1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, February 25, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 25, 2008 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 5 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 9 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve use of the District Courtroom for the 5 Republican Party County Convention on March 29, 2008, from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. 11 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 abandon, vacate, and discontinue a 15-foot reserve strip and the portion of Church Street 8 that lies within the Tomm property; set public hearing for same 12 9 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to name 10 a private road in accordance with 911 Guidelines 20 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for final revision of plat for Lots 14-18 of Solar 12 Village 21 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve Road and Bridge Vehicle Policy 23 14 1.8 Open bids for electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and 15 pest control 32 16 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for final revision of plat for Lots 5A & 5B, Grotto 17 Springs Ranch I 33 18 1.7 Consider/discuss, accept Kerr County Sheriff's Office 2007 Racial Profiling Report 34 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 appoint members to joint County/City committees to look at issues related to library, health 21 benefits, Road and Bridge, EMS, broadband services, ETJ, dispatch, animal control, fire services, and 22 reverse 911 services 35, 55 23 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on giving notice to City of Kerrville concerning 24 problems with the ETJ agreement for subdivisions 44 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 25, 2008 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 request from Hill Country Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse to have County Judge sign a memorandum 4 of understanding so they may apply for funding with Department of State Health Services 49 5 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 authorize Human Resources Department to seek application for open position of department head 7 for Court Compliance Department (Executive Session) -- 8 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to give a merit raise to Nona Tucker (Executive Session) -- 9 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed 10 in executive session 53 11 4.1 Pay Bills 72 4.2 Budget Amendments -- 12 4.3 Late Bills -- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 72 13 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 14 Assignments 73 15 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding an order to authorize issuance of 16 tax notes 85 17 --- Adjourned 99 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, February 25, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this regular 8 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and 9 scheduled for this time and date, Monday, February 25th, 10 2008, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. If you would, please 11 stand and join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the 12 pledge of allegiance. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this time, 15 if there's any member of the audience or the public that 16 wishes to be heard with respect to any item that is not a 17 listed or posted agenda item, feel free to come forward at 18 this time. If you wish to be heard on any item that is a 19 listed agenda item, we'd ask that you wait until that item is 20 called, and we would prefer that you fill out a participation 21 form that's located at the back of the room. That helps me 22 to be sure to not skip over that agenda item without giving 23 you the opportunity to be heard. If, for some reason, we 24 come to an agenda item that you wish to be heard on and you 25 haven't filled out a participation form, get my attention in 2-25-08 5 1 some manner and I'll give you the opportunity to be heard. 2 But right now, if there's any member of the public or 3 audience take wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a 4 listed agenda item, come forward at this time. Yes, ma'am? 5 Come forward, and give us your name and address. 6 MS. ENGLE: My name is Karen Engle and I live at 7 3310 Riverside Drive. I come in here on February 11th, and I 8 was issue number one; it was about animal control and my dog. 9 Since then, I've gone to court for my ticket. I want to show 10 you some pictures of my dog, and y'all need to see them, what 11 my dogs looks like. This dog has been mistaken for a pit 12 bull by Animal Control for quite some time. These are 13 pictures of my dog, okay? My dog is not a hateful, rude dog. 14 My dog was not raised to fight. He was not raised to bite. 15 He was not raised to be aggressive unless he was aggressed 16 upon, or anybody was aggressing on me. He is for my 17 protection. I left San Antonio several years ago and was 18 under protection from a bad divorce. And when I left -- this 19 is the -- this was a puppy that I bottle-fed, okay? I 20 bottle-fed this puppy. This dog is not aggressive, 21 regardless of what Animal Control says. Yeah, when Animal 22 Control's coming at him with a pole with a loop on the end 23 and strangling him and dragging him to a truck, he's going to 24 be aggressive. I would. Wouldn't you, if somebody was 25 coming at you with a pole with a loop on it and putting it 2-25-08 6 1 around your neck and dragging you to a truck? Because you're 2 running around? 3 My dog's been taken in three times. That's it, 4 three times. And brought to my house one time. I have 5 signed three papers getting him out of Animal Control, and 6 that's it. She stated that -- last time she was here that 7 she had dealt with me on more than five occasions, or five or 8 more occasions. That is not true. She's not telling me the 9 truth. She also -- when I did go to court, I was sitting 10 next to a lady -- because I can't afford to pay for this 11 ticket. Do you know how much these tickets are, just by 12 chance? Does any -- do y'all -- all of you know? This 13 ticket is now $264, okay? I make $700, $800 a month. That's 14 it. I don't have the money to pay for this, so I'm going to 15 have to do community service to take care of this ticket. 16 Because Janie called ahead to the prosecuting attorney and 17 told her under no -- under no circumstances let me out of 18 this ticket; that she has dealt with my dog several times, 19 that my dog is a nuisance to the public, that under no 20 circumstances should she let me out of this ticket. 21 Because my dog had gotten out of a broken window. 22 I had a broken window in my house, and he had gotten out, and 23 she had let me out of the first ticket. This time there was 24 no talking to her, because Janie had already called ahead to 25 talk to her, and -- and told her that I came and filed a 2-25-08 7 1 complaint here, and there was no budging her at all. She was 2 firm. Janie has got her set; I am not going to get out of 3 this ticket. While I was sitting there waiting for my 4 paperwork to come through, I was sitting next to a lady, and 5 the lady -- I said, "What are you here for?" "I had a dog at 6 large." "Oh, really? Me too. How much is your ticket?" 7 Hers was, like, 160-something, because it was from last year, 8 and the rates went up this year, okay? Her daughter just had 9 open-heart surgery, and her dog was sitting on her front 10 porch while she was away from the house. Her dog lifts the 11 latch off the gate and goes and sits on the front porch, 12 'cause that's where he likes to be. Janie removed her dog 13 from her front porch, just like they did mine, except they 14 didn't dart that dog. Okay? This lady is going to have to 15 pay it out, because her daughter had open-heart surgery. 16 She's going to have to pay out her ticket too however she can 17 too. 18 This isn't just about me. It's about everybody 19 that -- that these people are ticketing. I think that Animal 20 Control has a ticket book in their hand, and I think they're 21 abusing it. I think they're taking their authority way too 22 far. I think that if you impound a dog, charge an impound 23 fee to get him out, sure, but these tickets are ridiculous. 24 These tickets are not right. You know, I live in a 25 neighborhood that has ten houses, a park, the Ag Barn, and 2-25-08 8 1 across the river is a state park. I am not in a 2 well-populated area. I don't deserve this treatment from 3 Animal Control board, at all. At all. I think that she has 4 just come at me with a vengeance. Most people that I've 5 talked to that have had to deal with Animal Control board do 6 not want to deal with Janie. Even the people that -- I don't 7 know how much time I have, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you should be reasonable in 9 your time. 10 MS. ENGLE: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You probably already have taken more 12 time than is normal. 13 MS. ENGLE: I'm sorry, sir. I'm real upset about 14 this issue, okay? Most people that I've talked to have said 15 that they do not like dealing with her, even the people that 16 she gets her dogs from -- the people that take in her dogs 17 from the Animal Control, to -- to adopt them out don't even 18 like dealing with her because she's so rude, okay? I think 19 that they need to focus on wildlife that's out there, rabid 20 animals, things that are attacking other things, and leave 21 the public alone, really. This is has gone way too far. And 22 I take my dog to the park once a day and I run that dog. 23 That dog loves to run, and that's the only time he is off his 24 lead or out of my house. And he runs to the park with me 25 while I drive, and he runs back and he gets on my porch, and 2-25-08 9 1 we go inside. Occasionally he gets loose, but I don't think 2 that I deserve these tickets and treatment that I've gotten 3 from Animal Control board. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Engle. Because of 5 the styling of the matter in the visitors' input, we're 6 unable to -- 7 MS. ENGLE: I know that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- unable to respond in any manner. 9 So, your items are up here. We'll get them back to you. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, tell her about when 11 you come at me with that pole and that loop on the end of it. 12 (Laughter.) 13 MS. ENGLE: Do you like it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. 15 MS. ENGLE: Well, I don't like it either. I 16 wouldn't want -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, other than the 18 pole and the loop, what do you have for us? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I was -- that upset me 20 so much, I can't talk about it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll pass, Judge. 23 MR. GONZALES: Could I have five minutes of your 24 time, sir? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? 2-25-08 10 1 MS. ENGLE: He's on my sheet. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this the same issue? 3 MS. ENGLE: Yes. 4 MR. GONZALES: Yes, sir, but I've got other things 5 to say. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the same issue? 7 MR. GONZALES: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, you may not. Thank you. 9 Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to briefly mention one 11 item, because there's a lot of people in the audience that -- 12 some of them are interested in it. We're going to be 13 scheduling a workshop later today, at the end of the meeting, 14 related to O.S.S.F., subdivision rules, County Attorney's 15 office, kind of as to how we're working through some of our 16 new rules, partly related to some issues with -- I guess some 17 opinions received as to what needs to go through 18 Environmental Health, and also go over some of the new 19 requirements on small-acreage lots that we adopted under the 20 Texas Water Development Board model rules, kind of explain to 21 everyone. I think there's some confusion about how all that 22 works, but that'll be set up a little bit later in the 23 meeting, but I just wanted to let people know it's coming up. 24 That's it. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have anything, other 2-25-08 11 1 than please don't burn anything. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ditto that. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be careful when you set up -- 4 tomorrow's going to be another real windy day, and it's real 5 dry. We hope we won't have any more fires. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's supposed to get windy 7 this afternoon and continue on through tomorrow, so be 8 careful. Pay attention. Okay, let's move on with our 9 agenda. The first item on the agenda is to consider, 10 discuss, and take appropriate action to approve the use of 11 the district courtroom for the Republican Party county 12 convention on March 29th, 2008, from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. That 13 group has utilized the facility in the past for the 14 convention. This, I think, is something that has occurred -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Almost every year -- every 16 other year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- every year within my memory 18 that -- that it's been an election year. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? You 23 wish to be heard, Mr. Nemec? 24 MR. NEMEC: No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion? 2-25-08 12 1 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 2 hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 7 MR. NEMEC: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 2, if we might. 9 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to abandon, 10 vacate, and discontinue a 15-foot reserve strip and the 11 portion of Church Street that lies within the Tomm property 12 and set a public hearing for the same, that property being 13 located in Precinct 2. 14 MR. ODOM: There's presently a 15-foot reserve 15 strip filled in -- filed in Volume R, Page 212, that goes 16 from Swayze Street in Center Point to the river. It is 17 totally within Ms. Lynn Tomm's property. Church Street, a 18 County-maintained road, contains 157.68 feet into the 19 property and terminates. Ms. Tomm is asking the Court to 20 abandon, vacate, and discontinue both the easement and that 21 portion of Church Street past the Swayze Street intersection. 22 By doing this, it will make the three parcels totaling 23 6.5 acres a contiguous lot, and she can gate the entrance to 24 her property. Road and Bridge has no need for the reserve 25 strip and feels that the traffic flow would be safer without 2-25-08 13 1 the dead-end portion of the road. If this is agreeable with 2 the Court, we ask that you set a public hearing for 3 April 14th, 2008, at 10:10 a.m. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What date, again? Which -- 5 April what? 6 MR. ODOM: April the -- excuse me -- 10th -- I mean 7 April the 14th. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 14th. 9 MR. ODOM: 2008, at 10:10. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that we set a public 11 hearing on the abandonment of the reserve strip -- 15-foot 12 reserve strip on the property by the -- held by the Tomms in 13 Precinct 2, and set a public hearing for 4-14, April 14, at 14 10 a.m. in the morning. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 17 public hearing on the matter for April 14, 2008, at 18 10:10 a.m. Question or discussion on the motion? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard? 20 MR. ODOM: Yes? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just something I'm curious 22 about. This says it would be safer without the dead-end 23 portion of the road. 24 MR. ODOM: That's -- yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It has to dead-end 2-25-08 14 1 somewhere. 2 MR. ODOM: It dead-ends right at the river, Buster. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it goes all the way 4 to the river through this property, but Swayze Street comes 5 in and intersects with Church Street right at the -- at 6 the -- at what would be the south side of the property line 7 of these people's property, so the easement that goes all the 8 way to the river is no longer necessary. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 10 MR. ODOM: And this used to be something in 1895. 11 My experience in Castroville was, that was an easement to get 12 people down to the water during droughts. Even -- we had 13 that in Castroville; the street beside me was mine, I 14 maintained it, but it would still allow people to get down to 15 the river for livestock. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I find it interesting, this 17 warranty deed that you gave us a copy of is dated from 1895, 18 and it's from a family called Williams to the McElroys. 19 McElroy is an old standing family in Center Point that held 20 that property for many years. 21 MR. ODOM: Many years. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. The tract that's located 23 immediately east of -- the portion of Church Street that 24 extends into -- beyond Swayze Street and the 15-foot 25 easement, that's the Tomm property that we're talking about? 2-25-08 15 1 MR. ODOM: To the left and to the right, that would 2 be -- to the east she owns -- Ms. Tomm owns that to the east. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What about -- what about the tract 4 that's described as 1.59-acre -- 5 MR. ODOM: She also owns that also. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to the west? 7 MR. ODOM: She owns that also. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the same property owners 9 both -- 10 MR. ODOM: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on the east and the west? 12 MR. ODOM: East and west on that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And north too, right? 15 MR. ODOM: And north too. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All three -- well, there's 17 only one piece there. 18 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is this -- is this legal to 20 do this once it's been dedicated to the public? 21 MR. ODOM: Statutes say that you can name that 22 limit, and that really is -- I mean, we can maintain a road 23 10 feet if you wanted to. We'd only need a public hearing 24 for that. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 2-25-08 16 1 MR. ODOM: We'll still maintain the road. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Won't be any road to 3 maintain in this case, because the road ends at their -- at 4 the south side of their property and takes a sharp left on 5 Swayze and goes out to 480. 6 MR. ODOM: Goes out to 480. So, we're not cutting 7 anybody off, that through traffic. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't see this is any 10 different than abandoning any road. 11 MR. ODOM: Any road. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a requirement for a 13 petition to abandon this -- we're abandoning two things. 14 We're eliminating two things. One is an easement, and I 15 assume that's an easement for the public. And number two is 16 a portion of -- of Church Street that extended into there. 17 Does that require a petition, or do either of them require a 18 petition? 19 MR. EMERSON: Well, there's certain statutory 20 requirements for both of them, but the short answer would be, 21 since I don't have any information and don't know anything 22 about this particular issue, I'd rather look at it before I 23 fire off an answer. 24 MR. ODOM: May I clarify something, Judge? That to 25 the west, that property on the west, that 15-foot easement, 2-25-08 17 1 that belongs to that piece of land right there which Ms. Tomm 2 owns. It's not public. It's a private easement -- 15-foot 3 easement, so she owns that outright. The only thing is that 4 portion of the road, Swayze, that goes and dead-ends right 5 there, it brings -- it brings the street almost up to the old 6 house that was built in the 1800's. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the 15-foot easement was 8 granted to whom, for what purpose? 9 MR. ODOM: Was granted to that lot, that 10 1.59 acres. I don't know why, but that was the easement. Am 11 I correct, Ms. Tomms? 12 MS. TOMM: 1895. It was just from one landowner; 13 he just reserved 15 feet. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 15 MS. TOMM: It's in that -- there's -- did you get 16 the handwritten deed there? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come identify yourself and 18 tell us -- 19 MS. TOMM: I'm Lynn Tomm. And I -- do you have -- 20 that handwritten deed, right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 MS. TOMM: And it states on there they reserved -- 23 Mr. Williams reserved 15 feet off of that property. And 24 that's been like that now since 1895. 25 MR. ODOM: And since she owns that portion, as well 2-25-08 18 1 as the rest of the land, she just wants to eliminate the 2 whole thing. 3 MS. TOMM: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I think 5 we're probably doing the right thing setting the public 6 hearing. I think Rex needs some time to look at this. The 7 road issue's pretty clear; we have the ability to abandon the 8 road. The easement, I think you probably need to do a little 9 bit of research as to who the easement is to. We may not 10 have any interest in that easement. 11 MR. ODOM: I don't think we do. 12 MS. TOMM: And the interesting thing is, the 13 easement is a 50-foot ravine, so I doubt that there's going 14 to be a lot of, you know, use of it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the matter as to who 16 abandons the easement may be an issue. It may not be the 17 County's to abandon, but the road we clearly can abandon. 18 MR. ODOM: That portion. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That little piece of Church 20 Street. 21 MS. TOMM: Would anyone have to abandon the 22 easement? I mean, these are going to be -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, whoever is the current holder 24 of the benefit under that easement. If -- if the easement 25 were reserved, which it obviously was, for the benefit of the 2-25-08 19 1 property owner that reserved the easement, -- 2 MS. TOMM: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- whoever the successor in interest 4 to that property is, is probably the one that has the ability 5 to terminate that easement and surrender it, it would occur 6 to me. Now, that's something that I think Mr. Emerson needs 7 to take a look at. 8 MS. TOMM: A little genealogy, 113 years later, to 9 figure out -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I think our -- 11 MS. TOMM: 'Cause that was sold -- the Williams' 12 sold it to the McElroys in 1895, so I don't -- I mean -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think all -- I mean, I'm 14 looking to Rex, only to tell me if the County has an interest 15 in abandoning that easement. The other -- if it's not the 16 County's to abandon, then you'll have to find an attorney to 17 tell you who it is. That's a civil matter at that point, 18 between you and whoever. But I think Rex can determine if 19 it's County interest -- if the County has an interest in that 20 easement or not. 21 MS. TOMM: How do I track who, after this -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why you may need to get 23 an attorney, if -- if the County doesn't have the easement. 24 First step is, you need the public hearing, and let Rex -- 25 MR. ODOM: We'll set the public hearing to abandon 2-25-08 20 1 this road. 2 MS. TOMM: The road, okay. 3 MR. ODOM: Let Rex -- if he has an opportunity to 4 look at this, for your -- I would assume if you sold it -- 5 I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume if she sold it, in the 6 restrictions and covenants, she could negate that, could she 7 not? 8 MR. EMERSON: I'm not going to answer anything till 9 I see documents on it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably -- 11 MR. ODOM: I still would like to set the public 12 hearing. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First step first. 14 MR. ODOM: First step first. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Set the public hearing. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 17 on the motion for a public hearing? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 23 to Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 24 name a private road in accordance with 911 guidelines. 25 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I don't know if we would 2-25-08 21 1 describe this as a road. It's existing. It's up in your 2 precinct; more of a driveway, but the address is 850 Sheppard 3 Rees, and Mike and Evelyn Hickey have asked to name this 4 private road Steepside. So, I ask the Court if they would 5 name that drive Steepside. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Any further 10 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 16 to Item 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 17 final revision of plat for Lots 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18 of 18 Solar Village as set forth in Volume 4, Page 277, Plat 19 Records, and located in Precinct 1. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The public hearing for this 21 revision was done January 14th, 2008. There are two homes on 22 five lots. Mr. Morgan owns Lots 14, 15, and 16. Mr. Riley 23 owns 17 and 18. The owners have revised the plat under the 24 alternate plat process to make two lots out of five. Lot 15B 25 will be 2.62 acres, and lot 17B will be 1.82 acres. Both 2-25-08 22 1 lots are served by a private water system. The roads are 2 dedicated. We ask that you approve the plat as presented. 3 There was a problem; O.S.S.F. was involved in it, and we 4 resolved that issue, and had to change Lot 18 to accommodate 5 that at that time. This was where the house was built over 6 the lot line, if you remember, up there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lot 18. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is now part of 17B? 10 MR. ODOM: That's right. When we first presented 11 this, O.S.S.F. did not have enough time. When they looked at 12 it, they said they wanted that lot combined because of the 13 spray head or something like that, for septic system. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All the great minds have 15 gathered on this thing, and this is the best solution, and I 16 agree with it. 17 MR. ODOM: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I move for approval. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 22 motion? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. And this is just a 24 point, so the rest of the Court remembers this when we have 25 our workshop on this topic. The question's come up, is it 2-25-08 23 1 appropriate -- the only reason there are buildings and 2 structures on this final plat is because it's an alternate 3 plat process, to go through quickly. Ordinarily, it's a -- 4 we think it's a bad policy to put these things on final 5 plats. So, we need to figure out how we're going to handle 6 that if we're doing alternate plats. Just -- just to keep in 7 the back of everyone's brain. Doesn't affect this, really, 8 but it's a -- you know, how we're going to handle some of 9 these with O.S.S.F. requirements that we're now having to 10 look at. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 13 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 18 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 19 approve Road and Bridge vehicle policy. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Enclosed is the revised 21 vehicle policy for Road and Bridge that we discussed several 22 weeks ago. For informational purposes, I've enclosed Court 23 Order Number 26067 approving the policy in October of 1999, 24 and the completed forms of the employees that were approved 25 under the order. Also enclosed is a policy done last year 2-25-08 24 1 after the ice storm for both -- from both Eva Hyde and me 2 outlining the job requirements during an emergency. And if 3 an employee lives in an area that is cut off during extreme 4 weather, they will need to make arrangements to get out 5 before the roads are impassable. To help accommodate this 6 requirement, you've allowed us to purchase the FEMA mobile 7 home that was placed in the Ingram yard. At this time, I ask 8 that you approve the policy as presented, and ask if a signed 9 copy of the document needs to be filed anywhere other than 10 our office, which is for the vehicles. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, a couple of minor language 12 changes in that very first paragraph. On the third line, 13 where it reads "these men," it should probably read "these 14 employees" or "these individuals." 15 MR. ODOM: These employees. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And then towards the end of that 18 line, after the comma after "areas," insert the word "and" 19 while in the truck. 20 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, say that one again? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: "And" before "while." 22 MR. ODOM: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Delete "he has" and substitute the 24 words "will have." 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You ever thought about 2-25-08 25 1 becoming a lawyer? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good stuff. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's infringing on my 5 wordsmith stuff. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got all those same things 8 marked. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You got some more? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I do. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll let Bill run with the rest of 12 them. 13 MR. ODOM: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you may have some 15 more. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's -- I'm going to leave it 17 to you now for the more -- the more finite wordsmithing. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Item C, "they have 19 contact." I would suggest you change that to, "Each has 20 contact with each other, our office, and Animal Control." 21 Got it? 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Item 2, second line. I 24 would delete the word "motoring" and just say, "for the 25 well-being of the public." And down on your third dot under 2-25-08 26 1 Personal Use, "Commuting to and from work unless in an 2 assigned vehicle." And that's all I've got. I had the same 3 ones the Judge had. 4 MR. ODOM: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about this one? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 7 MR. ODOM: Do you wish to come back with another 8 agenda item, or -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm on the -- the, I guess, 11 internal policy for Road and Bridge emergency response. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to -- what are we 13 voting on? Is this what we're looking at, or both of them? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess we're revising, 15 right? 16 MR. ODOM: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's -- you may be 18 making a good point, Jon. I'm not sure. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The vehicle policy, is my 20 understanding. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be rare. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we just completed. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there were two of 2-25-08 27 1 them in there. We're only really looking at the first one. 2 Is that correct, Mr. Odom? 3 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MR. ODOM: And the second one back behind -- behind 6 the form to fill out is the other policy that we implemented 7 for ice storms and all. There was a question about people 8 being cut off or living in areas of not -- we implemented 9 this a year ago. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to end up -- at 11 the end of the day, we're going to have one policy and not 12 two; is that correct? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I would rather you put 14 this policy in this policy. 15 MR. ODOM: Into that one? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Incorporate them. Because this 17 one refers to a specific instance, to me, and it's confusing, 18 and this is a permanent policy. 19 MR. ODOM: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or maybe a separate policy. I 21 think it ought to go into one. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to end up with 23 one -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One policy. 25 MR. ODOM: Okay. Let me work on it, and we'll put 2-25-08 28 1 it together. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if you do that, the 3 line, "If you choose to be paid..." may want to take out that 4 name, and just put -- 5 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, what? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It refers to a prior Treasurer. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have the name of the 9 former Treasurer. 10 MR. ODOM: Do I? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would put "County 12 Treasurer" there, as opposed to a particular name. 13 MR. ODOM: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that policy needs to be 15 generic, not -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MR. ODOM: Could we generally accept what I have, 18 and then I come back with a new format? That's -- is that 19 appropriate? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that may be more appropriate 21 than adopting two different policies, I would think. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You do not want to adopt 23 two different ones. 24 MR. ODOM: So, you want me to come back with just 25 one? 2-25-08 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm talking about blending the two 2 of them together. 3 MR. ODOM: Well, I was just saying my format is 4 basically -- this is what I'm trying to -- trying to 5 implement. I can understand putting it in one policy. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney, you had a 7 comment? 8 MR. EMERSON: I do. I just want to emphasize to 9 the Court -- we discussed this some in the prior court 10 appearance, but if an employee is using a county vehicle for 11 personal use, it creates significant liability issues for the 12 County. And I know under Paragraph 3, it says should a 13 situation arise where it's imperative to use it for personal 14 use, and then it goes on to imply, "will be notified in 15 advance." Now, if some kind of emergency is coming up, 16 that's different than knowing you have to go to the doctor 17 and you're driving a county vehicle going to the doctor. I 18 just want to make sure the Court's aware of that again. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that basically is -- is 20 almost looking at that whole issue we have about use of 21 personal vehicles by county employees for county business. 22 So, I mean, it's that whole vehicle issue that we've kind of 23 resolved, but kind of never resolved. 24 MR. ODOM: Can I work with H.R.? And I'll come up 25 with something that -- and she can give me guidance, come up 2-25-08 30 1 with something that's acceptable to the Court? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine with me. I mean, I 3 think we need it; it's an important policy that we get this 4 done, and I think we need to be real careful as to what we do 5 with it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there are three 7 separate documents here, and I assume we're going to blend 8 all of them into one document; would that be correct? 9 MR. ODOM: Well, actually, there's two. This 10 vehicle policy, and then the policy we had for ice was 11 something that we did -- did over a year ago in January of 12 '07. You know, that was an internal thing that we did. And 13 then we came to y'all so we could have a place for them to 14 stay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The second one dealing with 18 emergency response -- 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and payroll and -- and that sort 21 of business, that's not limited to vehicles, is it? 22 MR. ODOM: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, it occurs to me we want 24 these things that are focused on vehicles in one policy, and 25 maybe things that aren't focused on vehicles -- 2-25-08 31 1 MR. ODOM: We'll take internally. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- somewhere else, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, and this 4 needs to go in job descriptions, is where that needs to go. 5 You need to get with Eva to get this into every employee's -- 6 that is subject to it, in their job description, so that 7 there's not a question that they're being told to do 8 something different than their job description says. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about the 10 emergency response document? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I think I agree with the 12 Judge; I think that's probably really not a vehicle policy 13 issue, but it is a job description issue. 14 MS. HYDE: They added that to those specific 15 personnel's job description as an amendment or addendum, 16 because they were having some difficulty with -- with some 17 folks that couldn't get to work. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think the way that 19 document -- I mean, I don't know what your -- what the job 20 descriptions in your office look like, but this needs to be 21 revised, because it has wrong names in it and the dates are 22 kind of specific. 23 MS. HYDE: It was probably done right after I got 24 here, when we had the big ice storm. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2-25-08 32 1 MR. ODOM: I'll get with Eva and -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Crystal clear, Leonard? 3 MR. ODOM: Oh, yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Clear as mud, right? 5 MR. ODOM: Clear as mud. We're working toward it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a 9:30 timed item, 7 which we're a bit past that now, so we'll take that up at 8 this time. Item 8, open bids for electrical, plumbing, HVAC, 9 and pest control. The first proposal that I have is from 10 Compton's of Kerrville, and it's electrical, plumbing, HVAC; 11 appears to be on all of those services. The next bid that I 12 have is from Terminix, dealing -- the local office here in 13 Kerrville -- with pest control. The next one I have is from 14 Hill Country Pest Control on pest control services. The next 15 one I have is from D.W. Electric, dealing with electrical, 16 plumbing, HVAC -- I wasn't aware that organization did 17 plumbing, but maybe they have that capability. None of those 18 services were excluded. The outside of the envelope says 19 "Proposal-electrical." So, is that it? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept all bids and 21 refer them to Maintenance Director for review and 22 recommendation. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 25 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 2-25-08 33 1 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 2 hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 7 to Item 6; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 8 the final revision of plat for Lots 5A and 5B in Grotto 9 Springs Ranch, Section I, and located in Precinct 3. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This revision will combine 11 two 25-acre tracts, making one lot of 50 acres. It will be 12 done under the alternate plat process. At this time, we ask 13 the Court to consider revision of plat for Lots 5A and 5B of 14 Grotto Springs Ranch I, Volume 7, Page 287, Precinct 3. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 20 motion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. This letter in 22 here from Mr. Voelkel to Truby, the question about being 23 approved without your signature, have y'all resolved that? 24 MR. ODOM: I think that that's been resolved on the 25 final. 2-25-08 34 1 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. 2 MR. ODOM: You had O.S.S.F. -- 3 MR. VOELKEL: They're on the plat, yes. 4 MR. ODOM: They're on the plat. But that's an 5 issue that I think that Mr. Letz is going to be talking 6 about. We had a direction one way, but let's don't beat the 7 horse to death. We'll wait. Did I answer your question? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? All in 10 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 15 to Item 7; consider, discuss, and accept Kerr County 16 Sheriff's Office 2007 Racial Profiling Report. Sheriff, do 17 you have any comments you'd like to make? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not unless there's any 20 questions. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for -- to 23 receive and accept the 2007 Racial Profiling Report. 24 Question or discussion on the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only comment I would 2-25-08 35 1 make, Judge, is this is a pretty good format, and perhaps we 2 can encourage our four constables to use this same format so 3 that the reports we get in from each of them are consistent 4 with this and we can understand what they're doing. I 5 understand from talking to the Sheriff that this software is 6 available to each of the constables through what is available 7 on the J.P.'s computer system, and they can access this 8 software and do that, so maybe the Court can encourage the 9 constables to get consistent with the Sheriff's report. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 11 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 17 to Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 18 appoint members to joint City/County committees to look at 19 issues related to library, health benefits, Road and Bridge, 20 EMS, broadband services, ETJ, dispatch, animal control, fire 21 services, and Reverse 911 services. I put this on the agenda 22 as the result of a joint City/County meeting that was held 23 here over a week ago, and the suggestion was made during that 24 meeting that -- that members be appointed to committees in 25 order to look at those various issues. So, ergo, the agenda 2-25-08 36 1 item. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I was bored over the 3 weekend, so I wrote out stuff. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Beginning to sound dangerous, isn't 5 he? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uh-oh, he's been sitting at 7 his computer. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sitting at my computer, and I 9 started thinking about this and the agenda. I've talked to 10 Mack; he and I worked quite a bit on this. Some of this got 11 us where we are, and I don't think it's going to be a 12 surprise to him, but maybe a little bit. I think we need to 13 move it a little bit further along on some of these things. 14 And, in a nutshell, I think we need to have -- we have been 15 talking about the airport, the library, and animal control 16 for probably the better part of 11 years, since I've been a 17 Commissioner, and I think it's time to put something -- to 18 put something on the table, and I'll just read it. 19 Proposal for Joint City/County Committee Related to 20 Library, Animal Control, and Airport. Committee to review 21 process to implement the following: City of Kerrville is to 22 become the sole entity for funding and operation of the 23 library. Kerr County to become responsible for operation and 24 funding of animal control throughout the county. City of 25 Kerrville and City of Ingram will need to repeal or modify 2-25-08 37 1 any ordinances related to animal control in favor of adopting 2 the county policy. And Kerr County to become the sole entity 3 responsible for funding and operation of the airport. Kerr 4 County will create an independent board to oversee and 5 operate the airport consistent with the vote of the citizens 6 of Kerr County in 1970. The committee will report back to 7 the Commissioners Court and City Council by May 12th and 13th 8 respectively with an outline on implementation, with the goal 9 of implementing same by 2008-2009 budget. I see that as one 10 committee. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question 12 right quick. If that were a motion, I would second it, by 13 the way. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be a motion you can 15 second pretty quick. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask my question 17 first, though. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When we're talking about -- 20 when we're talking about committees, are we -- and us 21 assigning someone to that committee, are we talking about a 22 member of this body, or we talking about going down to 23 Schreiner Bank -- or used to be Schreiner Bank, and finding 24 someone there, to appoint someone from the community? What 25 kind of committee are we talking about? 2-25-08 38 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it depends on -- 2 there's three or four different kind of groups -- of 3 committees listed. This first one, the way I see it, is 4 pretty much a Commissioners Court, City/County, whoever, you 5 know, to figure out if this is reasonable. They can each 6 work with their appropriate staffs a little bit and come back 7 with a report as to, "Yes, this can be done," or, "No, it 8 can't be done." The next committee, I think, is -- I'll just 9 read the proposal. The Joint City/County committee related 10 to Kerr County Road and Bridge Department and City of 11 Kerrville's Streets Department. Committee to review specific 12 areas where the two departments can work together by 13 interlocal agreement whereby Kerr County Road and Bridge 14 could assist with street construction, street reconstruction, 15 and street maintenance within the City of Kerrville. 16 Committee will report back to Commissioners Court and City 17 Council by May 12 and 13 respectively with an outline of 18 implementation and a goal of implementing trial program by 19 2008-2009. So, to me, that is a committee that the two 20 gentlemen that are probably going to be on it are sitting 21 next to each other at the back. I know they're already 22 meeting on this issue; Charlie Hastings, or whoever the City 23 Manager appoints from the City standpoint, and from our 24 standpoint, Len Odom. 25 And on the next page, committees related to health 2-25-08 39 1 benefits, dispatch, Reverse 911, and broadband services. 2 Basically, the same thing. Committees report back May 12 and 3 13 respectively with outline of potential joint collaboration 4 and recommendation of any budget implications for 2008-2009. 5 And the last committees will be committees related to fire, 6 EMS, law enforcement, and committees will report back to 7 Commissioners Court by May 12 and 13 respectively with an 8 outline of 2008-2009 budget, of potential collaboration and 9 recommendation of a future timetable for further review. 10 That last group, Buster, I think takes committee people. I 11 think we need a lot of input on fire and EMS, because I think 12 we start talking about level of service and things of that 13 nature. The one in between, the health benefits and 14 broadband services, dispatch, I think those are petty much 15 staff-driven, in my mind. That's just how I see them. I 16 mean, certainly, it's all open for discussion. I just wanted 17 to get it moving, and it just seemed to me that we are -- 18 we've been talking about these so long that if we don't have 19 specific timetables and -- and, you know, direction, we're 20 just -- we'll be exactly where we are today a year from now. 21 And I -- I think we just need to move forward. If we're 22 going to try to start transferring some of these operations 23 back and forth, let's do it or not do it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're absolutely 25 right, and setting timetables for doing the work and then 2-25-08 40 1 reporting back to both the City Council and Commissioners 2 Court I think are good suggestions. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you know, I do think we 4 need to fill in some names, I guess, in here, as to who the 5 people are. And -- and if -- you know, if the Court is 6 somewhat in agreement with the direction, you know, we can 7 use this document; I think Jody has a copy of it, so it can 8 be put in or modified as y'all see appropriate. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On your second-to-last 10 committee, where you put health benefits and dispatch in that 11 one -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not one committee; 13 that's a -- those are probably three different committees. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. I was thinking dispatch 15 ought to go with your last one, if you had that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put dispatch and Reverse 911 17 because those are kind of 911 functions, and I think -- I 18 think there's been a lot of work done on dispatch, and up to 19 now, it hasn't been -- you know, any appearance that it's 20 going to work real well right now, based on -- well, I think 21 Buster and I were on the committee last year that looked at 22 that along with Chief Young and you, Rusty. But the Reverse 23 911 part, which is related, I think that is very doable and 24 needs to be looked at. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And there's already, in that 2-25-08 41 1 one -- and I won't refer to it as "Reverse 911"; that's a 2 product name. But -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- that's a warning-type 5 system. I think you already have a representative in my 6 office and the police department and 911, and it wouldn't be 7 hard to add two more from Ingram and the fire department if 8 they want. That committee's -- you know, except for Ingram 9 Fire Department, has already met and seen some products, and 10 have already sent e-mails out since y'all's joint meeting 11 last week or week before. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and I got a copy of that 13 e-mail. The question is -- I didn't respond because it's not 14 myself -- for me to put myself on a committee or not put 15 myself on a committee. I think Commissioner Williams needs 16 to be on that committee. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Amerine's already 19 sketched out a scope of review which made pretty good sense 20 of what we had to look at with respect to this issue. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did I stir it up enough? So -- 23 MR. EMERSON: Just a brief comment. Your agenda 24 item doesn't allow you to appoint anybody to an airport 25 committee. 2-25-08 42 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't allow us to what? 2 MR. EMERSON: Airport's not listed. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe you and I need to be on the 4 same page when I'm doing the agenda items. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can blame that on the 6 Judge. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't even really pay much 8 attention. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is on mine, 'cause I 10 wrote it in. (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we use Bill's agenda? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can -- we can delete, I 13 guess, the airport from that, or it can be -- depends on -- I 14 mean, I don't know how -- the best way to approach it. To 15 me, it's -- I want to get this moving forward on the table 16 with some timetables. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Councilman Hamilton, your name has 18 been mentioned frequently. Do you have anything you want to 19 throw into the mix here? 20 MR. HAMILTON: No. I notice it's on tomorrow 21 night's City Council agenda, too. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I hope they didn't use my 23 agenda item and leave the airport out. (Laughter.) 24 MR. HAMILTON: No, I wrote a broader one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2-25-08 43 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I might add, Councilman, 2 having heard the discussion on animal control this morning, 3 would you like for us to reconsider it and let the City take 4 over animal control? Just kidding, Councilman. 5 MR. HAMILTON: A little early for humor for me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me throw something out here. 7 With -- with the airport thing being somewhat off the table, 8 possibly between now and coming back after our mid-morning 9 break -- we've got an addendum item where we're going to have 10 to take up an item at 11:30. As maybe reconsideration of 11 this particular agenda item, with maybe some specifics where 12 we work on some names in the meantime. We've got some 13 players here in the room; we've got our H.R. people, we've 14 got our Auditor, we've got the Sheriff, we've got the County 15 Attorney, we've got members of the Court. And I don't see 16 our I.T. guy here. We've got -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's at my office. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got Leonard here. I think 19 maybe we can come up with the players to get this thing 20 rolling after -- after our mid-morning break. What's your 21 thought there? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That'd be fine. I mean, I just 23 think that -- you know, and, I mean, I didn't really realize 24 the airport wasn't included on the list. I just saw the list 25 and assumed it was all of our joint things, but the airport 2-25-08 44 1 is pretty much -- there are two Commissioners appointed to be 2 liaisons to that, and until a formal action can be taken, 3 they can -- you know, they can be liaisons. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that acceptable to everybody, to 5 come back to this? Do we want to have some more discussion 6 about what we do have on the agenda item before we -- before 7 we move on? Okay, let's move on to Item 10, then, if we 8 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 9 giving notice to the City of Kerrville concerning problems 10 with the ETJ agreement for subdivisions. Commissioner Letz, 11 you asked that this item be placed on the agenda. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. This is a -- kind of a 13 follow-up to the comments I made at our joint meeting. There 14 are a couple of issues. One, I know of several instances 15 since we implemented our plan where the City of Kerrville 16 kind of handles platting in the ETJ where issues that have 17 come up because of -- of, I guess, if you look back to all of 18 the documents, there was nothing ever really addressing 19 street grade. Yet the County, you know, is not going to 20 accept a road that's over 12 percent, and that came up 21 recently and has caused the developer a fair amount of 22 heartburn, and rightfully so. So, there's that issue. And 23 the bottom line is, the County's the one that's getting stuck 24 with all these roads, and a lot of them are -- you know, are 25 going from the ETJ into the county, straddling that line, and 2-25-08 45 1 they still have to come to the County; we haven't helped 2 anything at all. 3 The part that I hadn't really thought about was 4 O.S.S.F. Anything in the ETJ that's using a septic system 5 still has to come through the County, so the developers are 6 still -- again, we haven't done anything to meet the 7 requirements -- or meet the goal of the legislation, which 8 was to -- kind of one-stop shopping. And it's created a 9 little bit of a problem, because the County's over the 10 Environmental Health Department, and the City's handling this 11 part, and there's no one entity that can really resolve some 12 of these, so they kind of get back and forth between the two, 13 and it's taken even a longer period of time. The final item 14 is that it appears to me -- and maybe I'm wrong on this, but 15 it appears to me that it's a whole lot easier for the County 16 to upgrade and modify our subdivision rules than for the City 17 because of their ordinance structure. The reason I'm 18 bringing this up is that in December, the County adopted 19 another whole set of subdivision rules and Regulations for 20 any lots 5 acres and less in size, and this -- and that's -- 21 it's a very significant bunch of changes if you're under 22 small lots as to what can be done, the number of dwellings on 23 that lot, a lot of other requirements. 24 And even if we don't have to mess with the other -- 25 the first two, the City has to now incorporate all that ETJ 2-25-08 46 1 rule, 'cause that's state law, 'cause we adopted that subject 2 to the Water Development Board, and we're basically 3 guaranteeing to the State that we are going to enforce those 4 stricter rules on these smaller lot sizes. So, you know, the 5 City is at the point of -- if we don't make that change here, 6 really, in my mind, the County should be the one over -- or 7 handling the ETJ. And if the City wants to have certain 8 areas where there's -- you know, I don't have a problem with 9 that. But it just seems to me it's a lot simpler and easier 10 for the developers if we handle it, and I just -- and I was 11 the one that negotiated the deal with the City, and it didn't 12 work right. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what in your mind 14 would be an example of an area where the City would make 15 decisions? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something that is adjoining the 17 city limits. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like a subdivision. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subdivision comes in that 20 adjoins the city limits, and -- and is an area that the -- 21 you know, I know they don't have an annexation plan; we've 22 been told they don't have an annexation plan, but if they 23 were to have one, an area that would be, you know, in the 24 next five years, annexed, something in that area. 'Cause, I 25 mean, there's areas like that. And I think there's one -- I 2-25-08 47 1 could be mistaken; maybe it's all in the city limits, but out 2 there up past Coronado, isn't that in the ETJ? It's -- Sandy 3 Phillips is doing it. That's one I think the City should be 4 involved with, because it's adjoining the city limits. It's 5 kind of more of a city subdivision than some of these others. 6 And I don't know how we resolve that, 'cause I think we have 7 some legal requirements that we have to be real clear to the 8 public as to who handles what areas. But -- I think we need 9 to probably work through that, but I think we've probably 10 made it worse rather than better so far, so maybe we ought to 11 go the other direction and try to undo what we did, and 12 hopefully go from there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If my memory serves me, the 14 law allows that you can -- you could either go strictly 15 with -- the City and County could go strictly with the city 16 rules, or City and County could go strictly with the county 17 rules, or a blend of the two. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or we could divide -- I think 19 it's pretty -- as long as it's clear to the public that in 20 the ETJ, developers only have to deal with one entity. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with that, and 22 definitely not paying fees at both places. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, anyway -- so, the 24 purpose of the agenda item is not to really give notice of 25 canceling the agreement. The notice is that we need to go 2-25-08 48 1 back to the agreement and look at it. And in my mind, I 2 think that, you know, it needs to be a totally new direction, 3 but I think we just need to start that process going again. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what action are you 6 looking for today? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you just did it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To give notice to the City. 10 I'll make a motion that we give notice to City of Kerrville 11 concerning our current agreement within the ETJ, that we 12 would like to modify same. And, I guess we should appoint 13 myself and -- Commissioner Baldwin? We did it last time and 14 did such a good job. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will represent Commissioners 17 Court with appropriate County staff to meet with the City to 18 resolve this issue. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion? 21 (Commissioner Letz nodded.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 23 as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2-25-08 49 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. That 4 brings us to Item 11; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 5 action on request from Hill Country Council on Alcohol and 6 Drug Abuse, Inc., to have the County Judge sign a memorandum 7 of understanding between Kerr County Court and Hill Country 8 Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse for funding with the 9 Department of State Health Services. Ms. Stevens? Thank you 10 for being here. I apologize for the somewhat late notice to 11 you, but I guess that's better than no notice at all. 12 MS. STEVENS: I'm just really honored that I've 13 been invited here to share with you this request from the 14 Department of State Health Services. We lost around $350,000 15 in 2004. We were in area schools in Bandera, Gillespie, 16 Kendall, Kerr, and Medina, providing a prevention program 17 called Botvin's Life Skills Training, and so it's got 20 18 years of scientific research on it. It's very, very helpful 19 to our students and our schools, and we're applying again 20 this year, and the MOU is just basically asking you to 21 support our efforts. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The memorandum of understanding 23 indicates that the County Court would agree to refer adults 24 and youth for support services, follow-up services, substance 25 abuse evaluations, outpatient treatment programs, educational 2-25-08 50 1 programs, and offender education programs. Is that occurring 2 at the present time? 3 MS. STEVENS: Yes, sir, for the past 16 years. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. And, in return, you 5 would agree to provide those services to the county courts; 6 is that correct? Which also -- 7 MS. STEVENS: Which we're doing. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you've been doing for the past 16 9 years. 10 MS. STEVENS: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm -- have you seen a copy 12 of the MOU? 13 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. EMERSON: And my only comment is just to make 16 sure that the Court understands, this is not an exclusive 17 agreement. 18 MS. STEVENS: Right. 19 MR. EMERSON: 'Cause we use multiple services from 20 multiple agencies. 21 MS. STEVENS: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is the adult 24 outpatient treatment program. 25 MS. STEVENS: Mm-hmm. 2-25-08 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Where is that? 2 MS. STEVENS: At our facility. We've just built a 3 5,000-foot square building, and we have ample classrooms, and 4 we do outpatient three nights a week. We do individual 5 sessions with these folks, too. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no -- it's not like 7 a detox unit? 8 MS. STEVENS: No, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's beyond detox? 10 MS. STEVENS: Oh, it's -- the beauty of this one 11 is -- is that they can maintain their family situations and 12 their jobs and just come for treatment in the evenings, and 13 throughout the day. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No overnight? 15 MS. STEVENS: We don't do sleep-overs, no. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think once they closed the 17 substance abuse unit at Kerrville State Hospital, I'm not 18 aware of an inpatient facility that's publicly funded and 19 operated. 20 MS. STEVENS: Inpatient, we just have Serenity 21 Foundation of Fredericksburg, La Hacienda, Starlite out at 22 Center Point. We're outpatient, and that is totally 23 different than inpatient. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's a total -- 2-25-08 52 1 that's a rotten shame, but that's life. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Following up the County 3 Attorney's suggestion, would it be appropriate to change 4 the -- on the first sentence, that we are entering -- second 5 -- yeah, second line of the first sentence, entering into a 6 "nonexclusive" agreement, as opposed to entering into this 7 agreement? 8 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion, Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it is. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second as 13 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 19 Ms. Stevens. 20 MS. STEVENS: Thank you very much. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. The remaining items 22 that we have on the regular agenda that are not timed items 23 are -- are executive session items. That being the case, so 24 that the audience will know what's happening, we'll go ahead 25 and consider those two executive session items, and we will 2-25-08 53 1 resume at quarter to 11:00 in public and open session. So, 2 at this time, we will go out of public or open session to go 3 into open or closed session to consider items on the 4 executive session agenda. 5 (The open session was closed at 10:00 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 6 is contained in a separate document.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We are back in open or public 9 session at 10:15, and we'll be -- we will be in recess until 10 10:45. 11 (Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:47 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order from 14 our mid-morning recess. And, firstly, I will go to -- ask if 15 there's any member of the Court that has anything to offer 16 with respect to the matters or items considered in open or 17 executive -- closed or executive session. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do, on Item 12. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What were you doing, Bill? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. I'll do the 22 other one. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Item 12. I want to move 24 that we -- the Commissioners Court authorize Human Resources 25 Department to post in-house for the open position of the 2-25-08 54 1 department head for the Court Compliance Department. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 5 Question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the 6 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any other 11 action offered with respect to items discussed in executive 12 or closed session? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, Judge. The Court 14 previously adopted a court order authorizing an improvement 15 in salary and grade for Nona Tucker, and I think there was an 16 error in the previous court order, and I would move that we 17 amend that court order to make the step and grade for 18 Ms. Tucker to be 17-10, as opposed to 17-9. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it called for a change in 20 job description also. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it did, Judge. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But otherwise to include that? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2-25-08 55 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 2 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 3 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'd like to ask you 9 if we could return to -- before we move on, return to 1.9. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that -- had you not 11 said that, I was going to ask if we're ready to go back 12 there. So, let's go back to Item 1.9, which we left open; 13 that is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 14 appoint members to joint City/County -- joint County/City 15 committees to look at issues related to library, health 16 benefits, Road and Bridge, EMS, broadband services, ETJ, 17 dispatch, animal control, fire services, and Reverse 911. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess my whole point 19 would be to figure out -- help us figure out a way to 20 facilitate this issue, and using your words, Judge, kick the 21 can down the road a little bit. And one way to do that, 22 perhaps, would be if the Court adopted -- posted for adoption 23 a policy on these issues as defined in the document that 24 Commissioner Letz prepared and gave to the Court. Once we 25 establish -- post that for adoption and adopt the policy 2-25-08 56 1 along those lines, then we can -- then we have made the 2 statement that we're in favor the what the Commissioner is 3 saying, and that can be moved on down to City Council pretty 4 quickly. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- so what we're doing 6 is -- well, I think I know what you're saying, but the -- we 7 can take action on the committees, but in addition to that, 8 we can post a special meeting for later this week to adopt a 9 policy on the first segment of this, which is where we're 10 saying related to the library and animal control, and then we 11 can add to that special posting the airport as a policy 12 issue. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I'm trying to 14 get out on the table. But I would ask the question, would 15 it -- can we move these others, or can we just -- or should 16 we just include them all as a policy and try to schedule a 17 meeting -- post it so that it can be scheduled for action, 18 say, Wednesday afternoon or something of that nature? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Couldn't do it by Wednesday 20 afternoon and get 72 hours, I don't think. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thursday afternoon, then. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thursday afternoon at the earliest. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thursday, okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think we could -- all 25 of them below the first segment, I think we can probably go 2-25-08 57 1 ahead and just deal with those today, if we can figure out 2 who the people are. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Then we'll limit the 4 -- well, the others -- don't the others need to be -- no, I 5 guess not. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're more all -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only policy one is the 8 one that deals with the library and -- the library and animal 9 control. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think what would probably 11 make sense there is, then, on the first one, is to do a 12 policy at our -- at a special meeting. But I think you would 13 change the dates that that policy would just be -- and then 14 you have to implement that policy; that would be by that May 15 12th date. Basically, we're saying, yes, we want to make 16 that change. We want to do the library, the airport, and the 17 -- which we can't talk about, and the Animal Control, and 18 then -- as to how to implement that, and that'll force City 19 Council to vote on that policy. And if that policy is there, 20 they can figure out whether the implementation is reasonable 21 or not. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay with me. Do you see 23 any nods of the head -- negative nods of the head from -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Not so far. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not so far. Then I 2-25-08 58 1 would -- I would move that -- this is probably one of two 2 motions that'll end up out of Agenda Item 1.9. I would move 3 that we post a special Commissioners Court meeting for 4 Thursday -- what's a good time for everybody? 1 o'clock? 5 2 o'clock? 3 o'clock? Judge, what's your schedule? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have juveniles starting at 1:30 7 typically, so if you could start it -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 11 o'clock? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got a meeting at 11:00. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to be hard-pressed to 11 make an 11 o'clock posting. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3:00? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Possibly -- well, I don't know how 14 long juvies will be, but I can suspend the juvies and we 15 could do it at 3:00, as far as that goes. 3 p.m. Thursday? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Schedule a special 17 Commissioners Court meeting for 3 p.m. Thursday, the 28th of 18 February, 3 p.m., for the purpose of adopting a policy 19 related to library, animal control, and airport. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And possible members of the Court 21 and/or staff to serve on that committee? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I had 23 that in mind, yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2-25-08 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 2 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now, step 8 two, Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have step two, but 10 the guy immediately to your left probably does. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm going to give that to him, 12 then. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the rest of it's fill 14 in the names for the committees on the rest of the -- Road 15 and Bridge committee, which to me would be Len Odom. And, 16 Judge, I know you've been very involved with that. If you -- 17 and I don't think we need to make it huge. That's who I see 18 coming from the county side, Len and the Judge. And probably 19 Rex would be ex-officio of all of these, just from the 20 standpoint there's going to be some legal issues along the 21 way. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's always so glad to help. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can tell it's track 24 season; look at that red nose. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And then on the committees -- the 2-25-08 60 1 health benefits, to me it's Eva Hyde, who's I think already 2 met with the City; it's already ongoing. And, Judge, I think 3 you've been involved with that as well. And if anyone else 4 wants to jump in on these, these are just names that I 5 thought of. The -- it's not Reverse 911, but we know what 6 we're talking about. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Warning system. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The warning system. I think 9 Commissioner Williams is kind of the lead on that, and 10 then -- I don't know who else needs to be on that. I mean, 11 it's kind of already working, it looked like, Rusty. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that was one vendor. 13 They wanted to look at other ones, but what I would suggest 14 is either me or my designee. I just want to -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be Sheriff or your 16 designee. Chief of Police has already indicated he has a 17 designee. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we don't deal with those 19 people. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we need Mr. Amerine 21 involved. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Mr. Amerine, me or my 24 designee, and probably the Ingram Marshal or his designee, 25 'cause it will have some effect with them. And then the 2-25-08 61 1 chief -- Police Chief and fire department, EMS, and their 2 designees. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the Commissioner 5 from the head of the river? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: From the head of the river? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, from up -- upper part 8 of the river. 'Cause they're -- floods is the big deal. I 9 mean, y'all can call this stuff anything you want to call it, 10 but floods -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Floods are a big deal with the 12 county, and all we're doing is looking at vendors that would 13 do both. I don't -- it doesn't bother me if two 14 Commissioners are on it. I just don't -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's fine. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- don't want too much. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Essentially -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it wouldn't be a bad idea 19 to have one person that could represent all the volunteer 20 fire departments. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with that. 22 VFD and Commissioners. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say that should be 24 Ray Lynch, probably. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem with that. 2-25-08 62 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ray Lynch. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ray Lynch, Ingram. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm, and Commissioner 4. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because once you start 8 putting this thing into place, you're going to need his 9 assistance getting it done out there, I can tell you that 10 right now. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's -- you really 12 don't. It's really simple, and the main two players that are 13 going to be having to pay for it is going to be the City and 14 the County. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Basically, that's correct. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's, you know, what we went 17 through before, so that's your -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What this committee's going 19 to tackle has already been spec'd out in terms of review by 20 Mr. Amerine. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So it shouldn't be that 23 difficult. My question is, this was styled to do -- to do 24 both dispatch -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2-25-08 63 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I assume that means joint 2 dispatch? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think joint dispatch needs to 4 get moved to that fire, EMS, law enforcement group. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless y'all are after 6 something different, that's already been discussed and gone 7 through, and I think that's been answered, unless y'all are 8 wanting to reopen that and bring it back up. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I want to reopen it and 10 bring it back up. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it goes back to this 13 second fire, EMS, law enforcement, and I think the -- I think 14 it kind of goes in with that. And the idea there is to -- is 15 there any benefit to doing anything different than we're 16 doing right now? That's kind of how -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. As far as law 18 enforcement issues, I mean, to me, joint dispatch and warning 19 system are the two issues we have. I don't know how much 20 else you -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some on City Council think 22 there should be -- maybe the Kerrville Police Department 23 should be greatly reduced and the Sheriff's Department 24 increased. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thanks. 2-25-08 64 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's what I'm saying; 2 they're talking big, thinking out of the box, big picture. 3 There are -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They want to -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- two Councilman that are 6 broad thinkers at the moment. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's go back to that joint 8 City/County meeting and what Mr. Hamilton was speaking about. 9 Bringing this information back to the two governing bodies so 10 everybody knows what's good, bad, and indifferent. I tried 11 to make the point that day about -- about joint dispatch; 12 that while we may be familiar -- and I am, and I know you 13 are -- with what took place in the meetings that the Sheriff 14 was involved in, and I assume that the Chief of Police or 15 whomever he designated is, I don't know that the entire Court 16 knows all the ins and outs. And I bet you the City Council 17 does not know all the ins and outs or the reasons why it hit 18 a wall. I think we ought to -- that ought to be public, in 19 the public as to why it hit the wall. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other thing is, on 22 this topic, is there -- is it worth pursuing any kind of 23 additional look at how law enforcement's done in the county 24 and the city? I mean, fire and EMS, is there any reason to 25 look at -- you know, are we doing -- are we pretty happy 2-25-08 65 1 where we are, or should we look at doing something different? 2 And I'm pretty happy, personally, but, you know, others may 3 not be. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine. Whatever y'all 5 suggest. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see fire and EMS is 7 any change at all. I mean, I don't believe -- I don't 8 believe the City will -- will hit home very well with us 9 funding half of the police -- or the fire stations and the 10 staffs inside the city limits of Kerrville. Those kinds of 11 things to start somehow reappropriating or redividing the 12 amount of tax money that's brought in. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it doesn't make sense. 14 It's a level of service. When you get to those topics, to 15 me, it's a whole different level of service, and it's -- that 16 means it's a whole different funding. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- you know -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, the old argument 20 about the double taxation issue in the city -- which I'm 21 tired of hearing about, but I guess as soon as these folks 22 get tired of talking about it, there will be somebody new 23 come in and start it over. Number one, they really need to 24 go talk to Representative Hilderbran about that issue. But, 25 number two, speaking about unfair, you know, you have the -- 2-25-08 66 1 the EMS contract is an example. You have people out in the 2 county that are paying for that that will never use it, not 3 come anywhere near ever using it. So, to me, if you really 4 want to start talking fair and being fair to one another, 5 then you have to -- as far as the EMS is concerned, I think 6 you have to go to the user -- user fee. If you don't use it, 7 you don't pay it. If you use it, you pay, and you pay big 8 probably. But -- so, you know, why don't we -- we 9 continually talk about this double taxation thing, and yes, 10 it's a reality, and I understand that. But it's not a damn 11 thing we can do about it, so to be asked that we pay three 12 times as much as the city because -- taxpayers out in the 13 county pay three times as much as the city taxpayers, is 14 unfair. But to fix some of that, I think, is the -- is the 15 user fee with the EMS program. That just -- am I putting you 16 to sleep, or are you trying to figure out what I'm saying? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Both. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Well, that's where 19 I'm at on the thing. I just don't want to hear -- I'd rather 20 not hear about all that nonsense any more. It is nonsense, 21 and there's nothing -- if there was something that we could 22 do about it, hell, let's get it out there on the table and 23 talk about it and do something about it. But there's nothing 24 we can do about it. We don't set up the taxing structure in 25 counties. 2-25-08 67 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The short answer is, Commissioner, 2 that we don't have the authority to exempt anybody from -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from the operation of the ad 5 valorem taxes that are specified by state law. Your -- your 6 observation about the fair way to do this -- for example, 7 emergency services; create one emergency services district 8 that has the -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- authority to administer and to 11 fund, and make it concurrent with the county boundaries, 12 and -- and then let it happen. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the answer. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect the distribution of those 15 services would be somewhat different than they are presently 16 if -- if that were done. With the ESD being county-wide, or 17 near county-wide, having the authority to -- to specify where 18 those services should be based from, as opposed to where 19 they're currently based from, there may be some difference 20 there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I know about 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then, going back up here, 24 health benefits will be Judge and Ms. Hyde. Broadband 25 services is, I presume, John Trolinger. I'm not sure what 2-25-08 68 1 broadband services is; I put him down for that. Reverse 911, 2 whatever that thing's called, is all those people we named. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's name those again. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill Williams, Rusty, Amerine, 5 Ingram Marshal, Ray Lynch, and Bruce Oehler, and whoever the 6 City wants. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That's a big one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the roads is Len Odom 9 and the Judge. And then on the -- that first block, we'll 10 handle that as a new posting for a slightly different action 11 item. And that -- and out of that posting will also be 12 whoever's responsible to help facilitate that happening by 13 this year's budget. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And style it accordingly. 15 Adopt a policy and make an assignment so we don't get locked 16 out of doing that. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Law enforcement, who are you 18 going to put on that? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the law enforcement, fire 20 EMS, Commissioner Baldwin -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I figured that you need 22 somebody big on there to referee between you and the Police 23 Chief. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and Rusty, from our 25 standpoint. 2-25-08 69 1 JUDGE TINLEY: First Responder rep. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need a First 3 Responder rep, and we need a volunteer fire department on 4 there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't First Responder -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you something. 8 Did you say volunteer fire department or First Responder? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Both. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, one of each. Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But wouldn't First Responder be 13 the City? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you're looking at -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not necessarily. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. So, we need to come 17 up with those individuals that want to serve on that. Ray -- 18 to my mind, Ray can do that one too, but he may not want to. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, as long as they have 20 evening meetings. Ray's working for City of Ingram now. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, on the last one, 22 Commissioner, Commissioner Baldwin is going to take fire, 23 EMS, law enforcement, and joint dispatch. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2-25-08 70 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Way to go, Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll help with you that if you 5 want me to help you with that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's going to be pretty much 7 open and closed. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's going to be pretty 9 short. I think they're kind of a -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you wanting Commissioner Letz 11 there? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Additional muscle? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I got Rusty. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's the guy with the 17 left-handed gun. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if -- I'll make a 19 motion that we approve the assignments as mentioned. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 22 indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- part of that 24 will be to fill in the names and get this along with the 25 posting from -- of the other motion to the City Council 2-25-08 71 1 members today. 2 MS. GRINSTEAD: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So they can have it for 4 tomorrow. I think they'll understand the gist of where we 5 are. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So they know what we're 7 doing. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Piece of cake, right, Ms. Grinstead? 9 MS. HYDE: And you want us to bring back stuff by 10 the 12th of May? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: (Nodded.) And the reason I 12 chose that date is, if we're going to do it this year, we 13 pretty much have to start -- we have to know by then. And if 14 it's not -- you know, it may come back and they say, "Yes, we 15 can do something, but it ain't going to happen this year; we 16 need more time." But if we're going to do it -- anything 17 this year, it's got to be -- pretty much, that's the 18 deadline. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is ample time to get it 20 done, too. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be able to. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or comments on the 23 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2-25-08 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, gentlemen, I 4 think that pretty well takes care of the agenda, with the 5 exception of our 11:30 timed item. Why don't we go to 6 Section 4 of the agenda, payment of the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 10 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 11 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 16 any budget amendments? 17 MS. HARGIS: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 19 MS. HARGIS: No. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 21 reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the 22 Peace, Precinct 1; District Clerk; Justice of the Peace, 23 Precinct 2; Constable, Precinct 2; and Justice of the Peace, 24 Precinct 4. Do I hear a motion that those reports be 25 approved as presented? 2-25-08 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 4 those reports as designated and presented. Question or 5 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. We'll move to 11 Section 5, reports from Commissioners, liaison/committee 12 assignments. Commissioner Baldwin, do you got anything for 13 us? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I've been hanging 15 out with the Historical Commission, and kind of an 16 interesting -- interesting bunch. It's the first time I've 17 ever been invited. I've been a liaison for 75, 80 years, and 18 first time I've ever been invited, and I enjoyed it very 19 much. And they -- the new regime over there seems to have 20 some really fun and exciting things on their minds, and 21 they're going to start -- we'll start hearing about them. 22 And we've -- actually, we've already heard about some of it, 23 but there's some exiting stuff going on, and just wanted to 24 let you know that I'm hanging out with these guys. They're 25 fun. 2-25-08 74 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there a time limit on the 2 amount of time that you meet with those guys? Do you have a 3 set time to meet, and it's going to be over -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- an hour later, or is it 6 going to be three or four hours later from the time the 7 meeting starts? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you talking about me 9 particularly? I walk in and sit down; when I get tired, I 10 get up and leave. Simple as that. Just like I do this one. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, one thing, Judge. I 13 noticed in my box was a memorandum that's being circulated to 14 the Court -- you initiated it be circulated -- from the 15 Community Council of South Texas, and it made it through 16 Commissioner Baldwin and his comments. It has got lodged in 17 my box, and I think it's appropriate that I tell the Court 18 exactly what's going on with that so we don't get ourselves 19 all bollixed up. AACOG authorized a special investigation of 20 Community Council of South Texas, and the former Executive 21 Director of longstanding, Mr. Notzon, was the one chosen to 22 do this. He presented his draft report to the management 23 committee, which met at 7:30 this past Tuesday morning, just 24 prior to the two-day retreat of AACOG for long-term planning, 25 and it's really a very disturbing overview of community 2-25-08 75 1 services. I won't bore with you all the details, but I'll 2 give you some highlights. 3 Executive committee -- this says their executive 4 committee met on Friday, February 8th, issued a finding on 5 the controller that he had knowingly provided a financial 6 report to the board in January without having a 111,000 7 past-due bill recorded. That's for openers. The food 8 program, cost of consumables are exceeding the budget. The 9 cost for a meal is exceeding the reimbursement rate. There 10 was a past year deficit of a hundred -- almost $155,000, 11 based on this financial report. In addition to that, there 12 are no savings that are going on with respect to that 13 program. Instead of trying to operate the food program out 14 of one kitchen, they're operating out of five separate 15 kitchens, five separate staffs, five separate purchasing 16 agreements, and there are -- there's no synergy, no ability 17 to curb or control cost. 18 Another thing, the Community Services Block Grant 19 that we're -- that we're being asked to consider and so 20 forth, there was a -- that particular program is in severe 21 trouble. It's a reimbursement program. The problem is, on a 22 cost reimbursable basis, the current fiscal needs of the 23 agency will not allow them to expend any money which they do 24 not have, and they have a carry-over of about 114,000, and 25 there's also some deficit problems with that. Community 2-25-08 76 1 Health Services Program, that program has $155,000 in prior 2 year debt, and 22,000 in current debt. All of which is to 3 say that -- there's more things in this report. All of which 4 is to say that this report, when it's finalized, will come 5 back day after tomorrow to AACOG, and the issue is whether or 6 not AACOG -- they've been petitioned to take over this 7 program, and the sense of the management committee is that we 8 might consider taking over the program for the future, but 9 we're not going to pick up their baggage, okay? But I just 10 bring this to the Court so that we know what we're getting 11 into if we get into bed with this group as it is currently 12 boarded and operated. End of report. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think when this 14 thing first came to light -- oh, about -- I think in December 15 actually is when -- when things came in contact with the fan 16 blades, as they say -- there was almost $80,000 in credit 17 card debt. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That had been accumulated, among 20 other things. And they were on a -- for -- on their 21 programs, they were on a reimbursement basis. They could 22 only get reimbursed by Department of State Health Services 23 after they expended the funds and provided evidence of 24 expenditure. They're in a pretty deep hole to climb out of 25 right now. 2-25-08 77 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They really are. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And I had a discussion with 3 Mr. Notzon, and he was pretty astounded by some of his 4 discussions with the financial people and their rather 5 cavalier attitude about not disclosing some of the 6 significant debt to the board when they were having their 7 meetings. And -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are other issues. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sale of vehicles to an 11 employee after they were sent to the buddy's garage for 12 repair. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, that's -- I think it 14 was a Mr. Ramirez was the -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ramirez. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- was the Executive 17 Director of this thing for 20 years -- more than 20 years. 18 He was removed within the last year or so. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: He resigned under pressure at that 20 meeting in December -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that Judge Danny Sheel from Comal 23 County asked me to attend. That was really my first notice 24 of that -- of that organization. Had come to find out that 25 outfit had provided, I think, some Planned Parenting services 2-25-08 78 1 to Kerr County two or three years prior to that time, but 2 they hadn't provided any services of any kind to Kerr County 3 for a period of several years. And Judge Scheel was of the 4 impression that -- and the basis for his requesting me to 5 attend was, lacking a specific appointment by this Court of a 6 Kerr County representative, that by default, that whoever sat 7 as County Judge of this county was on the board. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And he asked me to attend in that 10 respect. And -- and I was advised by the staff of the 11 Community Council of South Central Texas that, no, Kerr 12 County was represented by another board member, and that I 13 was welcome to observe, but could not otherwise participate. 14 That was the meeting at which Ramirez resigned under 15 pressure, and there was a call for impropriety. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyhow, they were $300,000 17 in debt, and we need to be very careful. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So my thoughts that I wrote 19 down about us not having the representation that Comal County 20 does is just kind of a silly little thing, isn't it? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd say let's forget it for 22 now. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't even want to know who they 25 are, much less what they are. 2-25-08 79 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to join them. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Me either. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything, Commissioner 4 Letz? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I'll probably put it on 6 our next agenda or the one after that. Nothing critical, but 7 I think we need to get to it, is follow-up of the street 8 annexation issue or area annexation issue that we would like 9 to give to City of Kerrville. I have a few small areas in my 10 precinct that I think the City should, you know, look at 11 annexation, and I -- and I think each of us have to look at 12 our precincts and see what areas -- I would suspect that 13 Commissioners for Precincts 1 and 2 both have some areas, and 14 probably south of the river, that may fall in that category. 15 I don't know if Commissioner Oehler does out west or not. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe one. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, not a huge -- I 18 don't want to just try to dump a lot of stuff on the City, 19 but a few areas that I -- that I really think should be in 20 the city limits. So, I'll probably put that on our next 21 agenda so we can all be thinking about that. And then at the 22 -- at our next meeting, I'll put it on the agenda for a 23 workshop related to the O.S.S.F. and platting issues, and Rex 24 hopefully can attend that as well, because it's -- it's 25 getting more defined by the Attorney General every day, it 2-25-08 80 1 seems, as to what has to go through that office, and then how 2 we handle final plats and some of that stuff. I think we 3 need to get all that ironed out and probably go over some of 4 our new rules, and we'll invite the -- primarily the 5 surveyors to attend that meeting as well. That's all I have. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you probably saw the 7 article in the paper about Animal Control chasing Mouflon 8 sheep in the parking lot across the river. There was -- I 9 think those were the last two that there were to catch. 10 Janie and her department did it, rather than hire somebody to 11 do the trapping of these animals that were just turned out by 12 somebody who left town. There -- I think there was about 24 13 head of them. And Mouflon sheep, some of them might be real 14 pure-blood, but they're still pretty wild. And they managed 15 to set up a trap south of town, and they caught all but -- 16 they finally got those two. But -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not an easy job. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not an easy job. 19 They're hard to catch. And they did -- they took care of 20 that. And the news media drove up taking those pictures that 21 you saw of those sheep right at the very moment when they 22 didn't need anybody there, and they didn't get one. They did 23 get one, but the other one got away; they had to get it 24 later. But news media drove up taking pictures and spooked 25 them, so that was just before they took off, the picture in 2-25-08 81 1 the paper. The Ag Barn, I took Tim out last week and we 2 looked at that space where he'd like to have a shop -- needs 3 a shop, in the same pole barn there where they authorized 4 space for the Fair Association. He has since made a couple 5 of drawings. I put them in y'all's boxes for you to look at, 6 see what you think about it. 7 I also got a complaint from one of the county 8 elected officials that had a meeting at the Ag Barn, that 9 they had some cars broken into. It's really poor lighting 10 out in front of that thing, and we need to get some lighting 11 and stuff done as well. I've got Tim kind of looking into 12 that a little bit. It's not too bad in areas, but up 13 especially in front, it's probably the worst it is anywhere 14 in the parking lot. And we -- we have some poles and things 15 along the east side that we could put some different type 16 lights on, I believe, and do a better job of lighting up that 17 area. Part of what -- you know, we talk about some of that 18 in this workshop session about the Ag Barn, but that -- that 19 one and Environmental Health has been issuing some citations 20 and things, and people that haven't been complying, they've 21 been sending out some letters and trying to get them to do 22 the final thing to get their -- as usual, their permit to 23 operate. I guess that's about all. 24 I don't -- you know, Janie and them are doing a 25 good job out there. They've had a little controversy with a 2-25-08 82 1 volunteer this last week, but I think that's going to get 2 resolved. So, if there's some bad press or something, it's a 3 mad volunteer who's kind of dabbling into areas that they're 4 not supposed to be dabbling into, and hopefully that won't -- 5 won't come to light. But they will do what they're supposed 6 to do, and not get involved in policy and politics and 7 everything else. That's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I noted with some interest a 9 copy of an article, apparently out of Corpus Christi 10 Caller-Times, from the County Attorney dealing with 11 generalities in postings. It occurred to me that the 12 discussion that we just had, as opposed to -- we're talking 13 about liaison assignments, which, of course, are specified as 14 a matter of public record, and whether or not that may not be 15 specific enough. Because, knowing that Buster deals with 16 certain areas, Commissioner Williams with others, and so 17 forth, I don't think we've got a definitive answer to that 18 question, and it may take a while to sort it out. I'm not 19 sure what the custom and practice is across the state. On 20 information items, as opposed to action items, certainly, I 21 can see with regard to action items that you want to have 22 specificity when it comes to dealing with the public's 23 business, so they have a real good handle, by looking at the 24 agenda, as to what it is you're going to do or not do or 25 think about doing. 2-25-08 83 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: When it comes to talking about items 3 of general discussion, I'm -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Information. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- sometimes I wonder if the tail's 6 not starting to wag the dog. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that, it seems to me 8 that -- I mean, because we try to limit our discussion to 9 liaison positions and just give a report, I think that we're 10 in compliance, to me. But, you know -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's my thinking, that since 12 it refers to the liaison or committee assignments, that in 13 and of itself focuses on what the discussion is going to be 14 about. And if we've got to be more specific than that, it's 15 almost as though we're going to have to do specific agenda 16 items on every one of them. 17 MR. EMERSON: Just -- I passed that article along 18 because I thought it was of great interest to the Court. I 19 have a couple inquiries out to find out how much more 20 specific we need to be, if at all, and I've not received a 21 response back yet. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. EMERSON: But in the interest of being 24 conservative, I thought it was better to disseminate the 25 information. 2-25-08 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm -- I'm not aware of any concerns 2 or complaints that have been made by the -- by the public or 3 the media or anybody else about lack of proper notice when it 4 comes to any of the items that we have posted. Occasionally 5 there's a question, and sometimes, you know, the wording's 6 not as clear as it needs to be, and certainly we -- there are 7 times, just like today, where the agenda item was not styled 8 correctly and we have to bring it back and do an additional 9 consideration. But, certainly, if there's anyone that's 10 confused or doesn't feel like it's adequate, you know, we'd 11 be glad to hear about it. I'm -- that's why we're here, is 12 to serve these folks. 13 MR. EMERSON: I'm not aware of any complaints 14 either, but if the Attorney General is choosing to tighten 15 their interpretation, which is kind of what the article 16 implies, I would prefer to be on the front side instead of 17 the back. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be curious to know what 21 Jim -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Allison. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Allison thinks about it. 24 Do you ever communicate with his office? 25 (Mr. Emerson shook his head negatively.) 2-25-08 85 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you ever wanted to? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you ever tried to? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can put you right in 4 there. (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you expect to get an 6 answer from him? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I never have gotten 8 an answer from the guy, but he's the state lawyer. I mean -- 9 I mean for commissioners courts. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think County Attorney has 12 another local government-recognized expert on the payroll, so 13 to speak, that -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- he has quick assess to, just by 16 picking up the phone and bouncing some things off of, and 17 that's always good to have. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, he has an employee 19 down there that's kind of like that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think she's pretty sharp. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Looks like we're at 11:30 23 now, so we'll take up the 11:30 agenda item, and that is to 24 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding an 25 order to authorize the issuance of tax notes. This is in 2-25-08 86 1 connection -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh, look at that. 3 MR. HENDERSON: It's 11:30. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Imagine him just appearing 5 at 11:30. Look at that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You obviously -- you've got a smile 7 on your face; you didn't hear the discussion immediately 8 preceding your walk through the door. 9 MR. HENDERSON: It says -- with all due respect, 10 Commissioner Baldwin -- I assume it was you -- the clock says 11 11:28. I was told to be here at 11:30. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did I say anything bad about 13 this guy? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not yet. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Not yet. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not yet. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Good morning. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: My reading of that clock from here, 20 Mr. Henderson, it says 11:30. 21 MR. HENDERSON: I defer to you, Your Honor. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's where we are. 23 MR. HENDERSON: I appreciate the opportunity to be 24 present before the Court. For the record, my name is Robert 25 Henderson. I'm the managing director with RBC Capital 2-25-08 87 1 Markets, and we have the honor and privilege of being the 2 County's financial adviser. As I was directed by the 3 Commissioners Court the last time I personally presented 4 here, I have been working under the direction of Ms. Hargis 5 on preparing a tax note in the amount of $1,780,000. A 6 detailed budget was prepared. I don't know if you got copies 7 of it, so I'm going to hand them out here. That shows 8 exactly where the one million -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Just give them to me; I'll pass them 10 around. 11 MR. HENDERSON: -- exactly where the $1,780,000 is 12 going. The second page is a spreadsheet, and I should hand 13 one to the Sheriff, 'cause he's going to be interested in 14 this. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I see. 16 MR. HENDERSON: Sorry. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I like to see something. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody, two copies. 19 MR. HENDERSON: It's a spreadsheet that does a 20 couple of things. Number one, starting with Column B, it 21 shows the out -- currently outstanding debt of the County, 22 and Column C shows the tax rate associated with that 23 currently outstanding -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bob, can you hold off? We're 25 two copies short. 2-25-08 88 1 MR. HENDERSON: Oh, I'm sorry. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's all right, we're making 3 two more copies. 4 MR. HENDERSON: I don't know how we did that. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Paper supplies running low at 6 your office? 7 MR. HENDERSON: I didn't have my vitamin B-12 this 8 morning. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- one thing while 10 we're waiting. Rex had a question about some of the items 11 being included. Has that all been resolved? 12 MR. EMERSON: I talked to Jeannie. And, for your 13 information, the question that was raised was, in a number of 14 articles that I reviewed preparing for another issue, it 15 appears that there's some limitations on reimbursement bonds 16 and operating expenses that's associated with it and 17 incorporation of operating expenses into those reimbursement 18 bonds. I talked to Jeannie about it, and Jeannie said that 19 she's been in communication with -- with Mr. Henderson and 20 his office, and she's comfortable with the expenses as 21 they're worded. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. EMERSON: I'm not a bond attorney. I just -- I 24 raised the issue, and they're comfortable with it. So -- 25 MR. HENDERSON: And that is an important question. 2-25-08 89 1 And, in fact, when Ms. Hargis e-mailed this list of items, I 2 did forward it to the bond attorney, Tom Spurgeon, and asked 3 him to pay particular attention to those items and confirm 4 that they did meet the state law definition of capital 5 outlay. You know, things such as repair of windows and 6 doors, admittedly, that can be a gray area. Is that a normal 7 operating expense? Or is it, in fact, a capital outlay? And 8 according to the bond attorney, it is a capital outlay, an 9 eligible one for financing. So, we do have a written e-mail 10 from Mr. Spurgeon confirming his legal opinion that all these 11 are eligible items. Now, I also point out that, as the 12 customary -- and, in fact, required by the state 13 Constitution, everything has to be approved by the Texas 14 Attorney General's office. That's part of the reason why we 15 ask for a detailed list. So, as part of the approval process 16 of the transaction, Attorney General's office will also 17 review this list and confirm that everything is eligible for 18 financing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- on those two repair 20 items -- I mean, "repair" is probably not a good word on 21 those, in my mind. I don't know if -- I mean, it's not 22 really repairing windows; it's replacing windows or upgrading 23 windows or refurbishing windows. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Totally rehabilitating or replacing. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rehabilitating. I mean, repair 2-25-08 90 1 comes into more a gray area, but what we're doing certainly 2 isn't gray in my mind. And same goes with the refurbishing 3 the courthouse grounds. I think you get "repair" out of it 4 and say "refurbishing" courthouse grounds, to me, is more 5 what we're having in mind. 6 MR. HENDERSON: And I think what it really boils 7 down to -- and Mr. Spurgeon asked about, you know, the repair 8 of the windows versus replacement. I think what it boils 9 down to is, under GASB rules, can it be categorized as a 10 capital outlay? And if the answer is yes, then it's 11 financeable under the state law. And, again, the Attorney 12 General's office will review this as part of their process. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you like "repair," or 14 would you rather see "refurbishment" or "replacement" or -- 15 MR. HENDERSON: I think when Mr. Spurgeon submits a 16 document to the Attorney General's office, he will make that 17 clarification based on the conversations he's had with 18 Jeannie and I. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 MR. HENDERSON: So I just didn't -- didn't clarify 21 it on my sheet, but I think that Tom has. Going back to Item 22 2, then -- or Page 2, Column B shows the outstanding debt of 23 the district -- or the County. Column D shows the proposed 24 structure of the $1,780,000. And then skip over to Column I, 25 which shows the net taxable assessed valuation in the county, 2-25-08 91 1 and the footnote that we are anticipating about a 2 and a 2 half percent annual growth. And then Column J shows the 3 resulting tax rate. What's added in here -- and I think the 4 Sheriff will be interested in this -- is, as always, we don't 5 want to undertake any financing today that would limit the 6 latitude of the County to deal with its future capital 7 improvement needs. So, in visiting with Ms. Hargis, I asked 8 kind of the standard question, "What else is on the horizon 9 that we need to be cognizant of and potentially planning 10 for?" So that we don't do something with this tax note that 11 would limit the County's latitude, which is a fancy way of 12 saying doesn't cause an undue tax rate increase later because 13 we didn't plan for it. And the answer was, a potential for a 14 jail expansion, and something in the neighborhood of 15 $7 million, and the anticipated time for that would be 2010. 16 So, what I did was add Column F in there, just for 17 planning purposes, so that I can structure the $1,780,000 in 18 such a way that we could, in fact, effect that jail expansion 19 in 2010 without a rate increase. You can see, looking at 20 Column J, that the current tax rate for INS is 4.38 percent. 21 Because our interest rates came in very, very favorable, more 22 favorable than I anticipated, it is going to drop a little 23 bit to 4.31 -- 4.37. But you can see that we could take on 24 the $7 million worth of debt in 2010 for a jail expansion and 25 still have our tax rate be in the 4.35 to 4.37 percent. 2-25-08 92 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that also -- would we 2 also have latitude to -- if necessary, to include 3 supplemental funding for a wastewater project if we don't get 4 what we need out of the Texas Water Development Board? 5 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. Again, your current INS 6 tax rate is 4.4 cents, so 4.38 cents, we're showing a slight 7 decrease. We've got some opportunity with respect to the 8 outstanding debt in the county, which pays out in 2012. The 9 Judge and I, as well as Ms. Hargis, had an interesting 10 conversation about that. The interest rate on that debt is 11 about 4.2 percent. The interest rates available today -- in 12 fact, the interest rates on this tax note transaction is 13 3.3 percent. It would actually be slightly lower than that, 14 except if you look at Column D, you see that in order to 15 accommodate the jail financing, we pushed a fair amount of 16 that principal out to -- to 2013 in order to plan for our 17 future capital improvements. If we had done a level debt 18 structure, it would actually be less than 3.3 percent. So, 19 you would look at your existing debt of the county and say, 20 "Well, gosh, if we're at 4.2 percent, and current market's 21 3.3 percent, can we refinance and save some money?" Well, 22 the answer is yes and no. Ostensibly, we could get lower 23 interest rates there on the County's old debt outstanding at 24 4.2 percent. However, because it pays off so quickly, just 25 in 2012, that the expenses involved in doing the transaction 2-25-08 93 1 would end up eating the little bit of savings that you got if 2 we try to refinance between -- you know, from 4.2 down to 3 3.3. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Big interest year's already 5 over. 6 MR. HENDERSON: Exactly. Now, the lawyer would 7 make some money; I'd make some money, but the County really 8 -- taxpayers wouldn't benefit. Mr. Baldwin gives me a hard 9 time as it is. I certainly can't go down that road. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If we had 15 years left on that 11 issue, why, it might be -- 12 MR. HENDERSON: It would be a very different story. 13 But we don't, so it's just really not cost-effective. But 14 the reason that I mention it is because those bonds are 15 currently callable, which means that any time the County 16 wanted to, we could go out and refinance them. Now, on a 17 stand-alone basis, it probably wouldn't make any sense. 18 However, when we look at the jail deal in 2010, or if there's 19 supplemental funding that might be required as a result of 20 the projects that the Water Development Board -- when we do 21 those, if we need to move some maturities around, it would be 22 cost-effective to take one or two of those jail -- 23 outstanding jail bonds, go ahead and refinance them, 'cause 24 the incremental cost of doing that on top of the financing 25 that you'd already be doing would make it cost-effective. 2-25-08 94 1 It's just not cost-effective on a stand-alone basis. That's 2 a long-winded way of saying yes, is the answer to your 3 question. And, in addition to the growth in the tax base 4 that we'd have to facilitate that, we do have some latitude 5 in your existing debt that we can restructure on a 6 cost-effective manner. So, there are multiple ways to get 7 where you may need to go, depending on how that supplemental 8 funding works out. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If -- if I'm reading this 11 right, if we do not do the jail expansion in 2011, there'll 12 be $350,000 available that year and the next two years to go 13 towards paying off this $1.78 million one faster? 14 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it could -- I mean, so, 16 depending on how that goes, it would pay off basically a year 17 earlier. 18 MR. HENDERSON: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a little more, something 20 like that. 21 MR. HENDERSON: We certainly could. Now, 22 technically, we wouldn't pay this debt off, 'cause that's a 23 3.3 percent. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. HENDERSON: But we could take that money and 2-25-08 95 1 pay off the other jail. We'd get to where you want to go, 2 reducing debt quicker. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. The last page in the 5 handout is really just a debt service schedule. It's an 6 annual debt service schedule. We will provide Ms. Hargis a 7 semiannual debt service schedule. Basically, what it 8 reflects is the principal and the interest at 3.3 percent and 9 what your total annual payments are. I know I talk fast. 10 I'll be happy to answer any questions that you might have. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to interject one 12 thing I mentioned to the Judge this morning, because it may 13 or may not -- and Jeannie knows this. Last Thursday, when we 14 were at the communications meeting with AACOG, we were 15 informed that, you know, by 2012, F.C.C. is going to cancel 16 all wideband radio frequencies, which is what this county is, 17 and everybody will be required to be narrow band digital. 18 That upgrade -- now, our current system can handle it, except 19 it is an upgrade into that system to convert it. But the 20 radio system itself is probably going to be close to half a 21 million. The car radio issue itself, with the radios that 22 are in the cars, we're currently paying 500 a year for each 23 radio that we add to a patrol car, and your costs will be 24 from a minimum of 2,500 to 5,000 per radio in the car. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: God. 2-25-08 96 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And this is not going to be a 2 choice deal. They're canceling them. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the feds are selling the 4 broadband licenses and making big money off of them. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So it will be a major expense 6 by 2012 at the latest. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This has to be by 2012? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're told that they are 9 canceling them in 2012. That's what we were told last week. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There went your jail. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if it operates like most 12 things in the federal system, why, the pressure will build 13 and they'll kick that out forward three to five years. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem you're going to 15 have, if other agencies, such as Kerrville P.D. -- D.P.S. 16 already has. When they go to it, the agencies that aren't 17 with it lose total communication with those other agencies. 18 So, if Kerrville P.D., the City goes to it, we aren't -- we 19 lose communication with the city of Kerrville in cars, okay? 20 D.P.S. has gone to it. We lost communication with D.P.S., 21 except since they closed down their dispatch, they also still 22 have a broadband in theirs that they use to communicate with 23 us, but we have no communication and being able to hear 24 D.P.S. officers talk to each other. So, there will be some 25 major changes in communications. 2-25-08 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be -- in your 2 -- one of your committee assignments that you got a little 3 bit earlier, coordinating with the City would be helpful with 4 that, at least time-wise, so we know when they're doing it. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: City's already starting. 6 MS. HARGIS: They already started. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're buying radios that are 8 digital capable. They aren't digital, but they are -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- are preparing. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? We have not purchased 13 those type of radios. 14 MS. HARGIS: They started two years ago, the City 15 did, phasing in the new radios. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Were we aware of this when 18 we approved your new communication system? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, no. That was part of that 20 Project 25, and they had scrapped it back then and said it 21 was -- they weren't putting any time, and most of them were 22 still going to stay VHF, and the only thing we did do is, I 23 asked them to make sure we were digital capable of upgrading, 24 not replacing the entire system, if it ever did. You'll 25 remember, we had the bids from Motorola that -- 2-25-08 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're off target. 2 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- were, like, three times as 4 much. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's talk about our $1.78 million 6 tax note here. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Mr. Spurgeon, I believe, 8 Federal-Expressed to your attention, Your Honor -- to 9 Jeannie's attention, all the requisite documents that were 10 required. Posted the agenda language last week. Then there 11 was a motion by the Commissioners Court based on the agenda 12 language. I think, unless there's further questions, we're 13 probably ready to vote. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have the language? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest that the language 16 needs to include, in addition to authorizing the issuance of 17 that tax note, that I be authorized to execute any necessary, 18 appropriate documents in connection therewith, including the 19 providing payment to the Attorney General of Texas its fee 20 amount of $1,780. Can that get us there? 21 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 2-25-08 99 1 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a quick question on the 3 list. That list is a guide only, correct? 4 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. There will be, 5 obviously, some -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up and down, shifting between 7 items, if necessary? 8 (Mr. Henderson nodded.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or comments? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Gentlemen, 16 do we have anything further to come before the meeting that 17 was posted for 9 a.m. this morning? Hearing nothing further, 18 that meeting will be adjourned, and we'll return at 1:30 for 19 a workshop meeting that we have on -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ag Barn stuff. 21 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:45 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 2-25-08 100 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 28th day of February, 8 2008. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-25-08