1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 25, 2007 2 PAGE Review and discuss FY 2007-08 Budgets and fiscal, 3 capital expenditure and personnel matters related thereto for various County Departments, including, 4 but not limited to the following departments: 5 General discussion 3 6 Health insurance-update by insurance consultant 17 7 Adult Probation 43 8 District Clerk 46 9 Justice of the Peace 1, 2, 3 & 4 63 10 Constables 1, 2, 3 & 4 88 11 County Attorney 100 12 County Auditor 103 13 County Treasurer 111 14 Tax Assessor 115 15 Facilities and Maintenance 122 16 District Attorneys 179 17 Information Technology 181 18 County Court at Law 190 19 Adjourned 192 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, July 25, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 Commissioners Court workshop scheduled for this date and time, 9 Wednesday, July the 25th, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is that time 10 now. This is a budget workshop, and before we -- before we 11 get into individual budgets, there's some things I want to 12 pitch out on the table, and I don't know that we can 13 necessarily make -- come to any consensus or direction at this 14 point in time, because, number one, our tax rolls are not 15 certified, and per a conversation I had with the Tax 16 Assessor/Collector yesterday, normally those tax rolls -- the 17 tax roll is required to be certified, I believe, by July 29th, 18 if I'm not mistaken. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe that's right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The Tax Assessor advised me yesterday 21 that it was going to be approximately August the 10th, because 22 the Appraisal District was late getting their notices out, so 23 we're behind the curve almost another two weeks, if we get 24 them in. I'm not sure. But until we get the certified tax 25 rolls, it's going to be real difficult for us to know what we 7-25-07 bwk 4 1 can do with respect to extraordinary increases, such as 2 personnel increases, except those not mandated by longevity 3 and educational policy, or -- or capital outlay items of -- of 4 -- other than an ordinary recurring nature. So, I wanted to 5 pitch that out. A couple other items that -- that I think we 6 need to get out on the table that there appears to be some 7 confusion on, and I think that the Court needs to -- to 8 formulate some policy on. There's a question in my mind, 9 based on what I've seen, whether or not department heads 10 are -- are subject to the -- the longevity and educational 11 policy of the Court. The reason I pitch that out is that in 12 some cases, the -- the department heads are -- are hired on at 13 a specific salary that does not fit within the step and grade 14 schedule. It's a lump sum type salary structure, and -- and 15 they're treated more like an elected official. And, of 16 course, those -- those compensation packages are handled on a 17 case-by-case basis each budget year. I think we need to have 18 a policy as to whether or not elected -- department heads are, 19 in fact, subject to the longevity. I've seen some instances 20 where they were and I've seen some instances where they 21 weren't. The -- the -- another issue is -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I comment on that real 23 quick? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you right quick 7-25-07 bwk 5 1 where I stand on the thing. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think department heads are 4 no different from anybody else. If they've worked here for a 5 number of years, they should be compensated for it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And particularly in the 8 education field. If they get some kind of certification out 9 there that makes them a better employee to serve the 10 taxpayers, they should be compensated for it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me offer a comment, 12 Judge, too. Last year about this time, I indicated to the 13 Court that I -- I would begin the process of having us come up 14 with a policy for longevity for elected officials. That 15 should include department heads as well. I've asked Ms. Hyde 16 to work on that, and she has done so, and at the appropriate 17 time we're going to -- she and I probably are going to 18 introduce that to the Court, which would -- which will take 19 care of elected officials, and we can include department heads 20 and cover the whole thing at the same time. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think he's saying this is 22 the appropriate time. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then we'll do it today if 25 you want to do it. 7-25-07 bwk 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just wanted to get it out on 2 the table so it's something we can be thinking about, because 3 it's something that I've seen in the past that doesn't seem to 4 have any clear policy direction on it, and I -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: In order to avoid this confusion on 7 an ongoing basis, I'd like to get it nailed down so that 8 everybody knows from top to bottom what the policy is, just 9 like we're doing on the regular employee -- the plug-in of the 10 step and grade. And I think confusion has, frankly, resulted 11 because a lot of our department heads are not, per se, plugged 12 into the step and grade; for example, Human Resources. That's 13 a flat rate, a flat amount of compensation, and it doesn't fit 14 within the step and grade. There are others that fit within 15 that category, so -- and it -- so it appears that -- that they 16 are treated more like elected officials rather than regular 17 employees on the step and grade. And -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let me ask you this, 19 now. You -- you're referring to department heads, and Bill's 20 including elected officials in his conversation. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To me, those are -- should be 23 separated, department heads being I.T., Leonard Odom, 24 Maintenance, those kind of folks. I don't know that -- I 25 don't know that you ought to give Bruce a raise because he 7-25-07 bwk 7 1 went off to school, which is required by law. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I'm not suggesting 3 that, no. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you said elected 5 officials. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only in terms of longevity. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only in terms of longevity 9 or length of service, as Ms. Hyde prefers it being called. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I get back pay from all 11 my years I've been here? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can certainly put it to 13 these other gentlemen and see what they say. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a little different take 15 than Commissioner Baldwin on the -- with the department heads. 16 We look at their salaries not on an irregular basis, and make 17 adjustments, and have done that with most of them. I know we 18 did with I.T. last year; we did it with Len Odom on several 19 occasions since I've been a Commissioner. And while I don't 20 know if we've actually looked at longevity, I think that's 21 kind of in -- has been in the whole process. We're -- you 22 know, I think we've made adjustments, but what I guess you'd 23 call almost merit-type adjustments for those people that the 24 regular employees generally don't get. I mean, they get some 25 merit adjustments occasionally, but we've made some pretty 7-25-07 bwk 8 1 healthy adjustments in some of our department heads over the 2 last 11, 12 years. And -- you know, and I don't -- you know, 3 say someone like Len Odom; I don't know how many years Len's 4 been here, probably approaching 20. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 17, I think. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 16. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 17. You know -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 16, going on 17. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, we've -- I know that's 10 one salary that we've looked at and adjusted quite a bit while 11 I've been here, because we've added more responsibilities to 12 that job. You know, I don't know -- just because, you know, 13 that we decide that he's been here 17 years, he should get 14 another pretty hefty increase. I mean, he's already -- you 15 know, I think -- I'm real cautious about going into a policy 16 that -- you know, about longevity, because we do make 17 adjustments quite frequently. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe -- maybe in 19 furtherance of what you're saying, we need to separate out 20 length of service, any consideration for that, for elected 21 officials, as distinguished from anybody else, because it is a 22 separate category. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, elected officials are a 24 little bit different, 'cause they tend to very seldom get any 25 kind of an increase. 7-25-07 bwk 9 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the point. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that there was 3 policy actually adopted before I was a Commissioner equalizing 4 a lot of them, and I don't -- you know, maybe that made sense 5 when it was done, but I don't think it makes sense right now. 6 I wish we could undo that. And, you know, I know that's very 7 hard to do. I think that -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do it through length 9 of service. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think I want to get 11 involved in undoing that one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with Bruce. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do it through length 14 of service awards. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that does award some 16 of the elected officials -- like Linda's here. You know, 17 she's been here for eons. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A hundred years. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A hundred years? 20 MS. UECKER: 39 years. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't need to do anything there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, her experience, I 23 think, should be worth more than, you know, a new person in 24 that position. I think that, you know, she brings a lot to 25 the table. I think that goes with other elected officials 7-25-07 bwk 10 1 too. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A good example is Linda 3 versus Kathy Mitchell right behind her. She's been a J.P. for 4 less than a term. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So, you know -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: My point is, it's out on the table 7 now, so it's something we need to -- that we need to face and 8 we need to come to some clear consensus about. Let me throw 9 out another little variation on this. You've got an employee, 10 for example, who's been in county service, but not technically 11 a county employee, who changes positions and is now a county 12 employee, and by virtue of the prior service, has not been 13 under any longevity type of -- type of program. Do we start 14 that employee on a -- on a longevity program when it moves 15 over into purely county service? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will you be more specific? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've got an employee who was 18 a, quote, district employee who was paid through the state. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Who moved over and is now a county 21 employee. The longevity did not apply, even though work was 22 being performed for Kerr County. Technically, a state 23 employee, for example, and do we start the meter running on a 24 longevity with a one-year and then every three years 25 thereafter? 7-25-07 bwk 11 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of my thinking, but I 3 wanted to throw that one out. The other -- the other thing 4 that I want to get on the table is, when we plug in these 5 longevities and we have a COLA, for example, do you plug in 6 the COLA and then put longevity on top, or do you add the 7 longevity, plug in the COLA on the combined total of the two? 8 I've seen that flowing both ways. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Goes both ways. It's just a 10 matter of what your preference is, 'cause it has -- in 11 industry, it's done either way. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In fairness to the employee, 14 that becomes the longevity piece, just like the step and 15 grade. The step and grade is longevity, and it becomes part 16 of the base salary, so anything that's applied on top goes on 17 top of their own salary. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, from a mathematical 19 calculation, that that issue may have -- may have resulted in 20 our step and grade schedules getting screwed up when they did 21 it before. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If we plug in the COLA first -- I 24 realize there's a slight penalty to the employee. Plug in the 25 COLA first and then create new step and grade schedules based 7-25-07 bwk 12 1 upon that, then to make the additional step for the longevity 2 or educational increase, keeps those more in line. I don't 3 know. I'm -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality, Judge, is that 5 a COLA increase is applied to step and grade schedules top to 6 bottom, period. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Should be. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And anybody that falls -- 9 and wherever they fall has benefitted from the step and grade 10 advancement plus the COLA, because that has advanced as well. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you do like the Judge 12 said; you do the COLA first, and then you do the longevity 13 afterwards. Because if you don't, you don't get the longevity 14 until you reach that date, and someone who -- I mean -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we're saying the same 16 thing. We're saying the same thing. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's out there on the table. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that there are some 20 elected officials that are -- that are underpaid, but, you 21 know, whether -- it doesn't matter whether we like those 22 people or whether we don't like them; they're in real 23 responsible positions, and they have a lot of -- a lot of 24 responsibility to do their jobs. And I think those -- the 25 three that I will mention that I think are -- are somewhat 7-25-07 bwk 13 1 underpaid is the District Clerk, the County Clerk, and the 2 County Treasurer -- not the County Treasurer, the Tax 3 Assessor/Collector. Those are the three biggest jobs I know 4 of in this courthouse. And I've looked at the comparison to 5 other counties, and, you know, we're -- they're not terribly 6 underpaid, but I also know that we are a little different than 7 some of those other counties. We have, you know, basically 8 two district courts that have offices here, and seems that we 9 have a lot more transactions with real estate and -- and 10 deaths and civil cases and criminal cases that maybe other 11 counties our size don't have quite the numbers that we have. 12 And I think that their caseloads and the things that they are 13 doing now are much greater than they were a few years ago, and 14 their compensation really hasn't gone up that much. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And our people's pay is less 16 than some of those counties that do less work. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I think. And I 18 think those three -- those three positions -- those three 19 elected officials need to be raised up to get more uniform. 20 And we have department heads that are making more than they 21 are, and in my opinion, some of those department heads don't 22 have near the responsibility that are put on those three -- 23 three elected jobs. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, going back to 25 separating them out and trying to look at the District Clerk 7-25-07 bwk 14 1 and her workload and say, "She does all of these things; we 2 need to pay her a different pay scale," well, the Treasurer 3 can come along and say, "Yeah, but I'm your investment 4 officer. I do this and this and this and this and this. How 5 about me?" 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, and that's the 8 reason that everything was grouped -- everybody was kind of 9 grouped together and put on the same level, 'cause you -- you 10 get into a pretty ugly scene every once in a while. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We face it with the Sheriff 12 every year. He tells us how underpaid he is. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We face all kind of stuff 14 with the Sheriff. Is he back, by the way? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: His springboard is off of his chief 16 deputy, if you'll recall. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's how he propels himself 19 forward. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the Chief of Police of 21 the city of Kerrville. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just think that, you 24 know, we -- you know, as time goes on, we grow, the job grows, 25 and we -- the people that are doing those jobs need to be 7-25-07 bwk 15 1 compensated for it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's really a 3 valid point. Their workload has increased because the county 4 is growing and the demand on courthouse and all the 5 departments has increased. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has. And I think that -- 7 you know, from what I've seen in the past years, you know, 8 when I was here before and the years since, you know, I -- the 9 many years while I was gone, it seems like that most of the 10 increases have been -- been aimed at, you know, one or two 11 departments, and others have kind of been -- not ignored, but 12 they've kind of gotten behind on what I feel like is fair 13 compensation. And I would like for us to really look hard at 14 that this year and try to be fair. I mean, I don't -- I'm not 15 saying let's don't be fair and, you know, cut everybody out 16 and just give to these three, but I'm saying that I feel like 17 there's -- there's three that are somewhat underpaid. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those three elected officials. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those three elected officials. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, Ms. Hyde is on vacation 22 today, but she is crunching some numbers and looking at some 23 -- some information from -- from the Texas Association of 24 Counties salary survey, and has -- has extrapolated some 25 numbers from those surveys, and she has -- she is working on 7-25-07 bwk 16 1 those numbers to determine what she, as a Human Resources 2 specialist, thinks is appropriate, and I'm sure at some point 3 in time she's going to be making those recommendations to the 4 Court. That's my sense of it. But I do know she's working on 5 that, so that's something we'll be looking at down the road. 6 But, here again, until we know what the tax rolls are, we're 7 kind of shooting in the dark. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, we can -- we can kind 10 of do the smaller portion of it now, but those major 11 decisions, I think we're going to probably have to wait until 12 we get some numbers. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. I just wanted to 14 throw it out on the table while we're doing this so you know 15 kind of where I'm coming from. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it all needs to be on the 17 table, and it's something that we're going to have to reach 18 some consensus and decision on later. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's -- let's go ahead and go 21 forward with our review and discussion of the '07-'08 budget 22 and fiscal capital expenditure and personnel matters, which 23 are related to those budgets for virtually any department, the 24 way we have the agenda item listed. But before we get into 25 that, Mr. Looney, our insurance consultant is with us here 7-25-07 bwk 17 1 today, and we changed the meeting on him when he was scheduled 2 to be here previously, and he had a commitment and couldn't be 3 with us when the meeting date was changed. So, I wanted to 4 see what he had to offer today, and see if there's anything 5 more enlightening about the insurance game that he wants to 6 lay on us. 7 MR. LOONEY: Oh, goodness. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, goodness. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Here it comes. 10 MR. LOONEY: I'm glad this is a workshop. These are 11 in red folders for a reason. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sort of like a red flag? 13 MR. LOONEY: This is a -- you know, a red light. 14 Don't take these things -- just stop right here. This is not 15 a green light; this is not what we're doing. This is where 16 we're looking. There is where we are. So, I wanted to bring 17 you up to date, and since it's a workshop, if it's all right, 18 I'm going to take my jacket off. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want that podium? Be a 20 little more comfortable. 21 MR. LOONEY: No, that's all right. I'll just -- 22 just sit here, if it's okay. I want to go through these 23 reports with you real quick, and then bring you up to date on 24 where we are and what we're doing so that everybody's up to 25 date on what's going on. The first thing in your folder there 7-25-07 bwk 18 1 should be a chart like this. It's got the red lines on it. 2 Let me explain what this is. This is your paid medical claim 3 history since January of '05. The way we do this chart is 4 that we take a -- a three-month lag in your participation and 5 your claims, and the assumption is that it takes about 60 to 6 90 days to get a claim to go through the system, and those 7 claims, when they go through the system, are appropriated back 8 to your population that existed 60 to 90 days prior to that. 9 So, we lag claims in relationship to your participation, which 10 gives us a more accurate representation of your actual flow on 11 claims, as related to the actual participation in the plan 12 itself. So, this is not just a monthly claim payment. What 13 it is, is an estimate of where your claims are headed and 14 where -- what they've done in the past. As you can see, we -- 15 we're pretty high in December, in '05, and then we started 16 reducing our claims. We started our HRA program back at that 17 time. Medical claims started reducing, and have been pretty 18 consistently on a down-flow from that time forward. These 19 claims -- this claim projection does not include the payments 20 that are made through the HRA program. This is strictly the 21 medical claims that are paid by the insurance company. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the average of per 23 person, amount of claims per person, like 500-some-odd? 24 MR. LOONEY: Correct. That's -- what that takes is 25 your entire population, takes the entire claim payment that 7-25-07 bwk 19 1 was made; simple division at that point as to the dollars that 2 are spent per individual per month for claims during that time 3 frame, and then gives us a projection line as to where we are 4 as far as claims payments are concerned. Little concerned 5 that we have a little bit of an increase here in these last 6 three or four months; we've gone up a little bit. The other 7 thing that is not indicated in here is the really very large 8 claim that we have, where we do have insurance. So, this is 9 all claims. So, we do have one or two very large claims that 10 are still indicated in here that we do get a credit back from, 11 but we take that into consideration when we're doing 12 additional projections on rates. But this is just -- what 13 this -- what we want to see is where we are as far as our -- 14 our claim flow in relationship to what we hear in the industry 15 is, you know, that trend that we always talk about. We want 16 to know what our trend is. So, this kind of gives us an 17 indication of what our trend is. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, let me ask a question 19 right quick. In December of '05, when the line started down, 20 do you attribute that to the HRA program? 21 MR. LOONEY: Very much so. Very much so. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how would the HRA program 23 contribute to the down side of it? 24 MR. LOONEY: The -- what happens is, we -- we 25 changed and we gave credits and we increased the deductibles 7-25-07 bwk 20 1 and we gave credits under the HRA program for people to use 2 toward their expenses during that time frame. So, two things 3 happened. One is, the actual experience of those initial 4 claims was taken out of this, and reflects over into the HRA 5 program. And we got more of a lag time for people using the 6 HRA and understanding the HRA before they actually got back 7 into that claim process. So, it didn't necessarily mean that 8 our claims dropped, but it did put a differential between 9 where the claims were paid and how they were paid. And that, 10 fortunately, became consistent over that period of time, so 11 that we're getting -- a lot of the dollars that were initially 12 being spent initially on the medical plan now are coming out 13 of the HRA, and we're seeing more people accumulate that HRA 14 accumulation. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. So, it's actually 16 working the way we thought it should work? 17 MR. LOONEY: It is working. It's working very well. 18 And I've got another couple of reports that I'm not sure that 19 -- I assume that a workshop is an official meeting for the 20 County, and that because of the fact that there are individual 21 names on these forms -- and I can't give those to you in 22 public, because then it would be public information, and under 23 HIPAA, we can't disclose that information. But I've got the 24 reports that show each individual, what their account is, and 25 who's been spending their account, how it's being spent. And 7-25-07 bwk 21 1 I will comment on that in just a minute, too. The next page 2 is where we are for this year, based on claims that have been 3 paid. And this is a distribution of how the medical plan 4 works. This is a -- tells you what the total bill charges 5 have been submitted, how much of it was in our network, how 6 much of it was out of network, and then the deductions and 7 reductions that are made as a result of -- of nonbenefit 8 circumstances, such as people who filed a claim that was not 9 covered under the plan, or they filed a claim where they were 10 not covered under the plan. There were edits and there were 11 coordination of benefit payments made, things of that sort 12 that were deducted from that. Then we took our credits for 13 our P.P.O. reductions, and we started with about a million, 14 one in total bill charges. And after everything was said and 15 done, we paid $531,000 out in actual medical claims from 16 January of this year to the end of June. So, that gives you 17 an indication of how the flow works through a bill claim down 18 to the actual payment on it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that pretty normal in these 20 numbers -- in industry? 21 MR. LOONEY: As a matter of fact, I'll show you 22 another report here in a minute that kind of gives you a 23 relationship to normality, where it is. But one of the things 24 that we look at is down at the bottom, where it says Plan 25 Ratios, where it says Plan Payments to Allowed Benefits. So, 7-25-07 bwk 22 1 right now we're sharing at about 75/25 percent with the 2 population, so the plan is paying 75 percent of the total 3 costs of the paid claims, and then the individuals that are 4 covered are paying approximately 25 percent of it. And that 5 ratio is an indication of how our medical plan is working, and 6 then when we couple that with the HRA, that 25 percent number 7 goes up, because those -- that HRA is paying for things such 8 as deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance, which are listed in 9 the employee share. They're paying for those -- those areas. 10 So, when everything is said and done, the employee in some 11 cases is not responsible for any expenses out-of-pocket, 12 depending on the length of time that they've been with the 13 county and the accumulation under the HRA. So, the 14 combination of the two plans is working very well. The thing 15 that I'm concerned about in reading this report right here is 16 the fact that we've got $179,000 in prescription drug charges. 17 That's about 34 percent of our total claim charges, which is 18 exceptionally high. That's about twice what we normally see 19 in the industry. We normally see 14, 15, 16 percent of the 20 total medical bills in addition to the prescription drug, and 21 it's typically in that 14, 15, 16 percent range. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was that number, Gary? 23 MR. LOONEY: It's about 33 percent of the total paid 24 claims, 179,960. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7-25-07 bwk 23 1 MR. LOONEY: The next page kind of gives you an 2 indication of -- of where it is and how it's being spent. 3 Branded medications, generic medications, formulary, 4 nonformulary. So -- and as you can see, the majority of the 5 expenses are branded medications through a retail formulary 6 process. So, the -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's part of what's driving the 8 cost up? 9 MR. LOONEY: That's where our -- that's where the 10 majority of our expense is, is in that branded medication 11 through retail service operation. $108,000 of the $179,000 is 12 going through that area. The next page shows you actually by 13 volume as far as the number of prescriptions. These are the 14 top 25 medications, just the top 25, and as you can see, the 15 majority of them are branded medications. The -- the Nexium, 16 this is -- this is -- I guess all the drug companies in the 17 United States and all of the advertising and everything else 18 shows that it is working well. I mean, Nexium is -- and a lot 19 of the reports that we see, Nexium is one or two as far as the 20 number one medication being purchased by individuals in the 21 retail branded market right now. It is way up there. What's 22 interesting is that -- that in the prescription drug world, if 23 you go to a pharmacist, and the pharmacist has a sign above 24 his window and it says, "We substitute generics," you know, 25 just -- if you go to an H.E.B. pharmacy and they've got a sign 7-25-07 bwk 24 1 there that says, you know, if there's a generic substitute 2 available, we will substitute. The problem is, in the 3 prescription drug industry right now, there is no generic for 4 Nexium. To be a generic, it has to be an exact chemical 5 equivalent, and Nexium does not have an exact chemical 6 equivalent in the industry. It does have a therapeutic 7 equivalent, which is Prilosec. Prilosec is about 15 percent 8 of the cost of Nexium, but it is not an exact generic 9 equivalent. It is, however, a therapeutic equivalent. So, 10 you know, if the person's got a prescription for Nexium, the 11 pharmacist is not allowed to substitute -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's Nexium do? What's it 13 for? 14 MR. LOONEY: Sir? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is Nexium? 16 MR. LOONEY: Esophageal reflux. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Prilosec is 18 over-the-counter. 19 MR. LOONEY: Prilosec is over-the-counter. 20 Actually, under certain accounts, in certain circumstances, 21 Prilosec can be purchased through a retail pharmacy with 22 proper drug cards. It's covered under flexible spendable 23 accounts. We're taking a very hard look at that. And, you 24 know, there's a number of people, if you try to take their 25 little purple pill away from them, they will not be very 7-25-07 bwk 25 1 happy, and so we need to decide how best to handle those types 2 of relationships. Prevacid, Singulair, Lipitor, Zyrtec, all 3 of these are -- are very non -- they have no generic 4 equivalent. Now, some of these are coming off the -- the list 5 of -- of branded where there will be generics, but they -- 6 it's just on a timing basis. And typically what happens, 7 Nexium then will change and they'll add Nexium D, and they'll 8 be a nongeneric again. So, it's a game that the prescription 9 benefit management and the prescription industry is playing 10 with us right now, and we're trying to find ways to resolve 11 some of those problems, and actually are looking for -- in our 12 -- in our bid process that we're going through, that we'll be 13 actually submitting to the public in about two weeks for this 14 next year, we will have a specific portion of that RFP that 15 has to deal with the prescription benefit management company, 16 trying to get transparency into the process. 17 The -- the industry -- the P.P.M. industry, Nexium 18 or the other companies will say, "Well, we're going to give 19 you a rebate, you know, for the volume of medications that 20 your employees purchase with Nexium. We're going to give you 21 a rebate based on volume." So, what we look at is, it's -- I 22 don't know; it's kind of like going to Office Depot, and 23 they've got a Hewlett-Packard computer there, and it says, 24 okay, if you take this tab, then we'll give you back $50. And 25 it's going to cost you "X" to buy it, but we'll give you back 7-25-07 bwk 26 1 $50. Well, the price of the machine -- why is it not 2 discounted by $50 to begin with? You know, what's this rebate 3 process? So, that's what's happening a lot of times in these 4 medications, is that, well, we're going to give you back 5 money. What we've found is that Nexium, with a rebate, costs 6 about -- I'm thinking that it's about $4 a pill after the 7 rebate, where Prilosec, with no rebate, which is a generic 8 therapeutic equivalent, costs about 17 cents a pill. So, you 9 know, we've got -- we've got some real discrepancies in price 10 there. 11 The next one is just the same 25 top medications, 12 but it's based on the actual cost of the medication itself, 13 and this, again, is just during the last six months. Imitrex 14 is a medication that's used for migraine headaches, and it 15 appears that we've got probably just one person in the county 16 that's got a lot of migraine headaches. I'm not sure who that 17 is. But, anyway, the reason I show you that is the fact that 18 we've got, again, 30-some percent of our total costs is in the 19 prescription benefit area, and -- and this is probably the one 20 area that may be the negative of our HRA programs, 21 Commissioner. Because, essentially, we have individuals in 22 the county that have a debit card. They've got their debit 23 card through their HRA, and when they go to purchase a 24 medication, then they can purchase it using their debit card 25 through their HRA, so there really is no out-of-pocket cost 7-25-07 bwk 27 1 from a co-payment standpoint for an individual to purchase 2 their medications. And we're seeing that as a result of the 3 -- of the claim flows that I look at, there are a lot of 4 payments made to individuals for $10, which is our co-pay on 5 our prescription medication. So, in some ways, it's doing 6 exactly what it's supposed to do; it's working. It's making 7 it easier for the employee as far as costs and out-of-pocket 8 expenses are concerned. At the same time, we've got 9 potentially an overutilization of that particular piece of the 10 plan, so we're looking at that. 11 The next page is -- is a report that kind of gives 12 you an indication of the -- the large claims that we have and 13 who those large claims are applied to. As you can see, the 14 majority of these are employees. All we did was ask for those 15 claims that exceeded $15,000 for the previous six months, and 16 we have one individual that's in about the $90,000 range, 17 which means that we will -- we're getting reimbursements for 18 them based on our stop loss contract. So, anything over 19 $50,000, we get reimbursed for. But this is just information 20 that shows that this year, we've got one person through six 21 months that's gone over that. We have another person that we 22 expect to go over that, but right now, just two people in 23 excess. And we're -- we're having them under the managed care 24 function of the plan so that they are being monitored on a 25 regular basis. 7-25-07 bwk 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The others that are still within 2 the -- in the stop loss range that we're responsible for, are 3 those -- any of those rolling off? Have they capped? Or do 4 you know? 5 MR. LOONEY: As far as the maximum under their major 6 medical? Or -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no. Insofar as it appears that 8 they're going to continue to grow, whether or not they're 9 going to roll off. 10 MR. LOONEY: No, we have -- we have two that we 11 expect to continue to increase in their costs because of the 12 diagnostic process. And once we've reached that 50,000, then 13 they're the responsibility of the insurance company. The 14 difficulty with that side of it -- well, the one thing is 15 that, you know, it's positive that we've got that coverage, 16 but we're going out for a bid process and we have to present 17 that information to anybody who wishes to bid on it. So, we 18 have to provide that information so that we don't have any gap 19 in coverage for those individuals. So, we've got to present 20 that to the general public when we go for our bid 21 requirements. Which, again, we'll be going out within about 22 two weeks on their bids. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't seem to me that -- I 24 mean, it seems like prior years, some of these numbers were 25 higher. I mean, it's not, you know, great news, but it's not 7-25-07 bwk 29 1 a -- $90,000 is not just a huge amount for -- it seems, from 2 what we've experienced in the past. 3 MR. LOONEY: And part of it is the time frame. This 4 is for six months. This is only a six-month indication, so 5 some of the time -- sometimes when we were looking at the 6 information, it was later in the year and it had a greater 7 time for accumulation. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you anticipate the top two 9 or the top three to keep on increasing? 10 MR. LOONEY: Top one and the third one on the list. 11 The second one is pretty much through the process at this 12 point. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, I see that out of these 15 eight here, seven of them are the subscribers. 16 MR. LOONEY: Employee. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The employee themselves, and 18 their dependents, there's one. Is that a normal number 19 comparison? 20 MR. LOONEY: No, that's -- that's a little unusual. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it? 22 MR. LOONEY: We typically will see more than one 23 dependent unit. But, at the same time, that's good. It's a 24 good -- that's a good circumstance. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But over a 12-month period, 7-25-07 bwk 30 1 that -- the dependent number could increase. 2 MR. LOONEY: It could. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 MR. LOONEY: It's possible. I -- at this time, 5 unfortunately, when we're dealing with 250 employee totals, 6 it's really hard to get a better handle on projection. If we 7 were dealing with 1,000 employees or 2,000 employees, we'd 8 have a little more data consistency. With 250, one person can 9 really skew the -- can skew the numbers. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 MR. LOONEY: So one subscriber of the 200 -- out of 12 the number of dependents that we have insured is probably 13 fairly accurate, because we don't have a large dependent 14 participation. We have -- you know, we've got a little lower 15 than average dependent participation. You know, you're 16 asking, Commissioner, about the -- you know, how we stand in 17 relationship with some of the other payment. The last page is 18 kind of -- what we did is we take the claims that range from 19 certain sizes; up to $99, $100 to $500, $500 to $1,000, $1,000 20 and so forth. We take a look at your population and the 21 claims that are paid in relationship to those volumes, and 22 then we take a look at -- and Mutual of Omaha gives us 23 information about how those same payments and percentages 24 reflect to their total block of business, and what the cost 25 relationships are for that total block of business. So, 5,000 7-25-07 bwk 31 1 to 10,000, we've had 17 claimants, 24 percent of the total 2 payments. But because of our size, again, it's, you know, the 3 indication. So, we've paid on our -- on our 5,000 to 10,000, 4 we've paid higher than the average that Mutual of Omaha sees 5 over their entire block of business. That's just an 6 indication of the relationship between the two. 7 One of the things that -- that we're trying to do 8 for you all for budget purposes -- and, again, this is -- 9 we're six months out from an anniversary date. I think, as 10 y'all know, the -- Mutual of Omaha sold their block of 11 business to a firm called Coventry. Coventry, at their 12 discretion, did not include Texas in their purchase, so the 13 Mutual of Omaha -- that is, an organization that's doing the 14 business on medical plans in the state of Texas is going out 15 of business. They have sent us termination notices, and will 16 not renew effective January. There are two divisions of 17 Mutual of Omaha. One is their claims operation and 18 administrative service organization, and then another division 19 of Mutual of Omaha is their insuring division, which insures 20 the stop loss insurance. That division is active and fully 21 active in the industry, and will continue to be active. So, 22 the stop loss coverage, the underlying aggregate and 23 underlying specific insurance coverages may well be renewed by 24 Mutual of Omaha, and we may -- most likely will get a renewal 25 from them. The administrative service portion of it, the 7-25-07 bwk 32 1 claim paying portion of it will not be renewed. So, we're 2 going out early at this point in time to identify another 3 third-party administrator to administer the plan. 4 In that process, we have also talked to Ms. Hyde to 5 some extent about the time frames and the amount of energy, I 6 guess, that their organization and their individuals are 7 spending in dealing with insurance concepts and premiums 8 and -- and enrollments and -- and all the administrative 9 details that go into the insurance packages. One of the 10 things that she'd asked us to do at this point in time is to 11 determine whether or not we can move to a single based -- 12 web-based enrollment process that will include all forms of 13 insurance, including the medical insurance, the basic life 14 insurance, and all the voluntary plans that are out there. 15 Staff is spending a lot of time in -- not evaluation, but 16 verification, I guess, of payroll in relationship to premium 17 payments and in relationship to all the voluntary plans that 18 are -- that are being offered. And it's all paper at this 19 point. Everything's being done on a paper basis, and there's 20 a -- a lot of hours being spent on evaluation of premium 21 statements in relationship to payroll deductions to make sure 22 that everything is accurate in relationship to premium 23 payments to the voluntary insurance plans out there. So, 24 she'd asked to us review that process to determine whether or 25 not we could use a single source to use a web-based type of 7-25-07 bwk 33 1 enrollment, an internet-based type of enrollment to go to a 2 paperless enrollment process. So, we're in the process of 3 researching and working on that currently. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like a lot of 5 education to me, teaching people how to do that. 6 MR. LOONEY: Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, just seems that way 8 to me. I don't know if it is or not. You're going to have to 9 educate me, I can tell you that. 10 MR. LOONEY: There's an on button and an off button. 11 We have to -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes and no? 13 MR. LOONEY: We have to plug it in. Do you have any 14 children or grandchildren? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comment. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: They can teach you, is what he's 17 indicating. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 19 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. I mean, they can help. Part of 20 the -- part of the process would be having an educational 21 resource center in Human Resources where an individual would 22 be able to go to that location and be able to learn how to use 23 that operation initially. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We were talking about that 25 during the -- 7-25-07 bwk 34 1 MR. LOONEY: Yeah, it's typically a two- to 2 three-year process, where the first year, we go through the 3 process and an individual sits down and discusses with an 4 employee their entire insurance program. They go through the 5 process of -- of on-screen, online, going through the 6 enrollment process, so that every employee is counseled on 7 where they are, what their benefits are, what their expenses 8 are, and the whole process. And then they've got a list of 9 options that they can participate in or not participate in. 10 Once that interview is completed, then you push a button; they 11 get a printout. You've got about a 30-day period in which the 12 individual can or cannot change or make changes in their 13 election. Then at the end of that 30-day period, the switch 14 is thrown, and everything then is done. The -- the process is 15 one in which we want to simplify the underwriting process as 16 much as possible, so that once you go through that selection, 17 if you want to participate in a particular insurance program, 18 there's not a lot of follow-up. Evidence of insurability 19 forms, there's not a lot of -- of other required 20 communications. It's guaranteed issue-type information, so 21 that once you hit the button, you're covered, and then the 22 system itself monitors, generates, does all of the COBRA 23 administration, does all the HIPAA administration. It does 24 all of the premium distributions and comparisons to payroll, 25 and the hours that are required are reduced significantly 7-25-07 bwk 35 1 based on the administrative policies. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, are you talking about a 3 reality? Or are you talking about a dream that we're having, 4 of having this computer program and a training -- 5 MR. LOONEY: We went -- last year, year and a half 6 ago, we went to a major school district in San Antonio and 7 made the same representation to them. They've got 2,800 8 employees, and as of today they're totally paperless. It 9 took -- it took about -- it took four weeks. Every employee 10 in the school district was interviewed, and established the 11 baseline for the entire internet system moving forward. Once 12 the internet system baseline was established, then everything 13 else is electronically based on changes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did the school district 15 develop the program, the computer program? Or -- 16 MR. LOONEY: No, we did. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did? 18 (Mr. Looney nodded.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we go that route, you 20 will -- 21 MR. LOONEY: We did it through a third-party. We 22 did it -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It'll be provided to the County? 24 MR. LOONEY: It'll be provided to the County. And 25 there's two different pieces to that. There's -- there's 7-25-07 bwk 36 1 always organizations out there that want to sell insurance 2 product to your employees; there's no question about it. 3 Y'all are a big employer in the area. Every insurance agent 4 wants to come in and participate and sell insurance products 5 to your employees. As a result of that, a number of those 6 companies will say, "Well, we will provide you with the 7 internet portion of it. As long as you put our product into 8 the -- into the plan, then you can -- then we'll provide that 9 for you." The problem that we see with that is that that 10 link, that hook, is hard to pull out. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 12 MR. LOONEY: Once the hook is in. So what we have 13 done is -- is we've negotiated with and worked with other 14 internet providers so that all the data, everything is 15 contracted directly with the employer, and you as the 16 employer. So, you own the data; you manage the data, so if 17 there's an insurance company or agent or whatever out there 18 that you don't want to participate with any more, then it's 19 simply -- you throw the switch, and they don't participate any 20 more, or you replace them. One of the keys to making all this 21 work properly is to make sure that the insuring companies that 22 you deal with all will participate in what we call a 23 guaranteed issue basis, so that when an employee goes online, 24 they see a product that they want to participate in, once they 25 assume that that product is something they want to participate 7-25-07 bwk 37 1 in and elect it, that electronic signature is sufficient to 2 make application to the company, have the payroll deductions 3 done, and have the products placed in force. So that the 4 paperwork is -- the paperwork function is eliminated. We've 5 taken a look and asked -- asked Eva -- did Eva -- is she here? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: She's on vacation. 7 MR. LOONEY: Okay. I asked Eva to kind of take a 8 hard look at the hours that they're spending in their 9 organization trying to either get the payroll function 10 correct, make sure that the payroll system is making a proper 11 deduction, make sure the insurance premium is being paid 12 properly, make sure the COBRA notifications are done properly, 13 et cetera, et cetera. It costs -- on a clean application for 14 a single insurance contract, it costs anywhere from $22 to $25 15 to process an application, if that application is clean, has 16 no other problems associated with it. If you have any 17 additional information, then you've got to add the additional 18 hours necessary to complete that. So, what we're looking at 19 is measuring the hours being spent on that side of it versus 20 the cost of the -- of the internet function. And right now, 21 it's estimated that the total internet price from various 22 vendors is going to be anywhere from $7,500 a year to $9,000 a 23 year. Which is -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The administrative -- the otherwise 25 -- the administrative costs that you'd pay otherwise is 7-25-07 bwk 38 1 reduced by more than that amount? 2 MR. LOONEY: That's what the estimate -- I haven't 3 gotten a final estimation from Eva yet, but -- but based on 4 the number of hours being spent currently, it appears that 5 we're spending more than that in man hours to -- to resolve 6 the same circumstance. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Common sense says it would, 8 anyway. 9 MR. LOONEY: Well, the other piece of it is -- is we 10 eliminate some significant potential liabilities that you may 11 have from the county side of it for applications that are 12 either misplaced, applications that, somehow or another, 13 payroll function didn't -- didn't -- where you might have an 14 individual that's applied for a certain policy that somehow or 15 another did not get through the system. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, those things don't 17 happen around here. (Laughter.) 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 MR. LOONEY: So we don't -- we don't want to get 20 into -- we want to try to eliminate as much of that liability 21 as possible. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Speaking of the liability, 24 Mr. Looney, what responsibility does this Court have with 25 regard to offering or placing before our employees insurance 7-25-07 bwk 39 1 products which are fair value for what -- for the coverage 2 they're getting? 3 MR. LOONEY: If a -- if an insurance plan is just 4 arbitrary -- arbitrarily selected without any due diligence or 5 comparison from the industry, where there's no evidence that 6 there's been due diligence done on that process, then you 7 potentially face a liability, and that comes from -- from me, 8 that comes from a court case out of California where a 9 municipality -- one member of the committee -- commission 10 simply brought in somebody and said, okay, you write this 11 business, and it turned out to be a company that was not 12 licensed to do business in the state, was not an actual 13 insurance company. One of those issues. And subsequently 14 ended up that the organization was responsible for all claims 15 incurred under that contract as a result of their selection 16 without doing, quote, due diligence. Due diligence in the 17 state of Texas does not necessarily mean that you have to go 18 through an RFP process. Voluntary insurance programs where 19 the County has no expense involved do not necessarily have to 20 go through a bid process. They may or they may not, depending 21 on the selection of the Court. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned that you were going to 23 be going out for RFP's here within the next couple of weeks. 24 Are you going to split two different RFP's, one for the 25 administrative aspect and then a later one for the stop loss? 7-25-07 bwk 40 1 MR. LOONEY: No, those two will be the same. Those 2 will be the same RFP. One will be for the administrative 3 service, and it will include information concerning the 4 prescription benefit management company; it'll include 5 information concerning the administrative service, claim 6 administration function. It will include health 7 reimbursement, the HRA administration piece of it. It will 8 include the flexible spendable account administration. It'll 9 include all of the stop loss coverages. That will be one 10 comprehensive plan. Hoping to get one provider that will be 11 able to do all of the FSA/HRA claim administration, all those 12 under -- under one envelope, so that we don't have to have 13 intercommunication going from multiple providers on how to 14 handle the FSA/HRA information. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what about the 17 other -- the other -- 18 MR. LOONEY: The voluntary piece? We have not -- 19 you know, we're intending to do the due diligence with current 20 providers and other providers in an effort to determine 21 whether or not they will meet the concept of the guaranteed 22 issue under the internet enrollment functionality. We've got 23 a list of all of the current, you know, benefit circumstances 24 and current benefit providers. As long as they will 25 participate in that process. Plus the internet enrollment 7-25-07 bwk 41 1 function, we are also going to do an RFP for internet 2 enrollment function, and that will be a separate RFP. And 3 that will be done and completed, again, within about the next 4 -- we're hopeful to get them out within the next 10 days. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 6 MR. LOONEY: We've got -- we're in the process of 7 doing a lot of -- a lot of analysis right now. With Mutual of 8 Omaha pulling out of the -- out of the business, it's a time 9 frame for us to reevaluate and move forward. And right now, 10 based on our claims history, I would -- I think I gave the 11 Judge a projection on what our percentage cost increase might 12 be overall as far as -- I believe I gave it to you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You gave it to Ms. Hyde, and she's 14 got it plugged in for our purposes of budgeting to this point. 15 It's plugged in, or should be plugged in. 16 MR. LOONEY: I think it is, yeah. So -- and the 17 number that I had given to her, which -- I've drawn a blank 18 right now, sorry. But I checked it yesterday, based on 19 current claim information, and it still seems to be accurate 20 in relationship to what I'd given to her. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15 percent? 22 MR. LOONEY: Not quite that. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Eight percent is what I've 24 been hearing. 25 MR. LOONEY: Eight percent. 7-25-07 bwk 42 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it last year? 2 MR. LOONEY: Three and a half. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty low. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About four, five, something 5 around there, right? 6 MR. LOONEY: Three and a half or four last year. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here on this last sheet, is 8 there anything -- you've got a column that says Percentage of 9 Unique Claimants. Is that a separate type category, or is 10 that just your way of -- what does that mean? 11 MR. LOONEY: Unique what? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last page. 13 MR. LOONEY: Those are the -- that is actually one 14 claimant. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Percentage of unique 16 claimants? 17 MR. LOONEY: This is -- this is one individual in 18 those categories, where we only have one claimant in that 19 particular category based on that diagnosis. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Okay, thank you. 21 MR. LOONEY: And we pulled some of them out because 22 of the relation -- the percentage relationships. We have -- 23 we have two or three individuals that -- well, let's see. We 24 have one individual that's receiving claim payments. The 25 high-cost individual's got a very unique diagnosis. So, I 7-25-07 bwk 43 1 wanted to bring you up to date. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Any more questions 3 for Mr. Looney? A bunch of information to digest. We 4 appreciate you being with us today, giving us the benefit of 5 that. 6 MR. LOONEY: I do want you to know that we are busy. 7 We don't hide down there in San Antonio. Even though we're 8 underwater. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I apologize for the need to 10 reschedule that first meeting that you'd already committed to 11 come to, and when we changed it, why, it's understandable you 12 had other commitments, and appreciate you coming on up today. 13 MR. LOONEY: No problem. If you have any questions 14 at all, please don't hesitate to call us. And it is -- it's a 15 pleasure working with Ms. Hyde. She's -- she is a taskmaster. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You could say that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Gary. 19 MR. LOONEY: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we start down the 21 list now. I don't see Kathy from County Court at Law. I knew 22 they had some -- they had some things going on there this 23 morning. We'll go to Adult Probation, which is under Tab 19. 24 Ms. Davis was -- is here. That's a fairly simple -- we don't 25 have that many items. I have discussed some of the things 7-25-07 bwk 44 1 that I've done with her, -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 19? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that I've recommended here. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 19. It's toward the back on 19. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, it's in the box? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where it was. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The rent, of course, we've just 10 concluded a new lease. That starts with the new rental rate 11 this October. That's the reason for the increase there. 12 There were some other adjustments that I made to the request 13 based upon what had -- what had been expended, and what the 14 projected year end was. Are there any concerns, questions you 15 have about any of those adjustments, Ms. Davis? 16 MS. DAVIS: No, I just wanted to let you know we did 17 get the numbers on the new phone system upgrade that I had 18 talked to you about. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. DAVIS: And it'll be $1,471 to get the new 21 phones in. We have two that are broken. We need two new 22 phones installed in offices that we don't have phones, and 23 then we were going to upgrade and have voicemail. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Voicemail. 25 MS. DAVIS: And so that's that the cost of that. 7-25-07 bwk 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the 1,500 that we plugged in for 2 this should cover it, then. 3 MS. DAVIS: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Good guess. 5 MS. DAVIS: You're good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 7 MS. DAVIS: That ought to do it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you so much. We 9 appreciate you -- just a moment. You had some questions? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I wanted to ask her 11 about the new employee coming on board. When does that 12 happen? 13 MS. DAVIS: September 1. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September 1. And who is 15 that? 16 MS. DAVIS: Clete Buckaloo. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you imagine that? That's 18 mind-blowing to me. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No more Ranger in there. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No more Ranger. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty interesting. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Ms. Davis? 24 Anything else you got for us? 25 MS. DAVIS: No. 7-25-07 bwk 46 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 2 MS. DAVIS: Everything's good. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Apologize for -- 4 MS. DAVIS: That's okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you having to wait for a bit. 6 Next one is the District Clerk, and that is under -- I want to 7 say 6. Is that right? I think that's right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, just a second. Be 9. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've done it more than we 11 have. 12 MS. UECKER: No kidding. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good point. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You tell us. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: A reminder to the Court, the 16 personnel issues at the top, other than those that are driven 17 by existing longevity or educational policy increases, are 18 something that the entire Court's going to have to make a 19 decision on. And then any capital outlay, other than the I.T. 20 recommendations, are -- are something that is going to be an 21 entire Court decision. Ms. Uecker and I have gone over her 22 regular budget, her records management preservation budget, 23 her district records management budget, the -- 24 MS. UECKER: Law Library and jury. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- County Law Library, and jury. All 7-25-07 bwk 47 1 of those are the ones that she kind of rides herd on. And 2 there have been some -- a few adjustments made. Are there any 3 -- any issues that you've got, Ms. Uecker, that you want to 4 talk to us about? 5 MS. UECKER: No. I think they're basically just 6 about all the same. I just wanted to mention that telephone 7 will be down. The reimbursement travel we cut out altogether. 8 I'm not sure why, but that's okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to talk about 10 that. 11 MS. UECKER: Okay, talk about that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to ask the question, 14 why is that zeroed out? Remind me of what we've done. And 15 I'm assuming that reimbursed travel is in-town travel? 16 MS. UECKER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to the bank and 18 whatever -- wherever you go. 19 MS. UECKER: Well, and that was brought up earlier 20 by our H.R. person, too, is, you know, why are we not 21 reimbursing staff for going to the bank? And I try not to 22 make them go unless I can't. You know, I use my vehicle, and 23 I even -- sometimes I even send them in my vehicle. Well, she 24 advises that's not a real good idea either. But, I'm saying 25 that we probably need to be reimbursing these folks for their 7-25-07 bwk 48 1 mileage. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, did -- have we done 3 something to change that? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We changed it a while back. We 5 rolled them into the salary. 6 MS. UECKER: Well, that's where -- for the elected 7 officials? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For elected officials. It was 9 rolled into salary. 10 MS. UECKER: But I have staff that goes out to the 11 jail -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 MS. UECKER: -- quite a bit, two people in 14 particular, and they have never asked for reimbursement. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They need to be reimbursed, 16 though, if they travel for the County. It's my opinion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. I mean, 18 employees, yes, 'cause it's not -- they should not have to pay 19 for that. I think, also -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The difficulty I see is, on an 21 in-county basis, it seems like the administrative end of it 22 might be more than what the actual value of the reimbursement 23 is, but that's something that you're going to have to contend 24 with. I certainly have no objection to it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the -- does this 7-25-07 bwk 49 1 liability insurance issue come into play? 2 MS. UECKER: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Not only -- yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you take the stand that 5 if you have an accident, you're just not going to say 6 anything? 7 MS. UECKER: Yeah. You don't say -- don't offer 8 where you were going. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Her solution is the deception 10 approach. 11 MS. UECKER: Right. (Laughter.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have anything more on the 13 non -- non-owned automobile possibility of a rider on our 14 liability -- automobile liability insurance? Did we have an 15 answer on that? 16 MS. HARGIS: No, we don't have an answer. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think we ought to 19 put something in there. I mean, I have not a clue how much. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, this past year -- this current 21 year, we budgeted $200. Prior to that, we didn't budget any. 22 Up through March, at least, nothing had been expended, and 23 it's projected that nothing will be expended. So, you know, 24 we can certainly plug in -- 25 MS. UECKER: Well, and I hadn't, because, you know, 7-25-07 bwk 50 1 the fact -- we were talking about this, and I try to let it 2 accumulate. What I had done in the past when we were 3 reimbursing them is, you know, let it accumulate so that we 4 didn't, you know, cut checks for $4 or whatever. So, that's 5 why I hadn't done anything yet. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So you do have some tabs that 7 are running, is what you're telling me? 8 MS. UECKER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just submit them 10 basically on a monthly basis or what? 11 MS. UECKER: Well, so that the check's not $2.50 12 or -- of course, you know, it's a little bit higher. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What would you like to plug in 14 there, a couple hundred bucks? 15 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I think that'd be fine. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other item? 17 MS. UECKER: Machine repair we took down. 18 Miscellaneous we eliminated altogether. Computer software is 19 down. Now, the -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't plug in anything in computer 21 software. I didn't know whether you had some -- some 22 contracts there. That -- I believe I.T. has said that 23 we're -- we're on a maintenance inclusion with the new 24 program, and so we don't have that cost now. If we do we need 25 to plug that in -- 7-25-07 bwk 51 1 MR. TROLINGER: The maintenance is not to increase 2 over the next four years, is the deal we got. So, basically, 3 we're at a flat rate, but the cost of software maintenance 4 continues. 5 MS. UECKER: Yeah. That's on 563, the next line 6 item, is my maintenance. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, we've got you plugged in 8 there, okay. 9 MS. UECKER: Yeah. The one thing I do want to tell 10 you, Judge, is that we changed -- Mr. Trolinger advised me 11 this morning that his -- our estimate was a little bit low on 12 the I.T., so instead of 7,466, it should be 7,710. But that's 13 really -- the computer issue is the only thing that I'm asking 14 for. I'm not asking for any additional staff. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Change that to 7,725? 16 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 7,725. 18 MS. UECKER: Yeah, that's fine. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Capital outlay? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. Where it was 7,466. 22 MS. UECKER: And even though you can see, on the 23 last page that I submitted, our increases in the -- not only 24 the case filings, but total receipts, and the passport issues 25 that we're going through, but we're able to deal with all of 7-25-07 bwk 52 1 those, so I'm not asking for additional staff. The records 2 preservation I had last year was 29,000. I'm asking for 3 another 22,000 out of that general fund, Records Preservation, 4 and additional to the five that's out of the dedicated one for 5 the district. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: District records that's on the next 7 page? 8 MS. UECKER: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. UECKER: And I'm hoping that that'll take care 11 of the project that I'm working go. And it'll be my pleasure 12 to throw that last reader-printer out the second floor window. 13 So -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be careful, don't hit 15 anybody. 16 MS. UECKER: Let's see. Law Library. I think 17 that's all pretty much the same. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: With the exception of the personnel 19 issue. 20 MS. UECKER: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. 22 MS. UECKER: The jury, now, the only -- the only big 23 change I have there on the jury is, you know, the jury's a big 24 unknown. We don't know what's coming down the pike on cases. 25 I didn't increase that -- let's see, jury fees. As a matter 7-25-07 bwk 53 1 of fact, it's down. We took it down a little bit, because we 2 are now -- although the jury pay is much higher, we are 3 getting reimbursed from the state as long as funds are 4 available. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are those funds directly offset 6 against these? They come in separately? 7 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we need to do is budget for 9 the gross outflow, then. Is that correct, Tommy? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, there -- I don't know. 12 We'll see what we got here. 13 MS. UECKER: It looks like we're -- you know, I 14 don't know about the County Court or the County Court at 15 Law's, but it looks like we're averaging probably about $5,000 16 a quarter that we're getting reimbursed from the state. 17 Sometimes it's more and sometimes it's -- it just depends on 18 the type of cases we have. I think -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 495 is court reporter expenses, and I 20 have a question. Why that is charged to jury? 21 MS. UECKER: I can't answer that either. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's always -- I thought the Auditor 23 put it there. Okay, Tommy, it's in your lap now. Court 24 reporter expense in the jury, why is that in there? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That typically has been split 7-25-07 bwk 54 1 between four counties for the 216th district. And I don't -- 2 I don't recall why it's in that budget, but -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: This is for both court reporters, I 4 guess? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It would be, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is an example of a court 7 reporter expense? 8 MS. UECKER: Paper. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Paper. 10 MS. UECKER: Machine. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not -- 12 MS. UECKER: The tapes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 MS. UECKER: I don't remember -- I haven't seen one 15 of the District Court's budgets in a while, but when I used to 16 help them with their budgets, I thought that that item was in 17 there as well. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What item? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Court reporter expenses on 20 the jury. 21 MS. UECKER: Court reporter expenses. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I think, years back, there was a 23 separate -- separate fund for that, for jury only, that -- 24 where the jurors fees -- or the jury fee collected by the 25 courts were set in a separate fund. And, apparently, when 7-25-07 bwk 55 1 that was done, they -- their rationale was that all the 2 expenses related to the trial be placed in that to be expended 3 by those funds. We don't have that fund any more, so -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it looked -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: -- it just stayed in there. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: In looking at the District Court 7 budgets, I don't see a court reporter expense item. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: There's not. 9 MS. UECKER: That's why it's over here, I guess. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Chairs. 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah. The only big item that I have on 12 there is the chairs. And I don't know how many of you have 13 served on jury duty. And why those chairs were selected -- we 14 weren't asked, but they're just like this. I mean, they're 15 just -- like, not even this comfortable. The seats are flat. 16 And if you're sitting there in a trial for a length of time, 17 then, I mean, it gets pretty miserable. They start fidgeting. 18 I mean, if they had at least something to give -- like the 19 ones you're sitting in now, to where you could lean back and 20 turn around and -- you know, 'cause sometimes they have 21 exhibits where they have to actually turn around and look at 22 them, and they're really not very comfortable. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much were these, Bill? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These were about $400 25 apiece. 7-25-07 bwk 56 1 MS. UECKER: I didn't put 400 apiece. I think that 2 we can get by with between 250 and 300, because they can't be 3 as high-backed as those, because the person behind them has to 4 be able to see around it and over it. So, I think I might 5 have calculated -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 200, I think. 7 MS. UECKER: -- 300 apiece. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 200-plus is what have I 9 written on mine. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 210, looks like. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about the 13 jury? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 250 is 7,000. 15 MS. UECKER: 250 is 7,000, okay. I guess I figured 16 200. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you've got -- 18 MS. UECKER: Probably. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You're plugged in at 200, or actually 20 a little bit more, that would be. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 210. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be 48 -- 4,800 at 200 23 apiece. Or -- no. 24 MS. UECKER: And I've talked to -- I've talked to 25 both the judges to see if they wanted to get involved in it, 7-25-07 bwk 57 1 and they said, yes, definitely we need them, but they were 2 going to let me make the decision as to which ones. And so -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to make sure 4 they're load-rated? 5 MS. UECKER: They're load-rated? Yeah. Well, we've 6 had some jurors that probably wouldn't even fit in them. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't hear that. 8 MS. UECKER: I didn't hear that. I didn't say that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, these catalogs show they are, 10 in fact, load-rated. 11 MS. UECKER: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: They've specified -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they are. These are 14 load-rated. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. UECKER: So, I don't know -- this is -- you 18 know, at first I had put down just for one courtroom, but I 19 went ahead and included 2, because a lot of times what we do 20 is we'll pick a jury in Courtroom 1; after the jury selection 21 is done, we'll move them over to Courtroom 2 so we can 22 continue doing pretrials and other, you know, cases in -- in 2 23 -- I mean in 1, or vice-versa. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. UECKER: But, you know -- 7-25-07 bwk 58 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what's the number that 2 goes in there? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6,000. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got six, but that -- 5 MS. UECKER: Might be a little low. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: At 250, they're going to run up to 7 7,000. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 24 chairs? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 28. 10 MS. UECKER: Two alternates. Sorry? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 7,000? 12 MS. UECKER: 7,000. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And I've gone ahead and plugged in 14 2,100 on the court reporter expense. I moved that one over, 15 too. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The 2,100. 18 MS. UECKER: I'm pretty status-quo. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. UECKER: I will say that my staff has been doing 21 an excellent job this year. They've been working their buns 22 off, and -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us about passports. 24 MS. UECKER: Passports? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Volume, et cetera. 7-25-07 bwk 59 1 MS. UECKER: Oh, passports. We went -- right now 2 we're kind of at a lull, thank goodness. I anticipate another 3 flush around the first of the year, when people figure out 4 that, oh my gosh, I do have to have a passport to go. I think 5 what the government was not anticipating was the family 6 members that have family left in Mexico that are here, either 7 legally or otherwise, needing passports to go see their 8 families. And I think that is the real big thing that they 9 did not anticipate. There were times -- there were weeks 10 where we were doing between 20 and 30 passports a day. I 11 mean, there was a waiting line with five people just doing 12 passports. Just doing passports. And we get a -- we get a -- 13 actually get a report card from that state agency -- or that 14 federal agency as to how well we're doing, and we're doing 15 very well. There's only been a couple of issues about birth 16 certificates. We went from doing, I think, 24,000 last year 17 to -- the first six months of this year, to a hundred and -- 18 $105,000. Well, we did 43,000 in '05-'06. About 20 -- or 19 19 or 20 the year before, and we're at -- so far this year, we're 20 at -- we did 105,000. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's revenues to the County? 22 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 30 bucks a -- 24 MS. UECKER: 30 bucks a pop, yeah. Now, that also 25 includes, however, postage expense, like most of them now are 7-25-07 bwk 60 1 doing theirs expedited. And to do an expedited passport, each 2 one of those has to -- an expedited passport doesn't make 3 sense to me, but oh well. It goes in a separate envelope; it 4 costs $16.68 to send it, and it costs $16.68 to send it back, 5 and that postage has to be on there. We're charging that 6 person for that postage, so that is an offset. But -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda, do you -- isn't there 8 a new law coming in September, or January 1 maybe, where 9 passports are required to travel in Mexico at all, or -- and 10 Canada? 11 MS. UECKER: January. Yeah, January. Right now, as 12 long as you're traveling by land, up until January, you can do 13 it with a -- a birth certificate. We have had people telling 14 us that they're really giving them a hard time, even on the 15 land travel, about passports. But after January, even to 16 cross the border into Mexico, you're going to have to have a 17 passport. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or Canada. 19 MS. UECKER: Or Canada, right. Whether you're 20 walking or swimming or whatever. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're going -- we have 22 some people swim that way? 23 MS. UECKER: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there will be -- probably 25 be a tremendous increase right before January 1? 7-25-07 bwk 61 1 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And even on national TV, there's 2 -- you know, that's been an issue that's been discussed. And 3 they were talking about -- I think there was an article in the 4 paper over the weekend about it taking eight weeks for 5 passports. That's wrong. We're at about 14 weeks now. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 MS. UECKER: Eight weeks on an expedited passport. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nationally -- I saw a couple 9 days ago, nationally, there's, like, thousands of people that 10 completely miss their vacation. 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah, that had to cancel. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Booked a vacation and had to 13 miss it. 14 MS. UECKER: Of course, now there are a couple of 15 services out there, you know, that charge people a lot of 16 money, but let's say you're leaving for a trip next week and, 17 you know, your passport wasn't there. You can pay these 18 people to go down to Houston and wait in line, if you don't 19 have time to go do it, to wait in line all day to get your 20 passport and bring it back to you. And, I mean, there are 21 some services out there now, and we're giving them -- yeah, 22 we're giving them the information on it. But, you know, we're 23 telling them we don't know what the cost is, but, you know, 24 that's between you and that company. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Jody will do it for 7-25-07 bwk 62 1 nothing. She's an old hand at that deal. 2 MS. UECKER: We have -- I think a lot of our -- 3 Gillespie County District Clerk is doing it now, so that's -- 4 I think that's helping us out a little bit now. I know 5 Bandera has started doing it as well, but we still get a lot 6 of people from San Antonio coming here because they can't get 7 the service in San Antonio at the passport offices, and they 8 heard that they can come up here and, you know, get treated 9 nice. And -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Are you saying that 11 you -- that you issue passports to illegal aliens? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for asking. I was 13 going to ask that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you like to do it? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Thank you for asking. 16 MS. UECKER: No. We send applications in, but most 17 of those are -- are with illegal documents. Now, we have to 18 send them in, but we're required to put a note on there that 19 we anticipate that -- you know, we don't think that the 20 documentation is proper. So, most of those get... But, you 21 know, you still go through the process. People are going to 22 try. But I think -- you know, although it's not something 23 that the statute requires, the statute does say that the 24 District clerk is the only one that can actually collect a fee 25 for doing a passport. Most District Clerks do it. I just 7-25-07 bwk 63 1 think it's -- it's a good service that we provide, and do 2 generate some revenue off of it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can resident aliens get 5 passports? Like green card holders? 6 MS. UECKER: No, they're not supposed to. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They use the passports of the 8 country they're -- 9 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- residents from. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 13 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take about a 15-minute break. 15 (Recess taken from 10:36 a.m. to 10:53 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 18 might. We'll go with the J.P.'s. J.P. 1? J.P. 2. Judge 19 Wright is here. 20 JUDGE WRIGHT: Before I get started, Kathy's got 21 several pieces of new legislation. I understand we're not 22 discussing salaries, but I do want her to pass that out to you 23 so you'll know what we're going to be looking at when salaries 24 are to be discussed. Want to give it to them? 25 JUDGE MITCHELL: Mm-hmm. 7-25-07 bwk 64 1 JUDGE WRIGHT: You're probably aware of a lot of new 2 mandated and unfunded -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Two major items. The license issue 4 that used to be driving without a valid license or while 5 license suspended, and moved from Class B to Class C, which is 6 going to fall in your bailiwick as a result of the DWI 7 fallout. The other is going to be the change in jurisdiction 8 from 5,000, increase to 10,000. 9 JUDGE WRIGHT: Yes, that's primarily it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect that's going to be less of 11 a problem than -- than the license aspect is, frankly. But -- 12 but those are going to be some additional areas in your 13 courts. 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah. There will be a loss of -- to 15 County Court when people file from 5,000 to 10,000. But also, 16 I look for an increase in our court, because people don't have 17 to have an attorney to come and file their case in our court, 18 plus the fees are less. So, I think it will probably offset 19 the fees that are going to be lost in County Court at Law. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The numbers of -- of cases where the 21 amount in controversy is between 5,000 and 10,000, that's part 22 of what this information shows here, is it not? 23 JUDGE MITCHELL: What the -- the first set is the 24 five to -- well, it would fall under 10,000. I mean, it's 25 5,000 to 10,000 would fall in our court now. The second is 7-25-07 bwk 65 1 last year's driving while license suspended, how many cases 2 they had. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 JUDGE MITCHELL: The third one is up to -- from 5 January through May, I think, or June, I highlighted what the 6 driving while license suspended, how many cases there's been. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On the 5,000 to 10,000 8 amount in controversy, looks like the first five months of 9 this year -- 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is what you've tabulated? 12 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: How many total cases? 14 JUDGE MITCHELL: All the ones highlighted right 15 there are the ones that would fall in our court. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have them totaled? 17 JUDGE MITCHELL: I think it was -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 26. 19 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. I should have had it at the 20 top, I believe. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 26. 22 JUDGE MITCHELL: And then we had 26 occupational 23 also, which is not highlighted on there, 'cause we're not sure 24 if the occupational license is going to be in our court or 25 not. We'll find that out, I think, when we go to -- 7-25-07 bwk 66 1 JUDGE WRIGHT: We'll be going to class on the 31st 2 to find out exactly what all is going to be falling on our 3 shoulders now. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, on an annualized basis -- 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: Also, daily, when we go to the jail, 6 we're finding more and more driving while license invalid 7 because of the high fees that D.P.S. is charging there. It's 8 increasing constantly, because people can't afford to pay the 9 fees to get their license back. They're just driving without 10 them. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The $1,000 a year for three years? 12 JUDGE WRIGHT: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: It's going to be a boondoggle for a 15 while. 16 JUDGE MITCHELL: Let me also explain, though, that 17 there's also what passed in the Legislature, Senate Bill 1412. 18 That is where our fees have increased -- will be increasing 19 also on the justice court and the small-claims court. Right 20 now, the justice court is $15. So, when they come, it will be 21 moving to 25. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: As of January 1? 23 JUDGE MITCHELL: No, as of September. 24 JUDGE WRIGHT: September. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: September 1. 7-25-07 bwk 67 1 JUDGE MITCHELL: And small claims -- 2 MS. UECKER: January 1. 3 JUDGE MITCHELL: Is it January 1? 4 MS. UECKER: There's special legislation that says 5 any -- any fees attached to any bill effective in September, 6 the fees are always effective the State's fiscal year, which 7 is January 1. 8 JUDGE MITCHELL: Okay. Well, our justice courts 9 said September. So, anyway, small claims goes from $10 to $15 10 a fee. So, the increase in fees will also -- like, when we 11 come back later when we're discussing our salaries, this will 12 help offset that also. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, this sheet represents 26 15 different types of cases that will drop to your courts? 16 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of this printout. What is 18 26 of the total -- what's the percentage of these cases that 19 will drop to your courts? 20 JUDGE MITCHELL: All those -- all of those. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the percentage of 22 them? 23 JUDGE MITCHELL: We don't know. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 100 percent of those. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All those, whether they're 7-25-07 bwk 68 1 highlighted or not? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Annualized, that's about -- 3 annualized, that's about 63 cases a year, if you -- if you -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- amortize that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be apparent, presumably, 8 county-wide. 9 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But, now, the number of the -- of the 11 driving while license suspended or invalid -- 12 JUDGE WRIGHT: Is increasing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, it's already much more 14 than that. The numbers on those are, what, a hundred and -- 15 how many do you have of those, Ms. Mitchell, for last year? 16 Do you recall? 17 JUDGE MITCHELL: I don't. I didn't even count them. 18 I mean, there were so many of them, I just didn't even go 19 through and count them, but it's the second packet there with 20 the dates. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It's a significant number of 22 cases on those -- on those driving while license suspended or 23 invalid. Those are going to be up significantly. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 200 in this -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7-25-07 bwk 69 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're talking about -- 2 because of this, we're talking about we'd need to increase 3 your salary? 4 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: And our clerks. 6 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, because it's decreasing 8 the work over in County Court at Law, is it your 9 recommendation that we decrease his salary? 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: I can't recommend anything on 11 County Court at Law. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm just trying to get 13 some help here. Y'all may want to go talk to him first. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then come back. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then come back. 16 JUDGE MITCHELL: No. 17 JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, it's done. I mean, the talking 18 to him -- the Legislature -- well, it's done. We are getting 19 it. Some of it we fought. Some of it -- I think the 10,000 20 is a good thing, because people that -- we are still the 21 people's court. They can come to us without having to pay for 22 an attorney. They can come to us and pay much less in fees, 23 and I look for that to increase, the filings to increase. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I made some adjustments in some of 25 the amounts that Judge Wright had requested. Slight reduction 7-25-07 bwk 70 1 in part-time salary. That was essentially to put all of the 2 J.P.'s on parity. One I increased upwards to 1,000, and 3 others I left at 1,000, and some I reduced to 1,000. 4 JUDGE WRIGHT: On the bonds, I understand we're 5 going to have a blanket bond now that will cover our clerks. 6 Is that correct? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we've got that insurance rider 8 now. 9 JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. Is that going to change the 10 bond down even further? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless there is a requirement by 12 statute that they be separately bonded, and I'm not aware 13 of -- of that requirement. It should provide that coverage. 14 The bonds would be for the elected official. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, which if there was -- 16 if the law doesn't say that it has to be broken out, there's a 17 possibility that we put all bonds under one budget somewhere 18 else? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What we've done is, we just recently 20 procured, and I think the figure was $1,600 -- 1,200 or $1,600 21 for a master rider to our insurance coverage for all county 22 employees dealing with county funds or assets. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: On -- I think it's criminal coverage, 25 defalcation. Now, there are some separate statutes that 7-25-07 bwk 71 1 require that certain officials post official bonds that, of 2 course, we're going to have to comply with, with elected 3 officials and -- and some of the other -- the Tax Office, I 4 think they've got specific bonding requirements dealing with 5 TexDOT and some of their things that they've got going on. 6 And I think some of the clerks in the County Clerk's office, 7 there may be some Comptroller requirements, things of that 8 nature. But other than that, we've got this one -- one 9 addendum or rider to our insurance coverage. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's my question. 11 Should -- should $200 be in here, or should this be zeroed out 12 and the $200 added somewhere else? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It may well be that we don't need any 14 of that money. 15 JUDGE WRIGHT: Not this year, but when my bond is 16 due again, we'll have to put it back in. That's -- if I 17 understand it correctly. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are the conferences varied? 20 Some are 1,000, some are 2,000. 21 JUDGE WRIGHT: We've got legislative updates, and I 22 just received a thing we're going to have to go through a 23 school to learn how to do death certificates electronically. 24 That was not put in there last year. I asked for it, but it 25 was removed last year. Now I'm having to have funds moved in 7-25-07 bwk 72 1 there to go this year. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question is why they're 3 different. 4 JUDGE MITCHELL: Because I had more hours of school 5 the first year; I took 80 hours. You have more conferences 6 you have to attend. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We loaded J.P. 3 knowing that we had 8 a new one coming on board. We've done that with J.P. 1 this 9 year, because we've got a new J.P. coming on board because of 10 the number of first-year hours that they're required to do. 11 JUDGE WRIGHT: 80 and 20 continuing. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why is your telephone line 13 item so much higher than everybody else's? 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: I can't answer that. I mean, I'm out 15 at the justice center, and I can't tell you. We went through 16 this last year, and I did get them to put me a hub in to get 17 phone there at the justice center through the Sheriff's 18 Office, but I'm having to pay for it down at the telephone 19 company to get -- to have my phone answered. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your lines come off of the 21 Sheriff's Department? 22 JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah, it's part of that. It's 23 prorated out there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't we earlier decide, on the 25 cell phones, that we will be no longer paying for any personal 7-25-07 bwk 73 1 cell phones, and if you want a cell phone, you're going to be 2 getting a county cell phone, used for county business only? 3 JUDGE WRIGHT: It will be what? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the clear direction 5 that we indicated we were going, yeah. 6 JUDGE WRIGHT: I renewed -- I went -- finished out 7 the last contract, took out a new one this year that was half 8 the price. It's 300 minutes. Are you saying now that I'm 9 going to have to -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just trying to -- I mean, 11 we looked at a couple different options on cell phones, and it 12 seems that the best option is to have -- the County should not 13 be subsidizing personal use on a cell phone. It's hard to 14 know what's personal and what isn't. Therefore, we're going 15 to go under a plan where we can add -- for $9, add each 16 additional cell phone for those employees that need it, which 17 J.P.'s would qualify. They get a county cell phone, and 18 that's all it can be used for, is county business. You'll 19 need your personal cell phone -- you basically have to carry 20 two cell phones if you want to, personal and county. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To me, that's the down side 22 of where we're headed. I think the allowance is a better 23 approach. Set dollar amount, period, and don't have to carry 24 two phones. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option is to give 7-25-07 bwk 74 1 every employee that needs a cell phone -- I think it's a $40 2 allowance. That's it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the accounting is 4 easier, too. 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, I just took out another 6 two-year contract to get it this cheap. It would have been 7 nice if somebody had said something about the county -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've been talking about it all 9 year, for a long time. 10 JUDGE WRIGHT: I'd like to throw it in the river, 11 quite frankly, but I don't have that option. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, that's something that -- 13 that policy's going to change on cell phones, probably, 14 'cause -- you know, to one or the other, issuing county phones 15 or an allowance. 16 JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, mine -- this will probably go 17 down, because my phone is $42 or $43 a month now. But I don't 18 know how much the regular phone bill's going to be. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It seems like a little over 20 $200 a month is pretty high in telephone. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe the Auditor can 22 shed some light on that, Commissioner. Is this a prorated 23 piece of the Sheriff's telephone system? 24 MS. HARGIS: No. We looked at it the other day 25 after -- after court, and it's -- it's basically a land line, 7-25-07 bwk 75 1 and it's $149 a month. It's -- there's no long distance on 2 it. It's three phones, and then she has a roll -- a rolling, 3 you know, cost on there. She's got call waiting. It's just 4 three commercial lines, and then the cost of that line, and it 5 hasn't fluctuated for 12 months. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: It's the same. It's no long distance. 8 It was 149, 148 every month. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is it higher than the other 10 J.P.'s? 11 JUDGE WRIGHT: I'm at the Sheriff's Department. 12 MS. HARGIS: I didn't compare the others. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other one's in Ingram. 14 Isn't that your -- 15 JUDGE WRIGHT: They're through the courthouse. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: They're different phone companies. 17 Hill Country Telephone, Ingram is. 18 JUDGE WRIGHT: No, I'm not with Hill Country. 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Ingram is. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're on KTC, but hers is a 21 separate phone system from the Sheriff's Department. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, she's not part of the Sheriff's 23 Department. She's on Windstream. And her Windstream bill is 24 -- is for three phone lines. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's commercial -- hers 7-25-07 bwk 76 1 is a commercial contract for how many lines? 2 MS. HARGIS: Three. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three lines. Is that three 4 lines each at 149, or -- 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: No, one. 6 MS. HARGIS: No, just -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 149 for the commercial 8 account, and the extra -- and the other two lines are 9 whatever. Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: And Hill Country is cheaper, because I 11 moved -- when I moved from here to there, it's a lot cheaper. 12 I can't tell you why. It's just a different phone company. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems to me the issue is, we've -- 14 we've got this whole courthouse networked. Is it not possible 15 to network all these lines that are outside the courthouse, 16 but within Windstream's service, area under one umbrella? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to probably 18 first address the number of lines that are available in the 19 courthouse. We're maxed out on the system here in the 20 courthouse. 21 JUDGE WRIGHT: We are at the Sheriff's Department 22 also. Mine does go through their central board. Every time 23 -- mine goes down real often, and they have to go over to the 24 Sheriff's Office into that telephone board that they've got 25 over there to -- 7-25-07 bwk 77 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the technical answer is, the 2 way the phone system at the courthouse works is we have one 3 trunk or one group of lines that we pay for for every office 4 in the courthouse. At the Sheriff's office, it's more 5 complex, because they have both emergency and non-emergency 6 numbers. Judge Wright's office has -- I think -- is there a 7 Center Point phone number that y'all -- 8 JUDGE WRIGHT: No. I used to, but that's -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a Center Point 10 number. She doesn't have one. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. It's more complex than the 12 courthouse is. So, the way that the billing's broken out may 13 be a result of that, but the courthouse is so much -- so much 14 less because everyone here -- all the all offices share one 15 trunk, or one set of lines. 16 JUDGE WRIGHT: I've addressed it over and over again 17 with them, and I can't get an answer. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: John, is it possible we can bring all 19 these lines under one umbrella? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Billing-wise? I don't know. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for contractual rate and -- and 22 billing, yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Treasurer is shaking her 24 head no. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: I think it would be a logistics 7-25-07 bwk 78 1 nightmare. 2 MR. TROLINGER: But it does sound like the J.P.'s 3 office is being charged for standard business rate lines at 4 the $52 or $53 per month, per line. 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: I don't have three. I've got two 6 lines coming there and a fax line. Maybe that's why they're 7 charging me for three. Because Joel's office -- 8 MS. HARGIS: The fax line is a phone line. 9 JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. Well, his comes out of the 10 Sheriff's Department. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if you have two voice 12 lines and a fax line, that's three lines. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Okay. Other issues? 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: I don't have a copy of what you said 15 you had changed. If I could get a copy of that? You said 16 that you'd made some changes -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE WRIGHT: -- to my budget. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't make a note of those 20 changes that I told you about? 21 JUDGE WRIGHT: No, my budget was in the car waiting 22 on me to come down there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 JUDGE WRIGHT: Just tell me what they are. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I reduced postage from 700 to 600, 7-25-07 bwk 79 1 based upon use. I reduced lease copier from 1,200 down to 2 1,000, here again, based upon -- 3 JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. Now, that one I'm going to use 4 all of this, because they charge me for copies twice a year. 5 The rest of the time it's just lease. And I haven't paid the 6 second time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the first time it was 439, 8 including copy charges, according to what I'm looking at here. 9 JUDGE WRIGHT: And what else? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, part-time, did you get 12 that? 13 JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I reduced that from 1,050 to 15 1,000, put it on parity with the other J.P.'s. You mentioned 16 that up front. 17 JUDGE WRIGHT: That's not up to date yet, either. I 18 think I've got $30 or $40 left in that. Okay. Is that it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. Any other questions by 20 anybody on the Court? Okay. 21 JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'll be real brief. I'm not going 22 to ask for a lot of money like these others. 23 JUDGE MITCHELL: Why should you? You're leaving. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. Judge, you got -- you got the 25 numbers there before you. I think we made a couple changes 7-25-07 bwk 80 1 per your telephone call. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There was only one -- one change. 3 JUDGE ELLIOTT: One change. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's your phone bill. 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's the phone bill. That's a 6 good thing, because we're going to make a change in the 7 program for cell phones, correct? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 MR. ELLISON: That was dropped from 600 to what? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 350. 11 JUDGE ELLIOTT: 350? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. ELLISON: Everything else remains the same. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, except I increased your 278 to 15 300 in -- 16 JUDGE ELLIOTT: No, in the -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there -- 18 JUDGE ELLIOTT: -- bonds. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: There's going to be a requirement for 20 a bond incoming, so that's okay there. 21 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And -- yeah. Everything else is as 22 submitted. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: God, life is good, isn't it? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-25-07 bwk 81 1 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And just -- we'll just hope and pray 2 that whoever fills my job can live within this budget that is 3 just plentiful for what the responsibilities are. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tremendously big set of 5 shoes to fill. 6 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Exactly. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Bounty is everywhere. 8 JUDGE ELLIOTT: All right. Anything else, 9 gentlemen? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good to see you again, Justice. 11 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Look, if you guys paid me any more 12 and required me to work any less, I'd think I was a 13 Commissioner. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not sure you qualify. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You may have overstepped it 16 there a little bit. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good thing it was at the tail end. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, J.P. 3. Here again, 21 part-time down to 1,000 to put on parity. Bonds reduced to 22 200. May not even be necessary; I don't know. I actually 23 increased postage to 900 because of historical use. Office 24 supplies I decreased 150 because of -- of projections and 25 historical use. 7-25-07 bwk 82 1 MS. HARGIS: Judge, a comment came up, we need to 2 add -- because we'll need new stationary for a new judge and 3 all that. New cards, new envelopes, because of him changing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: In Number 1? 5 MS. HARGIS: In Number 1. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: In Number 1. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Scratch through "Vance 9 Elliott." 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Six months, 400 bucks we spent. 11 MS. HARGIS: You think that's okay? So, we'll leave 12 that? I mean, we'll look at it. 13 JUDGE MITCHELL: It worked fine for me when I came 14 in on that budget that time. It wasn't that expensive, new 15 stationary and stuff, at all. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Trust me. 19 JUDGE MITCHELL: I'll show you where to shop. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The other adjustment -- two 21 adjustments I made. Conferences I increased to 1,000, to -- 22 again, parity. And -- 23 JUDGE MITCHELL: Now, on the conferences -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me. Lease copier, I went to 25 1,000 because of -- of parity and historical use. And 7-25-07 bwk 83 1 conferences, I decreased to 1,000. 2 JUDGE MITCHELL: And that's possibly going to 3 change. I mean, I'll have to come -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Question mark now? 5 JUDGE MITCHELL: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have a -- it's kind of 7 more of a general question. I know you're going to parity on 8 a lot of the budgets, but there's not necessarily a parity in 9 workloads between J.P.'s, and it's primarily because 3 and 4 10 handle the interstate, which takes a lot more effort from the 11 standpoint of cases they got to deal with. The -- I'm not 12 sure that in some of these categories, if that shouldn't be 13 reflected. And I think if you look at -- you know, quite 14 likely, the demographics and which J.P.'s -- or which 15 precincts, with the new things out of the Legislature, 16 workload I don't think is going to be equally distributed. I 17 don't think you can take those numbers and divide them by 18 four, the increased caseload that's anticipated, because I 19 think if you look at -- there's a higher propensity for some 20 of those items coming out of certain precincts. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: On the increased caseload because of 22 legislative changes, I don't think any of us know. I think 23 presumptively, you've got to assume that those are going to be 24 spread across the board, until have you something to indicate 25 otherwise. On the other parity issues, the parity issues that 7-25-07 bwk 84 1 -- that I'm trying to strike are not necessarily all of the 2 categories. Certainly, some of them are going to be greater 3 in the area of telephone, for example, because of Judge 4 Wright. Some of them, supplies are going to be greater. When 5 it comes to conferences, however, I think -- I think the 6 workload is not necessarily reflective of -- of the amount of 7 conferences. They all do the same amount of work in -- same 8 type of work and same type of subjects, so in those areas, 9 that's where I've tried to strike the parity primarily. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree on the -- I mean, 11 conferences, I agree. What I'm looking at is part-time 12 salaries. 13 JUDGE MITCHELL: Thank you. I wanted to go back to 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the one that I think that 16 is probably -- the workload's reflected, the employees to give 17 those J.P.'s the ability to hire some more workers if they 18 need them. And hopefully they won't use them all the time, 19 but I just think that's a justifiable area. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's a possibility, certainly. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no way of knowing 22 how that workload's going to fall. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That workload, no, but you do 24 know the historical trends because of the effects of the 25 interstate on precincts. 7-25-07 bwk 85 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm talking about 2 legislative -- the new legislative elements. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd have to do a real 5 pretty in-depth study, I think, to factor in the interstate. 6 'Cause if you -- if you look at the monthly reports and just 7 look at the bottom line of the amount of money that the 8 department has brought in, then it's not necessarily that way. 9 Many times you see Precinct 1 J.P. bring in more than 3. 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: Never. 11 JUDGE WRIGHT: Bottom line also does not reflect the 12 total workload, either. We go to the jail. We -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm saying. It's 14 -- it would be hard to really see. 15 JUDGE WRIGHT: I have a lot less traffic, and more 16 civil, which takes more time in the courtroom. But the 17 primary thing is the magistration at the jail and the coming 18 out at night and doing the commitments and all the other -- 19 JUDGE MITCHELL: Things that nobody else knows 20 about. 21 JUDGE WRIGHT: -- extra stuff that we have to do. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's spread equally. 23 That's -- y'all are on rotation on that, correct? 24 JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah. But I'm at the jail, so I'm a 25 whole lot handier. (Laughter.) 7-25-07 bwk 86 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Close. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Since we've gone to Odyssey, I've 3 been running the electronic conviction reporting, which is 4 automated now, but I take a glance at it once in a while so I 5 get a look at the number of statistics on citations filed to 6 D.P.S., and J.P. 3 is about twice -- 7 JUDGE WRIGHT: She has a massive amount. 8 MR. TROLINGER: -- the number of any precinct any 9 given month. Just -- that's just a rough number. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Off D.P.S.? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yeah, the number of citation 12 convictions filed electronically. I see the list of those for 13 all four precincts, and I'd say 3 is easily twice as many. 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: Interstate. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Per month. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that certainly would have a 17 bearing on the amount of additional assistance needed. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you asking for, 19 Ms. Mitchell? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,600. Well, she doesn't use it -- 21 if she doesn't need it, she won't use it, right? 22 JUDGE MITCHELL: That's right. I'm conservative. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What else we got? Anything? 24 JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm fine with everything else, 25 gentlemen. I just really hope y'all really take a good hard 7-25-07 bwk 87 1 look at the -- the other issues that we were discussing 2 earlier. I'd appreciate it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The ones that we're going to defer 4 until we know what, if anything, we can do? 5 JUDGE MITCHELL: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See how much Judge Brown 7 wants to take in reduction. 8 JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm not bringing up Judge Brown in 9 this, that's for sure. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, y'all need to go down 11 there and work that out with him. 12 JUDGE MITCHELL: No. No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: If the four of you went down there 14 together -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be four heads 16 rolling instead of one. 17 JUDGE MITCHELL: Exactly. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let us know when that's going to 19 happen. We want to be able to watch. Okay. Four? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just leave it like it was the 21 last year and let's go on? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I made -- I made a few 23 adjustments downward, and I see at least one that went up. 24 Speak now or forever hold your peace. Okay, let's move on to 25 the constables. 7-25-07 bwk 88 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce? You know what he'll 2 do is come in screaming later on. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. He's going to holler 4 at me. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That he was not notified of 6 these changes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to him. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's going to happen. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to him yesterday. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care. We've talked 11 to him for years. He's going to come in this Commissioners 12 Court meeting and scream because he wasn't notified of these 13 changes. He should have been here today, is the point. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to him specifically about 15 the changes that I made. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So all I have to do is 17 call you on the phone from now on and we'll work these things 18 out? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, that's the way it works. Okay. 20 We're going to constables. Number 1. 21 MS. BOLIN: Don't all rush up there at one time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 18. Tab 18. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18? 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Check your guns outside, if you don't 7-25-07 bwk 89 1 mind. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like a power play. 3 Number 1. 4 MR. BILLEITER: Number 1. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is going to be a tough 6 one, guys. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No place to cut. He didn't 8 give us any latitude here. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have your notes. We 10 don't have your -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the reason you don't have them is 12 'cause I haven't made any, apparently. 13 MR. BILLEITER: I didn't get anything, so ... 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess that means y'all don't get 15 any dough at all this year. 16 MR. BILLEITER: I didn't ask for anything. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You won't get it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way you wouldn't be 19 disappointed. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are you with your 21 vehicles? 22 MR. AYALA: They're paid for. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. But, I 24 mean, is there 9 million miles on them and ready to -- when 25 will we need to get new ones? 7-25-07 bwk 90 1 MR. AYALA: I have 54,000 on mine, so -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. You haven't even started 3 yet. 4 MR. BILLEITER: Yeah, I've got around that on mine. 5 MR. GARZA: I've got almost 40,000 on mine. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So we have no lease payments this 7 year, then? 8 MR. AYALA: No. 9 MR. GARZA: No, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will be nice. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do you have on 13 yours? 14 MR. TERRILL: 187,000. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we bought that 16 one, though, did we? 17 MR. TERRILL: No, you didn't. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You guys, how's the fuel 19 allowance holding up? 20 MR. AYALA: Well, this year I'm going to have some 21 left over -- quite a bit left over, but I think we put 3,000 22 in there last year 'cause we didn't know what gas prices were 23 going to do. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's on its way down right 25 now. 7-25-07 bwk 91 1 MR. AYALA: Yeah. So -- 2 MR. BILLEITER: It's a -- 3 MR. AYALA: Flip of the coin what they're going to 4 do. We could probably lower that a little bit. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what was going to be my 6 suggestion. Looks like we can probably lower it $500, anyway, 7 based on the projection. That make sense? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, for six months -- oh, 10 okay. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, okay, it does. I got some 11 administration recommendations on Number 2, Judge. Looks like 12 he worked on this one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Number 2, apparently I did 14 work. I don't know how the others got by me. I apologize for 15 that. I did 2,000 there on that fuel. That seems about right 16 for -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 2,500. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can scratch 6416. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I've already done that. We've got 20 some cell phone issues here, too. 21 MR. GARZA: Your Honor, Commissioners, if I could 22 speak on that matter? My stuff -- I've been using my own 23 personal phone for years, and then about three years ago, the 24 Court allowed me -- I buy air time cards, and I was spending 25 like $10 a month. I buy one every two months, which is like 7-25-07 bwk 92 1 $49, so the County paid $20 and I paid the rest. And I'm very 2 frugal on my air time, and I feel like for my office, you see 3 my phone bill has never gone up -- or I've never gone in 4 excess of the funds. If I could be allowed to still do that, 5 you know, since I've been very efficient, I feel, in my cell 6 phone use. I don't have a contract. I buy a track phone, 7 which basically is -- I just buy the air time as needed, and 8 I've been doing that for -- since four, five years. Like I 9 said, the first couple years I used my own phone, and then I 10 think three sessions ago, the County allowed me to -- I pay 11 part of my phone bill. I would pay part of it. They would 12 reimburse me, so when I bought a phone card for two months, 13 the County reimbursed me, like, -- I think it was $20 for 14 the -- for the two months, $10 -- which came out to $10 a 15 month, and then I paid the rest. I was hoping if I could 16 still continue to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just depends if we do a 18 county-wide policy, which is what we're leaning towards doing. 19 MR. GARZA: So, after the new session, I can still 20 do it right now, but is it going to change after October 1st? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Possibly. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on what you're saying, 23 you're not going to get injured. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You -- you're sure not. 25 MR. GARZA: You've -- but you've seen my phone. 7-25-07 bwk 93 1 Over the years, I've never gone over, or it's been very -- you 2 know, very low on the phone bill. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Terrill, is $2,500 4 gasoline allowance fine with you? 5 MR. TERRILL: Just fine. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to get an argument 7 out of him about anything. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just thought I'd ask. 9 That fine with everybody else? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Angel, I think you had requested 11 3,500. The projected total is 1,400 for this year. Are you 12 going to be able to live with 2,500? 13 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On fuel? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we making them all 18 standard at 25? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where I'm going. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say leave it right there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Save a little bit of money right 23 there. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way, they can give up 25 enough to pay the J.P.'s a little increase in salary. 7-25-07 bwk 94 1 JUDGE TINLEY: They'll take it, I'll guarantee you. 2 I noticed -- I noticed that -- well, I -- your insurance is a 3 little bit different, Bob. The others come in at just under 4 500. You're a little over 500. I'm going to plug you in at 5 550 and the others at 500. Apparently it has something to do 6 with your ownership of your automobile. 7 MR. TERRILL: No problem, sir. 8 MR. TROLINGER: And, Judge Tinley, for Precinct 3, 9 we have a computer hardware line item there. Did you pick up 10 on that? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 900. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 905. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $905. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We show that rounded to 910, 'cause 16 you got cents there. Looks like the operating equipment has 17 all been pretty much 2,500. 18 MR. AYALA: One thing I'd like to know, these 19 vehicles that we have are all out of warranty now, so a lot of 20 the stuff that may happen to them is not going to be covered. 21 1,200 is probably okay. We might want to think about upping 22 that $200 or $300, 'cause, you know, typically oil changes, 23 tires, maintenance -- we haven't even spent that, but we've 24 been under warranty. They're out now, so we might want to 25 kind of look at that a little more. 7-25-07 bwk 95 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about -- how old of cars 2 are they? 3 MR. AYALA: '03's. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you still buy an extended 5 warranty on them? 6 MR. AYALA: That's a good idea. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look into the cost of an 8 extended warranty and see what it would be for -- you can get 9 them up to 100,000 miles, which may be several more years 10 worth. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, probably two more -- or 12 probably two years. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least two or three. Might 14 be worth buying an extended warranty on them. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 1 has a -- has a 454 16 line, vehicle repairs and maintenance. Number 2 doesn't have 17 one, unless I'm missing it. Why not? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's three. Equipment repair, 19 1,000. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 454? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 456 is the number on Number 2. The 22 numbers are a little skewed. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the same as 454 in 24 Number 1's? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7-25-07 bwk 96 1 MR. AYALA: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So what are you 3 saying? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I've got 1,000 plugged in now, 5 but -- 6 MR. AYALA: I was looking at David's; he has 1,200 7 on his for last year. I think they were at 1,000. 8 MR. GARZA: 1,000. 9 MR. AYALA: But since they're out of warranty, we 10 might be looking at increasing that a little bit, or possibly 11 looking at a warranty -- upping the -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anybody know what an 13 extended warranty package -- is it too late to get it, and 14 what it would cost. 15 MR. AYALA: No, it's not. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not too late. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You can buy them at any time. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as you're willing to 19 pay for them. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The thing is, we need to find 21 out how much those things cost. And if we go that route, we 22 need to plug that in somewhere. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Joel, why don't you 24 investigate that and find out that cost? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will be less than the 7-25-07 bwk 97 1 amount that's budgeted. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But you've still got to have regular 3 routine service and maintenance. 4 MR. AYALA: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You got the brakes, you got -- 6 MR. AYALA: Tires with tire rotation, things like 7 that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your suggestion is that we 9 increase that 1,000 to 1,200 in all cases? 10 MR. AYALA: Well, it's something we ought to 11 consider if we don't buy a warranty, I'm thinking. 12 MR. BILLEITER: If we buy an extended warranty, we 13 probably wouldn't need it. 14 MR. AYALA: We probably wouldn't need it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would still come out of 16 that line item, probably. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure would. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1,000. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Go to 1,200 on all of those? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You'll notice the constable in 23 Precinct 4's budget is considerably less than it was last 24 year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to tell us why? 7-25-07 bwk 98 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think there's minus 2 one person. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would do it. 4 MR. TERRILL: We lost my deputy last November. And 5 that has an effect on bonds, also has an effect on FICA, 6 everything with his salary. So -- and it brought it down 7 considerably. And with the medical program, I did an opt-out. 8 Since I'm retired military and I'm covered for Tricare for 9 life, then I didn't need that, and there was a group -- big 10 reduction in the health care cost. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He says he doesn't need to 12 have a deputy, what he told me. So, I guess that's why the 13 budget's lower. He's going to do it by himself. 14 MR. TERRILL: I have a lot of help and support with 15 the other -- the other constables and the deputy constable, 16 Eddie North, and when I have to be out of town or away from 17 the office or something for court, or something that needs to 18 be done, he steps in very willingly and takes care of that. 19 So, just -- there's no sense in adding an additional burden on 20 the taxpayers for that. It's not necessary. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wish the newspaper was in 22 here to hear that. Thank you. But they're not. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Bob. 24 MR. TERRILL: Wasn't meant that way. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably wouldn't care. 7-25-07 bwk 99 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that it? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me do this. Jody? Give her 3 those so she can make everybody a copy; then we'll go from 4 there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Joel, get back to us on that 6 when you find out what an extended warranty costs, okay? 7 MR. AYALA: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On a two- and three-year 9 basis. 10 MR. AYALA: They offer them -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on mileage. 12 MR. AYALA: Well, you can do one-year, 12,000; 13 two-year, 24; three, 36. Those are generic warranties off the 14 internet. There's a hundred companies. There may be a better 15 place that the County can go, but I wouldn't know where to go. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're Fords. 17 MR. AYALA: Well, yeah. Call Ford. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Start with Ford. 19 MR. AYALA: That's good. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Check with used car dealers, 21 too. They sell those things. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they all sell them 23 now. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you can get them for any length 25 of time, any -- any mileage. They just crunch the numbers. 7-25-07 bwk 100 1 MR. BILLEITER: I get three or four offers a month 2 from companies wanting to sell me an extended warranty. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too, on cars that I 4 don't even own. 5 MR. BILLEITER: Yeah, I don't even own any more. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I get cards in the mail 7 saying mine's expired, right? I never had it. 8 MR. AYALA: Thank y'all. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. Good to see you, 10 Bob. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tab 11. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 11. Didn't we get a 17 separate missile from you somewhere? 18 MR. EMERSON: You did. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, $3,000 increase. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He'd like to be able to read 21 the evidence, I think. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I remember him 24 telling me. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 7-25-07 bwk 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Rex, looking at that, I don't think I 2 did you any damage. I had a couple questions on the computer 3 software and software maintenance, and I think that's because 4 of our switch-over to the Odyssey, and then you've got another 5 program that's -- that's generic only to your own operation 6 there, so I had questioned about that. And -- 7 MR. EMERSON: I think I -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- other than that, I don't think I 9 had any issues with you. 10 MR. EMERSON: Okay. Well, I think I attached John's 11 information that he gave me on stuff. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I increased that 4,566 to 7,570. 13 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That kicks it up a little over $3,000 15 to -- for that DVD fiasco that you've got on providing 16 defendants copies of their DVD's. 17 JUDGE ELLIOTT: We may not have to spend that much, 18 but I just honestly -- at this point, I do not know what I'm 19 dealing with, 'cause we can't quite figure out how to read 20 them yet. And the company can't seem to put us on track. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again what that's 22 about. Is this -- does this have something to do with dealing 23 with other agencies? 24 MR. EMERSON: Yeah. Primarily dealing with -- at 25 this point, with K.P.D. and D.P.S. They're all transferring 7-25-07 bwk 102 1 to new technology, digital systems. And under the rules of 2 discovery now, we got to provide discovery to the defense 3 attorneys, as well as we have to have the ability to show the 4 videos in the courtroom to juries. And we are absolutely 5 stumped at this point. Some -- some DVD's we can look at, 6 some we can't. Most of them we cannot copy. It appears that 7 the new software is going to be Microsoft-related software to 8 be able to look at it, but we just don't know that. Now, one 9 of the companies sent us a new Phillips DVD player and said, 10 "This will solve the problem." It doesn't. We still can't 11 look at it. So, at this point, I don't know what it's going 12 to take to fix it. John's been working with us trying to help 13 us, and -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have more problems 15 from one agency than the other, or are they both basically -- 16 is the problem on your end of receiving the information? 17 MR. EMERSON: Well, the problem is we can't look at 18 the information. They've changed over to the new technology, 19 without -- and without forwarding the information to the 20 prosecutor's offices on how to view it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 MR. EMERSON: And apparently the company has not 23 provided anything to law enforcement on how to take care of 24 the issue, so we're in the dark. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Rex, wouldn't you say D.P.S. has 7-25-07 bwk 103 1 done a fairly good job at helping you out? Those are working 2 fairly well, I think. 3 MR. EMERSON: D.P.S. has been by far the best. 4 We've managed to solve that problem, but we're really, really 5 struggling with -- with K P.D.'s system. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's what I was 7 looking for. What do we have here? Propaganda? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Those are the J.P.'s -- I mean 9 the constables. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Completed. On the County Attorney, 12 on 562 and 563, the two software things, just move those 13 figures over and include them, the 1,000 and 2,000. 14 MR. EMERSON: And the one software program that the 15 Judge is referring to is our hot check collection system, and 16 it's really relatively inexpensive. Is that it, gentlemen? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 18 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. That was 20 painless, wasn't it? 21 MR. EMERSON: It was, thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait till we get down to the 23 real stuff, though. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. County Auditor. Tab 13, looks 25 like. I don't think we did him any damage. 7-25-07 bwk 104 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Her. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Her, excuse me. 3 MS. HARGIS: I did change the conferences a little 4 bit. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You got plugged in at 24. 6 MS. HARGIS: Yep, that's it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I gave you, because I 8 knew that you were going to have to load up, being new on 9 board. 10 MS. HARGIS: Well, and because of my license, I'm -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You got a license? 12 MS. HARGIS: Unfortunately -- fortunately, yes, 13 actually. After taking -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's wonderful. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does there need to be any money 16 there for part-time? Is there part-time? Or is -- Tommy, are 17 you working for free for a little while if we need you? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I guess. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You guess? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll take it. The contracts -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: What I'm being paid is in the -- in 22 the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Assistants. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: -- Assistants line item. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: See how that's increased? 7-25-07 bwk 105 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I see. Doesn't look like 2 it's free to me any more. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's not free. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: No, but -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a separate order that the 6 judges entered relative to his appointment and his -- his 7 salary. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's plugged into the 10 Assistants line? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: It's 32,5, is what it is. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many assistants does that 13 cover? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Three. 15 MS. HARGIS: Three. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That makes me feel 17 better. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: And also, if -- if you remember, 19 when Mindy agreed to take the Treasurer position, the Court 20 agreed to return her to the Auditor's office at basically the 21 same salary she's making now. And this budget was done prior 22 to knowing that she was going to run for the office, so 23 there's -- there's 42,000 in that line item for -- for a first 24 assistant. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that number needs to be 7-25-07 bwk 106 1 reduced. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: By about $10,000. 3 MS. HARGIS: No. No. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A person coming in is not 5 going to have Mindy's experience. 6 MS. HARGIS: No, but I'd like to have a real auditor 7 in that position, and it's going to be hard to find. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say again? 9 MS. HARGIS: I'd like to have somebody that has a 10 degree that -- you know, at least an accounting degree for an 11 audit position. I mean, after reading all the stuff I was 12 supposed to do, I really need an auditor in there, you know, 13 that has -- has qualifications, experience, because I can't 14 teach them that and my job at the same time. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not getting cold feet, are 16 you? 17 MS. HARGIS: Well, no, not yet. It -- it just -- 18 the regulations, as I read them, requires us to do more 19 auditing than we're doing, and I'd really like to have someone 20 that was -- had that capability. And I think that gives me a 21 little bit of leeway as to hiring somebody that has those 22 qualifications. I think that we can find someone, but, you 23 know, that's still not a lot for, you know, necessarily an 24 accounting graduate with experience. But I think we might be 25 able to -- I'm hoping maybe I can find somebody that's 7-25-07 bwk 107 1 retired. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we talking about a 3 graduate accountant or talking about a C.P.A.? 4 MS. HARGIS: A graduate accountant would be nice. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to get a C.P.A. for 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think so. That's 8 why I asked. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- still seems high to 10 me a little bit. 11 MS. HARGIS: For a graduate accountant? They're 12 offering them 48,000 fresh out of school in San Antonio, no 13 experience. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They get to live in Kerr 15 County; that's worth a lot. 16 MS. HARGIS: No, that doesn't work with me, y'all. 17 'Cause you're still paying way under what Harris County and 18 Montgomery County pay. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I did check with, actually, Burnet 20 County. They're about our size, and their -- their first 21 assistant is better than this. And -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess it would help me if I 23 had a -- not really necessarily right now, but sometime during 24 the process, a breakdown of how -- what these -- how your 25 office is going to be organized under you, and what the 7-25-07 bwk 108 1 responsibilities of some people are going to be. 2 MS. HARGIS: And I don't have that yet, I'm sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can get that, because it's 4 a -- sounds like there's some justification there, but at the 5 same time, I just hate to -- you know, the job descriptions 6 and all that need to -- and we can't arbitrarily pull salaries 7 out of thin air; it's got to fit the county system. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, one thing that I need 9 to know and be clear about is, how much of that office is 10 under the jurisdiction of the District Judges? And are they 11 going to -- regardless of what we say or do, are they going to 12 order what they want? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As far as -- well, I mean, as 15 far as the employees are concerned? So, you can forget it. 16 Talk all day long; it ain't going to happen, if that's the 17 case. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think that at some 19 point, they just need to do that, if that's what they want to 20 do. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Oh, I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I believe that these other 23 employees are not under their jurisdiction, but I'm not 100 24 percent sure. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question. 7-25-07 bwk 109 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that those -- the 2 office staff of that Auditor is not under -- I believe it's 3 her -- the statutory thing, I believe, is the Auditor and -- 4 what is it, the Assistant Auditor, Tommy? Or just the 5 Auditor? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I think all -- they're all 7 considered assistants. 8 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: And there's an A.G.'s opinion that 10 say they're not county employees. 11 MS. HARGIS: That's what I read. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe not. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I -- I think that if 14 the situation were that they were short-handed because of 15 budgetary controls, and the Auditor reported that, it would be 16 changed. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this goes -- it's the same 18 basic philosophy, that -- you know, and -- that if they're 19 going to be under the county system, which they are, all 20 county employees need to be treated the same, as with COLA's 21 and things of that nature, and I think step and grade and all 22 that. And I don't think it's -- you know, even though the 23 judges certainly can mandate what they want, I don't -- that's 24 just not right. I mean -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are your assistants under 7-25-07 bwk 110 1 the step and grade? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two of them are. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: The Judge has never stepped beyond 7 what the -- what -- like, if there were a COLA, they have 8 never gone beyond what the County approved, as long as I've 9 been here. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only in their offices. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In their offices they have. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: So, that is -- he -- he has tried to 13 stay within what the County does for this office, even though 14 there is -- there is a statute that says that -- that he has 15 the leeway to change the salary as much as 5 percent before -- 16 without Commissioners' consent. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: As to the Auditor? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. As to the office. 19 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Of the Auditor's office. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would certainly think that 24 we would do everything we could to do what the District Judges 25 told us to do. I mean, we need to comply with their wishes. 7-25-07 bwk 111 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they have the authority, I 2 guess we don't have much choice, do we? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: And, I mean, you know, the Judge has 5 never done that either. I mean, he's never allowed any 6 increase in the total expenditures in the office without the 7 Court's -- you know, without the Court's approval. 'Cause 8 I've always brought my budget to the Court. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that's on the -- that's 11 on the upside, anyway. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to the Treasurer. 14 That's the next tab, under 14. I don't -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, I see something over 16 here. County Treasurer. Initially, though it won't be 17 decided today, the Treasurer has asked that -- that she be 18 brought back up to what the Treasurer's salary was previously, 19 which is about 5,000 more than -- than what it was this -- 20 this current budget year. There's also a request for a 21 full-time deputy. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what she's asking for. And 24 then a lesser amount for part-time. But that, of course, is a 25 personnel issue that -- 7-25-07 bwk 112 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Later. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- probably we're going to take a 3 look at it after we know what the tax rolls are. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than that, it appears to me 6 that I really only had one question for you, Mindy, and that 7 related to your -- to your phone bill. Looks like -- what I 8 couldn't figure out is -- is how we got a projected year end 9 of 288, when year-to-date for the first six months was 267. 10 Have you got a special deal with the phone company that you 11 only pay for half a year? 12 MS. WILLIAMS: No. No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other than that, I've -- 14 MS. WILLIAMS: The fax line that I have downstairs 15 is not on the phone system. It is a dedicated line, so it is 16 costing "X" number of dollars every month. And the reason we 17 did that -- and H.R. is the same way. We don't have any more 18 extensions on our phone system; we are maxed out. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I've given you what you 20 -- I've recommended what you want. So -- 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- not a problem. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: I do have one thing that probably I 24 didn't have on here, and this is something that Jeannie and I 25 have been talking about. She wants us to go to a different 7-25-07 bwk 113 1 kind of check, which is going to require probably a folding 2 machine, right? 3 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: And I don't have that in my budget. 5 I'm not sure exactly how much it's going to cost. I'll have 6 to get some information from her and get some prices. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Got any clue? 8 MS. HARGIS: Not on the machine yet. The machine 9 that we were looking at apparently has a little bit of a flaw, 10 so I'm waiting to make sure that we get the right machine. 11 But I think, overall, this is going to save us money. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 MS. HARGIS: Because, first of all, now we're using 14 an envelope, a sticker, and a check. Now we'll be using a 15 check, so -- for everything, just one piece of paper. And it 16 goes through the regular printer, so we're going to save money 17 on the checks, money on the envelopes, money on the sticker. 18 And it takes about 15 minutes to fold 800 checks, and they're 19 ready to go. You run them through the machine. So, overall, 20 your productivity is going to go up and your cost of supplies 21 is going to go down. The machine probably is about $400; it's 22 not that big a deal. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's plug in 500 additional on the 24 operating equipment down there, raise that to 750. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you have -- how do you -- 7-25-07 bwk 114 1 does it not use envelopes? 2 MS. HARGIS: It folds it -- I should have brought 3 one with me. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: A three-part -- it's a three-part 5 form. 6 MS. HARGIS: It's a three-part form, and it just 7 folds itself down and puts the address on one part, and so 8 when -- and then it glues it all together. And it's just -- 9 you know, if you've ever seen a -- it's kind of like an 10 electric bill that you might get or a utility bill; you just 11 tear off the sides and you're ready to roll. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have money in the 13 right line item to buy these checks? 'Cause we're going to 14 have to retrofit the office with checks and so forth. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: I think probably my office supplies 16 line item will -- 17 MS. HARGIS: Should cover those. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: -- maybe absorb that. I've been real 19 frugal, have not ordered any letterhead. I've been using 20 plain generic envelopes, putting labels on them right now, 21 because not knowing exactly what's going to happen next March, 22 I didn't want to go to the expense of buying a box of 23 letterhead that might be gone. So, I'm trying to be as frugal 24 as I can. But the only other thing, we may have to look at 25 when we talk to Incode about changing the programming for the 7-25-07 bwk 115 1 check writing. 2 MS. HARGIS: They'll just change the form, and they 3 already have that clued in for several other entities, so 4 that's not a problem. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: So -- 6 MS. HARGIS: I've already talked to them about it. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: -- no problem there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, just increase the operating 9 equipment line item by 500 to 750, ought to be good to go? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: I think so. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. How long are you going to 12 take, Diane? 13 MS. BOLIN: About three minutes, maybe. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go ahead and do you, 15 then. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perfect. What number -- what 17 tab number? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Next tab, 15. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 15. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We've talked about these things. I 21 think the major adjustments that I made, we reduced your 22 office supplies by 4,000, conferences to 2,500. 23 MS. BOLIN: Judge, can I keep that up at least to 24 28? Because I'm -- I've got one more conference I need to go 25 to this year, and I'm already out. 7-25-07 bwk 116 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, your conferences, you're 2 wanting to -- 3 MS. BOLIN: If I can at least keep it what it was 4 this last year. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go from 25 to 28, instead of 6 35. Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think, other than what I've 8 mentioned, that's everything, isn't it? That should include 9 the capital outlay that you wanted in there, John. 10 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, that's correct. I just 12 wanted to make sure it was correct. We had some confusion 13 between Chapter 19 and County expenditures. We're trying to 14 use the Chapter 19, which is the voter registrations, as much 15 as possible. 16 MS. BOLIN: Right. Judge, what did we decide on the 17 office supplies? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the one I indicated that I'd 19 reduced from 26 to 22. 20 MS. BOLIN: 22, okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I know you've got -- you've got a 22 mailout coming, but you're indicating that you're going to be 23 spending about 17,5 this year. I figured -- 24 MS. BOLIN: Yeah, should cover it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- voter registration, that should 7-25-07 bwk 117 1 take care of the printing. And then, of course, your -- 2 your -- you got additional in your postage to handle that 3 mailout. 4 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. As far as part-time salary, 5 I've got so many people cross-trained, I don't even think I 6 need anything in that line item. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gone. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Done. Contracts. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more confessions you want to make 11 here, Diane? 12 MS. BOLIN: Let's see. Machine repair can go away. 13 I wouldn't know where to -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I just got you plugged in for 100 15 there. 16 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to eliminate that? 18 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. We haven't used it in a long 19 time, so -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's fine with me. 21 MS. BOLIN: And then we'll wait until we see what 22 y'all are going to do to me later to see if I'll let go of 23 something else. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was there something you want 7-25-07 bwk 118 1 to go ahead and commit to now? 2 MS. BOLIN: No. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing you want to tell us, 4 huh? 5 MS. BOLIN: No. I'm not letting an employee go, so 6 y'all can forget that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: At least not right now. 8 MS. BOLIN: I have no intention of letting anybody 9 go. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I will say, with the new -- with the 11 Tax Assessor's new online system and accepting credit cards 12 and whatnot, I'm pretty sure she's looking at a flat -- you 13 know, keeping the same number of employees for quite a while. 14 The office efficiency has just, you know, skyrocketed with the 15 customers being able to do the online payments. And how much 16 in payments, Diane? 17 MS. BOLIN: Just the first year, the first three 18 months we had it, we did almost 500,000, just in credit card 19 payments. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Online? 22 MS. BOLIN: Online. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sit at home and make your 24 payments? 25 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 7-25-07 bwk 119 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 500,000? 2 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 3 MR. TROLINGER: And I attribute that directly to 4 Diane taking office. She made all those decisions to move to 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great. 7 MR. TROLINGER: The technology. We were doing 8 Odyssey and Orion to get the technology, but she made the 9 decisions to get that in place. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is fantastic. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these people paying property 12 taxes? 13 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm, property taxes, plus you can 14 register your vehicle online also. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My gosh, I had no idea. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you see that increasing 17 next budget year? 18 MS. BOLIN: The number of -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The volume? 20 MS. BOLIN: Yes, because it will be printed on my 21 tax statements this next year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 23 MS. BOLIN: And give the county website and the 24 payment information. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great. 7-25-07 bwk 120 1 MS. BOLIN: So I was very excited about it. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you through? 3 MS. BOLIN: I think. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many registered vehicles 5 are there in Kerr County, approximately? 6 MS. BOLIN: Here we go. Do you know what? I don't 7 know. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 46,000 people times two. 9 MS. BOLIN: Well, actually, the state mandates a -- 10 that will be -- after we go over a certain number of 11 registrations, they add a dollar to the fees, and we got the 12 dollar tacked on. But I don't remember the number offhand. 13 No, I got too many numbers running in my head. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. BOLIN: So -- but other than that, I'm -- 16 everything is good. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: When are we going to get our 18 certified tax roll? 19 MS. BOLIN: Probably around the 10th of August. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We going to get it then? 22 MS. BOLIN: I'm hoping. I have a -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I hope so too. 24 MS. BOLIN: I have a call in to the Chief Appraiser 25 now, so -- 7-25-07 bwk 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's the -- 2 MS. BOLIN: -- we'll figure it out. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Different discussion. You're 4 the -- on the Appraisal District board, ex-officio, kind of. 5 MS. BOLIN: I get to listen and talk, but I can't 6 vote. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's that board going out 8 there? 9 MS. BOLIN: It's going good. It's going really 10 well. If I can convince them that they need to quit raising 11 everybody's salaries, then we'll be okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forget it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't seem like you've got that 14 argument won yet. 15 MS. BOLIN: No, I'm going to have to go to the 16 school board to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The tax roll issue, what -- 18 why isn't it here today? 19 MS. BOLIN: Because, first off, by law it doesn't 20 have to be here till this Friday. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't it coming in 22 Friday? 23 MS. BOLIN: Because they went to a new system; they 24 went to true automation, and their programs weren't working 25 correctly, about like we went through. They didn't get their 7-25-07 bwk 122 1 appraisal notices out until the middle of June, and they have 2 to have a certain number of days after the appraisal notices 3 go out to have their board -- their ARB hearings. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is the drop-dead date 5 that they have to have it up here? 6 MS. HARGIS: I believe what she told me, that the 7 protests have to be in by Monday. 8 MS. BOLIN: Yeah, but the rollover here is, I think, 9 September 1st is their drop-dead date. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 MS. BOLIN: So -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's fold it up, come back at 13 1:30. 14 (Recess taken from 12:02 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. 17 We'll resume our budget workshop. Next one we got up is 18 Facilities and Maintenance. We've got a number of different 19 budgets here. One of the issues we're going to have to get 20 resolved is some of the personnel issues. The first one that 21 you're looking at is Courthouse and Related Buildings. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, 16. It's the next tab. 24 Under your Maintenance Salaries, we're going to have to 25 calculate Maria, Mando, and Oliva there, and we're going to 7-25-07 bwk 123 1 have to plug Tim in somewhere; he's not in these budgets now. 2 So, we can either plug him in there or plug him in somewhere 3 else, but he's going to have to go somewhere. He told me he 4 wasn't going to work for free in this coming year. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's the salary coming 6 from now? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the current budget shows a 8 maintenance superintendent in Courthouse and Related 9 Buildings. Then, when you get out to the Ag Barn, you got a 10 Facilities Manager, and we don't, per se, have a facilities 11 manager -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- any more. But -- and you've got 14 two under there, and that's what we've properly got with that 15 budget, with Shel and Bobby out there. And then you've got a 16 jail budget -- excuse me. It was shown as Parks Maintenance. 17 That's been expanded a little bit. You show one salary there; 18 that's going to be Sonny. Then you get to the jail, and the 19 maintenance salary there is Shane. So, you know, where we've 20 put Tim, we've put him in one or the other. But he said he 21 needed to be plugged in somewhere; he doesn't want to work for 22 free any more. The -- a lot of the figures on that first 23 page, Courthouse and Related Buildings, come from Maria, 24 because those are mostly the custodial/cleaning portion of it, 25 and so you don't see anything in repairs and maintenance. On 7-25-07 bwk 124 1 the Capital Outlay, you see -- probably see a note there. She 2 had mentioned to me the possibility of acquiring a floor 3 scrubbing machine for the hard surface floors that we've got. 4 She -- she hasn't gotten me that info yet, but she's working 5 on that. I was trying to see if they had one of those 6 available through the surplus equipment down in San Antonio. 7 I haven't spotted one yet. And she was going to TWX them 8 also. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where did the repairs for this 10 building come in? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to see them. 12 MR. BOLLIER: 513-450. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 513? 15 MR. BOLLIER: 513-450, yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's 513? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be the next to the 18 last page. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's general fund maintenance. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason they're 22 divided out this way? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than we did it 25 historically, I know we've -- that's the way we've been doing 7-25-07 bwk 125 1 it, and we keep on changing. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We probably need to devise a way to 3 probably, at least in some respects, gather them back up 4 again, probably bring the -- the parks and the general 5 maintenance together, leave the Youth Exhibit Center -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And jail. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as a separate one, and jail as a 8 separate one. For -- for that purpose, I guess we could use 9 the general maintenance and courthouse and related buildings 10 together, too, but pull all of those three together. But from 11 the standpoint of -- particularly of Youth Exhibit Center, of 12 people control costs, we need to keep that one separate, and 13 probably also keep the jail separate. And -- and maybe gather 14 up at least two of the other three into one, or maybe all 15 three up into one. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably three up into one. I 17 mean, 'cause parks -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: General maintenance and courthouse 19 and related buildings? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think parks would be 21 rolled in, too; that it's not that big of a -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wouldn't roll parks in with 23 the Ag Barn. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not with the Ag Barn, with 25 courthouse and related buildings. 7-25-07 bwk 126 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Keep it completely separate. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. For example, over in the 4 maintenance -- general maintenance, 513, fuel, oil and 5 maintenance for all the vehicles out -- I show that for all 6 vehicles. So, to some degree, we've already rolled that 7 together, but we probably need to roll all of those budgets 8 together. Yeah, Tommy? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, just for information, the 10 reason the jail is separate is, some years ago, we considered 11 taking federal prisoners, and to make -- to make that 12 department fully costed, we separated out the jail maintenance 13 in order to be able to calculate the daily rate. So, that's 14 the background on why that's by itself. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If that's not true, that's a 16 great story. That's good. That was good. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's true. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That makes sense, Tommy. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know, there really ought 20 to be a better way to organize this whole ball of wax. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason -- really, 23 jail -- I really see the Ag Barn's really the only one that 24 needs to be separated. The rest of them, even the jail, could 25 be put in here. I mean, it's no different than -- 7-25-07 bwk 127 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any other building. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- than the way -- than any 3 other building, really. Other than the amount -- you know, 4 how your staff is allocated. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That will be done. I saw a nod back 6 here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have an argument with you 9 about the jail. I mean, if -- you know, if you have to -- if 10 you have to prove up what your daily cost is for operating the 11 jail to be able to show a charge in another county or a state 12 agency -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Our $37 a day, you're talking about? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we'd keep it separate. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. I think we could 17 combine a couple, probably the parks. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Parks and general maintenance, and 19 courthouse and related buildings. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think you can combine 21 those and not have a conflict. But if we put all that money 22 that we're going to spend on the jail every year into that one 23 -- into a single budget, it could be misconstrued, 'cause 24 there's a whole lot of money in there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-25-07 bwk 128 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may need to be 2 separate. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree, it needs to be 4 separate. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least we go from five to 7 three. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's an improvement. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Kind of like platting. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who-all's under general 12 fund, courthouse and related? Tim's in the supervisory spot. 13 Maria, Mando, and Oliva. Who else is in that second line? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Should be four of us. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim and -- and the three that do the 20 custodial. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's your current salary? 22 MR. BOLLIER: 28,104. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 28,104? 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's what you recommend we 7-25-07 bwk 129 1 leave it at? 2 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. That was quick. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a personnel issue, isn't it? 4 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll talk about that separately. 6 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. But we'll -- we'll put 7 those numbers together. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Your salary, Maria's and 9 Mando's are all the same -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- at this time? 12 MR. BOLLIER: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Maria's an 18-1 or 18-2; I don't 14 remember which. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And Mando and Oliva are -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something less. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 14-4's. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 14 -- I was going to say 14's. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 14-3, 14-4. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's your classification? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 18-2. 23 MR. BOLLIER: 18-2. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's an 18-2, and Maria's a 25 what? 7-25-07 bwk 130 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Either 18-2 or 18-1, I don't remember 2 which. 3 MR. BOLLIER: I think she's -- I think she's the 4 same as I am. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That should be an 18-2, then. 6 MR. BOLLIER: I believe. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have my position schedule in 8 here, but those -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, that gives me an 10 idea. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I can tell you, either 18-1 or 18-2. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In this courthouse and 13 related, why is trash service -- why was that zeroed out? 14 MR. BOLLIER: Because it was -- trash service was 15 put in -- I have it in 513 and 666. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 MR. BOLLIER: And it should be 400, I believe, 18 Commissioner. Yes, sir, it is. 513, I have trash service, 19 and 666 should have some trash service too. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And does that include trash 22 pickup in the parks, and places like Guadalupe Heights? 23 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. We -- what we do with that 24 trash is we take it back to the barn and put it in the 25 dumpster. 7-25-07 bwk 131 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it in 666. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Guadalupe Heights? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's my question. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a trash basket that 5 we've maintained for years at the top of the -- of the access 6 to the dam. And if it's not there, you can be assured that 7 we'll get phone calls, because the trash will mount up like 8 crazy there. People go down, use the dam -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What dam is this? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Flat Rock Lake. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Flat Rock. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Flat Rock there. Tim will 13 tell you. 14 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, that's right there -- Guadalupe 15 Heights, right there by the water -- by the water, where 16 Morris Harper has his water thing. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go down to the dam right 18 there off of -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Hilltop. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hilltop. 21 MR. BOLLIER: Hilltop. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm with you. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every year. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Jody's wanting one 25 out at her place too. 7-25-07 bwk 132 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She needs a new rain gauge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Road, rain gauge, trash barrel. 3 Anything else on your wish list? 4 MS. GRINSTEAD: No, but the road is priority number 5 one. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was on my way out there 7 this afternoon; I had this thing to attend. 8 MS. GRINSTEAD: I know. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I saw you had your pick over your 10 shoulder. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, ready to go. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Which budget are you on? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 666 -- no, that's not -- 14 nevermind. I want to be -- trying to figure out what you have 15 budgeted for major repairs. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got two different items -- 17 well, on the Youth Exhibit, we've only got 1,000 plugged in 18 there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on the courthouse and -- 20 everything except the jail and the exhibit hall, those repairs 21 are listed on 513? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, we -- we've got -- we've 23 got repairs on -- major repairs. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 666? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 510, I don't have any. 7-25-07 bwk 133 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got major in 513. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 513 has a bunch. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $187,000. That ought to be 4 courthouse and related; that's what it's for. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: In the -- jail is separate. Yeah, 6 we've got -- all the major repairs on those three budgets, as 7 combined, then would be on -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 513. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 513. Now, let's talk about the 10 major items there that you see some notes down there. 11 Windows, old part of the courthouse. Tim and I have been 12 trying to get a handle on seeing what it's going to run to do 13 something about that. Good ballpark we've got there, 175, 14 180. These would be clad-type windows. But, I mean, they're 15 not going to be historically -- Historical Commission type of 16 appropriate, but they will be appearance appropriate, but 17 energy efficient, maintenance-free, 20-, 25-year life. In the 18 process, we also discovered that the, quote, new windows that 19 were put over here on this new part of the courthouse are 20 wood, and they're ready to be painted. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a -- that was 23 probably an architect that -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Decision. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- that made that choice, 7-25-07 bwk 134 1 because of being on the Historical Commission as well, with 2 you. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are we going to be able to get 5 away with replacing these windows with windows that don't make 6 the Historical Commission happy? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess what they don't know 8 won't hurt them. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not under any mandate to do 10 anything that's -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not historical -- we don't 12 have a designation. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want one either, do 15 we? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- when we started running 18 out of money in that renovation project, then we quit doing 19 the windows. We did some of them. Like, I believe we did 20 Tommy's office. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I think they went all the way 22 around, and they picked -- they picked some of them to do, the 23 worst ones, and did them. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess what I'm asking, are 25 the ones that we did redo, though, do they need to be redone 7-25-07 bwk 135 1 again, or is this just a matter of re -- 'cause these were 2 redone. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was here when we did all 4 these. These were all -- I thought every one of these was 5 redone. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't do Commissioners 7 offices, I know. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I think we did everything downstairs 9 except in there. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: And I believe there were some maybe 13 on the second floor. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They puttied, patched, reglazed. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And you can go around with a pencil 17 and probably poke a hole from the outside. 18 MR. BOLLIER: And if you go to the window right 19 above this one and this one, you'll find out that you can -- 20 you don't push too hard on that glass, 'cause you're just 21 going to push it in. 'Cause I've already been up there, and I 22 have -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're telling me is 24 that the redo that we did six, seven years ago didn't last 25 very long? 7-25-07 bwk 136 1 MR. BOLLIER: That's exactly right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No. From my -- in my office, in the 4 wintertime, if the wind's out of the north, you know it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't tell you that, did we? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't keep the fire lit, can you? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: You'd be lucky to light a candle in 8 there. (Laughter.) 9 MR. ALFORD: Space heaters again, John. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Has the renovation been paid 11 off, or is it still -- still -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's been paid off. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Paid off. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paid off. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How long ago? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Last year. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year, seven years. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You'd like to see this window thing 19 come down the pike, Jon? You've been the one that, year after 20 year, has said, "When are we going to fix these windows?" 21 MR. BOLLIER: If we get the windows fixed, just 22 imagine how much money we could save on our heating and 23 cooling and so forth. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: A lot of money. 7-25-07 bwk 137 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- something's got to be done; 2 there's no question. To me, it's whether you do it all at one 3 year, or split it up over two or three years. And then, you 4 know, what the new windows look like -- I mean, if you're 5 going to change the windows, it's going to look pretty silly 6 to have different types of windows on the courthouse. You're 7 better off doing them if they're going to -- you know, I think 8 we need to put something in the budget for it, but I'd like to 9 hold off; let's look at windows before we look at what we're 10 going to get. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 175, is that -- how many 12 is that? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 77 windows. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Starting at Tommy's and 15 coming all the way around? 16 MR. BOLLIER: 77 of them. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Old part of the courthouse, 77 18 windows. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Upstairs and down? 20 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Every window in this whole part of 22 the courthouse. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not totally convinced you 24 can do that without permission from the hysterical crowd. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have any historical 7-25-07 bwk 138 1 designation. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it may not be the 3 Historical Commission. It's some commission that oversees 4 courthouse squares, that you got to get permission to change 5 -- do any kind of changing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought that was only if 7 you took their money. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. I remember -- 10 like Buster does, I remember going through this very thing. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's something to it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's one reason why we 13 didn't replace the windows back whenever this came about the 14 first time. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus our architect -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got to get permission to 17 make that kind of -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mainly the architect. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Walker could probably 20 tell you what he remembers. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Walker would love to do 22 this all over again. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I bet. 7-25-07 bwk 139 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I think we had to get them to sign 2 off on what we did here in the renovation. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I remember. And I 4 mean, it -- it started before I got out of here. In fact, 5 this part of the renovation was done, and it was just fixing 6 to start over there. I think, you know, whether it -- whether 7 they really have the authority to do anything, I don't know, 8 but we did have to get them to sign off. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we'll look into that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to leave a 11 number in here. We'll look into that, and by the time -- 12 between now and when we finalize the budget, we'll find out 13 and get the -- and we also, when we get our tax roll numbers, 14 we'll find out how much of this we can do, if any. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, I think they're probably 16 going to have to -- because of sizes, the windows, when 17 they're fabricated, will probably have to be specially 18 fabricated. So, if we do it, we probably need to go ahead and 19 do it all at once. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these going to be 21 fabricated to be just like this design of window? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, they can -- they can do 23 it to look -- with the divided line up top, vertically and 24 horizontally, and just horizontal down below. They can do it 25 any way you want to. And also, the folks that Tim and I 7-25-07 bwk 140 1 talked to -- we want to keep all of the inside stuff all where 2 -- cut right out and fit right up against our woodwork there, 3 so that the inside appearance will be substantially the same. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still be able to use the same 5 trim? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's the plan on the inside. 7 Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing wrong with the trim. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, huh-uh. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we would -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We want to use as much of that as we 12 can. What probably will make that more available to us is if 13 -- if they're fixed windows, where they're not movable sashes, 14 we can probably better utilize the trim. Now, they'll have to 15 go in there and -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could have an antique 17 window sill. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We do. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this price include 20 installation? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that ballpark includes 22 installation. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to leave the 24 whole 175 in there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For right now, yeah. 7-25-07 bwk 141 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we can always negotiate 2 some of it out or whatever you want to do. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a good idea. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I was -- frankly, when we calculated 5 the ballpark, I was frankly amazed that it wasn't higher. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Oh, yeah, me too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is it a window? What's 8 the math? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: About 2,500. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many windows did you 11 say? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 77. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 77. 14 MS. HARGIS: What did you say the number was again? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 16 MS. HARGIS: What was the number? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 25 -- 22 to 25, in that range. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 175,000, 180,000 for 77. 19 MS. HARGIS: For 177 windows? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Did you say 177? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, just 77. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 77 windows. 23 MS. HARGIS: Oh, 77. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Kathy, I don't think that includes 7-25-07 bwk 142 1 your little basement window down there. We're going to have 2 to figure out a way to get that in a minute. 3 MR. BOLLIER: I think about $2,200 a window. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think that's roughly what we 5 figured; 2,200, 2,250, something like that, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like a price out of San 7 Antonio. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's pricey. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are big windows. 10 MS. HARGIS: Those are really big windows. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And other than that, you 12 have a lawnmower and -- is that 7,200 or 1,200 for a 13 lawnmower? 14 MR. BOLLIER: 7,200. Z-track John Deere, radius 15 turn, 52-inch cut, 27-horsepower, 8-gallon gas tank. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commercial variety? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, it is. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think much of the John 19 Deere noncommercials. 20 MR. BOLLIER: We have one that -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not worth much. 22 MR. BOLLIER: -- belongs to Adult Probation that we 23 get to use. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That commercial grade? 25 MR. BOLLIER: Works very well. 7-25-07 bwk 143 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you on courthouse 2 grounds? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Where am I on courthouse grounds? I 4 have a gazebo that we're going with. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not talking -- I'm talking 6 about the weeds that are growing in the yard. 7 MR. BOLLIER: The weeds -- where am I with the 8 weeds? Well, my man has been sick. He had a four-way bypass, 9 so he was supposed to have been here the first of August, and 10 I hope he still gets here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- do you have a 12 quote from him? 13 MR. BOLLIER: No, I do not. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's what you're waiting 15 on? You sure got a noisy phone. 16 MR. BOLLIER: I did. I turned it off. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- I mean, a 18 budget number for -- I think we need to start putting some 19 more money into keeping up our courthouse square. I think 20 we're doing a terrible job. I don't know what a good number 21 is, but you'll have something before long, you think? 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: An estimate? So, where does 24 that go under? Under -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: That will go under 450. 513-450. 7-25-07 bwk 144 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Building and grounds maintenance, 18 2 last year -- 18 budgeted; estimated to expend 18. Budget this 3 year is 20,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20,000? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one are you on? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute, that's under Youth 8 Exhibit. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's Youth Exhibit. 10 MS. HARGIS: I started to say -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see anything under -- 12 MS. HARGIS: 450 is 67,000. Under -- under general 13 maintenance. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Building repairs. I don't see 16 that number in here anywhere. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Not on courthouse. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be -- if anything, it 19 would be under 510, under repairs and maintenance, but there's 20 nothing in there; it's been zeroed out. And I really think we 21 ought to have a separate line item for that. I think grounds 22 maintenance is different than repairs. I think we ought to 23 have a grounds maintenance line item so that we know what the 24 -- you know, 'cause if we get -- Tim's getting quotes from 25 companies to put us on a program for -- 7-25-07 bwk 145 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to keep 2 courthouse grounds separately, or under courthouse and 3 related, or are we going to include it in the maintenance, 4 parks? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's included. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the maintenance and 7 parks? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to take courthouse and 9 related buildings, the general maintenance and the parks, and 10 roll those into one. We're going to keep jail as a separate 11 budget. And -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ag Barn. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Ag Barn a separate budget. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Where do I find the 15 number that we had plugged in -- I asked this of Tommy; he 16 couldn't tell me the number that we had plugged in for the 17 construction of the bridge across the two pieces of Flat Rock 18 Lake Park. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That is in the parks fund. We have 20 a separate fund for parks, for Flat Rock and for the Ingram 21 Lake. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should we not roll all this 23 up together? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: We had -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure would be easier to look 7-25-07 bwk 146 1 at, figure out where you are. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause we're not even 3 looking at this. This was a big-ticket item, and it will be a 4 reasonable size ticket item. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're looking at 662. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Way at the tail end. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 662? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You may not even have that page yet. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably don't, 'cause we 11 haven't gotten all the pages yet. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. We only give you what 13 you need. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We only get our little 15 pages, a few pages at a time. They don't want to confuse us 16 with the facts here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. Don't give you what 18 you -- only give you what you need. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's all a matter of 20 interpretation. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: We started that fund for parks. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: We started that fund for parks. 24 Well, we got a grant from L.C.R.A. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 7-25-07 bwk 147 1 MR. TOMLINSON: And we also received grant moneys 2 from -- I think from another source, for parks only. And so I 3 looked at that as a special revenue, so we were able to match 4 the cost of -- of the park operation or whatever we did to the 5 park with the money that we received from -- from the grant. 6 That's the reason there's a separate fund. I mean, it's not 7 necessary now if you're not going to get any -- you know, any 8 more grants for that purpose, but that's the reason. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there are none 10 available at the moment, none that we have at the moment. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you don't have have any 12 money to complete that project yet? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We put money in the budget 14 last year to complete that project, and it didn't get 15 finished, because the expenses to do the -- to drill the 16 pilings and to construct the cap and all that stuff exceeded 17 what we put in. So, we still have the rail cars sitting on 18 the side waiting to be moved into place and finish the 19 project, and it has to be this budget year. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard will give us a 22 number on that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But going back to my grounds 24 maintenance, I still don't have anything in my budget to 25 keep -- 7-25-07 bwk 148 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't have anything to 2 kill the clover, replace it with grass. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And everything else out there 4 that's not grass, which is everything growing. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I remember the debate 6 going back to when Frances Speakman was still alive. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Jon, it'll be winter soon. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we'll have brown weeds? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 MR. BOLLIER: Would that be -- that was all in 66 -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put in $12,000 as a holder 12 till you get some numbers. That will be $1,000 a month, which 13 it should cover and get us on the road to recovery. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line and which budget? 15 MS. HARGIS: Plus 2,000 a month? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,000 a month, so $12,000. 17 MS. HARGIS: Oh. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under grounds maintenance. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tim? 20 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Write the word "antiquities" 22 down. 23 MR. BOLLIER: What does that mean? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Being old. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't even spell it, but 7-25-07 bwk 149 1 those are the folks that are going to tell you what you can -- 2 if you can put windows in the courthouse or not. It's a -- 3 it's an agency in Austin. Antiquities. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that separate from 5 historical -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe not. It may be a part 7 of the Historical Commission. I'm thinking it is. 8 MR. BOLLIER: You said antiquities? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Antiquities. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like antique. 12 Antique-wities. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Remember "aunt." Aunt 14 Iquities. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, just remind me to get ahold of 16 the right folks in Austin about these dang windows. 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey. Well, that's who it is. 19 That's who it is. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Texas Historical Commission, we get 21 stuff from them, and that -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My kidneys just kicked in and 23 I remembered. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They'll be able to tell us where to 25 go. 7-25-07 bwk 150 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else we got, guys? Oh, 3 let's go to jail maintenance. Tim had made a note here, bid 4 to replace rolling steel doors, $17,200. He tells me the 5 sallyport door is just fine now. 6 MR. BOLLIER: It's just fine. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So take that off? 8 MR. BOLLIER: We can take that off for now. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's really not plugged into 10 anything. It's just as a -- and then the other two items 11 there, Rusty's premium air conditioning. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of a big ticket, 13 isn't it? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they really need to be 16 replaced? 17 MR. BOLLIER: The roll-up? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the air and -- 19 MR. BOLLIER: The A/C units? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 21 MR. BOLLIER: There's some of those units up there 22 that we don't -- I don't see that we need to replace them all, 23 no. But there's three or four units up there that I see that 24 need to be replaced, because they're the ones that we keep -- 25 the compressors are the -- we replaced compressors on those 7-25-07 bwk 151 1 units two or three times, so that that's telling me something 2 that's not -- that's not right. And Jack no longer works for 3 Compton's, so the price that is on there -- that I have on 4 there, it may vary a little bit to the high side. I don't 5 know how much to the high side. But I would like to replace 6 at least three or four air-conditioners up there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much are they apiece? 8 MR. BOLLIER: They're, like, $1,000 per -- per 9 unit -- or per ton. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are probably -- what size 11 units are they? 12 MR. BOLLIER: They're anywhere from a 10 -- there's 13 a 10-ton unit up there, 5-ton units up there, and I believe 14 there's one big 20-ton unit. Or I may -- I believe that's 15 right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the 20-ton need to be 17 replaced? 18 MR. BOLLIER: It's a big one, yes. I -- that's the 19 one that takes care of the jail part itself out there, and the 20 biggest part of the jail. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wonder what it could cost to 22 build a -- put up chain link fence and put up a bunch of 23 tents. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Bingo. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bexar County's looking at 7-25-07 bwk 152 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. And buy a lot of pink 3 suits. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let them sweat. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that something that we 6 need to go out for bids? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this something that, just 9 because we have a maintenance contract with a certain company, 10 that we have to purchase from them? 11 MR. BOLLIER: No. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like to 13 realistically look at this, we should look at replacing the 14 ones that need replacing, and then next year, if there's more, 15 then kind of get them on a schedule where you don't get hit 16 with the whole ticket at one time. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said three or four? 19 MR. BOLLIER: Sir? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many units are there? 21 How many are out there? 22 MR. BOLLIER: How many units are out there? There's 23 20. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa. 25 MR. BOLLIER: On top of the roof, yes, sir. 7-25-07 bwk 153 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, three or four need to be 2 replaced today? 3 MR. BOLLIER: I would like -- well, let's don't say 4 need to be. Let's say would like to be. Because -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we don't start replacing 6 them, we're going to get hit with them all at once. 7 MR. BOLLIER: That's right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think "need" is a better 9 word. 10 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. Let's see, we need to replace 11 at least three or four. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we go on a 5-year plan, we'll 13 do 40,000 a year. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then figure out which ones need 16 it the most. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the way I think it 18 would work the best. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do too. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way we don't -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't afford $200,000 23 every -- you know, at one time. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that would be -- 7-25-07 bwk 154 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That will get us going, and 2 start staggering them. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That replaces four? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 200,000 just for four? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's for all of them. 7 MR. BOLLIER: All of them. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 9 MR. BOLLIER: For all 20 units. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For 40,000, we ought to be able 11 -- maybe go to 50,000, give a little bit of leeway on a couple 12 of the big ones. Something like that is what I recommend. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: HVAC replacement under capital 14 outlay, allocate 50,000? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what is this 18 god-awful number for the maintenance contract? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 48,403 for maintenance contract 20 on HVAC. 21 MR. BOLLIER: Oh, okay. That was the extra -- in 22 other words, if we paid that extra $48,000 to Compton's, they 23 would come and maintain our air conditioners for that extra 24 amount for the next ten years. I believe it was ten years. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They want 48 up front, or 7-25-07 bwk 155 1 4,000 a year? 2 MR. BOLLIER: All I wrote down -- he told me 48,000. 3 So, I don't know if they want it up front or if they want it 4 $4,000 a month. I would think up front. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think not. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Standard 10-year parts and labor 7 warranty. Add 48, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're replacing them every 9 year, I think -- what are they going to maintain for that kind 10 -- that's a lot of money. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's something else that we 13 need to bid out. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maintenance. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we bid that out already, 16 annually. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's just on -- we 18 bid out just what the service call is, an hourly rate to come 19 do something. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but I wouldn't think 21 we'd want to be locked into a $48,00 annual contract to work 22 on the heating and air conditioning units at the jail. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why we -- I mean, 7-25-07 bwk 156 1 unless -- from a personnel standpoint, I don't know why we 2 can't change filters and all that; I don't know why we can't 3 get on a schedule to do that. 4 MR. BOLLIER: We do that already. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that's -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're doing it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I don't know why we need 8 this, unless they're doing a lot more under that maintenance 9 contract than -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they -- isn't the 11 maintenance contract they go and check the thing out, and they 12 replace something? I mean, there's something -- don't they 13 replace a belt or something? 14 MR. BOLLIER: No. Under that thing, we'd replace 15 the belts. They would replace -- make sure that they were 16 charged, make sure the control boards are all working. And -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they do some things other 18 than going and just taking a look at it? 19 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: According to the literature, the 21 estimate they gave was 10-year parts and labor extended 22 warranty. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your record of 24 service calls on those units now? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You said this was a 10-year 7-25-07 bwk 157 1 parts and labor extended warranty? Is that what you said? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what he said. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I said. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that means we don't 5 have -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No, for extended 10-year parts and 7 labor warranty, add 48,403. That's to all these brand-new 8 units. That's -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we did all 20. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- replacing the entire -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, that's if we replace all 12 of them? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And then the warranty, extended 14 10-year parts and labor warranty on all of those units would 15 be $48,000. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 11th year, they're all 17 broken. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, buy all new units and 19 then buy the extended warranty on top of that. No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're going to -- I mean -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I vote no, if there's a 22 vote -- or I say no. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not into extended 24 warranties. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not into paying that kind 7-25-07 bwk 158 1 of money for a new unit warranty for an extended warranty. 2 They do have some factory warranty that should come with them, 3 at least a year or two years. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These units haven't been bad 6 that we had up there; they're just old. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they were put in '80 -- 8 MR. BOLLIER: Here lately, we haven't had a whole 9 lot of problems with them. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We had that -- whoever it was 11 over at the jail that Rusty had as an inmate -- 12 MR. BOLLIER: Mark. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- did a bunch of stuff while 14 he was there. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, he did. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that may have something to 17 do with why they're not going out. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Could be. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still, I think we need to 21 replace them on a systematic basis. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the five-year plan. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're plugged in for 50 grand. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The jail repairs, 75 grand. 7-25-07 bwk 159 1 That's in addition to air-conditioners? 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the jail repairs is now 4 going to be -- well, I guess that's capital outlay, 50,000. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What part of that jail repairs 7 has been air-conditioners in this past year? 8 MR. BOLLIER: Which part of the jail -- what now? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Repairs, this current year. 10 We've spent $36,000 on repairs year-to-date. What part of 11 that has been air-conditioners? 12 MR. BOLLIER: A big part of it. I don't have the 13 number. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if it's a big part, I'm 15 just saying if we start to go buy new air-conditioners, we may 16 be able to reduce that overall repair line item, maybe 10,000 17 anyway. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're looking at year 20 ending almost 73,000. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- if that includes a lot of 25 air conditioning now, and we're replacing 20 percent of them? 7-25-07 bwk 160 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much can you reduce that 3 75,000? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5,000? 10,000? 5 MR. BOLLIER: You can -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably five. 7 MR. BOLLIER: 5,000, probably. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, pull that 75 down to 70. That's 9 assuming that we do the 50. 10 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we don't do the 50, we 13 probably need to up it to 90. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is one of those times 15 when we need to spend the money. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Either that or put the tents 18 up. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been an advocate of that for a 20 long time. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know you can buy a lot of 22 tents and chain link fence for $75,000. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have the property out 24 there. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably even put a baloney 7-25-07 bwk 161 1 sandwich kitchen to go with it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty's tent city. I like 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be happy to get the new jail 5 administrator guy from the state to come down here and tell us 6 whether we can do it or not. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't do you that? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all want him? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bexar County's trying to 10 work it out with that individual, whoever he is. They really 11 want to do it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know they do. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Criteria generally is you can do that 14 on a temporary basis if you -- if you're putting something 15 online to expand your jail. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. What comes into play 17 is temperature control and lighting and that kind of thing. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we done Ag Barn yet? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. We haven't gotten to the 20 pink suits yet. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Done with the jail? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Jail's after Ag Barn. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't recall talking about 24 the Ag Barn. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure we did. 7-25-07 bwk 162 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Texas law may be different 2 than Arizona law where it comes to -- when it comes to inmate 3 detention. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very much so. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you got with the Ag Barn, 6 Jon? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is -- Shel and Bobby. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is Bobby a full-time 10 employee of the Ag Barn? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 12 MR. BOLLIER: No. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's only what, halftime? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: About half. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Halftime. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So he's halftime there and 17 halftime here? 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. He usually works -- I have 19 him working right now Tuesdays through Saturdays. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 21 MR. BOLLIER: And so on Saturdays, if there's a 22 function going on out at the barn, he works that function. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But Shel is supervising 24 community service? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7-25-07 bwk 163 1 MR. BOLLIER: On the weekend. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've seen Bobby up here on 3 the weekends too. 4 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. If we don't have anything 5 going on at the barn, he'll -- he has things to do here on the 6 weekend. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, that line item needs to 8 reflect halftime -- full-time and halftime? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, is it half? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kind of the way it's been 11 working out, isn't it? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Kind of, pretty close. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's only going to be half, 14 we should probably only pay half his salary coming out of 15 that, 'cause it is being tracked. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm -- that's what 17 my point was. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the salary that's 20 quoted there on the supervisor? Is that correct? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They -- don't those all have to 22 be adjusted, Bill? I think all of the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- personnel numbers aren't -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll have to pull them in off the 7-25-07 bwk 164 1 position schedule. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get there. Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is, what do 4 we need to do under the capital outlay for some of our 5 long-range improvements over there? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't get Roy off of 7 dead center to do something, he's not going to have the money 8 that he's had this year. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, even moving the 10 outdoor arena, I mean, my thought would be for this next year, 11 the goal would be to get the outdoor arena moved and get what 12 we're going to do in that outdoor building done. I don't 13 think it's going happen this year, to be honest. Get those 14 two things done, and then set up for the following year to be 15 able to hopefully build the new barn. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you, one thing I was 17 talking to Tim about earlier was, he'd been wanting -- been 18 needing a shop area to build things and repair things, and I 19 was thinking it might be -- rather than build something down 20 here, build something in one of the -- you know, part of that 21 area underneath where we're going to have storage and stuff, 22 put in a permanent shop in there where they can have it set up 23 full-time, and use them when he needs them, and lock the place 24 up. And -- and that's kind of on the way by the lumberyard 25 going out there to do something, too, so I think that that 7-25-07 bwk 165 1 might not be a bad idea, to plug in something for building him 2 a space out there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like, plug in something for 4 building -- I mean, part of that space is going to be used for 5 storage, shop, whatever, and I think we need to budget for 6 that and for moving the outdoor arena. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be putting 9 concrete floor down. Is that what you're thinking about? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that -- part of that, I 11 mean -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Side walls. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And sewage, utilities out there. 14 That's going to have to be extended over to the sewer line. 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yesterday I just found out something, 16 that Adult Probation is wanting me to store a bunch of desks. 17 And, like I was telling Commissioner Oehler, I -- I haven't 18 anyplace to store anything. Everything is -- there's nowhere 19 to put it, and so I don't -- that's why I'm hoping to put the 20 storage space out there. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I also said a lot of those 22 desks, if we don't have a use for them, I suggest maybe down 23 where Eva's wanting to put in an area for training for 24 computer, we might be able to use those desks, take a few of 25 them and put it down there for that function, and the rest of 7-25-07 bwk 166 1 them -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Surplus. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- surplus and out of here. 4 We don't need to store stuff that's not going to be used. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are they our desks or the 6 state's desks? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: They're ours. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're ours? 9 MR. BOLLIER: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are they? I mean, 13 they're desks like my desk? 14 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. Yours is one of a kind, 15 'cause I built it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He built it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Custom-made desk. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it a desk -- like what? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like I have? 20 MR. BOLLIER: Like -- yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kind of like my table. 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how much is there? 24 MR. BOLLIER: They was telling me anywhere between 25 10 to 12. 7-25-07 bwk 167 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that sounds like the 2 right thing to do down there, is the training desk, then. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wouldn't have to buy anything. 5 MR. BOLLIER: But, now, I think we still have a 6 bunch of stuff down there that came out of the clerk's office. 7 That big green book holder, whatever it was called, you know, 8 that had the rollers in it where they put the big -- and it's 9 still down there in the bottom, and I still have desks down 10 there in the bottom, and I still have desks down there in the 11 storeroom down at the other end. So, what shall I do with 12 those? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to have a 14 surplus -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: We have an eBay auction that's 16 continuously in operation. Is it appropriate to -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- we're stalled right now, 18 because the -- the guy that's doing the eBay administrative 19 work for us, his hours expired for his community service. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, until he's in trouble 22 again... 23 MR. TROLINGER: You have to realize, the guy -- he's 24 a head honcho with a large national outfit that works out of 25 Kerr County here. We were actually fortunate to get him. He 7-25-07 bwk 168 1 did a great job. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause Rusty -- 3 MR. TROLINGER: He's brought in $40,000 on eBay on 4 basically things we'd have no -- you know, be sitting around. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Arrest him again? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I talked to Rex Emerson about a 7 contract with this individual to continue on a -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commission. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Commission basis. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Commission, and he agreed to 11 15 percent. I think that's probably low. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty reasonable. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Very reasonable. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very reasonable. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Rex didn't have a contract, so I was 16 thinking that maybe next Commissioners meeting might be a good 17 time for -- to bring that in. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Good deal. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: But right now, he's just trying to 20 clean up what he started for no fee. Right now, that's what 21 he's doing. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's a ballpark number, 23 150,000 to get all this stuff going and money set aside to 24 move the outdoor arena? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much was your arena, 10? 7-25-07 bwk 169 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The arena -- moving the arena, I 2 just threw out 150 for moving the arena and fixing up the 3 storage area, our part of it. The rest of it would be 4 donations. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you previously had 6 a number. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, we had -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it was 100, I think. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: More like 100. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 100,000, yeah. The 150, we 12 ought to be able to get going on all that stuff. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And these things are -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But all the rest -- you know, 16 the big project, I don't foresee the County putting -- I 17 don't -- we'd like the County not to put much money into that. 18 We need to raise that from donations and grants. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The new barn? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The big building. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what do you want, 150? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put 150 in for this, and this is 24 basically setting the stage for that. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 7-25-07 bwk 170 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that can happen. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to start somewhere. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It'd be tear-down of the arena? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Tear down. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving the outdoor arena, tear 6 down and rebuild the outdoor arena, 4-H arena. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With lights and everything. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this capital outlay? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then also, storage and 13 renovation of the pole barn. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you talked to Roy lately 15 about any of this? Going to have to get him kind of jabbed in 16 the side of the ear or something to get him started on this. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do we do his budget? I 18 can tell you how to do that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we haven't done it yet. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next week. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be a good time to jab him 22 right there. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll just have to grab him, 24 hold him up short. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can you can write him 7-25-07 bwk 171 1 a letter and say, "Your budget has been zeroed out. Please 2 report to the courthouse"? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Commissioner Oehler, I understand 4 that there are a lot of get-togethers in the -- at the exhibit 5 center. Right now, we've got no internet service out there 6 whatsoever. Do you think it's an attraction of any type for 7 to us spend a little money in the telephone budget to 8 establish some public access? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For people to bring their own 10 laptop? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And then County employees 12 could, in turn, use that also. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ag Barn. 15 MR. TROLINGER: At the Ag Barn. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the Ag Barn? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hadn't thought about it. 19 MR. TROLINGER: I estimate it's about $70 a month on 20 the -- which we typically put on the telephone line item, and 21 then $540 to put the hardware in to provide the service. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You can wire the thing for under 23 $1,000? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Wireless. Just -- just a simple 25 access point where the public can access the internet. 7-25-07 bwk 172 1 MR. ALFORD: We used wireless during the stock show. 2 We put it up in the old office, and it covers both barns, 3 whenever we do all of our entries and data entry. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Right. 5 MR. ALFORD: We're all wireless on that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have that out there during 7 that time? 8 MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 9 MR. TROLINGER: But it's just for that time period 10 that it's being brought in. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm. 12 MR. TROLINGER: It's a small number, but I think it 13 -- you know, the benefit to the -- you know, the type of 14 clientele you're bringing inside there -- I saw the schedule 15 recently, and, you know, maybe fill up the hall a little bit. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hanson is going to use it for her 17 dogs, maybe. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dogs. Maybe I saw some 19 Cutting Horse Association somewhere written down. 20 MR. TROLINGER: And then, Judge Tinley, I had a new 21 computer for maintenance here at the courthouse. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 MR. TROLINGER: On the -- on the budget I presented 24 you, and one for the Ag Barn. Well, I had it listed under the 25 Ag Barn's GL code, 10-666-569. And I'm not sure if you put it 7-25-07 bwk 173 1 on there, or if you put it on 510. That's all I had for I.T. 2 with maintenance. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $3,500? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Actually, $2,182 total. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 6 MR. TROLINGER: 2,182 total. It would go in capital 7 outlay if we -- or, excuse me, it would go in operating 8 equipment. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2,180. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I wasn't certain if that had been 11 included, looking at the -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see it anywhere. 13 MR. TROLINGER: All right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In 10-666-569, there's 3,500 15 bucks -- 5,000 bucks. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me that when 17 you budget for a computer somewhere, that you put it in the 18 actual budget of the receiver? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you -- I thought we 21 put everything in your department and then you got them paid 22 out of there. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Negative. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We never do that? 25 MR. TROLINGER: No. And we talked about that, and 7-25-07 bwk 174 1 it just makes sense, even though it's a little bit more work. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Better to track it that way. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Each department, you know, each 4 entity, each office, it's reflected in there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I sure thought we did it the 6 other way. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He does it all, then he divides 8 it all up. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He says this department needs 11 this, this department needs that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. was how much for courthouse? 13 MR. TROLINGER: 2,000 -- excuse me. For the 14 courthouse, if we're talking about maintenance for the 15 courthouse, $1,091. And then we had planned on replacing the 16 Ag Barn computer at the same cost, 1,091. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we want $1,100 for the 18 courthouse? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: For I.T., and then Ag Barn, you're 21 going to put another computer out there? 22 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And then -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that included within the 5,000 24 that you originally requested, that I knocked back to 3,500, 25 Tim? 7-25-07 bwk 175 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 MR. TROLINGER: No, it was not. 3 MR. BOLLIER: No, it was not. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but -- 5 MR. BOLLIER: It was not, I'm sorry. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just carried over the 5,000 7 from prior year? 8 MR. BOLLIER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's included in -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the reason I knocked it back. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you knock it back 13 further. 2,800? What were the other things that you had in 14 there? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that'll give him 2,400 for -- and 16 if you look at the historical expenditures, 5,000, 3,700, 17 3,000. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it at 5,000, then, total? 19 3,500? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Or 4,500 maybe. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, 4,500. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Then did you want to put high-speed 23 or public access internet in the -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you put it? 25 MR. TROLINGER: -- Ag Barn? At the front office. 7-25-07 bwk 176 1 But then the wireless access point where the indoor hall is 2 at, to provide a good -- good coverage for that indoor -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we need that? 4 MR. TROLINGER: It's something that we can use -- 5 the County employees can use. And then the -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Give me an example, what we're 7 going to do. I mean, in his office? You mean on his -- on 8 the computer, using it right there? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. Yes, we have no internet 10 access whatsoever to the county network, period. Alyce 11 Davidson had been using her personal account to dial up to 12 connect to -- you know, to provide access. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Extension Office -- 14 she's the Extension Office. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Now she's in the Extension Office, 16 but when she was at the Ag Barn, she -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She had a little office in 18 there. That's what she had, was a dial-up. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, is there a 20 need to keep it for access out there? That's the question. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's talking about a new 22 access. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he's talking about new 24 access so if the Cutting Horse Association or the dog people 25 were out there, they can walk in there with their laptop and 7-25-07 bwk 177 1 plug into it and take care of whatever they need to do, as a 2 public service. I think we need to probably try to sell 3 coffee at that time. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we charge for this? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Starbucks coffee. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 7 MR. ALFORD: That's what I was thinking. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $2,200? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's not even that much. 10 MR. TROLINGER: No, it's -- the one-time the cost is 11 about $540. The recurring cost every month is about 70. 12 That's the telephone -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why haven't you done it? 14 MR. TROLINGER: No bucks, no Buck Rogers. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ooh. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. Kathy, get that quote, 17 "Oooooo." 18 MR. TROLINGER: But I think it would be a good 19 service to provide to the public. We've had -- at the 20 courthouse, we've -- I've had questions on that, which we do 21 not provide. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, yeah, add it in. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what are you talking about? 24 MR. TROLINGER: It is the Line Item 10-666 budget 25 for telephone, which is 420. That's historically where it's 7-25-07 bwk 178 1 been, for $70 per month. Which is -- Tim? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much do you want to add? 3 MS. HARGIS: $840. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 5 MS. HARGIS: $840 for $70 a month. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. Yes, 840. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 3,500? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And that will handle the 9 wiring too. 10 MS. HARGIS: The 3,500, though, where are you going 11 to put that? 12 MR. TROLINGER: And then for the 540, that's 569. 13 MR. BOLLIER: You're a good man, Mr. Trolinger. I 14 appreciate it, sir. 15 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up to 5,000 again. 17 MS. HARGIS: It's past 5,000. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Telephone's 3,500. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to have 500 and 4,500 to 20 get that -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Where do we have the 500? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the cost of the equipment 23 to get started. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under operating equipment? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7-25-07 bwk 179 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, I still have 5,000, so what do 2 y'all have? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We were down to 4,500, but now 4 we're back to 5,000 again. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We're back, so we caught up with you. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just leave it there. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Took us a while to get 9 there. We're back with you. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on maintenance, 13 gentlemen? I added District Attorneys and Information 14 Technology on the tail end. We dealt with those last time. 15 But I got the impression that there had been some outstanding 16 issues, so I added them. And I think what I gave you was a 17 new printout on the 216th District Attorney, which should be 18 under Number 8. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eight? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 MS. GRINSTEAD: These will be -- I gave you guys 22 clipped together that updated information for the four of 23 them. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: District Court, right? 7-25-07 bwk 180 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 198th, 216th. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got 198th. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There you are. What it looks like, 4 should be the third page on -- you should have gotten three 5 pages -- there you go. There you go. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 216th D.A. You got three 7 pages belatedly; two of them were reprints of District Court, 8 and the last page was District Attorney, 216th. There's some 9 penciled in -- 10 MS. GRINSTEAD: I did not have tab numbers on them 11 for you. They were with the group you got this morning, but 12 no tab numbers. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: These right here? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not it. There's a new one, 15 updated. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It had this cover sheet on it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know where I hid it. 18 I must have hid it from myself. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Since we got this new one, I have not 20 had the opportunity to talk with anybody at the D.A.'s office. 21 You'll note I've made some preliminary numbers on there, and 22 had given you some personnel percentage adjustments that 23 they're proposing. The one item that -- that has not been in 24 the mix previously is reimbursed travel. I know some of the 25 staff people were clamoring about that last year, because they 7-25-07 bwk 181 1 were having to drive their own personal vehicles to the 2 various court locations, and pack files and all that sort of 3 stuff, and felt it was unfair that they not be compensated for 4 that, and I tended to agree with them. So, we've -- they 5 finally got the D.A. to put that in. I've not had the 6 opportunity to talk to him about the numbers. We started with 7 2,500. As you can see, they showed through half a year 1,160. 8 I -- I don't know how that number progressed to almost double, 9 but I haven't talked with them. Just got it, as did you. We 10 may want to continue rolling that one forward for further 11 consideration. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I have not gotten a breakdown on 14 the -- the salary info, either. I intend to get that, though. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What did we have outstanding on the 17 I.T., John? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. After the I.T. -- the 19 first I.T. budget workshop, I received news that my -- my 20 helper at the Sheriff's Office, the training officer, 21 submitted his resignation. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 MR. TROLINGER: It was not unexpected, but I do have 24 a plan, and unfortunately, that plan is to hire someone, 25 another I.T. Department person. There's -- I don't see any 7-25-07 bwk 182 1 way around it. I've done, in the past, comparisons with other 2 counties of our size and our growth rate, and I find between 3 three and four I.T. persons in those departments. And we've 4 done a good job at holding down the costs by -- by having Brad 5 in the courthouse and Michael Earney at the Sheriff's Office. 6 But with Michael Earney's departure, I'm certain that -- that 7 we're going to need to have another person in I.T. to cover 8 that -- that 24-hour-a-day very demanding department. Besides 9 the Sheriff's Office, that person will cover Probation, 10 District Attorneys' offices, the Ag Barn, and soon to be Road 11 and Bridge when they come online, and probably help out more 12 at Juvenile Detention. Animal Control being another one, so 13 there are some other responsibilities besides just the 14 Sheriff's Office. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you talked with the Sheriff 16 about your plan? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Not the Sheriff, but with the 18 chief -- with Clay Barton, I have. The feeling I get is that 19 they're going to hire -- or reestablish the training officer 20 position at the jail, and keep the position and rehire for the 21 position that Michael Earney's vacating. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As a deputy or as an I.T. 23 person? 24 MR. TROLINGER: As a training officer. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A training officer. 7-25-07 bwk 183 1 MR. TROLINGER: So, his official position is 2 training officer. He handled communications, dispatch, -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Personnel. 4 MR. TROLINGER: -- personnel, nearly anything 5 technical. So, essentially, I understand from talking with 6 the chief that they're going to reestablish the training 7 position in the jail, replace Michael Earney for the Sheriff's 8 Department training officer, and I'm looking at one I.T. 9 person. So, three people for -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the Sheriff doesn't have -- 11 the Sheriff supports your man? 12 MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff, I don't know, but -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Clay? 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't want us to get in a 16 situation of getting ready to go out, hire another person, and 17 have the Sheriff hire a deputy, then make him another I.T. 18 person. 19 MR. TROLINGER: I don't see him doing that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may not see him do that, 22 but -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. But Michael 24 Earney is one of those rare birds that is going to be very 25 difficult for Rusty to find to replace, I can tell you. 7-25-07 bwk 184 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I like this plan 2 better, because I think -- I mean, you get the expertise 3 there; then we have deputies doing deputy work more. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. My only concern is -- 5 is that the guy should definitely be your employee, and he's 6 not fetching coffee for the Sheriff or doing secretarial work, 7 or -- I don't know. Do they -- would he do data entry for 8 reports and that kind of thing? Or -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: No. This -- this is I.T. This is 10 technology. We've got 24-hour demand from the dispatch center 11 and the jail. So, there's some on-call responsibility. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you'd draw up a job 13 description that's pretty airtight, and -- 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And I anticipate a long 15 process of finding the right person. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can see how it's needed. 17 How much -- how much -- let's pretend that you had to do that 18 job. How much -- what percentage of the overall job would be 19 at the jail -- or at the Law Enforcement Center? 20 MR. TROLINGER: 80 percent. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's a full-time, 24/7 22 deal, basically. 23 MR. TROLINGER: It's more than half the reason for 24 -- for hiring another I.T. person. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I see that as -- just 7-25-07 bwk 185 1 that -- I don't disagree with you. I see that as the Sheriff 2 using it as a reason why that's going to be his person, not 3 your person. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what we've got 5 to avoid. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I agree; we have to 7 avoid that. But we've talked about that. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. I think there are two 9 options for the I.T. budget. First option, the option that 10 I'd prefer, is to hire one person. I don't -- I see Grade 26 11 as being a requirement to get the person that I need, that has 12 the capability and that's going to withstand the demands. 13 Brad has knowledge of the Sheriff's Department. 14 MR. ALFORD: That's why Brad's over here for now. 15 MR. TROLINGER: We've discussed that. You know, 16 there's an option to hire two people at a lower range, but I 17 don't think that's practical. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be Brad and one 19 other? 20 MR. ALFORD: And Brad was the Michael Earney, so 21 that's why he's over here for now. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 23 MR. TROLINGER: I just made a quick comparison of a 24 few counties, and I think Hood County's probably the closest 25 growth rate and population wise. They have four in their I.T. 7-25-07 bwk 186 1 Department. And I'd rather not build a large department; I'd 2 rather have a high quality -- the high quality help that'll 3 stay until 8 p.m. or come in at 1 a.m. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much money are we talking 5 about? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Grade 26 is 40,704. But I have 7 shown on my -- on the I.T. budget spreadsheet that I forwarded 8 to y'all a total increase for next year of 56,189. That 9 includes everything; benefits, additional training, a 10 computer, everything it costs to hire and pay that person. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you anticipate 12 engaging the Sheriff in this tete-a-tete? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When he gets back from vacation. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which I think is this week, I 16 believe. 17 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Careful, Judge. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That'll teach Rusty to go on 20 vacation. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You need to get a -- get a 22 permit for a weapon? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, they've got my fingerprints; 24 there's only one step left, some paperwork. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7-25-07 bwk 187 1 MR. TROLINGER: But it's been needed for a while. 2 The users in the courthouse have been demanding me to, you 3 know, get some help in here to sit with us and -- and help us 4 out some more. I've resisted, to be as frank as I can. I 5 think the I.T. position is to serve the taxpayers, to get them 6 internet access to their data, to, you know, get the public 7 what they need, and as far as the users, provide them good 8 services and give them good equipment, but not baby-sit them. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only so far you can spread 10 yourself, too. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 261 is 40,000-what? We're 12 just at the discussion point. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 704. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 15 MR. ALFORD: Talking about baby-sitting, I came in 16 at 7:15 this morning and installed a mouse. So, I mean, 17 that's the type of baby-sitting John has to try to do. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No wonder you look so tired. 19 MR. ALFORD: Used to having to work for a living. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Installing a mouse. 21 MR. TROLINGER: But I wanted to get that on the 22 table, make sure it is clear before we got any further in the 23 process. That $57,189 is a substantial increase to the I.T. 24 budget. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the new -- I mean -- 7-25-07 bwk 188 1 MR. TROLINGER: Happens every year. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That 57 includes everything? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All the -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Rollups. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Hardware, turning the lights on, 7 giving them a desk. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got desks. Don't need one. 9 MR. TROLINGER: I tried to include everything, the 10 total cost of hiring that person. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, do we still have -- are 12 we still under contract with a company here in town to -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Gazelle. 14 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, but I do use them as part 15 of -- we have a couple of different ways of paying them 16 contract services. And, for instance, he was in Adult 17 Probation yesterday, and they're paying him from his budget. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they still just run over 19 and do -- install a mouse, that kind of thing? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Not that level. More along the 21 level of, "I've got an emergency and I've got to -- I've got 22 other things to do," or, "I need some professional help 23 pulling some wire." For instance, there's wire being run in 24 the courthouse. They just started the process of running it 25 in, and that's the contractor that's doing that. And, of 7-25-07 bwk 189 1 course, we have The Software Group and eDoc tech, and they're 2 our biggest contractor. Those are the software maintenance 3 line items that you see, and they provide the day-to-day tech 4 support for software system terms, the majority of it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do that from Plano? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Typically. Typically. 7 Occasionally, they'll be on-site, and I would value that 8 county-wide in the range of $110,000 per year is being worth a 9 database programmer and two additional people. Easily, the 10 cost of the contract money outweighs trying to hire people to 11 fill that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. We sure do spend 14 money. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any little gems to come 16 out today, gentlemen? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: While we're talking about all 19 these expenditures, maybe we ought to talk about some revenue. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't until we get the 21 numbers. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course, I can't -- from 23 what I read of the law saying that you can go up -- what is 24 it, $10 on your registration fee? That doesn't go in -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't pass. 7-25-07 bwk 190 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't pass? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Did not pass, no. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it did. Doggone it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We checked on it, and it -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was hopeful. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It didn't get out of the gate good. 7 I see Kathy's here about the County Court at Law budget. That 8 was first up this morning. 9 MS. GAULDEN: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, excuse me, I have a 11 medical appointment. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 (Commissioner Williams left the courtroom.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's Tab 5. I've been over 15 virtually everything with Kathy on that. Where I've made 16 adjustments, I think it's something that they can live with. 17 She understands that personnel issues are something that's 18 going to be looked at after we get the tax rolls. I -- 19 MS. GAULDEN: I just mainly wanted to make an 20 appearance in case you had any questions or anything for me. 21 So, I'm sorry about not being here this morning. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think this is the best time to be 23 here. Everybody's so wore down and frazzled that -- that 24 that's all you need to do, is make an appearance. 25 MS. GAULDEN: Okay. 7-25-07 bwk 191 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But we've pretty well been through 2 everything there, so no problem with that. Thank you. 3 MS. GAULDEN: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sir? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned revenue. 7 There's -- there's some -- some possibilities that I'm 8 investigating. I'm really not in a position to give you much 9 of anything at this point, because I don't know the legal 10 basis, but there may be some new possibilities. Hopefully I'm 11 have that one in the next couple of weeks. Could mean 12 something. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're just as much in 14 suspense as I am. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's going to offer to cut his 17 pay, is what he's saying. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Actually, he might need an 20 increase. I was thinking about asking about a $20,000 21 increase for him this year. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For the Judge? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, for the Judge. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He can always ask, you know. 7-25-07 bwk 192 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's like that -- the baked 2 bean commercials, one of the funniest things I've ever seen. 3 He says -- the dog asks the guy, says, "When are you going to 4 give me the ingredients of the secret deal?" And he said, 5 "Well, when pigs fly." And next thing, this dog's got this 6 pig up there with some -- on the roof of the house. "Now, 7 just buzz the house over there. That'll do it." 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? Okay. Let's 9 fold it up. Let's adjourn. 10 (Budget workshop adjourned at 2:56 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 17 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 18 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 19 heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 24th day of 21 August, 2007. 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 7-25-07 bwk