1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, February 9, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 9, 2009 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to open bids from pharmaceutical providers for Kerr County 5 Indigent Health program for the balance of 2009 fiscal year and FY 2010; refer bids to Indigent 6 Health Department for evaluation 10 7 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to provide a "Kerr County - Where the Money Goes" 8 link to Kerr County website 12 9 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on certification of nonavailability of adequate 10 space in county-owned buildings, or adequate funds to lease additional physical facilities, 11 purchase additional equipment, or pay for additional utilities for 198th Judicial District 12 Adult Probation Department 17 13 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a joint resolution by and between the Kerrville 14 City Council and the Kerr County Commissioners Court supporting use of federal stimulus funds 15 for Phase 2 of airport taxiway/drainage project at the airport 19 16 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 17 report to Commissioners Court of status of investments under Section 887(b), Probate Code 22 18 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to ask 19 for permission for Road and Bridge to build new road and 20-count parking lot for Hill Country 20 Community M.H.M.R. Crisis Stabilization Unit 23 21 1.6 Announcing a 9-1-1 signage campaign 36 22 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set a public hearing for revision of plat for Lots 23 2A-1 and 2A-2 in Pecan Valley No. 2 Subdivision 43 24 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize Road and Bridge Administrator to 25 collaborate with City of Kerrville on sealcoating project for city streets 45 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 9, 2009 2 PAGE 3 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set a public hearing for 2009-2010 Texas 4 Community Block Grant Colonia Fund for 5:30 p.m., Tuesday, February 24, 2009, in the Commissioners' 5 Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse 51 6 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve one or more of the following joint 7 resolutions with the City of Kerrville: Airport water line, TexDOT drainage project, 8 USDA facility, & lake dredging project 57 9 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to determine whether or not a policy change is 10 needed in Facilities Use Policy for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center to include all 11 nonprofits listed under the 501(c) section of IRS Code 71 12 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 13 regarding awarding mass notification system RFP's 76 14 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 request from Texas Wild Bunch to be added to the nonprofit list for use of Exhibit Hall at 16 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 87 17 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on annual report, membership appointments, and 18 revised bylaws for Kerr County Historical Commission 91 19 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 20 implementation of the burn ban 102 21 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve use of Center Point Lions Park by 22 Southwest Tandem Rally, Saturday, April 25, 2009 107 23 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to extend contract for investment advisory services 24 with Patterson & Associates for one year 110 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 9, 2009 2 PAGE 3 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint Kenneth Wood and Donald Oehler to 4 ESD #1 Board for an additional 2-year term 112 5 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to appoint Vicki Barron as a member of Kerr County 6 Child Services Board 113 7 4.1 Pay Bills 114 8 4.2 Budget Amendments 115 4.3 Late Bills --- 9 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 116 10 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 116 11 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads --- 12 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 13 future of floodplain administration (Executive Session) --- 14 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 Kerr County FMLA policy 123 16 --- Adjourned 171 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, February 9, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, February 9th, 2009, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please stand and join me in a 13 moment of prayer, and followed by the pledge. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be 17 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is 18 your time to let us know what's on your mind. If you wish to 19 be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that you wait until that 20 item is called, and we'd prefer that you fill out a 21 participation form. Should be some located at the back of 22 the room. That helps me know that there's someone that 23 wishes to be heard on that item. But if you -- if you wish 24 to be heard on an agenda item, when we get to that item and 25 you haven't filled out a participation form, get my attention 2-9-09 6 1 in some manner and I'll see that you have the opportunity to 2 be heard. But right now, if there's anybody that wishes to 3 be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel 4 free to come forward at this time and tell us what's on your 5 mind. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. 6 Commissioner Letz, do you have anything for us this morning? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just -- I was hoping we 8 were going to get a little bit of rain last night. We got a 9 very little bit of rain last night, and conditions continue 10 to be extremely dry. Everyone just needs to be careful. 11 Fire danger's really high. That's it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I'm pretty much the 14 same way. We had enough to settle the dust for probably 30 15 minutes, max, but we did have about 6 feet of wind yesterday. 16 (Laughter.) And had to -- picked up my dog pen, threw it up 17 against the high line and broke the meter. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bet that was exciting. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But hopefully we can get by 20 with more rain and less wind. That will be fine with me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Your dog wasn't in the dog pen, was 22 he? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, the dog wasn't in the dog 24 pen, but she was nearby, and scared her pretty badly. She 25 went under a wagon wheel. But, anyway, no, we don't have a 2-9-09 7 1 whole lot. We did have a little fire, and it wasn't -- it 2 was right on the edge of Kerr -- well, it was actually in 3 Gillespie County last week that I could see from my house, 4 and it was in what we call Harper Valley Estates, very, very 5 back end of it. And I went over to see if they needed any 6 assistance. Harper was there and Tierra Linda Fire 7 Department was there, and just didn't seem like they had 8 quite enough water, so I got ahold of Road and Bridge; they 9 sent a couple of trucks real quick, and they finished putting 10 it out. The Forest Service showed up with two bulldozers 11 real quick, and it was over, thank goodness, but it could 12 have been pretty bad. But -- so Billy Roeder, I feel like, 13 owes Kerr County something. It's always good to have him on 14 that side of it rather than on the other side. That's it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to amen Roeder 17 owing us something, the good Commissioner from Gillespie 18 County. We need to send him a bill. (Laughter.) That's all 19 I have, Judge. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think what I'm about to 22 report on falls under this category, 'cause it's not listed 23 on the agenda, but Commissioner Oehler and I went to a dam 24 safety conference -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, you don't have to 2-9-09 8 1 cuss. (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be d-a-m-n-e-d. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sponsored by 5 Freese-Nichols, and pretty well attended, and a very -- 6 pretty good presentation. The bottom line is that since we 7 are the proud owners of three dams in Kerr County that fall 8 under the T.C.E.Q.'s watchful eye, we have some things to do 9 over the course of the next two years to come into compliance 10 with the new state laws and regs regarding dam safety. 11 Fortunately, we do have a two-year window, but that window 12 meter started clicking on January 1. But what it boils down 13 to is that we have some repairs we're going to have to do 14 over and above what we thought we were going to have to do in 15 terms of filling in voids underneath the cap in the two dams, 16 and secondly -- and that's going to require probably our 17 repairing the lift devices for the plates that cover the -- 18 the big pipes. And I know it's broken in Flat Rock; I don't 19 know even where it is on Center Point, and it's probably 20 nonexistent on -- on Commissioner Oehler's at the bottom. 21 So, that's going to have to be done. But more importantly 22 than that, even, is that we're going to have to start a -- a 23 practice of inspecting our dams annually and keeping accurate 24 records on what we determine and what we're looking for and 25 what we've -- what our findings are. We can't be piecemeal 2-9-09 9 1 about our recordkeeping on the dam safety any more. So, 2 that's kind of the highlights. Took us the morning to figure 3 all of that out, and so we got time to get it done. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The meter started running on that 5 this January or next January? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, this January. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: This January. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any special certification required 10 for whoever does these inspections and maintains these 11 records? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not in terms of 13 maintenance. I don't believe there's any -- any 14 certifications required. Were there, Bruce? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, just a matter of you have 16 to determine what your -- what problems may exist, and -- and 17 then what you're going to do to fix them. And -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- you got to have some kind 20 of a plan, too, if the thing is -- happens to wash away or 21 whatever, and people downstream, how that would affect them. 22 And it's not going to be real easy to comply with; it's going 23 to be fairly expense, unfortunately. Another unfunded 24 mandate. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we need engineering 2-9-09 10 1 help, then, obviously, we're going to have engineering help, 2 and we probably will in terms of fixing some of those gates 3 and stuff like that. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The old method of just figure 5 out what's wrong and fix it yourself is not going to be in 6 compliance, I don't think, any more. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. That's it. We'll talk 8 about it at budget time. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin, if we 10 send Commissioner Roeder a bill, I'm going to recommend that 11 we send you over there to collect it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but it's Bruce's 13 neighbor. He's not my neighbor. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it was your idea to send him a 15 bill. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, he is too your 18 neighbor. Isn't he over in the Tierra Linda area? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't speak English any 20 more. (Laughter.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We're getting nowhere 22 there. Okay, let's get on with our agenda. The first item 23 is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to open 24 bids from pharmaceutical providers for Kerr County Indigent 25 Health program for the balance of 2009 fiscal year and F.Y. 2-9-09 11 1 2010, refer bids to Indigent Health Department for 2 evaluation. Let the young man with the sharp knife here work 3 on them. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May not be sharp. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have one that's sharp. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sharp enough to hurt me, and I'm 7 better off without a knife. The first bid that we have is 8 the Medicine Stop. The next one is from Ackman Pharmacy. 9 Okay, and I don't know who this last one is from. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: H.E.B. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: H.E.B. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got a big enough clip for 13 that? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I do, as a matter of fact. Do I 15 hear a motion that these bids be accepted and referred to 16 Indigent Health for evaluation and recommendation? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 20 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 21 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 2-9-09 12 1 Item 2; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 2 provide a "Kerr County - Where the Money Goes" link to the 3 Kerr County web site which details expenditure of Kerr County 4 funds, excluding payroll and payroll- and benefits-related 5 items. I put this on the agenda. I'd be happy to take 6 credit for the idea, but, unfortunately, a former Republican 7 county chair inquired of me if we might be able to do that 8 after attending Comptroller Comb's presentation here in 9 Kerrville. So, I talked with John Trolinger, our I.T. 10 Manager, about putting on the agenda the bills that we 11 approve each meeting, merely putting that on the web site and 12 letting folks know what they're paying for. He said it would 13 be relatively easy to do. We put a link on the web site, and 14 once they're finally approved, those that are finally 15 approved, they go onto the web site so that folks can see 16 that, with an explanatory note that if a citizen has 17 questions about them, any one of them, they can call the 18 particular department head or elected official that -- under 19 whose jurisdiction that expenditure falls, or the Treasurer 20 or the Auditor, and maybe as a last resort, a member of the 21 Commissioners Court. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you talking -- are you 23 talking about more -- anything other than the bills? Are you 24 talking about just the bills that we pay? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, at this point, just the bills 2-9-09 13 1 that we pay. It's my understanding that there is some -- the 2 Auditor tells me there's some legislation pending in Austin 3 that, if enacted, would require us to have this information 4 available in all sorts of different formats, where they can 5 pull up all the pencils in the county or all the -- all of 6 the telephone bills in the county, or where we'd have to go 7 to considerable length to massage the information in order to 8 make it available in accordance with this proposed 9 legislation. Right now, what I'm talking about is this -- 10 this listing that we get every meeting for bills, those that 11 are approved for payment. Once that occurs, that it goes 12 onto the web site indicating that those bills were approved 13 for payment by the Court. The -- the payroll information 14 will not be included there, because that's included in the 15 position schedule, which is part of the budget and is already 16 part of public record. The insurance things we've got to be 17 a little careful about because of HIPAA and confidentiality. 18 The -- those type of things we've got to be careful about. 19 But these are the regular vendor-type bills, vendor, and I 20 think direct payables also would be included on these. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. I think it's a 22 good -- good open government. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Transparency. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Transparency is the latest 25 buzzword. I wouldn't want the bills like the thing that 2-9-09 14 1 we're fixing to send to the Commissioner in Gillespie County 2 for putting out his fire, I wouldn't want that to be out in 3 the public domain, 'cause that gets kind of heavy. But the 4 bills that we pay, I'm -- I think is a good idea. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It's once they're approved for 6 payment here, those that are approved for payment would be 7 the ones that are then placed on the web site, indicating 8 that they were approved. For example, I don't know when the 9 Court would want to start, March the 1st or whenever, but 10 indicating that those particular bills were approved for 11 payment by Commissioners Court on whatever date they were 12 approved. That's not real complicated, according to the I.T. 13 Manager. 14 MR. TROLINGER: And, Judge Tinley, to clarify, the 15 legislation requires a database, a -- that is a searchable 16 database of all the county's bills be available, provided by 17 counties population 20,000 or greater, so that's an extensive 18 amount of work. But your list, just to provide the summary, 19 the one-line summary of each bill, is -- I think it's good 20 faith in what the Legislature wants to provide that 21 information. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's transparency. And that way, if 23 -- if a citizen does have a question about a particular item 24 because there's not adequate explanation, they can call the 25 elected official or department head and get the information. 2-9-09 15 1 It's pretty simple. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I think the only -- I 3 think it's a great idea. The only thing -- I think we need 4 to put on the front of it or somewhere a list of what 5 department head or elected official is responsible for those 6 bills. Because if you read our bills, some of them are 7 pretty clear. Some of them you'd have no idea, when you get 8 into some of these funds toward the back, you know, as to 9 who's -- like, for example, the -- some of the court records 10 funds. I mean, it doesn't say on our bill list who's 11 responsible for that. We obviously want to put Linda Uecker 12 down for all those. Hi, Linda. How are you doing this 13 morning? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we could work up -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as part of the explanatory 17 addendum a little list by fund. All of the -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Bills by department. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, by fund. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They're shown by department. For 22 example, the County Clerk, that's obviously self-explanatory. 23 My office is self-explanatory. The District Clerk is 24 self-explanatory. But on some of the others, they're not 25 that clear. 2-9-09 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But we could work that up, and that 3 would be simple enough to do, I would think. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that would make it easier. 5 I think the thing we -- my thought would be we'd want the 6 questions to go to the department that knows -- has the 7 answers, rather than have them all go to the Treasurer and 8 the Auditor. And if we don't have it clearly broken out, I 9 think we can go to those two. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ready for a motion? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just got it. Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item. When do you want to try and 16 start this, March 1? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is March 1 doable, John? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: March 1. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Question or discussion on the 21 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 22 right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-9-09 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 2 Item 4, consider, discuss, and -- excuse me, Item 3. I was 3 misreading that at 9:30. It's 9:15. Consider, discuss, and 4 take appropriate action on certification of nonavailability 5 of adequate space in county-owned buildings or adequate funds 6 to lease additional physical facilities, purchase additional 7 equipments, or pay for additional utilities by the department 8 for the 198th Judicial District Adult Probation Department. 9 This was placed on the agenda at the request of the Adult 10 Probation folks, and essentially what we are required to do 11 is, in the event we are not providing facilities and 12 equipment and utilities and so forth in order for the 13 Probation Department to be able to expend their operational 14 funds on these types of things, this Court must certify that 15 we don't have that in the county courthouse, or other space 16 which we have -- own or have leased, and secondly, that we do 17 not have the funds available to -- to either purchase the 18 property or lease the property, or to purchase the equipment 19 needed or the -- or the utilities that are required for the 20 operation of that office. Is that pretty much it in a 21 nutshell? 22 MR. FINN: That's correct. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which we have not been 25 doing that over all these years; is that correct? 2-9-09 18 1 MR. FINN: In the last five years, we had a letter 2 from the County Judge and that was adequate, but now CJAD is 3 requiring us to have it on Commissioners Court meeting notes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then these funds come -- 5 are paid by -- 6 MR. FINN: By us. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Out of -- where does the money 8 come from? 9 MR. FINN: It comes from our basic supervision 10 funds, from probation fees. So -- and in my other four 11 counties, you know, we have -- we're using the courthouse. 12 And this is a little different, 'cause you have the 198th and 13 216th split. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these -- do these funds go 15 through the county? 16 MR. FINN: No, sir. We're -- we're independent 17 from anything with the county. It's -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- the reason I'm thinking 19 of this is 'cause we just did something here about 20 transparency. How does the public see where you're spending 21 your money? 22 MR. FINN: Usually once a year, we'll have, you 23 know, just open -- an open meeting. And, you know, nobody 24 ever shows up to it, but we have it, you know. If anybody 25 wants to see our budget, you know, it's open to anybody. 2-9-09 19 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We certainly have no funds in our 2 budget approved for this purpose, and don't have funds 3 available to do any of these things, so essentially what we 4 need is a certification by the Court that -- the statement on 5 the agenda item of the nonavailability of the space or the 6 funds to provide the space for those other items. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that your phone? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so, no. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those the kind of 14 questions we're able to ask? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 16 by raising your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 21 sir. 22 MR. FINN: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we'll move to Item 4; consider, 24 discuss, and take appropriate action to adopt a joint 25 resolution by and between the City Council of the City of 2-9-09 20 1 Kerrville and the Kerr County Commissioners Court supporting 2 use of federal stimulus funds for Phase 2 of the airport 3 taxiway/drainage project at the Kerrville/Kerr County 4 Municipal Airport. I put this on the agenda. The City of 5 Kerrville and Kerr County, of course, jointly own the 6 airport, and it's under the jurisdiction of the -- the joint 7 airport board, but we presently have underway Phase 1 of that 8 taxiway relocation and -- and drainage project. Phase 2 is 9 coming up pretty quick. It's estimated to be about an 10 $8 million project, for which there will be a required 11 10 percent match from -- or portion from City and County. 12 That's about $800,000. The City wants to see if we can get 13 stimulus funds for this. If we can get stimulus funds, so 14 much the better, I would think. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we talking about 16 stimulus funds for the match amount of 800 -- 400,000 for 17 each entity, or are we talking about the $8 million? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we're talking about just the 19 portion that we're obligated to pay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The City/County portion of 800,000, 22 approximately. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought so. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The other portion is already 25 funded, correct? Or not? 2-9-09 21 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's committed by TexDOT as 2 Phase 2 of that project. They cut it up into two pieces. 3 It's a $14 million project. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just had this, remember, 6 when we went through our list as one of the projects. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We got some more later we'll get to, 8 as I'm sure everybody's aware. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 13 motion? All in favor of the motion -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Are we going to do 15 -- and this is a little bit of a general question. Rex 16 probably can't answer it. Are we doing resolutions on all 17 the ones that we are going to do? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Later. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all in here? All of 20 them are separate? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: There are some later, yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 24 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 25 raising your right hand. 2-9-09 22 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 5 to Item 5, if we might; consider, discuss, and take 6 appropriate action on report to Commissioners Court of the 7 status of investments under Section 887(b) of the Probate 8 Code. Ms. Pieper? 9 THE CLERK: Judge, she's not here today, but these 10 are just annual reports that are due by March 1st, and they 11 need to be accepted by the Commissioners Court. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a housekeeping measure for 13 the most part that we've approved every year, as I recall. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that correct? 16 THE CLERK: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 2-9-09 23 1 Item 7, if we might; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 2 action to ask for permission for Kerr County Road and Bridge 3 to build a new road and 20-count parking lot for Hill Country 4 Community M.H.M.R. Crisis Stabilization Unit. Mr. Odom? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me prelim this, if I 7 might, Mr. Odom. If the Court will recall, probably in 2005 8 somewhere, there was discussion with the Court -- the first 9 thing that happened in early 2005 is that the civil 10 commitment beds that we had at Kerrville State Hospital were 11 -- were converted to what they call forensic beds, which 12 meant that we -- we would have no place to send our acute 13 civil commitment patients from Kerr County. Representative 14 Hilderbran was able to get interim use of some of those beds 15 pending the ability to get a crisis stabilization unit for 16 civil commitment type patients working out there at the 17 Kerrville State Hospital. That has -- in consideration of 18 having the availability of civil commitment beds to Kerr 19 County, which has a lot of ramifications if we don't have 20 those beds, as I'm sure the Sheriff will attest, as he runs 21 these people all over the countryside if we don't have a 22 place for them here, they had asked if -- the Hill Country 23 Community M.H.M.R. had asked if Kerr County would consider 24 doing its part by putting in a roadway to the facility that 25 they intended to renovate and use for the crisis 2-9-09 24 1 stabilization unit towards the back of the Kerrville State 2 Hospital campus. The original thought was to go down what's 3 known as Texas Drive around the pond that's back there, and I 4 believe at that point in time, the estimate by Mr. Odom was 5 approximately $12,000, as I recall, to do that project. 6 That's my recollection, Leonard. 7 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: There's been a lot of water under 9 the bridge since then. And the Court indicated that that 10 would be appropriate for us to do in consideration of our 11 having the availability of those civil commitment beds for 12 Kerr County patients. Leonard now tells me that they've 13 changed the route to come into that crisis stabilization 14 unit, which is scheduled to open in April, I believe. 15 MR. ODOM: That's what they told me. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: They've been doing a lot of work out 17 there. The Legislature appropriated somewhere in the 18 neighborhood of a million bucks to renovate that place, and 19 it's getting close to ready. But the current plan is to come 20 in off of Sheppard Rees, which Leonard has indicated is -- is 21 a shorter route. So, I'll leave it with you now, Leonard. 22 MR. ODOM: Yeah, that location is up by the 23 maintenance building there on the Sheppard Rees side, and 24 swinging around and coming through a gate, and they're 25 wanting now a 20-count parking lot that would tie into the 2-9-09 25 1 bottom down there by the structure. What I need from the 2 Court is permission to do that, and that I can move forward 3 to -- to do -- we don't have a problem; we can work it in to 4 make it -- make it happen, but I need your authorization. 5 And my question would be -- is the dollars. I don't know 6 where I would be able -- what line item we could come off of 7 to pay for the material. But it's a shorter route; it's 8 probably better. It's between that maintenance building and 9 the cemetery, and they have a gate right there, and they can 10 secure that. It's secure to basically keep people from 11 coming in and out. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to ask the same 13 question I asked last time when we talked about this in 2005, 14 I think. We're building a road for the State, and they want 15 us to pay for it as well? 16 MR. ODOM: Not that I know of. I think there's 17 funds allocated for this, I would assume, because I did not 18 budget anything into this year's budget. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, how do we pay for it, 20 then? I mean -- 21 MR. ODOM: Well, that's my question. I didn't 22 write that down, but what line item for dollars will we cost 23 to? So, I don't know. Maybe the Judge would have an idea. 24 Somebody implied to me there was 30,000-some-odd dollars, one 25 of the young men. And my question to him was, you know, 2-9-09 26 1 where's the money to pay for the material, the cost of the 2 asphalt and the rock and any base material or black base that 3 we might use? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think that whoever 5 you're building a road for would provide the material, and 6 then you provide the -- the County provide the manpower and 7 the building of it. That's the way I would think through it. 8 But -- so we're -- so the taxpayers are to pay for the 9 material too? 10 MR. ODOM: Sir, I -- Road and Bridge is not paying 11 for it, I'll tell you that right now. Road and Bridge is not 12 paying for it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Not coming out of your budget? 14 MR. ODOM: Not coming out of my budget, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, my understanding was 16 that our contribution to that total effort to have civil 17 commitment beds available to us would be that we would put in 18 the road, and that implied to me that whatever materials were 19 required, we would -- we would front those also. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- so, our payoff is -- 21 that may be a bad choice of words, but that's the way it is. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the reality of it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Our payoff is that 24 they're going to house our patients from Kerr County? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2-9-09 27 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We build a road, then they 2 house our patients. Is that the trade? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, somebody needs to 5 know that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The premise -- the problem 7 arose when they -- when they took our civil commitment beds. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And made them forensic, which meant 10 that our -- our local citizens that required mental health 11 services were going to have to be transported who knows 12 where; Big Spring, El Paso, San Antonio, Austin. I don't 13 know where all Rusty's transported these folks, but he's had 14 guys running up and down the road pretty good, and it -- it 15 has taken him a lot of manpower and a lot of time and fuel 16 to take these people where they needed to go on occasion, 17 when they're on diversion. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What were you planning on 19 doing if the road -- the one that we approved in '05, did you 20 build that? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 22 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What were -- who was 24 going to pay for the material then? 25 MR. ODOM: My understanding was that that funds was 2-9-09 28 1 going to come from them. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 MR. ODOM: And that's the way my -- it was a cost 4 estimate that I thought at that time. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 6 MR. ODOM: To put it in. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not opposed to 8 either way. I just -- I just think that we need to know. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10 MR. ODOM: Well, that's -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Weden? 13 MR. WEDEN: Yes? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there any funds available in the 15 Crisis Stabilization Unit construction program for anything 16 in connection with this road? 17 MR. WEDEN: The funds that the State appropriated 18 are all towards -- have all gone towards renovation of the 19 building, the facility itself. Once the facility opens in 20 April, it will create 38 new positions here in Kerr County, 21 with an average annual salary base of another $1.6 million, 22 so that should be bringing some additional tax revenue and 23 other things into the county. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: But the understanding -- 25 MR. WEDEN: One of the things -- 2-9-09 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- when we started talking about 2 this thing in the very beginning, back in '05, when they -- 3 when they snagged all the civil commitment beds for forensic 4 beds, was that this would be Kerr County's contribution to 5 have initial civil commitment beds available. 6 MR. WEDEN: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, what's the estimated 9 cost now? What are we looking at? You said 12,000 was the 10 old number, and with the change in the road now and adding a 11 parking lot -- 12 MR. ODOM: I'm going to say below 20,000. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you building a road or 14 reconstructing something that exists? 15 MR. ODOM: I'm basically building a road, or 16 constructing part of their -- their drive area. And, you 17 know, the parking lot was something else that -- to try to 18 get it in. I just found out it was April; I was a little bit 19 shocked, the -- the timeline that I had. But we were 20 thinking black base. That's the reason I say it may go up 21 for base. Maybe it's less than that. You know, maybe 22 $12,000 may work. It's a whole lot shorter; it's half the 23 distance, is the reason we looked at it to come up with this 24 thing. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Had you always thought you 2-9-09 30 1 would have to construct the parking lot? That was always in 2 the mix? 3 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 5 MR. ODOM: No, the original discussion with me was, 6 "What do you think it would do if you went this route here?" 7 We looked at it, and then we discussed it maybe 30 days ago, 8 of rerouting this to make it shorter, to get it out of the 9 water. We felt like it was more -- more feasible off 10 Sheppard Rees up there. That's -- you know, I'm not in that 11 pay scale to make that decision for the Court. I -- I would 12 assume that -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd argue that point. 14 (Laughter.) 15 MR. ODOM: Well, I -- for me to do that -- I can 16 make a decision real quick, but I don't have any guidelines 17 where this money's at, or I would have budgeted for it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to know who's 19 going to pay for it. 20 MR. ODOM: To my thought, it was -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, if we authorize 22 this thing today, that, to me, is authorizing you to build 23 it. Doesn't say anything about money. 24 MR. ODOM: That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you know, we're going to 2-9-09 31 1 have a separate -- a separate court order in two weeks for 2 the money? Or can we do that? 3 MR. ODOM: I would assume if you authorize me to 4 build it, I guess I have to build it and I have to make it 5 work, and that is the way I took it. Other than is there 6 something I don't know? And I was hoping that the Court had 7 a fund somewhere, a 15-something or a 13 fund. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You knew better than that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would suggest that you 10 might have excess funds in your fuel account. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so too, or his 12 emulsions account. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But that -- 14 MR. ODOM: We won't know that until I open the 15 bids. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, can you give us some 17 help here? 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, I mean, we'll have to look at 19 his budget once he gives me an amount. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, and look in other areas, too, 21 maybe. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since we're saving the Sheriff 23 a lot of time -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I want to make a comment on 2-9-09 32 1 this. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get the moneys out of the 3 Sheriff. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I definitely want to make a 5 comment on this. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jailers' salaries. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get some money out of 8 jailers' salaries. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have -- I don't -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or fuel. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In reality, it could save us a 12 bunch. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Could. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we let the Auditor do some 16 mental gymnastics back there with the numbers, and we'll come 17 back to that one. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, out of the Sheriff's 19 budget. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I make a comment about 21 this whole issue, though? And the Judge knows this. We have 22 gone around and around and had the County Attorney's office 23 involved in setting policy with this transporting patients 24 all over the state, and it literally has been all over the 25 state. Whether it's El Paso, Big Springs, Rusk, Austin, San 2-9-09 33 1 Antonio, it's constant. And we have pretty well decided here 2 lately that the law doesn't allow us to do that. It allows 3 us to take them to the nearest inpatient facility, which is 4 Kerrville State Hospital, nowhere else. So -- and then 5 that's when we found out that the 16 beds we were supposed to 6 have at Kerrville State Hospital were being used for 7 long-term and also for forensics, and they were making us 8 take these other ones. So, I think we've gotten a handle on 9 that. 10 The issue I had with this, and I'm in total 11 agreement with it, is if it works and they -- and they pretty 12 well tell us that -- I don't know if you want to say 13 "guaranteed" or whatever, but this area for M.H.M.R. is 19 14 counties, 19-county cachement area, and those 16 beds serve 15 those 19 counties. Now, if Kerr County's going to pay all 16 this, I don't want to be transporting inmates -- or patients 17 anywhere. We shouldn't have to at all. And I'm not -- I 18 don't think we're going to. And I'm not sure, the last time 19 I dealt with M.H.M.R., if they have the funds to even buy 20 their vans or whatever and transport their own patients 21 somewhere; I don't know how that's going to work through all 22 this Legislature stuff. But us and the City of Kerrville 23 have spent major money in the last few years having to 24 transport patients when the law doesn't allow us to when 25 there's a local facility here. Except for the juveniles; the 2-9-09 34 1 minors, we have to, 'cause there isn't an appropriate 2 inpatient one for them. But I just want to make sure that 3 Kerr County, out of those 19 county catchment areas, we're -- 4 if y'all are going to do this, we get the beds, 'cause we 5 have to have them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we get the beds? That was a 7 nod. That was an affirmative nod. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Went up and down; I saw it. 9 MR. WEDEN: Yes. In the crisis stabilization unit, 10 the maximum length of stay of any patient to get stabilized 11 is 14 days, so there will be much more availability of beds. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And does Kerr County -- if 13 we're the ones to pay, do we get priority out of the 19 14 counties? 15 MR. WEDEN: We will be the local unit, so they can 16 bring anybody over any time. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The advantage also there is, once 19 they go to crisis stabilization unit, if they then require a 20 longer term treatment, -- 21 MR. WEDEN: Then Hill Country will transport. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it's their patient, and they have 23 to transport wherever they have to transport to. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry, Commissioner? 2-9-09 35 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just wondering if that's 2 the place for -- you know, I have some friends that need to 3 be stabilized. And -- (Laughter.) You think that that would 4 be the place for them? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, some of those friends 6 that you're talking about, when I talked to them, they 7 suggested you need to be stabilized. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's possible. 9 That's actually what I'm saying. But -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, do you want to go ahead 11 and authorize Road and Bridge to do it so they can start 12 their planning? Then we could come back at our next meeting 13 to find out where the funds come from. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's the way you want to play 15 it, that's fine with me, Commissioner. Is that a motion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a motion to approve. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's a commitment. 18 I mean, we want to commit to it. I'll second that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 20 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here's the deal. If -- if 22 M.H.M.R. decides to come up with the money, then he can start 23 today. 24 MR. ODOM: Does this give me permission to go out 25 to start this work? 2-9-09 36 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. ODOM: All right. Then I will -- Commissioner 5 Baldwin, I will look to be as frugal as I can. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: As usual. 8 MR. ODOM: As usual. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 10 that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. We 16 have a 9:30 timed item. We'll go to that. Item 6, 17 Commissioner Baldwin announcing a 911 signage campaign. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. This is something 19 new and -- new and exciting. Mr. Amerine from the 911 20 system, please come forward. Let's talk about our new 911 21 signage campaign that's old. 22 MR. AMERINE: Thank you, Judge Tinley, 23 Commissioners. Bill Amerine, Executive Director for Kerr 24 Emergency 911 in Kerr County, Texas. We've done this sign 25 production for residences and businesses since I've been 2-9-09 37 1 here, 2003. We've publicized this in the past in the local 2 papers and through flyers and mailboxes. As a matter of 3 fact, letters that we provide today when people come in to 4 get address verifications or get new addresses, we have a 5 little verbiage on the bottom that specifically spells out 6 that appropriate signage is critical to their -- to their 7 safety. There is still a large segment of our citizenry here 8 that hasn't gotten that message and still don't sign their 9 properties. Rural dwellings are probably the worst offenders 10 of this common-sense application of their own safety. 11 Primarily, -- and I think, and it's pure speculation on my 12 part -- there seems to be an imbalance between people that -- 13 the desire for their privacy and their own safety. 14 So, with Commissioner Baldwin calling me last week 15 and saying that he's got some volunteer firemen that are 16 still having difficulty finding residences on 911 calls -- 17 and they're not alone. I'm sure the Sheriff, the local city 18 police, paid fire departments and volunteer fire departments 19 could tell you about what should take 10, 15 minutes to find 20 a 911 caller can take as much as an hour and a half, as they 21 can go door to door or farm to farm, ranch to ranch trying to 22 find where the call came from. So, what we'll do to try to 23 reach those folks that we haven't reached is, we'll get in 24 contact with the individual volunteer fire departments and 25 we'll go out into the community on selected dates, after 2-9-09 38 1 they've been well advertised, and we'll spend a day in those 2 communities making signs and verifying addresses. 3 I'm glad to see that we have at least two members 4 of the press here, and we'll write an article, or perhaps 5 they can elaborate on what I've spoken about here today to 6 get the word out that that signage is critical. I'll spend 7 30 seconds, and then I'll take questions, explaining all the 8 effort that goes into handling a 911 call, and the fact that 9 that individual citizen is the weakest link in that process. 10 When you think about a 911 call, all the work that goes into 11 that, all the people that participate, typically it's 12 anywhere from 3 to 15 people that respond in an emergency. 13 You look at the training, their certifications, the time they 14 spend perfecting their skills so that when they get that 15 call, when they get the direction to go out and provide 16 assistance, that they can do so quickly, and most adequately, 17 that they can deal with that emergency. The one step, the 18 weakest link is the citizen. 19 A lot of folks don't take the time or the effort, 20 or they don't even really think about it. Most of us think 21 we're never going to have an emergency. I don't have to 22 worry about dialing 911. I don't need to be able to 23 adequately think about how I'm going to respond in an 24 emergency when my child is sick, my wife is unconscious, my 25 house is on fire. So, they don't think about that sign 2-9-09 39 1 that's on their property. I have listened to dozens and 2 dozens of 911 calls where people can't even tell you who they 3 are in that circumstance. 4 Now, our system, what we've done and what we have 5 in place today, is out of 32,000 phone lines, we have 6 99.9 percent of those automatically come up on our screen 7 with an address, so the dispatcher already has an advantage, 8 where our wireless calls, all but one carrier provides 9 latitude and longitude when you dial 911. So, we're going 10 to -- going to find you, most likely. But when you actually 11 get out to that residence and you don't see any visual 12 indication that you've found it, and there's multiple 13 residences, you end up going door-to-door. I don't 14 understand why folks don't understand that concept, why they 15 lack the foresight to think, "Gee, you know, this little blue 16 sign, or a sign of my own making will make the difference 17 between life and death, or saving my property." So, I'm 18 trying to be -- to be a little bit more dramatic than normal, 19 but it is really the weakest link in this whole process. And 20 we'll get the word out, with Commissioner Baldwin's blessing, 21 to all the volunteer fire departments -- the Court's 22 blessing. And we'll get out in the community and try to get 23 some of those signs up. Now, in the six years I've been 24 here, we've probably produced about 11 and a half signs -- 11 25 and a half thousand signs, but by my estimation alone, 2-9-09 40 1 there's probably about 3,000 to 4,000 residences out there, 2 or farms, ranches that have no signage at all, and those are 3 just disasters waiting to happen. So, we'll do our best. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, along with that, I 5 think there is a segment out there, too, that think, "Well 6 you know, I'm not going to let government tell me what to do 7 and put signs, numbers and all that on my property." It's 8 not about us wanting or needing your information. It's about 9 us coming there to save your life and your property. 10 MR. AMERINE: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- see, and that's where 12 you and I agree, is that I don't -- I don't understand people 13 not getting that concept. We're there to help them, and 14 that's the only reason that we're doing this thing. And what 15 is the cost of this sign? 16 MR. AMERINE: It's less than what you'd spend on 17 lunch here in town. It's $5 for a sign. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $5. 19 MR. AMERINE: For someone to come into our office 20 and purchase a sign, and we verify their address. We want to 21 make sure the data that's displayed to our dispatchers is 22 correct, so we take a few moments to verify the information 23 they provide to us. They say, "This is my address." We 24 verify it. The time it takes to verify that and produce a 25 sign is less than five minutes. No one's ever had to wait to 2-9-09 41 1 get a sign produced in our office. Now, we're open 8:00 to 2 6:00 Monday through Friday. There's always someone there 3 that can produce a sign. It's the cheapest insurance you can 4 get to make the difference between perhaps a 15-minute 5 response and an hour and a half response. And, you know, it 6 frustrates me, but I'm just an administrator. You need to 7 talk to the responders who, like I said, spend thousands of 8 hours of their time certifying to be able to respond to these 9 emergencies, and they end up going door-to-door going, "Did 10 you call 911? Did you call 911?" And it happens a lot more 11 frequently than I think a lot of people are aware. So, we'll 12 do our best to get the word out again, and get some signs 13 made. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill? 16 MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem is, people don't 18 think. You know -- 19 MR. AMERINE: They don't think it's going to happen 20 to them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. In your efforts, if you 22 would make sure you work with the Comfort Fire Department, 23 'cause they have such a huge area. 24 MR. AMERINE: Absolutely. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you may note in your press 2-9-09 42 1 release information, there are two papers in Comfort now. 2 MR. AMERINE: Is there? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort News and the Comfort 4 Connection. Both small, but people do read them. And, you 5 know, you'll probably get in that part of the county more 6 feedback by doing those little local papers. 7 MR. AMERINE: We want to do this as quickly as we 8 can in the first part of this year, but in talking to a 9 couple of the volunteer fire chiefs, they've suggested, and I 10 think it's a good idea, that they typically have fundraisers 11 throughout the year, barbecues and other things, and they 12 generally get a pretty good turnout, 'cause they send out 13 flyers to all of their contributors in their communities, and 14 say, "Hey, we're going to do this as a fundraiser." We might 15 do some of our sign-making events at those events, 'cause 16 you're going to have turnout of hundreds of people. That 17 might reach more folks that way. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any idea how large the 19 segment is that don't have signs, Bill? 20 MR. AMERINE: I think it's 3,000 to 4,000 dwellings 21 in the unincorporated area of Kerr County that probably still 22 have no signage. I mean, I'll give you a for instance. If 23 you drive from Kerrville out to Comfort, there should be 122 24 address signs on the highway, and the last count last time I 25 drove out there to my dentist in Comfort, I counted about 45. 2-9-09 43 1 So, there's at least 80 accesses into properties out there 2 that have no signage at all. And a lot of these, if you -- 3 if you're familiar with that road -- and I know you are; 4 that's your area out there, as well as you, Commissioner 5 Letz. A lot of these properties that you can't even see the 6 dwellings from Highway 27. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 8 MR. AMERINE: They're way off the road. So, out 9 there at the gate or the fence line, a simple blue sign that 10 has that number on it, and doesn't tell anybody anything; 11 it's just a number. Doesn't say who lives back there or what 12 property you have. You know, it's just really nonsense not 13 to put this sign up. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good program. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Bill. 16 MR. AMERINE: You're welcome. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Amerine. Let's move 18 to Item 8; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 19 set a public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 2A-1 20 and 2A-2 in Pecan Valley Number 2 subdivision, located in 21 Precinct 2. Mr. Odom. 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Frandolig owns Lot 2A, 23 5.01 acres in Pecan Valley Number 2 Subdivision, recorded in 24 Volume 6, Page 316, Plat Records. The gentleman wants to 25 subdivide his 5.01 acres into Lot 2A-1, 2 acres, and Lot 2-9-09 44 1 2A-2, 3 acres. Pecan Valley uses Aqua, Texas for their water 2 service, and have submitted a letter having the approved 3 water availability for the additional lot. The subdivision 4 of Lot 2A would put the total number of lots in Pecan Valley 5 Number 2 at 45 lots. Maximum number of lots in Pecan Valley 6 Number 2 is 74 lots. At this time, we ask you to accept the 7 revision of Tract 2A in Pecan Valley Number 2 and set a 8 public hearing for March the 23rd, 2009, at 10:05 a.m. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, we're just setting a 10 public hearing, and we're doing the approval after the public 11 hearing. 12 MR. ODOM: That's right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Your request, then, is to set a 14 public hearing for March the 23rd, 2009, at 10:05 a.m. on 15 this matter before the Court? 16 MR. ODOM: That is correct. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I so move. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for 20 setting the public hearing as indicated. Question or 21 discussion on the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Great job of presenting all the 25 information. I mean, I'm -- I know it was a simple one, but 2-9-09 45 1 you went through the total number of lots they're allowed to 2 have and -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes it real clear, and I 5 didn't have to ask any questions. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 7 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 8 hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 13 Item 9, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 14 action to authorize Road and Bridge Administrator to 15 collaborate with the City of Kerrville on sealcoating project 16 for city streets. I put this on the agenda. As I'm sure the 17 members of the Court will recall, a few years ago, I 18 suggested that we need to find other ways to collaborate with 19 our local government partner to provide efficiency to our -- 20 our common constituents and taxpayers, and one of the items 21 was to try and find some way to combine the efficiencies of 22 the two departments in road matters. And we had a little 23 test project here last year that apparently went off pretty 24 good, and now we've got another project on the board that 25 Mr. Odom and Mr. Hastings from the City have -- have put 2-9-09 46 1 together that they want to collaborate on, and I think we can 2 create some efficiency with our constituents and taxpayers in 3 the city by collaborating with this project. This project, 4 unlike the other one, would not involve the County acquiring 5 any materials. We would require them, but they would be paid 6 for by the City. 7 MR. ODOM: Paid for, right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: They'd be acquired under our -- our 9 bid process -- 10 MR. ODOM: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that we have the price locked in, 12 but we'd be reimbursed from the City. And the backup 13 indicates that the City would do all the prep work, the base 14 work, the traffic control, things of that nature. And 15 because we have the right kind of equipment, when it came 16 time to do the actual sealcoating, we'd bring our equipment 17 and our personnel in. We'd shoot, we'd lay the rock down, 18 we'd roll it, and voilà, we're done. 19 MR. ODOM: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I've got a question. 21 MR. ODOM: Okay, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we sure that the City 23 wants -- wants us to participate in this? Or is this what 24 we're doing? We're asking Leonard to find out the answer to 25 that question? Well, lookie here. 2-9-09 47 1 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. Commissioner Baldwin, 2 absolutely, City's on board. All of our Council members are 3 on board with this. Len and I are on board. We've worked 4 out the logistics; we've gone and looked at the site. He 5 told us what he needed to have done to have it prepped. We 6 prepped about 75 percent of it, but we've got until, you 7 know, June or July, sometime this summer when it gets hot, 8 before the work actually gets done, so we will be ready. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And so y'all -- the 10 City pays for the material, and we do the work. 11 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good deal. Now, 13 what do -- what do we get -- do we get anything in return? 14 MR. HASTINGS: Some happy taxpayers. 15 MR. ODOM: Attaboy. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we'll -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who live in Precinct 2. 18 (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- is that what this is 20 about? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what this is, a 22 Precinct 2 deal? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's either that, or we're 24 making -- we're making the City Councilman that's really 25 concerned about double taxation happy. 2-9-09 48 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That, too. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of those two issues. 3 MR. HASTINGS: Both. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, this is a 6 collaborative effort to increase efficiency for our common 7 constituents and taxpayers. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Now, what about -- 9 the next agenda item is floodplain. Could it possibly be -- 10 I mean, could we see a trade-off there? I'm not suggesting 11 that in any way, but... 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oops. 13 MR. HASTINGS: No. 14 MR. ODOM: I wouldn't take that as a final no, 15 Commissioner. (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What roads are y'all -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is all very 18 enlightening, but can I ask exactly which road is it off of 19 Singing Wind that we're rehabbing? 20 MR. HASTINGS: The Olympic Drive, and then there's 21 several streets that are off of Olympic Drive. The names are 22 escaping me right now, but it's about 3 miles -- linear miles 23 total of roadway. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 25 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 2-9-09 49 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the time estimate? I 2 mean, how long will it take you to do 3 miles in this area? 3 MR. ODOM: Less than a week. And I -- you know, if 4 everything was there and everything was ready and no 5 problems, I figured three to four days, we're out of there. 6 However, worst scenario, two weeks, it's over with. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When would you start? 8 MR. ODOM: I want to -- I don't have a definitive 9 answer, but it will be when the weather arms up. I have some 10 sealcoat that I wish to do. I had one gentleman leave that 11 was doing the distributor, so I have some work I want to do 12 on some dirt roads to get some experience with our crews, and 13 then if they're ready, maybe we would shoot that before I get 14 into all mine. But we have so much ready now, and it looks 15 like most of this will be ready by April. By the first of 16 May, we ought to have everything that we're going to do 17 ready, and then we will move in to start doing sealcoat. 18 What's not done will be deferred into the summer, and we'll 19 finish it, and we'll probably hit them somewhere in that 20 first interim sometime, if they're ready. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 22 item. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 2-9-09 50 1 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still think we need to see 7 what we get in return, though. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can come up -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute, Charlie. Hold it. 10 MR. ODOM: Don't leave, Charlie. You already know 11 about the next one. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can come up with things, 13 Commissioner. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before Charlie gets 16 away, can we do that -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, because of the 18 possibility on the next item that -- that there might be some 19 executive session required, I re-agendaed that to indicate 20 that. Do you want to consider item 10 now, or do you want to 21 go ahead and move that towards the back? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to move it towards 23 the back. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I think it's a 2-9-09 51 1 separate conversation. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, as long as Charlie's 4 still here, can we take 13? 'Cause it involves a discussion 5 he and I have had. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move, then, to Item 13, 7 if we might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 8 to set a public hearing for the 2009-2010 Texas Community 9 Block Grant Colonia Fund for 5:30 p.m. Tuesday, February 10 24th, 2009, in the Commissioners Courtroom of Kerr County 11 Courthouse, with Grantworks to conduct that public hearing. 12 Commissioner Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. This is 14 a continuation of our sewer project and the cleanup mode, and 15 then seeking some funding through the Colonias C.D.B.G. Block 16 Grant funds for the cleanup of other projects. We still have 17 some work to do after we finish what's in the conduit right 18 now in Kerrville South. We'd like to finish Quail Valley, 19 and we'd like to be able to hook up the apartment house 20 complex at the corner of Ranchero and Quail Valley. It's 21 actually on Ranchero Road, about 52 units in that apartment 22 house complex. Also, Commissioner Oehler and I have had 23 discussions about this. There is a -- there is a mobile home 24 park; I believe it is Blue Ridge/Ocaso -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Blue Ridge. 2-9-09 52 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Bruce's precinct. And, 2 Charlie, I'll get to a discussion with the City in just a 3 second. That the City started that project, or received 4 funding for it, and went as far as the funds would take them, 5 I believe, about four, five years ago. Is that correct, 6 Charlie? 7 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something like that. And 9 this would give us an opportunity to finish that project up 10 and roll it all up into one block grant request through 11 O.R.C.A. I had a discussion with Mr. Hastings and City 12 Manager Don Davis about these projects, and I believe it's 13 going to be on your agenda coming up -- 14 MR. HASTINGS: February 24th. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- February 24th for the 16 same purpose. Grantworks, as the Court will remember, 17 typically conducts these public hearings in which they 18 participate, and they tell the public exactly what the 19 application's all about and what projects it would entail and 20 so forth and so on, and they will do that in the 21 Commissioners Courtroom on the 24th. This would be an 22 application for the '09-'10 funding. It would be possibly a 23 half million dollar cleanup grant. That's what it would 24 entail. Charlie, do you have anything to add from the city 25 point of view? 2-9-09 53 1 MR. HASTINGS: Sure, I'd love to. Thank you. I 2 will be preparing that agenda bill this week for 3 February 24th, so Council will get their first heads-up on 4 that next week when the agenda bill packets go out. But the 5 -- some of the hurdles that we needed to make sure -- and 6 bases that we needed to cover before our Council could 7 proceed, number one, I needed to check into our capacity, and 8 you've delivered those values to us. We've plugged them into 9 our model. I should have an answer this week as to do we 10 have capacity immediately, and if we don't, how can we manage 11 it? The second issue would be nonpayment management. We 12 have sometimes customers that refuse to pay, and in the city, 13 if you don't pay your sewer bill, we turn your water off so 14 that you can't use the facilities. And if you don't live in 15 the city, we don't own the water system; it's a different 16 issue. However, we have managed that in the past by working 17 with Aqua, Texas, who I believe is one of the water providers 18 over in Blue Ridge also in the Kerrville South area. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 20 MR. HASTINGS: We have an agreement where they will 21 shut the water off. So, we're -- I think we've got that 22 managed. I'm not worried about that issue any more; I just 23 wanted to make you aware of it. And, of course, finally, the 24 last issue -- and this is totally a Council decision; I can't 25 make this for them. They have to decide whether or not we're 2-9-09 54 1 going to try to annex or not. When you ask for city 2 utilities, the process is that you're asking to be annexed. 3 And, obviously, we've got everyone in the Kerrville South 4 area; that's all pretty much hemmed up. And even in the Blue 5 Ridge, the -- that first initial phase, we didn't annex, but 6 still, that's a hurdle that has to be taken. So, those are 7 the three main issues. And the last one, annexation, is 8 really the big question mark that I don't -- I don't have an 9 answer for that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is one other piece, 12 too, and that's the potential capacity of the lift station at 13 the end of Quail Valley, which currently is in -- is in 14 operation now. Once we hook up the apartment house complex, 15 that lift station may need some upgrade also. 16 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pumping upgrade. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie, question. Do you plan 19 to put on the agenda on the 24th -- I think you said the 20 overall annexation issue? Because when it comes to -- I mean 21 two Councilmen have -- are -- 22 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- presenting that that's -- 24 MR. HASTINGS: That is -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- changing the policy on this. 2-9-09 55 1 MR. HASTINGS: Well, I can't remember if that's on 2 the February 24th agenda or if it's on -- in March, but I 3 know it's coming up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. HASTINGS: And that -- this issue will be 6 addressed very soon. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's going to be -- I 8 read y'all's agenda. 9 MR. HASTINGS: Is it on the 24th? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's the 24th. 11 MR. HASTINGS: I'm thinking it is too. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good, 'cause, I mean, 13 this agenda -- this issue is that the City is considering 14 taking on water and sewer outside the city limits. That's 15 what I'm talking about. 'Cause two Councilmen are saying 16 that the City's going that direction. You may not know that, 17 but Council thinks that. 18 MR. HASTINGS: No, no, no, I know what you're 19 talking about. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's C.N.N. that you're -- 21 MR. HASTINGS: C.C.N. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: C.C.N., excuse me. 23 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. And that -- that's on next 24 week's agenda. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2-9-09 56 1 MR. HASTINGS: No, that's this week's; that's 2 tomorrow. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This week's? 4 MR. HASTINGS: That's tomorrow night. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I should have you some flows 8 shortly. 9 MR. HASTINGS: Excellent. Excellent, thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm working on that area. 11 MR. HASTINGS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I have begun to gather 13 that information. 14 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. And it will be the same 15 issues on that. It's the same area. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Same area. 17 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you so much. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Charlie. 19 MR. HASTINGS: You're welcome. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval of the 21 agenda item, and set the public hearing to be conducted by 22 Grantworks on February 24th at 5:30 p.m. in the Commissioners 23 Courtroom. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2-9-09 57 1 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- shouldn't you wait and 3 do that after the City meets on the 24th and they approve 4 what they want to do? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's kind of a public 6 window. You have got to get the public hearing -- the 7 application will come back to us next time, so if there's any 8 problem, we won't proceed with the application, but we need 9 to get the public hearing out of the way. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment? All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 17 to Item 10 -- or, excuse me, Item 22, which is a 10 a.m. 18 timed item. It is on your addendum, to consider, discuss, 19 and take appropriate action to approve one or more of the 20 following joint resolutions with the City of Kerrville: 21 Airport water line, TexDOT drainage project, U.S.D.A. 22 facility, and lake dredging project. The -- the City is 23 going to -- has requested that we join them in a joint 24 resolution for stimulus funding for the projects that are 25 enumerated. I think at least three of them are very familiar 2-9-09 58 1 to us. The airport water line, which I think was priority 2 one -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in our stimulus package -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- ranking. The U.S.D.A. facility, 7 of course, we've been working on for a number of years. The 8 lake dredging project, of course, is something that we're 9 interested in. The TexDOT drainage project, that runs from 10 -- it's on Harper Road; that runs from Jackson Road down to 11 Highway 27, I believe. 12 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And they're asking us to join with 14 them in a joint resolution for stimulus funding on those 15 particular projects. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have no problem with 17 adding that, but I would like to add one to the list, which 18 would be -- I think it was our number two item, which is the 19 Hill Country Youth Exhibit project. I wouldn't know why the 20 City wouldn't want to join us on that one. It certainly has 21 major impact to the city, and that was one of our highest 22 priority ones. If we're going to do resolutions, we ought to 23 include all of them that we have. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know why we 25 couldn't do that. Even if the City doesn't add it to their 2-9-09 59 1 resolution, we could certainly add it to ours. 2 MR. EMERSON: I don't have a copy of the agenda 3 item, so I don't know. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's good that you don't. 5 (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's intentional sometimes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't give him one. 8 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be preferable 10 for the City to join on that, since we're joining on one of 11 theirs. And -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He doesn't want it no more. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 14 MR. EMERSON: Pretty restrictive agenda item. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Charlie? 16 MR. HASTINGS: I apologize, I didn't hear the full 17 name of that last project. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hill Country Youth Exhibit 19 Center. It's our -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ag Barn. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Ag Barn. 22 MR. HASTINGS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a no-go anyway, so -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: They do not have time to put it on 25 their agenda for tomorrow evening. These items are on their 2-9-09 60 1 agenda for tomorrow evening. And, of course, I'm sorry, 2 gentlemen; we are where we are. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And these have to be in 4 Congressman Smith's office by -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The first deadline that we were 6 given, and as far as I know, it is still applicable, is the 7 13th, which is this Friday. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, that's to the Congressman's 10 office. You know, we've got to deal with what we have before 11 us. And, certainly, we could get one for the next meeting 12 and then transmit it to the City for their approval the 13 following day, which will be the 24th. I think that's the 14 way -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have a motion? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Not yet. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Let me ask you a 18 question. So, we're talking about the airport water line, 19 TexDOT drainage project, -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- U.S.D.A. facility, and 22 lake dredging project. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 2-9-09 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all we're talking 2 about? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it say "lake draining 9 project" in this resolution? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lake dredging. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dredging, draining. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same difference. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, yes, except that 14 we're talking about three lakes, and one of them's right near 15 the city, and two of them are not as near. And I think 16 it's -- I mean, our intent is all three lakes. It certainly 17 should be plural, anyway. I guess -- you know, I mean, to 18 me, I understand we have some deadlines coming up, and I'll 19 go ahead and vote for this 'cause it's supporting, but -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, lake dredging could be 21 all of them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It says "river dredging," is what 23 the resolution says. River dredging. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This one says "lake 25 dredging." 2-9-09 62 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The agenda item says 2 "lake," as in one lake. All we need is an "s" on that lake. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Lake dredging could be any of 5 them or all of them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just -- it seems to me 7 that we're -- I mean, I guess we have to get this to 8 Congressman Smith; if he wants them by the 13th, we should, 9 but we ought to clean these things up and do them as one 10 resolution, do them all at one time. I mean, we're splitting 11 up -- you know, why have three resolutions floating around 12 out there when we can do it in one? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- these things may end up going 14 to different agencies. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then let's do five resolutions, 16 which I think probably makes more sense. I just think that 17 we're going about it, you know, backwards. 'Cause it doesn't 18 look like we've really thought this thing through. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How so, Commissioner? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think one of our 21 highest -- our highest priority isn't mentioned anywhere. 22 Our previous work mentioned Ingram, Flat Rock, and the Center 23 Point lake specifically, right? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I think we need to be 2-9-09 63 1 consistent in what we're doing. You know, I guess we can go 2 ahead and do this and then send it, but I think it looks like 3 we're kind of disorganized down here. Which maybe we are. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, this stimulus thing, there's 5 not -- there's not a blueprint for it, and people are -- 6 people are groping for how to approach these things. And -- 7 and these things have pretty short fuses on them. And, 8 certainly, we can come back at our next meeting and do 9 something specifically, obviously, on the -- on the Youth 10 Exhibit Center, and I would actually anticipate the City's 11 cooperation in that. And if you want to bring one that's 12 narrowly confined to repair and upgrade of these three major 13 dams, I could see where that would be in the City's best 14 interest, if for nothing else, for the safety measure. You 15 know, if you got a safety problem with -- with Ingram, it 16 could cause some pretty good consequences downstream here in 17 Kerrville. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why couldn't we do this and 19 then -- then clean it up and send to it Congressman Smith 20 immediately after we've cleaned it up? The point about 21 repairs is not mentioned in there, dam repairs, and that is 22 something we talked about. Yeah, I'm -- I'm confident in my 23 mind that the language with respect to Guadalupe River 24 dredging project could be defined and understood as being our 25 three lakes that we have jurisdiction over. I think we could 2-9-09 64 1 make that case. What we don't include in here is dam 2 repairs, which is something that ought to be part of -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It needs to be part of it, 4 just because that's where we're going to need to find a 5 couple hundred thousand dollars to start with. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we were to send 7 this -- if we were to approve this today, and then come back 8 with a cleanup resolution that -- that takes care of 9 Commissioner Letz' point that he made about leaving out the 10 Ag Barn, and strengthening it with respect to dam repairs, 11 why would that not work? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's what we're faced 13 with, Commissioner. I think at this point, with the agenda 14 item being what it is, and where we are, that's pretty well 15 the only option we've got if we're going to get there, to get 16 all of those on the table before the congressional offices. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the reality of the 18 stimulus is, they're not even going to have a bill before the 19 16th, or -- if then, 'cause they're going to start haggling 20 between the Senate and the House now. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think being all 22 presented as separate resolutions, I would pull the one about 23 river dredging; I don't know -- this says that they've talked 24 to us, refers to us talking about that. This is the first 25 time I've ever heard it called a river dredging project. 2-9-09 65 1 It's not a river dredging project; it's a lake repair 2 project. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Dam repair. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dam repair and lake 5 dredging. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's going to 7 look really bad if we pass it and call it one thing now, and 8 two weeks later, call it something different. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd pull that out. I agree 10 with you on that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but let me come at it from 12 this point. Now, we're not directly affected by the -- 13 necessarily by the drainage project on Harper Road to -- from 14 Jackson to Sidney Baker. That's not something that we 15 traditionally would be addressing, but we're doing this as an 16 accommodation to the City for stimulus funding. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They're talking about river 19 dredging, and that could be -- well be something totally 20 different from a specific dam repair and upgrade project, so 21 I think we could very easily be talking about two totally 22 different things. Because the resolution itself speaks to 23 river dredging. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where did that come from? Do 25 you have any idea? Did the City propose that? 2-9-09 66 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I do know where it 2 came from, and it's a little bit different in terms of its 3 concept. When you talk about river dredging project, it's a 4 little bit different than what we started talking about, 5 which was lake cleanup and dam repair. And -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're talking about areas 7 that are unrelated to -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're talking about areas 9 of the river, and Leonard and I participated in a meeting on 10 that -- was it Friday? Yes, it was Friday. 11 MR. ODOM: Friday. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last Friday, where there is 13 some new thought originating from the City with respect to 14 some channel cleanup or -- or mining in the floodplain to 15 improve the channel in areas outside of our lakes. So, 16 that's -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, now it's becoming a 18 little more clear. I didn't know what you were talking 19 about. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably how you get 21 that river dredging project designation, which is somewhat 22 different than where we started. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. Doesn't have 24 anything to do with what we're -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about. 2-9-09 67 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we're talking about 2 wanting to do. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somewhat different. 4 Leonard and I participated in that meeting with a City 5 Councilman, and met with representatives of the City staff, 6 and we talked about these areas. And Leonard can add 7 anything he wants to add to this discussion. And it involves 8 -- it requires that if we were to move forward with it, or 9 permission from the floodplain manager to allow these 10 aggregate companies to mine in the floodplain, and closer to 11 the river channel, down around where the vegetation bar is. 12 So, it's a different -- it's a little different animal. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as we understand what 14 it is that we're supporting here by voting for this -- this 15 agenda item. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we -- are we setting -- by 18 doing this, setting priorities of these over ours? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's not what those 20 resolutions say. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that, but it's -- it 22 kind of -- you know, if you have joint resolutions on some 23 and not on others, it's a -- you know, it concerns me. 24 That's why -- you know, because, you know, I have no problem 25 at all with supporting all the -- anything the City wants to 2-9-09 68 1 do internally, and there's some of them that are joint 2 between the City and the County, but I don't put a higher 3 priority on that river dredging, as I've just heard 4 explained, over our lake cleanout and dam repair project. I 5 mean, I think -- you know, I don't want to get -- send a 6 signal that, you know, these are more important. And I think 7 we need to have resolutions on our next agenda to add 8 everything of ours and send them to the City for joint 9 approval. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think that's -- that's what 11 I'm hearing is being proposed here today. Unfortunately, we 12 weren't in a position to do that today, but we can certainly 13 get that accomplished by next meeting to add the -- the dam 14 repair and upgrades, and also the Youth Exhibit Center. And, 15 like I say, I fully anticipate their cooperation there, much 16 as we're cooperating here. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's one other element 19 which I'll bring the Court into -- into play on. In that 20 meeting -- was it last Friday, Leonard? 21 MR. ODOM: Yeah, I believe it was last Friday 22 afternoon. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last Friday, the aggregate 24 folks there and members of the City staff and Councilman 25 Motheral, we talked about this river dredging, which was his 2-9-09 69 1 initiative, and I laid another one on him that -- which would 2 require some stimulus money, 'cause it would be a major 3 project, and that would be to -- asking the aggregate folks, 4 particularly Martin Marietta, to think about joining with the 5 County in a reclamation project, and converting the pit that 6 exists off of -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sutherland. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Sutherland Road, the big 9 pit out there, a reclamation project, and working to create 10 an off-channel reservoir for stormwater, and I threw that in 11 the mix. You know, this doesn't contemplate that, but if we 12 were looking for some of this largesse out of Washington, we 13 certainly ought to be talking about it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 15 approve -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We already have a motion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We do? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. 19 THE CLERK: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the motion? 21 THE CLERK: To approve the joint resolutions with 22 the City of Kerrville. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All four of them. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All four of them, okay. 2-9-09 70 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the motion again? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Approve all four. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: To approve the agenda item, all 5 four. All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to come back 12 and clean it up, right? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Next meeting, we'll bring 14 those -- at least those other two. Thank you, Charlie. 15 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here. 17 MR. HASTINGS: You run a fine meeting, Judge. 18 Appreciate it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 20 MR. HASTINGS: No, seriously, don't laugh at that. 21 I enjoyed this. Good meeting. Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That doesn't mean you get a 24 raise. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 2-9-09 71 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless the City's going to pay 2 for it. Then Buster would okay that. Wouldn't you, Buster? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 14; consider, 5 discuss, take appropriate action to determine whether or not 6 a policy change is needed in the Facilities Use Policy for 7 the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, to include all 8 nonprofits listed under the 501(c) section of the I.R.S. 9 Code. I put this on the agenda as a result of -- the policy 10 now says 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(6), but there are obviously the 11 omission of a number of numbers there, and we had one come in 12 that was a 501 -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: (c)(4). 14 MS. GRINSTEAD: Seven. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- (c)(7). And this may not be 16 something that -- that we want to take action on now, but do 17 we want to take a look at it? 'Cause there are a number of 18 different categories under 501(c) that delineate various 19 types of activities that -- that may have some bearing upon 20 what our policy is out there at the Youth Exhibit Center. 21 But the fact of -- we get a 501(c)(7) come in, it -- I can 22 not recall why in the world we came up with 501(c)(3) and 23 (6), to the omission of the rest of them. But -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- what is the general 25 501(c)? 2-9-09 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Charitable, educational, et cetera. 2 MS. HARGIS: Charitable, educational nonprofit 3 organizations. And, like, a (4) is, like, fire departments; 4 a lot of them are falling under that now. I'm not familiar 5 right off the top of my head with (7), but there's several 6 different numbers that have been created to further delineate 7 the actual nonprofit organization as to what they do, and -- 8 and some of them don't require as much paperwork. A 9 501(c)(3) requires more paperwork to I.R.S. than any of the 10 others, so the rest of them, depending on their organization, 11 the paperwork involved, and being the type of organization is 12 a little less, so that's why a lot of them are filing 13 under -- the fire departments are going under (4) because it 14 fits better. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 501(c)(3) is for charitable 16 not-for-profits. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You got the other designations in 18 there. Chamber of Commerce, I think, is a (6). It's 19 not-for-profit, but it's not charitable. You have all sorts 20 of different designations in there that -- 21 MS. HARGIS: Schools, different things like that. 22 MS. GRINSTEAD: (7) was a social club. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Social club? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the definition of 25 "charitable"? Charitable to me, or charitable to people? Me 2-9-09 73 1 or them? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to go with you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I like that. The -- 4 was that our intention, is to deal with charitable 5 organizations only? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think probably we 7 really didn't think through the whole thing when we set up 8 501(c). The normal thought process is that it's (c)(3) and 9 it's charitable and it helps some segment of the public. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Or are we just -- 11 were we focused on -- I would think that we were focused on 12 nonprofit. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That if they're a nonprofit 15 organization, then what's the deal? Whether they contribute 16 to some children's group or not, they're still -- they don't 17 make any funds. So, unless -- I mean, I can come up with 18 several things that I wouldn't support, but I would think 19 that just nonprofit. Who cares what kind of numbers they are 20 on the end of them, or what they do. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, basically, I don't 22 disagree with you, except then you get off into the social 23 club thing. Is that where we want to go? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure I know what a 25 social club is. 2-9-09 74 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, so you're going -- so 2 we're going to get into specific things that we don't like? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's a category; 4 that's all I'm saying. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to discriminate? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- if you read our 8 rules, this 501 (c)(3) or (6) is just the first step. It 9 says we have to do them case by case. We can pick and choose 10 which ones of those we want, and I think it's a little bit as 11 to what the purpose -- I mean, my thought process is, what's 12 the use or purpose of the agency that wants it? Just because 13 you're a nonprofit and you decide to hold a meeting in 14 Kerrville, I don't know that we should -- you know, if all 15 the money's going to San Antonio, I don't know why we should 16 give you the discounted rate. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I agree with that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We continue to add, you know, 20 every time somebody pops up, just like we have one on here 21 today. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wild Bunch. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's another agenda item, 24 but that's another example of -- you know, how many more are 25 there out there that we're going to have to add to the list, 2-9-09 75 1 I wonder? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe we should deal with 3 that agenda item, this Wild Bunch thing, and find out who 4 they are and see if we personally like them or not. Well, I 5 mean, that's what we're talking about. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See whether they qualify. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to set up -- 9 and I don't think it's today. I think we should open it up 10 to all 501(c) whatever, but I think we need to set up some 11 criteria as to how you qualify so we're not being arbitrary. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may be the route. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think you have to be -- 14 you know, to me, you have to be either a Kerr County or a 15 Kerr County chapter of a bigger organization, you know. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that's probably the 18 way to go. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of what 14's 20 all about, isn't it? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, but I don't think 22 we have any criteria to look at. I mean, I think -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I.R.S. Code would be 24 the criteria. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, that says if it 2-9-09 76 1 even qualifies, but then you have another hurdle, a local 2 criteria as to whether it's a benefit to the local community. 3 'Cause that's what I think we -- we don't have that. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we ought to pass this, 5 come back at the next meeting and come back with a more 6 refined agenda item. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. As I indicated, it may be 8 something we don't want to do this particular meeting, but it 9 lays it out on the table. We may want to take a look at some 10 things and maybe run them by the County Attorney as to 11 whether these are -- are criteria that are justifiable and 12 that are legitimate that we can use as to -- depending on -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just about any organization 14 can be nonprofit. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, take the Bar 17 Association as an example. Absolutely not. You couldn't 18 allow that to happen in our community. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good illustration. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on that? 22 Okay, let's move on to Item 17; consider, discuss, and take 23 appropriate action regarding awarding the mass notification 24 system RFP's. Sheriff, do you have anything for us today on 25 that? 2-9-09 77 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I do, couple things. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Can you do it in 30 seconds or less? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, sorry, won't happen. As 4 you know, we got about six different replies on the RFP's. 5 Going through those with Mr. DelToro, myself, my chief 6 deputy, Commissioner Williams, we at first narrowed them down 7 to two of the best ones, price-wise and benefits-wise. Then 8 we started going through those. One was a little bit better 9 than the other. The second one that we had narrowed it down 10 to, I called -- they're up in Ohio. I called three times, 11 left a message, never got a return call. So, I didn't -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't sound good. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- put too much stock in that. 14 The other one does have a rep in Texas. They answered our 15 response. We had a meeting last Thursday, I guess, 16 Commissioner, the day y'all went to the safety deal. They 17 gave a demonstration. It's very user-friendly. It's 18 probably one of the best systems I've seen. It's called Code 19 Red. It's used in over 100 different cities in Texas 20 already. Very easy. It's a one-time fee, you know, no 21 matter if it's -- each year, no matter if it's this year or 22 20 years; it doesn't change. And it's unlimited minutes. We 23 can use it any way we see fit, whether it's emergency, 24 whether it's calling out, sending pages, e-mails and texts 25 and phone calls to volunteer fire departments about a fire. 2-9-09 78 1 Just, you know, gives you that much more advantage. Or you 2 can have groups set up into it where it notifies the 3 Commissioners of certain things in that group or, you know, 4 my department and certain parts of that group. But you can 5 also draw a line on the map and it will notify everybody 6 inside that line. Now, the way it works is, it tries three 7 times on the phone. It makes three attempts. If an 8 answering machine answers, it does leave a message. If it 9 doesn't answer, it just goes back and tries two more times. 10 But it's a very neat system. It can make up to, if 11 our phone companies can handle it, 1,000 calls a minute on 12 that system, and for mass notification and quick 13 notification, I haven't seen anything that would come close 14 to it. And their price was -- was better than the rest of 15 them. In fact, this morning I had it ready for y'all, and 16 had the contract, and I just wanted Rex to look at it. But 17 on our RFP, it had said total unlimited minutes, whether 18 they're emergency minutes or non-emergency, and when I got 19 back the contract, it listed 50,000 minutes on the 20 non-emergency. So, I called them and they said, "Yeah, 21 that's the way it should be, because if it's total unlimited, 22 your price should have been 10,000 more than what it is." 23 And I said, "Well, your RFP didn't show that difference." 24 So, we will -- they're sending a new contract; it will be the 25 total unlimited at the same price that they had put in the 2-9-09 79 1 RFP. And, Rex, I just need approval from the Court to accept 2 it, pending final approval and wordage in the contract. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is it? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 25,000. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is what it's supposed 6 to be. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Actually, it's $25,250, 8 because the $250 is the one-time dump for the mapping stuff 9 that 911 will dump into it to give us a better map. And the 10 way this thing will work in the end is, it goes off white 11 pages. If your phone is listed or anything in the white 12 pages, it will automatically be in there. Now, there will be 13 a sign-up way of doing it on the internet to sign up, where 14 you can put your cell phone, your e-mail address or any other 15 phones you have, or if you're unlisted, you can put that in 16 there so that it notifies you, if that's what you want. And 17 people that don't have internet access could call our office 18 at that time, and we would help them fill out that paperwork, 19 so it would be online. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's the keeper of the system? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's done by Code Red. The 22 Sheriff's Office dispatch will be the one that keeps it and 23 activates it at any time, and there's only five users -- five 24 people that can have permission to use it, okay? So, 25 everything for mass notification would have to be -- to come 2-9-09 80 1 through the Sheriff's Office, depending on which ones -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way it ought to 3 be. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that does fit, because the 5 Sheriff's -- in our emergency management plan, the Sheriff's 6 Office is the warning point in Annex A of that plan. Anyhow, 7 so I think it's appropriate that it comes through us. But if 8 anybody needs it, then they can explain to us what it is, and 9 -- and we can activate it if we need to. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is really a -- this is 11 really a good system, and I want to make a couple comments 12 and thank some folks. I want to thank Rusty and Clay Barton 13 for their diligence in reviewing all this and -- and sticking 14 with it. Commissioner Oehler has been with me on this now as 15 we watched various demonstrations, each one being a little 16 bit better than the other one. I particularly want to thank 17 Mark -- Mark DelToro of 911. Mark has been a real, real 18 companion in this from the get-go, and not only setting up -- 19 helping us set up these demonstrations, but setting up and 20 helping us with the criteria for the RFP, evaluating the 21 proposals that came back, and helping us critique these 22 proposals, and to know exactly that we're getting what it is 23 we think we're getting. He's been invaluable, and I thank 24 you, Mark, for that. 25 MR. DELTORO: You're welcome. 2-9-09 81 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would echo that, because 2 he's held my hand through it, 'cause I didn't know half of 3 this stuff. But him and Bill Amerine both did fabulous with 4 helping. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a great addition to 6 Kerr County, our ability to notify people in confined areas 7 or broad areas. Depends on what the state of the emergency 8 is, or what the notification is all about. We can notify 9 people up and down the river corridor. We can notify people 10 with respect to wildfires. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or a tiger getting out. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Or a prison break at 13 the Sheriff's -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, don't say that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's just tremendous, and 16 we brought it in on budget, and we've got state-of-the-art 17 technology with unlimited calls. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also, another -- another 19 joint effort to supply a service to the City of Kerrville, 20 who also is in the county. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's actually my point, 23 was I think, you know, that it looks great, and I really want 24 Rusty or somebody -- probably Rusty, 'cause he'll be the 25 point person, to go to City Council and make this same 2-9-09 82 1 statement so they're aware of what we've done, 'cause I think 2 it's important. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The City originally -- when 4 all the meetings and the demonstrations and all that first 5 started, the City was -- was a big part of that. They were 6 in joint meetings over at 911. Everybody -- and then it was 7 right during budget time last year and everything. So, I 8 won't say the City intentionally tried to back out of being 9 joint in this, but I do think that it worked out, you know, 10 just really for the better the way it is. And with the way 11 their contract reads, it would be hard for two entities to 12 have it without having two separate contracts anyhow. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's a much better 14 approach. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And so I think this is a lot 16 better. It would be a single point, and -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, I agree, but 18 I just think it's important that, you know, the City be aware 19 that, one, this service is available to them, and that they 20 -- they also need to set up some criteria as to how, 21 presumably, the Fire Chief or Police Chief get information to 22 you that they want on there. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. Code Red has told me 24 they have several sample policies that their different 25 jurisdictions use on how to activate, when it can, and how 2-9-09 83 1 they work, so I want to get copies of those where we can 2 design our own policy after some of those to make sure we're 3 using it to the fullest extent. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're seeking today is an 5 approval by the Court to accept the proposal from Code Red 6 for the mass notification system, for a cost of 25,250 -- 7 annual cost of $25,250, the ongoing annual cost to be reduced 8 by the 250 because the information is dumped -- or is that a 9 recurring cost? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it could be reduced by 11 the 250, or it may be that we include the 250 again in it 12 each year, because each year, I'm sure, with the new 13 subdivisions, new mapping coming online, we may want to dump 14 that same information into it again to upgrade the maps and 15 all that. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're going to have growth. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're going to have growth. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're going to have to put 19 that information in annually. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right now they get it annually 22 off the white pages stuff, but as far as the mapping, they 23 get it off, I guess, whatever map it -- DelToro could tell 24 you more about that. 25 MR. DELTORO: What we want to include with it is 2-9-09 84 1 our center line road files, segmented road file, and our 2 address point data, because when the user on the -- on the 3 screen -- on the map creates a polygon selecting an area to 4 notify, we want to insure that they're going to actually 5 notify those citizens within that polygon, because the 6 commercially available map data that Code Red is going to use 7 is inadequate for our area. So, we want to give them the 8 best data that we can, and we'll do that annually. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And one of the things, just on 10 the side, you know, they didn't -- one agency down around the 11 coast -- I guess it was Florida that had -- had the 12 hurricane -- one of the hurricanes last year; they not only 13 used it to notify their residents of the impending, you know, 14 hurricane coming. They ended up sending out the message two 15 hours before it hit, you know, one hour before it hit, thirty 16 minutes before it hit. Because what they wanted to do was to 17 be able to pinpoint where they would probably have to do 18 search and rescue for the people that did not evacuate, 19 'cause if they were there 30 minutes before that hurricane 20 hit, they didn't evacuate, so it gave them good locations to 21 search -- to start their search and rescue. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It was tracking the people that 23 answered the phone, actually. 24 MR. HERRERA: That's right, it was doing the ones 25 that answered the phone that, oh, they didn't evacuate, so we 2-9-09 85 1 know where -- and you can print out reports of everybody that 2 it did make contact with, that it didn't make contact with, 3 and however you want to use it. 4 MR. DELTORO: One other -- one other good feature 5 with it is it identifies -- if someone says, "Well, you 6 didn't notify me of that fire," well, you can always put in a 7 prompt on the message, "If you receive this message, press a 8 key." Doesn't matter what key it is. That's going to show 9 up on the report, that, yes, they did hear the message and 10 they responded to it, and you will have that as a record. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or at least you can pull up 12 the report and show that it tried three times, and it didn't 13 -- nobody answered, okay? Or that they did answer. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're seeking approval from the 15 Court to accept the proposal from Code Red, annual cost 16 $25,250, with contract subject to final review and approval 17 of the County Attorney? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Any 22 further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 23 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2-9-09 86 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Why don't we 3 take about a 15-minute -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge -- Judge, before you 5 do that, -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- could we go -- could we 8 go back to the visitors' input or the Commissioners' 9 comments, please? Just real quick? Say yes. Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Caleb, do you have -- 12 do you have an announcement to make to us? Or introduction? 13 MR. CHAPMAN: Yeah. Actually -- well, tomorrow is 14 going to be my last day here in Kerrville, so I'm going to -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See? There still is a God. 16 MR. CHAPMAN: But I want to introduce to y'all -- 17 since we got your attention, this is Sonya Campbell, and 18 she's going to be covering the county from now on. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can she stand up so we can 20 see her? 21 MS. CAMPBELL: No. 22 MR. CHAPMAN: You're in trouble now. 23 MS. CAMPBELL: I'm glad to be here. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 2-9-09 87 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's take about a 15-minute 3 recess. 4 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 7 we might. We were in recess. We have an 11 o'clock timed 8 item, Item 15, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 9 action on request from the Texas Wild Bunch to be added to 10 the nonprofit list for use of the exhibit hall at the Hill 11 Country Youth Exhibit Center. Mr. Steve Napper requested 12 that this be placed on the agenda. I don't see him present. 13 What's the Court's pleasure? Pass it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pass. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And come back? Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, before we pass it, is 17 there a -- does anyone know anything about the group? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the one, I believe, that 19 Ms. Grinstead says was a 501(c)(7). 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: (c)(3). The backup letter says 21 it's a 501(c)(3). 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's right. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just hasn't been added to the 24 list. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I just -- 2-9-09 88 1 JUDGE TINLEY: (c)(3) is definitely includable, I 2 think. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm not familiar with 4 that group. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: They do the -- the art show that 6 benefits the Former Texas Rangers Foundation. That's done 7 out at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, I think in 8 April, if I'm -- April, or maybe -- 9 MS. VAN WINKLE: February. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: February? Is it? Okay. 11 MS. GRINSTEAD: He should be here, too. Must just 12 be running a little bit late. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But they've done that in the last 14 few years, but it has benefited the Former Rangers 15 Foundation. There he is right there. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right on time. 17 MR. NAPPER: Am I up? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You're up, Mr. Napper. You sure 19 are. You are a 501(c)(3); is that correct? 20 MR. NAPPER: That is correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And your proceeds -- the 23 purpose of the organization, and the proceeds from the 24 event -- 25 MR. NAPPER: Well, we've always tied ourselves -- 2-9-09 89 1 we're the oldest organization -- professional arts 2 organization in the state of Texas. We've always tied our 3 shows and everything to another charity within the community, 4 of which we usually share 50 percent of our profits from 5 their quick draws and silent auctions, and our membership 6 pays for the fees up front. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the -- where does the 8 50 percent -- 9 MR. NAPPER: This showing here in Kerrville goes to 10 the Former Texas Ranger Foundation, another 501(c)(3). 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval to be added to the list. Question or discussion on 16 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 22 Mr. Napper. We appreciate it. 23 MR. NAPPER: Thank you. I hope everyone comes out 24 and enjoys the show. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Give us the dates on that. 2-9-09 90 1 MR. NAPPER: February 21st, 22nd. Our quick draw 2 and silent auction starts at 4 o'clock on Saturday afternoon. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. NAPPER: And our local part of the problem is 5 our entertainment. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Quick draw sounds like a 7 shootout. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, so does the "Wild 9 Bunch." 10 MR. NAPPER: I know. I have to tell you that we 11 could have sold our name to the internet many times over. 12 We're always being contacted to give it up. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And part of the problem is 14 the entertainment? 15 MR. NAPPER: That's right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we better go to this 17 deal. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right on the edge. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you part of the 20 entertainment? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not yet. But let's wait 22 till that day. 23 MR. NAPPER: Thank you very much. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I thank you, Mr. Napper. Okay, 2-9-09 91 1 let's move to Item 16; it is 11:05, for that timed item. 2 Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on annual report, 3 membership appointments, and revised bylaws for the Kerr 4 County Historical Commission. Mr. Luther. 5 MR. LUTHER: Judge Tinley, members of the 6 Commission, we're required by statute, as you know, to give 7 you an annual report every year. This year the people over 8 in Austin have kind of doubled up on us. They required not 9 that this report be sent to them, but they did one that was 10 online, computer response sort of thing that I sent you a 11 copy of, and also there is an electronic version of our 12 membership list that I had sent to you earlier that, Judge, 13 you'll need to sign off on just approving our new members. I 14 did prepare a regular narrative sort of report. I titled it 15 an executive summary in hopes that you would read it real 16 fast, but let me just hit the high spots with you here and 17 answer any questions. 18 We're required to tell you about our membership and 19 leadership and activities. As part of looking at that 20 certified local government process, we realized that we had 21 to deal with the titles of our members. As you may recall, 22 everybody who was appointed by the Commissioners Court was 23 considered to be on a board of directors, and we had at one 24 time 84 people on the board of directors, which just doesn't 25 make sense at all. So, what we've done is, in revising our 2-9-09 92 1 bylaws, is do away with that phrase, "board of directors," 2 and we now have appointed members, associate members, 3 emeritus members, and ex-officio members, of which 4 Commissioner Baldwin fills that chair. The roster that I 5 sent to you included 26 members to be appointed or 6 reappointed, and as part of this process, we are elevating 7 some people from essentially the associate -- or what we had 8 called the general membership, so these would be new 9 appointments. That would be Bob Rizzari from up at Mountain 10 Home and Laura Rhodes from down in Cypress Creek, and Lanza 11 Teague, Paul Parker, Terry Real Wallace that you know out on 12 Turtle Creek, Ann Branson with the Trails. And then we 13 would, in changing the name from general to associate, make 14 Robert Love and Vicky Love and Mindy Wendele and Joe Burkett 15 and Brenda Craig associate members, and then Wanda Henderson 16 would become an emeritus member, since she has difficulty 17 getting to our meetings. 18 The leadership hasn't changed this year. The 19 standing committees are not changed this year. And the 20 highlights of our activities this year, I'd just like to just 21 skip over these a little bit. We put into place, as you 22 probably noticed, a new planning/programming budget process. 23 Rather than coming to you and saying, "I need $100 for 24 pencils," what we're doing is coming to you and saying, 25 "We're doing these activities, and we need money in order to 2-9-09 93 1 do these activities." And so that system gives us the basis 2 of our plan of work, which I presented to you last fall in 3 our budgeting process, as well as our budget, and from that 4 we derive an annual report. It's just awkward that the 5 fiscal year for the county and the work that the people in 6 Austin are doing occur months apart, so I'm essentially 7 giving you a report that I've already given you in the past. 8 The new things that have happened since that time, 9 of course, the news today is on our collaborative agreement 10 with Schreiner University, and we're very, very excited about 11 that. And on your desk to be signed is this revision of the 12 bylaws, just to bring us into conformance with the 13 requirements. Establishing these new -- four newer 14 categories of membership, we've added in, at the direction of 15 T.H.C. in Austin, participation or attendance requirements. 16 There are some people that are on our roster I've never seen 17 in the two and a half years that I've been on there, so we've 18 established a requirement for that, and had the executive 19 committee take on the day-to-day operation, rather than a 20 board of directors that was too large to handle. 21 In 2008, we researched, prepared, and submitted 22 applications for the following subject markers, and I'm very 23 pleased to tell you all these have been approved, and we'll 24 be putting them up when they come from the foundry. Apelt 25 Armadillo Farm between Center Point and Comfort. Walter 2-9-09 94 1 Apelt lives in Virginia. It was just serendipity; he stopped 2 in town one day and called me and said, "You know, I'm part 3 of this family. What can we do?" The Old Spanish Trail, 4 which I'm quite excited about. Tom Daniels out at the Bank 5 of the Hills has agreed to sponsor that, and we will have a 6 big dedication party -- don't quote me on that about the 7 party -- when that marker comes. Bill Rector was kind enough 8 to sponsor the old west -- yeah, the Great Western Trail 9 marker, because it runs right through his yard, and he was 10 just stunned to discover that for years and years and years, 11 an annual average of 300,000 cattle moved through his front 12 yard, not to mention horses and other things. On the Starkey 13 cemetery, last year we had it approved as a historic Texas 14 cemetery, and having achieved that, we've made it into -- 15 this year it'll be a -- a historical marker for that. The 16 Masonic Building, Kerrville Times, the Mary Ann Morriss, and 17 the Starkey Cemetery were approved last year. The Times 18 marker has been mounted. The Mary Ann Morriss marker is due 19 to be put up on the 9th of March in Nichols Cemetery. And 20 the Masonic Building, I'm just waiting on Dell Sheftall to 21 give us the green light, and we'll go ahead with that. 22 In addition to that, as you know, we applied for 23 and received permission to relocate three markers. There's 24 the one out here to go to Camp Verde. There was another one 25 at Camp Verde that was in the wrong place, and then the 2-9-09 95 1 courthouse marker, which will come here. We did an exhibit 2 this year in conjunction with the Kerrville Arts and Cultural 3 Center called Indigenous People of Kerr County, and that's 4 hanging out here. And I should tell you that in terms of 5 collaborations, we're working with Schreiner University, the 6 Hill Country Archeological Association, the Arts and Cultural 7 Center, the Former Texas Ranger Foundation, the hills -- Hill 8 Country Trails program, the Cypress Creek Association, and 9 many others in order to further the knowledge of the history 10 of this area. We do this primarily through our web page, and 11 thanks to John Trolinger, we've got a really good web page 12 now, and this year we'd kind of beefed up the history section 13 a little bit to break out different time periods. For 14 example, from 1846 to 1861, and then during the civil war, 15 and after the civil war, that sort of thing. 16 A new -- new member has come on board this year 17 named Cliff Caldwell. Just came on. He's an author, a 18 writer whose project this next year is going to be the lawmen 19 and outlaws of Kerr County, and he's already written a couple 20 books on this, and we've said, "All right, go to it. Here's 21 some material. Here's some starts." I'm going to take him 22 over to the Sheriff's Office and get him introduced, and take 23 him out and introduce him to the Rangers. But already I'm 24 finding out about shootouts and hangings and lynchings and 25 stuff that I'd never known. 2-9-09 96 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute, now. Outlaws 2 of Kerr County. Sheriff's Department. Let's talk about this 3 for a minute. How -- how far back -- or how far forward in 4 history are we going to go? I mean, we're going to stop this 5 in the '50's, aren't we? 6 MR. LUTHER: No, I think we're going to primarily 7 stop it right at the turn of the century. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 MR. LUTHER: He's really focusing on 1870's and 10 1880's. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't tell this man 12 anything about us. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm going to tell him 14 everything about you. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you on this list? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He heard the word "outlaw" and 18 thought he was going to be on it. 19 MR. LUTHER: I might add that counsel has advised 20 us -- not Rex, but Scott Stehling has advised us not to put 21 anything in about people who may have been arrested, but not 22 convicted. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Scott's a good one to be 24 talking to about that. 25 MR. LUTHER: I think I understand. 2-9-09 97 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, there is a -- a deputy 2 sheriff in Kerr County that was killed in the mid-18 -- 3 MR. LUTHER: '80's. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- '80's, something like that, 5 and I got the notice this last month that they're going to 6 put it on the law -- Lost Lawman's Memorial in Austin, and 7 the national one in Washington, put his name. And he was 8 killed over here by Schreiner's Department Store in a 9 shootout. 10 MR. LUTHER: There's been a lot of shootouts in 11 front of Schreiner's. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was a bad store back 13 then. 14 MR. LUTHER: Of course, the big one was, there were 15 five -- well, there were 20-some-odd cowpunchers went into 16 the store and got in an argument, killed a guy in the store, 17 ran out in the street; the local people killed five of them 18 on Water Street. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 20 MR. LUTHER: The rest of them rode up the Guadalupe 21 and hid out in a line shack, and the posse led by Captain 22 Schreiner burned them out and killed some more. And, you 23 know, it was the wild west here. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did the local citizens have 2-9-09 98 1 concealed weapons, by any chance? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They weren't concealed. 3 MR. LUTHER: I understand Mr. Schreiner had guns 4 hidden in cabinets on the second floor right by the windows. 5 He was worried about Bonnie and Clyde, too. Well, anyway, 6 lastly, to conclude, I will tell you that we have nominated 7 three individuals of our commission for awards to be 8 presented in Austin. We don't know if they've got them yet, 9 but we have nominated Dell Sheftall for the award of 10 excellence in community heritage development. He's 11 essentially put a million dollars of his own money into his 12 project on Earl Garrett Street, and is a faithful and good 13 member of our commission. Irene Van Winkle, you may know, we 14 nominated again this year for the award of excellence in 15 media achievement for all the family histories that she's 16 done. And Clarabelle Snodgrass, sort of a lifetime award for 17 achievement in historic -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excellent. 19 MR. LUTHER: History. So, that's the sum of our 20 report, and if I may answer any questions at all, I'll be 21 pleased to. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Dr. Luther? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When I look at your list, I see 24 a -- and this may not make -- may not be anything you can 25 fix, but I see one with a Comfort address and one with a 2-9-09 99 1 Center Point address. And everybody else -- 2 MR. LUTHER: But they live in Kerr County. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no, I'm not talking about 4 those two. My concern is that there are not more. Comfort 5 mailing address and Center Point mailing addresses come 6 basically to up to the Ag Barn, you know, and around there, 7 and there's a -- a lot of -- I just see a lack of 8 representation from the eastern part of the county on your 9 board. And there are a lot of them that may actually live in 10 a home in Kendall County on the Comfort side that own 11 property in Kerr County. I would encourage you to make a 12 real strong effort to include more of the eastern part of the 13 county on your board. 14 MR. LUTHER: We have. That's one of our 15 collaborative groups, the Comfort Historic Preservation 16 Committee. I attend their meetings, and, of course, we have 17 a member of their committee on our commission. We put a lot 18 of work into the Cypress Creek Community area out there. 19 There are some really significant political and cultural 20 problems out there. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's pretty diplomatic. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, pretty diplomatic. 23 MR. LUTHER: But you understand, we were going for 24 a marker out there at this Cypress Community, and they could 25 not -- 2-9-09 100 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Agree. 2 MR. LUTHER: -- agree on that -- on which history 3 you were going to write. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sit here and watch us -- 5 or watch him for a few minutes; you can understand all of 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And you have done -- I 8 applaud the efforts you've made to go into that area, the 9 Camp Verde area and Center Point, but I encourage you to keep 10 going. 11 MR. LUTHER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause there's a lot of -- 13 MR. LUTHER: And we put quite a bit of new history 14 on our web site about the Cypress Creek Community and the -- 15 when it was developed, the fact it was here before Kerrville 16 was here. And -- and, in fact, I have a map that shows at 17 one time all this was going to be Cypress County, not Kerr 18 County, and that was about -- it was in 1854. So, it's quite 19 interesting history out there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're still mad about it. 21 (Laughter.) 22 MR. LUTHER: Yeah. Depending on who you talk to. 23 But they're really serious about this. They're not just 24 funning around. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want us to do? 2-9-09 101 1 Accept? 2 MR. LUTHER: Accept the revisions to the bylaws. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we accept the 4 annual report, membership appointments, and revised bylaws 5 for the Kerr County Historical Commission. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval as indicated. Further question or discussion on the 9 motion? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Discussion. In the future, 11 please get a hard copy to us also, not just an e-mail. 12 Mainly because we need to get it into her files. 13 MR. LUTHER: I understand. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I have the bylaws here, the hard 16 copy. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. I mean, I would go by 18 e-mail. It's not -- Cheryl did not have this. 19 MR. LUTHER: The report I didn't get out until 20 Saturday, so I'm sorry. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 22 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-9-09 102 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 2 MR. LUTHER: Thank you. And, Judge Tinley, if you 3 could just give those signed copies to Jody, I'll take care 4 of getting them to -- to Austin. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. LUTHER: Thank you very much, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 18, if we might; 9 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 10 implementation of the burn ban. I guess the 90 days is 11 coming on and it's time to do this again, right? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we reestablish the 13 burn ban for 90 days. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second, with a comment. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 16 or discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, other counties around us 18 have additional limits on -- especially related to welding, 19 which is a big -- it's probably the biggest cause of fires 20 right now, or people working on fences. Or the one that you 21 were talking -- that you talked about earlier, that was 22 started by a backfire on a generator. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that what it was? I 24 didn't even know what it was. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But can you look and see 2-9-09 103 1 -- I mean, evidently, a lot of counties think that we can 2 really go in here and start putting some pretty stiff 3 restrictions on stuff like that. County Judge in Llano 4 County thinks that they have -- we have -- they have more 5 authority than we do; certainly, Kendall County does. If you 6 can take a look at that? Because at least -- and I don't 7 want to curtail it, 'cause it's critical we get fences built 8 and keep people working and all that, but at the same time, 9 at least notice that they're going to be doing something, or 10 a requirement that they have a person watching while they're 11 welding with water, you know, on-site, or that you weld only 12 from, you know, 8:00 to 10:00 in the morning and that's it. 13 You know, there's got to be something that we can do to help 14 this, 'cause our fire departments are getting run ragged, and 15 it's going to get worse, it looks like. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is something that I've 17 kind of looked into in the last week or so with some problems 18 in my area with people -- there's -- there's some 19 misconception, I think, about how you can legally burn. 20 Outdoor burning, you know, law is fairly stringent, and I 21 don't believe that the public is actually very well educated 22 of what those laws are and the notifications that are 23 required to those fire departments, and also -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And others. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- just to let people know 2-9-09 104 1 where you're going to be doing this, and whether the 2 conditions are right to allow it to happen. Prescribed burns 3 are pretty specific, and I think we've had some of those that 4 have been perceived as prescribed burns lately that actually 5 were not. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fire department consequently 8 runs out when they're -- when somebody reports it, and they 9 get there and then they're told, "Well, it's a prescribed 10 burn," but nobody has called them. And so I'm going to try 11 and do a fairly good job of educating, or trying to educate 12 the people in Precinct 4 a little more about what the rules 13 really are, because, you know, after you -- if you lift the 14 burn ban, that doesn't necessarily mean people can just go 15 set their pasture on fire. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And prescribed burns -- 17 I mean, the -- if you're not during the burn ban period, when 18 the burn ban's lifted, it's a little different. But 19 prescribed burns, under our rules right now, unless you have 20 a burn plan filed with the N.R.C.S., you don't -- that's not 21 a prescribed burn; that's just lighting a fire out in the 22 pasture. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they actually issue 25 the -- 2-9-09 105 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't have a permit, but 2 they have an approval process. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, approval. That's not 4 something that we do. It's -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Joe Franklin does it for us, 7 and we've asked him to. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's actually just a phone 9 call to get -- to -- I believe to get it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's pretty strict right now. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, right now it is. But 12 under normal conditions, it's basically a phone call to get 13 approval. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And once you have that 16 approval and conditions are right, well, then you -- you can 17 go ahead, but you still have to make those notifications. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You got to call. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're not doing it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got to call the Sheriff, 21 T.C.E.Q., and fire department at a minimum. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd just like to make one 25 quick comment. I know in the last week, we've went out to 2-9-09 106 1 four or five different fires. One was a burn ban violation. 2 Most of them are welders or other causes, generator 3 backfiring. And it's getting to the point of being past 4 serious. Some of these are really getting bad. I've 5 instructed my officers that we don't write warnings any more, 6 okay? And it's something that I don't mind the media, you 7 know, putting out, 'cause this is really getting bad on the 8 number of fires we're responding to, and half of them are 9 people burning that shouldn't in any way -- you know, they 10 think, "We got a little bit of dew in the morning. Let's 11 burn." 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And in 30 minutes, we're 14 fighting fires somewhere. The departments are with us, and 15 it's just tying up everything. But it's -- it's past the 16 point of serious stuff to us. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Write more tickets. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We are filing cases every 19 chance we get, because I'm just -- you know, normally we try 20 and work with people, but this has gotten past that point. 21 This is one of those where it's kind of like passing a school 22 bus in a -- you know, in a school zone. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Glad to hear that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We ain't writing warnings. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 2-9-09 107 1 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 7 to Item 19, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 8 to approve use of Center Point Lions Park by Southwest Tandem 9 Rally on Saturday, April the 25th, 2009. Commissioner 10 Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done this in the 12 past, Judge, motorcycle rallies. They headquarter here in 13 one of our two big hotels and tour the countryside, and end 14 up over in the little Center Point Park for lunch and -- and 15 a little rest. These folks are good people. They will put 16 portable toilets in and they'll clean up behind them. And if 17 they don't, I know how to get a hold of them, so I'd move 18 approval. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for -- to 21 approve the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 22 motion? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have a plain 24 question. Why do you need permission for the public to use 25 their property? 2-9-09 108 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a good -- 2 that's a good question. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the reality is, we 5 probably don't. You know, but we've come to the Court on 6 other occasions for -- for event sponsors to use a public 7 facility. I guess the only reason is, if there's damage, if 8 they don't clean it up, if they leave it in a condition less 9 than what they found it, I think the Court needs to be aware 10 of that. We need to know that we have due course of ability 11 to get hold of these people. But basically, you know, I 12 think any of us could give approval for use of a public park 13 if we believe the organization is a good organization. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I look at it as a 15 courtesy to Commissioners Court, and I appreciate that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they're putting porta-pottys 17 out on our property, that would -- that's a little -- that's 18 a little bit different than just meeting over there, you 19 know, informally, to me. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're basically taking over 22 the park. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Essentially, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're giving them permission 25 to use it, and nobody -- basically, nobody else can have it 2-9-09 109 1 on that day. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can do it any way the 3 Court wants it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And on occasions when I've had 6 inquiries made to me about using parks, if -- if it's -- if 7 they want the park set aside for their exclusive use during a 8 period of time, I tell them at that juncture that it's 9 appropriate for them to come to Commissioners Court. But if 10 it's just going to be a group of them down there, and other 11 folks can use the park at their own pleasure and in their own 12 manner, why, really, that's their park, and they ought to be 13 able to use it. But if you got a larger group, like the 14 Commissioner says, it's good to have the accountability, and 15 we appreciate just the courtesy of -- of knowing who's there 16 when you see a large group down there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have a motion? If 18 not, I'll make it. 19 THE CLERK: We have a motion and a second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We do? All right. Further question 21 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 22 signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-9-09 110 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 2 to Item 20, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 3 to extend the contract for investment advisory services with 4 Patterson and Associates for one year. Ms. Hargis? 5 MS. HARGIS: We have our contract in front of you, 6 I think, to extend Patterson and Associates to be our 7 investment adviser for one more year. Mindy and I have 8 discussed this, and we feel that it would be of great value 9 to extend this contract for at least one more year to assist 10 us with our investments. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the cost? 13 MS. HARGIS: She's reduced it to $1,000 a month, 14 and she basically hasn't billed us for $3,000 -- I think it's 15 $3,000 -- 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Four. 17 MS. HARGIS: -- since we did the contract. We've 18 had it a year and a half. So, if she doesn't do very much, 19 she doesn't bill us. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's up to 1,000 a month, 21 but she's billed us historically for -- 22 MS. HARGIS: As she has actually used it, yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: My question to you is the same as it 24 was when we launched this balloon. Is our yield, based on 25 what you know about those yields, enough to give us a net 2-9-09 111 1 return after payment of the cost for that service that's 2 greater than what we had been getting previously? 3 MS. HARGIS: In the marketplace today, it would 4 probably be pretty hard, but I still think we are getting a 5 greater yield, and some advisory services on some new types 6 of products that we -- that even I, myself, am not familiar 7 with, and wouldn't want Mindy to go out and use without us 8 having some extra advice on those products. For instance, 9 the -- the FDIC coverage this year is 250,000, but there's 10 been some discussion as to putting these groups together 11 called CDARs where you can buy five at a time, and who that 12 bank is and so forth and so on. So, there's some vehicles 13 out there that we need help with still that I think would be, 14 you know, fiduciarily responsible for us to have someone that 15 knows and is knowledgeable of those documents before we try 16 to use them. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And they've been products that 18 either give us more attractive yields or additional safety 19 that -- 20 MS. HARGIS: More attractive yields and additional 21 safety, and also it keeps from us running all over town 22 trying to come up with 50 different ways of investing. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2-9-09 112 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We skipped a couple. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 11, to consider, 9 discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint Kenneth Wood 10 and Donald Oehler to serve on ESD Number 1 board for an 11 additional two-year term. Commissioner Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Their -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize for overlooking that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay. I move 15 approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Their terms are up. They're 18 being reappointed. They have agreed to serve. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 20 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 21 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 2-9-09 113 1 Item 12; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 2 appoint Vicki Barron as a member of the Kerr County Child 3 Services Board. Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of that 9 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Commissioner 14 Baldwin, do you want to do executive discussion on Item 10 15 that I've re-agendaed as 10a? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I do. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we go to Section 4 18 of the agenda, then, if we might. Payment of the bills. 19 MS. LAVENDER: Can I do the prescription -- can I 20 do the prescription bid? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You want to come back to 22 that? 23 MS. LAVENDER: Please. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let me make sure -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not 2, is it? 2-9-09 114 1 JUDGE TINLEY: It's Number 1. The agenda item does 2 not allow us to do anything with it, other than to refer them 3 for evaluation. 4 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. Then we'll come back next 5 time, okay. I misunderstood. Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was she ready to make a 8 recommendation? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think she was ready to make 10 a recommendation. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 12 MS. LAVENDER: We'll do it in two weeks. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Section 4. Item 14 1, payment of the bills. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'd like to make a 16 motion. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And what is that, Commissioner? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We pay our bills. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second that motion. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second to pay 21 the bills. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-9-09 115 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 2 amendments. We've been furnished with a budget amendment 3 summary detailing five different budget amendments. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the capital outlay item 5 for Ag Extension? 6 MS. HARGIS: That's the van that you approved. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MS. HARGIS: And the payment is only seven, and the 9 remainder was to go for fuel. That was kind of a combined 10 item, so that's the way we've done it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion that the budget 13 amendments as delineated, Items 1 through 5 on the budget 14 amendment summary, be approved? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 18 budget amendments on the summary as shown for Items 1 through 19 5 be approved. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 25 any late bills? 2-9-09 116 1 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 3 reports for Constable, Precinct 1; Constable, Precinct 4; 4 Constable, Precinct 4, racial profiling report; County Clerk; 5 and Environmental Health. Do I hear a motion that those 6 reports as enumerated be approved as presented? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'll second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second that the 10 named reports be approved as presented. Question or 11 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 12 signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 17 any reports from any of the Commissioners in connection with 18 their liaison or committee assignments as enumerated attached 19 to the agenda? Commissioner Baldwin? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here's a Workforce report 23 for the month of December showing our unemployment rate. You 24 can study it at your leisure. That's it, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 2-9-09 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I've been spending a 2 fair amount of time last week in Austin meeting with our 3 representatives on some subdivision and related issues, and 4 things are progressing. We'll see what happens with the many 5 committee assignments within the House. And the other one, I 6 was thinking about going -- trying to get this in real quick. 7 On the stimulus stuff, if we -- if it's important to get all 8 that out this week, I think we ought to do a special meeting 9 to do those other resolutions. I also think we should have a 10 resolution that says that this money -- our preference is for 11 all this money to go to the state, and the state dole it out, 12 rather than it be earmarked in Austin and Washington. 13 Anyway, those are two ideas, but we ought to do a special 14 meeting if it's that important to get these things out this 15 week. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think appropriations are 17 going to be coming -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, coming down to the 19 state agencies. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- this month. I think they 21 may extend them a little, but that's not a bad idea to have a 22 special meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to have the 24 whole package go out together at one time, and if Friday's 25 the deadline, we need to get it out, even if City Council 2-9-09 118 1 doesn't take any -- sign our other resolutions, you know, 2 after the fact. But we can certainly do it from our 3 standpoint. Anyway, that's just for you, Judge, to think 4 about. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the Court. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thursday or Friday would work. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't do it Wednesday. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thursday, Friday. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Big kitty cat has been 13 returned to its rightful owner with a new facility that I 14 believe exceeds the requirements to be able to house one of 15 these dangerous wild animals. That was a two-week-long 16 thing, and it is finally over, and I hope that everybody 17 is -- maybe not happy, but can be tolerant and respectful of 18 other's rights. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, one other quickie. 22 The Court approved working with AACOG to do some massaging on 23 census tracts, and that work is essentially ready for review. 24 You and I talked this morning about a meeting. They e-mailed 25 me back and said that the time that we talked about 2-9-09 119 1 tentatively is not a good time. But just so the Court knows, 2 we'll be meeting to talk about the census tracts where we 3 have 8,000 more persons that may have to be split, and blah, 4 blah, blah. So, we need to talk about a meeting, Judge, you 5 and I, maybe the following week, at any time Tuesday through 6 Friday the following week. Okay. And I'll get back to -- 7 that will be from the 16th on. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Late morning Tuesday, on the 17th? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Late morning on the 17th? 10 Okay, that'll work. I'll send it back to him. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, what is the topic? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Census tracts being 13 reviewed. You know, we appropriated some funds from AACOG to 14 do that work for us, and he's coming back with a report. We 15 need to go over it with the Judge and so forth and see where 16 that takes us, and -- and in anticipation of the big census. 17 Tuesday. What time, Judge? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: How about 10:30? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a you-two meeting or a 21 Court meeting? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge and me. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But maybe the next one's 25 going to be the Court. 2-9-09 120 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from elected officials 4 or department heads? Okay. It is 11:40, and at this time, 5 we will go out of public or open session to go into executive 6 or closed session. 7 (The open session was closed at 11:40 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 8 is contained in a separate document.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We're back in open or public 11 session. It is 12:07, it looks like. We will be in recess 12 until 1:45. 13 (Recess taken from 12:07 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 16 were in recess until quarter till 2:00, and it is that time 17 now. Gentlemen, do we -- what's the Court's pleasure on a 18 special meeting this week to make the Friday deadline? Right 19 now, we could meet Thursday afternoon at 2:30 or after. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm out of there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Or sometime Friday. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not available Thursday 23 afternoon. We were talking about a 10:30 Friday, and it's 24 now canceled. You and I. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2-9-09 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10:30 Friday sounds good. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Good. Special meeting to do all 3 these? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fine with me. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's before I even check my 7 calendar, but I think I'll be all right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10:30's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If anything's in the way, it 10 can just be postponed. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That will give us a little time to 12 work on the agenda. Make sure you've got Jon's input on the 13 agenda. 14 MS. GRINSTEAD: We're going to word it "including, 15 but not limited to" whatever items. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That sounds like it'll work. 17 Okay with Rex? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And stimulus matters. 19 MS. GRINSTEAD: Exactly. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Including, but not limited to. 21 MS. GRINSTEAD: But for certain, dam repair and 22 then the Hill Country Exhibit Center. Anything else you can 23 think of right now? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The general one, which I think 25 is probably going to happen. 2-9-09 122 1 MS. GRINSTEAD: What? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll tell you. 3 MS. GRINSTEAD: Oh, later? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. It's a general one, but 5 it's that the -- the funding should be -- go through the 6 states. 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a personal opinion that I 9 have. Court may not agree with that one. As opposed to 10 having earmarks in Washington, I want them to flow through 11 TexDOT and however else they get down to us. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the way they've designed 13 them, anyway. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except they have all these 15 things like refurbish this building in this town, and 16 refurbish this thing in this city, and -- 17 MS. GRINSTEAD: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we got that? Okay. It 19 is 1:51, and we will go out of public or open session -- 20 MS. HYDE: Do you want to keep it open, and then if 21 I have to name them, put it into executive? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah. Yeah. 24 MS. HYDE: I think that maybe -- if he's here, then 25 we're kind of going to be on the same page on people. 2-9-09 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's scratch the -- we're 2 still in open or public session, and we're dealing with 3 Agenda Item Number 21; consider, discuss, and take 4 appropriate action on Kerr County FMLA policy. 5 MS. HYDE: We've had some problems with FMLA in the 6 last month. But, as y'all are well aware, I talked to you 7 about the law changing as of January 15th. One thing that 8 the Sheriff and I have discussed, and I think he has a valid 9 point, in this green book, since we haven't updated it, it 10 says if an employee has exhausted all accrued sick leave, he 11 or she will be placed on family or medical leave under this 12 policy if the following situations exist. So, it's leaving 13 it open where people out there think that they do not have to 14 go out on FMLA, and that we don't have the right to tell them 15 that, "Here, we need you to go get certified from the 16 doctor." The law has changed. The law used to be 30 pages. 17 Here's the new law. Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would the government 19 want to tell anyone how to conduct their own business, or how 20 to -- what leave to take -- you know, to take that choice 21 away from them? 22 MS. HYDE: Because it used to be -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would we want to do 24 that? 25 MS. HYDE: You want a personal -- 2-9-09 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How are we helping -- 2 MS. HYDE: -- opinion? Or -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How are we helping an 4 employee? 5 MS. HYDE: Because the employee is protected. That 6 job is protected, and that job continues to be protected, 7 even though the employee comes back after 12 weeks of leave. 8 You can't do anything, no retribution, retaliation to that 9 employee for that medical condition. So, let's just take, 10 for example, somebody has cancer. An hourly employee has 11 cancer, and -- and they go out and they have their 12 weeks 12 where they have surgery and they start their chemo, okay? 13 It's an ongoing process. They might be in remission, but 14 they come back to work. Seven, eight months later, guess 15 what? It comes back. We can't fire them, by law. We can't 16 get rid of them because they've got cancer. Companies did 17 that. Companies took advantage of it. People that got 18 pregnant, if you went out and had a baby and you were going 19 to be gone for six or eight weeks 'cause you have a 20 hysterectomy or whatever it is when you have the baby -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cesarean. 22 MS. HYDE: Cesarean, thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's close. 24 MS. HYDE: Sorry. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That may solve it all. 2-9-09 125 1 MS. HYDE: You know, people didn't come back as 2 quickly as employers wanted, so they got rid of them. Older 3 people that started having health problems, guess what? It 4 was costing them on their insurance. They got rid of them. 5 So, the Legislature came down and said, "You know what? We 6 ought to protect employees." But like a lot of times, the 7 law comes out, and -- and what they meant to do and what it 8 ended up doing was a little bit different. So, they've had 9 amendments and they've had changes. This new one is huge and 10 it's comprehensive, and it is not on the employer's side. It 11 is on the employee's side, big time. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, today, if I get sick, 13 then I have a choice whether I can -- I want to take my sick 14 leave, I want to take vacation or whatever it is that's 15 available to me. I have that choice. And you want to go -- 16 or the new law that we have not gone to yet -- I'm just 17 trying to follow what you're saying. 18 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we haven't gone to yet, 20 says that if I get sick, then I automatically -- the 21 government -- the -- Kerr County tells me, "You will take 22 FMLA beginning day one"? 23 MS. HYDE: Sort of, kind of. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, why -- why would Kerr 25 County want to do that? 2-9-09 126 1 MS. HYDE: What it says -- what it says is that 2 it's the employer's responsibility. If you don't -- first 3 off, as an elected official, no offense, -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. HYDE: -- you don't do -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wash cars out at Road and 7 Bridge. 8 MS. HYDE: Right. But if you're a regular employee 9 and you come up with cancer, you feel like it's nobody's -- 10 nobody's business, number one. It's your -- it's you. It's 11 personal. And I've got all this sick leave that I've got 12 accrued. Why can't I use it? That's the argument. Because 13 if you don't come under FMLA, and Road and Bridge wants to 14 fire you, they can fire you. And then you can come back as 15 an employee and say, "They fired me 'cause I've got cancer," 16 or, "They fired me because I had to have a cesarean," or -- 17 well, not you, but -- if you were a female. Or whatever. 18 Because you're not protected. You're not protected under the 19 Family Medical Leave Act. And as an employer, now the law 20 has gotten more stringent. If we think, if they may, those 21 words -- help me here, County Attorney -- those put us on the 22 -- those put us on, and the employers must. 23 Now, that one, "must" and "shall" are the two words 24 that you guys have corrected me on multiple, multiple times 25 to give leeway. There is no "maybes" any more. It's, "You 2-9-09 127 1 will, you shall, you must." But on the employee side, they 2 "may." 3 MR. EMERSON: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was 4 we shall forward the proper documentation for administration 5 of the FMLA. 6 MS. HYDE: You're darn tootin'. 7 MR. EMERSON: Doesn't say the employee shall take 8 FMLA, but we have a duty to provide it. If they choose not 9 to take it, they end up having -- under your scenario, they 10 end up having excessive absences, and we give them the 11 paperwork again and they still keep having absences, we can 12 cut them loose. 13 MS. HYDE: But the law -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But -- 15 MR. EMERSON: By choice, though. 16 MS. HYDE: No, the law says now, Rex, that they 17 have -- we have to -- we have to put them on FMLA. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 19 MS. HYDE: Even if they don't request it, we have 20 to put down the leave is under FMLA if it's over four days. 21 MR. EMERSON: Show me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't imagine that. 23 MS. HYDE: Must an employee specifically request 24 FMLA leave? No, but employees are required to provide 25 information, yada, yada, yada. The employer, however -- it's 2-9-09 128 1 up to the employer to provide the information. And under 2 FMLA, an employee is not required to provide a diagnosis. If 3 the employer questions a medical, we -- it's still -- it's 4 all saying we have to send them out. 5 MR. EMERSON: So far, we've got to give them the 6 information; we don't have to put them on there. 7 MS. HYDE: Okay. 8 MR. EMERSON: Unless you have something different 9 that's popped up. 10 MS. HYDE: Must an employee specifically request 11 FMLA leave? 12 MR. EMERSON: They don't have to ask for it. We 13 have to give it to them. Doesn't mean they have to fill it 14 out and give it back and be on FMLA, but they're subject to 15 the standard personnel policy without the protection of that 16 FMLA if they choose to do that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that's my choice, 18 though, of taking -- risking getting fired for being gone too 19 long and all that. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but if you have sick 21 leave available, okay, and you're using your sick leave 22 legitimately, you're not falsifying your own sick leave, 23 you're not even risking being fired, because you've earned 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 2-9-09 129 1 MR. EMERSON: Well, to an extent. Because the -- 2 the technicality that comes in there, guys, is FMLA requires 3 you to preserve the position. 4 MS. HYDE: That's right. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 6 MR. EMERSON: If you take sick leave and you're out 7 too long, they may fill your critical position, and you may 8 come back as the dog washer instead of the car washer. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, hell, we can't have 10 that, can we? 11 MS. HYDE: But it also says in the Wolverine vs. 12 World Trade that the employer -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Didn't give them notice. 14 MS. HYDE: No, the employer did give them notice. 15 What they did is, they took their 30 weeks of unpaid leave, 16 where they used paid leave time, and then they turned around 17 and said, "Now I want 12 more weeks of FMLA," and the 18 employer said, "No, you can't have it." 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what happened? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Supreme Court upheld. 21 MS. HYDE: Supreme Court upheld. The employer did 22 not. They had already taken it. Because they knew -- as an 23 employer, Wolverine knew that that person was out, and they 24 -- they had to designate it as FMLA, so they had already had 25 their 30 weeks, and it was never the intent for them to say 2-9-09 130 1 that you can have a year off. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like that case says 3 even if you don't elect to take FMLA, constructively, you're 4 on FMLA. 5 MS. HYDE: That's right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And can't use up whatever other 7 availability you got; sick time, vacation time, comp time, 8 good time, whatever time, and then later on ask for more, for 9 12 weeks on top. 10 MS. HYDE: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what it sounds to me like 12 that case says. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you use your leave and 14 your accrued time off or whatever on the tail end of FMLA? 15 MS. HYDE: Well, that's why you have this from TAC. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You went the opposite scenario. 17 Take FMLA at the end -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you wanted to go without a 19 paycheck for 12 weeks. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: One at a time. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you use half of what you 22 had in the -- on the end of the 12 weeks? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you wanted to go without a 24 paycheck for the 12 weeks you're on FMLA, and then come back 25 on a paycheck at the end, yes. 2-9-09 131 1 MS. HYDE: And it's up to the employer. The 2 employer can -- the employer can determine whether or not 3 it's paid or unpaid leave. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it also seems like -- and 5 I'm -- if I follow all this that's been said so far, that if 6 we have to put them on FMLA after four days, then we're also 7 saying that they're not getting paid, then. 8 MS. HYDE: No. If we say that they can be paid, 9 then they can use all their time. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if they're going to 11 be paid, then they're not on FMLA. 12 MS. HYDE: Yeah, they are. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The whole bottom line 14 that I see in Eva's and my discussion, 'cause this did 15 involve two of my employees, is where we come to is, do they 16 have to be on FMLA at the same time they're taking their sick 17 or vacation? And Eva says yes, they do, if it's a qualifying 18 illness. And I say no, they don't. My -- my point in this 19 is, if you've got a good employee that hasn't ever abused his 20 sick leave, okay, and he's got a pile of sick leave built up 21 over here, and you got an employee that every time he gets a 22 day of sick leave, he's used it, now both of those employees 23 get sick, okay? This one's going to get 12 weeks of FMLA 24 still, even though he hasn't used -- doesn't have any sick 25 leave, okay? Because he's guaranteed that 12 weeks by the 2-9-09 132 1 federal government. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This one's going to get that 4 12 weeks; at the same time, his sick leave is being burned 5 up. Because he's been a good -- you know, he's still getting 6 paid during that same 12 weeks. 7 MS. HYDE: Right. The other one's not. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But his time's less, 'cause 9 he -- this one's still going to be an employee 12 weeks 10 longer than this one is, in essence, 'cause this one's having 11 to use sick leave and his FMLA at the same time. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At the same time. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the issue I have with that 14 scenario is, first off -- three points. Number one, in the 15 current Kerr County policy, okay, what is written under 9.06, 16 Family and Medical Leave, if an employee has exhausted all 17 accrued leave, he or she will be placed on Family Medical 18 Leave. That's what's in the county policy now. If you want 19 to change it, fine, change it. But I'm not going to force my 20 employees to go on FMLA unless they've used up all their sick 21 leave, 'cause that's what the county policy says. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we have that choice? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Except -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if the federal government 2-9-09 133 1 changes the law, that trumps our policy. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Under -- and this is part 3 of the facts under FMLA. It doesn't -- it says under certain 4 conditions, employees or employers may choose to 5 substitute -- run concurrently, they mean -- accrued paid 6 leave, such as sick or vacation, to cover some or all of the 7 FMLA leave. An employee's ability to substitute accrued paid 8 leave is determined by the terms and conditions of the 9 employer's normal leave policy. That's your normal leave 10 policy right now. So, I don't think under that, we can force 11 them to be on both. And, two, the last deal, when you go 12 through the doctor's part the doctor has to fill out for the 13 employee, you know, to get on it, on the second page, it 14 says -- and this is where my employee had a big problem, is 15 it says, "Instructions to the health care provider: The 16 employee listed above has requested leave" under that. This 17 employee hadn't requested it, because she had sick leave. 18 She had vacation. She wasn't wanting FMLA, but she's being 19 told she had to be on it. If it was qualifying. My deal is, 20 if the County's policy is -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait. But on that point, did 22 the employee understand that if her job was terminated 23 because she wasn't showing up for office, that she had no 24 recourse, whereas on FMLA, she would? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the difference is -- 2-9-09 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the difference. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If the employee's got sick 3 leave and vacation, and this isn't an employee that's out all 4 the time for being sick, okay? How can I fire them just 5 'cause they're out sick now, when they've earned sick leave 6 and vacation? If I did that as a department head, elected 7 official, boss, whoever, then I've opened this county up for 8 a lawsuit, because I've wrongfully terminated someone. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It depends on -- 10 MS. HYDE: I'm going to agree to disagree to a 11 certain point, because if you have an employee that's going 12 to be out two or three months, whether they've earned it or 13 not, there are instances where people will terminate and will 14 separate that employee for excessive absenteeism. In fact, 15 that's one of the things we brought to the Court, because 16 some people didn't have an understanding on how to hold 17 people accountable to come to work. Just because you have 18 sick time doesn't mean that you can use it willy-nilly how 19 you want to. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. That's where 21 your policy on how you use your sick leave -- you know, like 22 mine is if you're out more than three days, you got to have a 23 doctor's excuse. You know, go to the doctor, get treated. 24 That's how you control somebody from abusing sick leave. 25 It's not by saying, "Okay, you have to be on FMLA, sick 2-9-09 135 1 leave, vacation all at one time." I don't think that's the 2 intent. I think -- 3 MS. HYDE: Well, an employee -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the County does, and 5 we should look at the policy, and go back to where, instead 6 of having a cap on sick leave -- and as an employer, I'll say 7 I think the County needs to have a cap on sick leave. Right 8 now, I've got guys with thousands of hours, and if you -- you 9 do that, you could extend -- you know, extend that person's 10 employment forever, just about, and not be able to control 11 it. Not be able to replace it. 12 MS. HYDE: But at the end of 12 weeks, you can 13 still make that determination. If they have thousands and 14 thousands of hours, we've only allowed them the 12 weeks 15 which falls under FMLA, and they still have thousands of 16 hours, where if you determine you want to keep them for a 17 year, that's your determination. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that employee -- now, on 19 this -- 20 MS. HYDE: Let me -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that employee that doesn't 22 have thousands of hours can burn it up. You're -- you got to 23 give him the same employment. 24 MS. HYDE: No, you don't. No, you do not. If an 25 employee is absent from work or informs you that they're 2-9-09 136 1 going to be missing work, the supervisor should consider the 2 reason for the absence and proceed accordingly. There is 3 FMLA, and FMLA paperwork may begin -- Rex, underline the 4 "may" -- if absence is foreseeable. Remember, an employee 5 does not have to formally ask for leave under the FMLA and 6 receive FMLA benefits. Here's the kicker. Employers are 7 required to make that determination and designate the leave 8 accordingly, and we only have two days. After we find out 9 that someone's out, we have two days. That's it. To me, 10 that's completely black and white. Employers are required to 11 make that determination and designate the leave accordingly. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it still goes back to if 13 the employee requests it. If they've got sick leave and they 14 got vacation time available, by the current county policy, 15 they don't have to request that FMLA. The form the doctors 16 have to fill out, everything else, says they request it. "If 17 requested by the employee." Now, in your policy that you 18 adopt for the County as we're redoing the policy manual, it's 19 open. If we state in this county policy that if you go on 20 FMLA or if you, you know, have one of the major illnesses 21 that qualify for FMLA, then your vacation and your sick leave 22 will run at the same time for any that you have built up, 23 you're fine. But with the way the county policy is right 24 now, in that, I don't think you can force somebody to go on 25 FMLA until after their sick leave's burnt up. 2-9-09 137 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask a 2 question. Take an employee that uses up all of his sick 3 leave, okay? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've used all that and 6 now they say, okay, now I want to go on FMLA. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it our option that -- to 9 allow that? Or -- or can we deny that? 10 MS. HYDE: If they come to us after the fact and 11 they say that they have a serious health condition, then, 12 yeah, we can go back and we can retro the FMLA. But also, in 13 the Q and A, it tells -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You didn't finish up. But? 15 MS. HYDE: But. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it our option to deny 17 it? 18 MS. HYDE: We can deny it, but if we deny it and 19 it's a serious medical condition, the only thing that we can 20 deny is -- is that they don't start until the day that they 21 turn it in. So, the -- the five or ten days, whatever, that 22 they were out, they could have been fired, and there's 23 nothing that they can do about it. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, in the Wolverine -- 25 Ragsdale vs. Wolverine Supreme Court case, what they're 2-9-09 138 1 actually guaranteed -- this gal was on sick leave for -- or 2 out for 30 weeks. Then after the 30 weeks, she came back and 3 wanted 12 more weeks of FMLA, and the company argued, "No, 4 you've been out 30 weeks; we consider part of that 30 weeks 5 you were out as your FMLA." And the court -- Supreme Court 6 said yes. It doesn't fit exactly, 'cause the company didn't 7 give her notice, and they didn't do this or that. But they 8 said what the bottom line and the purpose of FMLA was is to 9 guarantee an employee 12 weeks of employment after they 10 became ill. Because some companies don't offer sick leave. 11 Some companies don't offer vacation. Some are just five 12 days. This guaranteed those people, instead of losing their 13 job immediately, because now they're ill, it guaranteed them 14 12 weeks of employment. Unpaid, you know, but 12 weeks of 15 employment. But the way it is, if you got a guy that doesn't 16 use up his sick leave, and he gets sick, he ought to be able 17 to use up his sick leave, then go on FMLA. That way it's 18 fair to the other employee who really -- that did use up his 19 sick leave, and now all of a sudden, he's got to go on FMLA. 20 And what Eva tried to argue with me was, well, at the end, 21 it's your choice after the 12 weeks, whether I want to keep 22 either one of those employees. 23 MS. HYDE: You can't -- no. No, you can't fire 24 them. What I said was you can't fire him for that illness 25 anyway. 2-9-09 139 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know, for that -- during 2 that 12 weeks. 3 MS. HYDE: There's at least 180 days you can't do 4 anything, 'cause that's retribution. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But after that -- after that 6 12 weeks, you can. Okay, my deal is, you got to make it 7 fair. You got to make it fair to every single employee in 8 the way you do it. And either we have a policy that says 9 after you use up your sick leave and after you use up your 10 vacation, then you'll go on FMLA, if it's a qualifying 11 illness or whatever, for the 12 weeks, or we have a policy 12 that says as soon as you become sick, after four days, and we 13 know it's an FMLA, you go on FMLA, period, regardless of how 14 much sick leave and vacation you have left. One of those two 15 is where the County's got to -- to decide where we're going 16 to go. And I think, being fair to the employees, let them 17 use what they have, then put them on the 12 weeks. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, what are -- what are our 19 real options here? 20 MS. HYDE: Well -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Is one of them, for example, to 22 change the existing personnel policy? 23 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: To provide that when a person has a 25 condition that qualifies under the Family Medical Leave Act 2-9-09 140 1 and is absent from work, or attempts to accrue against sick 2 leave or vacation or other accrued time, that it 3 automatically shall be deemed to be -- regardless of what 4 else happens, to commence FMLA? 5 MS. HYDE: If it's a serious medical condition. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, if it qualifies. 7 MS. HYDE: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: As a -- as a condition under the 9 Family Medical Leave Act? 10 MS. HYDE: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one option, right? 12 MS. HYDE: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The other would be to leave 14 the policy like it is, in which case -- 15 MS. HYDE: Then if we do that, then I'm going to 16 request that Rex and I go to another FMLA seminar, because I 17 do believe sincerely that we'll be not following federal law. 18 If you look at those packets that came from TAC, TCDRS, and 19 the government, everywhere in there, the employee doesn't 20 have to ask. It's still the employer's responsibility, if we 21 think, for us to do. And it also says absent extenuating 22 circumstances, a regulation requires an employer to notify an 23 employee of whether or not the employee's eligible to take 24 FMLA leave, and if not, at least one reason why they're 25 ineligible, within five business days of the employee 2-9-09 141 1 requesting leave or the employer learning that an employee's 2 leave may be for an FMLA-qualifying reason. They're putting 3 all of this on the employer. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. HYDE: So, even if we think it could be, we've 6 got to ask them. 'Cause I'm not a doctor. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The whole deal under the fact 8 sheet, and that's where I would differ with her, is under 9 that interpretation -- under the fact sheet for FMLA, it all 10 comes down to what the county policy is. Because, again, it 11 states very plain, "Under certain conditions, employees or 12 employers may choose to substitute, run concurrently" -- run 13 them both at the same time -- "accrued paid leave, such as 14 sick or vacation, to cover some or all of the FMLA leave. An 15 employee's ability to substitute accrued paid leave is 16 determined by the terms and conditions of the employer's 17 normal leave policy." And that's where we're at. It's 18 whatever the County has as their policy on whether they 19 substitute it, or whether it -- it, you know, is one after 20 the other, one before the other, or at the same time. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's what this 22 fifth slide says on this Power Point here. Fifth slide. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fifth slide? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifth slide. Reads, 25 "Employers are allowed to substitute paid leave for unpaid 2-9-09 142 1 leave based on FMLA election." Your policy dictates whether 2 you pay. The law does not require you to pay. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 4 MS. HYDE: That's why they say it can be paid or 5 unpaid leave. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not -- 7 MS. HYDE: But when I discussed this once before -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The policy of paying under 9 FMLA, you can do that. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if it's paid, that means 11 you're using up sick leave, using up vacation. That's 12 paying -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leave time at the same 14 time. 15 (Several people talking at the same time; court reporter interrupted.) 16 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Not necessarily. We can establish a 18 policy that FMLA is paid. We could opt to do that. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably could, yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If we don't opt to do that and the 22 employee wants to be paid while in FMLA status, they've 23 either got to take accrued sick leave, comp time, vacation 24 time, whatever they've got accrued. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 2-9-09 143 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If they want to get paid. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Otherwise, they got 12 weeks unpaid. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's a qualifying illness. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 7 MS. HYDE: If you go on down to Page 14 on those 8 Power Point slides, -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 10 MS. HYDE: -- when it talks about supervisor 11 responsibilities, it's the last slide. It is the employer's 12 responsibility to designate the leave. Although they give 13 the employees the right to ask -- to request, it's still the 14 employer's responsibility to insure that if we think, we 15 better ask the right questions. If you go to Page 16, it 16 tells you the top ten mistakes that employers make, and one 17 of the big ones in the notes that we have, employers don't -- 18 I mean, I'm not a doctor. I don't know if a hysterectomy is 19 a serious health condition or not, but if that doctor tells 20 me it is, then that employee is protected. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I don't -- I don't see 22 the problem. If -- if we automatically, after four days, 23 whatever, put them on FMLA, and then it's up to the employee; 24 if they have sick leave, they can continue to get paid during 25 that period. If they don't have sick leave -- 2-9-09 144 1 MS. HYDE: They're still covered, but -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's a job there. 3 MS. HYDE: The rules have changed. See, before, 4 when they went on FMLA with unpaid leave, we had to pay all 5 their -- their medical. The law has relaxed a little bit; we 6 don't have to pay all their medical. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can get sick, and all of 8 a sudden, our medical doesn't cover them? 9 MS. HYDE: They would have to pay. They would have 10 to pay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're protecting the 12 employee? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I think they should 14 be able to use all their sick and their vacation before 15 they're forced to go on FMLA. And I think, by county policy, 16 that's what you as Commissioners would set, is whether you're 17 going to allow them to use their sick and vacation -- accrued 18 sick and vacation prior to being designated as FMLA leave, or 19 at the same time. 'Cause I think it's a fairness issue to 20 different -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, at the same time, you 22 know, makes more sense. Otherwise, they're not going to have 23 a paycheck. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It already -- FMLA is already 25 concurrent with worker's comp. If you go on worker's comp, 2-9-09 145 1 you're on FMLA. I don't have to talk to them, don't have to 2 ask them. They're on it, period. That's a -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we establish a policy -- 4 MS. HYDE: Y'all are being designated that if I 5 know about it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we establish a policy 7 that -- that paid sick leave, or leave -- paid leave time and 8 FMLA run concurrently, right? When they run out of sick 9 time, they're still within the 12-week max. 10 MS. HYDE: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: FMLA. 12 MS. HYDE: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's wrong with that 14 policy? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nothing wrong with that 16 policy, if that's the policy that Commissioners want to 17 adopt. But if they -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. So, 19 what's wrong with it? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only -- the only issue is, 21 going back to an employee that doesn't have hardly any sick 22 leave built up, okay? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, but if they don't 24 have it, they don't have it. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, you know, as far as 2-9-09 146 1 saying an employee -- say he's got 12 weeks, okay? An 2 employee that does have a lot of sick or vacation built up, 3 now he's going to get to use his sick -- and maybe it's 12 4 weeks of vacation. He's going to get to use it. But right 5 after he finishes using what he's earned as a benefit to the 6 employee, now he's going to lose his job. Where the other 7 employee, because it's a federal benefit, he's given -- he's 8 keeping his for an extra 12 weeks longer than what he had 9 sick and vacation built up for. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can't imagine an employee 11 not taking an option of using their -- using their sick and 12 accrued time -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: First. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- to run concurrent with a 15 policy that will salvage their job for 12 full weeks. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, what they're -- what 17 they're doing -- what I'm saying to you, Bruce, is I've 18 got -- say I've got a lot -- I got six months of sick leave 19 and eight months of vacation, whatever. I'm using -- okay, I 20 go out sick. I want to use my six -- six months of sick 21 leave and my eight months of vacation, 'cause I'm still 22 getting paid, all right? At the end of using all of those, I 23 still can't come back, but I'm not sure, you know, how long 24 it's going to be. Then I want my FMLA. I'm not getting 25 paid. 2-9-09 147 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's too long. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It may be, but then I'm not 3 getting paid, but I've still got my job guaranteed for 12 4 more weeks. So, it's -- it's just depending on how you want 5 to do it. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Rex? 7 MR. EMERSON: As an employer, okay, who's been in 8 private industry, who's worked for other companies, as 9 applied to this scenario, what would you as a court want as 10 managers if Jody went out sick, she stayed out sick for four 11 months with an illness? She's getting her paid leave. You 12 guys are running without any administrative support. And 13 then she says, "I want FMLA," and she's out for another three 14 or four months. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's my point. 16 MR. EMERSON: That's what you've got to look at. 17 You have critical employees in this county that you can't 18 afford to go without for "X" amount of time. You have to 19 protect their positions. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why they need to be on 21 their -- if they want a paycheck, they're on -- they should 22 be on FMLA, but they should be, you know, using sick leave. 23 If they don't have sick leave, they don't get a paycheck. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Otherwise, they're not being 25 paid. They can't survive that long without being paid. I 2-9-09 148 1 don't -- most people can't. 2 MR. EMERSON: The clear intent of FMLA, as Rusty 3 said it when he was standing up there, is to guarantee 4 somebody their job for 12 weeks. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If they incur -- 8 MR. EMERSON: That's it, bottom line. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If they incur a serious illness, -- 10 MR. EMERSON: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they can't just be pitched on the 12 street because they are ill. Which puts their -- a lot of 13 times, puts their health care in jeopardy -- I mean their 14 health care benefits in jeopardy. 15 MR. EMERSON: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: But it gives them 12 weeks to get 17 the boat in order, and if they have the time accrued, -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To get paid for it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they can get paid. 20 MR. EMERSON: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: But if not, they still are locked in 22 for a period of 12 weeks. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're still on FMLA. 24 Even if they're getting paid, they're still on FMLA. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing I would ask, so we 2-9-09 149 1 don't have a problem with employees, is under 9.06, Family 2 Medical Leave, where you state in the current policy, if an 3 employee has exhausted all accrued sick leave, he or she will 4 be placed on family medical leave. That needs to be changed, 5 and it needs to be -- because that's the issue I'm having. 6 My employees are saying I haven't exhausted it all; the 7 County can't force me to go on it. My form I got to give to 8 the doctor says I'm requesting it. I'm not requesting it. 9 You know, and this is what your policy -- you can't force me 10 to go on it. And then I have to look at them and say, "Well, 11 that's what the policy says right now." And that's where we 12 have a difference. All I'm asking is, one way or another, 13 let's straighten out the county policy immediately. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what we've been trying 15 to do for the last two months. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, this is -- this has been 17 in here for years. But if we can do something -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're trying to redo it; been 19 working on it all fall trying to get a new policy. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you, you know, just 21 think about it realistically as an employer, just like what 22 Rex is saying. How long can you hold a position open for 23 somebody? I mean, how long should you -- you still have to 24 hire somebody to do the work when that person's out. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 2-9-09 150 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, this can't go on 2 forever. And I -- I can't see extending it. It would be our 3 choice; if we want to, we could. Probably, we could hire 4 that person back sometime in the future, when they finally 5 get off of everything. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the employee -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they run concurrently, 8 then this issue is -- is moot, because if they have more paid 9 sick leave time coming than 12 weeks, they're extended. If 10 they have less, they're protected. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if they have more -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they run out of benefits, 14 they still -- their job is safe for them for that 12-week 15 period. 16 MS. HYDE: And the end of the 12 weeks, you can 17 make a determination that you're not going to get rid of 18 them, anyway. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 MS. HYDE: We had an employee -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't have to get rid of 22 them. 23 MS. HYDE: We had an employee that ran out. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in order to right this ship at 25 this particular point in time, if we're going to go that 2-9-09 151 1 direction, we merely, in lieu of that particular provision in 2 the policy manual, for right now, until we rewrite the 3 policy, provide that upon the occurrence of -- of an event 4 under the Family Medical Leave Act, which qualifies an 5 employee to be eligible under that act, the employee shall 6 immediately be placed on family medical leave status, period. 7 And then if, in addition, they want to take sick leave, 8 vacation, whatever, that's covered under other provisions. 9 They can do that. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or that this will run at the 11 same time as their sick leave or vacation. If they just -- 12 that will straighten it out and solve all my problems. 13 MS. HYDE: Here is the proposed FMLA policy 14 revision. Now, I talked to Rex about it. I've gone online. 15 This is part of what you already have in your book, but the 16 addition is the military, which is huge, because they have 17 two types of entitlements. One is qualifying Exhibit C 18 leave, and that's for 12 weeks. Then you also have the 19 caregiver leave, which is up to 26 weeks. I went out and 20 talked to Harris County and looked at them, because they have 21 a lawyer that works for H.R., and so their lawyers have 22 already gone through it, and this is almost verbatim with 23 theirs. And what it does state in there, there are -- 24 there's protections. It tells you what type of treatments 25 there are, 'cause the treatments changed. What's a 2-9-09 152 1 qualifying event? What's the entitlement to leave? And then 2 it gets to what Rusty and I have been discussing, vacation 3 and sick leave, Page 75. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 75? 5 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. Employees on continuous FMLA 6 must exhaust all available vacation and sick leave before 7 taking unpaid FMLA leave. For intermittent FMLA -- I told 8 you; it was what we were discussing -- employees must exhaust 9 all vacation and sick leave before taking unpaid FMLA leave. 10 Sick leave is only applicable if the qualifying event is the 11 employee's own serious health condition, or if the employee 12 uses sick leave for the serious health condition of a spouse, 13 parent, or child, they can use their comp time as well, but 14 that is separate. And then on worker's compensation, that -- 15 that is part of worker's compensation. It is. Immediately 16 upon going on worker's compensation, they are on FMLA, 17 whether anyone asks it, requests it. It doesn't matter if 18 it's just getting spit in the face; you're out for seven 19 days. Once you go to worker's comp, it's FMLA. The first 20 seven days, we can force them to take the paid leave, because 21 they're not being paid for those first seven days. And when 22 they go out on worker's comp, then it goes into all of this. 23 You know, if they fraudulently do FMLA, guess what? We can 24 fire them. If they have a second job while they're out on 25 FMLA, guess what? We can fire them. 2-9-09 153 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just have an issue with the 2 way it's worded on Page 75. If you look at it, it -- to me, 3 it's confusing. It's substitution of paid leave for unpaid 4 leave. It should run, period. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are you on? 7 MS. HYDE: We talked about the word "substitution." 8 It is a confusing word. But the problem is that I just -- 9 what's another word, Rex? 10 MR. EMERSON: I don't have a problem with the 11 paragraph, so -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about "concurrent use"? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no problem with the 15 paragraph, but it's contrary to what we're saying. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I'm talking about. 17 It's saying -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I look at what it's 19 saying -- 20 MR. EMERSON: It's not contrary. 21 (Several people talking at the same time; court reporter interrupted.) 22 23 MR. EMERSON: It's not contrary to what you're 24 saying. What it says is you're going to burn your paid 25 leave, and then if you run out of paid leave and are still on 2-9-09 154 1 FMLA, you're going to unpaid -- unpaid for "X" period of 2 time. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're running 4 concurrent. 5 MR. EMERSON: You're not doing the flip-flop where 6 you're running unpaid and then paid. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. So, you're running 8 concurrent. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both times start from day 11 one and run. 12 MS. HYDE: I think what Rusty's saying is that it's 13 confusing to employees. The employees think that that means 14 that they can run with -- with, you know, taking all their 15 leave time off, and then when they exhaust that, they can go 16 on FMLA. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it is confusing. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: You could have it read, "on 20 continuous FMLA leave, must exhaust all available vacation 21 leave and sick leave, if applicable, before resuming any 22 unpaid FMLA leave." 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This could -- 25 MR. EMERSON: But that wouldn't -- when you say 2-9-09 155 1 resuming, you're implying that they're jumping back in on the 2 back end, and they're not. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 4 MR. EMERSON: It's -- if it's one continuous 5 illness, it's one continuous run. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Couldn't you say -- 8 MS. HYDE: How about if we just put a period there? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Couldn't you say FMLA leave 10 will commence upon notification of a qualifying illness, 11 regardless of whether the employee has accrued sick leave or 12 vacation, period? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think -- you said 14 notification. I think you say occurrence. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, occurrence. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Of a qualifying -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A qualifying illness or 18 whatever -- event. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's just that it will 21 commence -- you know, FMLA leave will commence immediately 22 upon occurrence of a qualifying event, regardless of whether 23 there is any accrued sick or vacation. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can put a period. The more 25 periods you put, the clearer it gets. Say if you have any 2-9-09 156 1 vacation or unpaid leave, that can run concurrently. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Will run concurrently. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Will. If you do that, that's 4 great, 'cause then it makes it very clear to employees that 5 it's not their choice any more. 6 MS. HYDE: Can someone read that back to me? 7 'Cause all I have is, "FMLA will commence upon occurrence..." 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Of a qualifying FMLA event. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Rex said he liked "shall" 10 instead of "will." 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another part is, if an employee 12 has any unpaid vacation -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sick leave. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- or sick leave, it shall run 15 concurrently. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Any -- any accrued vacation or 17 sick leave. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With FMLA. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: With unpaid FMLA. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, with unpaid FMLA. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Leave? If you're going to do that, 22 then you need to designate they're going to burn vacation 23 first and then their sick leave. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, I mean, yeah. 25 Vacation, and then -- 2-9-09 157 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You'd want sick first and then 2 vacation, wouldn't you? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 4 MR. EMERSON: Not as an employer. 5 MS. HYDE: Not as an employer, no, sir. 6 MR. EMERSON: Because you want them to burn all 7 their -- their vested benefits first. If they burn their 8 sick leave and you terminate them, then you got to turn 9 around and pay them cash for three weeks of accumulated 10 vacation time. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but sick leave is sick 12 leave. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be fair. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I agree with Rex, but 15 if someone's sick, they should be able to use their sick 16 leave. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: First. Be fair. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, you want sick leave first? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to specify that sick leave, 21 though, is only available for the employee or the designated 22 member of the family that you've got there. Some of those 23 other events under FMLA they shouldn't be able to use sick 24 leave for. 25 MS. HYDE: Right. 2-9-09 158 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good point. 2 MR. EMERSON: That's -- I think the last paragraph 3 right here kind of -- that's what the intent is of that. 4 Excuse me, not the last paragraph, the last sentence of that 5 paragraph. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. I think that needs to stay. 7 MS. HYDE: So, FMLA will commence upon occurrence 8 of a qualifying FMLA event, period. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the -- 10 MS. HYDE: If employee has any accrued sick leave 11 or vacation leave, they must utilize it. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will run concurrently. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will run concurrently with 14 FMLA. 15 MS. HYDE: It will run concurrent -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With FMLA. 17 MS. HYDE: With FMLA. 18 MR. EMERSON: Shall. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Shall. 20 MS. HYDE: Shall? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Don't leave it up 22 for grabs. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Shall. 24 MS. HYDE: Shall. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then that title changes. 2-9-09 159 1 The substitution of paid leave or concurrent use of paid 2 leave and unpaid FMLA leave. 3 MS. HYDE: Concurrent use? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Of paid leave. 5 MS. HYDE: Of paid -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And unpaid FMLA leave. 7 MS. HYDE: But then that's still going to give 8 them -- that's still going to make them think that they can 9 have unpaid FMLA leave after they've taken their paid leave. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They can if they only have two 11 weeks of paid leave, but they're getting 12 weeks of FMLA. 12 MS. HYDE: The title, though, that will go back to 13 what your employee gets so upset about. It's a request. I 14 don't have to; it says here that it's unpaid. It's paid or 15 -- and then I can do unpaid FMLA here. Concurrent use of 16 paid leave -- say that one more time? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Concurrent use of paid leave 18 and FMLA leave. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: "And." Not "or." 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Take the word "unpaid" out. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Concurrent use of paid leave 22 and FMLA leave. That's all right. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You might have to put an 24 explanation on that, but -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put an asterisk. 2-9-09 160 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For some people, you do. This 2 got to be -- 3 MS. HYDE: Heavy. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, it did. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Words that mean a whole lot. 6 MS. HYDE: If you go to Page 76, 'cause this -- 7 this you'll need to know. I mean, the other part of it is, 8 if your administrator -- if H.R. is going to administrate it, 9 then H.R. needs to administrate it -- we need to know about 10 it. Because if you go to Page 76, employees who choose to 11 continue coverage while on unpaid FMLA leave must pay their 12 share of premiums, if any, under the group health plans then 13 in effect. The employee must pay their premiums for any 14 supplemental plans. The County bills employees on unpaid 15 FMLA one month in advance to maintain coverage. If the 16 County does not receive payment within 30 days of due date, 17 the coverage ends. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the "if any" in there for? 19 MS. HYDE: I don't know. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Take it out. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under the concurrent policy 22 we're talking about, that's covered. If they're running 23 simultaneously, concurrently, their health care coverage is 24 in place. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why the term "unpaid" is so 2-9-09 161 1 important right there, Bill. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. And then this tells 3 them they have to continue paying their premium. 4 MS. HYDE: Right. I just want to make sure, 'cause 5 that's what we try to go over with them when they come in. 6 Our job is to try to make sure that they understand the 7 rules, which is why you have this. Because even if they're 8 not requesting it, we're filling it out and explaining it to 9 them, and then we're trying to -- trying to explain to them 10 why they have to go to the doctor to get certified. I'm not 11 a doctor. Rusty's not a doctor. Rex isn't a doctor. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Far as what she asked, the 13 administrator, I think it should state that the Human 14 Resource officer for the county is the administrator of the 15 FMLA Act. I don't want to have anything to do with it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, going back to something 17 the Judge just said, that he liked the word "unpaid" in 18 there. I don't like the word "unpaid," because, to me, once 19 you say unpaid FMLA, you're implying that there's paid FMLA, 20 and there isn't. The only way you get paid is if you're 21 using vacation or sick time. 22 MS. HYDE: Right. But whether the employee has 23 that or not, there's a couple of things that cover us. They 24 have to have 1,250 hours and worked a year, basically, for 25 the County for them to be even eligible. 'Cause we've had 2-9-09 162 1 several that weren't eligible, so now they're on unpaid, 2 'cause they haven't accrued anything. They're in month two 3 or three, and they don't have any sick time or vacation time 4 for 12 weeks. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what you could do to 6 solve that, I think at the very end of it, where it says 7 Family Medical Leave Act, FMLA, you can put unpaid leave. 8 Because that's the county policy; you never pay for FMLA. 9 You pay for vacation, you pay for sick. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't be a bad idea to put 11 that here, and then leave out all the unpaid stuff. 12 MS. HYDE: That's going to confuse them. They're 13 going to think they get to take unpaid leave. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If they qualify, they do, for 15 12 weeks, if they don't have it. That's -- I mean, it -- the 16 County's not offering to pay for FMLA, period. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or the insurance premium. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or the insurance premium. 19 Only thing the County's offering to pay for is their sick and 20 vacation, as long as they have it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Including the insurance. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. So, FMLA for 23 Kerr County is unpaid. 24 MS. HYDE: But we're requiring them to use their 25 paid leave. 2-9-09 163 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Concurrent means yes, they 3 both start at the same time. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's consistent. 6 MS. HYDE: You want me to put Family and Medical 7 Leave, FMLA, is unpaid? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't. I'd leave it the 9 way it was. 10 MS. HYDE: Rex? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The law says it's unpaid. 12 MS. HYDE: No, it says that it might be unpaid. 13 They use a "may." 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know, but this county -- 15 because, as the Judge pointed out earlier, this county could 16 adopt a policy that says they're going to pay that 12 weeks. 17 This county has not done that, so I think it's unpaid and 18 should stay unpaid. All the employees know it. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who is advocating that? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I was not advocating that. I said 21 that would be permissible under the law for us to do, so -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, sure, it's permissible, 23 but its unaffordable. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you may -- there's a 25 point there; we may want to add a sentence that in the event 2-9-09 164 1 an employee utilizes all of his or her paid sick leave -- 2 "if," all right? -- and FMLA is still -- you're still 3 eligible for FMLA, that portion of the FMLA left is unpaid. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The balance of the -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The balance of the eligible 6 FMLA leave is unpaid. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is unpaid. 8 MS. HYDE: All paid leave, and there is...? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hi. 10 MS. HYDE: You said there is a remainder -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All accrued -- well, wait a minute. 12 You can use -- you can use more than that. 13 MS. HYDE: "In the event an employee uses all paid 14 leave, and there is..." That's as far as I got. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there is still an 16 unused portion of family -- FMLA, it's understood that that 17 portion is unpaid. Now, put the language -- whatever 18 language you want. That's the intent. 19 MS. HYDE: And there is still an unused portion of 20 FMLA -- I lost you. I'm trying to listen and write. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Work on it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just saying that whatever -- 23 whatever you don't have in benefits during the time of 24 FMLA -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can go in my office and 2-9-09 165 1 work it out. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The balance of that is 3 unpaid. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you like that plan? 5 MS. HYDE: So, what do we do for today? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to meet again 7 Friday. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we're meeting Friday. 9 MS. HYDE: So, you want it Friday? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I think we -- I 11 think we need to do it as soon as possible. I think it's a 12 pretty good thing, but I think we also have been trying to do 13 all this in one big, fell swoop, haven't we, the policy 14 manual and all that? I mean, this -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How close are we to having 16 the personnel policy handbook? 17 MS. HYDE: Y'all have never asked for another 18 meeting. I asked the last time, and it was at y'all's 19 discretion, so I haven't pushed it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just that one section. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Change just this one section, 22 or just that -- or just issue a court order saying effective 23 today or whatever, that all FML -- or FMLA will run 24 concurrently with all accrued sick or vacation. That will 25 solve the immediate problem until you get all the rest of the 2-9-09 166 1 new policies in there. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we try and get this 3 thing done by Friday and attach this to a court order. 4 MS. HYDE: So, I need to be back here Friday. What 5 are we doing Friday? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Won't that be fun? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10:30 on Friday. 8 MS. HYDE: 10:30. I didn't know we had something 9 at 10:30. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They do now. 11 MS. HYDE: Oh. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You always enjoy this, 13 don't you? 14 MS. HYDE: I love it. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you can't be here, Eva, 16 I'll present it for you, don't worry. 17 MS. HYDE: No, that's fine. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I don't understand is how 19 y'all seem to be wanting the same thing, and y'all are 20 disagreeing with each other. 21 MS. HYDE: We're not really disagreeing, but he 22 wanted to put up the -- he wanted to put up the employees' 23 side, and he felt at first that we shouldn't force people to 24 take FMLA. But the problem was, employers got the short end 25 of that stick for so long, and so, you know, employers 2-9-09 167 1 weren't allowing folks, because that's what they thought the 2 law meant and said, to take all this sick time and stuff. 3 And there are a lot of good employees that have a lot of sick 4 time and vacation time. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That needs to be -- 6 MS. HYDE: The employers were sitting there with 7 jobs open for a year. What would Mindy's office do without 8 -- without Beth for a year? What would y'all do without Jody 9 for a year? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, don't even go there. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They'd give her a temporary 12 position until that one came back, and kill the position. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there not a proposal in Congress 14 right now -- 15 MS. HYDE: It is. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to have FMLA required as paid 17 leave? 18 MS. HYDE: Right. And if the employee did not have 19 paid leave to utilize, it was up to the employer to pay that 20 leave. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And that was for employers. 22 MS. HYDE: Which goes even more to yours about the 23 bad employee that uses all their sick time. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And at this point -- and this 25 is -- you know, I did want to -- to stress the employees' 2-9-09 168 1 part, and I didn't like the way the policy was written, 2 'cause it -- it gave exactly what we're changing, where it 3 said they had to use it. But I think that it is serious that 4 the County does adopt, one, a limitation on our sick leave 5 built up, accrued and that, as soon as possible. And, two, 6 if the federal government passes that where the 12 weeks is 7 paid, then I think you can pretty well do away with sick 8 leave, except for maybe, like, five personal days a year or 9 something. 10 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because then if it's anything 12 serious, they're getting paid for it anyhow. 13 MS. HYDE: Right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we whipped up on that 15 one about as much as we could? Okay. Does any member of the 16 Court have anything to offer in connection with matters that 17 were considered in executive session? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We were not in executive 19 session. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I know. We're in open, but we 21 were in executive session. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. No. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We were. 2-9-09 169 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're ahead of us, Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I had a short memory. Do 3 you remember what you ate for lunch? Let the record reflect 4 Commissioner Oehler has this blank look on his face. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not saying anything. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody have anything to 7 offer in connection with the executive session matters that 8 we considered before lunch? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can I make one quick comment? 10 Jail population, believe it or not, went down to 121 last 11 week. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff just announced he didn't 13 need a new jail. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hope we never need a new 15 jail as long as I'm here, Judge, but that's the lowest I've 16 seen it in over five years. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what's the cause of 18 that? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We got a new judge, and we got 20 D.A.'s pushing cases through. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yea. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is our little program -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not turning them loose on the 24 street. They're actually hearing cases and getting them 25 done. 2-9-09 170 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is our program functioning? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not even up and running 3 yet. But it's fixing to be, and I think that will help. I 4 think we're -- the way things are going, I told both judges, 5 and I've had several meetings with them and the D.A.'s. I 6 really think that if they keep moving them like they are, and 7 we're dropping the number of days these people are getting 8 either tried or getting, you know, sent to prison, plea 9 bargains, whatever, but they're getting handled. They're not 10 just letting them out on the street, which I don't think they 11 should do either. But I would not doubt it, if they keep it 12 up, that we hit below 100 in that jail. And that just shows 13 the efficiency of running them through and not letting them 14 build up. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all we're looking 16 for. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that, by itself, will save 18 this county. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have to do our 20 little program if it's -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That little program's going to 22 be what probably will push it down below that -- that mark. 23 I think you're going to need that program. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, do you think we're 25 going to get that going this year? 2-9-09 171 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next 10, 12 years? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Somebody's going to put in -- 4 they're already changing the policy on -- like, say a guy 5 gets put in jail on a drug charge, and normally he's waiting 6 three weeks before it goes to the Grand Jury, because we're 7 waiting on the lab submission to come back. When I met with 8 them last week, we're not waiting on labs submissions any 9 more. They're going straight to the D.A., and they're going 10 to -- if the guy wants to plead to it, especially if it's a 11 trace case, they'll let him plead on information without 12 having to sit in jail three weeks waiting on the lab results. 13 So, it's just -- the process is speeding everything up. Now, 14 this morning it was 142, but -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just after the weekend. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just after the weekend. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Full moon. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, full moon. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it is looking a lot better 21 than I've seen it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further, gentlemen? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be adjourned. 25 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:45 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 2-9-09 172 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 13th day of February, 8 2009. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-9-09