1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Friday, August 31, 2007 11 9:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 1 I N D E X August 31, 2007 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2007-08 budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure, and personnel matters related 4 thereto for various county departments 3 5 Adjourned 71 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Friday, August 31, 2007, at 9:30 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held 3 in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had 5 in open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come to order, if we might, for 8 this Commissioners Court workshop scheduled for this time and 9 date, Friday, August the 31st, '07, at 9:30 a.m. It is that 10 time now. The workshop is for budgetary purposes. The item 11 listed is review and discuss FY 2007-08 budgets and fiscal, 12 capital expenditure, and personnel matters related thereto for 13 various county departments. Each of -- each of us here has a 14 new printout of the budget, and with an index and some nice 15 tabs where it's easy -- or much easier to find what we're 16 looking for. There's some prefacing summary information 17 provided by the Auditor. I want to thank Ms. Hargis for her 18 good work in putting this together. I know that it was pretty 19 much an eleventh hour operation, 'cause I know as recently as 20 late yesterday afternoon, we were still working on and 21 discussing some of these things, and I think she's tried to 22 give us a summary that is concise, but yet complete, so that 23 we can know what we're dealing with, and therefore plug in 24 where -- where we need to be in order to get where we want to 25 go. With that, I will defer to Ms. Hargis for -- for a 8-31-07 bwk 4 1 general summary of where we are, so that she might hit the 2 high points of -- of the status of our situation at the 3 present time. 4 MS. HARGIS: I'd like to give y'all an opportunity 5 to read the memo first. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this like a moment of 7 silence? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It is. 10 MS. HARGIS: I think it would be better if y'all had 11 an opportunity to read it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all want to pray while 13 we're doing this? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I might mention one thing. Kind of 16 keep in mind we've got a -- a special court meeting set for 17 next Tuesday morning, and if there are any items that need to 18 be added to that agenda, we've got until the close of business 19 today to do that, particularly if there are any items in 20 connection with the budget that we have to take formal action; 21 the tax rate, or any other matter, as far as that goes. We've 22 already got the special meeting programmed in, and it's going 23 to be held next Tuesday morning. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 MS. HARGIS: Y'all about ready? 8-31-07 bwk 5 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead and launch it. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. You have a booklet in front of 3 you, which is the budget actually as we made changes to it as 4 of yesterday. All of this was put together actually last 5 night. In going over all of the expenses and reviewing them 6 two and three times and then going over the revenue, I 7 realized that -- that I did make an error, and I have listed 8 that for you. And I apologize for that. But it -- I have 9 changed the web site. John fixed that for me, and it is out 10 there. The -- the effect of that, of course, is reducing 11 our -- our reserves, because it is a reduction of revenue. 12 The amount of tax increase that -- that is the actual is 13 1,172,172, which is a 9.8 percent increase over last year, 14 using the same tax rate that we currently have for maintenance 15 and operation and debt. The 407,900 of that is new property; 16 that's about 113 million, and that leaves 764,272, which is 17 from reappraisals. The tax freeze, taxable assessed value has 18 actually increased by 73 million, taking it to 847 million in 19 assessed property. If we took that amount of money and 20 multiplied it times our current tax rate, we would actually 21 produce a tax revenue of 3 million, 38. The freeze tax rate 22 which is provided to us by the Appraisal District is actually 23 2 million, 4, so as of right now, you actually have a loss in 24 tax revenues because of the freeze of $580,000. The Road and 25 Bridge tax is currently at .0309. The rollback rate for them 8-31-07 bwk 6 1 this year is .0304, so that's a reduction of five 2 ten-thousandths, and so that their rate would have to be 3 reduced because of their rollback rate. If we roll that into 4 our whole rate, which to leave it the same as last year, which 5 is .3896, that would provide an additional 13,000 only to the 6 general fund. The rollback rate for the county, including the 7 Road and Bridge, is .4051, so the -- the maximum increase we 8 could do is 1.55, and that would produce approximately 9 394,000. I've given you a schedule that the Tax Assessor gave 10 me that shows the increments of tax rate increases that -- 11 that comes off of when she produces the effective tax rate 12 calculation. I've also attached that for your review. As I 13 said earlier, the Judge and I have gone over and -- and 14 reviewed everyone's request. We moved people around like you 15 requested that they be moved around; for instance, the 16 Maintenance Department. There are no raises, there are no 17 merit increases, and there's no COLA in this budget. The 18 longevities are here, because we are obligated to do the 19 longevities. That is so that you can make that decision 20 yourself. You had asked me to do the COLA's from 3 percent to 21 4 percent, and I have given you a sheet which, unfortunately, 22 is not as clear as I would like, but I didn't have much time 23 to get it for you. And, basically, the 3 percent would be 24 326,0000. At 3.1, it would be 336, so every one-tenth is an 25 additional $10,000. You asked for that as well. And if you 8-31-07 bwk 7 1 went to 3.5, it would be 377,000. 4 percent would be 429,000. 2 So, there's your increments, from 3 percent to 4 percent. The 3 -- the retirement that we have currently in the budget is at 4 8.9 percent, and the -- we have received our new rate for next 5 year, which is 8.2 before your unemployment rate, and then the 6 new unemployment rate which I've given you a copy of is .0032. 7 And if you were to give the retirees the same COLA as you gave 8 them last year, which was a 50 percent COLA on retirement, the 9 cost would be a half a -- a half a percent, and so that would 10 bring your rate to 8.7032. So, we could pick up some 11 reduction in cost if we took our entire payroll and reduced 12 that, but it -- they had estimated the 8.9. Keep in mind, the 13 reduction -- I think, Jonathan, you were in the retirement 14 session with me. The reduction is due to the retirement 15 system getting a -- short some funds, and so they've actually 16 reduced everybody's. I did speak with that representative 17 after the meeting, and I have not verified it, and he told me 18 that he had had a request on our fund, and so he had checked 19 it, and one of the -- someone in the 198th -- actually, I 20 think Adult Probation for the 198th was considering going into 21 one of their counties as a retirement system, and he said we 22 had over 100 percent in our fund, which is great. So, he 23 suggested no one to reduce it, but if we, in fact, have -- he 24 said actually 118 percent, but, you know, I -- I would rather 25 verify that with him before I tell you that's really the 8-31-07 bwk 8 1 truth. But that's the rate that we could do. Last year's 2 rate was 8.75, so if we did go down, it wouldn't be that much. 3 But -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me interrupt you there, if I 5 might. Does -- the 8.2 does not include the insurance 6 benefit, does it? 7 MS. HARGIS: No. That's the .0032, the unemployment 8 rate that we have to put into that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the insurance benefit that 10 we've had in place for the last few years is, like -- I don't 11 know, .28, .29, something like that. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it fluctuates just like the other, 13 and we get -- there's a letter in there telling you what ours 14 has been in the past and what it is this year. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: So that we could, again, pick up a 17 little bit of -- of savings on that. I didn't have a chance 18 and didn't have really enough time to go through and really 19 itemize all the software or I.T. projects that we have, so 20 what I did is pick up the big-ticket items for you under the 21 long-term so that you could see what those are. I can go back 22 over those in my notes and tell you what they are, but I 23 wanted you to just see the amounts. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jeannie, do you have a -- or you 25 or John, do you have a total I.T. on hardware county-wide? 8-31-07 bwk 9 1 MR. TROLINGER: Just hardware only? No, I do not -- 2 well, yes I do, correction. Desktops -- desktop computers, 3 hardware, it includes some software, it's -- it's about 4 $125,000. It's on the summary page of the I.T. budget that I 5 submitted to y'all. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hargis, it looks like 7 this total -- I'm just looking at it at a glance -- looks like 8 in excess of 600,000. Would that be correct? 9 MS. HARGIS: I think so. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something like that? 11 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. And keep in mind, now, when we 12 did the air-conditioners, we didn't do all of them, so if we 13 -- if you decided to do long-term debt, we might decide to 14 add, you know, all the air-conditioners, since they are all 15 the same age out there. You do have one obligation that will 16 be removed next year, which is your 2001 -- I mean, and I put 17 1001. I apologize; it's 2001 contractual obligation. That 18 payment is 160,000, so that will drop off after this year. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the Sheriff's 20 communication system? 21 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And so after that, we've got the 23 I.T. -- 24 MS. HARGIS: We have the Bank of America one, and we 25 have the I.T. one, and then those will drop off, and the jail 8-31-07 bwk 10 1 drops off 2012. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When does the Juvenile 3 Detention Facility drop off? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 2010. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2010? Okay, I see it. 6 MS. HARGIS: So, most everything will drop off in 7 2010, so that if you did a long-term now, you could probably 8 have it for a short-term period and pay it off in 2010, or 9 shortly thereafter. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What if we were to shift the 11 items you have listed to a -- to a debt -- long-term debt? 12 What would that reduce the budget by? 13 MS. HARGIS: Well, if we went through and really 14 took out all of the software, which I think there's actually a 15 little bit more than that in there -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: There's software and services also. 17 There are -- for instance, the internet service at a few 18 facilities is listed in there. 19 MS. HARGIS: So, it's -- I would say it's probably 20 closer, 'cause I know one of the software packages is around 21 $30,000, so it's probably closer to 200 for that. I would say 22 about a million. That would reduce the budget by about a 23 million, which would get us -- a million's going to bring you 24 up to a higher percentage; it's going to get you up to 20, 25 maybe 21 percent. 8-31-07 bwk 11 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that would be what kind of 2 long-term debt? Talking about a three-year? Four-year? 3 MS. HARGIS: Three- or four-year. I wouldn't 4 suggest you go out that long, because your debt's going to 5 fall off. We could push it out where the payment wouldn't 6 come due until next year, which would then, you know, take the 7 160, and then what we could do is -- is have that 160, and 8 then at the point where all the debt fell off, we would just 9 pay that one off. And then -- and you would have the same 10 schedule as you have today. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By -- in your opinion, most of 12 these items, by doing that, are we just making a new problem 13 for a couple years down the road? 14 MS. HARGIS: No, because I don't suggest we replace 15 it with anything maybe but our employee benefits. I'm not 16 suggesting we take the whole million and spend that. What I'm 17 suggesting is we use long-term debt for that, which will free 18 up at least some to help the employees, and then take that 19 additional money and put in our reserve fund so that our 20 reserve fund will build over this year. And we always get 21 plus-or-minus revenue. We get more interest revenue than we 22 have in the past, so that perhaps we can get that reserve 23 built up on its own, without us having to do that again. I 24 wouldn't suggest we do long-term if it wasn't going to have 25 some kind of effect on the -- 8-31-07 bwk 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Positive impact, short-term? 2 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, 'cause that would -- that would 3 be my goal. Don't just -- just use a portion of it that we've 4 saved, not all of it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think there's -- 6 MS. HARGIS: And -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there's some items that I 8 would be in favor of. I mean, I think they're a little bit 9 discretionary. Windows, I would cut out, but most of those 10 can be put in the long-term, such as the windows is one of 11 those items. I mean, that's a legitimate long-term item, but 12 something we don't have to do this year. But at some point, 13 that's got to be done. So, it's kind of -- by putting it into 14 long-term debt may not be a bad way to do it, whether we do it 15 this year or -- and -- or, you know, not do it this year, then 16 do it next year as long-term. I mean, which pushes it off a 17 little bit, which makes it a little bit of a benefit. I think 18 the Sheriff's Department vehicles can be cut back to standard 19 cruisers. That's another -- oh, I'm guessing it's about -- a 20 savings of about $40,000, $50,000, I think, by not going to 21 the Tahoe-type vehicles. 22 MS. HARGIS: That wouldn't be that much, would it? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 24 MS. HARGIS: No, he only has 57,000 in there, so 25 I'm -- 8-31-07 bwk 13 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the actual bottom line came 2 in -- I've got even Ford Motor Credit and everything. The 3 payments will be 54,000 for the four Tahoes and the one Crown 4 Vic. And if you wanted just to do the four Tahoes and, say, 5 forget the one Crown Vic, keep us at four cars instead of 6 going with five, which is really pushing our mileage, but then 7 you could take another 9,000 off of that 54. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would it be if you just 9 went to Crown Vics and no Tahoes? Four Crown Vics. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The difference -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $7,000 less. It extends the 12 lease an extra year. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's -- it's not any 14 difference in lease payments. It is a difference in the 15 years, okay? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The length -- term of the 17 agreement. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Term of one more year. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Term of one more year. So, 20 we're -- you're not changing the amount of the payment. 21 You're not changing the effect of the budget, except for that 22 one more year payment. 23 MS. HARGIS: And we did lose a car Friday. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I had one that somebody 25 turned in front of one of ours. Not our fault, but it's -- 8-31-07 bwk 14 1 the problem is, it's totaled out. It's one of our Tauruses. 2 That's not one I've ever asked the Court to -- that's a C.I.D. 3 car. But -- so I just have to come up with funds for it, 4 depending on what the insurance pays us, and that's -- I don't 5 know what I'm going to do with that one. The adjuster won't 6 be here till next week. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looking at some of these other 8 dedicated funds, is there any additional funds we could shift 9 to come out of the Records Management or some of these other 10 dedicated funds? Is there any savings we can get there off 11 the general fund? 12 MR. TROLINGER: A large part of the I.T. budgets 13 where I mentioned there was some software and services are 14 from Records Management. The -- the County Clerk's and the 15 District Clerk's imaging project are substantial numbers. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Law Library? I mean, 17 that's one that's getting -- has a huge balance in it. That's 18 164,000. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That can only be spent in the Law 20 Library. 21 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, that's what I was concerned 22 about. I'm not -- but I think some of those things, when you 23 get the funds, they're only allocated for one purpose, and -- 24 and that's what Tommy is saying. The Law Library, they have 25 to go for books. 8-31-07 bwk 15 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Is there any way that we 2 can -- I mean, are we getting as many of the books that can go 3 in that category, like J.P.'s, County Attorney -- I mean, 4 we're putting everything we can into that fund -- or out of 5 that fund? 6 MS. HARGIS: I mean, the Judge and I have really 7 spent several days looking at every line item, and -- and 8 we've tried to reduce. The group insurance, I think we've 9 probably got it a little bit high, but I was a little afraid 10 to reduce it. Some of them are, like, 1,000 in each 11 department, but I was a little concerned that I bring that 12 down real far, because we don't know what it's going to be. 13 We really only know what three months is going to be; we don't 14 know what -- you know, what we're going to, what the plan's 15 going to be. So, what they put in -- they plugged in was an 16 8 percent increase, but some people put much more than that. 17 So, if it was a lot more, I reduced it. That's where I 18 basically got -- picked up some of this 230,000, was in the 19 group insurance. And there's still some of those that are a 20 little bit much. If I went back and tweaked those, we might 21 find a little bit of money, but I wanted to let y'all know 22 we're really pushing it down to the wire, and how close do you 23 want me to get? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MS. HARGIS: And I would think if we did that, we 8-31-07 bwk 16 1 still probably would want to hold maybe a group insurance 2 total or -- you know, like a pot, in case it went up and we 3 had to spread it out amongst the different departments. Group 4 insurance and health insurance is a real crapshoot from the 5 get-go, unfortunately. Now, having been involved with -- with 6 the representatives with the City, I think they got a pretty 7 good plan, but they still had an increase in it, and I think 8 it was around 8. And I think that's what the gentleman said 9 when he was here, was about 8 percent. And, then again, that 10 2 percent might make a pretty good difference if we go back 11 and tweak the retirement, but I need to know what you want to 12 do before I can do that. And I want to verify that rate 13 with -- and, you know, I need to know if you want to do the 14 COLA for the retirees this year, or -- you did it last year; 15 maybe you don't want to do it this year. There were a lot of 16 options presented at that session, one of which I don't -- I 17 don't think I even want to mention today, which was to bring 18 everybody up to the cost-of-living today, and I don't really 19 think we have that kind of money. The rest of the items, you 20 know, I've looked at, I've checked going back in their 21 history. We don't have a lot of fluff in -- in these people's 22 budgets. I mean, I think throughout this area, everybody's 23 very concerned that they stay within those line items. So, 24 there's just -- really, the areas where we've got the expense 25 this year is really the I.T. areas, getting everybody up. But 8-31-07 bwk 17 1 I'm not a proponent of taking those away, because the more 2 up-to-date equipment that we have, the better our staff will 3 work, will be more productive, and therefore we won't have to 4 hire new bodies, and it's a whole lot cheaper than hiring 5 people. 6 MR. TROLINGER: And if you look at the I.T., you 7 also see that I'm giving you numbers over five years, how much 8 it costs per user spread out over that -- that time period. 9 So, I'd say the minimum period that you would want to lease 10 out or -- or defer the payments on hardware would be three 11 years. 12 MS. HARGIS: Right. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Because that's about the limit of 14 any standard lease. 15 MS. HARGIS: And, again, I would want to call your 16 financial adviser in here and have him work with us to -- to 17 come up with the best way to schedule the debt if we did it, 18 to the best -- you know, to our benefit. But you're at a 19 million, 394. And if you think about that, for the debt 20 service payment for this current year, we drop off 160 next 21 year, so -- and the jail is only 460, so in 2010, you're going 22 to drop off almost a million dollars, and you can take and pay 23 that one debt off in that third year, just with the savings 24 from not having to pay in 2011 from all the others. And the 25 other -- this is not real popular, but people don't like to 8-31-07 bwk 18 1 see their tax rate do this. And if you're going -- if you 2 remove the debt rate and then you bring it back and then you 3 take it away and you bring it back, people don't understand 4 that kind of thing. So, it's much better, and your debt rate 5 is very, very low. If -- and if you need improvements that 6 are real capital improvements, and -- and can provide a real 7 benefit to the county, sometimes it's better to stretch those 8 out just a little bit and give them that benefit, and keep 9 your other expenses and your fund balance up. 'Cause a lot of 10 times what happens when you do a bond issue -- and I'm not as 11 familiar with counties as I am other entities, but because you 12 don't have to do -- perhaps if you buy newer vehicles, you're 13 not repairing; you save those costs. Like, the 14 air-conditioners, you're spending a lot of money on 15 maintenance. You save those costs, plus you earn the interest 16 on that money that you don't spend, and that difference 17 sometimes will get you to where you -- we're really not that 18 far away. It's really possible to take interest earnings and 19 be a little frugal with our maintenance costs and stuff this 20 next year to get our fund balance back to where we need it to 21 be, and we just need to have that goal and get there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis, what is the 23 cost-of-living? 24 MS. HARGIS: COLA? I haven't looked at it 25 personally, but it's my understanding it's between 3.3 and 8-31-07 bwk 19 1 3.7, depending on which web site you look at. According to 2 Eva -- and we are in the Dallas County area as much as we -- 3 that's the -- the web site that we have to do. Dallas County 4 is at 3.4. I think the City's average is going to be about, 5 3.3, 3.4, is what they're giving this year. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Southwest Urban is between 7 3.2 and 3.4. 8 MS. HARGIS: It's somewhere in there. It's a little 9 lower than it was last year. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I, for one, definitely 11 want to go that route. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- and you may 14 have mentioned the raises that we had talked about a couple of 15 weeks ago. We had talked about raises for several different 16 people. Those have dropped out. 17 MS. HARGIS: They're not in here, because you -- we 18 want -- I want you to tell me, and for y'all to approve that. 19 That's not a decision that I make. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. I 21 understand that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be interested in knowing, 24 though, who those were and how much -- how much the total was. 25 Do I have that information? 8-31-07 bwk 20 1 MS. HARGIS: I would have to go back through. I 2 think -- Eva, are you here? She has a few recommendations on 3 some. I don't know if she has all of them. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: But, you know, I can work with her and 6 go through -- back through, and each department head, and see 7 what those are. And -- and, to be honest, I have not added 8 the total of those requests at all, so I cannot give you a 9 number. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to tell you a little 11 story -- or quick story about insurance. And there's a lot of 12 people talking about -- in Washington, talking about -- they 13 call it all kinds of things. It's socialized medicine. Let 14 me tell you about socialized medicine. Yesterday morning at 15 4 o'clock, my daughter goes into the hospital in New Zealand, 16 where the medicine and medical attention's all free. 17 Socialized country. Midnight last night, she got into a -- 18 4 o'clock in the morning to midnight, she sat on a gurney in a 19 hallway for 20 hours waiting on medical attention. We have a 20 good program. 21 MS. HARGIS: We have an excellent program. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excellent program. And we 23 need to all understand that. 24 MS. HARGIS: We do. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hargis, with regard to 8-31-07 bwk 21 1 your list of items that could be capitalized, there are some 2 small ones that surely we would not want to include in a 3 long-term debt structure. 4 MS. HARGIS: No, I think that -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Items C, D, E, and F -- 6 whatever -- G. D, E, F, and G, particularly. 7 MS. HARGIS: I think those are I.T. related, and I 8 think if we added all the I.T. together, then your amount's 9 going to be closer -- from what John's got, actually closer to 10 about 200,000. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: But this morning I didn't list them 13 all, because some of the budgets include them in one line 14 item, some have them in another line item, and to be honest 15 with you, I didn't have time to go through and pull out a real 16 good amount for you, so I didn't want -- I just picked the 17 largest ones I could see real quickly. As the Judge and I 18 said, we were here till 8:30 putting your books together. We 19 wanted you to see and get those adjustments done so you have a 20 new book to look at, and new summary, and -- and some 21 suggestions. 'Cause I'm at that point where I need you to 22 tell me what I need to do, and -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want to know? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the COLA needs to be 25 3.3. 8-31-07 bwk 22 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's one. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: COLA, 3.3. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3.3. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And then work on ways to pay 5 for that by cutting some of these things or redoing them or 6 putting them on long-term debt. 7 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I think -- I mean, I'm 9 not a big fan of the long-term debt thing, but I think it's -- 10 knowing our long-term debt situation, and some of these 11 things, we just -- we've got to do something. Some of these 12 things, like the windows, is discretionary, but they're really 13 not. That's something we -- it's been on the radar screen 14 since you were a Commissioner last time. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, last time I was 16 here, they supposedly fixed them, and they -- they didn't stay 17 fixed. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality is, you would 20 pull out the items which really -- really warrant 21 consideration in a capital position -- capital funding, and 22 then tell us what that is. 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What the total is, correct? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8-31-07 bwk 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then put the COLA in. 2 MS. HARGIS: Put the COLA in, and then what do you 3 want to do about -- there are no merit increases; there are no 4 new positions except the ones that you authorized. For 5 instance, I need to know whether you want me to put in the 6 other half position for the Animal Control. Was -- you 7 accepted his money, but it wasn't on the agenda for you to 8 accept the position. Do you want me to add a half a position 9 to Animal Control? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. We need to put half -- 11 we have to do that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it would be helpful 14 for the Court, following up on what Commissioner Baldwin asked 15 a moment ago, if we could see some sort of a list of 16 recommendations from H.R. with respect to salary adjustments. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think she's provided that at 18 one point, but -- 19 MS. HYDE: Would y'all like a new one? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm seeing it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The same one. The same one. 22 But I would like to see it so we can go through it. 23 MS. HYDE: Do you want it right now? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any time would be helpful. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: With respect to the long-term debt, 8-31-07 bwk 24 1 one of the things we need to keep in mind is your effective 2 rate, that rate that you're paying, you have to factor into 3 that your cost of issuance. So, if you're going to do -- in 4 that situation, you need to structure it in such a manner, 5 number one, that the cost of issuance is -- you're trying to 6 keep that as low as possible, and number two, there's almost a 7 minimal amount that you consider because of that cost that you 8 have factored in. But -- 9 MS. HARGIS: And I would suggest we try do something 10 locally so that we don't have to pay all of the fees. There 11 are different instruments that -- that financial advisers 12 don't have -- they get a little less percentage, and also you 13 don't have to have -- you still have to file with the Attorney 14 General, but other than that, there are some fees we can 15 reduce. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just get the minimal amount of 17 fees on a short term. Really, we're looking at short-term 18 debt instead of -- you know, three years is really not 19 long-term. I consider long-term 15 to 20 years. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, in this business, anything past 21 one year is long-term. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 MS. HARGIS: Well, actually, it's one year plus one 24 day. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8-31-07 bwk 25 1 MS. HARGIS: True. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was recently, last week, 3 visiting with a Sheriff from another county, and we were 4 talking about vehicles, and he does five vehicles a year. And 5 I asked him how he did it, and he said, well, we used to 6 lease, but realized that that costs a lot more in the long run 7 'cause of your interest rates. And so they -- they just 8 purchase five up front. And we may want to -- may want to 9 revisit that next year. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd look at your -- your cost. 11 Like, say five Tahoes, okay? Just on that, 'cause I did get 12 those kind of prices earlier. The cost of five Tahoes is 13 208,000 if you purchased them outright, total, okay? Your -- 14 your lease payment -- y'all have to figure this -- on four 15 Tahoes -- and say they're 30-something thousand each, so maybe 16 it's 177,000 for four Tahoes. Your lease for four years on 17 four Tahoes is -- on just the Tahoes, is 38,000, and that's at 18 6 percent. But -- so four of them is 38, compared to the 177, 19 is what your difference is. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the per annum factor in there, 22 though, on the lease factor? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The percentage? The percentage 24 is 6 point -- 25 MR. ODOM: 25. 8-31-07 bwk 26 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the -- this coming year, 2 because of what -- Ford Motor Credit on that lease is 6.9. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We can borrow a whole lot cheaper 4 than that. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's your -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And so Commissioner Baldwin's point 7 is well-taken. If we go capital on those, our interest cost 8 on that -- on that amount will probably be at least 2 points 9 below, probably closer to 3. 10 MS. HARGIS: Devil's advocate here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 12 MS. HARGIS: Let me play devil's advocate. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: Having just moved from one spot here to 15 the other, the -- that was their -- the City was buying 16 vehicles every year. The problem is, once you start that, 17 you're going to have a $208,000 bill every year. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 MS. HARGIS: So -- but you need to see -- and the 20 other thing is, a lot of those vehicles, then you have 21 problems trading them in. It's just been my experience, even 22 though you might have a little interest difference -- what we 23 might do is figure what it would be to see if we really save 24 that much money. Because if you're leasing the vehicles, you 25 can trade them back in; you can get another one. You don't 8-31-07 bwk 27 1 have to worry about selling them on the web. I mean, even -- 2 even with that, I mean, we have lost a lot of money trying to 3 sell the vehicles, because we put a lot of miles on them in a 4 hurry. And they're -- they're leased vehicles, and so it's 5 got to be another small town that's looking for them, and 6 they're -- they don't have the money. So, what -- what's 7 basically happened at the City is, we've sold a lot of those 8 vehicles and lost money on them because we, you know, 9 bought -- that's what he does every year. Now they're 10 switching on the -- actually switching on the fire trucks. 11 They did put two trucks in, as you know, in the fire 12 department -- the fire station. But he's always had, like, 13 one truck and one EMS every year, and so that's begun -- and 14 your cost is going to go up with the vehicles as well. This 15 year, they might be 208,000, but next year they might be 16 225,000, so there may be your interest differential, by the 17 cost going up. On -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, if you have your 19 calculator handy, I do have the figure on sale of four. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Say what? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On four. Four Tahoes, 22 equipped, okay, is $166,560, plus a $350 document fee, is the 23 way they get that. All right? That's what it would cost you 24 outright purchasing them. The payments for four years, and 25 then you buy them for $1 after that, at the 6.9 percent is 8-31-07 bwk 28 1 $45,991.88. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 45 what? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 991.88. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Each? 5 MS. HARGIS: No, for all of them. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: Times four. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Times four. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Each. 10 MS. HARGIS: Times how many years? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Four. 12 MS. HARGIS: Four years. 13 MR. BARTON: Plus $4. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Interest cost of $17,000. 15 MS. HARGIS: In four years. So, what is four times 16 45? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know, I'm past that number. 18 MR. TROLINGER: It's, like, 15 or 17. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's gone. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 17,000 interest. 21 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. So even if you put them in a 22 capital program, you're going to end up with that as well, so 23 you really need to pay cash if you're going to do that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hargis, on a couple of these 25 items, if -- are we better off, in your opinion, on items 8-31-07 bwk 29 1 like -- what do you call those -- air-conditioners, and 2 possibly Ag Barn, some of that, to look into the crystal ball 3 and see where we're going to be for the next couple years, and 4 do it all at once? Or issue possibly more debt next year, 5 depending on what happens? 6 MS. HARGIS: No, you're always better off doing all 7 those all at one time. The problem -- when you do the arena 8 and you price it out, it's, like, piecemeal, you know. You're 9 going to get somebody else adding onto it, and if you do it 10 all at one time, they're going to give you a much better price 11 than if you -- they have to have sections, I think. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- and if -- say that we put, 13 I think, 150,000 here. Put that up to 250,000, then if we 14 were -- we didn't need it all, we could just pay off the debt 15 with it? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes, you can always pay the off the 17 debt. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a good or a bad option, 19 in your mind? 20 MS. HARGIS: No, it's a good option. I mean, I 21 have -- you know, I've had a lot of entities do that where 22 they, you know, have the capital item; they don't really have 23 it -- you know, they don't know exactly. They estimate it, 24 and what we would do is budget what we think needs to go into 25 long-term debt, knowing that it would have to be plus or minus 8-31-07 bwk 30 1 a little bit. And then we can either go ahead and sell them 2 as soon as we get a good estimate after you -- after your 3 designer gives it to you, or we can sit down and -- and -- but 4 I think I would really -- if we did an issue with the arena, 5 all of it, I would like to get some kind of estimate for it 6 and maybe put 10 percent more. And then if it came back in 7 less when we bid it, then we would just take that money and -- 8 and pay down the debt. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- what I'm thinking, I 10 mean, to make sure everyone's on the same page where my brain 11 is, it's not -- we're not borrowing to build the arena. 12 That's going to have to come in through grants. But there's 13 going to be things associated with it that are going to have 14 to be done, that we're going to have to pick up, possibly, 15 such as -- maybe we can get it all paid for; parking, some of 16 the sewer connections, electrical changes. I mean, there's 17 things -- more of the infrastructure side that I see the 18 County's going to be responsible for, with the big ticket of 19 the actual building being, I mean, through the grant. 20 MS. HARGIS: Are there any fees going to be made on 21 the building? Any fees generated from this building? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, there will be. 24 MS. HARGIS: So, the sooner that it was complete, 25 the sooner we could get fees, so the fees could maybe help to 8-31-07 bwk 31 1 offset the debt. We could take the fees and dedicate those to 2 pay the debt. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. There's also -- this is a 4 little bit off the track, but at one of our schools, there was 5 -- there's some new legislation that allows the counties to 6 do -- I forget what they call them, areas that we can do a -- 7 increase the sales tax. Rather than do a -- City's already 8 got the sales tax in the city limits. The Ag Barn is not in 9 the city limits. We could, on that one property, put sales 10 tax in, which will hit the concession stands and also the arts 11 and crafts fair. Then we could get -- then that sales tax 12 revenue can go -- or, anyway, I'd like to look at that a 13 little bit more after you're done with the budget stuff. 14 MS. HARGIS: I think that's a good -- I saw that as 15 well. And I attended a session, I guess, about four or five 16 years ago when the emergency fire districts were trying to go 17 into taxing, and a lot of them were outside of the city, and 18 they were taking care of it, but if there was a city close by, 19 they couldn't get the sales tax. One of those things, 20 first-come, first-served, so they were in the ETJ's. So, I 21 think new legislation is coming, actually from the emergency 22 services districts' attorneys. And it's a good thing, because 23 it's always been sales tax, first-come, first-served. And 24 then, if you're in the ETJ of that city, then you do not get 25 any more. So, we could -- that would be a big-ticket item out 8-31-07 bwk 32 1 there at the fairgrounds. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to ask you something. 3 You may be just talking philosophy, but, like, you're talking 4 parking and sewer and those kinds of things that are directly 5 related to the arena, and you would budget that directly 6 related, instead of 50,000, -- 7 MS. HARGIS: 150. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- 150,000, 200,000, or 9 whatever the number might be. Is that what you're saying? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I'm just saying that -- I 11 mean, I think the County's going to have to pay to get -- do 12 the kind of plan we've discussed. We're going to have to put 13 some money into it. But, in my mind, the majority of the 14 money has to come from grants and foundations. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. I know. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to have a -- 17 well, we realize we're going to have to -- there's going to be 18 some cost to the County to get this done. I don't think we 19 can go, you know, ask a foundation to do all these little -- 20 you know, little things. As an example, renovating the 21 current indoor arena. It needs work, and I really -- I 22 don't -- I think it's going to be real hard-pressed to find 23 any grant for us to redo that. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's got to be something this 8-31-07 bwk 33 1 County's going to have to pay for. And I think that I'd like 2 to start -- you know, get a pocket of money set aside that we 3 can start doing that stuff, sewer hookups and extensions over 4 there by the pole barn that we're doing, and there's going to 5 be things like that that I think if we can just have it in our 6 budget to pay for those things, it's going to make the grant 7 applications and all that a whole lot simpler. I mean, rather 8 than say, "Oh, and by the way, we need to do a sewer extension 9 for 400 feet to tie in this one bathroom that we just built." 10 It just clouds the issue, to me, so I think we need to budget 11 for that stuff. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're absolutely 13 right. But that -- we talked about this last Monday, and all 14 that has to come under the guise of planning and site planning 15 and some design money. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can't just be walking in 18 the front door of various foundations and saying, "Hi, we got 19 a hell of an idea here," you know. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They want to see it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure that if 23 we're going to go out on -- on some debt, that we put enough 24 money for that facility, and use as little of it as possible. 25 MS. HARGIS: And, really, the threshold for debt is 8-31-07 bwk 34 1 a million. I mean, that sounds like a lot, but if you don't 2 sell a million, it really costs you. It costs you too much to 3 do it. So, we -- we might -- and the air-conditioners, 4 they're all 20 years old. You know, and doing five a year is 5 not going to make it, 'cause some of them are just not going 6 to make it, you know, that length of time, even if we did five 7 a year, because there's 20 units out there. And if they 8 hadn't all been put in at the same time, we could probably do 9 that, but since they were all installed at the same time -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aren't we compounding the 11 problem, though? That if we now go to 20 of them, then in 20 12 years, we're going to have to redo them all again? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd rather -- I'd rather do 14 the most important ones and then do -- like, do a fourth of 15 them a year until we get them done. That way, we set 16 ourselves up for not having to spend all of it at one time in 17 the future. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting in a rotation 19 program. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you still have the 21 ongoing maintenance for the other ones that are going to fail 22 or in the failing mode, so I think you have to balance the 23 maintenance costs of the ones that you didn't replace with the 24 cost of replacing them. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think you get the -- 8-31-07 bwk 35 1 you get the ones that are the -- the biggest ones, and you 2 work on them first, and you work on the little ones as they 3 come -- as they happen. But -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, based upon my 5 recollection -- maybe it's faulty -- that over the past couple 6 years, every time we look up, we're doing a major replacement 7 out there. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So we ought to be transitioned on a 11 number of those. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, some of them have been 13 maintained just recently. And I don't know -- Rusty, have you 14 been having too much problems with them since you've gotten 15 some maintenance done? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Normal. Since they've got them 17 back on a good maintenance schedule and that, we're doing a 18 lot better. They've replaced a number of compressors and 19 things like that, but it's -- they're actually 15 years old 20 right now, or so, and I think it's very possible that -- and 21 you just have to take it, you know. You may want to have the 22 money there and not -- if they're all working right this 23 minute, don't replace one of them. As long as you got the 24 money. If we have another major problem with one, replace 25 that whole unit. Then if you have another major problem six 8-31-07 bwk 36 1 months later with another one, replace that unit. They've 2 reached the extent where I wouldn't really recommend paying 3 any more real maintenance, replacing more compressors and all 4 that. If you you've got the funds that you can go ahead, and 5 when you start having these problems with them -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the other thing is -- 7 that's one way of looking at it. You budget some money to 8 fix, say, four of them. And if you don't -- if it doesn't go 9 out, you don't spend the money this year. You let it roll 10 over to next year, and you start replacing them as they go 11 out. That's the other way to look at it, rather than just 12 taking one that's working and put a new one in its place. I'm 13 not one for fixing stuff that's not broken. 14 MS. HARGIS: I think we need a priority list. I 15 think you talked about getting that as well. I think we need 16 a priority list of the age of those units and when they were 17 fixed and that kind of thing. That will give y'all an 18 opportunity to see exactly how many might need to be replaced. 19 We don't know that right now. I'm guessing. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think that we -- you 21 know, we should budget enough money to, say, fix a fourth of 22 them. If a fourth of them go out, you fix them. If they 23 don't, you roll it over. If they go out -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's one -- there's one big 25 unit or two big units? 8-31-07 bwk 37 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's two monster units. Two 2 monster units, and then there's about 18 or 20 regular units. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The small ones aren't that 4 expensive. I mean, we can -- it's those 20-ton ones that are 5 going to be the big, big hit. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And how's the maintenance been 7 on those two 20-ton units? 8 MR. BOLLIER: We haven't done a whole lot to them in 9 a while. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think -- on those, the 11 best of my recollection, when they do work on them -- on 12 those, they're old; they're showing it. You know, they act up 13 once in a while, but on those, we haven't had the serious 14 maintenance problems yet. Now, that doesn't mean that 15 tomorrow we won't have one go out, but they have done pretty 16 well. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I always keep one of those in 19 the budget if it had to, but I'm like Bruce. If they're 20 working fine now, let's don't just go in and replace them, and 21 then you have this same issue 20 years from now. Replace them 22 as you got to do the maintenance on them. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much is one of the big 24 units? Do we know? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tim, have you gotten a price on 8-31-07 bwk 38 1 one of them big 20-ton units? 2 MR. BOLLIER: The only price they gave, they told me 3 at the time when I had them up there that it was $1,000 per 4 ton. So, if it's a 10-ton air-conditioner unit up there, it 5 would be, like, $10,000 to replace. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put in, like $30,000, $40,000 7 for air-conditioning. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: There's 50 plugged in. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fifty's plugged in? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that reflected anywhere in 11 this stuff? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Plugged in 50. 13 MR. BOLLIER: I do have that on the -- on that 14 budget, the pricing, but that was the whole thing, all 20 15 units that are up there. There are 20 units up there total. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in here right now, doing 17 that amount. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because there will be some 19 other later on. The big water boiler out there, storage tank, 20 does have a small leak in it. Has for years. And that's 21 something I told Glenn Holekamp even before; we're going to 22 have to get it repaired, to look at that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The boiler? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In the boiler room, there's -- 25 that's a constant circulating hot water system. You know, 8-31-07 bwk 39 1 it's all the time, and that big tank in there is definitely 2 showing it. And the problem is, when they go to replace it, 3 you actually have to take out part of a wall on one side to 4 get that tank back out of there and get another one in there. 5 It's going to be a major deal when that tank goes. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I reckon. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good design. Take out the wall 8 so we can get the boiler out. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not that unusual at times with 10 major pieces of equipment. The hospital does it all the time. 11 They had to peel off a section of the roof over here to put in 12 an MRI machine. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Drop it in through the top. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They actually built the -- put 16 the tank in before they built the wall. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 19 Mr. Odom, did you provide the amount of money required to 20 finish that bridge at Flat Rock Lake Park to Ms. Hargis? 21 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't have it. 22 MR. ODOM: No, I have not given anything yet. I'm 23 trying to get a price for someone to help put it in place, and 24 then concrete would be next budget year, is what I was 25 thinking about. 8-31-07 bwk 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're working on next budget 2 year. 3 MR. ODOM: I know you are. So am I, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that's a big item 5 that needs to be in there. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's an item that needs to 7 be in there. That's the reason I asked the question. 8 MR. ODOM: I don't have that answer right now, but 9 I'll get you one on concrete. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Tim, where did you put the 12 air-conditioner money for the jail? 13 MR. BOLLIER: Sir? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where is the money for the 15 air-conditioners for the jail? 16 MR. BOLLIER: On the bottom of the budget that I 17 turned in. 18 MS. HARGIS: Oh, it's -- it's under Jail. It's -- 19 MR. BOLLIER: Under Jail. 20 MS. HARGIS: Hang on just a second. Capital Outlay. 21 Hang on just a second. If you look at your index -- 22 MR. BOLLIER: Should be at the bottom of the page. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Capital Outlay is 13,500. 24 Fifty-seven was the cars, wasn't it? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Maintenance is 67,2. 8-31-07 bwk 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 67,2. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that in my budget or 3 Maintenance budget? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Jail Maintenance. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jail Maintenance. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is it? Jail? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It's grouped under the Maintenance 8 tab. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: It's -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much is it? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 67,2 total. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: Part of that was -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 50,000 in there, that would be 16 fine. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: It's 50,000, another 10,000, and then 18 7,200 -- no, I'm thinking about the tractors. The 7,200, 19 that's in a different one. 20 MS. HARGIS: That's a different one. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 22 MS. HARGIS: This is, I think, the -- a scanning 23 system and -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. So, is that under the 25 Jail budget or the Maintenance budget? 8-31-07 bwk 42 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jail Maintenance. 2 MR. BOLLIER: Jail Maintenance, it should be. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which is under Maintenance, not 4 mine. Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: But we could charge that to your 6 budget, deduct something else in order to make that fit. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that would work good. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If you want to do that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was just wanting to -- I was 10 like Bruce. I was like Bruce. It was 13,000; I'm going, 11 "Where's the 50-some?" 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What was that about Crown Vics, 13 Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go back to Crown Vics and take 15 the Tahoes out; you just paid for your air-conditioners. I 16 like that plan. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. The 67 that's in 18 there, that's how many air-conditioners? 19 MS. HARGIS: I think we said four or five. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, 50,000 is the allowance for a 21 portion of A/C replacement, is what we plugged in when we were 22 having our earlier workshops. Out of a total of -- I believe 23 it was 200,000 was the total amount, and we factored in 50,000 24 for this year's, was the rationale. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will buy you 50 tons of 8-31-07 bwk 43 1 air conditioning. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what's the other 17 grand 3 in there, Capital Outlay? 4 MS. HARGIS: If you'll wait just a second, I'll pull 5 it on my backup files. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, you're supposed to 7 have that stuff just like that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I thought I had it, but I was 9 wrong. I thought 7,200 was for a mower, see. And -- and 10 7,200 is for a mower. That 7,200 is just somewhere else, 11 isn't it? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, that might be what it is. 14 MS. HARGIS: Oh, the rolling steel door. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doors. 16 MS. HARGIS: Don't you replace the rolling steel 17 door? 18 MR. BOLLIER: That's the sallyport door at the jail. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 20 MR. BOLLIER: I just -- I put that in there. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We do a lot of maintenance on 22 one of them. It is a working door; there's nothing wrong with 23 it, but once in a while they come up sideways or whatever, and 24 when they do, you got to replace a lot, 'cause it bends them 25 all up. But as far as motor-wise, working and that -- and, 8-31-07 bwk 44 1 personally, I don't think you need to replace the door, okay? 2 I wouldn't. I think there are some -- some other things that 3 probably should be, such as -- and I don't know if Tim put 4 these in -- the hot/cold water mix valves in all the pipe 5 chases -- 6 MR. BOLLIER: No, I didn't. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- into the tanks are 8 constantly going out. And, you know, they're having to adjust 9 them a different way, because they aren't replacing the 10 valves, and those valves are $800 a piece, and I've got 11 probably close to 100 of them in there. And this trying to -- 12 and it isn't working. I've got leaks in all the pipe chases 13 and that, but those are expensive items in the plumbing. 14 MS. HARGIS: So, you want to take the door out? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let's leave the door out, and 16 then put -- add back in -- I mean, I think jail's one of those 17 things that it's hard to budget. You may put in for a door, 18 and you may spend the money on, you know, other jail 19 maintenance. I think -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's got 70,000 under 21 jail repairs; let it come under that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Didn't look at his Jail 23 Maintenance budget. I don't know. But that would -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Close enough. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-31-07 bwk 45 1 MS. HARGIS: So take that door out; that'll give you 2 17. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take the door out. Then we'll 4 leave 50 for the air-conditioners. And take 17,2 -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tim, do you agree with that? 6 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, sit down. Hush. 8 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Are there any other -- then the 10 other maintenance item was in -- that's where the mower is, 11 the arena and the mower. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are we at now? 13 MS. HARGIS: They're in Parks Maintenance, which is 14 10-513, and that's under the Maintenance tab. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Capital Outlay. 16 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. Well, actually, no. I lied. 17 That's the windows. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the windows and the mower. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mower. 21 MS. HARGIS: Mower. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And mower, okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Parks Maintenance is now general 25 maintenance. Just take the term "parks" out of there, get rid 8-31-07 bwk 46 1 of it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, because I'm looking at 4 building repairs under Parks Maintenance for 67 -- 68,000. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's courthouse buildings 7 maintenance. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're -- we're going to roll together 9 that budget and the Courthouse and Related Buildings. The 10 only other separate maintenance budgets we're going to have 11 are the Youth Exhibit Center and the Jail. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: We just can't roll them until the end 14 of the year. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: So, that's the windows in that one, 17 mower, and then I think the -- under the Youth Exhibit Center 18 is where the arena is; it's 150,000. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MS. HARGIS: So, those are our big-ticket items. 21 They're really all in the maintenance area. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'd sure like to see us 23 plug in for those three elected officials that I mentioned 24 earlier, getting them up to 52,000. I think that's $4,000; it 25 would be times three, be $12,000, what it would cost to raise 8-31-07 bwk 47 1 the three big department heads/elected officials. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Being the County Clerk, District 3 Clerk, Tax Assessor? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: County Clerk, District Clerk, 5 Tax Assessor. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to see generally what 7 the H.R. Director -- I think she's been doing some work there. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Look at the whole gamut. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just wanted to mention that 12 before we move on to something else. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See the whole list. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of -- to me, it's kind 15 of where we are. I mean, that's the last item. There's going 16 to be some adjustments. I mean, I think that the -- under the 17 arena, we need to add more money to that. If we're going to 18 do any kind of a debt, I'm not sure what that should be. You 19 know, that's just -- that's a hard number to call. I think, 20 obviously, we're going to have to pay for a design fee. I 21 think we're going to have some sewer connections up there. I 22 know the interior -- Tim, do you have any kind of a ballpark 23 to revamp or redo the interior of the current arena? 24 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir, I do not. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, last time we looked at 8-31-07 bwk 48 1 that, which was a few years ago, we talked about insulation, 2 air movers, lighting, sound, all those things that need to be 3 included in any kind of revamping of that arena, 4 rehabilitation of the arena. They haven't changed. They've 5 only gotten worse. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a big number, probably 8 close to half a million for that right there. Now, I wouldn't 9 -- you know, insulation is not going to be a cheap thing. 10 It's in pretty bad shape. I mean, it's falling -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct me if I'm wrong, gentlemen. 12 What I see evolving here is we want to look at a -- a 13 short-term/long-term debt issue on the capital items, look at 14 a COLA for -- plugged in for all employees, look to the H.R. 15 Director's guidance for individual salary adjustments in 16 individual areas, and move the balance over to augment 17 reserves. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to have to -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Salaries to include also 21 getting department -- department heads or supervisors' 22 salaries, I think -- I've looked. I believe you have adjusted 23 those up to put people in the proper place with the proper 24 money. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: These are some of the things that the 8-31-07 bwk 49 1 H.R. Director has been looking at, and that's part of those 2 individual -- 3 MS. HYDE: Those are all taken out. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But the -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In or out? 6 MS. HYDE: They're out. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All the salaries -- 8 MS. HYDE: Out of this. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- are not there? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we see what it is 11 Ms. Hyde's waving back there? 12 MS. HARGIS: Do you have it? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are those recommendations or 14 what? 15 MS. HYDE: I pulled the net -- the budgeted change 16 again, so people were kind of confused. This is what I had 17 given y'all. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We are going to have to -- when we 19 set the tax rate, we're going to have to modify the Road and 20 Bridge just very, very slightly to keep them within rollback. 21 That's a given. And then we need to -- one more? Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: What I suggested before was a 3.5 COLA. 23 I think that Commissioner Letz said a 3.3. And then, in 24 addition to the 3.5, there were also some suggestions. After 25 going through all the salaries I could find, the 8-31-07 bwk 50 1 cost-of-living in this area, that final column is my 2 recommendations -- those final two columns. 3.5 COLA for the 3 department heads/elected officials on here, and also a 4 3.5 percent increase. In some cases, there's more. The 5 parity and consistency wasn't there in some of these 6 locations, and some of our people just were under the radar, I 7 think. They weren't showing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, you had your hand up a 9 minute ago. Was it related to this stuff? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No, something else. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What you've got here, Ms. -- 13 Ms. Hyde, is your recommendation as to these listed positions, 14 and then you have calculated in the last column a 3.5 COLA? 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is your recommendation generally a 17 3.5 COLA across the board, as opposed to 3.3 or 3.7 or -- 18 MS. HYDE: Yes. I went ahead and I did a 3.5 across 19 the board, so once we -- once I did the second-to-last column, 20 which brought people in parity and consistency, the easiest 21 way to then do it is to have a straight across-the-board 22 increase, and that would allow you and Commissioners Court to 23 look at these and determine whether or not you wanted to give 24 a full 3.5 percent increase to bring them up. But, yes, sir, 25 3.5 is what I -- what I recommended, and still recommend, if 8-31-07 bwk 51 1 we have the money. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not real clear. 3.5 3 COLA. All I see on here is elected officials and department 4 heads. Are we talking about all the indians? Or are we 5 talking about just -- 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, it was all the indians. But 7 y'all didn't want to see a whole position schedule, so I 8 didn't recommend 3.5 percent -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. "Yes" is the 10 answer. 11 MS. HYDE: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are some significant 14 salary adjustments for certain department heads. 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on? 17 MS. HYDE: Well, if you look at the Maintenance 18 Department, in 2006 and '7, there was a 60 -- 59 percent 19 decrease in the salary from the year prior. I asked for 20 21 percent to be put back, to put that at $36,000 for the 21 Maintenance head. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, we're going back 23 to -- we're putting the Maintenance Supervisor's salary back 24 close to where it was when we had a Maintenance Supervisor? 25 MS. HYDE: It's still a lot less than it was. I 8-31-07 bwk 52 1 think it was at 48 in the budget, and so -- but I think that 2 at that time, there was a couple of other hats on that person. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MS. HYDE: So I tried to use what I could find 5 across -- across our area. 6 MS. HARGIS: I think it's actually 44. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Maintenance will be 8 37,305. 9 MS. HARGIS: Well, I don't want to figure the COLA; 10 I'd rather you take the COLA separate from the raises, 11 because -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just figuring whatever. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 37,305, is that -- 14 MS. HARGIS: After the COLA. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After the COLA, okay. All 16 right. And that fourth column from the right, '07-'08 is 17 written in there. 18 MS. HARGIS: Really, the recommended raise is -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 36,000. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And where is that person 24 today? Help me. 25 MS. HARGIS: That's Tim. 8-31-07 bwk 53 1 MS. HYDE: Go back over two columns. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Two columns to the left. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 28? Okay, I'm with you now. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: When you redo your calculations to 5 try and put all of this budgetary impact in perspective that 6 we've been talking about here this morning, Ms. Hargis, 7 calculate these as an option without the COLA, of course, 8 'cause like you say, the COLA needs to be separate and apart. 9 I think the total amount is not really that great when you 10 accumulate it. But -- 11 MS. HYDE: That handwritten number down at the 12 bottom is the difference. 13 MS. HARGIS: Keep that in mind. A lot of these are 14 going to be multiplied times four, 'cause if you do 15 constables, you do four. If you do justice of the peace, you 16 do four. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 MS. HARGIS: And then once we do this, then I will, 19 you know, need to take that -- that position schedule so we 20 come out with what our true COLA is. 'Cause right now -- and 21 we had -- I haven't plugged in the Sheriff's Department 22 changes that he had, moving people around the other day, 23 'cause I just got those Tuesday. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and you're going to have to 25 calculate off of this next-to-the-last set of columns; you're 8-31-07 bwk 54 1 going to have to calculate the rollups to -- to have the total 2 budgetary impact. 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, I -- my position schedule, once 4 we get everybody in there at what they're going to make, it 5 should -- we'll automatically pull that. Which will -- you 6 know, but I just need to know. And I'll have to work with Eva 7 on that to make sure that we get everybody -- got everybody's 8 name on there; everybody's on there. And I'm not so sure we 9 don't need a little bit of play, 'cause we're going to miss 10 one. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, we probably 12 shouldn't go into looking at some of these individually, 13 but -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you're going to anyway. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- but I probably will. I mean, 16 I don't -- the COLA, I think, should be whatever we decide on 17 for the employees, the same as what everybody else -- everyone 18 gets the same COLA. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see an increase for 21 County Judge, Commissioners, Treasurer. Really, in my mind, 22 County Attorney, Constables, Road and Bridge, Environmental 23 Health, Animal Control. I'd probably reduce the H.R.'s 24 probably to half of what was shown. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What are you thinking those 8-31-07 bwk 55 1 numbers ought to be in those certain areas? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those ones, I'd say they just 3 get the COLA; they don't get the increase. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those the only ones you 5 want to starve their family to death? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. (Laughter.) I mean, 7 I'm against Christmas lighting, so might as well be against 8 families too. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's a hodgepodge, 10 isn't it? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No Christmas. No families. 12 We're going to have to take up a collection for Jon's kids at 13 Christmas. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's just kind of the 15 way -- I kind of see it as workloads; things like that change. 16 And I can go -- give you my logic behind it, poor as that may 17 be. But just, you know, I think some departments need to get 18 adjusted more. As an example, J.P.'s; I think J.P.'s got an 19 increased workload this year, just due to Legislature, but I 20 don't see constables really getting anything different. I 21 think constables get a pretty good deal, and they get cars, so 22 I think constables don't need an increase, but I think J.P.'s 23 are warranted one. I think our Road and Bridge Administrator 24 gets paid, you know, a lot. He had quite a few -- not too 25 much. I'm just saying what you -- 8-31-07 bwk 56 1 MR. ODOM: Don't add no more, then. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we added things, and we did 3 a lot of pretty significant increases if you go back to 2001. 4 So, I think that there's -- you know, I think we've made some 5 of the adjustments in the past. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, but you -- I don't know 7 that this is a fact, but you could possibly see if you -- you 8 know, the law changed, and you created more work for the 9 J.P.'s, and I agree with that. Therefore, that might create 10 more work for constables. I don't know that that's true. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But generally, it does. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I'm not going to bat 15 for anybody; I'm just saying that I think there's flaws in 16 your thinking. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We sure don't want to show up at 18 Jon's house for Christmas; it'll get a little meager, won't 19 it? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bring your own, I can tell 21 you. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster, just my ideas. I'm just 23 one vote. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a little different 25 idea with respect to the Treasurer. I think that office ought 8-31-07 bwk 57 1 to be brought back to the parity of the other elected 2 officials as well. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My logic there is that job has 4 changed significantly since -- not that it's not important, 5 but a big function -- part of that went to the H.R. 6 Department, what was in there historically. 7 MS. HYDE: Part of what went to H.R.? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the Treasurer's jobs, 9 historically. Two years ago, the Treasurer was doing what you 10 -- the H.R. is now doing, so I think there's been a reduction 11 in the Treasurer's -- what that person's doing in the last two 12 years. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's been reduced, 14 though. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has been reduced. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Reduced last -- for this year. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just not increasing it back 18 up. I'm not reducing it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm making a case to get the 20 parity back. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not jumping it back up. 22 MS. HYDE: So -- I'm sure I misunderstood. You do 23 see that there is a difference in what was before you had an 24 H.R. person and after, though, right? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 8-31-07 bwk 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think if you look at how 2 we're compensating for all of that work, we've increased it, 3 and we're getting a -- you know, the service where it should 4 be, what we want. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. So, you're talking 6 about not in -- not giving COLA's to -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not giving -- everyone gets 8 a COLA. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everybody gets a COLA. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: COLA top to bottom. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you're just talking about 12 not giving the other increases to the Treasurer, County 13 Attorney, Road and Bridge, and Environmental Health. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Environmental Health, and -- and 15 Commissioners and County Judge. And I guess I have a little 16 bit of a question in my mind between Animal Control and 17 Maintenance. I don't think those are -- should be the same. 18 I'm not saying Animal Control shouldn't be brought up, but I 19 don't think -- I think one has more responsibility than the 20 other in the supervision. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which one has the more 22 responsibility? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Maintenance does. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They may have, but boy, I tell 25 you what, Animal Control is -- they're pretty strapped too. 8-31-07 bwk 59 1 And they're only getting -- I mean, I don't disagree that 2 there's a lot of things that -- 3 MS. HARGIS: Why don't we give you a list and give 4 you the actual amount of increase, and then y'all can make 5 your decision at next Tuesday's meeting? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good idea. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think we need to -- 8 MS. HARGIS: But do we want to go with the COLA? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- do the recalculations. 10 MS. HARGIS: Right, but I need a COLA amount. We 11 have 3 and 3.5. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3.3. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what are we saying? 14 She's going to work up the numbers off this schedule right 15 here? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That portion of the numbers will come 18 off the schedule. 19 MS. HARGIS: To give you the exact difference that 20 it was going to make. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exactly. Good. 22 MS. HARGIS: So you know the total amount that 23 you're actually increasing. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a COLA fan, because it's 25 directly related to reality; that it costs people to go to 8-31-07 bwk 60 1 H.E.B. and buy milk for their little babies. Unlike Jon. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He just milks a goat, right? 3 (Laughter.) 4 MS. HYDE: Oh, ouch. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With love and affection, 6 Commissioner. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You are now labeled the grinch. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't let the goat die. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I think, because -- you 10 know, and I wish we had a real number from some index 11 somewhere. Of course, there's a court order that says that 12 we're tied to an index somewhere, but we never do that. But 13 I'd be willing to bet that 3.5 is real close, or maybe even 14 under some. But I would personally go with a 3.5 as opposed 15 to 3.3. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just me. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm kind of with you, and 18 I'd like to hear Ms. Hyde's rationale for proposing 3.5. 19 MS. HYDE: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Help us understand where you 21 are on that issue. 22 MS. HYDE: As far as the court order, I couldn't 23 find a court order that specific -- that specified a specific 24 index. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry Griffin. 8-31-07 bwk 61 1 MS. HYDE: The index that was specified within the 2 discussions no longer exists; the D.O.L. has changed that 3 index. So, there's a government index, there's an all wage 4 earners, all urban wage earners, and there's a multitude of 5 different types. Typically, our folks would be considered all 6 urban wage earners, clerical. The majority of our folks are 7 like that. Of course, there's the exception in the jail, the 8 J.D.C., law enforcement, and you can look at those. You also 9 look at -- I looked at counties that were similar; you guys 10 got that information. Looked at tax information so that I 11 could have something in black and white, but I also looked at 12 local agencies here and what they pay, and what their increase 13 was going to be this year, because we live in Kerr County. 14 And then I looked at the cost of a home. I looked at multiple 15 types of areas. Although our cost-of-living, per se, is 16 lower, the cost to purchase a home in this area is extremely 17 high. The average cost of a 3-bedroom, 2-bath house is 18 between $180,000 and $225,000. That's large. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you can find it. 20 MS. HYDE: If you can find one. So, taking all 21 those factors into consideration, I did the old-fashioned plus 22 and minus and Texas math, and ended up with 3.5. But then I 23 looked at our appointed/elected department heads and looked at 24 their salaries, and tried to figure out where they stood in 25 comparison with others. Because I can't compare it to 8-31-07 bwk 62 1 anything here locally, not really. If I compare it to the 2 City, y'all laugh and say, "Nope, we're not like the City." 3 If I tried to compare it to the hospital, "Nope, we're not 4 like the hospital." 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, a 3.5. 6 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 (Applause.) 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was a good 10 dissertation, Ms. Hyde. 11 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you prepared to keep talking 13 until you heard that? 14 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. He knew I was talking to 15 him. 16 MS. HARGIS: Having a filibuster here. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's filibuster. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we could still get 19 another 100,000 out of the Sheriff's budget. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, don't take this filibuster 21 idea to mind; it won't work for you. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've tried it every year; it 23 never worked for me. I'm proud of Eva. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Kevin, you had -- 25 MR. STANTON: I just had a question. Is the -- the 8-31-07 bwk 63 1 camera situation out at the facility, is that included in the 2 -- the numbers that she's been talking about? I just didn't 3 know if it was in there. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw a head shake 5 affirmatively by the Auditor. 6 MS. HARGIS: Pretty sure it's in there. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Think we can get another 8 100,000 out of the Sheriff's budget somewhere? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 MS. HARGIS: I think it was, as I recall, to 11 change -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least a hundred, maybe 13 three. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Another hundred? 15 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 16 MS. HARGIS: He's going to give us some money real 17 quick. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think he needs to give us a 19 little more. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff is going to give you some 21 money. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait. Wait, Sheriff, the 23 Auditor had his hand raised before you -- ex-Auditor, I'm 24 sorry. Former. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Just a reminder, that the 8 percent 8-31-07 bwk 64 1 of your general tax levy for indigent health is approximately 2 1.3 million. We only have 800,000 budgeted for Indigent 3 Health. That's -- that's going to -- that's under 6 percent. 4 So, our liability could reach a million, two. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What have we been running the 6 past couple years? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: We've been running right at six, and 8 last year, it was 880,000. This year it's going to run 800, 9 850, maybe a little more. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So maybe we should budget, like, 11 900,000 there. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: So I just -- I just put this out 13 there for you to think about. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There went the other 100,000 15 from Rusty to pay for indigent health care. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a variable. You 17 never know. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, you don't have any 19 idea. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Never know. 21 MS. HARGIS: It's also going to -- because we put 22 the people at the jail on that program as well. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MS. HARGIS: Which has saved us money. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's Rusty fault. 8-31-07 bwk 65 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it's Rusty fault. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Usually. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we can get some of those 4 people out of jail out there; indigent costs wouldn't be quite 5 as high. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd sure go for that; wouldn't 7 bother me one bit. One area y'all told me under the budget is 8 Courthouse Security. You wanted me to come back with some 9 figures. Right now, I think she probably even still has from 10 the latest printout I have, under security improvements, 11 25,000. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Two components. Panic system, 15; 13 keypads, 10. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The actual price, and what I 15 would suggest probably doing, unless you want to put it in 16 your long-term stuff, is the keyless entry, the keypad -- now, 17 the pad entry is 9,603. The panic system is 26,000. Now, 18 what Chuck -- and I don't know if Jannett's in here or not. 19 What they've told me they've been doing is, Chuck has a pager 20 that he does carry. They have quick-dialed, dialed into most 21 of their phone systems, and so Chuck says they're getting 22 ahold of him real quick, okay? As far as panic. You may want 23 to wait until the following year to do the 26,000 on the panic 24 system. But do the keyless entry so we can secure the doors 25 better at that 9,600, and that would cut from the 25,000 you 8-31-07 bwk 66 1 have programmed in there right now back down to 9,600. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that option, 'cause I'm 3 not sold on the panic system anyway. I'm not -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not really sold on the keyless 5 entry. You know, I think we've improved considerably just by 6 closing off that downstairs. 7 MS. HARGIS: Let me put my Auditor hat on here. We 8 just finished doing J.P. 1, and I visited J.P. 3. Those girls 9 are by themselves in those facilities most of the time. And I 10 don't know that -- you know, they're so open, how they could 11 even reach the speed dial. But one of them is down in the 12 basement, and she is inside of a corridor with other people, 13 but if she screamed, they have -- those walls are pretty 14 thick; there is no way. And -- and Elsa, because people go in 15 that office just because it's the first one there. Those 16 girls are -- and they've got money, a lot -- a lot of money. 17 And they're sitting on that money, and they deposit it, but 18 they can have as much as $10,000 dollars in one day, and 19 that's enough to hit somebody over the head for and run. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I personally think there's one 21 other security issue, which the Parole Department would not 22 like me saying this, but since the Treasurer's office has 23 moved down into this part -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's gone. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are they gone? 8-31-07 bwk 67 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Parole's gone. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was hoping, 'cause I think 3 that's wrong. 4 MS. HARGIS: So I think that maybe we might look at 5 some -- some way of assisting those girls if we don't go with 6 the panic system, 'cause they need something in there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with that. I 8 just think that the -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 26,016, push-button. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's a system we 11 could put in that'll solve those issues, and I agree, people 12 that are handling a fair amount of cash, they're different, 13 because I think they're more likely to get -- to have a 14 problem. But I just think the -- the chance of a mistake of 15 a -- everyone kind of flying through the airport -- not 16 through the airport, through the courthouse, you know -- I 17 guess false alarm concerns me. But I think we do need to, you 18 know, do what we need to do to secure these offices. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other thing -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe it's key -- put some sort 21 of a lock system on the doors at the J.P.'s. I mean, J.P. 3, 22 for example, I mean, it's -- her office is at the very far 23 back of it, anyway. And, you know, it wouldn't be all bad to 24 have some sort of a buzzer to open the door during certain 25 times of the -- when there's not two people in that office or 8-31-07 bwk 68 1 something like that. I mean, there's other ways. I think 2 that we may want to look at that. 3 MS. HARGIS: But I -- you know, I'm not -- I mean, 4 this is just my observation from preparing the audits, working 5 on J.P. 1's. So, I think I'm -- you know, maybe the Sheriff 6 and the J.P.'s can work together to come up with something 7 better, but I do think those girls are -- they need something 8 besides -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: There really is a better technology 10 solution to panic buttons. If they're going to be sitting in 11 front of the computers, there's plenty of options. There are 12 plenty of options using the computer to initiate a panic call. 13 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 14 MR. TROLINGER: But I do agree that the keyless 15 entry is needed, because as part of the keyless entry, that 16 can be tied in with a -- with a time card system, for 17 instance. It gives us a lot of options. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you add onto it. This will 19 not have that -- those features, but it will be expandable. 20 Now, the other thing that I -- I would recommend going with a 21 keyless entry. I think we need that. There's too many times 22 that we find a door unlocked or things like that, even on 23 weekends and at night. And I think a keyless entry would be 24 very wise, and lock automatically. The other thing that I am 25 planning on doing -- it may not have the biggest benefit right 8-31-07 bwk 69 1 off, but the Legislature changed where now, especially 2 starting -- I have to have it by January 1st; every law 3 enforcement officer, jailer, everybody else with our 4 department has to have issued a tamperproof identification 5 card. So, it's going to look like your driver's license. 6 Each department has to do it. We've worked with Trolinger a 7 little bit. We've got -- I'm purchasing a laser printer and a 8 sealer. They will come out identical to a driver's license, 9 have to have a state seal on them and all that. What I'm also 10 recommending, since we will have that capability, even by the 11 end of the month -- next month, is that gradually we issue 12 every Kerr County employee a tamperproof identification card. 13 We've got a lot of employees; I don't know half of them, and I 14 just think it would be very wise. We will be able to do that, 15 with some added expense of the laminate stuff and card stock, 16 once we have this in place. So, the keyless entry that -- 17 that we're already going to do, that doesn't add into the 18 budget. I would recommend it for this year, and let's look at 19 everything as a whole. 20 MS. HARGIS: That also helps some of our employees 21 who don't have bank -- any other form of identity besides 22 their driver's license to get their checks cashed. We looked 23 -- we had that problem at the City, and so they were looking 24 into doing the same thing. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When are we meeting again? 8-31-07 bwk 70 1 Tuesday? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you -- 3 MS. HARGIS: I just want to take this opportunity to 4 -- and I haven't been around to all the J.P.'s, but I'd 5 like -- and I haven't really audited J.P. 3, but J.P. 1 and 6 J.P. 3, their offices are very well intact, and they're doing 7 a good job, and I really appreciate especially J.P. 3 going 8 through those boxes, and her clerk, and getting all that done. 9 And I think they've done a real commendable job, so I just 10 want to mention that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any questions about what 12 you see as a direction from the Court, what you -- 13 MS. HARGIS: I will go back, plug in the 3.5 COLA. 14 I will come up with a long-term debt solution, and I may get 15 with Bruce to see what we want to do about the arena, and then 16 we'll give you that list of salaries so that you can decide 17 what you want to do. And then I would suggest you put this on 18 the agenda for your special meeting so we can get these 19 changes plugged in, so you can have a budget that's -- a 20 proposed budget on the 10th that's ready to roll. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I heard 100,000 out of the 22 Sheriff's salary. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Salary? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Salary? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, out of the Jailers Salary 8-31-07 bwk 71 1 line item. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He'd be in a negative 3 position. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have anything 5 they want to add to what the Auditor just mentioned as she 6 perceives as her charge at this point? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be sure and get that number 8 from Mr. Odom. 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes, I've got that as well. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Four Crown Vics and one Tahoe. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be adjourned. 15 (Budget workshop adjourned at 11:04 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-31-07 bwk 72 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of 9 September, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-31-07 bwk