1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Special Session 9 Tuesday, June 3, 2008 10 1:30 p.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 Fill Vacancy in Court Compliance Department 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Tuesday, June 3, 2008, at 1:30 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 special meeting of the -- special meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this time and 10 date, Tuesday, June 3, 2008, at 1:30 p.m. It is that time 11 now. One item on the agenda, to consider, discuss, and take 12 appropriate action to fill a vacancy in the Court Compliance 13 Department. Let me first inquire if there's any visitors 14 that wish to have anything to tell us that's not a listed 15 agenda item, inasmuch as it's on the agenda. Is there any 16 member of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter 17 not a listed agenda item? 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, now we'll go forward. The 20 first item, consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 21 fill a vacancy in the Court Compliance Department. 22 Commissioner Baldwin? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. We'd 24 like to welcome the Sheriff to this meeting. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: (via teleconferencing) Hello, 6-3-08 3 1 Buster. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's hold it down over there. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll try. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See? He's satellite, and 5 he's still trying to take over. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's eavesdropping. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By the Court's orders or 8 request, we went out and advertised in-house for how many 9 days? 10 MS. HYDE: We did it Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 11 Sunday, and Monday. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five days, and we only had 13 one -- I believe one -- 14 MS. HYDE: Internal. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- applicant that was 16 internal. Several that were outside had heard about it and 17 applied -- two, I guess. I've got one e-mail from a lady. 18 But I think we've complied with what the Court wished to do, 19 and I want to offer a -- I want to offer a court order, and 20 then go from there. And so I move that we appoint Terry Lyle 21 as the director of the Collections Department -- or what's 22 the name of it? 23 MS. HYDE: It says Court Collections Officer. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Compliance. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Court Compliance Officer, 6-3-08 4 1 and offer her the -- the plan of the 16-1 for 90 days, and at 2 the end of 90 days, have a review and just go from there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there an intent, 7 Commissioner, to leave this at a Level 16, or a possible -- 8 or is that part of the evaluation after 90 days? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, I would think that 10 this person would go to another level, and I think we'll be 11 in -- or we'll be probably done with the budget, I would 12 think, in 90 days. Maybe, maybe not. But if -- if all the 13 numbers remain the same, the salaries would remain the same, 14 I would think that this person would go -- at the end of 90 15 days, if she passes muster, would go to the salary that's 16 presently in there now. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't answer that. And 19 neither can she. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But between -- in that 90-day 21 period, though, Ms. Hyde can make sure that that job 22 description -- it's a good time to make an adjustment if we 23 need to between that job description and what's going on. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make sure we fall in line. 6-3-08 5 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. And she came 2 to me yesterday and asked me an interesting question, and 3 that is, "At the end of 90 days, what if y'all decide that I 4 can't do the job?" And my answer was, "Can't do the job? 5 See 'ya." See, she's employed, and has been employed, I 6 think, seven years in the Clerk's office now, and she'll 7 leave there and they will, I assume, fill that slot, and the 8 lady will be without a job. That's the way life is, I guess. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of the way it works. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of the way it works. 11 You know, I can't answer those questions. So, if she -- and 12 so I just went and talked to her, "Are you sure you want to 13 do this?" And she said yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 15 the motion? Ms. Hyde? 16 MS. HYDE: Regarding the job description, since the 17 last time we all talked, I found out that there's some 18 reports and things that we're supposed to be doing, so I just 19 want to make sure, before I step into it, to make sure that 20 I'm doing the right job descriptions. I believe that there's 21 some reporting that is pretty detailed and pretty 22 detail-oriented that, right now, John Trolinger has been 23 doing and helping with, using the system. So, I'm not saying 24 she can't be trained on it, but I just want to make everyone 25 aware that -- you know, I don't want anyone to think that I'm 6-3-08 6 1 jumping out there, you know, in no-man's land, if that's what 2 you truly want me to do, to make sure that we're setting it 3 up the way that you guys want it set up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs to be -- I 5 don't -- I wasn't aware that John was doing it. I don't want 6 John doing it. I mean, that's not his job, in my mind, doing 7 reports for other departments. 8 MR. TROLINGER: My only input is that this position 9 requires someone that can manipulate, I'll say -- but can 10 look at the -- look at the numbers, analyze it, and give 11 y'all a report of the courts in the county and the district, 12 to tell you the bottom line, and assembled in a simple and 13 understandable way. And it's very complex. Everything that 14 goes into making up this compliance report is very complex, 15 and it requires just about the level of a statistician. So, 16 I just wanted to make you aware that it is -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Now that we've 18 heard what your requirements are of this job, is it your 19 requirement to see that that person has that knowledge? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Not at all. I've been asked -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: I've been demanded to -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whose job -- let me finish. 24 Whose job is it to see that that person is trained to 25 understand all that? Somebody answer the question. 6-3-08 7 1 MS. UECKER: Commissioners Court employees. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The person who's vacating 3 the job will look over that a little bit, wouldn't he? 4 MS. HYDE: Typically, the transitional -- if you're 5 doing a transition employee -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have a computer 7 training person in the county? 8 MS. HYDE: Not at this time, no. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, John. 10 MS. HYDE: John and Drew would be the only ones. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 12 MS. HYDE: Like I prefaced, you know, that's not 13 saying that that person cannot do the job. We're going to 14 have to try to find out. 'Cause what I understand now is 15 that there's an OCA report that needs to be done and given to 16 y'all once a month, and I don't know -- you know, I kind of 17 got that one from a blindside. So, I don't know if I'll find 18 anything else out, but we'll have to work closely. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we're being 20 blindsided as well. And I agree with you, if we're supposed 21 to have that report, get the damn report in here. 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if that person doesn't 24 know how to run the report, somebody needs to teach that 25 person how to run the report and get it done. You know, I 6-3-08 8 1 don't want to hear a bunch of whining about this. This is 2 not that big of a deal. Teach the person how to do the 3 report and what the report consists of, and get the report in 4 here. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's very important. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's difficult about that? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to be very 8 important, 'cause this is something we have not received, and 9 I just found -- I found this out kind of through this 10 process. So, we really don't know at this point -- of 11 course, we're talking about hiring a person, and maybe we 12 need to put it on the next agenda to discuss more about this 13 process. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, we're going to vote on 15 this issue today. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that, but I'm 17 talking about -- I'm not talking about putting the 18 appointment off. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about, you know, 21 what we need to have that employee do for us that's required. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's the job 23 description issue that we're talking about. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, okay. But I do think 25 it's something for the next agenda, as far as we need to make 6-3-08 9 1 ourselves a little more educated about that process we're 2 asking this person to do. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or I don't know. I mean, if 4 we're giving the person 90 days to learn, I think we have -- 5 you know, the next agenda or the one after that agenda is 6 pretty short notice. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the person come over 8 from the Clerk's office with some basic computer skills? 9 MS. PIEPER: I believe so. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It seems to me that the Office of 11 Court Administration probably has some folks on staff over 12 there that could be of considerable assistance about these 13 reports that are due to that office; that anybody with -- 14 with reasonably good computer skills, and has the data 15 available to them, can figure out a way to do that report. I 16 assume they've got a format that they have mandated at OCA 17 for this report, have they not, Mr. Trolinger? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 20 discussion on that motion? Ms. Uecker? You want to weigh in 21 on something totally outside of your department? 22 MS. UECKER: Excuse me? You don't think this is 23 inside my department? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, ma'am, I don't. 25 MS. UECKER: Well -- 6-3-08 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, you may have an interaction 2 with that department. 3 MS. UECKER: I do. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. UECKER: Big time. I -- with John's help this 6 morning, I was able to run some collection reports on some 7 198th and 216th numbers. And I guess the point I want to 8 make is, this Court stressed how important this is. And to 9 give you a little information about the County Court at Law 10 collections rate, that's very, very high, but to explain to 11 you why it is. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, wait just a minute 13 here. What are we fixing to do? Are we fixing to attack -- 14 MS. UECKER: No, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the department? 16 MS. UECKER: You need to just calm down. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't need to -- do we 18 need to get that person in here before we -- 19 MS. UECKER: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- throw too many rocks? 21 MS. UECKER: This is just numbers. I'm just going 22 to try to educate with you some numbers. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 MS. UECKER: We looked at some of the judgments. 25 We randomly pulled a whole bunch of County Court at Law 6-3-08 11 1 judgments. And on their report that I think you have 2 available on your computer, you'll see that, combined, the 3 rate is -- of the charges assessed is a million dollars, 4 almost. Of that, although it shows a high percentage rate of 5 collections, money actually collected is $246,000. Credit 6 given is 384, almost $400,000. So, we got to wondering 7 why -- why there's so much credit, because if you notice on 8 the district court report, there's very little credit given 9 at all. Any money we collect is cash money. So, when we 10 look -- pulled up some of the judgments, almost every 11 judgment in County Court at Law invites the defendant to 12 serve out his fine and costs at $50 a day. Well, who 13 wouldn't? So, when you look at this report that John ran, 14 almost everything is laid out. And I'm not sure that -- I 15 didn't realize that until just before lunch. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you looking at the same 17 report there in your hands that I'm looking at? 18 MS. UECKER: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't look like it. 20 MS. UECKER: Oh. Oh, the one just passed out that 21 I gave you? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am. 23 MS. UECKER: That's the felony stuff. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 MS. UECKER: What I've got is on your -- I think is 6-3-08 12 1 on your -- John? -- on your laptop, report on collections. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why it doesn't look like the 3 one you got. 4 MS. UECKER: The point I'm trying to make is, not 5 only are they laying out all of their fines and court costs 6 in jail, it's costing the County another $50 a day for them 7 to be able to do that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait. Wait, I have a question. 9 I like the information, but what in the world does this have 10 to do with us on a motion to hire somebody? 11 MS. UECKER: Well, just to stress the importance, 12 and maybe what we can see about where we can go from -- from 13 here to try to collect more money, rather than laying out 14 more money. And maybe it doesn't at this time. I just 15 thought maybe that's information you wanted to know. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's information I want 17 to know, and I think it's important as to how we structure 18 that department, possibly. 19 MS. UECKER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And who's making that call, 21 from what you're saying. I mean, my thought would be that 22 that's a Spencer Brown issue. I have no idea. But, I mean, 23 I think the Judge determines what's to be done on individual 24 cases, not the Collections Department, which is reactionary, 25 but I don't know. I mean, I have no -- 6-3-08 13 1 MS. PIEPER: I think it's the law that if a person 2 sits in jail a couple of days prior to coming to the court, I 3 believe that they have to give them the -- the credit for the 4 time served. 5 MS. UECKER: Well, or -- 6 MS. PIEPER: I think that's where that's coming in 7 at. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 9 MS. UECKER: Well, no, that is part of -- that's a 10 little part of it, but they're also invited after the 11 sentence to lay out their fine and court costs in jail. 12 And -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But my point is, I don't know 14 how that's -- 15 MS. UECKER: Okay. And maybe -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're off the agenda item. But 17 I want the information, and I think that's interesting, and 18 we need to fix that, 'cause I think that what you're saying 19 is that we're spending, basically, $100 a day, or double what 20 the credit is, that is costing the taxpayers money. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's a net zero. 22 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And the point -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifty -- $50 to incarcerate 24 to give them credit for, so net zero. 25 MS. UECKER: The point I'm trying to make is that 6-3-08 14 1 this report, although it shows an extremely high collection 2 rate, is not much cash at all in our pocket. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MS. UECKER: And, you know, maybe we need to do 5 something else with the County Attorney. I understand that 6 the Judge will just do whatever. But, you know, I just 7 thought maybe this is some information you wanted to know. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want the information. I'm 9 not sure it's relevant to the decision. 10 MS. UECKER: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What happens if a fine is assessed, 12 court costs are assessed, and the individual doesn't pay the 13 fine or the court cost? What -- what remedy does the Court 14 have? 15 MS. UECKER: In County Court at Law? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 MS. UECKER: In County Court at Law, they can go to 18 jail. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. UECKER: And arrest -- but on misdemeanors. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MS. UECKER: On felonies, it's a little bit 23 different. There has to be a hearing, and then a certain 24 period of time, and then -- and even then, you know, most 25 judges consider it a debtor's prison, and they won't 6-3-08 15 1 incarcerate anyone. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, then, County Court at Law, you 3 say the remedy is that if they don't pay, they can go to 4 jail. 5 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If they go to jail, is it not true 7 that they get credit at the rate of $50 a day while they're 8 in jail against their obligation to Kerr County? 9 MS. UECKER: That's right, if they don't pay their 10 fine. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Invitation or no invitation, I guess 12 my point is, you get the same result either way. 13 MS. UECKER: Of course you do, but it's the same 14 way on felony stuff. You look at the report that -- I mean, 15 but -- it's just information I thought you needed to know. 16 And how it compares with -- in district court, we try real 17 hard not to offer to lay it out in jail, because, number one, 18 there's no room in jail, and it costs the County another 50 19 bucks a day to let them do that, and we'd rather have the 20 money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 22 MS. UECKER: So, just for your information. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 24 MS. UECKER: And just to stress how important I 25 think this position is to you. 6-3-08 16 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 2 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any other 8 business to come before the Court on this particular agenda? 9 In that event, we will be adjourned. 10 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:50 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 17 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 18 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 19 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 3rd day of June, 2008. 20 21 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 22 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter 24 25 6-3-08