1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, May 11, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 11, 2009 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request from Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing, a 501(c)(7) organization, to be added to the 5 nonprofit list for reduced rate at HCYEC 8 6 1.2 Presentation on Texas Fleet Fuel's fuel cost management program 11 7 1.3 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the 8 submission by Kerr County Juvenile Probation for American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009; 9 Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Formula Grant Program funding for FY 2009-2010 33 10 1.4 Inform the Court that District and County Courts 11 have been approved for e-filing from Supreme Court of Texas 39 12 1.5 Consider/discuss, approve rental agreement with 13 Ikon for two Ricoh MP 5000 copy machines; authorize County Judge to sign same 39 14 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on bid 15 made by City of Kerrville for property currently held in trust by Kerr County 41 16 1.7 First Responder Report from Eric Maloney 42 17 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 18 acceptance of Final Plat for Francisco's Place 55 19 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set public hearing for revision of plat for Tracts 8, 20 9 and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes 56 21 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to name a private road Fossil Ridge Rd. per 911 guidelines 57 22 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 23 implementation of the burn ban 58 24 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on amendment to lease for the Thad M. Ziegler 25 Building which is currently being used for Adult Probation Department 59 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 11, 2009 2 PAGE 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 close Riverside Drive from Texas Arts & Crafts west property line to KCYEC east property line 4 on May 22, 2009, from 5 p.m. until 11 p.m. 65 5 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to vacate Lots 216-222 in Center Point Estates, 6 Unit II; set public hearing if required 67 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to modify Kerr County Information Technology policy, 8 Court Order #28680, Dated June 14, 2004 79 9 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt resolution commending retiring Airport 10 Board President Roger Bobertz for his years of service on the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport 11 Board of Directors 113 12 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding whether or not to allow non-certified 13 burn managers to perform prescribed burns during a burn ban 115 14 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt 15 a resolution opposing the "Blair Holts" Firearm Licensing and Record Act of 2009 122 16 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 17 authorizing a Commissioner or County Judge to represent the County at City Council meetings 18 concerning any agenda item relating to funding of airport capital projects or EIC 124 19 4.1 Pay Bills 134 20 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 4.3 Late Bills --- 21 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 137 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 138 23 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 141 24 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on potential real estate acquisitions (Exec. Session) 145 25 --- Adjourned 145 4 1 On Monday, May 11, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 (Commissioner Letz was not present.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 9 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 10 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 11 time, Monday, May 11, 2009, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 12 Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Please stand for a word of 14 prayer and followed by the pledge of allegiance. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 17 any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be 18 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is 19 your opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your 20 mind. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would 21 ask that you fill out a participation form. There should be 22 some located at the rear of the room. If -- if, for some 23 reason, you haven't filled out a participation form and 24 desire to be heard on an agenda item, get my attention in 25 some manner at -- at the time that item is called, and we'll 5-11-09 5 1 see that you have the opportunity to be heard. But by 2 filling out the participation form, it helps me to know that 3 there's someone that wishes to be recognized and heard on 4 that item. But right now, if there's any member of the 5 public or the audience that wishes to be heard on any matter 6 that is not a listed agenda item, we'd ask that you come 7 forward now. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. 8 Commissioner Oehler, what do you have for us this morning? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was informed last week that 10 the burn ban signs that we approved Road and Bridge to 11 purchase for basically other homeowners' associations and 12 things, to put the signs up at their entrances and be posted 13 in several places around the county, are in. So that people 14 wishing to purchase those can go to Road and Bridge and they 15 can -- they can go from there. They'll give them some 16 options of the way they can have those and the way they 17 should be posted, and also Road and Bridge will install them. 18 And it's probably best if they do, so that they're set 19 properly and that they kind of match all of our other signs. 20 Another thing is, I understand that the Auditor's contract is 21 up, and the District Judges are going to be -- if not already 22 have renewed that. If anybody has any comments to make, good 23 or bad, I feel like we need to do that to the judges before 24 they sign this contract with our Auditor for another two 25 years. 5-11-09 6 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the term of that contract? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two years, it runs. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: When does it commence? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: June. June 1, from what I 5 understand after talking to Karl Prohl the other day. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But otherwise, we don't 8 really have any input. They're the ones that do it. And I'd 9 encourage anybody that has anything to say about it to make 10 it known. That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to ask the 13 Commissioner a question. On the burn ban signs, Bruce, are 14 we going to put them on roadways coming into Kerr County? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we're going to put 16 them in a couple locations. I don't think we've decided 17 exactly where yet, but I think Road and Bridge will decide 18 where. One thing is, they're going to have to be changed to 19 reflect what the burn ban is at this particular time, so it's 20 going to take a little bit of coordination and remembering 21 that whenever we modify that, well, somebody has to change 22 it. And the subdivision that contacted me is going to do 23 their own and be responsible for reflecting what the status 24 of the burn ban is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 5-11-09 7 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just wanted to 2 remind everyone about this coming Thursday, May 14th, and 3 we're having dinner on the grounds, and that would be 12 noon 4 to 1 o'clock. And, again, what we're doing is just trying to 5 get the entire community of Kerr County that -- which 6 includes west Kerr County, and we'd like the old-timers to 7 come in and break bread with us and -- and their neighbors, 8 and just have a good time. Just a good time. By the way, 9 I've invited the City Council. I did not invite the new 10 elected official, but we'll get to that later today somehow, 11 and so that's this coming Thursday, 12 noon to 1 o'clock, out 12 on the front lawn. Be there or be square. Hear, hear. 13 Amen. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bring our own food, right? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bring your own food. And 16 water. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And water. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And whatever else you -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just congratulations to the 23 newly elected City Council people, Mr. Motheral and 24 Ms. Keeble. Look forward to working with them in the future. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 5-11-09 8 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I, too, extend my congratulations to 3 those two individuals who prevailed in the city elections, 4 and we've got a lot of City/County business to -- to work on, 5 and I'll look forward to working with those two, as well as 6 all the remainder on the City Council and the new City 7 Manager. Let's get on with our agenda, if we might. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I would like to say 9 one thing about -- Commissioner Letz had called and has 10 business down in Boerne for a little while, and then he will 11 come directly here. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: My information was that he should be 13 here somewhere 10:00 to 10:30. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. First item on the agenda is 16 to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on a 17 request from Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing, a 501(c)(7) 18 organization, to be added to the nonprofit list for the 19 reduced rate at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 20 Mr. Steve Wetz is here. Mr. Wetz? 21 MR. WETZ: Good morning. Thank you for seeing us 22 this morning. My understanding, the last bit of information 23 that we needed to supply to y'all would be the copy of a 24 donation for scholarship that we presented to the Kerrville 25 4-H club. And I have copies of a check and receipt. 5-11-09 9 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Fantastic. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 3 MR. WETZ: And that is the -- the money that y'all 4 requested that they submit to the -- to a nonprofit 5 organization for scholarships here in Kerr County. And is 6 there any -- I'm kind of new to what's going on here. I just 7 got sent as a representative this morning to make sure that 8 there wasn't any other questions that y'all had that needed 9 to be answered, so y'all can make a decision and put this to 10 bed. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any more 12 questions. You've met what I desired to see, and so I'm 13 happy with it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this -- is this going to 15 be a $250 scholarship or a $500 -- I noticed before when 16 Ms. Hyatt came, she talked about using 500 for a scholarship. 17 Is this a down payment on it, or is this it? 18 MR. WETZ: To my understanding, that was it. Now, 19 if there needs to be some additional funding, then we just -- 20 that needs to be discussed. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, any scholarship is a 22 good scholarship. 23 MR. WETZ: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wetz, I assume that this 25 scholarship program that the association is initiating here 5-11-09 10 1 is something that's going to be an ongoing effort on their 2 part, as opposed to just a one-time -- 3 MR. WETZ: Sure. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- situation for the purpose of 5 qualifying here? 6 MR. WETZ: Sure. No, it's my understanding that 7 y'all wish for this to happen to be able to maintain that 8 nonprofit status, and I think as long as they can use the 9 nonprofit status, they'll continue to make that yearly 10 donation. So -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. Any 12 questions? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for -- I move that we 14 approve the Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing organization to 15 be added to the nonprofit list for a reduced rate at the Hill 16 Country Youth Exhibit Center. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 19 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you 25 very much, Mr. Wetz. 5-11-09 11 1 MR. WETZ: Thank y'all very much for taking the 2 time. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to the second item, a 4 presentation on Texas Fleet Fuel's fuel cost management 5 program. Mr. Williams? If you'll give us your name and 6 address and tell us who you're with, why, we'd appreciate it. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, my name is William "Bill" 8 Williams. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great name. (Laughter.) 10 MR. WILLIAMS: And that's the truth. I've never 11 been able to talk to myself before at any meeting I've been 12 to, but I'm going to try it out this morning. (Laughter.) 13 I'm with Texas Fleet Fuel out of Austin, Texas. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you want to keep one? 15 MR. WILLIAMS: And what we are, we are a management 16 program for fuel that we sell to businesses, both commercial 17 and governmental businesses. My particular job with the 18 company is government businesses that we sell to. Let me 19 give you a little bit of insight on Texas Fleet Fuel. We 20 have 75 years of experience in the business of petroleum; 21 diesel, gasoline, and alternate fuels, propane. We're 22 located in Austin, Texas. We also have the license program 23 for the Fuelman program that's all nationwide, nearly in the 24 50 states, and we have the capability of supplying fuel to 25 you through Texas Fleet Fuel into these 50 states. You can 5-11-09 12 1 get fuel and still be billed and handled directly with us out 2 of Austin, Texas, with a good old computer system. Easy to 3 do today, I guess. Are you familiar with the Fuelman 4 program? Have you heard of Fuelman before? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Fuelman is a card system 8 operated out of Atlanta, Georgia. It started about 35, 40 9 years ago, and believe it or not, it originated in New 10 Orleans, Louisiana. All the oil companies was down there, I 11 guess, in a meeting, and they was discussing what they could 12 do to enable people like yourselves to buy fuel directly from 13 them at a wholesale price. And over the 40 years, it's 14 progressed and changed and progressed and changed until it 15 finally got defined, I guess, and the ten years I've been 16 here, it's been a very successful business. What we do, we 17 supply fuel, both on-site and off-site. And I believe you 18 all do both; am I right? I'm going to start the on-site fuel 19 first. 20 On-site fuel, we supply the fuel to your tanks on 21 consignment. We put our card readers on the tanks that 22 monitors every gallon of fuel that you get, and we monitor 23 this fuel. We give to you a detailed report every Monday 24 morning, every Monday -- every month, every quarter, and 25 annually of each and every transaction, each and every 5-11-09 13 1 vehicle that the fuel goes to, the person's name in your 2 organization that put the fuel in there, the time and date 3 the fuel went in there, your cost, your mileage. Everything 4 that you're looking for in the report is in this report. It 5 tells you the prices that you pay for the fuel. You're 6 paying 20 cents taxes, unless you -- it's off-road, and 7 sometimes it's -- it's -- if you use our off-road card, which 8 I'll get into later, it's tax-free. We put the fuel in 9 there. We supply the cards to operate this system with, and 10 the same cards that we use in there can be used to get fuel 11 at service stations -- 85,000 service stations throughout the 12 whole United States. 13 In the report, it designates where you got the 14 fuel. If you got it on-site on your own premises or you 15 bought it at a service station, it will tell you where that 16 fuel was purchased at. In doing this, the card system -- if 17 you look in front of your book, you will see a card that we 18 use. Each vehicle that you have has a card, and that's to 19 give you a complete reporting of each and every vehicle that 20 you have. The white card is a pin card that we give to each 21 person in your organization that you authorize to buy fuel. 22 You have to use both of those cards to get fuel. You go up 23 to the tank, you -- the card readers belong to us, both 24 inside and outside, but in this particular instance, we're 25 talking about on-site. You just go up to our card reader. 5-11-09 14 1 We maintain this card reader; there's no cost for this card 2 reader. Lightning strikes it, we replace it. If you run 3 over it with a bulldozer, we'll have to talk a little bit, 4 though. (Laughter.) 5 But you just put your card in and follow the 6 instructions. It will say put in your pin number. It'll say 7 enter your odometer reading of your vehicle. Sixty seconds, 8 you're gone. Through a dedicated phone line is the only cost 9 that you have in this system, other than the tank. It takes 10 this message directly to our office in Austin, Texas, and it 11 records in your memory bank all the transactions of that 12 particular purchase. And on Monday morning, the good old 13 computer spits it out, sends it back to you in a form, which 14 if you look in the book that I gave you, it shows you the 15 form that we use and how it comes in to you, and it keeps it 16 in there on a monthly basis and a quarterly basis and an 17 annual basis. And there's no cost for this service, either. 18 As a matter of fact, you're out nothing except a dedicated 19 phone line hooked up directly to us. 20 You only pay for the fuel that comes out of the 21 tank. No matter what problems may be there, the fuel belongs 22 to us until you use it. There's no evaporation problems that 23 you have with it. There's no additional cost you have. You 24 pay for exactly what you draw out of the tank. If you're not 25 using any fuel, it's not costing you anything. If we cannot 5-11-09 15 1 save you money and make your purchasing of fuel more 2 adaptable more easily, we have no business being here. But 3 if you look into our book there I gave to you, in the back, a 4 lot of references that we have. When we sell to counties and 5 cities and schools like yours, and you see this, you see how 6 many of them we sell to in the central Texas area. 7 Basically, our area runs from Waco to San Antonio, and -- but 8 this is about as far west as we go, and then east, we go to 9 Giddings. Other franchise units serve the other areas, but 10 it doesn't mean you can't go into there and get fuel. 11 Now, on the service station, the cards that you 12 have will work at the service station. You just go up to the 13 service stations -- those cards readers belong to us. If 14 they're inside -- not -- a lot of them is pay at the pump, so 15 you just go up to the pump, swipe your card and follow the 16 instructions the same way you would on off-site. Through the 17 same system, your transaction is immediately sent to your 18 memory bank in Austin. It is recorded and sent back to you 19 every Monday morning. You have a seven-day turnaround on 20 information. I don't believe there's any other card company 21 that can do this but us. They can do it on a monthly basis. 22 Far as I know, we're the only ones that can -- that do it on 23 a weekly basis. 24 This is good for you, because if you have a 25 problem, you have a question, it's within seven days, and 5-11-09 16 1 that's good, because so much can happen in the fuel business 2 as you see now. Pricing is predicated on the use of the 3 OPIS, Oil Price and Information Services. This is the entity 4 that puts out the prices from the oil companies every 5 Thursday morning at 9 o'clock. Oil companies do not put out 6 a price list under their own name. They never have. So, Oil 7 Pricing and Information Services is the entity supplied by 8 the oil companies, and I'm sure they give them prices to put 9 in there. There's nine oil companies, and if you look in 10 your book, you'll see a copy of this price sheet. It comes 11 out every Thursday morning. We go by that price on gasoline 12 and diesel, at the low rack price. The reason we can go by 13 the low rack price, because that's the lowest price the oil 14 companies have, is because of the magnitude of fuel that we 15 sell. We sell in excess of over two billion gallons of fuel 16 a year. Sounds like a lot of fuel, but it's a small portion 17 of what's used. 18 They take this price. We add your tax to it. Your 19 tax is 20 cents a gallon. The tax on gasoline is 39 cents a 20 gallon, and diesel is 44 and a half cents a gallon, but you 21 only pay 20 cents a gallon because of your government 22 affiliation. We add that price to it and we add our markup 23 to that, and that's what you pay us. You do business 24 directly with us, Texas Fleet Fuel. We invoice you. We have 25 customer service. We take care of your account, we give you 5-11-09 17 1 the reporting, we furnish you the fuel, we furnish everything 2 that you need. It makes it a lot easier for you. It reduces 3 man hours for your -- handling your fuel. There's no cost. 4 You have no purchasing problems with fuel. You don't have to 5 do state tax, you don't have to inventory fuel, you don't 6 have nothing to do. We do it all for you. You can be gone 7 on vacation and come in, and if you look at this report, you 8 can tell everything that's gone on in your fleet fuel. We 9 supply the fuel ourselves. We bring it in to you on-site 10 from the pipeline in Austin, Texas, San Antonio, Waco, and 11 Hearne, Texas. We back up to it with our trucks and fill it 12 up and bring it to you. It does not go into any storage 13 tanks. You have no problems with moisture. You have no -- 14 it's as clean as you can get fuel. 15 Service stations, they supply the fuel themselves. 16 We pay the service station so much money for putting the fuel 17 into our customers' vehicles. We invoice you for the fuel. 18 They don't even know how much you're paying. The price at 19 the pump does not mean nothing to you, except if you want to 20 just see how much money you're saving by doing business with 21 Texas Fleet Fuel. Fuelman, it is a good program. If I was 22 in here talking to you about it, I would tell you how it's 23 the best program out there to supply fuel to companies like 24 yours, and I believe if you'll look at the references we 25 have, we have a lot of them, you know, because we sell to 5-11-09 18 1 almost every county in central Texas. You're welcome to call 2 these companies for references. If any of them gives you a 3 bad name, let me know and I'll cut them off. (Laughter.) 4 But I'm sure you won't have that problem. They like us quite 5 well. No one ever leaves us that goes with this program. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Is the cost per 7 gallon the same delivered to our tank as it is purchased from 8 someone else's tank? 9 MR. WILLIAMS: It's the lower price to your tank. 10 Now, there's a little -- we may have a problem; I don't know. 11 The minimum cost for setting up an on-site fueling system, 12 the card reader alone is $7,500, okay? Plus our cost for 13 installation, our monitoring, maintaining this card reader, 14 and then we fill up your tank with fuel on consignment. So 15 we have to look, in order to be really competitive with you 16 in that area, at a usage of 100,000 gallons of fuel a year. 17 Now, that may not be a lot of fuel to you. You know, I don't 18 know if it is or not. If you're buying both places, I'm 19 going to tell you, you know, my experience in -- in the fuel 20 business is that, you know, you can really and truly use the 21 Fuelman program. You can buy fuel at a service station 22 cheaper than you can inventory your fuel. 23 When I first joined this company, Shell Oil hired 24 me and put me in here because Shell Oil is one of the primary 25 stockholders of the Fuelman program. I went to the National 5-11-09 19 1 Petroleum Institute down in Houston. I said, "Please tell me 2 what it costs, extra costs for on-site fueling," and they 3 gave me a report I didn't like, and they said, "Well, go to 4 New York." So, I went to New York, got an identical report. 5 Well, what it is, the national average cost for on-site 6 fueling above what you pay for fuel is 12 and a half percent. 7 I know you're going to faint when I say that. I did the same 8 thing. Twelve and a half percent of $2 a gallon is a lot of 9 extra money, okay? So I said, "Please tell me why -- where 10 this 12 and a half percent comes from." Three percent is 11 evaporation. Another 3 percent is not accounted for, but I 12 hate to stand here and tell you guys right now that 99 times 13 out of 100, it never was put in your tank to begin with. 14 The rest of it is cost for sticking fuel, ordering 15 fuel, to maintenance on the -- your card reader, everything 16 else involved in handling it, okay? And if you stop and you 17 just think about this, you know, it's realistic. It's really 18 realistic. You can go to a service station for about one or 19 two cents a gallon more and get fuel and let them worry about 20 everything. You don't have the environmental program to 21 worry about with the state. And I'm not here trying to tell 22 you what you should do, you know -- to try to, you know, tell 23 you the difference between the two. If it's possible you can 24 do this -- and in your instance, maybe it's not, because I 25 know you got your districts separated into four, and they're 5-11-09 20 1 all in a different location, and you may have to have fuel -- 2 you don't? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, sort of. 4 MR. WILLIAMS: Is it possible you could have a 5 central location for fuel? That would -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Possible. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: That would take care of all the 8 problems. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have it right now. 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Pardon, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be possible, but 12 we don't have it right now. We have to fuel all our 13 vehicles -- 14 MR. WILLIAMS: A lot of them are doing this. They 15 had like you had, you know, and then they centralized this 16 into one great tank, one system. And they use 100-gallon 17 tanks on the back of their pickups for taking fuel out to 18 their equipment. Now, if you can do this, it's a tremendous 19 savings to you, let me tell you. Tremendous savings. And 20 we're not talking about just peanuts either, guys. You know, 21 it's -- it's a lot of money. As I told you a while ago, you 22 know, about the fuel, about this 12 and a half percent, with 23 Fuelman, you can wipe all this out, you know, because we put 24 the fuel on consignment. It's our problem. We don't -- if 25 it's 25 percent evaporation, that's our problem, not yours, 5-11-09 21 1 okay? We monitor through the telephone line; it tells us 2 when to bring more fuel out there. You know, it tells us 3 each and every transaction. It gives us all the information 4 that you need to monitor your own purchasing system. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kelly, do we have fuel in any 6 other locations? We just have it up at -- 7 MS. HOFFER: No, we have it in Kerrville; we have 8 some in Center Point, small tanks, and we have some in 9 Ingram, small tanks. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I knew we had some in Ingram. 11 I just didn't know about the other places. 12 MR. WILLIAMS: Do you have an idea how much fuel 13 you're using a year? Just take diesel. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Auditor might be able 15 to tell us. 16 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't know how much fuel. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have how much in your 18 budget, Rusty? How many dollars did we figure this last 19 year? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd have to look. It was 21 close to 100,000, ninety to a hundred thousand. 22 MR. WILLIAMS: So you're right in that category. 23 I'm going to -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I average about 6,000 -- five 25 to six thousand a month, but that's all off-site. None of 5-11-09 22 1 that's on-site. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff's Department 3 normally uses more than any other department in the county. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it is time we bid it. 5 MR. WILLIAMS: I wouldn't inventory gasoline. I'm 6 going to tell you the truth, I wouldn't do it. Too many 7 service stations, it's too easy to get fuel, it's too 8 economical to get fuel. And unless you're using a tremendous 9 amount of gasoline -- and no one else are, I'm going to tell 10 you. They're getting away from it. They're buying gasoline 11 at service stations, inventorying the diesel. The diesel is 12 not that volatile. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I would look at, 14 it is time that we bid our fuel this coming year, 'cause we 15 haven't in a couple years. I need to do a bid on it. We 16 have three locations in town we get it. I saw with their 17 stuff, we can get it all over, but we do need to bid it, and 18 it's so many cents above whatever the wholesale cost is, is 19 the way it is now. And we just have to look and see where 20 the bids come in. 21 MR. WILLIAMS: I believe if you look in your book 22 there, I put a directory. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 MR. WILLIAMS: If you look under the alphabetical 25 order from the front to the back, under Kerrville, you see -- 5-11-09 23 1 I believe we got six stations here. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I saw, yeah. 3 MR. WILLIAMS: Plus we got stations all over; you 4 can get fuel wherever you -- your cars are located, and it 5 makes it a lot easier, because you don't have to worry about 6 it. You're doing business directly with us. Your price is 7 the same. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do we get the same report 9 weekly and monthly from y'all using regular service stations 10 that you talked about using on-site? 11 MR. WILLIAMS: I don't know what kind of report 12 they give you, okay? Our report is -- a copy of it's in this 13 book that I gave you, okay? And it is more detailed than any 14 of them, okay, I'm going to tell you right now. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The question I had is, am I 16 going to -- even though I'm using a service station, I'm 17 still using your card, okay? Whether it's Town and Country 18 or the other ones you have, am I going to get the same report 19 from y'all that I would get if I had on-site fuel? 20 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, you will. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Will I get it every Monday? 22 MR. WILLIAMS: Identical. You get an identical 23 report. It'll just show you the difference. You either got 24 the fuel on-site or both places; you can show it both places. 25 You can get fuel both places if you want to. It will show up 5-11-09 24 1 on this report, exactly the service station you got the fuel 2 from, the time, date you got the fuel, the person that you 3 have working for you that put the fuel in your respective 4 vehicle, even the miles per gallon. Now, you're going to 5 say, "Well, what does the miles per gallon got to do with 6 it?" Okay. Well, if you look at -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I get that now. It has a lot 8 to do with it. 9 MR. WILLIAMS: If you look at the report and that 10 miles per gallon on a vehicle, if it varies from week to 11 week, you got one of three things can be wrong. He entered 12 the wrong odometer reading, which you can catch in seven 13 days. You need maintenance on the vehicle, which you're glad 14 to know. And I know you don't have it, but, gentlemen, I'm 15 going to tell you, a lot of people have been surprised; 16 somebody will use your fuel. Simple as that, okay? And 17 seven-day check. Seven-day check. 18 MS. HARGIS: Rusty's budget is 179,000. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 20 MS. HARGIS: And -- and I think the system that -- 21 after reviewing it -- I haven't looked at those books. If 22 you'll look at them, it's very similar to that -- that 23 Texas -- the credit card that we got that you can check 24 online, and it is by vehicle. I think there's copies of 25 those reports; he showed those to me. About a month ago, I 5-11-09 25 1 -- I looked at them. But the main thing that I think the 2 savings here would be if we -- I'd look for us to investigate 3 it, would be off-site. Our biggest problems we have right 4 now is, like, the ag people, the detention service, all the 5 guys that leave the city of Kerrville. We can't get Maxey 6 Energy, so that's where our cost goes up. This would be 7 wherever we go, we would have the same cost, which would 8 bring our cost down. 'Cause we do a lot of picking up of 9 prisoners and -- both from the detention center and from the 10 Sheriff's Office, and then the ag people use it a lot. We 11 pay pretty heavy for that gas when they travel all over for 12 those shows, so it's something for us to think about. And 13 you get a credit card for any station when you're out of 14 town. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only other question on the 16 report is, will it break down and say -- because if the 17 County uses it, yes, you got the ag people using it, you got 18 Juvenile Detention, Road and Bridge, and you got the 19 Sheriff's Office. Sheriff's Office is going to get its own 20 weekly or monthly report? 21 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes, we break it down into 22 departments for you, any way you want it, okay? You don't 23 have to go through looking for a particular one. If the 24 Sheriff's Department -- Sheriff's Department will have their 25 separate report. Road and Bridge will have their separate 5-11-09 26 1 report. Water Department will have their separate report. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just recommend we bid our 3 fuel this year and see how they come out. It's got to be bid 4 'cause of the amount we use, and we haven't bid it and we 5 need to. 6 MR. WILLIAMS: We participate with the purchasing 7 concern over in Houston, Texas, you know, that's -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, so you're part of the 9 Houston-Galveston -- 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. And you don't really 11 have to go out -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You already have the state bid 13 on it. 14 MR. WILLIAMS: Right, that's correct. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's just like our patrol 16 vehicles; we don't have to bid them. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what you're saying is 19 that we could actually -- if we go with your program, we can 20 get the cards for various departments, they can fill up 21 anywhere, any service station that's approved, -- 22 MR. WILLIAMS: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- and at a reduced price 24 over what we're paying now? 25 MR. WILLIAMS: Wholesale price. We're the only 5-11-09 27 1 people standing in between you and the oil company, is 2 actually what it is. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what I'm looking at here, 4 looks like there could be 10 or 15 cents a gallon difference; 5 is that correct? Or am I seeing things? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: The mark-up -- the mark-up Friday 8 between the OPIS price and the service station price was 33 9 cents a gallon. Now, you pay us that 10 cents; you still got 10 23 cents, plus you got all the other reports and everything 11 that you have, okay? So, you know, I'm not saying that would 12 be -- the oil companies do not own any service stations any 13 more. Y'all know that. Valero owns a few down in San 14 Antonio, and maybe some here now, because the office is in 15 San Antonio. But oil got out of the retail market; they're 16 strictly in the bulk sales, and they -- they got -- you know, 17 they pay -- like, if it's an Exxon station, they pay them a 18 royalty for the use of their name. But they got out. They 19 can put any -- they put the prices in there themselves, you 20 know. And I see right here, I -- one day I was in here and I 21 saw four different prices within four blocks on the pump, 22 okay? And that's because of that. You know, doesn't mean a 23 thing to us. They don't -- they have no idea what you're 24 paying us for the fuel, okay? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds to me like it's 5-11-09 28 1 something we ought to get more information about, Sheriff's 2 Department, Road and Bridge, all the other users, and see 3 what it means to us. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 5 MR. WILLIAMS: If anything would happen on the 6 on-site fueling, we have our own service people out to 7 monitor our card readers and keep them going. If anything 8 would happen -- you know, God forbid it don't, but if it did, 9 you can go to a service station and get fuel at the same 10 price we charge you at the on-site fuel. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I suggest that you get with 14 the Sheriff and with Road and Bridge, our two biggest users. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. And -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maintenance, Environmental 17 Health, all the rest of them. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Animal Control. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Animal Control. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing, I think, Bruce, 21 you're looking at service station costs. Our cost through 22 where we get it now is -- I think the mark-up's even close to 23 half of what their mark-up is, okay? I don't think we 24 have -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on what they purchase 5-11-09 29 1 it at, though. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same -- that's the same way 3 ours is. So many cents above that purchase price is what 4 they're doing, okay? And ours is doing that now. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A local purchaser can't get 6 it as cheaply as someone who has a broader distribution area 7 can get it. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We just have to look at all 9 that and see. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look at all the -- all the 11 aspects of that and see how much cost savings there might be, 12 'cause if we can save some money, let's do it. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I agree. 14 MR. WILLIAMS: We only deal in branded fuels only 15 now, you know. Unbranded fuels, like sometimes you see from 16 Venezuela, you can see it, but we don't do that. We sell top 17 grade fuel, only kind we sell. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Williams, how many -- how many 19 different rack prices are there? 20 MR. WILLIAMS: Pardon, sir? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: How many different rack prices are 22 there? 23 MR. WILLIAMS: Well, there's only one with us, you 24 know. But you know what? Other distributors got -- I don't 25 know. You know, sometimes they put their freight costs in 5-11-09 30 1 there and in everything else. Ours is not. We go strictly 2 by what's published from the -- from the OPIS price, okay? I 3 don't know -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The point of my question is, 5 depending upon the jobber, there may be a different rack 6 price. 7 MR. WILLIAMS: Could be. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 9 MR. WILLIAMS: Could be. But it's one they make up 10 themselves. They make up themselves. One other thing I want 11 to tell you is that with us, you can only get fuel and oil, 12 and you can only get the amount of fuel that you request. If 13 you want to -- say you want two fill-ups a day. That's all 14 you can get, unless you get your permission. If you -- if 15 you want to get fuel from Monday to Friday, or you want to 16 get fuel at a certain time, we can handle that with a card, 17 you know? If you want to get fuel at -- unlimited amount, 18 you can do that if you want to. I suggest you don't look at 19 it that way, but you can. But, you know, you've got total 20 control of this. You can't get anything but fuel or oil. 21 And I'm a poor old boy. If you do, I personally pay for it, 22 okay? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: True to the Williams name. 24 (Laughter.) Thank you, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We appreciate this, 5-11-09 31 1 Mr. Williams. And I'm sure we're going to be looking into 2 it, and -- and we have a point of contact with you. We'll be 3 getting back in touch with you -- 4 MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at some point in the future. 6 MR. WILLIAMS: I thank y'all for letting me come by 7 and visit with you. Good to meet you, especially Bill. You 8 take care of the family. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will do that, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, it occurs to me that -- 11 that a number of calls to existing customers might be in 12 order to see what the success rates are with this program. 13 And there's a pretty lengthy list of users in the area. 14 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And also, when you make that 16 inquiry, you might find out exactly what procedure they have 17 in place, whether they just got it at the pump at virtually 18 any location, or a credit card, or whether or not they did a 19 -- a bid, as we do, or how they handled their fuel purchases 20 currently, before they went to that system. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we fuel all Road and 22 Bridge on-site? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. We have some 24 off-site -- we have tanks out in the yard in Precinct 4; they 25 got both diesel and gasoline, but there's not a very big -- 5-11-09 32 1 about a 500-gallon diesel and 500-gallon gasoline? 2 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Small ones in Center Point, 4 too. 5 MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir, those are small, 250, 500. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And how are those -- are those tanks 7 filled by the jobber directly? 8 (Ms. Hoffer nodded.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And you got to call them out fairly 10 frequently? 11 MS. HOFFER: Every time that we need, we bid -- go 12 out for bids for it, between Pride and whatever the -- Maxey, 13 and let them bid it each time. So, if it's every week, you 14 know, they bid it, and the lowest one gets it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think one of the questions 16 would be -- to Mr. Williams would be, would he deliver that 17 off-site fuel without having a card reader on it, because, 18 you know, that's mostly for equipment stuff. I guess you do 19 have a gas tank there for some, but it's mainly for diesel. 20 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You lose control without 22 the card reader. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know we lose control. We 24 don't have any control now, but it's very small quantities 25 they got, most of it. Some of it, they fill up in the yard 5-11-09 33 1 down here, don't they? I could see having a reader down 2 here, but I'm not sure it would be justified to spend $7,500 3 for a reader when you're not monitoring that much fuel. The 4 big users is down here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Okay, let's move on to the 6 next item on the agenda. Number 3, consider, discuss, and 7 approve resolution for the submission of the Kerr County 8 Juvenile Probation Department for American Recovery and 9 Reinvestment Act of 2009, Edward Byrne Memorial Justice 10 Assistance Formula Grant Program funding for FY '09-'10 to 11 the Office of the Governor, Criminal Justice Division. 12 Purpose of the grant is to fund vehicles and radio equipment. 13 Since placing this item on the agenda, there's been some 14 evolvement in that particular grant program, and in addition 15 to the Juvenile Probation Department, the Sheriff's 16 Department needs to be combined with that; is that correct? 17 MR. DAVIS: That's correct, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Tell us -- tell us what we 19 need to know about that, Mr. Davis. 20 MR. DAVIS: Short version of that very lengthy 21 agenda item is stimulus money coming through the governor's 22 office to AACOG. This is specifically for criminal justice 23 funds. This is for government entities only that will 24 compete for these funds; nonprofits are not eligible. So, 25 we're going to be competing with every other government 5-11-09 34 1 entity within the COG. I know K.P.D. either has or is 2 submitting an application. Initially, we were told by AACOG 3 that each agency could apply for said funds. Sheriff's 4 Department could come in, and Juvenile Probation Department. 5 Now, as of Friday afternoon, the understanding is -- and I 6 have a call in for clarification to AACOG. They sent out an 7 e-mail Friday afternoon. It appears now that only one 8 government entity, meaning the County, per se, could apply. 9 Therefore, anything that -- instead of Juvenile Probation 10 Department and Sheriff's Department having separate 11 applications, we would have to file a joint application under 12 Kerr County, hence the change in the application. There is 13 no match required for the County on these grant funds. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No follow-up expense in subsequent 15 years like there are in some grant programs? 16 MR. DAVIS: Correct. This is actually -- we had 17 looked at exactly what we would apply for when this thing 18 popped up. This is not necessarily for program support, for 19 personnel. They want -- they want equipment bought. They 20 want things that they can come in and we can spend the money 21 and be done with it. They do not want to sustain programs, 22 is my understanding. This is basically for almost like the 23 capital outlay type of expense, rather than an ongoing 24 program support and expense. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And, Sheriff, you want to 5-11-09 35 1 participate also? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. We -- in fact, we both 3 had already done applications. We just didn't realize they 4 were making a change. I think he's asking for vehicles, 5 which is one of the things they could -- and that's what 6 we're asking for. We were going to ask for, like, some of 7 the narrow-band equipment that we're going to be forced to go 8 with the radio, but it doesn't cover that type of equipment. 9 The COG's got $3 million to -- to use throughout the COG, and 10 really, doing it jointly will probably be better, you know, 11 to enable us to get -- have more of a chance of getting it 12 when you're competing against Bexar County and that. Where 13 we still -- we're doing it jointly, so I think that would be 14 a good idea. We will have to come back, because I think by 15 the first part of June, we have to have a resolution from 16 this Court that states that, you know, you agree with it; 17 that if there was a matching fund, that you agree to pay the 18 matching fund. There is not a matching fund in this grant. 19 It's just -- there are four criteria -- Clay's working on 20 it -- that you have to state in that resolution to be sent 21 in. The deadline for filing the grant is the 18th? 22 MR. DAVIS: I'm not sure. I was told -- it was 23 initially the 18th, and then I heard -- Clay said Friday it 24 got pushed back. I have not seen that. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the deadline on the 5-11-09 36 1 grant is the 18th, but we have longer than that to actually 2 get the resolution from the governing body, which would be 3 y'all. So, we'll get the initial -- that's for their 4 technical review, has to be done by the -- submitted by the 5 18th. But we're in agreement. We'll get it to y'all 6 jointly, if we can get some kind of approval to do the 7 resolution. I think, hopefully, we'll have -- y'all will 8 have one more meeting before that resolution has to be 9 signed, 'cause I really need Clay to get it done. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at the 11 resolution. We're not going to approve that today? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they've changed the game plan. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. Okay, that's 14 part of it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- but I think what they're 16 seeking is a consensus from the Court today that we would 17 like to participate in the program as it's currently 18 outlined. And what I'm hearing is, you're going to bring us 19 a full resolution to cover both departments and to include 20 the criteria that are required under the program; is that 21 correct? At our next meeting? 22 MR. DAVIS: Judge, the -- if I may, Sheriff, this 23 resolution meets those criteria, I believe. The issue being 24 the Sheriff's Department is not on this resolution. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 5-11-09 37 1 MR. DAVIS: It strictly lists the Juvenile 2 Probation Department. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you ought to amend 4 it to do that. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because we had one we were 6 going to bring y'all that's basically the same thing. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just amend it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- in regards to that. And 10 that was one of any questions, the fourth whereas. "The 11 Commissioners Court of Kerr County designates the County 12 Judge as the grantee's authorized official. The authorized 13 official is given power to apply for, accept, reject, alter, 14 or terminate the grant on behalf of the applicant agency." 15 You're going to agree to all of that too? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. The only thing -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to give Pat 18 that much authority over your money? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, because of the grant 20 guidelines, we don't have much choice. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a yes. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me tell you, the 24 good news about that language is that language, I would 25 submit, would give me the authority for the application to be 5-11-09 38 1 submitted to include both. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, really, the only 6 wording -- if you want to approve his resolution, the only 7 wording is in the second line of it, where it says in Kerr 8 County that application be made by the Kerr County Juvenile 9 Probation Department and the Kerr County Sheriff's 10 Department. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's it. The resolution 13 is done. If you want to approve -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval of the 15 resolution, amended to include the Sheriff's Department in 16 the first whereas, and proceed from there. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 20 favor, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you. 25 MR. DAVIS: Thank you all. 5-11-09 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to item 4; inform the 2 Court that District and County Courts have been approved for 3 e-filing from Supreme Court of Texas. Ms. Pieper? 4 MS. PIEPER: That's it. That said it all. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We are so informed, right? 6 Thank you. We'll move to Item 5; consider, discuss, and 7 approve rental agreement with Ikon for two Ricoh MP-5000 copy 8 machines, authorize the County Judge to sign same. 9 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I have two different copy 10 machines in my office, and the contracts are coming up for 11 renewal. So, by approving this contract, I'll have both 12 machines by the same company. Ikon is going to buy out the 13 remaining contract on Xerox. I've discussed that with the 14 Auditor and the County Attorney, and they're both fine with 15 that. This is also going to save somewhere in the 16 neighborhood of $70 to $80 a month by going with the same 17 company on both copy machines. Let's see, what else I can 18 tell you? Oh, in the contract, the County Attorney did 19 suggest that on the lease agreement, we do include the 20 statement that says, "to the extent allowed by law," and so I 21 called Ikon, and they're okay with that. So, once the Judge 22 is approved to sign and I get that original back in my 23 office, I'll put in that -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got no residual cost on the 25 existing lease because they're going to assume whatever 5-11-09 40 1 obligation is there? There's going to be a new lease; it's 2 within budget, and in fact, the monthly cost is going to be 3 lower? 4 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. That is correct. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is this on Page 11 6 that says a check to Kerr County for $3,261? 7 MS. PIEPER: Well, I have -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that proposed savings, 9 or are they going give you a check now? 10 MS. PIEPER: We will get a check for that amount. 11 That is to buy out the Xerox contract. And then what we'll 12 do is we'll just -- the Auditor will just use that money 13 and -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's for buying 15 out the other contract? 16 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval, Judge. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 22 raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-11-09 41 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 2 ma'am. 3 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6 quickly; 5 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on bid made by the 6 City of Kerrville on property currently held in trust by Kerr 7 County, legal description being J.A. Tivy Addition, Block 52, 8 Lots 5, 6, 7 and 8, or at least parts thereof -- or part of 9 8, I'm not sure -- located on Ross Street in the city of 10 Kerrville, Texas. This is a flood-prone piece of property, 11 is it not? 12 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir, it is. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And the City is willing to pick up 14 whatever the tax bill is? 15 MS. BOLIN: It includes court costs, school taxes, 16 and county taxes. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the bottom line is they will pay 18 off everyone having an obligation for taxes or costs or 19 interest, or -- 20 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- whatever's rolled up against 22 that. They will attain title to the property we currently 23 hold as trustee; we would convey the property to them? 24 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 5-11-09 42 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 4 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 9 MS. BOLIN: Thank you, gentlemen. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I think we just about 11 got to you right, Mr. Maloney. 12 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 7, a 9:52 timed item. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: How did that number get plugged in? 16 MR. MALONEY: I believe that is Commissioner 17 Baldwin's number. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, don't blame this stuff 19 on me. 20 MR. MALONEY: So -- he put it in there so I would 21 not forget the time. And it is true, you don't forget get 22 those times. So -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 7, First Responder report from 24 Eric Maloney. Commissioner Baldwin, do you want to roll this 25 into the -- 5-11-09 43 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Just -- there's our 2 friend Eric that does a fantastic job. I had the 3 opportunity -- he had one of his training meetings -- 4 sessions recently, and I went and had dinner with them. And 5 great, great bunch of folks to work with. We're excited 6 about what they're doing. Go ahead, Eric. 7 MR. MALONEY: For those of you who don't know me, 8 I'm Eric Maloney, EMS Coordinator for the Kerrville Fire 9 Department, and I also manage the First Responder program 10 that is funded by the County. The First Responder program 11 has -- has changed significantly over the last four or five 12 years, and the fact that now we are up to 41 total members in 13 the First Responder program, so that is wonderful, really 14 good news. We have more people interested out there. We 15 have about 18 paramedics. One of the challenges that we do 16 still have is the AED's. We currently only have 25 AED's in 17 the program, so -- but we are working toward that, and we 18 have got some grant approvals in the past, which is working 19 slowly to help kind of get AED's get out there. 20 This is a volunteer program, and all our volunteers 21 do volunteer their own time, their own vehicle, to take time 22 out of their day and businesses. You do understand that they 23 go out there; they -- we respond to motor vehicle crashes or 24 medical calls that do require the additional assistance. The 25 program is very important to the Kerrville Fire Department 5-11-09 44 1 EMS, and the fact that, as y'all are well aware, we do cover 2 the 1,100 square miles of Kerr County, and that can be 3 challenging at times to get that response time to the far end 4 of the county. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're paid very well to 6 do that. 7 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. Our ambulances are moving 8 very quickly to get out there. Meetings. As Commissioner 9 Baldwin said, we do have the bimonthly meetings. That has 10 worked out very well. Everyone wanted to thank you for being 11 there at the last meeting. That was great. We had a great 12 turnout, and it's a voluntary meeting that we get together 13 even months, first Monday, at 6:30, and it just allows the 14 First Responders to get together. Some of the First 15 Responders in Zone 5 in the far reaches of west -- west Kerr 16 County don't have an opportunity to meet some of the First 17 Responders out in the Center Point region. This does give 18 them an opportunity to get together to discuss a few changes, 19 any items that have taken place over the last two months with 20 the Kerrville Fire Department. It does help keep us all on 21 the same page throughout the year as changes come through. 22 Continuing education. We're still moving forward 23 with continuing education. Online C.E. is still funded by 24 the County. And with that said, we definitely want to thank 25 the County for funding us every year with the First Responder 5-11-09 45 1 program. It does allow us to equip our First Responders 2 appropriately, and they are able to get out there and truly 3 do some medical assessments, which provide a big benefit. 4 So, this time, what I wanted to do -- I've been before the 5 Court before and told you a little bit about the program. 6 I'd like to show you a little bit about what are some of the 7 things that the Court has purchased over the years, and 8 specifically this fiscal year. 9 So, one of the things that we have done recently, 10 this was added to the Kerrville Fire Department. We have 11 pre-established landing zones for our helicopter -- our 12 medical helicopter services here in Kerrville, and they have 13 -- they can land out in the county, approximately about 22 14 areas in the county that they're able to land. And what 15 we're able to do at night is we actually have what they call 16 the turbo flare, and this is a flasher, so we're able to set 17 this up. These strobes allow Air Medical to actually come in 18 and be able to see that. They run the blue strobes, and when 19 they're running in at night ops, they can actually have the 20 vision; they can actually see the blue strobe from miles 21 away, because it can be very easy from the ground, looking up 22 and seeing them, but in the dark, looking down at us can be a 23 little challenging at times. First Responders don't have the 24 lights as the ambulance does, so this does allow them to go 25 out there and mark the L.Z. safely for Air Medical as they do 5-11-09 46 1 come in. 2 Other things we've done this year is we've improved 3 their safety in the field. One of the things we had 4 challenged, and still do, is that identification on scene. 5 Very easy when I show up on scene, or the Kerrville Fire 6 Department; we're all uniformed. Very easy for our patients 7 to understand who they are. But there is a challenge out 8 there for First Responders that do respond in plain clothes 9 out there, even for the Sheriff's Office sometimes to 10 identify who's parking on the side of the road and coming up 11 to assist. So, some of the things we've done, we've added 12 extrication jackets. An extrication jacket -- this is 13 actually mine; I'm a First Responder for the county now. And 14 extrication jackets are Nomex, so they are to provide fire 15 protection during extrication. I'll pass this around if you 16 would like to see. At the same time, it helps identify when 17 they show up on scene, and does give them some protection. 18 That way I'm not wearing my good jacket in the winter; I'm 19 not wearing my clothes out there, and I don't end up ruining 20 my clothes when I go out there. Instead, they do have that 21 that they can wear out there. 22 The other nice thing that we've done is we've added 23 the safety vest, so -- we added those about two years ago. 24 And, you know, we had to upgrade to a Class 2 safety vest, so 25 we have our bright safety vest that says "Kerr County First 5-11-09 47 1 Responder EMS," so now when they're at motor vehicle crashes 2 or anything on roadways, they should don their safety vest. 3 They're Class 2, which does also allow them to identify us 4 out there. And Kerrville Fire Department is -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why do you have to upgrade to 6 a Class 2? 7 MR. MALONEY: Due to the federal changes with that. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We all had to go out and buy 9 new vests, 'cause the feds changed the requirements. 10 MR. MALONEY: That provided a challenge, because 11 two years ago we went with vests. We went with a -- a lower 12 class one to get us ID, and then they changed it; they said 13 Class 2, so we went with a very bright vest. It does give a 14 lot of reflectivity out there. The other thing we did out of 15 this year, we added T-shirts, so we had added the First 16 Responder T-shirts. It says "Kerr County First Responder" on 17 the back. So, I'll pass these around. These also provide -- 18 they allow you to -- when they're responding in the middle of 19 the night, getting up, waking up, they can actually put a 20 T-shirt on, and then showing up on scene, there actually is 21 some sort of identification out there. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that -- does that catch light 23 pretty good there? 24 MR. MALONEY: No, sir, it doesn't. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5-11-09 48 1 MR. MALONEY: No, sir, that's just a standard 2 screen. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. MALONEY: And those have been a few of the 5 identification. For next year, we're going to work on 6 getting some sort of identification badge that they can 7 actually wear also, and work toward that for this upcoming 8 budget. One of the last things that we're about to add this 9 year for medical supplies -- we've done the identification. 10 We're adding what they call a pulse ox, so -- a pulse ox 11 symmetry, a little finger probe. So, these are the finger 12 probes. We currently on the EMS carry the larger style out 13 there, but obviously, we're very limited with the amount of 14 equipment we can carry in a bag, realistically, so we 15 chose -- opted to go with a smaller one. These have a 16 lanyard on them -- this one, I didn't put it on there -- and 17 they can tie into the bag, so they can't get lost or left on 18 scene. So, these are also going to be purchased. You know, 19 this is one of the items I'm currently working on purchasing. 20 These cost somewhere close to about $120 a piece, is what 21 they cost. And those are -- that is some of the equipment -- 22 some of the basic equipment. So -- I'll take the jacket 23 back. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Watch Buster. (Laughter.) 25 MR. MALONEY: Right. Well, it has my name on it, 5-11-09 49 1 too. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's fire-retardant, as well 3 as if you're climbing through a window with broken glass? 4 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir, it does provide that 5 protection to you. So, you know, if you're in an environment 6 that does have a potential flash, or there is a potential for 7 maybe fluids in a motor vehicle crash getting on you, that 8 will provide that protection out there. So, it is not a 9 bunker jacket, but it does provide some fire protection. 10 Some of the other things we've added this year is an exposure 11 spray, so we do carry the MyClyns, which is an exposure 12 spray, so if they were to get an exposure out there on the -- 13 some sort of bloodborne product with a patient, they actually 14 have a small vial of spray that they carry on them; they're 15 able to spray it directly in contact with an open wound, in 16 their mouth or their eyes, and it provides that protection. 17 And it does give them an ability -- because of being 30, 45 18 minutes from getting to the hospital for anything, they can 19 actually hopefully reduce that potential exposure in the 20 field. That's something we added to the fire department, and 21 we did add that to them this year. They all have that 22 ability. 23 Other future plans. Currently, we're working on 24 trying to improve communications, which we're going to come 25 forward with the next budget. We do have some communications 5-11-09 50 1 challenges out in the west side of the county, and currently 2 our portable radios that we do carry cost close to about $165 3 a piece, which has been great for us. That allowed us to 4 outfit everyone in the program with a radio easily without a 5 large budget impact. However, we're finding some challenges 6 as far as being able to communicate back with the ambulance 7 or back with dispatch. So, we're looking toward -- towards 8 some ideas to try to solve that. Other things that we're 9 going to change, or potential for the Court, is that we have 10 an EMT basic course being offered coming up in June, June 11 25th to October 14th. And I'll be running the program 12 itself, and I'm hoping to have about four applicants come out 13 of this that will apply for the First Responder program. And 14 the idea is that there's no real number that we need for the 15 First Responder program, but if we have eight in a certain 16 zone, then we are definitely more likely to at least get one 17 to respond, because people do work during the day and do have 18 some challenges there, but it does provide that coverage. 19 And with that said, I will -- any questions about 20 the program? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't forget to take the 22 stuff that you brought. It stopped over there with Baldwin. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly the $100 24 thing. 25 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 5-11-09 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Your EMT course or other 2 professional courses that -- that you provide, the First 3 Responder -- I understand if John Q. Citizen walks in off the 4 street and wants to become a paramedic certified in the fire 5 department, you have a program where you'll train those 6 people up. With the First Responders, do they have the 7 benefit of that also? Where they -- they don't have to bear 8 personally the tuition cost? 9 MR. MALONEY: No, sir, we do not currently have 10 that in place for any sort of tuition reimbursement program 11 for potential responders. And the cost of the course is 12 going to cost them about $950 tuition, plus some state fees, 13 maybe $200 in state fees for that is the cost, but we 14 currently do not have a program in place. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your city program handles 16 that cost? You bring them on board in, I guess, some sort of 17 probationary status, and then bring them through the training 18 program, and then you provide that for them? 19 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir -- actually, we send them to 20 -- we actually outsource it to -- Bulverde-Spring Branch 21 provides the paramedic training program. So, we do pay the 22 tuition, then pay the coverage for them to go -- overtime for 23 them to go to class during that, so that is funded through 24 the budget, is what that is funded through. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5-11-09 52 1 MR. MALONEY: But it is something we can look at. 2 The last EMT course we had here was in 2006 was the last one, 3 and we got -- have great interest with this one. Currently, 4 18 people are enrolled, and I have another five people that 5 want to get the last two slots, and so -- and that's without 6 advertising. A lot of people are very interested in getting 7 in the program, so that's great. So, we have a lot of -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I doesn't sound like the tuition 9 aspect is a big deal there. 10 MR. MALONEY: Sir, as opposed to -- I tried this 11 about a year and a half ago, and it was. So -- and maybe it 12 just changes with the times, so -- jobs out there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question, Judge. And we 14 have -- we have talked about that in this court a number of 15 years ago, about reimbursement -- some kind of reimbursement 16 program for the First Responders, and just couldn't get the 17 interest from the members of the Court. But I still think 18 that it's a -- it's a major plus. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it occurs to me -- obviously, 20 if you're going to bring somebody in at a full-time capacity, 21 like they do at the fire department, and that's going to be 22 their primary occupation, you can certainly justify that as a 23 budgetary expenditure, same as we send our employees to 24 training in various capacities. In the First Responder 25 program, you're talking about a part-time situation. It 5-11-09 53 1 occurs to me that -- that we could set up a -- consider 2 setting up some sort of a schedule whereby we would reimburse 3 a certain percentage of that cost for each year that they 4 remain in the First Responder program in order to -- to 5 encourage participation. Just a thought. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or even -- even help some of 7 their expenses. I mean, we don't even pay for their fuel to 8 drive from their home to a traffic accident on Interstate 10. 9 I mean, it's strictly voluntary and out of their pocket. You 10 know, we do basically nothing for their services. And 11 there's got to be a way -- and, you know, I haven't thought 12 about this in a long time, but there's got to be a way that 13 we can participate in that. I -- I've tried all the avenues, 14 but never have gotten really the interest. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we can spark some 16 interest, though, if we do a reimbursement based on time 17 served. Because you couldn't really -- I don't think it 18 would be right to give the full cost in the beginning, and 19 then all of a sudden the person leaves the county. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the cost of 22 tuition, Eric? 23 MR. MALONEY: $950 for the EMT basic program, and 24 that is minimum. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: $900. You could reimburse 200 or 5-11-09 54 1 250 a year. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For four years. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, that's not a big sum 4 of money, but it -- but it's 200 or 250 a year. The other 5 thing, Commissioner, is my recollection of our budgetary -- 6 other than -- than the costs that we have in the EMS contract 7 and what you do to oversee the program, my recollection of 8 our budgetary cost is about $11,000 a year for supplies, and 9 that's it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: On the first Responder program. 13 MR. MALONEY: Yeah, 10,618 last year. Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not much for what we're 15 getting. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's not. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like our volunteer fire 18 departments. That's -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get a lot for a little. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep, sure do. Any more questions 21 for Eric? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 MR. MALONEY: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 25 MR. MALONEY: Thank y'all. 5-11-09 55 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Before you -- a couple years ago, my 2 recollection was you had about 20 to 25 in the First 3 Responder program. 4 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're up to 41 now? 6 MR. MALONEY: Up to 41. So -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty healthy increase. 8 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. So it's been great. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Great. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Eric, very much. 11 MR. MALONEY: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 8, if we might. 13 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the 14 acceptance of the final plat for Francisco's Place located in 15 Precinct 1. 16 MS. HOFFER: Leonard's -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Kelly? 18 MS. HOFFER: Leonard couldn't make it, so I'm 19 filling in. Francisco's Place is located off of Upper Turtle 20 Creek and is located in Precinct 1. It is 6.0 acres. This 21 6.0 acres was taken out of 8.9 acres from the Angel Guarino 22 estate. Remainder 2.96 acres in the back touches neighboring 23 property that is part of the Angel Guarino estate, so this 24 small acreage will not be landlocked. We are going through 25 the alternate plat process on this piece of land. Under the 5-11-09 56 1 alternate plat process, the subdivision must be under five 2 lots and not be in an existing platted subdivision. This 3 subdivision meets the criteria for the alternate plat 4 process. Francisco's Place meets all Kerr County 5 requirements, and at this time we ask the Court for approval 6 of the final plat for Lot 1 of Francisco's Place through the 7 alternate plat process. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I second. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 13 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 14 right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We will 19 move to Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 20 action to set a public hearing for the revision of plat for 21 Tracts 8, 9, and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes, and located in 22 Precinct 4. 23 MS. HOFFER: Mr. Jim Rice is the owner of the 24 tracts, and he desires to revise the three tracts into two 25 tracts as indicated on the plat. The surveyor, Charles 5-11-09 57 1 Domingues, said that this same request was made 2 September 20th, 2005, and the public hearing was held 3 November of 2005, but Mr. Rice decided not to continue with 4 the process and fill the final plat. Mr. Rice would like to 5 move forward on this revision of plat, so at this time, we 6 ask the Court to set a public hearing for June 22nd, 2009, at 7 10 a.m. for the revision of plat for Tracts 8, 9, and 10 of 8 Kerrville Ranchettes. On June 22nd, 2009, we'll come back to 9 the Court for the public hearing and go for the final 10 revision of plat. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of public hearing for revision of plat for Tracts 8, 15 9, and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes for June 22nd this year at 16 10 a.m. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 17 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 10, 22 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to name a 23 private road Fossil Ridge Road per 911 guidelines, and 24 located in Precinct 4. 25 MS. HOFFER: The requested road name in Precinct 4 5-11-09 58 1 is Fossil Ridge Road West. This road is currently unnamed. 2 The location of this road is State Highway 27 to State 3 Highway 41 West to Dale Priour Road, and then to Dale Durst 4 Road. Fossil Ridge is off of Dale Durst Road. Fossil Ridge 5 will be a privately maintained road, and it meets Kerr 911 6 guidelines. At this time, we ask for your approval to name 7 this unnamed road, private road, Fossil Ridge Road West. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Caught us napping on this 18 end. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Taking a nap over on that 20 end? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He was, but I was studying 22 my... 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm glad. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 11; consider, 25 discuss, and take appropriate action on implementation of the 5-11-09 59 1 burn ban. I put this on the agenda. It's our periodic 2 renewal of the burn ban for Kerr County. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move the order restricting 4 outdoor burning. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 9 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next item 14 is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 15 amendment to lease for the Thad M. Ziegler building which is 16 currently being used for Adult Probation Department. I put 17 this on the agenda at the request of a representative of the 18 lessor. As I'm sure the Court recalls, that lease comes up 19 for renewal or other action, or no action, as of 20 September 30th of this year. The representative of the 21 lessor has proposed an amendment of that lease for a 22 three-year extension. There would be a rental increase, 23 two -- two different amounts, first one for 18 months, and 24 then the second one to be for the subsequent 18 months. Now, 25 I don't know what the Court's plan is for providing our 5-11-09 60 1 obligation to the Adult Probation Department, whether or not 2 it appears like they're going to be over there indefinitely, 3 or whether we're going to think about putting them somewhere 4 else. If -- if we desire to keep our options open, it occurs 5 to me that rather than going on a three-year lease -- fixed 6 lease, we could possibly do a one-year with an option to 7 renew for two additional one-year terms, on some appropriate 8 notice provision. In that manner, if we should desire to -- 9 we had other quarters for those folks that we could 10 utilize -- I don't know. I don't know what the thinking is 11 long-term for those folks. We essentially have an obligation 12 to provide them a place to work and pay their utility bills, 13 and the rest of it's up to them. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have two questions. 15 One would be -- or actually a statement. I don't think I'm 16 in favor of doing a long-term three -- three-year thing. I 17 mean, that's -- I just have this feeling that something is 18 going to change within that time frame and we're going to be 19 stuck. But why are we responsible to pay their rental and 20 other things, and we don't for 198th? 21 MR. EMERSON: I don't know. I've never been asked 22 to look into that issue, whether we have a legal obligation 23 or not. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, and I'm not 25 asking you to do that now. I just thought somebody knew. I 5-11-09 61 1 thought it was some kind of magical -- 2 MR. EMERSON: No. I will tell you that the 216th 3 also supervises all the County Court at Law probationers, 4 which do come out of the county court. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm not -- I'm not 6 saying that I disagree with taking care of that. I just 7 wondered why we did one and we don't do the other. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a good question. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- but I guess back -- 10 as far as this amendment to the lease is concerned, I am not 11 in favor of a three-year term. And that's all I got to say 12 about that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd just be in favor of a 15 one-year with a 60-day notification to terminate. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, another option for two 18 -- like you're saying, two years on an annual basis. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I seem to recall a 20 conversation I think I had with Judge Prohl one time where 21 198th has never made a request for it, and -- but there has 22 to be a reason why behind that. I don't know -- I don't know 23 the reason. 24 MS. UECKER: I think one reason might be because 25 the 198th Probation Department has only been in effect for 5-11-09 62 1 about three or four years. Prior to that, the -- that 2 probation department supervised both courts -- or all the 3 courts for Kerr County. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be the reason. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I do recall here within the last few 6 meetings the Court adopting a resolution that as to the 7 198th, that we did not have adequate space to provide them -- 8 to house them, and essentially did not have the funds to go 9 outside of our facilities to acquire those for them. That 10 allowed them to -- I'm not sure whether to get state funding 11 or partial state funding, or to do something with their 12 probationary fees that they collect that they couldn't 13 otherwise do, but I know that the 198th asked us to pass that 14 resolution. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So as to put them in some sort of 17 legal compliance so that they could do whatever they needed 18 to do in that respect. 19 (Commissioner Letz joined the meeting.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's fairly recent. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that was within the last 22 meeting. Good morning, Commissioner Letz. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good morning. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda, did you say -- did 25 you just say that the problem -- or maybe one of the reasons 5-11-09 63 1 is that 198th is new out on its own? Because the 216th had 2 always covered -- represented -- I can't remember. 3 MS. UECKER: Well, at one time, it was not the 4 216th Probation Department; it was just the Kerr County 5 Probation -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 MS. UECKER: -- Department, because they serviced 8 all of the courts, both District Courts and the County Court 9 at Law. Then about three or four years ago, 198th decided 10 they wanted their own probation department, so they went out 11 on their own away from that, making this the 216th. And I'm 12 just almost, you know, positive that that's the reason, is 13 because they serviced all the courts. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Well, that's 15 interesting stuff. I didn't -- didn't recall that. That's 16 interesting. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When is this lease up? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: September 30. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of this year? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I would agree that 22 one year with an option perhaps would be a better approach 23 than three years. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me contact the lessor's agent 25 and -- and explore that possibility. 5-11-09 64 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't blame them for trying. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't blame them for trying. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. No. Well, we reworked that 5 thing a couple years ago, you'll recall. It was on a -- it 6 was on a holdover status forever, and they finally looked up 7 and said, wait a minute, we need to get this thing on a 8 current basis. But I'll contact the lessor's agent and -- 9 and explore that possibility. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the -- now, the 11 monthly rent, what I'm seeing here is they want to go to 12 $3,167, and that's from what, though? What are we presently 13 paying? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That is about a 6 percent increase. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, the increase that they're 17 going to for the ensuing 18 months under this proposal is 18 approximately 6 percent. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six. Well, that's probably 20 fair. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, we had this long period 22 of time that it just kind of rode for a while, and all of a 23 sudden, they -- they said we need to get this thing in a 24 current status. We gave them an increase at that time, but 25 we were still probably pretty much behind the curve because 5-11-09 65 1 of that considerable period of time that nothing had been 2 done. They've just been going forward on a flat rate. But 3 let me explore the possibility of a one-year with two 4 one-year options, 60-day exercise of option notice, see where 5 we go from there. Anything else on that item? Let's move to 6 Item 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 7 close Riverside Drive from the Texas Arts and Crafts west 8 property line to Kerr County Youth Exhibit Center east 9 property line on May 22nd, 2009, from 5 p.m. until 11 p.m. 10 Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This has to do with the 12 forthcoming Texas Arts and Crafts Fair and their Friday night 13 event, which is a wine tasting and so forth. I think they'd 14 rather try to attempt to park people up on Riverside Drive in 15 a little closer proximity to the pavilion. So, I would move 16 approval. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- now, this is the wine 21 tasting program that we weren't invited to? Is that the very 22 one? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you not get your 24 invitation? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I have in years past, 5-11-09 66 1 but this year it's kind of seemed to drop off. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess what? Neither did I. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you need to take care 4 of this, Bill. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I'll take care of it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably a good idea. 7 So, coming from a wine tasting thing, we don't want them 8 walking down that hill into the park. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rolling down into the 10 river, right. Good idea. Good point. I didn't want to make 11 that point. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know you didn't want to 13 bring that up. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I didn't. You got the 15 picture. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we could probably use 17 some of those landing lights the guy just left here. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That might help. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not from me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-11-09 67 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jody, can you send a letter 3 to Penni with the court order? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 15; consider, 5 discuss, and take appropriate action to vacate Lots 216 6 through 222 in Center Point Estates, Unit II, as recorded in 7 Volume 3, Page 103, Kerr County Plat Records, and/or set a 8 public hearing if required. Commissioner Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Voelkel, are you out 10 there? Yes, you are, patiently waiting. Do you want to come 11 tell us what this is all about? 12 MR. VOELKEL: The -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like we haven't heard about 14 it before. 15 MR. VOELKEL: I'm Don Voelkel. Pete Selig's the 16 owner of these lots, and he owns about 135 or so acres 17 immediately west of this. These seven lots are small. They 18 were platted back in the '70's, I think, small as 0.2 acre up 19 to 0.4, I think. He wants to -- and the road that services 20 these lots on that plat that you see has never been built. 21 There's no road there. There's a 20-foot-wide easement that 22 was dedicated; the road never was built. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Along the banks of Verde 24 Creek, is it not? 25 MR. VOELKEL: No, I don't think it's Verde Creek. 5-11-09 68 1 It's Elm Creek; goes into Verde Creek just to the north. But 2 the east boundary of these lots is the center of Elm Creek. 3 The west boundary is this 20-foot lane. The other boundary 4 of that lane, the fence, is his 135 acres. He is desirous of 5 vacating that piece of the road. The road comes from Center 6 Point Drive across Elm Creek; there's a dam there. There's a 7 road there actually built, comes across to the fence at 8 Mr. Selig's property, and then the road goes north. There's 9 several other owners up there. I think there's two or three 10 record owners for all those lots. There's probably 10 or 12 11 lots up there. The road that forked to the south and went 12 down along the fence never was constructed. What they want 13 to do is to vacate the lots and that stretch of road that -- 14 and the road goes and dead-ends at his last lot. There's no 15 other owners that would access that road. And since the 16 road's not there, what we would like to do is vacate those 17 lots back to open space. He wants to put it with his land to 18 the west and try to add it there and sell it. And there's 19 no -- if this happens, there's no need for that road to be 20 still there, so he'd like to get the road vacated. What -- 21 and I've given you a copy; I think they passed it out. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have it. 23 MR. VOELKEL: From the state law, the cancellation. 24 Talks about specifically this type of item. And it's -- it's 25 saying in there that we can describe this -- I think -- I 5-11-09 69 1 personally think the best way to do it is for me to write a 2 description of those lots and that part of the road and 3 describe it, and then it says in here it will be filed in the 4 Deed Records, so we could just describe those six lots and 5 that stretch of road in one description, and then -- and I 6 think it has to have three weeks of notice, kind of like a 7 public hearing. So, we could set a public hearing at a date, 8 you know, that we could get all the notice out, and if 9 there's any cost, I'm sure my client would pay the cost if we 10 have to put it in the paper. I don't know how y'all want to 11 do that. But then we have that description that we could use 12 to -- to attach and file in the Deed Records at that -- after 13 the approval, if it gets approved. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the issue is abandoning 15 lot lines between 216 and 222, and making it one lot? 16 MR. VOELKEL: No, not -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Vacating the lot lines, 18 abandoning the easement. 19 MR. VOELKEL: Right, abandoning, vacating it back 20 to unplatted land. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 22 MR. VOELKEL: That he can put then with his other 23 acreage. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, one lot. 25 MR. VOELKEL: Well, it won't be a lot, but it will 5-11-09 70 1 just be one -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One piece of property. 3 MR. VOELKEL: One piece of property, right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the roadway on the west side 5 there that never was constructed, -- 6 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that roadway was dedicated to 8 public use? 9 MR. VOELKEL: That's the way it appears on the 10 plat. They had the statement on the plat that the owner 11 signed that dedicated the roads to the public. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Occurs to me -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Comes in between 230 and 14 231, Judge, if you see that, and turns left and right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm talking about the 16 one after you turn off Center Point Drive and head west. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Then you hit a 90 and you can make a 19 left. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And go south on that one that comes 22 down and serves 222. 23 MR. VOELKEL: That portion was never built. The 24 rest of it was built. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But it was -- it was dedicated? 5-11-09 71 1 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, then, we've got two 3 issues. One, we're going to vacate a portion of a plat, and 4 we're also going to discontinue a public road. 5 MR. VOELKEL: Correct. That's -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So I think -- I think we've got some 7 notice requirements on -- on both the vacating of the plat 8 and a public hearing on that, and discontinuing a public road 9 and -- and the vacating of that, and also a separate notice 10 on that, both publication and posted on the property, I 11 think, if my recollection serves me correctly. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it -- I think we got to do both 15 if that road was -- was dedicated to the public. Even though 16 he still owns 216 through 222 and he wants to vacate the plat 17 as to them, I think we -- out of an abundance of caution, we 18 ought to do something to discontinue and abandon that public 19 road. 20 MR. VOELKEL: That's what he ultimately wants to 21 have, however you want to do it. That's why I got a copy of 22 the state law. I wasn't sure, never had one of these done 23 before. And that's -- you know, in the state law, it even 24 talks about vacating portions of a public road. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5-11-09 72 1 MR. VOELKEL: You know, that as long as there's no 2 other use for it or no one's going to be cut off, or no one's 3 rights are being violated by virtue of the fact we're going 4 to abandon and vacate that stretch of the road. And if you 5 look at the plat, he's the only person that has any access, 6 so however we need to do that. If we need to do it all, if 7 we can make it in one notice in the paper, or -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to leave that to the 9 County Attorney, on if we need to do that as a -- as a 10 two-prong procedure, whether we can do it as -- as one with 11 dual notices, or however he -- but I think we do need to 12 cover both bases so that we don't end up with your client 13 vacating a portion of a plat, but there's still a question as 14 to whether or not there's some claim of right in the public 15 to a roadway that never got built. 16 MR. VOELKEL: Right. That's what -- we want to do 17 it all at one time, if we can. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We want to eliminate that 19 possibility. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're going to find 21 there's two different actions, though. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two issues. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I think it is. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is two issues, because one 25 of them, the owner doesn't own that roadway. 5-11-09 73 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's dedicated to the 2 public. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So it's got to be two issues. 5 MR. VOELKEL: Two different agenda items at that 6 time, one vacating those lots; number two, vacating that 7 stretch of road. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see if we can -- Rex, 9 are you cool with that? 10 MR. VOELKEL: And I'll get with Rex on how he wants 11 me to describe -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me get it set here. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before -- well, okay, go ahead. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. I was just going 16 to offer -- I have to offer two motions. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine is more of a general 18 comment, and Don and I have had this discussion before he 19 went through this, and his plan was to file this in the Deed 20 Records, which is fine; needs to be done according to state 21 law. The concern I have is that it's not going in the Plat 22 Records, and to me, we're also changing a plat. And while 23 that -- if it's going to be in the Deed Records, I think the 24 last time we did that with Mr. Vlasek, we required the 25 instrument to also be filed in the Plat Records. 'Cause we 5-11-09 74 1 had the same situation with Mr. Vlasek, basically. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, otherwise we end 4 up with a plat that is no longer accurate, even though the 5 information is somewhere else filed in the county records. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Just going to file a revised plat, 7 in essence. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it makes sense. And it 9 can be -- and, you know, it's -- 10 MR. VOELKEL: And the reason it doesn't make sense 11 to me is because this is not going to be platted land. And 12 in the state law, it says reverted back to unplatted, 13 unvacated property. I don't -- if we have a plat with a lot 14 on there, then it's not unplatted land. I don't see how we 15 can accomplish both of these in -- and that's why on the -- 16 talking about describing it and filing it in the Deed 17 Records, I think that accomplishes it by state law. I think 18 filing a plat would be -- I mean, it -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're revising that 20 subdivision also. 21 MR. VOELKEL: Do what? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subdivision is being revised. 23 These lots are no longer in it. You're taking a road out of 24 the subdivision. 25 MR. VOELKEL: It's not being revised, it's being 5-11-09 75 1 vacated, being abandoned. I personally disagree with filing 2 anything in the Plat Records, but if that's what y'all want 3 to do with it, I'll do it. I don't think it's the proper 4 venue. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we err on the 6 side of caution here? 7 MR. VOELKEL: I have a question on what you want 8 that to look like. I mean, normally when we file a revision 9 of plat like Jonathan's talking about, you have Lots 210 10 through 216 or whatever, 216 through 222 as platted. We show 11 those lots, we show the road. Then what are you going to 12 show as replat? I mean, it's not -- we're not revising it 13 into a plat. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You can -- on the revision, you can 15 just put a notation in that area, "Vacated as per court 16 order" or something. 17 MR. VOELKEL: Okay, I'll do that. I mean, in my -- 18 I'm not saying my client does not want to go by what the 19 Court wishes. I just have a problem with professionally what 20 it's going to look like. But I'll work with Jonathan; we'll 21 come up with something, if that's what -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Work with Bill. 23 MR. VOELKEL: I'll work with Bill if that's -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're -- in essence, then, 25 what you're saying is that this piece of land will be taken 5-11-09 76 1 out of this already established subdivision, and it never -- 2 like it never was a part of it. 3 MR. VOELKEL: That's what it says in state law, 4 back to unplatted, unvacated land. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whereas a plat ought to 6 show one big lot in back behind all those other platted lots. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's -- yeah, 8 but -- 9 MR. VOELKEL: We don't want it to be a lot. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not going to be a lot. 11 But my concern is that if someone looks at the Plat Records, 12 they're going to think there is going to be something to say 13 that road isn't there and lots of other -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Or that those lots aren't there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or those lots aren't there. 16 So, I just think there needs -- you can -- in my opinion, you 17 can file the same thing, just a description, and in the Plat 18 Records. I just think something needs to be in the Plat 19 Records. 20 MR. VOELKEL: Well, I -- I'll work with Bill and 21 Rex and figure up the way to get that done, if that's what 22 y'all -- the way I envision it, the only thing you can do is 23 just as revised, just vacated and gone. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't have any -- 25 MR. VOELKEL: So as long as that's -- 5-11-09 77 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You're filing a revised plat, and 2 those would no longer be shown there. And you could put in 3 some sort of a notation, because you're -- you're looking at 4 what it was prior to revision, and just show lot so-and-so 5 vacated as per court order. 6 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. And just leave a blank on 7 there like a different type of -- instead of certification 8 that you normally sign, put one that by court order 9 so-and-so, this -- these lots and this road were -- or I 10 guess it would be two court orders, one court order for the 11 lots and then one court order for the road. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there will be two 13 public hearings if we get to that point here in just a 14 second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If we ever let you in. 16 MR. VOELKEL: Okay, I think I'm on board. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, Bill? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we set a 19 public hearing -- what's the date we're looking for here, 20 Jody? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 6/22 is when we've got -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 6/22. I move a public 23 hearing on June 22nd for the purpose of vacating lot lines on 24 Lots 216 through 222 in Center Point Estates, Unit II. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5-11-09 78 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion -- at what time? 10:05? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10:05. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: At 10:05 a.m. Okay, we have a 4 motion and a second. Question or discussion on the motion? 5 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 6 hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Another motion? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 12 conduct a public hearing on June 22nd at 10:10 a.m. for the 13 purpose of abandoning a road easement in Center Point 14 Estates, as shown in Volume 3, Page 103 of the Kerr County 15 Plat Records. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I think we 25 got you as far as long as we can go right now. 5-11-09 79 1 MR. VOELKEL: That's good enough. Thanks. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take care, Don. We'll be 3 looking forward to meeting with you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we take us about a 5 15-minute recess right now. 6 (Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:56 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, and 9 we'll go to our 10:30 timed item, Number 13. Consider, 10 discuss, and take appropriate action to modify Kerr County 11 Information Technology Policy, Court Order 28680, dated 12 June 14, 2004. Gee, that was a long time ago. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Time flies when you're having fun. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 15 MR. TROLINGER: There are three changes and one new 16 paragraph for consideration. The first three changes are 17 minor. The third is somewhat contentious. Judge, would you 18 like me to read these out? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I would. 20 MR. TROLINGER: The first change is to delete the 21 sentence under Paragraph 3.5 and move to new Paragraph 3.9. 22 I'll read what the new paragraph should be. "3.9, Reporting 23 Violations. All Kerr County employees and/or representatives 24 have the obligation to report suspected violations of this 25 policy to their elected official, department head, 5-11-09 80 1 Information Technology, or in the alternative, the 2 Commissioners Court." And that's the paragraph. The -- the 3 reasoning behind this is in the past, some computer files 4 were available to people that they shouldn't have been, and 5 I'm talking about years past. And I found that if -- if the 6 policy says Information Technology has to -- has to receive a 7 report on this, that maybe I'll find out sooner instead of 8 through roundabout circles, and that's what's happened in the 9 past, so I thought it deserved its own paragraph. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next one? 11 MR. TROLINGER: The change to Paragraph 3.8 reads 12 as follows: "Confidential data. Information Technology 13 staff shall be responsible for maintaining the integrity and 14 confidentiality of information viewed during troubleshooting 15 and monitoring of County's network. Information Technology 16 staff will adhere to the strictest standards, including all 17 statutory requirements, of confidentiality." 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And the last sentence is what you're 19 adding? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are the "strictest" 23 standards? 24 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I went and sat down with Rex 25 about this for a little bit, and he said we need a 5-11-09 81 1 comprehensive statement that says, you know, I.T. is not 2 going to disclose other people's business, basically. And 3 that's as succinct as I could put it to make it as broad as 4 possible. "Strictest standards" means I'm not going to come 5 up here and discuss what I saw on Rex's computer while I was 6 doing work on it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these standards, or are 8 these requirements of law? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it includes all statutory 10 requirements; that's in the sentence. And what, in 11 particular, I don't know. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we say that 13 strictest standards and requirements of the statutory 14 requirements? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on there. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But it can include more than 19 statutory requirements, the way that's worded. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: As I see it. 22 MR. TROLINGER: I want to make sure it goes beyond 23 and above. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5-11-09 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Next one? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Well, there's Paragraph 4.3, and 4 this is an additional sentence. I won't read the entire 5 existing paragraph; I'll just read the change, since it is 6 long. Core software systems -- I'll start over. "Core 7 software system purchases are to be approved by the 8 Commissioners Court in accordance with all pertinent laws and 9 Kerr County policies and standards." The reasoning behind 10 this is, we should have a -- some type of review process 11 before we install a software system. For instance, you know, 12 a contractor wants to come in and install a piece of software 13 for a particular office. Well, other offices can take 14 advantage of that. If we have a county-wide approach, if we 15 review this in court, I feel that we can make sure that this 16 is the best for, you know, all county offices, to be shared 17 services by other entities. You know, maybe the Sheriff 18 needs access to something that the County Attorney's got. 19 There are state and federal data standards of compliance. 20 For example, a criminal justice information system, T.C.I.C. 21 and N.C.I.C, that needs to be adhered to. And, you know, 22 overall, I'm just looking to provide integrated criminal 23 justice systems, even noncriminal justice systems, for all 24 the county offices. I want to make sure that you all review 25 that, and gives us a shot at -- at accomplishing all that. 5-11-09 83 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, what distinguishes 2 core software system purchases from other software system 3 purchases? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Well, by the need. A program 5 that's going to look at video teleconferencing, for instance, 6 for the Justice of the Peace for video magistration, I can go 7 and -- the County Attorney's office, Ilse Bailey, invited me 8 to go in and review the software with the vendor and see if 9 it's good for video magistration. Well, that -- I would 10 consider that core software, because we can install that on 11 all four precincts -- for all four precincts to use, so it's 12 used in more than one office. I'd consider that to be a core 13 software system. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's an example of a non-core 15 software? 16 MR. TROLINGER: I just need a program that'll 17 capture something on my screen and print it out on the 18 printer a certain way. For instance, the tax office has a 19 little screen print program that -- that prints out screens 20 for them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the actual policy, when you 22 say -- what is it, "in at will"? Is that what it stands for? 23 What's that? 24 MR. TROLINGER: "In accordance with." 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In accordance with. Can you 5-11-09 84 1 write that out? 'Cause, obviously, I don't know what it 2 stands for. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. Spell 4 it out. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Will do. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever it is. Appears in 7 the next paragraph too. 8 MR. TROLINGER: The one new paragraph -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, back on that one also, 10 this is in existence, is, "A copy of the license agreement 11 may be kept by an elected official or department head." It 12 seems that there ought to be one spot where all these license 13 agreements go. I don't have a problem with the original 14 being kept, whatever, but you ought to have a copy of them. 15 MR. TROLINGER: I do, and we -- well, to the best 16 of my knowledge, I do. And I keep the originals either in 17 the -- in the vault here, in the fireproof vault, tax vault, 18 or at the Sheriff's office, alternatively. That way, if we 19 do have a disaster, we can recover and reload that software. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you avoid an 22 argument or dispute over what's pertinent and not pertinent 23 by saying all statutory requirements, instead of all 24 pertinent laws. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Okay, done. So, the sentence now 5-11-09 85 1 reads, "Core software system purchases are to be approved by 2 the Commissioners Court in accordance with all statutory 3 requirements." 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Kerr County policies, 6 et cetera. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And the additional paragraph that 8 you're proposing to add is just what we've got in place for 9 major software systems today? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. For the -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: For the new paragraph, let me first 13 explain. The first paragraph of the I.T. policy says that 14 it's the policy of Kerr County to provide an atmosphere that 15 encourages the free exchange of ideas and sharing of 16 information of benefit to the conduct of the -- of official 17 county business. And I take that to heart. I want these 18 systems to be available for any offices that need to share 19 this data. For instance, the County Clerk has land records, 20 and the County Clerk's got a great system that -- that has 21 online access that makes those records available for anyone 22 in the county. Anyone in the world, really. And -- and 23 that -- and it goes to heart for the other programs that we 24 have. We should, where possible, provide that type of access 25 and that information sharing. So, what was recommended to me 5-11-09 86 1 by another County's I.T. head was that this Local Government 2 Code 191.008 has some specific -- specific language that says 3 that the Commissioners Court can purchase or authorize the 4 purchase of these systems for the use of other offices. I 5 won't -- I won't go into the exact wording of the Government 6 Code, but I think we should integrate that somewhat into the 7 Kerr County I.T. policy to at least acknowledge that that 8 code exists. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And that, of course, would be 10 subject to modification or amendment from time to time as we 11 may authorize additional systems? 12 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. So, if we buy a new 13 $100,000 software system next year, then we'd add that to 14 this list and say Commissioners Court has provided this 15 system. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Trolinger? 17 Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had -- John and I had talked 19 about one issue I have that I would appreciate if it could 20 get added into this, and John is against it. You have -- if 21 you'll look at the bottom corner of your screen on most of 22 our county-wide computers, there is a little symbol that says 23 VNC or VCN. 24 MR. TROLINGER: VNC. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which allows John to access 5-11-09 87 1 your computer from anywhere he desires to and look at 2 anything you're working on at any time he desires to. At one 3 time, I could go into my computer, click on that and disable 4 it, and then if John wanted to get into it, all I -- he would 5 have to call me, and I can click on it and enable it; he 6 could get into my computer from somewhere to do what he 7 wanted to do, all right? I just think that I.T. should have 8 to notify the computer user prior to and get permission to go 9 into his computer at that time to be able to go in and do 10 something. We're not talking the mainframe; we're talking 11 logging in. You may be sending a very security-sensitive 12 e-mail to somebody, and not necessarily John, but any I.T. 13 person that we have can go into your computer and read and -- 14 and change or do whatever you're sending right then, and I 15 think they need permission before they go into your computer 16 and do that, from either the department head, if they're 17 going to do it, you know, department wide, or from the 18 individuals. And just -- it's kind of unnerving to be 19 sitting there working on something; all of a sudden your 20 mouse starts moving around, and I.T.'s in there doing 21 something else on your computer, okay? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've had that happen. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't -- I think there 24 ought to be -- and that's the biggest complaint I hear from 25 other departments, is that John gets in and looks at 5-11-09 88 1 everything. That's fine, but I think they ought to have the 2 courtesy to let us know when they're doing it, and I would 3 like to see some type of paragraph of that added in. He 4 doesn't want it. It does take time to call that department 5 head or that individual and say, "I need to get in and update 6 something on your computer." Takes a little bit more time 7 than just going in at 2 o'clock in the morning when he's up 8 here working and doing it, but I think they need to do that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you -- are you suggesting that 10 each department head under that change would have the 11 authority to say, "No, I'm not going to let you in"? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not suggesting that we 13 would necessarily have the authority to say no. Depending on 14 what it was he wanted to do, okay? But I am suggesting that 15 we need the ability to know when he's doing it and what he's 16 doing, because now he's doing it in your specific computer 17 from a remote access, not doing it to the mainframe. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can he send -- would it be 19 acceptable to you to receive, I guess, notice after the fact? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that that VNC that we 21 have -- see, mine was set up to where I could go in and -- 22 and close it. You know, lock it to where nobody -- nobody 23 could get into my computer from a remote access, and that's 24 the way everybody's is. Now I go in to try and do that, and 25 it says your computer has been configured so that you don't 5-11-09 89 1 have access to change this, okay, to where now I can't even 2 stop him from doing it. I think that we should have that 3 ability to -- to activate that VCN or VNC icon to either let 4 them in or not let them in, and whenever they want in, we 5 just activate it; say, "Okay, come in and do whatever you 6 need to do," but don't go into our computers without us ever 7 knowing when and what you're doing in them. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, what you just told me then 10 was a different answer than you give me a moment ago, that 11 you wouldn't necessarily have the right to tell them no. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm saying when or what you're 13 doing. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in order to open that up where 15 you can go in, is what you're telling me now. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you would have control over 18 that. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, in that sense, you would 20 have control. I don't know whether I have the right to deny 21 him once he requests it. My reason for turning it off and on 22 is so that nobody can get into that computer when you're not 23 there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- I look at it 25 as -- 5-11-09 90 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's either that, or what 2 we're going to have is we're going to have everybody just 3 totally shutting down their computers when they go home in 4 the evening or different times to keep that from happening, 5 and that's going to cause him even more problems. 6 MR. TROLINGER: That's true, it does cause quite a 7 bit of trouble with the network if, after hours, the 8 computers are turned off. They can't get their automatic 9 updates, they can't get backed up. But let me say that the 10 VNC program is my way of letting you know that I'm accessing 11 your computer. It includes a log file that's recorded at 12 your computer and at mine that says the time, and beginning 13 and end that the access took place, and it lets you see that 14 I'm working on your computer. There are other methods that a 15 large I.T. shop -- enterprise I.T. shop would use that would 16 simply lock you off the computer, and you wouldn't be able to 17 see what was going on, and you'd have no knowledge of it at 18 all. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Linda, do you know how 20 to tell on your VNC whether or not John's in your computer or 21 not? 22 MS. UECKER: No. 23 MS. BOLIN: I don't. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The whole reasoning how you 25 know is, one, it changes color if you're there when it does 5-11-09 91 1 it. If it's after hours, you don't know it. How you run a 2 report, all mine says is I can't touch it; it's been 3 pre-configured. That's why I -- I just think it's a 4 courtesy-type deal. If somebody's going to get onto my 5 computer at my office, all right, while I'm doing something 6 or there, I think as a courtesy, that department head or that 7 individual, however the Court wants to do it, should have the 8 right to know when before somebody gets in there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about notification from 10 him that says, -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: E-mail. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- "At 4:05 p.m. this 13 afternoon, I will be on your computer." The purpose of -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all I'm asking, some 15 type of notifying us before he -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that sounds 17 reasonable to -- I mean, he's not going to know the time. I 18 mean, I can see both sides of this, and I can see very little 19 that we deal with is private, confidential. I mean, there's 20 some personnel stuff. Rex's office probably has the most 21 confidential. I would say you probably have some. But -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your D.A.'s have a whole lot. 23 That's why the judges and the D.A.'s and everybody else is -- 24 is having real problems right now, to be honest, with I.T., 25 because they don't want them being able to get into their 5-11-09 92 1 computers at any time, day or night, without them knowing it. 2 And I think if they were made to notify us -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're saying without them 4 knowing it. John's saying they do know it. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They don't know it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they could know it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All I'm asking is, let us know 8 it. 9 MR. TROLINGER: They could know it. They could 10 know it; there is a log file. In the I.T. policy, the very 11 last paragraph says that each department head or elected 12 official develop and implement written guidelines or policies 13 for County-owned computer usage. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Then, if I develop a 15 policy that says I.T. cannot touch any one of our computers 16 and log into them without my knowledge prior to, then that's 17 okay? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Let me give you a for-instance. 19 County Attorney has stated, "Do not make any changes to my 20 computers without my authorization," and then there's a 21 caveat. The Windows updates are okay, the security updates. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He can add that. 23 MR. TROLINGER: That's a good example, because the 24 Windows security updates are mandatory. If your computer 25 gets infected with something bad and shuts down the county 5-11-09 93 1 network and we can't do business, you know, that is my 2 responsibility to insure those updates are done. So if I 3 start reviewing a lot of computers all at once, and I find 4 your computer doesn't have that update, I will then go into 5 your computer and force it to reboot or look at it, see why 6 it hasn't hit that update. And that's an example of why I 7 access computers after hours remotely. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you said you just want to 9 know? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's kind of -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: But you don't want to be able to 12 control, "Yes, you can" or "No, you can not"? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: If -- if I.T. sends you an e-mail 15 immediately prior to going into your computer, it's dated and 16 timed, and he sends you an e-mail, and said he's going into 17 your computer to do maintenance or whatever, Microsoft 18 updates, security updates, whatever, would that not solve the 19 problem? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the most part, Judge, it 21 probably would, because what's hard to deal with is coming to 22 work one morning and all your computers are shut down and 23 everything, and you're wondering what happened. And then you 24 find out, well, I.T. went into it last night and did 25 different things and whatever. I mean, it's not that I don't 5-11-09 94 1 want them doing it, but stuff like -- I have every e-mail you 2 ever sent me in that computer in a file, okay? I have every 3 e-mail I've ever received from any office in that computer in 4 files, and I don't have a problem with that because I'm not a 5 -- you know, I don't try and keep private anything that's on 6 it. But if I had an e-mail five years ago from you, I don't 7 want -- and not John, okay? I just have an issue with 8 security of the system. Any I.T. guy that this county 9 hires -- and we don't do background checks on them; I wasn't 10 asked to on the last one. Okay, we did finally when TLETS 11 had to, but I don't know who these people are, and at 12 2 o'clock in the morning, when somebody's into my computer 13 system at the Sheriff's Office, it bothers me, okay, if they 14 don't have it. And I think all I'm asking is -- is don't 15 enable a VCN that says he can get into my system any single 16 time, anywhere, anyplace that he wants to without my 17 knowledge. I think he has to -- I think he needs to go back 18 and put the VCN where we can turn them off and on, and then 19 he calls me and I activate it; it takes two seconds. It's a 20 right click, okay? Okay, go in. You know, I know -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're saying two different 22 things, then. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm not really trying to 24 say -- I'm not trying to say I don't want him ever in the 25 system, or being able to say no. I would like to be able to 5-11-09 95 1 say no at 2 o'clock in the morning when I can't tell what 2 he's doing. If I'm there, I can see -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'd rather be shut down 4 whenever you're trying to get something done and he's got to 5 do these updates and backups during the day when you're 6 trying to use it? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When I can -- when I'm there, 8 I can see what he's doing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, see -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When you're there, you can see 11 what he's doing. When you're not there, I can't see, and 12 they're going -- you don't know if that I.T. person is 13 reading every e-mail you have in your computer at 2 o'clock 14 in the morning. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless he has insomnia or is 16 really bored, I can't -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This man works more at night 18 than he does during the daytime, I'll tell you that. He does 19 put in -- he does put in a lot of hours to this county, okay? 20 I -- I can promise you that. But I think we ought to know -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause if you're not on the 22 computer, then they can do things -- do the update stuff in 23 the system. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Well, an example of it, last week 25 we had 40-some-odd hours of issues that had to be taken care 5-11-09 96 1 of, just regular calls that came in or help desk issues. 2 Well, once those are done, then I've got to take care of the 3 maintenance, the servers, the computers, the updates. So, 4 most of that does take place after hours, and it is a 5 convenience to you not to disrupt you during the day. But as 6 I said before, the VNC the program itself is to reduce the 7 amount of travel I've got to do. When you have a problem, 8 yes, I can log in right away and fix your problem, but it 9 also helps me that I don't have to go to your office and -- 10 and do the other -- the maintenance issues. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not asking that they have 12 to go to the office. I am asking that we have the ability to 13 turn off and on so we know when -- 14 MR. TROLINGER: The alternate is that I can log 15 into the computer without you ever knowing or without you 16 ever seeing that -- you know, that log file or those changes. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's already happening. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Microsoft tools. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's already happening. We 20 don't see it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, you say that there's a 22 log and everyone here -- well, not everyone. The three that 23 responded said that they don't know how to access that log. 24 MR. TROLINGER: It's not accessible by the users. 25 It's for my purpose -- well, it is accessible by the users; 5-11-09 97 1 let me correct that. They just don't know how to see it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- why can't you -- why 3 can't they be able to see what you are doing? Why couldn't 4 that log be easily accessible to them so they know when you 5 go on the computer? 6 MR. TROLINGER: If I can publish an e-mail and say, 7 "Here's how you look at the log file," would that be 8 sufficient? Instructions on how to pull it up on each -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To me, it would be. 10 MR. TROLINGER: It's available right now. It's 11 just a matter of knowing what to look for. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just give us access so we 13 know. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would help a lot. I think 15 I understand their concern about wanting to know about what 16 you're looking at and doing, or at least the time when that 17 -- but I also think that you need to have access to the 18 computers, because there's lots of updates and stuff, things 19 that need to be done, and very little that we deal with is 20 confidential. I mean, you know, Linda probably has some, 21 'cause -- anyone dealing in the courts. Outside the courts, 22 I can't think of anything confidential we really do. Maybe 23 the personnel. 24 MR. TROLINGER: This is an important discussion, 25 and I agree that the information -- and that's why I go -- I 5-11-09 98 1 went to the effort to meet with the County Attorney and get 2 this confidential data paragraph straightened out. I want it 3 to be comprehensive. I want y'all to understand that we're 4 -- we're in there to do our work and then get off of there. 5 We're not in there to snoop. And with a couple 150 6 computers, 300 and some-odd network devices, there's not much 7 time for that anyhow. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other side -- I 9 guess the other side of it is -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, when you go in the 11 computers, there's part of the log that says what you were 12 on? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Not this particular -- not what 14 we're talking about. It just says the start time and the end 15 time. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would it take to have -- 17 so they could see what you did in the computer? 18 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know if that's easily 19 attainable. That's something I haven't -- haven't thought 20 out. That would be an extensive change. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to weigh in on this 22 thing. What I'm hearing the Sheriff say -- I'm hearing it a 23 little bit different, and what I'm hearing him say that I 24 agree with 100 percent is the courtesy call. If you send him 25 an e-mail prior to going on his system -- going into his 5-11-09 99 1 system that says, "Hey, Rusty, I'm going in there at 2:37 and 2 I'm going to count your chickens," or whatever you're going 3 to do there, let him know in that e-mail, and that's simply a 4 courtesy call. And I -- I'm really bumfuzzled here why we're 5 opposed to that. 6 MR. TROLINGER: I'm not opposing it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but there's folks in the 8 room that are. And I think that if you just paid the guy a 9 courtesy call that says I'm going in there at a certain time 10 to do a certain thing, if I have no problem with what you're 11 doing -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't even require a 13 certain time. Date, let me know. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you -- if you -- I differ 15 with Jon just a little bit. If there's -- if there is any 16 confidential information, nobody needs to be in it, zero. 17 That's my -- just my opinion, what the law says. But if 18 there's -- if there's -- you know, we're talking about where 19 there's a little bit. Linda has a little bit of confidential 20 information. If she has any, then nobody needs to be in 21 there, unauthorized. 22 MR. TROLINGER: I don't consider it my business to 23 look at anything that's on the computers. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 percent 25 on that. And that's -- that's what everybody's concern is. 5-11-09 100 1 And I don't think you will. And if you did -- if you did, 2 you can get arrested, I guess. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except right now, we have no 4 way of knowing. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about a 7 telephone call. Why don't we just -- why not an e-mail 8 message -- a red-flag e-mail message that says we will be 9 doing maintenance on your computer? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Courtesy call. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Courtesy. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you want a call at 13 2:00 in the morning if John's going to be in there 14 configuring something at 2:00 in the morning. You don't want 15 him ringing you up. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think he does. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I get woke up now at 2:00 in 18 the morning; I'm not asking to get woke up more. What I am 19 asking is that, even before -- or the day before, whatever, 20 say, "Today, you know, I'm going to be getting into your 21 computer" to kind of maintain it, update it, or this type 22 of -- you know, correcting files or whatever. But let us 23 know. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he's agreed to do 25 that. 5-11-09 101 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's very simple. Just 2 send him an e-mail, like you say. Say, "I'm going to be 3 doing this," to let you know I'm going to be in there. And, 4 you know -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put a red flag on it so he 6 sees it. 7 MR. TROLINGER: And to make it clear, the I.T. 8 policy does state, the last paragraph, that, you know, you 9 can adopt your own policies for computer access, so please 10 do. Any other departments that say, hey, you know, before 11 you do a change on my computers, do -- you know, do this. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can adopt a policy that says 13 I.T. can't get into our computers without notifying us first? 14 MR. TROLINGER: Potentially. (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure your policy can 17 override the policy of the Court. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now you know why I'm asking 19 you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see two different kind of 21 things. I mean, some of these things, I think John needs to 22 have access to the computers when he needs access, especially 23 on the security side. And I think, like, the Windows 24 updates, they need to be excluded from all the stuff. He 25 just needs to do them, period. 5-11-09 102 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The security side comes 2 through the -- through the mainframe and his firewall, okay? 3 That doesn't have anything to do with that computer you have 4 sitting on your desk. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it does. The Microsoft 6 Windows operating system updates are pertinent -- or 7 applicable to each computer. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're automatic as long as 9 your computer's on, so why do you need to get into my 10 computer? 11 MR. TROLINGER: If the update has not installed or 12 is hung up and I have to manually adjust it. And there's a 13 second reason. The antivirus will report to me if there -- 14 if there's anything suspicious or if there's been a potential 15 infection of the computer, and when that happens, I need 16 immediate access to it. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's going to tell you, 18 hey, a virus has tried to load. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Generally, yes. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Call me. Say, "I need to get 21 in there; you got something trying to load a virus in your 22 system." You did that with the fingerprint machine. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, if he needs to call, we 24 have 300 employees. He doesn't have the time to call 300 25 people and say, "I'm going onto your computer." 5-11-09 103 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I said it can be with the 2 department head or the elected official, but I think somebody 3 outside -- or somebody in that department should at least get 4 the courtesy to know. Otherwise, I'll be honest, I'll just 5 shut off our computers at night, because I just don't know. 6 And I used to be able to do it when I had access to turn on 7 and off the VNC, and when John needed to get in there, he'd 8 call me and say, "Hey, I need to get in your system to 9 upgrade this." "Okay, fine." Activate it, go on. But now I 10 can't even control that, so now we have no control over when 11 somebody's getting in our system. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think we need to determine 13 what the issue is, Rusty. Are you wanting to control if he 14 can get in, or merely knowing that he is going to go in or 15 has been in? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It totally depends on what his 17 purpose is, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The answer to my question, 19 then, is you want to control if he goes in, potentially. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, the thing is, it just 21 depends on what his purpose is. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what would his 25 purpose be other than maintenance or security? 5-11-09 104 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, one, he can -- one time 2 he came in, I -- my e-mail is all set up; have I Microsoft 3 Outlook, whatever, okay? And all of a sudden I came back one 4 morning and it was a different Microsoft Outlook. Now all my 5 e-mails are different; everything I do in that computer is 6 different, because it's a new e-mail operating system in it 7 that I didn't even know was going to be there. So how you 8 send e-mails, how you receive e-mails, how they were saved, 9 everything changed overnight. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I did -- that happened to 11 me. I left town. Computer guy came to my house, fixed my 12 computer, and it's all different, 'cause every time you 13 upgrade your operating system, Windows does that. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you knew -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a Windows problem. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You knew the computer guy was 17 coming to your house to work on your computer, didn't you? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't know he was going to 19 change my -- I couldn't even print something this morning. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right, that's what I'm 21 asking. All I'm asking is -- is a courtesy. I just don't 22 think it's, you know, right that somebody can do that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he sends you an e-mail 24 that says, "I'm going to enter your computer at 2:37 a.m. 25 this morning and put a new e-mail system in," now you know. 5-11-09 105 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it doesn't even have to 2 have the time, but that's fine. Let me know you're going to 3 do that. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds pretty simple to me. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. Notification is fine 6 for -- except for system upgrades from Windows, some of that 7 stuff. To me, we just need to do it. If we're going to 8 operate with these operating system, we need to get upgraded 9 versions of them, just like -- you know, I don't know. On 10 Acrobat, do you upgrade those automatically, or does -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, this stuff's got to be 13 upgraded continually, every -- all the stuff that we have. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's why I said -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, every week there's some kind 16 of bulletin that says this has to be security updated. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not -- if you're on your 18 personal computer at home, you turn it on and it just 19 happens. I mean, I presume John has to manually, at least, 20 tell it to go do it all. 21 MR. TROLINGER: As best I can, it's automated so 22 that we don't have to touch the computers, but there are 23 instances where the update does not install automatically or 24 it has to be manually installed. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, here's -- send an 5-11-09 106 1 e-mail out, if you would, John, telling everyone how to 2 access the log. And, to me, try to notify people ahead of 3 time. And the request I have is, look into a system that 4 automatically lets them know what you've done. 5 MR. TROLINGER: Will do. I'll publish that on a 6 county-wide e-mail. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You periodically send out e-mails 8 that say, you know, tonight beginning at approximately, 9 10 p.m., we're going to be doing update 26.1 or whatever. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I see those coming through. I have 12 no idea what they mean, but I've seen them. And that's a 13 general update that you do. 14 MR. TROLINGER: That's -- that would be an example 15 of an all-county e-mail, everyone in the county. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's not your individual 17 computer; that's the mainframe stuff, that the system's going 18 to be down for this long. That's the Odyssey; that's the 19 mainframe. That's not what you have on your computer. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one quick related 22 question. Maybe others have experienced this every now and 23 then. One of these updates will show up on-screen in my 24 individual computer, and I ignore them thinking that you've 25 taken care of them. Is that correct? 5-11-09 107 1 MR. TROLINGER: No, that's not correct. You have 2 the option -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I should -- I should do 4 what it says? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. You have the option at this 6 point. That way, you're not interrupted from the current 7 work that you're on. You have a choice of initiating that 8 before you go to lunch, for instance. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 10 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 11 MR. EMERSON: I have an issue on Paragraph 3.9, 12 Reporting Violations, and I think that opens a giant can of 13 worms. I mean, how specific are you going to get? Is one 14 clerk supposed to report that the next one's accessing the 15 internet -- you know, MSN for some reason? And if you are 16 going to have a mandatory obligation to report, what's the 17 personnel action that goes with it if you don't? 18 MR. TROLINGER: That's a good point. Because I'm 19 looking at it towards the security standpoint. If you know 20 that someone's got access to someone else's files that 21 shouldn't, that's an example of something that should be 22 reported. As far as the policy of the computer use on the 23 internet, I would see that as a function of the department 24 head. That needs to be reported to the department head. 25 That would never be reported to I.T. Unless, you know, 5-11-09 108 1 there's some action that we need to take. How can we adjust 2 that? 3 MR. EMERSON: I don't know how you're going to 4 define it. I mean, if you put "suspected violations of the 5 I.T. policy," the I.T. policy is 20 pages long. That 6 includes everything in there. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think there's -- the 8 way it's written, it's kind of an obligation to report 9 suspected violations. If asked, I didn't, you know, think it 10 was a suspected violation. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's -- it's 13 one of those things, to me, that you need to have in a 14 policy, but it really doesn't do much. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's actually -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless it's flagrant. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's implied, as an 18 employee, when you agree to be bound by the policy by virtue 19 of your employment, that you have an obligation to -- to 20 report violations. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like if you see somebody 22 viewing inappropriate stuff -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Pornography. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- on the internet, I think 25 then there is an obligation to do it, you know, from both 5-11-09 109 1 sides. If you're, you know, looking at Cabela's for a minute 2 on your break, I mean, you know -- 3 MS. UECKER: I have an additional I.T. policy, you 4 know, just for my office, and I think almost everybody does, 5 that addresses that issue. You know, it conforms to what the 6 County's is, 'cause I prepared it after we adopted this one. 7 I think Rusty did. I don't know if Jannett did or not, but, 8 you know, my individual I.T. policy just for my staff 9 addresses that issue. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, yours is more -- not 11 necessarily restrictive, but more -- more detailed. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. We have things like 13 you cannot access the internet for personal use, only 14 business-related, things like that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In our own department I.T. 17 policies that we have. And normally we can -- you know, if I 18 think I have a problem -- or most of the time John will call 19 me and say, "Hey, somebody in your dispatch last night was 20 doing all this kind of stuff," and internet -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: You know, that's your standing 22 order, is you want to be notified of those things. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, I do. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Other departments -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a standing order for 5-11-09 110 1 him to notify me. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Other departments, for instance, I 3 have no business in what they do on the internet, and it's 4 not my job to be the internet cop. But you've specified that 5 you wanted that, and that's your policy, so we've adopted 6 that as your policy. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Where are we, gentlemen? We 9 ready to take action? Are we going to -- we going to do a 10 little tweaking and refining and whatnot? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has the County Attorney's 12 question been resolved? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I gather we're not ready to take 15 action, then. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and then back on the 17 snitch issue. If I see -- you know, common sense would say 18 to me -- don't forget, I grew up out in Hunt, but common 19 sense says to me if I see somebody looking at pornography, 20 I'm going to report them to somebody. But if somebody's 21 looking at Cabela's catalog, damn, who cares? I mean, I 22 don't get that part. I'm not -- certainly not going to go 23 tell on somebody for -- please don't tell me that's what 24 we're talking about. 25 MR. TROLINGER: No. The policy states that 5-11-09 111 1 occasional use of the county resources is acceptable. I'm 2 paraphrasing, but it says occasional use is acceptable. 3 There's no -- no prohibition against, you know, logging in 4 and paying -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we snitching about, 6 then? Give me -- 7 MR. TROLINGER: Security issues. If someone can 8 see files that they shouldn't be able to see, or have access 9 to court cases that they should not have access, that needs 10 to be brought up to the -- to the department head. That 11 department head needs to know that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that makes sense. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or if someone downloads a -- or 14 tries to download a program without getting permission. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or what I've had at times is 17 somebody logging into their My Space program, okay? While 18 they're on duty. And they may be even doing things such as 19 uploading accident scene photographs into that program. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably not good. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 22 MR. EMERSON: Hypothetically. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hypothetically speaking, of 24 course. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those two. 5-11-09 112 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But those are the types of 2 issues that we're talking about. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I'll make a motion 5 that we adopt the policy as amended today. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 8 adoption of the policy with the amendments proposed by the 9 I.T. Manager. Question or discussion on the motion? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As amended? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As amended. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these issues that I'm 14 looking at here are the amendments? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the three items. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the courtesy 18 call? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's not part of the 20 agenda, as I look at it. I just asked him to do those couple 21 things, and he said he would. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he said he would on tape, 24 so it's, you know -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, all we're doing here is 5-11-09 113 1 moving a line to another paragraph, or -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- deleting it out of one 4 paragraph and moving it to another? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All this discussion we've 6 been having for the last 30 minutes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Adding -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to third that 9 motion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All in favor of the motion, 11 signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Thank you, Mr. 16 Trolinger. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Well, thank you for your support. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Been an enjoyable morning. Let's 19 move to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 20 action to adopt a resolution commending retiring Airport 21 Board President Roger Bobertz for his years of service on the 22 Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board of Directors. 23 Commissioner Williams? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 25 Mr. Bobertz has submitted his resignation, and there'll be a 5-11-09 114 1 reception honoring his service on the 22nd, I believe, of 2 May. And we have been requested to honor that service with a 3 resolution -- joint resolution with the City of Kerrville, so 4 that's what I put together, and I'll read it into the record. 5 "Resolution of Kerr County Commissioners Court and the City 6 of Kerrville City Council commending Roger Bobertz for his 7 years of service on the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport 8 Board. Whereas, Roger Bobertz was first appointed to the 9 Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board in April 1999, and 10 reappointed for five additional terms; and whereas, the 11 Airport Board elected Roger Bobertz president in 12 September 2007, and he served with distinction in this 13 capacity until his retirement in May 2009; and whereas, prior 14 to serving in the public sector, Roger Bobertz had a 15 distinguished career with Union Carbide Corporation and Scott 16 Paper Company, bringing his years of business experience to 17 benefit the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport; and whereas, 18 during his tenure on the Kerr County Joint Airport Board, 19 many significant accomplishments took place at the airport, 20 most notably the construction of a general aviation terminal 21 building; and whereas, Rober Bobertz demonstrated his 22 enthusiasm for general aviation by earning his pilot's 23 license and flying often in his Mooney airplane. Now, 24 therefore, be it resolved, Kerr County Commissioners Court 25 and the City Council of the City of Kerrville, by adoption of 5-11-09 115 1 this resolution, hereby extend our thanks and appreciation to 2 Roger Bobertz for his years of service to the Kerrville/Kerr 3 County Joint Airport Board, and may he always experience good 4 flying weather and safe passage; and be it further resolved 5 that a signed copy of this resolution be presented to Roger 6 Bobertz on the occasion of his retirement event held in his 7 honor," et cetera, et cetera. Move adoption of the 8 resolution. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 adoption of the resolution as indicated. Question or 12 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 18 to Item 17; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 19 regarding whether or not to allow noncertified burn managers 20 to perform prescribed burns during a burn ban. Commissioner 21 Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. 23 Based on the memo that came from the County Attorney that was 24 circulated to us, I put this on the agenda. And as I 25 understand it, we're -- our current burn ban order allows for 5-11-09 116 1 this, and I just want to make sure we're all on the same 2 page. And we have delegated it to NRCS office to keep track 3 of it, and if they approve a person to do a prescribed burn 4 during a burn ban, that's okay. Those people -- we kind of 5 handed it off to them, and they're doing it, so we have a 6 process in place. I think it's by order that's in place. I 7 just put it on here to make sure we don't have to do anything 8 else. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the current order, any 10 prescribed burns that are exempted from the burn ban must be 11 approved by the NRCS, correct? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, or be by a certified 13 burn manager. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Or by a certified burn manager. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have no -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Same difference, essentially, 17 probably. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes and no. But certified burn 19 managers can burn under -- we have no control over them. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whereas NRCS, we do have 22 control over that process. And we pretty much let -- I mean, 23 and they're very restrictive. They don't have more than a 24 dozen, I think, you know, people on their list. There aren't 25 a lot of certified burn managers, for one thing. And then if 5-11-09 117 1 you have a private property owner who wants to burn, and 2 doesn't really have -- can't get a certified burn manager, 3 but has experience or knows the process, and can get the 4 equipment and can prove to NRCS that they're capable of 5 carrying it out, I think that's the -- that is -- and I have 6 one of those instances just recently at the Stowers Ranch. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But they obtained the approval 8 through the NRCS? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. And NRCS, in 10 turn, whenever they did get one of these requests, call the 11 Commissioner of the precinct to get their input. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Jody gets a list from NRCS 13 with all of them listed on it, and I think Rusty probably -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. That's what I was going 15 to ask, is how do we know whether that was an approved one or 16 done by -- is there documentation they have that they can 17 show our officer? Or -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a list. Jody can just 19 forward it to you. Simple thing for Jody to forward to you, 20 or to the Sheriff's Department. 21 MS. GRINSTEAD: We don't get them that often, but 22 Joe Franklin will send me -- if there's a prescribed burn 23 coming up, he'll send an e-mail that I send out to all the 24 volunteer fire departments. You're in there too, I believe. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, because the Stowers 5-11-09 118 1 Ranch was one. But, you know, we were just told, you know, 2 they canceled it at that time originally, 'cause it was -- 3 but then there was one I called Jonathan about that was done 4 in Kendall County, but at the Kendall/Kerr County line, that 5 they said this is a prescribed burn, and they lit that son of 6 a gun; it burned all over everywhere. Not out of control, it 7 was prescribed, but we were getting 50 calls on it, and all 8 we could tell people is, "Well, we're told it's a prescribed 9 burn." But we have no idea who, you know, what, what 10 approval. I mean -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If that was Kendall County, 12 that wouldn't solve it. And I know occasionally, we get a 13 list from Joe Franklin. We might -- you might send one, you 14 know, put it on file every so often that we get an updated 15 list of who -- people that have, you know, burn plans for 16 that year, kind of ongoing, but it's -- we're pretty much 17 done with the burning season for this -- you know, for 18 this -- right now. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just don't know how we know. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could we get Rusty a 21 courtesy e-mail? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A red flag on it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With a red flag. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've be been trying to 25 encourage people in my area, they need to call the Sheriff's 5-11-09 119 1 Office, let them know, as well as volunteer fire departments. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In fact -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is part of the 4 requirements, is to notify proper authorities. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they have to -- if they're 6 not following the burn plan that they file with NRCS, if 7 they're not calling the Sheriff's Department prior to the 8 burn -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And they do, okay? And we get 10 that notice. It's just saying, you know, we're going to do a 11 prescribed burn. Well, who are you and, you know, how do we 12 know you even can? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we routinely get -- Jody 14 or somebody -- get this burn/do not burn checklist? Do we 15 see that? Do you see that, Jody? It's in this order, back 16 on the last page of this order. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Sheriff, is the Code Red system 18 appropriate to use to notify these -- notify the, you know, 19 affected areas of the prescribed burns? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. I mean, we can use it 21 for that. I'd like to know that I am sending out a 22 legitimate prescribed burn. You know, I don't want to notify 23 people that, "Oh, don't call in any more on this fire; it's a 24 prescribed burn," and then it burns down half the country and 25 it was an illegal one. 5-11-09 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause if we do, that can 2 be forwarded to the Sheriff, and he'd know it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think NRCS keeps that 4 whole document on file. I don't think we get copies of them. 5 I've not seen them. 6 MS. GRINSTEAD: No, we don't. I've never seen 7 them. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are the ones -- this form 9 is one, I guess, done by NRCS. All of them are pretty 10 similar. There's -- you know, different groups have 11 different takes on them, but -- but something is filed. 12 Well, I'll get hold of Joe, and also -- he's getting ready to 13 probably move to San Angelo, so I'll visit with him or 14 whoever's going to be taking this up for him, and make sure 15 that we get, you know, whatever -- whenever the list is 16 modified, to send us a copy of it. Then we can forward it; 17 we can get it distributed to everybody. 18 MR. EMERSON: Just as a point of discussion, what 19 about requiring a noncertified burn manager to file a copy of 20 their prescribed burn plan with Jody prior to the burn? That 21 way you have all the specifications on it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- I mean, my 23 thought would be -- 'cause we do them. We will frequently -- 24 you don't necessarily -- you base your burn plan on the 25 weather conditions, not on a date, you know, usually. And 5-11-09 121 1 you usually plan for it based on the weather; then you make a 2 last-minute call so you can do it. 3 MR. EMERSON: Correct, but once you go through -- 4 if you're not a certified burn manager, once you go through 5 and you receive approval from the Department of Agriculture 6 or whoever, then theoretically, you have a written plan 7 that's very specific that's going to be completed on whatever 8 you burn. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. Yeah, we can do 10 that. We can get a copy of the burn plans, keep them for a 11 year. 12 MS. GRINSTEAD: Get that from Joe Franklin? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll mention it to him. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That wouldn't be a bad idea. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way we have something in 16 our files that shows these people can burn, and then -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you -- it just shows 18 the intent that they have a plan to burn whenever the 19 conditions are right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, is that burn ban 22 checklist a part of that? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: What action, if any, does the Court 5-11-09 122 1 need to take at this point in time? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think anything, 'cause 3 you are -- I think it's all in our current court order. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's shaking his head no. 6 MR. EMERSON: No, cause the Department of 7 Agriculture states specifically that, quote, the County 8 should require a written burn plan -- burn plan prepared by 9 an appropriately trained and experienced individual, blah, 10 blah, blah, and it goes on. So, I think if you want that 11 document filed prior to the burn with the court, you need to 12 state that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll make a motion that 14 we require a burn plan be filed with the Commissioners Court 15 for any burns to be conducted during a burn ban period. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 18 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 19 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's move to 24 Item 18; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 25 adopt a resolution opposing the Blair Holts Firearm Licensing 5-11-09 123 1 and Record Act of 2009. Commissioner Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm real excited about 3 this. We all were notified by a gentleman asking us to 4 address this thing, and I got stuck with it. But this 5 resolution here is exactly the resolution -- I changed 6 "Bandera County" to "Kerr County," is the only changes. 7 Bandera county adopted it, and they tell me that all counties 8 in the state are adopting it as they go along. I'm just not 9 that familiar with the Second Amendment to the Constitution. 10 I'd also -- you know, it's things like this one "whereas" 11 here, to protect the general private users of firearms in 12 activities such as hunting and other sporting activities. I 13 didn't know that that was part of the Second Amendment. And, 14 I mean, I'm just -- I just don't know, so I've struggled with 15 that a little bit. My understanding is the Second Amendment 16 is for me to protect myself against the wild-eyed government, 17 and I'm all for that. So, you guys that are more in tune to 18 the Constitution than I am, if this looks like a solid, firm, 19 in tune with the legislation, then I'm -- I think that we 20 should adopt it, but if it's not, you know, let me know. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It's your agenda item. Are you 22 moving for adoption? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for adoption. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5-11-09 124 1 adoption of the resolution as presented. Question or 2 discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'll make is that, 4 you know, I have no problem with it as it is. I'm not all 5 that familiar with the Blair Holts Firearm Licensing, Record 6 or Sale Act, and my concern is, these resolutions, I would 7 prefer them to have more of a concept to them, rather than 8 citing a specific bill, because they may change the name of 9 the bill, and then it doesn't apply any more. But that being 10 said, it's on the agenda; I'll vote for it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 12 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 13 raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 19, 18 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on authorizing a 19 commissioner or the County Judge to represent the County at 20 City Council meetings concerning any agenda item relating to 21 funding of airport capital projects or E.I.C. Commissioner 22 Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda at the 24 -- after the last Airport Board meeting, not knowing what the 25 City was going to put on their agenda. It was kind of -- 5-11-09 125 1 that's why I worded it this way. And the City Council does 2 have on their agenda for tomorrow night an item -- I'm going 3 to paraphrase -- authorizing City Council to concur, or to 4 agree that the County is going to put their funding portion 5 of the drainage runway relocation project, Phase 2, on their 6 agenda for approval. And my logic behind this is -- or lack 7 of logic, is this is a -- this is a -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This meeting has kind of 9 gone south here. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a very political issue, 11 and I think we're in one mind-set, that we feel -- at least I 12 feel, and I think the whole Court feels the E.I.C. funding 13 should be eligible for projects at the airport, and outside 14 city limits. I just -- my understanding was that at the last 15 City Council meeting, one of the councilmen went off on a 16 dissertation about how horrible it was to do just those two 17 things, that being Councilman Coleman. And, you know, I 18 just -- if this is going to get into the public press, I 19 would rather have someone from the Court present to -- as a 20 rebuttal to them going off, you know, ranting about what they 21 think. And they haven't taken any action as a -- as a 22 Council whether they're going to change their policy, 'cause 23 in the past they have funded projects at the airport and they 24 have funded projects in the county. So, that was the reason 25 for the agenda item. The agenda item for tomorrow tonight is 5-11-09 126 1 very specific. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Agenda item for tomorrow night, 3 Commissioner, is to give authorization to the Airport Board 4 to present an application to E.I.C. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: For the County's portion of the 7 funding for Phase 2. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's correct. And the 9 -- the way the joint airport agreement is written, neither 10 entity can individually, without the consent of the other 11 anyway, go for a grant. And this is viewed as a grant by the 12 City Attorney, who also advises the airport. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't agree with you 14 more. Which one of you guys want it? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz has 16 really been angling for this. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a motion. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess -- and I don't 21 mind going, but the question is, what do you want me to say? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "No." No. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause, I mean -- and I'm not 25 sure that I'm in agreement with the Judge on this point. I 5-11-09 127 1 know you probably think this project should qualify, but I 2 think it is a relatively little fish at the moment because 3 of -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a bigger issue. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- because they found more 6 money. I'm more concerned about the big issue. This 7 particular issue, I think we have the funds in our general 8 fund largely due to a $166,000 sales tax pocket of money that 9 came in unexpectedly, so it's not going to be a budget-buster 10 for us to pull into our general fund to get this money. But 11 I really want the City Council to address this at some point, 12 that -- that the airport projects -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- should be eligible for this 15 funding, and that they're going to support it. I won't 16 say -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This particular -- this 18 particular one, you're not real interested whether they pick 19 up the tab on it or not because we have some extra... Why -- 20 why wouldn't have you the attitude of E.I.C. money should 21 cover the whole dadgum thing? I don't get that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the City has come out and 23 said they're not going to go to E.I.C. for their portion of 24 it, for whatever reason. I don't know what their logic is. 25 The 400,000 to come up with, the Airport Board is going to 5-11-09 128 1 use $250,000 of their reserve, which leaves 75,000 for the 2 County and 75,000 for the City. I agree with you. I mean, 3 it's -- and this, you know -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The City chooses not to 5 because they have money elsewhere. Well, I would think the 6 County chooses to. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be my attitude. 9 County chooses to go to E.I.C. for the money. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's exactly where 11 it is. We do choose to, and we asked the Airport Board to 12 advance an application on our behalf for that piece. So, I 13 think so. That leaves a broader, deeper philosophical issue 14 here that has to get fleshed out. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And my reason for this 16 is that if they vote not to do this, not to want the County 17 to do it, I just would -- you know, and it gets -- you know, 18 depending on what some members of the Council may or may not 19 say, I just think we need to have someone present. But they 20 may not let that person speak anyway, so... 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to take Rusty 22 with you? I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Send him an e-mail. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, what do you think? Is 25 it worthwhile for someone to be there or not? 5-11-09 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I know you're -- I mean, 3 I differed with you on this topic at the last meeting. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But for the -- but for the sudden 5 discovery of $250,000 that was in reserves that was, 6 according to reports I got, found that very day, I think it 7 was the City's intention to go to E.I.C. for the local match 8 participation for Phase 2. I think -- I think that was what 9 the agenda item probably was more directed to when the 10 Airport Board put it on the Council's agenda item last time. 11 And then, to the surprise of virtually everyone present, we 12 didn't have the $400,000 problem; we only have a $150,000 13 problem. And I think the Council's action in -- in amending 14 their budget to provide for the City's payment of $75,000 out 15 of the general fund was probably a good way to avoid the very 16 issue that you and I think needs to be resolved as a matter 17 of principle. And I still don't know but what they may, at 18 some subsequent date, go to E.I.C. and ask for a 19 reimbursement of that $75,000. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, there -- there have been 22 instances in the past where they have paid an obligation out 23 of the city general fund, and then had subsequently sought 24 and received reimbursement from E.I.C. for economic 25 development type items, which you and I both view this as. 5-11-09 130 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, I think there's an issue insofar 3 as the legal interpretation of applying for the grant. If 4 the application were being made on behalf of both the City 5 and the County, I think there would have to be concurrence in 6 giving permission to the Airport Board by both bodies, the 7 City and the County, for the Airport Board to make that 8 application. The -- the language in applying, it says "each 9 party." If the application is only being made by the County, 10 I think another interpretation of that provision of the 11 interlocal agreement could be that as long as whoever that 12 application for a grant is being made on behalf of gives 13 permission, the other body has no dog in the fight; 14 therefore, is not required. So -- but that seems to be a 15 reservation of a legal issue. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On one statement you made, 17 based on their interpretation, they cannot go to E.I.C. for 18 -- to get reimbursed without our permission. Because they're 19 saying that we can't go, and so they're also saying that they 20 can't go. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest to you -- I would 22 suggest to you that their interpretation might be different 23 from what you said. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know, though. 25 Reimbursement is different from a grant application. I think 5-11-09 131 1 they can. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it's an interesting 3 point, too. And, incidentally, -- just quickly; I know it's 4 about lunchtime -- the $250,000 that was found, it was 5 brought up and explained. I think Josh did a pretty good job 6 of explaining it. The funds -- I think Jeannie was there 7 too. You might have to help me with this. But due to -- the 8 prior Airport Manager, Mr. Pearce, kept a lot of this stuff 9 in his head, and kind of how the money was tracked, and it 10 wasn't tracked as well before Mr. McKenzie came on board, and 11 during that period was when this money was kind of put in a 12 reserve fund over there that really wasn't real well known 13 how much was in there. And Josh found out the amount that 14 was there by basically auditing how much money was in the 15 reserve account and how many projects they currently have 16 going, and what the status of those were and what payables 17 were outstanding, and there was a difference, and it was 18 there where the money was determined to be there. It came 19 from a project several years ago to this fund. Which project 20 was it, Bill? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think -- I think 22 the capital improvement program had this taxiway relocation 23 for some time, and each time it became a part of our CIP, and 24 we also -- we put money systematically into it. And then it 25 got forgotten about, so to speak, and then they go to E.I.C. 5-11-09 132 1 and get the money to make the match. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the moneys that have 4 been put up by the City and County prior are sitting over 5 there. And everybody said, "Oh, wonder where that came 6 from." 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They lumped it into capital 8 projects, and they don't really segregate each line item, but 9 they do segregate it, so it's kind of confusing. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I was somewhat surprised that 11 the Airport Board did not know what funds they had available 12 for airport use, capital projects, budget surpluses or 13 whatever. You recall when -- when the airport people were 14 here with us at a special meeting, that apparently 15 immediately following this last budget year, or about the end 16 of it, they discovered that they had $140,000 that they were 17 not aware that they had. And -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think any agency ought to know 20 what funds they have available to them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that -- and those -- that 22 140,000 came about by one of the board members, Stephen King, 23 asking the question. "We had a good year; our revenues were 24 up and our expenses were down. What happens to this money?" 25 And, the answer was, "Oh, well, you've got 140,000 in reserve 5-11-09 133 1 now." 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the reasons, Judge, 3 is that I don't think the Airport Board has ever 4 systematically seen a balance sheet down through the years. 5 If they'd seen a balance sheet, they might have known that 6 they had some cash reserves. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, back to this 8 issue, is it -- I mean, I'll be glad to go if the Court as a 9 whole thinks that I should go, wants me to go. I'll be glad 10 not to go if it's just -- if it's not necessary. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a -- we have a motion and a 12 second that you be designated as the County's representative 13 for the purposes as expressed in the agenda item, according 14 to my understanding. You made the motion; correct, 15 Commissioner? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And you seconded, Commissioner 18 Baldwin? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is also correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Do we have any further 21 discussion? Questions? All in favor of the motion, signify 22 by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're covered. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-11-09 134 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why don't 3 we talk about the bills before we go to Item 20, which we'll 4 take up lastly. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's very short. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go to Section 4 of the 7 agenda, payment of the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple of 9 questions. On Page 7, the Child Service Board, birthday 10 moneys. And I'm curious about this, because I haven't seen 11 this in a good, long time. Months. 12 MS. HARGIS: No, you haven't, because they had 13 somebody new take over, and we have asked for a report and 14 how much they needed, and they finally got us a report. So, 15 we've gone several months; in fact, I think almost since 16 September. They had a change in management there, and the 17 lady who did it left, and nobody else knew how to do it. And 18 we call every month to try to get them, but they didn't know 19 how to give them to us. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is this -- do you 21 think that this group here brings us up to date, and 22 everything in the arrears? 23 MS. HARGIS: I can't tell you that for sure. I do 24 know that I did not authorize her to pay any past birthday 25 money, because I -- you know, I'm sorry, because I don't know 5-11-09 135 1 if those kids would get it. But anything forward through 2 now, I have authorized. But they had some that were old, and 3 I said no, we're not paying those, 'cause we don't know if 4 the kids are going to get them or not. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, we don't know 6 if they're going to get this either, but that's beside the 7 point. Okay, thank you for that. Another thing I noticed, 8 on Page 8, Freeman-Fritts shelter, seven through -- there's a 9 whole list of them, vet services and operating expenses and 10 all that. What I'm noticing on here are the dates, like 11 February of '08 and April of '08 and May of '08, on down the 12 line. I've always understood that when we have -- when we 13 start a new budget, that we run 30 days or so to take care of 14 those from the previous budget, but here we're in over a 15 year. What's the story? 16 MS. HARGIS: We had some bills from this company -- 17 from this veterinarian service last year, and we asked them 18 to be checked, and they didn't get paid. And so they wrote 19 us a letter and called us and said, you know, we really need 20 these bills paid. So we went through and checked to make 21 sure that we had not paid this. We had the Animal Shelter 22 Director come in and review these bills, and they had not 23 been paid, so we owed them, and regardless of whether they 24 were last year or this year, we needed to pay them. And they 25 are late; they're over a year, some of them. So, I don't 5-11-09 136 1 know the exact system that she goes through with these. 2 These are trays. I think -- I understand the shots that she 3 -- shots that she gets for the animals -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not paid because -- 5 I mean, have you been sitting on the bills and just refused 6 to pay them for a year? Or why -- why is it that they 7 weren't paid? 8 MS. HARGIS: Some of the bills -- I think some of 9 them, originally, we -- the director felt they had been paid 10 and felt they had been paid, and then when we researched 11 them, they had not been paid. There's a -- there's a kind of 12 -- this particular entity doesn't apparently bill anyone but 13 us, and so there's kind of a problem here with that. And, 14 you know, to be honest with you, I'm not exactly sure of the 15 exact procedures that we go through with this particular vet. 16 I do know that they provide us these trays, and that's pretty 17 much all I know, except that apparently they're not used to 18 billing anyone else but us, and so they do get behind. And 19 so we're kind of -- and then we try to pay them. But some of 20 them, we thought -- I think the director thought they had 21 been paid, and then they came back again and said they had 22 not, so we didn't show any record of payment, so we -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 MS. HARGIS: -- felt obligated to pay for what we 25 had purchased. 5-11-09 137 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Are there funds in the current 2 budget to handle it? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. HARGIS: We'll have to move some amendments, 6 but she has the funds. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Anyone care to 9 offer a motion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move we pay the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for payment 13 of the bills. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 14 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Do we have any 19 budget amendments? 20 MS. HARGIS: Not at this time. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 22 MS. HARGIS: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We just had some late bills, didn't 24 we? I have been presented with monthly reports from 25 Constable, Precinct 1; Road and Bridge; County Clerk; Justice 5-11-09 138 1 of the Peace, Precinct 2; Constable, Precinct 4; and Justice 2 of the Peace, Precinct 3. Do I hear a motion that these 3 bills be approved -- these reports as be approved as 4 presented? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the reports as presented. Question or 9 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Reports from 15 Commissioners in connection with their liaison assignments? 16 Commissioner 4? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple things. Kerr County 22 job report for the month of March, our unemployment rate was 23 down from February. It was reported for March at 24 5.2 percent, down two-tenths of a point from the previous 25 month. There's some grants that were approved that have some 5-11-09 139 1 benefit to Kerr County. First of all was the infrastructure 2 grant, on-site septic replacements. That went through with a 3 favorable review in the amount of $262,500. City of 4 Kerrville got a Hill Country Combined Special Operations Unit 5 grant favorable review or award for $6,200. Let me see what 6 else here. Some smaller ones that benefit deputy training 7 under TCLEOSE, and a few other smaller grants which Kerr 8 County will be a participant in some of that if we're 9 approved. And then there's one for the Baptist services -- 10 Baptist Child and Family Services, Health and Human Services 11 Youth Diverted from Delinquency program; they got almost a 12 hundred thousand dollars, $99,993. One other thing I wanted 13 to bring to the Court's attention, Judge, if you will, we've 14 had a lot of discussion over the last several months in the 15 rural judges meeting, aside from the AACOG board, with 16 respect to the formation of an Alamo Regional Rural Planning 17 Organization for transportation issues which would complement 18 the metropolitan planning organization, and at the last rural 19 judges meeting, we tweaked these and finally adopted Alamo 20 Regional Rural Planning Organization Articles of 21 Incorporation, bylaws and so forth and so on. I'll give it 22 to you for your study. If there's any questions or comments 23 that you have on them, direct them to me and we'll go from 24 there. But this is to allow the rural counties that surround 25 the metropolitan planning organization working with TexDOT to 5-11-09 140 1 be involved in all transportation issues that make a lot of 2 sense or that don't make any sense, and let that be known. 3 The most forceful example would be, had this organization 4 been involved when the Trans-Texas Corridor had been 5 proposed, it might not have got as much traction as it really 6 did, or excited so many people. We'd have had better 7 understanding of it going in. So, that's kind of it, Judge. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner 3? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an update on the 10 legislation I've been working on in Austin. It looks like 11 it's going to have a slow death. It's in calendars. It has 12 not got out of calendars. Representative Rose is working 13 hard to get it out, but it has until Thursday midnight to get 14 out, and it's just -- the clock is ticking on it. And that's 15 what happens to much legislation in Austin; it just gets kind 16 of stuck there. It still may come out, but it may not. I 17 talked to people in Kendall County this morning about it a 18 little bit, and, you know, I guess the good news is, I think 19 it's -- if it, worst case, doesn't come out, doesn't go 20 anywhere this year, it's in a position to be acted on a lot 21 quicker next session. The bill's pretty much written now, 22 but just -- that's just the way things go sometimes up there, 23 and we'll have to see. Still a couple days, but it doesn't 24 look real, real good. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I had a discussion with 5-11-09 141 1 Representative Hilderbran Saturday evening and asked him 2 about the status of that, and -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two-step. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, actually, my question to him 5 is, "Have you added Kerr County to the bill?" And he said 6 no, it was his intention to add all counties in his district 7 to the bill when it got to the floor, counties who had passed 8 resolutions in support of either the bill or what the bill 9 contained. But he said that the likelihood that it's going 10 to get to the floor is pretty slim at this point. It has to 11 get there pretty quick. Essentially, the same thing you got. 12 Do we have any reports from elected officials? Department 13 heads? Sheriff? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick, y'all had -- 15 I know it had come up about our medical contracts and that. 16 This is their -- it's really not a quarterly report, 'cause 17 the first two months they were getting organized, but it -- 18 so you can look at it. If you have more questions, you can 19 ask me more. But very briefly and basically, I'll say we're 20 tickled to death with it. It's worked real well. Our 21 monthly prescription cost, just to give you an example, has 22 dropped over $2,000 a month, okay? Major improvement with 23 the way they're doing this. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you -- so, I'm 25 taking the term "tickled to death" as -- 5-11-09 142 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm happy with it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a good -- okay. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jeez, I'll send you an e-mail 4 and give you an explanation, Buster. Commissioner, did you 5 say something about a grant from -- for training for 6 deputies? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there's some money 8 going into TCLEOSE. I'll tell you about it afterwards. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause I haven't heard 10 anything about that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll share it with you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials have 13 anything? Department heads? Ms. Hargis? 14 MS. HARGIS: I just came back from a meeting with 15 the Texas Association of Auditors last week, and I do want to 16 just kind of make y'all aware to keep watching that revenue 17 cap bill, because that is out there. And Tommy Williams is 18 threatening to sign any type of a bill like that that he gets 19 across his desk, to try to push it. It's not a good bill. 20 The way it's written is not good. So, kind of keep your eye 21 out. I don't know where Hilderbran stands on that, but we -- 22 they still have, what, 15 days left to do what they want to 23 do. And they're concerned it may end up as an amendment or a 24 rider or something of that nature, so we -- we really need to 25 be careful with that one. They aren't going to change the 5-11-09 143 1 appraisals, but the revenue cap -- and it -- it's set to -- 2 according to them, that we'd hit that 5 percent without even 3 turning around. So, it's going to be a bad bill. So, 4 hopefully it won't pass, but if you do see it, I know y'all 5 get the little alerts as well, and so please watch them. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Any other reports? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a TAC notice on our 8 e-mail right now about that topic of the three bills, Senate 9 Bill 700 by Patrick, and Eltife and Gattis and by Williams, 10 and they all bear your reading. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, Gattis is the one that they say 12 is the one you need to be aware of, the one that Gattis has 13 got. Patrick's -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Patrick bill is a -- 15 MS. HARGIS: Patrick's bill hasn't gotten anywhere 16 very much. But -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's not a revenue cap bill. 18 It's a -- it's a rollback bill, if I'm not mistaken, if it's 19 the same one I'm thinking about. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what they're saying 21 about the Gattis bill, House Bill 2291, is that it's, quote, 22 a transparency bill which started out that way, and passed by 23 the House on May 7th, and could face attempts in the Senate 24 to amend it into a revenue cap bill. There's where the 25 danger lies. 5-11-09 144 1 MS. HARGIS: That's where they say the danger is. 2 But the other thing, the transparency -- that did remind me. 3 You know, I heard, and I don't know for sure, because we -- 4 we had a company that came to give us a demonstration on how 5 we would put that transparency on the computer and -- you 6 know, kind of a software vendor. But they said they changed 7 the population number to 250,000, so we won't have to do 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's this year. 10 Next time they meet, then they lower it to 50,000. 11 MS. HARGIS: Well, hopefully we don't have to do 12 that. I mean, we're showing the transparency now. It goes 13 out there every week -- every two weeks, we put it online. 14 It's the drilling down into our system that -- that will cost 15 us a lot of money to have done, and that opens us up for 16 security problems and everything else. So, you know, 17 hopefully -- hopefully, they'll bring it down in increments 18 of 100,000, Commissioner Williams. Let's hope for the best. 19 Okay, thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports from elected 21 officials? Department heads? Okay. At this time, we will 22 go into recess of the Commissioners Court meeting, and it is 23 12:18, to go into executive session to consider an item on 24 the agenda. 25 \ 5-11-09 145 1 (The open session was closed at 12:18 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 2 is contained in a separate document.) - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go back into open or 4 public session at 12:26. Any member of the Court have 5 anything to offer with respect to anything that was 6 considered in executive or closed session? Okay, I gather 7 not. Anything further to come before the Court today? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just cannot -- I've 9 been scratching my brain; I can't come up with anything. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's amazing. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if you think of anything, we'll 13 get to it in a couple of weeks. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll be adjourned. 16 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:27 p.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-11-09 146 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 15th day of May, 2009. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5-11-09