1 2 3 4 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 5 and 6 KERRVILLE CITY COUNCIL 7 Joint Meeting 8 Monday, December 15, 2008 9 9:00 a.m. 10 Upper Guadalupe River Authority 11 Lecture Hall 12 125 Lehmann Drive 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 19 Kerr County Commissioners Court: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 20 H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 21 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 22 23 Kerrville City Council: T. SCOTT GROSS, Mayor Pro Tem 24 R. BRUCE MOTHERAL, Councilperson, Place 1 MACK HAMILTON, Councilperson, Place 2 25 CHUCK COLEMAN, Councilperson, Place 4 ABSENT: TODD BOCK, Mayor 2 1 I N D E X December 15, 2008 2 PAGE 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on joint agreement between Kerr County and the 4 City of Kerrville with the Normandy Group for governmental relations assistance to obtain 5 federal government funding or other assistance for economic development projects, and projects, 6 installations, infrastructure and/or facilities needs for Kerrville and Kerr County 3 7 8 --- Adjourned 55 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-15-08 jcc 3 1 On Monday, December 15, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a joint 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court and Kerrville 3 City Council was held in the U.G.R.A. Lecture Hall, 125 4 Lehmann Drive, Kerrville, Texas, and the following 5 proceedings were had in open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court to order for this joint meeting with the 9 Kerrville City Council posted and scheduled for this date and 10 time, Monday, December 15, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is a bit past 11 that time now. Councilman? 12 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Well, I suppose one of us -- 13 Chuck, you're the senior council member. Why don't you call 14 it? 15 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Sure. I should have paid more 16 attention. (Laughter.) On today's date, Monday, 17 December 15, 2008, at 9 o'clock, here in the U.G.R.A. Lecture 18 Hall, I hereby call the City Council to order. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the single agenda item on the 20 meeting, and I think they're -- they're identical items, 21 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on a joint 22 agreement between Kerr County and the City of Kerrville with 23 the Normandy Group for governmental relations assistance to 24 obtain federal government funding or other assistance for 25 economic development projects, and projects, installations, 12-15-08 jcc 4 1 infrastructure and/or facilities needs for Kerrville and Kerr 2 County. Want me to go ahead and proceed, Chuck? 3 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Sure, absolutely. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We have with us today former 5 Congressman Henry Bonilla, who was a member of Congress, I 6 believe, 14 years. Isn't that right, Henry? 7 MR. BONILLA: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And very ably represented Kerr 9 County when Kerr County was in his district, and we're 10 grateful for his service that he provided at that time. 11 Mr. Bonilla is a principal in the Normandy Group, which is 12 a -- a government relations firm in Washington, D.C. And 13 when we were in Washington recently as part of an economic 14 development team that has been going up there on an annual 15 basis, Guy Overby was there, Brian Bondy was, Mayor Bock was 16 there, myself, and I believe Sue Tiemann, who was the 17 chairman of the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. We had 18 occasion to -- to talk with Mr. Bonilla and one of his 19 associates about the possibility of obtaining their 20 assistance -- the Normandy Group's assistance with projects 21 that might benefit from federal funding here in Kerrville and 22 Kerr County. And we -- I discussed this with the mayor, and 23 we put this meeting together today rather -- rather quickly 24 for two reasons. Number one, the new Congress will be 25 convening next month, and things are already being put into 12-15-08 jcc 5 1 place. And secondly, former Congressman Bonilla was able to 2 be with us here today, whereas he would not be, I understand, 3 until sometime after the first of the year, and I know his 4 schedule's going to be very, very heavily impacted after the 5 convening of Congress. So, the -- the purpose of the meeting 6 today is to have a presentation by the former congressman 7 with regard to the services that he may be able to provide to 8 the City and the County in obtaining maximum federal funding 9 or other assistance for any projects that are in Kerrville 10 and Kerr County area. Welcome. Glad to have you here. 11 MR. BONILLA: Thank you, Judge. Shall I go ahead 12 and -- all right. Well, first let me thank y'all for putting 13 this meeting together on such short notice. I remember I was 14 in sitting in my office last week. Guy called me and said, 15 "When can you come down here?" And I looked at the calendar. 16 I said, "Man, Christmas is the week after next, but we're 17 going to figure this out," and we did, on -- on very short 18 notice. I was very fortunate to have gotten to know some of 19 you in a couple of years that I did have you in my 20 congressional district. And then who would have thought that 21 the U.S. Supreme Court would then take Kerr County and 22 Kerrville away, as well as my other hill country counties, in 23 a controversial decision. It's all water under the bridge. 24 And so now I've been -- I lost a special election; I've been 25 out office now for going on two years. And as the Judge 12-15-08 jcc 6 1 said, I'm a partner with the Normandy Group, a government 2 relations firm. It's a group of people that I worked with 3 very closely when I was in office. And just a little 4 background, because it's relevant to the points that I want 5 to make about communities like Kerrville and Kerr County 6 retaining government relations firms like the Normandy Group. 7 When I first was elected, I had never even run for 8 student council before, so I had very little knowledge of the 9 governmental culture in Washington until I had been there -- 10 gotten there and been there for a while. And then -- you 11 know, on any given day, you very quickly, as a member of 12 Congress or a member of the U.S. Senate, understand that your 13 day's broken down into about 20-minute periods or 30-minute 14 periods where you're meeting with -- you might be meeting 15 with representatives from your communities along the border, 16 or you might be meeting with hospital representatives or 17 county judges from your district. In my case, I had over 100 18 cities and towns in my area, or people from your schools or 19 people with the border patrol or other federal issues, trade 20 issues, environmental issues, so -- and not to mention the 21 political things that you have to be involved with every day. 22 So, every 30-minute period of the day is -- it is a critical 23 meeting that you better be an expert on, and you and your 24 staff work on pretty hard. 25 And I say that because as I moved along through the 12-15-08 jcc 7 1 years, I -- I discovered that people would -- would have also 2 associated with some of these meetings a government relations 3 firm that helped make sure that those issues didn't -- not 4 that the member of Congress would ever disregard what their 5 constituents were wanting them to do, but you can only do so 6 many things in any given day, and prioritize so many things 7 on any given day. So, as you move through the -- through the 8 calendar, you know, whether it's City of Laredo that was in 9 my area during the 90's, or whether it was City of San 10 Antonio, City Public Services, San Antonio Water System, 11 Laredo, Texas A & M, Texas Tech, Texas State system, Santa 12 Rosa Hospital, U.S.A.A., all of them, you find -- I learned 13 over the years they retain government relations firms to make 14 sure that they -- that nothing gets overlooked in terms of 15 something that may be important to them up in Washington. 16 So, as the years moved on, I realized the value 17 that these firms bring to these people, and if they didn't 18 exist and didn't bring value, they wouldn't exist for the 19 long-term, because they're businesses -- we are businesses 20 like anybody else, and if people don't feel like they're 21 getting their money's worth for what they're putting into 22 your firm, they're not going to keep you. So, we -- we now 23 are what amounts to a congressional office in the private 24 sector. And you all have a great member of Congress that 25 represents your needs, and -- but, again, if you walk in his 12-15-08 jcc 8 1 shoes, as you would have in mine over the years, you want to 2 do everything you possibly can to help your communities, but 3 sometimes that help that comes from government relations 4 firms can make or break a project that gets done. 5 And in Congress, there are people -- for example, 6 Lamar Smith is on the judiciary committee; he works very hard 7 on that. I have a history on the appropriations committee 8 for 14 years, where I still have most of the contacts 9 there -- well, probably 90 percent of the people that I 10 worked with, I see them all the time, and I'm able to 11 bird-dog issues for clients that they bring forward and make 12 sure that they get the attention that they need. We don't 13 always succeed; I'm not saying that. Didn't always succeed 14 when I was in office on projects, but you just want to make 15 sure that you get the best opportunity that you possibly can. 16 And that's how -- that's why Guy and I, in the beginning, and 17 then the Judge and the mayor came up and we -- we talked 18 about this, and progressed, I think, nicely over the last few 19 months to see if, in fact, you all want to do this. 20 This year coming up, '09, is going to present some 21 incredible opportunities, not just for this community, but 22 for communities all across the country. You've probably seen 23 in the news this new stimulus plan that the new 24 administration wants to implement pretty quickly for 25 transportation projects, many of them that are, quote, 12-15-08 jcc 9 1 "shovel-ready." Ready to go, don't have to go through 2 another year or two of environmental studies or any kind of 3 controversy in communities. If they're ready, those are the 4 kind of things that -- that they'll want to try to get on the 5 list as quickly as possible. So, some -- some are 6 speculating that that bill could be done very quickly in 7 January or February, to the tune of about $600 billion. Now, 8 that price tag is too big; that's another discussion that 9 some Americans might have as to whether or not it's too big, 10 but the fact of the matter is, it's on track to more than 11 likely get done. 12 The other opportunity, as we've spoken before in 13 our meetings, is the transportation bill, which is aside from 14 the one I just mentioned, that gets renewed every five or six 15 years for routine projects that get funded in communities all 16 across America. That is -- so that's another huge 17 opportunity that happens to be coming due probably in late 18 '09. It may get pushed into -- into 2010, but this plan is 19 to work on that now, and it might be more significant because 20 of the idea now that they want to get more -- "they" meaning 21 Washington, wants to get more projects funded and people back 22 to work. I mean, i.e., maybe a little bit like the old 23 F.D.R. public works programs, because of the difficult 24 economic situation that we face. And then, of course, not 25 any less significant is the routine, regular annual 12-15-08 jcc 10 1 appropriations process that -- that goes through everything 2 that is federally funded, from agriculture to health 3 programs, veterans benefits, and all of those things that -- 4 that go through the regular process, and there is an 5 expectation that, unlike last year, when this process reached 6 -- hit a brick wall, except for defense issues, that this -- 7 this is going to move forward this year under the new 8 administration and the new Congress. 9 So, all of those -- those big three big 10 opportunities, the stimulus plan coming up early part of the 11 year, the transportation program, regular bill that's coming 12 up this year, and the regular appropriation process, are 13 huge. And Kerrville and Kerr County, you know, ought to be 14 doing everything it possibly can. This is a community 15 that -- you know, we were talking to a couple of people on 16 the way in, and that we have -- that are from this part of 17 the state. They've just been amazed at the incredible growth 18 that has -- has occurred in this part of the state since we 19 were kids. And -- and we know that y'all are bursting at the 20 seams in many cases, and could utilize a lot of these funds. 21 So, you know, that's -- that's the long and the short of it. 22 You have some folders in front of you that have 23 some background on our firm. We're small. There are only 24 eight people in our office. There are firms that -- 25 government relations firms come in all shapes and sizes. It 12-15-08 jcc 11 1 goes from one person to maybe 200 people in an office, some 2 of the big ones that, you know, they do everything; they do 3 legal work and all kinds of -- of different aspects of what 4 firms like this offer. And -- but y'all see that -- if you 5 read the pamphlet, you'll see the background. We have these 6 people that have been -- either had executive branch 7 experience or Capitol Hill experience, working in the 8 trenches in Congress, and in accomplishing. And that's why I 9 became close to these people over the years, and because they 10 were reputable and -- and produced results. It also 11 includes, as I think I mentioned earlier, a list of all of 12 the other clients that we currently have. 13 This is also available on the web -- on the web 14 site -- on our web site, and every business -- all the 15 business we conduct is all public knowledge. You know, 16 retainers that we receive are on the web site. They're 17 publicly reportable. We have to report everything we -- 18 every client, every dime that we get, and that has to be 19 reported publicly so that everybody knows. It's all there 20 for anyone to read it. So, that's kind of the long and the 21 short of it, Judge, and I'm more than happy to answer any 22 questions at all. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's just throw it open here, 24 and -- 25 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Judge, before we get started, 12-15-08 jcc 12 1 I'll turn over my gavel to our Mayor Pro Tem, Scott Gross. 2 COUNCILMAN GROSS: For what? 3 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: To conduct the meeting. Todd 4 is not here yet. He may come in later. 5 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Have you called us to order? 6 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Yes. We're good to go. 7 COUNCILMAN GROSS: I'm happy. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Everything's cool with you, huh? 9 COUNCILMAN GROSS: I'm easy. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question, Congressman. You 12 termed it "government relations" firm, but I would think 13 that's a lobbyist. 14 MR. BONILLA: They're interchangeable. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Just saying, like -- I 16 thought they were. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't 17 -- you weren't saying something that I didn't fully 18 understand. I think the other question I had, the list you 19 provided, are those all the Texas clients y'all have? 20 MR. BONILLA: No, that's A-to-Z, top to bottom. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all the names. I guess 22 the other question, I mean, the Commissioners Court went 23 through a -- Friday? Friday, we had a meeting, went through 24 kind of a list of types of projects. Did we -- do we have a 25 copy of that with us, or has the Congressman seen our list? 12-15-08 jcc 13 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, he has not. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We have a list, and I'll 3 just summarize. We had transportation, being road 4 extensions, bridges, things like that. We had other 5 infrastructure, such as wastewater and drinking water 6 projects. We even had some off-channel reservoir type 7 projects. We had airport -- pretty much the entire 10-year 8 plan for the airport on our list. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Volunteer fire department. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Volunteer fire department. We 11 had a whole host of things. How do we go through a list, I 12 guess, if we try to hire your firm, and kind of decide what 13 needs to be on it and what doesn't need to be on it? Or how 14 does the process work? 15 MR. BONILLA: Well, if you chose to retain us here, 16 what we would do -- there's a young lady that a couple folks 17 here have already met in my office. Her name is Christine 18 Pellerin, and she is -- she used to work at my congressional 19 office years ago in the appropriations process, and knows how 20 to get in the weeds, and can take a project and go, "Well, 21 this one will go better in this bill; this might go better 22 over here." And so what we would do is do a very intense, 23 probably -- maybe more than a day; we'd want to come down 24 here and go over these -- all of these lists. And she would 25 get here, and her hair would be messed up, and she would just 12-15-08 jcc 14 1 be, you know, shuffling and moving and trying to figure out. 2 Both of us would do that, and we would -- we would see which 3 ones we want to prioritize in each of the three major topics 4 that I just outlined, those transportation, stimulus, and 5 appropriations process. 6 So, that's how we would go to work. That's the 7 first thing we would do. Then we would take those, as we 8 have done for other clients, and we -- and we have to do -- 9 we do the -- we get in the trenches on this, because House 10 offices and Senate offices, oftentimes they don't have the 11 ability to do it. And there are specific forms that have to 12 be filled out, and they're like filling out a college 13 application process or law school application, and you've got 14 to cross the T's and dot the I's and talk about history, and 15 make sure they're done right. And if they're not -- they're 16 not done right, the House office or Senate offices will just 17 throw them back at you, and -- you know, and say -- it's a 18 headache. It's like taking a final exam on every project. 19 So, that's the kind of thing that we would -- we would 20 baby-sit those things as they move through the system. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Congressman, do you see the 22 City and the County as one client or two clients? 23 MR. BONILLA: I honestly would see it however you 24 wanted us to see it. And I don't know what your mechanism 25 would be for retaining us, whether it would be as a group, 12-15-08 jcc 15 1 whether it would be the economic foundation as well. So, 2 everybody does it different. Everybody -- you can be 3 creative. A lot of people do this different. We had one 4 client where -- it was a school, and they were out of -- they 5 were out -- this was a different situation, but they were out 6 of their regular budgeting funds for the year, so they got a 7 donor to say, "Hey, can you donate this money so that we can 8 do this?" And all above the table and by the book, and -- 9 but, so you can fund it 50/50, County/City, and then you tell 10 us who's going to be the boss in terms of who we go through. 11 Do we go through the Judge's office? Do we go through the 12 Mayor's office? Do we go through Guy? Do we -- you know, 13 whatever y'all want to do. But we would probably need to 14 have one chief, versus two or three people telling us that, 15 "Well, we ought to prioritize this or that." Frankly, I'm 16 impressed that cities and counties don't always get along 17 this well. Over the years, I have seen some that -- I've 18 seen some that almost want to get physical with each other, 19 and I'm not kidding. There's a lot of -- a lot of -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The day's early here. 21 (Laughter.) 22 MR. BONILLA: So -- but, you know, they've sat at 23 the same table with me. So -- regular occasion. 24 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: You made it clear the best 25 hope was for transportation projects that have the 12-15-08 jcc 16 1 engineering already done. 2 MR. BONILLA: That's with the first stimulus bill, 3 yes, that are ready to go. And let me also make it clear 4 that TexDOT needs to be part of this on transportation 5 issues. They need to be part. They need to be on the team. 6 Because, historically, in fact, we wouldn't even pursue it, 7 and we would raise a red flag on anything that was not TexDOT 8 approved, because that could become very controversial if 9 it's not something that they have done. They can -- 'cause 10 they have a master plan. And I did some things when I was in 11 office that were not approved by them, and I wish I hadn't, 12 because they became red flags. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the -- kind of to follow 14 up on what Mack said, one of the areas that we have projects 15 that kind of have been done is airport, 'cause airport -- we 16 have to go through a process and have a -- basically a 17 10-year plan funding projects. So, what could happen is 18 those projects could be escalated and maybe additional 19 funding coming? Most of those funds are 90/10 running 20 through TexDOT Aviation. Is there a chance that -- that 21 greater than 90/10 funds could come through to get these 22 things done quicker? Because from our standpoint, like, if 23 there's a match, that puts a big hurdle for us to get over, 24 even if it's just 10 percent, some of these projects. 25 MR. BONILLA: On this stimulus plan -- and, again, 12-15-08 jcc 17 1 there's -- this is what the buzz is right now. And things 2 could change, but we do expect this to move forward, the 3 stimulus plan, early part of the year, is that in many cases, 4 they would be fully funded, is what we're hearing, to make it 5 easier. 'Cause there's an understanding that local 6 communities just don't have a lot of the matching funds that 7 they may have had five years ago with budgets that are being 8 cut back. 9 COUNCILMAN GROSS: I don't have a question, but I 10 do have a comment, and that is, I know the money's -- the 11 money's there. I know it's going to be spent. It's going to 12 be spent by somebody. And I know that if we spent it, we'd 13 be good stewards of it. Not necessarily that somebody else 14 wouldn't be, but I know that we would be, so I don't have any 15 problem with that. But if we were to make a -- come to an 16 agreement, I would feel very -- I feel sort of like you, when 17 you say you didn't want to use the word lobbyist, so -- 18 didn't feel good on our tongues. Doesn't feel good on my 19 tongue either -- pardon me. Well, it just doesn't seem 20 right. You know, citizens ought to be able to approach their 21 government right up front. So, I'm thinking it's sort of 22 like those fundraisers that call you from Nebraska, want you 23 to help out the Texas law enforcement guys. They have no 24 relationship. If we were to do this, I would want us to be 25 very involved as -- as individual bodies. I wouldn't want to 12-15-08 jcc 18 1 just say, "Go do our dirty work." 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By saying it, you mean, like, 3 possibly -- well, just communicate, visit with our own 4 representatives, and stay involved in that manner? 5 COUNCILMAN GROSS: I think pack up the Judge and 6 the mayor and send them somewhere. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Permanently? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You've been doing that for three 9 years, Scott, and the plan is to continue. 10 MR. BONILLA: It's busy work. And, again, it's all 11 public; all of these things that I'm talking about are. The 12 forms that we fill out, the visits that we have, are all 13 public knowledge. There's nothing done behind the scenes 14 or -- I mean, I might have conversations with -- with people 15 that are going to be -- because we're not required to report 16 every last comment that I made to a clerk on a committee 17 because I know them, or to a member of Congress who might be 18 on a committee to try to put a project that's on the bottom 19 of the list to the top of the list. But for the most part, 20 everything's out there for everyone to review. 21 COUNCILMAN GROSS: And no disrespect intended 22 whatsoever, -- 23 MR. BONILLA: And none taken. 24 COUNCILMAN GROSS: -- but the general public has a 25 problem with the term "lobbyist." 12-15-08 jcc 19 1 MR. BONILLA: No question. My former chief of 2 staff was a great guy. Back in the late '90's, he came on as 3 the son of a military officer, very -- just a good family in 4 San Antonio. He came home one day, and his mom asked him, 5 "Where are you going?" And he said, "I'm going to play golf 6 with a lobbyist." And they just froze in their tracks and 7 said, "You know lobbyists?" And so there's -- there's the 8 connotation that goes with the word. Everyone understands 9 that it's a -- it has gotten a bad rap. And, you know, there 10 are a lot of reasons I guess you could point to as to why. 11 Students used to come visit me when I was still in office, 12 and I was not, obviously, a lobbyist when I was in office, 13 but they would talk about that just like you're bringing up 14 right now. And I'd say, "Well, what do your parents do? 15 They said, "Well, they're farmers." I said, "Well, you guys 16 have a big lobbyist in Washington and Austin now." I said, 17 "What do your parents do?" "Well, they're pharmacists." 18 "Oh, man," I said, "y'all have lobbyists in Washington and 19 Austin, too. What do your parents do?" "They're school 20 teachers." Big time. "What do your parents do?" "They work 21 for U.S.A.A." "Well, you've got a big lobbying office for 22 Austin and Washington, too." And it -- the list goes on and 23 on. So, it's always like we -- we like ours, but we don't 24 like anyone else's. But I clearly understand the 25 connotation, and perception is a problem that we all have to 12-15-08 jcc 20 1 deal with. 2 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: While we're in the political 3 realm, let me ask another question. Do you guys -- does 4 Normandy Group have the ability to work effectively with both 5 Republicans and Democrats? 6 MR. BONILLA: Yes. 7 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Is that an issue at all? 8 MR. BONILLA: No, it's not an issue. It might be 9 on a rare occasion, but our firm cannot exist as a long-term 10 government relations firm in Washington if you're just 11 working one side. So, we have -- we do have friends on both 12 sides, and as an aside from what we do that I've explained to 13 you already, we host fundraising events -- political events 14 for members on both sides, Senators and House members. So, 15 if you look at our list of ones we host, probably a little 16 more Republican, because we have that history. But, you 17 know, we've -- people like Ciro Rodriguez and Senator Ken 18 Salazar, and the new member from Arizona. I mean, the list 19 goes on and on. Lloyd Doggett in Austin is one that we do. 20 So -- 21 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: What emphasis do you think 22 will be placed by the new administration on local 23 unemployment? 24 MR. BONILLA: On local -- 25 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Unemployment, and handing out 12-15-08 jcc 21 1 funds like this. 2 MR. BONILLA: I don't -- cannot speculate on that 3 at this point. I would just be guessing. 4 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: One would assume the purpose 5 is to put people to work. 6 MR. BONILLA: Correct. 7 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: And if they're all employed 8 already, it would be hard to do. 9 MR. BONILLA: Well, one of the ideas behind, I 10 think, the stimulus plan that they're all talking about is to 11 get people back to work in some of these communities that 12 have been hit harder; frankly, a lot harder than the hill 13 country has been hit. And -- 14 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: That's the point. I think 15 we're in a poor position relative to, say, Detroit. Or 16 Dearborn. 17 MR. BONILLA: Those are different worlds. 18 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Yeah. 19 MR. BONILLA: Let's feel blessed that we are where 20 we are. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Guy, you had a comment? 22 MR. OVERBY: Yes. And just for the record, Guy 23 Overby with the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. I just 24 appreciate, again, Council and Commissioners today to be 25 here, and just like to mention here just for the record that 12-15-08 jcc 22 1 Henry, of course, when he was our former congressman here, 2 Henry was very influential. He was the chairman of the 3 appropriations of agricultural committee at that time, and 4 Henry was very helpful in helping us get the feasibility 5 study off the ground for the U.S.D.A. facility, the 6 Knipling-Bush laboratory here in Kerrville, and also helped 7 when the groundwork for the design and engineering process 8 was put in too, and was very influential in that. I know, in 9 speaking and talking with Henry on the phone, and through our 10 meetings up in Washington, D.C., of course, that that project 11 is moving along. And I think just -- you know, just for the 12 record, I -- just to state again, that project is moving 13 forward and finding the construction funding, as we know, 14 even with the economic times that are -- are upon us right 15 now. 16 It would clearly be -- you know, just speaking on 17 behalf of the foundation, to have somebody who's up on the 18 hill that's trying to identify those construction funding 19 dollars out there and trying to help us move that process 20 along, he has been very helpful in that process where we have 21 come to that part. Also, Congressman Smith has been very 22 helpful; I appreciate that. And some of our other 23 conversations that we had with Henry when we visited in 24 Washington, D.C. this past October, and it's 2009, as we 25 start talking about future projects. And, Commissioner Letz, 12-15-08 jcc 23 1 you made a comment about all the comments that the -- 2 identifying projects. One thing we talk about is finding 3 infrastructure dollars and those type of things to help with 4 downtown and our business districts, as those type of things 5 are important. And you had talked about some of those things 6 that might be able to help us with that, too. So, I'm just 7 saying that just for the -- you know, his comments and things 8 and helping us in that nature could be very beneficial to 9 Kerrville and Kerr County. I appreciate what you do. 10 MR. BONILLA: And we would be -- and Guy knows 11 this, 'cause we've talked about it. We would be a little bit 12 behind the eight ball. We'd have to get pretty intense as 13 quickly as we could in January for this first stimulus 14 package, because the wheels are already turning on that. 15 And -- and even beyond what you all decide this week or 16 today, I would suggest trying to get those things together, 17 and at the very least, trying to package them and get them to 18 your Senate and Congressional office A.S.A.P. 19 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Is there a practicable 20 limitation? If -- say we came up with 15 super projects. Is 21 there a practicable limitation that we might expect to see? 22 Is there a dollar limit or a project limit? 23 MR. BONILLA: I don't -- you're not going to get 24 all 15. You might get two or three of them right off the 25 bat. You might -- it would all depend on how hard the 12-15-08 jcc 24 1 Senators and your House member would want to push them. And, 2 you know, they're looking at the whole state. The member of 3 Congress is looking at however many counties he has, so 4 that's first and foremost. We have to -- we would work to 5 get them committed in writing to pushing these 15 projects. 6 We would probably want to keep to it, realistically, to about 7 half a dozen, because communities that do that -- 8 historically, it's just easier to manage when a community 9 comes in and says, "Look, we'd love to have all these, but 10 let me just tell you what we really need at the top of the 11 list." 12 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Prioritize. 13 MR. BONILLA: Right, prioritized list. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You also have to be realistic 15 about what funding is available -- 16 MR. BONILLA: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for various projects. No 18 point in asking for things that you feel like you're not 19 going to have a chance to -- to get funded. 20 MR. BONILLA: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those are -- you know, we all 22 have a wish list of what we'd like to have and what would be 23 good for the community to probably identify seven, eight 24 million dollars worth of things we'd like to have, but 25 realistically, we have to lower our sights a little and I 12-15-08 jcc 25 1 believe prioritize if we decide to do this. 2 MR. BONILLA: What I forgot to bring with me this 3 morning, there are a couple of pages that I gave to the Judge 4 and to Guy and the mayor about -- on a comparable client that 5 we have had for a year or two now, and how much we have been 6 able to help them with, and it was significant. And I don't 7 want to quote the figure, but you should have it in writing 8 as part of the record. And there are no guarantees. 9 MR. OVERBY: That's right. 10 MR. BONILLA: I want to make that clear. But I 11 also make it clear that if it wasn't for the success that we 12 have had overall, and the firms comparable to ours have had, 13 we wouldn't continue to have -- I'm speaking as a culture 14 now -- wouldn't be continuing to have people on retainer like 15 we have. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Congressman, I think my 17 recollection -- 18 MR. BONILLA: Not going to just throw money out the 19 window, that's for sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The fee that I think you 21 presented originally, I think, was 10,000 a month, $120,000 a 22 year. Is that a -- a standard fee, like, for all your -- the 23 clients y'all have, or is it -- do you kind of look at size? 24 You know, how do you determine that? 25 MR. BONILLA: It's subjective. Some of our clients 12-15-08 jcc 26 1 pay a lot more, and some of them pay a little bit less, but 2 we don't do as much for them. And all clients are different. 3 Some of them -- some of them don't want -- aren't about 4 federal funding at all. In some cases, they -- they might 5 want me to help them with a member of Congress that I know. 6 You know, "Can you -- can I get an appointment with this 7 person from Chicago that you might know?" Or, "Can you come 8 to this dinner with the C.E.O. and attend these events?" So 9 that's a different situation than what we're talking about 10 here, so the fees vary quite a bit. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess as a follow-up to that, 12 we talked so far about a procedure for one year. My -- 13 intuitively, it would seem to me that if we're going to make 14 this kind of a commitment, we almost need to commit for more 15 than a year, because Washington doesn't move that quickly a 16 lot of times. How long of a period to really get a return? 17 What do we need to -- 18 MR. BONILLA: Well, we would hope that it would be 19 in one year, but -- but you are actually wise to suggest 20 that, because some people who have been doing this for some 21 time now do it that way, because they understand it's a 22 long-term thing. It's not -- you know, if you don't see 23 anything in your hand in 90 days, that doesn't mean you're 24 not going to be successful at this on the long-term. So, 25 that is what people who have had longer relationships and 12-15-08 jcc 27 1 experience with government relations firms generally do that. 2 They do longer term -- longer contracts. 3 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Do you have any 4 performance-based or contingency contracts? 5 MR. BONILLA: We have one that exists, although we 6 can't -- those are difficult, because you have to absolutely 7 -- we cannot receive -- let's say we helped you get funding 8 for a road project or airport project. We cannot be paid 9 from those funds legally, so those do get sticky, and we have 10 to -- you have to make sure you jump through all the right 11 hoops. So, if anybody comes along later and says, "Well, 12 you're getting federal funding; it's going right back to a 13 lobbying firm," I mean, that's something we like to stay away 14 from if possible. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I know you have mentioned, 16 Congressman, in our discussions, that, you know, obviously, 17 you look at the risks, you look at the rewards, and that's 18 what you encourage, in fact. And if you're not earning your 19 keep, you ought not stay on board. I may have mentioned to 20 some of the members of the Court that I believe you've 21 indicated to us that that's one of the things you tell 22 prospective clients, and to-date, at least as of our last 23 conversation, you said that you've signed -- signed a lot up, 24 but you haven't been fired on any, which is -- which is good 25 news. Now, I -- I agendaed this item as a joint agreement 12-15-08 jcc 28 1 between both Kerr County and the City of Kerrville. My 2 feeling is, what's good for the City's good for the County 3 and vice-versa, so I saw it as another way to obtain 4 efficiency for both of us in -- in bringing it forward this 5 way. There's another individual here that I've done a lot of 6 work with on some of the things that I've been involved that 7 works with subjects that are near and dear to my heart, and 8 that's juvenile justice and the youth. Dr. Bill Blackburn, 9 who has had a lot of involvement, said that he'd like to make 10 a few comments here this morning. I'd like to give him an 11 opportunity to do that. 12 MR. BLACKBURN: I would just like to say to you 13 that as you consider federal funding and other funding, to 14 keep in mind that -- the needs of youth here, which I know 15 you are. But I see some opportunities, some things from the 16 Justice Department, some from Health and Human Services, 17 that, if accessed, could potentially make a real difference 18 with youth here. And all of you know, we've got lots of good 19 youth here, but we've got some real issues that need to be 20 faced, too. And some of that has to do with prevention from 21 getting -- some of those kids getting into the juvenile 22 justice system. And I see both City and County potentially 23 playing a real role in that, along with the churches, the 24 nonprofits, and the schools. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Dr. Bill. Any more 12-15-08 jcc 29 1 questions? Comments? 2 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: You had mentioned 3 prioritizing from the standpoint of -- transportation was 4 number one. What is the next level, or what are the 5 priorities most likely to get funded in this immediate term? 6 MR. BONILLA: Well, that's the general, overall 7 label, transportation. Because there's just a feeling that 8 those -- those are the projects that will put more people 9 back to work quickly. Not just serve the greater public 10 good, but put more people back to work. So, they're really 11 trying to keep it to that level, although as things have 12 always progressed in Washington over the years, it will 13 usually spread out and include more as the first of the year 14 moves on. 15 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, putting people to work 16 from the transportation standpoint is construction. 17 MR. BONILLA: Mm-hmm. 18 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, any capital project 19 would fall into that category because of construction, so why 20 limit it just to transportation if it, in effect, will do the 21 same thing? 22 MR. BONILLA: Well, I'm just the messenger. 23 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The transportation -- it's 25 an interesting point to talk about, and particularly going 12-15-08 jcc 30 1 back to your reference about involving TexDOT in anything 2 that you plan to do. Seems to me that that process gets 3 convoluted, although I understand the importance of the -- 4 the necessity to have TexDOT involved. But that alone slows 5 it down considerably, unless you get them involved and they 6 go through their vetting process and prioritizing process and 7 planning process, and whatever processes they go through. By 8 that time, probably the dollars are going in another 9 direction. So, how do we -- how do we make that come 10 together, I guess is my question. 11 MR. BONILLA: You mean how do you work better with 12 TexDOT? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do we work with you to 14 make TexDOT, on a transportation project that has merit -- at 15 least we think has merit, how do we pull all that together so 16 that -- so that the net result is positive without missing 17 the boat? 18 MR. BONILLA: You probably would need to work with 19 your state Representative or Senator to facilitate that 20 through TexDOT to make sure that -- as long as they're not in 21 conflict with you, that's the main thing. As long as they 22 don't come out later and say, you know, "We didn't need that, 23 and here's another project one mile up that would have 24 relieved a lot of congestion, and we really wish that that 25 would have been funded first." And so that's what you want 12-15-08 jcc 31 1 to avoid. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall a conversation I 3 had once with TexDOT when the topic of earmarks came up. 4 MR. BONILLA: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You may have been our 6 Congressman at that time; I've forgotten, Henry. The topic 7 of earmarks and obtaining funds through that process for a 8 specific project, right? And TexDOT indicated -- not all 9 that for public consumption, but let everybody -- all the 10 players know that that wasn't a process that they were really 11 interested in, notwithstanding the relative merits of the 12 process. 13 MR. BONILLA: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or of the project. They 15 didn't like it because it was going to detract funds from 16 other sources that -- 17 MR. BONILLA: That they want to do. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 19 MR. BONILLA: That is an issue. That is an issue. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just so everybody's aware. 21 MR. BONILLA: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's no doubt we do have 23 transportation issues, infrastructure issues that need to be 24 resolved. And I work with TexDOT all the time. In fact, 25 we're doing bridge projects right now in the Hunt area, and 12-15-08 jcc 32 1 that's pretty controversial. We kind of put that to bed, I 2 think, but they're off-system bridges that have been on the 3 list; basically, engineering and everything is done, and just 4 waiting for funds, because of the problems TexDOT's had over 5 the last year or so, and some of that money has been spent 6 elsewhere, and some of it's kind of been put on hold, I 7 believe. But we do have projects that -- that are in the 8 planning process, and some of them already have engineering 9 done. 10 MR. BONILLA: Well, those are prime. That's 11 exactly what they're looking for. Now, those bridge 12 projects, as you mentioned a minute ago, are those -- did you 13 say those were TexDOT-approved? Or others? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're off-system bridges, 15 but TexDOT does all the engineering and gets the funding from 16 the feds, passes through to the state to pay for those. And 17 we have done several in the past, but normally that takes 18 years and years to get funding for those. We have several 19 very dangerous one-lane bridges that need to be replaced and 20 widened. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have right now -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's seven. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seven? Seven that have been 24 approved by TexDOT, and they're in various stages of 25 engineering, but they're all projects that are -- and they're 12-15-08 jcc 33 1 all tied together under one -- I mean, under a package deal 2 that Commissioner Oehler was able to work out with somebody 3 in the western part of the county. I know the engineer on 4 one of those is our local district manager. There's a TexDOT 5 meeting, I believe, tomorrow to go over final plans, and that 6 one's being kicked out of the engineering. The rest of them 7 are in engineering right now. So, I mean, there -- they've 8 been approved. It's just whether TexDOT got a bucket of 9 money. I'm not so sure. I don't know how you get it from 10 TexDOT to these projects as opposed to other projects that 11 also are being looked at at TexDOT. I guess Commissioner 12 Williams is concerned -- we don't want to spend our money to 13 get dollars to TexDOT, and TexDOT is spending them for 14 other things. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I'm sure they have 17 another public relations firm on their staff. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 19 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Congressman, if time wasn't an 20 issue and staffing wasn't an issue, what can your firm do 21 that our elected officials can't do? 22 MR. BONILLA: If -- 23 COUNCILMAN GROSS: If it wasn't a matter of them 24 not having enough staff, what can you do -- your firm do that 25 our elected officials cannot do? 12-15-08 jcc 34 1 MR. BONILLA: I guess just to kind of summarize 2 what I've gone over here today, the -- there's a lot of red 3 tape and paperwork and -- and understanding of -- for 4 example, I don't know that -- with all due respect, that your 5 local elected officials would really know every project that 6 you're trying to get funded, exactly which road it ought to 7 take through the Congress, whether it's through the 8 Agriculture bill or the Public Works bill or the 9 Transportation bill or the Health and Human Services bill. 10 That is pretty labor intensive. In fact, I was up there for 11 a couple of years before I even started to understand how -- 12 which highway to take when you're setting off to get 13 something done, and so, you know, just being able to navigate 14 through the system like that. And the world has also 15 changed, even in the last couple of years, in terms of how 16 you -- you go about this. In the old days, somebody would 17 hand me -- Lamar Smith or some -- 'cause I was known as, 18 quote, an appropriator. Someone would hand me something with 19 a handwritten note on it and say, "Henry, can you take a look 20 at this and see if you can put this in this bill?" And I 21 said sure. I put it in my pocket; we'd go back and figure 22 out if we could put it in. 23 Now the whole process, and probably fairly so, has 24 become much more paper-intensive and detailed and public in 25 terms of, if you want something done, it's got to go through 12-15-08 jcc 35 1 all kinds of T's crossed and I's dotted and history, and, you 2 know, has this ever been funded before? Has it gone through 3 any other bill before? Is your county -- is anybody going to 4 object to it in your government, whether it's county or city? 5 Is the -- is it going through any other Senate office? It's 6 gotten a lot more complicated than it was even five or six 7 years ago. So -- and then also, being able to prioritize all 8 these projects versus a House office or Senate office that is 9 juggling, you know, thousands of projects all of the time, to 10 try to get them to go from, you know, the middle of the pile 11 or the bottom of the pile to the top of the pile. I mean, I 12 just, the other day, was able to talk to a key person that's 13 finalizing last year's appropriations bills that are going to 14 be done probably in the next month, and I said, you know, 15 this item that's right here -- 'cause I know the guy. I 16 worked with him for many years on appropriations. I said, 17 "Whatever you can do to boost that line, and here's the 18 history on it; it's all legit." You know, moving something 19 like that forward, in my view, is -- is a huge added value. 20 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Thank you. 21 MR. BONILLA: But it's complicated. It's not a -- 22 I can't write it down. And I couldn't, even when I was in 23 office, write down, how do you get from A to Z? It's a 24 culture that you learn after a while, that I've been 25 fortunate enough to have, I suppose, as close as you can to 12-15-08 jcc 36 1 mastering it after a few years. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- I guess, if you can 3 explain the process, a little bit of the legislation and 4 through the appropriations. You know, we identify a need, 5 say, at the airport, you know, doing something out there. 6 Could use a new water line right now, I think. Anyway, say 7 it's half a million dollars. How does that half million get 8 into the Transportation bill, and which I presume then it 9 goes kind of through transportation -- Department of 10 Transportation and back to TexDOT and back to Kerrville. I 11 mean, how does it track? I mean, how do you -- do you have 12 to work with this -- getting it -- seems to me getting it 13 into the bill is only the first step, unless it's a line item 14 that says it's for Kerrville airport water project. 15 MR. BONILLA: I was surprised, even people that 16 have been in office longer than I had in Congress still 17 didn't understand this. And oftentimes there can be what 18 they call report language in a bill, and it'll say water 19 project or reconstruction of a dam or something, and it'll 20 have an amount there. That's only a suggestion. The 21 question always was, do you have -- and some communities 22 would think, "Oh, good, it's mentioned; it's in the bill." 23 No, it's not in the bill. It's got to be what they call bill 24 language, or -- or legislative language where it's mandated. 25 And so, in essence, when it goes through the Transportation 12-15-08 jcc 37 1 Department or the Agriculture Department, you cannot -- 2 that's -- that is written in the law, and you can't hold onto 3 it and you can't change it. So, there is a -- there is a 4 huge difference as to how those projects move through the 5 system, and it took me a while to learn that as well. It 6 sounds so simple as I'm explaining it, but you'd be surprised 7 how many -- even some members of the Congress don't still 8 don't understand that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, these projects can be 10 almost a line item in the bill, so that protects it from 11 going to some other community. 12 MR. BONILLA: Correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the number that's built 14 into a specific project, we'll say $10 million, is that 15 actual, given in today's -- in the current economy? Or is 16 that an estimate of cost? 17 MR. BONILLA: It's an actual number. Although some 18 agencies -- it's a little sticky. There are some agencies, 19 depending on which one it is, where they'll take an 20 administrative 1 or 2 percent off the top. That doesn't 21 always happen. It depends on which agency it is. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Congressman, another thing, and I 23 think it's been briefly mentioned here this morning, that 24 what some of us here at the County or the City level may 25 perceive as a -- as a public works project may, in fact, be a 12-15-08 jcc 38 1 criminal justice type matter, or better fit there, or have 2 more prospect of getting funded in that manner, or 3 vice-versa. Is that not, in and of itself, kind of a maze, 4 trying to figure out, as you mentioned, which highway to try 5 and send something down? 6 MR. BONILLA: That's a justice -- did you say a 7 justice -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that was just an example. 9 What might be perceived as -- we might think of as a public 10 works project would -- would probably have a better 11 opportunity of getting funded if it were taken down a 12 criminal justice highway, for example. 13 MR. BONILLA: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Or vice-versa, or any combination. 15 MR. BONILLA: We have, for example, a school now, 16 one of our universities who we're talking to them about these 17 transportation projects, and they -- and they're talking 18 about providing buses for students in some areas, and we're 19 telling them no, that's not going to qualify. And although 20 having buses for students is transportation, that's not what 21 this situation would call for, so that's why we come in and 22 help make sure -- you don't want to put that whole thing 23 together and take it to your Senator, your House member, and 24 they go, "Can't do it that way." You know, you got to figure 25 out how to -- and sometimes they can't even tell you how to 12-15-08 jcc 39 1 do it the right way, but we can tell you how -- okay, no, no, 2 no, come back. Pull back, figure out, is there a public 3 safety issue here? If you work with the -- if this school 4 works with the city government with -- for student safety, to 5 create more -- to eliminate some hazards, well, then that 6 could more easily fall into -- into transportation, 7 governmental projects. But that's the kind of thing we have 8 to help walk you through it. And, again, if -- if we're 9 fortunate to work with you guys, we -- we would come down 10 here and, you know, one thing we'd want to do is bring 11 Christine, who y'all have met, and just get in the weeds, and 12 be a pretty intense day or two that we would spend just 13 trying to prioritize everything that we need to work on. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that part of your retainer 15 fee, or is that an additional cost? 16 MR. BONILLA: Well, that was -- our proposal says 17 we -- if there is any additional cost like that, that would 18 be -- we'd ask to be reimbursed. Although we -- you know, we 19 travel -- I go on Southwest, so -- that's my airline. So 20 we're not -- we don't do first class or any of that stuff. 21 And another thing is that you always -- I'm the guy that -- 22 anybody that -- that I've retained personally, I'm the guy 23 that you get on the phone. And I think Guy's known, even in 24 dealings thus far, that, you know, we're a small office, like 25 I said, and if you need to get me on the phone, unless I'm 12-15-08 jcc 40 1 traveling with my family or something, you know, I'm going to 2 call you back within an hour or a day or so at the very most 3 if I'm traveling. And I'm saying I do travel, so that's 4 usually the only delay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We had a couple of members of the 6 audience that had some comments, maybe some questions. Is 7 there anybody else here that has any question or comment 8 they'd like to mention? Mr. Heinz Roesch with the Hill 9 Country Home Builders. 10 MR. ROESCH: Mr. Bonilla, I haven't been privy to 11 see your client list, but I assume you have among your 12 clients similar -- other clients like City of Kerrville or 13 Kerr County. How do you resolve within your firm, or within 14 yourself, you know, the conflicts of interest that you have 15 among the clients that you serve? 16 MR. BONILLA: Well, first of all, they're all 17 available on our web site as well. There's usually not a 18 conflict, because, like, let's say we have a comparable 19 community -- Eagle County, Colorado -- that is a comparable 20 population and so forth. Well, the projects that go to 21 Colorado are not going come out of the same allotment -- 22 allocation that Texas gets. So, there's -- there is not a 23 conflict at all. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there some kind of 12-15-08 jcc 41 1 allotment number that is kind of placed for each state to 2 have access to? 3 MR. BONILLA: Not yet. Not yet. That kind of 4 varies every year. One of the biggest issues will be -- be 5 the level of commitment that the two Senators and your House 6 member will have. And -- I mean, and they're all good. 7 So -- you know, but we would be in the office -- I mean, some 8 of them used to work for me that are working in the 9 offices -- some of those offices, and we know them well, so 10 we'd be in there, you know, pushing these things along a 11 little harder than perhaps your -- your neighboring community 12 might be getting. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two questions, one of them kind 14 of a follow-up on Heinz's. 15 MR. BONILLA: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we were to authorize going 17 forward with an agreement with your firm, would you then not 18 take any other -- certainly any city/county clients in our 19 area? Would that -- pretty much, we'd be the one? 20 MR. BONILLA: I can tell you honestly, there is no 21 pending business that we have with anyone else at this time, 22 and we would weigh that. You know, we don't want to -- first 23 of all, we want you to be pleased as clients. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. BONILLA: Our goal is to keep y'all long-term, 12-15-08 jcc 42 1 and not to -- to somehow -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get a yes or no out of him. 3 MR. BONILLA: Not the priority. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes or no. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I heard maybe. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's maybes all 7 over. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I guess a little bit 9 more of a question -- 10 MR. BONILLA: We have no pending -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No pending -- 12 MR. BONILLA: -- business right now. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In looking through your -- I 14 guess the other members of the firm, I see there's 15 individuals that had worked with Senator Leahy, also 16 Representative Waters -- Maxine Waters. Little bit opposite 17 side of the spectrum than you politically. How does your 18 firm work internally between the intense party partisanship 19 that seems to go on in Washington? Your firm has 20 representatives on both sides. How do y'all work together? 21 MR. BONILLA: Well, we're a business, so we -- we 22 don't have any issues right now that are outstanding with -- 23 with -- or against either party. Maybe -- you point out that 24 we have a couple of the folks there that come from offices 25 that I probably didn't have, when I was in office, a whole 12-15-08 jcc 43 1 lot in common with, but we -- we pull together as a team. 2 And we meet every week, on Monday morning, and -- and figure 3 out kind of where -- where we are, either politically or with 4 policy issues, with whatever client business we have that 5 week. And -- and if I need help with an office on the other 6 side of the political aisle, I mean, we have people who can 7 reach into those offices. If some of them will call and ask 8 me, "Hey, can you talk to, you know, this member, or this 9 Republican from Pennsylvania?" Or from Florida, or from 10 Arizona, or from California, that I happen to have gotten to 11 know over the years. Sure. So, we -- we work together. 12 We're a real family; we're a real team atmosphere. I've been 13 there now for -- June will be two years, and just speaking 14 not just professionally, but personally, I couldn't be more 15 pleased with the team spirit that we have. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? Comments? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, Judge, do you have a 18 -- I guess to you and Scott, what's the timeline that you see 19 for the City? I probably know that one closer, but -- for 20 the County, but with the City, I mean, have y'all discussed 21 this at all? Are you -- are y'all going to put this on the 22 agenda? 23 COUNCILMAN GROSS: No, we haven't. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there's no -- 25 COUNCILMAN GROSS: No. 12-15-08 jcc 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 COUNCILMAN GROSS: We could discuss it today if you 3 want. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: My feeling was, when I agendaed it, 5 that if -- because of the new Congress, as I indicated, 6 cranking up next month, and things already being put into 7 play, if we're going to do this, I think it would be to our 8 best interest to do it promptly. That's -- that's my 9 thinking. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does the word 11 "promptly" mean to you? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Before dark. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking to a lawyer 14 here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Before dark today. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before dark today? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's prompt. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty prompt. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this an action item today, 21 or is this a workshop? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's agendaed as an action item. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I won't vote on it 24 today; I can tell you that right now. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to hear from the City 12-15-08 jcc 45 1 a little bit, because I've kind of -- obviously, we talk -- 2 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We obviously need to get 3 together as a group and determine where we're going to go 4 with it. And this has not been discussed, nor, to my 5 knowledge, has it been put on an agenda, and certainly I'm 6 not opposed to doing that. But I think to make a decision 7 today is a little premature. 8 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: I actually agree. You guys 9 are ahead of us. We need to sit down and prioritize our list 10 of projects and see what we might have that could feasibly be 11 done through the program that is -- is foreseeably subject to 12 being successful, to make an internal decision. 13 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: I think the Congressman's 14 been very helpful. In listening to him, what he said is 15 projects that are going to get funded here, at least in the 16 near term, are going to be transportation projects that have 17 engineering and that are TexDOT-approved. That's the list. 18 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah. We don't have any of 19 those. 20 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Well, but the County -- the 21 County may. But that's the list. So, if we want other 22 things, we're taking a gamble that, yeah, maybe something 23 will happen. But he's giving us -- I'll call it the A list, 24 where we should go away and try to come up with something 25 that matches the A list. If we've got something, great. If 12-15-08 jcc 46 1 we don't, that should be our decision criteria. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we also have to 3 discuss how the client relationship shapes up, whether 4 it's -- in terms of City, County, KEDF. Do we work through 5 Guy? Do we work through the Judge? Do we work through the 6 mayor? What type -- what type -- how does the client shake 7 out for these people's purposes? 8 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Sure. And I think the first 9 consideration is what's -- what are the projects on the list, 10 if any? Because that'll decide what the -- what the role 11 should be. 12 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: And, Mack, I may not have 13 heard everything. Is it strictly limited to transportation? 14 Primarily for -- 15 MR. BONILLA: On this first route. Again -- and, 16 you know, I don't believe in making hasty decisions either. 17 I understand that. And -- but the reason -- only reason I 18 bring this -- the three things I brought up were the stimulus 19 program on transportation, which is moving pretty quickly, 20 and then -- but long-term, there's the appropriations 21 process, and long-term there's that transportation -- the 22 regular transportation bill that's going to come up later in 23 the year. So, again, I'm hoping that if -- if y'all decide 24 to do this, that it's not a -- you know, this is not a rabbit 25 shooting out of the box, and that's all it's about. It's a 12-15-08 jcc 47 1 long-term deal. But this -- this opportunity is coming up 2 pretty quick. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But to follow up on that -- and 4 I agree with the Judge; we need to do it quickly, but reality 5 is, where we are in the month of December, nothing's going to 6 be done in Congress, really, between now and the first of the 7 year. Plus you're going to be gone for a good part of the 8 next two weeks. So, really, our decision isn't going to be 9 too far delayed if we're -- you know, by the -- our -- I 10 think we all meet next week. City Council meets next week? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think they have a meeting. 12 COUNCILMAN GROSS: We have a special meeting coming 13 up. 14 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: We do have a special meeting. 15 COUNCILMAN GROSS: 18th? 16 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Trying to be scheduled for 17 Thursday -- finally scheduled. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's an opportunity there. 19 Do y'all meet again this year as a Council? 20 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: No. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Okay. But either way, I 22 think by early January, the -- 23 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: This could be put on the 24 agenda for Thursday, I presume. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There could be some -- there's 12-15-08 jcc 48 1 time for Council and Commissioners Court to meet individually 2 and/or together between now and early January, and I don't 3 know when the session -- I mean, what's your time -- if that 4 is realistic from a timing standpoint, but it seems to me 5 there's not a whole lot to be done in Washington in the next 6 10 days. 7 MR. BONILLA: Not between now and the end of this 8 month, but very shortly after the first of the year, things 9 are going to get cranked up pretty quickly. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we'd need to -- I mean, 11 that's kind of our -- 12 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: He's got to get the list -- 13 if we go forward with it, whether it be as a group, jointly, 14 or individually, County, City, whatever, he's got to get -- 15 there's a lot of background work he can be doing between now 16 and then. 17 MR. BONILLA: Right. 18 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: To get prepared for when they 19 get cranked up. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: True. 21 COUNCILMAN GROSS: So, Bruce, how do you feel about 22 this? Do you want to put it on the next meeting -- special 23 meeting agenda? 24 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: I think so. 25 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Chuck? 12-15-08 jcc 49 1 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Sure, I agree. 2 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Mack? 3 COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Yeah, that's fine. 4 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: And then -- well, I guess we 5 take it step by step, but we need to have another joint, 6 probably, work session with you guys. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could. I think -- I mean, 8 the list that we came up with we can certainly get to y'all 9 today, because, I mean, we met Friday and kind of came up 10 with a list, and a lot of those are city projects. I mean, 11 they're -- or that are in the city limits, anyway. A lot of 12 them are not. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I don't think we prioritized 14 them as such, but merely made up a grand wish list, is really 15 what we did. 16 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We've got that in a general 17 CIP thing, but it's not transportation. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, some things may fit 19 transportation that don't, on their face, indicate they're 20 transportation, and vice-versa. Sometimes -- 21 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah, I hear you. That's 22 what you'd call it. A hat's not a hat until you call it a 23 hat. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe this to be a good 12-15-08 jcc 50 1 thing and a good opportunity. At the same time, it's a 2 two-edged sword for all of us who are elected officials, 3 because in one sense, it's like we're trying to look into the 4 future and -- and get funding for things that we can normally 5 not afford. On the other hand, if we do not get funding, we 6 will probably all get thrown out of office. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, for the City Council's 8 input, a number of things -- a lot of things -- like, I keep 9 on bringing back the airport, 'cause there is an identified 10 project the Airport Board has come up with, and TexDOT has 11 signed off, even though it may not be engineered. Even if we 12 get some of that engineering funding to do right now, it 13 would be helpful. But a lot of our other projects are things 14 that the City and the County feel need to be done, but we 15 really -- we don't know when we'd ever have the money to do 16 them. An example is draining and dredging Flat Rock Lake. 17 That's a county and possibly U.G.R.A. problem, but certainly 18 has a big impact to the city. I don't know if that's 19 transportation, unless we turn it into a canal, but, you 20 know, it's something that truly needs to be done. That lake 21 has never been drained, never been cleaned out, but it's a 22 benefit to all -- everyone in this area, especially the city, 23 I think. So, those are kind of the things that we put on our 24 list that are -- we'd like to see them done, but we really 25 don't know how we'd ever fund it. 12-15-08 jcc 51 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have some projects -- we'd 2 like to connect highways, one being 27 and 1340 so there's 3 another way in and out of Hunt, to alleviate some of the 4 traffic problems there. Another one is to connect, say, 5 Indian Creek with Freedom Trail over to Upper Turtle Creek 6 Road. People that live out there have to drive 35 miles when 7 they're only 5 miles from town. Things like that. And the 8 dredging of the lakes and the cleaning and the dam repairs, 9 and -- and -- 10 MR. BONILLA: Those are the kind of things that can 11 fall under the environmental improvement projects that are 12 going to be increasing in number in the next year. Question. 13 Have y'all accessed the Airport Improvement project grants 14 over the years? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Big help. I mean, we have a 18 lot of -- I mean, we've been very fortunate; we've had a lot 19 of funding for the airport through TexDOT, federal 20 pass-through funds. 21 MR. BONILLA: I probably worked on that with y'all 22 when I was in office. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've -- but we have more 24 projects, and we have a -- a huge one related to taxiway 25 relocation, finishing up that, which we're in the process of 12-15-08 jcc 52 1 doing it right -- the first phase of right now. And I don't 2 know -- what's the second phase, 10 million? 3 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Eight. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 million. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eight million, I think. 7 COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: The numbers are so big. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's the kind of thing 9 that -- I keep on saying airport. That's one that, if we can 10 get that done with 100 percent funding, that's huge, to the 11 City and the County, but that's just one of many that we have 12 on the list. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? I'm sorry, Jon. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question for Guy. What's 15 the chance of your organization having some funding to put 16 into the pot? 17 MR. OVERBY: Funding? No. No, we're -- we're in 18 the -- we're having some conversations right now about, you 19 know, some of that, how '09 and '10 will look down in the 20 future for us, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Turned a little red on that 22 one. 23 MR. OVERBY: We wouldn't have that. But -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just thought I'd ask. 25 MR. OVERBY: -- we can help in other ways. 12-15-08 jcc 53 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I guess I'd like to 2 see us put it on our agenda for Monday as an action item, and 3 in the meantime, ask -- have some discussions and stuff as to 4 how is it to take shape, and with whom do we work? I know 5 Guy's got his plate full. And Guy is a one-man band over 6 there, and how he gets done what he does, by himself, is 7 extraordinary, and I don't understand it. But if he were to 8 be our point man and be shepherding through City and County 9 projects, that's going to exponentially increase the volume 10 of work that he's going to have to say grace over. And so I 11 think we need to talk about these things as to who becomes 12 our point man? If you don't have anything to do the rest of 13 the day, you can do that, right? 14 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Bill, if I could make a comment, 15 I think it's really important that if we get involved with 16 this, that our mayor and our County Judge are involved with 17 it intimately. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely. 19 COUNCILMAN GROSS: And that we see -- that they 20 personally see our elected representatives -- representatives 21 several times each year, not just a hit and a miss. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with you. 23 I agree with you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Congressman, is it -- you 25 mentioned earlier you'd like one person. Can two -- 12-15-08 jcc 54 1 MR. BONILLA: Oh, absolutely. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The mayor and the judge? 3 MR. BONILLA: We're all reasonable. I mean, we 4 just -- the point is that we probably can't have -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eight. 6 MR. BONILLA: Yeah. It can't be done by committee. 7 Otherwise -- especially if some of the committee doesn't 8 agree with the other half of the committee. We'd just be 9 spinning around. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it seems that the mayor 12 and the judge would be the two people, because they are kind 13 of the -- at the top of the heap on both entities. That way 14 you don't have a discrepancy. You know, you do not have one 15 trying to get all the money and the other one not getting 16 anything. You know, at least you work together -- I believe 17 you'd work together. Some of these things would be outside 18 the city limits; some will be within the city limits. That's 19 just the way -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever's good for one is good for 21 the other, and vice-versa. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all going to be good for 23 the whole community. It's just the funding of this -- and 24 with the downturn in the market and in our economy, it's hard 25 to do. We don't know what we're facing in the next year, and 12-15-08 jcc 55 1 we don't know what our budget's going to look like, or our 2 values or anything else at this point. And it's -- this 3 coming in the middle of the budget year makes it even harder. 4 But it's not that I disagree with what you're trying to do 5 and what I think you will do, but funding for this is -- is 6 really -- I hope the noose doesn't tighten around my neck. 7 MR. BONILLA: Well, again, I would just say that 8 there are comparable communities, populations all around the 9 country, that would not be doing it if they didn't feel it 10 was a -- long-term, the rate of return is more than -- than 11 what they've invested in it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's what it has to be. 13 I mean, there's not an alternative to that. We must acquire 14 funding to offset those costs. 15 COUNCILMAN GROSS: Judge, I think this horse is 16 dead. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've kicked it. I can't tell 18 if it's still moving. Can you? 19 COUNCILMAN GROSS: I don't see any signs of life. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Anything else we want to do 21 here before we fold this up? Commissioners Court will be 22 adjourned. 23 COUNCILMAN GROSS: And City Council will be 24 adjourned, and the only gavel I have is a pie server. 25 (Joint meeting was adjourned at 10:24 a.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 12-15-08 jcc 56 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of December, 8 2008. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-15-08 jcc