1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, September 4, 2007 11 10:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 4, 2007 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2007-08 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure, and personnel matters related 4 thereto for various county departments 3 5 Adjourned 101 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, September 4, 2007, at 10:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I will call to order a Commissioners 8 Court workshop posted for this time and date, Tuesday, 9 September 4th, 2007, at 10 a.m. It is a bit past that time 10 now. The agenda item for the workshop is to review and 11 discuss Fiscal Year 2007-08 budgets, and fiscal capital 12 expenditure and personnel matters related thereto for various 13 county departments. I'm looking for Ms. Hargis. She probably 14 didn't know we were going to get to her this quickly. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're speedy. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 MR. TROLINGER: Ms. Hargis needs about five minutes, 18 Judge. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Ms. Hargis is working 20 on some items that were given to her as a result of the last 21 workshop, and I assume she's getting those plugged in. She's 22 rolling the capital items over to another list. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me say something 24 right quick. Back to the J.P. and the constable issue, we 25 have to fill that constable slot now, and we have a meeting 9-4-07 bwk 4 1 Monday, the 10th, I think. We'd like to do it that day. I 2 mean, we need to get that slot filled. We have -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The sooner we fill that slot, the -- 4 the sooner it's going to have budgetary impact? I assume 5 that's why you're bringing it up in this context? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, I am. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I thought. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- (Laughter.) Is Rex 9 still in the room? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, he's there. He's looking at us. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's nodding all of a sudden. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's exactly the 14 reason. And not to mention the stopping government, but 15 that's not important. It's budget that's important. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you finish that train of 17 thought? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Rex still in the room? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, he is. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of that budgetary impact, I 21 assume you're going to submit an agenda item for our -- for 22 our next regular meeting, which is on the 10th of September? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if I can talk 24 about that or not, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 9-4-07 bwk 5 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was purely informational, 2 correct? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was. I thought we were at 4 the information part of the -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We do have one of those -- no, 6 correction, that was on the last agenda. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, where's our new tech 8 person from? 9 MR. TROLINGER: He's from Kerrville. He's local. 10 Local family, been here for quite a while, from down in south 11 Kerrville. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems real nice. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Top quality. I'm really pleased 14 with him. He took off and started running this morning, 15 literally. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You have a drumroll? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just come straight to the 18 podium. 19 MS. HARGIS: Oh, great. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis? I want to say 21 something to you. I really like this -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- thing that you have put 24 together here. I've got one question about it, though. 25 MS. HARGIS: Uh-oh. 9-4-07 bwk 6 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner 4 has pretty 2 green, and Letz has red. The Judge has yellow. Commissioner 3 Williams has blue. Mine is pink. (Laughter.) Is there -- I 4 mean, is there something we're trying to say here? Or -- 5 MS. HARGIS: The -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just come out with it. Don't 7 be shy. 8 MS. HARGIS: All right, why not? The girls said 9 that you like -- you had a pink shirt, and that only real men 10 can wear pink, so you got pink. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Boy, she thinks quickly on 13 her feet, doesn't she? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's quick. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those were quotes, actually. 16 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Let me pass around -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You just wanted to be sure that got 18 on the record. You already knew that, didn't you? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. I still think we need 20 to fill -- complete the constable position, though. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I got two different -- we have 22 two pages? 23 MS. HARGIS: You should, that's right. You did -- 24 you have one there that you shouldn't have. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 9-4-07 bwk 7 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You only get one at a time. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not general information. 3 MS. HARGIS: No. It's coming around; it's just -- I 4 wondered why I didn't have enough of that one. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have another one? 6 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. You got one? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We still got two shy. 8 MS. HARGIS: I think what happened is, it sorted 9 them. I wonder if I -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure. 11 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Did everyone get one of those? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we're okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: Now, then, everybody should get one of 14 these, and then everybody should get one of these. Now, I did 15 not put people; I put positions, okay? I thought that was 16 easier. I didn't know if you wanted to go in executive 17 session on this or not. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On -- just on the salary sheet, 19 the first page, the proposed salary includes the COLA or does 20 not include the COLA? 21 MS. HARGIS: Does not include the COLA. The 22 difference -- the increases in the third column, the bold 23 amount, and then the Medicare, retirement, and the additional 24 COLA is the -- that they would have received is 2813. So, 25 it's a combination of those two columns. 9-4-07 bwk 8 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask one question. You 2 have the current salary and then the proposed salary. How did 3 it increase if there's not a COLA or -- 4 MS. HARGIS: It's a proposed increase. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 6 MS. HARGIS: Just a proposed increase. It has 7 nothing to do with COLA. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Look at that 9 County Attorney guy. Whew. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Worth every penny. 11 MR. EMERSON: Not even sure what you're talking 12 about, so... 13 MS. HARGIS: Everyone would have received a COLA 14 anyway, so the difference if -- if everybody got the proposed 15 increases, the difference in the COLA would be 2813. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm going to have to be a 17 little stingy, I guess, on this on one particular issue, and 18 that's your salary, Ms. Hargis. You just started a month ago, 19 and I can't see paying a COLA or any increase in the first 20 year. 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay, you take that out. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, that's just -- I 23 don't think that's fair to anybody else. 24 MS. HARGIS: I don't get a COLA either? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the COLA would be -- 9-4-07 bwk 9 1 should stay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's up to the Court. I'm 3 just saying what I think, you know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, again, the COLA -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A COLA after one month is not, 6 in my opinion, justified. 7 MS. HARGIS: I'll be here three months by the time 8 the COLA goes into effect. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the COLA should be 10 there, because the COLA is a cost-of-living. It costs her to 11 go to H.E.B. just like it does us. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Except she hasn't been to 13 H.E.B. but a couple times since she's been here. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But under that logic, though, 15 you know, anyone that gets -- you would prorate COLA's based 16 on when you start in the year. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Like I say, it's up to the 18 pleasure of the Court. That's just my thought. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where do these numbers come 20 from? 21 MS. HARGIS: The recommendations came from this 22 sheet that -- that Eva gave you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But some of them are different 24 than on that sheet. 25 MS. HARGIS: No. 9-4-07 bwk 10 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What, Letz? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had trouble with that 3 sheet before. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see. 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay, on her sheet, the -- if you go 6 actually from the right to the left -- one, two, three, four, 7 five -- the sixth column over, that's the current salary. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 MS. HARGIS: All right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 11 MS. HARGIS: And then it's possible I could have 12 gotten one of them wrong. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You got -- I mean, H.R.'s -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, I got -- I got the County 15 Attorney's wrong. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And H.R.'s doesn't show the 17 increase that was shown on that prior sheet. 18 MS. HARGIS: I was asked to remove that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She lowered it. 20 MS. HARGIS: I lowered it, 'cause it would take away 21 any of the supposed bias that I heard about Friday afternoon, 22 and to do the right thing. Because the ones that I told you 23 guys that I truly felt needed to be increased were I.T. -- 24 I.T., Maintenance, and Animal Control. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But I think the discussion was to 9-4-07 bwk 11 1 place that at the same percentage as almost all of the others. 2 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Rather than a different percentage. 4 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. It shows 3.5 just like the 5 rest of them. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm looking at does not show 7 that. 8 MS. HARGIS: It shows the COLA. Doesn't show a 3.5 9 increase. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to plug in 1838. 11 MS. HARGIS: It's in the last column. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to plug it in the 13 next-to-last column. 14 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I didn't understand. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Which will change the second column. 16 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 18 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. And I don't have the constables 19 in there right. I get -- I was -- theirs should be 33,994. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: H.R. Director currently is 21 at 52,5 or 50? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 52,5. 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. I updated the sheets for 24 y'all. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Updated this sheet? 9-4-07 bwk 12 1 MS. HYDE: Yep. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that one. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got sheets on top of sheets 4 here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, that's what we got. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the same one, isn't it? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's updated, she said. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, let me have one of that, 9 then. 10 MS. HARGIS: That's going to make a little bit of 11 difference. I can go reprint this one real quick. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 MS. HARGIS: Do you want me to do that? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, if you would. It would be 15 easier if you get this one -- at least get them in line. 16 MS. HARGIS: Okay, give me five minutes. 17 MR. EMERSON: Can I make one comment? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 MR. EMERSON: If y'all are looking at this master 20 sheet, the COLA should only be on my county part of my salary, 21 not the state supplement included. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 23 MR. EMERSON: Which means that this is overstated. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't she need to be called 9-4-07 bwk 13 1 and told that while she's correcting it? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be the same with the 3 County Judge. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the only two that get the 8 big supplements from the state, right? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, "big" is a relative term. I'll 10 trade with Rex. I doubt that he wants to trade with me. 11 MR. EMERSON: You know, it's a unique opportunity, 12 but I think I'll pass. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. It may not be the only time 14 you get that opportunity. I may offer it to you again. 15 MR. EMERSON: I suspect I'll pass again. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Lest you think that this is the last 17 shot at it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that Eva there, or is that 19 somebody -- oh, there's Eva there. All I saw was blond and 20 red hair. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, if we get a chance, 22 there's two line items that I just really need to address the 23 Court about in the Sheriff's budget. That y'all -- 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We had one chance that was remaining, 9-4-07 bwk 14 1 and Buster took that a while ago when he talked about the 2 position, so we're out of chances. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two line items. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You took the chance, Buster. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they beating up on you 6 again? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- looking at this, 8 I guess the rest of the Court didn't concur with my assessment 9 at the end of last meeting. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess not. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Considering I recommended some 12 changes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you would have to 14 admit that your suggestions were -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Draconian? I don't think so. I 16 thought they were good, but -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They were rather subjective 18 to your point of view. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I got that same thing just a 20 second ago, so it shouldn't be a shock to you either. 21 MS. UECKER: Judge Tinley? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 23 MS. UECKER: On my budget, on the proposed Records 24 Preservation, we had 29 in there, and he said the Auditor 25 showed 22 for my old records. What do you have? 9-4-07 bwk 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'll certainly take a look. 2 MS. UECKER: Appreciate it. 3 MR. TROLINGER: It's 28-635. 4 MS. UECKER: Yes, 28-635-411. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 22. 6 MS. UECKER: 22, okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: As I recall, we were going to 8 increase that 8,000; then we put 8,000 somewhere else. Does 9 that ring a bell with you? That may not have been the same 10 one, but -- 11 MS. UECKER: Well, there's 8,000 in my -- in my 12 budget, in the office budget, for just the standard stuff. 13 This is -- this is to finish that up, that old records 14 project. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's special fund money, isn't it? 16 MS. UECKER: Right, that's dedicated money. And if 17 we could raise that back to 29, that would be wonderful. Oh, 18 now -- well, let's see. Yeah, that's right. And then we had 19 five in the other one. That -- that's where it is, I bet. 20 There's five in 33-635. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: One is a joint account that you share 22 with the County Clerk; the other is exclusively yours, 23 correct? 24 MS. UECKER: Right, mm-hmm. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's where we -- yours 9-4-07 bwk 16 1 exclusively is where we put the five. 2 MS. UECKER: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that -- does that necessitate 4 any further change from the 22, then? 5 MS. UECKER: What do you think? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Be nice to complete that project. 7 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I'd like to. Can we raise it 8 back to 29? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that one of the funds that 10 there's a pretty good balance in? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 MS. UECKER: Yes. I -- that's the fund that's 13 for -- Jannett and I collect money to put into that fund, and 14 I think the -- the J.P.'s as well, and that's for everybody. 15 I mean, even the Court could use that for records 16 preservation. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On one of those Records 18 Preservations, I recall there's a balance of about 160,000. 19 Is this the -- 20 MS. PIEPER: I think that's my dedicated fund. 21 MS. UECKER: Jannett has one that she uses all by 22 herself. 23 MS. PIEPER: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It's got 77,6 going into the year. 25 MS. UECKER: Okay. Back to 29? 9-4-07 bwk 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: It generates about 35. 2 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It will generate about 35,000 this 4 year. 5 MS. UECKER: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else did you -- 7 MS. UECKER: You put that one back at 29? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 9 MS. UECKER: Okay, thanks. That's it. 10 MS. PIEPER: Need to make sure the Auditor knows. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The two -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we'll take one. If we don't 13 like the one, you won't get two. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Sheriff's budget, 15 10-560-316, Uniforms. I think I originally requested ten. 16 You cut that to five. The only issue I had with that is, 17 that's not just deputy uniforms; that's bulletproof vests, and 18 they're about 800 a piece. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: According to this, you only requested 20 five and you got five. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, on mine, I requested ten 22 and got five. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm-mm. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I'm showing you. 25 Asked for ten and got five. We have replaced most of them, so 9-4-07 bwk 18 1 I could probably get by with eight and not a full ten. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, now we're playing poker. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I just -- I'm trying to 4 anticipate my vests that expire. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You got eight; he wrote eight 6 down. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the other one was on 8 training. Which is -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the ammo issue, 487? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. What do you have that set 11 at now? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 21,820. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. That's what I -- it had 14 gone down, but I guess it's plugged back in. That's fine. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think we increased that 16 back up when we found out that included ammo. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And that the ammo issue had gotten 19 somewhat critical. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It has. That's it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: I've reduced -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Have a nice day, Sheriff. You need 24 to be out on the street catching all the bad guys. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's raining; I'm going to stay 9-4-07 bwk 19 1 right here. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Where's the element of trust that we 3 enjoy? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's been watching us 5 whack his jailer budget now for six months, so... 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can take another hundred 7 out of that one before -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before it's all over with. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll make it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You got more than one there, Jon? 13 No? Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you missing one? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't need one. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure you do. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make copies. 18 MS. HARGIS: Oh, I've got plenty. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He needs one more. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need one more. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Ms. Hyde here? 22 MS. HARGIS: She's outside the door. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We made her mad already? 24 MS. HARGIS: I didn't change mine; I forgot, so just 25 mark through that one again. 9-4-07 bwk 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hyde, on the -- your 2 recommendations, which basically these are, did you look back 3 at -- I know you looked at a number of different things, you 4 said, on a lot of salary -- the COLA, but on these, did you 5 look back at the last time people got raises, and -- I mean, 6 'cause we kind of -- we were doing a bunch of realigning three 7 or four years ago, and then we got -- hit some budget 8 difficulties and we didn't finish that process. 9 MS. HYDE: That's why the -- it goes back to 2000, 10 the new sheet. And the sheets that you guys got each week, 11 that I updated, it goes all the way back to 2000, and it shows 12 the increases or decreases. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And in your calculations, 14 on the constables, do you take into account that they're given 15 cars? 16 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That they are given cars. 18 MS. HYDE: No, sir, I didn't do that, because I 19 didn't figure it into any of the law enforcement either. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, law enforcement's a little 21 bit different. But they're the only elected officials that 22 receive -- that get cars and get their fuel paid for, whereas 23 everyone else pays for it out of their pocket. 24 MS. HYDE: It's not figured in. I did not figure it 25 in. 9-4-07 bwk 21 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any further announcements 2 about any positions? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The constable's office. If 4 anybody wants to be a constable, get it in quick. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We ready to move on to another issue? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Satisfied with this one? 8 Finished with this one? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, I want to 10 bring up one that I think is too high. Nobody spoke, so I'll 11 go the other direction. The -- the Environmental Health and 12 Animal Control are going to stay where they are; I think 13 Maintenance needs to go up. I think Maintenance is a bigger 14 department than those other departments, so, obviously, my 15 last recommendation of reducing one of those didn't go 16 anywhere, so I think that Maintenance should be paid higher. 17 I think Maintenance is a bigger department than Animal 18 Control, and I think should be paid more. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Maintenance versus 20 Animal Control, or -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or out of the three, if you look 22 at -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the third one? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Environmental Health. But if 25 you look at also -- historically, we were up to 44,000 in 9-4-07 bwk 22 1 Maintenance a couple years ago, and now it's down. And I 2 don't know that it should go back up that high, but looking 3 back historically -- 4 MS. HYDE: But the historical, Commissioner, was 5 based upon that person that was in that position received 6 extra for looking over Animal Control, looking over 7 Maintenance, looking over Environmental Health, so that's why 8 y'all had put it up a little bit higher. It wasn't just 9 Maintenance. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. Originally, 11 the former occupant of that job had -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Animal Control in it 14 underneath him. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you what, Animal 16 Control deals with the public, and Maintenance really doesn't 17 that much. 18 MS. HYDE: They've got as many people as -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Big job that you don't see a 20 lot of times. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm talking about raising 22 Maintenance. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I talked to him Tim about it 24 the other day, and he agrees that his job was funded back 25 under this schedule. 9-4-07 bwk 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Better than it is, but I 2 just think that -- I mean, I think that that's a pretty 3 critical job to us. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is. They're all critical. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think to have some kind of 6 parity, it's lower than it should be. I mean, I think that if 7 you look at -- I think that department deals with the public 8 quite a bit, as well as all the elected officials and county 9 employees. And -- and they're directly responsible for, you 10 know, our physical plant and the maintenance of it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would be amenable to 12 taking that up about 37,5, create some -- create some gap 13 there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Think that's a good number? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have something else 17 in mind? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 19 MS. HARGIS: Is that a consensus? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 37,5. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While we're on this topic, I 22 really want to bring up something that I've been thinking 23 about for some time, and we've talked about it in the past, 24 but we haven't done anything about it. And if we approach 25 salaries top to bottom, the way we're looking at them today, 9-4-07 bwk 24 1 in my mind, that's okay. That's not -- that's not being 2 arbitrary or unfair in terms of the process. But I really 3 believe that there's another way that we should be looking at 4 elected officials, without having to evaluate one versus 5 another, good, bad or indifferent. I'm only talking about 6 process; not talking about people. I'm not talking about the 7 kind of job they do. I'm assuming that all elected officials 8 do their job to the best of their ability, serve the public, 9 and don't have to back up for their paycheck. 10 What I'm talking about in terms of future 11 consideration is a -- a policy or a program that recognizes 12 elected officials for their length of service. And I really 13 think it's time that we really consider that -- should 14 consider that. We have people in our elected family who are 15 -- who have served us well for many, many, many years; some 16 who are just joining the elected family, and I think it's high 17 time that we consider a policy that recognizes that and 18 rewards them for that length of service. They've been good 19 public servants, and -- and one way we show that is through a 20 policy for taking care of length of service. We do the same 21 thing for our workforce. Everybody in our workforce except 22 elected officials is rewarded or compensated by steps in 23 grade; that rewards you for your length of service. We don't 24 do that for elected officials, and I think it's time we 25 consider that. A long time ago, or shortly after last year's 9-4-07 bwk 25 1 budget discussion, I asked Ms. Hyde to come up with a policy 2 and draft some sort of a policy that would do that. Are you 3 prepared to talk about that, Ms. Hyde? 4 MS. HYDE: We can -- we can talk about it again, 5 Commissioner. What I had put up and discussed before was a 6 length of service year award system for department heads. And 7 the reason why is that, currently, only the non-department 8 heads receive a length of service increase. So, we talked 9 about between $200 and $250 per service year, and that way 10 it's payable on the 30th or 31st of September, at the end of 11 the budget year. That way, if there's some sort of major 12 catastrophe and we're short on funds, that would not be given 13 out. But other than that, the first year would be the biggest 14 risk, per se, unless we get it through the budget year. And 15 then, going forward, it would be budgeted. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much per year? 17 MS. HYDE: $250. $250 per year. If you did $250 18 per year for the department heads, and everyone has one year, 19 you're talking $5,750. Of course, that's not the case. Some 20 people have more than others. There was a max on that of 21 $3,500, regardless of the number of years. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's using the term 23 "department head." 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As opposed to "elected 25 official"? 9-4-07 bwk 26 1 MS. HYDE: Meaning you don't have them for 2 non-elected officials. You don't have them for the department 3 heads. They don't get a length of service. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A department head that is in 5 the step and grade schedule? They certainly do. 6 MS. HYDE: No, not all the department heads in the 7 past have gotten a longevity or a length of service. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there any department 9 heads who are outside the step and grade schedule? 10 MS. HYDE: Not all of them have gotten one. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 12 MS. HYDE: Not all of them got one, not since 2001. 13 We've gone back and checked it multiple times. Not everyone 14 that was not an elected official did not get one. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be by an action 16 of this Court, or by an oversight? 17 MS. HYDE: Not that I can find. I think it was 18 oversight. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oversight, not by an action 20 of the Court. That's a different ball game. That -- that 21 should be corrected, because all employees who are hourly 22 rated within the step and grade schedule should be rewarded 23 each year. 24 MS. HYDE: But you keep saying hourly rated, so that 25 might be where some of the discussion or the misunderstanding 9-4-07 bwk 27 1 was. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to distinguish 3 between department heads and elected officials. I want to 4 create a policy for elected officials. If we have some gaps 5 in the policy for department heads who are within the step and 6 grade schedule, we ought to correct that deficiency. What I'm 7 talking about is creating a policy for elected officials. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two that we haven't talked about 9 are our court reporter and our administrative assistant. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct, we have not. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you looking at me, or are 12 you looking at -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just looking -- I mean, 14 the -- we just -- you know, just haven't made any decision on 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, is the court reporter 17 in the step and grade schedule or is it outside of the step 18 and grade? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's outside. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who would know? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think outside. 22 MS. HYDE: Court reporter is outside the -- outside. 23 And -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Administrative is inside? 25 MS. HYDE: -- the Commissioners Court Coordinator is 9-4-07 bwk 28 1 inside. She's outside, but it would be fixed this year to go 2 back into a step and grade. I'm -- are you talking about 3 Jody? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Well, talking about 5 Jody and the court reporter. 6 MS. HYDE: Court reporter is completely outside the 7 step and grade. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MS. HYDE: But Jody is within $50, $60 of being 10 within the step and grade. We were going to fix that this 11 year so that that position stays within a set -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the court reporter 13 should be on this master list -- 14 MS. HYDE: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- that was given to us by 16 Ms. Hargis. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not -- I mean, it's not 18 a department head, but otherwise, that -- that slot's going to 19 get lost. That needs to be kept track of at the same time. 20 MS. HARGIS: Eva, correct me if I'm wrong -- 21 MS. HYDE: It's in the position schedule, so it 22 would have been kept into -- you would have figured that. 23 Right? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I -- she's in the position 25 schedule. She's just not on this list. Now, the department 9-4-07 bwk 29 1 heads, if I'm reading what she's saying correctly, department 2 heads are what you call exempt; they're not paid hourly. So, 3 therefore, they are exempt from your longevity raises, so -- 4 MS. HARDIN: In the past they've been paid the 5 longevity. 6 MS. HARGIS: She said not all of them. So, maybe we 7 need to -- 8 MS. HYDE: The terminology probably needs to be 9 changed. We can change that within an order. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to be uniform in our 11 approach. 12 MS. HARGIS: I wanted to get that clarified, 'cause 13 I didn't understand either. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on the -- our administrative 15 assistant, we've just added one other job to her, which the 16 County's being paid additional to do, which is the Region J 17 administrator, which the County's being paid $250 a month to 18 do that. And she's about to probably get another job 1st of 19 October for -- based on my conversations with Commissioner 20 Oehler. I can't remember what her salary is right now, but -- 21 or what it is on the step and grade, but we need to look at 22 that, with that -- adding that additional work. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She needs to be brought up. 24 MS. HYDE: We would show that in payroll as 25 additional line items. And that we -- we can still keep it 9-4-07 bwk 30 1 within the step and grade, make sure that we know what's -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It needs to be in the step and 3 grade. We just need to look at that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you refined the numbers 5 of what -- what the total package would cost, Ms. Hyde? Based 6 on the length of service of all elected officials, top to 7 bottom? What the budgetary impact is? 8 MS. HYDE: Jeannie, what's 250 times 7? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 250 times 7? 10 MS. HYDE: 250 times 7. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1,750. 12 MS. HARGIS: That's using -- 13 MS. HYDE: About $4,000. That would be on one year; 14 that's just figuring them on one year, so I don't know how 15 many years everybody has at this point. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- okay, so we can't 17 assess today what the total impact for all elected officials 18 would be based on their aggregate length of service? Okay. I 19 think it would be nice to be able to look at that, but look at 20 it on several different iterations; 250, 200, 150. 21 JUDGE RAGSDALE: 250 is nice. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 150, 200, 250. Someone out 23 there would suggest 500, but that's -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, is this length of service 25 as an elected official, or length of service in the county? 9-4-07 bwk 31 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As an elected official. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, darn. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sorry about that, Rusty. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, well. It's still quite a 5 bit. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For all the years that you 7 were not, you got it in the step and grade. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We never had such a thing 9 before I was... 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you want to broaden it, 11 that's different, but my thought was as an elected official. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. I mean, I'm -- it 13 seems that we're spending an awful lot. We've had tight years 14 too, so we're a little bit better off. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, by Ms. Hyde's 16 proposal, you know, hers is geared to -- her suggestion is 17 geared to what's available at the end of the budget year. You 18 can look at it that way. You can look at it as a sure thing 19 and do it on October 1. You could do it in time for Christmas 20 on December -- any number of ways you can do it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be more inclined to do it -- 22 I mean, if you're going to do something like that, you do it. 23 I mean, you don't kind of do it as a "what-if" thing. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 25 Commissioner. 9-4-07 bwk 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd probably -- if you're going 2 to do it, I also -- I'd do it more like $100 a year or 3 something. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a start. 5 MS. UECKER: You just want to wait till I leave; 6 then you're going to do it, just that fast. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're still going to get more 8 than anybody else. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to break the 10 bank no matter what. 11 MS. UECKER: You don't think I've earned it? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want us to answer that 13 question? 14 MS. UECKER: No. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we talk privately? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. County Attorney, if we do the 17 "maybe, kind of, sort of" at the end of the year, that smacks 18 to me of a bonus, and I think generally we're prohibited from 19 doing that. 20 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nevermind. 22 MS. HYDE: We did it at the end of the year, because 23 if someone retires, resigns, separates, quits, the thought 24 process was that they forfeit that year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My thought is it would be 9-4-07 bwk 33 1 more appropriate if it was done before the end of each 2 calendar year, and becomes a budgetary line item. 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: A raise or some -- 4 JUDGE WRIGHT: Longevity. 5 JUDGE RAGSDALE: It triggers on a date. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still think the dead turkey 7 at retirement's enough. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With or without a watch? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No watch. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a dead turkey. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dead turkey. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dead turkey. 13 MS. HARGIS: So, do we want to figure that into this 14 budget? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we need to know what 16 the budgetary impact would at 100, 200, 250, whatever. 17 There's a suggestion to start at 100. You can start it 18 anywhere, just so it starts. 19 MS. HARGIS: We have to publish all these salaries. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 21 MS. HARGIS: I have to publish these, so I need to 22 -- before we do the budget hearing on the 10th. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what are we talking about 24 here? Where'd y'all land, 100 bucks? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, it's -- 9-4-07 bwk 34 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $100 for what? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Each year of service as an 3 elected official. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so Linda's, we'll have to 5 hire a truck to haul hers in here. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bags of money. 7 MS. UECKER: No, they put a limit on it. She's 8 recommending a limit. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Up to 25 years? What are 10 you talking about? 11 MS. HYDE: We figured a limit at $3,500 max on 250, 12 which means it would have to come down to -- whatever you come 13 down to, it would come down, 'cause it was figured at 25 years 14 was the max. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would you put a limit on it? 16 MS. HYDE: I just was trying to do what people had 17 asked me to do. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just -- I didn't ask you to 19 do it to start with, so -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't recall asking you to 21 do it -- put a limit on it. 22 MS. HYDE: Multiple people have requested this, so I 23 listened to lots of folks and lots of ideas. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way it is, at 25 least five sets of ideas, five votes. 9-4-07 bwk 35 1 MS. HYDE: At least. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What you're saying is if we 3 did $100, and say Linda's got 20 years, she'd get 2,000 bucks 4 a year. And next year she'd get 2,100. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way it would 6 work. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She'd get that same increase. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you build that into the 9 salary; it's not a difference at the end of the year. 10 MS. HARGIS: I suggest you do it with the salary 11 year instead of at the end of the year. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, are we calling that a 13 salary increase? What -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Based on longevity. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And one of the things is -- this 16 is just a caution, because this Court has a tendency to forget 17 things in five or ten years. We're setting up a system where 18 every constable in all likelihood will get a different salary; 19 every commissioner will get a different salary. You know, the 20 parity that we've established, everyone's going to be 21 different. In five years, people are going to say, "Well, we 22 need to equalize this." 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then everyone's going to go up. 25 That's just the way we work. Just so you're aware. 9-4-07 bwk 36 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does have it to be -- 2 Mr. County Attorney, does it have to be -- does it have to be 3 built into the salary, or can it be a separate line item based 4 on length of service? 5 MR. EMERSON: I would suspect you can -- you 6 could -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To protect the base salary. 8 Which is the point, Commissioner. 9 MR. EMERSON: I think you can probably have a 10 separate line item, but it's going to have to be very, very 11 clear that it's not tied to production or anything else. 12 Strictly longevity. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be just like we used to 14 do a travel allowance for every elected official. We rolled 15 that into salary at one point. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I'd prefer it be 17 separate and based on length of service. You're 18 distinguishing it. The base salary should be what it is, and 19 the Court adjusts that from time to time. Length of service 20 should be that, separate and apart. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. If we're 23 going to do it, I think that's the best approach by far. 24 MS. UECKER: Navarro County does it that way. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who does? 9-4-07 bwk 37 1 MS. UECKER: Navarro County. 2 MS. HYDE: There's several counties that do a length 3 of service. Now, I'm going to have to buy Kevlar. I do 4 believe, based on what I've been hearing, that if you don't 5 run and you come back after a gap, that gap starts you back 6 over. They don't -- no one does it where you get to add back. 7 MS. UECKER: No vested -- 8 MS. HYDE: Yeah. I mean, it's each type of length 9 of service. So, if you've been in and then out, then in, it 10 doesn't count. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Length of continuous service. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- this is just to toss 15 out another idea. Does it make more sense to do it by year or 16 by term? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By year. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it -- with that, I think -- 20 I mean, wherever we end up, I'd rather go with less dollars 21 per year and not have a cap on the number of years. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do believe that we leave the 24 base salary what it is. We adjust that, but that way when 25 somebody comes into office, new elected official, they start 9-4-07 bwk 38 1 out at the base just like everybody else, wherever that level 2 is at the time. They only increase annually based on 3 longevity. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Mitchell's a good 5 example. Year one, 100 bucks, whatever the number is. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, do we need to tell the 8 Auditor what we want to do and move on? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we do. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a good plan, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought so too. I'm hung 12 up on the Commissioners Court secretary and the court 13 reporter. I can't find the court reporter. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in the County Court budget. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County Court? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There it is. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure is. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it, Buster? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just -- right behind -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the number? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's behind the County -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, we're dealing with two 24 different things. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. 9-4-07 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The amount -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 10-426-110. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 53,453. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is Jody? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody is 32,597. 6 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's all under the County 8 Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. Oh, that makes more 10 sense. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That first tab there. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You mean you're the top of the 13 heap there. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he thinks he is. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With respect to the court -- 16 the administrative assistant, does anybody remember what we 17 were compensating for booking, for the former booking -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 200 -- isn't it 200? Eva? 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I believe it's 200 a 21 month, wasn't it? That we were -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $100 a pay period. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, something like that. 25 MS. HARGIS: Pay period? Or -- or a month? 9-4-07 bwk 40 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No, a month, I think, wasn't it? 2 MS. HARGIS: 200 a month sounds more reasonable. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see 30 on here 4 anywhere. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're giving her two new jobs. 6 One of them, we're getting revenue from an outside source. 7 It's going into the general fund. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say somewhere -- for our 9 administrative assistant, the new workload that we're adding, 10 somewhere around -- in the step and grade, around 33, 34, 11 33,5, somewhere in that range. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It looks like on this 13 sheet -- is this sheet calculated at about 3.6? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 34. 34. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 3.5 or 3.6 on this sheet? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 3.5. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 3.5. 18 MS. HYDE: 3.5. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then we need to add a couple 20 at that same -- 21 MS. HARGIS: All right, now -- 22 MS. HYDE: Who are you saying needs to be added? 23 'Cause in the position schedule, they're already added. 24 Ms. Hargis already did it in the position schedule. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the two people we're 9-4-07 bwk 41 1 talking about have not had consideration. One is the court 2 reporter. 3 MS. HYDE: She's in the position schedule, and she 4 shows it -- Ms. Hargis put her in there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not seeing it here. 6 MS. HYDE: No, it's not in here. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The administrative assistant 8 to the court. 9 MS. HYDE: She's also in the position schedule, and 10 it also shows an increase for her. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Does that include the 12 compensation we would give her for handling the booking -- 13 MS. HYDE: No. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- function? 15 MS. HYDE: No, it does not. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or the Region J? 17 MS. HYDE: No. Those would be supplemental, so that 18 she says within the position schedule. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 MS. HYDE: So that she stays within the step and 21 grade. Her position is a step and grade position. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me Region 23 J -- doesn't that pay -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They pay us. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- the County gets $250 a 9-4-07 bwk 42 1 month. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is just a pass-through. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- I mean, it's 5 coming into our general fund. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We rake off a little? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We should. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't surprise me. 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hargis needs some 11 direction, right? 12 MS. HARGIS: Uh-huh. I'm waiting. First of all, I 13 need what you want to pay the elected officials. 100, 150, 14 200 a year? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say 50 or 100. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My thought is you start at 17 -- start the program at 100. And you have no -- no cap on 18 years, whatever it is. If we have to hire a truck for 19 Ms. Uecker to get hers in here, we have to hire a truck. 20 MS. HARGIS: Well, that -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Poor Sheriff. 22 MS. HYDE: She's been here, what, 37 years? 39? 23 MS. UECKER: 39 total, but elected, 20. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that cut the -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: She had to run three times before she 9-4-07 bwk 43 1 got elected. (Laughter.) 2 MS. HARGIS: That wasn't nice. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what she expects from me. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Twenty? Well, that reduces 5 our nut considerably. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Longest elected official in the 7 county. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty much for quite a bit. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going for a record. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going for a record? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be kind of tough to 14 catch Julius Neunhoffer in number of years. 15 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 24 or 28. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 24. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's at 24, right. 19 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I'll be catching him, probably. 20 Unless I die between now and the end of my term. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She's going to catch Judge 22 Neunhoffer and pass him up. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Victor was in there quite a 24 while. Probably about 20, I would guess. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe 20. 9-4-07 bwk 44 1 MS. HARGIS: Okay, we need a little bit more 2 clarification. 3 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 4 MS. HARGIS: The county officials will receive $100 5 per year for each year they've served as an elected official; 6 is that correct? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- 8 MS. HARGIS: Per year? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we're talking 10 about. 11 MS. HARGIS: With no cap? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Payable before the end of 13 the fiscal year. Like, in December. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Calendar year, you mean? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sorry, calendar year. Like, 16 in the first check in December. 17 JUDGE RAGSDALE: So, it's the amount of time as of 18 December 31st? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 20 JUDGE RAGSDALE: So, it would be the amount of years 21 -- see, like, I'm in my 17th year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess you'd be calculated on 23 the close of the previous calendar year, payable in December 24 of whatever the year is. Next year, you catch that next year. 25 MS. HYDE: If you're going to pay them on 9-4-07 bwk 45 1 December 1, I would think you'd -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever. 3 MS. HYDE: -- go ahead and pay for that year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could. 5 JUDGE RAGSDALE: The year's about up. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't want to cheat you. 7 JUDGE RAGSDALE: No, you don't. 8 MS. HYDE: You want to figure it by when? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 10 MS. HYDE: So, you want to figure it payable as of 11 what date? Would it be for that calendar year? What that 12 calendar year would be? Or what the next calendar year would 13 be? 14 MS. HARGIS: No, what that calendar year would be. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you and Ms. Hargis 16 work out the details, so we can move on? 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So, everybody's in agreement 18 with this chart? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County Attorney's still in 20 here. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's talking. 22 MS. HARGIS: He's been -- he's in here, but he's 23 been reduced down to only what you pay him. So, do you 24 want -- he's not listening. Rex? 25 MR. EMERSON: Sorry. 9-4-07 bwk 46 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's okay. We just cut you 2 in half. 3 MS. HARGIS: They were trying to jerk your chain, I 4 think, but you weren't listening. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis? 6 MS. HARGIS: Yes? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: To that list that you're looking at, 8 show the court reporter as 3.5 increase, and 3.5 COLA. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, on the court administrator, is 11 the preference to handle that as a separate one because of 12 these additional outside duties that are coming in? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what Ms. Hyde's 14 preference is. That's fine. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's a good thing, 16 because it might be at some point that those duties might be 17 turned over to somebody else. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way you'd still have your 20 salary established. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good thought. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're looking at four to five, 23 somewhere in that range. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $4,000 supplement for those two 25 jobs. 9-4-07 bwk 47 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about the court administrator 3 on the supplement line item? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah -- yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: For essentially outside duties. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Dealing with Region J, and -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and booking. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. I agree with that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And the number that was suggested was 12 four. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think four. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You like four, but -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I'm not going to vote 16 here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The County Attorney's still 19 in here. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But he's listening to -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Four. 22 MS. HYDE: Want to keep that in the position 23 schedule in the step and grade? Or -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Supplement. 9-4-07 bwk 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Supplement. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Outside. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Outside supplement, or 4 supplement of some sort. 5 MS. HYDE: But the actual position would stay within 6 the position schedule. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 8 MS. HYDE: So, that would allow us to put her at the 9 -- at the appropriate level. She's off about 50 bucks. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Put her -- get her to 11 where it fits there. 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then add a supplement for those 14 outside duties. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: J.P. 4 has a comment. 16 JUDGE RAGSDALE: On this proposal, something that 17 you might consider closing up now, rather than dealing with it 18 later, is you -- you have several people now, and over the 19 course of time, who have been appointed to office. If you're 20 going to -- you might clarify and say it's for each calendar 21 year in the position -- in the elected official position. 22 'Cause he got appointed in April. Didn't you, Rusty? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Something like that, yeah. 24 JUDGE RAGSDALE: He -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that was an election; I 9-4-07 bwk 49 1 just took office early. But you take -- now, there have been 2 some -- 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: David Billeiter, you know. Of 4 course, I know he's going from one office to the other, but he 5 just got appointed to an office. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He was appointed to an elected 7 official position, I guess, is what he -- 8 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Do you understand what I'm saying? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the question? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's when you start -- 11 JUDGE RAGSDALE: The question is, where do you start 12 it? So -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they get the supplement the 14 year they get appointed into it, or do they have to wait until 15 the first full year in office? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: First time they run. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say first full year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, service. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure, because it's for 20 length of service. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, service. 22 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, that's why I was saying you 23 might as well address it in how you write it; address it now 24 rather than later. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First full year of service, and 9-4-07 bwk 50 1 part of a year doesn't count. 2 MS. HARGIS: So, if you're appointed or elected, if 3 you serve a year in that position, you get -- 4 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Right. Thank you. 5 MS. HARGIS: All right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we ready to move on to 8 something else, Buster? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did we do -- how did we 10 do with the Commissioners Court secretary? Did we do it? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we just did it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: Yes, I'd like to readdress our 15 salaries and remind you that we are going to be collecting $2 16 for each traffic ticket that we collect to help pay for an 17 offset for the increase in our duties. You have all of that 18 information with you. 19 JUDGE RAGSDALE: In my office alone, that would be 20 -- it's not like I'm asking for $5,000, but that would be 21 about a $5,000 fee collection, just in my office, which would 22 certainly pay for a little help in my salary. And we need it. 23 I address this every year. We not necessarily are a totally 24 unique position, but we are in a position a little different 25 than some in that we're having to use our vehicles in our 9-4-07 bwk 51 1 work. Gas has just gone out through the roof. I know it's 2 gone down a few cents in the last couple weeks, but by and 3 large, it -- we still pay for our fuel and our vehicle use, 4 and -- and we are working day and night too sometimes. I 5 mean, you went out on a call of mine there just -- you know, 6 that happens routinely, and -- and we need some help. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not suggesting that because of 8 the increased fee, that consideration be given to a percentage 9 or a portion of those fees, are you? 10 JUDGE RAGSDALE: No, but what I am suggesting is 11 that the legislative intent in -- in instituting this fee was 12 to help supplement our salaries, 'cause we have increased 13 statutory duties, and that was their intent, was to help out 14 with an increase by collecting a fee. It's just like the 15 courthouse security and the other fees. That's their intent, 16 is that you would use that money for us. We've been 17 collecting the judicial supplement for District Judges for, 18 what, two years? It was their intent that that would help pay 19 for District Judges' increases. Now they've decided that they 20 would help pay for justices of the peace to get an increase in 21 pay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, as I stated last week, I 23 mean -- 24 JUDGE WRIGHT: We brought all this to you in 25 writing. 9-4-07 bwk 52 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 2 JUDGE WRIGHT: You've got the -- and all of the 3 increases in our duties, you've got all of that too. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, as I said last week, I 5 mean, I think J.P.'s are one of the ones that I'm more 6 inclined -- I was more inclined to not raising others and 7 giving them their increase. So, it appears we're giving 8 everyone increases. I don't have a problem with giving a 9 little bit higher of an increase because of that increased 10 workload. But -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you suggesting? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, Judge. If 13 -- if that's the case, that their intent was to collect that 14 money as a -- to help the J.P.'s, then that's what we need to 15 do. 16 JUDGE WRIGHT: You've got the letter saying that's 17 what the intent was. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we've got your letter, 19 okay? 20 JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We understand about the 22 letter. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you suggesting, 24 Commissioner? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let's talk about it a 9-4-07 bwk 53 1 minute. I mean, let's don't just pull a number out of the 2 air. Let's -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are we going to get it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Based on these fees -- this 5 fee issue, possibly. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we got to stay away from that, 7 I think. Mapp vs. Ohio? Isn't that the case? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I heard you ask that 9 question; I knew you asked it for a reason. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- but what I'm hearing 12 out there, though, that's the reason the fees were set up. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm hearing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think Mapp v. Ohio has been 16 overruled. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe -- maybe what 18 the legislative intent was is that that fee is an offset to 19 help a county pay for a justice of the peace. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that the same thing? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not necessarily. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Not quite. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not necessarily funding a 24 $5,000 increase based on projected additional revenue. 25 JUDGE RAGSDALE: It was not based on -- oh, the 9-4-07 bwk 54 1 revenue of the fee, do you mean? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that what you're 3 talking about? 4 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, I don't know that -- I'm not 5 sure what you meant. We're -- what we're going to be doing 6 is, we're increasing, as you know, the jurisdictional limit of 7 the J.P. courts, and that can be between, I think -- what was 8 it? The six-month period of time that you looked at was 60 9 cases that had been filed? 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. 11 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Had been filed in the County Court 12 at Law. That would now probably -- doesn't have to be, but 13 probably be filed in J.P. courts. Civil -- civil trials in 14 our court are very, very time-consuming and tedious, because 15 it's a little different than other courts. We -- we have to 16 prepare everything and process everything. So, anyway, 17 they're anticipating an increase in that workload there, and 18 that was a way that they felt like they could compensate 19 without putting a burden on the counties for the additional 20 work that we're doing. I'm not proposing that -- I mean, I'm 21 not proposing a $5,000 increase in my salary. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think you were. I 23 just thought I'd seek some clarification. 24 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I wouldn't complain. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think my Judge is sort of 9-4-07 bwk 55 1 nodding yes. What did you have in mind? Do you have a number 2 in mind? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they're working on 4 one. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I had a -- and make it a 7. 6 Instead of the 3 and a half percent increase that was, I 7 think, figured in here, make it 7 percent. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say that again? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's about $900. Their increase 10 would go from, instead of the 1,403, to 2,319, if I did my 11 math right. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, they're going to get -- 13 this is a 3.5 and this is a 3.5. You put the two together, 14 right? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But they're getting -- 16 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 17 MS. HARGIS: 7 percent total? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 7 percent before the COLA. 19 MS. HARGIS: Not the COLA, but the increase. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got 7. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our math is coming out 22 different. He's got a better calculator. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would get them 41362, 24 -363. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I get. 9-4-07 bwk 56 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before the COLA. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's what I get. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How about 6 percent? 4 MS. HARGIS: Fifty is what you have in here, and 5 then the COLA -- 6 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right. That's the 8 number I had. I did a 6 percent increase before the COLA. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that what you're suggesting, a 6? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before the COLA. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: His number, then, crank that with 6, 12 not 7 percent. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be 42,765 total. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before the COLA? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the COLA. Before the 16 COLA, it would be 41,362. 7 percent? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either one of those, either 6 or 18 7. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3.5 COLA? Is that the 20 number? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: COLA stays there. I'd say 22 either a 6 percent increase or a 7 percent increase before the 23 COLA. So their numbers -- 24 MS. PIEPER: Would it help if Linda and I brought 25 all of our increased duties? 9-4-07 bwk 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you look at it that way, 2 theirs was a little bit different than everybody else. I 3 think every elected official gets increased duties every year, 4 just about, and I think -- but the J.P.'s work, with the 5 legislative -- they're restructuring the court system 6 statewide. 7 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the 413.65 plus 3.5? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was thinking of 6 percent 10 before the COLA. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that what you got, 6? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just sitting here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: How about 2? 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else do you need, 17 Ms. Hargis? Let's go to capital items, shall we? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's do. 19 MS. HARGIS: As long as you're handing it out, you 20 took it away from me, but I can always ask again, can't I? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? 22 MS. HARGIS: Nothing. Okay. All right. I've given 23 you two columns, and I didn't have much time to put this 24 together, and we did this on -- on Friday morning, and I 25 wasn't here all day Friday and I was working on the salary 9-4-07 bwk 58 1 part of it, but John and I went over the I.T. this morning, 2 and the I.T. amounts for every department all added up, 3 software -- additional software and everything that we need is 4 471,000. The windows -- the windows -- 5 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 6 MS. HARGIS: The windows, we put 180 in the budget. 7 But if you multiply 3,300 times 77 windows, it's actually 8 254,000. So, that's the high side of what the windows would 9 cost, but if we went into a bond issue, we want the high side, 10 not the low side. The arena, we have 150. You discussed 11 several different amounts. I put 250 in there; it could be 12 300. We decided that, again, all we really need to do is pull 13 these out, saying we're putting them in long-term debt, and 14 then we can define them and then define the debt, because 15 we're not budgeting for payment this year; we're going to push 16 it out a year. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we'll finalize all these 18 numbers during the year, is what you're saying? 19 MS. HARGIS: Right. What I would suggest -- well, 20 we need to get bonds and pay back the funds, or however you 21 want to do it, but I think you propose the design of the 22 arena. I would like to see that done first. I think you 23 would too, and then decide what areas you feel the County 24 should pay for that shouldn't be volunteer funds. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9-4-07 bwk 59 1 MS. HARGIS: And I just put the 250 because you kind 2 of threw that out the other day. There's miscellaneous 3 furniture. Most of this is the jury chairs, but there's 4 miscellaneous odds and ends that adds up to about $10,000. We 5 could leave that in or take it out; doesn't matter to me. And 6 then I -- I didn't get ahold of Road and Bridge, because I -- 7 so I still don't know what Flat Rock is going to be. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hardin, would you get 9 ahold of Mr. Odom and see if we can refine that number? That 10 75 that Ms. Hargis has put in seems to me to be about twice 11 the amount necessary. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I gave her that number. That's just 13 as a -- to get a response from it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A ballpark. 15 MS. HARDIN: For capital outlay or for computers? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For Flat Rock, the bridge 17 over Town -- Third Creek. 18 MS. HARDIN: He's on vacation; he started today. I 19 have a call in to the contractor that wants to do the work, 20 and I'll have a number this afternoon, but I don't have one 21 now. 22 MS. HARGIS: That would be fine. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's cut it down to at 24 least 50. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think take the furniture out. 9-4-07 bwk 60 1 I think that's a -- 2 MS. HARGIS: It's a minor item. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- minor item, and I think it's 4 a real bad public perception that we're buying furniture with 5 debt. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Now, I put the air conditioners 10 in on the side, just so you can, again, look at that item. 11 You did say you wanted to do that pay as you go. I do want 12 to -- Tommy reminded me that the units you have on this 13 building are 11 years old as well, so I really think we need 14 an air -- an air conditioning inventory on all of our 15 buildings, and the age, and a priority list done. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 17 MS. HARGIS: Before I can do this, 'cause it may 18 come up that we want to go ahead and include some of it. 19 That's kind of -- why I'm kind of putting it on the side. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I agree with that. 21 MS. HARGIS: But not just the jail. All of our 22 buildings. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that makes sense. 24 MS. HARGIS: So, we've already come up to the 25 million pretty easily, so -- but I wanted you to see the two 9-4-07 bwk 61 1 amounts, because the -- that means that we would be removing 2 actually what we have in the budget, so it's going to be about 3 800,000 -- rounded to 800,000 that we would remove from our 4 current budget, which would allow for the COLA and -- and the 5 raises, and then put half -- probably give us 400 to put back 6 in our reserve. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're looking at about a 8 million dollars in long-term debt? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's about where we 11 were the other day. 12 MS. HARGIS: It's really not cost-effective to sell 13 less than that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And we -- well, we'll 15 refine that once we get a couple of these numbers worked out a 16 little bit. Okay. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Just to make sure we clarify, on the 18 I.T., that's two years you calculated for, not just one? 19 MS. HARGIS: No, just one. 20 MR. TROLINGER: I did -- 21 MS. HARGIS: But it includes all of the 22 contingencies and all the software and all those other items 23 that we -- that you and I went over today. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. Now, two -- two of those 25 items, the County Clerk's and the District Clerk, are from 9-4-07 bwk 62 1 Records Preservation, those funds. Are those included? 2 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. Those cannot be included, 4 because those are self-funded from fees. 5 MS. UECKER: Dedicated funds. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Dedicated funds. 7 MS. HARGIS: So, that's about 150,000. But he -- 8 you had me add it in, so -- 'cause we decided to add in the 9 total package. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it's got -- and the J.P. 11 Technology Fund is also the same, self-funded. 12 MS. HARGIS: I didn't add in J.P. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the point is, though, 15 that if you're -- if we're going to do the debt, it would make 16 sense to know a part of -- a lot of the hardware costs are 17 going to increase for next year, and we're -- cause the debt's 18 not going to be issued. 19 MS. HARGIS: He and I talked about taking that next 20 year. It would be no less than 60,000; probably closer to, 21 you know, maybe 75, and we'd go ahead and include that in the 22 issue. Not purchase it. Again, these are all items we can 23 set aside in a reserve, and we wouldn't purchase them till 24 close of -- till the end of this year. That would save us 25 operating costs for next year. 9-4-07 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much money is in that I.T. 2 budget for these -- for Jannett and Linda? 3 MS. HARGIS: About 150. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much? 5 MS. HARGIS: 150. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 150. So you take, basically, 7 150 off the 471, right, but then you add back in software -- I 8 mean hardware for next year, so is that what you're saying? 9 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a hard time hearing, 11 you speak so softly. 12 MS. HARGIS: I'm sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm about half deaf, and so I 14 have to strain to try to hear what you're saying. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll let you borrow one of 16 my hearing aids. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I need to get some. I had 18 some; I traded them for a table saw. (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Which makes a lot of noise, doesn't 20 it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Made it even worse. 22 MS. HARGIS: It's real hard to refine that I.T. 23 number. We tried this morning, but that's the overall -- the 24 overall number. So, whatever the difference is between this 25 and what we currently have budgeted will be the -- put in 9-4-07 bwk 64 1 reserve, and then the remainder will go towards long-term. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What I'm hearing correctly 3 is the I.T. budget's going to come down a little bit for the 4 reasons cited by Mr. Trolinger. 5 MS. HARGIS: And then go back up again. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then go back up again? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. We'll reduce it -- 8 MR. TROLINGER: For year two. 9 MS. HARGIS: Year two. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: That should be getting pretty close to 12 getting our I.T. products up to where we're just rolling on an 13 annual basis, and that should -- I think -- John, is that 14 correct? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 16 MS. HARGIS: We're playing catty-catch-up. Once we 17 get everything there, then it's just the annual changes, and 18 it shouldn't be as expensive. Unless the new Windows version 19 which is coming out this year -- and that's a -- it's a 20 difficult product. I don't think we're quite ready for that 21 yet. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, where do you 23 suggest we go next? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I still have a question 25 about the longer term debt. I like the plan, but how do we -- 9-4-07 bwk 65 1 how do we get to that place? Do we -- what kind of -- what 2 kind of bonds are we talking about? 3 MS. HARGIS: Right now, I wouldn't be able to tell 4 you. I think we call your financial adviser in and get him to 5 give us the -- the paper that would best fit our needs. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it seems to me that 7 we're moving forward here with -- with the thinking that 8 there's no problems. We'll just do some bonds and go on down 9 the road, when in reality, that may not happen, is my -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about tax -- 11 probably tax anticipation notes, based on the fact that we 12 have some debt coming off next year? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm asking. Is 15 that what you're -- 16 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm not as familiar with the type 17 of paper that you can sell, so I -- I really hate to go out 18 and say what it is, 'cause I'm not sure. That's why I'd 19 rather call your financial adviser in. I would not -- I would 20 try to buy the paper that has the least amount of cost. In 21 other words, if we can purchase it locally, and if we can do 22 tax anticipation notes, whatever would be a cheaper cost to us 23 would be what I would recommend, 'cause these are not going to 24 be 20-year bonds. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 9-4-07 bwk 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't -- doesn't something 2 like that need to be done in a pretty big hurry? 3 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't think so. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm-mm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Not necessarily. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to spend the 7 money until we do it. Whereas if we don't go forward with 8 that, John's up the creek, 'cause there's no money -- I mean, 9 there's no money in our budget for any of the I.T. stuff, so 10 he can't go buy stuff until we do it. That's the real -- the 11 real rush, is I.T.'s needs, 'cause the -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what -- that's what 13 I'm saying. It seems like to me we need to get Bob Henderson 14 in here and tell us what the proper route -- proper paper to 15 deal with, and so that he can do these things. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think early -- you 17 know, as soon as we're finalized with the budget, yeah, we 18 need to get them down here. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. We need to get them 20 in here pretty quickly and identify what our options are. 21 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it won't take him long to give 22 you the options, and it probably won't take that long to get 23 the paper. I mean, we -- we did this at the City last year. 24 We voted for the bonds for the fire station, and -- in the 25 budget, and we sold it in December. It closed pretty much in 9-4-07 bwk 67 1 December and January. So -- and what you're trying to sell is 2 not a bond, so it'd probably be even faster. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 MS. HARGIS: You could probably get the paper within 5 60 days. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hargis, if -- with the I.T. 7 changes and that, if there's some additional -- I mean, and 8 you can -- by saying that we need to keep it around a million 9 dollar range, -- 10 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- another thing that we could 12 possibly do is, if you'd look at Road and Bridge's -- some of 13 their lease-purchase option deals that we have on some of our 14 equipment, it may make sense to prepay one or two of those and 15 buy them outright. You know, it'd probably be at a lower 16 interest rate, possibly, than we're paying right now on some 17 of those long five-year leases. I'm not sure. We only have 18 one left? If we only have one, there may not be any money 19 there. Truby said there's not much there. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an option we ought to 21 look at. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a way to -- you know, 23 we need to keep it around a million to make it cost-effective. 24 That's where you -- 25 MS. HARGIS: And, again, he may come back and say 9-4-07 bwk 68 1 that because we do a tax anticipation note, there's not that 2 much fees involved; we don't have to have a million. We 3 really need to get him in here, but I need an amount to give, 4 and I need you to approve to do it before I could call him. 5 So, if you're considering it, then I'll get him in. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to give her 7 permission to call him? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. She said she's going to 9 call him. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I've got to say about 12 that, Bruce, is I remember the time when I first came on the 13 Commissioners Court, we were working on the budget, and had 14 two gentlemen on the Court that were raised in the eastern 15 part of the United States -- and I'm being nice. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Road and Bridge was 18 wanting to purchase some cattle guards to replace cattle 19 guards, and these two guys could not understand why we had so 20 many employees out there guarding somebody else's cattle. 21 (Laughter.) This is a true story. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of them used to sit in 23 this spot. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and the other one right 25 there. And it was incredible. 9-4-07 bwk 69 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Amazing how you can buy 2 somebody for a lot more money than that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're stuck there. 4 MS. HARGIS: I think we have a couple of changes to 5 Road and Bridge's budget. I want her to bring those up, so we 6 can -- 7 MS. HARDIN: I think the only -- after John and I 8 talked, the only one we actually have is, we need to put a 9 line item in there for the software that y'all approved last 10 week in court. It was 1,750. 11 MR. TROLINGER: It was discussed in court. I don't 12 believe it was approved. So, that's -- 13 MS. HARDIN: No. 14 MR. TROLINGER: -- that's what we're talking about 15 now. We got to budget for October. 16 MS. HARGIS: I thought they approved it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we approved it. 18 MS. HARDIN: Because it has to be purchased 19 before -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we approved it. 21 We did. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the current budget year. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't make a court order 25 and -- but we all acknowledged it. 9-4-07 bwk 70 1 MS. HARGIS: We were going to pay for the first year 2 out of the current budget, but then every year after that it 3 will still be the same amount of money. Because it will be 4 due in September, before the end of the year. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So -- okay, we'll have to 6 budget. Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's 1,750. 8 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 9 MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The first year was going to 11 come out of this budget. The first one's going to come out of 12 this budget year. 13 MS. HARDIN: Right. It has to be purchased before 14 October 1, so yes, we have already got that line item. The 15 other -- and I wasn't sure on 15-600-461 for the lease copier. 16 We discussed it on the last court, and I'm not sure what 17 number you put in. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 18. 19 MS. HARDIN: Okay. John and I talked about it, and 20 if we go over for that amount, then we'll have to figure out 21 where we're going to pay for the copies. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It'll be close. I think the number 23 will be close because of the number of copies consideration 24 and whatnot. But, essentially, it's the same as it was on the 25 previous contract. Or is it a little bit more? 9-4-07 bwk 71 1 MS. HARDIN: It's more. 2 MR. TROLINGER: It's more. 3 MS. HARGIS: So, what do you need to go to? 4 MS. HARDIN: Oh, the line item -- 5 MS. HARGIS: What do you need? How much? 6 MS. HARDIN: 1,800 is what we discussed earlier. 7 MR. TROLINGER: I think with the copy overage, since 8 we're trying to be as conservative as possible with annual 9 costs, we need to look at a couple hundred dollars for going 10 over on copies. 11 MS. HARDIN: So, 2,000. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What else do you have for us, 13 Ms. Hargis? 14 MS. HARGIS: I don't have any other changes that -- 15 if y'all have any other changes you want me to make before I 16 do a -- you know, a pretty final draft. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a couple that I made 18 notations on while you were revising some figures, but I've -- 19 I've dog-eared my corners, and I can tell you. 20 MS. HARGIS: Okay. What I think I'll do is do a 21 little memo to y'all, and give you new schedules, let you 22 check them to make sure they're correct, before I plug them 23 in. Especially with the elected officials, so we know exactly 24 what that cost is. And -- and we'll do a one-time check on 25 that. Still will have to have FICA and Social Security. I 9-4-07 bwk 72 1 assume retirement would also be taken out of that; longevity 2 as well. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Since it's a salary component, 4 I think you've got to. Now, the other issue may be on the 5 salary supplement on the -- on the court coordinator, whether 6 or not that's handled differently, I don't know. I'm -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, in order to not get into the 8 situation that we have, I think we better pay the retirement 9 out of it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I was going to leave that to 11 you, okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, where are we in the 13 process now? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're in a meeting right now. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. But we 16 have some things left in the process. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: COLA. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I mean notifications, 20 hearings, et cetera, et cetera. Where are we? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Okay. There will be an 22 item on the agenda for Monday to consider and adopt -- "adopt" 23 is probably not the right term. Whatever the appropriate term 24 is, the proposed tax rate. Then, as Ms. Hargis said, there's 25 got to be notice published on the proposed salaries for 9-4-07 bwk 73 1 elected officials. We've got to do that, and that's going to 2 have to be published. Time frame on that, Ms. Hargis? 3 MS. HARGIS: I just received that on my desk. 4 Tommy, how -- how far in advance did you -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's 10 days prior to the 6 meeting where -- where -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Prior to the adoption of -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Prior to regular -- 10 days prior to 9 the regular meeting at which you propose the salaries -- or 10 approve the salaries. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Approve them. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, okay. It's too late for -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 14 MS. HARGIS: The 10th? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: -- for this one; it will have to be 16 10 days prior to the second regular meeting of the month. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 MS. HARGIS: And then you'll discuss the tax rate on 19 the 10th, and decide whether or not that is the rate that you 20 want to go with. And -- and then set -- we've already got the 21 two public hearings set, so I'm assuming that we're going to 22 go with the rate that we had. That was on the recommendation. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The overall rate will be the same. 24 The Road and Bridge will be downgraded by, what, five 25 ten-thousandths? 9-4-07 bwk 74 1 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And then that'll be added back to the 3 M & O rate. 4 MS. HARGIS: And that's pretty much it. If there's 5 any minor tweaking before, I'll try to point that out. If I 6 can -- you know, in the memo. But right now, I've been 7 through it all, so unless somebody else has a complaint, I did 8 e-mail all of the elected officials and department heads and 9 asked them to go online and look at their budgets, and some of 10 the them did contact me. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One question. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two questions. There's two 14 hands. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, at what point will we 16 see the proposed number and how much money we actually have? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully when Ms. Hargis does this 18 latest workup and plugs in what she's done here today, you'll 19 get a new -- what we call a budget summary, which tells you -- 20 you're looking -- what you're concerned about are reserve 21 ratios and things like that? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All those things. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Total expenditures. This will be a 24 new budget summary that she'll publish. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Prior to -- prior to salaries 9-4-07 bwk 75 1 being published, et cetera? 2 MS. HARGIS: No. I'll give you a new book that 3 includes everything that we said today as a proposal. This is 4 just as a proposal, so that you can look at it on the 10th. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With the number of how much 6 income the County's going to have as well? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could you change it from pink 9 to some other color? Okay, hang with pink. I can handle it. 10 MS. HARGIS: We may -- we may actually have to 11 borrow your book so we can use those tabs, because they were, 12 like, a four-hour -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want it back? Do you 14 want the books back? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that we need to 16 see how much -- how much income we're going to have and how 17 much the proposed budget's going to be before we get out in 18 the public and start saying, here's our salaries and here's 19 this and here's that. Because, who knows? I mean, I don't 20 know. We may have to change some things that we've decided 21 today. I don't know that. I know you don't like to hear 22 that. 23 MS. HARGIS: No. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's realities. 25 MS. HARGIS: No. That's why I said I was going to 9-4-07 bwk 76 1 prepare a memo to you and incorporate everything that you 2 asked me to do today. And I'll probably go through and take 3 out the budgetary changes, add in all the COLA and everything 4 else, so that you can look at what the total amount is. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but you -- I've heard 6 you say that two or three times, but you never have said, "I'm 7 going to show you the income as well." 8 MS. HARGIS: The income is in there. The income -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's already there? 10 MS. HARGIS: Pretty much in there. That's pretty 11 much a done deal. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: When we pick that tax rate, that's 14 what's plugged in. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: All except that 13,000, which I'll add. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that one-page summary sheet 18 is what you're asking for? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, mm-hmm. 20 MS. HARGIS: But I'll basically have to go through 21 it all to get you to that point. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And I believe I heard her say that 23 all of that was going to be available not later than next 24 Monday. Is that not what I heard you say? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, I will try to get it to you 9-4-07 bwk 77 1 before the meeting so that you have a chance to look at it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When does the salaries -- 3 when are the salaries published? 4 MS. HARGIS: Well, we need -- we'll need to get it 5 in the paper next week. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But nothing will be published 7 until after next Monday? Is that what I'm hearing? 8 MS. HARGIS: That's up to y'all. We just have to -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with Commissioner 10 Baldwin; I think we need to look at all these, mainly so when 11 our phones start ringing, we -- we're not saying, hey, you 12 know -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, maybe -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- what are y'all doing? You 15 know, I mean, I want to see a definite before it gets in any 16 papers. 17 MS. HARGIS: We won't put the newspaper ad in, then, 18 until -- we have 10 days, so we'd have to put it in, like, on 19 Tuesday after the meeting, no later than that Tuesday 20 afternoon. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you very 23 much. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want these books back, 9-4-07 bwk 78 1 Ms. Hargis, so you can just correct them? 2 MS. HARGIS: If you want the tabs again, I mean, 3 yeah. I'll give you the books back without the tabs so you'll 4 have them. We just need to borrow the tabs. If you don't 5 want it tabbed like that in the next go-round, I don't need 6 them back. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like them tabbed, but I have 8 enough old copies of the budget in my office, you can keep the 9 whole thing. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. If you'll just leave them on 11 Jody's desk -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That makes it easy for me. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here's my book. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't talked about the 15 money that we're supposed to pay the City for joint services. 16 Is that anywhere? I didn't see it in here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there. One -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We talked about it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Which number do you want to talk 21 about? I can tell you off the top of my head what it's 22 supposed to be. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Library, I guess, would be the 24 first one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 443, same as last year. 9-4-07 bwk 79 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought we were going around 2 400. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we were, too. I'm 4 glad you brought that up. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's that under, Judge? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will help take care of 8 some of the additional requests or demand for fire protection 9 contract. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's in at 175. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I know. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Airport is 188. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 188. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on -- it's under the other 16 -- something or other. Miscellaneous departments. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was looking at, 18 miscellaneous. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got that in at 443. If we're 20 going to make a change, let's plug it in now. Since you are 21 the library guru, we, of course, are looking to you, 22 Commissioner Oehler. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I tell you, it's real 24 hard to get those folks pinned down over there. You know, 25 there's always an excuse for this and an excuse for that. And 9-4-07 bwk 80 1 I ask questions about -- one of the questions at the last 2 meeting was how many certified librarians are -- are required 3 to operate a library of this size? And we have four certified 4 librarians over there. And I got beat up pretty badly over 5 even suggesting that we didn't have, you know, four certified 6 librarians. But if we have to have one, I think that's some 7 justification for not paying quite as much. And it seems to 8 me like that in everything that we do with the City, they just 9 tell us what it is that we're going to pay. There's no 10 negotiation. They don't want to negotiate; they just want to 11 tell us. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you know, we're not 14 mandated to pay, you know, 50 percent of the operational costs 15 of this library. We've agreed to do that for many years, and 16 have. Maybe -- maybe cutting it by 43,000 is a little severe, 17 but I think we did put them on notice of that in our first 18 meeting -- first joint meeting, and I think it was brought up 19 in the second joint meeting. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That it would be reduced. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That it could be reduced over 22 time. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My recollection is that we're 24 reducing it over time, and the City's recollection is that 25 we're holding it constant over time. 9-4-07 bwk 81 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall that we said we 3 would cut it in next budget year to 400. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 MS. HARGIS: Well, having attended that under the 6 other umbrella, that's exactly what you did say, and I 7 believe -- honestly, my recollection was you said 350 this 8 year. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To do what? 10 MS. HARGIS: Jonathan had mentioned that it would 11 come down to 350 this year. I think we -- we said four, then 12 350, and then three. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 MS. HARGIS: And then they would take it over. It 16 was the goal, I think, that you -- like, a five-year program, 17 as you suggested, but I don't know what y'all did this year. 18 I didn't know. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This year's, they kind of -- 20 they didn't hear the part about the reduced; they just heard 21 the constant. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it comes down to four? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'd say. I'll 25 take the abuse for it, being as I'm on the Library Board. 9-4-07 bwk 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You probably already have. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But also, we have a new 3 Library Board member over there that knows a lot about running 4 libraries, and -- the one we just appointed, and she has a lot 5 of questions. And I don't think that her questions have had 6 time to be answered yet, and we still have a little time 7 between now and the time we adopt this thing for some answers. 8 And she's probably better at asking those questions than I am. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this may trigger 10 some -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some answers. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- some answers. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, yeah, my suggestion is the 14 400. I think we need to start doing it, because -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- they just went up 50,000 on 17 us, you know, arbitrarily, tied it in one fire truck. And for 18 the kind of money we're paying them, I believe the County 19 could go out and build a -- a satellite station and equip it 20 and get volunteers to man the thing, and it would be a lot 21 cheaper than paying the City for one truck. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've talked about that in 23 the past, but we haven't gotten past the talk stage. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we need to get on the -- 25 and a key area is in Kerrville South. 9-4-07 bwk 83 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Key area is Kerrville South, 3 and Judge Tinley needs to take the lead here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it right next to his 6 house. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think, actually -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde's. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that would be very good. If 10 we're going to do something like this and we're going to issue 11 some debt, now's the time to pay for that, which is truly a 12 long-term debt issue to get that up and running and funded. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just don't think it's fair 14 for us to be giving our volunteer fire departments, you know, 15 this stuff, and they -- Kerrville is even getting covered at 16 times or assisted by -- by at least Ingram, and sometimes by 17 Center Point and, you know, whoever happens to be the closest, 18 but yet they don't count that worth anything. There may be 19 four or five trucks come out from volunteer departments, but 20 they only send one, and they want us to pay for the whole 21 thing. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing, too -- and I don't 23 know if this would -- I'm agreeing with your deal, is if the 24 City didn't take the County up on that offer of that land out 25 there, our building is very centrally located through the 9-4-07 bwk 84 1 county, 'cause you have 534, 27, and I-10 very handy. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cutting across 16. The County 4 owns the land; they can put a satellite station -- and I don't 5 know what it would do. Maybe the Judge and them -- but if you 6 add a satellite fire station right there by the jail, I wonder 7 what the jail's insurance premiums would go down with having 8 access to fire equipment that close. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a thought. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is good. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good point. I just think that 13 we need to really look at doing that, because I don't want to 14 get tied in with them and have to pay them up to 320-something 15 thousand over the next several years. That is -- that is 16 absurd. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not too late to crank 18 that whole issue into the capital planning we're talking 19 about. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I mean, I really -- I'm 21 serious about it. I mean, this is no bull. It's -- it's 22 just -- you know, I just can't see us doing that, and locking 23 ourselves into being tied to whatever they decide that we're 24 going to pay for. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly when they told 9-4-07 bwk 85 1 us that this year they cut it back, but next year and the year 2 after, it's going to continue to go up sky-high. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, last year; i.e., this year, for 5 this current year, they asked for 369,000, which is almost 6 triple what it had been. And they made no bones about that's 7 clearly the direction they're going. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin and I, I guess, 10 will go back to the well and take another swing at this and 11 see what other options we can come up with. We -- we thought 12 we had one identified, and it looked promising, but it didn't 13 pan out. But we'll go try again. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's something 15 that -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And this is directly focused on 17 Kerrville South, where that -- where the risk is -- is the 18 highest. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The highest. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where your highest -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, and the authority part 22 too. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're almost two separate 24 problems. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the point Rusty's making 9-4-07 bwk 86 1 with using the law enforcement property is, if you position 2 one there, you can go both directions in the same amount of 3 time. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The problem is, I think, 5 getting -- unless you have -- unless we have some of the 6 Sheriff's Department employees that want to man the trucks on 7 a volunteer basis, which would be fine. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You heard what he said, "so 9 we can have access to the equipment." 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I didn't say that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. They can be trained 12 and -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He wants to take a ride on a 14 fire truck. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did not say that, but you'd 16 probably have -- in fact, you have a number of my -- several 17 of my officers now that are volunteer firemen for Mountain 18 Home and Ingram and that. Just saying -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a great idea. 20 I think they can man the equipment; they'd be right on site. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, you're not going to find me 22 on a fire truck. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't say you; I said your 24 employees. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 9-4-07 bwk 87 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to take another -- we'll 2 take another run at that, and we've got another semi-option on 3 what we were looking at previously. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I've said my piece. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The long-term maintenance 6 contracts, if you do the long-term debt, the yearly 7 maintenance contracts that we have, are they going to be part 8 of that long-term debt and come out of our budgets? Or -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Your maintenance contracts? No, that 10 part still stays. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was just wondering how it was 12 going to be. 13 MS. HARGIS: Hardware -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And software. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Software and hardware? 16 MS. HARGIS: Purchase of new software, but not the 17 maintenance. I don't consider that a long-term debt. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ms. Hargis, which vehicles 19 have you included in the Sheriff's budget for the coming year? 20 MS. HARGIS: None. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I saw my -- which one of y'all 22 put the sign on my Expedition the other day? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It wasn't me. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oehler first said, "No, not 25 me." 9-4-07 bwk 88 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Which -- that is a good question. 2 Which -- which vehicles? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which package did you put in 4 the budget? 5 MS. HARGIS: I still have the same one. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which one is that? 7 MS. HARGIS: The -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Four Tahoes and one Crown. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the only actual bid that 10 I have on those. Now, I have five -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Four Crown and one -- one of 12 those Tahoe things. Actually, three Crowns and a Tahoe. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problem with the Crowns, 14 though, is what's he's experienced here in blowing out the 15 engines, the way those things are engineered. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, two of them just went 17 off in the low water and got new engines in them. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, they never ran off in the 19 water. The water was on paved road. Because of where the air 20 -- the intake is on those Crown Vic's, we lost two. D.P.S. 21 lost one. Kerrville P.D. lost one. It's where it sucks in -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Y'all ought to turn around and 23 not drown. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see that as a training issue. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think -- no, not with some of 9-4-07 bwk 89 1 the city drainage, but I won't get into that issue. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't want to. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I really think -- because these 4 are also -- there are some expenses you have to look at on 5 these. $5,300 of all these car costs is the cameras, now, 6 okay? They've gone up. There's that kind of stuff. I just 7 think we'll be a lot better off -- and the reason I went to 8 four Tahoes, that puts one on each shift, okay? Of the four 9 shifts working, it puts the sergeants in those to get to those 10 issues, and one Vic. We're a lot better off. I'll show you 11 the package. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I said my piece. Y'all go 13 ahead and decide what you want to do. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And they stand up higher for 15 deer. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we'd decided. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we had too. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What did you decide? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't. I heard y'all 20 decide on that end of the table that there was four Tahoes and 21 one Ford. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not on this -- not totally on 23 this end. That was Jonathan's suggestion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I left the meeting the 25 other day thinking that I heard that. 9-4-07 bwk 90 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You did. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You did, from Jonathan. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. So, I'm not going 4 to vote in here, huh-uh. This is not a meeting. Don't try to 5 get me to break any law. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce and I usually are pretty 7 close, but I agree with Tahoes on this one. I don't think the 8 cost is that much more. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about two Tahoes? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to go with four 11 Tahoes or no Tahoes. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay, I'll go with no. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either four or zero, to me, and 14 I think that it is a -- you know, with the -- where they need 15 to go, and I want to be able to get to my house and other 16 places. I just think they need to be able to get around the 17 county. You know, we're a rugged, rural county, and I think 18 that they -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not on county roads, though, 20 Buster. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they got to go off county 23 roads to -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Spend a lot of time off county 25 roads. 9-4-07 bwk 91 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You ever watch CSI Miami? 2 They drive a Hummer. At least Rusty didn't put in for a 3 Hummer. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I hope that's not next. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hummers will not ever be part 6 of my request. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we need to go with 8 a -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't ask for Hummers. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think four does make sense. 11 MR. TROLINGER: How about four canoes? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, did you investigate whether 13 or not they make a fording kit for those Crown Vic's? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't seen one yet, Judge. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the difference between 16 Tahoes and Expeditions? The name? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Tahoes are the -- the 18 Expeditions are not police package. The Tahoes have now been 19 designed as -- these are police-packaged Tahoes, and they're 20 the higher pursuit and extra cleaners. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just as a general thing, I think 22 that there's no difference between Yukons, Tahoes, and 23 Suburbans. Suburbans are almost more expensive, even though 24 they used to be lower end. I know we recently bought one; a 25 comparable Suburban costs more than the Yukon that we got. 9-4-07 bwk 92 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The police package changed the 2 suspension on these and all the rest of that, and the wiring 3 harnesses and the air coolers, and the transmission coolers is 4 different than the Tahoe you're going to buy at a lot. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was asking for Escalades, but 6 we said no. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not asking now. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Certainly hope so. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I -- there's ever an 10 Escalade, it's going to be because it was seized or something. 11 We just haven't had a chance to -- you know, just means we 12 haven't had a chance to sell it yet. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're getting another 100,000 14 of his jailer line item. I think we can afford -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Tahoes? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You took 30 out of it by my 17 training. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still need another 100 to get 19 out. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I personally have a bad 21 taste in my mouth with law enforcement right now. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uh-oh. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: However, I do know that the 24 public demands police protection. And they demand it. It's 25 not a request; it's a demand. And I think the best thing that 9-4-07 bwk 93 1 we can do is provide the best service as we can to the 2 taxpaying public. So, I'm a Ford Tahoe, one Tamakachi, or 3 whatever the -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One bicycle. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One Crown Vic and four Tahoes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, that's where I'm 7 at. And I'm not voting in here, because it's not a real 8 meeting. 9 MS. HARGIS: All right. We talked about what other 10 city -- the library's the only one. I think the airport was 11 agreed upon. EMs was agreed upon. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Fire contract. 13 MS. HARGIS: The animal, we just cut it in half. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's fifty-fifty, yeah, on that 15 one. 16 MS. HARGIS: We need to add in what Ingram -- now, I 17 don't have Ingram's revenue in there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will say -- and I -- you know, 19 I was asked by a City Councilman what Ingram was going to do, 20 and I said my feeling was that was going to come in, and I 21 think the City should be reduced proportionately. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be fair. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about on the 24 animal -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We want to be fair with them. 9-4-07 bwk 94 1 You know what I mean? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's not -- if Ingram's 3 coming in, we're getting revenue from Ingram, we reduce the 4 total, then divide that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. Take 21 off of the total. 6 MS. HARGIS: But we have more expenses. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever the net -- we net it 8 out. Whatever the net is there. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We add in the additional 10 costs, the additional half a person. Then, off the bottom 11 line, we take 21,000, and then we divide that in half, and 12 that's the City's portion, is one-half. Isn't that the way 13 you see it, Bruce? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure. If that's not fair, I 15 don't know how to do it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all right. 17 MS. HARGIS: Half of expenses is what we put down, 18 not half of the revenue. We didn't give them credit for the 19 revenue, because it wasn't that much before. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need -- I think they 21 need credit for the revenue. They need credit for the 22 revenue. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What are we going to allocate to 24 Ingram's revenue? We need to make some allocation there if 25 we're going to do that. 9-4-07 bwk 95 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram's getting their 2 revenues. They're keeping -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ingram gets their own? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They keep theirs. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 MS. HARGIS: So, the only one, then, that they're -- 8 the only change this year, I assume, is the fire? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The fire? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that will stay at 175. 11 MS. HARGIS: They want a letter when we get down to 12 what it's going to be, so when I give you the memo, I'll do a 13 little paragraph about what I think you want me to do for 14 that, so we can send them -- I've been requested to send them 15 something in writing. Preferably, I'm sure it needs to come 16 from you -- from the Judge. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have one more question. 18 In terms of the airport and the capital improvement plan, my 19 understanding was that CIP was proposed or given to the EIC 20 for funding, and then some questions were raised about some of 21 the items on that CIP. Where are we on that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I have no idea. I 23 mean, what Commissioner Williams is talking about, a large 24 number of our grant matches, the plan was for the EIC to fund 25 those, not the City or the County, out of our general budget. 9-4-07 bwk 96 1 EIC -- some of the members of EIC evidently objected to that 2 approach. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have raised some serious 4 questions about it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Questions about it. But at this 6 point, that's -- I mean, the City prepared the budget and gave 7 it to us, and they haven't told us we need to change it. 8 They're over EIC, so I think we budget as we see fit, as we've 9 done. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Ms. Hyde? 13 MS. HYDE: When we talk about salaries, the JDC -- 14 the Juvenile Detention Center was not on that list. They 15 should have been on that list. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Detention. Kevin. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kevin. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He should be. 20 MS. HYDE: He wasn't on my list. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe he was glad for that; 22 maybe he wasn't. Probably wasn't glad. 23 MS. HYDE: I lumped him in with the Juvenile 24 Probation folks, which are not county. They are, but they're 25 not. 9-4-07 bwk 97 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's separate. He's not 2 part of Juvenile Probation; he's separate. 3 MS. HYDE: I said I lumped him in with Juvenile 4 Probation. That's why I'm bringing it up. He's not on that 5 sheet. He should be on that sheet. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He should be. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would not be opposed to doing 8 a 3.5 percent increase. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 3.5. 3.5 plus COLA? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's done a good job in turning 11 that facility around. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Revenues are -- his revenues are -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3.5 plus COLA. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I hate to drag you out like this, 16 Kevin, but the numbers last week or so have not been too good, 17 have they? 18 MR. STANTON: We went back and looked at that. As 19 far as -- just talking about the kids? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm just talking about the 21 census. 22 MR. STANTON: Oh, the census. Yeah, we've been low 23 the last -- last -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause of summertime? 25 MR. STANTON: Summertime and that kind of stuff. 9-4-07 bwk 98 1 But the one good thing about this past month was that we 2 finally had our -- close to our first $10,000 bill go out, 3 besides to Kerr County. Uvalde got up to about $9,200 this 4 month -- past month. That was a big one. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hardin had her hand up. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought you were through a while 8 ago. 9 MS. HARDIN: No, I stood up here for a long time, 10 and y'all were really busy. I was on vacation last week, so 11 I'm not sure whether Mr. Odom talked to you or not, but Tommy 12 brought to our attention that nothing was done in the road 13 district money. When we received our budget, there was no 14 sheet for the -- for the road districts. All road districts 15 have been finished with current budgets of Road and Bridge 16 through the past, and so Len asked Tommy if it would be 17 possible for us to use some of those funds for capital 18 purchase. 19 MS. HARGIS: Are we on this year? 20 MS. HARDIN: This year. So, the -- there's, like -- 21 it's in Fund 20, and there's, like, $220,000. There's still 22 two of them that are not paid off, that still are generating 23 some funds. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, isn't the road district 25 funds like -- like dedicated funds? 9-4-07 bwk 99 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, what they want -- 2 MS. HARDIN: They're dedicated for repayment of what 3 has already been spent. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 5 MS. HARDIN: And it's dedicated, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're overcharging 7 people? Is that what we're saying? 8 MS. HARDIN: No. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, no. 10 MS. HARDIN: No, no, no, we don't do that. But it 11 was 15 cents per hundred of the tax evaluation, and that money 12 just goes in, and it was, like, a 30-year pay on some of them. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. So, what you're saying is 14 that the revenue account has built up and we've never spent 15 it? 16 MS. HARDIN: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We never put it back into Road 18 and Bridge, where the materials or wherever came from. 19 MS. HARDIN: And each year we have received that 20 budget line item, and we've filled out whatever we needed to 21 do for that year. This year we did not receive one, so it 22 wasn't brought to -- Tommy brought it to our attention after 23 we turned the budget in. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you want to use it for 25 debt reduction? 9-4-07 bwk 100 1 MS. HARDIN: No, we want to use to it buy a new 2 Gradall, if possible. We found one that's been -- it's a 3 leased one, with -- I'm sorry, I don't have the number of 4 hours. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't act on it, so you can 6 put it on the agenda for Monday. 7 MS. HARDIN: Okay, we can put it on for Monday. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, good solution. 9 MS. PIEPER: Judge, that information that I gave you 10 on that bill, do you want to think about that? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I've not -- I'm not sure what 12 I've got. You handed it to me, but I didn't have an 13 opportunity to digest it. 14 MS. PIEPER: Unfunded mandate. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like somebody's lobbying. 16 "Vote no on H.R. 811." 17 MS. PIEPER: But -- well, read -- finish reading 18 that one page. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The "Vote no" page or the other 20 page? 21 MS. PIEPER: No, that page. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the "Vote no" page? 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes. Well, it doesn't matter; either 24 one. If that passes, we've got unfunded mandates on election 25 equipment for 2008 and 2012. 9-4-07 bwk 101 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't act on it anyway. 2 MS. PIEPER: Right. Basically, it was just -- it 3 was from NACO, just telling us to, you know, contact our 4 congressman to vote no on it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: This is just a booger that's lurking 6 out there, huh? 7 MS. PIEPER: Well, all of those came in the same 8 e-mail from NACO. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. PIEPER: But from what I understand, it's 11 supposed to go to a vote today, and so if it passes, we're 12 going to be up a creek. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Somebody's hollering wolf, and I'm 14 not sure. Anything else on the budget? Y'all ready to fold 15 it up? Let's fold it up. We're done. 16 (Budget workshop adjourned at 12:01 p.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-4-07 bwk 102 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my 5 capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court 6 of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place 7 heretofore set forth. 8 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of 9 September, 2007. 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-4-07 bwk