1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, October 13, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X October 13, 2008 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 5 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, approve amending Court Order No. 31031, replacement of election judges and 5 alternates for term of one year in accordance with Texas Election Code -- 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 7 to approve nominations of Mark T. Cowden and Thomas L. Moser to Kerrville/Kerr County Joint 8 Airport Board 15 9 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to amend current burn ban order 21 10 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 11 to accept the resignation of Elizabeth Hughes from Emergency Services District 1 24 12 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 reappoint Ron Vick to Kerr 911 Board of Managers 24 14 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and pest 15 control contracts 25 16 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to rescind Court Order No. 30817 declaring the 17 old Environmental Health vehicles as surplus and allow 2000 Jeep Cherokee to be used as a 18 courthouse vehicle 27 19 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve resolution for Dietert Center to 20 assist them in qualifying for their grant application to the Texas Department of 21 Agriculture for home-delivered meals 29 22 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 reappoint Precinct 2 Commissioner Williams to the AACOG Board of Directors for a new term to 24 expire December 31, 2010, and forward appropriate notification to AACOG 37 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) October 13, 2008 2 PAGE 3 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2009 resolution for the Indigent 4 Defense Grant program 38 5 1.6 Open bids for courthouse windows 39 6 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on Kerr County filing an appeal with the TWDB 7 concerning desired future conditions set for the Edwards Trinity Aquifer by GMA-9 45 8 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 approve a tax exemption under Property Tax Code for the B.P.O. Elks, Kerrville Lodge #2081 52 10 1.10 Public Hearing concerning final revision of 11 plat for Lots 11 & 12 of Four Seasons Addition, Precinct 1 61 12 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 accept final revision of plat for Lots 11 & 12 of Four Seasons Addition, Precinct 1 62, 82 14 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 approve rules relating to format of ESD No. 1 and ESD No. 2 audit and report 65 16 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 17 regarding policy and procedures for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 73 18 4.1 Pay Bills 75 19 4.2 Budget Amendments -- 4.3 Late Bills -- 20 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 79 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 80 22 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 23 employee issue (Executive Session) -- 24 --- Adjourned 93 25 4 1 On Monday, October 13, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Good morning, ladies and 8 gentlemen. Let me call to order this regular meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, October 13th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. If you'd please rise and join me in a word of 12 prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 15 any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 16 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel 17 free to come forward at this time. If you wish to be heard 18 on a particular agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a 19 participation form. They're located at the back of the room. 20 It's not absolutely essential that you do that; it just helps 21 me to make sure that I don't skip over you when we get to 22 that item. If we get to a particular agenda item that you 23 wish to be heard on and you haven't filed a participation 24 form, get, my attention in some manner; I'll see that you 25 have the opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's 10-13-08 5 1 any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 2 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come 3 forward at this time. Seeing no one coming forward, we'll 4 move on with our agenda. Commissioner Baldwin, you got 5 anything for us this morning? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't -- I don't have 7 any county business. On a personal note, yesterday was my 8 lovely housewife's birthday, and I did something very special 9 for her, and I want you guys to kind of take note. I took 10 her to lunch in Eagle Pass, Texas. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's all. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You can't talk about anything else, 14 of course. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have McDonald's down 16 there, too? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tacos cheaper down there? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tacos are good. Enchiladas 20 are good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have nothing, Judge. 23 Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a quick update on the 10-13-08 6 1 county-to-county group that I've gotten saddled with or stuck 2 with or volunteered for; not sure what happened. The Judge 3 had me go to the first meeting, then he abandoned me. But 4 he's been to a few. Where that is right now -- and so far, 5 I'm lukewarm towards the whole process still -- we're looking 6 at two bills coming out of that group. The bills are being 7 written by U.T. Law School right now, and I'm the one meeting 8 with the law students, which helps a little bit. One is 9 going to be a cleanup of 232. Don Allee in Kendall County 10 has done most of it, but it's really going through -- and 11 just one of the types of things is up under the very 12 beginning part, where we always have the issue that says 13 roads, alleys, parks, and all that stuff. We're adding the 14 word "easement" there so it's real clear that easements are 15 covered by that. Things of that nature. That's really not 16 changing, I don't think, really what any county is doing in 17 the area, but it makes it a little bit cleaner. And trying 18 the get rid of -- changing some of the titles when we're 19 talking about, you know, urban counties, and it's not 20 applicable in the whole state, things of that nature. 21 The other bill is just a -- one that I'm not so 22 sure I have -- how far my support goes on, but it covers -- 23 it's going to be under a -- going under Section 231, to add 24 additional specific authority to hill country counties. And 25 it'll have things covered -- the good thing about it is, it 10-13-08 7 1 will be by county option, and a pick and choose as to what 2 you want on that, and it will either be by vote of 3 Commissioners Court or vote by the public, but it'll have 4 things that -- everything from impact fees to a lot more 5 property reg -- or land use regulations. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They'll like that a lot more 7 in Austin. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And it's, you know, not 9 all bad, not all good. The fact that there's a local option 10 and it can be a pick and choose as to what is approved helps 11 a lot. Some of the counties, I think, you know, there's some 12 need for it. Impact fees, I'm getting less and less warm to. 13 I think it's just a fight that's not worth fighting. But, 14 anyway, so there's -- that's kind of where it's going, but 15 something should be coming out by the end of -- middle of 16 November, I think. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When will that be ready for 18 review by the group? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The bills? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The drafts, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The drafts, I think it will be 22 the middle of November. There's also a resolution that they 23 -- that the group has put together for commissioners courts 24 to -- just to look at with a little bit more explicit things, 25 and we're itemizing there as well. So, I said that I just -- 10-13-08 8 1 my gut feeling is that some of those things weren't going to 2 go through Kerr County Commissioners Court. We can line 3 things out that we don't support, and then we -- that way it 4 can be narrowed down for each county, but that's kind of 5 where it's going. And the Legislature -- some of the 6 legislators have asked for a resolution. 7 And the other thing, wind farms aren't on the -- no 8 wind farms. Wind farms are becoming a hot -- hot topic, 9 especially in Gillespie County, but also in Kerr County, 10 'cause the lines are coming through Kerr County. There's two 11 to four, depending on how you look at it, lines, each 12 180-foot-wide right-of-ways that are coming from the 13 northwest to Comfort -- or one of them's going out of Comfort 14 back up through Kerr County. And the Judge and I met with 15 some people from Gillespie County a week or so ago, got up to 16 speed a little bit about that, and we're going to be working, 17 probably -- or I'll be working, probably, with Commissioner 18 Williams on a resolution. That -- and it will be somewhat 19 similar to what we did on the other power lines, as basic 20 guidelines that we hope the P.U.C. follows when they're 21 picking their routes. But these are -- there's some 22 pretty -- potentially pretty big impact to land, and 23 certainly in the eastern part of the county. They're big 24 lines. That's about it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 10-13-08 9 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have several things, one of 2 them being we had the Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department 3 fundraiser over the weekend, and it was well-attended, 4 probably 600 people. I think they made some money; that was 5 real positive and went off very well, we thought. And second 6 note is that is there's another one of our old -- not really 7 a crony, I guess you might say, but one of the fixtures of 8 the Hunt area for a long time, Lloyd Crenshaw, is very ill. 9 He had a stroke and a heart attack about a week or so ago, 10 and is in intensive care in San Antonio, and don't believe 11 the old boy's going to make it. I think this is going to be 12 his last -- he's 92, or turned 92 back in May. Been around 13 up in that area for a long time, and has been barbecuing, 14 cooking, whatever, with the Hunt Fire Department group for 15 many, many years. So, we'll keep him in our prayers. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's the governor of Hunt. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He is the governor of Hunt, 19 and we lost the mayor here a while back, Joe Isenberg. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And you don't 21 re-elect people out there in Hunt. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, they just die. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When it's over, it's over. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They just die. But, anyway, 25 kind of sad, but old Owen's lived a pretty colorful life, and 10-13-08 10 1 he's been a lot of fun for a lot of people and been a big 2 inspiration to a lot of people in our area. On another note 3 that I want to bring up -- and I found it in our -- in our 4 budget that was approved after the fact, that I believe that 5 all of our -- all the county employees and election -- I 6 mean, not election; county employees and elected officials 7 and department heads got a certain amount of percentage of 8 raise. The elected officials and department heads, 9 8.12 percent, if I'm correct. And, somehow or another, the 10 County Auditor got a higher percentage than that, and I'd 11 like to know why that was done and how come it was done above 12 what we gave our -- what was approved by this Court to give 13 our elected officials and department heads. That number has 14 increased since her beginning work in '06-'07 budget, which 15 came -- actually, her -- she came in '07, same time I did. 16 From that time of $60,000 approved salary by the District 17 Judges, it has now gone to over $75,000, and by my rough 18 calculation, that's over 25 percent in two years, and I'd 19 kind of like to know how that came about and see if there's 20 not some way to correct that back to what our employee -- our 21 department heads and elected officials receive. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How is it -- from last year 23 to this -- this budget we're in right now, this new thing, 24 how's it compare with what we -- what we approved? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I believe, by our 10-13-08 11 1 budget book, somehow she got into 67,000 and some-odd number 2 last year. Within that first year, it went up over 3 11 percent. And then this year, I believe, if you calculate 4 it out, it's over 10 percent on top of that. That gets you 5 up to the 25 percent. And I just think it's unfair for one 6 individual to receive more than what was approved by this 7 Court for everybody else. That's the end of my argument and 8 my statement. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the county-to-county 11 thing, Jon, I apologize for bailing out on you. As you know, 12 it was right after that thing got started that I got into my 13 incentives committee meetings on those same Fridays for a 14 period of several months, so -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, it's a little bit late 16 for him, this apology thing to come about, isn't it? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Could be, but I -- I needed to 18 respond, of course, so that the record would be clear. There 19 were at least a couple of us that were the guests of 20 K.P.A.S., Kerrville Performing Arts Society, at their 25th 21 anniversary opening event yesterday. Commissioner Williams 22 and I were there. A nice event, San Antonio Symphony. That 23 organization has come a long ways in 25 years. It started 24 from virtually nothing, and they put on some really major 25 productions. And those of you that are interested in those 10-13-08 12 1 cultural type activities, why, you may want to take a look at 2 what they have upcoming. The -- the budget numbers with 3 regard to the Auditor's office are driven by the District 4 Judges, as I'm sure all of us know here. When those District 5 Judges issue an order and say, "Here it is," I think we're 6 obligated to follow it, and that's what the Government Code 7 says. And maybe you want to take that up with those folks. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I intend to. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Be my guest. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To find out if they knew that 11 they were doing that over and above what was approved by the 12 majority of this Court, and I will ask the question of them. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Have at it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can I do one quickie, 16 Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is a -- the school 19 board election in Center Point this year, for a variety of 20 reasons, I guess, has attracted nine candidates for four 21 spots, and coming up on the 20th, the Center Point Alliance 22 for Progress will do its candidate forum, so all of those 23 candidates for school board can understand what the issues 24 are and what the public wants to know about. Also, it gives 25 me an opportunity to introduce to Center Point folks, since 10-13-08 13 1 I'm moderating that event, Dr. Gordon Morgan, who the Court 2 knows moved from Precinct 1 to Precinct 2, and is now an 3 unopposed candidate for re-election to the -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Headwaters. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Headwaters Board. So, 6 folks over there need to get to know him a little better. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think there's also a 8 forum for the Hunt School Board coming up. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There is. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And there's some pretty hotly 11 contested issues out there, both as to those positions on the 12 school board, as well as two proposition bond elections, is 13 it not? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's exactly true. 15 They're -- I think that forum, I believe, is on -- is it on 16 the 20th? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's when this one is, 18 too. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Irene? I can't remember 20 exactly. I'm going to stay in my own area. 21 MS. VAN WINKLE: I'll call you. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is my area, but I don't 23 live in that school district. So, that -- that has really -- 24 that school board election and bond election has divided that 25 community unbelievably. I've never seen that happen in that 10-13-08 14 1 area before, but there are -- it's very, very controversial. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wish that it would spread 3 east to Comfort. Not the controversy, necessarily, but the 4 interest in running for the school board. Because -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's eight candidates in 6 Hunt running for four spots. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, you have the same 8 situation I have. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. And I think you have 10 one group that's trying to gain -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Majority. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- majority for one side of 13 the bond issue, and the other group for the other side. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, my understanding is there are 15 two slates of candidates of four each. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they are being promoted 17 with signs on the side of the highway. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Signs and vigor, huh? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Signs and phone calls and ads 20 in the newspaper, and -- very interesting. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: School board elections are 22 interesting when they get controversial. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If we've got nothing else, 24 let's go forward with our agenda. Item 1, the Clerk has 25 asked that I pull that particular item. 10-13-08 15 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we did that, 2 Judge. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We did one similar to that, I think, 5 but I'm not sure if it was that one. It may -- so we'll go 6 to Item 2; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 7 approve the nominations of Mark T. Cowden and Thomas L. Moser 8 to the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board. I got a 9 message this morning just before we got started that 10 Mr. Bobertz was not going to be able to be here. He, of 11 course, did want the item to go forward. Commissioner 12 Williams, do you want to run with it? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, I'll be happy to 14 speak to it, Judge. The Airport Board has reviewed several 15 candidates for the two open position, and have sent the names 16 over, which are Mark T. Cowden and Thomas L. Moser. I think 17 everybody on the Court knows Mark Cowden. He lives in 18 Bruce's precinct, heads up the Security State Bank operation 19 here in Kerr County, and he's a good, solid citizen, and I 20 believe personally would make a fine addition to the Airport 21 Board. The one that you may not know is Tom Moser. Tom 22 lives on Ranch House Road, which is in Creekwood Estates in 23 Precinct 2, and he too is a really, really solid citizen. 24 And if you take a look at his bio, you'll see where he's 25 coming from in terms of his background, which is aeronautics, 10-13-08 16 1 and if I'm not mistaken, he either succeeded or preceded -- 2 I've forgotten which; I think succeeded -- Larry Griffin as 3 head of the Texas Aeronautical Agency for then Governor Bush, 4 and his background is in aeronautics and space travel and so 5 forth and so on. And Tom -- Tom is just an excellent 6 citizen. He brings a wealth of experience to that board, and 7 coupled with -- his experience with that of Fred Vogt, who 8 this Court approved earlier, who also comes with a tremendous 9 background in aviation, and Roger Bobertz, who continues, and 10 Steve King, who we all know, and I think the board is off and 11 running on a good -- in good shape. I -- I couldn't be more 12 pleased at the two names that came over, and I really think 13 this board now is positioned to do good things. So, Judge, I 14 would move -- and others may want to make comments, but I 15 would move the approval of Thomas L. Moser and Mark T. Cowden 16 for appointment to the Airport Board. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 19 the agenda item as indicated. Question or discussion on the 20 motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Additional comment. I think 22 that both individuals bring a great deal of information. I 23 think the -- with Mark, I think we have a combination of -- 24 he's a pilot, or has a pilot's license. Not real active now, 25 but he certainly has business experience, so he's bringing 10-13-08 17 1 both of those things, the business/economic development 2 philosophy and a knowledge of airports to a degree to the 3 board. I think he's a great selection. Tom Moser -- I don't 4 know Tom well, but looking at his resume, he's bringing a lot 5 of that same economic development on more of a national 6 level, or certainly state level, based on some of his other 7 positions and people he knows, and certainly has a great 8 knowledge of the aeronautical industry. So, I think those 9 two look good to me. I know, you know, from what I know of 10 them and the other ones, it's going to be a board that's 11 going to set policy and have the Airport Manager implement 12 it. They're not going to micromanage, but I think it's 13 really important out there for the time being -- or always, 14 but I think that they're the kind of people we need out 15 there, and I think it's -- there is a -- I couldn't be 16 happier to finally get there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a 19 comment about the two guys. I don't know Mr. Moser, but I 20 can say this; that if -- if he did anything anywhere near 21 what Larry Griffin has done, he's our guy. I can tell you 22 that right now, and he's obviously a very bright -- very 23 bright man. The other candidate is several generations in 24 Kerr County, so he has a genuine interest in our community 25 and has been a long -- his family has a long history of 10-13-08 18 1 leadership in our community, and just a -- truly, a quality, 2 quality guy. That's all. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see board member Steve 5 King just walked in. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, god. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very timely appearance. 8 MR. KING: Sorry, didn't get the call. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we just vote real quick? 10 MR. KING: Didn't know it was on the agenda. I 11 talked to Jonathan Friday. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what we got in front of us 13 now. Steve, glad you could be here. 14 MR. KING: Want me to say a couple things? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. Surely. 16 MR. KING: Sorry about that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You didn't come prepared to 18 speak, but you will? 19 MR. KING: Whoa, I guess you have more stuff than I 20 do. Both guys we offered up to you guys -- Mark Cowden has 21 obviously been in the community -- neither one of them are 22 here because they didn't know about it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do know about the 24 appointment, though? 25 MR. KING: We're pretty sure they do know about 10-13-08 19 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They will tomorrow. 3 MR. KING: They will tomorrow. No, they do, and 4 they wanted to actually come. I was under -- we thought it 5 was going to be the next -- the next situation. Anyway, Mark 6 has been in the community for a long time, and served on 7 numerous boards. And we interviewed him, and he's quite -- 8 he's a pilot. His family's a pilot, obviously, his dad and 9 everyone. He's a great guy, and he's willing to -- willing 10 to serve, and we think he offers a lot to the board. Tom 11 Moser, the other candidate -- Tom has a -- do y'all have a 12 resume on Tom? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 MR. KING: He has a very voluminous resume. His 15 resume is pretty big. He's a former NASA -- NASA guy, you 16 know, one of the -- directed a lot of programs at NASA, all 17 the way from the -- the lunar landing all the way to the 18 shuttle. So, he's had a lot of experience, and in writing 19 reports and -- and as far as long-term goals and stuff like 20 that. We felt like he could really help in that position. 21 He's got a lot of -- he was appointed by the governor, 22 obviously, on the space commission, which was the Aerospace 23 Commission, which actually now is a form -- is an arm of the 24 economic development for the state of Texas, and he was 25 Governor Bush's appointee for that and worked with Governor 10-13-08 20 1 Bush on that, and he's a great guy. He wants to serve. He's 2 excited about it, and I think he's going to make a great, 3 great board member. All right. Any other questions? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. King, we thank you for your 5 service on that board, and we appreciate the work you're 6 doing out there. I continue to be amazed at the type of 7 expertise and talent that we have in this community, with the 8 kind of credentials such as Mr. Moser's, such as Mr. Vogt. 9 These folks are absolute experts in the field. 10 MR. KING: And I want to thank Commissioner 11 Williams for bringing Tom to us, because he lives right 12 behind me. He lives on the property right behind me, but I 13 -- I really didn't know his background and everything. But 14 we looked -- after we looked at his background, we had a lot 15 of other candidates; we had a lot of good candidates. We 16 interviewed a bunch of them, and these two just stood out. 17 And Tom was one of the last candidates we interviewed, and he 18 just -- we feel like what we looked for was someone who could 19 offer something to the board, not just serve on the board, 20 because we needed -- we need -- we're going to need a lot of 21 help in the coming year to reorganize this thing and get it 22 going in the right direction. We think we got it going the 23 right direction, and -- and these -- both of these gentlemen, 24 we think, offer quite a bit to the board to help us out. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think -- 10-13-08 21 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Steve. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- approving these two gentlemen 3 will give that board an opportunity to be fully constituted 4 and up and running and ready to roll. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No more excuses? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Wonderful thing. No, I didn't say 7 no more excuses, Buster. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's what I heard -- 9 kind of heard you say. (Laughter.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 11 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 17 to Item 3; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 18 amend current burn ban order. You can go get you some -- 19 some weather hours in that aircraft now. 20 MR. KING: I'm going to go take a shower now. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I received an e-mail from -- I 23 can't think of his name -- Keith. Keith -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Spenrath? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. It will pop up in here in 10-13-08 22 1 front of me in a minute. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keith Blair. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keith Blair. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it relates to -- I guess he 6 looked at our burn ban order, and there is a -- a section of 7 the state law that we have not -- according to him, he didn't 8 feel we had covered in our burn ban that we keep in effect 9 year-round; that is, that certified burn managers can burn 10 whenever they want, bottom line, and we have no control over 11 limiting when or when they cannot burn. And I am familiar 12 with that. The issue has been, up until now, that -- because 13 the Legislature passed it several years ago, but there was no 14 way for these guys to get the insurance that was required by 15 the statute. And there is a company -- I believe it's out of 16 Colorado -- now that does write this type of insurance for 17 burn managers, and there's about 13 or 14 around the state 18 now. Not a whole lot of them, but he is one of them. And he 19 thought that we should amend our permanent burn ban to comply 20 with this provision of state law, and I see no problem doing 21 that. I concur, because I don't think there's really a 22 requirement that they do what they -- you know, their law 23 trumps ours anyway, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would make it 25 consistent. 10-13-08 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I recall that being a discussion 3 when we were talking about renewing the burn ban order, and 4 it was discussed, and my recollection of the discussion at 5 the time was that, you know, they're exempted by statute, so 6 whether we say anything about it or not, they're -- they're 7 good to go. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I think they just 9 wanted it more sort of for clarity from their standpoint, 10 because if they're out -- anyway, I'll make a motion that we 11 amend our burn ban order to include this applicable provision 12 that's attached of the state law. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 16 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just have a question. Is 19 there a way, Jonathan, that we can get a list of who in this 20 county are certified burn managers? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everyone in the state that's 22 certified, there is a -- I can get a link to you of everyone, 23 'cause the State keeps track of it. 'Cause it's pretty 24 lengthy requirements. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For when we run across it. 10-13-08 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 3 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 8 Item 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to accept 9 the resignation of Elizabeth Hughes from the Emergency 10 Services District Number 1. Commissioner Oehler? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Elizabeth agreed to serve. 12 We appointed her not very long ago, and she has some family 13 issues with her mother that she's not going to be able to 14 serve, so I move that we accept her resignation from the ESD 15 Number 1. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 18 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 24 Item 8; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 25 reappoint Ron Vick to the Kerr 911 Board of Managers. 10-13-08 25 1 Commissioner Baldwin. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it, exactly what it 3 says. And I move for approval. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 7 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 8 right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now I can call Mr. Vick and 14 ask him if he'd like to serve. But that's the way you do 15 things here. (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't give them a choice. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't give them a choice. 19 Just appoint them and go on. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You get less resistance, don't you? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It appears to be 9:30-ish; 23 we'll go ahead and call Item 4. Consider, discuss, take 24 appropriate action to approve electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and 25 pest control contracts. Mr. Bollier? 10-13-08 26 1 MR. BOLLIER: I have reviewed all of these, and my 2 recommendations for the -- for the plumbing bid is Whelan 3 Plumbing, and they were the only bid. And pest control is 4 Hill Country -- I would recommend -- I recommend Hill Country 5 Pest Control. They were the lowest bid. And HVAC only had 6 two bids, and I recommend that we go to Kerrville Service 7 Company. They were the lowest bid. And for electrical, I 8 had no bids. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who do you use on 10 electrical now? 11 MR. BOLLIER: I use D.W. Electric, and I intend to 12 keep using them, if that's okay with the Court. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: They were awarded the bid last year, 14 as I recall? 15 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Under this same process? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the recommendations of the Maintenance 23 Supervisor. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 24 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10-13-08 27 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 4 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 12, if we 6 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 7 rescind Court Order Number 30817 declaring the old 8 Environmental Health vehicles as surplus, and allow the 2000 9 Jeep Cherokee to be used as a courthouse vehicle. 10 Commissioner Baldwin? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exactly what it says. The 12 only -- the only comment I want to make is that we have the 13 old Cherokee in service. I saw it at 8 o'clock this morning 14 leaving the facility, going to the bank or wherever it was 15 going, and I think this thing's working really well. I 16 really like what I'm seeing in this thing. Jody, do you 17 agree? 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: I agree. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much for your 20 comment, young lady. And I move for approval of the agenda 21 item, Judge. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval. Question or discussion? Commissioner, I note that 25 the agenda item says Environmental Health vehicles, plural. 10-13-08 28 1 Is that going to remove the second one from the surplus also? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. That's the 4 second jeep. There are two of them. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's two jeeps, and we -- 6 we have one at the courthouse, and then there's another one 7 going in service in another part of the county system. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff's shaking his 10 head; it must be going to the Sheriff's Department. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but that's undercover. 12 We can't talk about it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 15 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 16 your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, we have another 9:30. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I do have another 9:30? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, you have a 9:30 there. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I was looking at the 9:45. I 25 apologize. And to you, Ms. Woods, I apologize. We'll go to 10-13-08 29 1 Item 5; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 2 a resolution for the Dietert Center to assist them in 3 qualifying for their grant application to the Texas 4 Department of Agriculture for home-delivered meals. 5 Ms. Woods, always a pleasure to see you. 6 MS. WOODS: Good morning. It's a pleasure to see 7 you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for what you do. 9 MS. WOODS: Well, thank you. First, I want to 10 thank the County for your incredible support of the Dietert 11 Center for all these past several years. If y'all hadn't 12 been supporting our effort, we wouldn't have been able to 13 apply for this grant last year. We -- just to recap real 14 quick, the Texans Feeding Texans grant program was set up by 15 the Department of Agriculture to fund unfunded meals for 16 home-delivered meal providers. Last year, we did about 17 18,000 meals, and the original information we had said the 18 grant would fund up to a dollar for each meal that was 19 unfunded. So, we thought 18,000 would be really a great gift 20 for us. As it turned out, we ended up getting $75,000. Too 21 few providers were able to apply for the grant, either 22 because their county didn't make a gift towards them like 23 y'all do to us, or they just didn't know about it. This year 24 we've got about 21,000 meals, and it's based on the unfunded 25 meals from your previous fiscal year. So, they've been 10-13-08 30 1 promoting this a great deal, so we're not anticipating 2 getting much more than a dollar per meal, but that still is 3 incredible help for our program. What I'm here to ask y'all 4 for is another resolution like you passed last year that 5 basically says you certify that we are a home-delivered meal 6 provider, and that you also approve our accounting system or 7 fiscal agent. So, I hope that you again will help us with 8 this. Certainly, it's a grant that would make a huge 9 difference for our program. And we very much appreciate the 10 fact that you've been able to grant us funds each year to 11 support our efforts in this area. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It's my understanding that there 13 have been additional counties that have been providing 14 financial support to their homebound meals, Meals on Wheels 15 programs, in order to qualify for this program, because 16 there's a -- there's a minimum match, as it were, from 17 counties? 18 MS. WOODS: That's correct, yes. I think it has 19 been able to spur a little bit more support in other counties 20 that weren't as forward thinking as y'all are, to support the 21 elderly in their community, which I think is part of the idea 22 behind the Department of Agriculture as well. There are some 23 counties that put folks on a waiting list. They will only 24 provide the meals that they have government funding for. 25 We've never done that at the Dietert Center, and knock on 10-13-08 31 1 wood, I hope we're never in a position where we have to do 2 that, because folks in their home, sometimes that meal is the 3 one thing that helps them remain independent and be where 4 they want to be. So, so far, we've never created a waiting 5 list, and we sincerely hope that we won't have to. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tina, the number 21,000 is 7 -- is the '07-'08 number? Number of meals served? 8 MS. WOODS: Our fiscal year just completed. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MS. WOODS: It ended September 30th. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's -- 21,000 is 12 over 18,000 from the previous year; is that what you said? 13 MS. WOODS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it continuing to rise? 15 MS. WOODS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The number of 17 home-delivered meals? 18 MS. WOODS: Yes. We're up to 233 a day now. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 20 MS. WOODS: I think when I visited with y'all last 21 year, we were about 218, 220. So, it does continue to 22 increase. We're at a point right now where we're getting a 23 second route in midtown Kerrville. We have 13 routes now; 24 we're going to 14, just to meet the demand that's out there. 25 So, we know folks are using this service and need it. 10-13-08 32 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are your congregant meals, 2 the meal that you serve -- the congregant meals, is that 3 number holding? Is it going up or down? 4 MS. WOODS: We had a slight dropoff earlier in the 5 year, I think when gas prices got so high. We had a 6 suggested donation of $5 per meal. In our area -- it's 7 always a donation, but as y'all know, the folks of Kerr 8 County are going to pay their way. And we had seen our 9 congregant diners decrease. We took the lead -- well, Boerne 10 had reduced their congregant meal suggested donation because 11 they were experiencing a dropoff as well, so we did that in 12 September, and our average congregant diners went up to 81 13 for the month of August. So, folks want to pay their way, 14 but we now ask for a $3 donation. It doesn't cover our 15 costs, of course, but we need to have folks be able to come 16 in and eat. We also weren't able to pull down some of our 17 contract dollars because we had too few diners, so there's -- 18 as you know, Commissioner Williams, there's a balance between 19 what AACOG will fund and the program income you report. So, 20 our board, at the last meeting, passed that we would continue 21 the $3 donation through the end of this year, because we 22 really think -- we did a survey of those who weren't coming 23 any longer, and the number-one thing that they listed was the 24 donation was too high. So, by dropping that, that really did 25 make it available for more folks. 10-13-08 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Woods, I -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead, Jon. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The third "Whereas" says the 5 County to approve organization's accounting system. Is that 6 something that's done under -- I mean, do we need a formal 7 action? Have we ever done that, formally approved y'all's 8 system? I mean, is it -- 9 MS. WOODS: I know. Last year, that was in the 10 resolution also. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MS. WOODS: I don't know that you've officially 13 approved it. All of our accounting is audited by Pressler 14 Thompson annually. We do an invoice monthly to the Alamo 15 Area Agency on Aging. I guess I should have brought another 16 copy. It's about this thick, where we account for every meal 17 that's been provided or delivered, and they watch very 18 closely what we are doing. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would -- or it says "or fiscal 20 agent," which I presume the fiscal agent is Pressler 21 Thompson. Is that what -- I mean, it says County to approve 22 organization's accounting system or fiscal agent. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a sample 24 resolution. We really need to clean this up and put it in 25 our own format. 10-13-08 34 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but I'm sure we need 2 that language, though. 3 MS. WOODS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- it's kind of a 5 technicality thing. We may need to formally do that at some 6 point, so that we approve -- so they don't come back and say, 7 "Well, you know, show the documentation that you approve 8 their accounting system." 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good point. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: As an agency that receives grant 11 funding, you provide -- you obtain outside audits and provide 12 those audits to state and federal type agencies in connection 13 with all your funding grants, do you not? 14 MS. WOODS: Oh, yes, absolutely. And, in fact, 15 y'all get a copy of our audit. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I recall having seen one previously, 17 yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be just a 19 simple thing just to approve their audit. I mean, something 20 like that. Just 'cause -- but since it is a requirement that 21 we approve it, it seems to me we have to formally approve it 22 at some point. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can clean up that 24 language when we clean up the whole thing. I move approval 25 of the resolution -- of the sample resolution of support for 10-13-08 35 1 Dietert for a grant application. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval as indicated. Question or discussion? Ms. Woods, 5 in connection with your Meals on Wheels program, I'm given to 6 understand that that is essentially a -- a lifeline, really, 7 both ways, for a lot of these elderly shut-ins, as it were. 8 The route driver is able to check on these folks and be in a 9 position to really kind of be an angel to them if the need 10 arises to alert emergency personnel, family members, or 11 whatever. 12 MS. WOODS: Oh, definitely. Definitely. That's 13 one of the requirements, is that, as drivers, they're 14 supposed to give the meal to the recipient and have contact 15 with them. And we've got a process that if, for some reason, 16 they're unwell or they notice some change in their ability to 17 function on their own, then we have emergency contacts that 18 we notify. My husband and I deliver in the Center Point area 19 now, and there was a gentleman one day that, when we went, 20 that was just very weak; he could hardly stand up. So I was 21 able to call back to the office, and his daughter was 22 notified. And he had -- he had a new chemotherapy drug that 23 had made him ill, so his daughter was able to go over right 24 away. So, yes, that's a very important piece. And in many 25 cases, that volunteer driver is the only person that some of 10-13-08 36 1 these folks see on a daily basis, and they get very attached. 2 It's -- it's very rewarding for both entities to be able to 3 provide this service. And we have some that have been 4 driving for us for 20 years, and they're seniors too, the 5 vast majority of them. So, it's a great program. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it is. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I note with interest 8 on the letterhead that Alan Massey of the accounting firm 9 Massey and Itschner is the treasurer of this organization, so 10 they're probably in pretty good... 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think they're going to get 12 in the ditch? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tina Woods, you made a 16 comment earlier, and I'm just -- you said, "Knock on wood." 17 MS. WOODS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wondered, do you use 19 that everywhere you go? Or -- 20 MS. WOODS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, that's pretty cute. 22 MS. WOODS: When you run a nonprofit agency, you 23 never know what's going to happen. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pull all the stops, huh? 25 MS. WOODS: Yes. Yes, we do whatever we can to 10-13-08 37 1 make it happen. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 4 the item? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 5 your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 10 MS. WOODS: Thank y'all so much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Woods, for your work. 12 MS. WOODS: Appreciate it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 14; 14 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint 15 Precinct 2 Commissioner Williams to the AACOG Board of 16 directors for a new term, to expire December 31, 2010, and 17 forward appropriate notification to AACOG. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-13-08 38 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Congratulations, Bill. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Bill's been doing that work for a 5 number of years now, and he's stalwart there. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, him and Ron Vick. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 15; consider, 8 discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 2009 9 resolution for the Indigent Defense Grant program. 10 Ms. Hargis. 11 MS. HARGIS: We have submitted the grant, and as a 12 requirement of the grant application, the Commissioners Court 13 needs to approve the resolution for the grant program itself. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't get much money, but we get 15 some. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion on that motion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a quick question. We 21 have submitted -- we've already submitted it? 22 MS. HARGIS: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now we're approving -- 24 MS. HARGIS: The resolution. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the resolution. 10-13-08 39 1 MS. HARGIS: That's the requirement. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this go along with -- 3 MS. HARGIS: The grant, yes. We have to mail in 4 the resolution before the grant application is a true 5 application. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 8 that motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. It looks as 14 though we're close enough to 9:45. We will go to that 15 particular item. Item 6, open bids for courthouse windows. 16 Jon and his magic knife. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We had some bids? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had some bids. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This time we did, yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The first bid that we have is 21 from D & D Construction. Looks like they're bidding on the 22 entire -- all of the options. Want me to read into the 23 record the totals on these? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It appears that the base bid, 10-13-08 40 1 aluminum wood-clad, single-hung and fixed windows, total 2 149,668. Alternate bid for all aluminum 3000, single-hung, 3 fixed windows, 83,579. Door replacement, 27,100. Upgrading, 4 17,200. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does "upgrading" mean? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the bid on the -- on the 7 doors, maybe it was just the doors that was -- that just says 8 "door replacement." Appears to be a single -- no, that's 9 going to be both -- both -- all the doors. Rather than 10 totally replacing, just upgrading what is there. Okay. The 11 next one we have is from Allen & Allen. These are tied to 12 the options in the bid. Option A is single fixed sash, 13 176,062.52. Adding a gray tint would bring the bid to 14 186,143.56. Option B would be a double sash offset window, 15 176,543.26. Adding gray tint -- the parenthetical is, 16 "closest to existing in appearance" -- would bring it to 17 188,435.51. Option B, double sash with no offset, 18 144,101.56. Adding a gray tint would bring it to 152,702. 19 Front door replacement, 7,261.87. Sidney Baker door and 20 window combination replacement, 7,553.67. The same amount 21 for the Earl Garrett door and window combination replacement. 22 Option C, double operating awning sash with gray tint 23 windows, 181,830.13. Extensive bunch of bids here. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim has his work cut out trying 25 to figure these out. 10-13-08 41 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The next bid we have is from 3 Foxworth-Galbraith. Replace approximately 77 windows per 4 specifications published, $217,985. Replacement of front 5 door per specifications, $36,070. Replacement of door on 6 side of courthouse per specifications, 16,395. Let me make 7 sure there's not some additional... 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You got a big clip. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: While you're doing that, if I 10 could ask the County Attorney a question, or if you can look 11 at -- at these bids, it seems at one point we were 12 thinking -- or talked about, anyway, of not knowing for sure 13 what we were going to do exactly with these windows. I mean, 14 we're going to replace them, or we would like to. Is there 15 any flexibility? I mean, if you just look at how we 16 advertised it, if we have to actually accept these exact 17 bids, or if there's any negotiating that we can do based on 18 the lowest bid. Does that make sense? 19 MR. EMERSON: Sort of. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's just kind of like 21 -- I mean, is there any way we -- to get us into kind of like 22 a professional service type thing? You know. I mean, 'cause 23 I -- it's -- this is real hard to figure out, how this type 24 of a project -- to get the specs out that are uniform. So, 25 if you could just look at it. And the Auditor is already 10-13-08 42 1 shaking her head no, so -- but I don't -- if you could look 2 at how we advertised it as to what our flexibility is on 3 accepting these bids, I'd appreciate it. And there's 4 probably no flexibility, but -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're under the general bid 6 statute. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you're probably right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have another question, too, 9 for the County Attorney. You know, this is a -- this is a 10 lot of money that's going to be spent to do some necessary 11 maintenance of this courthouse, and would it be possible for 12 us to not put this whole burden on Tim to come back and give 13 us a recommendation on which bid is the one he thinks we 14 ought to accept, and get somebody that is professional in 15 this field to review these? And then -- I think we're using 16 Peter Lewis for the Ag Barn project. I don't know whether we 17 need to do something in the next meeting, maybe put it on the 18 agenda to authorize somebody else to review these along with 19 Tim, but I hate to put all this on our maintenance man, who 20 is knowledgeable about a lot of things, but this is a pretty 21 sizable amount of money we're going to spend, and -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Plus -- you're exactly 23 right, I think. But, plus, you -- we're not -- I didn't hear 24 apples and apples and oranges and oranges, which is where Jon 25 was going with his statement. 10-13-08 43 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I agree with you; we 3 either go that route, or we need to have a powwow with the 4 County Attorney, one of the two. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea, and I 6 think Peter is a good choice, 'cause we're using him for 7 another project. I think he'd do it for no cost. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We really like Peter; he'll 9 do it for nothing. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We heard that. He just 11 obligated him, no charge. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a great idea. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I just really -- you 14 know, I would hate to put that on our maintenance man to make 15 that decision, and us -- you know, because I believe there 16 is -- there are apples and oranges in these bids. It's not 17 all -- they're not all consistent from one to the next. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item is not styled in a 19 manner to authorize us to do that, I don't think. We're 20 probably going to have to come back with a new agenda item. 21 And -- and I share your concern. I anticipated that it would 22 be submitted to be reviewed by more than just our Maintenance 23 Supervisor. I was thinking I might be in on that group, 24 since I started running with this ball. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 10-13-08 44 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And probably have been since day 2 one. But I would appreciate somebody that has real 3 professional experience and knowledge about these things, 4 because it's not something that I know fully about. Tim 5 certainly knows more than I do, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm going to try to make a 7 motion here, and I'll see if it works. I'll move that we 8 accept all bids as presented, and refer them -- that we have 9 the County Clerk hold those bids until such time they can be 10 reviewed. 11 MR. EMERSON: I didn't hear all of that, but I 12 think at this time, all you're doing is opening the bids. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Accepting them, and depositing them 14 with the County Clerk until the Court authorizes further 15 action, is where he's going. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That be okay? 17 MR. EMERSON: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I hear a second? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 22 as indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 23 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-13-08 45 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thirteen won't take long. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 13; 5 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on Kerr County 6 filing an appeal with Texas Water Development Board 7 concerning the desired future conditions set for the 8 Edwards-Trinity Aquifer by Ground Management Area 9. 9 Commissioner Letz? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda just 11 to kind of get some, really, direction from the Court. At 12 the meeting that I think all of us were at, they set -- GMA-9 13 set the desired future conditions for the Edwards-Trinity 14 Aquifer, which is a plateau area, essentially. And they set 15 it at zero increase from a 2008 level. Now, there's a lot of 16 questions that I haven't had answered totally as to what that 17 means, how they're calculated, what that means. I visited 18 with Headwaters. They're very much aware that this was going 19 to be on our agenda, that we're looking at doing this. 20 They're not -- they're -- I met with Ms. Summerlin and their 21 General Manager. They do not object to us filing an appeal, 22 and it's kind of, I guess, tentatively maybe viewed as a 23 friendly appeal from their standpoint. They are in a kind of 24 a rock and a hard place. They have to continue to work with 25 GMA-9. This was set over their objection by GMA-9, 'cause 10-13-08 46 1 it's -- each county gets one vote, or each water district 2 gets one vote, and this passed on an 8-to-1, with Headwaters 3 voting against it. But, at the same time, they kind of feel 4 a little bit concerned about them filing an appeal, because 5 they've got to work with these people; they don't want to 6 get -- when it gets to the Trinity Aquifer, they don't want 7 to get the same thing to happen. They want to continue to 8 try the work with GMA-9, so they're not -- they don't really 9 -- they're not upset with us doing this. 10 I visited with Bill Mullican with the Water 11 Development Board. He's the head of this whole area; he's an 12 executive -- Deputy Executive Administrator. And also, I've 13 met with their modeling people and a number of others. 14 They -- based on what I told them my concerns were, which is 15 basically the model that was used, the criteria used using 16 2008, which I'm not sure how they picked that year. And, 17 really, what it means, they're encouraging an appeal, sort 18 of. I mean, they can't say, "File an appeal," but they 19 certainly didn't object to us and say, "Hey, that's a bad 20 idea." They thought it was probably a good idea, based on 21 what I told them. So, I just wanted to -- before I go down, 22 you know, and put together an appeal type package, I wanted 23 to know if the Court is interested in being involved in this. 24 Region J is also going to be looking at it, but I didn't know 25 if the Court wanted, you know, me to bring this back as an 10-13-08 47 1 appeal to pursue it from the county standpoint. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, the -- I've got a 3 question for you. What -- what is the reason -- I mean, you 4 have to have a specific reason to appeal something. I see it 5 as -- we can probably go back to our very first conversation 6 when we started talking about groundwater, and that is the 7 lack of science. It appears to me we have another group here 8 that's launching off into some area where they really and 9 truly don't know all that's going on down there. Now, if it 10 -- if it's -- if it's a reason like that, then, you know, 11 I'll help you spell some cuss words or whatever it takes. 12 But if we are filing an appeal and it's not going to do any 13 good, that's not going to do anything, I don't know that Kerr 14 County needs to be signing off on anything. But if -- but if 15 we have a shot at really appealing and changing something 16 here, let's do it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, what -- how the process 18 works, what you -- the statute language is you appeal the 19 reasonableness of the desired future condition. I mean, you 20 know, don't you love the Legislature? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's appeal that, 'cause 22 that doesn't make any sense. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: None whatsoever. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, so it's a very vague 25 appeal criteria. One of the problems -- and this is a -- to 10-13-08 48 1 me, this appeal is a whole lot easier than a Trinity appeal 2 would be. I've tried to be real quick on it and simple. The 3 Edwards-Trinity, when it rains, it fills up the aquifer. 4 Wells pumping down the spring -- or wells drain it and 5 springs drain it; the rains fill it up. It's a continuous 6 cycle, what goes on out there. To try to set it on a level 7 of a well in 2008 -- or a level doesn't make sense. I mean, 8 in the drought of record, the springs dried up. So, you can 9 never reach the desired future condition, because we know 10 nature will make those -- that aquifer go lower than 2008, 11 because most of those springs dried up in the mid-'50's. So, 12 I mean, it's -- it doesn't make any sense. It's a totally 13 illogical D.F.C. that they've set, and that's my -- it's not 14 reasonable because nature makes it not attainable, and to me, 15 that makes it not reasonable. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you say, Jon, that 17 it's -- it was an arbitrary level that they picked? 2008's 18 an arbitrary time, arbitrary level, without any basic science 19 behind it, and without taking into -- into account any of the 20 conditions that you've enumerated, and there are probably a 21 lot more? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think -- I don't -- I 23 can't explain why they did it. Only thing I can say a little 24 bit is they set the desired future conditions based on a 25 water level, or a monitor level of the aquifer, which makes 10-13-08 49 1 sense for aquifers at the Trinity Aquifer -- Middle and Lower 2 Trinity, 'cause it isn't directly related to the rainfall. I 3 mean, there's a recharge component to it, but it doesn't fill 4 up right away. And this is really the only aquifer in GMA-9 5 that acts like this. You know, it rains, fills it up. So, 6 to me, it was -- you know, I really have no idea why they set 7 it; it makes no sense to me, other than the statute says that 8 they have to have it -- something -- it has to be set in some 9 way that's quantifiable. And "quantifiable" means a water 10 level in the aquifer or spring flow. Those are the two kind 11 of criteria Water Development Board has. Spring flow's real 12 hard to measure. Except in this situation, I think you 13 measure the three forks of the Guadalupe River, or three 14 branches of the Guadalupe River. There's monitors and, you 15 know, flood -- or water level -- flood monitors -- flow 16 gauges at all three of the confluence of those three 17 branches, so we know that it can be measured. And, to me, 18 that's a lot better way to do it. But the other reason is 19 that I think the whole D.F.C. thing is stupid, personally. 20 And I think the appeal is a way -- my son gets mad; I can't 21 say that word. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: He's a well-trained young man. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. But it's a -- I 24 think that it is a way to elevate this whole issue that the 25 Legislature has, put it out a little bit more publicly, and 10-13-08 50 1 to our representative. He has asked that -- you know, myself 2 and Headwaters and Region J, other -- you know, U.G.R.A. try 3 to come up -- get together and speak with one voice. And 4 we're trying to do that, and think I we can do it pretty 5 easily on this one. And Representative Hilderbran is going 6 to be in a position, hopefully, to -- if committee 7 assignments come out the way it's anticipated, he will have 8 some influence, and could be chair of that committee. And I 9 think it's real important that we get a single up to them, 10 and also put GMA-9 on notice a little bit that people are 11 watching what they're doing, and that they have to -- you 12 know, before -- I mean, the first part of the appeal, it goes 13 back to them to kind of look at it, and they can keep it from 14 ever really getting to Austin. But we do not -- you know, 15 from talking with Bill Mullican at Water Development Board, 16 we don't need to spend a whole bunch of time or money, I 17 should say, on an appeal and trying to fight it. We can 18 pretty much say the reasonableness, because it doesn't make 19 sense, kind of as I've outlined here. And it goes -- the 20 process, then it goes to the Water Development Board, and 21 they're the ones that make the decision. That's pretty 22 political. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this appeal, is this a 24 letter from the County Judge? Is this a -- what? I mean, 25 how does -- 10-13-08 51 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will probably be -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get a lawyer to walk in 3 and -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I can probably write 5 it. I'll be writing one for Region J, too. Then I think the 6 Court will approve it. The appeal will probably be a format 7 letter that we'll probably authorize the Judge to sign or 8 something like that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we should do it. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll proceed on doing it 12 and just keep -- you know, and do it as a county appeal as 13 well as a possibly Region J appeal. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't feel like you need any 15 specific authorization from the Court at this time? When you 16 have the appeal ready to be filed, then you'll come back to 17 the Court for authorization? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: To formally file it? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it'll be several months 21 away. I just wanted to get it on the agenda to kind of get 22 some feedback. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got a couple of 10-13-08 52 1 10 o'clock items. Let's go to the first one. Item 9 is to 2 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve tax 3 exemption under Property Tax Code Section 11.184(b(1) for the 4 B P.O. Elks, Kerrville Lodge Number 2081. Mr. Jim Keefe. 5 MR. KEEFE: Good morning, gentlemen. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're with us again. 7 MR. KEEFE: Nice to see y'all. Haven't changed 8 much since the last time. At the last meeting that we were 9 asking for this exemption, a question was brought up by 10 Commissioner Letz about how many other organizations are 11 already exempted. We got a list from the -- the Chief 12 Appraiser of the Appraisal District, and in this, he says he 13 attempted to clean up the file by taking out property owned 14 by taxing entities, governmental entities, volunteer fire 15 departments, religious camps, cemeteries, et cetera. I don't 16 know what the "et cetera" means. But, anyhow, he then 17 attached a list, which I have given to you folks. All the 18 other properties that are already exempted totals up to over 19 $24 million in appraised value. So, I don't know if that 20 answered all your questions. Were there any questions left 21 over from the last meeting? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How -- how much money are we 23 talking about with the Elks issue? 24 MR. KEEFE: Last year we paid $1,027 and some odd 25 change. That's real property and personal business property. 10-13-08 53 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: County -- county? 2 MR. KEEFE: County taxes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $1,000. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question I have is a little 5 bit on the process. I mean, by looking at this list, you 6 know, I don't have a problem with the Elks being tax -- being 7 included on that list. The question is, how does that 8 happen? Is it -- I mean, and I know it's before us to -- it 9 says approve them, you know, but I guess I'm asking the 10 County Attorney to look at this. Is that what -- have you 11 looked at this issue? In particular, as to -- 12 MR. EMERSON: I've looked at this issue a couple of 13 times, and I'm going to give you the same answer. I'm going 14 to refer you back to Jerry Shievers, your tax attorney in 15 Austin, to give you the exact procedures, since it is a tax 16 issue. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On your point -- that's a 18 good point. I don't recall any of these people coming before 19 Court as the Elks did seeking to be exempted, so why -- what 20 precludes the Elks from going to the -- following their 21 wishes and desires by going straight to the Appraisal 22 District? These folks never came before us. 23 MR. KEEFE: The answer to that, Commissioner, is 24 that under the present tax law, fraternal organizations are 25 the only organizations where governing boards of the taxing 10-13-08 54 1 units have to give approval. It's a quirk. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many fraternal 3 organizations are there? 4 MR. KEEFE: In Kerr County? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 6 MR. KEEFE: Two. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if -- if we do one, 8 shouldn't we go ahead and do both of them at the same time? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other's Masonic Lodge? 10 MR. KEEFE: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're not on that list 12 either? 13 MR. KEEFE: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause they haven't been as 15 persistent. 16 MR. KEEFE: They're a fraternal organization. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they haven't been as 18 persistent as Mr. Keefe. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Neither has anybody 20 else. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 MR. KEEFE: I only speak for the Elks, 23 incidentally. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 MR. KEEFE: It's a three-part process, Commissioner 10-13-08 55 1 Letz, to answer your question. The first part is the 2 fraternal organization must apply to the State Comptroller's 3 office for a letter of determination. We have that letter. 4 Second part is, we need the governing body of the taxing unit 5 to say okay. Third part, we then go to the Appraisal 6 District, give them the fact that you have given us the 7 blessing to go to see them. We give them the application, 8 and they make the final determination. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, we're 10 getting closer. 11 MR. KEEFE: I sure hope so. I mean, I like you 12 gentlemen, but, you know... 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I'm in favor of doing it 14 for the Elks, but I think I'd like to -- I think Rex is -- I 15 think we need to put that into a letter form, ask 16 Mr. Shievers or that law firm if they concur with that as a 17 process, and -- and if they say yes, I'll vote to do it. 18 MR. KEEFE: Well, I talked to Mr. Shievers already, 19 and -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I haven't, and he hasn't. 21 But go ahead. 22 MR. KEEFE: He's not much help. This is a 23 situation that very rarely comes up. And, again, the 24 fraternals are the only organizations that have to do it. 25 There's about 40 percent of the Elks Lodges that are exempted 10-13-08 56 1 in Texas. The other 60 percent, of which we're one, have not 2 received approval of the governing boards of the taxing unit. 3 That's where we stand. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would the -- if he isn't 5 helpful, and he may not be, because it's something -- would 6 the Comptroller be able to give us a opinion, if that's the 7 process? 8 MR. EMERSON: The actual process -- that is the 9 actual process. I can answer that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 MR. EMERSON: Okay. And the final determination 12 does come down to the Appraisal District and whether or not 13 they determine that the charitable organization -- I forget 14 what the exact wording is, but it's something to the effect 15 if it uses the property exclusively to the benefit of 16 whatever their goal or purpose is. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if we approve it, can we 18 change our mind a year from now? I mean, is this an annual 19 thing? Can we rescind it if we give it, or once it's done, 20 is it done forever? 21 MR. EMERSON: I don't recall. 22 MR. KEEFE: I can answer that, Rex. If you approve 23 it, and if the State Legislature does not change the law, 24 then every five years we must get reapproved by the State 25 Comptroller's office. 10-13-08 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And go through this three-step 2 process again? 3 MR. KEEFE: It appears that way, Judge. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've got a mission in life 5 now, don't you? 6 MR. KEEFE: Yes, sir, I sure do. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got your compadre there with 8 you. Is she going to -- is she going to pick up the sword 9 and shield if you fall? 10 MS. JONASON: I'm right behind you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- well, a statement, 12 then I'll make a motion. Because the Elks does a lot of good 13 in the community. I mean, the funds -- the money that they 14 have that I see that goes -- goes to youth sports. I mean, 15 you know, you fund Little League and football teams; you do a 16 lot of that. You know, I believe you do -- and also 17 scholarships. 18 MR. KEEFE: Scholarships, yes. We provide 19 Christmas baskets of toys and food to families that need it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's a very 21 worthwhile organization that helps the community as a whole. 22 And if some of the other organizations that I see are on here 23 get that status, I certainly think you should be included in 24 it, and I'll make a motion that we approve the tax exemption 25 status in the Property Code -- or Property Tax Code 10-13-08 58 1 11.184(b)(1) for the B P.O. Elks Kerrville Lodge Number 2081. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'll second this, 3 on -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait. On one 6 condition. Are you going to be back next meeting? 7 MR. KEEFE: If you insist, Commissioner, I'll come 8 back. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, good. I'll second it, 10 then. 11 MR. KEEFE: I don't know what you want me to do, 12 but -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. That's a good 14 thing. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Do 16 we have any discussion on this motion? I think what happened 17 is that the fraternal organizations were caught in kind of a 18 legislative void. 19 MR. KEEFE: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Everybody else was automatically 21 determined to be tax-exempt, and so they didn't have to show 22 up and ask us, or go to the Comptroller or go to the Chief 23 Appraiser, and -- 24 MR. KEEFE: That's it exactly. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you guys were just kind of left 10-13-08 59 1 out there in a legislative no-man's land, the way it's 2 written now. So, every five years, you got to go through 3 this drill. 4 MR. KEEFE: Unless the Legislature passes Senate 5 Bill 1296, which the Senate has already passed, and it's in 6 the House waiting for a vote at next session. But who knows? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one comment, Judge. 8 This list that Mr. Coates sent over kind of answers the 9 question I had. My -- my objection to it in the past was we 10 were going to open the floodgates. It appears that the 11 floodgates -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The flood's already happened. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's already happened, and 14 I didn't see the water go by. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that was Mr. Keefe's point 16 earlier, that they're in this little bitty niche over here. 17 Everybody else is already legislatively home free. Further 18 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 19 by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 24 MR. KEEFE: Thank you, gentlemen. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We look forward to seeing you next 10-13-08 60 1 meeting, Mr. Keefe. It's two weeks from today. 2 MR. KEEFE: Well, that -- Commissioner Baldwin 3 wants me here, so I'll be here. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're going to bring your 5 sidekick with you, aren't you? 6 MR. KEEFE: That's up to her. 7 MS. JONASON: May I approach a minute? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, absolutely. 9 MS. JONASON: If I were younger, I'd climb this 10 thing and give y'all a hug, but I'm not. But this is the 11 scholarship stuff you requested. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Thank you. 13 MS. JONASON: Uh-huh. And you can call me if you 14 have any questions, and thank you. We really do thank you. 15 It's one more scholarship, and maybe more down the line. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wonderful. 17 MS. JONASON: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If the Court will recall, Diane 19 mentioned something at the last meeting, or when we were here 20 previously -- it may not have been last meeting; may have 21 been the meeting before -- about their scholarship process. 22 I asked her if she would provide that information, the 23 process that they go through to qualify these young people 24 for scholarships, so that I can review that, and that's what 25 she's delivering to me. 10-13-08 61 1 MS. JONASON: And believe me, it's complicated. 2 But you're a lawyer, and I'm sure you can figure it out. But 3 if you can't, you're welcome to call me. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You just prompted some comments from 5 down here; I see them coming. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or it will be messed up 7 beyond recognition. (Laughter.) 8 MS. JONASON: I'm not going to get into that. 9 MR. KEEFE: Thank you, gentlemen. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At this time, I will recess 13 the Commissioners Court meeting and convene a public hearing 14 concerning the final revision of plat for Lots 11 and 12 of 15 Four Seasons Addition, as set forth in Volume 5 Page 12, Plat 16 Records, and located in Precinct 1. 17 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:15 a.m., and a public hearing was held in 18 open court, as follows:) 19 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 21 that wishes to be heard with regard to the final revision of 22 plat for Lots 11 and 12 of Four Seasons Addition, as set 23 forth in Volume 5, Page 12, Plat Records? Seeing no one 24 coming forward to express an interest in the final revision 25 of plat for Lots 11 and 12 of Four Seasons Addition, as set 10-13-08 62 1 forth in Volume 5, Page 12, Plat Records, I will close the 2 public hearing. 3 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:15 a.m. And the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 4 reopened.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And reconvene the Commissioners 7 court meeting and call Item 11; consider, discuss, and take 8 appropriate action to accept the final revision of plat for 9 Lots 11 and 12 of Four Seasons Addition, as set forth in 10 Volume 5, Page 12, Plat Records, and located in Precinct 1. 11 Mr. Odom? 12 MR. ODOM: Yes. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to see you this morning. 14 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Kelly's got something we want 15 to pass out to you. This is a revision of the plat. We 16 tried to get it back to you. We didn't get it until Friday, 17 and we thought we'd just bring to it court, 'cause some had 18 already taken their packet with them. But this is 19 basically -- what is added to that is just the setback line 20 to that plat. This is a situation where a home was placed 21 across a lot line, and the revision of this plat will correct 22 the situation. The owners of Lot 11 and 12 came to an 23 agreement to move the lot line over so the owner of Lot 12's 24 home would not be crossing onto Lot 11. By this, as you see, 25 this lot line as shown, this has been discussed. The septic 10-13-08 63 1 system is already in. Just semantics as far as the plat is 2 concerned. Everything was agreed to by O.S.S.F. So, at this 3 time, we ask that you approve the final revision of plat for 4 Lots 11 and 12 of the Four Seasons Addition, Volume 5, Page 5 12. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any problems? I so move. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 10 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, go back to that a 16 second. Leonard, this has a water system, correct? 17 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, sir. What? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A water system here? 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, there was community water. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to do a variance as 21 to the one lot that's now less than 1 acre? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It already has a septic on 23 it, doesn't it? 24 MR. ODOM: Pardon me? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Already has a septic on it? 10-13-08 64 1 MR. ODOM: Already had a septic. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, it's all in there. Our 3 rules says we can't have a lot less than 1 acre, correct? 4 MR. ODOM: That's -- boy. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, probably -- I think we 6 ought to go back and do a variance to allow the one lot to 7 be -- probably .95, something or other. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have a 9 motion to offer to -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold on. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- supersede the motion which was 12 offered in connection with Item 11, to supersede the action 13 just taken? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- the subdivision regs 15 say 1 acre minimum with a -- that's with a community water -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- system? And it actually 18 says -- and it actually says 1 acre? 19 MR. ODOM: Sir, I thought we discussed this before, 20 and I just cannot remember, because I -- I should have 21 looked. I thought that we were perfectly all right when we 22 discussed this in the concept, 'cause I had them bring it 23 here and we discussed that. And I thought that it met -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can always leave it as-is, 25 and we can always come back and put a variance on if we need 10-13-08 65 1 to. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause I'm not real sure -- 3 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, I just cannot remember. I 4 didn't read that. It's been a while; been 30 days ago. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 16; 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 7 rules relating to the format of ESD Number 1 and ESD Number 2 8 audit and report. Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 775, 9 Paragraphs 775.036, and 775.082, spell out that the County 10 Auditor, with the approval of Commissioners Court, shall 11 adopt rules relating to the format of the audit and report. 12 Kerr County Auditor recommends that ESD Number 1 and ESD 13 Number 2 prepare financial statements using the compilation 14 format and issue a compilation report to be issued by an 15 independent certified public accountant. Ms. Hargis? This 16 is to simplify the otherwise complicated and expensive annual 17 audit reports required by these ESD's? 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it is. And -- and, 19 hopefully, after talking with the attorney in Austin, who is 20 one of their legislators, they're going to try to take this 21 into consideration in this next session, that ESD's of this 22 small size are being unfairly taxed with the expense of a 23 full-blown audit, which is not -- as Commissioner Oehler 24 said, it's not reasonable. And this particular format will 25 allow and give us everything that we need, and will still 10-13-08 66 1 provide them with an independent audit, and will not be 2 cost-prohibitive. So, I recommend that you approve this -- 3 this format. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this is just another 5 one of those situations that seems to me to have been blown 6 completely out of proportion. If you'll read the last -- the 7 last little paragraph in 775, it says the person who performs 8 the audit and issues the report must be an independent 9 certified public accountant or firm of certified public 10 accountants licensed in the state, unless the Commissioners 11 Court, by order, requires the audit to be performed by the 12 County Auditor. I think we did that, and our Auditor has 13 not, and has actually refused to do an audit for those two 14 ESD's. And what she gave them is a letter -- some kind of a, 15 you know, goofball thing that didn't amount to anything 16 saying that an audit -- you know, she couldn't do an audit 17 because of this reason or that reason. And, I mean, we're 18 talking about ESD's that probably write a total of ten or 12 19 checks a year, and all their income comes from our County Tax 20 Assessor/Collector who collects taxes for them. I just don't 21 get it, why that they're going to be forced to hire somebody 22 and pay somewhere between $1,200 and $5,000 a year to do an 23 independent audit whenever it says right here that the 24 Commissioners Court can order our Auditor to do those audits. 25 And I want somebody to explain that to me, and especially 10-13-08 67 1 you, Ms. Auditor. 2 MS. HARGIS: Under the rules and regulations of 3 certified public accountants, I must be independent. And 4 with regard to ESD 1 and ESD 2, because we do pay their bills 5 and you, as the Commissioners Court, approve the members of 6 that board, I am not independent. Therefore, I cannot 7 perform an audit, and that is the rules of the A.I.C.P.A. for 8 a C.P.A. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not what it says right 10 here. 11 MS. HARGIS: I -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In 775 it does not say that, 13 so which do we believe? 14 MS. HARGIS: I called the State Board of Public 15 Accountancy last year, and they told me that I could not 16 perform this audit without jeopardizing my license. And I am 17 sorry, I am not going to do that. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. So we will do as our 19 Auditor tells us to do, but we can't tell her one stinking 20 thing that she needs to do, based on what she's telling us. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, let me ask you a 22 question. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, by the way, I've 25 noticed y'all are not getting along. 10-13-08 68 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we don't. We're probably 2 not going to as long as this kind of stuff goes on. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. What I am -- 4 what I'm wondering is, it's kind of like this burn ban issue. 5 I don't know if it's state law or if it's some fellow sitting 6 up in Austin that has rule-making power, and I -- what is 7 this document that we're reading here from the Office of 8 Rural Community Affairs? Is this law? Or is this some 9 burned out hippie sitting around writing a bunch of words 10 down? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe this comes out of 12 the Health and Safety Code. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what it is? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this particular one 15 came from O.R.C.A. 16 MS. HARGIS: The manual that you have in front of 17 you came from O.R.C.A. The Health and Safety Code which I'm 18 quoting here does require an independent audit by an 19 independent certified public accountant. And in most 20 counties, all of the ESD's are required to do an independent 21 audit, and do. In some instances, in the smaller rural 22 areas, which we are one of, ours are very small, and because 23 the amount of funds that they collect are small, they still 24 are required to do this audit, but where you have an auditor 25 that -- a county auditor that is a C.P.A., I cannot, under my 10-13-08 69 1 license, perform this audit. Tommy was able to do so because 2 he was not a certified public accountant. He was not able to 3 do an audit; he can do an internal document that says he 4 didn't find anything, but Tommy is not allowed to state that 5 this is in accordance with the A.I.C.P.A., because he is not 6 a certified public accountant and he cannot do that. The 7 audit they received in the past was simply an internal audit 8 document that provided that Tommy looked at their records. 9 The other thing that Tommy did is, he created the records, 10 and under our independence requirement, an auditor cannot 11 create the document and then audit the documents, and that's 12 what he did. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- you know, it seems 14 to me that this is the same situation as asking an engineer 15 to seal something that they can't do. And, you know, the law 16 may say that, but, you know, if I was an engineer, I wouldn't 17 do it either. If I was a C.P.A., I wouldn't do it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. I don't know 19 why the language is like it is. It should say unless they're 20 a licensed C.P.A., then they can't do it and they have to, 21 you know, approve somebody else to do it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I note with interest under 23 the paragraph that says "accounting system," it talks about 24 ESD's, and must have an accounting system that accurately 25 reflects and tracks records of expenses and cash, blah, blah, 10-13-08 70 1 blah. The accounting system must correspond to the budget 2 accounts to facilitate regular reports to the board -- ESD 3 board and to the county commissioners court, so they can 4 compare current revenues and expenditures. I don't recall 5 ever seeing one from any ESD. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're on file. They send 7 them to me, and I just put them in a file. Jody has them. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I would note -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jody has them. All that 10 stuff is -- you know, I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do 11 with them, but I kept it all, put it in a separate file. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have seen it. I've gotten 13 them. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you would like to start 15 seeing those, I'll make copies and put them in your box. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just wondering. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They are there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, very good. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I would note that the document that 20 we're looking to as backup does come from O.R.C.A., and it 21 says "ESD Operating Guide." That's not the Health and Safety 22 Code provisions. 23 MS. HARGIS: This Health and Safety Code provision 24 is the one that I quoted under 775, and it does call for an 25 independent -- and it's the same paragraph verbatim in the 10-13-08 71 1 Health and Safety Code. This manual came out because, when 2 they came out with the Health and Safety Code that created 3 the ESD's, there was really not enough guidance in the Health 4 and Safety Code as to what they were going to do. In fact, 5 there were only two paragraphs, one that said they had to 6 have an audit and one that they had to have books. And 7 another one that said the treasurer and the secretary had to 8 sign the checks. That was pretty much it. So, there was not 9 enough guidance, so they now have a -- an association which 10 they started, and they have a representative from O.R.C.A. 11 who goes around to the ESD's to make sure they're in 12 compliance with all the regulations. A lot has changed since 13 these were created in 1992 -- '94. Again, most of the 14 auditors who are C.P.A.'s -- and I have put it out on my 15 Listserv which the county auditors have throughout the state 16 of Texas. I have called the State Board of Public 17 Accountancy, and -- and the answer that I received is that I 18 cannot do them. And the other alternative is for me to rule 19 the format in a lesser format, which is what I've done. I 20 need approval from the Court so that the auditor is 21 comfortable that he doesn't have to do a full-blown audit. 22 Otherwise, he will have to do a full-blown audit, which will 23 cause the fees to go up. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move for approval. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10-13-08 72 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's get this put behind us. 2 This has all been blown out of proportion for the last eight 3 months. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, let me to get to -- 7 what was the agenda item? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item is to -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That the ESD Number 1 and ESD Number 11 2 prepare financial statements using the compilation format 12 and issue a compilation report to be issued by an independent 13 certified public accountant, and adopt that as an actual rule 14 for the ESD's. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're requiring them to 16 go out and spend -- spend money to get it into this form. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To comply with the law, and 18 also to comply with our auditor's license. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex, the issue that -- this 20 document that we're looking at, Lady Oprah or whatever this 21 thing is, (Laughter.) -- is that -- is that something that my 22 state representative and my senators voted on? Or is this 23 some rule -- 24 MR. EMERSON: I think it's guidelines, is what it 25 is. 10-13-08 73 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Guidelines that came from? 2 MR. EMERSON: The Office of Rural Community 3 Affairs. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, my -- my 5 representative didn't vote on that, so far as I'm concerned, 6 you can throw it in the trash. Okay, I know where I'm at. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 8 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 14 Item 17; consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 15 policy and procedures for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 16 Commissioner Oehler? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Judge, I believe you 18 were going to add some wording into our last -- what -- in 19 addition to what we came up with in our last meeting. Is 20 that not correct? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It looks like you have done 23 that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks pretty good to me. 10-13-08 74 1 JUDGE TINLEY: With a couple of examples so that 2 folks that don't regularly practice law can understand what 3 it means, Buster. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one question. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is the issue of -- of 7 a group coupling themselves with a nonprofit? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what we -- that's what we 9 did. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is that? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: It's at the bottom of Page 2 in the 12 highlighted area. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, it says if an event 14 has more than one sponsor, facility rental shall be 15 determined by a calculation based upon the status of each 16 sponsor and percentage of benefits to be received by each 17 sponsor from the event. You can tell that was written by an 18 attorney. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any comment 20 about that, Jon. It's my nice -- this is my nice guy day. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It looks good to me. I'll make 22 a motion we approve the amended language. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 10-13-08 75 1 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think 18 is probably going to need 6 to go to executive; we'll defer on that. And let's go to 7 Section 4, payment of the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 11 bills. Question or discussion? How come we're back to the 12 old format? 13 MS. HARGIS: Because of the end of the year, we 14 couldn't get the report to pull. I wasn't here, but I did 15 try this morning, and what it does is, because we back-dated 16 some things and forward-dated others, we can get a report 17 with part of them, but we can't get them with all of them. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. We're taking all these 19 encumbrances into account, then? 20 MS. HARGIS: Some of the encumbrances, and you have 21 payables that are still coming in that are dated in 22 September, and those will continue until the next meeting. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is today the end of the 25 encumbrances? 10-13-08 76 1 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. Depends upon -- if the bill 2 is dated in September, as long as it's dated in September, 3 the auditors will backdate it and put it on, regardless of 4 whether we do or not. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: So, we have given -- we sent out a 7 memo and asked everyone to have by Monday -- next Monday, all 8 of their bills for September so that we can get those done 9 and finished. We shouldn't have very much. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff wants to be the 11 exception to the rule. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're right, because we won't 13 get half of our old bills by next Monday. They just won't -- 14 I got some, you know, today that were dated in August, 15 medical bills for inmates. You're talking two months behind 16 on a lot of that billing. You know, I -- it's not going to 17 happen. We're going to have a lot of bills come in past next 18 Monday. Normally, each year we get more time than this 19 before the cutoff, and I'm just -- I don't want it coming out 20 of this year's budget. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought the law -- there 22 was a law that says you can only go so far into the new year 23 to encumber last year's stuff. 24 MS. HARGIS: I think it gives you 90 days, 25 actually, to -- 10-13-08 77 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: -- to encumber, and then you really 3 need to state what the encumbrance is and have it in my 4 office so that we know that's coming so we can figure it up, 5 'cause the audit will start probably in late November. Rusty 6 and I haven't talked about this particular issue, so -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you give her a good idea what 8 those late encumbrances are? A ballpark idea of what they're 9 going to be? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd have no idea in the world. 11 I just -- I don't have it. Because when we take inmates -- 12 you know, before October 1, we take the inmates to the 13 hospital and that, or to a doctor visit, we don't know what 14 that encumbrance is going to be until we get that bill. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We may not get that bill for 17 two months. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. But you can give her 19 the information that there's going to be an encumbrance to 20 the hospital and doctors A, B, and C as a result of an inmate 21 that was treated in September, can't you? Without knowing 22 the amount? 23 MS. HARGIS: I really just need a ballpark 24 estimate, if it's going to be $20,000 or $30,000. We can 25 look back at what our average has been for a couple of months 10-13-08 78 1 and do that. I'd rather -- and we can make -- actually make 2 it a little higher rather than lower, okay? We can work it 3 out. That's not a problem. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because if they went to the 6 hospital, they can add on 30 doctors. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. I just -- we don't have 8 any way of knowing until we get them. 9 MS. HARGIS: But we can come up with an average 10 estimate over the last -- we can use a large month and see 11 what it is. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty would know if it's 13 anything extraordinary in that group. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Anything extraordinary, yes, I 15 would know. But a lot of the normal -- I mean, we get -- you 16 know, back then, you're taking up to 10 inmates a day to 17 doctors' offices and -- and appointments and that. I just 18 don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you running an old folks home 21 out there? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's pretty close. It's 23 called -- it's called -- unfortunately, the way state law's 24 done, it's free, so they get everything. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like we're doing some -- 10-13-08 79 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the inmates, not us. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- leg or bone, or some kind 3 of -- Dr. Allen's on here, so he -- you know, orthopedics; 4 we're probably doing some knee surgeries out there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Brain surgery. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion on 8 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Any budget 14 amendments? 15 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 17 MS. HARGIS: No. We're going to do all the budget 18 amendments at the next meeting. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been presented with 20 monthly reports from Constable, Precinct 1; Constable, 21 Precinct 4; County Clerk; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; 22 District Clerk; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; Justice of 23 the Peace, Precinct 1; Environmental Health; and Justice of 24 the Peace, Precinct 2. Do I hear a motion that those reports 25 be approved as presented? 10-13-08 80 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the reports as presented. Question or discussion 5 on the motion? All in favor of the motion signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. Let's 11 go to Section 5, reports from Commissioners in connection 12 with their liaison or committee designations. Commissioner 13 Baldwin? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I don't have 15 anything, thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any reports from elected 23 officials or department heads? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Just -- who are our 10-13-08 81 1 liaisons this year? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't know. Why are you 3 asking us? (Laughter.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: It's designated by Commissioners 5 Court order, which is a matter of public record, and I would 6 encourage you to go look that up, Sheriff. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't do it till January. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: January, okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm still yours. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I thought you did it with the 11 budget. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, January. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're the same as they have 14 been. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I want you for mine. 16 We're going to get you educated. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. I have my canoe loaded, 18 if you don't mind. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I sure don't need to sink 21 taking you on. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports? Okay. At this 23 time, we'll go out of open or public session at 10:40 to go 24 into executive session. 25 / 10-13-08 82 1 (The open session was closed at 10:40 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 2 is contained in a separate document.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We are now in public or open 5 session. It's 10:56. First off, does any member of the 6 Court have anything to offer with regard to matters taken up 7 in executive session? Hearing none, let's go back, if we 8 might, to Item 11; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 9 to accept the final revision of plat for Lots 11 and 12 of 10 Four Seasons Addition, as set forth in Volume 5, Page 12, 11 Plat Records, and located in Precinct 1. Commissioner Letz, 12 you wanted to return to that item? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Under our rules, if you 14 have a community water system and on-site septic outside a 15 high-density area, the minimum lot size is 1 acre. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And within a high-density area, 18 it's also a minimum lot size of 1 acre. I'm not sure how it 19 falls outside the high-density area, but either way, we do 20 have a 1 acre minimum, so I think we should go back and do a 21 variance to allow this Lots 11 -- 11A? 11A to be -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was it point -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Point -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: .9 something. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: .92-something, I believe. 10-13-08 83 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: .94, .92 or something. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I know it's increased. 3 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: .959, 11A. So, Lot 11A needs a 5 variance to be .959 acres. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I agree. I move to ask 7 for that variance. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for a 10 variance in connection with the approval of plat for Lots 11 11 and 12 of Four Seasons Addition. Question or discussion on 12 that motion? All in favor of that motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. You want to 18 revisit Item 6? 19 MR. EMERSON: Just to answer Commissioner Letz' 20 question. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 6 is the bids for the 22 courthouse windows. 23 MR. EMERSON: Commissioner Letz, you'd asked a 24 question about the awarding of contracts, and under Local 25 Government Code 262.027, Awarding of Contract, the Court's 10-13-08 84 1 only two options are to either, under Subsection (1), award 2 the contract to the responsible bidder who submits the lowest 3 and best bid, or Option 2, reject all bids and publish a new 4 notice. So, we don't have a negotiation option in there that 5 we do under some of the other technical contracts. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we -- and that also -- that 7 would mean that if we -- okay. That answers my question. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, wait a minute. Wait a 9 minute. The lowest and best bid based on the specifications. 10 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, the question is, does 12 the lowest bid meet the specifications, and are we qualified 13 to make that judgment? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that part still goes, but 16 my question is, say we -- we're precluded from going to 17 bronze tint from gray tint, you know, if we go with a tint 18 choice. That was one I remembered. It says gray tint. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It didn't talk about bronze 21 tint. We can't put a bronze tint -- we can't change the 22 color of the clad from, you know, bronze with a slight 23 variation in it -- I mean, that's -- you know, that's my 24 concern, is that these bids are not -- we have to look very 25 -- even more carefully as to what we've asked for under the 10-13-08 85 1 specifications, because we can't change it once we start. 2 That's my concern. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the -- the specs did 4 call for gray? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've no idea. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, see, that's the point. 7 Judge is saying no. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the whole point right 10 there. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What they called for is for the -- 12 the exterior to match the existing appearance. May have said 13 "color and appearance"; I don't recall. But -- here they 14 are. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There were two of them that 16 said the word "gray." 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Match design/appearance of existing 18 windows. Exterior lower, no maintenance, metal clad, color 19 to match or be closely similar to existing color. It's 20 probably impossible to get the exact color, unless you just 21 happen to get real, real lucky that on the eight different 22 colors that they may have in their repertoire, one of them is 23 right on the money. You just pick the one that's closest. 24 The color option, I think, is going to be the same if you 25 pick Color 1 or 6 or 8 or -- the price, I'm talking about, is 10-13-08 86 1 going to be the same, so I don't see that as a difficulty. 2 If they've quoted Color 4 and you want Color 6, for example, 3 at the same price. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's the way they're submitted. 6 MR. EMERSON: To play devil's advocate, how do you 7 know it's the same price? Because if you award to Bidder A, 8 then you come back and you change the color, inevitably, 9 Bidder B is going to go, "Oh, that would have been cheaper if 10 I'd known that." 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But our specifications are 12 pretty vague. And -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why I think we -- 14 MR. EMERSON: As long as we can live within the 15 specifications, we're good to go. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's why we need to 18 -- I don't know how we go -- maybe next meeting, we're going 19 to have to approve the Judge and, say, some other person to 20 review those bids and come back with a recommendation. Would 21 that be in order? Because the way we've done it this time, 22 we accepted them and we're holding them, but I'm not 23 comfortable with -- with us awarding those until it has been 24 -- they have been reviewed by a professional, and maybe the 25 Judge. 10-13-08 87 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And Tim. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. That needs to be on 3 the next agenda for -- to appoint somebody to review those, 4 and then come back with a -- with a recommendation for the 5 Court, whether we accept one of them -- or award it, or 6 whether we reject all and go out again. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With defined specifications. 9 MR. EMERSON: And having formerly been in the 10 construction materials industry, I can tell you there's 11 significant differences in the way things are manufactured. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- based on reading the 14 specs, I think price is going to be not a consideration on 15 the three bids. I mean, I think -- you know, I really think 16 we have to do what he said, get someone to look at the 17 quality they're talking about by what they previously 18 presented to us, and then make a decision based on what is 19 going to, we think, match most closely, and I don't think 20 price is going to be the number-one concern. I mean, if 21 they're all equal, obviously, it is, but they're not all 22 equal, 'cause they're coming from different manufacturers. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're going to have 24 different materials involved in each one of those bids, the 25 materials that are within those windows. 10-13-08 88 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- what you want to do is even 4 more important. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to do that, 6 and we'll put on it the next agenda to do that, if that works 7 with our -- from our County Attorney standpoint. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the language of 9 replacing the doors? We're talking about three different 10 doors. What is that about? Does anybody know for sure? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expensive. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Expensive. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we talking about 14 replacing this door out here? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, the front door. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Our office door that we just 17 replaced? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But the problem is with 19 everything that's around it, primarily. It's -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the old Sheriff's 21 door at the other end down there? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what about these 24 two front doors? Replace those two front doors? 25 (Judge Tinley nodded.) 10-13-08 89 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we going to do with 2 those old front doors? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If we replace them? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's the kind of 5 thing that the hysterical crowd really gets hysterical about, 6 is when you start dealing with things like those doors. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's the reason that the 8 specs were required to match that appearance. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in addition -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Either replace or -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Refurbish. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- renovate and make more energy 13 efficient. One of the big things is, we got a crack in there 14 about that wide. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bigger than that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on what time of year 18 it is. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: In winter, it blows right on through 20 there; you can feel it down in the -- down at the County 21 Court at Law. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In a drought, the gaps get 23 wider, and in a wet year, they get narrower. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can whoever does the agenda 25 item make it broad enough that we can pull in some other 10-13-08 90 1 people? Such as possibly Steve Huser, who knows the quality 2 of materials well, or someone like that, along with 3 architectural -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just want to be sure that 5 we spend the money correctly this time, and we get what we 6 really want and not have to go through this again in five 7 years. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or ten. I mean, this needs 10 to be a one-time fix. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't -- I don't want to see us in 12 a position of having windows in the annex, which was just 13 done in what, '99? And we've got wood exterior windows that 14 now need maintenance. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Replaced. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Not replacing, but you're -- I don't 17 know how much staging it's going to take. Or -- or I suspect 18 we'll probably be better off to acquire a lift. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good idea. 21 Hanging on a rope off there is not a good idea. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't recommend that we use jail 23 trustees -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- hanging on a rope? 10-13-08 91 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not going to do that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, gentlemen. Have we got 3 anything else? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Our H.R. Director. Yes, ma'am? 6 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry, y'all missed me. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: This is a report of a department 8 head? 9 MS. HYDE: Just real quick. This is a real quick 10 one; this is less than two minutes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not in a hurry now. 12 MS. HYDE: We've hired all the open positions 13 during the last four weeks that y'all asked or have been 14 requested. Animal Control will be hired this week to start 15 November 1. The Collections office now is fully staffed. 16 The Auditor's office has chosen their person, but they will 17 not start until January 1. We have one opening still in Road 18 and Bridge, and we have hired the Indigent Care, which will 19 start Monday. We have two positions still open at the S.O., 20 a deputy position and a jailer position at this time, but 21 that's it. So, those are all done. I think we got some 22 pretty good candidates. The only one I'm concerned a little 23 bit with is -- is -- we'll see. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll see? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let the record reflect she was 10-13-08 92 1 pointing at me; therefore, my longevity with this 2 organization may be in jeopardy. 3 MS. HYDE: No, sir. No, sir. The -- the RFP's for 4 the health insurance, just so that you know -- I know a lot 5 of folks figured we'd have lots and lots. We had two. So, 6 just so that you understand why, this is first year. 7 Normally, the incumbent wins. People knew what we were 8 looking at, and they watched the stringency last year, and so 9 don't take offense that we didn't get lots of bids. And the 10 bids that we've got are good ones, so -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The ones that wouldn't otherwise be 12 competitive just didn't bother to bid this time? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. They'll look at us 14 on year three. Typically, you'll go in three-year cycles. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The individual chosen for the 16 Indigent Health Care spot is -- I can tell you, is a good 17 tight-fisted German from the eastern part of the county. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And will get -- and will -- has 20 no problem getting in their face if there's a problem. She 21 gets in mine. She lives on Lane Valley. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that. 23 MS. HYDE: And also believes that -- also believes 24 that the County's money is her money. She also believes that 25 the County's money is her money. 10-13-08 93 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She -- yeah, definitely. 2 She'll be good. She's -- I mean, it's a -- personality-wise, 3 she's a perfect match for that job. I think she'll do a real 4 good job. And I didn't know -- actually, I didn't know what 5 Dawn did previously, but she's qualified. 6 MS. HYDE: We've contacted her, and -- and she was 7 not in the finals, and so there was a little bit of 8 discussion about putting her in the final. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's a personality -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that person have a 11 name? 12 MS. HYDE: Dawn Lantz, L-a-n-t-z. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Her husband's on the school 14 board in Comfort, works for Hill Country Co-Op. 15 MS. HYDE: And I apologize for taking up y'all's 16 time. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We are adjourned. 18 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:11 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-13-08 94 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 15th day of October, 8 2008. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-13-08