1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, September 15, 2008 11 6:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 2 1 I N D E X September 15, 2008 2 PAGE Receive citizen input regarding proposed tax rate, 3 proposed budget, and proposed salaries of elected officials 4 Joseph Benham 4 5 Irving Andrews 8 Tom C. Price 9 6 Catherine Fox 14 Sean McGinnis 17, 32 7 William Beltrone 18 Lowell Hendricksen 20 8 Ana Keller 23 Harley Belew 24 9 Sheriff Hierholzer 27 10 --- Adjourned 33 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, September 15, 2008, at 6:00 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. 8 It's 6 o'clock, so let's get started. This gathering is 9 pursuant to a notice that was posted pursuant to the Open 10 Meetings Act for a meeting to be held at 6 p.m. Monday, 11 September 15th, 2008, at the Kerr County Courthouse, 12 Commissioners' Courtroom. So, you're in the right place, and 13 it's the right time and the right date. The purpose of the 14 meeting, as stated on the agenda, is to receive citizen input 15 regarding the proposed tax rate, proposed budget, and the 16 proposed salaries of the elected officials, with a notation 17 that no action on any of the above subjects will be taken. 18 Preliminarily, I would ask that any of you that 19 wish to speak, there are participation forms at the back of 20 the room. I would ask that you fill those out and get those 21 up here so that I'll not fail to recognize you. Also, 22 Commissioner Williams had a commitment from some folks that 23 came in from out of town, and that prevents him from being 24 here. He did ask me to assure everyone that he would, in 25 fact, read the transcript of the meeting and the proceedings 9-15-08 cc 4 1 that are held here this evening. Also, our County Attorney 2 is not present, and he sent a memo to the members of the 3 Court in which he stated that he apologizes for not being 4 present, but that he did have a previously scheduled church 5 committee meeting at the same time, and since the agenda item 6 eliminates any Court discussion or decision-making, "I deem 7 it more appropriate to go to my prior committee meeting," he 8 will not be here. 9 That having been said, the purpose of the meeting, 10 as again stated, is to receive input regarding the 11 proposed -- citizen input regarding proposed tax rate, 12 proposed budget, and proposed salaries of elected officials. 13 The first public participation form that I have is from 14 Joseph Benham. If you'd come forward, please, sir, and state 15 your name for the record, and your address. I would ask that 16 all of the rest of you, as you come forward and speak, that 17 you state your name and address so that it'll be a matter to 18 be included in the record. Thank you, Mr. Benham. 19 MR. BENHAM: Thank you, Your Honor. Joseph Benham, 20 609 Rim Rock in Commissioner Baldwin's fiefdom. I, with your 21 indulgence, will preface my comments on this with an 22 invitation, since I don't know how soon I will have the 23 pleasure of addressing you again. On November the 11th, at 24 the war memorial out here on the courthouse grounds, a group 25 of veterans and civic and patriotic organizations will have a 9-15-08 cc 5 1 ceremony lasting approximately an hour, paying tribute to our 2 veterans. We have gone back to the historic time of such 3 observances. A few of us here are old enough to remember 4 when it was called Armistice Day, and it commemorated the 5 fact that what they naively called the "war to end all wars" 6 ended at 11 o'clock in the morning on the 11th day of the 7 11th month of 1918. We're going back to the 11th hour of the 8 11th day of the 11th month, except this will be 2008. We 9 would be honored if all of you gentlemen and Commissioner 10 Williams would attend. I want to commend the staff of this 11 building for the way that they maintain those grounds and 12 that memorial and see to it that we have what we need, such 13 as a public address system and access to restrooms and so 14 forth to have these ceremonies. And, again, I would -- we 15 would be honored if all of you gentlemen could see yourselves 16 free to come. 17 Now, I would like to comment on both the tax rate 18 and the budget, in that order. My wife and I feel very 19 strongly that we have an obligation to support the good of 20 this community and this county with our taxes, with volunteer 21 work, and with donations of those resources with which the 22 good Lord has blessed us. I support your tax rate. I've 23 never opposed the tax rate that you gentlemen or any of the 24 other governmental agencies here have proposed. However, I 25 believe strongly that there's a corollary that those funds -- 9-15-08 cc 6 1 in this case, the tax money -- those funds need to be spent 2 as equitably and responsibly as possible, for the benefit of 3 the residents. Obviously, the primary need for those 4 funds -- most pressing need is for things like law 5 enforcement, emergency medical services, fire, but it goes 6 beyond that. There is a need for things that enrich the 7 lives of people in this community that can only be provided 8 by governmental entities. 9 The organization I have the honor to represent, the 10 Friends of the Library, routinely donates $20,000 a year to 11 the library, and we're delighted to be able to do that, but 12 that's all we can do. Our resources are what we -- what they 13 are, and we donate the money that we have available to us, 14 and thousands of hours, literally, of volunteer time to the 15 library, and I'm proud to state that on behalf of our 16 organization. But, much as it pains me to say this about 17 some gentlemen that I know work very hard, and probably don't 18 get nearly as much credit as you deserve -- I've said many 19 times there's a lot more grief than gratitude in public 20 service. Pains me to say this, but I do have to say, I think 21 you gentlemen and Commissioner Williams have not adopted a 22 policy -- policies of late, where the library is concerned, 23 to spend the kind of money that is required to maintain 24 something that enriches the lives of tremendous numbers of 25 people. 9-15-08 cc 7 1 You've heard these figures before, but they are so 2 pertinent that I'm going to ask you to indulge me one more 3 time. This is one of the most intensively used facilities in 4 the state of Texas. More people use this library than live 5 in Kerr County, more than twice as many people as live in 6 Kerrville. To use an analogy, assuming the library in 7 Houston is still there, if the library in downtown Houston 8 were used as intensively as this library is used, they'd have 9 over 4 million people a year going in and out of that 10 facility. This library is important to this county; it's 11 important to this community. It enriches the lives of a lot 12 of people, young and old, little kids, senior citizens like 13 myself. One of the biggest things we do as the Friends is 14 help pay for the large-print books. Given the demographics 15 of this area, large-print books are very important. We also 16 help fund children's reading programs and a number of other 17 things. But this library is important to many, many people. 18 It's important to people of all ages. 19 I've served on enough boards and committees, 20 including some to which I had to be elected -- stand for 21 election, I know it isn't easy to apportion the money. But I 22 honestly believe that if you revisited your policy regarding 23 the library, you surely would come to the conclusion that you 24 don't have to hit it as hard as you've hit it; that you could 25 still provide the necessary services to this community 9-15-08 cc 8 1 without taking a meat axe almost to our library. As always, 2 I'm grateful to you for your time, for your indulgence. As I 3 suspect you've noticed, I feel very strongly about this, as 4 do the 500 and so members of our organization, and many, many 5 thousands of people who don't happen to belong to the Friends 6 of the Library, but use the library. So, I thank you for 7 listening. I do ask you to revisit this. And if, by any 8 chance, you have any questions, I would be happy to try to 9 answer those. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Benham. We 11 appreciate it. 12 MR. BENHAM: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Irving Andrews. 14 MR. ANDREWS: Thank you, Judge. I'm just a person 15 who reads the paper -- local paper, and I've been following 16 the subject of increases to the County employees. And I'm -- 17 I'm a little bit confused, because when it first started, I 18 understood that the purpose was to bring the employees who 19 were the lower-paid echelon up so they were a little more 20 reasonable, as compared to the people who were their bosses, 21 and -- and that pay scale in other areas. And then I read in 22 the paper that that increase came through, which is 23 substantial, and that it was not only passed on to the lower 24 echelon, but was passed on to everybody else, including the 25 Commissioners. 9-15-08 cc 9 1 Well, now, I don't really see the wisdom in that, 2 because if you're trying to bring these -- this one level up 3 in pay grade, and just because they come up in pay grade, 4 everybody else has to jump up, I think that needs to be 5 investigated. As an example, I think -- I don't know what 6 the pay scale is of the Sheriff, for instance, but I think 7 that he should be on a level commensurate with the job he's 8 doing. And I think the people below him should be on a pay 9 level commensurate with what they're doing. I think the same 10 thing applies to the Commissioners. And I think we need to 11 get a clarification of what the intent really is, and why did 12 they -- why did everybody have to be included in that 13 increase originally? I understand from the paper this 14 morning that may have been changed, but that's my feeling, 15 and I think that as a -- as a taxpayer, we're entitled to a 16 little bit better investigation as to the needs of the -- of 17 the county. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Andrews. We 19 appreciate you being here this evening. The next one -- 20 incidentally, for those of you that desire to speak, if you'd 21 be kind enough to fill out a participation form; they're 22 located at the back of the room. Get those up here to me so 23 that I won't miss you. The next speaker is Mr. Tom C. Price. 24 MR. PRICE: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners, other 25 civil servants who are present, friends and neighbors and 9-15-08 cc 10 1 taxpayers. I would like to ask a few questions regarding the 2 pay raise. You know, you hear a lot of things, and sometimes 3 we jump to conclusions prematurely, and I would like to hear 4 from you some answers. I, too, with Mr. Andrews, have been 5 reading the paper, and until today's article, it wasn't 6 nearly as complete as it was written today, and that helped 7 clear up a lot of things for me. I was here last week at the 8 hearing, last Monday, and I waited until noon and then I had 9 to leave, so I don't know what transpired after that, but we 10 didn't get to this issue. So, these were the questions I was 11 going to ask then. Did you vote a pay raise for yourselves 12 last year -- last year's budget? Or I guess it would be this 13 year's budget now. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- any response that you desire, 15 we cannot give you this evening. The agenda is styled to 16 receive input from citizens. 17 MR. PRICE: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And you can state the questions, and 19 they'll be in the record. 20 MR. PRICE: All right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- but we're not allowed, under 22 the styling of the agenda and what the County Attorney has 23 stated to us, to respond this evening. We're here to receive 24 input. 25 MR. PRICE: Okay. 9-15-08 cc 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We'd appreciate any input you have. 2 MR. PRICE: All right. I could input better if I 3 had this information, but I'll do the best I can without it. 4 I would like, for the record, to know if you voted a 5 record -- voted a raise for yourselves last year. I would 6 like to know -- and I don't know; do y'all come in at the 7 same pay rate? And then -- in other words, are your 8 paychecks similar, pretty nearly the same? Or if one's been 9 in longer, do you get step raises and things like that? I 10 don't know the mechanics of this. I would like to know the 11 percentage. I've read and heard percentages, but I would 12 like an authoritative understanding of that. I know that I 13 could probably go to some official here, the Treasurer or 14 someone, and ask these questions, but I would like to get it 15 from someone who knows. I certainly support the raise for 16 the lower echelon. I think they needed it. I think it's 17 justified. If, in fact, you voted a raise for yourself last 18 year, that very well may have been justified. I don't know. 19 And this one may be justified also, if it passes, but it's 20 hard for me to determine what it is with the sketchy 21 information that I've gotten through the paper. 22 I am a retired United Methodist minister, and 23 historically, the Methodist church, beginning with the 24 Wesleys, were very concerned about the lower levels of the 25 socioeconomic educational group of their community, and that 9-15-08 cc 12 1 carried over here to the United States and came west with the 2 circuit riders, and we haven't totally lost that. And so I 3 certainly support this, because I don't know what they're 4 getting either. I would like to know what the starting pay 5 is, if there are step raises, et cetera, et cetera. I'd like 6 to really see a -- it'd be really good for y'all to have an 7 interview with the paper and lay this out so that when we 8 come to these votes, we could either support them with 9 clarity or oppose them with clarity. It's hard to do it the 10 way it's been parceled out. If you are voting another raise 11 for yourself, and if the two come to about just under 12 20 percent, I think this is the wrong time to do it, 13 considering the economy of our country, and now this is 14 exacerbated by the rise in oil prices. Those are going to go 15 up, I'm reading now, that possibly to $5 for a while. 16 And I am concerned about the people who work for 17 minimum wage and a level entry; these are the younger people 18 who are trying to make a living and sometimes educate 19 themselves, get better jobs and such, and some people travel 20 quite a good distance to get a job, and that's getting more 21 and more difficult to afford this. And as a person who comes 22 out of the background who is concerned about this, I think it 23 would be remiss not to say that I am concerned. And I don't 24 know what you make, and I agree with our -- our learned 25 correspondent and commentator here that y'all take a lot of 9-15-08 cc 13 1 grief that you don't always deserve, and sometimes I don't 2 think you take some grief that maybe you do deserve. I would 3 like to know whether you deserve it or not, is the question. 4 (Laughter.) 5 So, if you are voting for a second time to raise 6 it, I wish you wouldn't. I think it is going to put a burden 7 on people that don't deserve it, that have to pay their 8 taxes. I'm one of these people who, at 71 years of age, 9 don't have to pay a lot of taxes right now, and I really 10 appreciate that, and it's helpful. I stepped in the doughnut 11 hole. Do you know what the doughnut hole is? That's when 12 you're paying your -- your insurance for your medications, 13 and you go along -- and I don't call it the doughnut hole; I 14 call it the bottomless pit now. I have suffered three heart 15 attacks in the last 18 years, and I'm pretty healthy now, but 16 I have to work at it. And I -- I rattle when I walk now. I 17 take 12 different medications, and I take a total of 18 a 18 day. And, incidentally, Sheriff, that's why I haven't been 19 volunteering for you in the last few weeks; I've been trying 20 to get that under control and make sure that I'm healthy 21 before I go back in and face your prisoners. But -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I understand. 23 MR. PRICE: -- I appreciate what you and your men 24 are doing, and you have the lion's share of the budget. I'm 25 not complaining about your budget at all. If you want any 9-15-08 cc 14 1 suggestions on how to develop your new building, if you get 2 one, I'd sure be able to put -- give you some ideas, but I 3 doubt if you'll ask me. But, I guess that about says it. I 4 appreciate what you do. I appreciate the time, the 5 integrity. I see some stuff floating around that is 6 inflammatory. I wish that that wasn't brought here. But, 7 you know, I'm just a -- a soft old Methodist preacher, so we 8 don't like controversy or anything like that. So, blessings 9 on you and the Court and this county and the state of Texas, 10 and God bless America. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Price. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We really appreciate that. Is there 14 anyone else? Do we have any more participation forms that 15 haven't made their way up here yet? Anybody else that wishes 16 to provide input to the Commissioners Court regarding the 17 proposed tax rate, proposed budget, and proposed salaries of 18 elected officials? 19 MS. FOX: Sorry about that. 20 MR. PRICE: There are more forms here, if anyone 21 needs them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Fox, come on up. Give us your 23 name and address for the record. 24 MS. FOX: Catherine Fox. Let's see here. I am on 25 the fence with part of this, after reading the last article. 9-15-08 cc 15 1 I was very much opposed to everything until the last 2 newspaper article, which, like someone else previously 3 stated, clarified some things for me. I would like to say 4 that I definitely agree with the previous comments that 5 salaried employees need a pay raise. They are barely able to 6 live with what they make right now, I'm sure. I don't know 7 how I would live if I were in their shoes. So, that said, I 8 know that it's been three years, I believe, as the newspaper 9 said, and now we're trying to play catch-up. And that's the 10 part that really concerns me. I don't like that we, as a 11 county, got ourselves into the catch-up mode. And I am not 12 71, but I will be someday. And I am -- 13 MR. PRICE: God willing. 14 MS. FOX: Yeah. And I'm adamantly opposed to that 15 tax freeze, because now people like me have to pick up the 16 slack. And we have a lot of upper middle class people in 17 this county that could be helping pick up that slack if they 18 were not with their taxes frozen, so that's how I feel about 19 that. But I would -- and if there were some way that we 20 could overturn that in the future, I'd be out there getting 21 that 10 percent on a ballot or whatever it took, go to 22 Austin; I would do whatever it took. I've already spoken to 23 my Commissioner about looking into that for me. I want to 24 know what it takes to try to get that undone. I think it was 25 an injustice to our county. My opinion. Okay. 9-15-08 cc 16 1 Now, as far as you gentlemen getting a raise, my 2 husband and I run our own business, and occasionally we have 3 to hire other people in the oil industry. Right now we have 4 to because of the hurricane. And when we do that, we 5 don't -- even if we make a lot of extra money, we don't give 6 ourselves a pay raise. And I know that there are a lot of 7 people in our community that don't get -- they don't have a 8 pension, say, for example, from the Air Force, like my 9 father-in-law, where they get a tax increase every time it 10 needs to be -- I mean a pay increase every time they need a 11 cost-of-living adjustment. 12 And, so, I would like you to do two things. I 13 would like you to go back to the budget, and I would like you 14 to cut any employees that could be cut, if there was some way 15 that computer technology could pick up the slack for them. 16 And I would like you to consider not giving yourselves a pay 17 raise right now, but put the emphasis on the people that need 18 to be brought up closer to your level, and wait until next 19 year or the year after, just like we do sometimes at our 20 house when we feel like we really need to cut back and bite 21 the bullet. And when I go back over the budget, because 22 that's my job in our company, I'm amazed at what I can find, 23 even when I think I couldn't find anything else. There -- I 24 just believe that when there's a will, there's a way, and I'm 25 hoping that you will really re-examine it one more time. 9-15-08 cc 17 1 Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you 3 being here this evening. Sean McGinnis? 4 MR. McGINNIS: Your Honor, I represent my wife and 5 I -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Give your name and address for the 7 record, please. 8 MR. McGINNIS: Sean McGinnis. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And address? 10 MR. McGINNIS: 1111 Donna Kay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 MR. McGINNIS: My wife and I, we own a -- we build 13 homes; we're a homebuilder here, and also have an investment 14 company. And we -- we have six investment properties here. 15 We do about two, two and a half spec homes a year, and with 16 the market down, we're holding onto our inventory. And, you 17 know, it's going to be the investors that keep -- especially 18 in this small community, that keep this market -- us from 19 getting in this bad market that everybody else is in, and 20 it's going to be the investors that keep us from -- get us 21 out of this. And we've been responsible with our money. You 22 know, we've put -- our goal was to buy a whole bunch when we 23 had bought them, but I just can't hold onto that much. And 24 we -- we employ a lot of people. 25 And, you know, it's -- it's -- I think this comes 9-15-08 cc 18 1 at a bad time, because you have to look at it from the other 2 side; if things get too bad -- I don't know if anyone is 3 paying attention, but Wall Street lost almost a trillion 4 dollars today. That's more than the war has cost since it's 5 been going. Someone's got to pay for that. That's a huge 6 number. That's a scary number. And I think this comes at 7 a -- at a very bad time, and I'm concerned about it. I'm 8 concerned what -- what I will have to do with our employees 9 and how long we stay down. It's not fair for us and our 10 employees, when everyone else can just say, hey, let's vote 11 more money. We're all in this together. We're going to have 12 to see where it goes. I just -- I feel this is in bad taste. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. William Beltrone? 14 MR. BELTRONE: Good evening, gentlemen. I didn't 15 plan on speaking tonight. I wanted to come to hear what 16 everybody else had to say. I do want to point out a couple 17 of things that -- I did the math on pay raises, and I'd just 18 like to say that 13.15 percent was the number I came up with 19 if someone made $1,000 with the increases that I've read 20 about in the paper. Now, if I gave a 13 percent raise to my 21 employees, I'd be bankrupt in about three months. I have 22 looked at other companies and other organizations that wanted 23 to do the exact same thing. "We've got to help our 24 employees," and they came to me with this budget, and I said, 25 "You realize you're going to increase your payroll $394,000, 9-15-08 cc 19 1 and that will put you at a deficit in 12 months?" You can't 2 do a pay raise to such extent, because it's set. If you have 3 to take this back, what are you going to do? You're going to 4 have to lay off employees. You're going to have to say to an 5 employee, "I'm sorry, you were worth it last year, but this 6 year we've got to cut back on the budget, and we don't think 7 you're worth that this year. Or we do, but I'm sorry, we 8 just can't afford it." 9 I don't think there are a lot of us here who 10 appreciate the tax freeze, but that's what we're stuck with. 11 I feel that if we're going to lose $770,000 because of this 12 tax freeze, then if there is a tax increase, why should it be 13 more than $770,000? Our economy right now pretty much 14 stinks. I think we're very lucky here in Kerr County, but 15 we're not going to be that way for long. And if we are, 16 great. Lehman Brothers just went bankrupt or declared 17 bankruptcy, so on and so forth. All of our financial 18 institutions are having a really tough time. One of the 19 other gentlemen mentioned them; they're going down. To take 20 money out of the taxpayers' pockets right now to give 21 employees here a raise, I have no objection with merit 22 raises. Everybody deserves a raise if they deserve it. But 23 to say, blanket, across-the-board 10 percent, personally, I 24 think is a very bad move, and fiscally irresponsible. That's 25 about it. 9-15-08 cc 20 1 Now, I am not suggesting that these people don't 2 deserve it. I know several people who work here. Y'all put 3 up with a lot, and y'all do a lot of good work. There's 4 nothing saying you don't deserve it. But I deserve to pay my 5 employees well also. Other businesses in this community 6 deserve to compete for the same employees that y'all are 7 working with. And if you're going to give them a raise out 8 of my back pocket so that they can continue to work here and 9 spend their money at H.E.B. or wherever else, where's that 10 money coming from? That's just less money that I have to 11 spend at H.E.B. and elsewhere, and to pay my employees to do 12 good work for me. So, anyway, again, I didn't plan on 13 speaking. I'll be more than happy to discuss with anyone 14 individually if anybody has any questions, but thank you very 15 much for your time. And, again, I do appreciate everything 16 that y'all do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Beltrone. We 19 appreciate you being here this evening. Is there anyone else 20 here in the audience that wishes to be heard to give input 21 with regard to the three issues enumerated on the agenda; the 22 proposed tax rate, the proposed budget, and the proposed 23 salaries of the elected officials? 24 MR. HENDRICKSEN: I didn't plan on speaking either. 25 My name is Lowell Hendricksen, and I live at 108 Four Bears 9-15-08 cc 21 1 Trail in Bear Paw. The thing that I have not heard here, and 2 in relationship to the pay increases, I have not heard 3 anything or seen anything that tells me what the City has 4 done to reduce expenses, or the County. And that, to me, is 5 the place to start. You don't start with pay increases; you 6 start with cutting. And I can tell you, from being a member 7 of this community for the last 23 years, that I've seen a lot 8 of excess over those years from the standpoint of various 9 projects around town, those kind of things where you see six 10 guys on a project, two working and four watching, those kind 11 of things. And I'm not coming against those people only. I 12 think that every department in the city should be required to 13 take a close look, and at some point in time, the decision 14 has to be made, as it was in -- in businesses that I had, 15 that you have to cut a certain percentage. 16 Now, I know that every employee that works for the 17 City or the County is not worth what the guy next to him is. 18 He may be worth more; he may be worth less. They should be 19 paid on a merit program, and never a blanket. It should 20 always be on how good they are. And when you have somebody 21 that's not as good as they should be, they're gone, and you 22 try to replace them with a better employee. And you 23 sometimes can, sometimes can't. But the first thing to do 24 is, the City has to show us that you're serious about this 25 thing, but you're serious in the right way, and that way is 9-15-08 cc 22 1 the fact that you are going to analyze every department and 2 say, "Hey, where can we cut some corners?" I know there are 3 some. I can tell you right now, I'd love to spend some time 4 in each department and tell you where they are. But that, to 5 me, is the starting point. And the situation as far as you 6 guys are concerned, I don't know what you make, and I don't 7 care what you make, because whatever it is is very minor 8 compared to what else we've got out here. And I know you're 9 probably not -- you're underpaid, I'm sure, in most cases. 10 MR. PRICE: How do you know? (Laughter.) 11 MR. HENDRICKSEN: Well, I've been in this community 12 a long time. So -- but, anyway, I wanted to touch on that, 13 because I think it's something that really has to be looked 14 at first. You don't just go ahead and arbitrarily say, "Hey, 15 we're going to give a 10 percent increase across the board," 16 or we're going to do this. We -- the answer is, oh, we go 17 back and we take a look at every department. Now, some 18 departments will be understaffed. You'll find out the same 19 thing. But you've got to do it systematically, and it isn't 20 something that can happen overnight. But I appreciate the 21 opportunity to have my say, and I wish you guys luck, because 22 you got a tough job. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Lowell. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 25 MR. HENDRICKSEN: You bet. 9-15-08 cc 23 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here with 2 us. Anyone else? 3 MS. KELLER: I wasn't going to speak either, but I 4 think I will. My name is Ana Keller, and I live at 1468 5 Harper Road. And I'm not an elected official; I'm just a 6 regular old county employee. And I want to thank those that 7 feel that the County employees deserve this raise. I want to 8 thank those tonight for thinking of us. We do have a heavy 9 workload. Me, personally, I enjoy working for the County 10 Clerk. And we -- I'd just like to stand up here and say that 11 I feel that we deserve it, and that I hope that others that 12 feel that we do not would take that into consideration. The 13 whole point that I understood was to help us to come up to a 14 level that was economically affordable; you know, we could be 15 like everyone else at a level. And I just -- it takes a lot 16 of courage to come up here as a county employee and say thank 17 you, and I appreciate it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Keller. 19 MR. PRICE: Good for you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else wishing to be heard? 21 Anyone else? 22 MR. BELEW: I -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, we can respond to 24 some of them. (Laughter.) 25 MR. BELEW: Okay, thanks. 9-15-08 cc 24 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why we have the deputy 2 present. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The last guy with the 4 microphone wins. 5 MR. BELEW: I wasn't going to say anything; I was 6 just going to listen. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get the handcuffs out, 8 Rusty. 9 MR. BELEW: I'm Harley Belew at 1465 Upper Turtle 10 Creek Road. Fellows, I've talked to all of y'all before, 11 including Bill about this, and other topics that have come up 12 from time to time. I'm not shy about telling you what I 13 think or asking you what you think. I've talked to the 14 Sheriff about his need to try to hire good employees, keep 15 good employees. That's important. That would be -- that and 16 EMS would, I think, be our primary concern with pay 17 increases. I would like to think that all of us that are 18 self-employed could just wave a magic wand when gas goes up 19 and have some money there. It doesn't work that way for a 20 lot of us. This country -- you guys are kind of caught 21 between the dog and the fireplug, I know, because you've 22 tried to protect us from increases. Now the economy is bad, 23 and this is just bad timing. And I think everybody -- it's 24 just -- you know, I'm piling on is all, because it is bad 25 timing right now. It's the worst possible timing. 9-15-08 cc 25 1 My gas bill is now twice what it was this time last 2 year to run my car and my wife's car. My utility bill was 3 nearly three times what it has ever been with Bandera Power. 4 And the grocery bill is going up, 'cause they're using all 5 that corn that I used to get in my tortillas and they're 6 putting it in the gas tank someplace. So, everything's going 7 up, and now my taxes go up again. And what's happening, it's 8 killing us by the drop. It's just nickel-and-dime and 9 nickel-and-dime, and that's what's happening to us. And I 10 know when you go and you have to buy equipment, Rusty, 11 everything goes up. And, you know, you got to say, "Okay, do 12 I buy the equipment or do I hire the guy that I need to 13 hire?" Every time the nut job you got in over there tears 14 something up, you've got to replace it, and so everything 15 goes up. You say, "What do you mean, it's going to cost me 16 this much this year? Cost me half that last year." 17 And I don't deny that anybody working here should 18 get a raise if they're doing a good job. In the real world 19 out there, you don't just get a raise because it's that time 20 of year. You get a raise 'cause you did a good job, or you 21 get a raise because your boss doesn't want to lose you, so 22 you don't necessarily have to have a performance review. I 23 don't know how it's done here at the county; you may always 24 have to have a performance review. It's not the "attaboy" 25 system, I'm sure, here. Whatever system it is, it should be 9-15-08 cc 26 1 strictly merit, and not just based on, "Hey, we got some 2 extra money here," or it's that time of year again, or gas 3 prices went up. And I feel for the County employees; I 4 really do. And after my column comes out Wednesday, I'm 5 going to be hiding from every Sheriff's deputy in town, 6 'cause they're not going to like me, but I -- I feel for 7 y'all. 8 And I talked to Bruce about it the other night. I 9 mean, it's just -- the best way I can describe it is, you're 10 between the dog and the fireplug. But you've got -- you 11 better get out your sword, and like with the baby, fella's, 12 you're going to have to really do some of Solomon's wisdom on 13 this. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you 14 don't. And next year the economy could be better, could be 15 worse, so it's a crap shoot too. I hope that you will be a 16 little more selective with how you place the raises. As I 17 understand it, you guys got a 7 percent raise last year. The 18 -- the numbers that I'm looking at show -- everybody keeps 19 talking about 10 percent; it's more like an 11 percent 20 increase that we're talking about now. It doesn't have to be 21 straight across the board, everybody gets a raise. 22 You know, I had a boy that played on the soccer 23 team over here; he wasn't worth a flip. He gets a trophy 24 too. I didn't want him to have it, you know? Everybody 25 shouldn't get the trophy, and everybody shouldn't get the 9-15-08 cc 27 1 raise. And if you can't pick through that, that's what -- 2 that's what you guys are paid for. That's what all the 3 people in the courthouse here are paid for, is to pick 4 through and do that hard work, sit there and crunch the 5 numbers and all the stuff. And I agree with these -- with 6 Mr. Hendricksen; you can go back through, I'm sure, and find 7 other things that could be cut, and you should do that. It's 8 better for public relations, anyway, in the county, if 9 nothing else, that they don't think that you guys are sitting 10 up here voting yourselves raises when they're paying twice as 11 much as they did for gas last year. So, there's a 12 self-preservation component in it, too. That's all I have to 13 say. Thank you very much. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Belew. Any more 15 participation forms? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No form, just a speaker. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll address this to you, 19 Judge. You don't have a form, and I don't think I need to 20 fill one out. But it's mainly -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Why shouldn't you have to fill one 22 out? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you know who I am and 24 where I live. For those in here, my name is Rusty 25 Hierholzer; I'm the Kerr County Sheriff. I've been a county 9-15-08 cc 28 1 employee for a little over 28 years. This year -- and just 2 to let people know, and I'm more or less speaking to y'all, 3 but I'd like the audience to hear some of this. The County 4 probably messed up the last number of years by trying not to 5 raise taxes, and not raising them hardly anything, and -- 6 and, you know, I think even our financial adviser said they 7 should have done some last year, and we didn't. As the 8 elected official that has the majority of the employees, I 9 have right at 100 of the 275 or so total county employees, 10 and I by far have the largest budget, between running a jail 11 and -- and the Sheriff's Office, and then courthouse 12 security. We do a lot with grants to try and save the 13 taxpayers. We just installed a little over $130,000 in 14 security stuff around the courthouse that didn't cost the 15 taxpayers a dime. 16 But this year, all the department heads and elected 17 officials came together, and we decided it was time to cut 18 our budgets as much as we could so that the employees could 19 get a raise. Because what we're facing -- and I'll use my 20 department to give an example to the public. My starting 21 deputy makes 5,000 less than a Kerrville police officer 22 starting just out of school. He makes 8,000 less than a 23 Gillespie County deputy. He makes 7,000 less than a Kendall 24 County deputy. I had a deputy opening this year that I've 25 had for an entire year, because I can't fill it. I've lost 9-15-08 cc 29 1 deputies to Kendall County. I've lost jailers to Kendall 2 County. I can't keep them. We -- this county has not paid 3 the salary that we can keep our employees, and it is a shame. 4 We should have done more in the past, but it is at a serious 5 situation now. 6 And I'm not going to talk about their elected 7 salaries. I will give you one quick example, mine. From 8 what I understand, my elected salary, running a jail, running 9 the biggest department, and being the chief law enforcement 10 officer in the county, is 40,000 a year less than the 11 Kerrville Police Chief, okay? I think it's time the County 12 stands up for their employees and their elected officials and 13 does something. It does -- our cost -- and I agree, 14 everybody -- I'm a homeowner inside the city. I'll 15 probably -- regardless of what raise they give me, I may see 16 a deduction by the time I.R.S. gets through with it and by 17 the time my taxes go up. But I am a very strong believer, 18 and after seeing all the department heads and elected 19 officials come together and cut their budgets, cut what they 20 were asking for -- we cut a lot. I cut from two cars -- or 21 from five cars down to two, and we're going to be driving 22 cars with 180,000 miles on them next year to 190,000, and one 23 or two of them with 200,000, because it was that important 24 for our employees to get a raise and for us, as leaders, to 25 start taking care of, as the Human Resource Department puts 9-15-08 cc 30 1 it, and I don't like it, our "worker bees." But it is. 2 They're the people that make up this county, and they're the 3 people that, if we weren't there -- you know, they weren't 4 there, none of us would get anything done. 5 Crime doesn't go down. Hard times just makes it go 6 up, and that's all it does. And crime isn't just law 7 enforcement. It's the County Clerk's office, it's the 8 District Clerk's office, it's the court, because it just 9 overloads our entire criminal justice system. City of 10 Kerrville does not pay for our courts. They don't pay for 11 the district court to run it, county court to run it, J.P. 12 courts, jail or anything else. They don't pay for that, 13 because citizens pay city taxes also, but they pay county 14 taxes. So, the City of Kerrville doesn't fund us. But I, 15 for one, appreciate what the Commissioners did and what 16 they're trying to do. In 28 years, it's the first time I've 17 seen every elected official and department head come 18 together. And in 28 years, yes, it's a big increase, but 19 it's the first time I've seen an increase that may keep our 20 employees. You're not going to get good employees if you 21 have to scrape the bottom of the barrel because you're not 22 paying the ones you have enough. When they can drive to 23 Fredericksburg or Boerne and make 8,000, 9,000 a year 24 difference, the gas price doesn't make up for that. 25 Kerrville's the best place in the world to live and 9-15-08 cc 31 1 to raise kids. I've raised four of them and got nine 2 grandkids here, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. But 3 I, for one, am willing to bite that bullet and pay those 4 increase in taxes so that we can have decent employees and a 5 good county government. And as far as cutting too many 6 employees, let me give the gentleman one point of view. I 7 can't tell you how many city officers there are in the street 8 at a time. If you're like me, you see an awful lot of cars, 9 okay? But in the county, as far as patrol, if everybody's on 10 duty and I don't have anybody off, nobody's sick and nobody's 11 in school or anything else, I have a total of five officers 12 patrolling 1,100 square miles. Normally -- 13 MR. HENDRICKSEN: I'm a big supporter of you. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I appreciate that, but 15 it's all the county employees, okay? Normally, I have four 16 officers for 1,100 square miles. I'll stand here in front of 17 anybody and tell them I think we got the best law enforcement 18 agency in this part of the state, especially with what little 19 we have to work with. So, gentlemen, thank you for doing 20 what you're trying to do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was his name again? 23 (Laughter.) 24 MR. McGINNIS: Can I speak again. Is that 25 possible? 9-15-08 cc 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't want this to turn into a 2 rebuttal of a surrebuttal of a surrebuttal. 3 MR. McGINNIS: I want to clarify something. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MR. McGINNIS: What I said before is, Rusty, you -- 6 Rusty's my neighbor. We actually live right across the 7 street. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: My condolences. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I was going to say -- 10 (Laughter.) I was going to chunk rocks this evening. 11 MR. McGINNIS: I know how he struggles, and you 12 know what? It -- with what Mr. Hendricksen said, and Harley, 13 we can't -- why I'm here tonight is -- is, my wife and I 14 started with nothing. And I believe, you know, I've grinded 15 my way to the top, and I -- we just can't go give everyone a 16 raise. We just -- it's ridiculous. I mean, instead of -- 17 why don't you give Rusty 20 -- all his guys 20 percent? I'm 18 friends with a lot of police officers in town. I know what 19 they make. I know the Sheriff makes less. And we just can't 20 just give money away. It's just -- you just can't. If we're 21 going to do this, it has to go where it needs to go. But I'm 22 still -- I still feel the same, that it's in bad taste. But 23 -- but I just wanted to say that I -- it's -- okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate all of you being here 25 tonight and participating. And we have no more participation 9-15-08 cc 33 1 forms, so that'll conclude the meeting. Thank you for being 2 here. 3 (The meeting was adjourned at 6:50 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 17th day of September, 14 2008. 15 16 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 17 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9-15-08 cc