1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Friday, September 28, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 9-28-07 2 1 I N D E X September 28, 2007 2 PAGE 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt the position schedule, step and grade 4 schedule, and general provisions for FY 2007-08 3 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize publication of an RFP for preparation 6 of the 2006-2007 audit 40 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt the proposed salary increases, expenses 8 and allowances for elected officials of Kerr County, Texas, in accordance with the public 9 notice published in the Kerrville Daily Times 41 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt FY 2007-08 Kerr County budget 48 11 1.5 Consider/discuss, adopt the proposed FY 2007-08 12 tax rate for Kerr County 83 13 --- Adjourned 87 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-28-07 3 1 On Friday, September 28, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court which 9 is scheduled and posted for this time and date, Friday, 10 September 28, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is just a bit past that 11 time now. The first item on the agenda is to consider, 12 discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt the position 13 schedule, step and grade schedule, and general provisions for 14 the FY 2007-08 budget. This, of course, is a matter that, at 15 least in part, was a holdover from the previous meeting. 16 Let's -- why don't we go ahead and talk about the position 17 and step and grade schedule. Ms. Hyde, have you got those 18 all in final form, and are they the ones that are 19 incorporated in the latest bound copies of the budget that 20 have been provided to the Court? 21 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And they're in proper order? 23 They've been checked and double-checked and so forth? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And properly conformed to our 9-28-07 4 1 manning -- manning rosters, and also the requirements for 2 compensation under the -- 3 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- schedules that we've adopted? 5 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. There's one change from the 6 last one that you got. Other than updating for law 7 enforcement, in the County Clerk's office, there was an 8 additional $2,570 for six months for an increase for an 9 employee to be the acting chief deputy. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: But other than that, everything is in 12 your files. Step and grade and position schedules are both 13 correct and accurate at this time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a definite blanket 16 statement. We haven't heard that in a long time. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. That's exactly 18 right. Nor have we seen one that's stood all the tests, 19 either. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: So, let's talk about the general 21 provisions. There was some discussion about those items at 22 the prior meeting, and it was rolled to this meeting. And 23 we, I think, have the latest draft before us at this time. 24 Do you want to give us a quick rundown of -- of what the 25 proposed changes are? I suspect it's probably -- I think 9-28-07 5 1 Ms. Hyde was more involved in this, the general -- the 2 general provisions? 3 MS. HYDE: I don't have the latest. I don't -- oh, 4 thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's pretty much as it was last 7 time, except for the -- under the budget issue -- or line 8 item transfer issue, which is -- it's not much changed, as I 9 saw it, other than Human Resources Department was designated 10 as the contact. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, in the loop. The break in 12 service, I think, was previously one year, wasn't it? 13 MS. HYDE: 365 days. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's entirely too long. 90 days 15 may be too long; 30 days may be closer. 16 MS. HYDE: We did 90 days because we thought we'd 17 check that one first and see what happens. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MS. HYDE: Make sure it's nominal. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The other major change that I see is 21 that on -- on comp time, -- 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you got to roll that off within 24 30 days. 25 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9-28-07 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And it had previously been 90 days, 2 I believe. 3 MS. HYDE: This year everyone has pretty much been 4 conforming to the 30 days so they could get used to it, so 5 they're living within their budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, that's pretty much been 7 in practice, then, and everybody's comfortable with it? 8 MS. HYDE: For the most part. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under Capital Outlay, is that a 10 change? I mean, I thought this was a policy that -- I 11 thought that we -- I thought that was what it was, you know. 12 But it -- it's highlighted as if that's something new. 13 MS. HYDE: The financial ones -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't know? 15 MS. HYDE: No, sir. The Auditor -- I thought that 16 Tommy would be here to talk any questions through. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a question on it. 18 That, to me, is what I thought we were already doing. Maybe 19 it just wasn't in here. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, probably wasn't 21 there, and it needs to be in there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, needs to be in there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what had been in there 24 previously was -- it was a reference to a schedule that was 25 attached on prior occasions. And I think the change here 9-28-07 7 1 made it generically -- if you're going to make capital 2 expenditures, they must be approved by the Court. Which, of 3 course, is -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is the case anyway. So, as it 6 stands, it just generically fits into capital outlays or 7 expenditures must be approved by the Court. I think that's 8 been a policy from day one. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't remember anything any 10 different than that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under Item 8, which is complete 12 time and attendance records, there's also a -- appears to be 13 new language here. Is this different than we were doing, 14 really? Or wasn't -- I mean, is this -- I thought we were 15 doing this also. 16 MS. HYDE: What had -- what it had, I think, 17 modified into was more or less a letter saying, "Don't pay 18 someone this," or, "If there's overtime, pay them that." And 19 so as far as the timesheets themselves, for the most part, we 20 got them anywhere from 30 to 45 days after we paid. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: So, what I'm trying to make sure is 23 that, other than law enforcement, who keep all their files 24 totally separate, we get the timesheets within three working 25 days after payroll, after you get your check. And that way 9-28-07 8 1 we've got a record of it in case the auditors come in. We do 2 have a record; this is what we paid, and this is why we paid 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right, good. And 5 are we still in -- I guess going towards getting -- keeping 6 track of this on the computer, full-time or completely, as 7 opposed to -- 8 MS. HYDE: We're working together. We're trying to 9 make sure that we don't get something that we can't live 10 with. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Is that a goal, to have 12 that done by this year? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 (Momentary power outage.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk about something else. 16 (Laughter.) 17 MR. TROLINGER: Now that power's blanked it out, 18 it'll probably be back to paper, but we've got two different 19 projects. One is on the financial, the Incode side that we 20 already own. The other is with a new vendor of ours, the 21 Incode -- or with eDoc. 22 MS. HYDE: eDoc. 23 MR. TROLINGER: With eDoc Tech. We're going to 24 look at both and see who's got the best, because what we want 25 do is have the whole county participate, not just the 9-28-07 9 1 courthouse. And in order to get the Sheriff to participate, 2 we've got to do some things, customize it for law 3 enforcement. So, it's going to cost a little bit of money to 4 do this automation over and above what I'd planned. But I 5 feel it's -- it's the best way to go, to automate. 6 MS. HYDE: Because the automation -- because most 7 of the automation that the people have are for typical 8 businesses; it is not for law enforcement. So, there's going 9 to have to be some modifications to whatever we try to 10 purchase and use. And it's got to pass his -- his test, 11 because we got to follow their -- you know, the rules for 12 them. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it's not my rules. 14 MS. HYDE: No. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's law enforcement; it is a 16 totally different animal when it comes to overtime. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do -- I mean, I'm assuming 18 that it's going -- you get in error when you assume things, 19 but certainly larger cities are computerized, like Houston, 20 San Antonio, Dallas. I mean, they're certainly not doing it 21 manually. 22 MS. HYDE: But they have I.T. folks that have 23 written special programs just for that. They have I.T. 24 programmers. John, help me out here. And a lot of theirs 25 are linked in ways that it may not work exactly with their 9-28-07 10 1 payroll, but they link it, and then it's entered. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And one other example that I 3 will give you, especially when it comes to law enforcement, 4 is -- at least for the Sheriff's Office, okay? My overtime 5 budget runs -- what is it, Judge, about $20,000, $25,000 for 6 deputies a year? City of Kerrville's overtime budget for law 7 enforcement's about $100,000. The difference is, law 8 enforcement officers working over 160, from 161 to 171, all 9 right, do not have to be paid anything other than their 10 regular salary. They can be paid straight time, or they can 11 be paid time and a half, which would be appropriate as, you 12 know, any normal employee working over 40 hours a week, which 13 would be the 160. Okay. What we have always done to keep 14 our overtime down is, our law enforcement receives straight 15 time for those hours from 161 to 171. Then after 171, the 16 law requires that they be paid time and a half. So, they 17 don't get time and a half for that first 11 hours, you know, 18 that most would normally get it. They only get it after that 19 11, and so it does create a unique animal in the way we 20 govern overtime. And, plus, we do swapping, and this is 21 where the hours -- and she can get in -- and what I mean by 22 that is, F.L.S.A. says only for hours actually worked, okay? 23 And that's a big difference. Because what happens is, say 24 one of my guys takes a week's vacation. That's 40 hours that 25 he's not working, so his actual number of hours he worked in 9-28-07 11 1 that 28-day pay period is going to be minus the 40. And if 2 he worked 20 hours of overtime during that, okay, he doesn't 3 get paid for that overtime, because he didn't actually work 4 the 160. But what we do do -- and this is where it's hard to 5 keep our vacation hours down to 160 -- is where he would have 6 lost two weeks -- or a week, you know, 20 hours of -- would 7 have gotten paid 20 hours of overtime, but he's not. We 8 don't deduct 20 hours of vacation from his vacation pool, all 9 right? So, in other words, he took 40 hours off, but he 10 worked 20 hours of overtime. He's not getting paid for the 11 overtime, so all he lost out of his vacation was 20 hours. 12 And that's why our time records are very detailed, very 13 involved out there, to keep that going so we don't have a 14 $100,000 overtime budget. But it does make it very, very 15 hard to keep those vacation hours down to 160 a year, 16 especially if you got somebody that's got 20 years service 17 in, okay? And it's already getting -- it gets -- law 18 enforcement is very different. And -- and it could be easily 19 done on their computer system if you want to pay them time 20 and a half overtime after 160 hours, which they -- then 21 you're going quadruple on overtime budget. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You think we're going to be in a 23 position relatively soon to have something in place where we 24 can do this thing all electronically under some sort of a 25 program? 9-28-07 12 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There were -- and they brought 2 out one vendor that showed us one that I don't think any of 3 us wanted to go to; that it could work, and would have 4 probably worked, but I think their program was 50,000 to 5 start out, and 5,000 a year maintenance fees. So, you know, 6 it's not feasible to do it that way. Eva did have one the 7 other day that looked like it may, and what she's had -- 8 Trolinger and her been working on, I just haven't seen it to 9 be able to sit down with it and kind of play with it to see 10 if it would do it that way. Otherwise -- you know, 'cause if 11 it doesn't, it just jumps -- I can make anything work, but it 12 really jumps our overtime up if we don't -- if we're not 13 careful on our recordkeeping. 14 MS. HYDE: I changed the timesheets for this year, 15 because in the past there's been a lot of confusion. I think 16 there's been six or seven versions of the time sheet out 17 there that people use, and how you use it, so I just made one 18 myself. Now, if y'all want to pay me $25,000 for that 19 spreadsheet, I -- you know -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it in next year's 21 budget. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Eva's got a good point. There's 23 really nothing technical-wise that's stopping us from 24 electronic timekeeping. It's really the Sheriff going along 25 with whatever we decide on. And right now -- 9-28-07 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Before we institute that 2 county-wide, we need to have his nailed down, too. 3 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: In an efficient manner. 5 MR. TROLINGER: That's the most difficult part. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But his part, it sounds to me 7 like we end up losing 50,000 a year if we just use a generic 8 system. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. If we don't 10 make it fit -- if we don't write it to fit how we can legally 11 do law enforcement, then, yes, it shows my guys are working 12 overtime and getting paid for it, even though they didn't 13 actually work over the 160, 'cause they had vacation. So -- 14 MR. TROLINGER: I think what you're hearing more is 15 a fear of automation than it is any technical hurdle. 16 MS. HYDE: I've also got the worksheet about 17 halfway done for him to look at and see, make sure that I'm 18 on -- online. If I can make a spreadsheet do it, then the 19 software folks should be able to take my spreadsheet and do 20 the same darn thing. So, it -- you know, it shouldn't be 21 that difficult, especially if they have a template. Do you 22 agree, John? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 24 MS. HYDE: So that's -- that's kind of it in a 25 nutshell. 9-28-07 14 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we get the Sheriff's 2 considerations satisfied, -- 3 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- get the software to his 5 satisfaction, then we're ready to go? 6 MS. HYDE: Well, if I can make the spreadsheet 7 match what he wants, then they should be able to write some 8 software to match what he wants. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And everybody else is ready 10 to go online, waiting on the Sheriff? 11 MS. HYDE: They'll be able to go -- well, the rest 12 of the folks are going to go ahead and use the new timesheets 13 starting next week, and that's what we're going to use for 14 payment. It's also going to help with the supervisors -- 15 MR. STANTON: We're not. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Kevin Stanton is -- he's got kind of 17 a -- 18 MS. HYDE: He's law enforcement. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's got the same thing I do. 20 MS. HYDE: He's law enforcement, and they're going 21 to turn in their timesheets within three days after the 22 payday instead of trying to do this five days before. It 23 makes no sense; it's redundant. We're doing two and three 24 sets of paperwork for nothing. Our people are working. 25 Let's turn them in. Here they are; here's one. 9-28-07 15 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, a couple questions I have 3 on this that Eva doesn't -- is Number 8 right now going to 4 apply to law enforcement, and are you talking a complete 5 time, or just their monthly timesheets? 6 MS. HYDE: No -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Their complete records or 8 what? 9 MS. HYDE: Law enforcement is not -- you guys keep 10 -- you keep your stuff on-site so that you're in compliance 11 with TCLEOSE or T.J.P.C. or -- they keep their -- their files 12 totally separate. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 14 MS. HYDE: And the other file separation was for 15 Road and Bridge, 'cause they have their own file system 16 there. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And -- 18 MS. HYDE: No-kill injuries. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is Number 2 where you -- 20 Number 2, under Overtime. 21 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Where it says that comp time 23 must be taken within one month, okay? My officers do not 24 earn any comp time. We pay for the -- for the actual comp 25 time they work, which is the 160, or we try and get them to 9-28-07 16 1 take it back off. The one thing they do build up, just 2 because we would be really hurting if we had to pay it, is 3 holidays, okay? When they work holidays, I just add another 4 day into a bank, kind of like their vacation, but we add it 5 into -- into a bank, keep it separated so that we're not 6 paying for those. They can just take those off later at any 7 time they wish. So, they build up -- two types of time that 8 they actually build up; one is holiday, and one is vacation. 9 The end of the month. Otherwise, they don't build that up. 10 Everything else is paid, but those two they do build up. 11 And, you know, if you want me to pay them for those holidays 12 when they work it, we'll just pay it straight out. But that, 13 again, jumps that overtime way up above what I budget for 14 each year. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It sounds like -- I mean, both 16 under 8 and then under this one -- especially under 8, you're 17 telling me that -- I mean, it says here that you're keeping 18 track of it. And then you just said that except for the 19 Sheriff and Road and Bridge. Well, we need to exclude them 20 if they're different. 21 MS. HYDE: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It says -- 'cause it says, you 23 know, will be maintained by Human Resources Department. 24 Now -- or you could add language, "or its designee," maybe, 25 or something like that. I mean -- 9-28-07 17 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, but it would actually 2 be Rusty and Road and Bridge and -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And Juvenile Detention. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- Juvenile Probation. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sum it up as law 6 enforcement and Road and Bridge. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we say, "or H.R. 8 designee," that way it's kind of -- covers it, rather than 9 trying to list departments. And also, I think that's easier 10 for the long-term, of trying to get everyone in -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Makes sense. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the same basket. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Those were the only ones I had 14 concerns about. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On your holiday, that's hour 16 for hour? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We just put, you know, that 20 same -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If they have an 8-hour shift on a 22 holiday? 23 MS. HYDE: Twelve. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's 12. But -- and 25 that's a hard situation when you work 12-hour shifts, okay? 9-28-07 18 1 Because if your shift starts at 6 p.m. tonight, today's a 2 holiday, and you don't get off till 6 a.m. in the morning, 3 all right? Are you -- do you deserve 12 hours holiday? Or 4 just from 6:00 to midnight? Or -- 5 MS. HYDE: Well, they start work -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If the other shift works 7 6 a.m. today and gets off at 6 p.m. today, they're getting 12 8 hours of holiday, where the other one may only be getting 8 9 hours. So that's why -- you know, I also -- what I like to 10 see, and how we try and do it is not holidays by day, 'cause 11 courthouse looks at it as an 8-hour day. We look at holidays 12 as hours. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, holiday starts at 14 12:01 a.m. and ends at midnight the next night. 15 MS. HYDE: Well, one other way that some folks can 16 do it, or we can -- we could do it is if you work -- if you 17 start work on the holiday, and that means your start work 18 time is on that holiday, not the day before or the day after. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Day after doesn't matter, but 20 if you start at 6 a.m. -- 21 MS. HYDE: You start at 6:00. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- on a holiday, you get 12 23 hours holiday. 24 MS. HYDE: Right. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you start at 6 p.m. -- 9-28-07 19 1 MS. HYDE: You still get the 12, 'cause you're 2 working the holiday. I mean, that makes it real clean, 3 versus trying to figure out -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: How have you been handling it? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Twelve. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because I just feel there's 8 nothing else they can do. They can't go do anything on that 9 holiday; they're coming to work at 6 p.m., and so we do give 10 them the 12. If they're a 12-hour employee, you know, if 11 they're one of the deputies or jailers. If they're clerical, 12 they're off on the holiday. And dispatchers are just what 13 their shifts are. Those aren't bad, because they're 3:00 to 14 11:00. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see it the same way. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, y'all are in 17 agreement. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, that's -- all those things 19 go into her timesheets when the computer has to figure out 20 hours and all that. That's why it's a problem. 21 MR. STANTON: We've been doing it just the opposite 22 of the Sheriff's Department. I mean, is this going to be a 23 policy that the County's setting that we need to change the 24 way we do our holidays? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think everybody needs to be on the 9-28-07 20 1 same page. You know, what's good for the goose is good for 2 the gander. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, hey, hey, don't be 4 calling people names. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: I like being called a gander. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you? 8 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk to you later when we 10 get through here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to Number 8, I just 12 thought -- but the ultimate records, do they get to your 13 department ever? Or do they stay completely in these other 14 sites? 15 MS. HYDE: They'll stay in the other sites, but 16 it's our responsibility to make sure that they've got them. 17 So, we'll check them once a quarter, and that will go in 18 under the Auditor's auditing process; we'll check to make 19 sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And just to let you know, mine 22 are -- all of our time records are secured in a locked closet 23 in files, to where only certain people have access to any of 24 that, anyhow. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I'll make a motion 9-28-07 21 1 that we adopt the position -- 2 MS. PIEPER: Excuse me. Can I get clarification 3 before we do this? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 5 MS. PIEPER: Sorry. On the budget amendment, this 6 section I do not believe has changed from the previous 7 general provisions. It's just that the way we have done it 8 does not conform with this. So, are we literally going to go 9 by this section in each office? Put in an agenda request for 10 budget amendments? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think yes. I think the 12 controls from the auditing standpoint, we need to follow 13 state law, and if there's not money in your line item, you 14 can't spend it. 15 MS. PIEPER: No, I understand that. I don't have 16 any problem with that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that means -- how I see this 18 is that if a line item is getting low, and you know 19 expenditures need to be made this year, that money's got to 20 be found somewhere else in your budget and come before it 21 goes negative. 22 MS. PIEPER: Right, and we have been doing that. 23 But we have been giving the Auditor's office the budget 24 amendment form, and actually, they have been -- we normally 25 would call them up and say, you know, "I need more money in 9-28-07 22 1 this line item. Can we take it out of this line item?" And 2 they would literally type up the form. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But you're initiating the request. 4 That's the point here. 5 MS. PIEPER: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, the fact that they 7 physically put it together and put it in a package for budget 8 amendments, that's a ministerial thing. You're initiating 9 the request by maintaining oversight of your budget and what 10 your needs are. 11 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And whether do you the actual 13 document or whether you have the Auditor do it, -- 14 MS. PIEPER: But according to this -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think it's ultimately your 16 responsibility to see that it's done. 17 MS. PIEPER: Right. No, I do that. But according 18 to this, it says that we have to do an agenda request? 19 MS. HYDE: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says elected official 21 must appear before the Commissioners Court and the agenda 22 request, blah, blah, blah. I agree with you; that's a good 23 question. 24 MR. TROLINGER: During pay bills -- the agenda, 25 "Pay Bills," is that not the agenda? 9-28-07 23 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's an agenda item. Budget 2 amendments, sure. 3 MS. PIEPER: Okay. So, what I'm asking, is that 4 process going to change? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The change, as I see it, is 6 that you -- it's done before the expenditure rather than 7 after. Now, as -- as has happened under the current process, 8 if we have a question, we may not do it until we get the 9 elected official in here. 10 MS. PIEPER: Right. I understand that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that -- I mean, if 12 they're pretty generic or we don't have questions, then 13 usually -- I mean, so I don't think every elected official 14 needs to be here. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's what the 16 language says. That's why she's raising the question. 17 MS. PIEPER: The way I understand it is, on the 18 agenda, it would have 1.1, County Clerk, consider and discuss 19 my budget amendment. 20 MR. TROLINGER: No. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 22 MS. PIEPER: 1.2 is the Treasurer. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 24 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see what Mindy's got here. 9-28-07 24 1 MS. WILLIAMS: I think the confusion is where it 2 says that the elected official or department head must 3 appear. That tells me I've got to be here. If I've got a 4 budget amendment, I have to sit here through court, wait 5 until the budget amendments are done. 6 MS. PIEPER: Right. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: And a lot of times, we've got a lot 8 of things going where we need to be in the office working. 9 The reason -- I think the reason that we were doing it the 10 way we were, the elected official or department head would 11 contact the Auditor's office and say, "I need to do a budget 12 amendment. I want to move from it here to here." They 13 prepare the form. The elected official normally, if they're 14 available, will sign off on it, and then the Auditor, as a 15 courtesy, was presenting it to the Court to keep the elected 16 officials and department heads from having to be tied up here 17 during that time. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a way to simplify 19 it. "If the elected official or department head's," 20 apostrophe S. Take out "must appear before Commissioners 21 Court." That would make it read, "the elected official or 22 department head's agenda request must be supported by 23 sufficient documentation to support the transfer." 24 MS. WILLIAMS: That sounds better. And then if 25 there are questions that the Court has, at that point you can 9-28-07 25 1 contact that elected official and say, "Hey, we need you down 2 here. You have to explain a little bit more as to what 3 you're wanting." 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The whole idea is for this 6 to take place before -- 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the budget amendment 9 request, so that we're not paying -- oops. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. In other words, get the 11 budget amendment done before you actually expend that -- that 12 moneys, before you ever order that item. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's going to go over that 14 amount of money you have in that budget line. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 17 MS. PIEPER: And then I have another suggestion on 18 this same line item. When we do budget amendments, can we 19 try to do it in, like, one order? To where if we have ten 20 budget amendments, you go down and hear all 10 of them, and 21 then at the very end, somebody make a motion to approve it? 22 Perhaps with the exception of Item Number 3. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we've been 24 doing the last month or two. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor has modified that 9-28-07 26 1 process. She provides us with a summary, and we're doing it 2 with one motion, unless a member of the Court wants to pull 3 out or exclude -- 4 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- one of those items for separate 6 consideration. 7 MS. PIEPER: Right. I don't want that to change, 8 'cause then it makes it -- when you have to do a billion 9 orders after court, it makes it much harder. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's helped you immensely, hasn't 11 it, Cheryl? 12 MS. THOMPSON: Yes, it has. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cuts down on the paperwork. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, cuts down on a lot of time 15 that we have to spend going through the drill here also. Any 16 other questions? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two -- 18 MS. GAULDEN: I just have one thing to ask you 19 about on the budget amendments, again. I know that you're 20 well aware of our situation with the Court-appointed 21 attorneys on C.P.S. cases, and a lot of times we don't know 22 about those expenditures until we actually get the invoice 23 from the court upstairs. So, is that going to cause a 24 problem for us there? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: What I would encourage you to do 9-28-07 27 1 there, as you see those dwindling down, your line item, -- 2 MS. GAULDEN: Mm-hmm. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you come to the Court, file a 4 budget amendment request ahead of time. 5 MS. GAULDEN: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: With the justification being that 7 this is happening, and we're getting close to exhausting 8 those funds; we need to replenish this line item. 9 MS. GAULDEN: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The other option is, under this 11 language, we're going to hold up paying those lawyers until 12 the money's there. This whole thing was prompted by a 13 concern that we were -- maybe our bills were not being paid 14 in a timely manner. If there's funds in the budget account, 15 there's no reason for the payment of those bills to be held 16 up, except for approval by the department head or elected 17 official, and that shouldn't take too long. And if the funds 18 are in the line item, however, then it goes right on through. 19 The holdup is when you have to come in, move funds into the 20 account line item, because debts have been incurred for which 21 there weren't available funds in that budget line item. 22 MS. GAULDEN: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, keep an eye on it. That's what 24 it's intended to do, is to cause you to do that and to be 25 proactive and get out ahead of it. 9-28-07 28 1 MS. GAULDEN: Okay, thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another thing I think that 3 the -- you know, I look at it as the -- the judges need to 4 keep a little bit of an idea as to what their budget's -- 5 what's going on with it. I mean, they know what they're 6 doing. They know what trials they're working on and 7 handling. If they know that they have a huge expenditure 8 coming from, you know, a -- in any one of those 9 Court-appointed services that they are over, they need to, 10 you know, make these changes before the money gets spent. 11 MS. GAULDEN: Well, the only thing there is, 12 though, we have judges upstairs, like in C.P.S. and A.G. 13 cases, that are appointing attorneys, and we don't know about 14 them until we get the bill for that attorney. They -- the 15 judge up there will send us an invoice, or the attorney will 16 send us an invoice, and that's when we first find out that 17 they've been appointed on a case up there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 19 MS. GAULDEN: They send it down here for Judge 20 Brown to approve if it's filed in the County Court at Law. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. In her situation, she's -- 22 she's really caught in the middle, because they come out of 23 Judge Brown's budget, but he has no control over authorizing 24 expenditures -- 25 MS. GAULDEN: Right. 9-28-07 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the cases upstairs. For a 2 couple of years now, he says, "For goodness sake, give those 3 people their own budget and take me out of it." And he's got 4 a good point. But -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He does. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But we can't get those folks to be 7 accountable; they're state people. So, we got to pour 8 through our budgets -- one of our budgets, and she's caught 9 in the middle. But -- 10 MS. GAULDEN: I mean, we keep an eye on the budget, 11 you know. You know, we do the best we can on that. And if 12 we need to have money transferred, you know, we request it. 13 But we don't really have any control over who's being 14 appointed and when. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And how much they're being paid. 16 Right, I understand. 17 MS. GAULDEN: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You might also get with 19 Ms. Henderson upstairs to bring her up to speed on this, to 20 monitor these things and be proactive about them as we see 21 those things happening. 'Cause I know, on behalf of the 22 District Judges, she's going to be the one that's filing for 23 the budget requests. Actually, probably most all the work is 24 done by the Auditor's office, but she's going to be the one 25 monitoring those, I'm sure. 9-28-07 30 1 MS. GAULDEN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You made a comment, Judge, 3 that's kind of interesting about how much they're being paid. 4 Are attorneys who are Court-appointed and selected by either 5 the judges upstairs or Judge Brown or by you, perhaps, are 6 they reimbursed at their billing rate or a court rate set -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: They're -- they're by rates that 8 have been established and published for Court-appointed 9 attorneys for those particular types of cases. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a rate for my juveniles, 12 for example, a specific rate. I have a specific rate for my 13 mental health attorneys. I have a rate for my mental health 14 masters. The -- occasionally, I'll do one in probate court, 15 because of -- it's cost-exempt. But also the judges 16 upstairs, and Judge Brown, they have schedules that they go 17 by, and they follow those schedules. The lawyers are well 18 aware of them, and they know what's being done. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll just say that I believe 21 that if they incur a bill and there's no money in the line 22 item, they may have to wait a couple weeks to get paid until 23 they have time to do that budget amendment. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean a lawyer? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 9-28-07 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think anybody in 2 this room would get heartburn about a lawyer getting paid 3 late. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, Buster. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except for maybe the Judge; 6 he's the only lawyer in here, I think. Whoop-dee-doo. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't really matter whether 8 it's a lawyer or anybody else, but I do agree with the 9 heartburn thing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, you had some more 11 comments? 12 MS. HYDE: Well, because Ms. Hargis isn't here, on 13 that -- on the budget amendments, the reason why she wanted 14 people to be here, it's their budget, and she wants people to 15 be here to be able to explain why, instead of the Auditor 16 attempting to explain why, especially as we get farther along 17 in the year and people start maxing out on their line items. 18 So, she asked me if it went this way, just to make sure that 19 that got out there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that logic, and I 21 think there may be cases where, if it's a large item, some 22 explanation may be needed. But I don't think it's efficient 23 use of our elected -- elected officials to have them sitting 24 in court all day. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 9-28-07 32 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On normal bills, okay, that's 2 what -- that's why we have a problem with them getting paid 3 on time, is your normal billing. And this doesn't address 4 normal bills. Not anything out of budget; it's in budget. 5 You're just paying your normal bills each month. Is there a 6 way, or is it going to change -- it's not written in here -- 7 that, like, I get a bill in today. You know, it's coded. I 8 initial it for payment. It comes over. What normally 9 happens is, it's the following Commissioners Court, if it's 10 submitted to her before the deadline, or it's the one after 11 that if it's the day after the deadline. And that's where 12 the county has the biggest problem -- 13 MS. HYDE: Right. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- with bills being paid late. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've shortened that period of 16 the lead time you need to get it to -- I believe. Didn't we 17 shorten it? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That will not solve the 19 problem, Jonathan. What the problem is, if it's in the 20 budget and that department head has approved it -- I 21 understood what Buster was saying the other day, last 22 hearing, was that he wants to make sure somebody has control 23 over that. If your department head or elected official 24 doesn't have control over it, there's -- there's a problem 25 that y'all need to deal with. But once I initial that bill 9-28-07 33 1 for payment and I send it over, why can't it be paid at that 2 time? And then when it comes back, y'all get to view the 3 bills. If you have a question over that bill, then rake me 4 over the coals; question me about the bill, that you don't 5 think it was -- you know, should have been spent, even though 6 it was within the line items and that. And, you know, if you 7 have to, and worse came to worse, cut my line item by that 8 amount if you didn't think it should have ever been done. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, I think the simple answer 10 to that question is, if I'm not mistaken, the law requires 11 that the Commissioners Court authorize every single 12 expenditure of county funds. Now, you say, "Well, you can 13 ratify it." Well, the expenditure's been made. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, how do -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I just don't see a way around it. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. I just don't 17 understand, then, how all -- a lot of other counties don't -- 18 bills aren't being paid late, but ours are, and that's where 19 I have an issue, 'cause we get calls all the time over, "When 20 are we going to get our check?" I said, "Well, we got on it 21 this day; we sent it over on this day. It was the day after 22 the cutoff that we got it, so now it's going to be, you know, 23 three weeks before it ever even goes to" -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's where the problem 25 occurs, when they come in at the tail end of a particular 9-28-07 34 1 period and they're held over for the two weeks. That's where 2 the problem is. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's not unusual, 4 because a lot of times where your last Commissioners Court on 5 that month, you know, falls and that, or the first one, and 6 it creates that problem, with the way the courts fall in the 7 calendar. It's not anything anybody's doing intentional, but 8 they're -- but saying you only have five days to get them in 9 or three days to get them in will not solve this problem, 10 because a lot of them are weeks overdue. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the solution, as I see it, to 12 that, Sheriff, would be to periodically hold, in this gap 13 period, special Commissioners Court meetings -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for the purpose of authorizing 16 the payment of bills. But beyond that, I don't see any way, 17 if the law is as I believe it to be, that we should allow 18 bills to be paid that we've not approved to be paid. 'Cause 19 I don't want -- frankly, I don't want to get in that trap. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I can understand that. 21 But maybe there needs -- you know, because we have an amount 22 of money in our budgeted line item. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a certain amount for 25 food or whatever for the jail, okay. As long as I don't go 9-28-07 35 1 over that and I've initialed that bill to be approved to be 2 paid, okay -- I'd just like a little bit of research, maybe. 3 Can that bill go ahead and be paid, then? And then, if y'all 4 have a question, that says you still get to review them. But 5 I'm not sure that it can't be paid at that time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe the County Attorney 7 did that after the last meeting. I know he looked at -- the 8 language that was submitted by the Auditor was not legal. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that was on the budget 10 amendment she was talking about, and that I can understand. 11 If it goes outside what y'all agreed in the budget, then yes, 12 I can definitely -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just have to have another 14 meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The answer to your 16 question is no, we're not going to do it. But -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Williams? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we can fix it by having 19 another meeting. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think a lot of 21 yours -- I know we have the largest budget, so we do go 22 through a lot. And one thing is, we get bills every day of 23 the week, so it would just about mean every month, you're 24 going to add another meeting in to keep those bills from 25 being paid late. 9-28-07 36 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So be it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Williams, you had some comments? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: I just wanted to clarify for Rusty 5 and for everybody. You know, working in the Auditor's office 6 as long as I did, even after the cutoff date, when the bills 7 would come in, we would go through and we would pick out the 8 ones that we knew needed to be paid, were time-sensitive, and 9 those girls will really put those things in, even, like, two 10 days after the cutoff. But it takes a lot of time to get 11 them set up and entered in order to get the reports to the 12 Court before the court meeting. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that practice still 14 continuing? 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. A lot of the 16 bottleneck -- and this is my opinion only -- is because we 17 pay by statement. If we paid by invoice, we could probably 18 process them a lot quicker. But the County has always, in 19 the past, wanted to wait until you got the statement. You 20 turn it in, we pay it. Statements don't usually go out till 21 the end of the month. Okay, you're not going to get it for 22 four or five days. By the time they check it, they approve 23 it, they code it, they get it to us, we've missed the first 24 court date. It goes to the second one. If they don't have 25 the money in the budget, it's going to go to the next time. 9-28-07 37 1 So, yeah, we are a little bit late. But if we changed that, 2 you know, instead of paying by statement, start paying by 3 invoice. As you get them in, you okay them, you process 4 them, you send them in; it's a constant flow. And it may be 5 that we do need to set up another meeting date to pay bills 6 during the month. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: This would entail the folks in the 8 Auditor's department making a new schedule, bringing it to 9 the Court, having these other vendor vouchers and so forth, 10 all of that being prepared one additional time for each 11 additional meeting; is that correct? 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mindy, if we go towards the 15 purchasing order system that Ms. Hargis wants to, that will 16 also solve a lot of this, 'cause the information will already 17 be in the computer, so when the invoice comes in, all the 18 data's there. It's just a matter of reconciling it and 19 sending it on through. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Correct. From what I understand, if 21 we do the purchase orders, when the purchase order is issued, 22 it will automatically take that money out of that line item 23 and put it in a holding area. So, when you look at your 24 budget -- say you purchased -- or you ordered something for 25 $500 out of office supplies. You had a $2,000 budget. 9-28-07 38 1 That's 500 out here. You only got 1,500 left to spend. It 2 gives you a better control over what you actually have in 3 that line item. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That -- 5 MS. WILLIAMS: I think it would cut down a lot on 6 the other spending. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That would be good on your 8 overspending, because what happens now is all our budgets -- 9 you know, when I pull mine up online, I really am running 10 about a month behind, so I have to go to the secretary, see 11 what we've sent over for the last month, because that amount 12 in there is not going to be deducted out of that. And that 13 system would help that a whole, whole lot, so that you're 14 doing better. We get bills every day and send them over 15 right when we get them, and we still get calls that they're 16 being paid late, and that's what bothers me. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Trolinger, how far away 18 from implementing that -- 19 MR. TROLINGER: It's up to the Auditor to enforce 20 it, issuing of purchase orders. Because it's already in the 21 software. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- 23 MR. TROLINGER: She's familiar with Incode; it's 24 going to be a good system. It's going to really -- it's 25 going to be used the way it's intended to be. 9-28-07 39 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She is getting everything else, 2 I think, in a row before she starts going in that -- I think 3 it'll be a gradual -- by department, as I understand it from 4 talking to her. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How do we do that on inmate 6 prescriptions? We have to get a purchase order before we 7 order that medicine? 'Cause we do that, you know, beaucoup 8 times. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're beyond general 10 provisions, I think. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, Rex would say we're past 12 that. So -- okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hyde, did you get those 15 modifications to the general provisions that we discussed? 16 MS. HYDE: Except law enforcement -- except law 17 enforcement, and the -- or the H.R. stays with me. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the change of that sentence 19 in budget amendments. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Budget amendment. 21 MS. HYDE: Just checking. I took -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll give you this one; it's got 23 them. 24 MS. HYDE: They must be there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 9-28-07 40 1 adopt the position schedule, step and grade schedule, and 2 general provisions as modified today. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Further question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We spent more time on general 7 provisions than we've ever spent, probably. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ever. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is good -- a good thing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If they're going to be effective, 11 they need to be something that you follow. That's been the 12 problem before, being approved prior. Any further question 13 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 19 to Item 2; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 20 authorize publication of an RFP for preparation of the 21 2006-07 audit. The -- the Auditor is at a conference and 22 left with us a proposed Request for Proposal for auditing 23 services. It's pretty detailed, pretty long, pretty 24 comprehensive. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what kind of 9-28-07 41 1 conference is the Auditor at right now? Do you know? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you recall exactly, Ms. Hyde? 3 The conference that the Auditor is attending today? 4 MS. HYDE: It is the leadership conference for the 5 Chamber. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. It's Leadership Kerr 7 County. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is what it is. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Just kind of a 11 strange time for an auditor to be out of the -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When we're dealing with their 13 job. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 15 authorize the Auditor to publish the RFP for preparation of 16 the 2006-2007 audit. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor of 20 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next item 25 is Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 9-28-07 42 1 adopt the proposed salary increases, expenses, and allowances 2 for elected officials of Kerr County, Texas, in accordance 3 with the public notice as published in the Kerrville Daily 4 Times. As most of you recall, there was a publication as 5 required under applicable state law dealing -- the statute 6 actually says "increases," so not all -- all of those 7 officials were listed. I think County Court at Law Judge was 8 not listed, because there was no increase. But with respect 9 to others in which there were any increases, they were listed 10 and published in the local newspaper, as required by law. 11 And that's what we're looking at with regard to Agenda Item 12 Number 3. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 16 indicated. Further question or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I still don't agree with the 20 extra 3 and a half percent on the Commissioners Court. I 21 brought that up once before and I was outvoted, but I still 22 want to express my displeasure with us taking a higher 23 increase than what we're giving our employees, and I don't 24 care whether it's to realign us with other counties or 25 whatever the reason. I think it's wrong, and I just want to 9-28-07 43 1 express that -- that view on that issue. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment, I guess -- 3 and I'm -- Number 4 may not want to answer it. In the last 4 several years, we have gone to great length -- probably the 5 last five years, to really increase, almost department by 6 department, all of our employees, and eliminated the bottom 7 two pay grades completely, I believe, county-wide. During 8 that period, there was no increases for, certainly, 9 Commissioners, and probably most other elected officials. If 10 -- how do you increase the elected official and Commissioners 11 if you don't do it at one time? I mean, do you do it -- you 12 say, like -- well, I mean, I don't see how you can do it any 13 other way. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you can't, but I guess 15 my point is that over -- I've been gone for eight years, and 16 the salary's doubled since I've been gone, so somewhere along 17 the way there had been some increases. I mean, it couldn't 18 be where it is now compared to where it was if there hadn't 19 been. And I do agree that those things periodically do need 20 to be -- to be raised, but getting 3 and a half percent in 21 COLA this year is an increase. I mean, we're going to get 22 the same thing everybody else gets, but then when you add 23 another 3 and a half percent on top of that, which makes it 24 7, and we chastised the City of Kerrville as well as the 25 Appraisal District for doing the same thing, and we didn't 9-28-07 44 1 approve the budget for that reason. I don't think I can 2 support it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I -- just an observation or 4 two. First of all, Commissioner, I came on the Court when 5 you went off. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The salary has not doubled 8 in the interim eight years. It has increased, but it hasn't 9 doubled, 'cause I know what I got when I came on, which is 10 what you got when you went off. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $24,300. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was 28. And it hasn't 13 doubled since that time. But be that as it may, I read with 14 interest, and I know that Judge Tinley has read the same 15 thing I read with respect to analysis of where salaries are 16 in Kerr County. And while we are government, and that's a 17 little separate, the fact of the matter is, we have a large 18 employee group, and employee groups consists of elected 19 officials as well as our employees. We're all employees. We 20 all shop in this marketplace. We all purchase in this 21 marketplace. When you take a look and you realize that the 22 average wage in Kerr County is 30 percent below the state 23 average, think about it. We need not to be holding things 24 down. We need not to be so ultra-generous that it does 25 reflect negatively, but by the same token, there is something 9-28-07 45 1 to be said about helping to improve that situation in Kerr 2 County. And it starts right here. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with you on 4 employees, and I -- you know, I would agree more if we ran 5 our own road -- road crews and all that, which we don't. And 6 that's compared to other counties that do run their own road 7 crews, and that is a very big issue. And I think we're well 8 compensated for what we do, and it's just -- it's a principle 9 thing with me. And I just -- I just think that we take the 10 same thing we're willing to give the employees, and I fully 11 support the employees and getting what they deserve, and I do 12 believe in time they will need to be raised up even more. 13 But that's just my thought. It's just me personally. What I 14 -- what we're paid, I think we're paid very well. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- you know, certainly, 16 I mean, I've -- I put out a proposal that Commissioners 17 didn't get raised either, but I'm also seeing the other 18 departments that I thought shouldn't have gotten raises, so 19 the only thing -- singling out Commissioners every time we 20 give pay raises doesn't make sense to me. But, you know -- 21 and the other thing you mentioned, I don't recall chastising 22 City of Kerrville this year. Not on this issue, anyway. 23 (Laughter.) But on the Appraisal District, the problem out 24 of the Appraisal District, you have to look beyond -- on 25 salaries, beyond one year. My recollection is for the last 9-28-07 46 1 three years, and probably longer, they give a blanket 2 7 percent every year, and that's a lot different than going 3 in and -- and making adjustments every once in a while. And 4 that's a little bit different way of doing it. I would, you 5 know, be voting with you, and I'm real close anyway, but if 6 we were giving a 7 percent raise every year to department 7 heads, that's a lot different than singling out. But I 8 understand your -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I mean, that's just the 10 way I'm thinking. The other thing is -- there's one other 11 thing, and then I'll leave it alone; you beat me up enough. 12 But on the COLA increases for -- for employees or department 13 heads prior to having at least six months of service seems 14 unfair to me. And I believe that it was proposed that the 15 Auditor get the 3.5 plus a 3.5, and she just came on board in 16 July. Why do we give her a COLA? She hasn't been here. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you 100 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with you on that one. 19 I think it gets -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just don't think -- I mean, 21 it's not fair to the rest of the employees that have been 22 here. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not an elected official. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not covered by this item. 9-28-07 47 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I'm sorry. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, that salary is subject to 3 being established by the District Judges, who hire and 4 approve the compensation within the limits set by -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll leave that alone till we 6 get on the next thing. Excuse me. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On your -- on that topic, 8 though -- and I think maybe it's difficult to go back in, and 9 where do you draw the line? But on anyone who is salaried 10 and we make a salary adjustment, I tend to agree that a COLA 11 on top of a salary adjustment doesn't make a lot of sense. 12 But the other side of it is, it causes a bookkeeping problem 13 if you don't give across the board, 'cause you say, okay, 14 well, you know, Employee X has been here, you know, four 15 months, and someone's been here eight months. Well, does 16 that mean that you get a one-third or a two-thirds of a COLA? 17 You know, it starts getting -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. We'll get to that in a 19 minute. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 22 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 25 9-28-07 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm opposed. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 4 to Item 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 5 adopt the FY 2007-08 Kerr County budget. The budget has been 6 provided to you, the latest version. Based upon discussions 7 and various issues that have come before us, I think we've 8 only heard of one today dealing with an interim chief deputy 9 for the County Clerk because of a special situation there. 10 But -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as far as I know, everything is 13 in what's before you now with that exception. Yes, sir? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to make a motion 15 that we adopt this budget, but I have a couple of things that 16 I want to discuss before we get down to actual voting. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second the motion. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 19 Question or discussion on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. There are a 21 couple of things that I want to bring back up. One is the 22 Sheriff's Office vehicles. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page are we on? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any idea what 25 page it's on. 9-28-07 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's go to the 2 Sheriff's Department. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff's -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I commented that I felt like 5 that the public demands law enforcement, good law 6 enforcement, and I will not back away from that. That's a 7 true statement. But I have visited with a couple of friends 8 of mine in the last week. This has been kind of bothering me 9 a little bit, so I visited with a couple of friends that are 10 wise men, and I've changed my mind on the way I want to vote. 11 I want to vote that the Sheriff receive four Fords and one 12 Tahoe. And I don't know how you go -- how we go about doing 13 that. I'd be happy to make a motion right this moment, or do 14 we want to wait to the end? Or is this the time to change 15 the budget? Or are you going to throw something at me for 16 wanting to change it at all? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, not at all. That's your 18 prerogative, Commissioner. I -- and I'm thinking out loud. 19 Number one, before I -- before I forget it, because of our -- 20 of our tax structure, there is some language that we need to 21 add to the very front of the budget. There's some language 22 required by House Bill 3195 that's statutorily mandated, and 23 it's not with the budget. If you wouldn't mind first 24 amending your motion to include the required language as 25 required by House Bill 3195, we'll be past that hump. 9-28-07 50 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that acceptable? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that language? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: It deals with -- that this budget 5 generates -- the tax rate which funds this budget generates 6 additional funds, all of this so-called consumerism that the 7 Legislature has mandated. And the House Bill 3195 says you 8 put that on the front page of your budget if your budget is 9 not based upon either, one, the effective tax rate, or 10 something lower than that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here it is, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. You want all this language? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But that's essentially -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You, as the County Judge, 16 see that that's what we should do? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the House Bill 3195 requires 18 that it be on any budget you adopt. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is based upon anything higher 21 than the effective tax rate, which this is. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, would you -- would you amend 24 your motion to approve -- your base motion to approve the 25 budget to include the language as required by 3195? 9-28-07 51 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I will. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, let me think out loud as 3 to your second issue. It occurs to me that you may want to 4 offer an amendment to the motion. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: To the extent that it authorizes -- 7 I don't know whether -- did it authorize four or five Tahoes? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Four. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Four Tahoes, one Crown 11 Victoria. And I want to reverse that, and I think I'm 12 amending the proposed budget, is what I'm -- what I'm doing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure you're amending the 14 actual dollars, but you're amending what the expenditures 15 were authorized for. 'Cause my recollection is that instead 16 of -- the annual expenditure is the same; it's just four 17 years instead of three. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So I don't think there's a dollar 20 amount change. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But I think for purposes of policy, 23 you're certainly authorized to do that, and are you offering 24 that as an amendment? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. And, see, I think 9-28-07 52 1 it would be -- I think it would be very important to be 2 having this discussion with the County Auditor at this time. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that the budget 6 is -- I mean, I think I'm kind of in line with you. Just 7 kind of a little bit added to what you just said. The budget 8 dollars are fixed; what we're doing really is changing the 9 expenditures by line item, which will have an impact on the 10 reserves, basically. Or, you know, if all expenditures are 11 paid. But because we're not changing the total budget, the 12 tax rate or nothing, total dollars are going to be the same, 13 so it's an adjustment. It really seems to me what we're 14 doing is adopting the budget, and then a series of 15 amendments, or maybe one amendment to that budget that 16 changes certain line items. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In this instance -- in this 18 instance, the reality is, all we're doing is contracting 19 differently. The dollars are the same, and we're contracting 20 for a different component -- different lineup of vehicles, 21 which shortens the length of the contracts. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure the dollars are 23 exactly the same. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they're close, but if 9-28-07 53 1 you're a penny off, it's different. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're not going to be 3 greater than; they're going to be less than. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, the -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. If anything, it'll be 6 less. And I agree with you; I think it is going to be -- the 7 dollars are going to change some. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It could be greater if you go 9 to the three-year with still the five vehicles. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But I think the Commissioner's point 11 is well-made. Even if there's no change in the amount of 12 funding from this one-year budget, the current guidance from 13 the Court with regard to which vehicles are going to be 14 purchased -- they're going to be purchased during this budget 15 year, and that's going to set the mold for what's paid for 16 and how long it's paid for. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So I think it's very appropriate, 19 even if there's no change in the amount of expenditure for 20 this year's budget, the direction needs to be given as to 21 what you're authorizing to be purchased. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, it seems to me what 23 we're doing -- but -- and I am thinking out loud here. We 24 adopt the budget subject to specified amendments. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, not -- not 9-28-07 54 1 necessarily. I think that we want to, by my motion, amend 2 this budget right now. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- what I'm 4 saying is, I don't think we have to run a whole new run. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause we don't know this 7 number, and we're not going to know until we run a whole new 8 computer run. If you change it one penny -- what I'm trying 9 to say, is if we adopt the budget, then subject to budget 10 amendments, it's just changing the -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That might be a cleaner way. 12 Too bad we don't have an auditor to kind of direct us through 13 that. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we go to that point -- and 15 I would like to have my say first, but if we do go to that 16 point, why don't you leave that same dollar amount in there, 17 and then on the next Commissioners Court agenda or something, 18 just give me a court order ordering me to buy four Crown Vics 19 and one Tahoe, and that's done. Because this is just a 20 dollar amount. And that's what -- then that's what I would 21 have to purchase. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frankly, that's probably a 23 good approach. We just -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- issue a court order 9-28-07 55 1 instructing you -- for your auto purchases to be four of one 2 and one of the other. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we have other ones 4 probably that are going to come out, and I think that -- that 5 system doesn't work as well as amending -- I mean, passing 6 the budget, then doing some amendments right now that go 7 along with it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, this particular 9 item, though, I think that that would probably be the 10 appropriate way to do it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's fine. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I'm not -- my motion 13 doesn't have anything to do with adopting the budget right 14 now. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are you satisfied with the 16 procedure -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's been offered by the 19 Sheriff? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You wish to withdraw that amendment? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But what about the House 25 Bill? 9-28-07 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no, that needs to stay there 2 anyway. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is that in my motion? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, that's in your base motion. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it was. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My base motion. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We through with that one? I 9 have one more -- one more item. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Another issue that you want to 11 raise? Throw it out here. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Does this mean that on this 13 item, okay, as far as justifying and giving my explanation, 14 does that need to wait until the next Commissioner Court deal 15 before you issue the other -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the other way you can do it, 17 just pull it off the capital expenditure list. Then they 18 can't do it anyway. We can do that today, pull all his cars 19 off of it. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I -- you know, 21 Commissioners Court's not that far away. I'm not going to do 22 that. But I would like to -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not going to be on 24 vacation again next time? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I don't know when your 9-28-07 57 1 next court date is, but -- but I would like to have the 2 opportunity to address the Court on this issue before it's 3 adopted. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And you should have that 5 opportunity; I agree, Sheriff. Now, you had another issue 6 you wanted to throw out? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, the merit raise 8 issue. I am -- I have turned to page something -- Page 22. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which tab? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the District Clerk, 11 because that's the one I remember talking about merit raises. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which tab are you on, the 13 District Clerk? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, District Clerk. 15 Oh, I see the page number. Well, I still think the page is 16 22. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And I don't see -- I 19 don't see merit raises in here, number one. Where would I -- 20 where would I find a merit raise? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Those raises -- and, Ms. Hyde, 22 correct me if this is not correct. As a result of -- of some 23 discussions earlier, and from some guidance from the Court, 24 there were some specific matters with regard to the District 25 Clerk, the County Clerk, -- 9-28-07 58 1 MS. HYDE: Tax Assessor. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Tax Assessor dealing with 3 specified positions there, and those numbers are incorporated 4 in that last column that you see. They're already there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In part-time salaries, or -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Or deputy clerk salaries, right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or deputy clerk salaries. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: They're already there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it would be advances 10 in step and grade to take care of that. Is that the way 11 we're doing it? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In certain instances. 14 MS. HYDE: We're also putting it in the position 15 schedule so we can keep up with it, 'cause in the past there 16 wasn't any real documentation, so we -- you know, so we're 17 keeping it in the position schedule as well so that we know 18 someone got a job classification or a reclassification or 19 promotion, -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 MS. HYDE: -- et cetera. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, really, my point is -- 23 and I'm glad you pointed that out for me, let me know that it 24 is in the budget, and I'm glad it's there. I'm a merit raise 25 fan. But I think the way that we -- we go about it may be a 9-28-07 59 1 little bit flawed. If we -- I just believe that it needs to 2 come to Commissioners Court for final approval. I'll give 3 you an example. If one was given where it's -- it came out 4 from under the definition of merit raise, and an elected 5 official chose to just give it to their little friend -- and 6 I know we don't do that, of course, but if one did, and 7 someone got upset about it, well, that person that was upset 8 about it is not going to be upset at the elected official. 9 That person is going to come to -- here to this Court. So, 10 my whole issue is accountability. If -- you know, "merit" 11 means to me something that is above and beyond the call of 12 duty. In years past, it seems like the elected officials 13 have given a merit for a person that was basically doing 14 their job, you know, that they're committed and they're 15 dedicated to the County. Well, that's your job. That's what 16 we pay you -- that's what the taxpayers pay you to do. 17 That's not a merit. So I think, just for accountability 18 purposes, make things clean, that the elected official would 19 bring it back to the Commissioners Court and address it, kind 20 of like we do in the capital outlay thing and general 21 provisions, that the merit raises for each department shall 22 only be authorized and directed by Commissioners Court, 23 something like that. I just -- I think it's cleaner that way 24 if you -- if it was brought in here. I'm not -- I don't know 25 the employees; I don't know what kind of work they do, but to 9-28-07 60 1 make sure that it's a merit raise. That's my whole point. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Commissioner Baldwin? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your point is that even 4 though it may be built in, as it was explained, -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- before it's given or 7 implemented, the department head or elected official should 8 come and justify the reason why before they do it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To make sure that it's a 10 merit raise. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think to solve that, I -- 12 they get lost, in my mind, when we're going through this 13 whole process. We talk about them; they kind of disappear. 14 I think what would be helpful in future years is if we just 15 had a spreadsheet that would list them for -- whether it's an 16 elected -- I mean, a department head or an employee, and we 17 keep track of them. Then there's one page that says these 18 are the merit raises that we're doing, and make it part of 19 this final process, that we adopt one sheet that has them all 20 listed on it. I'm -- that might be a good idea. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may be a good idea. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That kind of lists that, and 23 keep track of where they're going and who's getting them and 24 kind of why. And -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: H.R. could provide that for 9-28-07 61 1 us. 2 MR. TROLINGER: And, Commissioner Baldwin, I 3 recall, in the District Clerk, that there was a discussion in 4 court -- since the District Clerk's not here, I thought I'd 5 speak up for her. She did have a discussion and presented to 6 y'all the reasoning behind the merit increase for her chief, 7 because she had gone above and beyond. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do recall the 9 conversation. I don't recall what that "above and beyond" 10 was. It was maybe working a little overtime and that kind of 11 thing. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Additional duties. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Before and after hours, working 14 weekends, more responsibility. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Additional duties above and 16 beyond. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Much like our County 18 Treasurer has gone for years and years and years. It was 19 her -- she comes in on -- when she was in the Auditor's 20 office, and now in the Treasurer's office, she comes in on 21 weekends, spends weekends in here, leaves here after -- way 22 after dark to get the job done. That's what she's paid for, 23 so to me, that is -- that's not a -- I'm sorry I'm picking on 24 you, Mindy. But that's my whole point. That's what the 25 taxpayers pay you for, is to get the job done. And because 9-28-07 62 1 you stay in here 80 hours a week, goofy as you are for doing 2 that, you're getting the job done, and that's what's they pay 3 you for. I mean, I don't see that that's above and beyond 4 the call of duty. It's part of the job. Rusty spends more 5 than 40 hours on his job. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Williams says I'm on vacation 7 all the time. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I just asked -- I just 9 asked the question. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing I would try and 11 refresh your memory about in the merit rises, especially with 12 most of the departments in the county, back when we went 13 through all the mess with pay scales and pay schedules and 14 all that, and because law enforcement and Road and Bridge, I 15 think, get the educational raises, you know, I don't give 16 merit raises at all. Because the way we did that, and the 17 way it was really meant to work -- and I'll take David for an 18 example. And what Buster is saying now, David made a case 19 for us one time that was in a lot of ways above and beyond, 20 okay, and ended up on Oprah on it, or whatever you want to 21 say, for David. But David was on duty that morning; he took 22 a call, and that's the way it went. If he wouldn't have been 23 on duty that morning, another deputy would take that call. I 24 would hope that they would have been well enough trained to 25 do the same thing. He handled it perfectly. But the way 9-28-07 63 1 everything was set up, and why you had 12 steps in your pay 2 scale was that if law enforcement got all the educational 3 raises that they can get in a 20-year period, okay, it equals 4 four. That's the most they can have. No matter what else 5 they have, the most they're going to get is four steps. The 6 longevity every County employees gets, and what that -- what 7 the idea back then was -- and another department head could 8 give any one of their employees up to four steps or four 9 merit raises in a 20-year period. That way, at the end of a 10 20-year career with this county, every employee had the same 11 ability to end up at that Step 12 in that schedule, so that 12 nobody really, you know, could be allowed more than the other 13 one, depending on what position they were in. And that's the 14 way that was adopted, so that regardless of what it was, in 15 the 20-year period, each person could get four merit raises. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I tend to agree with 17 Commissioner Baldwin on this overall issue. I think that the 18 -- to me, an employee that's doing -- going above and beyond 19 what's required of their job should get moved on to a higher 20 -- should get promoted, basically, to a new job where there's 21 more pay and more responsibility, and that tends to be what 22 happens. And I think most of the -- what we call merit 23 raises that we've given in recent years, or probably the last 24 two years anyway, are really related more to increase in job 25 responsibilities, as opposed to leaving someone the same, 9-28-07 64 1 just giving them a merit raise 'cause they did -- they've 2 been -- you know, it's been a change in responsibility that's 3 usually been the basis of most of the responsibility. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that whenever 5 somebody's responsibilities are increased, you don't call 6 that a merit; you call that -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly the way it 8 ought to be, because merit is the most subjective of all. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I don't -- I don't 12 favor the subjectiveness of that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't think we've done 14 many merit raises, if any, in the past couple of years. I 15 think we've pretty much -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I think there's just 17 two that we discussed. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But even -- there was different 19 responsibilities added for -- 20 MS. HYDE: There's seven total. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's seven? 22 MS. HYDE: There were seven total that we all 23 discussed, and they're all job responsibility changes. And 24 the good news is that they're documented, so these people are 25 going to be held accountable for those job descriptions. So 9-28-07 65 1 it can't be that, you know, every -- every year we turn in -- 2 you know, somebody else has just done this or they do this or 3 they work a little bit extra. And I think that these folks 4 are going to tell you that I'm not real fond of -- of merit, 5 because they are very subjective. If -- if you only have 6 three or four employees, how can you not be subjective when 7 you're asking, "Did you do a good job?" "Well, I came to 8 work every day." 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 MS. HYDE: You know? So -- but they are very hard 11 to be -- be non-subjective or non-biased. But if you're 12 looking at the true job description and you're adding 13 responsibility and not just fluff into a job description, 14 insuring that these people are cross-trained, and that's what 15 these guys are committed to, and made sure that it's 16 happening, then, yes, I think they deserve something for a 17 job responsibility change. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 19 MS. HYDE: But then we have to -- you know, like, 20 there's something to hold these people accountable when we do 21 that. If we don't, then all we're doing is just giving money 22 away, and I'm not for that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm not either. Well, 24 I'm not against -- I'm not against merit raises. You know, 25 in its purest form, I think it's a great idea -- 9-28-07 66 1 MS. HYDE: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to reward someone for 3 going above and beyond the call of duty. But just because an 4 employee is -- comes to work and does their job every day, I 5 mean, hell, that's not a merit. You know, I want to avoid 6 that. And I don't want an elected official to take a ding 7 over something like that. If anybody's going to take a ding, 8 it should be these guys sitting at this table right here, 9 because we're going to get it anyway. So, we might -- 10 accountability probably needs to be here, and we need to sign 11 off on it. That's my point. I'm trying -- not trying to 12 take anybody's power or control in any way. 13 MS. HYDE: One thing that we are going to try to do 14 this year, Commissioner, is we did listen to you, and you've 15 mentioned this before. What we found this year -- this is my 16 first year going through the whole budget. And what we're 17 looking at is -- is requesting, later on in the year and as 18 we go forward, that during the budget process, by July 31st, 19 the positions are locked and loaded. If you are looking to 20 promote, to change job descriptions, those things need to be 21 done prior to us starting these budget workshops, 'cause then 22 they tend to get slid in there and you don't even realize 23 what's going on. And that way, if we have it all up in -- 24 before the budget period starts, then everybody knows, where 25 are we going? What are we looking at? And you guys will 9-28-07 67 1 have much more documentation so that it can be approved prior 2 to. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Whatever. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We won't be chasing the little 5 things and working internally on departments. 6 MS. HYDE: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's an excellent idea. I 8 really do. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The way the agenda item is styled, 11 my thinking is that if there are any changes to be made to 12 the authorized expenditures in what's before us, that we 13 probably need to get those out on the table as part and 14 parcel of the process of adopting these budget -- this 15 particular budget, so I think it would be appropriate if 16 there's going to be any change in the expenditures that's 17 different from what's specified in here, we ought to throw 18 those out now as budget amendments to be considered as part 19 of the actual adoption. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. I 21 apologize for taking up the Court's time. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If there was going to be a change in 25 the amount of expenditure -- 9-28-07 68 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- right off the top -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But there isn't, I agree. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But I don't know. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On this first one, then, that 6 should be a budget amendment. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? First one what? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On cars. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think the amount is 11 going to change. I think the direction that the Sheriff is 12 going to get -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as to what's he's authorized to 15 purchase, and I think he's on notice that that very well may 16 change. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing that I would 18 say is, the amount would definitely go down if we still stay 19 at four years; there's no ands, ifs, or buts. But when we 20 make those switches and drop a whole year off the payment, I 21 just have not checked to whether that amount would go up or 22 down. I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The amount, to me, was -- the 24 amount you proposed in the budget process would be the same. 25 The only difference was it added an extra year when you did 9-28-07 69 1 the Tahoes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that is correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That was my understanding. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I remember. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But the amount of difference is not 7 going to be much, if at all. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It shouldn't be much at all. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It won't be any different 10 this year. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this, though, 12 Rusty. Can you wait till the next meeting before you get 13 authorization? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If this Court tells me to 15 wait, I don't have much choice. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, I'm trying to make a 17 point here. Or should we call one of our special meetings? 18 'Cause I wouldn't want any lawyer to go without getting a 19 salary -- or getting money. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only problem I have 21 waiting, and this is what we all face this time of year. In 22 years past, even before now, we would send those dealerships 23 that have the state bids a letter saying it is our 24 anticipation, you know, that this is what's going to happen. 25 We've done that all the years, so that they're going ahead 9-28-07 70 1 and preparing cars. Otherwise, you get D.P.S., you get 2 everybody in the state getting cars. I did not do that this 3 year, 'cause we felt maybe we could do it Monday. Now it's 4 going to be put off a little bit later. All right. And it's 5 just going to be where we fall in line with that -- with 6 every agency in the state trying to get cars, and that could 7 -- yeah, it could hold them up as long as, you know, six, 8 eight months. I don't know. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're only eight 10 days removed from getting a court order. You're not 14 days 11 away; you're eight days away. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I mean, I'll do whatever -- I 13 just can't say, you know, if all the agencies call in Monday 14 and Tuesday, that -- in making their car orders, 'cause their 15 budgets are -- are now in effect, you know, it can -- it can 16 put you in line for trying to get -- 17 MR. TROLINGER: I've got another point for you, 18 Sheriff. Is this financing as originally planned? Or is the 19 Auditor going to change it to the capital financing? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The cars weren't going to 21 be -- because of the payments, they weren't in that. This 22 was financing as originally planned. Now, also, we've had -- 23 Fed's dropped interest rates just a little bit. I don't know 24 if that will affect this, but you have to also remember, we 25 got these bids in July, so they could actually change, too, 9-28-07 71 1 on our interest rate we get on the leasing. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you have time to 3 perfect all that information before you come back. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure that's what he intends to 5 do. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll give you a total outcome 7 when I come back. Now, can I make one comment on what could 8 make a budget change? Probably won't. I'm just going to put 9 it out there. In the jail budget this year, what happened 10 was you cut me one jail position and gave me a training 11 sergeant, 'cause that -- I had asked for a training sergeant. 12 So, the number of people did not change, but I did actually 13 get cut a jailer trying to get that training sergeant, get my 14 training back up. I would just throw it out there. Training 15 sergeant works every shift. It's a whole different -- 16 because the hours and on-the-job training, and the training 17 program for one new jailer is 16 weeks long. I hate to lose 18 that other jail position. I can make it work if that's the 19 way the Court wishes, and it just really makes it hard to 20 keep with my -- my stuff. And I would ask one last time for 21 that position back. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's 29,818. And I hate -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think this goes to the July 1 25 deadline issue that the H.R. Director was talking about. 9-28-07 72 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, this is -- no, this is 2 what y'all cut in the budget, what you did. It's not the 3 July 1; it's what's been done in the budget process up 4 through the last budget year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Had this entire issue been discussed 6 both ways, based upon what was submitted as of July 1, I 7 think we would have been in a position to really sort through 8 this a little bit better, rather than doing it here at the 9 11th hour on the last day. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I agree. And it had been 11 discussed; it's just I was cut, and I'm coming back trying to 12 say please rethink it before we adopt it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Does any member of the Court 14 wish to offer any amendments to the motion which -- to 15 approve this budget as -- as is on the table now, which would 16 change any expenditure that's set forth in this particular 17 budget? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. What do you got? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Again, the library. I think 21 we need to increase the funding for the library back to what 22 it was last year. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it last year? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 443. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 9-28-07 73 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 443,000. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's in the budget? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 400 is what's in there. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to agree with you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't give them 6 exactly what they asked for. They wanted 453, I believe. 7 But being that the City has not given us too many 8 alternatives in the funding request on fire protection -- the 9 funding demand, I should say; it's not a request -- to 10 increase that by $50,000 this year, and we have reduced 11 Animal Control demand on them or request for funding by about 12 15,000 less than they paid last year, showing good faith on 13 our end to do what's right, -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- in my opinion. And I will 16 say that the library is a very important thing, and that we 17 did get documentation that was asked for. It's one of the 18 few things we're able to spend money on that is a positive, 19 that is not spent on criminals and trials and all kinds of 20 things, law enforcement. Which is not a bad thing; it's just 21 that we don't get to fund many things that are positive for 22 taxpayers, and I think this is. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We should fund it at that 25 level this year. It's not at all what they wanted, but I 9-28-07 74 1 think it's within reason. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 3 percent. And the -- and another way to look at it is, we're 4 spending almost half a million dollars of taxpayers' money on 5 something that we don't own. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we see the benefit of 8 it, and choose to go this route. Now, are we going to 9 increase next year, or are we going to stay -- get back on 10 our plan of decreasing a little bit every year, so the City 11 can start taking over their own property? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that we -- this will 13 be the last year of this level of funding. And I think that 14 we -- in acting, I believe, the way we should, we shouldn't 15 reduce it a tremendous amount in any one year. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Like the City increased the 18 fire protection contract this year an enormous amount. You 19 know, I would say that something that would be reasonable 20 would be maybe 10,000 a year reduction rather than $40,000 or 21 $50,000 a year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I will support the 23 change. I don't disagree with you at all. But I think in 24 this whole debate, what goes unsaid is we're always -- we're 25 always greeted with the thought that the sky is falling if we 9-28-07 75 1 change the amount of money that we appropriate for the 2 library. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's not true, because 5 there is another option, and the other option is that 6 whatever the percentage is that we put up, the City can 7 increase its percentage accordingly. If we do 40, they can 8 do 60. If we do 45, they can do 55. That always goes 9 unsaid, and we end up being cast as the villain in this whole 10 process. I would like to see us, during the course of the 11 year, immediately after the budget, discuss this thing as 12 quickly as possible and determine what our position's going 13 to be moving forward. I know we can't lock it in for 14 budgetary purposes beyond one year, but we can say this is 15 our anticipated approach to this over the next five years, 16 and memorialize that in a letter to the City and say, "Be 17 prepared, this is what we're going to propose to do year 18 after year for the next five years." That way everybody's on 19 notice. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is kind of what we did 21 last year. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except nobody took notice. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the -- the upcoming 25 year is a chance to do just what you're saying, and also to 9-28-07 76 1 put them on notice of things that may be changing in the 2 policies that we adopt on fire protection as well. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also, if they want -- if 5 the City wants to base their amount they're charging us for 6 fire protection on per capita rather than on per call, then 7 we need to do the same thing with Animal Control. You know, 8 Animal Control is based on -- on an amount of -- amount of 9 percentage that -- you know, the animals that are -- that are 10 gathered in the city and in the county. But they don't want 11 to do that same thing for fire calls. They may only make one 12 or two calls a year, but they want to up our contribution to 13 them to do it, which to me is not justified. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with all that. I mean, 15 all said, I think that the -- I see Mr. Lipscomb in the 16 audience, as he frequently is, and I would encourage him to 17 let the -- our friends at the City, members of the City 18 Council, be aware that we're not reluctant to fund the 19 library, but we're not going to do it unless it's 20 participating -- you know, we're an equal partner and part of 21 it, the decision on it. I don't like the 50/50 split that we 22 have right now; I don't think that's right. I guess I was 23 the original one that came up with the idea of reducing it, 24 you know. I have no problem with funding it at the current 25 level this year, but I really think that I'd like to see kind 9-28-07 77 1 of what Commissioner Baldwin said, or Commissioner Williams 2 said, is a plan that we send over there that we can stand by. 3 And I think you're exactly right on the fire protection. If 4 they want to -- it needs to be -- you know, it's like -- 5 based on their logic on fire protection, we should do Animal 6 Control based on, "Well, you may need, you know, two extra 7 officers this year; therefore, we're going to hire them and 8 bill them to you." And that's basically what they've done on 9 the fire protection side to us. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, your amendment, then, 11 is to -- to increase the expenditure that's presently in this 12 proposed budget of $400,000 to $443,667, same amount as last 13 year? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I have a second to that 16 amendment? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a second. Do we have other 19 amendments that we want to pitch out here? 20 MS. HYDE: Can you repeat that number, Judge? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 443,667. 22 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last year's number -- 24 current year's number. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further discussion on the 9-28-07 78 1 amendment that's proposed? We'll vote first on the 2 amendment. All in favor of the amendment relating to the 3 expenditure for the library being increased, signify by 4 raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry, and that 9 amendment is approved. Now we're back to the base budget. 10 Any further question or discussion on that particular motion? 11 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why don't 17 we go ahead and take about a 15-minute break. That will give 18 our reporter an opportunity to... We'll be in recess. 19 (Recess taken from 10:34 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. Any 22 further action that we need to consider in connection with 23 Item 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 24 adopt FY '07-'08 Kerr County budget? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. You may -- this may 9-28-07 79 1 solve a lot of things, gentlemen. If we go with one Tahoe 2 and four Crown Vics, it's not going to come in at 57,000. In 3 looking through what I did have, okay, the only way that we 4 can do it and stay at the 57,543.51 -- you know, that quote 5 was good through August the 31st, so I don't know what little 6 changes there are -- would be five Crown Vics for three 7 years. This is the only way that budget worked from what we 8 had gotten before. And if that's the consensus of what this 9 Court wants me to do, then we'll forget the Tahoes. I think 10 there's been some misunderstanding about the Tahoes. I think 11 people think we're just trying to get fancy vehicles. That's 12 farthest from it. You know, I told y'all, and y'all know, I 13 had a raccoon tear out a radiator, because the Crown Vics sit 14 very low to the ground. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, as I told you -- as I 16 told you in my office a while ago, that is the perception of 17 many people. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what -- I'm trying to 19 get good, reliable vehicles. Crown Vics get tore up real 20 easy by deer. They get -- they don't do water at all because 21 of the air intake. They sit too low to the ground. There's 22 a lot of roads that are not paved roads in this county that 23 we have to respond to, but going one Crown Vic for a 24 24-hour-a-day Sheriff's office will not solve our problem. 25 By the time we finally get enough on each shift or 9-28-07 80 1 something -- or one on each shift to really cover the 2 problem, the first ones are going to be wore out. So, if 3 this Court would rather me stay with Crown Vics instead of 4 Tahoes, then they're -- you know, we had to get one in and 5 out of a place on the -- on a flatbed wrecker a while back, 6 just 'cause you couldn't drive it in or out 'cause of water. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much would it cost for 8 four Crown Vics and one Tahoe? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't gotten those 10 numbers, but it's going to be more than that, 'cause your 11 Crown Vic -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand it's more than 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't -- why don't -- 15 aren't we going to do it at the next meeting? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was just trying to keep 17 y'all from having to come back. If you want me to do five 18 Crown Vics, we'll do five Crown Vics at three years. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not coming back. 20 We're going to come back at a regular meeting on the 8th. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I meant the regular meeting. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in preference of going to 23 the Tahoes, but I don't think I have the votes to go with me. 24 I think the reason -- the problem is a perception issue, and 25 the problem is that people hear Tahoe, and think they're 9-28-07 81 1 fancy vehicles. They don't understand that a Tahoe is the 2 same as a Suburban. I mean, if you said four Suburbans, you 3 probably wouldn't have the problem. Four Jimmys. But the 4 issue -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Suburbans are bigger. I don't 6 want the big Suburbans. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, but whatever the 8 comparable thing is, the Chevrolet model or the GMC model, 9 the reality is -- we just bought one -- the GMC's are cheaper 10 than the Chevrolet models like this. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I guess because of the 12 budgeting and because with the budget at 57,000, okay, and 13 not changing that much, in trying to cut it down to the three 14 years, that's why it is still a budget deal. Because the 15 other thing that that does not include is your grill guards, 16 where the other ones did it. It does not include a lot of 17 the other equipment that the Tahoes came with, so there would 18 be a budget impact of greater if you tried to stay with three 19 years instead of the four years. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to come back to us with 21 all of the relevant numbers, including the equipment numbers, 22 at our October 8 meeting? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can give you every bit of 24 that, but it won't be within the same amount. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll have to do a budget 9-28-07 82 1 amendment. But my preference is, from your standpoint, I'd 2 either go with what we originally talked about, the four 3 Tahoes and a Crown Vic, or five Crown Vics. I see no point 4 in getting one Tahoe. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't either. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, it's -- we can 7 discuss that at the next meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Give me that back. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on Item 4 dealing with the 12 '07-'08 budget? 13 MR. STANTON: I just had a question, and I talked 14 to Mr. Trolinger about it during the break. But is there an 15 expected time period that we have to look for as far as for 16 the capital outlay items, before they can be purchased? If 17 they do the financing issue? You know, how long that period 18 would last, or how long it would take? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know what the timeline is on 20 that, Mr. Stanton. I know the Auditor's looking at trying to 21 package those things up, but I'm -- I haven't heard any 22 estimate of timeline of when. You're talking about the -- 23 the extended financing on those outside-the-budget capital 24 outlay items? 25 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 9-28-07 83 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. No, I don't have a timeline. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she had mentioned one time 3 it would be around January -- first of the year, January time 4 frame. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I thought. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall that, but it's good. 7 MR. TROLINGER: And I spoke with the Auditor 8 Wednesday about this, and essentially got the same answer. 9 Three months. And I wanted to give y'all a -- I don't know, 10 advance notice that some of the items are critical, and have 11 been moved to the general fund, such as the County Attorney's 12 laptop for DVD's. But there are other items that we'll want 13 to move forward with, and the Auditor mentioned something 14 along the lines of a court order that would allow us to 15 expend in advance some of the funding for capital outlay 16 items for planning. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tell the Auditor to put it on 18 the next agenda. 19 MR. TROLINGER: And it will need to be on the next 20 agenda. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Anything else on 22 Item 4? Let's move to Item 5; consider, discuss, and adopt 23 the proposed FY 2007-08 tax rate for Kerr County. It's been 24 suggested that -- that the tax rate be adopted by separate 25 motions for each of the elements of the tax rate, that being 9-28-07 84 1 debt service rate, M & O rate, Road and Bridge rate, and 2 then, of course, the total tax rate, which is an accumulation 3 of all of those. In addition, the suggestion was made that 4 there be individual roll call votes on each of those. I 5 think each of the members of the Court has a copy of -- of 6 that information ahead of them -- in front of them. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that the 8 debt service rate be set at .0438 per hundred. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 11 debt service rate for Kerr County for FY '07 be set for -- at 12 .0438. Any question or discussion on the motion? All right, 13 we'll take a roll call vote on the motion. Commissioner 1? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Aye. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair votes aye. We have any 22 further motions? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that the M & O tax 24 rate for Kerr County be set at .3154 per $100 assessed value. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9-28-07 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second that 2 the Kerr County tax M & O tax rate for 2007 be set at .3154 3 per 100. Any question or discussion on the motion? We'll 4 take a roll call vote on the motion. Commissioner 1? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Aye. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair votes aye. Further motions? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion we set the 14 Road and Bridge tax rate at .0304. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second that 17 the Road and Bridge tax rate for 2007 in Kerr County be set 18 at .0304. Any question or discussion on that motion? All in 19 favor of the motion -- I'm going to go by roll call. 20 Commissioner 1? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 9-28-07 86 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Aye. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair votes aye. All those motions 4 passing unanimously. It is somewhat -- somewhat elementary, 5 I suppose, that the total tax rate for 2007 in Kerr County is 6 .3896. Do I hear a motion to that effect? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 10 the total 2007 tax rate in Kerr County to be .3896 per 100 11 valuation. Any question or discussion on the motion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. What was that 13 number, the present year? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The current year, it was that same 15 number. The total rate was that same number. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we are not raising the 17 tax rate. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In any way. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, we are not. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 23 on that motion? Take a roll call vote. Commissioner 1? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 9-28-07 87 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 3? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Aye. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Chair votes aye. Any further 7 business to come before us this morning, gentlemen? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is Buzzie's open? 9 MS. HYDE: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Not yet. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No? 12 MS. HYDE: Not yet. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keep praying, men. Keep 14 praying. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further business? We'll stand 16 adjourned. 17 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:07 a.m.) 18 - - - - - - - - - - 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-28-07 88 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of October, 8 2007. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-28-07