1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, August 6, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 6, 2008 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2008-09 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto, for various County Departments, including, but not limited to the following departments: 5 County Clerk 3 6 Sheriff's Office 14 Jail 34 7 Courthouse Security 54 DPS 60 8 Crime Victims 66 Road & Bridge 73 9 Animal Control 102 City/County 105 10 Environmental Health 121 Juvenile Probation Department 142 11 Court Compliance 151 County Auditor 164 12 Extension Service --- County Sponsored 181 13 Adjourned 209 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, August 6, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come to order this 8 morning for our workshop budget meeting of Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this date and 10 time, Wednesday, August 6th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is a bit 11 past that time now. The agenda item for this morning is to 12 review and discuss fiscal year 2008-09 budgets and fiscal, 13 capital expenditure, and personnel matters related thereto 14 for various county departments, including, but not limited 15 to, the following departments: County Clerk, Sheriff's 16 Office, Jail, Courthouse Security, Crime Victims, D.P.S., 17 Road and Bridge, Juvenile Probation Department, Environmental 18 Health, Animal Control, Extension Service, County-Sponsored, 19 Court Compliance, and County Auditor. Looks like the County 20 Clerk is first up. 21 MS. PIEPER: Good morning. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 23 MS. PIEPER: Okay. I'm going to start at the top, 24 gentlemen -- well, second to the top. On the employee 25 training, I know I had requested $1,500, but our travel 8-6-08 bwk 4 1 allowance for the mileage comes out of our conference line 2 items, so in either my employee training or my conference 3 line item, I'd like to request additional money just for the 4 added expense in gas. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Line 216, Employee 6 Training? 7 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you asking for? 9 MS. PIEPER: I would like to have around $300 to 10 $500 more just in the added expense for gas. I would like my 11 chief deputy to attend two conferences for the new budget 12 year, our annual conference and vital statistics conference. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if that's the case, you're 14 talking about increased mileage expense? 15 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Under conferences, let's see what 17 we've got there. 18 MS. PIEPER: Under conferences, that's normally 19 what I use, but there are times, depending on the 20 registration and the miles that we have to travel -- excuse 21 me -- we pool our money together to meet those needs. Now, 22 this year, I did not use all of my conference money because I 23 have not been able to attend the schools to get all my hours 24 I need, so I'm trying to work on that, to get the remaining 25 hours, 'cause I had too many elections at the beginning of 8-6-08 bwk 5 1 the year. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you'll be disappointed to 3 know, if you haven't checked up there on the screen, that 4 your 9,500 that you requested had been reduced to 2,000. 5 MS. PIEPER: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Primarily based upon the historical 7 expenditures in your office. 8 MS. PIEPER: Well, that money that I had requested 9 in that was for the Odyssey training. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. But we had a discussion 11 about that. 12 MS. PIEPER: Correct, we did. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What you're saying is you 14 want the 2,000 increased to 2,500 to -- 15 MS. PIEPER: To offset the mileage. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Going from whatever it was last 17 year, down at 40 or 44-something up now to 58.5, I believe. 18 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: May go higher. I understand it's 20 destined to go to 60.5 or something; they're talking about 21 it. As the mileage is a component of conference 22 expenditures, travel in connection with conferences, I don't 23 see that that's out of line. Anybody have any different 24 feeling from that? You've already changed that, Ken? 25 MR. RUARK: I will in a second. 8-6-08 bwk 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that must have come out 2 of detail. Did it? 3 MR. RUARK: Possibly. 4 MS. HARGIS: It did. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're changing which line? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Conferences from 2,000 to 2,500. 8 Original request was 9,500. 9 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 10 MR. RUARK: Okay, I've got it. 11 MS. PIEPER: Going down to Line Item 461, Lease 12 Copier, my lease copier charges is going to go up slightly. 13 This was a renewal on the contract that we did, I believe, 14 like, a month ago, and so I need to increase that $705 more. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If we put in 16,000 even, that ought 16 to be about right. 17 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You got that also in detail, I 19 presume, Ken? 'Cause it won't register on mine. 20 MR. RUARK: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. RUARK: I add $705 to -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, just round it off to -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sixteen. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 16,000 even. 8-6-08 bwk 7 1 MR. RUARK: Under Lease Copier, correct? 2 MS. HARGIS: It's 24,000. 3 MR. RUARK: Yeah, it's 24,000 total. The detail 4 is -- $16,000 -- I mean -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: On 461. 6 MR. RUARK: 461, Icon copier is $12,000. 7 Icon-ready printer is 4,872; Xerox copier is 5,591, and plat 8 scanner supplies is 1,800, for a total of 24,263. Which is 9 right here. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever it takes to make that line 11 item total out 16,000, that's what you want. 12 MR. RUARK: Right here? Okay. Let's do it this 13 way. Okay, now you've got copier, 16,000. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Zero out everything else. 15 MR. RUARK: Zero out everything else? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We appreciate the detail, but 17 it makes it more difficult to change it. 18 MS. PIEPER: I understand that, yes. 19 MR. RUARK: There you go. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Where else are we? 21 MS. PIEPER: Okay, gentlemen. Yesterday I had a -- 22 one of my scanners bit the dust. Drew said that it's not -- 23 that it's out of warranty, and it's not going to be sent off 24 to get repaired. So, either in operating equipment or 25 capital outlay, I would like to get money to replace that 8-6-08 bwk 8 1 scanner, and I'm told it costs $950. And then on that same 2 note, either operating equipment or capital outlay, I'd like 3 to have money to purchase a laptop to keep here in the 4 courtroom for probate court, commissioners court, juvenile 5 court, for the deputies. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there not a laptop that's 7 utilized now? 8 MS. PIEPER: There is one in County Court at Law, 9 but I think it would be easier if we could have one just to 10 keep in here. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you use one of these? 12 'Cause I don't take mine home. 13 MS. PIEPER: Oh, you don't? Yes, we could. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't do much good with a 15 dial-up. 16 MS. PIEPER: Okay, yeah. Then I'll mark laptop 17 off. That will be great. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We still have smoke signals 19 out west. 20 MS. PIEPER: Okay. So, if I could just have the 21 950 for the scanner, then we can put this one to bed. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So, change capital outlay to 950 -- 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes, please. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for a scanner? Bingo. Okay, is 25 that it? 8-6-08 bwk 9 1 MS. PIEPER: That's it, unless y'all have any 2 questions on it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like the final there. Okay. 4 Any questions of Ms. Pieper? Let's move to the Sheriff's 5 Office. 6 MS. PIEPER: Sir, I have my records management and 7 my records archival. Do you want to do that as well? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. Which one do you want to go to 9 first? 404? 10 MS. PIEPER: We can go to 404. And I'm not 11 requesting anything different than what I have requested in 12 the initial budget. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me make sure I haven't hammered 14 it. 15 MS. PIEPER: On that budget, I have $1,000 for 16 office supplies, and then I have $1,932 for my microfilm 17 storage, and $750 for my continuing education on that, and 18 that's it. 19 MR. RUARK: That was eliminated, looks like, Judge. 20 MS. PIEPER: I had -- I had some help on my 21 education, but the Judge put it in, so thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You have something with continuing 23 ed? 24 MS. PIEPER: $750 is what I always put in that for 25 my continuing education. 8-6-08 bwk 10 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I don't show it as requested. 2 MS. PIEPER: No, I had failed to do that. But I 3 had noticed yesterday that it had showed in the 4 administrative recommended, so I do want to keep that 750. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does it show 750 up there? 6 MS. HARGIS: No. 7 MR. RUARK: No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't here, either. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It does on the -- no, it 10 doesn't on the requested. She didn't request it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It does now. 12 MR. RUARK: Okay. 13 MS. PIEPER: I'm requesting it now, yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may be a little bit too 15 much power. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm reading. 17 MR. RUARK: That's what we have. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've got some other 19 dedicated funds. Where are they? 20 MS. PIEPER: I have my 41, the records archival. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 634? 22 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. In this, I had requested 23 13,650. However, I'd like to go ahead and utilize the 24 remaining money that we have in this 41 budget, plus utilize 25 the 28 funds. 8-6-08 bwk 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're requesting what, now, 2 Ms. Pieper? 3 MS. PIEPER: Well -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Your old records -- you had 5 requested 13,650. 6 MS. PIEPER: Yes. And that is a bill -- an 7 outstanding bill, basically, that I have. When eDoc came in 8 and scanned a bunch of our documents, we had a bunch of them 9 that were very distorted, and so, out of the kindness of his 10 heart, he went ahead and had his people scan those, because 11 we -- we had several index books that were just really bad. 12 So, I told him that in the next budget, that I would put this 13 in for that. 'Cause his -- his comment was basically, "Pay 14 me when you can." So -- 'cause he knew I was out of money. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. PIEPER: But we -- I still have money left. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But this is something he's going to, 18 quote, finalize in this coming budget year, correct? 19 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 21 MS. PIEPER: In following the statute, I have to do 22 -- to utilize this, I have to do -- I have to renew my 23 written plan, and we have to have a public hearing. In doing 24 so, I would like to utilize the money that's in our 28 25 account -- 28 fund, I believe -- what do you call it? Fund 8-6-08 bwk 12 1 account, records management money. And the money that I 2 still have in this fund, which is 28,884, utilize both of 3 those under my records archival plan for the coming budget. 4 Does that make sense? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure. But what numbers do 6 you want to change here? This is the dedicated fund, is it 7 not? 8 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you want to use Fund 28 and 11 41 for the same purpose? 12 MS. PIEPER: Combine them, yes, to bring -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Are those strictly County Clerk 14 funds, or is either one of those the one that's shared by -- 15 MS. PIEPER: The 28 fund is shared. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the District Clerk? 17 MS. PIEPER: Yes. And I -- I don't remember how -- 18 MS. HARGIS: She got 19,000. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think there's adequate funds 20 there. I don't see a problem with that. But -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fund 41, though, stays the way 22 we have it, and it's Fund 28 that we look to change, 'cause I 23 don't think -- Fund 28, right now that has 19,000. 24 MS. HARGIS: If I'm hearing her right, she wants to 25 use what's left in her cash account, which is about 28,000, 8-6-08 bwk 13 1 and in Fund 41 -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. HARGIS: And then I have to look at -- at Fund 4 28, because we gave Ms. Uecker 19,000, and the cash balance 5 -- I don't have it off the top of my head. 6 MS. UECKER: I've got it somewhere right here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're proposing to do is 8 use the remaining -- the remaining balance in 41, that's 9 strictly your records archival for the County Clerk's office, 10 and whatever that balance is, enter that on Line 411; is that 11 correct? 12 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. PIEPER: If we combine the two, I think there's 15 going to be, like, 77,000. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much do you have on -- she 17 has 13? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 13,650. 19 MS. HARGIS: In this 28, there's only 39 in it, and 20 then your new money -- all together, the new money that you 21 would get for the current year? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this a number that we're going to 23 have to extrapolate and just plug in later? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on, then. We 8-6-08 bwk 14 1 can't solve this problem here. You have one other -- 2 MS. PIEPER: No, sir, that's it. I used to have 3 the elections, but now the voter registrar has it, so as far 4 as my budget, that completes it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Any 6 questions for Ms. Pieper on any of these? Okay. Let's go to 7 Sheriff. Hold on, let's don't go to the Sheriff, then. 8 We'll go to -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go straight to jail. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can arrange that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bet. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff's Department. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is the Sheriff 14 on? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Four million, plus. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the biggest page in 17 the book. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yep -- nope -- yep, it did. 20 We break 4 million this year. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 53. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right there. Holy 23 mackerel, look at that number. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you want to reduce 101 to? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 101? Nope, sorry. 8-6-08 bwk 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't want to talk about that? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't want to reduce that at 3 all. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't believe you changed 6 anything on -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely I did. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For once, for the first year, 9 I don't believe you did, that I can see as of yesterday. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You've reviewed them very carefully? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless you snuck it in this 12 morning when I wasn't looking. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, I assure you, I didn't. If 14 I -- if I didn't change any of your figures, I apologize. 15 There must have been an oversight on my part. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's in the deputy 17 salaries? What's it up, 300,000 over current? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's 10 percent. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the 10 percent. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the 10 percent. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- here, again, I did -- when it 23 came to the personnel items, I didn't work that portion of 24 it. That's a whole separate -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All of this between the 8-6-08 bwk 16 1 Sheriff's Office and the jail, it's a total of right at a 2 400,000 increase. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. There are no new 4 deputies in that number? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No new deputies in that 6 number, okay? And that does -- the 400,000, I've got, what, 7 100 employees -- over 100, so over a third of the county. 8 So, the 10 percent is in that $400,000 increase. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I was thinking there was one new 10 deputy. 11 MS. HARGIS: We didn't put it in. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We did not add the new -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: At one time there was, though? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At one time -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- there was, yes, but we took 17 that all back out. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I wasn't dreaming, then. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, the restructuring, I got 20 a new patrol position, but if you remember, I killed a 21 sergeant position and created a patrol position. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So there is a new patrol 24 position. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8-6-08 bwk 17 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Radio equipment, that's -- 3 we're rolling that into another -- another budget somewhere? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, we're not. In doing some 5 research over that, that's 181,000 that I cut out on the 6 radios. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you get started, are 8 you going to slam D.P.S. on this thing, or should I go sit in 9 my truck or what? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not going to slam D.P.S.; 11 I don't have any problem with D.P.S. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may be a good time for us 13 to do that. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I -- no. I found out one 15 thing, is that there is no law that says we have to go 16 digital, period. It's not in existence. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You just can't communicate 18 with anybody. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's going to be -- that may 20 be true. Now, we do have to be narrow band capable by 2013, 21 all right? That will cost us, at today's price, about 50,000 22 on upgrading the -- the infrastructure, radio towers. All 23 our current radios that are manufactured are narrow band 24 capable, so the ones in the cars don't have to be replaced to 25 be in compliance. So, the only thing we have to do by 2015 8-6-08 bwk 18 1 -- '13 and '15 is we're going to have to upgrade $50,000 2 worth of stuff. Now, the other deal is, I do wish to start 3 gradually replacing my car radios with digital radios so that 4 we can communicate with the City. But at this point, if the 5 City flips that switch and they go digital, yes, it's going 6 to hurt us, okay? It's going to hurt them more. We back 7 them up a lot more than they back us up. I don't like it. 8 They can do both; they can monitor it. But I don't -- also 9 don't want to be forced into buying a more expensive radio 10 than I think the County needs to purchase, or going to a 11 system that we don't have to go to right now. And some of 12 the other research and some of the manufacturers and that 13 have even said at this point, if anybody goes totally 14 digital, they're really cutting off their nose to spite their 15 face. They're hurting themselves, because most systems are 16 staying VHF. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For a while. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Staying VHF. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For a while. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the foreseeable future, 21 period. There's no requirement to go digital. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the stuff that we had 23 talked -- or been hearing about that we had to do? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because, number one, I was 25 under the impression that we had to go digital too. We have 8-6-08 bwk 19 1 to go narrow band; we do not have to go digital. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you can't go narrow 3 band on analog. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, you can. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yep. Relicensing -- you're 7 redoing your license to get them narrow band, which I'm 8 already in the process of doing, okay, all our radio 9 licenses. Advantage is doing that. And the rest of it, 10 we're -- you know, besides the 50,000 to reconfigure the 11 tower situation and the microwaves and that and address that, 12 we're going to be in compliance with state law and with 13 federal law. But our problem is, we will need to change our 14 radios to digital so that we can stay in communication with 15 K.P.D., but I don't think we should be forced into it 16 immediately at $181,000. As I buy new cars, as we purchase 17 new cars, we'll make sure that those cars have the digital 18 radios in them. 19 We are applying for a Homeland Security grant to 20 help do that. The one thing, if we want to do it to where at 21 least I've got one in each car, it's about $3,600 to put a 22 radio and a portable, okay? For one car radio and one 23 portable, that's what each one's going to have to take. And 24 I have 50 of them. That's where we came up with the 181,000. 25 But what I would recommend -- and next year I'll ask for it, 8-6-08 bwk 20 1 and some in the cars -- is that if I had 36,000, that's ten 2 of them, okay? Ten of them would give me some on every 3 single shift and with my investigators, so that somebody on 4 the shift could always hear the City. They can hear us; we 5 won't be able to hear them, is what the difference is. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the grant cycle 7 through AACOG for Homeland Security? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The end of this month, and my 9 chief deputy's working on it right now. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you asking for? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To get it turned in, we're 12 asking for -- to do it in three years, which is 60,000 a 13 year, is what they want. Okay? They want it staggered, so 14 we're asking for 60,000 each year through that Homeland 15 Security. I don't know whether we'll get it or not. You 16 know, the State got something like -- or this AACOG got 17 something like 22 million. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sergeant Cummins? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So we'll see. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What is your primary communication 21 now, digital or analog? 22 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Well, we have the ability to 23 hear both. We can communicate digital with our 24 communications in San Antonio, but we can also hear K.P.D. 25 and the Sheriff's Office. 8-6-08 bwk 21 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You can hear them. Can you -- 2 SERGEANT CUMMINS: And we can speak with them also. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if you need backup from our 4 S.O., you have the capability of calling for it? 5 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 7 SERGEANT CUMMINS: And I will tell you that a lot 8 of the troops are using that channel, and that -- for that 9 reason, because they would prefer that the Sheriff's Office 10 know where we're at. Because if we operate on our digital 11 channel, then they don't have any idea where we're at. So, 12 it's actually worked out really well. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You can hear them, but they can't 14 hear you? 15 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That was the reason I asked you the 17 question. 18 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Right. If we're operating on 19 our digital, they can't hear us, as far as I know. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's exactly right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So your guys have the capability, 22 and will have the capability for some time to come, to have 23 free communication with the S.O.? 24 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, as far as I'm concerned. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good enough. 8-6-08 bwk 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like what I'm hearing from 2 the Sheriff; I think it makes sense. Let's not rush out and 3 spend a bunch of money. And if AACOG gets the grant through 4 Homeland Security, we can do it over the next couple years, 5 and, you know, that's -- and it's a City decision to do what 6 they want to do. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, I have a couple of -- you 8 know, like our narcs, narcotics units that both work real 9 well together, and they go digital. Those -- I've got three 10 of them that I have digital radios in their cars, and that's 11 narcotics, so they have communication -- will have, digital, 12 with the city narcotics guys. They're the ones that have to 13 work closest together. But otherwise, the City can -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The whole thing that initially drove 15 this train was the understanding that there was a legal 16 mandate that you be digital by a given deadline, and it 17 turned out the only mandate was the -- was the narrow band. 18 But there is no legal mandate for -- for digital, and may 19 never be one; I don't know. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The process was, the City 21 also got a grant, so they just moved forward. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I see on here 23 really is the gas and oil budget. I don't believe that the 24 actual expenditure, based on historic, and also -- you know, 25 the price has gone up, but it's also starting to come down 8-6-08 bwk 23 1 some, and I believe you can cut 50,000 out of that one and 2 still be okay. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only thing I did 4 there -- and Bruce and I talked about this just a little bit. 5 If we average right at 4,000 gallons a month, in May we were 6 paying $3.63 a gallon. If we stay at the same number of 7 gallons per month -- and what I have figured as a cost for us 8 was $4.10 a gallon. That's what I estimated it for next 9 year, at $4.10 a gallon, 4,000 gallons a month. That's where 10 I'm coming up with the budgeted amount. Now, if we don't 11 think it -- you know, it's been going down like we've seen 12 lately. If we don't think it will hit 4.10, if we want to 13 figure it at -- at 4, or 3.90 -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're paying -- if you're 15 going to pay 4.10 a gallon, that means the rest of us are 16 going to pay about 4.50, 4.40, and that has not reached that 17 point, anywhere close to that. 'Cause you're not paying the 18 tax. So, I really think that's a little inflated over what 19 it could be, based on last year's expenditures, 'cause we 20 went from basically paying three and a quarter up to paying 21 $4.05 or something, 4.15. That doesn't count Jonathan's 22 diesel pickup. You know, it -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't have any diesel. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: At 3.50, it comes out 168,000. You 25 might want to -- 8-6-08 bwk 24 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 3.50? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You might want to possibly drop that 3 to 175. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At 3.50? See, we paid 3.63; I 5 don't see it going down to 3.50. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would say 3.90 or so, maybe. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you don't got to -- 9 remember, you're not paying the tax, so whatever the price 10 is, your price is 38 cents less. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I paid 3.63 in May. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In May, but -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- it's coming down. I 15 don't think -- I tend to agree with Bruce; it's not going to 16 average that high, I don't think. I think 175 should be 17 plenty. And if it -- you know, make an adjustment. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If I get half what I asked 19 for, I feel like I've done pretty well. 20 MR. RUARK: What price per gallon? That's the way 21 we've got this set up, so he's got it at 4.10. That's the 22 way -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put it at 3.78. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And see what happens. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And see what happens. 8-6-08 bwk 25 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See what it comes in at. 2 MR. RUARK: 181. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Just kill the detail. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's 177 on gas. 4,000 is 5 on -- 3.65. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Delete the detail and just put 7 in 175. 8 MR. RUARK: Well, I can fix it here in a minute. 9 Six of one, half a dozen of another. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have to remember, that's 11 also oil -- that's gas and oil. That's all our oil changes. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should we not -- should 13 there not be an adjustment on all others that have a gasoline 14 increase if we're using that rationale for the Sheriff? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends on -- I don't know that 16 everyone -- everyone used probably a little bit different 17 number. 18 (Discussion off the record.) 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you add 38 cents to that, 20 that would be up to what we'd be paying. He's not paying 21 tax. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only other part -- I think 24 we really need to look at Road and Bridge to see what they 25 used. 8-6-08 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Road and Bridge, Animal 2 Control, and -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Constables. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Constables too. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental Health. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want to terribly 9 overbudget funds for -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we want to cover them. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We want to cover them, but we 12 don't want to inflate that to the point to where it wouldn't 13 be realistic. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: What did we do, Ken? 16 MR. RUARK: I reduced it to 3.65 a gallon, which 17 makes the gasoline $175,200. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Just change the detail? 19 MR. RUARK: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You use a fine pencil. I 21 like working round figures close enough. 22 MR. RUARK: There's what it is right up there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Close enough for government 25 work? 8-6-08 bwk 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ready for the jail? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before we go to the jail, 3 Judge -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mark Del Toro is here from 6 911, and we were talking about the Reverse 911, and I asked 7 them to visit with us this morning when the Sheriff has his 8 budget up in front of us. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, great. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce and I have been 11 working on that. Mark's going to tell us a little bit about 12 the proposals and the amount, give us an estimate of what the 13 amount would be -- 14 MR. DEL TORO: Good morning, gentlemen. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- if the County did it on 16 its own. 17 MR. DEL TORO: Well, back in -- back in May, 18 Mr. Amerine and myself put together this emergency 19 notification systems proposal package. I'm sure each one of 20 you received one. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know Commissioner Oehler 22 and I have both seen it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 24 MR. DEL TORO: And it outlined the three companies 25 that provide the service. The first one that we have 8-6-08 bwk 28 1 outlined is 3n Communications, and they came out $44,000 per 2 year, unlimited use. Second was WARN out of Austin, $33,000 3 a year with 12 and a half cents per call cost. And then 4 Connect-CTY, they had broken out the price two ways, 5 city-only or county-only. County-only was 23,400 with 6 unlimited use. City-only was 10,000 with unlimited use. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County-only would only be the 8 individuals living in the county? 9 MR. DEL TORO: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those not living in the city. 11 MR. DEL TORO: Not living within the city limits of 12 Kerrville. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if you add those two, it's 14 30 -- 15 MR. DEL TORO: It's 33,800. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There wouldn't be any 17 economy of scale by combining the two? 18 MR. DEL TORO: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's unlimited use? 21 MR. DEL TORO: Unlimited use. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the 44,000, the 33, this 23 one, or the -- 24 MR. DEL TORO: Unlimited use. With your WARN 25 system at 12 and a half cents a call, it's going to cost. 8-6-08 bwk 29 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cost. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a per-call cost on 3 this last one? 4 MR. DEL TORO: No, sir. All calls are -- they're 5 all -- it's all-inclusive, all unlimited calls. Now, you're 6 going to have to look at each one of them, look at the 7 features that they offer and base your decision upon your 8 needs. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'd have actually gone out 10 for a bid, but for budgeting purposes, this would give you 11 the best -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Attorney says we can 13 do an RFP. 14 MR. DEL TORO: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: RFP or RFQ. 16 MR. DEL TORO: That was one of our concerns there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Request for proposal. 18 MR. DEL TORO: If you look back in the proposal, 19 one of the problems that we foresaw with one of the vendors 20 is they were going to get their GIS data from a commercial 21 source. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 23 MR. DEL TORO: And that's typically invalid data 24 for our area, because it's based off specific distances -- 25 house distances within the city limits, or even out in the 8-6-08 bwk 30 1 county, and when they go to map those addresses to make those 2 phone calls, they're going to miss some citizens. So, our 3 role in this is that we will support whatever company that 4 you go with, and we will give them -- provide them our data. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give more accurate data? 6 MR. DEL TORO: Correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Including this third 8 one you're talking about? 9 MR. DEL TORO: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MR. DEL TORO: We will push for them -- if that's 12 who you choose, we will push -- push our data upon them. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these single-year 14 contracts? 15 MR. DEL TORO: They are single-year contracts. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could we get a grant for this 17 for one year to try and it see how it works out if we need 18 to? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did you have in mind? 20 From whom? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: AACOG. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, okay. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're trying to get that grant 24 already through the radio stuff. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I can make 8-6-08 bwk 31 1 an inquiry. The question is, do we want to plug it in? 2 Whether we get it or not is another matter, or if we refine 3 it, or if we seek some involvement from the City -- financial 4 involvement from the City. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one addition I will add to 6 this, and it's not plugged in anywhere, is that under the -- 7 the county-wide City/County Emergency Management Plan, the 8 Sheriff's Department duty, the Sheriff's duty is warning for 9 everybody. That does fall solely under the Sheriff's 10 Department. Whether it happens in the city or not, the 11 getting out warning notices and that under the emergency 12 management plan is the Sheriff's Department duty. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: May be something we want to bring to 14 somebody's attention this afternoon. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe an option this afternoon 16 is to split it fifty-fifty this year, first year trial, and 17 then if it -- if it's worthwhile and being used, the County 18 pick it up in the future. It's not a huge dollar figure; I 19 don't see anyone trying to go back and forth. I don't think 20 it's a big deal, but I would like to -- if they don't have 21 interest in even checking it out, that says something. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In the meetings that we've had 23 and everything with them, the City has been very willing, and 24 wants -- at least from the Chief of Police and their captain 25 and them, they want to -- to do this with one of these 8-6-08 bwk 32 1 vendors, whoever it is, and go half-and-half with the County 2 on getting this type of system. Because we all know what the 3 -- what the need is for it during emergency situations. So, 4 I think talking to them this afternoon, you know, each 5 department, each agency budgeting half of it may be a doable 6 deal. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think -- I believe it's an 8 important thing, especially whenever you do have emergency 9 situations, and here, it's floods and fires, basically. And 10 if you can -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So many -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- block off an area, they 13 can be notified within a very, very short time. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are so many other 15 uses that are vital or could be important to the community at 16 large that that could be used for. So, total number would be 17 what, Mark? 44? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 33. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 33,000, 35,000. 20 MR. DEL TORO: Yeah. Well, 3n was 44,000. WARN 21 was 33,150, and then Connect-CTY total combined was 33,800. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thirty-three? 23 MR. DEL TORO: 33. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that's 16 and a half a 25 piece. 8-6-08 bwk 33 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. It's -- 2 MR. DEL TORO: Now, these are web-based services, 3 so there's no proprietary software that you have to purchase 4 and download and worry about upgrades. It's all kept over 5 the internet. And with, I believe, two of the three, you 6 have scalability as far as the users go. You can actually 7 set up different user groups and authorizations to do the 8 activations depending on what, say, departments within the 9 city or departments within the county. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whose budget would these go 11 under? Where would it go? Yours? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would assume. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Notification. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would assume it would have 16 to go in mine somewhere. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that was our thought. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to plug it in 19 at this point. We can bring it up this afternoon. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Plug 33 in here. If we get 21 16 and a half back, that's great. 22 MS. HARGIS: I think we'll create a new line item. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 'cause this is a 24 different -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Emergency Notification? 8-6-08 bwk 34 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Emergency Notification Contract, 2 probably. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We're plugging in 33 there. 4 MR. RUARK: She'll have to add that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mark, thank you for coming 7 over. We appreciate it. 8 MR. DEL TORO: Very well. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, are we ready to go to 11 jail? Over two and a half mil. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is jail on? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Biggest increases in jail are 14 to -- and, Judge, again, I think we finally agreed on here. 15 I don't see that you changed anything that I hadn't already 16 changed also. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is jail, Ken? 18 MR. RUARK: I'm getting there; hang on for just a 19 second. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't find the jail. We 21 lost the jail. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 42. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 42. I'm going the wrong 24 direction. 25 MR. RUARK: 42. Page 42. 8-6-08 bwk 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two of the biggest increases 2 are prisoner meal and prisoner medical. Now, the way it 3 shows on the budget is prisoner medical is -- should be 4 showing cut down. Let me see here. 5 MS. HARGIS: It's the contract. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You added that. It's got a 7 zero right now in it, okay. But under prisoner medical, are 8 we still showing the -- 9 MS. HARGIS: 30,000. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see your new 11 contract number in there. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it is. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's 340 -- Line Item 340. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Medical, from about close to 200 16 down to 30, and then -- are you going to need that 30? 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we will, because in 19 the contract, in reviewing, we're still negotiating the 20 bottom line of it, but there are some things that are out of 21 contract expenses. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Stop loss. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll have to have stop loss, 24 you know, a certain amount that they will pay for hospital -- 25 ones that are in the hospital, or specialists, or the 8-6-08 bwk 36 1 psychotropic drugs that M.H.M.R. has and all that kind of 2 stuff are not going to be in that contract. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But the savings occurs up in the 4 personnel. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The savings occurs 'cause we 6 are cutting five people out of personnel. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again -- remind me 8 of what we're putting in the contract line, though. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 298,000. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can read the number. Tell 11 me what kind of people. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is 82 hours a week that the 13 company, okay, CH -- I can't think of it right now. They do 14 Smith County and another county, and I've talked to both of 15 them; they wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. 16 They do all your medical stuff in your jail. They supply a 17 nurse on duty, they supply a doctor. They're all their 18 employees; they are contracted. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the doctor on call, or is 20 he at your place? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On call. Their medical 22 director's on call. They're stationed out of Denver, mainly, 23 but they have -- have a lot of different -- I could have 24 brought that. I have it out in the car, Buster. I didn't 25 bring it in, but I'll let you see their deal. They have 8-6-08 bwk 37 1 $5 million liability insurance, which also as Rex will tell 2 you, and Frigerio will tell you, that is one of the biggest 3 benefits the County has, because our biggest lawsuit stuff is 4 inmate medical. And our current doctor doesn't have a 5 contract with us, so the County's totally liable for 6 everything, where this company is a buffer between us and -- 7 and inmates. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do they contract locally 9 with the doctor? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what they do? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. They contract locally; 13 they hire all their people locally, and then it's their 14 employees. In fact, they're probably going to hire my -- if 15 you'll look at personnel expenses right now, I have not 16 replaced or hired any so that we wouldn't be laying off a 17 bunch of people, since it's cutting five positions. I only 18 have one current position, my EMT, right now, and he's 19 working about 70 hours a week, and getting a lot in overtime. 20 But I would rather do that than hire someone and then go with 21 this company and have to lay them off in October. But, yes, 22 they contract with everybody and guarantee 82 hours a week in 23 the jail. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds good to me. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks to me like we're going 8-6-08 bwk 38 1 to be able to pull a bunch of money out of your jailer's 2 salary line item to fund more legal toward the end of the 3 year, because it has quite a balance in it, and it's even 4 been requested more, and the Judge has approved a whole lot 5 more than what was requested. What's the story on that 6 general line item? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: General line item, I just now 8 filled four positions. That's one reason, okay? On jailers. 9 This also has the 10 percent in it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me address that, Commissioner. 11 As I've indicated, I don't -- I don't tinker around with the 12 salary items. The clear understanding is, if this contract 13 for medical services, all this medical thing is approved, 14 then he pulls these people out of the personnel item. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're already pulled out. 16 MS. HYDE: They're already pulled. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the people you pull out more 18 than offset the amount of contract when you figure all the 19 rollups. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. I'm talking about -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Without regard to the supplies and 22 the liability issues and a bunch of other things. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not on the jailer line 24 item. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. 8-6-08 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just strictly on the 2 jailer -- jailer salaries, and it shows here that -- that the 3 current budget is 802,000. Year-to-date, 604; projected 4 year-end, 752; budget request, 857; administrative 5 recommendation, 982,000. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What that is -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that is way up from what 8 the actual projected -- actual year-end is going to be by, 9 you know, $220,000. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What that is, Bruce -- and 11 y'all can put whatever figure. That is if I have every 12 position that I have filled, -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- 365 days, and the 15 10 percent salary increase for all the employees. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that, but it 17 just seems like that that's a -- that's a lot of increase 18 right there over past history. I mean, we've had enough -- 19 there's been enough staff approved and paid to run that jail. 20 It has been done. We haven't been out of compliance, 21 correct? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you look at my overtime, 23 you look at my turnover, you look at -- no, we're not out of 24 compliance; I always try and make sure we aren't. But what 25 I'm talking about is burnout, turnover. I'm not asking for a 8-6-08 bwk 40 1 new position. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. I'm just 3 talking about this -- that's a lot of money. That's a lot of 4 increase in this over last year. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take a look at the current 7 752, and you said you -- you just added four positions -- or 8 filled four positions that had not been filled this far into 9 the budget year. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I still have -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, four times what, 40? 12 160,000? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I still have two 14 positions. We've been hurting in the jail. I have totally 15 worn out people. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess my point is that 17 those four would put you over your current budget right now. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's -- the salary's 19 29,000. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Salary's 28,000, 29,000. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, with the rollups -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, but they're in different 24 line items. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis Or Ms. Hyde, whoever has 8-6-08 bwk 41 1 the answer to this question, how did 982,000 end up in the 2 104 account? 3 MS. HARGIS: That has the proposed increase in it, 4 and it is fully staffed. And he has not been fully staffed 5 this year; he's been running at least four, and even -- 6 what's that statistic? 7 MS. HYDE: Two to three. It's, like, 2.6. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So -- 9 MS. HYDE: And when I say 2.6 -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 802 -- 803, essentially, this 11 current year's budget, was based upon fully staffed. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Should have been. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is every year. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And so the 802 went to 982 on the 16 same number of jailers staffing; is that correct? 17 MS. HYDE: I just want to put a little push in 18 there just to make sure. When we gave that -- and let's 19 clarify the thing. When we gave it, we had the five people 20 that were approved by the Court in the hospital. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the nurses. That's cut 22 out. 23 MS. HYDE: The nurses. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a different line. 25 MS. HYDE: And so that's the only thing, as far as 8-6-08 bwk 42 1 the jailer line item. He did not increase; it's exactly what 2 it was. It's how many he's supposed to have. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, the 804 -- the 4 current budget, 802, and you take 10 percent of that for 5 salary increase, that makes that 880, somewhere in the 6 neighborhood. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then you also have -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is my math screwed up or 9 what? That's 880, approximately. Well, that still -- what 10 is the in the recommended is $100,000 more than that. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know where they got 12 the recommended, but the other increases you will have in 13 that is longevity and education. 14 MS. HYDE: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there are a few there, but I 16 don't see 100 grand worth. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is a big year for that. 18 I don't know how many I have in the jail. I know it is a big 19 year on the -- on the longevity and education. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two and a half percent onto 21 the individual's salary. Right, that's not 100 grand. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No. I acknowledge that, you know, 24 we're in -- we're in the third year. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 8-6-08 bwk 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Which means a lot of longevity 2 increases for longtime employees. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We started in '99. We had the 5 one-year, and then you had 2003, 2006, 2009, so this is going 6 to be a big year for that for long-term employees. 7 Traditionally, you won't have long-term employees as jailers. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, 850 -- we requested 857, 9 okay? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's more like it. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, that is with the 12 longevity -- with the longevity and educational, and with 13 fully staffed. Now, you would have to add 10 percent to it, 14 10 percent on the 857. Now, if you add 10 percent to the 15 857, I don't know what you get. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's still -- that's 17 85,000, so you're up to -- you're up to 923 -- 925. But 18 we're still at 982 over there. You're still -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just saying, Bruce, what I 20 would -- what I requested was 857. Add 10 percent to that, 21 and you should be able to come up with what the salary line 22 item should be. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That recommended needs to be 24 busted down to whatever that number is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's get back to the 8-6-08 bwk 44 1 Judge's question. Where did the 982 come from? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Obviously, -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't put it in there. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- it did not come from him. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Obviously, it did not. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So where did it come from? 8 Nobody's going to cough it up, so let's put it back to 857. 9 MS. HYDE: We're adding numbers to give you a 10 better number. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all work on that, because I don't 12 know where that number came from. I didn't put it in there, 13 and I don't -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, best Kerr County figure 15 ciphering. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ciphering. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that what it is? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's some pretty good 19 ciphering. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Maybe we just added about ten 21 defense attorneys in there too, 'cause that's going to be 22 where it goes at the end of the year. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That number -- that's okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's an honest budget. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's probably where it is. 8-6-08 bwk 45 1 I don't know. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lawyers get it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you saying it's -- the 4 requested number of 857 did not include 10 percent? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The requested number, the 857, 6 does not include the 10 percent. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It includes the longevity and 9 education. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Education. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? So, if you add 12 10 percent to the 857, you would get what it should be fully 13 staffed. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're going to get up there 15 real close to what I was talking about. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I would say. 17 MR. RUARK: Apparently, they're checking the 18 numbers. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're huddling in there, 20 so -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And that, of course, will affect all 22 the rollups and whatnot. But -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it could. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's deal with whatever else 25 you've got here, Sheriff. 8-6-08 bwk 46 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. The other things 2 that the -- one of the big deals that you will see, and gas 3 prices has a whole lot to do with this, is my increase in 4 prisoner meals. This current budget, we had asked for 5 190,000. There was an expected -- wrong line. They're 6 expecting projected end of year is 174,000, but I had 7 budgeted in 252,000. Now, the reason I did that, last 8 month -- when we first started this year, our meal cost was 9 -- let me just read you under my notes here; you can read the 10 notes that I put in there, if you have them, on how we came 11 to that cost. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Peanut butter went up? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everything went up. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We're figuring 2.80 a day. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here comes the conference 16 back. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 18 MS. HYDE: This is -- this is -- right there is 19 what we did. And we checked it and double-checked it and 20 triple-checked it, and this is correct. And from this, 21 Ms. Hargis took -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It doesn't look right to me. 23 MS. HYDE: I know. I know, but he has got -- in 24 this year, we have got over half the staff that's going to 25 have longevity, and they're getting their education. 8-6-08 bwk 47 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was supposed to be 2 included in the 857. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then you add 10 percent to 5 that, and that does not come up to 982. 6 MS. HARGIS: The -- not all the education things 7 were in the 857, because he didn't have them at that point. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 9 MS. HARGIS: I didn't have them. I mean, Rusty -- 10 MS. HYDE: They're in here. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They are -- they should be in 12 the 857, gentlemen, and have 10 percent added on that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You believe you put it in 14 the 857? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir. 16 MS. HYDE: 'Cause we base it off of this, and 17 that's the position schedule. And this is with -- just what 18 he has, their education and their longevities, and so then we 19 had to turn around and we did the steps. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Added 10 on top? 21 MS. HYDE: Right. So, really, they're getting 22 double-banged, so it's going to be more than 10 percent. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you -- would y'all put 24 together a composite calculation and furnish that to us so 25 that we can analyze it? I'd sure appreciate it. 8-6-08 bwk 48 1 MS. HYDE: On just the jail? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, jailer salaries. That's 3 what... Okay, Sheriff, you're looking at 2.80 a day on your 4 meals? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. As of June, our average 6 meal cost was $1.40, okay? Wait a minute, let me get this 7 increase -- average of a hundred -- I left the average number 8 of inmates at 163. And we -- of course, we do fix some meals 9 for JDC, not all of them. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why you've got an income item 11 that's going to partially offset some of this. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The JDC meals. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it goes into the general 15 fund; it's not going to come to me. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I'm saying is, your cost 17 of preparing those meals is included in your 252? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: JDC budgets a certain amount for 20 their residents' meals. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which isn't much. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And that goes into the general fund, 25 which has an offset effect, so that's not your total cost 8-6-08 bwk 49 1 that we're talking about. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, what it was is right now, 5 we're averaging $1.37 a meal. What I figured this cost at -- 6 and this was in June, we were averaging $1.57, 'cause 7 everything had gone up. What I figured it at for the year 8 was $1.40 -- at $1.40, with an average number of inmates 163, 9 and you start adding three meals a day and then a few more 10 for JDC and a few for the employees that have to eat there, 11 it ended up being the 252,000. And I don't know where that 12 -- I mean, you can budget -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if we, you know, happen to 14 get lucky and get our costs less, we're doing great. But if 15 not, that's where -- in this calculation and this detail, 16 that's where it comes out at. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the same charge you -- 18 the same charge that we apply to the Juvenile Detention 19 Facility for meals? Actual? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Actually, I did it at 2.80. 21 All their costs are in there. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Your cost per meal? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Meal cost. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same meals; we don't fix them 25 any different. 8-6-08 bwk 50 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Your cost per meal went up 2 from what to what? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let's see. And I looked. It 4 looks like -- 5 MR. RUARK: We used 2.80. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, the reason you're 7 seeing -- it shows 2.80 up there. My cost now is $1.37; I 8 figured it at $1.40. The reason you show 2.80 up there, if 9 you get into the number of meals that we serve total for the 10 year, it's 180,000, but up there where it says "Quantity, 11 90,000," the computer program won't allow me to put in 12 180,000, 'cause it has too many zeros in it, so I had to cut 13 it in half and double the cost on the detail to show where 14 that is. 15 MR. RUARK: It won't do it; he's right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So you come up to the -- to the 17 initial raw number for your inmates of 216. That was the 18 initial request. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And then you add to that JDC. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And your staff that's on duty during 23 mealtime, and that's how you get the 252, the additional 24 meals. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 8-6-08 bwk 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At a unit cost of 1.40 per 3 meal? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which I honestly think is a 7 very good per-meal cost that my staff does. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just have a hard time 9 believing that 3 cents more a meal, basically 9 cents a day, 10 is going to equal out to a $70,000 increase in meals, 35 11 percent increase for one year. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, there's a big difference 13 there. Last year we figured it at 149 inmates, and we were 14 paying, at the beginning of last year, $1.20 a meal, all 15 right? So, your average daily population has gone up over 16 20, and your meal cost has gone up over 20 cents. That is -- 17 and that's where you get the large increase from. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If he's got some fluff in there, 19 it's -- it's in the excess for the JDC, and the -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just see the big increase. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And there could be a little 22 bit of fluff. Could be a little excess in there for JDC, 23 because, you know, they -- number one, I didn't -- I figured 24 this in round numbers. Two is that once school starts back 25 up, they get the breakfast, and lunch -- and I don't know if 8-6-08 bwk 52 1 he's in here -- lunch is served by the school, 'cause they're 2 on the school program, so I cut those out. It's summertime 3 that we serve them all. Plus, I think their inspector came 4 in last month or something, and because of the way we -- we 5 fix meals, they come over and get them, and they were serving 6 them inside their cells. I think the State told them now 7 they can't serve their meals inside their cells to their 8 kiddies; they have to have them all together or something, so 9 now they're having to -- to furnish breakfast for them 10 themselves. So, that cut our breakfast meal out, so there -- 11 there could be some give in there for the JDC amount. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But you just look at the number and 13 it kind of gives you a jolt, doesn't it? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm doing. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It gave me a jolt too, Bruce, 16 believe me, when I plugged it in. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I figure everybody else got 18 the jolt. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unfortunately, you know, our 20 department, when you talk gas and food, it really hit us 21 hard. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe you need to carpool. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Carpool the -- get smart cars? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hire some drones and drive them 25 around. 8-6-08 bwk 53 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peanut butter and jelly 3 sandwiches. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd love to. Unfortunately, 5 meals have to be dietitian-approved, and the number of 6 calories and nutrients. I don't have a choice. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Volkswagens may on be on 8 their way as Sheriff's cars. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is one thing we -- just 10 talking real quick, 'cause that reminded me, I have in this 11 budget, in the Sheriff's Department, two cars, okay? I cut 12 it from a request of five down to two, because I can do it. 13 Cutting it down to two -- and if it helps get the 10 percent 14 increase, I would even cut those out if it had to be. The 15 only problem that will do is, if I cut even the last two out, 16 even -- even only asking for two, next year I will be having 17 to ask for between five and six at least, 'cause I will have 18 them with over 200,000 miles. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd keep the two in. We don't 20 need to -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't want to get too 22 drastic in there. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just not two Tahoes. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, these are L.T.D.'s. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course, they're cheap 8-6-08 bwk 54 1 right now. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they are. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're actually just about as 4 cheap as the L.T.D.'s are, and they actually get a little bit 5 better gas mileage than the L.T.D.'s. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Sheriff? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not unless y'all have any 8 other questions. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for the Sheriff 10 from anybody on the Court? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, not me. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't -- you have 13 courthouse security also, don't you, Sheriff? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I did not change that at 15 all. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't think it did. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's some salary -- I 18 didn't bring that one with me. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The only change here, other than the 20 10 percent salary increase or any longevity, is 21 cost-of-living. That's it. What's the account on the 22 courthouse security? 23 MR. RUARK: 29-636. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 29? 25 MR. RUARK: 29-636, and then I'll get to the -- 8-6-08 bwk 55 1 MS. HARGIS: It's Fund 29. 2 MR. RUARK: Yeah. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 MR. RUARK: 115. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 116, Expenses. Why does your 7 computer cut off so often? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just a habit I got 9 into. I'm saving -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Saving energy. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Saving energy for Rusty. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Nothing there? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Now, with all the 14 addition of the camera system and that, I think we've done 15 excellent this year. That grant was -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When is the courthouse security 17 system due to be totally up and functional? I know we got 18 some sort of tests and shakedown occurring here pretty quick. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have been having several 20 tests and shakedowns, and half the time we can't even get in 21 our own door out at the Sheriff's Office, because it 22 basically locks at night and won't let us in. I have 23 ordered -- they may have come in yesterday -- more of the 24 automatic passes to get in the doors. Once we get those, 25 then I will start getting with all the department heads, see 8-6-08 bwk 56 1 who actually has to have access to this courthouse. I have a 2 problem right now with the way the security is. I think just 3 about every employee -- just real close to every single 4 employee of this courthouse has a key to the courthouse, and 5 I don't think that's necessary. I don't think there's any 6 reason for it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I would agree with you. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, we're going to do away 9 with a lot of that. I'm hoping for the department heads' 10 cooperation in that. We'll get with them, issue the 11 identification badges that we're going to do that has 12 everybody's picture on it and that they're an employee of 13 whatever department, and then we will also be programming the 14 electronic entry passes or little keyring, whichever one. 15 And once I get all that up and going, then we will have kind 16 of an open house so that we can show everybody how the system 17 works. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a -- a plan to require 19 employees to wear those ID cards? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't decided whether I'm 21 going to require them to wear them, or at least to have them 22 available. 'Cause our biggest deal is, I need to know at 23 weekends, things like that, whenever somebody is up here, and 24 our officers do a security check and they come, I want them 25 to be able to prove that these people are employees. 8-6-08 bwk 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just thinking, it may not 2 be a bad idea -- I mean, people around in the -- especially 3 more in the upstairs, in the courts, if someone doesn't have 4 a badge on, they probably shouldn't be back in that area, and 5 it would be a good check for people up there to know that, 6 you know, hey -- at least any courthouse security. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With having two people here 8 all the time, Charlie and Chuck pretty well know all the 9 employees, but there are a lot of changes, just like in mine. 10 So, it may be we're going to work on a whole lot of the 11 different security issues around the courthouse. I think 12 things have to be changed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: While I personally wouldn't 14 like it, I think it would be a good idea for everyone to wear 15 it in the courthouse. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will keep that in mind when 17 we're developing the policy. But hopefully within the next 18 few weeks, we can have -- next couple of weeks, I think. 19 Just takes a while to get the cards programmed. Each one has 20 a serial number and is programmed, and it goes to a certain 21 person, and if that person leaves employment or quits or 22 whatever, they're going to be -- the department head's going 23 to be required to collect that card back so we can reuse it, 24 or I'm going to have to start charging some dollars for those 25 things. 8-6-08 bwk 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: When that individual enters or 2 leaves the courthouse, that information is recorded as to 3 who -- who it was. And, of course, the camera's going to 4 record it anyway, so you got two different sources of 5 information. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The thing is, not every door 7 will have it, as you know. The front doors, these glass 8 doors on the side here do not have that keyless entry, okay? 9 Only the one push-open door, emergency door on the other side 10 of the elevator is the first door that has it. Because -- 11 and the reason is, after 8:00 in the morning, the courthouse 12 should be unlocked and opened all the time anyhow. It's the 13 other times when people are coming and going. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about -- so all the locks 15 will be removed from the other doors? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: From the other doors? They 17 will either be removed or, like, in a push-bar door, what you 18 do is you -- there's an allen wrench that locks that lock 19 open, so you don't have to have a lock on it. And, no, they 20 will -- the locks will be not functional, because it will all 21 be done by that electronic deal. Now, the other issue we've 22 got to do -- and I got to looking at this, and I thought 23 about it, and I need to get with the fire department. The 24 fire department has a key box out here, okay? And I don't 25 know when or how long or if -- because the courthouse keys, 8-6-08 bwk 59 1 you know, different maintenance people have changed keys, 2 changed locks, and I'm not sure if the fire department can 3 get into this thing. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They could if they needed to. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But what -- well, yeah. I 6 mean, we can get them in, but I don't think that is probably 7 accurate. But what I will probably do is issue one of those 8 cards for them, because we can set up those cards to open 9 only a certain door, every door that's, you know, set that 10 way, or -- or however I want to do it. And so we will set 11 that one up for the fire department that it will open all the 12 doors that they can possibly get into at one time. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Question. Is there a 14 longevity increase in salary? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There probably is. I'd have 16 to go back and look at that. You're talking two employees. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Otherwise, their numbers 18 don't add up once again. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There very well could be a 20 longevity increase. 21 MS. HYDE: Which one? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On the courthouse security. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On either Chuck or Charlie. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If there's a longevity in 25 there, that would add up, but otherwise -- 8-6-08 bwk 60 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, we have a longevity. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That was my question, 3 thank you. 4 MS. HYDE: You're welcome. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know it sounds like I'm 7 picking on you, but I'm really not. I'm just looking at the 8 number. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't have a problem at all. 10 Like I said, all that does is end up going to the defense 11 attorneys at the end of the year anyhow, which I'm not that 12 much for, so the more you can cut out of that, keep more of 13 that, Bruce -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for the Sheriff? 15 Okay. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Where's D.P.S. on all of this? 18 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 19 MR. RUARK: 580. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page, Jon? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 580. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's Fund 580. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Fund 580, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is that, Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 62. 8-6-08 bwk 61 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His pages are different. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I got a -- of course, I go to 4 the beat of a different drummer anyways. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're probably three pages 6 behind. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The question you're asking? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm always a little bit 9 unclear. 10 MR. RUARK: You want to reload that report? We can 11 do that; you can be on the same page. Well, it's really on 12 62. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 62? 14 MR. RUARK: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've got Emergency Health 16 Services. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's Fund 580. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was doing a 19 while ago. I got to 580, it had something else. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Sergeant Cummins, come on up here. 21 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll put you on the whipping post 23 for a while. How's that? 24 SERGEANT CUMMINS: That's great. Should be real 25 quick. 8-6-08 bwk 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you see that I reduced your 2 operating equipment request? 3 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, I did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you understand why I did that? 5 SERGEANT CUMMINS: No, sir, but that's fine. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me explain it to you. 7 SERGEANT CUMMINS: I think that's great. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm looking that you were budgeted 9 $1,500 for this year. 10 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And to-date, I don't show any 12 expenditures. 13 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is -- is there some reason you 15 haven't -- have you got a bunch of stuff pending that you're 16 fixing to make happen? Or -- 17 SERGEANT CUMMINS: A few things I've got some ideas 18 for, yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 SERGEANT CUMMINS: But I would say that you're 21 probably right; there's going to be some money left in that 22 fund. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, now that will 24 disappear. 25 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Sure. 8-6-08 bwk 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And we'll start again with the 2 1,500, the way I propose it. 3 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir, and that's fine. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that something that's workable 5 for you? 6 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir, that's fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Then it looks like we got no issue, 8 right? 9 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Not at all. It looks good. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was quick and easy. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for the good sergeant? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess a question for 13 you all. The -- the secretary salary. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, that was for Commissioner 15 Oehler to bring up, remember? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's his turn. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry, Bruce, I didn't mean 19 to step in there. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's tag team. Go at it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Well, why in the 22 hell did this thing drop from 29 to 27? Who did it? Up 23 against the wall. 24 SERGEANT CUMMINS: I thought it increased. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It increased from 27 to 29. 8-6-08 bwk 64 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Administration recommended 2 is 27. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not what's on mine. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mine's -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Projected year-end is 27,6. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The recommended is 30,563. 7 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Which is more than I 8 recommended. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We sure don't want to do 10 anything that you -- 11 SERGEANT CUMMINS: But I appreciate that. That's 12 great. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You requested 29,816, and 14 Administration Recommended is 27,688. 15 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Recommended is 30 -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why am I sitting here with 17 this thing? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. You're on 19 the wrong page. 30,563 is Administration Recommended. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 30,563. 22 MS. HYDE: That's what he said. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The wrong year, maybe. 24 MS. HARGIS: You have the wrong one up. Department 25 of Public Safety? 8-6-08 bwk 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You have plugged in 30,563, or 2 you -- you or the Auditor, or the combination of the two of 3 you. Okay. 4 MS. HYDE: That includes the increase -- the 5 proposed increase. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MS. HYDE: That's why it would go up. But, of 8 course, if he doesn't want to give her the proposed increase, 9 then we can take it down. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't hear the sergeant -- 11 SERGEANT CUMMINS: No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- raising an issue about it. 13 SERGEANT CUMMINS: I'd be run out of town if I did 14 that, so -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's kind of like messing 16 with the cook. 17 SERGEANT CUMMINS: That's something you don't want 18 to do. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is yours just a computer issue, 21 Commissioner Baldwin? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I'm in the wrong -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sergeant. 24 Appreciate it. 25 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir. Thank y'all. 8-6-08 bwk 66 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't skip them on purpose. I 3 apologize to Ms. Lavender. Doggone it. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did you jump over her? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I jumped over Ms. Lavender. Get me 6 in trouble. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's try and see if we can 8 find this one in record time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you know what -- 10 MR. RUARK: It's Page 22, if you're on the -- we're 11 all on the same -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we're all on the same -- 13 MR. RUARK: Report, yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be doggone. 16 MR. RUARK: It's 10-438 is the account number. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got it. 19 MS. LAVENDER: Everybody find it? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks pretty -- pretty plain 21 vanilla. 22 MS. LAVENDER: Plain vanilla. I would say to you 23 that this will be -- or is at the beginning of the fourth 24 year of this federal Victims of Crime Act grant that funds 25 80 percent of this program. The only hangup this year is the 8-6-08 bwk 67 1 Congress has not appropriated the funding for the Victims of 2 Crime Act money for 2008-2009, and the last communique I had 3 from the governor's office was that it's hung up in Congress. 4 Congress is on vacation. The grant started the 1st day of 5 July, so it's August the 6th, and they're on vacation. They 6 did, before they left for vacation, request from 50 states a 7 proposal for funding, so once that's approved, the funding is 8 approved, it comes back to the governor's office. The 9 governor's office then has to dole all the money out to all 10 the different COGS around the state of Texas. 11 So, gentlemen, I have no idea what the status of 12 this is. It's in the budget. It's been in the budget ever 13 since the program began. Judge Tinley and I talked about it. 14 We are going to assume that the funding is going to be 15 granted. We were in the top six in the COG ranking this 16 year. Kids Advocacy Place and Hill Country Crisis Council or 17 Hill Country CARES are in exactly the same position we are 18 right now; their funding stream is considerably larger than 19 ours. That's VOCA money, and they are going to be in a world 20 of hurt much quicker than -- than we would be if they don't 21 get the funds released for their programs. But right now, 22 what -- what the County is funding out of my budget is travel 23 and health insurance, and we put more in the health insurance 24 in the grant application than what it's actually going to 25 cost, so we're cool with that. I asked for $600 for local 8-6-08 bwk 68 1 travel, because last year I made a lot of trips to AACOG back 2 and forth. This year, AACOG has awakened to the gas crisis, 3 and have -- they've canceled the meetings, and so I'm 4 willing, if you'd like for me to, to return to you some of 5 that $600. If you'd like to reduce that line item down to 6 $250, I think three trips to AACOG is about what $250 will 7 pay for. And I know that's not much, but maybe you can find 8 something to do with that other $350. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can assure you. Thank you. 10 MS. LAVENDER: Maybe somebody else can use it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- this is more for the 12 Auditor. We probably should change that to not say "local 13 mileage," 'cause it isn't local mileage. It's going to San 14 Antonio. 15 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Out-of-county mileage. It says 17 local. 18 MS. LAVENDER: The problem is, you can't use grant 19 money to get more grant money, and so that's the reason we 20 separated that out. I would tell you also that we have our 21 first community planning meeting Friday morning at 9:30 to 22 begin the cycle for doing the community plan again for the 23 grant applications for this year through AACOG. And they 24 have taken homeland security out of the community plan now, 25 and it's being done separately. So, our community plan will 8-6-08 bwk 69 1 be a little bit different this year than it has been in years 2 past. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's my opinion that 4 we need to go ahead and approve -- include this whole budget 5 in, and if we don't get -- if the federal folks don't send us 6 our own money, then we need to -- the County needs to fund it 7 for at least a year to complete what we have started. 8 MS. LAVENDER: Since we're already three months 9 into the -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we've committed to. 11 MS. LAVENDER: I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think there's no 13 question but that Ms. Lavender is more than earning her keep. 14 Was it last month or month before last? We had a tragic 15 situation out in Ingram that we would have been faced with a 16 lot of transportation and autopsy expense, possibly pauper 17 remains disposition. All of that, she managed to get funded 18 through the Crime Victims from the state, which saved us from 19 having to. That's one example. Then there are a number of 20 other instances where there have been medical costs in 21 connection with -- with crime victims that we would have 22 otherwise had to roll into our indigent health care and 23 absorb that she's managed to get. So, grant funding is -- is 24 just an additional plus, but I think what we're saving by her 25 actions here in crime victims is more than what's in this 8-6-08 bwk 70 1 budget by a long shot. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 3 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah. Year before last, we got 4 $270,000 from crime victims to pay local vendors and San 5 Antonio vendors for medical care and other expenses related 6 to crime victims. And I think the first year I did this, it 7 was 53,000. So, as the years go by, we increase. I don't 8 know -- I didn't look up the numbers for the last grant year, 9 but it was somewhere in there. I would say there's -- you 10 know, besides the fact that we have the hangup in Washington, 11 there's one other thing that's happened this year with the 12 grant. The first two years of the grant, they require that 13 each quarter, that you turn in a financial report, and that's 14 how you get the money reimbursed to you. And this year, the 15 first three-quarters of the four quarters of the grant -- not 16 this year, but last year's grant that ended the end of June, 17 the first three times, we had a problem with the reports. 18 And the reports have to come from the County Auditor's 19 office; it's by law that the financial officer does it. And 20 we had a little hangup in getting the reports done on time, 21 and there were some other problems, and so I'm not sure 22 whether they're going to red-flag this grant for an audit, or 23 perhaps the governor's office may look at it and say, "Look, 24 these people can't do the reporting on time" or whatever, and 25 we may have a problem there, but we don't know that for sure. 8-6-08 bwk 71 1 But you just need to be aware that that did happen this year, 2 so that if it comes up, at least we'll know; you'll have the 3 background to it. And there wasn't any malicious intent to 4 it. It was just the transition, I think, from one office to 5 the other, and from doing the reports differently in the 6 system. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the reports were submitted, 8 but there were some -- there was some computer software -- 9 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah, issues. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- problems that they weren't being 11 accepted over in the Criminal Justice Division. 12 MS. LAVENDER: Right. So -- and I don't know if 13 that's going to have any impact on it or not, but you just 14 need to be aware of it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rosa, what contributes to 16 the in-state travel training increase for 258 projected, 17 year-end 1,100? 18 MS. LAVENDER: There wasn't any increase. Last 19 year was 1,100 and this year is 1,100, and those are two 20 workshops. Last year I didn't go to any of them, because 21 they canceled one of them, and the other one was at a time 22 that I had a trial that I needed to be here with the victim, 23 and so I didn't go last year at all. That's all grant 24 funding. We would just simply not request that money. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8-6-08 bwk 72 1 MS. LAVENDER: And -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: One of the workshops -- 3 MS. LAVENDER: -- until I find out I have the grant 4 this year, I'm not going to register for the one in 5 September, because I'm not going to use somebody else's money 6 to go to something -- you know, those are sort of redundant; 7 after you've been to them for four years, it's about the same 8 topics. So, I'm just not even going to register for it until 9 we have a grasp on whether we're getting the governor's 10 grant, because I don't want to use county money for it. And 11 the other one was in May, and as I said, it was canceled for 12 some reason, and so I may not have any travel and training 13 related to it again this year. If we don't -- you know, we 14 don't need it, if we don't need to go and don't need to spend 15 the money, then I'm not going to do it, because I don't want 16 to spend county tax dollars to do that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it? 18 MS. LAVENDER: That's it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's smart and she's 21 pretty, and she lives in Precinct? 22 MS. LAVENDER: One. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Attagirl. 24 MS. LAVENDER: The number one precinct. 25 (Laughter.) 8-6-08 bwk 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, boy. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks for the commercial. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we do Road and Bridge right 4 quick? 5 MR. ODOM: Number one on her scorecard, right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jody? 7 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 611. 9 MR. ODOM: Yes. What I have is -- is from 10 July 15th, and I don't know what they have. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody? 12 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 13 MR. ODOM: Well, it looks like this is more like 14 July 15th. That's the closest one I have, and I don't -- it 15 looks like that sort of reflects what I've got here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Jody, pastrami and swiss on rye with 17 stoneground mustard, if you don't mind. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cut the pickles. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Partridge in a pear tree. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 83? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard's on Page 83? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Must be some longevity built 25 into the three salaries as well. 8-6-08 bwk 74 1 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some longevity increases on 3 top of the 10 percent, increased salaries. 4 MR. ODOM: In crew salaries? I tried to add one 5 man. But may I go through 600 first, then? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 7 MR. ODOM: And, see, what I -- I've gone to the 8 Auditor. I thought this had been corrected, if Eva had done 9 this, but the assistant's salary was to be at 25 -- 25-1, 10 which this does not reflect that change, Kelly going up to 11 Truby's position. And then I asked for an open -- you have 12 the one position, which is Barbara, but I also asked to fill 13 a position to have three in the office there for 14-1, so 14 should have been around 50,000. 15 MS. HARGIS: I didn't put the new positions in. 16 MR. ODOM: Okay. 17 MS. HARGIS: Until the Court approves it. 18 MR. ODOM: And then I'm asking for one position in 19 secretary salary to be Barbara and another lady, and then 20 Kelly. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the other lady going 22 to do? 23 MR. ODOM: Other lady is going to answer the phone 24 too and do computer work and download a lot of information 25 that Kelly's doing right now. I got three there, and they're 8-6-08 bwk 75 1 busy. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You lose something, Judge? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Trying to see how the computer 4 works. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, trying to figure it out. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, Leonard, I'm not going 7 to, you know, disagree; you may need personnel, but with this 8 year, trying to do some -- budget overall salary increases, I 9 think it's not a good year to ask for it. I think most 10 departments, we've really cut back on the personnel 11 increases. We're trying to give an across-the-board 12 10 percent increase to all employees. 13 MR. ODOM: I understand. And we -- we balanced 14 where we could do all this. I mean, I worked with the 15 Auditor to do that. I'm not saying that I'm better than 16 anybody else. I'm just telling you, I think that I need that 17 one position there in that office, so -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 MR. ODOM: -- other than that, there may be some 20 changes in retirement and all that, adjustments there, but if 21 that's not -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Without the position right 23 now, how does it impact your operation? 24 MR. ODOM: Well, Kelly would be able to -- well -- 25 MS. HOFER: I would basically have to be taking 8-6-08 bwk 76 1 over all the questions that Truby's answering right now, and 2 along with doing what I'm doing right now, and I keep myself 3 pretty busy all day long. So, I would be taking on all the 4 things that Truby's doing and all the questions that she's 5 answering to the public and things that I'm still trying to 6 learn. So, I mean, -- 7 MR. ODOM: This is in addition -- 8 MS. HOFER: -- it would overwhelm me quite a bit. 9 MR. TROLINGER: And y'all recently automated, you 10 got a new software program where you've automated your office 11 a little bit. 12 MS. HOFER: Yes, but we have not been -- we're 13 using it on a couple of things, but part of what Leonard has 14 in the budget for the software is an extra $1,000 this year 15 for training for Barbara and I to understand how to use that 16 software fully. We're using it on some of the equipment and 17 using on it complaints. But the annual -- the annual charge 18 for that software, I believe, is 1,750, and then we added 19 $1,000 for training. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Good. 21 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: This only shows -- what I'm looking 23 at here, Leonard, is one secretary, isn't it? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes, that's all it shows, Judge. 25 MR. ODOM: That's all it shows. 8-6-08 bwk 77 1 MS. HARGIS: I would not -- I did not add any new 2 employees until the Court agreed to add them, 'cause -- 3 MR. ODOM: I went to try to correct it, but it's 4 just not showing up. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would a -- 6 MS. HYDE: Can I just -- they're not really adding 7 one. They've had the position for two budget cycles; this 8 would be the third budget cycle. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it hasn't been filled. 10 MR. ODOM: Well, we had a part-time. 11 MS. HYDE: They had the part-time/full-time person 12 that was in there, and what we did is we just moved them and 13 changed the names. 14 MR. ODOM: There's no longer part-time. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me see if I've kind of 16 got this figured out. In previous budgets, you had -- in the 17 administrative budget, you had the assistant administrator, 18 and you had a secretary. 19 MR. ODOM: That's correct. Then we had a 20 part-time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. ODOM: That was a young lady that was going to 23 college. Didn't work out, so we eliminated that part-time, 24 put that money back in. Kelly came in, and I didn't have 25 anybody to replace Kelly out in the field, so basically what 8-6-08 bwk 78 1 we did was scratch the part-time and ask for another position 2 for the three people in there. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Have we -- over on the crew side, 4 when Kelly came in, have you filled that position on your 5 crew? 6 MR. ODOM: Not yet. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it in your budget to fill that -- 8 MR. ODOM: It's in the budget for her position. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we've got -- we got the 10 crew portion of it taken care of. 11 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: In addition to Kelly, you're asking 13 for one more? 14 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm asking. 15 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 16 MR. ODOM: You're talking about in 611? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, on the administration side. 18 MR. ODOM: Administration side, what I'm asking is 19 for a -- one position, but I'm taking that part-time and 20 eliminating the part-time, okay? We didn't have a full 21 position; we had a part-time position. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Where's the 23 part-time? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, where was she? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can get into this 8-6-08 bwk 79 1 differently. On the administration side, -- 2 MR. ODOM: On the administration side. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you have been budgeted three 4 full-time positions; yourself, the assistant administrator, 5 and a secretary, correct? Traditionally. 6 MR. ODOM: Traditionally. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And no part-time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Kelly -- 10 MR. ODOM: We had a part-time. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're -- that's what the 12 problem is. I don't see the part-time here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can get through with 14 this. Kelly is moving into the Assistant Administrator 15 position, by virtue of the retirement of Truby at the 16 beginning of this budget year. 17 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, what you want is someone 19 to replace the position that Kelly was in. 20 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And no more. 22 MR. ODOM: And no more. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It ought to be in there. 24 MR. ODOM: Well, it's -- it's -- 25 MS. HYDE: It's not. 8-6-08 bwk 80 1 MR. ODOM: It's not. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is not. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They want another -- they had a 4 part-time -- 5 MR. ODOM: We had a part-time. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- position that is no -- that 7 is not reflected in the historical budget that I see. 8 MS. HARGIS: No, it is -- if you look under the 9 current budget under assistants salaries, see 64? Let's see, 10 there's part-time -- 11 MR. ODOM: 24,000-something. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the part-time person that 13 was in the office was carried under the -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Assistants salary. 15 MR. ODOM: We tried to bring it into the 16 assistants -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was in your -- 18 MR. ODOM: 600. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 600 -- no, the 611. 20 MR. ODOM: Was it 611? 21 MS. HYDE: I can't see. 22 MS. HARGIS: In 600. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see -- 24 MS. HYDE: Yeah, it's in 600. 25 MS. HOFER: 600-103. 8-6-08 bwk 81 1 MS. HARGIS: If you look in the fourth column -- 2 one, two, three -- fourth column, the second heading, 103, 3 see where it says 64? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 64,376. 6 MS. HARGIS: And then look at year-to-date actual. 7 The projected year-end is wrong, but see, the year-to-date 8 actual is 49,000. 9 MR. ODOM: 49,174. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Part-time was being paid out 11 of that same line item. 12 MS. HARGIS: Part-time was paid out of the same 13 line item. That's how it had been budgeted in the past. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in addition to the full-time 15 secretary slot that you've got that Kelly is -- is going to 16 be moving out of come October 1 and moving to the Assistant 17 Administrator slot, you want to be able to fill the one she's 18 leaving, plus you want one more. Is that what I'm hearing? 19 MS. HYDE: No. 20 MR. ODOM: No. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me what I need to hear. 22 MR. ODOM: Let me tell you what I need. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MR. ODOM: I need three people in the office, which 25 I'm what asking for. 8-6-08 bwk 82 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus you. 2 MR. ODOM: Plus me. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. ODOM: And, basically, it comes close, within 5 $4,000 of what I've actually had. Adrienne was the one that 6 was part-time, going to school. And I'm taking that 7 part-time money and trying to get two assistant secretaries. 8 I think that's what we call them, secretaries. Kelly was 9 already paid for out of 611. She moved up to train. So, I 10 need Kelly, I need Barbara, and I need one more position, 11 which is about $4,000 more, probably. Plus -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Than what you've already got 13 budgeted? 14 MR. ODOM: Basically, that's what I'm seeing on 15 mine, 4,100, 4,200. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That excludes, of course, the -- 17 MR. ODOM: Yeah, FICA and retirement. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and it excludes the 10 percent 19 and excludes the -- the longevities and that sort of stuff. 20 MR. ODOM: Yeah, I never figure any of that. 21 Y'all -- whatever. It is what it is. Whatever y'all tell us 22 it is. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's for the bean-counters. 24 MR. ODOM: That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of the 8-6-08 bwk 83 1 bean-counters. Under 600-103, Assistants Salary, we're at 2 YTD 49,174, projecting a year-end of 41. If they're already 3 at 49, how do we project 41 at year-end? 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 MS. HARGIS: This program projects based on what 6 was in there, and we did this a month ago. 7 MR. ODOM: Projection. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The projection is wrong. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's fine. 11 Something had to be wrong. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sergeant Cummins has remained here; 13 he obviously finds it to be quite entertaining. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's better than chasing 15 bad guys, isn't it? 16 SERGEANT CUMMINS: Yes, sir. I don't know. 17 MR. RUARK: When you look at -- just to clarify the 18 projected budget, when you look at it, it's a point-in-time 19 calculation, so if that was done a month ago or two months 20 ago, -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MR. RUARK: -- it may not be accurate. That has to 23 be updated. Somebody has to -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right, it may not be 25 accurate. 8-6-08 bwk 84 1 MR. RUARK: Yeah. But that's the reason for it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the feeling of the Court on 3 Mr. Odom's request for additional administrative help? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- my preference would 5 be to put money in there; call it part-time, then you have a 6 part-time person, let Kelly get in there for a year, and then 7 look at it next year. 8 MR. ODOM: Then look at it next year. But we're 9 pushing the envelope with her to learn everything and be 10 responsible. That's really tough. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And after -- a year from now, 12 let's relook at it, 'cause, you know, I hope with the 13 technology and Kelly's experience increasing, you won't need 14 a full-time spot there. But I do think you do need a 15 part-time, at least for part of the year. You need to use 16 it, you know, however you want to get some assistance. I 17 have high hopes for Kelly. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have the greatest confidence in 19 Kelly, that Kelly is going to -- 20 MR. ODOM: Kelly is doing a wonderful -- I will 21 tell the Court, Kelly's doing a wonderful job. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Add part-time. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you feel the pressure 24 building? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Half of a 14-1 is the part-time 8-6-08 bwk 85 1 person. 2 MS. HYDE: That would be based on 24 hours a week. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we've got 4 administration? 5 MR. ODOM: Do what? I'm sorry, what? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it is. We added a -- a 7 14-1 -- a dollar amount of 14-1 divided by two. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On 108 -- Line 108. 9 MS. HYDE: Instead of 2,080 hours, you get 1,040 10 hours for them to work. Nod your head yes. 11 MS. HARGIS: Can't even take that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like dealing with the 13 Legislature, Len; you get half a loaf. And that's about all 14 you can ever expect anyway. 15 MR. ODOM: Okay. 611. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we did good. 17 MR. ODOM: Not good enough. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 611. Okay, Bruce. You got 19 a big number there. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's Buster's turn. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's be quiet now. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He can't find it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry, can't do it. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't find it? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can't get there. 8-6-08 bwk 86 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard, is there anything in the 2 administrative recommended that you've got any -- 3 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- serious issues with? 5 MR. ODOM: The only thing was trying to get that 6 one position in there, to -- to help in the -- in the office. 7 But we'll find out after a year; we'll find out how it rolls. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like you were over -- 9 Judge, you were overly generous in the administrative 10 recommended on that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a $200,000 spread. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 MR. ODOM: What are we talking about? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 300. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 611. 16 MR. ODOM: All right. Well, the only thing that I 17 have in crew salaries -- well, there's several things here 18 that were left off, too, and I don't know -- I was told that 19 the bottom line was -- they were added in, but I'll go 20 through them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MR. ODOM: Crew salaries, I was trying to add one 23 position to the crew salaries, which was about $24,000, 24 $25,000 more than what was proposed a year ago. And then 25 fuel oils, I had increased fuel to 148,000, hoping I could 8-6-08 bwk 87 1 get into September. We were out of fuel first of July. 2 Kelly? 3 MS. HOFER: Yep, end of June. 4 MR. ODOM: Equipment repairs, I increased a little 5 bit, 3,000 for equipment repairs, trying to hope that I could 6 get close into September. Tires and tire repair, I did the 7 same thing, added about 3,000. Rubber wheels -- tires have 8 gone through the roof. Hopefully I don't have that much, but 9 there are years I get killed, but I really think I need that 10 increase just to cover us to maintain where we're at. I 11 believe cold mix was -- paving, I increased that. We were 12 out of cold mix. We've been out of cold mix since -- first 13 of July? June, maybe. 14 MS. HOFER: Yeah, end of June, I think we ran out. 15 MR. ODOM: And I think that our bids show -- 16 reflected something like $5, wasn't it, Kelly? 3.50 to 5.60, 17 something like that, increase per ton. 18 MS. HOFER: From last year. 19 MR. ODOM: From last year. Paving aggregate, I 20 kept the same. I increased the emulsions due to the cost 21 reflected from a buck -- $1.50 to $1.63, I think. I believe 22 my -- my guess apparently wasn't too good this year, but I 23 thought $100 a barrel. I'm thinking $110 a barrel average, 24 which would sort of keep us sort of in there into September. 25 If I can get into September, we will see what's left and how 8-6-08 bwk 88 1 we can make it -- or into the new budget. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: When was it that you bid your -- 3 your aggregates and emulsions and so forth? 4 MR. ODOM: January, February, I think, somewhere 5 around then, I think it was. 6 MS. HOFER: What? When we actually received the 7 bids, the material bids? 8 MR. ODOM: Right, mm-hmm. 9 MS. HOFER: I want to say it was March or May. 10 MR. ODOM: It went out in February, and I think we 11 opened them in March. 12 MS. HOFER: Yeah. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that was when it started 14 approaching the high, then, on a lot of that. May, I think, 15 is when it generally peaked out pretty good. May, June. 16 MS. HOFER: It was March, yeah. So, it was March, 17 like March 24th, 2008. 18 MR. ODOM: Yeah, I think we went out, opened 19 sometime in March. 20 MS. HOFER: That's what I had on the bid sheet. 21 MR. ODOM: They may reflect back down, but I -- I 22 don't know if they'll take the gamble to do that, Judge. I 23 -- talking to them in the past, I was really shocked that I 24 got that type of increase over -- in one year, and it had to 25 do with surcharges for delivery and things like that. 8-6-08 bwk 89 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. 2 MR. ODOM: And that's what's eating us up. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Everything's related to your -- to 4 your -- 5 MR. ODOM: Related to fuel. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to your petrochemicals, whether 7 it be fuel or whether it be in your emulsions or asphalt or 8 any of that business. 9 MR. ODOM: Right. Well, this is what -- 20 -- no, 10 16,000 -- no, I'm sorry, I'm looking at asphalt and oil. 11 25,000, I think I had. And we feel like we -- we will need 12 that. I might be pushing the end of September. That will be 13 -- we're running around 8,200 -- 7,000 to 8,200. The last 14 bill I saw -- one bill every two weeks -- is running about 15 8,200. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't have -- I don't have 17 any dispute with your figures, Leonard. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think everything you asked 19 for, you got. 20 MR. ODOM: Sir? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All those were approved. 22 Everything you mentioned so far has been approved. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only I have a question, 24 Len. You have $10,000 in for cattle guards. Is that enough? 25 (Laughter.) 8-6-08 bwk 90 1 MR. ODOM: I have got a policy -- as a matter of 2 fact, they're rewriting part of it. I submitted it and 3 wanted to reinforce that, and going into the minutes and all, 4 I think I will be fine. I will be looking at the program, 5 and we will analyze the -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just kidding you. 7 MR. ODOM: I know you are. But road count, ADT is 8 going to be a factor in that, too. When we -- we'll be 9 looking at it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we go for a part-time 11 cattle guard? 12 MR. ODOM: Part-time cattle guards? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, the area that I would 14 question is contract fees. 15 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Contract fees, you dropped down 17 from -- 18 MR. ODOM: I went up. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, you actually -- current 20 budget was 70,000. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 74,5. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You went to 74,5, okay. I 23 thought you dropped. I got to the projected -- 24 MR. ODOM: No, I went up. I had installation of a 25 guardrail on upper Mason Road. Kerr County Drive, Scenic 8-6-08 bwk 91 1 Hills, there's an area left open there. Lower Reservation 2 Road, and I may -- that will probably be Weatherby to finish 3 it. I'm going to be able to do four-tenths. I've got to run 4 water from the sewer plant, so -- and I'm going to try to 5 finish what I said I'd do on Weatherby next year, instead of 6 Reservation. And Kensing is left, so that was in that area 7 that I was going to look at Reservation. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to talk about that, 9 too. But we're going to have some -- I think we're going to 10 have some surplus cattle guards in that area, one of which 11 needs to be moved to another area. 12 MR. ODOM: That's fine. I have an area -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But we're going to be able to 14 take out some of those cattle guards in that area. 15 MR. ODOM: Super. We'll be talking about I-10 16 right there, too. I got one up front -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 MR. ODOM: -- on Reservation. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, I do want to 20 review with you just a second so I can clearly understand it. 21 611, crew salaries. Current budget's 700,000, and your 22 projected year-end is 630. That suggests that you've got a 23 position open that you didn't fill; is that correct? 24 MR. ODOM: I have two positions. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two positions open you did 8-6-08 bwk 92 1 not fill, okay. And you're -- and you're wanting to go up -- 2 or being recommended to go 836. What does that tell us? 3 MR. ODOM: Well, mine shows 725. Well, 4 administration recommended is 836; that's 116,000 more. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That includes full staffing, plus 6 the longevities and education, plus the 10 percent. 7 MS. HOFER: We have 17 longevities, I think. 8 MS. HYDE: Right. 9 MS. HOFER: In 2009. 10 MR. ODOM: A lot of people coming due with 11 longevities. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Majority of yours, probably, because 13 your -- your employees, there's not a lot of turnover in 14 them. 15 MR. ODOM: No, but I -- it's hard. I'm sort of 16 like Rusty was talking about. I hire somebody; you know, 17 they're on workmen's comp. I hire somebody, and they have a 18 background problem. And, you know, it's -- it's hard to find 19 people to fill. I may keep them for a while, and -- six 20 months, and then, well, they'll find another job and they're 21 gone. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we go back to contract 23 fees? 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This year, we -- you and I, 8-6-08 bwk 93 1 early in the year, talked quite a bit about right-of-way and 2 some issues on Lane Valley, South Fork, and then a lot of 3 stuff was put on hold in my mind because we didn't know what 4 was going on with subdivision. That's now become clear; 5 looks like it's going to happen, based on settling of 6 lawsuits, and there have been additional properties developed 7 on South Fork. I think we need to really look back, and I'm 8 going to -- you know, I want to get that moving again. I 9 don't see what you -- you're talking about under contract 10 fees there, or enough money in right-of-way surveying. 11 MR. ODOM: Well, I had -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure it's 13 in here somewhere. 14 MR. ODOM: Well, I had 30,000 in here, but that was 15 the lease on 5 acres up there on Hermann Sons. We had talked 16 about -- and I didn't know where we were going up front on 17 Hermann Sons. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's still working. 19 MR. ODOM: Right. And I didn't know what we were 20 going to do. Last time I talked to you, you said the doctor 21 and all, we were sort of on hold, so I have -- I didn't put 22 anything. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to put -- at 24 least on the surveying side, I think we need to put something 25 in there for that on both of those, because we still have all 8-6-08 bwk 94 1 those -- all parties are still willing to work with us on all 2 those right-of-way issues and acquisition issue. 3 MR. ODOM: I think it's time to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to do it while 5 they're still willing to do it. And I think on South Fork, I 6 don't know if you're aware, part of the Flach Ranch sold to 7 the Bohnert -- I mean, the -- Morris Bohnert's portion. 8 That's another subdivision as well, and that road has 9 right-of-way problems worse than any part of Lane Valley. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we concerned more about 11 surveying expense? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Surveying, and there will be 13 some -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Acquisition. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- acquisition, and some 16 dollars in there for fencing and redoing some of that, how it 17 all goes together. The total amount, I think we put 20,000 18 somewhere to cover that. 19 MR. ODOM: I think we talked to -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20 or 30, you know, needs to be 21 in here. And I think we'll probably get it -- I don't know 22 if you want to put it under contract fees or -- there it 23 gives you the most flexibility, it seems to me. Or 25,000, 24 some figure so we can get moving on it. Then try to defer, 25 do some of it the following year. 8-6-08 bwk 95 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You say 20,000 or 30,000? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Would it be appropriate just to 4 raise the contract fees from 74,5 to 100 even? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, probably the easiest way. 6 MR. ODOM: Probably easier way to do it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 8 MR. ODOM: And I also had a hydraulic study in 9 there on Fall Creek. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to ask you 11 about Fall Creek. Where's the hydraulic? I got another 12 question also. Where's the hydraulic? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the budget. 14 MR. ODOM: In the budget, 17,000. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MR. ODOM: I don't know what y'all have there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. I see it. You 18 and I talked about the rehabilitation of the first section of 19 Fall Creek up to the first cattle guard. Is that just 20 routine, or is that -- it's not special projects, is it? 21 MR. ODOM: Well, this would be -- that hydraulic 22 study, is that for that crossing right there? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know we talked about the 24 rehabilitation of the first section. 25 MR. ODOM: No, that -- 8-6-08 bwk 96 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Up to -- up to the first 2 cattle guard, which has been -- hasn't been rehabbed in a 3 long time. 4 MR. ODOM: Hasn't been rehabbed, right. It's been 5 sealcoated. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that something that 7 needs to be in special? 8 MR. ODOM: I would say special. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what are we talking 10 about, possibly? 11 MR. ODOM: Possibly half a mile. Maybe 9,000, 12 10,000 for material. Sealcoat could be in there on the 13 program for Precinct 2; be covered into the program. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MR. ODOM: So I don't need to do that, but I'm 16 going to guess you're going to need nine -- 9,000. But I 17 hate to -- I hate to rehab anything prior to -- if we can get 18 the money to do the construction, we're jeopardizing what's 19 up front with all the heavy equipment and everything else 20 going down there working, so I prefer to wait. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you get construction done 22 before you do the front, you're going to lose it? 23 MR. ODOM: You'll lose it. We'll mess up what 24 we've already done in front if we do that part in Lower 25 Turtle Creek to the bridge right there. 8-6-08 bwk 97 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MR. ODOM: See what I'm saying? It's not that you 3 can't do it, but you're going to be running all the 4 equipment, turning around on it, everything right in there. 5 So -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. ODOM: So, I think I'll wait until I know what 8 we've got and do the study, and then if we can get the funds, 9 we can build it, and then tie it all in as one project right 10 there. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are we proposing to 12 get the funds? Through that Washington group that we were 13 talking about? 14 MR. ODOM: Sir? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're proposing to get the 16 funds through that Washington group? 17 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm hoping that might be an answer 18 to it. That's what I'm hoping right now. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 MR. ODOM: The other way -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this an appropriate time 22 to talk about that? We'll talk about it now. For that 23 group, their original proposal was $120,000 a year to get us 24 moving in terms of all the work that needs to be done to 25 obtain an earmark through Congress and so forth and so on. 8-6-08 bwk 98 1 That's a lot of money. So, I talked to him again about the 2 possibility of another option, and another option for that is 3 50 percent of that number, which gets -- in fact, gives them 4 the ability to do all of the paperwork for us, and it's just 5 a lesser option, 5,000 a month instead of 10,000 a month. 6 It's not a full-service option. So, I think that's where you 7 -- we had talked about plugging in money for the 8 rehabilitation of that crossing and some other things; is 9 that correct? 10 MR. ODOM: Well, we discussed it, but the problem 11 with me, I don't have a firm number on that. I'm sure it's 12 going to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to do 13 what we -- what I had talked to the engineer about. I don't 14 think it is as -- it is a modified deal, but I bet you we're 15 at 300,000 to do the project. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that was the amount 17 -- the exact amount comes when we refine the priority list 18 for these people to go to work for us. 19 MR. ODOM: Oh, okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's where the exact 21 amount comes. 22 MR. ODOM: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The question before the 24 Court today is, are we going to put into your budget 25 sufficient funds for this Russ Reid group out of Washington 8-6-08 bwk 99 1 to work with us to try to gain those dollars we're looking 2 for, which is a couple million bucks or more? 3 MR. ODOM: You bet. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to say no. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because I don't have a clue 7 what you're talking about. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to have an answer. 9 If we're not going to allow them to work with us, then it's 10 academic. 11 MR. ODOM: I would say it's worth trying. I don't 12 know what -- listening to that right there, it sounds like I 13 need $60,000. But -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what it sounds like to me. 16 MR. ODOM: That's what it sounded like to me. I 17 don't have 60,000 that I -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the whole question. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- I'd have to be 20 convinced with a lot more information than I'm seeing that 21 that group can -- can come through with two or three million, 22 or whatever the -- or one or two million. 23 MR. ODOM: Talking about seven or eight million to 24 do the project. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or seven or eight million. If 8-6-08 bwk 100 1 we spend 60 that they're going to come through, I just find 2 that hard to believe. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, another issue on that 4 point is, with all of the politics going on in Washington 5 about the reduction of earmarks, that -- that puts a negative 6 connotation on the whole thing. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we're going to hire a firm 8 for earmarks, I'd hire them for the U.S.D.A. lab, not for 9 this. I mean, I just think that's more a thing for the 10 community. If we think they can come through, I think that 11 something like that, which is an earmark, or has been -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that would be -- that 13 would be for KEDF to decide. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I think -- I mean, 15 I just -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not pushing. I'm just 17 saying if we're going to do it, this is the place to talk 18 about it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A full-service contract is 21 120; half-service contract is 60. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I need more information. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a small question about 24 a small amount of money to rent equipment for the possibility 25 of -- of getting the mud off the ball at the Ingram Dam so we 8-6-08 bwk 101 1 can tie the new cable on. We're going to need to rent a 2 pump. I have some guys lined up that are -- that have the 3 other equipment, but if we rent a 6-inch pump, say, for two 4 days, can you do that with what you got budgeted? 5 MR. ODOM: I sort of think I can in some project. 6 I may call it the west-end projects. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 8 MR. ODOM: You know. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wanted to be sure that I 10 got that in, because that time's approaching. 11 MR. ODOM: I can't remember what they told me, but 12 it wasn't cheap, but it wasn't astronomical to rent something 13 from the Odessa Pump down there in Boerne. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All we really need is a pump. 15 The other -- I think I have the other part of it possibly 16 worked out. I'm not for sure. 17 MR. ODOM: I think I can find the money. Now, if 18 it's tremendously high, then I won't have any hair left. I 19 don't have any now. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, not that much, so be 21 good, I guess. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce, where are we going 23 to talk about the dam repairs? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's another issue, because 25 I do believe there's going to be some. I know Ingram has 8-6-08 bwk 102 1 some voids in it. You can see them. Get it drained, and it 2 will -- you'll see even more. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for Road and 4 Bridge? Thank you, sir. We're going to take about a 10-, 5 15-minute recess. 6 (Recess taken from 11:01 a.m. to 11:20 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order for 9 our budget workshop. We want to move quickly to Animal 10 Control, 'cause we may have some issues to discuss with the 11 City relative to this, because it is a -- it's a service that 12 we do provide to the City, and they have traditionally 13 provided a portion of funding. 14 MS. ROMAN: I believe my -- the largest increase 15 for me would be my part-time salary. I did request 10,500, 16 and administration recommended 11,550. That would be for 12 17 weeks of summer help to relieve employees taking their 18 vacations, and part-time weekend -- part-time weekend kennel 19 worker for weekends and holidays. And right below that, on 20 my overtime, I've always had 4,000 in there. What I'm doing 21 is I'm having my employees take off rather than pay overtime. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we reduce that? 23 MS. ROMAN: So we can definitely reduce that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Cut it in half? 25 MS. ROMAN: Cut it in half. I'd say 2,000. 8-6-08 bwk 103 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. ROMAN: If we go down to my radio repairs, I 3 had requested 8,900 for -- or 8,985 for the new radios. 4 Being that we're not going to need those any more -- well, I 5 need 200 in there, what I've always asked for for radio 6 repairs. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do that. 8 MS. ROMAN: My lease copier, I requested 700. 9 However, it is going up to about 1,200, and that's because 10 I'm -- I'm currently paying approximately $53 per month, and 11 then I'm being billed quarterly for the -- the metering, 12 which is running about $120, and that's because we're having 13 to make -- because of all of the registrations, plus we're 14 making all the copies for the vets for the registration. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 120 a month? 16 MS. ROMAN: No, a quarter. A quarter. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another $500 -- $480. 18 MS. ROMAN: Right. 19 MS. HARGIS: Needs to go up to 1,200. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. ROMAN: Needs to go up to approximately 1,200. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. ROMAN: And my capital outlay, I requested 24 3,825, and that's for nine cat banks. The cat cages that we 25 currently have for our wild cat room, they're probably -- I 8-6-08 bwk 104 1 don't know -- well, they've been there since I've been with 2 the County, which has been almost 13 years, and they -- they 3 have holes in them. I've had to put sheet metal, and screw 4 sheet metal in there. And I have to have those. That also 5 includes the new cages for one of the new trucks. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think I -- I didn't modify 7 that at all. 8 MS. ROMAN: No, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other issues? 10 MS. ROMAN: No, sir, that's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any questions for Ms. Roman 12 from any member of the Court? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you got any issues, Ms. Hargis? 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, a thought just crossed my mind, 16 'cause I didn't realize that she needed a cage for the truck. 17 They still have money left in their line item from purchasing 18 Environmental Health and Animal Control -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Take that out of the capital? 20 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, the money -- go ahead and buy 21 that cage now. 22 MS. ROMAN: What do we have? 23 MS. HARGIS: We have $26,000 in there. 24 MS. ROMAN: Oh, great. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So we can zero that one out? 8-6-08 bwk 105 1 MS. HARGIS: No, she -- well, yeah. If you want to 2 just take all the cages -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take it all out of it. 4 MS. ROMAN: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Just buy all the cages and do 6 it now. 7 MS. ROMAN: Perfect. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 MS. HARGIS: They did an excellent job on 10 purchasing those vehicles and getting the prices down. 11 MR. RUARK: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MR. RUARK: Which line item is that? Capital? 14 MS. ROMAN: Is that it? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Janie. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I tried to change it, but it's in 17 detail, so I can't do it. 18 MR. RUARK: Yeah, I got it. Here we go. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Now, gentlemen, we've 20 got some issues that involve fiscal capital expenditure 21 implications in our dealings with the City. We have a 22 meeting with them scheduled for noon today, and we need to 23 kind of reorient ourselves. I suppose -- why don't we take a 24 look right now at City/County. For those of you that are 25 waiting here from Juvenile Probation, Environmental Health, 8-6-08 bwk 106 1 Extension, County-Sponsored, Court Compliance, and County 2 Auditor, we're going to have to reschedule you. Not sure 3 whether it'll be this afternoon or a week from today. 4 Probably more likely a week from today. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just do it a week from today. 6 That way they can go about their business. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Again, at 9 o'clock in the morning. 8 I apologize. Next Wednesday seem okay for the rest of you 9 guys? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll miss that, Judge. I'm 11 out of town from the 18th to the 20th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to County -- I mean 13 City/County very quickly. Those are located in various 14 places, I think. 15 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, they are. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got some in Health and 17 Emergency Services. Let's take a quick look at that one. 18 That is 10-630, which is going to be -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10-630, got it. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Page 62. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 65, I got. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You got 65, you got 62. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm three pages off. That's 8-6-08 bwk 107 1 not unusual. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How'd you do that? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The major portion of that is EMS 4 contract. Buster, have we gotten -- have we gotten current 5 numbers from them, or is that the current number? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, you have -- somebody 7 in this system has the -- their request, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not the current number. 9 MS. HARGIS: I don't have the City's request. I 10 put what we agreed to in our letter. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I -- what Bill and I have 12 been told by -- through Scott Gross and Mack Hamilton at our 13 various meetings -- they keep on bringing all that stuff back 14 up, that they have implemented all of the county 15 recommendations over the past few years about pay -- or 16 collecting money and billing and all that stuff, and 17 they've -- they are making a bunch of money. Bottom line is 18 that they're coming up with -- I think they -- this year's 19 projected budget total is down 100,000 or something, you 20 know, a lot of money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: A deficit, you're talking about? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The deficit's down -- been 23 reduced substantially. But their recommendation is that we 24 pick up a greater share of that. They want us to pick up 25 75 percent of their budget of that deficit, 'cause that's 8-6-08 bwk 108 1 kind of -- that's where it is. And -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to know how I'm 3 going to vote on that? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I bet you I can predict. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sure can. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't need to ask you now. We'll 7 hear about that later, I'm sure. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hope y'all do a kumbayah 9 before we get in there with them today. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay, 215 is what they had originally 11 given us. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I checked with Jody, and 13 Jody assured me that the EMS budget arrived here and she did 14 whatever she's supposed to do with it. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City's been changing their 16 numbers at a very rapid pace, what I've been getting from 17 them. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the current City 19 position? I know the percentage, but what's the dollar 20 amount? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me hand this out. I think 22 it's going to be -- this replaces this one, because I had 23 some bad numbers in there. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The red and black one is 25 trash? 8-6-08 bwk 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, throw that in the trash, 2 the red and black one. And we went to this because it's a -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here's an extra copy if 4 somebody needs it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I need to explain. The second 6 page shows -- the top group of numbers of June 16th County 7 proposal shows that's what the County sent over to the City 8 in June. Below that is the City proposal that came back from 9 the City. I think we've all seen those. What I did, I took 10 those numbers, put them in a spreadsheet format, and totaled 11 them up so we can kind of see what we're doing. Fire doesn't 12 seem to be -- it's just a flat service that we're paying for, 13 and so I really didn't include it in the sum totals, because 14 it doesn't -- the City wouldn't have a number there. And if 15 you look down under the City's newest proposal, they want the 16 County to pay 75 percent of the EMS, among other things. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would put us at 255 as 18 opposed to -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 138. Those are their most 20 recent numbers. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 258. There's the 181 we're 22 now paying. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MS. HARGIS: I must not have the same ones y'all 25 have. 8-6-08 bwk 110 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's one right there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You may need this one. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you see a 181 on here, or 4 you just know that? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's up here on top, 6 where EMS is. 7 MS. HARGIS: So, they -- okay. They want us to go 8 to 181 on the EMS? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, they want us to go to 258. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 258. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 258 is where they want us 12 to go. 13 MS. HARGIS: Where's that? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're looking at -- the top 15 proposal is what we proposed. The second one down is what 16 the City proposed back to us. 17 MS. HARGIS: The second one? Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A point that I'm sure that 19 we all understand and know about, this 4 percent annual 20 increase, I don't know that we can do that to future budgets. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't do any of this with 22 future budgets. This is all -- this is kind of a plan. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The language, then, of 24 "4 percent annual increase" needs to drop out of the 25 conversation. We've told them we're not going to agree to 8-6-08 bwk 111 1 4 percent. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: They can't either. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a plan based on 4 the numbers. Wherever we go into the future, we can't commit 5 any of these numbers beyond one year. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But those are the two 8 proposals. If you look at it, the County's first proposal 9 back to them was very much in favor of us, bottom line. 10 Their proposal back to us was in favor of them, 100 percent, 11 bottom line. The second page -- or the top page only, this 12 page is some numbers that I came up with that are kind of 13 keeping in line with what I think we've been talking about, 14 the direction we're trying to go, and keeping them much more 15 in balance. That's kind of a recommended starting point for 16 today. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner? On EMS, for 18 example, on the top page -- 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry? 21 MS. HARGIS: Nothing. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She was irritating me. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anything new about that? 24 MS. HARGIS: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, you had a question? 8-6-08 bwk 112 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought -- EMS on the 2 '07-'08 budget, we were only -- their number is 227, and 3 we're at 220. We were only 7,000 away from 50 percent. That 4 was based on some of that stuff he gave us. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. There's -- these numbers 6 vary a lot. You know, I just don't -- we don't need to get 7 into too much of the details of some of those numbers. It's 8 more of, bottom line, how close we are. We're talking about 9 probably within 50,000, because Animal Control, I didn't take 10 Ingram out. I mean, it gets so complicated when you start 11 looking at this. I didn't deduct Ingram out in the future 12 year, because I wasn't sure what we were going -- we haven't 13 discussed what we're going to do with Ingram in future years. 14 You know, it's basically referred -- it has budgets remaining 15 constant, which isn't going to happen, but it's just kind of 16 a -- directionally, where things are going if we kind of 17 adopt what we've been talking about adopting. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to share this 19 with the City guys today, or are we going to work from this 20 or what? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you all like the -- this 22 page better than anything else that we've seen, I'd say we 23 start working off that. I mean, working with the City, in my 24 experience, has been -- we're better off working off our 25 worksheet than their worksheet. 8-6-08 bwk 113 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean -- 3 MS. HARGIS: I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- and this, you 5 know, is keeping it relatively budget-neutral, total 6 expenditure-wise, in the city and the county, where we are 7 right now, for the next three years. Fourth and fifth year, 8 the County starts picking up a bigger part of the burden. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which -- which we need to 10 let everybody know is -- was the City's original position, 11 revenue-neutral. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. This plan, you know, is 13 splitting up, giving them the library, basically, long-term. 14 We're taking the airport and animal control long-term, and 15 trying to keep the dollars -- and getting there over a number 16 of years to keep the dollars from hitting either party 17 significantly in any one budget year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a dumb question. 19 Do you anticipate airport going up at all? 20 MS. HARGIS: I didn't increase a lot of them. 21 Library stayed constant. I just put last year's numbers in, 22 'cause I've never -- I don't think I've seen any budget 23 number for the airport. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, the City's got so many 8-6-08 bwk 114 1 numbers we don't have copies of, I don't know what's -- so I 2 just -- it's kind of a mixture of our accurate numbers and 3 their numbers, which we just don't know, so I just used last 4 year's numbers if I didn't know. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in terms of the 6 airport, we really need to know what that number is projected 7 to be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're still -- oh, yeah. 9 And this is more just a philosophy. If this is where we're 10 tying to go, I think this makes sense. If this isn't where 11 we're trying to go long-term -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 13 And I grew up in west Kerr County too, so Bruce and I think 14 alike in some ways. Which is scary. But you're talking 15 about through the -- in the near future, you decrease our 16 contribution to the library, and slowly let them have it, and 17 then we start taking over more of the airport and animal 18 shelter, et cetera. What happened to the common sense way to 19 look at this thing, is we own half of the airport, they own 20 half of the airport, and we own the animal shelter, and they 21 own the library. They own the library; they need to pay for 22 their library. Why do we -- why do we pay one nickel to the 23 library? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. I -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Airport, we own half, they 8-6-08 bwk 115 1 own half. We need to do the half. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, part of the answer to 3 your question is that -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And animal shelter, we own 5 it; we need to pick up the animals in the county. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kerr County residents who 7 live outside the city limits use the library, but not to the 8 extent those within the city use it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What they need to do is 10 charge those people that walk in there that are county -- 11 county residents, charge them a different fee or something. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with that 13 philosophy. I really don't. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the animal thing, 15 we need to pick our animals up outside the city limits; it's 16 simple as that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about inside the city 18 limits? They're county residents. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, well, we can argue that 20 all day long. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, but they -- I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that doesn't fly. It's 23 just like the taxing thing; it just flat doesn't fly. 24 Doesn't work. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Need to pair him up with Councilman 8-6-08 bwk 116 1 Hamilton. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That might happen here 3 shortly. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You need to sit right next 5 to him today. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It might happen today. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Councilman Hamilton has 8 very little -- what he told Bill and I late yesterday, very 9 little optimism we're going to have any kind of agreement 10 today, so we'll probably need to meet -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He may be smarter than we 12 think. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be meeting with them very 14 soon again. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is one reason why, if 16 you look at the draft of the airport governance agreement, I 17 believe it reflects that we pull the finances out of it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we can get to a basic 20 agreement. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Does it provide that the parties 22 shall -- shall provide for funding of airport -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, as -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- operations and capital 25 requirements generally? 8-6-08 bwk 117 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As on Exhibit A or 2 whatever, yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As we agree to. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As agreed or whatever, yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I mean, I don't 7 have a problem going down that approach. I just didn't -- I 8 was -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that approach hasn't 10 worked. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't work. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't work, but I have no 14 problem with it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way you look at 16 it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I just think that we -- 18 it would be helpful if we could have a more than one-year 19 plan. You can't budget for it, but we can at least have a 20 plan. This accomplishes some of the things we had talked 21 about and some of the things they wanted, and for the first 22 three to four years, stays relatively budget-neutral within 23 the parties. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll see where it goes. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, just, for instance, 8-6-08 bwk 118 1 this year, the proposed budget for animal control that we 2 just did is going to be somewhere around 300 and -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 40,000. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $335,000, $338,000. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Less than I have here. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so -- and so, you know, 7 if we were sharing it 50/50, you know, that's $169,000 8 apiece. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And on this sheet it shows 11 that, you know, it's 120,095. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, last year. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we want to talk about 14 actual numbers of what's being -- our budget's proposed for 15 this year for these things, we can go with their actual 16 budget and revenues and all that stuff, so that we get an 17 accurate feeling, or as close to accurate as we can get. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- the spreadsheet 19 format is very helpful to me, but we've got to get the right 20 numbers from the City to make it work. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I like this. I had to 23 figure it out, but now that I've got it figured out, it looks 24 good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-6-08 bwk 119 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's beneficial for 2 them to know what our actual costs are going to be in the 3 animal control. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because that's one that we -- 6 you know, we're proposing to totally fund. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably be really helpful on 8 this to have a total cost column, and then the City and the 9 County. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. Well -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, do we want to talk off of 12 this in 20 minutes? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right with me. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure we're going to be talking 15 off of a whole lot of things. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay by me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: This certainly is probably one of 19 the several. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to introduce 21 this, Judge? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? I'm going to let you introduce 23 it, probably. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you introduce me to 25 introduce it? 8-6-08 bwk 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's chairing this, you or 2 the mayor? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He is, 'cause it's our host. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Me first, huh? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're the leader. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're the lead dog in the 11 pack. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I see, said the blind man. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The rat pack. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm sure, Buster, we'll 15 have plenty of opportunity for you to make comments, which I 16 tried to get across to Councilman Hamilton the first four, 17 five minutes. He still brings up too many -- he went back to 18 day one, brings up all the City/County stuff. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster, I agree with your way 20 of thinking totally on that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 22 MS. HYDE: Go, one. Go, one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You might ask the Sheriff to loan 24 you a gun before you go to this meeting. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you like to go with 8-6-08 bwk 121 1 me? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm going. I want to hear you 3 say it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, we may want to come 5 back later on this afternoon. So, at this point, I'm going 6 to recess this workshop so that we can attend this 7 City/County joint meeting, and we'll go from there. 8 (Recess taken from 11:42 a.m. to 3:40 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 (Commissioner Oehler was not present.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's -- let's reconvene the 12 budget workshop that we recessed at approximately 11:40 this 13 morning. We'll take up Environmental Health. 14 MR. GARCIA: All right. I have my postage that I 15 wanted to show the trend of about $1,300. I believe it's set 16 at 14 -- or it was at 14. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's at 1,000, I believe, isn't 18 it? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I cut it by 400. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of historical use. 22 MS. HARGIS: Which one? 23 MR. GARCIA: The postage. I have a -- 2005-2006 24 shows 1,376. And then 2006-2007 shows 1,296. And then the 25 current is 633 right now. 8-6-08 bwk 122 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you think you're still 2 going to get to that, even though -- 3 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,200? 1,300? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- 6 MR. GARCIA: $1,300. That was -- I was requesting 7 to go back or just leave it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,300? 9 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You're there. 12 MR. GARCIA: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What else you got? 14 MR. GARCIA: Also, I have -- I wanted to show, too, 15 that we -- I spoke to Jeannie, and we removed another $1,200 16 off the -- the vehicle gas and oil, maintenance. That should 17 show there also. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's up on that, Jeannie? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You requested 28,311. 20 MR. GARCIA: And then it was -- it was less than 21 28. 20,948. 22 MS. HARGIS: He was at 22; we took him down again. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: To 20,948, is where he is currently? 25 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 8-6-08 bwk 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's where we are. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else, Ray? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. The 5 oil and gas issue, is that because of new vehicles? 6 MR. GARCIA: That was based on the -- the prior was 7 based on the two jeeps and one truck; the two jeeps 8 full-time, and the one pickup truck that was used two days a 9 week. Now we have four vehicles; the three new ones, and 10 then the old white pickup, that are all full-time. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just checking to see if you 12 knew. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That still seems high to me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does, doesn't it? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you go back to -- you 16 shouldn't have any repairs, 'cause they're all under 17 guarantee -- no, under warranty. 18 MR. GARCIA: We didn't. It was refigured. It 19 was -- 20 MS. HARGIS: He's got P.M.I. with it. 21 MR. GARCIA: Right, we have P.M.I. on it. It was 22 refigured at -- 23 MS. HARGIS: 640. 24 MR. GARCIA: -- 4.18. 25 MS. HYDE: Originally, it was at 5 bucks a gallon. 8-6-08 bwk 124 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's this? 2 MS. HARGIS: Then we changed it to 4.18. We can go 3 back and change -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to change it to, like, 5 3.60, 3.65. 6 MS. HYDE: Same as the Sheriff. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3.65. 8 MS. HYDE: If you go to Animal Control's, everybody 9 was at 5, and then 4.18. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't pay tax. 11 MR. GARCIA: We can bring that down. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You operate off the same 13 gas card the Sheriff's Department does? 14 MR. GARCIA: No. As a matter of fact, I spoke to 15 the Sheriff, and -- again, starting off new in the 16 department, I was asking why I was using something -- I 17 thought we all had to use what the Sheriff was using, but I'm 18 going to establish an account with where the Sheriff uses. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're just buying it 20 random at the pump now? 21 MR. GARCIA: We're buying it from Valero. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So you're paying tax, and 23 you should not be paying tax. 24 MR. GARCIA: No. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You're paying road tax, state tax. 8-6-08 bwk 125 1 MR. GARCIA: State tax. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Twelve cents, yeah. 3 MR. GARCIA: Yes. 4 MS. HARGIS: I figured only a 23-cent difference. 5 I don't know where -- who's got the 38 cents, because -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think he's just saying 7 that's about what it is between -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He has the federal tax. 9 MS. HARGIS: We looked; he had his filled for 10 about, what, four or five months. He brought it in my office 11 'cause he had another problem, so he had asked for all these 12 bills, and in the comparison with the market, it was kind of 13 an average of 23 cents lower at Maxey. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You're figuring -- how many miles a 15 week are you driving total on all vehicles? Is that the 16 2205? 17 MS. HYDE: It's in the notes. 18 MS. HARGIS: It's in the notes. 19 MR. GARCIA: If you look at it, I got it all 20 scheduled out there for 2,400 per truck. That's -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a month? 22 MR. GARCIA: 2,400. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Per month? 24 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. Eighteen -- 18 and 15. The 25 21's are the D.R.'s. The 24 is the Code Enforcement, mine. 8-6-08 bwk 126 1 And then the 15 -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, you got 7,500 miles a 3 month, right? 4 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And you divide that by 17 miles per 6 gallon, that's 441 gallons a month. Why are you multiplying 7 that by five days? 8 MR. GARCIA: I'm sorry? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you got 7,500 miles total per 10 month, correct? 11 MR. GARCIA: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And times 12 months, divided by 17. 13 That's going to give you 5,294 gallons per year, times 3.65. 14 That comes out to 19,325, roughly. 15 MR. GARCIA: Right. 16 MS. HARGIS: That's what I have. 17 MR. GARCIA: 19,323. 18 MS. HARGIS: Right at 20,000, and he's got his 19 P.M.I.'s in there, so that's about right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If that's the mileage you're 21 driving, then that's roughly the fuel mileage you're going to 22 get. Yeah, you're on target. 23 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, Commissioner Oehler's 25 coming in. 8-6-08 bwk 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, he is? Good. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He just called from El Paso. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's on his way back? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On his way back, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He flew to El Paso; he's 6 driving back. 7 MR. GARCIA: All right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought you were listening for 9 him. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can't hear you. 11 MR. GARCIA: Okay. And also, I handed you a short 12 stat sheet here. I heard Commissioner Letz mention the red. 13 Nobody likes the red, but this is what I have here. This is 14 for the extra body that was the part-time, and I'm requesting 15 in that part-time a full-time officer, okay? Now, if you 16 follow along with me here, I'm showing the trend here -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, well -- 18 MR. GARCIA: -- of 2005, 2006, 2007, and then 19 to-date, 2008. Now, the resolved cases of solid waste and 20 O.S.S.F. together in 2005 was 180, okay? Excuse me, 141, 21 okay? Which left unresolved 39. Now we move to 2006. 198 22 cases; 93 resolved, 105 unresolved. We're moving along to 23 2007. 163 cases; 10 resolved, 153 unresolved. To-date, 24 2008, 162; 125 resolved and 38 unresolved. And those are all 25 pending or in court currently with the County Attorney or the 8-6-08 bwk 128 1 J.P.'s awaiting jury trial. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You're catching up big-time, then, 3 aren't you? 4 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're catching up so fast you need 6 one less person. 7 MR. GARCIA: No, sir. Now, I'm going to show 8 you -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where I thought he was 10 going. 11 MR. GARCIA: Let's go to the red there, 335, along 12 with the O.S.S.F. unresolved cases of 230, for a total of 13 unresolved year-to-date of 565. Now, what caused this, okay, 14 a part-time enforcement officer, again, there's no way he 15 could keep up with the caseload. Now, in the past, the 16 31-day notice, by law, had to go out. It still does. It was 17 followed up with another notice of 31 days again, which 18 didn't have -- wasn't necessary, and then another notice, and 19 then it stopped. The enforcement was never followed up, 20 okay? Now, if you flip to the next page, it shows 2007 and 21 2008. Okay, my total cases showing on 2007 -- now, this is 22 coming back when I started back in June through December of 23 2007, okay. Again, the total cases for O.S.S.F. were 104, 24 and the total citations were 3. The solid waste was 163, and 25 the total citations was 8. Okay. They were all Class C, one 8-6-08 bwk 129 1 Class A misdemeanor. And then the four arrests that were 2 subsequent to ID'ing some of these violators led to their 3 arrest because they were wanted by the County. 4 Still on 2007, you move down to traffic stops. One 5 traffic stop in 2007 was one of the pumper trucks -- in solid 6 waste, a sewage pumper truck was leaking sewage on the road. 7 Effected a stop on him, okay. Then we see all zeros for the 8 rest of that year. Now we move to 2008. The O.S.S.F. cases, 9 50; the solid waste is 162. Total citations for O.S.S.F. is 10 21, and total citations for solid waste is 23. Now, what's 11 causing those cases to drastically lower is the enforcement 12 part of it. Now we're actually holding these people 13 accountable of the 31-day notice, or when we see a violation 14 out there, we act on it there. We send the 31-day notice 15 out. If they don't comply -- what we try to do, ultimate 16 goal is to get compliance and abatement, but if they don't 17 comply and if they do not wish to comply, then we go into the 18 citation mode. We start issuing citations every day, because 19 each day is a new violation for solid waste in the Health and 20 Safety Code. 21 Now, the numbers move down for the traffic stops. 22 They also have risen up also 11 for the traffic stops, and 23 then 7 arrests, 2 of those felonies, and all taken to the 24 county jail. Again, 134 abated for solid waste, and 42 25 abated for O.S.S.F. The follow-up cases, 88 for O.S.S.F., 8-6-08 bwk 130 1 and solid waste is 263. Repeat cases or repeat violators, 2 2 for O.S.S.F. and 46 for solid waste. Then your notice of 3 public nuisance violations, for O.S.S.F., 14 and 99. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me what a repeat case 5 is. 6 MR. GARCIA: It's just repeat violators. We -- 7 after we've effected the law, which is what's required by our 8 nuisance abatement program, we go in, we send a 31-day 9 notice. They either abate or they don't abate. Then we 10 effect citations until the Judge -- or they settle out, and 11 then we start all over again once that case is closed. So, 12 once they pay their fine and that, I have to start all over 13 again. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they're on the same -- 15 it's the -- it's a -- 16 MR. GARCIA: The whole thing. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Repeat is on the same 18 system? 19 MR. GARCIA: Yes, on the same system. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not another piece of 21 property? 22 MR. GARCIA: Same system again, or same violation 23 of solid waste. Now, the last page, I break it down for the 24 problem, the current procedure, and the solution to the 25 problem, okay? Now, keep in mind, as the -- also, as the 8-6-08 bwk 131 1 director of the department, to keep this type of enforcement 2 up, I'm spending the majority of my time out in the field to 3 effect this, okay? The problem here is that we're unable to 4 maintain consistent enforcement. Lack of enforcement, 5 follow-up for violations for O.S.S.F., and lack of 6 enforcement for follow-up for solid waste, public nuisance, 7 and illegal dumping, both random and chronic sites. Now, you 8 all remember some of the notable cases that we had. One, for 9 instance, is the Roy Street case, Ms. Lara. Okay? That was 10 due to failure to follow up. It was two years in the making. 11 It came in as a complaint, and then the letters again went 12 out. We sent -- the department had sent out letters of 13 violation again and again and again, and never followed up on 14 those violations, but we're not doing that any more. 15 Required by law, the 31-day notice, or whatever the D.R. sets 16 for that type of violation. We act on it there, then, and 17 now, okay? Thirty-one days -- or 10 days after that notice 18 is gone, boom, you get your citation, or you either come into 19 compliance, okay? 20 Again, a lot of these cases -- and, again, the 21 notable one, the Roy Street, was lack of follow-up. Another 22 one, Dave's Place in Center Point, same issue. It was a 2005 23 case; now it's back in enforcement again. It has always been 24 in violation, but we failed to follow up. And, again, 25 there's notice after notice after notice, but no enforcement 8-6-08 bwk 132 1 after those notices. So, again, that trend out there -- or 2 the taste of the County or the Environmental Health 3 Department is that the County's not going to do anything. 4 And, again, time and time again, when I show up and cite 5 these people after their violation, the first thing I hear is 6 the husband or the wife arguing, saying, "I told you that he 7 was coming back," and the wife will say -- or the husband 8 will say, "No, I told you that they wouldn't come back." So 9 they start arguing because they're so used to us not 10 enforcing the law. Well, now we are, and this is showing a 11 progression out there, and we're setting a trend of enforcing 12 these laws. 13 Another case in point is Castlecombs. Started out 14 in 2004, and it's still a major issue, and the County 15 Attorney has that, along with T.C.E.Q. now, and we're heading 16 to -- for that to be resolved. Hill Country Camp is another 17 notable one. That was a public hearing -- started out as a 18 complaint years ago, and now it's finally coming into some 19 resolution. Blue Ridge -- I can go on and on. Hunt School, 20 West Creek. Again, Cade Loop, Hill River Country Estates, 21 Saddlewood, and then we come down to Ellerbracht, Crosscut, 22 the Taylor case, Scenic Hills, and Madrona. All these solid 23 waste cases have been out there for years, okay? They're 24 finally abated. We've taken care of them, with a rough 25 estimate of almost 100,000 tons of solid waste. 8-6-08 bwk 133 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What, now? Say that again? 2 MR. GARCIA: A rough estimate, because we're still 3 getting numbers in from the Ellerbracht place, of tonnage of 4 solid waste, we have about 100,000 tons of solid waste that's 5 been abated since starting back. Now, moving back to my 6 little point here, the current procedure that I'm doing now 7 is enforcing all the state standards and laws in the Kerr 8 County O.S.S.F. program and solid waste, public nuisance, 9 illegal dumping laws. The notice of violations are sent out 10 one time and one time only. There's no more three and four 11 notices. You either abate by law or you get a citation. The 12 follow-up after the 31-day notice, all -- they're all 13 inspected for compliance or noncompliance. And my solution 14 to the problem is -- is that we need that full-time peace 15 officer to effect that law. 16 I -- again, I'm running most of my time now out in 17 the field trying to set a precedent out there so we don't 18 have these repeat problems, and we do have a good hold on it 19 now. But this entails a lot of follow-up enforcement, 20 because the repeat violations are there and will continue to 21 happen until we have set a standard. The O.S.S.F. program 22 has been streamlined now, so that, in itself, with a little 23 kicking and screaming now, is set up to -- all I'm doing 24 there is enforcing the minimum state standards laws, so -- 25 with a full-time officer instead of a part-time, 'cause the 8-6-08 bwk 134 1 part-time would never be able to enforce these laws. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Garcia, looking at the numbers 3 that you've presented to us, it -- it appears that you're 4 making a significant impact, and there's a lot of catch-up 5 that's been going on here. Wouldn't you agree? 6 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Granted, even the 2008 cases, you 8 got some that are unresolved, but the percentage -- number 9 one, the percentage of resolved and unresolved are 10 significantly -- the resolved are significantly increased. 11 (Commissioner Oehler entered the courtroom.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But probably as telling as anything 13 is looking at the complaint cases also. The follow-up that 14 has been done in the solid waste and -- and O.S.S.F. are up 15 significantly. It strikes me that -- that you're making some 16 significant headway with what you got right now. 17 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir, I am. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But what he's got right 19 now, Judge, he's losing two days a week of what he had. 20 Right? 21 MR. GARCIA: Yes. It's -- my problem is, you know, 22 trying to maintain and sustain what I'm doing now, versus in 23 the past, which I don't have any numbers but goose eggs to 24 show you, because I don't have any stats from then until now 25 as far as the type of enforcement that we're doing. What 8-6-08 bwk 135 1 type of enforcement am I doing? I'm doing the minimum state 2 standards that is required by the state law for the O.S.S.F. 3 program. Nothing new has changed there. All I'm doing is 4 going by the law, and which is bringing everybody into 5 compliance. So, I haven't created anything new; I'm just 6 enforcing it. Now, the problem comes in -- the problem lies 7 in how do I sustain and maintain that? I am going out a lot 8 more in the field, and my duties in the office now are 9 lacking, because I have to put this enforcement in to try to 10 maintain the office, some basic line of enforcement here. If 11 I don't correct the enforcement out with the professionals in 12 the O.S.S.F. industry and on the solid waste and illegal 13 dumping side, it's -- it's always going to be -- I'm always 14 going to be playing catch-up. Again, I'll never be able to 15 get a handle on crime totally, but our precedent's out there, 16 and with the standard that we're setting now, everybody will 17 be aware of that if I can sustain and maintain enforcement. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any way you can switch 19 the part-time slot that you have open to an office slot, and 20 convert one of your office slots to an enforcement slot? 21 MR. GARCIA: We did that, sir, for Jesse's 22 position. He works O.S.S.F. and solid waste. It was a clerk 23 position, and we changed it into that, and he's a significant 24 part of this. But he does a lot of administrative up until 25 that point of sending out violations, inspecting for the 8-6-08 bwk 136 1 D.R.'s to keep them on the O.S.S.F. professional cases, and 2 the planning materials that we have going on. Jesse will do 3 the investigation, but up until that point. After that, if 4 you don't get compliance, which nine times out of ten we're 5 not getting compliance, then we go into the citation. But 6 that's what we did for that -- that one. We had two clerks; 7 now I only have one, because we changed that position. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there's one clerk and three 9 full-timers, right? 10 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jesse -- 12 MR. GARCIA: Right, Jesse, Tish, and Roy. Tish and 13 Roy are the D.R.'s. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, D.R.'s. 15 MR. GARCIA: But that's the number one problem in 16 that department, is trying to maintain and sustain the actual 17 enforcement. And, again, it's nothing new to what we're 18 doing here. It's the law that these professionals in the 19 O.S.S.F. industry are bound by, because they're licensed 20 through the state. Every action they take, every step in the 21 O.S.S.F. program is a misdemeanor if they don't comply. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, going back to the 23 same thing, if we added a -- a part-time office person, would 24 that help allow Jesse to have more time to do the 25 enforcement? 8-6-08 bwk 137 1 MR. GARCIA: It would. Again, but 2 administratively, again, what I need is that officer to go 3 out there, in effect, after Jesse had reached that point with 4 these people of noncompliance. He could be out there all the 5 time. He spends 80 percent in the field, 20 percent in the 6 office following up. Now that we have this where it's trying 7 to sustain this, he follows up, but only up until 8 administration. 9 MS. HYDE: He can't write citations. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He cannot write citations. 12 MR. GARCIA: As Code Enforcement officer, he can't 13 write citations for our county. And that's where -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see. I mean, you clearly 15 have made huge inroads in your department. My personal 16 preference is to leave it the way it is, not add any other 17 personnel until next budget year, and look at it after you -- 18 'cause, I mean, working through the backlog, you're doing a 19 great job getting rid of those. Your enforcements, 20 everything you said, I totally agree with. I'd just rather 21 let it go a year before we add another full-time person. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the part-time -- 23 part-time option, it would seem to me, would be a pretty good 24 option in that he's already giving up two days a week. He 25 had a part-time person in there; am I correct? And so he's 8-6-08 bwk 138 1 going to be short going forward two days a week in that 2 connection. So, if we can allow him a part-time for at least 3 three days a week, he can perhaps keep up and work on the 4 abatement and some of the backlog. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're right, if you 6 can find the right part-time. But I think the odds of 7 finding a part-time that can do that, the possibilities I'm 8 hearing are pretty slim. He needs a full-time person, 9 training-wise, you know, to do that. I mean, you can't find 10 that qualification, somebody who can write citations, with a 11 part-time person. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's probably true. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Ray, you said -- there was a 14 comment, "cannot write citations," and then you started to 15 say "unless." Unless what? 16 MR. GARCIA: We had a peace officer. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. GARCIA: As a Code Enforcement officer. Rex 19 and Ilse had already established that, that -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. GARCIA: -- our county doesn't fit that statute 22 for that. He can still be a Code Enforcement officer and 23 work -- do what he's doing now. Now, here's another point to 24 that also. Rex had sent out a memo when we first enacted, in 25 2005, the Kerr County Nuisance Abatement Program, which said 8-6-08 bwk 139 1 -- it also states on the court order that you have to be a 2 full-time employee of the county to effect that program, and 3 which I designated Jesse as my representative for that 4 abatement program. Again, for that part-time person, they -- 5 in 2005, myself or Eddie, at that time, was not allowed to 6 effect that program, and that was a memo that was sent out 7 through Rex's office. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since you were -- since you're 9 going down a part-time person from this budget to last year's 10 budget, what if we put in the dollars for a part-time person, 11 -- put the dollars in for a part-time employee; January or 12 February, whatever, midyear, whenever midyear is, come back 13 to us. We can see how the department is going. There could 14 then be enough funding for a half a year for a full-time 15 employee, and we can address it at that time and move funds 16 into that. That way you have funds in the budget to look at 17 it midyear, and that's keeping your person -- your account -- 18 your budget basically neutral from last year. 19 MR. GARCIA: I would definitely agree with that. I 20 would take you up on that offer. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just fine. I think 22 that'll work. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way we're kind of seeing 24 if it will work. We're keeping the personnel count neutral. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're going to fund a half of 8-6-08 bwk 140 1 an employee, in essence? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, in part-time. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: In a part-time. He's going to sit 4 tight for the first half of the year to see how his numbers 5 work out, and -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Come to us. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if he's in worse shape, if he's 8 going downhill between now and then, then you'll have enough 9 to bring somebody on full-time for half a year. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I understood that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's basically 13 budget-neutral from an employee standpoint this year. It 14 will have an impact next year or two years from now's budget. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Some would call that smoke and 16 mirrors, but I think that's creative thinking. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you know, the thing is, 18 he can justify what he's doing because they're working. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, exactly. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're making headway, 21 and they, you know, have shown us what they can do with 22 working cases and -- and writing citations and doing things. 23 And it's going to eventually clean up this county that has 24 gotten pretty dirty over the years. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's been a big help, you know. 8-6-08 bwk 141 1 And I think you're -- you're being honest and truthful with 2 us when you say you can't find a part-time person with the 3 qualifications you need. I would agree with that. That's 4 pretty -- it's either all or nothing. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, the guy that he 6 has down there is a quality -- quality employee. He gets his 7 job done and dots all the I's and crosses the T's, and he's 8 courteous. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, the whole office is. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they really are. 11 Don't get the big head, cowboy. We can cut this thing too. 12 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What else we got, Ray? 14 MR. GARCIA: That was -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't beat up on you anywhere 16 else? 17 MR. GARCIA: No, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I must have -- I must have been lax. 19 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm sorry I was late, but I 21 wasn't told we'd be reconvening. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you really jump out of 23 helicopters into the ocean in the nighttime? 24 MR. GARCIA: Most of the time. That's the only 25 good time to do it. 8-6-08 bwk 142 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've got a weird one here 2 on our hands, boys. I can tell you that. 3 MR. GARCIA: That doesn't happen any more. Not 4 unless Rusty gets some kind of new program going. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: People that jump out of 7 perfectly good planes and helicopters are nuts; they ain't 8 working for me. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the middle of the night 10 into the ocean. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, on top of it. 12 MR. GARCIA: Is that it? Any more questions? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds good. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Ray. Appreciate 15 your work. 16 MR. GARCIA: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Juvenile Probation. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, the Judge said -- 19 I said, "Judge, what about Bruce?" And he said, "Oh, hell, 20 he doesn't need to be here." Like that. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That sounds about right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Buster insisted that we 24 call you. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was glad somebody did. 8-6-08 bwk 143 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did, didn't I? 2 MS. HYDE: He did. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 57. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What number? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Page 57? For 6 everybody except Bruce. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, mine's 54. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what part of this do we 9 have any authority over? All of it? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, it doesn't make any 11 difference right now, because the Juvenile Board is not -- 12 has not considered it. 13 MR. DAVIS: It's not gone to Juvenile -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it -- good point. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any big changes from 16 last year? 17 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over the big 20 changes? 21 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. Line Item 10-570-482, 22 Alternative Housing, is the significant -- that's going to be 23 the big thing. The salaries we put in, because we have to 24 have our salaries approved beforehand. I couldn't tell you 25 that we put in the 10 percent increase, as those funds are 8-6-08 bwk 144 1 allocated; however, we will actually only pay what the County 2 matches. If the County receives a COLA, if the County sees 3 an increase, we will do the same. If not, then we'll use 4 those funds for some other thing, probably alternative 5 housing, because if we're going to have a deficit, that's 6 where it's going to be. With that being said, I'll tell you 7 the increase is based on -- we're detaining more children, 8 short version. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You -- say that again? 10 MR. DAVIS: We are detaining more children, is the 11 short version. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's not a per diem 13 increase as much as it is a volume increase? 14 MR. DAVIS: Right now, it's not a per diem 15 increase, that's correct. Kevin's kept his rate. The 16 majority of the facilities that we contract with, we are not 17 seeing -- in fact, I can't think of any of the facilities we 18 contract with that we've seen a rate increase. We have all 19 the new contracts, and no one at this point is raising their 20 rates. Now, whether that changes next year, I don't know, 21 but right now, no. The increase is coming from more children 22 being detained, number one. Number two, more children in 23 facilities, and then number three, the children that are 24 being detained -- well, I don't know that it would be fair to 25 say they're being detained longer, but we are having more 8-6-08 bwk 145 1 children -- we have more bed days. That's basically the 2 short version. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question about 4 it, Jason, please. 5 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The alternate housing, do 7 you consider our facility -- our juvenile facility as 8 alternate housing? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 10 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. That is the primary. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, our facility is the 12 primary on this money here? 13 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They get the vast majority of those 15 funds. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do -- are we still 17 looking -- I remember a few years ago, maybe under another 18 judge, but sometimes this character here, but that we send 19 kids to other facilities outside of Kerrville because of 20 different treatment facility issues. Are we still doing 21 that? 22 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's this money here, 24 isn't it? 25 MR. DAVIS: That is correct, yes, sir. Yes, sir. 8-6-08 bwk 146 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. DAVIS: We have preadjudication, 3 postadjudication. Basically, before conviction, or before 4 the child is found guilty or adjudicated, and then after. 5 Once the child has been adjudicated or found guilty -- our 6 facility is a preadjudication-only facility; therefore, we 7 can hold them, but we can't provide services. Whether it be 8 substance abuse, -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 MR. DAVIS: -- intensive counseling, sex offender 11 treatment, any of the services, boot camp facility, we don't 12 have that ability to provide those services. Therefore, we 13 must contract with private facilities in order to provide 14 those services to juveniles. Some of these funds go to that 15 purpose and go to that end, yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does there -- is there -- 17 can you see a trend -- a new trend of any sort of -- I mean, 18 you know, narcotics, of course, is always a part of the game, 19 and I understand sexual stuff is part of it. Is there 20 anything new? Is there a new kind of treatment that is on 21 the rise of some sort? 22 MR. DAVIS: Not significantly enough that I would 23 say that this is a pattern. You know, we might have 24 anomalies from time to time. We might go along and see a -- 25 a little blip in sexual offenses, meaning that we might, 8-6-08 bwk 147 1 instead of not -- we have very few sex offenses of juveniles 2 in this county that come to our office. No, sir, to answer 3 that question, I can't honestly say -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MR. DAVIS: -- that we're seeing any kind of 6 long-term -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just curious about 8 what goes on out on the streets. 9 MR. DAVIS: I don't see -- again, actually, our 10 numbers of referrals overall of children, the number of 11 referrals of cases we're getting are fewer. We're actually 12 seeing a slight drop in the number of cases, as we are 13 statewide in juvenile referrals. Unfortunately, the kids 14 that we're seeing, we're seeing either a higher degree of 15 offenses or children with more, quote-unquote, specialized 16 needs, meaning that they're -- they've got a lot harder 17 background, meaning with their family most often. Another 18 big, big, significant problem that's going to affect, in my 19 best guess and overall opinion, every county in the state of 20 Texas, is one of the reasons that we're seeing this increase 21 is because the Legislature did away with the Court's ability 22 to sentence juveniles to T.Y.C. for misdemeanor offenses. If 23 we have a child, he can go out and commit 25 misdemeanor 24 offenses, and the only thing we can do is ask that we put him 25 in a placement, a private placement. T.Y.C. won't touch them 8-6-08 bwk 148 1 unless they were to commit a felony. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's typical state. Do 3 you see -- do you see a rise in -- I don't know what I'm 4 trying to say. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Magnitude. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The level of offenses? I 7 mean, are we easing toward getting closer to the murders, or 8 are we still just out smoking pot behind the barn? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- as Mr. Davis said, we 10 -- the severity of the offense, the number of referrals -- of 11 actual referrals is down slightly. The number of cases 12 actually filed, petitions filed, is up, and the severity of 13 the offenses is up, which means there's fewer administrative 14 and deferred prosecutions that they're handling. And, 15 unfortunately, it seems like the conduct is more severe. 16 MR. DAVIS: I will tell you -- and I don't have the 17 stats on this, but that the number of petitions on juveniles 18 being filed have significantly increased. And, again, I 19 don't know if that is 5 percent or 35 percent; I'm not sure 20 of a percentage. But Mr. Emerson has told me on more than 21 one occasion that the potential -- that the number -- the 22 percentage of petitions filed have greatly increased, which 23 would -- that would be agreeing with what the Judge said, 24 indicative of either, one, a higher level of offense, or two, 25 repeated violations of lower level offenses. 8-6-08 bwk 149 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there state reimbursement 2 for part of this? Or -- 3 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What percent? 5 MR. DAVIS: Based on -- well, state -- our state 6 budget is about $247,000, total funds that they give the 7 department. Now, they have funding schemes, and they have 8 incentives, is what they're going to call them, "incentives." 9 They're funding schemes. If you can, you know, match this 10 program, then we will give you "X" amount more money. Jesse 11 Herrera is our placement officer, the assistant chief; he's 12 very good at that, and there's different ones. And it 13 varies, because it's literally a rat race. They'll say, 14 okay, as of this date -- for instance, small county 15 diversionary funding is one of the funding streams. 16 Beginning the first day of the fiscal year, we will spend -- 17 we will divvy out the money until it's gone. Well, within 45 18 days of the fiscal year, that money's gone to whoever can get 19 the most cases in requesting that money. There are also some 20 -- there's one funding stream that came in strictly for 21 misdemeanor offenders with a prior supervision or a current 22 probation violation. They say, "We're going to give your 23 county $20,000 for services." Wonderful. We cannot use a 24 single dollar of that to place a child in a facility. So, we 25 can pay for $20,000 of counseling. They're so restrictive on 8-6-08 bwk 150 1 the pots of money that they like to say they're giving out 2 that they're -- they're almost ineffective. Some counties 3 won't take them. If you're in a larger county, $20,000 of 4 counseling is pretty good for you; they spend $100,000. I've 5 tried like the dickens to spend the $20,000 on counseling, 6 and can't do it. We're going to probably spend, when it's 7 said and done, maybe 12,000. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And the other item I 9 see -- line item that went up quite a bit is Attorney Ad 10 Litem, and that's related because of the increased volume? 11 MR. DAVIS: Direct relation. More court hearings, 12 more petitions being filed, and -- and basically more time in 13 this room, yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Hope you don't 15 spend your budget. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I learned a long time ago -- 17 I used to try to get into this thing, and I learned that, 18 "Mind your own business." See you. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You were very informative. 20 Thank you. 21 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Commissioner. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Jason. 23 MR. DAVIS: Anything else? Thank y'all. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go now to Court 25 Compliance. 8-6-08 bwk 151 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Look at that. 2 MR. RUARK: 429 is the number. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 429? 4 MS. LYLE: 429, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What number? 6 MS. LYLE: 429. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 429. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Uh-huh. I just passed it -- 9 there it is. 10 MR. RUARK: Page 17. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's Page 17 on mine this 12 time. 13 MR. RUARK: How about that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's amazing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: How'd you finally end up on the same 16 page? How'd that happen? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You lost three pages 19 someplace, huh? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Somewhere down the list, the 21 number changed. 22 MS. LYLE: Okay. There's only one line item that I 23 would ask for an adjustment on, 10-429-309, Postage. When I 24 first took over this game, I anticipated sending out 25 additional mailings to people that are delinquent on their 8-6-08 bwk 152 1 court costs to get them to come in to pay. I didn't realize 2 there's going to be as many as there are. Part of that has 3 to do with County Court at Law has now requested that I mail 4 out the show cause hearings, which is additional postage for 5 me, whereas before the clerk's office was doing that for me. 6 So, now that's an additional expense for myself, setting show 7 cause hearings for County Court at Law, mailing them out. 8 And also, in the last two weeks, I have mailed out 237 9 mailings, which is more than I anticipated; that's 474 a 10 month. If you calculate that times a whole year, $2,619.36. 11 I don't foresee it staying that rate the whole year, because 12 we're at the beginning, trying to get people jump-started. 13 The show cause hearings are going to be greater than what 14 they are, hopefully, in the future, so I don't think it'll be 15 riding the same way all year. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: But it looks like you're going to 17 end up burning up most of that 950 that's in your current 18 budget, though, huh? 19 MS. LYLE: Yes. Yes. I have spent 190 -- probably 20 $300 of that since I have been there. At least $300 of it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, pretty short period of time. 22 MS. LYLE: For a short period. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And because the show causes are 24 being utilized as a collection tool, -- 25 MS. LYLE: Yes. 8-6-08 bwk 153 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you're handling that function? 2 MS. LYLE: I am for County Court at Law. Not for 3 felony, because -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I understand. 5 MS. LYLE: -- the end result for the show causes 6 are different between misdemeanors and felonies. 7 Misdemeanors, there's a capias filed if they do not appear, 8 and for felonies there's a motion to revoke if they do not 9 appear. So, the motions need to be different. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty interesting. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The alternative, even in County 12 Court at Law, would be a motion to revoke and they end up in 13 jail, and we don't want them in jail. 14 MS. LYLE: I don't want them in jail. They've 15 called me several times, and I have scared the life out of 16 them, for lack of a better word, and the end result is I get 17 money instead of them sitting in jail. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Best result both ways. 19 MS. LYLE: Best result. I told them, no joke, "I 20 want your cash; I don't want you sitting in jail." And I 21 hold people accountable for their money that they owe us. 22 I'm not joking; the day after their payment is missed, the 23 notice goes out. The day after they do not become current, 24 the show cause gets set. The day after they miss court, the 25 warrant gets issued. 8-6-08 bwk 154 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'd like to say at this 2 point that Judge Brown is a huge part of that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. LYLE: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is really participating 6 in this thing. 7 MS. LYLE: Yes, he is, as all three judges are. 8 They are very active in it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll bet in the County Court at 10 Law, postage is level with last year and the postage 11 increase, so actually, that makes sense. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what kind of an adjustment are 13 you thinking you're going to need in your Postage line? 14 MS. LYLE: I'm asking for about $800 more. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Running to 2,000? 16 MS. LYLE: Run it to about 2,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Money well spent if we collect 18 any. 19 MS. LYLE: And, honestly, when I do a mass mailing, 20 I get a lot of phone calls, so they do work. So, I guess 21 it's my fault. I send out the notices; I tell them to call 22 me, and they do. There's days when I can send out 30 23 different mailings at one time. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Long as it works. 25 MS. LYLE: It's working. 8-6-08 bwk 155 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Money well spent. 2 MS. LYLE: Yes. The other one is 10-429-420, 3 Telephone expenses. I see you've dropped it down to $800. I 4 think that'll be a comfortable figure. I just wanted to let 5 you know that I have a fax machine in the office that is very 6 seldom used, if ever. It's going to be disconnected. It has 7 a dedicated line to it; probably $30 to $35 a month, I would 8 guess, is what they spend on it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that dedicated line 10 outside the county system or part of the county system? 11 MS. LYLE: Outside -- I believe it's outside the 12 system, isn't it? 13 MS. HARGIS: I don't know. 14 MS. HYDE: What's the number? 15 MS. LYLE: 895-1861. 16 MS. HYDE: It's not in; it's out. 17 MS. LYLE: It's an outside line that I know is at 18 least $30 or $35. I have an agreement with the County Clerk 19 that she says I can use her fax machine, burn it up for faxes 20 I want to receive or send, because her cost is minimal. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 MS. LYLE: The only other thing that may outweigh 23 that expense is that I'm making a lot of long distance phone 24 calls, because, as I said, I generate a lot of calls. People 25 call me back, leave messages. Most of those are long 8-6-08 bwk 156 1 distance, because they no longer reside in Kerrville. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the 800 is a good number? 3 MS. LYLE: That should be a good number. By the 4 time -- by the time we take the fax machine expense off and 5 add on the phone calls that we're making, I think it's going 6 to weigh out on there. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And if there's any fluff in there 8 and you need some additional postage, that's where you can go 9 to get it. 10 MS. LYLE: Exactly. Exactly. 'Cause I -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. LYLE: -- may have more coming from there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask something here. 14 Personnel, that's you. Her salary is 40,374, only we are 15 paying her 29,090, correct? 'Cause we're just paying her 16 part of it? 17 MS. HYDE: That was the agreement. That was the 18 court order, where she was going to start. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, "yes" is the answer? 20 MS. HYDE: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. The next -- next 22 agenda -- next Commissioners Court meeting, I'm going to have 23 an agenda item to bring your salary up to where it should be, 24 because of what you've done to that thing. And that's a 25 machine; y'all need to go down and see it. 8-6-08 bwk 157 1 MS. LYLE: Y'all are welcome to come down any time 2 to see it, any time to see how it operates. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need to talk about the 4 assistant's salary or anything like that, or anything new? 5 MS. LYLE: I have a current part-time person that 6 is slow to learn the job. I'm not sure that he will be able 7 to completely perform the job. Right now, he's probably 8 performing 5 percent of the job, as in -- there's 100 percent 9 of the office to do. To give you numbers, he has about 60 10 entries on his 198th spreadsheet. I have combined County 11 Court at Law and 216th, about 750. So, he is maintaining a 12 minimal part as to what I am, and barely keeping up with it, 13 and I would propose getting someone in there full-time who 14 can help me out, because this is becoming a full-time 15 operation. There were two people in there before. There's 16 only one in there right now. Minimal, another one. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this salary, the 18 assistant salary, is that a full-time? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 20 MS. LYLE: No, the $8,000 is part-time. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the 29. 22 MS. LYLE: The 29? 23 MS. HYDE: The 29 was where -- right at where that 24 other person was. 25 MS. LYLE: Yes. 8-6-08 bwk 158 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We all agreed if we could 2 hold hands and become one with nature, and she wanted to have 3 a full-time employee in there, she would offer that person 4 29,091. 5 MS. HYDE: No, that person got that through some 6 court orders, so the starting amount, that person would 7 probably come in at a 16. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 9 MS. HYDE: 16. And a 16 -- which the next question 10 will be, "How much?" -- is 25,711 currently. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'm kind of out of 12 line asking these questions. I just wanted to encourage you 13 to think about -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If you're out of line, don't ask. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm through. But I've 16 done everything I needed to do. Just -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, you have. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- encourage you to start 19 looking in that direction. That's all I'm saying. You're 20 doing a super job. I went to her show cause hearings with 21 Judge Brown and Judge Prohl both, and this is a neat thing 22 I'm seeing. It is a neat, neat thing going on. 23 MS. LYLE: Do you know what makes it successful? 24 Cooperation from everyone. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8-6-08 bwk 159 1 MS. LYLE: The District Court Judges, the County 2 Court at Law Judge. Parole will be starting Friday in the 3 office; every Friday they'll be meeting. Probation sets up 4 every week. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Parole is coming to your office now? 6 MS. LYLE: Yes, every Friday. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So you'll get a crack at them? 8 MS. LYLE: Yes, every Friday. I met with the 9 Director of the Parole Division for San Antonio two weeks 10 ago. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two weeks ago. 12 MS. LYLE: Then I met with another officer two days 13 ago, and he told me he would be here 7:30 in the morning 14 Friday, ready to roll. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're going to have -- 16 they're going to have an officer sit down at her front desk 17 when there's no one there. It'll be a probation -- no, what 18 do you call them? 19 MS. LYLE: Parole officer. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Parole officer is going to 21 sit down there and meet with his client, and during that time 22 he says, "Go right there and talk to that lady right there." 23 MS. LYLE: It's one-stop shopping. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have them captured. It's 25 fantastic. 8-6-08 bwk 160 1 MS. LYLE: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We haven't been getting any of the 3 parole money that they're obligated to pay when they're 4 released on parole. 5 MS. LYLE: That's going to be changing. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 7 MS. LYLE: Well. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well. 9 MS. LYLE: That will be changing. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I'm hearing Commissioner 11 Baldwin correctly, I agree that we should crank in a 12 full-time assistant at 25, whatever, whatever. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: If you're going to work parole 14 cases, that -- I don't know what the parolee numbers are, but 15 parole cases have never been worked before. 16 MS. LYLE: I will have to get them from Parole when 17 they meet with me Friday to find out how many active parolees 18 that they have. Then we begin the process with them. Blue 19 warrant notice; ten days later, show cause. After show 20 cause, I'm not sure how far we can go with a show cause. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about parolees? 22 MS. LYLE: Mm-hmm. I'm not sure, yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be questionable. 24 MS. LYLE: As long as we have to -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nobody's sure. 8-6-08 bwk 161 1 MS. LYLE: -- start getting into -- but I think 2 between us and the parole officers, we can come up with 3 something. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: If y'all keep talking blue warrants, 5 maybe you'll get some. 6 MS. LYLE: That's what I'm hoping is going to 7 happen. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't. Don't. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It loads his jail. 10 MS. LYLE: I don't want anybody in jail. I tell 11 the defendants that honestly. "I don't want you in jail; I 12 want your money." 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem with the 14 parolees -- and I've been trying to listen, 'cause that's 15 going to be an issue, 'cause the only choice they have is 16 blue warrant, and blue warrant is an automatic at least 90 17 days in our jail. 18 MS. LYLE: It's amazing, though, with these people 19 that don't have money, as soon as you mention warrant and 20 jail, they say, "Oh, I'll come with something," and they do. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a miracle. 22 MS. LYLE: Mm-hmm, it's a miracle. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like the child support 24 issue. "Well, Judge, if you put me in jail, that's not going 25 to get you your money." 8-6-08 bwk 162 1 MS. LYLE: No. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's exactly right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If you put them in jail, they find 4 money. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About the best example I ever 6 had is a county court case where there was -- the gal owed 7 over $5,000 in restitution and fines. That was before we had 8 to do an actual show cause, and there was capias profiling 9 warrants issued for her. And she showed up at the County 10 Clerk's office, said she didn't have the money, she wasn't 11 going to pay it, wasn't going to do nothing. I was a warrant 12 officer. They called me; I came down, grabbed her, arrested 13 her. As soon as that metal door shut up the stairs in the 14 jail, she says, "Oh, I have the money in my purse," and she 15 paid the full $5,000-something in cash. Once she really 16 realized that that steel door shut behind her, she paid it. 17 MS. LYLE: And that's what I'm hoping is going to 18 happen with most people, that they're going to get to the 19 point where they're not playing, and then they'll come up 20 with the money. I just had a gentleman in my office two days 21 ago, same situation. Didn't realize he had a warrant, and I 22 said, "Do you think I sent you a notice for just the heck of 23 it? You ignored them?" He said, "No, really." I no more 24 than said that and Chuck came in one door, Charlie came in 25 the other door; he realized after that that I meant business. 8-6-08 bwk 163 1 I said, "You know, they're fixing to take you away." He 2 says, "What can I do?" "Show me the money." He paid. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, she's good. Getting 4 mean. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a good attitude 6 adjustment. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mean. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Best not have to go to her 9 office unless you want to just go -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Just go peek in 11 there. 12 MS. LYLE: I let Buster listen in on phone calls 13 once in a while when he's in there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster -- oh, he likes those racy 15 phone calls. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster's just thankful there 17 wasn't something like that a number of years ago. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, can you imagine? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He'd have stayed out there at 20 the jail. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Especially the time I broke 22 out of jail, when the old jail was up here, and jumped off 23 the side of the building. That's part of the rumor mill, but 24 it's true. Every bit of it's true. 25 MS. LYLE: Okay. 8-6-08 bwk 164 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Right after that's when you had 2 trouble with your ankle. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Then my knees started 4 bowing in a little bit. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many pats of butter did 6 it take you to slip through the bars? Part of the legend. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's part of the legend, 8 that's right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 10 MS. LYLE: Did you get the $2,000 worth of postage? 11 MR. RUARK: I certainly did, young lady. 12 MS. LYLE: Thank you. That's all I have. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, County Auditor. Where is that 16 one? 17 MR. RUARK: It's 495. We'll get you the page 18 number here. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 34 on mine. 21 MR. RUARK: Page 34 on mine too. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got Page 34. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's Page 34 on mine. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not where you're missing the 25 pages, then. 8-6-08 bwk 165 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Haven't gotten that far yet. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's this salary increase 3 thing? I'm kidding. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You said you were going to uphold 5 Bruce's end of the deal while he wasn't here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm waiting for you to get 8 started. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that 10 percent? 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do the math. 13 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Before I get started, I would 14 like to pay a compliment to Diane Bolin for her very 15 professional process this year in getting the tax rate done 16 and processing it and getting it to the paper. She's been a 17 great help and has been working with me very closely this 18 year, and I really appreciate what she's done, so I did want 19 to say that before I get started. We had a little problem 20 yesterday, and she was on her cell phone, and we got it 21 resolved and it worked out really well. Also, when I was 22 here last, my employee had just quit, and so we needed to go 23 back and revamp our office, and with Eva's help -- and I do 24 appreciate her, as well -- we have got an ad in the paper as 25 of today -- I believe it's today or tomorrow. 8-6-08 bwk 166 1 MS. HYDE: Weekend. 2 MS. HARGIS: And we're going to hire a person in 3 that position with perhaps a little stronger skills, and 4 going to keep the lady that I already have. And with your 5 approval, I'd like to keep Ken, and he is willing as well to 6 take work a little less if he has to so I can have two people 7 in the part-time situation, if needed. And then I have 8 contacted Schreiner University, and I am going to try to get 9 an intern for every semester, and they are free, to help us 10 so that we can work it out, you know, for this year. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what was the reception at 12 Schreiner when you contacted them? Did you go straight to 13 the -- the business department, or how did you do that? 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, I contacted -- I haven't heard 15 back from him yet, the gentleman that I dealt with at -- the 16 last intern that I had at the City. And I had to write a 17 letter to him; I contacted him by e-mail. I have not heard 18 from him. When Josh and I were in the car this afternoon, he 19 called their H.R. person, and she's e-mailing me the lady's 20 name, but they do have accounting students, and they're 21 cross-trained. They're pretty sharp. They're accounting 22 I.T. majors, and a lot of times what we could do there is, if 23 we get them for 180 hours, is what their program is, and then 24 once their 180 hours is over, then perhaps we can retain them 25 part-time, you know, to the end of the semester, and then get 8-6-08 bwk 167 1 a new one. But they're real sharp, and they're -- you know, 2 especially with their computer skills and in knowing Excel 3 and those type programs. So, I think we can work it out this 4 year. I do think that, like a lot of the departments, 5 towards the end of this year that may or may not work out, 6 but I'm going to try to make it this year so that I can help 7 everybody else. But I will be coming back next year, because 8 I will need another person at some point in time, a full-time 9 person. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- what is a part-time 11 employee? 12 MS. HARGIS: A part-time employee comes in -- Ken's 13 coming in four hours a day. Sometimes -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is he a part-time employee? 15 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 16 MR. RUARK: I'm a part-time employee. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many hours? 18 MS. HARGIS: He's been working 20 hours a week 19 since May. Before then, he was only working as we had an 20 audit or -- or, you know, as a project, working on a 21 particular project. And so right now, I really -- you know, 22 sometimes I -- he's there in the mornings, and -- and we may 23 have a crisis in the afternoon, and I'm it. So, it's just -- 24 for the next 30 days, we're probably -- you know, we're going 25 to have a few hiccups. It's going to take us 30 days to get 8-6-08 bwk 168 1 someone in there. And my employee at first had told Eva and 2 I both that she'd be there till the end of the month. Her 3 last day is next Tuesday. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 5 MS. HARGIS: So there's no way I'm going to get 6 anybody in there. So -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- a part-time employee 8 is under 19 hours? Is that -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Oh, you mean -- a part-time employee 10 is 30 hours, I believe, isn't it, that we consider it? 11 MS. HYDE: In the policy book right now, we've got 12 it in that a part-time person has to work less than 1,200 13 hours a year. So that -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought there was a 15 federal law or something. 16 MS. HYDE: Well -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nineteen hours or less is a 18 part-time person. 19 MS. HYDE: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And my -- really, my 21 question is -- is providing insurance or other benefits for 22 part-time employees. 23 MS. HYDE: Not at this point. The only thing we do 24 is retirement. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says here insurance for 8-6-08 bwk 169 1 four people. 2 MS. HARGIS: Well, that was when I wanted -- there 3 was three of us in my office, and a fourth person would have 4 been my other full-time person, which I am not asking for 5 now. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that note goes away? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you've given me some bad 10 information again. This is two days in a row here. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Outdated information. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, I would 13 have probably recommended you go with the part-time approach 14 rather than full-time approach, even if you had needed to do 15 it this way. My reason is, it seems to me that you've been 16 on a sharp learning curve -- the whole county's been on a 17 sharp learning curve because of the new communication -- or 18 new accounting system and all that. I think that staffing 19 may be adequate once everyone is familiar with everything and 20 you're familiar with county business. You know, but I 21 understand a part-time's a good way to bridge that gap. I 22 have no problem with putting it in here, but it's going to be 23 a pretty hard sell -- just to warn you, a pretty hard sell to 24 get a full-time person, but maybe -- maybe you can justify 25 it. 8-6-08 bwk 170 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm not -- at this time, I'm 2 not. But next year, after I've been here the second year and 3 I have the -- you know, we'll keep the statistics, and I'm 4 hoping that, again, that the -- the new person coming in with 5 -- Eva's written the description to be a pretty strong Excel 6 software person, and to be honest with you right now, I have 7 no one in my office that can do anything like that but me. 8 And Ken, when Ken came in. So, that was leaving any kind of 9 spreadsheet, whether it be simple or whatever, to me, and 10 that's -- that's a lot of time-consuming. But I -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's fine for this year. I 12 mean, I'm fine with it. 13 MS. HARGIS: I think we'll be -- but I do -- you 14 know, I hope you will -- 15 MS. HYDE: We're adding a part-timer? 16 MS. HARGIS: No, we have Ken. That's it. 17 MS. HYDE: Okay. Then we're just going to do the 18 intern? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes, that's it. That's all we're 20 doing. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What I want to know is how 22 you -- where you got the money to pay this -- this contract 23 worker that you had the contract labor for the summer. Where 24 did you have that in your budget? 25 MS. HARGIS: I didn't do my budget last year. 8-6-08 bwk 171 1 Tommy did the budget. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where'd the money come from? 3 MS. HARGIS: He had -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I want to know where the 5 money came from. 6 MS. HARGIS: From the full-time -- actual full-time 7 line item. There was a full-time person budgeted in there as 8 well as Tommy. He budgeted himself, he budgeted me, and he 9 budgeted for three people in that office, okay? I did not 10 make that budget; he did that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, how do you hire a 12 contract worker and how do you justify it? 13 MS. HARGIS: Well, I justify -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A contract part-time worker 15 or a summer worker. How do you do that? How do you -- how 16 do you get to pay contract labor on an employee that you've 17 hired for the summer, and she's directly supervised and 18 probably can't qualify for the three questions you ask that 19 would justify a contract labor person. 20 MS. HARGIS: I thought you were talking about Ken. 21 Oh, the young girl that I have in my office right now will be 22 there approximately three more days, four more days. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's been there all summer. 24 I guess, you know, three more days -- 25 MS. HARGIS: She hasn't been there all summer, 8-6-08 bwk 172 1 but -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: However long it was. 3 MS. HARGIS: Six weeks. And she was there to do 4 the filing system, which had gotten very, very far behind 5 because of the two girls not being able to do it. And for 6 the indigent health care, we changed the filing system up in 7 my office, because it was very difficult to find the 8 invoices. And, you know, also cleaned up our storage room, 9 which we may lose, I understand, because we may need that for 10 someone. But I've used -- I've used her to get my filing and 11 things of that -- the paperwork. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I guess my other 13 question is, how do you do that without getting approval from 14 the Court to have another person working in your office? 15 MS. HARGIS: I -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't remember you coming 17 to court. 18 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, I did not. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For not one red cent to pay 20 anybody else in your office, but you just did it. Is that 21 not true? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it is. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I rest my case. 24 MS. HARGIS: I had it in my budget. I did not know 25 that I was supposed to come to the Court. 8-6-08 bwk 173 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you want to -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm going to get back to 4 where we were in that office when Tommy let it go. I want to 5 get back to an auditor and two people, and if she wants to 6 get a third person on a program from Schreiner that's not 7 going to cost any money, so be it. Workload hasn't gotten 8 any bigger in there than it always has been. If anything, 9 there was a short time this year when the problem with the 10 Treasurer -- when you took over some of those duties, but 11 that doesn't exist any more. 12 MS. HARGIS: Again, I will -- it's difficult for 13 me. I have only been here a year, to know exactly what the 14 workload had been in the past. I do know that none of the 15 audits had been performed in this building since 2000, and 16 none of them had been done. No department had been visited. 17 And that is a requirement of my job, and none of those had 18 been done. There is a lot of -- I've uncovered a lot of 19 things that have been done, but for me to stand up here and 20 to -- you know, to compare one person to another person is 21 not -- you know, it's -- I don't believe that's my job to do. 22 I do want to, when we're talking about auditing, explain one 23 situation one more time. I am working with ESD Number 2. 24 Ben Alves and I have been in conversation, and I located 25 someone for him that is willing to write the report and bless 8-6-08 bwk 174 1 the financial statements. He is the same auditor that the 2 City of Ingram uses. We are going to do all the field work 3 and prepare all the documents for him, and he is going to 4 write the letter. 5 He is -- I talked to Mr. Alves about him. He is 6 looking at their work papers as we speak. And in the 7 legislation, it allows me to choose the type of audit that we 8 do, and so in order to reduce the cost and to reduce the type 9 of audit that we do, the gentleman that I've sent the 10 information to is going to decide between what we call a 11 compilation, which would be normally called a write-up, work 12 which you would get for your own self, or a review. And we 13 had originally talked about a review, but I had -- I had sent 14 him documentation and said that I really feel like we need to 15 bring it down to a compilation, which will bring his fee 16 down. They will get financial statements from him. They 17 will get a report from him that they can take to the bank, 18 and they can get loans off of that. We will do all of the 19 background work. We will prepare all the paperwork for him, 20 but then he will take that risk assessment saying that their 21 internal control is good and so forth, and be able to sign 22 off on it. Mr. Alves and I are both in agreement, and he and 23 I have been working on it now for about two weeks, so 24 hopefully Mr. Siebert will get back with me. I told him I 25 called around to try to find the best price and someone that 8-6-08 bwk 175 1 was knowledgeable in that arena, and he was suggested, and 2 the City of Ingram speaks very highly of him. And -- and he 3 seems like he's willing to do the job. So, if there's not a 4 problem, Mr. Alves seems to be okay with him. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, are you okay with 6 that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're going to have a C.P.A. 8 writing the opinion? 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And it'll qualify as an audit under 11 the statute? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But the -- the attractive portion of 14 this is, rather than him gathering all of the data, you're -- 15 you're gathering the data and providing it to him, which 16 reduces his time involved, and therefore reduces the cost to 17 ESD Number 2. 18 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. We will do all the 19 field work, and field work is where most of the fee is. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably about two pages. 21 It's a lot of field work involved in that for anybody's audit 22 for 12 checks a year. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, back to internal 24 audits -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It seems like it -- this 8-6-08 bwk 176 1 whole thing has just been completely blown out of proportion, 2 you know, to get a little simple audit. And you -- you knew 3 you couldn't do it. That's fine; just tell me you can't do 4 it. You don't want to be a part of it, we don't designate 5 you. You know, it's just -- it's all ridiculous. That's why 6 you haven't heard from ESD Number 1. They're not going to 7 contact you, and they don't have to. They can get an audit 8 without coming through the County. 9 MS. HARGIS: I have the -- ESD Number 2 sent me 10 another resolution. I did not contact them, nor did I tell 11 them they had to choose anyone. When I talked to Mr. Alves, 12 he asked me if there was someone, and I tried calling around 13 to get an auditor that would do it for a good price. I found 14 this gentleman. I suggested him to Mr. Alves. I did not 15 tell him he had to use him. That is not my job. Nor did I 16 ever say that it was my -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not -- 18 MS. HARGIS: The resolution that they sent me just 19 said that they would appoint me again, so when I called him, 20 I said, you know, this is my suggestion; we reduce the type 21 of an audit that it is so we can reduce the fee. 22 Unfortunately, the auditors -- because of all the things that 23 happened with Enron, whenever they write a report and put 24 their name on it, it's not the work that they do, per se. 25 It's the risk they take after they sign their name, and none 8-6-08 bwk 177 1 of them are willing to take that risk. And that's the 2 problem I ran into, is nobody would do it. Most people 3 wanted to charge me an arm and a leg, and I said that's 4 ridiculous. And this gentleman was suggested to me. He is 5 local, and I think that -- I think it will work out well for 6 them, and he seems to be excited about it. And if there's a 7 problem, he and I will work it out, but right now, both of us 8 are working on it and we're trying to get the fee down to a 9 very minimal amount. But that will allow them to have 10 documentation to go get any type of loan that they need to 11 get. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quickie. Go back to 14 internal audits -- internal departmental audits. How many 15 did your office do this year, and how many do you plan to do 16 next year? 17 MS. HARGIS: We did every single department, I 18 think, didn't we? 19 MR. RUARK: Yeah, I think -- well, yeah. Anybody 20 that handled cash, we did it, okay. And if that was eight, 21 ten, you know, I'd have to go look. But -- and, again, 22 whatever Jeannie decides that we can do through next year, 23 you're going to see a little different type, because we have 24 some more experience with it, a little more familiar with it. 25 First year of any audit is kind of, "Let's find out where 8-6-08 bwk 178 1 we're at," and the second year you get a little more 2 sophisticated. Although I don't expect the results to be 3 significantly different, but I think you'll see a -- at least 4 from the standpoint of, you know, the experience of going 5 through all the departments. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: More internal control this year. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thanks for a simple 9 explanation. 10 MR. RUARK: Well, you're welcome. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- general comment on 12 the audits. I mean, I think that -- be sure you have the 13 numbers to present, but I think that the office -- or the 14 Auditor's office is doing a lot different work than the 15 previous Auditor did, and I don't think you can just say 16 because there was three people there before, there should be 17 three people there in the future. I think this office has 18 done a lot more -- we found, as a county, we had huge 19 problems on internal controls out there, especially in 20 discussion of money, and I think we've had three 21 departments -- Auditor, H.R., and Treasurer -- working on 22 that, trying to solve it, a huge amount of problems that we 23 had. So, I think that, you know, you can't just say we did 24 it this way in the past; we're going to do it this way in the 25 future. 8-6-08 bwk 179 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we need a lot -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've changed a great deal of 3 how we do the audit function in the county. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we made a lot of 5 progress in that regard. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I'd like to 7 comment on for the -- kind of on Jeannie's part, in the eight 8 years I've been Sheriff out there, I'll be very honest; this 9 is the first year that my commissary account even gave me a 10 headache because of how she was auditing. You know, Tommy 11 was -- we'd send him a statement -- and I'm not saying Tommy 12 didn't do it, but we sent a statement and the audit was over; 13 he accepted our statement. The Auditor really put us through 14 the ringer. We're fine, and we have -- you know, I have 15 excellent control. And I think a lot of it also, if you saw 16 what Pressler Thompson used -- and that was something Bruce 17 wanted to do, you know, change outside auditors. But that 18 created a whole lot -- Bruce said there hasn't been that much 19 more work. Well, I know out at my office, there's been a ton 20 more work from the Auditor's office, because every penny 21 we've had and dealt with that we've never been asked about, 22 we've been asked about in the last year. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which is good. It really put 25 me back on my toes. 8-6-08 bwk 180 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, and let me say one other thing I 2 do appreciate. The one thing that has really helped is the 3 teamwork that Eva and the Treasurer have provided, I think, 4 as well as -- and Eva has done this, and I think this is a 5 compliment to her; that all the elected officials are working 6 as a team now, and when we met over there to talk about the 7 raises, that was a landmark situation, and I think she needs 8 to be complimented for that. And I think because of that, 9 all of us are working better together and as a team, and 10 that's really moving everything forward. It's just -- it's a 11 joy to work with everybody right now in the courthouse 12 because of that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You got anything else on your 14 budget? 15 MS. HARGIS: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: How about County -- now, what did 19 you immediately spring your hand into the air for? 20 MS. HYDE: I had a stitch. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take care of it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably almost had a heart 24 attack. 25 MS. HARGIS: We could not get ahold of Roy Walston. 8-6-08 bwk 181 1 I don't know if you want to put him on the next workshop, or 2 go through here and then -- I think -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll figure out something to do 4 with him. 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: County Sponsored is 660 -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Page 67. 9 MS. HARGIS: I basically plugged in the same as you 10 did last year, so if you want to change these, I need for you 11 to tell me. Page 67, Bruce? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 70. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There we are; we found the 15 three-page difference. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There. You can -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Somewhere between the last one and 18 this one, Bruce. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Between 34 and 70. 20 MS. HARGIS: We did get the new contract on the 21 Trapper, and that did go up. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Went up to what? 23 MS. HARGIS: 31,4. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 31,4, okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I noticed we had an e-mail from 8-6-08 bwk 182 1 the Historical Commission; they wanted to be on our next 2 Commissioners Court agenda. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure; I didn't look. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe they're asking for 6 about double increase. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was eight supporting 8 pages to a one-page budget. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't they turn it in 11 like everybody else? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I found out this morning. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We know the answer to that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Economic development? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, there's an increase in that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The reason is there's a lot more 19 emphasis, City and County, on economic development with the 20 -- the CVB plan incentives, and I think it's in our best 21 interest to support that, because we need to enhance the 22 commercial industrial business tax base. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the extent that you 24 know, Judge, is the City going to match that also? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I know that same amount has been 8-6-08 bwk 183 1 requested of them. Insofar as exactly what they'll do, I 2 don't know. I do know the mayor, as you know, is very, very 3 strong on economic development. Chuck Coleman is very, very 4 strong on economic development. I think -- I think Scott 5 Gross is too. The other two, the newer ones, I don't have 6 that good of a read on. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than the experience we've had 9 -- or that you've had, much more than I. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm asking 'cause I'm 11 hopeful that they will. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I am too. I am too. I would report 13 to you on the KCAD, of course, contract was off of their -- 14 off of their budget. 15 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. That went down because they 16 picked up the school, so therefore our portion of their fees 17 went down. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not aware of any increase 19 requested by the Historical Commission. If -- why did they 20 want on the agenda? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know why he wants 22 on the agenda. Maybe -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He wants an increase, I think. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he wants a minor 25 increase. 8-6-08 bwk 184 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was reflected in this -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He wants $6,250. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go. That's the 4 number I remember. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He wants his name in the 7 paper. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me mention the Dietert Claim. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We like them. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do indeed. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I would mention that I got an 14 e-mail last week from Tina Woods, the Executive Director, -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was looking for it right 16 now. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and they applied for a state 18 grant on their Meals on Wheels program, and Tina said they 19 were expecting somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 13,000. 20 They received over 75,000. The reason they were able to 21 receive that large of an amount is because out of the pool of 22 funds, there weren't that many programs that had county 23 support, and therefore the number of recipients was pared 24 down considerably, and the amount they got went way up. And 25 she said because they got county support, they were able to 8-6-08 bwk 185 1 get this inordinate amount of grant money. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of leverage. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She was able to leverage 4 our money. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They served last year 7 52,660 Meals on Wheels, which is a Herculean task, really. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well-run operation. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unfortunately, they're 10 closing the restaurant. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, they did. They did close it 12 last Friday. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 14 MR. RUARK: Yeah, the Thursday through Sunday is no 15 longer -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just not paying off for 17 them. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that the one -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thursday through Saturday is 20 closing? 21 MR. RUARK: That's the only time they served meals. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's doing a good job. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, he does do a good job. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, what's the Emergency 25 Management? 8-6-08 bwk 186 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not yours, believe me. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know. We don't see it. 3 What does that pay for? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not much more than books or 5 something. 6 MS. HARGIS: It's books and supplies that they need 7 for -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fire Chief? 9 MS. HARGIS: -- Eric. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, Maloney. 11 MS. HARGIS: Isn't that -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is that First Responders? 14 MS. HARGIS: That's the First Responders. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We pay for First Responders 16 supplies, and that's a -- that's in the health and -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. That's not emergency 18 management. That's what I was wondering. 19 MS. HARGIS: I can't answer that right now. I 20 don't know. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because I know we even asked 22 them the other day, because the last couple of emergencies 23 were -- part of that was done, and as the emergency 24 management coordinator, the fire department, we asked them 25 why they wouldn't come out in the county. They said that's 8-6-08 bwk 187 1 not part of their deal; they're city. And so I'm just -- I'm 2 just curious, why do we spend $4,500 on emergency management? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. It'd be good to find 4 that out. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm curious as to the 7 public transportation. Not the account, but the fact that 8 they had only vouchered us for $3,100 so far. Is that -- I 9 guess that's credit, right, Ms Hargis? 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Interesting. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess the -- probably the first 13 step would be to find out what that almost $3,000 has been 14 spent on so far this year. 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, we're going to look -- first 16 let's look at the Emergency Management. Go to detail, Ken. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We can come back to that if need be. 18 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The Emergency Management looks 19 like we're making payments on -- let me see who the vendor 20 is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The Public Transportation -- 22 MS. HARGIS: To the City of Kerrville. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is an AACOG formula type thing, 24 and it was 8,000 here, and then last year we were pleasantly 25 surprised when they reallocated that formula down to 3,000. 8-6-08 bwk 188 1 I've not had any further -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll find that out, though. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- communication. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll check it out this 5 month. 6 MS. HARGIS: Judge. This is all going to the City 7 of Kerrville. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you know what? I bet that 9 is a supplement to the Fire Chief's salary for being the 10 Emergency Management Coordinator. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It could be. It could be. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just had that idea. I don't 13 know. 14 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Let's go to the other one, the 15 Public Transportation one now, Ken. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, whatever it is, I'll 17 find out where they're going with it. 18 MS. HARGIS: That's the one that's denoted, I 19 think, as the main -- are you the main one or is he the main 20 one? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fire Chief -- former Fire 22 Chief was the main one. Now the new Fire Chief, I 23 understand, and he's sitting back kind of watching. But he's 24 got fabulous, from what I've been told, experience and 25 credentials in emergency management, so we may see a lot of 8-6-08 bwk 189 1 changes coming about in that program, which I'm going to be 2 in favor of. 3 MS. HARGIS: That's AACOG. Did we -- do we pay for 4 buses or something? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you talking about? 6 MS. HARGIS: The public transportation. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That was to the Alamo Rural 8 Transportation system. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, A.R.T. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's a formula thing that comes 11 to us from AACOG. 12 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So you know what that is. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was 7998 or 14 something -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a couple of years ago, and that's 17 why we budgeted 8,000. 18 MS. HARGIS: But it's gone down now; you've got it 19 down to four. Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't know what the formula says 21 for this year. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll find out this month. 23 I'm going to be up there for a board meeting end of the 24 month. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Both of those figures are what we 8-6-08 bwk 190 1 call default figures. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I've not messed with them. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The new Fire Chief has 6 actually dealt with emergency management? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The old Fire Chief really 9 never did. He just kind of tinkered with it. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's part of my 11 understanding. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the real thing. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He has lots and lots of 14 experience. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And economic development, 16 you know, they've been talking about, and I agree, that the 17 residential and the businesses are out of kilter and business 18 needs to be propped up, but I've been hearing that for 20 19 years. We've pumped money in there, and I haven't seen 20 anything done. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I think -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now it's going up. I 23 know you weren't interested in that, but I thought I'd let 24 you know anyway. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's been suggested I meet 8-6-08 bwk 191 1 with the new Fire Chief over the emergency management. 2 That's why I was also curious. 3 MS. HARGIS: Judge, we do have one thing we forgot. 4 As you recall, we -- we do an ad in the -- not an ad, but an 5 article in the newspaper now -- every other week? 6 MS. LAVENDER: Every other week. 7 MS. HARGIS: And Ms. Lavender has been kind enough 8 to write that for us, and we pay her $125 a month, and we do 9 need to put that in. And we don't have -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's way too much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, did you look at 12 Nondepartmental? 13 MS. HARGIS: Don't have it in there, Judge, but I 14 can certainly put it in there. Would you like me to put it 15 in there under advertising? 409 is Nondepartmental. 16 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 17 MS. HARGIS: I don't think we have advertising. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz, where did you put your 19 personal press release person? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm showing under Account Number 21 486, that that $40,000 includes 125 per month, Rosa Lavender, 22 public info duties. 23 MS. HARGIS: Okay, I put it in and forgot about it. 24 Well, good for me. I just wanted to be sure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's part of the notes, so I think 8-6-08 bwk 192 1 I put it in. 2 MR. RUARK: Yes, you did. 3 MS. LAVENDER: Whether we wanted to do it before 4 the budget year, that was my question. Do we want to 5 continue to do it? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's good. It gets 7 good information out, if you write less about the Sheriff and 8 more about us. 9 MS. LAVENDER: I haven't written anything about the 10 Sheriff. I try to keep him out of it as much as possible. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want us to come back 12 here in the morning to get pictures of us or anything? 13 MS. LAVENDER: Not till you get something else 14 donated. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You and Todd hugging out there 16 at that meeting. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That did it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: She didn't get it, though. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Monumental occasion. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't wait to see the 22 paper on that. 23 MS. HARGIS: We still have a few things that we 24 haven't talked about that I'd like for y'all to kind of think 25 about. The parks is one, and what we're going to do about -- 8-6-08 bwk 193 1 about the Ingram Dam, as well as Flat Rock, and how much you 2 want me to put in there for that. I currently have 25,000 in 3 there for the parks. That may or may not be enough. I do 4 know you need to do quite a few things at the Ingram Dam, and 5 I guess I'm partial to that one since I go by it every day. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do need to talk about 7 parks. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't we receive the 9 Freese-Nichols report on how to fix the dam? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we received a report 11 that said we need to fix the dam. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not how to fix the dam. 14 MS. HARGIS: That's all you got for 19,000? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have to do two things like 17 the City does. We got to study them to death, then pay a 18 fortune to get them done. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Was not that report supposed to tell 20 us -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly where and what. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what we needed to do to fix them? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it told us that we 24 had a need, and that the solution was pumping some slurry 25 into the thing, both dams, and -- but it also suggested we go 8-6-08 bwk 194 1 out for contracts, estimates of cost. Am I correct, Bruce? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because the issue was that if 4 we pumped too much, we'll lift the whole dam apart. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you just go out there to 6 Halliburton and just say, "Just poke it full," they may raise 7 the whole cap off the dam. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would be 9 counterproductive. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't want to go with the 11 company that -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we let somebody else. 13 Need to have a controlled repair. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Needs to be a controlled 16 repair. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely, very much 18 so. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to address it. Now 20 would be a pretty good time. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in order to address 23 it now, we'd have to get an engineer in here to take that 24 report, go out there and make some assessment of what the 25 cost is going to be. 8-6-08 bwk 195 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we can't do that. I'm 2 thinking that for my end of it in Precinct 4, we need to get 3 the thing drained down where we can drive the spillway up 4 where we can get an accurate assessment done of what may or 5 may not be void in that area where the spillway is right in 6 the middle of the dam. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They didn't do that? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was wet; they couldn't do 9 it. They couldn't make any assessment when it was wet. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water flowing pretty good? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's still there. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. We can 13 contact an engineer, hope to get some sort of an assessment 14 of costs. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm thinking that we have our 16 canoe loaded this year -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- with expenses. Our canoe 19 has a big hole in it this year with expenses coming in faster 20 than the boat is going down the river. Might be -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the report 22 indicated that, you know, we need to do the repairs, but 23 we're not in imminent danger. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So if the Court wants us to 8-6-08 bwk 196 1 get an engineer in here to assess costs, we can do that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to plan on 3 assessing the costs during the budget year. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you're right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's fine. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's do the assessment, but 7 let's not plan on any repairs until the following year. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least get a budget number 10 for the following year. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could be a bunch or it could 13 be not a bunch. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's going be a bunch, 15 probably. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What we have before us is 17 astronomical. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We'll do that. 19 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Then I -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But back to parks, I'd like 21 to see some basic improvements in Flat Rock Lake Park. I had 22 -- as a matter of fact, I've got an agenda item coming up for 23 Monday to talk a little bit about the dogs and the people and 24 the park and so forth, but not that -- not that -- not that 25 I'm raising hell with them. I'm not. I'm really doing a 180 8-6-08 bwk 197 1 and taking them off. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thinking about it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Worse than cattle guards. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm thinking about fencing 6 off a small area for them and getting them out of the main 7 section. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know he doesn't like that 10 idea. Anyhow, I think there's some improvements -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're giving in to them. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are some improvements 13 that are necessary. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, are we talking 15 the verbiage "money"? 16 MS. HARGIS: I want a bird place. I want a place 17 to put my birds. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not talking about any money, 19 no. I -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to let them build 21 it for their dogs? 22 MS. HARGIS: That's a good idea. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On county land? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, are we going to have -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can see that this agenda 8-6-08 bwk 198 1 item is going down south. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I recommend, Bill, before we ever 3 get there on Monday -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to save yourself a 5 little embarrassment? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't need to have a 7 workshop next week. Maybe the following week? 8 MS. HARGIS: That would be great. If we could have 9 one the following week, give us a little time to get all this 10 lined up. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And at that point we'll know 12 how bad we've done, or what the damage is, whatever you want 13 to call it, how big the hole is. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't even want to look. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about a workshop on 16 the dams? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, talking about a workshop to 18 find out what our budget is and how we're going to pay for 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can tell you -- I 21 tell you, I have a thought. And this is the second one 22 today. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Second good one or bad one? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't matter. Just -- 25 I'm excited that I have one, period. 10 percent salary 8-6-08 bwk 199 1 increases, you can take them off all elected officials, far 2 as I'm concerned, and definitely take mine off. So, there's 3 a little mathematics you can play with over the weekend. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I agree with that 5 partially. I think the elected officials all got bigger than 6 everybody else increase last year. That needs to be factored 7 in, but I also think that you need to look at what we're 8 doing to employees making more than their bosses. 9 MS. HARGIS: Don't let the clerks catch up with 10 some of them. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. You got to 12 watch for those. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got to look at those two 14 things. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I know right now is that 16 I want the thousand dollars -- I'm sorry, the 10 percent 17 pulled off the elected officials. And -- but I do -- I do 18 want a COLA, because I do go to H.E.B. just like the Shaw of 19 Ingram does. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What if the COLA's more than 21 3 percent? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll take it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm with you on the COLA. 24 I think the COLA's top to bottom, but I don't -- I'm not 25 there for 10 percent across-the-board. Just not there. 8-6-08 bwk 200 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that mean exactly? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That means COLA. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Explain to me what you -- 4 are you mad about the dogs? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or what are you saying? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you saying only a 8 cost-of-living, and no 10 percent across the board? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm saying 10 percent, in 10 my book, is out of the equation, but a COLA across the board 11 is not out of the equation. Now, if it ends up being 12 10 percent, that's something we ought to talk about. I don't 13 know that it's going to get there. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you talking about just 15 elected officials? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're talking everybody. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Talking everybody. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're saying. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'm not there after 20 all. I think we need to look at -- we need to decide what 21 the COLA's going to be; I think that's one number. And I 22 think that all department heads and elected officials have 23 pared their budgets down so we can allow for a 10 percent 24 increase, and I think it's -- you know, you have to look at 25 ability to fund it. I'd like to see that number in there and 8-6-08 bwk 201 1 see how you pay for it, which is probably going to be a tax 2 increase, whatever that is. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If that tax increase is 5 5 percent, well, then no, I can't go along with it. But if 6 it's 2 percent, I'm not going to like it, but I probably -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two cents? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, 2 cents. I'm not going 9 to like it, but I can probably go along with it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to see what it's 11 going to cost us. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all I'm saying. 13 That's all I'm saying, when you start working up those 14 numbers, 'cause I'll bet you $3.27 we're heading somewhere in 15 that direction. And I will be willing to bet you that a COLA 16 is going to be 5 and a half, 5.5 or something like that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could go as high as 6, 18 perhaps. 19 MS. HARGIS: I think it's going higher, to 7 and a 20 half or 8 and a half. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You stay out of this. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's going to be whatever 23 it is. 24 MS. HARGIS: It is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's going to be whatever it 8-6-08 bwk 202 1 is; that's exactly right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I may say the COLA's going to 3 be that, but we're -- 4 MS. HYDE: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, you know, I just don't 6 think we need to -- you need to start thinking in that way, 7 because I really think that we will go in that direction. 8 And those numbers -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Well, what I would rather do is leave 10 what I have in there now, let y'all make a decision. I can 11 run it on spreadsheet separately, but to go in and hit each 12 budget every time is a little difficult. Why don't we kind 13 of do it in a spreadsheet, kind of a running total? Let us 14 do that, and then we can -- then you can kind of look at the 15 difference. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just take a gross payroll 17 and do 10 points, 9, 8, 7, or whatever. Is that what you're 18 talking about? 19 MS. HARGIS: The 10 points -- the 10 percent is in 20 there now, and if you look at the sheet of elected officials 21 that I gave y'all, there's not much difference between the 22 5 percent and the 10 percent. If you'll look at it, the 23 10 percent for all the elected officials that are on that 24 publication, it was 73,000, as I recall. And then if you 25 went to 5 percent, or 5.2, it only went down to 49,000. So, 8-6-08 bwk 203 1 basically, giving you the COLA or the 10 percent is -- is, 2 you know, about $23,000. $23,000 is a lot of money, but I'm 3 thinking -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because everybody -- I've got 5 to stand up here for them all, because they worked so hard at 6 cutting their budgets and doing such a good job this year. 7 And -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they're employees, so 9 the employees, the worker bees can have a 10 percent salary 10 increase. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what that's about, 13 and I'm there 100 percent. But I'm not there -- I don't 14 think we can afford all that other stuff. And all I'm trying 15 to do is give you a heads-up. 16 MS. HARGIS: No, I will do whatever you want me to 17 do, but I would prefer doing it on spreadsheets. I would 18 prefer doing it on spreadsheets rather than on the budget. 19 Let's leave it, because that summarizes it real quick. We 20 know what it is. To give you an idea, when we started out, 21 when the Judge and I first looked at it, it was a million, 22 six, and I zeroed that out. And that took a lot of Rusty's 23 help, and we looked at a lot of revenue, and everybody else 24 gave in and then the Judge cut. So, we cut a million, six 25 off of the original budget that you never saw. So, really, 8-6-08 bwk 204 1 what you're seeing now is -- is a pretty pared-down budget, 2 mostly just for some of the additional things that we've done 3 now. Fortunately for us today -- and I haven't had a chance 4 to go and add them all, but as I was telling y'all earlier, 5 it looks like we came out to the good on the City situation. 6 You know -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me how. 8 MS. HARGIS: Well, for one thing, we had already 9 budgeted the 62,5, because we had sent that over to the City; 10 that's what we were going to accept. Now we're getting 93, 11 so our revenue just went up 30-something thousand right 12 there. In addition to that, we put 215 for EMS, and it's 13 only 181, so we had picked up about $64,000. So, that -- 14 that ended up being a plus for us, because we already had all 15 that plugged into our budget. We already had everything they 16 told me, and Josh had already given me the figure of 215, so 17 that was actually a plus to us. So, you know -- you know, 18 that helped us to the tune of about $65,000. But -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The spreadsheet's fine. COLA 20 is more serious. 21 MS. HYDE: I understood, but I'm just -- in the 22 past, y'all have asked me what the COLA's are, and if I give 23 them to you, then you determine what you're going to give as 24 a COLA. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But when we get back together, 8-6-08 bwk 205 1 we need to have --- 2 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's so many different 4 things you can look at. We need to look at several of them, 5 as we have in the past, to see what the COLA component is, 6 however you look at it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I want to see. 8 I want to see what it looks like in terms of total dollars 9 against the payroll. 10 MS. HARGIS: We can do that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what those cost-of-living 12 figures that I've seen are doing in the last just two to 13 three months, they're starting to power curve up. 14 MS. HYDE: About two and a half. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: At the end -- including June, the 16 wholesale index was 9.2, prior 12 months. And, of course, a 17 lot of that started in late on them, which means your -- your 18 consumer index is going to follow that. And -- and the 19 numbers I've seen, looking at percentage increases for 20 month-to-month, it's power curving. So, if you interpolate 21 that -- if you interpolate that up to -- to the end of 22 September, you know, I don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you got now? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The August -- the July numbers 25 should be out pretty quick, shouldn't they? 8-6-08 bwk 206 1 MS. HYDE: Yeah. I thought they'd be out by now. 2 Remember the sheet that I gave you guys? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. HYDE: That's what the Judge is talking about. 5 If you trend it out, it's going up about two and a half 6 percent, or two and a half points every month. So, if you -- 7 if you extrapolate that out, that's how -- we're waiting to 8 see what this one does. If it continues on the trend, then 9 we've got a good -- good indicator. If it starts to come 10 down, it also is going to tell us a little bit of something, 11 but it could be as high as what we're already proposing. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could be as high as 13 what? 14 MS. HYDE: We're already proposing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if it is, it is. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one comment I'd like to 17 make about the 10 percent for the employees, if I can put my 18 two cents in, is in 28 years of being here, in about 20 years 19 of being involved in the budgeting process, it's the first 20 time that I've ever seen every department head come together 21 and be willing to give up stuff that they really needed so 22 their employees could get a good, decent raise across the 23 board. And they did this not just because we finally came to 24 our senses or whatever and decided we're all going to get 25 together. We're seeing what our employees are going through 8-6-08 bwk 207 1 on the county salaries, and what it is costing our employees 2 and what it's doing. And I'm -- I'm still amazed, after all 3 these years, that all the department heads and elected 4 officials came together and said, "This is what we want to 5 do," and then you saw them actually cut over a million 6 dollars out of their budgets so that we could do it. And so 7 that, I do think, needs to seriously try and stay in there. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that and I 9 appreciate that, and I'm not against taking care of our 10 employees, not at all. I want to see what the cost is going 11 to be. I want to know how it translates to the tax rate. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree there. You know, I 13 understand, and all of us knew that. But as far as priority 14 funding for the entire year, I think everybody agreed with 15 that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it could end up being 17 10 percent; I don't know. 18 MS. HARGIS: Thank you very much. 19 MS. HYDE: Whatever y'all determine it will be. 20 MS. HARGIS: We know that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got nothing further to 22 do here this afternoon, I gather. 23 MS. HARGIS: That's it. 24 MS. HYDE: So it's in two weeks, the Wednesday, at 25 9:00? Is that how we're going to do it? 8-6-08 bwk 208 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'm out of town for 2 the 12th through 20th. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll decide -- on Monday we'll 4 decide what we're going to do. 5 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We already adopted the budget, 7 went home. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all through? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We gave 20 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. Good. Good. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And we cut you out completely as you 12 requested. And all the elected officials are going to get 13 10. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The cost-of-living -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Other elected officials. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cost-of-living is 17 20 percent? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not for you. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's 12. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much are them taters and 21 milk out there at Mountain Home? Ms. Ellerbracht still got 22 them eggs? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think they're all rotten. 24 I don't think they're edible any more. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you very 8-6-08 bwk 209 1 much. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're welcome. Are we 3 adjourned, Judge? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did you adjourn this thing, 5 Judge? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No. I'm fixing to, now that 7 Buster's back. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll adjourn. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We'll be adjourned. 10 (Budget workshop was adjourned at 5:30 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 17 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 18 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 19 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 5th day of September, 20 2008. 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 8-6-08 bwk