1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, August 1, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 1, 2007 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2007-08 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto, for various County Departments, including, but not limited to the following departments: 5 Sheriff's Office/Jail 3 6 Courthouse Security 63 DPS 74 7 Road and Bridge 84 County Clerk 123 8 Juvenile Detention Facility 136 Juvenile Probation Department 155 9 Environmental Health 172 Animal Control 184 10 Extension Service 203 County-Sponsored 215 11 Collections 234 Human Resources 236 12 --- Adjourned 260 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, August 1, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come to order at this 8 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court, to 9 continue to consider budgetary matters. The workshop is 10 scheduled for this time and date, Wednesday, August 1, 2007, 11 at 9 a.m. It is that time now. On previous workshops, we 12 haven't used the podium, and I don't know whether -- how 13 convenient it is for the reporter. Sometimes there's a lot of 14 other comments from back into the room, whether the reporter's 15 able to -- to see those people and to clearly hear them. Does 16 the podium create a problem for you? 17 THE REPORTER: If it does, I'll say so. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, fine. The first -- first 19 department we have on the agenda is the Sheriff's Office. And 20 that puts us -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 17. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 17, okay. As the Court can see, I 23 haven't made any suggestions with regard to any of the 24 personnel issues or -- or capital outlay. I have made some 25 adjustments to some of the requests in between those two at 8-1-07 bwk 4 1 the top and the bottom. I was advised that the Live Scan 2 fingerprint system that was mentioned at 53,000 is not an 3 issue, because apparently there were at least two different 4 jurisdictions that were issued, I suppose, or provided with 5 those -- with that equipment that don't even have jails. 6 And -- and the state has now discovered that maybe they can 7 redistribute those machines to those that -- that do have 8 jails that need them, and it's my understanding that under 9 that arrangement, we're supposed to get one of those Live Scan 10 items; is that correct? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's my understanding. They 12 haven't delivered it yet, but we're supposed to get it. Now, 13 that's in the jail budget in capital outlay, is where that -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- 50-some thousand is figured 16 in. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I made a note of it in 18 the bottom of your budget, which you can probably see. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, take it off? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I don't think it's included in 21 any of the numbers. Is it in the capital outlay? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is included. The 23 capital outlay in the jail, as I proposed it, was $69,007, 24 okay? Actually, that -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're reducing that by 53, which 8-1-07 bwk 5 1 would make it 16,000. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well $12,007 of that 69 is for 3 some improvements in the cameras and where cameras are in the 4 jail, and then there were going to be a couple radio issues 5 that I was going to try and replace another -- you know, so 6 actually, $13,007 is what I need in that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The rest of it would have been 9 because of that Live Scan. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 13,5 should handle those items, then? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Let's get back to the 13 Sheriff's Department, then. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Judge, we could just 15 write "no" in all those lines and go on to the next issue. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You certainly could. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple of 18 questions. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Under Sheriff's Department, 21 560-208, Investigation Expense, I see that's come down -- or 22 your recommendation, Judge, is it's come down considerably. 23 What's the story there? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would disagree with lowering 25 that from what I had. 8-1-07 bwk 6 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask the Judge why he 2 came down. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me find it -- 208, okay. I came 4 down on that because, looking at the historical use, the 5 Auditor has indicated that based upon current expenditures, 6 that it's going to be about a little over 7,500 this year. It 7 was budgeted at 10 last year; didn't even use -- or he's not 8 programmed to use that much based upon the information 9 available to me. I put a little float factor in there and put 10 it in at 8,500. That was my rationale. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Reasonable. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. My rationale for not 13 doing that is, I put down some of the things that we were 14 going to need, some computer costs. We had to add another 15 computer in there to cover evidentiary photographs and things 16 like that. We had an expense just last month of about $700 17 just to reproduce photographs for the D.A. in one of their 18 trials that we ended up paying out of that. There was a list 19 of -- a wish list type deal of different items that we need in 20 investigations, and then when we added the narcotics unit on. 21 That also adds other items that have to be -- packages sent 22 off and everything else as far as lab analysis, and just the 23 growing costs and never knowing what type of investigations 24 we're going to end up in. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said you made copies 8-1-07 bwk 7 1 of -- for the -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- D.A.? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, copies of photographs. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else do you do for the 6 D.A.'s office? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We make copies of C.D.'s, or on 8 confessions, copies of video tapes for confessions, and all 9 that's at our expense. And all that comes out of the -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't it in his budget? 11 Why doesn't he do it? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that's a good question, 13 but, you know, we've always had to do it. The other thing is, 14 we pay for all the sexual assault exams, and I think all of 15 y'all are aware that sexual assault cases have kind of 16 skyrocketed over the last couple years. We have to pay for 17 those out-of-pocket first. Now, what you don't see in that 18 line item is, a lot of times we will get reimbursed for those 19 from the Attorney General's office, but that takes a while, 20 and when we do, it goes back in the jail fund. You don't see 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do most sheriff's departments 23 around the state pay for D.A.'s work? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no idea. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you choose to do it? 8-1-07 bwk 8 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's not whether I choose 2 to do it or not. Historically in this county, both D.A.'s 3 before didn't have that type of expenditure account. They 4 didn't have investigators, and most of the time -- or in 5 history, you know, your Sheriff's Office or your police 6 department -- we're not the only one; if it's a P.D. case, 7 they've been having to do the same thing. They have to pay 8 for helping prepare that case for -- for trial. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Well, both D.A.'s now have the 10 equipment and investigators to -- in-house to make those 11 copies. What they're doing, I believe, is making copies for 12 attorneys and whatnot once they receive your copy, right? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They may make duplicates for 14 the attorneys. But a lot of it, like on this last trial that 15 they had, the assistant D.A. requested actual -- not just the 16 digital photographs that we could print out on the computer, 17 but to have those photographs -- those digital ones made into 18 regular photographs from, I guess, H.E.B. or whatever we did 19 for courtroom displays. And a lot of times, your D.A.'s will 20 go through it and say, "Well, only get me this, this and 21 this," while this one says, "I want all of them." So, it 22 ended up being a cost of over $700 to get photographs 23 reproduced for court purposes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you choose to do it 25 that way, that's one thing, but I don't think it reflects an 8-1-07 bwk 9 1 accurate -- accurate budget. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's all part of the 3 investigation. And, you know, where it comes from, it -- law 4 enforcement's job is to get the case presented to the D.A. and 5 get it ready for trial, okay? So, my point is that if this is 6 the evidence that we have locked up in our deal, that they 7 need, okay, I could just give them one disk and say, "Y'all 8 figure it out," but one way or another, it's got to be done. 9 And we have done it forever since I've been in law enforcement 10 in this county, 27 years. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you've given us some -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Those are just some of the 13 other things. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm trying to figure out who they're 15 coming from. There's a statement in here, "Note, I would be 16 willing to pay for the cost of the mask if Sheriff's Office 17 would replace cartridges." Who's "I"? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, that was probably John 19 Lavender. What I did in preparing my budget, and what I do 20 every year is I send out to those departments that that 21 affects. This is John Lavender in C.I.D.; mainly affects the 22 investigation expense. And I say, "What are y'all going to 23 need for the next year?" And -- 'cause you can see, I made 24 notes on those lists where some -- I said okay, and programmed 25 it in. One of the last ones on the last page was a fancier 8-1-07 bwk 10 1 computer system to be able to do fingerprints, and I said no. 2 $4,000 expenditure on that. We're not going to do that, okay? 3 So, those are work product, Judge. I just wanted you to be 4 able to see how I come to the figures, and -- and the 5 additions we need. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the "I would be willing," that's 7 out of your same budget, isn't it? I mean, it's out of the 8 Sheriff's Office budget, isn't it? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What that is, where he 10 says he's willing to -- that's being willing to pay for it out 11 of his own pocket if I wouldn't put it in the budget. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think he should be obliged to 13 do that. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, so that's why -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It creates some confusion for me to 16 know, you know, which pocket we were dealing with. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're dealing with all 18 investigative expense, and that's just some of the additional 19 things that we're going to need, like the -- the fingerprint 20 tape, fingerprint powder, more and more of it, and the costs 21 and the labeling and all that kind of stuff. And the C.D.'s, 22 you know, DVD's. We were using a lot of just regular C.D.'s 23 to put confession tapes and all that on, and those are not 24 working out well. They're -- the quality is not good enough 25 for the D.A.'s, so we've had to go to DVD's to download those 8-1-07 bwk 11 1 onto, which is a lot more expense also. And investigative 2 expense is something -- I don't know what crimes are going to 3 happen, so I have to kind of project it, program it in. And, 4 as the Judge even pointed out, this year we didn't use it all; 5 it comes back to the Court. We don't go and just spend it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But it also allocates -- it also 7 allocates funds that shouldn't be allocated to a particular 8 budget if there's not a likelihood that they'll be used. And 9 what it does, it prevents other departments from receiving 10 adequate consideration for their requests that maybe are 11 realistic requests. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, Judge, the thing is, I 13 don't know, okay? Some of this is foreseen, so I go from past 14 experience, past expenses, and try and program this in, all 15 right? It's not a blanket deal. I would rather have it 16 programmed in than have to come back to this Court with budget 17 amendments like we've had to do a lot this year, 'cause we cut 18 too short last year. I think this puts a bigger burden on 19 everything than -- than having it programmed to where you can 20 do it correctly to begin with and have the funds to do what 21 you need to. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I disagree with that, the 23 philosophy. I mean, I am and always have been very much 24 against budgeting worst case scenario, because history has 25 shown in this county that that doesn't happen to us generally, 8-1-07 bwk 12 1 and if it does, I mean, we always have excess in -- in 2 employee line items county-wide, because we never stay 100 3 percent staffed, so there's always -- we build in a little bit 4 of excess just by the nature of the way we do our -- our 5 employees. So, you know, granted, we don't know if you're 6 going to spend more on, you know, investigation expense or if 7 the Court's going to spend it on indigent defense. We don't 8 know where it's going to go. We just know what it's going to 9 cost. So, I would rather do some budget amendments during the 10 year, as opposed to try to fund every line item to avoid 11 budget amendments. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Your current -- your current -- the 14 current budget year, the projection by the Auditor, based upon 15 the expenditures made through the date of the information 16 furnished, indicates that your actual expenditures are going 17 to be about $100,000 less than -- than what was originally 18 budgeted in your budget for this year. It occurs to me that 19 there are a number of other departments that would have liked 20 to have had the availability for some things in their budgets 21 that they felt like they had a real, real need for. You know, 22 with -- if we budget worst case scenario, Sheriff, and stack 23 this thing as high as the ceiling, I suspect that we're going 24 to be put in a position of going to the taxpayers and say, 25 because of the anticipated increased expenditures, we may have 8-1-07 bwk 13 1 to have a tax increase. You know, what I want to know is, are 2 you going to be at the head of the column to tell these 3 taxpayers that they need to support this tax increase? That 4 -- that there's all that -- all these compelling needs in your 5 office that may be, at least in part, responsible for -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, I don't think I asked 7 out of line on this. If you'll look back to the '04-'05 8 budget, what was actually spent in investigations was $14,801, 9 okay? Now, in '05-'06 and '06-'07, we're a little bit better; 10 we budgeted 10,000 on those. But what -- what I've asked for 11 was not the $14,801 that we had spent even as far back as 12 '04-'05. I asked for $13,640 in my budget. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the more historical -- 14 historically accurate figures are 6,300 in the immediate 15 preceding year, and this year's estimate of expenditure of 16 $7,600, Sheriff. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's this year's estimate, 18 okay? And two years ago, it was 14,000 actually spent. So, 19 what I've done is go in between and try and project out to the 20 best of my ability about what we might spend without 21 underbudgeting and causing a problem in a budgeting deal and 22 having to come back to the Court for budget amendments. So, 23 what I asked for was 13,640, and what you recommend was 8,500. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there some middle ground? 25 The Judge is giving you an increase over where your 8-1-07 bwk 14 1 anticipated year end is going to be, and you're at 13,6. Is 2 there some middle ground in here so we -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Change -- leave it what 4 it was budgeted for this current year, which was 10,000, if 5 that's what you feel. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't -- the mind-set that 7 you go down through a budget, and if you are not going to 8 spend more than you did last year, even though you may -- it 9 may have been twice what you needed, say, "Well, we'll just 10 leave that the same," that's not budgeting. That's laziness, 11 in my opinion. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not trying -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's look at -- I'm not suggesting 14 that that's the case here, but we traditionally get a mind-set 15 of just leaving -- leave it the same. And we'll see -- we'll 16 see a lot of instances where there will be an amount budgeted 17 and absolutely zero spent, and we'll get a budget summary 18 analysis from a department that'll say no change, and they 19 want the same amount for the coming year. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In my case -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not budgeting. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In my case, Judge, I don't 23 think you can ever say you've got a summary from me that says 24 no change. I have looked at it. I look at what our projected 25 expenses are; I go back to two years before that, even look at 8-1-07 bwk 15 1 what, you know, we had done over the last few years. True, 2 this current year, okay, we have not had that bad of expense 3 out of investigations. We had no murders in this county, 4 thank goodness, okay, in this current year, and so 5 investigation expenses were down. We have budgeted $10,000. 6 Last year investigation expenses were down. But I will not 7 budget $6,000, and then we end up with one murder case over 8 the next 12 months, and I'm out of the budget right out of the 9 -- right out of the box. I have to look at things like the 10 list I gave y'all on what supplies we're going to need. We've 11 added, like I said, another computer back there in the -- in 12 the evidence tech's room. There's the cost of operating that 13 computer, the cost of doing photographs, more things going to 14 trial. And in '04-'05 we were at 14,000; this year we're way 15 below that, okay. And I do the best I can to look at it. 16 Now, I put it at 13,640. You've adjusted it to 8,500. I 17 can't tell you where exactly we're going to end up. None of 18 us can, 'cause we don't know. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, have you ever had the 20 problem, if you had a -- had a legitimate need and you didn't 21 have money your budget, have you ever had a problem coming to 22 this Court, explaining what that need is, and being turned 23 away, not given that money? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-1-07 bwk 16 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, I won't say I have, 2 unless you want to add more personnel. (Laughter.) But -- no. 3 But I also do not like to come to this Court asking for budget 4 amendments when I should have done a better job at budget time 5 to keep them from happening. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think anybody in county 7 government likes to come to ask for budget amendments, but 8 when all of the -- when all of the room is taken up by one or 9 two departments, I think that's detrimental to the other 10 departments that may also have as legitimate, or in some 11 cases, more legitimate needs for excess funds over that which 12 they had expended or possibly budgeted. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not saying I'm even asking 14 for excess funds, okay? Look at the past history over the 15 number of years. I do not believe asking for $13,600 for 16 investigation expense is asking for extra funds or asking for 17 pie in the sky or anything, or just, you know, floating. I'm 18 looking at what we have, what we have expenditures on and what 19 we can anticipate, and what the history has shown. Not just 20 in the last year, 'cause we didn't have any murders. Very 21 fortunate. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, maybe our philosophy is 23 different. I think that -- I think the current year and the 24 immediate preceding year is probably a little bit more 25 accurate forecaster than going back two or more years. But I 8-1-07 bwk 17 1 don't recall getting an answer to my question, whether or not 2 you were going to be at the head of the column explaining to 3 the taxpayers. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I have to have more funds, 5 then I'll be perfectly honest; if it took more funds to have 6 to do law enforcement effectively and efficiently, and 7 effectively investigate cases and get DNA stuff done, I don't 8 believe that my constituents in this county would object too 9 much for us having the funds to be able to do that. Okay? We 10 have to be able to provide effective law enforcement. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That wasn't my question, Sheriff. My 12 question was, will you be at the head of the column, out 13 front, selling it to the taxpayers that there's a need for 14 this, and part of the need arises by virtue of the needs of 15 your office? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, I have always presented 17 to you a very realistic budget, and then we sit down and we go 18 over them and we, you know, adjust and normally come to it. 19 I'm not going to sit here and play politics with my budget, 20 not with you, okay? I'm presenting you a realistic budget. 21 This is what I've asked for. I have -- I know my reasons for 22 asking for it, and I'm not going to play politics. This is 23 the funds that -- that I feel I need to operate this 24 department. I have not gone back as I could have in many 25 years, okay? The Court did a long-range planning committee 8-1-07 bwk 18 1 deal for the Sheriff's Office. That was supposed to be done. 2 Every Commissioner at that time appointed members to that 3 committee, okay? In 2002, the jail personnel budget -- and 4 personnel alone was -- should have been, by recommendations, 5 and the Court accepted this, at 73 people. I have 38 6 employees in the jail. I don't think I've ever asked for 7 much. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the date of that report? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a long-range planning 10 committee in May of 2001. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it was supposed to be over 13 the next five years, and at that time, the jail alone should 14 have been -- should have been 73 people. And then in 2003, 15 they recommended an additional four more jailers, transport, 16 booking clerk, and control room. 2004, four more jailers, 17 transport, booking, prisoner services, control room. And in 18 2005, four more jailers, transport, booking, control room. 19 And you've got this report, and you have what the 20 recommendations were at that time, okay? And we've able to 21 make do and come up with stuff. So, this -- you know, as far 22 as growth and employees, I haven't asked for them either, 23 okay? This was recommendations done by a committee. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How do you add more jailers 25 whenever your jail hasn't grown? Hasn't expanded? 8-1-07 bwk 19 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My jail population -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have a certain number of 3 people you can have in the jail, a certain population, and 4 that population and the staff is determined by -- by the state 5 Jail Commission. So, how would you add more jailers to a jail 6 that's already staffed? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The staffing, if you'd like to 8 come out there and look, the thing is, yes, we meet minimum 9 jail standards, staffing one jail guard to every 48 inmates. 10 Okay? That does not take in your control room people, your 11 booking people. It takes longer. Your medical cases where 12 you have jailers sitting over at the hospital two and three 13 weeks at a time, 24 hours a day. There's a lot of things that 14 grow. Medical conditions of inmates, as y'all know, has 15 grown. You know, attitudes, violence in the jail has grown. 16 That takes additional staff to control all that stuff as the 17 jail grows. Back at that time, we were running a lot of them; 18 there was 130, 135 inmates in that jail, okay? Yesterday it 19 was 175. It goes up. I've seen it up to over 200. One of 20 the things even when we had the jail analysis done, they were 21 -- they projected that in 2007, we'd be running 175, and we 22 should have the larger jail at that time. When we have a jail 23 that gets that type of crowded, get more and more gang, more 24 and more of your violence, we're not ending up with as many of 25 our misdemeanor small cases any more; you're ending up with 8-1-07 bwk 20 1 more of your serious ones, the ones that throw fecal matter on 2 jailers every time they go around; you know, the ones that 3 bite jailers. In fact, look at our statistics this year on 4 the number of felony charges that we have filed on inmates for 5 assaulting jail staff compared to any other year in the past, 6 and you will find it has probably tripled this year alone. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess the point to this, I'm 8 really trying to make -- my next point, anyway, is that you 9 never have a full staff of jailers anyway, so approving more 10 positions isn't going to solve anything, in my opinion. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I'd asked for one position 12 for training, okay? But I would disagree with you on that, 13 all right, for one reason. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you think if we approve 15 more positions, -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That I haven't asked -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- that you'll be able to hire 18 more people, when you can't hire them with the staff that you 19 have approved? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can't keep them. We can hire 21 people. The problem is, you can't keep them. When you're 22 working these people 12 hours a day, okay, they get three days 23 off. It works out, they normally get more time off, but 24 you're constantly calling them back into work, because we're 25 hauling 60, 70 inmates to court all those days. We're 8-1-07 bwk 21 1 overworking, we're burning these people out, because they're 2 all running that full 12 hours. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That still doesn't answer the 4 question of why you have a position approved and unfilled, and 5 then you -- the report says you need more and more and more. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, I've hired -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't make sense to me. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've hired three jailers in the 9 last month, and I've lost two. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right? That's where it 12 makes sense. When you lose the two -- and I can show you the 13 resignation letters where they're just burnt out, all right? 14 If you can keep those from burning -- being burnt out -- we're 15 not talking salaries. This Court's done fabulous on helping 16 them with salary, but when you burn them out because you're 17 just working them too much, because you are short -- whether 18 you're fully staffed or not, you're short, okay? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, but what I see is you're 20 not fully staffed. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we get those added to it, 22 okay, you get those people and you get that base up, then 23 you're not burning those people out. It's not a quick fix. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but the thing is, you're 25 still not -- you still don't have the staff hired that you 8-1-07 bwk 22 1 have approved by this Court. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And, so, my point is, putting 4 more positions is not going to cure the problem. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it does. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, since 2001, you have managed 7 to operate the jail, have you not? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And have done so quite admirably, 10 based upon the reports from the Commission on Jail Standards. 11 I've been participating in a number of those since I've been 12 here, and your -- your reports from the Commission on Jail 13 Standards have always been absolutely right at the top. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: In some instances, they have found, 16 in spite of looking very, very hard, absolutely no 17 deficiencies -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the operation. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, had this Court followed that 22 long-term recommendation out there at the jail, what would 23 have been accomplished, other than a humongous cost to the 24 taxpayers of hiring all these additional people that this 25 report recommended, from the 38 that you're talking about up 8-1-07 bwk 23 1 to the 75 plus the four, plus the four, plus the four, however 2 long that went on? You'd have had twice the number of people, 3 which translates to probably twice the number of headaches, 4 but -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: True. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the cost would have been 7 exponentially increased, but still, the operation or your jail 8 was totally in compliance and -- and given glowing reports 9 from the Commission on Jail Standards. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The biggest -- if even half of 11 the recommendations of that committee had been followed, the 12 biggest difference you would have probably seen, Judge, is a 13 lot less turnover in your jail, because you would not be 14 burning those employees out by constantly working them that 15 much, okay? That is your biggest deal, the efficiency. And 16 when you don't have the turnover and you're not retraining 17 people, you know -- like, when I hire one, there's a 16-week 18 training program that person goes through. It's not -- you 19 can't just step in and do it. The costs associated with that 20 are where you start saving your money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what I'm hearing you say is, had 22 -- had we authorized the number of slots called for in that 23 report, you would have had enough of those slots filled 24 that -- all of them that you now have authorized, but which 25 you've been unable to fill, you would have had all those 8-1-07 bwk 24 1 filled so that the call-back for doing double shifts, partial 2 shifts, that kind of business, would not be near as prevalent 3 as it is now? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The call-back -- I won't say I 5 would have every position filled; you're always going to have 6 some openings in the jail, because jailers want to go on and 7 move up to be officers somewhere. With some departments, you 8 know, it's a starting -- stepping stone. In a county like 9 this, we're a training ground in a lot of ways. But what you 10 do save a lot on, number one, is the turnover, because you 11 don't have that many people in training constantly, all right? 12 It's the calling them in to sit at the hospital 24 hours a 13 day, 7 days a week, when you have one in ICU for two weeks or 14 something. It's the call-in two to three times a week, every 15 court day, because you need people in the courtroom to help 16 with the number of inmates you have there, and transporting 17 them back and forth. And it's the -- what you don't see is 18 what other members of the department have to do in the 19 Sheriff's Office part to go back and fill in and help the jail 20 and things like that to get some of their stuff. It's just an 21 efficiency and an adequate staffing. And, Judge, I'm not here 22 to complain. I have not, as you -- as you know, okay? We 23 have done a lot of the technical stuff and everything that we 24 could possibly do, and this Court has; you know, radio system, 25 computer system upgrades, all -- all the other things have 8-1-07 bwk 25 1 been met in this long-range plan, okay? And if I would have 2 wanted to come in here and ask for 10 new jailers every year 3 for the last, you know, three years, I could have done that. 4 I did not do that, and I'm not saying I want to do that, 5 because we do a good job, as you state. But we are burning 6 out. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I make a comment? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me hit the technical issue, if I 9 might just a moment. We have, in -- in the I.T. budget for 10 this year, we're going to hopefully set up a trial video 11 teleconferencing between the courthouse and the jail, to 12 utilize that in connection with some of the court procedures 13 dealing with the inmates in your jail. That's going to help 14 on your staffing issue of having to call in people, 15 transporting groups of these prisoners back and forth to the 16 courthouse, will it not? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Possibly. I don't -- I 18 couldn't say at this point whether it will or not, okay? It's 19 a possibility. The difference is, there will have to be a lot 20 of other things, because those court days, all right, where 21 they're going to have to set it up in that one multipurpose 22 room that we have out there for doing things. Which, when you 23 do that, you're running court out of that multipurpose room, 24 you know, every -- all day long. Then you're having to reset 25 other deals such as visitations, such as attorney visits, such 8-1-07 bwk 26 1 as our church service, such as our G.E.D., you know, program 2 and all to later on in the day, later on in the hours where 3 you don't have that room. We only have one room to use for 4 all that stuff. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a courtroom out there as 6 part of the facility. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not going to run visitation 8 in the courtroom, attorney visits. You know, if you, you 9 know, have to set up that deal, then you've got to have a 10 guard with that inmate, and it's no different than having him 11 over here. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? It's a security -- 14 courtroom's not secure. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't have to transport him, 16 number one, and you're probably going to have little or no 17 contact with family members with contraband issues and such as 18 that. Wouldn't that be the case, probably? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We even have problems with that 20 here now, where the restrooms have to be searched first, 21 'cause they want to go in a restroom. You have that problem 22 out there. That's -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand about that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I was going to bring up 25 that point. I think that the -- I mean, and you've worked 8-1-07 bwk 27 1 with the Court, and the Court's worked with you on trying to 2 work with the -- the upstairs courts to help the jail issue, 3 and I think we're making some headway there. Back to where we 4 were before we started on your budget. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've gone through -- haven't 7 done the exact math, but I would tend to agree with the 8 Judge's reductions on all your categories where he reduced. 9 But I also acknowledge that you don't know -- I mean, we're 10 going off of historical use. If you look at the average for 11 the last -- back in 2003, which date as far back as I have up 12 to the projected year-end, I think what the Judge has is 13 pretty close with most of his. But the other side of that, I 14 would -- my recommendation would be to go to Miscellaneous 15 line item, which is unused, and has been unused for some time, 16 and put a $10,000 amount into that line item to cover and 17 acknowledge that we're doing a little bit closer budgeting, 18 and then you have flexibility there. I mean, granted, it 19 takes budget amendments, but there's money there that could go 20 into some of these categories. I think that would save 21 overall, but yet give you some flexibility. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem. I've just 23 always stayed away from a miscellaneous deal, because -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- it's like having -- 8-1-07 bwk 28 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's like -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- a petty cash fund. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Slush. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I think that in your 5 budget, because you obviously have one of the largest budgets, 6 the impact of estimating slightly on the high side or 7 realistic side, whatever you want to call it, the impact 8 becomes $100,000 real quick. Whereas if we put it in 9 Miscellaneous line item, I think that it, you know, gives you 10 some assurance that the money's available in your budget, 11 pretty much at your discretion. That's what I'd recommend we 12 do. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Another option, sure. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I continue my questions? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I'm sorry. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all right. So, I 17 guess on the investigation expense, the difference between the 18 Judge and the Sheriff, I guess we have to address this thing 19 Letz just brought up. But I want to go on down. Uniforms, 20 you decreased that by half, and you base that on the 21 historical use as well? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And the same -- 24 vehicle gas and oil. That could be a little bit different 25 story, I think. 8-1-07 bwk 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's a -- there's a pretty 2 good float in there. If you'll recall, during this particular 3 budget year, we've had some high fuel prices, even higher than 4 they are right now, for a good portion of this budget year. 5 And so the -- the 94,000, you know, that's over a $20,000 6 increase there, which is better than 20 percent over and above 7 that projected use. You know, I think I've made adequate -- 8 adequate allowance for a cushion there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm not disagreeing 10 with you at all. I just -- I think we need to have a 11 conversation. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I, you know, have it clear 14 in my mind. Do you want to rebut that? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one is -- is, again, one 16 of those that none of us can really know what's happening. If 17 you look at '05-'06, okay, we spent $113,069 in gas, and the 18 Judge was wanting to cut it to $115,000. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on this year. But, by 20 the same token, though, everything I've read in various 21 journals says that we're looking at the potential of 22 $100-a-barrel oil, which tells you the pump price is going to 23 go up considerably over the course of the next 12 months. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I put in for $130,000, just 25 from what I've read and looked at, that I wanted to try to 8-1-07 bwk 30 1 make sure we had enough gas and oil. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is one of the true 3 unknowns. It depends on what happens in the Middle East. I 4 mean -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, not just the Middle East; a lot 7 of places. Look at Venezuela. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the Middle East is still -- 9 at the current time, still drives the price of oil. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This current year, we had 11 budgeted $125,000. We're not going to use all that; we've 12 done real well, but the next year I upped it $5,000 to 13 $130,000, because I just was unsure. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I still think the 115 is fine. 15 If you get in a jam and you run out of gasoline, I think you 16 can come back to this Court for a budget amendment out of some 17 other line items that are going to have excesses in them. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many -- Sheriff -- Buster, 19 do you want to keep on going down the list? Or can you -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I want to make a comment 21 on your -- on your slush fund idea, though. I -- I'm not -- 22 and I'm really not sure if that's the proper way to go, or do 23 we try to build a real budget up front, line item by line 24 item? Something says to me that we should, today, put in the 25 proposed number in each line item, as opposed to setting aside 8-1-07 bwk 31 1 a chunk of money, and then spend it as we go along. I just 2 don't know what's right or wrong there. But it seems to me 3 building a budget up front, you attempt to put the proper 4 numbers in, to just -- that's the way it appears to me. 5 That's the way I've always looked at a budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it also -- it -- I think it's a 7 restraint tool. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That when these departments are 10 looking at their budget, they tend to be more restrained, more 11 cautious in -- in their activities. Certainly, we don't want 12 them to not do what they're required by law to do, but I think 13 it also operates as a -- as a restraint tool so that if 14 they've got a wild cushion, you know, on the end of it, you 15 know, they're going to -- the tendency is not going to be to 16 be very cautious and conservative. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would suggest that most of our 18 other budgets have a slight miscellaneous line item. If we 19 look at -- the budget's $3.6 million; if we factor in the 20 percentage at 10 percent -- I mean, a percentage, 10,000 is 21 probably as small or lower than any other department gets. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: In the whole scheme of things, that's 23 a -- a pretty small contingency. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause his budget, I mean, it's 25 like -- or the next one; if you go to Road and Bridge back in 8-1-07 bwk 32 1 the back, I mean, those two, you know, that's where -- they 2 take up more than all the other departments combined. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you know, if we're 4 debating whether or not to put $10,000 in a contingency fund, 5 why not give the Sheriff what he's asking for in his line 6 item? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because that's 100,000. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's less than the 10,000. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's 100,000. It's probably 10 closer to -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's 137,000. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a bunch, if you start 13 adding up all the little ones. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm only talking about 15 investigative expense. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're including in the 100,000 17 the cost of vehicles. It's not just 100 -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just going with last 19 year's budget, as opposed to what you've asked for this year. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you didn't have the 21 vehicles last year you have this year, so there's -- you're 22 talking, in reality, between 10,000 and 20,000 increase in all 23 the line items except for, like, the capital outlay. And that 24 is all your -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are going off down the 8-1-07 bwk 33 1 bunny trails again. The -- I think -- I guess probably my 2 main point is that, yes, at the end of the year, when we start 3 on next year's budget, we'll be able to see what was spent. 4 You know, if we go into the slush fund and move it over line 5 by line by line, we'll be able to see that. But I -- again, I 6 don't know if that's the proper way to do that. I would -- I 7 would hope that we can show the taxpaying public that comes in 8 here October 1st to take a look at the budget, that they can 9 see what we have put in the lines. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're doing that. I 11 mean, to call $10,000 out of a $3.6 million budget a huge 12 slush fund is totally inaccurate. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not calling $10,000 14 a huge slush fund. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But, I mean -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm calling it a slush fund. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I prefer putting it 18 where it belongs, and I don't like the designation "slush 19 fund." So -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then go with -- then let's 21 put 20,000 back in the other line items and spend 10,000 more. 22 I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm for leaving the 20,000 out 24 and leaving the other 10 out, and let's see what happens. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. Where is the 20? 8-1-07 bwk 34 1 Where is the 20? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's another option. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, there's a third option 4 here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but that's where they are. 6 Investigative expense is down almost 5,000. 500 down in 7 employee medical exams, 500 down in postage, 1,000 down in 8 office supplies, 5,000 down in uniforms, 1,000 down in 9 operating expense, 15,000 down in -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: About 42,5 total. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So that's -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Excluding the capital. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, it's -- you know, we 14 can go back to each one and divide it up a little bit. I 15 mean, I think -- I don't want a budget so tight that we're not 16 accurate, but I don't want to overbudget either. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, in the past experience, 18 in the last few months there has been money taken -- taken in 19 budget amendments, transferred out of his budget to other 20 budgets that were short, and I think he's still going to be 21 okay at the end of the year. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's over employees, jail 23 employees, which is accurate. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because you didn't have 25 positions filled that were -- 8-1-07 bwk 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have them filled today. I 2 can't -- you know, those are the unknowns. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to budget for those 5 conditions. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have never, in my time -- 7 from eight years of my prior service, and already six months 8 into this time, I have never seen the jailer's line item 9 completely expended in a year's time of what was appropriated. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't think you ever 11 will. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably not. That's my 13 point. And there's money there to -- if you get in a jam on 14 other things. That's just my little pea-brain thought. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we talk about 105 and 16 107 under the Sheriff's? Secretary salary and dispatchers? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you talking about 19 there, Sheriff? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The difference in there is what 21 occurred during the budget year. Part of it, the dispatchers, 22 we got hired -- remember, last year we went to a total of ten 23 dispatchers instead of seven. And then we added the one more 24 clerk by doing away with the one other position, and that 25 combined that into secretary, actually. And then any other 8-1-07 bwk 36 1 increase in there is just the longevity. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your personnel portion -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't given any raises or 4 asked for anything -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- in there. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The number -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's no cost-of-living, 9 there's no nothing. It's either the increase on longevity or 10 educational, or just where the positions are. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And the number of personnel remains 12 the same? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The number remains the same. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which is where we are. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we on vehicles? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On vehicles, I put it down in 18 Capital Outlay. I've -- we have -- when the County first went 19 to the vehicle lease program, we went to six vehicles per 20 year, and we dropped that down -- because we got looking 21 through that, we dropped it down to four, and we've been 22 getting four vehicles a year. Now, your four last year, the 23 County getting by before, we had some seizure money and bought 24 them out of that, so the County was totally out, so we're down 25 on those payments. The problem I have with that, you know, 8-1-07 bwk 37 1 okay, in looking at four vehicles a year, the -- as of this 2 date, all right, which it'll be January before the vehicles 3 come in to replace, I have my highest mileage patrol 4 vehicles -- 'cause all vehicles y'all buy for lease package 5 always go on patrol first; they never get used for anything 6 but patrol immediately. One of the patrol vehicles currently, 7 as of today, has 155,514 miles on it. And the lowest one in 8 those five, okay, that I will be rotating out has 9 129,016 miles on it. And I think you're asking for way too 10 many miles on patrol vehicles at that risk. Most 11 departments -- I don't know what D.P.S. is doing now; maybe 12 the sergeants can tell us. P.D. advised they rotate theirs 13 out about 95,000. Used to, it was, like, 60 and 75, but 14 vehicles have improved a lot where you don't. We have a good 15 maintenance schedule on them, but I think when you're asking 16 for vehicles up through 155,000, 130,000 miles on them, and 17 they'll get another, you know, 15,000 to 20,000 on them before 18 we ever get -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, let me ask you one 20 question so I can -- obviously, I got lost in the brush back 21 there somewhere. But on Capital Outlay, talking about the 22 vehicles, that's where vehicles is, correct? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, Tommy changes it around. 24 The first time it was on Capital Outlay. Second time was -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask my question. 8-1-07 bwk 38 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Comes out of lease payments and 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Projected year-end for this 4 year is 112,000. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you've requested 57,000. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. All the vehicles we 8 have are paid off after this year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. How many vehicles 10 will 57,000 buy? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Five. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the first year's payment 14 on five vehicles. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Where's the question 16 in all that? Why are we having -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The question is -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What his plan was. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We've been going -- we've been 20 purchasing four a year, okay? This year, all the vehicles 21 will be paid off. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want to go to five? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I want to go to five a year. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To try and limit the number of 8-1-07 bwk 39 1 miles from getting so high on these vehicles. Now, I'll be -- 2 be honest. This is -- what I put in here is for Crown Vics, 3 same thing we've been driving, lease package Crown Vics. Five 4 of them, that's 57,000, okay? There is a vehicle out there 5 which I think would be better suited for this county, but this 6 is something that the Court -- I will let you decide. We have 7 lost two Crown Vics in the last six years due to high water. 8 And "due to high water" is not driving them off pavement; it's 9 on pavement at intersections where the water is higher. The 10 Crown Vics actually have the air intake right above the 11 fender, and it sucks that cold water into the motor, and you 12 have totaled a vehicle. D.P.S. had one this year, we had one, 13 City had one. I had one a few years ago. They are a problem 14 in water, the weather conditions. There is a vehicle that is 15 a lot better police package vehicle now that was designed -- 16 D.P.S. is going to a lot of them, and that's the Tahoe. Not 17 four-wheel drive. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Five Tahoes, okay, on a -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hang on, here it comes. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. On a five-year lease, 22 now, this 57 -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Three-year, isn't it? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a four. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Four-year lease. 8-1-07 bwk 40 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Five Tahoes on a 2 five-year lease -- if it's a five-year lease, it's right at 3 that same amount. But you're adding a whole 'nother year at 4 that same cost. Let me see here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have the same 6 mileage problem, or a bigger mileage problem after five years 7 than you would four years, though, I would assume. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're also going to have 9 bigger expense in gasoline. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why I programmed in the -- yes, 13 it's 57,000, 58,000 for a five-year lease for five Tahoes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 57,000, right at it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 57, 58. Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the same, but what is it 19 for a four-year? Do you know? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the Tahoe? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's somewhat pointless 22 to go with a five-year lease on your vehicles. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do they make fording kits for Crown 24 Vics? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not that I've ever heard, not 8-1-07 bwk 41 1 on police package. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. On the Tahoe -- you were 4 right, Judge. On the Crown Vics, the 57,000 I have budgeted 5 is a three-year lease. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Tahoes, a four-year lease 8 is 57,000. Okay? So, we're not talking four and five; we're 9 talking three and four. And on the -- the difference would be 10 -- I don't have a three-year lease figure on the Tahoes. I do 11 have a -- if you had a four-year lease on a Crown Vic, it's 12 44,000. If you had a four-year lease on the Tahoe, it's 13 57,000. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many of your fleet were 15 leased originally at four-year? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hmm? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many of your fleet were 18 originally leased at four-year? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All of them. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Four years or three? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three. We've never done four; 22 we've always done three. It's always been the three-year. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How would you -- I mean, would 25 your long-range plan be to take it to all Tahoes? 8-1-07 bwk 42 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the operational cost? Do you 3 have that estimate for us? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What they told us in that one 5 that they brought down here was actually same, if not less, 6 because of the maintenance costs and that. The police package 7 Tahoe was designed by D.P.S. personnel, other law enforcement 8 personnel, to fit more exactly the needs of police. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are your Crown Vics V-8's? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're V-8. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are the Tahoes V-8? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're V-8's also. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. They're all police 17 package. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sergeant Cummins, are you going to 19 get your fleet of Tahoes? 20 SGT. CUMMINS: I don't know, Judge. We don't have 21 any here. It's a good vehicle. I think by now they've got a 22 lot of the initial bugs worked out of it. From what I hear, 23 it's working real well. A lot of the counties around the 24 state actually are going to something like that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: What about D.P.S. fleet? 8-1-07 bwk 43 1 SGT. CUMMINS: We're using them for our canine 2 handlers and a lot of the C.V.E. troopers as -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: For C.V.E.? 4 SGT. CUMMINS: Commercial Vehicle Enforcement. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The ones that have to carry the 6 scales and that sort of stuff, as opposed to pickups? 7 SGT. CUMMINS: As far as for us, actually Highway 8 Patrol out on the road, we're not being issued those right 9 now. Ours are Crown Vics or the Dodge Chargers, what we have. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do you have any knowledge of a 11 fording kit for the -- for the Crown Vics? 12 SGT. CUMMINS: No sir, not to my knowledge. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, if you went to the 15 Tahoe, what -- we'll go back and talk about vehicle gas again. 16 What would that do? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think it would affect 18 our gas. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think that would 20 remain the same too? That was part of the report from the 21 salesman? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. I understand -- I don't 23 believe it would affect our gas. You know, the -- the 24 advantage in this county, mainly, for the Tahoe is the heighth 25 in water and the heighth on a lot -- trying to get through a 8-1-07 bwk 44 1 lot of these ranches and a lot of these roads that we have now 2 in the county. That's the biggest advantage. And, from what 3 we understand, and have talked with the -- they even had one 4 out here and talked with the people about it; it's just a 5 better built Tahoe, a better built vehicle. Now, the chief 6 deputy and my patrol lieutenant did drive one to see, and this 7 price on these Tahoes is totally equipped, like we're doing. 8 There's no extra. So, in fact, it's equipped with more than 9 what the -- the Crown Vics come with. We don't -- the deer 10 guards are already on these, and the cage and the radio's 11 already installed, and the markings are already done. Now, on 12 the Crown Vics, what you pay for in the lease, what we've done 13 is, the radio's in it, but it's not -- the mounting of that 14 stuff, okay? But the deer guards, the -- the detailing and 15 that stuff is all extra. That came out of a different line 16 item in the Crown Vics. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I would rather see us go 18 at least partially with the Tahoe-type vehicles. I think that 19 the Crown Vics don't make a lot of sense to me on a lot of our 20 roads. I mean -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not county roads -- not 22 County-maintained roads. They're all in good condition. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County-maintained. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're in great condition. We 25 have -- 8-1-07 bwk 45 1 MR. ODOM: Thank you, Buster. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're welcome. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just have a lot of low-water 4 crossings. There's times on getting around -- I mean, I don't 5 have -- I think it makes a lot more sense to have some of 6 these vehicles. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I could come back -- if we can 8 settle on going to the five vehicles, okay, from four to five, 9 what I could do is come back to this Court, if you want me to, 10 with four Tahoes, which would put one on every shift; it would 11 be with the sergeants. And one Crown Vic, if you wanted us to 12 partially do it this year. But I would recommend gradually 13 going to all Tahoes, which would be the five. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that I'd deal with 15 all Tahoes. I think it makes sense to have one, you know, 16 with the sergeant or something like that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, that's the reason 18 we bought that thing that -- what is that thing you drive? 19 What is that? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's an Expedition. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Expedition. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's four-wheel drive, too. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So they can get out in the 24 woods. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 8-1-07 bwk 46 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Off of the County-maintained 2 roads. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these going to be 4 four-wheel drives? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, they're not four-wheel 6 drives. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because they are police 9 package, and they can't handle pursuits and that. No. And I 10 don't think they need to. We still have two four-wheel drive 11 vehicles in the department; I have the Expedition that this 12 County bought, which everybody knows how to get to it, and 13 that's why I drive it, so they can get to it and use it any 14 time they need it. And we have a seized Jeep Cherokee that 15 the chief investigator drives. Those are the two four-wheel 16 drive vehicles I have. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't be opposed to going 18 with four and one. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm kind of there. Whatever. 20 It's no big deal. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then will you go along with the 22 Judge on all his other numbers? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 45,000. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, those numbers, you know, 25 are my best calculation on where I believe we're at. If you 8-1-07 bwk 47 1 want to lower those down, and then, like Bruce said -- and we 2 do have this every year; you're going to end up with extra in 3 Jailer Salaries, okay? If you want to go with the Judge's 4 numbers and then get ready for some budget amendments -- you 5 know, I think the Court knows I don't go out and just blow 6 money. I think everybody in my department wished I'd spend 7 more than what we spend, but that's where we'll be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you go find some more 9 of those -- what do you call those things, the machines that 10 you sold all of them? The one-liners -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eight-liners. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eight-liners. Why don't you go 13 find some more eight-liners and seize them? Then we can go -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put that in the slush fund. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How many vehicles did we buy 16 with those? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four or five. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Four patrol vehicles, and I 19 think three C.I.D. vehicles. So -- and this Court, you know, 20 all these vehicles, one thing the Court has not had to buy in 21 the last six years were any C.I.D. vehicles. You notice, 22 okay, all the Ford Tauruses we have, the funds have either 23 been seized or they have been purchased out of seized funds. 24 The Court hasn't replaced any of those vehicles; we've 25 replaced those. 8-1-07 bwk 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Move on. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's talk about your jail for a 3 minute, here, Sheriff. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Your -- the personnel out there, I 6 notice -- is the situation there the same on personnel as 7 you'd indicated, that all these personnel that you got plugged 8 in are ones that are currently authorized and on a position 9 schedule? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, except as I stated, there 11 is one additional jail sergeant added to the jailer salaries, 12 okay, that I would like to have, that helps control our 13 training issues, 'cause of the training programs and that in 14 the jail. I've asked for one. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's in Jailer Salaries? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Your current -- your budget for this 18 year was what, 867 and change, and your request for this year 19 is 830 and change. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: For budgetary purposes, that would 22 actually be less. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The only other -- and other than 25 that, the only difference in figures deals with longevity and 8-1-07 bwk 49 1 educational increases mandated by existing policy? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The clerk, that increase of about 4 23,000, is that a position we authorized midyear? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it was. What we did 6 midyear is we took two part-time positions and turned them 7 into a full-time position. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got you. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's where that is, and the 10 part-times went bye-bye. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, I see where you are now. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no part-time. That's 13 where that came from. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go down to the capital, 15 and that's the one that -- that we modified from 69 -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- down to 13,5 because of the -- the 18 Live Scan machine going away. I've got a note on here, "Look 19 at I.T. suggestions, 14,5." 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, 14,531. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Where -- 22 MR. TROLINGER: And 95 cents. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did not go with I.T.'s total 24 amount of 14,500 in Line Item 569. 25 MR. TROLINGER: If we continue to put off the 8-1-07 bwk 50 1 computer replacement, we're going to just have slower and 2 slower computers and people sitting around frustrated. And -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 560 -- 4 MR. TROLINGER: -- we need a computer replacement 5 program. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you'll let me finish, I did 7 not replace it. In Line Item 569, Operating Equipment -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- I plugged in 13,000 on the 10 I.T. guy's recommendation for computers and that, and then I 11 had another thousand plugged in there for possibly a radio or 12 something like that that we have to replace. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, does that include the I.T. 14 recommendations? Or that's separate and apart? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's recommending 14,000 16 something. I plugged in 13,000. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if we're going to implement the 19 I.T. recommendation, we need to increase that 14,000 -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fifteen. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to about 15 to give you the 22 additional -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thousand. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- $1,000 for radio or whatever? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 8-1-07 bwk 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have any problem with that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the capital outlay goes 3 down to 13? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, 13,5. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 13,500. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Somewhere right around there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back up to utilities, my 8 recollection is that we're putting in the budget four new air 9 conditioning units for your jail on the roof. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've never heard that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These should be higher 12 efficiency units, and I believe we're looking at possibly 13 replacing one of those 20-ton units this year. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we talked about 15 with Maintenance. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think that that number, I 17 mean, could likely come down some. We should have -- I mean, 18 just on efficiency, newer technology. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think you can probably cut 21 that number down. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Utilities, I had put in -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 175. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- 175, 'cause we were 25 running -- projected end of year this year was 160. Last 8-1-07 bwk 52 1 year's budget was 175. Judge has recommended 165, which is 10 2 less than the current budget. If y'all feel that would work, 3 I -- I don't have a problem. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you can probably come 5 down even more, personally. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 160. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go back to 160, just because I 8 think that you do get a lot of efficiencies with new units. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're -- you weren't here for 11 the maintenance part. We're putting your air-conditioners on 12 a five-year plan to replace them all. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then to get them on -- we 15 don't want to do them all at one time so we're stuck with the 16 same mess we are in right now. We're trying to get them so 17 they phase off; take the worst out, you know, next year, 18 hopefully. Then some of the other ones. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sounds like a good idea. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the software maintenance 21 number a solid number, 23,824? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, we may have an issue. I 23 don't know. That's what it had been, 23,000 for software 24 maintenance for the contract. Now, I was told back here a few 25 months ago that Mr. Trolinger didn't sign our maintenance 8-1-07 bwk 53 1 agreement that we -- 2 MR. TROLINGER: Sure. I don't sign any of your 3 contracts. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but it was not 5 presented -- we don't have a maintenance contract with 6 software for anything with Sheriff's Office and jail, because 7 it was never presented to us. Because somebody felt the -- 8 the computer person I had out there had a good enough 9 relationship that we didn't need it. I still programmed it 10 in. I think we need a maintenance contract. The jail and 11 Sheriff's Office is where most of that computer stuff comes 12 from. And then I -- especially now, losing my computer 13 person, I think we definitely need this maintenance. 14 MR. TROLINGER: What's been done with that money in 15 the past? Because it's been in the budget, right? Is it just 16 being rolled -- at the end of the year, it's just being given 17 back? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If they don't bill us for it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had 23,000. It's just -- 20 yeah, it's just -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: Never been expended. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not this year. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I don't cover any of the 24 Sheriff's contracts, but the Sheriff's exactly right. With 25 the loss of the -- his training officer, we're going to need 8-1-07 bwk 54 1 to call software support every time, and they're going to want 2 to start billing us if we don't have a contract. So, we have 3 two options. They can bill us per call, or we can sign a 4 software maintenance contract. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this not under the -- the 6 acquisition where we've got maintenance built in for a 7 specified period of time? Or is that going to be expired? 8 MR. TROLINGER: The maintenance built in is -- is 9 actually the maintenance for five years; no additional 10 increases, no annual increases. We're locked in. But this 11 particular line item has never been contracted with the 12 vendor. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, do they not have equipment 14 that's under this million-dollar acquisition that we made? Or 15 are they not under that? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Well, yes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Then they're covered under this 18 five-year program, are they not? 19 MR. TROLINGER: For the purchase of the software, 20 but the software maintenance remains -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unpurchased. 22 MR. TROLINGER: -- as it was. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MR. TROLINGER: It's a separate line item, Software 25 Maintenance. 8-1-07 bwk 55 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in addition to the million 2 dollars that we've agreed to pay them over a period of five 3 years, they're coming back at us and -- and popping us for 4 software maintenance, huh? 5 MR. TROLINGER: It's support. You call and say, 6 "I've got a problem; please walk me through it," and they'll 7 -- I can hire two or three people to do the same thing, and 8 not provide anywhere near that level of expertise that they 9 have by providing the whole state of Texas versus just one 10 county. So, I do feel it's economical. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What's our total cost for -- 12 for software maintenance in connection with this -- this major 13 acquisition we did of the Odyssey system? 14 MR. TROLINGER: County-wide for software 15 maintenance? Not just including Odyssey, but the financial, 16 tax, all the other smaller software packages, -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. TROLINGER: -- approximately $112,000. I've got 19 to look at my big spreadsheet to confirm that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we -- my recollection was we 22 had -- the maintenance was covered the first year, but that 23 was it. Wasn't that right? 24 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, it was strictly 25 maintenance -- software maintenance was locked in for five 8-1-07 bwk 56 1 years. That was part of the deal. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is really response 3 maintenance, right? If you got a problem, you call, you get a 4 response? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Day to day, pick up the phone, call 6 support. It's the help desk for the software. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, what is your 8 recommendation? I want a recommendation from you, software 9 maintenance in the jail. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I would have -- I would have had the 11 contract implemented immediately, 2005 when I started, was my 12 recommendation. But like the Sheriff says -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're dealing with next 14 year's budget, though. What do you want to put in here right 15 now? 16 MR. TROLINGER: I believe the Sheriff's got the 17 correct number in there. The Sheriff does have the correct 18 number. That is the correct number. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 23,824? 20 MR. TROLINGER: That is the correct number. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm comfortable with 22 it, then. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MR. TROLINGER: We've just been fortunate to have a 25 really good training officer out at the Sheriff's Office 8-1-07 bwk 57 1 that's -- that's handled and supported the users, and gotten 2 away with a little bit with the -- with the vendors. You 3 know, with all the contracts that they have, with all the 4 systems that they have, he's really -- you know, I don't want 5 to use the word "squeezed," but that's kind of what I mean, 6 you know. He gets everything -- he gets everything -- or he 7 has gotten everything possible out of that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did you let him go? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had no choice. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, what's this note 11 on -- your note here on the bottom of the second jail page, 12 "Look at I.T. suggestions, 14,550"? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Which -- that was -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we're talking 15 about. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in part, at least one of the 17 issues that we talked -- well, there were some hardware 18 issues, or may have included some software too, that the -- 19 Mr. Trolinger made an analysis of every department, and in 20 trying to see that our equipment remains updated and current. 21 And he made recommendations as to each department, and -- and 22 as I looked at each department's budget, I referred back to 23 his recommendations. And -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And, actually, those -- I.T. 8-1-07 bwk 58 1 recommendations are included -- actually, the 14,000 under 2 Operating Equipment, 579, should be 14,5. With an addition of 3 another 1,000, that should be 15,5 instead of 15, if you have 4 an additional 1,000 for radios, correct? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 15,5. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: 15,5 as opposed to 15 even. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else that -- major sticking 10 points here? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: Judge, did you also cover the 13 Sheriff's Office line item, which is separate for I.T.? I 14 believe it's -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take a look. 16 MR. TROLINGER: -- 10-560. The Sheriff asked that I 17 didn't lump together all the computers in just the Sheriff's 18 Office budget; he asked me to break it out between Sheriff and 19 jail. So, jail is the 10-512 which we've discussed, and 20 10-560 is the Sheriff's Office, which includes dispatch, 21 C.I.D., patrol. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm showing a note there, 23 Mr. Trolinger, of "Add or adjust I.T. suggestion, 28,000 per 24 I.T." 25 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 8-1-07 bwk 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that included in your budget, 2 Sheriff? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What -- in 560-569? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In that, what I have added was 6 not what he wanted. I added 14,000 in there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Instead of 28? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. I feel -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: I'm not going to repeat myself, but 10 we are -- we are two years behind on computer replacement on 11 my recommendations as it stands right now. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the 14,000 -- you've got 24 13 here, Sheriff. Is there any overlap between that and the 14 28,000 that I.T. recommended? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 14,000. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 14,000 is -- the I.T. was 17 recommending how much? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 28. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 28. 20 MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff's Office, 28. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I put in 14, okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the other 10? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other 10 is covered -- some 25 of the Sheriff's Office, the patrol deputies' portable radios, 8-1-07 bwk 60 1 most of them are five and six years old, and things like that, 2 to get replaced. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if we go with I.T.'s amount of 4 28, we're going to need to add 10 on top. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, you need to add 14 on top. 6 I added half of his 28. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Over and above the I.T. suggestions? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That number -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Minus 10,000. And then out of 10 I.T. suggestions I added 14 of his 28. So that put it to the 11 24,000. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, new I.T. -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we take his 28 and add your 10 15 excess over and above what was duplicated. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 38. Same way -- different way 17 of getting there, but same -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about software maintenance? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of ours falls under the 20 jail. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just covered that, didn't 22 we? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That was on jail. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Sheriff's Office and jail are two 25 separate entities as far as the software maintenance goes; 8-1-07 bwk 61 1 they're two separate. It's the same name, but they're two 2 separate. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you need here? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, two years ago -- current 5 budget, rather, this last year, it was supposed to be $6,676 6 would have been the maintenance cost to run the Sheriff's 7 Office part. It was not budgeted this last year; we never 8 spent any. I didn't put it in there this year. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we probably need to put that 10 back in like we did in the jail. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, if you're -- probably, if 12 we're going to do the contracts like I think we should do, 13 then you probably should put at least the 6,676, if not up a 14 little bit for whatever the difference we need between last 15 year and this year. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need -- do we need to roll that 17 back in, Mr. Trolinger? 18 MR. TROLINGER: I believe we should -- we should do 19 -- we should definitely stay with the jail software 20 maintenance. But the -- the Sheriff's office, I'm in question 21 on. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Like the CAD and all of that. 23 MR. TROLINGER: True. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we're going to get back into 25 a maintenance contract, which I think we should, I would 8-1-07 bwk 62 1 recommend putting at least the 6,676 in there. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why would you want one and 3 not the other, Mr. Trolinger? 4 MR. TROLINGER: It's about -- it's six of one, half 5 a dozen of the other. If we pay for software maintenance for 6 the jail, it kind of works hand-in-hand; they're going to 7 support the Sheriff's law enforcement side. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think you can get the 9 whole thing for 28,000? Is that what you're saying? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it's like they're -- if we 11 call them up and say we've got a problem with our 12 computer-aided dispatch, and we're not paying for support, 13 they may bill us on a call-by-call basis. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it's your recommendation to plug 15 the 66 and change back in? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or leave it out and -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just let them bill us. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Computer-aided dispatch is important 19 enough, I agree with the Sheriff, put it in. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thanks for bringing that back, 23 Commissioner. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 8-1-07 bwk 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: There was an open spot there, and it 2 needed to be -- okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Courthouse Security -- I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought it was time to eat 6 lunch. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it will be shortly. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got through with Page 1 9 with Rusty. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Courthouse Security. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The members of the Court will note 13 that there's not -- not a lot of figures plugged in there. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wonder why. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. On personnel, is the 16 number of personnel the same? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Only increases are those dictated by 19 longevity and/or educational increases under existing policy. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. And, actually, 21 that number could -- since I have an opening now, depending on 22 who I replace back over here, it could actually drop, you 23 know, like 2 percent or something, because Mr. Thomas that had 24 been here had a master peace officer's certificate, so he was 25 at about the highest as far as educational. 8-1-07 bwk 64 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the 37,5 down under Bailiff? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't know which one 3 you have. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 493. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And the other individual that you 7 have available to us over here is up under 104, correct? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- right. One's a deputy, 9 which is the 38,742, and one is the -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just out of curiosity, why 11 aren't they both in the same line? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just the way the budget had 13 always been. I never set that up. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It got developed last year. We added 15 the second bailiff, is the reason that we had -- we had always 16 had the one deputy assigned here, and then this past year we 17 added the -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the extra bailiff. That's 20 probably how that evolved. My question, Sheriff, is what 21 security improvements are proposed under the $10,000 that 22 you've requested? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. What -- there was three 24 options that I had looked at on security improvements. The 25 first one we had looked at a few years ago, and I felt it was 8-1-07 bwk 65 1 too much; that was more of the cameras and everything, and the 2 recording, and that would have been 96,000, still current 3 today. The second option is the one for the keypad entries, 4 bar-coded, that they can be hooked in to assist them; they can 5 be canceled out, and some of the magnetic sensors and their 6 phone video intercom system to where they can talk directly to 7 the -- to the bailiffs and that. That system is $9,603. And 8 that is through -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a keypad and intercom? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same -- yes. And the other 11 system, which is really in a lot of ways a better system, but 12 I didn't know if the Court would want to go to it, the cost of 13 it would be 31,000. And what that is, is it goes into the 14 panic buttons in two different stages, okay? This is operated 15 off of a radio system. The bailiffs or the courthouse 16 security have a radio that -- and there is 15 -- 18 panic 17 alarm positions throughout, so every office has it. It's 18 actually kind of, like, a two-button deal. One button is 19 where, say, Commissioner Oehler just needs a bailiff down 20 here; it's not an extreme emergency, he's just got somebody a 21 little bit out of line or needs help doing something. He can 22 push that. It tells that -- that bailiff that he is needed in 23 Commissioner Oehler's office, okay? That's the normal system 24 where they may need them in the clerk's office. The second 25 system -- or the second part of that system is an emergency 8-1-07 bwk 66 1 system, and what that emergency system does is, it -- if that 2 one is pushed, okay, it says over the radio and over our 3 police radio in all our patrol cars, too, that there is an 4 emergency in the courthouse, whether it be a shooting, a 5 hostage deal or something, and that is when every law 6 enforcement officer in this county is going to be flying to 7 the courthouse along with your bailiffs and all to take care 8 of that extreme emergency. So, it automatically puts it out 9 over the radio system. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the panic system that's 11 31,000? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What about a limited camera system? 15 We've now got ourselves down to three -- three entrances, the 16 two side entrances and the front entrance, public entrances. 17 A camera system which would cover just those points of entry? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I guess it's something -- what 19 -- I'd have to go back, 'cause I have a full camera system, 20 which is the 96,000. If you want to look at just that part, 21 to bid that -- and what we put in capital outlay for the jail, 22 okay, which is the additions that I needed in the kitchen and 23 that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've got a Jail Standards 25 requirement there that you've got to have coverage in all 8-1-07 bwk 67 1 areas. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. But what that -- the -- 3 the number of cameras that we would be adding, okay, under 4 that 12,000 that y'all are looking at for the jail is about 5 four cameras and a monitor and all that four, all right, to 6 get it hooked into that. So, if you wanted to do a partial 7 camera system of four to six cameras in this area that are 8 recorded -- these are all recorded where they can be saved on 9 hard drive and take them back, I would say to look at that 10 12,000. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Sheriff, I think you'll be a little 12 bit -- I think you'll be low on that, because the base system 13 is already in place at the jail. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we're replacing some of 15 those -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- with the larger hard drive, 18 because we can't keep it long enough. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Would 12,000 to 15,000 be a good 20 estimate? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: For a partial camera system? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Explain to me the need for 25 cameras at the entrances. I mean, I understand the panic 8-1-07 bwk 68 1 system. I understand the keypads. Why would it enhance our 2 security to have cameras at our entrances? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there's several reasons, 4 okay, depending on where you place the cameras. As this 5 Court's aware of, we have had criminal mischief at night 6 around the courthouse at different times, okay. If your 7 cameras are going to be outside to where they had zoom-type 8 cameras where you can zoom in on that, you know, we had -- 9 unfortunately, with the old cameras we had at the jail, we 10 had -- the Sheriff's Office, we had a camera system out there, 11 and New Year's night a couple years ago, we had five cars 12 damaged. We got it on camera, but going back and playing it 13 back, we couldn't zoom in close enough to make an 14 identification; never were able to solve that. But it just 15 depends on what you want. If you -- if you want to control 16 and be able to go back and use it for court testimony and 17 things like that, or if -- if you're going to have a bailiff 18 that stays stationary, monitoring something or reviewing 19 anything, then yes, it could be. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you monitor 21 this? Here, or at the Sheriff's Office? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It would be here. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be here. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Upstairs. 8-1-07 bwk 69 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we talking about 2 nighttime? You're talking about a deputy 24 hours a day down 3 here? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. No. I'm just saying that 5 that stuff would be recorded. It records whether the deputy's 6 here or not, whether you're monitoring, kind of like the jail. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you set up this 8 monitoring system? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Where? Up in the bailiff's 10 office upstairs. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't know whether I see 12 a great need to monitor our cameras. I mean, I think keypads 13 would keep control of who's going in and out of this building; 14 that's a good thing. I mean, you know, the panic button 15 system, you know, it's just -- it doesn't seem that we need 16 it. But if it's something that will be helpful, I mean, I 17 don't have a big problem with that one either. I mean, I'm 18 kind of on the fence. I don't -- I rely on the experts as to 19 whether we need that system or not. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The cost that you cited for 21 a panic button type system, Sheriff, is that an installed 22 price, or is that something we have to install, and where 23 would all the panic buttons be? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The panic button system is a -- 25 you can look at this -- 8-1-07 bwk 70 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was for how much, 96? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 31. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was 31,630. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was just hoping. Hoping. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good hope. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it could be we do it in 7 phases, keypad this year and panic next year, or vice-versa; 8 panic this year if it's more important, and then the keypad 9 next year. I mean, doesn't have to all be done at once. I 10 think we are responsible to make sure this courthouse building 11 is as secure as possible, and there are more and more problems 12 nationwide, even though this is still pretty limited. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The nice thing about this type 14 of panic button is that it doesn't matter where the bailiff 15 is; it's going to tell him on his portable radio what's going 16 on. And it doesn't matter if it is a severe emergency -- now, 17 we got -- you know, there's training issues in this; that I 18 don't want an employee accidentally pressing one that is the 19 emergency part of it, okay, that it is a severe emergency, 20 'cause you're going to have red lights and sirens coming to 21 the courthouse. I mean, it is a -- that one is if something 22 that's very serious happens. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the cost of a panic 24 system that gets the bailiff to the office, but not with 25 the -- 8-1-07 bwk 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Emergency. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- emergency part of it? Which, 3 to me, is more beneficial. I'd almost really rather let a few 4 limited people be able to have that ability, being your 5 bailiff and the deputy be the ones that can -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You could -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- send all the law enforcement. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At this point, you could 9 probably end up just buying some of those little two-way 10 radios that you can get at Walmart, and have them sit around, 11 be able to get -- have people to get a bailiff to them. 12 That -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That seems to me more 14 efficient, because if you -- if do you call them and then they 15 see that there is a real emergency, they can -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can call. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can call for backup. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hopefully. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, anyway, that's a big 21 improvement over what we have. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, or if they can't -- I 23 mean, there's enough other people that can, say, call 911. I 24 mean, Jannett's office can call 911 and get all that stuff 25 coming, you know, within seconds of pushing a panic button. 8-1-07 bwk 72 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have that -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then you got to have the panic 3 button in the right spot. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think Jody already has one, 5 'cause every time I walk in, something -- somebody knows I'm 6 here. (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She pushes a button. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just looking at this for both 9 of those types of buttons, you could probably -- and I'm 10 having to guess at this; probably cut that 31,000 close to in 11 half, 'cause you're only using half the type of equipment. 12 But then you still have the entry pads and that for the 9,600. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'd be more in favor of 14 doing something like that if we can afford it this year. I 15 mean, I like the button system, so then there's a -- rather 16 than little portable radios, which I haven't had a whole lot 17 of success with. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: With a panic button system, you can 19 do that discreetly, too. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Rather than panic whoever's giving 22 you a problem. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you remember where the 24 button is. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In looking at both of those 8-1-07 bwk 73 1 options, if you wanted just to guess on what probably should 2 be if you looked at it, probably say about 15,000 for that 3 type of system, and the 9,600, 10,000 for the keypad entry. 4 About 25,000, I would say, would get this very close to 5 getting those. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we first have to see 7 what our revenues are going to be, and then base it on need. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. I mean, I think this 9 is -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For both of those type, about 12 25,000. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 25. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Easily went from 10 to 25. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Keyless entry stuff, about 10. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to get more 17 firm numbers for us? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can sure do that, if y'all 19 want me to. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The limited panic system? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, Sheriff, you look very 23 tired, so we're going to take a break now for about 15 24 minutes. 25 (Recess taken from 10:28 a.m. to 10:46 a.m.) 8-1-07 bwk 74 1 - - - - - - - - - - 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Department of Public Safety. 3 Sergeant Cummins. 4 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's find out where you are here -- 6 20. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 20? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where I've got it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There it is. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Sergeant, your -- your 11 personnel issue there, you have -- you've requested an 12 increase of, I believe it's, what, 250 a month? 13 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: For the secretary that we provide for 15 your operation? 16 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's the basis for the change 18 in that first number there? 19 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. And that would -- if that 20 was approved, that would -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Affect all the roll-ups, of course. 22 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. Sure. The -- looks like the 24 other items there that you've made any request, you've got a 25 generalized request, at least according to my understanding, 8-1-07 bwk 75 1 of 3,500 under Miscellaneous, which I have -- I have 2 recommended that be reduced to 1,000. I really wasn't able to 3 see what you had in mind for that, other than, you know, 4 whatever your, quote, needs might be. 5 SGT. CUMMINS: Sure. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And I'm a little fuzzy on that. 7 SGT. CUMMINS: Okay. This budget -- the projected 8 budget for this year, the year-end is less than what was 9 approved, but it's also about $7,000 less than the '05-'06 10 budget. That's our projected budget for this year. With the 11 request that I've made, that is an increase from the '05 and 12 '06 budget, which I'm assuming this was previous to me getting 13 here; that was probably the highest budget for Highway Patrol 14 that y'all have had. If -- if the requests that I've asked 15 for were approved, it would be about a $100 increase from that 16 budget. It's obviously more -- I think around 10, 11 percent 17 increase from last year's budget, but our projected year-end 18 totals were actually going to save the County about $3,000. 19 Some of the items in there I'm not real familiar with. The 20 telephone, I believe that that's the pagers that the County 21 currently provides for the troopers, which there should be six 22 of those. Now, I can tell you that one thing I would -- you 23 know, just ask be considered is -- and I don't know that the 24 County -- Kerr County has a group cell phone plan. I don't 25 know if y'all have that or not. I know in other counties, 8-1-07 bwk 76 1 they do. The reason I'm -- I'm getting around to that is 2 because a lot of times the pagers -- most people don't use 3 them any more, just to be honest with you. Cell phones -- 4 what everybody's using is cell phones. If it -- if we could 5 be incorporated into some type of plan that y'all already have 6 existing, I'd ask that those pagers be turned back, and we'd 7 get, like, five cell phones. I have a cell phone; I don't 8 need one. The corporal has one. It's provided by the State; 9 he doesn't need one. The other troopers, they're using their 10 personal cell phones. Now, they are receiving messages on the 11 pagers, but it would be a little more practical, in my 12 opinion, to have a cell phone. If the cost of that was going 13 to be something that was going to be a lot more, that's not 14 something we're asking for. I just didn't know how to 15 approach that, because I'm not sure how the County is 16 currently doing that. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan? I think the pagers 18 run about $17 a month, and the cell phones could even be added 19 to our contract at 19.95 a month. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what we're looking at -- we 21 got two different things under consideration. One is outside 22 of your contract, putting together another master contract 23 with the remainder of -- of the county offices, and with the 24 $10 add-on, and just negotiating for a large block of minutes. 25 SGT. CUMMINS: And that's what a lot of counties do. 8-1-07 bwk 77 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think that's one of the 2 options that we're looking at, and that certainly would seem 3 to fit what you're talking about, Sergeant. 4 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. Now, the 3,500 in the 5 Miscellaneous, I know y'all had talked about that fund 6 earlier, and I can be honest with you, I don't like putting 7 anything in that fund either. But the -- the basis for that 8 is, it's been my experience in the past, working in different 9 counties, that you can approach this in two different ways. 10 You can budget for some of these expenses and have a fund 11 established, whether it's in Miscellaneous, Operating 12 Equipment, or capital outlay, one of those three. Things that 13 we would be purchasing with that would be equipment. You 14 know, we're not going to have a luncheon or anything like 15 that. And I don't have the ability, as far as I know, to go 16 and order anything on the County's behalf, so anything that I 17 would be requesting, anyway, I would come to you -- to the 18 Judge about this before it's ever even done. Now, that's one 19 approach to do it. The other approach is, anytime you want 20 something or need something, you come to the Judge and 21 Commissioners Court and make a request for it. My personal 22 opinion is, I would rather have it budgeted in, instead of 23 having to come to Commissioners Court every time something 24 comes up. And I know, just from listening to y'all discuss 25 this with the Sheriff, some of your opinions on it, and I 8-1-07 bwk 78 1 understand that. I do understand that. I would just ask you 2 to consider that even with that, it's $100 more than the 3 '05-'06 budget. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My -- on that issue, my 5 preference would be to put it in Operating Equipment, as 6 opposed to Miscellaneous. 7 SGT. CUMMINS: And I wasn't real familiar with how 8 the County did that, so I thought I'd put it in there, and 9 if -- if it was approved and you wanted to change it into 10 another category, that would be perfectly fine. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather see it drop down 12 to Operating Equipment also. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think the more major issue is, 14 which of those two values, or somewhere in between, do we plug 15 in? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A thousand, or what he's 17 going to end up spending, giving him about $2,600 or $2,700. 18 SGT. CUMMINS: Also, the Operating Equipment, I'm 19 assuming that that 2,200 that was budgeted, and then the 1,692 20 that was spent was for the computer -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably. 22 SGT. CUMMINS: -- that y'all put in. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or printers or whatever. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 25 SGT. CUMMINS: Which we won't have that expenditure. 8-1-07 bwk 79 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to go back to 2 secretary salaries, Sergeant. 3 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're at 25,897, and you're 5 proposing $3,200. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thousand? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the other one, Operating 9 Equipment, we never settled on a number. 1,000? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Add the 1,000 to his 1,692. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, he's not needing the 1,692, 12 so maybe 1,500 there? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Give you a little bit more breathing 16 room there, Sergeant. 17 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us about the $3,200 on 19 the secretary salaries. What's that? 20 SGT. CUMMINS: She's been doing a great job. She's 21 doing -- she came in at a very baseline salary. She's caught 22 on to everything we've asked her to do a lot quicker than we 23 really thought that she would, and with that, over the last 24 year that she's been here -- the last two years, there's -- 25 there just continues to be more office paperwork in every 8-1-07 bwk 80 1 department that you're going to have that we're doing, whether 2 it's with the District Attorney's office -- the Sheriff talked 3 about this earlier. We put a lot of people in jail. Every 4 time we put someone in jail, we have a video of it, so we have 5 to make copies of those videos, whether it's one for us and 6 one for the District Attorney, the prosecutor -- whether it's 7 the county, district, or the District Attorney, we provide 8 them a copy of that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this person on the -- the 10 county's step and grade system, or -- it is the county system? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was my next question. 12 Where'd you get the 3,200? Just pluck it out of the air, or 13 is it part of our step and grades? 14 SGT. CUMMINS: Absolutely. I just plucked it out of 15 the air. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The person's on our step and 18 grade system; I think we need to keep on that system. One or 19 two -- she's been here two years now? This will be her 20 second? 21 SGT. CUMMINS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She'll get an automatic 23 longevity increase this year -- 24 SGT. CUMMINS: I don't know that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- under our system, so she'll 8-1-07 bwk 81 1 be getting a -- what's that translate to, Ms. Hyde? 2 MS. HYDE: About 30 -- about $700. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, she'll get that 4 automatically. 5 MS. HYDE: Annual. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the -- if the job 7 description -- I just ask that you get with our H.R. 8 Department on job description. You know, if she's -- 9 SGT. CUMMINS: It has changed, and we've actually 10 got -- spoken with the H.R. Department about it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- you know, if that 12 classification needs to be changed, then I'd be in favor of an 13 adjustment. If it doesn't need to change, then I'm not, just 14 because I think it's a county employee and has to stay with 15 the system; otherwise, we end up with a -- everyone in this 16 room coming with that same argument, that workload's 17 increased, so we need more money. And we just can't afford 18 it, in my mind. 19 SGT. CUMMINS: They need to make that request. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of them do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If you don't ask, you don't get. Is 22 that your theory? 23 SGT. CUMMINS: That's right. You got to take care 24 of your employees. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's definitely a 8-1-07 bwk 82 1 longevity increase there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, it wouldn't just be 3 those in this room. Those in the room representing department 4 heads or elected officials, and they'd be -- they would be 5 speaking on behalf of multiple employees. 6 SGT. CUMMINS: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- but -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you can refine that with 9 the H.R. person. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get with me later. H.R. is 11 trying to give me some hand signals. 12 MS. HYDE: When I talked with D.P.S., her job 13 description has changed enough to warrant the longevity plus 14 one step. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MS. HYDE: That's it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would bring the number 18 to what? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever that is, we're willing 20 to do. 21 SGT. CUMMINS: I'll find out what -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I can tell you. 26,1, that's going 23 to be 1,300 roughly. That's 5 percent. Steps are at 2 and a 24 half, so -- okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Without any COLA adjustment? 8-1-07 bwk 83 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no COLA adjustment. Yeah, the 2 two -- but two steps round figure will be 1,300. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MS. HYDE: Her longevity will go into effect in 5 September, and then the next increase would go into October, 6 so the longevity has already been budgeted. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think -- I'm not sure. Is 9 the current -- is the current salary -- does that fit within 10 our current step and grade? 11 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. She'll be at a 17-2. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: With this next increase? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, effective September. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And what you're saying is, 15 because of job description change and additional 16 responsibility, there should be a one-step increase as a 17 result of that. That's the justification. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No problem. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 22 SGT. CUMMINS: All right. That was easy. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Excuse me. There's an annual cost 24 of -- I believe it's in your telephone budget, for the 25 internet connection to the courthouse for Odyssey. Is that 8-1-07 bwk 84 1 still in your budget? 2 SGT. CUMMINS: I wasn't aware that that was part of 3 the telephone. 4 MR. TROLINGER: I believe last year we had capital 5 outlay for D.P.S. We provided the computer, the hardware -- 6 the initial cost of the hardware, and I believe on the order 7 of $720 per year. I may be high on that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about the broadband? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 60 bucks a month? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. Just want to make sure 12 that doesn't get overlooked. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If you'd check into that? 14 Okay, that gets us to Road and Bridge. Where's Road and 15 Bridge? 21. Mr. Odom. 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: On your personnel issues, of course, 18 you're requesting some increases there. 19 MR. ODOM: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it goes without saying that 21 that's going to have to be considered in -- in parity with all 22 the other county employees, unless you've got specific 23 instances in particular employees' situations dealing with job 24 description changes, educational increases, something that may 25 fit within our -- our mandatory policy dealing with longevity 8-1-07 bwk 85 1 and education. I assume you've already got those plugged in? 2 MR. ODOM: I have that plugged in. But, basically, 3 that -- I gave everybody a 2 and a half percent because of the 4 essential personnel, the deeming of that, and the disciplinary 5 effect that that entails; that they will be there, and 6 disciplinary action will be taken. So, if we're at that 7 point, I know that it's implied, but if we're going to do 8 that, I think that they receive just like the Sheriff got a 9 year ago. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say that again? 11 MR. ODOM: Essential personnel, the 2 and a half 12 percent increase because of that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are your employees more 14 essential than other employees? 15 MR. ODOM: Why did the Sheriff get 2 and a half last 16 year, that they're essential? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think they did. 18 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, they did. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall that terminology, 20 anyway. They might have got an adjustment for salaries across 21 the board. 22 MR. ODOM: Got an adjustment for salaries based upon 23 the fact that they were essential personnel. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't recall that. 8-1-07 bwk 86 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the solution is, if they did, 2 we can reduce that. 3 MR. ODOM: That would be fair. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think we've done -- 5 for the past several years, we have looked at law enforcement 6 salaries and made adjustments of the jailers first, and then 7 the deputies, but I don't think it was because they were 8 essential personnel. 9 MR. ODOM: Well, your memory and mine are two 10 different ones, sir. Sometimes I'm right; sometimes I'm 11 wrong. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wasn't here, so I don't 13 know. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe you can get out 15 the minutes of that meeting and -- 16 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm sure -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- prove it out. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I think the Judge's 19 comment is we'll look at all those salaries later. 20 MR. ODOM: Plus I also added -- I also added one 21 position back that was a 17-1, which I've been trying for the 22 last several years, when that was taken away, to build that 23 up. So, that's all that I have built into that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, there is one 25 additional personnel, one 17-1? 8-1-07 bwk 87 1 MR. ODOM: That is right, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. ODOM: But I will take a look. If this doesn't 4 go through, I will take a look at the fact that -- for merit 5 increases or something like that, I may look at. I just 6 looked at everybody across the board for 2 and a half. And 7 there are people that are justified to bring up, but I didn't 8 do that to be fair to everybody, because of the new 9 designation of the people if they're essential personnel. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard, on the one additional person 12 -- personnel that you mentioned, now, I know we approved one 13 more clerical position for you last year, I believe, wasn't 14 it? 15 MR. ODOM: That was clerical. I asked for two 16 positions last year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Then -- okay. 18 MR. ODOM: And I only got one. One was for the 19 office, and one was to go back into the field. And this one 20 is to go back into the field. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's look at that. If we 22 could, I want to find out where you've got that individual. 23 If we budgeted for 702 this past -- this current year, and you 24 put a 2.4 percent increase on that, that brings it to 719. I 25 don't see the additional person, is my point. 8-1-07 bwk 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it should be in Crew 2 Salaries. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right? I mean, that's the line 5 item. 6 MR. ODOM: Well, maybe I missed it. It should have 7 been that we had the 17-1. Am I right, Truby? 8 MS. HARDIN: The 17-1 for last year that is being 9 filled part-time now is in 15-611. 10 MR. ODOM: Yeah, that position. 11 MS. HARDIN: And Crew Salaries. And that was the 12 only one we got. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a part-time last year? 14 MS. HARDIN: No, it was budgeted for full-time, 15 but -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- okay, this is the one -- 17 MS. HARDIN: -- the person is only working three 18 days. We need to change that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, is this a -- a full -- 20 MR. ODOM: I'm looking to put a full-time individual 21 as a 17-1 into the field. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But is this increasing someone 23 who's a part-time now? 24 MS. HARDIN: No. 25 MR. ODOM: No. 8-1-07 bwk 89 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, just another full person? 2 MR. ODOM: Full person. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It goes under the crew -- under 4 111. 5 MR. ODOM: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But this number that's here 8 does not reflect that person? 9 MR. ODOM: Apparently not. I thought it did. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From 674 to 719? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's -- 12 MS. HARDIN: Yes, it's in that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has to be. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the original budget was 702, and 15 you put a 2 and a half percent increase on there, and you're 16 going to get that number up to 719. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So that individual is not there. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that 111 needs to be increased. 21 MR. ODOM: 17-1. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: To add a 17-1. 23 MR. ODOM: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there anything else? I 8-1-07 bwk 90 1 don't -- there really weren't any changes off recommended. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, Leonard is extremely tight 3 figuring his numbers, and -- 4 MR. ODOM: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- occasionally he'll have to do some 6 budget amendments, but really not that frequently. He's got a 7 good handle on them year-round. 8 MR. ODOM: Yeah. If you look, what I presented was 9 less money in the new budget than -- than the one I'm 10 currently doing. And I thought I had the 17-1 in the whole 11 thing in there. I'll go back and look at that. I just swear 12 that I -- that I had both of them in there, and I just -- 13 maybe I missed it, then. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I don't have a problem 15 with that 17-1, because we talked about there was a lot of 16 things that didn't happen last year that you thought was going 17 to happen; the airport, and then parks and moving things 18 around. So, you know, I think that -- I don't have a problem 19 with that one personnel that you -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and he had -- he had somebody 21 that was actually assigned to him that -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We moved. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- he's now lost over to Maintenance, 24 so that one's been shifted. 25 MR. ODOM: That was -- 8-1-07 bwk 91 1 MS. HARDIN: That was budgeted in our ours last 2 year. 3 MR. ODOM: But it was taken back out. 4 MS. HARDIN: So that's what's the difference would 5 be. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that may be where the 17-1 is. 7 MR. ODOM: I think that's it. I want to say my 8 budget is less with what I just proposed to you than what I'm 9 doing right now. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the guy that you had is 11 still in here. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the guy -- 13 MR. ODOM: Well -- 14 MS. HARDIN: No. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One person left and a new one's 16 coming in, so not a net change. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 MR. ODOM: That's right. Thank you, Truby. I knew 19 I had this right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just needed a little 21 confirmation, didn't you? 22 MR. ODOM: I just need a little support. I'm 23 telling you that what I presented to you with my 2 and a half 24 percent and the 17-1 is less money than this year, and I would 25 like for you to give my people across the board a 2 and a half 8-1-07 bwk 92 1 percent, without affecting the budget. And I've -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Hard to argue with. 3 MR. ODOM: Well, I think it's fair. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Like I say, it's hard to argue with. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but I don't want to argue. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We do have a parity problem, though, 7 and you understand that. 8 MR. ODOM: I understand. But I -- you know, if -- 9 but this courthouse is not essential personnel. My people 10 are. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it depends on which 12 person that comes in for services. You ask that person. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd rethink that one. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just depends on who's out in 15 the hallway waiting to get some service. 16 MS. HARDIN: Yeah, but they don't come in when it's 17 iced over, and we don't -- 18 MR. ODOM: You don't have tort liability. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could argue this all week 20 long, so why don't we just move on? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got me offtrack on that one. 22 MR. ODOM: I've accomplished something if I've done 23 that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Capital Outlay. 25 MR. ODOM: Capital Outlay, sir. 8-1-07 bwk 93 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I had -- two 2 questions. First, on the foreman trucks, what mileage do we 3 have on those current ones? 4 MR. ODOM: Over 200,000 for one, and about 185 for 5 gasoline, and that's a V-10, and those are 1999's. So, I'm 6 interested in replacing those with my people. Those are the 7 oldest ones. And I think mine that I traded in had 227,000. 8 So, those vehicles will -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They need to be replaced. 10 MR. ODOM: They will -- I wish we could get them at 11 60,000 miles, or 65. But -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your portable welders -- 13 MR. ODOM: Portable welders, yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you tell me what kind of 15 welder you can find for $1,200? 16 MR. ODOM: Well, they're those little cracker-box 17 deal. What we're talking about is Ingram out there lost the 18 old welder we had, the old hand crank. I've tried to have 19 that repaired and taken back in, and they say that this is -- 20 this is beyond anything out there. And I had it repaired a 21 little bit. These are more cracker-box Hobarts, running 22 around $1,200. We looked at Northern, and something they 23 could put in the back of the truck or a backup to go out in 24 the field. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But they're truly gasoline 8-1-07 bwk 94 1 engine-powered. 2 MR. ODOM: Which one? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The gasoline engine-powered. 4 MR. ODOM: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're -- you don't need a 6 generator in addition to them. I'm just trying to figure 7 out -- I need to go buy some of those for me. 8 MR. ODOM: Hobart was out there. I looked 9 at Grainger, and they were running around 2,000. I went down 10 to Northern and looked, and they were running around 1,194. 11 That doesn't mean the price hasn't increased a little bit, but 12 this has been within the last two months when I was looking at 13 things. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, these are inexpensive -- 15 MR. ODOM: Inexpensive. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in a sense, throw-away after 17 a couple of years? 18 MR. ODOM: Probably after a couple years. Maybe a 19 Lincoln -- I've looked at Lincolns in the -- at Home Depot, 20 and those little cracker-box they got, and so they're running 21 around 1,100, 1,200. Sam's sometimes has them, and so that's 22 what I was thinking of, that that crew could put it in the 23 back of the truck, go with it. We could have one back in the 24 shop as backup to the different guys that have it. But I 25 can't repair that one; I've tried. 8-1-07 bwk 95 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't repair any of them for 2 $1,200. 3 MR. ODOM: Yeah. So, I thought that was the most 4 cost-effective one. We don't do that much, but when we do, we 5 need -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might a little bit here or 7 out in the field. 8 MR. ODOM: Little tack welding is all. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, what do you got in 10 Special Projects? I don't see anything. Where is it? 11 MR. ODOM: Special Projects, yeah. There's a back 12 sheet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under Contract Fees. 14 MR. ODOM: Under Contract Fees, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I'm sorry. 16 MR. ODOM: And, basically, Hermann Sons 17 right-of-way, we're looking at being able to acquire some 18 right-of-way from the bridge up to 480, and do some 19 realignment on Hermann Sons there around King Salvage with the 20 Highway Department. So, we think that we plugged in around 21 19,500. I have striping on Sheppard Rees, from Bear Creek to 22 the city limits. It's a little bit over 4 miles, and then 23 from Elm Pass, 480, to Elm Pass II is 26,500. Now, I was 24 looking at a hydraulic and engineering study for River Road 25 Crossing there in Hunt, that real narrow crossing. You and I 8-1-07 bwk 96 1 discussed that stoplight there at Highway 27. Now, the 2 Highway Department says that they're going to fund that 3 100 percent, but that's where I was looking at that. If we 4 didn't -- if I did have to spend that, I wanted to look at 5 Fall Creek and do a study there for that crossing at Fall 6 Creek. So, I don't know how far 14,000 may take me, but it 7 will get me somewhere down the road on either one of them. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Speaking of Fall Creek, it's 9 been several years since the first part of that road was 10 rehabilitated, coming off of lower Turtle Creek up -- 11 MR. ODOM: Sealcoated. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sealcoated, yeah. Is that 13 plugged into your -- 14 MR. ODOM: We'll take a look. I don't know whether 15 it'll be this budget year or the following budget year. I 16 need to tie in. I don't know how much I'm going to finish 17 this year. I can't ever -- my wheels are spinning in this 18 water, and I -- that's what I'm afraid of. We're going to try 19 to see how much I get finished, and we're going to shoot 20 sometime this month. Toward the third week, we're praying 21 that we have sunshine for a while. But we're going to try to 22 finish our projects this year, and then I just have to -- I 23 haven't tried to look at it. It's sort of ludicrous at this 24 point to -- to worry about it. I mean, let's just find out 25 what I've got, and then what I don't finish will have the 8-1-07 bwk 97 1 highest priority and we'll get them first, and pick up what's 2 left. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, where -- I have no -- I 4 think it's -- well, the Hermann Sons right-of-way, that's for 5 the full right-of-way acquisition? 6 MR. ODOM: That's for the acquisition. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then you can -- and just in 8 your other line items, you've got the funding to do the road 9 shift, or -- 10 MR. ODOM: Well, I believe that you and I talked; it 11 would probably be the next budget year. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before you do that? 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, to do that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, just checking. 15 MR. ODOM: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Lane -- 17 MR. ODOM: I don't have a problem with getting it in 18 place, and we'll see where we're at. But, you know, if -- if 19 we go -- I can't tell you what the scenario of 1931 through 20 1963. I can tell you from the '50's through '63, what it 21 looked like. But that's what FEMA's telling me, that we're 22 going back in weather. So, this is -- in my grandparents' and 23 dad's day, it was pretty hot, but how bad the weather was in 24 the winter, I don't know. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- what about Lane Valley, 8-1-07 bwk 98 1 which is a big -- you and I know about it; I'm bringing it up 2 more for the Court's benefit. Just as a refresher, Hill 3 Country Co-Op's putting fiberoptic now down Lane Valley, and 4 Leonard and I have been working with Hill Country Co-Op and, 5 you know, landowners, and I think I brought up to the Court 6 that Voelkel Engineering is doing some surveying to figure out 7 long-term where right-of-way acquisition may make sense on 8 Lane Valley to cut off some of the corners or some three or 9 four -- well, there's two cattle crossings under the road; one 10 of them is about to cave in. Anyway, there's some things out 11 there, and because of the fiberoptic line, it's kind of pushed 12 all this to the forefront to figure out where we would, 13 long-term, want right-of-way. Are we going to be at the point 14 on -- I'm thinking mainly 'cause of Mr. Henry's property, of 15 needing to have some funds for acquisition on that part of it 16 maybe this year? What are your thoughts on that? I know 17 Voelkel was back out there doing some of their work again, 18 because their -- some of their points, I guess, didn't 19 coordinate right on their GPS. 20 MR. ODOM: Yeah. Part of that's going to be tough, 21 because you got 30 foot. Some of it's prescriptive easement, 22 something in a deed that says the family's got 30-foot, all 23 the way back. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. ODOM: To answer your question, at this point, I 8-1-07 bwk 99 1 don't see it, other than contingencies, which I've kept at 2 20,000. Unless -- unless we went in, instead of a hydraulic 3 study, we might have 14,000 there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 MR. ODOM: I don't -- and you would have to plug 6 something in. I didn't think about that, other than maybe, 7 you know, we might be able to -- at least on the Crenwelge's 8 property right there. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That part, I think we can 10 postpone that issue off to another year, if we can at least 11 figure out where we're going. 12 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe. I'm just worried more 14 about the Henry property, 'cause I know I did meet with them. 15 MR. ODOM: For the Court's -- we're looking at the 16 possibility of -- whatever we do is at least 60 foot, as far 17 as we can get from the back, from Privilege Creek there where 18 it's proposed in the future all the way to the highway. I 19 mean, it's going to be 30 foot. The roadway is right there, 20 as Jon just said, and crossings are very, very narrow. So, 21 you increase that -- whether it gets developed during our 22 time, I -- you know, I don't know, but we're trying to get it 23 all in place. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our thinking is that we need to 25 figure -- we need to make sure that fiberoptic line doesn't go 8-1-07 bwk 100 1 where we're going to need right of way in five years. 2 MR. ODOM: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we don't want to have to 4 move it once it's there, so we're trying to -- we're asking 5 Hill Country Co-Op to do as much as they can, if they have to 6 get that project done this year. So, we're trying to at 7 least -- maybe not make the acquisition, but know where we're 8 going to go with the acquisition down the road. 9 MR. ODOM: If we -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We may want to put something -- 11 I don't know, maybe 5,000, maybe 10,000. 12 MR. ODOM: Maybe 10,000. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just so we can start. 14 MR. ODOM: But I don't have the slightest idea. 15 That property is not like it used to be when I first came 16 here, so it's pretty expensive. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Start working on it. 18 MR. ODOM: Yeah. If we don't move -- do the work 19 toward widening this right-of-way with the people that will 20 work with us at this point, everything that we move and we 21 make them move that, then it costs the taxpayers money. So, 22 we're trying to do this at one time, to lay it out; that they 23 lay it out back behind the fence lines, that we have an 24 alignment, and we don't have to pay for it in the future. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about the off-system 8-1-07 bwk 101 1 bridges that we're going to be having built in the next two 2 years? We're going to have to fund 10 percent of that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. That's right. 4 MR. ODOM: But we had discussed at that point of 5 going to the -- whatever they call that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In-kind. There's some 7 in-kind involved in that. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes. Well, we were going to do 350, but 9 we were talking about if we need the money, we would go to the 10 infrastructure there -- bank there that the Highway Department 11 uses, and we would do that. And I think, at that point, 12 that's the reason I would like to have that structure -- I'm 13 talking about Fall Creek, that we would look at borrowing the 14 money at one time or having a line of credit set up that we 15 could borrow that amount as they come down, and we wouldn't 16 have that. And I -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The figure is 279. 18 MR. ODOM: 279? I'm thinking that we probably need 19 to be -- I don't know, half million. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is our cost, 279,000. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For all the bridges? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For all seven -- all six 23 bridges. At seven, they're going to replace -- 24 MR. ODOM: $200,000, at least, a crossing, from what 25 we've talked about. What I just saw with my engineering at 8-1-07 bwk 102 1 Town Creek was 171,000-some-odd dollars to do Town Creek if we 2 went forward. I don't think we should go forward any more. 3 I've spent the $112,000, and I was obligated to spend 110 for 4 Hermann Sons, so I fulfilled that obligation. But there's 5 another 170 there, so those type of crossings are going to be 6 200,000 more. I think we could do that certainly less than -- 7 than River Road, because you don't have nowhere to tie in, any 8 elevations. So, the one at Fall Creek's going to be a little 9 bit higher, but I think some of that's going to be in that 10 200. So, I'm going to guess 500,000 or 600,000. But, again, 11 this next year, this October, I will be paying off our debt. 12 We've already paid one note on the zipper, so I have one last 13 payment on the distributor, on the chip spreader, and the 14 zipper. So, in October, we're out of debt, so that gives me 15 some room to pay -- take a note and start to pay it over the 16 next four or five, six years, amortize it out over a certain 17 period of time, and then we pay it off as we see what we've 18 got. So, I don't think we have a problem as far as adding a 19 quarter of a million dollars or $300,000. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, these don't come due 21 in this next budget year, do they? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, they probably won't be any 23 of them done in this budget year. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be '08 and '09? 25 MR. ODOM: It will be, yes, '08-'09, I would think. 8-1-07 bwk 103 1 Yeah, you're looking '10 or '11, by the time something's 2 probably completed, by the time they get through some of it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, back to the 4 right-of-way, rather than designate it as Lane Valley, if you 5 went to your right-of-way line item and added 10,000 there, 6 that would cover -- at least have something in there for some 7 of that Lane Valley work. 8 MR. ODOM: So, you want to say 29,5 or 30,000? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For right-of-way? 10 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have -- what do you have in 12 there now? 13 MR. ODOM: 19,5. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Make it 30? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What line item are you on? 16 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm sorry, did you -- didn't y'all 17 receive one of my copies here, what I have? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, we got that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I saw that one, 19,5. But I was 20 wondering if, under your 557 -- 21 MR. ODOM: 557? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put it under right-of-way 23 surveying. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Surveying and engineering. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. It would be better to put 8-1-07 bwk 104 1 it under your -- you're right, put it into contract fees. 2 MR. ODOM: Yeah. I'm just keeping that -- that's 3 one we've always had, just holding it around 2,000. That's 4 for odds and ends of going in there. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, put the other one at 30,000? 6 MR. ODOM: I would say 30,000. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line, Jonathan? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on this -- 9 MR. ODOM: Contract fees. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract fees. 11 MR. ODOM: Add 10,000. 12 MS. HARGIS: I get 60,000 on that one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's going to plug in -- 14 MS. HARGIS: 553, what do you have? 15 MR. ODOM: Well, I have 60,000 total, so if you add 16 10,000 to it, would make it 70,000. 17 MS. HARGIS: Where's your 19,5? I don't see that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 553. 19 MS. HARGIS: Included in the 60? Okay. 20 MR. ODOM: Right, yeah. You -- I apologize to the 21 new Auditor. She has to think like an Aggie, and I -- if I 22 die now -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't wish that on her. 24 MS. HARGIS: No, no, no. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract fees go to 70,000? 8-1-07 bwk 105 1 MR. ODOM: 70,000. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we've busted your budget for you, 5 see? 6 MR. ODOM: Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To 70? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Here you did all the work to come in 9 below, and here we go to -- to putting you out of business. 10 You can't make that claim to fame. 11 MR. ODOM: Well, that's y'all's prerogative. There 12 are some good projects that we're looking at. But I would 13 like -- Commissioner Oehler, what do you think on this 14,000 14 for that -- for that crossing there? Do you want to -- you 15 feel that we won't have to participate with the state at all 16 at that Goat Creek Cutoff? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They said that they -- there 18 would be no -- they didn't indicate any money will be expended 19 by the County or anyone else. They just came -- I mean, we 20 got the letter saying, you know, we're going to do it. 21 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they didn't indicate any 23 expenses to the County whatsoever. 24 MR. ODOM: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, I don't know how else 8-1-07 bwk 106 1 to take it. If so, they should have said something. 2 MR. ODOM: I'm going to go on that assumption; that 3 we'll look at the budget if this is approved, when y'all 4 finalize it, we'll see where we're at. Then the next budget 5 year, we'll look at Fall Creek, and that may fall in line 6 pretty well for an engineering study on that to see where 7 we're at. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: River Road really needs it 9 worse, I think. 10 MR. ODOM: That's in better shape than you are. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to be in better shape than 12 me. That thing is so narrow -- 13 MR. ODOM: You know, the old Model A, the old Model 14 T roads coming into Corsicana there, going to -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ten -- not more than 10 feet 16 wide. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Where is that? 18 MR. ODOM: Goes out to Highway 1340. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My River Road's in better 20 shape than your River Road. 21 MR. ODOM: Oh, yes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are -- there's nothing 23 safe about that bridge. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, do you have a spot in 25 here for work that Wayne Wells does for the County? I know 8-1-07 bwk 107 1 anything he does for the -- under subdivisions gets billed 2 straight to the developer, but -- 3 MR. ODOM: Ask me again? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any work that Wayne Wells may do 5 for the County. I don't know if you've used him on anything. 6 On subdivisions, we get reimbursed 100 percent for his time. 7 Is there times that you need him? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, and he'll review this up here with 9 the state. He met out there with me, -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MR. ODOM: -- with Troy. And I would -- told him I 12 would -- once I've got a better idea and we get it staked out, 13 I'll get back with him. But I do. I don't use him that much, 14 but -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's included in the 16 contract fees? 17 MR. ODOM: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Engineering services. 19 MR. ODOM: Or engineering services, or -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 457. 21 MR. ODOM: -- contingencies, if I -- if I use more 22 than what I think. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 MR. ODOM: This year, I'm not really going to have 25 special projects -- special projects, what we just discussed. 8-1-07 bwk 108 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, just as a -- a note for our 2 auditors, the -- under Administration, 600-102, probably 3 should change that title to Administrator's Salary, as opposed 4 to Engineer's Salary. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a carry-over from when we 7 had Frank Johnston on for part-time. Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Are all the I.T. recommended upgrades 9 plugged in? I've got a note here, "I.T. hookups or upgrades." 10 You recommended 1,800. Is that plugged in -- in here? 11 MR. ODOM: This is what we figure. I don't know. 12 Truby -- are we talking about 600? Is that where we're at? 13 This gentleman had some stuff in here that I don't feel that 14 -- when I looked at my budget, I don't see that I need. But I 15 don't know what he's -- where we're at. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we find out? 17 MR. ODOM: Yeah, ask him. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Well, you've got a computer that's 19 completely out-of-date, so -- 20 MR. ODOM: You're talking about mine? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 22 MR. ODOM: Mine works. I wouldn't worry about mine, 23 okay? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't call us, we'll call you. 25 Right? 8-1-07 bwk 109 1 MR. ODOM: That's right, sir. That's mine. It's 2 not online, so I'm really not overly concerned about it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MR. ODOM: I get on it every now and then, look 5 something up. That's it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What else is in that 1,800, 7 Mr. Trolinger? 8 MR. TROLINGER: And then there's the -- the new 9 software that the County Clerk's installing; for instance, it 10 automates and gives you the capability to look up plats, if 11 you were on the county network. And you need to be on the 12 county network to do that. So, I recommend upgrading the DSL 13 to a higher bandwidth, the broadband, so that you can be a 14 part of the county network, so you can use the services that 15 we have here in the courthouse at your office. Now, I know -- 16 I know a lot of things you have to come over here and get a 17 stamped copy, but we've got a lot of new tools this year, 18 these past two years, that y'all don't have access to. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Court is not going to have 20 plats any more. 21 MR. ODOM: Everything we have on any plat is filed 22 in our cabinet, so I have the original -- one of the originals 23 that comes there. So, we have to keep that on file there, 24 too, so when people come in. But I don't know -- gentlemen, 25 you know, I'm not a computer wizard, but I'll say that it 8-1-07 bwk 110 1 works for me, and if it's not broken -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the big picture is 3 going to be that your office is going to have to get on with 4 the county system when it comes to some of the payroll 5 functions and personnel functions, purchasing. 6 MR. TROLINGER: And that's -- that's the Auditor's 7 office. We're changing the -- a lot of this is going -- we're 8 going to go to stuff that they're saying that we need to go 9 to, to make their lives work better, and so you're going to 10 have to get the technology to be able to access -- talk to the 11 county system. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd like for you to be a 13 part of the Kerr County system. 14 MR. ODOM: I've always felt we were. We were just a 15 little bit isolated. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't like strings and 17 tin cans to talk to you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The budget is going to be done 19 on the computer online in the next year, so you're not going 20 to get any money unless you are able to talk to our computers. 21 MR. ODOM: I have -- that's not a problem. Really, 22 it's not a problem, as far as going. The only thing I'm 23 worried about is that access -- or putting things in, I've 24 already -- he's been out once before, and to be quite honest, 25 my computer that's old was loaded with viruses because you had 8-1-07 bwk 111 1 an open server, and that open server killed my -- my computer. 2 I couldn't even get it up. You were supposed to fix it. It 3 wasn't fixed. I had to hire somebody to come get it, fix it. 4 Cost me 100 bucks. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's trying to get you a new 6 one. 7 MR. TROLINGER: That was before my time. I have no 8 idea -- 9 MR. ODOM: No, sir, it wasn't before your time. But 10 I -- you know, there's limited access that I need. That's it. 11 And the data is important to us, that no one comes in there 12 and hacks it. Right now, it's safe. My computer wasn't safe; 13 had an open server in my building, and every time I turned 14 around, I was downloading the virus. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: I have no idea what he's talking 17 about. That's before I started working here. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All you can -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's do one at a time. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Road and Bridge was far ahead of 21 the rest of the county in computer and what y'all were doing, 22 you know, budget, recordkeeping, everything else. The 23 County's caught up in a lot of areas. H.R. and Auditor's 24 department are going to require a lot of stuff to be done 25 online to get payroll done and to get budget done and to get 8-1-07 bwk 112 1 purchasing done. 2 MR. ODOM: That makes sense. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's going to have to be done 4 through one county system, so what it takes to get your 5 department to do that has to be done. And I don't know; I 6 just know the philosophy of where we're going, and it's up to 7 Mr. Trolinger and your department to get together, figure out 8 what we need to do with that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: In order to get there, it occurs to 10 me we need to -- under 600, Line Item 570, you've obviously 11 got something else in mind for the 400; to increase that by 12 1,800, for a total of 2,200. 13 MR. ODOM: Which one am I on, 600? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 570. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 570. 16 MR. ODOM: 570? So, you're saying -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 2,200. 18 MR. ODOM: 2,200. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. ODOM: All right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except that I don't know, if he 22 doesn't want a new computer, why he needs a new computer. 23 MR. ODOM: That's the way I feel. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He just said the one he's 25 got doesn't work very well. 8-1-07 bwk 113 1 MR. ODOM: I got it cleaned up now. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He got it fixed; just didn't use 3 I.T. to fix it. I mean, I don't think -- we need to get the 4 broadband stuff that John needs done. That has to be done 5 whether Leonard gets a new computer or not. I don't have a 6 computer. I don't use one here, so I don't need one. I don't 7 want to spend tax dollars on one, so if he doesn't want a new 8 computer, that's fine. 9 MR. TROLINGER: The broadband is actually more 10 appropriate on the telephone line item. I think right now 11 it's all -- it's all rolled up in the telephone line items. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it included? 13 MR. TROLINGER: That's where the increase will come, 14 in is telephone for the DSL upgrade. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What will that upgrade cost? 16 MR. TROLINGER: $660 per year, and it's a recurring 17 cost. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 700 added to the 400? 19 MR. TROLINGER: If that's existing telephone, yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,100. 21 MR. ODOM: Instead of 22? That will be fine. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That excludes the computer, right? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you say about the 25 telephone line? Telephone, 420? 8-1-07 bwk 114 1 MR. TROLINGER: The telephone is actually where the 2 DSL, the broadband service -- 3 MS. HARGIS: So, add how much? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we add -- we leave capital 5 outlay at 400 and we increase Telephone to 6,100. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause it's going to be within 7 telephone? 8 MR. TROLINGER: The DSL, 600. 9 MR. ALFORD: What about printers for the plats? 10 MS. HARDIN: We had a printer for the plats. We get 11 the original copy of every plat, so -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: They don't want any, Brad, so we're 13 going to have to just get them on the county network, is what 14 we're talking about. 15 MR. ALFORD: Okay. 16 MR. TROLINGER: The -- the cost to upgrade the 17 broadband, I don't have an exact number on it. It's a rough 18 number, but $660 per year, and that's in the telephone line 19 item. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. TROLINGER: That is a recurring cost. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Increase 420 to 6,100 and leave 570 24 at 400, then. Is that what you got? Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While it's not in this 8-1-07 bwk 115 1 particular budget, I did talk to Leonard about giving me a 2 number, 'cause he's involved in it, to finish the bridge over 3 Flat Rock Lake Park. He still has some work on that he's -- 4 MR. ODOM: I'll get back with you on that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the Parks budget. 6 MR. ODOM: May I do this? I'm not a computer 7 person, but Truby's sitting back here. Do you have anything 8 to say about the computer, or will it work or not work? 9 MS. HARDIN: I would like to know what -- 10 MR. ODOM: Come on up here. 11 MS. HARDIN: -- the speed is that he wants to do 12 broadband that we don't have. 13 MR. ODOM: We're not trying to be controversial; 14 we're trying to make the thing work. If it's not broke, we 15 don't like to fix it. I'm just -- that's my whole way. 16 But -- and I know things are changing. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- well, that's the 18 whole point. 19 MR. ODOM: If we make the changes, let's make it 20 right the first time, because I turn it on and I turn it off, 21 and it'll come up to my favorites that I may need to look at 22 something. That's it. 23 MS. HARDIN: Okay. I'd like to know what the 24 broadband speed is that he's talking about. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the details of it, I do not 8-1-07 bwk 116 1 know exactly what will be available in October. We've got two 2 things going on. One is with the city, with the integrated 3 network. 4 MS. HARDIN: I just want to know what the maximum 5 speed's going to be. 6 MR. TROLINGER: And in that case, it will be very 7 high; we're talking about 4 Mbs. 8 MS. HARDIN: Whatever -- whatever we have now is the 9 highest that KTC offers, and that's what our system is on. 10 MR. TROLINGER: And then with KTC, there's an 11 option, which the Sheriff has done, to add a -- a second 12 modem, basically. 13 MS. HARDIN: And do we have a contract for our 14 telephone with the telephone company? Ours expired last year. 15 Did anybody ever -- you were supposed to do that. Do we have 16 that in place? 17 MR. ODOM: He wasn't here last year. 18 MS. HARDIN: Yes, he was there. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Last year's contract for your 20 telephone system, where you pay the maintenance costs each 21 year for -- 22 MS. HARDIN: No. 23 MR. TROLINGER: -- parts and pieces? 24 MS. HARDIN: Everything we have, computer and 25 telephone, is through KTC on one contract, under Telephone. 8-1-07 bwk 117 1 MR. TROLINGER: Right. And is it still being paid? 2 The Auditor would have to answer that. 3 MS. HARGIS: I don't know; I have to look. 4 MS. HARDIN: We just have a monthly fee. 5 MS. HARGIS: I will say that the KTC line, when we 6 put Incode on there, it won't be fast enough. You will be 7 really upset, because it -- 8 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 9 MR. TROLINGER: So, basically, that's what I'm 10 doing, is bumping that up to cover the -- 11 MS. HARGIS: You'll sit there and wait for the 12 computer to come up, and you're going to be frustrated. 13 Because with the -- when I was with the City, just to give you 14 an idea, Police Department -- John said he could actually fill 15 out by hand six purchase orders, because he was on KTC instead 16 of the broadband, and they're switching everybody to 17 broadband. 18 MR. ODOM: Okay. 19 MS. HARDIN: Okay. So that means, then, we're no 20 longer going to be -- our broadband will no longer be under 21 KTC? 22 MR. TROLINGER: Possibly. I don't have the details 23 worked out, but I have the costs. 24 MR. ODOM: I don't know how this phone system's 25 going to work, then. 8-1-07 bwk 118 1 MS. HARDIN: Well, I don't know. We no longer have 2 a contract; we're just going month-to-month on it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we let you guys work that 5 out while we go on with our budgets? 6 MS. HARDIN: Okay. I have two small things that he 7 didn't mention or didn't get to or whatever. On 15-600-461, 8 which is the lease copier, the -- we plugged in 1,800. I went 9 out and got informal bidding. It'll go down to 1,250. 10 MR. ODOM: So we can reduce that $550. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Truby -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line? Which line, 13 Truby? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 461. 15 MR. ODOM: 600. 16 MS. HARDIN: 600-461. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Does that have the network 18 capability so y'all can print to it from the computers? 19 MS. HARDIN: No. 20 MS. HYDE: We need that -- you need that. 21 MS. HARGIS: You really do need that. 22 MS. HARDIN: We have -- I have the price here. The 23 difference in the price was -- we now have 15,000 copies 24 before we have to pay anything, and that'll be at $104 a 25 month. If we go to where we network it, we get 3,000 copies, 8-1-07 bwk 119 1 and then we have to -- and the lease goes up $20 a month. So, 2 if you use the printer -- I mean, what they're doing is, 3 they're supplying -- they furnish you with all of the printing 4 materials to do the copier, so you're either looking at the 5 one for the printer or you're looking at the one for the 6 copier. And in my estimation, it was cheaper to just use the 7 printers that we have, which can be networked and are 8 networked. 9 MS. HARGIS: What you want on this is not 10 necessarily to be able to print into it, but you want to be 11 able to scan into it, so that, for instance, if you have some 12 documents that come in that you need to send to somebody by 13 e-mail, you can scan them into your printer with this internet 14 capability that you don't have right now, 'cause I -- 15 MS. HARDIN: I do have it on my printer. 16 MS. HARGIS: On your printer? 17 MS. HARDIN: 39 pages. 18 MS. HARGIS: It's still faster to do it on your copy 19 machine. It's much faster to do on it a copy machine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, are we back to 1,800 there? 21 MS. HARDIN: No, it's more than that. It's a lot 22 more than that. 23 MR. ODOM: Whatever y'all wish to do. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Leonard. 25 Appreciate you. 8-1-07 bwk 120 1 MS. HARDIN: It's a hundred -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: High level of cooperation 3 there. 4 MS. HARDIN: It's $150 a month. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 1,800. 6 MS. HARDIN: For 18 months -- no. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 12 months. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,800. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MS. HARDIN: Is that 1,800? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What else did you have there, Truby? 13 MS. HARDIN: Okay. The other one is just in -- on 14 15-611-569, you have in your copy projected for year-end as 15 20,000. All we had is 2,000, and I didn't know whether that 16 meant anything to you or not. But -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not so sure but what that wasn't 18 a -- 19 MR. ODOM: Typo, maybe. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a typo. The original budget 21 apparently was 2,000. 22 MS. HARDIN: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Looking at the historical numbers 24 running 1,500 to 2,300, and you've spent almost 2,000, and 25 it's saying 20,000. I -- 8-1-07 bwk 121 1 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 2 MR. ODOM: And the number was less than -- than this 3 year's budget, so I think that we're -- just a typo is what I 4 thought it was. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MS. HARDIN: I'd like to make one comment; it was 7 about the plat. All Jannett's doing is -- it's my 8 understanding, is she's taking that plat and she's scanning it 9 in so that she has an electronic record of it. We get the 10 original copy, and so we have a paper copy as a backup-type 11 thing. She gave us her old printer so we can print copies of 12 those original ones and hand them out if we need to do that. 13 I had a gentleman from the city the other day who said he 14 couldn't find original copies of plats, and we have those in 15 our office. So, I think sometimes the old way and the backup 16 needs to be there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know, on the plats, if 18 you're going to keep a copy of the -- hard copy, I don't know 19 why you really need the access to be able to print them. 20 I'm -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: Well, from an I.T. standpoint, what 22 happens if the building burns down? You have no backup. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but the backup -- Jannett 24 has a backup. 25 MS. HARDIN: She has a backup in her office. I have 8-1-07 bwk 122 1 one in mine. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's about to change. 3 That's about to change. 4 MR. TROLINGER: That's -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Copies in Jannett's office are 6 now going to be kept -- I think it's on the next agenda. I 7 put it on yesterday, and we still have to vote on it, but 8 everybody seems to be in agreement -- Jannett and Voelkel and 9 myself, so far -- that those copies that are being delivered 10 to her, she's going to scan them, but all the copies are going 11 to be held with the County Surveyor from now on, and all the 12 previous years, from the beginning, and all future years are 13 going to be kept in one place after they're scanned by her 14 department. She will no longer have any hard copies. 15 MR. ODOM: So, when they bring it in, they'll bring 16 the 11 copies to us. We'll still keep a copy and bring that 17 to the Court; am I right? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, you'll bring it to the 19 Court, but once that's done, it's -- there'll be a copy -- 20 they'll be an original put in -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're just saying they're 22 going to keep their hard copy -- 23 MR. ODOM: Hard copy. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in their files. If it gets 25 burnt up, they can go to Jannett -- 8-1-07 bwk 123 1 MR. ODOM: Or Lee. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- or Lee, who also have 3 backups. 4 MR. ODOM: That's what we're saying. I -- you know, 5 the old system works the way we've got it, particularly if 6 someone comes in. We go to the file and look it up. If they 7 got volume and page, we've got it. Anyway, but we'll look it 8 up and pull it off the screen. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, from their standpoint, 10 this system makes a lot more sense. Anyway, just -- I have a 11 real hard time seeing how it's going to be very user-friendly 12 with the digital version, working with it day to day. I mean, 13 I think if someone wants to look at one, that's going to be 14 fine, but to have to work with it every day, to put out one 15 here, one there, it's going to be a lot easier to have a hard 16 copy, which they have now. Anyway -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which we have. 18 MS. HARDIN: Thank you. 19 MR. ODOM: Old dog dies hard. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I understand. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was that pleasant? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Always. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. Let's move to the County 25 Clerk. That's under, I believe, Number 3. How close did I 8-1-07 bwk 124 1 get? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you in just a 3 second. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as I find it. Pretty 5 good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not many changes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I had gone over these with 9 Ms. Pieper, and under Personnel, you've got one merit that 10 you're asking for; is that correct? 11 MS. PIEPER: Actually, I'd like to call that a 12 raise. I don't think "merit" is the appropriate terminology. 13 This is a job increase in responsibility and duties on this 14 person. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, it's a job 16 description change. 17 MS. PIEPER: Not completely changed; it's just we've 18 added more -- I've added more duties onto this person, yes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- so -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Job responsibility increase. 21 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And that -- what is -- is that a -- 24 what, a one-step? 25 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 8-1-07 bwk 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. PIEPER: That person is now a 13-3, and I would 3 request it to be a 13-4. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Has there been any change as 5 far as you doing -- continuing to do civil and what has been 6 your responsibility, the civil court? 7 MS. PIEPER: No, there's no change at all. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To change -- Linda's not going 9 to that take responsibility? 10 MS. PIEPER: She and I have talked about it, but 11 it's not gotten that far yet. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's a division. Any -- 14 there's certain civil in County Court at Law that you 15 maintain, and there's other family law cases, I guess, that -- 16 MS. PIEPER: That she maintains, that's correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not being picky over 19 numbers; just curious about the Miscellaneous line. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The slush fund? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going down. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We budgeted -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you sure that what you had to do 25 is -- is complete? You may need to go back and check on that. 8-1-07 bwk 126 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We budgeted 400, and 4 projected year-end is zero. What does that mean exactly? Did 5 you spend exactly $400, or what does that mean? 6 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. According to this budget, 7 I've spent 127 of it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you will spend some more. 9 MS. PIEPER: I'll see what our last printout showed 10 that we've spent. No, it shows I have $272 left in that line 11 item. But that's just for miscellaneous things that come up. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 13 MS. PIEPER: I had 400 in there, and the Judge 14 thought that we could drop it down to 200, which is fine with 15 me. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. Thank you. 17 MS. PIEPER: Also, on the Line Item 569, we can take 18 that down to zero. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. We're doing good so 20 far. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Sure you don't want to go back 22 on up there, start at the top? 23 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. Y'all are going to give me 24 that, aren't you? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't done anything 8-1-07 bwk 127 1 yet. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not bad people. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The capital outlay that we've got 4 there, 5,760, that's I.T.-recommended, I think, isn't it? 5 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems that all of our -- we must 8 have, in the past several years, accomplished almost 9 county-wide a lot of our capital outlay requirements of 10 upgrading cabinets and things of that nature, 'cause that's 11 just -- you don't have -- I mean, pretty much all we have in 12 this budget for the most part are I.T. requests. I know other 13 years we've always had different file cabinets, changes in 14 other stuff, so I guess we've finally got to where we have 15 pretty good equipment in all that area. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Another item is, some of our 17 furnishings requests, Maintenance has been constructing some 18 of those, fabricating those directly to our needs, and I think 19 we ought to continue looking at that, 'cause they do an 20 excellent job. And -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: And, Jannett, aren't you trying to 22 sell or -- or auction cabinets? And you're purchasing 23 software and computer systems for -- 24 MS. PIEPER: Well, my plat cabinets is going to be 25 on the next agenda, for those to go to our County Surveyor. 8-1-07 bwk 128 1 But, yes, and then we did -- there was two cabinets we did on 2 eBay, and I guess there was no bids or whatever. They're 3 still downstairs, so -- 4 MR. TROLINGER: But all the things that were in 5 those cabinets are now -- 6 MS. PIEPER: Are now gone. 7 MR. TROLINGER: -- on the computer. 8 MS. PIEPER: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, so some of the money we 10 spent in the past is finally -- 11 MS. PIEPER: It's paying off. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- paying off, which is good. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see. The only other budget 14 that you've got any -- you got two more that you've got 15 expenditures -- actually, three. Records archival. You've 16 got one part-time salary out of that. And old records 17 preservation, that's a dedicated budget, is it not? That can 18 only be used for that purpose? 19 MS. PIEPER: On the Records Management Preservation, 20 the 28 fund? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 634. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Archival one. 23 MS. PIEPER: Those get confusing. Yes, that is a 24 self-funding account, and that is for the part-time employees. 25 And then on the Records Preservation, that is to have a 8-1-07 bwk 129 1 company come into the office and -- and start scanning old 2 records, start getting those out of the way. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What happens to those old ones 4 once they're scanned? 5 MS. PIEPER: Depending on if we can shred them, 6 we'll shred them, depending on the archival. If -- if it's 7 stuff from the 1800's, by law, I have to keep it. But, yet, 8 with them being scanned in, if somebody wants to search 9 history or something, it's much easier. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 MS. PIEPER: We don't have a whole lot of those. 12 Most of it is land records. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: '50's, '60's, '70's, all that 14 stuff? 15 MS. PIEPER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MS. PIEPER: And then I have a lot of court records 18 that we're trying to do ourself. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see. Then we go to Elections. 20 Big item there is the H.A.V.A. comes out. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 22 MS. PIEPER: But H.A.V.A.'s not over with yet, but 23 for right now, it's -- that portion of it's okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your big Records Management 25 budget, 404. 8-1-07 bwk 130 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to election. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- isn't that an 4 election year coming up, '07-'08? 5 MS. PIEPER: Yes. I have an amendment election in 6 November. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then we have primaries, and 8 then we have general. 9 MS. PIEPER: Then we have primaries, right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It looks like -- I would have 11 thought it would be more of an increase this year. Looks 12 like, basically -- 13 MS. PIEPER: Well, for this November election, we're 14 consolidating it to four locations, so that's going to be a 15 good cost savings. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But the -- the primary 17 and the general will probably -- 18 MS. PIEPER: On the primary, we only pay for mail 19 ballots and early voting. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, all that's reimbursed from 21 the parties, then? 22 MS. PIEPER: No, that is county. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, but the -- 24 MS. PIEPER: The actual election day, when you have 25 150-plus workers, the primaries pay that. 8-1-07 bwk 131 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They pay for that. And the 2 ballot expense of 10,000 is enough to cover the general 3 election? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: General won't be in that budget year. 5 The budget -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. It's in the -- 7 MS. PIEPER: This November general election will 8 be -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right, okay. 10 MS. PIEPER: -- will be in this budget we're 11 speaking of, but the parties will pay for the programming and 12 ballots and all of that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I was thinking that the 14 general was into this budget. It's into the next one. 15 MS. PIEPER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You would notice something 17 like that coming up in an election year. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Want to make sure there's a 20 ballot there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear his question? 22 "Isn't there an election next year?" Yeah, right. 23 MS. PIEPER: With the primaries as well coming up in 24 March, the party chairs, I'm sure, is going to come in and ask 25 about using the building, because I am not holding their 8-1-07 bwk 132 1 election. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess we'll wait and see 3 what happens. 4 MS. PIEPER: The idea is to let them use the common 5 area below for the central count. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Records Management, the big 8 records management budget. I say big; it's -- you got a lot 9 in the other one. But you're proposing to add one deputy 10 there -- to allocate there? 11 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. She's working 12 part-time now, and I would like to make her a full-time. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is that a half a person, 14 then, as far as the budget is concerned? She's already half; 15 you just add another half? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have one and a half there 17 previously? 18 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you have? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: One person at 50,000? 21 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. Out of that budget, I have 22 two people. This will make a third. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So we got three, okay. Now, 24 is that one of your existing positions that you're moving over 25 under that budget? 8-1-07 bwk 133 1 MS. PIEPER: That person is now being paid out of 2 the other Records Management under part-time. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Records Archival? 4 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're converting that part-time 6 person to a full-time person? 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's an existing person, albeit 9 a part-time person now? 10 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But does the Records Archival -- 13 you're going to hire another part-time person? 14 MS. PIEPER: I would like to, yes. I would -- this 15 person that I am hiring -- that I would like to hire for this, 16 I would like her to be mainly assigned to my County Court at 17 Law section, taking care of all the records there. But the 18 staff that I have there, they keep up with court to a point, 19 but our files are building up. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to replace a 21 part-time under Records Archival? 22 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You are. So, what we're 24 doing, then, is adding from a self-funded -- we're adding to 25 the County's funding, right? For this other position? 8-1-07 bwk 134 1 MS. PIEPER: One of those funds also helps to fund 2 this account. I don't know how the Auditor works that. I 3 believe it's the Fund 28 fund. As of April, I know, Mindy 4 said that there was $96,000 in there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Net increase in your office is one 6 full-time person; is that what we're hearing? 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But you're not increasing the funding 9 out of your County-funded budget, but rather out of the 10 restricted budgets for records archival, records maintenance? 11 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Self-funded. 13 MS. PIEPER: That is correct, other than the 14 longevity plus the one raise. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So, this -- the new 17 position comes out of a dedicated fund. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Would not the longevity -- 19 MS. PIEPER: No, that person's not entitled to 20 longevity. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about under your 22 general County Clerk budget? 23 MS. PIEPER: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 25 MS. PIEPER: And just for your benefit, on the 8-1-07 bwk 135 1 general fund, at one point my office had three -- what was 2 classified as three senior clerks, and an administrative 3 bookkeeper, and those titles have been eliminated. The pay 4 from the three senior clerks went -- when they moved on, I did 5 not fund those positions. Instead, I hired at a lower rate, 6 just a deputy position. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MS. PIEPER: There was too many chiefs, basically. 9 So, we've done away with that, which helped the funding as 10 well. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. 12 MS. HARGIS: So, you're not paying under -- under 13 28, just so I'm clear? 14 MS. PIEPER: No, nothing in 28. I'm all zeros. 15 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's pretty much it for you, 17 isn't it? Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 18 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What time's our workshop? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 2:00. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We may be here till then after 23 we have lunch. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we just going to work 8-1-07 bwk 136 1 through this and then go to lunch, Judge? Which would be my 2 hope. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not what my hopes are. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your wife's out there. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I know. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why it's not his hope. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In which case -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She drove all the way in. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm hopeful that we might knock out 10 these next two rather quickly. Let's see if we can't do that. 11 Juvenile Detention. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What number? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 23. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You gave us a new set of 15 numbers, didn't you? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: There's only one number that's 17 changed. Now, the roll-ups are going to change, but there 18 was -- that's the only number that changed from after we went 19 over your budget, isn't it, Mr. Stanton? Just the one number 20 on the additional juvenile detention officer? 21 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. STANTON: Well, there are actually -- there 24 would be another number, because if we're able to hire this 25 other J.D.O., we'd be able to reduce the part-time budget by 8-1-07 bwk 137 1 15,000, so that would -- I mean, we would be able to reduce it 2 from 30,000 down to 15,000 by being able to hire this new 3 J.D.O. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The net change is -- 5 MR. STANTON: Net change would be $21,369, is what 6 it would cost the County. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the increase overall? 8 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That includes the roll-ups too, 10 doesn't it? 11 MR. STANTON: No, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It doesn't, okay. 13 MR. STANTON: The net increase overall for the 14 County in this year's budget would be 69,116. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 16 MR. STANTON: 69,116. That's with the -- I mean, 17 that's with hiring the new person and that's with everybody in 18 my department except for three of us, I believe, are getting 19 cost-of-living -- or longevity increases this year. So, we've 20 got a lot doing that. And we also, with the help of -- with 21 Human Resources Department, because when we -- when we changed 22 over and took over last year, the people that we hired were -- 23 that we retained were all the shift supervisors, basically, 24 from both sides of the building. And what we had to do is, 25 when we hired in -- when we came in, we didn't change 8-1-07 bwk 138 1 anybody's salaries; we left everybody's salaries the same and 2 just went to work. And what we've tried to do this year is to 3 plug everybody into the step and grade to where they need to 4 be. And we put the shift supervisors at 18, the J.D.O.'s at 5 16, and the control room operator at 14, and plugged them 6 into -- the closest that we could, to where they were at 7 before. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we were previously presented 9 with, there's two numbers that are going to change. The -- 10 the detention officer will be increased, and the part-time 11 will be decreased. Is that what I'm hearing? 12 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. STANTON: And, actually, I gave you -- I gave 15 you the wrong number. The correct number on the overall 16 change would be 54,116, not 69. I'm sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 54? 18 MR. STANTON: 54,116. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Give me the detention officer -- the 20 correct detention officer number. 21 MR. STANTON: That should be on the -- it's -- the 22 total salary should be 315,982. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And then part-time goes to what? 24 MR. STANTON: To 15,000. From 30 to 15. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. With an 8-1-07 bwk 139 1 overall net change of 54,116. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the 30 that you requested on 3 part-time that's in the most recent thing which you gave me 4 needs to be reduced by 15? 5 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me about the new 8 employee. Is there something wonderful and magical about this 9 person, or what -- what's the deal? 10 MR. STANTON: Well, the wonderful and magical thing 11 about it -- about any employee out there is the fact that 12 they're certified, and that the problem that we're having is 13 that our part-time positions aren't like everybody else's 14 part-time position. We call part-time people in on a random 15 basis to fill in for people during holiday, vacation, sick 16 time, those types of situations, where it's not a -- a regular 17 part-time position where they have set hours. And so it's 18 really hard for us to keep our good part-time people, because, 19 you know, we might use them two days one week, not any for the 20 next two weeks, and then four days the next week, and they 21 work 12-hour shifts. And so it's real hard to keep the good 22 people that -- that -- you know, the good part-time people 23 that we need. And by being able to hire one, what we're 24 trying to do is hire one of the part-time people that we have 25 now, to hire one of them to -- actually, what their job 8-1-07 bwk 140 1 description -- what they would be is a J.D.O., but what they 2 would be doing is filling in for the 1,200 hours a year that 3 we have scheduled for vacation time for all the employees out 4 there, plus being able to fill in for holiday time, comp time, 5 and other things like that. And what we're going to do is 6 schedule everybody's vacation out for the whole year, and 7 basically then we'll work the new person's schedule into that 8 where they'll cover everybody, so we'll be able to reduce the 9 amount of part-timers and the amount of part-time people we 10 have to use. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But this person will be a 12 full-time, 40-hour -- 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- employee? 15 MR. STANTON: There will only be -- with the 1,200 16 hours we schedule for the vacation time, a normal part -- or a 17 normal full-time person, I think, works 2,080 hours a year, so 18 we're only looking at about 880 hours left over for the whole 19 year that they won't be filling in for people taking vacation 20 time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And this is an individual that has 22 demonstrated dependability and is already certified? Has the 23 appropriate training and certification? 24 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like a good plan. 8-1-07 bwk 141 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes sense. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Next question. There's -- there's a 4 recommendation that we -- that we do some modification there 5 by that outside building. 6 MR. STANTON: I have it on my list. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you coming to that? 8 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. There's actually four 9 things -- or three things I wanted to talk to the Court about. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. STANTON: One is the gate. Juvenile Probation 12 Department and -- and the detention facility, I know that 13 we're looking at leasing that building, and that still is -- 14 is a little bit down the road; we haven't got the final 15 results. But the Probation Department has been utilizing the 16 rear classroom of the old detention facility to hold a lot of 17 their classes. They hold -- their drug and alcohol counseling 18 I think is out there now, their Probation Assisting Education, 19 and their 4-H program. And what we would like to do is to be 20 able to put a gate on the outside of the building, or to fit a 21 gate on the outside of the building where they could access 22 that classroom without having to go through the main building 23 every time. And the estimates we've got, it's going to cost 24 about $700 to do that, and so that was another thing that we 25 were looking at to present to the Court to see. I believe 8-1-07 bwk 142 1 that I could probably go ahead and do it now out of my current 2 budget if we wanted to do that, but that would be something 3 that would be really helpful for the Probation Department. 4 So -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That makes sense. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does make sense. I'm 7 curious about what kind of gate you're putting in there. I 8 mean, it's going to have to be something -- if we lease the 9 other facility out -- 10 MR. STANTON: Well, the way it's structured is that 11 when you go out the back -- the very back of the old facility, 12 there's already -- and then there's a portable building over 13 here. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 15 MR. STANTON: There's already a gate before you walk 16 up; there's already a gate here. What we would do is secure 17 this gate, and then at the end of the little walkway, there's 18 another fence over here; we'd put the gate over here where you 19 could open it, so that building would still be secure. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 21 MR. STANTON: Away from the portable building. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the contingent plan 24 in the event we lease the building and we -- the outfit 25 leasing it wants to use those classrooms? 8-1-07 bwk 143 1 MR. STANTON: The two groups that we've talked to, 2 you and I -- or I've talked to them; I don't know if you 3 specifically talked to them about this, but I've talked to 4 them, and they said that most of the time when they would -- 5 the Probation Department would be utilizing that building is 6 at night, and they would not be utilizing that classroom at 7 nighttime. And so the Probation Department could still 8 utilize it, especially if we had the gate on the outside where 9 they didn't have to walk the kids through the middle of their 10 secure area. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thanks. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Conjunctive use, I've talked to 13 the -- to the contract proposers, and it's both evenings and 14 weekends, and they indicated their use would be during the 15 day. And they didn't see a problem with conjunctive use. 16 So -- 17 MR. STANTON: The other thing that I'd like the 18 Commissioners -- I'd like you guys to think about is that the 19 camera system that we currently have at the facility, we go 20 through approximately about 800 VCR tapes a year, at a cost of 21 about $4,000 a year, and the quality of the -- the quality of 22 the tapes -- or the quality of the video, the recordings, is 23 not very good. It's -- and we are asking -- or looking at 24 possibly changing out our camera system and our security 25 system to a digital-type recording system, and it looks like 8-1-07 bwk 144 1 it's going to be in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $35,000 to 2 change that system out to a digital recording system. And, 3 last but not least, is being this is our first full year in 4 the new building, we were running into a little problem as far 5 as locks on four of the doors out there. We've had 6 Maintenance out there. We've had locksmiths from here in 7 Kerrville out there. We've had locksmiths from San Antonio 8 out there. Nobody seems to be able to fix it. And Brinks 9 wants approximately $850 per lock to replace the locks, plus 10 installation, and that's for them to come out there and fix 11 these doors. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are electronics locks? 13 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And how many we talking about? 15 MR. STANTON: Right now, there's four of them, at 16 approximately $4,000. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the installation cost, about 18 $150 per? 19 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, about $1,000 turnkey per lock? 21 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. I'm sure the Probation 22 Department would love it if we could do that so they don't get 23 stuck between the doors and have to sit there for 15 minutes 24 waiting for a key. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And your new digital cameras was how 8-1-07 bwk 145 1 much? 2 MR. STANTON: 30,000 to 35,000. That's going on the 3 Sheriff's figures; he's the one that gave me those numbers. I 4 had got some estimates of 25 to 30. He said 30 to 35, 5 somewhere in there. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds normal. 7 MR. STANTON: So -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You say that you feel like you've got 9 enough in this year's budget -- you got enough room to go 10 ahead and do the gate out of this year's budget? 11 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Would that include the -- whatever's 13 necessary on the electrical for the security lighting? I 14 think the lights are already there, aren't they, on the west 15 side of that building? 16 MR. STANTON: There are lights already over there. 17 I have not stood out there at night to see if they come on yet 18 or not. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And maybe an electronic -- of course, 20 that would be good for security anyway, wouldn't it? 21 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably so. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have enough wiggle 24 room in this year's budget to do the locks? 25 MR. STANTON: I'd have to look and see. I'm not 8-1-07 bwk 146 1 sure. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe do two. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe do -- yeah, maybe do 4 half. 5 MR. STANTON: Right. I can look and see. I'm not 6 positive on that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Your annual supplies for the VHS 8 tapes are, like, $4,000 a year? 9 MR. STANTON: Four bucks a piece. We have to have 10 some kind of specialized tapes. They're -- the tapes are $4 a 11 piece, and we actually -- I mean, we go through about 700 to 12 750 tapes a year. My math might be wrong. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 400 -- about three grand, yeah. 14 MR. STANTON: Is that right? Three grand. And then 15 the problem is, where do you store the 700 tapes a year? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If you're going on C.D., 17 it's -- 18 MR. STANTON: We've got -- we've got -- actually, 19 we've got two rooms -- two cell blocks or two rooms full of 20 VCR tapes. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got to be a better way. 22 MR. STANTON: It seems like there would be, yes, 23 sir. And just the overall quality of being able to -- like, 24 when we had our escape attempt a good while back, the hardest 25 part of the whole thing was being able to utilize the tapes 8-1-07 bwk 147 1 that we had. I mean, we had six different views of what 2 happened. It was just being able to actually determine what 3 exactly happened from watching the video tapes, because they 4 were so -- the quality was so poor. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably something we 6 need to do. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See if you can come up with the 10 liability -- there's a huge liability out there. We need the 11 cameras so you can see what's going on. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: See if you can get a better estimate 13 than what you got from the Sheriff. 14 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then the gate, that's -- go 16 ahead and just do that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do it now. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the locks, if we can 19 get that done this year -- 20 MR. STANTON: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as well. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Even better. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It amazes me that our 25 facility was built with bad locks and bad cameras, and I can't 8-1-07 bwk 148 1 remember what all we fixed since we've owned the thing. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Septic system. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sewer system. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 MR. STANTON: One of the -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Electric. 8 MR. STANTON: Well, and I think this is something 9 that Maintenance can fix, but something that probably needs to 10 be brought up is we still get flooded every time it rains. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's okay. 12 MR. STANTON: The kitchen -- in the kitchen and the 13 main quarter. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's tough. 15 MR. STANTON: We get an inch -- an inch of water in 16 there every time we get a good rain, just because -- and I'm 17 not sure what it is. It's something with the sallyport and 18 the drainage and everything. It just -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make sure you don't plug in 20 appliances when you're standing in the water. 21 MR. STANTON: We put our Coke machine and our candy 22 machine right there, so it's -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you put, like, a French 24 drain somewhere? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably. 8-1-07 bwk 149 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right through the kitchen? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't Leonard go out and 3 take a look at that with a view toward -- 4 MR. STANTON: Not since I've been here, no, sir. 5 Tim's been out there a few times, and he's come up with some 6 ideas of how to fix it, but we just -- he hasn't -- it's 7 getting the equipment out there. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we have Mr. Odom 9 take a look at it? 10 MR. STANTON: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I am not the liaison to Road 12 and Bridge. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I am the liaison to 14 Juvenile Detention, so I'll talk to Leonard. 15 MR. STANTON: We appreciate it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The capital outlay, then, you're 17 going to give us an update on that number, correct? 18 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, on the -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The current one is I.T.-driven, 20 according to the notes that I've got. 21 MR. STANTON: Well, it's -- the I.T. that 22 Mr. Trolinger's talking about and the I.T. that I'm talking 23 about are different. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. The current number of 25 12,9, that's all I.T.-driven, according to what I have. 8-1-07 bwk 150 1 MR. STANTON: Oh, okay. I don't have that in my 2 budget, the 12,9. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, your capital outlay is going 4 to a minimum of 42,9. We added 30,000 for the cameras. 5 MR. STANTON: And I guess I don't have any capital 6 outlay -- I've got it in operating equipment. I put $2,000 in 7 there because we need to purchase a new computer. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's in there. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But the capital outlay, that's 10 12,9, and I'm showing that as being I.T.-recommended. 11 MR. STANTON: Yeah, that's totally I.T. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, anything with the locks or the 13 new digital camera system's going to have to be addressed on 14 top of the 12,9, whatever you can't -- for example, if you can 15 absorb a couple of those locks in this year's -- 16 MR. STANTON: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The balance, plus the camera, will 18 have to go into this current budget, so if you'll try and get 19 us a good estimate on that, and we'll try and get that plugged 20 in. 21 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think I missed an 24 item. I have four locks and the camera. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a door. 8-1-07 bwk 151 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gate. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gate. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be -- that's going to 4 be handled out of this year's budget, though. He said he's 5 got the funds to go ahead and do that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: From what he's got. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? What was the 9 figure, about? 10 MR. STANTON: About 700. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 700. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About 1,000 a piece for the 13 locks, if he can -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MR. STANTON: I guess the burning question on the 17 lock situation, is that something that I need to take care of, 18 or is that something that Maintenance -- 'cause that was kind 19 of a discussion that -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 21 MR. STANTON: -- that Tim and I had, was who needs 22 to be the person that does that, and whose budget does it come 23 out of? And, I mean, I -- I know that it can come out of 24 mine; that's fine. I just -- that was the question -- 25 conversation that we had, that he didn't know the answer and I 8-1-07 bwk 152 1 didn't know the answer to. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would say Maintenance. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it ought to go under 5 Maintenance. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Increase his budget. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, by 4,000. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Lock maintenance, juvenile -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have a separate detention 11 facility maintenance, and when we're looking at operating 12 costs for that facility, because we're going to be talking 13 about leasing that, I think we need to keep these costs 14 segregated, just like at the jail. And I'd just as soon not 15 create an entire new budget for detention facility 16 maintenance. I'd like to keep that as part of the facility, 17 so that when we look leasing costs and what our costs are, 18 leave that over there, as opposed to shifting it over to a 19 general maintenance budget. Does that make sense? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, yeah, it does. We're 22 trying to fashion what the cost would be to lease it, yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Needs to stay in there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, I think we need to leave it with 8-1-07 bwk 153 1 you. 2 MR. STANTON: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And right now, he's going to 4 take the gate out of his current budget, so there may be a 5 couple of locks. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it comes out of your 7 budget, but I think it should be run through Maintenance. 8 That makes sense to me. I mean, run through Maintenance from 9 the standpoint of Tim coordinate the lock people. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Coordinate the activity. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Activity. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, that's okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Not a problem. We need to keep the 14 costs there so that we know what our costs on that facility 15 are. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He needs to know what's 17 going on in case he has to repair them. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. We need 19 to let him do the work, even if it's out of your budget. 20 MR. STANTON: The unfortunate situation is, nobody 21 can do the work on these locks except for Brinks, and they 22 seem to know that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: They're proud of their people, aren't 24 they? 25 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 8-1-07 bwk 154 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's next? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all want to go ahead and try and 4 knock out the probation? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go to lunch. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we -- why don't we 7 go ahead and come back -- come back about quarter till 2:00, I 8 guess. We'll be in recess until quarter till 2:00. 9 (Recess taken from 12:20 p.m. to 1:53 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order, if 12 we might, and we'll go to the next item on the list. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, you -- you just might 14 mention that our workshop's going to be delayed a little 15 while. There are some people here for that workshop. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I appreciate that. We had 17 scheduled a workshop dealing with the Youth Exhibit Center 18 policies and rentals and things of that nature; it was 19 scheduled for 2 o'clock. We're still working on the budget 20 workshop that convened at 9 o'clock this morning. I think the 21 intent is that we'll go ahead and finish our budget, and then 22 when we conclude our budget, we'll pick up with the workshop, 23 so that'll be delayed for a short period of time. Insofar as 24 being able to tell you exactly, I can't do that. Just stand 25 by and periodically check in. The next item we got is the 8-1-07 bwk 155 1 Juvenile Probation Department. That's -- 19? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The figures there are the ones 4 that have been approved by the Juvenile Board. The roll-ups 5 are not calculated. I expect we're going to let the Auditor 6 do that. The one that, of course, jumps off the page is on 7 the second page, 482, Alternative Housing. That number has 8 grown significantly. The -- the number projected for this 9 year is not correct. What did you calculate that one to be, 10 190-something? 11 MR. DAVIS: The actual projected? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 MR. DAVIS: $249,857.41. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's back up. Projected this year, 15 year-end. 16 MR. DAVIS: What I did was I looked at October 1st, 17 '05, to May 3rd, '06 when I put these numbers together. The 18 number of bed days, that's 1,488 bed days that we had -- "we" 19 being Juvenile Probation -- had in the J.D.C. Not talking 20 about any other numbers with any other placements, any other 21 facilities. This is strictly Kerr County to Kerr County 22 members I'm talking about during that time period of 10-1-05 23 to 5-3-06, 1,488 bed days. I looked at -- when I put these 24 numbers together, I put them together on May 3rd. Where we 25 were at that point in time of the year, October 1st, '06 to 8-1-07 bwk 156 1 May 3rd of '07, we went to 1,402 bed days, so 14.38 percent 2 increase in the number of bed days. That initially was about 3 when I put together the number of 230,000. I went back in and 4 realized that I'd made a mistake in my numbers and I had not 5 calculated that the 1,488 bed days was at the $83-a-day rate 6 that the department was then paying. The rate as of 7 September 1st, '06, was at $90 a day, so that's going to be 8 another 8.43 percent increase. 9 MS. HARGIS: And in numbers, now, 249 what? 10 MR. DAVIS: The actual request is 250. $249,857.41, 11 based on -- when I was looking at the actual money that was 12 spent in '05-'06, and which that ended up being $202,133. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a projected year-end number? 14 MR. DAVIS: That was the actual for '05-'06. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. Based on that, and then I was 17 doing my projections and my increase, where we were in '05-'06 18 and where I -- going on the 14 percent increase in bed days, 19 and then factoring in the 8.43 percent increase in costs per 20 bed day, that's where I get the great big humungous number 21 that you see before you now. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the $90 a day. 23 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that number going to hold 25 for '07-'08? 8-1-07 bwk 157 1 MR. DAVIS: It'll be up to, I'm assuming, this 2 Court, because these are strictly Kerr County numbers. The 3 number of this -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I mean as a per diem rate 5 that's charged us, is that 90 going to hold? 6 MR. DAVIS: It should, yes, sir, unless Kevin comes 7 back and -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's our number? 9 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, sorry. 11 MR. DAVIS: This number is strictly talking about -- 12 this is strictly on Kerr County numbers. This is not even 13 including a single placement in a single facility outside of 14 Kerr County. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I misunderstood. Thank you. 16 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. I apologize. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, my fault. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- you know, with those 19 assumptions, which -- shouldn't we allow for placement 20 elsewhere? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, now, he's got some other funds 22 that he -- state funds that he can use for that, and that's 23 what he tries to use them for. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: This is money that's going across the 8-1-07 bwk 158 1 hall, as it were. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right pocket to the left. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we just -- so there's -- then 6 you keep it in another budget. 7 MR. DAVIS: Correct, yes, sir. For clarification, 8 we have budgeted -- this current fiscal year, we have roughly 9 $117,000 of state money that we can use for secure placements 10 and facilities wherever we choose. We can choose them in our 11 facility; we can use them at Rockdale or wherever we would 12 like. That number's going to increase by at least 16,000 for 13 '07-'08, and potentially more, but we've been told 16,000 is a 14 pretty firm number. We don't have a definite -- the check is 15 not in the bank, but we've been told it is in the mail. I'll 16 believe it when I see it, but I think the 16 is pretty firm. 17 We may get more. But that is actually state money. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jason, you have to forgive 19 me; I go in and out of a coma sometimes. And I want to use 20 the Judge's formula on previous budgets that we've looked at. 21 And what we do is look at the projected year-end, and that 22 says 145,000, and now you're asking for 250,000. Would you 23 step through that with -- for me just one more time? How we 24 -- how we're making that giant leap? 25 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. There's two -- before I go 8-1-07 bwk 159 1 into -- yes, sir, I will. The first thing -- thanks, Kevin -- 2 I want to look at is, we're seasonal in our budgets, 3 oftentimes. For instance, right now we're down as far as our 4 number of bed days and where we are in detention. Now, our 5 placement rate in other facilities is pretty consistent; it's 6 a pretty constant number. That doesn't fluctuate as much, but 7 the number of kids we have in -- now I'm switching over to 8 strictly Kerr County Juvenile Facility. The number of kids we 9 have there will vary greatly, anywhere from, you know, 3 or 4 10 kids at a time to 12, 15 kids at a time. With that being 11 said, you know, for instance, May of 2006 -- and Kevin just 12 gave me these numbers, but, you know, he's looking at his 13 facility billed out $40,000. In June of 2006, they billed out 14 less than 20,000. That's -- summer hit; school's out, less 15 kids get picked up at school, less arrests at school, those 16 types of issues. There's going to be a fluctuation, so when 17 you're looking at the projected year-end, that's got to be 18 factored in, that we're going to have these waves. And that 19 is why, when I was looking at this, I was looking at the 20 actual money that was spent, because I think that that 21 fluctuation will really account for that. 22 Now, with that being said, and with that stipulation 23 in place, I come back to the formula we put together, and what 24 I did was I looked at the actual money spent for '05 and '06. 25 Not any projections, but what we actually spent at the end of 8-1-07 bwk 160 1 the year. When I took that number -- and I don't know where I 2 put that -- what I did was I looked at '05-'06 and I said, 3 okay, the actual money is 202,133. And I said I want to 4 compare where we are at this point in time of the year -- the 5 target -- the date there was May 3rd. I want to compare where 6 we are in '06-'07 as to where we were in '05-'06. And when I 7 do that, when I look at those numbers, based on the numbers 8 that I have -- of kids, bed days in the J.D.C., we've got a 9 14 -- is that right? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 14. 11 MR. DAVIS: 14 percent rate. 14.38. That's for the 12 first increase. That's the first jump. Okay, the second jump 13 is on the actual costs that we're paying per bed day. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. DAVIS: In '05-'06, we were paying $83 a bed 16 day, and in '06-'07, we're paying $90 a bed day. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 MR. DAVIS: That's going to be an increase of 19 8.43 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MR. DAVIS: Hence the massive jump. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $7. 23 MR. DAVIS: Is that clear as mud now, Commissioner? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it's clear as mud. 25 Seven dollars a kid increase from one year to the next, and 8-1-07 bwk 161 1 what -- how many kids are we talking about increase? 2 MR. DAVIS: Talking about -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't know, because we 4 fluctuate. 5 MR. DAVIS: During the point that I -- exactly, we 6 don't know. But, you know, if I'm looking at bed days, you 7 know, we're not talking about actual children. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand the difference. 9 MR. DAVIS: But as far as bed days go -- 14, 15, 10 16 -- 214 -- 214 additional bed days from '05-'06 to '06-'07. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: For the same time period. 12 MR. DAVIS: In the same time period. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, do we have a cap on how 14 many young people we house there per day? 15 MR. DAVIS: As many beds as he has; 25, I believe. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 25 is the cap? 17 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that what you're set up for, 20 Kevin? You can take as many as 20 -- what, 24? 21 MR. STANTON: We can hold 25 kids. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 25? 23 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're staffed to the 25? 25 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 8-1-07 bwk 162 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're staffed to 32 or 2 something like that, I think. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 MR. STANTON: Actually 32, yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then how does this 6 affect -- if we have an increase in Kerr County beds, what do 7 you do about that with these other counties? How do you 8 handle that? 9 MR. STANTON: Well, I mean, if we ever get -- if we 10 ever get to 25 kids and we're packed, and Kerr County brings 11 in another kid, we call one of the outstanding counties and 12 say, "You need to come pick your kid up; we've got a Kerr 13 County kid." 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you ever had to do that? 15 MR. STANTON: No, sir, not to this point we haven't. 16 We've gotten up to 25 kids, I think, four or five times this 17 past year, and luckily, we've had court the next day or 18 something like that, and the kids have been released or 19 something like that, so we've never had to actually remove a 20 kid. 21 MR. DAVIS: If I can intervene, Commissioner, you 22 know, if we get to that situation, Kevin knows he can call me 23 if he wants to have a detention hearing on a kid or maybe do a 24 conditional release so that he can get money coming in from 25 another county, you know, unless we just specifically have to 8-1-07 bwk 163 1 have a kid in there. There's usually one or two that we 2 could, you know, feasibly safely release. So, if -- you know, 3 if we're looking at having some other county money come in, 4 it's very feasible that -- and likely that we could just 5 release one of our kids from custody. 6 MR. STANTON: This might help everybody to 7 understand a little bit better. If you take and just look at 8 that one -- this is the paperwork that I handed Jason -- 9 Mr. Davis a few seconds ago. If you look down at -- what it 10 is is a breakdown of all the counties that we contract with, 11 and it's actually a total of what each county represents as 12 far as our billable days and number of kids. If you glance 13 down about six lines to Kerr County, you'll notice that so far 14 this budget year, Kerr County has put in $223,820. That's how 15 much has come out of Jason -- Mr. Davis' budget into my 16 budget, as far as from the Probation Department to revenues, 17 and they represent 65 percent -- or not 65 -- 83 percent of 18 our billable days. So, with two months left, if you project 19 those numbers out, with two months left, yeah, Jason's looking 20 at close to $260,000 this budget year that we're currently in. 21 If his numbers continue to be the same for the next two 22 months, he's looking at approximately $260,000 that it's going 23 to cost him just to house preadjudicated kids. Now, when 24 we're talking about these kiddoes that -- and, like 25 Commissioner Letz mentioned, well, shouldn't we look at other 8-1-07 bwk 164 1 places to put kids? Yeah, we do. But we only hold 2 preadjudicated kids here. We -- we put the post kids 3 everywhere else, and those are the long-term kids. And, so, 4 just the pre kids itself, and -- and their numbers have gone 5 up a lot. I mean, they've detained 317 kids so far this year. 6 Last year at this point -- and I'd have to go back and look 7 for sure, but last year at this point, I think they were down 8 at about 260. 9 MR. DAVIS: 267, somewhere around there. 10 MR. STANTON: 267. 11 MR. DAVIS: One other factor, as well. Rex tells me 12 that his petitions -- which the petitions are filed for 13 adjudications in a juvenile case -- are up 22 percent, which 14 is an extremely -- and I was looking at our 14; I said, "Oh, 15 my goodness, this is a bad number," and he says, "We're up 16 22 percent." 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can see how that number 18 factors into growth later. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But to go to Commissioner 20 Baldwin's first question, the reason that 145 is not an 21 accurate number, we're already at 223, and it's probably 22 closer to 260. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 8-1-07 bwk 165 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are your out-of-county 2 expenses, or housing expenses for kids you send out of county? 3 Where are they reflected? 4 MR. DAVIS: We've got -- right now, the sources for 5 those revenues are either state money or out of this account. 6 This line item or state funds, either one. They don't break 7 it down into pre or post. It's a secure facility or a 8 non-secure. Are these lock-down places where they can't get 9 out of, or is it a treatment center where they can walk out 10 the door? And so the facilities we're using -- Rockdale, Hays 11 County, those primarily are the two we've used this year. 12 We've got a couple others that we utilize, but those are 13 primarily what we're looking at right now, are those two 14 facilities. And it does -- it would be this line item with 15 the two additional state line items which, again, right now 16 this -- this year, about 117,000, and at least 16, and 17 possibly more from the State next year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About how many youth do we 19 have placed outside the county? 20 MR. DAVIS: At any point in time -- like, right now 21 I think we have five kids in placement. We have four or five. 22 Just a second, Commissioner, and I can give you a -- if I find 23 my -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And those are -- 25 MR. DAVIS: I can give you an actual number, not a 8-1-07 bwk 166 1 guess. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And those are, like, 3 specialized treatment facility-type -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Long-term. They may be sex offender 5 treatment, they may be substance abuse treatment, or they may 6 be special behavioral programs. Those are the generally the 7 three that they go to. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have a slot for me 9 somewhere in one of those? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We -- I've been looking, but I 11 haven't found anybody that's willing to accept you. You got 12 to have -- the facility has to agree to accept a particular -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's hard. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Age may be a factor. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it might be. Okay. 16 MR. DAVIS: Last year at this point in time -- or 17 when I was looking, as of our May 3rd date, which is when I 18 put this together, we had spent roughly $105,000 out of county 19 in other placements. '06-'07 at this same point in time, we 20 were actually down to 83 -- a little over $83,000, so 21 out-of-county placements had actually gone down, which is 22 keeping -- attempting the keep more of our money here when we 23 can. With the changes in T.Y.C., I don't know how that'll 24 affect us as far as placements. Obviously, we can't send 25 misdemeanor children to T.Y.C. now, so you would say, "Well, 8-1-07 bwk 167 1 you're going to be placing more children." The other side of 2 that is, you've got every department in the state fighting 3 over a limited number of beds, which is why this empty 4 building that's sitting out here is a bright, shiny object to 5 a lot of people, because there are a lot of people watching 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess my only question is, 8 is 250,000 enough? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, based upon the 223 number, it 10 would indicate it may not be. However, he does have some 11 state funds if he -- if he doesn't use it for long-term 12 postadjudication placements, such as we also have some boot 13 camps that come out of there. But if they're only going to 14 increase that by 16,000, there's going to be more pressure to 15 put children that might otherwise belong in T.Y.C., because of 16 the rule changes, where we're going to be compelled to put 17 them in secure facilities long-term, postadjudication, and I 18 see that number as probably going up because of the T.Y.C. 19 rules that -- go ahead, Jason. I'm sorry. 20 MR. DAVIS: One other thing is the 117 plus the 21 other 16,000 we're looking at for next year, that's a 22 guaranteed number; that's what we know that they're going to 23 give us. There are some other incentive programs, whatever 24 you want to call it, some other pools of money available that 25 we're constantly applying for. Small county diversionary fund 8-1-07 bwk 168 1 for counties with juvenile populations -- juvenile age 2 populations under 4,000, which we're 3,993 this year. We just 3 made it under the wire. Level 5 placement, for instance, for 4 sex offenders. There are other pools of money we can go back 5 in and apply for, and we do. Jesse is very good about staying 6 on top of that and going after other state money as they make 7 it available. To say that we're only going to get the 117 8 plus the 16,000 is not a totally correct statement, because 9 we're going to try like heck to go after the other pools and 10 compete with the other departments in the state. Jesse's been 11 very good at finagling some money, and we hope that that will 12 continue. We never know. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But, in answer to your question, 14 Commissioner, 250 may not be enough, because even if we get 15 additional moneys, that may still not be enough for the 16 postadjudication long-term. We'll just have to see. 17 MR. DAVIS: With the 170 we're at right now, we're 18 basically -- our detention budget is shot. I'll be back in 19 front of this Court very soon. 20 MR. STANTON: One of the things that -- with the 21 whole T.Y.C. problem is what it's going to cost, and it's bad 22 for Jason, bad for probation departments; it's good for 23 detention centers, is the fact that it takes longer for 24 probation departments to place kids in residential facilities 25 than it does in T.Y.C. So, that means kids are going to be 8-1-07 bwk 169 1 spending a longer time in detention, which is good for me, bad 2 for probation departments, because they're going to have to 3 spend more money holding the kids, trying to get them in these 4 residential facilities, whereas they could before send them to 5 T.Y.C. Now they're going to be stuck holding them in 6 detention, not knowing what to do with them, so that's going 7 to cause an inflation in those numbers also. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did I hear you say that you 9 could interchange the moneys? You could use state money into 10 this pot, or you could use our money over into the state side? 11 MR. DAVIS: We do, and traditionally what I do is 12 blow their money first. I try to spend every dime of the 13 state money before I touch ours. And we count on the secure 14 placement. I've got two state line items, basically, and then 15 a couple of other pools that we can go into. We try to get 16 all of that spent before we touch our county funds. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 18 MR. DAVIS: You're welcome. 19 MR. TROLINGER: And speaking of that, the I.T. entry 20 for 10-570 can be zeroed out from the $4,500. That can be 21 zeroed for the Juvenile Probation budget. Jason's found 22 some -- federal source? 23 MR. DAVIS: Our IV-E, Judge. We're going to use -- 24 we're not going to do it at one time, but we're trying to 25 slowly integrate new computers, maybe one a month, one every 8-1-07 bwk 170 1 other month, something like that, and use federal funds for 2 that. Federal funds will not allow us to detain children. We 3 can't pay for locking them up, we can't pay for handcuffs, we 4 can't pay for a car we transport them in. There's certain 5 things we can spend this federal money on, and one of them is 6 computers, so we're trying to phase into that as well. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, Mr. Trolinger will take 8 4,550 off this budget? 9 MR. DAVIS: I didn't see that in my budget, no. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It's -- 11 MR. DAVIS: Mr. Trolinger put it together. If it 12 was there, I didn't -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's there, because I put it -- I 14 put it in as I.T.-recommended. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, that's correct. Remove $4,542. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Under 569, it's still 17 I.T.-recommended. We're just going to figure out a way that 18 we don't have to pay for it. 19 MR. DAVIS: That would be the idea, yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's good. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kevin, to-date, you're about 22 -- outside billings into your facility are about $100,000 23 to-date? Outside billings? 24 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. Yeah -- yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8-1-07 bwk 171 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And they are growing, are they not? 2 Little by little? 3 MR. STANTON: Oh, yes, sir. Yeah, we've got 4 contracts now with -- as you know, we got Burnet County and 5 some of the other counties, Uvalde and Burnet -- Bandera, I 6 mean. Burnet and Uvalde, I guess, are our biggest 7 contributors besides Kerr County. But Burnet -- this is the 8 first year we've actually got all of Burnet's kids, and they 9 seem to lock up quite a few kids. So -- and it -- not as many 10 as Kerr County, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not quite. 12 MR. STANTON: Not quite. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're working on it. 14 MR. STANTON: -- they're working on it, yeah. And 15 every one of these guys I've talked to, the chiefs at the 16 other counties have said, you know, it's going to continue to 17 increase, just because of the fact that juvenile crime is on 18 an upswing again. Plus the fact that with the T.Y.C. 19 problems, they're going to be having to secure more kids. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have either of you heard 22 when T.Y.C.'s going to release the contracts to some of these 23 vendors? 24 MR. STANTON: No, sir, I haven't. 25 MR. DAVIS: No. 8-1-07 bwk 172 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MR. DAVIS: They're pretty hush-hush about that 3 right now. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Not even any plausible rumors flying 5 around? 6 MR. DAVIS: No, sir. Not even from the probation 7 people, no one. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Play it close to the vest, 9 don't they? 10 MR. DAVIS: I think right now they've got the reins 11 pulled pretty tight on them. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll know when the phone 13 rings. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more to go into there? Let's 15 move on to Environmental Health. Where's that? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 22, maybe. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 22. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 23? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 22. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 22. 22 MS. HULETT: We have had some personnel changes, so 23 some of these numbers have changed since it was submitted, so 24 I thought maybe we might want to go over those. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We don't need the roll-ups; 8-1-07 bwk 173 1 just need the -- the personnel, 101 through 105. 2 MS. HULETT: 105 is 45,495. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 45,495? 4 MS. HULETT: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HULETT: Which affected the FICA, 201, which is 7 11,554 -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we don't need the roll-ups. 9 They can calculate it. What about 104? 10 MS. HULETT: That has not changed. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any change in 103? 12 MS. HULETT: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What are we doing -- doing anything 14 with 101? 15 MS. HULETT: I was told not to put anything in 16 there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. HULETT: So, I'm interim, and mine is reported 19 under Designated Representative. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. HULETT: Under 104. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're saying that you're not 23 putting anything in Code Enforcement? 24 MS. HULETT: No, 103 is Code Enforcement. We're 25 talking 101. 8-1-07 bwk 174 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, but I wanted to go 2 back to 103. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 38,906. 4 MS. HULETT: 38,906. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought I heard you saying 6 you weren't putting anything in there. 7 MS. HULETT: No, under 101, the manager. I'm 8 interim manager, and I'm -- my salary's reported in 104. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Capital outlay -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let's stay there just 11 for a second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On this manager issue, are we 14 going to remain with an interim manager, or are we going to 15 hire a manager? Or -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe we're going to 17 designate a full-time manager. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, shouldn't -- if that's 19 the case, shouldn't we put some kind of number in there? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it needs to be put in 21 where it had been. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there is a number from 23 last year. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't tell you, Bruce, to 25 be honest. 8-1-07 bwk 175 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Current budget's 38,566. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There it is, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 38,566. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the projected year-end is 5 42, and we don't even have a person. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why is that? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have no clue. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not -- there's not even 9 anybody in the slot. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not 4,000 with nobody in 11 the job? That's great. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Judge, you want to put 13 that 38,566 over there? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, then that's going to 15 affect 104, because effectively, one of them -- in 104, one of 16 the allotted positions under the position schedule is -- 17 unless we increase the number of positions in that office. 18 Now, that, of course, brings about a whole 'nother issue. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, actually, what we've 20 done is we've hired Code Enforcement full-time. We put him on 21 a part-time until the first of the year. We feel like that 22 that position ought to be funded at full-time. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that in here? 24 MS. HULETT: That's reflected in 130, yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we put a manager's salary in, 8-1-07 bwk 176 1 we won't be bringing on another person into the budget. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right, 'cause we had 4 one leave. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. But the 6 acting is already covered in 104. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Provided for in 104. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause that's where she is 12 now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause we have two Designated 15 Representatives down there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we leave the manager 17 slot open right now, and then -- I don't know Commissioner 18 Oehler's feelings, but sometime in the next month, 19 Commissioners Court will decide what we're going to do about 20 that, and then the money will be shifted into final phase. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will say it will be done at 22 the next Commissioners Court meeting in two weeks. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I meant. I 25 didn't mean today, we have to put something in there, but at 8-1-07 bwk 177 1 some point. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For budgeting purposes, there 4 should be a -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we don't want to have 6 zero in there. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't want to have zero in 8 there at all. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, capital outlay, I notice 10 you've got plugged in 2,166. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I.T. recommended is 32. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 3,275, according -- does your 13 2,166 -- is that -- is that inclusive of any of the I.T. 14 recommendations? 15 MS. HULETT: That is for the computer, I believe. 16 I think that was broken down between hardware and software, is 17 what we had that broken down between, 'cause that was the only 18 expenditures that we had, right? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got a software number -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: The only capital outlay money you 21 have is for computers? 22 MS. HULETT: Yes. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And what we need to do is substitute 25 the 3,275 for the 2,166, then. 8-1-07 bwk 178 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the 11 -- and the 1,110 2 under software. She split it out into two numbers. If you 3 add those two together, you end up with 3,275. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. HULETT: Yes. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, very good. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty easy to follow. 8 MS. HULETT: Okay, good. So that one's okay? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the administration, 11 recommended is 3,275. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, 2,166. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 2,166, because you have to add 15 that -- two lines above that is software, and that's where you 16 get the 3,275. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see what you're saying. 18 MR. TROLINGER: It would simplify things if it was 19 all under 569. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, you want to show -- 21 instead of 1,110, show zero, and then instead of 2,166, we'll 22 show 3,275. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-1-07 bwk 179 1 MR. TROLINGER: And that is for three new computers, 2 and that's all correct? 3 MS. HULETT: Yes. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Did we ask them if they wanted a 6 computer? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. We're in full agreement. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only Mr. Odom so far says he 10 doesn't want one. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I declined the first year. I 12 made the request and denied my own request. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I still decline. 14 MS. HULETT: And we're hoping to use one of the 15 computers that we're replacing to use for our surveillance 16 equipment, 'cause we needed a computer dedicated to that, so 17 one that we're replacing we're going to be using for that 18 purpose. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: But that'll stay in-house? 20 MS. HULETT: It's in-house, yes, sir. Stay in our 21 department. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With respect to any of the 23 other entries between the personnel at the top and the capital 24 outlay at the bottom, any questions, concerns, comments, 25 thoughts? 8-1-07 bwk 180 1 MR. TROLINGER: Telephone line. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only two that you changed. 3 MS. HULETT: I think we've submitted that request to 4 y'all already about possibly getting a telephone line for our 5 office for our Code Enforcement people. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You did, but you haven't 7 proposed a solution, since the system's maxed out. 8 MS. HULETT: Oh. Well, we were told that maybe 9 y'all might need to talk to Mindy about that; that there might 10 be -- you know, that she may offer a solution for that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She has an actual line? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, she's searching for one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think she is, because she's 14 paying extra for her own fax line as a separate -- separate 15 line coming in, if I'm not mistaken, isn't she? Yeah, she may 16 be in as big or bigger bind than you are. But with that -- 17 with that one item, that's all you've got for us? 18 MS. HULETT: That's all. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got one more question, the 20 site cleanup. 21 MS. HULETT: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me what that is again. 23 MS. HULETT: That is for solid waste, in the event 24 that we have to go in and try to clean up a site ourselves. 25 That was what that money's dedicated for. We hope next year, 8-1-07 bwk 181 1 with the addition of the full-time person, that we will be 2 able to be more aggressive in that area. And this year, we've 3 kind of robbed that account for training, but -- since we had 4 some personnel changes, we needed to do that, but we hope next 5 year that -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By "be more aggressive," you 7 mean up front to get those people to clean their own place up? 8 Or is that what you mean? 9 MS. HULETT: Well, the hope is that they clean their 10 place up, but in the event that they don't, then we want money 11 set aside so we can do what we need to do to have it cleaned 12 up. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was a small decrease 14 there, is the reason I'm asking. 15 MS. HULETT: I think it's the same as it was last 16 year. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, ma'am. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In that context, we have 19 never got a final report from the gentleman who occupied the 20 manager spot before you were into it about his great cleanup 21 scheme that he had sent out letters to in various places -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and so forth and so on. 24 He did one in Kerrville South, and may have given us a final. 25 He did one in Center Point. I never saw a final report on -- 8-1-07 bwk 182 1 or progress report on that. 2 MS. HULETT: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, are these efforts still 4 ongoing? Are they stopped? 5 MS. HULETT: Well, they're -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Finished? 7 MS. HULETT: We're in the process of trying to take 8 care of the backlog right now that we reported on in July -- 9 excuse me, on June 11th. That is an ongoing process right now 10 that Mr. Garcia is actively involved with. Right now, we are 11 spending a lot of our time just trying to get those caseloads 12 entered into the computer, and we're also having a lot of 13 active cases right now that they're working on as well. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you speaking to solid 15 waste or O.S.S.F.? 16 MS. HULETT: I'm speaking to solid waste. We are 17 also using them to -- Mr. Garcia to assist us with septic 18 complaints, though. We've had a lot of them since the rain. 19 There's been a lot of surfacing septics out there, so we've 20 been using his assistance in that area, too. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 22 MS. TREVINO: I was just going to tell Commissioner 23 Williams I can get him a report on that Center Point -- finish 24 that out for the Solid Waste. I can get him a report on that. 25 And we're seeing new cases there, of course. Still working 8-1-07 bwk 183 1 with a lot of those in that area. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's music to his ears. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to see that, Julie. 4 Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me inquire about this site 6 cleanup. Are there some federal/state moneys that are 7 available if we expend our funds doing the cleanup, that we 8 can apply for reimbursement, either state or federal? 9 MS. HULETT: I'm going to have to check into that. 10 Mr. Garcia and Mr. North are really more versed in that area 11 than myself, but we can certainly, you know, look into that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You need to check with 13 AACOG, and -- 14 MS. HULETT: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- there are funds -- they 16 have -- they dole out $800,000 to $900,000 a year in various 17 grants for all sorts of things like this. 18 MS. HULETT: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I need to look into it for 20 the next grant round. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is she working off the same 22 sheet that we are, with your recommendations? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. I think what she said 24 was her request was the same as last year's budget. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Her request was. 8-1-07 bwk 184 1 MS. HULETT: Yes. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what my -- what my 3 recommendation was was based upon projected year-end. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, any other questions on this one? 6 Okay, thank you. 7 MS. HULETT: Okay, thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Animal Control. 9 That's under that same heading, same tab. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. You have a -- like, a 13 14 percent increase in the manager's salary. 14 MS. ROMAN: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hyde, can you come up with a 16 report on all department heads as to -- going back, like, 17 three or four years, their salaries? Because it seems, you 18 know, it's much easier for me to look at all the department 19 heads differently. We had a little bit of this discussion, I 20 think, at our last Commissioners Court, or last -- one of our 21 other workshops about -- we have an irregular pattern of how 22 we have addressed department heads' salaries. 23 MS. HYDE: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we look at them all on a 25 spreadsheet format, you know, going back however many years 8-1-07 bwk 185 1 you can do reasonably, then we get an idea that we're not 2 skipping some and giving an increase more regularly, or -- 3 MS. HYDE: You want it for next Commissioners Court? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before we end up -- I mean, we 5 need to start finalizing the budget, so either time this 6 month. I think we have time. I think those aren't going to 7 be a huge ticket item to affect the budget, but I think it 8 would be -- from a fairness standpoint, we ought to really 9 look at them all at one time. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What else you got in the personnel? 11 MS. ROMAN: There's two changes. On 642-104, Animal 12 Control Officer, and I was requesting an additional kennel 13 worker on 106. I had originally -- right now, I currently 14 have one kennel worker. What I turned in to y'all, I was 15 requesting two. I am wanting to request just one and a half, 16 one full-time employee and one part-time employee, which would 17 change those numbers from 42,838 to 30,694. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a total of one and a 19 half? 20 MS. ROMAN: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have been able to get 22 community service to give us some assistance. That's why 23 she's able to do that. 24 MS. ROMAN: Correct. So I'm eliminating my 25 part-time. I'm eliminating one part-time, 642-108. That 8-1-07 bwk 186 1 position will be eliminated. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Which other one do you want to 3 change? 4 MS. ROMAN: 104. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What do you want to do? 6 MS. ROMAN: We'll be changing from 48,468 to 52,244. 7 I have hired an experienced animal control officer; as y'all 8 know, Marc Allen is back, so I'd like to be able to -- to 9 increase -- increase his salary. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So you're proposing an 11 increase. You hired him within the budget that you currently 12 have? 13 MS. ROMAN: Yes. Yes, and he would be the assistant 14 rabies control authority. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Based on his experience -- 16 MS. ROMAN: Based on his experience. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- and everything. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's good. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know Janie's glad to have 20 him back. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's excellent. 22 MS. ROMAN: Like I said, and that would actually 23 bring it down to -- the difference would be 8,368. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, tell me what you're 25 doing. You're adding a half an animal control officer? 8-1-07 bwk 187 1 MS. ROMAN: One-half kennel worker. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, just a kennel worker. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 106. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And is that -- is 106, then, correct 5 at 42,838? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it changes down to 7 30,694. 8 MS. HYDE: Judge, take the kennel workers down to 9 1.5, 30,694. Increase -- increase the other to 52, so it's a 10 net -- it's a net-net once you do that of negative $8,368. 11 However, comma, we want to use 5,500 of that savings towards 12 an animal control trailer that we don't have at this point. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't got to that point. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's slow down just a little bit. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're way ahead. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You're adding a half of a kennel 17 worker? 18 MS. ROMAN: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, one and a half kennel 20 workers. 21 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. ROMAN: And that total would be 30,694. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, with so you far. Then you're 25 going to add something else? 8-1-07 bwk 188 1 MS. ROMAN: I'm going to leave the animal control 2 officers' positions, but increase one officer's salary due 3 to -- to experience, so that would bring those numbers up from 4 48,468, to 52,244. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got it. 6 MS. ROMAN: So, the difference would be 8,368, 7 negative. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then we're going to use 9 four of that on a trailer. This is exciting stuff. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't gotten to the 11 trailer yet. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Haven't got -- 13 MS. ROMAN: Haven't gotten there yet. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to use the Assistant 15 Animal Control Officer money under 105? 16 MS. ROMAN: Mm-hmm. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to add the increase to 18 that, so you're going to have the same number of bodies there; 19 is that correct? 20 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, are you going to add the 22 additional to 104 or 105? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 104. 24 MS. ROMAN: 104. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Totally? You're going up one 8-1-07 bwk 189 1 employee? 2 MS. ROMAN: No, not necessarily. 3 MS. HYDE: We're coming down a half an employee. 4 MS. ROMAN: Coming down, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's getting rid of a 6 full-time; then she's going to replace the full-time with a 7 part-time. 8 MS. ROMAN: No, I'm not getting rid of a full-time. 9 MS. HYDE: She had a part-timer that was in there 10 for part-time. That's coming out, $3,900. 11 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 12 MS. HYDE: That's gone. And then she had two kennel 13 workers. She's requesting two full-time kennel workers. That 14 was turned in. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: She just told me -- 16 MS. HYDE: And so what she's doing is taking away 17 half of one of those. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want to talk about what 19 she's asking; I want to talk about what she has versus what 20 she's going to want. I don't care about that middle column. 21 MS. ROMAN: Basically, all I'm -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She can't give up someone she 23 never had. 24 MS. ROMAN: Right. I -- in last year's budget, we 25 budgeted for a part-time salary, but that was just a weekend 8-1-07 bwk 190 1 kennel worker, okay. We are no longer doing that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MS. ROMAN: That is zeroed out. So, basically, what 4 I'm requesting is a part-time kennel worker that will work 5 Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 MS. ROMAN: Okay. And they will come in at a 13 -- 8 a 13-1. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's the .5 employee? 10 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Then you'll have one 12 full-time kennel worker? 13 MS. ROMAN: And I currently have one full-time, yes. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then you'll have one assistant 15 animal control officer? 16 MS. ROMAN: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, she'll have two. 18 MS. ROMAN: And -- no, one assistant animal control 19 officer. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One animal control officer. 21 MS. ROMAN: One animal control officer. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then -- 23 MS. ROMAN: And one assistant local rabies control 24 authority, which would fall under animal control officer. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I got you. 8-1-07 bwk 191 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then one manager. 2 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you'll have a total of 4.5 4 employees? 5 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many do you have 7 today? 8 MS. ROMAN: Well, with me, 5.5. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 5.5. And how many do you 10 have today? 11 MS. ROMAN: Five. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're just adding a 13 half. 14 MS. ROMAN: Half employee. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's adding a half an 16 employee, and we've doubled the size of the facility. I think 17 that's pretty good. 18 MS. ROMAN: Now, on capital outlay, I have the -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make sure I got your numbers 20 right. 21 MS. ROMAN: I'm sorry. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 103: 35,976. 23 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 104: 32,244. 25 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 8-1-07 bwk 192 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 105: 22,504. 2 MS. ROMAN: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And 106: 30,694. 4 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And nothing under part-time. 6 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- going back to 103, 8 that's kind of a -- to be decided. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah. I'm talking about 10 requests based upon what she just told us. Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MS. ROMAN: We're clear on that? Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, let me ask this question. You 14 just brought somebody on board. 15 MS. ROMAN: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And you bought them on board on 17 something within your budget. 18 MS. ROMAN: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: But at some -- at some step other 20 than entry level, correct? 21 MS. ROMAN: Well, I brought him in at -- yes. Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not a Step 1. It's Grade 23 something, step more than one. 24 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Does that employee that you 8-1-07 bwk 193 1 brought on board clearly understand that that position, at 2 that step, is -- in the future beyond October 1, is subject to 3 budget approval? 4 MS. ROMAN: Correct, yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. ROMAN: Yes. However, like I said, due to his 7 experience, his certifications, everything, I -- he's a huge 8 asset to my department, and I think it would only be right to 9 increase his salary. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand where you're 11 coming from, but we start off with a rule that a new employee 12 comes on at Step 1. 13 MS. ROMAN: Right. Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which is what we did, I 16 believe. 17 MS. ROMAN: Yes. That was -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was the way to get him on 19 board, because she had an employee that quit. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- but, I mean, 21 Janie came to the Court, as many people have, and asked for us 22 to set that at a higher level. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is appropriate. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That has not yet happened. 8-1-07 bwk 194 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on his experience and 3 whatever, whatever. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, done at the appropriate 6 time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You're looking at next year, and 8 you're operating within your current year's budget, but next 9 year's a brand-new ball game. 10 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, now I'm square. I'm ready 13 to go to capital outlay with you. 14 MS. ROMAN: Okay. We have 2,180 for a -- John, help 15 me out here -- for a new computer. 16 MR. TROLINGER: One new computer, which needs to be 17 in the capital outlay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. TROLINGER: What we're going to call a webcam -- 20 or three webcams, excuse me. And DSL or high-speed internet 21 access to connect them to the county network to allow the 22 financial and so forth that -- the only thing to note here is 23 that that -- that $60 at 12 months for $720 is a recurring 24 cost, so that -- that actually should be listed as -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Telephone? 8-1-07 bwk 195 1 MR. TROLINGER: -- telephone. 2 MS. ROMAN: Telephone, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, telephone goes up to 3,800? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 38? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like a lot. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: How many phones lines you got out 8 there? 9 MS. ROMAN: Two -- two and then the fax. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cell phones. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You got a trainload of cell phones, 12 don't you? 13 MS. ROMAN: We have three cell phones. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Small train. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Three county cell phones? 17 MS. ROMAN: Yeah, three county cell phones. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? Cell phone's 3,800? 19 MS. ROMAN: Pardon me? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Total telephone is 3,800. 21 MS. ROMAN: 3,800. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully we can bring that down if 23 we get us a master contract. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hopefully. Where's -- where's 25 this trailer we've been hearing so much about? 8-1-07 bwk 196 1 MS. ROMAN: Okay. And then we are adding $5,500 to 2 capital outlay for a stock trailer. We're -- we're going to 3 be doing the estrays for the Sheriff's Department, and if 4 we're going to do this, I -- I have to have a trailer. The 5 trailer that we currently have was the trailer that the city 6 of Kerrville once had. It's not a covered stock trailer; it's 7 a small trailer. It's very small. Not long ago, I was on a 8 call and had to haul -- you know, do three different loads, so 9 it's extremely important that we have a new trailer. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What was the Sheriff using? 11 MS. ROMAN: They, I believe, years ago had a 12 contract with, I believe, Brad. And, Brad, I believe you were 13 using your personal trailer? 14 MR. ALFORD: We did on some. We contracted a lot of 15 it out. If it was something quick and easy, I ran home and 16 got the trailer and picked it up. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got a trailer that's suitable? 18 MR. ALFORD: Not any more, no, sir, not for you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Talk to you about leasing it. 20 MR. ALFORD: My personal trailer. Marc Allen used 21 to use his personal trailer. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Does he still have one? 23 MR. ALFORD: Say no. Say no. 24 MS. HYDE: Say no. 25 MS. ROMAN: No. No. I know that I'm sitting here 8-1-07 bwk 197 1 going, "No." 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There was an occasion to have 3 a little cow roundup one Friday afternoon, and I had to go 4 borrow a trailer from a friend, because the County doesn't 5 have one at all. 6 MS. ROMAN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And, you know, then I had to 8 take it back, and I had to wash it out too. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Did anybody -- did anybody make a 10 video of that? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It wouldn't have been that 12 interesting, 'cause nobody got hurt. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. I thought maybe we could sell it 14 and generate a little revenue from it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think so. It was 16 pretty -- pretty uneventful. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a 16-foot trailer, what 18 you're looking for? 19 MS. ROMAN: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes the capital outlay 22 7,680. 23 MS. ROMAN: Correct. 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is it? 8-1-07 bwk 198 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 76. 2 MS. ROMAN: 7,680. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Total. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not the trailer. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, on top of the 2,180 you 6 already got. 7 MS. ROMAN: That's for the computer and the -- 8 MS. HARGIS: No, 'cause you don't want to add 2,180; 9 you want to add 720 less than that. 10 MS. ROMAN: Oh, that's right. Minus 720, that went 11 into the telephone. 12 MS. HARGIS: Should be 6,960. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Subtract out 700 even. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Auditor, how much did 15 you say? 16 MS. HARGIS: 6,960. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 69 what? 18 MS. HARGIS: 60. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 6,960. We're gaining on it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, how much was the 21 trailer? 22 MS. ROMAN: 55. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 5,500 I think. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And we don't need to have anything in 8-1-07 bwk 199 1 there for a part-time wrangler because of your skills, 2 correct? 3 MS. ROMAN: Mine and Marc's. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm talking about. 5 MS. ROMAN: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a note the Judge has here 7 about the city stuff, and I concur with his comment about 8 administrative costs. What's the breakdown between city and 9 county, in your opinion? 10 MS. ROMAN: I'm working on it now, and I'll have 11 those numbers to Bruce tomorrow. I do have to say that the 12 numbers in the city have gone down some. I'd say they're 13 probably about 50/50 instead of 60/40. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I -- my thought was. 15 I mean, I thought it would probably be a little bit high on 16 the 60/40, but we need 50/50. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may have to have that 18 number when we have our joint meeting. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly -- 20 MS. ROMAN: That's why I'm going to have it to him 21 tomorrow. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You will have a copy of it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everybody sitting here. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what is it the City's 8-1-07 bwk 200 1 asking us to do? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They want to adjust it to what 3 the actual use is, but I'm not sure -- I thought they came out 4 with 60/40 the other direction. 5 MS. ROMAN: It used to be 60/40 the other direction. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But what they've done, there are some 8 of those animals that you didn't determine origin, and you 9 take those out, and then they've got some formula by which 10 they carved up those numbers which tends to compound it going 11 the other direction, and then they've suggested taking out the 12 -- the administrative costs. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which are not in there anyway. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no. We -- we probably need -- 15 I would say, what, a third of Commissioner Oehler's time 16 probably needs to be allocated over there, and the County 17 Attorney's -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some, yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, if we're going to play that 20 game, allocating out administrative costs, we can. There's a 21 lot of things we need to do. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also, I was just made 23 aware of -- I haven't gotten a phone call, but I encouraged 24 someone to call you, Judge. The -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 8-1-07 bwk 201 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this is okay. Ingram 2 animal control officer was killed in a car wreck. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they are going to need to 5 maybe contract with us to do that service. And so I will see 6 that Mr. -- that Mr. Zachary calls the Judge and, you know, 7 makes a request for us to do that. And maybe we can -- we're 8 right at the right time of year, but we could handle that. 9 And they -- you know, at budget time, they -- if they decide 10 to do that with us, he could allocate the funds to the county 11 rather than to that control officer job. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a feel for what their 13 numbers are? 14 MS. ROMAN: I know that at the moment, they're 15 paying us -- I believe it's $350 a month for approximately -- 16 isn't it $350 a month? And for -- I believe the contract says 17 no more than 10 animals per month. So, I can tell you now, 18 they don't ever bring in more than 10 animals per month. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's -- 20 MS. ROMAN: But that was also -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that facility. 22 MS. ROMAN: Correct. Correct. That was also 23 because their animal control officer did not do animal control 24 full-time. He was also code enforcement, you know, street 25 maintenance, all of that. So, I couldn't tell you right off 8-1-07 bwk 202 1 -- right offhand, but I know it's not -- it hasn't been a 2 whole lot, but that's also because it wasn't really being 3 enforced due to the lack of time he had. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Incidentally, the Animal 6 Control new facility is -- the drains that we had the problem 7 with because of the construction -- original construction are 8 being fixed as we speak. Hopefully they will be in compliance 9 whenever it gets through this time. 10 MS. ROMAN: He also donated the self-watering 11 system, so they're installing that as we speak as well. So 12 that will help a great deal. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a flush mechanism for the 14 drains? 15 MS. ROMAN: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Or are you talking about the potable 17 water? 18 MS. ROMAN: Potable water. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. ROMAN: For the dogs. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Been a lot of changes out 23 there this last six, seven months. 24 MS. ROMAN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How's the adoption rate? 8-1-07 bwk 203 1 MS. ROMAN: It's slowed down a little bit, but it's 2 slowed down throughout the city. I mean, Freeman-Fritts, 3 Humane Society, everyone's slowed down. It usually does this 4 time of year. People are on vacation; you know, they have 5 company, you know, people visiting or whatever. Over the 6 summer, it normally slows down, so -- but we're still -- it's 7 still higher than it ever had been before, so we're doing 8 good. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Animal Control and Brad Alford have 10 done a great job promoting via the county web site. 11 MS. ROMAN: Yeah. 12 MR. TROLINGER: And we're going to increase that 13 with the capital outlay computers. 14 MS. ROMAN: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The rain, I think, has 16 factored into that adoption rate. It rains so much every day, 17 nobody wants to go get a wet dog or cat out of Animal Control 18 and take it home with them. (Laughter.) Not that they get 19 rained on. 20 MS. ROMAN: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to the Extension Service, 22 under Tab 24. 23 MR. WALSTON: Alyce's position is included on there, 24 so I just brought you what I had. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't bring us what you didn't 8-1-07 bwk 204 1 have? 2 MR. WALSTON: I can't bring you what I don't have. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Refresh my recollection on why 5 we need to do this travel separate. 6 MR. WALSTON: Mainly, it simplifies and prevents 7 problems with our recordkeeping with College Station. And any 8 time we go to reporting to them what our travel -- any of our 9 salary, we've got to have a certain -- we've got to have 10 travel. And when it was tied up in salary, there was nothing 11 saying exactly how much travel was. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's an Aggie problem. 13 MR. WALSTON: I'm preventing problems that I've been 14 running into year after year after year. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Looking at what you just gave us, 16 Mr. Walston, looking across the top, it shows a salary item 17 and a travel item, -- 18 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- present and proposed, for 20 yourself, the F.C.S. and 4-H, and then when we come down to 21 the miscellaneous expenses, we've got two more travel items, a 22 stock show and a reimbursed. Reimbursed -- 23 MR. WALSTON: The reimbursed is the same as the -- 24 as for the 4-H Program Assistant. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that -- 8-1-07 bwk 205 1 MR. WALSTON: So, you don't -- we can take it out of 2 miscellaneous. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly where I was going. 4 MR. WALSTON: I didn't catch that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: But down at the bottom, it's proposed 6 to be increasing 43 to 48. Up top -- 7 MR. WALSTON: Should be 43 to 48. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it shows 43 to 43. 9 MR. WALSTON: It should be 48. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're saying is we need to 11 "X" it out up at the top; is that correct? 12 MR. WALSTON: Whichever you like. Take it either 13 way. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If you can get it? 15 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably, to keep them all the 17 same, leave it at the top and take out the reimbursed travel 18 line item. 19 MR. WALSTON: That's what I did on mine, I just took 20 it out. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But at the top, you want to change it 22 to 48? 23 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want to. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well I'm speaking to him. 8-1-07 bwk 206 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why is stock show travel 2 listed separately from other travel that you have? 3 MR. WALSTON: The stock show travel is -- is travel 4 that I use strictly for going to stock shows and as a 5 reimbursed travel. The other travel comes in as a monthly. 6 You know, and that is probably why the 4-H Program Assistant 7 was listed down underneath. It is reimbursed. So, the 8 program assistant travel and stock show travel is all 9 reimbursed travel. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we should leave it down at 11 the bottom, and we should probably call that Reimbursed 4-H? 12 MR. WALSTON: That'd be fine. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that identifies why we have 14 that? Take it out at the top. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, is the total travel 16 for you, for example, is that the total of the 55 up on top 17 and the 6,000 down below? 18 MR. WALSTON: The reimbursed travel -- I mean the 19 stock show travel and the county -- and the regular travel, 20 55. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, your travel line item 22 total is 11,005, proposed? 23 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. He drives a lot, I 25 guess. 8-1-07 bwk 207 1 MR. WALSTON: I'll let you see my odometer on my 2 pickup. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is all of that out-of-county travel? 4 MR. WALSTON: No. The -- the stock show travel is, 5 and that's when I'm going out, helping kids buy projects, 6 going to stock shows; that's reimbursed. The county travel 7 that I do driving around in town, regular travel, that's the 8 5,500. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's a travel allowance, 10 basically? 11 MR. WALSTON: That's a travel allowance that comes 12 in monthly. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We pay it, not A & M? 14 MR. WALSTON: No. Y'all pay, yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But when you leave the house in the 16 morning, conceivably, the odometer starts ticking? 17 MR. WALSTON: No. When I get -- when I leave here 18 in the morning -- when I reach the office basically is when I 19 start keeping up with it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you keep a log, though, when 21 you're -- I mean, for that -- for your allowance portion, you 22 don't keep a log, or do you keep a log? 23 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. It's -- I -- it's part of my 24 Commissioners Court report that we turn in, is a travel 25 report, and it's daily, whether it's in-county or 8-1-07 bwk 208 1 out-of-county. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why it shows 2, 3, 7 -- small 3 mileage. 4 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. There's a lot of the small 5 mileages that are local, but then, when I have to go to Uvalde 6 or have to go out of county, that's where I use the reimbursed 7 travel, the stock show travel. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. WALSTON: And I'm -- last year, I -- the way the 10 stock shows are laying out now, we've got kids going to 11 Houston, and they're there for three weeks, or we're in San 12 Antonio for two weeks. It costs just about the same to drive 13 back and forth as it does to stay there, so I'm going to 14 probably have to start cutting back somewhere and not get to 15 be there every day that I have kids there, because I've been 16 out of that -- the stock show travel since June. And we're in 17 the midst of trying to purchase projects and everything else, 18 so that makes it a little tight. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Under your personnel up here, you're 20 increasing one secretary from 23,644 to 25,641. Is that -- 21 does that fall in line with the longevity increase that's due? 22 MR. WALSTON: That's including the longevity. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's also -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's all it is, a longevity? 25 MR. WALSTON: No. No, it's -- it's an increase from 8-1-07 bwk 209 1 a 14-3 to a 15-4. She's gone from a regular secretary to a 2 lead secretary with more responsibility. I gave the job 3 description to Eva, and we sat down and -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're listing them here -- 6 listing that individual here as an office manager. 7 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Change in job responsibility? 10 MR. WALSTON: She won't be necessarily supervising 11 or evaluating, but she'll be the lead secretary. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a 14-3 to a 15-4? 13 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 14 MS. HYDE: That includes her longevity. 15 MR. WALSTON: That's including longevity. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, essentially, what you did 17 was you went one grade up, and then the longevity. When you 18 add that to it, it goes to -- okay. Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that working out -- the 20 reorganization out there working out all right? 21 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a matter 22 of doing some training and some time, but it's working good. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: In your management structure, how do 25 the clerical -- the office help fall in relation to the 4-H 8-1-07 bwk 210 1 Program Coordinator? 2 MR. WALSTON: Right now, the way it's set up is, 3 Jamie is responsible for the 4-H and ag, and Alyce is 4 responsible for the F.C.S and helping fill in as far as 5 whatever we need as far as mail-outs and helping cover phone 6 calls so Jamie can get things done. So, she's more of the 7 receptionist, and also doing the F.C.S., whereas Jamie is able 8 to get some other things done and take care of the 4-H 9 primarily, as far as the clerical part of it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if -- see if my 11 understanding is correct. So, essentially, you have two 12 different structure tracks; one's ag, one's F.C.S. Now, 13 overall, you're in charge. 14 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And then you've got two different 16 tracks that feed off of that. One's an ag track, one's an 17 F.C.S. track. You've got your agent, F.C.S. Under that agent 18 is a -- primarily, the responsibility would be the clerical 19 support for that individual. Over here on the ag side, 20 directly under you, is the 4-H -- 21 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Coordinator, and then you've got 23 the clerical individual that's directly responsible for ag and 24 4-H. 25 MR. WALSTON: Ag and 4-H. 8-1-07 bwk 211 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So you've got a dual track there. 2 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. WALSTON: And there's -- I mean, it's not 5 cut-and-dried. I mean, they work together, and -- but 6 primarily, that's the way it's set up. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: For a command structure, that's the 8 way it works. 9 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any questions? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I wanted to point 12 out, though, that Mr. Walston recently was -- the Sheep and 13 Goat Raisers Association named him the outstanding County 14 Agent. Is that in the state? 15 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was in the county. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sheep and goat -- he's 18 the best one. Best one we have. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if you look at the Sheep 21 and Goat Raisers Association, it's basically San Angelo and 22 some west Texas stuff; it's not really -- I mean, you don't 23 find a lot of sheep and goats up in Dallas. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not too much. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't find many in South 8-1-07 bwk 212 1 Texas, either. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Congratulations. 3 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What a great honor. 5 MR. WALSTON: And I also got with John on our outlay 6 on our computers, and he had that -- he already had that set 7 up, and I think we're on target for getting -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That number that I've -- when 9 you and I talked about it, and I indicated to you that was 10 subject to I.T. review. 11 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's needed? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Looks like we've got the standard 14 Kerr County computer, and an additional for the A & M 15 software; is that right? 16 MR. WALSTON: What we're looking at is, we can -- we 17 can purchase -- it's a cost share program, which the County 18 purchases half -- half of it, and then A & M furnishes the 19 other half. And, in reality, we're getting a computer and 20 software. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 22 MR. WALSTON: So, it'll still be a Texas A & M 23 computer with software on it that we're able to use. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Sounds wonderful. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does that make it work 8-1-07 bwk 213 1 differently 'cause it's an A & M computer? 2 MR. WALSTON: No, it makes us get about -- gets us a 3 $750 computer for -- you know. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, do we need this $1,000 5 allocated here, I guess, is my question. If A & M's going to 6 furnish that? 7 MR. WALSTON: Well, they're not furnishing -- we're 8 paying for it. They're paying for the other half. It's a 9 cost share. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pay half. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We pay half, they pay half, and it's 12 their computer? That sounds like your ambulance, Buster. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's an Aggie theory. 14 Evidently, it works. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a good deal at all. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly like my 17 ambulance deal. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You ever get a ride in that 19 ambulance? 20 (Commissioner Baldwin shook his head.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You reckon City of Kerrville got the 22 idea from them, or vice-versa? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got a traitor among us. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City of Kerrville's head guy 8-1-07 bwk 214 1 is an Aggie. Go figure. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty nice. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we pay half -- we pay $1,000 for 4 a half of a computer which costs us $850, and A & M owns it? 5 Is that the deal? 6 MR. WALSTON: Well, I don't know what it's going to 7 cost us. It's been costing us about seven and a half, what 8 it's been costing. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we'll say it's a $750 computer 10 that we're going to pay 1,000 for half of it, and then A & M 11 owns it. 12 MR. WALSTON: No, you'll pay whatever it costs, the 13 750 or 1,000. 14 MS. HYDE: What a deal. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you use it all the time, 16 or just on certain days of the week? 17 MR. WALSTON: Unfortunately, we use it every day. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm not going to understand 19 that one; I can figure that out. Anything else? 20 MR. WALSTON: Have to go to A & M to understand. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I can't get unstuck from that sticky 22 black bottom down there. 23 MR. WALSTON: I understand. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Walston. 25 MR. WALSTON: All-righty. I -- just to let y'all 8-1-07 bwk 215 1 know, we'll probably try to get y'all another report as far as 2 here at the next meeting, but to give you a report on 4-H 3 numbers, we're looking at 408 4-H enrollees, which is the most 4 we've had, Laurinda says, in the past 17 years. So, we've got 5 a little over 1,600 total kids contacted, and through the 4-H 6 program, which is about 23 percent of the available -- the 7 kids in the county. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: In the demographic range? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 10 MR. WALSTON: So, we've had a good year. Had kids 11 get a lot of scholarship money that y'all have seen. This has 12 been a really good year for us. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the only observation I can make 14 about that, Roy, is that, looking at my detention days in the 15 Juvenile Detention Facility, you need to get more kids in your 16 4-H program. 17 MR. WALSTON: We'll take all that we can get. I 18 know. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're trying to channel you some. 20 MR. WALSTON: We're trying to get there. Thank 21 y'all. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, County-sponsored, next 23 one. 25, I guess it is. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 26. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 26, excuse me. Not a whole lot of 8-1-07 bwk 216 1 change in what I've done there. I don't think there's any 2 increase in expenditures. I did reallocate some CASA money to 3 Big Brother/Big Sister. My rationale for doing that is that 4 CASA has discontinued service to our courts, with the 5 exception of -- of Texas Department of Human Resources -- 6 whatever name they're using this week -- that's dealing with 7 children's services and whatnot, where they terminate kiddoes 8 and all that sort of stuff. I'm drawing a blank on that. My 9 thinking is that if they're going to service that state 10 agency, the state agency ought to be paying them for whatever 11 home study or other -- other work that they're doing for them, 12 so I've zeroed them out. I have increased the amount, but not 13 by the same amount, to Big Brother/Big Sister. The reason 14 I've done that is that they are picking up a good bit of the 15 slack when it comes to mentoring outside of the school 16 program. The school program -- it's kind of confusing to me. 17 Under the school mentoring programs, they will permit 18 mentoring only for that specific time frame that they 19 allocate, and if there's going to be additional mentoring by 20 that same adult with that same child, they disassociate 21 themselves from it. So, what we have happening is that the 22 kids that really need mentors badly, the way we're continuing 23 that -- I say "we," but what's happening is that these kids 24 are getting into the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program, and 25 these same mentors that they have in school are there by 8-1-07 bwk 217 1 becoming Big Brothers/Big Sisters to these children that they 2 have in the school mentoring program. The continuity seems to 3 work well. But I think they're picking up a lot of that 4 slack, so that's the reason I increased them, not by the same 5 proportion. Other than that -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the top line, under Trapper 7 Contract -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it probably needs to be the 10 same as we budgeted this year. The difference there is, 11 Kendall County may never have requested their money, which is 12 their issue, not ours. But I do know that the trapper that 13 we're paying part of his salary, which is Mr. Barnhart, has 14 done an outstanding job in the eastern part of the county, and 15 it's a very -- even if they do request money, it is a great 16 benefit to Kerr County, and we're getting far more than our -- 17 I mean, certainly our money's worth out of -- I don't know; is 18 it 10? Whatever it was, 5,000 or 10,000 we were paying 19 towards his salary. I think it was 10,000. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 10 or 12, I'm thinking, out of the 21 Kendall County -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we paid through interlocal 23 agreement, paid Kendall County a certain amount, and then 24 their trapper covers basically the eastern third of Kerr 25 County. That way we're able to keep Keith Adams out basically 8-1-07 bwk 218 1 in Bruce's area 100 percent, which is a big area, and where he 2 spends his time, and it works very well. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't know what our maximum 4 exposure was under those contracts. I'm hearing from you it's 5 the 31,4. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. I think we paid 7 25 percent of his salary. I'm not sure what adjustments they 8 have made on their salaries. I thought we had it right last 9 year; that's why I say 31,4. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even though the projected 12 year-end looks low. I'll try to check on that, though. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Emergency management. That falls 14 under the EMS -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sure? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think that's where it falls 17 under. It may not fall under anything. It shows that -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the director and 19 things that we pay for? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's a health and 21 emergency -- I'll see if I can find that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw it earlier, but I don't 23 know where it is. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I think -- is it after -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you -- off the top of your 8-1-07 bwk 219 1 head, do you know where the EMS -- 2 MS. HARGIS: This is not your EMS. Your EMS runs a 3 couple hundred -- a hundred-some thousand dollars. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think this is the 5 thing that you and Raymond Holloway do. 6 MS. HARGIS: I think that -- yeah, I think that's 7 what's this is. This is the emergency management training, 8 when -- when we have an emergency. I think that's -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, all I can say is, if 10 that's the case, at least as of -- through March 31st of this 11 year, we haven't done a very good job of it. Or we've done a 12 great job at it, whichever way you want to look at it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Done a great job. Done 14 nothing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: Well, I took all the tests. You can 17 have my plaques, if you want. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the Government Financial 19 Accounting Association or whatever? 20 MS. HARGIS: No, this was -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You ever read Lottie Stinson's column 22 on that? 23 MS. HARGIS: No. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Go back and find it sometime. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on the emergency 8-1-07 bwk 220 1 management thing, I mean, this has been a -- I've tried to 2 bring it up, I think, at our last City/County meeting. I 3 think this all needs to be looked at. I don't think it's been 4 looked at since the Chief was designated this person, last 5 century sometime, and I think it probably needs to be looked 6 at and make sure that the right people are in the right 7 positions. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Jody and I did some work on 9 that just the other day, as a matter of fact, a new roster of 10 current personnel from the various disciplines. And we 11 submitted the new roster of current personnel. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Submitted it to who? 13 MS. GRINSTEAD: The L.E.P.C. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under that thing, the designated 15 -- as I understand, the designated person to make decisions on 16 county roads is the Police Chief in the City of Kerrville, 17 which I think that's one example that I don't think it's 18 accurate. I think that needs to be changed. 'Cause the last 19 time I think I looked into it, it was in '83 when this was 20 done. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, federal law requires 22 you do it every five years, doesn't it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that may be. I think it's 24 been updated, but the original designations that were done way 25 back in '83 don't necessarily make sense now, and I don't 8-1-07 bwk 221 1 know -- I have no idea why they were made the way they were. 2 Maybe that made sense back then. But I think the county road 3 closures and things of that nature should not be under the 4 city chief; it should be under probably the Sheriff, from our 5 standpoint. But, anyway -- anyway, that's a different topic 6 for a different day. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: My suggestion is, let's don't plug in 8 any money for it now, and -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- maybe we won't have to spend any. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds good. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Zero. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Zero. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, fine with me. We've got a 15 Water Development category down here that I -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Zero. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Zero that out? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That money we put in under 19 Professional Services, the small amount that I thought we 20 needed there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The -- the KCAD number that's 22 in there I took from what they had proposed to us at their -- 23 in connection with their budget and their allocation. I had 24 the occasion to be talking to the Chief Appraiser yesterday or 25 the day before, and I told him I had every confidence that we 8-1-07 bwk 222 1 would vote against his budget because of the salary issues not 2 being on parity with other public employees. I didn't get a 3 bobble out of him, which doesn't surprise me, 'cause what we 4 do is of no consequence in that scheme anyway. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't seem to be. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we should lobby the 7 school board members. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Biggest contributor. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because, I mean, they're even 11 getting bigger increases than what they're giving their 12 teachers. That's not right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They do it every year. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Go to the teacher's union. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, that doesn't do 16 any good; all they do is stand up and yell, but that doesn't 17 accomplish anything. You get the board members that approve 18 that contract. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe if they would disapprove 20 it, maybe KCAD would start -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they would disapprove it, I 22 believe it won't pass. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, there's no question but what if 24 the school district disapproves it, it won't pass. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8-1-07 bwk 223 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But if they approve it, it does pass. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. That's why I 3 say we need to lobby those school board members to follow suit 4 with the County in being fair to the rest of the community. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, that may not -- well, it's 6 based on last year's taxes, not the current year's taxes. 7 Their tax rate is coming down substantially this year, so next 8 year they may not have full control over it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you got Ingram on board with 10 you, then you definitely -- K.I.S.D. and Ingram, certainly, 11 together control it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe I can gather up 13 Ingram. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Emergency management. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, the date on this is 7-26-07. 17 That's how diligently this item is being worked upon, and I 18 think Ms. Grinstead needs to be complimented for her timely 19 work on this matter. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did we -- what is it? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a local emergency planning 22 committee membership update form. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: How about that? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's impressive. 8-1-07 bwk 224 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Read 'em and weep. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is this based on some 3 knowledge that you had to do this, or did you just pull this 4 out of the sky? I thought I'd ask. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is -- I think I'm speaking 6 correctly; I don't believe Ron Derrick's in that position at 7 Sid Peterson Hospital any more. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought Ron took a job in San 10 Antonio. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He went to Fredericksburg, 13 didn't he? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a long time ago. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If so, he's done that since July the 16 26th. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was planning on going to work 18 for Methodist Hospital, I believe. Is there -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He might have, I don't know. 20 He was with Peterson last time I was with him. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: As of July 26th, he was with them. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe he didn't take that job in 23 San Antonio as he had mentioned. Better leave him on here, 24 then. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. He hasn't submitted his 8-1-07 bwk 225 1 resignation. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who did this? You? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do you have the Police Chief 5 as opposed to the Sheriff as the law enforcement person? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, Jody did it. 7 (Laughter.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to me that law enforcement 9 should be the Sheriff, who has far broader jurisdiction and 10 authority than the Police Chief. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe you can file an amended 12 report. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Previously, I agree, it was 14 Chuck Dickerson. Just a thought. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See, that's why the Chief of 16 Police is shutting down county roads. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm sure you went off the 18 form of the previous one. But, anyway, that was just -- it's 19 just a -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it needs to be a new 21 designee. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I do all this hard work, and what do 23 I get for it? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Criticism. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Abuse. 8-1-07 bwk 226 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll go to Collections, 2 then. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Wait a 4 minute. I want you to -- I want you to explain. What are we 5 going to do with KCAD? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Vote against it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know, but I'm with 8 Bruce. I think that we need to make some kind of concerted 9 effort to -- I don't know about lobbying them individually, 10 'cause I don't -- I don't know -- I don't know about one or 11 two of them any more. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe they can tell you who 13 the others are. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, wouldn't it be simpler, 15 though, to get a letter from the Judge to the superintendent 16 saying this Court says no? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd rather do it to the school 18 board members; I think it might be more effective. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, send it to the school 20 board members or whoever, but I can't see us -- or I can't see 21 me going knocking on their doors and talking to them. It just 22 seems like to me it's an easier, effective way to -- to write 23 -- write a letter individually to the school board saying that 24 Commissioners Court intends on voting against it for this and 25 this and this reason. 8-1-07 bwk 227 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They did think their salary 2 should be, at a minimum, the average -- average increase of 3 the entities. Doesn't have to be ours or KISD's, but at least 4 should be no more than the average for a minimum. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree. It's long 6 overdue. They've been getting by with it too long. I really 7 don't think that those budgets are reviewed that well by the 8 school board. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't either. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I sure don't mind calling 11 the Ingram bunch or the Hunt school board. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The more we can -- you know, I 13 think the city of Ingram has a vote, too. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So does city of Kerrville. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's something that we maybe need 17 to put on the agenda and take formal action on it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think so. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, from the city standpoint 20 -- of course, we still need the schools to get it, but at 21 least you can get the city of Kerrville on board that these 22 increases should be comparable to what's being given. We can 23 bring that up on Monday. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: City of Kerrville pays so much 25 anyway, they probably think that they're trying to get them up 8-1-07 bwk 228 1 to the level of city employees. 2 MS. HARGIS: No. To be honest with you, if you set 3 aside the salary issue, this -- this CAD is far behind any of 4 the others in the state that are twice as big as they are. I 5 mean, nobody gets the rolls -- I've never seen such 6 inefficiency, and you're paying more. Harris County beats 7 this time frame, and they're horrible. They've got their 8 rolls ready. If Harris County can get their rolls ready, 9 that's the most disorganized group in the world. Why can't 10 this little county get their tax roll ready? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good point. 12 We're getting worse service, and they want more money all the 13 time. You know, if they were doing an outstanding job -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Everybody's budget is depending upon 15 what they're giving us, and it's going to be so late that if 16 we had that, we wouldn't have to -- we could finish the budget 17 before that new deadline and wouldn't have to comply with the 18 new legislative changes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus, to even make it work -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's true. 21 MS. HARGIS: Which is going to cost us money. If 22 you get your budget done before September 1, you don't have to 23 do the new changes, but if you get them done after that, you 24 have to go on the web site and you have to do all these other 25 publications, which are newspaper publications, which cost 8-1-07 bwk 229 1 money. So, they're actually costing us money. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other part of it, they don't 3 -- all of the Comfort school district, which is the -- from 4 here to the east, most of that area, really, they don't even 5 do the appraisal; it's all done by Kendall County. They don't 6 even -- they just accept Kendall County's values 7 automatically, so they don't even do any appraisal in the 8 whole eastern -- northeastern part of the county. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean, like, Whiskey 10 Canyon? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't do any of that. 12 Don't do our place, don't do anything in Hill Country Ranch 13 Estates. Cypress Creek's all Kendall County. 14 MS. HARGIS: She said Dallas County got theirs last 15 Thursday. 16 MS. HYDE: Dallas County got theirs last Thursday. 17 MS. HARGIS: Montgomery County got theirs last week 18 on Monday. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's the 29th. I think it 20 was the -- 21 MS. HARGIS: The 24th is when -- when Montgomery 22 County and Fort Bend County got theirs, on the 24th. Those 23 are big counties, high populous counties, with -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the normal deadline, though, 25 is the 29th, I believe, wasn't it? 8-1-07 bwk 230 1 MS. HARGIS: That's their drop-dead deadline, but 2 most of them have the tapes to the Tax Assessors by the -- 3 between the 24th and the 29th so that the entities can beat 4 the 31st deadline. Because if you're a city, you have to have 5 60 days to present it to the City Clerk. Well, the 31st is 6 your drop-dead date, and if you don't have your value -- you 7 know, I think it's -- I'm sorry. I've been doing this for a 8 long time, and they're just not very efficient. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we should appoint you to 10 that board. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate your insight. 12 MS. HARGIS: I've been on it before. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I would tend to 14 agree. I was on Kendall County's, and not that they're any -- 15 hold up a great example, but -- 16 MS. HARGIS: They said it was a software problem, 17 but they were late last year, so I don't buy that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Always late. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What I was told was that they were 20 late in getting their notices out, and because they were late 21 in getting notices out, that extended the length of time in 22 which people had to file notice of protest, which then, in 23 turn, extended the length of time for the next step, and 24 however that process works. 25 MS. HARGIS: That's because their software 8-1-07 bwk 231 1 apparently was new. Then why were they late last year? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Write that letter, Judge, to all 3 the entities on the Appraisal District. Tell them all to vote 4 against it. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis and I will work on a draft 7 of a letter. She's -- she's just about half cranked up. I'm 8 going to give her about half a day more to stew on it, and she 9 ought to be really good and steamed. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be a good letter. Where do 11 we have this number for AACOG dues? I don't see it anywhere. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The what? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AACOG dues. Can't find it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Where have we taken that from before? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I was looking 16 at. I just went through the whole thing and can't find it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Auditor should know. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Our AACOG dues, Jeannie, 19 where is it? 20 MS. HARGIS: I don't know. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it was under Nondepartmental. 22 I'd almost bet you. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I looked; I couldn't see it. 24 Maybe I missed it. 25 MS. HARGIS: Let me find out. 8-1-07 bwk 232 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyhow, the number is 305 -- 2 3,056 is the number. 3 MS. HARGIS: 3,056? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is probably under -- as 6 dues. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I couldn't find it, Jon. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Under Nondepartmental. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I couldn't see it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Look under Number 2. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 2? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, Number 2. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me go back and look at 14 it again. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably under Books, 16 Publications, and Dues, 4,200. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, okay. Well, okay. 18 Can't separate out what books and publications are from -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From the dues. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, but the AACOG number 21 is 3,056. 22 MS. HARGIS: Let me make sure where that's at. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But that would be -- I 24 mean, otherwise, I wouldn't know what other dues would be in 25 that -- TAC dues are the only other thing to be in there, 8-1-07 bwk 233 1 maybe. 2 MS. HARGIS: Next year, when we have our notes, 3 we'll have all that in there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I know you're still thinking about 5 what you're going to say to the Appraisal District, aren't 6 you? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: After you write the letter, 8 let it cool off a day before you send it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We will get an asbestos envelope to 10 transmit that puppy. Commissioner, I'm like you; I think that 11 needs to go under County-sponsored as probably a separate 12 item. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It really should not be 14 lumped up in the -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's where it goes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'm on Collections now. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that it on 18 County-sponsored? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to line out CASA, 442, and 20 put it in AACOG dues. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County-sponsored, again, was 22 which tab? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 26. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 26. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 26, okay. That's a good 8-1-07 bwk 234 1 idea to put it there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Got it. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we going to have any more 5 scheduled -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next one is after we get the 7 number. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Which I was told a couple of 9 weeks yesterday or the day before, whichever day it was that I 10 was talking to the Chief Appraiser. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can get an update, then, at 12 our next court. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Collections-slash-Court Compliance. 14 That's under 6. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 6. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since he doesn't offer to give 17 us a trailer any more to move strays around, I think we ought 18 to cut him. (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: At least we could lease it from him, 20 you know, at an attractive rate. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but we'd have to go 22 chase it down every time. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see he's proposing a $2 24 increase to Assistant. Mighty generous of you. 25 MR. TROLINGER: That's per day. 8-1-07 bwk 235 1 MR. ALFORD: I was thinking annually. 2 MS. HYDE: Ouch. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Projected year-end is greater than 4 what's budgeted. I don't know how we get there. 5 MR. ALFORD: I don't know either. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Looks good. 7 MR. ALFORD: Thank you, gentlemen. I do have one 8 question, though. Y'all kind of brought up a deal -- we're 9 going to request or are requesting a scanner in capital outlay 10 for this year -- or for next year. I think we'll have enough 11 remaining in this year's budget, with a budget amendment, to 12 go ahead and buy it. I'd like to go ahead and try to buy it. 13 Commissioner Williams and I, last year, worked out where my 14 gentleman helps part-time in the clerk's office. They're out 15 of work stations now, so we're kind of not necessarily wasting 16 resources, but we may have some extra resources we could use. 17 If I could go ahead and maybe do a budget amendment and get 18 the scanner ordered, we could get it up maybe a month or two 19 earlier, 'cause if we wait till October 1, if y'all approve 20 it, it goes to January by the time we get it up and working. 21 So, maybe I could do a budget amendment, go ahead and get that 22 going; we can start doing some of the scanning documents. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We can start scanning that much 24 sooner. 25 MR. ALFORD: Yes. 8-1-07 bwk 236 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Makes sense you'd want to do that. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds good to me. 3 MR. ALFORD: I'll come back to y'all later, then. 4 Thank you, gentleman. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We -- I don't think it got on 6 the bottom of y'all's; I just added H.R. at the very bottom, 7 because that one didn't end up on anybody's list. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: H.R.? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where is that? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is that? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm trying to figure that out. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are you, Ms. Hyde? 14 MS. HYDE: Sir, I have no idea, but I'm at the 15 bottom, I think. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess we don't have a tab 17 for you. 18 MS. HYDE: Commissioner Baldwin, I made this just 19 for you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you so much. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hey, I found it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What's it under? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Number 12. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a lucky flip. 8-1-07 bwk 237 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By golly, there it is. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In living color. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's an H.R. rep? 5 MS. HYDE: H.R. representative. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, what -- 7 MS. HYDE: Why do I want one more? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. What are we talking about 9 with that? 10 MS. HYDE: I think it's attached to the next page; 11 there's a listing of why I'm requesting one full-time rep. 12 It's still under half of what is recommended by most local, 13 state, and federal entities, which is a ratio of 1-to-100. 14 So, we should have three, but right now we have 1.5, so 15 really, I'm asking for another one. Things that we do are all 16 done underneath there, but not included on that list are 17 things like -- I talked with Commissioner Oehler a little bit, 18 and I think it's more under the heading of risk management. 19 There's been a lot of risk management done this year, for lack 20 of a better term. Perhaps the Judge has another term for it. 21 But there's been a lot of work that's been a little bit 22 outside of H.R., working with other departments, elected 23 officials, and helping with -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you define that as 25 risk management? 8-1-07 bwk 238 1 MS. HYDE: At times. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think she's even done some 3 training -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- out at the Ag Barn to try 6 to help safety issues, and with several different departments. 7 I know of one day -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you probably need some 9 help. Hopefully, just leave it at that. Don't look so 10 piercing. 11 MS. HYDE: I'm grinning. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did I hear you correctly? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Piercing? Yeah, just staring. 14 I think that a lot of the reason there's been a lot of things 15 that you've been asked to do and you're doing it is because 16 the department's new, and they were things that needed to be 17 done. I'm not sure that I see the need for a full-time 18 person -- additional full-time person. I think a part-time 19 person down there or something like that, but that's just how 20 I see it. I think that there's a -- you know, I'd like to go 21 longer and see -- get everything, 'cause a lot of the work 22 that -- the heavy work that's going on right now, and I think 23 going on probably for the next six months, is kind of getting 24 us caught up to where we should be, and you've been doing a 25 lot of that since you've been here. 8-1-07 bwk 239 1 MS. HYDE: I just ask that y'all keep in mind that 2 there's a lot of training that you've asked me to start next 3 year, and we also have to keep in compliance, so those things 4 take time. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could it be done with a 6 part-time person instead of a full-time person? Two part-time 7 people? 8 MS. HYDE: Well, one part-time person needs to be 9 payroll. Payroll right now continues to be almost a full-time 10 job. And, you know, the thing that's not on here that we had 11 talked about four weeks ago, during the first budget, was 12 regarding eDoc versus Incode versus what are we going to look 13 at for getting ourselves in compliance with FLSA? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me come at it from 15 a little different angle, maybe through the back door. One of 16 the reasons why you're here is because a lot of the things in 17 the H.R. department weren't being done. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there any of these in 20 your list that you're asking for to justify another position, 21 are they not now being done? 22 MS. HYDE: No, we're doing them. We're doing them. 23 However, comma, I've got one person who's payroll. And that's 24 why I work weekends, and that's why I work nights. So, that's 25 a lot of work. 8-1-07 bwk 240 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Trolinger -- right, you 2 and Mr. Trolinger. 3 MS. HYDE: Me and Mr. Trolinger, yeah. We talk on 4 the cell phone throughout the night. 5 MR. TROLINGER: After-hours security for the 6 courthouse. (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Something else -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First thing you know, 9 they're going to want a panic button. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there some things that -- that 11 you're now doing that you don't feel like you're devoting 12 adequate attention to, or some things you think that 13 legitimately fall under your H.R. function under the law? 14 MS. HYDE: Well -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That maybe you haven't gotten your 16 teeth sunk into yet? 17 MS. HYDE: FLSA, timekeeping and payroll. Because 18 right now, what we use is a time -- time system which is 19 paper, stray paper. If we are audited, it -- the first fine 20 is $10,000 per employee, per day, up to 30 days. Which -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what? For violations? 22 MS. HYDE: For violations, yes, sir. We should have 23 seven year's worth of backup documentation, so it'll be 24 another four years before we'll have that. But all that 25 documentation has been noted so that if we get audited, they 8-1-07 bwk 241 1 understand that beginning October 1 is when you received an 2 H.R. person; this is what we've done since then, so that they 3 will at least see that we have tried and attempted to get into 4 compliance. 5 MR. TROLINGER: I talked to the Sheriff a little bit 6 about the software issue, and I've discovered that the City 7 uses the Incode software for their police department 8 personnel, but they have a different structure than the 9 Sheriff. And I believe it's an issue of overtime that -- that 10 makes that difficult. 11 MS. HYDE: Right. 12 MR. TROLINGER: In other words, the City's paying on 13 a regular basis overtime at a certain rate, and the Sheriff is 14 doing something else. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Comp time. 16 MR. TROLINGER: I think that's the roadblock on the 17 -- on the software, where we're having to look to a 18 third-party outside of the software we already have. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to my question. Are 20 there any other besides FLSA? 21 MS. HYDE: We were not doing COBRA, we were not 22 doing FMLA. As you're well aware, we were not validating 23 insurance to a major extent. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you mean by that? 25 MS. HYDE: We overpaid insurance, Mutual of Omaha. 8-1-07 bwk 242 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. HYDE: Multiple times for several years. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've already told us that. 4 MS. HYDE: Those things appeared at first to be much 5 more important -- of much more importance, and trying to get 6 those cost dollars back down, which I think we've all done a 7 good job. Mindy has been a super help. But now this year, we 8 need to go into federal compliance issues, E.E.O.C., safety, 9 FLSA, those type of things. Those are -- those are federal 10 guidelines. Those aren't our guidelines, it's theirs, and we 11 surely don't want any undue attention brought to us. So, with 12 the policy book meetings that we're having, part of that is 13 absolutely right. The Sheriff's Department -- law enforcement 14 is different, but that doesn't mean that the other two-thirds 15 of the county employees cannot do it right. Does that answer 16 your question better? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just want to know the areas 18 that either, one, you feel like you're not giving enough 19 attention to, because -- 20 MS. HYDE: You're not giving enough to safety, as 21 well. Now, we did focus on three areas, the three places that 22 we're having the most worker's comp injuries, and as you guys 23 are well aware, we've gotten checks back, so we've reduced 24 those. Animal Control has not had one -- knock on wood -- in 25 120 days. Prior to that, they had one -- they were averaging 8-1-07 bwk 243 1 one every 4.5 days, so that's a huge difference, just in 2 making sure that they have the proper gear, they're using the 3 proper safety modes. Same thing with maintenance. We had 4 several maintenance accidents and injuries, but they've had 5 two safety meetings, but we also were able to get the 6 employees to go and have them talk about what are the issues 7 they're having when they try to do their job? Do they have 8 the right tools? Do they have the right eyewear? You know, 9 do they have hats? Do they have water? Those type of things. 10 You know, employees can be your greatest source of 11 information, and just getting them together -- we've got them 12 together twice now, and our plan is to start having monthly 13 safety meetings and reenact our safety committee, which 14 currently -- that's my fault. I have not asked for new 15 members. But we have two people that are deceased on the 16 committee, and we have one that no longer works here. So, you 17 know, it -- it's not a good committee at this point. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Plus, I believe she wants to 19 implement a computer training program with some of our older 20 computers, set up stations to train employees to know how to 21 operate the system that we have in the courthouse to make it 22 more efficient, and I think that's a -- those are things that 23 I believe have been mentioned that need to be taken care of, 24 that haven't been. And I'm not saying that we have a blank 25 check here, but I think that she does need another employee. 8-1-07 bwk 244 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I've seen, Commissioner, 2 is anything that came down the pike in the last year that 3 didn't clearly fall within some existing department was -- 4 kind of got into the funnel going her direction, and she 5 became the jack of all trades, as it were. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's helped me tremendously 7 with my stuff, with the things I'm liaison for. And at least 8 part of the situations, and I think most of them -- I know 9 Animal Control, Environmental Health, and -- and the Ag Barn 10 stuff, we've done some things on that, and I think she's 11 uncovered a little bit of -- of information in the library 12 budget that I missed. 13 MS. HYDE: How about if I say this? It's going to 14 be something you heard earlier this morning, but please don't 15 get angry at me. What about if I -- if I do compromise and 16 say, okay, let's try a part-time person and see how it works? 17 With the understanding that -- you know, I -- I don't like 18 doing a shotgun approach, and that's the biggest problem that 19 I'm having right now. I don't feel like I ever get anything 20 done well. I get it done, but it's not to my expectations or 21 what I would want at times. But -- and if I can't do that, 22 then I request that y'all remember this so that I can come 23 back and say, "Look, I need help." 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think the other side of 25 that is -- I appreciate that offer. I think the other side of 8-1-07 bwk 245 1 it is that, just from the standpoint of timing, Jody came on, 2 you know, right during this whole period. Some of these 3 things that you have been doing, in my mind, you know, if she 4 had more experience, she could have done some of that. We 5 need to shift some of that workload to Jody's office. Which 6 we don't want to get her overburdened either, but at the same 7 time, I think she has some time to do some of the things, and 8 a lot -- for example, a lot of the Ag Barn daily stuff. You 9 know, it was easier to let you go ahead with that; you're a 10 little bit familiar with it, but I think a lot of that now can 11 probably be up at Jody's office. So, I think there are some 12 things that you -- I mean, we want you to have the staff to 13 get done what you need to get done in the H.R. department. I 14 just see that there's a -- a lot -- we're so far better off in 15 that whole area than we were before. I think once we get a 16 lot of this kind of done and more into a standard routine, I 17 think your workload will come back some. I think you still 18 will need help down there, but I don't know that you need a 19 full-time person. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva, is there any chance 21 that your current part-time employee would go full-time? 22 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: She doesn't want to. 24 MS. HYDE: She wants part-time. She wants 25 part-time. 8-1-07 bwk 246 1 JUDGE TINLEY: She's probably working just a little 2 bit more than she really wants to, isn't she? 3 MS. HYDE: She had thought that it was going to be 4 24 hours a week, and it's been 32 -- pretty much 32. I work 5 her 32 two weeks and then 24 one week. I'm trying to keep it 6 underneath the budget to show that I -- I was trying to work 7 towards keeping it under the budget this year. But -- and 8 she's done a darn good job. I think that we were all 9 surprised at what we thought she knew versus what she had 10 never been trained on, and how we kind of jump-kicked in 11 there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: One thing I don't want you to -- to 13 neglect are the safety issues, the worker's comp, the safety 14 -- safety committee and safety training. And if you'll look 15 back, just during this past year, we've got another safety 16 award that's coming -- 17 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from Texas Association of 19 Counties. 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That they just haven't gotten over 22 here with. We had a considerable chunk of money saved on 23 worker's comp this past year on our liability insurance, about 24 $53,000. 25 MS. HYDE: Right. 8-1-07 bwk 247 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a -- that was a direct 2 credit against our premium cost. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No question that we can -- I 4 mean -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll make that money. 6 MS. HYDE: We'd like to also make sure that this 7 year, if we do implement the wellness program with our 8 insurance, that we can get out and help people understand why 9 it's important. You know, wellness -- wellness, the big two 10 are smoking and weight, and if we can get people to lose 11 five pounds, it decreases by 3 percent what your insurance 12 cost is, just because people don't get as sick or have as many 13 problems, weight-related problems that you don't realize. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You give me credit for the 15 15 I've lost? 16 MS. HYDE: Sorry? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does he get credit for the 15 18 he's already lost? 19 MS. HYDE: Not yet. I don't think -- I don't think 20 we can accrue it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to say I'm -- 22 I'm kind on the same page with the Judge. I think that a lot 23 of your effort this year has been diverted -- your attention 24 has been diverted to things that probably don't fall 25 traditionally under the H.R. realm. And my whole role in this 8-1-07 bwk 248 1 is to make certain that all these things are done in 2 compliance and totally and completely. As I said earlier, 3 that's why you're here. So, if it's going to take additional 4 help, a half-time person to start with, to get you there, with 5 the refocusing of everybody's efforts, then I can go that way. 6 MS. HYDE: Appreciate it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In your offer, you said that 8 when -- when I see that I need help, y'all don't forget, and 9 I'll come back to you and ask you for a full-time person. Do 10 you see that happening within this next year, in this budget 11 year? Or is that something that we'd talk about next -- 12 MS. HYDE: I'll try very hard not to. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 14 MS. HYDE: My goal would be not to. I'll try very 15 hard not to. But, at the same time, I think that it depends. 16 I mean, I'm not going to fudge. I think that it depends on -- 17 do some of our personnel issues in other areas maybe decrease? 18 Because we've had a lot -- we've had a lot of issues this year 19 that has taken a lot of time. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think all those things that 21 you've talked about taking on, you know, like the insurance 22 orientation and the computer classes and all those things are 23 very important, and I see the final product of having better 24 employees and all of that. I understand that. But I -- I 25 think that we need to take baby steps in the thing. I don't 8-1-07 bwk 249 1 think -- and a full-time person is not a gigantic thing by any 2 means, but, you know, being a tight old county, I just think 3 that we need to ease into it. For you, too. Why are you 4 laughing? 5 MS. HYDE: Absolutely -- no, I'm agreeing. That's 6 why I said let's go part-time. But if I see, when we get into 7 June, May, if I'm -- if I'm to a point where I'm going to need 8 help, I'm going to come start hollering, because I need to be 9 able to focus more on making sure I'm working with Looney on 10 our insurance, making sure I'm working on the safety. Because 11 the 150,000 to 200,000 that we're getting back for worker's 12 comp, that's huge, compared to our payout. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 14 MS. HYDE: Our liability this year has decreased so 15 much that it's helped us. And I don't want us -- I don't want 16 next year for you to tell me, "How come you didn't save us 17 that money this year, Ms. Hyde?" 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, I'm going to 19 anyway. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eva, where are we on 21 streamlining payroll? We talked a long time about direct 22 input into payroll from the department heads. Where are we in 23 that? 24 MS. HYDE: We are no further, because the current -- 25 the current system that we have, unfortunately, during 8-1-07 bwk 250 1 implementation, it was not set up, period. So, all you can do 2 is go in and hit the number of hours that somebody works; 3 that's all, so we're still going to have to have paper. If 4 we're going to have paper and the computer, then let's look at 5 what do we do? Do we stay with paper another year and try to 6 get them all on paper, and try to save some money and see if 7 we can get everyone streamlined on paper? Do we go to the 8 additional software at $35,000 to $55,000? I mean, that was 9 something that we had talked about in the first one, which it 10 was 55,000 for eDoc. And it's 35 -- no, I mean it's 35 for 11 eCode -- or Incode. So, I think it's -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: Are you asking me? 13 MS. HYDE: Sure. 14 MR. TROLINGER: We use Incode. 15 MS. HYDE: 'Cause we already have it. 16 MR. TROLINGER: If they don't submit their time, 17 they don't get paid. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's novel. 19 MR. TROLINGER: And start the system working. 20 MS. HYDE: Okay, that's a real good idea, but we pay 21 in advance. So, if you pay in advance -- 22 MR. TROLINGER: So, number one, we need to bring 23 Incode back to finish the implementation for the H.R. portion, 24 timekeeping. 25 MS. HYDE: That's right. 8-1-07 bwk 251 1 MR. TROLINGER: And then impose a deadline -- 2 MS. HYDE: You're still not going to be able not to 3 pay people. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: How do you suggest that we do a skip 5 so that we're not, quote, paying in advance? 6 MS. HYDE: One week. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not submitting a payroll 8 before -- 9 MS. HYDE: One week. We hold them back one week, 10 all new employees. Right now, we don't hold people back. We 11 don't hold them back at all, so when I do payroll, I'm doing 12 payroll five to six days in advance, before anyone ever works. 13 So what happens is, if people don't turn in their paperwork 14 saying someone's quit, someone's reassigned -- those are the 15 big ones that we've had. Or I like the one where they quit, 16 but then I have to put them back in the system to pay them one 17 more check because of the vacation or whatever else they have, 18 so then we screw up and -- excuse me, we mess up, and we 19 forget and we don't take them out the next time. I mean, it's 20 a real hassle putting them in and putting them out. So, we've 21 done that multiple times, we've caught them. There's been one 22 that we haven't caught; it's cost us $800. The other one we 23 got back 3,200 where somebody didn't tell us for two months. 24 We got the 3,200 back and the 7,600 back, but that's 25 embarrassing. It looks like we have no control. 8-1-07 bwk 252 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, this is not a new 2 discussion. I thought we went through this before. 3 MS. HYDE: We did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And the software packages we 5 purchased, we're going to correct that? 6 MS. HYDE: I wasn't in that discussion, sir. That's 7 P.E.; that's prior Eva. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Well, that's -- what we just 9 discussed was the Sheriff's issue with how he pays. And it 10 may be true that the Sheriff may have a higher, you know, 11 initial cost for overtime if he starts using this software, 12 but should he not do that? In order to be in -- 13 MS. HYDE: I think what needs to happen -- I think 14 what needs to happen, if we get the software -- if we get the 15 software and we turn the software on, at 35,000 plus another 16 3,500, so that your reports could be written like you want 17 them, that will be right at 40,000. Then we -- we need to 18 enforce that people have to use the software, and we hold back 19 one week. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You say hold back one week. 21 What do you mean, "hold back"? 22 MS. HYDE: You hold back one week so that when you 23 do your payroll -- for example, we pay on the 15th and the 24 last of the month. You hold back one week, so that when I 25 pay, I'm paying from the 10th. So that if someone quits or 8-1-07 bwk 253 1 someone's gone, we have something that shows us that those 2 people have actually worked, and that's why we're paying them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we -- I mean, is there 4 something -- are the employees going to get a -- have a period 5 -- a longer period between paychecks or something? I mean -- 6 MS. HYDE: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing -- the employees don't 8 see anything differently? 9 MS. HYDE: It would be if someone started, for 10 example, on the 2nd of the month, we would hold back the first 11 five days that they worked, and then they would get paid for 12 five. I mean, the system we have for our part-time workforce, 13 they don't get paid except what they've worked, so when our 14 cutoff is, like, the 23rd of this month, they only get paid 15 through the 23rd. So, we're only paying them for what they 16 actually worked. But the rest of us get paid in advance. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But to convert to that at some point 18 in time, there's going to have to be a gap of approximately 19 one-half of a payroll? 20 MS. HYDE: Right, if you're going to try to do that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Going to hit the fan. 22 MS. HYDE: That's right. Hitting the fan is a nice 23 way to put it. I need to be on vacation. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you need to be here. 25 MS. HYDE: Now, if we did -- we did a -- a pseudo 8-1-07 bwk 254 1 number. Mindy and I kind of hammered this one out and did a 2 pseudo number. If we did it without having the employees do 3 it -- pay for it, per se, it cost us about $80,000. 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 MS. HYDE: 26,000 for the software. 6 MS. HARGIS: Then you need -- 7 MS. HYDE: Then 3,000 for the maintenance? 8 MS. HARGIS: Annual maintenance. And then I haven't 9 asked them how much it would cost to do the remainder of the 10 implementation. I was going to -- I really didn't know 11 exactly what all you needed. That's why I wanted you to -- 12 MS. HYDE: If we bought the new software, 13 implementation is included. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, the quote includes 15 installation. But the H.R. module for Incode, is that needed 16 in order to do payroll the way we want to? 17 MS. HARGIS: Well, the things that we need right now 18 to make payroll right, first of all, is she needs them to come 19 back in and put in the codes for vacation and things of that 20 nature that were not implemented, the programming language. 21 That probably can be done, I would think, over the phone 22 through -- with your help, through the mainframe, but they're 23 going to charge us for that, because it didn't get done in the 24 beginning. They had given her a quote of 2,500. I don't 25 know. Maybe we can get them to back off that if we buy 8-1-07 bwk 255 1 whatever else we did. The H.R., that will get everything on 2 the pay stubs that we need as far as her tracking; you have 3 what you call a time sheet program, which is on everybody's 4 computer, and they would have -- they would all need a 5 password and stuff, and they would go on and everybody can 6 fill it out, and you can put if you worked, you know, a half 7 an hour, whatever. You can put whatever your hours are on 8 that sheet. Then they would need to be approved by their 9 supervisors and so forth. Now, it's not going to have a 10 tracking system like what Eva would -- the -- you know, the 11 ultimate goal would be to say when I came in and I turned my 12 computer on and I got in at 8:02, then it would show that I 13 got in at 8:02. And if I went out to lunch, I would hit my 14 computer again and it would say 12 o'clock, and then when I 15 came back, it would be 1 o'clock, and so forth. 16 MS. HYDE: They're still going to have to do a paper 17 time sheet, and the supervisors can keep it or we can keep it 18 in H.R., but they're still going to have to do a paper time 19 sheet. Because if you're audited and they come in, they want 20 to see that. Not everybody shows 8:00 to 11:00 I worked, 21 11:00 to 12:00 I'm at lunch, and 12:00 to 5:00 I worked. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about 23 compliance with FLSA? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 MS. HARGIS: But the H.R. module itself provides for 8-1-07 bwk 256 1 the additional reports that we're not able to get right now, 2 which we really need. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I would like, 'cause I'm 4 getting brain dead at this point trying to figure this out, is 5 either put it on our next agenda, what needs to be done to fix 6 these problems, or do it with our final workshop after we get 7 the numbers. I mean, something clearly needs to be done. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you had the module -- if 9 you had the modules and all that stuff, would you still need 10 the extra person? 11 MS. HYDE: I still need at least a half a person, 12 yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the software part needs 15 to -- we need to get that. 16 MS. HYDE: I agree. I just don't want us to jump in 17 and it not be what we need. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you need to get what's 19 best -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for us. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's, you know -- 23 MR. TROLINGER: And, essentially, $2,500 to complete 24 the setup that was not -- that was not done at implementation. 25 MS. HYDE: Is cheap. 8-1-07 bwk 257 1 MR. TROLINGER: And we can start having pay stubs 2 that show vacation, et cetera. That's the first step. 3 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see nods there. So, 2,500. 5 That's pretty -- I can certainly live with 2,500. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long will it take to get 7 that, Mr. Trolinger? 8 MR. TROLINGER: It's a matter of scheduling a person 9 from Software. I don't know what the time frame is. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can be done with -- is it 11 possible to accomplish it in this budget year? During budget 12 year? 13 MS. HYDE: We can try. It depends on what they're 14 doing. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least get it installed and 16 ready so that we can hit the next fiscal year running with 17 this in place and working. Even if we don't implement it 18 until October 1. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Possibly. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Where do we need to plug in that 21 cost? 22 MS. HYDE: I plugged it in where y'all had said to 23 plug it in before, was which down there under Capital Outlay, 24 I put in 35,000 to 55,000, and with big exclamation marks, 25 "Oh, my god!" But John's saying -- I mean, excuse me, 8-1-07 bwk 258 1 Ms. Hargis is saying 26,000 for software, 3,000 a year for the 2 maintenance, and then $3,500 for report writer. 3 MS. HARGIS: Now, the report writer we don't have to 4 put under H.R. The report writer encompasses our whole -- our 5 whole financial software system, and it -- to be able to 6 convert it into Excel so that we can have better stuff; that 7 -- that we can maybe put in -- you know, spread that line out 8 amongst all the departments, or put it in his operating, 9 'cause that -- that financial report writer can be used on 10 anything we have on Incode. It can be used on the budgeting 11 part next year, the purchase order part. It's -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's a nondepartmental item. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's a nondepartmental item. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Incode report writer? 16 MS. HARGIS: Uh-huh. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's 3,500? 18 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under Nondepartmental. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes, I think so. I don't think that 21 that's really -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe just put it under I.T. 23 MS. HARGIS: She shouldn't take the blunt end of 24 that one. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or I.T. 8-1-07 bwk 259 1 MS. HARGIS: Whichever. 2 MS. HYDE: And John corrected me also. He said 3 under 570, to put -- it would be 26,000, and then under 563, 4 it would be the 2864, plus an additional 3,000. And that one 5 was one I'll kind of argue about later. 6 MR. TROLINGER: We should negotiate that. 7 MS. HYDE: Do you know what I'm saying, Commissioner 8 Letz? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And the capital outlay, 570, is how 10 much? 11 MS. HYDE: He said 26 -- John said put 26 in there. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those real numbers, or 14 are you just pulling them out of the air? 15 MS. HARGIS: I just got them a few days ago. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got them where? You got 17 them from Mr. -- 18 MS. HARGIS: Incode. I think we actually should go 19 to 26, 'cause it was 26 and change. So -- 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know what this is? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Puppet? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's a doggy poo bag. 24 The doggy folks want us to buy doggy poo bags to put in the 25 park to grab ahold of that and put it under -- 8-1-07 bwk 260 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ooh, squishy. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they give you the prices 3 for them. 4 MS. HYDE: Oh, my goodness. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not kidding you. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They want the taxpayers to 7 pay for that? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My vote is no. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I recall during the dog park 11 discussion that they were going to be provided at no cost to 12 the county; refuse bags -- the little container, all the 13 refuse bags and so forth. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this note says if the 16 County doesn't want to do this, maybe the owners will. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to go get a 18 six-pack. Anybody want anything? (Laughter.) 19 AUDIENCE: I'll take a scotch and soda. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll take us a break. Kathy's 21 worn out. We'll come back in about 10, 15 minutes. 22 (Budget workshop concluded at 4:07 p.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 25 8-1-07 bwk 261 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 31st day of 9 October, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-1-07 bwk