1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, January 28, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 28, 2008 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request from Pastor Santos Ortiz on behalf of Vineyard Christian Fellowship to use Union Church 5 building on a regular basis for church services 13 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 authorize Human Resources Department to seek applicants for open position of Department Head 7 for Court Compliance Department (Executive Session) -- 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on tying 8 allowance to those who decline participation in Kerr County basic health benefits program to the 9 premium amount paid by retirees for participation in Kerr County basic health benefits program 19 10 1.4 Complaint from Mr. and Mrs. Lara concerning the handling of OSSF issues 20 11 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from St. Peter's School to utilize the 12 Youth Exhibit Center at a reduced rate for the "St. Peter's Spring Fling" on May 1, 2008 40 13 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on fee schedule for Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 14 Regulations 42 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 revise Infamous 1169, Vol. 8, Page 10; release Letter of Credit and set a public hearing if needed 45 16 1.7 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 5A & 5B of Grotto Springs Ranches 1 50 17 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for the concept of Jack Hall Lot 44-C-1 (unrecorded) 51 18 1.8 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Lots 14KR & 15, Falling Water 58 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for revision of plat for Lots 14KR & 15, Falling Water 59 20 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request by Kerrville VA Medical Center for water 21 well sanitary easement on Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility property 61 22 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action concerning Road & Bridge vehicle policy 69 23 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from Kerr County YMCA to utilize the 24 Union Church Building at a reduced rate 80 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 25 appoint Bud Fawcett as a new member to ESD #1 and reappoint Johnnie Hawkins, both for 2-year terms 84 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 28, 2008 2 PAGE 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding 3 the annual maintenance agreement with ABA Moriah Corporation for the Printonix P5209 printer located 4 in the Tax Office 85 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept 5 the annual racial profiling report for fiscal year 2007 85 6 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for right-of-way on Wilson Creek Road and how it 7 relates to Kerr County subdivision platting 87 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on the 8 Capital Projects Preliminary List for inclusion in the Capital Improvement Loan 95 9 1.20 Presentation of audits on the following departments: Tax Assessor Collector, ESD No. 2, 10 Mountain Home VFD, County Clerk, District Clerk 111 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 authorize participation in TexPool and designating authorized representative 113 12 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on personnel/Leonard Odom (Executive Session) --- 13 14 4.1 Pay Bills 116 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 15 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 124 16 5.1 Reports from Commissioners 124 17 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 129 18 --- Adjourned 130 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, January 28, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court which was scheduled and 10 posted for this date and time, Monday, January 28th, 2008, at 11 9 a.m. It is a bit past that time now. Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would everyone please stand 13 join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this time, 16 if there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard 17 on a matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to 18 come forward at this time. If you wish to be heard on an 19 agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation form. 20 They can be found normally at the rear of the room. If 21 they're not there, why, we'll try and scare some up for you. 22 At any rate, if you wish to be heard on an agenda item and 23 haven't filed a participation form, get my attention in some 24 way or fashion when we get to that item and I'll see that 25 you're -- you have an opportunity to be heard. But right 1-28-08 5 1 now, if there's anybody that wishes to be heard on any matter 2 that is not a listed agenda item, please feel free to come 3 forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing 4 no one coming forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Letz, 5 what do you got for us today? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just seems like a lot's 7 happened since the last time we were here. Been a busy 8 couple of weeks. I know we had a successful stock show. I'd 9 like to thank all the buyers that came out to that to make it 10 a -- we didn't just break the record by a little bit; just 11 knocked the socks off of it, over $100,000 higher than 12 previous years, so it's about a 12, 13 percent increase, 13 which is phenomenal. Thank everyone there. Thank all the 14 kids that participated, all the volunteers. I think it went 15 very smooth, from what I could tell when I was out there. 16 And -- and I think the rotating the jobs around a little 17 bit -- Bruce and I kind of split the hogs up this year. 18 Makes it a lot easier than having to be in the hog barn all 19 day. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For two days. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For two days. Other than that, 22 we just had a little bit of a break, were able to get some 23 burning done in a lot of areas around the county. I'm 24 probably going to put it back on this afternoon to go back in 25 tomorrow, 'cause I think it's a very windy day. Unless we 1-28-08 6 1 get some appreciable rain today, which we may, but I doubt. 2 Other than that, you'll probably hear a little bit of a frog 3 in my throat. We've been round and round with stuff at our 4 household, and I've been skirting around the edge of it; 5 hopefully I won't get anything worse than just a little bit 6 of raspy throat. Karen's got it worse than I; she's home 7 sick herself, but the kids are better, though. That's about 8 it, everything's that's going around. Bruce? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, all I would say is I'm 11 going to -- I've already put the burn ban back on because of 12 the windy conditions. I don't believe we're going to get 13 much appreciable rain. And Ray Lynch, besides that, called 14 me from Ingram and asked to do it. I think they had three, 15 four fires burning in the county somewhere yesterday, and he 16 was helping Kerrville on one of their fires. Another 17 instance where our volunteers back up the city of Kerrville. 18 Sometimes they don't have but one vehicle available for us. 19 But, anyway, I'm going to put it back on, and a lot of people 20 did get a lot of burning done during the time we had. And, 21 yes, the shock show was, I believe, a total success, and 22 hopefully we can do something with that facility in the 23 coming years to enhance the operation of it and use of it. 24 That's it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 1-28-08 7 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Burn ban is on in Precinct 2 1. We got a report this morning that we can expect some high 3 winds today. Not tomorrow, but today. And the conditions 4 out there with that wind, you know, it -- grass dries real 5 fast, so we put it back on this morning already, and -- and 6 until further notice. That's all. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess it's probably time 9 to put it back on in Precinct 2 as well, since I don't think 10 the wind is going to blow in 1, 3 and 4 and miss 2. 11 (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we'll do that. As soon 13 as Jody comes in, we'll put it back on effective noon today 14 until further notice. Again, my congratulations to the good 15 folks at Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show for an 16 excellent event. They do it -- they do a great job every 17 year. I'm not sure how they do it with all the kids and 18 animals they have to work with, but they manage to get it 19 done, and they do it very well. I'm sure the Judge will have 20 more to say about this in a minute, but he and I had a full 21 day of economic development on Thursday, starting at 7 a.m. 22 in the morning and ending at 7:30 that night, which we kind 23 of climaxed a year of events, and I know Judge Tinley will 24 have more to say about that. Just the very beginning of 25 what's in store for us and what we have to do. And we'll be 1-28-08 8 1 talking about that a little bit later, so that's kind of 2 where we are. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pass the bananas to you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're right, Commissioner, 6 we -- we presented to the public last Thursday evening a 7 Kerrville/Kerr County Economic Development Strategy strategic 8 plan. That has actually been in the works for a little more 9 than a year and a half now, pursuant to a joint resolution of 10 the Kerrville City Council and this Court, and it's my belief 11 that we have followed the mandate of that resolution. And, 12 as Commissioner Williams said, this plan is the first step in 13 the process of successful economic development. Copies of 14 the plan were delivered to each member of the Court, and 15 you'll have a little time to digest it. Commissioner 16 Williams and I will be bringing it to you shortly for your 17 approval and adoption in order that we might move on to the 18 next step that's called for in that process. 19 But we have a number of -- of people working on the 20 plan. There were a total of nine on the committee; two from 21 this Court, Commissioner Williams and myself, two Council 22 members from the City Council, and five very active and 23 interested individuals throughout the community, and plus we 24 had a number of resources that we called upon for their 25 interest and experience and expertise in various areas. And 1-28-08 9 1 then we had the assistance of a -- a nationally recognized 2 consultant, TXP Incorporated. And as part of that whole 3 process, as I'm sure most of you remember, this past summer 4 there was a pretty comprehensive community survey, business 5 survey that was done seeking the input from all sectors of 6 the community from the entirety of this county, and we tried 7 -- in fact, we went to a lot of groups and a lot of employers 8 and -- and organizations in order to obtain their input 9 rather than just stand idly and let them come to us. We -- 10 we wanted to be as inclusive as possible. 11 But we've -- we've got the first step in place. We 12 need to adopt that and then move on from there in order to 13 properly execute this plan. So, we look forward to hearing 14 from the citizens about their thoughts as we go forward on 15 this process, and we want you to feel free to contact us, 16 particularly Commissioner Williams and myself or your City 17 Council representatives, if -- if you reside in the city. Or 18 if you don't reside in the city, as far as that goes. But we 19 want you to stay a part of this entire process, because it 20 affects each one of you, and -- and we're hoping that we can 21 bring this thing about in an orderly and appropriate manner. 22 That's all I've got. We'll get on with -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I make a comment 24 about that? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 1-28-08 10 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of wanted to wait 2 till you got through so I could say something about that 3 program. If any of you guys ever say that I agreed with a 4 lawyer, I'm going to call you a liar, but I'm -- I'm actually 5 doing that now. Judge Tinley's been carrying the mantle for 6 some time now about this issue of a balance between business 7 properties and family dwellings, and how it's out completely 8 and totally out of balance. And I saw his comments in the 9 paper; it may take us 20 years to get that back where it -- 10 it should be, and I couldn't agree with you more. I think 11 that is -- to me, that is the single most important issue in 12 this entire program that is being put together, and I think 13 that us, as members of this Commissioners Court, county 14 fathers and leaders, we need to carry that -- carry that 15 message out to the public. Maybe we can whittle that 20 16 years down to 18 or something. But I just wanted to say to 17 you that I agree with you, and I think that that is a very, 18 very important issue. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. I don't know how many 20 of y'all heard of this, but -- it wasn't in Kerr County, but 21 Kendall County just got awarded -- or announced a computer 22 manufacturer of some sort, I believe, a company with 300 new 23 jobs coming into Kendall County. Largest event of this type 24 ever in Kendall County, and I think that's a very good sign 25 for us. It -- I think those types of industries attract each 1-28-08 11 1 other. And I'm not sure exactly where they're going to be 2 located in Kendall County, but I would suspect it's going to 3 be very close to I-10. And I think that's the type of thing 4 that -- that was done, you know, announcement at their 5 development person late last week or over the weekend; I 6 can't remember when that was, but that's good news, and 7 that's the type of thing that I think the Judge has been 8 stressing that we need in this area. Whether it goes -- you 9 know, I'd rather have it in Kerr County than Kendall County, 10 but, you know, I'm glad to have it in Kendall county. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's amazing that you mention 12 that. Here about a year ago, we actually formed sort of a 13 regional alliance with Bandera, Gillespie, and Kendall, and 14 the reason we did that is it's no longer -- economic 15 development is no longer a competition of county to county. 16 We have a lot of similar factors that interplay with economic 17 development with all three of those counties, and there is 18 more strength by looking at it on a regional basis, 19 particularly when you get to the issues of vocational and 20 work force training. You could be more successful in -- in 21 gathering that if you have a draw from, say, all four of 22 those counties, if it's accessible to all of those. So, it's 23 -- with the mobility of the population and work force moving 24 back and forth, it's extremely important that we look at it 25 on a more regional basis, and that grew out of a strategic 1-28-08 12 1 plan that -- that we participated in with the Alamo Area 2 Council of Governments, and we kind of projected that forward 3 and we formed this regional alliance, as it were, and we 4 continue to work for those. And Dan Rogers in Kendall County 5 has done a fabulous job down there, and this is a really 6 major score for him. It really is. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, whatever good news, 8 however, is embodied in that announcement -- and there is a 9 lot of good news in that, and there is some things we can 10 draw on and strength from that we could think about in the 11 future -- it doesn't take from the fact that we have some 12 very core problems we have to deal with. If we were to dump 13 300 new jobs in Kerr County right now, today, where would 14 they be housed? Case in point. And so there are a lot of 15 things we need to be dealing with in the future to help us 16 prepare ourselves for the advent of something that -- as 17 major as that coming. Yet everybody may have been reading 18 about what's going on in Bexar County with their Rackspace 19 thing, where they took over Windsor Park Mall. That is a 20 major, major thing, and there's going to be a lot of fallout 21 from that that's going to come, and maybe the Kendall County 22 thing is part of it; I don't know. But anytime you infuse 23 3,000 jobs in one location over a space of time, that is -- 24 that is huge. That is major. And so a lot of good things 25 are beginning to develop. 1-28-08 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Stay tuned. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Stay tuned. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your participation. 4 Let's move on. We have a 9 o'clock timed item; it's a bit 5 past that now. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 6 a request from Pastor Santos Ortiz, on behalf of Vineyard 7 Christian Fellowship, to use the Union Church building on a 8 regular basis for church services. Pastor Ortiz? 9 MR. ORTIZ: Yes, sir. Good morning, Judge. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 11 MR. ORTIZ: Commissioners. It really is inspiring 12 to be here this morning. The fact that you would open the 13 agenda to us and hear our requests, and just really inspired 14 to know that we have that sort of backing, that recognition, 15 and as we make our requests this morning. And our purpose is 16 to -- on June the 4th of 2006, we inaugurated a Christian 17 fellowship church, non-affiliated, and we are looking for a 18 more permanent place to meet. And somebody mentioned that 19 the Union Church building was like a bride waiting, and it 20 really struck me, and so I took it from there. And I called 21 your office, and they went ahead and put us on the agenda. 22 And I repeat, we're looking for a place where we could meet 23 on a more regular basis as we establish our cash flow and we 24 get established within the community, get some form of 25 recognition as we go about our business of helping lives to 1-28-08 14 1 grow in their faith and for us to be built up as a church. 2 And, as I say, we're about a year and eight months old, and 3 things are moving forward. We have about 40 people and about 4 12, 15 children, and it's just really inspiring to be 5 experiencing those things. I have some documentation about 6 our articles of incorporation, our EIN application. We have 7 gotten our tax number, et cetera, and we have our statement 8 of faith that I would like to give you, if I may approach 9 the -- the bench this morning, give you a copy. And we also 10 have a printed brochure that, obviously, needs to be updated 11 as far as location and schedule of meetings. If you please? 12 (Audience member sneezed.) 13 AUDIENCE: Bless you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear that? "Bless 15 you," now that a preacher's in the house. (Laughter.) Are 16 you ready to take comments from us, or are we going to 17 discuss this? 18 MR. ORTIZ: No, I don't think we should get into 19 that. I mean, you know, unless it would be a Bible study. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, looks like -- looks 21 like we -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like you're preparing 23 us for that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate that. I love 25 this stuff here. 1-28-08 15 1 MR. ORTIZ: Okay. You may ask questions, yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, I don't have 3 any questions; I'm just going to make a comment. I'm going 4 to tell you where I'm at right up front, and my answer is no 5 to this issue. Because I look at the -- nothing against you, 6 or nothing against the church or against -- I'm a church guy. 7 But I just see that our Union Church was put together by all 8 these folks, donated to the County and put together by 9 volunteers, and it's set up for use of all members of the 10 community. 11 MR. ORTIZ: Exactly. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not just a single church or 13 a single group of any sort. That anybody that wants to rent 14 the place to have a wedding or -- and we -- and we do have -- 15 I don't know what all we have there, but -- 16 MR. ORTIZ: Yes, sir, I've officiated at one. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, good. Yeah. And in 18 my mind, that's the way I want to keep it. I want to keep 19 that so it's open to all members of the community, and I -- I 20 don't want to get it tied down to any one particular 21 anything. 22 MR. ORTIZ: Yes, sir. May I respond to that? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certainly. 24 MR. ORTIZ: Okay. I believe what really prompted 25 us to make that request -- I had hesitated all these nearly 1-28-08 16 1 two years in doing so, 'cause I knew it was kind of a 2 historical place, more like a museum, perhaps, and so I kept 3 away from it. I said I wouldn't dare want to jeopardize that 4 image. But then, when I finally felt the inspiration and I 5 made the call, I wasn't going to be pressured or pursue it 6 anyway, understanding that. Though when you have a wedding, 7 when you have an activity in such a beautiful and traditional 8 looking place like that, I truly believe that if we could 9 maintain that neutral position, nondenominational, 10 what-have-you, that perhaps a ceremony or a wedding does to 11 that beautiful building, I believe that a traditional church 12 service could also complement that, and instead of seeing it 13 silent on Sunday morning, perhaps see a church service there, 14 the people with their attire and their ties and their 15 beautiful Sunday-best dresses. I thought that perhaps it 16 would complement the place. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We appreciate your point of 18 view, Mr. Ortiz -- 19 MR. ORTIZ: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and your desire, 21 perhaps, to do that, but I think you have to take a look at 22 the history of how that building got to where it is, and in 23 the condition that it is today. 24 MR. ORTIZ: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was -- I believe the 1-28-08 17 1 word was de-sanctified as a sanctuary decades ago. It sat 2 idle. 3 MR. ORTIZ: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And went into major 5 disrepair in another location in town, hadn't been used by a 6 church congregation since almost the early 1900's -- '20's 7 and '30's, and sat in disrepair. It became a gift to the 8 Historical Commission by a gentleman as a private donation 9 and gift. The Historical Commission accepted that, and then 10 the Friends of the Historical Commission began the process of 11 raising money to restore it and move it. They raised better 12 than $350,000 for that purpose, private money. There are no 13 tax dollars in there. If there were tax dollars in there, 14 there would be another reason why you couldn't use it, but 15 that's not the case. The pledge that those people made in 16 terms of getting that money was that this building, once 17 restored and put into permanent location on the Schreiner 18 University campus, would become a public events facility. It 19 is named the Union Church Building because that's what it 20 was. 21 MR. ORTIZ: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But it is not intended to 23 be a church. 24 MR. ORTIZ: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Having a wedding there, 1-28-08 18 1 great. Have a meeting there, super. But services on a 2 regular basis, I think, is counterproductive to the intention 3 and the promises that were made by the people who raised that 4 money. 5 MR. ORTIZ: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I support Commissioner 7 Baldwin's position; I would not vote to do that on a regular 8 basis. You want to schedule a wedding for your niece? Go 9 ahead. 10 MR. ORTIZ: Okay. Also, if I may add, it would be 11 on a temporary basis. It would not be anything permanent. 12 We are seeing about a year, perhaps 18 months, and then we 13 would cease meeting there. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I basically -- I share their 15 point of view. I mean, no reason to state it again. I wish 16 you success in your endeavor with your church and 17 congregation, but I think that the -- there's a lot of 18 conditions that kind of came with that -- they may not be 19 written, but with that building, and I -- I don't think it's 20 really an appropriate use to have it set up for just one 21 entity. But I do wish you all the success. 22 MR. ORTIZ: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're doing very well. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I feel the same way Jonathan 1-28-08 19 1 does. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 3 motion to offer in connection with this item? Thank you, 4 sir. 5 MR. ORTIZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your time in being 7 here. 8 MR. ORTIZ: Thanks. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move on to Item 2; consider, 10 discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Human Resources 11 Department to seek application for open position of 12 department head, Court Compliance Department. I note that is 13 intended to be an executive session item. Is there anything 14 that needs to be considered in open or public session? Let's 15 roll it to the end so that we don't disrupt folks here, and 16 quickly take up Item 3; consider, discuss, take appropriate 17 action on tying the allowance to those who decline 18 participation in Kerr County basic health benefits program to 19 the premium amount paid by retirees for participation in Kerr 20 County basic health benefits program. Ms. Hyde? 21 MS. HYDE: As you all well know, last year when we 22 did the first ever opt-out allowance for employees, we also 23 said that the opt-out -- we could reimburse for supplemental 24 insurance for those participants up to $105, which is exactly 25 the same as what the payments are. This year when we did 1-28-08 20 1 that, we didn't specifically state that we would up the 2 opt-outs to 135, just like the payment is, so I'm just asking 3 that you guys -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 7 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We have a 13 9:15 timed item. We're a bit late getting to it, but we'll 14 go ahead and call that item now. Complaint from Mr. and 15 Mrs. Lara concerning the handling of O.S.S.F. issues. 16 Commissioner Letz, you placed this on the agenda. Any 17 introductory comments? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a couple of 19 comments. I met with the Laras, I believe, a week, 10 days 20 ago, something like that. They asked to be put on the 21 agenda. In a nutshell, a little bit of background. They own 22 some property up on Roy Street. There were some issues with 23 their neighbor having a failing septic system. It's been 24 ongoing for, I guess, over a year now. It's been looked at 25 by Environmental Health Department, and they feel that it's 1-28-08 21 1 been, you know, appropriately taken care of and handled. 2 County Attorney's been involved, and has -- I think feels 3 likewise. I know they've also visited -- I think we got a 4 letter from Headwaters last year regarding some well issues 5 on the property. I think it's been, you know, handled 6 properly, but I certainly want to give the Laras an 7 opportunity to talk to the whole Court, and I'll turn it over 8 to Ms. Lara. 9 MS. LARA: I would like to give a brief history of 10 this problem, because a lot of the facts you've stated are 11 incorrect. My name is Elsa Lara. My family and I live at 12 323 Roy Street, 1,000 feet outside of the Kerrville city 13 limits. In my neighborhood, everyone has their own septic 14 and well. And the two homes directly next door to mine were 15 sold to a Mr. Garces at a rock-bottom price after the well 16 tested positive for E. coli due to a failing septic. 17 Mr. Garces was supposed to fix the septic and never did, and 18 the water was last -- the last test shows E. coli, and he 19 moved families into these homes and they began drinking this 20 water. When the septic kept backing up, Mr. Garces placed 21 several pipes around the home to discharge the sewage on top 22 of the ground. 23 Back in November of 2004, we filed our first 24 complaint with Kerr County Environmental Health Department. 25 The sewage began to seep onto our property. Patricia Hulett, 1-28-08 22 1 an employee of the county, was the inspector assigned to the 2 case, and in spite of repeated complaints by my husband and 3 several documented visits, the sewage discharge continued for 4 years. It protracted the driveway becoming a sewage swamp 5 30-something feet away from our well. The septic would 6 overflow right by the home, and raw sewage would surface 7 right, you know, next to our driveway. The tenants would 8 walk through there to get to their home. Mind you, the 9 inspector is documenting the sewage is still being 10 discharged. One tenant who was pregnant indicated to us that 11 the fumes were giving her headaches -- she called them 12 "fumes" -- and that they were giving her headaches, and the 13 stench would cause her to vomit so much, she had to move away 14 so she wouldn't lose her baby. Others indicated they 15 experienced severe vomiting, severe diarrhea, and swollen 16 hands and feet. One man became so bloated, he appeared to be 17 nine months pregnant. These are all symptoms of waterborne 18 illness. 19 I would like to read two of Inspector Hulett's 20 documented notes. This was May of '06, almost two years 21 after we first complained. And they -- the secretary told 22 her it had been 30 days -- they had 30 days to put the 23 system. It had been months and they hadn't heard anything, 24 and she discussed this with Inspector Hulett, and she said, 25 The site will be inspected before -- for progress before any 1-28-08 23 1 decision to hurry up this process is made. The next month, 2 she did a follow-up inspection; she noted nothing had been 3 done. The toilets were overflowing, sewage was still being 4 discharged, so she went back and called the installer for a 5 progress report, and July, August, September, October, 6 November, December, no action was taken by the Kerr County 7 Environmental Health Department, and this continued to 8 worsen. People continued to be sickened. Finally, in March 9 or April 2007, the new septic was installed and new tenants 10 moved in. 11 By May, they stopped us in our driveway and showed 12 us their water. It was filthy and disgusting. They 13 indicated they had experienced severe vomiting, diarrhea, 14 swollen hands and feet due to their water. They had tested 15 their water, and they'd been told not to wash their clothes 16 in it, not to bathe in it, not to drink it, so they moved 17 away. We tested our water and were told by U.G.R.A. that at 18 65 of total coliform, it was significant and could cause a 19 health problem. I contacted Kerr County Environmental Health 20 Department, Jonathan Letz, Bruce Oehler. I attempted to tell 21 Buster Baldwin, the County Attorney, Judge Pat Tinley, 22 U.G.R.A., and Headwaters. I told you everything I knew. And 23 Mr. Garces finally pumped the waste from the old septic tank. 24 The Kerr County Environmental Health Department came out, 25 tested Mr. Garces' well water, and described it -- and I 1-28-08 24 1 quote -- it was brown in color, dirty looking, and it had 2 sediment in it, and was positive for total coliform. And it 3 was cheaper, so no counts were performed on this water. 4 The inspector who first came out reported back to 5 you, "It would not be to the County's advantage to prolong 6 this any longer; Mrs. Lara may be seeking legal action." I 7 don't want your money. I've never hired an attorney in any 8 part of the county; I have no intention to. I only want some 9 help. After a lot of back and forth from U.G.R.A., U.G.R.A. 10 finally came out, tested my water, and it had -- they kept 11 insisting I didn't do it right. They had 685 of total 12 coliform. I asked Ray Buck, the manager of U.G.R.A., what 13 that meant, if they told me 65 was significant and could 14 cause a health problem, and now I had 687. He said, "We 15 don't have time to educate you on what that means." 16 Mr. Garces never obtained a permit to operate the new system, 17 and when he called Inspector Hulett and stated he was not 18 able to get the final plans, Inspector Hulett had the 19 designer draw them up from her rough sketch and issued the 20 permit to operate to Mr. Garces, and he was free to rent it 21 again. The plans don't accurately show the location of the 22 septic, the alarms, the drainfield, any of it. You can come 23 and measure it and look for yourself. 24 No remediation was ever done to the polluted area, 25 and this was no small area of pollution. It included a 1-28-08 25 1 concrete trough that gathered sewage above ground, which is 2 still present today. The children who live there now play 3 where the septic tank overflowed for so many years, and if 4 they are not supposed to drink it -- drink the water, no one 5 told them, because when they would play there, they would 6 spray the water into the air and catch it in their mouths. 7 Not one of the previous sickened neighbors were ever 8 contacted by the County. And my entire experience for years 9 has been that any effort to obtain help from Kerr County 10 Environmental Health Department or this county government has 11 resulted in my family -- the victims have been treated like 12 lunatics or criminals. Ilse Bailey, at a meeting, stated to 13 me that dumping the sewage was a Class C misdemeanor 14 punishable by a fine of $500 a day. They would probably just 15 charge Mr. Garces only $500, since they hadn't been too hard 16 on others in the past and he could claim he'd been 17 discriminated against. 18 Kerr County Environmental Health inspectors went 19 out approximately 15 times, and he was charged nothing. 20 Everyone is -- could be charged up to $50 for each additional 21 inspection, and the file is about this thick. I had to 22 involve several other agencies so that it would finally stop, 23 and people are still living there. Let me tell you, if you 24 live in Kerr County and you write a hot check, you will be 25 found at all costs and you will be prosecuted. If you dump 1-28-08 26 1 solid waste by the city park, you will go to jail. But if 2 you move unsuspecting families into a home with E. coli 3 contaminated water, you know, if you operate a failing 4 septic, you dump raw sewage on the ground, and you make a 5 swamp of sewage in your driveway, people can be sickened, 6 vomit blood, and if the inspector who should have stopped it 7 didn't, these fine people will act like you're a lunatic when 8 your water becomes contaminated, your family and your 9 neighbors become sick, and you become angry. 10 I was told I had never produced the sick people, 11 but I guarantee, if one person had claimed to be sick from 12 Milton Taylor's pollution, this county would have searched 13 the world over and brought them in. Inspector Hulett's duty 14 was to enforce the laws and stop the public health violations 15 immediately. It takes three days to install a septic, and it 16 took over three years. It could have took even ten years; I 17 don't care. The pollution should have stopped immediately. 18 That's the law. And it didn't. People got hurt. My family 19 got hurt. My neighbors' kids both tested positive for 20 illness, and you don't care. Are any -- are the neighboring 21 wells safe? Are the children next door safe? It's whatever 22 sickened people in our water supply -- and I really don't 23 care about the sewage, if you don't believe it came from the 24 sewage. Something made a lot of people sick, and no one will 25 look into it. The water looks brown in color. Your county 1-28-08 27 1 tested the water, and it's dirty looking; it's brown, and 2 children are living there. I feel like their health is in 3 danger, and I feel like the water supply may be polluted, and 4 the laws were not followed. There is a proper procedure 5 outlined by T.C.E.Q. what an inspector should do when she 6 finds these violations. None of that was followed. And 7 that's all. I just -- I haven't been helped. I feel there's 8 children in danger. Children have been medically documented, 9 found sick. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 11 questions for Ms. Lara? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She referred to lunatics. 15 Who are these lunatics? Am I a lunatic? 16 MS. LARA: Sir, I've been made to feel that way. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you have been -- you -- 18 so you're not calling one of us -- 19 MS. LARA: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- calling us lunatics? 21 MS. LARA: No. I feel like you treat me like I am. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lady, I've never seen you 23 before. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nor have I. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't treat you any way. 1-28-08 28 1 MS. LARA: Mr. Oehler, did Buster Baldwin not see 2 me there that day when you were there, me and you? She was 3 also present. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't remember that. I 5 mean, you've seen me several times. 6 MS. LARA: Yes. And I saw you also, sir, and we 7 spoke there. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 MS. LARA: But it didn't matter to you. That's why 10 you don't remember. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that could be. That 12 could be. But I just wanted to make clear who this lunatic 13 is you're referring to. 14 MS. LARA: I feel like you treat me like I am, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I apologize. I 16 certainly didn't mean to treat you like a lunatic, whatever 17 that is. Sorry. 18 MS. LARA: That's not what's important here. 19 What's important is this problem -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you telling us the 21 problem is not resolved? Is that what you're telling us? 22 MS. LARA: Not -- no, sir, I don't think it's 23 resolved, when children have dirty drinking water, when their 24 water looks brown in color and is dirty looking, and the 25 County is the ones who found that and got his permit for him 1-28-08 29 1 when he couldn't get it himself, so that he could hurry up 2 and rent it again to another family. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is your water safe? 4 MS. LARA: I don't believe this ground water is 5 coming up safe. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I mean the water -- the 7 domestic water that your family uses in your domicile. Is it 8 safe? 9 MS. LARA: I don't believe the ground water coming 10 up from my well is safe, no. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know? 12 MS. LARA: Yes, I know. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has it been tested? 14 MS. LARA: Yes, the County tested my water. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What were the results of 16 the test? 17 MS. LARA: It was 685 of total coliform. It should 18 be zero. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When was that tested? 20 MS. LARA: September of 2007. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick comment here. I don't 22 want to get into this. The County did not test the water. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know that. 24 MS. LARA: U.G.R.A. tested the water. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County has no authority 1-28-08 30 1 over the ground water. You've talked to Headwaters. In 2 fact, they have a board member here today. So, I mean, it's 3 a -- you know, the ground water issue is nothing that the 4 County has to do with. We have not ever tested the water 5 from the county standpoint. Other entities -- 6 MS. LARA: You tested Mr. Garces' water. Yes, sir, 7 you did. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have not tested your well 9 water. And bottom line is, T.C.E.Q. has looked into the 10 allegations, Environmental Health, Mr. Oehler's looked into 11 it. I visited with you several times by phone, and one 12 meeting. I know the County Attorney's office is looking into 13 it. And -- 14 MS. LARA: No ever contacted the people that were 15 sickened. You refuse. I've offered the phone number. 16 Nobody will just simply ask them, "Were you sickened when you 17 lived there? Did you your kids get sick? Did you vomit 18 blood? Did you have bloody diarrhea? Did your husband's 19 stomach swell?" Nobody even bothered to ask. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know I also mentioned 21 that those -- no one has ever contacted us to my knowledge 22 that they were having health problems, and -- 23 MS. LARA: Is there a legal reason why you can't 24 contact them? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to know their names 1-28-08 31 1 first. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to go down -- I 3 mean -- 4 MS. LARA: You refuse to contact them. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lara -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I asked for those names, and 7 you never provided one name. 8 MS. LARA: No, sir, I'll give it to you right now. 9 I've offered it several times. You say that's not necessary. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lara -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not true. 12 MS. LARA: Yes, sir? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Did -- did you or any one of these 14 folks that -- that you say had become ill from those 15 conditions out there contact the county health officer? 16 MS. LARA: Who's that, sir? 'Cause I've asked 17 several times, if you don't -- if you don't have jurisdiction 18 and you can't handle this, send me to someone who can. 19 T.C.E.Q., they looked into it, and then when I tracked my 20 complaint on the internet, they said that contamination was 21 found in my water. They never mentioned the contamination in 22 the next door well. They never mentioned the water was brown 23 in color or dirty looking, none of that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the jurisdiction over the 25 on-site septic facility, of course, falls under the 1-28-08 32 1 Environmental Health Department. The well falls under the 2 jurisdiction of the Headwaters. But if there's -- if there's 3 a concern about a health condition that may be more than just 4 a single instance of a virus or something along that line, 5 that would seem to be a matter that would be appropriately 6 reported to the county health officer. 7 MS. LARA: Was the -- him dumping sewage on the 8 ground and Ms. Patricia Hulett not enforcing the law, was 9 that handled correctly? Was it, yes or no, handled 10 correctly? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Did -- I'm asking the questions, 12 Ms. Lara, if you please. And I've asked you a question to 13 which I've not yet received a response. 14 MS. LARA: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: To your knowledge, was the county 16 health officer ever contacted by you or any of these folks 17 that supposedly had some health problem as a result of some 18 improper condition out there? 19 MS. LARA: I didn't. Did the County ever contact 20 them either? 'Cause I don't know about a health -- I don't 21 know how -- I didn't even know there was one till just this 22 very moment. But did Jonathan Letz or anyone else contact 23 them? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you inquire if there was a 25 county health officer? 1-28-08 33 1 MS. LARA: I asked if there was anybody else I 2 could go to, who I could go to, and I was given all these 3 other places. And I did everything you asked me to do. I 4 was never told about any county health inspector or anything 5 by anybody here. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, -- 7 MS. LARA: Was -- was the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it would occur to me, had 9 someone's doctor been consulted, obviously, the doctor knows 10 that there's a county health officer. If these folks were, 11 in fact, ill and contacted their private physician, -- 12 MS. LARA: It's -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- would that not cause it to be 14 referred -- 15 MS. LARA: If no one knew that it could be related 16 until recently, have you never heard of something slipping 17 through the cracks such as this failing septic system? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, based upon what you've just 19 detailed to me chronologically, this was a matter that 20 certainly wouldn't have escaped attention for -- for that 21 many years. 22 MS. LARA: If I had known you existed, I'd have 23 been up here a long time ago. I didn't know you existed. I 24 didn't know I could come here. But this situation was not 25 handled properly, and many people were exposed to public 1-28-08 34 1 health violations and to danger. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Public health -- matters of public 3 health are properly addressed by the county health officer. 4 MS. LARA: And matters of -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I would certainly encourage you, if 6 you feel like that's the case, that you should contact that 7 individual. Okay? 8 MS. LARA: My issue that I brought before the Court 9 today was how it was improperly -- the O S.S.F. issues were 10 improperly handled by the county health department, and they 11 were. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand your allegations. Mr. 13 Letz has indicated that Texas Commission on Environmental 14 Quality has reviewed this matter. Our Environmental Health 15 Department, which is subject to the technical supervision of 16 T.C.E.Q., has reviewed the matter, and at this point, as best 17 we're able to determine, there is nothing inappropriate out 18 there. 19 MS. LARA: It's normal for children to live with 20 water that is brown in color and dirty looking? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're asking me to assume 22 that fact, and I'm not sure I can do that. 23 MS. LARA: No, sir, it's documented by the county 24 health department. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're still asking me to 1-28-08 35 1 assume that fact. 2 MS. LARA: I still haven't gotten any help. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 4 MS. LARA: Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you coming here today. 6 MS. LARA: Thank you. I just would like everybody 7 to know how people live here. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 9 MR. EMERSON: Judge, if I may? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 MR. EMERSON: I just want to state that the County 12 worked extensively with Headwaters and with U.G.R.A. Each 13 and every department of the County has responded and 14 investigated this complaint, and we've all worked very 15 closely trying to resolve the problems. There's a document 16 that was forwarded by Headwaters last week, and I'd like to 17 read it into the record. This is from Headwaters, and the 18 title of it is, "Will coliform bacteria in water make you 19 sick?" And -- excuse me, the allergies are getting me. 20 "When we find coliform bacteria in your drinking water 21 sample, as stated above, it simply indicates that the source 22 is, or recently has been, compromised by surface water. 23 We're not so concerned about the coliform bacteria 24 themselves, but the red flag, if you will, is that we don't 25 know what else may have gotten into your drinking water 1-28-08 36 1 system via the same route that the coliform bacteria entered. 2 Some types of bad microbes that we don't want you to ingest, 3 for example, would be Klebsiella, Shigella," -- some word I 4 can't pronounce -- "Giardia, or Salmonella, just to name a 5 pesky few. 6 "Most drilled wells are free from coliform 7 bacteria, but many dug wells contain coliform. This is not 8 surprising, since dug wells are a surface water source, which 9 means that it is above the bedrock layer. Dug wells can be 10 an excellent source of drinking water, but extra care should 11 be taken to be sure there is adequate separation from the 12 well with respect to pets, farm animals, and runoff. If you 13 have a dug well, the volume and taste are fine, but it keeps 14 getting coliform bacteria, then a viable and effective option 15 may be to install an ultraviolet disinfection system which 16 kills the bacteria and other microbes by separating or 17 denaturing the DNA or RNA from their cells. This works well, 18 because it doesn't change the chemistry of the water like 19 some other disinfection methods such as chlorination. 20 "However, any water treatment system requires care 21 and monitoring, lest you think it's working when it's not. 22 Further, the presence of surface water in your water supply 23 might mean that other surface contaminants, such as 24 chemicals, are also present. If this is the case, a UV light 25 is not going to remove them. This is why further testing of 1-28-08 37 1 your water may be in order before deciding just what water 2 treatment system should be installed. Finally, if total 3 coliform bacteria is found in a drinking water sample, then 4 the sample is also checked for a type of fecal coliform 5 bacteria, which is always E. coliform or E. coli. The 6 presence of E. coli may mean a septic or leach field 7 infiltration, or in a dug well, it just may be a squirrel or 8 field mouse that tried to make its home in your well." 9 The essence of that article is that the well was 10 tested. Ms. Lara's well was tested with Headwaters, 11 U.G.R.A., and the County all present. It was tested at the 12 wellhead before her chlorination system, and it does not show 13 any E. coli or any type of, you know, bad contamination. 14 MS. LARA: I also got that letter from Headwaters, 15 and added to that page of -- that he just read to you, 16 Headwaters left off the top paragraph, and it says, "While 17 that all may be well and true, drinking water that contains 18 certain contaminants has been one of the leading causes of 19 major disease outbreaks, historically speaking." I contacted 20 the author of this that he just quoted, and he e-mailed me 21 back and said, You should be concerned. Your well has a high 22 bacteria count. The negative on fecal coli just means it's 23 not specifically fecal bacteria. Further, any high bacteria 24 count in a well means surface water is leaking into it, which 25 means any other surface contamination, pesticides, 1-28-08 38 1 fertilizers, road salt, dog pee, whatever, is able to enter 2 that water supply by silicification. Check with your local 3 health department for this correct advice. My opinion is 4 that it is difficult to keep a shallow well sterile. 5 I do not have a shallow well. All that information 6 pertains to a dug well; I have a drilled well. I have -- 7 don't have a shallow well, so that doesn't even pertain to my 8 well, but it does pertain to my neighbors. My opinion, it is 9 -- my opinion is that it is difficult to keep a shallow well 10 sterile. You may need to install a treatment system, or if 11 the well is not giving a good yield anyway -- which it's 12 not -- it is better, perhaps, to drill a modern well, and if 13 that septic is too close to a well, contamination is likely. 14 So, that just -- the well next door did have E. coli; it is a 15 shallow well. It has no disinfection system for the tenants 16 that are living there drinking this water. Others have 17 become ill, and he's saying, yeah, that drainfield's close to 18 your well; contamination was likely. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Your expert also indicated, 20 Ms. Lara, that you should contact your local health 21 department, -- 22 MS. LARA: I just got this last night. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and I encourage you to do that. 24 MR. EMERSON: If I may continue, Judge, the bottom 25 line is we have no compliant on the neighboring property. We 1-28-08 39 1 have no test that shows E. coli in the neighboring well. We 2 have no test showing E. coli in Ms. Lara's well. Multiple 3 agencies have repeatedly asked for that information. 4 Nothing's been provided. And we sent a letter last -- I 5 think it was June, that said we're going to close the 6 investigation unless we receive new evidence of live 7 complainants. Despite closing the investigation, since that 8 time, I couldn't even tell you how many hundreds of hours the 9 County's expended working with the other agencies on this 10 issue. 11 MS. LARA: They worked so hard to get Mr. Garces 12 his permit to operate this system. They just didn't spend 13 one minute finding one of the sick people, and they can if 14 they want to. They chose not to. I don't think it's in the 15 County's best interest to find one, since they allowed this 16 to continue. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Lara. 18 MS. BAILEY: Well, what I want to make clear is 19 that when our office met with Ms. Lara, we said the things 20 that we need to show is a nexus between the -- well, first we 21 need to prove that there was illness. We need a nexus 22 between the alleged illness and any contamination in the 23 well. We need to prove fecal contamination in the well, and 24 we need to prove that that fecal contamination came from the 25 adjacent septic. We've not been able to get any proof of any 1-28-08 40 1 of those items, much less a complainant, so we really don't 2 have the ability to go forward. I understand Ms. Lara's 3 concern about -- about illness, and her perception that the 4 illness is related to some kind of pollution, and her 5 perception that that pollution is related to something from 6 the adjacent property. But -- but we've just simply not been 7 able to establish any of those factors. So, we're here to 8 help the citizens, but we can't help the citizens without the 9 evidence of the necessary complainants and the proper due 10 process. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's move on to the 12 next item. It's a timed item for 9:30. It's a bit past that 13 now, so consider, discuss, take appropriate action on request 14 from St. Peter's School to utilize the Youth Exhibit Center 15 at a reduced rate for the St. Peters Spring Fling on May the 16 1st, 2008. Is Ms. Behrens here? Ms. Grinstead, have you 17 been in contact with that -- with anybody regarding that 18 request? 19 MS. GRINSTEAD: Not this morning. She did say she 20 had a doctor's appointment first, and she thought she could 21 be here by 9:30. That's why she put 9:30. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We may have to return to that 23 item. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I have no problem 25 adding them to the list of nonprofits. 1-28-08 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like all other nonprofits. I 3 mean, I think it qualifies. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it is. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 8 indicated. Question or discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I noticed that the material 12 that's in our backup was provided by Ms. Grinstead. There's 13 a highlighted area there talking about "free of charge" only 14 for the base rental of the facility, et cetera, et cetera, et 15 cetera. Is that what you -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. That's what 17 the motion is, is to -- I think we acted -- or I think I 18 probably made a motion at another court in error the last 19 time we looked at one of these; we gave a reduction. I think 20 our actual policy says that they get the base rate at no 21 charge. All other charges are applicable. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's your motion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And your second, 1-28-08 42 1 Commissioner Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 4 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 9 to Item 6; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 10 fee schedule for the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and 11 Regulations. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda; 13 probably need a little bit of guidance from the Court as to 14 how to proceed. We've had a couple of unusual replats come 15 before the Court recently. And I say "unusual" 'cause 16 there's one -- actually, I guess it's on today. Anyway, Mark 17 Sherron. I don't remember the name of that development. 18 Anyway, what happened on that particular one, the access 19 where the road was going to go into the property changed, and 20 it's a real minor change, doesn't affect anything within the 21 subdivision other than the access point, yet under our 22 current fee schedule, he has to pay the final plat fees again 23 and O.S.S.F. fees again. I just think that -- it's not just 24 for him, but for anyone; I think it's unnecessary. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 1-28-08 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that we should -- 2 you know, need to use a little bit of discretion as to how we 3 look at these. If there's -- I think we did one where we 4 changed roads from public to private. Again, that had 5 nothing to do with any lot. That individual, I think, paid 6 their -- because it's fairly large, paid $250 plus all the 7 other fees to get that done, and I just think that we need to 8 come up with a policy as to how to handle that. We can do it 9 either on a case-by-case, Court can waive it, or I can come 10 up with a fee schedule after visiting with Road and Bridge as 11 to how we should handle that, and put it on the next agenda. 12 I just didn't know what the Court thought about it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I really prefer to see some sort of 14 guidelines, myself, rather than handling it as a variance 15 item each time we consider a plat. That would be my 16 preference. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would, too. I think we 18 could devise something that basically will fit most of these 19 situations. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so we'd only be dealing 22 with the exception, not the rule. Sometime, perhaps, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Should be fairly simple to 24 state, because if it doesn't change the overall complexion of 25 what the -- what subdivision was approved -- 1-28-08 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- on final plat, it 3 shouldn't -- you know, if you don't change any of the lot 4 sizes or anything like that, all you're doing is changing 5 minor access points or things like that, there shouldn't be 6 any fee for that, I wouldn't think. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And you possibly could put in kind 8 of a catch-all clause that other circumstances that don't 9 specifically fit, that we have the authority to grant a 10 variance, and no fee or reduced fee. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of a catch-all. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think some of the filing 14 fees, anything that we really can be out dollars, I think 15 that's appropriate for us to have to collect, but other -- 16 just some of the fees that are intended to absorb the cost of 17 the County to handle the plat, I think we can waive. I'll 18 come up with a policy, and if I can ask the County 19 Attorney -- I saw Ray leave, unfortunately, but I know the 20 Environmental Health Department has said that there is -- 21 that they are required by law to look at all plats, and 22 there's -- we charge a fee for that. Can you check and see 23 if that covers, like, a revision, or a minor change? I mean, 24 clearly -- and there's a reason for them to look at a new 25 plat, but if they're just changing a lot, something similar, 1-28-08 45 1 if that has to go through Environmental Health or not. I 2 think it's easier for some of the those if they don't. 3 Currently, though, we are sending all of those through 4 Environmental Health, and there's fees associated with that. 5 I'll come back with a policy at the next court. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move to Item 10, if we 8 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 9 revise Infamous 1169. That's a plat as set forth in Volume 10 8, Page 10, Plat Records, release letter of credit, and set 11 public hearing if needed. That particular project is located 12 in Precinct 4? 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The plat of Infamous 1169 14 Ranch was completed in April of 2007. Subdivision has access 15 off a private road easement. Developer was instructed by the 16 Court that the easement road had to be upgraded outside of 17 the subdivision. When he started working on the road, the 18 owner asked him to move the road to the fence line. To 19 accommodate the landowner, he did so. By moving the access 20 road outside the platted subdivision, it changed the point of 21 entry into the subdivision, and the developer was told that 22 he needed to do a revision of plat. Mr. Letz had brought 23 part of this part up, and my question is following. All the 24 lots in the subdivision have been sold. We ask you to 25 consider the following: Will this revision require a public 1-28-08 46 1 hearing if all owners are signing the plat? If so, the first 2 available date is March 20th, 2008, 10 a.m. Second, since 3 all fees were paid during the original process, can the fees 4 be waived on the revision? And three, the easement road and 5 the roads within the subdivision are completed. At this 6 time, the developer asks that you release the letter of 7 credit that is enclosed in your backup. And I believe Don 8 Voelkel was supposed to be here to answer any questions, but 9 I have not seen him. I don't know if he's here or not. So, 10 basically, I would like -- will this revision require a 11 public hearing if all the property owners sign it -- this 12 revision? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I hope not. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Who would be available to complain? 15 MR. ODOM: I don't see anybody. If all the 16 property owners have it, they've all signed off on this 17 proper revision. It's unfortunate, part of this road came 18 across. They did move it over, which was a good thing, but 19 if you change this outside that easement, which this road 20 easement was at the point of entry, it needs to be a revision 21 as far as the metes and bounds are concerned. So, I don't 22 see why we would need a public hearing for March the 10th, 23 but I don't -- I need your direction. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem is state law. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 1-28-08 47 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a problem. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Picky, picky, picky. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, really. Can't imagine 4 it landing there. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After the application is filed 6 with the Commissioners Court, the Court shall publish notice. 7 You know, I just -- I think it's a bit ridiculous, and I 8 would be ecstatic if the County Attorney would say there's 9 some exemption there, but I don't see it. And there's no 10 provision that I'm aware of that if everyone signs off on 11 it -- I mean, it's ridiculous, and it's a waste of tax 12 dollars, in my opinion, just in -- 13 MR. ODOM: Y'all's time, and Road and Bridge, and 14 the developer's time. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 16 MR. ODOM: I don't know who's going to object if 17 all four of them sign it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see we have the 19 latitude but to follow the state law. I mean -- 20 MR. ODOM: That's -- I said I would ask. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Unfortunately. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, unfortunately. And that 23 may be something we can try to get changed. 24 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a -- it would be 1-28-08 48 1 useful to add another subsection in here, but that's the way 2 it is. I would be in favor, and I make a motion to waive 3 O.S.S.F. -- all O.S.S.F. fees, and all except the recording 4 fee -- or all the fees that come out of the Road and Bridge 5 Department for the review, and the person just be required to 6 pay the recording fees to the clerk's office. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I second that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 9 indicated with respect to the fees. Question or discussion 10 on that motion? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Does the motion include to 12 have a public hearing for March 10th, 2008, at 10 a.m.? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, it does? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it does. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. It wasn't in the one I 17 heard. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You didn't hear me say that? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't hear it either. 20 That's okay. 21 MS. HARDIN: Did you add that release the letter of 22 credit? 23 MR. ODOM: Oh, yes. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll do that in a second 25 motion. 1-28-08 49 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do these a piece at a time 2 now. 3 MS. HARDIN: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 5 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The letter of credit, Leonard, 12 can you go over that? 13 MR. ODOM: Sir? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The letter of credit. 15 MR. ODOM: Yes. The easement road and the roads 16 within the subdivision are completed. At this time, the 17 developer asks that you release the letter of credit. I have 18 no problems. The roads are complete. They're putting the 19 signs up. And it is a private road, so therefore, there's 20 not a maintenance bond involved in the thing. 21 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 22 MR. ODOM: I don't have a problem. The question 23 would be, do I wait until March the 10th? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we release 25 the letter of credit effective immediately. 1-28-08 50 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated to release the letter of credit immediately. 4 Question or discussion? Does the letter of credit cover the 5 access road also? 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's outside the subdivision? 8 MR. ODOM: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That road is complete, to your 10 satisfaction? 11 MR. ODOM: To my satisfaction. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Further question or 13 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. At this 19 time, I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I 20 will convene and open a public hearing for the revision of 21 plat for Lots 5A and 5B of Grotto Springs Ranches Number I, 22 set forth in Volume 7, Page 287, Plat Records, and located in 23 Precinct 3. 24 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 25 court, as follows:) 1-28-08 51 1 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 3 that wishes to be heard concerning the revision of plat for 4 Lots 5A and 5B of Grotto Springs Ranches I? 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward to be 7 heard on that issue, I will close the public hearing 8 concerning the revision of plat for Lots 5A and 5B of Grotto 9 Springs Ranches Number I. 10 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:01 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 11 reopened.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 14 Commissioners Court meeting and go to Item 11; consider, 15 discuss, and take appropriate action for the concept of 16 Jack Hall Lot 44-C-1, which is unrecorded, and located in 17 Precinct 3. 18 MR. ODOM: Precinct 1. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Precinct 1. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me. Where'd I come up with 21 that? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State law. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Should have known. 25 (Laughter.) 1-28-08 52 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a Broom or McBroom? 2 MR. McBROOM: McBroom. 3 MR. ODOM: McBroom. 4 MR. McBROOM: That's fine. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You must be McBroom. 6 MR. McBROOM: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See how good I am at this 8 stuff? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Experience. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Leonard, I got a 11 question here that I just want to make clear. 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In your notes here, you say 14 the lot only has 238 feet. 15 MR. ODOM: Of frontage. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of frontage. And the rules 17 say 150 feet of frontage. 18 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, per lot. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what we're saying is 20 there's two lots there, and the rules require 150 each, which 21 would be 300. 22 MR. ODOM: That's right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we only have 238, so -- 24 MR. ODOM: 238. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, in order to get past 1-28-08 53 1 this whole thing, we're talking about a variance from that 2 rule? 3 MR. ODOM: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you recommend with 5 that? 6 MR. ODOM: Well, personally, I think you should 7 stay with the rules. But -- I mean, he's going to have -- if 8 this is divided up into 5.01, acres, these are 10-, 14-acre 9 lots. This one particularly is 14. Normally those are 10 10 out there. The rules say 150. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would we be seeking a 12 variance for one or for both lots? 13 MR. ODOM: You would seek the variance for one. 14 What I saw was a variance for one, and what you would end up 15 with is a flag lot. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm seeing. 17 MR. ODOM: And so I don't -- I don't like the idea 18 of flag lots, particularly since we give a variance of 19 whatever that distance may be. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What the -- each -- it says on 21 what I'm looking at, not less than 5 acres, and then not less 22 than 5 acres, and then not more than 3 acres. What are the 23 sizes of those? 24 MR. ODOM: Mr. McBroom may be able to -- 25 MR. McBROOM: Good morning, I'm Walter McBroom. 1-28-08 54 1 I'm looking to purchase this property. What sheet do you 2 have that you're looking at a copy of? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That one. Just the -- the 4 three lot sizes. 5 MR. McBROOM: Okay. The one up to the three 6 lots -- actually to the -- there is a 14-acre tract that's 7 located to the east property line. It's owned by -- I'm not 8 sure who the owner is. They are looking to purchase the 9 bottom down there and incorporate it into that 14 acres. The 10 reason being is, the roads that they have put in, the 11 easements have encroached upon -- upon this property across 12 the back, for the 3 acres. That would leave me two tracts to 13 split up and divide. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that little tract is going 15 into a bigger lot? 16 MR. McBROOM: Yes, it would be replatted into one 17 of the neighboring lots. They own a 31-acre tract directly 18 to the north and 14 acres to the east. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- the two -- the flag 20 lot and the other one, then, to the, I guess, south, what's 21 the size of -- these are, like, 5 acres each? 22 MR. McBROOM: Five plus. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, if my memory's 24 correct, if they're over 10 acres, they can do a flag lot, 25 but if they're -- 1-28-08 55 1 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- less than 10, they can't? 3 MR. ODOM: They can't. It's 150 feet. If there 4 was -- this would be the exception, 1.03.C, and so this 5 doesn't apply here. If he had had 30 acres or something, 6 that might be a difference in there. But right now, it's 13 7 acres, and what he's talking about is actually around 10 or 8 11 acres. 9 MR. McBROOM: This is 13.89. 10 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 11 MR. McBROOM: It's up to 3 acres, which would leave 12 me 11.89 to split in two. 13 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 14 MR. McBROOM: There's one over on Drummond Drive 15 that's actually a flag lot itself as well. It just has no 16 neighbors to it. 17 MR. ODOM: Well, that may be, but it's nothing 18 that's been subdivided. That's something that Jack T. Hall 19 did -- my goodness, back in the '70's, I guess. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with taking 21 that piece and putting it in the bigger lot. That -- you 22 know, but I do have a problem with flag lots. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The problem is state law. 24 (Laughter.) Is that the call of the day? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it. 1-28-08 56 1 MR. ODOM: And I believe that the rule says that -- 2 basically, that the State doesn't want these flag lots 3 either. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 5 MR. ODOM: The question is just the frontage. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: State law. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State law. The smaller lot 8 is going to be put in with one of the larger lots. Which 9 larger lot? I see it connected to two here. Which -- which 10 one is it going in? The one with the 13.89 written on it? 11 Or -- 12 MR. McBROOM: The one with the 14 acres, is what he 13 was telling me. It's directly to the east side of it. They 14 own that one, and they also own 31.5 acres on the north. 15 MR. ODOM: Mr. Abernathy owned all this at one 16 time, and apparently, they got in here, put their road and 17 put a tank in there. I haven't been back there to see it, 18 but -- 19 MR. McBROOM: It's a wet weather, and it's not -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a gravel road 21 identified at the top of this smaller lot that says not more 22 than 3 acres. Where does that gravel road go, and where's it 23 connect? 24 MR. McBROOM: It runs down the middle of that 25 valley. It is -- it's not really much of a road. It's just 1-28-08 57 1 an access in and out of the valley where they get down to 2 their feeders and deer blinds. The reason that I did the 3 flag lot like this was so that it would not leave me a 4 landlocked piece of property, even if I did a road easement 5 across the frontage. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand the reason. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which one is Lot 44? I 8 can't find that anywhere. 9 MR. McBROOM: It's not really shown anywhere. The 10 best we can come up with is this one. (Indicating.) 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This whole thing here? 12 MR. McBROOM: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. McBROOM: You can see it here. See, it was 15 never designated. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm, this right here. 17 Okay, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you own the 40 acres 19 adjacent? 40-acre lot adjacent? 20 MR. McBROOM: No, sir, that's currently on the 21 market. And at some point, they're going to be seeking to 22 split it into 10-acre tracts, the way he's got it listed. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. Opportunity to 24 straighten the thing out at that point. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like I say, I have no problem 1-28-08 58 1 with doing a revision to get that little piece into one of 2 those other lots, but that's as much as -- 3 MR. ODOM: The back part right there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, the back part. 5 MR. ODOM: That would clean it up. You'd still 6 have 10 or 11 acres left at that point. Maybe it could pick 7 up part of this over here to make that frontage work. 8 MR. McBROOM: On this lot here? 9 MR. ODOM: On that 40 -- Lot 40. 10 MR. McBROOM: Okay. I'll see whether or not he'll 11 do that, but I'm not sure that he will. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that all we have on that 13 one, Leonard? 14 MR. ODOM: That's it. 15 MR. McBROOM: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, I will 17 recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I will convene 18 and open a public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 14KR 19 and 15 in Falling Water Subdivision, as set forth in Volume 20 6, Page 300, and located in Precinct 3. 21 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:12 a.m., and a public hearing was held in 22 open court, as follows:) 23 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 25 that wishes to be heard concerning the revision of plat for 1-28-08 59 1 Lots 14KR and 15 in Falling Water, as set forth in Volume 6, 2 Page 300, Plat Records, located in Precinct 3? 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, I will 5 close the public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 6 14KR and 15 in Falling Water Subdivision, as set forth in 7 Volume 6, Page 300. 8 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:13 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 9 reopened.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 12 Commissioners Court meeting and call Item 9; consider, 13 discuss, and take appropriate action to -- for the revision 14 of plat for Lots 14KR and 15 in Falling Water, as set forth 15 in Volume 6, Page 300, located in Precinct 3. Mr. Odom? 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This revision of plat adjusts 17 a lot line between two properties. The house on Lot 14 18 crosses the county line, and the O.S.S.F. is licensed in 19 Kendall County. This was done under the alternate plat 20 process. At this time, we ask that you approve the revision 21 of plat for Lots 18RK (sic) and 15 of Falling Waters, Volume 22 6, Page 300-306, Precinct 3. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say 18RK? Or did 24 you say 14? 25 MR. ODOM: 14. 1-28-08 60 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 14, thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: KR. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a heck of a note; got 4 the county line running right through the middle of your 5 house. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I saw that. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One side's Kerr County, the 8 other side's Kendall. 9 MR. ODOM: Yeah. The gentleman knew where the line 10 was at. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Apparently. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's amazing. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 MR. ODOM: Depends which side of the bedroom he's 16 on when he votes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would the size of the lots 18 be after we're done? 3.15? 19 MR. ODOM: Sir, let me pull my notes right here. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like it would be 3.04. 21 If you move that line -- 22 MR. ODOM: I think -- well, hang on a second. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are both lots owned by the same 24 person? 25 MS. HARDIN: Both gentlemen are here. 1-28-08 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem doing it. I 2 think this cleans up a situation which is not good. 3 MR. ODOM: I may have missed that, but I believe 4 that 1.072 -- if you look at your lot 14KR as platted, you 5 have 1.072 acres, and you're showing on the revision of 6 1.185, so you've added some acreage up into that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MR. ODOM: And that should be bigger anyway. 9 That's what I looked at and saw. I didn't think about the 10 other one. But I thought maybe this angle was changed a 11 little bit, but I'm showing the same angle. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 16 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We have a 21 timed item for 10:15; it is that time now. I will move to 22 Item 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 23 request by the Kerrville V.A. Medical Center for water well 24 sanitary easement on Kerrville Juvenile Detention Facility 25 property. Is Mr. Steiner present? 1-28-08 62 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see Mr. Steiner. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Essentially, it appears that 3 this water well is located some 55 feet over onto the V.A. 4 property, which would make the radius onto our property of 5 approximately 95 feet. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Their well? Their well? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Their well is on their property, but 8 the sanitary easement of 150-foot radius would -- would 9 encroach on an arc of 95 feet over onto our property. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know what falls within that 12 in the way of improvements. I think when we made request of 13 the individual at the V.A., I specifically had that inquiry. 14 I asked Ms. Grinstead to pass that along. What we got back 15 was the first plat that you see there that shows the circle 16 with a 150-foot radius on it. I would note that the 17 requested easement allows the construction of improvements, 18 buildings, so forth, so long as it does not carry with it the 19 items as specified under Item 2 -- particularly Item 2. The 20 other two items deal with 50-foot radius, which, of course, 21 does not fall over onto our property. So, Rex, do you have 22 any input on this? 23 MR. EMERSON: Just -- well, I haven't seen the 24 document that has the specifics of the easement that you're 25 talking about, but I talked to Mr. Domingues for a little 1-28-08 63 1 bit, and it has been quite some time since he's actually 2 surveyed this. And he didn't think we had any improvements 3 back there, but he didn't know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's Mr. Steiner. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Steiner? 6 MR. STEINER: Yes, sir? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We are underway considering the 8 sanitary easement that you have requested. I think the -- 9 the principal issue was whether or not there are any 10 improvements of any kind that Kerr County has on their 11 detention facility property that would fall within the arc of 12 this sanitary easement. Ms. Grinstead, I'm sure, asked you 13 to -- that was the information I was interested in, and when 14 she contacted you after it was before the Court the last 15 time, I had her make that inquiry. I don't see it on any of 16 the engineering data that you furnished to us, but what can 17 you tell us? 18 MR. STEINER: Well, what happened back in 1999, we 19 had a -- T.E.C.Q. came in and -- T.E.C.Q. came in and did a 20 survey of our property. And the issue is that we cannot have 21 any type of sewer or that type wastewater within a 150-foot 22 radius of the well. Well, of course, we were unaware of that 23 at that time, but there is a sewer line, a waste line that 24 comes within that. I think it's 44 -- what was it? 84 feet, 25 something like that. About 84 feet from our well. So, that 1-28-08 64 1 falls within that 150-foot radius. There's been -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Excuse me for 3 interrupting. 4 MR. STEINER: Sure. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Does this sewer line fall on your 6 property or on our property? 7 MR. STEINER: On your property. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: On ours? 9 MR. STEINER: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that answers the question. 11 We're not -- certainly, I don't -- I don't think we're 12 inclined to relocate our sewer line. 13 MR. STEINER: Oh, no. What we need is just the 14 easement say -- you know, stating that we're not going to 15 build over that, or any problems of that type issue through 16 T.E.C.Q., and I have several documents going back if you'd 17 like to review these. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I know this issue goes back 19 for a number of years. I think -- I think the thing that 20 probably comes like a bolt out of the blue today is the fact 21 that we have our own sewer line within that -- within that 22 radius. And I -- I'm reading Item 3, which prohibits the 23 construction of tile sanitary sewers, sewer appurtenances, 24 septic tanks, storm stewers, and cemeteries within a 50-foot 25 radius. What I'm concerned about is under Item 2, all other 1-28-08 65 1 construction or operation that could create any sanitary 2 condition within, upon, or across the property subject to the 3 easement. And if we've got a sewer line there, I'd say we 4 got a problem. 5 MR. STEINER: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Or, correction, we don't have a 7 problem. That's our sewer line; seems to be serving us well. 8 I think you've got a problem with respect to your well which 9 is presently in place, and with our sewer line falling within 10 that 150 foot. 11 MR. STEINER: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause it would have to be outside 13 the 50 foot in order to be on our property. 14 MR. STEINER: That's correct, yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: This is something else I'm going to 16 -- I'd refer to the County Attorney for further study, having 17 the benefit of this information that you just gave to us. 18 MR. STEINER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I have no 20 problem with the easement, but it's subject to the sewer line 21 being there. It's not -- you know, I don't know how -- if 22 you can do something like that. But I agree with the Judge; 23 we can't -- we're not moving the sewer line. 24 MR. STEINER: Well, yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we could move the 1-28-08 66 1 sewer line. 2 MR. STEINER: I don't think -- we're not asking to 3 move the sewer line. That's not -- that's not the issue. We 4 just need an easement to satisfy the State of Texas, because 5 of the location of it. You know, that well has been there 6 since -- I think in the early '70's is when we went in and 7 reworked the well. So, the well's been there for quite some 8 time. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if we gave you an 10 easement, and there's a sewer line there, is the State going 11 to accept that? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or -- yeah, or subsequently 13 require us to move it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because of the easement. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's something that I -- I think, 17 with the knowledge that we've got of the sewer line on our 18 property, as presently in place within that -- within that 19 radius, before I'd really be in favor of moving forward on 20 this thing, I'd want him to -- to take a much, much, much 21 closer look at this to -- 22 MR. STEINER: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- see what the ramifications of 24 that are. 25 MR. STEINER: Okay. Now, I was under the 1-28-08 67 1 understanding that we may have -- back in 1999, it was 2 discussed, and they had -- it was brought up prior to my 3 time, but I understand that it was brought up, and that there 4 was possibly one granted, but no action was taken. It never 5 got registered or any of that. I don't know. But that's 6 just what my understanding was, a possible easement was 7 granted. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Brought up by the V.A. to 9 the Commissioners Court at the time of construction out 10 there, or when? 11 MR. STEINER: No, there was just -- once we got the 12 deficiency back in 1999 from T.E.C.Q., we went in and 13 requested an easement to be for that section of the property 14 where the sewer line is in place now. But I don't -- again, 15 this was hearsay, so I really can't tell you for sure. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's obvious you didn't get 17 it then, either. 18 MR. STEINER: No, I know we didn't get it then. I 19 don't know -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or he wouldn't be here 21 today. 22 MR. STEINER: You're right. 23 MR. EMERSON: I'd be happy to research it. I think 24 the problem, as the Judge has indicated, is we can't grant an 25 easement that we're automatically in default of. You know, 1-28-08 68 1 it places the County subject to liability. 2 MR. STEINER: Well, that's why I'm here. I just 3 need to know, because they're wanting to fine us. So, after 4 this period of time, we've left it up to our lawyers, and 5 somewhere down the line it got dropped, and now it's fallen 6 back on me to see what we can do to get it straightened out. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, maybe a -- some kind of 9 a solution would be to find out where that sewer line is 10 exactly, and go 5 feet from it and -- and don't have a round 11 sanitary easement; carve out the sewer line. 12 MR. STEINER: I'd be more than happy to provide 13 this -- this is a copy of all the action -- excuse me -- that 14 has been taken, and I'd be more than happy to let you have 15 it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it might be helpful for 17 Mr. Emerson to have that as he -- as he reviews this 18 matter, -- 19 MR. STEINER: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Mr. Steiner. Anybody else on the 21 Court have anything to offer -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on this matter? Okay. Thank 24 you, sir. 25 MR. STEINER: Thank you. 1-28-08 69 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here. Let's 2 go to Item 12, if we might. Consider, discuss, take 3 appropriate action considering Road and Bridge vehicle 4 policy. 5 MR. ODOM: I apologize, I had it marked off. I 6 thought I was -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thought you'd already dealt 8 with it? 9 MR. ODOM: Already dealt with it. Okay. This is 10 after our discussion last time about the people to -- for 11 emergency, I showed the five areas instead of the four, and 12 then the swing crews, and that would be a question whether 13 you want the swing crews to be involved in this. But I think 14 that that is appropriate with Deter and Biermann being on the 15 swing crew. And if you -- attached -- we have the policy, 16 which is very similar, except some wording in one has 17 changed. So, if you approve this policy in the backup, 18 we'll -- we'll enforce this with our bunch. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, is -- what is a 20 swing crew? 21 MR. ODOM: Swing crew is going to be like we had 22 before, Buster. We had four -- I had four areas, and I had 23 enough people to man it to go do brush and -- and complaints 24 generally to allow the crews to work. And, you know, we went 25 to that five areas, and I took -- it took the people out of 1-28-08 70 1 it. In other words, I lost three that went back up there, 2 and we were minimal to be able to have enough enforcement and 3 supervision as far as making decisions. So, what I wish to 4 do is to have Joe Biermann out there, be able to take about 5 three extra people, maybe four, one out of the shop maybe, 6 and be able to go out and do brush cutting, patching, looking 7 at complaints, being able to take the Gradall. And I've got 8 a Gradall -- one of the persons that operates the Gradall be 9 able to take a lot of this, and to do it themselves, to allow 10 the crews to stay on their sealcoat programs. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What would be the function of these 12 swing crews in the event of heavy rains, possible flooding or 13 high winds, -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ice. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- limbs blowing down, icy, 16 emergency-type -- 17 MR. ODOM: Emergency-type deal, I'll -- take Deter 18 this last week, gets a call at 2 o'clock in the morning about 19 a stop sign down. The Sheriff's Department's been going out, 20 been real active on the roads. This was a complaint, so he 21 asked where it was at. They said, "It's Upper Turtle Creek 22 and Camino Real." He said, "What?" They said, "Camino Real 23 and Upper Turtle Creek." He said, "No, that's Highway 16." 24 So, they were wrong. But it woke him up at 2:00. He is the 25 one that's central that -- between Tommy and Deter, the more 1-28-08 71 1 centrally located, which is Upper Turtle Creek, in that area. 2 It depends how bad an emergency it is. Biermann is 3 sometimes, not that often, but will -- if Doug and them have 4 floods up there, they'll split up. Tommy will look at 5 something that's -- Tommy was called out last night, I think, 6 or the other night. So, we get these calls, and it's just 7 one of these reaction things that we can cover it. Other 8 than to have somebody like Doug come from Comfort or Joe 9 Biermann. It's closer to have a response from someone that's 10 more centrally located. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Would these -- would these swing 12 crew leaders, would they be, like, your -- like, your crew 13 supervisor, would they be required to respond to emergency 14 situations? 15 MR. ODOM: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Go out and monitor the roadways, 17 check on the conditions, put up barricades, -- 18 MR. ODOM: Absolutely. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- things of that nature? 20 MR. ODOM: Absolutely. And even call more people 21 in if they had to. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, is this a new 24 policy that's been drafted, or is this a pick-up that you've 25 been -- that's on file and you're kind of reworking a little 1-28-08 72 1 bit? The one I'm reading. 2 MR. ODOM: You're talking about the backup? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Road and Bridge Vehicle 4 Policy document. 5 MR. ODOM: Right. It is really a continuation of 6 what we had in '02. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I'd like to suggest 8 that we maybe add one thing to it. Item Number 2 is titled 9 "Commuting in County Vehicles." Okay? That's what it's 10 titled. 11 MR. ODOM: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But nowhere in that section 13 does it talk specifically about prohibiting commuting to and 14 from work unless assigned a vehicle, and I'd like to see you 15 add a third bullet point that says, "Commuting to/from work 16 unless assigned use of a county vehicle." That then 17 specifically prohibits commuting under any circumstances 18 unless he's an assigned, authorized individual with a 19 vehicle. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You lost me. 21 MR. ODOM: Yeah, I -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A third bullet under the 23 two that are there that says, "Commuting to and from work 24 unless assigned use of a county vehicle." Now you have 25 expressly prohibited what you said you're going to do in the 1-28-08 73 1 title of that section anyhow. I'd be happy to supply you 2 with the language. 3 MR. ODOM: I would appreciate that. I would like 4 the minutes there; I'm a little bit confused with -- I 5 thought we said that, but if we didn't, we'll -- I have no 6 problems. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Comments? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- my question is -- 10 really, is -- I think it's kind of two things. One, I mean, 11 we pretty much -- it's been foremen were the ones that kind 12 of keep people out when they need to be out during weather 13 primarily, or accidents. Where -- what area of the county -- 14 I don't need the street address -- can you identify with all 15 these people live? I think it's more -- I'm concerned that 16 we have a good geographical distribution as much as anything. 17 I mean, it needs to be -- I think I have no problem with any 18 of the people. I just want to make sure that we're covered 19 county-wide, because the purpose for this is to have them 20 near where problems are. Does that make sense? 21 MR. ODOM: Well, that's pretty tough when you have 22 supervisors that are -- live in Comfort area. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 24 MR. ODOM: I mean, you know -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it looks to me like 1-28-08 74 1 about three of them live in Comfort. 2 MR. ODOM: Very close to Comfort, yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, would it not make 4 more sense to try to get a -- how many of them -- well, three 5 live in -- I mean, which is Douglas, Gail, and Joe, right? 6 MR. ODOM: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where's Aaron live? 8 MR. ODOM: Aaron lives out in that area. He's more 9 back toward Simms, back over in that area, back behind. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We basically have all of them 11 pushed up in one end of the county. 12 MR. ODOM: Well, normally -- but you don't have a 13 problem with Aaron and them, because they monitor -- 14 normally, Aaron monitors that radio. And if there's 15 anything, Aaron's there out all the time. Simms is where 16 Biermann was, is essentially -- I've got coverage with 17 central. That's the reason I wanted Deter left in there. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. ODOM: I've got Tommy that doesn't have a 20 vehicle that takes small things. We're talking about a -- 21 you know, the possibility these supervisors -- I mean, if you 22 want Tommy Bridges to make decisions, that would be a little 23 bit difficult for me. But -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, which of these 25 individuals -- any of them live in west Kerr County? I'm 1-28-08 75 1 glad to have a lot of them in my area, but I think -- I'm 2 just concerned that -- you know. 3 MR. ODOM: Well, Donne -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm glad for your concern. 5 MR. ODOM: -- Donne can cover the Town Creek going 6 out to the west area. I don't -- I don't have a supervisor, 7 per se, that lives out there in Ingram. We used to have Ray 8 Lynch, and responded at that point. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But, in fact, two of those areas are 10 west Kerr. 11 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And you've got individuals assigned 13 to -- 14 MR. ODOM: To those areas -- supervisors for those 15 areas. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They just don't live close 17 by. 18 MR. ODOM: They just don't live close by. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But they still take care of 20 the business at hand. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 MR. ODOM: That's right. And then you have the 23 gentlemen that are normally more centrally located, if it's 24 not a major deal. If it's a major deal, we already know 25 about it, and the people are starting to respond or stay. A 1-28-08 76 1 lot of times Aaron will just spend the night over -- that's 2 the reason we have that -- I wanted that other mobile home 3 out there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Out there in Ingram. 5 MR. ODOM: Yeah. And a lot of times, they stayed 6 with Ray Lynch and spent the night. So, that -- a lot of 7 people just take it in and take care of it. Doug's real 8 close to his. Deter takes care of that. Tommy will go 9 out -- will go if they call him out; he'll get a vehicle, go 10 check it out. Smaller things are handled internally; Donne 11 can do that, and if we need him, we'll send him out. He'll 12 take a look at it and see what the problem is. A lot of 13 times it's isolated. What may be flooding in one place is 14 not flooding in another. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are any of those employees 17 exempt employees? 18 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Over on your -- your policy, 20 under personal use, you've pretty much described everything. 21 Does that include, like, doctor's appointments, eye doctors, 22 et cetera? 23 MR. ODOM: Not necessarily. Sometimes. Depends -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Either it does or it 25 doesn't. 1-28-08 77 1 MR. ODOM: Well, I -- I don't have it in here, 2 so -- if they have a scheduled -- normally, they try to get 3 it and -- and make it in the afternoon; they'll take off. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't think a doctor's 5 appointment is a personal issue? 6 MR. ODOM: Well, it depends -- are they going to be 7 there for 30 minutes or an hour? I don't know. You know, if 8 it's all day or several hours or something, that's a 9 different thing. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I disagree. I think if it's 11 two days, it's still personal. Number 5, "Use of County 12 Vehicles for Official Travel." I think I know where you are 13 there as well. I think -- but I think I would use -- what we 14 do is, we consider that out-of-county travel. Not in-county, 15 but out-of-county. So, if you were going to a meeting 16 somewhere where the County picks up mileage and those kinds 17 of things, food and dining and lodging and -- the words 18 "out-of-county" I think is consistent language with other 19 things that we do. 20 MR. ODOM: And what -- on the last page there? Is 21 that sufficient there? Selection of food or dining 22 establishments be made with discretion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I like that language 24 myself. It's a good job. Well, I don't understand why 25 you have to have -- at one time, we had four -- well, five 1-28-08 78 1 counting you, and now we're up to eight, counting you. A 2 flood's a flood. The county hasn't grown any. But I'm not 3 going to argue with you at this point. I may a little later 4 on today. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me -- let me 6 interject one thing on the medical appointments. I -- I can 7 see if it's something that's discretionary, such as going to 8 the grocery store, things like that, something that you can 9 do or not do on your own time and have control over when it's 10 done, that may be one thing. But if you have a doctor's 11 appointment at 2:30 in the afternoon, I think it's -- from 12 the county standpoint, it's more beneficial if the individual 13 can go straight to the doctor from work, to his doctor's 14 appointment, and then return to work, rather than take his 15 vehicle back to maybe near Comfort where he lives, get in his 16 personal car in time to go see the doctor, and then return 17 back home, pick up his vehicle. Seems like that's -- just an 18 observation. See where I'm coming from? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see clearly where 20 you're coming from. Typical lawyer. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But the appointment is not something 22 that the employee necessarily has control over, as he would 23 if he goes to the -- he's going to the grocery store or 24 picking up something on the way home or something. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a real problem 1-28-08 79 1 with the policy. I just -- you know, it makes -- 2 MR. ODOM: Do you wish to reduce the area? The 3 number of personnel? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that the -- I 5 mean, the ones you have listed are the -- you know, the ones 6 that need to be going out and making decisions and doing 7 things in emergency situations, so I don't have a problem 8 with them. It would be nice if it was a little bit smaller 9 list, but I don't have a real problem with that. The way you 10 have things divided up, I think it works out all right. And 11 I'll make a motion to approve the policy, with the addition 12 that Commissioner Williams made. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 15 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor of 16 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And any change in policy has to 22 come back to the Court. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 24 MR. ODOM: Well, I hadn't changed it except now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's do our 10:30 timed item before 1-28-08 80 1 we take our recess. Consider, discuss, take appropriate 2 action on request from Kerr County Y.M.C.A. to utilize the 3 Union Church building at a reduced rate. Ms. Chapman? 4 MS. CHAPMAN: Good morning. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: How are you this morning? 6 MS. CHAPMAN: Doing great, thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What do we got? 8 MS. CHAPMAN: Well, we just -- Kerr County Y.M.C.A. 9 used the Union Church building last year for a -- a dinner 10 that we had for some of our volunteers, and we'd just like to 11 have that opportunity to use the facility at the nonprofit 12 rate, and be approved to use that facility again this year at 13 the nonprofit rate for board meetings and some of our little 14 fundraising dinners. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- a volunteer 16 dinner? Is that what you said? 17 MS. CHAPMAN: Yes, it was a volunteer -- it was a 18 volunteer dinner that we had, volunteer appreciation, little 19 dinner that we had. And a meeting that we had, a board 20 meeting that we had there last year. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: These are Y.M.C.A. activities -- 22 MS. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- exclusively? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Y.M.C.A. activities, I 25 don't have a problem with that, but all we're waiving is the 1-28-08 81 1 $25 fee. Any other fees are applicable. 2 MS. CHAPMAN: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right? 4 MS. GRINSTEAD: Well, with the Union Church, you 5 have it as a four-hour minimum of $100, $25 an hour, so -- we 6 don't really have any kind of nonprofit. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We reduce it to $25 that way. 8 MS. GRINSTEAD: Is that what you're doing? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be -- well -- 10 MS. CHAPMAN: $50. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Nonprofit rate. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The nonprofit waives that 13 entire amount? Or does it -- 14 MS. GRINSTEAD: We didn't really address nonprofit 15 with Union Church. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to charge 17 something, 'cause it costs the County, and they don't have 18 any other setup-type charges there. I think a 50 percent 19 reduction. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if we have a $100 21 minimum, four hours, then half would be $50, right? Not $25. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd go for that. That's 25 consistent with everything else we're trying to establish. 1-28-08 82 1 As opposed to down to $25. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's always cleaning stuff 3 to be done. There's -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the nonprofit rates we're 6 suggesting on the Union Church, there's a 50 percent 7 reduction, correct? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's what I 9 understood Commissioner Letz to say at the beginning. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I just want to make sure we 11 all understand the same thing. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it also understood, in 13 cases of Union Church, unlike the Ag Barn, that the setup and 14 clean-up is the responsibility of the renter? Is that 15 understood? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, setup and clean-up at the 17 Ag Barn is the responsibility of the County. That's why we 18 charge for it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason I'm 20 asking the question. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that if 23 there's -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can waive it if they 25 decide to do their own setup and clean-up. 1-28-08 83 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's really not that much 2 setup, generally, that the County would be doing at Union 3 Church. Most of them are just meetings that are held there. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then again, there are 5 some things like that -- 6 MS. CHAPMAN: We just set up -- last time, we just 7 set up; we went, set up the tables, and then we cleaned it up 8 afterwards. And I'm not sure -- when the other lady was in 9 charge of it, I think she came in afterwards and just made 10 sure we took the trash out and everything. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cleaning up the kitchen, 12 restrooms, getting rid of trash, a lot of things that take 13 place after a dinner. Bringing the tables back and chairs 14 back. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We need a motion on 16 that? Has anyone made a motion? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought you made one. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I made one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I have a second? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 50 percent? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's what he said. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 24 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 25 by raising your right hand. 1-28-08 84 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 5 ma'am. 6 MS. CHAPMAN: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We will be in recess until 8 11 o'clock. 9 (Recess taken from 10:46 a.m. to 11:05 a.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 12 we might. We were in recess for about 15 minutes. We'll 13 resume with Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 14 action to appoint Bud Fawcett as a new member to Emergency 15 Service District Number 1, and reappoint Johnnie Hawkins, 16 both for two-year terms. Commissioner Oehler? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Both for two-year terms. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I thought you said 20 three. So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-28-08 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 17; 4 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding annual 5 maintenance agreement with the ABA Moriah Corporation for the 6 Printonix P5209 printer located in the Tax Office. I put 7 this on because apparently the maintenance fee has been paid, 8 but we never approved the contract, and it's one of those 9 kind of clean up after fact deals. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, all we're doing is 11 approving the contract? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 17 raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 18; 22 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to accept the 23 annual racial profiling report for fiscal year 2007. 24 Commissioner Baldwin? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The problem is, the state 1-28-08 86 1 law requires this. And, of course, Precinct 1 constable is 2 on the ball. And I'm assuming y'all got copies of it? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to make that 5 comment, so I move that we accept the annual racial profiling 6 report. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval. Question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like for you guys to 11 look at it and see who they really pick on. It's those white 12 men. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Constable, Precinct 4, 14 does his annual report on that too, but I'm not sure he 15 brings it to court. I know it gets filed with the clerk. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So's mine. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And mine. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comes late. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mine's usually on time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 22 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Skipped 13. Did you do that on 25 purpose? 1-28-08 87 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll take up 4 Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate action for 5 right-of-way on Wilson Creek Road and how it relates to Kerr 6 County Subdivision platting requirements. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is one that Leonard 8 brought to me that I took it to Rex, and I thought we'd bring 9 it to the Court, you know, just to get an idea. It's kind of 10 an interesting situation. There are two issues, in my mind. 11 One, does dedication of an easement trigger platting? 12 Does -- is that a division of property that triggers 13 platting? That's Question A. And then Question B is, the 14 easement was done by deed restriction, and can do you a deed 15 restriction that's contrary to our subdivision rules and 16 circumvent subdivision rules? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When did the deed 18 restriction go into place? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deed restriction went in place 20 at the same time, basically, the platting was going on. 21 Within the same, you know, period. You know, whether it be 22 weeks, days, I'm not sure, but it was all happening basically 23 at the same time. And the easement that -- on this 24 particular one, the easement in question was, I think, 25 intended to widen -- Wilson Creek has a 40-foot right-of-way, 1-28-08 88 1 deeded right-of-way that we own. This right-of-way is along 2 Wilson Creek, where he sold -- the individual sold some 3 20-acre tracts. He did the right-of-way and kept it for 4 himself. So, the County doesn't -- it's coming to us now 5 because the phone company wants to put a fiberoptic down the 6 road, and they want to know, well, do we put it next to the 7 40-foot right-of-way or do we put it next to the 60-foot 8 right-of-way? And we don't own -- I mean, our right-of-way 9 only goes to 40 foot. So, anyway, it triggered all those 10 questions at the same time, and I'll see what Rex may have to 11 say. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hello, Rex. 13 MR. EMERSON: My initial review would indicate that 14 it's a -- what's a nice way to put this? Basically, it's 15 almost a subversion of the subdivision rules. The granting 16 the additional 20 foot is in direct violation of subdivision 17 rules under 1.02.C; basically states that if any part of the 18 property, including easements, is subdivided, then you fall 19 under the rules. And I'm not sure how you do an easement to 20 a deed restriction in an attempt to get around the 21 subdivision rules, which is what this person is trying to do. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, and it -- and, further, 23 it doesn't make sense to me, I mean, what the purpose of it 24 is. 'Cause what they've done, basically, is -- if the title 25 company ever looks at it, they've landlocked the piece of 1-28-08 89 1 property. They can't get to it without this guy's 2 permission. Which is -- anyway, so my view is that, you 3 know, I think it violates subdivision rules, and it triggers 4 platting on that 22-acre tract, or at least on the easement 5 part of it. If he wants to leave the piece off, he can, but 6 he has to plat the easement, if nothing else. 7 MR. ODOM: That's five different tracts. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's a tract -- he did 9 it along the whole stretch of the road. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the same gentleman 11 as the Comfort W.C. & I.D.? Same gentleman? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's a brother. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Brother, okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it's a brother, I think. 15 MR. ODOM: And the catch-22 is -- is that the 16 telephone company needs to provide that service up there, and 17 I -- we particularly do not wish to have fiberoptics buried, 18 and then turn around and have to tell them to move it again. 19 Then we, as taxpayers, got to pay for it. I don't think we 20 should. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 22 MR. ODOM: So I'm sort of in a quandary, which way 23 do they go? Do they go over the extra 20 foot over here? 24 And -- but they are in violation of 1.02.C. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who is in violation of 1-28-08 90 1 1.02.C? 2 MR. ODOM: The developer -- or the individual that 3 sold the property. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His name is Richard Bohnert. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me one more time what 6 they did? He sold the property -- 7 MR. ODOM: He sold property, 20-acre tracts; about 8 125 acres, and I think he divided it into five -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. ODOM: -- tracts. And what he did was to give 11 -- he was -- told -- he wanted to have a 60-foot easement, so 12 instead of just selling it off like he should have, for 13 whatever reason, he put another 20 foot in there, which is 14 fine, and we were told that that's what he had done. He had 15 put 20 foot. We couldn't get that from Mr. Voelkel; it was 16 only showing to 40 foot. When it all came out and we finally 17 got everything from the clerk, we found those five tracts. 18 He subdivided -- he sold it off metes and bounds, gave 19 himself this easement, and why, I don't know, when what he 20 did was landlock the property. I mean, he cut off -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, so his option, he could 22 give -- he can either plat it, which we're going to have a 23 problem with -- I'm going to have a problem with, or he can 24 deed it to the County. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He needs to deed it to the 1-28-08 91 1 County. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if he deeds an easement to 3 the County, then he doesn't have to plat it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, can he deed it to the County 5 without the joinder of the landowners that are adjacent? 6 Because it's an easement; it's merely a burden on the 7 property, and for a particular use. Title of the property -- 8 the underlying property went to the adjoining landowners that 9 he was avoiding the platting process by conveying to. 10 MR. ODOM: So, we're saying that he needs to deed 11 it to the property owners, or convey that section to the 12 property owners? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think he has to plat it. I 14 mean, the -- we need -- the County wants a 60-foot 15 right-of-way there. 16 MR. ODOM: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that there -- and, 18 you know, we need it right there. It's a very heavily 19 traveled road. I really think that probably the best way 20 is -- the way it was done is in violation of subdivision 21 rules. It needs to be platted for other remedies which you 22 can give the easement to the people, but then -- you know, I 23 think we need to talk to the landowners, and we would 24 ultimately like to get it. How we get there, I'm not sure 25 right now. 1-28-08 92 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If he plats the property, and the 2 platting process is joined in and approved by all those 3 landowners, I think that'll get us to the 60-foot. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. If he wants -- once he 5 hits the platting, then we can require him to give us the 20 6 foot. 7 MR. ODOM: So, you wish for us to contact the 8 property owners? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'd call Mr. -- the 10 developer and the property owner, and say that that division 11 of that easement, the way it was done triggered platting, and 12 all -- that whole tract needs to get platted. 13 MR. ODOM: All right. So, why don't we just -- 14 we'll call the property owner, talk to him about the 15 violation. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we need to handle all five 17 of these tracts. I don't know if he sold all of them or not. 18 MR. ODOM: I don't know, but I just know there's 19 five. That's what I heard. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did he give those individual 21 owners interest in that -- in this easement, this 20 foot 22 we're talking about? They don't have any interest in the 23 20 feet? It doesn't appear -- 24 MR. ODOM: Not to my knowledge. 25 MR. EMERSON: What it says is, Reservations from 1-28-08 93 1 Conveyance: Grantor, their heirs and assigns, reserves an 2 easement and right-of-way for the purpose of ingress and 3 egress across the property conveyed by this deed to grantee, 4 and it's being all of a certain 60-foot-wide strip -- goes on 5 to be described. So, he reserved his own ingress and egress. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He reserved himself, but he's 7 the only one that can cross it. Doesn't make sense, what he 8 did. 9 MR. EMERSON: No. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not if he sold the 11 properties. Why does he have any right to go in there? 12 MR. EMERSON: 'Cause he reserved the right. Which 13 just happens to parallel the existing road easement. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And that's why I think 15 we can trigger -- it's triggered platting, to make it be 16 fixed. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And correct it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct the whole property. 19 MR. ODOM: Correct the whole thing by platting it. 20 That would be the way to do it. Then we could authorize 21 putting in that fiberoptic. I hate to be the bad guy, but 22 it's just not right to put it there sometime in the future. 23 It's the old Roane Road, if you know what I'm talking about. 24 We changed the name. That's very narrow right there as it 25 is. 1-28-08 94 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a dangerous intersection 2 where it hits 27. Okay. Either you or Rex, someone advise 3 them that they've violated subdivision rules. 4 MR. ODOM: We can send him a letter and come in and 5 talk to us. Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex pointed if you'd send the 7 letter. 8 MR. ODOM: I figured that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it also is a -- you 10 can't -- I heard Rex say this is more of a -- you cannot 11 circumvent subdivision rules through a deed restriction. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure I can see what 13 he was planning on gaining from this at all. Unless he's 14 going to come back and gouge the County later on or something 15 like that. But isn't it amazing what precinct that stuff 16 is -- all this weird stuff is in? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Used to be in my precinct, 18 but we gave it to Commissioner Letz. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Too far downstream from the 20 Guadalupe. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The water changes out 22 there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You had things squared away when it 24 was in Precinct 2? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was okay when it was in 1-28-08 95 1 my precinct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Does that take care of Item 3 13? Okay, let's move to Item 19; consider, discuss, take 4 appropriate action on capital projects preliminary list for 5 inclusion in the capital improvement projects and loan. 6 MS. HARGIS: Did everybody have an opportunity to 7 review the list? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. I have a 9 question. 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The repairs to windows and 12 doors in the old part of the courthouse, I'm assuming that 13 we're going to have a -- you know, the Historical -- 14 MS. HARGIS: They're already involved. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Commission, or 16 "Hysterical" Commission says that we can't do this. So, we 17 need -- we're trying to set up a meeting -- are we setting up 18 a meeting with them? 19 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I would think that we 21 need some kind of resolution to do that before we -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Well, I think -- you know, you're not 23 going to build it until such time -- we need to go ahead and 24 put it in the loan and -- and hold it in escrow it until such 25 time. 1-28-08 96 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's a good liberal 2 way to do it, but I'm not sure that that's the proper way to 3 do it. 4 MS. HARGIS: Well, let me make this suggestion. We 5 talked about having a workshop on this, and I think that 6 would probably be the best thing to do. Remember, this is 7 the wish list. This is not the pared-down list. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 9 MS. HARGIS: There's two things to consider here. 10 One is that we're going to be paying off some debt, which we 11 already know. The second thing is that, due to the -- and I 12 hate to say this; that's taking advantage of the recession 13 language that's out there. But the feds have reduced the 14 interest rate very, very low, and I think that, you know, it 15 would give us that opportunity to spread the cost of these 16 items out over a period of time. It's not uncommon to, you 17 know, go out for a bond issue and hold that money in escrow. 18 Mr. Baldwin, if you decided not to do the windows, and the 19 Historical Commission did not want you to do that, then you 20 take that money and you pay off the debt. So, it's not a 21 matter of holding it to use it for something else. You pay 22 off the debt with it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do an early debt reduction. 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 1-28-08 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have is, this list, 3 are we tied exactly to this list? 4 MS. HARGIS: No. We need to either expand it, 5 reduce it, whatever y'all want to do. This is preliminary. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, say we were to approve 7 1,545,000, whatever this amount. That's what we wanted to 8 do. And then we do that, and then we decide that we wanted 9 to -- Leonard comes in and says he wants -- doesn't want a 10 brush chipper; he wants a loader. 11 MS. HARGIS: Right. We don't want to tie the exact 12 items; all we want to do is tie kind of an overall estimate 13 that we want to spend on equipment, and put it under one 14 umbrella. Because you don't want to tie it down tight, 15 because you would have a problem. So, like, we said 16 refurbish the windows. It doesn't mean -- we haven't put the 17 number of windows. We can just say Road and Bridge 18 equipment, and I'm sure that's the way that Bob Henderson 19 would have it written up in the note. Again, all of these 20 items are there, and if we decided not to do them, then -- 21 you know, and that's what Bob and I talked about as well. 22 Then you just -- you just pay the loan down, because you 23 figure that's not a good way to do it, if the windows become 24 a problem. 25 Some of these items, though, we do definitely need 1-28-08 98 1 to take care of, the -- the first list. And then, when you 2 get down to the others, the -- what I want to suggest in this 3 realm is, we don't -- we're paying off about 160,000, what I 4 would refer to as real long-term debt. That's going away 5 this year. We have some leases of equipment that are 6 Leonard's that are also going away, which gives us about 241. 7 I'm not sure which of those he's replacing with this list, 8 and which he'll need to keep. He and I have not had the 9 opportunity to visit on that. But what we need, as you can 10 see from the amortization schedule, was around -- depending 11 on how many years you wanted to go out, and I used 3.9, 12 because that's kind of what Bob used that day. It's already 13 down to about 3.5, and I may have used 3.5. The first 14 schedule, I used 3.9. But we can ladder this out so that it 15 will work to where the first two years are a little lower, 16 and then when we get to that really large dropoff, which is 17 in 2010, we drop off about a half a million, then we -- we 18 revert, pay a huge payment that year, so it will still get us 19 to five years. 20 So, you can -- you kind of make your first two 21 payments a little lower so that, you know, we could keep our 22 debt level, and then you're still keeping your debt level, 23 but you're able to pay it off within a shorter term, so you 24 can -- you can structure that to make this work. The reason 25 I'm saying that is, I think to take the opportunity of this 1-28-08 99 1 -- of the rates, and also, we don't know what the marketplace 2 is going to give. It may be very hard to get a debt in a 3 year, and -- and we may need to have these things. So, 4 it's -- you know, it's -- it behooves us, in a market like 5 this -- it's kind of like they used to say in my old 6 industry, was you take this window of opportunity and you 7 analyze it, and you take -- you know, to the best of your 8 ability. 3 percent interest, 3.5, I mean, we're not going to 9 see that. I mean, if it -- recession comes, then inflation's 10 going to come right behind it. So these are, you know, 11 things that people have added to this list a little bit, you 12 know, other than the -- the items that we specifically put on 13 there. It's up to the Court to choose. You know, I just 14 gave you a list of what people have and haven't given me. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you take a breath just 16 for a second? Let me ask these guys something. Are y'all -- 17 especially you guys on the other end of the table that have 18 been working with this thing on the Ag Barn, are you sure 19 that that's a good number? You don't want to -- because of 20 the interest rates really being as good as we're probably 21 going to ever see, from now on, are you sure that this is the 22 amount y'all want to hang in with? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good question. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't want to add to 25 that some? 1-28-08 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me address the issue 2 of the description of capital projects. This is going to be 3 a tax anticipation obligation, and that's essentially the 4 security for the repayment. Other than describing capital 5 projects, -- 6 MS. HARGIS: That's all. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I don't -- I don't think you need 8 to even break it down further to Road and Bridge equipment or 9 courthouse improvements or renovations. I think you just say 10 capital projects and be done with it. I don't think -- 11 MS. HARGIS: In our issue -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you -- I think you can 13 move this stuff around any way you want to. 14 MS. HARGIS: This is just -- and I agree. This 15 is -- but we, ourselves, need sort of -- kind of a budget 16 that we can tie back to, so this is an internal budget. Our 17 external document will not reflect anything but capital. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question -- I have a couple 21 questions. All of the amortization schedules that you've 22 given us, Ms. Hargis, are predicated on 3.75, so you're 23 saying that right now, we think we can attract 3.5, which 24 changes the amortization schedules favorably? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 1-28-08 101 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct? 2 MS. HARGIS: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second question. Just for 4 my own edification, what is software reconfiguration of both 5 Odyssey and Incode? What is that all about? 6 MS. HARGIS: We need to bring the software 7 companies back in to repair the problems that we have. We 8 have a lot of -- and we have some new areas that we need to 9 write software for, okay, to patch the things that are wrong. 10 In doing my internal audits, there are some areas that are 11 causing us not to -- it's just not working properly, and we 12 need to fix it. This is not uncommon with this type of a 13 software. You go in and you buy what you need, and then you 14 work out the bugs. We need to work out the bugs. Now, I 15 don't know that we'll need this much money, but it was a 16 guess on my part, and I put it in. You -- you may want to 17 pull it back. We haven't had an opportunity to sit down with 18 them, but we are addressing all of these problems as we go 19 through in the internal audit process, and we know what we 20 need to make the system work better, more efficient, more 21 productive. And one of the things is that there's -- there's 22 a -- there's a payable side and there's an income side, but 23 you can't get them to come together to make an income 24 statement. So, we're having to -- to purchase cheaper brands 25 of software to implement that. So, we need -- there's just a 1-28-08 102 1 lot of little problems that -- and I have no idea how much 2 they're going to cost, 'cause I don't know anything about -- 3 that much about what Odyssey charges to -- again, I wasn't 4 here. So, Incode needs some tweaking as well, and we need -- 5 we need their people to come out, and it's very expensive. 6 The payroll needs to be -- it was originally loaded wrong. 7 It needs to be repaired. Part of it was the way we had it 8 loaded when it was loaded into the new system. 9 Unfortunately, these are just things that need to be done, 10 and -- and we got to have money to do them. And the software 11 package itself is not -- the first one is not -- that's just 12 a package. But, you know, we -- we spend a lot of time doing 13 spreadsheets and things of that nature, trying to get around 14 some of these problems, and we're not making it in some 15 areas. And so it's taken us hours to get from A to Z, when 16 it shouldn't take us 30 minutes. And -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 MS. HARGIS: So, it's just a repair. And I think 19 it's better to do it now than it get bigger. And -- and 20 before we do it, we'll come to you and we'll sit down with 21 them and get a cost estimate, the whole bit. And we're going 22 to try to, you know, discuss with them the possibility -- 23 some of these things are their fault, as well as some of them 24 are ours. But we need some additional programs written into 25 the stuff. 1-28-08 103 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. First amortization 2 of reduction payment will be in the '08-'09 budget year; is 3 that correct? 4 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we -- I haven't talked to 7 Commissioner Oehler about increasing the ag number, but I 8 just -- I kind of -- I'm worried that that may not be enough. 9 I know there's going to be some utility things we really 10 haven't thought a lot about that's going to be very expensive 11 that we're going to have to do. And we really haven't -- 12 another thing that, even if we aren't successful in going out 13 and getting grants, we have got to do some major improvements 14 to the arena. I think the utility changes that we need to do 15 in the arena alone are going to exceed probably 250,000. Can 16 we afford to put 500,000 for the Ag Barn? 17 MS. HARGIS: I think we can. Again, we'll 18 structure this, you know, to be lower on the front end. We 19 may do interest only on the first two years, because we've 20 got at least a half a million that is free -- actually, 21 closer to about 680,000 in that third year, and that -- you 22 know, that would take up -- that would pay it down quite a 23 bit. So -- and then you'd have 680 in the following year, so 24 you're still going to be able to pay it out. We may need to 25 stretch it to six years instead of five, but I think we can 1-28-08 104 1 do it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, if we were 3 six months down the road, we'd have a better handle on the Ag 4 Barn, but we're not. And we can turn around and not use it, 5 but I sure would -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be nice to have it there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- rather have it there than 8 not have it. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have some things that we 10 really need to do, and -- if we don't get enough grant money 11 to do the whole thing. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some of it we just have to 13 do. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather see us be 15 prepared to do it than have to stop because we didn't have 16 enough foresight to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And, too, if we have that 18 kind of money available, it will hip us in our grant process. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. That's the 20 way -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's an important 22 element. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's it right 24 there. That's the key. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to go after 1-28-08 105 1 some of that, for example, U.S.D.A. money real quick. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: U.S.D.A. and some others. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, when do you -- when do 4 you see us -- I mean, I agree with you that this is kind of 5 an internal budgeting process, and which I like a lot. But I 6 also understand what he's saying. When are we going to adopt 7 a number to give to Bob? 8 MS. HARGIS: Well, that's up to you. I would like 9 to -- now, remember, he said it's going to be at least eight 10 weeks. And some of these things we've already bought, so we 11 need to -- like the computers, so we need to be paying 12 ourselves back here. So, I would hate to see us go too far. 13 You know, I think we need to get on it, 'cause we're looking 14 at probably not being funded till April -- April, first of 15 May right now. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, I mean -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just add 250 to the bottom 18 and go. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just go to 1,750,000. Which is 20 -- you know, puts us at a round number, which I think is more 21 beneficial. I make a motion that we -- what are we doing on 22 this thing? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looking for a -- I make a 25 motion that we set the capital improvement loan amount at 1-28-08 106 1 $1,750,000, and the proceeds will cover capital items and 2 equipment. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that motion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make the 7 point that I have dealt with the Hysterical Commission of the 8 state before, and generally, when they say you cannot put 9 those kind of windows in your courthouse, they mean you 10 cannot put those kind of windows in your courthouse. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me address that, if I 12 might, Commissioner. As I read that statute on 13 architecturally significant matters with a courthouse 50 14 years of age or older, which is the statute we're dealing 15 with, there's a requirement that you put them on notice of 16 your intent to do whatever it is you intend to do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And they acknowledge that -- that 19 you put them on notice, and you thereafter are hung on the 20 hook for 180 days. They do not have the authority to tell 21 you you can or cannot do that, unless you decide you want 22 some of their money. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Which they're going come try and 25 tempt you with, and if you take their money, then they will 1-28-08 107 1 take control. If you don't take their money, you're just 2 hung on the hook for six months while they try and twist your 3 arm, hold a gun to your head, or whatever else they wish to 4 do in order to see it their way. But -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hope you're right. And -- 6 and if you are, then we -- we can pull this thing off. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the Judge is right. 9 And then if you -- if you looked at the paper this weekend, 10 you saw where -- how they came down with some grants and 11 denied a couple counties a major grant after they had spent 12 beaucoups of money to do what they asked them to do to get 13 ready for the grant application, Comal County being one of 14 those counties. They spent a ton of money to get ready, and 15 then were ultimately denied. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's amazing is they say 17 the reason that they get so tough is 'cause they don't want 18 -- they want the old type windows to make the courthouse look 19 like the old type courthouse, and that's the whole thing. 20 Well, unless you want their money, then we can change the 21 kind of windows. That's just -- that borders on nuts, to me. 22 But -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should be a fun workshop. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State law is state law, 25 guys. 1-28-08 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right, state law. We've -- 2 we've got a residual issue on the renovated portion of this 3 building, the annex. Those sashes are wooden sashes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And, guess what? Time for 6 maintenance. 7 MS. McMAHON: Judge Tinley, if I could just 8 interject, when you consider windows, I hope it's possible 9 architecturally to keep the old look and have the double-pane 10 argon gas-filled for the energy efficiency. I don't know 11 what they have. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It is possible to replicate the 13 look, replicate the colors you'll be using. What I submitted 14 to the Historical Commission would be a maintenance-free -- 15 or to the degree that's possible in today's world, 16 maintenance-free exterior. We're going to utilize the 17 interior wood frames and trim, but with energy-efficient 18 glass, either low-E glass or possibly double-pane. In all 19 probability, the -- using single lights, the difference 20 between that and the dividers being, in essence, false 21 dividers, but they give the same appearance. I don't know 22 whether we're going to be using double-pane or low-E, but 23 either way, it's going to increase energy efficiency, and I 24 think over a period of time, based upon the improvement, 25 we'll -- we'll be able to amortize that cost with energy 1-28-08 109 1 savings. 2 MS. McMAHON: How about light fixtures? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 4 MS. McMAHON: The new energy-saving bulbs, too. 5 Are those being considered? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Not with this particular -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we better put some 8 more -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're off the agenda; we can't 10 talk about light bulbs. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point, though. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, excellent point. I 13 just have one more question about our teleconferencing from 14 the jail. Now, didn't -- didn't we budget some in the 15 regular budget -- in our regular budget, the county budget? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We pulled that out into this -- into 17 this. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: As part of the I.T. package. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the same amount that 21 we talked about? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It is. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same with Juvenile 1-28-08 110 1 Detention Facility. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: This is just the initial phase, and 3 once we see how well that's accepted and how well it works, 4 how well utilized, why, then we'll -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I still can't get -- I 6 mean, I think it' a great program. I really like the idea. 7 But I just -- it seems so strange to me that we would spend 8 this kind of money and get the thing set up, and we don't 9 know if Junction or Menard's going to go with us or not. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The initial -- this initial phase 11 would not involve any of the other counties. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you can sit here, as a 13 Judge, and magistrate people out at the County Jail? That's 14 all this does? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Or even -- not just magistrate. 16 You'd be able to do arraignments, to do pleas, pretrial 17 proceedings. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From the jail to the Kerr 19 County Courthouse? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Save a lot of transporting. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And security. Security and 24 personnel -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Security too. 1-28-08 111 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think is the big issue there. 2 You know, you wouldn't gain a lot of judicial efficiency like 3 you would if you had a multi-county tie-together like I hope 4 we get to. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: As I've talked to you gentlemen 7 about. You know, I see that as something that's really going 8 to be something in the future. We'll gain a lot of judicial 9 efficiency there. Okay. We got a motion and a second, don't 10 we? 11 THE CLERK: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 1.75? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 15 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 16 signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay, we'll 21 move to Item 20, presentation of audits on the following 22 departments: Tax Assessor/Collector, Emergency Services 23 District Number 2, Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, 24 County Clerk, District Clerk. They pretty much speak for 25 themselves, don't they? 1-28-08 112 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. We're just about to get all 2 around. We have about eight more areas that we -- that are 3 under, and then we'll start going back around. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Start over again? 5 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like painting down at the 7 Texas coast; once you get to the end, you just go back and 8 start at the beginning. 9 MS. HARGIS: This was strictly a cash -- more of a 10 cash procedure type of a situation, and learning what the 11 departments do. This next one we're going to do is more an 12 internal control, and then we'll combine them to do a 13 once-a-year audit. We couldn't do them all at one time. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are we on your 15 recommendation in terms of improving the security at the 16 annex in Ingram? 17 MS. HARGIS: I haven't heard any more. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know, Commissioner 19 Oehler? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do what? I'm sorry, I was -- 21 I was looking into something. I was reading. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know where we are, 23 perhaps, on the recommendation for improving the security in 24 the Ingram office? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No clue. 1-28-08 113 1 MS. HARGIS: I think the Sheriff was supposed to 2 come back and give us a -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know any more than 4 that. They have not made me aware of any of it. 5 MS. HARGIS: I'll call them. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to follow up on that? 7 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you wish for us to take any 9 formal action, or is this just informational for our 10 purposes, as required by -- 11 MS. HARGIS: I think that the one you do need to 12 take formal action on accepting is the ESD. Under the Health 13 and Safety Code for ESD's, you're supposed to accept the ESD 14 audit. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'll make a motion we 16 accept all audits as presented. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think the agenda item is 18 going to let do you that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, we can't? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Presentation only. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do it next time. 24 MS. HARGIS: So, next time. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 21; consider, 1-28-08 114 1 discuss, take appropriate action to authorize participation 2 in TexPool, and designating an authorized representative. 3 MS. HARGIS: My turn again? I might as well just 4 stand up. TexPool is very similar to a money market pool 5 that was developed by the former Treasurer, Kay Bailey 6 Hutchison. It's a pool of municipalities only, and it's a -- 7 a very good way of earning interest. It's a daily interest. 8 We would have the ability of putting a lot of our money there 9 and earning a much higher rate of interest, and then bringing 10 it down. It's an immediate -- I mean, you can put it up for 11 a day, you can bring it back down. What I'm doing is just 12 getting you to authorize us so that we can put in the 13 resolutions to get some accounts with them. It doesn't mean 14 that we're going to have -- right now, I don't know exactly 15 how much money, but we -- we think that this would be one of 16 the tools that we need in our investment portfolio. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And as part of that resolution, we 18 would need to authorize an individual or individuals to act 19 on behalf of Kerr County? 20 MS. HARGIS: Right, and I would assume that would 21 be Mindy and myself. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Makes sense to me. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Independent? Or -- either one? 24 Both? 25 MS. HARGIS: The way that TexPool is set up, you 1-28-08 115 1 have to do it together. And the only thing you can do in 2 TexPool is you can wire it to TexPool and wire it back to the 3 parent -- the main account. You can't wire it anywhere else. 4 It'll go to TexPool and back to your account. That's all you 5 can do with it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the authorization requires 7 both you and Mindy to incur what y'all -- 8 MS. HARGIS: She would make the wire; I would make 9 the approval. They require that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mindy, do you approve? 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I do. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Second -- first, 14 maybe. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 20 indicated to participate and authorize a resolution, upon the 21 joint authorization of the Treasurer and the Auditor. 22 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 23 by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 1-28-08 116 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We've got a 3 couple of executive session items, and why don't we go ahead 4 with the latter part of our agenda to get that out of the way 5 before we run everybody out? We'll go to Section 4 of the 6 agenda. First item is to pay the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got three or four days 8 worth of questions here, but -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Start with today. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'll just thumb 11 through here and see what I'll let slide. Here's one I can't 12 let go. Page 11, Jury Fund. Juror chairs. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Those were approved in the 14 budget. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Next page, 216th 16 District Court, Gaddis Court Reporting. Special court 17 reporter, or what is that? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's court reporting services. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we have a court reporter 20 that probably took a vacation or something like that? And we 21 had to -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Presumably, they had the need for a 23 contract court reporter. I don't know whether that's a one 24 day or one and a half day, or -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was 216th. Next page 1-28-08 117 1 is 198th, exactly the same thing, different company, $5,209. 2 MS. HARGIS: Some of this is research and redoing 3 -- help me with this -- the -- the notes that the court 4 reporter takes down, and for a trial -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The big item, the 5,200, 6 Commissioner, -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- there was a statement of facts, 9 I'm sure, that was prepared in connection with a case that 10 went up on appeal for an indigent defendant, for which we get 11 to pay the freight. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And that money went to the court 14 reporter, the official court reporter of the 198th Court, for 15 preparing that statement of facts. I know that's exactly 16 what you wanted to hear, wasn't it? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it wasn't exactly. Page 18 14, the last item, Premier Reporting. Is that the same 19 thing? 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it's a court transcript. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have three different 22 companies in 198th doing work that we already pay somebody to 23 do, in my opinion. I'll let that go. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't spare us. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, no, no. I'm under the 1-28-08 118 1 constables now, on Page 32. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Moving right along. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: G.T. Distributors, Operating 4 Equipment, $441. What -- what could that -- what could that 5 be? Is that ammunition? Or -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. We had some discussion 7 on this same line item last couple meetings. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 MS. HARGIS: This -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Uniform expense. 11 MS. HARGIS: This was uniform -- no, this was 12 actually a -- either -- repair, I believe, of something. I'm 13 sorry, I don't remember exactly. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the constable in 3 has 15 got the same thing, different number. 16 MS. HARGIS: It may have been ammunition. I'm 17 sorry. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only one that doesn't have 19 that is Precinct 4. 20 MS. HARGIS: It's the only item they have besides 21 the salary. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Operating Equipment. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the answer is? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: It's here somewhere. 25 MS. HARGIS: 62249, and then the other one is 1-28-08 119 1 62250. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Needs two more hands to 4 come at it from both ends. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure do. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: While we're waiting on 7 him -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 MS. HARGIS: What else? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty buys Tahoes and -- and 11 finances from -- buys a Chevrolet Tahoe and finances them 12 through the Ford -- 13 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a strange thing 16 about the purchase this year. 17 MS. HARGIS: And the Tahoes are here, all three of 18 them. The cars are not, by the way. The cars -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 40. It's just -- it's 20 just a name that I don't recognize. The Historical 21 Commission for a camera, Francelle Collins. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: New member of the 23 Commission. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: New board member? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 1-28-08 120 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't see her name on 2 that list of board members, but that's what I'm saying. I 3 just didn't recognize that. A new board member? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll stop there. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go back to Page -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 32. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- 32. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm having a devil of a time finding 10 that one, Commissioner, 62249. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have one, while you're 12 looking. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's hard to get good help, 14 isn't it? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It is. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On the Sheriff's budget, on 17 Page -- I think it's 28. I don't have my glasses. Utilities 18 for the Clearwater Paseo, $2,977.14 for water. That seems 19 like an awful lot of money for water. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've gone up on the 21 rates again. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have they? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could you do a comparison 25 from past months? 1-28-08 121 1 MS. HARGIS: I did when I first got here. I'll do 2 it again. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Might be easy for you to do 4 that. Seems like an awfully high bill. We must have a 5 broken water main. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is a lot of money, 7 3,000 bucks. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $3,000 for water. 9 MS. HARGIS: The commercial rate is pretty high. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me 11 at all. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we ought to drill a 13 well. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They flush a lot of 15 commodes out there. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that, but there 17 are low-flush toilets. 18 MS. HARGIS: There was also over the Christmas 19 holidays, and we had a full house. Did you did you find it? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. The -- the Precinct 2 21 constable, most of that money was spent on an AC/DC charger 22 for a light system; it was $115. And then there was some 23 practice ammo; that was $150. Then we had various and sundry 24 other smaller charges through there. There are some 25 handcuffs, some -- another charging unit, charger cord, 1-28-08 122 1 defense spray. I guess that's one of them. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pepper spray or something. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's that one. The 6 -- the 4 50, which is Precinct 3, pretty much the same duke's mixture. 5 Biggest item, of course, is bullets. Quantity of bullets. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Generally, operating equipment. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't get in the way of the 8 constable. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If he can't hit you, he'll 10 spray you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I won't get that close to 12 him. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, what else? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 17 bills. Question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: One item, Flasher Equipment Company 20 on Page 46, Road and Bridge. Contract fees for Sheppard Rees 21 and Elm Pass, 9,000 and 15,5 respectively. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Striping, probably. 23 MS. HARGIS: It's -- well, it was a lot of 24 material. I mean, you know, either the asphalt or rock. We 25 bought a lot of paving stuff. 1-28-08 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: With Flasher Equipment? They put up 2 barriers and all. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: I think they buy the reflective 4 paint for striping and stuff from them. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Yeah, that stuff is 6 expensive. 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, they've been doing a lot of 8 roads, if you look at how many roads they've done. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That stuff's over a dollar a 11 foot. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. We actually even checked their 13 budget, 'cause they had so much go through at the time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They did a double stripe on 16 Elm Pass all the way out. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any other question or 18 discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you been on Elm Pass? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you been on Elm Pass? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, last week. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just checking. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 25 by raising your right hand. 1-28-08 124 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 5 any budget amendments? 6 MS. HARGIS: No. No, sir, we're going to do those 7 once a month. You'll see them next month on the 11th for the 8 January ones. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any late bills? 10 MS. HARGIS: No. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 12 reports for the Emergency Service District Number 2. Do I 13 hear a motion to approve that report as presented? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved -- second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the monthly report for Emergency Service District 18 Number 2 as presented. Question or discussion? All in favor 19 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Reports from 24 Commissioners? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 1-28-08 125 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Two? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, just a quickie or 3 two, Judge. AACOG Distance Learning program that's being set 4 up out at the Kerr County Sheriff's Office is now really 5 functional, and there's some free peace officer training 6 going on beginning -- began the 14th, several different 7 topics. So, I just wanted to let you know that's going on, 8 and it's being well received. And there are participants, 9 and it's two-way. They can interact with the instructor back 10 and forth, and it's working real well. Had some problems 11 getting that thing up, but it's working beautifully right 12 now. And then the other thing has to do with just a quick 13 note for the Court's benefit. You may recall, we had this 14 Community Council of South Texas in here last time, which 15 they talked about grant applications and wanting us to do 16 some blanket authorizations for their purposes. There was an 17 article in the Express News having to do with "Troubled 18 Agency May Get Help From AACOG." That's probably a little 19 premature. In terms of help, what was discussed at the AACOG 20 Board meeting last week was the possibility of -- of entering 21 into a contract with former AACOG Executive Director Al 22 Notzon to go down and do an absolute total assessment of that 23 agency, the scope and breadth of their problems, and his 24 recommendations as to what it would take perhaps to correct 25 that. For that article to suggest that AACOG is going to 1-28-08 126 1 take over their programs is very premature. So, what we 2 ended up doing was approving, upon a request -- formal 3 request from the Community Services folks down in Seguin for 4 that type of an assessment by Mr. Notzon, to approve doing 5 it. But it's not going to happen very quickly, and there's 6 not a lot of great anticipation on the part of the Board 7 we're going to take that agency over. F.Y.I. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple things. Here's -- I 11 want to hand out a brochure from the Texas Forest Service 12 about outdoor burning. I think I forwarded one to Rex. If 13 not, I will. I meant to. It has a -- it's a combination of 14 the law, the penalties, guidance. It's the whole bit about 15 outdoor burning, and it's pretty informative. I think we'll 16 probably put this on our web site. It kind of goes over a 17 lot of -- well, the whole ball of wax. Also, the Texas 18 Forest Service has agreed to come over to the courthouse yard 19 and give our maintenance crew advice on tree trimming, their 20 expertise in that area. 21 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the other item I have 23 is, in late January we discussed putting together a committee 24 for looking at the jail situation, and I was supposed to put 25 that back on the agenda for us to make the appointments in 1-28-08 127 1 early January. I forgot to do it, so I'm going to put it on 2 our next agenda. You may want to come up -- each come up 3 with a name to put on that committee to look at the long-term 4 jail issues for the county. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is really good. 6 You're suggesting that it goes in as an attachment on our web 7 site? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's great. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm visiting with John, and 11 probably a couple of those items I want to highlight even 12 more as well. But it kind of -- it's a -- covers everything, 13 really, in one brochure, and I think it's pretty good. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me see. Liaison duties, 17 Environmental Health has been involved in getting some 18 problems resolved in various places, one being the Ingram 19 school, and I think they're still working. And I believe 20 it's waiting for an approval now. Camp Verde Store is 21 another one. And they have also had a few installers that 22 have not been wanting to conform to turning their paperwork 23 in timely on previous jobs, and they have not been allowed to 24 get another permit to construct until those items are 25 resolved, and that is working well. 1-28-08 128 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure it would. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's amazing how quickly they 3 can bring those documents in whenever they know they can't go 4 to work without them. And that's -- I think that's a real 5 plus. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a real good 7 plan. One of those issues is in Precinct 2 right now. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, and it's just -- and 9 something -- we've had an instance where it's been a couple 10 of installers that may have started a project without a 11 permit, and were reported, and have been issued a warning, a 12 one-warning-only citation. And I don't believe if they -- if 13 it happens again, they know what the consequences are. 14 Animal Control had a busted water line last week during the 15 cold weather, during the stock show time, and called for 16 repair, and supposed to be fixed. It was not, so we may have 17 a big water bill from that next month, because it was -- it 18 was not fixed timely by people that are under contract by the 19 hour to do those things for us. And we need to stay on top 20 of those kind of things to make sure if they're going to do 21 this work for the County, they need to be responsible, 22 especially when we have an emergency. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we ask for a reduction in 24 our bill? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we should. 1-28-08 129 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should, too. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There's already been communication 3 to that contractor that -- that that was not an acceptable 4 situation. So, the setup is there to -- if we take a look 5 and it's a pretty big hickey, some sort of a charge back, 6 possibly. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Evidently, it was bad enough 8 to where they could still have water in the Animal Shelter to 9 feed and water, but there was more water being pumped into 10 the ground than on top of the ground through the main line 11 that enters the property on the opposite side of the feeder 12 from where it goes round and round. So, you know, that 13 didn't get fixed in a timely manner. I think it -- I know 14 it's been fixed now, but just one of those things. The Ag 15 Barn, of course, we were out there for stock show. I don't 16 know; I think that's probably enough. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any report from elected 18 officials? 19 MR. EMERSON: Just a quick comment. Many of you 20 may know Ron Bowen, active member of St. Peter's Church, owns 21 Church's Chicken in four different counties, he died of 22 unknown causes Saturday. My understanding is they're doing 23 an autopsy, and funeral arrangements are yet to be made. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How old a fellow was he? 25 MR. EMERSON: 45. 1-28-08 130 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: About your age. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About my age. That's young. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Beyond your age -- little 5 before your age. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? At this time, we 7 will go out of open or public session -- it's 11:59 -- to go 8 into executive or closed session for the items we have to 9 consider there. 10 (The open session was closed at 11:59 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 11 is contained in a separate document.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Does any member of the Court have 14 anything to offer as a result of the matters discussed in 15 executive session? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you kidding? 17 (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just thought he'd ask. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? We'll be 20 adjourned. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:26 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 1-28-08 131 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of February, 8 2008. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-28-08