1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Friday, July 20, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 20, 2007 2 PAGE Review and discuss FY 2007-08 Budgets and fiscal, 3 capital expenditure and personnel matters related thereto, for various County Departments, including, 4 but not limited to the following departments: 5 Organizational Development 5 Step and Grade Schedules 30 6 Non-Departmental 35 Commissioners' Court 50 7 Information Technology 75 District Courts 103 8 District Attorneys 114 County Judge 125 9 County Court 126 10 --- Adjourned 130 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Friday, July 20, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 budget workshop that we've scheduled for this time and date, 9 Friday, July 20, '07, at 9 a.m. It's a bit past that time 10 now. The schedule which we have posted has a number of 11 different elements on it, the first one of which is the 12 organizational development. I'm not sure what that -- what 13 all that might entail, but I'll throw it open and let somebody 14 run with it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See who stands up? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, my first 18 question is -- I was thinking about it in the shower this 19 morning, and in between songs. (Laughter.) And don't we 20 normally talk about salaries and COLA's and those kinds of 21 things first? Or am I just all wet? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that comes under 23 organizational development. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bingo. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last year we said we were 7-20-07 bwk 4 1 going to do that first because of the tremendous impact it 2 had. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- in that vein, Commissioner, 5 when I have my discussions one-on-one with the elected 6 officials and department heads, my standard disclaimer to 7 those people is basically we work on the middle of the budget, 8 with the understanding that even that that we work on, if 9 they're for some reason not satisfied with what I end up with, 10 they're free to come talk to you about each and every thing 11 there. But with regard to the top of the budget, the 12 personnel issues, those matters are left for the full Court's 13 consideration, with the exception -- I'm willing to discuss 14 with them at least if they want to -- to do some 15 reorganization within their department that would involve 16 downsizing, and they want to talk about how they're going to 17 do some reassignments and -- and adjustments in compensation 18 because of downsizing, certainly, I'm willing to listen to 19 that. Any -- any compensation issues other than longevity 20 increases or educational increases that come automatically 21 under our existing policy, anything other than that is for the 22 full Court. Additional personnel is for the full Court. 23 Converting personnel from part-time to full-time, for example, 24 is for the full Court. Then on the bottom end of the budget, 25 capital items that they may want for their department, that I 7-20-07 bwk 5 1 see as a full Court issue, too. So, the -- the issue of -- of 2 compensation for employees, other than longevity or 3 educational increases, certainly is -- is a subject that we 4 need to take up. And -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which includes COLA's? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely, it would include COLA's. 7 It would include any salary increases; it would include any 8 modifications because of job descriptions and that sort of 9 thing, increases -- merit increases and so forth. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What were the songs you were 12 singing? You thought about this between songs. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry, I can't reveal 14 that. There's ladies in the room. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On organizational development, I 16 just kind of thought of something; I think we've done a poor 17 job of training in areas in the past. Anyway, we just need to 18 keep in the back of our mind new department heads that we've 19 kind of put in positions during the year or moved things 20 around, that we might want to look at some of the training 21 budgets. The one that comes to mind is Tim Bollier. You 22 know, we pulled him out of the ranks and made him a supervisor 23 running a department, and haven't given him a lot of tools 24 really as to how to do some of those things, and we may want 25 to look at, like, sending him to some seminars and things 7-20-07 bwk 6 1 that, you know, help with that area. 'Cause I think those 2 seminars do hem some of that -- you know. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there is such a thing. 4 You know, and on the other hand, the -- like, the 5 Environmental Health people that we've shifted around, they 6 have -- they have done theirs. I mean, they've gone out and 7 gone to school and got the certifications that are necessary 8 and all that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've gotten that, but they 10 haven't -- I'm a pretty firm believer that you need to teach 11 people how to lead a lot, and how to supervise. I don't think 12 that's just innate in everyone. And I think -- like, for 13 example, Tish is down there temporarily, or interim-wise 14 anyway, running that department, and she may be another 15 candidate that may, you know, be good to go and learn how you 16 do some supervision a little bit, some techniques and things. 17 That -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you're right, and 19 especially whenever it comes to supervising other personnel 20 and how to deal with them. You know, how to manage your 21 departments, you know, actually just the employee side of the 22 thing, giving people direction and other things like that. 23 Open Records Act. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just the law as to what you 25 can and can't tell people. 7-20-07 bwk 7 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you're a supervisor, 3 there's a lot of things the law prohibits you from being able 4 to tell people. Maybe some of that can be done in-house. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think some of it is -- I think 7 you get a different perspective by going to -- you know, I 8 don't think you have to go to a maintenance supervisor school; 9 I think you could go to any kind of supervisor school. A 10 supervisor is a supervisor kind of thing. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde might be able to 12 perfect some of that training for us as well. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think she can help. I mean, I 14 think she can find it. 15 MS. HYDE: We have in the budget -- in my budget 16 that I've presented, there's quite a bit for training, because 17 there are supervisor leadership schools, there are 18 transitional schools, and not all of them are very expensive. 19 Some of the stuff we can do in-house; we can give them things 20 to read and to practice. But I think that also getting out 21 for one day in a classroom setting, doing some role-playing, 22 being able to understand, especially since most of our folks 23 come from the hourly rank and then are put into a supervisory 24 role, that's hard too. You know, transferring from being a 25 worker bee to a supervisor, in the same work group. 'Cause, 7-20-07 bwk 8 1 you know, you were buddies, you were friends. You ate lunch 2 together. Well, now you kind of cross a different line. And 3 so we've got one, if we have the money in the budget, for 4 September 11th for all of the folks that were newly promoted 5 that have been requested to go. Whether they go or not, that 6 will be up to them. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, that may be. 8 Sounds like Ms. Hyde's thought about this, which she's paid to 9 do, and put it in her budget. That way, it doesn't get used 10 for different types of training; it gets used for the kind of 11 training that we're talking about. And then she can -- you 12 know, and that makes sense. That way also, if we make other 13 shifts during the year, it's not like you have to all of a 14 sudden cut out their certification-type training and 15 substitute this. It's more likely -- I think it will be done 16 if it's in her budget. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's where it 18 belongs. And I think the second component to that is, the 19 Court makes a policy ordering that new supervisors are 20 required to take this type of training within a certain time 21 frame after being elevated to that position, or put in an 22 interim position. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm hearing is that, from a 24 career development standpoint, we want to place that type of 25 oversight in the -- in the Human Resources Department, budget 7-20-07 bwk 9 1 it through that department, and then as those personnel 2 modifications or changes or whatever they are come about, of 3 course, H.R. department's going to know about that and can 4 begin to schedule whatever is appropriate for career 5 development for that particular individual or department head. 6 Is that essentially what I'm hearing? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a great idea. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Makes sense. Makes sense. 10 MS. HYDE: I've asked for John -- and we'd like to 11 talk to y'all about it. I don't know if this is the right 12 avenue, but we have surplus computers, and we'd like to take 13 some of those surplus computers, put them downstairs and start 14 some C.B.T., computer-based training, so that new employees -- 15 twofold. One, we can help train some of the newer employees 16 or existing employees on things like Excel, Word, Access. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Odyssey. 18 MS. HYDE: Odyssey, Incode. But also, we'd like to 19 set up a new-hire orientation so that we can do our E.E.O. 20 training, our haz. training, our harassment training, our 21 policy book training, and give them 30 days and allow them to 22 come down, so that anyone that's new hired for the new year, 23 you have 30 days, and we'll set up a training schedule. And 24 then throughout the next 12 months, existing employees can 25 also come down and be set up, 'cause everyone will know when 7-20-07 bwk 10 1 the training is, and they can sign up to be a part of that, so 2 that we can get our mandated training done as well. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good idea. I 4 had the occasion, for the last couple of weeks, to spend a 5 fair amount of time with our new auditor, because once again, 6 I was the one chosen to write the management discussion for 7 our audit, and had to go through the numbers, even though it 8 took me a rather long time to go through it this year. But I 9 think, from talking with her, she's got some ideas that are 10 going to take some computer training county-wide, or county -- 11 you know. And I think that would be a great facility to have, 12 you know, however many computers we need in a classroom-type 13 setting where they can get trained down there on specific 14 things that probably need to be done, such as, you know, 15 purchase order type things, you know, budget input 16 information, stuff like that. I'm sure she will be bringing 17 that to us throughout the year, based on my conversations with 18 her. So, I think it's -- there is a lot of -- it's a good 19 idea to do that, especially if we have computers already 20 in-house. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hyde, in this 22 orientation -- I'm just curious about this -- would you 23 include the insurance program? 24 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is that a -- you deal with 7-20-07 bwk 11 1 people like me, that it's an ongoing thing? 2 MS. HYDE: Well, I think that the -- we need to 3 start them out so they understand, that they can understand 4 what their -- what their insurance is, what it covers, what it 5 doesn't cover, how they can use it. A solid example is today 6 we had an employee come in and think that he could use his 7 card to cover his child, who's not covered under the 8 insurance, you know. So, there's still a lot of training and 9 understanding that needs to be got out there. So, yes, sir, 10 that would be part of it. There'd be a training for insurance 11 and then the mandatory training that we're not doing 12 currently. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, and then -- back 14 to the COLA issue. This Court has voted, and by court order 15 tied the COLA to some index that's out there. A couple of 16 times, actually. And -- are we still there? Or have we 17 decided that we're going to figure it out on our own? Or -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I don't know that we 19 have mandated that it be tied to any particular index. We 20 certainly look at a number of different indexes. You got 21 Department of Labor, Department of Commerce. You got urban, 22 nonurban, I guess. You've got southwest. You got all sorts 23 of different indices. I think -- I think we've used those as 24 a -- as a reference point, and in those cases where we have 25 made a decision that is equal to one of those indices, I don't 7-20-07 bwk 12 1 think it's necessarily an absolute that we've committed 2 henceforth to be tied to that indices, but rather just use it 3 as a -- as a reference point. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I think a prior 5 Court did mandate. I don't know how tied that is, or even how 6 important that is. I like what you're saying, basically. 7 But -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What the Judge says, what we 9 did last year, we used the U.S. Department of Labor statistics 10 as our guideline, and we also knew what other governmental 11 entities were doing in the area as well. We factored all that 12 in and we came to a decision. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't -- I don't think -- or I 14 think, actually -- I can't recall whether it was last year or 15 the prior year, one of them was the same number as one of 16 those indices. But I don't think we, per se, adopted the 17 indice -- the index, did we? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we did not. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I didn't think so. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is really not related, but 21 one of the things that's always irritated me is when some of 22 the entities that we fund consistently give a higher than the 23 -- any number that I can come up with, from the governmental 24 entity. And I'm thinking of the Appraisal District as number 25 one on my list; they frequently -- every year that I've been a 7-20-07 bwk 13 1 Commissioner, I think they've outpaced the inflation rate in 2 their cost-of-living adjustments. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're notorious for that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I really think that there's 5 a -- you know, I'd like to see us come out with a -- maybe on 6 the next agenda, Jody -- just a policy about how, you know, 7 just -- we don't like it when they do that. I mean, I think 8 people should be -- shouldn't go backwards in any given year; 9 they ought to be tied to an indices, a real one. But to 10 consistently outpace, you know, when we're funding that, you 11 know, with tax dollars, which the Appraisal District does 12 every year. They come out -- and we usually vote against 13 their budget every year for this very reason, and it does no 14 good. And it gets very little press, generally, too. I think 15 that, you know -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think they have a 17 different formula for calculating than we do. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Essentially, they take a 20 look at what other governmental entities are doing, and they 21 take a look at the indices that the Judge referred to, but 22 they also -- I'm advised they also crank the unused dollars 23 from the previous budget year, and they put that into a pool 24 somehow. So, their formula for doing this is different than 25 ours, but the end result is what you say. 7-20-07 bwk 14 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: End result is that they're 2 higher than -- they may look at the other governments. They 3 pick the highest around and then add a little bit to that, you 4 know, and every year -- I mean, one year we may be high, one 5 year K.I.S.D. may be, or who knows? But they're consistently 6 high. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: K.I.S.D., the state mandates 8 a lot of theirs. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think I circulated 10 copies of what we received from the Appraisal District. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They've taken a new approach this 13 year. They basically cranked in a -- a COLA, but they created 14 a merit increase pool, which is in a different budget category 15 and not allocated directly to salaries of the existing 16 individuals. But when you -- when you crank that in, the 17 aggregate increase -- and I'm speaking from recollection, but 18 I think it's fairly clear -- is approximately 7 percent. I -- 19 I strongly suspect that those -- that pool will be suddenly 20 dissipated. I think that's the anticipation. Another -- 21 another situation that we have seen consistently is some of 22 our district offices that we budget for. They plug in 23 consistently 5 percent salary increases every single year into 24 their budget. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- give me an example of a 7-20-07 bwk 15 1 district office. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: District Judges. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: District Courts. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, courts. Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: District Courts. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Auditor's salary. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said the Auditor's salary. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the Auditor has a separate 10 budget. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's set -- it's not set by 12 this Court. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's true. But, you know, 14 we've got a two-tiered employee structure in this county. 15 And, you know, let's don't dance around it. Let's call a 16 spade a spade. We've got employees that work solely for Kerr 17 County, and then employees that fall under those other 18 structures that -- you know, that are basically under our same 19 benefits package, but are compensated differently. And what 20 they look at in the way of proposed increases historically has 21 been -- has been better, and I'm not -- I'm not sure that's 22 fair. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's interesting about 25 KCAD is -- in this context, is that they -- they list the 7-20-07 bwk 16 1 salaries and what they intend to do, and the COLA's listed at 2 3.3 percent, but if you look at the other sheet over there, 3 salaries as a whole is listed at 7 percent, so there's a 4 quantum leap between 3.3 and 7. How they get there, I'm not 5 sure. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The difference is the pool. They 7 don't -- they don't allocate that directly. They got it over 8 here, but I'll make a wager with you right now, Commissioner, 9 that at the end of the year, all that money is expended. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. I wouldn't call 11 that bet, Judge. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They may be overbudgeting to 13 plan for that for the following year. They will have an 14 excess. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, it's -- maybe a 16 resolution to these people that are doing this that are 17 affecting the Kerr County taxpayers. It probably won't do any 18 good, but at least it'll make me feel better. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we can do something 20 about the District Courts and those employees up there, 21 because there are certain statutory duties they have that they 22 have the right to fund, like the Auditor and the District 23 Attorneys and things like that, but I don't believe they have 24 the authority to mandate us to give to the other employees -- 25 they're actually Kerr County employees; they're not employed 7-20-07 bwk 17 1 by District Court. And I believe that it needs to be a policy 2 that we set whatever increases they're going to be, and they 3 be standard and even throughout all of our employees, and not 4 allow anybody to do that. Or if they want to do it, then they 5 can go about it a different way. But I really believe that it 6 needs to be consistent from -- through all county employees. 7 Whatever we decide, that's the way it should be. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's really the point of 9 what I'm saying. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it is. I just want to 11 reiterate that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see two agenda items, then. 13 One is the entities, and one is Kerr County employees. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll see how it plays out in 16 the coming months. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we found some more work for 19 Ms. Hyde. That'll keep her off the streets at night. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, one thing you have to 21 consider on the district employees is, I don't think, you 22 know, Kerr County can dictate what the other counties want to 23 pay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's true. We can only dictate 25 what we do. 7-20-07 bwk 18 1 MR. TOMLINSON: So we're talking -- only talking -- 2 we're talking about Kerr County's -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: -- share. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, if Kendall County 7 wants to make up the difference, that's okay, or whoever. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we're responsible for the Kerr 9 County taxpayers' funds, and we'll -- I'm going to let Judge 10 Schroeder worry about his folks down in Kendall County. Yes, 11 ma'am? 12 MS. HYDE: Can you clarify my "keep off the street" 13 thing tonight so that I understand exactly what it was that 14 I'm looking at to put a policy under? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You're looking at new employee 16 orientation and training. 17 MS. HYDE: I got that one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Computer training. 19 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You're looking at the other training 21 for new and existing employees on sexual harassment, -- 22 MS. HYDE: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Open Records, open meetings, all 24 those mandatory type of subjects that they need. And you're 25 also in charge of monitoring career development and scheduling 7-20-07 bwk 19 1 training for that. 2 MS. HYDE: Okay, thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you want, you can take a stab 4 at a resolution. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you get the supervisor 6 training in that, Judge? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's career development, new 8 managers and supervisors. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one more question 12 before you get off into whatever you're fixing to get off 13 into, and that is the forms that you sent out. You sent me 14 one to fill out. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For my budget. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you send out the same 19 form to everyone? Or just -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then we get back 22 different -- all kinds of different things, one that I can't 23 read. And I'm wondering -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That won't happen next year, I 25 don't think. I think the -- in talking with the Auditor, 7-20-07 bwk 20 1 she -- the Auditor has told me that she thinks we need to go 2 into a -- it's all done computerized, no more handwritten 3 stuff. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Every department will input into 6 the computer; the Judge will look at it, then they'll meet. 7 Obviously, no change in all that. But it's going to all be on 8 one form and one computer. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and it should be. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, as an example, this -- 12 let's see, who is this? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a D.A. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 198th D.A. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That -- I don't know what the 17 hell he's talking about. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The D.A.'s do their own 20 forms. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got -- we've got a few that are 22 -- that have taken license with how they put their numbers 23 together. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for saying that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Diplomatic assessment. 7-20-07 bwk 21 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In years past, it wasn't 2 anywhere -- wasn't on this form; it was more like on a yellow 3 note pad, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Toilet paper. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think that I would 6 have been as kind. More like bastardization of the process. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somewhere, we have some numbers 9 about the cost-of-living, so why don't we talk about what that 10 number's going to be? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Indices. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't Ms. Hyde -- 14 MS. HYDE: There's one to add. I went ahead and put 15 down the Social Security from 2006, and it was 3.3, so you 16 could add that one to it. It's about -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Show me what document 18 you're -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was in our box. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this something we just 22 got? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In our box. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I presume Ms. Hyde put this 7-20-07 bwk 22 1 together. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, I believe she did. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All urban wage earnings, all 4 that stuff. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All kinds of numbers. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there is -- there is no lack of 7 indices that are available for you to look at. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hyde, can you decipher this? 9 Is this kind of a recommendation that you see, or an average 10 of looking at a bunch of these that would be applicable to 11 Kerr County? 12 MS. HYDE: I looked at the ones that were wide-open, 13 and then I went ahead and I pulled out Social Security, 14 Government Workers, Government Workers of Southwest. The 15 D.O.L. website gives you multiples, and -- Department of Labor 16 website. And it looks like right now, the indice runs 17 anywhere from 2.7 all the way up to 3.6. It's a wide range, 18 depending on who you're looking at. The government -- the 19 government indices are 3.3 and higher right now. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess we need to know what 22 kind of a budgetary impact a 3, 3.5 would have on our overall 23 bottom line. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think -- I mean -- I mean, 7-20-07 bwk 23 1 what -- the answer is yes, but what we've kind of done in the 2 past is that that comes first. I mean, we figure out what the 3 impact is, but that we decide what that is and we do that, and 4 then everything else falls in place based on that, because our 5 number one priority should be employees. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a big ticket. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure it is. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That and insurance, the big 9 tickets, outside of the Sheriff's Department. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, it is a big 11 ticket, and that's the reason we've been very, very tight in 12 our budget for the last several years, because of that. 13 That's also why I think the Court as a whole, probably led by 14 the Judge, has been pushing for voluntary staff reductions in 15 departments, so we can figure out how to improve productivity 16 and increase salaries when that happens. Because the salary 17 item is a huge ticket. But, I mean, we have to pick a number 18 somewhere to start with. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're going to need to know 21 the budgetary impact, if y'all can make a calculation for us, 22 3 point -- three different calculations; 3.3, 3.5, and 3.7. 23 Will that work? And that'll at least give us some benchmarks 24 to start with. They ought to be able to calculate those. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of course, it's going to be 7-20-07 bwk 24 1 with all the rollups. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd do one at 3. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I'd do a 3. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The numbers, Ms. Hyde said from 6 2.7 to 3.6. Well, 3.1, 3.2, somewhere in there is where I -- 7 you know. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think I'd start at 9 3. 10 MS. HARGIS: Start at 3? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Start at 3 percent. And, of course, 12 that's going to include all the rollups with the taxes and the 13 retirement and so forth that we'll need. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, retirement's separate 15 anyway. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but it's based off of -- it's 17 based off the base salary pool. 18 MS. HYDE: Base salary. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have any -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Part of the rollup. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have any preliminary 23 numbers from the Appraisal District, do we? We see all the 24 stuff in the paper, but we -- have we gotten anything yet? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The first numbers we got were from 7-20-07 bwk 25 1 Ms. Hargis last week, and they were -- they were not too 2 comforting. The first estimate indicated that ad valorem tax 3 revenues were going to be less than what they were last year. 4 You know, that's how I interpreted those numbers. Maybe -- 5 maybe I missed something. 6 MS. HARGIS: Well, the preliminary roll that we 7 received shows 12 million in, and Tommy said we received about 8 11 last year. So, the preliminary roll with the freeze amount 9 is about 12 million, but that has to be broken out in each 10 department. And what I gave you last time was not correct, 11 because I didn't know where he had the numbers, so if you'll 12 just throw that out. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Throw the previous one out? 14 MS. HARGIS: That sheet I gave you. Now, the 15 preliminary sheet we received from the Appraisal District does 16 show the 12 million. I can't give you the whole number. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 18 MS. HARGIS: And so that shows a slight increase of 19 about a million, two. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. HARGIS: So -- but, you know, I don't know how 22 the breakdown is yet, because I'm not familiar with that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, you're talking about 24 all the media attention given to the value increases. One of 25 the reports I saw said that a large portion of that increase 7-20-07 bwk 26 1 was in rural land. You know what happened there. The market 2 value increase is up considerably, but the vast majority of 3 those, I suspect, are ag values, so the -- the tax impact is 4 virtually nil. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, lest we think there's a big 7 bonanza out there, I don't think there is. Not from that 8 source, at least. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that story that you're 10 referring to indicated 19 percent, but about -- like, about 11 50 percent of it is the ag value difference -- differential. 12 Most everybody -- everybody talks about their evaluation of 13 their individual property is going up about 10 percent. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, there should be a pretty 16 big increase. Ag values, rural land values went up, but that 17 was constant. The ag values were unchanged from last year, 18 but the -- you know, homes and all the other went up anywhere 19 from, you know, 7 to 10 percent, so there should be a -- you 20 know. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There will be some increase, 22 but also, you -- you get that -- that number comes as kind of 23 a -- kind of a foul number, because you have a lot of people 24 that are over 65, and their taxes are frozen. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7-20-07 bwk 27 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And their valuation has gone 2 up tremendously, but it doesn't change the amount of dollars 3 they're paying in taxes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're supposed to 5 give us the amount of dollars that was frozen. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their number factors that in 7 automatically. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They did last year. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just -- you know, 10 that's -- what gets reported in the paper includes all of 11 that -- that increase, I believe. And it doesn't take into 12 consideration that being taken out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That portion of it where tax -- the 14 tax amount is frozen. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And you've got some additional that 17 is frozen this year over and above what was frozen last year. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of an additional group of 20 folks turning 65. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct me; something like 23 700 million last year was frozen? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Something like that, best I 25 remember. 7-20-07 bwk 28 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge? Another thing that you 3 probably want to consider, and I don't -- we don't have a note 4 -- a handle on the exact amount, but it appears through our 5 projections as of end of May, our fund balance will erode 6 about 2 and a half percent below what our policy is. And -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Below what? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: What our policy is. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: And we probably need -- we want to 11 look at it again at the end of July to -- to tweak the number, 12 make sure that we haven't missed something. So, that is a 13 consideration, to keep that fund balance within your -- within 14 your policy. So, right now, through May, it's 23.58 percent. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 23.58? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: 58. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 58? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that also -- at the end of 20 last year, it was down to 19.7, I believe. Isn't that right? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I believe, yeah, right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It got -- it went way -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It dipped just below 20, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 19.7 percent. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the policy, 20? 7-20-07 bwk 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 25 percent. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 25? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we were -- we've recovered 4 from where we were a year ago, but still not back to where 5 we're supposed to be. And that was largely done because of 6 the whole Juvenile Detention Facility, that -- and we knew 7 that it was coming. And we knew -- you know, and we hoped and 8 felt that it was going to recover, and it has, but it's still 9 not all the way back to where we wanted to have it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, if I'm reading these 11 preliminary numbers correctly, on the -- on the taxable 12 values, it -- preliminary numbers show about 860 million is 13 our freeze taxable values. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's up 160 million from 15 last year. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Roughly. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's preliminary numbers. That -- 19 if I'm reading them correctly, and I hope that I am. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Appraisal District gets a -- 21 they've got -- values have gone up, and a lot of people are 22 going to be protesting, but also the other side of that is 23 that very few people would sell their property for what the 24 Appraisal District valued it at, home or anything else. I 25 mean, their -- their -- you know, the numbers are not bad 7-20-07 bwk 30 1 numbers. They may not be -- we're all having to pay them, but 2 that's what's happened to the real estate around here. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The certified tax roll's due at the 4 end of this month, so we should be -- you know, in another 10 5 days or so, we should be getting a better handle on where we 6 are in terms of what our -- what our taxable income is. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That has to be certified a month 8 earlier, correct? June 30? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think that passed. That was 10 early June. That bill -- they would have had to certify the 11 tax rolls, like, June the 6th or something. It was -- I don't 12 think that bill passed. 13 MS. HARGIS: I don't think so. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That would have been nice, for 15 planning purposes, to have the certified tax rolls then, 16 but -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seemed pretty optimistic to me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have anything else on 21 the organizational development category that we need to thrash 22 out here? Okay, let's move on to step and grade schedules. I 23 know last year, there was considerable work done on the step 24 and grade schedules, and as a result of that, we consolidated 25 everything under one step and grade schedule for all 7-20-07 bwk 31 1 departments; law enforcement, administrative and so forth. 2 And I thought we'd got everything pretty much where we wanted 3 to, and it flowed up and down and diagonally and so forth. 4 Anything we need to do with it this year? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- at this point, no, 6 but during the year -- I mean, I think our step and grade is 7 excessively cumbersome and lengthy for an entity like this 8 county is. I think there are lots of -- you know, and that's 9 just something Ms. Hyde -- sometime she might want to look at 10 it, 'cause I think it's -- we have how many different steps 11 now? If we count -- 12 MS. HYDE: We have a lot, 38. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 38. Does that include all the 14 half steps? 15 MS. HYDE: No. No, it's 38 plus your halves. And 16 so one of the things I wanted to talk about as we get going is 17 to look at a min-max type as well. So, I've requested from 18 everyone job descriptions -- you know, current job 19 descriptions. I think the last job descriptions were updated 20 in 2000, and that's been a little bit slow going, 'cause it's 21 budget time; a lot of things are going on. But what we'd like 22 to do is set things up like I've done with Commissioner 23 Oehler. When you're looking at folks, especially -- 'cause 24 you want to train if possible from within to help employees be 25 successful, then you look at maybe the grades. You have a 7-20-07 bwk 32 1 min -- you know, minimum, a midpoint, and then a max, so that 2 you know where you stand within that grade and what those jobs 3 can be. Because a lot of folks feel like if they learn 4 something new or they add something to their job, then they 5 deserve a raise. And what we're trying to do is make sure 6 that when they're trained, they understand that here's where 7 you start and this is where we need you to finish for this 8 grade, which is not the most popular discussion at times. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, at this point, I 10 don't have anything to add, but I think we need to look at it 11 during the year. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All the changes we made have 13 worked successfully during the year? All the changes that 14 were made? 15 MS. HYDE: So far. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not necessarily? Not 17 exactly? 18 MS. HYDE: Sort of. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sort of. 20 MS. HYDE: There's less confusion. We've posted the 21 step and grade so people know. We've posted the position 22 schedule so they know where they're supposed to be, and that's 23 helped a lot. A lot of people didn't know how much money they 24 were supposed to make, period, so that's helped with a lot of 25 the confusion. 7-20-07 bwk 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with Commissioner 2 Letz; we need to simplify it if at all possible. 3 MS. HYDE: We've talked about the time -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the very reason you just 5 stated. 6 MS. HYDE: We've talked about the timekeeping, and 7 the County Attorney is looking at the contracts before we can 8 put it on the agenda to present so that we have a timekeeping 9 file, 'cause currently that's not available. Everything is 10 paper. It's very cumbersome, but that would be during the 11 Commissioners meetings that we can present and show you what 12 we're looking at. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, do you -- with our existing 14 compensation structure, what we're actually paying our people 15 and all the way across the scale, do you see a way that we can 16 feasibly not reinvent the wheel or upset the apple cart and 17 simplify that step and grade schedule? 18 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. That's all I 20 needed. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have an H.R. software 22 package that's unique for H.R.? 23 MS. HYDE: There's several out there, but we haven't 24 purchased any. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason I ask is because 7-20-07 bwk 34 1 they just authorized the director of AACOG to purchase one, 2 and she reviewed many of them. You know, I'll give you that 3 information, because it looked like it's very inclusive, very 4 comprehensive, and it ties everything together all the way 5 through accounting, payroll, the whole bit. I have that; I'll 6 give it to you. 7 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we through with that one? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, one more. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One more step. When you talk 12 about adjusting the step and grade during the year, you're 13 talking about the budget year that we're in? I mean, if we're 14 going -- in my mind, if we're going to do -- make any changes 15 to that, we need to do it before the new budget. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you do it -- make it 17 effective the first of next budget year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That's what you're 19 talking about, -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- "during the year"? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: During the year. You figure it 23 out during the year, and then you make it effective the 24 following year. 'Cause, yeah, you do it during the budget. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Between now and October 1? 7-20-07 bwk 35 1 Or -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you make it -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- October 1, '09? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be effective -- 5 hopefully, a new system effective October 1, '08. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? Let's move on to 8 Nondepartmental. You're going to come in under Tab 2. You 9 should, I believe. The Auditor has provided us with some 10 figures that I've asked for to -- a lot of them are insurance 11 items, and I appreciate you getting -- y'all getting this 12 together for me. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we used to have a 15 category called Water Development. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there someplace; I 17 saw it this morning. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought it was in here, too. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May be under Commissioners 20 Court. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's under Commissioners 22 Court. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wasn't too much in it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, County Water Rights. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, there it is. 7-20-07 bwk 36 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a different item. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That item is the -- I believe is 5 Road and Bridge's -- or Parks that we pump out the water. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we had a different one 8 for -- actually, I think it was Water Development, whatever we 9 called it. We didn't fund it, I don't think, the last two 10 years, so it may have dropped off. Tommy, do you recall the 11 water development? Was it under Nondepartmental? We had it 12 for a couple years. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Region J? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where it was used in the 15 past. But we didn't fund it, I don't think, the last two 16 years, so it may have just dropped off. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: What may have happened, this -- this 18 printout may have omitted a line item that we haven't used. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: That's not an active item. We have 21 to look in the system to see if it's still there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: It's called Water Development? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Water Development, I think, is 25 what we used to call it. And it was done to cover the 7-20-07 bwk 37 1 administrative costs of Region J. We funded it; the City of 2 Kerrville funded it. But the -- the thought is -- I visited 3 briefly with Commissioner Williams on this. With the Center 4 Point, you know, sewer project type issue, and also the 5 memorandum of understanding that the County has with Guadalupe 6 Blanco River Authority, I spent quite a bit of time last year, 7 early in the year, working in a lot of meetings with Bill West 8 with G.B.R.A. trying to firm up that MOU. And what -- and 9 U.G.R.A. participated in a lot of those meetings. And what we 10 found was -- what I found was you need an attorney on your 11 side in those discussions, and it may be the same one that 12 U.G.R.A. uses. I dealt with them, and I think we ought to put 13 some money here, probably $2,500, $3,000, so we can really try 14 to firm that up. I'm very worried about Bill West retiring 15 and that MOU not being fulfilled. And also, a recent article 16 I've read that -- that water pool that we're -- that we're -- 17 our MOU comes out of, there's only about 3,000 to 4,000 18 acre-feet that's not committed. The cities around the north 19 side of San Antonio especially have been clamoring to come up 20 and buy that Canyon Lake water, and I want to make sure that 21 that water is -- is firmed up for Kerr County, the 3,000 22 acre-feet. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. And 24 there's a corollary issue that we talked about, and that has 25 to do with whether or not U.G.R.A. develops a water component 7-20-07 bwk 38 1 that goes with our sewer component. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And how that might tie in 4 with Kendall County's need, and them -- and U.G.R.A. treating 5 water, for example, in Center Point and piping it down. That 6 would be an upstream diversion, based on what they can do down 7 there. But there are legal issues; we need to help sort those 8 out. We need to sort them out as it applies to us. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And -- anyway, I just -- 10 I've learned a lot, so I think -- I don't think it's a huge 11 amount of money. Tony Corbett is who U.G.R.A. uses. He's 12 very good, but there's a lot of very good water attorneys. 13 There may be someone else U.G.R.A. is using. But I think that 14 it's a -- a goal of mine is to -- to is to get that memorandum 15 of understanding converted to something firmer than it 16 currently is, and I think it will take some expertise on the 17 legal side to get that done. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ed McCarthy's another good 19 one. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ed McCarthy's another good one. 21 There's quite a few very good ones, most of them in Austin. 22 The guy who's chairman of one of the regions is excellent. I 23 can't think of his name. Anyway, there's several. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be under 25 Commissioners Court? 7-20-07 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Nondepartmental is where 2 it's used. Nothing under Water Development. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it still there? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not here any more. I think 5 it got probably dropped out 'cause it wasn't funded the last 6 two years because Region J, when it originally was put in 7 there, didn't need it. We don't spend much money on 8 administrative costs. We still have about 13,000 in the 9 budget, which is enough to get us through the next two-year 10 cycle. So, I don't think -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, you have a line here, 12 County Water Rights. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- that, I believe, goes to 14 Road and Bridge and Parks, water that comes out of the 15 Guadalupe River. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it does. You're right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We can create a 406 or 408 or 19 something right under there and put in Water Development, 20 or -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a note on it. We might find 22 it, or it may be in the system already. It just didn't print 23 on this -- on this printout. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- okay. 7-20-07 bwk 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a good idea. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And Water Development -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $3,000. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under Nondepartmental? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Sorry, was that all on 7 Nondepartmental, Judge Tinley? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Was that the end of Nondepartmental? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no. We're -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We're just now getting -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the first thing on 14 Nondepartmental. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't leave, though. You could 17 miss it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, under Commissioners 19 Court, I saw a line, I think -- yeah, the Professional 20 Services. Somewhere. I thought I did. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 486. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. It could come out of 23 that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to say, that used 7-20-07 bwk 41 1 to be all, you know, legal fees, engineering fees, 2 professional services. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be a better way to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to figure out a way 5 to earmark it to make sure it stays there. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we remember during the 7 year. I mean, that way, if it ended up being $3,010 or -- you 8 know, you don't have to do a budget amendment. Or if it comes 9 in less -- you know, that's probably a better spot to put it. 10 I would agree with that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I actually increased that a little 12 bit because of increased costs that we're going to have in 13 Professional Services. So, do you want to just take it out of 14 the Nondepartmental? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Want to add another three 17 onto that number that the Judge wrote? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know what -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not the Judge's 20 handwriting. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody's handwriting. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's mine. 23 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We spent 19,8 this year, 25 year-to-date? 7-20-07 bwk 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And, I've increased that to 2 25. Do we need to increase it some more? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you increased it for 4 reasons that you thought about before we started talking about 5 water development. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I just increased it generally because 7 of the continuing need for professional services that -- that 8 we have, and I thought that was an appropriate increase to put 9 on there. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. But should we 11 do it more because of the water? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't have the water thing 13 specifically in mind. Let's put 28 there. We can always come 14 back to change that later. All right, got 'er done. Okay. 15 Anything else in Nondepartmental that -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: Judge Tinley, I do have a line item 17 564 where you've indicated mainframe maintenance to move to 18 the I.T. budget. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 MR. TROLINGER: That can actually be zeroed, and no 21 -- no money needs to be transferred to I.T. We now have a 22 five-year maintenance, basically, that's paid for as part of 23 the Odyssey/Incode/Orion project. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MR. TROLINGER: So zero dollars need to be budgeted. 7-20-07 bwk 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll just draw a line there. 2 MR. TROLINGER: But I have a contingency, and the 3 contingency is because of the situation with voter 4 registration software. We need to have a contingency to 5 replace that server at $16,500. I have not put it in any 6 budget line item, but I -- I don't believe we'll have a 7 decision -- or we won't know the status of the state system 8 until after October. It'll be closer to January before we 9 know whether or not the state system will be adequate, and if 10 it is not, we may have to continue -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're speaking of the new and 12 improved and highly touted state system? Is that the one 13 we're speaking of? 14 MR. TROLINGER: The TEAM, the state-provided voter 15 registration. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The one that doesn't work right 17 now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody in the state says 19 it doesn't work, so -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It doesn't work for those that have 22 Odyssey, I think is the problem. Isn't that the issue? 23 MR. TROLINGER: It's not related to Odyssey at all. 24 It's a separate -- the state was going to provide a 25 replacement for our Legacy, which is what we're calling the 7-20-07 bwk 44 1 mainframe, and right now we continue to do voter registration 2 and jury on that. All the users will be off of the mainframe 3 as of the end of this fiscal year, with the exception of voter 4 and jury. So, if we need to continue -- if we need to 5 continue to support those products, we will need to replace 6 that server next year. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be in your budget 8 or the Nondepartmental? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Well, that's why I'm bringing it up 10 for Nondepartmental. In the past, that contingency had been 11 placed in Nondepartmental, and I just wanted to make sure we 12 didn't overlook that before we moved on. I don't believe it 13 needs to be in Nondepartmental. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather see all -- 15 personally, I'd rather see all I.T.-related matters 16 consolidated into the I.T. budget. You can put an identifier 17 on them, but that's -- that's where they belong, to my view. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- some of these 19 contingency funds we put in this budget so that the Court had, 20 you know, I guess, -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Control. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- control over this department. 23 And rather than have every department put contingencies in, we 24 did it one time, knowing that every department is going to 25 need it. 7-20-07 bwk 45 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, let me give you a percentage 2 chance. There's a 50-50 shot that we'll have to replace that 3 machine at $16,500. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's because the State's -- the 5 state system is a flop, huh? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Essentially, yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like the Hertz commercial. 8 Not exactly, huh? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- 10 MR. TROLINGER: It's not the entire reason, but it's 11 the majority of the reason for retaining -- for replacing the 12 server. But if that does not come to fruition, we'll have a 13 large amount of money in the I.T. budget, which I don't -- I 14 don't know if that would be fair. I don't know if it would be 15 -- if it would be more conducive to keep it in 16 Nondepartmental. That way, if it becomes free -- if we make a 17 decision in April 2008, then that money's freed up for 18 Nondepartmental use. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather keep one contingency 20 under Nondepartmental. Then we can put it into whatever 21 department needs it, as needed. I think that number may be 22 low, thinking -- or knowing we have one single 16,000 hit that 23 we need to budget for. Increase it to -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 50? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Increase -- basically, you 7-20-07 bwk 46 1 increased it 10 already. Go up to 40? That would be -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, again, back on the same 3 issue that we just came off of, Bill was saying you had 4 something in your mind when you added the 10. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Here's what I had in mind. We 6 budgeted about 25. We've already spent that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And more. So, obviously, 25 wasn't 9 enough. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So that's why I increased it 12 generally to 35. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're going to have to 14 almost tack on the 16. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Run it to 50. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to 50. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me ask you a 19 question. What are the little asterisks? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the numbers that I need 21 from the Auditor's office. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Primarily on the insurance items, 24 they're coded there at the tail end. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 7-20-07 bwk 47 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And we got those numbers. Did you 2 get a copy of this sheet? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Today, wasn't it? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It was probably right next to the 7 D.A.'s. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looks kind of like it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I looked at that one and said forget 10 it. Okay, anything else on the Nondepartmental? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde has her hand up. 12 MS. HYDE: Would Nondepartmental also include, like, 13 for the I.T. portion, for -- if we decided, yes, we wanted an 14 H.R.I.S. system as well? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Wanted an H.R. -- 16 MS. HYDE: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Human Resources information 18 system unique to that department's needs? 19 MS. HYDE: Or would that go into -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be in yours. 21 MS. HYDE: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably go in your budget. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that would be specifically -- 24 MS. HYDE: Even though it's utilized for every 25 single county employee? 7-20-07 bwk 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, but it's utilized through your 2 department. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everything you do is for 4 every -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's unique, only for your 6 department. It's designed for your department. 7 MS. HYDE: Right. I just wanted to make sure -- the 8 Sheriff was concerned that we would allocate out, and so 9 that's -- I just wanted to make sure that I understood it 10 right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ready to go -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we done talking about 13 the sheet here that you just looked up? The one we got that 14 had some of these numbers on it? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All of the numbers that you 16 see there that are not highlighted were ones that were already 17 plugged into the Nondepartmental. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of the 19 Auditor. Jeannie, you developed this sheet, I think? 20 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. This is just a balancing sheet. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is 497, Statement of 22 Facts? What is that? Under -- $25,000 item. What is that? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's under Commissioners? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Says it's under 25 Commissioners Court. 7-20-07 bwk 49 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to relate to one of the 2 court issues. We don't have a 497 under Commissioners Court. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think so. That's 4 why I questioned it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have a 497 under 6 Nondepartmental. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Court. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, we do have it in County Court 9 budget. We have it in the various District Court budgets and 10 the County Court at Law budget. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But, you know, that's that 25 out of 13 there. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it needs to be in a 15 different column, then. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 18 MS. HARGIS: Just a second. It was under County 19 Court, Statement of Facts. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Needs to go over a column. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, but not 25,000. 22 MS. HARGIS: No, it was -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: A hundred bucks. 24 MS. HARGIS: -- a hundred bucks. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a big difference 7-20-07 bwk 50 1 there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That's my budget. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Y'all let me have the 4 difference? 5 MS. HARGIS: I think I must have that on the wrong 6 line item. Hang on a second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a big increase, too. Haven't 8 used anything this past year. Okay. We're at Commissioners 9 Court now. When you fish out the red herring, you'll note on 10 out there in the left margin, on telephones, I mentioned cell 11 phones. We've talked about this thing for a while, about -- 12 we've got a number of different department budgets that -- 13 that have cell phones, and they're handled in different ways. 14 We need to put -- put that issue to bed, and we need to come 15 up with a policy and determine who has a need, and what that 16 allowance is going to be. And my thinking is, we just make a 17 flat dollar monthly allowance and be done with it. I don't 18 know. You got any other ideas? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's -- I think 20 that's a good approach to it. And then, of course, you have 21 to find who that flat amount goes to and for what reasons. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the flat amount's -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per month for cell phone 25 use. 7-20-07 bwk 51 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do you have? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm showing 40. I think that's 3 pretty much the base charge -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- under most plans that I've seen. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a little bit high. 7 I mean, I think that there are very few departments that have 8 to have cell phones. I think they're used by a lot, and 9 probably make productivity a little better. I'd be one to go 10 in that category, but I don't have to use it. I certainly do 11 use it a lot. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the one that keeps 13 coming up on us are J.P.'s, you know. And I suspect there's a 14 need there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I think they probably have 16 a need, because they get called out. But, I mean, I like 17 having a policy. I think we just need to, you know, do two 18 steps. I think 40 is probably not way out of line; 30, 40, 19 somewhere in there. I'd probably say 30, but -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think the basic 21 service plan is, what, 39.95 or something like that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a basic service plan. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Through Five Star. 7-20-07 bwk 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, 40, that's fine. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think most of them -- now, you got 3 some of these new players that are coming in that are cheaper 4 maybe, but your -- your major providers, I think -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you give an allowance, 6 doesn't it go in as income? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It should, yeah. 8 MS. HYDE: Y'all had asked me a while back to look 9 at cell phones. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 MS. HYDE: And I've talked to the new Auditor about 12 it as well, because currently we don't -- currently we don't 13 have a line item for cell phones. It all goes into 14 Communications. So, she says we can put a sub-line so that we 15 can see the cell phones. But I also checked the plans, 'cause 16 we've got several different folks on different plans. The 17 Sheriff's Department is all under one plan, and he receives 18 one bill, so he knows what all his people have done and how 19 much it is. It's a really good plan. I wouldn't want to 20 touch his plan, because it works real well for them, and I 21 think that y'all agree that they need those. On the other 22 employees, I've been trying to talk to Five Star about, can we 23 consolidate all the other plans similar to what the Sheriff 24 has? So that we have one bill; it gives us, by department, 25 the bill, and then we can see how much it is, and it's 7-20-07 bwk 53 1 basically $199 for the first phone, 9.95 for every additional 2 phone. So, how many cell phones do we actually have? 3 Somewhere between, depending on who you talk to, 50 and 100, 4 other than the Sheriff's Department. Because what -- then 5 some of them are personal phones where people are just getting 6 reimbursements. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's part of what 8 we need to take a look at. 9 MS. HYDE: And there's no way to track that; at 10 least I haven't been able to find the information or get the 11 information. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't like the personal phone 13 with reimbursement. You either give -- 14 MS. HYDE: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You either give an allowance or 16 you get a county phone. 17 MS. HYDE: I think that they ought to -- yeah, 18 absolutely. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it better be used for county 20 purposes, and keep track. 21 MS. HYDE: If they go over -- the policy also states 22 that if you go over, then you pay for it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not just on the going over part 24 of it, but if it's being used for county purposes and you go 25 over, that's -- you know, that could happen, and I understand 7-20-07 bwk 54 1 that. But I don't -- but if those numbers are coming in and 2 they're calling their wife five times a day, that shouldn't be 3 on the county -- 4 MS. HYDE: Right, that's what we're talking about. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the simpler way to go -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Allowance is certainly easier. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is an allowance, because 8 otherwise, if you're going to issue somebody a county phone, 9 they're packing around two different phones. I know what I'd 10 do; I'd leave the county phone sitting on the dresser most of 11 the time, probably. I don't want to pack but one. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's -- you know, if 14 it's important enough to use to get reimbursed for their 15 phone, they'll pack a county phone. Those that don't, won't. 16 And I would agree with you, I wouldn't pack a county phone. 17 I'd just absorb it into the way I'm a Commissioner; it comes 18 out of my salary. If I don't want to do it that way, I can 19 get a county phone. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Just like we do now. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just like I do now; I don't get 22 reimbursed for it. I don't ever get -- put in a reimbursement 23 for any reason. That's part of my -- I figure that's -- part 24 of my salary pays for that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, and I'm with you. 7-20-07 bwk 55 1 My question is, you said that there's a possibility of 100 2 phones out there outside the Sheriff's Office? 3 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. Because you've got 4 reimbursements, you've got people that use private cells. I 5 don't charge the county for my cell phone use. I don't think 6 John charges the county for his cell phone use. 7 MR. TROLINGER: No, I don't. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nether do I. Neither does 9 anybody else. 10 MS. HYDE: So that's our choice. We feel like we're 11 compensated. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's counting part of the 13 100 phones? 14 MS. HYDE: Well, yeah, because if you turn around -- 15 and some people are going to turn around and say, "Fine, I 16 want a phone." 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see what you're 18 saying. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'd rather almost go 20 with a -- if you want to get reimbursed, you get a county 21 phone and just use it for county purposes only. If you don't, 22 it comes out of your salary. No more cell phone reimbursement 23 is what I'm saying. Here's your option. You can get -- if 24 J.P.'s want it, and they're probably the ones that need it 25 'cause of when they're on call, they get a county phone. They 7-20-07 bwk 56 1 can carry two phones. If they don't want to do that, they can 2 absorb it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'd rather 4 give them an allowance. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're going to spend a 6 bunch more money if we do allowances. I'm not in favor of 7 spending more money. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's going to cost. Sure will. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everyone -- if we do an 10 allowance, well, then, all five of us are going to sign up for 11 it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, the Court's going to 13 decide who you're going to give the allowance to. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me it'd be a 15 nightmare to try to keep up with who has what, who gets 16 reimbursement and all that. You know, I -- I just don't 17 believe we need to give them anything, actually. I mean, cell 18 phone service is not that expensive. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're getting reimbursed 20 now, different -- all different rates, different things, and 21 some of them -- some of the J.P.'s, their bills are 150, 160 a 22 month that we're reimbursing them. 23 MS. HYDE: And some of our -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's questionable, in my mind. 25 MS. HYDE: Some of our service folks -- some of our 7-20-07 bwk 57 1 service folks' personal cell phones, especially recently, have 2 just been astronomical. Where, you know, it was never an 3 issue before, but here lately, evidently the phone number got 4 out. Everyone uses that phone number, so it's gone over their 5 minutes, which they typically didn't do, so you got $300 and 6 $400 cell phone bills. Which -- you know, because typically a 7 300-minute plan was fine. I'm using Animal Control, you know. 8 Animal Control gets lots of calls on the weekends and nights, 9 so when it went over, you're totally surprised. There's not a 10 way to, you know, look at your minutes, especially for 11 incoming, so she got popped with a huge bill. So, she turned 12 that cell phone off so that she can now use it as a county 13 only, and that's what it should have been, you know, before. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, personally, I think we 15 ought to go to one -- do like the Sheriff has done for the 16 rest of the county. You get a county phone. If you want -- 17 want it, then you get -- and it's going to only be used for 18 county purposes. And someone like myself, I won't sign up for 19 that phone, 'cause I don't want to carry two. But someone 20 like Maintenance, you know, if I was them, I would sign up. 21 I'd carry it, you know, 'cause -- 22 MS. HYDE: They've got a phone now. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know they have one now. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, what else we got on -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't want one. 7-20-07 bwk 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Commissioners Court budget? 2 MS. HARGIS: Judge, can we go back to the 25,000? 3 That 25,000 was for professional fees. I left out a line 4 item, so that you need to leave that in. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 6 MS. HARGIS: The 25,000 that you had under 7 Commissioners Court is for professional fees. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We just increased that to 28, 10 though. We rolled the water development professional fees 11 into that. 12 MS. HARGIS: Okay, but that's what that 25,000 is. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why it was -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was mistitled. It's not 15 Statement of Facts. 16 MS. HARGIS: I just left out the Professional line 17 item it's supposed to be. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But I show that as 28,000 for 19 Professional. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what do you want to do with 23 cell phones? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're on the right 25 track. If you need a county phone, get a county phone. I 7-20-07 bwk 59 1 mean, I'm with Bruce. I don't want one. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither do I. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they call me, I tell them 4 to call Bill. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you do. That's 6 what's running my numbers up. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to go under one 9 plan, and that means people are going to have to change. Some 10 of the J.P.'s will have to get -- they'll be issued a new 11 phone that's for county business, and -- you know, if they 12 want it. If they don't, they can not use it. But I think 13 it's ridiculous for us to be reimbursing in the neighborhood 14 of $150, $160 a month for cell phone use, because there's not 15 -- you know, that's just not -- not right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I use my personal cell phone 17 for county business. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So do I. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it's also posted on -- 21 I've got it on my voicemail. If people call in, they get my 22 cell number and my home number, so I use it constantly for 23 county business, but I don't ask for reimbursement. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of your choice and the way 25 you want to do business. 7-20-07 bwk 60 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like me and the rest of us up 3 here, I think. But I don't -- I mean, I don't -- I don't have 4 a problem with giving employees or other elected officials the 5 option of getting a county phone. If they choose not to, that 6 way -- I mean, I think the J.P.'s need to have cell phones. 7 They need to be accessible, especially their one weekend a 8 month when they're the ones on call. And if they want to use 9 a county phone, I have no problem issuing a county phone, but 10 there's no more -- there's just one centralized -- one bill, 11 one plan, and it's to be used for county business only. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That may be -- that may be the 13 easiest. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rather than give everybody an 16 allowance that's just going to cost, you know, money. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it costs money. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I only have one 20 other -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- possible here under 23 Commissioners Court. We talk about out-of-county mileage. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're at the six months 7-20-07 bwk 61 1 marker here, and we've already spent 9 of the 12. I see 2 you upped it to 15, but the question is, is that going to 3 get us -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Whether that's going to be adequate? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, based on fuel costs and 6 so forth. 18 might be closer. 7 MS. HARGIS: What line item were you on? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 475. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- with 401 under 11 Commissioners Court. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 475. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 475. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill takes all that money. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's not going to get it all. 17 I'm -- I'll do one. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The Judge gets some. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He does get the bulk of it, I 20 think. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he also has to put up with 22 AACOG to get it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two trips to San Antonio 24 every month. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay, keep doing it. 7-20-07 bwk 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You keep doing it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of what I think 3 about Environmental Health and you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you want to increase 5 it to? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18. From 15 to 18. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Bill, all I can say is, "Toyota: You 8 asked for it; you got it." 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on that 11 particular line? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anything else? 13 MS. HYDE: Why do we use the -- why do we use the 14 web site for mileage reimbursement? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we what? 16 MS. HYDE: Use the web site for mileage 17 reimbursement. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We do. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: State Comptroller, sure. That's the 20 benchmark. 21 MS. HYDE: What about if you have to go across town 22 back and forth to continue the business? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is for out-of-county, 24 this line. 25 MS. HYDE: San Antone. 7-20-07 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Austin. 2 MS. HYDE: Or Austin, or Dallas or wherever you're 3 going. But if you have to go back and forth -- I mean, y'all 4 do it too. I'm just asking so I kind of understand, 'cause I 5 get asked too. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Used to be, a long time ago, 7 almost every elected official had an allowance for mileage, 8 and we just rolled it in the salary, because it was part of 9 salary anyway. It was just -- so it was just -- the way I 10 think the Court looks at it now is that it's in your salary. 11 And we made an adjustment several years ago, because of the 12 increased driving costs, to salaries. I think it was about 13 two years ago, we increased it a little bit or something. 14 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, we increased salaries on some 15 officials or all officials for mileage? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 17 MS. HYDE: Or department heads? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The ones under Commissioners 19 Court. 20 MS. HYDE: If the Court feels that -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's only elected 22 officials that really rolled it into their salaries. And we 23 might look at that and say, because fuel costs have gone up, 24 maybe it's appropriate this year to increase all elected 25 officials' salary the COLA plus $300 for the mileage 7-20-07 bwk 64 1 component. I mean, that's how it would be done or has been 2 done in the past. 3 MS. HYDE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But we have -- if you're 5 going to a conference, for example, in Dallas, and the 6 conference line item is part of your budget, that travel 7 expense would go to that line item for that conference. 8 MS. HYDE: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Her request goes, I think, to -- if 10 you take the Comptroller's mileage from here to Austin and 11 back, it's going to give you "X" number of miles. What about 12 if you do 35 miles running around all over Austin as part of 13 that? 14 MS. UECKER: You lose it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: So sorry, yeah. 16 MS. HYDE: Yeah, because the reason why I was asking 17 is that we've had some training for people to go get 18 certified, so they went to Dallas -- went to Grapevine. Okay, 19 so they go to Grapevine, and then they have to travel 40 miles 20 one way to go to the conference, because we put them out there 21 'cause it's $60 cheaper on the hotels. So, really, it ends up 22 being a wash, unless you take your personal vehicle. So, you 23 know, 40 times five, 200 extra miles. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see what you're saying. 25 MS. HYDE: So, I just wondered, and that was a 7-20-07 bwk 65 1 question that was asked to me, and I was like, "No, what from 2 what I understand, we use the state Comptroller's from here to 3 there and back, that's it." 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, if you're going from 5 -- if there's a component going to Grapevine to Dallas, you 6 might want to do a round-trip to that every day while they're 7 there. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: To add on top of it. But you go to 10 the Comptroller's schedule to do that. 11 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, they can do that? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. Sure. 13 MS. HYDE: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But if they're within the same city, 15 you eat it. 16 MS. HYDE: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's the way it's done 18 with state employees, everybody. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so, yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing you might add to your 21 list, Ms. Hyde, a year or so ago, we looked at and then we 22 never did anything about the issue of employees using -- 23 running around town, or Kerr County primarily, using personal 24 vehicles for county business, and the insurance component of 25 that. 7-20-07 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How it relates. We never really 3 did anything. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we did. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we did. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Nondepartmental, 220. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you've got certain -- 9 you've got to put in an invoice for that amount of insurance. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It applies -- basically, it 12 applied more to you and me, because we run around in our 13 trucks. Mine is, like, 220 a year or something to add that 14 cost of liability for using my truck almost exclusively for 15 county business. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 220, I think, mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or the County Clerk going to 18 the bank every day, or the Treasurer going to the bank every 19 day. 20 MS. HYDE: So, they're supposed to be on the county 21 car insurance? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that Commissioners Court 23 or is that Nondepartmental? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's Nondepartmental. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nondepartmental. 7-20-07 bwk 67 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Auto insurance. Well, that 600 2 probably isn't enough. If it's being used -- I mean, it 3 probably needs to be used. Because, as I understand it, if -- 4 you know, if I'm on county business and I don't let my 5 insurance company know that, and I'm using my personal truck 6 and have an accident, there's an issue as to whether it's 7 covered, because my personal vehicle is not used for -- well, 8 mine is, but most people's is not. The policies aren't 9 written for business use. It's written for -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to and from work. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What this does is allows you to 13 put -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A rider. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- put an endorsement on your policy, 16 your personal policy. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And for -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then the County reimburses that 20 premium. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way I've been 22 doing it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we need to probably 24 educate the employees more, then, 'cause that needs to be 25 done. 7-20-07 bwk 68 1 MS. HYDE: 'Cause no one is. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah -- well, he is. That's why 3 it was $280 this year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 MS. HYDE: Where does that come out of payroll, 6 then? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Doesn't come out of payroll. 8 MS. HYDE: Do it out of A.P.? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: It's a reimbursement. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reimbursement. It's up to the 11 employee to adjust their policy and then bring the cost back 12 and get reimbursed. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Commissioner, there is an issue -- I 14 mean, from a personnel standpoint, in this training you're 15 talking about, it might be of some value to inform people that 16 use their personal vehicle for county business that if -- if 17 you don't tell your underwriter that you're using your vehicle 18 for personal -- for business use, then you might have an issue 19 if you ever had an accident. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Because -- because the premium 22 difference is -- I mean, they arrive at the premium difference 23 because it is used partially for -- for county business. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. That's why we 25 established this line item. 7-20-07 bwk 69 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. But I don't -- maybe -- 2 maybe a lot of people don't know that, and so they may -- they 3 may be telling their underwriter one thing, and in reality 4 they're doing something else. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if they end up in an 6 accident on county business, then -- in that vehicle, they're 7 going to really have a problem. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because they're not going to 10 be covered. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: That's exactly what I'm talking 12 about. 13 MS. HYDE: We have a lot. We have a lot of 14 employees that do, and -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we looked at the option. 16 The other option was to get a county -- a pool of County-owned 17 vehicles that people could use, and that was just not a 18 realistic option. I mean, this was a much better option for 19 everybody. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 21 MS. UECKER: So, I need to then talk to my insurance 22 person, 'cause in reality, I use my vehicle more for county 23 business than I do personal. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think almost every elected 25 official and some employees use their -- you know, some of the 7-20-07 bwk 70 1 deputies in the various departments, probably, like -- I mean, 2 not law enforcement deputies; like your deputies, the ones 3 that go to the bank, make a deposit, those types of people 4 need to add it. 5 MS. UECKER: Well, I try do that, you know, for that 6 reason, so they're not putting the mileage on their vehicles. 7 But I use mine more for county business than I do personal. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So your insurance agents know, 9 and that differential, the County will reimburse you. 10 MS. HYDE: A hundred percent? Or up to a certain -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The amount of liability, 12 additional liability. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy, we -- we solved one of these 14 problems of having a whole bunch of multiple bonds and 15 multiple policies by getting -- by getting that one single 16 coverage, loss coverage on all county employees here recently. 17 Did we investigate getting a rider on our liability policy -- 18 on our county vehicle liability policy that would cover 19 non-owned automobiles; i.e., various employee-owned 20 automobiles, while -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I think we did, but we got a "no" 22 answer, I think. But I'm -- I don't -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we confirm that? Because, 24 obviously, the simplest way to do it would be to get one 25 endorsement on our liability -- our vehicle liability policy 7-20-07 bwk 71 1 that would cover not only our own vehicles, but non-owned 2 vehicles when operated by employees on county business. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it covers -- it covers 4 non-owned vehicles, but it has to be for -- I think it's for 5 leased vehicles. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: For leased vehicles. I mean, there 8 is a rider that covers non-owned equipment or vehicles. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, lease and owned are pretty much 10 the same, so I can understand why that would be a part of it. 11 But let's confirm whether or not we can get an endorsement on 12 our vehicle liability coverage that will cover non-owned 13 vehicles when driven by employees on county business. 14 MS. HARGIS: But there's a -- $600 won't cover 15 everybody. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I understand that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to increase that number 18 either way, 'cause that's going to need to be flagged and get 19 an idea as to maybe -- I don't know. Bill -- let's use 20 whatever Bill's is, since he's the one doing it, get an idea 21 of how much that is, figure out how many employees, and come 22 up with an estimate. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that number that you 24 see in terms of YTD is probably mine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7-20-07 bwk 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $287 last year additional, 2 on top of -- of all other coverages that I pay for personally. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's an important issue, because 4 insurance companies are a lot pickier now when it comes to 5 filing on the claims. I mean, they ask these questions, where 6 in the past -- 7 MS. UECKER: That's not the word I would use, but... 8 (Laughter.) 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can only imagine the word you 10 would use, Linda. 11 MS. UECKER: Yes, you can. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't want to know. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got an idea what that 14 number should go to? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if yours is 287 -- I can't 16 even read it -- you figure that -- 17 MS. HYDE: Figure times 30 people. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least, yeah, 30 people. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $6,000. 20 MS. HYDE: At least. And then if you -- the 30 21 people, you multiply that times two for all their deputies, 22 or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe it also -- part of that 24 comes in, you need to, you know -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $9,000. 7-20-07 bwk 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, maybe 9,000 ought to be 2 that number. 3 MS. HARGIS: It's 84 now, 280 times 30. So, make it 4 nine? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make it 9,000. Then we can look 6 at it again, but that's probably -- that's certainly a lot 7 closer than 600. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 9 MS. UECKER: On the other side of that, I'm 10 thinking, okay, if I have an accident in my vehicle while on 11 county business, why would I tell anybody? Why? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why would you tell anybody? 13 What if you killed somebody? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It depends -- it depends a 15 little bit on -- 16 MS. UECKER: Unless I had case files laying all over 17 me, how would they know? You know? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, it may just be 19 part of your discussion. "What were you doing?" "Well, I was 20 going to the bank to make a deposit for the county." Oh. 21 MS. UECKER: Just leave that "for the county" part 22 off. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I know, but I think you're 24 -- I think we certainly need to give the employees this option 25 to get that reimbursement. Because Jody's -- 7-20-07 bwk 74 1 MS. HYDE: I look at John. I mean, John goes -- 2 with I.T., he's got to go to the Sheriff's Department, he goes 3 to Ingram, he goes out, you know, to the Ag Barn. So, if he's 4 doing any of that and he's involved in an accident -- 5 MR. TROLINGER: But I do got that coverage on my 6 insurance for business use, so -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See? John's already being 8 covered. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've got it. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Personally, I've already got that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This gives you the ability 12 to seek reimbursement. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The alternative to that would be 14 following Mrs. Uecker's suggestion, and include as part of our 15 employee training program that we teach our employees to be 16 deceptive. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, the District Clerk said 18 that? 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Break? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Have we thrashed out the 23 Commissioners Court pretty good here? Okay, let's go ahead 24 and take a break for about 15 minutes. 25 (A recess was taken from 10:32 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 7-20-07 bwk 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. 2 Unless somebody's got something additional on Commissioners 3 Court budget, we'll go to I.T. 4 MS. HYDE: Where's John? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-oh. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uh-oh, he left. 7 MS. HENDERSON: Just skip him. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is I.T.? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. There he is. By way of 11 general information, Mr. Trolinger has done a survey of the 12 equipment in all departments, and he has broken out for each 13 department what he sees as the current budget year equipment 14 needs for that department. In turn, each of those 15 departments, as best I can tell, has incorporated their 16 respective equipment need figures into their own individual 17 budgets. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have that, Judge? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 20 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's in here, all these 22 backups. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there's a series of worksheets 24 that he has that are attached. Should be right behind -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll keep going ahead. 7-20-07 bwk 76 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be right -- look right behind 2 the budget item itself. Got them? Okay. So, that's how he's 3 approached each individual department. Then he's got his own 4 individual budget for -- for his particular needs. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I ask a question -- general 8 question? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see notes on some of these, 11 and one of the -- you know, Road and Bridge, it says, "Sent. 12 Response, disregarding I.T. again." 13 MR. TROLINGER: The unofficial copy for Judge Tinley 14 has my notes on it. 15 MS. HYDE: Oh. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only copy you gave me. 17 MS. HYDE: Are you -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Always remember, Mr. Trolinger, we're 19 under the Open Records Act. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. Well, it's really -- it's 21 the third year in a row, and I do have some frustration over 22 there. I want to bring Road and Bridge under the county 23 network so they can enjoy the services that the County can 24 provide them, and for the third year, I'm basically -- you 25 know, as I wrote, it's not going to happen. 7-20-07 bwk 77 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's what I thought it 2 meant. And I think it needs to be dealt with. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's deal with it. 4 MR. TROLINGER: And by presenting the -- the budget 5 to you in this -- in this way, I feel that -- I felt that I 6 had a better chance to get it in Road and Bridge's budget this 7 year. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And what it says, like, under -- 9 so the "sent" for each one of them, that just shows that you 10 sent the request to them, and then your comments or -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. "Sent" means that I 12 actually -- you know, I either e-mailed it or presented it in 13 person to the department. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: As to the needs for that particular 15 department, in your estimation? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, it -- on all of them 18 that I've gone through before one-on-one with the elected 19 officials and department heads, what I have found is that they 20 are incorporating -- so far, at least -- those figures into 21 their particular budgets. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- the Road and Bridge 23 issue, I think, is pretty simple. We zero out everything that 24 they request until they do it this way. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will get their 7-20-07 bwk 78 1 attention. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the debate? You're 3 offering what? And they don't want it because? And -- 4 because they have what? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Essentially, they're a stand-alone 6 entity. They're not connected to the County network in any 7 respect. They've purchased computers on their own, for 8 instance, as, you know, one of the things they're doing 9 independently. I'd like to help out with that so that we can 10 get their system tied into the county system. In particular, 11 this year the County Clerk has a new software package being 12 installed this week, finish -- finishing this week, and that 13 allows or would allow viewing the plats, the land records. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would allow for Road and 15 Bridge to view -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: At their office. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- information? 18 MR. TROLINGER: You know, they say that they still 19 need to come to the courthouse for that official document, but 20 at some point a year or two from now, if they're on the county 21 network, we can install that software on their computer and 22 they can connect and look at the plats, the land records, 23 without having to drive over or make a phone call. And that's 24 just one -- that's one example. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other area that they're 7-20-07 bwk 79 1 about to have is budget. They're about to -- I mean, I firmly 2 agree with, from talking to Ms. Hargis, where she wants to go 3 or how she wants to go on some of this budget stuff, and 4 they're about to be on the county budget system, not on their 5 own like they have been. You know, and I just think that 6 it's -- they have -- they have resisted for a long time 7 conforming in this one area, and I think it's time they have 8 to start conforming with the rest of the county. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Telephone communication is 10 another area. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I agree with you 100 12 percent, but I want to know -- I'd like to know why they're -- 13 I mean, there's got to be a reason for them to resist. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they originally -- my 15 feeling is, I think we need to get -- obviously, bring this up 16 with Road and Bridge, but I think they were probably ahead of 17 the County for quite -- initially, before we had an I.T. 18 department, and they were doing things -- they were much more 19 computerized than any other departments, before we 20 computerized the rest of the county. And they did that 21 internally, but they did it on their -- their system. And now 22 the County's probably passed them up, and they don't want to 23 change their system. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's probably 25 fair. 7-20-07 bwk 80 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's, I think, what happened. 2 But I'm -- you know -- 3 MR. TROLINGER: And I'm not asking them to change 4 their system. I'm just asking that they be a part of the 5 county network so they can enjoy those services. And if I 6 could do things like back up their computers, which I don't 7 believe they have a, you know, program to do just basic things 8 like that, that that would be another benefit to them. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a good area where they 10 -- they keep very accurate time records on their employees, 11 but it's not done through the computer -- the county -- the 12 Odyssey system, and it could be. You know, but we -- but they 13 were probably the first department that implemented that very 14 accurate recordkeeping. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're shaking your head. 16 Can't be or shouldn't be? 17 MS. HYDE: The timekeeping within Odyssey-slash 18 Incode-slash whatever -- Tyler Technology, that is -- that 19 does not -- that is not a time -- doesn't have timekeeping. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is why they aren't using 21 the county system. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in that regard, yeah. 23 MS. HYDE: But they had it. They have -- they've 24 taken and basically took the spreadsheet that we have folks -- 25 folks are supposed to be filling out, and they have a 7-20-07 bwk 81 1 spreadsheet and they keep it, but they've got it online to 2 keep up with it online. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could they keep that if they 4 went on the county system? 5 MR. TROLINGER: It would be easier to copy files 6 back and forth, but yes, they could continue if they wish to 7 use that system. We do have plans for -- 8 MS. HYDE: We wouldn't want them to if we're going 9 to get an H.R.I.S. system and we have to get a timekeeping 10 system. We'd want them to use our timekeeping. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the problems with 12 the -- we have found through the whole -- going back through, 13 you know, Sheriff's Department and the step and grade and all 14 this stuff is that we have people all the time getting paid 15 wrong, and it's our system is the problem. It's not really 16 any of our individuals that are doing things wrong; it's just 17 that we need that -- need to be much more computerized so 18 people get accurate paychecks. 'Cause with the overtime and 19 all, that all has to be done manually, or too much of it has 20 to be done manually. There's too much room for error, plus 21 it's wasting a lot of time. And if we can get a system that 22 works, I think it needs to be implemented county-wide. 23 MS. HYDE: It's kind of like what you were saying, 24 Commissioner Baldwin, earlier about the budget sheets, that 25 they're different. Not all of them are the same, so it's hard 7-20-07 bwk 82 1 to understand what some folks are wanting out of those 2 budgets. Same thing with timekeeping. You know, some people 3 call comp time one thing, and they mean another. Some people 4 call it overtime. Some people forget to tell us that someone 5 isn't working here any more. So, those type of things. You 6 know, its tough. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it all comes down to 8 the controls are very weak in the county, and in a lot of 9 areas, and they need to be tightened up. 10 MR. TROLINGER: And just clarifying the time 11 recording, time card versus timekeeping, what we found out is 12 that the financial software we got kind of thrown in is the 13 time card, ability to keep your time to fill in 8 hours and, 14 you know, one hour of comp time taken, that type. And what 15 H.R. really needs is a timekeeping system that -- that punches 16 people in and out on the computer. 17 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm, basically. 18 MR. TROLINGER: And we are looking at doing this as 19 a separate project. And Road and Bridge would benefit from 20 that also. And Mr. Odom did express an interest in that to 21 me, that he'd like to do that, to have that timekeeping -- 22 MS. HYDE: Right. 23 MR. TROLINGER: -- ability. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, I 25 don't -- that may be a little bit of not wanting to 7-20-07 bwk 83 1 participate in the system, but I think Road and Bridge -- I 2 think it's more education, probably, as much as anything with 3 a lot of these things. 4 MS. HYDE: I think they were very far ahead, 5 computerized for a long time, and they were able -- they were 6 very recordkeeping conscious. So, I think you hit the nail on 7 the head, based on the conversations that I've had with them. 8 They were so far ahead that, you know, they -- their system 9 worked. It was good. It was solid. Why change it? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'll tell where you I'm 11 at, John. I -- personally, I would like to hear their reasons 12 for not changing. And it appears to me that they're not real 13 good reasons so far, just what I'm hearing in this room. And 14 if they don't have good reasons, we'll -- I don't know about 15 zeroing out a budget, but I think we'll tell them to change. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't mean the whole budget. 17 I meant I.T. type stuff. I want to fix roads still. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think we have to go 19 that far. I think we simply say you're changing. You know, 20 change them. 21 MR. TROLINGER: And, simply, that's all I'm asking 22 for, is to put this in their computer hardware line item so we 23 can get the project moving. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to go ahead 25 and put it in there, and then wrassle with them later. 7-20-07 bwk 84 1 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which will be next week, 3 probably. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which will probably be next 5 week. We don't know if it's Wednesday or Friday, but -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Want to talk about that now? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Stanton -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We might forget it otherwise. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Stanton has his hand up. 10 MR. STANTON: I was going to ask John or ask the 11 Court if you knew what the status was. We've been trying to 12 get the Juvenile Detention Facility connected to the network 13 also. And I got your -- your deal, and it was about $16,000 14 or something, in that neighborhood, I believe. 15 MR. TROLINGER: 12,800. 16 MR. STANTON: 20,000? More than I thought, 20,800. 17 MR. TROLINGER: 12,000. 18 MR. STANTON: Oh, I'm sorry, 12,000. I think the 19 biggest problem with that is that we don't have internet -- or 20 high enough quality internet service out there, right? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Essentially, and trying to get Time 22 Warner to build their system down the road. You know, the 23 deal that I made a year and a half ago is basically off the 24 table now. They want to charge us the going rate to run their 25 cable another half mile. But I think the -- besides the 7-20-07 bwk 85 1 broadband, the -- you know, just organizing the computers up 2 for you a little bit better now that you're digitizing and 3 scanning and whatnot. I had a concern to make sure we got 4 backups and a good system in place, since you're going to rely 5 on the computers more and more. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, where are we on I.T. budget? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We're there. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I'd like to point out the -- 9 the Sheriff's Office, because that's the largest, Sheriff's 10 Office and jail. I broke them out into two separate line 11 items, just to -- just to make sure that the Sheriff could 12 budget for it properly. I put the line items, but you'll see 13 that the single largest, as expected, cost for capital outlay 14 this year -- and I wanted to do this last year to a smaller 15 degree, but we did not budget -- or I don't know how to say 16 it; the Sheriff did not budget for it, and now we're even 17 deeper in the hole as far as desktop replacements. So, it is 18 a large number, but there's no fluff in this number. It's -- 19 we've got to do this. I'm not asking for twice as much and 20 hoping to get half. I'm asking for exactly what they need. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're talking about 27,000 22 for the Sheriff and 14,000 for the jail? Those are the two? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Those need to be -- those are not 25 incorporated in the Sheriff's budget at this point? 7-20-07 bwk 86 1 MR. TROLINGER: As -- correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Or has he done something on his own? 3 MR. TROLINGER: It's a lower -- a lower number. 4 Substantially, I believe. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are, or his? 6 MR. TROLINGER: His are. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why? 8 MR. TROLINGER: He's not here. I don't want to 9 speak for him, but the -- the way that, you know, he looks -- 10 he's looking at his big budget picture, he wants to -- he's 11 going to present it to come in at a certain number. That's 12 the best I know. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll do for now. 14 MR. TROLINGER: But every person working there, 15 nearly, has to use the computer, and if they've got old and 16 slow computers, then it affects the operation. I'd also like 17 to note the County Attorney, Judge Tinley has adjusted his 18 budget upwards, and that's 475 -- 10-475. He's extended it 19 upward by $3,000. There's a -- there's apparently a 20 requirement for being able to read and copy -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: DVD's. 22 MR. TROLINGER: -- DVD's from the police department. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This ties to the memo we 24 just got from the County Attorney? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. And it's -- it's a difficult 7-20-07 bwk 87 1 situation, but we've got to throw hardware and money at it in 2 order to -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, his goes to 7,365? 4 MR. TROLINGER: I believe so. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Seven thousand what, John? 6 MR. TROLINGER: I received a phone message that it 7 was $3,000 additional. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, 3,000 additional. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 7,365. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 2. 12 MR. TROLINGER: The -- we discussed it earlier. In 13 Human Resources, we're looking at software for various things, 14 but primarily for timekeeping, and in the neighborhood of 15 $50,000 is the cost. Now, is that the up-front cost, Eva? 16 MS. HYDE: That was the eDoc. Not -- what we've got 17 is -- the County Attorney's looking at it right now. There's 18 two different ways that we could pay for it. One is, like, 19 25,000 and "X" amount per year to include the annual 20 maintenance fees, with a reduction on annual maintenance fees 21 if we're able to help them secure additional business, which 22 would wipe out our annuals up to a certain point. But on the 23 flip side, when we're looking at H.R.I.S., 50,000, we should 24 be able to get a total system for less than that. I mean, 25 we're throwing the number out there, though. 7-20-07 bwk 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know what AACOG spent on 2 their system, Bill? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just gave it to Eva. The 4 low bid was -- 5 MS. HYDE: The low -- the low is 89, right? 6 $89,346. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 MS. HYDE: With an annual recurring fee of 11,371. 9 And the high was 157,000 with an annual recurring fee of 10 43,000. So, we wouldn't want to do -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, 89 to 150 was the range. 12 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which tells you 89,000, 14 which had all the components that she wanted -- which she 15 needs. 16 MR. TROLINGER: So, the total H.R. software that's 17 available from our financial vendor right now, and from 18 others, broad range of costs, but for timekeeping, we're most 19 of the way into the project, ready to present it at likely 20 $50,000 total cost. It's just a question right now of 21 first-year costs being 25,000 -- or somewhere between 25,000 22 and 50,000. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it do everything that 24 needs to be done? 25 MS. HYDE: This is straight timekeeping. 7-20-07 bwk 89 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just straight timekeeping? 2 MS. HYDE: Just straight timekeeping, where you can 3 also put in your comp, your vacation hours, stuff like that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May not be cost-effective, 5 based on what components of this one are. 6 MS. HYDE: Right. 7 MR. TROLINGER: But that system that AACOG has, is 8 that timekeeping? Or time -- 9 MS. HYDE: It depends. 10 MR. TROLINGER: -- recording? 11 MS. HYDE: It says that it's time -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: Time cards. 13 MS. HYDE: Says timesheets. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Timesheets. There's a substantial 15 difference. Like, I found out that the Incode software that 16 we have now has timesheets, versus timekeeping. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another substantial 18 difference in how it links into the accounting system. That 19 one links. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions about the 22 individual departments? Any more of the individual 23 departments that we need to talk about from your standpoint, 24 John? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Those are the largest and the ones I 7-20-07 bwk 90 1 wanted to bring your attention to, with -- with one more, 2 Judge, and that's video teleconferencing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. TROLINGER: I've had some discussions with other 5 counties recently, and the price range that we've got plugged 6 in there, the consensus is it's a little bit low. But -- and 7 specifically for courthouse-to-jail teleconferencing. Because 8 there's some recording equipment -- apparently there's a 9 statute thrown in there that says you've got to record certain 10 events, and others cannot be. That may increase the cost. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the purpose of this? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It's the first step in a video 13 teleconferencing project that I want to get initiated. I'm 14 hopeful of plugging it into our District Courts district-wide. 15 I think it'll increase our courts' efficiency significantly 16 once we get to that point, but we're having to get seven or 17 eight counties on board. Initially, we were talking about 18 putting it in just courthouse-to-jail to show its benefit. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yesterday, for example, I don't know 21 how many ferries of prisoners were made and how many jailers 22 and deputies were being utilized to transfer all these jail 23 prisoners back and forth for pretrial hearings. Under the 24 Code of Criminal Procedure, you can use video teleconferencing 25 for arraignments, pretrials, and a lot of other purposes 7-20-07 bwk 91 1 taking place. You got a District Judge, for example, down in 2 Montgomery County that the defendant never sets foot in the 3 courtroom unless there's a jury trial, for jail prisoners. It 4 solves a lot of security issues. It solves a lot of personnel 5 issues with having to move people around. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is -- I think that's -- 7 I thought that's what it was. I just wanted to make sure. 8 This is, like, to set up a -- a Kerr County test case to show, 9 maybe for other counties around here, the 216th and 198th, 10 that it saves a whole bunch of time and money, and time is 11 money. If you can -- basically, so Steve can handle all these 12 pretrial things for Kendall County, Kerr County, whatever, in 13 his office. Or -- okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't have to move 15 prisoners. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, initially, just the 17 courthouse-to-jail thing, the big savings are going to be -- 18 well, number one, you're not waiting on them if they're not 19 there yet. You got a direct hookup. You don't have the 20 personnel involved, the security issues involved, the 21 transport costs involved. You got the people at the jail 22 bringing them into where the -- where the -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Holding area. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- teleconferencing setup is. 25 Ultimately -- ultimately, where I want to be is a system that 7-20-07 bwk 92 1 is hooked up on all the counties that comprise the 198th and 2 216th Districts, and rather than having the Judge two hours on 3 the road one-way, where you got four hours of time down, you 4 can have that Judge hearing cases or -- or disposing of 5 matters, working cases. In addition, it's savings to 6 counties; they're not having to pay for a lot of travel time 7 for Court-appointed attorneys. The -- the rural counties to 8 the north will probably be the biggest beneficiaries of that, 9 because most of the lawyers come out of here. But it -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some definite benefits to it, 12 and we want to get it set up on a small scale here first, 13 let -- let the judges see the benefit of it, see what the 14 efficiencies are, and then we'll go from there. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will the J.P.'s be able to 16 magistrate? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It could be used for magistration, 18 sure, yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: From right here in the courthouse. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- in this package, though, 22 does it include the system to be in the J.P.'s' office? 23 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, it's fixed at the 24 courtroom, between the courtroom and the jail. It's 25 essentially the same as the audio system. It's fixed in one 7-20-07 bwk 93 1 place. And the -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like, if a J.P. was going to 3 magistrate on Saturday morning, that J.P. would go to either 4 Spencer's courtroom or upstairs? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. Instead of going to the jail, 6 yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The initial setup we're thinking 8 about putting up would be -- they have setups that are, quote, 9 portable. Just put it on a cart with a monitor and all of the 10 hookups, where all you need is a power supply and a place to 11 plug in the broadband, and you can work it from there. John's 12 initial thinking is, let's get a fixed one in place so that we 13 -- we know it's operable, and all you have to do is turn on 14 the switch and you're good to go. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's pretty groovy, 16 but what's really groovy is if you could do it district-wide 17 for the district people. What is the holdup? I mean, I can 18 see -- I can see 216th probably going with it, maybe. You 19 know, I could see that happening. But I don't see 198th out 20 there in the -- where there's three or four humans a day go 21 through the county. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Menard's probably the most 23 sparsely -- 24 MS. HENDERSON: Would you have a separate unit for 25 County Court and a separate unit for District Court? 7-20-07 bwk 94 1 MR. TROLINGER: That's what we'll have to decide 2 initially, is who's going to test it. Are we going to test it 3 in the District Court or in the county courtroom? I think the 4 District Courtroom is -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 MS. HENDERSON: Yeah. 7 MR. TROLINGER: -- a much better place. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't -- why isn't Menard 9 County jumping all over this? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the problem really is 11 bandwidth and connectivity of the -- Brady, just for example, 12 has probably got the best internet connection, and it's just 13 barely sufficient on its own to provide video 14 teleconferencing. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they're not -- the 16 county's not willing to spend -- their county's not willing to 17 spend the money to bring it up to the point to where we can 18 communicate? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Well, we're into a project now with 20 the Adult Probation that kind of ties hand-in-hand, because 21 we're going to expand the network that the Adult Probation 22 offices use to communicate. Initially, Gillespie and Bandera 23 County, but -- but the 198th will be involved, and that's to 24 -- to install the new software that Adult Probation's 25 purchasing. We need to network them together a little bit 7-20-07 bwk 95 1 better, and part of that we're going to increase the 2 bandwidth. So, we've got the first step in place as part of 3 that project to provide the backbone for video 4 teleconferencing. After that, it's up to Judge Tinley to do 5 the footwork to -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I got to do the selling, see? And 7 that -- that's part of the problem, Commissioner. You -- 8 initially, I had a very ambitious idea that we're going to 9 start with this seven- or eight-county hookup. And -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then we're going to start 11 with one. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're dealing with seven or 13 eight different counties, and they're having to do funding 14 components, and -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and my general reception from -- 17 from the elected officials in the counties has been pretty 18 good, but I haven't had any of them tell me, "I've definitely 19 got you written in for what my cost is going to be as 20 thus-and-so." So, we're going to try small steps, and then 21 we're going to try and work it up from there, once they're 22 able to tangibly see the benefits this thing will derive. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe just add on one county? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah, you could do that. For 25 example, bring Brady on board, for example, and that's -- 7-20-07 bwk 96 1 that's one of the furthest counties out. That's where most of 2 the road time is spent. When you stop and consider that a lot 3 of times when the judges go to those counties, they'll maybe 4 have, oh, maybe half a dozen arraignments and some pretrial 5 hearings. It doesn't take them generally too long to attend 6 to those, but they've got to do them. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, travel. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If they don't have to drive two hours 9 up, two hours back, then they can dispose of these cases in 45 10 minutes or an hour and a half or whatever it may take. Look 11 how much time that they've saved to be able to -- plus the 12 expense they incur in driving back and forth. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a valuable tool. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like for you to say 15 to us that they would save that time and be able to empty our 16 jail out while they're here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like to hear you say 19 that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That has -- that component is part of 21 it also. You have the ability to -- because you've got more 22 judicial time to be spent on handling cases, and less time on 23 the road, you're able to devote that time to attending to 24 those cases. Some of those people are, obviously, in jail. 25 We'll get there. 7-20-07 bwk 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I see as the 2 bright side of this thing, or the positive side of it. I like 3 the idea a lot, but what I really like about it is the -- the 4 Judge would have the ability to do other things that he 5 doesn't have time to get to now. And one of those is the jail 6 issue, the not being able to get to those people sitting in 7 there for over a year when they need to be in front of a judge 8 and something done with them. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're not going to -- those 10 cases where they're going to have jury trials, you're not 11 going to solve that problem. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- but you -- the more time that 14 you can give back to those judges that they don't have to 15 spend it on the road, you're -- you're giving them an 16 opportunity for a good deal more efficiency and being able to 17 handle the dockets. I think it's a good thing, and it'll 18 evolve. We'll get there. I just don't think I can get the 19 giant step this year, so we're going to take the first step. 20 That's the plan. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the -- is the figure 22 $26,600? Is that what we're talking about. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: John said we probably need to 24 increase that because of -- because of some recordkeeping 25 issues. 7-20-07 bwk 98 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What number, John? 2 MR. TROLINGER: $26,600 will establish the 3 connection between one courtroom and the county jail. The -- 4 the issue that I touched on about recording and compliance, 5 I've just -- I just recently learned that there's a recording 6 requirement that we may or may not have to meet, so I don't 7 have a -- I don't have a solid idea if we need to increase 8 that -- if we need to increase this number. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, aside from that, what 10 is your bottom line, 251 that you're looking at? Are these 11 going to be in I.T. budget or spread throughout everybody 12 else's budgets? 13 MR. TROLINGER: These are spread out through 14 everyone's budgets. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Except for -- except for the video 16 teleconferencing. That's not in anybody's right now, is it? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to put it under County 20 Judge? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's fine. I don't care. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This total expenditure that 24 we're talking about here with I.T. stuff, should that be put 25 on a -- on a payout of some kind over several years, or should 7-20-07 bwk 99 1 we try to eat that whole thing in one year? 2 MR. TROLINGER: I also looked at leasing for 3 desktops, and there's -- there's two ways to look at it. If 4 you want to have a desktop replacement system that goes every 5 three years, and then you own the computers through a lease, 6 maybe you can keep them for a couple more years. That's the 7 way a couple counties do it. But the majority of the 8 counties -- the counties our size, I'm hearing they purchase 9 directly and make a, you know, initial purchase. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about not -- I'm 11 not talking about purchases; I'm talking about maybe -- maybe 12 doing -- maybe borrowing the money, and make it a three-year 13 payout or something like that, to where it doesn't impact this 14 budget all at one time this one year. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Now, the Odyssey, Orion, and Incode 16 are five-year lease-purchase. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did we spend last year if 18 you totaled up all these same type items? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go. That's what I 20 want to know, really. 21 MR. TROLINGER: My numbers are at the bottom summary 22 of total costs. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 438,000? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Over the next five years. But for 25 2008, I requested 578,000. 7-20-07 bwk 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Almost 600,000, FY 2007. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In 2007, that includes the 3 Odyssey payment, those numbers? 4 MR. TROLINGER: It includes everything, all I.T. and 5 including each line item from each -- each entity. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're actually going down 7 this year, total, compared to last year. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Slightly. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With the 251 in there. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I believe the only item not in there 11 is where I discussed the server -- the mainframe server at 12 $16,500. That number is not in that total. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the 26,000 it is not in here 14 either, right? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, I'm just looking at 16 this summary. 251,000 on the bottom, but the reality is that 17 you're not -- for capital improvements, you're only looking at 18 95 plus 24; is that correct? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And maybe the 15 for 21 network. Because software's already built into other places, 22 is it not? And your I.T. budget is separate from this number; 23 is that correct? 24 MR. TROLINGER: The I.T. budget is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It would be separate. 7-20-07 bwk 101 1 MR. TROLINGER: Separate from -- yes. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that takes away from 3 that 251. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the reality is, we're 6 only looking at 95 -- 115,000. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the key is the summary 8 of total costs. That -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, '06-'07, that shows 11 basically we're staying pretty flat. I mean, within 100,000, 12 which on this type is -- 13 MR. TROLINGER: With the video teleconferencing and 14 the contingency, it would -- it would make it higher than 15 average. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'd go up 26 plus 16? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 42,000, so it would be 26 -- 19 MR. TROLINGER: And we have not budgeted for the 20 H.R. -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Software. 23 MR. TROLINGER: H.R. software. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, the bottom line you 25 got down there, $3,077 cost per year, per user, that's "X" how 7-20-07 bwk 102 1 many? Times how many? 2 MR. TROLINGER: I'd like to know that exact number. 3 180, approximately, for the court system. I've got the exact 4 number, but I cannot recall. It's approximately 200. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If we did the video teleconferencing, 7 if we rounded that up to 30, do you think that would cover the 8 recording? 9 MR. TROLINGER: And if we needed additional 10 features, it would make sense to do that. It would be prudent 11 to do that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do it. 14 MS. HYDE: Move it up to what? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 30. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Question is, what budget do we put 17 that in? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John's. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's fine. We can put it in 20 John's. 21 MR. TROLINGER: 10-408-570 is Capital Outlay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the 14,3 capital outlay 23 in your budget? 24 MR. TROLINGER: I broke it down right below, the 25 detail of I.T. capital outlay. You'll see the first item that 7-20-07 bwk 103 1 we've discussed, the Legacy server. Microwave link to the 2 Sheriff's Office; we need more bandwidth, basically. The DSL 3 cable. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's all right, I -- 5 MR. TROLINGER: We discussed that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it; that's fine. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Brad and myself have discussed doing 8 that. We're not certain if we're going to implement that. 9 There's a network switch. Some regular software licenses that 10 are recurring annual licenses. And that's the -- that adds up 11 to the sum of the capital outlay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Got it. Thank you. 14 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will teach you to ask 16 him a question. (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You get the long version of 18 the answer. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He'll actually answer it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on I.T.? Okay, 21 let's go to Districts Courts. Those are going to be under 7. 22 Okay. Other than a few minor adjustments -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- okay, go ahead. I'm 24 sorry. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the major issue here is 7-20-07 bwk 104 1 generally in the personnel area, what we're going to do there. 2 We've talked about creating a policy whereby all 3 County-compensated employees are treated equally in terms of 4 compensation. Unless, of course, there are particular issues 5 dealing with merit or -- or change in job descriptions because 6 of downsizing, redistribution of workloads and things of that 7 nature. The -- the adjustments I've made to the middle 8 portions of the budget in both the 198th and 216th, for the 9 most part, are very, very minor where I've made them, and 10 those have been in very few instances. I think probably the 11 -- other than the personnel side of the issue -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It went down. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. Court-appointed 14 services, that's based upon projected year-end. I don't have 15 any backup to indicate -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, what's the difference 17 in Court-appointed services and Court-appointed attorneys? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Court-appointed services are going to 19 be, like, psychologists. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay, other 21 professionals. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Other type of -- interpreters. 23 MS. HENDERSON: We're having to do lots of 24 competency examinations. It seems like, lately, we've had 25 lots of them, and that's where that's come in. 7-20-07 bwk 105 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you have in the pipeline for 2 next year that -- what we're going to have competency issues? 3 MS. HENDERSON: Well, we really don't know yet. I 4 mean, that's one of those unpredictable -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have any big trials that 7 are going to hit next year that we know of already? 8 MS. HENDERSON: Not really anything. We don't have 9 any capital out there. The only thing -- 10 MS. UECKER: Unless we can find -- we got some we 11 can't find. 12 MS. HENDERSON: We got some we can't find. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why can't you find them? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They're in Mexico. 15 MS. HENDERSON: We've got Seard, you know, but he's 16 still incompetent, so as long as they find him incompetent, 17 we're -- 18 MS. UECKER: Smith. 19 MS. HENDERSON: Smith, we still have him, but 20 they're going to -- he's not going to go to trial. So, 21 really, right now I don't know of anything out there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No big -- nothing worse than 23 usual? 24 MS. HENDERSON: Nothing they know of, unless 25 something happens between now and -- 7-20-07 bwk 106 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For either court? 2 MS. HENDERSON: Either court. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 4 MS. HENDERSON: But, you know, it's just 5 unpredictable. That's just one of those we don't know. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, bottom line is, you know, if 7 they hit, they hit, and we got to bite the bullet, and that's 8 just the way it works. Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, you've increased the 10 Court-appointed attorney, all those types of things, to what 11 the estimated actual is this year, more or less? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, I've got some 13 questions. In Court-appointed attorneys, both criminal and 14 civil, you'll note that -- that I've plugged in what they 15 requested. But still, in looking at the Auditor's projections 16 of what they're going to be for this year, I guess my question 17 is, have they requested enough? Because in -- in every single 18 one of those cases, the Auditor's projection of what will be 19 expended this year is greater than what they're requesting for 20 next year. 21 MS. HENDERSON: That's another one we don't know. I 22 mean, there's no way of knowing. We may have a huge crime, or 23 crime may go down. Just -- 24 MS. UECKER: Organized crime cases. 25 MS. HENDERSON: Just no way of knowing. We did have 7-20-07 bwk 107 1 a lot of organized crime this year in 216th; they were way up 2 there. We're kind of hoping maybe there won't be that much 3 next year, but just no way to know. So, when do I this, I 4 just take a guess. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We call that a swag. 7 MS. HENDERSON: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a scientific term. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, looks like we're 10 close to what we projected for this year, which isn't bad. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, I would rather 12 see us put more in there than -- than come back in January and 13 start amending the darn budget. That just makes me want to 14 throw up when we do that within a month and a half or two 15 months, start amending the thing. I know it's an unknown; we 16 can't see what's going to happen down there, but -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly 216th. 216th 18 is projected to go over what -- what they're asking for next 19 year. On 216th, I'd just as soon, on Court-appointed 20 attorney, go up to 175. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, but I don't 23 think you're going to get three votes at the table. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not going to fight about 25 it. 7-20-07 bwk 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, it's one of those 2 things. If it hits, it hits, and we got to bite the bullet. 3 That's the bottom line. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you go back, 130, 140, 180, 5 150 -- or say 155 this year. So, -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're probably right in the 8 middle of where we've been for the last -- on average, for the 9 last four years at 150. With costs going up, you may want to 10 increase it maybe to 160. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, this is probably the 12 dumb question of the day, but the year-to-date figure, that 13 includes the amendments that we've made and added to? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the year-to-date figure really 15 doesn't have much to do with the budget, but we have -- we 16 have made some amendments since this was printed. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: But, I mean, it doesn't have any 19 effect on the item year-to-date. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the projected year-end, 21 then. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I just -- I did these 23 projections before Jeannie came. What I -- basically, the way 24 I approach that is I see where we are year-to-date, and then I 25 go back a couple years and look to see what -- what the 7-20-07 bwk 109 1 average is per month, and -- and then annualize that to get 2 to an estimated actual. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you remember why we 4 dropped, between '06 and current in the 216th, $75,000 on that 5 line? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Which one? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Budgeted 75,000 less? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was because we -- my 9 recollection is that probably was the Seard case. We had -- 10 had it in there, maybe, and then we took it out because we 11 didn't think it -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that's right. 13 MS. HENDERSON: We did have that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had Seard in there. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the one -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We decided it wasn't going to -- 17 MS. HENDERSON: We knew there was going to be a lot 18 of expense on that. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's good. 20 MS. UECKER: I have a question about the special 21 trials. I see that it's at zero. Now, I've been sending some 22 bills down marked "Special Trials." Where's that -- where are 23 those going? Not a whole lot. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: It goes into the line item wherever 25 it belongs. Like, if it's an attorney, it goes into the 7-20-07 bwk 110 1 attorney line item. 2 MS. UECKER: No, it's not an attorney. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Or if it's a witness fee or -- 4 MS. UECKER: So, where does it go for witness fee? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It goes into -- let me see that. It 6 goes into Court-Appointed Services. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What kind of special trials have you 8 been having up there? 9 MS. UECKER: No, just some witness issues with hotel 10 rooms that have to be paid for witnesses that come in from 11 upstate or California or wherever. Those are eventually 12 reimbursed from the State, except they don't have any money 13 right now, but it still has to be paid out of something. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's where it's being paid 15 out of. 16 MS. UECKER: Okay. Let me write that down. 17 MS. HENDERSON: We decided last year during this 18 that on special trials, we'd leave it zeroed out, if you'll 19 remember, because we didn't know what it was going to be, and 20 if something happened, then we would just have to come up with 21 the money. But nothing so far has happened, except for 22 whatever Linda might have. But, I mean, as far as a large 23 special trial, so far we haven't had anything. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Back three or four years ago, 25 when -- and I forget the number of the bill that was -- I 7-20-07 bwk 111 1 think it was the Legislature before this one. The Legislature 2 allowed for some reimbursements for -- for -- 3 MS. UECKER: That's on capital cases. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: On capital cases. We have to -- we 5 have to file a report with the Office of Court Administration 6 every year, and the way that they require the reporting, you 7 have -- you have to give them a number of Court-appointed 8 attorneys for each court, and you have -- then there's a 9 column that you report any other services that are -- that are 10 provided for indigent defendants. So, I set these -- these 11 account numbers up to be able to agree with that report, so 12 all I have to do when I do the report for the Office of Court 13 Administration is take it directly off the ledger, rather than 14 having to sit down and divide them up. So -- so, if you have 15 a special trial, which we've considered in the past, it 16 consists of several different things. It could be attorneys 17 or witnesses or expert witnesses. So, rather than have it 18 under Special Trials, I've divided those -- those costs into 19 two components, to where it makes it easier for us to file a 20 report. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can eliminate Special 22 Trials as a line item? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: That's exactly what I've tried to 24 do, is -- is eliminate that altogether. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't really see that 7-20-07 bwk 112 1 we -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: You know, we get -- the County gets 3 reimbursed for indigent defense based on what money's 4 available at the State, plus there's a formula that has to do 5 with our base year, and I think it was 2001 is the County's 6 base year. And as long as you expend for indigent defense 7 more than your base year, then they reimburse you based on, 8 first, the amount that's available, and then the difference 9 between your base year and what you spend in the current year. 10 So, I mean, we do get reimbursed. It's not a lot, but it's 11 worth filing the report. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can -- why don't we just 13 delete that line item, if we're not using it? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- that was the -- 15 MS. HARGIS: We just mark it inactive. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10-435-102, entitled County 20 Supplement for 2550, what is that? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 10-43 -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Top line. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. That is the difference between 24 the absolute ceiling under the law that District Judges are 25 entitled to be paid -- or can be paid. 7-20-07 bwk 113 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Less the amount that they are 3 currently receiving under their current pay package. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It used to be titled Salary 5 Supplement. Now it's just called County Supplement. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, because that's the money we put 7 in. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I did characterize that correctly, 12 didn't I? 13 MS. HENDERSON: What's that? I'm sorry. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the county supplement for the 15 judicial salary? 16 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the difference between the 18 ceiling -- the cap on what they can be paid at a maximum and 19 where they are in terms of -- of what their compensation 20 package is now, and that just is the difference between them. 21 MS. HENDERSON: Right. It's divided between the 22 whole district, though. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So our portion is 2550? 25 MS. HENDERSON: Yes. 7-20-07 bwk 114 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any more there? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to D.A.'s. Buster, 4 do you want to run with this one? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, not enough time. 6 What number? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next tab. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 8? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 8. Number 8. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I only have -- I only have 11 one, 216th's. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got this in our box. Is 13 this it? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is the one you couldn't 15 read earlier. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not even going to 17 consider that budget request, myself. 18 MS. HARGIS: I have the 198th. Do you have that 19 one? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? Is this it? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: For some reason, I think I got off 23 without a copy of that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jody, can you make the Judge 7-20-07 bwk 115 1 a copy of that? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 198th? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jody will get it. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure I got a 216th, either. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here, Jody. Here's 216th. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Jody? Thank you. That came in while 8 I was gone, so we're flying blind on this one. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here, use these to get 10 started. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, Judge, on 216th D.A., it 12 shows the '06-'07 budget and the '07-'08 requested budget, and 13 I don't see anywhere where you have made a recommendation. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have not, because these -- these 15 just came in. The 198th came in this morning or late 16 yesterday. The 216th came in -- I was advised by phone when I 17 was up the country. I have not -- no, I've not reviewed 18 these. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we go to your new 20 plan, whatever that might be -- it's obviously between you and 21 Jon Letz. They -- will they will be presenting their request 22 on the same form as I will or anybody else will? 23 MS. HARGIS: It'll be on Incode, so once everybody 24 puts their budget in -- or as they're putting their budgets 25 in, you can go on Incode and see at any time. 7-20-07 bwk 116 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: And we'll have a deadline we'll start, 3 and then we have a deadline to finish. But if you wanted to 4 check if theirs was on there, you could go on your computer 5 and you could -- anybody could. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that a lot. And it's 7 the same format, everybody? 8 MS. HARGIS: The same format. Everybody will have 9 the same format. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of understand this 11 216th one. I mean, I can actually read it. What are -- 12 where's the increase? Secretary Salaries? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Assistant, secretary, 14 investigator. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Investigator. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. HARGIS: Apparently, there is an exception. The 18 198th is not on our accounting system; they're on Kimble's 19 accounting system, but we can ask them -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not going to get it anyway, 21 so it doesn't matter. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they've put -- basically put 23 merit increases in there? Is that what I -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Put something in there. Put 5,500 in 25 the first one and -- 7-20-07 bwk 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some-odd number in the second 2 one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 9,250 in the second one, and three 4 grand in the third one. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, just for clarification 7 here, are these folks County employees? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought so. Well, our 9 portion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What we pay is. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pay 41.2 percent of these 12 salaries. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I see at the 14 bottom. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then we pay 51 percent of 17 the other one. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Really -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What were you going to say? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the only number that goes in 21 our budget is just our percentage. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: So that budget that you -- that you 25 have from both D.A.'s really does not go on our accounting 7-20-07 bwk 118 1 system anywhere, just -- just our share. So, that's the -- if 2 you want to compare one year to the next, you need to look and 3 see what was on our system for each court last year, not what 4 the total budget is. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, our share on 216th is 6 172,000 out of a total of 452? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. We've got the gross figures 9 up at the top to be able to compare the number. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: The reason -- on the 216th, the 12 reason that it's kind of on a different format is that I 13 wanted to be able to show the Court what the District Attorney 14 receives from the state. They receive approximately $35,000 15 from the State for the operation of their office, so what I -- 16 what I did, I wanted to show the reduction of our budget by 17 that 35,000. Then we allocated the difference between the 18 counties, and sometimes they may have a fund balance also, 19 and -- and I think it's appropriate to use that fund balance 20 when they have one, just to -- just to not budget for a fund 21 balance, but to fund the budget. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy, the problem I'm having with 23 what's presented here with 216th, for example, I don't have 24 the benefit of your year-to-date expenditures. I don't have 25 the benefit of projected -- for example, there's a significant 7-20-07 bwk 119 1 increase in reimbursed travel. I don't know what they're 2 doing there. All I've got is -- is what they were budgeted 3 last year, what they've budgeted this year. It may be that 4 they're way over budget for this current year, and maybe 5 that's appropriate. On the other hand, it may not be 6 appropriate, so it's really hard for me to tell what their 7 needs are. All I see is what was budgeted and -- and what the 8 requests are, and you've got the estimated in here, but I 9 don't -- that doesn't help me. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I look at, 11 though -- I mean, to me, it doesn't make sense. The request 12 doesn't make sense. The estimated actual is 50,000 less than 13 their current budget, and yet they're asking for 25,000 more 14 than their current budget, so they're way under budget. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: They budgeted for last year for -- 16 for a new attorney and a full-time investigator. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: And those people didn't come on 19 board October 1. They took a long -- you know, took a while 20 for them to find, you know, the right person for -- for those 21 positions. So, that's part of the explanation. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on other -- I mean, I can 23 see that on the top ones, because -- I mean, the -- obviously, 24 they've had -- there's an increase in their salaries, which I 25 have a question on. But on books, publications -- or say 7-20-07 bwk 120 1 telephone. The budget's 8,000. Estimated actual is 4,200, 2 yet they're asking for 8,500. Well, I mean, -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Something's wrong. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that doesn't make sense. If 5 their estimated actual is 4,200, then maybe go to 4,500, but 6 you don't go to 8,500. It looks to me like they just 7 increased their line item for the sake of increasing line 8 items, and they're not even spending the money now. So, to 9 me -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I mean, they're not going to 11 have a fund balance. I mean, they're going to -- at the end 12 of this year, I mean '06-'07. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but by the numbers that 14 are presented, they're not spending their budget. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not even close. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're going to have almost 17 50,000 -- over 50. Maybe about -- 26 -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 25 and 51. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: According to this, they're going 20 to have a fund balance of about $40,000. If the estimated 21 actual is accurate -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about 60,000? 60,000. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $60,000 fund balance. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten months in the budget. 7-20-07 bwk 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is estimated actual. This 2 is total of their estimate, so it's fairly close. It's -- I 3 mean, I understand that they're -- the reason that there's 4 that difference is because they're hiring some of their new 5 employees after the first of the year, but still, they've got 6 to have a fund balance. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In that same connection, the 8 numbers for health insurance and retirement, are those 9 predicated on the additional employees? Not necessarily what 10 we know to be the anticipated increase in premium cost? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think they adjusted for 12 the -- for an anticipated increase. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How would they know that? 14 We don't know. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I know it. I've told you. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, they got two more 17 employees, health insurance -- okay, I see. Well, they're 18 going from 22 to 44. They're doubling. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right? Estimated actual 21 health insurance, 22,8 -- 23,000. They're asking for 44. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is a problem when they 23 don't use the same form. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bingo. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Try again? 7-20-07 bwk 122 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't wait till we get to 2 the next one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to let you lead us 4 through that one. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I can't. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that just -- 7 Judge, you need to send these back and say, "Put them in the 8 county form so we can understand what you're asking for, 9 because they don't make sense to us." 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't. Some of them do 11 not make sense. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you're going to add 13 employees, you need to write it down, what you're adding. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: They've already added employees. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those were added by the 16 Court last year. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they were here last year. 18 They wanted to add employees; they were here in force. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When they wanted more. But I do 21 also have a question on their -- I look at this as that 22 they're -- either they have calculated their own crystal ball 23 cost-of-living that we're going to give, or they've giving 24 merit increases, one or the other, and I don't see what that 25 is. If they're asking for merit increases, they need to 7-20-07 bwk 123 1 specifically ask for merit increases like other departments. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The whole -- all of those 3 numbers, you take a look at estimated actual against what 4 they're asking for in '07-'08, they're kind of goofy. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with you, makes no 6 sense. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll report to the District 9 Attorney's Office that it doesn't make sense and it's kind of 10 goofy, and ask them to resubmit. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Got those two terms? 13 MS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah. 14 MS. HYDE: Oh, lord. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now 198th? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Commissioner Baldwin, would 17 you lead us through 198th? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I can read the 19 heading, and then I lose it there. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody's got to lead this 21 discussion. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The good news is -- the good news is 23 that there's significant decreases in a lot of these areas. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to point out one 25 thing that I figured out about this thing, is that this column 7-20-07 bwk 124 1 is expenditures and this is requests, budget. So, this column 2 that's -- this expenditure column is not '06-'07 budget; it's 3 just what they -- that's the best I can do, Judge, I'm sorry. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Shouldn't have brought it up. 6 But you see the decreases; I don't think those are real 7 numbers you're dealing with. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's that last number down 10 there, expenditures less budgeted requests? It takes the 433 11 down to 251? Hello. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Don't look this direction. We 13 didn't do it. (Laughter.) That was -- that's a Kimble County 14 product you're looking at. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Send it back to Kimble 16 County. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You're exactly right. It appears 18 like there's some significant decreases, but when you get down 19 to the bottom, -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it shows '06-'07 budget, 112,3. 22 '07-'08, 128,5, a decrease of over 14 percent. Just looking 23 at our portion. But, I mean -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Increase. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, an increase. 7-20-07 bwk 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, that's a caseload pro rata. I'd 2 be interested to know how they come up with that one, too. 3 Because, you see, the increase is not pro rata across the 4 board. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ours is the highest. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: As a matter of fact, you're right. I 7 don't know how they calculate the caseload, whether they use 8 O.C.A. numbers. I don't know how they get there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to come back 10 to that one. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tell them to resubmit on our 12 form so we can follow what they're doing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both of them. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okey-dokey. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll provide the form if 17 they'll fill it out. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the Judge probably did 19 provide the form already once. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, indeed. Number one. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What tab are you? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: One. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might know it; put yourself 25 up in the front. 7-20-07 bwk 126 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. One adjustment that may be 2 made is under 420. Reduce that down to 200. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 420? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since we eliminated cell phone. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, the cell phone issue? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Cell phone issue, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Down to 200? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to make an 10 adjustment on out-of-county mileage? 'Cause you overspent 11 that one big time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, with the Legislature not being 13 in session, I -- yeah, obviously, it went up, but to what it's 14 projected to be. And it's going to continue to get worse, but 15 I think it's going to be within there this time. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're okay on it? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks pretty much the same. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I added my portion of some new 20 equipment in there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions on that one? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Go to County Court budget. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 2? 7-20-07 bwk 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I've reduced the mental health 2 because of the case load, pulled that down some. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why is that, Judge? What's 4 happening there? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's -- that's the 6 compensation that's paid to the J.P.'s that hear the probable 7 cause hearings, and they're paid on a per-case basis, and so 8 I've brought that down. It's probably a little -- a little 9 higher than what it actually will be if the current trends 10 continue, but I don't know. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that kind of -- my 12 question is, is it coming downward? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The number of hearings that we're 14 holding -- and that also comes into line with 426. See, that 15 one's coming down too. Both of those are coming down because 16 of the number of cases being held. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But that relates -- both of those 19 items relate to the mental health cases. Court-appointed 20 attorneys, dropped it down a little bit. I think I'm okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine with me. You're going in 22 the right direction, down. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, can't argue with that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not quibbling that, but I 25 have another question with respect to the -- 7-20-07 bwk 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have we addressed the issues 3 that the Grimes boys and the other funeral directors were 4 bringing to our attention? Is that addressed here? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's in -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nondepartmental. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Nondepartmental, should be. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the way to address it, 10 they were only telling half the story. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they're not getting any more 13 money. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I'm cool with that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we budgeted constant there. 16 Actually, I reduced the pauper burial a little bit. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pauper death dropping off? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been making the folks -- the 19 families that have been requesting those pauper dispositions, 20 I've been making the family members submit sworn financial 21 statements. And when you impose that requirement, sometimes 22 they -- they abandon their request. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess so. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Or they'll have two or three family 25 members submit, but there's two or three that don't, and I 7-20-07 bwk 129 1 tell them until I get the info on the remaining family 2 members, they've got an obligation to take care of their own, 3 in my way of thinking. And -- but I make them jump through 4 the hoops. And if -- you know, if it's -- if they qualify, 5 they qualify. If they -- so we've cut those down pretty good. 6 Anything else on those two? What about -- what about next 7 week? Wednesday or Friday? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wednesday's good. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We had it down for the 25th. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like Friday better, but 11 I'm okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't matter to me. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any difference. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the 25th. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's that, Wednesday? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Wednesday? Okey-doke, we'll leave it 17 at Wednesday. We'll just have to -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 9:00. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- get it posted today. We don't 20 want to miss that boat again. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's also the day that the 22 Dallas Cowboys open camp in San Antonio. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to be present 7-20-07 bwk 130 1 for that? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Might be. I'm wanting to. I 3 don't know where I'd buy a ticket. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You going to buy a ticket? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Are you kidding me? 6 You drive to the city limits of San Antonio, you sit there to 7 buy tickets -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or get a ticket. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To breathe air. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aren't you going? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to San Antone. 12 Just pulling your leg. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to watch it on TV? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am going later on to see 15 them. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got -- we've got a pretty 17 wide-open posting for today. Is there anything else anybody 18 wants to throw out on the table under the posting? We'll -- 19 we'll do another wide-open posting for Wednesday, then. We'll 20 stand adjourned. 21 (Budget Workshop was adjourned at 12:15 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 7-20-07 bwk 131 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 3rd day of 9 August, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-20-07 bwk