1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Friday, July 13, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 13, 2007 2 PAGE Budget Workshop 3 City/County Joint Operations 3 4 Library 5 Airport 19 5 Fire 31 Health/EMS 52 6 Animal Control 57 7 Employee Health Benefits 65 8 Human Resources/Personnel Policies 85 9 --- Adjourned 93 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Friday, July 13, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was 3 held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'll call to order this 8 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court 9 scheduled for this date and time, Friday, July the 13th, 2007, 10 at 9 a.m. It's past that time now. Nothing like a good 11 budget workshop on Friday the 13th. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, boy. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize for this meeting getting 14 rolled over till Friday. The bottom line was, I failed to 15 post it last Friday for Wednesday, so -- but all is well that 16 ends well. We're all here and ready to go. We've got a 17 number of items that are enumerated as per the schedule. The 18 first is City/County joint operations. For -- for reference, 19 I'm going to be making the agenda item much broader, very 20 similar to what I did last year, which will allow us to not be 21 so tightly bracketed with what we've got here, so that if we 22 get rolled over into other areas, we won't be outside of the 23 agenda and so forth, so we're going to be in a position to 24 have a little bit more latitude. The second item that I need 25 to bring to your attention is, the second meeting is scheduled 7-13-07 bwk 4 1 for next Wednesday, the 18th. I will not be present for that 2 meeting. And, coincidentally, that's when the two budgets 3 that I'm most directly involved in come up, but that's fine. 4 If -- if there's any desire to change that meeting to next 5 Friday, we can still do that, but I'm scheduled to be out of 6 state, and I cannot change that. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, you can't. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I can't. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that item, Judge, I think 10 it's important that we're all -- I mean -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably change it to Friday. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Friday doesn't seem to be a 14 problem there? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like the idea of all of us 16 being present. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Otherwise, we'll go back and 18 we'll rehash again anyway. Let's try to get through these 19 things one time only. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, make it for the 20th? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I appreciate y'all's 23 cooperation in that, but I cannot -- cannot avoid my 24 commitment. It isn't for me, but it is for somebody else. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems like Betsy's involved in 7-13-07 bwk 5 1 there, to me. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The youngest daughter is becoming 3 wed. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You better be there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That is a life or death 6 situation for me, isn't it? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No question. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. The City/County, 9 we've got -- I think we're going to be sorely lacking 10 information, because we don't have it from the City. Our 11 meeting is scheduled with them, joint meeting, for August 6th; 12 is that right? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That sounds about right. And I 16 suspect they're going to be presenting us with specific 17 information, but let's do what we can for right now. Library. 18 Commissioner Oehler, what do you have on the library? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was proposed to us was 20 a -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are we on? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's the last one. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It'll be 26. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do not -- I'm waiting for 7-13-07 bwk 6 1 that budget proposal to come from the City, and it should be 2 here somehow or another, if they decide to release it to us, 3 in the very short near future. I've got Jody working on it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Keeping it secret? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's the same, basically, as 6 it was presented last year. They tried to have a 2 percent 7 increase over what we -- or what y'all budgeted last year, 8 which was about approximately $8,800 more. And I told them 9 that I couldn't see us doing that because they'd increased it 10 so much the year before. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Generally, I mean, because of 12 other matters, I tend to meet with Mr. Hofmann on a somewhat 13 regular basis, and he has several times made a comment about 14 the library that, you know, I'm a little bit puzzled by. 15 But -- you know, and it's that he feels that we are past 16 issues with the library because of the comments I made, and he 17 felt that the Court kind of went behind at our last joint 18 meeting. And my recollection of my basic concept or comments 19 were that the County would do a flat amount of funding, and 20 they'd kind of do a lot more, you know, operations the way 21 they wanted to. But I don't recall anything being formal. 22 You know, I think that's -- I said we were going to fund a 23 certain amount and leave it at that; the City could do what 24 they want. I haven't recalled -- or don't recall us having 25 any further discussions on that, of us changing the operation 7-13-07 bwk 7 1 structure of the library, but evidently he seems to think that 2 there's something in the works. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, in that -- I'm sorry, 4 Bill. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In that same discussion, it 7 was also talked about us zeroing out. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, long-term, it was going 10 from a certain amount to zero. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Start coming down. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Over 10 years. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Year after year, it was 14 going to start coming down. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't -- you know, but 16 nothing's happened, to my knowledge, though he seems to -- 17 he's twice brought it up, and I just kind of passed over it, 18 because -- I mean, yes, there was a discussion. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's take formal action and 20 get that thing rocking. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like Bruce's suggestion 22 that we trade our piece of the library for their piece of the 23 airport. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that the -- you 25 know, anyway, I think that's something that we need to, I 7-13-07 bwk 8 1 mean, find out if they really want to go down that path. I 2 mean, it's not a big issue this year, 'cause they're keeping 3 the funding basically the same, as I understand it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you remember at the 5 joint City/County meeting, he kind of threw out a challenge to 6 City Council after all that discussion that the ball was sort 7 of in their court in terms of what they wanted to do, whether 8 they wanted to own it and operate it totally by themselves, 9 whether they wanted a library district, or there might have 10 been a third option. If there was, I don't recall what it 11 was. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Third option was we make a specific 13 sum contribution, period, and that's it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that we kind of get out of 16 the arguments over the budget. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just fund what we think is 19 appropriate, and that's it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But having done -- having 21 said that to the City Council, I don't recall any responses 22 back. Have you received any responses back? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No. And there's no question in my 24 mind that Commissioner Letz put them on notice -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7-13-07 bwk 9 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that we don't want to keep doing 2 this, and here's what I see as the options available. That 3 followed behind the -- the disclosure that, well, what we 4 really need is a whole brand-new facility. And I think 5 probably the thinking was, if you're going to start on 6 something brand-new, that would be a good time for you folks 7 to start on it and just leave us out of the game. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- and I think 9 they're doing that. I mean, Councilman Gross, I know, very 10 much thinks that whole facility needs to be abandoned and a 11 new library built somewhere else in town, and I don't know 12 what happens to that property. And I think they are looking 13 down that path. So, I think it -- maybe it's appropriate 14 that, you know, we fund it at the same level we did last year, 15 like I think has been discussed. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know they're looking down 17 that path, because that's one reason why there's not any more 18 budget plan, or proposed from the city side of what they want 19 to do in the future with that building. They are not going to 20 fund hardly anything, and I don't believe anything at all 21 other than regular maintenance. They're not going to do any 22 major renovation or anything like that to that building, 23 because they are looking -- they're redoing their five-year 24 plan, and that is one of the things they're studying, is what 25 they're going to do about that library. Because they realize 7-13-07 bwk 10 1 that that building is -- is obsolete for a library. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I think at our -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That poses -- you know, that 4 still poses an issue for us. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they make that 7 determination that a new facility is needed, and I don't think 8 anybody will argue that, then -- then that poses a question. 9 Are we going to participate? To what extent? Or if not, 10 what's our -- what's our role? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we fund a flat amount, 12 because we feel -- I mean, I don't have a problem with funding 13 a flat amount, because I think it is a benefit to the county, 14 as long as the county people get to have use of it, you know. 15 And I don't care if they have to pay a fee; that doesn't 16 bother me at all, but I think it's a -- it is good for the 17 community as a whole to have a good library. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that -- you know, to 20 me, it's kind of a -- backing down to a point and then level 21 it off, and we'll continue to fund it at that level. And, you 22 know -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Until they -- you know, at 24 some point in time, if they want to come back with something 25 down the road and say, "Well, we need additional funds to help 7-13-07 bwk 11 1 do this," and -- and the Court could make -- could have the 2 option at that time to either fund it or not fund it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just doing a flat fee is a lot 4 better than a partnership. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like -- I asked them where 6 they got the $8,800 or $8,900 increase, and they said, well, 7 that was based on a 2 percent projected increase. And I said, 8 well, you know, I don't understand that at all, you know, 9 because I can't see that you're going to expend all the funds 10 that are in there this year. Antonio is -- he's overspent in 11 some, but it wasn't really his fault; it was, like, 12 electricity. You know, utilities have gone up because 13 everything has gone up. But other -- other areas of that 14 budget are still running at, you know, 35, 40 percent of the 15 money left in those line items. And whether he's going to try 16 to spend it all at the end of the year, I don't know, but -- 17 and I mentioned to the Judge a while ago, it seems to me 18 that -- that, you know, we fund this, and that we need some 19 kind of a recap at the end of the year of what moneys are left 20 over. And, you know, it seems to me that that either needs to 21 get -- be applied against next year's contribution or be 22 returned to the County. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Applied with permission. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: To next year's contribution. 7-13-07 bwk 12 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With permission from 2 Commissioners Court to do so. But just give -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've been down that road. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- giving them a check and 5 then not getting an end-of-the-year balance of what those 6 funds are left over that aren't expended, I don't think -- do 7 we get anything like that, that you know of? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not that we're aware of. 9 But I think, under the current scenario, we are entitled. If 10 we change it to a flat fee, you know, if they come under -- I 11 guess they keep -- which I don't have a real problem. I think 12 we may be funding at a lesser amount, but I think under the 13 current -- we haven't changed any relationship at this point, 14 and that needs to be worked out during the next year, if we're 15 going to. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I missed that 17 piece. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said we need to -- if we're -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The relationship? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the library, we're -- City 21 and County, if we're going to change to what, you know, I 22 think most of us probably -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anything other than a 50-50 24 relationship. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. We're going to fund a 7-13-07 bwk 13 1 flat amount, and that's it; they can do what they want. And I 2 think -- but that needs to be reduced to a contract or 3 interlocal agreement between the two entities, and get rid of 4 the current agreement. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree with that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, last year we gave them 7 $8,800 -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever the number was. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four hundred -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 450. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 443. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, 443. And then this 14 year we're going to give them 443 on top of that 443, and the 15 next year we're giving another 443 on top of that 443. Is 16 that what you're saying? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying we -- I think I have 18 no problem with one more year doing 443. Then I think go down 19 to 400, then 350, then -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or maybe we leave it at 443. I 22 mean, you know -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd rather see us attempt to 24 reduce it, personally, to a point of -- just an example, this 25 is just a number, pulling it out of the air -- $200,000, and 7-13-07 bwk 14 1 then maintain that $200,000 from -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or adjust it every once in a 3 while, every now and then as we see fit. Yeah, I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or trade one of the joint 5 services for another. One do one and one do the other 6 individually, independently of the other. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for that, what you're 8 saying. I just don't think that they'll go for that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They aren't going to go for 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They probably won't go for it, 12 but, you know, I -- anyway... 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, what's wrong with doing 15 what we talked about in terms of systematically reducing it 16 down to what we think is an appropriate level, like, this year 17 cutting it down to 400, next year 350? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to -- I think 19 we need to get an agreement in place prior to doing that, or 20 simultaneously with doing that. And that can be done. We 21 can, you know, put them on notice that we want -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could do that if we 23 establish what we think is our baseline number. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Probably need to get 25 the Judge to write them a letter and tell them of our intent, 7-13-07 bwk 15 1 and then -- and then come up with some kind of formal 2 agreement to sign. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, at our joint meeting, we 4 can give them a proposal. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can decide. And, I mean, 7 it's going to be arbitrary. You said 200,000. I'd probably 8 be comfortable at 300,000, or 250, somewhere in there. And 9 that's where we'll continue to fund it, at that level, and 10 pretty much they can -- you know, as long as they're using it 11 for library purposes, they can do what they want. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think last year what 13 we talked about was, over a period of time, three or four 14 years, whatever, getting to that level that we were 15 comfortable with for our sustaining relationship basis. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'd say we take -- you know, 17 if we start at next year -- or we can do it this year; doesn't 18 make any difference to me. We can maybe reduce it 50,000 a 19 year till we get to what we want. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where I'm at. That's 21 what I would -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 400 this year, then 350, then 24 300, so in three years we're there. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7-13-07 bwk 16 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What are you going to base 2 that theory on? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all arbitrary, 4 Commissioner. It's what we feel we're comfortable with, based 5 on -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We think it's worth that much to 7 the county to have that library available to -- you know, for 8 the public. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have an obligation to 10 Kerr County -- Kerr County taxpayers that live in the city. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, by the same token, the 13 bulk of the statistics of use are in the city, not in the 14 county. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're right. I asked those 16 statistics, and you're exactly right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we just have to figure 18 out what we're comfortable with and what makes sense. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a way to get the whole 20 discussion moving forward is to do what Commissioner Baldwin 21 said, but I'd just do it at the meeting, say, "Here's our 22 proposal." 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I'm not sure, under our 24 agenda, if we can take any action -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 7-13-07 bwk 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- directing that to happen at this 2 point. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're probably right. That 4 would be the place to do it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or put it on our next agenda. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Or you can do that, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way, we can authorize -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just do it at that meeting. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or do it at the meeting, okay. 10 All right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Bruce going to make that 12 presentation? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. They don't like 14 me. They can start not liking Bruce. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can help you spell cuss 16 words; that's about the extent of it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can't figure out why I get 18 assigned with this. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Either I'll bring it, or -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz would love to. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's Letz'. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: He will continue to wear the black 24 hat, right? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turn him loose. 7-13-07 bwk 18 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we crashed and thrashed 2 the library? Okay. Where do we go now? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question, 4 though. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have revenue projections. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question, back 7 on the library issue. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to go down to the 10 300,000? Is that the -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Everybody get one? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, don't we need 13 to have some kind of agreement on a number? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do. We need to know what 15 our benchmark is. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 300 I think is fine. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 300's fine with me. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a big number, but it's a 19 reduced number. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not a lot different 22 than other counties have done with their relationship on 23 libraries with cities. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What are we looking 25 at? 7-13-07 bwk 19 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could take up the airport 2 next. Ms. Hargis just gave me the number. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're -- that's on Page 63, I 4 think it is. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Previous page. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's City/County operations. 7 Airport operations. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like we budgeted 195 for 9 this year. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have no information -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, other than what came in today. 13 The City has not, in advance, provided me with anything with 14 regard to -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But they did give it to the 16 Airport Board at the last meeting, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz and I both 19 have it, and both misplaced it, but there's the number. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Believe it or not, it's 22 going down. It was 195 this current budget year. It's going 23 to be 188,334, and that breaks down to 155 is our share of the 24 contract for services, and 33,334 is our share of the grant 25 matches. 7-13-07 bwk 20 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You said how much? 180-what? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 188,334. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's what they're requesting? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what the Airport 5 Board approved. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like a request to me. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure does. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're obviously -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We discussed at our last meeting 12 that there's a lot of discussions going on as to Airport 13 Manager and a new Airport Manager going to be hired and all of 14 that. The feeling by the Airport Board was that there will -- 15 there may be budget amendments, but that -- internally in the 16 Airport Board budget, but this total is a good number to work 17 off of. And if there's -- you know, if it happens to be on 18 the high side, then it would be reflected -- reduced in next 19 year's budget. So, it's what we think is a good number. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Jeannie. 21 Appreciate that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, could we -- could we 24 go back to the library just one more time, now that the 25 Auditor's in the room? 7-13-07 bwk 21 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and tell her what our 3 thoughts are, and then get a response from her? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to let her take 5 Commissioner Letz' black hat and send her down there, or what? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's not a bad idea. 7 Or take -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: She seems enthusiastic about that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ready to put that hat on. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She could take Commissioner 11 Letz with her. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- yeah, I think that's a 13 good idea. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just -- I'd like to hear 15 what she has to say about that. She may -- she may know 16 something to head us off or change some numbers or something. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the discussion at our 18 last joint meeting was the -- the County would come up with a 19 flat funding fee that we're going to get -- that we want to 20 fund the library at, get rid of the joint -- just give the 21 City a check every year, and that's our portion, and it would 22 be reduced from the current amount over time down to a number. 23 We have come up kind of -- kind of with the number as being to 24 get to 300,000 as an annual contribution, and do it over three 25 years. 7-13-07 bwk 22 1 MS. HARGIS: Okay, and then be finished. I don't 2 think -- I think they're preparing for it. This is going to 3 be a bad year for the City, but I don't -- there's money in 4 that donation account; a lot of that could be used this year. 5 And then you have the Friends of the Library, so -- and they 6 have a lot of money too, I understand, they need to give. So, 7 I think they'll be fine. It'll give them an opportunity to 8 budget for the next three years. I think it's fair. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'd go from 443 this year to 10 400 this year, then 350, then 300, and leave it at 300 for -- 11 and then, you know -- and, of course, I think the County would 12 be open for -- if certain things come up, you know, they need 13 additional funding for a certain thing, we'd consider that. 14 But, you know, this is more to separate the bickering. 15 Basically, we give them an amount; they can do what they want 16 with it, as long as it's used for library purposes. 17 MS. HARGIS: And there wasn't really -- after that 18 meeting last year that they -- everybody was really responsive 19 to that. There wasn't any conflict over it, so I think 20 that'll be a good idea. I think that moving towards them 21 owning the library or paying for it totally would probably be 22 a good thing. They are having a facility plan done. I think 23 you know that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MS. HARGIS: And that may make a big difference in 7-13-07 bwk 23 1 the next year, because Scott Gross wants to move the library 2 from that location to a one-story brand-new building where the 3 space is better. You lose so much space because of the 4 roundness of the building, and to repair that building was 5 just going to be really expensive. And I think -- you weren't 6 necessarily there, but I think the balcony can be done, but it 7 was, like, a lot of money just to sheer it up to take the 8 weight, and it really wasn't worth the money to do that. 9 And -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was there. I missed one, I 11 think. But the deal is, if they start doing any renovation of 12 that, they're going to have to meet all the A.D.A. 13 requirements, because it is not all A.D.A. compliant at the 14 moment. If you leave it alone, you don't have to do it, but 15 as we well know, if you start changing things, you're going to 16 have to come into compliance, and that's going to be very 17 expensive. 18 MS. HARGIS: But I think this facility plan that the 19 City's going to get is for their whole -- all their 20 facilities, but I know that's one of their plans. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think our thought is we'll 22 make a proposal at our joint meeting coming up, and then 23 get -- if we agree on the concept, then we'll work to a new 24 interlocal agreement that reflects that, as opposed to the 25 current interlocal agreement. 'Cause nothing -- you know, 7-13-07 bwk 24 1 so -- 2 MS. HARGIS: I don't think you'll get any objection 3 from it; I really don't. Now, maybe Kristine won't think so 4 -- don't put that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll get the objections. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good deal. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything more on the airport? 8 That seems to be pretty well nailed down. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioners Williams and Letz have 11 both been participating on that on a pretty active basis. So, 12 let me make an observation at this point. Ms. Hargis has been 13 kind enough to furnish us with a revenue projection. I 14 certainly hope this is conservative. Let me explain why. For 15 example, it shows ad valorem taxes, 6.875, which is $300,000 16 less than what was shown in the -- in the fund balance summary 17 that was given to me here less than a month ago, where our tax 18 revenue was 7 million, 175. Apparently that was -- I think 19 that was a hard figure, the 7.175. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it was. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the ad valorem tax component of 22 -- of going into next year, at least based on this estimate, 23 is $300,000 less. 24 MS. HARGIS: And I don't know why. I just went in, 25 and he told me he made the projection, and so I just pulled 7-13-07 bwk 25 1 it. And I don't know if these are -- I'm sure they're real 2 preliminary, 'cause -- but I haven't -- haven't done it. I 3 mean, I can go back with the preliminary roll and figure it if 4 you want. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have the -- do you have the 6 initial tax roll information from the Tax Assessor? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Jeannie, on J.P. 10 fines, midway down, it shows -- unless, my line's off, it's 11 showing J.P. 4, 139,000; J.P. 3, 77,000. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got a lot of interstate. 13 MS. HYDE: J.P. 3 is kicking. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think J.P. 3 is way ahead of 15 J.P. 4 this year. 16 MS. HARGIS: These are for next year. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. This 18 year's numbers are higher. That number may be -- I'm 19 wondering where the projected number came from. Last time I 20 talked to Kathy, she thought, you know, she was ahead of any 21 other precincts. 22 MS. HARGIS: Please understand, Tommy's not here, 23 and I really -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just something to look at. 25 Because -- I mean, it's not a huge number, doesn't have a big 7-13-07 bwk 26 1 budgetary impact one way or another, but I know that J.P. 3 2 has -- and it may be just that J.P. 3 could go up, which will 3 give us a little bit more revenue. I don't think J.P. 3 -- 4 nothing's changed out there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple of 6 questions on Page 2. County Prosecutor salary supplement. 7 Remind me of what that is. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- this is -- County Attorney 9 salary comes in two components, the county component and then 10 some comes from the state. Off the top of my head, it's 11 approximately -- I can't give you an exact figure, but 12 somewhere around $30,000. 13 MS. HYDE: $33,500. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do you see that 15 number? 16 MS. HYDE: 'Cause I put together something for y'all 17 in a little bit. You might -- I don't know; maybe you want 18 it. I've never been -- I've never been involved in this, so 19 I'm really not sure what to bring. So, by george, y'all got 20 lots of stuff. So, what I did -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's hold off for a minute. 22 MS. HYDE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do one question at a 24 time here. So, that's his supplement from the state that he's 25 donating to the county? 7-13-07 bwk 27 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, that -- this is funded in 2 from the state and then paid out through us to him. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: As a part of his salary. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. All right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's a separate budget component, 7 because it's a state supplement that comes in to this county. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we do your supplement the 9 same way? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we do your supplement the 12 same way? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it comes in -- it's paid in to 14 the County Treasurer, and then it's paid out to me, just like 15 it's paid out -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that on this -- are you on 17 this list? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I would assume so. I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, you're supposed 20 to know this stuff. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just got this today. And 22 Ms. Hargis -- I only asked for it about 20 minutes ago, so I 23 feel -- I feel real fortunate to have -- I was surprised to 24 see it come in the door. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then the next one 7-13-07 bwk 28 1 is H.A.V.A. compliance funds, 294,000. Is that kind of the 2 same thing? Of course, not a supplement, but it comes in from 3 the federales and then is disbursed properly, or -- I mean, 4 tell me about that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question about 6 that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we got any H.A.V.A. 8 funds that are going to be coming this year. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would be surprised if we 10 had any coming this year. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would too. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got that big chunk last 13 year -- last time to get the equipment. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, in the final analysis, 15 this -- that line will be deleted? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then, going down a 19 little ways, House Bill 66. What is -- what is that? I don't 20 recall what 66 is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that relates also to the -- 22 to the County Attorney, if I'm not mistaken. 23 MS. HYDE: I thought that was the one that went for 24 the judges. Wasn't this -- it wasn't H.B. 66. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Isn't that the County Court at 7-13-07 bwk 29 1 Law Judge? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's his revenue. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 MS. HYDE: Part of it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's his supplement? 7 MS. HYDE: Part of it. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think, just from past 9 memory. But it's kind of -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're probably right. 11 64,000 bucks. It's not big enough for the judges, I can tell 12 you that. So -- maybe one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Under the County Court at Law 14 budget, it shows a separate budget, H.B. 66. And -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we change that name so it -- 16 instead of saying H.B. 66, can we say County Court at Law 17 Judge supplement? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We probably need to at least show a 19 parenthetical, County Court at Law. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see yours on here. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah-hah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They took it away. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pat, you may want to check on 25 that. 7-13-07 bwk 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You guys are going to have to help me 2 out here. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's 15 grand, isn't it? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe his is lumped up under 6 various refunds up above. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Thank you for the 8 explanation. Now, I'm assuming that there will be a more 9 accurate update coming soon. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, as soon as you get the 11 release from KCAD, right? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, on the taxes. But we should be 13 able to get a better idea on all the other revenues, I would 14 think, now. I'll get with them Monday and we'll just get it 15 done. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with the Judge that 17 the ad valorem taxes -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Too low. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- should be considerably 20 higher than this. I know I made a contribution from my ad 21 valorem taxes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And mine are going up 23 10 percent. I don't know about yours. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About 10. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mine's up 10, so that must be 7-13-07 bwk 31 1 pretty much what they took. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So why is this going down? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Except for Jonathan. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, fire contract. That's, I 6 think, the page following, is it not? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I apologize for not having 8 that. I -- for some reason, I just assumed that it had come 9 straight to the Judge. He generally calls me and we sit down, 10 and he hasn't done that, so I just assumed it went straight in 11 to the Judge. And I also assume that it'll be presented to us 12 at our meeting. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's probably when we're 14 going to get it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or I can call. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, at the meeting. I 17 know I -- again, from my numerous visits with the City 18 Manager, he feels that we are -- this is way underfunded, and 19 I would anticipate, though he has not told me, that there will 20 be an increase here. Which probably -- you know, and I told 21 him that if they would give us more than one truck, we could 22 probably consider giving them some more money, and that was 23 where the conversation ended. But, anyway -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Always end on a high note, 25 don't you? 7-13-07 bwk 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I just know -- I would 2 anticipate that they would like to have this increased, and it 3 would probably not be a bad idea of increasing it. I mean, if 4 we -- you know, almost propose increasing it. Just thoughts. 5 Because they -- I mean, it is very important to the county. I 6 mean, I think that they don't look at it the way I think it 7 needs to be looked at, but I think it could be an increased 8 amount. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, god. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Possibly -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 43,000. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You -- your weekly breakfast meeting 13 with the City Manager, maybe you should be doing that maybe 14 twice a week. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Come on, Jon. Come in here 16 with firm numbers. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He volunteers this information 18 to me. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you buy the breakfast 20 tacos or does he? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- we haven't had -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have any insight into 23 that number, Jeannie? Possibly? 24 MS. HARGIS: I'm waiting. And I just called, and 25 there's supposed to be a letter on its way over here as we 7-13-07 bwk 33 1 speak, this morning, so it should be here pretty soon. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, on the volunteer fire 3 departments, I think we ought to increase them this year if we 4 can. We haven't, I don't believe, in a couple years. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't done it in 6 several years. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think we need to go to 8 15,000. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because their costs have gone up 11 greatly, you know, just from a fuel standpoint, if nothing 12 else. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the thing is, they put 14 out one heck of a service for not a whole lot of money 15 compared to what we pay the city of Kerrville. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it this way, though. 17 Let's increase it by a flat number, because not everybody -- 18 you know, some of them you have -- you only give $1,000 to. 19 You don't want to raise from it 1,000 to 15,000. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, let's give a $2,000 or 22 whatever -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All those that get 13, we 24 take them to 15. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other ones go to two. 7-13-07 bwk 34 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the other ones we give 2 just whatever. I'm curious as to why -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like a pretty good increase, 4 two. Maybe 1,500? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to two. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got a couple of them 7 over 13,000. I wonder how they got there. Center Point and 8 Mountain Home, both of them are a tad over for this budget 9 year. I'm curious as to how they got over. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those are normally based, from 11 past experience, on the costs of their insurance, both. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know that Mountain Home is 14 that way. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Mountain Home and Center 16 Point? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know about Center 18 Point. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the two that caught 20 my eye. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ingram's at 16. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ingram's up to 16 also. 23 That's interesting, 'cause we only -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budgeted 13. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We budgeted 13, but they've 7-13-07 bwk 35 1 gotten 16. That's kind of interesting. All of them are 2 budgeted at 13 except Tierra Linda. 3 MS. HARGIS: Now, I just -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the current budget is 5 13, though. I would estimate actual is 2005 and '6. But 6 13 -- whatever it is. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: There's not any of them that I have 8 here as of March 31 that have been paid more than authorized. 9 Divide's the only one that's drawn all the money. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I think 15 and 2, or 15 11 and 1,500 for the ones that are -- Castle Lake and Tierra 12 Linda. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got 2,000 already 14 written in. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, 2,000. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 2,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On those two. The rest of them 18 go to 15,000. Still work? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a lot of money for a whole 21 lot of benefit. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the Castle Lake out 23 there? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the area you gave me down 25 in Bandera -- near Bandera, that corner. 7-13-07 bwk 36 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to increase 2 that? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, to 2,000. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2,000. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In that area, more and more, 6 percentage-wise especially, homes are being built in Kerr 7 County down there. That's a pretty good area. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All that Privilege Creek activity, 9 isn't it, Buster? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Privilege Creek is 11 over the hill. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other side of the hill. 13 This is -- this area is so -- so confusing, it's served by 14 Southwestern Bell. No one's figured out how they got there, 15 but Southwestern Bell serves this area instead of Hill Country 16 Co-Op or Guadalupe. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does Castle Lake VFW come 18 out of Pipe Creek? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's Pipe Creek, is what 20 it is. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. I know where that 22 is. There's no Kendall County roads leading to it. It's 23 Bandera County roads, and partially Kerr. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a Kerr County road that 25 goes into Kendall County. 7-13-07 bwk 37 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there's one that goes 2 from Bandera into Kerr into Kendall. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to find out if we can 4 use Kendall County roads. We need to find out if our fire 5 departments can use the Kendall County roads. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We only repair our piece. 7 The other two pieces have gone to hell in a handbasket. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back to this over 9 13,000 thing. The actual at 2005-2006, which, in my mind, 10 that was last year, how did it get over 13? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: One possible explanation would be 12 because of some wildfire funds -- FEMA funds that came in. 13 They -- they got some money. Tierra Linda also got some of 14 that, and you see that theirs is above, too. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if they -- if they get -- 16 if they get donations, does it show up in our budget as well? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but that -- it could have 18 been off the Sheppard Rees fire. Some of that stuff took a 19 long time to process through, and then it could have been -- 20 they may have had more FEMA funds from another source. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: These were under the wildfires -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we had in some areas, and you 24 had -- I know Ingram was involved. I know Tierra Linda was 25 involved. And we did a submission to FEMA, and they got some 7-13-07 bwk 38 1 money and it came through the county. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. It's a pass-through. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So we had to bring it in and then pay 4 it out, but it was actually their money for their 5 participation. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did not spend over 13,000. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of our county tax -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This was that same declaration 10 that was statewide by the governor, the same way the big fire 11 was up north, Buster, that burned that town up. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's part of that same 14 disaster declaration. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You can see there are three 16 departments; there's Mountain Home, Ingram, and Tierra Linda. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And we did -- actually, I handled the 19 submission of all of that information in to FEMA, and then 20 they brought the money back to us and we -- and we distributed 21 it back out. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would explain it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Good explanation. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What's the -- 7-13-07 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Look at Jody; she acts like 2 she's got something. 3 MS. GRINSTEAD: There's the preliminary numbers and 4 there's the official, the copies. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Here we have the preliminary 6 for the library. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are those all the same? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. Let me find 9 out. 10 MS. HARGIS: Do you want me to go make copies? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everybody gets one. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, I have a participation 14 form. Mr. Benham, you wish to be heard concerning the 15 library, I presume? 16 MR. BENHAM: Yes, Your Honor. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry we haven't moved the podium 18 here. If you'd like, you -- no, that's okay. He can just 19 remain in place there, if he can speak loud enough for us to 20 hear, and I think he can. 21 MR. BENHAM: I think that's a safe assumption, Your 22 Honor. Thank you. I got back in town after nine days out of 23 state very late last night, and didn't discover that this 24 meeting was to take place until I started going through the 25 papers this morning. So -- and I do not have any 7-13-07 bwk 40 1 documentation of what I'm about to say, but I can provide it 2 if you wish it. I got down here just as fast as I could. If 3 I may ask your indulgence, this is the first meeting that I 4 have attended since Commissioner Oehler was elected, and I'd 5 like to congratulate you, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 7 MR. BENHAM: On your -- if you're as assiduous in 8 your work as Mr. Nicholson was, the County will be very 9 well-off, and I'm sure you will. I would like to simply urge 10 you to be as generous, and especially as responsible in 11 allocating funds to the library this year as you have tended 12 to be in the past. If you do that, you will not only be 13 helping this county, but you will be in line with adjoining 14 counties. I am sure that a friend who lives out on the border 15 of Kendall County will attest, Comfort has doubled the size of 16 their library. Gillespie County is putting more than a 17 million dollars into upgrading their library. Junction is 18 spending a good bit on theirs. Harper's library has done so 19 well that the -- it's moved into a new location, and they are 20 adding books and computers and facilities and so forth. I'm 21 sure you know that the good folks in San Antonio just voted a 22 500-plus million dollar bond issue, which includes a lot of 23 money -- I don't have the figure with me, I apologize, but a 24 lot of money for a new and upgraded library. So, there is 25 recognition in this part of the world that libraries are very 7-13-07 bwk 41 1 important. 2 My wife and I just spent the last week and a few 3 days in Virginia and Maryland, and we passed one very nice 4 public library after another as we drove through those 5 communities. So, libraries are not obsolete by any means. 6 People still use them. The other Commissioners, sir, have 7 heard me say this library is used by more people per year than 8 live in Kerr County. If that were -- if you drew a parallel 9 between here and Houston, they'd have to build a library that 10 would accommodate over 4 million people a year. So, this 11 library is used heavily. It is a tremendously valued and 12 valuable resource for this community. I know money is short. 13 I've served on -- I've never had the job you gentlemen have, 14 for which I admire you, by the way, but I have served on 15 school boards. I was president of a property owners' 16 association for 12 years, and I'm president of a couple of 17 local organizations, and I know how hard it is to stretch the 18 money. 19 I'll tell you one quick anecdote on that. When I 20 was on the management committee of our high school back in 21 Houston area before we moved here, the principal came and 22 said, you know, "I've got a terrible problem." He said, "I've 23 got all these parents who are insisting that their children 24 have to be in the top 25 percent of the class in order to get 25 into a college, and I can't put more than 25 percent of the 7-13-07 bwk 42 1 class into the top 25 percent of the class." He said, "If you 2 can help me come up with a formula, it'll sure take a lot of 3 pressure off me." Well, we weren't any more successful than 4 he. 5 But, joking aside, I know that money is scarce. I 6 don't envy you your jobs in trying to find the funds. But 7 just please keep in mind as you're allocating money for the 8 various departments that -- I just heard you talking about 9 fire departments. I was vice chairman of a fire department 10 before I moved here, one of the biggest volunteer fire 11 departments in Texas, in fact. We served an area with over 12 65,000 people, and we had mutual aid agreements with a half a 13 dozen fire departments around us. And, in fact, the city of 14 Houston called on us for help on occasion. So, I -- nobody 15 respects and appreciates volunteer fire departments more than 16 I do. In fact, I now live in a home that's outside the city 17 limits of Kerrville and is served by a volunteer fire 18 department. But while I very much appreciate the importance 19 of public safety -- I wouldn't take a penny away from public 20 safety or anything, but please find the money to keep this 21 wonderful library functioning as well as it does. And that's 22 what I came to say. If have you any questions, I'd be happy 23 to try to answer them, from memory, again. I don't have any 24 figures with me, but I've been at this long enough, I think I 25 know most of the numbers. So -- 7-13-07 bwk 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Benham? 2 MR. BENHAM: Yes? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Benham, this is not a 4 question, but just kind of an update as to what we discussed 5 before you got here. I think you were probably at the last 6 joint City/County meeting, but at that meeting, the idea was 7 floated that the relationship on the library between the City 8 and the County should change, and that the County should fund 9 a flat amount and the City would run the library. I mean, we 10 would just -- you know, that whole concept. The City -- it 11 was kind of in the city's ballpark to kind of look at 12 facilities, look at where they were going, and they are doing 13 that right now. But I think that will be brought up again by 14 me at the meeting, and I know Bruce -- based on a discussion 15 we had earlier, I think there's support on the Court to go in 16 that direction. I think the amount will be reduced over time, 17 but not doing it all at one time, down to -- you know, we've 18 come up with a somewhat arbitrary number of 300,000 a year 19 funding for the library. And -- but -- and there could -- 20 based on what the City's plans are when they do their facility 21 studies, that could be, you know, increased -- decreased over 22 a longer period of time. But I think this year, the funding's 23 pretty much -- we just got the letter; they've actually asked 24 for -- asked for a $13,000 increase over last year, and I 25 think we were going to put in the same as last year before we 7-13-07 bwk 44 1 saw this letter. But, anyway, I -- directionally, I think 2 it's going in a direction to make it more a city library, with 3 the County that's funding a -- a check, and would not be -- we 4 would no longer be involved in the operation side of it. 5 MR. BENHAM: If I can respond to that, Your Honor, 6 the Friends of the Library as a group, and I individually, 7 will certainly work with you in every way we can to try to 8 work out whatever's the best formula for the library and the 9 taxpayers. I will say that an awful lot of people who live in 10 Kerr County outside the city limits of Kerrville use that 11 library. I see people there I know from Hunt, Ingram, Center 12 Point. It's not just a Kerrville library by any means, and I 13 hope that the -- that you'll keep that in mind as you -- as 14 you work on this -- on this funding program. I can certainly 15 see the value of an efficient operation in which only one 16 government entity is responsible for the day-to-day operations 17 of it. I wouldn't argue with that concept for one minute. 18 But please don't -- as you're heading in that direction, 19 please don't think of it as the city of Kerrville library. It 20 is a library that serves the entire area. In fact, we have 21 people -- somebody mentioned Tierra Linda a minute ago. We 22 have people who come in from Tierra Linda and pay $25 a year 23 to use this library, because they like our library better than 24 the one that's closest to them in Gillespie County. So, it's 25 not even just a facility that serves Kerr County, but it is a 7-13-07 bwk 45 1 facility that serves Kerr County, as well as the city of 2 Kerrville, and please don't forget that as you're trying to 3 deal with all of the details of this budget process. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's a definite 5 commitment from the Court -- certainly from me, and I think 6 from the whole Court, to fund the library. It's just how you 7 do it and where the -- I mean, under the current scenario, we 8 hear the argument that city -- the residents of the city of 9 Kerrville are already paying, I mean, the lion's share, 'cause 10 they're paying both the county and the city part. But, 11 anyway, that's kind of directionally where we're headed. I 12 think it will work better. I certainly support the City's 13 facility plan to come up with a way to make a better library, 14 because I think there's a lot of efficiencies in the 15 infrastructure or the structure itself, as opposed to -- I 16 mean, not the -- the way it's done. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Benham. 18 MR. BENHAM: Thank you for your time, gentlemen. I 19 appreciate it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get back -- 21 MR. BENHAM: The rest of them have heard me say, 22 Mr. Oehler, that I know there's a lot more grief than 23 gratitude in public service, and I very much appreciate the 24 work you folks do. Thank you, gentlemen. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 7-13-07 bwk 46 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We need kind words 2 occasionally. 3 MR. BENHAM: Well, you deserve them. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Based on the 5 communication we just got from -- from the City, their request 6 for the city fire contract is 175. And I don't know what the 7 pleasure of the Court is there. It -- based on Commissioner 8 Letz' comments a minute ago, it seems that may be the time to 9 talk about that, because the level of service that's being 10 provided, it appears from that letter, continues to be 11 restricted to one active pumper truck. That's something we're 12 going to have to take up in our meeting. Maybe -- maybe the 13 175 is appropriate if more equipment is made available. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, also, Judge, in here it 15 says that, "I am proposing contributions can incrementally 16 increase over the next several years." I would hope we 17 wouldn't leave that kind of verbiage anywhere. You know, if 18 we can say the next three years or something like that, but 19 not several. What is the definition of several? Is it 10 or 20 2, or -- kind of thing. So -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, my simple response -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the idea of where 23 they're heading. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: My simple response to them is that we 25 budget from year to year, and -- 7-13-07 bwk 47 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and we can only tell them what 3 this year is going to be. We can't make any commitment for 4 any time beyond that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good response. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: There's -- there are other 7 possibilities that loom out there. You and I have talked 8 about those, about standing up another department or 9 departments to serve the area that the city currently serves. 10 Based upon our current contributions, that would cost us, if 11 we stood up two departments, $30,000, one for north and one 12 for south. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got to stand them up to be 14 able to do that. I have a question on the numbers. The way I 15 read this, they're saying that it costs 300 -- almost 395,000 16 per truck for that fire department per year, and I don't know 17 how many trucks they have. Seems like quite a few, from what 18 I -- I mean, they've got three stations, getting ready to 19 build a fourth, you know. So, I mean, they have at least 10 20 trucks. So, I mean, that department costs $4 million a year? 21 MS. HARGIS: All -- the whole department? Yeah. 22 Yeah, when you're looking at -- the problem, even when I was 23 doing it last year, you have a crew of three. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MS. HARGIS: But that's seven days a week, 24 hours 7-13-07 bwk 48 1 a day. So that, you know, you equate one crew, which is one 2 person, as $100,000. When I was dealing with my volunteer 3 fire departments, it's pretty much what it is. You give one 4 crew, one person -- not a crew, but just one man, that serves 5 the fire department seven days a week, 24 hours a day, that 6 equates to about 100,000. In a volunteer department, you 7 wouldn't pay as much. But the entry-level firefighter makes 8 about 40-something thousand. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I guess -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sorry? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if that -- 12 MS. HARGIS: Sir? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: How much? 14 MS. HARGIS: 40. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if that number is -- but if 17 you're looking at it on a per-truck basis, the level of 18 service in the city, if you need five trucks, they send five 19 trucks. We get a maximum of one. So, I mean, I think that 20 you can't look at it the way they're putting it in their 21 letter, because the level of service is nowhere near the same. 22 You know, he's putting in his letter that that truck costs -- 23 that we should -- our proportionate part should be 355 -- I 24 can't read the numbers -- 395,000. But the level of service 25 is nowhere near what they want for the -- I mean, for -- or 7-13-07 bwk 49 1 they're giving to the residents of the city of Kerrville. So 2 I think I don't -- I mean, their logic doesn't make sense to 3 me, because they're saying it costs $395,000 for a truck, if 4 you look at it pro rata. However, you're not going -- you're 5 going to get 20 percent of the service in the county and we're 6 going to charge you that same pro rata amount. That doesn't 7 make sense to me. And that's what -- you know, I've never -- 8 I don't know how to get that across to the City Manager or -- 9 and City Council, for that matter. Because it's, you know -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Start having those breakfast meetings 11 twice a week instead of once. 12 MS. HARGIS: Well, when we were looking at it, we 13 were looking -- your contract calls for one truck. That's 14 what the contract calls for, so -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But one truck's usually not 16 sufficient, in reality. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, in reality, if there's a fire, 18 they're going to send more than one truck. They send one 19 truck -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't -- 21 MS. HARGIS: They send one truck and then they send 22 your volunteer fire departments. Now, if your volunteer fire 23 department's unavailable, then they'll probably send -- it 24 depends on how they have it, and I don't know this, but this 25 is from my volunteer experience; they call them box cars. And 7-13-07 bwk 50 1 so the first box car is probably that one engine. The second 2 one may be one of your volunteer fire departments; I don't 3 know. And then have you a third one, and it may be the third 4 car that goes out if your stations don't respond, if it's a 5 big fire. I don't know that, but you have to have a certain 6 amount of crew on a fire truck for them to even get out. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I understand that part of 8 it. But, I mean, they -- my recollection is they've been 9 pretty adamant that we get one truck. 10 MS. HARGIS: When it comes out? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm thinking of the house up 12 north of town that burned down several years ago. They sent 13 one truck, and that was not sufficient to fight that fire. 14 MS. HARGIS: And they didn't send another one? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. They said the volunteer 16 fire departments came out of Center Point, whereas if 17 Kerrville would have dispatched two, they probably could have 18 saved the house. 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, if I might put myself on the line 20 here, if that's the truth, then that's what you should bring 21 up, that you wouldn't mind paying more money if you had a 22 second truck that was going to go out if the fire was that 23 way. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Anyway, that's a -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the thing is, it's 7-13-07 bwk 51 1 really -- you know, and most all the calls -- the majority of 2 the calls are inside the city. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're only getting -- they're 5 only getting periodic calls from out in the county. Whenever 6 that happens, the volunteers are toned out same time they are. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to remember, though, 8 he bases all his stuff on per capita, not number of runs. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's all per capita, which I 12 personally disagree with. But we fought that battle. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And -- but on the per 14 capita side, I think the other part of that is -- that we went 15 round and round last year on was that the -- he says yes, but 16 the county -- the city's backing up the county. And I said, 17 yeah, and the county's backing up the city, too. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the volunteers -- 20 they've come in and helped right around Kerrville as well. 21 Anyway... 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some of our volunteer fire 23 departments, especially Ingram, you know, has great 24 capability. You know, it's not as good as what all the 25 equipment Kerrville has, but they have some pretty fine 7-13-07 bwk 52 1 equipment. They fight lots of fires, and the training -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they really do. 3 They're almost equal, actually. I mean, they can pull up to a 4 hydrant and pump just as much water and -- started to say 5 money -- as much water as anybody around. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a real problem with 8 what they're asking for. I just don't like the -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree that I like the 10 idea of gently increasing it, but I -- you know, this amount 11 of time thing, I'm with the Judge; we can't commit one 12 budget -- more than one budget. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon receipt of this letter, 15 other than to note that the -- that the proposed County share 16 is not as we thought, being the same as last year, but a 17 3 percent increase, other than noting that, do we want to get 18 into that any further? I guess not. So, we go to -- looks 19 like we've got health as the next item; is that correct? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, there's one other 21 item here, but I don't see a sheet in our packet. That's EMS. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's health and emergency 23 services. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is that? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 10-630, and that is -- should 7-13-07 bwk 53 1 be under -- well, fiddle-faddle, I don't have the page number 2 here -- on Page 67, 68, probably 69. Do you find anything 3 there on 69? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably in Section 22. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Section 22? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it is in Section 22. The only 7 figure that had -- that had been presented to me was the First 8 Responder, which is -- is a County obligation for their 9 expenses. And Commissioner Baldwin got those, as did I, and 10 they're pretty level. Now, the -- the EMS contract is plugged 11 in there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: EMS. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're proposing we go up 14 10,620? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To 220, but we have 244 as what 16 we had this year, so actually it's a decline. 17 MS. HARGIS: Supposed to be a decrease. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a decrease. I think 19 they're -- 20 MS. HARGIS: They did what you recommended; they 21 went up on the fees. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's 220, what they 25 requested, but I think their second number on there was wrong. 7-13-07 bwk 54 1 It's not 27,000 -- current year's was 244, not 210, as they 2 said. Up by 16,000. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have anything in particular 5 to offer there? It's obviously going the right direction. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only thing we need to, I 7 guess, note or put in here, and I don't know if it comes 8 directly off of that, assuming we can finally get our deal 9 worked out with Kendall County on Falling Water and The 10 Reserve, there is a -- a dollar amount that goes with that. I 11 think we would -- I mean, to me, it makes sense to reduce this 12 by that amount. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Offset it, yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because they're reducing their 15 coverage area, and that work is being done by Kendall County. 16 And we're talking about -- it's about $2,000, looks like. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, not much. $2,000 to 19 $3,000, I think. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's pretty reasonable. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Maybe we can hire them 22 for the whole county. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this reduced number 24 reflect the changes we made way out in west Kerr up on the 25 plateau? 7-13-07 bwk 55 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason for the change? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the reason for it is they've 4 changed their fee structure, doing what the County asked them 5 to do. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we ever get credit for 7 taking that amount out of the service area? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think we did. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a long way out there, 11 and it's a big area. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's covered by Kimble County 14 now, right? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, that's my point. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's a -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There is two areas now that 19 have been taken away, basically, from their responsibility, 20 and you'd think we'd get some kind of a decrease for that, but 21 maybe not. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't hold your breath. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's interesting to see that -- 24 that, in fact, even with increased costs, that the net loss 25 has decreased by virtue of this change in fee structure, I 7-13-07 bwk 56 1 think, bringing it more in line with what other departments 2 and even private insurance, they're -- if you give them a 3 bargain, they'll sure take advantage of it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We need -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I think the way you address 7 it is, on the -- on Page 2 of their letter, population of city 8 of Kerrville is 22,391 and the county is 24,863. I think you 9 just manually reduce -- for my area that we're talking about, 10 that number is going to be a fixed number that we're reducing 11 it out of that. That's the number that's being served by 12 Kendall County, and take how many people up in that area -- 13 just reduce that number by the number of people that we're 14 taking out of the contract. And then, proportionately, 15 it'll -- the mathematics will come through, and come up with 16 whatever -- a slightly reduced total. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why couldn't we do the same 18 thing retroactively for what we carved out up on the plateau? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, let's not go retroactive. 20 We didn't think of it last year. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a question. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that's how you 23 modify this agreement, is you -- that kind of sets a -- you're 24 doing it based on the number of people in the served area, 25 which is the -- 7-13-07 bwk 57 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By reference, retroactive is 2 only to the formula, not to the dollar amount -- current 3 dollar amount. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just didn't want to go ask for 5 a refund. You'd probably make me ask that, too. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You got on the black hat. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have to buy the breakfast 8 tacos the rest of your life. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Breakfast is an important meal. You 10 should try that frequently. Okay, anything more on that? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are you going to talk 12 about Animal Control? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep, that's where we're going next. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And if you can -- if you can explain 16 to me what that means in that letter, I would be most 17 appreciative. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm working on it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was hoping somebody could. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm working on it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are we going to, 22 Judge? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It should be in that same one, 24 because it's on -- it's the beginning of Tab 22, I guess. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Up to this time, they say 7-13-07 bwk 58 1 that the City of Kerrville is paying 60 percent, and the 2 County's paying 40 percent. And I think they want to change 3 those numbers to us pay 48 and them pay 45. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that doesn't make 100. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 46.6, 48.9. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Do the current numbers, 7 Bruce -- the City generates 28 percent? I thought they had a 8 higher percentage than that. That's why we changed it, is 9 because they had a higher -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll have to get Janie to run 11 those numbers for us, 'cause that doesn't sound right to me. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems low. We changed it based 13 on the percentages. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're taking out the 15 fact that we don't pick up dead animals, so -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But they told us they wanted 17 us to do that again in this coming -- this upcoming year. 18 They wanted to give us a pickup. That's the point I remember 19 at the joint meeting we had. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Did we ever get the 21 pickup? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. And I also asked them 23 could we have a key to their gas pump where we could fill it 24 up once a week for picking up dead animals, and they said no. 25 But if we are going to pick up the dead animals, they did say 7-13-07 bwk 59 1 they would give us -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I remember that. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- give us a pickup. Whether 4 it runs or not, I don't know, but they said they can give us 5 one. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't have a problem 7 with their -- Animal Control doesn't pick up animals for the 8 city -- or the county either, so I don't -- that's not an 9 issue. I think you do it on a pro rata basis, based on the 10 workload of the previous year. Whatever that comes out to, I 11 think that's how you do it. That's a fair way to do it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. We're not picking up -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't do it in the county. I 14 mean, they can't say it's a reduction of service, because 15 they're -- I mean, you can't use that argument, anyway, 16 anywhere here in the cost structure, because they don't pick 17 up animals. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We do pick up some dead 19 animals, depending on where they're dead. If they're in front 20 of somebody's house -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the city or the county? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In the county. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do it, Road and Bridge. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Road and Bridge does most of 25 it, but the county Animal Control does do some of it, because 7-13-07 bwk 60 1 I've been around when that was happening. 2 MS. HYDE: And they've done some in the city, too. 3 Like, if someone's hit a deer in the city and Road and Bridge 4 can't get to it or no one's going by, they'll go by and pick 5 it up. It's not like they make it a call, but if they're 6 going by, they've picked them up and brought them back to the 7 shelter. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I think it's done on 9 a pro rata basis. Whatever that number is, that's what it is. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll have Janie run the 11 numbers on that before we get -- before we go into the joint 12 meeting. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going to have a short 14 meeting; we're going to get along so well. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you'll notice also that they're 16 asking that all the administrative costs be carved out. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Before those allocations are made. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would we do that? We're 20 taking -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They claim they don't charge us for 22 EMS, fire, or library administrative costs, which doesn't make 23 sense, because there are administrative costs for operating a 24 library, for the librarian and the library -- librarians. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what they're talking 7-13-07 bwk 61 1 about, "administrative" is payroll and that type of 2 administrative. 3 MS. HARGIS: And they don't charge you for that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When they say "administrative," 5 they're not talking about Janie's supervision. They're 6 talking about a percentage of Eva's and -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not rolling any part of the -- 8 the general administrative -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In there. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- cost into what we're charging here 11 either. We're not charging -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- any part of H.R. We're not 14 charging any part of Treasurer, of auditing, of legal. We're 15 not rolling any of the general administrative costs. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, this sentence here, "I 18 do not believe those costs should be included here." They're 19 not. I mean -- I mean, I think it's done on a pro rata basis. 20 To me, that's the end of that discussion. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like a good idea. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May not be what he wants, what 24 he said in his letter, but I think that's what we should do. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand that. But I don't 7-13-07 bwk 62 1 know where he comes up with his 91,000. Presumably, he carves 2 out the -- some salary costs out of the EMS budget -- I mean 3 the Animal Control budget before he then makes his allocation. 4 'Cause he said if we take those out, their contribution would 5 be 91,5 rather than 147,000. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the estimated for the 7 year next year? Revenue's 200,000. What's 45.6 percent of 8 200,000? 9 MS. HYDE: 200,000 -- how much? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 200,000. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 200,631. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 90-something. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Times forty -- 14 MS. HYDE: What's the percentage? 15 MS. HARGIS: 48.5 percent? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 45.6. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 91,5, roughly. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's where they came up 19 with it. 20 MS. HYDE: 91,2. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's just trying to stir things 22 up by putting that sentence in there. They didn't -- they're 23 just saying they don't want to pay any costs, and they're not. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you saying you're 25 comfortable with the total allocation split, 48.9 versus 45.6? 7-13-07 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm comfortable with that 2 methodology. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you do with the 4 other 5.5 percent? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ingram. 6 MS. HARGIS: Not 100 percent. City of Ingram? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ingram and out-of-county. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we want to -- that's 9 up -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram has their own animal 11 control, but they have a contract with us to house their 12 animals. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they pay? 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Far as I know, they do. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the other part. Ingram 17 pays their pro rata share too, which is fair. I mean, the 18 City shouldn't subsidize city of Ingram. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That out-of-county, then, 20 would get rolled into Kerr County, making ours 51 or 52.3 -- 21 52.2. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't really have a real 23 problem with that, either. I mean, I think -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's a decision -- a 7-13-07 bwk 64 1 management decision on our part. If we're taking 2 out-of-county, I think the City should pay their pro rata 3 share of the expenses. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the deficit. Now, I would 6 have a little bit of a question. It shows revenues, 34,000. 7 If those revenues -- I don't know how we track that, but if 8 those revenues are coming out of county funds, as a donation 9 from a county individual, I don't know why they should be -- 10 get the benefit for that. 11 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or if the donations are coming 13 in from -- I mean, they should pay the pro rata of the 14 expenses. Now, I don't know if we -- if it's coming out -- if 15 we have money coming from the city, money coming from the 16 county, then out-of-county. It's not worth that -- 17 MS. HARGIS: There's some federal money that comes 18 in of about $7,800. I looked at this the other day. And then 19 you have Ingram, which is only $3,000 a year. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MS. HARGIS: And then the fees that people pay when 22 they come to get the dogs. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine through the -- I 24 don't mind the fees. The Ingram part I'm not sure should come 25 out of that. 7-13-07 bwk 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: It shouldn't. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That shouldn't come out. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's their cost portion. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's coming -- I mean, 5 that's -- they're not -- they're equal parties to the 6 agreement. They're paying their pro rata cost. 7 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. It's a very nominal amount; it's 8 $250 a month. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, we're basically 10 okay, as long as the numbers are right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Breakfast up to three times a week? 12 Okay, have we kicked all that around well enough? Let's talk 13 about employee health benefits and see if we can wrap that up. 14 Ms. Hyde has some information on that. Our consultant has 15 already furnished a proposed budget figure per-employee, and 16 the proposal that is being submitted by our consultant will 17 generally have all the available insurance benefits which 18 comprise a portion of -- of the offers to employee, including 19 supplemental, to be offered through Kerr County, which would 20 get us out of the business of -- of doing administrative work 21 for a bunch of other supplemental carriers or officers or 22 agents of officers and whatnot. Everything would come through 23 us, and we'd have a much better handle on it. And, you know, 24 whatever the employee wanted to select from, they'd have 25 available. We'd handle payroll deduction and we'd handle the 7-13-07 bwk 66 1 remittance, and -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And beyond that, if they want to 3 go to some other company and go get additional insurance, they 4 can do what they want. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: They're able to do that, but we're 6 not -- we are not -- we're not put in the position where we're 7 handling administrative functions for outside carriers or 8 agents. 9 MS. HYDE: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Plain and simple. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, that's a good -- 12 MS. HYDE: Mindy and I have talked about it a lot. 13 Between -- between both our offices, we do -- although when 14 the supplementals come in, they say, "There's no problem; you 15 don't administer it, you do not have to deal with it," we do. 16 You know, if they have -- if an employee has a problem with 17 their dental or one of the -- you know, cancer or whatever, 18 they come to us, and then -- then they go to Mindy, and it's 19 just been -- it's been very much a struggle. And add to that 20 when we get the bills, of course, the bills come to us. And 21 it's also tough on supplementals because these people have 22 signed up for a year. Once you sign, you've signed, and I 23 think you had a couple that came to you where the employees 24 didn't understand that they have to cancel prior to 12-31 of 25 each year or it's an evergreen. So, some of our people got -- 7-13-07 bwk 67 1 they have two types of the same insurance because they weren't 2 allowed to come out of the insurance policies. So, a lot of 3 this -- you know, a lot of this has caused a lot of confusion 4 for our folks. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- where are we with 6 Mutual of Omaha and -- I guess we're changing the base 7 company, or do we know? Or what's going on with all that? 8 MS. HYDE: We're putting together an RFP, and we'll 9 send out an RFP again. Mutual of Omaha has sold. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MS. HYDE: So, when we talked with our guy, he -- he 12 feels very confident that the cost is going to be an increase 13 from last year, but it's not going to be as much as if we went 14 to the open market to do a complete RFP. If we went on the 15 open market right now, you're looking at 18 to 22 percent as 16 an increase. If we continue to use the man that -- Gary 17 Looney, and go through his company and work with that company 18 like we've been doing, he's saying 8 to 10 percent. It's a 19 huge difference. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The RFP would be for 21 administrative services, similar to what -- 22 MS. HYDE: We can send out RFP's. He's going to do 23 the same RFP process that he did before. But based on the 24 fact that they have a lot of coverage throughout the state of 25 Texas, he believes that we can get it between 8 and 7-13-07 bwk 68 1 10 percent, versus 22. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any plan modifications 3 that either you or he recommend to -- kind of along the lines 4 of the health -- what do we -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Reimbursements? H.R.A. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The H.R.A. accounts and things 7 of that nature that are kind of -- that may help hold costs 8 down, but not really hurt services? 9 MS. HYDE: As soon as we can get some of the 10 original numbers coming in, then we can look. Right now, our 11 H.R.A. is -- is an extremely good plan. I mean, it is. 12 Unfortunately, the cost of insurance continues to escalate. 13 Every one of y'all know that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 MS. HYDE: Unfortunately, our employees don't 16 understand. They don't even understand that it's part of 17 their compensation for the most part. So, when we looked at 18 this, what we're looking at is, what is the cost going to be 19 and what can we absorb as a county? And we know right now 20 that -- we feel that we should continue with the medical like 21 it is for sure, and the plans for sure, but we need to know 22 what the cost structures are. If it goes up right now, we're 23 paying "X" amount for an employee, and we also pay the same 24 for their children, whether it's one child in the family or 25 whether it's six children in the family. So, some of these 7-13-07 bwk 69 1 things, you know, yes, we are looking at to see how much cost 2 we can absorb. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, the 4 intent that I had when we went with the H.R.A. accounts and 5 things of that nature is to make the employees get more 6 involved and more -- understand more about their insurance. 7 Doesn't sound like we've been successful from that standpoint, 8 even though we still offer a good plan. 9 MS. HYDE: I think they've understood -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is more involved. It is 11 more involved. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Believe me. 14 MS. HYDE: It's much more involved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A nightmare sometimes. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you haven't been using it 17 or had the occasion to use it, you wouldn't know that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But let me ask -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The theory behind the H.R.A. is to 20 give the flexibility to the employee. They can either elect 21 to spend that money now or hold onto it for a rainy day fund, 22 carry it over. So, it -- it gets them -- it gets them into 23 the system as participating now. Truly invested in the 24 system? No, because the County's paying all the costs. 25 They're probably not invested to the degree they need to be to 7-13-07 bwk 70 1 really be -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- highly interested. But -- 4 MS. HYDE: But most of them this year could judge -- 5 when they come to us and discuss these with us, we've been 6 able to get a lot more knowledge out there to the employees 7 that, you know, the H.R.A. is not Mutual of Omaha, or it's not 8 from Process Works. You know, this is the County paying this. 9 And I was really surprised, because most people did not and 10 still -- probably 50 percent still don't understand that. So, 11 yeah, I am surprised. But as far as people being more 12 involved -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is a good thing, though. 14 There's no way that you can say it's not a good thing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's wonderful. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You just got to find doctors 18 that receive credit cards. Let me ask kind of the same 19 question, but in a different way. Under the medical -- under 20 medical, it says a $1,000 deductible, question mark. That 21 means that there's a question to that. If so, continue the 22 $600 H.R.A. What about two -- I thought it was $2,000 23 deductible to start with, but what if we were at $2,000? What 24 would you do with the $600 H.R.A. then? 25 MS. HYDE: What do you mean? 7-13-07 bwk 71 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say you went to $2,000 2 deductible. Increase the H.R.A. to 1,200? 3 MS. HYDE: The difference between $1,000 and $2,000 4 on the reduction in rates is not going to be that much any 5 more. Insurance companies have caught on to what people are 6 doing, so the rates are not going to be any better, per se. 7 It's going to be very nominal in how much it's going to be 8 better, so what we're looking for is buying power. You know, 9 it's finding buying power to reduce your rates. Does that 10 answer it? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- let's say we went from 14 $1,000 -- are we at $1,000 deductible? 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let's say that we go 17 to $2,000 deductible. 18 MS. HYDE: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right? Would the H.R.A. 20 increase to $1,200? Or would you -- 21 MS. HYDE: My recommendation would be no. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry? 23 MS. HYDE: My recommendation would be no. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, it looks like a 25 possible recommendation here, is what I'm -- 7-13-07 bwk 72 1 MS. HYDE: No, these were notes when we were 2 talking, if we could get the deductible down based on cost. 3 Because it used to be if you had a $500 deductible, your cost 4 is -- your base cost is going to be much higher. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 MS. HYDE: 'Cause your deductible is so low, and 7 $1,000 -- you know, it was incremental. You know, between 8 $1,000 and $2,000, the increment is 1 to 2 percent. It's 9 nominal when you look at the big -- the big picture. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you wouldn't recommend a 11 change in the H.R.A. number at all? 12 MS. HYDE: Hmm-mm. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Regardless of where the -- 14 MS. HYDE: No, because the cost is still going to be 15 the same unless we want to pay more towards the insurance. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I guarantee you, if you increase that 17 deductible from $1,000 to $2,000, the employees would notice 18 it very, very quickly. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I know. I know. I would 20 be opposed to that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because that's painful. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're really saying, 24 Eva, is that there is no -- no more, there isn't any basic 25 savings for up-front dollars? 7-13-07 bwk 73 1 MS. HYDE: No, sir. That's why the next line was 2 $500. We were looking at the difference between $500 and 3 $1,000. And what I had done is, I had gone out and I had 4 gotten the rates, because Aetna's still in the state of Texas 5 as well, and then Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and I was comparison 6 shopping on insurance that way. So, when I looked at the 7 rates, I was looking at the difference between $500 and $1,000 8 to help prove that we want to keep it at 1,000 bucks. It's 9 pretty much -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, is there -- I mean, so are 11 we -- does it make -- is it the same -- going to cost the same 12 if we go to a $500 deductible and eliminate the H.R.A.? 13 MS. HYDE: About 10 percent difference. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 percent, okay. So, there's 15 still a difference between $500 and $1,000, but there's not 16 once you get over $1,000? 17 MS. HYDE: Right, because so many people have taken 18 advantage of the H.R.A.'s. And then the new one, of course, 19 that people hear about are the H.S.A.'s, which hopefully we 20 can get into maybe next year. Not this year, but the next 21 budget year. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the H.S.A. goes with the 23 employee? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct. 25 MS. HYDE: Right. 7-13-07 bwk 74 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As opposed to being County-owned 2 money. 3 MS. HYDE: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva, on employee basic life 5 insurance -- 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- it is currently 20K? Or 8 is it one times the employee's salary? 9 MS. HYDE: From T.A.C., it's 20K, and from Mutual of 10 Omaha, it's 20K right now. If you go down through this, what 11 we've done is made major medical -- our language right now 12 includes dependent coverage. That dependent coverage goes up 13 to 25 regardless, and we've had some cost to that. So, my 14 suggestion to Gary was that it goes to 18, if the child lives 15 at home and goes to college full-time, you know, similar to 16 what other insurances have paid. Because, currently, right 17 now it goes to 25, so that dependent may or may not live at 18 home, and we cover it until they're 25. Which includes -- you 19 know, if they have children and -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why 25? I thought the age was 21 23. 22 MS. HYDE: No, it's 25. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we need to bring that in line 24 with -- and I think -- I think Mr. -- 25 MS. HYDE: Gary has already got it. This is Gary's 7-13-07 bwk 75 1 tick list. These are some of things that we're definitely 2 going to modify. We just -- I mean, we don't want to hurt 3 anyone; we just want to make sure they're dependents, either 4 living at home or going to school full-time. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's an interesting 6 question. Is there a way to not cover dependents' 7 pregnancies? Because right now, there's not. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a way? 9 MS. HYDE: No, sir. We've answered that question. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's just a rhetorical 11 question. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ouch. What is our current 13 per-employee figure to budget for -- for health benefits that 14 he's giving us? How much per year, per employee? 15 MS. HYDE: Current? 500 -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, projected for the coming 17 year, for '07-'08. 18 MS. HYDE: $625. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 20 MS. HYDE: $625 a month per employee. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 625? 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Projected? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. That's at 10 percent. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 7,500 bucks a year. 7-13-07 bwk 76 1 MS. HYDE: He can be here on the 25th as well to go 2 over any other questions that y'all might have. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again, Judge? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: $7,500 a year. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $625 per month, per employee. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a pretty nice gift. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's a chunk of money. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva's comment that most 9 employees don't really recognize this as -- as truly a part of 10 their salary and benefit package, the value of it, is 11 interesting, but that's not unusual. 12 MS. HYDE: No, sir. Which is why, whenever they 13 come in to talk to us about this, we talk to them about total 14 compensation. We've had a lot of employees that have -- that 15 have been upset; they don't feel like they're being paid 16 enough money. So, unfortunately, when they come in and talk 17 to me or Jackie, we don't necessarily make them feel better, 18 because what we explain to them is if you take into 19 consideration your total compensation -- so even if you're 20 making $10.30 an hour, which is our entry level, so your 21 annual salary is 21,000, you need to add another 7,500 for 22 your insurance. You need to add another 8 percent of that -- 23 I mean, we have a little form; we can figure it out, and we 24 show them when the line is done, instead of you making $22,000 25 a year, really and truly, when you add your compensation to 7-13-07 bwk 77 1 it, you add another $12,000 to your salary. Now, it doesn't 2 mean anything, 'cause it's not pennies in our pockets, and 3 that means a lot to folks. But we just -- we're just really 4 trying to make sure that people understand how expensive life 5 insurance, how expensive our medical insurance is, and what we 6 currently have. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva, what will the 8 employees' dependent cost per-month be? 9 MS. HYDE: We're unsure of that at this point, 10 because what we are looking at is two different scenarios. 11 One is if you have family coverage, it doesn't matter if you 12 have one child or multiple children, or if it's a two-child 13 limit and then if it's over two children, it would cost a 14 little bit more. I mean, we're looking -- we're trying to 15 look at what's the best bang for the bucks and how we can keep 16 it as inexpensive as possible. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we don't have that 18 number yet? 19 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, I kind of hate to put you 21 on the spot here, but I think you've probably had the 22 opportunity to look at various and sundry insurance plans 23 offered by governmental entities over the years, and maybe 24 some more recently. Have you had an opportunity to become 25 basically familiar with what our plan is as a result of 7-13-07 bwk 78 1 becoming an employee? 2 MS. HARGIS: Not yet. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. HARGIS: Not yet. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: This is probably a little out of 7 school, but, you know, the City changed last year, and it was 8 pretty detrimental to the employees, and we found that when 9 you do mess with their health insurance, they would be willing 10 to give up the money to have the health insurance, because 11 they don't realize. This -- I'm surprised we haven't had all 12 the City employees over here, because the insurance plan that 13 they currently have is not very good. But they're changing 14 that this year. They're changing that. And it was 15 unfortunate; we just didn't get the proper advice last year 16 from our insurance representative. But we have seen people 17 who would rather give the City money to get them a better 18 plan, because that's really one of the most important things 19 to most people today, is their health care coverage. And, you 20 know, maybe if you showed them a comparison to other places, 21 what they get, it might be a good idea. What we did is we 22 actually had some workshops with the employees last year to 23 show them what they were getting. And you could do a 24 comparison of other counties, and I think that might make them 25 a little happier, and if they want to talk to me about it, I 7-13-07 bwk 79 1 certainly can help them with it. But the way we had it was an 2 H.R.A. that was $2,000 per family and $1,000 for the employee. 3 Now, if you're very healthy, that worked out real well; there 4 wasn't a P.P.O. or anything. The problem is, a lot of people 5 who had prescription drugs, they ran out of the H.R.A. the 6 first month. They had no insurance. And then the next 7 deductible level was 2,000 for an individual and six for a 8 family, so most of the families were still waiting to get to 9 the six, so they had no insurance. They're paying 10 out-of-pocket, 'cause the 80 percent didn't kick in till you 11 got through the six. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Did that cause a significant morale 13 issue? 14 MS. HARGIS: Significant morale issue. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, as I understand from the 16 county meetings I've been at, we're one of the few counties 17 that the employees don't pay anything. Majority of counties, 18 they pay -- and it may be a very token amount, maybe $20 a 19 month, but it's -- we're one of the few that -- that pays 100 20 percent. 21 MS. HARGIS: City employees don't pay individually 22 for themselves; they pay for their dependents. And, coming 23 from the Houston area, I'll tell you -- and as an ex-employer 24 in Houston, the costs were getting so high that most employers 25 were making -- either getting a very high deductible plan, 7-13-07 bwk 80 1 which I'm talking $5,000 deductible, or making the employees 2 pay, because it was just cost prohibitive. My -- because I 3 had such a small group, I was paying $1,800 per husband and 4 spouse for my employees, so it was very expensive. And so I 5 had -- I just had to decide how much I could afford as an 6 owner, and they had to kick in the rest. And that's what's 7 happening pretty much in the large metropolitan areas, is the 8 employers are having to get very creative just to offer health 9 care coverage. So, your employees don't realize the salary 10 may not be great, but their -- their health care benefits are 11 phenomenal. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the entire 13 compensation package is a good package. 14 MS. HARGIS: It is. It is a good package. You 15 might just need to have some workshops with them and -- and 16 tell them. I'll be glad to tell them. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, Mr. Looney's going to -- he's 19 still getting some -- crunching numbers on some of the 20 components of this, and he's going to come to us with some 21 definitive recommendations as we get closer to putting that 22 out? 23 MS. HYDE: 'Cause with me looking at the options 24 we're looking at allowing the employees to get right now, 25 there is no short-term disability for an employee, or a 7-13-07 bwk 81 1 long-term disability, so it's caused a lot of discussions when 2 we've had employees that have had to be out for cancer, or 3 they've had to have surgery and be out for two or three 4 months. So, I talked to Gary about -- we need S.T.D. and 5 L.T.D. Those are a pretty nominal cost, if an employee wants 6 it, and that way they can be covered for up to six months on 7 short-term, and then your long-term would kick in at 8 70 percent of your base after six months. Again, that's a 9 nominal -- those are nominal costs; we're talking anywhere 10 from $7 to $10. You know, but a lot of folks have got -- 11 currently, in their supplements, they have short-term, 12 long-term, and a cancer policy, and they were sold that. 13 Well, you don't need that. Your short-term and long-term 14 covers cancer; it's part of catastrophic illness, and it 15 covers that. 16 So, I'm not saying that we need to be, you know, big 17 government telling them what to do, but we do need to make 18 sure that they -- that we try to help them understand what 19 they're buying or what they're not buying. And that's why, 20 when we put this plan together, we wanted to make sure that 21 they understood, yeah, you can buy this, but you don't need 22 to. You know, they can buy a catastrophic cancer and it's 23 just for that, but they would not have short-term and 24 long-term disability. There is a difference. But if they 25 have long-term and short-term disability, it does include 7-13-07 bwk 82 1 cancer, so we wanted to give them some options so that they 2 could see what they could get. And then, also, he's looking 3 at -- it's not -- I have it on here as a 401. We can't do a 4 401 as a government, but it's a 453, I believe, a 453 plan, to 5 allow employees that would like to to start something similar 6 to a 401. No matching from the County at this time, because 7 we match in the retirement fund. But I think that if folks 8 could see something like a 453, you know, especially if they 9 start out at a young age with the County and they work their 10 way through retirement, it's a pretty darn good nest egg, and 11 it's good on taxes. It's pre-taxed. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only thing I want to add is 13 that Mr. Looney is notoriously last-minute coming in here. 14 Would you encourage him along to get in as early as possible 15 so we can look? 16 MS. HYDE: He was going to be here Wednesday, 17 Commissioner Baldwin, but it changed, and he was already going 18 somewhere today. So, he was going to be here Wednesday. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a poor excuse, but 20 okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We changed the meeting date on him at 22 the last minute. We can't have those discussions any more, 23 right? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to have to post the 7-13-07 bwk 83 1 meetings timely, right? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to make Ms. Hyde 3 aware that next week's meeting has changed to Friday as well? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, that it's going to Friday 5 instead of Wednesday next week. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And everybody else that needs 7 to know. 8 MS. HYDE: Write that on the list. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll -- I'll get Jody to publish a 10 new one. 11 MS. HYDE: Did you share this with them? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure what you got. Does that 13 relate to health insurance? That relate to health insurance? 14 MS. HYDE: Sort of. Just that top page, our credits 15 that we can get back. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: This is -- this is the casualty and 17 liability -- 18 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- insurance. That's not under this 20 particular -- that's -- that's going to come under our 21 nondepartmental, which will be next Friday. 22 MS. HYDE: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: But, yeah, that's good news for a 24 change. 25 MS. HYDE: Okay. 7-13-07 bwk 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we take a break for 2 about 15 minutes, and then we can come back. 3 (Recess taken from 10:46 a.m. to 11:05 a.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go ahead and come back 6 to order. Next item we've got on our schedule is 7 reorganization issues. I realize this was taken from a matrix 8 that had been previously -- and do we have any reorganization 9 issues to talk about at this time? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think so, not that I 11 have. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would -- what would be a 13 reorganization? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think this matrix was brought 15 forward from last year, and I think at that point, there were 16 some issues that we were dealing with with Maintenance, for 17 example, and some other things. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Human Resources. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pre- Ms. Hyde. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say that there may be 24 a -- might be a change coming on the booking person at the Ag 25 Barn. I don't know if you want to classify that as a 7-13-07 bwk 85 1 reorganization. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that's a 3 reorganization. That's just more a change in -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Job description. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Change in duties. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I really think -- I mean, I 8 don't see -- I don't have anything that I can see. I think 9 everything is sorted out pretty well since the last couple 10 years. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I see that things are working 13 fairly well the way they are. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In some areas. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only change I'd like is we 17 start eating at 11:00 instead of 12:00. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a major reorganization. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty major. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be just for you 21 or for everybody? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, for everybody. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Human Resources and Personnel 24 Policy. I don't know if that's one or two different items. I 25 think the personnel policy issue probably is one that's -- the 7-13-07 bwk 86 1 Human Resources, I think we've pretty well got restructured 2 last year going into this year. That's why Ms. Hyde is with 3 us today. Which brings us to the personnel policies. You've 4 been working on that? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A new Personnel Policies 6 handbook. 7 MS. HYDE: This is the first draft. Here's the 8 first draft. And here's -- just in case y'all didn't have 9 one -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Y'all notice, that means we 11 have a left-handed H.R. person; the staples are on the 12 opposite side. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. I'm going to have to go 14 through and restaple all of these, 'cause I can't work this 15 way. 16 MS. UECKER: Start writing with your left hand. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You let your right-handed 18 assistant do the stapling. 19 MS. HYDE: Well, let me explain something, though. 20 If you use -- 21 MS. MAGENHEIMER: I was trained in right-hand 22 stapling. 23 MS. HYDE: When you go to write notes and such, even 24 for a right-hander, there's more room for you to write your 25 notes. 7-13-07 bwk 87 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's order in your 2 madness. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you figure that? 4 MS. HYDE: 'Cause it makes sense to a left-hander. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one of those that works 6 for me, and they think differently. I will agree with that. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They are different. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not talking about your wife? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. She doesn't work for me, 11 believe me. I think it's the other way around. 12 MS. HYDE: This is just a start. We had eight 13 people that came to the committee meeting to discuss it, and 14 this is just what we've started with. We're by no means 15 finished. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But it will -- the goal 17 is to have this finished so it's in our budget, correct? 18 Personnel -- doesn't it go in our budget? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't we have to adopt this? 21 MS. HYDE: The goal is to have it by October 1, yes, 22 so that we can -- we can have it to you. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And there were a couple of us 24 sitting around this table that did attend this meeting, and 25 there were other participants, and it went on for quite a 7-13-07 bwk 88 1 while. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Other elected officials. 3 MS. HYDE: We had our District Clerk, Linda Uecker. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't there. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You couldn't have been. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wasn't invited to that 7 meeting. 8 MS. HYDE: What I'm trying to do is invite only two 9 at a time, 'cause you guys told me that I can't do more than 10 two at a time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 12 MS. HYDE: But the County Attorney will be there 13 every time to make sure that we haven't messed up the 14 Sunshine. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Next time you go in my place. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right, I'm happy to 17 come in at the end. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You gave us a copy of the 19 old one? Is that all this is? 20 MS. HYDE: Just a copy in case y'all don't have one. 21 That -- but that's the old one. 22 MS. UECKER: Did you include the amendment that was 23 never included into the old one? 24 MS. HYDE: No. There's an amendment that is about 25 25 pages long that I don't think anyone else, except for a 7-13-07 bwk 89 1 couple of folks, that should have been put into this -- the 2 one that you have. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The existing policy? 4 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 5 MS. UECKER: It was approved. 6 MS. HYDE: It was approved, and there's an order on 7 it, but -- and I didn't make y'all copies of it, 'cause, no 8 offense, I wasn't going to redo all of it and try to insert it 9 into where it needed to be. I've gone back and pulled as many 10 orders as I could where policies were changed, but they were 11 never distributed or broadcast. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Obviously, there's some review and 14 perusal that needs to be given to it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you -- as part of your 16 process, are you looking at -- or do we care what other 17 counties do? 18 MS. HYDE: Sure, absolutely. We've looked at -- 19 let's see, comal, Harris, Gillespie, Denton, Hood. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. I mean, don't 21 worry about Harris too much, but the rest of them sound like 22 they're good. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hood has always been a county 24 that we've compared ourselves with through the years. 25 Basically, the same size. 7-13-07 bwk 90 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hood County. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Granbury? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know where it is. 5 MS. UECKER: Granbury. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Granbury, isn't it? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. I thought maybe I could travel 8 up there just to see firsthand. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You like Granbury, huh? 10 Cute town. 11 MS. HYDE: Just kidding. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, obviously, that's going 14 to require some time and study on our part to -- 15 MS. HYDE: As we get the drafts, like this portion 16 of the draft, the very last couple of pages will tell you that 17 this has not been approved by the committee or anything for -- 18 to go on. But the rest of it, y'all, please look at if you 19 have any suggestions and let us know, because as we put this 20 together, each draft, you'll get a new one. So, the next 21 sections will be different than this. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So our first step will be 23 to restaple them; then we can read it and get it back to you. 24 (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, will 11:15 be 7-13-07 bwk 91 1 okay? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today? I've got one more 3 question. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to go back to the fire 6 contract with the City and just clarify something, and then a 7 question. And you -- you brought up the fact that -- I think 8 you were saying that counties -- the law does not allow a 9 county to commit one budget after another, or into future 10 budgets. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It -- except in cases of certificates 14 of obligation, bonded indebtedness, things of that nature. No 15 government can. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- that's my 17 question, then. Can the City do that? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, they're -- they're basically 19 under the same -- they can do long-term debt under the law 20 just like we can, which will commit beyond the current budget 21 year. But, no, we can't do that. That's why, for example, 22 these contracts -- these installment contracts where Leonard 23 buys equipment that is paid over a period of three years, or 24 we buy the Sheriff's automobiles, there are clauses in that 25 contract that our obligation to continue performance is 7-13-07 bwk 92 1 contingent upon the governmental body budgeting funds to 2 perform under that contract. But if we don't budget the 3 funds, we got no further obligation. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And I understand all 5 that, and I knew that. How could the City Manager possibly 6 ask us to commit in multiple years? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that he's asking us to 8 commit, but rather putting us on notice that they're not -- at 9 least their intention is that they're not through ratcheting 10 up that cost. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's more of a policy statement 12 from their perspective. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just to let us know the 14 rent's going to continue to go up. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's essentially how I see it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we're doing the same 18 thing in reverse with the library. We're going to let them 19 know the rent's going to continue to go down. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is 11:15 satisfactory? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think -- I think Buzzie's 24 still doesn't open for a couple more months, but -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple more months? 7-13-07 bwk 93 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They burned down. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can go to the one in Comfort. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could go to the one in 4 Comfort. This guy hauled me to Center Point the other day for 5 a hamburger. 6 MS. HYDE: It's a great hamburger. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a great hamburger. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Best hamburgers in Kerr 9 County. 10 MS. HYDE: Am I done? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: If I'm included in that vote, I go 12 down there generally at least once a week. They've got a nice 13 little Mexican food restaurant there, too. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very good. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Further into town. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's gotten better, I 17 understand. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, gentlemen. Is that it? We'll 19 be adjourned, then. 20 (Budget workshop adjourned at 11:17 a.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 23 24 25 7-13-07 bwk 94 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 17th day of 9 July, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-13-07 bwk