1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, January 26, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 26, 2009 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 presentation of County Treasurer's monthly report for December 2008 9 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 acknowledge receipt of quarterly investment report from Patterson and Associates for 7 quarter ending 12-31-08 11 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve declaring one computer printer stand & 9 one plastic computer desk as surplus property 12 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to declare a dark brown metal 5-drawer lateral 11 filing cabinet as surplus property 13 12 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to ratify and confirm the Statement of Grant Award 13 for FY 2009 Formula Grant from Task Force on Indigent Defense; authorize County Judge to sign 13 14 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 requests from appointed and elected officials to appoint clerks and assistants for their 16 offices pursuant to Local Government Code 14 17 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to modify Interlocal Cooperation Agreement between 18 Kerr County and the City of Kerrville for regulation of subdivisions within City of 19 Kerrville's Extraterritorial Jurisdiction 16 20 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to appoint Commissioners Williams and Letz to 21 represent Kerr County in negotiations with various governmental agencies for interlocal 22 agreements that may be required for the Center Point/Eastern Kerr County Wastewater Project 17 23 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 prepare and forward to TWDB an Intended Use Plan for transmission line portion of Center 25 Point/Eastern Kerr County wastewater project as required between Center Point and Comfort 21 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 26, 2009 2 PAGE 3 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on order requiring registration of dangerous wild 4 animals 27 5 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to prioritize county projects for stimulus funding 42 6 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 release letter of credit for road in Lasso Ranch Subdivision and accept the road for maintenance 57 8 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 either decrease letter of credit for Ranches of Sunset Ridge or request a maintenance bond be 10 issued for a year to finish remainder of items to be completed 59 11 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 go out for annual bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe 63 13 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 adopt a resolution opposing wastewater discharge at Hill Country Camp on Harper Road 64 15 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 approve agreement between Kerr County and Groves & Associates for project management services 17 for Center Point/Eastern Kerr County wastewater project 92 18 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 19 receive update from Kerr County Tax Assessor and/or Kerr Central Appraisal District concerning 20 problems with tax statements and/or notices, and how to prevent problem from happening again 97 21 1.17 Consider/discus, take appropriate action to 22 allow County Attorney and County Auditor to pursue remedies involving Tyler Technology 98 23 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 24 proposed agreement between the Kerr County Historical Commission and Schreiner University 123 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 26, 2009 2 PAGE 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 discuss various county revenue sources and placement of funds 130 4 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 5 regarding demotion due to decrease in job duties 157 6 4.1 Pay Bills 162 4.2 Budget Amendments 165 7 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 167 8 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 9 Assignments --- 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 168 10 --- Adjourned 169 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, January 26, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 time and date, Monday, January the 26th, 2009, at 9 a.m. 11 Commissioner Letz is here. I thought he'd come in by now, 12 but -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He'll be back. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- he'll be here just shortly. 15 Commissioner Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll turn it over to you this 18 morning. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 20 join me in a moment of prayer followed by the pledge of 21 allegiance to our flag. 22 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this time, 24 if there's any member of the public that wishes to be heard 25 on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is your 1-26-09 6 1 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 2 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that you 3 fill out a participation form. There should be some at the 4 back of the room. It helps me when he get to that item to 5 make sure I'm not passing over anybody that wishes to be 6 heard. If, for some reason, we get to an agenda item and you 7 wish to be heard, but haven't filled out a participation 8 form, just get my attention in some manner and I will see 9 that you have the opportunity to be heard on it. But right 10 now, if there's anybody that wishes to be heard on any matter 11 that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come forward 12 at this time and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one 13 coming forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's a little damp 15 outside. Not quite damp enough to take the burn ban off. 16 And it missed it by two days; usually the rains come and the 17 cold comes when the stock show is in play at the Ag Barn, on 18 this particular weekend just past. Just my thanks and 19 appreciation to the young people and to the Hill Country 20 District Livestock Show Association. It's always a 21 pleasure -- seriously, always a pleasure to see those young 22 people working with their animals and to see what they have 23 worked so hard over the course of a year to produce and bring 24 to the show. It's a pleasure to watch them; they're a great 25 bunch of kids, and -- and I hope the sale was successful, 1-26-09 7 1 judge. But, again, my congratulations. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Commissioner Letz? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have anything today. 6 Hope it rains. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we're going to put the 9 plug back in the Ingram Lake on next -- a week from today. 10 And that has gone very well, getting rid of a lot of material 11 out of that lake, that some of it has not been able to be 12 removed in years because we've -- you know, the dry has been 13 good for that, but not good for anything else. But I don't 14 know. I talked to one of the contractors the other day. He 15 tells me there's been in excess of 1,200 loads taken out of 16 that thing, and some of those being 12-yard loads, some of 17 them being 6, 8. There have been people coming with trailers 18 and buckets and everything else, getting a little of it to 19 put on their flowers or whatever. But it's been a good 20 thing, and it's time to plug it back up, because we're going 21 to get into the time of year when the -- when the bass 22 fishermen will be getting on us for not plugging it if we 23 don't do so. And also, spring is coming, and those trees 24 will start sucking up that water. And, good lord, I hope he 25 brings us some rain before spring, because if we don't, we're 1-26-09 8 1 going to have even a slower river flow than we have now. 2 It's really pretty sad. Anyway, that's enough of that. 3 That's it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Baldwin? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to echo my 6 colleague's thoughts about the stock show and those kids out 7 there. Just absolutely fantastic to see a part of society 8 that conducts themselves, in my view, in a proper way. You 9 know, just -- my favorite part is to see those kids, whether 10 there's -- it's first place or 30th place, go to the judge, 11 look him in the eye and shake his hand and thank him for his 12 service, and what a thrill that is. I mean, your character 13 and integrity and all those things that's the fiber of our 14 country is being built right there, and it just thrills me to 15 see that, and what an honor it is to be a part of that. That 16 is all. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. You know, I've said 18 it before, and I think it deserves emphasis. As the juvenile 19 judge in this county, the young people that I don't see in my 20 court and in the juvenile justice system are the young people 21 that are participating in those programs and similar 22 programs; not just the ones involving animals and 23 agricultural products, but the 4-H programs which are much, 24 much broader than -- than animals and agricultural products. 25 They deal with self-esteem, character building, leadership, 1-26-09 9 1 all sorts of life skills, and -- but those are the kids I 2 don't see. So, sometimes when we -- when we hear that we're 3 placing maybe too much emphasis on developing those programs 4 and the expenditure of funds on those programs, I think the 5 proper response is, that is the place to spend the money. 6 That's where you get the most return, because you develop the 7 right kind of children and the right kind of young people 8 into the right kind of adults that make the kind of citizens 9 that we want in this county and in this country. So, I think 10 it -- it needs to be remembered that these programs are 11 extraordinarily good for developing young people generally in 12 the various life skills, and I'm tickled that they asked us 13 to -- to work with them on these programs, and it's a lot of 14 fun, and I think it's extremely worthwhile. Let's get on 15 with our agenda. The first item on the agenda is to 16 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on the 17 presentation of the County Treasurer's monthly report for 18 December 2008 to Commissioners Court for the Court's 19 examination and acceptance. Ms. Williams? 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Morning. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: You have a copy of the December 2008 23 Treasurer's report. If there are any questions, I'd be more 24 be than happy to try to answer them for you. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The bills are as you 1-26-09 10 1 reflect them in the affidavit; is that correct? 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Williams, I have, I think, one 4 question, and I'm sure there's an explanation. Maybe without 5 all your multitude of figures, you are not in a position. 6 The capital project account? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that's an '07 capital 9 project account. It shows a cash balance as of December 31 10 of 857,002.66. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: In another space, under Fund 16 -- 13 excuse me, 2008 -- it shows 863,510.99. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: The difference between the TexPool 15 capital projects account and the Fund 16, Fund 16 is included 16 in the pooled cash at Security State Bank, and it also shares 17 in the pooled cash interest. The TexPool account only has 18 the TexPool interest in that amount. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, there's the approximate 20 $6,500 difference. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the basis for that? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate that 25 explanation. 1-26-09 11 1 MS. WILLIAMS: You're welcome. I'm glad I could do 2 that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to accept? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You're seeking the Court's 6 acceptance of this report? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we receive the -- accept 10 the report. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 acceptance of the report and approval of the agenda item. 14 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 20 to Item 2; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 21 acknowledge receipt of the quarterly investment report from 22 Patterson and Associates for the quarter ending December 31, 23 '08. Ms. Williams again. 24 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. This is -- we've -- we do 25 this every quarter. It's our quarterly investment report, 1-26-09 12 1 and basically I just need you to acknowledge receipt of the 2 investment report from Patterson and Associates. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item, and acknowledging receipt of 7 same. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of 8 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry also. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We will move to Item 3; consider, 15 discuss, take appropriate action to approve declaring one 16 computer printer stand, Inventory Number 201, and plastic 17 computer desk, Inventory Number 2655, as surplus property. 18 Ms. Pieper? 19 MS. PIEPER: Yes. Gentlemen, we're just getting 20 some more stuff out of the office that we're not using, 21 declaring it surplus. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 1-26-09 13 1 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 4; 6 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to declare a 7 dark brown metal five-drawer lateral filing cabinet, 8 Inventory Number 000255, as surplus property, cabinet having 9 been removed to the Juvenile Detention Center's storage room. 10 MR. GARCIA: Morning, gentlemen. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 12 MR. GARCIA: We won't need to do that. We're going 13 to go ahead and recycle that into Ms. William's office, so 14 it'll be moved to her office and be used in another capacity. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Always good if we can use that stuff 16 ourselves, isn't it? 17 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Let's go to Item 19 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to ratify 20 and confirm the Statement of Grant or Award for 2009 Formula 21 Grant from Task Force on Indigent Defense, and authorize 22 County Judge to sign same. I note Ms. Hargis is on there as 23 well as myself. This is our portion of the Court of Criminal 24 Appeals Task Force on Indigent Defense. Funding is 25 approximately $26,000, as determined by their formula. The 1-26-09 14 1 Court previously approved the participation in the program. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the $26,317. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 7 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's move to Item 12 11; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on request 13 from appointed and elected officials to appoint clerks and 14 assistants for their offices pursuant to Local Government 15 Code Chapter 151. As the Court's aware, we've taken this 16 action in prior meetings for a number of offices. Hopefully 17 this is the end of the needed requests for the appointment 18 and employment those various deputies and clerks. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval. Question or discussion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just have a simple 24 question. This is the third time we've done this, and I'm 25 not real clear -- I'm not real clear why. 1-26-09 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me get the County Attorney to 2 answer that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we miss some in the 4 first round? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're the ones for 7 Maintenance. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we do -- next time, can 9 we do just a blanket? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, Commissioner, I think 11 that's exactly what we're -- this came at us at a very late 12 hour, if you'll recall, I think shortly before the swearing 13 in on January the 1st. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And a number of departments got 16 their necessary paperwork in at that time. Then there was 17 some more at our first meeting in January, and now this is 18 the balance of them. But I suspect that for the next year, 19 we will do that all in one fell swoop, as per the -- the 20 personnel schedule. I suspect that's the way it will go 21 henceforth. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. Let's don't 23 get the County Attorney involved in this thing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, just for the record, I 1-26-09 16 1 think you can probably all see, this is for the Maintenance 2 Department and Animal Control. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Judge, I have a question on the 5 agenda item. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Is Information Technology required 8 to submit this form? I don't collect any fees or whatnot, 9 but I have -- I have drafted the form; I do have it today 10 ready if it's not too late to submit it. 11 MR. EMERSON: I think it's prudent to submit it. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. Should I submit it through 13 the County Attorney or yourselves? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Here. It now includes I.T.? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Includes I.T. as well. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Hopefully that's the end 17 of it. Any other questions or discussion? All in favor of 18 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 23 to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 24 modify interlocal cooperation agreement between Kerr County 25 and the City of Kerrville for regulation of subdivisions 1-26-09 17 1 within the City of Kerrville's extraterritorial jurisdiction 2 as follows: Section 1, the duration of the agreement and 3 termination of Item B, to change 90-day notification for 4 termination to 30 days. Commissioner Letz? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 6 We've been working under a 90-day period trying to get this 7 reworked, and the -- the current period expires, I believe, 8 the first week of February. And City Council's aware that 9 we're doing this. Rather than do another 90-day period, I 10 really want to get this thing wrapped up. I think 11 Commissioner Baldwin and I are pretty close to being done 12 with our part of this. So, I'd just like to amend the 13 agreement to a 30-day period, and hopefully the City Council 14 will do the same. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a motion. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 19 second. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 20 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 25 to Item 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 1-26-09 18 1 appoint Commissioners Williams and Letz to represent Kerr 2 County in the negotiations with various governmental agencies 3 for interlocal agreements that may be required for the Center 4 Point/Eastern Kerr wastewater project. Commissioner 5 Williams? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. As we 7 get into this project a little deeper and begin the planning 8 process with the funds authorized by the Texas Water 9 Development Board, we're going to have to begin some 10 discussions and hopefully enter into negotiations with others 11 with respect to this project, and so what I'm asking the 12 Court to do is to let Commissioner Letz and I represent the 13 County in these negotiations. And, of course, we'd bring 14 back any proposed interlocal agreements with the complete 15 explanations and so forth. It's something that has to be 16 done. We're going to be meeting with Comfort W.C. & I.D.; 17 there are going to be others. We're going to have to be 18 talking to TexDOT with respect to use of their highway 19 right-of-ways and so forth and so on. And, so, that's the 20 purpose of this motion. Move approval. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you let us do 22 that? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't do you that? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll make the motion to 25 approve the agenda item, with a question. 1-26-09 19 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval of the agenda item. Actually, we got two motions 4 and a second, I guess. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't want to appoint 6 yourself. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's talk about -- let's 9 talk about the various government agencies. You mentioned 10 TexDOT. Who else might be involved? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Comfort W.C. & I.D. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City of Kerrville. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City of Kerrville is 15 another possibility. Upper Guadalupe River Authority is a 16 possibility. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City of Kerrville because 18 they're still -- that option of coming this way with it is 19 still on the table? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's still totally 21 unresolved, still open. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So there are at least three 24 or four. There may be others. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T.W.D.B. may be another one. 1-26-09 20 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water Development Board is 2 another possibility. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because of money. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Money and ongoing 5 application issues and so forth. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, all -- all -- 7 everything left to do, basically, y'all want to go in and 8 negotiate with them and get everything -- dot all your I's 9 and cross all your T's? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can -- I had this discussion 11 as to why we're doing some of this right now with 12 Commissioner Williams a week or so ago. The phase we're at 13 now with the current grant, we need to decide where we're 14 going with the wastewater. That's part -- that's probably 15 the biggest thing that we're looking at right now, as to 16 deciding whether it's going east or west, and get an idea as 17 to, you know, how you get there, if you're using the state 18 right-of-way or buying private right-of-way. I mean, those 19 are the decisions that have to be made during this current 20 grant that we -- has been funded. And, really, it's kind of 21 the -- the put-up phase, because if we can't work out a deal 22 with somebody as to who's going to treat the wastewater, 23 there's -- we're not going anywhere. And that's kind of -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all have a goal of when 25 the drop-dead date is of making that decision, east or west? 1-26-09 21 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It'll come in this phase of 2 planning, which should be eight -- six to eight months of 3 planning, this particular phase we're in right now. It 4 should come. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or will come. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Will have to come. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 12 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 13 hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 18 to Item 14; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 19 to prepare and forward to the Texas Water Development Board 20 an intended use plan for the transmission line portion of the 21 Center Point/Eastern Kerr County wastewater project as 22 required between Center Point and Comfort, the intended use 23 plan to be offered for consideration as part of the proposed 24 federal economic stimulus program. Commissioner Williams 25 again. 1-26-09 22 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we all read about 2 what the great stimulus plan's going to be. While no one 3 knows for certain, what we do know is that infrastructure 4 projects, water, wastewater particularly, any -- any funding 5 that comes down from the federal government under the 6 economic stimulus plan, those dollars will go to the Texas 7 Water Development Board, and they will make the determination 8 of what's eligible, what's good, what's bad, what's 9 indifferent and so forth. We keep hearing and reading about 10 shovel-ready projects, and the federal government's going to 11 want shovel-ready projects to take a look at. This one's not 12 shovel-ready, but there is a -- you know, another definition 13 for projects, and that is an intended use plan, an I.U.P. 14 In talking to our engineers, they suggested that we 15 should probably take a look at the Center Point/East Kerr 16 County project and divide it for this purpose only, not for 17 the purposes of the Water Development Board. Our application 18 is in place, and it's a complete project, and they're going 19 to take a look at it as a complete project. But for this 20 purpose, we should take a look at it and separate the 21 transmission line part -- portion, which goes from Center 22 Point to Comfort, across the county line, and -- and break 23 that out from the entire project and file an application 24 through the Water Development Board, and state that it is an 25 Intended Use Plan and seek funding for that particular part 1-26-09 23 1 of the project. 2 The funding for that project could be as much as 3 $4 million, that piece of the project, as we know it today. 4 Who knows what it'll be tomorrow? And so that's what this is 5 all about. We would -- we would prepare some form of an 6 application, submit it to the Water Development Board, and we 7 would then provide it as an intended use plan. We make 8 certain that our current application, which includes that 9 transmission line, does not touch at all; it continues to 10 perk through Water Development Board and go through all the 11 hoops that is required of it. So, that's the purpose of 12 this. It's all part of the proposed federal economic 13 stimulus program. It may not be funded, but it's a situation 14 where it behooves us probably to put a little bait in the 15 water and see what happens. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I probably differ a little bit 17 with Commissioner Williams on timing on this. I think 18 it's -- I think we should wait. I know -- I know the -- and 19 I heard Mr. Groves give his recommendation, but I really 20 don't want something to go out to the press and tell Water 21 Development Board that we're doing some kind of a deal with 22 Comfort Wastewater C.I.D. Number 1, or whatever it is, until 23 we at least have a pretty good agreement with them that we're 24 going to do it that way. I think that there could be -- 25 cause a problem. I think we should -- you know, I think we 1-26-09 24 1 can have a meeting with them in the next two weeks -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and see, and then I think 4 this should be deferred till next agenda. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question, 6 though, before you do that. Would you do the same thing if 7 -- if the words were between Center Point and Kerrville? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, because there's a 9 -- there's a cost for that line as well. I think it's about 10 $2 million to do it this way, or two and a half, as I recall. 11 It's going to be closer to four going eastward. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you change that 14 particular language and just -- you know, you're specifically 15 talking about Comfort here, and if you took that and changed 16 it -- I mean, it seems to me -- I understand exactly what 17 John's talking about down there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good point. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you'd -- I still think 20 these kind of things need to get in the pipeline ASAP. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could change it, and as 22 -- by what you're suggesting, and change the language, 23 talking about that line required between Center Point and the 24 treatment process plant, wherever that is. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can go with that. I just 1-26-09 25 1 don't want to pin it down. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, because it kind of 3 defeated what we just got through doing. I mean, sounds like 4 to me you've really made a decision here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Clearly, the -- it is much -- 6 and from my standpoint, anyway, a benefit to the county to go 7 east. Coming to Kerrville really doesn't help eastern Kerr 8 County. It helps maybe City of Kerrville some, and that's 9 fine. But the idea is to try to get -- we have a lot of 10 pretty high-density developments between here and Comfort, 11 and it would be a big plus to get those all off of septic 12 right next to the river. And there's also the water 13 component -- drinking water component of it. So I think, 14 clearly, it's the -- if possible, the way to go is to 15 Comfort. If that doesn't happen, I think we have to look at, 16 you know, going to Kerrville. I mean, because we can't 17 unilaterally say it's going to Comfort. They may have a 18 change of heart and say, you know, they're not interested. 19 So, I think that we need to be prepared to go either 20 direction, or at least look at each direction. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with that. 22 You're absolutely right. So, we could change it as required 23 between Center Point and a wastewater treatment plant. That 24 leaves it open. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure we can modify the 1-26-09 26 1 agenda item, though, as it presently exists, for action 2 today, is my point. 3 MR. EMERSON: You can do a -- you're not 4 restricting the agenda item. You're -- if any -- well, let 5 me -- it's less restricted; it's a more open-ended order than 6 what the agenda item is. I think it will probably work, as 7 long as you don't say Kerrville. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So what are you saying? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do it. (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What's he's saying is we can. 14 MR. EMERSON: If the wording, as is suggested, to 15 just go to "a wastewater treatment facility" is sufficient. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would offer it as 17 a motion with that change, for the transmission line portion 18 of the project, as required between Center Point and a 19 wastewater treatment facility. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we have a motion. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Further question or 23 discussion on the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make -- make 25 a point. This is -- this is a work of art. We're talking 1-26-09 27 1 about pumping poo-poo here, and it being a part of an 2 economic stimulus program, a federal program. I think that's 3 wonderful. It just works perfect. It fits. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that sound like something 5 politicians would do? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exactly. This is a 7 wonderful -- this is a wonderful moment in county government. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this good stuff? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is good stuff. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least it's worthwhile. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, at least it could go 13 uphill or it could go downhill. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to say, we're 15 not talking about pumping right now, are we? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any other questions or 17 comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's now 23 go back to Item 5, which is a 9:30 timed item, and that item 24 is to consider, discuss, take appropriate action on order 25 requiring registration of dangerous wild animals. 1-26-09 28 1 Commissioner Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think there's no 3 secret to the fact that we had a big -- big cat get out of 4 his cage over on Beaver Road a week ago Sunday, and this has 5 caused a lot of things to happen, and one of them is to 6 review what the Court adopted in 2001, as well as to go and 7 look at what the state requirements are to house these kinds 8 of dangerous animals and what the regulations are involving 9 owning one. I had no knowledge of this when I came back on 10 the court, but I sure got a lot of education within this last 11 week, I assure you. And I think there are some residents -- 12 in fact, I know there are some that were in the area where 13 the cat did escape, and one in particular, Mrs. Crenshaw, it 14 was in her back yard, I believe, where they actually 15 tranquilized it. And I believe they probably have some 16 things to say about this, along with other residents in the 17 area. Judge, did you have any participation forms? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I did, as a matter of fact. You're 19 ready for me to proceed with that? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I am ready for you to proceed 21 with it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Mildred Crenshaw from Ingram has 23 asked to be heard on this item. Ms. Crenshaw? 24 MS. CRENWELGE: Well, first thing, all you can get 25 is that she's complying with regulations. But it also says 1-26-09 29 1 right here in your laws that outdoor primary enclosures, 2 1,000 square feet, uncovered, shall have vertical jump walls 3 at least 10 foot high and 45-degree inward angle overhang 2 4 feet wide, or jump walls at 12 -- at least 12 foot high 5 without an overhang. The inward angle fencing should be the 6 same material as the vertical fencing, which it was not; it 7 was barbed wire. Also, if your officers had not gotten there 8 when they did that night and stopped the animal down at the 9 corner of Beaver Road, it would have been in Ingram just as 10 easily as in my back yard. There's nothing but a bridge 11 between there and Ingram. And also, that animal can rear up 12 on its back feet, the way that her cage was, and his paws -- 13 or her paws, pardon me, stick over the top of the fence. I 14 know the law may say a certain heighth, but whenever 15 inspection was made, it looks to me like when they can see 16 that the paws stick over the top of the fence, there's 17 something wrong there. And plus it says in there that 18 Commissioners Court, by order, may prohibit or regulate the 19 keeping of any wild animal in the county. And I think it's 20 ridiculous to have an animal like that in a neighborhood 21 that's populated. And it isn't a very pleasant thing to wake 22 up in the morning with -- at 3 o'clock to have a tiger in 23 your back yard, and not know what's going on. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone 25 else here present that wishes to be heard with regard to this 1-26-09 30 1 particular agenda item? Yes, ma'am. Please come forward, 2 give us your name and address, and -- and give us your 3 thoughts on it. 4 MS. LEITNER: Well, my name is Anke Leitner. I'm 5 the owner of the cat, and I would like to address what 6 Mrs. Crenshaw just said. First of all, I'm terribly sorry 7 that she did get out. It was a freak accident that she did 8 get out. Some of the wire, somehow she got tangled up in it, 9 and probably was trying to get out of it. We -- nobody 10 really knows what actually happened, how she managed to do 11 so, but from looking at it afterwards, I assumed that this is 12 what it was. Also, to one of the items where she said that 13 she can reach across the fence standing up, that is not 14 correct. There was no way for her standing up straight, 15 reaching over the fence. I mean, it -- it is my enclosure, 16 and I know that there is no way for her to reach over like it 17 was just documented. 18 At the same time, all week long I'm having two 19 welding crews out there building a new fence -- new cage for 20 her. It is a complete enclosure, including a roof on there, 21 including a keeper's gate, that would be for any vet, 22 official, me to have access to the cage if we have to. Also, 23 there is another feeding gate being installed that is 24 approximately 18 by 20, that if I have to feed her, that I 25 don't even have to open up the cage. We have a complete 1-26-09 31 1 perimeter fencing around it. On top of that, there is 2 additional perimeter fencing around that. I'm using the 3 existing cage as new perimeter fencing, and I'm building a 4 new -- complete new cage, completely closed inside. And, 5 like I said, I mean, we -- we have crews working out there 6 all week to come in compliance and make sure that something 7 like that will never ever happen again. And, like I said, 8 for me, that's the worst. 9 She obviously is not an aggressive cat. There were 10 many people stating that, seeing that. I mean, yes, she was 11 walking down the street, but, you know, there was no way 12 that, you know, she showed any aggression. I mean, I was 13 even ready to actually put a rope around her neck and walk 14 her home, which she is used to. I walk her on a regular 15 base. I spend time with her on a regular base. She is very 16 used to human beings. I had several vets even before stating 17 that she is probably the most tame tiger that they've seen in 18 a long, long time. So, I mean, that's what I would like to 19 say. Again, Mrs. Crenshaw, I'm really sorry that she did end 20 up in your yard. There's nothing I can do except ask you for 21 your apologies -- I mean, I'm -- I'm sorry. I want to ask 22 you to accept my apology, of course. And, I mean, that's all 23 I can say. I'm really sorry for the incident. I will make 24 sure that it's not going to happen again. 25 MS. CRENWELGE: Well, it wasn't supposed to happen 1-26-09 32 1 this time. 2 MS. LEITNER: Oh, they are finishing up today. I 3 have two welding crews working out there. It took us till 4 Wednesday to finally figure out what actually we all need to 5 do with the -- with the regulations of the state, with 6 material to use. There were a few gray areas, of course, in 7 the regulations, and I think we all came to an agreement. I 8 mean, I talked to Bruce about it. I talked to the Sheriff 9 about it. Me and Janie, we are working very closely together 10 to make sure that everything is up to code. We have covered 11 two areas since that day. I have two welding crews out there 12 working. Friday night they were working till 12:30 at night; 13 you probably seen the lights. Saturday night we were working 14 till 9:30 at night. Last night we were working till 15 11 o'clock at night, all day long, just to make sure that we 16 are getting ready and everything is going to be safe. 17 MS. CRENWELGE: Well, as I say, I'm -- I'm not the 18 only one that's affected by it. 19 MS. LEITNER: That's basically what I have to say. 20 Thank you, gentlemen. 21 MS. CRENWELGE: Just wound up in my yard. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else that 23 wishes to be heard? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just have one question of 25 Anke. She just stated that she puts the rope on it and walks 1-26-09 33 1 it. Where are you walking that cat? 2 MS. LEITNER: It was in her enclosure. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Inside the enclosure? Okay, 4 thank you. I already told her if it got out again, there's 5 liable to be a tiger rug in my office, because we're not 6 going -- I can't take the chance. There are a lot of kids 7 that live in the area. 8 MS. LEITNER: I previously did so. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 10 MS. LEITNER: I previously put a rope on her and 11 walked her within the area, just to exercise and teach her 12 some manners and, you know, basically keep her trained. I 13 got her since she was a baby. She's used to that. I mean, I 14 used to walk her on a regular leash when she was little. I 15 was just able to pick her up, just to keep her exercised, and 16 understanding between me and her going. So -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 18 MS. LEITNER: -- it will be inside, I promise you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anyone else that wishes 20 to be heard on this item? Yes, sir? If you'll come forward, 21 give us your name and address, and give use your input on 22 this subject. 23 MR. BROWN: David Brown, 120 Beaver Road. I 24 understand that she is coming up to compliance with the 25 rules. I haven't read them or anything. Is there a 1-26-09 34 1 guideline or something that somebody goes out and inspects 2 yearly or annually or something, semiannually, to make sure 3 that each year, that she is up to compliance? Because if 4 she's coming up to compliance now, what's happened before? 5 Has she been waiting this long to be able to let the cat do 6 what it wants, and now, since it got out, she's having to 7 come up to compliance? I think there should be a -- at least 8 a yearly inspection of all dangerous animal cages or 9 whatever, so that they are kept in compliance. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the -- my understanding, 11 Mr. Brown, is that the State, since we adopted this order, 12 has made some modifications to the -- to the specifications 13 that are required for the type of enclosures, and some 14 additional requirements, and that there is now an annual 15 inspection that is required -- 16 MR. BROWN: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the facility, and a 18 registration of the animal itself. That's my understanding. 19 Is that correct, Ms. Roman? 20 MS. ROMAN: Yes. And we have also decided that we 21 are going to inspect every other month as well, just to make 22 sure that this never happens again. 23 MR. BROWN: Okay. 24 MS. ROMAN: And I'll make sure that the Sheriff has 25 all of that information as well; has pictures, has a diagram 1-26-09 35 1 of the enclosure, has everything, has copies of our 2 inspections, everything. But we will be doing this every 3 other month, and then, of course, every year doing the -- the 4 big inspection. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's the requirement of -- 6 MS. ROMAN: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the statute, is the annual 8 registration. 9 MS. ROMAN: The annual inspection, yes. But we are 10 trying to go above and beyond by doing this every other 11 month, just to make sure that this never occurs again. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Anyone else that 13 wishes to be heard on this item? Any member of the Court 14 have any input they'd like to offer? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I still have -- I 16 think that, you know, we need to revisit what the Court has 17 adopted and what's in force at this time. I tend to agree 18 that at some point, you know, I think some other counties 19 have banned the ownership of dangerous animals. Of course, 20 Kerr County being one of those who has many, many different 21 kinds of exotics -- of course, they're not all considered to 22 be dangerous wild animals, but I would like to see us, in the 23 -- in the very near future, revisit this and possibly make 24 some changes to our order, one of those being to grandfather 25 the ones that are here now, because it's kind of -- kind of 1-26-09 36 1 hard to take somebody, you know, that already has one and 2 then tell them all of a sudden they have to move or they have 3 to get rid of it. But I think, over time, the animals will 4 not be here any longer; they'll die. And if we can ban it to 5 the point where we don't have any more coming in in the 6 future, I think we'll be doing ourselves a favor. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And doesn't -- doesn't the 8 law -- I vaguely remember adopting this thing years ago. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it seems like to me they 11 actually listed the type of animals. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're listed in the order. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Is this animal one of 14 those? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, he is -- she is. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think we need to 17 revisit it, too, because I -- my memory says that -- that the 18 order says you're not allowed to have them. But -- but does 19 it say you -- you can't have these unless your cage does this 20 and this and this? Is that what the -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what it says now. And 22 if you -- and with the other state stuff that is here, it 23 tells you how big, how high, what kind of materials it'll be 24 and all that kind of thing. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that makes it okay. 1-26-09 37 1 Now, what about -- the State of Texas says we want you to 2 adopt -- or you can adopt this law, but we want you to do the 3 inspection. We want an inspection, but we want you to do it. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, whenever -- when you 5 adopted this order back in 2001, it threw it from the state 6 onto us. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's up to us now to 9 enforce -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- that ordinance or 12 regulation or whatever you want -- that order. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you know, I think that 15 you can throw a rock in any direction on this thing and you'd 16 hit somebody at fault, other than the people that live there. 17 And, you know, the good thing that's coming out of this is 18 that there will be better inspections. There will be 19 documentation of that. The owner is sure enough on notice 20 now, and she is sorry the cat got out; of course she is. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, that's the right 23 attitude to have with the residents that were affected by 24 this. And I thank the good Lord nobody got hurt. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, I have two 1-26-09 38 1 questions, and really probably more directed to the County 2 Attorney. The list of what a -- I guess a dangerous animal 3 is, is lions, tigers, ocelots, cougars, leopards, cheetahs, 4 jaguars, bobcats, lynx, servals, caracals, hyenas, bears, 5 coyotes, jackals, baboons, chimpanzees, orangutans, gorillas, 6 or any hybrid of these animals. So, I mean, it's -- 7 obviously, there's animals that are not on that list that I 8 think are probably dangerous, but it's kind of -- it's a 9 pretty good list. I guess we -- can we modify that list? 10 And I don't need an answer now, but when we put it back on 11 the agenda, can we allow bobcats, but nothing else? You 12 know, just an example. 13 MR. EMERSON: That list is acquired from the state 14 statute. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but -- anyway, but later 16 on it says we can regulate or something, or ban it 17 altogether. My question is, can we modify this list to allow 18 some and not all? And second question I have is, in the 19 regulations, can we put an acreage size or -- or have areas 20 where you could have them, and not other areas that you 21 cannot? Can we designate those? You know, those two 22 questions. Can we modify state law that way? And that's 23 just a question for when we -- 24 MR. EMERSON: Part one is a maybe, okay? Because 25 it is specifically described by statute what dangerous 1-26-09 39 1 animals are, and they're listed, so you're probably not going 2 to be able to do that. Part 2 is yes, I think you can. You 3 have the ability to add onto the regulations to make them 4 more restrictive. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you feel more comfortable 6 doing a little bit more research on that before you came down 7 solid on it? 8 MR. EMERSON: Absolutely. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not asking for that order 11 to be modified today. I think there'd have to be some public 12 hearings and things that are associated with changing this 13 order. But I do -- I do really feel like that as we divide 14 this county up in smaller pieces, that areas are going to get 15 smaller and smaller to house; you're going to have more 16 population, and I just don't think it's a good idea to 17 continue with it forever. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the existing order 19 we adopted in 2001, I believe; is that correct? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so what we're talking 22 about is what today? How to strengthen it? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How to -- whether we want to 24 modify it in the future, or whether we just want to leave it 25 alone. 1-26-09 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I have a question, 2 then, through you to the County Attorney. Section 822.113, 3 which talks about offense and penalty, it doesn't say -- it 4 just says a person commits an offense if he violates whatever 5 sections of law. Doesn't say what type of offense that is. 6 Is that a misdemeanor, class whatever-whatever? 7 MR. EMERSON: It's Class C. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we put that in there so 9 everybody knows what it's all about? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: It's there. 11 MR. EMERSON: It's in there. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is it? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Next page. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next page? 15 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second page. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Boom. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, there it is, stuck way 19 down on the bottom. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else to offer in 21 connection with this particular item? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the order -- you mentioned 23 earlier that state law has changed. Do we need to modify our 24 order today to at least bring it up to current state law? 25 Which I guess -- I mean, we -- 1-26-09 41 1 MR. EMERSON: I think you're already there, because 2 your order actually reflects statute numbers. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 MR. EMERSON: The fact that the statute numbers 5 changed doesn't affect the order. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm just glad that 8 things have worked out like they have and nobody got hurt. 9 That was the main thing. It would be real serious otherwise. 10 And hopefully we will revisit this in the near future and -- 11 and strengthen it a little bit where we can, and hopefully at 12 some point they'll be banned from the county. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue of acreage 14 probably is relevant too, as Commissioner Letz inquired, as 15 it goes to population density. I think that's a good thought 16 to have. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think so too, because 18 it has to be disruptive and dangerous to have a cat -- 19 whether he's tame or not, he still makes racket at certain 20 times of the day and night. And being as cats are somewhat 21 nocturnal, I believe nighttime is when they're probably the 22 most active with their growling. And I know some other 23 people that have had that experience besides on Beaver Road. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Almost as bad as peacocks, huh? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, now -- 1-26-09 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Noise-wise. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say yes. Peacocks 3 and guineas have a way of doing that too. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on, if we might, 6 to -- to Item 15; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 7 to prioritize county projects for stimulus funding. I put 8 this on the agenda. Our -- our congressional representative, 9 Congressman Lamar Smith, his office has asked for us to make 10 our submissions of stimulus projects by -- February the 13th 11 is the current deadline that they've given to us, and that's 12 right around the corner. So we need to, I think, come down 13 solid on -- on what it is we want on a priority basis. So 14 that -- I realize that we had a workshop and came up with a 15 rather lengthy grocery list, all of which are excellent 16 projects, and each of -- each of the members of the Court had 17 input onto that list. But I think we need to kind of winnow 18 that down to what we really have as priorities on a 19 county-wide basis for -- for submission for stimulus funding. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We submit that straight to 21 Congressman Smith? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's -- yes. That's what the 23 Congressman has asked, that we submit it directly to his 24 office, and they will marshal it forward from there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I recommend maybe we 1-26-09 43 1 have, at our next meeting, a workshop at 1:30 or so to -- we 2 can each bring our list portions of it, and then we can 3 prioritize it at that point. Or -- I mean, to save time from 4 doing it -- when's our next meeting? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The 9th. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9th. We made a list, but I 7 think we probably need some more specifics with it, and as to 8 exactly what is -- you know, I know we have all the bridges 9 that came out of the Highway 39 issue. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, all the 11 off-system bridges. I think there's what, seven of them? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That -- I know -- I feel sure 14 that two of mine are -- are already somewhat funded, but the 15 rest of them I don't believe are funded, and those are 16 really -- the engineering and stuff is being done as we 17 speak, and shovel-ready is going to be pretty soon. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those kind of things, if 20 you're talking about infrastructure, those are not only 21 infrastructure. They're dangerous, most of them. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then we have a couple at 23 the airport that we have a pretty good handle on. What I 24 think we need to be real specific on in the list is, I think, 25 the wastewater projects. 1-26-09 44 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about dams and 2 lakes and so forth -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- as well. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those dams, sure enough, need 6 to be on the list for funding to do the repair on those if 7 possible. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Yeah. If we can get 9 lake cleanup on there, it would be good too. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like we're doing our 11 prioritizing right now. Does that sound like it to you, 12 Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It do. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what it sounds like to 15 me. I like that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We -- I prefer not to wait, 17 Commissioner. It's not just a matter of making a list and 18 saying, "Here it is." There's a lot more documentation that 19 needs to go with that, and it's going to take some staff time 20 to put all that together, and I don't want to wait until the 21 9th to nail it down. If we're going to do it on a workshop 22 basis, I'd like to get it done maybe the tail end of this 23 week at the latest. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If we can't do it today. 1-26-09 45 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do it today. I think 2 we -- pretty much, we have enough to get going on, anyway. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We already have the study on 4 the dams completed from Freese-Nichols. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Basically, the -- well, we do 7 have the C.D. that goes with it to show -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- the damages. We have an 10 estimated cost. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In 2007 dollars. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. So that, you know, I 13 consider that to be something that could be presented and 14 possibly get funded. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could get the -- obviously, 16 from Mike Coward, we ought to be able to get exact location. 17 I know they've done some of the engineering on all the ones 18 in my precinct. But we can get that list from them with the 19 -- whatever backup they have ready. The airport information, 20 we can get that -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- from the Airport Board. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've got two bridges in -- 24 in my territory -- my precinct. One is an off-system bridge 25 and the other is an on-system bridge. I guess it's 1-26-09 46 1 on-system; 1350 at Government Crossing. That's a state 2 highway. And the other one is the one that crosses 3 underneath the dam at Center Point. What I'd like to know 4 from TexDOT is the extent to which they have -- we need to 5 know that, the extent to which they have engineered the 6 off-system and come up with estimated costs, and whether or 7 not they have come up with any estimated costs for 8 improvement of Government Crossing as well, and get those 9 both in there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two other projects that are in 11 the works in my precinct related with Road and Bridge, after 12 probably two years working off and on on it, right-of-way and 13 some road work on Lane Valley. I think -- Leonard and I met 14 last week on that; we have a pretty good idea of a cost on 15 that one, I think. We can come up with it. And also, 16 there's an -- 17 MR. ODOM: Infrastructure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- infrastructure project in my 19 precinct that we can get information from Len Odom on. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like you and Leonard 21 are kind of on the same page there. He's reading your mind. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we try to communicate. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you, TexDOT has all 24 these things. They're doing all their own engineering design 25 work now. They have some new young ones out of -- just out 1-26-09 47 1 of school that -- that they're loading them up with projects 2 to do, because they're -- they can't contract for it any 3 more, and they're moving pretty quickly on especially the 4 projects on Highway 39 and 1340 bridges. They're able to 5 knock those out pretty quickly. I even met the other day 6 with them on two of those -- three of those bridges up there, 7 and they -- they're going to be ready, I think, to -- they'll 8 have, I believe, about 60 percent of the design engineering 9 done within three days. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: These are off-system? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: These are on-system. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other projects we 13 haven't mentioned -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The off-system, I have two 15 that they'll have ready within the next 30 days -- or less 16 now, because it was -- I met with them 10 days ago, to get to 17 that 60 percent part to where we'll have a community -- you 18 know, have a little neighborhood meeting with the people that 19 are affected by those bridges to let them have some input, 20 also explain what's going into those projects. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Basically, they're -- for 22 Commissioner Letz' information, at the conclusion of the 23 economic development breakfast the other morning, I met with 24 Mike Coward just for a second, TexDOT, to talk to him about 25 our meeting with him to begin the discussion on -- on 1-26-09 48 1 easements and so forth within the TexDOT right-of-way on the 2 sewer projects. I'm wondering if we couldn't review with him 3 where they are on certain things and bring some of that 4 information back. We could set that meeting up, again, 5 pretty quickly. One of the things I'd like to pick his brain 6 some more about was -- was a project I brought to the Court 7 last year, which would require a good bit of economic 8 stimulus and -- but it would be a major improvement for Kerr 9 County if it was ever completed, and that would be a tie-in 10 -- a road that ties -- comes across from 173 -- State Highway 11 173 at -- before 2771, Lower Turtle Creek Road -- Leonard and 12 I have talked about this -- and comes across in the vicinity 13 of Brinks Crossing and ties into the Airport Loop Road at 14 Highway 27. That would be a good thing to have in terms of 15 looping our traffic, particularly as our airport continues to 16 grow and that traffic begins to increase. We haven't done 17 anything other than talk about the fact that it would be nice 18 to have, and so I think somehow or another, I'd like to see 19 if we can develop that, at least get some estimated ideas of 20 what the cost might be. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City has that on their 22 master -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't have it at that 24 location. They have it up around Guadalupe Heights. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 1-26-09 49 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somewhere in that area. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, they have it. The 3 other thing that we need to add -- the Judge is writing down 4 a list -- is the Ag Barn. That's ready to go from the 5 standpoint of at least going for basic funding. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can make it green and we 7 can collect water and we can do all kinds of things with that 8 to make -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But everything we've listed 10 except the last one Commissioner Williams did, we have a fair 11 amount of documentation already built up. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the TexDOT projects, I think 13 they are prioritizing those themselves, and I think a lot of 14 that's going to be controlled by whether or not they've got 15 the engineering completed. And Mike Coward mentioned the 16 other day that he feels like for this district, in 17 particular, here right -- right here in this Kerr County 18 area, they're in pretty good shape because they have a bunch 19 of projects engineered, sitting on the shelf, just waiting 20 for somebody to plug some money into them, and they're ready 21 to go. They -- they can let them immediately, because all 22 the engineering is done and it's just a matter of letting 23 them and doing the documents and turning them loose. So, it 24 occurs to me that anything that falls under TexDOT's 25 responsibility umbrella, which I guess would include 1-26-09 50 1 on-system bridges but not off-system, would be something that 2 we would leave under their umbrella, and -- and we would 3 concentrate bridges, for example, on the off-system, and the 4 projects that have particularly county connection. I have 5 written down the -- the dams, the Center Point/East Kerr 6 wastewater project, the off-system bridges. We need to 7 itemize those, and the Youth Exhibit Center. I think that's 8 -- that's probably more than what we should be submitting, 9 but I think we've -- we've got everything pretty well 10 stacked. Can we come up with a prioritization on those? 11 Hopefully we can fit within these guidelines and summaries 12 that have been furnished to us. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to add one more to -- 14 and I'm kind of looking at this a little bit from the 15 standpoint of -- of the County's liability near-term. One's 16 going to be the new water line at the airport, which is going 17 to require fire suppression. That's going to have to be 18 funded, and that's something that right now the City and the 19 County are going to have to come up with that money out of 20 our budgets. So, I think -- I think in the priorities, I 21 think we have to look at to a degree as to which ones are we 22 most likely to have to spend our taxpayer money on in the 23 near future, and that comes real -- that's one. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That, for sure, would be one 25 of them. 1-26-09 51 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would put that real high on 2 the list, because that's going to -- that's money that has to 3 be spent in the next couple of years, and it's -- it's 4 city/county money. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That would probably be the only 6 other source of funding. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That will not be funded 8 by TexDOT. The other projects we have a match and the City 9 has a match that we're obligated to -- but I'm not sure 10 that's going to get changed a whole lot. I think these will 11 probably be -- you know, I think we're going to have to come 12 up with a match one way or the other, but the water line 13 project is not fundable by TexDOT. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you; it ought 15 to be on the list. And the exact amount that's going to be 16 required is still unknown, because you will recall that some 17 members of the Airport Board challenged the proposed solution 18 that was given to them at the last airport meeting. So, 19 there may be a solution out there that's less expensive than 20 the $600,000 that was prepared, but it needs to be on the 21 list. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I think we can get 23 a -- the City has a high side number that they have 24 pre-engineered. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it. 1-26-09 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And that number -- I 2 mean, that can be submitted, and if you get less -- I mean, 3 if we -- if a different alternative comes up, that would be 4 possible. That, you know, could be done in a less expensive 5 way. That -- and to me, that's a high priority one. The 6 off-system bridges, if TexDOT gets money, we don't have a 7 whole lot of control on that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we don't have any 9 control. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a priority to get down for 11 the county, but it's kind of lower on the list. The -- the 12 dams, to me, are real high priority, 'cause we don't have the 13 money for that. That needs to be done, and the clean-out of 14 Flat Rock and -- well, all the lakes is a high priority to 15 me. The Ag Barn's a high priority, but not as high, because 16 I think that -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's other foundation 18 funding. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's also a little bit more 20 discretionary, not a public safety issue or something. Yes, 21 we'd love to have it, but -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see it a little bit 24 different. I think that the Youth Exhibit Center should be 25 higher because of the -- the word "stimulus" funding. To me, 1-26-09 53 1 that's what it's all about, is -- is the money is supposed to 2 come here to stimulate economy and those kinds of things. I 3 don't see that -- I mean, I have to stretch my brain to see 4 Mr. William's system down at Center Point going to Comfort or 5 Kerrville, how that has anything to do with stimulus. But 6 you can. You know, if you think about it for three or four 7 months, you can figure out a way to see that, how it enhances 8 the living conditions in the Center Point area, and maybe 9 some structure, et cetera. But the Youth Exhibit Center, I 10 think, is just -- to me, is the top of the list with -- with 11 the stimulus thinking. It's not only Ag Barn, stock show, 12 but community center as well. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Educational. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Educational, conventions, 15 all of those things that stimulate the economy. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we just name it 17 1-A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I'd like to do is see if 19 we can't find some consensus here as to -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just voted. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what we put at the top of the 22 list. Well, let's see if anybody else says that the Youth 23 Exhibit Center is numero uno. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say it's in the top three. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say the top three. 1-26-09 54 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would too. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the wastewater deal, you 3 know, that's going to be environmental. You can tag it with 4 an environmental, because of being on septics, you know, to 5 get people off of septics, and -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Environmental. It's also 7 economic development. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Also economic, yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It -- it would be the top 10 three. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm with Jonathan. The 12 off-system stuff's going to get funded; TexDOT's going to 13 have all the say about that, and whenever they get the money, 14 they get the money to do those. And even their own system 15 stuff is going to be funded the same way. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason I put the 17 airport -- I'd put the airport in the top three, certainly, 18 and the reason is that one water project, however it's done, 19 because we can have no more roads at that airport until we 20 fix that problem. It has to be done. We're shut down 21 because we don't have the water flow to do fire suppression. 22 Something needs to be done on that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else on board with that? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm okay with that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 1-26-09 55 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And our dams and lakes has 2 to be up there. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've already got three top 4 three, so now we're going to be talking about top four. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd put the -- I'd put the dams 6 and lakes and off-system bridges four and five. Probably 7 wastewater, three, and then the other two can sort themselves 8 out. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm almost with you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is one? Which is one? 12 Somebody commit. Buster committed. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I committed. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: He didn't have a problem with it. 15 Anybody else join him on the Youth Exhibit as number one? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll put -- I'll agree with 17 him, put that as one. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll go along with that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Airport, two. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'll go along with 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go along with that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Center Point, three? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 1-26-09 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Dam repair, four. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Four. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Off-systems, five. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Off-systems, five. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That gives me goosebumps. I 8 really like that. (Laughter.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Just feels good, does it? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Feels good. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Speaking of TexDOT. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, lookie here. 14 MR. TUCKER: Just making sure Buster is 15 representing me well. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got the goosebumps 17 going, buddy. 18 MR. TUCKER: That's right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: At least we have somebody to carry 20 the message to TexDOT that speaks their language. 21 MR. TUCKER: I'm here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the list as 23 we just sorted it out. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 1-26-09 57 1 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. For your -- 7 for your information, Commissioners, what I am going to try 8 and do is get my go-to gal, special projects gal, 9 Ms. Lavender, and enlist her aid in trying to get the 10 paperwork together to get this stuff stacked on this basis. 11 Because there's some paperwork involved, and it's going to 12 have to go forward to the Congressman's office, and probably 13 Mr. Overby -- Guy Overby, as y'all know, has been working 14 hard on these things too, so I'm not sure what input he'll 15 have, but we're going to get it -- try and get it cranked up. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6, which was a 18 10 o'clock item. We're a bit past that now. Consider, 19 discuss, take appropriate action to release the Letter of 20 Credit Number 8014 for the road in Lasso Ranch Subdivision 21 and accept the road for maintenance. Mr. Odom? 22 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. The road in Lasso 23 Ranch Subdivision has been completed, inspected, and 24 approved. The original plan was for the road to be privately 25 maintained, but the developer decided to have the road be 1-26-09 58 1 maintained by Kerr County. There's one cattle guard on the 2 property that would be taken out at the next maintenance of 3 the road. At this time, we ask the Court to release the 4 Lasso Ranch Subdivision Letter of Credit Number 8014 for 5 72,000, and accept the road for maintenance by Kerr County 6 contingent on $908.93 the developer owes for Wayne Wells' 7 engineering reviews. As of Friday about 3 o'clock, Mr. -- 8 your neighbor? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Crenwelge. 10 MR. ODOM: Crenwelge. Dale came in, and that is 11 paid off, so there's no need for contingency, and as far as 12 I'm concerned, we're ready for maintenance for that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept the road -- is 14 it road or is it roads? Road, isn't it? In Lasso Ranch. 15 MR. ODOM: Just one road, right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Into the Kerr County road 17 system. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that to include releasing the 20 letter of credit? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a 23 second. Question or -- or comments on the motion? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-26-09 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 4 to Item 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 5 either decrease the letter of credit for Ranches of Sunset 6 Ridge or to request a maintenance bond be issued for a year 7 to finish remainder of items to be completed. Mr. Odom? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The Ranches at Sunset Ridge 9 have a Letter of Credit Number 221 for $313,735 that expired 10 on March 26th of '09. Wayne Wells did a maintenance 11 inspection on January the 14th of this year. Wayne noted 12 that the brooming of the pavement would need to be done prior 13 to acceptance, that the right-of-way would need an adequate 14 stand of grass, and that signs would be in good condition. 15 We're asking the Court to either reduce the Ranches at Sunset 16 Ridge's letter of credit to 30 percent of the 313,735 amount, 17 or request that the Crockett National Bank issue a 18 maintenance bond for the same reduced amount. The new amount 19 would be for $94,120.50. We also -- at this time, we ask to 20 have their timeframe extended one year so they would be able 21 to get the grass to grow in the right-of-way. We feel at 22 this time, with the drought and time of year, it would be 23 difficult to get the grass to take hold. We ask for your 24 guidance in this issue to either reduce the letter of credit 25 or have them issue a maintenance bond for 30 percent, which 1-26-09 60 1 would be 94,120.50, and extend the period for one year. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, banks normally aren't in 3 the bonding business. A letter of credit is a pretty liquid 4 capital item; it's easy to call upon. 5 MR. ODOM: That's true. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me if the amount's 7 going to be the same, we ought to stay with the letter of 8 credit. You're comfortable working with those? 9 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Banks honor them readily, as opposed 11 to getting them or somebody else in the bonding business. 12 I'd prefer not to deal with bonding companies. They like to 13 duck and dodge a lot. 14 MR. ODOM: That's true. And if I have the letter 15 of credit and we don't get it completed, I can get it done. 16 I can file on that. I would -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: For 94. 18 MR. ODOM: For the 94. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would the time period be 21 extended to one year from now, or when the new one's issued, 22 or would it expire March 26th? 23 MR. ODOM: March the 26th, and go for one year from 24 there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One year from that date. 1-26-09 61 1 MR. ODOM: Right, sir. And it may be the summer, 2 but I hate to say six months and then have to come back to 3 you again. I think it's appropriate. If they had a 4 maintenance bond, it would be one year. Maintenance bond 5 wouldn't give it for six months or three months; they would 6 make them go out one year. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the letter of credit has 8 a different purpose than a maintenance bond, it seems to me. 9 When we're accepting the road, we're doing the one-year 10 maintenance bond for -- to make sure the road stands up. I 11 guess you could use a letter of credit to do the same thing 12 if the road falls apart. Maybe we need to look at our 13 Subdivision Rules on that, to just require a letter of credit 14 instead of a maintenance bond, if we prefer to deal with 15 them. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I think what we're dealing with now 17 is just getting the project finished -- 18 MR. ODOM: Finished. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- before we accept the road for 20 maintenance, and at that point is when you look at a 21 maintenance bond there for a period of one year. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Post completion and acceptance. 24 MR. ODOM: Right. And what they did before was use 25 their performance bond for two years. 1-26-09 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 MR. ODOM: So we never did go back into the 3 maintenance bond; we just kept it all the way through. Now 4 you're telling me that is completed as performance bonds, and 5 I'm sorry, I don't recall. It does say a maintenance bond, 6 but we have used, I mean, letter of credits in the past. 7 So -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I'll move that we 10 authorize Road and Bridge to get with the developer to get a 11 new letter of credit in the amount of $94,120.50, to last for 12 one year, or up to one year from -- 13 MR. ODOM: March 26th. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- March 26, 2009. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 17 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And as it related to Sunset 19 Ridges -- roads in Sunset Ridges Subdivision. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's the agenda item. 21 Further question or comment? All in favor of the motion, 22 signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 1-26-09 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 2 to Item 8; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 3 go out for annual bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, 4 emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. Mr. Odom? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We're asking that authority 6 from y'all for the road base, cold mix, and aggregate and 7 emulsion and corrugated pipe. Once we put out the bids, we 8 will come back to the Court to open the bids on March the 9 9th, 2009, at 10 a.m. in Commissioners Court, and follow up 10 with awarding the bids on March 23rd, 2009, at 10 o'clock. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 16 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's be in recess for about 15 21 minutes, and then we'll take up Item 9. 22 (Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:35 a.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's come back to order, if we 25 might. We were in a short recess. We'll now go to Item 9, 1-26-09 64 1 which is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 2 adopt a resolution opposing the wastewater discharge at Hill 3 Country Camp on Harper Road. Commissioner Baldwin, you asked 4 that this item be placed on the agenda. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did, sir, and I thank you 6 for the recognition. This resolution, we had talked about 7 it, and talked about this issue many times in here and out in 8 the community, and I saw where the City of Kerrville weighed 9 in on the issue, and U.G.R. -- Upper Guadalupe River 10 Authority weighed in on the issue. And then I was visiting 11 with some of my constituents recently, and they suggested 12 that the County also weigh in on the issue. Now, the -- the 13 church camp out there, I understand, has applied to the state 14 for a wastewater treatment plant, and that treatment plant 15 does certain things. And the application -- you know, a 16 certain amount of water to be discharged, et cetera, and I am 17 not an expert in the field of wastewater treatment plants or 18 wastewater, so I have to leave that to the experts. 19 And I happen to know that in my years of working 20 with the State of Texas, T.C.E.Q. are much more liberal than 21 I am about these issues. So I'm thinking, you know, if they 22 take a look at this -- at this treatment facility, and they 23 think that it's a workable deal -- and, you know, I can't 24 argue with them. They're -- they're supposedly experts, and 25 there are some experts in this room that I think that want to 1-26-09 65 1 speak as well. But my whole issue of -- is not necessarily 2 the discharge or how -- how much discharge and those kinds of 3 things of it going into a certain little creek, and then when 4 it rains, it washes it down to Town Creek, and then 5 eventually into the Guadalupe River. I oppose all of those 6 things. 7 But my point here in this -- in this resolution is 8 encouraging the camp to look at alternative systems. And 9 when I think about that, I think about what goes on in my own 10 yard, and that is my sewage is treated underground, and then 11 sprinklers pop up and spray my yard. How -- it doesn't get 12 much more simple than that, other than I wish I could get my 13 colleagues to pay for it. (Laughter.) But that -- that's my 14 recommendation for the Hill Country Camp to do, is to reuse 15 the wastewater that they produce. Treat it, spray it back on 16 their own property. Now, the bottom line here for me, 17 personally, is -- and I've said this to their attorney, 18 Mr. Shoemaker, who's here from Austin, and the camp manager, 19 et cetera -- is that if you want to be good neighbors and you 20 want to get along with your neighbors, then you need to take 21 a look at what you're proposing. You need to rethink that, 22 and you need to consider an alternative system, such as 23 reusing it and spraying it back on your own property. Now, 24 if -- that's my desire. I want -- I want the Hill Country 25 Camp to get along with all those neighbors that are up and 1-26-09 66 1 down that creek, and the room is full of them today. If the 2 Hill Country Camp chooses not to get along with their 3 neighbors, move forward with what you're doing, because your 4 neighbors are not going to get along with you if you do that. 5 So, Judge, if you'd allow me, I'd like to read the resolution 6 into the record. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then I'm going to make a 9 motion to adopt it, and then you're in charge of going from 10 there. Resolution: Whereas the Hill Country Camp located at 11 1319 Harper Road in Kerr County, Texas, is owned and operated 12 by the Assemblies of God Church; and whereas the Hill Country 13 Camp has filed an application with the Texas Commission on 14 Environmental Quality, T.C.E.Q., for a Texas Pollutant 15 Discharge System, Permit Number WQ-0014832001, to discharge 16 treated wastewater from a treatment plant located on their 17 property that will ultimately reach the Guadalupe River 18 through constant flows from Town Creek; and whereas a public 19 meeting was conducted by T.C.E.Q. on May 29th, 2008, in the 20 Kerr County District Courtroom Number 1, at which area 21 citizens expressed their concerns for the potential adverse 22 impact the proposed discharge may cause to the Guadalupe 23 River; and whereas the Upper Guadalupe River Authority 24 likewise expressed its concern that the proposed discharge 25 could adversely impact water quality in an impaired area of 1-26-09 67 1 the Guadalupe River; and whereas there exists today several 2 viable treatment alternatives that should be carefully 3 examined and considered by the Hill Country Camp ownership 4 before proceeding with the current wastewater discharge 5 plans. Now, therefore, be it resolved, the Kerr County 6 Commissioners Court strongly urges Hill Country Camp 7 ownership to examine alternative wastewater treatment 8 options, including surface or subsurface application of 9 discharge from an approved treatment plant which can be 10 accomplished through spraying a large portion of treated 11 effluent onto their property; and be it resolved that copies 12 of this resolution be forwarded to ownership of Hill Country 13 Camp, the T.C.E.Q., U.G.R.A., and other interested parties. 14 Adopted today, the 26th day of January, 2009. And I offer 15 that as a motion to adopt this resolution. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 20 adoption of the resolution. Let me note that we have a 21 number of participation forms on this particular matter. I 22 want to be certain that everybody gets a reasonable 23 opportunity to be heard. What I would ask is that you try 24 and be brief and succinct in your comments. If -- I would 25 ask that you not be extremely repetitive of other speakers, 1-26-09 68 1 but I do want everybody that truly wants an opportunity to be 2 heard to have that opportunity. So, I am going to call for 3 the speakers who have asked to be heard. The first one is 4 Wendy Barber. Ms. Barber is from 119 McCullough. That's 5 McCullough Road, I believe? 6 MS. BARBER: Yes, sir, McCullough Ranch Road. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: McCullough Ranch Road. 8 MS. BARBER: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is immediately off of Harper 10 Road. And tell us what's on your mind, ma'am. 11 MS. BARBER: Well, my property is directly across 12 where the plant is proposed to be located, and so I initially 13 opposed the plant just because of the proximity to my 14 property. And then when I learned that they were going to be 15 dumping the effluent into the tributary, then I was equally 16 opposed to it. So, I -- my experience with knowing about 17 sewage plants has been limited to my aerobic septic system in 18 my back yard, so I've done a lot of homework on this. I 19 would encourage you to, if you have Google time, to look up 20 sewage leaks, in Texas only. And I got 31,500 hits. Now 21 those are not all accurate, but what you start doing is you 22 start seeing municipal water spills. And to me, a municipal 23 district is much better prepared and organized than a camp 24 might be. I'm not saying that they are, but if it's a 25 municipal and they still have leaks and spills, then this 1-26-09 69 1 concerns me. 2 So, with the proximity of my property, I started 3 doing homework. I visited the Bastrop site, which is an area 4 that's comparable to what the Hill Country Camp is hoping to 5 do. They have an MBR plant, which is a membrane plant. I 6 didn't know these words about three weeks ago. But the plant 7 that is there is state of the art. It's about the size of 8 this room, and it's two-story. They take their water and 9 they pump that back up into a water garden that they have so 10 kids can go and benefit from the water lilies and all these 11 sorts of things. So, to me, that's the ideal thing that we 12 would want with our neighbors being good neighbors to us. 13 So, as opposed to dumping their water, as opposed to putting 14 that sewage plant right next to my property, wouldn't it be a 15 good thing if they would reconsider locating it on the center 16 of their property, where they will maintain it and they will 17 know immediately if they have a spill. It'll impact them, 18 and if it's going to be in your back yard and it's going to 19 be yours, aren't you going to watch it better? So, that's -- 20 that's my -- that's my two cents. So, I -- I appreciate you 21 considering it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. The next 24 participation form that I have was filed by Douglas Skokna. 25 MR. SKOKNA: Very good. Thank you. 1-26-09 70 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And he lives at 2041 Crown Ridge 2 Drive in Kerrville. Mr. Skokna? 3 MR. SKOKNA: Thank you. I've come here today to 4 support the motion that Commissioner Baldwin just read, and 5 for three different reasons. One is the -- in my opinion, 6 the discharge has toxic characteristics to certain types of 7 aquatic life. Those characteristics will dissipate with 8 dilution and time, but will cause a problem, I think, 9 wherever it first enters the Town Creek. Second of all, if I 10 was hired by the camp to give them advice, my advice would be 11 stay away from permits. I've had over 20 years of industrial 12 experience at petrochemical plants, a lot of the time devoted 13 to complying with environmental regulations. And rather than 14 going through all the details, I will just tell you one 15 little story, and this comes with an apology to any counsel 16 who may be present. The plant I was at, we received our 17 permit and had several months of reasonably good compliance, 18 and some problems, and we had some word from the state that 19 we were operating in that we needed to do better. And, as a 20 result of that, we assembled a team which involved -- part of 21 the team involved several lawyers. And we had a meeting and 22 explained the situation, and we said to the lawyers, "What do 23 you think?" And the lead attorney said, "Well, you just sent 24 my children through Harvard Law School." So, I think the 25 point is clear on that. 1-26-09 71 1 And then the third is -- is that I think the intent 2 of the motion is to be a good neighbor. Let me just give a 3 couple specifics. The permit, which I don't know if you 4 really need a copy of or not, but allows the camp to 5 discharge ammonia at a level of 6 -- and I won't go into the 6 units -- on a weekly basis. If you look at this document 7 here, which comes from the EPA Gold Book, which is EPA's 8 guidelines for the limits of what you should have for the 9 conditions that I think will exist in the first lake on -- 10 that receives that water, they say the limit should be 11 somewhere around .5 to 1. So, we're looking at allowing a 12 discharge that is six times above what EPA recommends. If 13 you look at some of the literature -- what I'm citing is for 14 bluegills, from J.T. Baker -- they say that the limits should 15 be .02. So, we're looking at significantly higher levels 16 than what the research data shows is toxic to fish. 17 Bluegills are, of course, an important species. 18 My opinion is -- is that if you look at the 19 situation, Town Creek doesn't have much flow in it, 20 especially this past year or so, 16 months. There's no flow 21 in the tributary that the discharge will come through, so 22 what you're going to have, I think, is a pretty big dead zone 23 in that first lake, and I don't know what downstream from 24 that, but it will not be good. Getting back to the camp, I 25 mentioned that they may have some steep legal bills as time 1-26-09 72 1 goes by, but they'll also have ongoing costs. If you look at 2 the permit requirements for testing, it's probably $100 to 3 $200 a week just to have those tests run, and then there's 4 also special testing fees that might also -- they might also 5 incur. And I guess just the last part is -- is that, you 6 know, I think it's the neighborly thing to do, to consider 7 these alternates. I -- and I guess I said to myself, well, 8 if it was my camp, what would I do? And I'd sure build a 9 hayfield and use that water to make hay instead of pollution. 10 Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. The next 12 participation form was filed by Jim Olafson, with an address 13 of 160 Turkey Run. 14 MR. JIM OLAFSON: I'll pass. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Then, at the same 16 address at 160 Turkey Run, we have Bonnie Olafson. 17 MS. OLAFSON: I was really hoping to speak after 18 the lawyer for the camp spoke. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think everybody wants to take a 20 shot at you. Well, I don't want to disappoint them, Mr. 21 Shoemaker. 22 MR. SHOEMAKER: I don't mind going ahead if you'd 23 like. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Scott Shoemaker from Austin, Texas, 25 with the Terrill firm is here with us, and it's my 1-26-09 73 1 understanding he represents the Hill Country Camp in this 2 matter. Is that correct, sir? 3 MR. SHOEMAKER: Yes, sir. I'm Scott Shoemaker, and 4 I am here on behalf of Hill Country Camp. First of all, I 5 just wanted to say thank you very much for your flexibility 6 in giving us the opportunity to come out here and speak about 7 the resolution. I'm already getting the theme here about 8 people being concerned about pollution and things of that 9 nature. And while I'm more than happy to address any side 10 questions that I may get, please understand, I'm not an 11 engineer. I'm just a lawyer, and I'll do the best I can, but 12 I may not be able to answer every question. However, I am 13 going to focus my statement kind of on the resolution itself. 14 And also, since I'm down here, I wanted to also take an 15 opportunity to -- to kind of clear the air on some things. 16 There's been some things said about -- and I know it's not 17 necessarily the Commissioners, but I wanted to -- I thought 18 this was a good audience to kind of clear the air on some 19 things. So, if I may, before I start about the resolution, 20 could I just discuss a couple of items? Okay. Well, thank 21 you. 22 First, I just want to say Hill Country Camp is a 23 growing, thriving camp, and, you know, they have been on a 24 septic system just like just about everybody else in this 25 neighborhood, from what I understand. And, you know, in 1-26-09 74 1 order to safely and responsibly meet their growth needs, you 2 know, they applied to the T.C.E.Q. to get this discharge 3 permit. It is -- and in our opinion, it is definitely one of 4 the more safe and responsible options to do. And everybody 5 has a differing opinion on what needs to be done about it, 6 but this is definitely a safe and responsible option. As you 7 probably know, the T.C.E.Q., they review all these domestic 8 wastewater applications, and they issue the draft permits 9 only if those applications meet standards designed to be 10 protective of the environment. This facility, Hill Country 11 Camp, would meet or exceed these requirements. Hill Country 12 Camp, among their bills in pursuing this application, they 13 have hired experienced engineers to prepare their 14 application, and the draft permit was prepared by top-notch 15 engineers at T.C.E.Q. And according to those engineers, the 16 experts in this area, the proposed discharge would not be 17 harmful to the environment. 18 Some of the things that have gone out there -- and 19 I think somebody made a really funny reference to it already, 20 about treated effluent. But, you know, it has been said that 21 Hill Country Camp has applied to discharge raw sewage, and 22 that's a complete fabrication. Hill Country Camp, in my 23 opinion, is a good neighbor, and they would never propose to 24 do that, nor would T.C.E.Q. ever permit that. So, I wanted 25 to make it clear about that. Another thing, a lot of people 1-26-09 75 1 are concerned about the discharge it would have on -- they 2 would say it would impact Town Creek or the Guadalupe River, 3 and if I may, I'd like to really kind of bring that 25,000 4 gallons per day into perspective. From what I'm told from 5 our engineers, that's roughly the equivalent of a 1-inch 6 garden hose. Now, we can kind of get specific -- or more 7 specific, but we're not talking about a massive discharge 8 here. This is -- in the grand scheme of things, this is a 9 very low flow discharge. Frankly, that amount's unlikely to 10 even leave Hill Country Camp's property, much less impact or 11 cause flooding to the tributaries like we've seen on the 12 comments. 13 I also see another -- another writing from someone 14 that wants Hill Country Camp to match the City of Kerrville's 15 permits. It's really kind of an apples and oranges kind of 16 deal, okay? There are some real differences between the two, 17 one of which is that Hill Country Camp's proposing 18 25,000 gallons a day. The City of Kerrville does 19 4.5 million gallons per day. I mean, this discharge is 20 dwarfed by that. I mean, based on that just simply alone, 21 regardless of the effluent limits between the two permits, we 22 aren't that far apart. I mean, at 4.5 million a day, how 23 many -- which one do you think would be actually discharging 24 more pollutants, pounds per day into the water? In my 25 opinion, it would be the 4.5 million gallons a day. 1-26-09 76 1 Another thing with regard to the City of 2 Kerrville's permit -- and I believe you all have a copy of 3 the Executive Director's response to comments on this matter. 4 And in that -- and in that document, they said that 5 Kerrville's limits are set to insure their more stringent 6 limits that everybody wants to see Hill Country Camp do. 7 These are set in order to insure that the 4 milligrams a 8 liter of dissolved oxygen is met. Well, there's more than 9 one way to skin a cat. Hill Country Camp's permit is written 10 to do the same thing. When it's not a discharge directly 11 into Guadalupe River, you have an unnamed tributary that's 12 dry most of the year, and then it -- before it would even run 13 into Town Creek or into the Guadalupe River, it's just a 14 different situation, and there's a different way to 15 accomplish the same dissolved oxygen. 16 I'm going to kind of get off the soapbox as far as 17 -- as far as our opinion on the effect on the environment, 18 but just so I'm clear, we think, and T.C.E.Q. also thinks 19 that this proposed discharge is not going to be harmful to 20 the environment by itself. However, I do see this resolution 21 as -- as your viewpoint that you're concerned about the 22 environment, and -- and we definitely respect the fact that 23 you want us to take a look at other options, and that you're 24 concerned about -- really, just concerned about the 25 environment itself. But, as -- as written, we are against 1-26-09 77 1 this resolution, because the proposed discharge would already 2 be protective of the environment. However, I'm getting the 3 impression that that's not going to happen today as far as 4 deciding to just not pass a resolution at all. So, in light 5 of that, if you do decide to pass a resolution, I just want 6 you to know that Hill Country Camp, we do respect your 7 concern, and we will not take it lightly. And, so, I did 8 offer an amended resolution. If I may, let me pass around 9 copies. These were included with the clerk's record. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 11 MR. SHOEMAKER: And I can just run through it 12 really quick. In the next to last -- in the -- I think in 13 the second paragraph, it says that the discharge "may" impact 14 the Guadalupe instead of "will." Our position, and in 15 addition to the T.C.E.Q.'s position, is that this will not 16 impact negatively the Guadalupe River. So, along that line, 17 I thought a fair compromise would just be to say it may 18 impact, just because it's not a guarantee. In fact, we don't 19 believe it will at all. Also -- just some of the key ones -- 20 at the next-to-last paragraph, I suggest changing "treatment" 21 to "disposal," and "approved" to "permitted," mainly 'cause 22 it's a little bit of a term of art, and also because I think 23 the point here, what you're -- you're suggesting is that 24 where we dispose of the treated effluent, not necessarily how 25 it gets treated. 1-26-09 78 1 Some people may beg to differ, but I think the 2 point of today's resolution was to determine where the 3 effluent would be disposed of. In addition, toward the 4 middle of the resolution, I did add basically some key 5 language from the Executive Director's response to comments. 6 I have a copy of that, if you like -- if you'd like another 7 one. In a nutshell, Commissioner Baldwin, you pointed out 8 that everybody had kind of given you -- given you all their 9 viewpoint on it, and I think that it's important in your 10 resolution to incorporate the Executive Director's weigh-in 11 on it as well. Mainly, I just want to thank you again for 12 giving us the opportunity to make it down here. I appreciate 13 it, and I'm more than happy to answer all questions if I -- 14 if I'm capable of doing so. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 16 MR. SHOEMAKER: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me come back to Mr. Jim Olafson. 18 Now that the representative from Hill Country Camp has 19 spoken, do you wish to exercise your right to speak, 20 Mr. Olafson? 21 MR. JIM OLAFSON: The only problem I have is, if 22 this 25,000 gallons that won't affect anything -- they have 23 a tank on their place. Why don't they just dump it their own 24 place if it doesn't affect anybody and it won't even get to 25 my lake? That's all. Just, if they want to be neighborly, 1-26-09 79 1 just dump it in their own little tank. Keep it. They say 2 25,000 gallons is a water hose; won't even get down the 3 tributary. Fine. Keep on it their place. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Ms. Bonnie Olafson, 5 also from 160 Turkey Run. 6 MS. OLAFSON: Yes. I'm a property -- our property 7 is the first in line to receive the effluent from the camp. 8 He quoted the T.C.E.Q. study, and I have to say, I was really 9 disappointed in what a shallow investigation the T.C.E.Q. 10 did. They worked from the old aerial paragraph, estimated 11 the depth of the water. It was just guesswork. The 12 photograph they worked from did not show my son's house, 13 which is 123 feet from their proposed discharge route. It's 14 also within 200 feet of their well, and they're going to be 15 running this stuff right next to their dwelling. Most of the 16 year, most years, the -- we trap the water in our lake, and 17 during the hot months of the year, four to six months, it 18 doesn't go anywhere; it just sits there. And right now, 19 we're at 10 months where it hasn't flowed, and we're still a 20 foot and a half, 2 feet from the top of the dam. Now, when 21 that stuff sits there stewing in the summer sun and the water 22 evaporates, what do you think the bacterial and chemical 23 concentrations will become? We won't have a fish left in 24 that lake. Plus when it does start to flow, it will be a 25 much nastier stew than what the T.C.E.Q. has estimated. 1-26-09 80 1 Now, with this protest, I have written and told 2 them the parameters. Oh, the model they used said that the 3 water wouldn't flow for one week a year. Nonsense. Absolute 4 nonsense. If they had talked to anybody from around there -- 5 I've lived on that property 28 years, and I know what the 6 flow is. And they made no attempt to talk to anybody, to 7 look at anything. They just worked from an aerial 8 photograph, and I don't think they did a very thorough job. 9 And I hope, with the new information they got from our 10 letters, that they will come up with the correct numbers this 11 time around. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Olafson. 13 MS. OLAFSON: Oh, could I ask for a show of hands 14 of those here who are against the camp dumping their 15 effluent? 16 (Many audience members raised their hand.) 17 AUDIENCE: Will the lawyer please turn around and 18 see these hands? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Point made, I think, Ms. Olafson. 20 Tommy Olafson, 1306 -- 21 MR. TOMMY OLAFSON: 1308. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: 1308? 23 MR. TOMMY OLAFSON: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Harper. 25 MR. TOMMY OLAFSON: Yes, sir. As my mom just said, 1-26-09 81 1 my house is about 200 feet from the proposed discharge route. 2 I just want to start out saying -- I want to go on record 3 saying I'm opposed to the approval of Hill Country Camp's 4 permit. I'm not saying I'm opposed to them building a plant. 5 I'm opposed to the direct discharge they're planning on 6 doing. My wife and I had started a web site to mainly aware 7 the -- make the community aware of what was going on, because 8 initially there was only, like, 15 letters put out by the 9 T.C.E.Q. letting people know of the camp's plans. Since then 10 we've had a petition go around; we've got, up to date, 490 11 signatures of concerned members of the hill country who are 12 also opposed to direct discharge. 13 I guess my wife and I feel there are more 14 eco-friendly alternatives to the -- to direct discharge 15 available to Hill Country Camp. They have 128 acres, 16 according to their application, which I think is more than 17 enough acreage to do some more eco-friendly alternatives, via 18 underground lateral, they can make their own field, I mean, 19 irrigate with it. There's a bunch of alternatives. Now, I 20 understand alternatives may cost a little bit more. I mean, 21 what they're looking at, in my opinion, is the cheapest and 22 easiest route, which I can't blame them, I mean. But, 23 obviously, they've said the -- they've spent $3 million on 24 improvements. They have plans for a $6 million lodge. 25 Obviously, they have the money. You know, I don't know, you 1-26-09 82 1 know, if it costs a little bit more, but how can you put a 2 price on doing the right thing, is what my main concern is. 3 To some of the things their lawyer said earlier 4 that I don't agree with, they say it's such a low amount of 5 water coming, maybe 1 inch -- a 1-inch garden hose running 24 6 hours. If you ever let your garden hose run for 24 hours in 7 your yard, it eventually gets saturated, and it's going to 8 run; I don't care. May take a week, may take a month, may 9 take a year, but it's going to be flowing onto our property 10 sometime, and that's private property. And that's -- they 11 don't have our permission. This is America. I think you 12 need permission if you're going to dump something on your 13 neighbor. There -- he made the comment that it's only 14 25,000 gallons. That's right now. He commented they are a 15 growing camp. Someday, five years, ten years -- I mean, the 16 home I built is around an estate. That's it; that's the one 17 house. I'll be there till I die. That may take 50 years. 18 So, their 25,000 gallons now may be 750,000 gallons someday. 19 I don't know. It's going to be a lot of water coming onto 20 me, and I don't want it. That's the main thing. 21 They say it's -- where they've proposed to put the 22 plant I have an objection to, because if something goes 23 wrong, it's not going to -- you know, their -- it's right on 24 the corner of their property, so if they have a broken pipe, 25 malfunction, power outage, I don't care -- I don't care what 1-26-09 83 1 you got. I mean, your brand new truck will be in the shop 2 someday. So, sometime they're going to have a problem, and 3 I'm going to be the one that has to deal with it, and that's 4 not right. If they put it on their property, way back in the 5 back 128 acres, they can locate it where if it -- if 6 something goes wrong, they can contain it. Where they are 7 right now, if something goes wrong, it's only, maybe, I don't 8 know, 800 feet from Town Creek, so then that's going to 9 affect everybody. So, they need to move it. It might cost 10 them a little bit more, like I said, but it's the right thing 11 to do. Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Olafson. The next 13 participation form was filed by Pia -- 14 MR. TOMMY OLAFSON: That's my wife. She's unable 15 to attend. She had to step out. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The next one, Mr. Jim Haynie, 136 17 Aermotor, Mountain Home, Texas. 18 MR. HAYNIE: Thank you, gentlemen. I'm Jim Haynie 19 from Mountain Home. Most of y'all know me as a water well 20 contractor. I primarily deal with fresh water rather than 21 wastewater, home water systems. Been here, licensed in the 22 state of Texas. I would urge you to pass this resolution, 23 because I feel it's not in the best interests of the citizens 24 of Kerr County the way it's currently written and proposed. 25 The background most of y'all have already heard, so I won't 1-26-09 84 1 go into the background, but the issue to me is that, yes, 2 this permit has been properly filed. The lawyers have made 3 very sure that all the information required on the permit is 4 properly filed, but to me, it's an issue of will they be able 5 to comply with this permit over the long time? If that -- 6 the way I understand it, the requirements for wastewater are 7 virtually the same as the city, but the city has a staff that 8 operates this plant at its highest efficiency, and they're 9 always prepared and ready to do whatever it takes to make 10 sure that the city does a good job. And I didn't see that in 11 the comments and the input from Hill Country Camp, so that 12 there is a great possibility of discharge that we really 13 don't want. 14 My recommendation is that the water be treated in 15 accordance with this -- this permit, but instead of being 16 discharged across Mr. Olafson's land, that it be reused upon 17 their own site, treated to a high degree and then sprinkled. 18 And he's pointed out that's only a 1-inch garden hose. Well, 19 with all the landscaping they have, a 1-inch garden hose is 20 pretty easy to use around that place. And so that's my 21 recommendation, that you approve this resolution, and 22 hopefully someone at T.C.E.Q. and Hill Country Camp will see 23 that -- that we think it's not in the best interests and that 24 there are better ways for them to use their treated effluent. 25 Thank you. 1-26-09 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I thank you, Mr. Haynie. The next 2 was filed -- next participation form was filed by William R. 3 Rector, address at 705 Water Street, Kerrville. 4 DR. RECTOR: Thank you, Honorable Judge, Honorable 5 Commissioners. I'm here also representing Dr. Pruneda. We 6 drew straws to find out who would come over. One of us had 7 to stay at the hospital, so I think I lost. So, we are here 8 today, Dr. Pruneda and myself, to support your resolution. 9 We think that it is the right thing to do, and we appreciate 10 you doing it. Unfortunately, the T.C.E.Q. can't make that 11 recommendation. All they can do is act upon the application 12 that was filed, so I think it is very appropriate for you 13 gentlemen to weigh in on alternative means of handling this 14 discharge. And I would like to say that I -- I feel like 15 that the camp can take a liability from their neighbors and 16 make it an asset for themselves. If they use this discharge 17 to sprinkle on their own property, they can have beautiful 18 soccer fields, they can have beautiful baseball fields, they 19 can have beautiful shrubbery and beautiful flowers on that 20 camp and make it a beautiful garden spot. Water is valuable 21 in the hill country, and to send it downstream is not 22 utilizing that water very efficiently. And I would like to 23 thank you for your motion, and encourage to you pass it. 24 Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there anyone 1-26-09 86 1 else who did not file a participation form that wishes to be 2 heard on this issue? I want to give you the opportunity. 3 Anyone else? Yes, ma'am, if you'll come forward, give us 4 your name and address and your input on this subject, please. 5 MS. McMILLEN: I'm Marie McMillen, 1621 Indian 6 Creek Loop, Kerrville, Texas. I have only one question, and 7 that is, where is all this water coming from? We are in an 8 extreme drought, and even despite that, I think 9 25,000 gallons per day is a heck of a lot of water, which 10 could be better used some other way than putting it into the 11 ditch and then into Town Creek. But I'm extremely concerned 12 about water. I think that's a problem throughout this 13 country, throughout the world. Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else? 15 Mr. Shoemaker? 16 MR. SHOEMAKER: If I may just offer a very brief 17 reply? Okay. I just wanted to point out a couple of things. 18 One, Hill Country Camp is -- you know, we submitted our 19 application for this in June 2007. To say it lightly, we're 20 -- we're already deeply invested in where we're at so far. 21 However, in addition to that, you know, obtaining a permit is 22 not necessarily the last thing. So, in a nutshell, I wanted 23 to give everybody a chance to kind of voice their concerns, 24 but at the same time, I just wanted you to know that -- that 25 it's just not cost-effective to just completely hit the 1-26-09 87 1 restart button. So I think, in all fairness, I'm asking you 2 to at least keep in mind in your resolution to maybe leave -- 3 leave flexibility to options post permit issuance, because 4 there -- there are options out there. But, you know, our 5 hands are tied with some of them; I can't say exactly which 6 ones would be possible to do. Just depending on the cost and 7 the technology behind it. But, you know, getting the permit 8 is not necessarily the end of the road. Thanks. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 10 MS. BARBER: Could I say something since -- on the 11 back of what he said? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I thought it appropriate to 13 allow him -- you know, there were some that wanted to speak 14 after him, only after he spoke, and I don't want to start 15 round two and then round three. 16 MS. BARBER: I won't. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a promise? 18 MS. BARBER: Yes. Just basically, I've been 19 involved in a lot of nonprofit issues, and when you go before 20 your community and you're going to build something, you seek 21 input prior to putting something on the plan. You bring your 22 community in and you say, look, we want to be a good 23 neighbor, and here's what we're thinking about doing. Could 24 you get along with us and all that. And that's what we have 25 not had at all. 1-26-09 88 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get your name and address on 2 the record. 3 MS. BARBER: Wendy Barber, 119 McCullough Ranch 4 Road. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Okay, that's going to 6 close it up. Any member of the Court have anything to offer 7 in addition to what we've heard here today with regard to the 8 motion that's before the Court? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only comment I'd 10 like is -- you know, I intend to vote for the resolution, but 11 I also think it's very likely that the facility's going to go 12 in as permitted, and I hope everyone -- hope that they -- 13 their attorney would -- Mr. Shoemaker was, you know, accurate 14 in saying that they'll continue to work with the community. 15 What I heard him say at the very end -- I'm not sure 16 everybody heard the same thing -- was that -- that if the 17 permit gets approved, there are still things that they can 18 do, and hopefully will do, to meet some of the concerns. 19 And, you know, we have no control over the permit; all we can 20 do is pass a resolution. But if this thing does proceed, I 21 hope that y'all can get together and work things out. That's 22 it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I just want to make 25 one other comment. As you can see, Mr. Shoemaker, the stand 1-26-09 89 1 that the community takes, like Mr. Letz just said, we -- we 2 certainly don't tell T.C.E.Q. what to do, and more 3 importantly, I don't tell these people what to do. They tell 4 me what to do. And I have been on the wrong side of the 5 fence with a couple of these folks, and life is unpleasant at 6 times. (Laughter.) My whole thing here, once again, is if 7 that camp wants to be good neighbors, you better try to get 8 along with these folks. If you don't, or if you're not 9 interested in being a good neighbor to these people, then you 10 continue with what you're doing. I can tell you that, and 11 that's all -- that's all I'm saying. And I'd like to -- our 12 resolution to stand as written, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, your motion speaks for the 14 resolution that you've offered, Commissioner. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It sounds like, from 16 listening to members of the public -- I guess I'm really 17 addressing this comment to counsel for the camp. It does 18 sound like there are other issues other than just the 19 discharge into a tributary that reaches Town Creek, which 20 ultimately reaches the Guadalupe River. And I think in your 21 efforts to be the good neighbor that you say you would like 22 to be, and I have no reason to believe that you won't be, I 23 think you ought to examine those issues. Most notably in my 24 mind was the placement of the treatment plant in terms of 25 proximity on your property and proximity to other property 1-26-09 90 1 owners. That's an issue. I can really relate to the 2 individual who talked about that. If I had property out 3 there, I would be most upset if, all of a sudden, I see you 4 build a -- a wastewater treatment plant within the setback 5 limits as posted by Kerr County on my property line. That 6 would really bug me. And so I think you need to examine all 7 of the issues that the folks here today have talked to you 8 about. I urge you to do that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I was concerned about the 10 comments of -- and this may be closing the gate after the 11 cows got out, but Ms. Olafson's concern that they didn't make 12 inquiry of the neighbors to find out the configuration of 13 these water containments. I don't know what they knew about 14 the depths, or whether they just ballparked or took a shot in 15 the dark at it. Anybody that's been up and down that road of 16 late, I think it's readily apparent that, really, that lake, 17 or a good portion of it, is really quite shallow. And I'm 18 concerned about the lack of factual gathering that -- that 19 has apparently occurred in connection with the research done 20 to look at the dilution or non-dilution of -- of these 21 components that are going to end up in this containment. 22 Another gentleman brought us some figures. The ammonia 23 figures are quite disturbing. That is anywhere from 6 to 12 24 times in excess. And if bluegills are at .2, good gosh, that 25 would be really off the chart, wouldn't it? About 30 times 1-26-09 91 1 greater than what's recommended under E.P.A. I assume they 2 have the -- the various charts that they use at T.C.E.Q. 3 But, as all of you know, my wife's the fisherman in 4 the bunch, but I still know what -- what a bluegill is. 5 That's a common perch, a brim, and that's probably the most 6 common fish we've got around, and if we start killing those 7 off, then the chain just starts collapsing from there. But 8 I'm concerned about some of the -- of the factual aspects 9 that apparently weren't brought into play. And I don't know 10 how many more of these scientific components are out there 11 that are akin to the ammonia, but that's quite disturbing, 12 and it concerns me for the residents of the area, and 13 particularly the immediate downstream owners that are going 14 to necessarily be containing that discharge unless and until 15 it goes over -- freeboards and goes over the top of that dam. 16 And there can be a lot that occurs between those two time 17 periods. Even if we got a decent rain, it may take a while 18 to -- to start going over that dam again. But those are my 19 concerns, and for whatever it's worth. Any -- any other 20 comments? Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just -- the good 22 neighbor thing means a lot. And also, you know, it's like we 23 had the issue with the tiger getting loose last weekend. 24 That lady that owned the cat was very concerned with her 25 neighbors' safety, and then feeling a little better about her 1-26-09 92 1 cat being able to return, so she agreed to do some excessive 2 things in order to exceed the limit, you know, what the state 3 requires, to try to get along with her neighbors. And that 4 is an issue. And I believe when you're talking about water 5 running downstream and you run it into a lake that's a -- 6 basically a -- nothing more than an impound when you do not 7 have any flow, I'd be concerned too. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would want somebody to take 10 extra precautions for their own good, as well as their 11 neighbor. And it's just -- it's the right thing to do; I 12 agree with those statements, and also the technical stuff 13 plays into it as well. That's it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have before us the motion that 15 Commissioner Baldwin made. Any further question or 16 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let us now 22 go to Agenda Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 23 action to approve an agreement between Kerr County and Groves 24 and Associates for project management services for Center 25 Point/Eastern Kerr County wastewater project. Commissioner 1-26-09 93 1 Williams? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. This is 3 the last item I think we need to put in place to get our work 4 underway, and it is a proposed agreement for project 5 management services for -- for the wastewater project. The 6 Court recalls that our obligation under the grant agreement 7 with T.W.D.B. is for $59,500, 25 percent of the project cost. 8 And of that amount, we are obligated for at least $29,750 in 9 cash for services that need to be rendered for this project, 10 and 29,750 for in-kind services. I don't want to bore the 11 Court with what this is all about, but I'll give you a little 12 sense of what a project manager is going to be required to 13 do. And these are things that I can't do, or I don't think 14 Commissioner Letz can do, unless he's been to engineering 15 school since the last time I talked to him. 16 But just a little sense of it is, under -- under 17 category -- Planning Category B, existing facilities and 18 problems, documentation of public consent for construction, 19 including any and all -- whatever's required by the County, 20 T.W.D.B., T.C.E.Q. regulations, interested parties. Work 21 with the County in the planning and executing of public 22 meetings, including providing all documentation and 23 presentation materials for these meetings, and work with us 24 in the composing of advertisements and placing them at the 25 proper time and working with us in terms of recorded public 1-26-09 94 1 consent. Under the Category C, alternatives and designs, 2 overall assistance with identification and evaluation of all 3 alternatives, including in particular updating of connection 4 requirements of Kerrville and Comfort -- that's taking a look 5 at it going both ways -- including coordination with relevant 6 utilities and other agencies to confirm the details of 7 current requirements and the ability to provide service, 8 collaboration and review and engineering evaluations of all 9 alternatives developed, including both development and 10 evaluation criteria, and review of the final evaluations. 11 Under Planning Category D, work out with the engineers who 12 are doing the grunt work total project budget, including all 13 relevant design acquisition and construction costs, and et 14 cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 15 The cost of the contract for project management is 16 $29,750. We encumbered, if you recall, from our 2008 17 budget -- we actually encumbered an amount a little bit 18 greater than that. Our in-kind service, I've worked out with 19 our County Auditor how we would proceed to record our end of 20 the in-kind bargain, which also has to total at least 21 $29,750, and that would involve this Commissioner, and any 22 time that Commissioner Letz puts in on the project, our time, 23 and any costs for travel and expenses associated with the 24 project; time of the County Judge in public meetings, 25 anything that's involved with the Court being involved in the 1-26-09 95 1 project; our administrative assistant coordinating meetings, 2 agendas, and doing public notices and advertisements, again, 3 time and expenses; our Environmental Health Department 4 assisting and coordinating with the Texas Department of 5 Health study, providing materials, and necessary time and 6 testing; and County Attorney preparing necessary resolutions, 7 reviewing all our legal documents, including hookup policy 8 and Subdivision Rules, some of which has already taken place, 9 and we'll take credit for that time as well; Auditor's office 10 in terms of providing accounting records, preparing pay 11 invoices, and tracking -- generally tracking the project, and 12 attending meetings where required, time and expenses; our 13 court reporter, time and expenses for preparing -- attending 14 meetings and preparing minutes, so that we know exactly who 15 said what, when and where. And we will keep timesheets 16 accurately of any and all of these and any other expenses 17 that we may incur as part of our in-kind. 18 So, the -- the proposal is in front of you for 19 Mr. Al Groves, who no longer is with Tetra Tech. He was with 20 Tetra Tech when the RFP went out, and was part of the -- the 21 whole plan from the very beginning. He now acts as a 22 consultant, and will work with that agency who is doing the 23 basic engineer service work. His service -- his contract 24 would be for 29,750. Our in-kind has to total that much as 25 well. Commissioner Letz, want to add anything? 1-26-09 96 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I think you pretty much 2 covered it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Williams, I'm 4 curious about one thing. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The in-kind side of it, you 7 and Commissioner Letz, what do y'all charge? Like, $3 or $4 8 a day? Or, I mean -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About three, four hundred 10 an hour. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three or four hundred an 12 hour? (Laughter.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like lawyers, doesn't it, 14 Buster? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly, you guys -- y'all 16 think a little more of yourselves than I do. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know, but we'll 18 work with the Auditor to come up with what our hourly rate 19 would be. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three or four dollars a day 21 would do it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hourly rate's going to be 23 pretty easily determined. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it will. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you. 1-26-09 97 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good round number, though. 2 I would move approval of the project management services 3 agreement with Groves and Associates for Center Point/East 4 Kerr County wastewater project. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Question or discussion? Mr. Groves has -- he's 8 been -- irrespective of who he's with, he's been the lead guy 9 on this thing from the get-go. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very, very much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or comments? All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jump to 18 first? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we'll go to Item 18; to 19 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to receive 20 update from the Kerr County Tax Assessor and/or Kerr Central 21 Appraisal District concerning problems with tax statements 22 and/or notices and how to prevent problems from happening 23 again. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, may I make a 25 suggestion? Why don't you call 17 and 18 at the same time? 1-26-09 98 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody on the Court have any 2 problem with that? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me also call Item 17; consider, 5 discuss, and take appropriate action to allow County Attorney 6 and County Auditor to pursue recommendation involving Tyler 7 Technology. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before we get started on 9 this, I'm going to probably have to step out before we're 10 done with this. I need to leave. My -- you don't care. 11 Anyway, I've got to pick up kids at school. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's not buying lunch, is 13 what he's saying. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly what he's 15 saying. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I put these both on 17 the agenda, but I think everyone on the Court is a little bit 18 aware of them. I know the Tax Assessor is. I'm glad, 19 Fourth, you got notice of this. And I asked you -- put 20 you -- included you primarily because of things I heard from 21 the public was that part of the problem was y'all's 22 responsibility. And I don't know if that's true or not, but 23 I think, certainly, if it is or not, that needs to be aired 24 as well. But, to me, this is a -- a huge problem, and a 25 really bad problem that needs to be -- find out how big it 1-26-09 99 1 is, which I'm not sure we know that, and I don't believe -- 2 I'm not real comfortable looking at Tyler Technologies to 3 tell us. They created the problem -- part of the problem, 4 anyway, so I've been told. But we really need to get to the 5 bottom of that, and if Tyler Technologies is at fault on some 6 of this, this just goes onto the rest of the problems that I 7 keep on hearing about Tyler Technologies, and that's -- I 8 think that really needs to be looked into. We spent a lot of 9 money on this software, and I can't believe it's all operator 10 error. That's just kind of my opening comments. I'll turn 11 it over to Diane. 12 MS. BOLIN: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Fourth. 14 MS. BOLIN: Update on the tax statements. The 15 report that showed 483 was a wrong report. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is right? 17 MS. BOLIN: The young lady that did it, I asked her 18 to give me a list of properties with value -- taxable value 19 and zero levy. There were only ten properties on that list. 20 You and Donald were part of them. Jonathan was on the list. 21 So, it's like -- okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't know I was on there. 23 MS. BOLIN: So -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two good reasons to get it 25 straightened out. 1-26-09 100 1 MS. BOLIN: Very good. And I'm glad that they were 2 involved, so -- up to a point. I don't want anybody involved 3 and not get a tax statement. But, I got the ten corrected 4 last week. I've got the statements ready to mail. The 5 supplement issue we're having is also a calculation issue. 6 The information that I get from the Appraisal District, there 7 are several stages that I go through where I make sure 8 everything still balances. They always balance on the 9 import, and then after the import is where it starts falling 10 apart, when it's actually being put into the system. So, 11 that part, I don't know what to do. At this point, I have no 12 confidence in the system. Personally, I don't like giving 13 the information to the taxpayers, because I can't be sure 14 it's correct, and then when it's not correct, then it's me, 15 or they're after the Appraisal District. We're doing the 16 best we can with the products we have. Her -- Sharon's 17 system, their software company is fully aware of the problems 18 that we're having and are working on it. Tyler just says 19 it's their -- their software's problem, and they calculate 20 wrong, so I don't know where to go from here. So I'm just -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does Tyler say again? 22 Tell me what Tyler says again? 23 MS. BOLIN: They said -- they have told me more 24 than once that True Automation, who is the company that the 25 Appraisal District has, does not calculate the freezes and 1-26-09 101 1 the exemptions and the prorations correctly. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 MS. BOLIN: But they do, so it's a True Automation 4 problem. But when it comes over, it should give me some kind 5 of report to say, okay, these are what's not -- these are 6 what the problems are so that I can go fix them. It does to 7 a point, but it doesn't give me all of them. And short of me 8 going property by property by property, and some of these 9 that have over 1,000 properties, and looking at what the 10 Appraisal District sent and what our system accepted, I don't 11 know what to do. I know Ms. Hargis wants to do an audit 12 going back for the last three years since we've had the 13 system. I don't know what she'll be able to find out. I 14 don't know how she'll go about doing it. Tyler, at this 15 point -- I got two phone calls on Friday from other tax 16 collectors stating that Tyler is telling them that it is a 17 user problem, and I'm up to here with user problems. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask -- 19 MS. BOLIN: If I can't follow their directions and 20 get it done, then -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you one more 22 question, please. 23 MS. BOLIN: Certainly. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, our -- our program, the 25 County's program, Tyler says the problem is the Appraisal 1-26-09 102 1 District's -- 2 MS. BOLIN: Software. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- software? 4 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that true? 6 MS. BOLIN: I don't think so. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You receive the information 8 from the Appraisal District? 9 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's accurate numbers 11 and accurate -- 12 MS. BOLIN: From what I can tell, yeah. We do have 13 errors off and on, but not a substantial amount. And all I 14 do is call Sharon and say, "Hey, this doesn't compute. 15 What's the deal?" And she checks it out and gives me the 16 correct information for us to get it right. But when -- when 17 I do the initial import of the information from the Appraisal 18 District, their totals balance with what it shows that we 19 brought in. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MS. BOLIN: And then from there, it starts to break 22 down. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Does Tyler ever say, 24 "My goodness, we may be making a mistake here; we may have a 25 little problem of some sort." Do they? 1-26-09 103 1 MS. BOLIN: No. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They never say anything like 3 that? They always point to the gentleman from Medina? 4 MS. BOLIN: They point to the gentleman from Medina 5 and the young lady from out in Mountain Home and blame it on 6 them, as well as user error. It's consistently "user error." 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Bolin, have -- have you sought 8 the assistance from our I.T. Manager to confirm the validity 9 or not of all this? 10 MS. BOLIN: John's fully aware of the problems, and 11 he has been -- Dusty Womble talked to him on Thursday. He 12 told me he was the vice president; John says he's the 13 president. I don't know who he is, but he talked to John on 14 Thursday. John has been on the phone several times in the 15 last couple of weeks trying to get some kind of assistance in 16 getting this done, and we're just going nowhere from what I 17 can see. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz, how could you leave at 19 a time like this? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's tough. It's tough. 21 (Commissioner Letz left the courtroom.) 22 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, initially, a couple weeks -- 24 three weeks back, I asked for on-site training that we would 25 pay for, and I was looking to the Auditor actually to drum up 1-26-09 104 1 the money necessary out of budget to get on-site support, I 2 thought it was such a severe problem. But as a result of all 3 the coverage of the incorrect list, the massive problem 4 that's -- 10 properties affected now, we're going to receive 5 free on-site training, and hopefully work out all of Diane's 6 issues where she's getting conflicts, where the support 7 person at the other end of the phone right now is saying, 8 "Well, do this," and when Diane does that, it doesn't work. 9 And we need to sit down with support at the same table, with 10 the same paper in front of them, and figure out those 11 problems, and that's the purpose of the on-site. That is the 12 resolution to the issue, the solution. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: What you say is the first 14 opportunity of resolution. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Hopefully, that will be all 17 that's necessary, is additional -- by getting the person down 18 here, doing the on-site and going through all of these 19 difficulties and getting them worked out. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. And it is a complex system. 21 There are lots of complicated things that Central Appraisal 22 has to do. There are lots of pieces in the law, and I 23 understand this data's very complicated. One thing that Kerr 24 County -- we can do, and I made mention of this during the 25 last budget cycle with Diane and a couple of the other 1-26-09 105 1 elected officials that handle a lot of data, is -- is that we 2 may need -- we will need eventually to hire a database 3 analyst as part of my staff to be able to handle these kind 4 of problems in-house. Once we reach a certain number of 5 properties, a certain amount of data in the court system, the 6 Sheriff, the County Attorney, they need reports run that are 7 custom that the support just can't do, so eventually we'll 8 need in-house database analysis and support, and that's 9 essentially what it comes down to. The data is what we're 10 having problems with currently. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Has this problem happened in 12 the years past, the last -- the previous two years? 13 MS. BOLIN: Not that I'm aware of. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wonder what happened this 15 year that it's so different than the process in years past. 16 MS. BOLIN: This is the first year that Tyler has 17 loaded our levy. Whether it had something to do with what 18 they did regarding this House Bill 1010 that affected 19 overlapping properties, I don't have a clue. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You had some input? 21 MR. EMERSON: I just really had a question. I 22 guess this is for the Appraisal District, and it's a question 23 of -- has y'all's -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to get to their input 25 here in just a minute. They're another leg to the stool. If 1-26-09 106 1 you're through, Ms. Bolin, let's get their take on this 2 thing. I don't mean to run you off if you got some more for 3 us. Mr. Coates, did you draw the black bean? 4 MR. COATES: Well, I think I'm going to bring the 5 other black beans with me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MR. COATES: This is Sharon Capeheart; she's my 8 deputy. She keeps up on a daily basis with Diane and with 9 the transfers and the supplements. This is Kirk Griffin; 10 he's my chairman. And, as y'all know, we got a new system 11 two years ago, and we used to be on the same system. We used 12 to be with the same company you're with, Tyler Technologies. 13 We waited for a year, waiting for them to get the problem 14 solved with their appraisal software. My neighbor down in 15 Kendall County purchased the system, and ended up basically 16 just trashing it and going with the same company. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about the Tyler 18 system? 19 MR. COATES: Yes. So, their appraisal -- their 20 appraisal system has had problems from the get-go, and this 21 was the new system they called -- 22 MS. CAPEHEART: Orion or Odyssey. 23 MR. COATES: -- Orion or Odyssey. I called it 24 Space Odyssey because it was a mess at the time. And we were 25 in hopes that the County would be able to continue with the 1-26-09 107 1 same system we were with. We were basically forced to go 2 with True Automation. True Automation is basically the 3 Cadillac of the industry for appraisal software in the state 4 of Texas. There's been a huge brain drain from Tyler 5 Technologies over to True Automation, so that's a lot of the 6 problems. Long story short, we're willing to work any way we 7 can with the County and with Diane to resolve any issues that 8 are at hand. If there's anything that our software is doing 9 to y'all's software, I've already talked to the president of 10 the company -- of True Automation; they're willing to work 11 with Diane, with Tyler Technologies, with whomever to get 12 this issue resolved the quickest, the cheapest, and, you 13 know, the best way possible. 14 So, perfect world, it would be great if we were on 15 the same system. Now, we've got two other taxing entities 16 that are on the same system we're on. We have three other 17 appraisal districts that have overlapping jurisdictions that 18 are on the same system we are. So, basically, as far as the 19 appraisal districts, the majority of the appraisal 20 districts -- the vast majority of the appraisal districts 21 have switched over to True Automation from Tyler 22 Technologies. And I'm not one to -- you know, to point the 23 finger, blame anybody or anything; I'm more 24 solution-oriented. And, you know, that's what we're here 25 for. 1-26-09 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But being on different systems 2 certainly -- 3 MR. COATES: It makes -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- opens the door for difficulties? 5 MR. COATES: Yes, sir, definitely. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Emerson, you had a 7 question for Mr. Coates? 8 MR. EMERSON: He answered it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MR. COATES: And I -- Commissioner Baldwin, thank 11 you for those kind words. That's the first time you've ever 12 said I was a gentleman. I appreciate that. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 MR. COATES: You've been to my office several 15 times, and I never heard "gentleman" come out of your mouth. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've got it on the record; 17 we can get you copies of it. 18 MR. COATES: I'm going to frame it, put it up. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fourth? 20 MR. COATES: Yes? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Given that you're on a 22 different system than we are, can you talk to each other back 23 and forth? Is there a relationship? 24 MR. COATES: Yes. There's supposed to be, yeah. 25 There is an interface. 1-26-09 109 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Supposed to be. You can do 2 it? 3 MR. COATES: Well, not directly. 4 MS. CAPEHEART: The system you're currently on? 5 MR. COATES: Well, isn't there a transfer process? 6 MS. CAPEHEART: I send them e-mails, transfer 7 the -- 8 MR. COATES: She does this on a daily basis. 9 MS. CAPEHEART: I send the files to -- 10 MR. COATES: Why don't you tell them how it works. 11 MS. CAPEHEART: Basically, what we do is we make 12 the changes on our system, we close it out, and I create 13 files and I e-mail those to Diane. And we -- they're 14 referred to as supplements; that's what they show up as on 15 her system. That is -- and that's basically how it's been 16 working. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we access each other's 18 database? 19 MS. CAPEHEART: No. 20 MR. COATES: Not directly. 21 MS. CAPEHEART: No. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Now, the web site, you can access 23 both on a daily basis. 24 MS. CAPEHEART: Yeah, but that web site isn't up to 25 date now. 1-26-09 110 1 MR. TROLINGER: Which one? 2 MS. CAPEHEART: The True Automation one is the only 3 one we got. 4 MR. TROLINGER: It's not up to date? 5 MS. CAPEHEART: About every month. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Oh, I didn't realize it was not -- 7 it's not live? It's not real? 8 MS. CAPEHEART: No. No, it's not live. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, I stand corrected. Our 10 system's live. It's online instantly. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. EMERSON: Quick comment, Judge. We're talking 13 about being on the same system might resolve the problem. 14 We've been communicating with a number of other counties, and 15 I think it's interesting to note that San Patricio county is 16 using Tyler Technologies both in their CAD district and in 17 the county, and it's, quote, "been a nightmare since 2007." 18 That's in their e-mail. 19 MS. CAPEHEART: I actually spoke to that chief 20 appraiser on Friday, too. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be somewhat attributable to 22 the appraiser package that Mr. Coates mentioned was -- the 23 gentleman from Medina, I'll refer to him henceforth, that -- 24 that he referred to that he was hoping the bugs would get 25 worked out so he could go -- but they just couldn't wait any 1-26-09 111 1 longer. That's when you went with True Automation. 2 MR. EMERSON: I don't -- if I can add to that? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. 4 MR. EMERSON: I don't know which system the CAD 5 districts have in these counties, but we've received e-mails 6 from Hays County, Jackson County, Cochran County, San 7 Patricio County, Grayson County, Limestone County, and 8 Anderson County, and it's my understanding Gregg County also 9 has issues. And all those counties are having a heck of a 10 time with the same issues we are right now in their 11 present -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: In appraisal or in the tax office? 13 MR. EMERSON: In the offices. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With Tyler? 15 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MS. CAPEHEART: Can I add something? I spoke with 18 the chief appraiser from San Patricio on Friday, and he told 19 me the problem they were having being on both -- they're on 20 the same system on the appraisal and collection -- is things 21 would calculate out correctly on the appraisal, but as soon 22 as they transferred things to the tax side, it would totally 23 give them different numbers. That's what Diane is also 24 experiencing with our information. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Sheriff, you had two -- 1-26-09 112 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The information is being -- 2 being transferred properly. It's all correct when it comes 3 over here, but somehow when it gets loaded onto our system 4 and you ask it to do a different function, it's never 5 correct. Is that -- 6 MR. COATES: I wouldn't say never. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it has problems. 8 MR. COATES: There's more errors than we should 9 have. 10 MS. CAPEHEART: We've never been able to find a 11 consistency as to what triggers it not to work correctly. 12 And that's kind of what the chief appraiser from San Patricio 13 is telling me too, and that they were finding it was dropping 14 accounts off on the tax side of that too. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can tell you that mine's at 16 zero, and I knew I hadn't paid my taxes. 17 MS. CAPEHEART: Uh-huh. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I'm sorry, Bruce. 19 Question for the I.T. guy. Mr. I.T. guy, if we were to 20 change the Tax Assessor/Collector's module out of the Odyssey 21 system, what does that do to our interoperability between 22 other things -- functions that we have? 23 MR. TROLINGER: You mean if we change to the same 24 system, True Automation? Well, we had the opportunity in 25 2005 to work this out, and we didn't then. I don't know if 1-26-09 113 1 we'll be able to now. 2 MR. COATES: Sure, I think we can. 3 MR. TROLINGER: But initially -- my initial -- 4 perfect world was to have both entities on the same server. 5 That -- that isn't going to happen. The next best thing is 6 that we be on the same manufacturer's -- the same provider's 7 system. That didn't happen, so now here we are in 2009 with 8 major problems. And it was pretty easy to see it coming as a 9 result of all that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you missed the 11 thrust of my question. My question was, if we were to change 12 modules and go to a different software provider, like the 13 Appraisal District has done, what does that do for our 14 continued interoperability within the framework of our broad 15 system, our financial package? What does that do to us? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Right. So, if we undo that history 17 and -- and make a big change right now and go to True 18 Automation, and go through all that conversion -- is that 19 what you're asking? If we switch systems? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think his question is, how is it 21 going to affect the rest of the county being on Tyler 22 Technologies? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my question. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Oh, it's a completely independent 25 system from the courts and law enforcement and financial. 1-26-09 114 1 It's -- the Tax Office is on its own server. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're saying nothing? 3 No -- no impact -- 4 MR. TROLINGER: As far as -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to anything else? 6 MR. TROLINGER: As far as the other systems? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the financial realm. 8 MS. BOLIN: Right. 9 MR. TROLINGER: As far as our tax collection, 10 correct. 11 MS. BOLIN: Right. We're not connected at all with 12 the financial part of it with our tax package. 13 MR. GRIFFIN: Fourth mentioned something that I 14 think is key to part of that; it's why -- one of the reasons 15 that we went the route we did several years ago. Kerrville 16 ISD, Ingram ISD, all the -- and several others, the big 17 players that -- that the Appraisal District deals with on a 18 daily basis, had previously gone to True Automation. So, 19 when we -- one of our -- when the board sat down and said, 20 "Okay, we need new software 'cause we're held together with 21 bandaids and bubble gum right now," one of the reasons we 22 went that direction was because the entities that we support, 23 other than y'all, had already made that move, and it looked 24 like it was going to be a good software program. And, 25 to-date, it has been for us. So, one of the reasons we did 1-26-09 115 1 it was to be in line with our entities. As I said, except 2 for y'all. Nothing personal in that one. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand your point. 4 MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure my point is -- 6 MR. GRIFFIN: I understand -- I understand where 7 you're going, but I -- I just kind of wanted to put that in 8 there, that K.I.S.D., as well as Ingram -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what I'm hearing here is 11 probably the utopian solution, if it can be done feasibly, 12 would be to switch the tax package over to True Automation so 13 that it's compatible with all of the other folks doing the 14 same or similar work, and that that will not affect the law 15 enforcement, the courts, generally administrative packages, 16 because it's a stand-alone module. Is that -- 17 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in summary what I'm hearing? 19 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. And the Sheriff. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What kind of cost does Tyler 22 need to pay to have that system installed? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Let me answer that real quick, 24 'cause in 2005 we were looking at $91,000 for Tyler 25 Technologies versus $127,000 for True Automation. And at the 1-26-09 116 1 time, Central Appraisal said they were not going to switch 2 software systems, or were going to stay with what they had, 3 so we chose the lowest cost -- 4 MR. COATES: We never said that. 5 MR. TROLINGER: -- at the time. At the time, you 6 know, it's -- what do you choose? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we are where we are. Let's 8 see where we're going. I think that's the important thing. 9 Sheriff? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The issue -- and with Diane 11 saying she found that it had 10 properties, I got a phone 12 call even at my residence from one of our taxpayers, and this 13 taxpayer's taxes alone for the county are over 30,000, okay? 14 And he did not get a tax bill from the County at all this 15 year. He got -- and when he called to check on it, he did 16 get his Ingram school taxes. Now, part of his property's 17 also in Kerrville. He -- he did not get his Kerrville taxes, 18 his K.I.S.D. taxes, or his county, okay? When he called to 19 check on it, what he was told -- and I don't know what this 20 is, or whether it's true or not, but what he was told -- and 21 I'm just not going to put out the name, even though I have 22 it -- by somebody at the Tax Office was that if you protested 23 or appealed your taxes, you did not get a bill this year. 24 MS. BOLIN: Exactly. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That the Appraisal District or 1-26-09 117 1 whatever had -- that information -- all that information had 2 gotten lost. So, every taxpayer that appealed their taxes 3 did not get a tax bill this year, so I would assume that's 4 going to be a lot more than 10. The other thing is -- is 5 that they were told -- you know, this man said, "What am I 6 supposed to do?" There wasn't an answer to that. So, he 7 came down and paid it off his estimated, and said the heck 8 with whatever the -- the appeal did. But that's City of 9 Kerrville taxes and everything else. That anybody that 10 appealed theirs, according to what he was told, didn't get a 11 tax -- 12 MS. BOLIN: The way that that works is, the 13 Appraisal District flags it for the Appraisal Review Board 14 hearings, and until that time, Tyler does not load any of the 15 information for A.R.B. hearings on the system. I have talked 16 to them the last two years about it, and they said it's 17 just -- they can't pay on it. Well, according to law, 18 they're supposed to pay the unprotested amount. But we can't 19 collect it because we don't have anything, because Tyler 20 doesn't want to accept what the Appraisal District sent to 21 us. And I do know the school districts have the A.R.B. 22 information, but we don't get it, because Tyler says we're 23 not supposed to have it until the A.R.B. hearing is over. 24 And personally, I think that's wrong, 'cause that gives us no 25 information at all for the current year. 1-26-09 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That goes back to the 2 question I asked earlier, if there was -- if there was 3 interface between these two systems. Can we take data from 4 their system and vica-versa? Now you're telling me no. 5 MS. BOLIN: Well, no, we can't do it if they have a 6 flag on it. Otherwise, we take the information that they 7 send us. 8 MS. HYDE: There's not an interface, what he's 9 asking. 10 MR. TROLINGER: To uncomplicate it, to bring some 11 understanding to it, it's about the data and it's about 12 bringing the data from the Central Appraisal into our system. 13 And when that flag occurs and we have to bring that new data 14 in from True Automation into our system, there's a problem in 15 Tyler Technologies apparently saying, well, it needs to be 16 flagged one way, and we don't have the capability to do 17 otherwise. So, that talks again to my database analyst 18 comment earlier. We need someone at some point that can 19 handle this data in-house to resolve these issues. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, what my guy's telling me 21 is right; everybody that appealed their taxes didn't get a 22 tax bill this year, and still haven't. 23 MS. BOLIN: From us. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: From here. 25 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 1-26-09 119 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. He got his Ingram 2 share. But from -- if they appealed their taxes, they didn't 3 get it from the County. 4 MS. BOLIN: Didn't get it from Kerr County. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We contract with the City and 6 K.I.S.D.? 7 MS. BOLIN: Yes -- not K.I.S.D., but the City. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The City. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: City, Headwaters, U.G.R.A. 10 MS. BOLIN: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, those of the lesser entities. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many people appealed 13 their taxes here and still haven't yet -- 14 MS. CAPEHEART: These were the late ones that we 15 hadn't heard yet, right? My understanding, after 16 certification -- 17 MR. COATES: Prior to certification, they got it. 18 This is the supplement after -- the supplement to the tax 19 bill. So -- 20 MS. CAPEHEART: We -- the last round of A.R.B.'s 21 were held in October. 22 MR. COATES: Certified. 23 MS. CAPEHEART: And that's where all these were on, 24 was October. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing this man got was 1-26-09 120 1 his -- that early statement says what your statement for the 2 year is going to be, okay? And his are well over 30,000 that 3 he pays, and he never got anything else after that, 'cause he 4 did file an appeal. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has he gotten -- has he 6 gotten -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, he came down and paid it 8 off his estimated statement. He's never gotten anything. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we all have your home 10 telephone number? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to get that and put that on 13 the record, don't we, Commissioner? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He was -- he was afraid a lot 16 of that may have been my salary. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We could have handled it that way. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I told him he needed to go 19 pay it real quick. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that one possibility 21 we may be looking at in addition to the training that's 22 upcoming -- incidentally, when is that going to be? 23 MR. TROLINGER: It has not been scheduled, but I 24 will watch for that closely. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would be to take a look at 1-26-09 121 1 the tax module maybe being switched over, and how we can do 2 that, if it's -- 3 MS. BOLIN: I wouldn't have a problem. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- economically feasible. 5 MS. BOLIN: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MS. BOLIN: I have not checked into it, but I can 8 get the information. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to get that 10 information as -- as a viable option. 11 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about $100,000, 13 ballpark? 14 MR. TROLINGER: It was $127,000 in 2005. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2005? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cheaper now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should be cheaper now. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Where else are we on these 20 two agenda items? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the -- what about 22 17? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It's out there in the open. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do we need to do to 25 authorize the County Attorney and -- 1-26-09 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Auditor. And/or Auditor, the way 2 it's styled. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure the Auditor is 4 the right -- just my opinion, I'm not sure the Auditor is the 5 right person to have in there, but that is the way it's 6 styled. 7 MS. BOLIN: Commissioner Baldwin, I think the 8 reason that the Auditor's in there is because she wanted to 9 do three years audit to see if we lost any other revenue from 10 Tyler, in light of the situation we have this year. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes sense. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would hope she would 13 do that anyway, whether she's on this little group or not. 14 But, I mean, I -- Rex, do you have any thoughts? I mean, 15 what do you want to do here? 16 MR. EMERSON: Well, I think maybe the proper thing 17 at this point is just give us the go-ahead to work with Diane 18 and see exactly where we are and how big a hole we're in. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You need a court order of 20 some sort to do that? 21 MR. EMERSON: I don't know that we need a court 22 order. Just an unofficial blessing would work. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: God bless you, Rex. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, God bless. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You asked for it. 1-26-09 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Go forth. Go forth. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And don't back up. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to our 11:30 timed 4 item. It's a bit past that. Number 20; consider, discuss, 5 and take appropriate action on proposed agreement between 6 Kerr County Historical Commission and Schreiner University. 7 Mr. Luther? 8 MR. LUTHER: Yes, good morning, Judge Tinley, 9 members of the Commission. We're here to finalize this 10 agreement between Kerr County Historical Commission and 11 Schreiner University. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Luther, could you give 13 me just one second to get the thing up here? I want to ask 14 you a question before we get too far in it. 15 MR. LUTHER: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's that backup? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, under 20. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 20. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold on just a second. 20 Let's see, hold on just a second. Well, I would ask -- I was 21 asked a question this morning about -- and I can't seem to 22 find it now -- about some verbiage here. Here it is, the 23 head of the actual agreement. It says, "Agreement for 24 Long-Term Loan." 25 MR. LUTHER: Yes. 1-26-09 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, you and I understand 2 what that means, what "long-term loan" means. 3 MR. LUTHER: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But there are a couple of 5 folks in the community that do not understand that language. 6 MR. LUTHER: Well, what that means is that the 7 materials that are being loaned to the Logan Library at 8 Schreiner University remain in the possession of Kerr County, 9 and they remain the County's property. Well, we are loaning 10 these materials to be digitized and made available to the 11 public through their Latham library system. They have a 12 Texas Hill Country special collection within the Logan 13 Library, and it's a selection of books, photographs, 14 documents, papers, that sort of thing. We are loaning them 15 our collection from the Kerr County Historical Commission, 16 not only to be digitized and made available worldwide, but 17 also to be preserved in a professional manner, restored and 18 preserved in a professional manner. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The ownership will not 20 transfer? 21 MR. LUTHER: Ownership does not transfer. That's 22 why it's called a long-term loan. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Baldwin is 24 kind. I'm one of those resident dummies that asked the 25 question, and I'm wondering if the title of your proposed 1-26-09 125 1 agreement shouldn't say "Agreement for Long-Term Loan of Kerr 2 County Historical Properties." That way there is no 3 confusion as to whether that is a loan of our historical 4 properties, or whether it is a loan of taxpayer dollars. 5 MR. LUTHER: Oh. Well, it says right in the -- 6 under Purpose, the first -- well, it's the only sentence 7 there. It says, "...provided by Schreiner University for the 8 Kerr County Historical Commission's archives and artifacts." 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm only dealing with the 10 title. 11 MR. LUTHER: Well, we could add "archives and 12 artifacts" -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. 14 MR. LUTHER: -- to the title. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. See how easy 16 that was? 17 MR. LUTHER: Okay. Let me just say that this -- 18 this is a very interesting confluence of what we might call 19 digital waves; that we've finally reached the point where 20 Logan Library at Schreiner University has reached the digital 21 -- digitization stage in their library collection, and we at 22 the County Historical Commission are arriving at the same 23 point at the same time. I am told by those who know that 24 this is probably the first one of these in the country. And 25 we are not behind the wave this time; we are the wave in 1-26-09 126 1 terms of doing this type of technology. I know that the 2 people in Austin at the Texas Historical Commission want to 3 do a report on this to make it a model for other counties to 4 follow throughout Texas. If the purpose of both of our 5 organizations is to make information available to the public, 6 there's no better way than this. Rather than having to come 7 to the courthouse, go with one of our staff down to the -- to 8 the collection and dig through cardboard boxes full of 9 things, now they can just go online and do that. And this 10 fits in very well with our web site which John has so 11 professionally handled in getting up and running. So, I 12 think it's a win-win for everybody. We get our collection 13 protected and maintained and enhanced. The Logan Library's 14 Hill Country collection -- special collection gets a great 15 amount of new material. And I -- I would also like to say 16 that this is not a static sort of program. It's a dynamic -- 17 we are constantly, constantly collecting new material. And 18 as one article comes out or one new wrinkle in this comes 19 out, more people are coming on board to donate stuff or get 20 historical markers and that sort of thing. So, I see it as a 21 win-win. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. I see it as 23 fantastic. I mean, it's incredible. Incredible. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Doctor, with the -- with the 25 knowledge that all of this information is going to be 1-26-09 127 1 digitized and cataloged and available for wide dissemination, 2 has that -- has that had a positive effect on potential 3 contributors to -- to historical artifacts? 4 MR. LUTHER: Oh, yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Bringing them to your care, custody, 6 and control? 7 MR. LUTHER: You know, last week in the Times, 8 through -- Kathie Walker's here from Schreiner University. 9 Through her offices, I did this article on -- on the western 10 cattle trail, and since that article came out, I've had five 11 e-mails. I've got a number of field trips to make this week 12 out to people's ranches who want us to look at stuff and 13 photograph stuff so that there's a permanent record of it. 14 Oftentimes we will go out and -- and without asking to put up 15 a marker or anything like that, we will simply record 16 something, to photograph it, get a plat map of it or 17 something like that so that if it's gone later, we'll know 18 about it. And I think the prime example is this old 19 Kerrville Sanatorium that's up behind Cecil Atkission's 20 place. It was built in 1929. It's still standing. It was a 21 cutting-edge technology in terms of architecture at that 22 time, with hollow clay tile ventilation and flagstone rock 23 and that sort of thing, a number of cottages and a main 24 building. It's still there. I wouldn't have known about it 25 if I hadn't taken my truck out there to get the taillight 1-26-09 128 1 replaced. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who owned it? 3 MR. LUTHER: Well, right now it's owned by Cecil 4 Atkission. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean who owned it? Who 6 built it? 7 MR. LUTHER: When I was going back through the 8 newspaper, I found a reference to this place opening in 1929 9 by a guy named T.L. Cullum, C-u-l-l-u-m, but we've been 10 unsuccessful in tracking that property and ownership down by 11 that name, so we're going to have to work back through deed 12 registration and find it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a positive 14 move in the right direction, and I support it. 15 MR. LUTHER: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another one on the 17 south side of town too that goes back to that era, and that's 18 Scofield School for Girls. 19 MR. LUTHER: Yes, but that's been converted to a 20 private residence. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 22 MR. LUTHER: But it's still there, and we need to 23 record it. Yes, sir, we have an unending list. We've got a 24 number of things already coming up this year. It's just a 25 matter of time, money, and finding sponsors. And this year 1-26-09 129 1 we're very fortunate that both Bill Rector and -- and Tom 2 Daniel at the bank are going to sponsor markers for the Old 3 Spanish Trail and for the Western Trail. And this is all 4 part of a larger county heritage tourism effort, because the 5 more of this we have, the more people will come here. And 6 we're -- (Cell phone rang.) It's the president, I'm sure. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the fine up to $100 now? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was $150. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A hundred -- oh, there's 11 lunch money right there. 12 MR. LUTHER: That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Buys more than tortilla 14 soup, doesn't it? 15 MR. LUTHER: And let me just say that -- well, 16 heck, I can't remember what I was going to say. Kathie 17 Walker is here from Schreiner, and Connor, who's one of the 18 librarians there, to answer any questions that you might 19 have. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions, comments from members 21 of the Court? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 23 MR. LUTHER: Otherwise -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have a motion yet, do we? 25 THE CLERK: No, sir. 1-26-09 130 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a question, Judge, 2 to the County Attorney. You have signed off on this document 3 and it's ready to go? 4 MR. EMERSON: Except for changing the title, it's 5 ready to go. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. I move that we 7 approve the agreement between Kerr County Historical 8 Commission and Schreiner University. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Is that 11 with the changed title? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's with the changed 13 title. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 15 Further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 16 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you. 21 MR. LUTHER: Thank you, Judge. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got her done. Thank you, 23 sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. Let's go to Item 25 19; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to discuss 1-26-09 131 1 various county revenue sources and placement of funds. 2 Commissioner Oehler? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. I put this on the 4 agenda. Just, I think, need some clarification on -- on some 5 of our revenues and how those revenues are being used during 6 the budget year. The County Attorney, he and I have talked a 7 little bit about this. He has some revenues that -- that 8 come to him that are eventually deposited with the Treasurer, 9 I believe, and they're disbursed in certain ways, and if 10 you'd like to elaborate on that a little bit, I'd appreciate 11 it. 12 MR. EMERSON: Sure. We have a couple sources of 13 revenue for our office. The one that y'all are most familiar 14 with is the hot checks. Last year we generated $37,911 in 15 fees collected, and it's my understanding that that's 16 deposited straight into the general revenue. Now, I don't 17 know that; the Treasurer and the Auditor would have to tell 18 you. The other two fees that we collect are the discovery 19 restitution; it was 3,133 last year, and then the new 20 pretrial diversion income that's collected. Last year we 21 collected $16,000 in fees, and then there's approximately 22 31,000 that the Treasurer distributes out to the Clerk's 23 office and the Probation Department. Now, I'm not sure what 24 the proper procedures are for depositing those, but that's 25 why I go through the Treasurer, so that it can be done 1-26-09 132 1 properly and I'm not guessing on how to take care of this. 2 The only other source of income we have is if we settle a 3 civil suit, we might collect attorney's fees for the county, 4 or damages, that type of issue. But it's my understanding 5 that it goes into the general revenue fund, and I'm not sure 6 how it's apportioned out from there. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I recall back when you quit 8 maintaining the hot check fund, for example, in-house, and 9 you turned that directly to -- to the county. Something in 10 the back of my mind tells me that there was a court order at 11 that time that directed that those funds go directly into the 12 general fund. That may be something that -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Ms. Thompson -- and if that's the 15 case, why, if that's where they're going, that's probably why 16 they're going there. If not, you know, there may be some 17 difference. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, those funds, like -- I 19 guess my question maybe is to either -- I guess Mindy first. 20 Let's just take the hot check fund, for instance. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's been turned over to 23 the County. Is that -- that goes into the general fund. Are 24 those funds budgeted towards some expenditure for that year? 25 MS. WILLIAMS: Well, first off, they're not going 1-26-09 133 1 into the general fund. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: When the funds were initially set 4 up, we set up a separate bank account. Those moneys every 5 month are put into a separate bank account. And I believe at 6 that time, the County Auditor -- the agreement was that once 7 a year, we would take surplus out of that money and then turn 8 it over into the general fund. That's how it's been handled 9 the last number of years. If it needs to be put directly 10 into the general fund, then all I need to do is be told that 11 we need to close that bank account out. We'll put the 12 moneys -- when Rex's office brings it in, we'll put it into a 13 line item in the general fund. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the benefit of 16 putting it -- having this little account? What is the 17 benefit? Is it making money or anything? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: It's an interest-earning account, 19 but we know right now that interest is not very good 20 anywhere. No, it -- it's just the way it was set up a number 21 of years ago. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, we haven't been 23 doing this that long, though. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there -- are there not 25 provisions that those funds be used for particular 1-26-09 134 1 expenditures in connection with your office? 2 MR. EMERSON: There are if I expend them, if I 3 expend the money. Now, it's my understanding that when we 4 made this agreement back in '05, that the way the office was 5 previously run was I had the county budget and I had what I'm 6 going to call a ghost budget that was run out of the hot 7 check account. And what we did was consolidate those two 8 budgets into my county budget so that everything's run 9 through one budget line in the county system. And it's my 10 understanding that -- I mean, this may just be a play on 11 words, but basically, all that money coming in can 12 theoretically be credited to the County Attorney's budget so 13 that we're in compliance with the statute. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what you're saying is 16 that the money from that hot check fund needed to be credited 17 back to a budget -- your -- your budget annually? 18 MR. EMERSON: In theory. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In theory. I mean, you can't 20 spend it twice. I mean, -- 21 MR. EMERSON: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we shouldn't. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: I think the understanding was 24 that -- kind of a trade-off. Rex gets the money in his 25 general fund budget. The moneys that he brings in from the 1-26-09 135 1 hot checks would offset what he's getting in his general fund 2 budget. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: But for some reason, it was set up 5 into a separate bank account, a separate fund, and that's 6 where it is right now. If it needs to be handled 7 differently, we can do that. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Isn't that a simple way to figure 9 out how much -- what kind of revenue that's generating, by 10 putting it -- 11 MS. WILLIAMS: A separate fund. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in a separate account? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And there is a -- a sweep 14 account tied to it. We've got the hot check checking 15 account; we have a hot check sweep account. The sweep 16 account was set up with a $25,000 balance. It was paying a 17 higher rate of interest. It still probably is, even though 18 interest rates are probably in the ditch right now. But, 19 yes, and at one certain point in the year, I will notify Rex 20 that, okay, we have "X" number of dollars in both these 21 accounts. We can transfer this amount easily without having 22 to close the sweep account or hamstring anything else. And 23 usually he shoots me back a reply and says go ahead and 24 transfer it, and that's what we would do at that point in 25 time. We leave the money in there during the year so that 1-26-09 136 1 the balance will build and build and build. 2 MR. EMERSON: The only account that has to be 3 isolated for purposes of my office is my trust account, and 4 that has to be maintained separately to protect all the 5 clients' money. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And for what reason would we 7 want to track and keep -- keep a record of the hot check? I 8 mean, -- 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Well -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I'm trying to figure out 11 why you have the little account thing. I don't get that. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Depends on, I guess, how much 13 originally was added to Rex's budget, and the moneys that he 14 was collecting kind of offset it. You know, times being as 15 they are, the revenues are not -- well, they may be more now. 16 You may be having more business with the -- with the way 17 times are going. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I bet you do, don't you? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: I think that that was basically the 20 idea, just to see how much money he was actually bringing in, 21 and then the following year's budget, okay, you brought in 22 $80,000 -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, maybe that's the 24 reason to keep it in the thing. I don't know. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: It might be. 1-26-09 137 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just hard -- it seems 2 to me like by doing that, how do you budget every year? How 3 do you budget for what your projected revenue is going to be 4 on the hot check fund? 5 MR. EMERSON: You can probably budget within 2 or 6 3 percent, 'cause it's pretty consistent. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pretty consistent? 8 MR. EMERSON: It dropped -- if you just 9 historically go back and look at it, it dropped between 4 and 10 5 percent a year for seven or eight years when debit cards 11 were becoming popular, and the independent check-cashing 12 machines were -- were consolidating into the businesses. But 13 now that that's stabilized for the last few years, it's been 14 pretty consistent. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Williams? 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: If this -- if these funds were to be 18 deposited directly into the -- not into a separate account, 19 couldn't it be coded in such a manner that at any particular 20 point in time, if you wanted to ascertain how much those 21 funds were up to that date, that it could be ascertained by 22 coding them in a particular manner? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: I think we could probably -- yes, we 24 could take that fund -- right now it's sitting as an 25 independent fund. It's not consolidated in our pooled cash 1-26-09 138 1 accounts, which are like the general fund, Road and Bridge, 2 huge. We could have Incode set that fund into the pooled 3 cash. It would continue to keep its cash account, its 4 revenue line items, everything. You could still isolate it. 5 It would be -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: For informational purposes. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And then as long as we appropriate 9 in the County Attorney's budget an amount at least equal to 10 what that generated, we can say that's where that came from. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah -- yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That seems like a solution. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We beat that dead horse long 14 enough. Want to move on? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. How many of these do 16 you got, Bruce? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I got quite a bit here. This 18 may take a while, Judge, to get to the bottom of where I'm 19 trying to go. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Eva has told me, and I 22 believe it's correct, that last year, that there was a sum of 23 money that was reimbursed to the county for overpayment, 24 basically, of claims. And, Eva, how much was that last year, 25 in '07-'08? 1-26-09 139 1 MS. HYDE: We had about $186,954.53 that we can 2 track. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what you can track, 4 exactly. That was '06 -- I mean '07-'08? 5 MS. HYDE: '07-'08. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 186,000 plus. 7 MS. HYDE: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happened to that money? 9 MS. HYDE: I gave it to the Treasurer. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You gave it to the Treasurer? 11 MS. HYDE: I gave those checks to the Treasurer. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What did you do with it? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. That money went into the 14 health insurance clearing account, and that account was set 15 up -- I've got some spreadsheets here; I'll let y'all hand 16 them out. All of them -- I think, yeah, I'd better have one. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She gave you two. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Or maybe have I one. Okay. Back in 19 February of last year, the County Auditor, Eva, and I decided 20 we were going to set up a separate bank account at our 21 depository bank, and this account would have the moneys put 22 in it from the payroll, where the County's portion for the 23 employees' insurance, dependent coverage, moneys that the 24 dependents -- employees pay for their dependent coverage. We 25 wanted this account set up so that FARA could draft it once 1-26-09 140 1 they had been given the approval on the claims, and the 2 fixed -- monthly fixed expense. When we were with Mutual of 3 Omaha, Mutual of Omaha was drafting directly out of our 4 Treasurer's account. We didn't know about it until we saw it 5 hitting there. We were trying to make the effort not to have 6 that happen with FARA. The way it's handled now, they send 7 Eva the e-mail with the claims. She approves it. She shoots 8 an e-mail to Jeannie and I, "We need approval for FARA to 9 draft 'X' number of dollars." I check the account, make sure 10 we've got money in it. We give them the okay. They draft, 11 and we're fine. We set this up initially in February. We 12 had to open it with $100,000 so that we could have the moneys 13 there, because we did have some claims that were -- were 14 pending. The money that goes in there is the money that the 15 County pays for the employees, employees' dependent coverage, 16 retiree payments, any stop loss reimbursements that we will 17 get from FARA, because H.R. -- Eva is checking that to make 18 sure that -- that they're not overcharging us. Am I right on 19 that one? 20 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. Any payments by an employee 22 who is out on leave, and they have dependent coverage, they 23 have to pay their premiums; the County's not going to carry 24 it for them. So, what I did is I went back to the date that 25 we started this account, and I've run current up to -- I 1-26-09 141 1 think it was the 19th. The cumulative totals across the 2 bottom, the first two columns are our total claims and scrips 3 from February 2008 until now. That also includes the monthly 4 fixed expense which you pay to FARA. The third, fourth, and 5 fifth columns show the County-paid premiums for the employees 6 from February of 2008 till the most recent payroll, dependent 7 coverage, and retirees' payments. And then we have payments 8 from the employees on leave, the stop loss reimbursements, 9 the -- my total is a little bit higher than Eva's because we 10 had one check that we received from Mutual of Omaha back in 11 March of 2008. We put that into the account -- to the 12 separate bank account. We also get payments from -- for 13 COBRA coverage from former employees that are on COBRA. We 14 get that. Bottom line is, if we hadn't had Eva's diligence 15 in trying -- in getting us the stop loss payments, that's 16 $188,000. Even with that, we would basically be roughly 17 $260,000 in the hole, but we'd have had to transfer that 18 money out of the Treasurer's account in order to cover those 19 claims. The claims are weekly. Our payroll is about every 20 two and a half weeks. And, roughly, it's 80-something 21 thousand dollars, but all it takes is a couple of big weekly 22 claims to zap that. And I apologize it being on legal paper, 23 but my eyes are bad, so I made it big. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mine are too. That's great. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: In essence, what you're doing, 1-26-09 142 1 Ms. Hyde, is on claims that we've paid that, in essence, run 2 over our stop loss limit -- 3 MS. HYDE: We're beating the bushes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We've overpaid, so we're getting 5 that money back from the stop loss carrier for the portion 6 that it ran over in reimbursements from them; is that 7 correct? 8 MS. HYDE: (Nodded.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that the bottom line where we're 10 going here? 11 MS. HYDE: Sort of, kind of, yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MS. HYDE: Because also what we watch is we watch 14 FARA and what FARA's paying out via Texas True Choice to make 15 sure that we're not being overcharged by the entities that 16 are charging FARA. So, for example, since the Sheriff is 17 sitting here and he knows about them, I'm not going to name 18 any names, but we now have three that we've worked on that 19 employees have been overcharged, and they have paid, and we 20 have busted our tails to get that money back, not only for 21 the employees but for the county. So, when we talk about 22 diligence, you know, $800, $900 to some employees is a huge 23 chunk. And when we pay it from Texas True Choice and the 24 employee pays it as well, to me that's a double hit, and so a 25 lot of times we can get both back because of the error. How 1-26-09 143 1 did I say that? Did I say that okay without getting in 2 trouble? Lawyers? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, basically, there is no -- 4 what you would -- what you might call a reserve. 5 MS. HYDE: No, I don't have any sort of reserve. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What you get back flows into 7 paying claims, rather than -- it was not budgeted money. 8 MS. HYDE: I don't reckon it was budgeted, because 9 how would you know? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How would you know? How 11 would you budget? How would you pay these claims if you 12 weren't getting this money back, is my question. 13 MS. HYDE: I just get the checks in, I hand them to 14 Mindy. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How can you pay claims if you 16 didn't get the money back? 17 MS. WILLIAMS: We would have to transfer the money 18 out of the Treasurer's account, which we might -- we hit a GL 19 code, transfer it -- physically transfer it from one bank 20 account to the other in order to be able to pay the claims. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. So, in essence, we 22 budget a certain amount of money for claims every year. We 23 -- up to our stop loss level. Is that correct? 24 MS. HARGIS: No, we actually budget -- the way that 25 I understand it, Eva can address this better than I, the 1-26-09 144 1 insurance agent gives us a floor and a ceiling, and then he 2 decides, based on the actuarials, what the premium will be 3 based on that floor or that ceiling. And then we budget for 4 the middle, more or less. He doesn't have us budget the 5 ceiling; he doesn't have us budget the floor. We kind of 6 budget the ceiling. The -- the way that the payroll system 7 is set up is that the amount of funds that go into this have 8 to come from active employees, so if a position is open, then 9 that amount of money doesn't come forward. It is encumbered 10 and it is in the line item that has been budgeted, but it 11 doesn't move because of the payroll system and the way it's 12 designed. So, as long as we don't go over the total amount 13 that we encumber at the end of the year, which is what you 14 encumber, yes, she's moving money. 15 The problem is, we need to move probably some 16 expense money from certain departments to get it over there, 17 but it's set up to expense only through payroll right now, 18 and that's the way that it's done. So, it -- because this 19 particular account doesn't have any funds does not mean it's 20 not budgeted; it just means that we didn't have enough people 21 who paid in, and therefore their $620 a month did not go into 22 this fund. So, the main thing we need to look at, I think, 23 would be our overall number from October 1 of this year to 24 September 30th, and that we should watch with our budget, and 25 do a budget amendment if that was required. But, as Mr. -- 1-26-09 145 1 as Commissioner Oehler said, we don't have a reserve. And I 2 would suggest to the Court if -- if you wanted an extra 3 amount of reserve to be put in here, I would suggest that we 4 do that at budget. We can do it any time that you want to do 5 it, but I would suggest that if you were not comfortable, 6 that whatever premium we used -- either we go to the ceiling 7 and budget the ceiling that the -- that the insurance agent 8 gives us, or we decide that we want to budget a reserve. We 9 can do that by either increasing the amount of the -- of the 10 contribution that we want to put in these line items, or we 11 can actually set aside. 12 I would caution you, and -- and the external 13 auditors will do the same, and I've heard this over my 14 career, that -- not to reserve money necessarily for a 15 specific purpose, because what happens is, if you need it, 16 you can't, because you've got it in the court documents. So 17 you don't want to do that, but there are other ways of doing 18 it, and I don't think it would be a bad idea, perhaps, to 19 think about that. I think that Ms. Hyde and I discussed 20 that. We tried a system that we thought might work, and it 21 just -- it was too complicated. It's -- we can also set 22 aside moneys that are just flat in the nondepartmental, and 23 that are set there for overages, and budget those as well. 24 So, there are ways of doing that, and we'll let the Court 25 decide how they want to tell us to do that. 1-26-09 146 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That gets me down to 2 another question. Mrs. -- Ms. Hyde, you -- you gave 3 Ms. Hargis a position schedule; is that correct? Of all 4 positions to be funded? 5 MS. HYDE: We gave her the position schedule, yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For everything that was 7 approved by the Court, all the employees and a full and 8 complete position schedule that needed to be funded by the 9 budget? 10 MS. HYDE: We gave her the position schedule, yes, 11 sir, including the district staff and -- the same position 12 schedule that we've had. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- how many is that? 14 How many people is that? 15 MS. HYDE: Today? Or then? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, what you gave her. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: About 300. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 300? 285? 228? 19 MS. HYDE: Give me just a second. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 MS. HYDE: It -- it was 263, 264. And then you've 22 got 11 retirees. 23 MS. HARGIS: Twelve. 24 MS. HYDE: It was 11, 'cause one died. That was 25 it. Because your opt-outs -- your opt-outs are included in 1-26-09 147 1 the position schedule. So, it's 263 -- 264 was active 2 positions, and then you've got 11 retirees. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you count retirees in -- 4 MS. HYDE: We counted them as a number -- as your 5 total number when you're talking insurance. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask kind of a 7 corollary question to Commissioner Oehler's. He asked about 8 the position schedule that you gave. 9 MS. HYDE: It would have had 263 people on it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Does that include 11 positions that are budgeted or that are anticipated to be 12 hired during the course of the year? 13 MS. HYDE: It showed full and empty positions, if 14 that's what you're asking. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess that's what I'm 16 asking. So, if Road and Bridge anticipates hiring three 17 people during the course of the year, is that included? 18 Should be. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whatever we've approved -- 20 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for anybody to hire, 22 whether an increase or a decrease. Whatever was the total 23 number that was approved at budget time, the way I understand 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or the Sheriff, who 1-26-09 148 1 typically is under-hired on jailers sometimes. He 2 anticipates hiring jailers -- always anticipates hiring 3 jailers. 4 MS. HYDE: Well, I mean, we didn't add any, though, 5 to the Sheriff. I'll take up for you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just asking generically 7 here. 8 MS. HYDE: It included all positions, both filled 9 and non-filled. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's my question. 11 Thank you. 12 MS. HYDE: What was approved by the Court. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All authorized positions. 14 MS. HYDE: Thank you. Thank you. There we go, 15 yes, sir. All authorized positions. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this number's 263? Or 17 is it 274? 18 MS. HYDE: No, it's 263 or 264; I can't grab it out 19 of here. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you don't add the 11 21 retirees in? 22 MS. HYDE: We add it for insurance purposes, but 23 not for budget. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, very good. Very good. 25 That's what I was asking. Good. 1-26-09 149 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, next question. 2 MS. HYDE: Dang. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're all -- was everybody 4 that was approved in that position schedule, did they all 5 have -- was there enough budgeted money to fund their health 6 insurance and their liability insurance? 7 MS. HYDE: You're going to have to answer that one. 8 MS. HARGIS: Liability insurance? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was there enough money 10 budgeted to cover all the approved positions on the schedule 11 for the entire year? 12 MS. HARGIS: Based on -- I budgeted for -- I didn't 13 budget for 263; I took the opt-outs out. And the reason that 14 I had done that is because we were 400,000 over for the prior 15 year, and I was trying to be very conservative with the 16 budget because we were going to have to go up on the tax 17 rate. I did not budget for the opt-outs, so there are 11 of 18 those. They did -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, that $400,000 that we ran 20 over actually was basically a reserve fund. It was -- it was 21 in excess of what was expended. You basically took it on 22 yourself to budget that into this year's payment of liability 23 insurance and health insurance? 24 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. No, sir, I did not budget -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happened to it? 1-26-09 150 1 MS. HARGIS: I did not -- I just didn't budget for 2 11 people. I did not -- when the funds close, when the 3 expense -- when the expenses close, the expenses close 4 into -- into the revenue, and that's the end of your year. I 5 didn't move any of that money. If it's not used, it rolls 6 up. That's the way that the ledger is set up. I didn't 7 touch any of that money. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How do you intend on funding 9 the health insurance and liability insurance whenever you 10 have underbudgeted the position schedule? 11 MS. HARGIS: I budgeted a million, seven -- I don't 12 have the exact figure; I think it's a million, seven-three. 13 The -- the floor was a million, six, and he gave the premium 14 based on that. I was not privy to the discussions with the 15 insurance agent or with Eva, and at -- during this -- this 16 last budget time, I didn't budget the retirees, because I was 17 told not to do that. I didn't budget the opt-outs because I 18 didn't think that we should budget something we can't expense 19 and -- and move forward. It just didn't make sense to me. I 20 have been -- I've since been told that probably was not a 21 correct thing to do. But I have -- you know, I was trying to 22 be as conservative as possible and not leave as much on the 23 table so that we wouldn't have to go up on the tax rate any 24 more than we had to. And -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But that also is going to -- 1-26-09 151 1 if -- here's a scenario. If all the money that's needed to 2 be expended for those health -- the health insurance and 3 liability insurance -- some of those liability policies were 4 left off of long-term employees, my understanding. 5 MS. HARGIS: I don't know anything about the 6 liability insurance. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't? 8 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, I do not. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ms. Hyde, we'll have to get 10 with you again in a minute. 11 MS. HARGIS: All I did was budget for end -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we need to expend all 13 those funds for a full position schedule that was authorized 14 by this Court to fund in that budget, it will become a 15 deficit budget. 16 MS. HARGIS: The 11 -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In the fourth quarter. 18 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, I don't think it will. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How do you know that? 20 MS. HARGIS: I don't know that for sure, but I do 21 know that last year, we budgeted for a million, eight, and we 22 spent a million, four. Gary Looney stood here and gave you 23 those figures in court. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You better hope it works that 25 way this year, because if it doesn't, what's going to happen 1-26-09 152 1 is it's going to affect next year's tax rate. $400,000 is a 2 penny and a half, to my best knowledge, of tax rate. 3 MS. HARGIS: The total amount that Mr. Looney 4 budgeted was two million, one, so a million, seven -- I'm not 5 400,000 off of what the insurance agent gave us as the 6 ceiling. Even if I'd have budgeted two million, one, there 7 is a possibility that the claims that we pay, if we have a 8 bad year, will go over the two million, one. So if I had 9 budgeted two million, one, I would still be in the same 10 position, Commissioner Oehler. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, we've had 12 situations in the past where our claims exceeded the budgeted 13 amount, I believe, in years past, in which case we always 14 have to go to reserves to cover -- to cover the cost. What 15 you're saying, if I understand correctly, is that if you -- 16 taking last year, for example, you budgeted -- the budgeted 17 amount was 400,000 more than the actual expenditure. 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So we didn't -- we 20 didn't expend that money. 21 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That then rolled back into 23 reserves; is that correct? 24 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 1-26-09 153 1 MS. HARGIS: So it is -- it's available in 2 reserves. It's not -- it wasn't used for any other purpose. 3 It was rolled into the reserves. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was the reserves? The 5 general fund reserve at the end -- as of September the 30th, 6 2008? 7 MS. HARGIS: I think I gave you that in the budget 8 book. I don't have the audited figures right now; I don't 9 have that in front of me. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, my understanding that 11 it was somewhere, by your calculations -- I'm not real sure 12 what all you included in the reserves, whether you included 13 other funds that may or may not be funds we can expend out of 14 it to get it at a moment's notice for any unknown that might 15 pop up. I don't have any idea what was in there. My 16 understanding was at the time, it was somewhere around 17 to 17 19 percent. I hear recently that you're saying we have 18 25 percent reserves. 19 MS. HARGIS: I think that if I'm correct, I had 20 percentages on the side of the budget book, and I think I 21 estimated the percentage to be about 23 percent. Until the 22 auditors get finished with any of those situations, I based 23 that calculation on receivables that would be coming to us, 24 that are in the -- the courts at the time that we close out 25 the books, and the cash balances that are in the bank at the 1-26-09 154 1 time. The receivables are 30-day receivables that we're due 2 from court fines and fees. We probably -- they're already in 3 there; we don't have the report at year-end, so you have to 4 kind of estimate what those are going to be. And I went back 5 on prior years. I used the same calculation that your 6 auditor had used for the last 17 years. That's what I went 7 by. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess the ultimate question 9 I have to ask is, if we have 25 percent real money in our 10 reserves, that's what starts us out for the first quarter of 11 the year until we start getting tax money in. Why did you 12 have to go -- or why did Mindy have to go to our -- to our 13 Tax Assessor/Collector and take money from her account in 14 order to pay December bills? 15 MS. HARGIS: Because she didn't want to draw down 16 from TexPool, is the reason she told me. It wasn't -- 17 MS. WILLIAMS: I wasn't able to transfer the money 18 out of TexPool. I was one day too late, with the holidays. 19 It would not have hit until January the 2nd, and I did not 20 want all the payroll and whatnot to pull our pooled cash 21 balance into a negative at the end of December, so I asked 22 Diane if she could give us an advance. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, how much money was left 24 in our -- in the TexPool account? Was there enough to pay 25 December's bills? 1-26-09 155 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We had over 2 three million -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: -- in there. I just -- it was my 5 mistake; I waited one day too long. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I wanted to have, 7 is to find out why -- 8 MS. WILLIAMS: Because I waited one day too long. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we're getting funds 10 whenever we're supposed to have a 25 percent reserve. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. But the money -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe that we do. 13 I want that to be proven to me, that what funds are included 14 in that, and not just maybe from other accounts that 15 shouldn't qualify for that. I would like to know that we 16 really have 25 percent. 17 MS. HARGIS: I don't think that I put 25 percent. 18 I said around 25 percent to Eva. I think I have that on the 19 budget book on the side that the Judge asked me to account 20 like that. It's based on the bottom line at the time, and 21 it's an estimate. Keep in mind, we do that estimate in 22 August. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm looking forward to it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd be surprised if we had 25 25. I would be surprised. 1-26-09 156 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be a real surprise to me if 2 we have anywhere near 25, realistically. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd be happily surprised if we were 4 at 25. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the reason for me doing 6 this exercise is more so than just the heck of it. We are 7 going to be moving into some pretty critical times within the 8 next year. We need to encourage everybody in this county to 9 conserve their budgets as much as possible, hang onto that 10 money, because whenever values stabilize, which they are 11 probably going to do, our sales tax revenue is mostly likely 12 going to go down. We are going to be in trouble for the 13 2009-2010 budget, and every penny that we can hang onto, we'd 14 better hang onto it, or we won't be able to pay our bills. 15 And I don't want this county to be bankrupt because of some 16 finagling of funds around. I want to really know what we 17 have. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is "finagling" really a 19 word? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It might not be, but it's 21 mine. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I like it. I use it. I 23 use it too. I didn't know if you were using right angles or 24 not. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it for that particular 1-26-09 157 1 agenda item, Commissioner? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That got me just exactly what 3 I thought was going to happen. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The only remaining item on 5 the agenda is Item 21; consider, discuss, and take 6 appropriate action regarding demotion due to decrease in job 7 duties. Is that something that necessarily will go into -- 8 needs to go to executive session, Ms. Pieper? 9 MS. PIEPER: I don't think -- I think we can do it 10 without going into executive session. What do you think, 11 Eva? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Pieper, has the affected 13 employee or employees had the opportunity to appear here 14 today? To be present? 15 MS. HYDE: They're here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. There's only one? There's 17 one? 18 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before we advance to 21 that, just one caveat to add to the Groves contract, which 22 would be authorizing you to sign it. I didn't make that as 23 part of my motion, but it needs to be on the record to 24 authorize you to sign the contract. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume nobody on the Court has any 1-26-09 158 1 problem with that, do you? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I expected it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Pieper? 6 MS. PIEPER: Well, gentlemen, -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's that word again. 8 MS. PIEPER: -- I have -- due to a decrease in job 9 duties, I have demoted one of the employees in the office. 10 About a year ago, I came to you and I requested a 2 and a 11 half percent increase because of additional job duties. The 12 performance is not up to par, so I have demoted that person 13 just back to a regular deputy with the salary that the person 14 was making at that point, and so I would like to be able to 15 bank that 2.5 percent that was for this added additional 16 duties, and once I get a new person trained, then give the 17 2.5 percent to my other deputy that is going to be in 18 training. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it? 20 MS. PIEPER: That's my speech. Do you have 21 anything? 22 MS. HYDE: Not unless they ask. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I ask you, what -- what 24 action does the Court take? 25 MS. PIEPER: At this point, I don't think the Court 1-26-09 159 1 needs to take any action. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 3 MS. PIEPER: Just keep it in the back of your mind 4 that in a couple of months -- not anytime real soon. In a 5 couple of months -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'll have a new trained 7 employee? 8 MS. PIEPER: -- I will have a new trained employee, 9 and I would like to come back and at that point ask for that 10 2 and a half percent for the additional duties for the 11 employee that we are training. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it from your standpoint? 13 MS. PIEPER: That's it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Keller, do you have anything you 15 wish to respond? 16 MS. KELLER: Yes, sir, I do have a comment 17 regarding that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Feel free to come forward. 19 MS. KELLER: Do I need to give this to someone? 20 Okay. My name is Ana Keller, and I'm here today to speak on 21 my own behalf. This concerns the meeting that I had last 22 week about the merit increase I did earn, as she mentioned, a 23 year ago, October the 7th, 2007, which is in question today. 24 And in this meeting, I was told that my responsibilities as 25 the backup bookkeeper were going to be taken away due to 1-26-09 160 1 mistakes that I had made. I feel that this is an unjust act. 2 I am the backup bookkeeper. Everyone makes mistakes. And 3 it's kind of funny, you know, sitting here for the past hour 4 and a half, how it's been all about mistakes concerning the 5 deposit -- you know, everyone makes mistakes concerning the 6 deposits, what I'm hearing, including the full-time 7 bookkeeper. I know this because I've had to correct those 8 mistakes also. The mistakes I made were mistakes that could 9 be corrected and have been corrected. There is not one 10 person in this room, or that I know of, who does not make 11 mistakes. Judge Tinley, Commissioners, this is going to be 12 my seventh year with the county, and in those seven years, 13 I've been granted two merit increases, one from Paula Rector 14 when I was in the Tax Assessor's office, and the one that 15 Jannett -- the clerk gave to me. I have also given my time 16 on numerous occasions to work elections, and most recently I 17 was the only Kerr County employee, other than the Sheriff, 18 who stood up in front of everyone and proclaimed that we 19 deserved our raises. Commissioner Baldwin, you called me 20 your hero for that. And, Judge Tinley, the words to me were 21 that the employees of Kerr County should be proud of what 22 I've done for them. So, today I ask why -- why is this 23 happening to me? Why couldn't someone try and help me just a 24 little more to learn, you know, this deposit the way that is 25 necessary? I also was just -- I was also told that this was 1-26-09 161 1 business, not personal, and I really hope that this is true, 2 because right now it feels real personal. Gentlemen, in 3 closing, I would like each of you to know that I have been 4 worthy of the merits given to me. I am a hardworking 5 employee. I do take my responsibilities seriously, and I am 6 a trustworthy employee of Kerr County, and would like for you 7 to consider that. Respectfully, Ana Keller. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Keller. Anything 9 further with regard to this particular item, Ms. Pieper? 10 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Because this is a matter that is 12 within the confines of your office and your authority dealing 13 with your employees? 14 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. And I have -- I have 15 sent a personnel action form down to the H.R. Director with 16 this. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was that again? 18 MS. PIEPER: I sent a personnel action form that is 19 required through our personnel -- county personnel policy if 20 there's any kind of effect on employees. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MS. PIEPER: So, that went down Thursday. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, no action -- no action 24 by this Court is required at all? 25 MS. PIEPER: No, sir. 1-26-09 162 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further from any member of 2 the Court on that item? Let's move on, then, to Section 4, 3 the approval agenda, payment of the bills. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second the emotion. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to pay 7 the bills. Any question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, hold on just a second. 9 Because I am a nice guy, I went into the Auditor's office and 10 they answered, I think, everything for me this morning, I 11 believe. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the reason? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Incorrect, I do have a 14 question. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Incorrect that you're not a nice 16 guy, or that they answered everything? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of the above. I'm 18 taking it all back. Here's the question. Just -- and I'm 19 really speaking as a taxpayer right here. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: As you should. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 3, the very bottom one, 22 198th District Court hires a private investigator, $570. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Check the last entry under 216th. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't find it. Well, 25 anyway -- 1-26-09 163 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Middle of the page. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's one there. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 216th. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Three times as large -- twice as 5 large, excuse me. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they -- okay. Let's see 7 here. We have $1,200 there and $570 on 198th, and we have 8 two Texas Rangers that work for us, and we're still hiring 9 people? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are payments to investigators 11 that were hired by defense lawyers pursuant to authorization 12 from the two courts, respectively. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: In cases where there were indigent 15 defendants. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you think I'm going 17 to say, "Oh my god, I've made a horrible mistake and I'm 18 embarrassed," you're crazy. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is still goofy. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Next month when you see one 22 that has a payment to somebody who is now a former deputy, 23 they created their own private investigation company here. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got another one coming? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yep. You're going to have a 1-26-09 164 1 lot more. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They could fire those Texas 3 Rangers and just use this guy. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I highly recommend it. He's 5 a really sharp dude. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably this guy's doing it 7 for the defense attorneys. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next? Kathy's getting a 10 little weary here; we need to close the thing up. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you guys, I'm really 12 disappointed in that. I wanted to rant and rave a little bit 13 there. You just kind of threw, like, a bucket of cold water 14 on me. I'm really embarrassed. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You weren't going to say that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. I take it back. 17 That was all. They were very nice to me and answered all my 18 questions this morning. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 20 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 21 hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 1-26-09 165 1 amendments. We have a summary containing four budget 2 amendments that have been presented along with the bills. Do 3 I hear a motion that the budget amendments as reflected in 4 the summary be approved as presented? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the budget amendments as reflected in the summary 9 to be approved. Question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Under Item 2, 11 unless I'm misreading this or don't understand it, we're 12 making a -- a budget amendment, and where is that -- where is 13 that 4,200 coming from? 14 MS. HARGIS: That's a HAVA grant. We budgeted the 15 revenue, but we neglected to budget the expense, so this is 16 the expense to go along with the -- with the grant. The 17 grant's 4,200, and this is 4,200. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Another question under Road and 20 Bridge. Was there a piece of equipment that he picked up 21 that he was not anticipating picking up? 22 MS. HARGIS: He neglected to -- when I asked him if 23 he had any more lease payments, he said no, and they did 24 forget one, and so we're going to have to move -- this is 25 their request that we move from their contingencies up, 1-26-09 166 1 because this was an existing lease they had to pay. So 2 they -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. This was an existing lease 4 that he'd somehow -- 5 MS. HARGIS: He neglected to put it in his budget. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- neglected to put it in. A 7 mistake. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the amount that 9 covers the balance of the year, or is this one month? 10 MS. HARGIS: It's the balance. That's all of it. 11 And then, of course, the last one is our Homeland Security 12 grant, budgeting the revenue coming in and the revenue going 13 out -- I mean, expense going out. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is the goofiest thing 15 I've ever seen in my entire life. It appears that you're 16 taking 90,000 from radio equipment and giving it to the 17 federal government. But -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then they're giving it back. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- then they're giving it 20 back. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nobody wants it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-26-09 167 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 4 any late bills, Ms. Auditor? 5 MS. HARGIS: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 7 reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; Justice of the 8 Peace, Precinct 2; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; District 9 Clerk; and Constable, Precinct 3. Do I hear a motion that 10 those reports be approved as presented? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve 14 the indicated reports as presented. Question or discussion 15 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 16 raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any reports 21 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or other 22 assignments? Commissioner Baldwin? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing. 1-26-09 168 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from elected officials 4 or department heads? Oh. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we call out and get some 7 pizza? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Here's something sitting here 9 that's probably for y'all, just due to -- and part of it's 10 based on Commissioner Oehler's comments. And this is a 11 report I want to make, and I don't know if y'all can give me 12 some guidance, but we're going to need it before the end of 13 the year, is the fact a few months ago -- or few 14 commissioners courts ago, there was some -- quite a few 15 comments about my officers' overtime and comp time being 16 built up and holiday and all that. So, we have been 17 diligently trying to give officers off as much as we can 18 possibly give them off to burn off some of that, and I had 19 been paying them their straight time for the holidays when 20 they worked. The problem we're going to see now is, just 21 because of the holiday that was at Christmas and New Year's, 22 that one extra pay, paying the officers that worked on those 23 days, just for the deputies, was over $9,400. My overtime 24 budget at the end of this month will be through for the year. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're going to have to give 1-26-09 169 1 a bunch of time off. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Sheriff? Thank you. 3 Any other elected officials or department heads? Seeing 4 none, we'll be adjourned. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:55 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of January, 16 2009. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 1-26-09