1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, October 27, 2008 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X October 27, 2008 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request by HCADRC to review contract with Kerr 5 County to provide mediation services in Kerr County and for funding 8 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request for property tax exemption for 7 Kerrville Masonic Lodge #697, Kerrville, and Rising Star Lodge #429, Center Point 11 8 1.3 Presentation from Pam Warner regarding "The Big Fix Homeless Cat Project." Consider/discuss, 9 take appropriate action regarding endorsement of trap/neuter/return to manage homeless cat 10 overpopulation in Kerr County; initiate review of animal control ordinance to support same......... 13 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize County Auditor to prepare annual 12 audits for ESD #1 and ESD #2 pursuant to Health and Safety Code Section 775.082.............. 41 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve Central Counting Station personnel 14 pursuant to Chapter 27 TEC.......................... 52 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 15 regarding update on 2008 tax statements............. 53 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 acknowledge receipt of quarterly investment report from Patterson and Associates for 17 quarter ending 9-30-08.............................. 56 1.8 Consider/discuss, adopt 2008-2009 Kerr County 18 Community Plan for submission to Alamo Area Council of Governments.............................. 57 19 1.9 Consider/discuss update on personnel policy and procedure manual by Human Resources Dept........ 59 20 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve or disapprove a Kerr Central Appraisal 21 District budget amendment to add to building reserve account for costs related to potential 22 building, renovation, or other modifications deemed necessary, such account to be funded with 23 surplus funds left over from Appraisal District's 2007 operating budget............................... 71 24 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve revised proposal for engineering services 25 from L. Wayne Wells, P.E. .......................... 73 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) October 27, 2008 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 authorize issuance of a Request for Proposals for mass notification services; advertise same 4 as required......................................... 76 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 grant a variance to Kerr County Flood Prevention Order for a home in Westwood Oaks, Pct. 4........... 85 6 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from National Wild Turkey Federation to 7 be added to the nonprofit list for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center................................ 88 8 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to abandon, vacate, and discontinue 21.20 acre 9 portion of land from recorded plat of Comanche Caves Ranch, Pct. 4; set public hearing for 10 Monday, December 8, 2008 at 10 a.m.................. 90 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 approve bond for Leonard Odom, Jr................... 94 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve contracts with Kerr Economic Development Foundation, Big Brothers and Sisters, Comfort VFD, 13 Elm Pass VFD, Turtle Creek VFD, Center Point VFD, & Castle Lake VFD; allow County Judge to sign same.... 95 14 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to honor request from Texas Association for Home 15 Care to declare November 2008, as Home Care and Hospice Month in Kerr County........................ 96 16 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from Mr. Jerry Elzner to adopt a 17 resolution proclaiming October as Czech Heritage Month in Kerr County....................... 96 18 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to collect mental health court costs from Maverick 19 County.............................................. 97 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 pursue environmental health enforcement on property located at 170 Center Point River 21 Road East.......................................... 100 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 22 proposed site plan for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and surrounding property............ 106 23 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to rescind Court Order #30940 giving notice to the 24 City of Kerrville for the cancellation of our interlocal cooperation agreement for regulation 25 of subdivisions within the city of Kerrville's extraterritorial jurisdiction (ETJ)................ 137 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) October 27, 2008 2 PAGE 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 giving notice to City of Kerrville on cancellation of the ETJ agreement.................. 137 4 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding correcting one employee in the 5 position schedule and their annual payroll for FY 08-09 ...................................... 139 6 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to rescind Court Order #31049 which approved the 7 rules regarding format of ESD #1 and ESD #2 audits and reports................................. 140 8 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to designate a committee to review and evaluate 9 courthouse windows bids or proposals and make recommendations to Commissioners' Court............ 140 10 4.1 Pay Bills 142 11 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 4.3 Late Bills 150 12 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 157 13 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 157 14 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 162 15 --- Adjourned 165 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, October 27, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, October the 27th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It 11 is that time now. Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Would you rise 13 for a word of prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 18 of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard on any 19 matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come 20 forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. If you 21 wish to be heard on an agenda item, there are some 22 participation forms at the back of the room. We'd ask that 23 you fill one of those out and get it up here to us. Primary 24 purpose of that is to make sure that I won't miss you when 25 that item comes up, and make sure that you get the 10-27-08 6 1 opportunity to be heard. If you happen not to fill out a 2 participation form, but we get to an agenda item that you 3 want to be heard on, get my attention in some manner, and 4 I'll see that you have that opportunity to be heard on that 5 item. But right now, if there's any member of the audience 6 here or the public that wishes to be heard on any matter that 7 is not a listed agenda item, come forward at this time and 8 tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one coming forward, 9 we'll move on. Commissioner Baldwin, do you have anything 10 for us this morning? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I do not. Thank you 12 for asking. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir, not yet. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just two little items. One, I 17 thought it was interesting -- I won't editorialize what I 18 think about it, but I thought it was interesting, the 19 candidate forum League of Women Voters had the other day. 20 There were nine different people that were in contested races 21 that spoke, and some of them were district wide; they weren't 22 all local. Out of the nine that spoke, six were not from 23 Texas. They moved here for one reason or another. I thought 24 that was rather interesting. And the other thing, how about 25 those Longhorns? 10-27-08 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about that? 2 (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about Tech? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a little messy out 6 there on that field for a while. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right; they came 8 out. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Is that it, 10 Commissioner? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have to report that 14 we have lost the governor of Hunt. We lost the mayor here a 15 while back. The governor, who is Owen Crenshaw, passed away 16 Saturday, and there will be services for him at Grimes at 17 2 o'clock on Thursday. So, anyway, I just wanted to pass 18 that on, but have his family and all in our prayers and our 19 thoughts. And he did a lot of things for a lot of people, 20 and especially participated in the Hunt Fire Department and 21 the Hunt group, and cooking barbecue for almost every 22 organization under the sun, and he will be missed. So, with 23 that, that's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. As most of you 25 know, the Kerr County Fair was this past weekend, a three-day 10-27-08 8 1 event Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And far as I know, 2 everything went off well, and appreciate everybody's 3 participation in that event. I think -- I think it was well 4 received, and hopefully we'll be able to continue that event 5 on an annual basis. Let's get on with our agenda, if we 6 might. We have a 9 o'clock item; it's a bit past that, but 7 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on request by 8 the Hill Country Alternate Dispute Resolution Center to 9 review contract with Kerr County and provide mediation 10 services in Kerr County, and for funding. Mr. Ed Reaves. 11 Good morning, sir. 12 MR. REAVES: Good morning, Your Honor, 13 Commissioners. Once a year we come to ask you to renew our 14 contract to provide mediation services. As you know, every 15 time a lawsuit is filed, there's a little bit that goes into 16 an A.D.R. fund that helps to make mediation affordable for 17 everybody in Kerr County. Overall, in 2007, we did 149 18 cases. This year, we're averaging about almost 14, so we're 19 looking at about 165 cases this year. Last year we were very 20 fortunate to have a settlement rate of some 88 percent, which 21 was -- actually, almost 87 percent, which was up from the 22 year before. And that's due to fantastic volunteers we have. 23 We have such a rich resource in particularly retired talent 24 here in Kerr County who generously provide their time for us. 25 There was $15,000 budgeted for A.D.R. for the renewal of our 10-27-08 9 1 contract, and as of last week, there was over 18,000 in the 2 account. So, are there -- are there any questions, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one, Ed. 4 MR. REAVES: Yes, sir? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you know I'm a huge fan 6 of your program. 7 MR. REAVES: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: However, asking for 9 funding -- the budget's already one month old. Are you 10 kidding me? 11 MR. REAVES: Oh. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm joking. I'm assuming 13 that we roll the money over and -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that is a dedicated account by 16 virtue of courts costs, payments that are made, something 17 that we've adopted that goes in there, and by law it 18 accumulates in a segregated fund for which it can be used for 19 that purpose. Have you reviewed the contract, Mr. Emerson? 20 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's in order? It's essentially 22 a rollover contract we've approved in previous years? 23 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll move for approval. 10-27-08 10 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 4 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Reaves, we appreciate your work. 10 MR. REAVES: Thank you, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: This settlement rate, I think, is 12 pretty much in line with national and state averages, and 13 essentially what that says is that out of ten cases that are 14 filed, only one of those ten approximately ends up having to 15 be heard by the courts. And as most of us know, our courts 16 are pretty well jammed up; they're jammed up everywhere. So, 17 it's a wonderful service. Plus, when -- when the parties 18 themselves to an action can fabricate their own resolution, 19 they tend to be a little bit happier with the outcome than 20 sometimes what judges handle. I've had the personal 21 experience of -- of doing that, and having neither side very 22 happy about what I did, so I know from experience that it's 23 better if the parties themselves can do their own -- do their 24 own resolution. 25 MR. REAVES: Thank you so much, Your Honor. 10-27-08 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate your 2 work. Let's move then to Item 2, another item for 9 o'clock 3 time frame. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request for property tax exemption for Kerrville Masonic 5 Lodge Number 697 in Kerrville, and Rising Star Lodge Number 6 429 in Center Point. Mr. Gene Allen. 7 MR. ALLEN: Your Honor, Commissioners, good 8 morning. And as a rebuttal to Commissioner Letz, how about 9 those Red Raiders? (Laughter.) We'll see next Saturday. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right, we'll see. Wish 11 it was in Austin. 12 MR. ALLEN: Absolutely. Judge, I appreciate the 13 opportunity to stand before Commissioners Court this morning. 14 I'm here representing Kerrville Masonic Lodge 697 and Center 15 Point's Rising Star Masonic Lodge 429. I apologize for not 16 being here last week and -- or week before last and being on 17 the agenda when the Elks Lodge came before you. I was out of 18 town and couldn't be here. So, in turn, I'm here taking up 19 your time, and I'll try to make it very minimal this morning. 20 As you stated, I'm here requesting consideration for tax 21 exemption for both lodges, the only two lodges in the county. 22 It's the only other two fraternal organizations that the 23 Comptroller's office has determined that they're eligible for 24 this exemption besides the Elks Lodge. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Are you 10-27-08 12 1 finished? 2 MR. ALLEN: Yes, sir. Questions? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Elks made the point 4 repeatedly about their outreach and the things they do in the 5 community with respect to helping others, not the least of 6 which was scholarships to youth -- deserving youth. Tell me 7 about the Masonic Lodge. 8 MR. ALLEN: The Masonic Lodge is very similar with 9 -- with the Elks Lodge in what we do for the community, 10 scholarships, help with the needy and so forth. And vet -- 11 and more -- more so the veterans as well. The Masonic Lodge, 12 worldwide -- not locally, but worldwide; don't want that 13 misinterpreted, but worldwide, Masonic Lodge and its 14 dependent bodies contribute back to society about $1.5 15 million a day, and that's -- that's a significant amount of 16 money going back to the communities worldwide. Scholarships 17 is probably one of the big things on our list that we -- we 18 work very hard in trying to make happen. Our only support is 19 -- is through charitable contributions to us, fundraisers, 20 and what little dues that we do receive from our members, and 21 those dues are very, very minimal. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- third. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10-27-08 13 1 approval as indicated. Any question or further discussion on 2 this motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 8 for being here, Mr. Allen. 9 MR. ALLEN: Thank you. We appreciate y'all's 10 consideration. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 3; presentation 12 from Pam Warner regarding the Big Fix Homeless Cat project, 13 and consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 14 endorsement of trap/neuter/return to manage homeless cats 15 overpopulation in Kerr County, and initiate a review of the 16 Animal Control ordinance to support trap/neuter and return. 17 Ms. Warner, thank you for being here today. 18 MS. WARNER: Thank you, sir. Good morning. These 19 are some of the slides that's part of the presentation today. 20 I'm afraid you might not be able to read them on the screen, 21 so I'm giving you packets. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Put them all up here; we'll pass 23 them out. 24 MS. WARNER: Thank you. 25 MR. REYNOLDS: Can we turn that screen a little 10-27-08 14 1 bit? We're not trying to eliminate you guys, but we're 2 trying to influence the folk up front. (Laughter.) 3 MS. WARNER: Okay. Good morning, Your Honor, 4 Commissioners. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 6 MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you for giving us some time 7 this morning. I want to begin by thanking Thomas from Bright 8 Eyes Computing; he's helping with the slides today, and he 9 has been invaluable. My name is Dr. Pam Warner. I'm a 10 psychologist and I'm a college counselor, an educator. I 11 retired with my husband to Kerr County -- rural Kerr County 12 about five and a half years ago. I began inquiring about the 13 unserved needs of animals in our county. I'd always wanted 14 to do something for animals. I was lucky enough to retire 15 early, and so I began asking around, and very soon I began to 16 hear from cat lovers and cat haters about the many unwanted 17 and unfixed homeless cats in Kerrville and Kerr County. And 18 here's some of the things they said about those cats. Would 19 you go the next slide please? So, this next 20 minutes or 20 so, we're going to be talking about cats. 21 Now, I know there's a lot of important issues that 22 come before this Court, and you may not give cats a real high 23 priority, and I do understand that. But what I want people 24 to understand is that we've been doing this a few years now, 25 and we have come to believe it's about a lot more than cats. 10-27-08 15 1 It's about unresolved and longstanding disputes in 2 neighborhoods between cat-loving and cat-hating neighbors. 3 It's about neighborhood strife. Janie Roman will be able to 4 tell you more about that. This is about public health, and 5 we'll tell you more about that in a minute. This is about 6 the emotional and financial duress of the poor, the elderly, 7 and the disabled residents of our county who are sometimes 8 denying themselves food and medications so they can feed 9 these cats that they have befriended and that are breeding 10 out of control. This is about taxpayer money, as we're going 11 to share with you in a minute, and this is about the 12 frustrated staff of local rescue groups that try to find 13 space for hundreds of unwanted kittens every spring. And 14 this is about the often thankless job of Kerr County Animal 15 Control that have to patiently field cat complaint calls and 16 intake over 1,000 unwanted cats and kittens every year, and 17 press many of them into the gas chamber. This is about a lot 18 more than cats. This is about community, and this is about 19 people. 20 So, I want to begin by what we're asking for this 21 morning, so that you'll be able to reflect on that throughout 22 the day -- or throughout the morning. The next slide, 23 please. We aren't asking you for money. We aren't asking 24 you for the use of county resources. We are asking you to 25 endorse trap/neuter/return as a reasonably effective strategy 10-27-08 16 1 for managing homeless cat overpopulation in Kerr County, and 2 we're asking you to begin a thoughtful review of the Kerr 3 County Animal Control ordinance and support changes or 4 amendments to that that will encourage ongoing TNR in Kerr 5 County. We know this is your first exposure to this today, 6 and you may not want to take any decisive action. We 7 understand that. But we need to make an introduction, and we 8 hope that -- that some of these issues will resonate for you. 9 Here is our story. Next slide, please. After I heard all 10 these cat concerns, I began researching, and I learned that 11 there are an estimated 73 million of these cats nationwide as 12 of the last census. Another estimate was .5 homeless cats 13 per household, or about 5,000 homeless cats just in Kerrville 14 alone at any given time. Next slide. 15 I came across the website for Alley Cat Allies; I 16 learned that they are a national advocacy organization for 17 homeless cats, and they advocate TNR to control homeless cat 18 overpopulation. Here's their argument. Next slide, please. 19 Homeless cats live near food, water, and shelter sources. 20 They often live in groups or colonies, and they expand from 21 within. These kittens will breed with each other at about 22 the age of six months if they're not fixed. Next slide. One 23 unfixed female cat plus her kittens and their kittens 24 producing kittens can produce 60-plus kittens per year. And, 25 of course, then the numbers just explode from there, with all 10-27-08 17 1 those cats producing cats. The bottom line of this is that 2 these cats breed faster than they can reasonably be killed to 3 control their overpopulation. We can't kill them as fast as 4 they breed. Alley Cat Allies' procedures seem simple enough. 5 Next slide, please. Humanely trapping the cats, spaying and 6 neutering them, giving them rabies shots, ear-tipping them 7 for identification -- I'll show you that in a minute. Then 8 after recovery, returning them where they were trapped and 9 continuing to feed and monitor that colony, and keeping 10 tracking information for later follow-up. That's the 11 procedure, and that is Page 5 in your packets, if you need to 12 read it more closely. 13 These are longstanding Texas university programs, 14 and they're on Page 6 in your packet. University of Texas 15 Campus Cat Coalition -- Cat Coalition in Austin, Aggie Feral 16 Cat Alliance -- for those of you that can't see, Aggie Feral 17 Cat Alliance of Texas, the Feral Cat Rescue from University 18 of North Texas. They all began in the 1990's, and they have 19 seen a reduction in the number of homeless cats hanging 20 around their campuses. Next slide, please. This is a short 21 list of TNR programs in Texas cities and counties. San 22 Antonio, Fredericksburg, Blanco County, Brazos County, 23 Bandera County, Austin, Dallas, Houston, and there's many 24 more. This is just a short list of them, the most -- the 25 most familiar ones around the region. Next slide. And this 10-27-08 18 1 is a short list of the ones that are national. Next slide. 2 Reportedly, these national animal advocacy 3 organizations endorse TNR, and this is Number 9 of your 4 packet. American Veterninary Medicine Association, Humane 5 Society of the United States, American Humane Association, 6 American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and 7 the Cat Fancier's Association. So, I did all this research. 8 Well, that was enough for me. Next slide. I started the Big 9 Fix Homeless Cat project of the Texas Hill Country in 2005. 10 Our mission -- next slide -- was to utilize trap/neuter and 11 return to stabilize and reduce the numbers of homeless cats 12 in Kerr County by stopping their breeding. We are the first 13 and only organization of our kind in the county. Next slide. 14 Here's our growth and development over the last three and a 15 half years. We have a telephone help line, and we normally 16 receive 20 to 30 calls per week, and we are still receiving 17 that after three years of people in the community wanting our 18 help. These -- and these are the vet clinics that work with 19 us. 20 Our team of volunteers is growing, and we have 21 experienced gratifying revenue increases. Next slide. 22 $1,000 in 2005, $6,400 in 2006, $17,700 in community -- in 23 revenues mostly from community donations in 2007. Our 24 fundraisers account for about $3,000 dollars per year of the 25 total revenues. The rest come from donations -- community 10-27-08 19 1 donations of $100 or less. We are truly a grass roots 2 movement. In addition, -- next slide -- in 2008, we have 3 received five foundation grants totaling $14,100, and two of 4 those grants came from locally based foundations -- 5 foundation boards who decided to take a chance to try TNR 6 because they were concerned about all of this. So, this is 7 what we expect our revenues to look like in 2008. With the 8 tough economic times, it probably won't be quite that high. 9 I made the slide before the stock market crashed. But -- but 10 it's still going to be above what -- everybody is revisiting 11 their economic information these days -- above what it was 12 last year. Okay. Next slide, please. 13 Despite these gifts of generosity, which we deeply 14 appreciate, we generally keep a low bank balance in our bank 15 account, because 99 percent of all of our revenues go 16 continuously to the vets for spay and neuters. This dramatic 17 surge in community support indicates to us a lot of people 18 want a real solution to this homeless cat problem. And next 19 we want to give you a little information on how and why TNR 20 works, and this is very important. TNR is a management, and 21 not an eradication, because trapping and killing doesn't work 22 to reduce numbers. Trapping and killing doesn't work to 23 reduce numbers, despite the fact that it's what has been done 24 all over the country for years to try to reduce the 25 73 million cats that are in -- that are national now. Our 10-27-08 20 1 project is supportive of Kerr County Animal Control. Janie 2 Roman and her team have a very hard job and they work hard at 3 it, and they're to be commended, and we want to work with 4 them. Okay, next slide. 5 However, through the practice of trapping and 6 killing, and through no fault of theirs, they have had to 7 destroy 1,200 to 1,400 unwanted cats per year at our little 8 county facility. That's a high number for our population. 9 If this eradication strategy were working, and they're doing 10 this year after year, shouldn't this number be going down? 11 Here's why it isn't. Okay, next slide. And this, if you 12 can't see, is Page 12 of your packet. Here is a homeless cat 13 colony occupying a territory on the left-hand side. All the 14 cats there are unfixed and they're breeding. On the right is 15 that territory after trap and kill. The number of cats is 16 significantly less, but the cats in surrounding areas are 17 beginning to take notice and they're starting to move in. On 18 the bottom is the colony occupying the territory after two 19 breeding seasons. More cats have moved in. They've bred 20 with the cats that were left. All the cats are unfixed and 21 breeding. We're really back where we started. That's why 22 the arrow goes back to the beginning, trapping and killing 23 over and over again to try to control the overpopulation. 24 So, the illusion is that the -- the problem was addressed 25 right after trapping and killing. Well, the numbers 10-27-08 21 1 initially go down, but all this does is open up territory. 2 Next slide. 3 This is called the vacuum effect, and it's well 4 documented. Next slide. Trapping and killing wastes 5 taxpayer money, because breeding cats fill right back in. 6 That's why there's 1,200 to 1,400 cats going down every year 7 at Kerr County Animal Control. They are not draining the 8 swamp. Okay, next slide. Here's why TNR works. You start 9 with a homeless cat colony on the left. All the cats are 10 unfixed and breeding. On the right-hand side, then, the 11 smiley faces signify the cats that were trapped, fixed, and 12 returned. And then -- they're not always smiling, but... 13 (Laughter.) And then -- and then down at the bottom there on 14 the right is that same colony after two breeding seasons. 15 The same cats, but they're not breeding. The numbers of that 16 colony have stabilized. And then we go to TNR maintenance. 17 As those numbers decline through natural attrition, there 18 will be other cats coming in, and then we have to catch them, 19 fix them, and return them. Considerably cheaper labor and 20 money than trapping and killing over and over again. The 21 number of cats in this colony on the right and the bottom, 22 they're now stable. Next slide. 23 The benefits of a stabilized homeless cat 24 population are many. And, again, this is Number 14 in your 25 packet. Fewer cats breeding nuisance behaviors that upset 10-27-08 22 1 neighborhoods, fewer unwanted litters of kittens, fewer cat 2 complaint calls to Animal Control, less financial struggle 3 for people trying to take care of them, natural pest control 4 without the breeding. The cats take care of snakes, 5 scorpions, roaches, spiders, bugs, all kinds of natural pest 6 control, and better and easier rabies control. Next slide. 7 This one is hard to read. Public health officials support 8 TNR; it's Page 15 in your packet. I only want to read one of 9 these for the audience, and this is from Atlantic City, New 10 Jersey. Ron Cash, Director of Health, Atlantic City 11 Boardwalk. There's a large homeless cat population there. 12 "We serve" -- Mr. Cash says, "We serve a population of 13 approximately 35 million people who visit our community every 14 year, and I need to operate a safe city for tourists of 15 Atlantic City. When we went shopping for a solution to the 16 feral cat concerns in our community, we found TNR, and TNR 17 works." 18 What about money spent on TNR? Next slide, please. 19 San Diego County saved $859,221 after TNR implementation. 20 Orange County, Florida saved $109,000. This was over a 21 several-year period, because they are not trapping and 22 killing over and over again, with the associated cost of 23 impounding and destroying these unwanted cats. TNR stops the 24 breeding. The fixed cats hold the territory, keeping unfixed 25 cats out, and countering the vacuum effect. Next slide. 10-27-08 23 1 Now, as a result of these documented savings, some places 2 have implemented animal control ordinances that -- and one 3 state law, the whole state of Illinois, that endorse and 4 promote TNR over trap and kill. So, what about Kerrville? 5 Next slide. Well, we've performed TNR on about 2,000 cats in 6 Kerrville in almost 200 colonies over the last three and a 7 half years. We have kept tracking data, and recently 8 completed a telephone survey of 20 of those colonies. 9 98 percent of them had no new kittens born in them. The 10 colonies' sizes had stabilized. This was work we did about a 11 year and a half ago, okay? So, these are little spots, 12 mostly around Kerrville, where homeless cats are not breeding 13 out of control for the first time probably ever. Our goal is 14 to greatly curtail the kitten production in Kerrville in six 15 to eight years by doing about 600 cats per year. 16 We want to curtail kitten production in Ingram, 17 Center Point, and Kerrville in about ten years, and certain 18 spots in outlying regions in Kerr County. We will never 19 stabilize the entire homeless cat population in Kerr County, 20 but we can stabilize territories where people live, which 21 will make it safer for the people and -- and easier on the 22 animals. So, what does the continual collecting and killing 23 in Kerr County of these 1,200 to 1,400 homeless cats cost 24 taxpayers every year? I haven't been able to get an accurate 25 figure on what it actually costs per cat, but I have found a 10-27-08 24 1 figure of $176 to impound and destroy one homeless pet 2 through the Texas shelter system. The entire state averages 3 that. Next slide. So, even if the cost in Kerr County was a 4 very low $50 per cat, just a 10 percent reduction in those 5 numbers of cats that they would have to kill out there would 6 result in $7,000 in savings annually. Diligent application 7 of trap/neuter and return can produce this reduction. We 8 have every reason to believe that, because our colonies are 9 stabilized and we see the national data, and it's free. It's 10 free to the county. The bottom line financial return -- next 11 slide -- is pure profit for Kerrville and Kerr County 12 taxpayers. 13 Cat lovers and cat haters both must keep in mind 14 that having zero homeless cats in Kerrville and Kerr County 15 is not an attainable outcome of any problem-solving strategy. 16 They're breeding like crazy in the countryside. They're 17 breeding like crazy in Bandera County and in Gillespie 18 County, and there will be always be cats in Kerrville and 19 Kerr County. We have a wonderful habitat for them here; the 20 river, the large storm drains, our beautiful green areas. 21 However, in certain territories, we can stabilize numbers. 22 Next slide. We can achieve the every homeless cat is 23 ear-tipped solution in some of these areas. You can see the 24 ear-tip on the left-hand ear of that cat, and a little bit of 25 ear is cut off for identification. Next slide. Here are the 10-27-08 25 1 characteristics of ear-tipped cats. They're spayed/neutered, 2 they have rabies shots, they're usually being fed and 3 monitored, providing natural pest control, and countering the 4 vacuum effect, which is probably the most important point up 5 there. They're keeping breeding cats away. That's why trap 6 and kill didn't work, because nothing kept the breeding cats 7 away. Cats are very territorial, and they hold their -- they 8 hold their space. Next slide. 9 The success of TNR in Kerr County depends on 10 education about TNR as the best solution for both cat lovers 11 and cat haters. We have nothing against people that love 12 birds; we're trying to help them. And also, all of us 13 working together -- that would be the Kerr County Animal 14 Control, that would be local animal rescue groups, that would 15 be us, and that would be public -- the public, their support, 16 vets that help us, and City and County government, and here's 17 how you in particular can help. Next slide, please. Most 18 communities that have embraced TNR, and there are and more 19 all the time, have found the need to reexamine their animal 20 control ordinances, and here is some of the confusion. Next 21 slide. Homeless cat colonies are made up of unsocialized 22 feral cats and abandoned domestic cats and their kittens; 23 they're all mixed up together. Can you tell which one of 24 these is feral? One of them is. It's not the one walking 25 away. It's the little guy with the white in the middle of 10-27-08 26 1 the pack there. He's unapproachable. Can't catch him, can't 2 touch him, and he'll try to bite you, and he's mixed in with 3 all the other cats. 4 Now, in the case of colonies, these may be stray -- 5 stray homeless domestic cats, some of which might be tame, 6 but it's impossible to tell what is what. Next slide. We 7 all know what a domestic cat is. A feral cat, on the other 8 hand, is a -- this is one definition. A second generation or 9 later offspring from a domestic cat that was abandoned or 10 lost. Feral cats look like domestic cats, but they have more 11 in common with wildlife. They are unsocialized. They've 12 never been touched by people, often. They are unadoptable as 13 domestic pets. Next slide. They occupy a unique niche. 14 They're the only animal thriving in the wild that started in 15 recent history from domestic stock, yet they aren't domestic. 16 One article I have places them in the gray zone. The usual 17 animal control ordinance says someone feeding, and therefore 18 owning these quasi-wild feral cats, so this might be Kerr 19 County or anywhere. That's often a feature of the animal 20 control; if you feed it, you own it. Many feral cats are 21 about as friendly and easy to catch as squirrels, raccoons, 22 skunks, or deer. Next slide, please. Can you imagine 23 catching the deer you feed every year, getting them a rabies 24 shot and keeping a collar and rabies tag on them? If that's 25 not enough, can you imagine yourself doing this as someone 10-27-08 27 1 who is elderly and disabled? 'Cause that's who's involved 2 with these cats they can't catch. Next slide. 3 Spring Branch, Texas, 2006. This says, "Good 4 Samaritan in Trouble. Kindness to cats proves costly." And 5 this is Nydia Montero. This is the San Antonio Express News. 6 When she moved into her mobile home, she inherited homeless 7 cats. She moved in; there they were. Eventually, she 8 trapped nine of them. She gave them -- she had them fixed. 9 She trapped them, had them fixed, gave them rabies shots, 10 returned them back to the neighborhood. She said, "I just 11 didn't have the heart not to do something for these poor 12 creatures." In fact, as we know from what we've heard this 13 morning, she had become part of the solution by performing 14 TNR on these cats, and she had done it at her own expense. 15 However, soon she was served with eight citations for being 16 in violation of the animal control ordinance. Some of these 17 citations included not keeping the nine cats confined on her 18 small property around her mobile home. Because she was 19 feeding them, she got them rabies shots, now she owns them, 20 and they're not confined around the small property around her 21 mobile home. Not having rabies and license tags displayed on 22 these cats she can't touch. You see what the problem is. It 23 was a mess. 24 Under her picture, it says she says, "I'm not 25 paying a cent of these fines." And she's holding these 10-27-08 28 1 citations up to the camera. Ms. Montero's day in court 2 resulted in seven of eight of those citations being dismissed 3 by the Court. The eighth was completed, as I understand, 4 with community service by assisting a local animal rescue 5 nonprofit that performs TNR. So, ironically, in Comal 6 County -- and this is the next slide. This is the most 7 important slide of the day. As I understand it, you can't be 8 prosecuted if you're feeding these kittens, but not fixing 9 them, resulting in more kittens and increased rabies outbreak 10 potential, and endless financial cost from trapping and 11 killing. You can be prosecuted if you're fixing them and 12 returning them, which means you own them now, resulting in no 13 more kittens, reduced rabies outbreak potential, and reduced 14 financial cost to taxpayers because the numbers are stable in 15 those colonies. You see the dilemma here. Comal County 16 Commissioner Jay Millican indicated sometime later, after all 17 the dust had settled over this whole issue, that it may be 18 time for them to revisit their animal control policy. So, 19 now you're getting some idea of where we are here, and I'm 20 just about done. Next slide. 21 The Big Fix supports Kerr County Animal Control. 22 We can't say enough about all the good that has happened 23 there over the last couple years. It has been a remarkable 24 and impressive transformation for them. Those of us that 25 care about animals have noticed that they've got a new 10-27-08 29 1 addition. They've got increased adoptions. They've got this 2 health fair event that brought people together for a day. 3 That was an unheard of event. And Commissioner Oehler was 4 doing barbecue at that event, and it was a very positive 5 public relations statement for them. They care. They're 6 working hard. I've been appreciative of how they have 7 supported us. We are a new paradigm. As you know, you can 8 tell we're a new paradigm. It's hard with new paradigms. 9 Janie has been there for us. She's supported us, she's stood 10 by us, and I think she's wondered sometimes if we're going to 11 cause her some difficulties. One of the reasons we're here 12 today is we don't want to cause her difficulty. We want to 13 help her, and we think we can help her, and at no cost to the 14 County. Next slide. 15 Here's the deal, though. Kerr County Animal 16 Control must enforce the animal control ordinance. If that 17 ordinance is ambiguous as to where it stands with TNR, we 18 think that puts them in an awkward and unfair position. 19 They're caught in the middle between a TNR strategy that has 20 potential to really work and help this problem and questions 21 about how it fits with the animal control ordinance they must 22 enforce. All right. So, you can take her out of the 23 middle -- next slide -- by doing what these other cities and 24 counties have done, and trying to accommodate trap/neuter and 25 return in their animal control ordinance. We want an 10-27-08 30 1 ordinance that is unambiguously supportive of trap/neuter and 2 return. We're not asking for money. We're committed to the 3 work. We believe the community will -- they have, and we 4 believe they will support us as we continue to show ourselves 5 worthy of their support. You have in-hand -- there were 6 packets that came prior to this with sample animal control 7 ordinances and some of the letters of support we've gotten, 8 including one from Animal Control and the local Humane 9 Society. In addition, the Kerr County -- the Kerrville City 10 Council unanimously endorsed us last month. 11 So, again, here's a summary of what we want to 12 do -- next slide, please -- for Kerr County Animal Control 13 and the citizens of Kerr County. We want to help them quit 14 killing cats. The worst killing they do is cats. If we can 15 reduce by 10 or 20 percent the number of cats they must force 16 into a gas chamber every week, we will improve working 17 conditions for them. This is not just about cats; it's about 18 people. All right. Ease their rabies concerns, because all 19 these cats gets rabies -- rabies shots, and they're not 20 making kittens that are unprotected. Save the taxpayers 21 money, help the local rescue groups not be overwhelmed -- and 22 that's about people -- and help the cat lovers and the cat 23 haters, even those people that love birds, benefit from fewer 24 homeless cats in Kerr County. And that's the end of my 25 statement. Thank you. 10-27-08 31 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Warner. As a cat 2 owner, I have -- I've looked at what your organization has 3 done, as well as some of the information from other groups, 4 and what you do is effective work, and we appreciate it. 5 MS. WARNER: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: As you indicated at the outset, this 7 is our first exposure to -- to looking at what steps the 8 Court can take to go forward in connection with this matter, 9 and there are some legal issues involved. We've identified 10 some. There are conflicting provisions in the penal code, as 11 I'm sure you're aware, and that's something that -- that 12 causes a problem. I'm not sure what you have in mind for the 13 Texas Legislature at their upcoming session, but I'm sure you 14 and other -- and other groups of like interest have maybe got 15 some things in mind that you want to lay before them in hopes 16 that they can resolve some of the -- some of the confusion 17 and the legal issues that are involved there. But we 18 obviously have got to look at those legal issues before we 19 take any action, and our County Attorney has done some of 20 that, and has a lot more to do in that respect. We 21 appreciate you bringing that to us. I note that we have 22 several participation forms that have been filed, and I'd 23 like to recognize those folks. Ms. Yarbrough? If you'd come 24 forward, give us your name and address, and tell us what's on 25 your mind about this subject. 10-27-08 32 1 MS. YARBROUGH: I'd like to give you one more. 2 Thank you. I wasn't expecting to go first. My name's Debbie 3 Yarbrough, and I'm the General Manager of Hastings, and one 4 of the lead trappers in our trapping team. I'm nervous. 5 This is -- that's my husband over there, too. We got started 6 with Pam back in 2005, when we were looking to get some help. 7 We tried everywhere to try to find somebody that could help 8 us trap some cats that were in a dangerous area downtown, and 9 we called Pam, and she just came running up on her horse, and 10 so we've been with the program ever since. This is our book 11 from this year, all documented for our homeless cat projects. 12 We go out every week. And I just mention Hastings because, 13 as you know, I probably work a lot of hours, but we still do 14 this every week, put in, like, eight to ten hours. And it's 15 the people aspect of it that keeps us going. I mean, it's 16 the animals, obviously, but these people come to us and 17 they're in dire need, because nobody else does it. And -- 18 and also, the look on their face when you get there, it's 19 like you're -- you're coming in on a silver horse. And these 20 are not just people that are indigent; I mean, you know, 21 don't have any money or anything. It's a lot of people from 22 the richer parts of town as well. And I think that part of 23 what we're doing is raising the awareness. That's why our 24 numbers are going -- our dollars are going up. I guess 25 that's the main point I'm trying to make, is just that it's 10-27-08 33 1 helping the community. You know, we're all part of the 2 community. The homeless cat project really helps lower the 3 numbers, and -- and I hope you see what a benefit it is. 4 Thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate you 6 being here. 7 MS. YARBROUGH: You bet. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Max Reynolds. Give us your name and 9 address, please. 10 MR. REYNOLDS: Max Reynolds. They told me not to 11 give my address, because people might dump cats on me out 12 there. (Laughter.) But I'll tell you. I live 12 miles out 13 on Medina Highway; 4485 Medina Highway. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sir. 15 MR. REYNOLDS: I moved out there in '02. I didn't 16 own one cat. I didn't have a cat on the place. It's a 17 favorite dumping place out there. I can always tell when I'm 18 getting new cats, because they leave a pile of cat food at my 19 gate and drive off. And they make their way up to my house. 20 And I heard about the Big Fix project through our home health 21 provider, who was coming by and seeing all these cats out 22 there, and said, "You ever heard of the Big Fix?" And I said 23 I'd never heard of the Big Fix, don't know anything about it. 24 So, she gave me a phone number, and I called, and they were 25 the nicest people I've ever talked to or worked with. And 10-27-08 34 1 they set up an appointment and came out and started trapping 2 my cats and clipping their ears and bringing them back. And 3 I never did see a smiley face on any of my cats, either. 4 (Laughter.) They are now -- I have caught all of my cats 5 except one. There's one adult female that is a very 6 frustrated cat, and I notice now that she's making friends 7 with all the raccoons and possums out there, so... 8 (Laughter.) But we have had no kittens this year. And we 9 started this project in March and April, and I have -- like I 10 said, I keep trying to catch that one, but it's just not 11 going to happen. So, there's one that's not fixed, and she 12 is fixed. So, it's a wonderful program. It's been a big 13 help to me. I have benefited from this, and have contributed 14 to the ongoing cost of it in some small way as I've been able 15 to. But I think what we're asking for you today is to 16 endorse our project of the Big Fix, and say that it is 17 something that is very helpful to the County, to the people 18 that are involved with it. It's been a godsend to me to have 19 this done out there. I continue to feed my cats, and they're 20 no problem to anybody but me. And we've put signs up out at 21 our gate telling people to please don't drop off more cats, 22 and it has helped in some way, I think. I even put up a fake 23 camera out there so they think they're on TV. (Laughter.) 24 But anyway -- now they know it's fake. But anyway -- I think 25 they probably did anyway, but anyway, it's been a wonderful 10-27-08 35 1 project. And, like I said, it costs the County nothing. But 2 we would just like to say that Kerr County supports the Big 3 Fix project, and that's why we're here today. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many cats do you have, sir? 5 Max? How many cats? 6 MR. REYNOLDS: Oh, I was afraid somebody was going 7 to ask that. Thirty-nine. (Laughter.) And if I got the 8 last one, it would have been 40 fixed, but I only have 39. 9 MS. WARNER: Can you imagine what that would have 10 been without -- 11 MR. REYNOLDS: You know, we have had kittens, 12 kittens, kittens out there for the last couple years. That's 13 why it's got up to 39. I know they're inbreeding; they're 14 doing all sorts of -- you know, and it was just -- I didn't 15 know what to do, you know. I said quit dropping cats off on 16 me, and quit breeding. But, you know, I can't make them do 17 that, so -- and I can't make them stop dropping them on me, 18 either. But it has -- I have had really no drops much this 19 year, so -- and it's -- it's stabilized. I can't touch one 20 of my cats if I wanted to. They're -- they're -- I don't 21 call them homeless cats now, because I think they have a home 22 at my place. I give them shelter up under my porch and put 23 doghouses under there with bedding and straw in it, and they 24 sleep in it year-round, and especially in the winter when it 25 gets cold and weary out for them. So, I'm providing for 10-27-08 36 1 them. And they're not a problem for birds, 'cause I have all 2 my bird feeders up on high posts, so they can't get to those, 3 and -- but they do eliminate my mice and rats and snakes and 4 lizards and all of the other things that they like to catch 5 and play with and eat. So, it's been good. It's good. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 7 MR. REYNOLDS: It's a good thing. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Dr. Autumn Barbutti. 9 DR. BARBUTTI: I'm a veterinarian, and I'm one of 10 the main veterinarians that takes care of the cats. And I've 11 done hundreds, hundreds of surgeries on these animals. This 12 project is great. I came here in 2006, was not much of a cat 13 veterinarian. Liked dogs a whole lot more. I was very 14 skeptical of Pam when she called me about the project, and 15 was like, "Well, I love surgery, so yeah, I'll do it." And 16 so, started working with the Big Fix, and saw how they would 17 go out and they would trap -- strategically trap these 18 animals. And we -- of course, we can't handle them, so we 19 have to use an injection pole in order to anesthetize them, 20 bring them in for surgery. And when they are under, I mean, 21 we're holding them, we're looking in their ears, we're 22 looking -- you know, they get a full health check. Those 23 that are somewhat healthy, we do check for feline AIDS and 24 feline leukemia. I have a -- I mean, we do -- you know, I 25 make the decision as to whether or not I think this is a good 10-27-08 37 1 candidate to go back to the colony, or if it is carrying some 2 diseases that it's going to transfer to the others, and those 3 are euthanized humanely. 4 It's a -- it's such a mutually beneficial setup, 5 because it doesn't cost anything. These people that are -- 6 that are taking care of these animals that are the product of 7 people not spaying and neutering their pet animals that got 8 out, reproduced, and they didn't want to get rid of the 9 kittens or find homes, so they just dumped them, now we're 10 the cleanup crew -- or they're the cleanup crew, and they 11 bring them to us. But these -- they find people that will 12 feed them, and they go there. And they create a -- you know, 13 that is their home, their acre or 5 acres or whatever is 14 their territory, and they continue to breed in their 15 territory unless something is done. And it is -- you know, I 16 was, like, well, yeah let's see what the numbers do. And Pam 17 started coming back to me and showing me, "Okay, we did this 18 colony and this colony and this colony." And then I did my 19 first colony that I found myself, which had 30 cats. And 20 it's -- she's a neighbor, a friend of mine. And we did all 21 but -- we did all the cats. We went in and found the 22 kittens, adopted out all the kittens, veterinary care, 23 tested, the whole thing. And she has one male that we can't 24 get, and my philosophy on that is, well, okay. There -- he's 25 not the one who is having the babies, so that is okay. You 10-27-08 38 1 know, that's a given. But I think this is just a great 2 solution to a -- you know, it seems silly to some people. 3 It's just cats; cats are just part of life. They're just out 4 there. Well, but they're animals, and they start out as 5 pets, and then, you know, this is what happens. So, this is 6 a very humane, wonderful alternative to killing these 7 animals, which is not fun for anybody. So, that's my 8 endorsement. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 10 DR. BARBUTTI: Do you have any questions for me? 11 Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have 13 anything further to offer in connection with this particular 14 item? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, Judge. I just wanted 16 to say that I don't think there's anybody here at this table 17 that likes the no-kill issue -- I mean, likes to kill these 18 animals. We have endorsed no-kill for a long time around 19 here, and I hope that -- I hope that today, that this Court 20 can support the Big Fix. I would assume that the Judge is -- 21 when he's talking about conflicts in the law, that it would 22 have something to do with policy, I would think. I'm not 23 sure. We can't -- we can't even endorse that we like these 24 people or like what they do or anything like that? 25 MR. EMERSON: Your problem, Buster, is with Penal 10-27-08 39 1 Code 42.092. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, of course, I should 3 have recognized that. (Laughter.) 4 MR. EMERSON: We need to address the issues in the 5 code, because it states that you have to provide food, water, 6 shelter, and it also states that if you turn around and 7 abandon the cat, you've violated the Penal Code and committed 8 animal cruelty. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 10 MR. EMERSON: We need to figure out how to work 11 around the statute. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing is easy. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Dr. Warner, what a 14 tremendous presentation. A fantastic presentation. 15 MS. WARNER: Thank you so much. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did well. The only 17 thing that you did wrong is go to the City first. 18 MS. WARNER: Oh, bless your heart. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're the leaders in this 20 community. (Laughter.) 21 MS. WARNER: You have been very gracious this 22 morning, and I'll be diplomatic, leave it at that. There is 23 a lot of other places that have implemented these ordinances, 24 and in Texas, cities that have somehow found a way to address 25 this around a state penal code. So, keeping in mind that 10-27-08 40 1 they continue to be fed, they continue to be accommodated, 2 that may be one way they're addressing the "abandon" issue, 3 but Houston -- Houston, Dallas, Austin, so many other places, 4 you have these ordinances, so I'm hopeful that something can 5 be resolved. If you need any help, I'm volunteering today to 6 be a part of any other discussions that -- that might take 7 place on this if that can help to clarify. Thank you again. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson, because of these legal 13 issues, would it be inappropriate for this Court to even 14 consider recognizing and adopting the proposition that 15 trap/neuter and return is an effective alternative to animal 16 control? 17 MR. EMERSON: I think, as a government body, it 18 would be prudent to wait and let's Figure out how to work 19 around the statute, because do you operate as a subdivision 20 of the State. The State's the one that passed the penal code 21 statute, so -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This guy can put more damper 23 on fun than anybody I know. (Laughter.) 24 MS. WARNER: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But thank God for him. 10-27-08 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, you are going to continue 2 to look at it? 3 MR. EMERSON: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Figure out how what they've 5 done in Austin is -- not like we want to be like Austin. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Excellent presentation, Dr. Warner. 7 We thank you for being here, and we thank you for the work 8 that your group and all your volunteers are doing. 9 MS. WARNER: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on, if we might, to Item 11 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 12 authorize County Auditor to prepare the annual audits for ESD 13 Number 1 and ESD Number 2 pursuant to Health and Safety Code, 14 Section 775.082. Commissioner Oehler? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think the Court is 16 well aware that this has been going on for quite a while, 17 and -- and we have asked the Auditor -- the County Auditor to 18 do this audit on several occasions, and the answer is that it 19 would be unethical and would put her license in jeopardy. 20 She's told us that numerous times. And, so, I couldn't 21 understand. Mr. Alves couldn't understand. He is the 22 president of the ESD Number 2. And it just kept coming up 23 and coming up, and so Rex finally did some research, and I 24 believe that everybody probably has a copy of the result of 25 his research. If not, I will be glad to pass mine on. And, 10-27-08 42 1 to me, it's just a matter of effort. It takes a lot longer 2 to refuse to do something than it would to go ahead and do 3 what's right and do what should have been done earlier; 4 figure out a way to make it possible instead of refusing. 5 ESD's are a part of county government. They're a 6 taxing entity. And the County Auditor works for Kerr County, 7 even though she is appointed by the District Attorneys, so I 8 believe that 775.082 pretty well states it. And there has 9 been a lot of time spent by Mr. Alves and others, wasted 10 time, wasted time by this Court, to have our Auditor refuse 11 to do this in the past, and I think it's time that we 12 straighten it out and authorize her to do those audits, and I 13 hope that she will do them. It will save the ESD's 14 approximately $1,500 a piece, which that money that they get 15 in is intended for emergency services and for fire 16 protection, and I think that's the reason why the Health and 17 Safety Code makes it possible for the County Auditor to do 18 those audits, and I would like to see it happen for a change 19 and get this actually resolved. It's been going on now for 20 well over a year, and it's putting our EDS's in kind of a 21 situation where they need to get their audits done to meet 22 the -- to abide by the laws that they operate under. That's 23 where I am. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. Mr. Wood with the 25 ESD Number 1 has filed a participation form. 10-27-08 43 1 MR. WOOD: Good morning. This Court and previous 2 Courts has appointed me for the previous 10 years to 3 Emergency Services District Number 1. During six of those 4 years, I was assistant treasurer, and four years as president 5 of the ESD. During that time, the County Audit -- previous 6 County Auditors have always audited our books. This year, 7 during budget time, Mrs. Hargis informed me that she could 8 not perform that service, and suggested that they go outside 9 to a certified public accountant. We did, and we found an 10 estimate, Commissioner Oehler, of $4,000 from two gentlemen. 11 This was a surprise, I may say a shock, inasmuch as we spend 12 less than $1,000 to run the emergency service district, which 13 $800 is for liability insurance. So, $4,000 is quite a lot 14 of money. And I asked these gentlemen why it was so much 15 money, because our -- we write 15 checks a year, and we make 16 12 deposits a year of tax money. And, you know, it's simpler 17 than filling out a -- reviewing your checking statement. 18 So, they said that because they had to provide a 19 certificate of -- I think the word is -- is that we are in 20 accordance with general accounting practices, that that's a 21 liability a C.P.A. takes on. Apparently, that's not a 22 liability the County Auditor has, because of the immunity 23 laws. I'm not practicing law, Mr. Emerson, but that's my 24 understanding, just my private citizen's understanding. So, 25 I strongly request that you ask the County Auditor to 10-27-08 44 1 continue this longstanding practice of auditing the books of 2 the Mountain Home and the Ingram ESD's. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Wood. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson, do you have anything 6 further to offer other than what is in the written 7 communication you provided to the Court on this subject? 8 MR. EMERSON: Just the latest information that the 9 one piece of the puzzle that was still missing was the 10 General Accounting Office, the G.A.O. And it's my 11 understanding from talking to Jeannie that the G.A.O. finally 12 returned her call and stated that she -- I don't know if 13 "audit" is the right word, 'cause C.P.A.'s have their own 14 lingo, but she can perform a review of what's there with 15 agreed upon procedures, and opine upon what she reviews, but 16 she cannot opine upon the financials, because technically 17 they don't have financials in the C.P.A. sense. So, don't 18 ask me what that means, okay? That's -- that's the G.A.O. 19 language. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that suffice for the ESD 21 requirements? 22 MR. EMERSON: That I don't know. I mean, I have 23 found that there's more meanings to "audit" than I ever knew 24 existed when I started this. (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It sounds like, from what you've 10-27-08 45 1 just stated, that her license, if it's done for the purpose 2 of verifying financials, may be at least halfway in jeopardy. 3 MR. EMERSON: Well, the key piece to this whole 4 thing is that she can perform the function as a county 5 auditor, not necessarily as a C.P.A. under her C.P.A. 6 license. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That should meet the 8 requirement. And then isn't there something where I saw a 9 disclaimer that -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you put on there that says 12 it's not as a C.P.A.; you're doing it as an auditor? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is; it's in Rex's 14 letter. 15 MS. HARGIS: I still don't have the language from 16 the state board. The state board still needs to give me the 17 language that I -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't hear you, Ms. Hargis. 19 MS. HARGIS: I still don't have the language from 20 the state board. We asked for a legal opinion from the state 21 board, and they would not give us that over the phone. Rex 22 was in my office when they stated that. And they're supposed 23 to give me a legal opinion as to what I can actually do. The 24 problem is not actually performing the work, but it's the 25 letter that's attached to it, which really is a report. Most 10-27-08 46 1 people don't understand that the letter at the beginning of 2 the audit document is not a letter; it's an audit report. 3 And I cannot state on financial statements, number one, that 4 do not exist, and number two -- so, therefore, all I can do 5 is look at the records that they have, because if I go in and 6 perform and make financial statements, I can't audit what I 7 do. And that's basically what my predecessor did. He 8 performed -- he went in, he checked their documents, he did a 9 revenue and income statement, and then he said, "In 10 accordance with American Institute of Certified Public 11 Accountants..." Well, that language doesn't even exist. You 12 don't say that. You say they're presented fairly in 13 accordance with GAB or in accordance with GASB, because those 14 are the two authoritary groups that are out there. That's 15 all you can say. And because he issued -- because he 16 basically compiled the financial statements, you can't audit 17 what you compile. So -- but what I can do is go in and look 18 at the data they actually have and verify that the bank 19 records are correct, that their checks have been written, 20 that their contracts have been -- they have contracts in 21 accordance with the Health and Safety Code, and that I can 22 do. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Your -- 24 MS. HARGIS: That's an agreed upon procedure. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your predecessor, of course, 10-27-08 47 1 was not a certified public accountant. 2 MS. HARGIS: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And so he didn't have a license that 4 was at risk. 5 MS. HARGIS: He did not. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Am I hearing from you today 7 that, upon receipt of this opinion from the state board that 8 gives you the qualifying language -- which it's my 9 understanding that's what you're seeking in this opinion, the 10 qualifying language in -- in your report, your audit -- your 11 report, that you're in a position to go forward and examine 12 those records and issue a report which incorporates the 13 qualifying language in the opinion? 14 MS. HARGIS: And in those -- in those regards, yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: To a certain extent. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You're prepared to do that? Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You are prepared to do the 19 audit? 20 MS. HARGIS: An agreed -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we authorize you to do it? 22 MS. HARGIS: Agreed upon procedure based on the 23 language that I receive from the state board, which will be 24 similar to the language that I had to give them last year, 25 but a little bit -- little bit better, I think. I don't know 10-27-08 48 1 yet. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would certainly hope it 3 would be better. Otherwise, 775.082 is absolutely useless to 4 this Court, because it -- it gives us the authority to do it 5 in one sense, and then, because -- and even says even if 6 you're a C.P.A., it doesn't matter. 7 MS. HARGIS: In -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't matter. It only 9 matters to you, it seems like. And it seems like that, even 10 with all the stuff that has gone on here, and attorneys' 11 opinions to Rex, why don't you just go do it and get it over 12 with? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex agreed with Jeannie, 14 waiting to hear the language from -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, get the language and -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- get on with it. This 18 thing -- this is ridiculous. 19 MS. HARGIS: I think that Rex understands my 20 position. I think it's not as simple as one would think. 21 And I -- I do believe that I have the right to protect 22 something that I worked very hard to achieve. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we shouldn't have an 24 auditor that is a licensed C.P.A. for this very reason. 25 MS. HARGIS: The G.A.O. stated to me also that when 10-27-08 49 1 they read a statute, the first sentence of that statute is 2 what they feel the law is -- is meant to be. And the first 3 sentence of this statute says that an audit will be 4 performed. The second sentence says, "unless." He said, 5 "That doesn't release you from doing an independent audit." 6 And I still feel that -- I will express to the Court, because 7 I did ESD's for many years, that I do feel that independent 8 audits protect you, protect the Court, from any problems that 9 may arise in the future, and I have experienced those 10 problems. And I do want this in the record, that I will do 11 what the Court -- what I am allowed to do under -- under my 12 license and under what everyone else is doing. I have 13 several opinions from some of the other auditors who do 14 perform these, but they're strictly reviews, and they do not 15 give an opinion. So, it's pretty universal as to what I'm 16 saying. I think we will try to do our very best to give them 17 what we can. And the G.A.O. agrees with me that I did what I 18 had to do. And, unfortunately, I didn't realize there was as 19 many opinions out there. I don't think Rex did either, but 20 every single person that I talked to, and Rex talks to, gives 21 us a totally different opinion, so it's not as easy -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not so. That's not 23 so. That's not what Mr. Emerson told me that he heard in 24 your office; that you heard the very same thing from the very 25 person -- very same person. That's not true. 10-27-08 50 1 MS. HARGIS: Patrick, who we spoke with together in 2 my office, gave us an opinion on an internal audit, not an 3 external audit, and that's what -- and, again, with a review 4 opinion. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: More, more, more. You know, 6 we spend more time on this than it would have taken to do the 7 whole thing in the beginning. Nothing would have been 8 jeopardized, in my opinion, at all. You can fall back and 9 look under the law, what the authority that we have is, and 10 it would be over. But we argue about this constantly, and it 11 makes no sense to do this argument over and over. Why don't 12 we just get it done? I move that we authorize, by court 13 order, the County Auditor to do the ESD Number 1 and Number 2 14 audits that are required. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 17 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that includes the limited 19 language that she's required to put on -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That includes the limited 21 language. I mean, whatever is legal. If it's -- I mean, my 22 gosh, -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- 775.082 evidently doesn't 25 have anything to do except a very small portion of what this 10-27-08 51 1 Court can authorize. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, 775 doesn't. But if 3 there -- if there is -- if the language that Ms. Hargis is 4 seeking is that which protects her license, then I think 5 that's important that she be given the opportunity to protect 6 her license. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. By all means, I 8 want her to protect her license, but I sure would like to see 9 her get it done. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with that. 11 I want to make certain she's not putting herself and her 12 license in jeopardy. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe that she is, 14 based on what we've received. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we're clear on 16 that -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But the qualifying language is a 18 part of your motion? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be fine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Further question or 21 discussion or the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think spay and neuter cats 23 is more fun to talk about. (Laughter.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we incorporate that as an 25 amendment? 10-27-08 52 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. I have to think 2 about it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 4 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 10 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 11 approve Central Counting Station personnel pursuant to 12 Chapter 27 of the Texas Election Code. You guys are creating 13 a challenge for me when you put all these acronyms in here 14 and I've got to figure out what they are so I can put it into 15 the record. 16 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? Ms. Alford? 18 MS. ALFORD: This is the central count personnel 19 that'll be at Central Count when the election judges bring 20 their equipment back that night that we need appointed. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the names as 22 presented. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval as indicated. Further question or discussion? All 10-27-08 53 1 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 6 MS. ALFORD: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 6; consider, 8 discuss, and take appropriate action regarding an update on 9 the 2008 tax statements. Ms. Bolin? 10 MS. BOLIN: Good morning, gentlemen. 2008 tax 11 statements haven't gone to the printer yet. I have had -- 12 supposedly had the capability to do something with them since 13 September the 19th, but every step that I take, I get pushed 14 back two, because the calculation program in our software is 15 not working. It took them two weeks after I loaded a 16 supplemental for 2008's that gave corrected values and 17 corrected names and addresses before they could figure out 18 what was wrong. Everything has had to go to development, 19 which is their, supposedly, guru who does the programs. 20 Saturday, there were 10 of us up here working on elections, 21 and I was working on taxes. I ran my statements. The first 22 thing that came up in 15 seconds was that it could not be 23 calculated. So I thought, okay, maybe I put something in 24 wrong in the parameters, and I went back and I was real 25 careful with it. Same thing. So, I shot off an e-mail, and 10-27-08 54 1 Angel Jared -- Jared Angel, excuse me, from Software 2 apparently was working, because he worked on it, and had to 3 go in and do some kind of a special fix on it so that we 4 could even run the statements. So, hopefully this morning 5 it'll be to the point where I can get the statements to the 6 printer so that we can get statements mailed out. But I 7 don't see them going out before November 1st. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How late is that? One 9 month? 10 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. Normally, I have my statements 11 out by the 15th. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two weeks late. And what 13 if that doesn't come about as you predict? 14 MS. BOLIN: Then you'll see me again. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll see a lot of angry 16 taxpayers, too. 17 MS. BOLIN: Yes, I'm already seeing those, because 18 the school district's got theirs out. With this, all I can 19 do -- Software says it's because of HB-1010, which is the 20 overlapping school districts, which doesn't affect us, but 21 apparently it affected their whole program. There's not one 22 step in the 20 steps that I have to do that I have not had to 23 call and have them do something to. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Am I hearing correctly? Is 25 this a problem unique to Kerr County? Or -- 10-27-08 55 1 MS. BOLIN: No. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- is it statewide? It's 3 not unique to Kerr County? 4 MS. BOLIN: Statewide. As of a week ago -- I guess 5 a week ago Monday or Tuesday, I had contacted the printer and 6 asked him how long it would be, and he had only gotten five 7 of the 20-plus counties that he dealt with with Software. 8 Because -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you say "Software," 10 you're talking about Software -- 11 MS. BOLIN: Tyler Technology. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the company? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Odyssey. 14 MR. EMERSON: Odyssey. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tyler Technology? Do we 16 have cause of action, Mr. County Attorney? 17 MR. EMERSON: I need more information to make that 18 decision. 19 MS. BOLIN: What kind of information do you want? 20 I'll gladly get it for you. I am very frustrated with this, 21 because I have -- even when Ms. Rector was in office, I was 22 the one who took care of this, and this is the latest we have 23 ever been, and I'm not happy with them and they know it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are the -- are our -- the 25 calculations correct? I mean, we're comfortable that all the 10-27-08 56 1 numbers are right, if we ever get them? 2 MS. BOLIN: As far as my balancing out as we go, 3 yes, that part is. One of the things that they did stress to 4 me was, before it goes to the printer, to check every little 5 detail of the calculations, so we have to put everything with 6 DV's, with homesteads, with freezes, that are in the ESD's, 7 any different type of a calculation, we have to pull someone 8 and calculate it out and be sure it's calculating correctly. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions for Ms. Bolin? 10 We appreciate your report. Thank you very much. 11 MS. BOLIN: You're very welcome. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 7, to consider, 13 discuss, take appropriate action to acknowledge receipt of 14 the quarterly investment report from Patterson and Associates 15 for the quarter ending 9-30-08. Ms. Williams, I think the 16 only requirement is we must acknowledge receipt of the report 17 itself? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And beyond that, we take no other 20 action? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Correct. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move acknowledgment of 23 the -- receipt of the quarterly investment report from 24 Patterson and Associates. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10-27-08 57 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 2 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of that 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 8 to Item 8, to consider, discuss, and adopt the 2008/2009 Kerr 9 County Community Plan for submission to the Alamo Area 10 Council of Governments. Ms. Lavender? 11 MS. LAVENDER: Morning, gentlemen. This is just 12 the step that we take this time every year to submit our 13 community plan to AACOG, in preparation for grant 14 applications that come forward around the first of the year. 15 This plan is nothing, really, a whole lot different from last 16 year. We had a little bit different input this year, because 17 Peterson Regional Medical Center participated in it this year 18 a little more in-depth. And there's a couple little 19 corrections; I used "Hill Country Crisis Council" a couple of 20 more times in it than I needed to. Need to go back and 21 change it to "Hill Country Cares," because that's the name 22 that they're using now. And other than that, I think it's a 23 pretty done deal. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Lavender, I appreciate 25 that the work you do is very sensitive to people you work 10-27-08 58 1 with. 2 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But my question is, what 4 are the reporting requirements of the grants in terms of 5 number of cases handled, cases closed, et cetera, et cetera, 6 et cetera? 7 MS. LAVENDER: We have to do this through Texas 8 A & M Public Policy Research Institute. We do quarterly 9 reports on these grants, all of us do, that are submitted 10 through them, and then they, in turn, submit it back to the 11 Governor's office. It's part of our grant requirements. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Most of you are aware, I'm sure, the 14 process that this community plan has developed through. A 15 series of meetings are scheduled, are held, in which various 16 stakeholders and resource groups come in and offer their 17 input to the plan, and there's a draft plan adopted, and then 18 follow up with the resource groups and so forth. So, there's 19 a considerable amount of man hours that go into this thing, 20 both from Ms. Lavender's standpoint -- particularly from her 21 standpoint, but also from other resource groups. And, as 22 most of you know, when it comes to, quote, special projects, 23 I have a tendency to lay those in Ms. Lavender's lap, and I 24 appreciate her work. Thank you. 25 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you, sir. 10-27-08 59 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 2 '08-'09 Kerr County Community Plan for submission to AACOG. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 6 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you very 11 much, Ms. Lavender. 12 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 9; consider and 14 discuss update on personnel policy and procedures manual by 15 the Human Resources Department. Commissioner Baldwin. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you very 17 much. I see the Human Resource Department here. Are you 18 wanting to give us a report? 19 MS. HYDE: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I did not notify 21 her prior to this meeting, assuming that she would read the 22 agenda like normal people do. But if she didn't, that's 23 fine, because all I'm looking for is -- and I understand that 24 there's been a considerable amount of work that you guys -- 25 you have actually something to talk about, and et cetera and 10-27-08 60 1 so forth. Here, you figure this out. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you very much. 3 MS. HYDE: I only made one copy, 'cause it's 89 4 pages. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to share real 6 quick? We're going to have a test, right? 7 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. So, there's one copy that 8 y'all can look at. It's over 88 pages right now, but the 9 single page probably would work best, I think, for what 10 Commissioner Baldwin is looking at. These are some open 11 issues that we have. And it is difficult trying to get 12 everyone together, but everyone has agreed that in November 13 we want to get it done, because the plan is that during open 14 enrollment this year, we institute it, so that leaves us 15 about six weeks. Of course, Gary was supposed to be here 16 today; we were going to talk about the RFP, but due to some 17 personal business that he has to attend to, he is requesting 18 a later date. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For -- a later date for 20 what? Open enrollment? 21 MS. HYDE: For us to review the health plan. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. 23 MS. HYDE: And there are some things in there due 24 to the health plan. Of course, there's been some guidelines 25 now that the Sheriff is working on as far as courthouse 10-27-08 61 1 security that needs to go in there, policies and procedures 2 for the Treasurer's office. We also have asked the Auditor's 3 office to give us some so that they can be put in there. 4 FMLA is huge this year. Not only do you have the 12 weeks; 5 you now have 26 weeks for things that are re -- regarding 6 military. That will not come out till the end of December, 7 but it is huge. And it's not just mother, father, sister, 8 brother; it can be a little bit farther displaced outside the 9 sphere that we're all used to. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's going to 24 weeks? 11 MS. HYDE: Twenty-six. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Twenty-six? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Half a year. 15 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Half a year. 17 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. And that is per year, so it 18 is huge. But this -- this is kind of what we're -- these are 19 the last little issues. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to have 21 copies of this for the rest of us? Are we supposed to share 22 it with Commissioner Baldwin? 23 MS. HYDE: I would appreciate if y'all would share, 24 or I can send it to you on e-mail. That way, y'all can 25 review it, instead of printing it out. Like I said, it's 90 10-27-08 62 1 pages. Is that all right? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sure, that's fine. 4 I've got one; you don't have to send me one. 5 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to look at it 7 and mark it up? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I'm marking it 9 up and reading it. It should be through by -- when do you 10 think you'll have the thing completed and done? 11 MS. HYDE: We want to do it during open enrollment. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 13 MS. HYDE: During open enrollment, because then we 14 have everyone together. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is open enrollment? 16 MS. HYDE: Probably be the second week of December. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we got six weeks to get the 19 final one approved. 20 MS. HYDE: And out of these, if we can get most of 21 these, we can get done and then we can update. It's just a 22 matter of getting them nailed in. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there any -- well, let me 24 rephrase. I would appreciate you noting the sections that 25 you think we really need to take a close look at because of 10-27-08 63 1 substantial changes. I mean, you read the whole thing, and 2 sometimes it's pretty hard to see the differences. And -- 3 'cause a lot of times it's not really exciting reading. But 4 if you were to highlight those sections that are -- that you 5 think are critical for us to take a close look at, I'd 6 appreciate it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very diplomatic, 8 Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will say I attended a 11 couple of those sessions, and there was input from every 12 department into this policy. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so it's not going to be a 15 surprise to anybody. And some of the things were negotiated, 16 saying, well, you know, maybe it's not good for my office, 17 but it may be okay for yours. But, you know, I think it was 18 a good process, and everybody got along pretty well. Nobody 19 got in a fight. You know, no blood-letting or anything like 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No auditing. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Huh-uh, I'm not going to get 23 into that. But, anyway, I -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Good news. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10-27-08 64 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was a good process. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, so, December -- the 3 second week in December sometime, we -- 4 MS. HYDE: When we do open enrollment, 'cause 5 that'll give us a chance with everyone, plus it also detracts 6 the S.O.; they're different. Juvenile Detention, they're 7 different. So, it will be much, much easier to get them all 8 together. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. I'd like to 10 see us have this thing up and running and approved by at 11 least, like, January 1, 'cause I'm thinking -- my thoughts 12 are that this may be a tool in these, in my mind, serious 13 evaluations that we're going to do this next year. And I 14 think that this would be very valuable to that, so that we 15 can see -- that we can sit down and take a look at the entire 16 overall program of who we are and what we're doing and what 17 we have to work with in order to make some serious decisions 18 with personnel. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right about 20 this being the forerunner of our evaluation policy. And any 21 discussion that we're supposed to have with Ms. Hyde on that 22 should come after this is -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems that -- I see your 24 hand, Sheriff. It seems that it would probably be helpful if 25 we could have it on our second November meeting, at least for 10-27-08 65 1 us to make the first pass at. That way, if there's any 2 changes, it will get approved at the first December meeting, 3 which I think will be the 8th. That way -- I mean, to get 4 it -- 5 MS. HYDE: The last meeting in November? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to get it done by open 7 enrollment, we have to see it the first time, I'm thinking, 8 second meeting in November. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, do you have the ability to 10 either highlight or redline new areas? 11 MS. HYDE: Sure. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that'll address the concerns 13 that Commissioner Letz has. And, also, some of the things 14 that are going to be proposed here are some significant 15 changes of what we've had in the past. Some of the things 16 that are going to be proposed are -- and like Commissioner 17 Oehler, I was at some of these sessions, and there was a 18 totally wide-open free exchange of ideas by anybody that was 19 there. Everybody had the opportunity to participate, and I 20 think that was a good thing. But -- 21 MS. HYDE: And we had our legal. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- things are going to be brand-new, 23 and folks may not be expecting that, and so -- we've not 24 dealt with them before. So, if you could highlight or 25 redline or in some manner call attention to -- to new things 10-27-08 66 1 that you're putting in there, significant changes, I think it 2 would be very helpful. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a -- a copy -- if we're 4 looking at highlighting in that light gray, it makes the 5 printing a whole lot quicker than doing -- the color really 6 slows it down. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Redline. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Redline really slows down the 9 printing process. But if you do that -- whatever you call 10 that highlighting -- 11 MS. HYDE: What I've got going is a sheet like this 12 as well, and it tells you the page number and the section. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. 14 MS. HYDE: And that way, you've got kind of a cheat 15 sheet, like change, change, change, change. And there's 16 asterisks, two, three, one. One is probably need to look at, 17 two is probably need to review, and three is, like, huge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's going to be some 20 issues that come up that we may need Commissioners Court 21 approval on before the policy manual actually even comes out, 22 such as, you know, comp time issues or overtime issues. 23 Because when you get into my department, it's a whole lot 24 different than -- than what we can do with the other 25 departments, unless you want to drastically up an overtime 10-27-08 67 1 budget, the way I handle it. I mean, you'd have to triple my 2 overtime budget if we pay it immediately, as -- as can be 3 worked out with the rest of the county. But I don't -- 4 there's some that we may need to come separately to do, or to 5 get some opinions on before it goes -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We meet in two weeks. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we can discuss it, because 8 if those benefits -- I know most of the policy is manual is 9 not going to affect my department at all, but if the -- the 10 benefits part, I think, probably should be, you know, equal 11 across, all county employees. But it just can really have 12 some drastic effects if we don't settle those with the Court, 13 'cause I don't have the authority to, and I don't think that 14 she does. It's going to be stuff that will have to be worked 15 out. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's one of the reasons 17 that Commissioner Letz wanted to be able to take up some of 18 these items ahead of the actual rollout date, to have some 19 draft runs at it, so that if there's any changes or 20 modifications that need to be made or there's any heads-up 21 that needs to be given, we'll have the opportunity to do 22 that. And we could start as early as the first meeting in 23 November, but certainly not later than -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the second meeting in November. 10-27-08 68 1 And if we need to do a special meeting -- 2 MS. HYDE: Well, that's what I was going to ask. 3 Can we do, like, a workshop where everyone can get together? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That might be the better 5 approach. 6 MS. HYDE: And people can still interchange ideas, 7 'cause I think it's kind of difficult in the courtroom 8 setting, and then it's real difficult trying to talk to 9 y'all, because I can only talk to two at a time. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think a workshop setting 11 is a better approach. Discuss it openly. We can hear from 12 you and so forth. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't talk to two at a 14 time. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Twice. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twice. You can't talk to those 17 two and these two. 18 MS. HYDE: Okay. That's what I'm saying; I can't 19 talk to y'all like -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But we can. 21 MS. HYDE: -- would be easy. 22 MR. EMERSON: Stop while you're ahead. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Workshop. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on this agenda 25 item, folks? 10-27-08 69 1 MS. HYDE: So, will y'all set the workshop, or do 2 you want me to ask you to set one? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you're ready, let us 4 know. 5 MS. HYDE: What's two -- what's two weeks from -- 6 what about next Wednesday? Is that not the 5th? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Day after the election. 8 MS. HYDE: I don't have a calendar in front of me. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'd be the 5th, day after 10 the election. 11 MS. HYDE: We're requesting a special meeting for 12 the health insurance stuff on the 5th anyhow, which is a 13 Wednesday, so that would be -- like, we could do a two-fer. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could do health insurance 15 and the policy. 16 MS. HYDE: And that way, you guys aren't having to 17 come in multiple times. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't matter, but it's 19 okay to get two things done in one day. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 5th. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do we have to canvass the 22 ballots? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 13th. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 13th. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's always a short deal. 10-27-08 70 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another -- I mean, 2 that's another -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It has a very narrow time frame. 4 Not less than 9 or more than 13, I think is the language 5 there. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- the 13th, that 7 will be a relatively short one. That's another good day for 8 a workshop. 9 MS. HYDE: Okay, 11-5. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Would the 13th be better for 11 you? Give you more time. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whichever works. Either one, 13 the 5th or 13th, are good days to do workshops. 14 MS. HYDE: We might want to do both. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe. 16 MS. HYDE: 'Cause some of these issues -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Follow up on the 13th. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depends on what time of day 19 on the 13th. There's a potential conflict you and I might 20 have. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And I've got two different dockets 23 on that day. Any Thursday, I've got two different dockets. 24 Wednesdays are generally good days for me. 25 MS. HYDE: Well, you want to try the 5th and the 10-27-08 71 1 12th? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Except for the 12th, I've already 3 got -- got loaded. 4 MS. HYDE: Okay. Well, we could do the 5th and 5 then do court. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then decide what we're 7 going -- 8 MS. HYDE: And decide when we're going to do the 9 next one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon on the 5th? 11 MS. HYDE: I'm open. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Afternoon. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a Wednesday? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 1:30 on Wednesday? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1:30 Wednesday, the 5th, 16 workshop. 17 MS. HYDE: And I'll e-mail this draft to everyone 18 so you'll have it this evening for your reading pleasure. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got everything we need 20 there. Let's go ahead and do Item 10; consider, discuss, 21 take appropriate action to approve or disapprove a Kerr 22 Central Appraisal District budget amendment to add to the 23 building reserve account for costs related to potential 24 building, renovation, or other modifications deemed 25 necessary, such account to be funded with surplus funds left 10-27-08 72 1 over from the Appraisal District's 2007 operating budget. 2 This was submitted to us by the Appraisal District for 3 consideration. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- I have no problem 5 with doing this. I think it's a good way to do it, as long 6 as all other entities likewise do it. So, I'll make a motion 7 that we approve their request that they keep the overage, 8 which the Kerr County part is $3,924.51, as long as all other 9 entities do likewise. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 12 indicated. Further question or discussion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, how -- and if the 14 other entities -- if one entity out of the group does not, 15 then we don't? Is that what you're saying? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd want to look at it again, 17 because then all of a sudden we start paying a different 18 percentage over where we're supposed to be, in my mind. And 19 it depends on who it is. If it's, you know -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Headwaters. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Spring Creek Road District 22 for $1.48, we'll probably go ahead and do it. But if it's 23 K.I.S.D., I think it will have -- we probably want to know. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've done it before. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's fine. 10-27-08 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 2 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's quickly do 7 our 10:30 item; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 8 action to approve the revised proposal for engineering 9 services from L. Wayne Wells, professional engineer. 10 Mr. Odom? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. Mr. Wells 12 contracts engineering services for the Road and Bridge 13 Department and bills Kerr County Road and Bridge. Kerr 14 County Road and Bridge Department then bills the developer or 15 property owner. We've included a recent invoice for 16 Mr. Wells' current rates. At this time, Mr. Wells asks that 17 you review and consider for approval the revised proposal 18 which would go into effect November the 1st, 2008, and be 19 effective through November the 1st, 2010. You have that 20 proposal and the other accompanying data. If you have any 21 questions, Wayne is here to answer any questions about that 22 proposal. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: As I read it, it was primarily just 24 an hourly rate increase. 25 MR. ODOM: That is correct, sir, and mileage. 10-27-08 74 1 JUDGE TINLEY: More than reasonable, in my opinion. 2 More than reasonable. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine, I have no problem. 4 Does it have any negative budget impact from your standpoint? 5 That you can't handle? 6 MR. ODOM: I think I increased it. I think I added 7 a little bit this year. 8 MS. HOFER: 2,000 or 3,000, you added. 9 MR. ODOM: So maybe we won't be -- I was a little 10 bit concerned that I maybe kept it the same, but I think I 11 increased it a little bit to cover any exposure, so I think 12 we'll be all right. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item and the revised proposal. 18 Question or discussion? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see Mr. Wells in the back. I 20 want to thank him. It's worked out real well. This is, 21 what, the third year? We're going into the fourth year? 22 MR. ODOM: Third, I think. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third year. Anyway, it's -- 24 this has been very cost-effective, I think, to the 25 taxpayers -- our taxpayers. We're getting -- and we're 10-27-08 75 1 getting engineering services that we need, which I think it's 2 a real good solution for how we're handling our Road and 3 Bridge. 4 MR. ODOM: It's been very helpful. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think it's worked well with 6 the developers. I think it's been an effective way for them 7 to do business. They know exactly who to talk to, and their 8 engineers can talk to Mr. Wells; they speak the same 9 language. Probably both of them went to A & M. 10 MR. WELLS: Not me. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not an A & M grad? 12 MR. WELLS: No, I'm not. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be the only drawback that 14 you've got, then, being able to communicate. 15 MR. WELLS: I was going to be a chemical engineer, 16 and I went to Lamar Tech, which at the time was the chemical 17 engineering school in the state. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. WELLS: And then wound up having a real good 20 professor that they ran off. But, because when I was still 21 there, the American Society of Civil Engineers, junior 22 chapter, wound up winning the Robert Ridgeway award, which 23 was the outstanding student chapter in the United States. 24 Beat out -- it was us and Arlington. A & M wasn't that 25 active in their student chapter. 10-27-08 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness. 2 MR. ODOM: Most of us were in Vietnam. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're still recommending 4 him? 5 MR. WELLS: And there's a corrected copy for you to 6 execute, Your Honor. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I offer -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe there's already a 9 motion on the table. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize County Judge to 11 sign same; add that to the motion. I think I made it, didn't 12 I? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any further question or 14 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go 20 ahead and take about a 15-minute recess. 21 (Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:58 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 24 we might. We were in recess. And we'll take up Item 11; 25 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to authorize 10-27-08 77 1 issuance of a Request for Proposals for mass notification 2 services, and advertise the same as required. Commissioner 3 Williams. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. This is 5 something we've been talking about for several years, and 6 since the very first discussion, which was in those days 7 known as Reverse 911, this whole process has come of age and 8 is really good. At the outset, I want to thank Bill Amerine 9 and the 911 people for doing several things, not the least of 10 which was arranging for demonstrations of the various vendors 11 for the reverse notification software, our internet packages 12 that they offer. Commissioner Oehler and I witnessed several 13 of those, or some of those, and Mr. Amerine also for helping 14 in -- in defining what the system's uses would be, which are 15 incorporated in this. But, just for the record, and to 16 remind people what this is all about, Kerr County would be 17 accepting proposals for qualified firms to provide a robust, 18 interactive, high-speed notification system that can send 19 notifications to pre-identified recipients, as well as to 20 geographically identified recipients using a GIS geographic 21 system interface. The system must be capable of being 22 configured to send notifications to thousands of contacts, 23 including staff, associates, and First Responders of Kerr 24 County, as well as citizens and members of the general 25 public. System must be available to initiate/deliver 10-27-08 78 1 notifications 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. 2 Sheriff has also participated in, and had his chief deputy 3 there, I think, probably more than Rusty was, but he too has 4 -- has, I believe, signed off on that. I'll let him tell the 5 Court that, and in his own words. But what this is today is 6 to issue an RFP, and get the proposals back from those 7 vendors who provide this type of service. We have budgeted 8 money for it this year, and so what remains to be seen is how 9 much the vendors are going to charge us for it. Sheriff, 10 would you like to add anything to that? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing -- I did review 12 what they came up with. I didn't come up with it. It is an 13 excellent program, and it does need to be done. The RFP's 14 that I saw were great. The only thing that I would suggest, 15 or -- or do later, not part of the RFP, I think you have to 16 be real specific on exactly what it's going to be used for. 17 Some of the things in the RFP are great to have there so that 18 we know what its capabilities will be, but I don't 19 necessarily agree that they would be considered in the 20 guidelines once it's -- once it's in place, to be used for 21 those items. I think you have to look at it kind of like the 22 statewide Amber Alert program. There are some very specific 23 uses for that, and no other uses, so that it doesn't end up 24 being a, you know, kid that cried wolf type situation. You 25 really want people to pay attention to it. But the RFP I saw 10-27-08 79 1 looked great, and I'm -- I've been in favor of something like 2 this, and been seeing some of these different programs for 3 the last eight, ten years, and they have a fabulous 4 possibility of saving lives along the river, you know, or 5 helping during manhunts or different things that could really 6 be beneficial. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the point you make 8 is valid, Sheriff. We don't want it to be used to advertise 9 everybody's little bake sale. But for all the many, many 10 things we'd use it for, I think the Court, along with 11 recommendations from your department and I.T., you can frame 12 the utilization that's required. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause I think our website can 14 give notice for a lot of things that you don't want to use 15 this type of -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- system for. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move approval of 19 the issuance of RFP for mass notification systems and 20 advertise same as required. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said that it's possible 25 for thousands of notifications. Now, let's just use the 10-27-08 80 1 flood as an example here. So, there would be automatic phone 2 calls to just people that's living in the floodplain, or how 3 -- how does that work? Are they going to call the 4 Commissioner who lives on top of the hill out here? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No -- that's a good 6 question, Commissioner. Let me see if I can -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we call the 8 Commissioner living out on top of the hill? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we can put that in 10 there. You can get all the calls if you like, all thousand 11 of them. But I remember -- I remember early on, Carl Meek 12 used to tell me about how -- which, Bruce, I'm sure you can 13 confirm this -- how the camp owners, people who live way up 14 on the river would call down below and they would relay the 15 calls as the river was coming down in a flood situation. 16 This works the same way, except electronically. You can take 17 your stylus on a Kerr County map, and you can identify the 18 exact area. You can do the whole river basin if you wish to 19 do so. You can do the first segment, second segment, third 20 segment, however you wish to do it, to notify in the case of 21 a flood, and those calls will go out and tell people, "Here's 22 the problem. Here's the problem. Here's the problem." You 23 can do it. And take, for example, the Kerrville South fire 24 that we had here a few years back; you remember that vividly. 25 We could have notified -- with this system, we could have 10-27-08 81 1 notified everybody, not only within the area, but within the 2 mile or two miles or whatever, that the fire that's raging 3 out of control was coming your way, and you would be out -- 4 be out of harm's way. It just offers up so much potential in 5 terms of mass notification of our population for whatever the 6 reason. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you mentioned 8 manhunt. Are people notified about a -- about a manhunt? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we can -- well -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. He could 11 -- if he had a prison break -- prisoner break, or from his 12 jail or from somebody who came into Kerr County, had a 13 general idea of where that person might be in the county, we 14 could outline that area and put out a notice that he would -- 15 he would say what he wanted to say to the people, and put 16 that notification out, and it would be just to those people 17 within the area that you've identified. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Such as the Seard -- using it, 19 you know. If we all remember, when that happened -- I know 20 Jonathan and Commissioner Williams both got hundreds of phone 21 calls while we were trying to investigate that case, because 22 everybody felt that there was somebody on the loose that was 23 threatening you know, every resident around. And you can -- 24 you can, in just a matter of minutes, you know, design the 25 message that's going to go out, okay? And then, with the 10-27-08 82 1 stylus, just draw out what sector or what part of the county 2 or what, you know, homes, however you want to do it, where it 3 goes. Program that in, and it will automatically call all 4 those people and let them know. So, some of those kind of 5 things can be very beneficial. The fires are -- are 6 excellent, because it saves my manpower trying to get back, 7 and where are the homes in this area? I don't know who 8 lives, you know, 5 miles back in the brush in this area that 9 has a phone or anything where a fire is moving to. We can 10 notify these people. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's next to impossible 12 now without that technology. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, you just can't do it. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't do it the way they 15 can do it. The technology's there, and there's so many -- 16 however many hundreds of -- thousands of calls can go out in 17 a matter of a few minutes. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And notify everybody almost 20 immediately, and not have somebody sitting there dialing the 21 phone, trying to locate, you know, who lives there and what 22 their phone numbers are. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's a flood and 24 you're going to notify everybody that's along the river, 25 let's say, or some kind of corridor goes down through there, 10-27-08 83 1 and you outline that with your little stylus, or however you 2 do it. Can you go over here, like, 5 miles up Lane Valley 3 and put a square around Letz' house to let him know? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That there's a flood? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, there's a flood. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd probably just call him. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It'd probably be -- you could 8 do it. What you have to do is program in that stylus where 9 you've drawn out that section; then you also would have to 10 manually go in and put his phone number. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? So, that would pull 13 that one out also that's outside of that area. The phone 14 call policies that -- which is what we have going, is the 15 best way. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what you can do, 17 Commissioner. You can take that -- if the river is coming 18 down heavy and it's causing all of the tributaries to back 19 up, you can identify those areas on the tributaries and 20 notify these people as well. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, such as up Lane Valley. 22 You may want to notify everybody that's up Lane Valley, 23 because their main exit out of that area is going to be a 24 river crossing. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not even sure they have 10-27-08 84 1 telephone service back up in there. But -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We use cans, string. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pigeons. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pigeons. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Smoke signals. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, how long do you plan -- 7 this is, I guess, like a template? It looks like -- I don't 8 see the actual dates filled in. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have some tweaking to do 10 to get it ready for publication, 'cause this came over from 11 911, and I didn't fill in all the blanks. I filled in the 12 important ones, but Jody and I will work to clean it up. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'll -- but you'll have it 14 out for two weeks? A month? Probably a month. This is kind 15 of a technical one. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so, yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you've answered the question 19 I had, and that is whether Mr. Amerine had participation 20 in -- in this RFP that's going out. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's essential that -- that 23 he have input because of the expertise and the position that 24 he holds. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did, Judge, and he gave 10-27-08 85 1 me the suggested parameters. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I then took that and put it 4 in here, sent it to the Sheriff to take a look at, sent it to 5 I.T. to take a look at, and I.T. came back and said he didn't 6 have anything to add. Sheriff was content with what we've 7 got. So, anything we do now is just a little minor tweaking. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And your intention is, in this 9 tweaking, to work with Mr. Amerine to -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there's anything else 11 that they need input for, yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. Sure. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 15 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 16 signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 21 Item 13; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 22 grant a variance to Kerr County Flood Prevention Order for a 23 home in Westwood Oaks located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom. 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. It came to our attention 25 there was a new home being constructed into Zone A, which is 10-27-08 86 1 an unstudied area of FEMA designated floodplain in Westwood 2 Oaks, Precinct 4, which is behind Greenwood Forest. The home 3 is well on the way to being finished. FEMA requires a 4 finished floor at or above the B.F.E. Kerr County's Flood 5 Prevention Order requires a finished floor of a structure to 6 be 1 foot above the base flood elevation or the B.F.E. The 7 elevation certificate done by the surveyor shows their home 8 is two-tenths of a foot above the B.F.E. Therefore, they 9 meet FEMA regulations, but fall short of Kerr County's by 10 less than eight-tenths of a foot. Since it would be 11 impossible to raise the house, we ask the Court to grant a 12 variance to Kerr County's Flood Prevention Order and allow us 13 to issue a development permit. Now, this may be -- a month 14 or six weeks ago, we came in here with the same situation. 15 These two places were offset -- I mean, in the same vicinity 16 right there. We finally got this one done to be able to 17 certify that -- where we're at with the B.F.E. So, I ask the 18 Court -- it is permissible. We're -- that's federal law. 19 They're at or above by 2 and a half inches, and you're not 20 going to be able to raise the concrete slab. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the other one going to 22 follow? 23 MR. ODOM: The other one has already been done. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did that about a month 25 ago? 10-27-08 87 1 MR. ODOM: We did that one before, sir. We gave a 2 variance to our court order. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with this 4 one, but I think we ought to change our floodplain order to 5 be consistent with FEMA. Seems to me it makes a lot more 6 sense. I'd rather not do the variances. That's a different 7 topic, I know. You might want to put that on the next 8 agenda; we can discuss that at the next meeting, please. 9 MR. ODOM: We'll discuss it. I think it's safer 10 and more prudent to stay where it's at. We're not changing 11 the federal regulations, only to our -- if we had known that, 12 maybe we could have changed it. But I -- you know, this 13 house was framed, everything. I mean, we can be at or above. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's my precinct. I move 15 approval of -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item to grant the variance. Question 19 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move to 25 Item 14; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action -- 10-27-08 88 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we have an 11 o'clock 2 timed item? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 11:30, I thought. We do have 4 11 o'clock. My apologies. My apologies. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hate to interrupt. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It's at the top of the page; I had 7 it covered. Let's move to the 11 o'clock timed item, Item 8 18; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on request 9 from National Wild Turkey Federation to be added to the 10 nonprofit list for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 11 Mr. Snow? 12 MR. SNOW: Good morning. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you the head turkey in this 14 outfit? 15 MR. SNOW: For the record, my name is Billy Dan 16 Snow. I'm here today representing the National Wild Turkey 17 Federation with our Heart of the Hills chapter, as the 18 Treasurer of that chapter. Your Honor, members of the Court, 19 we are a national organization. We -- we serve in the 20 capacity of one of 56 chapters within the state of Texas that 21 fund NWTF. The primary focus, and everything of -- of the 22 National Wild Turkey Federation is conservation, and has been 23 habitat management, but a lot of our funds go into youth and 24 other organizations. I also hold a dual chair right now; I 25 am the 4-H liaison on the state NWTF board. But somehow, 10-27-08 89 1 while working through the -- the booking and requirements, we 2 realized that we were not on the approved list, which has an 3 effect on our fees of our annual banquet that are generally 4 held in March, and we're currently booked for March 8th, I 5 believe, of this coming year, or '09. We would respectfully 6 ask that we be classed -- which we are a fully set up 7 501(c)(3) organization -- for the same treatment as other 8 organizations of that stature. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. My 19 apologies, Mr. Snow, -- 20 MR. SNOW: That's quite all right. Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for running over a bit. I 22 just -- I wasn't with it at that moment. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be Billy Dan. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Billy Dan. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Billy Dan Snow. 10-27-08 90 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, let's go back to Item 2 14, if we might, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 3 action to abandon, vacate, and discontinue the 21.20-acre 4 portion of land from the recorded plat of Comanche Caves 5 Ranch, as set forth in Volume 4, Page 209, Plat Records, and 6 set a public hearing for Monday, December the 8th, 2008, at 7 10 a.m., the same being located in Precinct 4. 8 MR. ODOM: Wrong page. Comanche Caves owners' 9 association are requesting that the 21.2-acre portion of 10 Naroni Ranch be abandoned, vacated, and discontinued from the 11 recorded plat of Comanche Caves Ranch, Volume 4, Page 209. 12 Michael Vlasek and wife, Sandra Vlasek, are the owners of 13 this 21.2 acres of land. At this time, we ask that you 14 accept the concept plan for this abandonment for the said 15 21.2 acres in Naroni Ranch from the Comanche Caves Ranch 16 recorded plat, and set a public hearing for Monday, December 17 the 8th, 2008, at 10 a.m. And I believe that there is 18 counsel here to address any questions on this. This is in 19 Precinct 4, and I believe this is an agreement with 20 everybody, and, and with -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Vlasek agrees with this? 22 MR. ODOM: To my knowledge, that he does. 23 MR. JACKSON: David Jackson, 820 Main. He does. 24 They've signed the settlement agreement. I've talked to -- 25 not him directly, but indirectly, and before we come to a 10-27-08 91 1 public hearing, he'll sign something to make it clear, and 2 we'll finish the rest of the settlement documents. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the only question I 4 had. 5 MR. JACKSON: I just need to be sure that's the 6 proper procedure, and the proper way in which the Court would 7 like to have it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: David, what -- why are we 9 doing -- why are they doing this? I don't get it. 10 MR. JACKSON: They had a controversy. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MR. JACKSON: And they resolved the controversy by 13 agreeing to remove certain portions that are owned by 14 Mr. Vlasek from Comanche Caves restrictions, et cetera, and 15 part of that is to get it out of the plat. The controversy 16 centered around access on Lange Ravine Road. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 18 MR. JACKSON: And so they document the access, and 19 yet they get straight of how the neighbors are going to live 20 with one another in terms of restrictions and platting and so 21 forth. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Lange Ravine is a county 23 public-owned road that goes all the way -- used to be a 24 bumper gate back there. I don't know whether it's there any 25 more. 10-27-08 92 1 MR. JACKSON: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Remember that? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I lived there. 4 MR. JACKSON: Back entrance to Comanche Caves. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We actually own the road, 6 right? 7 MR. ODOM: We own down by Mrs. Vlasek's property. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't go all the way to 9 Comanche -- 10 MR. ODOM: Doesn't go all the way. That was a 11 private agreement with Mrs. Vlasek. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. So, therein lies the 13 problem. 14 MR. ODOM: Therein lies the problem. 15 MR. JACKSON: So, that's been -- and they actually 16 had a mediation trying to get this settled, and I've been 17 asked to document it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is interesting. Cool. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we set a public 20 hearing for Monday, December the 8th, 2008, at 10 a.m., and 21 in regard to the agenda item, for -- concerning Comanche 22 Caves -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- Ranch, and -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said second, then you kept on 10-27-08 93 1 talking. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I didn't hear what you 3 said. Speak up. To discontinue the 21.2-acre portion of 4 land from recorded plat of Comanche Caves. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 7 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 MR. ODOM: Is the wording that he gave appropriate 14 for "abandon, vacate, discontinue"? Or -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think I read it off the -- 16 MR. ODOM: If you read it like we had it, we're 17 fine. Because sometimes that's -- we miss a word. And I'm 18 not a lawyer, but -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it was after -- after the 20 confusion about the second coming early that he included the 21 language -- 22 MR. ODOM: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the motion to abandon, vacate, 24 and discontinue that 21.2-acre portion from the recorded plat 25 of Comanche Caves. 10-27-08 94 1 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I think I said. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I understood you to say that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I heard. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll move on to Item 15; 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 7 bond for Leonard Odom, Jr., with First Insurance Agency. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I have my name down here, but 9 I think Jody sent us -- my bond was expired. The insurance 10 company -- or the bonding agency didn't send it to Mindy, and 11 my understanding is -- is we signed everything a good while 12 back, and then we get it back and I resign it again. So, I 13 want to bring it forward to you to authorize my -- you know, 14 for this bond to go through for me. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 19 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 24 MR. ODOM: I told them I graduated from Texas, and 25 then they hesitated at that point, if I was an Aggie. 10-27-08 95 1 (Laughter.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I noted that he mentioned that after 3 he got approval of the agenda item. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And before the football game. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Okay, let's move to Item 16; 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 7 contract with Kerr Economic Development Foundation, Big 8 Brothers and Sisters, Comfort Volunteer Fire Department, Elm 9 Pass Volunteer Fire Department, Turtle Creek Volunteer Fire 10 Department, Center Point Volunteer Fire Department, Castle 11 Lake Volunteer Fire Department, and allow County Judge to 12 sign same. Mr. Emerson, these are essentially just renewals 13 of the old contracts that are going forward? Same language 14 and so forth? 15 (Mr. Emerson nodded.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval; authorize 17 County Judge to sign same. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval as indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor 21 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 10-27-08 96 1 Item 17; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to honor 2 request from Texas Association for Home Care to declare 3 November 2008 as Home Care and Hospice month in Kerr County. 4 I get these requests to come in; I routinely put them on the 5 agenda for these organizations that claim they've got this -- 6 this particular month or week or whatever. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you may need hospice or home 9 care one day. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 12 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Bill, I 18 didn't see a telephone number in there to call. We'll go to 19 Item 19; to consider, discuss take appropriate action on 20 request for Mr. Gary Elzner to adopt a resolution proclaiming 21 October as Czech Heritage Month in Kerr County. This one 22 we've done before, but instead of doing it as a continuing 23 thing in October of every year, we just did it for a specific 24 year, so he's back. So, the one we're going to do now 25 would -- would put us in a position not to have to do this 10-27-08 97 1 every year. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 5 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 6 signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 11 to Item 20, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 12 to collect mental health court costs from Maverick County. 13 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. Received some information 14 from the County Clerk's office approximately a month and a 15 half ago. Maverick County owes Kerr County a little over 16 $5,000 in attorney's fees, court costs, and so forth on the 17 mental health docket. The clerk's office has been trying to 18 collect this money since December of '07 without success. 19 I've forwarded a letter September 29th to the County Judge, 20 the County Attorney, and the Auditor. Neither the Clerk's 21 office nor myself has received any response at all. So, at 22 this point, our only option is to turn up the fire a little 23 bit. So, I'd like approval -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that consist of? 25 MR. EMERSON: Well, several phone calls and another 10-27-08 98 1 stern letter, and if that doesn't work, then we'll file a 2 revocation. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 6 or discussion on the motion? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they -- how long have we 8 been having that problem with them? 9 MR. EMERSON: This is the only one I know of, 10 and -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With Maverick? 12 MR. EMERSON: -- in the Clerk's office, they've 13 been trying to collect for almost a year. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they just ignore us? 15 Is that the deal? 16 MR. EMERSON: Basically. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I'm not mistaken, Maverick 18 County has been in financial straits because they built a 19 large jail that they couldn't get anyone to use. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they just got a contract 22 with, I believe, federal marshals to fill that jail up, which 23 will solve their problems, 'cause they're almost in 24 bankruptcy, I think. Maybe this will -- I mean, that's not 25 an excuse. That may be, you know, part of their problems. 10-27-08 99 1 But they may have some -- be more inclined to settle this 2 thing as cash comes in. I think they have some real 3 problems. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I think they built that jail based 5 on assurances from the feds that if they built it, the feds 6 would come. And they built it, and the feds didn't come, and 7 so now they're trying to get it resolved that way. But -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Federal, I believe, prisoners 9 are moving in as we speak today. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw something about that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 12 that motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if -- you know, 14 whether its $5,000 or $5, I hope that you do everything in 15 your power to go after it. I mean, that's just not the right 16 -- they're not conducting themselves in the right way. 17 MR. EMERSON: Well, it's one thing to respond and 18 say, "We're in financial straits. We're waiting on the jail 19 to fill up, and can you work with us?" And it's another 20 thing to completely ignore us. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you need a motion to -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We've already got one. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Already got it. 10-27-08 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 2 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 7 Item 21; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 8 pursue environmental health enforcement on property located 9 at 170 Center Point River Road East. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I might add, in Precinct 2, 11 if there's any question. 12 MR. GARCIA: Morning, gentlemen. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 15 MR. GARCIA: June 26th, 2008, Environmental Health 16 Department received a complaint on 170 Center Point River 17 Road East, which is known as Dave's Place Bar and Grill and 18 Pottery. The concerns of the complaint were the added 19 structures, and if the square footage would accommodate the 20 on-site sewage facility that is currently being operated 21 there. Environmental Health did inspect and found the 22 residence and bar and grill, because it is being operated as 23 such -- the owner states he is living there and he's 24 operating a bar and grill. Found it to be in violation of 25 operating a permitted system -- an altered permitted system 10-27-08 101 1 by having the bar and grill operate on the same system. The 2 system that is in place is rated for 150 gallons per day and 3 550 square foot, single-family dwelling. 4 We pursued with a letter of violation, and we did 5 not get any compliance from that letter of violation. So, 6 subsequent to that, the citation was issued, and the 7 following state agencies were notified: Food Establishments 8 Group, Region 8, Department of Health, T.A.B.C., and the 9 South Texas Watermaster. Each of these agencies made their 10 investigation. The one that we had gained cooperation from 11 was T.A.B.C. Once T.A.B.C. issued an administrative warning 12 that the license could be revocated, miraculously, we started 13 getting cooperation. To this point, we have received 14 planning materials. However, again, with a bar and grill or 15 restaurant-type establishment, we get them in the department, 16 we do our review, and then I submit them to T.C.E.Q. for 17 further review or any comments from T.C.E.Q. on these 18 systems. 19 Today we are asking, through the County Attorney, 20 that we get permission from the Court for an injunction. 21 Again, I have planning materials, but we have questions on 22 the planning materials that I'm still waiting to be answered. 23 Water records indicate it's up and down; it's like a roller 24 coaster. We have high water usage, then we don't, then we do 25 again. So, the water records are kind of -- it was really 10-27-08 102 1 hard to determine the actual use. He is drawing water from 2 the river, which the South Texas Watermaster's report says 3 that there is no violation, because he's using it to water 4 his livestock -- his domestic livestock. And he also uses it 5 for some kind of evaporative cooler for his own use. Other 6 than that, we are currently waiting for answers from his 7 registered sanitarian and professional engineer. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What will -- Ray, what 9 will -- or counselor, what will an injunction do? 10 MR. EMERSON: Well, at this -- let me tell you -- 11 let me add one more piece to the puzzle. The department has 12 previously received communications from design specialists 13 that were obtained by that property owner, and then once the 14 specifications came in and he looked at the cost, he 15 terminated that relationship. So, this thing's been 16 stringing on for a little bit, running that kind of roller 17 coaster. If they do not specify the proper answers and/or 18 the design specification changes to fit these requirements, 19 then the injunction will essentially shut him down from any 20 kind of discharge. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, in other words, he won't 22 be able to function as a -- but he does comply with 23 single-family dwelling, 150 gallons per day? 24 MR. GARCIA: Well, see, that's one of the 25 questions. For himself, that -- and since he had made his -- 10-27-08 103 1 when the South Texas Watermaster made his investigation, 2 Mr. John had told him that, "This is my residence and bar and 3 grill." So, because he's operating the bar and grill there, 4 it doesn't comply with what the system was -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's pretend that there was 6 no -- no -- 7 MR. GARCIA: There was no bar and grill? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- bar and grill there; it's 9 just his residence. Then he does comply? 10 MR. GARCIA: There are still questions in that -- 11 no, he doesn't, because there's added square footage to that 12 piece of property there. We haven't -- we haven't received 13 any of the -- the square footage -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's not just square 15 footage that runs this thing. It's the amount of restrooms, 16 huh? 17 MR. EMERSON: There's other issues too, such as 18 improvements have been built over drain fields and that type 19 situation, so the system can't function as it was originally 20 designed prior to this point. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are a couple of 22 things -- a lot of things going on there. As the counselor 23 noted, he built a fish pond over a drain field. We have a -- 24 we have a rain forest, and so I think that his response to 25 the Texas Watermaster was a bit disingenuous in terms of 10-27-08 104 1 utilization of evaporative coolers. Evaporative coolers are 2 for his rain forest, generating humidity so all his tropical 3 exotic plants can survive. And you have fowl also, all sorts 4 of manner of fowl running in and out of the restaurant 5 premises. You have what was originally accepted for design 6 for one cabin, one-person or two-person cabin, and now you 7 got a restaurant operating on top of all that, and no grease 8 traps and so forth and so on. On top of that, then you've 9 got two rooms built up on top of a structure, which 10 ostensibly, I guess, was supposed to be hotel rooms, with no 11 showers, no facilities, no nothing. Other than that, things 12 are good. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, this is a great story. 14 Are you saying fowl? F-o-w-l? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Birds, guineas, peacocks. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guineas, peacocks, hens, 18 whatever. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me you're 20 taking us to lunch there today? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Dang. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly after this 24 motion. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a pretty popular hangout. 10-27-08 105 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it really? 2 MR. GARCIA: It does go -- I'm sorry, I could have 3 went totally into depth on that, but, you know, we could be 4 here for a while, because this case does go back a few years 5 also. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it does. 7 MR. GARCIA: The enforcement case on that. And I 8 didn't think it would apply. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, the injunction, is that -- 10 I mean, if we just -- if we do what y'all are asking us to do 11 today, that gives you kind of flexibility to hold this 12 injunction over them multiple times, if needed? 13 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Took Bill right out of there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is it your intent to eliminate the 20 -- the annual international chicken races that occur at that 21 location? 22 MR. EMERSON: Well, if I did -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That is the site of the world 24 championship -- annual world championship international 25 chicken races. 10-27-08 106 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is, and I have been there 2 when it went on. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, indeed, it is. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it raises funds for camp. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of a neat place, if 6 they'd just get in compliance. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. If he'd get 8 in compliance, that's right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to abstain? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm not going to 11 abstain. Are you kidding me? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the County Attorney was 13 noncommittal on the elimination of the world championship 14 chicken races, but he wants to leave his options open on 15 that. Any further question or discussion on the motion? All 16 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 21 our 11:30 timed item, Item 25, to consider, discuss, take 22 appropriate action on proposed site plan for the Hill Country 23 Youth Exhibit Center and surrounding property. "Surrounding 24 property," does that go all the way down here to the 25 courthouse? 10-27-08 107 1 MR. LEWIS: Not that far. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should we send out for some 4 pizza? I've seen this guy in action before. 5 MR. LEWIS: I'll talk fast. I was just going to 6 say, I'll bet you the chicken sandwiches at the bar and grill 7 are fresh. (Laughter.) Off the record. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No off the record here, 9 buddy. 10 MR. LEWIS: I'm sorry. I've got a board I'm going 11 to put up as well; bear with me. Rusty, I'm going to put 12 this in front of you. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They'd like for you to block 14 me anyhow, so go ahead. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Put it in front of the Sheriff. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They would rather I be blocked 17 from their view anyhow. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you were really 19 high-tech, you'd be using this big screen. 20 MR. LEWIS: Well, I am, but I'm not on time, so -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You guys need to have your 22 cameras. This is an exciting step right here. I mean that. 23 It really and truly is. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter, why don't you show -- 25 Peter? 10-27-08 108 1 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Show it so they can see. We 3 can look at our -- tilt it kind of halfway. 4 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. How's that? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: There you go. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 7 MR. LEWIS: Can everybody see this? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got copies. 9 MR. LEWIS: I got some copies. I didn't bring 10 enough for everybody. Didn't bring enough snacks for 11 everybody. This is the existing site plan. Your Honor, 12 members of the Court, I'm Peter Lewis, and I appreciate the 13 opportunity to be here this morning to present what is a 14 culmination of a long process that we have been going through 15 with the Commissioners. As y'all recall, last month we 16 conducted a workshop with Commissioners over at the Hill 17 Country Youth Exhibit Center, and at that time we reviewed 18 the program space, program activities, et cetera, for this 19 property, as well as we presented to you four different 20 schemes, conceptual schemes for use of the property. What 21 I'm here to show you this morning is in response to the 22 feedback that you provided during that, where you looked at 23 the schemes we presented, chose one that seemed to have most 24 of the attributes, and selected some attributes from some of 25 the other schemes. 10-27-08 109 1 Briefly, I'll go over what the program that we 2 followed was, and the existing indoor arena is at the 3 center -- centerpiece of that property, and that is a 4 building that is going to stay. And that and the 4-H 5 pavilion are the two that will stay as-is. We have proposed, 6 based on the program requirements discussed with 7 Commissioners, a new show barn, a new show facility. That 8 will be an indoor facility, 45,000 square feet, and a new 9 exhibit and an event center that will be approximately 30,000 10 square feet, and it will have -- it will be comprised of 11 multi -- large and small multi-purpose spaces, office space 12 and the support things that go with that, a large 13 catering-type kitchen, and as you can see -- and I'll walk 14 through the site plan in a minute, but we also propose to put 15 the Kerr County Extension Offices in that building for 16 economy, for a number of reasons. 17 The 4-H pavilion is shown. There is -- there is 18 work that has been going on there to make it usable, and it 19 is -- by the time -- even as we speak, that work is being 20 completed. And then the -- the final piece, not necessarily 21 in sequence, but the final piece of that is moving the 22 outdoor arena. And, in fact, if we were to look at a phasing 23 of this, the outdoor arena relocation would be the very first 24 piece in order to free up other pieces of the property. When 25 we met with you last month, we kind of -- we posed the 10-27-08 110 1 question that we had posed to ourselves. What makes this 2 plan -- or what makes our planning effort significantly 3 different than the last master plan that the County 4 envisioned? And we struggled, because the given, the indoor 5 arena, stays where it is. You have a finite piece of 6 property, approximately 25 acres, that is now in fence. 7 Some of the things that have changed since the last 8 master plan study was considered is that this River Star 9 Park, the 7 acres that the County is leasing to the Arts and 10 Crafts Educational Foundation, has been developed and is now 11 being used as an outdoor event facility. But we -- we took a 12 step back and looked at, really, all of the property that the 13 County has use of. And when we first looked at this, we 14 thought of just this -- the fenced acreage, but when we did 15 finally step back, we realized we've got these two grand 16 parks on the banks of the river that really -- and, you know, 17 with the River Star event park developed, you have the 18 opportunity for use and -- and cross-use of all of this land 19 and these facilities. And so we envision this -- instead of 20 just this 25 acres, we envision the entire area that includes 21 Flat Rock Lake, what we call the east park, and River Star 22 Art and Event park. 23 Coming off the highway currently, the County has 24 two curb cuts off of a TexDOT highway. I have talked with 25 Mike Coward at TexDOT about maintaining the use of two curb 10-27-08 111 1 cut entrances and exits off of State Highway 27, but 2 realigning those, and I described -- he's not seen this plan, 3 but I described what we were envisioning, which was aligning 4 our main entrance to the -- to the grounds here with Spur 5 100, and then aligning the second entrance with the entrance 6 that goes to the ball fields across the -- across the 7 highway. TexDOT's standards requires 400, 500-foot 8 separation of drives, whether they're opposing or on the same 9 side. This satisfies -- this meets their requirement. And, 10 actually, he was glad that we were envisioning doing 11 something like this in terms of traffic safety. 12 I also spoke with him about some future -- perhaps 13 a traffic signal, and once the master plan is in place and 14 the buildings are operating and the traffic volumes can be 15 determined, he said TexDOT would be happy to cooperate, work 16 with the County on doing a -- doing a warrant for a signal, 17 most likely at the Spur 100 intersection. His initial 18 comment is currently that Spur 100 doesn't generate enough 19 traffic to warrant a signal, and probably the intermittent 20 use of the property would not, but they -- they really 21 embrace the idea of cleaning up these intersections here. 22 Like I said, the -- the second thing that we envision was the 23 use of all of these park grounds. Some of the things that we 24 have done would be -- I think the very significant -- the 25 major thing we talked about was the -- creating the ability 10-27-08 112 1 to shut down Riverside Drive for large events. That would 2 allow people to safely walk back and forth across it between 3 the fairgrounds and the parks, the two parks. 4 The County has, in the last -- sometime in the last 5 12, 18 months, has put a footbridge that connects Flat Rock 6 Lake to Flat Rock -- to the park east. And in the 7 development of our plan, we also envision the design and 8 construction of a vehicle bridge that would connect the parks 9 as well, and that makes -- makes that accessible both for 10 people and vehicles in a safe manner. You can see we've 11 created a turnaround on this east side that -- it's large 12 enough for an emergency service vehicle, 18-wheelers to turn 13 around in, and it creates an opportunity to do some fencing 14 and some gating there that could be open most of the time, if 15 you desire, and can be shut down for events as -- as you see 16 fit. We would envision the same kind of a design being 17 constructed for the far end of River Star Park, which is 18 adjacent to the American Legion property, but providing the 19 same opportunity right kind of around the entrance -- closer 20 to the entrance to Flat Rock Lake Park, the opportunity to 21 shut that down as well. 22 And the -- in terms of the buildings, we have -- at 23 the centerpiece of the site is the indoor arena. The plan 24 for that is to refurbish, upgrade it, update it, and just 25 refurbish the insulation, refurbish, do an analysis of the 10-27-08 113 1 structural systems, and just get it to -- to enhance the 2 current use of it. On the east side here, we show the 3 construction of a roof extension that would make that area 4 outside of the arena where the overhead doors are a little 5 more usable in all weather. The -- the space to the kind of 6 south side here is livestock pens, which that's how it's 7 currently being used. We would envision updating that as 8 well. And then the next -- the next building to the -- to 9 the north is the show barn. That is a 45,000 square foot, 10 plus or minus, facility. It's an indoor facility. It would 11 be paved. It would have a concrete foundation, so it would 12 differ from the indoor arena in that respect. It would be 13 attached to both the indoor arena and the exhibit and events 14 building, and so there would be an interior connection as 15 well as an exterior walkway across the front on the Highway 16 27 side, and so that events in the indoor arena that needed 17 indoor conditions, space with foundation, access to toilets, 18 would be able to connect. And then the -- on the far left of 19 the site plan, you see the exhibit events. This is -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Peter? 21 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you get away from 23 that, would you tell me how many square feet are in that 24 indoor arena? 25 MR. LEWIS: In the indoor arena, that is -- 10-27-08 114 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A hundred and -- 2 MR. LEWIS: Go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 45,000 square feet, best I 4 remember. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's the show barn. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 150 by 300, not counting the 7 shed roof that's off the side, I believe. 8 MR. LEWIS: Right, and that does -- and that may 9 not include the shed. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't include the 11 other shed that you've drawn on there, either. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the show barn and the 13 indoor arena will be the same size? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the shed area, it's 15 45,000 plus the two new shed areas and the existing shed 16 area. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 MR. LEWIS: That -- and that doesn't include the -- 19 this office area over here, this little two-story section 20 here. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm guessing probably around -- 22 about 60,000. 23 MR. LEWIS: About 60,000. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, about 60,000, what's 25 there now. 10-27-08 115 1 MR. LEWIS: And we say this show barn would be 2 40,000, 45,000 feet. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, yeah. 4 MR. LEWIS: We would envision that being -- that 5 facility being a clear span. If the -- as the economies 6 dictate, but that would make it a very functional all-purpose 7 space. Then the exhibit center, as I described, would 8 have -- at the heart of it would be a large multipurpose 9 space that could seat up to 1,000 people in a fixed seating 10 arrangement that could be divided into two smaller spaces. 11 It would be -- all of this would be air-conditioned, heated 12 and cooled space. It would be suitable for -- and I guess 13 one of the major distinctions between it and the show barn is 14 that it would not be used for livestock presentation, not be 15 used for livestock purposes. This would be a people activity 16 center, but it would also be tied internally and on the 17 outside to the show barn for large trade shows and other 18 types of events that needed a lot more floor area. 19 That space mentioned, the core of it would be a 20 large multipurpose space. It would be surrounded by a sort 21 of a -- what's the word I'm looking for? I just lost my 22 train of thought. A concourse that would surround it, and 23 adjacent to that concourse would be the central offices for 24 the exhibit center, the extension center offices, any other 25 offices that might be appropriate as a shared use with the 10-27-08 116 1 County in this facility, and then some smaller meeting rooms 2 that would be breakout rooms. And if you think about the 3 concourse I'm describing, everyone's familiar with the Inn of 4 the Hills, their new conference center, and when you break 5 out of that large meeting room, you walk into a large 6 concourse that also serves -- can be used for displays and 7 exhibits as well. And then the smaller meeting rooms would 8 also open onto that. Of course, it would be supported by all 9 the public restrooms, any kind of other common area that it 10 would need, and a large catering facility. 11 The orientation of it is, the building is oriented 12 so that it faces the new entrance that -- it's across from 13 Spur 100, but primary entries are on those diagonal walls 14 that face Spur 100, and then face back to Flat Rock Lake. 15 And we show -- we're showing structured parking on all sides. 16 And some of the parking on the south and east of the show 17 barn and indoor arena are -- is large, and it's not 18 structured parking, but it's for large vehicles, 18-wheelers. 19 I've -- during the course of the fair, I've been over here 20 and watched how a lot of those large trucks and vehicles and 21 trailers need to work, and so we provided plenty of area for 22 maneuvering, staging, parking, both adjacent to the arenas 23 and down here in this parking area that's close to Riverside 24 Drive. The 4-H pavilion, that -- as I said, most of the work 25 that was planned there has been put into place. We're also 10-27-08 117 1 showing a possibility of a future horse barn, and that 2 smaller building down below that is an existing maintenance 3 office. That is the sum and substance of the master plan. 4 Along the river, some incidental things. We envision the 5 ability to -- maybe the natural topography might allow an 6 amphitheater of some kind that would also support the event 7 and the outdoor space, River Star Park, but that is the sum 8 and substance of our master plan. I will take any questions, 9 and -- and then I'll -- go ahead. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Lewis, when we were initially 11 looking at this, the exhibit center, which is on the -- the 12 northeast -- or northwest portion of this, it was rotated 13 90 degrees clockwise from where it's shown here initially, 14 and there was some issue about showcasing the entrance and so 15 forth. In -- in the initial one we were looking at, the 16 concourse, as you call it, were on the -- 17 MR. LEWIS: Across the -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on the front, and which would be 19 the side facing Highway 27. And on the east and west sides 20 of that structure were some shared facilities. I think the 21 catering kitchen was one? 22 MR. LEWIS: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: On the same floor with the show 24 barn. And in that particular -- in that particular context, 25 the area to the southwest was -- was totally open for an 10-27-08 118 1 expansion possibility for both expansion of the exhibit hall 2 and also the -- the concourses, as you call them, for 3 additional office space, meeting rooms, et cetera. It 4 appears that this one -- 5 MR. LEWIS: We have -- we have put support spaces 6 in. The catering kitchen is -- they are on this -- this 7 south side -- or the south and kind of west side of this 8 facility. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, does not that limit your 10 ability to expand to the southwest? 11 MR. LEWIS: It does. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: For a major exhibit facility? 13 MR. LEWIS: It does. In fact -- and we were 14 looking at, as we developed this -- the exhibit center, and 15 we don't have a final plan for that, and so it could be 16 anything that it needs to be. And that was -- I was going to 17 kind of sum up to say that our next presentation to you would 18 be the -- the aggregation of any comments you have today, as 19 well as development of that particular building which is of 20 great interest. So -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, from my point, I think it's 22 very important that that whole thing be expandable to the -- 23 to the southwest, as was originally indicated. Now, changing 24 the main entrance on the 45 to showcase that, that's not a 25 problem. 10-27-08 119 1 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. But it's just being able to take 2 those -- what that support space that we've got down there -- 3 and, actually, we will do that. We will do that, and that 4 would -- what will -- if you look at this footprint, if we 5 were to take those common elements and actually move them so 6 that they were a little more proximate to the show barn, we 7 can make that happen still. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And so that you could go 9 directly back. 10 MR. LEWIS: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: To increase the size of that event 12 center, as -- as time and circumstances require, as well as 13 create additional office/meeting space, any other elements 14 you wanted to. You just go to the southwest on it, and there 15 you have it. 16 MR. LEWIS: Will do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, Judge. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peter, you noted one 19 addition to this drawing that we didn't see before, which was 20 the amphitheater positioned on the slope in Flat Rock Lake 21 Park. It appears that there's another small addition noted 22 as a horse barn. 23 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I didn't remember 25 seeing on the last one. 10-27-08 120 1 MR. LEWIS: We -- I alluded to the amphitheater, I 2 think I recall, in our meeting. The horse barn was actually 3 something that came out of a conversation I had with 4 Commissioner Letz, or we had a meeting with him to review a 5 sketch of his composite plan, and we talked about that having 6 been an element that had -- had occurred -- had shown up in 7 some of the studies, and discussed going ahead and showing it 8 as a possibility. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was listed as a location 10 that Peter was supposed to build or find a spot for, and I 11 just said just draw it in there, and if we ever build -- 12 needed it, it could be built. That's a spot that makes sense 13 to do it. 14 MR. LEWIS: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or some other building may go 16 there. Whether we -- the restrooms or concessions, it's just 17 kind of a building holding spot, but it was part of our 18 original -- when we go back through the charge of this whole 19 process, it was pretty similar. He was told to put it 20 somewhere. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back to the Judge's 22 concern, was that on the south -- southwestern corner down 23 there that you were talking about, was there -- was there a 24 kitchen there or something? 25 MR. LEWIS: We'll have a kitchen that will be -- it 10-27-08 121 1 will be -- it needs to be on this side for service. All of 2 the service functions for those buildings are on the 3 southwest side of this, but it could be -- it could actually 4 connect to the show barn area. But, yes, there is, and we 5 talked about a catering type kitchen. Not a full 6 institutional kitchen, but a kitchen that could be used to 7 support events, and people would bring -- you know, either 8 bring their own meals or have it catered by some 9 organization. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would not be the same 11 type facility that would take care of concessions for 12 anything that was going on in the show barn or the indoor 13 arena? 14 MR. LEWIS: No. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MR. LEWIS: No, that would be a separate program 17 item. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But if the facility -- if there were 19 something that were occurring in the show barn that required 20 some sort of catering kitchen requirements, you'd have that 21 availability if it were bridging between those two -- 22 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- two structures. 24 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And that -- I'm going back to Plan 1 10-27-08 122 1 that we saw. 2 MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- you know, it -- my sense of it 5 was that every member of this Court was pretty solidly on a 6 lot of those provisions of Plan 1, particularly the exhibit 7 center and the way it was located so that it could expand to 8 the southwest, and for all of its functions, and also so that 9 it could serve transitionally the show barn. And I think the 10 only change was we wanted to -- 11 MR. LEWIS: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- rotate that main entrance to the 13 45, where it was, as you drove in from Spur 98 -- or Spur 14 100, rather, boom, there it was. 15 MR. LEWIS: It's obvious that's the entrance to it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like -- 18 MR. LEWIS: We will make that so. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And today, you just want to 20 basically hear what you just heard to make that one tweak to 21 get off that -- I guess looks like a shed or whatever that 22 little piece is on the bottom southwest corner. Looks like 23 that would conflict with expansion. And -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Put it over there on the -- be on 25 the -- 10-27-08 123 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get rid of it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- southeast side, for some other 3 transitional functions over here on the southeast side. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other quick question, 5 Peter. You show kind of a roundabout on the Riverside Drive, 6 on the eastern side. Do you anticipate the same thing on the 7 western side of Riverside Drive? 8 MR. LEWIS: I do. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. LEWIS: I do. I envision it at the far end of 11 that 7 acres that the Arts and Crafts Educational Foundation 12 uses, because -- and that would be a good place to turn 13 people around. There is a -- there's a public road that 14 comes through Maldonado's property that's not far from there, 15 so if you turn around, you don't have far to go to get back 16 out to the highway. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's there at the entrance into 18 the Flat Rock -- 19 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Lake Park on the west side where 21 it comes down to that parking area and boat ramp, isn't it? 22 MR. LEWIS: Yeah. It's proximate to it, yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're talking about 24 Riverside Drive, during these functions, closing that road 25 down. 10-27-08 124 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My personal opinion is, it 2 ought to be closed and just made into part of the park. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not asking you for 4 permission. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then why are you mentioning 6 it? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To let you know. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't intend to even ask 9 forgiveness after the fact? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 11 MR. LEWIS: Well, that was -- and closing it was 12 our initial suggestion; just say, "How about closing it?" 13 And then, in the conversation in our workshop, we discussed 14 providing the ability to close it. And with the turnarounds, 15 you can do -- if someone comes down there, it's easy for them 16 to say, "I can't go here," and they can turn around, get back 17 out. And emergency services vehicles can turn around, or 18 they can get onto the property, even if it is gated. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can run them down. And 20 if they get lost back there, Rusty can catch them. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was one -- I guess it 22 was the first year of the Arts and Crafts Fair down there 23 that they started that, and we had officers that -- at both 24 ends, 'cause that -- and I'll be honest; that was a total 25 disaster, the way it -- it just didn't work. We had 10-27-08 125 1 people -- all kinds of people upset, 'cause they thought they 2 should be able to still go on through, and it -- it was not a 3 good idea. You know, and to be honest, if the County can -- 4 or, you know, whoever would need to abandon that portion of 5 the road can just turn it into part of that where you have 6 direct access, and none of those problems going all the way 7 down, the requirement would be by far the best way to do it. 8 Because they were trying to keep big service trucks going in, 9 but not other ones, and it -- it's a nightmare. It needs to 10 be closed if it's going to be used as part of the park. 11 MR. LEWIS: We had a lot of discussion about that, 12 about all the events that generate a lot of traffic and the 13 ones that generate the 18-wheelers and large trailers, and 14 traffic flow as you get them on and they stage. Particularly 15 during the Junior Livestock Show and Arts and Crafts Fair, 16 you've got where we've got artists coming in unloading. They 17 all bring big trailers. So, each of those events kind of 18 needs a traffic plan that is built around the circulation of 19 this, and we think that -- that with the alignment of the 20 drives off 27, and we've got four additional entrances off of 21 Riverside, or possible entrances off of Riverside, that we 22 can create a lot of queuing on the property, and -- and will 23 allow the kind of queuing and staking prior to those events. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The issue we had is, people 25 know -- people stated to officers trying to work and control 10-27-08 126 1 some of that, "This is a public road; you can't keep me from 2 going in it." 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry I told him. You 4 just can't give him enough information. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, our next step after today 6 is to come back with a basic pricing. 7 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some final drawings. 9 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or final sketches, really. Not 11 drawings. 12 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plans. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Quickly. 15 MR. LEWIS: We'll come back at your next meeting. 16 We'll be back at your next meeting. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's pretty quick. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Hang on, we might have some more 20 work for you here in just a moment. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're leaving the 22 amphitheater in there for now? 23 MR. LEWIS: As a concept. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. 25 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. And I'm not certain that 10-27-08 127 1 that's the best place, but there -- you know how that grade 2 falls off there. It's a natural to set something in the 3 hillside. And over on the art -- at Arts and Crafts Fair, 4 we've done something like that with those big limestone 5 blocks. We just set those in -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that looks terrific. 7 MR. LEWIS: It was simple to do, and it -- and we 8 use the heck out of it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's beautiful over there. 10 I'm just concerned about the dog poo-poo down in the park. 11 (Laughter.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, that one -- that 13 amphitheater will be primarily for bluegrass music. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This one here? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leave it. Put it in ink. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's going to be where 18 you're going to spend your golden years. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Down there. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Performing. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And over on the River Star Park, 22 where they put in that little seating arrangement for 23 entertainment, I might add they've had some wonderful 24 sponsors for that entertainment, people you know. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 10-27-08 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? Mr. Balser? 2 MR. BALSER: Yes, sir. I just got a couple of 3 questions to ask. We have a couple of concerns on -- like, 4 he's got it to where we can't use the exhibit -- the exhibit 5 and event center for any animal or anything. Where will our 6 Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show have its sale? 7 Is the show barn still going to be air-conditioned up front 8 where the exhibit center is now? Are y'all going to take 9 that air conditioning part out of there? Because we have all 10 those concerns as far as our sale goes, because we -- y'all 11 know how hot it gets in that barn. And most of y'all have 12 been to the sale, and -- but the way I see his drawing, we 13 have no way to even use that show barn, because there's no 14 unloading zone for our animals, for our swine. 15 MR. LEWIS: This whole area back here, if I 16 might -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are just rough drawings. 18 These aren't plans. 19 MR. BALSER: I understand. I understand. 20 MR. LEWIS: This whole area is loading, and this is 21 a service area that will have access in, and you'll be able 22 to load here. This front part would be whatever -- it would 23 be the kind of things for offices and support. And right 24 now, we were talking about this being heated and ventilated, 25 and it's really up to the Commissioners if -- if this needs 10-27-08 129 1 to be air-conditioned. We've discussed that. 2 MR. BALSER: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. LEWIS: But it would serve that purpose. And 4 it's a significantly larger amount of area than you currently 5 have. 6 MR. BALSER: I wouldn't think it all would need to 7 be air-conditioned, but the portion that we have now we may 8 need air-conditioned for our sale, because we cannot use the 9 exhibit center. You know, most of the -- the only concern I 10 have, really, that our E. board has with everything is we 11 really haven't been talked to, asked what our feelings is 12 about anything, our use of the show barn. It is the Hill 13 Country Youth Exhibition Center. We use it, and -- but we 14 have not been asked any type of, you know, what -- what do we 15 need? And I guess that's what I'm seeing, is we -- the sale 16 area, the show area, and also the unloading for the swine, 17 the goats and the lambs and the steers, they're taken care 18 of, 'cause that's no change, basically, there. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just the hogs. 20 MR. BALSER: But you've taken 75 percent of our 21 area to unload. I'm not talking about the parking or 22 anything like that, or where we party outside. That -- 23 that's not -- but I'm just talking about access to be able to 24 unload and use that barn for our facility. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's a big area to 10-27-08 130 1 unload. I think that you may have to change where you 2 unload. 3 MR. BALSER: Yeah, but access to that -- I mean, 4 it's just everything's going to have to come in right here, 5 and then access to this area over here. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you could come in -- 7 MR. LEWIS: You've got access over here, here, and 8 into an area here. These -- this may be striping; these may 9 be raised. I wanted to give some structure to this cross 10 drive. But you've really got this whole area here, and at 11 this scale, you've got -- that's about a hundred and -- 12 that's around 100 feet. 13 MR. BALSER: Take the trees out. But, anyway, 14 that's our concern. And, you know, I just kind of would like 15 to -- maybe our executive board would have a decision -- not 16 a decision, but a voice in the usage of it and the way things 17 are being planned on that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they'll be -- at the 19 time that we start working on details, I think -- 20 MR. BALSER: I like the drawing. I like everything 21 about it. It's very useful. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Listen, don't interrupt. I 23 said as soon as we get to the point we're designing 24 something, we'll get your input. 25 MR. BALSER: Okay. 10-27-08 131 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just site planning, 2 where buildings go. 3 MR. BALSER: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Really, just parking off 5 square footages. 6 MR. BALSER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Spaces. 8 MR. WALSTON: I guess my only question is, as far 9 as our Extension offices, how are we -- is it -- what kind 10 of -- are we going to have any input on exactly the layout on 11 that? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Trust us. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same thing. You're going to 14 get a lot better than you have now, I'm sure. 15 MR. WALSTON: Well, I'm sure. I just -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason, Roy, is that 17 building -- we looked at that and talked about it quite a bit 18 at our last meeting. This help -- uses the property a lot 19 better, and also has one location where y'all would be in 20 along with other offices, potentially. You know, we'd like 21 to get the U.S.D.A. over there at the same building. They've 22 shown a desire to kind of locate with y'all, or near you. 23 And it's a way to give better usage of space. 24 MR. WALSTON: That would be fine. As far as, you 25 know -- I mean, there's some -- we could use some more 10-27-08 132 1 storage and some things like that. So, if we get a chance 2 to -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's the same thing. 4 When we get a check for a couple million dollars, then we'll 5 really start talking serious to y'all. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all got somebody on the hook 7 that's got one of those kind of checkbooks? 8 MR. WALSTON: If I did, I'd have some other things 9 taken care of. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. Okay. Mr. Snow, how 11 do you want to muddle this up? 12 MR. SNOW: Well, you know, appraisers, we never are 13 content with things. In looking at the concept plan, based 14 on some of the prior conversations, I would ask what 15 considerations on the outdoor arena, where it is now 16 placed -- we were originally visited with about restrooms 17 would be under the 4-H pavilion with a concession stand 18 there. Now it looks like everything keeps moving farther to 19 the south, and is there any provisions? And on this 20 turnaround, Mr. Lewis, where would gating be in there where 21 we're coming in with gooseneck trailers, or for our parking, 22 which would be the area to the south of the arena, I assume? 23 MR. LEWIS: We have a gate only at this point. And 24 if -- if they were going to close this down, this -- you 25 know, those gates would be open to access the property, and 10-27-08 133 1 closed down if -- as conditions -- circumstances dictated. 2 But that would be right here, but this area here, in all 3 other events, would be free and clear. 4 MR. SNOW: Well, I guess -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There may be another gate right 6 before the cul-de-sac going into the property right about 7 your little finger right there. 8 MR. SNOW: Would it not be possible to look at one 9 coming right off of the circle? You've got enough swing 10 radius with those bigger trailers. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somewhere on that side. 12 MR. SNOW: Everything on that side would be one of 13 the other things we would at least like to have considered. 14 And then, like I say, what do we do? The grandstand needs to 15 go to the north, northwest side; puts the sun at your back in 16 the afternoons instead of facing it, which would work fine, 17 but they're somewhat adjacent. We may also need concession 18 and/or restroom facilities within a reasonable proximity. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We looked at the -- the restroom 20 facilities, and in order to run sewer line -- 21 MR. SNOW: That much farther. We get to take a 22 hike. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're looking at -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You're understanding the problem. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But a little septic, a real 10-27-08 134 1 small bathroom kind of -- you know, that can be used. 2 MR. SNOW: But, again, what -- it's a combination 3 of restroom, concessions, and -- and there's a facility, the 4 one that they've erected over here at Fredericksburg off of 5 Equine Drive, where their new arena is, that is a very 6 functional building, restroom block all in one structure. 7 MR. LEWIS: We'll take a look at it. 8 MR. SNOW: I suggest as a possibility of something 9 to -- 10 MR. LEWIS: We did interview one of their board 11 members and spent a couple hours with them. And Gary Hatch 12 from my office took a tour of that, so we'll go back and talk 13 a little bit more about that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but -- yeah. Let me 15 just -- we've talked about this. I don't know. We've talked 16 about this probably a dozen times now since it's been on our 17 agendas, but the purpose of what we're doing right here is 18 solely to get basic drawings, basic costs, so we can go try 19 to raise the money. I mean, there's going to be lots of time 20 for all these -- you know, what you're talking about is, in 21 reality, a $75,000 addition. You know, that's -- it's an 22 important part for that little piece, but, you know, it's not 23 critical to us getting -- we don't need to spend money 24 worrying about a restroom over there at this point. What we 25 need is to have drawings that we can go and try to raise the 10-27-08 135 1 three, four million dollars it's going to take to do this, 2 and then we can -- once we get the money, then we'll go into 3 a full planning mode as to how we actually do it and what the 4 details and, you know, start doing full architectural 5 drawings. 6 MR. SNOW: Thank you. 7 MR. WALSTON: Bruce, can you not tie into this 8 septic line on Riverside? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can, but the thing is, 10 it's about -- you know, the end of the line is over there by 11 the outdoor arena where it is now. 12 MR. WALSTON: Oh, that's the end of it? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It comes out between the -- 14 the arena -- indoor arena and the hog barns, where it comes 15 out, and it turns and goes back southwest across there. And 16 so you're looking at a long -- you know, it would be better 17 to extend the sewer line down Riverside Drive than it would 18 be trying to tie a small restroom facility into that. 19 MR. WALSTON: That's what I was thinking. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, septic is a lot 21 cheaper, and we got good soil. 22 MR. LEWIS: Small system, yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Small system or something 24 like that. We're not talking about a full-blown restaurant 25 or anything that would require a huge amount. 10-27-08 136 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With chickens and guineas. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not used every day. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you saying that would be a 4 suitable location for the chicken -- world championship 5 chicken races? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chicken races. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more for Mr. Lewis? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need a motion on this is 11 the plan? I'll make a motion that we -- or request Mr. Lewis 12 to proceed with the plan as presented today, with the 13 modifications discussed, primarily with the exhibit center. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 16 indicated. Question or discussion? You got clear direction? 17 MR. LEWIS: I do. In fact, appreciate your 18 comments and feedback. Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 20 by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. What's the 25 pleasure of the Court? Y'all want to go to lunch, or do you 10-27-08 137 1 want to just plow on through here? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do we have left? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: About five items. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty quick. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's plow. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll plow. Let's go to Item 7 22; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to rescind 8 Court Order Number 30940 giving notice to the City of 9 Kerrville for the cancellation of our Interlocal Cooperation 10 Agreement for Regulation of Subdivisions within the City of 11 Kerrville's Extraterritorial Jurisdiction. Commissioner 12 Letz? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got a second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make it quick, Letz. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 25 to Item 23; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 10-27-08 138 1 giving notice to the City of Kerrville on cancellation of the 2 ETJ agreement. Commissioner Letz? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Real quick, what we've just 4 done, there is a 90-day cancellation provision. That 90 days 5 is up next week. Rather than try to negotiate a new 6 cancellation period with the City, it's easier for us just to 7 rescind the first one and give them a new 90-day notice. 8 They are sort of working with us. They have appointed two 9 councilmen. The councilmen haven't been very successful in 10 getting staff to bring the documents that they've asked for, 11 so we're going to make another pass at that with a letter to 12 the mayor today. And -- and there's not an exact meeting of 13 the minds between the County Attorney and the City Attorney, 14 but they're working. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We're doing -- just getting a new 16 90-day period to work this? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10-27-08 139 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 3 Item 24; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 4 proposed -- excuse me. Take appropriate action regarding 5 correcting one employee in the position schedule and annual 6 payroll for FY '08-'09. Twenty-five words or less. 7 MS. HYDE: We messed up. We need to get it fixed. 8 It's Rex's employee. It's going to be $3,030.96 addition to 9 the payroll. That is not including FICA, yada, yada, yada. 10 Less than 25. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just plugged in the wrong 12 number in the mix? 13 MS. HYDE: It shows appointed, and she's not 14 appointed. She's hired by Rex; she's not an appointed 15 official. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 25 Item 26; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 10-27-08 140 1 rescind Court Order Number 31049, which approved the rules 2 regarding the format of ESD Number 1 and ESD Number 2 audits 3 and reports. Commissioner Oehler, I assume this is to 4 rescind that one so that we can put in place the one that we 5 adopted earlier; is that correct? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. There's no reason 7 for the -- I see for that order to exist, if our County 8 Auditor's going to do the audits. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And as authorized by item -- what, 10 4? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that a motion, 12 Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, it is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 17 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 22 Item 27 on the amendment. Consider, discuss, and take 23 appropriate action to designate a committee to review and 24 evaluate courthouse windows bids or proposals and make 25 recommendations to Commissioners Court on such bids or 10-27-08 141 1 proposals. This is on the agenda as a suggestion which 2 resulted from the receipt of the bids at a prior meeting, and 3 I think the Court suggested that maybe we get -- in addition 4 to whatever other county reps, that we get Mr. Lewis involved 5 in that also. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked Mr. Lewis if he or his 7 firm is willing to help with that pro bono, and, of course, 8 he said yes. And -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a good thing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Your German heritage is showing, 11 Commissioner. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he -- he said that they've 13 actually done -- looked at windows -- these issues 14 previously, and worked with -- for the same reasons, with 15 other buildings in town. And I thought that -- it's not from 16 him, but another thought in mind, that it might not be bad to 17 have someone such as Steve Huser or Mike Lowe or some builder 18 that does a lot of buildings, some of these renovations, 19 around to look at it from a quality standpoint. Peter Lewis 20 may very well be able to offer that as well, but just a 21 thought, if we wanted to have a -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the Judge and Peter 23 Lewis ought to do it. This was kind of the Judge's thing 24 from the beginning. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I want to be on the committee. 10-27-08 142 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, I'd look for you to be on 2 that with Peter Lewis. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And maybe Tim involved, too. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Tim. Tim, yeah, that's 6 fine. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Was that a motion? 8 Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion, Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is a motion, yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. I have a motion and 12 second. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 13 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 18 Section 4, payment of the bills. Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we pay 20 our bills. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to pay 23 the bills. Question or discussion? Let me lead off on this. 24 Sheriff's still here. Dailey Wells, maintenance, 27,000 25 dispatch console system. 10-27-08 143 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's our yearly maintenance 2 fee with Dailey Wells on our entire radio system. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So that's a contractual 4 obligation? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's contractual, yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All-righty. Page 38, Health 7 and Emergency Services. NAPECO, navy coats. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Navy coats. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: $2,925. What in the world is that? 10 First Responders, I guess? 11 MS. HARGIS: I guess. I'm assuming those are the 12 jackets that the First Responders would wear. I wasn't here. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That identify them and -- 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and have patches on them and have 16 the attachments so that they can carry the kind of gear 17 around that they need and so forth? 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, they're working for 20 free, so I suppose that's not too bad, then. 21 MS. HARGIS: I think these are all their uniforms. 22 We didn't spend -- he didn't spend very much money last year. 23 I think this probably finishes -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: This is out of their 10,000 and 25 change expenses? 10-27-08 144 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Remind me, I'd like to take 4 a look at that, please. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to the next page, 6 Page 39. Second item, patrolman's carbine, capital outlay. 7 I assume that's a -- some sort of automatic or semi-automatic 8 weapon. 9 MS. HARGIS: As I recall, that's part of his 10 budget. He asked for some -- a weapon, guns of some sort. 11 I'm not familiar. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What is this? 13 MS. HARGIS: This is the Environmental Health. I 14 believe they had that as part of their -- if you look at 15 their budget items, because I did check this one. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Environmental Health is 17 buying -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Patrolman's carbine. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health is getting into 20 big-time shootouts. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, patrolman's carbine, 22 what he's getting is probably an AR-15, then, or -- 23 MS. HARGIS: I think he's getting two of them. I 24 think. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $879, that's one. 10-27-08 145 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. That's going to be an 2 AR-15. That's a fully semiautomatic rifle that -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell you what, don't dump in 4 this damn county. (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't see the need 6 for that. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you have a law enforcement 8 agency or do you have an environmental health agency? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is it the constable asking you 11 for this? Or -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's coming out of 13 Environmental Health budget. Let's pull that one and let it 14 wait. He hasn't bought it yet, has he? You might let him 15 know not to buy that. 16 MS. HARGIS: I think he has. 17 MS. HYDE: He bought it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: He bought it? 19 MS. HARGIS: It was in his budget. You approved it 20 in his budget. 21 MS. HYDE: Y'all approved it in the budget. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We might have approved 23 supplies. Or -- 24 MS. HARGIS: No, it was actually listed. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as a group. 10-27-08 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Capital outlay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And body armor. 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to compare these 5 prices in your body armor. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only -- in next year's 7 budget, I don't -- you may want to take a look at who 8 Environmental Health Department goes under if you're going to 9 have them as certified officers. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Rex, you're being 11 uncharacteristically quiet on this one. 12 MR. EMERSON: Sounds like a policy issue to me. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You want to remain 14 uncharacteristically quiet? 15 MR. EMERSON: Absolutely. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you got it -- right now, 17 you got it under constable, which that has all the authority. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which technically, to be under 19 the constable, the majority of his duties have to be in line 20 with constables' duties. How much of its duties are in line 21 with constables duties? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think quite a bit, 23 actually. More than we anticipated. 24 MR. EMERSON: You guys do realize this rifle could 25 be used to shoot chickens. (Laughter.) 10-27-08 147 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or guinea hens. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about feral cats? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Indeed. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's in the budget. We 6 should have caught it earlier. That is a total of about 7 $2,600, which -- well, but, you know. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we need to have the 9 talk about it. I really do, whether it was in the budget or 10 not. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, have a visit 12 about it, just to find out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got -- those first -- 14 one, two, three, four -- five items, you got $133 worth of 15 ammo, and then you got some body armor, and then you got the 16 carbine, and then Hornady; they make bullets. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, that's bullets. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: $130 again worth of bullets. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2,500, a little over. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know what the need is 21 for that. 22 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, you need a new carbine? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll be honest, gentlemen, the 25 ones that we use are the Ruger Mini 14's, okay? That the -- 10-27-08 148 1 the County bought years ago. I have purchased a few over -- 2 maybe five or six while I've been in office through different 3 seized funds to replace, but a lot of my people have opted to 4 carry their own personal AR-15's that they have to get 5 permission to do and qualify with, but I haven't asked this 6 County to buy any other weapons for any agency. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to get that 8 one -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if he's bought them, 10 we're in a little bit of a situation. It's a budgeted item; 11 he didn't have to get Commissioners' approval, but I think we 12 need to get word to him that we have a question on the 13 expenditure. He needs to come before they unbox all the 14 stuff and start practicing; come talk to us at our next 15 meeting. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If he's already fired it, we 17 bought it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. You 19 may be getting one. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a need for them all the 21 time. But I'm a law enforcement agency, not an environmental 22 health. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's all I can stir up 24 today. Somebody else take a run at it. 25 MS. HARGIS: Okay. There was one bill that didn't 10-27-08 149 1 get included, and I gave y'all a copy of that, so I just need 2 approval on that one as well. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we handle that as a late bill? 4 MS. HARGIS: We can handle that as a late bill. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 6 second for the bills. Question or discussion further? All 7 in favor of the motion, signify by raising -- are we going to 8 exclude the coats, or any of this other? It's already 9 purchased, isn't it? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no. We're going to 11 leave that in there. I just want to look at it, 'cause I 12 initial everything that comes through, and I don't recall 13 seeing any coats. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How many First Responders are 16 there? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's no concern of yours. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I buy coats at about $100 a 19 piece. That's 30 of them. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go on, don't listen to him. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You don't want it pulled, 22 then? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I think they've already 24 done it. It appears that way. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All in favor of the 10-27-08 150 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Any budget 6 amendments? 7 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. New year. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Late bills. We have the one 9 late bill. Copy has been furnished. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about this propaganda? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the late bill. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Did we just pay it? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we didn't. No, we didn't pay 14 it. We -- no, we handled it -- we decided to handle it as a 15 late bill. That's why we're here now on this one. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. We're there 17 now, aren't we? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. You move to approve? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Kidneys -- kidneys just 20 kicked in. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to discuss it, 23 or am I going to be the only one to discuss it, or what? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you start. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead. 10-27-08 151 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I see chickens. So, 2 personally, I -- personally, I disagree with it. I've looked 3 over the magazine and the -- all the issues and the programs 4 and classes that it offers. It's not -- it would be 5 absolutely nothing in there that any member of this Court 6 would use. It looks like to me that we pay a fee for 7 membership, and then turn around and pay fairly high rates 8 for -- very high, actually, for the classes -- individual 9 classes. However, it's one of those things that it's the 10 department's budget. She feels like that it is -- it is 11 something good for the whole county, so I'm not going to 12 argue that point. The only point I'm going to argue is the 13 $200 wall plaque. I will not vote to pay $200 for a wall 14 plaque, unless the definition of "wall plaque" has changed 15 into AR-15's or helicopters or something like that, chicken 16 farms. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I pretty much agree with 18 Commissioner Baldwin. I talked to Eva about it a little bit, 19 and I -- you know, I told her that being -- turning it down 20 originally to me made sense, because we don't generally pay 21 fees for organizations that aren't a requirement of our job. 22 As you said, for -- if that's for the training and some of 23 the classes you take, you know, that I have to leave to her 24 discretion. And if that's it, I'll have to trust that these 25 are the best ones for the training that she feels we need in 10-27-08 152 1 the county. You know, it's a -- and I just -- I'm not 2 knowledgeable one way or the other about these classes. Not 3 my business. But the -- the wall plaque, we don't need a 4 wall plaque. Unless we're required to have a wall plaque; 5 then I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that, Eva? 9 MS. HYDE: I have no idea. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want a wall plaque. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, when we talked about 12 it, and you and I talked with Eva about the same time, 13 Ms. Hyde indicated that there were residual benefits that 14 accrued to Kerr County by virtue of this membership. Can you 15 tell us what those are? 16 MS. HYDE: Yeah. There's discounts on not only 17 management training that's in the back, but also books. 18 Hastings, Barnes and Noble, rental cars, the gamut. I mean, 19 it is professional. It's not just for county government or 20 city government. It's just about anything that employees can 21 buy or use, so the County would be able to use it. All 22 employees would be able to use it. They'd have to come 23 through me, and then they get their discounts. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- if the primary 25 reason is training, I support it. If the primary reason is 10-27-08 153 1 getting discounts I don't support it. 2 MS. HYDE: This is -- this is the training. And, I 3 mean, we've talked about it. We talked about it when we were 4 doing our policy book. Part of the reason why a lot of our 5 training doesn't occur is how much it costs to send employees 6 to go get trained. So, although I understand what you're 7 saying, if you send one person to get trained, then all you 8 have to do is cite the copyright, and you can use a lot of 9 those principles yourself by pulling them up and training the 10 people within, which is what the ladies and gentlemen that we 11 talked about said they wanted to do, versus sending 20 people 12 to a training on implementing effective internal controls or 13 OSHA compliance, or FMLA. You train a trainer, and then the 14 trainer trains the employees. It's a heck of a lot cheaper. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to have multiple 16 -- you envision multiple trainers? Or someone in your 17 office? Or -- 18 MS. HYDE: Probably, to start out with, me. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And the benefit of the training you 21 would get through this program, you could then utilize to 22 spread among various departments here in Kerr County 23 government? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10-27-08 154 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just real quick, just for -- 2 so we all know what we're talking about here, select one of 3 those, any one of them, the OSHA or the -- what do you have 4 in front of you? 5 MS. HYDE: You got HRN law, FMLA complaints, 6 payroll law. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Select one. 8 MS. HYDE: For what? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of those, and tell us 10 the cost of it. 11 MS. HYDE: FMLA compliance, 199. With the 12 discount, it's 159. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And most of them -- well, 14 you got a good one there. Caught me. But you -- most of 15 them are 300, 350. 16 MS. HYDE: And those are all two- or three-day 17 classes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For two- or three-day 19 classes or whatever. It just -- and I'm not voting against 20 the thing. If it's education, it's education; I'm all for 21 it. It's just -- that just seems like real expensive stuff 22 to me, and there's nothing that this Court would use. Of 23 course, you know, they -- they mandate what classes we take 24 to make us as smart and bright as we are. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 10-27-08 155 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Also to spend money. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that's the way it is. 3 That's the way it is; I agree. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: This sounds like a wonderful 5 opportunity for me to make a 15-minute pitch for video 6 teleconferencing. And I could shorten it to about -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 15 seconds -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if I were just to have some 11 assurance from this Court that they understand how wonderful 12 video teleconferencing is for distance training, like the 13 Sheriff uses for law enforcement. If it's used for -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You think you might do this? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And it can be used for a lot 16 of different things. The training conferences is a big, big 17 piece. You avoid the travel, the hotel costs, the per diem 18 per meal, and on and on it goes. 19 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But it's coming. It's coming 21 whether you like it or not. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- do you see that this 23 helps that train that's coming? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, some of the training that may 25 be available via this program may be actual online training. 10-27-08 156 1 MS. HYDE: It's online and teleconference. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That you get a specific password or 3 code to get into so that you can take advantage of it, 4 whereas if you don't have that code or password, in terms of 5 paying them, that you can't get into it. So, I'm sure 6 there's some of that there. That's -- it's in virtually 7 every training program you see nowadays. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last question, and I don't know 9 if you know. This doesn't have any kind of impact with PAC, 10 does it, Political Action Committee? They don't give money 11 to anybody? 12 MS. HYDE: No. No. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The name looks like they may; 14 that's the reason I asked. 15 MS. HYDE: No. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure does. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure we're 18 not... 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have a motion at this 22 point? 23 THE CLERK: No. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we don't. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we pay the 10-27-08 157 1 bill, with the removal of the wall plaque for $199. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 4 indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor of 5 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have any 10 more late bills? 11 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented monthly reports 13 from Constable, Precinct 3, and Road and Bridge. Do I hear a 14 motion that those reports be approved as presented? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the reports as presented. Question or discussion 19 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 20 raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we -- 25 reports from Commissioners in connection with their liaison 10-27-08 158 1 or committee assignments? Commissioner Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple things, Judge. I'll 5 be in Austin tomorrow for an appearance before the water -- 6 Texas Water Development Board for the Center Point project. 7 First a meeting of the finance committee, TWDB, at 9:30, 8 followed by the board meeting. We're listed as a consent 9 item on the board agenda, but if there's any fireworks, that 10 might come out of questions that sidetrack this or derail it 11 coming from the finance committee, so I'll be going up there 12 for that. U.G.R.A. is sending its public relations young 13 lady up, and she'll ride up with me to represent U.G.R.A. On 14 the job scene, Kerr County's unemployment rate in September 15 increased; it is now 4.5 percent, up a couple ticks from 16 August. It was 4.3. We're still behind the 12-county region 17 unemployment rate of 5 percent. I'll have something on our 18 next agenda having to do with census track population 19 estimates and how that applies to Kerr County, what we may or 20 may not want to do with it. But just F.Y.I., there are ten 21 census tracks -- I think it's ten. One, two, three -- nine 22 census tracks in Kerr County. And the '07 population 23 estimates of those tracks is 47,529. A census track's 24 different than a census block. And so we'll talk more about 25 that at our next court meeting; I'll have it on the agenda. 10-27-08 159 1 And, finally -- two other items. There -- I think 2 I mentioned to the Court on one other occasion that at the 3 recommendation of the Texas Department of Transportation, 4 there is going to now be formed a rural planning 5 organization. Had the opportunity to meet the new district 6 engineer for TexDOT, great big fellow named Medina, and he is 7 a major proponent of this, along with all the rest of TexDOT. 8 This gives you a little outline of what the objectives are 9 and so forth and so on, but it has to do with our planning -- 10 transportation planning for the rural counties that surround 11 Bexar County. And, finally, there is a legislative forum 12 that will be in New Braunfels October 30, at 1:30 p.m., and 13 topics of discussion will be transportation, appraisal 14 districts, land use authority, homeland security, TexDOT 15 sunset review, property tax, revenue caps, and water. Pretty 16 good agenda. That's it, Judge. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two items. Region J meeting 19 this week in Del Rio Thursday. Anyone that wants to head 20 down that way, I'll be going. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Love to go, but I'm going to 23 be in San Antonio. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And last, Friday I met in 25 Austin on some of the county-to-county stuff with -- looking 10-27-08 160 1 at some actual legislation. Jim Allison was there, Paul Sugg 2 was there, and Claudia Russell from Bickerstaff was also 3 there. We have -- there are -- looks like two bills that 4 have been written. I will -- I have been singled out now to 5 go meet with the homebuilders association. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lucky you. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then plead with 8 Representative Hilderbran and try to get him to sponsor the 9 bill. And if we get -- I told them that wouldn't happen till 10 we get the homebuilders on board. And it may happen without 11 that, but anyway, I'm working on those two items. And the 12 bills are -- I'll bring them back, I mean, obviously, before 13 we go much further. We have another meeting the 19th, so 14 probably the first meeting of September (sic) I'll have those 15 on the agenda. But they're -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: First meeting in September? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: November. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You are behind. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I am behind. Some days I 21 feel like I'm in September. Basically, it's going to be 22 divided into fixing lots of problems. Little minor problems, 23 for the most part; some major things with 232 currently, and 24 then they're looking at impact fees, land use type stuff, and 25 then there's -- what's the other one? Anyway, three items, 10-27-08 161 1 and how you go in and change them. And they -- all of the -- 2 I'm not sure that I'm in favor of all these things, but 3 they're all done -- we left it with a county option, some 4 kind of a menu, the way the bill was drafted, so you can pick 5 and choose if you want any or none of them, and it will be 6 for the 15 hill country counties. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: None are mandatory? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None of it's mandatory. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And you'll just have an entire menu 10 of various land use functions? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not a whole lot. This 12 will be -- like, if you want impact fees, you would adopt the 13 impact -- the section of the current state law that applies 14 to municipalities. You go into that and change it. So, 15 those 15 counties can do it, and if they do choose it, then 16 that's how you do it, 'cause it's already written down. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- no one's agreeing 19 to do anything. It's all going to be on either a vote -- a 20 petition for the people that make it to get on the ballot, 21 the Court put can it on a ballot, or the Court can decide to 22 do it by themselves. That's where it is right now. You 23 know, and it's still up in the air. That's it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You got anything for us, 25 Commissioner? 10-27-08 162 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from elected 3 officials or department heads? I should have known. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let her go first. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, first. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no. 8 MS. HARGIS: Mine's pretty quick. I just want to 9 make -- I did spend last week at the auditors' conference, 10 and they had a Representative Hill that spoke to us about the 11 revenue caps. And I brought back a whole packet that I would 12 like for y'all to look at. And they recommended that we put 13 together a factual statement if we know our local 14 representative and get with them, because they feel -- this 15 Representative Hill feels like this is one of the worst bills 16 we'll ever do if we try to pass this revenue cap, and he 17 feels like we need to attack it at the local level, and so 18 they gave us a whole packet on it, and I'd like to provide 19 that to you y'all and any representative that you know. So, 20 they say for us to give them facts, and so maybe we can come 21 up with a fact statement that you can present to the local 22 state reps, and so -- and the senators so that we have a 23 voice, because they're -- they're going to do something, they 24 told us, because they feel like the people want something, 25 but we certainly don't want them to do something that's going 10-27-08 163 1 to be ingrained for the future. So, anyway, I have the 2 packet, and I'll -- they only gave us one, but I'll pass it 3 around to each of you. It has brochures on it, what's going 4 to happen, the whole bit. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The facts that you're talking about 6 are dollars and cents type facts? 7 MS. HARGIS: How it would actually affect us. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MS. HARGIS: So that they feel that a personal 10 relationship -- at least our representative, a personal 11 relationship of what would happen in our county. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He makes -- 13 MS. HARGIS: How it would affect us for the future. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He makes a good 15 presentation, doesn't he? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes, he does. He's an excellent 17 speaker. I understand he's retiring. That's what I 18 understand. But he said he's never been so passionate about 19 anything in his whole term, and I think he's been there 20 20-plus years. And he said this -- he feels this will be the 21 worst bill we've ever passed in the state of Texas if it gets 22 through. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Privately, he'll tell you to 24 take your state rep out behind the shed. That's how he 25 recommends to deal with it. 10-27-08 164 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At our meeting Friday, Jim 2 Allison mentioned that his number-one marching order is to -- 3 is that. And -- but the good news was that it looks like the 4 county-to-county thing is probably number two or number three 5 on his marching orders to get done. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lots of support statewide. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, 20 words or less. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't do it that quick. But 12 real quick, if you remember, during the budget process we 13 talked about what it was going to cost to update the county 14 law enforcement radios themselves; not the system, but just 15 the radios, about 180,000. So, we did apply for, through 16 AACOG, a grant for half of that amount, 90,000. I was 17 advised last week that that was approved, and is going up to 18 the governor. So, I don't know when we'll get the final word 19 or the actual money, but that -- our 90,000 was approved to 20 help pay for half of those radios, anyhow. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: With the condition that we match it? 22 Or can you start spending the -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No matching, no nothing on it; 24 it's a total deal. And next year we'll apply for the second 25 half. 10-27-08 165 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say, why didn't 2 you ask for all of it? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was limited funds; I 4 didn't want to jeopardize it, 'cause they had a lot of other 5 agencies asking for funds. I didn't want to jeopardize us by 6 asking for too much at one time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, finally you bring us some good 8 news. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to do a -- a press 10 release when that comes. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Once I actually see the check, 12 I'll be more than happy to do it. I still want to see the 13 check. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get a picture of the check. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I want to see it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With your representative from 17 AACOG. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, definitely. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll hear from the 20 governor next? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any more reports from elected 23 officials or department heads? Okay. Anybody else? Last 24 chance. We're adjourned. 25 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:42 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 10-27-08 166 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of October, 8 2008. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10-27-08