1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, February 23, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 23, 2009 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request from Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board for approval of appropriations up to $75,000 5 from existing airport fund cash balance 7 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on presentation and resolution regarding support 7 of the 2010 Census 15 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request from the Hill Country Mounted Peace 9 Officers Association to be added to the nonprofit list for a reduced rate at HCYEC 21 10 1.4 Presentation of the County Treasurer's monthly 11 report for January 2009 to Commissioners Court for examination and acceptance 22 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 13 courthouse square renovations 24 14 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on dangerous wild animal ordinance 29 15 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 16 regarding West Law contract for Kerr County Jail 34 17 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve Phase 1 of Boerne Falls/Privilege Creek 18 Ranches and release the letter of escrow 36 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to name two private roads per 911 guidelines 37 20 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 21 determine what funds to use to pay for costs of building a new road and a 20-count parking lot 22 for the Hill Country Community MHMR Crisis Stabilization Unit 38 23 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 determine whether or not a policy change is needed in Facilities Use Policy for HCYEC to 25 include all non-profits listed under the 501(c) section of the IRS Code 59 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 23, 2009 2 PAGE 3 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize application for 2009-2010 CDBG/Colonias 4 funding for OSSF replacement of failing systems for low-income homeowners living in designated 5 areas where public sewer is not available 63 6 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on census PSAP data and maps as prepared by AACOG 7 for Kerr County 73 8 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set fee paid to jurors as reimbursement 82 9 1.16 Update on Tyler Technologies issues 91 10 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 11 request to approve "Texas Electronic Framework Standard Service Level Agreement" and authorize 12 County Judge to sign same 91 13 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve using 2008 capital loan software training 14 funds for Tax Assessor/Collector's Office for the disbursement system 99 15 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 approve the Auditor instituting the purchasing order system to comply with audit risk standards 17 and SAS 104-111 as required by the AICPA 103 18 4.1 Pay Bills 122 19 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 4.3 Late Bills --- 20 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 125 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 125 22 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 127 23 --- Adjourned 140 24 25 4 1 On Monday, February 23, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this 10 time and date, Monday, February the 23rd, 2009, at 9a.m. It 11 is that time now. Commissioner Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's stand for a word of 13 prayer, and followed by the pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be 17 heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free 18 to come forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. 19 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that you 20 fill out a participation form. They are located at the back 21 of the room, I think. If you have not filled out a 22 participation form and wish to be heard on any matter as it 23 comes up, why, get my attention in some manner; I'll see that 24 you do have the opportunity to be heard. But we do prefer 25 that you fill out a participation form. It helps me to know 2-23-09 5 1 that there's someone on that particular item that wants to be 2 heard. But right now, if there's anybody that wishes to be 3 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel 4 free to come forward at this time and let us know what's on 5 your mind. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on 6 with our agenda. Do you have anything for us this morning, 7 Commissioner Oehler? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure hope everybody will be 9 more careful with matches and welding and whatever. We had 10 another pretty good fire the other day out in the west end of 11 the county. It involved -- was mainly on the Ponderosa 12 Ranch, hit a little bit of the Y.O. and a little small bit of 13 what used to be the... Somewhere around 600, 700 acres 14 burned that afternoon. And there was a little problem, I 15 think, with dispatch on that deal. They couldn't seem to 16 call the county to help bring some water and fuel and things, 17 and so one of the fire chiefs called me, and it was amazing; 18 I called up Road and Bridge, and within just about 30 19 minutes, they showed up with 2,000 gallons of water and some 20 fuel. So, I don't know what the problem was with that, but I 21 understand the call was made three times to ask for 22 assistance, and wasn't passed on. But, anyway, it got 23 handled, got put out. We had all the firefighters from a lot 24 of different areas -- I'm not blaming you, Rusty. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I missed part of that. I 2-23-09 6 1 just -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't ask any questions, 3 either. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll ask them after the 5 meeting. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But, anyway... 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause I know Austin was 8 calling me, so -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Junction got involved, and, 10 of course, Mountain Home and Divide and -- and Hunt, Ingram 11 all showed up very quickly and got it put out as quickly as 12 possible. We're lucky that it was an area where it wasn't 13 real hard to fight. So, anyway, that's what I have. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Baldwin? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I don't have 16 anything today, thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday I spent the better part 21 of the day in Austin meeting with other hill country counties 22 and representatives and others, and Representative Rose has 23 filed HB 578, which is basically a mirror of the resolution 24 this Court passed and other counties have passed. 25 Representative Miller is on board to cosponsor that, and I've 2-23-09 7 1 talked with Harvey's office, and requesting that he cosponsor 2 it as well. The feeling is, by Paul Suggs, who knows a lot 3 more about the Legislature than I do, that if Harvey will 4 cosponsor it, there's a reasonably good chance it will get 5 out of the House this year, based on the speaker and the 6 committee chairs. So, that's kind of working along. And the 7 -- we're looking at possibly put it on the next agenda for us 8 to do another resolution citing that particular bill, and 9 also authorizing me to talk with other local entities 10 about -- regarding their support as well. But that's going. 11 And, actually, though Senator Fraser was not real positive 12 when I met with him, he evidently met with Jim Allison and 13 was fairly positive on his support as well, which is a little 14 bit of a surprise. There's another bill up there that 15 Senator Wentworth filed, the same bill that he has filed for 16 many years, and added some things that we've asked. 17 Statewide bill. We weren't real happy with the statewide 18 bill, but -- you know, so that's what he wants to do, so 19 that's working through the Senate side. We'll see where that 20 goes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Why don't we move on 24 with our agenda. First item on the agenda is a timed item 25 for 9 o'clock; it's a few minutes past that, to consider, 2-23-09 8 1 discuss, and take appropriate action on a request from the 2 Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board for approval of 3 appropriations up to $75,000 from existing airport fund cash 4 balance. Mr. Bobertz? 5 MR. BOBERTZ: Thank you, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to have you with us this 7 morning. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Morning. 9 MR. BOBERTZ: As you see, we're requesting an 10 additional appropriations of $75,000. This is all for 11 improvements to our firefighting water supply. The fire 12 code -- big picture here, the fire code changed on us after 13 we put the lines in several years ago. We're now able to 14 provide firefighting water supply to the great -- a large 15 area of leasable land, but only up to about 900 gallons per 16 minute. New fire code calls for 1,500 gallons a minute. So, 17 until we fix that problem, a large area of leasable land is, 18 for all practical purposes, unleasable at the airport. So, 19 we need to find a way to fix this problem, first step being 20 to do the necessary engineering. In our deliberations in the 21 Airport Board, a number of possible ways to skin that cat 22 have developed, so we need an engineering study to pick the 23 most viable alternative and then to do the design work so 24 that we're ready to go when we can fund project itself. 25 You see in the material you have that we do have 2-23-09 9 1 funding for $75,000 left over from -- or available in cash 2 balance. This cash balance sort of emerged, from the murk in 3 my mind, anyway, only about three weeks ago. Having grown up 4 in a corporate environment, my world, at the end of the 5 budget year, if you didn't spend it, it was gone. And in 6 this world, apparently if you have excess revenue and/or 7 underrun your authorized expenditures, that -- that cash goes 8 into a general pot, and it's there for future use. So, we do 9 have the funding to spend on the -- to fund the $75,000 10 request, and we would respectfully request that authorization 11 this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Roger, you may have 13 answered the question I have in my mind, but I want to make 14 sure. I think I understood you to say that the 75,000 is to 15 examine alternatives and then do the engineering -- 16 MR. BOBERTZ: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- on the acceptable 18 alternatives? 19 MR. BOBERTZ: That's correct, yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Because I still have 21 a little reservation in my mind as to the alternative that's 22 being proposed as being the most practical, cost-effective. 23 So, you're going to examine other alternatives as well? 24 MR. BOBERTZ: Yes, we are. And there's another 25 alternative -- the one that was on deck for a while was -- we 2-23-09 10 1 have a water line running down 27 and another one running 2 down the access road, and the alternative on deck was to hook 3 these two together -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 MR. BOBERTZ: -- by coming under the runway and the 6 taxiway. And that -- that would at least help the problem. 7 There's another alternative that surfaced that makes a lot 8 more sense, I think, and it's -- it came from a discussion 9 between Tom Moser, who's on the Airport Board, and Charlie 10 Hastings, the City engineer -- excuse me, Director of Public 11 Works. And this involves running a line instead from the 12 vicinity of Mooney under that runway and putting stubs off it 13 to come down into the leasable land. It looks like it will 14 be a lot less expensive to do, but it needs to be designed, 15 and it also needs to be thoroughly evaluated from an 16 engineering standpoint. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that would tell the 18 Court that -- in effect, that the $600,000 that has been 19 estimated -- thrown around as an estimated cost to rectify 20 the problem may be overstating the amount needed? Is that a 21 possibility? 22 MR. BOBERTZ: Maybe, yes. Until -- pending the 23 result of the study. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 MR. BOBERTZ: I'd say somewhere between "maybe" and 2-23-09 11 1 "probably." 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. There's a 3 quantum leap there most times. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Instead of a WAG, that's a SWAG. 5 MR. BOBERTZ: That's right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: A scientific WAG. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Roger, the 75,000, as I recall, 8 is based on an estimated percentage, which is the way a lot 9 of these things run. 10 MR. BOBERTZ: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the cost comes in under -- 12 this is kind of a not-to-exceed type number. I mean, it 13 could be -- 75,000 may be on the high side for the 14 engineering? 15 MR. BOBERTZ: It may be. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just won't know until -- 17 MR. BOBERTZ: Also, the same terminology would 18 apply, I think. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Another question I 20 have -- and I certainly have, I think, no problem with this 21 funding at all, but the only concern I have is that the 22 Airport Board look at your fund balance and make sure that 23 y'all think this is the best way to use it. And the reason 24 I'm bringing that up is, I fear that TexDOT may be wanting to 25 accelerate the other projects out there, the drainage project 2-23-09 12 1 a little bit, and that funding is not set aside by either the 2 County or the City at this point. 3 MR. BOBERTZ: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a match, and the match will 5 be substantially less if it's accelerated, which is a really 6 good thing. But I -- we need to make sure that this is the 7 -- y'all look at both those projects together and figure out 8 the priorities as to which one you think that fund balance is 9 best used at, if needed. Hopefully we can come up with some 10 other funding for one or both of them, but -- 11 MR. BOBERTZ: Hopefully. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- I'm certainly in support. 13 MR. BOBERTZ: It's an interesting world this month. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bobertz, as I'm sure you're 16 aware, there has -- this particular project has been included 17 with others for stimulus funding. 18 MR. BOBERTZ: That's correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If, in fact, stimulus funding is 20 acquired for this project, would any part of this funding 21 possibly be reimbursable out of that funding so as to get it 22 back into your -- into your reserve fund balance? 23 MR. BOBERTZ: I do not know the answer to that 24 question, Judge. I'm sorry. I can find out. But -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It'd be nice. 2-23-09 13 1 MR. BOBERTZ: It sure would. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As kind of a follow-up to that 4 a little bit, one of the reasons I think the Airport Board is 5 progressing at the speed they are is that if that stimulus 6 funding does happen, it needs to be, quote, "shovel ready," 7 and it can't be shovel ready until the engineering's done. 8 MR. BOBERTZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I imagine the -- while I 10 don't know the answer, Judge, it would seem reasonable that 11 in any of the projects that stimulus money is used for, there 12 has to be acceptable engineering so that the projects can 13 move forward, so I'm with you on that. If that comes down 14 the pike, we should -- we should put it back in the reserves 15 if that happens. 16 MR. BOBERTZ: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you be comfortable 18 with a not-to-exceed motion of 75? 19 MR. BOBERTZ: I would. I'm advised that 20 authorizations like this need to be for a fixed amount, but 21 if that's not true, that's fine by me. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we can do, you know, 23 "not to exceed" or we can do 75, or we could do 55. 24 MR. BOBERTZ: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or we could do 25. 2-23-09 14 1 (Laughter.) 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 3 approve the request of the Airport Board for -- to take 4 reserves -- some of their existing reserves for engineering 5 on the airport water line improvement project not to exceed 6 $75,000. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 9 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is -- is this fund -- I saw 11 the Auditor come in, I thought. Is this fund kept at the 12 county? 13 MS. HARGIS: No, it's not. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- okay, that's all. I'm 15 going to take your word for it, then, that that money's 16 there. And why are we doing it if it's not here? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has to be both of us. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a budget amendment. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the money is in the city 20 coffers? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the airport fund, which 23 the City -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that amount's in there? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2-23-09 15 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussions on 3 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 4 your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 9 Mr. Bobertz. 10 MR. BOBERTZ: Thank you, Judge. Thank you, 11 Commissioners. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here. Let's 13 move to our 9:05 timed item. It is past that now, to 14 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 15 presentation and resolution regarding support of the 2010 16 census. Mr. Sierra and Ms. Ochoa with the census people are 17 here with us. Good morning. 18 MR. SIERRA: Good morning, sir. My name is Ken 19 Sierra. I'm a partnership specialist with the U.S. Census 20 Bureau. I want to thank you for allowing me the opportunity 21 to address the Court this morning. As y'all know, the census 22 is a very important tool that is used by government. It's 23 used for the apportionment of seats for the House of 24 Representatives. The census data is also used to establish 25 the funds that are allocated -- federal funds that are 2-23-09 16 1 allocated on an annual basis. Currently, it's at 300 billion 2 dollars annually. And it's also used for redistricting. So, 3 the statistics that come out of this census at the -- once 4 the data's collected, is used for redistricting, and in the 5 different communities. Now, Kerr County's response rate for 6 census 2000 was 65 percent. Of all the possible -- of the 7 100 percent that we could have received in terms of -- of 8 data, we only received 65 percent response rate. 9 As a partnership specialist, what I've been 10 chartered to do, or what my main goal is to work with the 11 communities, work with Kerr County to develop an awareness 12 and to increase our response rate for this upcoming census. 13 Now, that's done by combining -- in my case, how I achieve 14 this is by combining the strengths of the local government, 15 community organizations, faith-based organizations, the 16 schools, media, and businesses within the community, work 17 with them to see if I could get support and get the word out 18 to all the levels of the community, to all the people as much 19 as possible within -- within Kerr County. Now, in order to 20 achieve this goal, there's a couple of things that I could 21 do. Number one is to try to establish complete count 22 committees within the county, and also to create partnerships 23 with all these agencies. 24 The immediate impact of my work and my effort here 25 and the census work is that we're creating jobs in the 2-23-09 17 1 community level, the communities. Right now, we're in a 2 hiring campaign. It's through a -- it's through a toll-free 3 number, (866) 861-2010. We're starting to hire people within 4 the communities. The idea is that in order to get the word 5 out, it's best if we use people within the community. 6 Instead of bringing in individuals from San Antonio or 7 Austin, it would be best if we hired people within the 8 community, and they then become the work force and try to get 9 the -- the word out for this census in April 2010. With this 10 effort of hiring people then comes the issue of getting 11 facilities to train them and to -- and to test them. It's 12 not fair to offer a job opportunity here in, for example, 13 Kerrville, and then tell them you need to go to San Antonio 14 to get tested. So, one of the initiatives that I have is to 15 go throughout the communities and try to find facilities that 16 can be used in support of the -- the hiring process within 17 the different townships and different communities. 18 In conclusion, this year -- this coming census is 19 an easier census than the 2000 census. They used to have 20 what was called the short form and the long form. This is a 21 short form. It's a 10-question census. Probably take 10 22 minutes to fill out, and the impact's going to be for the 23 next 10 years. What I would want from the Court is to see if 24 I could get a signed resolution in support of the 2010 census 25 within Kerr County, and I would work with the County to try 2-23-09 18 1 to -- to increase the awareness among the population, with 2 the ultimate goal of getting a better response rate in the 3 coming year. Pending any questions, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Sierra, is there 5 somebody out there that thinks that we're not going to 6 participate in the census? Or -- I mean, I don't understand 7 why we're doing this. 8 MR. SIERRA: Well, as we -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we trying to convince 10 someone of something or what? 11 MR. SIERRA: As we -- as we start this initiative 12 -- again, like I said, I was hired to work with the counties. 13 And as I come through and visit with the counties, what I'm 14 trying to do is establish partnerships, and -- that I could 15 have recorded; that I could say, "Yes, Kerrville is 16 supporting the census, and yes, we are working towards the 17 goal of trying to get a better response rate." Is there 18 somebody saying that Kerrville didn't answer? The truth is, 19 sir, within the -- the immediate counties, Kerrville had the 20 best response rate. 65 percent was the best response rate 21 within this area here. When I say "this area," I'm comparing 22 Bandera, Real -- Bexar? The response rate was -- was very 23 good, so there's not an issue that we -- that Kerr -- 24 Kerrville or Kerr County is not supporting this. As a matter 25 of fact, they did very good. However, we're trying to get a 2-23-09 19 1 better response rate this coming census. That's all. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you would take our -- I 3 don't want to take up the whole time here, but I'm just 4 really confused about this. You're going to take our 5 resolution, then, and go to other agencies or other companies 6 or other businesses in -- in this community and say, "Hey, 7 these guys up at the courthouse are going to participate in 8 the census," like we always do, "so I want you to as well"? 9 Is that -- is that what you're saying? 10 MR. SIERRA: No, sir. What I'm saying is, I would 11 like the highest elected officials of the county to show 12 their support and that we would have this record -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm lost. 14 MR. SIERRA: -- that you are supporting the census. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 16 MR. SIERRA: The 2010 census. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, it's publicity. 19 This is a publicity action. We're just saying that we think 20 this -- we're just saying as a Court that the census is 21 important, and it gives the -- the press an opportunity to 22 have a story. 23 MS. OCHOA: It is -- you know, the message about it 24 being important, easy, and safe coming from the community, 25 from elected officials, from civic leaders, from pastors, 2-23-09 20 1 ministers, from people that provide services to their own 2 community, is a message that can -- can be trusted. And if 3 the people are hearing from the community leaders that this 4 is important to the community, then we feel that we'll get a 5 higher response rate. And the response rate deals only with 6 when we send out the questionnaire, and, like, we'll do that 7 in March of 2010. Census data is April the 1st. By the 8 middle of April, we'll determine how many households have not 9 returned the questionnaires. Then we need to hire more 10 people to go back and knock on those doors to get those 11 questionnaires. And, so, if we can get the whole community 12 involved in responding to the questionnaires when they get -- 13 they first get it, and -- you know, because there's many 14 factors. People are busy. They get a lot of -- you know, 15 they're going to receive a notice saying the questionnaire -- 16 you're going to receive the questionnaire. You're going to 17 then get the questionnaire. Then you get a reminder, "Have 18 you filled out the questionnaire?" Because we know that 19 people are busy. They receive a lot of bulk mail. There are 20 other priorities. There's a fear factor that -- not 21 believing the federal government, not believing that it is 22 not safe to respond. So, we are looking at the whole -- the 23 whole community having a reason to respond, and it starts at 24 your level. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the 2-23-09 21 1 resolution as presented. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the resolution as presented. Question or 5 discussion on that motion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's going to authorize 7 you to sign the resolution as well. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 9 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 10 raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 15 to Item 3, a timed item for 9:15. Consider, discuss, and 16 take appropriate action on a request from the Hill Country 17 Mounted Peace Officers Association to be added to the 18 nonprofit list for a reduced rate at the Hill Country Youth 19 Exhibit Center. Mr. Mayberry? 20 MR. MAYBERRY: Judge Tinley, Commissioners, good 21 morning. My name is Stephen Mayberry. I'm the 22 secretary/treasurer of the Hill Country Mounted Peace 23 Officers Association. Thank you for your time this morning. 24 Just real briefly, I have with me a copy of our tax 25 determination letter from the I.R.S., and would request that 2-23-09 22 1 we be considered to be added to the charitable list so that 2 we can lease from the Youth Exhibition Center. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all are a 501(c)(3)? 4 MR. MAYBERRY: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 14 Mr. Mayberry. 15 MR. MAYBERRY: Fantastic. Thank y'all very much. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 4, a presentation 17 of the County Treasurer's monthly report for January 2009 to 18 Commissioners Court for the Court's examination and 19 acceptance. Good morning, Ms. Williams. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Good morning, gentlemen. How are 21 you? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very well, thank you. 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Good. You have in front of you the 24 January Treasurer's report. If there are any questions, I 25 would try my best to answer them for you. 2-23-09 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we accept the Treasurer's 2 report as presented. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval. Question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mindy, is this a monthly -- 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do this every month? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, it has to be filed every month. 10 Didn't realize that until some time ago. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I remember when you 12 uncovered it. It's just kind of strange. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are our tax collections -- if 16 you know the answer; I don't know, maybe Diane is the person 17 to ask. Maybe Jeannie. Are we on target? I mean, did we 18 get -- 19 MS. HARGIS: We don't know yet, because we haven't 20 got all the February cash receipts in yet. And it'll be a 21 while. I mean, we just got 8 million from January, but I 22 haven't seen the report yet to be able to answer that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we'll know probably in 24 March how we're doing? 25 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 2-23-09 24 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. How much? All right, 2 thank you. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 5 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 6 your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 11 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 12 the courthouse square renovation. Commissioner Letz? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda kind 14 of as an update for those that have been seeing -- Tim and 15 his crew have been out there doing all kinds of things. Even 16 received an e-mail from the public about one of the items. 17 But the main reason it's on the -- I put it on the agenda is, 18 as we all know, we're in the middle of a pretty bad drought. 19 The plan has been for -- since budget time, to plant new sod 20 on the area inside the driveway this spring, and I think 21 Tim's on target to do that. I've gotten him in touch with 22 some sod companies, and I think he's planning on -- he 23 himself is planning to plant probably mid-March. And I just 24 wanted to make sure that the Court was behind it, considering 25 the -- there may be a little bit of -- of flak potentially 2-23-09 25 1 from some of the public from us planting sod in the middle of 2 a drought. What is being -- the type of sod is a -- one of 3 the more drought-tolerant sods, zoysia, as well on the 4 conditions we have around the courthouse. And -- but I just 5 wanted to kind of put it on the agenda to make sure the 6 Court's ready to proceed with that. Even though we're in a 7 drought, this is still the best time of the year to plant. 8 If we're going to get any -- if we're going -- the drought's 9 going to continue, the spring will be most likely to get the 10 rain. And it doesn't take that much water to get sod 11 established; generally two to three weeks of heavy water, 12 then you're home free. So, I just wanted to make sure that 13 no one had any issues. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm on board. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, not 16 necessarily about the sod, but about the renovations in the 17 area -- the area right outside the main door here where we 18 gather sometimes for events is in pretty sad need of repair. 19 Is that -- is that going to be resurfaced? Is that part of 20 the plan? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Are you talking about the paved area? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 23 MR. BOLLIER: That's not part of the plan at this 24 time, no, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that there -- my 2-23-09 26 1 guess is that there will be funds available -- 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- after, 'cause Tim is doing 4 everything in-house, basically. And so I think -- I mean, 5 right near what's budgeted. 6 MR. BOLLIER: Right now, the main thing we're 7 working on is the yard itself, but as soon as we get all that 8 done, then, yes, sir, I do want to come in there and do 9 something with that paved area. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I knew you'd find the 11 answer. 12 MR. BOLLIER: Well, I kept -- I saw you looking at 13 me, so I knew. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd encouraged that earlier, 15 too. You're not alone. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Tim. 17 MR. BOLLIER: You're welcome, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: There was a drainage issue out there 19 as to that particular area, and Tim has found a resolution to 20 that. 21 MR. BOLLIER: It is fixed. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Both sides are fixed now. At one 24 time, we couldn't get any water through one side. As you're 25 looking at the old hospital over there, on the right-hand 2-23-09 27 1 side as it runs out to the curb, we couldn't get any water 2 through there. We couldn't figure out why. Well, they used 3 old clay pipe, and I can't tell you how old that is, but that 4 clay pipe is no longer between where the horseshoe is on the 5 inside, past the sidewalk out there. That's all green sewer 6 pipe out there, 6-inch sewer pipe. We shouldn't have any 7 problems any more. We went to the -- even to the lengths to 8 put -- I forget what it's called -- some rabbit wire around 9 the end of it so the leaves and stuff won't get in it, 10 because that's actually what clogged it all up. The leaves 11 and sticks got in there and we couldn't break it loose. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just -- I think the 13 Court's aware of it, so -- and the public is here as well. 14 The whole project is going to be much less maintenance cost 15 and water cost long-term, going with -- a lot of the shrubs 16 and the kind of hodgepodge of plantings are being eliminated 17 with a bunch more simple things. The mulch around the trees, 18 which everyone has seen, we received an e-mail on the proper 19 way to mulch trees. The -- you know, that helps with 20 maintenance. It also helps with the water retention around 21 the trees and the health of the trees. So, I think 22 everything we're doing is going to, long-term, pay for 23 itself. I think we'll have, for the first time since I've 24 been a commissioner, and probably long before that, have a 25 courthouse square that really looks nice. 2-23-09 28 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know anybody that 2 would comment on the memorial markers, by any chance? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was getting ready to. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you were? 5 MR. LUTHER: I was too. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Oh, I am shocked. 7 MR. LUTHER: Are you? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the repositioning 9 of those markers is great. They look good there. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looks fantastic. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was pretty heavy. I 12 understand -- I think Road and Bridge had a bit of a feat 13 getting that out of the ground and over here. 14 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, we did. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: They did an excellent job, though. 16 They got that thing set in there nicely, and Tim had it all 17 prepared, and we got the other two markers there, which is 18 probably the best place for everything, the way it's situated 19 now. And they did -- when we get through, it's really going 20 to be stellar. You had a comment? 21 MR. LUTHER: Oh, Judge Tinley, members of the 22 Commission, I had seen it this weekend, and just wanted to 23 come down this morning and say thank you on behalf of all the 24 members of the county Historical Commission. I think it 25 looks really great. And, Tim, I want to thank you for the 2-23-09 29 1 excellent job. And I even did a little check-up on the 2 marker that's out by the street that TexDOT is going to move 3 out to Camp Verde, and I understand that it's cracked or -- 4 MR. BOLLIER: Got a crack down where the pipe comes 5 up. It's been there, about where it fits onto the pipe, 6 there's a crack up on the top, and I don't know that you can 7 fix that. 8 MR. LUTHER: It's probably been hit by a car, so 9 we're going to move it out of the way as soon as we can get 10 that arranged. And I would ask you to talk to your staff 11 about arranging a time that we could rededicate these markers 12 with a brief ceremony in front of the courthouse, but thank 13 you very much for your kind cooperation on that. 14 MR. BOLLIER: I just want to add that Mr. Leonard 15 Odom back there, he needs some thank-you's too, 'cause he -- 16 he played a great part in moving it. Without his guys and 17 his equipment, we couldn't have never got to move it. 18 MR. LUTHER: Thank you, Mr. Odom. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Big chunk of granite. 20 MR. BOLLIER: That's a big hunk of granite, believe 21 me. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Dr. Luther. Leonard, 23 thank you for a great -- great job. Anything else on that 24 particular item? Let's move on to Item 6; to consider, 25 discuss, and take appropriate action on dangerous wild animal 2-23-09 30 1 ordinance. Commissioner Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I placed this on this 3 agenda. I believe we had a little deal with a dangerous wild 4 animal that kind of escaped the cage in the not too distant 5 past, and I feel like that maybe it's time, with our 6 population growing and this land getting cut up in smaller 7 pieces, and it's just not a good idea to allow any more of 8 that sort of thing to come into the county. I want to 9 propose that -- that we grandfather the ones that are already 10 here; the ones that are licensed, permitted, and are housed 11 in the proper facilities, to grandfather those, and to ban 12 all others that are on this list of dangerous wild animals to 13 be brought into the county from this point forward. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask a question? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Under -- under -- what law 17 have we been functioning under all these years? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before today? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was adopted in 2001, and I 21 believe the section is 822, and it was added in the 2001 22 Legislature, 77th Legislature. Chapter 54, Section 1, 23 effective September 2001. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And does that talk about -- 25 does that talk about things that the County would do as far 2-23-09 31 1 as registration and those kinds of things? We had this 2 discussion, kind of, -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- a couple weeks ago. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all spelled out with 6 what -- what people have to do, and to this point, to have 7 had animals here, and it requires inspection by our Animal 8 Control. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have we been doing that? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not as well as we should 11 have, but I believe that with this last incident, things are 12 going to be done exactly according to the way the law 13 requires. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a hard time of doing 15 something new when we really haven't been taking care of 16 things that have been on the books for a long time. Now, if 17 we're not taking care of the business at hand, why would we 18 want to add a new law on there that we may or may not live 19 with? I mean, I'm not sure. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the only addition would 21 be just to ban them from coming any more, so it'll actually 22 be a lot easier than trying to police more coming in. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be easier. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I acknowledge there are very 25 few right now that are actually licensed and permitted. 2-23-09 32 1 And -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My recollection last time we 3 did this is that we held a public hearing on this before we 4 changed -- changed it. You know, I'd be in favor of doing 5 that. And also -- you know, I have no problem of doing it; I 6 think it's probably a good idea, and probably time to do it, 7 like you said. But I think, you know, we ought to offer the 8 public an opportunity to -- you know, to give their opinion 9 on it, and also have the actual new ordinance so we can 10 eliminate the old stuff out of the books and have actually 11 one new court order that sets the new -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There actually will be one 13 change. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that was what I was 15 going to comment. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Everything else remains the 17 same as we've been upgrading them, with one change. And if 18 you'd like to have a public hearing, I'm sure not in 19 opposition to that. I don't believe -- Rex, the law doesn't 20 require that we have a public hearing on this, according to 21 what you gave me. 22 MR. EMERSON: No, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just remember we did it last 24 time. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So if that's what you'd like 2-23-09 33 1 to do, we can put it on -- we can post a public hearing for 2 maybe the second meeting in March; give us ample time. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: How are we going to -- how are we 4 going to determine who's grandfathered and who the existing 5 folks are? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The ones that presently have 7 permits and own animals that are here now. If they don't -- 8 you know, ones we find out that we didn't know about, that's 9 a good question. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that's the reason 11 for the public hearing. They're on notice then, and if they 12 don't have it registered, you know -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Give them 30 days to do so, 14 and after that time, I'll be glad to do a public hearing. 15 Then we can have it more definite and have it spelled out. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to see a public 17 hearing. I'd also like to see the revised order -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- in terms of what we're 20 planning and how we're doing it, and blah, blah, blah. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, that's fine with me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we set a public hearing 23 under this agenda item? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Need to do the second meeting 25 in -- 2-23-09 34 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: March. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In March. What would that 3 be? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 24th? 26th? 5 MS. GRINSTEAD: 23rd. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 23rd. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We would have got there 8 eventually. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to order that. I 10 move that we set the public hearing for 10 o'clock on 11 March 23rd on the dangerous wild animal -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- regulations. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to set 15 a public hearing for March 23rd, 2009, at 10 a.m., on the 16 issue of amending or changing or otherwise modifying the 17 current dangerous wild animal order. Question or discussion 18 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 24 to Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 25 regarding the West Law contract for the Kerr County Jail. 2-23-09 35 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this actually is is our 2 law library. We have to have one sort or another. We've had 3 one for a number of years now, and the contract needs to be 4 renewed. It's not paid for out of county funds at all; it's 5 paid for out of proceeds from inmate commissary account. But 6 if we need the approval of the Court, I still need to pull 7 this agenda item for now, because Rex and I still have an 8 issue over the contract that West Law sent. It doesn't 9 really give us a termination clause in there, either after 10 one year or -- unless there's a major breach of some sort, we 11 can't get out of it. So, we're not going to approve it yet 12 until we can work on it a little bit more. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Couple questions, Sheriff. Number 14 one, the source of funding is -- is the commissary earnings, 15 which is essentially generated by the inmates themselves? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it's inmate money. It's 17 proceeds from the commissary, which by law has to be spent 18 back on the inmates, and then we also are required to 19 provide, you know, a law library type deal, so this is a way 20 that they pay for their own law library. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And this is not through the 22 hard-bound volumes, but rather through the -- the information 23 system that West provides -- West-Thomson provides? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, it's their software 25 group. We provide the computer and a secure location in the 2-23-09 36 1 jail, and then their program's downloaded into that computer. 2 That gives the inmates the access to the stuff they need to 3 research. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the amount of space you're 5 required to have available is considerably decreased, as 6 opposed to having all the hard-bound volumes out there that 7 you used to have to maintain? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The amount of space is 9 decreased, and the cost is decreased. Because you, being an 10 attorney, know what the cost is of the hard-bound books, and 11 we went away from the hardback books a number of years ago. 12 We've been using this, but now they've changed a lot of 13 stuff, and we're not sure at this point whether we'll go with 14 Westlaw or Lexis-Nexis. We're getting both of them on their 15 correctional site. But until we can get the details in the 16 contract worked out, I need to pull it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're going to bring it 18 back? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll bring it back. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Thank you, sir. Let's 21 take up Item 8, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 22 action to approve Phase 1 of Boerne Falls/Privilege Creek 23 Ranches and release the letter of escrow. Mr. Odom. Good 24 morning, sir. 25 MR. ODOM: Good morning, sir. Boerne 2-23-09 37 1 Falls-slash-Privilege Creek Ranches, it's -- Phase 1 has been 2 completed. The roads are going to be privately maintained. 3 At this time, we ask the Court to approve the Boerne 4 Falls/Privilege Creek Ranches, Phase 1, and release the 5 letter of escrow, G.F. Number 070721K, as in kilo, in the 6 amount of $349,082.53, that is to expire July the 24th, 2009. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on that 11 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 12 right hand. 13 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 14 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let the 18 record reflect that Commissioner Letz did not participate or 19 vote on the matter. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As usual. We've got to do 21 everything. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 9; consider, 23 discuss, and take appropriate action to name two private 24 roads per 911 guidelines, located in Precinct 3 and Precinct 25 4. 2-23-09 38 1 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The requested road name in 2 Precinct 3 is Barbarosa Trail North. This road is currently 3 unnamed. The location of this road is Cypress Creek to 4 Holekamp Road. The proposed Barbarosa Trail is off of 5 Holekamp Road. Requested road name change in 4 is Reata 6 Ridge Road Northwest. Both of these unnamed roads meet Kerr 7 911 guidelines, and at this time, we ask for your approval of 8 Barbarosa Trail North and Reata Ridge Northwest. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 13 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 18 to Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 19 determine what funds to use to pay for the costs of building 20 of a road and 20-count parking lot for Hill Country Community 21 M.H.M.R. Crisis Stabilization Unit. I put this back on the 22 agenda in order that we might determine the source of funds 23 for the approval of that item, which has previously been 24 given. Estimated cost for the project, Mr. Odom? 25 MR. ODOM: Somewhere in the -- around 10,000, but 2-23-09 39 1 it may go less than that, because I have a source of base 2 material that I have to screen that the City is letting us 3 use, so the only thing would be the oil and the aggregate, 4 which would be around $5,000. Ours is force accounting, so 5 therefore there's no cost unless there's a charge to the 6 mental health for time and equipment. But other than that, I 7 should be able to do a 20-count parking lot and that road 8 within my line items, which would be the emulsion line item 9 and the aggregate line item, and there should be savings. We 10 won't know until the 9th of March, or the first meeting in 11 March; we'll have our bids open and we'll have a better idea 12 of what our -- our funds will be left at that point. But I 13 feel quite confident that we would have enough to do that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: In your current budget? 15 MR. ODOM: In my current budget. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And that would be, then, the 17 source of funds of the emulsion and the trap rock line items? 18 MR. ODOM: Right. The base is something over -- up 19 Spur 100, and we'll have to screen out and use, which we've 20 been doing, and we have discussed that this morning in our 21 supervisor meeting, so that was a cost factor there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, all that says we don't need 23 to do anything, 'cause this is going to come out of your 24 current budget. 25 MR. ODOM: It will come out of my current budget 2-23-09 40 1 unless the Court has an objection to it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the City, I think, is -- 3 last time we talked about the City providing something for 4 us, doing some work for them, and this is kind of part of 5 that, isn't it? 6 MR. ODOM: Well, that's not what I had in mind, 7 but... (Laughter.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a step. 9 MR. ODOM: It is a step. It is a step. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Patience, patience. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many -- I'm not sure I 12 understand everything I know about this. The stabilization 13 unit is a new program out there, and there's how many beds? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Sixteen. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sixteen beds. And that is 16 for the entire M.H.M.R. cachement area, right? Those beds. 17 And if we -- we get somebody that's committed to this unit 18 over there, and we take a patient over there and it's full, 19 then we -- I'm not sure what Rusty does with that person any 20 more; if he just drops them off and lets M.H.M.R. take care 21 of their own business, or if he continues to go to Dallas or 22 Fort Worth or the next available bed in the M.H.M.R. system. 23 I don't -- I'm not sure what he does. But my point is, if 24 that thing is full and there is not a bed for Kerr County 25 citizens, what we're doing is, we're asking the citizens of 2-23-09 41 1 Kerr County, the taxpayers of Kerr County, to build a road 2 and a parking lot for folks that live somewhere else; Del 3 Rio, Uvalde, wherever the rest of the cachement area is. 4 That's not right, and it's not fair, and I'm opposed to this. 5 Plus it brings into question this issue of does -- is the -- 6 are these patients -- are they M.H.M.R.'s or are they Kerr 7 County's? And I understand that there is a knock-down, 8 drag-out in Austin over that issue. There was lots of 9 sheriffs up there last week talking about this, and so, you 10 know, we're asking the taxpayers of Kerr County to build a 11 road and a parking lot for people in other counties. It's 12 just -- it just doesn't seem right to me. Tell me where I'm 13 wrong. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that -- don't know that 15 you are wrong. The situation we have now is the current beds 16 that are being utilized on a temporary and interim basis at 17 Kerrville State Hospital have already been designated as 18 forensic beds on a permanent basis. That being the case, 19 without the crisis stabilization unit, there may not be 20 anyplace to carry Kerr County -- or anybody within that 21 cachement area, that 19-county cachement area. It -- it may 22 be totally unavailable for them to come to Kerr County at all 23 without that crisis stabilization unit. There is continuing 24 pressure, because of liability issues primarily in north 25 Texas, Dallas, for -- for an increase in these forensic beds, 2-23-09 42 1 and that's what's resulted in the designation of these beds 2 as being forensic beds. So, without the crisis stabilization 3 unit, we may not have any facility available for inpatient 4 admission in Kerr County at all in the -- in the very near 5 future without this crisis stabilization unit. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, was the -- is the 7 entire complement of beds at Kerrville State Hospital now 8 designated as forensic? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That is correct, on a permanent 10 basis. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The entire complement? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And when this issue came 14 before the Legislature, I guess it was for funding to build 15 this subordinate 16-bed unit, right? Was there a commitment 16 on the part of Kerr County to do the road and the parking lot 17 if the State committed the funds for the other -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Very early on, when the -- when the 19 bill was pending before the Legislature -- and Mr. Weden, who 20 is the operations officer with Hill Country Community 21 M.H.M.R., is here and probably has more details on that. 22 When -- when the concept was originally being vetted and 23 proposed in the Legislature, and the funding requested for 24 the rehab of a -- of a building there at Kerrville State 25 Hospital, they came to us at that time asking for Kerr 2-23-09 43 1 County's participation on the basis of building the roadway. 2 At that time, Leonard and I went out and looked, and at that 3 point in time they were looking at coming in off of Texas 4 Drive around a little lake or drainage impoundment out there, 5 which would have been a longer -- longer roadway. I think 6 Leonard had estimated material costs at $10,000 to 7 $12,000, -- 8 MR. ODOM: Something like that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if I recall. 10 MR. ODOM: Years ago. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Three years ago. 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Three or maybe more, a little bit 14 more. And the Court at that time suggested that we'd be 15 willing to participate. I brought the matter before the 16 Court, and until they got the funding for the M.H.M.R. 17 facility, we didn't know what was going to happen. But all 18 of this arose out of the action that happened in early 2005, 19 when those beds -- all the beds at Kerrville State Hospital 20 were designated forensic. And then Representative 21 Hilderbran, shortly after that, obtained an interim use from 22 the Department of State Health Services, I believe it's 23 called now, to utilize some of those beds out there for civil 24 commitment purposes. That's that interim basis that we've 25 been able to use that facility for civil commitments. 2-23-09 44 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm -- I'm all for the 2 crisis stabilization unit. That's a wonderful thing and, you 3 know, M.H.M.R.'s doing their job. Pretty simple. It would 4 make it -- you know, I can see the partnership if M.H.M.R. 5 would purchase the material and us do the work. I can see 6 that -- I can see that as a partnership. But us providing 7 the material and the labor, I -- that's not -- that's not a 8 partnership of any sort. We have -- we have all kinds of 9 private roads in the community, and when there's a bad rain 10 and somebody needs an ambulance, we have to send Road and 11 Bridge out there to fix the road so people can get in and 12 out, and here we want to do something for the state of Texas 13 that -- that -- well, I'm not going to say that; I'm going to 14 be nice about this. But, you know, it's a one-way street. 15 Kerr County is doing -- we're asking the taxpayers -- it's 16 not this Commissioners Court that -- out of the goodness of 17 our hearts. The taxpayers of this county are having to put 18 their hard-earned money down on the line for a state 19 function. M.H.M.R. needs to do this whole thing, or -- or 20 partnership with us; they provide the material and we do the 21 work. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, I would agree 23 with you -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see it any other 25 way. 2-23-09 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I would agree with you that the 2 State needs to be responsible for providing mental health 3 treatment facilities for the citizens of this state, those 4 that are not there by virtue of a criminal court order, but 5 rather law-abiding citizens or taxpaying citizens who have 6 mental health issues. That should be the case, and I 7 wholeheartedly agree with it. The bottom line is, they have 8 abandoned that responsibility, and as in so many other 9 instances, they have dropped that responsibility -- or the 10 cost of that responsibility into the laps of the local 11 taxpayers. And I'm -- I'm fearful that not having this 12 crisis stabilization unit -- and this one is a pilot. I'm 13 not aware of any other in the state at this point in time 14 that are up and operating. This is a pilot program for 15 community-based M.H.M.R. mental health services. Without 16 this, I think the Sheriff is going to be running one big, bad 17 taxi service all over the state unless and until we get the 18 Legislature to change the law that says somebody else has got 19 to do it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not talking about the 21 stabilization unit. I agree with you 100 percent. I'm glad 22 it's there. I'm talking about spending taxpayers' money on a 23 road. I'm not talking about sending Rusty all over the 24 state. You know, we talk about the State creating unfunded 25 mandates. We talk about that almost every week that rolls 2-23-09 46 1 around; everybody I know talks about unfunded mandates. This 2 is not even an unfunded mandate. We're just willing to go 3 out there and do something for -- for the State. So, you 4 know, I'm not going to argue about it or debate it any more. 5 I'm simply going to vote no and go on with life, and love 6 y'all and go have lunch with you, if you're buying. 7 (Laughter.) 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may comment, there's an 9 issue, and I brought it up at the last meeting, that I have. 10 My understanding, this stabilization unit is funded, period, 11 through the Legislature. You know, the issue is, what road 12 are they going to use, and how are they going to -- you know, 13 are they going to get stuck in there? So, the unit's going 14 to be there, period. The -- the big issue -- and we did get 15 an e-mail last week from Ms. Werlein, okay, who's head of 16 M.H.M.R., and I think Mr. Weden said in here -- my deal is, 17 neither my department nor the City of Kerrville, and we do it 18 jointly right now, can continue to afford to have to haul 19 patients all over the state of Texas, which is happening more 20 and more. And if you look at that code, say we haul them to 21 El Paso or Big Spring or wherever, and they're only kept 24 22 hours. Guess who has to pay for bringing them back? Kerr 23 County, not the City of Kerrville. The law actually says 24 Kerr County has to pay -- reimburse that state hospital up 25 there or whatever means it is to send them back down here, 2-23-09 47 1 and I think it's kind of wrong when we have a unit right 2 here. 3 My issue was with all of this, and over dealing 4 with the road and the County paying money, was unless we 5 could get guaranteed in that 19-county catchment area that 6 our citizens here that need that service are going to go 7 here, we're not going to be hauling patients all over the 8 state any more. Mr. Weden kind of alluded to that, that yes, 9 that's exactly what would happen. I have an e-mail, and I 10 would want to hold Ms. Werlein to that e-mail, so that even 11 if they're full, we will take them to this unit and drop them 12 off, and they will transport them after that. If that can 13 occur, then with what we've spent, just law enforcement-wise, 14 and the -- you know, the manpower we're taking off the 15 street -- 'cause I have to call in somebody and pay them 16 overtime when one goes; I don't have that kind of manpower. 17 If that can happen, then I think the County's saving money by 18 spending a little bit to build this road and parking area. 19 If that can't happen, then I'm -- I'm like Buster; I don't 20 think we should do it without all the other 19 counties also 21 pitching into it. Because, to me, the whole thing is whether 22 or not we can -- we can haul our patients there and not have 23 to haul them anywhere else. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How are we getting them in 25 and out of there now? 2-23-09 48 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're hauling them. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. I'm talking about 3 into this stabilization unit. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not open yet. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, it's not open? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not open. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: April 1. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, it's inaccessible right 9 now. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Somewhere around April 1 or 11 something like that is when it's going to open. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the target date. 13 MS. HARGIS: What precludes us from billing the 14 other 19 counties in the catchment area their pro rata share 15 of this road? I don't -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like we do everything else. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know whether anything 18 precludes it. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd rather have the guarantee 20 that we're going to get our patients in there. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you could do both. 22 MS. HARGIS: Huh? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you could do both. 24 Press for the guarantee, then send them all a prorated -- a 25 request for their prorated share. 2-23-09 49 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, couldn't we draft a pretty 2 simple interlocal agreement that -- for us to provide these 3 -- this funding, and for this work we get priority? Or -- 4 you know, I mean, isn't that something that's fairly simple, 5 possibly, to draft? Anyway, but it may not be simple to get 6 them to sign it. And -- but that would -- I mean, that would 7 solve the problem, seems to me. I mean, then we will be 8 getting something as Kerr County. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We would be guaranteed of a 10 service, and it would be kind of like an exchange, rather 11 than not getting a guarantee that we would get first chance. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's -- that's my issue. If 13 we're guaranteed service, that we can take them there and 14 save Kerr County all the -- the danger of hauling these -- we 15 all know what happened in San Antonio with the officer that 16 was transporting one that he had to shoot in the front seat 17 of the car, because they do have to be handled differently, 18 and the liability the county has to that when we're hauling 19 them all the way to Rusk or something. I think it -- it 20 would be very advantageous for the county to do it, if we can 21 get the guarantee that our patients from Kerr County are 22 going to that stabilization unit. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we can get that for 24 $5,000, that would be money well spent. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Extremely well spent. 2-23-09 50 1 MS. HARGIS: But we can still bill the other 2 counties if y'all wish after that's done, if y'all want to. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we get that, I wouldn't want 4 to bill them. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's pursue it. 6 It's not something you're going to have in time to either 7 approve or disapprove this court order, but it's something we 8 should pursue. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, and Leonard's not going 10 to start doing any work over there for -- when did you say? 11 April? When were you going to start? 12 MR. ODOM: The estimated time of opening was April, 13 so I was waiting till we clarified this, and then start. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could postpone this till 15 certainly the first meeting in March, see if we can get -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who pursues the commitment 17 for taking our patients? Would that be something Judge 18 Tinley does or something the County Attorney does? How do we 19 see that evolving? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Must be somebody in between 21 them over there. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff at the end of a 23 gun or what? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How it all starts? Well, it 25 precludes us from taking -- or how does it occur? 2-23-09 51 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, who's going to pick 2 up the initiative and run with it? That's really what I'm 3 asking. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To get the guarantee? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't have any problem. 7 Judge Tinley sits on their board. I have no problem also 8 talking to Ms. Werlein and that, and seeing if we can get it 9 with Rex's help. I -- you know, we've got e-mails and we 10 have the -- I tried to pin it down in the last Commissioners 11 Court; you do have the transcript of that, from Mr. Weden. 12 But, you know, I -- that's my only issue. As long as we have 13 that guarantee. I don't want to be hauling these people 14 everywhere. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if we can make 16 this move along. I would move approval of the agenda item as 17 presented, and urge the County Judge, the Sheriff, and the 18 district -- and the County Attorney to pursue a commitment 19 from M.H.M.R. to take Kerr County patients when brought to 20 their doorstep. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "Pursue" or "subject to"? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pursue. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be much happier with 24 "subject to." 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I understand that. 2-23-09 52 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. Do I hear a 2 second? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you state that again? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get the reporter to read it 5 back. 6 (The reporter read back the motion as follows:) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "Let me see 8 if we can make this move along. I would 9 move approval of the agenda item as 10 presented, and urge the County Judge, the 11 Sheriff, and the district -- and the 12 County Attorney to pursue a commitment 13 from M.H.M.R. to take Kerr County patients 14 when brought to their doorstep." 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If anybody wants to clean 16 that up, be my guest. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, of course they're 18 going to receive the patients if there's a bed. I mean -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there's a bed, there's 20 no issue. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But to receive them is the 23 key. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because once they receive 2-23-09 53 1 them, they have to deal with them. That keeps the Sheriff 2 from having to transport them. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The way I understand it. 5 I'll second your motion. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 7 Further question or discussion on the motion? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To accept them? 'Cause it's 9 actually once they accept them, then they're theirs, and we 10 don't transport any more. They have to. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure that that's 13 what that means at all. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My issue -- I can't go along 15 with it, because I think it's a -- it's the -- to pursue, 16 it's got to -- I mean, I have no problem with authorizing 17 Road and Bridge to do it right now, but to me, it's subject 18 to them having an agreement that they will receive them, not 19 that y'all are going to pursue. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with the "pursue" 21 thing. I mean, it really needs to be more nailed down, that 22 they will guarantee that they will take them. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you want to amend the 24 motion, amend it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll amend -- it's awful. Just 2-23-09 54 1 start over. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll withdraw my second. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see what the 4 amendment is coming up. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He withdrew it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But we have no second to the motion. 8 Do I hear a second to the motion? 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion dies for lack of a 11 second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 13 authorize Road and Bridge to do the work as outlined in the 14 agenda item, subject to the Sheriff and the County Attorney 15 and the County Judge working out an agreement with M.H. -- 16 M.H.M.R. Crisis Stabilization Unit that they will receive 17 Kerr County patients. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will second that for sure. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 20 Further question or discussion on that motion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- the incentive is, 22 it's their responsibility whether they transport them to 23 another location or house them at this location. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think if that's what 25 your -- if that's what you mean, you need to say that in the 2-23-09 55 1 motion. In other words, they're going to receive the person. 2 When you say your motion is that they receive the person, 3 they're going to receive the person. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll amend my motion to receive 5 them and house them. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or transport them to the -- a 7 proper location. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. Is 9 there a difference in this -- in the context of what we're 10 talking about between "receive" and "accept"? Somebody 11 answer that. 12 MR. EMERSON: All you have to do to clean your 13 motion up is change "receive" to "accept." 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll amend my motion to do 16 that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's acceptable to you? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is acceptable. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 22 second. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then I have another 24 question that will probably make it clear for me. Now, if 25 the City of Kerrville arrests somebody on the street and they 2-23-09 56 1 take them to your jail, and they take -- they pull in the 2 sallyport and they take the handcuffs off, whose person -- 3 whose -- it's not a patient. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're mine. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The prisoner belongs, then, 6 to Kerr County. You've received it, and Kerr County picks up 7 the entire tab. If that person needs to be transferred 8 somewhere, we're responsible. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct, to a point. 10 There are some -- some different issues when it's a criminal 11 offense. I mean, if they get them and take them to the 12 hospital and have a magistrate go over there, read them their 13 rights and do the commitment, they're mine at the hospital. 14 Doesn't matter whether they're at the jail or not. We have 15 to provide for them. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But my point is, they're no 17 longer City of Kerrville's prisoner. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And what we're doing 20 here is exactly the same thing. Once -- once we deliver -- 21 once you deliver a patient to M.H.M.R. and they -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Accept. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- accept that person, then 24 it's their patient. You're not responsible for taking it -- 25 taking that person anywhere. You're not -- we're not 2-23-09 57 1 responsible for anything. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Technically -- go ahead. 3 MR. EMERSON: Technically, he could be. The way 4 the statute's written is that once they accept a patient, 5 there's four -- four provided modes of transportation, and 6 only if the first three fail does the Sheriff come back in 7 for transport. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: After they're committed. 9 MR. EMERSON: But the Sheriff is the last resort 10 transport once they've accepted the patient. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. What we've been doing 12 now is, we've been the first resort of transport, even before 13 they're accepted. Okay? And -- and what I'm saying is we 14 shouldn't -- you know, there could be -- and this is what 15 we're trying to get around. The language -- and I'm 16 definitely not going to be an attorney and practicing or 17 anything else in this, but it does say that it's got to be a 18 -- an appropriate inpatient facility, okay? Now, if somebody 19 way up at Austin decides that this 16-bed stabilization unit, 20 even though we've got the guarantee from M.H.M.R. that 21 they're going to accept ours, but if somebody up in Austin 22 decides that this 16-bed stabilization unit is not the 23 nearest appropriate inpatient facility, I don't know where 24 that's going to leave us, other than transporting again, 25 'cause that's what's happened now. The commissioner of 2-23-09 58 1 M.H.M.R. or the State Health deal issued one the other day, 2 and that's what keeps us from going to the current 16 beds at 3 the State Hospital, because the commissioner issued one 4 saying if they're full, they are no longer the nearest 5 appropriate inpatient facility, and so now we're back to 6 transporting all over the state. If that were to happen with 7 this stabilization unit, I don't know where we're going to 8 be. 9 MR. EMERSON: The commissioner has the authority to 10 override whatever Ms. Werlein wants to do. If the 11 commissioner in Austin issues a decree that this facility is 12 -- is full and they're not going to accept anybody else, we 13 don't have any choice. She doesn't have any choice. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, but that's -- you know, 15 at least -- I mean, you can't predict that. You don't know 16 when that's going to occur, and it will occur at some point. 17 But -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- every time you take a 20 patient -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sixteen beds in 16 counties. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nineteen counties, 16 beds. 23 Normally they go on what they call diversion right now at 24 least two or three times a week. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's better than having no 2-23-09 59 1 beds in 19 counties. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My deal is if they can 3 transport them, 'cause the stabilization unit -- Judge, 4 correct me if I'm wrong -- it's for short-term, you know, 5 commitments. If they end up being -- turning into long-term 6 after their hearing, they're transported somewhere else. 7 They have to be, and M.H.M.R. or the State Hospital has to do 8 that transport. Unless they're just not -- it's only for 9 short-term commitments, is what these are, so they're moving 10 through those beds pretty rapidly. And I think that they can 11 pretty well guarantee us that we're going to get first call 12 on those beds, and they can move the other one out to a 13 different location. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm glad y'all all 15 feel better about that. I'm going to vote no because of the 16 taxpayer issue. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 18 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 19 your right hand. 20 (Commissioners Williams, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 21 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I oppose. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. Let's 25 go to Item 12 -- excuse me, Item 11. Consider, discuss, and 2-23-09 60 1 take appropriate action to determine whether or not a policy 2 change is needed in the Facilities Use policy for the Hill 3 Country Youth Exhibit Center to include all nonprofits listed 4 under 501(c) section of the I.R.S. Code. This was a 5 carry-over from the last meeting and some issues that came up 6 with -- I believe we had a 501(c)(3), which is pretty much a 7 no-brainer; then we had a (c)(7), I think, that came up, and 8 the question was, what about those in between? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many are there? One 10 through 10 or something? Or -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll have to ask somebody that 12 knows more about the I.R.S. Code than I do. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least 1 through 7. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who would that be? 15 MS. HARGIS: There's more -- 16 MR. EMERSON: Not me. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney has disclaimed. 18 MS. HARGIS: There's more than eight. I think 19 there -- I don't know if there's more than eight at this 20 point; I haven't looked at the current one, but there's at 21 least eight. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like we're not ready to 23 proceed with this. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, my view is that I don't 25 have a problem with expanding it, but I just think we need to 2-23-09 61 1 have criteria, and they need to be able to prove to us -- 2 that means we're going to have to make some judgment calls as 3 to who's bona fide for free use or not. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is 1 through 8 -- are they 5 nonprofit -- all of those people nonprofit? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to ask a 7 similar question. Can we get identified for us what 1 8 through 8 is? 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes. Let me print the code for you, 10 and I'll get it for you for next time. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And are we using part of the 12 criteria here, or then those -- those businesses then 13 contribute something to the community? Is that part of our 14 deal, too? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'd have a better 16 opportunity to figure that out if we knew what the -- exactly 17 what 1 through 8 was. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the criteria we kind of 20 have now, is that they have to be -- I don't know. 21 "Contributes" is not in there, but there has to be -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Benefit. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- benefit to the community, 24 and they have to be at least a local branch. Or if it's a 25 national branch, a local branch has to be here that's 2-23-09 62 1 predominantly being used by... 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nonprofit, and what was your 3 word? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Benefit. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Benefit. So, those two 6 things would be okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The current policy, Commissioner, I 8 believe, says 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(7). 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Six. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Six, are the ones that are eligible, 11 which does not give us the discretion to -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't we just add to it, if 13 they don't fall in these two categories -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think the issue is whether or 15 not those that are listed under 501(c), one through however 16 many there are, -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that we have the ability to grant 19 authorization for each individual organization, irrespective 20 of whether they're 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8, to be added to 21 the list to receive that discount. And I think that's really 22 the issue. But I think, like Commissioner Williams says, 23 what we really need to do -- what are the criteria for 1 24 through 8, or however many there are? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There may be one other 2-23-09 63 1 little caveat here. I'm kind of asking the Auditor this. In 2 addition to the -- the federal code, 501(c) code, that goes 1 3 through 8, there's also a state -- the ability for an 4 organization to get a state not-for-profit status; is that 5 correct? 6 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And as such, they may not 8 necessarily qualify for any of the 1 through 8. 9 MS. HARGIS: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we'd like to know about 11 that. 12 MS. HARGIS: They have to apply to I.R.S. for that, 13 and it does not guarantee -- there's, like, a two- to 14 three-year waiting period on most of them. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's going to provide this 16 list? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The County Auditor's going 18 to do that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, let's move on, if we 20 might, then, and go to Item 12; consider, discuss, and take 21 appropriate action authorizing application for 2009-2010 22 Community Development Block Grant/Colonias funding for 23 O.S.S.F. replacement of failing systems for low-income 24 homeowners living in designated areas of the county where 25 public sewer is not available. Commissioner Williams? 2-23-09 64 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I placed 2 this on the agenda because I had two very interesting phone 3 calls this past week. One of them Commissioner Oehler knows 4 about, probably, because it was a phone call from the 5 Director of Public Works at the City, talking to some of the 6 things that he and I have had near and dear to our hearts and 7 trying to achieve. The bottom line is that that phone call 8 advised me -- and I think, if I'm not mistaken, Bruce, you 9 had a similar phone call before I did? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably identical to yours. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. In which the City 12 says, you know, those are all great ideas, guys, but we don't 13 have the capacity through our lift stations to do what you 14 want to do. Not capacity in the treatment center -- in the 15 treatment facility; they have great capacity there. They're 16 saying to us that in the case of coming in from the west, 17 where Commissioner Oehler was talking about using the line 18 that's going to be abandoned that was put in by the Ingram 19 school system originally, the stubs at Guadalupe R.V. Park, 20 and the initiative that we were going to do to pick up where 21 the City did not finish Blue Ridge/Ocaso, and maybe take on 22 the industrial park as well, he's saying that there are 2 23 lift stations that service that park, and that those lift 24 stations are maxed, and therefore it can't take any more flow 25 through the pipes to move it through to the treatment 2-23-09 65 1 facility. 2 Secondly, in that same context, he says with regard 3 to what we were proposing to do from -- for our Kerrville 4 South and the Phase 5, right? We only have funding for Phase 5 4, and that's okay. For Phase 5, in which we would clean -- 6 finish cleaning up some areas down there and possibly hook up 7 that 52-unit apartment complex that's all on septics on 8 Ranchero Road, he's saying the same thing applies there. We 9 don't have enough capacity to get that excess -- the extra 10 flow through what we always thought was the Rolling Green 11 lift station, but he calls it now the Birkdale lift station, 12 on to the Legion lift station, which takes it to its final 13 hop over to the treatment facility. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One of them is the -- it's 15 the one here on Jefferson. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, Jefferson Street 17 coming in on the west. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jefferson line is sub-sized 19 beyond that point to carry more flow, and the lift station is 20 -- is old. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jefferson and one a little 22 further on the -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Knapp Road. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Knapp Road, okay. The 25 second phone call -- 2-23-09 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go ahead. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The second phone call was 3 kind of coincidental, and that that was from the Grantworks 4 folks, who always keep their eyes out for funding 5 opportunities to do certain things, and that was from Eric 6 Hartzell, who said that there is a program which they have 7 initiated in -- Jody, did all that other material -- did we 8 make copies of that so I can give it to the Court? We 9 didn't, did we? Okay. You'll just have to take my word for 10 it, that there is a program available which they have put 11 into place in several counties around us, hill country-type 12 counties, the counties to the south of us, where you can get 13 some C.D.B.G. or colonias funding to replace septics for 14 people who are low to moderate income, who do not have the -- 15 have the wherewithal to replace a failing or 16 out-of-compliance septic system. And I said, well, in areas 17 where public sewer doesn't exist? He said yeah. Are we 18 talking about areas where we're planning public sewer? He 19 said, well, those would be excluded. So, if we had areas in 20 the county where people who have low to moderate income, and 21 they have a problem and they can't afford to replace or 22 repair their system, these funds could be made available for 23 that purpose, and that's the purpose of this agenda item. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- are those areas 25 considered colonias? 2-23-09 67 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've already identified 2 some that were colonias, and, yes, it would include those 3 that have already been pre -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the issue with the 5 lift station? Pump's not big enough? Pipe's not big enough? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess, for certain, 7 it's the pump. Now, there may be some pipe issues as well, 8 but I think that the more relevant question is, when are you 9 going to fix it? And the answer is, well, that could be five 10 to 15 years out before we fix it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Can we build a road and 12 a parking lot? Would that help? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Over or near? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't matter, just out 15 somewhere. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I had a discussion with Guy 17 Overby about this issue. That's somewhat related to this. 18 That's why we got the phone calls. But, you know, he -- I 19 think he's prepared to go -- go to the -- go to the City and 20 say, look, you know, you don't have five or ten years to fix 21 this infrastructure problem. You have some obligations that 22 you've already contracted for in the city of Ingram, and 23 there's other areas that need to be tied on, and some of them 24 I believe have already been mentioned that don't have city 25 sewer in some instances, and so this will be a -- this will 2-23-09 68 1 be one way to at least have some funding for some people that 2 flat can't afford to fix the problem. I don't -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's the whole 4 purpose of it. I did ask him, however, Commissioner, did -- 5 do your calculations in terms of flow through these lift 6 stations include the anticipated flow from the city of Ingram 7 on its sewer system? And he said it did. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what -- but this agenda 10 item doesn't -- is only for areas where there is not, or not 11 planned to be, public sewer? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This doesn't count all the lift 14 stations. This is just other. Who does the work? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's contracted out. Once 16 you've identified and you've vetted the candidates, okay, 17 through our Environmental Health Department, probably, and 18 so-and-so is eligible, right, they would contract with an 19 installer who would do a licensed system, and then that's 20 funded directly through the grant. It's administered by 21 Grantworks. It's not coming through us in terms of the 22 funding. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I have a pretty big 24 concern about us signing off on dollars going with a local 25 installer installing properly for individuals. We're talking 2-23-09 69 1 about -- that's a pretty -- I mean, we have some very good 2 installers, and there are some not-so-good installers around 3 the county. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I can go to 5 the heart of your question. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I have a concern that 7 that's being done. I can see this being viewed as a cash cow 8 for some people that aren't real reputable. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think that's a 10 valid concern. But our Environmental Health Department would 11 be involved in identifying and permitting and inspecting, and 12 our match or quid pro quo would be to waive those inspection 13 fees, okay? I meant to mention that and I just got around to 14 it. So, our Environmental Health people -- if we don't sign 15 off and it's not licensed and it's not inspected and so 16 forth, that installer's not going to get paid. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're -- we're talking 18 about someone out in the -- somewhere that has a failed 19 septic tank, an old failed septic tank, and this government 20 money helps them replace that septic tank with a system 21 that's approved by the state and Kerr County, upgraded and -- 22 and all that. I've got 900 other questions that I won't ask 23 at this time, but if we go down this road, I've got some 24 really serious questions. As an example, are we going to 25 promote spraying? The aerobic systems? Are we promoting 2-23-09 70 1 that? Or are we going to suggest -- how does all that work, 2 if Kerr County's involved in that -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- selection? That's for 5 later on, though, Bill. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not today. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I don't think we're 9 going to promote anything, but that's a good question. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- but, I mean, I 11 think it's an excellent question, because what happens is -- 12 which Ray isn't here, but I think Bruce may know, but my 13 understanding is that we just put the -- it's up to the 14 installer to install what they want to install. We can't 15 tell them what to install. And if they choose to do this, 16 which is a -- a monthly maintenance fee then coming in to 17 them, then we're getting -- we're helping these private 18 businesses put -- get the money. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How would that -- how would 20 this differ from what we currently do? If a person lives in 21 a rocky area and doesn't have the soil to support a -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Conventional. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- a drainfield, doesn't -- 24 doesn't our Environmental Health people -- aren't they aware 25 of that? And in terms of what the recommendation is that 2-23-09 71 1 they would accept for engineering for proper systems? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think they do, and it all 3 has to be engineered, anyway. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: According to the soil, 5 right. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Has to be -- there has to -- 7 designers have to provide a design based on soil. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But designers tend to promote 9 -- historically, designers -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- have promoted systems that 12 are aerobic so they can get a monthly maintenance fee, when 13 there are other systems out there that are never even 14 presented to the public. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the point. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have encouraged 17 Environmental Health to pursue more of the conventional and 18 the -- the non-mechanical systems wherever possible, give 19 that as an alternative, even if they have to spend more to do 20 that. It would be up to the owner to make that decision. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you can -- and if you're 23 willing to spend enough money to haul in soil, you can put in 24 a conventional system or -- or a bona fide conventional 25 system -- 2-23-09 72 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anywhere. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- where you don't have any 3 pumps and aerators and chlorine and all that stuff. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't remind me. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I can shorten 6 the discussion a little bit by saying this is only to 7 authorize the application. If there are certain things about 8 the program that we don't like, once we get past the 9 application stage, we can back away from it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll go along, but I'm less -- 11 I'm less enthusiastic about this than anything else you've 12 ever brought to us. (Laughter.) The whole category -- in 13 this whole area. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've spent more time on 15 septic tanks today than we have on the mental health of our 16 community. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The literal translation of 18 what Commissioner Letz said was I'm losing stature here. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You better make a motion. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we authorize the 21 application as -- as defined in the agenda item. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it, for right now. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second -- an 24 unenthusiastic second. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2-23-09 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 2 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go 8 ahead and do Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate 9 action on census PSAP data and maps as prepared by AACOG for 10 Kerr County. Commissioner Williams? PSAP, of course, does 11 not mean the traditional Public Safety Answering Point, as in 12 911 terminology. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. There's another 14 terminology for that, Judge, if I can get this up on the 15 front of my computer screen here. The Court remembers that 16 we did contract with AACOG to do this census PSAP data 17 mapping for Kerr County, and in which what we're trying to do 18 is establish census blocks. And PSAP is called -- let's see, 19 what's it called? Census -- however it is; I can't remember 20 what it is. Census blocks and groups within the county. And 21 they brought -- AACOG brought down the preliminary maps, 22 which Judge Tinley and I reviewed with -- with Mr. Kruse, who 23 did this work, and they are a part of your backup. Now -- 24 Jody, we don't have the big ones, do we? 25 MS. GRINSTEAD: The big what? I'm sorry. 2-23-09 74 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Big maps, from the -- that 2 came with Mr. Kruse's visit the other day. We didn't get those 3 from the Appraisal District? Because what we have here, all 4 it does is identify the blocks. Doesn't necessarily identify 5 the tracts. The census tract and block, which you can see by 6 looking at the map, that's on the third page of your backup, 7 the agenda item, how the numbers have been arranged so that 8 they do comply. The large block on the top, Kerr County, 9 2,405 in that block group in the western part of the county, 10 and 804 and 1,856. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, is -- what is 2,405? 12 That's the number of -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: People? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- people? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Estimated. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Estimated in that area. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That live in that area? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Registered voters, over 18? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Bodies. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: People? Humans beings? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Human beings. Bodies, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Children included? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2-23-09 75 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my understanding. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There we go. Thank you, 4 Jody. You're going to have to help me out here, Judge. You 5 were in this discussion, too. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: They've got some guidelines about, 7 you know, how many should be in a tract and how many should 8 be in a block, and and as the -- the larger ones grow, then 9 you've got to reallocate or chop them up into smaller pieces. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask you a question? 11 How are those blocks established, these that we're looking at 12 here? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Preliminarily, they were established 14 by the census people at AACOG. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And all these little dots that are 17 on this map that you see are what they have identified as new 18 believed to be dwelling structures since the last census, and 19 they have established estimates of the populations within 20 those groups. And as a result of some of the growth, 21 Commissioner Williams and I worked with the gentleman from 22 AACOG that's in charge of this for Kerr County, to cut the 23 pie again, as it were, in a couple of different instances. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I can help 25 you with the numbers. There are two categories here. You 2-23-09 76 1 have census tracts and block groups. Block groups are a 2 minimum of 600 persons, with a maximum of 3,000. These are 3 numbers set by the Census Bureau. Census tracts, the larger, 4 are a minimum of 1,200 persons and maximum of 8,000 people. 5 So, what you have to do in these cases is make certain that 6 you're within those parameters of census tracts and block 7 group splits. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We cut one, see, because it's 9 approaching 6,000 here. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question for somebody. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do they come up with this 13 data, and how recent is it? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They got it off of the Appraisal 15 District, primarily. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And it's fairly current, according 18 to the information they provided to us. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's also fairly inaccurate in 20 rural areas. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that well could be. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why? Because I have more 23 growth than you do? Is that your complaint? I've never in 24 my life seen anything like this. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What I'm looking at, I'm just 2-23-09 77 1 looking at Lane Valley Road that I obviously drive a lot. 2 There are at least three new residences that aren't shown on 3 that road, and I don't know if it's coming from the appraisal 4 reports. That might be part of the problem, that Kendall 5 County has been the primary appraiser for the eastern part of 6 the county, though that changed this year. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This came from Appraisal 8 District to AACOG. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But it's -- I mean, 10 it's -- and there's -- they have a whole subdivision missing, 11 The Reserve, which has ten homes in it. That's just Falling 12 Water there, and Falling Water has more than that now. I 13 just see -- you know, I don't think we need to be relying 14 much on this, at least in the eastern part of the county, 15 because there's a lot of residences that I know that aren't 16 on here. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the recutting of the pie, as 18 it were, that Commissioner Williams and I participated in, 19 one of them was out in the Ingram and northwest of Ingram 20 area. The other was in the Kerrville South area, where it 21 was recommended that -- that we add new division lines 22 because of the -- the maximum number being approached for a 23 block. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking at this. This just 25 doesn't make sense. Right here in my precinct also, Sidney 2-23-09 78 1 Baker, right next to Walmart, they have probably 50 homes 2 being built right up there off Earl Garrett, between Walmart 3 and the courthouse -- or the old Walmart and the courthouse, 4 and no homes have been built up there in the last ten years. 5 Not even one home built. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Between Walmart and the 7 courthouse? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The old Walmart. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Up here. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tractor Supply. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Between Tractor Supply and the 12 courthouse. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay, the old Walmart. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right in there. Now, there's 15 -- now, over there by Schreiner, there's a few others there 16 in that little subdivision that's north of Schreiner, but not 17 that number. And you go out -- the same thing out there in 18 the Coronado area. I mean, there's some new homes that have 19 been built, new developments, I guess, that Andy Phillips is 20 working on, but not like they're showing there. That area's 21 pretty established. I just -- before we start making 22 decisions, I'd like to see this data looked at a little 23 closer. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we can certainly tell 25 them that. 2-23-09 79 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless I'm looking at the map 2 wrong, that's how I would see some of those areas. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, the flat -- final 4 numbers are going to be determined from the actual census 5 activity -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- itself. This is preliminary 8 information from the Appraisal District, solely for the 9 purpose of trying to establish tracts and blocks within those 10 tracts, so that -- or within the guidelines for the purpose 11 of taking the census itself. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These tract and block 13 numbers have to -- are intended to total up to what the Texas 14 State Data Center says is our population, or estimated 15 population right now, okay? He had originally -- his 16 original estimate was that our population was at 51,000 17 people. We said we didn't think we were that high. We 18 doublechecked with the State Demographer's office one more 19 time, and the data center says that right now, we are -- as 20 of July 1st, 2007, which may put some perspective to the 21 Commissioner, that as of July 1, 2007, Kerr County's 22 estimated population was 47,504. Okay? So, we've got two 23 years since that for whatever growth we've had, and we still 24 have the remainder of this year before we get into the actual 25 census again. So, it's your call if you think the numbers 2-23-09 80 1 are not correct, but the block -- the block numbers and the 2 tract numbers are geared to come into 47,504. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just looking at this, between 4 Harper Road and Sidney Baker, and from Main Street to the 5 north, which is this area right here, there must be 100 homes 6 right there, and I'd be surprised if there's five. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Brand new. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brand-new homes. I mean, it's 9 just not right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 11 Bill, what is -- are we -- are we expecting AACOG to go -- 12 take further steps and them eventually do the census for Kerr 13 County? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no, no, no. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or are we -- is this -- are 16 we preparing to go and hire a law firm and then -- and 17 provide this as part of that information for them? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- that's what we're 20 doing? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. This is kind of base 22 information. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we can't hire a law 24 firm and provide them with inaccurate information. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All we can do is say this 2-23-09 81 1 is what we've got. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I'd like to go back to 3 the Appraisal District and have them relook at these areas; 4 draw some circles and say, "Tell us the addresses of the new 5 homes right here." 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, we can certainly -- 7 tell you what I'll be happy to do, is see if we can get David 8 Dunn here and arrange for each Commissioner to come in and 9 take a look at it at that time with him, and spend the 10 necessary time and get his return. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be glad to. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause if anybody knows where 14 the growth is, I think it's us. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, exactly. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We know. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll do that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that worthy of a 19 workshop, or -- you know. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, yeah, maybe a 21 workshop. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May be more efficient from his 23 standpoint. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be a better use of 25 his time; I don't know. 2-23-09 82 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, a workshop. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Could go to your house in the 3 evening to eat fried chicken. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could. Your house. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sure. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get back to him, see 7 if we can set up either a workshop or individual time blocks 8 when Commissioners can come talk to him. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we take about a 10 15-minute recess, folks. 11 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 14 we might. Let's go to Item 14; consider, discuss, and take 15 appropriate action to set the fee paid to jurors as 16 reimbursement. Senate Bill 560 from the 80th regular session 17 has once again rewritten the Government Code 61.001 that 18 defines reimbursement for jury service. In compliance with 19 Senate Bill 560, a new order needs to be entered to set the 20 fee paid to jurors as reimbursement effective April 1, 2009. 21 Ms. Uecker? Why do they call it reimbursement, as opposed to 22 juror pay? 23 MS. UECKER: I don't know, but they do. I didn't 24 write it; I just read it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to blame it on you; you're 2-23-09 83 1 the one that keeps bringing it back here. 2 MS. UECKER: What I'm asking is, if you look on the 3 second page of the agenda request, it's $10 per day for the 4 first day the person is in attendance in court and in 5 response to a jury summons. $30 -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before they have been 7 selected to serve? 8 MS. UECKER: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I'll 9 explain all that in a minute. $30 for the first day a jury 10 -- a juror reports and is actually selected and sworn to a 11 jury panel, whether or not testimony is heard. And then $40 12 for the second day and each additional day of service, 13 whether or not the prospective juror is selected as a panel. 14 Now, the $10, the reason I'm asking for that is, everybody 15 knows by now how long I've been here, and that's 40 years. 16 Forty years ago, the reimbursement or the pay for a juror to 17 report was $6. It's still $6, so that's why I'm asking for 18 that to go to 10. Now, on the $30, that'll take a little bit 19 more explaining, because -- and this is really beneficial 20 more even in County Court at Law and in your court, and even 21 in J.P. courts, and we've had some cases just recently where 22 this has been a problem, too. If we call a juror -- a jury 23 panel in on Monday, they're selected, they start testimony, 24 and we've had a couple of them that have worked until 25 11 o'clock at night, reached a verdict. We paid them $6. 2-23-09 84 1 So, what the $30 does is it gives those folks that sit there 2 all day long on the first day of jury selection and testimony 3 at least $30 for their service. Now, $40, that's -- you 4 know, I can't -- we can't do anything about that. That's 5 what the statute says you have to reimburse a juror, $40. 6 Even if -- let's say we have a case that it takes several 7 days to even select. Even the second day of voir dire, that 8 whole panel gets $40. So, that's why we try to stay as long 9 as we can to go ahead and get a jury selected on the first 10 day. First of all, our current order doesn't comply with the 11 new 61.001. And I kind of tried to figure it out. Paying 12 the jurors $6 -- $10 instead of $6 to report is -- will be 13 about -- can be as much as a $5,000 a year impact on the 14 budget. Of course, the good news is, I anticipate that after 15 we get the jury docket, especially in criminal cases, down a 16 little bit -- as y'all know, the jail population is 17 decreasing. We've got a new D.A. that's working real hard. 18 We got a new District Judge that's working real hard to get 19 these cases done. We've had a lot of jury trials. And what 20 I anticipate is that with -- and Amos is here; I'm glad he 21 is, our new D.A., that he's got this track file docket that 22 we're going to start pretty soon, that I suspect will greatly 23 reduce the number of jurors that we're calling. The other 24 good news is, I'm going to try to call less jurors, because 25 we've been having to call 350 just to get, you know, enough 2-23-09 85 1 to come in so that we can select jurors. My new judge has 2 said -- which hasn't been done before; I've been trying to 3 get this done, is my new judge has said, "I want them to go 4 through the contempt process." Because when we call in a 5 panel, the jurors don't show up. The word is out there on 6 the street, "Don't go. They're not going to do anything 7 anyway." The one time that I remember that we actually did 8 it, and we did a press release on contempt to jurors, we 9 pulled jurors in here, and I think we only actually fined two 10 of them, but for about a year after that, we had more jurors 11 than we knew what to do with. So, the word gets out there. 12 So, Judge Williams now has said, "Yeah, we need to do the 13 contempt process." So, I think with all of this said and 14 done, I think it's going to be -- impact is not going to be 15 as bad as maybe we think it's going to be. And, you know, 16 people take off of work, and for $6, if they stay here all 17 day, I mean, that -- and I've approved -- I mean, both 18 District Judges think it's a good idea, and I just talked to 19 Amos about it. He thinks it's a good idea. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a comment? 21 MR. EMERSON: I do. And I don't want to put a fly 22 in Linda's ointment, but since Judge Williams and Bruce Curry 23 have kicked a bunch of cases to us to try state jail 24 felonies, and it looks like, from talking to the attorneys, 25 most of them are -- are bent on going to trial, that's going 2-23-09 86 1 to increase the number of jurors a little bit. I mean, it 2 may not be more than it is now, but -- 3 MS. UECKER: Yes, usually it will, but that's also 4 where the $30 is going to help you, because you're probably 5 going to be -- considering the type of cases they are, 6 they're going to last a little bit longer than your normal 7 misdemeanor, so they may be here till 11:00 or 10 o'clock at 8 night, and I think $30 is fair for that full day's service. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does this funding come from a 10 designated fund, or does it come out of the general fund? 11 MS. UECKER: Well, it goes -- it comes out of 12 general fund, but we collect a -- a jury fee on criminal and 13 on civil. A party pays a $30 jury fee. Of course, that 14 doesn't cover it at all, but we do collect, I think, a jury 15 fee on criminal. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But those fees go into the 17 general fund where you -- 18 MS. UECKER: General fund. Now, on the $40, for 19 every $40 we pay, the State reimburses us $34 of that $40, so 20 that 40 only costs us actually 6. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to the $6. Why don't 22 you have -- instead of the 30, why don't you have a 40 there 23 as well? 24 MS. UECKER: That's up to you. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand that, but 2-23-09 87 1 I mean, I don't understand -- 2 MS. UECKER: You want me to tell you why I made it 3 30? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 MS. UECKER: Because every month, we do -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're from Johnson City, 7 number one. 8 MS. UECKER: I'm the -- Sheriff Milton Jung used to 9 call me the Johnson City Flash. The reason I did that is to 10 make it easier to -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 MS. UECKER: -- make the reports to the state, 13 because otherwise, it's going to take us a while to determine 14 which of those 40's -- if they were both 40, we can collect 15 reimbursements from the State on the 40's that were paid for 16 the second day, but not the 40's for this. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long will it be before 19 some wizened juror decides that the literal interpretation of 20 "A" would be the combination of (1) and (2), and get 40 21 anyhow? 22 MS. UECKER: Well, the order says -- if you'll look 23 at that second page, it says Number A(1), and then at the end 24 of (1), it says "or." 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 2-23-09 88 1 MS. UECKER: (2), $30. So, on the first day you're 2 either going to get paid 10 or you're going to get paid 30, 3 not both. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. 5 MS. UECKER: Yes, sir? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Say a panel's brought in, and this 7 is fairly common in Judge Brown's court, and he's apt to 8 select two or three juries in one day and then give them 9 report-back days, which are not necessarily consecutive. And 10 they may not be sworn. They're selected, but they're not 11 sworn. They don't qualify, then, for the $30? 12 MS. UECKER: That's right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Or would they? 14 MS. UECKER: That's right, because the order would 15 read $30 if they're -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Selected and sworn. 17 MS. UECKER: -- selected and sworn. So, if he does 18 that, then when he brings them in the second day, they're 19 going to get 40 anyway, see, 'cause that's already their 20 second day. That automatically -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That doesn't have to be consecutive? 22 MS. UECKER: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question, I guess, goes to 25 the $30. I hear a lot of instances where it's kind of -- may 2-23-09 89 1 not be sworn, but they're almost -- I mean, they've been here 2 the better part of the day; they come -- go to lunch, come 3 back, and then at the last minute, plea bargain's accepted 4 and they're -- they go home. To me, those people ought to 5 get more money than someone who just shows up and gets 6 dismissed right away. I mean, they spent -- 7 MS. UECKER: I don't know how you would do that. 8 That would be a bookkeeping nightmare. And that's why I'm 9 asking for 10, just for that reason. That -- you know, that 10 I think they are -- I mean, they can't even drive to the 11 courthouse for $6 any more, much less drive and have lunch. 12 They can't on 10 either, but -- and if y'all want to go 13 higher, if you want to make that 15, that's fine with me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm fine. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's kidding. 17 MS. UECKER: He's kidding? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll -- do we need to approve 20 this? Accept it? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's talk about funding, or 22 impact on the present budget right quick. What is it doing 23 to us right now? 24 MS. UECKER: Well, in doing some calculating, it 25 probably is going to impact us a little bit this year. I 2-23-09 90 1 think -- you know, funds have been set aside to pay the 2 jurors, and I think we're fine with that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 4 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We increase from 6 to 10, 6 and then the 40's a new number? 7 MS. UECKER: No, we've been doing 40. We've 8 already budgeted for the 40. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's budgeted, and the 10 30 is budgeted? 11 MS. UECKER: Plus we get -- and in district court, 12 we -- because of the number of jury trials that we've been 13 having, and hopefully that'll reduce, I mean, we've been 14 getting as much as $3,000 to $5,000 a month back from the 15 State. That goes back into that jury fund. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That goes back into that 17 fund? 18 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there's no budget impact 21 dollar-wise this year? I mean, no impact -- 22 MS. UECKER: There will be some, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you have enough money in 24 the budget to cover it? 25 MS. UECKER: I think -- yeah, I think we're okay. 2-23-09 91 1 When I looked at that, the only impact is going to be the 2 10 -- the $10, increasing from $6 to $10. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 4 accept the recommendation of District Clerk for juror 5 reimbursement as presented, and cancel all previous orders 6 relating to same. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 9 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 10 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I would 15 note that we have an 11 o'clock timed item, Item 16, update 16 on Tyler Technologies issues. That was requested by the Tax 17 Assessor. The Tax Assessor is ill today and asked that that 18 item be passed. We'll go to Item 15; consider, discuss, and 19 take appropriate action on request to approve the Texas 20 Electronic Framework Standard Service Level Agreement, and 21 authorize County Judge to sign the agreement. What does this 22 really involve? 23 MS. UECKER: Well, this is actually -- this is the 24 local rules for district and county courts for electronic 25 filing that has to be approved by the Supreme Court. All of 2-23-09 92 1 our judges had to sign it, including Judge Tinley, and I have 2 already submitted that to the Supreme Court for approval. 3 Now, this agreement that you're looking at is the agreement 4 between Bearing Point, which is the State's service provider 5 for e-filing, and the county. This is the standard agreement 6 for services, fees -- let's see, the approval. You know, how 7 -- how we're going to get paid, what we're going to get paid. 8 And right now, what they're proposing is -- of course, 9 Bearing Point gets $4 for every document that they, you know, 10 run through their system, and then we'll get $2 for every 11 document. The bottom line is, is we're not going to have 12 that much e-filing, especially not from locals, not for a 13 while. Where it's really going to come in handy, and it's 14 going to take, you know, a year or so to really get it going, 15 is so that the Houston lawyers, the San Antonio lawyers, the 16 Dallas lawyers, the out-of-state lawyers know that they can 17 e-file to us and they don't have to overnight it, drive it or 18 whatever. 19 Now, the reason I'm doing this now is because my 20 ultimate goal -- and I've met with Keith Hottle, who is the 21 clerk of the Fourth Court of Appeals. To be able to submit 22 our transcripts on appeal by e-filing, you know, we're 23 talking boxes and boxes and boxes of documents, a transcript, 24 and the copy of it that has to go to be able to do that. And 25 when I talked to Keith last week, and it's just going to be 2-23-09 93 1 for civil cases for a while, until the Supreme Court okays 2 it. The project is called TAMES, T-A-M-E-S; it's the Texas 3 Electronic Management for Appellate System, something like 4 that. But they want to use Kerr County, and I have agreed to 5 do that as kind of a test project for small counties. 6 They're doing a large and a -- and Keith -- Keith is talking 7 with the Supreme Court right now, and they like the idea of 8 using our county, because for our county, we are, you know, 9 more up to speed electronically than most counties our size, 10 so we'll probably be the test site for that. But to get 11 there, we have to do this first, and it's not going to cost 12 us anything to do this. We've got a couple of meetings set 13 up with John and the folks from the Fourth Court of Appeals, 14 and the -- and the TAMES folks, in addition to the -- the 15 electronic fingerprint thing, too. Anyway, that's where I 16 want to go ultimately. This would also allow the court 17 reporter to submit their statement of facts and briefs on any 18 cases to the -- to the Fourth Court. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What impact does this have on our 20 I.T. -- existing I.T. system? 21 MS. UECKER: Once we get it set up, there shouldn't 22 be any, I don't think. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, there's the integration 24 piece, but that's it, between the contractor and the software 25 vendor. 2-23-09 94 1 MS. UECKER: Yeah. Yeah, that's between Bearing 2 Point and the Software Group. They've been trying to get me 3 to do e-filing, and I have said all along, until -- you know, 4 before, the e-filing system was I e-mail it to you, you print 5 it out, you punch holes in it, you file it -- you put it in 6 the file. Well, that's not any different than what -- you 7 either bring it in -- I mean, that's more work for us. We'd 8 become a print shop. And I -- and I told them, I said, until 9 that document comes in, populates my data fields, and its 10 image goes directly to the case -- the software system, then, 11 you know, we're not doing it. Kerr County's not 12 participating, because I'm not going to ask for more staff 13 just to make e-filing easy for you. So, we're at that point 14 now where, since we've gone to Odyssey, we're going to be 15 able to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- is this just you, 17 or are there -- are there other clerks, other people -- 18 MS. UECKER: This goes for -- Jannett can do the 19 same thing; J.P.'s can do the same thing. It's all civil 20 right now. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Can they use -- 22 MS. UECKER: That's for the whole county. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is for the county? 24 MS. UECKER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex, have you seen this? 2-23-09 95 1 MR. EMERSON: I have not. 2 MS. UECKER: I was going to give him a copy. 3 MR. EMERSON: Interestingly enough, John was just 4 telling me, I guess Bearing Point's filed for bankruptcy. 5 MS. UECKER: Yeah, they have. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Well, hell, let's 7 approve the thing and get going, then. 8 MS. UECKER: They have, but this bankruptcy is for 9 re -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reorganization? Chapter 11 11? 12 MS. UECKER: -- reorganization, and they're -- it's 13 not going to impact any of the e-filing stuff. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Since Phil Mickelson won the 15 Northern Trust Open, they're probably going to get propped 16 back up again. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an interesting 18 observation. 19 MS. UECKER: So, yeah. I already -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of his sponsors. 21 MS. UECKER: I already made several calls on the 22 Chapter 11, and I've been assured that it's not going to 23 impact us. As a matter of fact, I talked to Keith Hottle 24 again last Friday and asked him if he had any concerns about 25 it, and he said no, he didn't. He'd been talking with some 2-23-09 96 1 of the big dogs down there with Bearing Point, and he also 2 had been assured that it would not impact what we're doing. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, I've just been glancing 4 through this kind of while you were talking. Does this say 5 anywhere in the document what's covered by e-mail? 6 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it say anywhere in here 8 what is covered by e-mail? I mean, what -- I see a whole 9 bunch of stuff about what governments shall do and not do, 10 but does it ever say what e-file is in this document? I 11 mean, I don't see where it says, like, you know, you can 12 file -- 13 MS. UECKER: I think -- I think -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- this, this, and -- 15 MS. UECKER: Well, e-filing is any document in a 16 civil. The local rules don't have to be approved by the 17 Commissioners Court. Right now, we're still getting them -- 18 you know, they're off with -- at the Supreme Court, getting 19 them approved. This is the main document. This is just the 20 working contract for us to work with Bearing Point and Texas 21 Online. Texas Online is the system that the sate -- the 22 Legislature has chosen, I think, powered by Bearing Point. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Portal. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what this does, this -- 25 this document is just kind of a master document to let Kerr 2-23-09 97 1 County work with the other parties that are listed in here? 2 MS. UECKER: Right, mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but what it does is that 4 e-file will mean that any civil documents that used to be 5 served -- you know, handled by paper is now handled 6 electronically. 7 MS. UECKER: Can be. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can be. 9 MS. UECKER: Yes, can be. And what would -- what 10 we're going to do is, we're going to do some education stuff 11 with the Bar Association, and on our web site, we'll, you 12 know, put a link probably to the -- how to e-file. It 13 doesn't matter whether it's a one-page document, whether it's 14 -- whatever it is; it's going to cost an attorney $6. If he 15 does two at the same time, it's $12. And that's why I say 16 it's -- I don't anticipate a large volume. I mean, Dallas 17 County is just now getting to where they're starting to get 18 some volume. It -- it just takes a while for attorneys to 19 accept the fact that they have to pay $6, and it's 20 actually -- it's a revenue for us once we do get it going, 21 because we get $2 of that $6. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Two dollars of the six, or two 24 dollars in addition to the six? 25 MS. UECKER: Of the six. 2-23-09 98 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 2 MS. UECKER: Texas Online or Bearing Point gets 3 four, we get two. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, what happens -- and I set 5 off -- there's a couple of things in here I didn't notice 6 about who's responsible if something doesn't happen. What 7 happens if there's a hiccup along the way electronically and 8 something doesn't get in there? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: John's fault. 10 MS. UECKER: John's fault. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there a "hiccup" clause? 12 MS. UECKER: No. That's Bearing Point. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're responsible for all 14 that? 15 MS. UECKER: It either -- could be Bearing Point; 16 it could be Odyssey. But -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There'd be no recourse to 18 the County? 19 MS. UECKER: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. As long as Rex has no 21 problem with it, I don't have a problem with it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 MS. UECKER: That's the same contract as all the 24 other counties that are using e-filing. We didn't change it 25 up any. So -- 2-23-09 99 1 MR. EMERSON: I'll be happy to review it, but -- 2 MS. UECKER: Okay, that's fine. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval of the 5 agenda item subject to County Attorney approval. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second as 8 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 14 MS. UECKER: The -- the copy that I gave Cheryl for 15 recording in the minutes does -- I did attach a copy of the 16 local rules. That has gone to the Supreme Court for filing 17 purposes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 17; consider, 19 discuss, and take appropriate action to approve using 2008 20 capital loan software training fund for Tax 21 Assessor/Collector's office for the disbursement system. 22 Training would be to institute the use of the disbursement 23 modular on which there has been no prior past training, and 24 be considered new training, as it would comply with software 25 training funds that we have put into the 2008 capital loan. 2-23-09 100 1 The requested amount is $5,000. Ms. Hargis? 2 MS. HARGIS: I'm going to let Mr. Trolinger speak 3 to this. I did put the item on for -- for Diane, but I don't 4 know as much about it as John does, so I'm going to defer to 5 him. 6 MR. TROLINGER: I have some details. Software 7 Group, Tyler Technologies' client support has agreed to pay 8 for five days of on-site training, and Kerr County will pay 9 for four days of on-site training. And this is a very good 10 deal. Technically, we should pay for all of the training. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Better than half of it is being 12 donated by Tyler? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And what's this going to do? 15 MR. TROLINGER: This is the on-site training to 16 teach the -- the process of handling supplements, and for 17 generating reports from the Tax Office. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From the Tax Office. So, 19 this is Tax Office-related? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Exactly, yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is the -- the whole 22 issue as to why we've had Diane in here several times talking 23 about -- 24 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Some people didn't get tax 2-23-09 101 1 statements. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax statements, and some people 3 did. 4 MR. TROLINGER: The entire issue is two-part; you 5 know, there's central appraisal and there's the tax office. 6 And I won't speak for those entities, but the troubleshooting 7 process in the software, troubleshooting process that goes 8 into that is what's going to be taught as part of this. And 9 the supplements are what you hear it referred to. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're paying for four 11 days and they're donating five, for a total of nine days of 12 training? Is that what you said? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. When we're finished with 14 this, it will be a total of nine days on-site. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many people will that 16 involve in terms of training? 17 MR. TROLINGER: There's one trainer from the 18 Software Group -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I mean to be trained on 20 this end. 21 MR. TROLINGER: -- and then five individuals. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five? Okay. Move 23 approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 2-23-09 102 1 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 2 motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, I'm glad that we're 4 finally getting this instruction. Why didn't we get it up 5 front? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Good question. I didn't see the 7 problem coming. It -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have a good answer to 9 it? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Good question. I didn't see the 11 problem coming. In January I saw the problem coming. I 12 said, "Hey, we need some training," before this erupted. And 13 we didn't get that training money allocated. It was too late 14 at that point anyhow. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nine days of training, 16 that's a lot of training. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hopefully that will take 18 care of the problem. 19 MR. TROLINGER: I will comment on that. You know, 20 this process of -- of going through public disclosure or 21 public announcement, the news media and the -- and the 22 potential litigation, is really negative for the county. And 23 as far as right now, I have a small project that should be 24 about $5,000, and I just got a quote for $42,000 from the 25 vendor. And they're well aware of the problems that are 2-23-09 103 1 going on, and I think we're going to see some reluctance -- 2 or some higher pricing as we go along with our vendors. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be a temporary 4 aberration, but the bottom line is if they do their job 5 correctly to begin with, there would be no negativity from 6 the County. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Good point. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 10 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 15 to Item 18; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 16 approve the Auditor instituting the purchasing order system 17 to comply with the audit risk standards and SAS 104-111, as 18 required by the A.I.C.P.A. This system will provide us with 19 internal controls that are required under those rules and 20 guidelines. Ms. Hargis? 21 MS. HARGIS: Good morning, Commissioners. As 22 you've seen, there's been quite a few e-mails going back and 23 forth concerning this -- the P.O. system. Last year when we 24 did the budget system, as you may recall, we talked about 25 doing a P.O. system at that time. We actually requested the 2-23-09 104 1 volunteers for the P.O. system that would be used to be 2 assigned an Incode on their computers. The purchase order 3 system, it's the nomenclature of it; the name of it says 4 "purchase order," and a lot of people feel that means they 5 have to get approval to get a purchase order or so forth and 6 so on. The way that the Incode system is set up, there's 7 really two ways to put in invoices. One is the manual system 8 which we're using today, which really limits the amount of 9 data that we can put in, the amount of information that we 10 have in our computer database to be able to answer questions. 11 The second system is called a P.O. system, but it's really 12 just a requisitioning input type of a system, which allows a 13 couple of things to happen. 14 Number one, when you put in your requisition, it 15 automatically shows you what your budget is. Number two, it 16 automatically -- if, for instance, in Road and Bridge, when 17 they order a piece of equipment and it doesn't come for six 18 months, it automatically encumbers their budget so that they 19 do not forget, or we don't have to remember that they have a 20 $35,000 piece of equipment out there they're going to pay 21 for. And this goes through -- most of the departments are 22 going to be spending anywhere from 15 minutes to 30 minutes a 23 month on this. It is -- it is as easy as the budget system, 24 if not easier. What it does allow is, it has one person that 25 inputs. They just -- if they went to Office Max, they put 2-23-09 105 1 "Office Max"; they put the account number, which is the same 2 as they're doing now on the invoice. They put the amount. 3 They're done. 4 The vendors are already in the system. They don't 5 have to put those in, because we already have a tremendous 6 data bank of vendors. Once that's done, they send an e-mail 7 to their supervisor. If the supervisor wants that approval 8 level, they approve it. All they're doing is reviewing it to 9 make sure. It takes about five minutes. Once that's done, 10 it comes into our system; they are finished. That's all 11 there is to it. It provides them a log of what they've done. 12 It provides them an automatic knowledge of how much they have 13 left in their budget. It provides them knowledge if they've 14 gone over their budget, because it shows up in red, and it's 15 just like the budget system. It's just very quick. Most of 16 the normal large bills are still going to go through our 17 office. It's going to also cut down on the time frame. 18 Many of us -- for instance, sometimes we get bills; 19 sometimes they get them direct. But if we get a bill in our 20 office, then we have to put it in the box, and that day the 21 department head or the elected official comes down and gets 22 it. They have to have time to review it with their staff and 23 so forth and so on. But by the time we get it, sometimes 24 it's a week later, we get it back to put in the system. 25 Well, that delays it already a week, 'cause we haven't got 2-23-09 106 1 it. When they get it, they can automatically approve it, put 2 it in the system, and it's ready for court, so that we will 3 now have -- instead of only having a week to put in bills, we 4 can go up to the Wednesday before court date to cut off, so 5 that means we get more of our bills paid in a timely manner, 6 and it also means they don't have to run back and forth to 7 our office all the time to pick up mail, deliver mail and so 8 forth. Yes, sir? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis, this may seem 10 rude that I'm interrupting you, but I have a specific 11 question, and then if you answer that, then you can talk all 12 day long; I don't care. Audit risk standards required by 13 A.I.C.P.A.; I'm -- I'm assuming that that's your C.P.A. 14 organization. Why do I care what they want? 15 MS. HARGIS: You care what they want because if we 16 don't follow these standards, we'll get a qualified opinion 17 in our audit, and if our audit fails, we won't get a bond 18 issue and we won't be able -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's because you're a 20 C.P.A.? 21 MS. HARGIS: No, that's because you're required by 22 law to have an audit done by an independent certified public 23 accountant every year. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, the outside auditor. 25 MS. HARGIS: The outside auditors. 2-23-09 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. 2 MS. HARGIS: And the outside auditors must comply 3 with these audit standards. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: And in order to do that, we need to 6 comply with them as well. The internal audit controls are -- 7 are filtering down to government. We had thought that COSO 8 model, which was all the internal controls that Enron set on 9 everybody, we thought we would avoid at the government level. 10 Unfortunately, those are filtrating down. And we haven't had 11 to go to the expense that a lot of companies have gone to to 12 put these into place, because they haven't got down to us in 13 -- as a hard fact of reality as they have for businesses. 14 But, basically, in businesses, every invoice has to be 15 approved. Every purchase order has to be approved. You have 16 to have a purchase order system. Everything has to run 17 through all of these different levels, and it's cost a lot of 18 companies millions of dollars just to put these into place. 19 We can avoid this. We have this modular; it's been 20 on our system since the day it was installed. It's a very 21 simple modular. Most people are going to be putting in five 22 invoices a month. Some of them will be putting in two. The 23 bulk of the invoices will still go through our office. They 24 won't write the checks. All they're really doing is putting 25 in the invoices they normally would. Some of them use 2-23-09 108 1 spreadsheets now. This will provide them logs so that they 2 don't have to do their spreadsheets if they don't want to. 3 If they want to do them, they -- of course, they can continue 4 to do so, but it gives them more choice. Yes? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If she comes up for air, I 6 want -- I want to make a motion. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question. So, they go 9 out there and they input on -- you know, in the system, a 10 purchase order. 11 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then, you know, Rusty wants to 13 buy something; I don't know what he wants to buy. It comes 14 back, then the invoice comes in. 15 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does he just go to that 17 purchase order and then approve it? Does he -- how -- how do 18 you link the purchase order to the -- 19 MS. HARGIS: You -- first of all, you establish 20 what they call a packet, which is the -- in the old days, the 21 punch cards. You basically put your entry in, and you have a 22 batch, and until you approve that batch, it just sits out 23 there. So, let's say Rusty was going to buy some cars, and 24 he wanted to go out and do a purchase order or a requisition 25 on the cars. He would do that requisition and he would have 2-23-09 109 1 it in the data field, but he wouldn't approve it until he got 2 the invoice, and then he would put all the other costs 3 involved with that vehicle at that time. But that batch can 4 sit out there until such time as you're ready to approve it. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause that was going to be 6 one of the questions I had. We use Krauss for car 7 maintenance, and -- and every one of my officers, if they 8 want to get maintenance, whether it's regular oil changes or 9 anything goes wrong, they have to get a purchase order. We 10 get that purchase order -- we do that in-house now. But 11 there is not a dollar amount tied to it, because until I get 12 the end-of-the-month bill from Krauss, I don't know what that 13 dollar amount is. But then we go back, because it does come 14 in with that purchase order number, and I can see whose car 15 it was and we can verify that. 16 MS. HARGIS: He has the ability to do that, okay? 17 He can set up a requisition from the beginning. He can use 18 the P.O. system that he currently has and only enter it when 19 it comes in. For instance, if I went -- if you want to go to 20 Office Max today, you went over to Office Max and you bought 21 $100 worth of office supplies, you came back, and all you 22 would have to do is -- is put your account number, office 23 supplies, the amount, say complete, approve it; it's done. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But can I -- can I enter the 25 purchase order the date that I -- 2-23-09 110 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Without an amount in it? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. It has a place for an estimate. 4 You can put in an estimated amount if you want to put it, but 5 you don't even have to do that. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We don't -- 7 MS. HARGIS: You don't have to do that. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't want to put an 9 estimated amount that it's going to -- you know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What happens to the -- the hard 11 copy of the invoice now when it comes in? 12 MS. HARGIS: The hard copy of the invoice will need 13 to come back to our office, and we'll establish a time frame 14 for that to come in. The hard copies are kept in our office 15 for the auditors. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So -- but the copy comes 17 in. Right now, I don't know how the other offices are doing 18 it. We don't do that many right here. You know, I just 19 initial on the top of it, okay, to pay the one or two that I 20 have a year that come through. But that could now be done -- 21 Jody can now just input it into the computer and say okay to 22 pay; I don't have to look at that invoice again. 23 MS. HARGIS: That's right. Then the invoice then 24 comes to our office when they're finished with it. We get 25 all the original invoices at the end anyway. The difference 2-23-09 111 1 is, now you won't have the time lag. Let's say you got it 2 today, and you wanted it to be paid at the next court day. 3 Well, the next -- our deadline right now is Friday. Well, 4 instead of it being Friday, you would have up until Wednesday 5 of the next week, so that gives us three extra days to get 6 all of our bills paid, which puts us on a better credit 7 standing and keeps it from being delayed. It also gives that 8 department head more of a hands-on, knowing exactly what's 9 going on in their department, because that picture shows up 10 in front of them. I've always said, as an accountant, when 11 you're doing a tax return or you're doing a set of books for 12 -- for an individual, you -- when you put in their invoices, 13 it tells a story, and you remember that story. So that this 14 -- a lot of times I think it's hard for the department heads, 15 'cause we -- they give us the bill. They don't always see 16 the picture as it flows through our system. This way, 17 they're getting the opportunity to see that. They'll also 18 have another copy; it will print a purchase order and a 19 requisition so that they can keep it with their copy if they 20 like. So, there's more paper involved. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only question I have, 22 because this is -- and not critical of the Auditor's office, 23 but in the last number of months, we've had way too many late 24 notices and late fees, and, you know, even Shell credit card 25 cut off for a week or two. If this will solve that 2-23-09 112 1 problem -- okay? And where a lot of that problem comes from 2 is, some of our bills go directly to your office without ever 3 coming to us, and then -- we got one last week where it had 4 gone to your office about the first part of February, and 5 it's time-stamped with the date it came. Well, then by time 6 we got it for my approval, it was cutoff date, and so it 7 didn't get approved, so now it's going to be March before it 8 -- you know, 'cause it couldn't come to the meeting. So, now 9 it's March. It's already over 30 days. Now it's 45 to 50 10 days, and we're going to get a late notice on that. Those 11 are the things that I think have to stop, and if this will 12 solve that -- can we tell those vendors that those bills come 13 either directly to us, so that we can input them? Or are we 14 going to get them -- a lot of it's more of just how quick we 15 get them from the Auditor's office to our office. 16 MS. HARGIS: We try to get them out as quickly as 17 possible, but we don't hand-carry them. We do put them in 18 the boxes. But we can address this issue. I wasn't aware of 19 it. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I mean, we -- 21 MS. HARGIS: But we do have a -- we do have a lot 22 of bills that go either to our office that have to be 23 approved by that elected official, because we don't -- we 24 want them to look at them and approve them. And, so, by the 25 time they go to their office, and they may or may not be 2-23-09 113 1 there on that date -- you know, we only get 10 days on most 2 of those invoices. That's a short time frame. And most of 3 the time our mail's not always real punctual by the time we 4 get it, anyway. So, I think it will solve -- it's not going 5 to solve all the problems, and we're not going to do 6 everybody right away. This is going to be a graduated thing. 7 We're going to do the smaller departments first as test 8 cases, and then each month we'll add two or three departments 9 until we get everybody online. What I found when I was 10 working with this in another area, and we instituted it, is 11 that people in the field were very appreciative of it because 12 they now knew what their budgets were and they didn't have to 13 worry whether they were going over budget, and the bills got 14 paid in a much timelier manner. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you say "knew what 16 their budget was," are you talking about what they have left? 17 MS. HARGIS: What they have left in that particular 18 line item. Every time they enter an invoice, it shows what 19 they have left. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question, Ms. Uecker? 21 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I have a -- Jeannie, this 22 afternoon I'm going to go up there and I'm going to go online 23 like I always do, and I'm going to order $150 worth of 24 pencils and pens and cartridges and dah, dah, dah. So, what 25 do I have -- do I have to do something in the system first? 2-23-09 114 1 Before I can -- 2 MS. HARGIS: No. 3 MS. UECKER: -- even do that? 4 MS. HARGIS: No, you do not. 5 MS. UECKER: So I can go ahead and order it? 6 MS. HARGIS: All you're really going to do is very 7 likely do your spreadsheet. You know, when you -- your bills 8 come in and you enter it on your spreadsheet, instead of 9 entering it on your spreadsheet, you'll put it in, enter it 10 in that, and it will print out a log for you so you'll know. 11 In addition, it will show the amount in the budget remaining 12 on that log that you print out. No. In fact, the -- I would 13 encourage them not to separate it out as pens and pencils, 14 things of that nature, but I would encourage them to put a 15 line item, office supplies, or anything like that. Where 16 they might buy a printer, scanner, something they want to 17 keep up with to see how long they've had it, but other than 18 that, I wouldn't try -- I would group most things, which is 19 what we do now. We have the invoice to back that up, anyway, 20 so they can expand or contract on what they want. And we 21 take everybody to training, and we're going to take 22 suggestions as to what they want. And I think once they see 23 the training and realize that this is even easier than the 24 budget system, and it's going to move things through the 25 system better, I think everybody's going to like it. 2-23-09 115 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You say in your agenda item 2 you're instituting the purchase order system. That tells me 3 that we already have it. It's parts of our package, and 4 there's no cost associated with acquiring this. 5 MS. HARGIS: No. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's already acquired. 7 MS. HARGIS: It came as part of the original 8 package. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in the Incode package. 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it always has been. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know they're -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: Jeannie, I have a question for you. 13 Will this involve a purchasing agent in your office? Or will 14 I still be allowed to choose the vendors that I purchase from 15 for the -- 16 MS. HARGIS: No. 17 MR. TROLINGER: -- non-biddable items? 18 MS. HARGIS: Go back to the term that I used. 19 Unfortunately, the modular itself is called Purchase Order, 20 but it's just really putting your requisition in. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What it will do, however, I'm given 23 to understand, is if -- if the amount of the proposed 24 acquisition reaches a certain threshold, if it's required to 25 be bid, it will prevent you from buying that directly until 2-23-09 116 1 you comply with bidding procedures. 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Or if there's a stopgap that 4 requires, in the larger departments, maybe the elected 5 official or department head's approval because of the dollar 6 amount that's established, it'll lock that out until that has 7 been met. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. And, certainly, it won't 9 allow you to spend more than is in that line item, and that's 10 a great control right there. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. It will lock it down, and it'll 12 be -- then you will have to contact my office to take it off 13 of override. But, for instance, John, for you, it will be 14 very good for when you order a big bulk of computers, and, 15 you know, the order's out there and it's coming in piecemeal. 16 It ties that -- it encumbers that budget for that amount so 17 that you know until it gets done. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Sure. I don't have to have a 19 spreadsheet on it any more and do all my own accounting. I 20 can just use the system. 21 MS. HARGIS: Right. 22 MS. UECKER: And I'm okay with that. The question 23 I have is, why did some of -- why do some of the bills that 24 need to go to the department heads go to you now? 25 MS. HARGIS: I can't answer that, Linda. The bills 2-23-09 117 1 that have been coming to my department, as far as I know, are 2 the same ones that have always been coming. We -- I mean, 3 sometimes if the address comes to us, we try to forward it as 4 quickly as possible on to the department heads. And many 5 times, if we see your name on it, we don't even open it; we 6 bring it directly to you. 7 MS. UECKER: I think probably an effort that you 8 need to make is maybe contact that vendor and say, "You need 9 to send this directly to that department," 'cause I've got 10 some that come to me, some that come to you, from the -- you 11 know, for the same things. 12 MS. HARGIS: I can't -- I really can't answer that. 13 I think it's just been something that's evolved over time. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Would it not be appropriate for the 15 department that's making the order to say, "You send this 16 billing direct to me"? 17 MS. UECKER: I can do that, and I have always done 18 that. I always make a point to tell the vendor, you know, 19 the bill needs to come to me so I can get it to the Auditor. 20 'Cause somehow they started going to the Auditor. I don't 21 know if -- 22 MS. HARGIS: I think part of the problems came to 23 be when the vendor gets a check that they receive, and the 24 check they receive has our address on it, has our suite 25 number on it. Because the checks -- 2-23-09 118 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: -- have the Treasurer's office on it. 3 I think that many times, that's what the vendor will do. If 4 the check comes from a certain address, then -- and they know 5 that's where the check is coming from, then they -- that's 6 where they tend to bill, 'cause they know that's where 7 they're getting their money. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Then the department that's ordering 9 it probably is in a better position to say, "I'm placing this 10 order; you send the bill directly to me." And that probably 11 would help get that done. You had a question, Sheriff? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only suggestion I was going to 13 make, I know there's some department heads, in all the 14 e-mails that were going around, that were a little leery 15 about this. From what I'm hearing, I don't mind if -- for 16 now, if she wants to use our department, 'cause we do have a 17 large number of bills, you know, even on a daily deal. 18 Instead of starting with the small ones, if she wants to 19 train Nancy and I on doing this, and we use our department to 20 do it for the next month or two, and report back to y'all on 21 how it works, so you can -- I don't have a problem doing 22 that, to where we can get -- since we use our own P.O. system 23 already anyhow, just -- it may make it quicker. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to be the guinea 25 pig? 2-23-09 119 1 MS. HARGIS: I have a lot of the smaller 2 departments -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem doing it. 4 MS. HARGIS: Julie, actually, Trevino has actually 5 been working with -- when Ken was here last year, and we 6 started already working with Julie; actually did some 7 experimental work with us last year, and so some of the 8 smaller departments we need internally and externally. But 9 if that's -- if we started with one big department and two of 10 the small ones, the -- really, the only glitch that we found 11 when I instituted the system in another area was when you set 12 up the approval levels, sometimes it just doesn't work. 13 There isn't any rhyme or reason to it. You have to go back 14 in there and do a little correction. That's the reason why 15 we want to be sure that we let each department try it to make 16 sure that the approval levels are flowing through. And what 17 happens is, because of internal control, they want a person 18 to input that -- that doesn't have the authority, and then 19 they want the one to authorize it that has the authority. 20 Like, in Linda's office, for instance, Robbin might enter 21 them and then Linda approves them. And -- but they don't 22 have to do it that way. They can do it that way. 23 MS. UECKER: I'll probably be doing both. 24 MS. HARGIS: That way it shows electronically the 25 levels of internal control. To give you a small idea, I just 2-23-09 120 1 finished over the weekend, because I -- I've not enough hours 2 in the day, 50 pages of an internal control document for the 3 external auditors to answer how every single department in 4 this building does their bills. And next year we will be 5 able to say we are using the system; I don't need to answer 6 these questions. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mine would be very simple. I 8 have a secretary that's going to enter them, and I'm going to 9 approve them. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the Sheriff's 11 suggestion, to start with the large department because of the 12 sheer volume of what he does. If there are going to be 13 glitches, you're going to uncover them in the Sheriff's 14 Department more easily and more quicker -- or quicker than 15 you would if you do a little small department. So, I like 16 the idea of the Sheriff first. 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. We are going to do training, 18 though, first for everyone. The training will take place -- 19 it'll probably take about a half an hour, and as soon as we 20 can get that set up, we'll let everybody know. If there are 21 people who can not be at the training, we will personally 22 come to their office and train them. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is this going to reduce the 24 work for your office? 25 MS. HARGIS: My work? 2-23-09 121 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is this going to reduce the 2 workload in your office? 3 MS. HARGIS: Not really, not that much. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why not? 5 MS. HARGIS: The reason -- I was really hoping, 6 when I instituted this before in another area, because when 7 the -- even after they do the entry, it comes into what I 8 would call the fish bowl. All the batches come into a fish 9 bowl, and at that point they all have to be checked again by 10 my department to make sure that they balance. Because if 11 they don't balance, or there's an incorrect -- wrong number 12 or wrong vendor number, then it won't -- the report won't 13 pull. So, unfortunately, it doesn't reduce our load that 14 much. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to second that 16 motion, please. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 18 item for the -- to institute the purchasing order system as 19 proposed by the County Auditor. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 22 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 23 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 25 2-23-09 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the issue of sending 5 bills to the wrong place, that -- Linda's more familiar with 6 it than I am, but that came in Noah's Ark, probably. I mean, 7 I remember ever since I've been here, we've had that problem 8 of the bill going to the Auditor's office, and when it really 9 needs to go to the Sheriff and all. That's always been 10 there. You're familiar with Noah's Ark? 11 MS. UECKER: Yes. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: She was here during that time. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of what I was 14 wondering. I didn't want to say that. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. UECKER: What happens is we end up having Cliff 17 Clavin deliver the mail now. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 4 of the agenda; 19 for one, payment of the bills. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for payment 23 of the bills. Any question or discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one, under 25 Nondepartmental. Walker Group, photocopy expense, $2,400. 2-23-09 123 1 What was that? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2,400? 3 MS. HARGIS: We order all the paper for the entire 4 building, and then -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: -- then it's parceled back out. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 3. We are paying a lump sum 9 over to Kimble County Treasurer for 198th D.A. Is that going 10 to be transferred to Kerr County eventually? Is that going 11 to be handled out of Kerr County? 12 MS. HARGIS: The 198th? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 MS. HARGIS: No. Oh, you mean the 198th -- the 15 probation? This is the probation. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No, D.A. That's the District 17 Attorney. 18 MS. HARGIS: That's our pro rata portion -- lump 19 sum portion. 20 MR. BARTON: I'll be delivering a report here in 21 just a second and be available for questions. 22 MS. HARGIS: I'll let him answer that one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The only other comment I'd 24 make is on Page 21, indigent health care, much sweeter 25 number, gentlemen. Much sweeter. 2-23-09 124 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Indeed, it is. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Good work down there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion? 7 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 8 hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 13 any budget amendments? 14 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, we don't have any at this 15 time. But I will say, and as a caution, we're already 16 running over budget in many of the departments, and not 17 excessive, but we have some. And I just want to make 18 everybody aware that we need to be as frugal as possible, 19 because we do have tight budgets, and we need to keep those 20 in line. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, when -- are all -- are 22 all of the -- I mean, I'm sure you can run a report that 23 shows anyone who's pretty far out of line. I think it'd be a 24 good idea to run a report; just send it to the department 25 head or elected official so they're -- make sure they're 2-23-09 125 1 aware of it. 2 MS. HARGIS: We have. We are in the process of 3 doing that now. And we generally call them when we see that 4 there's a line item. I'm finding many times -- and, again, 5 I'm hoping the P.O. system will help with this as well. 6 Sometimes they code them to the wrong line. You know, and 7 then we -- they're -- we fix it. So, it's not really a 8 budget amendment. But I just wanted to caution all the 9 department heads that we really need to start watching it 10 now. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any late bills? 12 MS. HARGIS: No. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 14 reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; Justice of the 15 Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; District 16 Clerk; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; and Constable, 17 Precinct 3. Do I hear a motion that those reports be 18 approved as presented? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 22 indicated reports to be approved as presented. Question or 23 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 24 signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2-23-09 126 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 4 any reports from Commissioners in connection with their 5 liaison or committee assignments -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as designated? Commissioner 8 Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin and I are 12 still working with the City on the ETJ issues, and as far as 13 everyone being aware that the -- we gave a 90-day notice 14 period a while back; then we asked them to go -- to modify 15 the agreement to give them 30 days notice. They chose not to 16 do that. As a result, we are not in compliance with the 17 state law on ETJ. Anyone who files plats in the ETJ will be 18 going -- the City has no authority to handle them right now, 19 other than their own jurisdiction. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up to the City. And we put in 22 their policy; they said they didn't want to go further. So, 23 that's where we are. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 2-23-09 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm-mm. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from elected 4 officials or department heads? 5 MR. TROLINGER: The Tyler Technologies Software 6 Group client support head will be here tomorrow and 7 Wednesday. I'd like to encourage all the courthouse 8 officials and department heads that use the software system 9 to meet with Mitchell Spence. He especially wants to meet 10 with the County Attorney's office. They're here to find out 11 what we're missing and what we need training on to -- to 12 focus in on that to follow up on the Tax Office issues. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. District Attorney? 14 MR. BARTON: Good morning, still. I wanted to just 15 look everybody in the eye and be available for questions, if 16 somebody was wondering what we're doing down the street. 17 We've got some good things going, good things to report. We 18 -- I just pulled up the jail census, and Rusty's got, I 19 think, 150 guys in jail right now. Only 15 of them are mine. 20 I've got -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we need to talk to somebody else 22 if we got a problem with the 135, right? 23 MR. BARTON: Yeah. I'm just reporting the facts. 24 Seven -- seven of the 15 are less than 30 days old, so those 25 are brand-new indictments. So, that number 15 is just 2-23-09 128 1 recently indicted, 'cause our Grand Jury just met. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Actually, he has more than 15, 3 but they're waiting to catch a chain, or they're serving out 4 a six-month sentence they've given them, or their -- their 5 case is disposed of. He's through, but he's -- they're still 6 there. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Not yours any more, are they? 8 MR. BARTON: I say calf rope; I did my part. 9 (Laughter.) Ten of my 15 have cases that are pending in 10 other courts, either federal court, 216th, county court, so 11 that -- that does raise an underlying issue that cooperation 12 between the feds, the sister district court, and the county 13 court is important, and we're continuing to foster that, and 14 I think that -- that 15 pending cases reflects that. We have 15 -- and I want to report a new hire, to the extent that we're 16 obligated to. I'm sure many of you have heard we have 17 brought on Mike Chapman, Kimble County Sheriff, to be an 18 investigator with our office. We're instituting a new 19 program to assist area law enforcement with traffic 20 enforcement on the highways, as well as drug interdiction in 21 -- in the district, primarily on those roads that go from Del 22 Rio to Fort Worth, El Paso to Florida, primarily the heavier 23 traveled roadways, trying to complement what local law 24 enforcement are doing with user-level narcotics by going 25 after larger level narcotics. So, it's not in place of what 2-23-09 129 1 our area law enforcement are doing, but as a supplement to 2 that. 3 Let me brief on you our direct file system. That 4 is in the works, and this is tied to two other issues I 5 wanted to address with you. We've got our computer -- our 6 hardware components of our computer system implemented, all 7 of that purchased at no taxpayer expense. That is -- that's 8 on the ground and running. The software component of that 9 that is going to help us be more efficient is still in the 10 works. Dell was about three weeks behind on their getting 11 their computers to us, so we're a little bit behind the curve 12 on the implementation that I had anticipated. That will 13 allow us to move into our direct file system that I'm working 14 with our District Clerk on, and the District Attorney in our 15 sister court, to get cases in our system some 60 to 90 days 16 earlier than they're currently getting in there. That will 17 have a direct impact on the Sheriff's jail population, and we 18 expect very good things out of that. Our clearance rate 19 right now of cases is excellent. I think we -- we've pled 20 some 20-odd cases last month, and indicted a little over 30, 21 so that's great. We had a jury trial success a couple of 22 weeks ago. Brad, our new assistant District Attorney, got 11 23 years on a breast-fondling case. That's fantastic, so I 24 think our -- our jurors and the new assistant, Brad 25 McCullouch, can certainly be commended for that good work for 2-23-09 130 1 the D.A.'s office. Any questions? Oh, one other thing. We 2 negotiated a vehicle exchange. The -- my predecessor had a 3 very nice vehicle that we were able to negotiate an exchange 4 on to get three patrol units in exchange for this one 5 vehicle, so we've got -- we traded this Yukon for a Charger, 6 which is kind of the preferred vehicle for working on the 7 highway, a Tahoe that's fully rigged out for law enforcement 8 and -- and has the police package and all that, and a Ford 9 pickup that is going to be used for the office director- 10 slash-investigator, Kyle Dean. Again, all of that done with 11 no impact on our budget, and at no taxpayer expense. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. 13 MR. BARTON: Yes, sir? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we going to start handling in 15 Kerr County all of the accounting for your office? 16 MR. BARTON: Probably not. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. BARTON: The -- I don't know exactly how that 19 change-over would work. Right now, I'll give -- the status 20 is, we have Davidson, Freedle, Espenhover -- you know, the 21 local firm keeping our books and making sure -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Keeping your books or 23 auditing your books? 24 MR. BARTON: Keeping our books. The -- and I'll 25 expand on that just a little bit. They're writing the 2-23-09 131 1 checks, doing all the accounting, making sure the state 2 reporting is done. And the -- as far as the County doing 3 anything, Kimble County is, I guess, considered the main 4 county. Really, all they do is take our budget; they submit 5 the request to the other counties, and all the other counties 6 write a check into Kimble County. A check is then written 7 from Kimble County into the D.A.'s operation budget monthly 8 pursuant to a submission -- or a request to get submitted 9 from our office. So, there's really no accounting that 10 Kimble County is doing. They just facilitate just moving 11 this money around. Each county commissioner -- commissioners 12 court will, of course, be given all of our annual 13 expenditures, especially related to the Chapter 59 seizure 14 fund, as required. And that's part of the reason that we're 15 moving that -- we're outsourcing that, to make sure -- number 16 one, to add an arm's-length element to the accounting. 17 Secondary, to make sure that it's done in a language that you 18 guys can understand, that our auditors can understand, our 19 outside auditors, and the state audit can understand. 'Cause 20 as a lawyer, I don't have any business speaking C.P.A. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't Kerr County support 22 the largest piece of your budget? 23 MR. BARTON: That would be correct. I think the -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why, then, would it not be 25 appropriate that all of the financial transactions flow 2-23-09 132 1 through Kerr County? 2 MR. BARTON: Because no financial transactions flow 3 through Kimble County. There's one transaction per month. 4 Basically, there is a -- there's a repository county, and I'm 5 guessing -- I'm getting a feeling that you guys would be 6 interested in having Kerr County -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good perception. 8 MR. BARTON: -- be the place for that. And maybe 9 if we could get to the root of why you -- you're interested 10 in doing that, I could facilitate the discussion. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe you can help us in 12 this regard. Maybe you can draw for us the distinction 13 between the way things are handled in the 198th, financial 14 transactions, as opposed to the way financial transactions 15 are handled in the 216th. 16 MR. BARTON: That would require that I have an 17 understanding of the way that 216th does things. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That maybe we'd have a 19 better understanding of why someone else is doing it instead 20 of Kerr County. Just a thought. 21 MR. BARTON: Would Kerr County like for us to 22 move -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm getting a no. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want to grow the 25 Auditor's office any bigger than it is. 2-23-09 133 1 MR. BARTON: There might be a root issue that I'm 2 not understanding. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the root issue is if the 4 funds are on deposit in Kerr County, that would be preferable 5 than the funds being on deposit in Kimble County. 6 MR. BARTON: I see. The funds would never be on 7 deposit with the county, per se. The funds are on deposit 8 with the bank. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: In Kimble County, as compared to 10 Kerr County. 11 MR. BARTON: That's correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 MR. BARTON: That's correct. And they provide a 14 good service, a good interest rate and all that. You know, 15 without a reason to move that, I don't -- I don't know that 16 there would be good cause to do that. But, you know, that's 17 something for the future. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we're your biggest 19 and best buddies, that's one good reason. 20 MR. BARTON: Anything else? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 24 MR. BARTON: Thank you for the harassment. 25 Appreciate it. 2-23-09 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis? 2 MS. HARGIS: I just have one other thing that I'd 3 like to report on. I don't know if y'all are familiar with 4 House Bill 1039. About a month ago, the Judge asked for us 5 to put our list of our checks out on the web site, which we 6 did. But there is a bill that is in front of the Legislature 7 right now that may be enacted immediately, and so I kind of 8 want to make y'all aware of it. It is called the 9 Transparency Act, and basically what it says is that we will 10 put our check register out on our web site. But the -- the 11 glitch in it is that it has to be put in an Excel format that 12 can be sorted by the taxpayer, and that they can drill down 13 into, let's say, Office Max to see how much money we paid 14 Office Max for the year. It is going to be very expensive, 15 and it's being kind of fought by a lot of auditors, because 16 we can't figure out how we're going to get the software to do 17 what they want us to do. But they may make it effective 18 immediately, which is this month. They also may make it -- 19 you don't think so? Have you heard? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you'll get a bill 21 passed this month. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Still has to be signed by 23 the governor no matter what. 24 MS. HARGIS: They're talking -- well, that's what 25 the Listserv is telling us, but we're hoping it doesn't. 2-23-09 135 1 They're also talking about raising it to 50,000 population. 2 MR. TROLINGER: And I'll support the Auditor on 3 this. It is a terrible piece of legislation from an 4 information technology standpoint. There's no definition. 5 There will be 253 counties doing it differently. 6 MS. HARGIS: Collin County Representative Paxton is 7 carrying the bill. I will try to forward you their website 8 so you can look at it to see what they're doing, but they are 9 doing a similar situation. We can put an Excel format out 10 there, but drilling down to see what that vendor's paid for 11 the -- since he's been, you know, a vendor for this county is 12 going to be a real problem. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may -- just a suggestion; 14 maybe visit with your people upstairs, the two judges, and 15 have them get word to the Legislature that this is a bad 16 bill. I mean -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Bad old bill. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is bad. 19 MS. HARGIS: I don't mind us putting our list out 20 there, but I think the drill-down situation is really a 21 little bit ludicrous. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if this thing has a -- is 23 moving quickly, amendments can be placed quickly on bills. 24 So, I mean, something can be done to fix some of the real 25 onerous problems and keep the intent there. So -- but we 2-23-09 136 1 need -- Legislature only acts when they're told to. 2 MS. HARGIS: Would y'all mind if I contacted 3 Representative Hilderbran and asked him to oppose it? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got no problem with you 5 twisting his arm any way you can get ahold of it, but I think 6 Jon's suggestion that -- that you advise your judges that 7 maybe they should -- they could be of some assistance by 8 letting their operation be known, not as to the transparency 9 in general, but as to the -- all this search -- search and -- 10 and all this other stuff that has to go on with it. We don't 11 mind everybody knowing what's going on. We just don't want 12 to be paying for a lot of different software solutions for 13 people to be able to sort and pick and so forth at the info. 14 We'll get them all the info. 15 MS. HARGIS: And if I could ask y'all, if you hear 16 anything about the bill that I not might be aware of, if you 17 could let me know? Sometimes you hear before I do. I'd 18 appreciate it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll hear from TAC. 20 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Williams? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: I just -- I wanted to reiterate what 23 the Auditor said earlier about things being tight. I just 24 wanted to make y'all aware that I am a little concerned on 25 our moneys. We do have some C.D.'s we just purchased, but if 2-23-09 137 1 we could possibly ask department heads and elected officials 2 to be really frugal on their spending, I'd -- I'd appreciate 3 it. Because right now, as you are all aware, there are no 4 really good vehicles out there for us to find a high interest 5 rate in. We're doing the best we can, but it's -- it's going 6 to get tight, so I just want to make the Court aware. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the tightness on the 8 expense side, or is the tightness on the transfer of tax 9 money into the general account? 10 MS. WILLIAMS: I think it's a little bit on both 11 sides, actually. Now, we can't control what the utilities 12 are going to be or certain other things. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: And we can't control our -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not budgeted earlier. I 16 think there will be some overages having to be paid because 17 of not figuring enough insurance money to be paid, for one, 18 as an example, for our health insurance. We will see which 19 one of us wins, me or the Auditor, when it comes to those 20 figures. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: And -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At the end of all this in the 23 fourth quarter. 24 MS. WILLIAMS: And Commissioner Letz had asked 25 earlier about our ad valorem coming in. I went ahead and did 2-23-09 138 1 up a spreadsheet, and I gave him a copy of it, and I can pass 2 this around. We're pretty close; we're about, what, 500,000 3 off of what our total was for last year. So, we've still got 4 February, which is usually a pretty big month. 5 MS. HARGIS: We have a much higher levy, so we 6 should be a little bit closer. I think we're going to see -- 7 usually, a lot of the first week of February is January, so 8 that really picks up in the month of February. I did look at 9 our sales tax, because I got a call from the City, and we 10 were very conservative in our approach there. We did not 11 raise our sales tax over what we had last year; we kept it 12 level, so we are actually $35 off. They are actually about 13 $35,000 off for just one month at the City. So, we're okay 14 on our sales tax. It's -- actually, we're doing better than 15 the City is on the sales tax. It's just I think that a lot 16 of folks had a little bit more leeway in their office 17 supplies and things of that nature in the past, and as you 18 recall, they all cut a lot of those areas to be able to -- to 19 come up with -- and that's where we're seeing it. We're 20 seeing it mostly in their -- their day-to-day operations, you 21 know, versus -- we still have quite a bit of money in the 22 fuel, but all of the departments are very conservative with 23 that. And they're concerned that when we get into the summer 24 months and they start running more runs out in the field, 25 that they'll need that gas. So, I really don't want to -- to 2-23-09 139 1 use that money. But I -- I think it's just an overall not 2 being used to being as tight as we are. We've always had a 3 little bit of fluctuation, and we really just -- when we did 4 this budget, we didn't allow for fluctuation in the 5 departments themselves, and that's the problem. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 7 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir, that's it. Just wanted you 8 to be aware. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, just along the lines of 11 being tight, and something I -- I truly would like some 12 honest guidance on. As y'all know, in my budget, we've been 13 trying to pay out every bit of new overtime or holiday time. 14 I haven't been letting it build up, which has put my budget 15 very tight. In fact, we're right at the limit on the 16 overtime and holiday time. I don't know if it's the 17 consensus of this Court -- problem is, now what we've been 18 facing is giving the time back off. I can lower those bills 19 by letting them go ahead and build that back up in their 20 holiday or comp time bank instead of paying it, starting to 21 put it away in a bank, but I just -- it's going to catch up 22 to us sooner or later. Just whatever the guidance would be 23 on it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather keep paying it. 25 MS. HARGIS: Want to keep paying it? 2-23-09 140 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, yeah, that's 2 something -- a liability we need to get rid of. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: It has to be reduced. It's going 4 to -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't carry it over every 6 year. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what's been happening. 8 So, we're getting control of it, Bruce, but there is just -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I appreciate that. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- a lot there, and more than 11 I've got in the budget, to be honest. 12 MS. HARGIS: So, there will be some amendments on 13 that on this next go-around. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? Any other 15 reports? We're adjourned. 16 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 12:10 p.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-23-09 141 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 27th day of February, 8 2009. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2-23-09