing them money, so most people have got some sort of 3 checking and/or savings account so that they can cash their 4 checks. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you ever -- have you 6 ever visited check-cashing stations? 7 MS. HYDE: Oh, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where people just line up to 9 cash their checks on payday. Second question is, what's the 10 percentage of current employees who have done like my 11 colleague here and switched over to direct deposit? 12 MS. HYDE: Well, when I first came here, there might 13 have been 10 percent of our total employees that were on 14 automatic deposit. There was a trust factor. There was 15 evidently some baggage from last year, when they attempted to 16 try to put this in, and we're up to about 55 percent right 17 now. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything to offer? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would be wrong with doing 21 as Commissioner Baldwin -- not requiring it? Saying that 22 it's, you know -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Suggested. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- suggested, and -- 25 MS. HYDE: Well, we can keep suggesting it. The 2-26-07 81 1 problem that we have is there are still a lot of folks that 2 don't trust it because of what happened before. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that -- and I think 4 that that's probably my biggest concern, is that there is a 5 trust factor. There's a trust factor coming out of -- any 6 money coming out of the county at the moment, things being 7 done properly. And I think that we, as a county, you know, 8 need to build that trust back that we're doing things right. 9 And, you know, I'd be more inclined to require it six months 10 from now, after it's working smoothly and not having a 11 problem -- 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- than I am right now, because 14 there is a trust factor. And that's -- I think the Sheriff's 15 Department, they did it and they had some problems. And I 16 don't blame people for having a little bit of a -- 17 MS. HYDE: The good news is, Rusty trusts us now. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just signed up for automatic. 19 We'll see. I believe it's coming, but I -- but I also have 20 employees that do not have checking or savings, and I don't 21 think that it should be a requirement before I hire them that 22 they have it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my problem. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you think "strongly encourage" as 25 opposed to "require" would be the appropriate terminology at 2-26-07 82 1 this point? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would -- like I said, I 3 signed up last week, so in a few months, I would probably say 4 "strongly encourage." Right now, I'll just say "encourage." 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, let's go along 7 with what we're doing. 8 MR. TROLINGER: The only other support I can give on 9 this is, Eva's trying to do the right thing for people. 10 People that don't have bank accounts that go to the 11 check-cashing places are having a cut -- a tax taken out of 12 their checks. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's their choice. 14 MR. TROLINGER: You know, if we can help them out 15 when they come to work here and get them a bank account, get 16 them electronically doing this, I think it's to the benefit of 17 the employees. I think Eva's -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of the "strongly 19 encourage." 20 MR. TROLINGER: I think that's what Eva's doing; 21 she's looking out for people. 22 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- and I -- no, I won't 24 bring that up. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I agree with what you're 2-26-07 83 1 trying to do. It makes sense. It makes sense for the 2 accounting system, it makes sense for payroll. But, like I 3 say, it's very hard to make it mandatory for people that don't 4 have the -- the accounts. I can't imagine them not, but some 5 don't. Some people just deal strictly in cash. Their taxes 6 have already been paid. Withholding, the whole bit's been 7 taken out, so whatever they get, cash it, put it in your 8 pocket. When it's gone, it's gone. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what you may have is some 10 people, in previous days or something, had a problem with 11 insufficient funds in banking accounts and things like that, 12 and they finally got to the point, because of those costs -- 13 you know, whether it's a personal mismanagement of money or 14 whatever, that they have just decided, "I don't have a 15 checking account. I don't want any, you know, possibility of 16 that," so they just deal with cash. And with a savings 17 account, it's a little bit harder, too, and I have employees 18 that just deal with cash, and that's what they would rather 19 deal with. And I don't think they should be forced to have an 20 account if they don't want one, for whatever reason. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that we can get 22 up to, you know, 90 percent, 95 percent electronic 23 voluntarily. Isn't that accomplishing the same thing? 24 MS. HYDE: Yeah. To a point, yeah. But it also 25 helps us when we're doing other things. And the Sheriff makes 2-26-07 84 1 a good point, as far as some people can't get some accounts. 2 But it also helps when you're starting to try to validate who 3 a person is. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we taking any steps to 5 work on the other 45 percent of our current employees? 6 MS. HYDE: Well, the biggest thing that we've been 7 doing is just -- is any new employee that comes in, we're 8 trying to sell them on it. We show them the form; we talk to 9 them about it, the great pluses. If you go on vacation, if 10 you're out of town, you don't have to come in and get a check. 11 You don't have to go down to the bank. You don't have to do 12 all those type things. And we're trying to work with John so 13 that very soon, we can start allowing people not even to get a 14 check stub; they can go online and get their own. I mean, 15 they don't have -- we don't have to worry about the paper. 16 But right now, you're talking about -- we did it last pay 17 period with Mindy, and it took us four and a half hours just 18 to stuff checks. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, as long -- if we can get 20 rid of having to stuff them -- the receipt portion, I'd be -- 21 then I can see a real savings, but right now we still have to 22 do that, it seems to me. So, until we get the e-mail portion 23 set up, or some other system -- 24 MS. HYDE: There's some software that we're going to 25 go look at, and the City uses it right now, where they do the 2-26-07 85 1 automatic folding, and you don't have to use manpower to 2 actually fold these checks and put them in something. So, 3 we're -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the e-mail one better, 5 because it -- I mean, it's saving the postage and the paper. 6 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's the way to try to 8 go. But maybe you can -- maybe we could offer a -- you could 9 offer a savings -- pass a savings on to people that do it 10 direct payroll. I mean, they get, you know, a dollar more a 11 paycheck. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing the bank -- or the 13 schools do is, their paychecks, if you use automatic deposit, 14 the employee's paycheck actually goes in about -- I think it's 15 up to two days earlier than the regular paycheck. 16 MS. HYDE: Right. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's where the school 18 gets a lot of teachers, my wife included, that do use 19 automatic, because they do get it two days earlier than they 20 normally would. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think there's an A.G. opinion that 22 suggests that unless there is a true emergency, that -- that 23 County employees should not be paid early, and then it has to 24 be approved by the Court, whatever that particular emergency 25 is. 2-26-07 86 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just saying that's how the 2 schools do it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd hate to run afoul of that. But, 4 anybody else have anything to offer in connection with this 5 particular agenda item? Hearing none, we'll move on. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do have a question 7 about the agenda. Are we not receiving reports from 8 departments any more? I can't see that anywhere. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We haven't in some time, no. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the point is, I see John, 11 the guru -- computer guru here, and I think at some point 12 pretty soon, I'd like to have a report from him on the new 13 system. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And to see that it's up and 16 running. And if it's not up and running, this Court has spent 17 a lot of money on that machine, and we need to hold somebody 18 accountable and, you know, do some things to get this machine 19 up and running. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think, with respect to reports from 21 the departments, a lot of those we've been receiving somewhat 22 on a routine basis anyway in writing. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They get distributed to us in normal 25 distribution. 2-26-07 87 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see that it's disappeared 2 off of the agenda. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a quick question of 4 Mr. Trolinger. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your cell phone 7 number so I know how to get ahold of you? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't do it. Don't do it, 9 John. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, we have it on a card. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't want it in that record, do you? 15 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to read it into 17 the record. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At this point in time, we have 19 completed all of the particular agenda items for closed -- or 20 public session. I assume that there's still a desire by the 21 H.R. Director to go into executive session on Item 17; is that 22 correct? So, at this time, we will -- we will close the 23 public or open session of the meeting, and it is 11:12. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we doing the Sheriff's 25 also? Are we going to do the Sheriff's request also? 2-26-07 88 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 (The open session was closed at 11:12 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 5 is contained in a separate document.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We are now back in public or -- or 8 open session, and it is 11:51 a.m. Does any member of the 9 Court have anything to offer in connection with the matters 10 discussed in closed or executive session? Hearing nothing, we 11 will proceed and go to Section IV of the agenda. 4.1, payment 12 of the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second to pay the 16 bills. Any question or discussion? Sheriff? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uh-oh. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm looking at Page 29. Thank you 19 and sympathy cards. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 220 bucks worth. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's paid out of the donation 23 or equipment fund anyhow, okay? And, yes, that's exactly what 24 that is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody that departs your jail that 2-26-07 89 1 gets out after time served, you give a sympathy card or a 2 thank you card? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, sir. There are times when 4 former employees have died; we've had a number of them, and I 5 would like to be able to send cards on the County's behalf to 6 those. And the little thank you cards, to be honest, are for 7 my own employees. I'm trying to do some things when they do a 8 job above and beyond, like I had one perform CPR on an 9 individual the other day and saved his life, and I have 10 jailers that find weapons coming into the jail, and I'd like 11 to be able to say thank you to those people personally, to 12 kind of boost their morale up and make relation -- working 13 relationships better, 'cause it has changed a lot over the 14 last year. We're getting urine and feces and everything else 15 thrown all over them by these nut cases; there's nothing we 16 can do. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you write them, or does 18 Nancy? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I write them. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know how anybody can 21 read your writing. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They can figure it out. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You found that to be a good morale 24 booster? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've found it to be very 2-26-07 90 1 effective, and helps with employees. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And the funds come out of donated 3 funds -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Donated funds. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from citizens? Okay. Any other 6 questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by 7 raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 12 Budget Amendment Number 1. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for my office, to 14 transfer $1,077 out of my Assistants line item to the Overtime 15 line item, for the -- my two employees that helped the weekend 16 -- helped the Treasurer get -- try to get a start in her 17 office. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2-26-07 91 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to 3 Budget Amendment Request Number 2. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 2 is for Constable, 5 Precinct 1. He -- he's received a donation of $50. What 6 we're doing is increasing the -- the revenues by $50, and 7 adding $50 to his budget in Miscellaneous. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 13 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 18 Request 3. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 3 is for the 198th District 20 Court. We need to transfer $1,259.77 from Court-Appointed 21 Attorneys to Court Transcripts. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 25 question or discussion? We're going to run out of 2-26-07 92 1 Court-appointed lawyer money, aren't we? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: We may. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll make a wager with you right now, 4 give you 8 to 5. Do you want any? No, didn't think so. Any 5 other questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do you have a 11 Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for us? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I have one that I made up 13 after you approved the payment of the -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: $12,357.72? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. To transfer $5,613 from 16 10-409-204, which is Nondepartmental Workers Comp Insurance 17 line item, and $6,745 from 10-409-205, which is the -- the 18 liability -- General Liability Insurance line item. We've 19 already paid those premiums for this year, and judging by 20 the -- by the quarterly payment that we made for Workers Comp, 21 we'll have a sizable excess in that account in here at the end 22 of the year. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 2-26-07 93 1 of Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any question or 2 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 7 any -- any other budget amendments? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: No budget amendments. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I don't know if the 12,000 11 needs to be addressed as a late bill or not. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's already authorized, if 13 I'm not mistaken. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I think you authorized it, but 15 I just wanted to make sure that that's what you did. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We got -- that figure is only 17 good through March 5, I believe, according to the -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where does -- Tommy, where do 20 those funds come from? What -- where do they come from? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Commissioners Court budget. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: It's out of Nondepartmental. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nondepartmental. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Out of -- I moved from it those two 25 line items I mentioned. 2-26-07 94 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just now? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 5 reports from the District Clerk, Justice of the Peace, 6 Precinct 3, Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1, and 7 Environmental Health. Do I hear a motion that those reports 8 be approved as presented? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval, as indicated. Any question or comment? All in 13 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do I have 18 any reports from any members of the Court with regards to 19 their committee or liaison assignments? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. I met with Chief 21 Holloway last week in regards to the fire and EMS contract, 22 and it looks as though -- he and I sat down over several hours 23 and tried to work through some things. And I think -- leaving 24 that meeting, I think what he's going to do is appear before 25 the City Council and recommend to them that the fire contract 2-26-07 95 1 will increase a small amount. I couldn't get him to commit a 2 number to me. A small amount. And the ambulance service 3 would not -- let's see, how did that go? I got him basically 4 to agree to what we have been trying to get him to agree to; 5 to increase their fees, and -- by a certain amount that would 6 hold our contribution steady, and hopefully that they would do 7 the same thing next -- I could -- I could -- was sitting down 8 playing with the numbers. I could almost see where ours -- 9 our contribution could possibly be reduced in a year or two. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Did the amount of the increase -- was 11 it as much as we had previously passed a resolution for an 12 increase? I think we passed -- our resolution was for a 13 pretty sizable increase. I don't recall off the top of my 14 head now. Are we talking EMS? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It was Kendall County rates, wasn't 17 it? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it was Kendall County 19 rates. I don't recall, I'm sorry. I just -- we'll find that 20 out Monday. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But he hadn't run it by the 23 City Council or anything at that time, of course, 'cause we 24 brainstormed through it, and I was fairly satisfied, actually. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a good feeling after the 2-26-07 96 1 meeting? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Had a good feeling about it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And going back and looking 5 at -- when we talk about -- this is one thing we cannot 6 forget. When we talk about fire coverage for Kerrville South, 7 that's a very minor part of the coverage. I mean, it goes out 8 north, and there's an entire area out there that they cover 9 under that contract. So, you know, when we get in there and 10 do whatever we're going to do, let's remember that. There's 11 more to it than just this -- the term "Kerrville South." 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be good if we could -- I don't 15 know if that nomenclature exists on any documents, but if it 16 does, if we can get it out of that, because it is a -- it's a 17 big misnomer and confusion. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We definitely have maps 19 that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That are correct. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that we can refer to, that 22 we can see. But I'm real excited about the ambulance issue. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any reason as to the 24 change in opinion? 25 (Commissioner Baldwin made a fist.) 2-26-07 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brute force? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we only said it to them 4 for two years. Maybe it's started to kind of -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe they thought we're right? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe they started realizing 7 what we were saying. You know, I don't know what really 8 turned it on with it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it comes about like 10 you're suggesting it might, we need to give Commissioner 11 Nicholson a big gold star award. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We're almost there, I 13 think. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How about you? You got anything? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I'm surprised Bill didn't 19 bring it up. The airport continues to be -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- controversial. But the most 22 recent good news was that the board authorized to have a 23 retreat of board members only, without City staff, to 24 hopefully at least get the board on close to the same page. 25 And the other interesting news is, the preliminary word is 2-26-07 98 1 that Dr. Davis will not ask to be reappointed, so there will 2 be a vacancy. And that process -- because the City of 3 Kerrville is still rather irritated at the County's way of 4 handling the last vacancy, that there's a process of how we're 5 trying to work out to how the new appointee will come about. 6 And, just basically, Bill and I will sit down with Gene and 7 Chuck Coleman and try to come up with a name, then bring it to 8 the entities, as opposed to each doing it unilaterally. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is one more corollary 10 to that. We're going to do this business plan, Judge, that 11 we've talked about, and at the last meeting we talked about 12 adding some items to the scope of work. And they didn't 13 particularly like my verbiage, so we went back in terms of how 14 we structure this additional scope of work, and I met with the 15 mayor and we came to a compromise, and the language compromise 16 hopefully, in my mind, will be the same thing. But, that 17 said, I reminded the mayor and Guy, who was on board with this 18 point, that our -- our hope was to delay the start and 19 publication of that consulting plan -- is that the term? -- so 20 the other one can get underway. But the mayor doesn't like 21 that idea. That's news to you, too. So, I didn't pick a 22 fight with him then. Might fight with him later. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Still got time to work that out. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's buying? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you buying? 2-26-07 99 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, absolutely not. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? You got anything? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. Let me see, where 4 do I start? I guess the library would be a good place to 5 start. I've been to two Library Board meetings now, and I 6 think the group is fairly close in what they deem the future 7 of the library is going to be. The old building is obsolete, 8 which we've known for a long time, and my recommendation has 9 been that we go forward however we need to go forward with -- 10 with planning for a new building somewhere, in some other 11 location that's accessible, that can be paid for mostly with 12 grants and various things, and that, you know, there's just no 13 point in spending money in that old -- in that building to be 14 used for a library. You can't expand it. You're pretty well 15 out of space for the things that are deemed to be important 16 for library use nowadays. So, I made that pretty emphatic the 17 last couple of times, and I think they're making some headway 18 there. Of course, that's a City -- that would be a City 19 project mostly, but I think that it would be worthwhile when 20 it comes to the County funding portion of it, if it were in a 21 better facility that were more efficient. Electric bill there 22 last month was $4,000. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, Bruce, one of the 24 biggest butt-chewings I've had here was by Fuzzy Swayze. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2-26-07 100 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He was a City Councilman when 2 they built that library, and so his personality went into that 3 thing, and how dare us say words -- negative words towards 4 that library? I got to tell you, man, there comes a time -- 5 and I know the Butts and the Holdsworths and all those 6 families contributed toward that, but there comes a time you 7 got to get past that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. You got to get 9 past it, because right now there are three buildings they're 10 having to staff, basically, which is totally inefficient. The 11 -- the access to that building is -- is horrendous. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's horrible. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, it's down -- lower 14 level, and you can't even unload school kids off buses; you 15 have to stop on the city street, on Water Street to unload 16 children. That's ludicrous. I don't care how you slice it. 17 It's a wonderful old building. It could be used for some 18 other purpose, but not for a library. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was obsolete and 20 inefficient the day they dedicated it. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But, anyway, that's the 24 direction of that one. Animal Control, Eva and I have been 25 meeting with Janie. We've met with her on two different 2-26-07 101 1 occasions, and actually got some paint delivered out there the 2 other day to repaint all the kennels. Supposedly got some 3 other guy doing it, maybe over the weekend. If we don't, 4 she's waiting on community service to send her a couple of 5 painters. If that doesn't work, Bobby Johnson and the 6 trustees. We got, you know, about a threefold plan here, 7 trying to get it painted, make it look right. She got some 8 new office furniture this week from Juvenile Detention Center, 9 which Eva helped clean up all of that deal and get it put in 10 and all that, so it's going to look a little better. 11 Environmental Health, met with them a couple of times. I 12 don't know; we'll see. Right now we're not making a whole lot 13 of progress on some terminology and some direction, but I 14 think we're going to continue to work on it. That ought to be 15 enough for anybody. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the library, is the library 18 district idea totally dead? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Dead. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that one of the topics 21 we're going to be talking about next week with the City? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- has the Library 23 Board come up with any funding ideas? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, not really. They -- they 25 have put down goals and expectations of what the library 2-26-07 102 1 should do in the future, and using the building that is in 2 existence. But the Advisory Board and the head librarian 3 don't necessarily agree on several issues. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, a new revelation. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm not -- I'm not the 6 only member that feels that way. But I do think that, you 7 know, at some point in time, it's going to have to be 8 addressed a different way. I would say it's dead. It may not 9 be completely dead. I'm not sure that the public would vote 10 for it if you did put it out there, but you don't know till 11 you try, I guess. But that'll be something to discuss in our 12 joint meeting next week. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That it? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Other than that, I'll quit. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Quick update on the Treasurer's 16 office downstairs. I've been keeping pretty close contact 17 with Ms. Williams. She's spending a lot of time, putting in a 18 lot of effort. She said she doesn't have time to come to 19 these meetings; she'll stay there and work. She did want me 20 to report to the Court, however, that she appreciates the 21 cooperation that she's getting from everybody. This immediate 22 past week, she's had particular help from Mr. Trolinger, from 23 I.T., helping her with some -- some issues there, and she said 24 that was invaluable assistance. And she's not sure if she 25 would be where she is now without also having his assistance. 2-26-07 103 1 So, she continues to make progress, and just a lot of work. 2 She's starting to see some issues about availability of 3 records. I suggested she maybe start documenting by making a 4 list of what she's missing or can't find, and -- and we'll see 5 if we can't help out in some way. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did she indicate in any way 7 at what point that she may want to hire somebody to help? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: My last discussion with her was that 9 she's still a ways away from that. She wants to feel like 10 she's got her feet on the ground firmly before she starts 11 moving forward in that direction. Earliest possibility may be 12 the middle of next month or sometime after that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? Commissioner Letz 14 made a reference to a point with respect to these issues, 15 about trying to identify, if at all possible, how many more 16 landmines we have out there with the I.R.S. Would it not be 17 possible for the Treasurer and the Auditor to go back and do 18 just an additional audit on when funds were disbursed to the 19 I.R.S. for each quarter, going back a couple years? That way, 20 we might get a little sense of where we have it on the line 21 right now that we don't know about. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think they probably already know 23 that. But what you're suggesting is, if they do have that 24 information available at hand, to just put together a quick 25 summary of it? 2-26-07 104 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They should have it 2 electronically, because it's an electronic transfer from one 3 account to another. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll discuss that with her, see about 5 that. Anything else? 6 MR. EMERSON: One quick comment related to 7 Environmental health. I received a copy of the letter that I 8 guess several of y'all received, and I didn't see anything on 9 there that required action from me, so I dropped it in the 10 file and moved on. So, if I read that wrong, please correct 11 me. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which letter? The letter 13 from -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Letter from Miguel and 15 addressing the Coppertop Cafe question. I don't know where 16 that's headed. I think we need to determine whether Kerr 17 County has liability in that or not. You know, there's -- 18 there's a lot of implications in that one because of -- I'll 19 just give you one example. Actually, what looks to me to be 20 the bottom line, the system was constructed based on some kind 21 of a plan that wound up being substandard. Miguel issued a 22 permit to build, but has never issued a license to operate, 23 and they've been in operation for two years, and they've never 24 been sanctioned for it. There's never been one thing done to 25 them, and Miguel's reason for that is because the designer 2-26-07 105 1 from Comfort has never furnished him with a complete and final 2 drawing of what was built. It is a mess, guys. And I don't 3 know who's at fault totally here. I have suspicions, but I -- 4 you know, how can Kerr County not issue a license to a 5 business that has applied for a permit, have the thing built, 6 and then been allowed to operate for two years without the 7 plans and -- being complete? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couldn't you sanction -- I mean, 9 couldn't you pass a court order that until it's done, that -- 10 that -- wasn't it Seidensticker who did it? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it was Bob Hall. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I didn't know he was 13 licensed. Any way to prevent that installer from doing work 14 in Kerr County until he gets his license? Can we do something 15 like that? 16 MR. EMERSON: I think that's only a piece of the 17 issue. And there's all kinds of rules in place on Health and 18 Safety Code on, you know, what you can do in that particular 19 situation. But we weren't aware of any of it until -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 21 MR. EMERSON: -- a couple weeks ago. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's come to my attention, 23 and, I mean, I've read through most of the documentation that 24 one of my constituents has, and, you know, I just -- I don't 25 know what to do. I mean, I think we're going to have to at 2-26-07 106 1 some point address the issue in some form or fashion. This 2 man basically now has property that has an unlicensed system. 3 It's commercial property. He can't rent the property, because 4 it has a system that's not -- that won't meet standards. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the good thing is that 6 the place is closed down. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Right now. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's closed down. There's 9 two -- still two apartments tied onto the system, which is 10 still an issue. Well, it is -- that's part of the issue too. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the restaurant's closed 12 down, though? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Restaurant's closed down, but 14 it cannot be leased because he would be liable if he leased it 15 without a license to operate. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, it just simply 17 has to be brought up to standards. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the thing is, it sort of 19 has. It hasn't been operated since. It still doesn't -- 20 according to what I've seen from Austin, from T. -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: T.C.E.Q. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- C.E.Q. or whatever it is, 23 that it still meets the standards, even after the upgrade was 24 done to it. And now there's two lawsuits involved. You've 25 got the installers suing the owner and the owner suing the 2-26-07 107 1 installer, so it's got that twist in the thing, too. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the thing is, the place 3 should never have opened for business without the proper 4 authority. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. And it did, and it's 6 been allowed to operate by Kerr County for two years. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And there have been lots of 9 complaints filed, because the system failed three weeks into 10 the process once the restaurant opened. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex has got problems. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Y'all tell me where we go from 14 here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex has some problems to deal 16 with, doesn't he? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to figure out 18 what our exposure is on this thing, and go forward somehow or 19 another. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We stand adjourned. 22 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:16 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 2-26-07 108 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of 9 March, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-26-07