1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, May 12, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 12, 2008 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request from Randy Olson for a variance to allow him to purchase a 5+ acre lot without 5 preparing a replat 14 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request for variance to OSSF rules 20 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 establish a leash law for Flat Rock Lake Park in accordance with State law 35 9 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 10 concerning amendment of plat for Privilege Creek lots numbered 2 though 11 56, 78 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 address illegal dumping at Kerr County parks 64 13 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve final plat of A-OK Storage 70 14 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 approve final plat of Scenic Hills Summit East 70 16 1.10 Consider/discuss and take appropriate action concerning concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch 17 Road around Mo-Ranch 71 18 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to name a private road per 911 guidelines 77 19 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 20 proposed changes to the courthouse square 82 21 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to obtain permission to proceed with pouring con- 22 crete at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 95 23 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve submitting AACOG Solid Waste Grant 24 Application to purchase one police package vehicle for Environmental Health Department 107 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 12, 2008 2 PAGE 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve proclamation declaring May National Historical Preservation Month 109 4 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 5 regarding participation in energy management services/assistance through State Energy 6 Conservation Office 111 7 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on acquiring laptop computers for members of 8 Commissioners' Court, and installation of necessary computer cabling in Commissioners' 9 Courtroom to permit court to participate in electronic budgeting process and other 10 appropriate applications 112 11 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to initiate an RFP process to hire a project 12 administrator & engineer for pending 2008 TxCDBG Colonia Fund project 126 13 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 approve parameters for proposed design project at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 127 15 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 develop comprehensive protocol regarding access to Kerr County financial and confidential 17 employee personal information 134 18 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on enrollment or coverage options on Texas Assoc- 19 iation of Counties workers compensation self- insurance fund 144 20 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 21 proposed policy requiring all Kerr County elected officials, department heads, and employees to 22 read and respond to e-mails received on a timely basis, without necessity of prior communication 23 that such e-mail is being transmitted 152 24 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for 25 Medical Examiner Services between Travis County and Kerr County; allow County Judge to sign same 153 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 12, 2008 2 PAGE 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 declare old Animal Control van surplus 154 4 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve tax collection contract with City of 5 Ingram; authorize County Judge to sign contract 154 6 1.24 Consider/discuss contract with Tyler Technologies 155 7 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to approve/renew postage machine contract with 8 Pitney Bowes at the same government rate as the last four years; authorize County Judge to sign 9 same 160 10 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on implementation of the burn ban 161 11 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve moving election duties to the Voter Registrar's Office and one employee from County 13 Clerk's Office (Executive Session as needed) --- 14 4.1 Pay Bills 162 15 4.2 Budget Amendments 163 4.3 Late Bills --- 16 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 164 17 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 164 18 --- Adjourned 166 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, May 12, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this specially scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, May 12th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is that 11 time now. If you would be kind enough, please, to rise and 12 join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of 13 allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be 17 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is 18 the time for you to tell us what's on your mind. If you wish 19 to be heard on an agenda item, we would ask that you fill out 20 a participation form. They're located at the back of the 21 room. I assume there are still some there. It's not 22 absolutely essential that you do that, but it helps me know 23 that there's someone that wants to be heard on a particular 24 agenda item. But right now, if you want to be heard on a 25 matter that is not a listed agenda item, please feel free to 5-12-08 6 1 come forward and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one 2 coming forward, it appears that we can move on. 3 I want to give recognition this morning to some 4 folks that don't get all the recognition they fully deserve. 5 Last week we -- we had another rash of wildfires. The bigger 6 ones were out in the west end of the county, and our 7 volunteer fire departments did a tremendous job in bringing 8 those under control. And as that camaraderie goes, when the 9 call went out, we had a lot of different departments, 10 in-county and out-of-county, that may not have been directly 11 affected by this fire or that particular fire that came to 12 our aid, and that's -- that's part of why these folks are so 13 effective in what they do. We had a total of eight fires, 14 according to the information I've got, that were out at Byas 15 Springs -- near Byas Springs Road; that one was estimated at 16 over 700 acres. We had another one out at Cypress Creek 17 Road, one on Weatherby Road, which is off of I-10 and 41, a 18 fire on Reservation Road, Carpenter Ranch out to the west. 19 There was one at Goat Creek Road. There was one out in 20 Kerrville South, on Vine and Turkey Spur, and then up in the 21 far west -- northwest part of the county, off of Highway 83 22 at The Dominion. 23 We had a lot of different agencies that pitched in 24 and made this happen and brought things under control. Of 25 course, our Sheriff's Department, they were out in force. 5-12-08 7 1 The Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, Upper Turtle 2 Creek Volunteer Fire Department, Medina Volunteer Fire 3 Department, Divide Volunteer Fire Department, Harper 4 Volunteer Fire Department, Gillespie County Volunteer Fire 5 Department, the Ingram Volunteer Fire Department, and then, 6 of course, we had a number of -- of private individuals that 7 had the kind of equipment that is very helpful to bring these 8 under control. The big yellow iron equipment, bulldozers, 9 scrapers, backhoes, and things of that nature, that -- and as 10 usual, they stepped up; they pitched in and helped out also. 11 We also had participation from the Department of Public 12 Safety. Of course, our Road and Bridge Department was there 13 to assist with water and fuel. Kerrville Fire Department 14 assisted. The Forestry Service was there, and the Red Cross 15 was there to provide for the personal needs of the 16 firefighters. When you see these folks, thanks them for what 17 they do. They work very, very hard, long hours when they go 18 to these fires. They don't know how long they're going to be 19 there, and they just stay until it's done. That's the way 20 they do their job, and they do a heck of a good job at it, so 21 thank them when you see them. 22 The other item I'd like to mention is, over the 23 past, oh, week and a half or so, we've had out here at the 24 Hill Country Shooting Sports Center a major shotgun shooting 25 event. It's a World Cup competition. It concluded 5-12-08 8 1 yesterday, started the previous week -- actually, two weeks 2 prior, during that week. Went on for approximately ten days. 3 Those events bring a tremendous amount of money into the 4 economy of this community and this county, and the numbers 5 are really quite staggering when you look at them. I don't 6 think the ones for this shoot have been released yet, but 7 there have been numbers that have been released for other 8 shoots that have been here. We have a number of those each 9 year that occur out there, and it's really good for the 10 economy here. The merchants are -- are quite pleased to see 11 them come to town. You may have noticed out on the 12 courthouse grounds last week -- they may still be there now, 13 I'm not sure; I didn't look this morning -- there were the 14 flags of, I believe, 39 countries. Those were the number of 15 countries that had athletes participating in that shooting. 16 And I assure you, there was some mighty fine shooting going 17 on out there. I had the privilege of presenting the medals 18 for the women's skeet, and I'm very happy to report it was 19 U.S.A., one, two, three. But support that organization and 20 all that they do out there, because they do a tremendous job. 21 What do you got for us, Buster? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. I have a couple of 23 things. One is, I participated in a group -- a planning 24 group recently in regards to Lemos Street Bridge with TexDOT 25 and a whole bunch of other folks. And I think they have 5-12-08 9 1 completed the preliminary work on that, and we've been 2 notified that there will be a closing of Lemos Street 3 beginning late August or September of this year for 4 approximately 12 months. So, you know, it's time to start 5 getting geared. I know Bruce comes in from the west and uses 6 the new loop and comes over to the big bridge and comes into 7 town that way, and I think that's very smart, and it's 8 comfortable, isn't it? Beats -- beats the traffic. And so I 9 think we all need to kind of get geared in that way of using 10 -- using the big bridge. And -- but just think, life is good 11 in Kerrville. We could be living in Houston, with -- with 12 five preschool kids. (Laughter.) So, we don't; we live 13 here, and we're all a bunch of old geezers, so life is good. 14 The only other thing that I wanted to talk about, 15 Judge, is the election over the weekend. The smoking 16 issue -- which I think is the dumbest thing that I have ever 17 encountered, and I cannot believe us old-timers allow that 18 kind of nonsense to happen in our community. I am an 19 anti-tobacco guy. I'm just completing my battle with cancer 20 because of tobacco use, so I'm anti-tobacco, but I'm much 21 stronger on private property rights. And this thing has 22 just -- it's turned -- you know, I see in the paper where 23 they preach it's a health issue, and tobacco is a health 24 issue, but this particular thing that they approved this last 25 weekend is a private property rights issue, to me. And I can 5-12-08 10 1 tell you that that little -- that that little fight's not 2 over. I guess that's about all. I'm pretty excited about 3 serving as a member of this Commissioners Court, and ready to 4 go. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. 6 Commissioner Williams? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Left unsaid with the 8 Commissioner's comments regarding the smoking ordinance was 9 how they plan to enforce it. I agree with what you said. 10 You know, we'll see how they're going to enforce it. But I'd 11 like to offer my congratulations to Mayor-elect Todd Bock, 12 and to Councilmen Chuck Coleman and Scott Gross for their 13 re-election, and look forward to working with some of those 14 folks on some of our unresolved issues. Next. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That it? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I ask you -- I 18 just want to ask a question. I think it's a legal question. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's always dangerous. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the -- yeah. One of 21 the parts of the vote this weekend -- or one of the parts of 22 the ordinance, the smoking -- or city smoking ordinance is 23 you can't smoke -- 20 feet? -- 20 feet from an entrance, I 24 guess, of a public place or something, maybe. Does that 25 pertain to -- does the city ordinance apply to County-owned 5-12-08 11 1 property? I think it does, but I also think that -- that we 2 need to be armed with -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff is nodding his 5 head, and the County Attorney is hiding. (Laughter.) 6 MR. EMERSON: County Attorney is saying put it on 7 the agenda and we'll talk about it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The County Attorney would like more 10 advance notice than what he just got. Good question, 11 Commissioner. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just -- you know, it 13 does -- do city ordinances cover County-owned property? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, going back to the fires 16 last week, one thing that you didn't say was the day that 17 those fires started, it was illegal to burn, burn ban or no 18 burn barn, in the state of Texas. And I know Commissioner 19 Baldwin is working on bringing some experts into Kerr County 20 to give us and our law enforcement agencies and judicial 21 people some resolve in exactly what the law says and how big 22 these fines can be. And I would caution people that people 23 who start breaking burn bans or burning on days it's illegal, 24 whether it's a burn ban or not, I hope -- and I'll do 25 everything I can to get our judicial system to go after them, 5-12-08 12 1 and law enforcement after them heavy-handed. It's absolutely 2 ridiculous, and the cost to the taxpayers of this community 3 for those fires that day was astounding, and needs to be 4 stopped. 5 One other item. This Friday at 9 o'clock, there's 6 going to be a group of other commissioners and county judges 7 in town. We're meeting out at Schreiner University. It's a 8 group -- it's kind of a loose group that's got most of the 9 hill country counties participating in it, and we're kind of 10 looking at the next legislative session. What they're going 11 to be working on is primarily in the area of subdivision 12 rules, but some other issues as well, and it's kind of 13 interesting. We're a little -- this -- our county, Kerr 14 County, the five of us up here are a little bit, probably, 15 more conservative than some of our brethren in the 16 neighboring counties, but we're hoping that they don't go too 17 far in some of these requests that they've got so they can at 18 least get our support. But some things there do need to be 19 some changes, and it does appear that subdivision rules are 20 going to be a very -- on the forefront this next legislative 21 session, so we're trying to keep input and keep involved with 22 that. That's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two things. Actually, there 25 are a lot more, but I don't want to talk about everything, 5-12-08 13 1 take up all the time. The bridge projects in the Hunt area, 2 1340 and Highway 39, the first project is -- is Hope Crossing 3 on Highway 1340. They had a little delay, but they should 4 have -- and they've promised us, barring any disasters, they 5 will have two lanes open the end of May so that it won't 6 affect the tourist travel in the area with the camps opening 7 in that area. And then they will work on the two Smith 8 Crossings after that, which really kind of don't affect 9 anything but people touring that area out there. It doesn't 10 have much effect on the camps. So, that's progressing, and 11 then Phase 2 will start sometime probably late fall or maybe 12 even into the winter. But all those projects, after 13 negotiating with the committee that was sanctioned by our 14 representative, Harvey Hilderbran, then also the state rep, 15 Fraser, has worked well, and that is one of the agreements 16 they made with us, that they would not work on those projects 17 during the summertime. And that was a pretty big deal 18 because of all the tourists that we have, and it makes it 19 really inconvenient that -- the travel up there is always so 20 restricted anyway with the narrow highway and what-have-you, 21 and it's kind of aggravating for those of us who live here 22 year-round to go through that in the summer, but that's part 23 of what we do. 24 The other thing is, a week ago Saturday, we had an 25 adopt-a-thon at the Animal Control, and it was very well put 5-12-08 14 1 together by our Animal Control people, and supported by 2 Freeman-Fritts and Dachshund Rescue, and also the Humane 3 Society. Got a lot of animals adopted out. I think the 4 awareness was -- was put forth, and a lot of people, I think, 5 were surprised to see the facility being as well run and as 6 kept clean as it is. And I believe we had somewhere between 7 400 and 500 people came through, and we -- my wife and I and 8 another lady bought some brats and fixed them for -- I think 9 about 140 people ate. And they raised some donations and got 10 some animals adopted. It was a good thing. I think we're 11 going to start doing that at least annually, maybe 12 semiannually. And I may get shot for the semiannual thing, 13 because it's a lot of work to put it on, but it is a good 14 thing, and I think it's important that we -- we educate the 15 public on -- you know, on taking care of their pets and doing 16 it properly so we don't have this problem and have to have 17 the function of animal control being what it is today. Maybe 18 it can change in the future where it could be a no-kill, but 19 for the time being, we still have to deal with -- with that 20 part of it periodically. Anyway, that's all I have for now. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. Let's get 22 on with our agenda. The first item was a timed item for 23 9:00. Of course, it's a bit after that now. Consider, 24 discuss, and take appropriate action on a request from Randy 25 Olson to grant a variance which will allow him to purchase a 5-12-08 15 1 5-acre lot from Jack Clemer without preparing a replat. 2 That -- it's a road located at the end of Goat Creek Road. 3 MR. OLSON: I got some papers for y'all. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just hand me all of them, 5 Randy, and I'll -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can do that, pass -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- pass them around. Thank 8 you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: There you go. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the variance? 11 MR. OLSON: Well, we're ready to close Wednesday. 12 And somewhere, I guess, y'all passed an ordinance or a rule 13 or something that Mr. Clemer's other property, which is 200 14 and -- 15 MR. CLEMER: Seven. 16 MR. OLSON: 207 acres, we had to replat it or plat 17 it off for a subdivision. I'm not too familiar with that. I 18 mean, it's on y'all's -- I don't know. But he does not want 19 to sell any more land. It's in his family. I stopped and 20 talked to him three weeks ago, and he didn't want to sell any 21 land. And then we got to talking, and he was a bomber pilot 22 in World War II, and I told him I just buried my dad in 23 Arlington Cemetery, and we talked a little while. Anyway, he 24 called me over two weeks ago and he said, "I want to do 25 something for another veterans's family." So he said, "I'll 5-12-08 16 1 sell you 5 acres off my far corner." And he's not making too 2 many dollars off this deal, and we've already paid the 3 surveyor $2,000 just to do the one 5-acre tract, and he's 4 quoted 2,800 more for the next one, for, you know, y'all's 5 big one subdivision plat or something. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a little bit of 7 confusion, maybe. The rest of his property -- Mr. Clemer's 8 property does not need to be platted. The piece you're 9 buying needs to be platted. And -- 10 MR. OLSON: Well, it's already done. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's not -- no. I mean, 12 it's got to be platted as a subdivision. That's just state 13 law. 14 MR. OLSON: Well, I'm not making a subdivision. 15 It's 5 acres, and -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's less than 10 acres, 17 it's triggered under state law; it has to be platted. 18 MR. OLSON: Well, undoubtedly, something's 19 confused, because they were saying his -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His property, he can carve out. 21 He can leave his property out, but the piece you're buying 22 has to be platted as a one-lot subdivision. 23 MR. OLSON: Well, I mean, how can we take it down 24 under 5 acres if we're under your septic tank and your water 25 well -- 5-12-08 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't make any difference. 2 State law says if you're less than a 10-acre tract, you have 3 to be platted. I mean, it's state law. 4 MR. CLEMER: May it please the Court, could I ask 5 this question? Because I practiced law for 37 years, but the 6 tract that he is going to buy from me, this is platted -- 7 it's replatted. The rest of my ranch doesn't have to be 8 replatted, does it? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hmm-mm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 11 MR. CLEMER: We have a plat for this. 12 MR. OLSON: Is this good? Or is that a subdivision 13 plat? I don't know. It's one Ashley just did. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a plat that refers 15 to subdivision. I mean, this -- 16 MR. CLEMER: That is -- that is the part that is 17 being subdivided out of my ranch. I mean, subdivision to 18 him -- it's a tract to him. Other than this, I won't be 19 selling any more property. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. This -- what I'm 21 saying, that's not a -- that's not a subdivision plat. 22 That's just a drawing that the -- 23 MR. CLEMER: It's a plat that the title company 24 will use to draw a metes and bounds description in order to 25 give a guaranteed title. 5-12-08 18 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. You can't -- well, if 2 you can't do -- Rex, why don't you explain it? I'm not doing 3 a very good job. 4 MR. EMERSON: You're explaining it perfectly clear. 5 If it's less than 10 acres, it has to be platted. And 6 there's certain procedures that you have to go through to 7 fulfill the plat requirements, and Road and Bridge can walk 8 you through those. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rest of your property is 10 fine; it can stay as it is, and is not part of a subdivision 11 plat. But if it's less -- 12 MR. CLEMER: This is great, but my nephews and 13 nieces -- we had 1,100 acres there, and my nephews and 14 nieces, we partitioned it between us. At that time, we made 15 a plat, but it's a plat of a partition plat. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. CLEMER: And they have sold some of theirs. 18 They -- I need money, but I get by without it. They -- they 19 have sold some of theirs, and they, of course, platted theirs 20 because they were offering it for sale. It's back over 21 there, part in Gillespie County, part in Kerr County. But 22 I -- I just want to let Randy have a place to -- for his son 23 to live. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only way you can not plat 25 this is if it's over -- 10 acres or larger. If the tract is 5-12-08 19 1 10 acres or larger, it would not be required. 2 MR. OLSON: He didn't want to sell 10 acres. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then it's got to be platted. 4 And only that 5.2-acre tract is platted, and it's just a 5 matter of -- I mean, it appears from what you've just showed 6 me that Mr. Ashley's already done everything, other than go 7 through meeting with Road and Bridge and paying some -- the 8 fees for a real small subdivision. 9 MR. CLEMER: May it please the Court, I want to be 10 sure I understand this, and then I'll shut up and let y'all 11 conduct your business. You say the only thing that would 12 have to be platted is what we've already had surveyed? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MR. CLEMER: That would -- nothing else would have 15 to be platted, so this would not take but a month or so if he 16 just replats this, right? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could go through in one 18 meeting under the alternate plat process. Correct, Leonard? 19 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be one meeting to the 21 Court once the drawings's prepared. It has to go through -- 22 there are some fees. There will be a -- Environmental Health 23 Department will have to review it, and if it's an existing 24 house and property -- 25 MR. OLSON: Nothing on there; it's just raw land. 5-12-08 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Raw land. 2 MR. CLEMER: It's raw land. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it should be able to go 4 through, you know, pretty quickly, and you've got most of the 5 work, it appears, that Mr. Odom needs, so just have either 6 yourself or Eric Ashley meet with our Road and Bridge 7 Department, and it's a pretty simple process. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Basically, you're just 9 getting signatures showing that it's been reviewed. 10 MR. OLSON: Then it comes back to y'all? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then it comes back for final 12 approval. 13 MR. OLSON: So, there's no way to really get a 14 variance on this. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought there was a 16 variance process. I'm the one that encouraged him to do 17 that. 18 MR. OLSON: All-righty. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 20 MR. OLSON: Thank y'all. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 2, if we might. 22 Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on a request for 23 variance to On-Site Sewage Facility rules. Mr. Wiedenfeld? 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: Morning, Commissioners. Charles 25 Wiedenfeld, licensed sanitarian, state of Texas. I bring a 5-12-08 21 1 request to y'all on behalf of my clients requesting a 2 variance to the County's on-site sewage facility rules, 3 specifically the rule or standard for long-term soil 4 application rates. I proposed a plan for upgrading my 5 client's septic system, which is having signs of being 6 inadequate to serve their needs right now. They're located 7 in the city of Ingram, under the jurisdiction, I guess, of 8 City of Ingram, for which y'all administer their sewer 9 program. Again, back to my variance, I'm requesting that we 10 have a soil application rate of .2 gallons per square foot 11 per day. This is in the disposal area, commonly called the 12 drainfield. The rules call for a .1 gallon per day per 13 square foot, which is -- if you do the math, that takes twice 14 as much drainfield than what I am proposing. And I'm basing 15 my proposal or request on a variance in that this system that 16 they have, based on historical performance of the existing 17 system, has been in the ground for 30 years, probably been at 18 the capacity -- effluent loading capacity rate for the last 19 10 years as it is currently, and thus I feel like an 20 application rate of .2 has been appropriate for the last 10, 21 15 years. 22 Also, I want to bring out that the standards that 23 are prepared by the state or established by the state, 24 they're -- they're titled long-term soil application rates, 25 which they throw in a safety -- margins of safety in there 5-12-08 22 1 for long-term application of effluent. And being the clients 2 are within the city limits of Ingram, City of Ingram tells me 3 that they're three to five years out on having central sewer. 4 Y'all may know probably a little more about that. My clients 5 are ready to hook onto that system, and will be required to 6 hook onto that system, as you probably know also. And they 7 were even to the point they'll be willing to extend any sewer 8 main that is necessary to get them to hook up. And, thus, 9 they felt like and I felt that if we didn't -- they didn't 10 feel like it was good sense at this time, business sense or 11 whatever, to put in a -- a septic system that was twice the 12 size of what was -- what I was proposing. What I'm proposing 13 is one and a half times. It's already a greater drainfield 14 than what was in there, plus it's coming -- coming up closer 15 to state standards. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, you feel like that 17 is not fair because of the new system that's coming on -- may 18 or may not be coming on board in a year or two? Is that what 19 you're saying? 20 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I think that is definitely 21 one of the considerations for, you know -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else are you saying? 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: -- adequate protection, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else are you saying? 25 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I think the biggest thing is 5-12-08 23 1 that actual historical performance of the system, 'cause I'm 2 putting the system right in the same soils and the same area 3 that the existing one is. So, I mean, if the existing 4 system's lasted for 30 years, I mean, I would think -- and I 5 feel pretty good about putting my seal on something that I 6 can -- you know, I'm building it. I'm proposing a plan that 7 would be one and a half times the existing system; that that 8 would theoretically go for 45 years, rather than I'm only 9 anticipating a five-year type deal. And I don't believe that 10 we'll have any public health, environmental damage to 11 anything here. There is none at this time. The clients have 12 been very proactive. They -- you know, they have a little 13 bit of mushiness in the soil above the drainfield, but 14 there's no long-term evidence of long-term failure of the 15 septic system. The grasses are all still -- Bermuda grass, 16 well vegetated, no real problems. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this an office setting? 18 MR. WIEDENFELD: This is an office setting, yes, 19 sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wiedenfeld, you indicated that, 21 if I understand you correctly, number one, you are increasing 22 the evaporation aspect of this system by 50 percent over that 23 which it is now? 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And secondly, you mentioned that 5-12-08 24 1 your client is obligated to hook onto the system when it's 2 put in, and it's pending, and there's some funding issues 3 that I think are kind of up in the air that we hope to hear 4 something about pretty soon, I think, or particularly the 5 folks in the city of Ingram. That your client would pay for 6 the extension of any main that may be necessary to hook up. 7 You're talking about the Phase 1 of that Ingram sewer 8 project, are you not? 9 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes. That's my understanding, 10 yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I met with both Hill Country 13 Telephone and with Charlie Wiedenfeld the other day and went 14 over all these things, and actually saw the plans that -- the 15 construction plans for the wastewater system, Phase 1. 16 Actually, the phone company is in Phase 2, but they're 17 willing to extend the line to hook up to Phase 1 at their own 18 expense, and be reimbursed when the Phase 2 comes into play 19 sometime in the future, but it's at least a year and a half 20 away to be able to do that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, we -- 22 precedent-wise, we've done this before in Ingram, have we 23 not? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we've granted a variance 5-12-08 25 1 to do -- to allow for this? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now, granted, I have to -- I 3 have to present both sides of this thing. I believe that 4 Charlie's trying to do the right thing, but I also know that 5 Environmental Health -- the reason that they're objecting to 6 it is because it's in Class IV soil. There's a lot of clay 7 in the upper level, and the old system was put much deeper 8 than you can put them nowadays, or really that should have 9 ever been allowed to begin with. But that was long before 10 the systems were inspected and designed the way they are 11 today. So, the upper level of that area, what I understand 12 from Ray and from Tish, is that it's Class IV soil. It's got 13 a lot of clay in it, and so, you know, clay is a very good 14 treatment, but it also saturates and seals and it doesn't 15 take as much as the lower level would in that, the more 16 gravelly type stuff. So, you know, we talked about also 17 making the -- if what he proposed did not work and we were 18 having problems out there, that they have another area they 19 could extend into to enlarge the drainfield area at such time 20 if it did cause a problem. They're trying to do the right 21 thing there. They just don't want to spend more money than 22 absolutely necessary to get them through till the time they 23 can hook onto the main wastewater line. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where we are, I think. 5-12-08 26 1 Is that pretty fair, Ray, from what I -- 2 MR. GARCIA: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not the first time 4 we've entertained something like this. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We entertained the same 7 situation in the Kerrville South sewer system, with the 8 promise or pledge that the owner would hook up when the line 9 got there. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're even willing to 11 hook up at an even earlier time than they would be in the -- 12 when the Phase 2 would come in. They would be able -- they 13 would be willing to spend the money to extend the line. And 14 I think, you know, it's -- I understand that the soil's not 15 that great, but, you know, it's up to us to kind of decide 16 whether we want to give a variance or whether we don't, and 17 -- and then let them -- and then that system being tagged 18 with, you know, if this causes a health or safety issue, then 19 it must be extended at that point if what he's proposed 20 doesn't work. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall the exact 22 particulars, but within the city of Ingram here sometime 23 back, there was one that by all rights would have required a 24 complete new system, and we authorized some -- I think we 25 termed it "emergency repairs," if I'm not mistaken, at the 5-12-08 27 1 time. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Because it was going to end up in 4 the -- in the sewer collection system of the city of Ingram, 5 and that was our primary basis in doing that short-term down 6 the road. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, anyway, there is -- I 8 mean, there is -- you know, of course, Environmental Health 9 is doing the best thing they can do, and they identified the 10 problems and they identified the soil, and they -- they do 11 object to going with what Charlie has proposed. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The first -- I mean, this is 13 the way, in my mind, the system is supposed to work, and I'm 14 glad. When a variance comes up, something like that, I think 15 it's up to the Court to make the decision. You know, and I 16 think y'all are doing your job, too, that we want you to do. 17 To me, it makes sense. If you were to fashion a motion for 18 all this, I'd second it. I mean, you know, 'cause I think it 19 is a short-term solution. We have a precedent; we've done 20 this before. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be glad to do that. 22 I'll make a motion that we allow the -- allow a variance for 23 the Hill Country Telephone in Ingram to install a system one 24 and a half times greater than the existing system, and at 25 such time before they hook up to Phase 1 wastewater for the 5-12-08 28 1 City of Ingram, that they will need to extend that system to 2 meet the needs to protect health and safety. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And be willing to upgrade the 4 system if it -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I meant by what I 6 just said. They'll upgrade it if what we have allowed the 7 variance on does not work. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 10 indicated. Question or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment. I kind of 12 agree with your department on this thing because of the -- of 13 the soil issue, that it doesn't -- less ability to treat the 14 effluent. But I think -- I think the important issue here is 15 the fact that if this doesn't work, and you come along later 16 and then require them to expand out into some other property 17 or make their drainfield go on, what are you going to use as 18 -- I mean, obviously, these folks are not going to give you a 19 letter saying that they intend doing that. You're going to 20 just remember that these words were said in this court? 21 MR. GARCIA: Right. Well, that's one of the 22 questions that I had, is what -- 'cause in my enforcement 23 book on O.S.S.F., it -- where do I come to that point to 24 where I can use that as leverage? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only thing I know of is the 5-12-08 29 1 words used in this courtroom. 2 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, and Bruce kind of 4 outlined it a little bit in his motion there. So, you know, 5 I guess -- that's -- to me, that's the only tool you have, 6 because you don't -- you're not going to get any kind of a 7 written agreement with Charlie or anybody, I don't assume. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll basically be an 9 authorization to construct based on that. But if it does 10 fail -- if the system fails, it needs to be tagged onto that 11 permit to construct, and also the license to operate, that if 12 it does fail, they're going to be required to extend that 13 to -- to negate the health and safety issue. 14 MR. GARCIA: There is -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or you're also saying that 16 even if it -- even if it does not fail, when the sewer line 17 becomes available, they are agreeing to hook up to that sewer 18 line in Phase 1? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In Phase 1. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, Ray, that even 23 if -- even if there's a permit issued straight out without 24 any conditions or notations on it, if there's a subsequent 25 failure of a system that's permitted, because of whatever 5-12-08 30 1 condition, and it creates a health or safety issue, you have 2 the ability to proceed under the legal authorities which you 3 operate your department under. 4 MR. GARCIA: Right, yes, sir. Under those 5 conditions, we do. In the enforcement of an actual failing 6 system, then we go in and we enforce it that way. Getting 7 back to the point to where Charlie has his clients, they're 8 required to hook up as soon as Phase 1 comes through, from 9 what Commissioner Baldwin said, okay, that's -- is that going 10 to give me -- that's the enforcement for us as to what was 11 said in court here for them to hook up immediately to Phase 12 1. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me make a point, 14 or make a comment. When we did the -- when we had a similar 15 situation that came before the Court on the Kerrville South, 16 that was a mobile home park, there was a -- there was a 17 separate letter of understanding or memorandum of 18 understanding that they signed in which they agreed to hook 19 up as soon as that line got there. I'm wondering if maybe we 20 should do the same thing in this case. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could have the County 22 Attorney draft a letter like that for them to sign it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. Then -- then you 24 know what -- what the Court has agreed to, and everybody 25 knows what the Court has agreed to, and we have the 5-12-08 31 1 enforcement authority to take care of either situation. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that a lot better. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but let Hill Country 5 Co-Op draft the letter. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're suggesting that the motion 7 needs to include the condition that Mr. Wiedenfeld's clients 8 execute a letter to that effect, that they will hook up 9 promptly as soon as Phase 1 service is available? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good way 11 to proceed. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe that's a great way 13 to proceed. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. GARCIA: Excuse me. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's amended to that effect, I 18 presume? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 20 MR. GARCIA: I'd like to let Roy Shaver make a 21 comment, if you would, please. He's the Designated 22 Representative that is handling this O.S.S.F. system 23 installation. 24 MR. SHAVER: I just wanted to mention that there 25 was actually a request for two variances. The first one was 5-12-08 32 1 to use the .2 gallons per square foot per day exception. The 2 second one was to allow a pipe length in the drainfield of 3 90 feet -- 93 feet, whereas the state standards usually 4 require nothing longer than 70 feet. The reason for that is 5 because of the excessive pressure drop in a longer line, and 6 93 feet is much longer than a normal standard. I looked at 7 Mr. Wiedenfeld's calculations. He indicated that the 8 pressure drop was going to be about one and a half foot of 9 head. If the pressure head is kept at 2 to 4 feet, which is 10 the required standard, then there shouldn't be a problem with 11 that, and I would agree to that. The only thing I'm just 12 wanting to bring out is there were two variances requested, 13 so if you give approval, then you need to give approval to 14 both of the variances. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I missed one of them, I'm 16 sorry. I went off into a coma there for a minute. 17 MR. SHAVER: Well, the first variance was as 18 Mr. Wiedenfeld asked for, classifying the soil basically as a 19 Class III when it's really a Class IV. That's the main 20 request. The second one was to use a pipe length of 93 feet 21 instead of 70 feet. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what are we doing here 23 today? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are you objecting to 25 that, Mr. Shaver? 5-12-08 33 1 MR. SHAVER: Not the second one, no. The first 2 one, I am. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So the second portion going from 70 5 to 93 feet is something that's acceptable, based on your -- 6 MR. SHAVER: Yeah, I think that's acceptable. It 7 could be done. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does your motion include both 10 variances? What do you want to do, a second motion? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we ought to just wipe 12 that whole thing out and start over. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The soil issue -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The soil issue is -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is a big issue. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is a good issue, but the 17 thing is, it's been functioning, but it's been much deeper 18 over the years, in the years previous to now. But I still 19 believe that, on a short-term basis, that we could make 20 that -- we could do the variance on the soil type and Mr. 21 Shaver, you know -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The length. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Extended length of the piping 24 I don't think is a problem. But, like I said, we have the -- 25 I believe we have the assurance, or will have before the 5-12-08 34 1 system goes in, from the phone company that they're willing 2 to do whatever it takes to make sure that health and safety 3 is of the utmost importance. So, let me try again. I move 4 that we grant a variance to Mr. Wiedenfeld to construct a -- 5 a system one and a half times greater than the existing 6 system in Class IV soil, and that the piping be -- the 7 variance be extended from 70 to 93 feet, and at such time as 8 we receive a letter from Hill Country Telephone agreeing to 9 extend the sewer line in Phase 1 of the wastewater project, 10 and if the system that we have given a variance on fails, 11 they will agree to extend that to protect health and safety. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You -- okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Covered all the bases. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any discussion, questions on 16 that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 22 sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, how do you feel about 24 gambling in New Mexico? (Laughter.) What a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under a tent. 5-12-08 35 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the longest winded one 2 in a while, huh? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 3, if we might, to 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to establish a 5 leash law for Flat Rock Lake Park in accordance with state 6 law; also establish a Class C misdemeanor under Texas Health 7 and Safety Code, Section 365.012, with fines up to $500 for 8 persons who fail to clean up their animal's waste while using 9 Flat Rock Lake Park. Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here we go again, Judge. 11 We've been down this road before, and we're back again. And 12 I guess -- I guess what I want to start the discussion is for 13 Mr. Bollier to step to the podium and tell the Court and the 14 public what he and his maintenance crews are experiencing 15 with respect to Flat Rock Lake Park and dog feces all over 16 the place. Mr. Bollier? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, Commissioner Williams. 18 Well, like I've said in the past, there in the park -- I 19 can't pronounce the word you said, so I'm just going to use 20 "poo." Dog poo is all over the park, and it's just getting 21 worse. When we go down there to mow, the dog poo is on the 22 -- it gets on the tractor tires and it comes out from 23 underneath the deck. You can't even go down there and have a 24 picnic any more. You can't walk anywhere without getting it 25 all over your feet. I mean, it's just a mess, sir. So, I 5-12-08 36 1 mean, something needs to be done. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in addition to your 3 report to the Court, some of us have received comments and 4 complaints from citizens with respect to inability to use the 5 park with their families for picnics and so forth because of 6 failure of animal lovers who use the park, their failure to 7 clean up behind their animals. And I got to say at the 8 outset, I don't have any grievance against people who own 9 dogs. I was a dog owner all my life until five years ago. 10 But I have sat out there and watched, and I have driven 11 through that park and I have witnessed people who have their 12 bodies here, their animal there, and the dog is doing what 13 the dog does and what he needs to do when he needs to do it, 14 and nothing happens except the owner keeps walking along 15 oblivious to what's going on. That needs to stop. So, we 16 have this issue before us. Anybody else want to comment? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment, that in 18 some of the pre -- earlier times when we talked about this, 19 we were assured by many of the dog owners that they would 20 start cleaning up after the dogs, and that has -- that's not 21 taken place, and they would also keep the dogs under close 22 control, and that has not taken place. So, I think we've 23 given the opportunity for people that want their dogs to run 24 free to do a better job, and they up to now have not done 25 that. 5-12-08 37 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are some who have 2 proposed that the County provide the little baggies that you 3 put your hands in them and all that stuff, and for this very 4 purpose, and I don't see that that's an appropriate use of 5 taxpayers' money, for us to provide that kind of cleanup 6 material for people who have had the privilege of using that 7 park unfettered. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 9 Going back to your picture of dog here and owner here. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the dog -- is it "poo"? 12 (Laughter.) 13 MR. BOLLIER: You know what it is, Commissioner. 14 Commissioner, you know what it is. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another word that 16 starts with C. You can do it that way, if you like. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. So, the answer to the 18 problem would be to make people put their dogs on leashes? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that they're -- when the 21 dog poos, they're right there. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in a position to clean 25 up behind their dog. 5-12-08 38 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you used a word just a 4 moment ago, the word "privilege," and that's a point I want 5 to make, is that that is a privilege for people to use that 6 park for any reason. And it's definitely not a right, but 7 it's a privilege. And so far, I think that we have bent over 8 backwards to allow the animal people to -- I mean, it's not a 9 dog park. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not a dog park. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did not go the dog park 12 route. Are the Ag Barn people still in here? Yeah. We 13 can -- we can turn the Ag Barn over to the dog people. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they could go in the 15 pigpen. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big fight. The room is full 17 of dog folks. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I hope that they get the 20 opportunity to speak here today, but if I had to vote right 21 this very moment, I would vote for your leash law. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess one other comment is, 23 until we hear from those that want to speak, the -- the 24 bridge is now in place, at least for walking across, maybe 25 not for driving. And the -- we've referred to it as the 5-12-08 39 1 eastern portion of the park, east of Third Creek. I have no 2 problem with -- you know, for the people being -- anyway, 3 leaving that no leash required, but the part west of Third 4 Creek, leash and cleanup required. And if we don't see much 5 of an improvement, the whole park may, you know, end up going 6 the leash law. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That could be an alternate 8 suggestion, Commissioner. Let's hear what the public has to 9 say. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an idea. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Will our agenda item authorize that 12 particular action? No. 13 MR. EMERSON: Which part? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Declare the eastern portion -- the 15 eastern segment of that park, that it's not governed by the 16 leash law. I didn't think so, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, good. That's not a 18 good idea, anyway. Sorry, Jon. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have one participation form that 20 has been filed, Mr. Robert Palmer. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're kidding. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've seen Mr. Palmer 23 before. 24 MR. PALMER: I want to thank you for that buildup. 25 About ten months ago, those of us who wanted a place for our 5-12-08 40 1 dogs off-leash were allowed by y'all, through an agreement, 2 to use Flat Rock Park. And the understanding was that we 3 would keep our dogs in verbal command or on leash, and that 4 we would not let any stray -- we would contact someone about 5 strays. So, it says in the newspaper here, the last time 6 this came up, Commissioners said there haven't been any 7 complaints lately about unleashed dogs attacking other dogs 8 or people, but rather complaints about dog feces. Well, the 9 Commissioners -- you never came to us, the dog owners, and 10 said, "We have a problem here. Would you help clean it up?" 11 I have been available. Other members have been. If you had 12 seen somebody in the park that was not cleaning up, all you 13 had to do was come -- go over and make a comment to them. 14 Since this article has come out in the newspaper, which was 15 on the 29th, on that very day a petition went around to the 16 Kerr County Commissioners, et al. You have this petition. 17 We, the undersigned dog owners, do agree from this day 18 forward -- that's April 29th, 2008 -- to pick up our dogs' 19 feces when walking our dogs at Flat Rock Park. Now, that was 20 two weeks ago. Since then, the park has not only had -- been 21 as clean, but all the trash -- we picked up trash, we picked 22 up dog feces. The park is as clean as it's ever been. Now, 23 your person who mows comes there once -- what, every two 24 weeks or once a month? If he had come back, he would have 25 seen that this park -- that we are ready to take 5-12-08 41 1 responsibility for this park, because we appreciate this 2 privilege that we've been given. And if you give us a 3 chance, we will keep this park clean. Right now, it's 4 cleaner probably than any park in Kerrville. So, one thing 5 that is really annoying and resentful, I think -- I resent 6 it -- is that we are now -- since we have made this 7 agreement, it's like we are sitting around as target 8 practice. Anything goes wrong in the park, find the 9 people -- the off-leash people and blame them. There are 10 many people on leash -- who have their dogs on-leash right 11 now down there who are doing the same thing. They're not 12 picking up their dogs' poop. And a lot of the fishermen who 13 come with their dogs along the edge of the river let their 14 dogs go. So, what I'm proposing is you take this petition 15 seriously, because it has the names of a lot of people that 16 are here, of all the people who utilize this park with their 17 dogs. And we made sure that everybody who did put their name 18 on this, they were more than willing to keep this park. So, 19 I want to know if we have any leeway on this, if we can have 20 some time to prove that we can keep this park clean before 21 you try to enforce a new law that says we have to put a leash 22 on the dogs. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've already had a year. 24 MR. PALMER: Right. And according to you, there 25 haven't been any complaints about unleashed dogs attacking 5-12-08 42 1 other dogs or people. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I'd had them, you'd have 3 heard about it. 4 MR. PALMER: So, we worked hard to take care of 5 that problem, and none of you came to us and said, "Look, we 6 have a problem with it -- the feces there. Can you help us? 7 Can we work together on this?" You didn't do that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are your office hours 9 and where do I find you? 10 MR. PALMER: You have my phone number. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that don't get it. 12 MR. PALMER: I'm in the phone book. I've talked to 13 you individually. I tried to get -- I tried to get this 14 dispenser for y'all to make a commitment. A whole $175. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not, for one, going to 16 propose that the taxpayers' money be spent to clean up after 17 your dog or anybody else's dog, no. 18 MR. PALMER: Well, see, every park -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my vote. No. 20 MR. PALMER: Every park that has dogs just about 21 has this system. Dispensers -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then you take your dog to 23 that park. 24 MR. PALMER: No, we will probably agree to put this 25 in ourselves, if we can keep this privilege. We will 5-12-08 43 1 probably get together and put the -- and give you the 2 dispenser. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not giving it to us. 4 MR. PALMER: You said -- you've already told me 5 that you would set it up if I -- if I got it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's to set up? I'm not 7 even going to go there, Mr. Palmer. We're not going to spend 8 any money on it. The issue -- 9 MR. PALMER: No, I'm not saying -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The issue is about people 11 cleaning up after their animals, period. 12 MR. PALMER: You use your crew to set it up where 13 you want it once we have the dispenser. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Bollier has his hand 15 up. 16 MR. BOLLIER: Sir, the stations that they're 17 proposing to put out, if I'm correct, it's going to have a 18 trash can, and the lid will probably have two sides where 19 there are rubber gloves on one side. Is that correct? 20 MR. PALMER: No. 21 MR. BOLLIER: Because if that is correct, we don't 22 need them in the park, because all that's going to end up is 23 we're going to have rubber gloves all over the park next. 24 MR. PALMER: It's not rubber gloves. It's a 25 biodegradable bag, which I have a sample of right here. And 5-12-08 44 1 these are not like HEB's, where they are plastic and 2 everything. These are biodegradable. You put it on your 3 hand like this and then pick up the poo, and then you pull it 4 inside out. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of strange to me -- 6 MR. PALMER: They're biodegradable. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of strange to me that 8 you're proposing all this today, and you had a whole year to 9 deal with this issue, and you haven't dealt with it. 10 MR. PALMER: Well, one of the reasons that we 11 haven't is because we were -- we're -- we want to live up to 12 our responsibility now. Since the County didn't seem to be 13 concerned about it, we weren't concerned about it either. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are concerned about it. 15 MR. PALMER: You're telling me now, see? You're 16 telling this group now that you're concerned about it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why would it be our 18 responsibility -- 19 MR. PALMER: Well -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For 12 months, we've had 21 this disagreement about -- why would it be our responsibility 22 to tell you to clean up after your dog? Why wouldn't that be 23 your responsibility? 24 MR. PALMER: It is. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 5-12-08 45 1 MR. PALMER: And I'm saying that if you'll give us 2 this opportunity to prove that we can keep this park clean -- 3 which we're doing now; you can go down there right now -- 4 that we will keep the privilege -- we will respect this 5 privilege that we have. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Mr. Palmer? 7 MR. PALMER: Just one last thing. I have a 8 picture -- you may have a picture of -- she may have made a 9 copy of this. It shows a man up in the left hand corner, if 10 you have that. I'm not sure if you made a copy of it. I'll 11 give this to you. He's got a baggie. It's a dog; it's 12 looking for -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 14 MR. PALMER: Okay? It shows one of the responsible 15 dog owners with a baggie following his dog. This was taken a 16 week ago Saturday. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a picture of you, 18 Mr. Palmer? 19 MR. PALMER: No. No, I'm much younger. 20 (Laughter.) Anyway, he -- once he picks up the dog poo, 21 where is he going to put it? As you see, all three of those 22 garbage cans that are in the park are all full and stuffed 23 with garbage. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to deal with 25 that issue next. 5-12-08 46 1 MR. PALMER: I think you're going to. But that is 2 one of the problems that we've had, is there's no place to 3 put it once we pick it up. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an excuse, not a 5 reason. 6 MR. PALMER: I didn't say it was. I said that's 7 one of the problems we have. Anyway, once again, I'm asking 8 that you give us some leeway. We have proved that we can 9 handle our dogs, and we can handle them responsibly in the 10 park. Now give us a chance to prove we can pick up our poo. 11 And we're doing that now. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Is there 13 anyone else? That's the only public participation form that 14 I have. Yes, ma'am? Please come forward, give us your name 15 and address, and tell us your take on this issue. 16 MS. EGLOFF: My name is Sherry Egloff. I'm 17 relatively new here in Kerrville. I come from a big city; I 18 come from the Chicago area, where we do clean up after our 19 dogs, and I'm used to always carrying the poo bag. You know, 20 and I walk down there with all these other folks and we enjoy 21 our animals and that. I agree with Bob that this issue -- I 22 was at this last meeting where we were talking about 23 aggression of dogs, I believe was the primary thing. We've 24 certainly handled that. I think our dogs are in good 25 control. And the issue of dog poo did not come up at that 5-12-08 47 1 time. I don't recall it at all. Anyway, now it's a new 2 issue, and we're willing to deal with that. I clean up after 3 my dog. It's something that, you know, we city folk do. But 4 my problem has been I have no place to put it. I'm not going 5 to carry this all the way home smelling to high heaven in my 6 car. I'd like a place to put it. And I think it would be a 7 relatively easy thing to put a garbage can near the entrance. 8 You know, you park the car when you come down there; you go 9 through the entrance into the park. If you put a garbage can 10 there, I think the majority of us are responsible people. We 11 would clean up after our dog, deposit it there, get in our 12 car and go home. But that's just my issue. Anyway, I hope 13 you will consider that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone 15 else that wishes to be heard on this item? I didn't know 16 whether you were coming this way or going that way. You're 17 coming this way. If you'll give us your name and address, 18 please? 19 MR. ALLISON: Yes. Richard L. Allison, 113 Arizona 20 Ash. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 22 MR. ALLISON: And I've been walking down at Flat 23 Rock for about three years, and there have been some people 24 with their dog, on leash or off leash, that don't pick up 25 after them. So, the leash is beside the point. A dog can go 5-12-08 48 1 on a leash as well as it can off a leash. I think that we 2 need to have the opportunity to take care of our pets as we 3 deem. If we're out of line, then we need to be told that. 4 Also, there's an awful lot of ducks and geese down there, and 5 who picks up after them, you know? That's it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there anyone 7 else that wishes to be heard on this particular issue? Yes, 8 sir, please come forward give us your name and address. 9 MR. PILLATZKE: David Pillatzke, 216 Hamilton 10 Street. Yeah, that was -- you know, I'm not really here for 11 this issue, but my question is -- is how does a leash law 12 control dog feces? I go to a lot of other parks. I have 13 children, you know; I make it an issue to go to clean parks 14 and stuff like that. But I really don't understand how -- if 15 you govern a leash, how that's going to control the people 16 that aren't responsible to pick up after themselves. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Good question, and I don't really 18 think there is a direct relevance. 19 MR. PILLATZKE: So, that's it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Cause and effect. Thank you, sir. 21 Anyone else wish to be heard? Okay. Well, we appreciate 22 your participation. Mr. Bollier, in the last couple of 23 weeks, have you noticed the feces problem lessening out 24 there? 25 MR. BOLLIER: To tell you the truth, Judge, I 5-12-08 49 1 haven't really paid a lot of attention to it the last week. 2 And the week before that, I can't say that I saw anybody 3 picking it up, but I can't say that it was any worse either, 4 sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Probably the most marked 6 effect, if there was a concerted effort being made the last 7 two weeks, would probably have shown up more last week than 8 the week before? 9 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If, in fact, that was occurring. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But you didn't make a survey in 13 order to determine whether or not, at least -- 14 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it decreased? Okay, thank you. 16 MR. BOLLIER: I did not. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex? 18 MR. EMERSON: Sir? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a memo from you 20 April 15th talking about dumping -- illegal dumping, and 21 that's state law, right? You know, so people that don't 22 clean up are in violation under this law? 23 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. And then on the 25 agenda item, there's a -- I guess an option to impose a leash 5-12-08 50 1 law? That's -- that's not currently under state law? We -- 2 that's something we have to proactively -- 3 MR. EMERSON: There's already a leash law in effect 4 for Kerr County under the Rabies and Animal Control Order 5 that exists. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, just a matter of enforcing 8 the current law? 9 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And posting appropriate 11 signs? 12 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to make a 14 comment right quick, and that is that I agree with the dog 15 folks in the sense that we need to give them an opportunity, 16 give them a chance to use the property and clean up after 17 themselves and all that. However -- and I'll vote that way 18 if I get the opportunity. But this ridiculous -- ridiculous 19 comment of we should contact you to tell you to go clean up 20 after your dog, Bob, is just -- I mean, you're out there, far 21 as I'm concerned. 22 MR. PALMER: What I meant was that we want to have 23 a working cooperation with the County, and so if you see 24 something that we could help you out with, you could call me 25 or any person here who has a dog that uses it. I'm not 5-12-08 51 1 trying to get y'all to -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 3 MR. PALMER: -- call me. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if that park was in my 5 precinct, I tell you, the police would be down there watching 6 you all 24 hours a day. I'm kidding. (Laughter.) But, you 7 know, it's just -- I don't think the government needs to be 8 telling you to clean up after your dog. I mean, that's -- 9 how silly could that possibly be? And you have -- it is 10 definitely a privilege, and I think -- I think that is an 11 important point, and I appreciate you using that word as 12 well. But it's a privilege that we get to use these 13 properties, and absolutely the most beautiful properties and 14 the most beautiful county and the most beautiful state. I 15 mean, that -- that's big-time pretty stuff down there. 16 And -- but I think, you know, that you guys need to have the 17 opportunity to -- you know, I think you're hearing -- hearing 18 this now. You have the opportunity to continue what you're 19 doing for some time frame, couple of months or something like 20 that. And if Mr. Bollier, that's responsible for mowing down 21 there, if he comes back and says -- let's see -- the poo is 22 hitting the fan -- (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll be the blade 24 underneath the mower. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be the blade 5-12-08 52 1 under the mower. If that's the case, then, you know, I don't 2 care if you have a place to ever take your dog. So, that's 3 where I'm at. I want to work with y'all and give you an 4 opportunity to do your -- do your thing. But if you don't -- 5 if you don't live up to your side of it, it's over, far as 6 I'm concerned. That's just me, though. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I'm -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one vote. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm, I think, of very similar 10 thinking. The -- the issue of this Court or anybody on this 11 Court having an obligation to notify someone that they must 12 comply with the law, I don't think is -- I don't think is as 13 a condition precedent to their having to accept 14 responsibility, that that's our obligation. Having said 15 that, I -- I think they should be afforded a reasonable 16 opportunity to demonstrate that they can be responsible pet 17 owners. And if it works, great. If it doesn't, we may have 18 to take the next step. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two comments. One, there's a 20 question about the dumping issue versus the leash issue. I 21 think they are tied together, because when a dog's on a 22 leash, it's a lot easier to see which dog is doing the other. 23 When they're running free, it's much harder from an 24 enforcement standpoint. I think it makes it a lot easier. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a lot easier to see 5-12-08 53 1 what? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What your dog just did. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The illegal dumping, which is 4 what it's actually called. 5 AUDIENCE: Poo. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Poo. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pooing? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or pooing, if you choose. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to come up with some 10 universal language here so I can stay with you guys. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're on the threshold of 12 that right now. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I was thinking pineapples. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other part is, my 15 recollection is that, somewhat similar to prior 16 conversations, that the -- the pooing or dumping issue has 17 been discussed, and I kind of think -- what I think of my 18 wife doing to my little boy sometimes, is that you get one 19 more chance. And that's -- you know, and after a couple of 20 those "one more chances," Karen usually says -- points to me 21 and says, "Take care of this." Well, we're at that point 22 almost right now. You'll have one more chance, in my mind, 23 but from -- after -- if there continues to be a problem, 24 there will be a leash law and there will be antidumping 25 enforcement. 5-12-08 54 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On that happy note, 2 Commissioner, I will come back with this issue three months 3 from today. And if it's the same or not improved, then we're 4 going to do something about it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I would recommend that 6 someone, not the County, figure out a way to get the baggies 7 available if they want to continue to use the park. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And not at taxpayers' 9 expense. 10 MR. PALMER: If we purchase a dispenser, will y'all 11 set it up in the park? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can get with 13 Mr. Bollier and figure out how best to do that. 14 MR. PALMER: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to tell you as 16 firmly as I know how to tell you, this is the last chance. I 17 will come back with this issue in three months. If this 18 issue -- if this particular problem is not corrected, period. 19 MR. PALMER: So, are we in a no-win scenario here? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. That's up to 21 you. 22 MR. PALMER: Sounds like it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's up to you. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a comment about this 25 issue. I promise to keep it short. It seems that areas that 5-12-08 55 1 are successful with having people pick up after themselves 2 have signs posted in a little bit nicer manner, with the word 3 "please" on it. Do this because it's the right thing to do, 4 but also because leave it like you found it or better so that 5 the people coming after you can enjoy it as well. You know, 6 and maybe make some nice -- nicer type signs rather than 7 threatening signs, and see what happens. Maybe just one 8 great big one, and have Road and Bridge Department make it 9 up. Because I do believe that -- I respond better if I'm 10 told and asked in a nice way than I do somebody trying to 11 cram it down my throat. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. That's 13 easily done. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all I have to say 15 about it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have a 17 motion to offer in connection with this particular agenda 18 item? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'll withdraw this for 20 now, Judge, and if it's not improved, I'll bring it back in 21 three months. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. We'll move to Item 4; 23 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to address -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a timed item. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, we do? Oh, mercy, yes. Way 5-12-08 56 1 over on the next page. Strike that. We'll go to Item 12, a 2 timed item for 10 a.m. It is past that now. Consider, 3 discuss, take appropriate action concerning the amendment of 4 the plat for Privilege Creek lots numbered 2 through 11. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one was that? Item 6 number? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Number 12. 8 MR. JACKSON: Good morning. David Jackson, 820 9 Main, on behalf of the developer, Boerne Falls. Let me give 10 you a little introduction, and then I'll hand out something. 11 We came to you -- oh, gosh, maybe a couple of three months 12 ago after a settlement had been reached in the litigation 13 with Kendall County. That litigation was essentially the 14 issue of how roads connect between counties. And to the 15 credit of the developer and Kendall County, there was a 16 resolution of how that's going to work. A part of that 17 resolution was to be sure that the Boerne Falls Subdivision 18 had private streets and it was a gated community. We came 19 with an amendment to the plat, felt like that was what was 20 needed. You passed it. We thank you for that. But we're 21 back because Kendall County feels that there's some other 22 things that they would like for me to present on behalf of 23 the developer to you, have you consider those things. If you 24 find that they're okay with you and your rules, then you 25 would adopt these matters and we would go on and finish the 5-12-08 57 1 settlement. 2 To be candid and balanced here, the judgment -- or 3 the settlement that has been reached depends a lot on what 4 you're willing to do. I've met with the County Attorney in 5 Kendall County. I think his requests are reasonable, or I 6 wouldn't be here, and I'll go over them in detail with you. 7 But that's the proposal; that's the action item, specifically 8 to consider a concept plan, which shows you the whole 9 development. And we're dealing only with Kerr County, not 10 Kendall County properties. And, secondly, to adopt an 11 amended plat which replaces the last amended plat. The only 12 changes are in the notes. There's no changes on roads, 13 there's no changes on lots, there's no changes on anything. 14 And I'll go over those notes. So, let me give you my 15 handouts and then we'll go over that. 16 The first set is five pages of an amended plat, 17 which is the same as the prior plat. The only difference is 18 on the first page, there is a set of notes, and I'll go over 19 those in detail. I think, Rex, you've already got a set of 20 all those, I think. The second is a master plan of the 21 development. It's not a plat, per se. It's called master 22 plat just for point of reference, but it's also so that 23 you -- so that you can see what the whole settlement's about. 24 These are big plats. You let me know what works better for 25 y'all. Perhaps maybe just a couple to look at? 5-12-08 58 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me just a second. 2 Lee Voelkel, would you like to come up here and look at all 3 this? 4 MR. VOELKEL: I can if you want me to. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, go back to sleep, 6 then. 7 MR. VOELKEL: Thank you. (Laughter). 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to apologize for waking him 9 up. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm sorry. 11 MR. JACKSON: I'll pass one over there. Here you 12 go. Here you go. I've got more copies here if you want. 13 The concept plan's probably where we ought to begin. And, 14 again, it shows you in green what's already been platted. 15 That isn't changing, except for some notes. There are some 16 notes on this master concept plan. Those notes essentially 17 say -- this is all Boerne Falls. It says that one lot's not 18 included, which wasn't in the amended plat. It makes 19 reference to some unowned property in Kendall County which is 20 not part of the lawsuit, and it basically says all of this is 21 part of Boerne Falls Ranch, a private gated subdivision. 22 This is what Kendall wants us to agree to and asks to you 23 consider, so that we all know what we're dealing with. It 24 involves a lot of potential lands that may be acquired, 25 but -- by option, but under the settlement agreement, there 5-12-08 59 1 will be an agreed judgment, a set of restrictions, and a road 2 maintenance agreement. Each of those documents are 3 referenced on each one of these so that anybody who buys 4 understands they're taking it subject to all of this, which 5 is the essence of what we're trying to accomplish. 6 The amendment on Page 1 of -- there's five pages, 7 but the only part of the amendment that's particularly 8 important is the part that deals with the notes, and here are 9 the changes that we've made in the notes. It's the standard 10 stuff that was on there before. First, we had a reference to 11 a homeowners' association. That wasn't exactly correct. 12 We've changed that to be Boerne Falls Property Owners' 13 Association. Second, instead of saying all roads are 14 private, we said all roads are private restricted access. 15 These are all language changes that Kendall County would like 16 for us to be clear about, and which we accept. I don't mean 17 to represent that we're doing something we're not willing to 18 do. We've agreed to do this. It adds a specific reference 19 to the lawsuit, final judgment, which is an agreed final 20 judgment, and those other documents, restrictions, and road 21 maintenance. 22 The other thing that was changed is, your standard 23 maintenance paragraph says this is private; you're not 24 responsible for maintaining it, and then you have some 25 language that says if somebody would bring it up to 5-12-08 60 1 standards, you might consider it. It's just your standard 2 paragraph. They didn't like that, because under our deal, we 3 can never have the County ever maintain. It's always got to 4 be private. We're willing to agree to that, so we just 5 pulled out the part that even gave the option that the County 6 could maintain it. That's it. Sorry to have to come back, 7 but understand that it's because we need to get this done. 8 We need to move on, and this developer needs to go on, plus 9 Kendall County needs to get this signed up. So, I 10 respectfully ask you to approve the amended plat and the 11 master plat, and we'll take it from there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, there are three things. 14 One is, you've added a note indicating that the property is 15 part of Boerne Falls Ranch? 16 MR. JACKSON: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That being a private, gated 18 subdivision. 19 MR. JACKSON: Yes, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Secondly, it's subject to the terms 21 of the agreed final judgment and the restrictions which were 22 promulgated in that, as well as the road maintenance 23 agreement there? 24 MR. JACKSON: Correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And you've modified our normal road 5-12-08 61 1 maintenance language which says these roads are private, Kerr 2 County has no obligation to maintain them, but if in the 3 future you want to -- you want Kerr County to have a 4 maintenance obligation, there's certain things you got to do. 5 You've merely deleted that "but in the future, if you want 6 Kerr County...," and that's been eliminated so that the roads 7 have no possibility of ever becoming public roadways? 8 MR. JACKSON: That's correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the verbiage, 11 restricted access roads? Private -- is that -- is that 12 added? 13 MR. JACKSON: It is. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's added to our -- 15 that's added language to our rules? 16 MR. JACKSON: Not to your rules, just to the 17 verbiage about private streets. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Why the words 19 "restricted access roads"? Why? 20 MR. JACKSON: It comes out of the language in the 21 settlement agreement that's been signed, and the Kendall 22 County Judge and County Attorney requested that specific 23 word, and I said I'd be happy to ask this Court, Kerr County, 24 to consider it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5-12-08 62 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: David, are we talking about 2 this amendment of plat is only for that which is shown in 3 green on this big map? 4 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the other portions of 6 this huge -- 7 MR. JACKSON: No. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- tract? 9 MR. JACKSON: Just like any concept plan, it's 10 merely a guide tool that we'll use. It'll be used in these 11 agreed judgments to show what it covers, and then when we 12 come back for plats, it's helpful to Road and Bridge to say, 13 okay, this is where that is in relationship to the whole 14 deal. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. Thank you. 16 MR. JACKSON: By way of reference, there's an 17 EMT -- in the settlement agreement, it's not that big a deal, 18 there's an EMT site. So, there's some things that are being 19 required of the developer as a matter of the Kendall County 20 lawsuit, but Kerr will become a beneficiary of that, because 21 those will be sites that are available to all the people in 22 both counties. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I certainly won't make 24 any comments on this. I will not make a comment, but I think 25 the Court is aware, from an affidavit I filed a long time 5-12-08 63 1 ago, that I have the neighboring ranch to the east, and 2 there's a contract that we have with the developer on part of 3 this. And I have a -- if we could have a recess, I'd like to 4 talk to the developer here, or Mr. Jackson. I have a 5 question about -- it's more on the personal side, but 6 certainly has an impact on this, what they're asking the 7 County to do. Just to keep from a -- my personal interest, 8 I'd like to visit with them before the Court makes a 9 decision, if that's appropriate. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, understood. We're not far 11 from our mid-morning break. You've given us everything you 12 want us to hear? 13 MR. JACKSON: Yes, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jackson. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another comment, I have not 16 seen any of this stuff prior. I mean, it's something the 17 developer has been working on, which is certainly what we 18 should be doing. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are we in a position 20 to take an action or not? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just requested that I visit 22 with -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, you want -- okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- visit with the attorney 25 before the Court votes, just to make sure that -- 5-12-08 64 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're all on the same page. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court wish at this 4 time to offer a motion with respect to this particular agenda 5 item? Let's go back, then, to Item 4. Consider, discuss, 6 and take appropriate action to address illegal dumping at a 7 Kerr County park. Mr. Bollier? 8 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Parks and dumping seems to be a 10 prominent issue today. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Well, this was back when -- all this 12 really started happening back when Mr. Holekamp was still 13 here, and we used to have -- used to have 55-gallon barrels, 14 I think five of them, down in that park. Well, it got so bad 15 that the illegal dumpers were coming in there, dumping 16 household garbage down there in the parks, so we decided to 17 take barrels out so that would give them less places to dump. 18 That's the reason there's only three barrels down there now. 19 And it seems like every -- well, it's doesn't seem like; it's 20 every single Monday morning when you go down there after a 21 weekend, there is household garbage there. You can go to the 22 Center Point -- Center Point park, same thing there. You can 23 go to the one -- the little boat ramp in Ingram, same thing 24 there. The people are throwing their household garbage out 25 in the parks. We have even -- on several different 5-12-08 65 1 occasions, B.J. has taken his boys, and we have even opened 2 up the sacks and looked through to try to find letters, 3 magazines, or anything with somebody's name on there. We 4 have not accomplished that; we have not found names. So, 5 that's where we're at. I mean, and it's -- I haven't talked 6 to B.J. this morning, but I'm sure that the same problem is 7 still there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this a -- an authority issue to 9 act upon that, or is this an enforcement issue? Okay, let me 10 state my question another way. Do we have the lawful 11 authority to take action against folks who deposit their 12 household garbage at these public parks? 13 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. There's a law that states 14 that they can't -- I mean, Ray can answer that question. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. GARCIA: That is illegal dumping, and it is 17 theft of service. We can enforce it just by Health and 18 Safety Code 365, and do it by volume. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. GARCIA: Whatever is a greater penalty. But, 21 again, it is trying to enforce that, having somebody down 22 there to do that. We have set up surveillance for 23 Mr. Bollier at the Ag Barn with our surveillance system 24 there. There's a possibility of doing it down at the park 25 also. 5-12-08 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're really talking about an 2 enforcement issue, and whether or not this Court wants more 3 resources than are presently being utilized to be 4 concentrated on that issue. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to see our 6 surveillance equipment utilized in this capacity. I know 7 it's been utilized in the county for other reasons. I think 8 this is a good use of it, and I think that if we can get a 9 few cases, it may go a long way to slowing down this problem. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have the capability 11 of setting the surveillance equipment up in the park? 12 MR. GARCIA: Yes, we do. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can those cameras follow 14 those dogs around? (Laughter.) 15 MR. GARCIA: They can do that too. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be a busy fellow. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going to be more than one 18 camera out there. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many trash barrels do 20 you have out at Flat Rock Lake Park now? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Three. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they're 55-gallon 23 drums, basically? 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. There's one down by the 25 boat ramp, there's one down by the big tree area, then 5-12-08 67 1 there's one down at the old boat ramp. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under normal circumstances, 3 how frequently do your people empty those trash barrels? 4 MR. BOLLIER: We pick those trash barrels up every 5 Monday, and we check those barrels every day. But, mainly, 6 we have to really empty them on Monday mornings. And the one 7 down by the -- the one down by the concrete boat ramp, we 8 have to check that, and usually dump it usually once every 9 day. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you recommending? 11 MR. BOLLIER: At this point, I really don't know 12 what to recommend, Commissioner. I don't want to put any 13 more trash cans down there, because if I put more trash cans 14 down there, that just gives them more places to dump trash. 15 So -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we -- you get 17 with Mr. Garcia and set up the surveillance and see what we 18 can -- see what can happen as a result of that. 19 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we'll talk about it 21 when we bring the dog poo issue back up again. 22 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hey, Tim? 24 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is -- I'm not real familiar, 5-12-08 68 1 but I think -- is the park not gated to where it disallows 2 vehicle traffic during the week? Or is it open for vehicle 3 traffic all in that circular area? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's open all the time, 5 Commissioner, except at night. I think they close -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, could we take and 7 restrict that -- restrict that to pedestrian traffic only? 8 And place those trash cans farther into the park, and not -- 9 not have this problem where people just can just drive by and 10 throw your trash. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good idea. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be -- that may be 13 something to look at. You also have the problem, I think you 14 got some barrels down where the fishermen go put their boats 15 in; is that correct? 16 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have any problems 18 down there, or is that pretty well contained? 19 MR. BOLLIER: They take -- that trash can sits 20 there; that's usually the first one that they fill up. But 21 it's not caused by the fishermen. I mean, it's caused by 22 just people dumping illegal trash there. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably the most accessible barrel 25 for them to just drive right up to. 5-12-08 69 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Unload, fill it up, leave. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have more chance of 4 catching somebody with one location where your vehicle 5 traffic is, and you won't have to worry about it if it's 6 pedestrian only. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that idea of keeping the 8 park locked weekends, so that -- you know, pedestrian traffic 9 only, and move the barrels fairly far in. That would solve 10 -- may solve a lot of the problem. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then there will be plenty of 12 space for the dog feces. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per your suggestion, let's 14 try that, Tim. Move the barrels to a different location, and 15 keep the -- keep the gate bar across the driveway so that 16 they limit vehicular traffic in that. 17 MR. BOLLIER: Do you want to do this just on the 18 weekends, though? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what you were 20 suggesting? No, all the time. 21 MR. BOLLIER: All the time. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm thinking we ought to try 23 it all the time and see what happens. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If people want to use the 25 park, there's plenty of places to park, and they can get out 5-12-08 70 1 of their vehicle and take their picnic with them or whatever. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any action to be offered? 3 You got some direction, okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just directions. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me see if we can't knock 6 out some of the these Road and Bridge items right quick. 7 We'll move to Item 8, to consider, discuss, take appropriate 8 action for final plat of A-OK Storage located in Precinct 2. 9 MR. ODOM: The preliminary plat for this commercial 10 property was approved by the Court on April the 28th. Since 11 no drainage study is required and no roads were built, it's 12 ready for final plat approval, and ask the Court's approval. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the final 14 plat for A-OK Storage. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Located in Precinct 2. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 24 to Item 9; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 25 approve final plat of Scenic Hills Summit East, and located 5-12-08 71 1 in Precinct 1. Mr. Odom? 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is a two-lot subdivision 3 done under the alternate plat process. Property was sold to 4 Mr. McBroom by metes and bounds under the exemption 1.03.C 5 for lots over 10 acres on an existing road. All requirements 6 have been met. Therefore, I recommend the plat be accepted 7 as presented. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At the recommendation of the 9 Road Administrator, I move for approval of the agenda item. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 13 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 18 to Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 19 concerning the concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch Road 20 around Mo Ranch located in Precinct 4. 21 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Bruce Motheral is here and 22 will represent Mo Ranch with any questions on this concept. 23 Mo Ranch has agreed to build a new road around their campus 24 and relocate Wilson Road -- Wilson Ranch Road, a 25 County-maintained road. Enclosed in your backup, you will 5-12-08 72 1 find a map showing the new location. When Mo Ranch has 2 completed the new road, Kerr County would accept the new road 3 for maintenance and abandon, vacate, and discontinue the old 4 road through their property. For those -- I'm sure 5 everybody's been out there. This is a -- something that's 6 been agreed to a long time, when I first came here. It's 7 finally being done. And the location is safer for the 8 children and for the adults that are in there when you have 9 to go through their complex. The concept -- I was talking to 10 Bruce. I have no problems, other than they're going in the 11 old entrance right there. My question is, why we could not 12 enter separately to the side off 1340? And I don't have an 13 answer to that, other than I'm in agreement with going around 14 and coming back. Unfortunately, they do not have any more 15 property to swing out the other side of the road. It's by 16 that narrow bridge, is where we're going to come out at, but 17 that's a whole lot better than the present situation. It's 18 safer. It will facilitate the movement of traffic in and 19 out. There's not much traffic at this time on Wilson Road, 20 so I think it's a very good move. But I would like for Bruce 21 to answer that question, why we couldn't go out to 1340 if 22 that land is available, as far as Road and bridge is 23 concerned. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When you and I visited out 25 there, I think we walked a lot of that area, and, you know, 5-12-08 73 1 we were hoping that this road could go in more of a direct 2 route and tie into Wilson Creek Road to Wilson Ranch Road. 3 And there, the canyon's just too deep; the slopes are too 4 great. It's cost-prohibitive to do that. This is the only 5 way that really is feasible. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: In your opinion, this is as good as 7 it's going to get? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not going to get any 9 better. I don't know of any way to get it any better, unless 10 -- unless the Wilson family had another way to get to their 11 property. That's about the only -- and there aren't many 12 choices to that, other than somehow going through Kerr 13 Wildlife Area. 14 MR. ODOM: The only thing is -- is, like I say, 15 that we did discuss at that point was that as you enter into 16 their -- their gated area there, if we could swing back down 17 1340, then I think that would make the traffic separate, 18 'cause you got two lanes of traffic, or two separate entities 19 trying to enter that narrow area, and I think if we move 20 over, the people that need to go Wilson Road could follow 21 around, and those going to Mo Ranch would continue to use 22 that entrance. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The main usage of that road 24 is going to be Mo Ranch. 25 MR. ODOM: Main usage is going to be Mo Ranch. 5-12-08 74 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Wilson family -- you 2 know, very -- very few members of that family now use that 3 road all the time, daily. Some of them -- I think there's 4 one -- one group that -- maybe two of them that live out 5 there. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everything in blue is a new 7 road, right? 8 MR. ODOM: Everything in blue is a new road. And 9 that -- that way, you basically have the loop where you have 10 access to the camp off of those -- off that loop, inward. 11 And, basically, it's just to kind of go around. It's a -- it 12 really will help on the safety issue, because of all the 13 people that are in there. And, you know, you get guests or 14 whatever going through there that are trying to get to Wilson 15 Ranch, that's kind of a safety issue, and I believe that this 16 is -- I don't know what else we can do. We walked the whole 17 thing and looked at all the options, and this is the only one 18 that looked like it made any sense and that was not 19 cost-prohibitive. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think there's a viable 21 option of having a separate entrance road? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I really don't think there's 23 that much traffic. I think it basically says Wilson family 24 this way, and anybody else that needs to access the camp, 25 that they pretty well have it marked off all the way around. 5-12-08 75 1 I don't think there's a better option. I mean, it would be 2 great if you could make a separate entrance, but I really 3 don't think, with no more traffic than there is or probably 4 will be for many years to come, that it's going to make that 5 much difference. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these planned for paved 7 roads? Paved roads? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 9 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, they'll be built to 11 county standards, and we'll maintain it when it's done, just 12 like we're doing now. But we're not paying for it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. That's a good 14 thing. Good thing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think what I'm hearing 16 from Leonard is, as a concept plan, he's suggesting that the 17 Court approve it, with a proviso that this be investigated to 18 see if there can be an option added for a separate access. 19 Is that what I'm hearing? 20 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will be -- we don't need 22 a motion for that, do we? This is just a concept? Or we 23 need to make a motion to that effect? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably do a motion. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I move that we approve 5-12-08 76 1 the agenda item, concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch Road 2 around Mo Ranch, and for them to continue to try and -- and 3 acquire a separate access. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second it, with a comment. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 6 or discussion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The comment is, I was a 8 commissioner out there years ago, probably 20 years ago, and 9 I tried something similar to this and could not pull it off. 10 Bruce, go get it. This is -- this is an extreme safety 11 issue. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's been that way. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's been that way forever. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we can get that 16 public road out of the middle of all those people, that's -- 17 it's unbelievable. But it was -- it was just really 18 difficult, and I couldn't pull it off, but I'm proud of you. 19 I'm behind you 100 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll also make it easier for 21 us to maintain it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 23 MR. ODOM: Whole lot easier without our equipment 24 going through, jeopardizing safety. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 5-12-08 77 1 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 7 quickly go to Item 11. 8 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, take appropriate 10 action to name a private road per 911 guidelines, located in 11 Precinct 4. 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is an unnamed road 13 located off Furr Road in Precinct 4, which is off Goat Creek 14 Cutoff. It meets 911 guidelines, and the homeowners want it 15 to be named Cheddy Lane. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's take 25 about a 15-minute recess. 5-12-08 78 1 (Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 4 were in recess. Let's return to item 12. That one was left 5 open, that being consider, discuss, take appropriate action 6 concerning amendment of plat for Privilege Creek lots 7 numbered 2 through 11. Mr. Jackson, you have something 8 further on that? 9 MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor. I've talked 10 to several -- Rex and I just visited, and then I just had a 11 conversation with Mike about a couple of probable changes 12 that I should propose to the master. The amended's fine, but 13 the master does a couple of things that are probably not 14 consistent with what Kerr County would like to do. And I 15 understand that, and I just need to report that to Kendall. 16 The first is, I think we're all having trouble with the word 17 "restricted," and I'd like to take the words "restricted 18 access" off. I'm looking for it; it's on here someplace. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on -- 20 MR. JACKSON: It may actually be on the amended. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It is on the amended. 22 MR. JACKSON: And just go back to private. I 23 understand there's issues with the County Surveyor, and Mike 24 has pointed out that that language may not -- may be -- I 25 think one of the members of the Court even said, "What does 5-12-08 79 1 that mean?" -- Commissioner Baldwin. And the concern is, 2 what does that -- it shouldn't be that Kerr County officials 3 can't get in and out or whatever. And, to me, it's all just 4 verbiage, and so I'd like to amend what my proposal is to 5 delete that part. And I think the word is on the amended. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, under Item 8. 7 MR. JACKSON: Item 8 says they are to be private 8 restricted access roads. We will change that per Kerr's 9 request to be private roads, strike the words "restricted 10 access." Is that right, Mike? Okay. That's what Lee 11 Voelkel is suggesting. In that same vein, on the same 12 notion, the master plan, according to the settlement 13 agreement, has an EMS and fire station. It's about midway 14 through Boerne Falls, and it shows that Turkey Knob at that 15 point, which is Lane Valley extension, is a private street. 16 And after having talked to Rex and conferring with Mike and 17 so forth, I think we don't want the gate to be shown, because 18 we don't want it to be a gated community at that point to get 19 to the fire station. It has to be public. We don't want to 20 have to go through a gate for emergency services. And, so, 21 knowing that we're going to have that EMS and fire station, 22 which is for the whole area, that's the whole idea, we want 23 that to be outside the gate. 24 Now, the rest of the subdivision may be private and 25 gated and all that as far as roads and so forth, but I want 5-12-08 80 1 to take off of the master plat that's part of your record 2 that reference to a gate. We'll locate that later. And I 3 want you to -- I want to make the change that private street 4 for Turkey Knob Road would be changed to public outside the 5 green part. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. So, you were 7 talking about amendments to Number 8. Are you also talking 8 about an amendment to Number 9? 9 MR. JACKSON: No. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? 11 MR. JACKSON: I don't think so. It stays the same. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 MR. JACKSON: That Boerne Falls Ranch is a private, 14 gated subdivision; it's just a question of how it's gated and 15 how we all enter. I know from a lot of the work I've done in 16 this county, I now realize that having public emergency 17 vehicles have access to a site where you have particularly a 18 fire station or EMS station, you want to be sure you get 19 there. You don't want to have to be driving through gates, 20 and I've just got to make that correction in our dealing with 21 Kendall County. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MR. JACKSON: So, with those two corrections, which 24 I would make part of the record and give to the clerk, I'd 25 ask you to approve the amended with that wording change, and 5-12-08 81 1 approve the master plat. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And the gate which is shown in 3 the -- 4 MR. JACKSON: Lower. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- right-hand lower corner -- 6 MR. JACKSON: It stays. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That one stays? 8 MR. JACKSON: It stays, because that's more of a 9 Kendall issue about having a gate going into Kendall County. 10 I know that's important to Kendall County. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're talking about the 12 one -- 13 MR. JACKSON: At the other end. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- up in the upper left? 15 MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to delete? 17 MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, is this 19 one of those issues you're not voting? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct, I'm not voting 21 or speaking. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for approval. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval as indicated, with the corrections as requested and 5-12-08 82 1 modifications as requested. Further question or discussion 2 on that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let the 9 record reflect that Commissioner Letz neither participated in 10 the discussion or the voting. We'll now move to Item 5; 11 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on proposed 12 changes to the courthouse square. Mr. Bollier? 13 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. I put this on here because I 14 have found a problem out in the front yard, off the front 15 steps here where our sidewalk goes out to the front. It goes 16 between those two oak trees, and the roots are pushing that 17 sidewalk up. And, you know, I have thought about taking -- 18 ripping out the old sidewalk, coming in there, digging around 19 the roots, putting sand around there and building that up, 20 and then reinforcing that with concrete and pouring more 21 concrete, but how long that will last before the roots push 22 that back up, I have no idea. I mean, I don't -- I don't 23 know that. So, my recommendation -- my recommendation was to 24 try to redirect that sidewalk, and I came up with an idea. I 25 mean, it's just an idea, and that's all it is. And, I mean, 5-12-08 83 1 I'm up for any kind of idea to just try to -- try to redirect 2 that sidewalk around those trees and from the middle of those 3 roots. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, this is a -- just one element 5 of the larger -- 6 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- plan that we've discussed putting 8 together with regard to the entire courthouse grounds; 9 drainage, electrical, conduit issues, irrigation and so 10 forth, correct? 11 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. And -- well, my idea is, I 12 really need to get this sidewalk in place before I go any 13 further with, like, the -- like, upgrading my sprinkler 14 system, irrigation part of it. So that way, I know I can go 15 ahead and put sleeves underneath there, and that sidewalk is 16 there, and then I can go ahead and redirect my -- my 17 sprinkler systems and -- and my electrical conduit that's 18 going through there. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I met with Tim the other day 20 for a little while about this. Leonard came over talking 21 about what to do with some of this driveway area that's 22 deteriorated pretty badly out here. And one of the ideas we 23 came up with on the -- on the front sidewalk was to take and 24 split that off, to make it go both over to the west area, as 25 well as coming over this way and kind of looping it through 5-12-08 84 1 those trees where you eliminate your root problem, and then 2 blocking that off in the front, putting some hedge there or 3 something, and then maybe do some real improvement to that 4 little area where we have various functions. But, basically, 5 block the direct access and just divert it around either side 6 of the hedge, and it would eliminate the tree root problem. 7 If you don't do that, you're going to have a tree root 8 problem from now on. And it just doesn't make any sense 9 to -- to spend money on something that's not going to kind of 10 cure the problem for the long-term. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's your little drawing? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Got it right here, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, is that a private deal? 14 MR. BOLLIER: Well, I didn't make copies for 15 everyone. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That'll do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The guy stands up there and 18 wants something, and he's not willing to share. God. 19 MR. BOLLIER: Well, I knew it was going to come 20 out, Commissioner Baldwin. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe it's a secret plan. 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it? 24 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. No, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anyway -- 5-12-08 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Good news is, it will -- it will get 2 rid of the tree root problem. The bad news is, folks will be 3 walking around and then having to come back in in order to 4 get to the main front -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think they can come either 6 way, be able to go and access to the west or be able to go 7 and access around to the east side, and they can still just 8 come and go right in the front door. So, you know, you'll 9 have all the options, but you still -- you eliminate one of 10 the ongoing problems. It is not going to be solved by going 11 back where it is now. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option -- I've talked 13 to Tim about it. We've looked, and this -- and I think the 14 phasing -- I've been working with him a lot on what needs to 15 be done when, and this is clearly one of the first things 16 that has to be decided. This option would certainly work, 17 going around. Another option, to keep the access there, may 18 be -- and I say "may," 'cause I don't know if it would work 19 or not -- is to -- not necessarily a bridge, but suspend that 20 section through using Trex or something like that, and not 21 having anything anchored to the ground over those tree root 22 problems. You may be able to go -- Trex is a fiberglass or 23 plastic type substitute; looks really good for patios and 24 things, and you can make a walkway out of that. Because the 25 actual -- Bruce and Tim are -- and I agree totally, that 5-12-08 86 1 putting concrete back in that same location, that concrete is 2 not going to work long-term. There may be some other options 3 of bridging that area, which is probably about 20, 30 feet 4 that you got to cross. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then you have a problem with 6 maintenance underneath the area, I would think. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, it's -- you 8 know, moving the sidewalk around, as long as it doesn't -- 9 looking at Tim's drawing, I think it probably works the best. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's no roots out -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You go in between the trees, 12 get away from them. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You go pretty far outside 14 where the roots are. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the only problem with 16 this thing is we're asking people to walk off out in the 17 pasture to get to the front door. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to have to walk 19 an extra eight or ten steps on either side. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we would -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the wellness program 22 at work. (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The man's thinking quick on his 24 feet, isn't he? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. That was good. 5-12-08 87 1 Now, what if they have their dogs on a leash? Off a leash? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And their gloves on. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Are you talking about 4 abandoning the straight sidewalk that comes in -- straight 5 in? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, just -- just the section 7 that accesses the circular part. Just where the -- where the 8 problem is with the roots. You still use it, but veer it off 9 on either side. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're bending the 20 -- or 11 about 20 to 30 foot closest to where the asphalt starts, that 12 area. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what are we -- I 15 agree, let's do it. What are we supposed to do? Is there a 16 court order, or is there a head nod or what? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor wants to be on the 18 construction crew, I think. 19 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't want to be on the 20 construction crew. But, you know, I'd really like to have 21 the site plan of everything we want to do before we -- to 22 make sure we have enough money before we start redirecting, 23 just to make sure that we have sufficient funds to take -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not an issue, no. We 25 don't have to have the whole plan done to do what the initial 5-12-08 88 1 needs are, and then go from there with an overall plan that 2 addresses what needs to be done first. That has been a 3 problem for a long time. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, everything else that 5 that's going to do is contingent on where the sidewalk's 6 going to be. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The sidewalk is going to be 8 there no matter what. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do agree we need to 10 get this done, and then the master plan needs to hit the 11 table or whatever. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Funding issues. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's done -- and I've 15 been working with Tim a little bit on some of the 16 specifications for some of the parts of it, and, you know, to 17 me, there may be a limit as to how far you go on this -- this 18 part of it, which is the sod -- sod and some of the 19 irrigation work, to where you stop that, and flower beds. 20 That's where you cut at the end. If you start getting tied 21 up with some of these things, like the -- and the electrical 22 just flat has to be done. And then after that, you go to 23 the -- the things that Maintenance can do on a more, I guess, 24 annual basis if we don't have enough funds for it. But, 25 clearly, the electrical, which is a safety issue, and the 5-12-08 89 1 sidewalk, which is safety and just has to be done. I just 2 think we have to keep in mind that as we're doing these, this 3 portion, put sleeves in place and do things of that nature to 4 make the electrical and irrigation and things of that nature 5 more easy to accomplish. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not talking about a lot 7 of money for this. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't think so. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just think you probably 10 ought to get two or three bids on it, see what -- what it is, 11 and let's make a decision and move forward. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fine with me. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that your motion? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we authorize the 15 Maintenance Department, Tim Bollier, to go out and get bids 16 for concrete work for -- for the redirection of two sidewalks 17 in the front of the courthouse. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 20 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be noted that 22 these -- it is not anticipated that these are going to be 23 over $25,000, so we're not talking about that formal bid 24 process. We're just talking about calling up and getting 25 bids. 5-12-08 90 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Estimates. Getting 3 estimates. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney? 5 MR. EMERSON: Only thing I would caution in this, 6 'cause I have no involvement -- take it for what it's worth, 7 but if the total project you're looking at is $25,000 or 8 more, you can't piece it out in segments to avoid the total 9 bid process. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Even if it drags forward into 11 more than one year? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in talking with Tim, 13 my recommendation is -- with him is that a large portion of 14 it be done in-house. And I said that I'd be glad to, you 15 know, advise on that part, and just -- you know, I think the 16 electrical -- it's one project, but then again, to me, it 17 isn't one project. I really don't know how you can bid the 18 whole project, 'cause, I mean, it's not -- there's an 19 electrical component. There's a landscaping component and 20 then there's sidewalk and stuff. I mean, under the logic of 21 there has to be a master plan, well, then you have to add the 22 gazebo in on it, because this is all -- every time. We've 23 got to draw a line as to what we're talking about, in my 24 mind. I don't think we're trying to circumvent the bidding 25 rules at all. I think the landscape portion of the thing, 5-12-08 91 1 sod and all that, if it's not done in-house, that will have 2 to be bid. But I really don't see landscaping different than 3 doing sidewalks. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much of this work can 5 we do in-house? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if there's -- if the 8 Sheriff can free up some trustees, or -- and/or we have some 9 community service workers, I think a large -- the landscaping 10 portion can almost all be done in-house. I think we have the 11 equipment in the Maintenance Department out at the Ag Barn, 12 or certainly at Road and Bridge for some skid steer things. 13 The -- it can be -- I can lay it out. You know, that can be 14 done in-house. The only thing that can't, in my mind, be 15 done in-house is the electrical part of it, or some of the 16 electrical part. A lot of electrical can probably be done 17 in-house, but some of the electrical and, obviously, that 18 kind of construction cannot be done. And I think you have to 19 look at, you know, the landscape planning. I don't know how 20 you -- I don't know if you include the in-house part, but if 21 you start looking at that, you got to go back and include all 22 the tree trimming we've done this year. It's all one project 23 that we're looking at of upgrading the courthouse yard. And, 24 you know -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't know what that project is 5-12-08 92 1 really going to be. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't have a clue, so we do 3 one step at a time. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks to me -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing we know we want do is do 6 the redirection of this sidewalk. Otherwise, how could we do 7 anything? Where does that leave us, Mr. County Attorney? 8 MR. EMERSON: Without more details, I couldn't tell 9 you. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're only talking about -- 11 MR. EMERSON: It's a fact determination issue, and 12 it just depends on what your plan includes. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess we don't really have 14 a total plan. What we're going to do is one project at a 15 time under normal maintenance, basically. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All you're talking about right 17 now is fixing up a sidewalk, a maintenance issue. Not 18 talking about anything else, so why would it go any farther? 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If that's the case, we 21 couldn't have done anything around here. For an annual 22 budgeting process, -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I view it as a maintenance 24 issue. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- I'm not even sure I know 5-12-08 93 1 what we do on a normal basis. Anything under 25,000, we'd go 2 out, get a couple prices, move forward. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the only reason -- only 4 reason that I told him to put it on the agenda, only reason 5 is we're moving the location of a sidewalk. If it was just 6 replacing it where it is, I don't think it even needs to come 7 to the Court, but it's talking about changing the location to 8 get rid of those -- or to get around the roots, so that's why 9 it's here, in my mind. 10 MS. HARGIS: Another question, are you planning to 11 do this out of your regular budget, or are you planning to do 12 this out of the loan proceeds? If he's planning to do it out 13 of the loan proceeds, it's a capital project. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon the -- the type of 15 improvement, I think it's going to be a capital item. Now, 16 if he was patching a piece of that sidewalk, that obviously 17 would be a maintenance issue. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what are we saying? We 19 need to go to bid on the entire project, and not pieces of 20 the project? Is that what I'm hearing? 21 MS. HARGIS: I'm going to -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody tell me what I'm 23 hearing. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess if we're going to -- 25 the intent has always been to do a lot of this in-house, 5-12-08 94 1 which I don't know how you bid an in-house project. 2 MR. EMERSON: I don't know the capital side, the 3 finance end, so that's up to Jeannie. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we authorize that for 5 her to do whatever she's directed to do. That's the way I 6 see it. It's not that she has the option to tell us how 7 we're going to do it or how much it's going to cost. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Within the law. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just my thought. May 10 be a bad one. We authorize the expenditure of funds, do we 11 not? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do. Let's do it. I 13 think, you know, if we get anywhere near $25,000, we need to 14 cease and desist and get some kind of authority to tell us 15 who we are and why we're doing it and all that stuff. But 16 right now, let's rock and roll. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a motion on the table? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second, for Mr. Bollier to go 20 get some bids on replacing a portion of a sidewalk. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 23 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 24 signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-12-08 95 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 4 Item 6; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to obtain 5 permission to proceed before pouring concrete for the 6 maintenance shop and Fair Association storeroom at the Hill 7 Country Youth Exhibit Center. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exact same issue. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty much, it would seem. Is this 10 all the concrete we're going to pour out there? Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Today. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Get a zipper. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's under 25 also. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One's 14 and one's 17. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there any definite plans of 17 pouring more concrete out there in that barn? 18 MR. BOLLIER: There should be down the line, but 19 for the -- for the 4-H and their concession stand and 20 bathrooms. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's going to be all their 22 stuff, isn't it? 23 MR. BOLLIER: That will be all their stuff. And as 24 far as I know, this is all that I'm supposed to -- this is 25 all that I'm supposed to be doing out there. 5-12-08 96 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the concrete the County's going 2 to pay for out there in that barn, this is it? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. No, we've 6 got to decide which one we want. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we're not going to give you the 8 money. Next question? Come forward. Twenty-five words or 9 less, three-syllable maximum. Name and address. 10 MR. SNOW: For the record, my name is Billy Snow, 11 760 Johnson Drive, Kerrville. I'm here representing the 4-H 12 Horse Club, and our concern on that item that y'all just 13 hurriedly ran through is that this also ties in with possibly 14 one other -- relocating our 4-H horse club arena, that we're 15 -- we're concerned on the plan and who has to foot the bill. 16 We've been told that in order to relocate the arena, that was 17 -- we were in agreement to work with the Court and committee, 18 but that that was going to require replacing restrooms and 19 our concession stands in doing so, and that comes under 20 concrete that's needed in the west end of that barn in order 21 to relocate where y'all have indicated that the arena would 22 be relocated. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That comes under a later 24 agenda item, and also, we're not concreting that area that 25 we're thinking in the future will be the restroom and 5-12-08 97 1 concession stand area. That is being left out because of not 2 having the plan drawn for that area, 'cause that requires a 3 lot of plumbing. This does not include that area. This is 4 only for -- for maintenance, and possibly for Fair 5 Association, and other storage for possibly community 6 service. 7 MR. SNOW: Is there a master plan that we can be 8 shown, Commissioner Oehler? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You will have that whenever 10 we get it developed, but we do not have it at the moment. 11 We're talking about this one item of having a maintenance 12 shop and storage for Fair Association, and another small 13 area. It has nothing to do with moving the 4-H around. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we're talking about is 15 another agenda item. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's coming later. 17 MR. SNOW: All right. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we're going to 19 talk about in the later agenda. 20 MR. SNOW: I'll hold my questions till then, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's about 6:30 tonight. 22 (Laughter.) 23 MR. WALSTON: Is that -- let me clarify what I'm 24 not understanding, 'cause I understood that that part of the 25 concrete was going to be costed -- was going to be charged to 5-12-08 98 1 the 4-H, or we were going to have to pay for it. We're not? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Totally wrong. Totally 3 incorrect. 4 MR. WALSTON: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paul, do you want to wait for 6 the next item? 7 AUDIENCE: Does the Hill Country District Junior 8 Livestock Show have storage in that -- in this plan? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not in that building, no. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not in this building. 12 AUDIENCE: It did when we talked -- when you came 13 to the board that night, you said that we would have a 14 portion of storage in there. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, there could be. 16 AUDIENCE: We have our container back there, but 17 it's stocked. It's -- you know, it's full, and we're losing 18 stuff on a daily basis out there. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From the container? 20 AUDIENCE: No, not from the container, but through 21 the facility, because we don't have enough places to store 22 anything. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The storage for the Stock Show 24 Association is addressed in the other agenda item, in the 25 master plan. 5-12-08 99 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This doesn't have anything to 2 do with that. 3 AUDIENCE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This particular building and 5 this concrete. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Where are we? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only thing that I see 8 wrong with this deal, doing it at this point, is that we do 9 not have a written agreement with the Fair Association that 10 they're going to reimburse the cost or pay for this when it 11 happens. And a large part of this -- about possibly $6,000 12 of this money would be -- would be spent for the Fair 13 Association on their behalf until we be reimbursed. I feel 14 like we need to get a letter from them guaranteeing that they 15 will reimburse for this. It all needs to be poured at one 16 time. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a much better way to do 19 it. But, at the same time, I do believe we need to have 20 something in writing from them that says that they are going 21 to pay for that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think they either pay 23 for that portion or they don't get a place -- they don't get 24 the use of the space. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's another way. 5-12-08 100 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there needs to be 2 some sort of a letter of understanding. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be in favor of -- I think 4 we -- I don't want to wait on them. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If Maintenance is ready to go, 7 I think we just send them a letter and say you pay or you're 8 not going to use it. It's that simple. They can do 9 something else. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll designate it for some 11 other purpose. But that -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've indicated a 13 willingness to do that? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They will. They're just 15 trying to acquire grant money to pay for it. They have -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Trying to acquire grant 17 money? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have not acquired that 19 yet. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a whole different 21 horse of a different color. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have, I know for a fact, 23 made application to Peterson Foundation for the money. I did 24 talk to Brian Oehler the other day. He called to ask me 25 questions about what they were wanting to do, and so he 5-12-08 101 1 knows, you know, the County's side of it, as well as, you 2 know, shoring up what they gave him. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I go back -- to me, we do 4 this, and if -- you know, if they want to use part of it, 5 they need to reimburse. But I think it's in our interest to 6 get the one single slab poured for this portion of that 7 building, which is the remainder of that side. And it will 8 be used for storage for the county or somebody else, maybe a 9 workshop. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- what is this 11 other agenda item we keep referring to? Where is that? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1.17, -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we're talking about. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The components of the plan that 16 our designer, Peter Lewis, is working on, kind of giving him 17 a little bit more exact direction on sizes and things of that 18 nature. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, Rex and the Auditor's 20 comments earlier make -- makes me wonder if we're really not 21 stepping out of bounds here. Whereas, is this part -- is 22 this Number 6 item that we're dealing with right now, is that 23 a part of the big plan? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes and no. 5-12-08 102 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not really. I mean, the 2 thing -- (Laughter.) What we're talking about -- all right, 3 you know, it's real simple. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the murkiest -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not talking about 6 spending lots of county money. The later plan will be done 7 with grant money, or it just won't be done. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see, yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whichever way you look at 10 it, this is expenditure of county funds. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's -- this is something 13 that is independent of the -- Item 17. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the bidding law -- 15 let's say that we're going to do a large project, and some of 16 that money comes from grants. Does that -- do you add that 17 in and include it? Does that count toward the bidding law, 18 the 25 grand? 19 MR. EMERSON: Let me give you this analogy. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MR. EMERSON: You decide that you're going to build 22 a house, and you take the first part of your money and you 23 throw up the roof and the four walls, and you stay under 24 25,000. Then you come back three months later and you put in 25 the plumbing, and then you come back three months later and 5-12-08 103 1 you put in the electricity. It's all part of the same 2 project. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm asking. 4 MR. EMERSON: When you piecemeal it -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of see that here on 6 this issue. I don't on the sidewalk. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, I see it different. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it as a -- you buy a 10 piece of land and you build a workshop on that property, and 11 then maybe in three, four years, you decide to build a house. 12 Those are two independent projects. 13 MR. EMERSON: But you're not building a workshop. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are. 15 MR. EMERSON: You put in concrete -- I forgot how 16 many months ago, what the dollar amount was, but you put in 17 concrete on, say, the right side of the building, and now 18 you're talking about putting in concrete on the left side of 19 the building. It's the same building. There's not that much 20 time frame in there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other one was done by a 22 private entity, 4-H, or public -- private -- 23 MR. EMERSON: If it's not public money, that's 24 fine. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's not public money, 5-12-08 104 1 that's fine. That answers my question. 2 MR. EMERSON: If you're spending the taxpayers' 3 money, you need to make sure you adhere to the bid 4 requirements. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that answers my 6 question. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was -- it was county money; 8 Bruce corrected me on that. It was done, you know, with 4-H. 9 The 4-H portion of that was they're going -- they're paying 10 for everything above the concrete. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we have two bids, but 12 maybe we need to reauthorize them and go about it the proper 13 way. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we bid -- the first one, we 15 bid; we put out for bid. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, the first one formally. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're having to bid this as 18 a separate -- this is really -- it's -- it may be part of the 19 same thing as a whole, but it's a separate project. But it 20 still has to be bid. The first one was bid. This one has 21 been bid, but maybe not the way we should have approached it. 22 MR. EMERSON: If you want to piecemeal it like 23 that, then you need to follow the bid procedures on each 24 individual piece. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 5-12-08 105 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not a problem. 3 MR. EMERSON: Can't be informal bid procedures. 4 You need to follow the statute. 5 MR. BOLLIER: That's what we've been doing. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we didn't authorize that 7 to be done. We just got prices to get an idea what it was 8 going to cost. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what we need to do is 11 authorize to go out for bid. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For specification of what was 14 bid here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that do it? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Resubmit bids and set a time 17 to -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Every step we take now, we 19 just go out for bids, and that satisfies the -- heck, yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's do it the right way. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Heck, yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nobody wants to do it the 23 wrong way. I've already been involved in something -- I'm -- 24 you know, I should be the one that takes the lead on this. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You had you some of that, didn't 5-12-08 106 1 you? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I had a -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You should be the 4 whistle-blower, right? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, then, the motion should be that 6 we authorize Mr. Bollier to proceed to solicit bids for this 7 -- this project. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And advertise appropriately 9 in the paper. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the appropriate bidding 11 statutes. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For 4,400 square feet of 13 concrete work to be done at the Ag Barn within the pavilion. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's nothing else that we 15 can include in that advertisement at this point? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know of anything, 17 'cause everything else we can -- we can do in-house. All we 18 got to -- you know, it's a very minor bit of welding and put 19 up some tin and put some doors in. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Actually, this will give 21 you time to get the Fair Association thing nailed down. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to put a time frame 5-12-08 107 1 on this? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bid under the current 3 requirements. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Time frame's there. I have a motion 6 and a second as indicated to go out for formal bids in 7 connection with the bidding procedures. Question or 8 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 9 signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's go to 14 Item 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 15 submitting AACOG Solid Waste grant application to apply for 16 grant money to purchase one police package vehicle for the 17 Environmental Health Department. 18 MR. GARCIA: We're going to apply for Category 2 19 again. We applied last year for Category 2 under the Solid 20 Waste grant. I think everybody has seen the pictures from 21 this past Friday except for Commissioner Letz, and I just 22 want to -- look at the tabbed yellow there, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I haven't seen it either. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think everybody needs to go 25 look at this to show how you do not haul salvage materials to 5-12-08 108 1 San Antonio. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, those are pictures we 3 saw the other day? Oh my gosh. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the official Kerr County 5 solid waste hauler? 6 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's running on a prayer. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I want an 8-by-10 glossy of 9 that one. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney has -- 11 MR. EMERSON: I just have one quick question. 12 Since this is an Environmental Control vehicle, is it going 13 to have a little plastic bag dispenser on it? (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He needs one of those giant 15 magnets that comes on a crane to take care of this one. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of a sudden, he's 17 become a stand-up comic. 18 MR. GARCIA: We can do that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you ought to pass 20 those around. There's some people in here that will be 21 interested to see those. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ray, I have a question of 23 you. Last time we -- or maybe it wasn't the last time, but 24 on a prior occasion when we filed for some -- probably an 25 application for consideration of a Solid Waste grant, one of 5-12-08 109 1 the problems was that we didn't have a full-time Solid Waste 2 officer. That no longer is the problem; is that correct? 3 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All we need is an 6 authorization to apply for some grant money. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I so move. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That includes me signing the 13 application? I assume that he needs me to sign it. 14 MR. GARCIA: Sir? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that the Judge sign the 16 application. 17 MR. GARCIA: I'll bring that up to you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 25 Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 5-12-08 110 1 approve proclamation declaring May National Historical 2 Preservation Month. Commissioner Baldwin. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I would 4 like to quickly read the proclamation. Whereas, historic 5 preservation is an effective tool for managing growth, 6 revitalizing neighborhoods, fostering local pride, and 7 maintaining community character while enhancing livability; 8 and whereas, historic preservation is relevant for 9 communities across the nation, both urban and rural, and for 10 Americans of all ages, all walks of life, and all ethnic 11 backgrounds; and whereas, it is important to celebrate the 12 role of history in our lives and the contributions made by 13 dedicated individuals in helping to preserve the tangible 14 aspects of the heritage that has been -- that has shaped us 15 as a people; and whereas, quote, "This Place Matters", 16 unquote, is the theme for National Preservation Month 2008, 17 co-sponsored by the Kerr County Historical Commission and the 18 National Trust for Historic Preservation; therefore, be it 19 resolved that the Kerr County Commissioners Court does 20 proclaim May 2008 as National Historic Preservation Month, 21 and call upon the people of Kerr County to join their fellow 22 citizens across the United States and the fruited plains in 23 recognizing and participating in this special observance. 24 May 12, 2008, Commissioners Court. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5-12-08 111 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You moved adoption -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the proclamation? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a motion, I'm 5 sorry. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for 7 adoption of the proclamation. Question or discussion on the 8 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 14, 14 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 15 participation in Energy Management Services Assistance 16 through the State Energy Conservation Office. I put this on 17 the agenda pursuant to an invitation by the State Energy 18 Conservation Office. They will send their analyst over here 19 at no cost to us to talk about things that we might do to 20 save energy. And this could go hand-in-hand with the pending 21 issue we got on our windows too, I would think. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a great start, I'll 23 tell you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 5-12-08 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 4 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 9 to Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 10 acquiring laptop computers for members of Commissioners 11 Court, and installation of necessary computer cabling in 12 Commissioners Courtroom to permit members of Court to 13 participate in electronic budgeting process, and utilization 14 of computers by members of the Court for Commissioners Court 15 proceedings, administrative, judicial, and other appropriate 16 applications. I put this item on the agenda by virtue of our 17 new budgeting process that is -- is going to be used for the 18 first time this year. It's going to be all electronic. 19 There's been considerable training on it already. It's the 20 Incode system, part of our financial package that we've got a 21 significant investment in. Everybody's going to submit their 22 requests electronically. They're going to be reviewed 23 electronically. They're going to be studied, discussed. 24 There's not going to be any of those piles and piles of 25 paper. And if we're going to be effective in being able to 5-12-08 113 1 know what's going on, we probably need a way to see what 2 we're dealing with as we go through the multiple workshops 3 and as we finalize things on the budget. And then, 4 subsequent to that, possibly down the road, we can go 5 paperless on our agenda and other incidental needs that can 6 be used for official business purposes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Possibly down the road? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, down the road. That could be 9 this afternoon. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did they come in? 11 MR. TROLINGER: I checked the loading dock. No, 12 they're not here. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a good idea, 14 Judge. It's long overdue. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the only question 16 is -- and I've got to -- I got to confess, I don't see as 17 good as I used to. The size of the screen is becoming more 18 and more important to me, so I think that that is -- that may 19 be the only debate, far as I'm concerned. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that; I think 21 Option 2 is a better option. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The other thing is, on -- on 23 budgeting and spreadsheets, I'm concerned about, with the 24 smaller screen, getting some cutoff on either end, whereas 25 with the larger one, you can -- you can get a full view of 5-12-08 114 1 the -- of the numbers that you can clearly read and make sure 2 that you got it all the way from left to right. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, the 17-inch option is a wide 4 screen, so that makes it better for spreadsheet viewing. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Which, essentially, our 6 budget is, wouldn't you think? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, it is. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has somebody looked at Incode 9 on that 17-inch screen and made sure that 17 is adequate 10 before we buy these laptops? 11 MS. HARGIS: No, we haven't. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be -- 13 MR. TROLINGER: Everyone that uses the financial 14 system now has a 17-inch or larger screen. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the "or larger" is what 16 worries me. 17's? Okay? 17 MR. TROLINGER: 17 is standard. 18 MS. HARGIS: 17 should be wide enough, save and 19 except if we add the additional four columns for each one of 20 the Commissioners. But I still think we can have it in a 21 font that you can read, that'll be sufficient, 'cause we want 22 to give you the availability of being able to put your 23 numbers in as well. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 MS. HARGIS: Everybody will have the opportunity to 5-12-08 115 1 put their own numbers in, beyond recommendations, each one of 2 you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 17 or larger. What is "or 4 larger"? 5 MS. HARGIS: Do we got 19's? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 19-inch is not -- is not 7 reasonably available in the laptop itself, but there's an 8 external possibility -- external monitor possible, external 9 19-inch monitors. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go with 17. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster, I have a personal 12 17-inch laptop -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- that does anything in the 15 world that I want to do. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And even when I'm taking off 18 my glasses and can't read up close. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still see it? I have a 20 17-inch screen in my office right now, and -- and I can look 21 at Excel spreadsheets and understand them and read them. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I don't have any problem 23 with my 17-inch. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, our budget has how many 25 columns? 5-12-08 116 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, it's going to be a little bit 2 different. We'll have -- let's see. We'll show at least 3 three prior years, probably four prior years, then department 4 requested and amount requested. We're going to be probably 5 looking at eight columns. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May end up having to slide it 7 up. 8 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, may have to slide it. You may 9 have to take the old stuff out to be able to see the new 10 stuff. But, you know, we've got a bar at the bottom to just 11 slide it over, but mostly you'll be concerned about the new. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That includes the column 13 that we mess everything up with -- or, I mean, work with? 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, I think you -- you know, each of 15 you will have your recommendations that way. You will 16 clearly know what those are. And the availability of being 17 able to do -- once you decide on something, we'll lock it 18 down that day. We'll certainly speed up our budget process. 19 I think you'll see it's much faster to process. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you sure we need a 21 column for us to -- I'm going to plug in a number and you're 22 going to plug in another number and you're going to plug in 23 another number, as a recommendation? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- it was indicated to me 25 that they wanted more ability for the members of the Court to 5-12-08 117 1 be more active in this thing from the get-go, as it were. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can understand us 3 sitting here like we are today and kind of agree on a number, 4 and all of us plug it in at that time. But I don't want to 5 have a different recommendation than you do. I don't. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You might want to. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, I don't. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want y'all to go first, and 9 I'll go last and then mine takes priority. (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's different, see. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That did it right there. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just not going to 13 work. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. All right, just 15 cancel the whole thing. 16 MR. TROLINGER: The District Clerk had a great 17 idea. There needs to be a computer here at the podium for 18 the presenter. 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes. And with an overhead projector 20 for y'all to see it, would be the ideal situation. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 MR. TROLINGER: For that particular scenario. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think it's only fair 24 that whatever we're doing up there, the public has a right to 25 view as well, and I surely don't mind going away from the 5-12-08 118 1 paper, and I know Jody won't mind not having to put all the 2 stuff together. And, you know, we throw away this paper and 3 have it recycled nowadays, but it's still a waste of time 4 and -- 5 MS. HARGIS: If I could make a suggestion, as we 6 show you the training process, then the four of you can 7 decide how you -- exactly how you want to do it, and that's 8 the way we'll design it. How's that? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are some of us -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about an additional 12 computer for the podium? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 14 MS. PIEPER: There would be a good one for the 15 court deputy, too. She could be doing her court orders as 16 well during the court proceedings. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She doesn't want it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, is there a -- I mean, for 20 up here, it makes sense for us to have laptops if we're going 21 to have our agenda that we can work with. But these other 22 ones, couldn't you just have a screen and a -- and a keyboard 23 that would give access, or does it make more sense to have 24 more laptops? 25 MR. TROLINGER: It makes sense for the presenter to 5-12-08 119 1 have a separate laptop. And the County Clerk's already -- 2 already has a laptop that's available for the clerk. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why does it make sense for 5 the presenter in any scenario other than budget? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I'm not even sure 7 of then. 8 MS. HARGIS: Well, some presenters have Power 9 Point -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Someone's going to have a 11 screen to talk to us about dog feces in the park? I don't 12 think so. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To show Rex's drawing. 14 MS. HARGIS: No, but there are some presenters that 15 would like to present you Power Points. For instance, the 16 people that came with 911, remember, they had the Power Point 17 presentation. It would be nice to have that available to 18 presenters, because -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They need the hookup here, but 20 you don't necessarily need a laptop here, 'cause most 21 presenters will bring their own laptop with the program. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do like that idea. 23 MS. HARGIS: But during the budget, I'll need to 24 be -- to be able to put that -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just have it wired so that 5-12-08 120 1 you can do a Power Point, and you bring your own laptop and 2 you bring your own disk and you bring your own dealy. We'll 3 provide a screen. 4 MS. UECKER: I thought you were talking about the 5 budget process. Isn't that what this is for? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This, though, is to discuss 7 wiring us for the budget process, and whatever's input into 8 your system for your budget will show up here. 9 MS. UECKER: Exactly, just for the -- but now we're 10 all following some other presentation. And -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're talking about 12 buying -- authorizing buying the computers. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if we're going 14 to buy five or six. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need another one for there. 16 That's six versus five. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then you're going to have to 19 have at least a monitor, if not two, mounted for the audience 20 to be able to see. 21 MS. HARGIS: I think one. If we're going to have a 22 screen, I think we'd have to put it up there. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you need to go back 24 and put together a plan for us, Option A and B, and then 25 present it to us at the next meeting. 5-12-08 121 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the -- well, I think 2 we can accomplish it today. What are we really -- if we're 3 on Option 2, which is -- which is the 17-inch screen versus 4 the 15.4, we know what those numbers are. The only thing 5 we're talking about differently is having -- while you're 6 wiring this podium, you're wiring that one too, so somebody 7 can have a laptop there, their own laptop. That's just a -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about not 9 purchasing a laptop there? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody else may be talking 12 about purchasing one, though. See, we really haven't gotten 13 to that yet. 14 MS. HARGIS: Ken, do you think -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 16 MR. RUARK: 17-inch should be plenty. What I -- 17 just as a thought, what I would do is have your five 18 computers which John's suggested here, and then a screen to 19 -- for somebody to see. Your computers then also could be 20 connected to display whatever you want it to on that screen 21 at that point in time, so if somebody came in with a 22 presenter and had their own laptop and wanted to do a Power 23 Point presentation, everybody could see it up there, and 24 that's what I would limit it to. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're saying the same 5-12-08 122 1 thing. 2 MR. RUARK: I think so, but a 17-inch screen is 3 probably wide enough as a laptop to do with Incode. When we 4 get far enough down the road with that, depending on how you 5 want it to set up and how you want to see it, we may need a 6 little bit of customization to Incode if you want to see -- 7 each Commissioner and the Judge wants to see their own 8 recommended budgets on a report and/or in a format that's 9 side-by-side-by-side. We can show that in multiple reports, 10 okay, but we can't show it in one report right now, if that 11 makes sense to you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can approve everything 14 today except the thing up on the wall? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, we can. So, that 16 would be Option 2, right? 17 MS. HARGIS: Well, you have a screen. But I think 18 if he's going to wire it, he probably needs to go ahead and 19 wire -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about having 21 something permanent. That screen wouldn't be permanent. We 22 need something mounted on the wall. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need a pull-down screen. 24 MR. RUARK: Either that, or just a monitor. You 25 can just mount a television up there, basically, as a 5-12-08 123 1 monitor, and have a direct -- so it goes up there however -- 2 however John decides. That's another option. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we need to come back 4 with that option later. Let's get the process started. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to go over 6 $25,000? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No. 8 MS. HARGIS: No. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not there yet. 10 MS. HARGIS: No. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Well, we are talking now in excess 12 of $10,000 to do all that, rough estimate. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've got, what, 72 with 14 that? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 7250, then plus your wiring cost. 17 Does that include the wiring cost? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got 8295 with wiring. 19 MR. TROLINGER: 8295 plus wiring, plus a screen, 20 plus the capability to switch between all those computers is 21 fairly expensive. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This isn't part of the master 23 plan of the courthouse lawn, is it? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's getting there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Turn on the sprinklers with them. 5-12-08 124 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what are you talking 2 about with this number, 10,000? 3 MR. TROLINGER: I jotted down $10,500 as my rough 4 estimate. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you are going to bid 6 this? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: He's already done a lot of 8 scrambling for cost. 9 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know where the -- exactly 10 what budget item it is coming from, though. That is a good 11 point. 12 MS. HARGIS: We have surplus money in the loan to 13 more than cover this. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, this does apply -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 16 item under Option 2, as discussed, to provide the extra 17 wiring and a monitor for purposes of the public viewing. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Option 2 is 17-inch 19 laptops. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five of them for the Court. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For an amount not to exceed 23 $10,500. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Including the switch where you can 25 switch back and forth? 5-12-08 125 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, based on his 2 estimate. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the money coming from 4 for this? 5 MS. HARGIS: Coming from the loan. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Capital item. Excess funds in I.T. 8 Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He got a second, didn't he? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we got a second. Motion made 12 and seconded as indicated. Further question or discussion? 13 All in favor of the motion -- I'm sorry? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Will they be here 15 tomorrow? Will they be here in a timely fashion so that we 16 can start working with our budget? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And installed? The answer 18 should be yes. 19 MR. TROLINGER: When is the first budget workshop? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's confidential 21 information, son. (Laughter.) We don't release that to 22 people that office in the back. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Near the loading dock. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Near the loading dock. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In a place without windows. 5-12-08 126 1 MR. TROLINGER: I don't have an answer. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Other than "yes"? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Yes" is the answer. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "Yes" is the answer. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 16; consider, 7 discuss, -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't voted on it yet. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- take appropriate action to 10 initiate RFP process -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't vote on it. 12 THE CLERK: Judge, we need a vote. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. I have a motion and 14 a second. Further question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trying to torpedo this 16 thing, isn't he? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 18 by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, now we'll go 23 to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 24 initiate the RFP process to hire project administrator and 25 engineer for pending 2008 Texas Community Development Block 5-12-08 127 1 Grant Colonia Fund project. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That should go on to say, 3 Judge, for Kerrville South Phase IV, Kerrville South 4 Wastewater Project. We're closing in on obtaining our 5 contract from O.R.C.A. for Phase IV of the Kerrville South 6 project. I believe we applied for half a million dollars, 7 and best I can tell is, we're approved for that. And this is 8 a requirement to move us along. We need to go back out with 9 an RFP for project administration services and for 10 engineering services. I move the approval -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for initiating an RFP 13 for that purpose. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second for 15 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 16 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 21 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll now go to Item 17; consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action to approve parameters for 24 appropriate design project at Hill Country Youth Exhibit 25 Center. Commissioner Letz. 5-12-08 128 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda at the 2 request of Peter Lewis, who's doing the design work for us 3 at -- the master plan at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 4 Center. And we talked about it on several occasions, but he 5 really requests that we give him some more specific 6 guidelines as to sizes of things that we, you know, hope to 7 get, and uses and things of that nature. And I wrote this 8 down. This is not, you know, necessarily -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have this? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be in your box, yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead, I'll find it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be helpful if -- it 13 looks like this. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've seen it. I got it 15 here someplace; it's just a matter of finding it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've got Jody making some 17 copies. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it, thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- I'll start -- I'll 20 read through it while we're waiting on some more copies. The 21 proposed plan for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 22 Build new show barn and exhibit barn. Build a new exhibit 23 hall. Remodel current indoor arena and shed area. Most 24 likely remove current exhibit hall. Remove current hog 25 barns. Build outdoor -- or new outdoor rodeo -- should say 5-12-08 129 1 arena, not area -- on side of property, and remove older 2 outdoor arena. Build new covered area for horse stalls that 3 would accommodate 20 stalls. Remodel covered barn for use of 4 4-H projects, Fair Association, and storage. And then 5 provide improved parking, outdoor lighting, and signage. 6 Below that, there's a -- the current facilities and 7 the size of those facilities. The exhibit hall currently is 8 10,400 square feet. The hog barn 1 would be 10,400 square 9 feet, and hog barn 2, 10,400 square feet. Those are the two 10 sections that are back there. The indoor arena is 45,000 11 square feet. The shed area is 13,750 square feet. And then 12 the covered barn is 18,000 square feet. Below that, under 13 the proposed facilities, it's leaving the indoor arena, the 14 shed area, the covered barn, new barn. We had talked also 15 about another 150-by-300 foot building; that's 45,000 square 16 feet. Exhibit hall, we have not talked as much about that on 17 the details. I put down 30,000 square feet. And then I put 18 some requirements. The new barn requirements: Concrete 19 floor, free span construction, area for auction and sales, 20 limited HVAC, capable of providing more exhibit space for 21 stock show, capable of multi-use, then a concession stand. 22 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to court.) 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the new exhibit hall 24 requirements are: Capable of hosting 1,000 persons per meal, 25 catering kitchen, HVAC, dividing into smaller classrooms, not 5-12-08 130 1 directly connected to animal barns, capable of multi-use, and 2 adequate storage. And then behind there is a plat of the 3 current facility. The idea is that, you know, if we're all 4 in agreement on this -- or we can make any changes to it and 5 give it to Peter Lewis so this is what he is working on, his 6 parameters as to -- and figure out where these things best 7 fit. This is not saying we're going through on these. This 8 is just more of a -- you know, a site plan where you would 9 put these buildings, and this is the sizes that we would like 10 to get. And then the next step would be, when Peter Lewis 11 comes back with a site plan, go out to the various -- and he 12 may be talking to someone along the way, but going out at 13 that point to Stock Show Association, the horse folks, 4-H, 14 and get input on, does it work from their standpoint? You 15 know, this is not setting anything -- this is not approving a 16 plan. This is just saying this is what we want to have 17 happen out there, and give him some really explicit marching 18 orders on his design. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like what you've spec'd 20 out. I'm just curious about the size. I know you've looked 21 at it very carefully with respect to the hog barns and the Ag 22 Barn, what it needs to be to do what we want it to do, and 23 that's all fine. I'm just wondering whether or not, to 24 accomplish what we -- in that one of the goals would be to be 25 able to have a function there where 1,000 people would be 5-12-08 131 1 seated for a meal, whether 30,000 is the right number, or 2 whether it needs to be a little larger. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's really why I think 4 almost more important than the sizes I wrote are the 5 requirements. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's fine. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think it's up to Peter 8 Lewis to come back and say, "Hey, to do that, we can't do it 9 in this size," and it may be the same with the new barn. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good answer. 11 Thank you, I appreciate that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I think it's an 13 important point that if we're going to have a -- in the new 14 barn area, the concept of having an auction area and have 15 increased space for exhibits, the 45,000 square feet may not 16 be big enough, you know. 'Cause, you know, currently it's 17 now 30,000, what we have in the hog barn, exhibit hall. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But what will happen, though, 19 with this plan, if we go with enlarging the hog barn, like I 20 think we've talked about doing, and concreting that area, 21 that will be a multi-use area that now is really only able to 22 be used for one thing, and that's during stock show time for 23 a hog barn, or for a sale or something like that. If we can 24 have that to where you have portable pens that can be taken 25 out when it's not being used for animals, it can be used for 5-12-08 132 1 a lot of things. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And flushed out and cleaned 3 up. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It can be cleaned up and 5 utilized for a lot of functions during the year. You can 6 have trade shows; you can have antique shows, various things. 7 There's just a multitude of uses. If you have a covered 8 concrete area, and just having that and making it big enough 9 to accommodate the amount of animals that we're getting, 10 which is increasing every year in the stock show, you know, I 11 think it's a good thing. I think it's something that we're 12 going to have to -- we have not had the ability to use 13 before. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the things 15 that -- well, Peter Lewis has asked for this, is that so far, 16 he's done a lot of research. I mean, there's -- obviously, 17 what we do out there is going to have a huge impact 18 electrically and sewage-wise and water-wise out there. We 19 have a well out there. What he's been doing up to now is 20 he's located everything, all the easements and how everything 21 fits. What he's getting ready to start doing is so he can 22 start placing buildings and minimize the projected cost, and 23 at the same time, it may be cheaper to move a major sewer 24 line or some electrical service rather than put a building 25 here, or -- you know, he'll decide what's the best thing to 5-12-08 133 1 do, but he needs to do the components pretty -- you know, at 2 this point. And then he'll come back in a month or so with 3 a -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And this drawing just 5 depicts what's there now, correct? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all it is. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like it. We're on the 9 right track. What do you want to do? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- or mainly, if the 11 requirements are adequate, we can go ahead and approve it. 12 If we need to add anything, it would be a good time to do it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's going to look at 14 our requirements, and he'll make decisions on square footage. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, fine. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the proposed 18 plan for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center dated May 12, 19 2008, and we'll forward it to Mr. Peter Lewis, our design 20 consultant, for incorporation of this in the design work. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-12-08 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 18; 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to develop 5 comprehensive protocol regarding access to Kerr County 6 financial and confidential employee personal information. I 7 put this on the agenda. As -- as we started working with the 8 financial software packages that have come into being, and 9 the packages that have the personal information regarding our 10 employees, there come about certain issues with regard to 11 access. And, number one, I'm concerned about liability 12 issues. If we don't have a protocol in place and there is 13 access by persons who should not have access, and we don't 14 have a protocol that says, "Thou shalt not," I think our 15 liability position is -- is much weaker. 16 And, secondly, I think we need to clearly know and 17 delineate who should have access, and that can be read-only 18 or it can be modification or entry, or maybe some on a 19 certain portion of it, some on another portion of it. But I 20 think we clearly need to get this delineated in a 21 comprehensive protocol that all of the parties that utilize 22 this information have gotten together around the table and 23 have discussed the various needs and the legalities relative 24 to each other, and have delineated this protocol. What I'm 25 suggesting is that the people that deal with this 5-12-08 135 1 information -- that would be the Auditor, the H.R. Director, 2 and the Treasurer -- that those people necessarily have to 3 deal with it and have access to it to some degree or another. 4 Obviously, our I.T. Manager has to have access to it, so that 5 in the event there's any fixes that have to be made, he's 6 able to do so. And then I think, insofar as putting together 7 the language, I'm going to see if we can draft the County 8 Attorney, to get him involved in that also. I noticed a 9 slight smile on his face. I don't know whether that was one 10 of glee or one of, "Oops, I got caught again." The latter? 11 MR. EMERSON: I knew it was coming. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I'm glad you 13 anticipated that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that mean he has 15 access? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He wouldn't necessarily have to have 17 access, but he would help in the drafting of the protocol. 18 And with regard to the legal issues involving 19 confidentiality, we got some HIPAA issues, we got some other 20 issues, we got insurance issues. There are a lot of things 21 that are going to come into play here, but we need to get it 22 A, B, C. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it secure enough? You're 24 saying that it's -- number one, it's not secure enough, all 25 that information? 5-12-08 136 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm not saying it's not secure 2 enough. What I'm concerned about is if there is an 3 allegation made that -- that someone had access to that 4 information or got access to that information that should not 5 have, and it caused damage or injury to an employee. For 6 example, if we have a protocol put together that we have 7 directed everybody that utilizes that information to follow 8 specifically, after it's developed and in place, I think, 9 from a liability standpoint, our position is much, much 10 stronger. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If something occurs outside of that 13 policy. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I don't disagree 15 with what you're saying. I think it's probably quite 16 necessary, but let me ask a corollary question, maybe through 17 you to the County Attorney. What would happen in the case 18 where an employee of Kerr County, or someone who, for 19 whatever reason, had access to confidential-type information, 20 particularly an employee, or -- or things of that nature, and 21 they violated this policy and went in and got that 22 information and distributed it to others, the result being 23 identity theft for somebody. Where -- what does -- where 24 does that leave us? Do we have exposure? Do we have 25 liability if that were to happen? 5-12-08 137 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got a lot more 2 liability if we don't have the protocol in place, because 3 that protocol is going to say, except as expressly set forth 4 in this protocol, nobody that has access to that information 5 should -- shall not disclose it to any third party except as 6 set forth herein. I think without the protocol, our 7 liability exposure is much, much greater. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right, and I 9 -- I would agree with that. I just want to be -- I just want 10 us to be aware that these things happen, and they could 11 happen to us. And somebody could come in here and say, "My 12 identity was stolen," the net result being whatever. And I 13 -- and we have been able to trace it back to Kerr County, and 14 that information was released fraudulently or whatever. I 15 just -- I'm just making a point to follow up on you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, once the individual is 17 determined that did that contrary to the terms of that 18 protocol, I think we'd be in a much better position to say 19 that was a personal act by this employee. We did what we 20 could to -- to put this protocol into place, to specifically 21 direct that that information should not be disclosed to 22 anybody. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's a step in the 24 right direction. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I'm -- in this whole 5-12-08 138 1 area of who has access to what kind of information, which is 2 what you're kind of talking about with the protocol, are 3 there other departments -- and I'm thinking on the judicial 4 side or the District Clerk -- that have access to lots of 5 information that is not public, that they need to all be 6 included under the same type protocol? 7 MS. UECKER: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are y'all -- 9 MS. UECKER: Can I answer that just a second? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 MS. UECKER: I think we're going to have to be 12 very, very careful, because every -- almost every employee 13 right now has maybe some type of personal information within 14 judicial records. Those are -- that's all public 15 information, especially those that came -- were filed prior 16 to, say, two years ago. Now there's some debate going around 17 the state as to whether redaction -- should they redact or 18 shouldn't they? The law is very clear that judicial records 19 are not subject to the Open Records Act, nor does any clerk 20 have any authority to redact or withhold any information off 21 of a judicial record, and this includes birthdays and Social 22 Security numbers, without a court order to seal that file. 23 Now, I think we're going to have to be real careful when we 24 come up with this policy that those judicial records are 25 exempted, because my staff right now can disseminate any 5-12-08 139 1 public information off of anybody that has a Social Security 2 number in -- in those judicial records. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless the Court orders it 4 sealed. 5 MS. UECKER: Unless there's a court order to seal 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about things like indigent 8 health care? I mean, we used to get lists of all that -- 9 those things on the Court, and then someone deemed that we 10 didn't want those names on there 'cause that was all 11 confidential information. I just -- I mean, there's so much 12 stuff we deal with. If we're going to do a policy, we've got 13 to make sure we cover everything, because if you exclude some 14 or leave it out, then you're probably in worse shape. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we may have to have several 16 different policies, depending upon the specific records. 17 Obviously, I'm not contemplating that any of the judicial 18 information should fall under this. That's one of the 19 reasons I want the County Attorney involved in it, so that 20 the protocol can be crafted in a manner that is specific as 21 to this particular information. And we want to -- may want 22 to use that as a springboard to work on other particular 23 information. I would say that the -- it very well may be 24 that indigent health care is going to possibly fall under 25 that. You know, it's not confidential information as to an 5-12-08 140 1 employee, but it's confidential information that comes into 2 the hands of our employees, because we see those bills on 3 some occasions. I don't think we do virtually, but that's 4 why I want the County Attorney involved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the HIPAA laws, they 6 come under the same umbrella as the -- whatever -- whatever 7 you were just talking about. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess you could try 10 something like everything coming under one umbrella except -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judicial. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- judicial stuff. Is there 13 other things that are like the judicial laws? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, actually, the agenda 15 item is styled for Kerr County's financial and confidential 16 employee personnel information, so it doesn't even get into 17 the legal arena. 18 MS. UECKER: Right. But I was just kind of 19 cautioning you, when you come up with a policy, to make sure 20 that those things are excluded, because I can't exclude them, 21 'cause the law doesn't allow me to without a court order from 22 a District Judge. And in Jannett's case, her misdemeanor 23 cases, same thing; she cannot redact any judicial information 24 off of even misdemeanors without a court order. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Just merely put in an exclusion as 5-12-08 141 1 to judicial records. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think this is really styled 3 to the point of who has access to what and when they have 4 access to it, and can they be shut out of things that they 5 need to do as part of their job? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we have to be careful 7 about that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I think we've had some 10 complaints of that going on with an individual blocking 11 access to other departments, and that needs to stop, and we 12 need a policy addressing that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, protocol -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's basically what it is. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Protocol would delineate it very 16 clearly. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not relying upon memories or 19 interpretations of discussions or anything. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll be able to tell who did 21 what, whenever. You know, whether they did it rightly or 22 wrongly. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what we're talking 24 about is developing this protocol? We don't have it? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5-12-08 142 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You and the County Attorney 2 and others are going to get together to do this? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think the folks -- the one 4 that we're talking about, I think, is going to include I.T., 5 H.R., Treasurer, Auditor, and then assisted by the County 6 Attorney. That's -- that's any my thinking. There may be 7 others that -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good start. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- fall under this umbrella. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will also lead into the 11 other elected officials that are not judicial. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is just kind of -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And department heads. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- giving marching orders, and 15 then it'll come back? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. We're -- we don't have a 17 protocol to even look at. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Need a motion or what? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, probably, to develop a 20 protocol. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that the Court 22 authorize the development of a comprehensive protocol 23 regarding access to Kerr County financial, confidential, 24 human resources -- and what others did you have there, Judge? 25 Is that enough? 5-12-08 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Human resources and employee, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And employee personal 3 information, and bring it back to the Court for study and 4 action. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 7 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the pleasure of the Court? 13 Do you want to shut down at this point and -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got a workshop at 1:30. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I know, but that may have 16 to -- we can either stack the rest of it on the back side of 17 the workshop, or -- or push it in and let the workshop be 18 pushed back a little bit. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Someone in the audience is 20 jumping up and down. 21 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Bathroom's out here. 23 MS. HYDE: I know. I have another -- I have my 24 grandmother's memorial at 2:00 today, so if we can't get to 25 this, I'll have to back up. Mine was real simple on the TAC, 5-12-08 144 1 but then I think they can present it for this. And I can -- 2 if you don't mind, I can give you this if there needs to be 3 discussion about any monetary for the other one. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it that you're 5 talking about? 6 MS. HYDE: Jannett and Diane. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd just as soon we pull 8 that and come back another day. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're hungry, right? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I am. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, are we pulling 1.25? 1.26? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a very large 15 issue. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 1.26 is not. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 25 is. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But why don't we deal with 1.26 19 before she leaves? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go ahead and move to 21 Item 26; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on the 22 enrollment or coverage options on Texas Association of 23 Counties worker's compensation self-insurance fund. I'm not 24 sure the question that you have is properly an executive 25 session item. I think we're looking at a category. Okay, go 5-12-08 145 1 ahead. 2 MS. HYDE: I don't think it is. It's not, she said 3 earlier. All I want to do is give y'all copies of this for 4 the next Commissioners Court meeting and ask you to ponder 5 this question. Somehow, in the last six years, we had 6 changed the worker's compensation to include elected 7 officials to be covered under worker's comp. Prior to that, 8 it wasn't. We can find nothing that showed where it was 9 really discussed, and we think it might have been a checkmark 10 error, maybe. We don't know. But I'd just like to have it 11 where y'all can look it over. I've got the order from 1999 12 where you talked about the volunteer fire department, and I 13 think that might have been the intent, but I don't know; I 14 wasn't here. So, right now we're going to be on -- we're 15 doing worker's comp for elected officials, and I just want to 16 make sure that's what y'all want before we get ready to 17 checkmark this time. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- what is the 19 issue? 20 MS. HYDE: We're paying for worker's comp for 21 elected officials. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Worker's comp? 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we should not be? 25 MS. HYDE: Well, it's the Court's decision, but I 5-12-08 146 1 don't know -- we're unsure, 'cause I've been told for the 2 last year that they were exempt and they were not covered 3 under worker's comp. So -- so, I've been going under that 4 premise until we get the Court -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You check it? 6 MS. HYDE: And it's like -- we checked it, yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm curious to know what the 8 253 other counties are doing. 9 MS. HYDE: It's -- it's kind of split. It's about 10 50/50. Some do, some don't. Normally, the ones that 11 self-insure -- that are fully self-insured do not. So, I've 12 got a little packet that I'll give to y'all so you can ponder 13 it until the next Commissioners Court, if that's okay. And 14 so that way, Mindy and I will know what to do this year. 15 'Cause we'll get the contract in the next 30 to 60 days. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the -- the good news/bad 17 news is, obviously, if coverage is on elected officials, 18 they've got coverage. The bad news is, they're already 19 exempt, so they're not hourly employees that normally apply 20 to worker's comp injury because they are exempt, and as a 21 result, our premium's being based on gross payroll. 22 MS. HYDE: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It goes up by that amount. 24 MS. HYDE: Gross payroll. So, it's just a question 25 for y'all to think about, ponder, and then come to a 5-12-08 147 1 decision. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're paying for something we 4 don't really need. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might have been pretty good 8 in the days before the unit road system. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll tell you what my 11 question is going to be. Why in the hell does TAC allow it 12 to happen? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. They're supposed to be 14 on top of things like that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause they're in the 17 insurance business. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Jimmy John -- well, that 19 really makes it worse. 20 MS. HYDE: Well, in fairness -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't our rep down here 22 beating on the door, saying, "Hey, you guys really don't need 23 to be doing this"? I know he's a friend of all of us, but 24 that question is going to come up. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why would you not cover the 5-12-08 148 1 elected officials on worker's comp? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause they're exempt employees. 3 They're going to get paid if, you know -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What about your -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll give you the -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What about your medical side? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your medical. Say you have an 9 elected official that gets hurt on the job, okay, and has 10 medical bills. Worker's comp pays 100 percent of those 11 medical bills. Why would you have the employee and not the 12 elected officials? I'm not worried about the salary part of 13 it. It's the medical part of it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, medical is going to be a retro 15 charge back, anyway. And we're partially self-insured, and 16 if it turns out to be a major claim -- I can see where, if 17 there is no comp coverage, you'd therefore fall back under 18 your health plan, because it's going to say we exclude 19 coverage for anything that's covered by worker's comp. So, 20 if you're not covered by worker's comp, once it hits our 21 limits, we're dropping it in the lap of the stop loss 22 carrier. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the thing I'm concerned 24 about for those elected officials, our health insurance plan 25 does not cover the 100 percent that worker's comp covers. If 5-12-08 149 1 you're injured on the job, you're still going to meet your 2 normal deductibles and everything else. And I think that 3 could be a pretty bad hindrance to an elected official that 4 does get injured on the job. 5 MS. UECKER: I'm wondering if that was not done 6 after the lawsuit where a previous elected official fell out 7 of a chair. It was about that time. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. 9 MS. UECKER: And sued the County for that portion. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. 12 MS. HYDE: She lost, right? 13 MS. UECKER: Well, a jury -- yeah, a jury. But I 14 think there was a settlement or something. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There was no settlement. 17 MS. UECKER: There was no settlement? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County won that deal. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought there was. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No. They tried it. They went to 21 the mat. 22 MS. UECKER: It was a jury trial. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You notice only the bad boys 24 are concerned about this thing. 25 MS. UECKER: Well, the next jury might not find 5-12-08 150 1 this same way. I mean, that's the point I'm trying to make. 2 MS. HYDE: And then the next question would be, but 3 aren't -- I mean, y'all have said this to me multiple times. 4 Elected officials are not actually employees of the county. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: They're officers. 6 MS. HYDE: They're officers of the county. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but they're still 8 employees as far as retirement and everything else goes, and 9 I personally think that ought to be covered under it for 10 medical. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I can understand why you'd think 12 that. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Because you're at greater risk, and 15 it's to your benefit to have that -- that deductible covered, 16 as opposed to have -- if it's a major claim, we have to eat 17 the whole thing up to $250,000, $500,000, whereas if it falls 18 under the health plan, once it hits the $50,000, boom, it 19 goes into the lap of the stop loss carrier, as opposed to 20 into our lap. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to look at the cost of 22 that coverage versus -- I mean, what's -- weigh it. What's 23 the cost of this additional -- basically, what is the 24 additional coverage for medical to the county and employee -- 25 or elected official. 5-12-08 151 1 MS. UECKER: One other comment, that having been 2 there during the trial -- you know, I'll go out on a limb and 3 say, had that been any other elected official, that the 4 outcome would have not been the same. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's probably right. 6 MS. UECKER: They did not like it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably true. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, Ms. Hyde, you're 9 merely wanting us to consider the information and approve it? 10 MS. HYDE: And y'all make a decision. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is the information? 12 MS. HYDE: I'm going to put little booklets 13 together for you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Deal with the health part 16 of it, too. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Medical part of it, too. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The cost based upon the factor that 20 goes on the gross payroll and so forth. 21 MS. HYDE: Right. Right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the bigger question 23 is, is Buzzie's open on Monday? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to let you investigate 25 that, because I'm going to recess for lunch, and we'll be 5-12-08 152 1 back at 1:30. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 (Recess taken from 12:20 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 6 were in recess for lunch, and I understand, for the workshop 7 this afternoon, that a couple of the participants from TexDOT 8 are running a few minutes late, so hopefully that will give 9 us an opportunity to try and knock down the rest of our 10 agenda. The next item on the agenda is Number 19; consider, 11 discuss, and take appropriate action on proposed policy 12 requiring all Kerr County elected officials, department 13 heads, and employees to read and respond to e-mails received 14 on a timely basis, without necessity of prior communication 15 that such e-mail is being transmitted. I think the Court 16 probably has some recollection of the origin of that. The 17 end result of what I heard was, "If that's what the Court 18 directs me to do, I will do that." So, I'm not going to 19 leave anything to chance. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Motion made and seconded 23 for approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 24 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-12-08 153 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's look at 4 Number 20; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 5 approve the Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for Medical 6 Examiner Services between Travis County and Kerr County, and 7 allow County Judge to sign same. This was on the agenda -- 8 they have reworked their contract. I have submitted it to 9 the County Attorney. There was one change he made. We have 10 interlined that change. Even though they said that's the 11 final draft, what we've interlined makes it our final draft, 12 and that's what I suggest we send to them. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval, and authorize 14 County Judge to sign same. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You need a second? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I did. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. We 19 have a motion and a second. Question or discussion on the 20 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 21 right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go 5-12-08 154 1 to -- I'm going to defer on 21 for just a second. I ran into 2 someone that said they'd like to be here, but they were on 3 their way, hopefully in a few minutes. Consider -- 1.22; 4 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to declare the 5 old Animal Control van surplus. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not using it. Nobody 7 seems to have any use for it. I move that we declare it 8 surplus and sell it with the other two vehicles that -- from 9 Environmental Health. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second the motion. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I hear a second? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion and a second. 14 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 20 Item 23; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 21 approve tax collection contract with City of Ingram; 22 authorize County Judge to sign the same. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 5-12-08 155 1 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 2 signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 7 to Item 24; consider and discuss contract with Tyler 8 Technologies. Ms. Bolin? 9 MS. BOLIN: Last year during the legislative 10 session, they passed a House Bill which affects some tax 11 offices and takes away some of the responsibility of the 12 appraisal districts. They've squared off all of the county 13 lines, so anyone who collects for overlapping county 14 jurisdictions or school districts, whatever, get their 15 information now from the appraisal district that does the 16 appraisals for that county. If I collected for Comfort ISD, 17 I would get something from Kendall ISD for the properties in 18 that county. I don't collect for any overlapping counties -- 19 or any overlapping jurisdictions. Everything I collect for 20 is within Kerr County. The bill does not affect us. 21 However, Tyler Technology, in the original contract, stated 22 that one of their services was to update for legislative 23 mandates. Excuse me. This year, they have updated for this 24 House Bill 1010, which, as I said, has no effect on us. Now 25 they want us to send them the certified roll that I load to 5-12-08 156 1 collect taxes to be converted by them at an additional cost 2 to the County. 3 When I asked them about the fact that it did not 4 affect Kerr County, why couldn't I go ahead and load it as 5 we've done for years and years, they said absolutely not. 6 They've adjusted the system to where they have to do our 7 certified load, at $6,500. They are working it to where we 8 are going to be relying on them for nearly everything we do, 9 so the supplements that come in a couple of times a month, 10 sometimes three or four times a month from the appraisal 11 district for adjustments that are made, they want us to start 12 contracting with them to do those at an additional fee. 13 Everything that they currently do to help us, they want to 14 start charging for. I showed it to Rex. He wrote a letter 15 to Jim Adams, and as far as I know, he hasn't heard anything 16 back, and you all have copies of all of those. 17 I just wanted you to be aware, because of what 18 they're doing, they're -- I don't want them personally doing 19 the certified load, because when they balance things, if it's 20 within $10,000, they consider it balanced. We have always 21 balanced to the penny, and I have a real problem with that if 22 I'm the one responsible for the money, balancing something 23 that doesn't actually balance. And we went through it last 24 year and the year before, where they tried to say it 25 balances; you're just this much off. Well, if I'm $10,000 5-12-08 157 1 off, that's not balancing. So, now they've got it where we 2 have to let them do this load. Then that -- then I balance 3 back to the appraisal district; that tells you how much we're 4 going to get in levy. And they want to charge us for it, and 5 I just wanted y'all to know that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson? 7 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it your opinion that the contract 9 requires them to provide these matters that the Tax Assessor 10 has mentioned at no additional cost under the terms of their 11 existing contract? 12 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I guess a question I 15 have is, I know it doesn't affect you, but does Kendall 16 county use Tyler Technology? I mean, 'cause they do collect 17 in -- 18 MS. BOLIN: They use True Automation. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, here we have a system where 20 they're in Comfort I.S.D., but from a residence standpoint, 21 school taxes or not, they're still county residents. There's 22 already a problem between the appraisal districts talking. 23 Now we're going to have different software people going to be 24 doing the work for the appraisal district and through your 25 office? I mean, this is getting worse every time the 5-12-08 158 1 Legislature gets involved with it, and there's no recourse 2 right now, I mean, of how you balance out or challenge, right 3 now, appraisals. 4 MS. BOLIN: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just another step 6 getting worse, because it's going to be taken out of the 7 County's hands and going into the -- 8 MS. BOLIN: Exactly. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- contractor's. 10 MS. BOLIN: They're taking it out of my hands, but 11 I'm still responsible. Plus they're charging us, which just 12 really irks me. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the charge thing, Rex 14 answered that, and -- 15 MS. BOLIN: So, for them to take this completely 16 out of our hands is just -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do they have the ability to 18 take it out of our hands? 19 MS. BOLIN: They changed the program to where no -- 20 none of us can use it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How can they do that, Rex? I 22 mean, they're -- 23 MR. EMERSON: I think you better ask John, since 24 he's the I.T. guy. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, John, I mean, how is a 5-12-08 159 1 contractor able to tell the County how we're going to do our 2 business? 3 MR. TROLINGER: The database changes have become so 4 complex that it requires a database administrator to make the 5 changes. It's their -- they need to comply with the law in 6 order to do it. They're having to jump through a lot of 7 hoops, and they're trying to distribute the cost. One of 8 those ways is by, say, probing the counties to see if they'll 9 pay. And we're saying no, it's part of the contract for 10 support right now. That's really the issue. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are all contractors doing this? 12 MS. BOLIN: Not to my knowledge. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't see how they can 14 assume a responsibility that's a county function without a 15 contract to do that function. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, John, in light of 17 what you said, how do you explain the thought that the County 18 Attorney advanced to -- to Mr. Adams of Tyler Technologies 19 that, quote, for the charges stated herein, which is an 20 excerpt of the contract, Tyler shall provide the following 21 software update and client services. Software updates, 22 enhancements include... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In 23 light of what you said, how do you equate that? 24 MR. TROLINGER: It's -- the statements's correct. 25 Software Group has to comply with the contract and provide us 5-12-08 160 1 with those updates as part of our existing contract. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You've received no response from the 4 Tyler Technologies people to your communication to them about 5 this issue? 6 MR. EMERSON: No, nothing verbal or in writing. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we wait and see. 9 MS. BOLIN: Pretty much. I just wanted y'all aware 10 of the situation. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 12 MS. BOLIN: You're welcome. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 27; consider, 14 discuss, and take appropriate action to approve a new postage 15 machine contract with Pitney Bowes at the same government 16 rate as the last four years; authorize County Judge to sign 17 same. There's Ms. Pieper, okay. 18 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, throughout the past years, 19 as far as I know, the clerk's always signed the agreement 20 with our postage machine. It dawned on me -- I think this is 21 a contract, and this is something I probably need to come to 22 y'all and have the Judge authorized to sign it. My contract 23 is up for renewal, and this is just a renewal, and it's going 24 to be the same rate that it has been for the last four years. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Has it been reviewed by the County 5-12-08 161 1 Attorney? 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes, it has. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval, and authorize 4 County Judge to sign. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 8 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 13 now to Item 21; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 14 action on implementation of the burn ban. I put this on the 15 agenda. It's the recurring 90-day rollover, isn't it? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move that we -- well, you 20 moved it? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I moved it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You moved? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I'll second it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded per the 5-12-08 162 1 agenda item. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 2 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. On Item 25, 7 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 8 moving election duties to the Voter Registrar's office, and 9 one employee from County Clerk's office, Commissioner 10 Williams, I think you want some initial input on that? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I'd like for the two 12 moving elected officials to agree to bring this back at the 13 next Commissioners Court meeting, 'cause it's going to 14 require a significant amount of discussion, and the room is 15 filling up and we're delaying a workshop. So, if you ladies 16 are nodding in accord, then I guess that's what we'll do. 17 MS. BOLIN: That's fine. 18 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any member of the Court have 20 anything further to offer on that item? Okay. Let's go to 21 Section 4 of the agenda, payment of the bills. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay our bills. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 25 bills. Question or discussion on that motion? What happened 5-12-08 163 1 to Pages 8 through 14? 2 MS. HARGIS: Well, since I wasn't here, that's 3 probably a good question. I think they're numbered 1. 7, 4 then 8, and then it didn't print. That's what it did. You 5 can barely see 10, and then the 11, the page numbers just 6 didn't show up. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mine goes from 7 to 15. I don't 8 know what everybody else's did. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We've got 17 some budget amendments, as shown on a summary sheet. They 18 are budget amendments or requests 1 through 15. Pretty 19 self-explanatory. Do I hear a motion that the budget 20 amendments as shown on the summary sheet 1 through 15 be 21 approved as presented? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 5-12-08 164 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 6 any late bills? I've been presented with monthly reports for 7 Constable, Precinct Number 1; Constable, Precinct Number 4; 8 Constable, Precinct Number 2; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 9 Number 3; Justice of the Peace, Precinct Number 1; Justice of 10 the Peace, Precinct Number 4; Environmental Health; and 11 District Clerk. Do I hear a motion that those reports be 12 approved as presented? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the named reports as presented. Question or 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 23 any reports from members of the Commissioners in connection 24 with their committee or liaison assignments? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 5-12-08 165 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quickie, Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The door-to-door survey 4 that the Court authorized for the Center Point/East Kerr 5 Wastewater Project is pretty close to completion. I think 6 the canvassing has picked up another about 100 additional 7 surveys that have been forwarded off to the Community 8 Resource Group in Austin. I've just asked them to do one or 9 two more streets in Center Point proper, just to be sure that 10 we've covered all the bases appropriately, so we should be 11 wrapping up pretty quickly. Secondly, for Commissioners 3 12 and 4, I had a phone call from a constituent on Saturday 13 afternoon, fellows, at the conclusion -- or the caller had 14 been to the roping at the Ag Barn. The particular caller was 15 wheelchair-bound, and she called to tell me that the access 16 to the handicapped restrooms in the Ag Barn was not available 17 for whatever reason; I don't know why they're not available. 18 So, I just pass that on to you for what it's worth. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll find out. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Anybody have 21 anything else? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one quick item, that 23 Commissioner Williams and I are continuing to work with 24 Councilmen Hamilton and Gross related to the airport. More 25 meetings scheduled later this month. 5-12-08 166 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are y'all playing nice? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doing our best. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some days. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you looking at me? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody want to come back and have 8 any more input on any of the items on our regular agenda? If 9 not, we will stand adjourned on that. 10 (Commissioners court adjourned at 1:50 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 14 STATE OF TEXAS | 15 COUNTY OF KERR | 16 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 17 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 18 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 19 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 20 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of May, 2008. 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 5-12-08