1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, May 14, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 14, 2008 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 5 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 10 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to renew cell phone contract to add additional phone 5 to accommodate new employee & increase usage 12 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action approving two bookshelves as surplus and 7 authorizing the sale of such through eBay 14 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action concerning annual bids for road materials 15 9 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for an 10 extension of preliminary plat of Ranger Park 17 11 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on appeal by J. Nelson Happy of issuance of Kerr County 12 Floodplain Development Permit No. F07-002 to Martin Marietta Materials Southwest, Ltd. 19 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 authorize inclusion of feasibility analysis for regional water and wastewater services for Center 15 Point and Eastern Kerr County in application to Texas Water Development Board for grant funding 16 consideration under EDAP or other grant programs and to other agencies as may be appropriate 45 17 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt 18 a resolution requesting Texas Water Development Board assistance through grant funding for Center 19 Point/Eastern Kerr County Wastewater Collection and Transmission System 89 20 Roll-call vote 134 21 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action establishing policy for bond and/or insurance 22 requirements for County elected officials, department heads, and employees who handle or 23 have access to Kerr County funds 91 24 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve interlocal agreement with Bexar County, 25 as modified by Kerr County Attorney, to participate 3 1 I N D E X May 14, 2008 2 PAGE in Bexar County Regional Public Defender's Office, 3 and authorize County Judge to sign same 95 4 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with Freese and Nichols, Inc., 5 to perform assessments of Flat Rock Lake Dam and Ingram Dam; authorize County Judge to sign same 6 as applicable 98 7 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding a full-time Code Enforcement Officer 8 (Executive Session) 103 9 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding reassignment of an existing Ag Barn 10 employee's duties to include work schedule, work location, and consider appropriate salary related 11 to new duties (Executive Session) 105 12 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding establishing policy and procedures 13 to address methods of collections, deposits, and receipts for events held at the Ag Barn 106 14 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 authorize Road and Bridge Department to close a portion of Old Camp Verde Road from SH-173 to 16 vicinity of Fraser property to provide parking for persons attending the 150th Anniversary of 17 the Camp Verde Store on June 23, 2007 139 18 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding janitorial service agreements 142, 19 166 20 4.1 Pay Bills 147 4.2 Budget Amendments 152 21 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 165 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 23 Assignments 172 24 --- Adjourned 180 25 4 1 On Monday, May 14, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this 9 time and date, Monday, may 14th, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is that 10 time now. Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise? And I 12 invite Pastor David C. Chancellor of the Zion Lutheran Church 13 to deliver our opening invocation, and remain standing for the 14 pledge of allegiance to the flag, please. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 17 any member of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter 18 that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come forward at 19 this time. If you wish to be heard on a listed agenda item, 20 we have some participation forms there at the back of the 21 room. I would ask that you fill one of those out, please. 22 And it's not absolutely essential that you do that, but it 23 helps me to be aware that there's someone that wishes to be 24 heard on that issue. If, for some reason, you wish to be 25 heard on an agenda item for which you've not filled out a 5-14-07 5 1 participation form, get my attention when we get to that item, 2 and I'll see that you're recognized so that you have an 3 opportunity to be heard. But at this time, if there's any 4 member of the audience that wishes to be heard on any matter 5 that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come forward at 6 this time. If you'll give us your name and address when you 7 speak, please. 8 MS. LUTZ: Good morning. My name is Beverly Lutz, 9 and I'm the Transportation Manager for Alamo Regional Transit 10 out of San Antonio. And this is Randy Plummer from -- also 11 with Regional Transit. And we're here to give you a small 12 presentation about a new service that we are doing here in 13 Kerrville, and you have some flyers there. So, good morning, 14 Commissioners and Judges -- Judge. This is a new service that 15 we're starting, and Randy's going to give you a little more 16 information about it. 17 MR. PLUMMER: Good morning, Judge, Commissioners. 18 What we've started recently is a bus service here in 19 Kerrville. I realize that we've had a bus service here. 20 Instead of just being in town, I've been working with 21 Commissioner Williams, and he discussed the desire to have 22 this service extending beyond the city limits of Kerrville and 23 actually out into the county. So, what we've developed is a 24 bus service that runs from the Kerrville Transportation Center 25 at 206 Schreiner Street, will make some stops at H.E.B., into 5-14-07 6 1 Flagstaff, to Walmart, The Meadows, to Heritage Oaks 2 Apartments; we'll go all the way out to Wells Fargo in Ingram. 3 At that point, we will turn around, come back through, make a 4 stop at Guadalupe River R.V., again back to Walmart, into 5 River Oaks Shopping Center, make a stop behind H.E.B.; we'll 6 make a stop at the V.A. Hospital, turn around -- we'll go 7 through Guadalupe Heights Mini-Mart and then turn around at 8 the Center Point Mini-Mart, come back to the V.A. Hospital, 9 make a stop at Schreiner University, and then back to the 10 transportation center. We'll be able to make this route three 11 times a day. We've gone through and done some time schedules 12 on it. You may have seen us running the trolleys in town 13 recently. That's what we've been doing, is just seeing the 14 feasibility of it, if we can -- if we can do it, and it looks 15 like we can make the three different rounds a day. Notice the 16 different departure times and departure locations. You can 17 just read across from -- from the pickup locations and then 18 read down on the departure times. We put east and west, 19 depending on which direction. The cost is $1 per ride, so 20 every time a person gets on the vehicle, it is $1. We hope 21 that this will be a service that we can get the support of the 22 community on. As gas prices continue to increase, we're 23 looking for means of transportation to move people around, 24 maybe ease some of the congestion on our roadways, and so this 25 is something that we feel like may be able to help. It is a 5-14-07 7 1 trial run. We're hoping to -- that it becomes a permanent 2 run. And we'll just see -- see where it goes from there. We 3 actually have had people come up and have had some ridership, 4 so they just see the trolley pull up, and knock on -- come up 5 and knock on the door and say, "Can I ride?" And so we've let 6 them on, and they've been able to make a few runs without any 7 advertising. So, we would appreciate any support on this that 8 y'all can lend us, and getting the word out into the 9 community. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, may I add a comment? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This comes become about 13 because the Texas Department of Transportation, which was the 14 owner of the trolleys, advised AACOG and ART, which is the 15 transportation subsidiary of AACOG, that if we didn't get 16 those trolleys into a greater use than they have been in the 17 past, they were going to go someplace else other than here. 18 And so the staff, working with the Executive Director of 19 AACOG, has worked out a potential use for a route. I believe 20 that an east-to-west route was good -- a good start. And if 21 we can get the kind of publicity we need and the ridership, 22 there's every chance this might be successful. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I -- one other just quick 24 comment. You might consider adding a stop at the courthouse 25 at some point on these, because people need to come here a 5-14-07 8 1 lot. 2 MR. PLUMMER: We -- that's possible. Part the 3 issues that we run into are just locations to stop. But 4 that's -- that's not something that is out of the question. 5 We -- we were trying to find places -- I totally agree, 6 though. We looked at some other places. We would like to get 7 maybe closer to downtown as well. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Randy, you might consider 9 just the corner of 16 and 27. That gives people the 10 courthouse and the hospital. 11 MR. PLUMMER: We can add that in. That's not a 12 problem. I mean, we're right there to make an additional 13 stop; it won't throw our times off any. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then, of course, you 15 have the mall on the other side of the river. I don't know if 16 you've contemplated how to work that. 17 MR. PLUMMER: We've thought about it. At this time, 18 because of the -- the time constraints, we did not put that in 19 yet. We were sort of hoping to see what -- what type of draw 20 we would have. And then -- it doesn't mean that we can't 21 expand into other -- the north/south at some other time. If 22 we can just get the east and west up and running and -- and 23 financially feasible. So, with -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate you coming today. 25 MR. PLUMMER: Well, thank you. 5-14-07 9 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've had people ask me what -- 3 you know, what they're doing, and I don't have a clue. 4 MR. PLUMMER: Well, and right now they're just 5 checking to see if it's even possible to run with the traffic. 6 We've been doing time studies, just to see if they were even 7 able to make it through with what we wore hoping. We had 8 looked -- we hoped to have four runs through town, and it 9 just -- we couldn't do it. The time just didn't allow with 10 the number of hours we have available for the drivers. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe the newspapers will help 12 us out with a little advertising. 13 MR. PLUMMER: If possible, the newspapers, TV, 14 different things here in the community, as well as word of 15 mouth. We would like to -- like to see this happen. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 17 MS. LUTZ: I've leave some extra flyers on the table 18 back here, if that's all right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be sure the press gets them 20 too. Here comes another member of the press; he just missed 21 the presentation. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- is this running 23 today? 24 MR. PLUMMER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, Rusty, do you want to go 5-14-07 10 1 for a ride? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple of dollars. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can skip out of here this 5 morning. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can ditch this meeting. 7 MR. PLUMMER: That would be -- if you would like to 8 ride, it will be coming down the street today. So, yes, sir, 9 please -- please feel free to come jump on. And we -- we will 10 be operating a Monday through Friday schedule, and hopefully 11 the ridership will -- will increase. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Randy. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 15 MR. PLUMMER: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the public that 17 wishes to be heard on any item that is not a listed agenda 18 item? Seeing no one else coming forward, we'll move on. 19 Commissioner Williams, what do you have for us today? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got a lot of things, 21 Judge, but nothing right now. We'll get into it in a few 22 minutes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't have anything 25 special. A few comments at the end of the meeting about 5-14-07 11 1 airport stuff, but nothing right now. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the only comment I 3 really have is, I kind of want to make sure we thank our local 4 TexDOT office for negotiating with the Hunt citizens committee 5 on the Highway 39 and 1340 bridges, and working with the 6 County to help us upgrade seven off-system bridges. And the 7 people that have been mostly involved in that are -- are the 8 District Engineer, David Casteel, and then locally, Mike 9 Coward, Dan -- Don Cranford, and David Henson, and so I think 10 we need to -- I'd like to thank them for everything that 11 they've done working with us. Other than that, nothing at 12 this time. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commission Baldwin? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, just one thing, Judge. 15 Friday, I missed the state track meet -- first time in many, 16 many years -- because I went to San Antonio to watch the Tivy 17 Antlers play baseball. And they were playing -- Tivy has one 18 senior on their team, just a bunch of -- and I mean little, 19 bitty kids. But they were playing the number six -- New 20 Braunfels Canyon, number six in the state, and New Braunfels 21 beat them -- beat us Friday night 10-to-1; it was pretty ugly. 22 But they came back Saturday, and Tivy won the first game, and 23 then the -- the third game Saturday afternoon, New Braunfels 24 beat us by one run. So, it was pretty exciting to see a 25 little young bunch of sophomores and juniors go out and really 5-14-07 12 1 excel. We got a bunch of good kids in Kerrville; we can't say 2 that enough. I think that's about it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As you gentlemen know -- I 4 think I provided information or copies to you last week -- we 5 received the first of two checks on our E.B.A. insurance 6 litigation settlement, and in the sum of just under $135,000. 7 We've got -- we got another 50,000 net coming here fairly 8 quickly to wind that up, and so that we'll have that issue 9 behind us, but I wanted everyone to be aware that we've 10 received those funds. Let's move forward in our agenda. 11 First item on the agenda is consider, discuss, take 12 appropriate action to renew the cell phone contract, add an 13 additional phone to accommodate a new employee, and increase 14 the usage from 800 minutes to 1,200 per month, at a cost of an 15 additional 9.95 a month for the phone added and an additional 16 $20 a month for the increased minutes. This is for the 17 Maintenance Department. Mr. Bollier? 18 MR. BOLLIER: Well, right now we have -- we have a 19 -- if we add it, we'll go -- there will be a total of nine 20 people that are using cell phones, and right now we're only 21 paying for eight, and I need to add one more. Which is -- you 22 know, since I gained Sonny back. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's because of the new 24 employee that was transferred over to your department that you 25 need to have continuing contact with? 5-14-07 13 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have you routinely been 3 running over your current contract minutes? 4 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, we have. In the past three 5 months, we have run over an extra $20. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this increase of minutes 8 per month, you think, will fix that? 9 MR. BOLLIER: I believe so, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If -- if it's going to cost $20 12 a month -- that was one month you ran over was $20? 13 MR. BOLLIER: There's been a couple of months. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple months? Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And he's adding one more user. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 19 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 20 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Bollier, I assume that 5-14-07 14 1 you have money in your own budget to cover this? 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, I do. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Bollier. 5 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to the next item. 7 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action approving two 8 bookshelves surplus and authorizing sale of same through eBay. 9 These are surplus items in your office, Ms. Pieper? 10 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. They have been moved 11 downstairs to the common area, just to get them out of my way. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Those are the two roller -- 13 metal roller devices where the big index books were kept, as I 14 recall? 15 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 20 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question about the eBay. Are 22 we being successful in selling county surplus -- 23 MS. PIEPER: According to Tommy, yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- on eBay? 25 MS. PIEPER: I haven't looked into that, but 5-14-07 15 1 according to Tommy, yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to bring up -- 3 mention that. The Road and Bridge stuff, my understanding is 4 it's been extremely successful, far more than I ever would 5 have dreamt we would have got for some of that junk -- good 6 equipment, I'm sorry. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Previous -- previously used 8 equipment. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 10 MR. ODOM: Excess inventory. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: People are buying it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 13 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 18 to Item 3. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 19 concerning annual bids for road material. Mr. Odom? 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Before you, we have -- we're 21 wishing to go out for bids -- annual bids for road base, cold 22 mix, black base, trap rock, emulsion oil, and corrugated metal 23 pipe, for the bids to be opened Tuesday at 10 a.m., May the 24 29th, 2007, in Commissioners Court. Ask for the Court's 25 permission to go out for these bids. 5-14-07 16 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 5 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. Do we ever do -- we go 7 out for bid on fuel? 8 MR. ODOM: Well, we take bids as we need it. We 9 take about three bids. Truby's here; she can give you a 10 little -- 11 MS. HARDIN: We do informal bidding on every order. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So -- 13 MS. HARDIN: We only have two suppliers in town. We 14 call both suppliers, and it does vary very much. 15 MR. ODOM: Very much. We save anywhere from 20 16 cents or better per gallon by giving these bids out instead of 17 a formal bid. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If -- nevermind. 19 MR. ODOM: It's worked for 16 years that way, and 20 it's been very -- we've held in very well with that. If 21 you're hooked in, you know, it depends. Free market. And 22 it's -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I just... 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comment? All 25 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5-14-07 17 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 5 the next item; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 6 for an extension of the preliminary plat of Ranger Park. 7 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Voelkel sent us a letter; 8 I think it was Friday, or -- or a fax, anyway, and asked to 9 put it on the agenda for Mrs. Cunningham. Mrs. Cunningham is 10 not here. And I understand Mr. Brinkman is -- has been asked 11 to -- to talk for Mrs. Cunningham, but she wishes to have an 12 extension on this Ranger Park, which is about a year ago -- a 13 year ago this month. And for an extension for the preliminary 14 plat to be extended to build that commercial park down there. 15 And since Mr. Voelkel is sick today, he couldn't be here, and 16 asked Harvey to -- to step in. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So Harvey has to carry the 18 load for everybody. 19 MR. ODOM: He has to carry the load. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question, 21 though, Leonard, before you leave. 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about an extension on 24 the preliminary plat. So, a preliminary plat only runs for a 25 certain time period? 5-14-07 18 1 MR. ODOM: For one year. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For one year. And then -- 3 MR. ODOM: If it's not completed, then they would 4 come to the Court and ask for an extension of that 5 preliminary. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if the Court said no on 7 the extension? 8 MR. ODOM: Then they have to go back to a new 9 preliminary. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might be helpful if 12 Mr. Brinkman explained why this extension is necessary. 13 MR. BRINKMAN: Well, I've been before the Court -- 14 the Commissioners -- good morning. Harvey Brinkman, 306 15 Riverhill. I've been before you before on this. The 16 economics of it just changed considerably once we got into the 17 road work, et cetera. We still want to go forward. We did 18 purchase -- personally did purchase land adjacent to Danielle 19 Cunningham's property, which is the preliminary Ranger Park, 20 and our goal is to proceed, but because of the economics of 21 it, we just haven't moved forward yet. So, we ask for this 22 extension. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For a one-year extension? 24 MR. BRINKMAN: Please, yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 5-14-07 19 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 3 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 4 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 9 to Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 10 appeal by J. Nelson Happy of issuance of Kerr County 11 Floodplain Development Permit Number F07-002 to Martin 12 Marietta Materials Southwest, Limited. Commissioner Williams. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The material is in front of 14 you that Mr. Happy provided. He's appealing the issuance of a 15 floodplain order by Road and Bridge Department. In addition 16 to what's in your packet, there's a folder that Mr. Happy 17 prepared. Are you prepared to step us through this, 18 Mr. Happy? 19 MR. HAPPY: Yes, sir. Judge Tinley and members of 20 the Commission, my name is Nelson Happy, and I'm here today, 21 as Commissioner Williams said, to appeal the granting of a 22 permit to develop the floodplain next to my house for the use 23 of a haul road by Martin Marietta Corporation. The County 24 adopted in the year 2000 an order which covers the procedure 25 and factors to be considered in the -- in the determination of 5-14-07 20 1 whether or not to grant such a permit. I'd like to go through 2 a bit of information about Martin Marietta, a bit of 3 information about my property, and then go into the details of 4 what the order provides in terms of what this Commission must 5 consider in determining whether or not to grant a permit, and 6 then, in conclusion, ask this Commission to deny the permit. 7 First of all, a bit about Martin Marietta Corporation. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we looking at the 9 material you gave us today? Or prior? 10 MR. HAPPY: This is actually the white book that I 11 gave you today. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 MR. HAPPY: I think that would just speed the 14 process to refer to that book. And I'm going to the first 15 section of it, which is a bit of information about Martin 16 Marietta. I took this information off their web site. They 17 employ 5,500 people. They have over 300 quarries throughout 18 the United States. Their annual sales are approximately 19 $2 billion. They have earnings from operations of 20 $388 million a year. The second page shows the states that 21 Martin Marietta is operating in, and the next exhibit is the 22 number of quarries that Martin Marietta's operating in the 23 state of Texas. The facility in Center Point is a very small 24 facility for Martin Marietta, but obviously, it's a 25 sophisticated company with enormous financial resources, very 5-14-07 21 1 capable of complying with the law and knowing what the 2 requirements are from an environmental perspective. 3 You can see on Page 6 of the first exhibit what 4 Martin Marietta's operation looks like today and the damage 5 that they've done to the land in our county. You can -- my 6 property is to the -- is in the upper left-hand corner of that 7 photograph. And then I have copies of the salient parts of 8 the lease that Martin Marietta entered into. You notice that 9 this 104-acre tract was leased by Martin Marietta on 10 September 5 of 2002, which is more than two years after this 11 Court adopted its order controlling floodplain development. 12 So, at the time they entered into this lease, they were very 13 familiar with the fact that in order to operate in the 14 floodplain, they would have to get permission from this Court 15 before any action was taken, and they've taken the risk of 16 being permitted or not. But the risk that they took isn't 17 very much, because you can see in Paragraph 12 of their lease, 18 they only pay $1,000 a year for the right to have this lease, 19 so the amount of risk taken by Martin Marietta is rather small 20 compared to a company that does $2 billion a year in sales. 21 In the -- Section Number 2, you'll see a -- on the 22 first page is a map of my property, which is the -- has been 23 named the H.M. Naylor Ranch, and I'll talk a bit about 24 Mr. Naylor in a minute. But if you look at this picture, you 25 can see at the -- on the right-hand side of the yellow 5-14-07 22 1 markings, a kind of a blue area, and that is generally the 2 area that Martin Marietta intends to mine, and where it 3 intends to build this haul road. My property is named the 4 H.M. Naylor Ranch because it was developed by H.M. Naylor in 5 1946. At the time, Mr. Naylor was the -- said to be in the 6 newspaper the richest man in Houston. He was a very 7 successful self-made oil man who had properties all over the 8 world, including California and Texas. He had homes in at 9 least five places, including in Beverly Hills, California. 10 You can see a picture of Mr. Naylor on Page 11. He 11 particularly liked this property because it was so close to 12 the airport, which was developed in 1940. He owned two 13 Lockheed L-12's, and he could just fly in anytime he wanted 14 to, bring his friends from -- oftentimes from Hollywood, and 15 enjoy hunting and fishing in his ranch. At that time, he 16 owned over a section. He had about 700 acres of land. Our 17 property has been reduced to only 100 acres. 18 The area that Martin Marietta intends to mine did 19 belong to Mr. Naylor originally. You see a picture of Mr. 20 Naylor standing by his plane at Lewis Schreiner's Field in 21 1946. Here's a picture of Mr. Naylor and his wife, Mary Ann, 22 who just passed away last year. She was a Kerr County 23 resident until she was well up into her hundreds. They're 24 entertaining Wallace Beery in this picture at their home at 25 the ranch. Clark Gable was a frequent traveler with 5-14-07 23 1 Mr. Naylor to his ranch. Mr. Gable loved the hunting and 2 fishing that Kerr County offered. And many Hollywood 3 celebrities came to our house and stayed in our guest room, 4 enjoying the beautiful climate and nature of Kerr County. 5 Mr. Naylor hired the most well-known and probably 6 one of the leading architects in the state of Texas to design 7 his home here, Charles Dilbeck. The Meadows Museum at SMU 8 recently had a retrospective of the designs and drawings of 9 Mr. Dilbeck, and he is recognized in a number of properties 10 that are on the National Register of Historic Places. I just 11 put in a little -- the front two pages of the flyer that The 12 Meadows Museum published about Mr. Dilbeck. It gives you a 13 little bit of an idea of what it was like. Page 16 is a 14 photograph taken of our house while it was being developed in 15 1946. You can see that they're still putting on the roof, 16 installing the irrigation system, and you can see a truck and 17 other people working busily to finish it up. 18 When it was completed, the entire interior was done 19 by the interior decoration department of one of the leading 20 interior decorators in Los Angeles. The house and contents 21 appeared in Architectural Digest in 1946, and here's one of 22 the pictures of the living room from Architectural Digest. It 23 also has a lot of ironwork that was done by Kerr County's most 24 distinguished ironworker, Erich Riesel. His book, "From Forge 25 and Anvil," has given Mr. Reisel some national prominence in 5-14-07 24 1 terms of what he's done. He did the ironwork at the Mo Ranch, 2 for example. And Page 19 is a couple of illustrations of the 3 work that he did at our ranch. 4 On Page 20, you'll see the determination of 5 eligibility from the Texas Historical Commission of our 6 property for the National Register of Historic Places. It was 7 designated on October 16 of 2006 as -- as being eligible for 8 inclusion in the National Register. It is then entitled to 9 the protections of Section 106 of the National Historic 10 Preservation Act, which includes review of projects such as 11 this prior to approval. On page -- on Divider Number 3, 12 you'll note that on December 21, Martin Marietta applied for 13 the permit to build a haul road through the floodplain area. 14 You'll note that they allude to the so-called FIRM, which is 15 the area that's been designated by FEMA as the floodplain. It 16 was effective July 19, 2000, two years before Martin Marietta 17 leased this property in 2002. So, at the time they leased it, 18 they were very familiar with the fact that they were leasing 19 property in the FIRM and would require a permit before they 20 did anything. 21 They also mentioned that they're planning to build 22 this haul road under the authority of the U.S. Army Corps of 23 Engineers Nationwide Permits, and case law has established 24 that the utilization of any permits from the U.S. Corps of 25 Engineers requires Section 106 review under the National 5-14-07 25 1 Historic Preservation Act, so it is not ripe for this Court 2 to -- to grant a permit at this time, in the absence of 3 Section 106 review. You'll note that they also state that the 4 future mining activities are planned for areas as described as 5 the 100-year floodplain in the current FIRM map. And they are 6 seeking submittals to the National Flood Insurance Program to 7 so-called "correct," unquote, the FIRM map representations. 8 I've been forced to retain a civil engineering firm 9 who is -- we will -- I've already had preliminary meetings 10 with the T.C.E.Q., and we will be meeting with the T.C.E.Q. 11 We'll also be meeting with the Corps of Engineers and FEMA, 12 which must protect Kerr County residents from the -- the 13 interests of private miners against attempting to redefine 14 floodplain jurisdiction. Because if the floodplain is 15 redefined for the interests of the mining companies, it 16 will -- the water is going somewhere. It's either going to be 17 redefined as my property being in the floodplain or somebody 18 else's property being in the floodplain. When I bought my 19 property, it was known what the FIRM provided. We knew what 20 areas of our land were in the floodplain, and certainly we 21 knew the property that is being leased by Martin Marietta. 22 We need -- the public needs protection against the 23 single interests of private developers, whatever kind, and 24 Mr. Odom -- the County needs to be on top of what the plans 25 are of Martin Marietta to attempt to redefine the FIRM. I'm 5-14-07 26 1 only one person. I don't have the resources of a Martin 2 Marietta, and yet I'm being forced to retain civil engineering 3 firms in order to second-guess and prevent this redefinition, 4 which I will do. But the County needs to be involved in this 5 process. I do -- I did include a copy of the FIRM map, which 6 we all have access to and which developers in Kerr County rely 7 on as, in fact, the boundaries of the floodplain, and that is 8 on Page 25. On Page 26 is the -- is a photograph, which is 9 supplied by Martin Marietta, of the area that they intend to 10 mine, and if you can see in the upper left quadrant, they call 11 it the future pit area. Stormwater detained within, and that 12 immediately adjoins my property and my house. And in 13 addition, you can see the amount of -- of where the Martin 14 Marietta quarry is in the -- to the right of the central part 15 of the map. 16 On October 2, Martin Marietta wrote Mr. Odom and 17 acknowledged that there is a small wetland area which occurs 18 in the confluence of Nowlin Hollow drainage and the ditch. 19 The area is not expected to be disturbed at this time, and 20 appropriate U.S. Corps of Engineers permits will be secured 21 prior to any disturbance of this small area. To my knowledge, 22 no application has been filed. It will affect the wetlands. 23 They are protected. Again, it requires review under 106 of 24 the historic -- National Historic Preservation Act. And I put 25 in the front of your materials an EPA publication on the 5-14-07 27 1 importance of wetlands and protecting life and property from 2 flooding. And I can assure you that if Martin Marietta has 3 recognized that there is, in fact, a wetlands area on their 4 property, that it needs complete study before any such 5 destruction of that wetland should occur, and -- and Part 106 6 review. 7 They also point out in their letter that they've 8 reviewed the Texas Historical Commission regulations; no 9 identified historical structures located at or in the vicinity 10 of the site area. However, it was only two weeks later that 11 the state Historical Commission designated the Naylor Ranch as 12 eligible for inclusion in the National Register. So, although 13 this information might have been correct on October 2, it was 14 not correct after the designation. But it's also recognizing 15 that Martin Marietta's fully familiar with the fact that there 16 are protections to properties eligible for the National 17 Register. Then, on Page 30, Mr. Garcia has stated to the -- 18 to Mr. Odom that their existing floodplain development permit, 19 which has expired, they do not plan to renew until flooding 20 events replenish the mined area with gravel. 21 I'm concerned when I read this, because at the 22 present time, Martin Marietta has no permit to operate in the 23 floodplain at any point. And I'm not sure whether Mr. Odom or 24 anyone in the county has gone to the site to determine if 25 they're operating in the floodplain or not. And, in addition, 5-14-07 28 1 I'm concerned by the term, "apply for a renewal." There is no 2 way that you can apply for a renewal of that permit. They 3 would have to start from scratch and reapply for a floodplain 4 permit in the future if they intend to do any additional 5 mining in that particular location. But I think it's 6 incumbent on the County to make sure that the floodplain 7 ordinance is being enforced and that Martin Marietta is, in 8 fact, not operating in the floodplain at all. And, in fact, 9 I've included some publications from the National Flood 10 Insurance Program, which in layman's language describes the 11 necessity for adopting an ordinance, and then the adverse 12 effects that can occur if, in the case of the County, it is 13 not administered and enforced properly. It means that every 14 single person in Kerr County could lose their flood insurance 15 if that order that this Court adopted in the year 2000 is not 16 enforced according to its terms. So, it's a very serious 17 matter; cannot be ignored. And the maintenance of these 18 permits and the granting of the permits requires expertise and 19 careful, detailed compliance with this Court's order. 20 On Section 5, I've just taken out what I think are 21 the key provisions of the order to help the Court. This isn't 22 complete. Of course, the Court has a copy of the entire one, 23 but I just wanted to review these. First of all, you notice 24 that this order was adopted on June 26 in the year 2000. It 25 included the definition of historic structures on Page 6 of 5-14-07 29 1 the order, as preliminary determined -- preliminarily 2 determined by the Secretary of Interior as meeting the 3 requirements for individual listing on the National Register. 4 And that is what has happened with our property. The -- the 5 listing was -- is administered by the Texas Historical 6 Commission, and, in fact, you'll find that -- my earlier part 7 where that designation occurred. 8 Then on Page 8 of the order, which is 37 in the 9 book, the Court orders the development permit shall be 10 required to insure conformance with the provisions of this 11 order. And that means every provision of this order must 12 be -- must be complied with. Section D says Compliance. No 13 land shall hereafter be altered without full compliance with 14 the terms of this order and other applicable regulations. 15 Now, it's easy to say they're just building a small haul road, 16 it's not a major impact, but the importance of it is the 17 procedure that has to be followed. And, in addition, the fact 18 that the creation of a haul road is for the purpose of 19 beginning mining operations. You don't need a haul road if 20 you're not going to haul something. So, even though it may 21 entail a small amount of land, the same rules apply to it and 22 to Martin Marietta as it does to other every other citizen of 23 Kerr County and every other size of land. 24 When I met with the T.C.E.Q. last week, the person 25 there pointed out to me that not even one teaspoon of earth 5-14-07 30 1 can be removed from the floodplain without a permit. So, it's 2 important to remember that although this is a small project, 3 it's the camel getting his nose into the tent, and that the 4 provisions of the order need to be complied with, even though 5 it's a small thing. The -- in Paragraph 4 of Section D, the 6 order says that it's required prior to granting the permit. 7 "Review permits for proposed development to insure that all 8 necessary permits have been obtained from those federal, 9 state, or local government agencies, including Section 404 of 10 the Federal Water Pollution Control Amendments... from which 11 prior approval is required." And in a couple of minutes, I'll 12 get into the areas that prior approval has not been obtained 13 prior to the granting of this permit. 14 On Permit Procedures, which is on Page 11, the court 15 order provides that -- on Paragraph 2, approval or denial of a 16 development permit by Floodplain Administrator shall be based 17 on all of -- all of the provisions of this order and the 18 following relevant factors. It includes, in (d), the 19 compatibility of the proposed use with existing and 20 anticipated development. And in a minute, I'll show you 21 briefly how the use of this property for haul roads and mining 22 is not -- it is not in any sense compatible with the existing 23 uses in Kerr County and the city of Kerrville as they exist 24 today. The availability of alternative locations, not subject 25 to flooding or erosion damage, for the proposed use. There's 5-14-07 31 1 been no investigation of alternative sites in the file, where 2 there's any effort to look for alternatives. 3 And, finally, the relationship of the proposed use 4 to the comprehensive plan for that area. Kerr County does not 5 have a comprehensive plan, but when the Court entered this 6 order, it was not for no reason. There is a comprehensive 7 plan for the airport. There is a plan for the airport 8 industrial park. There are comprehensive plans for the zoning 9 for the city of Kerrville, and this area is in the 10 extraterritorial jurisdiction of the City of Kerrville. And 11 Commissioner Williams is soon to talk about the potential of 12 even increasing the value of this property by bringing in 13 water and sewer, and a comprehensive plan is going to include 14 the area around Center Point in obtaining new water and sewer, 15 so that needs to be taken into account. 16 The appeal procedure as set out in Section D(2), 17 that this Court shall hear and render judgment on appeal only 18 when it is alleged there is error in any requirement, 19 decision, or determination made by the Floodplain 20 Administrator in enforcement or administration of this order. 21 And in my letter to you, I set out the grounds in which I 22 believe there was error in the requirements, decisions, and 23 determinations made by the Floodplain Administrator. And I 24 think it's important that, in my view, that permit is no 25 longer in effect until this Court makes a decision whether to 5-14-07 32 1 give effect to it or not. And the reason is that if Martin 2 Marietta could just go right ahead and complete their project 3 because Mr. Odom gave them a permit while this is on appeal, 4 the appeal here would mean nothing. So, it is in this Court's 5 -- this Court has the jurisdiction to make the decision of 6 whether you should just say no, or require Mr. Odom to wait 7 until all the other agencies that are interested in this have 8 made their decisions, or whether -- of course, another 9 alternate is to go ahead and issue the permit, and then there 10 is a -- an appeals provision to a court of competent 11 jurisdiction from your ultimate decision. 12 Section 6 is discussing a bit about the F.A.A. At 13 the time that Martin Marietta leased this property, as Exhibit 14 B to their lease, they acknowledge an easement to the City of 15 Kerrville and -- and airport restrictions. Now, the easement 16 to the City of Kerrville was granted long before Martin 17 Marietta leased this property for $1,000 a year, and it is the 18 easement with respect to the overflight from the airport. In 19 addition, the airport restrictions are recorded. And this 20 property where they want to build a haul road and ultimately 21 mine is in the flight path and the easement of the airport. 22 The F.A.A. has a real interest in anything that is -- goes on 23 in the flight path of the airport. And Commissioner Williams 24 and Commissioner Letz requested the Airport Manager several 25 months ago to inquire with the F.A.A. about this application. 5-14-07 33 1 I don't know if the airport -- I was present at the meeting. 2 I don't know if the Airport Manager did, in fact, inquire of 3 the F.A.A. or if any response has been received. 4 But I spoke to the F.A.A. and they told me that they 5 did not have any information about this; that they had 6 jurisdiction to determine whether or not anything could be 7 constructed or used in the area, and that they have, in 8 effect, a whole department in the F.A.A. that looks into the 9 desirability of these kinds of uses in the -- in the flight 10 path. And, in fact, they -- they have a division that's 11 involved in Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation 12 Act to make sure that cultural resources are protected in 13 airport flight zones. And although, again, it may seem a 14 small thing, on Sunday afternoon, when I returned home on 15 April 22 from a trip around the hill country looking at 16 wildflowers with my wife, I discovered that Martin Marietta 17 had three large pieces of equipment going as fast as they 18 could on Sunday afternoon at 1:30, starting to dig this road. 19 And the presence of that equipment, the emissions, the -- and 20 the metal involved in those large pieces of equipment running 21 back and forth can and do interfere with radio signals from 22 the airport. 23 The -- for example, the Erich Riesel-designed Lewis 24 Schreiner field sign that used to be over Al Mooney Road had 25 to be taken down because of the potential of reflection from 5-14-07 34 1 that metal into the flight path of the aircraft. Believe me, 2 the three huge pieces of equipment Martin Marietta had running 3 back and forth next to my house are a lot bigger than that 4 sign, and have a lot more deleterious effect potentially on 5 aircraft and radio signals. I'm not an expert in what radio 6 signals in flight path concerns are. The F.A.A. is, and they 7 retain the jurisdiction to make this decision. And at the 8 time that Martin Marietta leased the property, they well knew 9 that this was subject to the airport's easement and subject to 10 the airport's restrictions, which need to be enforced. 11 Another area, Section 106 review. Mr. Odom sought 12 information from the Texas Historical Commission about whether 13 or not these permits would require Section 106 review, and a 14 young woman at the Commission sent him a letter saying it 15 wasn't necessary. They didn't send me a copy of it. Mr. Odom 16 never gave me a copy of it, but nor, in fact, did he ever give 17 me a copy of the permit or tell me that a permit was going to 18 be issued to Martin Marietta. Nor did Martin Marietta. But 19 when I did get a copy of it, I immediately called the U.S. 20 Department of Interior, the Advisory Council on Historic 21 Preservation; I sent them a file. They said that young lady 22 at the Texas Historical Commission was dead wrong; that one -- 23 Section 106 did apply, and that that letter was sent in error. 24 I called F. Lawrence Oaks, who is the State Historic 25 Preservation officer. He conferred with the U.S. Department 5-14-07 35 1 of Interior, and they sent me this letter on May 1st, which 2 you'll see as Number 42, which says that in his opinion, it is 3 not known whether Section 106 is applicable, and that they are 4 currently working with the Advisory Council on Historic 5 Preservation, the Department of Interior, and FEMA to -- in 6 order to determine the extent of Section 106 review. So, the 7 State of Texas, the Texas Historical Commission that has 8 jurisdiction over this project has not approved going forward 9 with it without Section 106 review. It is up in the air. And 10 there will -- there -- I'm told by the Martha Catlin at the 11 Advisory Council on Historic Preservation that the State of 12 Texas will comply with Section 106, and it will require a 13 review. And you'll notice that the most important part of the 14 order, in my opinion, require the -- the consideration of what 15 the uses in the area are and how it fits in with the plan. 16 So, I -- all of us here, I'm sure, are very familiar 17 with the jurisdiction and exactly where the county borders are 18 and where the city of Kerrville is, but I have put in a little 19 map that shows the City of Kerrville's interest in the 20 municipal airport and in the airport commerce park. And those 21 are two areas that adjoin this potential mining area, which 22 are clearly planned, and neither the airport -- the airport 23 commerce park zoning specifically precludes mining, and the 24 covenants and restrictions that every deed issued in that park 25 have also prohibits mining. And, in addition, mining is not 5-14-07 36 1 permitted within the airport boundaries. You can see that on 2 Page 44. The zoning for the airport is actually light 3 manufacturing, not quarrying and mining. So, the areas that 4 we know are, in fact, planned in this area do not include 5 mining or haul roads. 6 On Page 50, you'll see an article by Bill Blackburn 7 that recently appeared talking about the enormous increase in 8 property values in the Center Point-Comfort area along Highway 9 27 because of the plans to build expensive homes and even 10 affordable housing along that corridor. Now, where I live, in 11 our area, there are four large single-family residential 12 developments. As you drive up Highway 27 in Kerr County, 13 you'll see the number of new single-family developments that 14 are occurring. These people do not know that Martin Marietta 15 plans to build a quarry on Highway 27 at the entrance road to 16 the airport. So, the impact that additional quarrying 17 activity can have can be devastating on the property values of 18 people already in good faith planning single-family 19 developments. And, in fact, Commissioner Williams' proposals 20 today about sewer and water are going to be severely affected 21 if the continued mining operations are permitted to go 22 forward. 23 This Court has the discretion to turn down this 24 permit based on the orders pertaining to appropriate uses of 25 this property. And I submit to you that this use is not 5-14-07 37 1 appropriate, and is going to have a very damaging effect on 2 the balance of the property owners in the county. Martin 3 Marietta itself has acknowledged this. On Page 51, from its 4 web page, it says, "Although it is better to be near urban 5 growth areas, increasing land values and local environmental 6 concerns are moving aggregates plants away from these 7 markets." And that's what has to happen, and that is what is 8 happening, and Martin Marietta knows it perfectly well, before 9 they entered into the $1,000-a-year lease on this property. 10 And another example in San Antonio is restrictions that are 11 being placed on the Edwards Aquifer, and I can show you the 12 example here, that the first use restriction -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Happy, what are you asking this 14 Court to do today? 15 MR. HAPPY: Turn down the permit, just that. Very 16 simple, Judge. That it's in your jurisdiction, and I 17 believe -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The permit that was issued in 19 February? 20 MR. HAPPY: Correct. That should either be turned 21 down flat because it's incompatible with the order, or 22 secondly, it should not be considered -- it should be turned 23 down pending the completion of the study by the F.A.A. and 24 under -- and the Texas Historical Commission. Until the 25 County has that input, it is premature to grant the order. 5-14-07 38 1 And that really is, I think, very important that the cart not 2 be put before the horse, and that the -- the regulatory 3 process be allowed to continue. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Happy, your -- seems to me 5 that your appeal is based on the historical designation. 6 MR. HAPPY: In part. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. 8 You take a deep breath and let me talk just for a minute. 9 MR. HAPPY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says in here that -- or at 11 least I read it to say the entire 100 acres of the Naylor 12 Ranch has been determined to be eligible -- 13 MR. HAPPY: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for inclusion in the 15 National Register. And then in this other book you've 16 provided, the Texas Historical Commission says, "We currently 17 have no authority to comment." It -- are you designated or 18 are you not designated? 19 MR. HAPPY: The federal law and even your own order 20 includes properties that are eligible for inclusion in the 21 National Register as protected under Section 106. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 23 MR. HAPPY: So that isn't really germane. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Personally, I think the least 25 that we need to do today is wait on those other agencies to 5-14-07 39 1 see if they have any authority or if they have an answer one 2 way or the other. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on what the -- I'm 4 sorry, Judge. But based on what the County Attorney might 5 say, I -- I tend to agree with you that any -- any continuing 6 activity should be deferred until all this review is 7 completed -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and that information is 10 brought back to this Court. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I was going to mention that 12 I -- our legal adviser is the County Attorney, and there are 13 obviously many legal issues involved here, both state, 14 federal, local. We got the whole mix of it, and we're obliged 15 to rely upon his guidance and his opinions. And it occurs to 16 me that, while an order may have been issued, because of the 17 section that we have here, that we need to get the County 18 Attorney's guidance on these items. But pending that guidance 19 and a decision by this Court based on that guidance, possibly 20 we should suspend or defer, as Commissioner Williams used, the 21 ability of the permittee to continue any operations under that 22 permit until that decision is made. Does that seem like an 23 appropriate -- 24 MR. HAPPY: I think it is, and I'll be happy to sit 25 down with the County Attorney and go through these statutes 5-14-07 40 1 and regulations, fill him in in more detail on what my -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I can frame an 3 order, Judge. I would move that the permit in question, as 4 referenced in Mr. Happy's appeal, be suspended -- or deferred, 5 but "suspended" I think is a better term -- until the County 6 Attorney has had an opportunity to review everything and all 7 other agencies who have any overview have submitted their 8 findings in writing back to this Court. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second, but I have a 10 comment and a modification. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and second as 12 indicated. Any questions? Discussion? Comments? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. I think my preference 14 would be that the permit meet all requirements of our order 15 that was passed in 2000. That's what we're doing. I mean, 16 that is the -- our order refers to state and federal and 17 everything else. I think it just needs to be in full 18 compliance with the court order that we have adopted 19 previously, whatever the date was in 2000, as opposed to 20 leaving it "all other agencies" type thing. I think there 21 needs to be a focus on it. The other point I wanted to make 22 is that I want to make sure that we go through this one time. 23 And I think we need to look at it -- you know, and to me, the 24 issue is, are they going to -- and they need to comply with 25 our court order. Mr. Happy's also brought up a bit about the 5-14-07 41 1 land use -- and that wasn't the term he used; that's how I 2 heard it -- and my view is that we have no authority to get 3 into that issue. The City of Kerrville may have some ability. 4 The airport may have some ability to do it; I don't know. But 5 we -- whether we like or don't like how property is being used 6 is not within our purview of making decisions. So, I just 7 want to make it real clear to Mr. Happy that, you know, I 8 agree with compliance with our court order that we've adopted, 9 but I can't make the jump that we have the ability to deny a 10 permit based on how we think the land should be used, 'cause I 11 don't think that we do have that authority in as broad a 12 range. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We maybe have some concerns 14 about it, but that's within the purview of the City, for 15 example, the ETJ and whatever their land use ordinances are. 16 I would -- I would alter that from all to any that have 17 appropriate review authority. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Per our permit -- per our court 19 order? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As per our court order of 21 2000. 22 MR. SCOGLAND: Could I speak? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Before we get too far, yeah, I was 24 going to indicate that we have a couple of participation forms 25 that have been filed, and I want to recognize those 5-14-07 42 1 individuals and give them an opportunity to be heard. The 2 first one that was tendered to me was by Mr. John Scogland, 3 indicating he's with Martin Marietta Materials. Mr. Scogland, 4 is that you, sir? 5 MR. SCOGLAND: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Please feel forward to come -- feel 7 free to come forward, and -- and please give us your name and 8 address and tell us what's on your mind. 9 MR. SCOGLAND: My name is John Scogland. I'm with 10 Martin Marietta Materials. My office is in San Antonio, 11 IH-10. I'd just like to respond; I'll be very brief. I 12 understand the Commissioners Court's concerns. No one wants 13 to act illegally or unlawfully or in contravention to any law. 14 We don't, and I don't think any other large responsible 15 company operates that way now, either. I understand your 16 desire to get the opinion from the County Attorney. We 17 believe that everything has been done properly, that Mr. Odom 18 acted properly, that he followed all applicable laws and 19 regulations. But we're a responsible citizen, and we agree 20 that if there's a question, it ought to be answered, and we 21 agree that we will stop until that is answered. We hope that 22 that can be done expeditiously. 23 I mean, we're fully prepared to cooperate. We're 24 willing to let anybody come out on our site. We're willing to 25 do anything that we can to expedite this investigation of what 5-14-07 43 1 the law is and what the facts are. Obviously, we don't want 2 to do anything illegal, just to repeat myself for a question. 3 So, I think if we -- if we follow -- if we all follow that 4 approach, you all and the County Attorney will have a good 5 sense of whether the rules have been followed or not. Our 6 only hope is that that can be done relatively quickly, because 7 our operation and our employees are obviously impacted by 8 that, and if everything has been done correctly, as we suspect 9 or we believe, we would like that resolved as soon as we can. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Feel free to provide 11 whatever information, material, citation, briefs, whatever you 12 wish to Mr. Emerson, our County Attorney. Certainly, I -- 13 Mr. Happy indicated he was going to do likewise. You 14 certainly have that privilege to do so also, and I think that 15 will expedite the process by those having an interest in this 16 matter to provide that information to our County Attorney. I 17 think that will make things more helpful. 18 MR. SCOGLAND: We have one other person who -- the 19 engineer that engineered this road, and the substance of his 20 testimony was going to be it has no impact at all, because 21 it's at ground level, so it won't impact the flow of water or 22 anything else. But that's all he will really say. If you 23 would like to hear that, we can call him and have him speak, 24 or if not, we won't take up any more of your time. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Mr. Motheral? 5-14-07 44 1 MR. SCOGLAND: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, he also has filed a 3 participation form, and if you're through with your remarks, 4 I'm going to give him the opportunity to be heard, if he 5 wishes. 6 MR. SCOGLAND: Okay. 7 MR. MOTHERAL: Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate 8 being here this morning. What we did out there is just -- as 9 you have heard, we did not want to adversely affect in any way 10 the -- what might be in the floodplain areas, so we designed 11 that haul road to have -- make no essential change to the 12 ground. Take out the topsoil, put in the material, end up at 13 the same level, so that you do not affect the floodplain, and 14 that's basically what we have designed. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Motheral? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Appreciate your 18 input. Any other questions or discussion on the motion before 19 the Court? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 25 gentlemen. We appreciate your interest. We're a little bit 5-14-07 45 1 past our timed item for 9:30. I apologize for that, but we'll 2 move to that item now. Consider, discuss, and take 3 appropriate action to authorize the inclusion of the 4 feasibility analysis for regional water and wastewater 5 services for Center Point and eastern Kerr County in 6 application to the Texas Water Development Board for grant 7 funding consideration under the Economically Disadvantaged 8 Area Program or other grant programs, and to other agencies as 9 may be appropriate. Commissioner Williams. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. Just a 11 word of background for the benefit of those who are in the 12 audience, and also for the benefit of my colleague, 13 Commissioner Oehler, who was not on the court when this began. 14 We're a good 18 months deep into this project already, in that 15 we -- we began thinking about and planning for a grant 16 application to the Texas Water Development Board to do exactly 17 where we are -- what we're presenting to you today, which is a 18 preliminary engineering and feasibility of a wastewater 19 collection system for the Center Point area. In doing so, I 20 would -- I would recognize that the folks at Tetra Tech did a 21 good bit of that preliminary work pro bono. And at the tail 22 end of that -- of that work, there ended up being an 23 application to the Texas Water Development Board. 24 I believe Commissioners Court funded up to $5,000 to 25 finish that work, all of which then was sent to the Texas 5-14-07 46 1 Water Development Board for its consideration for funding for 2 the purposes of doing this wastewater feasibility study and 3 preliminary engineering. The Court will remember that the 4 Water Development Board granted our application, looked 5 favorably upon it, and agreed to participate with 50 percent 6 funding given to Kerr County for the purpose of this study. 7 The other 50 percent put up by -- as a match by the Upper 8 Guadalupe River Authority, and hence the study. 9 So, with that bit of background in terms of where we 10 are some 18 months later, we have the wastewater -- water and 11 wastewater study, and we're are presenting it to you today, so 12 that if the Court chooses and wishes and pleases, we can go 13 forward. And with that, we'll start with Mr. Groves, who will 14 give us the study, and then we'll follow that with our old 15 friends from the financial end of this, which is Mr. Henderson 16 of R.B.C. Finances, and Tom Spurgeon, who has been our bond 17 counsel for many years. Mr. Groves? 18 MR. GROVES: Thank you, Commissioner. Judge, 19 members of the Court, good morning. Beautiful morning to be 20 in Kerrville. I'm out of San Antonio with Tetra Tech. As a 21 brief aside to that, I've operated Groves and Associates for, 22 oh, 40 years in San Antonio; became part of Tetra Tech about 23 five years ago. We're not new to the area. The -- the 24 proposed sewer collection and treatment system for what we 25 said, Center Point and eastern Kerr County -- next slide 5-14-07 47 1 please. If -- if there is a collection system within the city 2 of Center -- not city of Center Point, community of Center 3 Point, it will serve a lot of -- a lot of purposes. The 4 septic tanks have become a problem for groundwater. They've 5 also become something of a health hazard. They also have 6 required very light density within the city -- or within the 7 community. With the installation of the sewer lines, the 8 density could be increased. The benefits to the community 9 would be significant. So -- go to the next slide, please. 10 What we've shown here is the area -- let me step over here. 11 The -- the area of the -- of the preliminary collection system 12 would be the central part of the community. But the service 13 area would be carried out as shown by this black line, and 14 I'll get into detail on that shortly. All of this -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you have on the screen 16 is also the first map in your handout. 17 MR. GROVES: All of the flow from this area here 18 would come to a lift station, which would be right in this 19 area. Now, that lift station has the ability to either go to 20 Comfort, to have treatment from Comfort, or to pump from here 21 up to Kerrville, have treatment in Kerrville. So, we've 22 analyzed both situations, Kerrville or Comfort. You can go to 23 the next slide, please. The collections system alone within 24 the community is -- preliminary cost estimates, probable cost 25 is $5,588,000. You can go to the next slide, please. The 5-14-07 48 1 first analysis that we made was to go from here to Kerr -- 2 Kerrville for treatment. That was Exhibit A -- Alternate A. 3 The problem with this routing is that that would all be a 4 pressure main going from that lift station all the way back to 5 the airport in Kerrville. Now, a pressure main cannot be tied 6 into for service to other areas. So, -- go to the next slide, 7 please -- the cost estimate for that transmission system is 8 $2,609,500. Now, -- next slide, please -- if you combine both 9 of these, you come up with a total of $10,697,500 for the 10 collection system within the community, and the pumping -- 11 woops, excuse me -- the pumping of that back to Kerrville. 12 Go to the next slide, please. Now, the alternative 13 for that was to come from here down to Comfort with a gravity 14 main, which a gravity line that could be put in there would 15 provide the opportunity to connect all the area between Center 16 Point and Comfort into the system. So, it becomes more of a 17 regional -- regional system, which is what the Water 18 Development Board would prefer. Also, we talked to Comfort 19 about treatment. Their -- their preliminary evaluation of 20 treatment was much more favorable than the evaluation we got 21 from Kerrville. Kerrville would require a meter up where we 22 tied into their system, and they would charge for every -- 23 every 1,000 gallons that went through that meter, and they 24 would charge at one and a half times the rate that's within 25 the city at the present time. Comfort has said that they will 5-14-07 49 1 establish a rate based on water usage, so many dollars per 2 thousand gallons of water used, and that that rate would be 3 applied to the -- to the flow from Comfort. They've also said 4 that they would -- there is a -- there is a connection fee, 5 which both -- both areas would charge, of $750, I believe it 6 was. But Comfort says they would be willing to split that -- 7 this is in council now; it's not anything firm, but they said 8 they would be willing to split that connection fee with the 9 water system that was operating -- sewer system operating in 10 Comfort. So, there were a couple advantages to that. The 11 disadvantage is, it's a lot longer line from Center Point to 12 Comfort. Next slide, please. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Groves? 14 MR. GROVES: Yes? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you get too far, I 16 just want to make clear what I heard you say. So, in order to 17 get it from Center Point to Kerrville, you use pressure? 18 MR. GROVES: Yes, sir, 'cause it's coming uphill. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's uphill. And because 20 of that pressure line, you cannot tie other homes or 21 businesses -- 22 MR. GROVES: No. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- into that? 24 MR. GROVES: You cannot. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But going to Comfort is 5-14-07 50 1 gravity flow, and you can tie in? 2 MR. GROVES: You can tie in. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MR. GROVES: Any of the areas that will drain into 5 it, which is -- if you want to back up -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You threw our operator a 7 curveball here. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's easy to do. 9 MR. GROVES: If you notice the black lines which I 10 talked about there, -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 12 MR. GROVES: -- you can see the extent of that area 13 in here. It would go up to -- basically, up to where the 14 elevation of 1600 is in here. It could go higher for sewer. 15 The 1600 was based on the water, and I'll get into that in 16 just a moment. But, at any rate, there's a significant area 17 of existing homes and future homes -- future development that 18 could be served between Center Point and Comfort. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And one other thing, if you 20 don't mind. The connection between this line and the city of 21 Kerrville requires a meter, and I understand that. 22 MR. GROVES: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they plan on charging 24 time and a half? 25 MR. GROVES: Time and a half, and it -- it's for the 5-14-07 51 1 amount of flow. And that sometimes is significant in sewer, 2 because you have the flow from the -- from the house or the 3 unit. You also have some infiltration, you have some other 4 things. So, if we're metered by the amount of water that goes 5 through there, you're picking up all of the flow. If you're 6 paying so much a thousand for the water that you use, it -- it 7 makes it easier to collect and makes it easier to bill. I 8 don't know exactly how we would bill people on the basis of 9 the flow going into Kerrville. I guess we'd have to take it 10 and redistribute it some way. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The -- I believe by 12 ordinance, the City of Kerrville charges 1.5 times the current 13 in-city rate for any service extended beyond their corporate 14 limits. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much for that 16 explanation. 17 MR. GROVES: Yes, sir. Okay. Go to the next slide, 18 please. The -- the Alternate B -- remember, the collection 19 system is the same for either -- either system. The Alternate 20 B was $4,348,500. 21 (Projector light started flickering.) 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't ask me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think our bulb's fixing to -- 25 MR. GROVES: I'll hurry. 5-14-07 52 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let me reset it. It's punk 3 rock time, Buster. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Keep talking off your thing, 5 Al. Do you need one? 6 MR. GROVES: Yes, please. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's -- where's the I.T. 8 guy when you need him? 9 MR. GROVES: Okay. The -- the significance -- well, 10 there's one more slide that would be significant, anyway. If 11 you take a -- a wastewater system with the Alternate B direct 12 flow to Comfort, the total is 12 million, 365. The -- 13 total -- the total -- what is that? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Total Kerrville? 15 MR. GROVES: Total Kerrville was -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10,609. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ten, six. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ten plus. 19 MR. GROVES: So, it's about $2 million more. But -- 20 that's all right. I think, Sheriff, we've got -- I think 21 we've got enough. You have all of this in this document. You 22 can look at it as you desire. But our recommendation is -- 23 and I think the Water Development Board recommendation would 24 be to go with the connection to Comfort, because they're -- 25 they're real interested in something regional, and this would 5-14-07 53 1 make it truly a regional system. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Groves, while we're 3 here -- because the book contains another element, while we're 4 not going to be the proposer or proponent -- proposer of the 5 water system services, your firm did do a water analysis? 6 MR. GROVES: Yes, sir. I was going to go into that 7 with -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you please? 9 MR. GROVES: And I don't know whether we've got the 10 I.T. back on or not. But -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not yet. 12 MR. GROVES: Not yet. The -- U.G.R.A. was desirous 13 of looking at making this a regional water and wastewater 14 program, and so we've looked at the possibility of developing 15 a water treatment plant in Center Point on the high bank of 16 the river just upstream from the dam, and this would be a 17 water treatment plant that would serve that whole community 18 and have the capacity to be extended outside. There's not a 19 reason to extend it outside of the community at this time, but 20 it would -- it could be extended to anything, you know, in the 21 region. The restrictions -- restriction of the forced main 22 going to Kerrville would not apply to the water, because the 23 water is a pressure, so it could go both ways. It could go to 24 -- towards Kerrville or towards Comfort. 25 The -- the distribution system -- well, I need to 5-14-07 54 1 use the book. Could I borrow yours? Thank you. The -- the 2 lake there would be the source of getting the water, the -- 3 the water treatment system, which would be -- have the 4 capacity of 200,000 gallons per day. The initial -- initial 5 plan would be a $1,750,000 construction cost. The water 6 distribution system within the community would be $1,527,200, 7 so the total construction would -- with planning design and so 8 forth is $4,377,200. And that -- these items in here, if -- 9 if the Water Development Board approves them, and if there's 10 grant money available, would be at probably a 50 percent 11 grant. Planning, design, and acquisition, they'd pay 100 12 percent, but for construction it's 50 percent. And if you -- 13 if you have a finding of -- of health hazard, it can go up 14 from there, so we don't know. 15 But the -- the Water Development Board is accepting 16 applications for the EDAP grant at this time, and they have -- 17 they have a chunk of money, but there's a lot of people after 18 it. So, you have to -- but once they -- once they do put out 19 all of the money that they have at this time, they usually get 20 refunded for some more. We've just completed a big project 21 in -- or are completing $105 million worth of work down in 22 Maverick County, Eagle Pass, which has created a water and 23 regional wastewater program down there that serves 97 percent 24 of the county, so that's been a major improvement. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of other things I wanted 5-14-07 55 1 to bring up a little bit. I see Ray Buck, General Manager of 2 U.G.R.A., is here today. I don't know if he wants to say 3 anything or not about this, but the -- it's not a coincidence 4 this water thing's coming up right now. This goes right in 5 with the -- I think we're all aware of the work that the 6 County and U.G.R.A. has been working -- working with G.B.R.A. 7 on some other issues with the 35,000 acre feet that we have. 8 U.G.R.A. recently had a bill carried by Representative 9 Hilderbran which extended or removed a clause off their 10 permit, which was 2,000 acre feet, plus or minus, right now. 11 And it's become -- you know, it's a -- a fact, I think, that 12 eastern Kerr County has some water issues, groundwater issues. 13 Comfort does. Comfort does. Some of their wells are -- I 14 forget the -- radium? I think there's radium in some of their 15 wells, fairly high. That's causing a problem. Falling Water 16 would be one of the subdivisions in line for that. 17 And getting a water distribution system in eastern 18 Kerr County, I think, is very important. Wastewater as well, 19 but water, being able to piggy-back the two, and they do go 20 hand-in-hand generally from a connection standpoint, and from 21 a distribution system, even though they are separate projects. 22 I think it's very important. And, you know, I think it'll be 23 -- to get that much of eastern Kerr County off of groundwater 24 is good for the entire county and the entire region, going 25 into Bandera and Kendall County as well, much as the city of 5-14-07 56 1 Kerrville is. This is -- population is growing in that area, 2 so I think this is a really worthwhile regional project. I 3 want to -- I want state again the importance of the water side 4 of this equation, because it goes in with -- like with 5 Headwaters, from talking about -- about this area as a 6 potential -- one of the more potential problem areas of the 7 county is the Center Point area, and this solves a lot of 8 that. So, I think that it's -- this is a -- really, a 9 tremendous opportunity to be looking at it, if we can figure 10 out how to pay the bill. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Adding on to what you said, 12 Commissioner, thank you. I see Ray out there, and General 13 Schellhase is out there. If I am correct, you're meeting on 14 the 21st to discuss this water part of this particular 15 proposal, and to discuss the participation of U.G.R.A., as it 16 has with the County in Kerrville South, and see how they can 17 move forward. So, we'll be prepared to meet with them on the 18 21st. I believe you have a board meeting on the 23rd. The 19 same presentation will be available for Upper Guadalupe River 20 Authority people as well. If we don't have any other 21 questions for Al at this point in terms of both the wastewater 22 component and the water component, I think probably what we 23 need to hear next is, how do we get the money? We've got our 24 number-one money guru here, Mr. Henderson, and the guy who 25 keeps him honest, Mr. Spurgeon, so we're going to hear from 5-14-07 57 1 them in terms of how we might proceed going forward with the 2 Texas Water Development Board. 3 Just one other footnote. The way I styled the 4 agenda item was to give the Court the latitude to go in any 5 direction where the pots of money might be. Principally, I 6 think, and primarily, the one we would favor -- the approach 7 we would favor would be the Texas Water Development Board. 8 They have a vested interest thus far in this project. They've 9 expressed interest in this project, and I think that's where 10 we should go first. There are other funds out there in 11 addition to the U.S.D.A.-R.U.S. which we could also examine. 12 There are colonias moneys, which we have used in the past in 13 the Kerrville South project. There are C.D.B.G. block grant 14 dollars available for projects such as this, which we have 15 used in the past, and we would not want to not look at any of 16 those. In fact, we would want to look at any or all of them 17 to help us. With that, Bob, would you pick it up at this 18 point? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question while 20 Bob's on his way up there. Thank you. I heard that it was a 21 4-point-something million dollar project, and that grants 22 available are about 50 percent, so we're talking about coming 23 up with about $2 million? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a little 25 premature, and I think Bob's going to shed some light on that. 5-14-07 58 1 There are scenarios with Water Development Board; they might 2 go as high as 80 percent of the total project. And then, of 3 course, there's the revenue side of the -- the equation. So, 4 I'll -- Bob's going to explain a good bit of that for us right 5 now, Commissioner. Hopefully. 6 MR. HENDERSON: I will. Commissioner, thank you. 7 For the record, my name is Robert Henderson. I'm manager of 8 R.B.G. Capital Markets, and I have had the pleasure and the 9 honor for almost 20 years of assisting Kerr County with its 10 capital financing needs. I've also had the honor and pleasure 11 of working with Mr. Tom Spurgeon of McCall, Parkhurst, and 12 Horton in the same vein. I like to joke that I practice law 13 often without a license, but as Commissioner Williams points 14 out, Mr. Spurgeon helps keep me honest by not being shy in 15 pointing out where I'm wrong. Before I get started, I would 16 like to take a moment to congratulate Commissioner Williams. 17 You know, I do a lot of work -- I've been blessed with about 18 95 financial advisory clients, mostly cities and schools. I 19 have about 15 county government clients. It's very unusual to 20 see a county government take on this type of project, and the 21 reason is that you don't have a school superintendent or a 22 business manager, you don't have a city manager or a director 23 of finance to help marshal all the work that has to be done. 24 So, Kerr County is blessed to have Commissioner Williams go 25 above and beyond the normal role of a county commissioner to 5-14-07 59 1 -- to shepherd this process. So, I think it's great that this 2 has happened this way. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Blessed" might be a little bit 4 strong, but... (Laughter.) 5 MR. HENDERSON: I'll leave that to your discretion. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Commissioner Williams did ask me to 8 provide a disk for our I.T. display. I failed to do that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank goodness. 10 MR. HENDERSON: I guarantee you, the presentation I 11 just handed out will not flicker on you. You'll be able to 12 read it clearly. This is really just kind of a series of 13 bullet points to talk about some of the issues that are 14 pertinent to moving the process forward. On Page 1, I just 15 highlight the four major areas I'm going to discuss; legal 16 issues, financing issues, operational issues, and then a 17 timeline to act. Mr. Spurgeon has done a little bit of 18 research on these issues, and he will be tag-teaming with me 19 and jumping in as is required. Under the -- the subject of 20 legal issues, now, the first question that has to be addressed 21 is who has jurisdiction to act out there? We know that the 22 city of Center Point -- unincorporated, so there is no city 23 government out there. There's an existing W.C. & I.D. 24 However, Mr. Spurgeon, in visiting with T.C.E.Q. -- and I'll 25 let him address it if he feels the need -- has identified that 5-14-07 60 1 W.C. & I.D., but understands that it's defunct. 2 MR. SPURGEON: That apparently seems to be the case. 3 T.C.E.Q. folks said they have -- they're not aware of any 4 activity from them at all. We did find a statute originally 5 passed in '61 and amended in '73. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: '73, I believe. We can 7 either get into it now, combining with what we know, or we can 8 defer later, but you and I both have some information on the 9 topic. 10 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 11 MR. HENDERSON: We know there are existing water 12 systems out in that area that are providing retail water 13 services. I think there are five systems with three 14 independent owners. As Mr. Groves just addressed, though, in 15 his presentation, what the U.G.R.A. would be considering in 16 terms of the water portion of this project is really wholesale 17 distribution to those -- those retail systems. We need to 18 talk about the authority of Kerr County to fund and operate. 19 Kerr County does have the authority, under Local Government 20 Code, to own and operate a sewer system out there. The 21 code -- and, again, this is where I get to practice law 22 without a license. The code seems to indicate that there 23 would be primarily authority to issue revenue bonds. There's 24 a specific prohibition against voter general obligation bonds. 25 It is unclear as to whether or not the County would have the 5-14-07 61 1 authority to issue certificates of obligation. 2 Now, having said that -- well, I tell you what, I'm 3 going to skip to Mr. Baldwin's question in a few moments, 4 because -- because the issue of what the security behind the 5 debt would be does get to the issue of the cost. And, 6 interestingly -- and the grant ratios. And, interestingly, 7 the decision that you make, whether or not you go the gravity 8 line to Comfort or forced main to -- to Kerrville, and then 9 the authority of U.G.R.A. also to fund and operate, and then 10 mainly tax issues. And the only reason I mention tax issues 11 is that, with respect to the U.G.R.A.'s portion of the 12 project, which, because they would be providing wholesale 13 water to privately-owned water distribution systems, there 14 could be an issue of federal tax law as to whether or not any 15 that get issued for that purpose would be tax-exempt or would 16 be borrowed at taxable rates. 17 I've had a conversation with Luis Farias at the 18 Texas Water Development Board, and he has already identified 19 that problem. But he confirmed what I learned just last week 20 with respect to another client, City of Rio Grande City, is 21 that under the Disadvantaged Clean Water -- I'm sorry, 22 Disadvantaged Drinking Water State Revolving Fund program, we 23 were able to get City of Rio Grande City a 4.2 percent 24 interest rate, even on a taxable basis. So, Mr. Buck and I 25 spoke about that very briefly last week. So, even if we do 5-14-07 62 1 end up with a taxable transaction there, it will still be at 2 very, very attractive interest rates, primarily because the 3 federal government, on Clean Water Act, is subsidizing the 4 state's revolving fund program. So, a long, complicated 5 explanation, but we can still get very attractive interest 6 rates there. 7 The next issue, getting to Commissioner Baldwin's 8 question, sources of funds. As Commissioner Williams 9 discussed with respect to the resolution of Texas Water 10 Development Board assistance, we are requesting for the 11 economically distressed areas a program known as EDAP. There 12 are other grants that could be available; O.R.C.A., C.D.B.G., 13 et cetera, and then finally local debt issues. A local debt 14 issue could be supported, and we expect it to be supported by 15 system revenues and potentially local taxes. But, again, I 16 had a conversation with Luis Farias from Water Development 17 Board, and I shared with him an experience I had with Hudspeth 18 County W.C. & I.D. Number 1, as well as the town of Coombs. 19 The EDAP program is a grant-loan program, and how 20 they establish the value, the percentage of grant to loan, in 21 the examples I just cited has to do with what is called the 22 capital cost component of a water structure. In other words, 23 Water Development Board would look at what they deem to be an 24 appropriate sewer rate project as -- sewer rate structure as 25 applies to Kerr County's project, and determine from that 5-14-07 63 1 cost -- say the sewer bill is $10 a month, just to give you an 2 example. They're going to look at that $10 a month and say, 3 "Okay, how much of that is for debt service, and how much of 4 that is for operational cost to run your system?" So, the 5 portion as related to debt service -- let's call it $2 -- 6 that's called the capital cost component. The Water 7 Development Board would actually -- once they've approved the 8 overall project, would actually base the grant and loan ratios 9 on what debt could be serviced from that capital cost 10 component. We know we got 400 water connections out there. 11 If the number were $2 per month, looking at a composite of 12 comparable systems, you'd simply take 200 times 400 times 12, 13 and whatever debt service that figure would support would be 14 how much debt the Water Development Board would expect Kerr 15 County to incur, and they would expect to put up the balance 16 as grant money. 17 What that means, interestingly enough -- and I hate 18 to get too far ahead of myself here, because we haven't made 19 the application to Water Development Board yet, but what that 20 could mean is that if the Water Development Board, as 21 Mr. Groves had indicated is generally their preference, 22 chooses to direct this project -- or to approve this project 23 with the gravity line to Comfort, the additional cost of about 24 $1,735,000 could actually be picked up by the Water 25 Development Board grant, because your capital cost component 5-14-07 64 1 would not change. In other words, there's a very good 2 possibility it wouldn't cost this county a dime extra to take 3 the more expensive Comfort route than it would be to take the 4 Kerr County route. So, we like that. 5 Now, as we skip down to the second part, where it 6 talks about O.R.C.A., C.D.B.G. grants and so forth, we 7 certainly want to be aware of any other grant opportunities, 8 any other funding opportunities that you have. But, again, 9 because of the way the EDAP program works, which is based on 10 local participation through the capital cost component, 11 getting C.D.B.G. grants, interestingly enough, may not provide 12 any additional benefit to the county. In other words, your -- 13 your cost is going to be -- or your loan amount is going to be 14 based on what your capital cost component is times the number 15 of your connections, and you cannot reduce that by going out 16 and getting third-party grants, or even, in fact, making a 17 cash contribution. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question at this point, if 19 you don't mind, Bob. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Assuming that -- if the 22 Water Development Board looked favorably upon the application 23 in its entirety, that would include, then, the components of 24 hooking up the residences and/or the business to the sewer 25 line? 5-14-07 65 1 MR. HENDERSON: Well, no. Those -- that's a cost 2 outside of our -- our project here. There are going to be 3 some costs to hook up people. There are a number of programs 4 through, like you said, the Colonias program, where we could 5 get additional capital -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. HENDERSON: -- to actually hook up the 8 residences to the system. But those grants and programs would 9 be applicable to costs that are not identified in the 12 10 million. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I wanted to hear 12 you say. Thank you. 13 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. So, having said that, 14 now, we want to hold open the possibility, because there is 15 kind of a conflict in the water -- when the Water Development 16 Board acts, they prefer to have a certificate of obligation 17 pledged; that's kind of their default position, which would 18 ostensibly require the security of an ad valorem property tax. 19 I would not anticipate that we would need to do that. As 20 Mr. Spurgeon had pointed out, it's not even clear from the 21 statutes that the County would have the authority to issue 22 C.O.'s for this project. You clearly have the authority to 23 issue revenue bonds. I've discussed that issue with the 24 finance officer at the Water Development Board, and if that's 25 all the County has in terms of authority, I think that's going 5-14-07 66 1 to be acceptable to the Water Development Board. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, do we have the authority 3 to issue C.O.'s on this type of project or do we not? He said 4 both ways. You got -- you got -- he's practicing law now. 5 MR. SPURGEON: But I actually think he is sort of -- 6 he is saying that we're not sure. And I'll tell you the 7 reason why we're not sure, is that the statute under which you 8 have the authority to have a water and sewer system and to 9 finance the system says that you can do so with revenue bonds, 10 but you can't do it with general obligation bonds. Now, the 11 -- of course, the other statute, when you've issued C.O.'s 12 before, that authorizes you to issue certificates of 13 obligation for essentially any -- any public work of the 14 county. This would be considered a public work of the county, 15 and you can pledge ad valorem taxes for that along with a 16 revenue pledge. And, typically, you'd think that would be 17 okay. My concern is that the A.G. -- we have not talked with 18 the A.G. about this yet, but the concern is, because the 19 statute under which your authority to have a sewer system is 20 very specific about not issuing revenue bonds, my concern is 21 the -- 22 MR. HENDERSON: No, not revenue bonds. 23 MR. SPURGEON: Not -- issuing general obligation 24 bonds, even with a vote -- doesn't even say you can even vote 25 on those things. My concern is that the A.G. may say, I'm 5-14-07 67 1 sorry, that your specific statute will trump the C.O. act. 2 I'm not sure how it will come to that, and so his -- his 3 statement about we're just not sure is correct. We really 4 aren't. And we'll proceed to talk with the A.G.'s office 5 about that, see if we can get an answer from them pretty 6 quick. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, C.O.'s, unless otherwise 8 specified, are general obligations backed by county tax 9 revenue. 10 MR. SPURGEON: That's exactly right. Exactly, they 11 are. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It makes sense that they wouldn't 13 allow that. 14 MR. SPURGEON: Right, exactly. You know, that's my 15 concern, because of this other statute. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're approved by this 17 Court's vote without going to the public for approval. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Well, that's correct, but what you 19 do is you give notice of the intent to issue, and you publish 20 that notice of intent in the local newspaper, which gives the 21 public the opportunity to have input should they desire to. 22 But -- but we'll discuss in just a moment the timetable of 23 events for making all this transpire. In our initial 24 application, it would be my recommendation that we style it as 25 straight revenue bonds, and if they require a tax security, 5-14-07 68 1 we're going to -- we're going to make them come back and tell 2 us that, all right? And then it will get them involved in the 3 process of convincing the Attorney General's office whether or 4 not there's authority to do that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see representatives from 6 U.G.R.A. back here, and we're talking now about the County 7 doing it. What about U.G.R.A. doing it? 8 MR. HENDERSON: Doing -- 9 MS. BUCK: That's a question for Walter. 10 MR. SCHELLHASE: Thanks. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a potential for you to 12 operate the system. 13 MR. SCHELLHASE: We have the authority to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have the interest in 15 doing it? 16 MR. SCHELLHASE: We have the interest in doing it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think the 18 application has to come from one group or the other. Isn't 19 that what we determined? 20 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I think we're probably 21 actually looking at two applications, if we're -- we're 22 looking at a sewer project, and this is really the 23 determination of the Court this morning. We're looking at a 24 sewer project which would anticipate submitting an application 25 on behalf of Kerr County for, and then separately, a water 5-14-07 69 1 project, which we would submit under the auspices of 2 U.G.R.A.'s application, so you'd have two different 3 applications for two different projects. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could they -- but if Kerr County 5 and U.G.R.A. could come to an agreement, could that be 6 switched, be all U.G.R.A. in the future? Or once the 7 application is in, is it -- 8 MR. HENDERSON: Well, now we're getting into law and 9 politics. I think, as -- as a legal matter -- again, I like 10 to practice law without a license. As a legal matter, 11 certainly, U.G.R.A. has the authority to undertake both the 12 water project and the sewer project, so they could do both if 13 they wanted to, and we could submit a single application for 14 both sides of the -- of the equation. It would not involve 15 Kerr County at that point, because you can't have one bond 16 issue with two different governmental names on them. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 MR. HENDERSON: So I think, legally, the U.G.R.A. 19 could do the whole thing if they wanted to. I'll let the 20 U.G.R.A. representatives speak to the other issue. 21 MR. SCHELLHASE: What was the other issue? 22 MR. HENDERSON: Political. Do you want to do that? 23 MR. SCHELLHASE: Yeah. U.G.R.A. has -- part of our 24 strategic plan is that we're going to do water, for sure. The 25 County has done the sewer in Kerrville South, which we did 5-14-07 70 1 jointly, and has now been turned over to U.G.R.A. for 2 operational ownership purposes. We don't see any reason the 3 same thing could not be done on the sewer. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then my recollection of 5 Kerrville South is y'all helped fund it; y'all helped -- you 6 helped in the funding as well of the sewer side? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They put up some match 8 money. 9 MR. SCHELLHASE: There's going to be a workshop on 10 next Monday. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's on the table. It's on 12 the table, hopefully, for discussion. Okay. 13 MR. HENDERSON: Well, let me comment, because we had 14 a meeting with the General and Mr. Buck and Commissioner and 15 myself last week. And, again, I've spoken with the Water 16 Development Board since then. My sense of it -- and please 17 don't let me put words in your mouth -- is that the concern 18 about having the sewer project separated from the water 19 project and undertaken by the County has to do with the 20 potentiality that the revenues may not be sufficient to meet 21 the debt service on the debt. Now, since that point in time, 22 in visiting with Mr. Farias at the Water Development Board and 23 reconfirming his position and my previous understanding that 24 the debt portion would be a function of local capital cost 25 component, that could eliminate the issue of whether or not 5-14-07 71 1 there is some subsidy that would be required from U.G.R.A.'s 2 other operational systems or its tax base to support the debt. 3 And -- and that being the case, it may be more palatable to 4 the water -- I mean to the U.G.R.A. to go ahead and do both 5 projects, if -- if that was the collective wisdom of both 6 governmental entities. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a down side for the 8 County submitting it right now, and then working this out 9 later? Or could it be done through interlocal agreements 10 where the County could do it, and -- 11 MR. HENDERSON: Well, when we get to the next page, 12 I talked a little bit about operational issues and interlocal 13 agreements; however, that's not going to answer your question 14 specifically. Probably what I need to do, and I will do 15 before the 21st, is communicate back with Water Development 16 Board and put the question to them, "If Kerr County were to be 17 the sponsor of the application for the sewer project for 18 purposes of our May 30th deadline, could we hand off that 19 application to U.G.R.A. later, or would that require a whole 20 new application, starting the timeline all over again?" I 21 need to put that question to Texas Water Development Board. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henderson, our court reporter 23 needs to take a break here, and we're running past time. I'm 24 advised that this is going to be going on for another 15 25 minutes or so, so I want to give her a break. So, why don't 5-14-07 72 1 we take a recess for about 15 minutes, and we'll come back and 2 resume this matter. I hate to cut you off midstream, but -- 3 MR. HENDERSON: Well, I talk fast, and I have that 4 problem with a lot of court reporters. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That makes her work harder and gets 6 her more tired as you go. So, we'll take about a 15-minute 7 recess. 8 (Recess taken from 10:44 a.m. to 11:05 a.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 11 might. We took a little bit longer break than what we 12 anticipated. I think we had Mr. Henderson, who is 13 sporadically practicing law without a license. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever you're ready, you 15 can speak to it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll go ahead and resume, 17 Mr. Henderson? 18 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. Thank you, Judge. We 19 were just beginning to talk about some of the operational 20 issues. We were discussing just before the break the two 21 aspects of the project, one being sewer, one being water, and 22 from a mechanical standpoint, who might be the sponsor of each 23 as it's currently contemplated. Based on the conversations 24 that I had with Commissioner Williams and representatives of 25 the U.G.R.A. last week, that Kerr County would undertake the 5-14-07 73 1 application for the sewer project, and that U.G.R.A. would be 2 undertaking the application for the water project. What would 3 need to happen in terms of operational issues, of course, 4 first of all, we'd have to treat the effluent. As explained 5 in the presentation from Mr. Groves, we're not talking about a 6 sewer plant, but rather it's a forced main to Kerrville or a 7 gravity flow main to Comfort, to have those entities treat the 8 effluent, so we'd have to have an interlocal agreement to 9 treat the effluent. 10 There would also have to be an interlocal agreement 11 between U.G.R.A. -- and probably interlocal's not the correct 12 legal term, since U.G.R.A. would be dealing with 13 privately-owned water supply corporations, but they'd have to 14 have wholesale water supply contracts with those private 15 distribution systems. There would also have to be probably an 16 interlocal agreement to operate and maintain the system 17 between U.G.R.A. and Kerr County, and what I'm referring to is 18 if the city -- I'm sorry, if Kerr County undertakes the 19 application and constructs the sewer plant, I'm guessing that 20 you're not going to want to actually operate it. You would 21 enter into an interlocal agreement with U.G.R.A. for them to 22 operate and maintain that system. At some point in time, when 23 debt has been released on the sewer system, you could then 24 look at issues pertaining to the ownership of that system, as 25 you did with Kerrville South project. 5-14-07 74 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question, but it's 2 not about financing. This -- you're talking about an 3 interlocal agreement to provide water, for U.G.R.A. to deal 4 with water companies. 5 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what is the difference 7 in that and what they presently have right now? 8 MR. HENDERSON: My understanding -- Mr. Groves is 9 probably a better person to answer this, but my understanding 10 is those privately-owned water systems are primarily getting 11 their water from ground sources, and there is a problem with 12 the quality and the quantity of groundwater being available. 13 So, this project on the water side would be to provide a more 14 consistent and higher quality level of sources of water for 15 those water supply companies. U.G.R.A. would own and operate 16 that system and sell wholesale water to those independently 17 owned systems. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another element, 19 too, Bob -- Commissioner. Probably a third of that community 20 is not served by a public water system right now. You have 21 three C.N.N.'s in the hands of two water companies, two water 22 purveyors, and there is a large area that still has individual 23 wells and are not served by either of those two, so this would 24 give U.G.R.A. not only an opportunity to provide surface 25 water -- treated surface water to the independent operators; 5-14-07 75 1 it would also give U.G.R.A. an opportunity to get a C.N.N. and 2 supply water directly to consumers in the areas that are not 3 served now. It would do something else, too. It would -- if 4 they do what the -- the proposal envisions, which would be a 5 water treatment plant and a stand pipe, they would -- they 6 would have the ability to send water out over a wide area, and 7 what can ultimately happen down -- down the road a piece would 8 be that those systems over there could end up being 9 consolidated with a water supply that would then -- then -- 10 then promote and allow fire suppression, which is always a 11 problem. They rely on our -- on the volunteer fire 12 departments, who work tremendously hard to do their job, but 13 the issue is, in a major fire, they always run out of water. 14 Always. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to get back to the 16 residential usage. So, you're talking about U.G.R.A. getting 17 surface water out of the river, -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- treating it, and then 20 providing it to individual homes. What happens to the present 21 water companies that make a living doing that today? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're going to do 23 two things. They're going to provide water on a wholesale 24 basis to those companies who, in turn, then retail it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 5-14-07 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where the interlocal 3 agreement comes in. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And underserved areas. They 5 can go directly -- they can do both. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry. 7 MR. HENDERSON: That's quite all right. The last 8 bullet point has to do with contract for billing and 9 collection. I'm not going to try to get into all the nuances 10 here, but we understand, I'm sure, that there are provisions 11 under state law that would prevent -- and from an engineering 12 perspective, some practical issues that would prevent you from 13 actually turning off a sewer system. The way that sewer bills 14 are generally enforced is that the purveyors of the water 15 service say, "If you don't pay your sewer bill, we're turning 16 off your water." You can turn off water. You can't turn off 17 sewer. There's going to have to be some agreement with the 18 wholesale -- or the retail distribution water supply companies 19 over there for contracts for billing, because they're really 20 going to be the ones that will have the authority or the 21 leverage to collect. 22 Don't have any real great insight as to how we're 23 going to ultimately go about that. Obviously, if U.G.R.A. 24 enters into wholesale water supply contracts with those retail 25 distribution systems, there's some leverage there to -- to 5-14-07 77 1 require compliance or -- or support with respect to the 2 collection of the sewer bills. There are a number of other 3 issues I didn't bullet point. Commissioner Williams and I 4 were talking about one of them briefly during the break, which 5 has to do with state law requirements to compel connections to 6 sewer systems. There's activity there. There is going to be 7 a number of issues in terms of T.C.E.Q. permits for the -- the 8 sewer services, the C.N.N., and then the C.N.N.'s or the 9 unserved water areas, so there are going to be a lot of 10 different moving parts to this. But the primary thing that we 11 need to do is to -- to move forward with the application so 12 that we can lock up our place in line, if you will, with the 13 Water Development Board in terms of the EDAP moneys, and as 14 Kerr County and U.G.R.A. move forward, we can work out the -- 15 the details of some of these other agreements. Before I get 16 on the timeline, are there any further questions? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Hearing none, I'm going to turn to 19 the last page, which has to do with the timeline to act. 20 Today's the 14th. We've got Commissioners Court meeting, and 21 you're hearing a briefing on the project now. There's a 22 resolution on your agenda that Mr. Spurgeon will address in 23 more detail in just a moment that authorizes the application 24 to the Water Development Board for financial assistance. The 25 U.G.R.A. has a board workshop on the 21st, and then a board 5-14-07 78 1 meeting on the 23rd, and we would hope and expect, at the 2 meeting on the 23rd, that they will likewise pass a resolution 3 authorizing the application to Water Development Board. In 4 visiting with Luis Farias, again, at Water Development Board, 5 when they group these EDAP applications, the moneys available 6 thereunder are on a first-come, first-served basis. 7 Applications are generally due before the first day of the 8 month, or you end up, you know, in a completely different 9 cycle with respect to Water Development Board meetings. 10 So, our goal and expectation would be to file 11 applications by May the 30th for both entities, and that would 12 put us in line for the July 17th Finance Committee meeting at 13 the Texas Water Development Board, and then the full board 14 meeting either that same day or the following day. What's 15 important to note is that this application will be for what 16 they call PAD; Planning, Acquisition, and Design funding. And 17 as was mentioned earlier, once the application has been 18 submitted, then we can go to the Health Department and ask for 19 certification of nuisance, which would hopefully allow us to 20 get a 100 percent grant on this first phase, which, again, is 21 the planning, acquisition, and design phase. Once that has 22 been completed, then we would have to make another application 23 for the actual construction funds. But by having approved the 24 PAD plan, the money is reserved for us, so it's not like 25 they're going to hold out the -- the grant money or the EDAP 5-14-07 79 1 participation allocations until construction application. 2 They'll reserve it now, but we would have to come back and -- 3 and augment our application to include actual construction 4 cost after the design work has been done. So, we would 5 anticipate, if all goes according to Hoyle, Water Development 6 Board approval on July 17th or 18th, and PAD funding possibly 7 as early as September. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- two things, I guess. How 9 -- what are the chances of getting this funded by the Water 10 Development Board? Is this -- I mean, you mentioned -- 11 started out by saying there's limited funds. 12 MR. HENDERSON: Well, there's limited funds in the 13 sense that there's communities all over the state that are 14 applying for this. In visiting with Mr. Groves, and he can 15 probably address it better than I can, there's already, as a 16 function of the work that's been funded by the Water 17 Development Board, been a study of the economic levels of the 18 community. There's sufficient low- to moderate-income housing 19 in that area now that would make us, you know, eligible for 20 EDAP money. We go in on a first-come, first-served basis. I 21 expect, to try to answer your question more precisely, that 22 there's a very good chance of us getting the funding. And I 23 say that because they've already funded the study; they've 24 already confirmed the level of low to moderate income, and 25 we're anticipating being among the first to submit full-blown 5-14-07 80 1 applications, so we think it's good. 2 Now, I will point out that -- and this is true for 3 U.G.R.A. as well -- that by passing this resolution requesting 4 Water Development Board assistance and submitting this 5 application in no way obligates Kerr County or U.G.R.A. to 6 move forward. This just takes us to the next step. By the 7 time that step is completed, we will know fairly well, fairly 8 precisely, what the grant/loan ratios are going to be under 9 the EDAP program, what the capital cost components would be to 10 the citizens that would be utilizing the system out in Center 11 Point and eastern Kerr County area. And the Commissioners 12 Court would then take definitive action to -- if it's so 13 desired, to actually approve the issuance of debt to complete 14 the financing. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the next thing would be, 16 are other resolutions helpful in getting this through Water 17 Development Board, or is it -- as an example, Headwaters, 18 Kendall County, Kendall W C. & I.D. I mean, does it -- do 19 they care about all that stuff? 20 MR. HENDERSON: I don't believe that they do. And, 21 I mean, I will -- I will ask the question, but I will tell 22 you, the Water Development Board is a great state organization 23 to work with. They -- they are probably as nonpolitical as 24 they come in terms of state agencies. You submit a complete 25 application on the deadline, the project's going to be, you 5-14-07 81 1 know, approved or disapproved based on the merits of the 2 project -- program, and the guidelines that Water Development 3 Board sets out. I don't anticipate that -- that supportive 4 resolutions from other governmental entities would have an 5 impact on that at all. But what -- 6 MR. SPURGEON: I'd agree with that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other quick point, Bob, 8 with respect to the timeline. We talk about May 30, getting 9 in line. I think there's another element to that. It was 10 revealed in discussions, I believe, that Mr. Groves and I had 11 had with the Water Development Board, they have some 12 unexpended funds from some project or two that hadn't -- just 13 didn't take wings, and if we're in before June 1, that would 14 be an unsolicited proposal. 15 MR. HENDERSON: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think beginning of June 17 is -- or sometime early in June, they're going to then start 18 soliciting proposals, and so it's important to get in in 19 advance of that, as you say, and get our deli ticket up early. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think a lot of what needs 22 to be discussed with Mr. Spurgeon has to do with either the 23 old W.C. & I.D. or the resolution. And, Judge, we haven't 24 called the resolution; I'm not sure exactly how to do it, but 25 we need to take two actions. First of all would be to -- as 5-14-07 82 1 we had styled this particular one, to move forward. And I 2 would just like to say for the benefit of the Court that we 3 have established a working model with the Upper Guadalupe 4 River Authority in the past, and that is that we were the lead 5 agency to go out and acquire the funding to do a sewer 6 project, and once constructed, we have turned that project 7 over to them through -- for their ownership and operation. 8 And I think, for purposes of wastewater, that's a preferable 9 approach, I believe, leaving it to their devices and their -- 10 their approvals or desire to go forward with water, and 11 hopefully the two can come together at the same time. So -- 12 and I'm hoping that the Court will see it that way and 13 authorize us to proceed under the agenda item as styled, 14 Number 5, to move forward, and I would move approval of that 15 agenda item as styled in front of us. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, boy-dummy question 17 here. Exactly what is -- what is the agenda item? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take appropriate action to 19 authorize the inclusion of this feasibility study, which you 20 saw and you have in front of you, Analysis for Regional 21 Water/Wastewater Services for Center Point, Eastern Kerr 22 County, and an application which has to have all these other 23 elements to Texas Water Development Board for grant funding 24 consideration, grant funding consideration under the 25 Economically Disadvantaged Area Program or any other grant 5-14-07 83 1 programs that might be out there that we could go after. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not -- I mean, 3 obviously, you're going after grant funding. It's not the 4 overall -- the State approving the concept plan or the program 5 itself? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they -- if they look 7 favorably upon us, they will be approving this. Am I correct, 8 Bob? So that we can move forward to the next level -- for 9 funding for the next level of engineering and so forth. 10 MR. HENDERSON: That's correct. If they approve the 11 application, they will be approving the project as presented 12 from an engineering perspective, and providing the funding to 13 take it to the design level. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. Oops, sorry. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you -- go ahead, 17 Judge, I'm sorry. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Questions or comments? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then on May 30th is the 22 date that you present that to -- this actual document to the 23 State? 24 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. That would -- that would 25 be the date that we submit the application to the Texas Water 5-14-07 84 1 Development Board. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or if we have it available 3 on the 28th or 29th, whatever. 4 MR. HENDERSON: My expectation is, quite honestly, 5 to have it prepared by the 23rd. And once the U.G.R.A. Board 6 has taken action and we -- and everything is settled, Kerr 7 County's is probably going to be submitted as early as the 8 23rd, and hopefully we can have U.G.R.A.'s in by the 28th or 9 so. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 30th is kind of an 11 outside date. We hope to be in there before then. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? Any 14 -- anything you wish to offer, Mr. Spurgeon, at this time with 15 regard to the areas of your concern? 16 MR. SPURGEON: Judge, the only thing is there's a 17 formal resolution that's required by Water Development Board 18 when you are requesting their financial assistance, and that's 19 what's -- there's a draft that we have. I've marked it up 20 slightly, just to make it a little more inclusive, as either 21 doing revenue bonds or certificates of obligation, and the 22 C.O. would be secured either with ad valorem taxes and/or 23 revenues. We still have that open question that we talked 24 about before during the meeting. So, I think what you have in 25 front of you is just -- again, the only change I've made is 5-14-07 85 1 just to make reference to the possibility of issuing revenue 2 bonds -- or certificates of obligation, and the C.O.'s would 3 be possibly being secured either with ad valorem taxes and/or 4 revenues. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which paragraph are you 6 talking about? 7 MR. SPURGEON: About the third recital, 8 Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Third recital, okay. 10 MR. SPURGEON: And then I added in a couple places 11 in the fourth recital, reference to revenue bonds. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, under title up above, 13 I have "depressed." It should be "disadvantaged," right? 14 Economically Disadvantaged Area Program. 15 MR. SPURGEON: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not depressed. 17 MR. SPURGEON: Not depressed, right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Disadvantaged. 19 MR. SPURGEON: Exactly. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll change that. We'll 21 redo it. It's on the computer; I can make the changes. 22 MR. SPURGEON: That's fine. But other than that, 23 what you have in front of you is -- is the form of the 24 resolution. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-14-07 86 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The third recital reads, "...be 2 payable from a combination of ad valorem taxes levied within 3 the county with the limit provided by law and from the net 4 revenues generated from the project." 5 MR. SPURGEON: Judge, let me reread that, then, the 6 way I've worded it. "The County intends to finance such 7 improvements (collectively, the Project) in part through the 8 issuance of a series of revenue bonds or certificates of 9 obligation issued by the County in the approximate principal 10 amount of $12,365,000, which will be payable from" -- and this 11 gets a little longer, so I'll give this to the Commissioner -- 12 "payable from net revenues generated from the project (in the 13 case of revenue bonds), or ad valorem taxes levied within the 14 county with the limit provided by law, and/or from the net 15 revenues generated from the project (in the case of 16 certificates of obligation)." We have just a little bit 17 different security between those two. And the fourth recital 18 would read, "The County intends to issue such series of 19 revenue bonds or certificates of obligation and deliver such 20 bonds or certificates to the Texas Water Development Board to 21 finance the project." And everything else is the same. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Your motion, Commissioner, does it 23 incorporate those particular changes in the resolution that's 24 before the Court? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Judge, my motion deals 5-14-07 87 1 with Item Number 5, and then we'll come back, and the next 2 item is the resolution. Unless you call them both at the same 3 time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MR. SPURGEON: I apologize; I came too early. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Your motion deals with the -- with 8 the application as stated, then? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further -- any further questions 11 or comments on the motion that's pending? All in favor -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm trying to figure out how 15 to say it. I understand revenue bonds. Certificates of 16 obligation, how much -- by adopting this resolution, how firm 17 is this as far as committing this County? Let's say -- let's 18 say that revenue bonds, for one reason or another, didn't work 19 out. Then are we -- are we firm and concrete that we're going 20 to issue C.O.'s? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: There's no commitment on behalf of 22 the County by any of the actions we take with regard to this 23 issue today. The issue of C.O.'s, according to my 24 understanding from Mr. Spurgeon, is we don't know whether 25 those are even permissible -- 5-14-07 88 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- financing methods or not. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my question is, let's 4 pretend that the A.G. comes back and say yes, they can -- they 5 do have that authority. Then are we locked in? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is -- this is just an 8 application. Once -- we have to find -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gets us to the next step. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, to the next step. If the 11 application is approved by Water Development Board -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got a couple more cracks 13 at it before we get to that point. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted y'all to say 15 that on the record. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You're getting a little picky in your 21 older age. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's that darn sugar. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 24 comments? All in favor of the motion before the Court, 25 signify by raising your right hand. 5-14-07 89 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let me call 5 Item 6 now, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take 6 appropriate action to adopt a resolution requesting Texas 7 Water Development Board assistance through grant funding for 8 the Center Point-slash-Eastern Kerr County wastewater 9 collection and transmission system. Now we're to the 10 resolution. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are to the resolution, 12 and I'm asking Tom to come back up, just so everybody 13 understands what the changes will be, and that we're not 14 making any commitment for ad valorem taxes today. 15 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're including it in a 17 recital, but there's no commitment to issue any C.O.'s. 18 MR. SPURGEON: That's exactly right. As I think Bob 19 mentioned, the application sounds like you're going to 20 probably submit the application as if you're going to issue 21 revenue bonds. But if that comes back and where the Water 22 Development Board is looking for more, needs more, I think 23 this action would allow you to change that application to do 24 that, clearly understanding Commissioner Baldwin's concern 25 about whether the County's committed or not. County's not 5-14-07 90 1 committed to be issuing certificates of obligation; obviously, 2 that's something that will come back. But it just, I think, 3 would give flexibility to take some action if you had to in 4 between. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move the resolution 6 as amended by counsel. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For submission with the 9 application to Water Development Board. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 11 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion also carries. Thank you, 17 gentlemen. As always, we appreciate your assistance. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me have your marked up 19 copy, Tom. 20 MR. SPURGEON: You bet. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we'll get it corrected 22 and back in front of the Court for signature. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bless you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank both of you again for your help 25 over the years to Kerr County. We appreciate that. You've 5-14-07 91 1 been of great benefit to us. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Henderson? Bless you. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Al, thank you. We'll be in 4 touch on -- on the next presentation to U.G.R.A. and where we 5 go from there. 6 MR. GROVES: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on with Item 8; consider, 8 discuss, and take appropriate action to establish policy for 9 bond and/or insurance requirements for County elected 10 officials, department heads, and employees who handle or have 11 access to Kerr County funds. This was an item that was placed 12 upon the agenda earlier, and there was some discussion, but 13 nothing got moved forward from it. My sense of it is -- is 14 that we need to take a look and see what we can obtain in 15 the -- in the matter of -- of blanket insurance, E & O type 16 coverage for all employees, and see what kind of coverage is 17 available there. And it would appear that it would be 18 appropriate for the H.R. Director to investigate what's 19 available in that respect and bring it back to the Court, and 20 then we'll take a look at it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we had done that, 22 but that's a great idea. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There has been some discussion about 24 it, but apparently it never got moved forward on this basis, 25 Commissioner. But try it now, I guess. 5-14-07 92 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We do have a lot of employees 2 that handle money that they're not elected officials or 3 department heads. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a really good 6 idea. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. Do you need a 8 court order? Is that -- you're wanting -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Direction, I would think, to the H.R. 10 Director at this point would be -- would be adequate, if 11 that's the sense of the Court. And that's what I'm hearing. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the issue of -- on bonds, we 13 did go through, and all the bonds were at the maximum level as 14 allowed by state law, correct? I mean, that portion of this 15 agenda item we did take care of. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We took care of making sure that the 17 bonds for elected officials, as required by statute, were as 18 required by state law. And, as I recall, in at least three 19 cases we made some adjustments to make sure that we were in 20 conformity. I think it's mainly the -- when we get outside of 21 the official bonds is where we -- where we need to move 22 forward and take a look at it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, just sounds like what 25 we're doing is -- is saying we'd like to have a policy drafted 5-14-07 93 1 for our consideration on this topic. Is that correct? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: My sense of it, Commissioner, is 3 that -- that we see what we can get in the way of coverage 4 that's available to us for employees who handle county funds, 5 to have one policy to cover all of those employees, as opposed 6 to having individual policies for individual employees, 7 deputies, assistants and so forth. Now, there's some 8 requirements under the law; for example, the County Clerk is 9 required to have certain bonding or insurance coverage on some 10 of her employees. Same is true of the District Clerk, I 11 believe, and of the Tax Assessor, those fee offices. But that 12 doesn't cover everybody who handles Kerr County funds, and I'm 13 trying to get coverage for everybody. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I understand, and I'm on 15 board. I guess I was misinterpreting the word "policy" there, 16 so I'm on -- I'm with it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I think Tommy has a 18 question. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I would like to be able to explore 21 through -- through an insurance provider the -- maybe the 22 possibility of having bonding for everybody, because there's 23 -- there's as much risk in employees that have access to 24 assets as much as there is to -- to money. So I think 25 there -- there might be a need to bond -- for instance, 5-14-07 94 1 there's people at Road and Bridge that never handle money, but 2 they have access to a lot of assets, and so I think there's as 3 much risk with that as there is with currency, money. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Regular E & O or fidelity coverage 5 generally? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Just explore the possibility 7 and see how much it would cost. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what -- that's all we're doing 9 now is gathering information, and I see -- see no harm in 10 that, of course. That's outside the agenda item, but we're 11 taking no formal action, so it makes no difference. Anything 12 else by any member of the Court on this? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you not want to -- I 14 thought we had done this already once, and we did not, because 15 we didn't do a court order. So we can't come back a month 16 later -- and if we do a court order today, we can't come back 17 a month later and say, "Well, this thing just didn't move 18 forward." 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that we need to have 21 a court order suggesting -- or I move that we direct the 22 County Auditor and the H.R. Department to come back to us with 23 a recommendation on -- what was Tommy's issue? -- folks that 24 just handle assets, and folks that handle county money; come 25 back with a recommendation to Commissioners Court at their 5-14-07 95 1 earliest convenience. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think part of that is outside of 3 the agenda item, when you talk about the assets. No assets. 4 You talk about assets as opposed to funds. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Tommy, you don't 6 get to do it this time. All right, take the assets -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- part out. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 11 question or discussion? I suppose if he wants to voluntarily 12 do it, he can, though, right? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I would think. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All in favor of the motion, 15 signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move to 20 Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 21 approve interlocal agreement of with Bexar County, as modified 22 by the Kerr County Attorney, to participate in the Bexar 23 County Regional Public Defender's Office, and authorize the 24 County Judge to sign same. That is the appellate public 25 defender that -- and the major obstacle was the expenses that 5-14-07 96 1 would be incurred. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They would determine how much 3 that would be. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Costs of investigators, translators, 5 or any other collateral costs must be absorbed by participant. 6 The County Attorney suggested that we include the language, 7 "subject to approval of the assigning judge." That -- that 8 addition has been made in the contract. There were some other 9 concerns, I believe, that the County Attorney had, but weren't 10 such that there should be modifications or whatever, and those 11 were discussed earlier. Am I correct on that, Mr. Emerson? 12 MR. EMERSON: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So -- so, with that one 14 addition, subject to the approval of the assigning judge on 15 additional costs, you're okay with it? 16 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval of the 19 interlocal agreement with Bexar County, as modified by Kerr 20 County Attorney, to participate in the Bexar County Regional 21 Public Defender's Office, and authorize County Judge to sign 22 same. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second it. Let me -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Questions 25 or discussion? 5-14-07 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- is this like an 2 annual contract, or what is the time frame on this? 3 MR. EMERSON: This is an initial grant program. 4 That's -- I think the initial time frame is a year and a half, 5 where they receive grant funding to regionalize the appellate 6 process in order to, A, save money for all -- all of the 7 cooperating counties, and B, provide a better appellate 8 procedure to indigent defendants. The only continuing 9 obligation of the County is the County's obligated for one 10 year beyond the end of that grant period to finish up the 11 projects that are already started. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. It just seems like a 13 great project. I mean, I think it's a super idea. But, you 14 know, I don't want to get locked into it forever and ever, and 15 the State of Texas gets involved in it, and it turns into 16 maybe something we would put in your sewer pipe heading down 17 to Comfort. 18 MR. EMERSON: The only cases that would be brought 19 into this grant program would be the ones assigned by the 20 judge. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This judge? 22 MR. EMERSON: No, the assigning District Judges or 23 County Court at Law Judge. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And when they talk about 25 "assigning judge," you're talking about on our end? Or in 5-14-07 98 1 Bexar County? 2 MR. EMERSON: Our end. Judge Ables, Judge Prohl, 3 Judge Brown. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge Prohl's are actually through 5 the -- through the Midland -- 6 MR. EMERSON: Judge Prohl's other four counties are 7 through Midland. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 9 MR. EMERSON: Kerr County would be part of the 10 Region 4 program. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's right, this is Fourth 12 Court. Okay. Any other questions or comments? All in favor 13 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 18 Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 19 approve contract with Freese-Nichols, Inc., to perform 20 assessments of Flat Rock Lake Dam and Ingram Dam, and 21 authorize County Judge to sign same as applicable. Do we have 22 the problems resolved, Mr. County Attorney? 23 MR. EMERSON: The answer would be I don't know. 24 They -- they corrected the initial contract, or they made some 25 adjustments. It came down. I scribbled a couple post-its, I 5-14-07 99 1 think mostly relative to the indemnity clauses, and kicked it 2 back upstairs two or three weeks ago. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, Mr. Schuster's here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Refresh my memory on what the 5 problem was. There was a time frame. We pay "X" amount of 6 dollars for a couple of days, and after that, they're going to 7 charge us more or something? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there was -- in the 9 event it went over the time frame, there might be some 10 additional charges, and we wanted it to be a fixed contract 11 that was less than the $25,000 state law threshold, period. 12 And -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did they agree to that or 14 not? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have an agreement, 16 Mr. Schuster? 17 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, sir, we sure do. The -- the 18 contract included a provision from the subcontractor that in 19 the event that they went over three days with the assessment 20 on the cap, that there would be a $4,000 charge per day for 21 that additional charge. We kicked the contract out for the 22 same reason once we saw the subcontract. We obviously didn't 23 want to cover that liability. When you guys rejected the 24 contract for the reasons that the Commissioners stated, we 25 went back and talked to the vendor and made them sign a 5-14-07 100 1 lump-sum contract for the agreement to only do the three days 2 worth of work. We'll make sure that the schedule's assessed 3 to where they are able to do that assessment. We talked to 4 them on several occasions that they can do that in three days. 5 We're confident that we can do it, so we resubmitted the 6 contract without the $4,000 per day. They will do that in 7 three days. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the total amount of the 9 contract? 10 MR. SCHUSTER: Is 24,600. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think the only other issues 12 were with the indemnity provisions, being the standard 13 qualifying language, "to the extent provided by law." And 14 we're obliged under all circumstances to do that, and I 15 assume -- 16 MR. SCHUSTER: And I'm confident we can come to an 17 agreement on that. I don't see any issues with that at all. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 19 contract as submitted. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I second it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Once it's submitted to the 23 proper authority for signature. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and -- I'm sorry? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The County Judge. 5-14-07 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For his signature. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 4 indicated. Any question or discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I wanted to ask -- I'm 6 going to ask Number 4 down there what he just said. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What I just said? Once that 8 contract is submitted as amended to the County Judge to sign. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we haven't -- we're 10 voting on a contract that we haven't seen. We're just -- this 11 gentleman is standing up here telling us what's in it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the County Attorney's -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge has it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you are signing off on 15 it? 16 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, good. 18 MR. EMERSON: As long as we modify the indemnity 19 clause. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the motion will be to 21 authorize County Judge to sign same. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 24 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-14-07 102 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 4 MR. SCHUSTER: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for waiting 6 through all the -- 7 MR. SCHUSTER: No problem. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What were you going to say, 9 Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I was just -- somewhere, 11 we need to get the -- I guess need to make sure the copy 12 gets -- that we voted on gets attached to the agenda. I mean, 13 we need to make sure these post-its get memorialized somewhere 14 into a document that we have, with our agenda. I mean, what 15 we approved. I guess it will be known when the Judge signs 16 it. I doubt he's going to sign it with post-its all over it. 17 At the moment, I don't see a document. Somewhere, it needs to 18 get into the file. That's all my comment is. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You didn't see it 'cause 20 it's in his packet. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't look at me. I didn't 22 put it on the agenda. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't put it on the 24 agenda either. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't have copies in your -- 5-14-07 103 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, I didn't, nothing with 2 the yellow post-its all over it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why the questions 4 were being asked, Judge. We didn't have copies of it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Well, I apologize for 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a little bit late for 8 that, pal. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You weren't -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, then I'm not apologizing, then. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take it back. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You weren't blessed. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What did you vote on it for? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause Bruce assured me that 16 it was okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Are we ready to move to 19 Item 12? -- 11, excuse me. Item 11; consider, discuss, take 20 appropriate action regarding a full-time Code Enforcement 21 officer. Commissioner Oehler, are you ready for this? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I believe I am, 23 somewhat. This is mostly for discussion. It's not 24 necessarily to take action too much, but we may need to 25 discuss some of these things in executive session, 'cause it 5-14-07 104 1 does involve some personnel, and maybe some things related to 2 personal statements being made about certain people that I 3 don't think are appropriate in open session. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would agree with that, 5 Commissioner. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have other items to go 7 to exec later? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, we got one other. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we just include it 10 there? Let's skip it now. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything you want to offer in the 12 open or public session at this time? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing more than what the 14 agenda item says. Just take appropriate action regarding 15 full-time Code Enforcement officer. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And there's a lot to it, and I 18 think it's going to take more than one meeting, I think, to 19 settle on this issue. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this a preliminary budget 23 discussion on -- I mean, on the personnel side of it? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5-14-07 105 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will be some -- some 2 discussion. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some personnel? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some personnel. And that's 5 just about all I'm going to say about it right now. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I just wanted to make 7 sure we weren't trying to -- thinking of changing personnel 8 mid-budget. As long as we're talking about next year's budget 9 primarily. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can be talking about 11 both -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- of those issues. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But as far as -- far as we 16 have a part-time person now, if we wanted to move to a 17 full-time person, that would be a budgeting -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- issue. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further to offer with 22 regard to that particular item? Let me go ahead and call Item 23 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 24 reassignment of an existing Ag Barn employee's duties to 25 include work schedule, work location, and consider appropriate 5-14-07 106 1 salary related to new duties, with a notation, "Executive 2 Session." 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything you wish to offer with 5 respect to that item in open session, Mr. Oehler? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Anybody else have 8 anything to offer? All right, we'll move forward to Item 13. 9 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 10 establishing policy and procedures to address methods of 11 collections, deposits, and receipts for events held at the Ag 12 Barn. Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. Ms. Hyde has been 14 working on this. She and I have worked together. She put 15 together several things which I think she would have to pass 16 out to us regarding one of our many problems of handling money 17 and collecting money and making sure it gets deposited in the 18 proper place. And I'll let her pass out her stuff, and we'll 19 discuss it. This basically is going to -- this is all up for 20 discussion, and if you have some better ideas on it, we'd like 21 to hear them. But this is kind of a preliminary of -- let's 22 get some real procedures in place of how things are done at 23 the Ag Barn. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there any -- any 25 preliminary we need to know about as to why we're at this 5-14-07 107 1 point? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, mainly because we're -- 3 everything seems to be fairly loose. And even the forms that 4 they're using to book the events and then make reports and 5 turn in moneys to the appropriate place, which would be the 6 County Treasurer, are kind of antiquated. And it's just -- it 7 never has really been a policy. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good enough answer 11 right there. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With the recent passel of 13 problems that we've had, it's time, I think, to establish some 14 policy. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just to add a little bit, I 16 think this -- it's just our continued looking right now at all 17 departments into handling money, and this is just another part 18 of it. And there are definitely some -- the money was not 19 being tracked as it should have been. And there's also a 20 possibility of -- I mean, there's no ideas of anything that 21 has been done wrong, other than -- you know, from what I -- a 22 stealing standpoint. No indication of any of that, but it's 23 just that it wasn't being deposited necessarily timely, and it 24 wasn't -- just -- there were no procedures. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just no procedures. 5-14-07 108 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just needs to be tightened up. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, are you going to 4 address also the fees? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, we're going to do that 6 next meeting. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much we're going to 8 charge for a chair and arenas and -- okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's going to come on the 10 next meeting. This is kind of the first step in getting -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- getting started with the 13 procedures that need to be followed, and then all that I think 14 will come back with a recommendation next meeting. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the issues you're addressing 16 would also include the Union Church, I assume? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does both. Correct, Ms. Hyde? 20 MS. HYDE: We just -- we just started with the Ag 21 Barn itself, because we figured there would be discussion. 22 And we worked with Mindy, our Treasurer, as well, because she 23 needs something that she can cross-validate. So these forms, 24 the two forms that are attached, are both in Excel. We can 25 lock the cells. It makes it real simple; you just key entry 5-14-07 109 1 on the computer the information, and then it can be sent over 2 electronically to Mindy, and she can put it in a logbook so 3 that we can begin logging some of the events. And then it 4 will also help with budgeting in the future, so that we know 5 how many events we're having, how much we receive, and how 6 much it costs. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were you going to go down -- 8 MS. HYDE: You want me to read it? Sorry. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your numbers are off. 10 MS. HYDE: They are off? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where? 12 MS. HYDE: You would find that one. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Well, when you get to 14 Number 4, you'll see it. 15 MS. HYDE: The customer -- the customer would call 16 and book the facility. The booking agent utilizes the event 17 information form to capture event information requirements. 18 The booking agent completes the HCYEC reservation form to 19 calculate costs. The booking agent reviews with the customer 20 that the intent to reserve form must be signed within five 21 working days or the date will not be held. And there's where 22 the numbers start ganging up, so I apologize. Booking agent 23 then reviews with the customer that 50 percent of the balance 24 must be paid within five days of the receipt of the contract 25 or the date will not be held. 5-14-07 110 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. We're not talking about 2 just the use of the facility form; this is also all of the 3 other additional costs for additional items needed and so 4 forth, a 50 percent deposit of everything that's calculated on 5 that information form? 6 MS. HYDE: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 8 MS. HYDE: So, do I need to include -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 10 MS. HYDE: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, question. Form 12 must be signed within five working days of the date or the 13 date will not be held. Is this brand-new? 14 MS. HYDE: No, sir, this is coming -- this is coming 15 out of our leasing agreement. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MS. HYDE: And the County Attorney is also working 18 on updating our leasing agreement for presenting to you all -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MS. HYDE: -- at the next meeting. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I went out to rent the 22 thing today, it would say that? 23 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva, before you move too far 5-14-07 111 1 ahead, Number 3, we're talking about the booking agent 2 completes the form to calculate costs. My question goes to 3 costs. I don't see it in the sheet. That's the reason I'm 4 asking. 5 MS. HYDE: On the reservation form? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The next page, yeah, on 7 costs. What I don't see is how the booking agent would 8 calculate, for example, costs to set up the arena, the use of 9 the Bobcat, moving dirt in and out, cost of the machinery, 10 cost of the operator, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 11 MS. HYDE: That's right. That's part of this. 12 That's what we're talking about. We don't have -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have it. 14 MS. HYDE: -- numbers for that, so all we're showing 15 at this point, this is what we have. This is what our 16 contract says. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the existing form? 18 MS. HYDE: It's very similar. I've just put it into 19 Excel. And so -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, Page 12, then, is what 21 we do now? 22 MS. HYDE: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Let's move on. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask my dumb question? 25 MS. HYDE: You have no dumb questions. 5-14-07 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. This form is what 2 we have now? 3 MS. HYDE: Currently. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do these 10 items -- are they 5 what we have now? 6 MS. HYDE: Sort of. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay, that explains 8 it all. I'm very clear. 9 MS. HYDE: We're not to the part where it changes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. You're going to let us 11 know? 12 MS. HYDE: I'm going to tell you exactly where it 13 changes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm looking for. 15 MR. EMERSON: If I'm not mistaken, I think the 16 Court, about a year and a half, maybe two years ago, when 17 Glenn was still here, instructed Glenn and Alyce to make these 18 procedural changes as far as having to respond within a 19 certain number of days. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MR. EMERSON: I don't remember the exact date, but I 22 know it was about a year and a half, two years ago. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Our current policy that we -- that we 25 adopted here a couple or so years ago. 5-14-07 113 1 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 2 MS. HYDE: And I just don't think it was ever 3 written down for people to follow. The booking agent reviews 4 with the customer that intends to reserve that form must be 5 signed within five days. The next one, where they get the 6 50 percent of the balance due within five days, that would be 7 the same date. By the time they come in and sign the form, 8 then they also need to pay 50 percent of what they're signing 9 for, and I don't think that's really what we've been doing. I 10 think it kind of has been, you know, you come in and sign it 11 within five, and then within five you pay -- you pay 12 50 percent, and then within -- within 20, you do something 13 else. So, I think it -- it's a little bit confusing, so we 14 wanted to write them down and make sure what everyone 15 understood. And if there are changes, then this is a living 16 document; we can keep changing it to modify it, to meet what 17 the expectations are. The booking agent then reviews with the 18 customer that the balance must be paid 20 working days before 19 the event. This is where I think it gets real convoluted. 20 You're supposed to book it at least 20 days prior, but then we 21 go back and say that within five days you can sign the form, 22 and five days you pay, which is kind of different. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're at 30 days now. 24 MS. HYDE: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So you're adding another 20, 5-14-07 114 1 making 50 days? 2 MS. HYDE: It depends on how you perceive the -- 3 what it says. Which is why I got him to reread it and tell me 4 what it is that we said. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't it be easier to -- 6 before we start doing the work, do an actual line, start 7 counting the days? A timeline? 'Cause, I mean, I'm getting 8 confused if we're counting -- on the five days, if we're 9 starting on the day it's signed, or -- 10 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, are we -- 12 MS. HYDE: It depends on which -- if you read the 13 lease or you read the contract or you read the letter that's 14 sent back to the customer, it's very confusing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be inappropriate 16 for us to consider -- maybe this is for a later discussion; 17 I'm not sure -- that a 50 percent deposit accompanies the 18 application for the event? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's it right 21 there. That's what you do. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want it? Put your bucks 23 up. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then when do you pay the 25 remaining? 5-14-07 115 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can set that -- you can 2 have some time to do the rest. But, you know, you don't go 3 out and rent an apartment without putting some money up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you pay the rest of it 30 5 days or 20 days or something like that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you ought to pay it 7 prior to use. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, prior to use. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, sure. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you don't get it prior to 11 use, you may have a hard time tracking them down. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly, yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It needs to be paid before 14 it's used. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just one other little 17 thing, but that's why we're having this discussion. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either 10 days, 15 days, 20 19 days, something. Reasonable amount of time, so that if they 20 don't pay that second fee, it's open for us to rent again. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 22 MS. HYDE: So, we want the deposit at the time of 23 signing, and then we want 50 percent deposit of total funds, 24 or do we want 50 percent of the total? 'Cause there's a 25 deposit that they're supposed to put in as well. 5-14-07 116 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say 50 percent of -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Total funds. 3 MS. HYDE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which includes the deposit. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you want to require 7 the balance far enough out to where you can re-rent it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, at least have a little bit 9 of a shot at renting it. 10 MS. HYDE: Balance due 20 -- 20 days prior to the 11 event date? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 20. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Specifying here 20 working days? 15 Business days? You want to leave it at that, or calendar 16 days? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Calendar days. It's easier for 18 people. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21 calendar days. 20 MS. HYDE: 21. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 20 working days is a month. 22 21 calendar days is three weeks. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you do the working days, then 24 you have holidays, and all that mess comes up. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5-14-07 117 1 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, balance is due 21 calendar 2 days prior to the event. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, on -- have we got to the 4 reoccurring? 5 MS. HYDE: No, that's the next one. Reoccurring -- 6 regular reoccurring events may be paid for on a monthly basis. 7 Here's a change, Commissioner Baldwin. It just -- that's all 8 it said in everything that I could find. It just says they 9 can be paid for on a monthly basis. It doesn't say when, it 10 doesn't say how much, it doesn't say current, past, doesn't 11 say anything. So I added within the first five working days 12 of the month to maintain a current payment schedule. For 13 example, if I use it in January, it's due February 5th. Now, 14 if we're saying that this is -- you know, if it's every single 15 month, they can use it and they're paying -- they're paying 16 afterwards? Or do you want it prior to? Do you want full 17 payment prior to utilizing the barn? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Prior to using it. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's full payment 20 prior to use. I just don't think we're running a credit here. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I don't either. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, if you want to use 24 it, you got to pay for it, and you need to pay for it before 25 you use it. 5-14-07 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. 2 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, January -- if they're going to 3 use it in January, it's due by December 5th of the prior 4 month. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they want to renew it, 6 then they got to put the money up for the next month. 7 MS. HYDE: That still gives you three weeks to try 8 to re-rent it if they decide they're not going to do it. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why wouldn't you say the same 20 11 days prior to the -- they always have to be paid in full 20 -- 12 21 days before they use it. 13 MS. HYDE: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe I'm not understanding 15 "reoccurring." 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They use it the 15th of every 17 month. Just -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A roping? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or cutting or something like 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could be a roping. 23 MS. HYDE: There's no language that specifies what 24 "reoccurring" is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, our history 5-14-07 119 1 shows that ropings are reoccurring. 2 MS. HYDE: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certain months of the year. 4 Is there other things? Would the -- would the wild game 5 dinner -- that's a reoccurring event, but it's just annually. 6 But the word "reoccurring" -- 7 MS. HYDE: I think you take the "reoccurring" out, 8 just put everything to be paid prior to usage, 21 days. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody plays under the 10 same -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everybody plays. You don't 12 complicate it -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know what -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- by throwing some other 15 terminology in it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem with that was that 17 if you take something like some of the ropings, you're asking 18 them -- they have to -- they're paying all of it way up front. 19 And, I mean, like, maybe six months before they do their first 20 event, and we're looking at a year or two years in advance. 21 And, I mean, be an lawful lot of money. We're trying to leave 22 it so the deposit would roll over. Long as they're staying 23 current, they should be able to, you know, have kind of a 24 floating deposit with them, you know. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe 21 days prior to the 5-14-07 120 1 event, no matter if they're going to have it on the 15th or, 2 say, the 21st of February, they ought to have a payment in on 3 the 20th. And if they're going to have another roping the 4 next month, then they pay for it 21 days ahead of the roping. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whether they do -- if they 6 reserve it six times during the year, how much deposit do they 7 put up? How much 50 percent do they put up day one? That's 8 the question. That was why the reoccurring -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they don't pay, they don't 10 get to use it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But say they put -- they're 12 going to use it six months, and that it's going to be $1,000 13 each time. Do they put up $500 and reserve it for all six 14 times, or do they need to put up -- you knew where I was 15 going -- $2,500? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you came up with the 17 answer a second ago. A rolling deposit. I've got it booked 18 here for January, and, you know, I've got my date I'm going to 19 have it, and my money's down. At that point, my deposit -- if 20 they're going to pay for the whole thing, my deposit rolls to 21 the next one on things that are reoccurring, like a roping or 22 cutting or whatever. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Deposit is -- 21 days prior to the 24 event, they pay the entire amount that's due for that event. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For that event. So, it's -- one 5-14-07 121 1 deposit can hold six events, but 21 days prior, they pay 100 2 percent of the next 21 days. 3 MR. EMERSON: I would recommend you insert the 4 language, "may." One deposit may roll. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MR. EMERSON: Because if you get some turkey that 7 uses it, you don't want to do that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had this discussion one 10 other time, and it centered around the booking. "Well, I want 11 to be able to book it, blah, blah, blah, blah." 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- I think that's fair. I 13 think they need -- it needs to be paid 21 days in advance, but 14 I think one deposit can hold multiple dates. I have no 15 problem with that, as long as they're staying in good 16 standing. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And if they don't -- if the 18 time comes when they don't pay for an event, the event's not 19 held. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For example, -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And all -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- if I'm -- if I'm leasing 23 it for $1,000, and I'm going to -- I'm having several events, 24 my rental's going to be 1,000 bucks, so I put up my 500. When 25 it comes time to pay, I'm going to write a check for 1,000, 5-14-07 122 1 and my 500 rolls. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What do you do -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're smiling, Judge. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm with you. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- what about the 9 issue of the agility dogs that like certain dates? They want 10 to reserve two days in March every year. Can we do that? 11 What about the wild game dinner? When do they pay -- or they 12 don't pay. Something like -- some kind of annual event. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The homeowners -- home builders 14 show. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Home builders show. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we lost that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't matter. Okay, 18 scratch home builders. Any event that uses the facility on an 19 annual basis, that -- that pays. How do we -- how do we book 20 them and collect their money? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can -- are you -- can they book 22 multiple years? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- can they -- can the 25 agility dog folks book it three years? 5-14-07 123 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's also correct. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One deposit holds it all. 3 Can't -- 4 MR. EMERSON: I would say then you have -- you have 5 one deposit for each year of bookings or something like that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You got to start over 7 annually. But can you reserve those dates three years out? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but under what Bill -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Current policy, I think, is two. 10 MR. EMERSON: Y'all have that in our order, and I 11 can't remember exactly what -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can reserve all three -- or 13 all the dates, and they can deposit on one, but as soon as 14 they pay 21 days prior to that first one that year, they've 15 got to write a check for the full amount. Then that deposit 16 rolls over for the next year. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just like everybody else. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good idea. I 21 think it's fair, too. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way they never have more 23 than one deposit out, and we're getting money up front. I 24 think there's a limit to it, 'cause I remember there was an 25 issue at one point as to -- I think it was Sudie came before 5-14-07 124 1 us and said we have to allow for people to book years out, 2 because people plan years out. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think our policy says two 4 years. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two years? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That should be long enough. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For our facility. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, at this point, we're just 11 working on a draft anyway. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This was the main thing, is 17 let's get a good draft, and then we'll bring it back next 18 meeting and we'll -- she can present it, or we will, and make 19 other modifications if necessary. But we got to start 20 somewhere. I think this is a good spot. 21 MS. HYDE: The booking agent e-mails the reservation 22 form and event information form to County Treasurer within 24 23 hours of the initial call from the customer. That way she can 24 start a logbook, and she's got one of each booking. That's 25 new. 5-14-07 125 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't been getting much 2 of a rundown on what has been rented and when and by who and 3 for how much. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Been very limited on what 6 documentation has been on that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it -- I would add form 8 to County Treasurer, Maintenance, and Commissioners Court. I 9 think all three -- Maintenance needs to get one of those early 10 on so they can have a file on it. I think we need to have a 11 file here so we know what's going on. Just tell Jody to 12 create a file; when these forms come in, just put a copy in 13 the file. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can be transferred over 15 computer. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that idea. I think 17 it's important that we start establishing a file here so we 18 know who's in that place and when they're in there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we just have a file; we can 20 look it up and say, "These are the applications we received." 21 And then Maintenance clearly needs to be involved in that 22 loop, 'cause they need to start being able to plan pretty far 23 in advance. 24 MS. HYDE: What we can do -- it's not in here, but 25 one of the sidebars was that we all have Outlook. And -- 5-14-07 126 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have Outlook. 2 MS. HYDE: We all have Outlook in the courthouse. 3 And Jody could put it in her Outlook. She could put this in 4 her Outlook, or we could have the booking agent put it in 5 Outlook where we could share it and see it, so that it would 6 be a running record of what we've got. Or we can just get a 7 calendar, and we can make that calendar and fill it in as we 8 go. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think the Court 10 needs a calendar. We just need to keep the file of who's been 11 in it, what's the rental rate, whatever, whatever. And by 12 sharing e-mails, we can do that. 13 MS. HYDE: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have to generate 15 another piece of paper, except on the receiving end. 16 MS. HYDE: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And who did you add -- you 18 added Treasurer, Commissioners Court, and -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance. 20 MS. HYDE: Maintenance. Booking agent maintains 21 logbook with current forms and is responsible for collecting 22 revenues within the procedural and leasing agreement 23 guidelines. I left that one wide open, 'cause I knew that 24 they would change. Booking agent will take any revenue 25 collected in the county to the Treasurer within 24 hours to 5-14-07 127 1 help insure timely receipt and deposit of funds. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to allow for weekends. 3 I don't know -- actually, we never receive funds on the 4 weekend. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, some provision that 6 the Monday following the Friday. 7 MS. HYDE: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they receive funds at 9 3:30 in the afternoon or 5 o'clock in the afternoon, then it 10 needs to be in by Monday morning. 11 MR. EMERSON: How about next business day? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Next business day. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next business day, whatever. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 15 MS. HYDE: Except in the case of weekend. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it'll still be next 18 business day, even on a weekend. 19 MS. HYDE: Take revenue to the County Treasurer by 20 end of next business day. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll do it. 22 MS. HYDE: Booking agent will reconcile monthly 23 booking with monthly receipts, and present completed report to 24 the County Treasurer -- and I'm going to assume you're going 25 to want County Commissioners and Maintenance -- during the 5-14-07 128 1 first five days of the month; i.e., January report due by 2 February 5th. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that Maintenance 4 needs that one, but certainly the Commissioners Court does. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the Auditor? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yep, Auditor too. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Auditor and Treasurer. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Treasurer, Auditor, 10 Commissioners Court. Maintenance doesn't have to be in there. 11 MS. HYDE: Would the Auditor need one back up at the 12 top? Or no? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I wouldn't think so. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't think so. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they won't. Once the 18 money's coming in, that's when they need to be involved on the 19 reconciliation. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if he knows -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: The same with the Treasurer. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If there's a breakdown, he has 23 a copy. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Even on the individual ones, you 25 prefer a copy of that, Tommy? 5-14-07 129 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Just a monthly one. 2 MS. HYDE: Just the monthly one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Just the monthly, okay. That's where 4 we got you. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 6 Are you going to generate the report form? 7 MS. HYDE: Who? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You. 9 MS. HYDE: Me? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, booking agent. 11 MS. HYDE: The booking agent. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He means the original one, I 13 think. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the one that -- the 15 form that the booking agent will reconcile and present a 16 completed report to the County. 17 MS. HYDE: You're talking about the outline of the 18 report? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 MS. HYDE: I was going to present something to 21 y'all, let y'all tweak it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the answer is yes. 23 MS. HYDE: Maybe. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I just think it 25 needs to be done from this side. 5-14-07 130 1 MS. HYDE: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of what kind of report, what 3 we want the report to look like. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 5 MS. HYDE: I'll check -- on this last one here in 6 the current agreement that's signed, it says that we only take 7 checks and money orders. I added bank drafts. But it -- 8 somehow, maybe it's changed and I just haven't found it, but 9 we also take cash? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have the ability to 11 take a debit card? 12 (Ms. Hyde shook her head negatively.) 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? Okay. 14 MR. EMERSON: Just from an operational security 15 standpoint, cash is a problem. You're at a remote location; 16 you're likely to take in a large amount of cash on a Friday. 17 It wouldn't be deposited till Monday. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MS. HYDE: I'd be worried about someone coming in 20 and robbing. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No cash. 22 MS. HYDE: So, do we want do keep it just checks and 23 money orders and bank drafts? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'm all right. 25 MS. HYDE: Okay. 5-14-07 131 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- when you say "bank 2 drafts" -- 3 MS. HYDE: Well, you know, some people that are -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cashier's check or something 5 like that. 6 MS. HYDE: Some people from out of town bring in 7 cashier's checks. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a bank draft? 9 MS. HYDE: I just wanted to make sure we were 10 covered. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't know what a bank draft 12 was. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we say "cashier's 14 check"? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bank draft, I'm not -- 16 MS. HYDE: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe this is a good start 18 to getting a handle on the problem. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bank cashier's check. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right now, there -- I don't 22 think anybody knows in this Commissioners Court what days that 23 thing is rented, what the revenues have been. There just 24 hasn't been much documentation generated from anything that 25 goes on out there. It's been that way for a long time. I 5-14-07 132 1 believe it's time to -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- this exact thing was 3 done a year and a half ago. It was done. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Bruce, what I'm hearing 5 you say is Ms. Hyde's going to take over the booking at the 6 facility? 7 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe that's the 9 case. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not what you're 11 saying? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde said, "No, sir." 13 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, gentlemen. It's -- it's 16 approaching quarter after. We've got a ways to go with what 17 we've got left to do today. So, I know Commissioner Baldwin 18 is anxious to get down to Buzzie's. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just because of 20 fellowship; that's the only reason. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. So, why don't we go ahead and 22 recess -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you do, one quickie. 24 The resolution needed a roll call vote. Can we do that? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So that we -- 5-14-07 133 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Clerk says to 2 certify -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What resolution? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The one we passed that 5 requires a roll call vote. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me quickly go back to Item 1.6, 7 recall that item; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 8 to adopt resolution requesting Texas Water Development Board 9 assistance through grant funding for the Center Point/Eastern 10 Kerr County wastewater collection and transmission system. 11 There was a motion made and seconded in support of that agenda 12 item. Let me call roll call on the vote on that item. 13 Commissioner Baldwin? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Aye. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, that solves that problem. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And I'll have the 23 resolution cleaned up for the Court after break. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we'll stand in recess 25 until 1:45. 5-14-07 134 1 (Recess taken from 12:13 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we come back to 4 order? We were in recess for lunch, and did we get everything 5 squared away, at least for the time being, on Item 13, 6 gentlemen? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe we could revisit 8 that, if you'd like to. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Well, let's -- let's 10 continue on Item 13, then. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mrs. Hyde has, during her 12 lunch hour -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde got married again? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ms. Hyde -- I'm sorry -- has 15 redone, as per our request, the procedures for the Ag Barn, 16 and she'll present those to you and we can go over them. And 17 if they are satisfactory, we can do something with them, I 18 would think, rather than just prolong it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see Ms. Hyde took the 21 numbers off this time. 22 MS. HYDE: I took the numbers off. I just took from 23 my notes, so I wanted -- I request that y'all just kind of -- 24 let's look over it one more time and make sure that I've got 25 your base like you wanted it. What are you laughing at, 5-14-07 135 1 Commissioner Letz? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just looking at the "to capture 3 event information". Such an active word you used there. 4 That's okay. I would -- as I'm reading, I have a question. 5 We have an event information form and a reservation -- two 6 different forms? 7 MS. HYDE: They're two different forms right now. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't we have one? 9 MS. HYDE: Sorry? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no way -- I mean -- 11 MS. HYDE: They currently have two. They have this 12 one that I gave you this morning, and all I did was staple 13 this on top. They have the back page. And then they have the 14 actual fee schedule, the reservation form where she can 15 capture fees. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we have one form? Just -- 17 only fill part of it out, and then -- so you don't have 18 multiple documents? 19 MS. HYDE: I agree. I'd like to make the 20 reservation form be all-inclusive. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And you may have -- Part 22 A is completed initially, then Part B when you get more 23 information. But that way, you're not looking at different... 24 MS. HYDE: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On that one, Eva, -- 5-14-07 136 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- we're talking about 3 recurring payments and so forth, and we're rolling -- 4 MS. HYDE: I was worried about that one. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're rolling forward the 6 deposit. We're talking about 1,000 due 21 days prior to the 7 event. 1,000 "due and payable." It must be paid. We have to 8 say it has to be paid, 'cause that's the only way the deposit 9 rolls forward, if the event is paid in full at that time. 10 MS. HYDE: Okay, "and payable" -- "and paid." 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And paid. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paid. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think on the third bullet, 14 the Intent to Reserve form. It's the reservation. I think we 15 still -- they have to sign the reservation form. Or is there 16 another form they sign when they want to reserve it? 17 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't we have them sign the 19 reservation form -- or Page 1 of the reservation form? 20 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, I take can take out the Intent 21 to Reserve form, and they sign the reservation form. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be easier if we have one form. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. EMERSON: If I'm not mistaken, y'all were using 25 the Intent to Reserve form, because if I call and I want to 5-14-07 137 1 book the Ag Barn and I live in Tuscaloosa, Oklahoma, you send 2 me the Intent to Reserve; I send it back, and my booking's 3 good for five days until you receive the money. And if you 4 don't, then it's gone. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- I mean, I can see 6 that, but I'm -- to me, you could have one form. And they -- 7 I mean, they'll have the information all at one time. You may 8 have multiple parts to that form, as opposed to different 9 forms. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still think this one here 11 can be cleaned up. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'm kind of struggling 13 with that one too. I think you're right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't tell her. 15 MS. HYDE: Which one? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big one. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reoccurring. We're playing 18 with the reoccurring events. 19 MS. HYDE: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $500 is due at the time of 21 booking, with the remainder of the $1,000 due 21 days prior to 22 the event. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Wouldn't be the remainder then, would 24 it? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 5-14-07 138 1 MS. HYDE: What do you call it? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Due at the time of booking. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Period. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At time of booking, period. 5 MS. HYDE: Which one, period? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the balance due. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Period after "time of 8 booking." The remainder due will be paid 21 days prior to the 9 event. That's not exactly the way we want to say it. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Remaining balance. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we want to do this as we sit here 12 today? 13 MR. EMERSON: How about the balance due shall be 14 paid no later than? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's play with it. Let's 17 think about it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can do this, and also I 19 think we need to have a proposed fee schedule for the next 20 meeting. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Let's play with this. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 23 MS. HYDE: And then you want the fee schedules. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you and I and Jonathan 25 will work on it, what we think may be a proposed fee schedule 5-14-07 139 1 to be for next meeting. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a real good idea. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me particularly play 4 around with that reoccurring one. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce and Eva or somebody. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva, I'll try to rework that 7 reoccurring events one. 8 MS. HYDE: Thank you. That one was a tough one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that would be better than 10 trying to force something here today. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we through, then, with 13? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to 14, then, if we might. 15 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize 16 Road and Bridge Department to close a portion of Old Camp 17 Verde Road from State Highway 173 to vicinity of Fraser 18 property to provide parking for persons attending the 150th 19 anniversary of the Camp Verde Store on June the 23rd, 2007. 20 Commissioner Williams. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz has 22 advised me of this. He knows a little bit more about the 23 details, but obviously, they're having a 150th anniversary, 24 and they'd like to have some parking, and they can do that on 25 Old Camp Verde Road. Move approval. 5-14-07 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's about it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, question. How far is 7 Fraser Road down there? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fraser's property. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fraser's property. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably 1,000 yards. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it that old -- that old 12 loop thing? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's that first -- as 14 you're coming off 173, going back to 480 -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going back to 480 towards 16 Center Point. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First house you come to on the 18 left, I believe. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Fraser, yes. So, 20 about 1,000 yards, no more than that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Before you get to the 22 creek crossing. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Oh, yeah, long 24 before. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're just closing that 5-14-07 141 1 little portion for that one -- that time frame? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that day. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 8:00 to something. I can't 4 remember what -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That day, so they can have it 6 for parking. They're planning to have a pretty big 7 celebration. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I assume Commissioners 9 Court's going to get invited? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. I'll see to it. 11 Or you can see to it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What precinct is that in? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mine. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I was thinking. They 16 keep looking at you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he keeps going down 18 there. You getting free lunches down there or something? Is 19 that the deal? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know some of the principals 21 down there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All right, any further 23 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 24 by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-14-07 142 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move to 4 Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 5 regarding janitorial service agreements. This shows that I 6 put it on the agenda, and I'm -- I think this was added after 7 I left town. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we don't -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I correct in that? 10 MS. HYDE: I'm supposed to wing it until he gets 11 back. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I see, okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, dance, then. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This issue arose -- we have two 15 contract situations regarding custodial services, one here at 16 the courthouse, one out at the jail. 17 MS. HYDE: Adult Probation. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Adult Probation, with two different 19 contractors. And in looking more closely at those issues, 20 there was no agreement evidencing what that was supposed to 21 be. It was a deal that Glenn cut a few years ago. Seems to 22 be working okay, and far as I know, everything's getting done 23 under it. But an issue came up when there was an issue about 24 additional services over and above that which was ordinarily 25 contemplated under the original contract, so at that point, it 5-14-07 143 1 was suggested that we do a contract, have these people sign, 2 so that everybody knew where everybody else was and we're all 3 on the same page. And the last contact I had with the issue 4 was sometime late week before last, or early last week, and 5 the County Attorney was working on a very elementary skeletal 6 agreement for that purpose. 7 MS. HYDE: He's printing them as we speak. And the 8 skeletory agreement is completed, one for each, 'cause they're 9 doing great. And the bottom line is that we pulled them out 10 of the Tax Assessor's office and the County Clerk's office, 11 and Mando and Olivia and Maria will take care of that, and 12 then they'll take care of other areas that don't have 13 sensitive material in them, so that way everyone's covered. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: These services are essentially 15 provided after normal business hours, and one of the concerns 16 was these contract personnel having access to areas where 17 there was sensitive information, and so they were going to be 18 reworked so that the duties would be in areas where those 19 concerns didn't exist. And now I'm given to understand that 20 got worked out. 21 MS. HYDE: It protects them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, protects everybody. 23 MS. HYDE: It protects them, protects us. That way 24 no one can come back and say, "So-and-so was in here and stuff 25 is missing." You know, it -- it just makes it a lot cleaner, 5-14-07 144 1 and it helps them. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wouldn't we have the same 3 concern at Adult Probation, though? 4 MS. HYDE: They didn't seem to have any concern 5 whatsoever, so we said okey-dokey. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, who are these people? I 7 don't necessarily need to know names, but -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Luis Venegas. No, it's contract, so 9 you're entitled to the information. Everybody is. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But they work here in this 11 building? 12 MS. HYDE: After hours. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Maria's husband? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. And the other is Yolanda 15 Cervantes, which is Maria's sister-in-law, I believe. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Sister. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sister? Okay. And our relationship 18 with them goes back -- 19 MS. HYDE: Three to five years. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 MS. HYDE: And they show up -- I think the problem 22 was that we couldn't get people to -- that the cleaning 23 service was sending different people in all the time. No one 24 knew who was coming. You didn't know who was supposed to be 25 there, so there was a lot of concern with that. And these 5-14-07 145 1 folks have done a good job. There's been no complaints. They 2 show up to work. So, they just needed some additional -- if 3 their services were needed outside of cleaning at night. You 4 know, let's say we had something special where they had to 5 come in and help with carpet cleaning or something like that, 6 where there was additional time needed. There was nothing in 7 there for how to pay it, or from where to pay it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Rex's document's going to 9 fix all that? 10 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think we can get this 12 done today? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is -- I want to bring up -- a 15 question that comes to mind is that, who do they work for? 16 Who do they take their orders from? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: They're independent contractors. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But who oversees the contract? 19 I guess the Court? My concern is -- is that we're not getting 20 ourselves in a bad situation if Maria's head of custodial 21 services and -- 22 MS. HYDE: They don't work for Maria. They would 23 not work for Maria; they work for -- they work for the 24 Commissioners Court. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who do they take their 5-14-07 146 1 directions from? 2 MS. HYDE: Their directions are within the contract. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I just want to make sure 4 that we're -- both parties, the County and them, are protected 5 because of the family relationship between Maria and these two 6 contractors. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The contract is explicit; 8 they will do this, this, this and this and this. 9 MS. HYDE: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the last discussion that I 11 was in on, the issue of additional services outside of their 12 normal duties was to be cleared with either you or myself? 13 Oh, you dropped it in my lap? 14 MS. HYDE: I believe the County Attorney revised 15 that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're the Maintenance guy. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're the Maintenance; you 19 wanted that one. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That means he monitors the 21 performance under these contracts, right? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could be construed that way. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. (Laughter.) That means that 24 one should not leave town. 25 MS. HYDE: Everything is paid for. Like, all their 5-14-07 147 1 supplies come from us, so they don't have to bring anything 2 in, and everything is outlined in the contract. It's a pretty 3 thick contract for it being simple. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I've not seen it. 5 MS. HYDE: It's pretty -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're dancing, okay. 7 MS. HYDE: I'm dancing just as fast as I can. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Want to pay bills? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's exactly -- you're 10 reading my mind, Commissioner. Why don't we come back to that 11 one. In the meantime, we will go to Section 4 of the agenda. 12 Okay. First item, payment of the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 16 bills. Any question or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a few questions. On 18 Page 8, County Court, mental health hearings. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who is this person? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Bob Weber? He's a local lawyer. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Oh, I see why the prices 23 are different, then. Okay. Then on Page 23 and 25, Human 24 Resources and County Treasurer. I just see that they look 25 almost the same. Skip that; I see the difference. On Page 5-14-07 148 1 31, the very last one down there, Bill Smallwood, building 2 repair, mixer installed. I happen to know Bill Smallwood from 3 Fredericksburg, and I'm assuming that this is some kind of 4 musical instrument? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sound equipment, I imagine. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sound equipment at Union 7 Church was disabled by a lightning strike, I understand. 8 That's what this repaired. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. That's the 10 Union Church, okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: On that same page, just above there, 12 you'll notice two different elevator companies for -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I saw that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- maintenance, and I asked 15 Mr. Bollier what that was about, and he said, "Well, you got 16 one for the elevator here in this building and one for the old 17 elevator that went up to the jail, and never the twain shall 18 meet." 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't realize that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Elevator going to the old 21 jail? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The old jail. That goes to 23 District Court now. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their private entrance. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the prisoner entrance. 5-14-07 149 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Steve's private entrance. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Private judge entrance. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also for judges. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then on Page 42, the very 5 last one, it looks like something to do with EMS, First 6 Responder. I just can't tell what that is. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Renewal of EMS continuing education, 8 12 employees. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Renewal of EMS continuing 10 education, 12 employees. Employees? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's for First Responders. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First Responders are not 13 employees. But we call them -- 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We call them employees here? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: That's just their abbreviation for 17 what it is. It's for employees or volunteers, or -- 18 they're First Responder people. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If your question is, does that go to 20 Eric Maloney's private company, I suspect it does. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that your question? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: E-Genesis is his private 25 company? 5-14-07 150 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I think he's 2 got it, though. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think you're probably 4 right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be all my 6 questions today, Mr. Auditor. Thank you so much for your 7 time. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. We do have an office; you can 9 come by. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. But sometimes I work 11 for a living and I don't have time to get down there. 12 Historically, I have been by your office, and sometimes I 13 prefer to do it in this room for education purposes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 47. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why didn't you go down to 16 Tommy's office? Jump on him. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause he wasn't here yesterday while 18 you and I were. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You and I were here, that's 20 right. Yeah, he and I were here yesterday. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. And we checked your office, and 22 you weren't there. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, I'll admit I wasn't there 24 yesterday. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Hill Country Pest Control, the first 5-14-07 151 1 two entries. Termites at the Ag Barn? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I know about that. 3 Termites were discovered in the office area, eating up all -- 4 a bunch of 2-by-4's, floor -- floor plates around some of the 5 wood framing on the underside of the upstairs part. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so Alyce found them, and I 8 told her that maybe she ought to call and get them taken care 9 of before they ate more than they should. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay, that's all the 11 questions I got. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What a great way to get a 13 new building. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Let the termites eat it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? All 16 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 21 amendments. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This was a test to see if I 23 knew what you were talking about. You were talking about the 24 Ag Barn. Just a test. I know what it was. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't know we had termites. 5-14-07 152 1 Budget Amendment Request Number 1. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for the Treasurer to pay 3 for her bond. So, we're asking for a transfer of funds from 4 what was Worker's Comp line item to Bonds and Insurance. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's on the County 6 Treasurer's bond? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does she not have an 9 employee? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what it's for. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: $400 of that is for the official's 12 bond. $100 of it is for the part-time temp employee that I 13 have right now. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget Amendment 24 Request Number 2. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for Commissioners Court 5-14-07 153 1 and County-Sponsored Activities. We're paying the deductible 2 to Texas Association of Counties for a lawsuit of Mr. Kenneth 3 Wardlaw, so I'm asking for a transfer of $5,000 from Trapper 4 Contract to Professional Services. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we have excess in 6 Trapper? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know, but if you annualize 8 their -- their monthly fee, we'll have that much left. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $5,000 goes to Kendall County on 10 interlocal agreement. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I wasn't aware of that. Well, we'll 12 just -- can we do that? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we do it out of Worker's 14 Comp? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We can, yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Switch it to come out of 17 Worker's Comp. Now, Kendall County may never request their 18 money, which is okay. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they haven't so far. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But we're obligated to pay them if 21 they ask for it. Good thinking, Jonathan. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the professional 23 service? Wardlaw? What is that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deductible on a lawsuit. It was 25 a lawsuit. 5-14-07 154 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, Wardlaw sued? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: For the lady that drowned going 4 underneath the bridge down there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right, we were a part 7 of this. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the status of that? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got it dismissed, I thought. 11 I thought we were dismissed from that lawsuit. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I haven't heard. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I think we were, but this is -- this 14 is attorney's fees. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To get us dismissed. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. This got us 17 dismissed. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cheap. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this is to TAC? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's our deductible for -- under our 23 policy, which includes defense coverage. 24 THE CLERK: I need a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got any other place to take 5-14-07 155 1 it? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we're going to take it out 3 of Worker's Comp. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Worker's Comp, 10-409-204. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 8 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 9 by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 14 Request 3. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 3 is for Road and Bridge. 16 This is to budget -- well, to budget some unbudgeted revenues 17 for Road and Bridge, so they can use this for -- I guess it's 18 for paving, because it's for asphalt, culvert pipe, and signs 19 and traffic control. We have $14,080 in sales, and 1,359.40 20 in culvert pipe sales, and $419 for street signs. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Any questions or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is part of that -- your 5-14-07 156 1 question from this morning about our eBay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They got 14,080 for that 4 wonderful equipment we surplussed already. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It's more than that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: More than that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, a lot more coming in. 8 But they've -- 9 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's right at 30 right now. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 30,000 we got in. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a lot more than we 12 get through all that computer stuff. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's more than -- all that 14 stuff that they've sold wasn't worth 35,000. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 16 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 17 hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 22 Request Number 4. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 4 is for Constable, 24 Precinct 1. This is to increase his budget by $50.05 for a 25 donation, to put that donation into Miscellaneous for him to 5-14-07 157 1 be able to expend those funds. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: People are always giving him 3 money. So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 7 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Budget Amendment 12 Request Number 5. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Five is for the 198th District Court 14 and the Jury department. This request is to transfer $12,000 15 from Court-Appointed Services, $2,000 from Special District 16 Judge line item, $639.76 from Telephone line item, and $7,500 17 from Juror Fees. $14,644 goes to Court-Appointed Attorneys, 18 $2,825.73 to Civil Court-Appointed Attorney line item, and 19 $4,670.03 into Court-Appointed Services. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Any question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I want to restate that 25 last -- that 4,670.03, where does it go? 5-14-07 158 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Court Transcripts. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said Court-Appointed -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I was flying off. It's Court 4 Transcripts. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Court Transcripts, thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what you pay twice for. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: People that don't reimburse you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exactly right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that help you understand that? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got it clear as a bell. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: The next go-round of this is going 14 to be to increase the budget, 'cause this is about -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About it. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: -- all I could find. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got a long way to go. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor, would it be possible for 19 you to prepare, prior to the next meeting, an estimate of what 20 it's going to take to finish out the year in Court-Appointed 21 Attorney, Criminal and Civil Court-Appointed Attorney, 22 Court-Appointed Services in all the courts? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Sure. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it would be helpful for us to 25 have that, number one, to know what we're going to be looking 5-14-07 159 1 at for the rest of the year, and number two, for budgeting 2 purposes. Any other question or discussion? All in favor of 3 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 8 Request Number 6. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Six is for Environmental Health, and 10 this is -- this is to move some money for conferences for the 11 -- for this department, with $478 from Site Cleanup line item, 12 $432 from Vehicle Insurance line item. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This for the new employee? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 24 Request Number 7. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Seven is for the Jury 5-14-07 160 1 Department to pay some -- for an interpreter, to transfer $243 2 from Operating Supplies to Interpreter line item. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 7 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 12 Request Number 8. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 8 is for the 216th District 14 Court. This is to pay a court reporter and -- and for a court 15 transcript. We're transferring $2,192.92 from Court-Appointed 16 Attorney line item, $47.92 to Court Transcripts and $2,145 to 17 Special Court Reporter. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-14-07 161 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 2 Request Number 9. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ha, ha, ha. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 9 is for the County Judge for 5 Out-of-County Mileage. We're transferring $56.87 from 6 Conferences to Out-of-County Mileage. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval. Any question or discussion? More coming, 11 gentlemen. All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 16 Request Number 10. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Ten is for Commissioners Court, 18 for -- to pay the remainder of the year for the Center Point 19 utilities bills. So, we're asking to transfer $235 from 20 Notices and $200 from Telephone line item, for a total of $435 21 for those utilities. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The rest of the year. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Center Point? What are we 24 paying down in Center Point? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since you were up here, he has 5-14-07 162 1 an office down there. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have an outlying 3 office. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could have. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess we have to break the 6 budget in order to have one of those. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess you do. Move 8 approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Any question or discussion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boys. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 14 by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can see the headline now. 20 "Court shuts down Center Point office." 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We shut the lights off one 22 time. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request Number 11. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 11 is for the County Jail for 25 medical expenses -- prisoner medical expenses. We're 5-14-07 163 1 proposing a transfer of $4,269.97 from Jailer Salaries to 2 Prisoner Medical. I have two bills -- two late bills payable 3 to Dr. Parvin totaling $3,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to include 7 late bill hand check to Dr. Parvin for $3,000. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think this is an area we can 9 take some funds out of to pay Court-appointed attorneys in the 10 future. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Good observation, Commissioner. 12 That's probably one of two hidey-holes that the Sheriff 13 maintains. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that, but this 15 looks like a really good spot. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. Any other questions or 17 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget Amendment 23 Request Number 12. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 12 is for the Sheriff's 25 Department to pay for an installation of a camera in a 5-14-07 164 1 vehicle. We're asking for a transfer of $580 from Dispatcher 2 Salaries to Vehicle Equipment. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Another one of those places to 5 hunt. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we just find the other 7 hidey-hole? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we found one of maybe 9 two more. Did somebody second the motion? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 13 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 14 by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget Amendment 19 Request 13. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: 13 is for Human Resources. This is 21 to pay -- reimburse Eva Hyde $250 for -- to the Walker's 22 Consulting Group. We're transferring $250 from Group 23 Insurance to Books, Publications, and Dues. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's it for? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: It's for a subscription to 5-14-07 165 1 participate in the Texas County Salaries Survey. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My god. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 6 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 7 by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have any 12 more budget amendments? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 17 reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2, Justice of the 18 Peace, Precinct 3, and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4. Do I 19 hear a motion that these reports be approved as presented? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-14-07 166 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's get 4 back to Item 14 -- 15 on the agenda, if we might. We'll 5 recall that item; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 6 regarding janitorial service agreements. You need some more 7 sugar to keep you awake. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess so. Then she hands 9 it to me upside down. Golly. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Im surprised you can recognize it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She's just checking to see 12 if you could read it. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It sure does seem like a whole lot 15 more than what we talked about. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She can have mine. 18 MS. HYDE: They throw them away. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can have two. 20 MS. HYDE: The other one, Judge, we just changed the 21 name and the amount. It would be the same thing; just change 22 the name and the amount. Commissioner Letz, the back is what 23 you were asking about. It tells everything that they're 24 supposed to do and when. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I notice this is a one-year contract. 5-14-07 167 1 It doesn't appear to have an automatic renewal. 2 MR. EMERSON: I didn't put one in there. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 4 MR. EMERSON: I didn't put one in there. It's easy 5 enough to add, if that's what you desire. 6 MS. HYDE: We can make it an evergreen, right. Just 7 make it an evergreen, and they could sign it every year. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to rely upon you to make 9 sure that we address that issue every year. That's what I see 10 the issue is. 11 MS. HYDE: Remembering. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Fall through the cracks and failing 13 to address it. Is there a holdover provision? 14 (Mr. Emerson shook his head negatively.) 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to make the 16 term of this one expire September 30th, and get it on a cycle 17 where we're more inclined to do it 'cause it coincides with 18 our budget. And then the next one -- do this one starting -- 19 the next one will start October 1 through September 30th the 20 following year. Then do annual after that, with probably 21 renewal -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Automatic renewal on the same terms 23 and conditions, or such other terms and conditions -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the first one -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- mutually agreed upon. And at 5-14-07 168 1 consideration as may be mutually agreed upon, but otherwise to 2 remain the same? If there's no new agreement -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's better to get it on 4 our budget cycle to start with. Otherwise, we're really going 5 to have to figure out where we are. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this is the kind of 7 contract that Commissioner Letz and I have been begging our 8 administrative assistant for about 15 years to keep an eye on 9 and help us remember and all that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's H.R. I think 11 it should be Jody's responsibility to keep track of it. 12 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We haven't been able to 14 accomplish that yet, but we're working on it even as we speak 15 with Jody. We're going to get her cell phone this afternoon 16 and call her in Alaska. Is she in Alaska? 17 MS. HYDE: I've been given direct orders not to give 18 you her cell phone number. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Canada? 20 MS. HYDE: She's still in Canada. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Canada, okay. We can call 22 her in Canada. 23 MR. EMERSON: She's not on the ship that ran 24 aground, so that's good. 25 MS. HYDE: Right. She's fine. 5-14-07 169 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The good news is, her mother-in-law 3 is on that ship. (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move to strike that. Can 5 we send a copy to Alaska? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Just seemed opportune. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With your permission, Letz, 8 you take this and see if you can get our administrative 9 assistant -- that would be a good one to start. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Start on. If she hasn't thrown 11 the rest of them away, we've ... okay. Do we need -- we can 12 go ahead, and I'll make a motion to approve the janitorial 13 services -- janitorial services agreement as modified today, 14 and authorize the Judge to sign same. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The expiration date of? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the future ones. This one 18 will be September 30th, 2007, and future ones will start 19 October 1st. But why don't we just do this one, just right to 20 this date, then add the automatic renewal and all that stuff? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It's your call. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion is just to have this one 23 for the period of five months. Then we'll do the new one with 24 the renewal provision in our -- in our next one starting 25 October 1. 5-14-07 170 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How are you going to remember 2 to -- 3 MR. EMERSON: So, you're going to run with this 4 contract. I just need to fix the other one for 5 September 30th; is that correct? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But isn't this annual? So we 7 need to have one with a fixed expiration date of 8 September 30th. What's the termination date of this one? Oh, 9 yeah. Yeah, we need to fill in the blanks. This one's fine 10 the way it is. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You wore me out. 12 MR. EMERSON: That's what I thought you said. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what would you do 14 October 1? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Start -- do a new one. Jody's 16 going to remember. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's already in here till 18 September 31st (sic) in the second -- in the second paragraph. 19 MS. HYDE: But you do want a line for evergreen, 20 right? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we change September 31 to 23 September 30? 24 MS. HYDE: 30th? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not like leap year. 5-14-07 171 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 2 agreement. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As presented. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 6 of the agreement as presented, for the remainder of this 7 current fiscal year. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any question or 10 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay, looks like 16 we are to a couple of closed or executive session items. Is 17 anybody not on that same page with me? Okay. At this time, 18 it is 2:31, and we will go out of open or public session to go 19 into closed or executive session to consider the two items for 20 executive session. 21 (The open session was closed at 2:31 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 22 is contained in a separate document.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we're now back in open or 25 public session. Does any member of the Court have anything to 5-14-07 172 1 offer on anything that was considered in closed or executive 2 session? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the first item? Oh, 5 we're not doing anything on either one of them. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Hearing nothing, let's go to 7 item -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioners' reports. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Item 5 on the agenda. Does any 10 member of the Court have any reports to render in connection 11 with their committee or liaison assignments? Commissioner 12 Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We had a -- we had the Kerr 14 County side of the joint dispatch meeting last week, and we 15 have a joint meeting with the City tomorrow at 2 o'clock. And 16 we'll report more later. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Excellent. Anything else? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Criminal Justice 21 Advisory Committee recommended, and the AACOG Board approved 22 Kids Advocacy Place Victim Trauma Program for 57,482, and that 23 moves on down the conduit for somebody else to make a decision 24 on, as well as the Hill Country Crisis Council, the VOCA, 25 Victim Assistance project, 108,723 was approved by the Board. 5-14-07 173 1 And the Kerr County Victims Services Department, Crime Rights 2 Coordinator, for 53,018. All those move on to the next level. 3 Texas State Data Center says that as of right now, Kerr County 4 has 47,020 people here. But the Water Development Board says 5 that we have 46,452, so you figure. By 2010 of the census, 6 the Texas Data Center says we will be at 50,457, and the Water 7 Development Board says we'll be at 49,250. So, somewhere in 8 between those two numbers is probably where we'll be. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last week -- last Thursday, 13 there was a meeting between myself and City of Kerrville staff 14 related to the ETJ issues. Commissioner Baldwin was unable to 15 make that meeting. I think we've got all but basically two 16 items worked out on how to do subdivision platting in the ETJ. 17 Those issues are street lights and -- something else. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Curbs? Gutters? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, street lights and parks -- 20 park land dedication. And I told them I would put a question 21 mark on both of those, and we would discuss it at the county 22 level. And Mr. Hoffmann said no, the County was not required, 23 under where we are in our agreement, to review this again; 24 that it -- and I said yes, the County was going to review it 25 again, and we would decide at that point if we were going to 5-14-07 174 1 continue with the City under the current arrangement, which I 2 think we probably will. They are willing to accept a lot of 3 the -- county drainage rules are -- they're going to use 4 instead of the City. I think our rules are better than 5 theirs. I'm not sure they fully understand ours, but -- 6 and -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Street width? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Street width, pretty much 9 they're going with our specs for streets and roads over there, 10 so -- ours are better. So, anyway, it's give and take. 11 They're pretty adamant on street lights; they want street 12 lights, cul-de-sacs, and intersections. I told them -- but 13 there is a variance way to do it. And on the park land 14 dedication, because of a loophole in the current city system, 15 it really never applies to the County, even though it would be 16 in the rules. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you pretty certain we're 18 going to continue this harmonious relationship? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we will. The biggest 20 problem is -- and it's a city problem -- has been, in this 21 whole process, their rules are horrible. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That says it all. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The relationship you were talking 24 about. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lasted four seconds. Four 5-14-07 175 1 seconds. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a record. 3 (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't trying to be funny. 5 And they acknowledge this same thing. They acknowledge their 6 rules are bad. Their subdivision rules have not been 7 written -- or rewritten and revised in a long, long time. It 8 is a very big process for them to do it. Ours are much more 9 concise and are given to us under one set of Local Government 10 Codes. Theirs come from lots of different angles, evidently. 11 And there are -- I mean, there's lots of language -- they 12 refer to -- as an example, O.S.S.F., they refer to everything 13 needs to be referred in the ETJ to U.G.R.A. It doesn't say 14 Designated Representative; doesn't say, you know, Kerr 15 County -- U.G.R.A. working for them. It says U.G.R.A. Well, 16 that's never been right. I mean, so they just have a lot of 17 problems like that. They acknowledge that. They're going to 18 -- I think Mr. Hoffmann's going to get the City Council to do 19 a rewrite of their rules for subdivisions. And this is a -- 20 works pretty well in the interim. 21 Another thing, Airport Board. Most of you are aware 22 that the constituent representatives, which are Bill and 23 myself from the County and Mayor Smith and Chuck Coleman from 24 the City, voted to nominate Fred Vogt, who lives in Tierra 25 Linda, to fill the vacancy of Dr. John Davis on the Airport 5-14-07 176 1 Board. Very well-qualified individual. I don't know him very 2 well. I've only met him one time briefly at a meeting. I 3 think Bill's met him twice at meetings. Bill and I are going 4 to meet with him later this week and really try to get to know 5 him a little bit better before we bring him to the Court for 6 approval of that nomination. Very long, drawn-out process of 7 discussions with our City counterparts on arriving at a single 8 representative. But I will say, a lot of knowledge by a lot 9 of nominees. I think there were seven or eight nominees. 10 Almost all of them -- which all of them were very well 11 qualified. And we were able to settle on -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd say four of them were 13 really top-drawer. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it was very -- I know 15 there's been a lot of interest in the airport, but Mr. Vogt 16 brings a wealth of information. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And experience. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And experience. Former Top Gun 19 pilot, commanded the -- the naval airports worldwide, 20 including all the aircraft carriers. So -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And was the Director of 22 Aviation for the state of Tennessee. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before moving to Kerr 25 County. 5-14-07 177 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Life-long bureaucrat. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That'll be on the agenda for Friday. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jon and I have having lunch 5 with him tomorrow. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is he the guy that owns the 7 fighter jet, that old jet? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Barnett. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was John Barnett, his 11 brother, and he was not selected. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But he was one of the four 13 top candidates. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the two top candidates. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Yeah, right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very little. I'll cut it 20 short, because I know you're in a hurry to get to juveniles. 21 Animal Control, I think they adopted out over 40 animals this 22 last month. The place is cleaned up; it's looking good. The 23 web site's up and running, dah, dah, dah, dah. I can tell you 24 a lot more about it, but we're -- anyway, Highway 1340 and 39 25 bridge projects, Phase 1 is a go, after our public meeting 5-14-07 178 1 that was held with TexDOT last Thursday. Ag Barn we've been 2 discussing today quite a bit. Environmental Health is doing 3 well. Roy is in full swing, working, getting his feet on the 4 ground. And I talked to him the other day; he's doing pretty 5 good. That's all I have. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Have any reports from elected 7 officials? No? 8 MR. EMERSON: Very quickly, one comment, and that's 9 it. I talked to Mr. Walraven, who has subsequently called me 10 back and said that there is a software litigation specialist 11 in San Antonio that would be willing to come up here and talk 12 to the County about a contingency Odyssey case issue if 13 there's any interest on behalf of the County. But I know the 14 Odyssey problems are still ongoing, on a daily basis, so just 15 throwing that out for y'all's consideration. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a -- the guy's a 17 consultant, so he'd charge us $200 or $300 a day to come up 18 here and visit with us? 19 MR. EMERSON: No. No, this guy is a -- is a 20 computer software litigation attorney. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Attorney, okay. 22 MR. EMERSON: Who, in the interest of a contingency 23 case -- obviously, any attorney is not going to take it and 24 run with it without having some background and being sure they 25 actually have a case. And he would be willing to come up here 5-14-07 179 1 with Mr. Walraven and talk to members of the County to 2 determine if that's even a feasibility. You know, do we have 3 a case or not? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think we have a case 5 or not? 6 MR. EMERSON: I think we have some significant 7 issues. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they need to be 9 talked about. 10 MR. EMERSON: I don't know enough about that area of 11 the law to be able to comment on whether we have a case or 12 not. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know the guy stood in 14 this room and made some statements that are flat not true. 15 One was that they're going to fix all of our problems before 16 they go out and sell any more, and if you look on the back of 17 the -- the entire back page of the County Progress magazine is 18 their ad selling their products. And they have fixed 19 basically nothing here. And we've spent how much? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Close to a million dollars. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A million dollars. I just 22 think we need to hold them accountable. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? We'll be 25 adjourned. 5-14-07 180 1 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:45 p.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 4 5 6 STATE OF TEXAS | 7 COUNTY OF KERR | 8 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 9 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 10 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 11 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 12 heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of 14 May, 2007. 15 16 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 17 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-14-07