1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 27, 2008 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 4 regarding new leash law at Flat Rock Park -- 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request for resolution in support of utilizing 6 a portion of annual license renewal fees to Texas Parks and Wildlife for predator control 15 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 solicit Requests for Proposal and/or Requests for Qualifications to provide medical services 9 to inmates at Kerr County Jail 20 10 1.4 Open bids for 4,400 square feet of concrete for storage area at Kerr County Fair Grounds; take 11 appropriate action to award bid and authorize 41, construction 107 12 1.5 Open bids for 648 square feet of concrete sidewalk 13 at Kerr County Courthouse and take appropriate 42, action to award bid and authorize construction 108 14 1.6 Open bids for one 6-ton air conditioning unit & 15 four 8 1/2-ton air conditioning units and take appropriate action to award bid, in whole or in 16 part, as applicable 44 17 1.9 Consider/discuss and take appropriate action to open and award bid for a C7500 truck equipped 45, 18 with an aerial bucket and chip box 112 19 1.10 Public Hearing for revision of plat, Ingram Hills, Lot 25, located in Precinct 4 46 20 1.11 Public Hearing for revision of plat for Lots 23 21 and 24W in The Reserve of Falling Water, located in Precinct 3 47 22 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to name 23 a private road per 911 guidelines 47 24 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve final plat of Headwaters Ranch, Phase 3 48 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 27, 2008 2 PAGE 3 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve actuarial services for GASB 45 with 4 Gabriel Roeder Smith & Company and interlocal Agreement with North Central Texas Council 5 of Governments 49 6 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on proposed concept for revision of plat for Live 7 Springs Ranch 56 8 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for variance to postpone construction improvements 9 to Chisolm Trail and portions of Sedalia Trail in Live Springs Ranch 61 10 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 11 negotiations with City of Kerrville on airport and other matters concerning airport projects 66 12 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 accept a gift of artwork from Kerr County Historical Commission 76 14 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 review services of GovDeals, Inc. 87 16 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on medical insurance lab claims against our policy 92 17 18 4.1 Pay Bills 114 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 19 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 124 20 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 21 Assignments 125 22 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 128 23 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve moving election duties to Voter 24 Registrar's office and one employee from County Clerk's office (Executive Session) --- 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 27, 2008 2 PAGE 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 transfer an employee from County Clerk's office to Court Compliance Department (Executive Session) --- 4 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 transfer an employee from Environmental Health Department to Court Compliance Department 6 (Executive Session) --- 7 3.1 Action as may be required on matters discussed in Executive Session 135 8 --- Adjourned 146 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Tuesday, May 27, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this 10 time and date, Tuesday, May 27th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is that 11 time now. Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you very 13 much. If you would all rise for a word of prayer, we have a 14 special guest today to lead us in a word of prayer, and it's 15 the only judge that I've ever seen on Oprah. (Laughter.) 16 David Billeiter. 17 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Thanks, David. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 20 of the audience or the public that wishes to be heard on any 21 item that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come 22 forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. If you 23 wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that you fill 24 out a participation form. There should be some at the back 25 of the room. If there are no forms, or if you haven't filled 5-27-08 6 1 one out and we get to an agenda item that you wish to be 2 heard on, get my attention in some fashion and I'll see that 3 you do have the opportunity to be heard on that item. We 4 prefer that we have a participation form so that -- it helps 5 me so that we don't go by that item and -- and skip over you, 6 and I don't want to do that. But right now, if there's any 7 member of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter 8 that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come forward 9 at this time. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. 10 Commissioner Baldwin? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, thank you. I have 12 one issue that I want to bring up, and it's really, really 13 exciting. This Thursday, in this courtroom, at 7 p.m., 14 T.C.E.Q., better known in this room as T-Quack, will be here 15 along with many of our citizens or many of my constituents in 16 Precinct 1. Out on Harper Road, the -- the Christian camp 17 out there, Hill Country -- the Hill Country camp -- Pearl 18 Wheat, the old Pearl Wheat camp, they've built a new O.S.S.F. 19 treatment facility out there, and it's -- it treats the 20 effluent and then dumps right out into Town Creek. So, there 21 are some natives that are restless over that. So, between 22 the State Representative and myself, we have rounded up this 23 -- I think it's going to be a pretty good-sized meeting with 24 all the players to talk about this new fancy treatment plant, 25 and we'd be delighted to have y'all come and see it. I mean, 5-27-08 7 1 it's not every day we get to talk about sewer, but it's 2 almost every day. And it would be a great opportunity for 3 you guys to -- to be a part of that to see -- see the new -- 4 the new style of treatment facilities and see how the State 5 handles those kind of things. I'm pretty excited about it, 6 to see how all that works out, and -- and to see Dr. Rector 7 challenge some things, and it's going to be interesting. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who's upstream from there? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who cares? A creek's a 10 creek. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Town Creek, right? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Town Creek. Dumps 13 right into the Guadalupe. That's all I wanted to talk about 14 this morning. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was a great Memorial Day 17 weekend, starting with the Bank of the Hills fly-over and 18 memorial service they had on Thursday. I had the opportunity 19 to be at the Arts and Crafts Fair for a couple days, and that 20 was fun. I understand they did very well this time, as 21 opposed to last -- last year because of weather, so it was 22 good. That's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of things. I thought it 25 was interesting; I read in the County Magazine -- I don't 5-27-08 8 1 know if y'all read it, but I thought it was interesting for 2 the public as well -- a lawsuit. Oral arguments were held 3 before the Supreme Court -- U.S. Supreme Court in March, and 4 the name of the case is Rothgery vs. Gillespie County, is the 5 case, and it has a possible very significant budget impact to 6 Kerr County and all counties in Texas. It goes to when 7 people are entitled to indigent defense, whether it's after 8 indictment or as soon as they're arrested. Interesting case 9 that our neighbors up north took all the way to the Supreme 10 Court. I don't know -- I don't know that it was their choice 11 to take it that far, but they got that far. Also -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait. And Gillespie 13 County says that it's after indictment? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After indictment. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's the argument? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the argument. And it's 17 -- and it's -- the guess is, based on the article, it's a 18 very -- it's going to be very close. There are two justices 19 that are pretty clearly siding with the counties, that it 20 should be after indictment, and there are two justices that 21 are very -- think it should be after arrest or at arrest, and 22 there are three that are on the fence. And it's one of those 23 that -- did that add up to right number of justices? Might 24 be four -- four of them on the fence. And two of those are 25 probably leaning towards the county idea, but the other two, 5-27-08 9 1 it's a real question. It's unclear as to how -- it may come 2 down to Justice Kennedy and Justice -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Scalia? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not Scalia. Souter? 5 Souter, I believe, as to how they're -- how it's going to end 6 up, and that's -- that's not real comforting, that those two 7 are the two that are going to be making this decision. 8 Another issue, we had a meeting of the -- it's called the 9 Hill Country Coalition of Counties. It was a week ago last 10 Friday out at Schreiner. Interesting meeting, and we have 11 progressed to a point where Judge Sumner and primarily myself 12 hammered out three pages that are going to be given to Jim 13 Allison to write -- to look at writing legislation. I was 14 able to get most of the -- what I consider bad stuff taken 15 out of this, which was about a page of it, but there's 16 still -- and the three items that we're looking at pursuing 17 are safe roads funds, which is a -- some sort of a system to 18 allow counties to collect fees from developers for 19 subdivision developments that have an impact on county roads. 20 I think pretty much every development that we have going on 21 in this county almost right now are accessed by county roads, 22 and the county's left holding the bag trying to figure out 23 how to upgrade those roads. Some sort of a fund or fee to 24 developers to help pay for that. Also for drainage issues. 25 There's an issue of noncompatible land use; that if 5-27-08 10 1 you have an existing residential development and a commercial 2 development that is not compatible with that, that a buffer 3 has to be upgraded between that commercial and residential 4 development, and this is primarily addressed in quarries, and 5 I think throughout the region. And then the other one is 6 density-slash-lot size, to give counties some explicit 7 authority to do both, set lot sizes and/or density. These 8 are -- all three of these are being targeted just for hill 9 country counties to have just as additional authority. The 10 lot size, we get there in Kerr County, as most counties in 11 the hill country do, by using water availability. But some 12 counties in the hill country, such as Burnet County primarily 13 has surface water, so they don't have a lot size limit, and 14 they're getting rather -- in the Marble Falls area 15 especially, where they had a lot of flooding, which that 16 flooding wasn't due to this, but density is on quarter-acre 17 lots. People are putting in these private sewer systems, and 18 from a drainage standpoint, it's really not being taken into 19 account. So, trying to figure out how to get some sort of 20 authority by -- drainage is the basis for it, really, to set 21 lot sizes in hill country counties. Those are the three 22 things. 23 I'll have a copy of this out to the other 24 Commissioners so they can look through it. Jim Allison was 25 at our meeting, and he's going to take this and kind of put 5-27-08 11 1 it into probably two pages of talking points that will be 2 presented to -- what's his name? -- Senator Lucio's committee 3 on the 18th of June. And he has a -- he's -- and also 4 Representative Rhodes' committee also. Those are the two 5 subcommittees that are looking at these issues in the 6 interim. And I haven't asked -- or talked to the Judge about 7 this, but the sort of consensus of the meeting was to ask him 8 to make this presentation before the subcommittee, Senator 9 Lucio's committee. He didn't know that till just now. But, 10 anyway, someone will make that presentation. 11 And I guess the last thing is a little bit of a 12 criticism/complaint directed primarily at the Kerrville 13 Independent School District. I think it's absolutely 14 terrible that they had school yesterday. I think it is -- 15 you know, we talk so much about family values and things of 16 that nature, and to have businesses, much less, you know, 17 schools ignoring a really important day like Memorial Day 18 just really got me. And I think that -- I would encourage 19 everyone calling your school board members and complaining. 20 No wonder we're having problems in schools, when they don't 21 even teach the basic values of this country, and I think that 22 includes celebrating Memorial Day. That really annoys me. 23 And from what I understand, they've also decided to hold 24 class on Labor Day next year -- or this summer. And they 25 also don't give off Veterans Day, so I think that it's -- it 5-27-08 12 1 really says something about our trustees when they don't 2 acknowledge some of the most important days in our country. 3 That's it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Oehler? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Really not a whole lot. I 6 think Jonathan took most of my time, but I'm glad he did. I 7 had a good friend that had his dog get bit by a rattlesnake 8 over the weekend, and I found out that there is a shot that a 9 vet can give them now that will take care of that venom when 10 it's -- if they get bit, and will, a lot of times, save their 11 life. And I don't know how long it's been available, but 12 evidently not very long. And this particular incident, the 13 dog was bit right on the nose and into his tongue, and so 14 that's about as bad as you can get, and -- unless you get bit 15 by the heart. But, anyway, for people that have animals, we 16 evidently -- you know, we do have rattlesnakes and we do have 17 other poisonous snakes, and -- and that is available, and I 18 would encourage everybody to go get it done. I'm going to 19 get mine done tomorrow, because -- and I had no idea. I 20 thought it was a thing you did after they got bit, but 21 actually, it's something that can be done prior to it that 22 will help them in case they do. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, like a vaccine? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kind of a vaccine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Immunization, mm-hmm. 5-27-08 13 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, anyway, if the newspaper 2 would put that in there, that may put some people on notice 3 that that is available, and it could save your dog. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that only as to rattlesnakes, or 5 any -- any type of poisonous -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's just a venomous 7 snake, but I know it for sure on rattlesnakes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, I would encourage people 10 to do that to basically try to save their dog before they get 11 bit instead of trying to save them afterwards. That was it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before -- before you 13 take your time, Commissioner Letz mentioned quarries, and 14 Commissioner Baldwin mentioned T.C.E.Q. That reminded me 15 that T.C.E.Q. has issued a ruling on the Wheatcraft issues, 16 air quality permit application, and it is not to the liking 17 of the locals, as you could well imagine. I believe there's 18 a meeting scheduled sometime this week. The folks had 19 retained an attorney to help represent them in terms of 20 whether or not they want to seek a contested case hearing, 21 and there may be some effort to do that. The County doesn't 22 particularly have a role in it, because I think if you're 23 seeking a contested case hearing, you have to be an affected 24 party and have a -- be a property owner, for example, 25 contiguous to the quarry or something like that. And so the 5-27-08 14 1 County really is not an affected party in the context of the 2 law or the regulations of T.C.E.Q. So, anyhow, that's what's 3 happening in that regard. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We had our annual 5 Memorial Day event out on the west side of the courthouse 6 square near the war memorial, and I was happy to see members 7 of the Court there. And I -- I may have opened Pandora's 8 box, but I think it was something that needed to be done. 9 The war memorial out there is not complete. It needs to be 10 expanded to provide space to place the names of eligible Kerr 11 Countians who have given their life in service and conflicts. 12 And I asked the veterans' groups and veterans and family 13 members and whomever to work with us to give us that 14 information, give us their ideas on -- on the expansion of 15 that memorial, so that's coming. And if anybody asks you who 16 opened that can of worms, it was me, and I'll take 17 responsibility for it, but it's the right thing to do and we 18 need to do it. So, that's something that we should hope to 19 see occur in the future. It may -- may be that the Court 20 needs to go back and revisit the -- the policy on 21 eligibility. I've heard some various discussions about that. 22 And probably as part and parcel of that, we need to go back 23 and look at what was the eligibility of those that are 24 already there. What -- what was their status that -- that 25 placed them on there, relative to their residency here in 5-27-08 15 1 this county? But we'll work through those issues, and -- and 2 we'll get there. Let's get on with our agenda. The first 3 item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take 4 appropriate action regarding a new leash law at Flat Rock 5 Lake Park. Sandra Shelby asked that this item be placed on 6 the agenda. Is Ms. Shelby present? 7 (No response.) 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know what she was -- 9 what her concern was? 10 MS. GRINSTEAD: I don't. She just said she wanted 11 action taken, but she said she would be here. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You've not heard from her that she's 14 been detained or otherwise not available? 15 (Ms. Grinstead shook her head negatively.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have a phone number 17 for her? 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: I don't. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's pass on that one at the 20 moment, and if she does appear, we can take that matter up 21 again. We'll go to Item 2; consider, discuss, and take 22 appropriate action on request for resolution in support of 23 utilizing a portion of the annual renewal fees to Texas Parks 24 and Wildlife for predator control. I placed this on the 25 agenda at the request of a county commissioner in Sutton 5-27-08 16 1 County who is attempting to gather some support for a 2 movement to take part of the licensing fees, a portion as yet 3 undetermined, to be placed in a fund for predator control. 4 Commissioner John Wade, the Commissioner in Precinct 2 in 5 Sutton County, also is on the Texas Board of -- Texas Sheep 6 and Goat Predator Management Board, and indicated that the 7 Texas Sheep and Goat Raisers Association and the Texas Sheep 8 and Goat Predator Management Board has, in fact, already 9 endorsed this proposal. So, at his request, I brought it 10 before the Court for their consideration and action, if so 11 desired. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I couldn't agree 13 more. There's definitely a predator problem, and some 14 members of this Court actually deal with that issue on a 15 day-to-day basis. But there's a lot -- I think there's a lot 16 more folks in our community or in our county that -- that are 17 still ranch -- that still ranch and still have livestock, 18 more than we hear about and more than we think that's here, 19 and so those folks -- any way that we can help. And I know 20 it's a horrible problem; Bandera County is really, really 21 struggling with theirs. But -- and it's an excellent -- 22 excellent place. It is the place, in my opinion, to -- to 23 get money. And I don't think that they're -- they're talking 24 about an increase on state fees, and no increase or any new 25 moneys coming out of county coffers. It's just raking off a 5-27-08 17 1 little bit that's already collected, and the perfect place to 2 do it, so I'm in favor. If somebody's going to make a 3 motion, I'm certainly going to vote for this. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to pass the 5 resolution, but I have a couple of possible modifications. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion in favor of the 7 resolution that's been tendered. Do I hear a second? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a second. Question or 10 discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question I had -- and I guess 12 I read it a little bit differently than Commissioner Baldwin. 13 I thought it was a new $2 fee, or a new fee on top of the 14 current license, and I don't have any problem with that. 15 Either way, doesn't make any difference to me. But my real 16 question is, it says a portion of annual license fees. Are 17 they talking about all Parks and Wildlife fees? Or hunting 18 license fees? Because -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in his cover letter; 20 he said hunting. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I anticipated to be 22 hunting, because Parks and Wildlife issues hundreds of 23 licenses for all kinds of purposes, and I don't -- you know, 24 and I think we ought to be more specific, if it's hunting 25 licenses or all fees. 5-27-08 18 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree, it needs to be 2 specific what the fee's going to come from. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In his cover letter, in the 4 second paragraph, he talks about $2 on every hunting license 5 sold in the state of Texas. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So -- well, with that 7 change, I would say a -- you know, utilizing a portion of the 8 annual hunting license -- hunting and fishing license? 9 Actually, just hunting. I think hunting is really more 10 targeted for this. And I think that the -- I don't know. As 11 an idea, if you have this going in some big general fund, 12 maybe it should come back to the counties where the -- or it 13 needs to be targeted where the funding goes back to the 14 predator control services that counties already provide. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your mind, does this tie 16 into the trapper -- trapper -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, very much, because we pay 18 that salary. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's to offset -- I look at 21 this as to offset that cost, or -- and allow -- and/or allow 22 counties to get a little, you know, more breathing room so 23 they can, you know, hire an additional -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This could make a -- could 25 make a big difference in the amount of money that they have 5-27-08 19 1 to spend on predator control, because right now the funds are 2 pretty limited. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Commissioner Baldwin said 4 ranching, but this is really -- this goes way beyond just 5 ranching people. This goes to golf courses that hogs root 6 up, you know, -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Domestic pets. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- domestic pets, coyotes 9 coming in. It's a problem. It really affects almost 10 everyone in the hill country counties, certainly Kerr County, 11 and probably all surrounding counties. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. You're talking about 13 modifying the first resolved to be funds from annual hunting 14 and fishing license renewal fees? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that what you're talking 17 about? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Hunting and fishing, or hunting? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hunting. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hunting? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it'll also go up under 23 the -- the second line of the resolution, annual hunting 24 license fees. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5-27-08 20 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 3 in favor of the motion to approve the resolution as amended 4 here, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The caption, Judge, should 10 also say hunting. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, in the bold type up top. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 3, if we might. 14 Consider, discuss, take appropriate action to solicit 15 Requests for Proposals and/or Requests for Qualifications to 16 provide medical services to inmates at Kerr County Jail. I 17 put this on the agenda at the request of the Sheriff, who had 18 a proposal made to him from a private contractor to provide 19 those services as a private contractor. Initially, I would 20 note that the County Attorney, relative to Request for 21 Proposal or Request for Qualifications, has indicated that 22 inasmuch as that is a professional service, in the event the 23 -- the Court so chooses, that is exempted under the 24 provisions of Section 262.024 of the Local Government Code, 25 if the Court decides to permit that exemption, and thereby 5-27-08 21 1 take it out of the ordinary bidding process, because it is 2 professional services. Sheriff, I'll turn it over to you at 3 this point. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. As y'all know, a few 5 weeks ago -- a month ago, y'all authorized me to hire, I 6 think, at least three more medical personnel to help with our 7 exorbitant medical issues and costs at the -- at the jail. 8 About that same time, shortly after that, I also got notice 9 of a company -- corporation that does nothing but medical 10 services for small and medium-sized jails. They currently 11 operate in 11 states, not Texas. They're -- they have 12 decided and grown to the point now where they feel like they 13 can take on Texas. They -- they're based out of Chattanooga, 14 Tennessee. The CEO of the company did fly down himself and 15 met with us. I called -- they've got, like I said, 11 16 states, 131 jails, and they do medical in those jails, and 17 the average population that ranges anywhere from 25 to 750 18 inmates or so in each one of those jails. They come in, 19 provide the nurses, the doctors, everything, and do 24-hour 20 care. 21 They do not -- with our population, their proposal 22 would not be on-site 24 hours a day. They would have about 23 56 hours a week inside our facility, eight hours a day, seven 24 days a week, including holidays and weekends, and then two 25 hours one day a week for the doctor or nurse practitioner 5-27-08 22 1 themselves to come in. They carry the -- all the malpractice 2 insurance, the other insurances that we need. Rex and I have 3 looked at it a little bit on this. I've asked them to make a 4 few changes in their proposal that they gave us. One is -- 5 and the CEO knew this -- in the other states, the 6 indemnification can be both ways. In Texas, it can't. So, 7 they will still indemnify us; we can't indemnify them. That 8 will come out of their -- their proposal. Their other deal 9 on the proposal, they gave us an average daily population of 10 160 inmates. Then after that, it goes up about $1.25 or 11 $1.30 per day, per inmate, above that average. I asked them 12 to up the proposal in that average, instead of using 160 -- 13 this last month alone, we've been at 189, and a 192-bed, 14 that's going to be a whole 'nother issue we're going to hit 15 real quick. But they'll up it to somewhere around -- 16 probably around 180, 170 to 180 as an average, and then we'll 17 look at it. 18 The cost would be right at 160,000 a year. It's 19 159,600 in this. Now, upping the average will probably 20 change that a little bit. It's actually 13,300 -- or 13,000 21 a month -- 13,300 a month. The things that are covered in 22 that cost would be wages and benefits for nurses, medical 23 director and mental health practitioner, liability 24 insurances, medical supplies, over-the-counter medication, 25 lab tests and procedures, office supplies, forms, folders, 5-27-08 23 1 all administrative support items, travel, lodging, et cetera, 2 recruiting costs, educational material, long distance phone 3 charges, disposal of medical waste, and other on-site 4 services, anything else they do inside the jail. Now, 5 another part of this proposal is what they call a cost pool, 6 which the other services would fall under that cost pool. 7 The original contract of the 160,000 would cover 30,000 in 8 the cost pool, and then another 5,000 for the next 10,000, 9 'cause you pay 50/50 at that. Then after 40,000 out of the 10 cost pool stuff, Kerr County has to start paying 100 percent 11 of those costs, which those items would be -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, wait. Wait, you've lot 13 me. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The contract is for 15 160,000. That covers all the things I mentioned, okay. Now, 16 if you have to go see the doctor outside -- an outside 17 doctor, hospital, emergency room, things like that, all those 18 expenses -- prescription medications -- come out of what is 19 called a cost pool. The first 30,000 that is billed in that 20 cost pool is covered under that original 160,000 contract, 21 okay? After 30,000, the next 10,000, they pay 50 percent; we 22 pay 50 percent. All right? So, that's 5,000 up to 40,000. 23 After 40,000 in outside costs, then we pay 100 percent of 24 those costs, okay? That's the way that works. Now, all 25 those cost pool items are prescription medication, dentist 5-27-08 24 1 charges outside the detention center, on- and off-site 2 radiology procedures, physician charges outside the detention 3 center, emergency room charges, ambulance charges, dialysis 4 and other hospital or medical charges incurred outside the 5 detention center. All right? 6 If I were to cut four authorized positions for 7 medical personnel -- I would like to keep my EMT and the 8 clerk, 'cause I still want to have our own recordkeeping, and 9 I think I need my EMT there, because they envision 10 distributing, like, prescription medications twice a day 11 instead of three and four times a day through their doctor 12 stuff. But even if it is -- they're going to be there eight 13 hours a day, so it still leaves our staff that have to -- to 14 distribute medication at different times, which is the same 15 thing I've been doing now. But I'd like to have the EMT be 16 able to do that, and not put that back on jail staff, which 17 -- which just adds more to my overburdened jail staff as it 18 is. That's not what I want to do. I want to have a better 19 way of covering the county liability, but cutting down some 20 of our medical costs if we can. That -- those four 21 positions, with FICA and everything else, according to the 22 H.R. person, and at a 22-1, which is the LVN starting pay of 23 Kerr County, would actually end up saving -- or end up 24 costing 207,619 a year, just for four positions. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 207 -- 5-27-08 25 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $207,619.84. That's what 2 our -- just our personnel costs would be for the next year. 3 This contract would be for 159,600 a year. And I don't have 4 those costs. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, you lost me a little 6 bit. You say if you cut four slots -- now, is that four 7 slots that are in this budget that we have today? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is four -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is this something that 10 you're going to propose that you want four more slots for 11 next year? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes and no. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of those. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is -- I have two slots 18 that I've had for years, all right? This Court, about a 19 month ago, gave me three more slots. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To be paid for out of my 22 current budget, because of salaries, different openings and 23 that, and we can do that. Those three slots would, of 24 course, next year be added into the -- to the actual cost of 25 the budget. That's why I say yes and no, all right? But 5-27-08 26 1 even though I think we can pay for it this year -- I know we 2 can, 'cause we had some openings, whether they be deputy or 3 jailers. But -- so, I've -- I've got five positions for 4 medical, and I'm -- I'm wanting to take that down to one 5 position, okay? I'll keep one medical position just for 6 these off-time and emergency first aid, plus this is one of 7 the instructors that's going to be teaching the rest of the 8 County employees on first aid and -- and the defibrillator 9 and all. That helps us. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to net one -- one 11 less personnel in the new budget; is that correct? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it would be. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Go from 207 to 160. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, but that -- actually, 15 we've approved three more slots -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- just the other day, and he 18 has five slots. He says he wants to get rid of four, the way 19 I understood it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, three of them -- 23 three of them are not yet funded in the new budget. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. So -- they're not 25 going to be, so we're actually going to get a minus one 5-27-08 27 1 person in his future budget. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But adding 160,000 for this. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We lose personnel and add 5 contract services. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Add contract services 7 instead. Plus, is there going to be some -- some medication 8 savings and things that they think they can -- the cost will 9 be less? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: According to their CEO, who 11 flew up here, and talking to them, their estimate on a jail 12 our size, running the number of inmates we normally run, we 13 probably should expect to have 30 to -- to 35 inmates on 14 prescription medication, okay? Currently, we have 68. They 15 also expect our -- our doctor visits or out of -- you know, 16 out of the facility visits to get cut way back. This year -- 17 last year, my medical expenses, okay, not -- not salaries, 18 except for our contract doctor that comes in once a week, but 19 all our other expenses, medical-wise, was -- at the -- at the 20 end of April last year, was 74,000. At the end of April this 21 year, was 110,000. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's this going to do to the 23 doctor that comes in once a week now? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He won't be there any more. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, is that -- is that included 5-27-08 28 1 in that four reduction? Or is that -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. It -- no, it's -- that 3 -- he's billing us 600 a week. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Coming in. That is not 6 included in my cost reduction, but it would be a reduction. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's 30,000, roughly, 8 that you'll eliminate. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You say you want to keep one 12 person that's a clerk-type person, I think. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I want to keep one clerk who's 14 coming out of another line item. That one's not even part of 15 the medical, but she is my medical clerk, okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you said you wanted to 17 keep that person because of the off time. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not the clerk. Keep my 19 EMT, the one medical person, because of the different times 20 and the different -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're going to keep a 22 clerk and -- and a medical person, so that's two persons. 23 Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The clerk comes out of a 25 separate line item. 5-27-08 29 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- but my point in all of 3 this is, off time -- tell me again about -- are there times 4 when this company's not going to be here? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Now, tell me 7 what that is again. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What they're staffing and what 9 they're proposing is, they're proposing that the medical 10 director, the -- or the physician, two hours a week on, like, 11 Mondays, somewhere around there, and on call all the time. 12 They're proposing their LVN or RN or nurse practitioner, 40 13 hours a week, and then the other one, another 16 hours a week 14 to cover the weekends and the holidays. So, they're 15 proposing a total of 56, 58 hours a week of somebody in the 16 facility, but on call 24 hours. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these people -- those 18 people that are going to be here, the company will contract 19 with some local doctor or something like that? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Company will contract with the 21 local doctor, and they hire their own nurses, and that -- I 22 did try and do some background checks. They've got 131 jails 23 listed right now; Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, South 24 Carolina, Virginia, all up through that portion. I called 25 about 20 of those. I have not had a bad reference yet, not 5-27-08 30 1 from their own employees who work for that company up there, 2 or the jails and jail administrators and sheriffs that -- 3 that have the contract with them. They don't have any 4 problems with them. The other thing, I did call the Texas 5 Commission on Jail Standards. They had not heard of them 6 much, because they haven't moved into Texas yet. But this 7 company is accredited through the National Commission on 8 Corrections Health Care, and the Texas Jail Commission said 9 if they are accredited through that organization, they 10 probably -- they should even have higher standards than what 11 the Texas Jail Commission requires. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't believe they'd say 13 something like that. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, believe it or not. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, is this something 16 that you want to do now, or for next budget year? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'd like to see if we 18 can get started as soon as possible. My problem is, I'm -- 19 I've got one of the three positions that I could hire. I've 20 had that person -- we'd offered a job and this came up; I had 21 them hold off, but I could get that one. And I'm having a 22 harder time -- and I don't -- our current -- I think our 23 current medical is getting totally out of control. I think 24 we've had some staff, contracted or otherwise, that have been 25 there -- that have been there 10, 15 years, and are at the 5-27-08 31 1 point of, "Okay, this is what we give you." You know, "What 2 do you need today? Okay." Instead of really controlling 3 medical. And I think we're getting out of control, which is 4 costing more and more. Instead of going ahead and hiring 5 those three new ones that you gave me and all that, and then 6 having to go through an attrition period and trying to cut it 7 back down, I think this is an opportune time to contract with 8 this. Because we are paying it at the 13 -- 13,300 or just a 9 little bit above per month, and we -- we can do it easier at 10 this moment with where we are than we can with anything else. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this firm licensed to do 12 business in Texas? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This firm is licensed to do 14 business across the U.S. They first started out -- 'cause 15 they use doctors and nurses licensed here, okay? They first 16 started out doing prisons, and still do a lot of prisons, and 17 their CEO and that -- and then they went and decided that, 18 really, the better need -- and I don't know why anybody would 19 want to get into inmate medical care, but they -- they felt 20 the bigger need was in smaller to mid-size county jails. And 21 I agree with them; there's a strong need in it. But -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, you mentioned that 23 your medical expenses over the last two years have ranged 24 from 74,000 to 110,000, and that the doctor -- the doctor 25 contract equates to about 31.2 -- 31,000. Is that 31,000 5-27-08 32 1 part of the medical expense number you gave, or is that on 2 top of? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The 31,000 is part of the 4 medical expense in the budget. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: From the 74 to 110. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What is not part of that 74 to 9 110 is the medical personnel salary at the jail. It isn't 10 that contracted doctor, it is not any of our nurses or 11 anything else. That's on top of all that. So, the -- if I 12 hired one -- if I kept the four positions at 207,000, that -- 13 that would be on top -- over all medical, that's on top of 14 that 110. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff, the -- you mentioned 17 this 58 hours a week, you'll have someone in the jail that 18 are on call 24 hours a day. How -- how is that -- is that 19 included? Is that overtime? Say, you know, someone ends up 20 being there, you know 20 hours a day. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's their employee, not 22 ours. We don't have anything to do with that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's going to be -- it's 24 unlimited overtime or however they want to handle it, up to a 25 hundred and -- I mean, is it within that $160,000? 5-27-08 33 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No -- we don't pay any more, 2 okay? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's included in that? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We pay 160,000 no matter what. 5 But their estimates on what they're proposing is going to be 6 that 58 hours a week that they're there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But if they're having 8 to come in on a lot of overtime, they're not going to cut 9 back during the day? Or does it make any difference? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They could, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're still going to have 12 to be on call so someone's there. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How would you budget for 15 the excess -- the potential of excess over the 160,000? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would still keep my 17 medical -- some of my medical budget, just like we do now 18 each year, in estimating what our medical cost's going to be. 19 This year it's dropped a lot. If -- if you look at a lot -- 20 part of it, since they're now using the -- and paying the 21 indigent care part, we've been billed -- okay, now, not this. 22 We've been billed in medical bills over 100,000 so far this 23 year. The County has paid, because they're paying the 24 indigent care through the Auditor and that, about 42,000, 25 okay? So, the hospital and doctors have billed us, so we 5-27-08 34 1 would still continue that part of it. But until you get 2 above the 30,000 and we start paying 50/50, we don't even get 3 the bills. They take care of all that, and they bill it 4 through the -- through that same company. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will they go after the indigent 6 health care themselves? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or do that filing? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They do all that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What about reimbursements? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As far as -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reimbursements received through 13 the inmates, their commissary funds, or maybe coverage that 14 they have available. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They recommend strongly that 16 we still continue to charge inmates through the commissary 17 account for doctor visits, for -- for medical or for anything 18 that -- you know, any expenses we have, unless they're an 19 indigent inmate and you can't, but otherwise, that we do. 20 That's -- that's our reimbursement. They don't get that. 21 They do their own. They don't -- they don't see any of that. 22 That's just ours. What costs us is their contract. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: On the 100,000 that's been billed, I 24 believe you said 30 or 40 of which had been actually paid by 25 the County? 5-27-08 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the entire excess, the difference 3 there, the 60,000 or 70,000, whichever it may be, was all of 4 that paid through our Indigent Health Care program? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't think the excess 6 was paid at all. The -- the County, for inmate health care, 7 as far as medical bills and that, we've been billed by the 8 hospital or private doctor's offices a little over 100,000. 9 The County has paid -- because under that deal, they consider 10 all inmates indigent, okay? The County has paid only 42,000 11 of that hundred and some thousand. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the indigent health 13 care -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- discount, in essence? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The rate schedule we pay under. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what we're paying 19 under. And then -- but, of course, some of that does not 20 cover very many of the prescription meds and things like that 21 that we're paying. Now, the other -- a lot of other costs 22 that's coming out of our medical budget, you know, is 23 supplies, is the employees, is the benefits, is a lot of the 24 prescriptions, a lot of over-the-counter meds, all that kind 25 of stuff, which we won't have over-the-counter meds; they 5-27-08 36 1 take care of over-the-counter meds and that. I think what 2 we'll see, and what my goal is, if we can cut the number of 3 inmates on prescriptions down drastically -- 'cause they will 4 do it if it's medically or dentally necessary, and that's it. 5 If you cut the number of -- of doctor visits -- outside 6 doctor visits down, because they have a doctor that can do it 7 in-house, you're going to see a lot of change in being able 8 to run the jail on fewer staff. Because what we're having to 9 do now that is killing us is taking five to six inmates a day 10 to outside doctor's appointments, some of them being set up 11 in San Antonio, some of them being set up in -- and one 12 Friday going to Leon Springs, okay. And some of this is done 13 by staff. You're going to cut down -- if you -- if you cut 14 down on -- from 68, 70 inmates on prescription meds that 15 you're having to pass out four times a day, down to 30 16 inmates on prescription meds that you're passing out two to 17 three times a day, depending on the medication, but they 18 don't give the -- a lot of the medications just to help them 19 sleep at night and things that have gotten totally out of 20 control, I think, in the current situation. To give 21 medically necessary ones, but not -- not a lot of this other. 22 And the over-the-counter, I think you're going to save a lot 23 of time on the rest of the staff -- you know, our staff being 24 able to do their duties day to day. And that's where -- when 25 I came to y'all asking for three more people if something 5-27-08 37 1 drastically didn't change, yeah, we had to have -- and we're 2 at the point of having to have round-the-clock care, unless 3 something can drastically change. And if this company's been 4 doing this and they have the -- the insurance capabilities 5 and underwriters to do it, and they can get it back to 6 emergency medical care, I think everybody's better off. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: They're seeking a one-year contract. 11 Is that what we're looking at here? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Seeking a one-year contract. 13 If we renew it, it's a 3 percent increase, is what they 14 estimate each year in the contract. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that plugged in? An increase not 16 to exceed 3 percent? Or -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What the -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- do you recall? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You get billed per month. 20 Future year's pricing -- second and third years, if Kerr 21 County elects to contract with Southern Health Partners, we 22 will -- we are willing to set fixed price increases for the 23 second and third year in advance for each of these years. We 24 offer to set our price increase at a fixed 3 percent. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The agenda item is styled as 5-27-08 38 1 take action to solicit Request for Proposal or Request for 2 Qualifications. So, I mean, to me, I'm in favor of, you 3 know, certainly doing that, and probably in favor of doing 4 the whole thing. So, I'll make a motion that we authorize 5 the Sheriff to solicit Requests for Qualifications to provide 6 medical services to inmates in Kerr County Jail, and this is 7 exempt from the -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bidding. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- bidding statute, Section 10 262.024. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. I have one 12 more question of the Sheriff. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 14 or discussion on the motion? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One last question, Sheriff. 16 In terms of your desire to get this started as quickly as 17 possible, if it is started as soon as can be in the current 18 budget year, what is the current budget year impact? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the current budget year 20 impact would be less than me hiring the other three people 21 that I have -- you know, that would come out of my current 22 budget year. I don't see, at 13,000 a -- well, it may be -- 23 if we do four with the -- I'd have to go back and see. If 24 you're talking four employees at 207,000, okay, is -- is what 25 we could handle totally, then that -- that's a full year. 5-27-08 39 1 I'd just have to go back and refigure whether we're going to 2 come out even, or whether I'm going to have to pay a little 3 bit more. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four months, third of a 5 year. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, 207,000 divided by four. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 60 -- 50,000 plus. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then, depending on if your 9 -- if your prescription bills go down and your hospital bills 10 go down during that same time, I think you're just going to 11 be close as to whether or not we would. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If those bills don't go 13 down, I mean, this is -- this is ridiculous to have this 14 conversation, if those things don't -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it is, but it isn't 16 also. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the liability. The one 19 thing our -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A lot of trouble bringing in 21 an outside company. Listen, the CFO guy that flew in here to 22 visit with you, -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: CEO. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- did he fly commercially 25 or privately? 5-27-08 40 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't ask him. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to know. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did do one other thing. 4 Charles Frigerio, who represents me and this county on any of 5 our lawsuits, one thing he has been trying to get us to do 6 for quite a while is get a contract with our physician, and 7 our physician has never come up with one or agreed to sign a 8 contract currently, because he says you need that under your 9 -- your liability issues. In visiting with him, he is also 10 doing some research -- I talked to him last week, and he's 11 pulling up, seeing what else he can find out. In doing that, 12 and visiting with Rex, one of the biggest savings that we 13 could also come up with is the liability under medical care. 14 It's all under their insurance liability. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it may need some 16 tweaking down the road, but I think, you know, I like 17 contracting this service out. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do too, basically. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I like the liability 20 side of it. I like having it -- you know, probably they're 21 going to run it pretty tight, because it's their dollars, and 22 the less they spend on some of this stuff, the better, and I 23 think that's better for the taxpayers in general. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 5-27-08 41 1 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 2 raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 7 Sheriff. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a 9:30 item that we ran over 10 during the course of that discussion, and I will call that 11 item. Item 4, to open bids for 4,400 square feet of concrete 12 for the storage area at the Kerr County Fairgrounds and take 13 appropriate action to award bid and authorize construction. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got a fancy letter 15 opener. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. Must be afraid I was 17 going to start cutting my hand off with my dull pocketknife. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a bid from Freed and 19 Barker Concrete. Wait a minute. I think this is on the -- 20 this is on the sidewalk. This one is -- hold that one for 21 the moment. Freed and Barker on the -- on the Ag Barn 22 foundation project, total job price, 15,793. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sixteen? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 15,793. Yeah, 16, roughly. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This one has both of them, it 5-27-08 42 1 appears, Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And another proposal from Montgomery 3 Construction, with one bid submitted for all three of the -- 4 or both of the concrete items. On the 4,400 square feet of 5 concrete, 16,370. Next bid is from Thomas Mall Concrete, 6 25,800. We have a bid from Jimmy Bitner, d/b/a Bitner 7 Supply. I'm having difficulty finding where the bid price is 8 included on this particular -- yes, here it is, on the very 9 front. I'm sorry, the very top. 22,386.78, materials and 10 labor. Bid from Schwarz Construction Company, 22,525. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that one. Move we accept 14 all bids and refer them to Maintenance for recommendation. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance Director. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 18 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 19 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 24 to Item 5, which is a 9:40 timed item. We ran over that one 25 too. Open bids for 648 square feet of concrete sidewalk at 5-27-08 43 1 the Kerr County Courthouse take appropriate action to award 2 bid and authorize construction. We have, in one of the bids, 3 Montgomery Construction, on the removal and replacement of 4 that sidewalk, $6,485. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That second number gets added 6 to that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- there was an add-on. The 8 Montgomery Construction granite and curb, if needed, 600 9 square feet, 2,850. I would note that the -- that that 10 Montgomery construction bid was a composite or total for all 11 the projects, $29,145, but which did not include granite and 12 curbs. The other bid on the sidewalk, another bid is Freed 13 and Barker. Total price, $8,940. Another bid, Thomas Mall 14 Concrete, $8,850. Another bid, Schwarz Construction, 15 $14,310. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept all bids and 17 refer them to the Maintenance Director for recommendation. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 21 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-27-08 44 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When are you coming back, 3 Mr. Tim? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We also have a 9:50 timed item, Item 5 Number 6, which we ran by, which I will now call. Open bids 6 for one 6-ton air conditioning unit and four 8 1/2-ton air 7 conditioning units, take appropriate action to award bid in 8 whole or in part as applicable. First bid that we have is 9 from Trademark. The Option 1 appears to be based on a 10 10 SEER unit, R-22. For three 8 1/2-ton rooftop units and two 11 6-ton package units, $31,500. Option 2 is a 13 SEER Puron 12 unit. Three 8 1/2-ton package units on rooftop, and two 13 6-ton A/C package units, total is $53,750. Next one is from 14 Hardin Heating and Cooling. Two Carrier 6-ton units and 15 three Carrier 8 1/2-ton package units, the total price, 16 $26,621. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the same amount -- 18 the same number of units as the other one? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In Option 1. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Different configuration. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All three numbers are a little 22 bit -- all three proposals are a little bit different. 23 But -- you know, so that's it, just those two. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, just those two. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept all air 5-27-08 45 1 conditioning bids and refer to the Maintenance Director for 2 recommendation. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 6 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a general comment. You 12 might want to visit with Rex on that one bid that came in all 13 combined to see if that's good, on the -- on the concrete 14 ones that all came in as one bid, whether they can be 15 separated or not. I don't know if he violated our bid 16 request or not. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on that 18 item? We'll now go to a 10 o'clock timed item, to consider, 19 discuss, and take appropriate action to open and award bid 20 for a C-7500 truck equipped with an aerial bucket and chip 21 box. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The old chip box. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: First bid that I have is Ufleet, 24 $69,900. The next one -- this is all one? -- is from Terex 25 Utilities Incorporated, $65,000 even. 5-27-08 46 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we refer bids to the 2 Road and Bridge Supervisor and wait on recommendation. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I should have said 7 administrator. I think I said supervisor. Administrator. 8 MR. ODOM: What's in a name? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You'd think after all these 10 years, he'd probably remember. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? All in 12 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I have 17 another 10 o'clock timed item. At this time, I will recess 18 the Commissioners Court meeting, and I will convene a public 19 hearing for the revision of plat, Ingram Hills, Lot 25, as 20 set forth in volume 3, Page 149 of Plat Records, and located 21 in Precinct 4. 22 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:04 a.m., and a public hearing was held in 23 open court, as follows:) 24 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 5-27-08 47 1 that wishes to be heard with regard to the revision of the 2 plat for Ingram Hills, Lot 25, as set forth in Volume 3, Page 3 149, Plat Records? 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one seeking to be 6 recognized, I will close the public hearing for the revision 7 of plat for Ingram Hills, Lot 25, as set forth in Volume 3, 8 Page 149, Plat Records, and at this time I will convene a 9 public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 23 and 24W in 10 The Reserve of Falling Water, as set forth in Volume 7, Page 11 215 of the Plat Records, and located in Precinct 3. 12 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:05 a.m., and a second public hearing was held in open court, 13 as follows:) 14 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 16 that wishes to be heard with regard to the revision of plat 17 for Lots 23 and 24W in The Reserve of Falling Water, as set 18 forth in Volume 7, Page 215, Plat Records? 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one seeking to be 21 recognized, I will close that public hearing. 22 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:05 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 23 reopened.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And we'll go to Item 7 on the 5-27-08 48 1 agenda, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 2 name a private road per 911 guidelines. 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is an unnamed road 4 located off Highway 27 near Dove Valley. It meets 911 5 guidelines, and the homeowners want it to be named Target 6 Hill Road. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll now 17 go to Item 8, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 18 action to approve the final plat of Headwaters Ranch, Phase 19 3, located in Precinct 4. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The average lot size is 20 21 acres, so no overall drainage plan is required. Street 22 profiles, ditches, and cross-drainage plans were required and 23 completed. Our consulting engineer, Wayne Wells, has 24 reviewed the plan and given verbal approval. Headwaters 25 Ranch, Phase 3 will have a local road to be 5-27-08 49 1 County-maintained, and today we are requesting the final 2 approval of Phase 3 of Headwaters Ranch. And if there are 3 any questions, Sam Poorman's here to answer any questions you 4 might have. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see the road notation. 6 Are these to be County-maintained roads? It just says 7 they're dedicated. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, all three phases. We had two 9 phases. Phase 1 and 2 we've already done. Phase 3 is the 10 last portion which we had them redo. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 16 motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your 17 right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 22 to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 23 approve actuarial services for GASB 45 with Gabriel Roeder 24 Smith and Company, and the interlocal agreement with the 25 North Central Texas Council of Governments. Commissioners 5-27-08 50 1 Court approved the Auditor's Office preparing and requesting 2 an RFP for those actuary services on February the 11th, 2008. 3 Ms. Hargis? 4 MS. HARGIS: These services are for our post and 5 retirement benefits, the health care benefits that we now 6 provide to our retirees. We are required, under the law, 7 under the AICPA rules, to have this number in our financial 8 statements in 2009, and in order to do that, we have to get 9 the study prepared, and it takes about six to nine months to 10 have the study done. So, this particular company is working 11 through the North Central Texas Council of Governments. They 12 have been approved through that bid process, and it's already 13 taken place. There are many other counties using this same 14 service, as well as several cities. We have to book this 15 liability on our financial statements, and this is how we get 16 it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this a new requirement, or 18 something that we just -- 19 MS. HARGIS: No, it's not a new requirement. It -- 20 actually, we are the -- it's being phased in in three phases, 21 just like GASB 34 was. GASB 34 started with the large 22 counties. Then the second was the mid-size, and then small. 23 We fall under the small category, and we are required to have 24 this ready for our financial statements for the next audit, 25 actually, when they prepare it. 5-27-08 51 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The purpose of this is to 2 establish our contingent liability; is that correct? 3 MS. HARGIS: This establishes our actuarial 4 liability for -- and then we decide how we're going to put it 5 on our financial statements. There are two ways of doing it, 6 and they'll make that recommendation at that time. You can 7 prefund, which I personally wouldn't recommend, or you do it 8 on a cash basis, which is what we're doing now. We currently 9 have only 12 retirees on this program, but we have the 10 possibility of all 300 employees retiring and being on this 11 service at some time. This is the controversial GASB 45 that 12 the State decided not to put on their financials, and put 13 into a note. But the State uses a different type of 14 financial statement presentation, and all the other counties 15 and the cities in the state of Texas are going with this 16 rather than using the state, because this could affect our 17 bond rating if we don't have this in our financials. At this 18 time, I cannot tell you whether it's a large number or small 19 number. Usually it comes out to be a very large number. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The liability? 21 MS. HARGIS: The liability. But, again, it's a 22 liability that is incurred on an annual basis. It is a 23 liability that, at some point in time, the County can decide 24 that they no longer offer that, 'cause we don't have a 25 contract for that. However, right now you do offer it, and 5-27-08 52 1 so, therefore, we are required to report it under GASB 45. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the cost is estimated to be 3 4,680? 4 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- I mean, how -- 6 MS. HARGIS: That's fairly reasonable. If you go 7 out on your own, what I'm seeing is 10 to 20 to 30,000. 8 These are -- it requires a lot of work because of the 9 actuarial studies involved in it. They've gotten better at 10 it. Fortunately for us, we are the -- you know, coming in on 11 the third year, so we've kind of learned from the big cities 12 and the counties. The cities were actually hit first, 'cause 13 they were larger than some of the counties. But this is -- 14 you know, this is a very controversial one. That is the one 15 that's probably going to get GASB closed down, but -- I hope, 16 in the future. GFOA, which is the Government Finance 17 Officers Association, is trying to get GASB to be dismantled 18 and the rules and regulations to go back under what is FASB, 19 which has been in existence since the 1800's, which is the -- 20 the Financial Accounting Standards Board that's set the 21 standards for accounting standards for years. GASB's gotten 22 a little out of hand. Their original proposal was that they 23 would put together financial statements and stop with 34, and 24 there are now 56 to 57 statements out there. Some of them 25 just involve internal control. The new ones, some of them 5-27-08 53 1 involve fraud, and right now they haven't -- the finance 2 offices have not won that battle. So, you may see that in 3 the next couple of years. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This says an additional fee of 5 1,560 will be added if claims experience is required. When 6 will they determine that? 7 MS. HARGIS: We will determine that. I talked to 8 him about that. If we decide that the -- what he gives us is 9 the number we want to go with, and that's what we'll do. If 10 we decide to expand it -- in other words, we want to expand 11 our actuarial study to include different classes of people, 12 we can do that, but -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want to do that. 14 MS. HARGIS: I don't recommend that. I know I 15 wouldn't recommend that. I think we just get the study right 16 now. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jeannie, the dollar amount 19 you quoted as the fee, is that -- does that include the 20 option study that he talks about here? Telling us what our 21 options are for mitigating the OPEB liability, and the cost 22 of that study is 780. Is that included in the amount that 23 you're talking about? 24 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't believe that it is. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that something we want 5-27-08 54 1 to do? 2 MS. HARGIS: We would like to have the options. 3 Again, I would rather you just approve the 4,680. Let's see 4 what it is, and then, if I think -- if we decide we want the 5 options, we can let them come back with that. I'd -- I think 6 it's not going to be that bad a number. I may be wrong. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, the options are 8 something you might know; is that correct? 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes. The options are whether you go 10 cash or you do the other, and I think our financial adviser 11 and I, and our -- and your external auditor, we can decide 12 those options without having them do that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are budgeted funds 15 somewhere? 16 MS. HARGIS: I'm going to have to find them in 17 mine, I'm sure. 'Cause the auditor that we used -- we 18 changed used our full budget, so we're going to have to find 19 this somewhere else. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have any funds in 21 Professional Services? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes, we do. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the likely spot right 24 now. 25 MS. HARGIS: They probably won't bill us all of it 5-27-08 55 1 until -- we'll probably pay half of it, and then they'll bill 2 the rest of it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 4 item to -- to require the actuarial services for GASB 45 with 5 Gabriel Roeder Smith and Company. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include the interlocal 8 agreement with North Central Texas Council of Governments 9 which would include that? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does, and the County 11 Judge to sign same. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And does it include the funds 13 to come from Professional Services? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does. Thank you for 15 reminding me. Anything else we need to add? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 17 question or discussion on the motion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wonder if the County 19 Attorney has signed off on this document. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You're reading my mind, 21 Commissioner. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I know. You're good at that. 24 Fortunately, I'm not very good at reading yours. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you gotten an answer for 5-27-08 56 1 that? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm waiting for him to 3 jump up and down. 4 MR. EMERSON: Not all of it, no. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's an agreement with a 6 private company. 7 MR. EMERSON: How about approval subject to my 8 review? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what the motion implies. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly what I said. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 12 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 13 raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 18 to Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 19 proposed concept for revision of plat for Live Springs Ranch. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Live Springs is out in 21 Precinct 4 off of Henderson Branch Road. I met with 22 Mr. Voelkel. I think Jonathan was with us one time. We 23 talked about what they would like to do would be a -- be a 24 revised -- revision of plat. The developer has spent lots 25 and lots of money in there, and would like to divide some of 5-27-08 57 1 the lots up into smaller pieces. And that's basically it. 2 This would be a -- it would have a little bit of problem. 3 They had their lots a little too big to start with, I 4 believe, and they were not able to sell very many of them and 5 thought that maybe if they did a revised plat -- and, of 6 course, most of this property is in Gillespie County. 7 There's only a very small portion of it in Kerr County. And 8 part of the -- part of the revision process is to get this 9 many lots, it could mandate that you widen the road. Their 10 proposal is to widen the right-of-way that would accommodate 11 a wider road at some point in time, whenever their traffic 12 count would exceed 800 cars a day, but they would have a wide 13 enough right-of-way to have a collector road instead of a 14 local road. So, that can be done at the proper time, 15 whenever the traffic count gets there. So, Mr. Voelkel, did 16 I miss anything? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'll comment on that 18 last point. To me -- and probably -- I guess it requires a 19 waiver on the next item. The -- the intent was -- you know, 20 I think the developer and the County dealt in good faith 21 originally when we put these in as local; it met the 22 qualification. It was never anticipated at that point to do 23 what they are doing now, and to make them go to local roads 24 right now as our rules require would mean just tearing out a 25 brand-new road and rebuilding it, and that just doesn't make 5-27-08 58 1 sense. The -- our rules have multiple criteria for road 2 construction, and one of them is vehicle count, average daily 3 vehicle count. We're keeping that at 800, so -- and we're 4 basing it -- kind of what Bruce and I talked about, which 5 made sense to us, anyway, was to approve a waiver at this 6 point to upgrade the road, but make it a requirement as soon 7 as the average traffic count gets to 800, which is what our 8 current rules say triggers it to get to a collector road. 9 So, we're kind of, you know, within doing what our rules say, 10 but modifying it slightly because of the situation. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And a lot of these homes they 12 feel like that are going to be built there, people are going 13 to buy those tracts, a lot of them are going to be second 14 homes. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so they're not going to 17 have traffic to the -- to the level, you know, that you would 18 have if people were living there, you know, every day of the 19 year. But that also will tie back to traffic count, that the 20 traffic count will mandate at such time that those will have 21 to be wider to meet the standards. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the next agenda item. Right 23 now we're dealing with the concept plan of the subdivision 24 itself as it pertains to Kerr County and smaller lot sizes, I 25 believe, is basically what the approach is. Is that not -- 5-27-08 59 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the lot sizes are in 2 excess of 5-plus acres, and I don't see any problem with -- 3 with the revision of plat as far as lot size goes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick question. 5 How do you get into this subdivision? Off of I-10, the 6 access road, or how do you get in there? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Henderson Branch. 8 MR. VOELKEL: I think it's highlighted in pink, 9 Bill. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 11 MR. VOELKEL: The area highlighted in pink. The 12 entrance road's off of Henderson Branch Road. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Off Highway 27. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Comes off of Highway 27? 15 MR. VOELKEL: Right, comes off of Highway 27 at 16 Lazy Hills Guest Ranch Road and Henderson Branch Road. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which our access to this is 19 much worse than the road that exists in that subdivision. 20 They spent a lot of money in there and did a real fine job on 21 their roads, and so I have no problem at all with the concept 22 of revising them down to smaller lots, 'cause they're still 23 way in excess of minimum. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any formal action of the Court 25 required? Other than -- 5-27-08 60 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think this was just a 2 concept. 3 MR. VOELKEL: We just wanted to get it before 4 everybody, let everybody know what we were doing, make sure 5 everybody felt comfortable with the one concept that we 6 wanted to do, because the next step is going to be to get on 7 the agenda to do a public hearing and revision of plat, final 8 revision. So, it's another preliminary stage, really, in the 9 revision of plat process. So, I -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So you're not seeking any formal 11 action by the Court, other than to just make us aware of what 12 the proposed revision is? 13 MR. VOELKEL: And if there's any, you know, 14 feedback from y'all, you know, we want to hear it. You know, 15 we were also going to -- Les Harvey is here; he's the 16 engineer. He's going to take care of doing any drainage 17 structures and con -- you know, considerations for all the -- 18 you know, the upgrades to the lot size. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any thought of trying 20 to get access off I-10 in Gillespie County? 21 MR. VOELKEL: I don't think so. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's next to impossible, I 23 can tell you that up front. It's almost cost-prohibitive, 24 number one, and secondly, it's almost impossible. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there an access road 5-27-08 61 1 there? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know a man that owned the 3 300 acres that's now part of the subdivision that fronts on 4 I-10, that was landlocked when I-10 came through, and it was 5 almost impossible to ever make that happen. I'm sure with 6 enough money -- I imagine if you had two or three million 7 dollars or more, may take more than that, you might could get 8 access to it. But it's -- 9 MR. VOELKEL: That never has been an option. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- slim or none. This is the 11 only way in and out of there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments? Questions? 13 Thank you, sir. 14 MR. VOELKEL: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call Item 14; consider, 16 discuss, and take appropriate action for a variance to 17 postpone construction improvements to Chisolm Trail and 18 portions of Sedalia Trail in Live Springs Ranch until such 19 time as the average daily traffic count on such roadway 20 exceeds 800 vehicles per day, and establish appropriate 21 conditions for such variance. Now we're to the action item, 22 I think. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All right. I would like to 24 -- to move in favor of the agenda item, with one addition, 25 and that is that the traffic counts will be done on an annual 5-27-08 62 1 basis and turned into Road and Bridge, so that we don't 2 forget to make that -- that -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who does it? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say the develop -- 5 the homeowners' association will do it, or -- and/or the 6 developer. That's my motion. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second as 10 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard? Does that -- are you 12 happy with that? 13 MR. ODOM: I'd be happy with that, to have some 14 accountability. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have 16 somebody count the cars on an annual basis and turn it in to 17 Leonard? My only hangup with that is -- I mean, I kind of 18 like the idea, but my only hangup with it is, I'd like to 19 specifically know who's going to count those cars, and I'd 20 like to know when they're going to turn those numbers in. 21 I'd like for them to -- a specific time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these county roads? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 24 MR. VOELKEL: They're private roads. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 5-27-08 63 1 MR. VOELKEL: And also private in Gillespie County 2 also. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? 4 MR. VOELKEL: Private roads in Gillespie County as 5 well. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, good. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we do to answer that 8 question a little bit, couldn't we -- at the end of Henderson 9 Branch, couldn't we put the -- I mean, I'd rather have 10 Leonard do it, even though it's more work for him than -- I 11 mean, to keep track of it. I don't know how much work it is 12 to do traffic counts. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could put it at the 14 entrance going into there and get it off the main road. It 15 wouldn't be fair to count all the cars going into the other 16 place down there. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure it would. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not -- 19 MR. VOELKEL: We're not upgrading their roads. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand this new 21 ministry, they're going to have lots of cars. To Lazy Hills, 22 there's going to be lots of traffic in and out of there. Is 23 that what you're talking about? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I was talking about past 25 Lazy Hills, at the entrance to the subdivision. 5-27-08 64 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I really like the 2 idea of Leonard doing it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do too. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'll amend the motion 5 to state that the traffic count will be done by the County at 6 the entrance of the -- Henderson Branch on an annual basis. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll third that motion. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Live Springs. 11 MR. VOELKEL: Live Springs. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Live Springs. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- I think -- I mean, 15 going back a little bit, I don't see any reason to start 16 doing those until there's some development out there. I 17 mean -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I mean, I would 20 rather leave it at the discretion of Road and Bridge to do 21 the traffic counts when they want to do it, so we don't go 22 out and do unnecessary work that doesn't really serve a 23 purpose. Leonard's going to have a pretty good idea what the 24 traffic's doing on that road. They can do that, and I think 25 it also should say that within 24 months of being notified by 5-27-08 65 1 Kerr County, the road shall be upgraded, or something -- or 2 some period. I think it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You want to back up and redo 4 this whole thing? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it's -- you know, 6 I think traffic counts, that was added in whenever -- after 7 we finished talking. That was a good idea. We also ought to 8 add when they have to upgrade. They "shall" means they have 9 to, or we can take some action to force them. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is going to be another 11 one of those long-winded motions, I can tell. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're good at it. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I move that we -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to restate your motion? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I want to restate my motion. 16 I move that we grant a variance from road specifications to 17 widen the road at this point, based on the revised plat, and 18 that a traffic count be done by Kerr County at the entrance 19 of the subdivision annually, whenever they deem necessary, 20 and that within two years of the traffic count reaching 800, 21 the road will be upgraded. Is that close? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty good. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perfect. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and 5-27-08 66 1 second as indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we go ahead and 10 take about a 15-minute recess now, and we'll come back and 11 finish up. 12 (Recess taken from 10:27 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 15 we might. We were in mid-morning recess. We'll take up Item 16 16; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 17 negotiations with the City of Kerrville on the airport and/or 18 other matters concerning airport and other joint projects. 19 Which one you of you guys wants to launch this balloon? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Commissioner Letz 21 will launch it and I'll fill in. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we -- the committee met, 23 Councilmen Gross and Hamilton, Commissioner Williams and 24 myself, last week, and I think we have a tentative agreement 25 verbally between the four of us. We haven't been to Council 5-27-08 67 1 or Commissioners Court over the Airport Board yet, but the -- 2 the basic agreement is -- is that the Airport Manager will 3 report to the Airport Board. That's a new part that we 4 talked about last time, and the other new part is that during 5 the next five years, the County will take over 100 percent 6 funding for operations at the airport, and with the idea 7 being that it will be 50/50 the first year, then 60/40, 8 70/30, down to the point five years from now when the County 9 will be 100 percent responsible for the funding. Which we 10 had that on the table once before; City Council was the one 11 that pulled that back, so I'm not sure where it'll go this 12 time, what's changed there, but that's kind of where we are. 13 I think everything else -- and I think -- Commissioner 14 Williams, I believe, met with the County Attorney and has 15 asked him to meet with the City Attorney and write a contract 16 or interlocal agreement that will memorialize all this. 17 It'll be, I think, a lot more detailed contract or agreement 18 than last time, having got all the information specifically 19 in that agreement from Chapter 22 and/or the Airport 20 Authority legislation, HB 961. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Essentially, it will be 22 operated under Chapter 22 of the Transportation Code and the 23 interlocal agreement. I believe the Transportation Code 24 requires that the resolution between the two of us contain 25 the body of what we're talking about in the resolution, so 5-27-08 68 1 the interlocal agreement would contain all of the things that 2 we believe are appropriate for governance to be included in 3 that. And I did provide the County Attorney with a copy, and 4 then talked with him subsequently about that, because there 5 are some things that were contained in Councilman Hamilton's 6 synopsis of the first meeting which we had agreed to; i.e., 7 how the board is chosen, how the board repopulates itself, 8 what happens in the event of the funding -- when the budget 9 has been presented to the City and/or the County, if either 10 of the two entities have a problem with -- with the amount of 11 subsidy that would be provided under that budget, there is a 12 right of refusing to do so, and the funding reverts back to 13 the previous year. So, all of those things that were 14 contained in that memorandum, plus what we agreed to in the 15 second meeting, or in front of the County Attorney, and I 16 assume in front of the City Attorney as well, for those two 17 gentlemen to figure out what an interlocal agreement looks 18 like. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing I really thought 20 about after the meeting, and about the County -- the shifting 21 the funding over time, my feeling is that should cover kind 22 of O & M type items, not capital improvement items. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that was the 24 intent, Commissioner. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it is too. I just 5-27-08 69 1 wanted the County Attorney to be aware, because the City's 2 still going to maintain 50 percent ownership, and I think 3 they should be responsible as owners of -- of paying their 4 part of -- 50 percent of capital improvements. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You may recall that in the 6 first meeting, we did -- the notations that came out of the 7 first meeting indicated that -- that the Airport Board be 8 required to submit, in effect, two budgets, an O & M and a 9 capital improvement budget, and -- and to arrive at the 10 capital improvement budget, they have to do much the same as 11 what we've done in the past, and that's identify all the 12 projects and prioritize them, and prioritize them in terms of 13 budget years. Some of the items -- as I recall, last time I 14 had anything to do with it, some of the items slipped to 15 maybe four or five years out, and some of them were more 16 important and they were included in the first or second year, 17 and we would anticipate that that would be the same 18 procedure, and the CIB comes in a separate package from the 19 O & M, and that should be contained in there as well. That's 20 my recollection. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's kind of where we 22 are, and it's just to kind of update the Court. And once 23 those agreements are -- the City Attorney and County Attorney 24 have ironed out an agreement that they're comfortable with 25 that memorializes that, the process shall be disseminated to 5-27-08 70 1 the Airport Board for comments. Not necessarily -- they 2 don't have a veto, per se, but just to get their input. And 3 let us -- the four of us then look at it again. Then it will 4 go to City Council and Commissioners Court for approval. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other items of joint 6 interest between the City and the County, we have pretty well 7 resolved Animal Control, as we had talked to you about that, 8 talked to the Court about -- that we will take -- assume the 9 responsibility for Animal Control within the city limits of 10 city of Kerrville. The library funding, we had set a 11 number -- was that four? I believe it was four. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said we can't talk about 13 this. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't talk about that? Why 15 not? Joint projects. 16 MR. EMERSON: It says, "and other matters 17 concerning airport projects." 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was misstated; it's 19 supposed to be joint projects. (Laughter.) And that was 20 corrected by the Judge when he called the item. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Shhh. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See, if you'd have been 23 here on time, you'd have heard that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me see if I'm up to 25 speed. What you've reported are essentially the second phase 5-27-08 71 1 of -- of some negotiations to kind of encapsulate this thing. 2 Number one, that the population of the Airport Board would be 3 increased to five. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That the population of the board 6 would be done by what I call the KPUB model, where the board 7 itself proposes nominees, and it's up to a maximum of a 8 three-step process, where the board members two times can be 9 nonselected, and then the third time there's no -- there's no 10 nonselection available. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my understanding. 12 Yours, Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, that's correct. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And the current board would remain 16 in place for the purpose of accomplishing that task. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they would be asked to 18 resign, but they can be reappointed. But they will -- they 19 will come up with the names. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come up with the names. 21 First submit their resignation, and indicate when they submit 22 the names of their willingness to continue to serve if 23 appointed. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, come up with a slate of 25 five people, which may include themselves; hopefully will 5-27-08 72 1 include themselves. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But under the constitutional 3 provision, that they would serve until their successors are 4 qualified. If -- if the -- if the slate of five is not 5 approved, they would retain the authority to submit a new 6 slate. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And if necessary, the third slate 10 under the KPUB model, so that the -- the selection would be 11 done by the board itself, the current board. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Airport Manager would then 15 be employed by and report to the board. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And the -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And any other personnel 19 needed to -- to operate his office. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. Any of the -- any of the 21 operations functions, including the personnel to accomplish 22 those functions, under Chapter 22 of the Transportation Code, 23 would be spelled out. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Transportation Code and 25 excerpts from 956. There are a lot of provisions of 956 5-27-08 73 1 which we're sliding over, but we're operating under Chapter 2 22. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These provisions. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And the -- the more recent addition 6 to that is the phase-out of city funding on a -- on a -- 7 10 percent annually over a period of five years for O & M. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And that's pretty much it in 10 a nutshell? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who's going to handle the 13 disbursements and the payroll? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's up in the air still. 15 It's -- it could -- you know -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can either do it 17 themselves by acquiring a small financial package -- 18 QuickBooks would manage the airport, if we were to get down 19 to it -- or they can do it through interlocal agreement. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the Airport Manager's 22 salary and benefits -- not salary -- yeah, all of that tied 23 up can be through interlocal agreement with the County or the 24 City, if they -- whatever. But it will be interlocal between 25 the Airport Board and one of the two governing bodies. 5-27-08 74 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There are also financial 2 payroll companies that they can interlocal with that are, you 3 know, $30, $40 a month generally for small businesses. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sure that -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It might be somewhat of a 7 disadvantage for the -- whoever that Airport Manager is to be 8 able to get benefits, retirement and insurance and stuff like 9 that, when it would just be basically a single employee. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can interlocal with the 11 City or the County for those -- for the benefits. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it would be 13 advantageous to do one or the other. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, I'm just saying, 15 even the paperwork of writing the checks can be contracted 16 out. Doesn't have to be -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm talking 18 about. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The person would either be -- 20 it'd make more sense for there to be an interlocal from a 21 benefit standpoint. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But the benefit package alone can be 23 by separate contract. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We already checked with 5-27-08 75 1 H.R.; we can do it by interlocal with the County, and that 2 package could be identified, structured, and presented to the 3 Airport Manager. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that covers it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good -- in my 8 mind, a good recommendation to go forward with. It's -- it 9 pretty much creates a truly completely independent airport. 10 Still has the financial resources of the City and the County 11 to do things, but it's -- the Airport Board will be set up to 12 be able to make all decisions related to the airport, 13 including zoning. We talked about at the last meeting, they 14 need that zoning, which is now under the City of Kerrville's 15 P & Z, will be pulled out and come under the Airport Board, 16 unless they choose to interlocal back with -- I mean, the 17 Airport Board can choose to interlocal back with the City or 18 County on a lot of these services, you know, and probably 19 will. It will be their decision on all matters, though, and 20 I think it's kind of the best of all worlds. It gets us 21 independent, quote, authority, and leaves the financial 22 situation, the strength of the City and County behind the 23 airport. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eminent domain is reserved 25 back to the City and/or the County under state statute. They 5-27-08 76 1 can't exercise that on their own, but if they see a need, 2 they will come back and talk to the City and/or the County, 3 whoever's appropriate. Judge, this calls for appropriate 4 action. I'm not sure we want to do any action on this today. 5 It's really just a report. When we get the interlocal 6 agreement draft, we'll bring it back to the Court at that 7 point. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's something that's being worked 9 on by the County Attorney and the City Attorney now? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other -- anything else to 12 be offered by any member of the Court with regard to that 13 item? If not, we'll go to a timed item at 11 o'clock, Item 14 15, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 15 accept a gift of artwork from the Kerr County Historical 16 Commission. Commissioner Baldwin? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Thank you very 18 much. This is an exciting, exciting moment for us all. My 19 good friend Joe Luther is the president of the Kerr County 20 Historical Commission. I think -- president? 21 MR. LUTHER: Um -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that your title? 23 MR. LUTHER: Yes. That -- no, I like Chairman. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Chairman. 25 MR. LUTHER: Thank you. 5-27-08 77 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grand Poopah. Joe, if you'd 2 come forward and make your presentation. I -- 3 MR. LUTHER: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- appreciate you being 5 here, and thank you for your service. 6 MR. LUTHER: Thank you very much, Commissioner 7 Baldwin, Judge, members of the Commission. Good morning. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 9 MR. LUTHER: I am the Chairman. I don't know what 10 I was thinking of. I'm thinking about presidential 11 elections; I'm sure that's it. As you know, we recently 12 concluded an extended exhibition over at the Kerr Arts and 13 Cultural Center about the indigenous people of Kerr County. 14 When I was a boy growing up here, and as a boy scout, I was 15 in love with Indian lore, and, of course, odds are you'd find 16 me running around in the hills with bows and loincloths and 17 things that today would probably get you arrested. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to say, we -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't need to see that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've stopped that, haven't 21 you? 22 MR. LUTHER: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not a real good 24 picture. 25 MR. LUTHER: Well, but I was always fascinated by 5-27-08 78 1 the native American history of this area. And when I was 2 appointed by you gentlemen to the county Historical 3 Commission, I was amazed that the history that we had began 4 in 1858, as if humanity sprang out of the ground here with 5 the arrival of the Schreiner family and others. But, in 6 fact, humankind was here for some 10,000 years, and there are 7 archeological sites up on the Divide that are burial sites 8 that have been dated back 10,000 years. We need to realize 9 also that as part of our history, that this area where we are 10 right now was Spain for some 300 years, so the United States 11 of America is a fairly recent addition. 12 As part of our efforts to help in the education of 13 people about their heritage and history, we did this 14 exhibition on indigenous people, and one of the finest pieces 15 of work that we found was this piece of work by George 16 Nelson, who is from Tarpley, and he's a very accomplished 17 artist and has done a wonderful series on the Alamo and other 18 things. But this particular poster that we have framed back 19 here that -- in the back of the room, displays the Lipon 20 Apache as they would have appeared here between 1720 and -- 21 and 1880, so they were here quite a while. There is a 22 documented site down by Camp Verde, just across on the other 23 side of Verde Creek where the buffalo roam, that was, in 24 fact, an Apache -- series of Apache villages for over 100 25 years, and is recorded on old Spanish maps. These people 5-27-08 79 1 were not nearly as disagreeable as the Comanches, and, in 2 fact, worked as scouts and worked with the Texas Rangers and 3 others. So, I have talked with Commissioner Baldwin and Tim 4 and Commissioner Williams about the Historical Commission 5 giving this to the people of Kerr County, and we've selected 6 a spot out here in the hallway to hang this, and I believe 7 Tim approved it. And -- 8 MS. BOLIN: Whoa. 9 MR. LUTHER: Was that a "no"? 10 MS. PIEPER: A "whoa." 11 MR. LUTHER: So, with your kind permission, the 12 Kerr County Historical Commission, herewith and forthwith, 13 presents to you folks this wonderful image produced by George 14 Nelson. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we get that thing up 18 here? Do you want to get a photograph of it? 19 MR. LUTHER: Yes, if you don't mind. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Put on your loincloth first, Buster. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 MR. LUTHER: I would also like at this time to 23 introduce to you Sue Dyke, who is the vice chairperson of the 24 Commission. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 5-27-08 80 1 MR. LUTHER: I need to come in there? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 4 MR. LUTHER: Hallowed ground here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The throne. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Set it right here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Come on, Sue. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll all peer over the 9 top. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: There you go. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Crowd in. Crowd in up front, 12 Judge. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 MR. LUTHER: Most of those Pedernales arrowheads 15 you find out here actually are spear points. 16 MS. VAN WINKLE: Okay, Joe? (Took photo.) One 17 more. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Is the camera cracked? 19 MS. VAN WINKLE: Not yet. 20 MR. LUTHER: Well, thank God. I don't have to hold 21 my stomach in. (Laughter.) 22 MS. VAN WINKLE: We got some good smiles on that 23 one. Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Suck it in. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Joe. 5-27-08 81 1 (Applause.) 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all so much. 3 MR. LUTHER: You bet. It's a real pleasure, and 4 thank you for doing this. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Beautiful. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to thank the 7 Historical Commission for going back into some of those older 8 periods, looking at the indigenous peoples. It is a lot of 9 the history. A lot of us are aware of it, finding the -- or 10 various artifacts, and I think it's a lot more -- I'm just 11 glad to see them focusing on that instead of some of the 12 other history, starting in -- 13 MR. LUTHER: May I just say, we're right on the 14 verge of a very exciting partnership with Schreiner 15 University and their digital library collection, and a safe 16 place to archive our artifacts and things, and I'll be coming 17 back to you about that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might look at, at some 19 point, after you've been over to the Peterson Foundation 20 offices. They have a remarkable arrowhead, for lack of 21 another word, collection that was left to them under the 22 estate of one of my -- my grandmother's first cousin, Bruda 23 Ingenhuett, and they -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the name? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruda. 5-27-08 82 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruda. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruda and Emma Ingenhuett. 3 And, it's -- and it came off their Turkey Knob Ranch, which 4 is actually right in Kendall County, right across the county 5 line, but it is an absolutely phenomenal collection. They 6 have it on display there. 7 MR. LUTHER: I might also say, just one other 8 exciting piece of business. We've pinpointed the exact 9 location of Camp Ives, which was a subpost of Camp Verde, and 10 we're going to move to get a marker for that. And in the 11 course of that search, we also discovered that there was 12 another army outpost in Bandera Pass called Camp Devant, 13 which we are working on getting the details on that. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is any work being done at all 15 to do anything with the Apache encampment you talked about, 16 where the buffalo roam currently at Camp Verde? 17 MR. LUTHER: Yes, there is, but it's sort of a 18 plodding process. I refer to that area as the Camp Verde 19 complex, because there's just so much there. There's the 20 frontier battalion stuff that was there, the Texas Rangers 21 stuff, the Camp Verde stuff, the old store. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Prison Canyon. 23 MR. LUTHER: Prison Canyon is certainly a big one. 24 Some people want historical markers, and others don't want 25 them anywhere near. And so what we're looking at is getting 5-27-08 83 1 some National Register markers for some of this, and having 2 it in that little park across from the store. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I suspect that the people that 4 own most of that property, or a large part of that property 5 now will be very willing to work with you. 6 MR. LUTHER: Well, okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They will be. 8 MR. LUTHER: Yeah. I was down at the store this 9 weekend and discovered that the store's now owned by a 10 corporation out of San Antonio. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but that corporation will 12 be glad to work with you, I'm pretty sure. 13 MR. LUTHER: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you were talking about 15 the buffalo roam. I just wanted to let you know that the 16 deer and antelope play at 2 o'clock this afternoon. 17 (Laughter.) 18 MR. LUTHER: I missed that on the agenda. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's confidential 21 information. 22 MR. LUTHER: Well, as is always the case with this 23 Commission, seldom is heard a discouraging word. Thank you, 24 gentlemen. (Applause.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tivy fight never dies. 5-27-08 84 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll be there with your loincloth 2 on, I presume? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One feather in your ear. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go back to Item 16. I think 6 there was some additional matters to be reported there under 7 that item? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I was looking at this 9 one when the Judge read it. It said "other matters," and I 10 know I added "other matters" for a reason, and then it dawned 11 on me after we passed that. The other matters were two, and 12 it's kind of to get the Court -- just advise the Court. One, 13 there's a lot of dirt that several years ago was piled up 14 along the bottom of the fencing around the airport, and the 15 current Airport Board desires to remove that dirt, 'cause 16 it's destroying the fence. And Commissioner Williams and I 17 talked with the interim Airport Manager, Mr. McKenzie, and 18 said we would do what we could to get trustees as available, 19 and/or community service out there to do that work over the 20 next year or so. There's nothing in a rush. So, we just 21 thought that we would get that -- let the Sheriff be aware of 22 that, that there's a project that at least two of the 23 Commissioners, and I think the whole Court thinks is a very 24 worthwhile project that will save the taxpayers money. 25 'Cause if it's not done by community service, it's going to 5-27-08 85 1 be done by paid employees. And this will be a big savings to 2 the county, and it can be worked into schedules as it can be. 3 The other item is the -- there is a -- the Airport Loop Road, 4 which is -- I guess it's part county road till it gets to -- 5 I guess it's all city road now. Anyway, the -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the second entrance. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To the second entrance inside 8 the city, that road's in a very bad state of disrepair. 9 Charlie Hastings and his people in the City have been working 10 with Len Odom and our people at the County, and they have 11 come to a joint solution where the County will do the actual 12 work for the rehabilitation of their sealcoating, and the 13 City will provide all of the materials. And Len's going to 14 be doing this out of his current budget. And time is -- 15 there's really no dollars for him; it's just a matter of 16 scheduling his personnel to do the work, and the City will be 17 expending the funds. This is not included as a capital item 18 for the airport for this year, though it has been discussed 19 by the Airport Board several times as it needed to be done. 20 And it's just a good opportunity, I think, for us to work 21 with the City and get something accomplished and save the 22 taxpayers money. So, I just wanted to get those on the 23 table, that we're -- those are in the works. I don't think 24 we need any action on them; I think those -- all parties 25 involved have authority to do it. 5-27-08 86 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. The reality is that 2 Leonard has a major crew out on Johnson Drive right now, and 3 Shady Grove, so it's just a matter of moving over and taking 4 care of this. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, anyway, I just 6 wanted to get those two items on the record. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's a very, very 8 good first start to get some things going between the City 9 and the County on some of the roadwork. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This could be the very first 12 one of those. It would -- hopefully, there will be more. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of a little pilot 14 project, right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This has got less than 17 1,000 yards of road, I think. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, not a lot. Okay, that 19 was it. That's the only two items. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Great way to ease into trying to set 21 up a process by which there can be that cooperative effort on 22 -- 'cause the City has a need for a lot of street 23 improvements, and I think we've got the equipment and the 24 personnel and the know-how that can assist them there, and I 25 think it creates some efficiency for the ultimate payer of 5-27-08 87 1 the bill, and that's our taxpayers. Let's go to Item 17, if 2 we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 3 review the services of GovDeals, Inc. That organization 4 provides a means for sellers to list items for sale and for 5 potential buyers to bid upon these items via an 6 internet-based auction system. Ms. Hargis? 7 MS. HARGIS: We had a meeting with the 8 representative of GovDeals, with Commissioner Oehler, 9 Commissioner Baldwin, the Sheriff, John Trolinger, and myself 10 on Thursday to discuss this possibility of using these 11 auction services. I would like actually to defer to 12 Commissioner Oehler and Mr. -- or Commissioner Baldwin as to 13 their thoughts on -- on whether they are interested, or what 14 they'd like to do about this. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my comment is that I 16 don't know how much we use a service like this, but I know 17 that we've used it some. And this particular company that 18 I'm -- that I'm fairly familiar with, I've met some of the 19 players and visited with them in the last couple of years, 20 and they appear to be the cutting edge of this type of 21 business. They appear to be probably the largest company in 22 the country that does this kind of work, and -- but bottom 23 line, it's not going to give me heartburn to go either way, 24 but it -- you know, if we feel like that we need to contract 25 with some company to take care of these kinds of issues, this 5-27-08 88 1 company is a good company to do it. I firmly believe that. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the only thing I would 3 say about it is, it seems to me like they don't do much for 4 what they get paid. I mean, they do have a wide circulation, 5 and they have a wide range of people that use or actually get 6 on that -- in the -- within their web site to do the bidding. 7 They probably have more contacts than anybody else. But they 8 charge 7 and a half percent, and we do all the work. We post 9 it, we collect the money, we send them the money. And, 10 really, we're just utilizing their web site, is basically it. 11 And that may be within the realm of reality of what we should 12 do. I don't know. I know that last year, Tommy put a lot of 13 stuff on eBay, and we were very successful in that, and eBay 14 is a lot cheaper than this. We basically have to do the same 15 thing. We're going to do all the work to do it on eBay. I 16 just don't know. I mean, yes, I'm sure this gets more hits, 17 and we might get more money out of it, but I don't know if 18 it's worth it to try or not. We get on it -- we can get off 19 of it any time; we don't have to -- there's no -- there's no 20 money involved if you sign up, to my knowledge. It's just -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not hooked into a 22 time frame? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we can cancel at any 24 time. And the only time you pay is whenever you sell 25 something that you listed on their web site. 5-27-08 89 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. There's a lot of 2 people that look at it. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the advantage. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many hits did he say he 5 had? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Millions. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Millions. Millions. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, one of the 9 problems I hear about eBay -- I've never bought anything 10 through eBay, but eBay's gotten so big, it's so -- it's 11 cumbersome to use. I mean, there's just -- you can't find 12 anything, 'cause there's just so much there. And if this is 13 able to focus things better, you know, to me it may be 14 worthwhile trying it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this is only for 16 government; they don't let anybody else sell on it. It's 17 just for government, surplus equipment. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you're not going to get the 19 knick-knack type stuff. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. You may find a lot of 21 stuff that's completely worn out, which is generally what 22 happens whenever you put it up for sale. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's government. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I'm not really in 25 opposition to it. I just -- you know, just wanted to point 5-27-08 90 1 that out, that their percentage is fairly high. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is, but I guess you're 3 paying for their -- their widespread operation. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. Well, if you -- if 5 you got 50 percent more for it than you would have gotten the 6 other way, then it's a good deal. Or if you get more than 7 the 7 and a half percent. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get 7 and a half percent or 9 8 percent more. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, I'm not in opposition to 11 it. I just wanted to point that out. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Has the County Attorney reviewed 13 this agreement? 14 MR. EMERSON: I have, Judge. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And? 16 MR. EMERSON: There's not any real liability in 17 there for the County. The positive thing is that it's a 18 nonexclusive agreement, so we could sign contracts with 19 multiple agencies, and as long as we don't post 20 simultaneously on different web sites, we don't have any 21 conflicts. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we can get out, what, 23 in 30 days notice? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sixty. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sixty days notice. 5-27-08 91 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- I mean, I don't see a 2 reason not to do it and try it. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't know till we try. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I'll make a motion that we 5 enter into an agreement with GovDeals, an internet-based 6 auction service, for -- or system for disposing of items 7 declared surplus by the County. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 11 MS. HARGIS: There is one thing. We'll have to 12 have two contracts, one for the County as a whole and then 13 one for the seized property. And that's fairly common, 14 because -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What property? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seized. 17 MS. HARGIS: Seized property. So, we'll have two. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My motion reflects that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Further question or 20 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 18; 5-27-08 92 1 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on medical 2 insurance lab claims against our policy. That is noted as an 3 executive session item, but I'm having some difficulty -- 4 MS. HYDE: It's supposed to be maybe. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It's more a generic type service. 6 MS. HYDE: Supposed to be maybe. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Supposed to be maybe? 8 MS. HYDE: It depends on what kind of questions the 9 Court asks. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, let's do what we can in 11 open, okay? 12 (Commissioner Baldwin held up an envelope.) 13 MS. HYDE: Okay. I haven't even got up there yet. 14 Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is real simple. 16 What the hell is this? 17 MS. HYDE: I don't know; I haven't seen it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a bill I received. Is 19 that one of them? 20 MS. HYDE: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now you understand it? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now I understand it. 24 That's -- it's all clear; I got to go pay it. 25 MS. HYDE: Okay. The ones I gave you, there should 5-27-08 93 1 be some extras. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There will be. 3 MS. HYDE: So that Cheryl can have one. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I got one. 5 MS. HYDE: And then the second one, this is one 6 that everybody reviewed during open enrollment. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're all together, 8 right? 9 MS. HYDE: No, there's two separate so that y'all 10 can do them side by side, 'cause I know y'all like looking 11 side by side. Cheryl, did you get one of these? 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MS. HYDE: Here's an original, Rex. I'll give you 14 this one as soon as I get done. The original bottom line, if 15 you go on the original that was reviewed with everyone, I 16 circled them so everyone could see them, and what it said was 17 laboratory services as a result of the office visit, 18 excluding high-end radiology, 100 percent deductible was 19 waived. And if you go to Page 2, it says independent 20 freestanding clinic. The reason why is because here in Kerr 21 County, everybody was freestanding clinics unless you went to 22 a hospital, but that's changed. During the first of the 23 year, that's changed, so most of our freestanding clinics now 24 belong to hospitals, which means the rates are more, which 25 means it's costing us much more. And so the suggestion is, 5-27-08 94 1 because this is what it says, that's why there's a proposed, 2 to allow the employees that have already used the 3 non-freestanding clinics to be reimbursed for this, because 4 they did exactly what was said on this form. And then we 5 make it effective June 1st, that we send out information to 6 everyone, we get everyone's -- you know, making sure 7 everyone's read it and understands that after June 1st, if 8 you go to someplace that is not a freestanding clinic, you 9 will pay your deductible, and for most people, that's the 10 problem. They had not paid their deductible, and they needed 11 to have annual physicals so that they could work. So, their 12 physicals and lab work came back and it was three and four 13 times what it had been in the past, so it's really hurt a lot 14 of employees. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you said there's -- I 16 thought you said there were no freestanding clinics. 17 MS. HYDE: There's very few. In fact, there's 18 three. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's a freestanding clinic? 20 MS. HYDE: It means they are not -- they were not 21 billing as a hospital; they're billing as a freestanding 22 clinic. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you give me the names of 24 the three so I know what we're talking about? 25 (Ms. Hyde handed a document to Commissioner Letz.) 5-27-08 95 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, Clinical Pathology Labs are 3 not freestanding clinics? 4 MS. HYDE: No, these are. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They are freestanding? 6 MS. HYDE: They are freestanding clinics. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're the only ones? 8 MS. HYDE: That we know of, yes. The other closest 9 one is in Boerne, and so it's out of the county. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the good thing is that 11 we do still have some that can be used by the employees. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- the employees need 13 to go to -- I mean, to get -- financially, it's better off 14 for them to go to this one -- to this clinic than anywhere 15 else. 16 MS. HYDE: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they -- it's up to -- 18 that's an employee choice issue as to where they get lab work 19 done. 20 MS. HYDE: To be fair to the employees, this is 21 what was reviewed to them, and this is what we said, because 22 we based it on the fact that we had so many freestanding 23 clinics. Well, now that they've been pulled in, this isn't 24 the case. So, really, Page 2, where it says independent 25 freestanding diagnostic X-ray and lab facility services, that 5-27-08 96 1 -- that is it. Now, it's 90 percent deductible waived. On 2 the front page, if you went to the doctor and the doctor 3 said, "Okay, you need to go have blood work done," you went 4 to the lab to have your blood work done, we'll pay 100 5 percent; deductible was waived. But because now we have so 6 many that are billing underneath a hospital bill, we can't 7 waive the deductible. It comes under a totally separate 8 charge and different type of charge, and so people are 9 getting $400 and $500 bills from pathology. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And what you're suggesting that the 11 Court needs to do is to take appropriate action to permit 12 those folks who, up through -- 13 MS. HYDE: No fault of their own. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- May 31 of this year, -- 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- relied upon the schedule of 17 benefits that the deductible would be waived for any 18 laboratory services as a result of a doctor's office visit, 19 excluding the high-end radiological, would be reimbursed for 20 the deductible that they did have to pay? 21 MS. HYDE: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And that, effective June 1, we amend 23 our schedule of benefits to provide that that deductible 24 would be waived only in those cases when using a preferred 25 provider, being the Clinical Pathology lab provider? 5-27-08 97 1 MS. HYDE: Right, exactly. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That poses a question. 3 Suppose your doctor wants you to have some of these 4 particular tests, and says they want you to go to the 5 Ambulatory Care Center of the Peterson Regional Medical 6 center for those services. 7 MS. HYDE: If that's the case, then you'll file in 8 your normal deductible -- normal deductibles. If they bill 9 under a hospital billing, then you'll have to pay your 10 deductible. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or as opposed to going to 12 CPL. 13 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the deductible is 15 waived. 16 MS. HYDE: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm probably going to have 19 an argument with my doctor about that. 20 MS. HYDE: Well, what we've done is we've talked to 21 several of the doctors in the area as well. Last month, when 22 our insurance folks came in, we did a search and recon of the 23 area for anybody that -- that was laboratories, and we went 24 and visited with them, including those that had just turned 25 over underneath a hospital billing. And when we talked with 5-27-08 98 1 the doctors -- we talked to 15 doctors in the area. They 2 ranged anywhere from gastroenterologist or whatever you call 3 it -- the stomach, cancer, normal GP's, children's, the whole 4 nine yards. We got a little bit of everybody. And because 5 they already have a lot of those paperwork that they fill out 6 and say, "Here," you know, "go get your lab work," but CPL 7 will accept those -- those lab forms and will utilize those 8 lab forms. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about lab services 10 that are performed in the doctor's office? 11 MS. HYDE: Well, those will still file underneath 12 the office visit. So, that's why we've got this. If you 13 guys approve it, this will be a -- a stock -- not a stocking 14 stuffer, a check stuffer, and we'll review it, make sure 15 everybody gets an e-mail as well. I know that the S.O. will 16 help in making sure that that gets out to his large group. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it say on here -- the 18 hospital portion, is it on this sheet? Like, if you go to a 19 hospital, where is their line? 20 MS. HYDE: If you go to -- if you -- are you 21 looking on the original, or are you looking -- is it the 22 original? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Where does it say what I 24 pay if I go to the hospital? I see at the bottom -- 25 MS. HYDE: Where it says hospital services. 5-27-08 99 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But is it -- is it ancillaries? 2 MS. HYDE: Well, what it says is on that second 3 page, where it talks about independent freestanding 4 diagnostic X-ray and lab facility services. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MS. HYDE: 90 percent deductible is waived, on 7 Page 2. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it goes under that one? 9 MS. HYDE: It will -- it'll go -- it'll go under -- 10 if you go to an independent freestanding diagnostic X-ray and 11 lab, 90 percent means the employee pays 10 percent and no 12 deductible. However, comma, if you go to a hospital, you're 13 going to pay your deductible first, and then it goes to 14 90/20. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- but -- 16 MS. HYDE: I mean 90/10. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, services -- the lab work 18 comes under the ancillary services under this. 19 MS. HYDE: Yeah. Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that would be -- if we 21 can add that on here, I think it would make it clearer to 22 people. Because if you look under hospital, you don't see 23 lab stuff. 24 MS. HYDE: No, because -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Add on here that if you go -- 5-27-08 100 1 if this is done through the hospital, it's going to be 90 2 percent after the deductible. Then that way, the -- it's on 3 here three times. I think it's easier for employees to see 4 what's going on. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Where it says miscellaneous 6 services, add "including laboratory work"? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, including laboratory 8 work. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Services, yeah. 10 MS. HYDE: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On this summary plan that's 12 included in this handout. 13 MS. HYDE: Right. If you notice, the new one -- 14 the new one is a little bit different. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The new one being the 16 separate one? 17 MS. HYDE: Yeah, the one that says "proposed." 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I got you. 19 MS. HYDE: And under -- under hospital, again, it 20 does not have anything in there about that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just add it on. This 22 is one of those. Don't worry about changing the old one; 23 just change the new one. 24 MS. HYDE: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That makes it clear. If I read 5-27-08 101 1 this, it -- I didn't see it listed under hospital services. 2 Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still don't see it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's not -- you don't see 5 it because it's not there. They're going to add it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Laboratory, under -- I guess 8 under miscellaneous services, supplies including -- that lab 9 stuff, laboratory services. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that right? 11 MS. HYDE: I didn't understand what you said. No 12 offense. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, under -- on the new one, 14 under hospital services, under the miscellaneous services and 15 supplies, we're going to add the -- under that, we're going 16 to add, "including laboratory services." 17 MS. HYDE: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause otherwise, it doesn't 19 show -- there's no lab work shown under the hospital 20 services. And that's where we're getting -- 21 MS. HYDE: We're just trying to make sure that -- I 22 mean, we're trying to keep it simple, but what we're finding 23 is that most people still don't understand their deductible, 24 and so that's -- that's what's kicking everyone, because this 25 year our deductible has to be paid first. And in the past, 5-27-08 102 1 there were a lot of things that were -- that were paid prior 2 to deductible. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if you go with CPL, it 4 still is paid prior to deductible? 5 MS. HYDE: Yes, that's right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think you need to make 7 it real clear, under hospital services, lab work is not 8 covered or is not paid that way. 9 MS. HYDE: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably ought to be 11 highlighted in red. 12 MS. HYDE: Hmm? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Highlighted in red. 14 MS. HYDE: Well, we highlighted this in yellow. 15 So, we're hoping between that and -- there's a lot of people 16 that have been impacted, so word of mouth is going to help us 17 with this as well. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question? 19 MR. EMERSON: I do, but it's going to rebound 20 directly onto Jeannie and Eva. If the County chooses to do 21 this, and say they reimburse Rusty $200 for a mistake in the 22 deductible, is that going to fall under compensation for 23 purposes of I.R.S. codes? 24 MS. HYDE: Hmm-mm. No, 'cause what it is, it's an 25 error in the insurance. 5-27-08 103 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, whose pocket is that 2 coming out of? The County? 3 MS. HYDE: Coming out of our insurance. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Out of ours. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause I do have -- not me. 6 I do have several employees that ended up with $500-plus 7 bills, okay? Because they had no idea it wasn't going to get 8 paid. And then their deductible's more than that, so they're 9 totally out over $500 all of a sudden that they wouldn't have 10 been last year. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see -- I saw a concern on the 12 County Attorney's face by your answer. I think we need to 13 make sure that it's not going to be counted as compensation, 14 to verify that, either through -- however you verify things, 15 what's compensation and not. 16 MS. HYDE: Are you saying yes behind me? 17 MR. EMERSON: I'm just thinking -- I think it needs 18 to be verified before we do it. 19 MS. HYDE: Well, we've done it in the past, so I 20 can show you how we did it and why. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: And I'm not saying our office. It's 23 been done for a long time. 24 MR. EMERSON: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's required of us 5-27-08 104 1 today? 2 MS. HYDE: To say okey-dokey to what he said. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we probably need to do 4 a court order, since we're changing somebody -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge basically had a 6 motion. He was thinking out loud, but it was really a pretty 7 good motion. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Think he can repeat it? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He asked me, do I think that 12 you can repeat it, and I say no, I don't think you can. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I can come close. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'll second it if it 15 comes out real close. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What I said was what you're seeking 17 today from the Court is an action to permit reimbursement by 18 employees who were charged a deductible for laboratory 19 services as a result of office visits up through May 31 of 20 this year, and commencing June 1 of this year, that our 21 schedule of benefits be changed to provide that the waiver of 22 deductible only apply to laboratory services as a result of 23 the office visit when it is done using a preferred provider, 24 that being Clinical Pathology Labs, being the only local one. 25 MS. HYDE: And maybe that's where you and I are 5-27-08 105 1 looking at it differently. You're hearing reimbursement, and 2 what we're saying is that -- not reimbursement to the 3 employee, but reimbursement that the deductible is paid. And 4 that way, the reimbursement does not come from Kerr County; 5 the reimbursement would come from wherever they had -- 6 wherever they paid. For example, if I had to pay a 7 hospital -- if I had to pay a hospital because it was my 8 deductible, and I had to pay $500, and come to find out there 9 was an insurance error and I did not have to pay that 10 deductible, the insurance would then pay that hospital, and 11 the hospital has to reimburse the employee. 12 MR. EMERSON: If there's an insurance error. 13 MS. HYDE: Yeah, because this would be considered 14 an insurance error. 15 MR. EMERSON: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Who made the motion? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll make the motion. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You tried, Buster. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One of these days you're 22 going to make it. He's going to slip up and say, "I do." 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge says, "What are 24 y'all talking about?" 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 5-27-08 106 1 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. 7 MR. ODOM: The bids -- may I approach the Court? 8 On the bids, do you wish me to take a look at those? Can I 9 see if they meet and we award it today, if that's possible? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you hurry up. 11 MR. ODOM: I need -- does Cheryl have them? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If Cheryl doesn't, nobody 13 does. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Appears to me that -- that 19, 20, 15 and 21 are, in fact, executive session items. I am assuming 16 that to be the case, unless the County Attorney indicates to 17 the contrary right now. 19, 20, and 21, executive session 18 items dealing with individual employees? 19 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Section 4, 21 then, of the agenda. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got something on his bids. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Judge, I'm ready to make my 24 recommendations on the concrete work. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll go ahead and go 5-27-08 107 1 back to Item 4 -- revisit Agenda Item 4 concerning 4,400 2 square feet of concrete for the storage area out at the Youth 3 Exhibit Center area, Kerr County Fairgrounds. Mr. Bollier, 4 you have a recommendation? 5 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Out of the bids that I 6 received on the -- both concrete projects, I found that one 7 did not follow directions; therefore, it was -- I excluded it 8 from the bunch. And therefore, I recommend that Freed and 9 Barker get both projects -- concrete projects. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll do them one at a time. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The 4,400 square foot -- 13 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Freed and Barker. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Freed and Barker? 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dollars? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the amount of? 18 MR. BOLLIER: Oh, y'all didn't tell me I have to 19 write it down. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $15,793. Does that help 21 you? 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You're recommending the Court 24 approve that bid for the 4,400 square feet of concrete -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 5-27-08 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at the Youth Exhibit Center? 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of Freed -- award of the bid to Freed and Barker for 7 the 4,400 square feet of concrete at the Youth Exhibit Center 8 project for $15,793. Question or discussion on the motion? 9 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 10 hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 15 Item 5. Do you have a recommendation with regard to the 648 16 square feet of concrete sidewalk, being the removal of the 17 existing sidewalk and the replacement? 18 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. My recommendation is Freed 19 and Barker again. They -- even though they weren't quite the 20 lowest bid there -- I mean, the other one -- Freed and Barker 21 was $8,940, and the closest one to them was -- was -- well, 22 he was actually $90 less -- I think its $90 -- Tom Mall. But 23 I would recommend Freed and Barker. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And how much? 25 MR. BOLLIER: What I have here is $8,900 -- no -- 5-27-08 109 1 yeah, $8,940. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 5 award of the bid for the 648 square feet of concrete removal 6 and replacement at the courthouse for Freed and Barker for 7 $8,940. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the reason you choose to 9 do their bid over the other one? 10 MR. BOLLIER: Why? I -- if it would have been a 11 whole lot more, I would have thought about it a whole lot 12 harder, but I know what kind of work Freed and Barker does. 13 I do not know this Tom Mall. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the Freed and Barker bid higher 15 or lower? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $90 higher. 17 MR. BOLLIER: $90 higher. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, $90 higher than the Mall 19 bid. 20 MR. BOLLIER: No special reason. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we normally take the 22 low bidder if we're bidding the same thing. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney? The 24 recommendation is to go with a bid that's not the low bid, 25 based on the past performance of the contractor. Is that 5-27-08 110 1 okay? Can we do that? I mean, low bid is $90 lower than the 2 bid that's being recommended. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's based on knowing the 4 higher bid's performance, not knowing any performance on the 5 low bid. 6 MR. EMERSON: If you don't go with the low bid, the 7 statute calls basically for you to allow an opportunity for 8 the low bidder to come in and explain before you reject their 9 bid. That's what it says in 262. 10 MR. BOLLIER: I have no problem with that, that I 11 can go to Tom Mall. I have not a problem with that. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that would be the 13 wise thing to do. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a recommendation you go 15 to Tom Mall. If you're -- meet with him. If you're 16 uncomfortable with him -- 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then go with Freed and 19 Barker. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Tom Mall figure is how much? 22 MS. HARGIS: 8,850. 23 MR. BOLLIER: 8,850. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're recommending the bid be 25 awarded for removal and replacement of 648 square feet of 5-27-08 111 1 concrete here at the courthouse to Thomas Mall Concrete for 2 8,850? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, I am. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's the motion, and if 6 that -- if there's a reason that you're uncomfortable with 7 that bid, you don't think the person can do the work, the 8 secondary bid is Freed and Barker at $8,940. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a 10 second? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have a second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Question or discussion on the 13 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 14 right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Okay. 19 MR. BOLLIER: On the air-conditioners, Item 1.6, 20 Judge -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call that. 22 MR. BOLLIER: On that, I want to defer that until 23 next meeting, until next Commissioners Court, because there's 24 too much -- there's too much money difference in between some 25 of these bids, and I'm not quite sure exactly what they're 5-27-08 112 1 doing. I would like to just have extra time to -- till next 2 Commissioners Court. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: To review the specs and how they've 4 jockeyed around? 5 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 7 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Odom's, Judge. 9 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'll recall Item 9; consider, 11 discuss, take appropriate action to open and award bid for 12 C-7500 truck equipped with an aerial bucket and chip box. 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I didn't hear all the -- the 14 discussion that Tim had, but I have two bids, one for 69,9, 15 and then one for 65,000. The Ufleet had under 10,000 miles, 16 which we wanted. It had 8,200 miles. It was from Yuma, 17 Arizona, and we called, and it was a good -- it was just not 18 used that much. It was seven years, and they replaced it. 19 The one I got from Terex has over 31,000, and I just feel -- 20 my recommendation is based upon, if it's legal, that I would 21 pay more money. I -- what little we know about the Yuma 22 Ufleet, that it's a better -- I feel more comfortable with 23 it, with 82. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Your specs, in fact, provided for 25 10,000 miles or less, did it not? 5-27-08 113 1 MR. ODOM: Absolutely, they did. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That throws out the first bid, 3 then, so the only bid that's valid is the -- 4 MR. ODOM: Is the Ufleet? Yeah, the other one's 5 31,000, and it looks like it's been worn a little bit. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Ufleet is 69 -- how much? 7 MR. ODOM: 69,900. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's your recommendation? 9 MR. ODOM: That's my recommendation. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I support the recommendation of 11 the Road and Bridge Administrator to go with Ufleet. 12 MR. ODOM: Ufleet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At 69 -- 14 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 69,9? 16 MR. ODOM: 69,9. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to 19 award the C-7500 truck equipped with an aerial bucket and 20 chip box per the only buyer that -- only proposer that met 21 specs of 10,000 miles or less, that being Ufleet, for the 22 award of $69,900. Question or discussion on the motion? All 23 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-27-08 114 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 3 sir. 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Thank y'all. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's now go to Section 4 of the 6 agenda, payment of the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 10 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have some questions. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is just -- I'm sure 14 every question I have is just information more than anything, 15 just to kind of bring me up to speed on what this stuff 16 means. Commissioners Court, Page 3. Jody Grinstead, 17 reimbursement, food. Oh, county-to-county meeting. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. We provided the 19 food for -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We provided part of it, and I 21 think the Hill Country Alliance provided part of it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 7, Windstream 23 Communications, the third item there. Telephone, taxes, and 24 surcharge. What is -- why is that separated out? 25 MS. HARGIS: I can't answer that. 5-27-08 115 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can anybody? 2 MS. HARGIS: She probably does that because that's 3 not the phone itself, so that it shows on our -- on our GL 4 that she paid for it as a separate item. It's probably more 5 of an accounting -- but I'll have to check. I can't answer 6 that. I looked at it -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "She"? 8 MS. HARGIS: The accounts payable clerk probably 9 wanted to be able to identify that as a separate line item. 10 But other than that answer, I don't -- I don't have a good 11 answer. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That's an interesting 13 answer. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the next line, UTID 15 calls? What's that? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure hope we're not writing and 17 mailing separate checks for it. 18 MS. HARGIS: It all rolls up in one check. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Twenty-six cents. 20 Whatever. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 11. 22 MS. HARGIS: I will get the answer, though. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Page 11, 216th 24 District Court, Cindy Snider, court tran -- not sure what all 25 that is. Is this -- we're paying somebody -- we pay 5-27-08 116 1 Ms. Snider to do a job, and then we're paying somebody else 2 to do the same job? 3 MS. HARGIS: No, that's the case that she did the 4 transcript for. She -- Cindy gets paid extra for producing 5 transcripts. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what he wanted you to 8 say. 9 MS. HARGIS: Huh? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what he wanted you to 11 say, the last part. She's being paid extra for doing the job 12 she's being paid to do. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I thought you'd 14 say. And then -- 15 MS. HARGIS: I didn't sign the contract. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, is this Robert 17 Falkenberg and John Carlson, are those attorneys? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I know Carlson is. Falkenberg 19 apparently is. He's been appointed to -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Child Protective Services 21 cases. And that's in 198th District. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some lawyers working for 23 free on those, but we don't seem to get any of those here. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next page, 198th District 25 Court. Premiere Reporting, court transcripts. Do we pay 5-27-08 117 1 someone to do a job and then we pay somebody else to do the 2 same job? 3 MS. HARGIS: I can't answer that one. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Chicken. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Same answer. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The answer is yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It seems to be -- you know, 8 I've been asking that question for a number of years, and it 9 seems like I've been getting the same answer every time. 10 I -- you know, if you -- if you pay somebody to do a job and 11 then you pay somebody else to do the same job, I mean, how 12 stupid are we? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're paying the same person to 14 do the same job. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. 16 Page 38. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who -- you made the comment, 18 you don't sign the contract. Ms. Hargis, you said that a 19 second ago, I think somewhat in jest, but who does sign those 20 contracts that decides what these court reporters get paid? 21 Is it done by the District Judges? 22 MS. HARGIS: I would assume it would be. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: They approve the payment. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The payment. But, I mean -- 25 but there's obviously a contract that covers their services. 5-27-08 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There should be. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, and who signs that 3 contract? 'Cause I don't think judges have authority to sign 4 contracts for this disbursement of funds. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think I signed any. They -- 6 there's a daily rate that they agree to pay. There's a 7 half-day rate and a full-day rate that they normally pay. 8 And on a per-job basis for transcription, for example, that's 9 by the page. They get paid by the page for that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But is there -- is there such a 11 thing as a contract with -- or, you know, employee job 12 description? I mean, they get paid based on something. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know if there's a contract. 14 MS. HARGIS: I couldn't answer that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: It'd be interesting to find out, 16 'cause Commissioner Baldwin has asked the question for years, 17 and we always get the same answer. But the issue is, if 18 there is a contract for those services, the key would be to 19 change the contract. That way you wouldn't be paying them 20 twice. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's too simple. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's way too simple, Jon. 23 That's not going to happen. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The other possibility would be to 5-27-08 119 1 change the job description of the reporter. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz, a lot of times 3 these transcripts are on indigent cases. The defendant is 4 indigent, and they have -- they have to do the transcripts. 5 The County winds up having to foot the bill. And sometimes 6 the court reporter may be with the judge in another county; 7 you have a visiting judge who's sitting here. They have to 8 have a court reporter to take the -- the -- like Kathy does. 9 And then a lot of times, if there's a transcript needed out 10 of that, that's why you'll have somebody other than your 11 actual court reporter, who is an employee. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that helps. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Good explanation. Thank you, Mindy. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 38. 15 MS. HARGIS: Thank you, Mindy. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Durrin's Cleaners, uniforms. 18 Do we -- I mean, really, I don't know. Do -- does the 19 Environmental Health Department take their clothes down to 20 Durrin's Cleaners and have them pressed? Do you do that, 21 Rusty? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. The only time we -- the 23 County pays for any of our Durrin's Cleaner stuff is if I've 24 had an employee quit or -- or leave or whatever, and we get 25 some old uniforms back that are dirty. We may have them -- 5-27-08 120 1 have them cleaned so that we can store them and reissue them 2 later. The only other time is if I promoted somebody and 3 stripes need to be sewn on or something like that, then we 4 pay for that. But the day -- the cleaning, the employees 5 have to pay for out of their own pocket, period. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know that khakis and 7 a white shirt is considered a uniform, and -- in government 8 circles, or at least my circle, and I was wondering if the 9 County would be interested in paying mine -- my laundry. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we can get you into 11 Tim's uniform list. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, who does yours? 13 MR. BOLLIER: UniFirst. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: UniFirst? 15 MR. BOLLIER: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the same thing, isn't 17 it? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not saying that it 20 should or shouldn't be. I'm just trying to -- I'm trying to 21 decide here. So, UniFirst is just like going to Durrin's 22 Cleaners? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It says -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Produce clean uniforms, 25 turn in dirty ones. 5-27-08 121 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They press them and make 2 them real pretty? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And they have the ability -- they 5 don't have to be like this. They can -- they got them in 6 khakis, white Oxford shirts, if you want that, with logos. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Various sizes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The question would be whether 9 or not that should be includable for tax purposes to you as 10 additional compensation. 11 MR. BOLLIER: We've avoided that issue over at 12 Maintenance, because there are patches and logos, and we 13 don't provide the pants. We just provide the shirts. 14 MS. HARGIS: Far as I know, in Environmental Health 15 they just provide the hats and the shirts. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am way past that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess the question, why 18 doesn't Environmental Health use a uniform service instead of 19 going to Durrin's Cleaners? 20 MS. HARGIS: I don't know. You got me. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will try to find out. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe it's cheaper. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only issue I would say is, it 24 may open up a can of worms, because if the County's going to 25 pay for cleaning for employees' uniforms, I've got about 70 5-27-08 122 1 of them that sure are going to raise heck with me if the 2 County's not paying it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's in the back 4 of our mind. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's going to be in the front 6 of mine when they hear about this, I can tell you. 7 MR. BOLLIER: And also, when UniFirst -- I mean, 8 y'all probably know this. UniFirst replaces your clothes as 9 soon as they -- if you rip them, they can't be fixed, they 10 replace them with no charge. And once your pants start 11 getting -- once your pants start getting faded way out, 12 they'll replace those too without no charge. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was all my questions. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're pretty expensive on 15 that kind of stuff. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Speaking of opening up a can of 18 worms -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what y'all are 20 talking about. I just -- I just had a simple question. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 22 discussion on the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have one. It's a 24 short one. I notice in the County Auditor's, there's only -- 25 there's only been two checks written in the last two weeks. 5-27-08 123 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Frances Kaiser. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on, 4 Commissioner? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 21. So, those are the only 6 two bills in your office that are having to be paid? The 7 rest of them come at the first of the month, and there will 8 be a lot longer list? I only see two items, $7.18 and the 9 contract $1,180. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, look who walked in. 11 We just finished talking about Durrin's Cleaners, and look 12 who walks in. 13 MR. WHATLEY: Is there a problem? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 15 MS. HARGIS: We haven't been -- we haven't ordered 16 a lot of office supplies or anything of that nature right 17 now. The only other bill that was submitted was from my 18 conference reimbursement. As far as I know, that's all we've 19 done. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I was just asking. 21 MS. HARGIS: We try to buy our supplies -- we have 22 at least a three-month supply of paper and things of that 23 nature when we buy, and toner. We're a small office; we 24 don't really have that much. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: There's not a compliant being lodged 5-27-08 124 1 that you're not spending enough money. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not a complaint, okay? 4 MS. HARGIS: That we don't spend? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MS. HARGIS: To be honest, you know, I don't 7 necessarily watch every -- you know, but I do sign them, and 8 I didn't sign that many for ours. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be quiet. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 13 by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 18 any budget amendments? Budget amendments? 19 MS. HARGIS: No. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Late bills? 21 MS. HARGIS: No late bills. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been presented with 23 monthly reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; County 24 Clerk, both general and trust fund; and Constable, Precinct 25 3. Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as 5-27-08 125 1 presented? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval as presented. Question or discussion? All in favor 6 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay. Do 11 we have any reports from any of the Commissioners in 12 connection with their liaison or committee assignments? One? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Two? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only that the door-to-door 16 canvassing on the EDAP application for Water Development 17 Board is completed. Waiting on the Community Resource Group 18 to crunch some numbers and give us the report. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? Three? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If anybody wants to go to Camp 21 Wood tomorrow, Region J has a meeting at -- 9:00? 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: 10:00. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 o'clock. There will be a 24 public meeting to comment on the scope of work, followed by 25 the board meeting. And -- 5-27-08 126 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, I want to go to that 2 thing so bad. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Ms. Hargis, I presume, saw 4 my e-mail this morning that I've finished the very rough 5 draft of the -- of the 2006-2007 management discussion that 6 somehow landed in my lap several years ago. And I'm working 7 with her; we'll have that hopefully by our first meeting in 8 June for approval by the Court. So, any -- any highlights of 9 that year that you happen to think of, just let me know and 10 I'll include it. It was a somewhat uneventful year, from my 11 recollection. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a good thing, 13 wouldn't it? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a good thing. The only 15 thing I really recall happened of significance out of the 16 ordinary of our budget stuff is the settlement of the 17 insurance case was that year, which is a good thing. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than that, I don't think 20 we -- I mean, nothing very extraordinary happened, which is 21 good, 'cause the prior couple of years, we had lots of 22 extraordinary things from -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: But negative. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Negative extraordinary. That 25 was a positive this time. 5-27-08 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 4? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing. I'll be quiet. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It is now -- 4 MS. HARGIS: Judge? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you stretching? 6 MR. WHATLEY: I just had a question, if I might. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Does it deal with an agenda item? 8 MR. WHATLEY: Yes. I got here late, and I'm sorry; 9 I just found out about it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. WHATLEY: Live Springs Ranch, that agenda item. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. We held a public hearing with 14 regard to the -- no, that was not a public hearing. That 15 dealt with a concept plan and then a -- a variance request. 16 Concept plan, no formal action was taken since it was a 17 concept plan. The variance request was approved. 18 MR. WHATLEY: If I might make a comment on it? Or 19 is it too late? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- the agenda item's been 21 called and is done, over, saucered, blowed and gone. 22 MR. WHATLEY: It's just the homeowners -- the 23 property owners out there have not been notified there was 24 going to be a hearing. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There will be -- there will be 5-27-08 128 1 notification. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There hasn't been a hearing. 3 MR. WHATLEY: Oh, it's just -- nothing now? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all will be -- there will be 5 a revision -- I understand from the concept, there will be a 6 revision of plat, and there will be a public hearing on that 7 when they provide notice for it. 8 MR. WHATLEY: Excuse me, I didn't know. I just got 9 a call from Houston telling me. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That would relate to the concept 11 plan that we took no action on. And they'll present it as a 12 preliminary plat proposal at some point down the road. 13 MR. WHATLEY: Okay, then we're early. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 16 MS. HARGIS: Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from elected officials? 18 MS. HARGIS: I'm not an elected official. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to get to department heads 20 in just a minute. 21 MS. HARGIS: All right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Reports from department 23 heads? 24 MS. HARGIS: Why did I know you were going to do 25 that? 5-27-08 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Got her. 2 MS. HARGIS: I should have just gone over to the 3 side. The -- we did send out an e-mail this morning 4 notifying everyone that the budget process -- to play with 5 the budget process will be through the end of this week, to 6 continue changing their -- or looking at how to do it. We 7 will open the real budget on Monday, the 2nd, and they will 8 have until the 16th to put their budgets in so that we can 9 reach the time frame that the Judge has for us, so that you 10 can have the opportunity with the computers and so forth to 11 make your changes. So, they have approximately two weeks to 12 start their budgets and complete them. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do we get our computers? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. 15 MS. HARGIS: They're here. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Run that -- run those 17 statements by us one more time, now? 18 MS. HARGIS: June -- the rest of this week, they 19 have the opportunity to continue training themselves on their 20 computers. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: Okay? Which they have had now for the 23 whole month. Those who have not been hooked up to the 24 computers and are having problems, are remotely located, 25 we're going to work with them separately. They're welcome to 5-27-08 130 1 come in our office and do them, or we'll go out in the field 2 and work with them with paper and pencil. Then we will 3 actually load what will be the new budget -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's stay on that other 5 topic just for a second. The Extension Service, people that 6 are not Incoded, you have -- you're going to have an extra 7 computer in your office for people like them to come to to 8 load their budget into, right? 9 MS. HARGIS: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we encourage them to 11 please come do that? Or -- 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes, we did in the e-mail, and we've 13 already talked to them. Roy came back to see me. We would 14 very much like to get him on a separate computer. John is 15 working on that, but it may not be done for this year. But 16 we're going to try to get him online so that he has the 17 availability to be able to see the budget year-round, which 18 is a tool that we want them to have. Part of being online 19 with this tool and giving everyone the opportunity to view it 20 and to input their own budgets through the computer is not 21 just for this time frame; it's for the whole 12 months. So, 22 you know, it becomes their tool to use as management for -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you saying -- tell me 24 about this extra. We may -- we're wanting him to -- Roy to 25 have one out at his office? 5-27-08 131 1 MS. HARGIS: We're going to see if he can be 2 remotely connected to our server. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may not happen till 4 next year, so you're going to have the extra one in your 5 office this year? 6 MS. HARGIS: The extra computer is located in my 7 office now. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay, that's -- okay. 9 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I wasn't real clear. 10 MS. HARGIS: The extra computer is located in my 11 office now. We still have some problems getting some of the 12 folks who are in outlying areas -- for instance, Animal 13 Control is still not hooked up yet. I don't think Road and 14 Bridge is hooked up yet. And part of this is waiting on -- 15 they're waiting on the line to be hooked up for them, but 16 they will get on this year too. Roy's situation is a little 17 different. He -- as is Adult Probation, because they have 18 their own computer systems. Roy is on the A & M system, so 19 he's not even on our system, so that makes it a little hard, 20 but we're trying to figure out a way to get him on, either 21 through his computer system, or we may have to give him -- 22 you know, or he may have to ask for another computer from 23 A & M that we can put our system on. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why can't he drive over 25 here, walk into her office and sit down and enter the stuff 5-27-08 132 1 in that extra computer? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what he's going to have to do 3 this year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the difference in 5 that and purchasing another computer and putting it -- I 6 mean, I don't get it. I don't see what the big deal is, 7 walking in her office and doing it. 8 MS. HARGIS: He can do it that way. The difference 9 to him is managing his budget on a daily basis throughout the 10 year. It would be nice for him to be able to do that, 11 because then he would not have to call us. When he's going 12 on trips and when he's planning on all of these stock shows, 13 he -- he has to come in almost every other day to check and 14 make sure that, you know, he's in line and he's -- and -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 16 MS. HARGIS: Part of the problem is the traveling, 17 the gasoline situation with him and so forth. So, we just 18 felt that it would be nice for him to have that tool to be 19 able to print his own reports possibly to give A & M, without 20 having to go through us and so forth. Again, this is not a 21 short-term tool. This is something that they will have to 22 work with all year, and that's one of the reasons why I think 23 they'll find it very advantageous. The first time will be a 24 little cumbersome, but after that, they'll get used to using 25 it during the year, as well as you will be able to pull it up 5-27-08 133 1 to see if a department is in line. I think that would be 2 really great for Bruce, because of him having several 3 departments under him, and being able to review that if he 4 needs to, and to meet with them to be able to pull it up. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this week -- they're 6 still finishing up the training? 7 MS. HARGIS: They -- yeah, they're practicing on 8 theirs. And, so, you know, we may have to help some 9 departments, which we're more -- you know, Ken can go one way 10 and I can go another, and we'll do it. We'll help as many 11 people as we can. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if you're going to load 13 the documents for the next budget year -- next week? Is that 14 what you said? 15 MS. HARGIS: They will be on Monday morning. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are you going to 17 facilitate training for these five individuals? 18 MS. HARGIS: We'll still be able to train y'all 19 with the budget being up, because you're going to see the 20 whole system, and we can still go into that training modular 21 for you. But, you know, we're just going to turn it on -- 22 and we can turn it on based on your name. That's the way we 23 have it set up. So, we'll -- we'll -- when we train you, we 24 will turn it on so that y'all can be trained by -- through 25 the training module which we set up a special budget to use 5-27-08 134 1 just to train, and so we'll still be able to help y'all with 2 that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 4 MS. HARGIS: And your computers are here, because 5 the invoice is on my desk. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The computers are here. 7 They've been here for 10 days, so -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ten days? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A week. Been here a week, 10 and we don't have them yet. So, I've gotten tired of going 11 down there beating on him, and I was following the Judge down 12 there, I understand. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When's the wiring -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- y'all take turns and go 15 get him. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When's the wiring going to 17 take place? 18 MS. HARGIS: I just know the computers are here 19 because of the invoice. I don't know anything about the 20 wiring. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the date? 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: I thought they started today. 23 Later today? And it's going to take -- I thought he said, 24 like, two weeks. 25 MR. BOLLIER: They said -- I know he said today. 5-27-08 135 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you're talking -- you 2 may be talking about the -- the court teleconferencing and 3 security stuff. That's supposed to be starting. Not -- 4 their deal is totally different. 5 MS. GRINSTEAD: No, but I think John said he was 6 going to try and have them do it at the same time. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do them at the same time. 8 MS. GRINSTEAD: That's what John said. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 10 MS. HARGIS: Any more questions? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other department heads? Okay. 12 It is now 12:13, and we will go out of public or open session 13 to go into executive session to consider the remaining items 14 on our agenda. 15 (The open session was closed at 12:13 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 16 is contained in a separate document.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to into open 19 or public session. It is 1:14. Does any member of the Court 20 have anything to offer in connection with matters discussed 21 in executive session? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can do 20 and 21. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. All right. Let 25 me do 20. I move that we authorize Ms. Hyde to advertise 5-27-08 136 1 internally for the position of Court Compliance Department 2 head, and -- excuse me? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Clerk -- or I guess it is a 4 department head, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt you. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, department head. And 6 I understand that we'd offer the salary of 16.1, whatever 7 that is. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 10 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? Does that 11 include review? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it does. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 90-day review. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 90-day review, all right. Question 16 or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde had her hand up. 22 MS. HYDE: I have a little question. They stay 23 where they're at? Whoever gets the position would stay where 24 they're at with no loss, right? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 5-27-08 137 1 MS. HYDE: And then, at the end of 90 days, is that 2 when they to go 16-1? After passing the review? I just want 3 to make sure, if I talk to anybody, that I'm at least talking 4 to them right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. 6 MS. HYDE: He's looking at me real strange. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that what we said? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that your motion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, that's what we 10 agreed to. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are you going to -- are you 12 going to pay them as a 16-1 initially, with a review after 13 90, or are you going to bring them on at wherever they are, 14 with -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My desire is to bring them 16 on at 16-1. 17 MS. HYDE: Okay, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Offer them a 16-1, and then 19 after the 90-day review, we'll talk about where we go -- 20 present salary, et cetera. 21 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody clearly understand 23 the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I understand it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5-27-08 138 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You do not have to like it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to like it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- but under that motion, 5 what if there's -- at the end of 90 days, does this person go 6 back to where they were? Or just gone? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. In my mind, they're 8 going to go to the present salary. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but what if we -- what if 10 the person isn't working out? What happens to the person 11 after 90 days? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe they go with the City. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, they're -- so the 14 spot they're coming from in the county, that spot's no longer 15 available to them? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I run this 17 department; I don't run those others. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we were talking 19 about a lateral transfer with a 90-day review, potential to 20 go to 16-1. I thought that's what we were talking about. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that better, personally, 22 but that wasn't the motion. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I know it wasn't the 24 motion. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to take what I can 5-27-08 139 1 get out of this thing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there's not a second yet, 3 is there? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think it's a bad idea 6 to go to a 16-1 to begin with, because I don't believe you're 7 going to get somebody to agree to work in that department at 8 a lesser -- a lesser step and grade. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No lesser. So, the -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You tell them 16-1 after 90 11 days. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- lateral for 90 days. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tough. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The motion is they come on at 16 a 16-1, probationary review in 90 days, and anything's 17 possible at that point? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All options are open. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. I can't tell 21 you what's going to happen at the end of 90 days. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, that's the motion. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second your motion. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a second. Question or 25 discussion on that motion? 5-27-08 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, in your mind, is there a 2 likelihood of an increase after a 16-1? To me, 16-1 -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After 90 days? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were going to -- if I 6 had the opportunity to vote on that today, I would probably 7 vote to take that person to whatever the salary is today, as 8 the head of that department. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which is much greater than 10 what this is. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You asked me what was in my 12 mind, and that's what's in my mind. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or discussion? All 15 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (Commissioner Letz voted against the motion.) 19 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you vote? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You voted for? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that motion does carry. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have our first split vote 5-27-08 141 1 in a while. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's go back and do it 4 again, see what the Judge does. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Think Buzzie's, and get 6 along at lunch. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- yeah, Buzzie's 8 is open today, isn't it? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other -- any other action 10 to be offered? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Item 21. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we transfer 14 Eddie North from the Environmental Health Department to the 15 Court Compliance Department, to continue his working 16 arrangement, two days a week or something. I can't -- I'm 17 really not sure. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At existing salary? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Existing salary. 20 Existing -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same level. Same step and 22 grade. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same number of hours, et 5-27-08 142 1 cetera. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 3 Question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the 4 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any other 9 motions to be offered with regard to matters considered in 10 executive session? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 12 transfer the duties of -- for elections from the County 13 Clerk's office to the Tax Assessor's office, effective 14 immediately, with the assurance about to be stated publicly 15 from the County Clerk that she will assist through this 16 complete election cycle to make sure we have a smooth 17 transition. 18 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I will make that verbal 19 commitment to assist them in all aspects of the election 20 through the end of the November election cycle. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 24 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5-27-08 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any other 4 action to be offered? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to do another -- 6 another motion related to that on transferring an employee? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you probably do. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 9 transfer Nadene Alford from the County Clerk's office to the 10 Tax Assessor's -- or to the Tax Assessor's office at a 17-12. 11 Isn't that right? Isn't that -- 12 MS. PIEPER: Yeah. She's shaking her head yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's for the purpose of -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of heading up -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Elections Administration department. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, working Elections 18 Administration department. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 20 as indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? 21 MS. HYDE: Is that a different one? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, the second -- 24 different motion. 25 MS. HYDE: A different motion. 5-27-08 144 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's to deal only with 3 transferring Nadene. 4 MS. HYDE: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion also carried. Any other 12 motions to be offered in connection with matters considered 13 in executive session? Any other business on this particular 14 agenda? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what about the Item 16 1? Did -- just seeing this lady walk in made me think, did 17 Ms. Shelby ever come -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That wasn't her, was it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know. I'm certainly not 20 aware of -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to talk about the dog 22 park? That is a dog park. You guys get it in your head, 23 that's what it is. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only in the minds of a 25 select few. 5-27-08 145 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what it is; 2 it's a dog park. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If I see her, I'll send her down to 4 Buzzie's. We stand adjourned. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me rescind my declaration of 7 we're adjourned. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we adjust 9 the step and grade for Michelle to a -- 10 MS. HYDE: 17-1. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 17-1. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 14 indicated. Question or discussion? That's because she's 15 working with the Elections Department? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. For the -- and 17 realigning the Elections Department and functions that go 18 with that department, which is transferring. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 20 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 21 hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carried. Now, 5-27-08 146 1 gentlemen, this is your last chance. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm gone. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm out of here. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We stand adjourned. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:25 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of May, 2008. 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-27-08