1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, March 10, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 10, 2008 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 4 concept of revision of plat for Tract 3, Theodore & Dorothea Oehler Estate; set public 5 hearing for same 8 6 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to purchase Case 800 Series motor grader 9 7 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 8 pursuing election for county-wide livestock open range law 10 9 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 10 enforcing Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations on several property subdivisions 11 along Wilson Creek Road; discussion of related issues concerning right-of-way along Wilson Creek 12 Road 22 13 1.3 Presentation from Committee concerning incorporation of the community of Comfort, and 14 consider/discuss, take appropriate action on support of same 49 15 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 16 request from Kerr County Democratic Party to request and seek formal approval for the 17 purpose of holding Kerr County Democratic Party Convention 58 18 1.5 Public Hearing for final plat of Infamous 1169 19 Ranch 66 20 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept final plat of Infamous 1169 Ranch 67 21 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 22 request from Jon Cradit, Facility Director of International Congress of Speleology, to rent 23 Union Church Building at a reduced rate 68 24 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and pest 25 control contracts 73 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) March 10, 2008 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 reappoint three commissioners for ESD #1 for 1-year terms 76 4 4.1 Pay Bills 77 5 4.2 Budget Amendments 85 4.3 Late Bills -- 6 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 93 7 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 93 8 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 approve consolidating polling locations for the Democratic run-off into four locations 106 10 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 11 determining interest in real estate acquisitions (Executive Session) --- 12 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 extend the position of Interim Chief Deputy (Executive Session) --- 14 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 coordination and work redistribution for administration of elections (Executive Session) --- 16 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 17 internal posting of the department head for Court Compliance Department (Executive Session) 109 18 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed 19 in executive session 112 20 --- Adjourned 118 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, March 10, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 10 time, Monday, March 10, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 11 Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. If you'd stand 13 and join me in a word of prayer, please, and then we'll do 14 the pledge of allegiance. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 18 of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter that is 19 not a listed agenda item, feel free to come forward at this 20 time and tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be 21 heard on a listed agenda item, we'd ask that you fill out a 22 participation form. They're located at the back of the room. 23 It's not essential that you do that; it just helps me to be 24 sure that when we get to that item, that I'm aware that there 25 is someone that wishes to be heard from the public. So, if 3-10-08 5 1 we get to an item and you haven't filled out a participation 2 form and you want to be heard, get my attention in some way, 3 and I'll see that you're heard. But right now, if there's 4 any member of the public that wishes to be heard on any 5 matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come 6 forward at this time. Seeing no one coming forward, we'll 7 move on. What do you have for us this morning, Commissioner 8 Baldwin? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not a thing. Well, just 10 glad it's rained. I lifted my burn ban this morning until 11 6:00 this evening. If I don't, my phone will be ringing off 12 the wall, so I might as well do it and get it over with. But 13 it's kind of -- it's kind of moist out there, and I think 14 there's enough moisture to last us through the day. And 15 the -- locally, it is track season, and the County Attorney 16 and I are spending our lives on the weekends with the 17 children, and it's a good thing. It's a good thing. I'm 18 just proud to be here and be a part of this group. You're 19 good men. Good men. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner 21 Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hard to beat that. I echo 23 all of that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks for the rain, and 3-10-08 6 1 let's move on. We got a big agenda. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I probably may want to 3 bring up right now -- I don't know if everyone heard, but 4 general Bill Bacon passed away Saturday evening. General 5 Bacon was a close friend of mine, great friend of Kerr County 6 and Kendall County, the community of Comfort. He had quite a 7 long illness, and he's been living in Texarkana most 8 recently. But the -- his service will be held in Schaetter 9 Funeral Home Wednesday at 1 o'clock. Visitation is tomorrow 10 evening. But Bill is a phenomenal man, one of the most 11 un-general-like generals I think I've ever come across, and 12 probably one of the most powerful generals the community has 13 ever had around. Very instrumental in Hill Country Veterans 14 Council, that forum. He was very high up in the Johnson 15 administration, probably the youngest brigadier general up to 16 that point in his career, and disagreed with the policy of 17 the Johnson administration and Secretary of Defense McNamara, 18 and resigned during that period because of that. But, a 19 phenomenal man. We'll miss him. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good man. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the only thing I have 23 is the same thing -- Commissioner Baldwin and I, I think, 24 both lifted our burn bans for today, and today only. It 25 appears that we're going to have enough moisture to get 3-10-08 7 1 through the day, but I don't think -- I won't extend mine 2 unless we get more rain tomorrow. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On burn ban, mine is lifted. I 4 think Bill lifted his, too. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did too. They're lifted 6 in all four. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm going to check around. I 8 know the -- at our place, we had over -- almost an inch and a 9 half, but north of Comfort -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now you're bragging. 11 Stepping over the line. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know why you get more 13 rain down there. It's -- I know it's not because of clean 14 living. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because he's on the hill; 16 it's higher. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know what the deal 18 is, but we can't get any out west. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But north of Comfort it didn't 20 rain much, so I'm probably with y'all, until 6 o'clock today 21 for the time being. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it for me. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on with our agenda, if we 25 might. Is Mr. Cradit available? I got an indication he 3-10-08 8 1 might be running a little bit late. That being the case, 2 we'll go on with some other items that we have. Let's move 3 to Item Number 7, if we might. Mr. Odom? Consider, discuss, 4 and take appropriate action for concept of revision of plat 5 for Tract 3, Theodore and Dorothea Oehler Estate, set forth 6 in Volume 4, Page 27, Plat Records, and set a public hearing 7 for the same. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This revision will be done 9 under the alternate plat process. It divides one 57.68-acre 10 lot into two lots, one of 32.07 acres and the other 11 26.6 acres. At this time, we ask that you set a public 12 hearing for April the 14th, 2008, at 9:30 a.m. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: April 8th? What's the 14 date? 15 MR. ODOM: April 14th. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: April 14th. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 20 public hearing for April 14th, 2008 -- did you say 9:00 or 21 10 a.m.? 22 MR. ODOM: 9:30. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 9:30. You didn't say either, did 24 you? 9:30 a.m. Question or discussion on the motion? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me just say, this has 3-10-08 9 1 nothing to do with me or anything I have an interest in. It 2 was part of the old Oehler family estate, which one of my 3 aunts or uncles may have some interest in, but nothing that I 4 have. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 6 on that motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by 7 raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 12 to Item 8; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 13 purchase a Case 800 series motor grader. 14 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have leased or been 15 allowed to use several motor graders on demos since we talked 16 last time. It is the consensus of the operators that the 17 Case 800 series would best serve the county. At this time, 18 we ask that you allow us to purchase the one shown in your 19 packet with the H.G.A.C. contract. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is within the budget? 21 MR. ODOM: Within my budget. It may be a little 22 bit over, but I have to live within that budget. I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much over? 24 MR. ODOM: 13,000. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a little. 3-10-08 10 1 MR. ODOM: Sir? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the 13 going to come 3 from? 4 MR. ODOM: Out of the 400. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Out of your equipment purchase 6 budget? 7 MR. ODOM: That's right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same line item. 9 MR. ODOM: Same deal. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 14 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 15 right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 20 to Item 9, which is consider, discuss, and take appropriate 21 action on pursuing election for county-wide livestock open 22 range law. Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda, 24 mainly because this -- we're having a bit of a mess in our 25 county when it comes to open range law. Best I can tell, 3-10-08 11 1 we've conducted seven elections from 1893 through 1940. Most 2 of those have been held in Precinct 4, which are 3 contradictory elections. There are -- based on what I can 4 look at going through the -- the laws, there are areas of the 5 county that are still -- do have open range for some animals. 6 Hogs are allowed open range still in most of the county, 7 sheep and goats in much of the county. It's a bit of a 8 strange bunch of -- but interesting reading, I should say. 9 The -- the elections have taken place over the past almost -- 10 well, 80 years, and I think that it would be beneficial to 11 all of our residents, and also to law enforcement and the 12 County Attorney's office, if we would do what most counties 13 have done, hold a more current open range law, and basically 14 declare all animals -- or there's no open range for any 15 livestock in Kerr County. I believe it has to be done by 16 precinct. I don't think we can do a county-wide election, 17 per se, but we could do simultaneous, four precinct 18 elections. 19 And one of the other problems is, these other 20 elections have all been by precinct; the boundaries have all 21 changed, so it's very likely there are areas of the county 22 that don't have any. I suspect that's why Precinct 4 has 23 been contradictory, because they are -- their boundaries have 24 changed, and one of the elections was handled on the common 25 school district boundary, whatever that happened to be. I'm 3-10-08 12 1 not sure what that was, but anyway... So, basically, I'm 2 asking that Rex look into this, with the goal of getting this 3 on our November ballot. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner? What 5 triggered this? Did you just wake up one morning and -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a lot about these 7 things. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- start thinking about the 9 Open Range Act, or did you run over somebody's sheep, or what 10 happened? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you share that with us? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. Sure. For some reason, 14 my constituents -- this may not surprise you -- bring this 15 issue up a lot to me. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it started out, I guess, 18 when I first became a commissioner. There was some -- over 19 in part of the Faltin ranch, some of those people had a 20 subdivision over there. They were up in arms about who is to 21 fence in and fence out, and there was -- most recently, it 22 came up on another -- related to another agenda item on 23 Wilson Creek. There was some discussion about it there. And 24 it just seems to me that it's a -- and at that -- in this 25 recent one, I talked to both Rex and Rusty -- I think I 3-10-08 13 1 talked to Rex; I know I talked to Rusty. And it would be 2 beneficial in their minds if they had one set of rules, 3 because going back and researching, no one knows what the law 4 actually is, because all the boundaries keep changing. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't tell by reading 6 this where we're -- where we're at. But I guess -- I guess 7 we could just do it like a -- a county-wide rule. You have 8 to do it by precinct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. And then 11 just clean it up? I mean, do you really have that problem 12 out there? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I -- 14 MR. EMERSON: You -- you first. You can go 15 county-wide, or you can go by precinct, either way. But it 16 does take the signature of 50 landholders. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Freeholders. 18 MR. EMERSON: Freeholders. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 20 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. You have to have 35 for 21 cattle. For cattle. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to have different -- 24 you have to have different amendments on the election. 25 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. 3-10-08 14 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One covers a certain type of 2 animal; sheep, goats, jennets, all that. The other one 3 covers cattle, and turkeys somehow got together in the same 4 deal. And then there's another one that covers the other 5 part, the hogs. But this is something that has been talked 6 about since even -- I guess Gary Chapman and I started 7 looking at this 15 years ago, that it needed to be set. 8 Because the -- the -- as Jonathan said, and I provided him 9 with copies of those elections, they're -- you can't tell 10 what's what in this county. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 90 percent of it is closed 13 where you have to fence out. But -- 14 MR. WILLIAMSON: Here's a copy of the statute. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- but it does need to be 16 cleaned up. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just -- 18 MR. WILLIAMSON: Have you got a copy? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not saying that I get up 20 in the morning and worry about it, but I -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, our problem is, if we do 22 estrays -- okay, if you have loose cattle or loose livestock 23 running around and you have to estray it, are you estraying 24 that animal from a fence-in location or a fence-out location? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it's loose, it's loose, 3-10-08 15 1 right? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but -- but if it's a 3 fence -- if it's a fence-out location, that animal can run 4 free anywhere except on a state highway. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you run across a lot of 6 jennets out there that are running loose? Turkeys and -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wait until you get to the 8 issue that now exotics are considered exotic livestock. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Livestock. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's -- anyway, it would 11 just make, I think, everyone's life a little bit easier if we 12 just went ahead and do it, and I'll -- 13 MR. WILLIAMSON: But how are you going to approach 14 it? Are you going to -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll identify yourself -- if 16 you're going to participate, we'd appreciate it if you gave 17 your name and address. 18 MR. WILLIAMSON: Sorry, Judge. I'm Bryant 19 Williamson, and I live at 375 Wilson Creek Road in Comfort. 20 Yeah, we were looking into this on Wilson Creek Road, because 21 it sort of came out on the agenda above our other part. And 22 to me, reading 143.071, the Petition for Election, the -- the 23 petition to have an election has to be brought forward by 35 24 freeholders. It's not -- unless that's what you intend to 25 do, is go out and campaign to have -- 3-10-08 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The agenda item is to -- 2 basically, it says the word "pursue," and to pursue, to me, 3 means putting this in the County Attorney's hands to come 4 back to us at a future date and tell us what needs to be 5 done. 6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How we do it, what needs to be 8 worded exactly like that, because it is very confusing as to 9 the livestock law as a separate piece of law, and be very 10 specific as to how things need to be done and which animals 11 and along that line. That's why. The agenda item is really 12 for the Court to request the County Attorney to come back to 13 the Court at such time as we can then get this on the 14 November ballot. 15 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. But nobody's come forward; 16 it was just brought up to be looked into, right? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 18 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay, that's all I want to know. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the things that -- I 20 didn't spend a lot of time on this thing, but I did read some 21 of it, and it -- and it appeared that at times, when the 22 public was voting on this issue, my understanding is they 23 were voting whether I should fence my livestock in or you 24 fence my livestock out. That's the issue. But it looked 25 like that the ballot read something like these lawyers do to 3-10-08 17 1 us these days; you're voting for to be against something. It 2 was -- is that -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them are that way, yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will we continue with that? 5 MR. EMERSON: Would you like me to make it as 6 confusing as possible? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 8 MR. EMERSON: Or straightforward? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, just -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Straightforward. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're going to go out -- 12 if I'm going to go out in public and try to sell this thing, 13 to do one thing or another, I need to know how it's going to 14 be worded. Is it -- you vote for to be against? 15 MR. EMERSON: I'll give you the basic statutory 16 information, and you can present it any way you want to 17 present it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And another interesting point 20 on this -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's confusing. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- related a little bit to 23 Wilson Creek is that the fact that whether you fence in or 24 fence out, you're still liable for what your livestock does. 25 Doesn't make any difference. You can be in an open range 3-10-08 18 1 area. If your livestock -- your cow goes up and/or your 2 jennet goes up and eats your neighbor's rose bush, you're 3 liable for that damage to that rose bush. If you hit it, 4 then you get in a little bit of gray area. You're probably 5 liable for that either way. I mean, even if it's in an area 6 that's marked. I mean, it's not a -- anything about -- it's 7 who puts up the fence, like you said. That's all that's 8 really at issue. It's no liability. It's not saying that 9 your grass can be eaten by someone else's animals or any of 10 that. So, that's where you get into a lot of confusion. And 11 I -- my research shows that -- and I only gave you, I think, 12 one or two of the election laws; there's quite a few of the 13 other ones, but they're all pretty similar. We're one of the 14 few counties that has not done this, maybe the only county 15 that hasn't done this in the state. So, that's why it's on 16 the agenda. I'll make a motion that we authorize the County 17 Attorney to pursue county-wide open range law, with the goal 18 of having it done by the November -- or on the November 19 ballot. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Any question or 23 discussion on the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just want to say, you know, 25 what he was saying where you're liable, it's kind of like 3-10-08 19 1 your Jersey bull getting in with the purebred Brangus. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They call that war. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could be. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Somebody wants to participate. Come 7 forward and give us your name and address, please. 8 MR. BOHNERT: I'm Henry Bohnert, and I have 9 co-ownership on some property on Wilson Creek Road, but I'm 10 also -- we also have property in Brazoria County, which is 11 down on the coast of Texas. And I talked to the County Judge 12 in Brazoria County on this very issue, and they are one of 13 the larger populated counties in the state, and they still -- 14 to his knowledge, they still have four county roads that are 15 in this same situation, where there is -- they do not have 16 any fence requirements, and it's basically considered as the 17 state was in the 1800's, where it's open range. Most of the 18 roads are fenced off, but they're not required to be. And 19 that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a different issue, 21 Henry, related to -- and I'll defer to the County Attorney on 22 this. A county road can -- if it's going through someone's 23 property, and you own both sides of the road, this doesn't 24 say I have to put up a fence on both sides, necessarily. I 25 still have a county road going through your property. 'Cause 3-10-08 20 1 you own all this property; the road's just going through it. 2 And lots of our roads are fenced anyway. But, anyway, that's 3 something the County Attorney needs to look at. It doesn't 4 necessarily say that. 5 MR. BOHNERT: Basically, that is the situation down 6 there, where they have properties where they have -- maybe 7 have property on both sides of the road, or else have the 8 lease rights -- the cattle grazing rights to both sides of 9 the road. Maybe don't lease it, but the cattle grazing rates 10 on both sides of the road. But the -- the issue is still 11 that they're not required, or if they -- if the State or the 12 County requires them to fence it off, the County compensates 13 them for that -- that right, you know, for that fencing 14 there. Because they're making changes that affects their 15 land value, their property, the way they can use it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's a different -- 17 that's something -- a different issue. That's not -- 18 MR. BOHNERT: Well, I'm just saying, he was telling 19 me that's what their situation was there. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only if there's two different 22 landowners that are on both sides of the road. If it's the 23 same owner on both sides of the road, it has nothing -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Ma'am, you wanted to be recognized 25 and say something? If you'll come to the podium, give us 3-10-08 21 1 your name and address? 2 MS. COOK: Sorry. Linda Cook. I live on Wilson 3 Creek Road. And just listening to the discussion, I was just 4 saying, I think what you're trying to do as far as the -- the 5 election, it's going to end up being same thing as he's 6 talking about in Brazoria, where you're going to force people 7 to change their land structure and value. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 9 MS. COOK: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I'm just saying, if the 11 road goes through, if the -- and I think it's -- Precinct 4 12 has the most. There's a majority of the roads out there -- 13 not many of the roads out there are county roads going 14 through properties where they don't fence in both sides. It 15 has nothing to do with the road. It's -- you have to fence 16 off from your neighbors, not off the road. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 18 MR. BOHNERT: The property that we own over there 19 on Wilson Creek Road, we -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about the Wilson 21 Creek issue here? If so, we want to do this on the next 22 agenda item. 23 MR. BOHNERT: I'm getting back to this thing -- we 24 do own property on both sides of that Wilson Creek Road, the 25 property that we own out there. That's what we're -- the 3-10-08 22 1 concern is. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MR. BOHNERT: So, what he's talking about, we 4 own -- you know, if you own property on both sides of the 5 road. And that's what I'm saying; we do own property on both 6 sides of that road. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Any other question 8 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 9 signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 14 to Item 10, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 15 on enforcing Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations on 16 several property subdivisions along Wilson Creek Road 17 concerning properties sold by Richard Bohnert, et al, to 18 various individuals, and some remaining unsold tracts, and 19 discussion of related issues concerning the right-of-way 20 along Wilson Creek Road. Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the backup somewhat -- 22 I mean, pretty much explains this, but this was before the 23 Court once before, and the issue -- it came before the Court 24 when Hill Country Co-Op went to Road and Bridge to get an 25 easement for a fiberoptic line under the right-of-way of 3-10-08 23 1 Wilson Creek Road. When we looked at that document -- or 2 Road and Bridge did, they brought it to the Court, because -- 3 and also the County Attorney, because there was -- an 4 easement was retained by Mr. Bohnert at the same time he was 5 subdividing, and that -- the purpose of the easement, from 6 what he's told me, was to take -- lay out a road, maybe. And 7 the easement covers the existing road, Wilson Creek Road, 8 plus an additional either 10 or 20 foot, depending on where 9 it is. Laying out -- laying out that road, even though the 10 road may not be built now, triggers platting, and -- and 11 that's kind of where we are. 12 They disagree with that, and asked to be put on the 13 agenda, 'cause we sent them a letter -- Road and Bridge sent 14 them a letter and gave them till February 1st to come in and 15 begin the platting process. I've visited with them and 16 Mr. Williamson, the Cooks. They live on that road and have 17 bought tracts from Mr. Bohnert, and their tracts -- all 18 tracts are over 20, or over -- over 10 acres, so there's -- 19 if they didn't have the easement, it would be exempt from 20 platting, but the easement triggers platting. And that's 21 kind of the County Attorney; he's the one that made that 22 determination. Anyway, I told Mr. Bohnert that if they 23 wanted to get on the agenda, we can look at it one more time, 24 and that's what we're doing. 25 The related issue about the open range, why it's 3-10-08 24 1 tied in here, there were cattle guards still -- there were a 2 total of five cattle guards from Highway 27 for the first, I 3 don't know, mile or so of Wilson Creek Road. The County's in 4 the process of upgrading that road, and we took out three of 5 the cattle guards. And I don't really understand why, but 6 they would like -- they have told me at one time or another 7 they would like some of those put back. And my -- and after 8 consulting with Leonard, he and I are in agreement; no, those 9 cattle guards are not necessary. They're dangerous, and 10 we're trying to get rid of them. And the reason the work is 11 all being done on this portion of Wilson Creek Road right now 12 is because of the development there, the Sunset Ridges 13 Subdivision, which is part of -- Mr. Bohnert sold that land 14 to the developer, and more homes are being built, and it's 15 just a general road upgrade, which I would have thought would 16 have made everybody happy, but that wasn't the case. So, I 17 don't know if Henry Bohnert or Richard Bohnert wants to 18 address this, and -- 19 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: I'm Richard Bohnert. I live 20 off of Weston Road, which is next to Wilson Creek Road, and I 21 also have some property on Wilson Creek Road. And when we 22 laid out that easement, we went to County Road and Bridge 23 Department and wanted to find out whether this road was going 24 to be there, or if there's a possibility of this road being 25 moved, Wilson Creek Road, which was formerly Roane Road. And 3-10-08 25 1 Truby Hardin told me that, "We cannot tell you that road will 2 not be changed or moved." As we were selling some of this 3 property, we wanted to guarantee ourselves the right to go -- 4 or access to our other property beyond what we were selling. 5 If this county road were ever abandoned or rerouted, that 6 property on both sides of this road would go back to the 7 original -- I mean, the current landowners, which would deny 8 us access through that property to get to our other property. 9 And when I discussed that with Truby Hardin, she told me -- 10 we wanted to just maintain the easement over the existing 11 county road, and she says, "Well, you should go 60 feet." 12 And there's another man in here that can verify that I was 13 told that, because he was told the same thing, and he's the 14 one that did the surveying. We went to our attorney and had 15 this written up. This was in 2004 when we started this, and 16 in 2005, in March is when this surveying was completed, and I 17 have the documentation for that. 18 Everything was fine as it was done, and County Road 19 and Bridge Department was aware of what was going on there. 20 And now, when the easement issue comes up for the phone 21 company to put in a fiberoptic line, County Road and Bridge 22 tells them where they should put that line. Us, as being the 23 landowners, feel like that -- that should be up to us where 24 this fiberoptic line is put. The County should not have the 25 authority to give a permit on our property for any kind of 3-10-08 26 1 easements to anybody. We -- that should be for us to give 2 those easements, and we should be approached for that. If 3 I'm out of line about feeling that way, then we're not in a 4 free country any more. We purchased that property. We feel 5 like we should be the ones to give any kind of easements that 6 are on that property to anyone else. The book that I 7 purchased in May of 2004 says nothing about easements to 8 require platting. Nowhere in this book can I find anything 9 that says you cannot retain an easement on a piece of 10 property unless you plat it. This is something after the 11 fact. This is four years later -- almost four years later. 12 So, I don't know if we can go on with the rest of our agenda, 13 or if we want to stop here, and then I will read a letter a 14 little bit later on some other issues. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Richard, let me make one point, 16 and I'll turn it over to the County Attorney. But the -- the 17 issue is not anything to do with Hill Country Co-Op. The 18 County -- once we saw the easement, we haven't talked to Hill 19 Country Co-Op again. And I would -- I don't disagree with 20 you that if I were Hill Country Co-Op, I would probably want 21 to go to you and the other people that own that property, but 22 that's a whole separate issue. That's not even on the table, 23 anything about that easement. 24 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Excuse me, Mr. Letz. That's 25 what you brought up a while ago; that's why this is on the 3-10-08 27 1 agenda. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on the -- I said the 3 County became aware of the easement you retained when Hill 4 Country Co-Op came to us. We haven't done anything with Hill 5 Country Co-Op anyway, and I'll turn it over to Rex with 6 regard to the language in our subdivision rules. 7 MR. EMERSON: Subdivision Rules, I think, Mr. 8 Bohnert, if you look under 1.02.C, that's where your 9 limitation is going to come in. 10 MR. WILLIAMSON: That's 2007. 11 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: I don't want to look at that 12 one. I want to look at the one that I brought. What does it 13 say there? 14 MR. EMERSON: Under 1.02.C, what it says is that -- 15 and I'm going to have to start at the top so that it makes 16 sense, but a "subdivision plat, as defined by 232.001 of the 17 Local Government Code, shall be required to be prepared by 18 the owner if a tract of land is subject to the jurisdiction 19 of the Commissioners Court set forth above, and is divided 20 into two or more parts to lay out" -- and you drop to C, and 21 it's "streets, including right-of-ways or easements, alleys, 22 squares, parks, or other parts of the tract, intended to be 23 dedicated to the public use or for the use of the purchasers 24 or owners of the lots fronting on or adjacent to the streets, 25 alleys, squares, parks or other parts." And anytime that you 3-10-08 28 1 have an easement laid out for the use of the owners or the 2 purchasers or the public, if you drop down to 1.03, which is 3 where you were looking for your exemption, 1.02.C knocks it 4 out of the exemption. 5 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Well, sir, mine does not say 6 that. This one that you have was after the fact. This here 7 was June the 10th of 2002. This is the one that I purchased 8 in 2004. 9 MR. EMERSON: Will you please read 1.02.C? 10 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: "Subdivision plat as defined 11 by Section 232.001 of the Local Government Code shall be 12 required to be prepared by the owner if a tract of land is 13 subject to the jurisdiction of the Commissioners Court set 14 forth above and is divided into two or more parts to lay out: 15 A, a subdivision of a tract, including an addition; B, lots; 16 or C, streets, alleys, squares, parks, or other parts of the 17 tract intended to be dedicated to public use or for the use 18 of purchasers or owners of lots fronting on or adjacent to 19 the streets, alleys, squares, parks, or other parts. A 20 division of a tract includes a division regardless of whether 21 it is made by using a metes and bounds description in a deed 22 of conveyance or in a contract for a deed, by using a 23 contract of sale or other executory contract to convey, or by 24 using any other method." 25 MR. EMERSON: Okay. And did you or did you not lay 3-10-08 29 1 out 60 foot to be used as a street for a right-of-way? 2 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: That is over the existing 3 road. 4 MR. EMERSON: That's not the question. The 5 question is, did you or did you not do that? And I think the 6 answer is, you did, 'cause that's what shows up on the -- the 7 deeds that are filed. 8 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: That's an easement. If that 9 county road -- 10 MR. EMERSON: For a street. 11 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: If that road is abandoned. 12 MR. WILLIAMSON: And I think the -- 13 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: The road's already there. 14 MR. EMERSON: Let me address something. I think 15 part of your understanding -- or part of the issue is a 16 miscommunication of the statutes, okay? Because for the 17 County to abandon that road or move that road, what the 18 statutes say in 251 of the Transportation Code is that every 19 abutting property owner has a property right in that road and 20 has a right to an objection to any change in the road. So, 21 the County can't just unilaterally walk in there and jerk 22 your road out from underneath of you. 23 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Then that should have been 24 addressed to me, I feel like, when I talked to the County 25 Road and Bridge. That's who I was directed to go and talk 3-10-08 30 1 to, and that is why it was done. That was not intentional on 2 our part. 3 MR. EMERSON: Well, and I don't think anybody has 4 said it was. 5 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: I didn't know about that. 6 MR. EMERSON: I haven't received any information 7 that says it was. This was brought to me a couple weeks ago 8 to say, "Does it or does it not fall within the rules?" 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, and the issue on this is 10 -- and I don't -- I think everyone's -- no one's -- 11 everyone's telling the truth. The question -- it depends on 12 what question was asked to Road and Bridge. The question you 13 said was asked was, "Could it be done?" And the answer is, 14 "Yes, it can be done," but the next step as to how it's done 15 was never addressed. 16 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: It was addressed that we did 17 not have to plat that property. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't know about that. 19 I mean, that's -- I'm not sure about that. I don't know what 20 was told about that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall hearing that part of 22 the statement earlier. What I recall you saying was you were 23 directed to Road and Bridge and you said, "I want to be 24 guaranteed that this county road will be there." Answer, "We 25 cannot guarantee you that." Next question, "Well, how do I 3-10-08 31 1 protect myself if you can't guarantee me that?" Answer, 2 "Reserve a roadway width of 60 feet." And you did that, 3 correct? 4 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: That is correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, the issue -- I didn't hear 6 platting, yes, no, or the issue even being raised. 7 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: That was the reason we were 8 there talking to them. We were going to keep -- this is when 9 we were selling this property, and that's how come I got this 10 book. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: And Truby Hardin went over 13 this book with me. She knew what we were doing. I showed 14 her some -- they weren't actual surveys at that time. It was 15 surveys that we had made on the computer off of the original 16 survey from when we purchased that property. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Did the discussion with Truby Hardin 18 as I detailed just a bit ago -- is that the way it occurred? 19 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: It did involve whether or not 20 we had to plat the property or not. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me exactly what was said, how 22 it involved whether we had to plat the property. What did 23 you say to her with reference to platting? 24 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Sir, that's been a long time 25 ago to remember exactly what I said. But I do know that we 3-10-08 32 1 talked about whether this property had to be platted or not, 2 and she said as long as have you 200 feet or more on this 3 county road or public road, it did not require platting. And 4 that's when I was asking, "Is this road always going to be 5 there? Can it not be moved?" And she says, "We cannot tell 6 you that road will always be there." 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: And so then I says, well, in 9 order for these landowners to have access -- or for us to 10 have access through -- through these landowners' property to 11 our property back in the back, which we still own some of 12 that property, that we would have access to it. And I asked 13 her, "Can we keep an easement over there?" We would like to 14 keep an easement over the county road, just the width that 15 was there. And that's when she said, "You should make that 16 60 feet." 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And that was the end of the 18 discussion? 19 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, trying to 22 move along, I've talked to Mr. Bohnert numerous times about 23 this, and I've told him -- I said, "The solution is simple." 24 In my mind. He can either abandon the easement, or he can 25 plat it. And by abandoning the easement -- or the third 3-10-08 33 1 option is he can transfer the easement to the County, and 2 that's the option that I told him the County would prefer. 3 We would love to have a 60-foot right-of-way along the road, 4 'cause it's only 40 foot, and it's a pretty heavily traveled 5 road. That's what we would like. But I said we can't -- 6 we're not going to -- we can't make you. We aren't going to 7 do anything along those lines. You can abandon the easement, 8 and in which case, you're going to fall under the 9 Transportation Code, and you're protected, or you can plat 10 it. I mean, those are the three options. And, you know, I 11 have a preference for one from the County standpoint, but 12 that's your decision. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happens if he abandons 14 the easement? What happens to the issue of ingress and 15 egress to his property that's way back? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a county road. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the county road goes 18 all the way to your property? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reserve piece in the 21 back? 22 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Just a moment. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 3-10-08 34 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Mr. Bohnert? 2 You had a question, ma'am? 3 MS. COOK: Yeah. It's not just Henry. It's not 4 just Henry's issue any more. I mean, the easement that 5 you're asking us to just turn over to the County is our land. 6 It's him and Bryant's land; it's Gary and Marybeth's land. 7 This is -- you know, you're just asking us to -- "Hey, here, 8 take 60 foot." I don't think that's quite right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then, don't do it. 10 MS. COOK: I don't intend to. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean -- but I also want 12 the people to be aware that -- how we maintain that road, and 13 you're very concerned about drainage. Drainage is greatly 14 affected by how much right-of-way we have. So -- 15 MS. COOK: Make it private. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a county road; you can't 17 make it -- well, we could make it private. 18 MS. COOK: We own it, the whole thing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't own the road, ma'am. 20 You own the property under the road. It's a county road. 21 MS. COOK: Okay, but I'm not going to give you the 22 property under the road. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That part was pleasant. 25 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: I'd like to read a letter, or 3-10-08 35 1 some comments that we have here. I'm representing a case 2 concerning improvements in changes to Wilson Creek Road from 3 State Highway 27 to the west property line of Leroy Bohnert. 4 The improvements and changes in concern are across the 5 properties owned by Richard Bohnert, Henry Bohnert, John and 6 Katherine Merritt, Jesse and Linda Cook, Gary and Marybeth 7 Simpkins, and Bryant and Kim Williamson. None of the 8 property owners were notified by County officials of the 9 impending improvements and changes being made. The change 10 that affected these properties most was removal of three 11 cattle guards. These cattle guards were used in conjunction 12 with existing fences to separate grazing rights between 13 property owners. Other improvements were made to redirect 14 the flow of runoff water. In order to obtain these 15 improvements, changes were made on adjacent private property 16 without notification or consent of the owners. We believe 17 there is a motive to these changes other than normal road 18 maintenance or improvements. We have not been given any 19 reason as to why the cattle guards were removed, and we 20 initially were told by phone -- or I was initially told by 21 phone conversation with Commissioner Jonathan Letz they would 22 be reinstalled. We have all since been notified via e-mail 23 there are no plans to reinstall cattle guards. Our 24 properties have been adversely affected, and we believe we 25 should be fairly compensated for the changes we are forced to 3-10-08 36 1 make as a result of the county changes. These changes 2 include the installation of additional fencing in order to 3 contain livestock that was previously contained by the cattle 4 guards. We were approached by Commissioner Letz for a 5 60-foot wide right-of-way for Wilson Creek Road. We propose 6 selling the property to the County at fair market value plus 7 the cost of fencing installation. If this is not feasible, 8 we will consider counteroffers, provided the property owners 9 will be fairly compensated for the use of their land. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only -- Richard, and I 11 think really Mr. Williamson -- I think the only piece of 12 property that's not fenced currently is the piece that 13 Mr. Williamson owns. That's about 100 feet Mr. Williamson 14 has. 15 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All the other property's 17 already been fenced on both sides of the road. 18 MR. WILLIAMSON: What I'm going to have to do is, 19 instead of at my leisure, I've got to go ahead and fence it, 20 because we've got, like, 20 head of cows coming out to the 21 road, and they're going to wander up to the subdivision now, 22 so I have to do it immediately. It's not like -- I was 23 planning on doing it in the spring, later. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've got to fence them anyway 25 under the current law for Kerr County. In Precinct 3, cattle 3-10-08 37 1 have to be fenced in. 2 MR. WILLIAMSON: I thought cattle guards was 3 considered part of fencing. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You own the property on the 5 other side? 6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes, we do. It goes all the way 7 to that fence. That goes up to Jay Colvin's property. It's 8 actually on my land. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're saying you have -- 10 you want your cows to be on the county road? 11 MR. WILLIAMSON: It's an easement. I can't graze 12 on the easement? 13 MR. EMERSON: I couldn't answer that without 14 looking at the statute. I don't know. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't want the liability, 16 but that's a question for Rex to look at. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, when we first came 18 out there years ago looking at the property, we were standing 19 out there with the cows in the middle of the road. People 20 would drive slowly down the road, and it made a nice, 21 leisurely -- nice little place to live. Now, since we've 22 taken the cattle guards out, those three, people are zipping 23 up and down the road, people are throwing beer cans all over 24 the place, and it's not one of those things where people have 25 to really -- you know, when you hit a cattle guard, you sort 3-10-08 38 1 of -- "This is somebody's property." You got to respect it. 2 They just think it's a county road; they just throw trash 3 everywhere, you know. It's really inconvenient for us all. 4 It is -- 5 MS. COOK: Trashy. 6 MR. WILLIAMSON: It's making it a different way of 7 life. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The subdivision that Mr. -- 9 that Sunset Ridges is what's changed the property, not the 10 cattle guards. It's the increased traffic. 11 MR. WILLIAMSON: It's increased traffic, but 12 there's -- nobody lives up there. It hasn't been developed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a lot of trucks going 14 up there. 15 MR. WILLIAMSON: Not any more. I mean, when they 16 were working on it. When they were working on it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This issue is, unfortunately, 18 about subdivision rules, and I think the options I laid out 19 are what we -- 20 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. If we take back the 60-foot 21 easement, we can just go back to the 40-foot and the 22 50-foot-wide easement, and we go back to the status-quo, 23 right? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 25 MR. WILLIAMSON: I'll get my cattle guard back? 3-10-08 39 1 MS. COOK: Where are the cattle guards? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably at the Road and Bridge 3 yard. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Road and Bridge yard, 5 probably. 6 MR. WILLIAMSON: I could use that pipe to make my 7 fence. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You didn't own it. I think 9 probably the County probably put that cattle guard there. 10 MR. WILLIAMSON: It was in my dirt, so... 11 (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nice try, Bryant. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Am I just hearing this is all about 14 the world's common denominator, m-o-n-e-y? Is that -- 15 MR. WILLIAMSON: No. No. No, honestly, it's not. 16 It deals with the way I like to live my life. I like having 17 the cows being able to go out and grazing up and down the -- 18 the side of the road. I don't have to worry about people 19 running up and down the road a million miles an hour and 20 endangering me, or the cows. And they've been there, you 21 know, since I don't know when. Long before I was born. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Which of those three options gets 23 you back closest to where you were? 24 MR. WILLIAMSON: Restoring the cattle guards, 25 whatever it takes to do that. So -- which would be, 3-10-08 40 1 probably -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That was not one of the three 3 options. 4 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. It would probably be going 5 to -- dismissing the 60-foot easement. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. WILLIAMSON: And that's just my opinion. I 8 mean, there's other people involved. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's a matter between you 10 and your neighbors, then, I guess. 11 MR. WILLIAMSON: So, y'all will leave it up to us 12 to make that decision? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can say -- I mean, the road 14 itself, I defer to Road and Bridge Department and safety 15 issues. Those are paramount to me. 16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And having livestock on that 18 road, with the increased traffic in the subdivision, is a 19 safety risk. 20 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that it's a -- 22 that's -- safety is my number one concern. 23 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. Well, can we do this? Can 24 we at least put up speed limit signs? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 3-10-08 41 1 MR. WILLIAMSON: And put -- like, we ride horses up 2 and down the road -- "Cattle Crossing," just to make sure 3 that people are aware that it is still an agricultural area? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can put a cattle crossing 5 sign up, 'cause I understand Mr. Bohnert runs cattle on some 6 of these -- on some of y'all's properties for ag reasons. I 7 think we can do that. And there are various -- many areas in 8 the county where -- you know, I don't know whether it's a 9 good idea or bad, but cows or livestock are moved down county 10 roads from one property to another. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That happens on Fall Creek 12 Road all the time. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's fine. We can put 14 speed limit, we can put cattle crossing. 15 MS. COOK: Slow them down, really running up that 16 road. 17 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: We won't have a problem with 18 removing that easement, but the reasoning for moving those 19 cattle guards, to me, that is not justified, that it is a 20 safety concern. I have a letter here -- or an act, Senate 21 Bill Number 66, that took effect in September of 2007. 22 Unless Kerr County does not fall under Texas state law. 23 Relating to cattle guards constructed on county roads. Be it 24 enacted by the Legislature of the State of Texas. Section 1, 25 the heading to Section 251.009, Transportation Code, is 3-10-08 42 1 amended to read follows: Construction of a -- of cattle 2 guards on county roads; offense. Used to have in there, "in 3 certain counties." That has been deleted. Section 2, 4 Subsection (a). Section 251.009, Transportation Code, is 5 amended to read as follows: The commissioners court of a 6 county may authorize the construction of cattle guards on a 7 county road of any class. A cattle guard authorized under 8 this section is not an obstruction of the road. 9 These cattle guards were put in by the County. 10 They were up to county specs. They were not an obstruction 11 on that road. That is the reason they were taken out, what 12 Jonathan Letz just said. According to the State, they should 13 not be removed because of that. They are not considered an 14 obstruction. Subchapter A, Chapter 143, Agricultural Code, 15 is amended by adding Section 143.003 to read as follows: 16 Cattle on county road with cattle guard. Cattle on a county 17 road are not considered to be running at large if the county 18 road separates two tracts of land under common ownership or 19 lease. We fall under that category. We own property on both 20 sides of the county road. Contains a cattle guard 21 constructed as authorized under Section 251.009, 22 Transportation Code, that serves as part of the fencing of 23 the two tracts. This act takes effect September 1st, 2007. 24 And it has the signatures of all of the state authorities on 25 there, and that includes Governor Rick Perry. 3-10-08 43 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't mean a whole 2 lot around here, but -- 3 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Because -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not -- I'm not a real 5 big fan of his, so that doesn't mean anything. 6 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Doesn't matter. It's a state 7 law. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's just -- yeah, I 9 heard all that. Actually, I'm in agreement with you, 10 personally, that I don't see cattle guards as an obstruction 11 or -- or whatever the verbiage was there. They're there for 12 a reason, and I kind of like the reason myself. I kind of 13 like it that way. But the County decided years ago that in 14 certain places, that they are -- excuse me -- that they can 15 be dangerous. And I wanted to speak to your idea about 16 neighbors trashing your roads and how -- how people move in 17 and -- well, Bruce and I grew up in this county, and I have 18 fought against that for years, of letting other people come 19 into our county to trash it up. And I'm -- I know y'all have 20 been here over two or three weeks, but the only way I have 21 found to do it is to put "one-way" signs up all going out. 22 (Laughter.) I never could get the State to do that. But I 23 think your easement issue is -- borders on ridiculous, in my 24 opinion, but I like the cattle guards. I like cattle guards. 25 I think that they're there for a reason, and they do -- they 3-10-08 44 1 do what -- do what they're supposed to do. And it just 2 appears to me that that -- that would be a good compromise 3 for all of us, if we put your silly cattle guards back in and 4 you give up the easement. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't -- and I -- when I 6 talked to Richard earlier, and I did tell him -- I said, 7 "We'll look into putting the cattle guards back if that's 8 what y'all need or want." And I probably shouldn't have used 9 the word "want," because I tried -- after I looked at the 10 roads, all the properties are fenced. They're all -- it's -- 11 the reason the cattle guards were there -- I think Richard 12 will agree with this -- is when the Roane family owned it, 13 they owned both sides of the road. The entire north side of 14 the road has been sold to different people, and the south 15 side of the road, or the -- you know, so the reason for the 16 cattle guards is no longer there. The only person who 17 doesn't have it fenced is Mr. Williamson has a 100-foot 18 stretch. And the only spot that those cows can go outside of 19 his property are onto the county road right-of-way or the 20 easement right there. He does own the property, so there's a 21 little bit of bar ditches; there's some property there. And 22 I don't have a huge problem putting in -- Leonard doesn't 23 have a huge problem putting cattle guards back. One would go 24 back, the only one. It would be somewhere on the upper side 25 of your property, because you're the only one that doesn't -- 3-10-08 45 1 doesn't fence your property all the way. And, you know, I 2 don't have a real problem; Leonard doesn't have a problem 3 with that. We've talked about that. It doesn't make a lot 4 of -- you know, of sense to me. And the liability issue, I 5 think, is -- but that's your personal decision there. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's the issue, I'd 7 say put the cattle guard back. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That one. And, you know, it 9 would be the one, I guess, right at the curve, basically, or 10 right after the curve. 11 MR. HENRY BOHNERT: That cattle guard that is on 12 the -- the northwest -- the northeast side of our property, 13 which would be Leroy Bohnert's, is adjoining our property 14 there. That cattle guard is also the property line for -- 15 for us, for our livestock. We own property on both sides of 16 the road from Highway 27 also, and part of our concern is, if 17 they're going to take -- you know, if you're -- if the 18 actions were to take the cattle guards out up there, 19 eventually they're probably going to be looking at taking the 20 cattle guards out down by Highway 27, and -- and the -- you 21 know, along our property line there, and so that's part of 22 what our concern is also. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think once all that property 24 is fenced, my recommendation would be, yes, take all of them 25 out. But it's not fenced below -- the last three cattle 3-10-08 46 1 guards still are all open. No one's put a fence up there, 2 and we're not going to try to encourage or make someone put 3 up a fence. That's why we left the cattle guards in place. 4 We were under the impression Mr. Williamson was going to 5 fence his property. Maybe we -- that was a misinformation, I 6 guess. 7 MR. HENRY BOHNERT: Well, from our standpoint, you 8 know, after some of the stuff that's come out here, we 9 realize that -- that the -- the easement over the existing 10 county road is not necessary, and we'll be more than willing 11 to remove that easement. But the county -- you know, the 12 county road will still revert back to its original status 13 there. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 15 MR. HENRY BOHNERT: Which was a 50-foot easement 16 and a 40-foot. 17 MR. WILLIAMSON: 40-foot. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, Wilson Creek Road. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not disappearing; it's going to 20 be a county road. 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: I just want to clarify one thing. 22 I am going to bring in some fencing, but it's going to be 23 left open for the cattle to go in and out. I just don't want 24 you to think I'm not doing the fence part of that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only question I have is, I 3-10-08 47 1 am going to -- because we are in a -- I want the County 2 Attorney to look into that a little bit as to who's going to 3 be liable for livestock on a county deeded right-of-way. 4 Because, I mean, it's -- we're -- the County has a deeded 5 right-of-way under the road. It's not a prescriptive 6 easement. You own the property; we have a right-of-way. 7 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we're responsible for 9 livestock being on that road, -- 10 MR. WILLIAMSON: I can understand. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then cattle guards aren't 12 going back in. 13 MS. COOK: Right-of-way. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if the County has no 15 liability for open -- the livestock on the county 16 right-of-way, that's -- you know, I don't have a problem 17 putting one cattle guard back in. That will segregate the 18 cattle guard to the south of your property to north of your 19 property. 20 MR. WILLIAMSON: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we pretty well thrashed 22 that one out? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, one more. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this the last word? 25 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: Yes. 3-10-08 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. RICHARD BOHNERT: The County is not liable. We 3 had a cow that was hit when all of that was open, and I was 4 notified -- notified by one of the deputies. And the people 5 that ran into the cow, we never found out who that was. They 6 never came forward or whatever, and we took care of that. We 7 -- we were notified by one of the deputies that was 8 patrolling that area. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'll rely on the County 10 Attorney. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. WILLIAMSON: One more thing -- just one more 13 thing. When they're doing the work on the road to the north 14 side of us, we have some fencing there, and I'd like if we 15 could identify the pens that they covered over for our 16 boundary markers in the road. Because Doug had mentioned 17 something about us having to move one of our fences. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll -- 19 MR. WILLIAMSON: -- I need to have that clarified. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard's here. We can check 21 into that. 22 MR. ODOM: I'll check. I want to say that that was 23 a 60-foot, either 10 foot behind it or 20 foot with that 24 easement that Mr. Bohnert put in. That's -- 25 MR. WILLIAMSON: This is up -- the north part of 3-10-08 49 1 it. I believe we're in the middle of a 40-foot easement up 2 there. It would be 20 foot. 3 MR. ODOM: I'll check and see what Doug wants to 4 do. 5 MR. WILLIAMSON: That'd be great, thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move to our 9:30 timed 7 item. What do you say? That's a presentation from the 8 committee concerning incorporation of the community of 9 Comfort, and consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 10 on support of same. Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be brief on this one. 12 It's a -- a community committee was formed in Comfort to look 13 at incorporation, and then kind of a fact-finding as to what 14 that means. And one of those committee members, Paul Urban, 15 has a brief, I think, presentation for us as to what they 16 found. If -- and what they're asking, basically, there's a 17 resolution in the back that also says Kerr County will 18 continue to provide services for a reasonable time within our 19 portion if they do the incorporation. Our portion is very, 20 very limited; it's basically a 1,000-foot strip on Highway 27 21 from the county line to Wilson Creek. Wilson Creek's popular 22 today. But that is -- it's just past Little League field, is 23 where that is. Paul? 24 MR. URBAN: Actually, Jon, there's another small 25 portion up on I-10 where it goes into Kerr County. 3-10-08 50 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MR. URBAN: But, Judge Tinley and Commissioners, 3 thank you for allowing me to be here this morning. I'm Paul 4 Urban, and I serve on a committee that was formed by the 5 Comfort Chamber of Commerce to study the type of 6 self-governance available to communities. Our committee's 7 completed our studies, and we're ready to present our 8 findings to the community. We plan to do so in town hall 9 meetings, with the first meetings being later today. Our 10 findings indicate that incorporation is really the only 11 viable means of self-governance. By incorporating, we can 12 control our own destiny and provide our citizens with a more 13 responsive form of government. 14 The committee has identified an area to recommend a 15 city limits, and a portion of that area, as Jon indicated, 16 lies in Kerr County. We do face some challenges, though, 17 such as how to finance the services provided by Kendall and 18 Kerr County in the proposed city limits. Texas Election Code 19 only allows two elections a year. That means that we would 20 not have a city council in place until at least six months 21 after a vote for incorporation. It is conceivable that it 22 could be 9 to 18 months after incorporation vote before the 23 city would begin realizing any revenue from franchise fees, 24 permits, sales tax, et cetera. We will, however, incur some 25 expenses before and after the incorporation vote. The 3-10-08 51 1 committee has identified interlocal agreements with our 2 present governing bodies as a priority for our success. The 3 interlocal agreements will provide our citizens the assurance 4 that they will continue to receive the services they have 5 until the city is able to take over those responsibilities. 6 The committee has studied the budgets of area 7 incorporated cities similar in size. We've made income and 8 expense projections. Our projections indicate that the city 9 should be able to take over the primary services of road and 10 bridge and law enforcement within ten years. The area of 11 Kerr County included in our city limits is rather small, and 12 will affect only a few residents at this time. However, you 13 are providing services to these residents at this time, and 14 it's possible that you would be relieved of those in the 15 future. I'm here today to request you approve a resolution 16 whereby you will continue to provide the services to the area 17 of Comfort located in Kerr County, if Comfort were to 18 incorporate, until the City's able to assume those services. 19 Thank you for your consideration of this request. I do have 20 some maps here that show the area of Kerr County included. 21 Would you like to see those? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like to see those. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Urban? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one. 3-10-08 52 1 MR. URBAN: Yes, sir? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I applaud your efforts to 3 do what you're doing, Mr. Urban. I wish you great success. 4 I do have one question, however, and that has to do with Kerr 5 County's initiative to provide a wastewater system for Center 6 Point and the transmission line that would go through your 7 proposed corporate limits to the wastewater treatment 8 facility, which I believe is located on I-10. My question to 9 you is, do you see -- or foresee any negative implications to 10 our initiative and our -- our plan for that sewer system that 11 might result from your incorporation, and if so, what are 12 they? 13 MR. URBAN: I see none whatsoever, Commissioner 14 Williams. I think it'll be a great boost for Comfort to have 15 that coming into our community. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 MR. URBAN: I wish I knew more about that. And our 18 committee is not -- our purpose is to educate our community 19 on the pros and the cons. We are not out actively pursuing 20 incorporation, but we want -- we feel like it's time to 21 educate our community and let them make a choice on whether 22 or not they want to pursue that issue or not. But the -- the 23 wastewater, I think, is a great thing for us. Every -- I 24 think it would be an economic boon. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was the correct answer, 3-10-08 53 1 believe me. (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A couple of other points. And 3 part of the reason a small amount of Kerr County is included, 4 based on the population, the -- the area limit is 4 square 5 miles. That's the maximum that Comfort can incorporate, and 6 they're at 3.99 -- 93, I believe. They're -- you know, my 7 feeling is that it would probably make sense to put a little 8 bit more onto -- into that area of Kerr County. And that -- 9 and the boundaries may change slightly. 10 MR. URBAN: And the map is -- you have the whole -- 11 our whole presentation there. The map is about five or six 12 pages back. And, remember, this is all just proposed, the 13 education process. If the city were to incorporate, we have 14 to have a surveyed area, but it appears to us, because of the 15 Election Code, that it would be -- November would be the 16 earliest time we could have an incorporation election, so we 17 would have time to learn more about the project you asked 18 about and possible changes to those boundaries. As you know, 19 the area affected in Kerr County on Highway 27 is primarily 20 ag land right now. And up I-10, the same. We're talking 21 about 500 feet off of the right-of-way on either side would 22 be in the city limits or in the ETJ, so I don't think going 23 out that way would involve a lot of other residents at this 24 time. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As our project progresses, 3-10-08 54 1 and if you're successful with incorporation, we'll be more 2 than pleased to meet with you. And -- 3 MR. URBAN: We'd like to be kept -- we'd like to be 4 kept educated on -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We will. 6 MR. URBAN: -- on that project. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I assure you, we will do 8 that. 9 MR. URBAN: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You had -- the question is, 11 today, will Kerr County continue with the services. What -- 12 in your mind's eye, what do you see those services are? You 13 mentioned road and bridge? 14 MR. URBAN: Road and bridge, law enforcement. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Law enforcement. 16 MR. URBAN: Well, in Kendall County, they provide 17 EMS protection. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 MR. URBAN: I'm sure you provide some of -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Emergency services. 21 MR. URBAN: Emergency services, animal control, 22 normal county services that those residents are receiving 23 today. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. URBAN: And we would negotiate interlocal 3-10-08 55 1 agreements on those. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was my -- another 3 question. We're talking about an interlocal agreement, Rex, 4 between Kerr County and City of Comfort to provide those 5 services. 6 MR. EMERSON: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For a -- and the only thing 8 that's bugging me is, you mentioned that the -- provide the 9 services as far as 10 years out? 10 MR. URBAN: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How is that decision made? 12 Whether it's 10 -- I mean, I'm sure it has something to do 13 with your community being able to provide enough money to -- 14 MR. URBAN: We came up -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- pay for the services, but 16 do you get -- is there a magical number out there? Or do we 17 set a time frame to keep you under pressure to be sure to 18 raise your money, or, I mean, how is that done? 19 MR. URBAN: My -- what I've learned is that we 20 negotiate the best deal that we can, based on the best 21 projections that we have. We're hopeful -- and our 22 projections are in that packet that I've given you -- that we 23 can assume all those services within a 10-year period of 24 time. And the County Attorney, I guess, would -- would be 25 able to tell us, can this Court bind future courts by those 3-10-08 56 1 agreements? I'm not sure. That's part of the education 2 process. What we're trying to do now is that when we make a 3 presentation to the public, that we can tell them that we 4 visited with each county government, and that they have 5 provided us some direction on that, yes, interlocal 6 agreements would be available to us to continue services 7 until a point in time that the city could take those over. 8 In Kendall County, they're more than willing to extend that 9 -- those agreements, just because they will be relieved of 10 far more -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 12 MR. URBAN: -- than you in the event we are able to 13 incorporate. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. I just -- you know, I 15 have to think of the people I represent up here in Kerrville. 16 You know, are they -- are they willing to continue sending 17 their money to some other community, open-ended? Or -- 18 MR. URBAN: Oh, I understand, and I think the 19 interlocal agreements would have to be defined. And we're 20 proposing out to 10 years based on our projections at this 21 point in time. And, granted, the news about the Texas 22 Election Code, we may have to go back and redo some of our 23 projections, but we need to start educating our people to 24 give them a choice whether we're even going to follow through 25 with this. 3-10-08 57 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 MR. URBAN: And so we will be re -- we'll go back 3 and redo our projections based on -- and we've just learned 4 that in the last 45 days. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 6 MR. URBAN: So we've decided to proceed, just to 7 see if the community has any interest in trying to learn 8 or -- educating themselves. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've been down there 10 dealing with this kind of stuff for a long, long time. 11 MR. URBAN: Well, I used -- I used the City of 12 Ingram as a good example. I mean, they did it, and -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 MR. URBAN: -- have done it successfully, in my 15 opinion. We've used their budgeting. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 MR. URBAN: You know, I -- I don't want to express 18 my position on it, but I'm sure looking forward to the 19 meeting so that we can -- but I -- and I think Commissioner 20 Letz has kept y'all apprised on some of this previously, and 21 I appreciate that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Urban? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval of the 25 resolution as submitted. 3-10-08 58 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the resolution as requested and submitted. 4 Question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of that 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 10 for being here, Mr. Urban. 11 MR. URBAN: Thank you very much. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include any cattle 13 guards or anything? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No cattle guards in this deal. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not at this point. 16 MR. URBAN: I am a new resident to Kerr County, and 17 I'm vitally interested in this open range issue. Thank 18 y'all. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out. Get security in here. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's -- let's go to our 9:45 21 timed item. We're catching up a little bit. Consider, 22 discuss, and take appropriate action on request from Kerr 23 County Democratic Party to request and seek formal approval 24 from the Court for use of Room 123, County Court at Law 25 Courtroom, from 1 p.m. until 4 p.m. on Saturday, March the 3-10-08 59 1 29th, 2008, for the purpose of holding the Kerr County 2 Democratic Party Convention. Ms. Larimer, thank you for 3 being here today. 4 MS. LARIMER: Thank you. I am Dot Larimer; I'm the 5 Democratic Party Chair for Kerr County. And you will notice 6 on the request that I submitted that I said I would take less 7 than one minute. I'm sorry to say -- well, maybe happy to 8 say that I may have to take a little longer than one minute. 9 In looking over the size of the court and remembering, having 10 used that courtroom in the past, I am concerned that it might 11 not be large enough for us to hold our county convention 12 there, so I'm looking for some alternatives. When we first 13 were planning the convention, we were told to plan for 14 doubling the -- well, for the election itself, actually, to 15 double or even triple the turnout, so we planned for four 16 times the turnout. And as you may have seen in the 17 newspapers, it's ten times the turnout, and we have a lot of 18 interest in this convention. We have encouraged not only the 19 delegates -- we have about 150 delegates that will be coming 20 -- not only the delegates, but the alternates to come, and 21 all of our meetings are open to the public, so I'm guessing 22 the turnout's going to be quite large. And so we're asking 23 if we can move to one of the upstairs rooms. I understand 24 the Republicans are there for the -- for their convention. 25 By law, it has to be on the 29th. But since there are two 3-10-08 60 1 courtrooms, perhaps we could use the other one in the 2 afternoon. And I don't know which one that would be, and I 3 assume you would inform me of that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Larimer, I was going to make 5 this inquiry of you. Based upon what I was informed was the 6 participation at your precinct conventions, it occurred to me 7 that maybe the County Court at Law was not going to be large 8 enough, even though it had been in past years. What we have 9 available upstairs, the Republicans have Courtroom Number 1 10 upstairs. I believe that's from 9:00 until 3:00, that's 11 committed. The other courtroom, District Courtroom Number 2, 12 is not committed, to my knowledge. I think it's just a tad 13 bit smaller in terms of capacity than Courtroom 1, but 14 it's -- it's the only other one we got available upstairs. I 15 think there's adequate room out in the -- out in the foyer 16 area for you to handle your registration. And it occurs to 17 me that's probably what we need to do, is plug you in for 18 Courtroom Number 2. 19 MS. LARIMER: Okay. Let me ask one quick question, 20 in case you might know the answer to this. If we have more 21 than what is the legal capacity of the courtroom, is there 22 somebody who's going to be there to say, "You can't have all 23 your people in there"? Or do we have to monitor that 24 ourselves? I understand that it's about 140 persons for 25 that -- 3-10-08 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I, frankly -- I, frankly, don't 2 know. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think in the past, Judge, 4 the Republican Party using the 216th courtroom has provided 5 whatever ancillary services they needed, like cleanup and -- 6 and I don't recall ever having a need for law enforcement 7 there. They get rowdy, but not that rowdy. 8 MS. LARIMER: I didn't mean rowdy, necessarily. I 9 meant having to do with the number -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand what you're 11 saying. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fire code. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The fire code is the issue. 14 And also, I don't think that the -- the Republican convention 15 will go to 3 o'clock, but who knows? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would -- how long do you think 17 your convention will last? 18 MS. LARIMER: We had planned 1:00 to 4:00, and I 19 didn't expect it to last any longer than two hours, but 20 there's so much interest, and a lot of people are new to the 21 process. That sometimes requires additional time just to 22 explain what needs to happen and so forth. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we -- if it went from 24 3:30 to 6:30, they could use the same -- the larger courtroom 25 to accommodate -- would it accommodate the larger group? 3-10-08 62 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Would that be -- would that 2 be okay for you, or would you prefer the same time? 3 MS. LARIMER: I guess I'd have to make that 4 decision on my own, and I don't have a problem personally 5 with the later time of day. The -- I guess the problem might 6 be if there were older people who might not want to stay that 7 late in the afternoon. A lot of people like to keep their 8 meals right on time. But can we -- can we let you know 9 later, once the decision makers have had an opportunity to 10 meet, and say, "This is the specific time we want"? Or do -- 11 do I have to make a decision right now? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me offer a suggestion. 13 If your time frame that you're requesting is 1:00 to 4:00, 14 would there not -- would it not be possible for you just to 15 have somebody up in the -- up there in the foyer monitoring 16 when the Republicans vacate? 'Cause we vacate around noon. 17 They could use 216th. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we could do the order for 19 either Courtroom 1 or Courtroom 2. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a district courtroom. 21 MS. LARIMER: Right. If we set it for 1 o'clock, 22 and we have the smaller courtroom reserved to begin the 23 process there, and we see that we need the larger courtroom 24 and need to move, then that is also a possibility. But it's 25 important for us -- first of all, let me -- let me back up. 3-10-08 63 1 On Thursday, our executive committee will be meeting, and it 2 will be the executive committee that will make the decision 3 as to whether it would be 1 o'clock or 3 o'clock, or 3:30. 4 And I would -- I would prefer not to just unilaterally make 5 that decision myself, because there will be people who would 6 object, as you well know. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you were to change your 8 time to 2 o'clock -- 2:00 to 5:00 -- I believe you would be 9 very safe, because I think the other courtroom would be empty 10 by that time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But for right now, we could 12 pass a -- a more general motion to authorize the Democratic 13 Party to use either Courtroom 1 or 2. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Depending on availability. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depending on availability, from 16 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock that date. That way, you can -- your 17 executive committee can have some -- make the decision, and 18 we don't have to worry about it. 19 MS. LARIMER: Okay. And then, if they should 20 decide they want to keep it downstairs, that's available too? 21 Is that what you're saying? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'd say it has to be one of 23 the two upstairs. 24 MS. LARIMER: One of the two upstairs, but one of 25 them will be available? 3-10-08 64 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MS. LARIMER: One or the other definitely will be 3 available? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 5 MS. LARIMER: Very good. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One or both. 7 MS. LARIMER: I think it covers them. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably both of them will be 9 available, in all likelihood. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 11 MS. LARIMER: Okay, very good. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make the motion that we 13 authorize the Democratic Party to use the -- either one of 14 the district courtrooms, Courtroom 1 or Courtroom 2, from 15 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock Saturday, March 29th, 2008, for the 16 purpose of holding the Kerr County Democratic Party 17 Convention. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to availability? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subject to availability. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to amend that, 21 Commissioner, to from 1 o'clock on. Because if you're 22 including both courtrooms, there is a possibility that the 23 Republican convention would not be over, you know, at 24 12 o'clock, and somebody's going to say, "Well you told us 25 you were going to be out of there," so I prefer leaving it at 3-10-08 65 1 1 o'clock. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll accept that amendment. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. From 1:00 to 6:00, then, 4 subject to availability. Okay, we have a motion -- and a 5 second? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 8 as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exciting times. This is 10 exciting, to have a two-party system in Kerr County. 11 MS. LARIMER: It surely is. It surely is. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Finally made it. 13 MS. LARIMER: Brings a smile to my face. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't count on it, though. 15 I wouldn't hang your hat on it. 16 MS. LARIMER: I know the nature of this county. 17 And let me -- let me just add that when I first moved here in 18 1977, I was told that the difference between Kerr County and 19 Gillespie County is that in Kerr County, you're a newcomer 20 until you've been here for 25 years, and in Gillespie County, 21 you're a newcomer until you've been there for 35 years. I'm 22 not a newcomer any more. I'm glad to be a part of this 23 community. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Congratulations, Dot. We're 25 proud of you. 3-10-08 66 1 MS. LARIMER: Thank you very much. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 3 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. At this 9 time, I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I 10 will convene a public hearing for the final plat of Infamous 11 1169 Ranch, as set forth in Volume 8, Page 10, Plat Records, 12 and located in Precinct 4. 13 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:11 a.m., and a public hearing was held in 14 open court, as follows:) 15 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 17 that wishes to be heard with respect to the final plat of 18 Infamous 1169 Ranch, as set forth in Volume 8, Page 10, Plat 19 Records, and located in Precinct 4? Seeing no one coming 20 forward to address that issue, I will close the public 21 hearing with respect to the final plat of Infamous 1169 22 Ranch, as set forth in Volume 8, Page 10, Plat Records, 23 located in Precinct 4. 24 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:12 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 25 reopened.) 3-10-08 67 1 - - - - - - - - - - 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 3 Commissioners Court meeting, and we'll go to Item 6, to 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to accept the 5 final plat of Infamous 1169 Ranch, as set forth in Volume 8, 6 Page 10 of the Plat Records, and located in Precinct 4. 7 Mr. Odom? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The plat of Infamous 1169 9 Ranch was completed last April. Because of road access 10 issues, the developer was required to submit a revision of 11 plat. As stated on the plat, "This revision of plat only 12 changes the point of entry into the subdivision. No lots or 13 roads, as platted in Volume 8, Page 9 and 10, Plat Records, 14 are changing in any way." Therefore, we ask that you approve 15 the plat as presented. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll move we grant final 17 approval to -- 18 MR. ODOM: Infamous 1169. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do what? 20 MR. ODOM: I was just giving you the name of the... 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To Infamous 1169 Ranch. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 3-10-08 68 1 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 2 hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's lets 7 back to Item 1; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 8 request from John Cradit, Facility Director of International 9 Congress of Speleology -- Speleology, excuse me, to rent the 10 Union Church building from July 17th through 27th, 2009, at a 11 reduced rate. Mr. Cradit? 12 MR. CRADIT: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. I 13 have some brochures here I'll be glad to hand out to y'all. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With that, tell me what 15 speleology is. 16 MR. CRADIT: Yes, sir. It's the science of cave 17 exploration, or cave -- there we go. Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 MR. CRADIT: Kerrville has been selected to host 20 the International Congress of Speleology. It's been held -- 21 last year it was in Greece. Year before that, in Rio. 22 Before that, in Australia. This year's going to be in the 23 United States, and it will be held here in Kerrville. We are 24 pulling people from around the world -- scientists, 25 explorers -- to come, and it will be held at the Schreiner 3-10-08 69 1 University, and we will have dorms available for them -- for 2 people to stay in. We'll also have people camping out there, 3 and we're trying to keep the cost as low as possible to help 4 people who are traveling long distances to be able to afford 5 the registration. Schreiner's working with us quite a bit on 6 keeping the cost down. We would like to also rent the Union 7 Church as one of the venues for the week, and we're asking to 8 have a reduced rate for a week rental of the Union Church. 9 The Congress, we're expecting about 2,000 people to attend. 10 I was just doing some napkin calculations here a second ago, 11 and I figure that 2,000 people here for a week, eating meals 12 three times a day, will probably bring in about 13 three-quarters of a million dollars to Kerrville. People 14 staying at the hotels will probably bring in another $125,000 15 to Kerrville. So, quickly, we'll have about half a million 16 dollar influx into the economy in Kerr County. Then there'll 17 be souvenirs, t-shirts, James Avery jewelry, whatever else 18 the people will be purchasing here, so we're hoping to help 19 the economy here in Kerr County. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's our reduced rate, Jody? 21 It's half? 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: Fifty percent. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, for that type of a 24 rental, I think we would not do the cleanups in between. You 25 know, we'd do a cleanup at the beginning and at the end. 3-10-08 70 1 Wouldn't that work, Tim? We'd probably pick up trash, things 2 like that. 3 MR. BOLLIER: We would probably need to go by there 4 and check on it, though. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, yeah. But, I mean -- 6 but as kind of a justification for reducing the rate, we're 7 not cleaning it and doing everything every day. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Is the facility available 9 all of those dates? 10 MS. GRINSTEAD: I haven't booked anything for 2009. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- for what purpose 13 would you be using the Union Church? You're not going to get 14 2,000 delegates in there. 15 MR. CRADIT: We -- we will be holding different 16 sessions, scientific sessions, at the classrooms at the 17 university. But we're also looking for, you know, people -- 18 we may have a -- a slide show presentation, or an art 19 presentation or something like that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 MR. CRADIT: And also, it will be real close to 22 where our campgrounds will be in that grassy area, so we are 23 looking at putting up some security fencing around the 24 campground area. We would like to go ahead and enclose the 25 Union Church. There will be some gates right there at the 3-10-08 71 1 parking lot, of course, but run the security fencing all the 2 way around the Union Church to secure the campground. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I would -- I think 5 there would be a stipulation, after you said all that, that 6 the restrooms in the Union Church should be only for the 7 people using the facility, not for the campers. 8 MR. CRADIT: Oh, yes. Yeah, we'll have -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Please. 10 MR. CRADIT: I didn't even realize there were 11 restrooms up there. We've already made provision for 12 other -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't go up there. 14 MR. CRADIT: That'd be fine. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion we grant a 16 50 percent discount on the rental rate for Union Church. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval of the agenda item to grant a 50 percent discount on 20 the normal rental rate. Question or discussion on the 21 motion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 2,000 attendees 23 for 11 days in Kerrville? 24 MR. CRADIT: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About? 3-10-08 72 1 MR. CRADIT: About. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's -- our little old 3 town will take a pretty good hit, Mr. Cradit. I was kind of 4 interested in who these two gentlemen are that are with you. 5 MR. CRADIT: Those are my sons, and I thought I'd 6 bring them down, show them how -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are they home-schooled? 8 MR. CRADIT: They're on spring break. They thought 9 they were on spring break until they found out they had a 10 civics class this morning. So, we left early this morning 11 and got caught in a torrential rainfall when we left San 12 Marcos, so they were wondering when we were going to be here. 13 That's why I got here so late. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 MR. CRADIT: But when I got them up this morning, I 16 said, "You got another day of school." They weren't very 17 happy. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Are they spelunkers? 19 MR. CRADIT: Yes, sir, they are. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fantastic. Good to see you 22 guys. Welcome. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion on 24 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 3-10-08 73 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 5 sir. 6 MR. CRADIT: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here, 8 Mr. Cradit. Let's go to Item 2. Never thought we'd get 9 there, did you? 10 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, take appropriate 12 action to approve electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and pest 13 control contracts. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tim, what do we do about 15 plumbing? 16 MR. BOLLIER: I guess we'll just have to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do without? 18 MR. BOLLIER: -- do without, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't clog up the drain, 20 right? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let the inmates at the jail live 23 with their mistakes for a short while, educate them better? 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have a current 3-10-08 74 1 plumbing contract? 2 MR. BOLLIER: With Whelan. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whelan? 4 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they chose not to 6 respond to your RFP? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, what I interpret 8 that to mean is that everyone -- all the plumbers in town 9 want us to use their standard rates. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in that respect, Tim would be 12 free to call whomever. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whomever, as long as they're 14 all bonded, licensed, which I think all of them probably are. 15 MR. BOLLIER: I do have a couple lined up out there 16 in case I need them. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Okay, electrical looks 18 pretty self-explanatory to me. D.W. looks like they're the 19 lowest. I had a question. And Compton's was the only one on 20 HVAC. Pest control, can you explain on the -- the quarterly 21 versus the monthly and how the bids were actually requested 22 and advertised, if they were supposed to bid back two ways? 23 MR. BOLLIER: In other words, he's not going to 24 come and do it but every three months, spray the facilities 25 every three months. 3-10-08 75 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, he's going to reduce his 2 price $1,200 for coming four times a year? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make sense. 5 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, what's your 7 recommendation on all these? 8 MR. BOLLIER: My recommendation -- well, since 9 we're at pest control, I would like to stay with Hill Country 10 Pest Control, myself. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MR. BOLLIER: Then we go to -- I'd like to stay 13 with D.W. Electric. And then, of course, we'll stay with 14 Compton's, since they're the only one. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move that we accept the 16 recommendation of the Maintenance Manager. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 19 approval of electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and pest control 20 contracts as recommended by the Maintenance Supervisor. 21 Question or discussion on the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I'd like to say is 23 that I don't know why it is -- I guess there may be some kind 24 of law or statute or something that requires us to have so 25 much liability -- or require so much liability insurance from 3-10-08 76 1 each of the people that do contract work for us. And I 2 understand in the pest control, there's a $1 million 3 liability policy that's required, and there are other people 4 that might have bid on this had there only been a half a 5 million, which is the normal capacity of their bond. So, 6 saying that, I just thought I'd let you know. Maybe next 7 year, we'll -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, put that down. Look that 9 up next year. That's a good point. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 11 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 17 to Item 11 quickly, to, consider, discuss, take appropriate 18 action to reappoint three commissioners for Emergency 19 Services District Number 1 for one-year terms. Commissioner 20 Oehler? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It seems that ESD Number 1 22 kind of had a -- a lapse of memory on when they needed to get 23 some Board of Commissioners appointed or reappointed. Last 24 meeting we appointed -- I believe it was two for two-year 25 terms, and so I'll make a motion today that we -- or we 3-10-08 77 1 appoint Kenneth Wood, Donald Oehler, and Joanne Varner as ESD 2 commissioners for one-year terms so that we can straighten 3 out the -- the mess. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 7 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's take 12 our mid-morning recess. We'll be in recess for approximately 13 20 minutes. 14 (Recess taken from 10:30 a.m. to 10:52 a.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 17 were in recess. Let's go to Section 4, payment of the bills. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 22 bills. Question or discussion? Five Star Wireless. 23 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I see -- 25 MS. HARGIS: The 216th and the 198th. I didn't 3-10-08 78 1 handle this contract at all, or wasn't involved in it, but I 2 don't know that they were notified. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody was notified. 4 MS. HARGIS: Well, I don't -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Let us get 6 -- catch up with y'all. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page are you on? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm on Page 11. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did they negotiate the deal? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And 13. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, 216th District Court. 12 MS. HARGIS: It's the Judges. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. They weren't notified? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, well. Hell, let's just 15 pay it and go on. Why are you asking questions? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Because if they want a county cell 17 phone, we'll issue them one for ten bucks a copy, and not be 18 paying $20 and $33, respectively. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: District Judges. You didn't 20 read it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell somebody that gives a flip. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the kind of phone he 23 got, a flip phone. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe I should go sit out in 25 the car. 3-10-08 79 1 MS. HARGIS: Let me go and talk to them. I really 2 don't know, Judge. But -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. HARGIS: -- I'm sure -- I don't know. You also 5 asked about Dawn Wright's? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure did. 7 MS. HARGIS: And she -- I just looked on that bill, 8 and her -- it goes from 2-4, I think, to 2-14. It was not 9 the whole month. It's included in the overall bill. I don't 10 know if she -- I don't know what kind of phone she's got. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, she did have a Sprint, but we 12 had -- we had that contract in place in January. 13 MS. HARGIS: Not everybody, I don't think, had got 14 them in January, though. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We had the contract in place in 16 January. Actually, we were supposed to go on in December. 17 MS. HARGIS: I thought so. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But it was, like, the 20th of 19 January before we got everything finalized. I do not want to 20 pay that reimbursement. 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Can we check and see if she 22 was, you know, told at that point? Or when she was told? 23 'Cause we've had people come in and ask, "When are we going 24 to go on it?" When did we -- and I didn't know. I really 25 didn't. And so I can't -- I can't speak to what they knew, 3-10-08 80 1 either. I think we need to contact them and find out. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't think ignorance is a 3 -- is a good excuse here. The fact that we were going on the 4 master contract was known by every elected official and 5 department head in this courthouse, and we got to cut it off. 6 You know, this nonsense has been going on for months. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the notification? 8 Was it -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: There were e-mail notifications that 10 went out numerous times on that -- on the contract. And, in 11 fact, they were told it was December 20 was -- was the 12 switch-over date. 13 MS. HARGIS: Were the District Judges notified as 14 well? 15 MS. GRINSTEAD: I believe I have them in the group 16 e-mail for elected officials/department heads. I'll have to 17 double check, but I'm almost positive they're in there. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me just ask a dumb 19 question, kind of slow you down a little bit. You obviously 20 had too much sugar during the break. (Laughter.) Did -- this 21 is the middle of March. Is everybody online now? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I would certainly hope so. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would too. I mean, 24 that's what you're -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: In fact, we've added a number that 3-10-08 81 1 -- that weren't initially in the contract, and -- and we've 2 added some into the contract. I can't tell you what 3 everybody on the other end of the communication has done. I 4 know what they should have done. And if they didn't, you 5 know, then -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we think they all -- all 7 received this notification, there's going to be a switch-over 8 January 1 or whatever -- December 20. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: December 20. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever it was. And, 11 what -- what were they -- what am I supposed to do if I want 12 to switch it over? If I switch over from my personal cell 13 phone to a county cell phone? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Contact Mr. Trolinger. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then he hands you -- 16 hands me a cell phone? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: He makes arrangements for you to go 18 pull a cell phone from Five Star Wireless into this contract. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, everybody's 20 notified of that, and they chose -- obviously, three of them 21 chose not to do -- to go that route. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They chose -- they can keep 23 using their own cell phone and pay for it, like many of us 24 do. But they can't -- which is what, obviously, they kept 25 doing. But they kept on submitting their reimbursement, and 3-10-08 82 1 that's what the Judge is saying. I agree with the Judge. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I am too. I agree 100 3 percent, if that's what we did. I'm just trying to make sure 4 that's what we did. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to verify 6 that that -- or, you know, that e-mail went out, make sure 7 they all were notified, as long as that went out. 8 MS. PIEPER: That e-mail said as of December the 9 20th, that you would not be reimbursed for your cell phone 10 charges. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: December 20th? 12 MS. PIEPER: December 20th is what my e-mail said. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the switch-over date. And, 14 in truth and in fact, we have paid some that bridged over 15 past that, because we had some delay getting the contract 16 laid in place, and so they continued billing on an individual 17 basis. Now, this situation where we got direct billing from 18 the District Judges, we may have to take a look at that one. 19 But the reimbursement should not be an issue. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's why I asked 21 the question, 'cause we had some delays. Did that affect 22 anybody, those delays? That's why I asked the question. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: On -- on individual contracts that 24 they could have switched over? Shouldn't have. Shouldn't 25 have had any -- any effect on that, certainly not past 3-10-08 83 1 January, approximately, the 20th. You had a question? 2 MS. HYDE: One thing that I will tell you, that if 3 there was not a cell phone line item in your budget, John's 4 not giving you a cell phone until it goes into your budget. 5 Now, I will say that, 'cause that's why I don't have one yet. 6 That's the only "uh" that I've heard of. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll inquire of the Judges 8 and see what the answer is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the time being, the three 10 don't get paid? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my preference. Any other 12 questions or discussions? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're holding those 14 three? Is that what you're doing? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not paying them. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the only three? 18 MS. HARGIS: That's -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That sought reimbursement, 20 yeah. 21 MS. HARGIS: The rest of them are on -- we did find 22 some problems with the bill, the newest one we have in-house, 23 but we're working on that one. You don't have that one this 24 time. And you had a question about the juvenile? You said 25 revenue, and I pulled revenue, but I bet you meant expense. 3-10-08 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, maybe you're going to have to 2 help me with that. I don't think I've dog-eared my page 3 here. 4 MS. HARGIS: You said something about the revenue 5 being 2 percent. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, Indigent Health Care. 7 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Indigent Health Care is what I was 9 talking about. The report that -- that we were furnished 10 detailed every county in the state, and it showed what 11 8 percent of your general fund tax levy was, and then it 12 showed as of January -- and I don't know whether it's January 13 1st or January 31st -- the percentage of that general tax 14 fund levy that had been expended for indigent health care 15 that's outside of these issues, and it showed 2. One piece 16 of good news there is that begins to run in September, not 17 October, so it's either four or five months, but even at four 18 months, that's going to run us to 6.75 -- actually, 19 6.78 percent at that rate. 20 MS. HARGIS: We did get some refunds back, so -- 21 again this month, so that should help lower it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the figure we got is 23 gross and it's not net? 24 MS. HARGIS: I don't think so. I don't -- I've not 25 seen that report, so -- 3-10-08 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: -- I can't speak to it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's all the questions I 4 have. Other questions or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. On budget 10 amendments, we've each been furnished a summary sheet for 11 budget amendment requests as of February 29th, '08, for the 12 meeting of 3-10-08. Do I hear a motion that these budget 13 amendments as indicated in the summary be approved as 14 indicated? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the budget amendments as indicated in the summary 19 be approved as indicated. Question or discussion on the 20 motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Item 8, is that -- do I take 22 that to mean that the City gave us 63,000? 23 MS. HARGIS: No. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 25 MS. HARGIS: No. When -- 3-10-08 86 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought that was a little bit 2 of a big number. 3 MS. HARGIS: When we were doing the budgeting, 4 we -- one of the hearings, we put an even number, and then we 5 changed it at the last meeting, and I didn't get that change 6 made in the system, so I needed to fix it, okay? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MS. HARGIS: So that it doesn't -- so we're just 9 moving money from one spot to the other. It was right on our 10 summary sheet, but it didn't get in the machine. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? All in favor 12 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 17 any late bills? 18 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, but I do have something that 19 I've presented to y'all for just your review. It was at your 20 desk -- or tables when you sat down. I'm kind of accustomed 21 to providing some type of a financial statement to my elected 22 officials over my 30 years, on a monthly basis. So, we're 23 going to try to provide -- this is all the funds, just a real 24 summary type of a deal, of all of our expenditures and 25 expenses through February the 31st, and revenues, so that 3-10-08 87 1 you'll get an idea of where we're at. And we'll be giving 2 you one of these probably every -- every month. I think it's 3 just -- it's good for you to look at, and since all of you 4 don't have computers, this will be a, you know, help. You 5 know, hopefully when we get our new budgeting system in 6 place, which we will be doing in the next 30 days, then 7 everyone will be able to go online and pull their own. For 8 those of you who do not have computers -- I understand there 9 are some Commissioners that don't have computers, so we'll 10 give you the printouts. Those of you who want access, you're 11 more than welcome to, you know, come to my office any time 12 and look at those, or use one of our computers. We do have 13 an extra one there, so you can -- if you wanted to look at a 14 particular line item or things of that nature. But, all the 15 people who will be involved in the new P.O. system and the 16 budgeting system now have Incode on their machines, and so 17 I'm going to be doing the training first with the budgeting 18 so they get used to the system, and then we'll start the P.O. 19 system. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there is -- you have to 21 have Incode on your computer before you can access it? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes. So, if you have a computer here 23 at the county, you have Incode now. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: So, it's a read-only version, and I'll 3-10-08 88 1 be glad to step you through that so you can go in there and 2 check different things. But this is going to be, I think, 3 very helpful to the department heads as well. I mean, Rusty 4 already has access. He's one of the few. The rest of them 5 will be learning. And -- but I'm still going to give you the 6 booklet, 'cause I think it's nice to have something to -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Easier to work with. 8 MS. HARGIS: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The column, Percent Budget 10 Remaining -- 11 MS. HARGIS: That -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All those other numbers are 13 cute and pretty and all that, but I just feel like that that 14 is the column that we -- that I pay attention to, at least. 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, I would -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of to really see where 17 we're at. 18 MS. HARGIS: I would normally, but unfortunately, a 19 lot of these line items have been put in there on what they 20 call a -- on an amount basis, where you can -- it's just 21 divided by 12, so it's kind of giving you a false picture, 22 for instance, in your tax revenue area. So, next year we're 23 going to put them in based on percentages, and then what 24 it'll do is look back on the prior year, and when those funds 25 come in, it will actually do those percentages according to 3-10-08 89 1 when the money's come in. Because your tax money comes in 2 only four months out of the year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's what makes it 4 false, is -- yeah, I see what you're saying. 5 MS. HARGIS: So, you know, you can look at -- some 6 of your percentages are good and some of them are not. Just 7 depends on how the revenue comes in. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- I know I can do the 9 math, but is there a way that we could automatically print 10 the number of months divided by 12 so we know what the -- 11 where we are, so to speak? Like, I'm looking down here; 12 without doing the math, I'd say we're probably around the -- 13 halfway, or almost halfway through the year. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Almost halfway. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Almost halfway point. 16 MS. HARGIS: And you can kind of -- really, kind of 17 look at your -- you know, your budget, as far as your ad 18 valorem taxes. See, it's showing only 19.38 percent 19 remaining, and that -- that's about right. You got about 20 another 2 million there to go, plus or minus. And the others 21 are getting fairly close to where they need to be. Sales 22 tax, however, I did notice is running ahead. Tommy was very, 23 very conservative in that, and I will say that it's probably 24 a good position to take with sales tax, because it's a very 25 volatile source of income. Looks like 2009 may be a real 3-10-08 90 1 good time frame. And I did -- I have -- just so you'll know, 2 I have been looking into the special sales district, but I 3 haven't got any good information yet. I had some return 4 calls from attorneys while I was out of town, so I'll try to 5 get that for you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I take it the sales tax is 7 listed as Other Taxes? 8 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What else is included this 10 other than sales? 11 MS. HARGIS: Mostly that -- I think that's just 12 pretty much it on that one. Just a -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we change the name to 14 Sales Tax? 15 MS. HARGIS: But let me check to make sure, okay? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be too easy. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the low -- 19 MS. HARGIS: Not my G.L. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The low percentage of budget 21 remaining in 198th, is that a red flag that, early on, we're 22 going to have to start feeding the Court-appointed services 23 and Court-appointed attorneys and special court reporters and 24 all those things? Interpreters? 25 MS. HARGIS: This is just the revenue side of it, 3-10-08 91 1 Judge. I'm sure the -- a lot of these things -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm talking about the expenditure 3 side. 4 MS. HARGIS: Okay. What page are you on? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm on Page 1. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the 216th, isn't it? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: 198th. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, 198th has only got 9 30 percent remaining. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 216th District Attorney has 11 zero remaining. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I was looking at the 13 court. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: Let me look at it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 216th District Court's got 17 64 percent. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're halfway through -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not halfway through. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not quite halfway through, 22 and there's only 30 percent of the total budget left. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what this says. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: For purposes of mental calculations, 25 what I always do is -- is back off a 30-day period. This 3-10-08 92 1 shows through February, which would be five months, but your 2 bills come in on the ensuing 30-month -- 30-day period. So, 3 really, this represents bills paid through January, so that's 4 four months. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're a third of the way 7 through, essentially. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or is February included in 10 this? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's as of February, but in 12 February we pay the January bills. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. But right now -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, through January. 15 MS. HARGIS: There could be some February ones in 16 there, but not that many. The last court date, you may have 17 a few. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What I'm saying is, what we 19 approve today to be paid, is that number included in this? 20 MS. HARGIS: No, it is not. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That was my question. 22 MS. HARGIS: No. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like getting this thing. 24 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. I'll look into the 198th. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been presented with 3-10-08 93 1 monthly reports from Constable, Precinct 1; Constable, 2 Precinct 4; County Clerk, both General and Trust Funds; 3 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; Constable, Precinct 3; 4 Environmental Health; and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3. 5 Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as 6 presented? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the reports as presented. Question or discussion 11 on the motion? All in favor of the notion, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We have an 17 11 o'clock timed item, but it looks like that's going to 18 be -- or very well could be mostly an executive session item, 19 so why don't we go to Section 5 and get that out of the way. 20 Do you have any reports in connection with your liaison or 21 similar type assignments, -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Commissioner Baldwin? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 3-10-08 94 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only that the -- kind of 2 the second phase of the median household income survey that 3 we're being required to do for Center Point and the eastern 4 part of Kerr County is underway. The letters are out, and 5 I've had a lot of phone calls about people asking what this 6 is all about, and questions on how to proceed, and we should 7 have -- have that information massaged and come back to us on 8 whether or not we're going to meet that criteria, I would 9 think by the end of this month. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, the inquiries, are 11 they -- are they saying, "What's wrong with you dummies? 12 We've already done this once"? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. What happened, 14 Commissioner, was that the first wave, when we sent out 663 15 letters, using basically the addresses that were provided to 16 us by KCAD, turned out to be -- a lot of them were property 17 addresses. That's not where people receive their mail, so we 18 had about 240 or 250 of them that came back undeliverable. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is a good exercise. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it is. So, we had to 21 readdress them and send them back out again. That was why we 22 had the second wave. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really good. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 3-10-08 95 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two items. One, I think 2 everyone -- I know everyone received the Airport Business 3 Plan document, and I think it was rather interesting that the 4 two areas that Commissioner Williams and myself have been, 5 for lack of another word, harping on for the last three years 6 about airport governance, one, that the City has not been 7 providing enough detailed information on financial matters, 8 and two, that the Airport Manager should report to the 9 Airport Board, both of those items were hit exactly as we 10 have been saying by the consultant. And, so, a little bit 11 of, as Commissioner Williams said, "I told you so." And it 12 was nice to -- you know, an independent body agreed with the 13 way we were looking at it, that we felt that we were getting 14 the short end of the stick from the information standpoint 15 dealing with the City related to the airport. The other 16 item, on Friday, I spent the morning in Wimberley meeting 17 with what's come to be called the county-to-county group. I 18 think they adopted a name now; it's now the Hill Country 19 County Coalition. This group is really looking at working 20 with the Legislature -- upcoming Legislature on primarily 21 subdivision-type rules, trying to get some new authority to 22 counties. The -- at one point during the meeting, there was 23 probably 20 different items on the list that we were -- 24 that -- which was to be asked for. And I brought up, and 25 Judge Millican from Comal County agreed, that that was 3-10-08 96 1 ridiculous. You know, let's narrow to what we really need or 2 feel like we need, and the list was pared down to two items. 3 One is that counties -- and these are basically -- and this 4 also a, I guess, cut. We didn't define it exactly, but on 5 small lot sizes -- and that's small, maybe 5 acres; it may be 6 2 acres, something like that -- that counties be allowed to 7 set density limits. And on small subdivisions, counties be 8 allowed to assess -- they didn't like the word "impact fee." 9 I think they came up with the word, a "safety road fund," 10 for -- to charge the developer a fee, and those funds go -- 11 or are earmarked for the county roads in the area of that 12 subdivision. Those were the two items. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean the county roads 14 that lead up to the subdivision? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those were the two items that 18 it was narrowed down to, to go to Legislature and look at. 19 Depending on how it came out, I could probably support those, 20 but I'm sitting on the fence a little bit. Some of the 21 counties, I will say that, in the Hill Country seem to want a 22 lot more authority than I think we need to have. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyways, thanks to Judge 25 Millican being there to help. 3-10-08 97 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Commissioner. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't elevate him. He'd be 4 very unhappy if you elevated him. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't be very happy? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll bet. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought he was a judge. 8 Anyway, I think they're going to -- the next meeting is in 9 Blanco sometime coming up before too long. But, anyway -- 10 and it looks like the big, I guess, split right now in the 11 group is that a majority of the group, I'd say, wants to hire 12 a lobbyist, and they think that that money can be raised. 13 Obviously, everyone agrees that it can't come from county 14 funds. That we should go to people that may be receptive to 15 this and try raise it from the communities at large. They 16 talked with former Representative Carter Casteel, who is now 17 a lobbyist, and familiar with these type issues, what that 18 would cost, and she gave us a ballpark figure of $60,000 to 19 fund a bill through the -- or kind of birddog a bill through 20 the Legislature. And, you know, that's kind of where that 21 stopped. They -- there was quite a few on the -- on the 22 group that thought that the way that we get our allies and 23 funding was through environmental groups, and I explained to 24 them that if they went that route, I think Kerr County would 25 probably go a different direction. They were talking about 3-10-08 98 1 the more radical environmental groups. I think I'm pretty 2 environmental-minded, but I don't think that I'm going to see 3 myself aligned with the Sierra Club on something, generally. 4 They do some good work, but they have some political agendas 5 that I don't agree with. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd be surprised if you 7 did. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's kind of where that 9 meeting was in Wimberley. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quick note about what 11 you talked about. You and I have a meeting on Thursday, 12 maybe the first of the meetings that we're trying to organize 13 with the City to talk about the airport and the library and 14 animal control issues. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, Commissioner Baldwin 16 and I have the first one. We're at 11 o'clock that same day. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. Make them 18 really mad so they'll be good for 1 o'clock. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're meeting with -- 21 Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Coleman, I believe, are meeting with 22 Buster and myself out at the Road and Bridge Department. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then -- 1 o'clock? 25 3 o'clock? What time are we meeting? 3-10-08 99 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think ours is -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sometime in the afternoon, 3 we're meeting with somebody else. I forgot who we're meeting 4 with. That's it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it, huh? I don't have 6 a whole lot to add. I just, I guess, will say that we have 7 had a little bit of a problem with one particular volunteer 8 at the Animal Control, and that volunteer, I believe, is no 9 longer there. She's the lady that came from outside the 10 county and was doing the photographs of the animals that were 11 up for adoption, to be put on the Petfinder.com, and was 12 causing some controversy that was unnecessary and unwarranted 13 out there. And, so, now we are doing it ourselves. We have 14 a little gal out there that can take -- her name is Sarah, I 15 believe, and she is able to take the photographs and write 16 the articles and put it on Petfinder without having this 17 volunteer person come and do it. Janie's giving her off two 18 hours twice a week to go and put it on -- do it through her 19 home computer, because we still don't have a fast computer at 20 Animal Control; they're still working with the dial-up, and 21 it takes forever to download those things. As soon as we get 22 that available, they will do it at the shelter. But, for the 23 time being, it is being done, but we're doing it ourselves. 24 And that has eliminated a big problem there that has surfaced 25 out there. 3-10-08 100 1 Ray and some of his staff have been in San Antonio 2 last week, Environmental Health, getting some -- some more 3 certification on solid waste issues, and I think they've 4 completed that course. Things down there seem to be going 5 well. They're making some progress on some of these solid 6 waste issues, as well as the turn-around time on the -- on 7 septic issues relating to basically checking the documents 8 that come in and making sure that the -- that what they are 9 proposing to do they will do before they grant permits to -- 10 to construct. I believe we have -- I know we have three 11 certified finally in Environmental Health doing those things, 12 and the turn-around time is very greatly increased. A lot of 13 those are one-day turn-arounds, where they used to be a week, 14 10 days, sometimes longer. So, I don't -- I haven't been 15 getting any complaints from anybody saying that they've been 16 held up and they're not getting their work done because of 17 Environmental Health holding up the process. So, I think 18 they're doing a really good job at that, and that's about all 19 I have. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, any plans to 21 -- for Solid Waste/Environmental Health to file for some of 22 those grants that are available through the Solid Waste 23 Committee up at AACOG? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do not know that right now. 25 I haven't talked to Ray about it, but I'll find that out 3-10-08 101 1 before the next meeting. We can ask him this afternoon. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any reports from 5 elected officials? Department heads? 6 MS. HYDE: Just to update you gentlemen, we've had 7 three meetings now with the City H.R., and they've requested 8 a fourth meeting on Wednesday, and they've asked for you and 9 I both, Judge, to be there. One of the things that we 10 reviewed was what I gave to Rex, was the contract that had 11 been given out. And we've given them a high profile of the 12 folks in our county that work for us; very high, male/female, 13 date of birth, that type of information, so that we can do 14 the first -- what we assume was the first part of the risk 15 analysis to see if it was something viable on the health 16 insurance. They're now requesting a little bit more detailed 17 information. They want our claims for the last two years. 18 And at that point, we'll -- that's why we want to have 19 another meeting; we want to discuss it a little bit further. 20 They do want detailed claims information, and based upon what 21 it shows in -- in this interlocal agreement for Chapter 791 22 and 271, I think our County Attorney will agree, it appears 23 that they want to get this information so that they can put 24 out an RFP. And so we feel a little bit unsure at this point 25 what they want, so we want to have another meeting with them 3-10-08 102 1 before we go any further. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You say they want to put out an RFP? 3 MS. HYDE: The consultant. And this information 4 that they gave to us, one of the items in here is that they 5 get this information and they do an RFP, and that way they 6 can see, can we get some bids if we put the insurance 7 together for the two groups? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't that kind of 9 confuse -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Premature. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it'd be pretty 12 confusing. We have -- I mean, really confuse our carrier and 13 their carrier if, all of a sudden, an RFP goes out. 14 MR. EMERSON: It's real premature. If you look at 15 Chapter 791, there's a number of actions that have to take 16 place, or should take place before any request for RFP ever 17 goes out, and as far as I know, none of those actions have 18 taken place. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would think that that RFP 20 would have to be blessed by both entities, and not just put 21 out by the City on our behalf. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would agree with that. 23 MS. HYDE: Yeah, I don't think that's what they -- 24 what their intent is. I think that -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3-10-08 103 1 MS. HYDE: We just need to get together with their 2 consultant again and make sure that we're all understanding 3 what we're attempting to do. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the initial stage here is to 5 determine whether there's basic compatibility to pull the two 6 groups together, and unless we can cross that threshold, I 7 don't see us getting to the next threshold, which would 8 include a detailed risk analysis of the type that would be 9 made in an RFP situation. But in discussions with -- with 10 our consultant, Mr. Looney, who has not been in on any of 11 these -- 12 MS. HYDE: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, intentionally. I didn't 14 think it was necessary on the early stages. But we have 15 apprised him of what's occurred, and he has indicated to us 16 that -- I say "us" -- Ms. Hyde and I, that he's seen a number 17 of instances where various school districts have been able to 18 pool together, primarily smaller school districts, smaller 19 staffs, and pool together so as to create a larger pool. He 20 indicated that he has seen a number of instances where city 21 and county governments have attempted to find a way in which 22 they could pool, and he has yet to see one that has made it 23 to the point where it was ever submitted, I think, for even 24 an RFP, detailed risk analysis for bid by -- by a health 25 benefits provider. He said there's -- there's just some 3-10-08 104 1 wrinkles there that, so far, are just a little tough to 2 overcome. So, we're trying to see if maybe some of those 3 wrinkles are being smoothed out. If they aren't, we -- it 4 may be one of those things that, as Mack Hamilton said, you 5 know, may be something we can't do. Let's look at something 6 else. So, that's where we are on it. 7 MS. HYDE: We did agree to some items that we could 8 attempt to share. It's not to say necessarily large dollar 9 amounts, but it is, like, shared services. On our H.R. 10 pages, we can both put down jobs that are open between the 11 City and the County. To save a little bit of time, people 12 can go to those web sites and look at both, and also pool 13 applications. We're going to share -- we can share some 14 training. In fact, this Friday we're going to have three 15 folks and myself participate in a new supervisor's 16 orientation the City does, and then critique it, and let them 17 look at what we have and see if we can't modulate it together 18 into something that we can both use. And also look at, can 19 we put ourselves together so that instead of having personnel 20 go over to the emergency room at Sid Pete or over at Hill 21 Country in Fredericksburg as the first resort to small 22 injuries, we're working with two local emergency care 23 facilities to see if we can do that to save some money. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the Boerne area, there is 25 a -- it's called Urgent Care Clinic. Is there a new one that 3-10-08 105 1 opened up in Kerrville? 2 MS. HYDE: Sid Pete has a new one down on Junction 3 Highway. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Minor Injury Care, or 5 something like that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's another one out 7 of Boerne. I think Boerne's is Urgent Care, but I think they 8 opened up one here. There's quite a few of them around. 9 Franklin Clinic, too. Boy, that's the way to go with that 10 stuff, to me. I mean, it's a whole lot more reasonable than 11 going to the emergency room, and it's very good care. 12 MS. HYDE: We just have to be careful on the 13 clinics, any -- any clinic -- any of the smaller clinics, 14 because if they use P.A.'s versus doctors, the insurance will 15 not pay. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they do. 17 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they do use P.A.'s. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Some do. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other one at Boerne, they 21 have two -- three emergency room doctors who are retired that 22 they -- pretty much, the doctors run it, and it's -- it is -- 23 that's a good thing. They have, you know, got to look at the 24 pitfalls, but it's an attempt to -- seems to me, to save 25 funds. 3-10-08 106 1 MS. HYDE: We just have to make sure -- if we go 2 forward, of course, we'll bring it to you, and y'all can 3 review it and see what we've got. But we want to make it 4 where it's pretty accessible for the employees on a minor 5 injury type basis. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like you're speaking 7 from experience in the recent past, with two sons. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They go a lot, and it's always 9 on weekends. (Laughter.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Hyde. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're regulars. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports from elected 13 officials? Department heads? Any other reports we need to 14 receive? We've got an 11:30 timed item -- sorry, did you 15 have something? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I see the -- the 17 wonderful Democratic Party -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a timed item for 11:30, and 19 I'm going to call that item now. Number 16, to consider, 20 discuss, take appropriate action to approve consolidating the 21 polling locations for the Democratic runoff into four 22 locations. 23 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, the Department of Justice 24 normally requires 60 days for approval. And I talked to that 25 office the other day, and they will give us expedient 3-10-08 107 1 consideration if I can get this approved and get them all the 2 necessary paperwork, and if we use the same four locations 3 that we used during the last consolidated precincts, that 4 being -- Precinct 1 is River Hills Mall; Precinct 2, the 5 Union Church; Precinct 3, the courthouse, the lower level; 6 and then Precinct 4, the First Presbyterian Church. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: In Ingram? 8 MS. PIEPER: In Ingram. So, I just need approval 9 to consolidate into these four locations. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any problem with that? 11 MS. LARIMER: No, I'm in total agreement. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval as indicated. Further question or discussion on the 17 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay, let's 23 get back to Items 12, 13, 14, and 15. All of those indicate 24 executive session. My first inquiry is, on any of those 25 items -- I certainly understand real estate acquisitions is a 3-10-08 108 1 matter that's executive session eligible. On the others, 2 they appear to be personnel-related. Are there any portions 3 of those that are related to general management, staffing, 4 structure of a department, as opposed to individual 5 employees, that we can handle in the clear in open session? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On 14, why would it be in 9 executive session? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my question, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's your question? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If we're talking about -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's going to answer the 14 dadgum question? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde? 16 MS. HYDE: I'll answer the dad-burn question. The 17 dad-burn question answer is that, because we're going to talk 18 about specific individuals. But it's deferred at this point, 19 because Diane Bolin still is not available. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're not even going to 21 deal with it? 22 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're going to pass item -- Item 24 14? 25 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 3-10-08 109 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is there any portion of 13 2 that could be handled in open or public session? Are we 3 talking about solely one individual? 4 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir, what? 6 MS. HYDE: We're not talking solely about one 7 individual. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Then we're talking about department 9 structuring -- 10 MS. HYDE: There'll be a couple of people 11 discussed. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But we're talking solely 13 about individuals? 14 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 15. We're 16 talking about individuals there? 17 MS. HYDE: Some of it. There is some that we could 18 talk out in the public, I believe. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm going to call Item 15; 20 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on internal 21 posting of the department head for Court Compliance 22 Department. Commissioner Baldwin, did you want to open it, 23 or pass it to her? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just pass it to her. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 3-10-08 110 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So far. 2 MS. HYDE: The first part that I believe -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, this is the open part. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sorry. I was... 6 MS. HYDE: First part that I think that can fall 7 under open is that we did our internals, and we had one 8 person apply internally for the position, and he's the 9 current position holder. So -- but in addition to that, 10 there were some questions. And I haven't been able to review 11 it with you, Commissioner Baldwin, but I think that you have 12 a little bit of knowledge, Judge, about the Perdue, Brandon, 13 Fielder, Collins, and Mott Limited Partnership. There has 14 been some discussion about this office, anyway, and whether 15 or not there was two or three people needed, or one or two 16 people needed. And Perdue and Brandon have talked with us, 17 and they say that, basically, they can help us with some of 18 these collections, and the cost will be zero to the County, 19 in that if there's $1,000 out there -- $1,000 out there 20 that's owed to the County in collections, that they'll add 21 30 percent to that, which is their reimbursement for 22 themselves, so that it would still be $1,000 coming to the 23 County, plus they get a tacked on amount for their fee. They 24 do a lot of work in this area. They can -- they have a lot 25 of expertise in contacting and finding people, especially 3-10-08 111 1 from a higher level. 2 MR. EMERSON: Can I ask a general question? How 3 are we fitting within the agenda item? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I was going to say, it looks like 5 we're getting outside. 6 MS. HYDE: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're not talking about how many 8 people we're going to have in the department; we're just 9 talking about the department head, is all we're talking about 10 now. That's the agenda item, I think. 11 MS. HYDE: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 MR. EMERSON: Well, and on top of -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, on internal posting only 15 for the department head. 16 MS. HYDE: We had the one. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. That's all we can 18 handle in open? Okay. At this time, it is 11:38. We will 19 go out of public or open session to go into executive session 20 to discuss Items 12, 13, and 15. 21 (The open session was closed at 11:38 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 22 is contained in a separate document.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's 12:01, and we're now 25 back in public or open session. Does any member of the Court 3-10-08 112 1 have anything to offer with regard to matters which were 2 discussed in executive or closed session? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Regarding Item 13, Judge, I 4 would move that the position of interim chief deputy be 5 extended to Cheryl Thompson for an additional 90 days. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval as indicated. I assume that's based upon the 9 compensation as previously -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- received during the prior 12 six-month period? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion on the 15 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 16 right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Anything 21 else to be offered with regard to matters considered in 22 executive or closed session? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Item 1.15, I move that we 24 appoint Mr. Will Brown as the -- what? Director? What is 25 that? 3-10-08 113 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Manager? 2 MS. HYDE: Call him the manager, yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Manager of the Court 4 Compliance office -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Department. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 8 Compensation, Commissioner? Current compensation? Is that 9 what we're talking about? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean "current" as in 11 where he is -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What he's presently making. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or does he go to the -- the 14 position -- the salary of that position? That's -- that's 15 where I'm at. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that he would -- when he 18 takes over the leadership, decision-making role, that then he 19 takes that same salary. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that an exempt position or 21 not? 22 MS. HYDE: It was an exempt position prior, and it 23 should not have been. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should not be? 3-10-08 114 1 MS. HYDE: Should not be. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where would -- 3 MS. HYDE: And also, when I went back and looked, 4 part of the reason why the prior position was funded the way 5 it was is because the employee had longevity, and he was 6 never reduced. His pay was always increased. So, currently, 7 the position being held by Will is at a 17, Grade 17. He is 8 a Step 4 because of longevities. And the other one was 9 exempt at 40,375. A 17 is 29 -- 17-4 is 29,088. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's a 19-4? 11 MS. HYDE: 19-4 is 32,108. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's a 21-4? 13 MS. HYDE: 35,441.43. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He currently is a 17-4? 15 MS. HYDE: 17-4, yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that number is? 17 MS. HYDE: 29,088. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the prior position, there 19 was also other responsibilities in that job. 20 MS. HYDE: I.T. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I.T. responsibilities. 22 MS. HYDE: A lot of I.T. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That goes away. 24 MS. HYDE: No -- yes, sir. They don't -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not part of this. 3-10-08 115 1 MS. HYDE: No, sir, this is not part of this. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Would -- would a department head 3 position for a small department, as it were, would that fall 4 under 19? Would it fall under 21? Where would that 5 normally -- 6 MS. HYDE: Well, the closest thing that we have, of 7 course, would be -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: How about Environmental Health? 9 MS. HYDE: -- Environmental Health and Animal 10 Control. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 12 MS. HYDE: And Environmental Health, he was brought 13 in as a 25.1. But -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But there's about six employees out 15 there, correct? 16 MS. HYDE: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. HYDE: And then Animal Control is a 23. And if 19 I go back to Maintenance, Maintenance is right there as well 20 at a 23. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that salary? 22 MS. HYDE: 23-1 is 36,327. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would like it at either a 19 24 or a 20 -- 20 or 21, somewhere in there. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wouldn't look -- I would 3-10-08 116 1 not look at that department being -- being a higher level 2 than Environmental Health or Animal Control, because they're 3 not supervising anybody. It's a one-person department. 4 MS. HYDE: That's right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 19-4, I think, is a good 6 fit. Just my opinion. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that is what? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's 32,108. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's a little bit less 10 than what Tim and Janie and those departments and Ray is 11 drawing? 12 MS. HYDE: Yeah, you bet. It's 32,108, which is 13 about two grand -- an increase of about two grand. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Three. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll buy that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three grand? 18 MS. HYDE: Three grand, I'm sorry. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What is your motion? 19-4? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to 24 bring in Will Brown as manager of the Court Compliance 25 Department at Grade 19, Step 4. Question or discussion on 3-10-08 117 1 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any more 7 business, gentlemen? We'll be adjourned. We have a workshop 8 at 1:30. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't you maybe want to recess? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's a workshop we've got 11 posted. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but in case, after -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. In case we might want to do 14 something, all right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we back on the damn 16 cattle guards? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're going to put -- install 18 some cattle guards over the lunch hour. Let me retract the 19 adjournment, and we will be in recess until 1:30 this 20 afternoon. 21 (Recess taken from 12:07 p.m. to 1:32 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 24 we might. We were in recess from our Commissioners Court 25 meeting until 1:30. It's a bit past that now. Anybody have 3-10-08 118 1 anything to offer -- are there any open-ended things from our 2 Commissioners Court meeting of this morning? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not that I'm aware of. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is there a possibility there 6 may be so before we -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was the one that we 8 decided -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, then I will 10 adjourn the Commissioners Court meeting which was originally 11 commenced this morning at 9 a.m. 12 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:33 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 15 STATE OF TEXAS | 16 COUNTY OF KERR | 17 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 18 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 19 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 20 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 21 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 14th day of March, 2008. 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 3-10-08