1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Workshop 8 Friday, May 1, 2009 9 10:30 a.m. 10 Commissioners' Courtroom 11 Kerr County Courthouse 12 Kerrville, Texas 13 14 15 16 17 Direct Filing in Criminal Cases 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Friday, May 1, 2009, at approximately 10:20 a.m., a 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order the Kerr County 8 Commissioners Court workshop posted and scheduled for Friday, 9 May 1st, 2009, at 10:30 a.m. It's a bit prior to that, but 10 we've got everybody here. So, the purpose of the workshop is 11 to participate in a workshop with Jana McCowan, First 12 Assistant District Attorney in Williamson County, regarding 13 direct filing process in criminal cases. Ms. McCowan? 14 MS. McCOWAN: Thank you. Okay, I had no idea this 15 was an official workshop, so -- I really just came by to kind 16 of explain what Williamson County has done and let you all 17 ask questions, because I understand that Kerr County is 18 considering moving into some sort of direct file system. I'm 19 the First Assistant District Attorney in Williamson County. 20 I've been a prosecutor for almost 20 years now. I started in 21 Houston right out of law school back in 1985, and so did my 22 boss, the elected District Attorney, John Bradley. And both 23 of us worked there for three or four years before we ever got 24 to central Texas and started in Williamson County, and when 25 John became the District Attorney in 2001 after Ken Anderson, 5-1-09 wk 3 1 the former District Attorney, became a judge, he asked me to 2 be his First Assistant, and we almost immediately started 3 talking about what kind of changes we should make in the 4 office to accommodate the growth that Williamson County was 5 experiencing during that time frame. 6 Being just north of Austin, Austin is starting to 7 encroach into Williamson County, and our population has grown 8 pretty dramatically, somewhere in the area of 350,000 to 9 400,000 people now. And we have about 1,900 felony criminal 10 cases that are filed every year, and probably another 10,000 11 to 12,000 misdemeanor cases that are filed. We have a 12 separate County Attorney's office from the District 13 Attorney's office, and they too recently have implemented 14 sort of a -- a modification of a direct filing system that is 15 hopefully expediting their cases as well. But a lot of 16 people don't really know what direct filing means, and it's 17 really pretty simple. And it's not a new concept, because we 18 didn't make it up. We borrowed it from Houston, because 19 that's where it originated back when they were experiencing 20 growth, probably back as early as the '70's. 21 And what it means, essentially, is that as soon as 22 somebody from a prosecutor's office has screened a file and 23 looked at at least a probable cause affidavit, getting 24 somebody arrested, that that information then goes to the 25 District Clerk's office and a file is opened, so it is 5-1-09 wk 4 1 direct-filed into a District Clerk's office or a County 2 Clerk's office. And by doing that, it accomplishes a lot of 3 things that smaller counties have problems with. And we've 4 sort of added in conjunction with that an initial screening 5 over at our magistrate's office where a prosecutor goes every 6 day of the week except for the weekends and looks -- takes 7 sort of a preliminary look at who is arrested overnight on 8 felony cases, and whether or not we want to accept those 9 charges or not, and direct-file the case and get them started 10 into the criminal justice system. 11 That -- those two steps, combined with them having 12 some court settings before a defendant is actually presented 13 to the grand jury and indicted, has expedited cases in 14 Williamson County in ways that we expected and ways that we 15 did not expect. We've had a lot of benefits that we didn't 16 really anticipate, and so before I start talking about the 17 tracking of a case through the system the way it works now, 18 let me talk to you about what some of the benefits are. In 19 every criminal justice system that I'm familiar with, there 20 is the potential to have delay built into the process, where 21 there's -- there's really not much going on because you're 22 waiting for something; you're waiting for a laboratory report 23 or a police investigation to be concluded or a defense lawyer 24 to get paid, or a defendant who's out on bond to actually get 25 a lawyer. 5-1-09 wk 5 1 And so we started looking for ways that we could 2 sort of eliminate some of these dollars and move our cases 3 more quickly through the system, because as our numbers were 4 growing, we didn't want our dockets to grow, and we didn't 5 want to have our caseloads get so high we weren't really able 6 to manage them, and this may be a real -- a benefit to our 7 county in a lot of different ways. We had a talk like you 8 all did; we didn't have an official workshop, but we talked 9 to our District Judges and our District Clerk's office and 10 our court coordinators all about how their offices might 11 change and have to accommodate some things if we went into 12 this system, and so with everybody's agreement, we began 13 implementing test cases and working through the test 14 situation before we did a full-scale, you know, switch-over 15 to direct filing. 16 The benefits that we've seen have been from as 17 little as actually having a home for some of that paperwork 18 that sort of floats around when there's not a file open in a 19 clerk's office, which is the holder of public records. 20 There's really no place for things like the compliant, which 21 is a public record, or the bail bond, or early motions that 22 need to be filed when there's, perhaps, a motion for somebody 23 to be examined for competency or sanity. Or if they violate 24 conditions of their bond, there's no place for that motion to 25 revoke their bond to be filed. And so you had documents that 5-1-09 wk 6 1 should have been official court records, you know, that ended 2 up in the District Attorney's file or in the police file or 3 someplace else, because it didn't have a home in a district 4 or county clerk's office. 5 And so that's been one of the -- the little 6 benefits, you know. We do know where to go look for stuff 7 now. It's going to be in the District Clerk's office. If 8 the media wants a copy of a probable cause affidavit, they go 9 to the District Clerk's office and they pay their dollar and 10 they get their copy. In addition to moving the cases more 11 quickly through the system, our jail actually gives us some 12 credit for helping reduce the jail population. I know that's 13 big for commissioners, because one of the things that we're 14 always trying to do is keep our jail population under control 15 and keep from having to add beds or add staffing. And by 16 doing that early screening of the cases and deciding whether 17 or not charges are valid or maybe have been mischarged, then 18 we've managed to help expedite cases through the jail. 19 For instance, if we decide that a felony case 20 really would be better prosecuted as a misdemeanor -- we have 21 many, say, aggravated assaults where there was really no 22 injury, no harm -- you know, maybe not a knife or a firearm, 23 maybe some other potential deadly weapon, and there was a 24 threat, but it's kind of a no-harm, no-foul situation. Those 25 can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor terroristic threat fairly 5-1-09 wk 7 1 easily, and treated significantly and equally as well in the 2 criminal justice system. So, by catching that right when 3 they come into the jail, we can let the magistrate know that 4 we're going to refer it to the County Attorney's office to be 5 prosecuted as a misdemeanor. They can initiate their 6 paperwork and bail can be set appropriately, so instead of 7 sitting in jail or on a $15,000 or $20,000 bond, that 8 defendant may have bond conditions that reflect what he needs 9 to be doing, and he can be released on a lower bond under 10 certain circumstances. 11 Other benefits. The defense bar. I can't believe 12 that, you know, anything I would ever do would seek to make 13 the defense bar happy, but a lot of times when they're 14 waiting for an indictment or for the prosecutor's office to 15 do something and they're not meeting with their client on a 16 regular basis or seeing them in court, their clients begin to 17 think they're not doing anything on their behalf, especially 18 if they're sitting in jail waiting for something to happen. 19 And so, by bringing the defense bar and the defendant and the 20 prosecutor to court, even before indictment, it gives them an 21 opportunity to do some discovery on the case, to start making 22 punishment recommendations. And, actually, over the past 23 three years that we've had the direct filing system, 24 one-third of our defendants have been pleading guilty to an 25 information and never having to have their cases presented to 5-1-09 wk 8 1 the grand jury. And I think that was the biggest unexpected 2 benefit, that -- that so many people would be willing to 3 plead guilty before their cases were reviewed by a grand 4 jury. And we were initially pleased when that number, you 5 know, hit 25 percent, but now it's been consistently at a 6 third for the last three years. 7 Let me see my little cheat sheet over here, Bruce. 8 I just did a presentation on Wednesday afternoon for court 9 administrators across the county -- across the state, because 10 our local administrators were hosting the regional conference 11 or the state conference for court administrators this year, 12 and so about 75 of them were there. And I expect, from the 13 comments that we had, a lot of those people will be going 14 back and talking to their judges and their prosecutors about 15 whether or not something like this could be modified to fit 16 their county. Williamson County's lucky in the sense that we 17 have a single county and, you know, two prosecutors' offices, 18 and we're not a multi-county jurisdiction, but I think it 19 will work in multi-county jurisdictions as well. It's just a 20 little bit more complicated for the prosecutors to keep track 21 of the cases. 22 I mentioned the jail population. We have a pretty 23 big jail in Williamson County. They have an empty floor that 24 at one point it looked like it was going to have to be opened 25 when they expanded the jail several years ago. They -- you 5-1-09 wk 9 1 know, they projected for future growth. We've managed to 2 keep them from having to open that floor just yet. And the 3 average jail population used to be about approximately 700 4 people a day. That's dropped to 550-ish a day, and I think 5 that's because those cases are moving faster through the 6 system. People are being able to make bonds that more 7 accurately reflect what they should have been charged with 8 initially. And when you have a prosecutor who's reviewing, 9 at an early phase, those -- those charges, then you eliminate 10 that initial two- or three-week period sometimes where you've 11 got a file open in a prosecutor's office, and no lawyer has 12 looked at it yet to see whether or not the person has been 13 properly charged or whether or not the -- you know, the 14 correct charges have been filed. 15 I have a couple examples that I can think of that 16 we caught when we first started doing this, and that was the 17 first steep that we took. We started going to our 18 magistrate's office every weekday and looking at whoever got 19 arrested overnight and reviewing their probable cause 20 affidavit, and sometimes we had to call the -- the police 21 agencies or the outlying agency, like the justice of the 22 peace court or the municipal court and say, "Do you have a 23 copy of it? 'Cause we don't have one yet." But in reviewing 24 that, we could see where they were making mistakes and filing 25 drugs as the wrong category, where it might be a misdemeanor 5-1-09 wk 10 1 drug as opposed to a felony drug. My personal favorite is 2 one that I -- I screened where they had filed burglary of a 3 habitation with intent to commit theft on a man who had, 4 while his ex-wife was out of town, taken his new girlfriend 5 to her house for some reason and ended up having sex in the 6 house, and the neighbor who was supposed to be watching the 7 plants came and caught them. And the police filed on them 8 for burglary of a habitation with intent to commit theft 9 because they stole electricity by turning on the lights. And 10 so that was clearly a criminal trespass, but not a burglary, 11 and, you know, that was diverted. Yes, sir? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who was charged, the husband 13 or the neighbor? 14 MS. McCOWAN: The husband. The husband. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Husband, okay. 16 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah, the neighbor had a key. He was 17 supposed to be looking after the plants. So, that's the kind 18 of thing, you know, that doesn't happen a whole lot. More 19 often it's a mistake thing that a particular drug might be a 20 different category than it is. Hydrocodone is one that's 21 fairly commonly mistaken, because it can be in Penalty Group 22 1 or Penalty Group 3, which makes it either a misdemeanor or 23 a felony. Most often it's a Penalty Group 3 misdemeanor, but 24 they don't always realize that, so we catch a lot of those 25 little charges mistakes, or decisions that can be made early 5-1-09 wk 11 1 on and help, you know, sort of sort things out and divert 2 them through the process. 3 Another thing that we do is the court 4 administrators actually prepare a schedule for the -- the 5 magistrate of all their court dates, and they tell them what 6 their first court date is going to be, so if they're arrested 7 during a certain time frame, then they know the first court 8 date is going to be on this particular date in that court. 9 And by giving that to them at the jail, then before that 10 person's ever released on bond, they can be told when their 11 first court date is, and they don't have this, you know, 60- 12 to 90- or 120-day delay waiting for an indictment before they 13 ever have to go to court, and we lose less defendants that 14 way. They know before they even get out of jail in most 15 situations when they're going to have to report the first 16 time. So, that made the bail bondsmen happy, another 17 unintended consequence. 18 Our district court distribution evened out, because 19 prior to this system, we had rotating grand juries. We have 20 three district courts that share criminal jurisdiction out of 21 the five in our county, and each one of those courts has a 22 grand jury that meets for a three-month term, and then the 23 next court has a grand jury and the third court has a grand 24 jury, and they just rotate like that. Well, it used to be 25 that all of the cases that were indicted in a particular 5-1-09 wk 12 1 grand jury went into the court whose grand jury it was, so 2 they had this feast of new cases coming in, and then when the 3 next two grand juries were in session, they weren't seeing 4 anything new, except for people who maybe already had a 5 pending case. And so their dockets were uneven because they 6 had this sort of feast or famine situation of cases coming 7 into the courts. We persuaded the judges that a random 8 distribution would be more appropriate, and that would be -- 9 that way we wouldn't have this, you know, potential 10 accusation that we were somehow manipulating which court a 11 case fell into by which grand jury we took it to, and also, 12 it would help their dockets level out in the long run. 13 And so what the District Clerk's office and the -- 14 and the District Judges agreed to do was they have, you know, 15 just like the little ping-pong ball machines where the 16 ping-pong balls -- we have these little flat discs, and 17 they've taken an equal number for each court and written that 18 court number on it. And so in the mornings, when the 19 prosecutor screens the case over at the magistrate's office, 20 we say, "Yes, we're going to accept this charge." We look to 21 see if there's something already pending that would attract 22 that particular defendant's case to one of our courts 23 already. If they have a pending charge, we want all new 24 cases to go to the same court. Or if they're on probation in 25 the court and there's going to be a revocation filed, we want 5-1-09 wk 13 1 that same court to hear their new situation. We don't want 2 to separate those out. 3 We also try to make sure that codefendants' cases 4 go to the same court. We're not splitting them up into 5 different courts, and especially in a county where we have 6 two prosecutors sharing jurisdiction, that makes sense to 7 have some way to sort of screen those and make sure that if a 8 defendant commits new crimes, that the same prosecutor's 9 office is handling those cases and the same court is getting 10 those cases. We don't have to make multiple, you know, 11 situations where one -- one prosecutor may not know what the 12 other prosecutor is doing. So, by doing that, our -- our 13 district court distribution evened out, and the judges no 14 longer -- I don't think I've heard them complain that they, 15 you know, somehow didn't get a case -- particular case in a 16 long time, because they realized that they had a random, fair 17 distribution setup according to the way that they actually 18 wanted it done. With suggestions from us, of course. 19 And so those are the sort of benefits that we've 20 seen in having this system. And really all it involves, 21 again, are three things; an early screening by a prosecutor's 22 office of the cases right at the very point where they come 23 in, then the opening of a file in the District Clerk's 24 office, which is the part that's the direct-file part, and 25 then the additional step that really makes it all work is the 5-1-09 wk 14 1 -- having a court setting even before indictment, where the 2 prosecutors, the defense attorney, and the defendant can 3 share information and start negotiating and working out those 4 situations. 5 MS. UECKER: Jana? 6 MS. McCOWAN: Yes? 7 MS. UECKER: If -- say Court 3 has just had their 8 grand jury, they're done, and the following day the little 9 disk is drawn to put a case into Court 3. Does that -- and, 10 no, they don't plead out, nothing happens, and it needs to go 11 to grand jury. Does have it to wait then three months -- 12 MS. McCOWAN: No. 13 MS. UECKER: -- before it goes to the grand jury? 14 MS. McCOWAN: We have a grand jury that's meeting 15 every two weeks. And -- 16 MS. UECKER: Regardless of the court? 17 MS. McCOWAN: -- just because it's assigned to the 18 court doesn't mean it has to go to that particular grand 19 jury. 20 MS. UECKER: Okay. 21 MS. McCOWAN: I think I've covered most of the key 22 points. Is there a District Clerk or County Clerk 23 represented? Yes. I know the issues that they wondered 24 about when we were starting out. You know, we had these 25 cases where some public records were going into -- but 5-1-09 wk 15 1 ultimately they don't get indicted; the case is no-billed. 2 All we've done is -- is taken the position that by filing a 3 dismissal, getting the District Judge to order that, and 4 then, you know, they close their case out by dismissal, that 5 they don't have to disappear. It's no longer sort of a -- 6 you know, a state secret that somebody had their case 7 presented to the grand jury. The prosecutor's office still 8 has the ability to present cases to the grand jury without 9 ever having them direct-filed or without a warrant being 10 issued, and we do that frequently. You know, the police will 11 send us something that probably doesn't need to be indicted, 12 or it's just -- certainly shouldn't be indicted. It's not -- 13 you know, it's not a criminal act, but there's somebody out 14 there saying, you know, "I want a criminal prosecution." 15 We don't open a file and make those people start 16 coming to court. They don't get arrested. We present that 17 to the grand jury, and then if the grand jury says yes, they 18 should be indicted at this point, we would do it the same old 19 way. We would file it into the District Clerk's office and 20 it would start going to court. So, it leaves the police and 21 the prosecutor's office that discretion that's needed in 22 order to make sure that, you know, situations that are sort 23 of iffy, you know, whether a grand jury wants to decide 24 whether or not an injury to a child was reasonable discipline 25 or not, you know, they still get to decide that without, you 5-1-09 wk 16 1 know, being arrested. Or many times the prosecutor's office 2 decides to go ahead and file charges and get them into the 3 system and try to work things out early on. 4 MS. UECKER: So, this is mainly for custody 5 defendants, defendants who are actually in custody? 6 MS. McCOWAN: It works for all of them. The 7 custody defendants have the additional benefit that they will 8 be notified of their first court date before they're released 9 from jail. But if they make bond before they ever -- before, 10 you know, the court is assigned and the file is opened, then 11 it goes the same way it used to. It would be up to the court 12 administrator to send notice to that defendant or bail 13 bondsmen about the first court date. 14 MR. BARTON: That would be pretty easy for us, 15 because you could just pick the next -- whatever the next 16 grand jury is, if it's Bruce's or ours. They'll get that 17 next court date. We'll know from the beginning; we won't 18 have to wait for it to be assigned. Because we don't have 19 the same grand jury system where one grand jury sends cases 20 to each court. Each court has its own grand jury. 21 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah, it's more a factor in getting 22 that defendant to court, no matter which court he's going to, 23 at some point before indictment. And so, if you have a court 24 date regularly scheduled once a month, you can say that 25 everybody who's arrested the prior month is going to get that 5-1-09 wk 17 1 first court date the next month, or some variation of that. 2 MS. WILKE: Jana, what is it you do on the court 3 date? Because there's no arraignment; they haven't been 4 indicted yet. We have a standing discovery order. So, what 5 is it that's addressed at that court setting, and is there 6 one or are there multiple? Because, as you just mentioned, 7 sometimes it can take three months to get a lab report. So, 8 are they set every month, and when they come to court, what 9 is it that they're doing? Because their attorney has to come 10 with them, so we're paying the attorney to show up to court 11 and do what? 12 MS. McCOWAN: Well, there can be multiple settings 13 before then. We have -- our coordinators decided to call it 14 pre-indictment docket call, and they usually come probably 15 once a month up until that point. Sometimes it's a matter of 16 waiting for, you know, a retained attorney to get paid before 17 he's willing to work the case out. A lot more times we put 18 pressure on him; we make some offers that maybe are just 19 slightly better than they're going to get if they wait till 20 an indictment to encourage them to go ahead and plead guilty 21 and resolve their situation. What can happen is, discovery 22 can go on, offers can be communicated and exchanged. The 23 Judge can know if there's any problems that are being brought 24 up. For instance, if somebody needs a mental health 25 examination or has been found incompetent, and there has to 5-1-09 wk 18 1 be some sort of a situation where there's going to be, you 2 know, the brief hearings to send them off to wherever it is 3 that Kerr County -- I guess you send them to the Kerr State 4 Hospital. 5 MS. WILKE: See, those are so far and few between, 6 probably about three a year, so we have a lot -- it seems 7 like we have a lot of defendants coming three months before 8 they get indicted. We have a standing discovery order, so 9 there really shouldn't be any discovery issues, but the 10 attorney's getting paid to come to court and, you know, just 11 make -- I guess, try to hammer out a plea offer. 12 MS. McCOWAN: Right. I think that's the most 13 important thing that happens, is that communication, because 14 when that's going on where you're, you know, communicating by 15 phone or by letter with a defense lawyer, if they don't have 16 their client right there, and they certainly don't if they're 17 in custody, then they have to go make a trip to the jail, 18 which I assume the County also gets billed for. 19 MS. WILKE: Yeah. We're doing a jail docket now, 20 so that's being handled a little different. The jail 21 attorney gets a flat fee, and then we have a prosecutor that 22 handles that. So -- 23 MS. McCOWAN: But that's at the preliminary stage, 24 the very beginning? 25 MS. WILKE: Right. 5-1-09 wk 19 1 MS. McCOWAN: That's in conjunction with what I 2 would call that initial screening. But I think there's still 3 the possibility -- you know, we have some attorneys who want 4 a little bit more information or they want to review the DWI 5 video tape or something like that, so it may not happen 6 before that initial setting. I don't know how diligent your 7 defense bar is about coming in to get their discovery or to 8 -- to communicate their offers, but we've found that ours are 9 -- are more diligent about it when the defendant's sitting 10 right there with them waiting for something to happen. But 11 you're right, it is a court setting where it may not be much 12 more in front of the Judge than the Judge saying -- where'd 13 the Judge go? -- the Judge saying, you know, "Do you need 14 more time?" And then it gets reset. 15 MR. BARTON: So, I guess a corollary to that is, 16 have you seen a decrease in the life span of a case? Let's 17 say from the time a person gets arrested to the time their 18 case is resolved, on average, are you seeing -- 19 MS. McCOWAN: I would say yes. 20 MR. BARTON: -- a decrease? Okay. So, the -- it 21 might -- might be misconstruing to say that because we're 22 having these pre-indictment hearings, that there's going to 23 be an increase in defense attorney costs. We're mostly 24 appointed defense counsel here, and so that's a concern, I'm 25 sure, for the Commissioners. And if -- if by -- and maybe 5-1-09 wk 20 1 another way to ask it is, are you seeing about the same 2 number of hearing dates or court dates set on a case, just 3 that it's moved up in the timeline? 4 MS. McCOWAN: I think I'd have to say yes. I don't 5 know about you, but I would say our average case, you know, 6 if there's not really going to be a trial or something really 7 difficult, probably takes -- and this is just sort of a 8 guess -- six months. You know, maybe as much as six months 9 to resolve. And that six months used to occur after the 10 indictment, so we had that pre -- you know, that three-month 11 period in there before they got indicted. Now you've moved 12 that back where they've already been doing, you know, half of 13 that work before there ever was an indictment. So, at the 14 point when they've been indicted, then you may have a few 15 more settings to hammer out the final details or put it on 16 the trial docket or -- or they just go ahead and plead, you 17 know. Okay, they did get indicted, and so, you know, they 18 were hoping that maybe they weren't going to be. 19 MR. BARTON: Bruce and Lucy, do y'all see that if 20 the Judges were to stick to this docket control order, the 21 scheduling order, and they're going to hold us to, you know, 22 three court dates or so, that we can -- we can kind of keep 23 doing the same thing that we're doing as far as the whole 24 argument that sometimes a defendant just needs to ripen 25 before he's going to plead? He kind of needs to be in the 5-1-09 wk 21 1 system for so long before he's going to plead? 2 MS. McCOWAN: That's pretty much true. 3 MR. BARTON: That by having the pre-indictment 4 docket, you're -- you're getting that -- 5 MS. McCOWAN: You're helping them. 6 MR. BARTON: -- case moving along and churning, and 7 the ripening starts. Instead of the indictment being the 8 trigger point, the arrest is the trigger point. 9 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah, that's the -- that's the 10 statistics that I haven't been able to monitor, 'cause our 11 personal computer software for the county used to age cases 12 based on when they got filed in the clerk's office, so when 13 that didn't happen, you had, you know, 60 or 90 days that 14 weren't counted on the age of that case. But I can tell you, 15 just overall -- in fact, when I think about it, our jail 16 defendants that go to trial, a lot of times we're reaching 17 them now within six to nine months, where it used to be a 18 really good thing to get to them by a year or a year and a 19 half. And so I don't know that that's all attributable to 20 the direct filing, but I think the general movement of cases 21 has kind of kept going. 22 MR. BARTON: Can you talk to us about software? 23 What is -- what solution have you guys found to facilitate? 24 'Cause you've got to be a lot more organized in the 25 prosecutor's office to do this. 5-1-09 wk 22 1 MS. McCOWAN: What do you use currently? 2 MR. BARTON: We don't have anything. It's 3 basically the way things were done in 1975. 4 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah. Williamson County is lucky in 5 the sense that our commissioners have -- we have an I.T. 6 department, and I don't know whether Kerr County does? Okay. 7 And those people are responsible for not only maintaining all 8 the computer and equipment, but also making recommendations 9 about software and stuff. Before I was ever there, they 10 began using a program called Legacy by Tyler Technologies, or 11 also known as Software Group. I guess it's Tyler now. And 12 it is an integrated package in that, you know, the 13 prosecutors have a package, the jail has a package, the 14 clerks have a package. 15 MR. BARTON: Is that what Odyssey is now? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, Odyssey. 17 MR. BARTON: Successor to Legacy. 18 MS. McCOWAN: And we're getting ready to transfer 19 our criminal justice system to Legacy. We're not there yet; 20 we're just getting ready to start configuration. That will 21 probably happen the end of this year. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Legacy or Odyssey? 23 MS. McCOWAN: Odyssey. We have Legacy now; we're 24 going to be using Odyssey. 25 MR. BARTON: Have you found that Odyssey has the 5-1-09 wk 23 1 functionality that you need in the prosecutor's office? 2 MS. McCOWAN: It has a lot of it, because it's very 3 similar to Legacy, which is what we've been using. When we 4 started -- when we changed over to Legacy, the former D.A. 5 had not been using that particular package, and so we started 6 using it and seeing what it could do for us, and I like it 7 plenty well. But once we knew we were going to get Odyssey, 8 we didn't continue to try to investigate more and figure out 9 more and more, 'cause we were beginning Odyssey, so we're 10 really looking forward to that, though. But I know that 11 Tyler has admitted that their prosecutor package is not -- 12 you know, is not where they want it to be. They -- 13 MR. BARTON: They informed us in -- in a 14 teleconference we had -- what was that, a few weeks ago? 15 MR. CURRY: Yeah. 16 MR. BARTON: That they're at least a year out from 17 having the functionality that -- that we would need to do the 18 -- the direct-file system through Odyssey. But it's kind of 19 a good database; it's a good place. 20 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah. I don't know that it's going 21 to be a problem for direct filing. Odyssey doesn't address a 22 lot of the things, like assets forfeitures or bail -- bail 23 bond stuff or the civil things that offices do in the 24 prosecutor package. But I recently got invited to go attend 25 a focus group in Plano where they had prosecutors and 5-1-09 wk 24 1 investigators from about six or seven or eight offices, some 2 that were using, some that are transferring, talk about 3 what's there and what needs to be there. And they have 4 committed to dedicating some manpower to bring the prosecutor 5 package up to what it needs to be. I'm really looking 6 forward to the change. I know that a lot of people aren't, 7 and I keep hearing complaints about the things that they are 8 using it for. But, you know, I sort of attribute that to -- 9 I don't know if I want to say this in front of this entire 10 big group. You know, in some counties, when you've been 11 doing stuff the same way for years and years, it's really 12 difficult to persuade somebody to make a change, you know, on 13 the hope that it might be better. 14 It was really gratifying for me Wednesday, when I 15 did this little presentation to the court administrators. 16 The two court administrators who sponsored us, asked us to 17 come talk about it, were two of the biggest complainers when 18 we thought about changing. They didn't want to do it, 19 weren't happy about it initially, and now to listen to them, 20 you know, talk about it, you would have thought that they 21 were on board all along and that this was the greatest thing. 22 And they said that they would never think about going back to 23 the old system. So, you know, that was -- that was nice to 24 hear after -- after getting adjusted. I think, you know, our 25 generation -- and I say this including myself. Even with, 5-1-09 wk 25 1 like, older generation, this -- you know, we're not used to 2 computers and -- and the things that are happening. But 3 society is speeding up, and you got to have that technology 4 available to -- to keep up with it and to keep track of 5 things, because it -- it's pretty bad for a criminal case to 6 get lost. And I know that in lots of smaller counties, 7 somebody might sit in jail for a while, even as much as a 8 month or longer, without anybody in a prosecutor's office 9 even realizing they're there. You know, that's a really bad 10 thing. 11 So, this is one of those ways that, you know, it 12 helps to sort of start tracking cases early on and keeping 13 them through the system. And you'll have to work to get your 14 -- some way in your office to -- to keep track of them 15 electronically, unless you're really good and can -- people 16 don't like to come in my office, 'cause I have files in 17 there, but I know which ones they are. Are there other 18 questions about direct filing, though? Because I think, you 19 know, I've tried to simplify these little presentations that 20 I make, 'cause it's not rocket science. It requires some 21 slight business modifications for each office, maybe a little 22 -- a few different personnel assignments, a few changes in 23 job responsibilities, but it's not hard. It's fairly easy to 24 implement. And it's the kind of thing that we did some test 25 runs initially to see how things went. We -- we chose a 5-1-09 wk 26 1 group of 25 cases and let the attorneys know we were going to 2 file them, and gave them court dates, and the judges would do 3 it. So, we did some test runs along the way before we dumped 4 everything into the system. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Do y'all share calendars between 6 your different prosecutors electronically? 7 MS. McCOWAN: You mean, like, through Outlook? 8 Or -- 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yeah, anyhow, any way. Fax, 10 e-mail. 11 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah, we can have Outlook where I can 12 give anybody access to my calendar so they can see it, and -- 13 I don't mean everybody can see my calendar, but people that 14 need to can. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, thank you. 16 MS. McCOWAN: The docketing system is something 17 different. Our court administrators have their own package, 18 and they are the ones that generate the -- the dockets. I 19 think that maybe my secretaries have the ability to go in and 20 look at those so they can pull cases ahead of time. But, you 21 know, there's certain rights and -- and rules that any 22 software package can have where it can authorize certain 23 people to view and certain people to change and do that sort 24 of thing. 25 MR. BARTON: How does the prosecutor, at the time 5-1-09 wk 27 1 of magistration, who makes the decision on whether this thing 2 goes forward or not, clue in the coordinator on, "Hey, this 3 is a new name to add, this is a new case, here's the 4 information"? 5 MS. McCOWAN: It's actually coming from the Clerk's 6 office. Let me do the short version of a case through the 7 office. Defendant gets in jail. Paperwork gets left with 8 the jail. Before the magistrate is going to give him his 9 little warnings in the morning and set his bail, we go over 10 and take a look at that paperwork, which includes the 11 probable cause affidavit. If it looks like it's a decent 12 enough case and there's no real questions to be asked, we 13 say, "Yes, we're going to accept the charges." We fill out a 14 cover page that goes to the magistrate. That gives us the 15 opportunity to say this defendant needs a higher bond than 16 the normal schedule that the judges have asked them to use 17 for whatever reason, and they can either follow that or not. 18 And then the defendant goes to the magistrate. There, he 19 gets his regular warnings about what he's been charged with 20 and what his bail amount's going to be. He's told that he 21 has a court date on a certain date, and he fills out a piece 22 of paperwork that says that court date, and he signs it, and 23 the original goes to the clerk's office and the copy goes 24 with him, so he's got that piece of paper to show whoever he 25 needs to when he's supposed to go to court the first day, and 5-1-09 wk 28 1 which court he's going to. 2 I skipped a step. After we accept the charges, we 3 can hand it to the District Clerk's office and they also 4 check the computer to see if there's a case that's going to 5 attract it anywhere. If there's codefendants, we let them 6 know so they can link them in the computer, and then they 7 assign the cause number, which then determines the court 8 date. So, the magistrate gives them their court date. If 9 they're in jail, they get brought over to court on that date, 10 and their lawyer has been notified and they show up, and 11 everybody's there. If they make bond and they show up in 12 court, sometimes they have a lawyer hired; sometimes they 13 don't. If they're going to hire a lawyer, then they get 14 reset, so that they've been told. And that's another area 15 where it moves things up, because if you wait until after 16 indictment and they still haven't got a lawyer that they're 17 going to hire, you have to wait for them to hire a lawyer and 18 do all that stuff. 19 First court date. By that time, we generally have 20 not only the probable cause affidavit, but we've run a 21 criminal history, and hopefully gotten an offense report in 22 from the police so that we have more, you know, complete 23 information about the defendant. Many times on, you know, 24 ordinary, run-of-the-mill, routine cases, we can make a 25 recommendation that first day. I really push my prosecutors 5-1-09 wk 29 1 to get their recommendations made early, because the earlier 2 they know, you know, the earlier that negotiation starts, the 3 better off we are. If they don't plead the first setting or 4 the second setting, eventually, when it's ready, it goes to 5 the grand jury and they continue going to that same court. 6 If at any time they decide they want to enter a plea of 7 guilty, we prepare an information that we've already got in 8 the file, and we just file that information, that date, in 9 that same cause number, and they plead guilty and go on their 10 way. If they've never plead guilty and it gets indicted, the 11 indictment goes in that same cause number. They're not 12 opening separate files or separate lines in the clerk's 13 package now; it's all in that same cause number. And a 14 prosecutor is going to be the one that's made a decision 15 about whether or not there's going to be separate cause 16 numbers for separate offenses, or whether or not offenses can 17 be grouped into a single cause number. If they don't plead 18 guilty, then eventually, you know, they're indicted and they 19 have their trial, and they're found guilty most of the time. 20 MS. WILKE: So, Jana, in -- is the pre-indictment 21 docket handled with the indicted docket, or do y'all have -- 22 MS. McCOWAN: Yes, it's done at the same time. We 23 don't do separate days. The district courts have done it 24 differently. I think one court says okay, they have, like, 25 all-day dockets Wednesdays and Thursdays; they're going to do 5-1-09 wk 30 1 the pre-indictment cases Wednesday morning. So, they just 2 add them to a regular docket. 3 MS. WILKE: So, the way we're doing it now is they 4 get arraigned, they get indicted, they are summoned to court 5 and arraigned. When they're arraigned, they're given one 6 pretrial setting, because then we have a standing discovery 7 order, and then they're set for trial. And then if a plea's 8 worked out between those two dates, then we obviously set 9 them on an earlier docket to plead them before the trial 10 setting. So, really, we're -- we've got an arraignment and a 11 pretrial setting, and it seems like this would add more 12 settings, because then once they're indicted, then you still 13 have to arraign them and set them for -- for at least trial, 14 so it just seems like it would be adding more in our county. 15 MS. McCOWAN: Potentially, it does. Because we -- 16 we had only one of our district courts really put a 17 limitation on -- and he still follows that. After there's an 18 indictment, he has a first setting, which is called docket 19 call. Two announcement dockets, which are just kind of that 20 -- you know, what's still going on, and then it gets set for 21 pretrial or jury trial. The reason we encourage our judges 22 to move away from, you know, setting stuff right away for 23 pretrial and jury trial is it really puts an additional case 24 load on the prosecutors, because you don't know exactly 25 what's going to trial. And this way you can focus better on 5-1-09 wk 31 1 your trial cases if not everything is set for pretrial and 2 jury trial. You know, by -- 3 MS. WILKE: They're setting them throughout the 4 month so that it's not all on one docket, but, you know, 5 somebody might get set for trial next month. But, you know, 6 there's some things that are set three, four months out down 7 the line. 8 MS. McCOWAN: Our judges don't put it on a trial 9 docket until it's really a trial case. 10 MR. BARTON: I think there's a lot of wisdom in 11 that. 12 MS. WILKE: That's what we had been doing, and it 13 wasn't working, so now we're trying this other way. Because, 14 you know, they request another pretrial, another pretrial, 15 another pretrial. So, you know, they're limited. Whereas 16 before they had, you know, like, maybe five pretrial settings 17 to show up for, now they've got one, and then it's set for 18 trial. So -- 19 MR. BARTON: Is Judge Williams -- after the case 20 has finished its 28.01 hearing, then there's a gap. The guy 21 doesn't show up for court until the case goes to trial? 22 MS. WILKE: Until he's set for trial. The nice 23 thing about that is the attorney's not getting paid to come 24 sit in court and say, "Hey, we can't hash it out," and set 25 again and again. Seems like it's adding court days, and 5-1-09 wk 32 1 thereby attorney's fees. 2 MS. McCOWAN: Well, are the attorneys really good 3 about going to -- coming your office doing discovery? 4 MS. WILKE: Some of them are, not all of them. We 5 e-mail the discovery; that's not an issue. It's automatic. 6 We e-mail it the second we know about it. 7 MS. McCOWAN: So they get it whether they want it 8 or not? 9 MS. WILKE: Yes. They get it, yes, so they don't 10 have to come to our office to get the discovery. The way 11 we've been doing the tapes, which I -- we may or may not 12 continue to do, is they get an order saying you go get your 13 own tape from the agency who produced it, so we don't have to 14 deal with them like that. So, if they want a tape, they go 15 get it. If they don't want it, then they don't get it, so 16 it's entirely up to them. So, as far as discovery, they get 17 it whether they want it or not. It's automatic from our 18 office, just a click of a button. 19 MS. McCOWAN: I tell you how I think our judges 20 have solved that issue of, you know, paying them by the 21 individual court date, is they don't. They pay what's 22 essentially almost a flat fee. 23 MS. WILKE: Okay. 24 MS. McCOWAN: For a criminal, if it's a plea -- 25 MS. WILKE: And I think that's a great idea, flat 5-1-09 wk 33 1 fee. 2 MS. McCOWAN: You know, if it's a complicated plea, 3 or goes right up to trial and then plead, then they're going 4 to get -- you know, the Judge has discretion to award them 5 more if it's a trial or a different -- 6 MS. WILKE: I think it would work with that -- with 7 a flat fee. Otherwise, we're going -- 8 MS. McCOWAN: If they get paid a certain amount 9 when they come to court no matter what it is, yeah, their 10 incentive is not to work it out. 11 MR. CURRY: In fact, I think that's an essential 12 part of this. 13 MS. WILKE: To make it work, is a flat fee. 14 MS. McCOWAN: That's not direct filing. That's a 15 judicial county -- 16 MS. WILKE: Right. 17 MS. McCOWAN: -- decision. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you mind -- we have -- 19 all the Commissioners are in here, and we can spell "law" 20 between the four of us. Would you talk just a minute about 21 that -- what was the last issue we were just talking about? 22 MS. McCOWAN: The fees to the Court-appointed 23 counsel. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the set fee. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Flat fee. 5-1-09 wk 34 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Flat fee, set fee. Could 2 you talk about that just a moment? 3 MS. McCOWAN: Now, I don't know where that comes 4 from exactly, whether it's the judges who make that 5 determination, but I know that all -- lots of different 6 counties do it differently. And in Williamson County, 7 someone with authority agreed that a felony plea would be 8 worth a particular amount of money. I don't know what the 9 amount of money is. I suspect it's somewhere between $300 10 and $500. I could be wrong. So, if they get appointed to a 11 felony case and they make a couple of the court appearances 12 and then they plead it, they're probably going to get that 13 amount of money. If they make -- you know, if they have to 14 do a whole lot more than what the normal situation is, the 15 Judge has the authority and the ability to take that into 16 discretion and award them some additional fees. And then, 17 clearly, a trial fee is different than that, too. But, you 18 know, 95 to 98 percent of the cases are done through a plea 19 or a letter to the County Attorney or something like that, 20 and when they're disposed of, they get that flat fee. 21 MS. WILKE: So, does Williamson County have a flat 22 fee? Is that how the attorneys get paid? 23 MS. McCOWAN: I think -- I'd be lying if I said 24 yes, absolutely. It's not -- I don't know if there's a 25 schedule or just sort of an unwritten agreement among the 5-1-09 wk 35 1 judges. The judges have the discretion on the amount to 2 award, and some of them are very conservative with the 3 State's money. But -- but they're the ones who sign off on 4 the vouchers and write in the amount, and it's my 5 understanding that it's a particular amount for most cases, 6 unless there's something special about them. 7 MS. WILKE: But some counties actually have a -- a 8 schedule where, you know, a state jail felony plea, you get 9 this much; first-degree felony plea, you get this much; 10 trial, you get this much? 11 MS. McCOWAN: Yeah. I don't see a problem with 12 that. 13 MR. McCULLOUCH: But are you saying that y'all are 14 able to dispose of up to 98 percent of your felony cases with 15 just kind of a -- using this direct file, flat-fee type -- 16 MS. McCOWAN: I'm not saying that direct file does 17 that. Most felony cases are disposed of without a trial. 18 MR. McCULLOUCH: Right. 19 MS. McCOWAN: So, whether it's -- it ultimately 20 ends up being a plea of guilty or an agreed plea to a 21 misdemeanor where we've sent it to the County Attorney's 22 office, or a dismissal, or a no-bill, if they've been 23 appointed, they're going to get paid, you know, something for 24 that case. And the judges are the ones who decide, and it's 25 my understanding they're sort of -- I never was a defense 5-1-09 wk 36 1 lawyer in Williamson County, so I don't know what the amount 2 is. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What I did hear from you, if I 4 understood you correctly, was on felony cases, the 5 direct-file system has allowed you to dispose of 6 approximately -- it kind of leveled out at one-third? 7 MS. McCOWAN: One-third. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Of those cases, pre-indictment. 9 MS. McCOWAN: Before indictment. It's reduced the 10 load on our grand juries. We've been able to reduce the -- 11 we used to meet seven times every three months. Now we 12 dropped back to six, 'cause we don't need them that extra 13 day. They don't hear as many cases on a day, because, you 14 know, if they're willing to plead guilty, there's no reason 15 to present it to the grand jury just to file a different 16 charge. Are there other questions? I obviously have a bias 17 in favor of this system because I helped, you know, design it 18 for Williamson County, but I think it can be modified to fit 19 just about any situation, with the idea that you have to look 20 at this and eliminate where the delays are in your own 21 personal system. And so, you know, my three key components 22 are early screening, filing direct so you have a file open, 23 and then pre-indictment court dates. But it can be modified 24 in, frankly, any way you want. 25 MS. WILKE: Jana, something we talked about back at 5-1-09 wk 37 1 the office is jurisdiction of a District Court to summon 2 somebody that has not been indicted. That's kind of an 3 up-in-the-air issue, but never been brought up. You say it's 4 been done since the '70's in Houston, but -- 5 MS. McCOWAN: Right. We looked at that, because we 6 were worried the somebody might say, "Well, I still want to 7 go to the Municipal Court Judge for this." But, you know, 8 what the reality of it is, is I don't think there's any law 9 that specifically says that it's only upon indictment that 10 jurisdiction transfers, because a District Court has original 11 jurisdiction of a felony case. And, you know, they're not 12 going to have the District Judge mad at them because they 13 went to the J.P. to get something they knew the District 14 Judge wasn't going to give them. So, we've not had any 15 lawyers say, "No, you can't do that yet. You have to be 16 indicted before the District Judge can do anything." 17 MS. WILKE: And in Williamson County, how -- do you 18 have magistrates all day long magistrating people, or do they 19 just come in in the morning and magistrate people? That's -- 20 MS. McCOWAN: I think it takes them most of the day 21 because of the misdemeanor cases. We're usually in and out 22 of there within 30 to 45 minutes in the mornings, unless it's 23 a heavy day for felonies. But the magistrates there, you 24 know 8:00 to 5:00-ish, and on weekends also, same day. We 25 have two of them. 5-1-09 wk 38 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a regular magistrate's 2 office, right? It's not rotating through different -- 3 MS. McCOWAN: Right, it's one that our judges 4 established by agreement. I understand the J.P.'s, I think, 5 do a rotation. Same -- same result, just different people 6 doing it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And different hours. Not just 8 an hour in the morning. 9 MS. McCOWAN: Right. 10 MS. UECKER: Jana, I'm wondering -- and I don't 11 know. Right now we have two separate grand jury -- each 12 court has a grand jury every month. And I'm wondering -- no 13 rock throwing, okay? -- if maybe we might not be better 14 serving the system by going to a one grand jury system. 15 Because the cases basically -- most of them are already going 16 to be assigned anyway. 17 MS. McCOWAN: You know, I don't want to dictate 18 what -- what the County Attorneys are going to be doing. 19 That's the sort of decision that comes from within the 20 county. I mean, your judges can do it any way they want. 21 MS. WILKE: So, what are you saying? Have one 22 grand jury that serves 198th and 216th instead of two 23 separate? 24 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 25 MS. McCOWAN: Basically, you would have a 198th 5-1-09 wk 39 1 grand jury that lasts for a certain period of time, and then 2 a 216th grand jury. But it doesn't matter; they can hear any 3 case that's -- 4 MS. WILKE: Right. 5 MS. McCOWAN: -- brought before them. 6 MS. WILKE: Right. 7 MS. UECKER: Right. 8 MS. WILKE: So -- yeah. So, the 216th grand jury 9 could indict a 198th case. 10 MS. McCOWAN: Yes. 11 MS. UECKER: 'Cause it would have already been 12 assigned anyway. So the case is already assigned anyway, 13 unless it pled. 14 MS. WILKE: Be one grand jury for both. 15 MR. BARTON: It seems like the need for that is 16 decreased when you have somebody on the pre-indictment 17 docket, 'cause their case is already churning along, and the 18 indictment is not as important a triggering event -- 19 MS. McCOWAN: Right. 20 MR. BARTON: -- under the direct-file system. 21 MS. McCOWAN: Right. 22 MR. BARTON: So, the necessity to get a case in to 23 a grand jury isn't as -- as great as it is now, because right 24 now, we can't initiate a case until it's really in the grand 25 jury, except for what we're doing out at the jail. So -- 5-1-09 wk 40 1 MS. UECKER: Well, that's for the 30 percent now. 2 Then you have the other 60 percent -- 3 MS. McCOWAN: Well, the other 60 percent, they're 4 floating along and their cases are being shortened in the 5 long run by doing it closer to arrest. It's just -- arrest 6 is the triggering event, not indictment. 7 MS. WILKE: Jana, I had another question. You said 8 this helps you screen cases. For example, the case that you 9 mentioned, I mean, clearly, just by looking at a P.C. 10 affidavit, you would know that that's not a felony. But 11 there's other cases, like the hydrocodone case and other 12 cases like that, that you really need to read the offense 13 report before, so you can't make that decision in 30 minutes. 14 MS. McCOWAN: No, but our magistrate can hold over 15 that defendant and not magistrate them until we've decided 16 whether or not we're going to accept the charges. And so I 17 can take that file back to my office and contact somebody 18 from the law enforcement agency and say, "Hey, what's going 19 on here? Tell me more about it." And we frequently do that, 20 you know, probably once or twice a week. Whoever's handling 21 that part, you know, bring something back to ask further 22 questions before they make that decision. And we just fax 23 over to the magistrate's office that little sheet that says, 24 "I accept charges," or "I decline." Or refer them -- 25 MS. WILKE: So, do you have a prosecutor that works 5-1-09 wk 41 1 just on that? Because now that you go to the jail, you said, 2 and then you come back, and you may have to make some phone 3 calls. 4 MS. McCOWAN: We have three intake attorneys in our 5 office, one for each court -- one for each district court. 6 They're assigned to the court. They handle the state jail 7 felony docket themselves, and they screen all cases that come 8 through the courts to make sure preliminary stuff is in 9 there, so they're the ones that go to the magistrate's office 10 and do that initial screening. It really doesn't take that 11 long. We're talking about, you know, three or four cases on 12 any given day, 10 to 15 on a heavy day -- a Monday, or 13 sometimes Fridays, the new Monday, or following a three-day 14 weekend there might be, you know, 15, 20 cases. 15 MR. BARTON: So, the person -- the prosecutors that 16 are responsible for your state jail docket are also doing the 17 screening for all cases? 18 MS. McCOWAN: Yes. 19 MR. BARTON: That's great. 20 MS. WILKE: For the sake of curiosity, how many 21 prosecutors do you have in your office? 22 MS. McCOWAN: Thirteen, counting the elected D.A. 23 Nine of those people are assigned to the district courts. 24 MS. WILKE: And those nine are the same as are 25 going out to look at the P.C. affidavits? 5-1-09 wk 42 1 MS. McCOWAN: No, just three of those. 2 MS. WILKE: Just three, okay. 3 MS. McCOWAN: One for each court. And then me; I 4 take a rotation, just because that way I can sort of keep my 5 finger on what's coming in. Thank you all so much for having 6 me. 7 MS. WILKE: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I apologize for the 9 interruption. We do our workshops where we get everything on 10 the record. 11 MS. McCOWAN: I know. That's all right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anybody else have 13 anything to offer in connection with the workshop that's 14 posted? The workshop will be adjourned. 15 (Workshop was adjourned at 11:15 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-1-09 wk 43 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 5th day of May, 2009. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-1-09 wk