1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Workshop 8 Monday, February 25, 2008 9 1:30 p.m. 10 Commissioners' Courtroom 11 Kerr County Courthouse 12 Kerrville, Texas 13 14 15 16 17 Design Planning for HCYEC 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 25, 2008 2 PAGE 3 4 1. Participate in workshop with architect Peter W. Lewis to discuss design planning for the Hill 5 Country Youth Exhibit Center 3 6 --- Adjourned 45 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, February 25, 2008, at 1:30 p.m., a workshop 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 Commissioners Court workshop posted for this date and time, 9 Monday, February 28, 2008, at 1:30 p.m. It is that time now. 10 The workshop was called for the purpose of participating in a 11 workshop with architect Peter W. Lewis to discuss design 12 planning for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. I don't 13 see any brass bands or great visual arts displays or Power 14 Point presentations. Are you not prepared today or what? 15 MR. LEWIS: I am not prepared today. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How's your pencil? Sharp? 18 MR. LEWIS: It is sharp. It is sharp. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I told Peter about five 20 minutes ago, before we met today -- 21 MR. LEWIS: Three minutes ago. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three minutes ago. Since 23 primarily Bruce and I have been the ones talking to him, it 24 would probably be a good exercise to start with to let Peter 25 tell us all what he thinks Bruce and I told him to do, and 2-25-08 wk 4 1 then y'all can -- then Bruce -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And we'll decide whether or 3 not that's what we told him. 4 MR. LEWIS: I took notes and you didn't. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but I got them. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Then we can decide whether that's 7 what we think you should have told him. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. We probably -- 9 probably the first step is to make sure we're -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why there's more than 11 two of us on this Commissioners Court. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Government at work right 13 there. 14 MR. LEWIS: Well, to that end, thank you for -- 15 thank you for asking us to be a part of this process. And I 16 appreciate being here in front of you today just to talk 17 about it and get some guidance from you, and then we can go 18 off and begin to do our work. I have met -- I met with 19 Jonathan a couple times. And -- no, I don't want to be a 20 smart aleck; I'll just -- and I -- and then I did meet with 21 Commissioner Oehler and Jonathan on December 3rd. We walked 22 around. We walked around the property several times, walked 23 all of the buildings, walked around on the grounds as well, 24 and talked about what the County's vision might be for the 25 use of that facility and the -- talked about the use of a -- 2-25-08 wk 5 1 creating a new events center out there to be used by 2 two-legged animals, and to complement all the things that go 3 on with the -- with the barns and stock show barn and the hog 4 barn. And in the context of that, we talked about relocating 5 some things, and so I'll kind of go through the notes that I 6 had here, and then talk -- make sure that I -- I think they 7 were pretty thorough, and I'll just tell them in order. 8 The long-range master plan will envision, sometime 9 into the future, what that property might look like, given 10 using what is there now to its best advantage and removing 11 what doesn't work now, or relocating certain things on there. 12 The first priority, or the first item that I had as we walked 13 through was to demo the hog barn and add a new pavilion, 14 probably generally in that area, about a 150-foot by 300-foot 15 barn. And then possibly something in the range of a 150-foot 16 by 300-foot event center, which would have common area 17 restrooms, something like a prep kitchen, maybe some offices, 18 meeting rooms as well, and a large -- large open event area 19 that could be multipurpose, and also could be divided, 20 perhaps, into multiple spaces to make it usable for a variety 21 of groups of different sizes. Relocate the existing wash 22 area, renovate the pole barn to be dedicated for use, among 23 others, by Maintenance, 4-H. It would have some restrooms 24 out there. And we talked specifically about how some of 25 those spaces might be divided up even more, but I don't know 2-25-08 wk 6 1 that we're -- we really have a clear vision of that yet. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We probably have jumped ahead 3 and we've already designated a lot of that, but it doesn't 4 make that much difference in the big picture. 5 MR. LEWIS: Relocate the rodeo arena, and to the -- 6 possibly to the other side of the grounds. We did talk about 7 what the -- and the pole barn, my notes further say that 8 about two-thirds of it would work for 4-H, and about a third 9 of it would go to county storage or county use of some kind. 10 There's a desire to have more structured parking, meaning 11 maybe more paved parking, as well as overflow parking, and as 12 we either relocate buildings or add buildings, we'll find 13 that we'll be displacing parking. We talked also about, 14 maybe as we do this master plan, to, oh, create some clear 15 traffic patterns through the site, you know. We have the -- 16 again, as we create new parking areas, we want those to be 17 safe and easy to use, and so how people get -- get on and off 18 the site might change a little bit. Obviously, we'll use 19 Highway 27 to its best advantage. We'll -- just sort of as 20 an aside to that, knowing how challenging it is sometimes to 21 work with TexDOT, that we would do everything we could in the 22 master plan to think about using the existing curb cuts that 23 you have on the highway. 24 And then we talked about some other things. We've 25 got some things out there that -- there's an existing 2-25-08 wk 7 1 barbecue pit out there, and I asked if that was -- that kind 2 of thing was needed, and it wasn't really indicated that it 3 was necessary. There's an existing testing well out there 4 that we would abandon. And anything -- any utilities, any 5 infrastructure that's in place that is either aged or 6 unserviceable or not used to be analyzed, assessed, and -- 7 and abandoned or relocated or upgraded as appropriate. And 8 then we talked a little bit about the -- just kind of the 9 image of this. It is -- it is a county exhibit center. It 10 is agricultural and -- and other types of purposes. It's 11 adjunct to the Arts and Crafts Fair site, so there's -- it 12 appears there's an opportunity for maybe overlap of uses at 13 times. I know that as a board member of Arts and Crafts 14 Fair, during that weekend in May, we take over that whole 15 area and we use the parking, and this next year, we'll use 16 the events -- the indoor events center. And so it appears 17 that recognizing that and taking those facilities that are 18 there now, as well as any -- any plan to kind of leverage the 19 collaboration for all of that acreage out there, and use it 20 to its highest and best advantage. 21 We talked specifically about some of the buildings, 22 some of the things in terms of events lighting and 23 waterproofing. So, some of the -- some of what we would do 24 would be to assess -- in our proposal was to assess the 25 existing buildings, and if we're going to propose to reuse a 2-25-08 wk 8 1 building or to add on to it or whatever, we would want to 2 make sure that, structurally, it's sound, and, you know, we 3 need to add insulation or the things we night might need to 4 do to make that fit well into the plan. So, obviously, it 5 would be easy to do new buildings and build them where they 6 meet all your needs. It's a little more challenging to take 7 existing facilities and upgrade them, but if that seems to be 8 the appropriate use of these, that's what we want to do. 9 That's the long and short of it. I had -- the notes we had 10 from back when we were doing the original walk-through pretty 11 well track that, before we submitted our proposal. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you tell him all that 13 stuff, Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, between the two of us, 15 we did. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 17 MR. LEWIS: Not bad. Two sets of notes to 18 corroborate that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You made the notes, right? 20 MR. LEWIS: I made the notes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's kind of go back to the 22 beginning. Hog barn area. Initially, demo what's there now. 23 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And what's the thought about 25 replacing, if any? 2-25-08 wk 9 1 MR. LEWIS: Well, that -- that's -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's -- 3 MR. LEWIS: That's something y'all -- yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about pretty 5 plain-jane ag uses? Are we talking about maybe an 6 enlargement of the -- of the existing exhibit space on an 7 add-on basis? Or are we talking about multi-use, where, if 8 push comes to shove, you can use it for ag purposes, such as 9 new, you know, hog pens, but portable to the extent you could 10 clean that out and have a much expanded exhibit center? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think where we were is that 12 the -- both, to answer your question. We need another ag 13 barn. We need a barn to replace the hog barn and put sheep 14 or something like that. We need a barn, and then we probably 15 need a separate building, and the barn could be attached to 16 the arena or it could be detached. Kind of depends how 17 Peter -- but there also, somewhere in the mix, we need 18 something akin to the current exhibit hall, but it's not ag. 19 A building -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the 150-by-300 that you're 21 talking about, the new -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's the barn. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- stand-alone building. I 24 understand that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the barn, but then 2-25-08 wk 10 1 there's also a building that would be a replacement for the 2 exhibit hall where animals may go in on an auction, but 3 that's about it. 4 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. The thought there was to -- to 5 segregate human and non-human events. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But what I'm trying to do is -- is 7 envision some sort of a transition, and we're probably 8 looking at a multi-phased -- 9 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- multi-phase project here to get 11 to the end of the road, the big -- major portion of which 12 will be the new stand-alone, 150-by-300, approximately. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Our timing has to be 14 right on doing the hog barn thing, and what I think, and I 15 believe Jonathan agrees with, is that back part has got to 16 go. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I've got no disagreement with 18 that, Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But then what goes back in we 20 want to use. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where I'm coming from. If -- 22 the existing hog barn I don't think can be rehabbed with any 23 degree of economical -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Absolutely not. It needs to 25 be -- 2-25-08 wk 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- practicality. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- expanded and concrete 3 floor, where all your pens are portable. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can utilize that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But if push comes to shove, -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- while you're awaiting this new, 9 bigger facility over here, if you need an expanded exhibit 10 hall area, -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as it were. And, of course, you 13 could put in appropriate openings between the two, where they 14 could all be used at once. And -- and, true, it would be 15 ag-suitable, but it would also be -- we have a lot of 16 functions out there now that -- that seem to work just fine 17 for it, and it just gives us the opportunity to have bigger 18 functions. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, I agree. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's kind of -- the 21 phasing of it is -- before you can -- you've got to build a 22 barn for animals before you can tear the hog barn down. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You got to get -- the barn has 25 to go, and then, depending on the timing and money and lots 2-25-08 wk 12 1 of other things, and where a people building would go kind of 2 depends on how you mix it with the exhibit hall and all that 3 stuff. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't see the ability to, say, 5 starting in, say, early February, clear out the hog barn, 6 come in with a replacement facility, and have that in place 7 for the next stock show season? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly what I 9 envision. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's always been my 11 vision. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That we would take care of 14 the ag -- ag requirements, get them a new facility, get them 15 out of where they are, take care of that. I've always 16 thought that that could be adjacent to the east of the 17 existing arena, tie all that together for agricultural 18 purposes, and move that arena and get the stock show moved, 19 and then start on a people facility on the other side. 20 That's always been my vision. 21 MR. LEWIS: And a big -- and a large ag facility is 22 going to be pretty simple to construct. I mean, it's going 23 to be simple with large, clear spans. Going to pour a slab, 24 you know, provide -- the complicated things are going to be a 25 few restrooms and things like that that you night need, just 2-25-08 wk 13 1 to support the people doing that, and maintenance -- storage 2 inside or maintenance rooms inside. But that -- that would 3 be -- that's something that could go up in -- you know, I 4 hesitate to commit here, but, you know, six to eight months 5 construction period, something like that. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's a very quick deal. 7 For the newer, bigger facility, we're talking about a little 8 bit more of a people facility; it's going to be a little bit 9 longer term process to build. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure, more things going 11 into it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A bit more going into it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But during the interim period, you 14 could use the new ag-intended facility for -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ag. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- functions, just like we use the 17 exhibit hall right now. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and one of the things 19 that probably needs to be talked about is -- and I think it 20 needs to be for his purpose, and our purpose too, is do we 21 tear down the existing exhibit hall, that's heated and 22 air-conditioned somewhat, completely and start all over? Or 23 try to do something with that? And I don't -- I'm beginning 24 to think it -- I know about building a little bit, and it's 25 much easier to go back new than it is to try to fix up one 2-25-08 wk 14 1 that's already not functioning very well. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather see us put a big 3 "X" on that building. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Build you a -- you know, 5 you'd still have a slab there, and you'd still have some 6 things you could use, but it needs to be a facility that's 7 well insulated, that's economical to run, and maybe a little 8 bit larger than what it is, and get rid of some of those 9 posts and things in there, have it more of a -- little bit 10 bigger. Bigger clear span, if we can get it. 11 MR. LEWIS: My thought is, we've walked through 12 there, and you asked that question to deliberate about it, is 13 that maybe this new event center is adjunct to that and we 14 figure out a way to salvage and reuse what is there now. But 15 for, you know, common uses, maybe that's where restrooms go. 16 I think the slab appears to be -- I think we want to take 17 borings on it eventually. The recommendation would be to 18 assess the foundation, but it appears to be in good 19 condition. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's very -- 21 MR. LEWIS: Very little cracking. And so if we 22 could envision a use for that, an overlapping use, or adding 23 on to that, but tear down the superstructure and -- and take 24 advantage of that, but -- and put a new cap over it, add 25 foundation to it. Or maybe, like I said, it's a connector to 2-25-08 wk 15 1 the indoor arena and an event center that's on the other 2 side. And then -- or back where the hog barn is now, use 3 that area in the back. And that's what the master planning 4 is about, to sort of assess it there and just look -- look at 5 how these pieces -- how 150 feet by 300 feet fit, and then 6 how it logically relates to the other things that it's next 7 to. This isn't rocket science. We've got a few moving parts 8 out there; they just happen to be very big parts. You know, 9 you got the 40,000 and 50,000 square foot parts for these 10 arenas, and so it's not going to be real complicated. I 11 think we can explore a lot of ways that new construction can 12 complement what's there. 13 And then the other thing I was talking about is 14 refurbishing some of what's there where you have roof leaks 15 or where you need more insulation; you got birds eating up 16 all the insulation that's there now. And -- but some of 17 that's just easy. That's maintenance. That's just -- that's 18 a slam-dunk. And I'll -- as a -- again, on behalf of the 19 Arts and Crafts Fair and tenants of the County -- as a tenant 20 of the County, we would -- we would -- we have seen a need 21 out in that end of the county -- or in the county for an 22 events center, and could envision how that could complement 23 the grounds that we have on the River Star Arts and Events 24 Park. And wherever the building is placed, we'll be able to 25 use that outdoor area that's kind of park-like right now; 2-25-08 wk 16 1 it's got restrooms there already, outdoor restrooms. So, 2 we'd look at all those kinds of things. 3 We'd look at -- I would suggest that we would look 4 at the county site without River Star and kind of figure out 5 what can happen there, and then look at also at how we can 6 take advantage of all of that, the additional 7 acres, 'cause 7 it's your -- it's your property; we just happen to have been 8 fortunate enough to have a long-term lease on it. But my 9 vision for the whole grounds would be something that follows 10 along the lines of what we've done, and the structures -- you 11 know, they're -- they're open, big metal structures, big 12 spans. I don't see -- I see anything architectural would be 13 embellishments, ornament to -- to tell us where the entries 14 are to the various buildings, where the public entries are 15 and things. But, on balance, these are large agricultural 16 buildings. And, you know, I'm rambling. Don't say that -- 17 well, you did. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do we get there? 19 MR. LEWIS: Well, I think how we get there is that 20 -- what I need to do -- the first thing would be to sit and 21 codify all the requirements. And we've -- I mean, I don't 22 think -- again, I don't think it's a real long list. But -- 23 but we would say, okay, we want a new ag barn. Okay, what 24 are -- what are the dimensions of that? How many people do 25 we think we want to accommodate in that, and what are the 2-25-08 wk 17 1 support facilities for it? We have a pretty good sense of 2 what might -- might happen with the maintenance and 4-H barn, 3 but go ahead and put that down on paper and say here are the 4 uses, and here are what we think the number of people, the 5 space allocations; do that for all these different uses. And 6 then get our -- you know, quantify the rodeo arena, what your 7 expectations are, if we're relocating something of like size, 8 or does it need to be bigger? Smaller? And -- and some of 9 that would be -- I would take -- I'd start by taking the 10 notes I've got and fleshing them out, and trying to be smart 11 about taking my best guess, and then coming back and sitting 12 down, and probably with Commissioner Oehler and Commissioner 13 Letz, and let them help develop that. 14 And then the next thing to do would be to begin to 15 -- and in complementing that, at the same time, we would also 16 maybe get -- get some engineering help to take a look -- just 17 a visual look at the buildings right now and assess the 18 foundation from a visual perspective, get some idea of -- of 19 all of the utilities on there. We do have site surveys, but 20 we'd want to maybe ask the -- I think the Voelkels have done 21 most of the surveying work out there, but maybe ask -- make 22 sure we understand where all the easements are and -- and 23 underground utilities, and then what surprises we might find, 24 if there are some that aren't documented. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, one thing -- one 2-25-08 wk 18 1 thing that would be hard to do is to put a building on the -- 2 the west side of the existing building, 'cause that's where 3 the sewer line is. 4 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. Without re -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sewer line runs right down 6 that parking lot that's on the west side of the existing hog 7 barn. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: How far out? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It runs right down the 10 middle. 11 MR. LEWIS: Middle of that paved area. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Edge of the pavement, between 13 it and the barbecue pit, somewhere in that area. 14 MR. LEWIS: And I think that's a logical place to 15 have traffic circulate. And we've kind of -- I've looked at 16 this some, just in passing, not hard and fast. But I think 17 we -- that can be accommodated. And, I mean, if push comes 18 to shove, if you say the best use of that is to put a 19 building there and relocate the sewer, that's just part of 20 the program. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peter, you may have 22 mentioned it and I missed it; I'm not sure, but did you talk 23 about a new concession stand and improving that in 24 conjunction with the ag side? 25 MR. LEWIS: Well, I did -- I didn't mention that, 2-25-08 wk 19 1 but that is a -- that's an important subset of this. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it needs -- that is 3 another real need, that area that's now the concession stand. 4 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In my opinion, it's not 6 located where you would want to -- 7 MR. LEWIS: Well, we might -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just not -- it's not 9 good space. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not adequate, not 11 located properly. 12 MR. LEWIS: And if it's possible, and we have this 13 people events center and the ag events center, if we could 14 share -- you know, somehow or other share a lot of the 15 infrastructure for a concession, you got a lot of plumbing, 16 and you might -- if we bring gas to it for some reason or 17 other, maybe if you have the opportunity to -- one fronts on 18 one, one fronts on the other. I'm -- I'm not trying to 19 design this thing ahead of time, but where we can gain 20 efficiencies by -- by sharing uses. And, you know, 'cause 21 you want to be able to use them 24/7 if there's a demand for 22 it. So -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the extent you can back up and 24 mirror your restrooms, kitchen, -- 25 MR. LEWIS: Right. 2-25-08 wk 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that sort of stuff, you're going 2 to save a lot on your plumbing and electrical costs. 3 MR. LEWIS: If you had a clear -- you know, if 4 there were very distinct entries and common area where you 5 came in and you said, "Okay, I'm participating in events over 6 here; I know I go here," but all of the restrooms for that 7 are -- are in this common area. If that makes sense, 8 that's -- you know, we would pursue that. I told -- I told 9 the Commissioners when we were out walking around, we'll look 10 at a couple different scenarios that place buildings. The 11 next step would be to go ahead and start looking at planning 12 and take these blocks of space, think about the relationships 13 that -- that exist between public restrooms and -- and this 14 space and this space. Or -- or the overlap where the ability 15 to open up -- as you were suggesting, Judge, the ability to 16 open up one to the other and -- and have a much larger 17 extended area, and so instead of having two 45,000 square 18 foot buildings, you might end up having 90,000 square feet 19 under a roof, connected. 20 Connectors might be -- those connectors also might 21 be something where they're all-weather connectors, or they're 22 a vehicle -- you know, vehicles can come through them to load 23 both ways, one way or the other. I think there are lots of 24 pretty simple things to look at that would give you some 25 options to say, "Yeah, this works for us; these are the right 2-25-08 wk 21 1 sizes." And then we do understand that it would be phased, 2 so part of what we would do would be to help assess how that 3 would be phased logically, in context of use, and so that you 4 don't abandon a use and not have a place for that, or you 5 don't -- yeah, you don't abandon a building and not have a 6 place for the use to go. So, kind of -- kind of just some 7 clean-up, general things. It occurs to me that if we find a 8 place for relocating the rodeo arena, it would be a pretty 9 easy thing to do almost any time in the process, and it's -- 10 it's going to have the least construction to ratio of 11 anything. It's going to -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's going -- 13 MR. LEWIS: -- going to be a quick, quick thing; 14 six, eight weeks or something, I don't know. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- doing that as soon as 16 we could opens up visually being able to see how things are 17 going to work. You really see how much space you're freeing 18 up. 19 MR. LEWIS: That's a lot of space, between the 20 7 acres that River Star has and what the -- your -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sewer line. 22 MR. LEWIS: And the sewer line, yeah. Well, there 23 is -- I mean, yeah, there is a lot of space there. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the thing is -- 25 MR. LEWIS: It could be park, but it could be 2-25-08 wk 22 1 building, too. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The reason that it's going to 3 be back, it's not going to have all the bucking chutes and 4 all the stuff the old one has. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talking about the 6 outdoor arena? Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't need that. If 8 they need to have a rodeo, they can go inside and have one. 9 If they're going to have a 4-H, you know, event with roping 10 and pole bending and barrel racing and goat roping and all 11 that kind of stuff, they can do that in an outdoor -- limited 12 outdoor facility that doesn't have to have near the things -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just won't have bucking 14 chutes. It will have a roping box, though. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have a roping box. But that 16 still doesn't take up any room compared to what they're 17 taking up now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It doesn't get used; all it 20 is is a maintenance nightmare. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 MR. LEWIS: One of the things I want to be sure 23 that I hear from y'all is what your constituents and what the 24 -- the user groups have told you that they -- they think is 25 important, and have it filtered out to us, but -- so that we 2-25-08 wk 23 1 -- we hear everything that is expected of us one way or the 2 other. You know, I'm getting a good perspective on that 3 today, but if -- what nobody wants to have happen is have 4 some voice out there that becomes very vocal because it 5 wasn't considered in, you know, how we did this planning. 6 And so we've had some conversations about that, but I -- and 7 I look to y'all to guide me in how we deal with that kind 8 of -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ernie Kaiser needs an 10 elevator to go up and down to his nature bay. 11 MR. LEWIS: In that office -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I told him we'll get a loader 13 and dump him in the window. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the answer. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think on the -- from the 16 stock show standpoint, they get by with the space we have 17 now, so we need to have more space. Not a whole lot more. 18 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it needs to be a little bit 20 more flexible. Because the meat goats, for example, have 21 tripled, quadrupled in numbers, where some other things have 22 dropped, so we need to be able to have space that can go from 23 one type of animal to another type of animal without having 24 to -- there are pens out there in the hog barn right now that 25 are fixed. They need to be a lot more portable. 2-25-08 wk 24 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All portable. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All portable. And -- but I 3 think on the, you know, square footage standpoint, you need 4 to have a -- an area where you have the auction now, 5 preferably an ag building, and then you need to have the area 6 where all the pens are, and where the back part of the hog 7 barn -- you know, that square footage plus some, and maybe 8 20 percent plus. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you just run it on 10 out even with the existing big indoor building that has the 11 pens on the back. I think you just run that building on out, 12 and it will require moving a sewer line a little bit. 13 MR. LEWIS: In this area -- wash area? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the sewer line comes 15 out the back right where that concrete wash rack is now, and 16 concrete between the buildings. 17 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm, right. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it turns and goes behind 19 the existing barn, ties into the main line. 20 MR. LEWIS: Again, if we need to relocate -- like I 21 said, I mean, if relocating either a private or a public 22 utility line is the best thing for the long-range plans, then 23 that's not that big a deal in the context of this proposal, 24 or project. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have y'all identified what 2-25-08 wk 25 1 improvements need to be made to the big arena now? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Big arena, probably, I think 3 that over time, we're going to need to start replacing the 4 tin, and the insulation is gone. It's nasty and it's 5 cracking and falling down. It's just -- 6 MR. LEWIS: Lots of bird nests. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Birds. It's just got to be 8 cleaned, and put up basically new insulation, new tin, and 9 just basic -- you know, that's something we can probably do 10 somewhat in-house on a systematic -- do so much this year and 11 so much next year. And that way, as something comes around, 12 you do the same process, and not have to do it all at one 13 time. It's fairly expensive. But if we want to do it all at 14 one time and we got the money, we can do it. I do think that 15 needs to be done. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: New air movers? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Those never worked. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Electrical in good shape, 19 or needs repair? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably not bad. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Electrical's okay in the 22 indoor arena, now. But, you know, as we build some of this 23 new stuff, replace some of the stuff, we're going to need 24 some better sound systems, better lighting in most all those 25 areas, 'cause all that stuff is obsolete. 2-25-08 wk 26 1 MR. LEWIS: One of the things that's part of our 2 product to you and part of our service to you, we'll bring in 3 some consulting engineers that we -- I have. We'll come do a 4 walk-through and look. You say electrical's good. They 5 might be able to go and indicate where certain upgrades are 6 needed, or capacity of existing service, and -- and that will 7 be part of our assessment. So that we -- we -- instead of 8 feeling like stuff is good, we want to know for a fact, and 9 we have somebody that can -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe, you know, if we're 11 going to do this, we need to make it look good and be good. 12 But just like the electrical service stuff, a lot of that 13 stuff could be placed in -- in an equipment room, rather than 14 having it sticking out there on poles that, you know, are 15 going to -- that are deteriorating, and it's just another -- 16 basically another safety hazard. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Liability issue, yeah. If you got 18 -- we got some electrical in the indoor arena that's 19 potentially a liability issue. 20 MR. LEWIS: And so those are some of the things 21 that our engineers could come and assess -- visually assess, 22 as well as do some -- look at some of the individual service 23 entries, and -- and some of our recommendations would be 24 consolidation of service, upgrades. We -- everything new 25 that we do and everything that we touch, we want to be with 2-25-08 wk 27 1 current codes. I mean, you are building for the next 25 to 2 50 years, and so as we take each step forward, we'll bring 3 everything up to today's standards. That probably won't 4 change a whole lot in the next 25 years. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think one of the things 6 that's happened, and it continues to happen, it's more -- is 7 the fact that 4-H, you know, they have the priority use of 8 that thing, and they -- they book that facility a lot for 9 things, like the little area that we have now that we call 10 the event center whatever you want to call it; it's a dining 11 hall or show arena or whatever. 12 MR. LEWIS: It's all those things. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all those things. It's 14 a BB gun range and it's -- you know, it serves many purposes. 15 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I think one of the goals 17 is that we -- we have that available for them and we give 18 them good space to use. But if -- when we get this other 19 bigger, newer space, that those -- that gives us the ability 20 to lease this stuff out to multiple -- multiple types of 21 shows and functions and exhibits, and you name it; we'll have 22 them. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We won't have that conflict 25 of having 4-H tie up the whole facility for a week when it 2-25-08 wk 28 1 doesn't need to be tied up. You know, or sometimes they use 2 it for a backup -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- plan. And, you know, we 5 want them to -- we want them to be taken care of, number one, 6 but we also need to take care of other things that come to 7 Kerrville that benefit Kerrville. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 9 MR. LEWIS: And I -- there's been a lot of 10 conversation over the last couple years about the need for a 11 large indoor event center, and I think there's a tremendous 12 pent-up demand that will really be realized once the facility 13 is available. And I think it will also be a catalyst for 14 other things happening along -- in east Kerr County along 27, 15 you know, and things like motels and restaurants will start 16 to spring up. 'Cause as -- as you create a space a lot of 17 people use, they're going to want amenities to go with that. 18 So, I think it's a great economic driver, and you'll -- I 19 believe you'll realize that immediately when you have the new 20 facilities. Right now, people -- so many -- you know, the 21 facilities are well used, but if they are much better, 22 they're going to get much better use and a broader range of 23 uses. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, exactly. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I -- I think this is 2-25-08 wk 29 1 somewhat on topic. Jeannie, can you look up -- I know there 2 was some legislation not too long ago that enabled counties 3 to put sales tax areas together that are smaller than the 4 whole county, like doing an ag barn, and -- and can you look 5 at as to how that's done and if that's reasonable? 6 MS. HARGIS: Sales tax district. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sales tax district. And if we 8 don't want to expand it, because, I mean, that area is not in 9 the city. It can -- it does have quite a bit of -- well, 10 2 percent it can go up -- whatever it is, it can go up on 11 sales tax. 12 MS. HARGIS: First come, first served, you know, on 13 sales tax. Whoever applies for it first -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whoever applies for it first. 15 And the City can't apply for it, 'cause it's not in their 16 city limits, so -- 17 MS. HARGIS: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it -- something was 19 brought up, some new legislation that gave counties the 20 ability to do things differently, and I think it would be 21 both the Arts and Crafts Foundation and the fair, and this is 22 a pretty good source of revenue to help fund some of this. 23 And I think it would -- it can be a special, you know, 24 designation of proceeds. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 2-25-08 wk 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The River Star is not in the city? 2 MR. LEWIS: No, we're about 200 feet or so from the 3 city limits. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are your annual sales? 5 What are your sales at the show? 6 MR. LEWIS: Off the top of my head, I don't know 7 the figures, but it's -- it is the largest single economic 8 event in Kerr County. And that may be eclipsed somewhat by 9 the Hill Country Shooting Sports Center, as that -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's difficult to pull that 11 number together, 'cause each of those vendors -- 50 different 12 vendors, they don't reveal their total sales to you. 13 MR. LEWIS: And so -- yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they have to, though, because 15 the percentage that -- y'all take a percentage of sales, 16 don't you? 17 MR. LEWIS: Well, we take concessions and we -- we 18 do a flat booth fee, and then we do our gate, and that's it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, it's no longer a percentage of 20 sales? It's a flat fee basis? 21 (Mr. Lewis nodded.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You only got the percentage 24 off of -- off of food before you changed the process, right? 25 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 2-25-08 wk 31 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got it off there. 2 MR. LEWIS: It's too hard to -- it is difficult to 3 track anybody who's been in open air markets or art events or 4 things like that. It's very hard to -- 5 MS. HARGIS: They don't report it all. If it's 6 cash, they don't report it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Years ago, it used to be on a 9 percentage of sales. 10 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. Back when we were maybe in 11 simpler, kinder, gentler times. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, if we're going to -- 14 MR. LEWIS: But, yeah, it's an incredible multiple 15 three-day economic event, and so just think if we could have 16 four or five or six of those a year. You have a facility 17 that could do it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You bet. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We know of one event coming 20 up in 2009. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's that? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In July, 2,500 people are 23 going to be in town for nine days. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the spelunkers. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2-25-08 wk 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Speleology. International 2 Convention of Speleology. 3 MR. LEWIS: Really? Are they going to do some 4 spelunking out in the county? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 6 MR. LEWIS: There's a bunch of that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They called me the other day 8 wanting to know if our new building will be ready for them. 9 I said I don't think so. 10 MR. LEWIS: Speleology. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I hope so, but we're going to 12 have to get high and behind on raising money and starting the 13 process. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We -- you know -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I really believe that -- 16 you know, that we need to expand that animal part where the 17 hog deal is now, maybe even connect it to the existing 18 building, with the indoor arena, all that under one roof. 19 Pour concrete in it to where you can have multiple things in 20 there, 'cause when the stock show's over, you don't have any 21 reason to have pens set up in that thing the rest of the 22 year. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You're right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can do all kind of shows; 25 garden shows -- 2-25-08 wk 33 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, all kinds of things you 2 could have if you had concrete and didn't have a bunch of hog 3 pens sitting in it. 4 MR. LEWIS: I think some things that you do -- I 5 mean, think about how the festivals -- how you could expand 6 on the festivals that happen. You could do automobile shows, 7 gun shows, I mean, all kind of indoor shows that maybe you do 8 a little bit of now, but if you have a newer, nicer facility, 9 it's going to be a bigger draw. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, just look what you 11 could do with the Arts and Crafts Fair that comes in that 12 time of year if that was a pavilion-type situation. 13 MR. LEWIS: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That maybe it was closed down 15 that west side. 16 MR. LEWIS: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the rest of it basically 18 open air, but it still probably would have -- you know, tie 19 it to the front building. 20 MR. LEWIS: We found, because of the -- the real 21 intense rains last year, that we weren't sure we were going 22 to have a fair, and then we did. But we moved a bunch of our 23 artists into the indoor area, and they loved it, and that 24 place -- that part of it's booked this year. And, so, 25 that's, again, why we keep coming back -- if we can expand 2-25-08 wk 34 1 that, I think one thing is it'll increase our revenue, 2 because we can charge more for that. Additionally, if we 3 have a rain-out -- if we ever had a rain-out completely, it 4 would devastate the Arts and Crafts Fair, because we rely on 5 that event for a big chunk of our annual operating revenue. 6 We're doing other events, but having that -- having that 7 flexibility, I mean, people -- you know, if it rains, people 8 are still going to come, but not in the numbers that we need 9 them to. If we had two or three years like this past year, 10 we'd be hurting. So, an indoor center where you can move a 11 bunch of your artists in there and still have the outdoor 12 grounds for a lot of different things, just -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You'd be much better off if 14 they were under cover. 15 MR. LEWIS: They like it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exhibitors want to be under 17 cover. 18 MR. LEWIS: They do. And there's some -- and we 19 have -- you know, and we've seen -- we've done a lot of 20 research and visited a lot of different events around the 21 state, and there's a decline in interest in outdoor events 22 like this. When we were kids, I mean, that was just the 23 thing to do; it was so neat. And -- and these -- 24 generationally, it's not as appealing much any more, and so 25 everything we can do -- people do want to be indoors. They 2-25-08 wk 35 1 do like comfort, and particularly during July and August. If 2 you had a nice, very comfortable, all -- all-season indoor 3 events facility, well, I think it would just be gangbusters. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could also maybe -- maybe 5 charge the fair a little premium. 6 MR. LEWIS: No, you don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't work that way? 8 MR. LEWIS: You don't want to do that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, you know, what you 10 talked about -- 11 MR. LEWIS: I'm stepping down now. (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talked about the 13 increased -- the additional interest of some of your vendors 14 because of the opportunity to move under the roof -- 15 MR. LEWIS: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- would give you the 17 opportunity to recover those guys that have moved out to the 18 Y.O., and bring them back under your -- 19 MR. LEWIS: It would. In fact, we've seen some 20 movement back. There's -- other circumstances prevail, of 21 course, but we're seeing some movement back, and part of it 22 was the ability to offer an indoor -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You think about having 25 another building that you could actually put -- you could -- 2-25-08 wk 36 1 I don't know how many exhibitors you could put into, say, a 2 40,000 square foot space. 3 MR. LEWIS: A bunch. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You could -- and it could -- 6 you would have room to build. 7 MR. LEWIS: You could put -- you could put almost 8 all of our exhibitors in there -- well, say, 75 percent of 9 them in there, let's put it that way. And we've got all 10 these little outdoor booths, but, you know, the big tents are 11 -- our pavilion is 40 by 100, and the big tents are generally 12 in that range, and so -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then if we -- then the next 14 thing will be to get the next big building be more of a 15 full-time people building. Then you would have even -- you 16 could expand it even more. You could even be having some 17 other kind of show going on. 18 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Until it grew to the point -- 20 MR. LEWIS: And if you are -- if the building has 21 spaces that can be configured differently with moving walls 22 and things like that, it gives you a lot more flexibility. 23 There are -- oh, for instance, our former Executive Director, 24 Bob Miller, puts on a fly fishing show, and they'd like to do 25 classrooms, and they want to do the -- a show like that out 2-25-08 wk 37 1 on the fairgrounds and use Flat Rock Lake if needed, put 2 different things. But if you had an indoor facility, a 3 classroom space, that type of event where they -- you know 4 lecturers come, or experts come, that just makes all those 5 other spaces more valuable. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we're talking about is 7 a potential of ultimately, perhaps, filling a need -- a 8 longstanding need in the community. We don't have a facility 9 that can seat 1,000 people in a dinner, and you're talking 10 about a building that can do that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The building that we're 12 talking about can seat close to 2,500. 13 MR. LEWIS: Well, that Tivy High School could 14 graduate from. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly right. 16 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. So, there's nothing that -- that 17 would accommodate a full graduation with all the families at 18 an indoor event. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just so there's so much, and 20 the whole thing is multi-use. You know, multi-use, not 21 limited use. 22 MR. LEWIS: Simple buildings. I mean, they can be 23 very simple buildings, and have a very nice campus at the end 24 of the day, whenever the end of that day is. And we may be 25 around to see it; we may not. But if we have a vision for 2-25-08 wk 38 1 what it can be now, at least set the standard for it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I assume that the 3 improvements -- the ag improvements you're talking about, 4 which were -- basically would be on the east side of the 5 existing arena, right? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably. But, I mean -- 7 MR. LEWIS: We're going to explore. I think we'll 8 look at both. And, again, it's pretty easy to put blocks 9 down and -- and the internal parts and how they connect, and 10 look at it here, look at it back here, over here -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess I was leading up to 12 the question that the -- the parking area, which was the old 13 polo field, would continue to be our major parking area? 14 That's where I was going with that. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably still will be. 16 MR. LEWIS: Saying most likely. Doesn't seem to 17 make sense to put a building further and further away from 18 the center of activities, as well as the 7 acres of park on 19 the other side, if you can -- and it does seem to make sense 20 to use that for cars. We talk about more structured parking, 21 more paving, and -- and then -- and then in the overall 22 master plan, just some things to dress up the front along the 23 highway and make it a place that's just a little softer and a 24 little more appealing as you drive by. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: New signage out front? 2-25-08 wk 39 1 MR. LEWIS: New signage out front, some 2 landscape -- some landscaped things. I don't know what that 3 is, but, you know, some things with landscaping, entry -- 4 entry gates. Maybe, again, making it very clear how you 5 enter in a vehicle, and then once you're on the property and 6 you've parked, how you enter the buildings. Those are things 7 that -- that's kind of where the planning and the 8 architecture part comes in. But just -- those are things to 9 just enhance the overall function of this place. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, next step you need is to 11 get with us and go over the detailed requirements. 12 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. We want to do -- what we want to 13 do is, you know, program spaces and what those spaces are, 14 what the sizes ought to be for those, and then, you know, 15 whatever kind of comments and things about that. And then 16 we can tell you -- you know, we know if you got restrooms, we 17 know how many restrooms you're going to need to do for this 18 many people; that's the kind of stuff that we'll plug in. 19 But I want to be sure that we're real clear about the uses 20 and the spaces that will be required, and then we can develop 21 footprints to do that and look at them. Like I say, pretty 22 simply look at them all over the site, and just -- in places 23 that are logical and make sense. So, that would be the first 24 deal, and then we can get our -- I mean, as soon as we have 25 -- have some sense of what might happen, and then I can get 2-25-08 wk 40 1 together our engineering team and bring them up, and -- and 2 walk through, look at the utilities, look at the electricity 3 -- electrical and mechanical, plumbing and inside the 4 building, do kind of an assessment, and then talk to the 5 operations folks, talk to maintenance people, get their 6 perspective too. It's always good to get input from the 7 folks who have to deal with it every day and deal with all 8 the -- all the repairs, or -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can probably get that to you 10 by the end of the week, I'd say. I know we're meeting 11 Thursday again. We could each -- you know, everyone write it 12 down and get it to Bruce. 13 MR. LEWIS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Part of the plan is to move 15 the outdoor arena this year, right? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of what our 19 bond issue's all about, right? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It doesn't have anything -- 21 we can get this thing built so cheap, it won't even be funny. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's good. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The bond issue, the little 24 under 500,000 that's in there is really set aside more as 25 going for grants, that we're putting up that amount. And I 2-25-08 wk 41 1 think anything that we do in the process, we keep track of, 2 like moving the arena. And we've already, you know, done, 3 you know, a couple hundred thousand, whatever it is, towards 4 getting us to the point that we can do it, and then going out 5 for -- you know, 'cause the more we show that we're putting 6 up, the easier it's going to be to raise some money. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The sooner Peter gets a 8 concept plan ready, the sooner we can go see folks like 9 U.S.D.A., see what's available there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can be fairly -- I mean, 11 what's your -- how long to get all this completed, do you 12 think? 13 MR. LEWIS: Well, this first part of it, I think we 14 can -- you know, we can tackle in the next couple weeks, get 15 the program done. What we got to do is get our base maps 16 together as well so we can do some planning. I think I've -- 17 in my original proposal, I had kind of -- I think I gave you 18 a schedule, and I -- if we adjust for time, I'd say -- I was 19 going to say that, you know, if you go out for matching 20 grants, the more that you do things like classroom spaces in 21 this public building, or educational grants that -- and as 22 well as that complement the programs -- education programs 23 you do, I think there's a lot of money out there from various 24 sources that makes sense. Well, I have to say, if I 25 documented a schedule early on, I don't -- I didn't keep a 2-25-08 wk 42 1 good record of it, but I will put together a schedule. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably -- you're looking at 3 probably two months -- 4 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm, I think so. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to get mostly through this? 6 Okay. 7 MR. LEWIS: And then what -- you know, we'll have 8 -- we'll have two-dimensional drawings of the layout, but 9 then we'll also produce a little something that's a -- 10 something -- you know, bird's eye perspective that -- just 11 eye wash, but it gives a sense of, in three dimensions, what 12 this thing might look like if you're coming into Kerrville 13 Airport -- Schreiner Field. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, I think -- we know 15 that we need to expand the size of the livestock area a 16 little bit, and then work on deciding whether -- if we're 17 still going to use that -- what we call the convention hall, 18 you know, or whatever the heck you want to call it, exhibit 19 hall, if we're going to continue to use that for smaller 20 functions, you know, say up to 600 people for a sit-down 21 dinner type situation, do we want to expand that a little 22 bit, or do we want to leave it the same, or do we want to -- 23 you know, what are we going to do with that area? Because 24 we're going to build, hopefully, another area that's going to 25 have a lot of that in it. Do we need two of those, or do we 2-25-08 wk 43 1 just need one? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one, but I think what 3 we probably need to do, we need to just put down -- from what 4 I'm hearing Peter say, we need to put down what we want it to 5 have, and then we can -- you and I can hash some things out 6 Thursday. 7 MR. LEWIS: Say we want a meeting room for 1,000 8 people. You don't need to tell me the dimensions of it. 9 I'll come back and -- say you want 1,000 seated or 1,000 10 dancing or what -- you know, whatever. Tell me that kind of 11 thing, and then I'll come back and propose a size for that, 12 and then a size for maybe a kitchen to support that. But 13 tell me you want a kitchen and you want it to be a catering 14 kitchen, or you want it to be a full-blown institutional -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We want it to be a 16 preparation area with sinks, but no stoves. 17 MR. LEWIS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Catering type. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most of those events are 20 catered, and I don't think we want to have somebody cleaning 21 up a kitchen after somebody comes in there and does a 22 full-blown meal. 23 MR. LEWIS: Well, you get into a lot of expense 24 doing things like that as well. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't need commercial 2-25-08 wk 44 1 ovens and -- and six-burner Viking stoves, and zero walk-in 2 coolers and all. I mean, we -- it needs to be limited on 3 that, from my point of view. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about a 5 catering kitchen. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'm talking about a 7 preparation area where they bring in their food and have 8 counters to set things out on, so they can go from there to 9 the servers. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But you are going to need 11 refrigeration. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah, we'll need 13 refrigeration. We have a little bit of that already, but 14 refrigeration -- big freezer and a big cooler. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If everyone on the Court would 16 get their list of what they think it should be, and Bruce and 17 myself -- he and I can meet on Thursday and get it to Peter 18 by the end of the week. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure, if that works for 20 y'all. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we done here? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. 2-25-08 wk 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's fold this one up. 2 MR. LEWIS: Thank you, I appreciate it. It's an 3 exciting project; I appreciate being involved in it. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take care, Peter. 6 (Commissioners Court workshop adjourned at 2:20 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 3rd day of March, 2008. 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-25-08 wk