1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, December 3, 2007 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 3, 2007 2 PAGE 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt Kerr County Employees Health Benefits 4 Plan for 2008 and establish employee/retiree contribution rates for dependents and retirees 3 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 6 information and alternative elections received from TCDRS on retirement funding and take 7 appropriate action to finalize TCDRS plan and elections for Kerr County for 2008 26 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 9 request to use portion of Courthouse grounds and parking area on early morning of December 11, 10 2007, for Cowboy Breakfast in connection with local area and Hill Country District Junior 11 Livestock show activities 32 12 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to confirm plan for issuance of County cell phones 13 to County officials and employees and termination of reimbursement by County for individual cell 14 phones and/or cell phone use 35 15 5.1 Reports from Commissioners 55 16 --- Adjourned 73 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, December 3, 2007, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 special Commissioners Court meeting posted for this time and 9 date, Monday, December the 3rd, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is a bit 10 past that time now. The first item on the agenda is to 11 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt Kerr 12 County Employees Health Benefits Plan for 2008 and establish 13 employee retiree contribution rates for dependents and 14 retirees. And, of course, as the Court knows, this matter is 15 a matter that we address every year, and we're going with a 16 new provider, since Mutual of Omaha is no longer in the 17 business beginning January 1. So, Mr. Looney, we'll turn it 18 over to you at this time, our consultant. 19 MR. LOONEY: Judge, good morning. Commissioners, 20 good morning. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Morning. 22 MR. LOONEY: We went through the process, you know, 23 two to three weeks ago, and during that time frame, it was 24 prior to the November 1st period -- or prior to November when 25 a lot of the information that the -- the stop loss 12-3-07 4 1 underwriters needed was not available to them, because they 2 wanted it in a timely manner towards the end of the year. 3 So, we took all of the information we had on the managed care 4 information that we had and produced that and gave it back to 5 the people who bid on the rebid process, and that information 6 was given to them so that we could develop fixed and final 7 rates on behalf of the County. In doing so, we went back and 8 also reviewed all of the rates and rating structures of the 9 rebid process. The original bids were -- were filed away, 10 destroyed, whatever, and we started over again. We lost a 11 bidder during the process, but the rest of the bidders pretty 12 much resubmitted bids, and then with the managed care 13 information, were able to give us fixed and final numbers 14 going forward with 2008. That information is in the 15 spreadsheet that you have. We looked at several things. One 16 was the fact that we had a setup fee, in many cases, where 17 the companies wanted to initially have fees for setup. Then 18 we had fees for the runoff claims that we were looking for to 19 determine what -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's a runoff claim? 21 MR. LOONEY: Runoff claims are the claims that 22 Mutual of Omaha would have been responsible for had the case 23 carried forward into next year, those claims that were 24 incurred in November and December that will not be submitted 25 until January or February for payment. We wanted to find out 12-3-07 5 1 if there was a manner in which our new administrator would be 2 able to administer those claims on a runoff basis for us. 3 And as long as we maintain the same physician network with 4 the P.P.O. network, then we wouldn't have any problem moving 5 forward. Mutual of Omaha did want to charge a fee for that, 6 and so we looked at -- from the bids that were offered, what 7 that fee might be in relationship to the new carrier. 8 After we examined all the information, we got all 9 of the requests in for what they call lasers. A laser is an 10 additional fee that is charged in relationship to any one 11 given specific individual or individuals that increases the 12 deductible that the County would be responsible for for 13 payment of a claim. Our current deductible is $50,000, so a 14 laser would mean that one individual that had a serious 15 medical history, that they potentially would charge an 16 additional fee for the losses incurred by that one 17 individual; they would raise their deductible. After the 18 examination that was done by the different underwriters, two 19 of the companies came back and requested lasers, one on one 20 individual, increasing the liability to 150,000. The other 21 -- another carrier came back with what they call an 22 aggregated specific on two individuals, which, again, 23 potentially increases the liability up to possibly an 24 additional 150,000. The recommendation that we're going to 25 make to the FARA third-party administrator has no lasers. 12-3-07 6 1 There's no lasers, no additional deductibles required in any 2 of the individuals that are currently insured under the plan. 3 They have also agreed to waive all expenses for any setup 4 fees that might be incurred. They've also agreed to waive 5 any expenses that were incurred as a result of paying runoff 6 claims. So, there's no charges for the runoff claim payment 7 and there's no additional charge for setup fees. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The fees are waived, but the 9 services remain the same? 10 MR. LOONEY: Services remain the same. You see by 11 the numbers that -- that not only from the fact that they 12 have no lasers, but their overall expense ratio with maximum 13 aggregate attachment point is the most competitive of the 14 bids that we received. That's the million, 893 number. It's 15 at the very bottom of the page, on the second page under the 16 FARA, F-A-R-A, heading. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- in evaluation of these, 18 how do you rank the total fixed versus expected versus max 19 number? I mean, what's the -- I guess, the criteria as to 20 what's the most important out of those three numbers? I 21 mean, I don't know -- to me, it doesn't seem intuitive that 22 the maximum is always the best measure or the only measure 23 you look at. You have to look at all three of them kind of 24 together. 25 MR. LOONEY: Well, we look at all three of them 12-3-07 7 1 together. The fixed cost is an important -- if there's a 2 huge variation in the fixed cost, then if it's added back 3 into or reduced from the maximum aggregate cost, you have to 4 kind of look at those in combination. But the fixed cost for 5 FARA in this situation is one of the lowest fixed costs. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the last time we went 7 through these, I think -- talking about the agents, is Don 8 Wallace the agent in all these? 9 MR. LOONEY: No. There was one -- one company that 10 bid without agents, but I understand y'all received a letter 11 that said that if you wanted to include the agent, that there 12 was additional expense? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They said it would be 2,800 a 14 month from Entrust; they'd be glad to use Don Wallace. What 15 -- I guess, has the function of the agent changed since we 16 started the H.R. Department? Maybe I should ask Eva that 17 more than you. 18 MR. LOONEY: I was going to say, that's not a 19 question that I... 20 MS. HYDE: As far as -- I'm not -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm -- I mean, what is 22 the agent doing to earn his keep? 23 MS. HYDE: Well, -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or maybe I should ask Don that. 25 MS. HYDE: -- they do quite a bit. Number one, as 12-3-07 8 1 the agent of record, I'm not an insurance agent. When we do 2 the RFP's, the agents have the ability to send out for bids, 3 but also after the fact, if we're having a problem with any 4 insurance problems, if we can't get an answer, if we can't 5 get information, then we're able to go through the agent, and 6 the agent can put additional pressure on the insurance 7 company to get us -- get us the information we need. And 8 this year he was pretty darned important, because there was a 9 lot of times that we couldn't get information. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, he's acting as a -- I 11 guess, the County's representative in dealing with the stop 12 loss carrier? 13 MS. HYDE: At times. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the -- 15 MR. LOONEY: During this particular time frame, 16 there's going to be a lot more emphasis on the agent's 17 activity as a result of the fact that we're having to do a 18 totally new enrollment with a new company. There will be a 19 lot of one-on-one action involved. As a matter of fact, one 20 of the things I wanted to -- because we're having the new 21 carrier pay the claims on the runoff base, there's going to 22 be about a 60- to 90-day period during which the employees 23 and the local providers need to be made aware of the fact 24 that this transition is taking place, because there may have 25 been claims submitted to Mutual of Omaha under an old -- what 12-3-07 9 1 will become an old number, an old classification. It may 2 have to be resubmitted to the new carrier for payment 3 purposes, and we need to make sure we get that communication 4 link specific -- you know, very specifically available to 5 employees so that in case claims are held up or, in some 6 cases, denied by Mutual of Omaha, that the individuals will 7 understand that they need to reestablish that claim process 8 with the new carrier, and then we pay it on the same basis of 9 the claims that were incurred by Mutual of Omaha. So, it's a 10 communication process. It's going to be very important and 11 the agent's going to be very much involved in that process. 12 The numbers that you see back in June and July, I 13 had projected where I felt we were going to be for 2008 and 14 used some of those numbers for budget purposes. The budget 15 numbers that you have set do not have to be changed in 16 relationship to this proposal, as it falls under that budget 17 number that you all set back in -- when you set your budgets. 18 Now, there are a couple of other situations, and one is the 19 employee contribution level is not required to be changed 20 based on this proposal, so the employees do not have to have 21 an additional premium payment going forward in 2008. The 22 premiums that they're currently contributing to the plan are 23 sufficient to meet the funding requirements of the program. 24 There are some changes that I feel should be made 25 administratively to the plan, and this is the time to do 12-3-07 10 1 those administrative changes. One is that you're currently 2 having benefits paid to dependent children as a result of 3 pregnancies where the -- the children are still at home, 4 under whatever the dependent category is. They are not 5 independent and out on their own, but you are paying 6 maternity expenses and pregnancy expenses for dependent 7 children. I think that should be removed from the plan. 8 The other situation is just timing for new 9 employees. Currently, we have a period of time -- I believe 10 it's the 1st of the month following 30 days of employment. 11 We'd like to change that to the 1st of the month following 60 12 days of employment, to give a little more time to determine 13 whether or not that person is actually going to be a longer 14 term employee for the county. It's just 30 days additional, 15 and it gives a little more time frame for you to determine -- 16 or y'all to determine whether the employee's going to stick 17 around with you. The other thing is, I'd like to change the 18 definition for dependent child to be to the age of 24, but 19 after the age of 19, be required to be attending an 20 additional college or other training for educational 21 purposes. Some licensed school or other qualified 22 educational institution up to the age of 24, rather than an 23 open-ended dependent coverage up to the age of 24. 24 The other circumstance I'm concerned about is that, 25 as we talked about earlier at one of the meetings, one of the 12-3-07 11 1 areas that we have a lot of -- of potential expense is our 2 prescription drug program. When I look at the prescription 3 drug program to determine who the -- the benefactors are, a 4 lot of the benefactors are your retired employees that you 5 have on the plan. You have not that many, but you have 6 retired employees on the plan, and their premium for that 7 benefit has not changed in about three years. We requested a 8 change a year ago, but it didn't happen. So, benefit plan. 9 And they're also paying $105 per month for their dependent if 10 their dependent is also on the plan. So, their premium 11 allocation is pretty low for the -- for the benefit structure 12 that we got in place for them. Plus that prescription 13 benefit program is -- if they're over the age of 65, then 14 they're utilizing that substantially because Medicare has 15 that Part D, which doesn't cover prescription drugs very 16 well, so there's a lot of medications flowing through that 17 process. The recommendation is to go ahead and increase that 18 premium that's required. We asked for $125, I believe, 19 either last year or the year before, and it didn't happen, so 20 now we're asking that to move up to $135 a month, which is 21 still a very reasonable fee to be paying for the benefits 22 that they're receiving. That 135 -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From 105 to 135? 24 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. The other portion of that 25 is that, you know, we have a few of the retirees that have 12-3-07 12 1 spouses that -- that are much younger, and so they're not 2 paying the same -- they're paying the retiree fee, and they 3 should be paying, I think, the same fee that any employee is 4 paying to receive the benefits for spousal coverage, so that 5 the same contribution will be made. Now, again, the 6 recommendation is that you've already got retirees and 7 retiree spouses that are paying that set fee. Leave that in 8 place, that -- move it to $135, grandfather those people into 9 that benefit, so that the spousal coverage is not -- but 10 future retirees, that they -- then the spouse will be paying 11 the same that any employee will be required to pay for the 12 spousal coverage. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that amount is? 14 MS. HYDE: For right now, the amount is -- I didn't 15 think fast enough. For a spouse, it's $240 per month. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's going from -- 17 MR. LOONEY: Well, it's -- right now, if they're an 18 active employee, that's what they're paying. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And retirees are paying 20 how much for their spouse? 105? 21 MR. LOONEY: 105 right now. So, I'm saying 22 grandfather those people; don't change that for those 23 individuals. But for future retirees, have them pay the same 24 spousal fee, actually, that they were paying as an active 25 employee. 12-3-07 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't change current spouses and 2 employee -- current retirees and spouses, except raise that 3 from 105 to 135? 4 MR. LOONEY: Except move it to 135. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And future retirees and spouses 6 would be under the regular rate schedule? 7 MR. LOONEY: No, the 135. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Employees -- 9 MR. LOONEY: The 135 rate for the retiree. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 MR. LOONEY: And then -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Spouse would be at the regular 13 dependent's spouse rate. 14 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is the impact right now 16 of a $30 increase per month per retired employees? 17 MR. LOONEY: I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand 18 the question. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. How much would that 20 impact the budget? How many -- how many retirees are there? 21 MR. LOONEY: We only have about 7 or 8 retirees. 22 MS. HYDE: There's 12. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Twelve retirees at 30 bucks a 24 month, basically. $360 a month. 25 MR. LOONEY: Right. 12-3-07 14 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 4,000-something a year. I 2 don't know. 3 MS. HYDE: The problem is that -- let me start 4 again. In 1994, the cost for a retiree's insurance was $387 5 a month. In 1995, it went down to 105. It's been at 105 6 since 1995. It's never increased. Last year, Commissioners 7 Court said it needed to go to 125, and it didn't go there. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 9 MS. HYDE: It was not put into place by the 10 Treasurer's office. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Recall the Rangers. Oh, my 12 god. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's not that much of a 14 budget impact, but I think they need to probably make the 15 change. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, I just wanted to 17 know how many there were. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't really make that much 19 difference, I mean, in the big picture of the total budget, 20 but -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The definition of a dependent 22 basically conforms to I.R.S. -- 23 MR. LOONEY: I.R.S. guidelines. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Does I.R.S. now go to 24 instead of 25 23? I was thinking it went to 23. I see a nodding of the 12-3-07 15 1 head back there. 2 MS. SMITH: State of Texas -- the state of Texas is 3 age 24. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there -- in any of these 6 proposals, are there other fees than the bottom three 7 numbers? Is there something else that we're going to be hit 8 with? I mean, is the -- like, the FARA recommendation is 9 1,893,895.68. Is that the actual -- that's what we're 10 paying, no more than that max number? Or are there -- 11 MR. LOONEY: That's a combination of fixed cost 12 plus the projected claim cost. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But that's the 14 amount -- that is the max? 15 MR. LOONEY: That's the max under that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no -- but are there any 17 other fees associated with this anywhere? You know, employee 18 fees, claim fees, broker fees, anything else in there? 19 That's -- 20 MR. LOONEY: I don't know. We've -- we've gone 21 through the contract pretty thoroughly to find if there was 22 any additional printing charges or other legal charges, 23 things of that sort, and pretty much identified that that fee 24 changes on a monthly basis in relationship to your total 25 population. 12-3-07 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MR. LOONEY: The fee is based on -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MR. LOONEY: It fluctuates on a monthly basis. Not 5 the fee, but the dollar amount. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. And -- but setup fee was 7 waived, and the run-in, run-out was also waived? 8 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Gary, what accounts for the 10 variation in the total fixed, as I look across the line? 11 MR. LOONEY: A lot of it has to do with the premium 12 and stop loss insurance, as to the amount of premium required 13 by the stop loss carriers. There are some variations in the 14 actual per-head administration cost, but those are relatively 15 minor. Primarily, the biggest change or the biggest cost is 16 the stop loss insurance. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there -- are there any of these 18 bidders that have fees which are not included in the 19 tabulation which, in essence, need to be added to any of 20 those bottom figures that we're looking at? 21 MR. LOONEY: The only -- the only fee that's 22 difficult for us to identify is a fee that is a 23 per-transaction fee -- per-transaction fee that's charged as 24 a result of claim payments that are being made. That fee was 25 projected by one of the bidders, and there's been an 12-3-07 17 1 estimation in the past that there was maybe .5 to .7 claims 2 that would -- times the number of employees per month. And 3 that can range anywhere from an additional $9,000 to $12,000 4 a year in cost, based on those transaction fees. But that's 5 an estimate. That's -- 6 MR. MOHON: It's included in the maximum cost. 7 It's already included in there. 8 MR. LOONEY: It's included in the maximum? 9 MR. MOHON: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: On an estimate that you've 11 indicated? 12 MR. LOONEY: I don't know. Is that -- 13 MR. MOHON: Yes. Yes, sir. 14 MR. LOONEY: Is that lowest? 15 MR. MOHON: Yeah. I haven't done the math on it, 16 but it's included. We've included the -- your max cost is 17 your max cost. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're about to get engaged 20 in open enrollment, and we're changing administrators. Do we 21 see any anticipated delays for the employee group in terms of 22 identification cards and all the kind of things that are 23 necessary when they go in the marketplace? 24 MS. SMITH: No. FARA brought on 20,000 employees 25 for the State of Louisiana, and had their ID cards to them in 12-3-07 18 1 10 days, so we have a very good system. Our enrollment 2 process is very smooth. There's going to be bumps when you 3 go with a new carrier, but we react very swiftly. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only question I have is, the 5 open enrollment's going to be online; is that correct? 6 MS. SMITH: Mm-hmm. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And going to be done out at 8 ours. I think you had asked for a 10-computer setup, and 9 this setup was six. 10 MS. HYDE: We'll be fine. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 12 MS. HYDE: We'll be fine. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gary, what is the reason for 14 going with FARA as opposed to Group and Pension 15 Administrators, Inc.? 16 MR. LOONEY: Group and Pension Administrators 17 included a laser for one individual. They would have 18 increased -- potentially increased their maximum cost by an 19 additional $150,000. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Fixed costs appears to be 21 considerably higher, too, by about $60,000. 22 MR. LOONEY: That had to do with the stop loss 23 insurance. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 12-3-07 19 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're -- whether you're 2 taking the lasering or not lasering into account, FARA has 3 the lowest price? 4 MR. LOONEY: Right. Well, they're pretty much the 5 lowest price anyway, even without the laser. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Boston Mutual is a little 7 bit lower, their max number and on their expected, but 8 anyway, if you add the lasering, that changes that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Considering the evaluation factors 10 as set forth in the Request for Proposals, it's your 11 recommendation that the Court accept the proposal from FARA? 12 MR. LOONEY: That's correct, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: As well as the implementation of the 14 matters that you set forth with regard to the effective -- 15 MR. LOONEY: Changes in the benefit structure. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- change to 60 days from 30 days, 17 and remove dependent pregnancies, and the definition of 18 "dependent" requires attendance at some sort of qualified 19 school between 19 and 24, as well as the changes to the 20 retiree plan that you've recommended? 21 MR. LOONEY: And the -- we get very specific in our 22 definitions of age. You know, it's up to the age of 19, 23 which means it's through the end of their 18th year, so it's 24 up to the age of 19. And it's up to the age of 24, so it's 25 23 and 364 days plus. So, it's right up to those birthdays, 12-3-07 20 1 rather than through the end of the age of 24 or the end of 2 the age of 19. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. LOONEY: The renewal for the life insurance was 5 also the -- Mutual of Omaha has renewed the life insurance at 6 the same premium rate that was in effect previously. There's 7 no change in the life insurance premium. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's -- I'm assuming that 9 when we vote, that we are going to vote for all of these 10 things at one time, accept the company as well as these 11 recommendation changes here. So, if we're doing that, I'd 12 like to -- I'd like to be really clear on this pregnancy 13 issue. Just -- I just want to make sure that we're all 14 riding the same boat. Right now -- what are we doing right 15 now? We're covering -- 16 MR. LOONEY: Dependent children pregnancies. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dependent children that live 18 in the home of their parents. 19 MR. LOONEY: Just has to be determined that they 20 are a dependent. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MR. LOONEY: Which means you are under the I.R.S. 23 regulations. Typically, that means you're more than 24 50 percent of the support of that child during the previous 25 year. You provide housing, nurturing, food, shelter, and at 12-3-07 21 1 least 50 percent of the cost of that process for that 2 dependent. It's an I.R.S. definition -- federal I.R.S. 3 definition for a dependent. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the -- I've 5 always -- 6 MR. LOONEY: Just as an example -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 MR. LOONEY: Okay. If you have the dependent 9 classification up to the age of 19 -- up to the age of 24 10 that doesn't require attendance at school on a full-time 11 basis, then that individual -- young lady who becomes 12 pregnant at the age of 22 or 23, who is not attending school 13 on a full-time basis, could, during an open enrollment 14 period, were she pregnant, come back on your plan to receive 15 benefits for the pregnancy by moving back home with her 16 parents during that time frame. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so we're removing that 18 potential? 19 MR. LOONEY: We're removing that from the benefit 20 plan as -- as an option. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if they lived at home the 22 whole time and are going to school and become pregnant, 23 they're still not -- 24 MR. LOONEY: Still would not be covered for 25 pregnancy. 12-3-07 22 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've always understood that 2 my son had to be in college or he wasn't covered. That's 3 what I've always been told. 4 MR. LOONEY: Well, it's -- that was not the 5 definition in the previous plan. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So this is not a shock to 7 me. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the dependency definition 9 under I.R.S. rules for claiming the exemption has essentially 10 been what your understanding was. That's probably where you 11 got that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still think we ought to 13 call the Texas Rangers in on this deal, get it straight. 14 Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably. 16 MR. LOONEY: Are you comfortable with changing the 17 fees for the retirees? That's part of -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm not comfortable with 19 that, but I'm willing to do it. I think it's a little bit 20 steep, in my own -- my own opinion. We're going to catch 21 hell over it, I can tell you that right now. 22 MR. LOONEY: I think that if you check and see, 23 you'll find that that fee is not out of range as far as some 24 of the large insurance companies' fees for Medicare 25 supplement plans and things of that sort. You're going to a 12-3-07 23 1 -- an independent insurance company to purchase the Medicare 2 supplement types of plans. And the Medicare supplement plans 3 typically do not cover prescription medications. And 4 prescription medications is primarily the reason that they're 5 continuing the contract. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not comfortable with it, 7 but I'm going to vote for it. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Call Bruce. 10 MR. LOONEY: Are you nearing retirement? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If what the Court had 12 authorized back a year ago had gone into effect -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- it would only be a slight 15 increase. Now it's a 30 percent increase for one year. 16 Which that's not going to be too palatable for some of those. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's kind of steep for 18 some of them. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But -- 20 MR. LOONEY: You gentlemen have the ability to set 21 that fee at any fee you want to set it at. That's just our 22 recommendation. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: If you go back to 1995 and put in a 24 COLA, you'd probably be beyond that, wouldn't you? 25 MR. LOONEY: Substantially. 12-3-07 24 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And this also includes -- 3 what do you call the other things that employees can get? 4 MR. LOONEY: This has nothing to -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This doesn't have anything to 6 do with any of that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is strictly -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Health. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It's got the -- it does have the 11 life insurance feature attached to it, however, the $20,000 12 that we've had attached to the employee health benefits plan. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't see that in here. 14 That's why I was asking the question. 15 MS. HYDE: It also has the cafeteria plan, so our 16 major medical is now going to be done cafeteria plan. 17 MR. LOONEY: Those fees are listed in there, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? What did I miss? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like FARA's proposal on that 20 was better than the others also. Okay. Any other questions? 21 Comments? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the health 23 insurance program, and issue the contract to FARA, with stop 24 loss to Monumental Life, as proposed by our consultant, Gary 25 Looney, in his letter to the Court dated December 3, 2007, 12-3-07 25 1 with all of the other recommendations attached thereto. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a motion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I have a second? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'll second it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm sorry, I didn't hear. We 7 have a motion and a second to approve the recommendation of 8 the consultant to award to FARA on the proposal, and 9 incorporate all of the changes as set forth in the memorandum 10 by the consultant. Question or discussion on the motion? 11 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 12 hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 17 Mr. Looney. 18 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate all your hard work. 21 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Hyde? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got married again, huh? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hyde? 12-3-07 26 1 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you notify the 3 retirees -- when you -- 4 MS. HYDE: I'm going to ask for, like, a steel -- a 5 steel thing to get into. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, what do you is add the 7 County Judge's home phone number in there, just to the 8 retirees only. There's only 12. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So I can put on my -- my recorded 10 announcement the respective Commissioners' phone numbers, in 11 case they reside in Precincts, 1, 2, 3 or 4. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to have my phone 13 disconnected. 14 MS. HYDE: Thank you, gentlemen, for your support. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any day. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 2; consider, 17 discuss, and take appropriate action on information and 18 alternative elections received from T.C.D.R.S. and retirement 19 funding and take appropriate action to finalize T.C.D.R.S. 20 plan and elections for Kerr County for 2008. Ms. Hyde and 21 the Auditor, I believe, were at a T.C.D.R.S. conference -- 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in which various subjects were 24 discussed, and as a result of that, Ms. Hyde wanted to appear 25 before the Court and have us take a look before 12-3-07 27 1 December 15th, which is our final date for finalizing our 2 2008 elections under the T.C.D.R.S. plan. 3 MS. HYDE: There was -- there were a couple of 4 things, I think, that both the Auditor and myself were 5 surprised at. The first one was that we can have the 6 matching program up to 2.5 percent. Our understanding was 7 that we were at the max, and so we definitely perked up and 8 went into these meetings to make sure that we picked up every 9 bit of information. So, what you have there is plan rates. 10 If we decide we want to go to 210 percent matching rate, it 11 would be at 9 percent. Our current budget plan for 12 T.C.D.R.S. was 8.99 this year, so that would be a little bit 13 over our budget, but we could go to the 200 percent plan, 14 which is at 8.59, which means we would still be under -- 15 under budget, but we could increase the matching rate. And 16 that would be only for future; it would not be retro. We 17 would not go backwards. It would only be from this day 18 forward, for futures. We could not -- we could not afford to 19 go backwards. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why does this say "No 21 buy-back" on it? 22 MS. HYDE: Where? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Buy-back was a year at a time. You 24 do that a year at a time. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay. 12-3-07 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And we did it for '07 only. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It was in effect during '07. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. Thank goodness. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The required rate for '07 7 was 8.51, correct? That's what I see. And the proposed rate 8 that we budgeted for '08 is -- 9 MS. HYDE: 8.99. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- 8.99. That's what we 11 put in the budget? 12 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, because the budget -- we 13 budgeted prior to T.C.D.R.S. telling us what the rate was. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MS. HYDE: So we assumed that it would go up. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Williams, what is the cost of 18 one-one-hundredth of a percent? For example, 8.99 to 9.00, 19 that's a one-hundredth of a percent. What is the budgetary 20 impact of that? Stated another way, what is our annual 21 payroll? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, lord. Right now our payroll is 23 running over -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Gross. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Gross? 12-3-07 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: I can tell you it's running over a 3 million dollars per month for our payroll for this current 4 calendar year. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $12,000. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: $1,200. That's one-ten-thousandth. 7 Yeah, 9 percent is 9 one-hundredths, and you take a hundredth 8 of that. Just move over four decimal places. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Talking about 12 million? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Times .01 -- .001. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: .0001. 9 percent is .09. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's right. $1,200. $1,200, 14 $1,500. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Almost nothing. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I kind of go along with the 19 Judge's -- he didn't say anything, but he was going down the 20 road to say we ought to go up to Plan 2 that was proposed, 21 which gets us up to 210 percent. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, say that again? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Closest in line with what we've 24 budgeted, obviously. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Plan 1? 12-3-07 30 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plan 2. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would be about from $1,200 to 4 $1,500 more than what's in the budget, but would get us 5 closest to the maximum contribution rate, which is a pretty 6 good benefit for employees. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Were you able to get a compilation 8 summary of -- from T.C.D.R.S. of what other counties have 9 done? 10 MS. HYDE: No. They used to publish that. You 11 know, it used to be in their annual report. It's no longer 12 in their annual report, and they don't have it for next year. 13 So, they said that there are 15 counties that are max. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: At -- 15 MS. HYDE: But they wouldn't -- they didn't -- they 16 couldn't tell me who. They're maxed out. And what some of 17 them have had to do, they've had to take steps. So -- but I 18 thought this was pretty interesting, and this allowed us this 19 year to make a substantial jump, even if we could only go to 20 the 200, and then we could go -- go up. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You -- you were of the understanding 22 prior to attending this conference that we were fixed at what 23 we were doing? 24 MS. HYDE: I -- yes, sir. I'd been told that 25 several times, internally. 12-3-07 31 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. HYDE: But it has been -- it has been higher 3 than what we have for many years. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no mechanism for 5 employees to put in additional amounts? 6 MS. HYDE: No. No, we can't allow them to put in 7 additional amounts, 'cause that's the way the law is. You 8 know, we -- that was the question that we all asked multiple 9 times, you know, because we were wanting it to be more like a 10 457 or a 401, but because -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because it's not. 12 MS. HYDE: It's not. So, I thought that this would 13 be good. I mean, we have several things that are good news 14 this year for them. No increase in their health insurance. 15 Can we bump up our matching rate for going into retirement? 16 Although we can't go back and -- but going forward, this will 17 help them, and if we can continue to take it up, based upon 18 our budget -- you know, our budget, that would be -- that 19 would be very good for retirees. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we -- 21 wrong one; where am I? -- make the election with T.C.D.R.S. 22 to go with 210 percent matching rate, as outlined on proposed 23 Plan 2 on the attachment that was handed out to the Court 24 today. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second it. 12-3-07 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 2 Questions or discussion on the motion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the funding part of that, I 4 think we'll just wait until later in the year, because as 5 employee numbers vary throughout the year, there may be 6 enough money in that budget. Right now, there may not. We 7 can figure that out towards the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, differences. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's such a small amount that, 10 you know -- but I don't see a reason to make a budget 11 amendment at this time. 12 MS. HYDE: It could be in other people's budgets, 13 we have a little bit left, and we can put it in there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. Any further question or 15 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 16 signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 21 Ms. Hyde. 22 MS. HYDE: We've got one question -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 3; consider, discuss, take 24 appropriate action on request to use courthouse grounds and 25 parking area on early morning of December 11, 2007, for 12-3-07 33 1 Cowboy Breakfast in connection with local area and Hill 2 Country District Junior Livestock Show activities. I made a 3 faux pas. That should read January the 11th, 2008, which is 4 very near the time that those events occur, and Mr. Bondy and 5 the other folks that are working on this are going to come 6 back next Monday, and -- even though, I think, since it's 7 obviously a -- a faux pas, we could probably consider it 8 somewhat like the notice? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I was using as my model the 11 appointment of someone on the board for a two-year term, as 12 opposed to a three-year term, if you'll recall that instance. 13 But they'll be back next Monday, so away we go. Next item; 14 consider, discuss -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold on. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me that we 18 are going to do this, and then we're going to do it again 19 next Monday? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't do it today. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to do it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the plan? We're 23 going to do it today, and then do it again Monday? Why do we 24 do that? Why do we do things -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to consider it 12-3-07 34 1 today. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Need to change the date. 3 MR. EMERSON: Because I'm a stick-in-the-mud, 4 Buster. The bottom line is that somebody may -- in the 5 scenario that the Judge is referring to, the public had 6 notice that you were going to appoint an individual, that 7 they were going specifically to that board, that it was two 8 years long, and it's a minor issue whether, you know, it's 9 two years or three years, because all the other facts are 10 common. In this particular instance, theoretically speaking, 11 since you have a specific date noted, somebody may not have a 12 problem with December 11th, and they may have a big problem 13 with January 11th. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not my question. 15 MR. EMERSON: We're supposed to give notice to the 16 public -- okay, I'll shut up. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate your 18 explanation, but I don't care about that stuff. What I care 19 about is, why do we deal with one issue two meetings in a 20 row? If we -- let's pretend that you didn't have a problem 21 with this. We were going to go ahead and do it, and then 22 turn around and do it again next Monday? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we wouldn't have done it 24 Monday. 25 MR. EMERSON: No. 12-3-07 35 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just would have done it 2 today. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Change the date. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Bondy -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We would have changed the 6 date to the correct date, and it would have been over and 7 done with. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank God. I thought -- I 9 really thought y'all were losing it there for a minute. 10 Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So we're not doing it today. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not doing it today, 13 Rex, and you're absolutely correct. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 4; consider, 15 discuss, take appropriate action to confirm plan for issuance 16 of county cell phones to county officials, employees, and 17 termination of reimbursement by County for individual cell 18 phones and/or cell phone use. During the budget process and 19 prior, and probably since, there's been considerable 20 discussion on a master cell phone contract for the County, 21 other than for the Sheriff's Department and jail folks, in 22 essence, modeled after their arrangement, that we put all the 23 phones under one agreement in order to save -- save some 24 money. And pursuant to that direction by the Court, the I.T. 25 Director and I got together and we have worked out a deal 12-3-07 36 1 with Five Star, and there's some rough notes on the 2 parameters of it. And what's been passed out to you -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Extremely rough notes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Five Star has agreed to -- well, 5 it's -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Work in progress. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like a doctor's 8 writing. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hen-scratching. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can read this. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Excuse me. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's hen-scratching. This 13 is awful. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is worse than my 15 handwriting. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What we've done in addition, as part 17 and parcel of that, is for those that have an individual 18 personal cell phone contract with Five Star, for example, 19 Five Star has agreed to allow those individuals who were 20 using their own personal cell phone partially for personal, 21 partial for county use, to rework or cancel their individual 22 cell phone contracts to allow for this modification. But any 23 individual who needs a cell phone to conduct county business 24 will be issued a cell phone under this plan. We're probably 25 going to have some transition with some non-Five Star plans. 12-3-07 37 1 We've got a few that are maybe Sprint, Verizon, Cingular, and 2 we may have to roll those on individually as those contracts 3 run out. And -- but Five Star is willing to work with us to 4 do that. That's where we are. And attached are also the 5 memos to employees asking them to identify the number of 6 phones they would need, and subsequently, that December 1 is 7 what we put into effect for -- in our discussions with Five 8 Star. The billing will be from the 20th to the 20th. And 9 that's essentially it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, you talked about Five 11 Star allowing other contracts to roll over on them. I 12 understand that there may be some cancellation fees from 13 those other companies. Contract cancel -- actual 14 cancellation fee. Do we have any idea what -- what that 15 impact -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Those that are under contract and 17 for which there would be a cancellation fee, we're not 18 requiring those to be rolled over -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- until those contracts expire, and 21 then they'll just be rolled over onto the Five Star contract. 22 But on those that there are outstanding valid contracts, 23 we're not going to incur any cancellation. How many of those 24 do we have, John, that are outside with Sprint or Cingular or 25 Verizon or whoever in the world? 12-3-07 38 1 MR. TROLINGER: Five contracts that I have in-hand 2 today that we're changing from other service providers. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many -- I guess what we 4 need to do, we need to -- probably in your memo, Judge, we 5 need to tell any elected official or department head that has 6 any in that department to give us what the cancellation date 7 is so we can -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think John's already got that. 9 Don't you? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Just the current -- just the 11 current bunch. 12 MS. PIEPER: It's kind of late now on mine, because 13 according to that memo, it said as of December 1st they 14 wouldn't be paid, so mine's been paid and the cancellation 15 fee has been submitted for payment. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a county contract. It 17 wasn't a personal, was it? 18 MS. PIEPER: I don't know -- I don't know how to 19 answer that. It was -- yes, it was. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Whose contract was the name in? 21 MS. PIEPER: It was under County Clerk, Jannett 22 Pieper. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It was -- 24 MS. PIEPER: But it was authorized -- it was 25 authorized for payment through Commissioners Court order back 12-3-07 39 1 in 2001. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: How long was the contract to run 3 when it was authorized in 2001? 4 MS. PIEPER: I have no idea. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: 5-year contract? 6-year? 12-year? 6 MS. PIEPER: I didn't see a contract. I didn't 7 know that there was a cancellation fee thing until I went to 8 cancel it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's taken care of. 10 You're submitting that cancellation fee for payment. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It was a county contract; it wasn't 12 a personal contract. 13 MS. PIEPER: I think it would probably be 14 considered -- well, it was a governmental business line, but 15 it was -- I had to put -- it was under County Clerk, Jannett 16 Pieper, and I had to give them my Social Security number back 17 when, so I don't know how it would be considered. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But you -- you just canceled the 19 contract? 20 MS. PIEPER: Yes, turned the phone off. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much is the cancellation 23 fee? 24 MR. TROLINGER: $200. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you wasted $200, Ms. Pieper. 12-3-07 40 1 MS. PIEPER: I went by your memo, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that referred to personal 3 phones, and I don't think you had a personal phone. And I 4 don't know how you got your cell phone in an 8-year contract 5 to begin with. 6 MS. PIEPER: If it doesn't get paid, it goes 7 against my credit, because my Social Security number was on 8 it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a county contract, 10 Ms. Pieper. It's done. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing I'd -- comment 12 I'd make, when you do a large one for everybody, you're going 13 to have to have somebody that actually kind of reviews the 14 bills that come in because of your limit on minutes. You 15 will have -- you know, I've had the same thing. That's why I 16 scrutinize them pretty good on mine, so that you don't get 17 one or two employees that really go over and use a whole lot 18 of minutes, which would -- could very well cost everybody 19 else if you go over your minute allotment. But the drawback 20 to that is, whoever does that will get to see the total bill 21 and every phone number and every call that any employee ever 22 makes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We appreciate you stepping 24 up to the plate, Rusty. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nope. That's why I have mine. 12-3-07 41 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, let me ask the 2 question kind of in reverse here a little bit. For any of us 3 who have personal contracts who have never asked for county 4 reimbursement, this has no effect? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, none whatsoever. You can 6 continue to use your own personal cell phone for county 7 business. You just won't get anything for it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, exactly. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If you want to conduct county 10 business on a cell phone, though, we will provide you with a 11 cell phone. I'm assuming, you know, if it's other than 12 elected officials, as long as the elected official or 13 department head says this employee needs it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the time involved 15 in the bookkeeping is worth leaving it alone. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. I think Rusty's 17 onto something, though, maybe for the first time in years. 18 But I think it is important that somebody oversees this 19 thing, and I'd like to know today who that person's going to 20 be, or what office that's going to be. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can tell you who it's not 22 going to be. You and me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Far as I know, the plan is to submit 25 it to the Auditor's office. 12-3-07 42 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the Auditor in here? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: They're the ones that -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the Auditor's not here. 4 The Treasurer is. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: I have a question, though. Is it 6 going to be one county account, all cell phones on one 7 account? Or can it be split out and have separate billings 8 for separate departments? Five Star could possibly do that, 9 and then each department would get their own bill and they 10 would be responsible for going over it, like the Sheriff does 11 with his, and then submitting it to the Auditor's office for 12 payment. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a discussion where they're 14 going to group those -- those numbers together. Is that not 15 correct, John? 16 MR. TROLINGER: That is correct. The entire 17 purpose is -- is to have one account to simplify the billing 18 and to reduce the cost. And the billing that we receive will 19 reflect one line item per phone number, with the number of 20 minutes. It will not be a detailed billing. So the Auditor 21 can red flag any phones that show up with a substantial 22 change in the number of minutes. That that's how I see it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can they be sorted by -- I 24 guess the question, as I heard the Treasurer say, can it be 25 sorted by department? Like, can all of the Maintenance 12-3-07 43 1 phones be in one -- a subtotal under them? 2 MR. TROLINGER: No. This will be in order by the 3 phone numbers. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? 5 JUDGE WRIGHT: Has Five Star increased their area? 6 At one time, I canceled mine because I couldn't use it in 7 Center Point. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Five Star added two towers in the 9 past year, and they're adding one new one -- 10 JUDGE WRIGHT: So I'll be able to get it when I'm 11 out in the boonies out there? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can tell you as far as 13 inside Kerr County, Five Star will give you -- and I'm not 14 promoting them; it's just what we've found out through law 15 enforcement. Five Star will give you the best reception, 16 best service, as long as you're inside the county. Right 17 before you get into Center Point, on 27 right there by 18 Brown's Welding, that area is always going to be a dead area. 19 It's been dead forever, you know. It's just about a -- oh, a 20 tenth of a mile stretch there on 27 that's dead. But 21 otherwise -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all electrical 23 interference over there between him and Frontier Gear. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Maybe, but there is a dead 25 area about there. 12-3-07 44 1 JUDGE WRIGHT: And The Woods. Both dead areas, 2 too, I had before. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of 4 Mr. Trolinger. For those of us who will -- who have a 5 personal contract, and intend to continue a personal contract 6 and seek no county reimbursement -- those are the three 7 prerequisites, okay? -- can we use the power of the County's 8 purchasing to upgrade our telephone instrument and so forth? 9 Is that a possibility? 10 MR. TROLINGER: There is a discount that's been 11 offered. Judge Tinley, do you have the details? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I mentioned that in my memo, where 13 they had approved a new program for personal family cell 14 phone use for county employees. My recollection is -- I 15 don't have it in front of me. There was an e-mail. I think 16 it was a -- a $5 per phone, or $5 discount. It wasn't great, 17 but it was better, as they say, than a poke in the eye with a 18 sharp stick. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But they -- we asked them to provide 21 a little sweetener, and they didn't have one. They went -- 22 went back and conjured something up, and sent us an e-mail on 23 it. Do you have that handy? 24 MS. GRINSTEAD: I probably have it in the computer. 25 I can get it for you. 12-3-07 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it was an e-mail, probably 2 in that file, but my recollection was it was a $5 discount. 3 MR. TROLINGER: That sounds approximately right. 4 And, yes, Five Star came up with this exclusively for Kerr 5 County as a result of the offer to consolidate the business 6 to one provider. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Five Star's going to lose money on 8 this deal. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, substantial -- they're going 10 to take a substantial hit by doing this. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't imagine any cell 12 phone provider losing money. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, based on what they're getting 14 now, and based on what they're going to get in the future, 15 it's going to be less in the future, because we're 16 consolidating. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But the billing and 18 everything will be so much simpler. They'll be doing -- 19 sending out one bill, getting one check. And not having to 20 keep account of all those calls and document that to send out 21 as the bill will be a big savings. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. The -- so, the 23 oversight -- the answer to my question of 38 minutes ago, I'm 24 hearing that the Auditor is the person that's overseeing and 25 checking and doublechecking all the phone calls and make sure 12-3-07 46 1 everybody's in line and not going out-of-bounds and all that. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Well, once again, the billing 3 changes from a detailed billing to one -- one phone number, 4 one line item, so we know how many minutes there are per 5 phone. And the Auditor, in the past, has overseen this and 6 red-flagged any departments that had a substantial change, 7 and that's what I expect to continue. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, yes is the answer. The 9 Auditor is going to be this person? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is going to be a very 13 simplified version. It's only going to be if you have a flag 14 where you've gone way over your -- your amount that you're 15 contracted for, to red-flag those, but it's not going to be a 16 per phone call audit? 17 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a per phone call, but it 19 will be per phone. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Per phone. But -- really, 21 per phone is the way I'm hearing it. 22 MR. TROLINGER: No, it will be per phone line, yes. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the Auditor sees it, and 25 what will the Treasurer see once it arrives at her desk? 12-3-07 47 1 MS. WILLIAMS: I don't see the bills usually. All 2 I get is the report from the Auditor's office for -- as the 3 Court approves it, and then we pay the bills. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you -- well, see, I think 5 the Constitution was set up for this check and balance issue. 6 That's kind of where my mind's going right now. Could you 7 peek at it occasionally? 8 MS. WILLIAMS: Sure. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- 10 MS. WILLIAMS: My concern is, how many minutes is 11 the County going to get on this new billing? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to have an initial trial 13 period -- 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that we're going to determine 16 that. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And some -- something between 19 probably 60 and 180 days, as mentioned in that very elaborate 20 and very readable memo which you have, we're going to -- 21 we're going to find that level. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And then we're going to fix it based 24 on that, with the proviso that in order to avoid this 45 25 cents a minute or whatever these outrageous overage charges 12-3-07 48 1 are, the deal is that if we exceed it, they're just going to 2 bump us to the next increment, so that we don't get into that 3 trap. But we're trying to find that level in these first few 4 months. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 'Cause my concern was you 6 have a set number of minutes, and you have however many phone 7 calls. As each call goes in, doesn't matter which 8 department, it starts taking off those minutes. When you get 9 -- when you bottom out, they're going to start hitting you 10 with charges, and how are we going to know which departments 11 have gone over and are being charged if we don't have the 12 detail and you just have -- are they going to give us a 13 one-line total for each phone number that has -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Of minutes, yes. Each phone -- each 15 phone will have a total minutes for that billing period. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one -- in our billing that 18 I get each month, I get that copy of that page which gives me 19 a list of all the phone numbers the Sheriff's Office has, and 20 the number of minutes each one used. But also attached with 21 that, you do get a detailed billing, which normally, you 22 know, we get. I don't know if you can tell them not to send 23 that, but I get that, so somebody here is probably going to 24 get that. 25 JUDGE WRIGHT: You're paying extra for that. 12-3-07 49 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but it gives me exactly 2 what calls each one of those phones made; it's separated out. 3 But what Mindy is saying, and it doesn't affect me, is if you 4 got a 6,000-minute plan and Bruce only uses, you know, a few 5 minutes of it, but somebody else uses 700 minutes of it, 6 which caused it to go over the 6,000, then you start billing 7 that department for the extra. How do you know his phone is 8 the one that made it go over, and not somebody else's phone? 9 You're going to have a hard time dividing it out by 10 department. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Divide it out by phone. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's -- you know. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Well, you may have an official who 14 doesn't use their phone for, say, the first two weeks or so 15 of the month. You've already met your match or your limit, 16 and the next time that individual uses that phone, he's going 17 to be charged because you have no more free minutes, but yet 18 you're penalizing them for being frugal when somebody else is 19 just going bonkers. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and we'll get a report. 21 If we see someone using the phone a whole lot, that person 22 needs to be spoken to; say, "Why are you using your phone so 23 much?" And the Judge just said there's no additional charge 24 per minute. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hence my question. That's 12-3-07 50 1 why I'm going with my question, is who's going to oversee 2 that and decide that somebody -- that I've gone over my 3 limit, and -- and that I'm using it for county business? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, somebody needs to 6 determine that, I think. I mean, that's what we're doing 7 here, is -- is getting these phones for people to use for 8 county business only; that we're getting away from this 9 personal usage thing, is one of the things that we're doing 10 here. Somebody has to oversee that and be able to see it in 11 the billing. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you use some -- I mean, 13 the way it's set up, and it's for costs, the only way you can 14 do that, the Auditor's going to look at it. If certain 15 employees are using a lot of minutes, whether it's 100 16 minutes or 200 minutes, I think that department head or 17 elected official needs to talk to that employee, figure out 18 why you have that many minutes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, does the Auditor call me 20 and say, "Buster, one of your secretaries is using too many 21 minutes"? Is that how it's going to work? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm trying to 24 get to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's how I see it. That's 12-3-07 51 1 the person who has the report, is the Auditor. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The department head or elected 3 official is the one that responded and said, "I've got so 4 many employees that need have access to cell phones for 5 county use, and the estimated number of minutes for each of 6 those employees..." That's what the memo required them to 7 submit, is as follows: Employee A, so many. Employee B, so 8 many per month. If the Auditor spots something out of the 9 norm, the Auditor's going to contact the elected official or 10 department head, and then the department head or elected 11 official sorts it out with the employee from that point on. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That's all I'm 13 looking for, is that right there. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: On the incentive plan for county, I 15 don't recall seeing this one before on the add-a-phone 16 feature, $3 discount on add-a-phone. It's normally $15 with 17 Five Star Wireless for county employees, individually. So, I 18 believe there's two incentives now, the $5 for the base, $3 19 for the add-a-phone discount. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Judge, I know we have that e-mail 21 that gives us the incentive for the add-a-phone; I do recall 22 that. I don't know -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There was another one, I'm pretty 24 sure, that sticks in my mind that we had for $5 for the base. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got it in my 12-3-07 52 1 briefcase. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got it. You sent it 4 out; I've got it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what are we doing today? 6 Confirming the plan? What's the action item? I thought we'd 7 already done this. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess I'm going to have to 9 sign a contract, I think, that I've not yet signed. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Depending on how many phones 11 there are, Judge, you're going to have to sign a lot of 12 contracts. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm just going to sign one. 14 MS. LAVENDER: Let me ask -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Every phone number is a 16 separate -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our plan is different than 18 yours, Sheriff. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Our plan -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our plan is better than the 21 Sheriff's, it says in the memo. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 23 MS. LAVENDER: Since my phone is paid for by grant 24 money, how is that going to affect how it's -- how it's -- is 25 it going to come in on the county phone bill just like 12-3-07 53 1 everybody else's? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this part of what we're 3 furnishing in-kind, or is this part of it being paid -- 4 MS. LAVENDER: It's paid by grant money. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Keep it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a budgeted amount 8 within the grant -- framework of the grant? 9 (Ms. Lavender nodded.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't know why you 11 wouldn't just, whatever your minutes are, pay it the same 12 way. 13 MS. LAVENDER: But mine right now is just a flat 14 fee, is what's in the grant, "X" number of dollars a month. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's going to be a flat fee 16 now, too. I mean -- 17 MS. LAVENDER: It's never -- it's not -- it doesn't 18 change from month to month. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It shouldn't change now. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Shouldn't affect the -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once we get our minutes. 22 MS. LAVENDER: Is it going to come in with the big 23 bill like the rest of the county? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think, yeah. And I think what we 25 need to do is, when you apply to renew that grant, show that 12-3-07 54 1 as an in-kind contribution, and have something else covered 2 by the grant, maybe. As part of our in-kind contribution, as 3 a matching portion. 4 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, that was some 7 high-level executive decision right there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I want to know how many years it's 11 been since the Sheriff had a good idea, when he finally came 12 forward with one. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eight that I know of. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're right, just a little 15 bit longer than eight. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once the contract gets approved 17 by the County Attorney, we'll authorize you to sign it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that a motion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm not making any motion 21 today. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't seen a contract. Or 24 the County Attorney hasn't seen a contract. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Anything further? 12-3-07 55 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we jumping to the tail 2 end? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got nothing else on the 4 phones? Okay, we're at the tail end. First off, do we have 5 any bills? I don't see any auditor in here. No budget 6 amendments. Reports? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last Thursday, the Texas 8 Youth Commission visited Kerr County's Juvenile Detention 9 Facility, along with the Cornerstone people. And I guess 10 there's some seriousness about what's going on, because there 11 were six of them. Count them; six of them came down from 12 Austin in two cars, and they kicked the wheels on that 13 building until they almost fell off. But there was a very 14 interesting assessment of the facility. Kevin Stanton 15 assisted. I was there, Cornerstone people were there, 16 Maintenance -- Tim and one of his helpers was there. And I'm 17 sure that once the T.Y.C. people reduce whatever their 18 thoughts and comments were to writing, we'll probably know 19 about that in the very near future. It would appear, Judge, 20 that they're trying to get all these ducks lined up so they 21 can issue their contracts in -- toward the end of January. 22 And I would think that everything thereafter would be on a 23 pretty short leash. The Cornerstone people -- only one came 24 down; that was Gary Miller. The controller did not come 25 down, but he's been e-mailing back and forth to me about when 12-3-07 56 1 it is that you and I can sit down and hack out the -- the 2 remaining terms of a lease agreement with him. And it would 3 seem to me that we would want to see the report from T.Y.C. 4 with respect to the building so that we are quite sure if 5 anything needs to be done, who does what in terms of 6 preparation and getting ready. So, that's kind of the 7 report. That's where it's at. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Did T.Y.C. indicate that they would 9 be issuing a report concerning any deficiencies in the 10 facility? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's kind of what 12 I'm suggesting, yes. They're probably going to do it, but it 13 will probably go directly to Cornerstone, because they're the 14 agent that's working with them. We're just the owner of the 15 building. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're just the owners. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, just the owner of the 18 building. But all that's going to come into focus, I would 19 think, when you and I and the representative of Cornerstone 20 sit down about making that building ready and so forth. But, 21 yeah, I expect some reports, and we'll see it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody else? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would hope you -- at least 24 you two guys are in that pipeline; that when that report 25 comes out and goes to Cornerstone, that same day it be mailed 12-3-07 57 1 here. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They may do that, 3 Commissioner. I'm not sure. But I -- I'm certain that we'll 4 get it. We'll get a look at it from Cornerstone at the very 5 least. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Our current -- our current position 7 with Cornerstone with regard to that building and the 8 maintenance of the building is that, as it is now, we'll 9 provide everything as being operational. Beyond that, it's 10 all in their lap. That's our current base position with 11 them, so I think that's going to necessarily require us to be 12 in that loop. Unless they don't want us to even think about 13 sharing in the cost, in which case, that's fine with us. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there will be some 15 things. I stayed with them for two hours plus in the 16 morning, and they took a lunch break and came back at 1:30 17 for the purpose of -- ostensibly the purpose of firing -- 18 cutting off the power, see if the generators kicked in on 19 time and so forth and so on, and they were playing around 20 with the security system. There were some -- there may be 21 some small issues there in terms of electronic locks firing 22 or not firing. And I did overhear one conversation with 23 respect to sprinkler systems that required caps that -- and 24 covers on them; there are no coverings. So, there will be 25 some minor issues we have to address. 12-3-07 58 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about things like -- 2 let's say a year down -- we do a contract with them, all this 3 works out, and a year and a half down the road, they decide 4 that they want to put a wall somewhere there. Is that at 5 their expense? Do they get our approval, or how does -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Both. That will be part of the 7 lease agreement. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They get our approval to -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any additions or modifications would 11 have to be with our prior approval, and I would anticipate at 12 their expense, and maybe a provision at the end of the lease 13 term that they be required to remove it, possibly, depending 14 upon what it is. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depending upon what it is. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, good. Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That'll be part of the lease 18 agreement. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it on T.Y.C. and 21 Cornerstone. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I have is, based on 24 a conversation with Commissioner Williams, the City took no 25 action on appointing anybody, and as I mentioned to you the 12-3-07 59 1 other day when we were in Boerne, you're turned loose to 2 write the letter to the City. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to have a 5 fuller-blown -- more full-blown discussion on this issue next 6 Monday. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we talking septic tanks 8 or airports? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Airports. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Airports. There may be 11 some -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Similarities. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- blurred lines between 14 them, but we're talking about the airport. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I've gotten lost in 16 it. I brought my -- I brought my airport stuff just in case 17 y'all were going to bring it up. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'll have it on 19 discussion -- for the discussion next week. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I have is that, 21 now that Animal Control is -- is involved in a statewide 22 online adoption service, they are getting lots of out-of-town 23 people coming here and adopting animals. I talked to Janie 24 on -- I think it was Friday. She told me she hadn't had to 25 euthanize a dog in three and a half weeks. 12-3-07 60 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Unbelievable. So, the 3 response to the online adoption statewide has just been 4 great. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's great. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look forward to that 7 continuing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are y'all doing on the 9 burn ban? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm taking mine off today -- 11 I'm putting it on today. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was too. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad you raised that 14 question, because I think we all put it back on about 15 4 o'clock on Thursday to Friday, whatever. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I took mine off. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's been -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Suspended. I meant 19 suspended. And I got a phone call that night from the Elm 20 Pass Volunteer Fire Department. We released it at 4 o'clock 21 in the afternoon, 'cause you indicated you wanted to do that; 22 everybody else went along. I got a phone call from Elm Pass 23 Volunteer Fire Department Chief at about 9 o'clock that 24 night, and he was really upset about two things. First of 25 all -- I'm glad the Sheriff's here. First of all, the 12-3-07 61 1 volunteer fire departments are not getting any notification. 2 They have to either call the hotline themselves, or they have 3 to wait till the next day to see the paper. No notification 4 out of dispatch that -- if that's possible, that the burn ban 5 has been put on, taken off, or -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Half the -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me finish, Sheriff. 8 And, secondly, as is the case, and we've had -- all of us 9 have had this happen, there's always one unthinking 10 individual -- that's the nicest way I can put it -- who will 11 fire it up late, or the minute he hears about it, and in this 12 particular case, we had a fire raging at 7 o'clock or 8 13 o'clock at night in the dark, and it got out of control. I 14 don't know. I just -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you -- is that a good way 16 to -- I've been calling mine. I did not do it this time, 17 because it was very short, but I will do it today. But can 18 you do that with your dispatch? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, half the time our 20 dispatch finds out by calling the hotline. I don't, okay? I 21 mean, we find out the same way that anybody else can. It 22 will be -- a lot of times officers out on a scene will ask 23 the dispatcher, "Is the burn ban on or off?" And they will 24 either call, or if I've been to court, you know, and know 25 it's off, I'll go back and tell them that it's off or it's 12-3-07 62 1 on. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we need to call your 3 department -- call dispatch and tell them that it's either on 4 or off? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In your -- since you can do it 6 individual precincts, that's what I'd rather see. If you 7 can't get hold of the volunteer fire departments, at least 8 call, you know, our dispatch and let them know. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do it through Jody. We 10 make a change on or off with Jody here, and it goes on that 11 hotline. That's the best, you know, way, as long as that's 12 accurate, that we all find out. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And John updates it too. Now, 14 I have done it on a Saturday, and if I do it over a weekend, 15 I call dispatch. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then we know -- yeah, you've 17 called us several times. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I call one person; I always 19 call dispatch. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You call dispatch if you 21 make changes? 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: I call dispatch, I fax the 23 Sheriff's Office, I think, and update the burn ban hotline. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then there's a 25 breakdown, Rusty, someplace. Because -- 12-3-07 63 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I have not required -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- first it goes off on the 3 pager. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have not required our 5 dispatch to get ahold of the volunteer fire departments. I 6 just -- you know, I mean, if they -- if they've got something 7 going in that area and they're called out, fine, we'll let 8 them know. But I haven't -- we don't dispatch for the fire 9 departments anyhow. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they all have pagers. 11 Can't you put out a page notice? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A page notice? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They all have pagers. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All you can do, we -- that's 15 all done through 911. All we do is, we can page them, 16 period, to have them call in. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That brings up another issue. 18 I was visiting with Bill Price about it, and he said that 19 they probably receive more calls asking about it than anybody 20 else, and they're not on the notification list. I mean, 21 other than -- I mean, 'cause you -- I've never thought to 22 call Bill Price or K.P.D. dispatch. They're the ones that 23 are receiving the majority of the calls, and they don't know 24 the answer, yes or no, without calling the number. I think 25 I'm going to put it on the agenda for another reason next 12-3-07 64 1 time. I think we need to discuss it a little bit, and I 2 think tweak some language on our web site. And I also want 3 to talk about burning this winter for people with prescribed 4 burns. So, anyway, it's going to be on the agenda to maybe 5 think about it and go through a little bit different process. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If y'all want me to have a 7 policy that if Jody faxes us or -- or calls us personally, 8 and then I just adopt an internal policy that when my 9 dispatchers are notified, they attempt to get ahold of each 10 volunteer fire department and city of Kerrville, I can do 11 that. I mean, that's not anything difficult. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most of them have pagers, or 13 most of them even have radios -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- that they're carrying. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why couldn't we -- Jody has 17 it set up in there to send agendas to a group of people. Why 18 couldn't you set up a separate group of people that are -- 19 that deal with this volunteer fire issue? That would include 20 the Sheriff and me and fire chief of Ingram, and et cetera, 21 et cetera, and so forth and so forth. And just send out the 22 e-mail. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're getting off the agenda. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I'll put it on 25 Monday's agenda. 12-3-07 65 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Every time Buster talks, Rex 2 tries to shut you down. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster's the one that started 4 this. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I started it. This 7 time I started it. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Put it on the agenda. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't do that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I lit the fire. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good idea, 12 Buster. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll set this up? Work 15 with Jody. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's putting it on the 17 agenda. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And it hasn't been eight years since 19 you've had a good idea? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is not. I had a thought 21 yesterday. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A thought. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: As Jon mentioned, we went to a 12-3-07 66 1 meeting of county officials down in Kendall County at Joshua 2 Springs Park, I believe is the name of the place. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Park? Yeah, park, that's 4 right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know the purchase price. 7 Five. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Five million? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12,000 an acre for that piece 10 of property. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: A little over 400 acres Kendall 12 County bought. Nice park. Nice park. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nice home. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Sits up at the top of the 15 hill. Those of you that drive out 10 to San Antonio, just to 16 the west, the bottom of the hill, just before proceeding 17 east, you go over the next hill, and at the bottom you make 18 the Welfare exit, you see the creek coming through there. 19 That's it right there on the right. You look off high on a 20 hill, there's this huge stone structure. That is the -- park 21 headquarters? Meeting place? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Meeting place, I think. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All paved roads. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: A couple of dams and creeks and 12-3-07 67 1 springs, and pretty nice park. I'm -- I wish Commissioner 2 Williams could have been there so he could incorporate that 3 into his thinking for our parks plan. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Gorgeous place. It really is a 6 gorgeous place. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that on the right as you're 8 going towards San Antonio? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Kendall County owns it? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, they bought it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Kendall County purchased it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From who? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The seller. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seller. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who owned -- Letz, you 17 didn't own that, did you? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like they took a bunch 20 of property over on the tax rolls, to me. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked a Commissioner at the 22 meeting what they paid for the property, and he said they 23 have not disclosed it yet because they were still looking at 24 acquiring additional property and didn't want to get the 25 price out, and they would disclose the purchase price later. 12-3-07 68 1 Which I didn't argue with them. They -- but they said the 2 asking price was six million for it, which comes out to about 3 14,5 an acre. I happened to ask my father-in-law that 4 evening what the purchase price was, and he knew right what 5 it was. It was five million. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What is the real purpose? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just to have a park? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They put a bond issue up before 10 the voters three or four years ago, and it passed, to buy 11 park land. And it was -- they spent the majority of their 12 funds on this one piece of property, and it's a -- they're 13 going to put in some recreational areas, hiking trails. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Going to put the ag and 4-H -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ag Barn. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- operations there on the northwest 17 portion of that property. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But by the time all is said and 19 done, I suspect they're going to have invested in this 20 property probably close to 6, 7 million, 8 million dollars, 21 based on what they've said. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. Of 23 course, every time I ask one, I'm getting out of bounds, but 24 I'm going to ask it anyway. So, that was a three-county -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four. 12-3-07 69 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five-county? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was Hill Country counties. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hill Country counties. And 4 y'all were provided some food. Now, who paid for the food? 5 Was it taxpayers' money? How do they do that? We can't do 6 that here. But they do it down there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't buy parks, either. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wasn't it sponsored by Hays 9 County? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Partner. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the Hays County Judge and Burnet 14 County Judge, and there was one other that -- that initiated 15 the meeting. It was -- the place was hosted by Kendall 16 County; apparently, it was their facility, and the -- the 17 luncheon was provided by a restaurant in Boerne that catered 18 it, notwithstanding the fact that there was a gorgeous 19 gourmet kitchen in this facility. It was quite nice. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Excellent. The food was very 21 good. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had jambalaya or something, 24 and -- and clam chowder, and unbelievable cherry apple pie. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12-3-07 70 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow, you missed it, 2 Commissioner. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, now. Yeah, I 4 missed it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorneys were invited. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What a time to be hunting. I 7 screwed up. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was an interesting meeting, 9 though. It was -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was out kicking the tires 11 of the juvenile detention facility. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we a member of this 14 group? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a very loose group at this 16 point. I left after lunch. The Judge stayed. I'm not 17 sure -- I think the plan was for them to meet on a somewhat 18 regular basis. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was there a sign-up fee to 20 attend this? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was hosted by -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they expect Kerr County 24 to host the meeting at some point? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe eventually, we'll probably be 12-3-07 71 1 faced with that. The next one's going to be held in January 2 in Burnet County. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When it comes our turn, are 4 we going to, like, borrow Shelton's old place out here and -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- play like it's ours? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to borrow something. 8 It was -- I thought it was a good meeting. It was a good 9 venue just to get around and meet and talk to other 10 commissioners and judges, you know. To me, they're a little 11 bit too control-oriented for me, but, you know, it's just my 12 personal feeling. That's how most of them were going; they 13 just want to -- it's -- my perception was that most of the 14 commissioners and judges said they wanted to increase -- 15 great increase -- greatly increase authority from the 16 Legislature to act more like cities. That's what most of 17 them felt; that sums it up. And I think that probably the 18 Judge and I were probably the two least inclined to go down 19 that road. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that sounds like Hays 21 and Kendall County. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Comal, Kendall, Hays, Blanco. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gillespie. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Burnet. You know, you got those 25 high growth, close to MSA counties. There wasn't much from 12-3-07 72 1 the south, were there? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You had -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bandera, right? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bandera, Gillespie, Kimble, 5 Real. But, no, there was kind of -- no one went south of 6 Bandera. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Edwards was there, by golly, yeah. 8 Nick was there. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Laws are different in the 10 south. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They already have all those 13 controls. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was an interesting meeting. 15 They had a falconry demonstration at lunch. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw that. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Real beneficial to county 18 government. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder who paid for that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They mentioned something about doing 22 some private fundraising, Buster. I'm not sure what the 23 particulars were. But -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They wanted you to be the 25 treasurer. (Laughter.) 12-3-07 73 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't they -- didn't I 2 read recently, Judge, where Kendall County put their economic 3 development guy on a tighter leash in terms of having to seek 4 Commissioners Court approvals for subdivisions that they 5 might be promoting and things of that nature? Didn't I read 6 that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I saw something in the newspaper 8 about some controls they were wanting to impose. I saw Dan 9 Rogers the following day on Friday, and didn't get an 10 opportunity to talk to him about that, 'cause I was running 11 late to make another meeting over in Medina County. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it, gentlemen? We'll be 14 adjourned. 15 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 10:35 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-3-07 74 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 5th day of December, 8 2007. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-3-07