1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Thursday, August 21 , 2008 11 10:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 21, 2008 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2008-09 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto for various County Departments 3 5 --- Adjourned 108 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Thursday, August 21, 2008, at 10:00 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go ahead and call to 8 order this Commissioners Court workshop posted and scheduled 9 for this time and date, Thursday August 21, 2008, at 10 a.m. 10 The agenda item is to review/discuss Fiscal Year 2008-09 11 budgets, and fiscal capital expenditure and personnel matters 12 related thereto for various departments -- county 13 departments. We've got a couple of budgets -- at least one 14 that I can recall -- that we haven't addressed, that we need 15 to do so. Extension Service is one that has been rolled 16 forward in a couple of instances, and let me see where that's 17 going to be. That's 10-665. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what it is, 10-665? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, but I don't know what -- I 20 don't know what page. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is on my Page 72. May be 22 75 on yours. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 72. You're right again. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't get to be right very 25 often. 8-21-08 bwk 4 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The information provided to me 2 indicated that Mr. Walston was not going to be available 3 today. I see Ms. Walls from his department here. The -- I 4 think the primary issue we've got to look at today deals with 5 the travel issue, weighing travel by mileage accumulation 6 versus acquisition of a vehicle. Is that pretty much where 7 we are? 8 MS. WALLS: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The budget as submitted, as 10 requested by Mr. Walston, reduces travel in, I think, all 11 three categories. 12 MS. WALLS: Yes, it does. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The Ag Extension Agent, the Family 14 and Consumer Science Agent travel, as well as the 4-H travel. 15 But the offset to that -- or more than an offset to that is 16 the acquisition of a vehicle and what's required for that. I 17 asked Mr. Walston to get us a number of options. What do you 18 have for us, Ms. Walls? 19 MS. WALLS: Well, I guess what me and him talked 20 about was, he talked about different options, between the -- 21 one option was maybe getting a van. I believe you talked to 22 him about that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MS. WALLS: I want to show you guys something real 25 quick on that. His concern with a van was that a lot of the 8-21-08 bwk 5 1 companies that sell vans, like Chevrolet and all them, they 2 won't sell youth groups because of -- thank you, ma'am -- 3 because of safety issues and liability issues. There's just 4 been a lot of accidents with them falling over, and people 5 are easily hurt -- a lot more easily hurt in a van than they 6 are in, like, a regular vehicle. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What about -- what about the -- I 8 understand that he and I talked about the 14-, 15-passenger 9 van, but what -- what he and I talked about looking at the 10 Buy Board on dealt with the 9- and 10-passenger vans, which 11 are -- 12 MS. WALLS: Well, his take on that was that the 13 9-passenger van is about the same as the Suburban that we 14 were looking at; it also holds nine people, and so he thought 15 it was kind of about the same, I guess. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything here on the 17 9-passenger van? 18 MS. WALLS: He didn't give me anything on that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, bottom line is, he's hung 20 up on the Suburban. 21 MS. WALLS: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that solves it for me. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I talked to him yesterday. 24 He called, and the Suburban will get better mileage, and the 25 van's a safer vehicle, according to what he's telling me. 8-21-08 bwk 6 1 MS. WALLS: He did say that to me. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's some validity. And 3 they do get better fuel mileage. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the purpose of this 5 vehicle is? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Out-of-county travel, taking 7 kids to various functions and judgings and stock shows. 8 Mostly for out-of-county is what he told me. There would be 9 very little in-county, was his exact statement. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- in the budget, there's 11 stock show travel. 12 MS. WALLS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's 4-H travel. There's 14 FCS travel. 15 MS. WALLS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aren't there some -- seems that 17 there's -- we've had -- there's another travel line item that 18 comes under with the state? 19 MS. WALLS: There's a conference travel line item 20 that is -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, those are the only 22 four that -- that include travel? 23 MS. WALLS: Yes. And those are for, like, motels 24 and meals for us, as agents, when we go to different events. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The line item here on 4-H 8-21-08 bwk 7 1 says 4-H Coordinator travel. 2 MS. WALLS: That's for Laurinda when she travels. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 4 MS. WALLS: That's for Laurinda when she travels. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's for her, period? 6 Not particularly youth? 7 MS. WALLS: That's for her to pay for hotels and 8 meals. We reduced it. It used to include gas for taking the 9 youth and all that stuff. The way we pay for most of our 4-H 10 youth to stay in hotels is through the Wild Game dinner; we 11 raise a lot of money that way, and we're able to offset that 12 cost for the kids. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, let's take -- 14 let's go from the 4-H Coordinator's travel line item. 15 MS. WALLS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is, by definition, 17 what you just said, and let's go back to a van for the 18 purpose of taking youth to various events. 19 MS. WALLS: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give me the nexus of that, 21 please. 22 MS. WALLS: Okay. The van or the -- whatever, the 23 vehicle would be used for the gas, basically. It would cover 24 the gas and it would cover -- whenever we go to different 25 events, we usually take at least five or six kids, and that 8-21-08 bwk 8 1 would require us taking two vehicles, whereas if we had a 2 vehicle, then we could only take one and it would cut down 3 cost for you guys. And the in-county as well, that 4-H 4 Coordinator position -- or that spot where it says 2,000 -- 5 yes, 2,000 is just to pay for her hotels and her meals while 6 she's out with the kids, and with other things, like when we 7 go to different things for trainings and stuff like that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The line item right above 9 4-H Coordinator Travel is FCS Travel Reimbursement. And what 10 is that? That's you? 11 MS. WALLS: That's for me. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 MS. WALLS: They previously didn't have that in 14 there. And we kind of looked at what I've done so far since 15 I've been here, and we took out all the -- like, the new 16 employee trainings and stuff like that, and that's what we 17 estimated it to be. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's out-of-county? 20 MS. WALLS: That's out-of-county only. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about the Extension 22 Agent himself? 23 MS. WALLS: Roy? The majority of the stuff that he 24 goes to is out-of-county and stock shows. He does go to some 25 of the 4-H events also and helps out with that stuff, but 8-21-08 bwk 9 1 that's why it says stock show travel. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's under stock show 3 travel? 4 MS. WALLS: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 MS. WALLS: That's going to pay for all of his 7 stock shows and any other 4-H events he has to go to. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- 9 MS. WALLS: For his hotels and meals. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the capital outlay, there's 11 10,000. Is that based on a lease? 12 MS. WALLS: It's a four-year -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four-year lease? 14 MS. WALLS: And then there's -- it's 9,000 for a 15 vehicle, and then there's 1,000 in there for a computer. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For? 17 MS. WALLS: A computer. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the thousand -- so, 19 basically, you've reduced the budget about, it appears, close 20 to 8,000, and you're adding in 9,000. So, you've reduced -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Per diem, 2,000 for the -- I 22 think its 3,800. It's a reduction in travel. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if you add those three 24 categories, it's -- the new -- what they're requesting is 25 eight. The next one over is -- what's that next column? 8-21-08 bwk 10 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Year-end projected, they're 3 looking at almost 15. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 37,000 difference between 5 year-end and -- and administration recommended. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like I'm missing a number 7 somewhere. If you add 7,645 and 7,322, they're at almost 8 15,000. And the other three makes 7,000, so it's an $8,000 9 difference. 10 MS. WALLS: Well, and the reason that those are so 11 high is we have to do a lot of van rentals and stuff to get 12 kids certain places. Then we have to -- a lot of the parents 13 will help travel -- help take kids, but they do it at the 14 cost of the gas, a tank of gas or whatever. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Walls, let me tell you what 16 bothers me. 17 MS. WALLS: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I had a rather lengthy discussion 19 with Roy, and I told him -- I'd asked him first if he had 20 checked for other -- I said, "What's your priority? Is it 21 persons or is it cargo you're looking at needing to move?" 22 No, it's persons. Okay. I said, "Have you looked at vans?" 23 He said, "No, I haven't." I said, "Let me encourage you to 24 do that." In fact, I asked him to bring me some options for 25 vans. I specifically told him I did not want him to bring me 8-21-08 bwk 11 1 options as to the larger vans because there were safety 2 problems with those vans. 3 MS. WALLS: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But there were other vans, the 5 smaller vans that carry nine passengers. 6 MS. WALLS: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? That even had room for cargo, 8 and I asked him to get me that information, bring me some 9 options. What you have brought us today that he gave to you 10 deals only with the larger vans. And the only other contact 11 I had with him was that he found some deal on a Suburban that 12 could somehow handle nine people. Now -- 13 MS. WALLS: I know that he did talk to the 14 dealership about the smaller vans, and they had a concern 15 with a nine-passenger -- nine-passengers van with the safety 16 as well. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Bigger ones? 18 MS. WALLS: No, he said the smaller ones as well. 19 So, I -- he didn't give me the information from the contact, 20 but it was the guy from, I believe, the Chevrolet place. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I asked him to provide me with 22 some options. Go on the Buy Board; there are a lot of those 23 vans on Buy Board. He hasn't done it. 24 MS. WALLS: I apologize for that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not willing to file a budget 8-21-08 bwk 12 1 that includes a vehicle until I look at options. 2 MS. WALLS: Okay. I understand that, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you're pretty straight 4 to the point this morning. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I asked him for it; he didn't 6 provide it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I guess Mr. Walston has 8 to -- about one more shot to get this resolved. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If at all. And he's going to have 10 to make a tremendous case, in my mind, because it's pretty 11 obvious to me that he's got his mind made up; don't confuse 12 him with the facts. I realize you're the messenger. 13 MS. WALLS: Okay. That's all I wanted to say. I 14 was -- like, I didn't really work on it. He did all of it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not going to shoot 16 the messenger. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless there's nobody else 18 to shoot. (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless we've just got an excess of 20 bullets and you're the only one. 21 MS. WALLS: Well, let's hope not, okay? Okay. 22 So -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Welcome to the wonderful 24 world of county budgeting. 25 MS. WALLS: I know. 8-21-08 bwk 13 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many kids usually travel? 2 MS. WALLS: Usually travel? It depends on the 3 event. I went to Roundup this year, where we -- they go to 4 state and they -- it's all the seniors, and they participate 5 in state competition, and we took probably eight or nine 6 kids, I think. And they go to a lot of the judging teams and 7 stuff like that, and that's about five or six. And then -- 8 let me think, what else? Oh, and then they go to, like, 9 camps and they go to congress and stuff like that. Congress 10 is usually only a couple of kids, 'cause it's hard to get 11 into congress. That was that presentation y'all saw. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 MS. WALLS: But there's about six of them. So, I 14 mean -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: There was another option that I 16 mentioned to Mr. Walston. I don't know whether he checked on 17 that. I doubt that he did. There are a number of -- all the 18 major makers are making what I'm going to call expanded 19 minivans; I forget the names of them. Ford Freestar and a 20 lot of those have third seats in them also. And I -- I 21 mentioned those to him, that he may want to take a look at 22 them. 23 MS. WALLS: He did mention it to me. I don't know. 24 He didn't -- he mentioned that he talked to you about it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8-21-08 bwk 14 1 MS. WALLS: And I didn't hear anything after that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The minivans, you know, are a 4 lot lower to the ground and a lot safer, and they will haul 5 up and down passengers. 6 MS. WALLS: And a lot of them have that hidden 7 cargo area. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I can understand where, on 9 some of the larger ones, particularly at this point in the 10 year, they're pretty reasonable, but we don't want to be 11 penny-wise and pound-foolish. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I agree with 13 the Judge; I think we need to have options. 14 MS. WALLS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, small vans, minivans, 16 and Suburbans to take a look at. I think it makes sense to 17 me to buy a vehicle, for a number of reasons. Insurance, 18 liability, county vehicle as opposed to a bunch of different 19 personal vehicles. So, I think it makes sense to go this 20 direction, but I think we need to have -- 21 MS. WALLS: More options. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a lot more information, 23 probably pretty quick. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I think we -- we need to try 25 and acquire a vehicle, because part of what she mentioned and 8-21-08 bwk 15 1 what Roy mentioned to me was part of the transporting is done 2 by -- by parents, and they're doing it for our benefit, and 3 in some cases, particularly since fuel cost has gone up, 4 they're being reimbursed or partially reimbursed for their 5 fuel cost. So -- where's the County Attorney? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Back there. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It creates some awkward 9 situations. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it does. 11 MS. WALLS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it at that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll not say further. Okay. 14 Anything else you want to talk about in your budget, 15 Ms. Walls? 16 MS. WALLS: He wanted me to mention the computer 17 thing for capital outlay. There's $1,000 in there for a 18 computer. He said you told him to talk to Mr. Trolinger. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 20 MS. WALLS: The computer is going to be used for me 21 for when I travel, with -- a laptop computer is what we're 22 looking for. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's not a desktop? 24 MS. WALLS: No. And it's also going to be used for 25 presentations and stuff within the community whenever I have 8-21-08 bwk 16 1 to go out. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. For Power Points? 3 MS. WALLS: Uh-huh, exactly. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. WALLS: He talked to Mr. Trolinger; he said 6 they didn't have one, so I don't know how that affects what 7 you guys talked about, but he wanted me to mention it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: My question to Mr. Trolinger and/or 9 Ms. Hargis would be, in the I.T. portion of this major 10 capital infusion of funds that we got, is there room to 11 acquire another laptop? 12 MR. TROLINGER: The purchasing is complete and 13 there is not any money remaining, and there is not a laptop 14 prepurchased, so it does need to remain in the budget. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, those funds have been 16 exhausted? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MS. HARGIS: We might have some in software, but -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 21 MS. HARGIS: We might have some in software. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: In which line? 23 MS. HARGIS: Software. There was an I.T. part -- 24 I.T. has software, so there could be some in there, but I 25 don't know that for a little bit, 'cause we haven't finished 8-21-08 bwk 17 1 all of our -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All those numbers aren't in 3 yet? 4 MS. HARGIS: No. 5 MR. TROLINGER: By my spreadsheet, we're finished 6 with the -- the hardware portion, but, of course, it could be 7 moved from somewhere else, but the hardware portion we're 8 finished with. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are there -- there's some 10 other categories in the I.T. that may be available to -- what 11 are we looking at, cost-wise? $1,000? $1,500 here? 12 MS. WALLS: We put in for 1,000, but -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,000. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Can she get it done for -- can we 16 get it done for 1,000? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there any money remaining 20 in this year's budget that might be transferred and expended 21 for that purpose before the end of the year? 22 MS. WALLS: From our budget? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 24 MS. WALLS: I believe that there might be some 25 extra money in our budget. I can't say exactly where, but -- 8-21-08 bwk 18 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hargis could tell you. 2 MS. HARGIS: It's pretty tight. I have to look. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if there's $1,000 4 available, we maybe could get it out of this year's budget 5 instead of having to put it on next year's budget. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Telephone looks like it's running a 8 little bit under. They're budgeted 6,000, and they're only 9 at 35 through -- I'm not sure when that's -- 10 MR. TROLINGER: That might have been the cell phone 11 plan savings. That's -- I'm thinking about the savings we 12 had on cell phones. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. I don't think we got as 14 much savings out of their department at we did on some 15 others, but -- 16 MR. TROLINGER: I see. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- we got some. But it appears 18 that -- 19 MS. WALLS: We talk a lot. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- there may be some there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, the thing about that, 22 if you can find it out of this year's budget, good idea; 23 probably go ahead and get your computer now. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do a budget amendment and 25 let's do it. 8-21-08 bwk 19 1 MS. WALLS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 3 MS. WALLS: That's all I got. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 5 MS. WALLS: Thank you guys. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: One item that was brought up at our 8 last meeting was the Historical Commission. They -- they 9 currently have a budget of $3,500, or have had, and they 10 brought in the documentation to request 6,500. I wasn't 11 present for that presentation. I don't know what response 12 the Court -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Court didn't have a 14 response, except that it would be taken up under budget. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's get specific here. 16 That we would turn it over to the County Judge. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, that's right. He 18 did -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And he would do his job, and 20 then we will deal with it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that there were eight 22 pages of supporting documents for a $6,000 budget. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was when he was gone for 24 a while. He was gone. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling us that you 8-21-08 bwk 20 1 haven't called that man and cut his budget? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I haven't cut it. I put in what 3 he had last year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably about where 5 it is. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Was the question posed to him to -- 8 on any of their activities dealing with fundraisers or 9 anything of that nature? Was that issue raised with him? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There were a couple of 12 questions raised. I don't have a budget with me, but one of 13 them that came up -- there was two of them I can recall. One 14 of them had to do with oral histories, where they'd asked for 15 a sizeable increase in that category of oral history. Wanted 16 to know how many they had done in the previous year, what the 17 unit cost was for doing oral histories, and seemed to me like 18 that was somewhat overkill based on their experience 19 year-to-date. Secondly, they asked for a significant 20 increase in -- under the category Financial. Wanted to know 21 what that was. They don't manage their finances; the County 22 Auditor does, essentially. And it turned out that the 23 explanation was it had to do with grant writing, and so to 24 me, there's a question mark there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other part of it was on 8-21-08 bwk 21 1 -- he made the statement that, I guess, the Board of 2 Directors has -- or the Friends or someone has decided that 3 all available revenues from outside sources is going to the 4 fence at the Union Church, and that's their -- a lot of their 5 money is going to that from their outside areas. I asked him 6 about why can't they raise some money, and that's -- he said, 7 well, it's going to that right now. And I guess I look at it 8 as, I appreciate the direction Mr. Luther's taking with the 9 historical foundation; I think he's doing some things that 10 have been neglected in the past. I think he's concentrating 11 on some areas like Camp Verde that -- I think I agree with 12 him; I think that's very important. I think there's a lot to 13 do there. I don't mind giving him a slight increase. I 14 don't think it needs to be near -- I think what -- you know, 15 3,500 last year; I wouldn't mind going up to 4,000, because 16 he is doing more than they have done -- I've seen them do in 17 the past, and I appreciate that, and he's doing a lot of 18 work, and in reality, spending a fair amount of his own money 19 on some of this stuff. But I think that the -- I think that 20 the whole association needs to get more involved, and if they 21 agree, and I presume they agree with going the direction 22 Mr. Luther wants to take them, they need to find some of this 23 funding out of their other revenue sources, and not put 100 24 percent of it, necessarily, maybe into the fence, the fence 25 project at the Union Church. They need to put funds in some 8-21-08 bwk 22 1 of this other stuff as well. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think the 3 Commission itself doesn't have the authority to raise funds. 4 That's what I've always been given to understand. But that's 5 why they've set up the -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Friends. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- subordinate Friends 8 group, for the purpose of fundraising. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the Friends group could 10 then give the Historical Commission some funds. I would 11 expect -- I wouldn't know why they couldn't do it with the 12 county funds for this purpose. And I think that -- you know, 13 we've talked about membership and things of that nature, and 14 they've never -- don't really have that. I think they need 15 to explore other ways of generating some revenue. But I 16 think I do want to support the direction they seem to be 17 going. It's a little bit more active in doing things than 18 I -- that's kind of where I am on it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's in the current 20 budget, Judge? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 3,500, which is what they -- what 22 they were -- their budget for last year, and that's what I 23 plugged in for this year. But I -- you know, essentially, 24 the Court has some different figures, so we need to kind of 25 think about what that is now. 8-21-08 bwk 23 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- I pretty much agree 2 with what's been said at this table. They're going in a 3 wonderful direction. My whole thing is, though, I think the 4 steps are a little bit big. If we just -- if we take a 5 little more baby steps toward these things, I think we 6 accomplish more, in my opinion. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your thought about increasing 8 it by 500? 1,000? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1,000 is what I had on my 10 mind. But -- how much is it this year? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 35. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They asked for 6,250. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't object to taking 15 it to five. I wouldn't go beyond that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five's fine. That's great. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought 6,500 was what they asked 18 for. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought it was 6,250. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 6,250 is what you -- I've got 21 their budget pulled up. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've gone from 500 to 1,000; 24 all of a sudden, we're at 1,500. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: 5,000, yeah. 8-21-08 bwk 24 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 4,500? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that would be 1,000. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about 4,250? 5 (Laughter.) How about leaving it alone? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm okay with that. Incremental 8 increase by 1,000 acceptable, gentlemen? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the little ones that 14 are tough. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the big ones. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What loose ends do we have, 20 gentlemen? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have -- I had -- 22 actually had a couple of thoughts. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Wonderful. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I had three 25 yesterday. (Laughter.) And had one this morning, and it's 8-21-08 bwk 25 1 kind of becoming a habit for me. I don't -- can't quite 2 understand all that, but I get pretty excited, though. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: You need to watch your stress level. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's true. That is 5 true. I'm -- medication is keeping it down, though. I want 6 to talk about our salary increase. I see the -- I see that 7 the -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- 10 percent is built in 10 this propaganda sheet here. I simply want to take the 11 10 percent out of the elected officials' and the department 12 heads' salary, give it to the worker bees. And the 13 department heads and the elected officials get a COLA, 14 whatever the -- it's probably 12, 15 percent by now -- not 15 really. But it's something. And -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Fast approaching that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's what I want. 18 That's what I want done. I'm just saying that to get it out 19 on the table and let's talk about it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the -- what you've been 21 given is a -- I asked the Auditor to prepare a -- 22 MS. HYDE: Pass those around. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: More propaganda? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, it is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Roll-up for everything as to the 8-21-08 bwk 26 1 10 percent, and then a 7 and a half. These are based upon 2 the -- the position schedule, and that's why we call them 3 "adjusted." And then 5 percent, and then we've got 4 increments of 1 percent and a half percent. Some of you may 5 recall, I think it was day before yesterday, the -- there was 6 a release to the national news media, what -- what the 7 inflation rate was for July, and that -- that news was that 8 it was the highest it had been in 30 years. And, secondly, 9 the -- the price indexes were up more than -- more than 10 double than what they expected. I have been watching these 11 index numbers that we've been following on -- on Consumer 12 Price Index, wholesale price indexes, and, of course, 13 consumer prices are going to follow that. And in the last 14 few months, they seem to be in a power curve, going up. 15 They've been kind of steadily going up, but they seem to be 16 in a power curve now. The latest information that we got for 17 July, I think, is included in what -- what Ms. Hyde has just 18 given you, and then on the back side, she has extrapolated 19 that trend. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out to where? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: End of the year. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it should just be through -- 23 through September. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But if -- if you take it through 8-21-08 bwk 27 1 September -- that's just through September on the 2 calculations that you've got, isn't it, for this fiscal year? 3 MS. HYDE: I took it through end of year. I went 4 ahead and did a full 12 months. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: We've got seven down, and that left 7 five. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a 12-month period, not -- not 9 a 15-month period? 10 MS. HYDE: I used the same thing that the I.R.S. 11 uses. This is the same thing coming directly off of B.L.S. 12 This is how the I.R.S. is figuring it. We'll use it for 13 Social Security this year. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your statement that it may be 15 12 percent is -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is not too far off the mark. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's gotten up a little 19 quicker than I thought it was. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 9.81? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That's that power curve. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. That -- on an 23 annualized basis. Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the number is what the 25 number is. 8-21-08 bwk 28 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know? I mean, you can't 3 lose sight of what we're talking about, and that -- that 4 point of vision out there is everybody in this room has to go 5 to H.E.B., just like the Shah of Iran does. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you got to buy milk and 8 you got to buy bread and you've got to buy gasoline, et 9 cetera, and so forth and so on, just like everybody else 10 does. So, it is what it is. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was a story in the 12 Express News this morning talking about food prices alone -- 13 set aside fuel and other things that affect the domestic 14 product, but food prices alone are 6 percent up. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's driven by fuel, 16 though, isn't it? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a lot of it, yes, and 18 the cost of -- of grains and everything else. But what 19 you're paying for the supermarket today is 6 percent more 20 than you paid for a year ago, on balance. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have somewhere on the 22 computer that I can readily access where we are with our 23 budget? Where we are right now? I mean, I want to -- I'd 24 like to see -- I agree with Buster from the standpoint on the 25 10 percent part. I think that the last year, we went through 8-21-08 bwk 29 1 elected officials/department heads and did a salary 2 adjustment, kind of called it a merit increase, plus a COLA, 3 so I -- I really think the 10 percent, as we talked about 4 earlier, to me, is for the employees, not the elected 5 officials and department heads. I think everybody should get 6 a COLA, but we're getting to the point that I think that, you 7 know, I need to look at some bottom line numbers. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I think she can give you a rough 9 idea at this point. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It may not be exact, 11 but close enough that we can start making some decisions. 12 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I would just add, the 13 department heads did not get -- it was only the elected 14 officials that got the extra money. The department heads 15 only got the COLA last year. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, then, I think 17 that -- I don't have a problem; I think elected officials can 18 come out. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need one more copy here. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you talk -- I mean, I'll 21 be the bad guy here for a minute. But if you talk about 22 department heads, we have some department heads that are -- 23 when you talk about a percentage, any percentage, you're 24 talking about some major money. They have a high salary, and 25 when you start tacking on that 10 percent, it goes way up 8-21-08 bwk 30 1 there. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know. So, I don't know 4 if you -- and that -- that's kind of the reason I jumped on 5 the department heads too, because you're talking about some 6 major money in places, you know? Just like -- well -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- but also, I think also 8 we've done a much better job keeping department heads in 9 line. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. I think we've 11 done -- I think we've done an excellent job in the last four 12 or five years of trying to manage this thing and get 13 everybody what they need to -- to live. I don't want to go 14 crazy. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, I think there's 16 not going to be a great deal of difference when it all shakes 17 out at the bottom of the funnel. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably not. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Because of these inflationary 20 pressures, and -- and indexes rising the way they are, for 21 purposes of budgetary planning and where we are, we can 22 probably start out as if everybody got the same 10 percent 23 and work from there. And it's going to be, under your 24 proposal, probably only slightly less for the elected 25 officials and department heads, so it's probably not going to 8-21-08 bwk 31 1 be a major difference. But there is a -- we had a data sheet 2 dealing with elected officials only. Of course, we're 3 required by law to file if there's going to be any increases 4 on elected officials, and we've got one here that shows -- it 5 was an older sheet, where it figured only at 10 percent and 5 6 percent, and then it can be extrapolated in between there. 7 MR. RUARK: We've got another one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have -- I should probably 9 look at one of these. The next one that I'm going to want, 10 do we have a fund balance sheet? 11 MS. HARGIS: I gave you that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got it right here. You 13 gave it to us. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one? This one? 15 MS. HARGIS: This one. It's a summary. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a summary, but is it -- 17 MS. HARGIS: If you take the summary for the 18 general fund, last column, recommended budget, that's what 19 you want to look at. The other -- the other fund that would 20 have salaries in it is this Fund 15. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but -- okay. But go to 22 the Fund 10. 23 MS. HARGIS: Uh-huh. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It shows 821,000. 25 MS. HARGIS: In the hole. 8-21-08 bwk 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what's the balance in that 2 account, so to speak, right now? I mean, we're not -- we got 3 to have -- we generally -- 4 MS. HARGIS: The balance in the current one would 5 be the current -- under the current budget, which is Fund 10, 6 if you go to the fourth column, -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, I mean -- 8 MS. HARGIS: -- that's actual figures right there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're projecting 10 Fund 10 to be $100,000 over -- or on the plus side, correct? 11 MS. HARGIS: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Projected year-end. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're adding money to 14 reserves this year? 15 MS. HARGIS: A little bit. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A little bit into reserves, and 17 we projected going into the budget of having a $530,000 18 deficit? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we end up with 100,000, so 21 we've -- 22 MS. HARGIS: I think we've actually projected -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $630,000 swing from last 24 year's budget. 25 MS. HARGIS: If you looked at the summary sheet 8-21-08 bwk 33 1 that we included, we were going to use about -- about three, 2 350 -- I think 350 of the fund balance last year. And one of 3 the things that helped us last year was taking all the 4 capital out -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MS. HARGIS: -- and using the loan, so that -- that 7 really released a lot of money there. I have also one more 8 sheet. This is the one that -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This number just includes the 10 10 percent for everybody? 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Good question, Jon. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What, on Fund 10? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 15 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. So, it does -- so you can see 16 that we had -- we cut the budget enough that -- that not all 17 of the salaries are -- and part of that, actually, the -- 18 there's another sheet -- that's the one you got. You're 19 familiar with it. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 MS. HARGIS: Part of the 800, the salaries actually 22 came at 711. 711,000. After your last budget hearing, you 23 may recall you added some positions, and you also added some 24 money for a capital item, and those -- those got you up to 25 the 821. So, the 711 -- and you can see that from the salary 8-21-08 bwk 34 1 sheet, the 711 is way under what the actual cost of this -- 2 of the salary increases are. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which sheet are you talking 4 to? 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay. If you look at the summary 6 sheet which reflects on Fund 10, $821,000 shortfall. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 8 MS. HARGIS: And then you look at the sheet that 9 you got for all the salaries, and the total cost of that -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 11 MS. HARGIS: -- is actually 1,048,681. But, in 12 fact, in the budget we're only 711, so you can see we have 13 cut the budget sufficient -- more than sufficient to take on 14 the 10 percent. So, when you're looking at the deficit, it's 15 still below what the actual cost of -- of the 10 percent is. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. And on this sheet -- 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the -- so -- and this is all 19 assuming no tax increase? 20 MS. HARGIS: That's no tax increase. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which sheet are you looking 22 at? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Summary. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The summary sheet. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 8-21-08 bwk 35 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're -- our, I guess, 2 rule-of-thumb goal has been to keep it at 25 percent reserve, 3 and 20 percent -- we had 25 as, I guess, the adopted goal, 4 but I don't think we've been there the last four or five 5 years. We've been around 18 to 20. 6 MS. HARGIS: You were at 17 when we went in, and I 7 checked it. Actually, this one, we ended up being at about 8 18 and 20. At the bottom -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're running -- recent 10 years, anyway -- about 17; just under 20 percent. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. You have not been at the 25, 12 from any of the sheets that I can see. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From your standpoint of being 14 our auditor, are we safe? 15 MS. HARGIS: 25 percent is a very heavy number. 16 I -- you know, I'm usually -- you know, 15 to 25 percent is 17 healthy. No less than 15, but all the way up to 25 percent 18 is a pretty healthy number. The only reason that I think 19 that counties need to be a little bit more cautious is -- is 20 if we have a big trial, and that's one of the things we 21 wouldn't want to have in reserve for something like that. 22 But bond market wise, you're healthy. I mean, they look at 23 10 percent as being healthy. As an auditor, you know, 15. 24 I'd love 25, but that's a hard number to fit in today's 25 economy and keeping the tax rate down. Also, when we have -- 8-21-08 bwk 36 1 as I've looked back in time, when you had the Juvenile 2 Detention Center, and you -- that's actually where the fund 3 balance got hit, and you haven't actually had the opportunity 4 to -- to build that back up. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We've built it back up -- 6 MS. HARGIS: Some. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- some. 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's continuing to do better 10 than budgeted. 11 MS. HARGIS: It is continuing. I mean, if you 12 look, it was a million, then it went down to, like -- I think 13 it was 500, actual numbers. Then it went to three, and then 14 this year, I believe we're going to come in positive. So -- 15 you know, so I think we're doing a lot better. It's just 16 kind of taken an upward curve, because you're being very 17 careful with maintaining the budget within -- the main thing 18 is you've maintained the budget itself, and you'll be fine, 19 because then you won't erode your fund balance. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, the -- the reserve balance, the 21 percentage, heretofore, that reserve has been kicking 22 somewhere around 20 percent, year before last and further 23 back, has it not? 24 MS. HARGIS: It was around -- I think as far as 25 21 percent is as high as I got when -- when I went back on 8-21-08 bwk 37 1 the data that I currently have. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Wasn't it about 19.6 for the 3 year -- one of those years also? 4 MS. HARGIS: May have been the year before I got 5 here was at 19.6. Last year I looked back, and when we did 6 the budget, and if you take the budget work, we're at 7 18 percent, and then we actually -- when we got through with 8 it, we lowered the expenses, because we took out the capital, 9 so we got up to 19. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we've been going into 11 most of the recent years' budgets probably somewhere 17 to 12 19; we're coming out 19 to 20, 21. I think it's kind of -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of my 14 recollection. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, we're around 20. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: My concern is, Mr. Henderson, our 17 financial adviser at RBC Capital, of course -- did everybody 18 get -- 19 MS. HARGIS: No. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I just got this. 21 MS. HARGIS: He just got that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And I've had some communications 23 with him, and, of course, he talks about a -- a number of 24 things, and he refers to his recommendation to us last year. 25 His focus last year seemed to be on the cumulative impact 8-21-08 bwk 38 1 that the over-65 tax freeze was having on us. And if you'll 2 recall, last year he -- he said you'll be able to handle it 3 this year and probably next, but from a financial planning 4 standpoint and -- and business judgment standpoint, he 5 recommended that in order to position ourselves with not only 6 the current impact, but the future impact, he recommended 7 that we increase the tax rate last year to put ourselves in 8 that position. That, of course, would -- would have -- had 9 that occurred, that portion of the -- of the over-65 tax 10 freeze would have rolled in at the higher tax rate. His -- 11 the discussions we've had this year is that every year you 12 delay doing that, that you delay increasing that tax rate 13 to -- to take into account that over-65 tax freeze, you're 14 losing more tax base every single time you do that. And he 15 said if you've cut costs as far as you can go, you have only 16 two ways to go. One is to utilize reserves, and the other is 17 to increase the tax rate. 18 His communication to me this year has been fairly 19 strongly emphasizing being very cautious about utilizing 20 reserves because of the scrutiny of the credit markets and 21 what our reserve rates were at the time we -- we borrowed 22 some of these funds, and what our reserve rates then and our 23 bond covenants are, and our debt obligations are, covenants 24 we made. So, he strongly recommended against utilizing 25 reserves. 8-21-08 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we're ahead of him 2 on that. I think that would be way down the list of -- but 3 my question would be, you know, if you consider -- if you 4 consider a tax increase to stay up with the freeze, do we 5 know what those firm numbers are of how -- the amount that 6 the tax freeze, over-65, how -- what number -- how does it 7 affect us? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Yes, we do. Yeah, I've got it 9 in there, and currently, if you use the tax rate that you 10 have today and the value that those properties received, that 11 we have lost $770,000. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you could stand there 13 and tell us today, if we were going to balance that out with 14 the tax increase, you could tell us what that increase would 15 be? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: About three cents. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just under three cents. 20 Between -- well, three cents. 21 MS. HARGIS: Now -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to have to erase 23 that word "about" at some point. What is it going to be? 24 MS. HARGIS: Three cents. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8-21-08 bwk 40 1 MS. HARGIS: Now -- now, you will level out with 2 the tax freeze. Because what you've done -- if you had taken 3 those little baby steps the first year, you would be there 4 today and it would level. At some point it will level, but 5 right now it's not because of some of the larger valuations 6 and some of the newer property coming on it. And, actually, 7 if you look at the tax revenue we got from the over-65 three 8 years ago as to today, their tax dollars are more and their 9 values are here, but they're way down here. And they 10 actually show -- the Appraisal district actually keeps up 11 with that, and they actually showed us on there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty cool. So, are 13 we in our third year? 14 MS. HARGIS: You're actually in your -- I believe 15 coming into your fourth year. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Going into the fourth. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? My gosh. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably about six years, 19 seven years before it levels. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 MS. HARGIS: It will begin to level. And I think, 22 again, because it was something new to not just you, but the 23 entire state of Texas, that I don't think they realized, you 24 know, even the school districts, that what happened in the 25 school districts that I've been told by some of the older 8-21-08 bwk 41 1 administrators is that it took huge tax increases to get it 2 back, and that's one of the reasons why our tax -- school 3 taxes are so high. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's what I'm 5 afraid of, is that if we -- if we wait and don't pay 6 attention to Mr. Henderson, at some point down the road, 7 we're talking about a huge tax increase. 8 MS. HARGIS: Well, and there is something else. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me say one other thing. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Time is fun when you're 12 having flies. 13 MS. HARGIS: Sure. The other down side to the 14 economy and to a lot of things that have happened in the 15 marketplace with the Fannie Mae's and the Freddie Mac's is 16 that all of the rating agencies have now downgraded everyone. 17 We haven't received anything yet, but -- I'm sure Bob 18 Henderson had. But I got a call from the City, and they have 19 been downgraded, so that means that pretty much everybody is 20 downgraded, and that is a very hard hurdle to get over. And 21 also, the insurance companies that have been out there to 22 give the -- you buy the insurance to guarantee a positive 23 rate, are not willing -- there's not as many agencies out 24 there even willing to sell you the insurance to give you an A 25 rating. The City has gone down one whole rating, and it took 8-21-08 bwk 42 1 them a long time to get to that, and now they've been knocked 2 down, not by anything they did on their own, but -- but 3 because of that. Now, Bob Henderson hasn't told me ours has 4 gone down, but I have a feeling it has. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I think if he'd been made aware 6 that it had been, I think he would have let us know. 7 MS. HARGIS: But it is something -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: One of the points in his letter was 9 that they are watching that very, very closely, and that we 10 have covenants in our debt instruments that we warrant that 11 we will maintain sufficient reserves. And, of course, the 12 reserves that they were looking at were around the 20 percent 13 level, and that's what they're looking for, and they -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, the financial advisers all like 15 25 percent, and everybody kind of chokes because there's a 16 happy medium between 15 and 25, and I think the happy medium 17 for us would be around between 19 and 20 percent. And -- and 18 that gives us a good position in the marketplace, as well as 19 it gives us a good position if we have a problem. And this 20 is -- you know, we all have Listserv's; I'm sure you're 21 familiar with those. And one of the things that I've seen 22 recently on mine with a lot of the auditors is where they've 23 had a large murder case or something come along and they 24 didn't set aside a healthy reserve, they've got a problem. 25 So, you know, I think it's a twofold reserve, but it's a 8-21-08 bwk 43 1 healthy reserve. It's not -- your friends down the street 2 only keep 5 percent, and that really worried me. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way, or that way? 5 MS. HARGIS: That way. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the policy that this court 7 has established is 25 percent, as recommended by the 8 Comptroller of Public Accounts. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think the -- the credit 11 agencies, the bond rating agencies, S & P's, so forth, would 12 be certainly more pleased in looking at what they're going to 13 do with our rating if it's something in excess of 20 percent, 14 especially if we happen to have what our policy calls for, 15 which is 25. Don't you think? 16 MS. HARGIS: They do look at that. Okay, that's 17 one of the elements. It's not all the elements, but it is 18 one of the stronger elements. A good fund balance shows that 19 you're several things to them; that you're a good manager of 20 your funds, that there are funds available for disasters and 21 things of this nature. So, there's several elements that go 22 into why that fund balance needs to be there. But -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hear you saying, though, 24 that 25 percent is a difficult number to reach. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: This year. 8-21-08 bwk 44 1 MS. HARGIS: This year. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Basically, any time. 3 But you -- 4 MS. HARGIS: You would probably be fairly close to 5 that. However, again -- and I hate to reiterate, 'cause I 6 didn't live here and I didn't -- but when the tax freeze came 7 into being, everyone needed to realize that they were 8 actually taking a tax reduction in the overall base, and 9 that's where we needed to begin to build the base. Because 10 once it levels, then you're -- because at that point, you -- 11 by not increasing your tax rate, at that point you were 12 really -- it's kind of like eroding those funds, because you 13 weren't replacing -- you weren't keeping it at the same 14 level. Remember, the effective rate is the same amount of 15 dollars as you had last year. Well, because of the freeze, 16 your effective rate is actually changed, because of the way 17 it's calculated, and Diane can speak to that a little bit 18 more. You have to deduct that property, so it's -- it's 19 making the effective rate a little bit different than it 20 would have been in the past. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you know, there's 22 folks out there in the community that would -- I don't know 23 what the -- what the point is, but it's some -- probably 24 somewhere around the 25 percent that they would say, "You 25 guys are just letting way too much money just sit around." 8-21-08 bwk 45 1 It's just sitting there, and not using it properly. But I'm 2 not real concerned about that, but I am real concerned about 3 going outside this building and running into my constituents 4 out there, where I gave myself a 10 percent raise this year 5 and a 3 percent last year, and now I'm going to raise their 6 taxes three cents. Huh-uh. Ain't going to happen out of 7 this chair; I can tell you that. That's hard to chew. I can 8 see the 25 percent being -- "Well, you guys are letting the 9 money sit around up there a little bit too much." I can -- I 10 can discuss that with them. But giving myself a salary 11 increase like this, I can't. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I don't think there's any way 13 we can get to the 25 percent, or even -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- remotely close to that. But the 16 discussions I've had with -- with folks in the community, and 17 particularly those that have businesses to run, that have 18 employees and manage employees, the ones I've talked to fully 19 understand the need to bring our people up. They 20 understand -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they are lagging behind and they 23 need to be brought up, and they fully understand that. They 24 know what it costs when you lose an employee that has been 25 with you, that knows your business, that is experienced and 8-21-08 bwk 46 1 has the skills necessary to do what it takes to operate their 2 business. I've been told that right off the bat, there is a 3 fixed cost just to put someone in place for a single employee 4 of any kind of $2,500. Then some of the figures show and the 5 studies show that it may cost you up to three times what you 6 were paying that old employee to get the new one up to the 7 skill level of the one you lost. So, they understand the 8 need to bring our people up to a competitive level, or at 9 least the bottom of parity, which is -- which this 10 percent 10 approaches. I'm not sure it gets it there. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But it approaches it and gets very 13 close, if it doesn't get to the bottom of that parity level. 14 I think the Sheriff has had one patrol position that's been 15 open for almost a year now. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Has been for a full year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But, you know, that's unheard of. 18 The -- the exit interviews, as we've heard from Ms. Hyde, 19 that have been conducted of employees that have voluntarily 20 left employment did so because of compensation. They can go 21 somewhere else and get substantially the same benefits, but 22 more money. They got to think about their families. I 23 appreciate their loyalty to this point, and -- but we've got 24 to do what it takes to retain our employees. You know, if -- 25 if they turn you and I out, the loss is not nearly as great 8-21-08 bwk 47 1 than if we lose the core of what keeps this machine running, 2 and that's the employees. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let's not get carried 5 away there. But -- (Laughter.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm speaking for myself. I'll speak 7 for myself. If they turn me out -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you're right. I think 9 we should do everything we can -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to do exactly what you're 12 saying. I'm there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But, by the same token -- but, by 14 the same token, the public doesn't expect us to not be able 15 to take care of the same necessities for our families as 16 these employees do. So, I have absolutely no shame in being 17 compensated and increased to a level that takes that into 18 account. I don't -- I don't have a problem facing the public 19 at all on that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you, Judge, 21 and I don't either. The people I've talked to essentially 22 understand that the needs of our -- of our employee family 23 are just as critical as their own needs are. There's no 24 disparity at all. There's no difference in anybody going to 25 the grocery store and buying their groceries or fueling up 8-21-08 bwk 48 1 their truck at the fuel station, whatever. But -- and I 2 agree with your comments on everybody else as well. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At what point are we going 4 to -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let the cat out of the bag? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- settle on a COLA? We have 7 some numbers here, and it seems -- seems to me -- I mean, you 8 know, once I figure out a COLA, then -- I mean, on the 9 employee side, I'm in favor of a 10 percent, and I'm in favor 10 of the elected officials and department heads getting a COLA 11 only. I'd like to see that number. We can run it with 12 everyone getting a 10 percent, but -- look at it, but the 13 COLA is the critical number as to what that number's going to 14 be. Because if it's over 10 percent, I think you have to go 15 back to the -- back and look at the 10 percent increase, 16 'cause you're not doing any good. 17 MS. HYDE: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I think you -- I mean, 19 we've got to figure out what the COLA's going to be, what 20 we're going to settle on, and then look at the rest of it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, these two sheets that 22 Ms. Hyde gave us, one indicates a maximum available C.P.I. on 23 Page 1 of 6.19, but if you extrapolate that out to the end of 24 the year, you're talking about 9.81. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8-21-08 bwk 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 2 MS. HYDE: And I was very conservative. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 9.81 is only 19 basis 4 points under 10. 5 MS. HYDE: Right. Right. And I was very 6 conservative, because, Mr. Letz, you do financials, and the 7 Judge does financials, so I know that if I was making smoke, 8 y'all would call me on it. So that -- that's why it's 9 extrapolated out 7 -- 7 points. And I used all urban wage -- 10 all urban wage and clerical work versus government, because 11 government is always looked at -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: South and southwest? 13 MS. HYDE: South and southwest. And I think that's 14 very conservative. I think that's very conservative numbers 15 based on everything that we've seen. And if you go to the 16 B.L.S. site, federal government site, the federal government 17 wouldn't lie to us. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, Buster may have a comment about 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. It's our money. So, 21 I'm with Letz. Now we just need to land on a number and rock 22 and roll, get on down the road here. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I make a comment about the 24 trials that the Auditor mentioned, or one trial? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought we were going to escape 8-21-08 bwk 50 1 this. Didn't you, Buster? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Auditor mentioned it. As 4 far as reserves, I think y'all know, because it's occurring 5 as we speak upstairs, the main trial that we would have had 6 in this county this year that would cost us megabucks has 7 been found incompetent again; will be shipped back again. 8 That's the trial -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Found what? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Incompetent. So, that trial 11 will probably not take place. We have a couple of other 12 outstanding arrest warrants for major cases. I expect both 13 those are in Mexico, and those trials will not ever take 14 place. So, unless -- and I pray that there isn't, but unless 15 something new major happens. And even if it did, I wouldn't 16 say it would get to trial within the next budget year. So -- 17 MS. HENDERSON: I don't think one will go. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think we're going to 19 see one in this county within the next budget year. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to talk about a couple 23 of specific items? Let's talk about visiting judges. Let's 24 talk about -- we have talked many times about building a new 25 jail -- adding on the old jail, building a new one. Or is 8-21-08 bwk 51 1 there options out there of trying to empty out the one we 2 have now? So that -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I speak to it? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not until we get through. 7 We'll give you an opportunity, but you're -- the time is not 8 now. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You can sit outside and we'll call 10 you. (Laughter.) 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That won't happen. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And one of the those things 13 that we had talked about was the possibility of having -- 14 bringing in visiting judges to hear some of those cases, 15 those -- Rusty says that there's guys that's been sitting 16 there for over a year, year and a half, two years, that kind 17 of thing, that need to appear before a judge and -- and do 18 something with them. I don't understand how all that works, 19 but bottom -- basically, bottom line, that's what we're 20 talking about. I've been in communication -- well, we all 21 had a visit with the District Judges and the D.A.'s, and 22 seems like everybody's willing to sit down and talk about 23 this issue, how to do this thing. And I think everybody's 24 willing to work together and get it done. Judge Prohl and 25 Ms. Henderson came down with some thoughts a couple weeks 8-21-08 bwk 52 1 ago, and -- and I sent y'all a memo on it, and -- of the 2 possibility of us putting some money in our budget for 3 visiting judges. I'm just going to make one more point, 4 Ms. Henderson; then I'm going to ask you to talk about it for 5 a minute. And they get -- the district level up here get "X" 6 amount of dollars from the State to do this kind of thing. 7 And what they're willing to do is take their state money, 8 just like they always do, take their state money and spend it 9 on this issue, and when they run out, then they would tap 10 into the county money. Do you want to go now? 11 MS. HENDERSON: Well, you've pretty well -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it was close, wasn't 13 it? 14 MS. HENDERSON: Yeah, you did real well. I -- the 15 state funds that we get have been -- have been cut for the 16 whole state of Texas. And last year they were cut -- this is 17 the second year they were cut. Last year they were cut, and 18 we were lucky that we had enough funds that we didn't run out 19 this year -- we ran out the end of May, so we have not been 20 able to use visiting judges at all, except for Judge 21 Sherrill, who has agreed to work for free. He has done quite 22 a bit for us free. This time he got ill, and has not worked 23 the past month, month and a half. The only reason -- what we 24 would like -- what we can do is, there's three reasons to use 25 a visiting judge. One, we could have a probation MTR day; we 8-21-08 bwk 53 1 could have an extra one once a week, twice a week, whatever 2 we have the funds for. We could have a plea day. That would 3 help take care of getting people out of the jail. And then 4 we could have an extra jury trial a month using a visiting 5 judge. Our judges travel -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: How much money did the State give 7 you for visiting judges this past year? 8 MS. HENDERSON: The State gives the region -- well, 9 each region has so much money. Our region is the Sixth 10 Region, and there's 26 counties in the region, and that has 11 to be split. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: How is it allocated? How much was 13 local allocation to Kerr -- 14 MS. HENDERSON: It's not allocated on a per-county 15 basis. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's allocated to the region, 17 and when it's spent, it's gone. How much did we spend? 18 MS. HENDERSON: In Kerr County? Kerr County? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 MS. HENDERSON: I'd have to go back and check that. 21 I don't have that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't even have a ballpark? 23 MS. HENDERSON: Don't have a ballpark on it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm looking at -- I recall a 25 discussion last year about this time, about the fact that the 8-21-08 bwk 54 1 State had cut these funds, and y'all needed something to 2 shore up in case we need those, and to help move some of 3 these crowded dockets and unload the jail and so forth. 4 MS. HENDERSON: Mm-hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And last year we put $2,500 in the 6 budget for Special District Judges in the 216th, and -- 7 MS. HENDERSON: 198th. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 198th, we put the same amount in. 9 And the figures I'm looking at show that none of that was 10 expended in either case. 11 MS. HENDERSON: And let me explain what that's for. 12 That was not to pay their salaries. We've always -- if 13 you'll go back, we've always had that in there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. HENDERSON: That's if we have to -- and I try 16 not to use that, and let me tell you what it's for. If we 17 have to have -- to bring a judge in that doesn't live in the 18 district, we have to pay travel, meals, and hotels, and so 19 whenever I book a visiting judge, I try to use Judge 20 Sherrill, because he lives in Kerr County; we don't have to 21 pay him anything. Or I get Judge Jordan, who lives in Brady. 22 He's agreed to come to Kerr County and not charge us 23 anything, so I've been able to do that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. HENDERSON: But that money is there just in 8-21-08 bwk 55 1 case we were not able to get them and we had to bring a judge 2 in. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So -- 4 MS. HENDERSON: And they had to use hotels. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we've been able to get 6 free visiting judges to this point. 7 MS. HENDERSON: For Kerr County, per se, yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 MS. HENDERSON: Now, County Court at Law is not 10 covered. The State will not pay for visiting judges in 11 County Court at Law, so I do not know. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got some allocated. 13 MS. HENDERSON: I think they may have some. But if 14 we had to bring a judge in -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, if -- if we continue to give 16 you this money, or make it available to you, and it's for 17 their mileage, whatever, that would help you, would it not, 18 and give you some encouragement to bring in visiting judges 19 after you run out of whatever state funds are available? 20 MS. HENDERSON: Well, after we run out of state 21 funds, then we'll have to start paying their daily salary, 22 which is $534 a day. That's what this would -- that's what 23 the extra money would do. If we were -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. HENDERSON: If we were using -- you know, 8-21-08 bwk 56 1 having a plea day, or bringing in a judge to do a jury 2 trial, -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MS. HENDERSON: -- that's what that would be. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Over 500 bucks a day. 6 MS. HENDERSON: Right. That -- right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that in full-day increments or 8 half-day increments? 9 MS. HENDERSON: We can do half days. They can 10 either get paid by full day or half day. If they come in for 11 a half day, they get half that. That's the salary that they 12 get from the State as a retired visiting judge. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said that the amount's 15 going to be cut by the State this year. Do you -- 16 MS. HENDERSON: No, it won't be cut. I think it's 17 going to be the same as it was last year. I don't think 18 they're going to add anything. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the total amount 20 available for -- 21 MS. HENDERSON: I knew you were going to ask that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for the district? 23 MS. HENDERSON: I'll have to get those for you. I 24 mean, our region, the Sixth Region, I'll have to get that for 25 you. I think it was -- I want to say 200-some thousand. 8-21-08 bwk 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a big number? 2 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MS. HENDERSON: And to make all this work, to do 5 the extra day for the MTR days to get people out of jail, to 6 do an extra plea day, to do an extra week of jury, we're 7 going to have to have the D.A.'s with us to make it work. I 8 can schedule it and I can get a visiting judge, but if I 9 don't have a D.A., then nothing happens, so that's something 10 we're going to have to work with too. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would like to really have -- 12 you know, it's not just me, but we can put the funds in the 13 budget and you can aggressively tackle this, because this is 14 a -- seems to me that this is the cheapest way for the 15 taxpayers to keep from building a jail, or doing anything 16 with that jail. If we can add -- put 50,000 in here, boy, 17 that's money well spent if it does some good. I'd really 18 like to see us try that. And then if we can turn our 19 attention to the D.A.'s -- 20 MS. HENDERSON: And I'll tell you, that's not going 21 to be -- I mean, it may come up next near that you put 50,000 22 in there and there's $50,000 left there, and it will be 23 because we still had the funds in the Sixth Region. We will 24 deplete those and use them until we don't have any funds 25 left. 8-21-08 bwk 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'd make the effort to utilize 2 these visiting judges early in the year, it seems like you've 3 got a better shot of getting it funded out of funds allocated 4 to the region. Doesn't that make sense? 5 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir, and we will -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MS. HENDERSON: -- do that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the number that you think is the 10 right number a total of 50,000? Or is it something less than 11 that? 12 MS. HENDERSON: Well, 30 days is about $18,000. To 13 use a full -- a visiting judge 30 full days is about $18,000. 14 Now, say we have a criminal jury trial; they average two to 15 three days. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't want to use them for that. 17 We want to use them for mass disposal of cases. 18 MS. HENDERSON: Well, adding -- we have a lot of 19 backup on our jury dockets of people that have been in 20 jail -- Rusty? I mean, you've got people that have been in 21 jail a long time that need to go to trial, and it's because 22 they can't get a trial, right? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 24 MS. HENDERSON: So, if we were able to do an extra 25 jury trial a month, that would at least get somebody that's 8-21-08 bwk 59 1 been in jail for a long time out. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me that -- and I 3 know nothing about how all y'all's stuff is done up in the 4 ivory tower over here, but -- (Laughter.) 5 MS. HENDERSON: What? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it seems to me -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: He didn't get that from me, Becky. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just told to keep my hands 9 off up there. But it seems to me that -- that if you -- you 10 know, if we put money in the budget, you know, you got State 11 money out there that you could talk to -- rather than just 12 having to rely on Judge Jordan and Judge Sherrill, pay the 13 guy -- pay a judge money, get a schedule where he's going to 14 be here for this year, these dates, and guarantee that he's 15 getting that visiting money. I would think that would be 16 pretty attractive to a retired judge that wants that money. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- and that's what 19 I would really like to see, is to get a real schedule, one 20 judge coming in -- and Judge Sherrill's great. I think his 21 health's a problem right now. And Judge Jordan, that's fine, 22 and I appreciate all they've done for the community. But I 23 think we need to go to the next step and start paying -- 24 going beyond those two, and start paying for some judges to 25 be here so we can see if this approach works. If it does 8-21-08 bwk 60 1 work, we can pursue it even more. If it doesn't work, we go 2 back to the drawing board. 3 MS. HENDERSON: Well, we are going to have Judge 4 Ables available now, once he retires. We can -- but he said 5 that he will -- he'll come in and do it. We've got Judge 6 Sherrill, Judge Jordan, Judge Simmons from Del Rio, so we 7 have a variety of judges. And if, you know, we can use -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Free's great, but if we have to 9 pay, we got to pay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because of this issue. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean, I don't -- I 12 want them cleaned out, and now. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we -- let's use the free 14 ones on some of these criminal jury trials, and pay the guy 15 to go out and clean up out at the jail. 16 MS. HENDERSON: Yeah. But, I mean, we won't pay -- 17 we won't -- we will not pay them from this budget until we 18 run out of the state funds. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 20 MS. HENDERSON: So -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we start with a total of 22 25, 12,5 in each one, and see how that works this year? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good start. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good start. 8-21-08 bwk 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And we'll see where that carries us. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good start. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- and I -- I agree 100 4 percent, and I -- the next step is having this meeting with 5 the D.A.'s and what District Judges we can get there to try 6 to get everybody on the same horse, to accomplish the goal 7 that we're looking at. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we not approve an 9 additional D.A. for 216th? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we have not yet. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have not voted to do 13 that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I realize that, but it's in 15 here. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. And that'll be a 17 part of the conversation, believe me. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should be. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In order to reach our goals. 20 And, you know, you're right on. You're right on the -- right 21 on the mark there. So, I'm not sure how to do this meeting 22 thing, unless we do it in a workshop session with us kind of 23 thing, to do it that way. So, I -- did anybody hear -- did 24 y'all hear anything? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That means your time is up. 8-21-08 bwk 62 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thanks. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Ken, I've got 12,5 in both 198th and 3 216th. 4 MR. RUARK: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I plugged it in. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, can you tell us why 7 this won't work? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. I'd like to tell you and 9 I will tell you that I think it definitely will work. If you 10 want my opinion right now on whether or not we should build a 11 jail, I'd tell you no way, period, okay? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're trying. We're trying 13 not to. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Looking at it and that, and, 15 you know, true, we have some problems. Judge Prohl did 16 fabulous two weeks ago, okay? He kind of put the stick down, 17 and in one day they pled 20-some-odd inmates. One day, okay? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That proves it can be done. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Exactly what it does. But, of 20 course, 216th Judicial District Court, Monday, indicted 41 21 new ones, okay? So pleading 20 and indicting 41 changes 22 things real quick. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not Becky's fault. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8-21-08 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right this moment, as of 3 yesterday -- now, when they have court, y'all see that the 4 courthouse is crowded. We've got a lot of people going, but 5 as of yesterday, out of a hundred and -- we went back up, 6 going back up. It's 158 inmates, but 105 of them have been 7 in jail over 100 days; anywhere from 100 days to, believe it 8 or not, because of -- of our one major case, 2,000 days, 9 okay? I've got several over 400 days that have not gone to 10 trial. And they're not incompetent, just haven't gone to 11 trial. That kind of stuff has to end. That's where we have 12 the problem. That's where it's broke down. It's not just a 13 judge problem, okay, of available judges. It's a D.A. 14 problem. It's a D.A. problem when you have a trial coming 15 up -- and we only get six jury trials a year, okay? That 16 they call in the jury panel, they do voir dire, and then at 17 the end, they offer a plea bargain and plead them out, and 18 that whole jury trial and that jury is gone, and we've lost 19 one of our six for the year, okay? Why wasn't the plea 20 bargain offered sooner? We don't have that, all right? Or 21 you have a jury trial set in the other court where discovery 22 was forgot to be given. Jury trial's gone. We've lost that 23 for the year; we don't have that. 24 I have asked this morning, along with Buster -- and 25 Becky knows this, and in talking to Kay in one D.A.'s office, 8-21-08 bwk 64 1 I've asked now for a meeting with the judges and the incoming 2 judge and with the D.A.'s, 'cause they're a very big part of 3 it, and with the defense attorneys, 'cause it's going to take 4 all that. It's not just one problem. Defense attorneys 5 won't go to the jail and see inmates, and won't -- you know, 6 they're getting so many pretrials 'cause they have too many 7 inmates. A lot of that can be worked out during the month in 8 a regular visitation booth with the inmate. We've opened 9 that up 24 hours a day; they can come see them, but they 10 won't. So, a lot of it's defense attorneys. A lot of it is 11 state jail cases that the most you're going to get is, you 12 know, two years anyhow. Why are you keeping them in jail 13 over 100 days before you offer an offer for -- for 15 months 14 or 18 months, and then end up pleading them at the end. I 15 had a guy in jail for 200 and -- almost 300 days, and at the 16 end, we took him to Fredericksburg, finally, over there for a 17 suppression hearing before they go to trial, and they offered 18 him five years. He's already served it. He's already served 19 the five years. Or they've been in jail 150 days, and then 20 they go to court and they give them six months. It's done. 21 Those kind of things have to stop. That's why Kerr 22 County has the jail problem we have, and that's the sole 23 reason we have it. Now, true, there's a lot of cases. It 24 takes more D.A.'s when you indict 41 in one Grand Jury 25 setting, okay? You got to have some assistant prosecutors so 8-21-08 bwk 65 1 that you can do that, so they need the prosecutors. There's 2 the capability that Rex's office can handle state jail 3 felonies if the D.A.'s will let them, and so you need that. 4 You need the visiting judges. Judge Ables told me this week 5 that once he retires, you know, in January, he would be 6 willing and love to come back, and come back once a week and 7 have court out there. In fact, it can be worked out and 8 money put in the budget, okay? 9 There's a lot of ways -- and you have it on the 10 agenda for next Commissioners Court where y'all had told me 11 to look at some consulting firms, and I have, and got two 12 prices from them. And if you've looked at those packets, if 13 they've come out yet, you're talking about $70,000 to have it 14 done. But if you read what's in their material, I think 15 you'll see where a lot of Kerr County's problems are. I got 16 my eyes opened reading what they had in their material on 17 what they will look at and adjust and use for doing an 18 analysis of our criminal justice problem. And I don't 19 mind -- and I know it may upset some judges, but -- and some 20 D.A.'s and some attorneys, but right now -- and I've been 21 doing this 28 years in this county. Right now, the criminal 22 justice system, as far as being able to flow and be effective 23 in this county, is gone. It's broke, and it's going to take 24 every part of it, including myself, to get it back on track. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're doing everything that 8-21-08 bwk 66 1 we can here to help you fix that. That's exactly what we're 2 doing. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think all these people 5 that you're talking about, the D.A.'s and all those folks, 6 are all reasonable people. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They are. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And once -- once we 9 point out to them that they don't get any money if they don't 10 play our game -- no, no, not that. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unfortunately, what happens 12 is -- in my opinion, what happens is, a lot of it's out of 13 sight, out of mind. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty? I think that they -- 15 they understand, or they will understand when we sit down and 16 have this visit with them, but I think that they're going to 17 understand and see clearly that the public in this 18 community -- which is still in charge, believe it or not; 19 they're still in charge -- that they would rather see us go 20 our route and empty the jail out than to spend ten more 21 million dollars building a new jail. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And we're not meaning empty it 23 out by letting them loose back on the streets. No, crooks 24 need to be in prison, but let's give them their day in court. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think there's a 8-21-08 bwk 67 1 newspaper in here. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But what -- and where it is, 3 Buster, is it's going to save us money in more than just 4 building another jail right now. I've had more turnover in 5 the jail because officers are getting spit on -- I've had 6 more officers assaulted, spit on or assaulted in the jail 7 this year than we ever have. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, you're the one that gave him 9 the soapbox. Don't jerk it out from under him. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's angry. Why are you so 11 angry? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I am. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not angry at us, are 14 you? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I'm angry at the system. 16 And we -- and we've doubled our medical this year. Let's cut 17 all that stuff. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do the beep thing. 19 MR. RUARK: I turned beep off. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll get off my soapbox. 21 But -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We understand. We understand 23 the problem. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are not against you. We 25 want to help you. We don't want to build a new jail, period. 8-21-08 bwk 68 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't either. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Neither do the taxpayers. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. But that's why -- and I 4 think -- I don't think we have to. And you're looking at the 5 budget and everything else for employees' salaries. If we 6 work together, I don't think we have to. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question for you. 8 I have a question for you. Is there enough -- do you have 9 enough prisoners that our program would affect to really 10 affect the number of folks that sleep in that jail? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What kind of number? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you could -- if you 14 sped up the system, -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we had three -- three 16 visiting judges a month. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- I think you could cut my 18 population, on the average, by at least 50. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifty? Five-zero per 20 month? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My average daily population, I 22 think you could cut by 50. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Gosh, that would even reduce 24 the number of jailers, wouldn't it? (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That has a real domino 8-21-08 bwk 69 1 effect. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm 40 percent over budget in 3 overtime in the jail right now. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, Rusty, I was just playing 5 with you. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not talking about -- 8 or are you talking about cranking in funds for one of those 9 consulting agencies that you referenced? 'Cause I read the 10 same material you put out. That's very interesting. Are you 11 talking about that? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Y'all had asked me -- y'all 13 had asked me to look. I think 70,000, 75,000 is a lot of 14 money to do -- you know, -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- to spend. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But the more I read through 19 that material, I don't think it's wasted money. I think they 20 do a fabulous job on analyzing everything and trying to get 21 everything together. Midland County, with the one consulting 22 firm, were spending close to a million a year housing inmates 23 out of county, because they were full. Now, they are still 24 going with having to build a jail, but after that study and 25 getting everybody on the same page and working together, they 8-21-08 bwk 70 1 quit having to house people out of county at all, so they 2 saved a million, okay? So, in saving a million a year, they 3 were spending the 75,000. It's not -- we're at the -- we're 4 at the peak of that mountain. We're going to start spending 5 money, a lot of it, somewhere if we don't do something. 6 And -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, I would agree with you that 8 the content of that proposal that they made was somewhat 9 enlightening, based upon the variables that are involved, 10 some of which we, of course, know about, and some of which we 11 may not have thought about. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we know what our problem is. 14 Now, some finite planning of that solution may be better done 15 by someone with experience at looking at a number of 16 different institutions. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, they're -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That may benefit us. But we know 19 what our problem is. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there was one part in 21 there -- and I don't mean to say anything to Rex, but Rex and 22 I -- and I'm one of them that have felt Rex, with the County 23 Court, has done a fabulous job of getting our misdemeanors 24 moved out. Every day he's having court, we're moving them, 25 okay? But when you start looking at one of those proposals, 8-21-08 bwk 71 1 it quotes that Midland County Jail was housing an average 2 of -- is it 40? No, 28 misdemeanor -- Class A misdemeanors, 3 which, through the state reporting, what we all report on how 4 many, you know, A and B pretrial misdemeanors each county 5 jail in the state has, that that was more per capita and per 6 inmate population than the state average by Midland's 7 population and the number of pretrial A and B's they were 8 housing, which was 28, okay? So, I pulled up our last ones 9 to see where we are, 'cause Midland County's population is a 10 whole lot more than Kerr County's population, and Kerr 11 County's was 23 that we were housing for our population, so 12 we're way up above. 13 So, is there a way that we can even possibly move 14 misdemeanors A and B through quicker? You know, a lot of 15 that's -- a lot of that is a -- is a pretrial release 16 program. A lot of it's a -- a bonding program. A lot of it 17 is a -- or a PR bonding type program. A lot of it is also 18 a -- oh, you know, a regular public defender's office where 19 you have defense attorneys. There's -- there's a lot of 20 different points, and that's where I said that a lot of that 21 material started to get my attention, okay, on it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, it -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, where we have -- we 24 still have misdemeanors that are violation of probations. 25 Some of them misdemeanors have no bonds, okay? You know, 8-21-08 bwk 72 1 Midland County's is -- is an automatic $500 bond, period. I 2 don't necessarily agree with that, 'cause I think some of the 3 misdemeanors are just as bad as a lot of your felonies and 4 need to be in jail, but that's how they changed a lot of 5 that, because they are misdemeanors. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the bottom line is, we 7 generally know what our problem is. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, there may be variables and 10 different methods to fix it, but I think what we're talking 11 about is working on the solution that Commissioner Baldwin is 12 talking about. We've got -- we've got to move them out of 13 the jail, through the court system, and on down the road 14 somewhere. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Either out into the community, to 17 the penitentiary, to the state jail system, and work release 18 program, whatever it may be. But we got to move them through 19 the system, and that's what's causing your problem. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'm going to ask y'all to 21 do, probably at the next Commissioners Court, is appoint a 22 committee so we can have an official deal, not just let's 23 call a meeting and see what we can do. Let's do an official 24 deal with a couple Commissioners, appoint some judges to it, 25 me, defense attorneys, to where we can actually sit down, 8-21-08 bwk 73 1 study it, get all the information out there on the table, and 2 make some progress, and not just talk about it and have a 3 meeting and go on back, and six months later we're back where 4 we were. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that makes good 6 sense. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 8 MS. UECKER: I think the simple answer is, Kerr 9 County needs to be its own -- have its own judicial district. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Way to go. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is a major -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now you've gone to meddling. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, that's a major part of it. 14 We have always said that. 15 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I don't have anything to do with 16 the district courts. Sorry. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is a major part; we've 18 said that, and that is a part of this whole solution. But I 19 think there needs to be an official thing put together, firm, 20 we're going to do it, we're going to meet. Y'all worked on 21 airport stuff; you've worked on a lot of other things where 22 you came together and did it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who does she think she is, 24 the District Clerk? That's what it sounded like, didn't it? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Single district. 8-21-08 bwk 74 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I've got one more 2 topic, then I'm going to eat. And it's not anywhere near 3 this kind of thing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I would hope not. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Turtle Creek Fire 6 Department has come to me. About one mile out Highway 16 7 South, about a mile past Riverhill, they -- there's a fellow 8 out there that's going to donate some land for Turtle Creek 9 to build a new fire station. They want to build a two-bay 10 fire station out there. They have two trucks to go in it, et 11 cetera, et cetera. Now, my very first question to him was, 12 "How long does it take you to get a fire truck from there to 13 the elementary school on Ranchero Road?" And he says, "About 14 four to five minutes," which is basically the same thing as 15 the City of Kerrville's answer. This excites me, and they 16 are in that process. They haven't -- haven't gotten the deed 17 to the property or any of that yet. It's still real early in 18 it. And once they get the deed and all the things are done, 19 and -- and Rex is going to feel comfortable with it, then we 20 want to have a little bit further talk with them, maybe to 21 the point of asking Leonard at some point, you know, when 22 they start the bidding, maybe to do a little dirt work or, 23 you know, something, preparation-type work out there on the 24 ground, and maybe next year putting some money for concrete 25 or whatever. I just don't know where we are and where they 8-21-08 bwk 75 1 are at this point, but what I see in this thing is a -- to 2 me, a huge step toward reducing the fire contract with the 3 City of Kerrville. That's the way I see it. And I think 4 that -- I think that that is -- that's the route to go. 5 We're obviously not going to get ESD's county-wide, so to me, 6 this is the other option. So, I think we're taking giant 7 steps here, and I wanted to ask you guys, when it comes time 8 to support this particular type of thinking, that we -- that 9 we do that as a Commissioners Court. That's all. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be a potential 11 of an ESD for that area? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Potential. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the idea. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: It just gives the Turtle Creek -- 17 that Turtle Creek department the ability to cover a wider 18 area, including Kerrville South area. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is the one that we're 21 concerned about in our dealings with the City. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. Now, one of the 24 points that they made that I thought was very, very 25 interesting is, around -- somewhere around 70 percent of 8-21-08 bwk 76 1 their firefighters are in the city of Kerrville, so when they 2 have a fire or a traffic accident -- by the way, they had two 3 fires last night and one this morning. When they have a fire 4 or an accident, they drive all the way out to Upper Turtle 5 Creek, get in a fire truck, and come back in to fight the 6 fire or work the accident. Whereas now they can run outside 7 the city limits, grab the truck -- I mean, they're here 8 already. See what I'm saying? So, it's just -- to me, it's 9 just a plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, and I'm liking it a 10 whole lot, and I hope that we have the wonderful opportunity 11 to participate. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than lunch being on your mind, 13 what else have you got? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was my three thoughts 15 for the week, Judge. I'm depleted. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're -- you're increasing; 17 you only had one or two last week. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. 19 That's true. Pretty excited about this. I want more money. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While we still haven't come 21 to grips with the cost-of-living totally; it's hanging out 22 there -- a lot of people hanging in here waiting on us to 23 stop hanging out there -- my Justice of the Peace, who is 24 named Judge Wright, who's talking to some one else right now, 25 asked me to put before the Court her request for a Garmin GPS 8-21-08 bwk 77 1 that she says she borrowed, tried it out, and finds out that 2 it does, in fact, work on remote county roads, and she'd like 3 to have that $300 out of the J.P. tech fund for next year's 4 budget, and I agree with her. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Tech fund's a dedicated fund. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. She just -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Who did she borrow it from? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. Who did you 11 borrow it from? 12 JUDGE WRIGHT: Oh, the Garmin? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am. 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: From my ex-husband. Does it matter? 15 (Laughter.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge, let me make a suggestion. 17 Have you still got it? Do you still have it? 18 JUDGE WRIGHT: I just borrowed it for one weekend. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Possession is nine-tenths of 20 the law. 21 JUDGE WRIGHT: I used the jail one, and it works 22 also. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why didn't you just keep 24 it? Then we wouldn't have to buy one. 25 JUDGE WRIGHT: It wasn't part of the settlement. 8-21-08 bwk 78 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Statute of limitations ran 2 out. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Tech fund. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're dismissed. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it for you, Commissioner? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, except we got to 8 come to grips with the big number here. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you got anything you want to 10 offer on that at this point? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only thing I -- I would 12 just reiterate what I said earlier. If we take Ms. Hyde's 13 numbers -- we have to take them seriously, because they are 14 the numbers that are out there. If you're looking ahead at 15 the time period that remains in this particular budget year, 16 going into next budget year, you're looking at a 10 percent 17 increase COLA. That's it. I don't have any trouble 18 defending that with anybody at any given time. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then, again, if it looks 20 like Obama's going to get the nod, it may go down to 21 3 percent. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you'll also get 23 $1,000 back if you check your tires regularly. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, am I -- I forgot that 25 part. I forgot that part. 8-21-08 bwk 79 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Jon, do you got anything you want to 4 pitch out on the table? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty much, I just -- I think 6 we need to look at -- I mean, decide what -- if the COLA's 7 10 percent, it's 10 percent, and we have to pick a number 8 that matches with our step and grade, or just do an 9 across-the-board percentage. 10 MS. HYDE: I would appreciate it if y'all would say 11 four grades so that it matches all our numbers. 12 MS. HARGIS: The numbers right now are 10.381. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two and a half percent 14 increase. 15 MS. HYDE: Right, because they're all in two and a 16 half percent increments, so it ends up being 10.381 total, 17 because you're -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the one below that? 19 MS. HYDE: 7.5. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But it has -- 21 MS. HARGIS: It'd have to go compound, so I'd have 22 to figure it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 7.50-something, right? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Would elected officials and 25 department heads -- elected officials, of course, are not 8-21-08 bwk 80 1 tied to the step and grades. 2 MS. HYDE: No, sir, they're not. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think you have tried to get 4 the department heads plugged into the step and grades, 5 haven't you? 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, I have. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So, are we talking about only the 8 elected officials having a separate number, or are we talking 9 about -- I mean, the numbers are so doggone close, I -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's, I guess, where I am. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have a heartburn 13 either way. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's -- I was just using 16 that as a starting point. I just felt funny about separating 17 the department heads' numbers, but -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They had previously been at -- been 19 at straight numbers, as elected officials, but I think there 20 has been a -- a strong effort made by Ms. Hyde and the 21 Auditor to try and get those plugged into the -- to the 22 position step and grade schedule. That's the only reason 23 I -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is -- have whoever looks 25 at all these numbers looked at what the people -- Kendall 8-21-08 bwk 81 1 County's doing? 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 3 MS. HYDE: Yes. 4 MS. HARGIS: Yes, we have. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are they doing on COLA's? 6 MS. HARGIS: I've talked with Gillespie County, and 7 Gillespie County's is going to be at around 10 percent as 8 well. What they're doing is a little different than we are. 9 They're bringing up all their lower people, just like we did, 10 and then they're giving people amounts to get their salaries 11 up, because I don't think they have a step and grade, but 12 basically they told me it would be close to 10 percent. I 13 haven't talked with Dana that much, but I know they're pretty 14 close to it as well in Kendall County; they're doing a very 15 similar thing there where they're giving, like, $1,500 to 16 $2,000 to get their people up to that grade. They're 17 actually giving them that cash in addition, and then breaking 18 them up, and then they're giving, I think, a 5 percent COLA 19 or higher. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But the problem you have with 21 that is -- is they're already 10 percent above what Kerr 22 County is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. We're 24 not solving our problem if everyone else is giving a 10 25 percent increase. We're not solving the disparity issue that 8-21-08 bwk 82 1 we have in the county. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm sure the employees would 3 not be averse to -- instead of four steps, that it go to six. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. I 5 mean, the intent of this whole process started -- I'm sure 6 the employees will take as many as they can get, but -- and 7 I'd love to give it to them, but there is a budget that we 8 have to look at. But, you know, I'd really like to look at, 9 if the other entities around here that are causing the 10 problem from -- or disparity are giving the 10 percent, I 11 think that's -- we're not helping a whole lot. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't caught up. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least with a COLA, but we're 14 not catching up with anything else. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You are and aren't, Judge. 16 And when y'all took care of deputies a year ago, got 17 everybody up, they never were equal, but -- even the jail 18 staff, but we were -- we got that gap narrowed. Then what 19 affects that, as long as you stay close, is, one, what kind 20 of agency you have, what kind of department you have. You 21 know, Kerrville itself, okay? The benefits of living in 22 Kerrville. And what's happened now over the years is that 23 gap has gotten so far, that 8,000-a-year difference, we can't 24 make that up in the agency, or in -- in living in Kerrville. 25 So, if you get that gap back down to where you -- kind of 8-21-08 bwk 83 1 like you did deputies a year ago, okay, you know, by doing 2 the 10 percent this year and then just trying and keep 3 working at it to where we're close, I think your -- your 4 community and your agency means a lot, whether it's Human 5 Resources, District Clerk, my office or whatever. 6 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to see a 10.3, the 7, 8 whatever that -- y'all don't like the 10.381 -- and the 9 10.381, plus a one-step for employees only. 10 MS. HARGIS: You already have the 7.5. 11 MS. HYDE: You've got it already. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no, no. I think what he 13 said was he'd like to see some numbers with an additional 14 step. 15 MS. HARGIS: The additional step does not have the 16 7.5. Do you have -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking at breaking it out 18 differently. I'm looking at everybody gets 7 -- there's two 19 different COLA's, and then employees only, no department 20 heads, no elected officials, can get a one-step additional. 21 So, this is a third one. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're using a COLA of a flat 25 10 percent? 8-21-08 bwk 84 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten point -- whatever they 2 want. 3 MS. HYDE: 10.381 is the COLA. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay, if we can do that. Okay. So, 6 then let me get this straight, all right? We use the 10.381 7 for the COLA, then we take the one-step for employees only. 8 We already have a list for this, and so it won't take us but 9 a few minutes to multiply this out. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That does or not does include 11 department heads? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want department heads. 13 MS. HYDE: You're talking about hourly employees? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, hourly employees. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get a one-step increase. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Plus the -- 17 MS. HYDE: Plus the 10.381. 18 MS. HARGIS: Okay. All right. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That makes sense. 20 MS. HARGIS: So, we need to define department 21 heads. 22 MS. HYDE: Department heads are any appointed or 23 elected officials. Right? 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 MS. HARGIS: Okay. That is -- well, we'll have to 8-21-08 bwk 85 1 take them out of the -- 2 MS. HYDE: It will be just -- it will just be the 3 worker bees. 4 MR. RUARK: We'll look at what we've got. 5 MS. HARGIS: We've got -- 6 MS. HYDE: It will be any appointed -- Ken, that's 7 that list that I gave you. We can put it out real quick. 8 It's a part of that list that I gave you on that spreadsheet. 9 MS. HARGIS: We'll have to go through every 10 department and take out their department head, 'cause the 11 department -- we do have three schedules, one for elected 12 officials only, and elected -- and y'all have that, and then 13 we have one that included everybody, and then we had one that 14 included department heads, but not elected officials. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Everyone gets a 10.381, and the 18 hourly employees get an additional step. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Bingo. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was I out of the room too 21 long? 22 MS. HYDE: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happened? 24 MR. RUARK: I'll turn the bell back on; wait a 25 minute. 8-21-08 bwk 86 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everybody gets the 10.381 COLA, 3 and all hourly employees get an additional one-step increase. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Look at the numbers. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Look at the number. 7 MS. HARGIS: We're going to look at the numbers. 8 We're kind of getting close to having to file the budget, 9 so -- Judge? Monday? We don't have it on the agenda. Can 10 we get it on the agenda? 11 MS. GRINSTEAD: We've already got it. 12 MS. HARGIS: Can we do another agenda for a budget 13 workshop after the regular meeting or something? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have some pull. I bet we 15 can get it on there. 16 MS. HARGIS: Think so? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's our time table for 18 publishing and everything we need to do? 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, we've got -- the 27th is when we 20 were going to -- we need to give it to the clerk, the budget. 21 And then we've got to start the tax hearings. We've got to 22 get those going, because we're going to run out of time. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It will all work out. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm exiting out of this 8-21-08 bwk 87 1 thing. 2 MS. HARGIS: Any other questions? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, ma'am. 4 MS. HARGIS: The only one we didn't do -- 5 (Multiple low-voice discussions off the record.) 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we -- are we through? 7 Judge, we got a court reporter over here. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: She knows how to keep a record for 9 me, not for you. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But she's getting this phone 11 conversation, too. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Where are we on -- where are 13 we on our general -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- discussions relative to COLA 16 and -- the Auditor's got her instructions to crunch the 17 numbers, right? Is that where we're going? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd like to -- you know, I -- 19 from my part of it, I think that what Jonathan came up with 20 was a really good idea for the -- especially for the 21 employees. The elected officials got three and a half and 22 three and a half last year, so I'm not sure that we ought to 23 get 10 this year. I'm thinking more like three and a half 24 for elected -- for at least Commissioners Court, three and a 25 half, 4 percent for Commissioners Court only. And the other 8-21-08 bwk 88 1 elected officials, you know, you can include them in the 2 10 percent if you want to; that's fine. Just for my part of 3 it, I just don't -- you know, I feel like we got more than 4 they did last year, so we need to make a little adjustment to 5 what we get as a COLA. I do believe we should have some 6 COLA, but being as we got more last year and the others 7 didn't get it, I feel better about adjusting ours somewhat. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: My recollection of part of the 9 discussion last year had to do with longevity. We discussed 10 a longevity. And, in fact, for some reason, a longevity item 11 got included on my budget. Why it got there, I don't know, 12 'cause we never have -- never did finalize that one. But 13 some of the discussion, as I recall, last year centered on 14 the longevity that -- based upon the policy we put in place 15 for the employees, longevity and educational. And they -- 16 the fact that they receive that as a matter of automatic 17 policy is when that occurred. And my -- the sense I got of 18 it at that time was, in large measure, if not all of it, just 19 was that that three and a half was meant to offset that, that 20 we lagged behind. And others may have a different 21 recollection; I don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But our salaries are pretty 23 much a -- they're not -- they're not high and they're not 24 low, but they're somewhere in the middle from the other 25 counties that we use for comparisons, and that's kind of 8-21-08 bwk 89 1 where I base my comments. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we get a 10 -- if we all 4 get 10 percent as well, it will put us way up, somewhat at 5 the top end -- top end of what other counties our size are 6 getting. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's shaking her head. But, 8 anyway, I tend to agree with you, pretty close. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, what -- have you reviewed 10 the numbers? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not a huge number. 12 MS. HYDE: If you look -- you're absolutely right, 13 Commissioner, if they don't give themselves a COLA. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 15 MS. HYDE: But the consensus that we are hearing is 16 that they are giving themselves COLA's, which will put you 17 guys at the small end of the stick. And I don't mean just 18 you guys; I'm talking about all of them again. Here we go 19 back again, because now you've lost 10 percent again, or 20 more. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I -- it's just a -- 22 it's just a principle thing with me, more so than anything 23 else. You know, if I -- whenever I'm doing business with 24 somebody, I can raise the price to whatever I want it, but 25 when you're spending the public's money, it's just hard for 8-21-08 bwk 90 1 me to -- to give in to do a very large raise at any one time. 2 That's just the way I feel about it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could put us -- the 4 Commissioners only one step less. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to six and a half or 7 whatever it is. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I would think about it, 9 but, I mean, that's just my two cents worth right now. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you negotiated a discount at 11 the local grocery store -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have not. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for elected officials? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I figured that there will be 15 more venison in the future. (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there's a special award 17 that we can get that does that, I think we ought to consider 18 that. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I have a new redneck 20 outdoor barbecue pit to cook it on, so it really doesn't cost 21 much to cook, doesn't use any electricity. 22 MS. HARGIS: We do have one other thing, and if I 23 don't get it done, I'm going to get shot. We need to put an 24 additional 12,000 -- 25 MS. HYDE: 500. 8-21-08 bwk 91 1 MS. HARGIS: -- 500 dollars into the budget for TB 2 shots. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what? 4 MS. HARGIS: TB shots. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: TB. 6 MS. HYDE: TB. 7 MS. HARGIS: Tuberculosis. 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Testing? 10 MS. HYDE: Shots, preventive. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Immunizing. 12 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: For who? Jail? 14 MS. HYDE: Sheriff's Department and JDC. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you talking TB or 16 hepatitis? 17 MS. HYDE: TB. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good, 'cause you can't get 19 hepatitis done for 12,5, I don't think. Because we -- I 20 mean, all my employees are TB tested once a year, required. 21 All the inmates are TB tested after they've been in jail 22 seven days. 23 MS. HYDE: The problem is, we don't meet OSHA 24 requirements, and although, as a government entity, we do 25 not -- if something happens, we don't even meet the minimum 8-21-08 bwk 92 1 standards, so I'm -- I'm trying to keep us up there where we 2 keep out of trouble. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one I'm more concerned 4 about, if she's got it coming -- and Eva and I haven't had a 5 chance to talk about any of it -- is the hepatitis shot. 6 That's what -- that's what endangers my employees more than 7 anything else. Was it Hepatitis A? Or -- 8 MS. HYDE: B. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: B, the main one, and those are 10 a series of three shots that are very expensive. And that -- 11 that's concerned me more than anything else. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me what we're doling with it 14 and where we need to put it. 15 MS. HYDE: I don't know where to put it. I just 16 know that I need it. 17 MS. HARGIS: We can put it in Nondepartmental. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nondepartmental? 19 MS. HARGIS: There's -- I think the Animal Control, 20 or the -- 21 MS. HYDE: For TB? No, they don't need TB, but 22 they need -- 23 MS. ROMAN: Pre-exposure. We normally do the 24 pre-exposure vaccines, but -- but right now, there's a 25 shortage and we won't be able to get pre-exposure vaccines. 8-21-08 bwk 93 1 MS. HYDE: I think that the four people that work 2 out at Animal Control can have the shot with the $12,500. 3 MS. ROMAN: Oh, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we put that in what, 6 Contingency? 7 MS. HARGIS: I'd have to look at Nondepartmental, 8 Judge. Let's see. 9 MR. RUARK: Here it is, Jeannie. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would sure like to see it 11 in the next meeting. You don't have anything -- it calls for 12 -- well, you do have Professional Services, if you like. 13 MS. HARGIS: I'd really like to add a line so we 14 can keep up with it. Let's just call it -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Immunizations. 16 MS. HARGIS: -- immunizations. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 MR. RUARK: She'll have to add that in the general. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. All this paperwork is 21 real good and it's very accurate, from what I can tell, but 22 what I'd like to see is the bottom line and the -- what tax 23 rate would be necessary, an increase to fund at each level 24 from, like, 7 and a half to 12 percent increase in salaries 25 and all that. I don't see the projected tax rate increase 8-21-08 bwk 94 1 from where we are today, to where we would have to go. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On this sheet. 3 MS. HARGIS: This sheet right here will show you 4 that. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've seen that, but I'm 6 talking about -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which sheet? 8 MS. HARGIS: The effective -- if you take the tax 9 recap that Diane was kind enough to provide for us, that 10 assumes that we remain at the current tax rate that we are 11 today, and it takes you up by increments of 50 cents, a 12 dollar -- you know, a half a cent, a whole cent, one and a 13 half. And then -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I see all that, but the -- 15 MS. HARGIS: And then you just compare the bottom 16 line to what you need. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is the bottom line today 900 18 and -- 891,000? 19 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. It -- on the summary sheet 20 that you've been watching, it's 822. If you will look on the 21 general ledger sheet that I gave you -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can see -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got an extra copy of 24 that, Ms. Hargis? I don't seem to have one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Want this one? 8-21-08 bwk 95 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I'll look over the 2 Judge's shoulder. 3 MS. HARGIS: Okay. If you look on Page 1, 4 please -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This one right here? 6 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. Page 1, last column. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I see the last column; that's 8 821,000. 9 MS. HARGIS: 821,000. That's the general fund. 10 That's the general fund. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that is -- 12 MS. HYDE: We just added a little bit to it today, 13 right? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is the projected -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deficit. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Deficit. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- deficit. 18 MS. HARGIS: At the current tax rate. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the current tax rate, 20 you're looking at three-plus cents. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For next year. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get rid of 821. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You do a three-cent -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 850,000. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 8-21-08 bwk 96 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that -- but I'd like to 2 kind of see a -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But we just increased that 4 some today. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably increased it to four. 7 MS. HARGIS: 847. We took it up to right -- here 8 it is. You're still at the 850. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, but if we go with 10 another step increase for employees -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's going to increase 13 probably another half cent to another cent. 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Be nice if it was a half cent. 15 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He didn't give you the front 17 page. 18 MS. HARGIS: Here. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No wonder. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No wonder I can't find it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got it on here. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I got short-sheeted up here. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're missing an important 24 page. 25 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 8-21-08 bwk 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is -- I don't know; this 2 is not that critical. We can adjust it. Road and Bridge? 3 MS. HARGIS: They're fine. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're okay? 5 MS. HARGIS: They're okay, because they're -- we're 6 going to take them up a little bit. That will give them 7 about 25,000, and they have a very, very healthy fund 8 balance, and we need to bring it down a little bit. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 10 MS. HARGIS: So they're fine. The same with the 11 Detention Center. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, basically, what it would 14 be is, this year the total rate is 38.96, right? 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And, so, using that rate, and 17 if we went up four cents, the way I read this, it would be 18 41.12 if we went up four cents. 19 MS. HARGIS: Four cents. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Based on -- 21 MS. HARGIS: One million, 1,3. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, the effective rate is 23 37.12. Then you go four cents up from that; be 41, so really 24 from the rate that we have now, we would only be a little 25 over two cents from what the rate is today. 8-21-08 bwk 98 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Current rate or the 2 effective rate? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Current rate. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The current rate. 5 MS. HARGIS: The current rate would be more than 6 two cents. The current rate would be the four cents, 'cause 7 she's using the current rate. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about -- you're 9 talking about the effective rate. I'm talking about last 10 year's tax rate. 11 MS. HARGIS: Last year's tax rate, yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was 38.96. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's almost -- almost -- 15 MS. HARGIS: That includes Road and Bridge. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- 39 cents. 17 MS. HARGIS: That includes Road and Bridge. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I understand. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But her -- she's calculated an 20 effective rate increase. She's basing it off the effective 21 rate. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. And so -- but 23 what I'm saying is that, actually, from last year's rate, if 24 we go up four cents, it's only going to be about a two and a 25 half cent increase over last year's rate. Forget the 8-21-08 bwk 99 1 effective rate. Talking about what the people are going to 2 see from what they paid last year. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If you go four cents, you're going 4 to be at 42.96. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not what this says. 7 This says -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, see here, she's -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This says 41.12. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's basing it -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's basing this off the 13 effective rate. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The effective rate is 37.12. 15 MS. BOLIN: Which is what it was last year. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because that's what it took 17 to raise the same amount of money based on the increased 18 property value for tax base. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But what I'm getting at, what 21 the public is going to see is that they paid 38.96 last year. 22 If we go up four cents over the effective rate, that's only 23 two or two and a quarter cents higher than the rate that they 24 paid last year. 25 MS. HARGIS: No, because in my -- in my -- I think 8-21-08 bwk 100 1 we're going to have to change this, because in my calculation 2 of the revenue that is currently in the budget today, using 3 the same tax rate as we had last year -- the same tax rate, 4 not the effective rate, is what I use. So, I -- what we 5 probably need in this -- and this is probably my fault, 6 'cause Diane said, "What is your proposed rate?" So, what we 7 need to do is go in here and -- and change this, because it's 8 going to be four -- it needs to be an increase over what we 9 -- what our rate was last year. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that. It's got 11 to be higher than our rate last year. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, be 42. 3.896 plus 4. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not what she's saying. 14 What she has written right here on this page is, she's got 15 the effective tax rate increase, so she's basing the four 16 cents off of the 37.12. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes. And -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Which would make it 41.12. 19 Forty-one -- 20 MS. HARGIS: Commissioner Oehler is exactly 21 correct. However, when we did the budget -- when I used my 22 revenue numbers in the budget, I used the 35 cents and the 3 23 cents, so I used the 38.96; I didn't use 37.12. So, I'm -- 24 if I use the 37.12, that's going to put me in the hole more 25 than I am right now. 8-21-08 bwk 101 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, that's why this 2 is kind of confusing to me. 3 MS. HARGIS: Well -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The tax rate that's going to be on 5 the statement that's going to the taxpayer is going to be the 6 42.96. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Because that -- that's the rate 9 that's imposed and assessed that they'll be paying. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to make sure that we 12 know what the taxpayers are going to see. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that not greater than 14 8 percent? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 17 MS. HARGIS: No. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because of the bonded 19 indebtedness? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Rollback rate is stated on what 21 you're looking at. 42.17. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rollback rate was something 23 that's slightly above 8 percent increase. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the rollback rate, 25 Judge? 8-21-08 bwk 102 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 45. 2 MS. HARGIS: The rollback rate is 45 cents. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Forty-five cents. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We're a long way from that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't make sense to me. 6 The law must have changed. Well -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or the way we calculate it. 8 MS. HARGIS: Well, the way we calculate it is the 8 9 percent rate on your M & O, but your debt rate is what your 10 debt rate is, because we incurred new debt last year. You 11 add the 8 percent on the maintenance and the debt rate, and 12 that, in turn, gives you your rollback rate. So, it's kind 13 of a crazy calculation. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You're actually encouraged, the way 15 we calculate the rollback rate, to incur debt. But what 16 they're going to see that they pay is 42.96. Four cents. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just not what it 18 indicates on that sheet of paper. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If you read those advertisements 20 that come out in the paper, those notices that they're 21 required to send out, I don't know how anybody understands 22 them. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three and a half would be 24 certainly nice. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think if we run the numbers 8-21-08 bwk 103 1 on the additional -- the additional step, it's going to take 2 it to four. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't do the additional 4 step for those lower-paid employees, I think we might be 5 making a mistake. They're the ones I believe that are 6 hurting a lot worse than some of the others. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we should do that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I really do want to help, as 9 much as possible, those on the lower end of the totem pole as 10 we can. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. That's why I came up 12 with that. Otherwise, you're just treading water. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, gentlemen. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got one quickie here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, one quickie. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's -- now the County 18 Attorney's not here. I just had a phone call that tells me 19 that there is a meeting at City Hall, even as we sit here 20 today, in which they're talking about the annexation of the 21 Ag Barn. You may or may not have known that. Just F.Y.I. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That probably came from a -- a 23 conversation -- Mr. Hofmann said something to me about the -- 24 something about the Ag Barn and city water, city sewer and 25 all that. I was talking to him about Peter Lewis' thing that 8-21-08 bwk 104 1 he's going through, and he goes, "Where are you going to get 2 your water?" I said, "Where we're getting it served right 3 now." He said, "Continue using well water?" I said, "We 4 have city water; we cut a deal with the City before your 5 time, but we have city services out there in the county." He 6 says, "Well, I think we should annex." I said, "Well, that 7 wasn't part of our deal." 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's another 9 reason, but I don't think he likes to talk about it. They 10 don't like to see all the tax -- sales tax generated out 11 there going another way. Just F.Y.I., guys. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't surprise me. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I don't -- I don't know what 16 the pleasure of the Court is, but if we don't have anything 17 else right now, I think it might be appropriate, in case we 18 felt the need to come back later on this afternoon to look at 19 some numbers, if they're available, at least having that 20 option available to us, as opposed to having to post another 21 workshop. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's do it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody okay with that? 8-21-08 bwk 105 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, provided I don't get a 2 call from -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, be running around the country. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three? 5 MS. HYDE: Three what? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: At 3 o'clock? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I won't be here that late. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Rex said y'all had juvenile 9 court in here at 1:30. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 1:30, yeah. We can do that 11 somewhere else. But -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't need to be here. 13 MS. HARGIS: Well, there will be -- well, we can 14 get the numbers. We got to work a little bit on the numbers 15 here, but -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You can have those available 17 by 2:30, three-ish? 18 MS. HARGIS: But -- well, I think -- well, Eva 19 needs a couple of numbers so we can see what the compounding 20 is. We can do the 2.5 easily. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 MS. HARGIS: But we don't necessarily know what the 23 compounding is. So, if you're not worried about that little 24 tenth of a point, we can go ahead and get it done. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we -- is it going to 8-21-08 bwk 106 1 put us in a timeline problem if we do this -- just wait and 2 do it on Monday, when we have a -- we can add a workshop to 3 our agenda. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Diane? 5 MS. BOLIN: Well, it will push us more -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't vote on it today 7 anyway. 8 MS. BOLIN: Right. You can't vote on it today, but 9 I was going to put it on the agenda for us to do a proposed 10 tax rate so that I can publish so we can get in line and not 11 be crunched. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can still do that. 13 We can probably meet today. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We -- we can't -- we can't vote to 15 give you a proposed tax rate today, even if we wanted to. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not posted. 18 MS. BOLIN: Monday? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monday's the earliest we can do 20 anything either way. We can always have a workshop. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Get the information 22 to us, though. 23 MS. HARGIS: We can get your information to you for 24 sure. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8-21-08 bwk 107 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't need to be on the 2 agenda to -- rather than -- rather than a workshop, we need 3 to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It'll be on 5 Monday's agenda. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, as an action item. Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we'll get it there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does this have to do 10 with Buzzie's? That's what I don't get. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, does this mean that there's 13 not felt to be a need to come back, then? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where I'm at. I 15 mean, y'all -- somebody can walk in and hand me some papers. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather have the right 17 numbers that are exact, rather than having to rush and people 18 trying to scamper to have something by 3 o'clock. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll do it on Monday anyway. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like to have them 22 before we leave here on Friday. 23 MS. HYDE: Want us to e-mail them to you? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. As soon as you have them 25 available, you can e-mail them or put them in my box or 8-21-08 bwk 108 1 something. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before we leave on Friday. 3 That's all I'm interested in. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we'll have no need to reconvene 5 this afternoon? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not from me. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't sound like it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll be adjourned. 9 (Budget workshop concluded at 12:19 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 12 STATE OF TEXAS | 13 COUNTY OF KERR | 14 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 15 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 16 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 17 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 18 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of September, 19 2008. 20 21 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 22 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter 24 25 8-21-08 bwk