1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, July 23, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 23, 2007 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 6 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 11 4 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding extension of Kerr County teen curfew 5 for another year 13 6 1.6 Consider/discuss Kerr County Rabies and Animal Control Order adopted by Commissioners Court 7 August 11, 1997, and its intent and application to owners of unleashed animals in Flat Rock Lake Park 15 8 1.9 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 109, 9 110, 118, 119, Y.O. Ranchlands, Precinct 4 41 10 1.11 Public Hearing for road changes in various locations 42 11 1.13 Public Hearing for revision of plat for Lots 2-11 of Privilege Creek Ranches (a/k/a Boerne Falls Ranch) 12 to include road name change from Privilege Lane to Turkey Knob, Precinct 3 43 13 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 14 revision of plat for Lots 109, 110, 118, 119, Y.O. Ranchlands, Precinct 4 44 15 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 16 regulatory road changes 45 17 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for final revision of plat for Lots 2-11 of Privilege 18 Creek Ranches, (a/k/a Boerne Falls Ranch) to include road name change from Privilege Lane to Turkey Knob 46 19 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 authorize GrantWorks to file application with Office of Rural Community Affairs for 2007 Texas 21 Community Development Block Grant under the Colonia Planning Fund in the amount of $30,000, for a study 22 of Center Point, Westwood Park, and Hill River Country Estates 49 23 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 24 regarding agreement to commit to a one-year contract with Direct TV for access to viewing 25 of satellite TV for juvenile detention facility 51 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) July 23, 2007 2 PAGE 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 3 regarding Juvenile Detention revenue for current budget year 55 4 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 5 approving contracts for nursing services between C. Burkett and W. Brown with Kerr County Juvenile 6 Detention Center 62 7 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on salary/status adjustment for OSSF Inspector, 8 since he has acquired training, passed examination, and received Designated Representative license 9 effective 6/27/07 65 10 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to change private road name from Louise Ehler to 11 Barbary Way, Precinct 3 68 12 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept a new Letter of Credit for Vistas Escondidas de 13 Cypress Springs Estates, Precinct 4 69 14 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a policy for adding items to Kerr County website 15 to inform employees of non-official information 70 16 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2005/2006 Management Discussion and 17 Analysis as part of outside independent audit 76 18 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding 2006/2007 outside independent auditor 19 and authorize RFP or RFQ as required 79 20 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt new policy and fee schedule for the Kerr County 21 Exhibition Center & rescind all previous orders pertaining to such 105 22 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 23 regarding conveyance of Mountain Home TxDOT property to Mountain Home Fire Department with 24 reverter, if property ceases to be used for Fire Department purposes, and long-term lease back by 25 Kerr County of such property by Kerr County for Road and Bridge or other purposes 121 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) July 23, 2007 2 PAGE 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 establish a fund to provide condolences or get-well remembrances for Kerr County employees and their 4 immediate family members 121 5 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to declare 40 horse stalls surplus & set date to 6 put them up for auction 123 7 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on proposal from Carolina Biological Supply Company 8 to purchase from Kerr County remains of euthanized animals for scientific, research, educational and/ 9 or other similar purposes 126 10 4.1 Pay Bills 130 4.2 Budget Amendments 133 11 4.3 Late Bills 148 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 149 12 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 13 Assignments 149 14 --- Adjourned 154 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, July 23, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 7 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this time and 9 date, July the 23rd, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 10 Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 12 join me in prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance? 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 15 any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 16 heard on any item that is not an agenda item, we'd be happy to 17 hear what you have to say on your mind. Now, if you have -- 18 if you have something to say or you want input on a listed 19 agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation form 20 at the back of the room. It's not absolutely essential that 21 you do that, but it does help me to make sure that when we get 22 to that item, that I don't miss you. However, if we do have a 23 -- you do want to participate in a listed agenda item, if 24 you've not filled out a participation form, when we get to 25 that item, you get my attention in some way, shape, form, or 7-23-07 6 1 fashion, and I'll see that you have the opportunity to be 2 heard. But right now, if there's any member of the public or 3 the audience that wishes to be heard on any items that are not 4 listed on the agenda, feel free to come forward at this time. 5 Mr. Warren, if you'll give us your name and address, please, 6 sir? Tell us what's on your mind. 7 MR. WARREN: My name is -- excuse me. My name is 8 R.E. Warren, and I'm at P.O. Box 690, Ingram, Texas. I live 9 on Johnson Creek at Bluff Trails Ranch, and I appreciate the 10 Commissioners allowing us to have time to present the items 11 that we have today. On July the 17th, a group of landowners 12 of Johnson Creek met to see if we couldn't arrive at something 13 to do on the expeditious repair of floodplain damage -- of 14 flood damage. We'd gotten so many rumors, we didn't know 15 which end was up. Let me give you some of these rumors. The 16 first one was the landowner had to get an inspector out there 17 to look at the land, say, "Yes, you need a permit," file for a 18 permit, pay your fee, and that the -- that the permit time 19 would take roughly 45 days. Well, when you got -- when you 20 got land at risk and you got low-water bridges and roads at 21 risk, 45 days is a century. The next one we heard was that 22 the landowner and the contractor himself had to file for a 23 permit to get the work done. The next one we heard was that 24 the permit must be obtained for work in the creek or out of 25 the creek before you could get anything done. The next one we 7-23-07 7 1 heard is the permit is for each event, one flood. Well, we've 2 had roughly four floods since May, at least on my place we 3 have. And then we -- getting towards the last, we had a 4 permit lasted one year. Subsequent to that, permit lasts 5 three years. So, you can imagine the confusion that reigned 6 in that group of landowners, most of which are here today to 7 help present our program. 8 We met with Mr. Oehler -- Commissioner Oehler on 9 July the 18th, explained our problem to him, presented him 10 with Texas Park and Wildlife Rule 86.007, which says you can 11 do the work. Mr. Oehler immediately called Bob Sweeney with 12 Texas Park and Wildlife and explained the landowners' problem. 13 Mr. Sweeney agreed with our interpretation that we could 14 expeditiously move in and do repair work. And the last caveat 15 to his talk with -- with Bruce was, you may need a permit if 16 you do work in the creek. And I might add right now that none 17 of this is new work. We're not doing any new construction. 18 All we're doing is -- is repairing flood erosion and damage. 19 And we agree with Texas Park and Wildlife, and none of us want 20 to break any rules or any laws that pertain to the creek, the 21 use of it or anything like that. We're trying to get to the 22 bottom of what we can do and can't do. 23 Mr. Oehler has also set up with Parks and Wildlife a 24 workshop, and as I understand it, I was just told that it's to 25 be held on the 26th at Mountain Home Fire Department at 7-23-07 8 1 between 2:00 and 3 o'clock. And that just came in. I don't 2 know whether you were aware of that or not. So, in this 3 workshop, Commissioner Oehler and -- and/or whom, and Bob 4 Sweeney with the Texas Park and Wildlife, and there's three of 5 us that are representing the Johnson Creek landowners people, 6 John Whitley and Bernard Syfan -- excuse me, there you are -- 7 to see if we can participate, add to, give some of our 8 problems. And, again, I want to thank the Commissioners for 9 allowing us to present our program -- our problems, and hope 10 within this workshop we can get our -- our interpretation and 11 rules defined and what we can do and what we can't do down 12 pat. Thank you. And I thank the landowners for of Johnson 13 Creek for coming. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Warren. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could I make one comment? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I did set up the meeting with 18 Mr. Sweeney on the 26th; it will just be he and I touring the 19 creek properties, and after that time, within 10 days or so, 20 he will tell me when I can set up a public meeting for all the 21 landowners on Johnson Creek and on the Guadalupe River that 22 would like to attend. I do not know that date yet, but he has 23 agreed to come back and hold a workshop with everybody to 24 explain, you know, what you have to do and what you can't do 25 and what you can do. But that's all I can really say at this 7-23-07 9 1 point. But I am meeting with him on Thursday, the 26th, to 2 take him on a short tour so he can see what the area looks 3 like. Some of it's been repaired, some of it has not. So 4 that he'll get a better understanding of the problems out 5 after a flood. 6 MR. WARREN: Thank you, Bruce. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of the 8 public or the audience that wishes to be heard on any matter 9 that is not a listed agenda item? Yes, ma'am? Ms. Woods, if 10 you'll give us your name and address, please? 11 MS. WOODS: Thank you. I'm Tina Woods, Executive 12 Director at the Dietert Senior Center, and my address is 205 13 Loma Vista here in Kerrville. I'm just here to say thank you 14 this morning to the Court for all of the support that you have 15 given to our center in this past year, and to give you just a 16 quick update on where we are and what's happening with the new 17 building. We moved in in March. We had our official 18 dedication on April 4th, and thanks to the support of this 19 Court and the community and several foundations, we are 20 operating our new center debt-free. We do not have a 21 mortgage. We were able to furnish it and raise enough money 22 to move into our place. We've only been in there four months. 23 It's wonderful to be there. We have more people coming in 24 every single day. I think for the first time, they're finally 25 seeing the center. We were a little tucked away over on 7-23-07 10 1 Jefferson Street, and now it's kind of hard to miss us when 2 you drive down Guadalupe. 3 One of the things that we're now getting a handle on 4 is what our operating expenses are going to be. It looks like 5 they're going to be about 45 percent more than when we were in 6 the old space, which would make sense, 'cause we've about 7 doubled our size. We still do operate all of our programs, 8 and we have added as many opportunities as we can to raise 9 additional revenue with our new building. We have three 10 tenants who are on our second floor; the Senior Games, Hill 11 Country State Bank's Wealth Management Group, and Home Health 12 Services. We've also opened a restaurant as part of our 13 nutrition program. Basically, in the morning, when we finish 14 with our Meals on Wheels and our senior lunch service, we have 15 a commercial kitchen that sits empty, so we have now opened a 16 restaurant on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, and we do 17 Sunday brunch there. It's open to the public. So, we are 18 also renting out space for special events, private meetings, 19 you name it. So, we really do appreciate the support of the 20 County for our programs. 21 Obviously, you know that food costs are rising. You 22 feed three meals a day in the jail. When you get to your 23 budget deliberations this year, we hope you will continue to 24 fund the center. Your money goes to buy food for our senior 25 nutrition programs. We did about 70,000 meals last year. We 7-23-07 11 1 expect to increase that significantly this year. So, I know 2 you have a full agenda, but I just wanted the opportunity to 3 thank you so very much for the support of our elderly in this 4 community. We really rely on you to assist us, and we hope 5 that you will continue to do so. Thank you so much. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Woods. We appreciate 7 your being here. Is there anyone else, any other member of 8 the audience or the public that wishes to be heard on any 9 matter that's not a listed agenda item? Seeing no one else 10 coming forward, we'll move on with our agenda. Commissioner 11 Williams? What do you have for us this morning? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing, Judge. We've got a 13 full agenda. I'll yield. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another round of rain; we had 16 anywhere from 4 and a half to 5 inches in the eastern part of 17 the precinct, but it came relatively slow, and didn't have 18 much damage. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have a whole lot to 21 report, other than the river's coming down. The people were 22 here this morning. Lots of damage needs to be repaired. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. I do have 25 one item, and that is I wanted to talk for a moment about 7-23-07 12 1 J.P. 1, Vance Elliott's resignation and leaving the employment 2 of Kerr County. I have not received, and I don't think any of 3 us have received the actual resignation, but the plan is -- is 4 that sometime at the end -- near the end of August will be his 5 last day, and because of that, I wanted to -- hopefully the 6 press will pick up and talk about this a little bit; that we 7 wanted to open it up for anyone interested in being a 8 candidate for Justice of the Peace in Precinct 1 to turn in a 9 resume to either myself or the Human Resources office. We 10 have a file going down there with several names already in the 11 pot. So, if anybody in the -- that lives in Precinct 1 would 12 like to be Justice of the Peace, we would ask you to put 13 together a resume and turn it in to either myself or 14 Ms. Hyde -- Ms. Hyde's office. Along with that, with Judge 15 Elliott leaving Kerr County, we want to have a -- we're 16 planning a going-away party for him in this courtroom on 17 August the 22nd. That would be Wednesday, August 22, from 18 10 a.m. to noon. It'll just be coffee, cake, come and go type 19 thing, just to come by and show your appreciation to Judge 20 Elliott and his service to the -- to our great community. 21 Judge, that's all I have to say. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate that. 23 I want to thank Commissioner Oehler for his efforts on 24 immediately grabbing the bull by the horns, so to speak, on 25 this Johnson Creek issue and seeing what he can do to get some 7-23-07 13 1 guidance for those landowners out there. There are a myriad 2 of regulations and rules and statutes that govern what you can 3 do in state stream beds, and sometimes it gets a little 4 confusing, and I appreciate his efforts to get the right kind 5 of guidance for those folks, because there was quite an 6 amazing amount of damage out there as a result of these recent 7 heavy rains and flooding that occurred out there. So, I 8 appreciate his efforts. Let's move on with our agenda. In 9 order to accommodate most of the folks here today, I'm going 10 to start getting a little bit out of order. I'm going to 11 begin with Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 12 action regarding extension of the Kerr County teen curfew for 13 another year. Chief Deputy Barton? Thank you, sir. 14 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir. Sheriff Hierholzer asked me 15 to speak on behalf of him and request the Court to go ahead 16 and continue the curfew as we've had it now for a number of 17 years. We don't necessarily do a whole lot of citations for 18 the violation, but one of the best tools it gives us is a good 19 reason to approach kids when they're in areas after hours to 20 find out what they're up to, and so we use it for a tool along 21 those lines more than we do trying to punish them because of 22 that. Anyway, he would request that the Court continue the 23 curfew as -- as they have in the past. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Clay, I have one question. 25 Under the General Provisions, Section 1, -- 7-23-07 14 1 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- you have 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. 3 And then down in the curfew hours, under Section 2, is 12:01 4 to 6 a.m. Is there -- are those two different functions, or 5 is this a typo? Or -- 6 MR. BARTON: I believe in Section 1, Commissioner, 7 that was just -- the statistics that were put forth in that 8 were between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., is the way I understand that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. But the actual curfew 10 is 12:01? 11 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The city does not have a curfew; 14 is that correct? 15 MR. BARTON: No, sir. To my knowledge at this time, 16 they do not. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Never have, I don't believe. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second as indicated. Any 21 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 7-23-07 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 2 to Item 6; consider/discuss Kerr County Rabies and Animal 3 Control order adopted by Commissioners Court August 11, 1997, 4 and its intent and application to owners of unleashed animals 5 in Flat Rock Lake Park. Commissioner Williams. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. As a 7 result of a discussion we've had in the past, I placed this 8 back on the agenda for the Court to discuss. I didn't style 9 the agenda item as an action item, but I wanted the Court to 10 clearly understand that in place there is a Kerr County Rabies 11 and Animal Control order that deals with the topic of 12 restraint. On Friday, while we were in budget meetings, 13 somebody arrived in Commissioners Court offices and dropped in 14 my box a packet that looked like this, and I assume it was 15 dropped in everybody else's box at the same time. And what I 16 find kind of curious about this is that the person -- I'm not 17 certain that the person who delivered it is the person who 18 wrote it, but if the person who wrote this cover letter is in 19 the audience, would you please stand up and identify yourself? 20 AUDIENCE: The lady who wrote that document is not 21 present. Her letter is just behind that document. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. But what I find 23 interesting is that there are some aspersions cast in this, 24 and some tests of one's veracity, and the writer of this 25 letter failed to sign the letter identifying who was making 7-23-07 16 1 these innuendoes and so forth. Be that as it may, before we 2 start, since the question of the complaint -- the legitimacy 3 of the complaint is registered in this letter as being 4 suspect, I'd like, Judge, to go to your call list there and 5 invite Ms. Linda Corder -- Mrs. Corder to come to the podium 6 and tell us what happened on the day in question which 7 prompted me to put this topic on the agenda to begin with. 8 Ms. Corder? 9 MS. CORDER: Hi. Thank you for letting me speak. I 10 appreciate the time. On May 31st of this year, I took my dog 11 for a walk at the park. We arrived around 7 p.m. and looked 12 around to see who was there, and there were only three young 13 boys playing in the water and a couple fishing. No dogs that 14 we could see were loose, and we proceeded on our walk. And 15 the reason we looked for loose dogs, in the past -- and I have 16 walked at this park numerous occasions, you know, four to five 17 times a week, different times of the day. There are always 18 dogs that are loose, and not always being watched by their 19 owners. There's a lot of dogs that are under control by their 20 owners. And on two past occasions, two dogs came running up 21 to my dog, and one tried to attack, and the owners got to him 22 before it could happen. So, every other time since then, we 23 look to see if there's loose dogs. There were no loose dogs 24 that we could see this particular evening. And I took my dog 25 on his leash around the park. 7-23-07 17 1 Halfway around the park, this dog came out of 2 nowhere who was -- who was with these three boys, and came 3 growling and barking at us. And I didn't know who he was 4 going to come after, me or my dog, but -- well, he went after 5 my dog. I have a standard longhair dachshund who weighs 6 32 pounds. The dog that attacked him was the size of a German 7 shepherd. It was a mixed breed, but that's the size of the 8 dog. He kept flipping my dog on his back and kept trying to 9 bite at his -- at his stomach, which is normal in a dog 10 attack. And it took me several seconds to get to a point 11 where I could get my foot in there and kick this dog in the 12 snout, and I kicked him hard enough to stun him so that I 13 could pick my dog up and take him to safety. I had to take 14 him to the vet. He had several puncture wounds on his side. 15 Thank God, none in his stomach, and he was bruised from head 16 to toe. His back was bruised badly. It was a really hard 17 thing for me to have to deal with with my dog. 18 And I also want to say, I am not the cause of this 19 -- of us meeting here today, or the problem. This is a 20 problem that has happened before. I have talked to other 21 people that have had this same problem at this park. I know 22 there's a morning group that walks that are very much in 23 control of their dogs and take very good care of their dogs, 24 but I don't go in the morning 'cause I'm at work. I go in the 25 late afternoons and the early evenings. I enjoy this park 7-23-07 18 1 because I feel safe there. It's very comfortable there, and 2 there's a nice breeze in the summertime. And it's a -- you 3 know, when you have a dog low to the ground, you want to take 4 him to a place where it's comfortable for him as well. When I 5 spoke to the police to find out what I could do to protect my 6 dog and myself, I was told pepper spray, and areas to stay out 7 of if I wanted to walk my dog by myself. So, I'm limited as 8 to where I can go in this town. There are leash laws in place 9 for a reason, and you can't have them for some and not for the 10 others. If you want to designate this park a dog park, then 11 it needs to have a fence around it and be labeled a dog park. 12 If you want this to be open to the public, then the dogs need 13 to be restrained, because someday a child may be bitten, and 14 then what are we going to do? So, maybe we can find some land 15 to put a fence around to be called a dog park, or make Flat 16 Rock Lake the dog park and find another area to be a public 17 park. But something needs to be done. And, again, I thank 18 you for your time. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Ms. Corder. I 20 gave the Court a copy of the current Rabies and Animal Control 21 order. I gave you a supplement this morning because in my 22 packet a couple of the pages were missing. And I direct your 23 attention specifically to Section 4, which deals with 24 restraint, impoundment, and disposition of stray dogs and 25 cats. And it talks about that this is the order the Court 7-23-07 19 1 adopted back in, I believe, 1997. And that was -- that was an 2 amended order which amended the previous order, which was 3 adopted 10 years previously. All I want to do this morning, 4 while I recognize there are a lot of folks here in support, 5 and I'm sure the Judge will give anybody who wishes an 6 opportunity to speak, there are a lot of letters in this 7 packet of support. I want to make certain that you understand 8 that Ms. Corder's complaint is not the only complaint that I 9 personally have received. I've received others. I've been 10 notified of persons who have been knocked down, and one had to 11 go to the hospital with a broken ankle. I've been notified of 12 others who have been attacked. I've been notified of others 13 who had to fend off animals with pepper spray. I've been 14 notified by others who've talked about animals running -- 15 running free and doing all sorts of things on their car, 16 lifting their legs and doing what dogs typically do on 17 automobile tires and so forth, while people were there. So, 18 it's not a new issue; it's not a single issue, and 19 nonetheless, it needs to be talked about. 20 My purpose in bringing it this morning was because 21 Mr. Palmer and others of you are very interested in this in 22 terms of what we do with that park, and the Court's going to 23 have to come to a decision as to what we do with that park. 24 Right now it's a public park, and right now, as we speak this 25 morning, the animal control -- Rabies and Animal Control order 7-23-07 20 1 has a restraint provision in it. If the Court wishes to take 2 that out, then the Court will do so. Anybody that wants to 3 speak as far as -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. I support 5 the current order, and every instance that you've talked about 6 is, by our order, a public nuisance. The problem seems to be 7 in enforcement of our court order, not our court order. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or irresponsible dog owners. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but that's -- they're -- 12 that's creating a public nuisance, by the definition in here. 13 I mean, it's very clear. And it's not a leash law, you know. 14 I'll -- just for the benefit of the public, there's a -- for 15 the purposes of this section, "restraint" shall mean that the 16 dog or cat is physically restrained by leash, fence, pen, or 17 other device, or 2, physically located on the property of the 18 owner or custodian or supervised by and under the direct 19 control of the owner or custodian. So, I mean, the way I'm 20 reading that, I mean, if you can -- the people that do walk 21 with, you know, dogs similar to mine that are -- you know, and 22 Commissioner Oehler, I think we -- both our dogs are labs, and 23 under pretty much direct control of us all the time, but not 24 on a leash. And I think that's in compliance with the law -- 25 or our ordinance. And, clearly, anytime you have a dog that's 7-23-07 21 1 running loose and attacks another dog, that dog is a public 2 nuisance by definition of our order. You know, so I don't 3 think the order needs to be changed. I think maybe the 4 enforcement mechanism needs to be improved, but that gets into 5 an issue with Janie's department primarily, I guess, about 6 having the staff to enforce it. That's just kind of how I see 7 it. I don't think the law -- I mean, I don't -- changing the 8 law, making it stricter, isn't going to solve the problem. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's how we enforce it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer, did you wish to be heard 12 on this item? You filed a participation form. 13 MR. PALMER: Yes, sir. My name is Bob Palmer; I 14 live at 410 Josephine, and I'm one of those dog owners who 15 walks their dog in the morning, and we're aware of this -- the 16 problem. And I support, and I'm sure the others here who have 17 dogs also support this Rabies and Animal Control order. We 18 feel like that if there are stray dogs that are attacking 19 other dogs in the park, that these dogs should be removed from 20 the park, or in some cases, taken in by Animal Control, so 21 there's no conflict here with -- with this order and the group 22 of people who walk in the morning. What I would like to do, 23 and what one or two others have done, is actually propose a 24 leash law for -- this is -- the County Attorney's office told 25 me there was no leash law in the county, so I just made up a 7-23-07 22 1 copy of a simple leash law that would be in effect for -- for 2 Flat Rock Park, and it's very simple. But it, I think, needs 3 to be put in effect. And some others in the group -- Bill, 4 one of the other persons, also has sent y'all a letter. But 5 the proposal is that all dogs must be kept on a leash or under 6 verbal control in Flat Rock Park. And that's just a proposal 7 for y'all's consideration. 8 Now, regarding the Rabies and Animal Control order, 9 where it says that animals should be physically restrained by 10 leash, fence, pen, or other device, we agree with this if the 11 word "device" could also mean verbal control, so that we would 12 be following this order. Also, this refers to stray dogs in 13 the park, this animal control order, and we do not consider 14 our dogs stray dogs, because they are under our verbal control 15 or they are on a leash. So, we would like to support this 16 order, and also a leash law in the dog park, and we would like 17 to work with the County in helping, if we could, to, if not 18 enforce, support it by letting the police or Animal Control 19 know if there is a stray dog in the park. Part of the problem 20 is there are dogs coming in off the street from people in the 21 area and causing problems, and we've had problems with those 22 dogs, too. So, one of the things that we could also do, and 23 some of our people do, we pick up litter in the park. We've 24 got members who help keep this park cleaner, and not only in 25 the park, but in the water. And we also -- as has been stated 7-23-07 23 1 before, the more we're there, the more -- the safer the park 2 is. So, I just wanted to go on record as saying that we 3 support this -- or I support it. Maybe I'm not talking for 4 everybody, but we support this control order, and any way we 5 can work together, we would like to do so. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While you make reference to 7 Kerr County Rabies and Animal Control -- both of us have in 8 this discussion thus far -- there is another element of law 9 that exists, and that's Texas statute, the Texas Health and 10 Safety Code, Chapter 822.031, which deals with unregistered 11 dogs. And they are prohibited from running large -- at large. 12 The owner or person having control of a dog at least six 13 months of age and in a county which adopts this as a 14 subchapter may not allow a dog to run large -- run at large 15 unless the dog is registered under this subchapter, so forth, 16 and has a tag on his neck. Are you going to certify for us 17 that all the dogs in Flat Rock Lake Park that run loose right 18 now, whether they are or are not under the control of the 19 owner, are registered and have a tag on their neck? 20 MR. PALMER: Well, how could I do that? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just asking you a 22 question, because that's state law. 23 MR. PALMER: I feel that all the people that I know 24 that have dogs and walk dogs have them certified, have them 25 vaccinated. I could -- I would go so far as to certify that. 7-23-07 24 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate I put you on 2 the spot, Mr. Palmer, but the point is that while you are a 3 responsible dog owner, and I would venture to suggest that 4 most of the people sitting in this audience today are likewise 5 responsible animal owners, there are those who mess it up for 6 everybody, and they fall into several categories. I just 7 wanted to remind you of that. 8 MR. PALMER: Well, I would agree with you. But even 9 in the most perfect society, there's always going to be 10 somebody -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got it. 12 MR. PALMER: -- messing it up for somebody else. 13 So, what we do is try to take the -- work on the odds, that 14 the more of us that are there with registered dogs, the fewer 15 mishaps there are going to be. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer, you -- you're suggesting 17 that maybe we need to look at an off-leash provision which 18 requires that the animal be under the verbal control of its 19 owner or person there with it. Would that not be the same as 20 "supervised by" and "under the direct control" of the owner or 21 custodian? 22 MR. PALMER: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Aren't they one and the same? 24 MR. PALMER: I would say so. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's already in the order. 7-23-07 25 1 MR. PALMER: That's true. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. 3 MS. CORDER: Can I add something to that real quick? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll get to you in just a second, 5 ma'am. I think we're midstream here on something. You got a 6 question? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Has this county 8 adopted that provision in the state law that you just read? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Janie, do you know? 10 (Ms. Roman nodded.) 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Janie says yes, we have. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have. So, that's another 13 enforcement issue; we have another tool that Animal Control 14 has. It's a matter of enforcing it, that if your dog is not 15 registered, it cannot ever be off its leash, you know. 16 MR. PALMER: Whether it's in the park or not. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, I mean, that's -- I 18 mean, it gives them another control. Just a matter of 19 enforcing it. 20 MR. PALMER: One thing I'd like to point out is that 21 sometimes we have people who come into the park with more 22 aggressive dogs, and these are -- you know, they're very much 23 into protecting their owners. And we have found that the more 24 they mix with our dogs, which are pretty well -- pretty 25 socialized, that the less aggressive they become, and the 7-23-07 26 1 better behaved dogs. So, I think we're helping out in that 2 area, too. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. 4 MR. PALMER: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It would seem to me that in 6 the people that use that park and walk their dogs, whether 7 they they're on a leash or not, if you see a violation, you 8 see a dog running loose, a stray dog, you know, most people 9 have cell phones nowadays. If you would call Animal Control, 10 they know -- they could react to it in pretty fast order, I 11 believe, and take care of an existing problem. If they don't 12 know that there's a problem, they -- you know, they have other 13 things they have to do during the day. They're making calls 14 and stuff like that. And -- 15 MR. PALMER: That's true. That's -- you know, we -- 16 we could help out more in that area. Also, people come in 17 with dogs, small dogs on leashes, and a lot of times these are 18 the people who are the ones who are the first to complain 19 about their dog's under attack or something. But what happens 20 a lot of times, these people are already fearful for their 21 dogs when they come in, and the dogs sense it. And the dog's 22 on a leash, and the other dogs sense it too, so we try to let 23 them know that our dogs are not going to -- and we have some 24 people with small -- very small dogs who they run with the 25 bigger dogs, and bigger dogs are afraid of the smaller ones. 7-23-07 27 1 Because, you know, a chihuahua, when they get -- when they get 2 mad, nobody wants to take them on. (Laughter.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Ms. Corder? 4 MS. CORDER: I was just -- I just wanted to let you 5 know that the three instances were not stray dogs with my dog. 6 And also, a lot of times people -- when you say "verbal 7 command," there are people fishing and their dogs are behind 8 them running loose, and they'll just yell over their shoulder. 9 So, at some point you have to define "verbal command," you 10 know, "verbal control." Another time, you know, dogs are 11 across the park and people will be calling them. When your 12 dog is out of your range -- immediate range, you do not have 13 control on that dog. You know, that's all I wanted to add. 14 So, if you're going to do that, which I think is a great idea, 15 that's fine, but you've got to define that, you know, as to 16 what the verbal control is. So, if it's across the park, you 17 don't have control on the dog. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the term in the existing 19 order says "direct control." 20 MS. CORDER: Well, you have to look at the fact -- 21 I've been around dogs all my life, okay? Big dogs, little 22 dogs, whatever. And they're still a dog, okay? Anything can 23 distract them to set something off on them, and so to be out 24 of the control of that dog can create a problem as well. 25 So -- you know. Thanks. 7-23-07 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Someone in the 2 back of the room? If you'd come forward and give us your name 3 and address so that we might get it on the record, please, 4 ma'am? 5 MS. SHELBY: I have a soft voice, so I'll try to 6 speak up. My name is Sandra Shelby. I live at 805 Loop 534, 7 Apartment 141, here in Kerrville. I have a very bad back, and 8 when I take my dog to the park, I can walk about 15 to 20 9 minutes, and then I bring her back and I sit in a chair, and 10 she plays around the car and in front of me, and I do have 11 verbal control of her. And, basically, that's all I wanted to 12 say, because if I just have her on the leash -- have her on a 13 leash and I can only walk 20 minutes, she doesn't get any 14 exercise. And that's the reason I take her down there, 15 because I live in a condo, and I have to keep her on a leash 16 there, so she's not allowed to run and have freedom there. 17 And that was my purpose to take her to the park, so she could 18 get some exercise. And, like I said, basically that's all I 19 wanted to say. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate it. 21 Anyone else that wishes to be heard on this particular issue? 22 Yes, sir? If you'll come forward and give us your name and 23 address, and tell -- give us your input on this item. 24 MR. CHAPMAN: Good morning. My name is George 25 Chapman, and I live at 111 Arizona Ash. I'm 88 years old, and 7-23-07 29 1 I've walked down at that park for years. It's the only place 2 in Kerr County that we can let our dogs run free with us. I'm 3 sure there must be incidents that happen from time to time, 4 but I've been fortunate in not seeing anything -- any vicious 5 attacks or anything like that down there. You know, dog 6 owners who are leery of that place where we can throw a ball 7 and the dog chases it, or a stick in the water and chases it, 8 they have the rest of Kerr County, including Louise Hays Park 9 and Tranquility Island there. There's other small parks in 10 this county that they can go and the leash law is in force -- 11 in force, and everyone I know -- whenever I go to Tranquility 12 Park, I know I always put my dog on a leash, and I never see 13 one running loose. So, they have the whole Kerr County to -- 14 to walk a dog if they are leery of any free dogs at Louise -- 15 at Flat Rock Park. 16 So, I don't see any reason in the world why the 17 group of us who let our dogs run free down there should be 18 deprived of the privilege of being able to play with the dogs 19 and let the dogs run and get exercise when they have the rest 20 of Kerr County to put leash -- and use the leash law for their 21 protection, if that's what worries them. You know, we're -- 22 it's usually just a bunch of old folks like me that -- that 23 wander down there in the morning and take our dogs. And we 24 settle the city problems, the county problems, the state 25 problems, the world problems. We -- about five minutes, and 7-23-07 30 1 we get everything settled that way. (Laughter.) And the rest 2 of the time, we just joke and walk and play with our dogs and 3 laugh and have fun, and it's a fun place for us. Only place 4 where we get to meet is down there, and we enjoy it. And it's 5 relaxed and open, and everybody seems to be jovial and happy. 6 That's the way I think life should be. And when they -- the 7 people who are worried about us and our dogs, everybody that I 8 -- every dog down there in any group of ours has all of its 9 shots and has its tags and -- and they're just family pets. 10 So, I don't want to see a leash law in force in Flat Rock 11 Park. The rest of Kerr County, great. But for that one 12 exception, where we can just enjoy ourselves, I would like 13 that freedom, and I think all of us feel the same way. 14 (Applause.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Would it be possible 16 -- would it be possible, when your group has got all these 17 problems worked out -- I'm not necessarily concerned about the 18 rest of the problems in the world -- that one of your 19 representatives could come by here and give us the solution to 20 the county problems? (Laughter.) We'd appreciate that. 21 MR. KELLY: We'd be obliged to. 22 MR. CHAPMAN: The solution is, I think, already in 23 place. They have the whole Kerr County to walk their dogs on 24 a leash, and I'm happy for them. Any dog lover, I'm for. 25 Anyway, so that's -- that's what it is. Just allow us one 7-23-07 31 1 place where we can throw a ball and the dog can go chase it. 2 That's all. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 4 MR. CHAPMAN: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a comment, Judge. I 6 think Commissioner Letz touched on something which is really 7 part of the whole problem, and that is the enforcement and the 8 ability to enforce what's already in place. I'm going to 9 suggest that the Road and Bridge people put up another sign 10 down in that park that gives the telephone number of the 11 Animal Control -- Rabies and Animal Control people, and if you 12 folks are -- which I know you are -- responsible, then maybe 13 you're going to help us police the situation for those who are 14 irresponsible. And this is not about you. I understand your 15 concern, and I don't want to get characterized as anti-dog, 16 'cause I've had dogs all my life and I love them, but it's 17 about public safety. That's what it's all about, public 18 safety, and the use of taxpayer-funded property, unfettered. 19 And so I think maybe part of the solution is that you help us 20 police the situation. I'm going to instruct -- or ask the 21 Court to give me permission to instruct the Road and Bridge 22 people to put up a large sign that indicates what the 23 telephone number of Animal Control is, and those of you who 24 carry cell phones, and I would venture to suggest that that's 25 a preponderance of you -- if you don't, go out and buy one -- 7-23-07 32 1 you call Animal Control when you see something that's 2 improper, that is touching on the privilege that you have. 3 It's not a right, it's a privilege. And we'll see where that 4 takes us. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, could we have that 6 section of law on the signs at the park? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. We can 8 certainly arrange to put it there. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be -- you know, show 10 what the -- our law is in the county, and then have the Animal 11 Control phone number right next to it. And I would suspect 12 that -- I mean, you could probably go a long ways to solving 13 the problem by a little bit of enforcement. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not going to belabor 15 this discussion, Judge, too much longer, but this -- in this 16 cover letter, there were half a dozen different topics that 17 were covered, probably in somewhat of an effort to -- to 18 diffuse the focus of attention on dogs on or off leash. One 19 has to do with littering, a complaint about fishermen leaving 20 bait containers and lines, people who, by someone's 21 definition, loiter in the park. I -- I don't particularly 22 like that inference. A lot of people come down there and 23 enjoy the park over their lunch hour, rest, take a little nap, 24 eat their lunch and so forth. I don't consider people who are 25 doing things like that loitering. And other things, some of 7-23-07 33 1 these things that we can probably correct. We'll try to put 2 some more trash barrels down there. But every time you put 3 additional trash barrels down there, what you're doing is 4 inviting those who don't want to take care of their trash in a 5 proper manner to come use it and let the County take care of 6 what they should take care of in the normal course of their 7 domestic life. So, we'll try that, but if we end up finding 8 we've got 2 tons of domestic trash down there that doesn't 9 belong in the park, that will end too. That's all I got, 10 Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The sense I have, Commissioner Letz, 12 is that a sign which essentially informs users of that park 13 that the animal must be restrained and then giving them the 14 definitions of what "restrained" means, and then violations 15 of -- of that should be reported to Kerr County Animal Control 16 with the phone number. Is that essentially where we're coming 17 from? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm not sure we need any 20 particular court action on this. I mean, it's already our 21 order. It's a matter of bringing it to the public's 22 attention. Yes, sir? You wanted to be heard? 23 MR. KELLY: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll come forward and give us 25 your name and address? 7-23-07 34 1 MR. KELLY: Morgan Kelly, 108 Mesa Del Sol, 2 Kerrville, Texas. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 4 MR. KELLY: All I wanted to say is, so long as 5 you're putting a sign up with the telephone number on it, make 6 sure you put a sign up that has all the telephone numbers, in 7 case we see anything, that we can call the police, we can call 8 the County or whatever is appropriate for that action. Fair 9 enough? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. Anybody ever tell you 11 you look like Gene Cerna, the first man to walk on the moon? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Last man. 13 MR. KELLY: Not yet. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last man. 15 MR. KELLY: I'm 86. I could have done it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the sign, the more numbers 17 you put up, the more options you give people to call the wrong 18 number. I mean, the Animal Control issue, maybe could you 19 have a sign that has a -- other law enforcement. I think the 20 Animal Control sign needs to be near this particular order, 21 and then other criminal acts, contact the Sheriff's 22 Department. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or Animal Control will, 24 obviously, call the Sheriff's Department too. 25 AUDIENCE: 911. 7-23-07 35 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, there was a lady with 2 her hand up, third row back next to the aisle. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you wish to be heard, ma'am? 4 MS. CROZIER: I think what I was going to say has 5 already been said. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Give us your name and address, 7 please. 8 MS. CROZIER: I'm Priscilla Crozier. I live at 404 9 Overlook in Kerrville. And I don't think I could be any more 10 eloquent or repeat any better what this gentleman has already 11 said. My husband and I enjoy the dog park. We've been there 12 many times. I do respect that there are incidents that happen 13 that perhaps shouldn't happen. That can happen anywhere under 14 any circumstance, and that's what happens in a free society. 15 I just wanted to add that I think the park is -- we call it 16 the dog park -- is unique, and I appreciate the opportunity of 17 having that land available for our dogs to enjoy themselves 18 and act like dogs. You know, throw the ball, throw the stick 19 in the water, go swimming and all of that. I've served on the 20 Park Board before with the city several years ago under Dennis 21 Kneese, and I know that the parks in Kerrville are available 22 to dogs under the leash, and so I find the dog park, Flat Rock 23 Park, very unique and a wonderful place for those of us who 24 enjoy our dogs having some freedom, so to -- to be able to go 25 down there and do that. And so I just will reemphasize what 7-23-07 36 1 he already said. Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 3 (Applause.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? I want to make a 5 comment right quick, please, before we let this label "dog 6 park" stick. (Laughter.) What's going to happen down there 7 when the County-sanctioned chili cook-off is going on? Or the 8 Easter egg hunt, and all of those -- whatever else goes on 9 down there that we authorize? 10 AUDIENCE: We put our dogs on a leash then. 11 MR. PALMER: We leash them then. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just -- there's possibly -- 13 I foresee a problem with that, dogs running loose through 14 there with children, or maybe even people that have -- have 15 had a few beers. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, my response to that is, 17 the responsible pet owners are going to use good judgment, and 18 if -- if there's a lot of activity in that park going on, it's 19 not going to be conducive to them having the kind of time and 20 activity with their animal that -- that they really want and 21 would otherwise use that park for, and they're probably going 22 to stay away. The irresponsible pet owners, I'm not -- I'm 23 not sure there's anything you can do besides catch them in the 24 act and sack them up to solve that problem. You're going to 25 have that problem when there's no activity or when there's a 7-23-07 37 1 lot of activity in the park. I am -- I'm confident that the 2 responsible pet owners will use good judgment, as -- as 3 they're trying to do and have tried to do up to this point. 4 That's my reaction to that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess what I want to 6 do is just make everyone aware that there are -- it's not a 7 dog park, and there are other functions that go on down there. 8 We could call it the chili cook-off park, too. But -- but I 9 think -- I agree with you; I think that you're correct that 10 the people are courteous to one another. However, I just 11 wanted everybody to understand that it's not an exclusive dog 12 park; that there are other things happening down there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, far from it. Yeah, mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We might even post a sign that 15 would say, you know, during events that are -- that are 16 authorized by the County, the leash law will be in effect. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to have to amend this 18 order if we do that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. That might be 20 something for another time. But I'm just saying, that would 21 be something we could do just to make that enforceable. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I, frankly, am hopeful that that's 23 not necessary. I think -- like I say, I think irresponsible 24 pet owners, it's not going to make any difference what you do 25 or what the rules are. The responsible pet owners are going 7-23-07 38 1 to use good judgment and common sense in their actions down 2 there. That's my thinking. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Janie, you had a comment? 5 MS. ROMAN: I tend to agree with Bruce. The 6 majority of our bites that occur during that time is because 7 people -- like, during the chili cook-off or the Easter egg 8 hunt, because people are allowing their dogs to run at large. 9 So, it never fails. Every year -- and I can go back and pull 10 records. Every year, we have, you know, anywhere from one to 11 two bites occur down at the park. And that's something else 12 that I need people to understand, that it's extremely 13 important if there is an animal bite, they -- it's very 14 important, it's state law that they contact Animal Control. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Janie, what's the penalty for 16 not following our county order, the citation? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Janie, will you come to the podium so 18 people can hear you, please? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our rabies order. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Class C, I think. 21 MS. ROMAN: Yes. The citation can run anywhere from 22 $100 to $500. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, by what's in here -- I 24 mean, whenever you have a dog that's going and being a 25 nuisance, it is a public nuisance, it's not being properly 7-23-07 39 1 supervised, what -- you know, so, I mean, I think the standard 2 changes some. If they're the only one in the park, it's a 3 broader standard than if the park's full. By our statute -- 4 by our rules, it's a much stricter standard. 5 MS. ROMAN: And part of the problem is that we're 6 not being contacted; therefore, we can't enforce something 7 that we're not aware of. So, I think putting a sign up with 8 our phone number is -- is a really good idea, and we can -- I 9 mean, we can start patrolling it on a regular basis as well. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think -- I think your 11 presence during these events should probably be a little bit 12 more visible. That -- that might be of some assistance. 13 MS. ROMAN: Right. Right. We can certainly do 14 that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? Again? 16 MR. KELLY: Yes, sir, I'm full of it. My bank puts 17 a sign on the door, closed Memorial Day, 4th of July and so 18 forth. And may I suggest that maybe you could make the same 19 kind of sign available at the park? Closed to all pets on 20 cook-off days. 21 AUDIENCE: Must be leashed. 22 MR. PALMER: Well, there are people in the chili 23 cook-off who come in who bring their own animals, so some of 24 these bites may be from people who are in the -- in the chili 25 thing. 7-23-07 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 2 MR. PALMER: Could I get a clarification on 3 something? Is the park in the city limits or outside the city 4 limits? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Most of it's outside. 6 MR. PALMER: Most of it is outside the city limits? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The preponderance of it is 8 outside. 9 MR. PALMER: Is -- well, I wanted to ask you about 10 the celebration of the 4th of July. People are allowed to 11 come down there every year and shoot off fireworks, and they, 12 of course, leave a mess. And, so, is that -- are they in the 13 city limits or outside the city limits? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Palmer, I would -- I 15 would ask you to not go there, because that gets us into park 16 rules and regs, and if you want to do that, I've tried that 17 game one other time. I'll be happy to bring all that back one 18 more time. 19 MR. PALMER: No. No, I'm -- just for my 20 information. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You and I can talk 22 privately. 23 MR. PALMER: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're getting outside the agenda 25 item. One last shot. Anybody else in the audience have 7-23-07 41 1 anything to offer? Any member of the Court have anything they 2 wish to offer at this point? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I love this information in 4 here about the dachshunds, how violent they get sometimes. 5 MS. CORDER: Oh, they are. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is funny. You need to 7 read it. 8 AUDIENCE: Sir, that's just one person's opinion. 9 That is not the rest of ours. One person wrote that letter. 10 She is not here. That is not our opinion. We all wrote some 11 other good letters in there that didn't do anything like that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And she didn't sign the 13 document. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. At this time, I am 15 going to recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I'm going 16 to convene a public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 17 109, 110, 118, and 119 of the Y.O. Ranchlands as set forth in 18 -- of Section 3, as set forth in Volume 6, Page 17 of the Plat 19 Records, and located in Precinct 4. 20 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:00 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 21 court, as follows:) 22 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 24 that wishes to be heard -- if you wouldn't mind, please start 25 your conversation after you're outside the room so that we 7-23-07 42 1 might continue conducting business here. Is there any member 2 of the public that wishes to be heard -- is there any member 3 of the public that wishes to be heard concerning the revision 4 of plat for Lots 109, 110, 118, and 119 of the Y.O. Ranchlands 5 in section -- Section 3, as set forth in Volume 6, Page 17, 6 Plat Records? If so, please come forward at this time. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, I will 9 close the public hearing. 10 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:01 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 11 reopened.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will convene a public hearing 14 for road changes in various locations. 15 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:01 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 16 court, as follows:) 17 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 19 that wishes to be heard concerning road changes in various 20 locations as proposed by Road and Bridge Department? If so, 21 please come forward at this time and be heard. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, I will 24 close the public hearing for the road changes in various 25 locations as proposed by Road and Bridge. 7-23-07 43 1 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:02 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 2 reopened.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will convene a public hearing 5 for the revision of plat for Lots 2 through 11 of Privilege 6 Creek Ranches, as set forth in Volume 7, Pages 136 and 137 of 7 the Plat Records, to include road name changes from Privilege 8 Lane to Turkey Knob, and located in Precinct 3. 9 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:02 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 10 court, as follows:) 11 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 13 that wishes to be heard concerning the revision of plat for 14 Lots 2 through 11 of Privilege Creek Ranches, as set forth in 15 Volume 7, Page 136 and 137 of the Plat Records, including a 16 road name change from Privilege Lane to Turkey Knob, located 17 in Kerr County, Precinct 3? 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, I will 20 close the public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 2 21 through 11 of Privilege Creek Ranches, as set forth in Volume 22 7, Pages 136 and 137 of the Plat Records, to include a road 23 name change from Privilege Lane to Turkey Knob, and located in 24 Precinct 3. 25 \ 7-23-07 44 1 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:03 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 2 reopened.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 5 Commissioners Court meeting. At this time, I will call Item 6 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 7 revision of plat for Lots 109, 110, 118, and 119, Y.O. 8 Ranchlands, Section 3, as set forth in Volume 6, Page 17, Plat 9 Records, and located in Precinct 4. 10 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 12 MR. ODOM: This revision is being done under the 13 alternate plat process to divide four lots into one, 109R, of 14 262.19 acres. At this time, we ask you to approve this plat 15 as presented. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will make the motion to 17 authorize the replat as submitted, Y.O. Ranchlands, four 18 tracts, 109, 110, 118, and 119. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 21 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a comment. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Y.O. Landowners 25 Association is always interested in these things that go to 7-23-07 45 1 replat, or any changes to be made in that subdivision, and I 2 encourage them to write a letter whenever there is -- that is 3 going to happen, either in support or being against it. And 4 they have written a letter in favor of this replat. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Super. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment on the 7 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 8 right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I will call 13 Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 14 regulatory road changes. Mr. Odom? 15 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I have three at this time. We 16 ask the Court to approve the following regulatory changes: 17 Speed limit, Goat Creek Cutoff from 30 miles an hour to 18 35 miles an hour; a yield to a stop sign on Greenwood to 19 Marilyn; and a name change, Staacke Ranch Road to Bear Creek 20 Road East, which is in uniformity with Bandera County and 21 Kendall County, is my understanding. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 25 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 7-23-07 46 1 of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I will call 6 Item 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 7 final revision of plat for Lots 2 through 11 of Privilege 8 Creek Ranches, as set forth in Volume 7, Pages 136 and 137, to 9 include road name change for Privilege Lane to Turkey Knob, 10 and located in Precinct 3. Mr. Odom? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The following items have been 12 completed for the revision of plat: Wayne Wells has reviewed 13 the plan/profile drawings, and all of his fees have been paid; 14 the routing slip has been completed; all county fees have been 15 paid; and Ken Kolacny with Matkin-Hoover has submitted the 16 engineered estimate for the letter of credit for roads and 17 drainage, and the letter of credit should be available today. 18 With the letter of credit in place, all subdivision 19 requirements have been completed. Therefore, I recommend that 20 the revision of plat for Lots 2 through 11 of Privilege Creek 21 Road -- Ranches, to include the road name change from 22 Privilege Creek to Turkey Knob, be approved. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 7-23-07 47 1 question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it Privilege Lane or 3 Privilege Creek? 4 MR. ODOM: I believe it's Privilege Creek Lane. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 MR. ODOM: Was the name of the road. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 MR. ODOM: That's a typo, then. It's going to 9 Turkey Knob, and I think I explained, that carries it through. 10 I believe EMS and Sheriff's Department, some agreement has 11 been made, but we want to carry that through, through the 12 phase, if it's extended. And there will be a point that Lane 13 Valley comes into that. But for EMS purposes, we felt like it 14 was clearer and safer to bring that -- make that road name 15 change. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for it. Can you tell 17 me exactly what is a turkey knob? (Laughter.) 18 MR. ODOM: Ask Kendall County. I don't know; it's 19 not my doing. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think maybe they're here. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. ODOM: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Might be kind of where the 24 turkeys roost. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 7-23-07 48 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Up on the knob, you know, of 2 the hill. High tree. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Jackson, do you wish to be heard 5 on this item? 6 MR. JACKSON: No, Your Honor. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any other question or 8 comment on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 9 raising your right hand. 10 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 11 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let the 15 record reflect that Commissioner Letz neither participated in 16 the discussion, and he abstained from voting on the matter. 17 Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all have a nice trip. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to the beginning of the 20 agenda, I suppose. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a guest here from 24 Austin on this Number 16. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. We will move, 7-23-07 49 1 then, to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 2 action to authorize Grantworks to file an application with the 3 Office of Rural Community Affairs for 2007 Texas Community 4 Development Block Grant under the Colonia Planning Fund in the 5 amount of $30,000 for a study of Center Point, Westwood Park, 6 and Hill River Country Estates. Commissioner Williams? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. This is 8 an opportunity to get some more planning funds, which we have 9 in the past done. And my discussion with Grantworks was to 10 sort of focus attention on some of the issues that are 11 probably important not only today, but moving forward in the 12 future in some of the areas that definitely can stand some 13 additional planning. I have a representative from Grantworks 14 here to assist in this discussion. Betty, would you like to 15 come identify yourself and give your name to the Court, 16 please? 17 MS. COLLIER: My name is Betty Collier with 18 Grantworks out of Austin. This plan, which we did a 19 county-wide plan back in 2002, where we mapped the whole 20 county and went in and identified some of the assisted areas 21 that were lower income areas, and some of the areas -- 22 services that were provided in areas and services that weren't 23 provided in other areas. We're looking at doing what they 24 call a colonia area plan, which allows us to go back in and do 25 a concentrated study on just an identified target area, which 7-23-07 50 1 we're looking at Hill River, Westwood Park, and Center Point, 2 to do a more comprehensive study on those areas to work in 3 conjunction with your Water Development Board, planning 4 activities that they're working on at this time. This plan 5 would consist of housing and land use conditions, and would 6 provide a 911 map, incorporate -- incorporation of CAD lot 7 line data on base maps, which have been in the past 8 unavailable. We would also do a study on streets and drainage 9 in those areas with our staff engineer doing some analysis of 10 your needs and some of the solutions for that process, and 11 then also provide mapping overlays on -- of housing, land use, 12 drainage, streets onto digital aerial photos, which we found 13 have been very helpful to be able to use in our planning 14 studies, because if we can't see a building out behind all the 15 trees, these aerial photos typically show us a roof back in 16 there that we can identify. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The cost of the study would 18 be about $30,000? 19 MS. COLLIER: It would be $30,000, would be all the 20 State would allow on that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's what the 22 application is for, $30,000? 23 MS. COLLIER: $30,000. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is no grant match 25 required by the county; is that correct? 7-23-07 51 1 MS. COLLIER: No, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- of the agenda item as 6 styled. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a second, Commissioner 8 Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 11 second. Any question or discussion on that motion? All in 12 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you 17 very much. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming, Betty. 19 MS. COLLIER: Thank you. We'll get on it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, let's go back to the 22 front of the agenda. Item 1, consider, discuss, and take 23 appropriate action regarding agreement to commit to a one-year 24 contract with Direct TV for access to viewing and satellite TV 25 for the Juvenile Detention Facility. Mr. Stanton? 7-23-07 52 1 MR. STANTON: Good morning. One of the -- one of 2 the things that we've run into out there since -- since we 3 changed over -- well, it's always been that way -- is that we 4 haven't had access to any kind of television or local 5 television system, or any type of television system. We allow 6 educational videos and that kind of thing to be shown to the 7 kids, and since I've been out there, I've worked with four 8 different groups. I've worked with two -- two different 9 people from Dish Network, and also worked with Time-Warner. 10 And, unfortunately, those three -- the least amount that it 11 would cost to get everything set up and out to the facility 12 has been about $1,155. I was in contact with Direct TV the 13 other day -- about a month ago, and they've agreed to come 14 out, provide all the programming and the installation of 15 everything that we need for an initial start-up cost of about 16 $499. And the impact on this budget year would be about $620 17 total for the programming and the initial -- the receivers, 18 the dish, everything. Next year, the total impact on the 19 budget will be around $900 for programming. And I'm just 20 asking that the Commissioners consider allowing us to do this 21 out there at the facility. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does this system have the 23 filters to filter out programming that you don't want in 24 there? 25 MR. STANTON: It'll have the ability to do that. 7-23-07 53 1 All the receivers will be placed in the control room, so the 2 kids won't have access to the receivers to be able to change 3 the channel or anything like that. The only people that will 4 be able to change the channels are the control room operators. 5 But, yes, sir, they -- it does have filters. We are also 6 getting a business package, which cuts out a lot of the stuff 7 that -- a lot of the channels that they don't need access to 8 begin with. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this money in your 10 budget? 11 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. It's -- I'm sorry. Yes, 12 sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now -- go ahead. 14 MR. STANTON: I was just going to say, yes, sir, it 15 is in the budget this year, and it's in the proposed budget. 16 There's actually some additional money in the proposed budget 17 that I thought we were going to have to go with one of these 18 higher-priced alternatives, where -- and it's in our proposed 19 budget for next year also. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have television monitors 21 in each of the dorms? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I get to ask that question. 23 Do you have televisions out there already? 24 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, we have the televisions. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what have they been doing 7-23-07 54 1 if you haven't had any television service? 2 MR. STANTON: We have DVD's that the kids -- we -- 3 we try to go out and rent educational -- different types of 4 DVD's for the kids to watch. One of the really neat things 5 is, this is going to help us -- we're going to be able to put 6 the televisions actually in the -- in the different wings or 7 the different dorms, so we won't have to mix the males and 8 females when we're viewing different videos and stuff like 9 that. Right now, we're having to bring them all out in the -- 10 in a general area and show them everything at one time, where 11 this way we'll be able to separate the boys in one wing and 12 the girls in another wing, and be able to show different 13 videos -- or different -- different viewing choices. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see one of the -- one of 15 the stations here available to you is one of my favorite, and 16 I highly recommend it. The Military Channel. 17 MR. STANTON: We can definitely show a lot of that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 24. 19 MR. STANTON: 24 hours a day? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's a great idea, 21 myself. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval of the 23 proposal by Mr. Stanton to commit to a one-year contract with 24 Direct TV, and installation for access to viewing satellite TV 25 for Juvenile Detention Facility. 7-23-07 55 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, let's see. We're going 2 to have to have the Judge to sign an agreement? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, and the County 4 Judge sign that Direct TV agreement. 5 MR. STANTON: And, Judge, I have a -- they just 6 faxed me a new agreement. Wording changed in 2007, so -- oh, 7 let Mr. Emerson review it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to County Attorney's 9 approval, of course. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Subject to the County 11 Attorney's approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You made the second, Commissioner 14 Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I thought. We have a 17 motion and second as indicated. Any question or discussion on 18 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 24 to Item 2; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 25 regarding revenue for the current budget year. This is the 7-23-07 56 1 detention facility, Mr. Stanton? 2 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. This was originally 3 supposed to be on the agenda -- or the Commissioners Court 4 agenda approximately two meetings ago, so the information that 5 you -- that you guys currently have is about a month old. 6 I've updated -- updated that information, and I'll just go 7 over it with you real quick. There are -- if you'd look at 8 the -- if you look at the very -- the second page, that's a 9 breakdown of the revenues and the expenditures for the 10 remainder of this budget year. Our -- our total expenditures 11 so far this year have been about $590,000. We've got an 12 expected expenditure total of about 131 for the remainder of 13 the year. Up at the top is our revenues, and that's -- the 14 number at the bottom of the page is our estimated revenue -- 15 or estimated reserve balance. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what you're telling us 17 is that -- that based upon what was originally budgeted, both 18 revenue and expenditures, expenditures are a little bit below 19 that which were anticipated, and revenue is considerably in 20 excess of what was anticipated when we established this 21 budget? 22 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's a good picture. 24 MR. STANTON: The second page -- or the third page 25 is basically a breakdown of the revenues for the -- this is 7-23-07 57 1 actually just -- is only considering the kids or the billing 2 that we do per month, and that's the total of the billings. 3 Actually, the number that is -- that is budgeted in -- on the 4 official budget as the projected revenue was only $280,000, 5 which is significantly lower. If you look at the next page, 6 if you look -- there's one that has a total projected revenue 7 of 328,500 up in the top left-hand corner. That is what our 8 projected revenue would be at $90 a day, averaging 10 kids a 9 day out there. And that's a breakdown of that. If you flip 10 to the second -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are we charging now? 12 MR. STANTON: We're charging $90 a day. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. STANTON: What was -- what was placed in the 15 budget or put in the budget was the next page, which was 16 $280,000. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kevin, can you go back to your 18 first numbers page? 19 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have estimated ad valorem 21 taxes. 22 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How did -- that facility doesn't 24 get -- how does that -- where's that number come from? Is 25 that money that's coming out of the general fund to support 7-23-07 58 1 the facility? 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the amount of the ad valorem 4 taxes allocated to -- 5 MS. WILLIAMS: To fund that facility. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- fund the operation of this 7 facility by the Auditor. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have a -- does it have a 9 separate small tax rate in our big tax rate? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that estimate -- is that 13 allocation for operations, or is that operations and debt 14 service? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Operation only. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: I think operations only. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, there's a separate line item 19 for the -- for the 2005 Certificates of Obligation. There's a 20 separate entry for that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where -- on that same page, why 23 don't you show the -- the last page, there's total billings of 24 292,759 so far. 25 MR. STANTON: Mm-hmm, yes, sir. 7-23-07 59 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why doesn't that show -- or 2 where is that on the revenues? 3 MR. STANTON: It's in the current cash account. 4 It's part of the current cash account, along with the 5 estimated revenues for July, August, and September. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, of that, the -- 7 almost 200,000 of that is Kerr County funds coming from 8 another pot. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 68 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So -- but if you take 11 out that 200,000, we're almost at a break-even point on that 12 facility, which -- to the taxpayers of Kerr County as a whole. 13 Am I looking at that right? Well, no, 'cause we have that 14 revenue -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Actually, we're in excess of 16 revenues. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 540,000 that's going into 18 it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: There's two components for the 20 income -- for the revenue to the facility. One is the amount 21 of ad valorem taxes allocated based upon the budgetary 22 expenditures. The balance of that is the anticipated revenue. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the facility's costing about 7-23-07 60 1 500,000 a year, total. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, little less than that. 3 MR. STANTON: Little less than that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon these numbers. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is a lot better, which is 6 good. And most of that -- or a good part of that money, 7 almost half, we're going to spend whether we have a facility 8 or not. We're going to spend it somewhere. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to send those 10 kids someplace. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, when you have additional 12 expenditures in the way of transportation costs, personnel 13 costs, and -- and those expenses would be greater -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if it would be expended elsewhere. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a good picture. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a good picture. 18 MR. STANTON: Real quick, if you just look at the 19 very last page, Commissioner Letz has mentioned, that's a 20 breakdown of the counties that we contract with, along with 21 the percentages of the overall population, the billable days 22 and that kind of stuff, so it's real informative. Our biggest 23 jump, I guess, has been with Burnett County. Prior to this, 24 we didn't have any Burnett County kids, so we're starting to 25 get those kids, and so the percentages, we -- Kerr County 7-23-07 61 1 still is, like Commissioner Baldwin said, about 64 percent of 2 our business. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 68. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Total revenue. 5 MR. STANTON: Oh, total revenue is 68, yes, sir. 6 Overall population is 64. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're saying. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And from other counties, 9 these are all preadjudicated? 10 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, everything is 11 preadjudicated. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good picture. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Stanton. Any other 14 questions or comments? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to say that we did 16 something right here, and this thing is a glowing report 17 compared to where we were at three years ago. So, I commend 18 you gentlemen and Mr. Stanton for coming together and making 19 these kind of decisions, as painful to the taxpayers that it 20 wasn't done prior to us receiving the facility, but 21 nevertheless, it's a done deal, and did some good work. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have any action to take on 23 this? 24 MR. STANTON: No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No, just information. Any member of 7-23-07 62 1 the Court have anything further to offer on this item? Let's 2 move to Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 3 on approving contracts for emergency services between C. 4 Burkett and W. Brown with Kerr County Juvenile Detention 5 Facility. Mr. Stanton again. 6 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. We were unfortunate that we 7 lost our nurse that we currently had out at the facility, but 8 we've been lucky enough to be able to contract with 9 Ms. Burkett and Ms. Brown to provide those services for us out 10 there at the facility at the same cost we were paying the 11 other nurse. And Ms. Burkett's going to be our -- our main 12 nurse. Ms. Brown is going to fill in for her when she can't 13 be there or when we can't get ahold of her. And we -- at the 14 current rate, we're billing out -- or they're billing us at a 15 rate of $35 an hour. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's been a standard rate? 17 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, that's -- no, sir, it's the 18 rate that we've been paying for the last couple years. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what you've got is 20 you've got a primary and an alternate, where before you just 21 had one to call on? 22 MR. STANTON: Right, yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And now you've got an alternate, and 24 the rate has not increased? 25 MR. STANTON: Right, yes, sir. 7-23-07 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The contract's -- County 2 Attorney's reviewed it? 3 MR. EMERSON: It's the same one we used. We put it 4 together a couple years ago. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 8 indicated. Any further question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got a comment after we 10 vote, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that includes my authority 12 to sign it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Question or comments? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to -- I think 16 it's linked close enough that the County Attorney won't slap 17 my wrist. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he might. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But he might. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I wouldn't give him a heads-up if it 21 were me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me move out of the way. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But we've had inquiries 24 about leasing the facility, Judge, and I've dealt with some of 25 those, and I just want to tell the Court that they're both 7-23-07 64 1 still alive. Both -- both groups that are interested 2 seriously in leasing the big facility are very much still 3 alive. Their applications have gone through several loops at 4 T.Y.C., and they're just awaiting -- both groups are really 5 awaiting final word from T.Y.C. with respect to issuance of a 6 contract. Now, the single most compelling issue, other than 7 having to sit down and negotiate with us, is the educational 8 component issue, and the group out of Colorado has indicated 9 that they are very confident that they can fashion an 10 agreement with a charter school in San Antonio to provide 11 those educational services. I assume that the other group -- 12 you've talked to the Eckerd group, have you not, Mr. Stanton? 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, I have. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they're also working to 15 satisfy that requirement that has to happen. So, if -- if 16 that takes place and if the contracts are issued, then I think 17 we'll find ourselves in a very good position of having two 18 suitors for that facility, and negotiation ought to be 19 interesting. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any other question or 21 comments? 22 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 23 THE CLERK: There's a motion and a second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion and second. All in favor of 25 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7-23-07 65 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Kevin. 6 MR. STANTON: Judge, there was just one other thing 7 I wanted to mention real quick on the nurse situation. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes? 9 MR. STANTON: I wanted to thank Ms. Eva Hyde for 10 assisting us in finding our nurse. She -- I really didn't 11 know how to go through accessing her, trying to find a nurse, 12 and she found me one in about 10 minutes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Found you two, looks like. 14 MR. STANTON: Two, yes, sir. So I wanted to take 15 this time to thank her. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Hyde. We appreciate 17 your work. Item 4, is there any need to go into executive on 18 that item? 19 MS. HULETT: I don't think so. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me go ahead and call Item 21 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on a 22 salary/status adjustment for O.S.S.F. Inspector since he has 23 acquired training, passed examination, and received Designated 24 Representative license effective June 27, '07. This deals 25 with our new O.S.S.F. Inspector, who obtained his 7-23-07 66 1 certification as Designated Representative. Essentially, what 2 you're asking for is an educational step increase under our 3 existing policy, which provides for step increases for 4 longevity and educational attainment? 5 MS. HULETT: That is correct. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- personally, I don't 7 think it requires our action, but I'll be glad to do it. I 8 think it comes automatically. I mean, I know that -- I mean, 9 you know, Road and Bridge people do it, and the Sheriff's 10 people, they'll automatically get the increases when they get 11 the educational advancement. I think this needs to be 12 coordinated with the H.R. Department. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wasn't sure. That's why I 14 put it on the agenda. 15 MS. HYDE: We also just wanted to make sure, because 16 there are several educational certifications that this office 17 can go through, so we want -- we discussed before, when it's 18 one that's required for their job. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What will the new step and 22 grade be? 23 MS. HYDE: A 17. 24 MS. HULETT: 17-6. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a 17-5. 17-5 to 17-6. We 7-23-07 67 1 can certainly vote on it and do it. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we authorize a 3 salary increase for educational training received by Roy 4 Shaver, Environmental Health Department, to go from a 17-5 to 5 a 17-6. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Will that be effective July 1 of this 8 year? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, be effective next pay 10 period. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 12 indicated. Any question or discussion on the motion? 13 MS. HULETT: What was the effective date again, sir? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: July 1. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Effective July 1. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: His certification was June 27, it 17 appears to me. 18 MS. HULETT: Yes, that is correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We didn't get it until after the 20 first of the month, but there'll have to be some adjustment 21 made via the Treasurer, but I'm sure they can work that out. 22 MS. HULETT: We didn't receive it till July 5th. 23 That's the reason we didn't present it sooner. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a 7-23-07 68 1 comment. This is one of the best things we do, I think. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any others? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go 8 ahead and take about a 15-minute recess. 9 (Recess taken from 10:31 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 12 might. We'll go with Item 7; consider, discuss, and take 13 appropriate action to change private road name from Louise 14 Ehler to Barbary Way. Mr. Odom? 15 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Well, I really -- pardon me. 16 I just -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can go over it real quick. 18 MR. ODOM: Basically, this is in Commissioner Letz' 19 area, but this has been requested by the property owners 20 around there, is my understanding of the background on it, and 21 that they asked to change the name to Barbary Way from -- I 22 can't remember the name. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Louise Ehler. 24 MR. ODOM: Louise Ehler. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a situation -- this road 7-23-07 69 1 was questionable whether it was County-maintained for a while. 2 We determined it is not a County-maintained road; it gets to 3 be a private road, which means the property owners can change 4 it. And they all have reluctantly agreed to this name. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reluctantly? 6 MR. ODOM: And that road was built when we built 7 Lane Valley. That was a detour route at one time, so that's 8 how it even came about that we were involved in it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have documentation that all 10 property owners support this. 11 MR. ODOM: Support that. There was -- I think in 12 your packet was a -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 17 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 18 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 8; 23 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to accept a new 24 letter of credit for Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs 25 Estates located in Precinct 4. 7-23-07 70 1 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Final plat of Vistas 2 Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates was approved July of 3 2006, with a letter of credit to cover the road and drainage 4 improvements. That letter expires the 24th of July of '07, 5 and the roads are not completed as of yet. When this plat was 6 approved, there was a one-year time frame for completing the 7 roads. The current rules allow a two-year span. The 8 developer is asking for an extension and is offering a new 9 letter of credit in the same amount, for a quarter of a 10 million. At this time, we ask the Court to approve the 11 extension and accept the letter of credit for Vistas 12 Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 16 as indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of 17 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 22 to Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 23 adopt a policy for adding items to the Kerr County web site to 24 inform employees of nonofficial information. Ms. Hyde? 25 MS. HYDE: Coming. 7-23-07 71 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Hyde, help me -- help me 2 understand completely. Why are you doing this, and the I.T. 3 guys is not? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we asked her to. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did? 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 8 MS. HYDE: You were just checking. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you do a good job? 10 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. This policy was approved with 11 the I.T. guy, and the second I.T. guy, which is Brad here in 12 the back. The first I.T. guy is on a mission right now, so he 13 couldn't be here, but it's real simple; it's just one page. 14 The County reserves the right to select any and all postings 15 that are displayed. That way, if something comes through that 16 we don't approve of or feel that is not part of what we 17 intended, then it can be said no to. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kerr County reserves the right 19 to. Who's the "Kerr County" that makes that decision? I see 20 different fingers pointing different ways. 21 MR. ALFORD: As far as I'm concerned, it'd be 22 Commissioners Court. If it's something real simple -- what we 23 talked about at the last meeting was if something's real 24 simple, like Market Days, 4-H, it can just go through Jody. 25 Something a little bit more complex than that, a church, a 7-23-07 72 1 garage sale, whatever the case may be, it would go through 2 Commissioners Court. 3 MS. HYDE: Right, but Jody would put it on the 4 agenda. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And there's two -- 6 there's two pages. This is the community event calendar, 7 which allows for unofficial information to be posted, like a 8 spaghetti supper for an employee that -- that needs some help. 9 Maybe their house burned down, or they might be a cancer 10 victim or something like that. And then there's also the 11 community links page which you asked me to do, which has 12 community links. So, 4-H could put their link up, veterans -- 13 Hill Country Veterans can put their link up, the V.A., Better 14 Business Bureau, whatever. And it would just be straight 15 links, no pictures, no information, no enforcement by the 16 County. It's just a straight links page like other counties 17 have. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 2 of your handout, 19 Ms. Hyde, is that -- 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a standard form now? 22 It's been developed? 23 MS. HYDE: Just a -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that we're reducing the 25 amount of work the webmaster has to do? 7-23-07 73 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So these cases are not 3 creating a lot of additional work? 4 MS. HYDE: No, sir. That way it can be copied and 5 pasted. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- 8 MS. HYDE: And then the calendar itself. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you my question 10 while you're looking for the calendar. What about J.P. 1's 11 retirement party that we're having? Is that the kind of thing 12 that you would put in here to notify -- 13 MS. HYDE: Sure. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- employees? 15 MS. HYDE: Sure, if y'all feel like that -- that's 16 an acceptable -- yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure it would be. 18 MS. HYDE: It's unofficial. It's not -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Birthday party for you might 20 not be a... 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big candles. You'd have to 22 get Holloway's approval. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have to move it to a tent to 24 do it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The County Attorney had a question. 7-23-07 74 1 MR. EMERSON: I have a quick question. I may be 2 reading this too literally, but the first sentence, second 3 paragraph, says, "Request for posting may be sponsored by any 4 county official." Does that mean it has to go through a 5 county official? 6 MS. HYDE: We're requesting that if somebody has a 7 posting, it comes through a county official. Now, I don't 8 know whether it's a department head, but a county official. 9 Or they come in and request it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: For example, if someone in your 11 office -- Christine, for example -- wanted to have something 12 posted, she would clear it through you, and then it would come 13 up, and same with other departments or elected officials' 14 offices. 15 MR. EMERSON: That's fine. I just wanted to make 16 sure I understood. 17 MS. HYDE: The thought process was it would reduce 18 some of the things that might have to come to Commissioners 19 Court. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, like, if Little League wants 21 to put their sign-up dates here, they have to come to someone 22 in the county to get that person to put it on for them? They 23 can't come -- 24 MS. HYDE: They could holler at y'all, and y'all 25 just tell Jody, yes, they've talked to us. 7-23-07 75 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's good. 2 MS. HYDE: We're trying to make it simple. And then 3 this is the calendar that Brad put together. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there one calendar -- this 5 one says County Events. Is there one for county events and 6 one for community events? 7 MS. HYDE: Well, it's just a title. We're going to 8 change the title so that everything matches, all of them 9 match. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, where is -- is this 12 form going to be in the hands of other folks so that we're 13 operating from one uniform form, and not just backs of 14 envelopes and napkins and so forth? 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. And that way, it can be put 16 onto the calendar if need be as well. 17 MR. ALFORD: They're going to download that off the 18 internet; we'll have that posted. This -- both pages will be 19 on the internet so they can simply go in, copy it, and then 20 forward it to Jody or to one of y'all, whoever. So, it will 21 be real easy. Hopefully, most of them will be typed so we'll 22 be able to read them. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7-23-07 76 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. 2 Questions or comments on the motion? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We will move 8 to Item 17; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 9 approve '05-'06 Management Discussion and Analysis as part of 10 the outside independent audit. Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think in the packet there's 12 the -- the draft that I hand-wrote this year. Might not have 13 been as timely as it should have been, but I did get to it, 14 and I believe it's probably -- is it in the new audit book 15 that we got too? 16 MS. HARGIS: Should be. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the audit book. A 18 little bit of a time -- a grant was being held up in Austin 19 because I did not write it on time, so it was kind of sent 20 off, and it's -- we're kind of approving it after the fact a 21 little bit. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be a grant I'm 23 interested in? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No -- well, you may be 25 interested in it, but nothing to do with anything with you 7-23-07 77 1 directly. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Criminal Justice. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a Criminal Justice grant. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I knew the Water 7 Development Board required it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's pretty much the same form 9 as prior years. Just kind of goes over the highlights as I 10 saw them. It was a -- not an extraordinary year from big 11 events. Things happened both the year before and the year 12 after, from things like lawsuits being settled and Juvenile 13 Detention Facility, things of that nature. So, it's -- I 14 guess the biggest thing that I came across when I was writing 15 it is that our reserves at the end of that year were at an 16 all-time low since I've been a Commissioner, at 19.7 percent, 17 and that was related to the prior year, really, on the 18 Juvenile Detention Facility. And I think it's already 19 recovered to about 22 percent or so at this point. But, there 20 it is, and I make a motion to approve it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Any question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say, Jon 25 goes to a lot of trouble, and you look at the thing; it is -- 7-23-07 78 1 it's a fairly major undertaking, and I appreciate him doing 2 that. However, it is -- it is the most boring reading I have 3 ever done in my life. It's horrible. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exciting. It's exciting stuff. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jeannie and I like it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Y'all have fun. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's good bedtime reading, 9 'cause it puts you to sleep. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, based upon Commissioner 11 Letz' enthusiasm for the subject matter, I think it's 12 appropriate that we allow him to continue that enthusiasm in 13 future years. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I agree with that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am so exited. That's what 16 we do here, is let people be all that they can be. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, focus on that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Focus on that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's an understatement. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other comments or 22 questions on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 23 by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7-23-07 79 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 3 to Item 18; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 4 regarding 2006-2007 outside independent auditor and authorize 5 an RFP or an RFQ as required. Commissioner Letz, you placed 6 this on the agenda. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. We've 8 talked about this previously. We've been using Pressler 9 Thompson since 1993 as our outside audit firm, and I really -- 10 I'll turn it over -- I think Ms. Hargis has some input as to 11 what we should do in this area. Jeannie? 12 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'd like to suggest that we not 13 change this year, because I'm new, and it would be kind of -- 14 we're so late in the year. If we did it, like, in January or 15 February so that I would have more time to investigate 16 different firms -- there's not a lot of firms that do 17 governmental work, and you need to be sure that they're 18 competent, that they have done them before, that they're not 19 sending in a fresh team that really doesn't know what they're 20 doing. And I've trained a lot of them over the years, and I 21 really prefer not. There is also a new -- it's called SAS; 22 it's a Statement of Auditing Standards, and it goes into 23 effect this year, and it concerns internal control. And 24 what's happening in the state is that the auditors are having 25 to write people up for internal control weaknesses that 7-23-07 80 1 they've been doing for years, that wouldn't have normally been 2 written up. But this is -- is one of the Enron statements 3 that we have to comply with this year. It's kind of like 4 GASB; it's been phased in. And a lot of these things I would 5 think if you -- if we stay with an auditor that we -- has 6 already been doing our work, they know what our system of 7 internal control is and they're aware of it. A new auditor 8 might find a weakness that -- that's really not a weakness, 9 but because they've never done our audit before, that might 10 occur, and because I've not been here long enough to, you 11 know, go over that. 12 What I'd really like to do is have the opportunity 13 to put a lot of internal control things in place, and then 14 change auditors. And that would give me that opportunity, 15 because I need about six months to go through and implement 16 some plans that I have to -- and I need to learn a little more 17 as to where I need to put additional measures. I don't know 18 that we necessarily have that many problems, but it just gives 19 me an opportunity to evaluate the system of internal control 20 by going through it with another firm that's already been 21 here. But if -- if you want to change, I have gotten a couple 22 of names, but I'd like to get, you know, a few more. There 23 are -- this side of the -- of the state has auditors that they 24 use. I'm more accustomed to the east -- east side of the 25 state, and I know some firms over there. A lot of the firms 7-23-07 81 1 are going out of this kind of business, because it's -- it's 2 costly. They don't make a lot of money, because it's pretty 3 time-intense. So, I think that you probably do need to 4 change. I just wish that we could wait maybe until I get my 5 feet on the ground a little bit better, but that's up to 6 y'all. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've had this discussion 8 several times during the year, and it always seems to focus on 9 internal controls in one category or another that either have 10 been ignored, perhaps are missing or whatever. And I -- I 11 referenced this subject to the Court some time ago, because it 12 seems to me that we have been with this firm an inordinate 13 length of time, and typically, from my experience -- I'm going 14 to ask you what your experience is -- governmental agencies 15 tend to change every three to five years, sometimes five. 16 What has been your experience? 17 MS. HARGIS: It's just across the board. It just 18 depends. And keep in mind, my -- my experience with counties 19 is not as great as with cities and small municipalities. 20 Generally speaking, if -- if the Court is pleased with that 21 auditor and they feel they're getting the document that they 22 need, they'll stay. Montgomery County had a local firm that 23 was doing it for years, and they changed and went to another 24 firm for three years, which is a pretty big firm out of Waco, 25 and they kind of specialize in audits. They were not pleased 7-23-07 82 1 with their document. They were not pleased with the results, 2 and they went back to the local firm. One of the -- the 3 advantages of using a local firm is that you can call them up, 4 and -- and they generally don't charge as much of an hourly 5 fee once an audit's done or if you have a question. And 6 those, I think, are more frequent now because of the changes 7 in GASB and with the SAS's. 8 We do know that, fortunately -- I don't know if it's 9 fortunately or unfortunately, and I don't know if Texas pushed 10 the point, but GASB Board is going to be disbanded. And 11 exactly when, I don't know, but they have decided that they 12 have gone over their powers, and so they're going to be -- 13 they're not going to do away, however, with what they've 14 written. They're just going to disband the board, and there's 15 another board that's been in effect since financial 16 accounting's been in place, and that's called FASB, which is 17 your Financial Accounting Standards Board. So, they're just 18 going to fold them up into there, but they're going to -- 19 they're going to be concentrating more on the whole financial 20 picture rather than just on governmental. GASB's board is 21 made up of, unfortunately or fortunately, mostly professors 22 and your big six -- big four people that have done a lot of 23 these type of audits, and they just got carried away. They've 24 just -- they just keep writing. Originally, it was supposed 25 to stop with five statements, and now we have close to 60, so 7-23-07 83 1 it's ridiculous. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, in -- in attempting to 3 get responses to an RFQ for a new auditing firm, a request for 4 qualifications is issued. If that's issued in August, what 5 kind of response should we expect from that for the current 6 year's audit? 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, that's why we need probably at 8 least five or six firms to pick from. Because, generally 9 speaking, they've already got their -- especially with 10 governmental audits, their team's already ready to go out and 11 in place. So, we really have about 60 days before your 12 year-end, and that means that they're going to have to see 13 whether or not they have the time frame for us, so we may hit 14 some firms that -- that'll just turn us down because they just 15 don't have the capability. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Because they've already got their 17 schedule? 18 MS. HARGIS: They've already got their schedule in 19 place, and it's full, and they don't have the staff. And the 20 firm out of Conroe that I really like a lot -- I'm not sure, 21 but I would send to it them, but I don't -- their head audit 22 person left, I guess, about eight or nine months ago. She was 23 excellent, but I don't know whether they've hired someone to 24 replace her. But they have extensive experience in county 25 auditing. The firm the City's using is a governmental audit 7-23-07 84 1 firm there out of Abilene, and I did e-mail her and ask her if 2 she would be interested. I haven't heard from her yet. So, 3 we just have to send out something to see if there was even 4 interest or time. And I'd almost rather send out an e-mail 5 and say, "Do you have the time?" before I bother even going 6 ahead and sending it out to them and getting no response at 7 all. I did talk with a gentleman who worked with me on the 8 single audit committee, and he does Lampasas County, and he 9 also audits counties. And he said that he would send me a 10 couple of names, and I haven't gotten those yet either. So, I 11 mean, we can do it. It's just going to be tight, and we 12 probably won't get them in here to do the field work until 13 November, 'cause we're not going to be the first on their 14 list. You know, they're going to fit us in, so it may take us 15 a little longer to get the audit. It's just up to y'all. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- when -- normally or best 17 case, when would they start doing the audit? 18 MS. HARGIS: They like to really get the 19 notification that they're going to do it the following year. 20 So, you know, any time between now and, say, January or 21 February, because they set their calendars probably the first 22 of January. I mean, they set our -- like, with the city, 23 they're going in next week -- following week to do field work, 24 early field work, because that helps to speed up the process. 25 And especially if you've got -- keep in mind, it's -- 90 7-23-07 85 1 year-ends are really a disaster. Like, in Harris County, you 2 have 650 water districts with year-ends. They finally had to 3 get some of them to change. You got the county, you've got 4 all the schools, and most counties and cities want theirs in 5 December, the counties especially, and school districts. But 6 I don't know exactly when you get yours, but if we don't put a 7 time frame on them that they have to be done, since you don't 8 submit yours to GFOA -- if you submit it to GFOA, we'd have to 9 have it in-house, and you would have to approve it about the 10 1st of March for me to get it ready to submit to GFOA. I'm 11 not ready to do that yet. I would like to do that, maybe a 12 submittal to GFOA the following year. But this year would be, 13 you know, a little close. So, I -- it just depends if y'all 14 are willing to -- to get your document in April. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's JFOA? 16 MS. HARGIS: GFOA, Governmental Financing Officers 17 Association. And what they do is they -- they give awards to 18 cities and counties for presenting your audits and your 19 financial information to them. They review it -- and, in 20 fact, I was asked to get on the committee. They review your 21 document and go over it. It just requires more than your 22 M.D.& A.; it's a bigger letter. There's some additional 23 supplemental schedules that have to go in, and you send it in 24 to them, they review it, and you get this little plaque, and 25 it just says that you've done everything right. It's nice to 7-23-07 86 1 have. It's just -- kind of shows the general public that not 2 only did you pass your independent audit, but you sent it to a 3 second agency and they reviewed it, and you got an award 4 for -- for presentation. That's basically what it is. It's 5 just a -- go ahead. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you see any risk to Kerr County by 7 delaying the -- the selection of a new auditing firm one more 8 year? 9 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't think so. What we need to 10 do is to -- when we do the engagement letter, we need to 11 expand the scope to the -- to the areas that we feel where 12 there is internal control. Keep in mind that most people 13 don't understand a financial audit is not a fraud audit. It's 14 not an audit that goes in there to find where you have fraud 15 happening. There -- if they find it, they're going to give it 16 to you, but the audit doesn't look for it. In fact, if you 17 read the engagement letter, it specifically says we are not 18 looking for fraud. If we find it, we're going to report it, 19 but we're not looking for it. Now, if you expand the scope of 20 the engagement and say we want you to look at some particular 21 instances, and we need to do that, then you kind of hold their 22 feet to the fire, and then they audit those areas more than if 23 you just gave them an engagement letter and said I want you to 24 do my financial statements; I want you to tell me whether my 25 figures are correct and so forth and so on. But if you expand 7-23-07 87 1 it and say, you know, I want you to look in this area, I want 2 you to give me a letter on this area, and I think you can do 3 that, and we can expand the scope on that enough that they'll 4 look for those particular areas. 5 And, to be honest with you, when -- whenever there's 6 fraud or misappropriation of funds or anything like that, it's 7 never the auditors that find it. It's generally someone 8 outside of that organization, or it's been my experience -- I 9 just worked with a fraud case right before I left with my 10 company; it was a homeowners' association, and I happened to 11 do the water district, and they asked me to look at it, and so 12 I found it. Because they -- they felt like that it was there. 13 Well, she had already been doing it, and the audit had already 14 been done, and she was doing it through the audit. Well, it 15 was very hard to find. I had to be a little deceptive and 16 think like a crook and go into her books and look for it. So, 17 it's something you -- you have to do. So, most of the time, 18 if you want a fraud audit done, it's going to cost you three 19 times what you pay for a financial audit, because it takes 20 that much time. You have to get literally into the records 21 and you have to start looking, so it's a totally different 22 animal. But we can set up enough of a scope in our engagement 23 that will look at those areas so that if they think there is 24 anything, then they can come to me and then we can kind of 25 work together to find it. So, that would be my only -- and 7-23-07 88 1 you'd have to do that with even a new audit firm. But either 2 way, it doesn't matter to me; I just -- it would just be 3 easier for me, but I'll do what you want me to do. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have two questions, 5 Jeannie. Would it be your intention to draft a new letter of 6 engagement and bring it to us for our perusal? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that we can be clear in 9 our mind that some of the issues that we've encountered over 10 the last 12 or more months are being perhaps more closely 11 addressed? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be your 14 intention? 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes, I would want you to review it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second question has to do 17 with your comments about -- about your intention to establish 18 some new internal control. Based on your initial observation 19 and ongoing observations, I guess, when do you think most of 20 those would be in place as we move forward? 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm trying to get my feet on the 22 ground and get through the budget, but -- and I had talked to 23 the Judge a little bit about a priority list. There's three 24 items that I'd like to do pretty quickly, and I'll get those 25 -- try to get those to you this week. A fourth, which just -- 7-23-07 89 1 you know, I'd like to do the checks a different way, partly 2 for productivity and partly for -- we don't number our checks, 3 and one of the things that we learn in Accounting 101 is that 4 you never use blank checks. And, in fact, that was the way 5 this particular person -- with no numbers on them, that's how 6 she was getting away with it; she was actually printing double 7 checks, and then when the bank statement come in, she would do 8 the bank statement and -- and move things around. 9 Pre-numbered checks. 10 Also, there's -- and I've gone over this a little 11 bit with Mindy. I think it would help her. The checks 12 that -- the City has the same type of a system, and they -- 13 they can -- you can send the checks through, and they're 14 three-part. It prints the name and address on one side, the 15 check on the other. You put it in a folding machine, and you 16 can do 800 or 1,000, and they can be folded in minutes, 17 whereas Mindy has to fold all those checks and put them in an 18 envelope. So, it's going to save you postage, envelopes, and 19 time. Time, I think, is -- is very crucial in our system 20 of -- kind of government, because we don't have enough staff. 21 Then I'd like to put a cash policy in place, but I need to 22 visit with each one of the clerks and with everyone to see 23 exactly how they're doing it, because I need to write a policy 24 that encompasses everyone, but then there's always those 25 little particular things that each -- each area may need to 7-23-07 90 1 cover. I did this at my prior place of employment, because we 2 did run into a little bit of a problem there. 3 One thing would be when they come in and bring their 4 checks or their deposits, we have a log; we have them sign in. 5 Because they may have a deposit in any of our departments, but 6 we don't know it until they get there, so -- and also, you 7 know, if they lost it between us and our -- and Mindy's 8 office, there's no way to prove that they had it or didn't 9 have it. So -- for our department, so if we got blamed. So, 10 if they signed a log, it would show that the deposit actually 11 reached our department, and if they -- I don't know now if the 12 deposit is signed both by the clerk and by the person bringing 13 it. That also needs to be done. Daily deposits, to me, are 14 an essential thing. I've talked to a lot of county auditors 15 that I know since I've been here, and I'd like to see that be 16 a policy that's in place, maybe except for outlying areas 17 where it would be very difficult; we'd have a little bit 18 longer time frame there. And I think if we -- what we don't 19 have right now is, we don't have a policy in place. It's my 20 understanding we can't force everybody to do it, but if we 21 have a policy that shows this is the -- the best way for 22 internal control to keep account of our cash, then that gives 23 us a guide. And if we have a guide out there and someone's 24 not following it, it gives us more of an indication that 25 they're not doing what they need to do. 7-23-07 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me interrupt you for just a 2 moment on that issue, before I forget it. You mentioned that 3 we can't require everybody. If we adopt a policy on financial 4 matters as part of our budget in our fiscal oversight 5 responsibility, it occurs to me that maybe we can require 6 everybody to follow this policy. I realize in a lot of 7 situations, we get into the issue of independently elected 8 officials, but we're talking about implementation of -- of the 9 budgetary process, and if that's going to be an issue, I'd 10 like to know about it. And maybe the County Attorney can take 11 a look at that. 12 MS. HARGIS: Okay. That's my experience. I don't 13 know, but I would think that that would be one good thing that 14 you put into place. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm sorry, go ahead. 16 MS. HARGIS: The other thing just has to do with 17 investing. I would like to make a suggestion there as far 18 as -- as -- to retain a firm, one of which I have in mind, and 19 have them assist us in making our investments, get those 20 laddered out there. We're only using an overnight system 21 right now. We're not earning the money that we need to earn. 22 I think we could probably -- and I'm taking -- I know we can 23 double it. I'm sure we can probably do much, much better than 24 that, but we need to keep that money moving. We need to keep 25 it laddered so that we're constantly making a safe amount of 7-23-07 92 1 interest, and also that we -- you're in compliance with the 2 Public Funds Investment Act. And we need -- we need to 3 rewrite your -- your investment policy. The last time you 4 rewrote it was in 1999, and there have been a lot of changes 5 since 1999. Every two years, the Legislature changes it just 6 a little bit. That requires it, or the banking industry will 7 make a change, and you will need to write that into your 8 policy. 9 I have a draft. Mindy has looked at the draft, and 10 as soon as we get it tweaked, I'm going to get the draft to 11 you so that you can do that. You're supposed to annually 12 review your policy. You're not -- you don't have to change 13 it. If there's no Legislative changes, there's no banking 14 requirements that you want to change, you don't have to change 15 it, but you annually review it. You put it on your agenda; 16 you kind of go through it. If you don't have any changes, at 17 least then the State says you've annually reviewed it. But 18 the state law says you will annually review your investment 19 policy. There's two reasons for that. One is that you're 20 aware of your policy, because if you have new -- new 21 officials -- for instance, Mr. Oehler, this is your first 22 year. You've probably not seen it. So, it gives every 23 official that opportunity within that one year to look at that 24 document. Also, you -- along with that document, quarterly 25 you get statements so that you know what kind of investments 7-23-07 93 1 that you have. Because when the big mess in 1992 occurred 2 in -- actually in California, that caused us to have to write 3 the Public Fund Investment Act. The officials didn't know 4 what their investments were, and they were using reverse 5 reverse reverse repo's, and so they lost a lot of money in 6 Orange County because of that. So, this gives you the 7 opportunity to look to make sure that those agree with what 8 you want. 9 And my big thing is, you know, first of all, safety; 10 second of all, liquidity, and then we worry about the interest 11 rate. But I do think we can safely earn a better rate of 12 interest on our money. And besides, the interest rates are 13 going up. Doing what you're doing now a year and a half ago, 14 it wouldn't have made any difference, but -- 'cause you were 15 running a half a percent or a percent; there wasn't any 16 difference. But now you're earning 5, and it's going up, so 17 we need to get into the market and invest in safe documents. 18 And that's all I have in my -- in my policy. Those are a few 19 things. That actually is an internal control document, so 20 those are just the kind of things that we don't have in place. 21 And so, legitimately, we should, you know, probably be written 22 up for that. So, that's kind of where I'm at. Again, if you 23 want me to do it, I really do need to get out there and find 24 out. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a -- I have a few 7-23-07 94 1 things I'd like to mention. It seems that we have had some -- 2 some questions raised over the past year or two dealing with 3 an elected official's department, and I don't know exactly how 4 many years we might need to go back and have a forensic audit 5 done of the books. I don't have any idea how much that might 6 cost, how many firms would do that, but I don't believe at the 7 present time that we can go forward without going back at some 8 point, go back several years. And I know it's going to be 9 expensive, but to prove that something was wrong or something 10 was exactly done right is my intent. But the general public 11 is -- is feeling like -- at least from the ones I talk to -- 12 that we need to go back and make sure that what we have today 13 is what we should have had today, and that there has not been 14 fraud committed and taxpayer funds that are not accounted for. 15 And I am not real strong in support of keeping the local firm 16 at this time. Whether it be their fault or not their fault, 17 or whoever -- you know, it's immaterial. 18 Things have evidently transpired -- I think there's 19 a lot of documentation that will support that there have been 20 problems, and I'm not willing to go forward with the same 21 firm, I don't believe, at this time. Because they've been 22 here a long time, and I believe we do need a new firm. I know 23 it's going to put you in a -- in a bad predicament because of 24 you being so new, but I feel we must do a detailed check into 25 past -- at least the past three years to see if funds that 7-23-07 95 1 should have been deposited were, and funds were expended on 2 expenditures that were legal, and that funds were applied 3 appropriately. And to my knowledge today, and what I've seen 4 in some documentation, I don't believe that what we have today 5 is what we should have. And I don't know of any way to prove 6 that up unless we -- unless we authorize a prior year's audit 7 from a firm that does those kind of audits. You tell me what 8 you think. 9 MS. HARGIS: I have -- you know, after spending 30 10 years in Montgomery County and living through a lot of theirs, 11 I can -- the hospital district there had a situation very 12 similar to this, and they ended up hiring a forensic auditor, 13 and it cost about $100,000. And, as I recall, they didn't 14 really find that much. They're very expensive. Unless we 15 really, you know, feel that we need to, I don't know that the 16 audit would prove enough money, I think, you know, that was 17 taken, because of the -- I still think you have enough 18 internal controls in place that not a large amount could have 19 been taken. Now, I may be wrong, 'cause I haven't seen 20 everything that you have seen. But they're very expensive, 21 and that was several years ago. We would probably have to go 22 to one of the big four firms to do it, because I think they're 23 one of the specialists in that, and I could get you a cost on 24 that. If -- if that's what y'all want me to do, I mean, we 25 can do it. Now, it's -- unfortunately, you know, it's very 7-23-07 96 1 time-consuming. It will take a great amount of time. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could we make that part of the 3 proposal to a new auditing firm? 4 MS. HARGIS: They like to make it as two separate 5 audits. Because, again, a financial audit is -- is totally 6 different. A forensic audit is totally different. And, 7 generally speaking, they would probably want to do them 8 totally separately. This -- this document can be done in the 9 normal course of -- but they probably have a different team. 10 They might come out at the same time, but they'd have a 11 different team working on that than -- than the ones they have 12 working on this. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Would there be an advantage to 14 having the same firm doing that, doing both things? 15 MS. HARGIS: It would just -- it would depend. It 16 would just depend. I don't know, because, again, they'd 17 probably use a different team. I know that Deloitte has an 18 office in San Antonio, and I know their head auditor. More 19 than likely, they'd send out two totally different teams. 20 That wouldn't -- because the forensic people are taught 21 differently. They -- they're really taught differently to 22 look for different things. They're trained to look for the 23 forensic type situation, and the financial people just -- I 24 mean, again, we're all trained to look for fraud, but because 25 fraud has become a bigger element of the financial system 7-23-07 97 1 within the last, I would say, 15 years, really, there's a new 2 association called the Fraud Association, and they actually 3 train CPA's, and they're actually getting certificates for 4 that type of auditing. So, it's a totally different type of 5 auditing. And because they're going to -- they zero in on 6 things, and their scope is narrow, because they're going to 7 narrow in on just specific things. So, they might give us 8 economy of scale, but if they use different teams, they're 9 not. In fact, I would almost at that point say no, we don't 10 want the same firm, because then if -- if they gave us a clean 11 here and they didn't here, you know -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- at this point, you 14 probably have not spent enough time to look at all our current 15 internal controls and what was in place for the last couple of 16 years. After you look at that, can you give an evaluation on 17 what Bruce is talking about? I mean, it appears to me that 18 we're -- some of the areas that we've realized we didn't have 19 enough control have made it very difficult to look back and 20 see what happened, 'cause we know there's -- there's not the 21 documentation and the paper trail and the cross-checks to be 22 able to know for sure. And, I mean, I'm in favor of doing the 23 audit if it -- if we can prove something, but if the auditor's 24 just going to come back and say, "We can't tell because you 25 didn't have the internal controls there," well, I think we 7-23-07 98 1 already know that. 2 MS. HARGIS: Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And so, I mean, a little bit of 4 insight on that, I think, would be real helpful in going 5 forward on the forensic audit. If it would be valuable, yes, 6 it's worth spending the money on. But if it's not, I mean -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, and we can do that any time. We 8 just need to budget a number for it. But we could have this 9 audit be -- be done, and that would give me a couple of months 10 to get my feet on the ground, and then if I still feel like 11 that needs to be done, then I can make that recommendation to 12 you. I'd like to -- to do a little bit of it myself. And I'm 13 trying to learn just my job right now, and then I can do that. 14 But -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I wanted to hear. 16 MS. HARGIS: I've done -- I've done a little bit of 17 that. We -- you know, I mean, 'cause of all my years of 18 experience, it's easier for me sometimes to see that than it 19 is for somebody else. And you -- you know, something will 20 just spur you on to where you really kind of go down that 21 path. Now, the -- I did talk to the current audit firm about 22 your concerns, and he said that some things were written up as 23 long as four years ago, and they didn't necessarily see those 24 things put into place. The problem with the financial audit 25 is that the auditors can make a recommendation to you, but if 7-23-07 99 1 you don't do that, then there's really not a whole lot. Then 2 they just kind of keep writing you up. And some of your -- 3 for instance, like, in a single audit, which is a good example 4 of that, a single audit is required on all your grants. It 5 goes to the federal government; it's required if you get more 6 than $500,000 of federal money, whether a pass-through from 7 the state or whatever. 8 And what they have in those audits is, they have a 9 question as to what you've done wrong. It's kind of a 10 question that you have to answer, and so then you answer it 11 the following year -- or you have so much time to answer it, 12 and then the federal government will come back. And that's 13 really the only type of audit I've seen that really requires 14 an entity to answer those questions. Now, they can make 15 suggestions, but one of the things that GASB has done because 16 of Enron is that auditors can't come back in and -- and help 17 you manage that, because then they lose their independence, 18 and therefore it's not an audit any more. So, a lot of 19 places -- and I -- you know, I don't recommend it here, 20 because I think we're small, but, for instance, in Abilene, 21 what they did is they hired one of the CPA's from the audit 22 firm that was working with them to be an internal auditor, 23 that did nothing but that, to make sure things were in place. 24 And I think that's kind of -- you know, kind of been our 25 function. But I think that, you know, a small staff -- and 7-23-07 100 1 it's a little bit difficult, and I think that they did the 2 best they could under the circumstances. 3 I just -- you know, I really don't know enough about 4 all this. I mean, I know what I read in the paper, and that's 5 about it. So, again, I'll do what you need for me to do, but 6 if -- if someone wants to provide me with more documentation, 7 then I'll try to see what I can do with it and see if the -- 8 if there is enough money that we would recoup to warrant us to 9 spend that kind of money. 'Cause I will guarantee you, you 10 will spend three times what an annual audit is, and there's no 11 doubt in my mind. You're not -- forensic audits, those guys 12 come in at 100,000, 'cause they know they're going to spend 13 that kind of time. They also have a huge liability that they 14 -- because, you know, basically you're accusing someone of a 15 crime, and so they have to be able to stand behind whatever 16 they do, so they charge a lot of money for that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My interest is more in 18 keeping with going forward and strengthening the internal 19 controls so that we know that cash is properly handled and 20 accounted for, and also expanding and strengthening the letter 21 of engagement. I think that's important. We need to make 22 certain a letter of engagement covers the things that we 23 believe are deficient and take care of that. Those are the 24 two I like. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue before us today is 7-23-07 101 1 what we do about our annual '06-'07 audit, whether we elect to 2 authorize an RFQ for new proposals, or -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- go forward with our existing 5 outside auditor. Or possibly a middle ground would be to have 6 Ms. Hargis TWX and see how many -- how many firms that do 7 outside governmental audits would be available to -- to do our 8 audit, you know, if -- if there are any appreciable amount of 9 them available. She seems to be concerned about the time 10 frame and -- and the number that are already booked up for 11 this particular year's audit. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, are we required by law 13 to go out for an RFP? Just reading the words, "authorize RFP 14 as required." 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: RFQ, should be. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or RFQ. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: RFQ. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we're changing. I think 19 we are. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. We can just renew 22 from year to year with the present one that's been here 14 23 years, which is a long time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no question, from what 7-23-07 102 1 I'm hearing, we need to change. It's just whether we change 2 right now or we change in January. I mean, and I -- I've 3 spent quite a bit of time with Ms. Hargis on this topic. 4 There's merits in doing it both ways. From what I can see, 5 there's advantages to waiting and there's advantages to doing 6 it right now. I mean, I think we need to make a change, but 7 when we do it is not as critical to me. I think one of the 8 possible advantages to waiting a little bit is then we're 9 going to be auditing the changes that are made. I mean, if 10 Ms. Hargis comes up with some recommendations, and then we go 11 out for an audit after those are in place, then we're auditing 12 to make sure we've done it right. If we're going to do it 13 hand-in-hand, we may end up with the same kind of problem we 14 have, I think, now with the same firm doing it so long. You 15 don't -- or we don't take, you know, seriously -- I think they 16 did report back some of the problems, and we didn't act on 17 them, and I think this probably won't happen again, but I 18 think it's a -- you know, it's -- you're getting a double 19 audit, so to speak, if we wait until January to go out for the 20 '07 to '08 audit. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think in fairness to 22 Ms. Hargis, too, she wants the opportunity to -- to implement 23 some new policies in order to establish that, you know, she 24 has the experience and capability, and to prove her mettle, as 25 it were, to improve the situation. And I certainly think 7-23-07 103 1 she's deserving of that opportunity. It also occurs to me 2 that if she's given some more specific information with regard 3 to the concerns that you've had expressed to you, Commissioner 4 Oehler, that she might be able to do some preliminary review 5 and possibly ascertain whether or not our -- our recordkeeping 6 in those particular areas is so lacking that, you know, the 7 likelihood that any forensic type audit going back would -- 8 would be of much value, at least preliminarily, it would give 9 her that opportunity also. That's what I heard. Did I miss 10 something, Ms. Hargis? 11 MS. HARGIS: No. No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, would the agenda item 14 as styled -- would it allow us to act on a motion that would 15 instruct the Auditor to draft an expanded letter of engagement 16 and bring it back to the Court for discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- I don't want to 18 speak for Ms. Hargis. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Definitely would, sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can do that, but I 21 think we need to pretty much give Ms. Hargis the direction 22 today as to if we're going -- if that's for expanded scope for 23 January or expanded scope for today, because the time is 24 running from the audit standpoint for '06-'07. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. My -- my 7-23-07 104 1 suggestion would actually be not to do the -- authorize a new 2 RFQ, but to draft an expanded letter of engagement, which 3 assumes that we'll be giving it to the same external auditor 4 for the one year additional that Ms. Hargis has requested. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay, I see what you're 6 saying. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, my understanding on the 8 expanded scope of engagement, you were looking forward to a 9 new outside independent as opposed to -- to the existing on a 10 renewal basis. Maybe I didn't -- 11 MS. HARGIS: No, I would want to expand the 12 engagement letter with either one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Either one? Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: Either. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I would offer a 16 motion, Judge, that the Court authorize Ms. Hargis to draft an 17 expanded letter of -- scope of engagement letter -- that's 18 what it is, scope of engagement letter -- and return it to the 19 Court for consideration and discussion and approval, with 20 the -- with the idea being to retain the existing auditor for 21 one more year. Rephrase that any way you want to, Judge. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 25 question or discussion? All in favor of that motion, signify 7-23-07 105 1 by raising your right hand. 2 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.) 5 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 7 to Item 19; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 8 adopt a new policy and fee schedule for the Kerr County 9 Exhibition Center and rescind all previous orders pertaining 10 to such. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One page or more than one 12 page? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is this? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait 15 a minute. What do you got? 16 MS. HYDE: So that you can put them side-by-side, 17 that's the old rates. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got Option 2, Option 2, 19 Option 2. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I got a whole bunch of -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The other one's coming. 22 MS. HYDE: The other one's right behind it so that 23 you can put it side-by-side. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here it comes. Option 1, I 25 guess, is existing, right? 7-23-07 106 1 MS. HYDE: This is existing. It's very hard to 2 read, I know, but that's the only copy we've got. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have an extra one for 4 a member of the audience? 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Judge has seven or eight 7 sets. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: How many do you need? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just like a lawyer, isn't he? 10 You send a piece of paper by him and he'll grab it. 11 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There's another set. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 14 MS. HYDE: Give it to the lady in the maroon? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right there. 16 MS. HYDE: One more for the -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here you go. 18 MS. HYDE: Thanks. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got to do everything. 20 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're in a good spot. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This auditing thing put me to 23 sleep. Can I ask a question? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ask all the questions you 25 want. 7-23-07 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you so much. On the -- 2 on this Option 2, which is today's deal, the heading is Local 3 Commercial and Nonlocal Commercial, and over here -- do 4 we retain those words, or is everything one number? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's one number, then a 6 percentage reduction off of one number, based on if you want 7 to go with a -- give discounts to various entities. We 8 currently have three lists of rates. We're going to one list 9 of rates, and then you just take a -- if you want to give a 10 nonprofit 50 percent reduction, we'll just -- the rate's the 11 same; they just get a reduction off the bottom line of 12 50 percent. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is new? Is this one 14 the new one? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the new one. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the new one. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rather than keep track of three 19 different rates, I'd rather say for the Ag Barn -- instead of 20 having 400 -- can't read it -- 400, 800, and 400, we're just 21 saying it's going to be 600. And then if we want to give a 22 discount off of that, we can to certain entities. It 23 simplifies it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see that. Now, are 25 you telling me that you're not going to give a discount for 7-23-07 108 1 all nonprofits? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not saying anything. That's 3 not -- this is just the rates right now. Then we figure out 4 how we're going to give discounts. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. I didn't mean 6 to get off into too much of that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Bruce -- I've mentioned to 8 Bruce a little bit earlier, you know, this is the big topic to 9 tackle, and it's not easy. It may be better to put it as a 10 workshop so we can just focus on it for a couple of -- for an 11 hour or so, and along with the whole -- add with that the 12 whole leasing component. And we just put it on the agenda 13 'cause we said we were going to put it on the agenda. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good reason. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And we -- and I think the 17 background work's done. I think we have the information; now 18 it's time for us to make a decision. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, just help me with 20 Line 1, Indoor Arena. One, two, or three days rental, right? 21 And I don't know what quantity, but -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's two days. That would 23 be a two-day rental quantity. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two-day. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And then the fixed rate's 7-23-07 109 1 1,600 and the cost will be 1,200. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For those two days. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Come on down the list, and it 4 will tell you. There's zeros till you get down to setup and 5 take-down fee of $300. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You come on down to cleanup 8 deposit, another 300. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that makes the total 11 $1,800, what they're going to owe for that event. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're going to pay the 14 900 up front as a deposit. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Without discount -- and no 17 discount. 18 MS. HYDE: This would be for someone -- like, if Eva 19 Hyde was going to rent it for a hog-yelling contest. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hog calling. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or a roping, yes, for a 22 private -- for a private company. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going make some money. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To put on a private roping for 25 money. 7-23-07 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be this kind of a 3 charge. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. And if you are a 5 private roper and you're going to do several events through 6 the year, your 900 was put up, and that 900 will just go ahead 7 and carry through with you through the year. Did I read that 8 the other day somewhere in -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's pretty much 10 what you read. It carries on from one event to the next. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just keeps rolling. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The deposit does. 13 MS. HYDE: It's on Page 2. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rollover. 15 MS. HYDE: Page 2. I finally got the numbers to do 16 right. Number 8. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got them all on the right 18 line. 19 MS. HYDE: Yeah. Commissioner Letz and Commissioner 20 Williams helped me -- helped educate me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, before we take any final 22 action on this, I think it -- I would prefer to spend some 23 time reviewing it and digesting it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Get questions answered that I might 7-23-07 111 1 have as a result of reviewing it. I'm not sure we are in a 2 position to really -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds good. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- take any final today. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you, Judge. We 6 need to have a workshop, talk about it and digest it and all 7 that good stuff. Should we not also, in addition to this, 8 because the proposed rates are going up pretty good -- and I 9 like what I see, but should we not also address the 10 longstanding contracts with the County -- between the County 11 and the Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show and have 12 that all as a package? Because that means -- if these go up, 13 that means under the current situation, we're going to be -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's one of those 15 things that does need to be addressed. Commissioner Baldwin 16 is volunteering to go out and negotiate for us. I can see it 17 in his eyes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it definitely needs to 19 be addressed. I think one can be -- this can be implemented 20 without doing that, but that can't sit over there too much 21 longer. It needs to be, you know, either reduced or 22 eliminated. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the latter option. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I agree. Well, it's 25 just not fair for us to continue to provide more service and 7-23-07 112 1 still give them a piece of the action whenever they actually 2 don't really participate any more in the maintenance and 3 operation of that facility. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. Schedule 6 a day for a workshop? 7 MS. HANSON: I have one question. What's the 8 difference in the concession stand and the catering deposit? 9 MS. HYDE: Want me to answer that? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Concession is whenever 11 somebody wants to rent that to use it, -- 12 MS. HANSON: That kitchen. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- serve food out of and 14 prepare food. And catering is when people come in and cater 15 an event of so many people. And what they do is, it's not -- 16 it's -- the money is to be spent for all the trash that's 17 generated, basically, by that caterer. You don't think about 18 the dumpsters full when you have an event that has 500 to 700 19 people. The caterer comes in with all of this stuff, and he 20 or she sells their product and gets all the money for it, and 21 then they're gone, and the trash remains. 22 MS. HANSON: I can witness the trash remains, 23 because last year, the -- the event prior to our event dumped 24 all their leftover beans out by the parking lot, and it was 25 nasty. 7-23-07 113 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just one of the reasons 2 we need to start charging caterers, -- 3 MS. HANSON: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- basically, to cater food 5 out there, because they leave -- 6 MS. HANSON: Don't clean up after themselves. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the catering fee cover, 8 like, during the stock show, the funnel cake people and all 9 these other people that set up shop, or -- and at the fair, 10 they set up their little booths around the grounds? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hadn't thought about that. 12 That's something else that could be brought -- you know, 13 brought out. 14 MS. HYDE: What we talked about a lot, though, on 15 the cleanup, and that's why we wrote down here in bold that 16 the cleanup deposit right now is -- is expected by most folks 17 to be returned in full, and you asked me to look at it. In my 18 opinion, we need to stop that. If they clean up, then 19 absolutely. But if we're sending people out there and 20 spending man hours to clean it all up, then I don't think they 21 should be refunded a cleanup fee -- deposit, which is what 22 currently happens. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just like -- here, I'll give 24 you one for-instance. Coming up in September, after the big 25 stock show fundraiser, there's going to be -- Hill Country 7-23-07 114 1 Telephone is going to be there with 900 to 1,000 people, and 2 that meal will be catered. The caterer doesn't bring his own 3 trash cans; they use our trash cans, and generate -- either 4 our people or the community service people wind up picking all 5 that up and putting it in the dumpster, and the County winds 6 up paying for the dump fee on it, and it's not right. I don't 7 believe it's right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- you're absolutely 9 right. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to change it to 11 reflect that, you know, they're charges that go with cleanup 12 and disposal of garbage. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the issue raised about, for 14 example, funnel cake, it looks like we need to have an entry 15 there for a food vendor use, because that generates -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They will also. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- trash. They may be using power. 18 Who knows what all they're going to be doing. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're also making a 20 profit, or they're attempting to make a profit from sales, 21 which is commercial. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just out of curiosity, when 23 Kerr County Fair takes place, and after the carnival and all 24 those outside vendors move out, are we the ones that pick up 25 the trash? 7-23-07 115 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From what I know, that's the 3 case. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but most events, we're the 5 ones -- I mean, it's -- the exception would be when we don't 6 pick up the trash. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't think of any. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know of any time the 10 trash isn't picked up by our workers and disposed of, and paid 11 for by Kerr County. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I kind of thought that was 13 the answer. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it is, I'd like for whoever 15 that is to come forward and tell us about it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the last page, it's kind of 17 the breakdown of who -- our current list. This is by court 18 order, who has nonprofit status and who doesn't. We might 19 want to look at that prior to the workshop, if that's what -- 20 the direction we're going to go. And if anybody wants, I can 21 hand out -- we have, going back three years, exactly who has 22 used the facility, what days, and how much money we received. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My goodness. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is, you know -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not nearly enough income, is 7-23-07 116 1 all I can say. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Income looks -- I don't think we 3 were charging as aggressively as we probably should have been 4 for some of the various usages, and I think it's kind of gone 5 to Bruce and Eva to help a lot of this. And, you know, we've 6 gone through a lot of it, and our controls probably weren't as 7 strong as they're about to be. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Give us an opportunity to -- 9 to review those. You had a question, ma'am? 10 MS. HANSON: One more. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to need your name and 12 address, please. 13 MS. HANSON: Oh, certainly, since I've been asking 14 questions. I'm Caroline Hanson, and I live at 591 Scenic 15 Valley Road. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In precinct number? 17 MS. HANSON: One. Yes. And, thanks to Commissioner 18 Baldwin, he passed me back some of this so I can ask some 19 questions. And I don't understand what "mid until 6 per hour" 20 means. 21 MS. HYDE: Midnight until 6 a.m. Midnight until 22 6 a.m. is -- yeah, 0600. 23 MS. HANSON: Okay, so if we stayed all night. What 24 about the people in the R.V.'s that stay all night? 25 MS. HYDE: There shouldn't be R.V. parking in the 7-23-07 117 1 lot. Is there? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have a few that come. 3 MS. HANSON: There are spaces back there. And 4 you -- you've got -- where did I see it? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: $15 electrical hookup. 6 MS. HANSON: Yeah, $15 for the electrical hookup. 7 It has been 10, but it's going to 15. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't have sewer that goes 9 with that; it's just water and electricity. 10 MS. HANSON: And -- but I'm not even sure that it's 11 that much water, you know. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably not. Should be city 13 water, though. 14 MS. HANSON: There was -- as I remember it, there 15 was one hookup that had a faucet by it, by the gate into the 16 polo field, and none of the rest of them do along that line. 17 So, when I do the dog show, I just offer electricity only, and 18 if they want more, then I recommend the Kerrville-Schreiner 19 Park. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's one of the reasons why 21 there's not more there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. HANSON: Well, when I get through trying to look 24 at this, I may have more questions. Thank you for your time. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: There will be an opportunity later. 7-23-07 118 1 Thank you. Okay, let's move on to the next item. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to set -- Judge, 3 set the workshop? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, let's do. Let's 5 just -- so we can -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to move forward. 7 We've been putting this off for about three months. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next Monday, 1 a.m.? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about next Wednesday after 12 our -- it'll make it all day long for the budget workshop, but 13 that's all right. Are we going to do it? 14 MS. HYDE: August 1st? 15 MS. HANSON: I do have one more question. The 16 policy that was written when Glenn Holekamp was here, that 17 stated the priorities, and I -- you know, like reoccurring 18 multi-day events tied to a national organization had a higher 19 priority for getting their reoccurring dates and things like 20 that. Will that policy be changed, or will it stay -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's changed. 22 MS. HANSON: It's going to change? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's also subject to discussion in 24 the workshop and further action of the Court. 25 MS. HANSON: Okay. 7-23-07 119 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it probably -- everything 2 related to it -- fees, policies, everything -- is probably 3 subject to change. 4 MS. HANSON: Is that -- that makes my life very 5 difficult trying to deal with the national organization and 6 with the -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't say it will change; I'm 8 saying that -- I mean, some of those may, but that whole 9 overall policy, some of the things will stay the same in it, 10 but it's one document that's going come out on how that place 11 is going to be operated. 12 MS. HANSON: Okay, that's fine. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about August the 1st? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That next Wednesday. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Wednesday week. Not -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Not day after tomorrow. What time do 19 you want to schedule it for, 1:30? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30 or 2:00. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 2:00? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2:00. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that a motion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-23-07 120 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second to set a 5 workshop on the policy and fee schedule for Kerr County 6 Exhibition Center on August 1st, '07, at 2 p.m. Any further 7 question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Also to maybe include the 9 future of the booking personnel. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, booking procedures. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, okay, booking 12 procedures. That's -- that would really be an item for -- 13 MS. HYDE: Booking procedures and staffing? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Staffing. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That'll work. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have a budget workshop 19 that morning? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Sheriff. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Get some cheese in here. Any further 23 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 24 by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7-23-07 121 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 20; 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 5 conveyance of Mountain Home TexDOT property to Mountain Home 6 Fire Department with reverter if property ceases to be used 7 for fire department purposes and long-term lease back by Kerr 8 County of such property by Kerr County for Road and Bridge or 9 other purposes. Subsequent to this matter being authorized to 10 be placed on the agenda, Commissioner Oehler and I got some 11 legal input from the County Attorney, and I don't see it 12 necessary to go forward with that agenda item. Do you, 13 Mr. Oehler? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, not at all. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. If no one else has 16 anything further to offer, we'll go with Item 21; consider, 17 discuss, take appropriate action to establish a fund to 18 provide condolences or get-well remembrances for Kerr County 19 employees and their immediate family members. 20 MS. HYDE: We've had several people that have been 21 out for long periods of time that are sick, and we've had some 22 folks that have passed away. And whenever that happens, there 23 tends to be -- who sends flowers? Who's going to send a card? 24 The elected officials and department -- excuse me, the 25 department heads asked that maybe we put something together 7-23-07 122 1 where we have a fund that everyone chips in a few bucks, and 2 that way we can send out cards to employees, and it's from 3 everyone here at the county, not just one or two people. 4 Mindy has said that she would be the Treasurer of that. It's 5 not Kerr County funds. It would be donations, and all be done 6 on the up-and-up, but we would know how much is there at any 7 given time. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not mandatory. 9 MS. HYDE: It's not mandatory. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not mandatory and not tax 11 dollars. 12 MS. HYDE: Sorry? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not tax dollars. 14 MS. HYDE: Absolutely not. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I have no problem with 16 that. So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 19 of the fund system as indicated. Any question or discussion? 20 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 21 hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 22; 7-23-07 123 1 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to declare 40 2 horse stalls surplus and set time -- set date to put them up 3 for auction. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me come up -- to approve 5 this, we need to come up with a date. And, Rex, what is the 6 time frame we need to advertise this prior to an auction? 7 MR. EMERSON: I think it's 30 days. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thirty days? Advertise in the 9 newspaper, and -- what, at least twice? 10 MR. EMERSON: I believe so, on surplus property. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we declare 40 12 horse stalls surplus at the Exhibition Center, and that they 13 be placed for auction -- what would be 30 days after today? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to do it on Saturday? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do it on a Saturday, yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Be about the 25th of August. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that we set auctions -- 19 that they be auctioned to the public on the 25th of August at 20 9 a.m. in the morning. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They'll be conducting a live 22 auction? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. I'll just -- we'll just 24 be there and take bids from whoever wants to bid on them. And 25 they are f.o.b. the Exhibition Center. 7-23-07 124 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Buying as-is. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As-is, where-is. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Cash and carry. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As-is, where-are. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No credit cards. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: And the checks should be made payable 8 to Kerr County Treasurer. Ask them to please not put an 9 individual's name or leave it blank. Not a good thing. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't put my name on it, I 11 can tell you that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to have -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I believe it will be -- if 14 you can be there that day -- 15 MS. WILLIAMS: That will work. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- to take those checks, we'll 17 cover all the bases we cover. 18 MS. HYDE: She wants Jody to help her. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jody can be a witness. 20 MS. GRINSTEAD: The 30-day notice, we've got to keep 21 in mind, we've got to get this information to the newspapers. 22 I don't know what their cutoff is. 23 MS. HYDE: 10 o'clock. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Irene, that office is 25 tomorrow at noon. And the Times, I'm not sure when they are 7-23-07 125 1 -- there isn't anybody here from the Times; that's not 2 unusual. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the 30 days run from 4 the date we act on it today or the date of publication? 5 MR. EMERSON: I don't have the statute in front of 6 me; I don't know. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think publication. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we better put it off 9 till the first Saturday in September. In September, first 10 Saturday. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Labor Day. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Labor Day weekend. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second Saturday, unless there's 14 a rush. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's not a rush that I know 16 of. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be 9/8? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just trying to get it done. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9/8. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Gives plenty of time. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Any question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many do we have out there 25 total? 7-23-07 126 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know exactly the 2 total. The thing is, if you do them as four sides, one stall, 3 you have more -- you don't get very many stalls that way, 4 where if you line them up -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You get more. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- you get more stalls out of 7 them. So, this is 40 four-sided stalls, and we do -- Tim 8 tells me we have more than that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many are we keeping? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have 10 set up right now 11 under the back awning of the indoor arena. And there will be 12 some others, but right now they have all been removed and 13 they've all been neatly stacked waiting on auction. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 16 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 23; 21 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on proposal 22 from Carolina Biological Supply Company to purchase from Kerr 23 County remains of euthanized animals for scientific, research, 24 education, and/or other similar purposes. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This -- this just came to my 7-23-07 127 1 attention last week. Janie called me about it, and she's now 2 put it on the agenda, and I'll let her explain it. 3 MS. ROMAN: Well, basically, Carolina Biological 4 Supply Company is a company that supplies preserved specimens 5 to schools, kindergarten through college. They're used for 6 educational purposes. We would be using nothing but cats, no 7 dogs. They are -- they do carry a Class B dealer's license 8 through U.S.D.A., and there should be a copy in your packet. 9 This company would pay approximately $3 per -- per specimen, 10 and they would provide a freezer for us. They would provide 11 the bags. Anything that -- that we may need, they're willing 12 to provide for us. They would pick up one to two times a 13 month. And they do have a company out of Brownsville that -- 14 or they have an office in Brownsville, excuse me, that would 15 be picking up. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The other option on these -- on these 17 particular euthanized animals would be disposal in the 18 landfill? 19 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For which we would pay the 21 appropriate fee? 22 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you've -- 24 MS. ROMAN: Well -- pardon me. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 7-23-07 128 1 MS. ROMAN: At the moment, we're not -- we're not 2 being charged by the landfill to dispose of our dead animals. 3 However, their policy will be changing, from what I 4 understand, next year, and we will have to start paying again. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- and you've checked and 6 are comfortable this is a legitimate company? We're not going 7 to end up with our names in the paper somewhere for doing 8 something with cats? 9 MS. ROMAN: Yes, I did check. Dr. -- actually, 10 Dr. Tull, our regional veterinarian out of Uvalde, she's the 11 one that told me about this, and she called them and had them 12 come over and talk to us. They came in also and talked to 13 Ms. Hyde about it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about the 15 entire animal cadaver, not -- we're not harvesting animal body 16 parts, right? 17 MS. ROMAN: Right. Correct. 18 MS. HYDE: This -- remember what you did when you 19 were a kid when you dissected the pig in biology class? Or 20 now they have cats -- they use cats and pigs for secondary -- 21 second-class of biology. 22 MS. ROMAN: When I took my euthanasia course, that's 23 what we used. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I never got past the frog. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 7-23-07 129 1 MS. ROMAN: I mean, like the Judge said, currently 2 we're disposing of them in the -- in the landfill. This would 3 cut back on our cost on the bags that we use to dispose of 4 them at the landfill, and this would bring in revenue. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Janie, if, two months down 6 the road, you decide for some reason that you don't enjoy 7 doing this kind of thing, can you -- can we stop it? 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. It's in the contract. 9 MS. ROMAN: I haven't read the whole contract, 10 but -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you read it? 12 MR. EMERSON: I have, and it's in there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it groovy? 14 MR. EMERSON: One of the most simplistic contracts 15 you've ever seen. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We love them, don't we? I 17 move for approval. Go ahead. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Any further discussion or comment? All in favor of 21 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any member 7-23-07 130 1 of the Court have anything to consider in executive or closed 2 session? 3 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If not, we'll move to Section IV of 5 the agenda, the payment of the bills. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 9 bills. 10 (Commissioner Letz left the courtroom.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or comment? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do want to point out -- 13 Tommy's fussed at me so much through the years, I'm finally 14 catching on here. But one thing that I've seen under the 15 J.P. 1 is cell phone that we've been talking about recently. 16 His cell phone bill was $300. So, I take a peek at the bill, 17 and it's for four or five months that he hadn't collected for 18 it, and he's collecting all at one time. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: This shows nine months, 9/06 to 6/07. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There it is right there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. Sometimes there 23 is an explanation for these things. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Speaking of telephone service, why is 25 it that we cannot have all of our offices out there at the law 7-23-07 131 1 enforcement location tied in? For example, J.P. 2, their -- 2 just their telephone bill is $140 for the month. There ought 3 to be a way to get around that -- that problem. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that multiple months or 5 just one month? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, just shows 7/07, Windstream. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Center Point still long 8 distance? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five Star is separate, I 11 think. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He asked if center Point is 13 still long distance. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I'm sorry, I 15 misunderstood your question. No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, Center Point's not. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. No, they're on the 18 county system on Center Point. 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Pardon? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're on the county system 21 on Center Point for long distance dialing, 'cause you put me 22 there. Yeah you did it, 'cause I dial my code to get -- 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, but it is long distance, right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And local is local. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 7-23-07 132 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, how much -- let's see. 2 Looking at J.P. 2, 140 for one month. Is that kind of how 3 much it is every month? Isn't that a little bit high? 4 (Commissioner Letz returned to the courtroom.) 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Depends on our usage. I mean, long 6 distance, of course, the base fee would be the same. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, J.P. 3 is 40. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it have something to do 9 with being on call or anything like that? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a separate line, and it's 12 apparently a commercial line, and I don't know whether there's 13 two lines that we're paying for. We need to try and figure 14 out a way to get all these things tied into our -- to our main 15 system so that we're not paying through the nose like that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The only other comment that I'd make 18 is that indigent health care was a whopper this month. Seven 19 -- what, 75,000 or so? Yeah, 72,4. Ouch. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: We're still below the 6 percent. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: We're still below the 6 percent. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Still money going out by the 25 bushel-full. 7-23-07 133 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there's a motion. 4 THE CLERK: Yes, we have a motion and a second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 6 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 12 Amendment Request 1. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 1 is for J.P. Precinct 1, to 14 transfer $68.44 from Miscellaneous to Conferences. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 19 or comment? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for his clerk. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 24 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7-23-07 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 4 Request 2. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Two is for the County Judge, to 6 transfer $90.69 from Conferences to Out-of-County Mileage. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 11 or comment? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it just seems to me like 13 you could charge less for that grape jelly jar you drive. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ain't that the truth? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You couldn't resist -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Such fantastic mileage. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Couldn't resist the "grape jelly jar" 18 comment. Any other questions or comments? All in favor of 19 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 24 Amendment Request 3. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Three is for the 198th District 7-23-07 135 1 Court, to transfer $1,008.78 from Jailer Salaries, with $15.55 2 to Office Supplies, and $993.23 to Civil Court-Appointed 3 Attorney line item. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) ( 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 13 Request 4. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Four is for the 216th District Court 15 to transfer $926.41 from Jailer Salaries, 125.46 to Office 16 Supplies and 598.50 to Civil Court-Appointed Attorney line 17 item, and 202.45 to Court Transcripts. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 7-23-07 136 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Budget Amendment 2 Request 5. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Five is for the Auditor's office, to 4 transfer $31.67 from Office Supplies to Books, Publications, 5 and Dues. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 9 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 10 by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Budget Amendment 15 Request 6. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Six is for Environmental Health, to 17 transfer 571.06 from Site Cleanup to Conferences. This is for 18 Mr. Shaver. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For who? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Mr. Shaver. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. I thought you said -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just asked who it was for. 23 I'll second the motion. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 25 question or discussion? 7-23-07 137 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. He -- is this the 2 conference where he had gone and gotten his certification? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it is. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments? Questions? All 6 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 11 Request 7. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Seven is for the County Attorney. 13 This is actually to correct a budget item that we misbudgeted 14 at the beginning of the year. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Damn. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: We had budgeted $33,900 for the 17 supplement that comes from the state to the County Attorney. 18 It actually -- it should have been $7,766 more than what we 19 budgeted, so this amendment actually is to increase the amount 20 that we -- that we take into revenue and increase the amount 21 of the supplement in order to pay him for that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 7-23-07 138 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that mean the County 7 Attorney is taking the Court out to lunch? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: At least. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds fine to me. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: He said he was buying. 11 MR. EMERSON: Just means the County Attorney can 12 quit having to duck. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request 8. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Eight is for Road and Bridge. This 15 is to increase -- or recognize the payment from Texas 16 Association of Counties for damage to a vehicle for $5,160.13. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 20 or comment? What vehicle was this? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: It was -- 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Asphalt distributor. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It was an asphalt distributor. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 25 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 7-23-07 139 1 right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Budget Amendment 6 Request 9. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Nine is for County Court at Law, to 8 transfer $240 from Master Court Appointments to Special County 9 Court at Law Judge. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 13 question or discussion? All if favor of the motion, signify 14 by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carried. Budget 19 Amendment Request 9 -- excuse me, Budget Amendment Request 10. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Ten is for Custodial and Grounds, to 21 transfer 79.25 from Utilities to Uniforms. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 7-23-07 140 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 6 Request 11. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Eleven is for the Hill 8 Country Youth Exhibition Center, to transfer 351.67 from 9 Utilities to Building and Grounds Maintenance. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion and second for 14 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 20 Amendment Request 12. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Twelve is for the County 22 Jail, to transfer 10,325.64 from Jailer Salaries, with 23 7,615.25 to Prisoner Medical, $2,080.39 to Operating Supplies, 24 and $630 to Employee Medical Exams. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7-23-07 141 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Questions or discussion? All in favor of the 4 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 9 Amendment Request 13. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Thirteen is for the Sheriff's 11 Department, to transfer 939.83 from Dispatchers' Salary, $180 12 to Employee Medical Exams, 333.66 to Office Supplies, and 13 426.17 to Radio Tower Lease. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did the lease go up or 15 something? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the -- I don't know how it ended 18 up with inadequate funds in there, but the lease is by 19 contract. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I thought. That 21 should be easy to budget for. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I think there could -- one of them 24 could be an escalating contract. I don't -- I don't remember 25 for sure, but seems like it's with -- 7-23-07 142 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Emily Harlan Mosty. Emily Harlan 2 Mosty; hers goes up every year. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to budget for that and 4 make it go up. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's an automatic 6 escalator in it? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe it is. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What precinct is that entire lease? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's it go to? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Elizabeth Harlan Mosty. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Two. You need to tell me about these 12 things. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe it's the Center Point one. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where all the Mostys 17 live. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Has to be. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where it is right there. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Getting their fair due. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Pardon? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I need a motion. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move that approval. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7-23-07 143 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget Amendment 7 Request 14. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 14 is for Constable, Precinct 9 1, to transfer $260 from Fuel line item to Telephone. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval. Any question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. Maybe -- 15 Commissioner Baldwin, Constable Billeiter does not use his 16 fuel allowance. He drives by far more than any other 17 constable, and he hasn't used any money. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure he does, but my 19 question is, he uses the phone a whole lot. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He uses the phone a lot. 21 Evidently, these must be -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's got shorter trips to make 23 than some of the ones out west. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's really underspent that 7-23-07 144 1 account. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He drives lots of miles. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to be sure. Maybe he 4 gets reimbursed for transporting prisoners or something. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't you give him one of those 6 Oklahoma credit cards? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Need to use that line item 8 next year, then. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah -- okay, no. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 12 by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget Amendment 17 Request 15. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Fifteen is for Human Resources, to 19 transfer $200 from Conferences to Telephone line item. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Any 24 question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Is this -- is this a 7-23-07 145 1 land line or is it a cell phone? Or -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 3 MS. HYDE: No, land. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Just land line. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Land line. And the same 6 thing back on Constable 1's, I guess. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it would be. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Further questions or discussion? All 10 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 15 Amendment Request 16. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Sixteen is for the County Auditor, 17 to transfer $450 from Conferences to Books, Publications, and 18 Dues, with a hand check payable to Kerrville Area Chamber of 19 Commerce for $450. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to include 23 hand check to Kerrville Area C.F.C. for $450. Any question or 24 discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it for? 7-23-07 146 1 MS. HARGIS: Leadership training. I had already 2 been accepted into the program. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Leadership Kerr County? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, good program. Any other 7 questions or comments? All in favor, signify by raising your 8 right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 13 Amendment Request 17. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Seventeen is -- is for Road and 15 Bridge, and it's to increase the budget to recognize the 16 proceeds from the sale of some of their surplus property, and 17 for some sales of some pipe and street signs. We're 18 increasing the budget for -- for Surplus Sales of $24,948.28, 19 and for Culvert Pipe Proceeds of $1,339.65, and Street Signs 20 -- excuse me -- Street Signs for $605. We're increasing 21 the -- the Lease Principal Payment line item for $17,622.98, 22 Capital Outlay of $7,325.30, and the Culvert Pipe and Bridges 23 line item for $1,339.65, and Traffic Signs and Control for 24 $605. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7-23-07 147 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 4 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 18. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Eighteen is also for Road and 11 Bridge. We had previously allocated some surplus sales to 12 Asphalts, Oils, and Emulsions for $11,365, and at the request 13 of Road and Bridge, we're moving that amount from Asphalts, 14 Oils, and Emulsions to Lease Payment for lease principal 15 payment. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What lease payment? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: The -- I think it's on the -- the -- 18 MS. WILLIAMS: This is the one that the Court 19 approved last court meeting, the additional payment for the 20 zipper. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That way that zipper will be paid 23 off. We're paying the third payment early. The second 24 payment will be October of this year, and it's clear then. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. There's two payments still 7-23-07 148 1 owing. We'll do this one in October, and it's done. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 THE CLERK: I need a motion. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 13 any more budget amendments? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Have any late bills? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. It's for H.S.B.C. 17 Business Solutions, which is Office Max, for $525.83. The 18 expense code would have been for Ag Extension. We -- we 19 discovered that we would have a late -- a late fee if we don't 20 pay it now, so we're requesting that we write a hand check for 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 25 of late bill and hand check to H.S.B.C. to Office Max for 7-23-07 149 1 $525.83. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I've been 7 presented with monthly reports from Constable, Precinct 2; 8 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, 9 Precinct 1; and amended report, District Clerk; activity 10 report for Justice Court of Kerr Precinct 2; Ag Extension 11 Office, May and June '07; Ag Extension Office, Family & 12 Consumer Affairs, June '07; County Clerk, general and trust 13 fund; Constable, Precinct 3; and J.P., Precinct 4. Do I hear 14 a motion that these reports be approved as presented? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 18 or discussion? All favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 24 any reports from Commissioners in connection with their 25 committee or liaison assignments? 7-23-07 150 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a report that I'd like 2 to -- that I just received. It doesn't have anything to do 3 with liaison -- I guess it does, too. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure it is. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a letter from Judge 6 Vance Elliott to me. "Please advise the Commissioners Court 7 that I will resign my elected position as Justice of the 8 Peace, Precinct 1, effective August 24th, 2007. This 30-day 9 notice should give you reasonable time to recruit and 10 recommend a candidate to Commissioners Court for appointment 11 before the next general election is held." And then it goes 12 on to -- and tells me how wonderful I am. I'm not buying into 13 it. But, anyway, those are the dates. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, my recollection is 15 that if we accept this, he's resigned today; that he needs to 16 do an intent, maybe, to resign, but not -- we don't accept it. 17 Then we come in -- this happened with the Tax Assessor. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not accepting it until 19 we find the answer to that question. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- I don't think 21 they can do it in the future. You either are or you're not. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I understood it is 23 that if it's effective -- if he puts the word "effective" in 24 there, then that's the day. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can do it? 7-23-07 151 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think so. 2 MR. EMERSON: That's what the Attorney General and 3 Secretary of State have said, -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Secretary of State. 5 MR. EMERSON: -- is that if -- if I, for example, 6 were to turn in my resignation effective at some future date, 7 because technically I'm elected all the way through that full 8 term, that I have a right to stay until that effective date. 9 And for the benefit of the public, by me giving you advance 10 notice, they've blessed it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But we should not accept it 13 before that date; is that correct? 14 MR. EMERSON: Technically speaking, correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got the other principle that 16 you continue to serve until your successor is qualified. 17 And -- and unless and until we appoint a successor, and that 18 successor becomes qualified by taking the oath and posting 19 bond, he will continue to occupy that position, I think, under 20 general statutory principles. Okay. Anything else? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got one quickie, Judge. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The -- there'll be a public 24 meeting Thursday at 7 p.m. at the Center Point High School 25 cafeteria for a public discussion on the final draft of the 7-23-07 152 1 feasibility study for the Center Point/Eastern Kerr County 2 wastewater project. That's been advertised in the paper as a 3 public notice. Letters have been sent to all other agencies 4 that would have an interest in it, and I spoke with the 5 Kerrville Daily Times, and they will have a story about it 6 later this week. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our city meeting is the 6th? So 10 we don't have another meeting prior to that? 11 MS. GRINSTEAD: No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it the 6th? 13 (Ms. Grinstead nodded.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's at 8 a.m. 15 MS. GRINSTEAD: 8 a.m. at KPUB. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say we're buying the 17 breakfast tacos? 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: You have to decide, but we have to 19 buy breakfast. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have to buy breakfast? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They bought last time. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, no. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We thought we'd just let you cook. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know what you're thinking. 25 It's pretty obvious y'all have haven't considered anything to 7-23-07 153 1 do with it except put it off on me. I guess that's the rookie 2 of the Court theory again. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's the good cook theory. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, we'll see that something 5 happens. I said "we." I didn't say "I." 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll send us a bill, 7 right? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. It's liable to 9 cost you this time. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's all I have. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You can respond to the cooking 12 responsibility now or -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is the first I've heard 14 that we were supposed to supply breakfast for those people. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Those people." 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We got -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we do the same thing they 18 did to us last time, it'll be cold when we get there, and the 19 butter wouldn't even melt, you know, sitting out in the hot 20 sun. But -- (Laughter.) But, anyway, okay. I guess 21 that's -- I need to -- do we have a number of people that are 22 going to be there? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They usually bring 100 and 24 we always bring five or six. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Last time I remember about 50 7-23-07 154 1 people being there or so, 40 or 50. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: They generally come with a lot of 3 their major staff people, their general administrative staff, 4 and then their senior department heads, the library, the -- 5 the public works, the -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The entire camel train. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quite a few out of the fire 9 department. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you got any more enlightening 13 words for us today? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think I'll just not say 15 anything. That won't take me too long, and Buster, I know, is 16 getting hungry. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's sitting over there having 19 a food attack. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports? We're adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:39 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 7-23-07 155 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of 9 July, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-23-07