1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, August 27, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 27, 2007 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 4 authorize Clear River Advocates' use of Flat Rock Lake Park on September 1, 2007 14 5 1.2 Presentation from Investment Advisor Linda 6 Patterson with Patterson & Associates 17 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on Kerr County Investment Policy 32 8 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 9 issues involving tract size, right-of-way dedication, floodplain admin., and review 10 process in the ETJ of Kerrville 40 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to renew appointment of Hugh Jons to 9-1-1 Board 12 of Governors 63 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2007 Audit Engagement Letter from 14 Pressler, Thompson and Company; authorize County Judge to sign the same 63 15 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 accept the resignation of Precinct 1 Justice of the Peace effective as of close of business on 17 August 31, 2007 72 18 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to appoint a new Justice of the Peace for Precinct 1 73 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to use 20 budgeted funds from 15-611-552, Emulsion Oils, after October 1, 2007 76 21 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 22 delinquent tax notices 78 23 1.18 Presentation of Safety Award from Texas Association of Counties 91 24 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 25 revision of Lot 13 and water well lot in Oak Ridge Estates; possibly set date for public hearing 95 3 1 I N D E X August 27, 2007 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 purchase Road and Bridge software 101 4 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on adopted '07-'08 Kerr Central Appraisal District 5 budget 107 6 1.13 Consider, discuss and take appropriate action on proposed amendment(s) to taxing unit agenda for 7 Kerr Central Appraisal District 2006 budget, in accordance with request letter dated 8-2-07 112 8 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 adopt the fees charged for civil services by the offices of Sheriff and Constables 113 10 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 appoint County Judge Pat Tinley to Board of Trustees of Hill Country Community M.H.M.R. 12 Center for a two-year term effective 9-1-07 114 13 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to further discuss new policy and fee schedule 14 for Kerr County Exhibition Center (Ag Barn) & rescind all previous orders pertaining to such 116 15 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 advertise for RFP's for professional services of an architectural design/evaluation/site planner 17 for the Youth Exhibition Center building project 134 18 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept a donation of metal folding chairs from 19 City of Kerrville; instruct Maintenance Department to transfer same from Blackwell Fire Station to 20 HCYEC for storage and use 152 21 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on adopting a policy on filing unofficial plats not 22 approved by Commissioner's Court in Plat Records or other location in County Clerk's Office 154 23 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 24 making minor adjustments to Sections 6.02, 6.03, and 6.035 of Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 25 Regulations relating to plat size requirements and OSSF requirements 155 4 1 I N D E X August 27, 2007 2 PAGE 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 setting up workshop with Bickerstaff, Heath, Delgado, Acosta, Ltd., to review new legislation 4 concerning county subdivision rules & regulations 158 5 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on renovation plan for pole barn at Hill Country 6 Youth Exhibition Center & authorize going out for bids for concrete work 162 7 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding 8 what level of worker's compensation should be carried on Sheriff's Office reserve deputies 178 9 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 discuss possibility of the City of Ingram entering into a contract with Kerr County for animal control 186 11 12 4.1 Pay Bills 195 4.2 Budget Amendments 199 13 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 203 14 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 15 Assignments 203 16 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials 210 17 --- Adjourned 216 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, August 27, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 7 regular meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court which 8 is posted and scheduled for this time and date, Monday, 9 August 27th, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 10 Commissioner Oehler? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's have a moment of prayer, 12 and then we'll be following that by the pledge of allegiance. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 15 any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard 16 on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, why, we 17 welcome you to come forward at this time and tell us what's on 18 your mind. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd 19 ask that you fill out a participation form at the back of the 20 room. If they're not there, or if for some reason you don't 21 fill one out and suddenly feel the urge to be heard on an 22 agenda item, if you'll get my attention when we get to that 23 item, I'll see that you're recognized. But right now, if 24 there's any member of the public or audience that wishes to be 25 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, please 8-27-07 6 1 feel free to come forward at this time. Seeing no one coming 2 forward, we'll move forward. Commissioner Oehler, what do you 3 have for us this morning? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, not a whole lot. I 5 could talk to you about an hour but it probably doesn't serve 6 any purpose at this point. There's just a lot of things going 7 on, as usual. Animal Control and Environmental Health, and 8 had a Library Board meeting the other day that was not very 9 enlightening. And, I don't know; I guess one of the comments 10 I'd like to make is the fact that it seems to me that the City 11 of Kerrville does just not want to get along. They -- they 12 just kind of give us a mandate; say, "Here it is, y'all just 13 pay it." We're like the ATM machine, and we don't really have 14 much -- much authority to negotiate anything with them. I 15 think that's really sad. And I don't know where they come up 16 with some of their numbers, 'cause they don't tell us, but 17 they want us to pay, and I don't like that. But I'm not sure 18 what I can do about it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Been there, did that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dittos Number 4. We've got 22 -- we've got a small problem. Today we're going to appoint a 23 new Justice of the Peace in Precinct 1, and whomever that 24 person will be will be brand-new to the job. And the very 25 next day, it is his turn to magistrate out at the jail. I 8-27-07 7 1 think there's -- out of the next three days, a couple of them 2 are J.P. 1's turn, and there is some reluctance on other 3 J.P.'s to help us and fill in that particular -- those 4 particular days. So, we're trying to work it out even as we 5 speak, waiting on some return calls, and -- but it just blows 6 my mind sometimes, the lack of cooperation around our family 7 here. But, anyway, before I say something I shouldn't, I 8 think I'll quit. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got up early this morning to 11 do a -- make a speech that Judge Tinley threw the requester 12 over to me, and so I had to get up and get my computer and 13 projector and hightail it down to the Inn of the Hills to talk 14 about AACOG for the better part of 30 minutes this morning. 15 We did that. But I also want to thank the new employee 16 welfare fund, I believe it is, for the beautiful plant they 17 sent my bride in the hospital, and she asked me to find out 18 who's responsible for that. So, I asked Jody this morning so 19 she could send a thank-you note. But we're going to move 20 Ms. Lew this morning for rehab and get her out of the 21 hospital. We thank whomever for the beautiful plant. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's under Eva and Mindy. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll convey it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At this point. 8-27-07 8 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a couple of not real 2 important things, and one important thing. If I look a little 3 tired, it's because Sam informed us last night we have ghosts 4 and monsters in our house. (Laughter.) So -- so Karen said 5 we're going to spray our house, and she's going to pick up 6 some ghost and monster spray killer, and we will eliminate 7 them from our house; we will not have another night like last 8 night. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be one of those 10 old spray cans? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure what Karen's going 12 to get for that, but I assured Sam we will not have them in 13 our house this evening. I'm not sure we talked about it in 14 court before, but it's a -- I met with an individual -- 15 interesting. In 2009 -- July, I believe -- we will be hosting 16 in Kerrville the International Congress of Speleology. 17 Speleology is the -- it's kind of like spelunking, but it's 18 beyond just caves. It's kind of karsts, which are limestone 19 aquifer rock cave systems; kind of includes all that. And we 20 are in the -- just by our geography, are one of the largest 21 karst systems in the world. And the International Congress -- 22 it's a pretty big deal. About 2,500 people are coming in from 23 all over the world for this. I met with their director, and 24 will hand out a few of these, and these are available for 25 anyone else that wants them. This is the first flyer. 8-27-07 9 1 They're going to be here for a full week, in conjunction -- 2 they're primarily going to be at Schreiner College. They've, 3 I guess, rented Schreiner for that week, and -- but they will 4 also be using other venues in the city, and certainly a lot of 5 people around. A lot of them, I -- it was described to me as 6 the type of individuals that will be here, it'll be a group 7 that are on expense accounts from universities and governments 8 around the world, and that there will be another group that 9 will be in tents and backpacks from around the world. Those 10 are the more cave people -- cave crawlers, and the other ones 11 are more on the aquifer side. But, anyway, they kind of work 12 together. Should be pretty interesting. There's a lot more 13 coming up down the road about that, but I just thought I would 14 let everyone know that they will be hosting that. Only the 15 second time in history that this congress has been in the same 16 country twice, and it was in the United States in 1981. And 17 we beat out New Braunfels. We didn't have anything to do with 18 it; they internally decided they thought we were a better 19 location than New Braunfels. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, didn't they say that 21 our -- our underground system is similar to others, like -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eastern Europe has quite a few, 23 and evidently Vietnam has quite a few, and Cuba. Cuba has 24 become a little bit of a challenge. They'd like to have Cuba 25 involved, but it's more a diplomatic issue. And also, 8-27-07 10 1 Kerrville, we've spent quite a bit of time -- we don't have 2 any control over it, but getting visas to these people are -- 3 it's a challenge, because evidently we're so much more 4 difficult, and we're going through the State Department. 5 Anyway, they're doing all kinds of stuff. They're working 6 with Sudie's group a little bit already, and they're going to 7 have field trips going to caves all around here. And, anyway, 8 they'll be here; it will be a pretty big deal for about a 9 week, and I think it's towards the end of July in 2009. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we may have the 11 opportunity to participate with them through the Ag Barn and 12 Union Church and -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- some things like that? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've actually even offered 16 some funds possibly to help things along in some areas. 17 Unfortunately, not enough to really help along too much, but 18 anyway... And I guess the last thing I want to bring up -- I 19 can't even remember if we met since we had the last round of 20 flooding, but -- I think we did, but the -- that last big 21 flood, while the -- the rise on most of the creeks was not 22 real significant, there was one creek, North Creek, which 23 comes close to Kendall County, but comes -- feeds to Cypress 24 Creek. Anyway, it was probably the highest it's ever been, 25 and as a result of that, Cypress Creek flooded Comfort. And 8-27-07 11 1 it was probably the second worst, in my memory, flood of 2 Comfort. The park in Comfort had about 3 feet of water 3 through it. It was that deep. The drug shop, Cypress Creek 4 Inn, all those businesses along there, all those homes were 5 flooded significantly. The old baseball field, which is now 6 the softball field for the high school, was pretty much 7 demolished. Old football stadium was under about 3 feet of 8 water. It was a very significant flood right in that area. 9 It was quite phenomenal. Easiest way, if you go into Comfort 10 cross Cypress Creek right there, the water was probably 3 or 11 4 feet above the guardrails on the bridge. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm with you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was a major, major flood, and 14 it came down to -- it was North Creek was what caused it. It 15 was not coming down through Cypress Creek. It was just 16 going -- it's kind of -- the watershed of it's along Highway 17 87 towards Fredericksburg up Steeler Hill, kind of where North 18 Creek comes from. But, anyway, just thought I'd bring that 19 up. A lot of those people -- the businesses could use your 20 support in buying things, 'cause they need a little bit of 21 revenue, and restaurants and all the other businesses, and the 22 people, and some donations. They were hit pretty hard. 23 That's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I want to thank 25 Commissioner Williams for his work on AACOG, Alamo Area 8-27-07 12 1 Council of Governments. He's been our go-to guy with AACOG at 2 least since I've been in office, and has been a consistent 3 player down there, and on the board, and I believe the 4 executive board also, and has really done a good job. And 5 that's -- that was the subject of his -- of his discussion 6 this morning with the club that he made the presentation to. 7 So, I'm sure they found it very informative, and -- but the 8 bottom line is, I appreciate his service that he's given for 9 Kerr County on that AACOG Board. 10 I was -- I was privileged to attend and to present 11 some awards to some young people with 4-H this past weekend. 12 As some of you may know, there are at least two awards that 13 this Commissioners Court gives out. One is to the particular 14 4-H youth that -- that has done an outstanding job in their 15 programs. The other is to -- to an adult volunteer. Of 16 course, all those 4-H activities are family-based, and there 17 are a lot of adult leaders and volunteers that are there, so I 18 was privileged to present both of those awards, as well as 19 three different Gold Star awards that -- that the local 4-H 20 group awards. I've said it before, and I'm going to say it 21 again; that we hear that that Ag Barn complex doesn't even 22 break even, that we end up spending more money than it brings 23 in. And there's some intangibles that you don't see out 24 there. Those young people that are involved in 4-H programs, 25 they don't show up in my juvenile court. They're involved in 8-27-07 13 1 a lot of real positive programs. They're positive kids. 2 They're developing positive life skills, positive leadership 3 skills, and they practice those skills and they help develop 4 their peers around them. So, as a consequence, I don't see 5 them, and that's a tremendous savings to Kerr County. We talk 6 about the cost of our juvenile justice system. Yes, it is 7 expensive. But it's like the Fram commercial; you pay me now, 8 or you pay me later. And I think the cheaper way to go is to 9 pay it on the front end and try and keep those kids out of the 10 adult criminal justice system, and if we can do that, we're 11 far, far ahead economically. And when it comes to the benefit 12 of those kids as future adult citizens, I don't think there's 13 any question but what we're far ahead. So, the 4-H programs 14 are a good thing, and I was proud to participate in them. 15 That's all I have. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, one quick note in the 17 context of AACOG the Court might find interesting. That is 18 that Mayor Gene Smith of the City of Kerrville has joined that 19 Board of Directors, having been selected to replace Patrick 20 Heath, who for 28 years was the mayor of Boerne and a well 21 established member of the AACOG Board. And so Mayor Smith 22 prevailed, and -- in the discussions with the mayors of 23 Boerne, Bandera, Fredericksburg, and Kerrville, and he is now 24 a member of that board for the remainder of his term, I guess. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's get with the agenda 8-27-07 14 1 and move to Item 1. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 2 action to authorize Clear River Advocates use of Flat Rock 3 Lake Park on September 1, 2007. I put this on the agenda. 4 Mr. Willis and his group had their little gathering down 5 there, and they had some weather issues and they weren't able 6 to do a portion of their program that they had planned because 7 of -- because of the weather issues. And so, in essence, they 8 -- they kind of cut it in two, and did part of it down there, 9 which I was very happy to participate in, and the balance of 10 it they want to do down there on September the 1st in the 11 evening. 12 MR. WILLIS: Absolutely, 7 p.m. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I do note that we've got some sort of 14 a -- some sort of a fun run that's going on during the day 15 that involves Flat Rock Lake Park to a smaller degree, but 16 mostly over on the city side with the Kerrville-Schreiner city 17 park over there, and the park is available in the evening. 18 So, based upon those two factors, why, I put that on the 19 agenda for the Court's approval to allow Mr. Willis to finish 20 up his Clean River programs. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this a continuation of 22 the floats and so forth that we -- or is this actually a 23 cleanup program? 24 MR. WILLIS: No, this is the continuation of the -- 25 of the event that we had of the floats. We were only able to 8-27-07 15 1 do the floats, so we have the fashion show and the dance -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MR. WILLIS: -- that are following. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is not the actual river 5 cleanup? 6 MR. WILLIS: No, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Taking trash out and so 8 forth? 9 MR. WILLIS: We're attending the U.G.R.A. cleanup on 10 the 8th. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 MR. WILLIS: We're going to have -- they're having 13 one, so we're going to do that one. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Flat Rock Lake Park's 15 not being used as a storage area for trash? 16 MR. WILLIS: No. We won't even actually -- we're 17 mostly using the boat ramp for this event, anyway. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I only ask the 19 question because one time the park was used for sort of a 20 receptacle for trash taken out of -- out of the river, and it 21 stayed out in the park for an extraordinarily long time, so I 22 just wanted to be sure what was taking place. Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From 7 p.m. till? 24 MR. WILLIS: Well, it'll probably last till the park 25 closes. I think at 11:00, right? So, we'll shut her down 8-27-07 16 1 when the park closes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval. Any question or discussion? All in favor of that 7 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 12 Mr. Willis. 13 MR. WILLIS: Boy, that was easy. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your work. 15 MR. WILLIS: May I approach? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you have? 17 MR. WILLIS: I have something for you and for 18 Mr. Oehler here for being judges at the parade this year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. That's most kind of you. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that, and thank you. 21 That was a really big judging. 22 MR. WILLIS: Yeah. Well, you know, the weather 23 scared them off. But, you know, we should have a pretty good 24 group at the dance and fashion show, and we're hoping that you 25 guys will attend. 8-27-07 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you so much. 2 MR. WILLIS: Thank you. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate that. 4 MR. WILLIS: Y'all have a good day. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 2, if we might, a 6 presentation from investment advisor Linda Patterson with 7 Patterson Associates. Ms. Hargis, our auditor, has asked that 8 this item be placed on the agenda. 9 MS. HARGIS: Good morning. Commissioners, I'd like 10 to introduce to you Linda Patterson from Patterson and 11 Associates. Linda has been in the investment business for 12 many years, and I've worked with her for many years. She -- 13 her firm specializes in governmental entities and investing 14 with governmental entities, so I'm going to let her kind of -- 15 she's more adept at this than I am, so I'm going to let her 16 kind of talk about it. Then we can go into policy after she's 17 kind of introduced herself to you. 18 MS. PATTERSON: Good morning. As Jeannie said, my 19 name is Linda Patterson, and I spent 20 years in government 20 myself, in Fort Worth and with the state of Texas. I was Fort 21 Worth's city treasurer, and then the deputy state treasurer 22 for the state of Texas under Kay Hutchison. So, my background 23 being public, when I established a firm, we decided to focus 24 strictly on city/county governments, school districts and so 25 forth, and we currently have about $3 billion under 8-27-07 18 1 management. The most important thing is to make sure that you 2 have a good, strong foundation in what you're doing, and make 3 sure that you have good controls in place. And so Jeannie 4 asked me to take a look at your investment policy and make 5 some suggestions to what might be changed to make sure that 6 you have those controls in place and make sure that everybody 7 can sleep and know that even with the markets as we've seen 8 them over the last couple weeks, really jumping around, that 9 you have good, secure investments, good investments that will 10 give you a reasonable yield, because that's very important, 11 since this is an incredibly important asset to you. Second to 12 your employees is your money, and making sure that that money 13 works, and so that's what we do and what I do. And if Jeannie 14 would like, I'll walk through some of the suggestions that I 15 made on your investment policy. 16 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I think we haven't really 17 discussed the policy, so -- did y'all want to go into that, 18 which is the next item on the agenda? Or do you want to talk 19 about -- 20 MS. PATTERSON: Or do you have any questions for me? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell us a little bit more about how 22 you traditionally operate with -- with government entities, 23 how you -- how your compensation is based, what your track 24 record is relative to in-house management by government 25 entities, to the extent that you have that information 8-27-07 19 1 available to you. 2 MS. PATTERSON: Oh, it's -- I live it every day, so 3 it's definitely available to me. Now, what we -- what we do, 4 and in working with the different kinds of entities that we 5 work with, one of our most important things -- and I was 6 talking to Mindy this morning about it -- is that the people 7 that we work with are educated in what we do and why we do it. 8 We always use the in-house people to make sure that we 9 understand your cash flows, and so we -- we work constantly 10 with people inside, but taking away the really more 11 time-consuming parts of investing, plus adding an experience. 12 I've been in the market -- I hate to admit it -- about 30 13 years, so it's -- it's -- we're in there every day. And what 14 we do is work with your internal staff, your Treasurer, your 15 Auditor, to make sure that they understand what's going on in 16 the market without taking a lot of their time. And then we 17 take -- and when you have money available to invest, or when 18 we think -- for instance, right now we're of the opinion that 19 probably the fed will cut, and so it's important right now to 20 make sure that you lock in something at 5 percent rather than 21 slide down with the pools that are very convenient, but not 22 going to be a very good investment for you. So, it's a 23 constant communication situation. 24 But then what we do is, we never touch any entity's 25 money. We never touch your securities. What we do is we 8-27-07 20 1 become your agent in the market. We take care of looking at 2 the market, making our call on what is going to happen with 3 the rates and where you should be investing, when you should 4 be going longer, when you should be going shorter. And 5 sometimes our advice is, you know, just stay in the pool, stay 6 very liquid, stay in the bank. It all depends on what the 7 market is, what's best for you. And then we take care of 8 getting competitive bids, making sure that you're getting the 9 best interest rate that you possibly can. Our scope in what 10 we deal with, obviously, you know, being in the market a long 11 time and having had, luckily, the positions that I've had, and 12 having now $3 billion that we're in and out of the market with 13 all the time, you get the benefit of going in with a 300-pound 14 gorilla, and so we get the best rates for you. We settle the 15 securities. And then what we do on the other side is -- and 16 that's all with the agreement -- with the communication of 17 your staff. And then what we do is settle those securities -- 18 if we end up buying a security, we settle it into your 19 account, so that, again, we don't touch it. 20 One of the other, I think, important things, 21 especially from your viewpoint, is the reporting, because too 22 many times I see entities that are really not getting good 23 information on the portfolio. Really, a consolidated, 24 summarized look at what am I really earning? What does it 25 really look like for liquidity? What kind of diversification 8-27-07 21 1 do I have? And those kinds of things we incorporate. To me, 2 reporting is very critical, and we do monthly reporting, 3 quarterly reporting, your GASB, annual reporting to make sure 4 that the decision-makers, the management, the Court 5 understands what your portfolio is, and if we are and you are 6 fulfilling the goals that you set out first and foremost in 7 your policy. So, it's a full gamut. We just take away the 8 time-consuming thing, which to us is kind of the most 9 important thing, because we're getting the best rates for you, 10 but also providing that information back to you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How are you compensated? 12 MS. PATTERSON: Oh, compensated. I knew there was a 13 question I forgot about. A good one, too. It used -- 14 traditionally, money managers are paid on assets under 15 management, with basis points under management. So, it would 16 be -- for instance, if you're in a money -- money market funds 17 or a mutual fund or someone's managing your own money, they 18 get paid "X" basis points or hundredths of a percent on the 19 assets that you own. After dealing with governmental entities 20 for so long, I have heard so many times that governing bodies 21 don't want to speak basis points, and can't decide how that's 22 going to affect your budget. So, what we normally do is we'll 23 present it both ways, and you can choose it. Present it 24 either as a basis points on assets, which normally is going to 25 be about 7 to 9 basis points, so .0007 to 9 basis points. Or 8-27-07 22 1 what a lot of our clients do is actually go for a set annual 2 rate, so that that annual rate is something that they can 3 budget and understand. And -- and normally, it's much less 4 than you could hire a beginning person for; I'm going to guess 5 about 25,000 to 27,000 a year for a lot of expertise, but also 6 something that you can manage. 7 Now, we do have smaller clients that, what we do is, 8 they don't need us very often, or even large clients. Giving 9 you an example, Nueces County Hospital District. Very large, 10 lots of money, but they don't invest very often; it's 11 long-term money, and they don't want us in there every day. 12 They don't even want us to do the reporting for them. They 13 said, "We can do that. But when we need you, when we're going 14 to make a decision, then we want to be able to call you." So, 15 they keep us on a small retainer so that they have access to 16 us any time they want. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- what is the -- I 18 guess the difference between what your county clients have 19 received versus what you get -- you currently get as just the 20 pool, which you -- 21 MS. PATTERSON: Well, the pool -- okay, all of the 22 pools -- and, actually, I've sat on or managed most of the 23 pools in the state at one time or another, and I truly believe 24 in the pools. But I think right now is an excellent example 25 of why you need diversification and why you need to do more 8-27-07 23 1 than the pools. If, for instance, the fed is going to reduce 2 rates -- and we're all waiting for Friday, going to wait and 3 see what Bernanke says. But the indication is, and you've 4 seen it already this year, the pools have gone from about a 5 5.35, a 5.30 -- you know, they're going down and will continue 6 to go down as there's more anticipation of a rate cut, in 7 which case you are totally at the mercy of short-term rates. 8 You're going to flow with federal funds, because that's how 9 the pools have to invest in order to give you liquidity, so 10 you're going to slide down here. And we did it in 2001, if 11 you remember, at the beginning of 2001. The federal funds was 12 6 and a half percent. At the -- January of 2002, we were at 13 1 percent and stayed there. 14 So, during these periods of time, it's very 15 important that you look at not staying in the pool, but, for 16 instance, we're looking out in the 6-month area right now for 17 a lot of our clients, and we're getting 5 -- oh, 5.10 to 5.20, 18 lock that in. Not going very far. Matching your liabilities, 19 your payrolls, your payables, your debt as much as service, 20 locking that in, and then having those rates stay over a 21 period of time, when if you stayed in the pool, there's no 22 telling this time. I don't believe in the calls for 23 recession, but I think you might very well see federal funds 24 going down to 4 and a half, 4.25. So, you would be locked in 25 at a 5.20, 5.30, instead of following the rates down again. 8-27-07 24 1 Now, when the rates stayed at 1 percent for a long period of 2 time, there was -- there was very little reason not to be in 3 the pool, and we kept a lot of our clients in totally liquid 4 securities. But when there were little moves in the market 5 and we could get above the -- the pool rates, then what we did 6 in the bear market, as the rates went up, then we kept moving 7 out very small steps and moving them up with the yield. 8 You know, the -- I actually wrote the Public Funds 9 Investment Act that controls the -- all of the investments 10 here in the state, and if you read through that -- and it has 11 changed constantly and been refined over the years, but really 12 what we were saying and what investors have to say is, I want 13 the safety. I want to make sure that I preserve that -- that 14 capital and that principal, but I'm not going to ignore a 15 reasonable yield. And a reasonable yield right now is a 5.25. 16 So, I'm going to work the money and make sure that that money 17 is earning at a reasonable rate. The last thing I am 18 suggesting to you is that you go for the gold ring, 'cause 19 that's not where public money belongs. It's not reaching out 20 too far and grabbing -- trying to get a 6 or a 7 when it's not 21 there, but making sure that it's constantly working. I always 22 give people the example of the fact that when I was city 23 treasurer, just by consolidating money and making sure that it 24 was compounding all the time -- 'cause we work a lot with our 25 clients on policies and procedures, internal controls, 8-27-07 25 1 banking, and by doing that you can pick up a lot of yield just 2 because you're being more efficient with your money. You did 3 ask before what -- what kind of result we have, and, of 4 course, I'm S.E.C. registered, and I can't -- any more, I 5 can't give you projections any more; I'm not allowed to do 6 that. But from our history now of almost 14 years as a firm, 7 I could probably tell you that, over that time, we add about 8 three-quarters of a percent to what people had done before and 9 what the pools are doing. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would -- I'm sure you've 11 looked at our financial situation, basically. What would that 12 yield? Let's say three-quarter -- half to three-quarters of a 13 percent, what would that yield, based on the -- 14 MS. PATTERSON: What would that make for you? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MS. PATTERSON: Probably, over a period of a year, 17 probably $70,000 to $80,000 at least. And, there again, it's 18 depending on what -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 20 MS. PATTERSON: -- what the rates are going to do. 21 If we go back down to 3 percent -- knock on wood we don't, 22 but... 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Patterson, you said 24 earlier that you wanted to educate our in-house folks that -- 25 Mindy, as an example. I'm wondering to what extent that 8-27-07 26 1 you're talking about. Just Mindy? Or are we all going to 2 know as much as you do now? Or what -- how does that work? 3 MS. PATTERSON: I can't promise you that. I've been 4 at this a long time. But, actually, what we do a lot of is 5 teach investments, and we know that the best clients we have 6 are educated clients, so we don't just say, "Mindy I think we 7 ought to go out and buy in the 5-year -- in the 5-month area, 8 6-month area." We send out an e-mail every day that takes the 9 information of the market, and instead of just throwing 10 statistics at you that housing starts are there, or employment 11 stats, how this is really going to affect the market. How's 12 this going to affect your portfolio? And then we provide 13 ongoing -- you know, if there's any question that any of your 14 staff have, then they just call us, and -- and we're there to 15 fill in exactly, you know, what's going on or why we made a 16 decision or why we think the cash flow should be this or that. 17 We do a lot of that. In fact, I do a lot of training on-site 18 with all clients, just to make sure that they understand what 19 we're doing. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to follow up on 21 Commissioner Baldwin's question. I think that's an 22 interesting question, too. In my experience on this Court, 23 what we've done in the past is adopt a policy, and then sit 24 back and -- and not very proactive about it, leaving it to the 25 Treasurer. Which we should do, and that's okay, and the 8-27-07 27 1 Auditor. I'd like to know whether or not you can provide us a 2 more continuing review -- periodic review, assessment of where 3 our portfolio is and so forth, and some explanation as to what 4 adjustments you've made and the reasons for. 5 MS. PATTERSON: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that part of your 7 service? 8 MS. PATTERSON: Absolutely. Almost all of the 9 clients that we have, I am on the road a lot because of that. 10 I usually -- most of my clients like to have at least an every 11 six month look with me in front of the Court or the board or 12 commission, and telling you exactly what's happening. And we 13 try with our reports to do that too, so that you see in a 14 graphical manner what's -- what's important. And you're so 15 close, I could actually do it once a quarter. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's your base of 17 operation? 18 MS. PATTERSON: Austin. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Currently, our -- our funds are 21 in TexPool? Is that what are we in right now? 22 MS. PATTERSON: TexPool. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TexPool. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Most of our funds are at Security 8-27-07 28 1 State Bank. They are swept into an investment -- a sweep 2 account every evening. There's -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Patterson, I've got -- 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Sorry. There's a certain amount that 5 stays in the checking account, and anything over that is put 6 into that investment sweep account. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's that sweep account earn? 8 Do you know? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Not right off the top of my head. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Half a point. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe 1 percent. 13 MS. PATTERSON: Well, the sweep, my guess would be 14 about 3 and a half to 4. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Three different areas I'd like to 17 address with you, if I could, please. Number one, I think you 18 mentioned that you provide monthly reports to the Treasurer, 19 the Court, the Auditor and so forth, and as well as recaps on 20 a quarterly, semiannual, and annual basis, I presume? 21 MS. PATTERSON: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The work that you do, that takes some 23 of the workload off of the Treasurer, I assume? 24 MS. PATTERSON: Yes, it does, quite a bit. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I presume because of that, you're 8-27-07 29 1 well received by treasurers when county governments put you on 2 board? 3 MS. PATTERSON: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. PATTERSON: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The third question I have for you is, 7 do you more than earn your keep, or at least earn your keep? 8 MS. PATTERSON: I don't ever -- I don't ever 9 approach an entity unless I think that we can help you. I 10 never do that, because -- and, for instance, very, very small 11 entities, I don't -- you know, I usually do it pro bono, just 12 because I'm a -- I'm a real supporter of local government. 13 But if I don't think that we can help... But I can see what 14 you're doing here. You know, you're not even using the pools. 15 You're in the banks, which is the best -- Mindy's got you in 16 the best bank situation that you can be in. But she also has 17 a lot of other hats to wear. You know, after 20 years in 18 government, I know I never had less than about 10 hats to 19 wear. And so, having us add value in order to watch the 20 markets and give some ideas to her -- and her call is the 21 final call. We don't do anything about the portfolio. In a 22 public setting, I don't believe you can have discretionary 23 management. I think it's always nondiscretionary, because we 24 always have to get the approval from her before anything is 25 done. And so, yes, I think we do add a lot of value. I mean, 8-27-07 30 1 right now we would -- we would have you up around 5 percent, 2 at least. And 1 percent is 1 percent. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And even considering your 4 compensation, the net return to the County is greater than we 5 would normally receive -- and I realize we're speaking in 6 broad brush strokes here. 7 MS. PATTERSON: Right. Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- 9 MS. PATTERSON: But as I said before, it -- it truly 10 is -- you know, over our history, net of our fees, it's about 11 three-quarters of a percent that we add. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions for 13 Ms. Patterson? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is this a service that we 16 would have to go out for proposal on, or is it something we 17 can just do? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: This is -- I think would fall under a 19 professional service. We're looking at requests for 20 qualifications, and I'm going to defer to the County Attorney 21 over here if we -- I may have blindsided him, which, of 22 course, he's used to by now. 23 MR. EMERSON: Well, in this particular instance, I 24 don't know the answer, though. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-27-07 31 1 MR. EMERSON: I think we've addressed this issue 2 once before about two or three years ago. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What have other counties 4 done to acquire your services? 5 MS. PATTERSON: It's about fifty-fifty on cities, 6 counties, school districts, hospitals, airports. Most people 7 consider it a professional service, as you would legal fees, 8 engineering fees, architectural fees, because it is more of a 9 qualification base than it is on a strict bid. So, 10 occasionally we will get somebody who wants to go out to bid, 11 which is fine. You know, we have no problem standing up with 12 our qualifications against anyone. But I would say it's more 13 on the professional service side. 14 MR. EMERSON: My only comment, Judge, would be that 15 the statutes and the Attorney General opinions are real 16 specific on what's professional and what's not. I just -- I 17 couldn't say without going in and looking. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Without researching? Okay. Any more 19 questions for Ms. Patterson? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate -- 22 MS. PATTERSON: You're quite welcome. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you coming here, and we 24 appreciate the benefit of this information. And I'm sure it's 25 something that we're going to seriously consider. 8-27-07 32 1 MS. PATTERSON: Well, and since we -- this is 2 wonderful, because we manage the funds for the city of 3 Kerrville, so it allows me to go down the street and visit 4 with them, too. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Do you have anything else 6 on this particular agenda item, Ms. Hargis? 7 MS. HARGIS: Not on this one, no. I'll have to go 8 to the next one for policy. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, thank you. If nobody else 10 has any more on that, we'll go to the next item. Item 3; 11 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on Kerr County 12 investment policy. Ms. Hargis? 13 MS. HARGIS: I think all of you had the opportunity 14 to have a copy of this draft for a month or so. Your last 15 update, I believe, was 1994, and a lot of laws have changed, a 16 lot of things have changed since then. This pretty much 17 mirrors the law, except that we have put the provision in 18 there that you could hire someone. And -- excuse me -- and 19 covers the scope of our -- your particular funds versus 20 someone else's, because the law has everybody's funds in it. 21 But you want to pretty much mirror the law as much as 22 possible. It also adds the years that you can do it, and the 23 type of investments, so that you -- if you wanted to broaden 24 them, 'cause I have made them very conservative. I am -- and 25 Linda can tell you this, 'cause I've been working with her for 8-27-07 33 1 a long time. I'm not a -- I'm a very conservative investor, 2 and I don't believe in -- in recommending things that are -- 3 that are not safe, so I have limited those type of things. In 4 other words, I don't -- you know, the law says you can go out 5 and buy foreign bonds and corporate bonds and things of that 6 nature. You put in this policy what you think you want to 7 invest in, so that if you want to broaden that, you know, I'll 8 be glad to do that. I'm just not an advocate of broadening it 9 out any more than I think the instruments are safe. And -- 10 and Linda's pretty much looked at those things that I have 11 recommended to you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have a copy of that. 13 Does the Court have a copy? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I know I received a copy several 15 weeks ago, maybe longer than that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 MS. HARGIS: I thought I had -- we had given it, I 18 think, in another agenda. The other thing that we have added 19 in here that wasn't in the '94 law, when you originally did 20 that policy, was the training. The other thing is the 21 designation of your investment officer, which is the 22 Treasurer, and then you have an alternative. Don't really 23 name names, so that it gives you the opportunity to just -- 24 whoever's in that position would be -- assume that position. 25 And pretty much, other than that, I haven't really addressed 8-27-07 34 1 anything that's not currently in the law. But I'd like for 2 y'all to all have a copy of it, and -- but the '94 one was the 3 real basic law. And in 1990 -- I think it was '92, the law 4 came out. 5 MS. PATTERSON: '87. 6 MS. HARGIS: Actually '87, but most people didn't 7 worry about it till '92. And, so, a lot has changed. In 8 fact, I think most legislative sessions, some little tweak 9 changes. So, you're -- the thing with the investment policy 10 is this; that you're -- you're required to have quarterly 11 reports. You're required to review the quarterly reports. 12 The quarterly reports are to be signed by the Treasurer and 13 submitted as part of your minutes. You're to review annually 14 your investment policy. You don't have to change it, but you 15 have to annually review it. And by annually reviewing it, if 16 there are legislative changes or banking changes -- in other 17 words, if you want to broaden your investments and you want to 18 add brokers to your list of investment brokers, then you might 19 make some changes, but usually those are amendments. You 20 don't really have to change the whole policy. But I'm 21 recommending you change the whole policy now, because the 22 other one is so old that it doesn't incorporate the law as it 23 is today. 24 So, this is just something from my practice and 25 something that, you know, I was very well aware of. And one 8-27-07 35 1 of the things that I did in my practice was doing investments 2 for other entities, and when I -- my company became so large, 3 I couldn't do that. And I met Linda probably in 1992. She 4 was a speaker for me at my -- the Texas society, and she began 5 to help me with all my water districts, and it became a real 6 asset to my firm and to my entities because of her 7 availability to go out there and spend the time. Because I 8 had put a staff person that did nothing but call banks every 9 morning, and that becomes very laborious. It also requires a 10 lot of expertise in today's market. I think all of us -- and 11 in as many years as I've been doing it, there's still paper 12 out there that if you ask me what it is, I'm going to draw a 13 blank. And I think that in her report, she will list the 14 portfolio, she will tell you those types of instruments. She 15 gives you the market value. 16 One of the reasons for the Public Funds Investment 17 Act was the -- in Orange County, they bought reverse repo's, 18 and that was what started all of this type of a situation, 19 because Orange County lost a lot of money on those reverse 20 repo's, and the Court said, "We don't -- we never saw what he 21 did, so we don't know." So, the law came back, especially in 22 Texas, and said, "Well, we're going to keep you informed so 23 you can't make that statement." So that you have to have this 24 quarterly report; it needs to be part of your minutes. And I 25 will tell you, I was very -- Linda was already hired when I 8-27-07 36 1 went to the city, and I was excited to get to work with her 2 here as well. And I will tell you that that portfolio 3 increased by $150,000 to $200,000 from the time I went there, 4 and she was there only six months earlier than I was. And -- 5 and so she did a lot of work on their portfolio, and provided 6 a lot of good information. And they also needed to update 7 their -- their policy and procedures. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is -- question. I'm not sure if 9 I've seen this or not; I certainly haven't gone through it in 10 great detail, so I'd rather not act on this today. I'd rather 11 do it at our next meeting, if that's all right. 12 MS. HARGIS: That's fine. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the question I had was, 14 looking through -- glancing through it, this says the 15 Treasurer is authorized by Commissioners Court to do it. Does 16 the Commissioners Court have authority totally for the 17 investments, or is this something that's statutorily under the 18 Treasurer's job description by statute? 19 MS. HARGIS: I'm not real versed in this, since I've 20 only been here a short period of time, but what I've read in 21 my auditor's manual is the Treasurer's responsible for doing 22 the investing, but I think that the ultimate responsibility 23 falls back on the Court. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Court adopts the policy, the 25 Treasurer administers it; is that correct? 8-27-07 37 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 2 MS. PATTERSON: If I might, the act does put the 3 responsibility for the investment and for the transactions on 4 the investment officer; in this case, the Treasurer. But the 5 act also clearly says that the fiduciary responsibility, no 6 matter who's doing it, remains with the Court. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 8 Ms. Hargis. I assume that Ms. Williams, the Treasurer, is on 9 board with this -- 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- policy change? 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And can I also assume that 14 Ms. Patterson has had the opportunity to review our current 15 policy and offer suggestions? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pro bono? 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis, let's pretend 20 that we adopt the policy for -- one year? 21 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that correct? 23 MS. HARGIS: That's right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can -- inside that year, can 25 there be a change to it? As an example, you mention that you 8-27-07 38 1 are a conservative investor. What if we decided in a couple 2 of months that we want to be a little more aggressive? Can 3 you -- can you go in and change -- or is that a policy change? 4 MS. HARGIS: It would be. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really, my question is, can 6 you change the policy before the year -- before the annual 7 review? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes, you can. You just have to review 9 it annually. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: But you can change it monthly if you 12 want to, because it's your policy. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, by the same token, 15 Commissioner, you can make the policy broader, but from a 16 discretionary basis, you don't have to be as broad as the 17 policy is. You can provide for a broader range of investment 18 vehicles or products, but -- but the discretion would be there 19 to go there, but you don't have to go there. I'm -- I'm kind 20 of like Commissioner Letz. Number one, I'd like to get an 21 answer on the issue of whether we must advertise or submit 22 requests for qualifications and so forth, and have an 23 opportunity to look at this a little bit more, and maybe bring 24 both of those items back once we've got those answers, and 25 wrap this whole thing up as a package. And I think that may 8-27-07 39 1 be what Commissioner Letz is going to -- 2 MS. HARGIS: That would be fine. And if you want to 3 look at the act, it is out on the web -- on the internet, the 4 actual Public Fund Investment Act. And I think I've got the 5 chapter referred to in here, so you can just go out online and 6 see that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only other thing to add, I 8 was -- I mean, I don't -- it would be nice to have a clean 9 copy that we could vote on at the next meeting. I assume 10 we're going to go straight with it, rather than a red-line 11 version. So, if you just print one like that, that way we can 12 have an actual version. 13 MS. HARGIS: Well, I had given it to you that way so 14 that if y'all wanted to make any changes, I thought you would 15 have submitted them, 'cause I did give it about a month ago, I 16 think, in some of your packets. But in -- if you're fairly 17 okay with this, or if you'll let me know if there are any 18 changes, or if you want to -- after you look at the act, if 19 you'd like to add -- again, the Judge is very correct, and we 20 found that to be true in all my entities. You need to make it 21 as broad as you think you want to make it. Then you don't 22 have to change it. One of the things we did in the beginning 23 was, it said -- I think it was in '94, where you had to put a 24 list of brokers, and so we ended up putting maybe one bank or 25 two banks, not thinking. And so then, the attorneys all came 8-27-07 40 1 back and put every bank and every type of entity in the world 2 out there that you could use, so that you didn't have to come 3 back and make those changes, because it is rather laborious to 4 do that kind of thing. So, any changes that you have, if 5 you'll just let me know, I'll incorporate those and give you a 6 clean draft. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 10 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. Thank 12 you, Ms. Patterson. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your work on this, 14 Ms. Hargis, and appreciate you being here, Ms. Patterson. 15 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 6, which is a 17 timed item. We're about three minutes late on it now. 18 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on issues 19 involving the tract size, right-of-way dedication, floodplain 20 administration, and review process in the ETJ of the city of 21 Kerrville. Commissioner Baldwin? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. This is a 23 timed issue at 9:47, and we -- we are four minutes behind. I 24 apologize for that. This issue is -- we've been dealing with 25 this for a couple of years, and just recently, some of these 8-27-07 41 1 things that I have listed here have started popping up, and 2 there are some questions back and forth amongst several of the 3 Indians in the community. And -- but when I heard the 4 statement we could possibly -- it could possibly be worse 5 today than it was before we started working on it, that 6 bothered me a little bit, because we're trying to fix 7 something. If we're not -- if we're not moving in the right 8 direction to fix something, I want to back up and try to 9 address a couple of these issues today to maybe get us all 10 along the same page if we possibly could. So, Commissioner 11 Letz, I think -- did you have some comments about the tract 12 size? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a general comment, that 14 the -- kind of the framework of the deal we worked through is 15 before City Council; I believe they approve the second reading 16 tomorrow night. And one of the -- it's taken a long time to 17 get this through, and largely because of the -- I guess the 18 process that the City has versus what the County has. The 19 County has one set of -- our Subdivision Rules and 20 Regulations. We kind of are all-encompassing. The City's is 21 different, and I think it's under a couple of different 22 documents. But I think that the -- I know the -- well, I know 23 the City's representative is here; Mr. Browning's in the 24 audience. And I believe the second reading is on their agenda 25 for tomorrow. Tract sizes, I can go through on that one -- 8-27-07 42 1 and, Mr. Browning, if you'll step in if I'm incorrect on tract 2 sizes -- the City's recommendation to them tomorrow night is 3 to adopt the County's rules 100 percent on tract size. 4 MR. BROWNING: That's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there's no problem with 6 that? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're both using the same rules. 8 MR. BROWNING: Gentlemen, as long as you understand, 9 those are in the ETJ. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 11 MR. BROWNING: And those are lot sizes that are not 12 served by municipal utilities. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about their rural 14 standards only. They have regular standards and a rural set 15 of rules. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, when the -- so, when the 17 City Council adopts a plat, and the lot sizes are on there, 18 they're basically going to be the same as the County's, and -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- they have the authority to 21 do it. And -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- they're off and running. 24 Okay. Right-of-way dedication. The question has come up 25 that -- where this started was out in Kerrville South, there 8-27-07 43 1 is a guy that's redoing his lot, and the property line's 2 always been to the center of the road, and now they want to 3 move the right-of-way line back to where it's supposed to be. 4 And the County's always maintained that road, and the City is 5 approving the plat. So, does the City have the authority to 6 approve new properties for the County? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 MR. BROWNING: No. No, sir, we do not. And -- and 9 the way we -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name for the record. 11 MR. BROWNING: Certainly. My name is Gordon 12 Browning. I work for the City of Kerrville. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Go ahead. 14 MR. BROWNING: And Commissioner Baldwin and 15 Commissioner Letz were involved in a number of these meetings 16 that we had, trying to resolve some of the issues. And the 17 issue of how we are going to handle right-of-way dedication in 18 the ETJ to the county, and how we were going to handle 19 floodplain administration in the ETJ by the county were issues 20 that, unfortunately, have not been totally resolved. This is 21 the first plat under these new review requirements that have 22 indicated a right-of-way dedication. Now, we -- we told the 23 surveyor, take the standard city note off the plat that refers 24 to dedication, because we cannot accept the dedication, and to 25 work out how we were going to handle that. There's a number 8-27-07 44 1 of ways we can do that. We can put a note, at the County's 2 request, on the plat to handle dedication. We can leave the 3 thing platted to the center line of the street. We can show 4 it as an easement. So, what we need to do is work out how the 5 County wants to handle these issues, because this is the -- 6 like I said, the first one, and I think we all know it's not 7 going to be the last one. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 MR. BROWNING: And, unfortunately, the way the state 10 statutes read, where they said one -- one authority will 11 review plats in the ETJ, they didn't address some of these 12 issues either. And I -- and I'm sure that the City of 13 Kerrville and Kerr County are not the only two entities that 14 have had this issue come up. And we're more than willing to 15 sit down and work up something that is going to make the 16 County comfortable, because it's going to be your road. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that, on this 18 one, it would be easier -- I mean, we don't accept, for 19 maintenance anyway, county roads on plats. That's just -- a 20 separate court action does that. We don't -- I mean, we have 21 to specifically accept a road for maintenance. 22 MR. BROWNING: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know why the plats 24 -- you know, leave it off of the city plats. Clearly, the 25 City can't sign for the County. And just put it on the 8-27-07 45 1 Court's agenda if it's a right-of-way issue, that we 2 specifically do it as an agenda item. Doesn't have to be 3 related to the plat, it doesn't seem to me. 4 MR. BROWNING: Well, I wasn't aware that you did two 5 separate -- that you took right-of-way dedications at the 6 court level, as opposed to as a dedication by plat. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We do -- dedications can be on 8 the plat, I guess. But the -- 9 MR. BROWNING: The acceptance. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- acceptance into the county 11 system is a separate action. 12 MR. BROWNING: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, would -- would we prefer 14 easement or ownership? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ownership. 16 MR. BROWNING: I think you want ownership. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's no question about 18 it, but you brought up we could leave it -- 19 MR. BROWNING: I'm just telling you there's a litany 20 of ways that -- that this can be handled, and -- because it's 21 your road. It is your call. And, you know, in this 22 particular case, I think that y'all know that the road's 23 there; you've been maintaining the road. You basically own 24 the road by prescription at the moment. It is just that a lot 25 of these areas in the county are still platted to the center 8-27-07 46 1 line of the road. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's why it seems to 3 me it's a lot simpler to remove it from the platting process, 4 'cause once you get it in part of the patting process, then it 5 has -- our whole set of rules come into play, whereas if we 6 can do it by a specific court action on changing the 7 right-of-way or accepting or not accepting it -- I see the 8 County Attorney raising his hand. 9 MR. BROWNING: We're going to need to show somehow 10 on the plat what is happening to that piece of property. 11 MR. EMERSON: The problem with plats right now is 12 it's -- it's up in the air; it's a gray area. There's 13 conflicting Attorney General opinions out there, and there's a 14 new request that just went in to clarify. And one opinion 15 says that if it's on the plat, whether or not the Court 16 accepts it or not, it becomes a county road, period, for 17 maintenance. And then there's another opinion out there that 18 says that's clearly not the case; the County has to 19 specifically accept it. And there's a request for an opinion 20 that's gone out to clarify that, but we don't have the answer 21 to that. So, it's a mess right now. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- I mean, at the 23 moment -- I mean, notwithstanding what the Attorney General's 24 going to end up saying, my preference would be that we have a 25 separate action that does it, and it's not on the plat, and 8-27-07 47 1 that -- where the City, in the ETJ, can do the platting 2 portion, but then it has to come to the County for a specific 3 action on the road. 4 MR. EMERSON: And that was -- the essence of that 5 comment, basically, was that if it's not on the plat, it helps 6 us clarify things until the Attorney General figures out which 7 side of the road they want to be on. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Typically, our plats have a 9 disclaimer that says a particular road is not accepted into 10 the County's system for maintenance. Will that practice 11 continue? 12 MR. BROWNING: Are you addressing that to me, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess -- 14 MR. BROWNING: Or to the attorney? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, their plats are city 16 plats. They're not our plats. 17 MR. BROWNING: Yeah. They're -- the verbiage is a 18 lot different, and we're looking at different -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How would we get that 20 disclaimer in place? I'll direct that to Commissioner Letz, 21 who's our resident expert. 22 MR. BROWNING: Well, if you wanted to put a note on 23 there that roadways shown are not necessarily -- I don't know. 24 We have to be fairly careful on how we word that. It would -- 25 roadways shown on here do not necessarily become county plats 8-27-07 48 1 by recording -- or county roads by recording of this plat, and 2 maintenance and acceptance is by the Court. I mean, that's 3 why we have attorneys. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MR. BROWNING: Is to work out that kind of stuff. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the idea is a good idea. 7 I think it is probably best to put a note on the city plat 8 that specifically says nothing is -- there's nothing related 9 to the ownership in the county that can happen under this 10 plat. I mean, it's got to come to the County to accept the 11 road, change the right-of-way, to do anything. That has to be 12 a separate action by the County, 'cause the City doesn't have 13 the authority under the statute to accept property for the 14 County, and we don't want you to have that authority. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that -- I agree. And 16 that could also include not only the dedication or the 17 acceptance of the right-of-way, but the inclusion in the 18 county system for maintenance. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All -- everything related to 22 that should be, you know, an exception on the plat -- on the 23 city plat in the ETJ. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Mr. Browning, when -- 25 when a plat appears on your desk -- 8-27-07 49 1 MR. BROWNING: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and you see that it's a 3 County-maintained road or a county road, do you -- do you 4 notify -- are you going to notify the Road and Bridge 5 Department of that? Or -- 6 MR. BROWNING: Yes, sir. I think we're all still 7 learning how to handle -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. That's 9 the reason we're here today. 10 MR. BROWNING: And that is our -- our plan right now 11 is that plats that are in the ETJ, that are not going to be 12 hooked up to municipal sewer or water, are going to be 13 funneled to the Environmental Health officer for septic tank 14 -- to look at it from that standpoint. And roadways, other 15 than just a connection, will be sent -- unless you want that 16 done as well, will be sent to the Road and Bridge folks. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think all of them. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All of them. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them. Any plat in the 20 ETJ needs to be forwarded to the County, just for 21 informational purposes. And that was, I think, part of our 22 original discussion. 23 MR. BROWNING: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then, if there is a road 25 issue, I think a specific note -- or, I mean, cover letter 8-27-07 50 1 alerting them that, hey, there's some -- you know, the County 2 needs to look at the road issue here. Obviously, I think it 3 goes to Environmental Health; they know what their purpose is 4 to look at. And -- but I think that all -- any plat in the 5 ETJ needs to go to both entities so we could update our 6 records so we know what's going on. 7 MR. BROWNING: We can do it as -- we can send them 8 for informational purposes, or specifically noting that they 9 are looking for on-site septic or they are looking for roads 10 to be maintained by the County. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Browning, do city 13 ordinances pertaining to road construction; i.e., gutters and 14 so forth, curbs and gutters, sidewalks, is that going to be 15 the standard? Or are county road standards going to be -- 16 MR. BROWNING: We split the -- we split that, 17 Commissioner. We split that into two parts. If they're in 18 our large lot rural -- rural development area, they're to the 19 county standards, and to smaller subdivisions -- I will give 20 you the example of the one on Goat Creek Cutoff. That was a 21 commercial development started some years ago. We required 22 curb and gutter streets. We are reviewing these ETJ plats as 23 potential future developments inside the city. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a -- they basically 8-27-07 51 1 accepted the County's rules for the roads in the ETJ, and I 2 think ours were a little bit stricter than the City's, their 3 rural standards were. The curb and gutter stays, but there's 4 a waiver process. 5 MR. BROWNING: There's a process to -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To not have to do the curb and 7 gutters. 8 MR. BROWNING: There's also a waiver process for 9 sidewalks and a number of things for the large lot 10 developments. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that's an area that 12 they know -- the City knows that I was uncomfortable with. I 13 mean, but I understood their point of view as well. I mean, I 14 -- you know, as long as they're reasonable in the waiver 15 process, I'm okay with that process. But if they start 16 getting unreasonable, I think we have to look at this again. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we move to floodplain 18 administration? 19 MR. BROWNING: Absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One comment first. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've heard just a little bit 23 of -- of news, I guess, of the platting thing, and especially 24 those plats being reviewed in a timely manner, or the County 25 timely reviewing them. They've been late. I know of one that 8-27-07 52 1 just happened. 2 MR. BROWNING: One that just happened. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And, you know, it's not fair 4 for the County -- 5 MR. BROWNING: No, sir, it's not. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- to be put on the spot for a 7 two- or three-day review whenever it specifies a much longer 8 time frame. 9 MR. BROWNING: We accept that responsibility. We 10 have, under statutes, 30 days to review a plat. And I have a 11 schedule worked out where everybody gets them the exact -- 12 you're exactly right; this one fell through the crack. We 13 have two more plats that came in last week that will involve 14 County review, and they'll be out either today or tomorrow. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How is the floodplain 17 administration program working in the ETJ? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody happy? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. At the moment, the County's 21 doing the ETJ. Len's doing the ETJ. Len gave me a -- a Xerox 22 copy of something that says that -- and I don't know if it was 23 new or old, and I haven't really gotten the time to look into 24 it -- that the City can handle the floodplain determination in 25 the ETJ. I haven't looked into that or talked to Rex about 8-27-07 53 1 it, but Len seems to think that, and if that's the case, I 2 think that should be added to it. I think the City should do 3 it in the ETJ, just from the standpoint of the one-stop 4 shopping. But it's just a matter of checking out the legality 5 of that, making sure -- and, you know, Len -- I forgot what 6 bill it was. I don't -- you know, Len gave me that 7 information. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, especially being as a 9 lot of the ETJ will become part of the city, and if you don't 10 address those floodplain issues at that level, then you have 11 conflicts there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, the more the 13 City can do in the ETJ, if we're going to let the City be the 14 one to administer that, the better, in my mind. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you agree with that? 16 MR. BROWNING: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 MR. BROWNING: Do you? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do. Very much so. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very much so. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Boy, we're happy today. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, this is a love-fest. 24 (Laughter.) You remember, now, you walked up there on your 25 own. Nobody told you to come to that podium. 8-27-07 54 1 MR. BROWNING: Yes, sir. I thought it was better 2 than to sit back and... 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true. You know, 4 I appreciate you being here. Thank you. 5 MR. BROWNING: You bet. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Voelkel? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Don, you had an issue? 8 MR. DON VOELKEL: If you have a plat that's going to 9 be public roads -- I know on private roads in the ETJ, no one 10 accepts maintenance or dedication, so if we have a public road 11 in the ETJ and we submit plats and have them approved by the 12 City, but there's no dedication, do we need -- then need to 13 bring the plat to the County to get approved? Or are you just 14 going to do it by order that since the plat's been approved 15 and recorded, then y'all accept the dedication, but not 16 maintenance, and so it's -- 17 MR. BROWNING: You're talking about a brand new 18 road? 19 MR. VOELKEL: Right, that has to be dedicated to 20 public. Not a private road. But if the City's process does 21 not have that dedication as part of that plat, can -- what's 22 the process? That's just my question. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be -- it's 24 cleaner that way, a better trail. It's a little bit more 25 work, obviously, for the developer. I mean, I'm not as much 8-27-07 55 1 concerned about if it's a public road as if it's a 2 County-maintained road. My big concern is, I don't want a 3 County-maintained road accepted by the City. So -- or by 4 their platting process. 5 MR. DON VOELKEL: But either way, the dedication 6 doesn't happen till y'all dedicate it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that it needs to be a 8 separate -- I think a separate action by the Court. 9 MR. DON VOELKEL: So, we -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But not the plat. We don't -- 11 you don't bring the plat back. You just bring a court order. 12 MR. DON VOELKEL: So, we get the plat approved 13 through the city staff, through Gordon, and then once it's 14 platted, then we get on the agenda to dedicate the streets? 15 Does the dedication happen right when that plat happens, or do 16 we wait a year when the maintenance kicks in? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't ask these detailed 18 questions. 19 MR. DON VOELKEL: See, we're doing it; we got to 20 know what -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Len, when do we do it? The 22 County -- I mean, is it a year after the maintenance? 23 MR. ODOM: Year after the maintenance. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it'd be the same as we do 25 on -- 8-27-07 56 1 MR. DON VOELKEL: The dedication happens a year 2 after the plat is processed? 3 MR. ODOM: No, I accept it. 4 MR. BROWNING: Y'all have to accept the dedication 5 initially, and then accept the maintenance of the road, then, 6 I guess a year later. Is that how it works? 7 MR. DON VOELKEL: That's the way it's going right 8 now. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 MR. DON VOELKEL: But that's what my question is, is 11 if we go to Gordon and get a plat approved, and there's a 12 public road in the ETJ that's a new road, then the next step, 13 I guess, would be coming to the Court -- and say we have the 14 plat approved. We need to get a court order to approve the 15 dedication only, not the maintenance -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. DON VOELKEL: -- of these new roads. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- 19 MR. DON VOELKEL: Is that -- does that sound like 20 what y'all are -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds to me like you give -- 22 the County and the City both review it at the same time, and 23 you make that determination, you know, up front when you're 24 doing your -- when you're doing your preliminary plat process. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what we're trying to 8-27-07 57 1 avoid, is having both parties review all these plats. We're 2 trying to let the City do it. And assuming that the City's -- 3 we've agreed on the road construction, and if the City accepts 4 it, we just have -- we're assuming that the City inspected the 5 roads, it was built to the standards that we are willing to 6 accept. So that -- I mean, I think once we get it into our 7 platting process, it causes a lot of extra work for the 8 developer, which we're trying to get out of. That's why we 9 just do a court order -- even though it's another two weeks 10 later, do a court order, and then you can attach just a 11 statement that this has been approved by the City. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there is one other 13 element; I think we've had some experience on that recently in 14 both Precincts 1 and 2, and that is a review of plats that are 15 situated both inside and outside the ETJ. Can we talk about 16 that for a moment? 17 MR. BROWNING: Certainly. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ball's in your court. 19 MR. BROWNING: Well, sir, my understanding -- and, 20 again, I fall to our attorney's understanding -- of the way 21 the statute was written, was that the City had or could have 22 the authority to review plats in the ETJ. That review 23 authority would stop at that ETJ line. And in those 24 instances, as much as one hates to be -- feel sorry for a 25 developer, he will have to go through both processes, because 8-27-07 58 1 the County will have to look at the portion that is outside 2 the ETJ and not -- and in the county. Now, again, this cannot 3 be the only -- the only two entities that have faced this 4 dilemma. And is there a way, in the case of a development -- 5 the subdivision Las Colinas comes to mind as a perfect 6 example, to where that was being developed as a single-unit 7 development. Could those not be transferred one to the other 8 through some kind of an agreement or understanding, if it's 9 legal? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We tried -- originally, in the 11 first one of our meetings, we said if it's more than 12 50 percent in the ETJ, the City would handle it; if it's more 13 than 50 percent outside the ETJ, the County would handle it. 14 But the attorneys, I think, in the City and the County both 15 agreed that that's not what the statute said we could do. So, 16 I mean, it kind of has to go through both processes. You 17 know, only -- the only way to solve that is to, down the road, 18 put it in the county. If the County was the party doing it, 19 the County has authority in the county, and the -- you know, 20 but that's not the way we chose to set it up originally. And 21 I think -- you know, I sure hate to go back and try to redo 22 that at this time. I think maybe we can look at this a lot 23 closer when the city's population tops 25,000 and their ETJ 24 goes to 2 miles, because that really changes -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 8-27-07 59 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- how they're going to handle 2 it. So I think, for the time being, we just leave it the way 3 it is, rather than try to go back and reinvent the wheel again 4 and delay it another two years. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which leaving it as it is 6 means that there is a dual review? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One way to handle the -- the 10 review thing for the County's purpose, I guess, would be that 11 if there were going to be a road that was going to be taken 12 over for maintenance by the County, that would trigger an 13 automatic review whenever the platting process is -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, the problem -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- in the beginning stages. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, the problem is, that's 17 contrary to state law. The state law says we have to come up 18 with one system for the ETJ, and it can either be ours, 19 theirs, or a hybrid. And we're kind of -- well, we're 20 doing -- we're creating a hybrid. The City's changing theirs 21 to be a hybrid. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think just asking for review 23 would be a conflict. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can review it, but 25 can't go through the -- once they're in our platting process, 8-27-07 60 1 then all this other stuff gets thrown in there, drainage and 2 all that -- you now, all that stuff. And that's kind of what 3 we're trying to get away from. I think what can happen if 4 it's in the -- going back to Bill's question, if it straddles 5 the line, like Las Colinas, what, in reality, happened, 6 because -- is that the City handled it all, and then at the 7 very end had to come to the County for review and acceptance 8 also. And I think that we may be able to modify our rules to 9 let those come through with one -- pass through the 10 Commissioners Court. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which we did. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, which is what we did 13 there. And just -- the City would be doing the work, but the 14 plat -- the final plat would have to go through both entities. 15 So we don't have -- 'cause I think it's very confusing for the 16 developer to have to be talking both to Gordon and Len during 17 the construction and all that. I mean, okay, this piece of 18 the road needs to be inspected by the County; this piece needs 19 to be inspected by the City. I think it's much better to let 20 it go through the city system as an ETJ, and then the final 21 plat has to come to the County. That's the way it's going to 22 be. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they adopt our rules, it's 24 pretty well solved the problem as far as your -- your 25 specifications and stuff for -- 8-27-07 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got right-of-way 2 dedication and then this recent issue, like with -- outside 3 the ETJ, like Las Colinas. That's the only two things that I 4 can think of, and it's really not that painful, I don't think, 5 for somebody to walk in here for five minutes and get that. 6 If the law says that the City cannot accept county property, 7 then they got to walk in here and do it. It's just simple as 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we can come back in and do a 10 change similar to what we're recommending later on today; just 11 add it on the ETJ language that final plats in the ETJ where 12 they -- part of the property is in the county outside the ETJ, 13 it comes through at one meeting. They only have to do a final 14 plat on it. They don't have to do a preliminary plat, a 15 concept plan, or a -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause the City's already 17 done all the inspections and all that stuff already anyway. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think there's going to be 19 some communication back and forth when that preliminary plat 20 originally comes over to the County. If it's like -- you 21 know, half of it's in the ETJ, I think the communication needs 22 to go on between our department and Gordon's as to how it's 23 going to be handled. I think we have to look at them case by 24 case. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have all the answers you want, 8-27-07 62 1 Commissioner? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By gosh, I got more than I 3 was counting on. Anything else, Leonard? Did you have 4 anything that you wanted add to this? 5 MR. ODOM: No. Y'all have covered -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the County Surveyor's 7 here with his hand up. 8 MR. LEE VOELKEL: Just one other issue. It's not 9 listed here, so we may not be able to talk about it, but I 10 thought since we had the benefit of Gordon here to explain how 11 drainage is being handled in the ETJ properties -- are we 12 using the County's drainage rules, or -- 13 MR. BROWNING: We -- in the -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Wait. The 15 attorney's saying no, we're not going to talk about it today. 16 Thank you, Gordon, for coming. 17 MR. BROWNING: No, not a problem. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate it. 19 MR. BROWNING: You bet. I may stick around and see 20 what else y'all are doing. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it's ugly. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just a general statement; 23 we're using the County's. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all. Thank you very 25 much for the time. 8-27-07 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other member of the Court 2 have anything further on that one? Let's move to Item 4; 3 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to renew the 4 appointment of Hugh Jons to the 911 Board of Governors -- or 5 Board of Managers. Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. It is 7 that time. Mr. Jons' term is up this -- this September. He 8 phoned me and asked that he would -- if we'd please renew him; 9 that he enjoyed his work there. And I talked with 10 Mr. Amerine. He says that Mr. Jons is a huge benefit to the 11 Board of Managers at 911. So, with that, I move that we 12 reappoint Hugh Jons to the 911 Board of Managers. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 15 indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of that 16 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 21 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 22 approve the 2007 audit engagement letter from Pressler 23 Thompson Company and authorize County Judge to sign the same. 24 Ms. Hargis? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. I think all of you have a copy of 8-27-07 64 1 the -- of the letter. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 MS. HARGIS: Part of it is boilerplate, but then the 4 expansion section is the section that we talked about at the 5 prior meeting, is to expand the scope. Most of the other 6 stuff is pretty much required for an auditor to give to you. 7 But under the audit procedures on -- I believe this is, like, 8 Page 3, under Expanded Scope, that those are the things that I 9 asked him to expand on. And if there's anything else you want 10 me to put in here, you know, that's kind of what I need. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are suggestions you 12 made to the audit firm? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why only just Precincts 3 and 4? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the question I wanted 17 to ask. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but I was named. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Withdraw it. He can ask it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not withdrawing it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's his precinct. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's his precinct, that's 23 right. Go ahead. 24 MS. HARGIS: I don't know. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it should be all of 8-27-07 65 1 them. 2 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it does. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, let's do them all. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Now you can ask about 1 and 2. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you my feelings on 7 the thing; I'll just jump out there. I'm not willing to go 8 with the same firm again. We've had this firm, I believe, 14 9 years. There's been lots of problems that have come up in the 10 -- since January; actually, started long before January 1. 11 And the last meeting, when we discussed this, we talked -- we 12 were talked to about, well, it's too late now to go out, and 13 nobody else -- but why was it too late? Why was this not 14 brought up early enough on to go out for -- for a proposal or 15 qualifications for a new auditor? And I will not support 16 this, and I'll probably be outvoted, but I don't care. I 17 think it's wrong, and we've been with this firm too long. 18 No -- no bad feelings toward them at this time, but I do not 19 feel that they have done us a good job like I would expect if 20 we had a new firm come in and do an audit. And I think we're 21 at the point where, with all the other things we've had -- the 22 issues since I've been here since January, the problems that 23 have been pointed out with various departments, and audits of 24 those departments, I just -- I'm not going to go for it, clear 25 and simple. 8-27-07 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Commissioner, I tend to 2 agree with you. And I -- just for your information, I don't 3 think that we should stop with just the audit. I think we 4 need to look at our banking, we need to look at our insurance; 5 we need to look at absolutely everything. I think it's that 6 time -- we're in that season to take a look at everything. 7 And I don't know that I'll vote against this, but I do know 8 that I'm very hesitant to vote for it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- as I recall, the 10 suggestion last time was that -- you know, is that there's one 11 -- well, I agree with you, we need a change. I said that last 12 time, but I think that the -- you know, the reality is, no one 13 on this Court put this on the agenda to change it, and now we 14 got to the deadline that -- you know, it certainly can't be -- 15 the auditor wasn't here. So, the -- this should have been 16 addressed earlier. It's this body's responsibility to get it 17 addressed earlier. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Normally, the auditor of 19 record is the one that used to bring this forward in a timely 20 manner, and that did not happen this year. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't disagree with 23 you -- your concern, and I believe I probably am the one that 24 brought this to the Court several months ago, that it's timely 25 to make a change. And had it not been for a change in audit 8-27-07 67 1 -- auditors and all that's entailed in that, I probably would 2 have insisted on that. But -- and I would not have voted for 3 the standard letter of engagement had it not included the 4 expanded scope, because the expanded scope deals with some of 5 the issues that have been of concern. And while this is 6 couched in auditor's language, and sometimes difficult for a 7 mere human to decipher, I believe that we're talking about 8 controls. Am I correct, Ms. Hargis? 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that being the case, 11 then, I -- I would go along with -- with it, knowing that we 12 will change auditors and put an RFQ out for the audit for the 13 ensuing year. 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes, and I've already contacted several 15 audit firms to try to get them to be -- across the state, to 16 get them to be willing to -- to do that. And most of them 17 have already made their schedules, and I did contact about 18 five different firms, some of which were given to me, their 19 names, some of them which I knew. And, unfortunately, they 20 schedule their -- their audits pretty far out, and there's so 21 many 9/30's. If -- if we had even a 12/31 deadline, it would 22 be a little easier. But most governmental entities are at 23 9/30, so it makes those firms that specialize in this type of 24 business pretty thin. But, you know, if -- if the Court 25 decides they want to do something else, I'll do what you want 8-27-07 68 1 me to do. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would offer one other 3 change, Ms. Hargis. Under the Expanded Scope, where you talk 4 about Ag Barn, that's a generic reference. I think the 5 reference should be that we will look at the facilities 6 booking activities, because it involves more than just the Ag 7 Barn, and receipts of -- we have more than one facility. So, 8 I'd like to see it changed to "facilities booking" as opposed 9 to just Ag Barn. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The specific -- the facilities, 11 you're looking at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and 12 Union Church. That would work. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just amazing, we get all these 14 proposals for changing the process. I think that's a 15 wonderful thing, but why hasn't it been done before now? All 16 of a sudden, wow, we see there's a problem. Somebody jumps up 17 and, wow, you -- we need to look at all these things. You 18 know, that's all fine and good, but why couldn't it have been 19 looked at years before, I guess is my question. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the next paragraph also, 21 Commissioner, instead of "in the County Clerk's," should it 22 not read, "for the County Clerk's office"? And the same for 23 the next -- "for" the District Clerk's Office. Just being 24 picky here. And in the Tax Office, "for" the Tax Office. In 25 the Treasurer's office. Just being grammatically picky. 8-27-07 69 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's amazing to me that all 2 this stuff wasn't done on common practice, rather than a newly 3 added way they're going to do the audit. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I -- I'm compelled to 5 share some of your sentiments. This appears to be somewhat of 6 an exercise in closing the gate after the cows got out, but 7 unfortunately, we can't change yesterday's news. Best we can 8 do is to try and make tomorrow's news better. So, we are 9 where we are, and that's unfortunate. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the audit 11 engagement letter as amended. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second for 14 approval, as indicated. Any further question or discussion on 15 that motion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, whose -- whose cows 17 are you referring to? Are they our cows? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Among others, yes. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably mine; they're out all 20 the time anyhow. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are they Letz' cows? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment I'd like -- I 23 think that it -- one thing I've learned from this process and 24 from some of the problems we've had is that we need to pay a 25 lot more attention to the engagement letter in the future, and 8-27-07 70 1 make sure that we -- because it -- we kind of looked at it -- 2 always looked at them as kind of boilerplate, and that didn't 3 work. I think we really need to look very carefully. There 4 is a lot -- you know, obviously, it's very, very important, 5 one of the most important things we do. And I think we need 6 to do a better job of really making sure that we're getting 7 our money's worth. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That we're doing it correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to make one 11 more comment, that I agree with Commissioner Williams; that 12 I'm going to vote in the affirmative, but we're going to take 13 a long, hard, close look at it next year. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to change next 16 year. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to change. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we need to be reminded of 19 what time of year that is so we don't fall late again? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, that's a good -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The process could not be done 22 correctly. 23 MS. HARGIS: I've already asked most of the -- of 24 the auditors that I have asked if they would be willing, I 25 have sent a copy of the current audit and said we will have 8-27-07 71 1 those in the spring, so that you will have plenty of 2 opportunity to review those before we have to make a decision. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very good. 4 MS. HARGIS: March is my -- my goal right now. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll bring it back to the Court in 6 March? 7 MS. HARGIS: We'll bring some names to you possibly 8 in February, and then have the presentations in March, and 9 then that'll give you an opportunity to have -- to review 10 their qualifications and decide which firm that you want to 11 use. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And that'll be timely, and insofar as 13 having the maximum number of firms that do these kinds of 14 audits available to you? 15 MS. HARGIS: Right. And by notifying them now of 16 that, they can put them in their schedule, and that's what I'm 17 asking them to do. And I'm going to try to get some 18 additional names when I go to my governmental session on the 19 15th of September. I -- actually, it's on Monday, the 17th, 20 and see if there's any other firms there that would like to 21 come. And I'm going to try to get you as many names as 22 possible. I'm not as familiar with the names on this side of 23 the state as I am on the Houston side, but it's much cheaper 24 to say -- because they're going to travel. We need them to 25 be, you know, on this side of the state, the western side of 8-27-07 72 1 the state. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment on the 3 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 4 right hand. 5 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.) 8 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's take 10 about a 15-minute recess. 11 (Recess taken from 10:31 a.m. to 10:51 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we 14 might. Let's move to Item 7; consider, discuss, and take 15 appropriate action to accept the resignation of Precinct 1 16 Justice of the Peace effective as of close of business on 17 August 31, 2007. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of the 21 agenda item. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval 24 of the agenda item. Any question or discussion? All in favor 25 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8-27-07 73 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 5 to Item 8; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 6 appoint a new Justice of the Peace for Precinct 1. 7 Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. First of 9 all, I want to say that we are -- we live in a blessed 10 community. When the word got out that there would -- we would 11 be appointing a new Justice of the Peace, you can see by the 12 resumes we have in our packet the quality of folks that showed 13 an interest in it. And it's kind of difficult when you -- 14 when you have that quality of a person or a group of persons 15 with that quality, to select one out of it. And -- but I 16 personally have -- have done that. I've made a choice, and I 17 want to make a recommendation to the Court. But before I do, 18 I want -- is there any reason anyone would like to go and talk 19 about some of these things in executive session or not? I 20 don't see that, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with your comments. 22 Great candidates. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They are great candidates, 24 and it was somewhat of a difficult decision. But, in my mind, 25 one person rose above the rest of them, and that's because of 8-27-07 74 1 the experience in this particular field, the work he has done 2 in this particular field. I talked with the present Justice 3 of the Peace the other day, and he made the comment to me that 4 Constable Billeiter appears in all of his courtrooms and 5 watches and works at it, and learning, and, you know, he put 6 -- put a great deal of effort into -- into that process. So, 7 with that, I move that we appoint David J. Billeiter to fill 8 the unexpired term of J.P. Precinct 1. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 11 appointment as indicated. This will be until the next general 12 election, I believe. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The way the law reads. Any question 15 or discussion on that motion? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a comment. I think 17 Commissioner Baldwin's analyzed it very carefully and well. 18 There was a fine group of resumes turned in, and people 19 showing an interest in that, and I thank them for submitting 20 their resumes and exhibiting a willingness to be involved in 21 county government. My experience in watching Constable 22 Billeiter is that he has a tremendous dedication to youth and 23 to try to keep youth going in the right direction, and for 24 that I commend him. I think the choice is good, Commissioner. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 8-27-07 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Further questions or comments, et 2 cetera? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, when's the next appointment 4 come up? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll talk about that in just 6 a minute. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Judge 13 Elliott? 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yes, sir. You know, we spend 15 thousands of dollars training justices of the peace, and I 16 just wanted to leave with the Commissioners Court a training 17 manual for the new Justice of the Peace, the Judge Roy Bean 18 Country. (Laughter.) This is the way it should always be. 19 Here's the Judge Roy Bean Almanac. And instead of going to 20 Austin, they could go out to Langtry. And this is a critical 21 training that every J.P. should have first, and I wanted to 22 leave that with y'all to pass along to the new justice of the 23 peace. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good of you, Justice. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Judge Elliott. 8-27-07 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has been. 2 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Hey, I could still put a warrant out 3 for you, Commissioner. (Laughter.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Until close of business. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Sure nice to see you 6 again. Now -- now we have the dilemma of having an open 7 constable seat. So, if you all and the press would assist us 8 in -- in asking people that have an interest in being the 9 constable of Precinct 1, my -- I'm just -- my thinking is -- 10 is that we leave that slot open for two weeks to give the 11 public an opportunity to come in and turn a resume in or 12 however they want to handle it. Hopefully, the -- hopefully, 13 the other constables will pick up -- pick up the slack for 14 J.P. 1 in that two-week period. If not, they should. So, 15 that's all I got to say about that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're welcome. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 9; consider, 19 discuss, and take appropriate action to use budgeted funds 20 from the account 15-611-552, Emulsion Oils, after October 1, 21 2007. Mr. Odom? 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I am advised by the Auditor that that 24 manner -- that matter can be handled by you counting that work 25 as an encumbrance on the '06-'07 budget. I had thought it was 8-27-07 77 1 for up to 30 days. Actually, they advised for up to 60 days. 2 MR. ODOM: 60 days. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And as long as you turn that in as an 4 encumbrance to the '06-'07 budget, I think you're okay. 5 MR. ODOM: Good. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't have anything to 7 do with when the work actually begins? Doesn't it have to 8 begin in '06-'07 budget? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he's got it planned in the 10 '06-'07 budget. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's close enough. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see it makes any 13 difference one way or the other. If the Auditor has a problem 14 with it, we just roll it -- I mean, just -- it goes into 15 reserves and you take it and you increase your budget for next 16 year. 17 MR. ODOM: Next year. Well, I just wanted to bring 18 it up, you know, to the -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way works for me. 20 MR. ODOM: That's fine. That's -- we're going to -- 21 it's not saying that -- we're not through sealing, but we've 22 had a lot of flooding and distractions on roads that we do not 23 maintain and everything else, trying to help everybody, so 24 we're running behind. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-27-07 78 1 MR. ODOM: So, thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. ODOM: That takes care of that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize. It was just called to 5 my attention that we have a timed 10:30 item, being Item 14, 6 that I should have taken up first. Let me go straight to 7 that. Item 14, consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 8 on delinquent tax notices. Commissioner Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I had a 10 constituent come by a couple of weeks ago -- almost two and a 11 half weeks ago with an issue that I'm not even going to begin 12 to try to explain. So, I've asked my constituent, John Pike, 13 to come here and explain, and when he gets to the bit, y'all 14 may want to get under the table. It could be a little bit 15 unsafe out here. But he can explain it better than anybody, 16 'cause it actually happened to him. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Pike, let me first apologize for 18 not bringing that item up immediately after we came back from 19 the break. It was a timed item, and I apologize. I just 20 missed it. 21 MR. PIKE: That's no problem at all. Good morning. 22 The purpose for me being here this morning, as Buster has 23 pointed out, is I'm seeking assistance of you people to remove 24 a bogus tax lien against my home that shouldn't exist. In 25 other words, it was based on a tax delinquency, and I've never 8-27-07 79 1 had a tax delinquency, ever, against this property or any 2 property that my wife and I own here in this county, or any 3 county in the state of Texas or anyplace else. I was 4 obviously a little shocked when I got this letter from a law 5 firm in Austin -- can you hear me? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 8 MR. PIKE: Okay. Saying that the Kerr County Tax 9 Collector had placed a tax lien against my home, and turned it 10 over to their office for collection. This apparently was done 11 because of some expediency in trying to process the legitimate 12 tax delinquencies on this thing. So -- but the problem is 13 that the -- the quarterly paying taxpayers' accounts and the 14 legitimate delinquent payers is all mixed together in the 15 computer, and the computer does not differentiate one from the 16 other. Now, where this thing got off track is when the Tax 17 Collector decided to issue these delinquency notices prior to 18 the deadline or the due date for the quarterly taxpayers. Do 19 you understand that? Nobody ever puts out a delinquency 20 before the deadline or the due date for any account. And when 21 she did that, that kicked these things in and caused these 22 things to go to -- to Austin for collection. And I can 23 understand her urgency on the -- the legitimate delinquency, 24 but that does not justify putting out a bunch of bogus tax 25 liens against several people here in the county on this thing. 8-27-07 80 1 This is ridiculous. So, I spent two and a half weeks working 2 with a couple of County Commissioners, several discussions 3 with the County Attorney trying to get some action taken on 4 this thing, and I haven't been able to get anyplace as far as 5 getting anything in writing so far. 6 Now, what I've been told is that this new software 7 that's supposed to correct this problem and be able to 8 separate the -- the legitimate tax delinquencies from the 9 bogus tax -- or the people who are not delinquent has finally 10 been processed, but it's been in -- lack of funds, I guess, 11 for over a year now? They couldn't get this thing done, which 12 is ridiculous. And now they need this thing to separate these 13 things so they can identify them, which, in my mind, is not 14 necessary, because everybody who got a delinquent notice 15 that's bogus took it to the Tax Office, presented it to them 16 along with their receipt showing that they weren't delinquent, 17 so they already kicked them out in that manner, and something 18 should have been taken. But, nevertheless, we've had to go 19 through this two-and-a-half week process thing. 20 Now, I -- I will digress here for just a moment to 21 make an observation. There's obviously a problem there in the 22 tax department. I understand that when the County hires an 23 employee, that employee has a supervisor that can do 24 evaluations, perform an appraisal, provide assistance, and get 25 corrections to take place. However, if somebody's elected, 8-27-07 81 1 then that person is a separate entity with no supervision, and 2 that doesn't make any sense, especially when you got a 3 department that does 50 or 100 financial transactions every 4 single day. So, that's -- so, obviously, there's an entity of 5 authority here someplace, because they've -- somebody around 6 here approved the funds to get that updated -- that software 7 updated, and somebody approved the appointment of this new tax 8 collector to replace the former tax collector. So, I would 9 assume this same authority could put together, say, a two-man 10 ad hoc committee that can provide oversight to this department 11 down there and sit down with them periodically and say, you 12 know, "What are your problems? What are the deficiencies here 13 in the system? What kind of funds do you need? How can we 14 run the thing?" At least that's the way to manage it, not to 15 do it here in this court or in the newspaper. But that's 16 what's happened in this thing so far. 17 So, what I'm asking is that the bogus tax lien 18 against my home be removed immediately, that the computer be 19 expunged so it does not make any reference to there having 20 been a tax lien against my property. In other words, I don't 21 want to look in two or three months and find out where there 22 was a tax lien against my property in July, but it was removed 23 in September, indicating that it was a legitimate tax lien and 24 I did something to correct it, to get it removed. And 25 furthermore, I'd like in that letter a statement where they 8-27-07 82 1 have not just assumed, but they have checked and confirmed 2 that there's been no late tax payment or late payment reported 3 to any of the three credit bureaus that might affect my credit 4 rating. So, that's why I'm here this morning, to get 5 something done on that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Several things about this 7 that bother me. Thank you, Mr. Pike, for being here, and 8 thank you, Commissioner, for putting it back on the agenda. 9 Mr. Pike visited with me, as he did with Commissioner Baldwin, 10 and others have visited with me; I've had phone calls about 11 this, and I visited with the Tax Assessor/Collector. I was 12 intending to put this on the agenda two weeks ago for an open 13 discussion, and I was asked by the Tax Assessor not to do 14 that, that the problem was being rectified. I'm concerned 15 because I'm getting conflicting stories. I think Commissioner 16 Baldwin's getting the same conflicting stories. We were told 17 that it's a software problem. Then we're told that it's not a 18 software problem; it's been fixed, and -- but we didn't know 19 it, and so forth and so on. That's one element that deals 20 with the fact that you got a delinquent tax notice that led to 21 a notice of tax lien, and so that has to be corrected, and 22 we'll ask Mr. Trolinger to talk about that in a minute, 23 because I think he's done some research into it. He's our 24 I.T. guy. The other part of this that bothered me is that we 25 were also told that the delinquent notices -- that a letter 8-27-07 83 1 would go out from the Tax Assessor/Collector correcting the 2 fact that you got a delinquent tax notice and telling you that 3 that was in error, and that it would be expunged from the 4 record, eliminating any potential for penalties and so forth. 5 But of equal, if not greater importance, that a letter was 6 supposed to go out listing all of those of you who've got 7 these notices to the attorney in Austin -- law firm in Austin 8 that does this work for us, telling them to hold off; there is 9 no reason to file tax lien notices, and to expunge that or to 10 back away from that process. As we speak this morning, I 11 don't think any of that's been done, has it, Mr. Pike? 12 MR. PIKE: Not to my knowledge. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. PIKE: It's been two and a half weeks. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, these are things we need 16 to get taken care of. And it is not only a concern of this 17 gentleman, but it's a concern of many others who got these tax 18 notices incorrectly. 19 MR. PIKE: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It needs to be taken care of 21 now. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the question I have, and 23 it's probably to the County Attorney, who -- I don't know that 24 we have authority, the Commissioners Court, to direct the Tax 25 Assessor to send that letter. If we do, it should -- I 8-27-07 84 1 don't -- I suspect we don't have that authority, but I think 2 we certainly -- you know, how can this Court be assured that 3 that letter, the way we want it to read, goes out, I guess is 4 the question? 5 MR. EMERSON: I think the limit of your authority, 6 Commissioner, is to draft a resolution by the Commissioners 7 Court requesting the Tax Assessor to do those things. I don't 8 think you have the authority to go down there and hold her 9 hand and make her do it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can pass a resolution. Can 11 we -- and I don't know if any of the -- of these liens have 12 gotten into the -- the land records or not, which would be my 13 worst fear, and your worst fear. 14 MR. PIKE: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we -- what can we do in that 16 regard to halt any of those liens from being filed or accepted 17 by the County Clerk? Or can -- is there anything? 18 MR. EMERSON: I think, technically speaking, the law 19 firm in Austin is probably working on a contract with the 20 County, and I think it is within the authority of this 21 Commissioners Court to send a letter to the law firm in Austin 22 directing them to cease and desist. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I got a -- a telephone message from 24 the tax attorney in Austin, and in that message, the tax 25 attorney accepted responsibility for this snafu, and indicated 8-27-07 85 1 that their office would be sending out to each affected 2 taxpayer a letter of apology. Now, I don't recall that -- 3 that there was a specification of what was going to be in that 4 letter, but I -- Mr. Pike, I think your request is -- is 5 reasonable and it's appropriate. And -- and neither you nor 6 any of the other taxpayers that received those who should not 7 have received them should suffer any negative effects. And 8 everything you asked for is -- is something that is 9 reasonable. I think we do have the ability to request of the 10 tax attorney's office that they include within that letter, 11 and to take any necessary steps, and represent that they will 12 take all necessary steps, to accomplish every single thing 13 that you have asked for. And -- and then we have the ability, 14 as having oversight of that contractual relationship with Kerr 15 County, to, I think, enforce that occurring. 16 MR. PIKE: I appreciate that you recognize that. 17 You know, there's two problems. You have to correct the mess, 18 but there ought to be a way to prevent it. As I said, there 19 needs to be some kind of periodic review of that department, 20 even if it's unofficial. I assume that there's an entity of 21 authority here; otherwise, I wouldn't be standing here asking 22 for your help if you couldn't do anything. So, you need to 23 provide -- in a department like that, that has so many 24 financial transactions taking place for so much money, some 25 kind of an oversight that -- that's not just totally 8-27-07 86 1 disciplinary, but is assisting, also helping these people. 2 There's no excuse for that software to sit there for a year 3 and not be updated because of no funds. That's ridiculous. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to hear that aspect 5 of from it Mr. Trolinger. There is another aspect of it, too, 6 while Mr. Trolinger's coming up, and that is advising the law 7 firm at a time period prior to the deadline. Not only that 8 created a problem for those of you who walk in the Tax Office 9 to make a payment, perhaps on the last day or just before 10 close of business, but it also affects those who pay online. 11 MR. PIKE: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And any early notification 13 prior to the action, I guess, of that particular day -- 14 MR. PIKE: 11 o'clock at night. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- then makes somebody else 16 delinquent that paid online. So -- and Mr. Trolinger maybe 17 can address those. 18 MR. PIKE: There are only about 30 million people 19 probably in this country that pay bills on a direct withdrawal 20 on an account, and the creditor never withdraws that money 21 ahead of the deadline. That doesn't happen. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what -- what may be able 23 to be addressed on your oversight issue is through our 24 policies. That -- and I don't know if we have it in our 25 purview or not, but we may be able to -- delinquent tax 8-27-07 87 1 notices should never be sent, probably till five days after 2 they're delinquent, in my mind, 'cause you have mail problems; 3 you have other things. I mean, to do it the day or the day 4 after is unreasonable, in my mind. 5 MR. PIKE: Or before. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or before, certainly. But I 7 don't know if that's something we can add in our policy, but 8 we may be able to. It's something we can certainly look at. 9 Oversight -- I think, you know, we have budgetary oversight, 10 but beyond that, we don't. 11 MR. PIKE: But that's leverage. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It is leverage. But -- 13 MR. PIKE: I mean, somebody in this county I can't 14 believe can't provide some legitimate oversight to that 15 department down there. As I said, as assistance, if nothing 16 else, to help. You just can't have a department like that -- 17 nobody can run any operation without some kind of supervision 18 and review. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a little bit -- we do have a 20 change, and we're revising our policy and procedures related 21 to handling funds and money and things of that nature, and I 22 think we may be able to address part of that through there. 23 But the statutes also basically mandate that we fund that 24 office. I mean, we have some budgetary oversight, but it's 25 within limitations, too. 8-27-07 88 1 MR. PIKE: If you got control of any budget, you've 2 got control. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we have limited control over 4 the budget. 5 MR. PIKE: But it needs it badly. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When did -- I don't want to 7 get nosy, but when did you get the phone call from 8 Mr. Schober? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know, a week or so ago. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A week or so ago? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'd like to do is make a 13 motion -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. You got some 15 more information coming. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About the software aspect. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can still make the motion I 18 want to make. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to authorize the 22 County Judge to work directly with the law firm that we've 23 contracted with to resolve all matters and others as he sees 24 appropriate, including all those Mr. Pike brought forward in 25 resolving the issues with these delinquent tax notices being 8-27-07 89 1 sent out inappropriately. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it, if you'll 3 let us hear from Mr. Trolinger. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Now, 6 let's move on. Mr. Trolinger? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. Well, Commissioner 8 Williams approached me approximately two weeks -- two weeks 9 ago and asked me to investigate the issue with the delinquent 10 tax notices. I went to the Tax Assessor/Collector and sat 11 down with her. She explained the situation. I understood 12 that the report had been run before it was actually due to be 13 run. 14 MR. PIKE: That's right. 15 MR. TROLINGER: I looked at some code tables and 16 some things like that. I don't, as I.T., understand all the 17 complexities of all the taxing entities, but what I did find 18 was that this is essentially a clerical error. There is not a 19 problem with the software. And just simply, as you found with 20 your research, Mr. Pike, the report was run before it should 21 have been run. 22 MR. PIKE: And that's inexcusable. You don't ever 23 run a delinquency before the due date of something. That was 24 just poor judgment. And I certainly think -- my experience in 25 management, which is extensive, is often when the war is this 8-27-07 90 1 way, everybody wants to attack that way. The problem in 2 problem-solving is to identify the problem. The problem is 3 not the quarterly taxpaying system; it's the way it's being 4 administered. And -- and I would think that, as I said, we 5 need an ad hoc committee of some kind to go in there and help 6 these people. And, certainly, you shouldn't have a -- a 7 computer deficiency that lasts for a year or exists for more 8 than a year. That's just not -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From what you're hearing, we 10 didn't have a deficiency. 11 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. The code tables, et 12 cetera, I didn't find any -- any substantial issue with. 13 There may have -- may have been something that the software 14 vendor, the support people helped with in the background that 15 I didn't know about that resolved the issue, but it -- it's 16 not something I handled directly. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other item -- and if 18 Commissioner Williams will work with me on a resolution, I 19 think the Court can do a resolution to the Tax Assessor 20 identifying the problem and putting a requirement -- or 21 request that delinquent statements never be mailed out prior 22 to the date of the delinquency. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will do. 24 MR. PIKE: If I can, the reason I was told that was 25 done is because she said she was under pressure to get out the 8-27-07 91 1 legitimate delinquencies as early as first of July, because 2 they've been existing for some time. I can understand that, 3 but that does not justify putting out bogus tax liens on the 4 people who are not delinquent. But that's the reason she said 5 she did it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Any -- any further 7 question or comments with regard to the motion before the 8 Court? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We've got an 14 11 o'clock timed item that we've now run over, but we'll go to 15 it. Mr. Larry Boccaccio with the Texas Association of 16 Counties is with us here today, and this is a happy time, a 17 good day. 18 MR. BOCCACCIO: Good morning, all. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 20 MR. BOCCACCIO: I come bearing gifts. Actually, 21 this was the 2006 safety award that was -- it was done during 22 the County Management Institute in May in Austin, and I'm just 23 now getting around to bringing it out here, so just -- just a 24 little late. But a couple of the -- the players in this, I 25 want to recognize Rusty for his efforts, and Len for their 8-27-07 92 1 efforts out at Road and Bridge, 'cause they're helping y'all's 2 worker's comp costs go down. So, there is a nice little 3 plaque y'all can put up in a prominent place, and if you want 4 to do a picture, we can do that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's the check? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No check this time, Commissioner. 7 MR. BOCCACCIO: I actually had somebody ask that. 8 They said, "Don't -- just bring the check; forget the plaque." 9 I went, "Well, I don't know." I think that's coming in the 10 form of a worker's comp credit, isn't it? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we've got a significant credit 15 coming on -- 16 MR. BOCCACCIO: I want to say you have -- Victor 17 will be doing that probably when -- right around renewal time. 18 So -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Victor gets to do the money. 20 MR. BOCCACCIO: He gets to do the good stuff. He 21 gets to give money away. So, here I am. Do y'all want to do 22 a picture? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Come on up here. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's got a camera? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The scribe here has got a camera. 8-27-07 93 1 MS. VAN WINKLE: My camera is giving me a little bit 2 of a problem, I'm sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the thing work or not? 4 MS. VAN WINKLE: Not right now, Buster. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If it doesn't work, we can't take a 6 picture, then. 7 MS. VAN WINKLE: I thought I was going to be able to 8 get it to work. I am so sorry. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to buy you a new 10 battery? 11 MS. VAN WINKLE: No, my toggle switch is busted. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Your toggle switch is busted? 13 MS. VAN WINKLE: It works when I hold my tongue 14 right, and I'm not doing that. So, sorry, I apologize. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You get to stay here for the rest of 16 the day until our camera works. Isn't that great? 17 MR. BOCCACCIO: I love it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 20 MR. BOCCACCIO: You're welcome. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 MR. BOCCACCIO: You're welcome. Judge, I'm going to 24 leave you with it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you so much. 8-27-07 94 1 MR. BOCCACCIO: You're welcome. Good job, y'all. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The county family is the best 5 working group on earth. 6 MR. BOCCACCIO: I know it. And it's -- 7 MS. VAN WINKLE: Actually, it is working. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Now it's working? Here you go. Come 9 on back. 10 MS. VAN WINKLE: The authority of the Court -- the 11 authority of the Court superseded the whole problem. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MS. VAN WINKLE: Could you huddle together a little 14 closer, please? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move up there, Bill. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get over here. 17 MS. VAN WINKLE: Hold your breath, smile, and don't 18 blink. (Picture taken.) Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You like that? 20 MS. VAN WINKLE: I think it's good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Great. Thank you. 22 MR. BOCCACCIO: You're welcome. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Thank you so much. 24 MR. BOCCACCIO: Surely. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You come on and see us any time. 8-27-07 95 1 MR. BOCCACCIO: I'll do it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll take your money over here. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Couple times a year be fine. 4 MR. BOCCACCIO: Couple times? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if Victor always brings the 6 check, tell him to come twice a year. 7 MR. BOCCACCIO: Y'all take care. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 MR. BOCCACCIO: You're welcome. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, in addition to the comp credit, 11 I would remind you that a couple years ago we got a check for 12 about 18 grand on our safety -- safety program, so it's good 13 news. Okay, let's get back to where we were. Let's go to 14 Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 15 revision of Lot 13 and water well lot in Oak Ridge Estates and 16 possibly set a date for public hearing. Mr. Odom. 17 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Wiedenfeld is seeking 18 guidance on how to proceed with a legal -- possible legal 19 maze, as inferred from the letter from the County Attorney. 20 He states that a new well is needed, and in the past the Court 21 has abandoned road easements back to the property owner when 22 the easement no longer serves a purpose for the public. I 23 could not tell if Mr. Wiedenfeld owns the easement by the plat 24 and all through to the well; it just says public road 25 easement. Or that -- whether he owns it or whether the 8-27-07 96 1 adjacent property owner owns that. A legal opinion is 2 probably needed to determine who owns what, and that does not 3 involve the County Attorney, in my opinion, to do that. I 4 think that's probably legal on Mr. Wiedenfeld's part. If the 5 legal opinion is determined, then we don't see -- the 6 department doesn't see why this could not be done, as long as 7 Mr. Wiedenfeld pays the revision of plat and no cost is 8 incurred by the County. And if the Court agrees, we will need 9 to set a public hearing, and I think Mr. Wiedenfeld is here to 10 be able to -- yeah -- answer any questions. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we get the County 12 Attorney to speak to this document he gave us a little bit, 13 just to give us a little guidance? 14 MR. EMERSON: I don't think -- the problem is, I 15 don't think we have enough information at this time to address 16 it. I don't know if the County owns the property itself, or 17 if we merely have an easement. And depending on what the 18 situation is determines the procedures of the Court. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, also, after we make 20 that determination, then there apparently -- according to what 21 you provided us in Section 263 of the Local Government Code, 22 there's a process to go through in determining value and how 23 we do all this; is that correct? 24 MR. EMERSON: There's a very specific process and a 25 specific set of priorities for who can purchase the property 8-27-07 97 1 and what the order of priorities are. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First step is to find out who 4 owns the property, correct? 5 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Wiedenfeld maybe could 7 shed some light on that. 8 MR. WIEDENFELD: That was -- Charles Wiedenfeld. 9 I'm representing Wiedenfeld Water Works. I guess the first -- 10 and that was my question when I came to them, was who owns the 11 property? And, you know, Appraisal District indicated that 12 the owner of Lot 13 did, but by my calculations, in his tax -- 13 what he's been paying taxes on is on .81 acres, which that's 14 what calculates out land that he owns outside the easement. 15 The easement itself is roughly about four-tenths of an acre. 16 The 50-foot easement is about four-tenths of an acre, and 17 which would make his property -- if he was the owner, paying 18 the taxes on it, would be about 1.2 acres he'd be paying taxes 19 on, which it doesn't appear that he is. I'm not paying taxes 20 on it. I only pay taxes on the well lot, which is a 50-by-50 21 piece of property. So that's why I went to Mr. Odom and said, 22 "Who owns it?" And is it an easement that can be abandoned 23 back to adjacent owners, or -- and like I said, my purpose is 24 I need to drill a well, and I don't -- can't get it inside my 25 existing 50-by-50. I could possibly, at the very -- I mean, 8-27-07 98 1 worst case scenario. But that's why I would like to be able 2 to move it onto property, like I say, within the area that 3 this easement's on. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You own the well lot, 5 correct? 6 MR. WIEDENFELD: I own the well lot, yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks to me like there's 8 also another property owner that might have a potential 9 interest, and that's the property to the south. Would that be 10 correct? 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, all the properties -- all 12 properties have access to a county-maintained road all around 13 this property. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. 15 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But any abandonment, the 17 interest comes upon abandonment; is that correct? Somebody 18 can say, "Hey, I got an interest in that." 19 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay, I see. The lot on the south 20 side would have, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Who's your surveyor? 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I was seeing what this 23 decision was, and then I'll go get a surveyor. But -- and 24 bring it back to the legal, I guess. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the key is who owns 8-27-07 99 1 the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Easement. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the easement. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the property under the 6 easement. 7 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And go from there. If it's the 9 County, we have one process. If it's somebody else, you never 10 have to talk to us again. 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: It was represented to me it was 12 dedicated to the public as part of the process -- I mean, the 13 platting process. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's a revision of plat. 15 MR. EMERSON: Even if the County doesn't own the fee 16 simple property underneath, we still have the easement, and if 17 he wants to expand this in that easement for his water well, 18 it's still going to require abandonment of a certain portion 19 of the easement and all the procedures that go with it. But 20 as I told Len when I talked to Len, it's no reflection on 21 Charlie or anybody else in particular, but this is a private 22 legal issue that he needs to get an attorney and go through 23 procedures to determine the ownership on the property, and 24 then determine how to acquire the property. You know, as far 25 as we're concerned -- as far as the County's concerned, the 8-27-07 100 1 easement's there; it exists, and if a private individual wants 2 to make a change, they need to go through the procedures to do 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't just leave the 5 easement there? 6 MR. WIEDENFELD: I have to own the land to drill a 7 well on it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And your -- are you -- 9 well, it's none of my business how you're figuring out where 10 you're drilling your well. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about the 12 entire easement, or just a small portion? 13 MR. WIEDENFELD: I was -- I was going to split it -- 14 I'd already talked to the neighbor. I said, well, you know -- 15 'cause after visiting with Len, you know, he thought it could 16 be done, or Truby was saying it sounds like abandonment of 17 easement was possible. And I said, "Well, we'll split the 18 property, you know, 'cause I only need a 25-foot easement." 19 And at that time, I was under the belief that he was paying 20 taxes, because that's what's the Appraisal District had told 21 me, but after I did some further looking into it, he -- he 22 hasn't been paying taxes on that easement. He's -- all the 23 rest of the -- you know, the road right-of-ways within the 24 subdivision, property lines go out to the middle of the road, 25 and then everybody is paying. But in this case, on that 8-27-07 101 1 50-foot easement, those calculations for his .81 acres does 2 not include that 50-foot easement, so it's not on the tax 3 rolls at this time by my calculations. And that's why I was 4 thinking if we could get it on the tax roll, we'd split it up. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I suggest you get 6 somebody to help you sort this out, and then make a 7 determination whether you really want to deal with the entire 8 easement or whether you just want to deal with a sufficient 9 portion to get your well site. 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay, I hear you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- Mr. Wiedenfeld, I see another 12 couple of potential issues here on the -- on that portion of 13 the easement that -- that's immediately adjacent to Lot 13. 14 There's an indication that there's a water line buried there. 15 I assume there's a water line that serves the entire 16 subdivision? 17 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, and I will bear the cost of 18 moving that and moving the septic system on that guy's 19 property. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. Because the new radius 21 would impact that. Yeah, okay. 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. Thank you for the... 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Charlie. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Okay, let's move to Item 25 11; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to purchase 8-27-07 102 1 Road and Bridge software. 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We're currently using 3 programming of our own design to manage citizens' concerns, 4 the state road list, traffic accidents, daily worksheets, work 5 schedules and hours, sign placement and inventory, equipment, 6 repairs, and et cetera. They work well, but they're not 7 integrated. We visited with John about our needs and what 8 software might be available. Truby has been researching what 9 is available, and at what cost. Last week we got information 10 on CompuLink's Visual Road and Bridge IMS. There are 11 currently six counties in Texas using their software. Truby 12 talked with four of those -- that was Grimes, Falls, Red 13 River, and Denton -- and found all of them liked the product 14 and are extremely pleased with the service they receive. 15 Denton County Road and Bridge has used it for seven years, and 16 said they couldn't imagine trying to do the job without it. 17 CompuLink will convert all of our current files to the new 18 system for $500 to $1,000, depending on the amount of data we 19 send them. The regular price of this system is $20,000 plus 20 $1,000 annual maintenance fee. They're running a special that 21 ends October the 1st of '07 for all 21 integrated modules for 22 an annual subscription of $1,750. The only other software we 23 have considered is $20,000 per module, plus $1,000 annual 24 maintenance fee per module, and the minimum number of modules 25 is three, which would be $60,000 plus $3,000 on an annual 8-27-07 103 1 basis. We currently have money in engineering to pay for the 2 software and conversion, and ask the Court to allow us to 3 purchase it at this time. For the upcoming year, we would 4 need to set up a line item for software maintenance. We've 5 had John out to talk about it, and I think Truby has talked to 6 him. His opinion -- I wasn't privileged to be at that 7 meeting, but got the -- the gist that I think John was -- I 8 think approved -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: I did the research. It looks great. 10 Looks like a wonderful software package, and it even includes 11 provisions for animal control, for instance. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw that. 13 MR. TROLINGER: If we want to expand the scope of 14 work on it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Several questions. 16 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you telling me that our cost to 18 be up and running on that -- 19 MR. ODOM: $1,750. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: $1,750, and then thereafter, same 21 annual cost? 22 MR. ODOM: Same annual cost. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're increasing -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Excluding all of these base setup, 25 $20,000, excluding the three minimum, the $1,000 per on an 8-27-07 104 1 annual basis, and we're looking at a one-time cost this year 2 of $1,750; thereafter, annually at $1,750? 3 MR. ODOM: $1,750, and probably anywhere from $500 4 to $1,000, depending upon the amount of money to integrate all 5 the data that we have. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, to bring it over one time? 7 MR. ODOM: That's right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, next question. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Judge, if I can make sure 10 I understand. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, instead of paying $20,000, 13 $1,000 annual, then they're just paying $1,750 for as long as 14 you're using it? 15 MR. ODOM: That's right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're increasing your 17 maintenance and decreasing your up-front end? 18 MR. ODOM: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like a pretty good deal 20 to me. 21 MR. TROLINGER: It appears to be, correct. It's a 22 little bit complex, and I haven't seen the contract yet. I 23 think we'll get those details straight once we have the 24 contract. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Seems like a good deal. 8-27-07 105 1 MR. ODOM: As I understand it, what I presented to 2 you is it's going to cost me $1,750 per year. Pick up the 3 phone and call them any time. The research we've done on 4 that, it says that, you know, it's exemplary. This 5 individual's been doing it for a good while. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. How many of these modules 7 can or will you use, either now or in the foreseeable future? 8 MR. ODOM: Well, I don't have an answer today. I 9 haven't seen all that they've had. Truby's been more in line. 10 I've asked her to follow up and do that, but I'm going to 11 guess everything I read here may be a separate module in 12 itself. Complaints, et cetera. So, whether we use all 21, I 13 don't know, but someone -- maybe Animal Control, some of the 14 others may be able to use that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. By having the license 16 running to Kerr County, can we transfer the use of that module 17 over to Animal Control? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Environmental Health. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Same question. 20 MR. ODOM: Environmental Health, I don't have an 21 answer, but maybe John's -- I don't know. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Right. Those are questions that 23 will be answered with the contract. We haven't got to that 24 stage yet. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-27-07 106 1 MR. TROLINGER: We just wanted to come and present 2 that it's here, that we have 30 days left, that we can't 3 afford to do it, and we wanted your -- input to you, and 4 vice-versa back. We would proceed -- proceed on to get more 5 information. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to take a look at that 8 contract. If it's properly represented, as you've indicated, 9 and as Mr. Trolinger has indicated, looks like it's something 10 that we could get a lot of use of. I see a benefits module in 11 there, too. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Track benefit hours earned and used, 14 or comp time and things of that nature. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Solid waste. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we got a solid waste module. 17 All sorts of -- 18 MR. ODOM: All sorts of them. 19 MR. TROLINGER: There are a lot of components, a lot 20 of interesting things in this software. But the key here is, 21 again, the urgency of -- of getting in under the time limit to 22 get this deal. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't need Court action 24 today. We just -- so go, proceed. 25 MR. ODOM: Proceed. 8-27-07 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: October 1 is when the deal 2 runs out? 3 MR. ODOM: That's -- that's it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get it reviewed by the 5 County Attorney before you bring it back. 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, we'll run the contract past the 7 attorney. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Odom. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like you got a good thing 12 working there. Let's move to Item 12; consider, discuss, and 13 take appropriate action on adopted '07-'08 Kerr County 14 Appraisal District budget. I assume that budget was adopted 15 at the Appraisal District's meeting of, I believe, the 23rd. 16 They were scheduled to adopt it on that date, as per their 17 communication to me. The budget copies have been provided to 18 members of the Court. Per the Court's instruction, I sent out 19 a communication to both members of the board of the Appraisal 20 District, with copies to the governing boards of all of the 21 entities who participate in the funding of that budget. A 22 copy of that letter was furnished to each member of the Court 23 previously. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, refresh my memory. What 25 is the COLA that the County -- we're looking at, at the 8-27-07 108 1 moment, of incorporating? Two-point -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we zeroed in on it. 3 We're looking at anything from 3 up to 4, I think, generally 4 is probably a good range. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their COLA is 3.3 that they're 6 putting in here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but they created the reserve 8 for merit increases, which would provide effective salary 9 increases of 7 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I saw that. But their 11 actual COLA is 3.3, but they have a reserve that doesn't -- of 12 another 3.7 percent which doesn't have a whole lot of 13 background on it, other than how it's going to be allocated. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it may be moot. The 15 Judge says they've already approved it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've approved it, but then we 17 have to approve it, and the other entities that fund it have 18 to approve it. And if we don't, and if enough other entities 19 don't, -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They'll have to go back. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then they have to go back and 22 relook at it. And my memory is that this is similar, but they 23 build in that merit increase almost every year at about this 24 rate. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8-27-07 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which I -- you know -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It just doesn't seem fair that 3 they can do this every year, and they have done it evidently 4 for quite some time, and expect for the school districts and 5 City and the County and all the other taxing entities to go 6 along with it. And I know for a fact that school teachers 7 don't get that kind of an annual raise, so why in the world 8 would they approve that kind of a budget increase for our 9 Appraisal District? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What they've done is figured 11 out a way to finesse it by creating that merit pool, and then 12 they apply the merit pool on top of the COLA next year, so 13 they figured out a way to get around all that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Rather creative. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to vote 16 against approval of the Kerr Central Appraisal budget. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 disapproval of the Kerr Central Appraisal District budget for 20 '07-'08 as presented. Any question or discussion on the 21 motion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a question. 23 There's a 3.3 across the board for everybody throughout, 24 right? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8-27-07 110 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then they have a 3.7 set 3 up for each employee? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hard to tell. It goes into a 5 pool. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: They show salaries at 7 percent 7 differential. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's 3.7 for everybody. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But they broke it down into a COLA, 10 and then the balance of it to merit raises. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they're planning -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Appears they're coming out at 7.04. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're planning on giving a 14 merit raise to each and every employee out there? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's hard to say. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, it's not hard to 17 say. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, by what they've 19 submitted, it's hard to say. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, they've -- they've said 21 they're going to do it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they say they're doing 23 it, 3.3 and 3.7. That adds up to 7 percent. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm saying, it's hard to 25 say. In their backup, it has every position. 8-27-07 111 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it says 3.3. Then at the 3 bottom, it has a block of the merit amount of $16,000, and I 4 don't know if that's what they mean, giving to it everybody, 5 or give it all to one person. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, when did you get the 7 values in that was -- when was the date that you received 8 those? The certified values. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, the certified tax rolls? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 11 MS. HARGIS: August 8th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 13 MS. HARGIS: August 8th. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: August 8th, which the -- the statute 15 anticipates that those values, certified tax rolls, should be 16 furnished to the jurisdictions affected by July the 25th. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I thought. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you know, -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Two weeks late. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- they're wanting a raise in 22 salaries for doing such good work, but yet they're not on time 23 like they're mandated to be with the certified tax rolls. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I pointed that out in my letter to 25 them, Commissioner. 8-27-07 112 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know you did, and I 2 appreciate that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 4 that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 10 to Item 13, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 11 on the proposed amendment to the taxing unit agenda for the 12 Kerr County Appraisal District '06 budget in accordance with 13 the request letter dated August 2, '07. This has to do with 14 the reserve account for their potential building renovation. 15 They want to transfer the surplus in the '06 budget to the 16 building reserve account for the '07 budget. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to know -- I did not 18 see in the backup as to what the dollar amount we're talking 19 about is. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's not there. I was 21 going to ask that same question. Nor did they tell us how 22 much they spent last year doing whatever it is they did. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: One way to make them tell you, 24 gentlemen. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we vote 8-27-07 113 1 against the proposed amendment until we get further 2 information. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 disapproval of the proposed amendment to the taxing unit 6 agenda for the Kerr County Appraisal District '06 budget, as 7 set forth in the August 2, '07 letter. Any further question 8 or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 9 signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 14 to Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 15 adopt fees charged for civil services by the office of Sheriff 16 and constables. Sheriff, I put this on the agenda without 17 consulting you. I didn't know whether you'd be ready for it 18 or not. They must be approved and forwarded in before October 19 1, and if you're not ready to go on it, just say so. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. In fact -- in fact, even 21 before it was on the agenda, Jannett had sent it over to me. 22 We both agreed to it, and I guess we may have had a 23 miscommunication. I thought she was going to put it on. You 24 thought I was going to put it on, but that's fine. We are 25 well prepared. And I haven't seen what you did, but what 8-27-07 114 1 Jannett and I talked about, I have no proposed changes in it 2 from what we worked last year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same as last year? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same as last year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That makes it pretty simple. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we set it as the same 8 schedule as last year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second to adopt 11 the fees charged for civil services by offices of Sheriff and 12 constables as was put into effect for last year. Any question 13 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 14 signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 19 to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 20 appoint County Judge Pat Tinley to the Board of Trustees of 21 the Hill Country Community Mental Health and Mental 22 Retardation Center for a two-year term effective September 1, 23 2007. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8-27-07 115 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't want me to explain this to 2 you, do you? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the County Attorney wants to 6 delay us. 7 MR. EMERSON: Well, I have a question for y'all. Do 8 we currently have a member of the Commissioners Court on that 9 board? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we do not. For a number of 11 years, Dr. Sam Junkin has been the Court's appointee to that 12 board, and Dr. Junkin has done a tremendous job. And he 13 served notice that it was time for him to hang it up, and so 14 he would -- he would not accept reappointment. Traditionally, 15 the members of that board have been the county judges of the 16 various counties that are comprised within the -- within the 17 jurisdiction of that Mental Health Authority. And -- 18 MR. EMERSON: My follow-up question, then, would be 19 have you checked with the Attorney General's opinions to see 20 if there's a conflict between being on this board and being an 21 elected official? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I haven't. But I assume Judge 23 Jim Barden and Judge Evans and, you know, the myriad of other 24 judges that serve in the same capacity in their county as I 25 serve here have resolved that issue, and that's been resolved 8-27-07 116 1 long ago. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's correct, 3 Judge. 4 MR. EMERSON: That's my two questions. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Already been done. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any further question or 7 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's move to 12 17; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to further 13 discuss new policy and fee schedule for Kerr County Exhibition 14 Center and rescind all previous orders pertaining to the same. 15 I'll give it to you guys. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My colleague to the west. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why put it on me? You're the 19 one that put on it here. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't put it on here. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have been discussing it. 22 We have been discussing this for quite a while, and Ms. Hyde 23 and I have been working, as well as Jonathan, trying to come 24 up with some new policies for booking procedures and -- and 25 fees for the Exhibition Center. And I believe that we finally 8-27-07 117 1 have a fairly good set of guidelines here. I'd like to get 2 the rest of the Court's input, and also Ms. Hyde, I think, has 3 something to add. 4 MS. HYDE: If we go to our current policy, there are 5 some changes that would have to be made. We talked about it 6 during the workshop. I think there was a little bit of 7 concern that these would change, and they do need to change a 8 tad to match the policies on the portion -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are the changes in the 10 existing? 11 MS. HYDE: If you go to -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The underlined portions? 13 MS. HYDE: -- Number 5 -- no, Number 5. It says the 14 deposits are due with each contract. Our policy is that the 15 deposits are due with the reservation. And then the same 16 Number 5, where it says balance due for rental is not -- is 17 payable not less than 10 days. This says 21 days. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change it from 21 to 10? 19 MS. HYDE: Change it from 10 to 21. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 to 21. Any others? 21 MS. HYDE: Number 8. We don't have three rental 22 categories any more, so the suggestion was to cut out the 23 first two sentences and just leave the qualified for the 24 not-for-profit down. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say that again? 8-27-07 118 1 MS. HYDE: We don't have three rental categories. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. HYDE: So in this Number 8, it talks about 4 commercial, not-for-profit, and educational events, and then 5 it's talking about the rental rates. To qualify for 6 not-for-profit; you have to have a 501(c)(3), and all other 7 organizations are going to be commercial. But then you go to 8 educational. I understood no admission fee or entry fee is 9 charged. Social events are considered commercial events. 10 Number 8 really doesn't -- doesn't fit any more. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, do you think just take out 12 the entire Number 8? 13 MS. HYDE: Yeah, because we show what not-for-profit 14 is, and it will be up to Commissioners Court to decide who 15 gets what. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're not changing 17 Number 8, we're taking it out? 18 MS. HYDE: Then Number 14. The deposit, again, for 19 catering is 10 days, not 5. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go back to Paragraph 11. We're 21 talking about reduced rate or free use. 22 MS. HYDE: Number 11? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. So, the way we're saying 24 right here is that only those, you know, six categories get 25 free use. 8-27-07 119 1 MS. HYDE: This is the policy that's been on the net 2 for several years. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MS. HYDE: I think the big -- the big kicker is the 5 one at the bottom; the exceptions to the policy will be 6 allowed -- approved by Commissioners Court. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, in the future, we're going 8 to have to -- any nonprofit that wants a reduced rate is going 9 to need to come to the Court to get approval, and at that 10 point that rate discount would be approved? 11 MS. HYDE: We've got -- we've got a listing on the 12 back page of what we were able to show -- showed as nonprofit 13 commercial in the past, and that we're -- we're under order 14 27353. So, we could take that order and utilize that action, 15 correct? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I think we ought 17 to get all the other orders, but we may want to use that 18 nonprofit -- I mean, to keep from having these entities -- if 19 we agree on them coming back to the Court, I think we should 20 do it at our -- on whichever running list. We shouldn't make, 21 like, the -- I'm trying to think of one here. Well, Senior 22 Games banquet. I think we ought to have referred to an annual 23 list that we approve, rather than -- you know. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: One-by-one basis? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rather than a one-by-one. 8-27-07 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about this entire list? 2 Are we sure that all these events still take place? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'm just thinking. You 4 know, maybe we -- I'm not saying we should include all of 5 these on the list. I'm saying we should do a list. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I'm just saying 7 probably some of these don't even take place any more. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I think that we could -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe we'll be able to 10 develop a better list after October 1, when we have -- have 11 another person that's going to be in charge of bookings and 12 all these kinds of documents. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And it also occurs to me that 14 whoever's doing the booking can qualify by having exhibited 15 the appropriate nonprofit tax certification that we identify 16 in here. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're taking out that proof, 18 though. Paragraph 8 is where you identify nonprofits. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we need to keep that. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can put that back in. 21 MS. HYDE: Put back in the 501(c)(3)? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, to qualify for not-for-profit. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that pretty well takes 24 care of nonprofits. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That needs to be in there. 8-27-07 121 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Those middle two sentences, 2 put them back in there. I got a couple of questions. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, wait, wait, wait. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, I don't know that I think 6 that all nonprofits should get reduced rates. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it doesn't say they 8 are. It just says to qualify, they have to show a 501(c)(3). 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you qualify, and then you 10 get -- it takes Court approval. 11 MS. HYDE: Well, it says to qualify for the 12 not-for-profit rental rate. And later on, it talks about the 13 rental rate based on the three different sections that we used 14 to have -- or four. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 MS. HYDE: Or five. So -- but the new policy states 17 that the bottom line is that they -- when they come, it's up 18 to Commissioners Court to say and vote on what discount they 19 get, from 0 to 100 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For -- and I don't know if -- 21 you know, I'm trying to think of a good example to use, but 22 I'm sure there are examples out there that I couldn't come up 23 with, that it's a nonprofit that may not be -- that I have any 24 interest in giving them a discounted rate. The fact that 25 you're a nonprofit doesn't mean you should automatically be 8-27-07 122 1 subsidized by the taxpayers of this county. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, a nonprofit, 3 basically -- I think you could say Hill Country Telephone 4 Co-op. They're basically a co-op that they're not-for-profit, 5 but they're a commercial business. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good example. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to be out there 8 in September for their annual meeting, and so they're not 9 getting a discount. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're paying full price. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there are -- I just -- I 13 think we need to -- I think it's probably better to take 8 out 14 right now. I think we need to maybe just refer to that non -- 15 you know, we need to develop a separate court order, maybe, of 16 who's going to get free use on that. That should be done on 17 an annual basis. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By leaving the reference to 19 501(c)(3) in, it probably needs some adjustment. We could 20 re-tailor that to indicate that they're qualified to be placed 21 on a list, but they still have to receive Commissioners Court 22 approval. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 MS. HYDE: I can do that. I can just define what 25 not-for-profit is, and then put the second part; it still has 8-27-07 123 1 to -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you're not a 501(c)(3), you 3 have a very slim chance of getting approved. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just need to distinguish 5 that they're qualified to be placed on this list. That does 6 not automatically grant them an exemption. 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. My turn? Paragraph 4. I 9 guess a lot of this is cleanup. Second line, lessee to hold 10 two or more dates with a single deposit. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Paragraph 5, a qualifier at the 13 beginning, except for multiple-date users, comma, deposits are 14 due at each contract. 15 MS. HYDE: Say that one more time? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Except for multiple-date, quote, 17 unquote, users. Paragraph 6, last sentence. Equal to or 18 greater than the amount of the base facility rental. Or are 19 you wanting to talk about the base -- or the gross rental of 20 the -- of the canceling event? 21 MS. HYDE: I assumed it was the -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Facility. Base facility. 23 MS. HYDE: The base rent. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Then insert the word base -- the word 25 "facility" after base. Okay. Go to Paragraph 13. Last -- 8-27-07 124 1 last bullet under alcohol. If the service of alcohol requires 2 the presence of a peace officer, presence of peace officers, 3 who determines that? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to get rid of 5 the -- 6 MS. HYDE: I have no idea. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably get rid of the 9 "if." 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think it does require. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. If you -- I mean, get rid 12 of the "if" and then that solves that one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The service of alcohol requires the 14 presence -- and this expense shall be borne by the -- okay. 15 MS. HYDE: So, cut out, "If the service..." 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just get rid of the word "if." 17 The service of alcohol requires the presence of peace 18 officers, and this expense shall be borne by the lessee. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the service of alcohol 20 will require one. Why don't we do that? Will require the 21 presence of a peace officer. Make it a requirement. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Insurance requires that? Yeah. 23 Our insurance requires this anyway. 24 MS. HYDE: Although it's not in here, there's been a 25 request. The other peace officers locally are charging 8-27-07 125 1 between $30 and $35 for their services per hour, so while 2 we're doing the increase, I would recommend we go ahead and 3 increase the rate of the peace officers. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's up to the peace 6 officers and Sheriff's Department. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think you can have that 8 in there. I think that is up to the individual peace 9 officers. 'Cause we can't act as a security company; it voids 10 everything. You can't put that in there. 11 MS. HYDE: So -- well, the peace officers are the 12 ones that were talking to me, and they said that in the past, 13 it was in this. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's just -- no. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Never been that way? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Never been in that, and cannot 17 be in that. 18 MS. HYDE: So, it's something to determine with the 19 people. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is up to whatever peace 21 officers are working out there and whoever's renting it out to 22 make those arrangements, and we cannot be involved in it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $50? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If they can get it from them, 25 yeah, you know. 8-27-07 126 1 MS. HYDE: Well, then we need to make sure that 2 when -- when Rex also gets the contract -- 'cause it is in the 3 contract, and the contract states that the lessee will pay $25 4 an hour. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Nope, I don't think you can do that. 6 Ms. Hyde's just saying -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's saying we're doing it. 8 MS. HYDE: I'm saying it's in your contracts -- our 9 contracts. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to look at our contract. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to redo the contract. 12 MS. HYDE: The next part is after this is approved, 13 then Ilse and Rex can help me do the contracts. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, 15, equipment rental. Rental 15 only for on-premises use. Gentlemen, if you'll recall, the 16 Camo Claus event, that equipment's going off-site. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We may want to add to it that, 18 "unless otherwise authorized by Commissioners Court." 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 MS. HYDE: So, just add "unless otherwise 21 authorized"? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, unless otherwise approved -- 23 authorized by Commissioners Court. Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause I'll tell you, the 25 table and chair thing has been, you know, a nightmare. We 8-27-07 127 1 haven't really gotten anything out of it, and there has to be 2 somebody check them out, check them in, and I think it's a 3 waste of our time and it tears up the tables and chairs. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus I think we shouldn't be in 5 private business. Let private business worry about that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't need to be in 7 competition. 8 MS. HYDE: You're on Number 16. That fee is changed 9 from $150 -- it says a fee -- recommending a fee of $300 will 10 be charged the lessee for setting up and taking down the 11 facility after the scheduled event. It's now $300. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Instead of $150. 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Under 17, Declarations, have 15 we always outlawed glitter or confetti? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did, because the former 17 Maintenance Director said it's a real problem. They paste it 18 on the wall and paste it on the posts and all that stuff. 19 These -- these things, a lot of these came from Glenn. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When he was in charge out 22 there. He said those things are just really a problem. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I can imagine confetti being a 24 problem, trying to sweep it up. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And pasting glitter all over 8-27-07 128 1 everything. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's all I got. Are we going to 3 bring that back? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only -- yeah. One more 6 comment here. Tim -- Tim has talked to me about the fact that 7 there have been some recent problems with people coming out 8 and wanting to ride in the indoor arena after 5 o'clock. And 9 we need to make sure that this is -- that if they're paying a 10 rental fee to do that, to ride, is that going to be included 11 in these same hours of operation, or do we need to have a 12 separate -- separate notation for that? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be people who 14 have rented it? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm taking it that it's 16 private individuals coming out wanting to exercise their 17 horses. And then -- 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Like, we'll get a phone 19 call from -- there's several different ladies that come out 20 and ride after 5 o'clock, and we charge them $20 to ride in 21 the barn. But I have a question on that. If we're going to 22 have somebody out there after 5 o'clock, then I need 23 maintenance personnel out there to be with those people, 24 because that's a liability towards the County, isn't it, if 25 something happens? 8-27-07 129 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to raise that. 2 What about the liability issue if somebody goes out there and 3 gets thrown off a horse? 4 MR. BOLLIER: That's what I'm saying. But is it 5 worth -- is it worth them being able to come out there after 6 5 o'clock and me having personnel out there, and they're only 7 paying $20, where I'm paying this person -- this guy to be out 8 there overtime to be there? Is it worth all that? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to make a notation in 10 there that it only -- only applies to facilities rental. 11 Not -- if you want to rent the whole indoor arena for a day, 12 that's one thing. You can ride till 11 o'clock at night if 13 you want to. But if you're just coming out there wanting to 14 warm up your horse or practice, we got to figure out some way 15 to put that in there, that's not allowed after 5 o'clock. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's also talking about 17 people not -- they may not even be associated with an event. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, that's exactly what 20 we're talking about. So we need to pass some kind of a rule 21 or whatever, or just flat not allow it to happen. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happens to those folks 23 that -- this same kind of people, between 8:00 and 5:00? 24 MR. BOLLIER: If they call during 8:00 to 5:00, and 25 if there's not any event or anything going on during the day, 8-27-07 130 1 we usually let them come in, because we have personnel out 2 there. They pay us $20 to ride for an hour or two, and then 3 they're gone. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm still concerned about 5 the liability issue. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not so sure we should let 8 people that aren't renting the property use the property. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in fact, that $20 10 is -- that's their 20 bucks that says I'm renting it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. But, I mean, I'm -- I'm 12 not sure that's a real good practice. 13 MR. BOLLIER: This has been going on -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: An hour, 15 bucks. 15 MR. BOLLIER: This has been going on ever since I've 16 been here. 17 MR. WALSTON: I'm not sure, liability-wise, if these 18 being equine events, that it doesn't fall under the same 19 liability that you would have just for hosting any other 20 roping or anything else that you're having out there. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the problem with that is 22 you have somebody that's leased the facility and has put up an 23 insurance policy. In this case, there's no insurance policy 24 except the County's. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Judge says on the -- this 8-27-07 131 1 sheet, the fee sheet, we have practice ride listed as $15. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we need to take that 3 off. 4 MS. HYDE: Well, if the going rate is $20, I'll 5 change to it $20. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not so sure we even want to leave 7 it on there, 'cause that -- that gives somebody the 8 opportunity to show up out there during scheduled potential 9 hours of operation and say, "I want to ride around out here 10 for an hour." 11 MS. HYDE: Do we utilize a "hold harmless" agreement 12 that would hold us harmless against any liability? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the point. 14 MR. EMERSON: There may be exceptions under the 15 recreational statutes, but I just need to look into it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Take that too. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know there are people that 19 like to do that, but it's really not a sanctioned event; they 20 really don't have the facility rented. And I really believe 21 it's more of a -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Burden. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's a courtesy type 24 thing I'm not sure we need to extend for liability purposes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that also the case with 8-27-07 132 1 practice roping? It's a courtesy? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we got to have a contract for 4 it. If they're -- if they're going to be doing that, we got 5 to have a contract. And they'll put up an insurance policy if 6 they do that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what we're talking about 8 applies to both categories, then. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it would, I think. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about -- well, what about 11 the 4-H folks? Do they just show up out there to ride around? 12 MR. WALSTON: They'll show up the day they're 13 supposed to use the outdoor arena. They don't -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're using that one facility 15 and that's it? 16 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're not riding round the 18 polo field, riding -- 19 MR. WALSTON: Well, not supposed to be. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 MR. WALSTON: I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- I tend to -- I 23 don't think we want people just showing up there individually, 24 individuals using that property. 'Cause, like, for example, 25 if there's an armadillo hole or -- or, you know, who knows 8-27-07 133 1 what happens, something around there, you know, polo field or 2 inside. If something happens, we're accepting money; there's 3 a certain thought that we're maintaining it and taking care of 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't agree more. 6 MS. HYDE: You want me to mark them out? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, both those practice ones. 8 MR. WALSTON: Is that not -- that's not to include 9 the 4-H arena, to where they can, if they call 4-H -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4-H folks, if they're using the 11 4-H arena -- 4-H people using the 4-H arena, that's -- that's 12 okay, I think. 13 MR. WALSTON: Now, I do know that we occasionally 14 get people that say, "Well, I want to use the indoor arena." 15 I tell them -- I say, "That's not ours." That's -- you get 16 the -- we say, "You can use the 4-H arena." Other than 17 that... 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that solves that problem. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't we -- are we through 20 butchering this? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For now. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if the -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't we bring it back at 24 the next meeting and let Eva go ahead and put the final -- 25 hopefully the final -- 8-27-07 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce made a comment about a 2 change October 1. Do we need to discuss that, or is it just 3 something -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We will -- we need to discuss 5 it at the next meeting, I think. It needs to be a proper 6 agenda item. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It needs to be a proper agenda 9 item. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's what I thought. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. You were just trying to 12 trap me; that's what you were doing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it appears that we're not going 14 to be able to get this plowed through -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before lunch. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- before lunch, so why don't we -- 17 why don't we adjourn until about 1:30. 18 (Recess taken from 12:08p.m. to 1:38 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order, if we 21 might. I think the next item on the agenda is Number 19; 22 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to advertise 23 for RFP's or RFQ's, as the case may be, for the professional 24 services of an architectural/design/evaluation/site planner 25 for the Youth Exhibit Center building project. Commissioner 8-27-07 135 1 Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's pretty 3 self-explanatory. I think we need to advertise for 4 qualifications. That would include being a site planner and 5 evaluation, and possibly having architectural capabilities as 6 well. What's behind all this is the fact that we want to -- 7 we've talked about it before, doing some -- some building, new 8 construction as well as some demolition work to be done at the 9 Ag Barn, and -- or Exhibition Center. I'm going to get -- I'm 10 going to quit saying Ag Barn; I'm just going to call it Youth 11 Exhibition Center or Kerr County Exhibition Center. Anyway, 12 we have to -- we have to do this sort of thing to get a -- get 13 people to come in with their qualifications, and then once we 14 have them come in, we make a decision on who we'd like to put 15 on board, and move forward with the project. And in order to 16 be able to do this project, we're going to have to have some 17 professional service to do these kind of things, because we're 18 -- no matter whether we spend tax money or whether we spend 19 grant money, foundation money or whatever, we're going to have 20 to have a plan, and this is the first step in that plan. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking more of a plan, as 22 opposed to an architectural plan, as it were, for a specific 23 building? You're talking about an overall plan and concept? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're talking about mainly one 25 part, maybe two -- two parts of it, but one would be a 8-27-07 136 1 demolition; the other one would be a new building. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce and I have talked about 3 this. We're agreeing where we're going, but I think we need 4 to be -- I think we need to really be careful. I mean, we 5 can't advertise something generally. We've got to be pretty 6 specific as to what we want. And I don't want anything to do 7 with architects, because I have not had good experience with 8 architects on any building public project. I'd rather hire a 9 construction manager firm -- manager firm that will then do 10 those things for us. And I think, then -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do what things for us? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All these same things that Bruce 13 went through; would do the construction, if we get to that 14 point, but also there are capable engineers and architects or 15 designers in-house to work with. I mean, we're -- there's so 16 many unknowns at this point in the project that I think, you 17 know, we need to be comfortable with a -- hire a firm to work 18 with, but I think I'd rather get the firm to do the 19 construction part of it as well. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You mean oversight? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Construction manager, basically. 22 And Rex gave me -- about a month ago, I asked him for this 23 information. There's different ways of selecting a contractor 24 for construction services through competitive sealed 25 proposals, contracts for facilities construction 8-27-07 137 1 manager-slash-agent, and then there's also contracts for 2 facilities construction manager at risk. So, there's kind of 3 -- on the construction side, there's three different types 4 that the law allows us to do, and I think we need to kind of 5 look through those and figure what fits best, 'cause I think 6 that gives the best latitude as to how to proceed. I mean, 7 architects, they're going to want to come in with all kind of 8 grand plans. I don't want anything to do with those things. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you looking for site 10 planning at this point? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause I don't see that 13 called for under the -- under the construction manager agent 14 piece. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think you could probably 16 -- I mean, you know, I think you have some -- I don't know 17 about the construction manager agent one. The only one I 18 dealt with -- was familiar was when the K.I.S.D. built the new 19 high school, they had a construction manager; manager at risk, 20 I believe, was what they chose. And that one -- I mean, I 21 worked with their management team on designing all the 22 athletic facilities, and they had no plan going in of what 23 they wanted. They didn't have a plan in the high school going 24 in. This firm they were using was -- an architect was 25 involved with it, but that was obviously a much bigger 8-27-07 138 1 project. But I just think it's a better approach, 'cause, you 2 know, I don't think that we know exactly what we want them to 3 build -- design and build yet. Bruce and I have talked about 4 it quite a bit amongst ourselves, and part -- and a lot of 5 it's going to depend on if we can find some grants, what the 6 grants want to build. I mean, there's a -- and I don't want 7 to go out and design one building, and then take it to a grant 8 and they say, "Well, we really don't want to build that kind 9 of barn," and then you have to go back and start over. I'd 10 rather try to get a system that's -- you know, hire a 11 professional to assist us in this whole process. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that was the reason I asked the 13 question I did. We're not in a position to design a 14 particular building. I think what Commissioner Oehler's 15 talking about is, if we look at these -- what are there, four 16 various types of functions to be performed here? We carve out 17 the architectural, and someone to assist us with design 18 evaluation and site planning. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And for the overall definition and 21 layout of -- of the type of project that you're looking for, 22 and then once you get the footprint nailed down, and -- and 23 the type of project that you want, then you go forward as to 24 each of the elements. And you may or may not -- for example, 25 if you use an engineered steel structure, you know, the -- you 8-27-07 139 1 get those engineering services generally furnished by the -- 2 by the materials provider. You don't get involved with an 3 architect. I'm -- I'm somewhat like you. For the type of 4 thing that I think we've got in mind, that I don't -- I don't 5 want a high-flying architect to get involved at the get-go. 6 But I think for the overall layout, you know, and the -- and 7 how all these elements are going to work in combination with 8 one another, I -- I think it probably needs -- we need some 9 additional expertise. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we're going to need some 11 design capabilities in this thing, because it's not going to 12 just have -- it won't just be, in my estimation, one building 13 with nothing in it. I mean, you're going to have to have 14 restroom facilities. You're going to have to have lighting 15 and P.A. systems and stuff like that, that all come into part 16 -- into play on the total building project. And the design 17 and the site plan, to me, is the first step. And from there, 18 we can go -- now, as far as somebody to oversee the project as 19 a manager, I think that's a different -- different person. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see that coming in after 21 construction begins. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, somebody that oversees 23 to make sure they're following the plans and -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- and you get what you're 8-27-07 140 1 paying for. That's what I feel like a construction manager 2 is. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At what point in this -- in 4 you guys' thinking does funding come into play? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: After the design and the site 6 plan is developed. Without that, you can't -- you don't have 7 anything to go to grants. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I mean funding for these 9 services. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When does that -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to ask somebody 12 to provide design/evaluation/site planning. At what point 13 does funding for that service come into play? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe that comes in this 15 coming year's budget. By the time we advertise for this, 16 we'll be in the -- and actually select somebody, it will come 17 out of Professional Services within our county budget, the way 18 I -- the way I view it. And I don't -- I don't anticipate 19 this being a huge cost to get somebody to do this up front. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, I -- the way I read the 21 construction manager at risk, they do all that for you free. 22 I mean, you know, they're talking about -- you know, and I 23 think that we're going to need some -- you know, we're going 24 to need drawings, going to need some stuff that's pretty 25 detailed, and I don't think it's going be to be real cheap. 8-27-07 141 1 You know, we need more than a draftsman, and if we hire a 2 construction manager and they're going to get the job if we 3 get the money, then they'll do it at no cost to us. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does that violate the bidding 5 process? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hmm-mm. It's right here. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Commissioner, look at 8 -- if you're looking at construction manager at risk -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 271.118. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Look at Subsection C. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was looking back on 14 Subsection E. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just -- I can't see that the 16 construction manager -- I don't see how that's going to enter 17 into play early on. You kind of have to give parameters of 18 what you want to do first, and seems to me like that that 19 company wouldn't be -- wouldn't be guaranteed the job. This 20 is -- we're talking about spending over a million dollars. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. I'm not 22 trying to throw -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, but I don't see how -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to see how it 25 all fits. 8-27-07 142 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know from past experience, 2 you got to get your design and your architectural stuff done 3 up front in order to be able to put plans together so that you 4 could go out for bids. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my concern is that we're 6 just spending a whole lot of money, where we're going to be 7 changing as we go. An architect or engineer, you're going to 8 -- you know, you're going to be paying them $70,000 right off 9 the top. They're going to take -- they're going to take 5 to 10 7 percent for them to seal anything, and probably closer to 7. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not talking about an 12 engineer; I'm talking about a site planner and a design 13 person, and those kinds of things are going on what my vision 14 is, and I think what your vision is. It's not that complex. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So I don't think we're talking 17 about a huge amount of money. Now, if we hire a structural 18 engineer and do all that -- I think that's why we don't go 19 with another kind of structure than an engineered metal 20 building, the pre-engineered building, which comes as a 21 service provided by the companies that sell those things. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But, see, I don't think 23 -- I don't -- you know, the engineering -- the building may 24 not be engineered, but it's going to have to get engineered 25 electrical, going to have to be engineered. We're going to 8-27-07 143 1 pay for all this engineering one way or the other. We have to 2 by law. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So... 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then how do we start -- until 6 we get a site plan done and do all that, we're not going to 7 know how much the rest of this stuff is going to be. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe -- maybe what 9 we're talking about is hiring a site planner. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, a site planner -- I 11 think we've got a site plan. I think maybe hire a -- you 12 know, I'm trying to think who's a non-architect around that 13 does this kind of work. Someone like Mickey -- Thompson? -- 14 Thompson. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: He's in the racing business. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's not -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mickey Thompson. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mickey Thompson. He's an 19 architect, but he also -- I mean, we can probably hire him -- 20 actually, I'm not positive he is. I think he is. I know he's 21 a designer. I think he's actually a designer, not an 22 architect. And we can get with him and get him to give us 23 some drawings that are approved. That's -- you know, I guess 24 that's -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, to my mind, it's 8-27-07 144 1 basically -- the site plan part of it is, yeah, we're going to 2 put it here. How does that tie into everything else? That's 3 the minor part of it. The main part is the design part and 4 the drawings, to get what it's going to look like, whenever 5 you go to these places and ask for money. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess if it's multiple 7 facilities -- you're talking about more than one facility, and 8 rehabilitation of others is in place, I guess somebody has to 9 tell you how to position all that to accomplish what you want 10 to do. I don't know. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a draft plan, and, I 12 mean, -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. But, I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- someone who's going to say 15 the sewer's here; here's where the sewer hookup is, here's 16 where the power's going to come from, so we look like what we 17 know what we're talking about when we go ask for money. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where I think a 19 designer and site planner comes into play. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Design basically what you 22 want, and you draw the plans and you put it -- locate it on 23 the site, and then you kind of know you have a place to start. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just put out an RFP for 25 those services. 8-27-07 145 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See what we get. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: RFQ or whatever. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We won't get what we're 4 looking for if we don't. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have to figure out 6 how to word an RFP for what we really want. I mean, I can see 7 us getting everything from big architectural firms to who 8 knows who if you put out an RFP for -- you know, people have 9 big, grandiose ideas of what they think we're going to try to 10 do. We're not too grand in our ideas. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've been down that road 12 before. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now, that's where we get into 15 narrowing down the people that have -- basically, getting down 16 to earth on a plan, and not turning it into some kind of a 17 grandiose -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we have to do an RFP? If 19 we're talking about spending $5,000, plus or minus, or less, 20 why don't we just go find a couple in town, talk to them, and 21 do it? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, maybe that's a good -- 23 good evaluation. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just thought we'd open it up 8-27-07 146 1 to the ones around town, come in and give us their -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once you do an RFP notice -- I 3 mean, if you do a formal RFP, there's going to be costs 4 related to that. Why don't we try to find someone and do it? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We can either do an RFQ, or we could 6 tell Bruce to go beat the bushes and find -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Shake. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- find who might be available to do 9 these kind of things that he's got in mind. General, overall 10 site evaluation and planning, and here's the elements we want 11 in it. And what -- you know, what would you do it for? And 12 bring it back to us. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was just thinking about 14 opening it up to the public, rather than -- so that way they 15 wouldn't say, well, we're picking one person out of the hat, 16 and they're -- you know, I don't want to be in trouble over 17 that, either. They'll say, "Well, you picked one of your 18 friends." That's why I would say advertise for it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can shake one out of my 20 tree. How's that? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can see not -- I just don't 23 think it needs to be a formal RF -- you're talking about 24 certain -- I mean, maybe just put an ad in the paper, or say 25 we're going to be interviewing these on such-and-such a date, 8-27-07 147 1 or if you're interested, contact you or me or whatever. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you work that up, Judge, 3 to where we could do that? I mean, with your legal background 4 and your gift of gab and all that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, wait a minute. If we're 6 talking about legal, we've got a man over here that wears that 7 hat, and -- and gets a check for that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Jody could come up with 9 the language. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect between the folks in the 11 Auditor's office and Rex and I, we can come up with something. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this going to be just a 13 notice in the newspaper? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's not many other ways to 15 advertise. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A notice in the newspaper 17 would actually be the basis for an RFP or RFQ. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're soliciting that back. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a much more informal 21 process. And I don't know that we're at the point we can say 22 this is what we want exactly, as doing an RFP or RFQ. I think 23 we're just saying we'd like to talk to people that are 24 interested in doing this. That's kind of what we're doing. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We're looking at qualifications for 8-27-07 148 1 the type of people that -- that offer the type of services 2 that we think is going to fit this. And, frankly, I don't -- 3 I don't think that's a bad way to go, because what we want is 4 everything short of essentially architectural services on a 5 specific structure. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is what I see. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the right way 9 to do it. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just think it's best to put 11 it out to the public. Every time something is not, there are 12 things that are brought up later about it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Give everybody the same 15 opportunity. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's anybody in your tree, you 17 might want to call it to their attention. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll look in the tree. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody look in their tree. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it were me, I'd go talk to 21 Mickey Thompson and tell him what I wanted, and then let him 22 direct me to those people that do what I want. And he may be 23 one of them. I don't have any -- I'm not sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's kind of -- maybe we can 25 go to this process and contact the ones we want. That way we 8-27-07 149 1 can't say they're not talking to him. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Encourage Mickey to come down 3 here and talk to us. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he will. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Come down whenever we -- 6 whenever we have this -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another one who is an architect 8 that does a lot of this stuff similar is Peter Lewis. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter does a lot of -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get the checkbook out. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He'll do it pro bono for a 13 while. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can work up -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten minutes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know what the point 17 is, but at some point he'll work pro bono. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anyway, I would hope we could 19 run an ad in the paper to ask for people interested in this 20 project with those qualifications to come in and talk to us 21 about it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If we're going to do a public 24 advertisement, I think the Court needs to authorize it today 25 under this agenda item, and -- 8-27-07 150 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 THE CLERK: No motion. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm trying to get it going 4 here, Judge. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm looking at Commissioner 6 Letz to frame the motion. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 8 authorize publishing a public notice for a site planner -- 9 what do you call these things? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Design. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For design and site planners to 12 assist Commissioners Court with ongoing projects previously 13 discussed at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not about to second 15 something like that. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will. I'll second it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Repeat it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Any 19 further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of 20 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge is going to write that? 25 We'll give you input. Is that what I heard? 8-27-07 151 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You can give me input. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I figure out when we're 3 going to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney and Auditor and -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor has been complaining that 7 she's a little short on duties and needs a little something to 8 keep her occupied, so I thought we'd include her on this also. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to put a time frame on 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying we need to get -- we 12 can get the ad figured out. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but we need to make that 14 part of the motion, put a time frame, or we're going to have 15 people come into the court. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they probably need to 17 meet with you and me, and we'll recommend one or two to the 18 Court. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. When we put out the public 21 notice, that will necessarily have to include a "response by," 22 a specific date and time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not more than two -- two weeks, 24 get back to Bruce and I. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 20; consider, 8-27-07 152 1 discuss, and take appropriate action to accept a donation of 2 metal folding chairs from the City of Kerrville, and instruct 3 Maintenance Department to transfer same from Blackwell Fire 4 Station to Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center for storage and 5 use. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This one should be a 7 no-brainer, Judge. The points that were given to me for the 8 Court to take a look at are on the backup material. I'm not 9 sure how many chairs there are, but there's a whole bunch of 10 them. They want to give them to us to store them, use them. 11 If they'd like to borrow them sometimes, they'd like to know 12 that they can do that. Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval. Question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you something. 17 The way I read -- almost read this is that we -- our 18 Maintenance people go over to the Blackwell Fire Station and 19 pick them up and carry them to the Ag Barn and store them. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did Walter and Kyle Bond 22 get into -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They lease space there for 24 Christmas stuff in this particular fire station. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're supposed to notify 8-27-07 153 1 them? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. They bring it to our 3 attention because the chairs are there in the space that 4 they're leasing to store the Christmas stuff. So, here's the 5 deal. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion? 8 All in favor -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to store the 10 chairs, and we're going to -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to own them. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to own them. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. But those are subject 14 to use whenever they want them? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. And they come pick 16 them up and bring them back. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, as long as they pick 18 them up and bring them back. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is the use part? I didn't 20 see that in here. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It says use. We're not 22 just -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Number 5 and Number 6. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If they need them, they can use them. 8-27-07 154 1 And in the event they need them, they pick them up and they'll 2 return them. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's charge them. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't say free of charge. 6 MS. HYDE: Does it say free? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. It says they can use them. 8 I think it's probably implied. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Send them a bill, anyway. If 11 they pay it, they pay it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 13 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Item 21; consider, 18 discuss, take appropriate action on adopting a policy on 19 filing unofficial plats not approved by Commissioners Court in 20 the Kerr County Plat Records or other location in the County 21 Clerk's office. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This came about because one of 23 our local surveyors had a situation -- he had a plat that was 24 exempted under the plat requirements as a family division, but 25 they wanted to file it of record. And I think Jannett has 8-27-07 155 1 actually resolved this issue. I was very uncomfortable with 2 allowing people just to file things in our records just for no 3 -- just because they wanted to, 'cause I can see that being a 4 real problem long-term. Jannett came up with a way that, if 5 they file an affidavit, do it as an attachment to the 6 affidavit; that she has to file affidavits of record, and that 7 would be a little bit more of a control so we don't get a 8 whole bunch of unnecessary documents filed in the county 9 records. So, I think it's kind of been resolved by Jannett's 10 imaginary way of looking at it. 11 MS. PIEPER: Yet it still follows the statutes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, still follows the 13 statute. 'Cause my main concern was, I didn't want unofficial 14 plats being right next to official plats, so we can -- people 15 couldn't tell one from the other, some that were blessed by 16 the Court, some that weren't. And I think that probably 17 resolved it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Way to solve it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So no action is required? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I think this was 22 resolved by the County Clerk. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 22, if nobody 24 else has anything to say on that. Consider, discuss, and take 25 appropriate action on making minor adjustments to Section 8-27-07 156 1 6.02, 6.03 and 6.035 of the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 2 Regulations relating to plat size requirements and O.S.S.F. 3 requirements. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a copy of Court Order 5 30362 in the backup, which takes care of the first part of 6 that. That was done in early July of this year. This is kind 7 of a combination of items that Commissioner Oehler had and I 8 had originally. But the second part of it relating to 9 O.S.S.F. requirements, I just handed out a proposed change. 10 This came about because of the situation that, when you go 11 through the alternate plat process, you don't file a 12 preliminary plat, and it's on the preliminary plat where you 13 locate structures, wells, and O.S.S.F. facilities. So, this 14 language was intended to say that on alternate plat process, 15 you either have to also attach a plat or have a certification 16 from the land surveyor that says no structures, wells, 17 O.S.S.F. systems are located, and that certification has to be 18 on the final plat. And that way, it'll make O.S.S.F.'s life a 19 lot easier, 'cause they'll know right up front in the 20 alternate plat process if there's any structures they need to 21 worry about. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we amend 24 Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations per the 25 language. 8-27-07 157 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated. Any further question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only thing that I would 5 say on that is, that just says that there are none located 6 there. I guess that's to mean that they're not encroaching on 7 any of the -- the revised part of the plat where they moved a 8 lot line or something like that. Where they would still -- by 9 doing this, it would still -- nothing would be affected. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not the way -- yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. The way I look at it, 12 they either say there's no structures there, wells or 13 O.S.S.F., or they have to put the plat that says there -- that 14 locates them. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Locates it on there. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's an encroachment, 17 that -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That they'll show it on the 19 preliminary plat. Which would require -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We talked about this the other 21 day. I believe it is important to change this. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8-27-07 158 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Item 23; 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on setting up a 5 workshop with Bickerstaff, Heath, Delgado, Acosta, Ltd., to 6 review new legislation concerning county subdivision rules and 7 regulations. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. When 9 we were in Austin last week, we met with representatives of 10 Bickerstaff Heath; they also sent us a letter earlier about 11 some of the changes, and they offered, when we were in Austin, 12 to come down and visit with us, and Commissioner Baldwin 13 talked to Claudia -- what's Claudia's last name? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Russell. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Claudia Russell. And she's 16 agreed to do this at no charge. Otherwise, I was going to see 17 if Rex could pay for it out of one of his funds, 'cause we 18 have no money for it. But since she's doing it free of 19 charge, all the better. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay, isn't it, Rex? 21 MR. EMERSON: Free? Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Free's good. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Free's good. But I think it 24 would probably be real helpful, and be good for -- Rex would 25 probably find it interesting as well. This law firm is very 8-27-07 159 1 knowledgeable on subdivision rules and regulations, follows it 2 through the Legislature. We just need to kind of set a time 3 that we can authorize Commissioner Baldwin to set up a 4 meeting. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's offer them two 6 different dates, so we don't have to come back and go back and 7 forth. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just offer two dates at one 9 time, and let them choose one of those. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need to do it before the 11 beginning of the new fiscal year? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We want to do it pretty 15 quick, actually. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We want to do it, because then 17 we can look at these -- yeah, the sooner the better. But late 18 September, early October. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably, like, on an 20 afternoon of one of our Monday meetings, or -- Judge, what 21 does that do to you? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not good for him. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Monday meetings, I've got juvies in 24 the afternoon. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, those kids can wait. 8-27-07 160 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it'll take -- 2 probably an hour? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of them actually can't wait. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: An hour? Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah, they can wait an hour. 6 They can't wait a day, though. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the -- I agree. It 8 shouldn't take over an hour to do the whole thing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eva doesn't seem to think we can 10 do anything in an hour. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sometimes we can't. Got a 12 battery in that thing, Judge? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do it the old-fashioned way, 16 on a calendar. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you think, big man? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. Do 19 y'all like Mondays? Do you like afternoons? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Tuesday, the -- 21 September 18th or 25th, at 1 o'clock? Or 1:30? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tuesday? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tuesday. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 18th. 8-27-07 161 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 18th? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 18th. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 o'clock? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1 o'clock. There's one date. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: September 18th. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, September 18th, 1 o'clock. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the following 8 Tuesday? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 25th? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 25th. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Are we getting into a 12 bind with some of our last-minute tax stuff? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I think we're okay. Same time on 14 the 25th? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 1 o'clock? Is that what I heard? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to ask them 18 which one works best for them? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we have any other 21 workshops we need to do, that may be a time to do that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same time. And if we have 24 other stuff we're working on -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, if you need to sit down 8-27-07 162 1 in workshops, might as well do it in the morning and do this 2 in the afternoon. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Or do it immediately following. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we could have our 5 recommendation to go over our planning function by then. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Got them. We won't know until he 7 brings its back, right? Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Try to get it today. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. That handle that one? 10 Let's move to Item 24; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 11 action on renovation plan for pole barn at Hill Country Youth 12 Exhibit Center and authorize going out for bids for concrete 13 work. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- I'll turn it over to 15 Roy, but the -- we thought the bids were going to come in a 16 little bit lower than they did. We're actually -- I shouldn't 17 say the bids came in -- the scope keeps increasing on the 18 concrete work. So, the -- the bid came in slightly over, by 19 $3, over $25,000, which triggered us going out for bid on this 20 concrete work. And I think, actually, it's a revised plan now 21 a little bit from what I -- 22 MR. WALSTON: I've got a plan -- let me let y'all 23 have it -- we got drawn up. It's a rough draft that we've 24 kind of thrown together, and in an effort ot try to figure out 25 exactly what we're working with, as far as what area. And I 8-27-07 163 1 was trying to -- I included in there -- actually, you may have 2 one extra, yeah. I included in there the storage and 3 concession area, the restroom facilities and maintenance area, 4 or workshop. Not knowing exactly what size you needed, that's 5 kind of what we put together. This is extended a little more 6 than what we originally planned, whereas it's now including 7 moving the road that goes through the pole barn back one more 8 section, so that would allow us 13 lamb and goat pens. And 9 that's the primary reason for that, is on -- we don't -- we 10 really don't know how many numbers we're going to be needing, 11 but I feel like where we'll be, we may can -- we can probably 12 edge out 10, but that extra three lamb pens would sure be a 13 big benefit, because I think that's where our -- a lot of our 14 numbers are going to be coming from. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Roy, how flexible are the hog 16 pens to be traded out for lamb pens? The reason is, you know, 17 I mean, things obviously change over time, but we're certainly 18 in a -- in a goat period right now, and it seems that -- you 19 know, but we may be back in a swine period in another 10 years 20 or 5 years. So -- 21 MR. WALSTON: Well, the only thing -- and I think I 22 understand what you're talking about, as to whether we can -- 23 we can use the hog pens for lamb pens and vice-versa. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Yeah, and vice-versa, by 25 splitting them by dividers or -- 8-27-07 164 1 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. The only difference in those 2 are going to be, the lamb and goat pens are going to be on 3 dirt, and hog pens are going to be concrete. It's -- I say 4 dirt; it's going to be on chaff that they can sweep out and 5 clean up, and where the hog pens are concrete. And other than 6 that, that would be the only thing. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- on this plan, what would 8 be the areas that are concreted? Everything? 9 MR. WALSTON: Everything with the exception of where 10 the lamb and goat pens are. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about that arena that 12 you show -- 13 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh, it would be concreted. You 14 put Astroturf on it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to have a 16 drainage system underneath the concrete? 17 MR. WALSTON: The drainage system will be in the hog 18 pens. They'll be -- be draining out to the outside edge. And 19 that's one of the things that I guess we need to decide, as to 20 what I'm -- what I'm considering on the hog pens and what 21 they're doing at James Madison in San Antonio in their hog 22 facility. The kids go along with a scoop and they clean their 23 pens and they put it in a bucket and pile it up, and we can 24 mix it with that mulch that we mulch from the -- you know, the 25 piles. After they get all the feces picked up, then they -- 8-27-07 165 1 then they wash down the rest of it, and that's not going to 2 leave a whole lot. Our problem with the septic system lies 3 with having shavings, and shavings mixing with the feces, and 4 separating the shavings and the feces in the -- in the septic 5 system. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Septic system or sewer 7 system? 8 MR. WALSTON: Sewer system. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be from before. It 10 would actually get to the sewer, city sewer. 11 MR. WALSTON: So we're trying -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we talked about 13 originally. 14 MR. WALSTON: Trying to get away from that and do it 15 just with the kids going in, cleaning it up. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the old horse born 17 we're talking about? 18 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the -- is the area that 20 you've identified as exercise and maintenance underneath that 21 roof, or is this outside? 22 MR. WALSTON: No, sir, it's outside. It's outside. 23 The only thing that's underneath the roof is basically the -- 24 and, actually, the squares -- the small squares are the poles. 25 It's a -- from the lamb and goat pens to the hog pens is 8-27-07 166 1 what's underneath the roof. It's a 90-by-200-foot barn. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it is, 3 90-by-200? 4 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only problem I see with 6 this really is the fact that -- that we're not to the point 7 yet, we don't have the money to go and do these restrooms and 8 all that stuff. That, we thought, would come later. I mean, 9 it's a good time to get cement poured, but if you don't put 10 your plumbing in and do it, all the planning for this, you're 11 kind of shooting yourself in the foot. So, I'm not -- I'm not 12 a real big fan of going ahead and doing that part. 13 MR. WALSTON: Well, that's -- a lot of this was just 14 to give y'all an idea and us an idea as to how everything 15 would fit together, if this would be something that y'all 16 would be interested in. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would the cost -- how 18 would the cost increase, by how much, if you included the -- 19 putting in the plumbing for restrooms and concession area? 20 MR. WALSTON: The plumbing I don't have figured, 21 just the concrete portion of it. The total concrete, just for 22 the concrete on that -- and that's based on the bid that we 23 got -- would be $53,900. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 53. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for the whole building? 8-27-07 167 1 MR. WALSTON: For the whole building. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is -- 3 MR. WALSTON: And that's not including the plumbing. 4 And the other question I have that I need to ask is, the water 5 lines that are there, do we need to go in and -- and possibly 6 go ahead and redo the water lines that are there? Or do we 7 just assume that they're still going to be in good condition? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most of those water lines, to 9 my recollection, every time I've dug one up out there 10 accidentally, they've been galvanized; they weren't plastic. 11 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you know, I would say 13 they'd be fine. If they're plastic, they should probably be 14 done. But Button would know. Get hold of him. I'm pretty 15 sure the ones that are out there are galvanized. 16 MR. WALSTON: Do they run -- I guess they run down 17 through the center of the barn. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They run through the center of 19 the barn; they come from the big building, my best 20 recollection is off the east wall down, and then they go 21 across the building. Button will know better than I. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City water or well water? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all city water; there is 24 no well water any more. Not unless y'all have hooked it back 25 up. 8-27-07 168 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much water are we looking 2 at? I mean, if you -- in the hog or the pen area, how many 3 hookups are you going to have? 4 MR. WALSTON: Depending on how many -- we'll have 5 one per pen. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Talking about putting 7 automatic waterers in. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going to come in overhead? 9 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh, and have it insulated. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, the line that gets 11 out here is what Bruce is saying; that line's fine, but once 12 you get up into the building, you'd probably be better off 13 running new. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cutting it off on the outside, 17 tying into it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, you don't want to have 19 anything break under the slab. 20 MR. WALSTON: See, that's what I was wondering, is 21 how it came into the building, but we can figure that out as 22 to -- and then everything inside, 'cause that -- I didn't want 23 it breaking underneath the slab, and then we're back to square 24 one. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the -- the storage area for 8-27-07 169 1 the fair and for the livestock show, is that just to hold it 2 in place, or is that the amount that they want? Can you 3 recall? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They wanted 1,200 square feet. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought they wanted more than 6 that. I mean, I think from -- 7 MR. WALSTON: And I didn't know -- I did not realize 8 what they wanted. We just -- that's basically one of the -- 9 where they can frame in one of those -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're a long way from 1,200 11 square feet here. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Roy and I talked about 14 it before the meeting today, and my suggestion would be, the 15 plan here originally proposed less pens, and only took up 16 basically half of the building, and that would leave enough 17 space to do all the other storages that need to be done, plus 18 a shop for Tim to build things in and a concession and 19 restrooms. And if -- my thought is that we go with kind of 20 the original plan, and just do -- you know, don't cement the 21 whole thing till we get ready to do the rest of that plan. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think we -- we're not 24 to the point -- we don't have the money, number one, to do 25 this down here. Even if it were just the concrete, we don't 8-27-07 170 1 have that money available. And -- and then, at some point in 2 time, it's not real expensive to add onto that pavilion type 3 building back to the west, add another section, which is just 4 a roof. You know, it's not that expensive to add those things 5 on later. If they -- if they have enough kids participate in 6 this and they run out of space, that could be done relatively 7 cheap. 8 MR. WALSTON: The outside -- basically, what we're 9 looking at for the outside is going to be a -- a shade cloth, 10 heavy shade cloth material that allows some air ventilation 11 through there, but then keep rain and any bad -- bad weather 12 out. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just my thought. I 14 think that we're -- we don't have but a certain amount of 15 money budgeted. And I know there's another individual or two 16 or three that will pick up the cost of the balance, whatever 17 we don't have when it comes to all the plumbing and 18 electricity and all the pens and all the finish out part. 19 There are other people that are going to pay for it. But I 20 think we need to stick with what we -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should we -- Bruce, in your 22 mind, do you think just do half the building concrete, and 23 then leave the -- even the maintenance area off? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. I'm not -- are you 25 talking about leaving the maintenance area out for now? 8-27-07 171 1 That's -- I agree. I'm just saying not do anything -- 2 anything at all -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To leave the east half of the 4 building dirt floor, as-is? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Dirt floor, as-is, till we 6 have time to plan what we're going to do in there, and do it 7 right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I'd like to give a 9 little more consideration to the Fair Association, too. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They need the space. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree. They said 13 they wanted a 30-by-40, and I think that space is available, 14 and if we don't take it up completely with this right now. 15 MR. WALSTON: I think we've got actually in the bid 16 that we submitted -- or actually in the -- in the drawing or 17 the concrete that we figured is including the driveway that is 18 there now. So, that's actually going to be -- one, two, 19 three, four -- it would be about -- about five sections of it, 20 five of the eight sections. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How often would all these 22 pens be used? 23 MR. WALSTON: How often? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. WALSTON: They'll be used from -- we'll start 8-27-07 172 1 buying animals in June, and they'll stay -- some of those 2 animals will be in there till February, March. Pigs will be 3 starting about first of September, and they'll be in there 4 till January, February, March. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's almost a year-round 6 thing. But I sure am -- you know, I know how much money we 7 have that's available, and I don't believe we ought to exceed 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think what Roy's 10 plan to do the five bay area they'd have done originally, just 11 go ahead with that, and leave the -- scale back a little bit 12 on the number of pens, and leave the whole maintenance area 13 and restrooms and all that off for the time being. We can 14 always add that as a second project. 15 MR. WALSTON: That would be something that we 16 probably -- as far as if we have to, if it -- numbers-wise, 17 right now, like I say, sheep and goats are really increasing. 18 If we need to go in there and -- and use part of that hog barn 19 or hog pen area, we can probably figure out a way to make that 20 work. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm wondering if, in doing 22 it the way you're suggesting, Jonathan, if we can't figure out 23 how to take care of the Fair Association people now in this 24 reconfiguration a little bit. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think if you -- I think 8-27-07 173 1 the Fair Association said they were going to pay for it to 2 start with. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that -- you know, 5 and I'd rather -- in this kind of a building, having some cold 6 joints isn't a big deal in my mind. It's a storage building; 7 that's all it's going to be, so if we have some cold joints in 8 there, I don't see that as a problem. I think we need to get 9 this going, and then I think we need -- the next step would be 10 probably Fair Association, Stock Show Association, if they 11 want some space there, and then maintenance, which -- and all 12 those are still plumbing-free. And the final step -- or 13 maybe, at the same time, do the restrooms and the other stuff. 14 I think we probably need to add restrooms pretty soon, but I 15 just think we need to get this part going and then come back 16 and do the rest of it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we'll see, too, what 18 happens with the upcoming -- this coming year's budget. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we're going to have funds 21 available to do some of this, you know, not terribly expensive 22 work, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we can start it. But the 24 $25,000 is all we have to put in for the concrete. In the -- 25 Roy's part, there's a max of $25,000 in this year's budget, 8-27-07 174 1 and we've kind of committed that for this project, for that. 2 Then the rest of it's donated funds for 4-H projects. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There was some mention that the 4 estimates came in over the $25,000 bid threshold. I'm given 5 to understand that that $25,000 increases to $50,000. I don't 6 know the effective date, but I think it's fairly soon. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: September 1, according to what 8 we learned in Uvalde. Right, Buster? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. Which is 10 this weekend, I think. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Long as -- so we can wait till 12 Monday and award a contract, Rex? (Laughter.) 13 MR. EMERSON: I think I need to see your update 14 material before I answer that, 'cause that wasn't part of the 15 update that I went to. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Need to go to Uvalde more 17 often, I can see that. 18 MR. EMERSON: I think you're just getting a little 19 close to the border, Buster. The rules kind of change. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm no design expert, but 21 wouldn't it be more appropriate in that second phase to move 22 those restrooms over there so they're back to back with that 23 big concession area, where you're going to need a lot of 24 plumbing, instead of the original area back in there? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why we need a site 8-27-07 175 1 planner and designer. 2 MR. WALSTON: I'm glad y'all see how much trouble it 3 is trying to figure out how to do this. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You better stick to sheep 5 and goats. 6 MR. WALSTON: Well, the problem is, if you put -- 7 the reason we put it out there is so that they'd have an 8 outside -- outside door to where they could get to it, and 9 wouldn't have to... 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll work on that plan. 11 Let's work on that later. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 MR. WALSTON: That can be -- that can be moved. 14 This is just a -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just get the 4-H pens 16 going; that's what we need right now. 17 MR. WALSTON: Now, we did want to have it set up to 18 where the -- where the restrooms were available for both 19 sides, where you can lock it off. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Roy, when you're talking 21 about buying the hogs, start buying them September 1, they -- 22 this is for kids that don't have a ranch or a place to house 23 and raise their animals, so they can do it right here and come 24 out there daily and -- 25 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. And I had a lady call day 8-27-07 176 1 before yesterday or yesterday -- or I guess -- I guess 2 Friday -- Thursday or Friday, and that situation, she has a 3 young -- has a son that's in third grade, would like to start 4 showing, and -- and I asked her, I said, well, you know -- 5 'cause lambs and goats, a lot of people are putting them in 6 their back yards. But I said hogs -- I said, "do you have a 7 place to keep it?" "No, I don't have a place." 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the city of Kerrville 9 ought to allow that, actually. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Think they ought to? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think River Hills, especially. 13 MR. WALSTON: As long as it's not your neighborhood. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could have it right next to 16 the golf course; that would be a good place. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Careful, Bruce, I live over 18 there. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now that we've taken all 20 that fertilizer out of Camp Meeting Creek, I guess we can -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Add some back. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. So, we need to -- 23 what do we need to do? We need to approve the portion of the 24 site plan that we approved, and authorize -- 25 MR. WALSTON: Put it up for bids, or not? 8-27-07 177 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'd say authorize doing 2 it. If we don't have to, we don't have to. Authorize going 3 out for bids on the concrete work on five of the bay areas -- 4 up to five of the bay areas. 5 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. It's -- let me see. I can tell 6 you how many square feet that is. That's what you actually 7 need it for. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 3,700 and -- no, that 9 wasn't -- how much was that? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty reasonable. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: More than that. What was that 12 original plan, Roy? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's looking. Original bid, 14 that's what you're looking for? 15 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 8,700 square feet. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8,700? I'll make a motion that 17 we approve the plan as revised today for the renovation of the 18 pole barn, and authorize going out for bids on the western 19 8,700 square foot portion of that concrete. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 22 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8-27-07 178 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We'll move to Item 3 25; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 4 what level of workers compensation should be carried on 5 Sheriff's Office reserve deputies. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. I attached a copy of the 7 original court order in 2005 which gave the authority to have 8 10 reserve deputies and to cover workers comp on those 10. 9 Now, we haven't had any since then. I do have three that I 10 would like to swear in as soon as possible. And as part of 11 that court order back then, it did say to approve workers 12 compensation. You can see the ratio printout from what 13 workers comp would cost adding volunteers to it, and it starts 14 out at 177 a month -- or a year, rather, per reserve, and goes 15 up from there at $5,200 increments, as if you were saying that 16 that's the salary level, even though they aren't. If you put 17 the reserves saying that they were close to a starting deputy, 18 what that would amount to is 5,200 times 6, and that wouldn't 19 even be quite a starting deputy, but would amount to a cost of 20 $1,066.62 per year for workers comp for the reserve. I know 21 the workers comp pays the medical bills, but these guys are 22 volunteering their time, and at the low end of that ratio, if 23 one got hurt on duty, it's only paying them $78 a week while 24 they're out of work, from whatever job they would normally 25 have. And this expense in the -- the bonds, each reserve has 8-27-07 179 1 to have a $2,000 bond, which I can come up with funds for 2 that; that's about $50 for the bond, and then we provide the 3 uniform and vest and that out there out of what we currently 4 have. I think it can save this county a lot of money. Two of 5 the three that I want to swear in as reserves right now could 6 actually get a patrol car tonight if we wanted to and are 7 short, and put them out on the road to work the full shifts, 8 'cause they've already been officers with us before, and the 9 benefits would be tremendous over hiring new officers. I just 10 don't know what level y'all want to set the compensation at. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many do you have on 12 staff now? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Reserves? None, because their 14 workers comp hasn't been picked up, 'cause I haven't had any 15 yet. Now we're at the point finally where we have the program 16 set and I've got good people. The thing with reserves with 17 our department -- and that's why we haven't had any; they are 18 fully certified, qualified peace officers. They're going to 19 -- they're not going to be people off the street. These 20 people can work shifts. They can help out at the courthouse. 21 They volunteer their time, so the work schedule's different, 22 but if I have some off, they can actually get in a car and 23 work. I can give you the name of two of the three that I want 24 to swear in as reserves. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there's six of them, and 8-27-07 180 1 at 177? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, what I was talking about, 3 it's the level of workers comp you want to have on them. If 4 you have -- have the lowest level -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- then it's 177 a year. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want to get it closer to 9 what a -- a starting salary is for a deputy -- now, you're not 10 paying that salary; it's just the same type benefits as far as 11 workers comp -- then you would have to multiply that 177 times 12 six. That's -- it's 177.77, so it would be $1,066.62 a year 13 for each reserve to be added to the workers comp. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And at the minimum -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not the -- the minimum would be 16 the 177. It's just what level do you want to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then, at the 1,066.62 18 level, how much would they get per week? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, at the 177 level, they're 20 getting $78 per week. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 1,066.62 level would just about 23 put them equivalent to what a normal deputy would get. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 468. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you asking for? 8-27-07 181 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: These people are going to 2 volunteer a lot of time and a lot of risk, and if they get 3 hurt doing their job that they're not getting paid for, and 4 can't work, I think we should at least compensate them in that 5 through the workers comp program equivalent to what any other 6 deputy would have, which would be paying that premium of 7 $1,066.62 per year, per reserve. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Times three deputies now? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right now, three. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, if he puts three on, that's 11 per -- per reserve deputy. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And anytime that I would add 13 another -- there's a couple of real good officers with the 14 City fixing to retire that I wouldn't mind adding. That can 15 wait till after -- well, I won't say it would be after 16 January, because this deal is January to January, is y'all's 17 workers comp, not October to October. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: January 1 through 19 December 31? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. So, anytime we would add 21 one on, it would add -- it would cost another $1,066. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There's no proration of that, either, 24 of that premium. There's no proration. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 8-27-07 182 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If they come on for the last half of 2 the year, it's not half of the premium. You pay it whether or 3 not you use nine months out of the year, 90 days out of the 4 year, or the entire 12 months. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any assurance they're 6 going to work? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure. It's part of my 8 requirements in being a reserve. They have -- they're going 9 to -- at one time, TCLEOSE had -- they had to do 20 hours a 10 month. They took away all that, okay? The reserve program 11 that we have instituted does not have a set number of hours, 12 but it is a reserve program. If we have people that don't 13 want to work and don't want to donate hours per month, they're 14 not -- they're not going to be a reserve for us. There's no, 15 technically, hiring and firing. It's -- I need these people 16 to be able to volunteer and be able to work, and that's one of 17 the reasons we're very selective, is if we have a big trial 18 coming up, we're short-handed on the street. I expect to be 19 able to get these people to work. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happens if you have one 22 that is no longer there and you bring in another one? Are we 23 going to have to pay a second premium on that one? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know how that part 25 would work. I don't know if that's a new premium and drop the 8-27-07 183 1 first one, or if you just set 10 and pay 10, you know, every 2 year, or what you -- I don't know how -- what the particulars 3 would be on that, Bruce. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like if you had 5 three and one left and then another one came, you'd still 6 maintain the three you said we were going to have that we paid 7 for in the beginning. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What do they do with worker's 9 comp now? 10 MS. HARGIS: I think -- well, they do an audit at 11 the end of the year. But I think if you probably choose a 12 number and you pay it, it wouldn't matter if one came in and 13 left, as long -- it's the number of people. It's not -- it's 14 not based on that particular person. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as you maintain the 16 number. If you don't maintain the number and it drops to two 17 and you've been authorized to have three, you pay for -- 18 you're not going to get a refund. 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, when they do the audit, they do 20 give you some money back, depending on how many people you 21 actually had, what your payroll really was, so forth and so 22 on. It's all taken into consideration. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, in reality, you're not 24 insuring the individual; you're insuring the position. 25 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 8-27-07 184 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we -- you already have the 2 authority to hire reserves? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, in your -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under that court order? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under that court order. The 6 Court unanimously approved, by a vote of 4-0-0, authorized the 7 Sheriff to initiate a reserve deputy sheriff program, up to 10 8 deputies, and include workers compensation for volunteers. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we agree 10 to fund three positions through workers compensation for the 11 Sheriff's Office Reserve Deputy program, with the amount of 12 $1,066.62 the premium per position. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Effective when? Talking 14 about January 1? Or now? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, on this, I would like it to 16 be effective as soon as possible on the three. January 1, I'd 17 like to add more to it, because there are some other ones that 18 would like -- but -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have money in your budget 20 for this? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As long as there's any left in 22 my deputy -- in my jailer salaries any more. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion, subject -- 24 subject to the Sheriff coming up with the funds in his budget. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 8-27-07 185 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is there any amendments taking 2 any more of out of my jailer salaries? I want this in there 3 first. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 5 stated. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Would this rescind the 7 previous order that -- authorizing up to 10? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Just rolling -- we're only 9 funding three. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just funding. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Funding three right now, and 12 hopefully after the new budget, I'll try and get the other 13 ones. 14 MS. HYDE: Funding them at what grade? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At the rate -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Six increments per. Six increments 17 of 5,200 per. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, so it's actually 31,200. 19 MS. HYDE: The salary, that's what you put them -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is no salary, but that's 21 what they have to have them in at. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8-27-07 186 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you, gentlemen. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 26; consider, discuss, take 6 appropriate action to discuss the possibility of the City of 7 Ingram entering into a contract with Kerr County for animal 8 control. Commissioner Oehler? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Dan Edwards called the 10 other day and asked to meet with Janie Roman, myself, and also 11 Howard Jackson came, the mayor, and we sat and talked about it 12 for quite a while and came up with some numbers. I thought 13 Janie would be here. Of course, I didn't tell her; I forgot 14 to tell her we were doing this, so she's not here. But -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got -- you got the Honorable 16 Mayor of Ingram. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Honorable Mayor of Ingram 18 is here. 19 MR. JACKSON: I don't know about the "honorable." 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm somewhat 21 questionable too in that sense. 22 MR. JACKSON: Depends on who you talk to. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We came up with kind of a -- a 24 semblance of a plan that we thought might work, and that being 25 that we could add a half an employee. We'd already authorized 8-27-07 187 1 a half an employee for a kennel worker, and we could increase 2 that to a full worker in this year -- upcoming year's budget, 3 and then it would be the ordinary costs of operation, and felt 4 like that it could be done. Under -- the first figures that 5 we talked about, that Janie came up with, were -- were fairly 6 high, a figure of 40,000, and we went down and talked as low 7 as 30,000 on these to be able to do animal control for the 8 City of Ingram. They've just lost an officer who got killed 9 in a car wreck and that was doing the animal control. And 10 they have had a contract with us, as you well know, for the 11 last -- oh, I don't know how many years, where you have -- 12 you're able to bring us 10 dogs per month for $350 a month. 13 That's what the contract has been up to now. And so I'd kind 14 of like to throw it out on the table and let Mr. Jackson tell 15 us what's on his mind. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question, 17 though, before we go to Mr. Jackson. So, we're -- you want to 18 take a halftime kennel worker and make it a full-time. How 19 does that help us go out to Ingram and get -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you'd actually increase 21 that to a -- it would be a part-time kennel worker and 22 part-time animal control person. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is what it would wind up 25 being. 8-27-07 188 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be half -- it wouldn't just be 3 a kennel worker. You'd have to get a person that had some 4 qualifications in that job, more so than just a kennel worker. 5 But you felt like without -- with -- for that amount of 6 increase in the budget, besides the fact we need to increase 7 gas and oil and FICA and all that, you know, everything that 8 goes with it, I think the base cost is going to be somewhere 9 around 30,000. It could be a little bit less if we wanted to 10 negotiate this, throw it on the table. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we just do like City 12 of Kerrville; make them pay a percentage based on pickups? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could do that. They did -- 14 like, I believe -- what were the numbers she gave you the 15 other day, Howard? 16 MR. JACKSON: I think it was 15 -- 57. I don't 17 remember right off the top of my head. Something like that. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to make it easier 20 long-range, and keeps us consistent with what we're doing with 21 Kerrville, is divide up our budget based on a portion of 22 costs. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They really haven't brought us 24 very many animals that need to be picked up. Their initial 25 year, first year is going to be a lot. 8-27-07 189 1 MR. JACKSON: That's part of it. Probably both from 2 a budgetary standpoint, and like Commissioner Oehler's saying, 3 we really don't know what that's going to be when the job is 4 being properly done. No reflection on Mr. Andrade, but he had 5 so many hats that he couldn't really take care of any one of 6 them properly. It's not his fault. It's just -- there's just 7 too much to do. So, somehow or another, what we need to do is 8 figure out some -- what I'm thinking is some sort of interim 9 for, say, the first year, and let's see what we get, and kind 10 of -- and we also discussed about our municipal court 11 processing violations and collecting that revenue. I don't 12 know what that's going to be. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. And you're going to 14 get -- 15 MR. JACKSON: So we can -- my thought is, we use 16 part of that revenue to offset some of that cost, and -- but 17 we really don't know what we're going to run into from your 18 standpoint or mine. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. And Janie was also 20 saying that, you know, they have their own registration fees 21 for the animals, the owner registrations, just like the county 22 has registration fees, and they'd get to keep that revenue, as 23 well as they generate revenue off the citations that were 24 written. And, you know, it will be a fair amount of work in 25 the beginning to try to get it on track and get people 8-27-07 190 1 educated to what, you know, animal control's really about and 2 how to keep their animals, you know, penned up or -- or 3 whatever in order to keep them from roaming around. But the 4 initial year is going to be a learning curve for everybody. 5 And I -- you know, I think it's a good deal. That way we'll 6 have universal, uniform rules, county-wide, basically, that 7 cover animal control. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. I mean, that's -- 9 long-term, it sounds like y'all are going to go to kind of 10 allocation of budget. That's where I was going. So -- 11 MR. JACKSON: I think at this point, what we need to 12 do is come up with some kind of number that we can both live 13 with for the first year, and then we'll look at it next year 14 and see; we'll have some numbers and data to work with, and 15 then we can really get down to... 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well. My question is, the 18 Animal Control budget that was presented so far contains a 19 certain level of staffing, and you had advised the City what 20 we thought that was going to be. Now we're going to add some 21 more staffing. Are we picking up that total tab, or are they 22 picking up that tab? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that would be 24 included -- whatever we agreed upon in the contract, that 25 would help fund that -- offset the cost of that additional -- 8-27-07 191 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It wouldn't affect our split 2 with the City? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not this year. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not this year at all. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what he's saying, 6 Commissioner, is that this -- this additional add-on will, in 7 essence, fund the staff and the related supplies and equipment 8 and so forth for requirements in order to have another part of 9 a person added in order to take care of this additional 10 obligation to the City of Ingram. That's -- 11 MR. JACKSON: I did think of one thing. It's 12 probably not a lot, but I have no idea how much equipment that 13 we have that we would no longer need. There may be something 14 you can use; I don't know. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're looking for a pickup 16 bed. 17 MR. JACKSON: I don't think we've got that, but I'm 18 thinking of the -- the tools. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Catch poles. 20 MR. JACKSON: Catch poles and whatever, I don't even 21 know. But whatever we have would be surplus to us. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the number 30,000, y'all 23 have agreed? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's what we kind of 25 got down to. 8-27-07 192 1 MR. JACKSON: I wouldn't say we agreed to that. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They didn't agree to this. I 3 asked them to come in and we could negotiate with the Court. 4 I'm thinking, you know, that realistically -- I mean, actual 5 dollar cost, which is what we're trying to do with everybody, 6 you know, you add the other half an employee, and you get it 7 up there to 25 for sure. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they're only at 4,200 9 right now. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're at 4,200, so they 11 would already have that basically in the budget. And increase 12 their budget, like, 21,000 or something like that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. JACKSON: That would be a stretch. I'd have to 15 run some numbers on my budget. Of course, we're talking about 16 a $700,000 budget, versus -- I don't even know what yours is, 17 but percentage-wise, it's a good chunk. What I've looked at 18 initially, I can come up with probably about 20, maybe 21. 19 And that's really stretching it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd be willing to do that. 21 MR. JACKSON: That's just -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll have to dip into the 23 mayor's discretionary funds, Howard. 24 MR. JACKSON: Yeah, I can take it out of my salary. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought that -- I thought the 20 to 8-27-07 193 1 21, you'd already depleted your salary in that account, 2 though; you'd already thrown your salary in. 3 MR. JACKSON: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's scraping 4 everything we got. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Make a motion. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that for the -- you 7 said you had 21,000 you could deal with? 8 MR. JACKSON: I can -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can scrape up 21,000? 10 MR. JACKSON: I can squeeze that rock that hard. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't do 25, but -- 12 MR. JACKSON: Seriously, I -- I ran my calculator 13 all weekend trying to trim here and there. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move that we contract -- 15 contract with the City of Ingram to do their animal control 16 services for one year for this 2007-2008 budget year, $21,000, 17 and that that be reviewed after the end of this year for next 18 year's contract. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 21 indicated. Further question or discussion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the proper interlocal 23 agreement will be forwarded through the legal -- through 24 Mr. Edwards and Mr. Emerson. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Emerson review the 8-27-07 194 1 contract. 2 MR. JACKSON: I think they know each other. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? All in 4 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. 9 MR. JACKSON: Appreciate it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your patience waiting 11 on us. 12 MR. JACKSON: This would be effective October 1? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Effective October 1. 14 MR. JACKSON: Well, you're covering for us now, so 15 it really is not going to change a whole lot. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can do just like we do the 17 -- we pay ours to the city in 12 installments. We don't pay 18 it all in one lump sum. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can pay it all up front if 20 you want. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can pay it all up front if 22 you want. 23 MR. JACKSON: If I hang onto it, I can get a few 24 percent interest there. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8-27-07 195 1 MR. JACKSON: Thank you, gentlemen. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, mayor. Okay. I guess 3 it goes without saying we don't have any executive session 4 items, do we, gentlemen? Okay, let's get to -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get to the part that the 6 Auditor loves the best. Section 4, payment of bills. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the new format, madam 8 Auditor. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What are you talking about? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Budget amendments. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll get to that 12 momentarily. Right now we're talking about paying the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 16 bills. Any question or discussion? I had a couple of 17 questions that I left voicemail messages on. I don't know 18 whether you had an opportunity to get them yet. The first 19 one, Page 2, Columbia Casualty Company, professional, R. 20 McCall, $7,500? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wondered about that 22 myself. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I comes out of Commissioners Court 24 budget. Is that a deductible, maybe? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I -- the name R. McCall does 8-27-07 196 1 sound like it could be a deductible in a lawsuit that had been 2 dismissed. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That would be a deductible? 4 MS. HARGIS: Yes. If you like, I can look at it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go to Page 16. 6 MS. HARGIS: We had a $10,000 deductible. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 8 MS. HARGIS: I remember that. Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Last entry. Linda Uecker, 10 reimbursement for postage, $3,000? 11 MS. HARGIS: I didn't look at that one, but I can 12 check on it. 13 MR. EMERSON: She mailed her Christmas presents 14 early, Judge. (Laughter.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I don't know that we should even 16 think about having an expectation that any of our elected 17 officials or department heads or employees should have to 18 advance out of their own pocket for the County's benefit -- 19 now, I know Rusty has -- Rusty does some on his credit card; 20 they do them with prisoners and that sort of stuff, and -- and 21 I think that's probably where people are off up in Tennessee 22 and they call Rusty and said, "Oops, hit a snag," and he says, 23 "All right, give them this credit card number; let it rip," 24 and then he comes back. That's extraordinary. But -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, would this really 8-27-07 197 1 mean to -- "reimburse" may not be right. It's probably to 2 reconstitute the postage machine. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but the payee is listed as 4 Linda Uecker. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I see that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And it shows "reimbursement." 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And a big number. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a real big number; got my 10 attention right away. 11 MS. HARGIS: We shared signing off, and this is not 12 one I signed off on, so I can't give you the answer. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to pull the bill? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 15 MS. HARGIS: I won't even guess. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eva may be going up there to 17 get her or something; I saw her leave. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 66683. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 16. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I thought you were doing it 22 on the new one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. Those are the only two I 24 had. 25 MS. HARGIS: Anybody else? 8-27-07 198 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't remember what number 2 we're supposed to look at. 3 MS. HARGIS: 6683. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She also fixed the door chime. 6 That was only 29.90, though. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What page are you on? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 16. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm on 16. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 MS. HYDE: She has a machine, and they have to feed 12 it. So, in order to feed it, you have to pay for it up front. 13 So, she has the money in her budget, and she's just asking to 14 move the money to pay it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So it's not from her personal 16 funds? 17 MS. HYDE: No, it's for the Pitney Bowes automatic 18 machine. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Payee should read "Pitney Bowes." 20 MS. HYDE: Or whoever it is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Or Postmaster. And it should read 22 "postage," period. 23 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not reimbursement. 25 MS. HYDE: To feed the machine. 8-27-07 199 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just means her office 3 evidently -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I know she mails out jury 5 notices and all that other stuff, and she uses a lot of 6 postage. But, okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: We're switching people in my office, 8 too. Joy's doing this all by herself, and Nona's doing 9 something else, and I think she may have been -- this is -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions? Do you 11 have a motion? 12 THE CLERK: We have a motion and a second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to budget 19 amendments. As I left a message for you, Ms. Hargis, I like 20 this new format. What I see it as being available to us is, 21 with one motion, to approve all the budget amendments as per 22 the summary, unless somebody wants to pull one of them out and 23 talk about it individually. 24 MS. HARGIS: And those are here for you as well, 25 just like the old style. 8-27-07 200 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I've got a whole file here. 2 Thank you. My -- another question I left for you was on Item 3 Number 12, Juvenile Probation, alternate housing, 27,6. On 4 that one, you have declaration of emergency and come from 5 reserves. I think my question is, why are Jailer Salaries not 6 available to us for that one also? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause y'all have done sucked 8 that well dry, probably. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 10 MS. HARGIS: No, not yet. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got another month to suck 12 it dry. 13 MS. HARGIS: That was Tommy's call on that one. I 14 asked the same question. It was my opinion we just take it 15 from any surplus -- from the surplus from that item. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather take it from jailers. 18 MS. HARGIS: Rather than declare -- in other words, 19 he's out of budget, but then we -- as long as we have budget 20 within our whole budget, I think that we're okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: After 10 and 11, it comes down to -- 22 looks like 106 left in jailer salaries. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 127 at least -- yeah, but if you 24 take this one out of jailer salaries, he'll be down to about 25 $80,000 still. 8-27-07 201 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the only thing I will tell 2 you is I don't have any more option, okay? So, we're going to 3 have the last few months of this budget year at full staff, 4 and then hopefully the 3,000 on the -- say 3,100 on the 5 workers comps is what I'm going to be needing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your monthly jail 7 salaries? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That the -- I couldn't tell you 9 without going back and looking it up, what the full month 10 would be. 11 MS. HYDE: About 30K. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A month at full staff. 13 MS. HYDE: About 30K a payroll here at full staff. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Full payroll would be 60 grand a 15 month, then? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're still okay; have about 17 20,000 extra. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to get it, 19 Sheriff. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I know you're going to get 21 it. I'm not worried about that. 22 MS. HARGIS: We have some other items, too, that we 23 could -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There were, for a short time -- 25 if we had to, there were the two deputy openings for one or 8-27-07 202 1 two pay periods, which would give you probably 15 total, 2 something like that. You know, somewhere around that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take it out of jailer salaries. 4 Then we can look at them; maybe have to put a little money 5 back if we have to in September. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: With that change, do I hear a motion 7 to approve all the budget amendments as per the summary 8 provided by the Auditor's office? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a second? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second. Any 14 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you see him sign this, 20 Madam Auditor? Hallelujah. Thank you. 21 MS. HARGIS: There was only 18 this time. Last time 22 there were 31. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Still a lot of paper 24 shuffling. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Do we have any late bills? 8-27-07 203 1 Ms. Hargis? 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 4 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been presented with 6 monthly reports from Justice of the Peace Precinct 3, Justice 7 of the Peace Precinct 4, District Clerk, Constable Precinct 3, 8 and County Clerk, both general and trust funds. Do I hear a 9 motion that these reports be approved as presented? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 13 indicated. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Any reports from 19 any Commissioners in connection with their liaison assignments 20 or otherwise? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, a quick one for Ms. Hargis. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At this time of year, we tend to 24 do a whole lot of these summaries. 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8-27-07 204 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you make sure you date them? 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because the one that's on the 4 web site I don't think is the current one. I pulled one -- 5 well, the one I got last -- Friday? I think from Jody -- 6 MS. HARGIS: John put the -- yeah, he put the wrong 7 one out initially, and he was supposed to switch those out for 8 me. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, just so we make sure. 10 It's easier for me to keep track of which one. 11 MS. HARGIS: Right after I sent it to him, John 12 Trolinger got ahold of me, and we didn't put the new position 13 on there, so I had to go back immediately and change it. And 14 he was in my office and left, and was supposed to go change 15 it, and he may not have. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. If we have dates on them 17 that way, it just helps me. Another comment. Tomorrow, on 18 airport matters on tomorrow evening's City Council agenda, the 19 City Manager is going to present the issue of the Airport 20 Manager reporting to the Airport Board to them. I had a 21 little bit of a problem initially with him doing it in this 22 format, because I don't think it's the City Council's 23 decision; it's the Airport Board's decision. But his logic 24 was that they are party to both the management contract and 25 the interlocal agreement between the City and the County. 8-27-07 205 1 They seem to think it affects that agreement. I don't -- I've 2 read it again, and I don't see how it affects that. But the 3 management contract is certainly handled by the City Council. 4 So, that's the reason he's doing it. And I plan on attending 5 that meeting and will make a brief statement -- hopefully a 6 brief statement. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're saying is, it's going the 8 right direction? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We hope. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Or it appears to be going the right 11 direction. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't know. The -- the -- from 13 my meeting with Mr. Hofmann last week, I anticipate his 14 statement to be, "The votes on the Airport Board are to do it, 15 but I don't support it," being -- "I" being him. He doesn't 16 want to make a change, so I'm not sure how Council's going to 17 receive that kind of a split direction. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you a sporting man, Mr. Letz? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's why I think I'll 20 attend the meeting. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good idea. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and also, the mayor has 23 voiced opposition to this in the past, so I don't -- and if 24 the Council says no, it doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. 25 It just may make things a little bit rockier to get in. 8-27-07 206 1 Because it's not their call. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I told Commissioner 3 Letz I had a chance meeting with the mayor in the parking lot 4 at Albertsons the other day, and he was quick and loud to tell 5 me that he'd been looking at those contracts, and he's got 6 some suggestions on how they get modified. I don't know what 7 that means. I wouldn't presume to try to translate that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, what -- from what 9 Mr. Hofmann's told me, he's presenting, even though it's not 10 his recommendation to do it, scenarios to enable it to be 11 done. So, I'm not -- you know, I got probably mixed signals 12 out of that meeting, so I'm not exactly sure what Council's 13 going to do. I hope it's to go with the recommendation, what 14 the Airport Board wants. And my plan is to really try to stay 15 above that fray and really talk more about the Chapter 22 16 interlocal -- of the Transportation Code, and explain that 17 this is not a part of the city or the county; it's an 18 independent board, and that board has spoken as to how it 19 feels it should proceed. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in the airport vein, 21 Judge, the consultant who's doing the work for the Airport 22 Board has scheduled a whole series of meetings with Airport 23 Board members and City Manager and et cetera, et cetera. 24 Coming up, what, next week? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: September 11th. 8-27-07 207 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: September 11th. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think they're sending a 3 second consultant; this is not going to be Bobbie Thompson. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's the head guy. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The head guy. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Head guy. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. It's a second 8 round of the same with a different person. You know, I'm not 9 sure what that means. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. I will -- one other 12 interest. There is a -- "flurry" might be a little bit 13 strong, but a bit of a flurry of activity of people inquiring 14 about building private hangar facilities at the airport. 15 There are three that are on the table right now. We're not -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Board's being kept in its 18 usual -- a little bit in the dark on these, so we're not sure 19 exactly what the status of all of them are, but we are aware 20 that they're going to be presented, I think, at our next board 21 meeting. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Does the City Manager 23 negotiate those deals? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, not going to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 8-27-07 208 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One has been presented, one 2 is going to be presented, and one's -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not sure. Some -- I have 4 been told by third parties that some of the them have already 5 been negotiated without the board looking at them. But, 6 anyway, that's -- we'll hopefully get the results. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will tell the Court, I got 8 a major missile from the Texas Water Development Board with a 9 request that they're looking for to sort out what they want to 10 hear and see and evaluate on our application for Center Point, 11 eastern Kerr County, some things that need to be provided to 12 me by the Auditor's office. Some I need to review with you, 13 Mr. County Attorney. I put one in your box, Commissioner, 14 because they had some suggestions about things that they 15 wanted to deal with on our Subdivision Rules and Regs. We 16 have to have what they think is a model subdivision rules and 17 regs. At first I was concerned about that, but then I kept 18 reading, and they have a very simple solution for us to just 19 throw a body of things they like on the tail end of ours to 20 accomplish what they're looking for. But I'll get with you on 21 how we deal with that. We'll sort it out, get all that 22 information back. I have a telephone call from Mr. Groves; 23 he's going to continue working with us, Judge. You and I had 24 some discussion about that, and we'll take it as long -- as 25 far as we can. And -- 8-27-07 209 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is all neither good nor 2 bad; this is just paperwork? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. It's part of the 4 process. No, it's not good or bad; it's part of the process. 5 And also, I sent a draft letter of intent to the City for 6 their review, and perhaps consideration. I've not heard an 7 acknowledgment to that or anything about it. Keep you posted 8 on that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: There is -- that particular issue, or 10 the issue of -- of where they are, their position, I believe 11 is -- is the terminology used in their agenda for tomorrow 12 night. That is an additional item there. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is for them to determine what their 15 position is relative to the Center Point wastewater project. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. When we get that city 17 agenda, Jody, could you put a copy in our boxes, please? 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: For City Council stuff? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 20 MS. GRINSTEAD: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't know that was on 22 there, Judge. That would be good. Also, I'd like to tell the 23 Court that I've had two phone calls from these various 24 interested parties for leasing of the Juvenile Detention 25 Facility, most recent being this morning while we were in 8-27-07 210 1 court, and previously, late last week from the Cornerstone 2 people out of Colorado. The T.Y.C. has -- is going to release 3 another request for proposals, and I think there's another 4 month or so for people to get -- that are interested to 5 resubmit it to T.Y.C. Neither of these folks seem to know 6 whether those who'd already jumped through the hoops are in 7 for consideration, or whether they've got to jump through the 8 hoops again, but whatever. So, there is still interest in our 9 facility. That's the bottom line. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have anything to throw 11 in the mix here? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not really. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any elected officials have any 14 reports? I knew I shouldn't have asked that question. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, you shouldn't. 16 Two things. First, last time we told y'all in executive 17 session of the two lawsuits, the one that had been thrown out 18 but was being appealed up to the Fifth Circuit. Fifth Circuit 19 had ruled on that one and ruled in our favor, so that one's 20 gone. Technically, I guess, they could have filed another 21 appeal in 30 days, but usually, once the Fifth Circuit's done 22 it, it's over. The second thing is just an F.Y.I., because 23 y'all's next meeting is after the 1st. If your new J.P. is 24 taking office the first of the month, your new deputy 25 constable will not have any law enforcement powers and will 8-27-07 211 1 have to give up his peace officer's commission until a new 2 constable is appointed, that they can work under his license. 3 Or you're going to have to move him to another constable's 4 office. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Start over. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Once David's -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The present deputy constable? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He will go out of office as far 9 as a peace officer; not as far as employment, but as far as 10 any law enforcement powers. Once David gives up his office, 11 at midnight that night, that deputy constable loses his 12 commission. He has to be commissioned through his constable, 13 and if there isn't one, he's lost his peace officer -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can he be recommissioned by 15 any constable? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's up to the Court, who 17 they want to authorize to have -- you know, what constable 18 they want to authorize to have an office of a deputy 19 constable, and then he's got to be resworn in as a deputy 20 constable with that office. And there's a lot of -- if he 21 loses all his peace officer powers, he won't be able to 22 legally carry a gun or anything. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does Constable 2 have a 24 deputy? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two has -- yes. That is -- 8-27-07 212 1 North is under 2, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eddie North is under 2? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eddie North is a deputy 4 constable under 2. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Now, you can authorize 7 as many deputy constables as you want, but he will just lose 8 his commission effective, you know, when David goes out. He 9 needs to understand that he won't be allowed to carry that 10 badge or weapon or do any law enforcement duties. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can he switch to another law 12 agency and carry his license, and then two weeks later, when 13 we get a new constable, switch again? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He can. It's a -- number one, 15 if he switches over to 2, there's a form that's called an F-5 16 that has to be sent in to the state terminating him from 17 employment with David. Then there's an L-1 that's got to be 18 sent in to the state hiring him with Precinct 2, and he's got 19 to be resworn in. And then if you do that vice-versa, the 20 same thing. And then his -- in his work history with TCLEOSE, 21 which, you know, any agency can pull up, it's going to show it 22 kind of odd, 'cause it's going to show, well, he worked for 23 this constable's office for one month, he got fired or quit or 24 whatever, went to work for this one for three weeks, got fired 25 or quit, whatever, and went to work for this one for -- and 8-27-07 213 1 then each constable that he goes to work for and leaves has to 2 also send in a written explanation on why he's no longer with 3 him, why he was being terminated or resigned or whatever. And 4 then, technically -- last Legislature did this -- before the 5 next constable can pick him up, they have to send in writing 6 to TCLEOSE and request a copy of that F-5 on why he was let go 7 or resigned from the prior one, and they can't hire him until 8 they have it, or it's a criminal offense against that 9 constable. We're going through this with our new hires. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. 11 What's -- what would it do -- what would it do if he just laid 12 it down for two weeks? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not one thing. He can lay it 14 down; he just cannot be a peace -- he cannot do any peace 15 officer duties. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Until there's a new constable. 18 Carry a gun, put a gun in his car or anything -- well, a gun 19 in his car, now -- now with the weird legislation on 20 unlawfully carrying -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can all carry a gun. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He can probably do that, but he 23 cannot present himself in any way, shape, or form as an 24 officer. He's still a -- he is a certified peace officer, but 25 he is not commissioned through any office, so he won't have 8-27-07 214 1 any law enforcement powers. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, given the 4 circumstances of the individual we're talking about, is there 5 any reason why he couldn't be under Precinct 2, if the 6 constable has no problem? Doesn't make any difference? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Other than just all the 8 paperwork, and by the time you get that letter sent in, get 9 that back and everything else, it could end up being that 10 you've already got somebody else appointed in 1. It's a 11 time-consuming deal. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Commissioner Baldwin, sounds 13 like you need to name your constable a little earlier than 14 what you'd anticipated. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it does. Or -- I don't 16 see any problems with the guy going without a gun for two 17 weeks. I mean, what's the problem with that? Unless you're 18 totally addicted to it, like Rusty. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, you can see mine. But he 20 -- it's just the powers he has -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He takes a shower, you know, 22 with that darn gun on his -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have to take the badge 24 off too? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He can't present himself in any 8-27-07 215 1 way, shape, or form as a law enforcement officer. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'll go and talk to him. 3 Have you talked to him about that? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I thought I'd better bring 5 that -- I didn't know if you wanted to try and appoint -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was wearing a gun today when 7 he was in here. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, he was wearing that 9 gun, Glock 40. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we get him right out and do 11 some training, I think he would be a good choice, what you've 12 got. I think he's a great guy, but I don't know if he's going 13 to be ready for that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go talk to him. If he 15 doesn't understand, I'll run him by you. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sounds good. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're the daddy of Kerr 18 County, aren't you? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, he is, too. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Being modest. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He just doesn't want us to 24 use any more deputy salaries. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'd better go get to 8-27-07 216 1 that right now. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? We'll 3 stand adjourned. 4 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:14 p.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 7 8 STATE OF TEXAS | 9 COUNTY OF KERR | 10 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 11 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 12 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 13 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 14 heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of 16 September, 2007. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 8-27-07