1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X May 26, 2009 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 5 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request from the Kerrville Charity Rodeo (Lester Meier Rodeo) to be added to nonprofit list to 5 receive reduced rate at H.C.Y.E.C. 9 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on proposed changes to the "Order Requiring the 7 Registration of Dangerous Wild Animals"; set a public hearing 13 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 have Commissioners Court approve authorized signers for investment accounts 22 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 11 for Commissioners Court to approve agreement authorizing wire transfers form with Hillcrest 12 Bank for money market account; authorize County Judge to sign same 25 13 1.5 Presentation of County Treasurer's monthly 14 report for April 2009 to Commissioners Court for examination and acceptance 26 15 1.6 Consider/discuss, award bid and/or take other 16 action on bids received for replacement of court- house windows and replacement/renovation of doors 17 and door units in older part of courthouse 27 18 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding requested budget amendment for capital 19 outlay, building covers for three horse stalls and running water lines to same 34 20 1.8 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the 21 submission by Kerr County Juvenile Board for American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009; 22 Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Formula Grant Program funding for FY 2009-2010 36 23 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 24 regarding submission of grant application for American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009: 25 Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Formula Grant Program for 2009-2010, and adopt resolution 38 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) May 26, 2009 2 PAGE 1.10 Presentation from Charles Ridgeway on the 3 R.C. McBride/Phillips 66 Oil Company fuel card 40 4 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on placing two porta-potties at Ingram Lake 49 5 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 review and approve the concept plan for Old River Road RV Resort 52 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 join National Flood Insurance Program Community Rating System to provide flood insurance policy 9 holders a discount on annual premiums 72 10 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set a date for Commissioners Court Workshop for the 11 purpose of completing review of Kerr County Personnel Policy Handbook sections 76 12 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 declare certain personal property as surplus and approve sale of same 78 14 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 approval for additional deputy for Constable, Precinct 1 81 16 1.16A Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 17 purchase used truck for Kerr County Maintenance 84 18 4.1 Pay Bills 86 4.2 Budget Amendments 86 19 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 95 20 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 96 21 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 102 22 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on personnel issue (Executive Session) 111 23 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 24 evaluation of employees that report directly to the Commissioners Court 111 25 --- Adjourned 144 4 1 On Tuesday, May 26, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court scheduled and posted for this time and 10 date, Tuesday, May 26, 2009, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 11 If you would be kind enough, please, stand and join me in a 12 moment of prayer followed by the pledge of allegiance to the 13 flag of our country. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Be seated, please. At 16 this time, if there's any member of the public or the 17 audience that wishes to be heard in connection with any 18 matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is your 19 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 20 If you wish to be heard on a particular agenda item, we'd ask 21 that you fill out a participation form. They are located at 22 the back of the room. That's not absolutely essential. If 23 we get to an agenda item and you feel like you want to offer 24 input into a particular item, get my attention in some 25 fashion if you haven't filled out a participation form, and 5-26-09 5 1 I'll see that you have the opportunity to be heard. But 2 right now, if there's any member of the public or audience 3 that wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a listed 4 agenda item, come forward at this time and tell us what's on 5 your mind. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on. 6 Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for us this morning? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have anything, 8 Judge. I'm just real excited about being able to serve the 9 great taxpayers, and -- and that's about all. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fun time this weekend. Had 12 a lot of good things going on in Kerr County. The fair was 13 unusually good until the rainstorm hit on Saturday morning 14 and knocked some poor little old pottery maker's tent down, 15 broke all his pottery up, and knocked the entrance tent down 16 and made the polo fields a loblolly of mud. But other than 17 that, it was a good time. Looks like they had a pretty good 18 crowd. I was pleased to stop by the American Legion on 19 Monday and pick up a community service award, and join the 20 good folks down there underneath the trees for a memorial 21 service. Fine weekend. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill -- Judge, wait just a 23 minute. Is "loblolly" a real word? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it is. Used to be two 25 words, but it's now one. 5-26-09 6 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One, okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think there's a community by that 3 name. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Loblolly. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a tree named that, 7 loblolly pine. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the educational 9 portion of the -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You asked the question. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You asked the question. 12 (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is good. Thank you 14 very much. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really, nothing. Just glad to 17 get to work. Got some rain. Hope we get some more. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I want to talk 20 about just for a second is, we're going to put up some new 21 signage at Ingram Lake, and it's not going to be the reciting 22 of the laws and tell them how much all the fines are for 23 everything. It's going to be a reminder about being safe, 24 following safe boating practices, and just kind of living 25 within the laws that exist so we don't have to make any more. 5-26-09 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good idea. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to put some big 3 letters on top of those signs that have the word "please" on 4 top of it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rather than just hammering 7 people, saying if you don't, this is what's going to happen. 8 And so, that's -- we're working on that, and it's just 9 informational. There's not anything on there reciting any 10 court orders or anything other than a reminder that boating 11 carries -- boating under the influence carries the same 12 penalty as driving under the influence. You can lose your 13 driver's license. That's one of the biggest points we want 14 to make. And I've met with the Sheriff and Parks and 15 Wildlife, and it seems the Sheriff's going to get some -- 16 some of his people certified, Pam Robinson being one of them, 17 in the marine end, so they can also issue citations to work 18 with Parks and Wildlife on some law enforcement as needed. 19 So, that's about all I have. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We -- as Commissioner 21 Williams mentioned, we had a weather incident out at the Arts 22 and Crafts Fair over the weekend, and I want to commend our 23 maintenance people who sprung into action out there, helping 24 folks out that became victims of that -- that weather 25 incident. It seems that out in the polo fields, where they 5-26-09 8 1 had a lot of parking, why, some of the folks found themselves 2 bogged down in the mud and couldn't get out, and our 3 maintenance people were kind enough to spring into action, 4 get their tractors out there and available and help those 5 folks to get out. So, as usual, they're on station, ready to 6 go, and did. 7 Commissioner Williams also mentioned the ceremony 8 that we had out here yesterday at the Kerr County War 9 Memorial, and that memorial needs to be expanded, because 10 we've got additional Kerr Countians that need to be 11 recognized for the sacrifice they made for their country. I 12 am soliciting input from all stakeholders, interested 13 parties, veterans, family members, citizens, veterans groups. 14 Two things that we need in the way of input. One is, we want 15 to be sure that we identify all of the Kerr Countians that 16 need to be on that memorial that are not presently there, so 17 that we can be certain to add them and to honor them as they 18 deserve to be. The second thing we need to do is to come up 19 with a design scheme on how that memorial should be expanded 20 in order to add these additional names. So, any member of 21 the public, citizens, veterans' families, veterans groups, 22 anybody that has any of this information or ideas, I'd 23 appreciate having the benefit of that, and ask that you 24 please get it to me so that we may move forward and get this 25 accomplished. Thank you, and let's move on with our 5-26-09 9 1 business. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that topic, can you 3 put that on our agenda? Or I can put it on the agenda, too, 4 for that matter, coming up, just so that we can discuss it a 5 little bit. We discussed it once before, and Rex is going to 6 start shaking his head if I talk much more about it, so... 7 (Laughter.) That way we'll get a little bit of discussion on 8 that; maybe we'll get some ideas. Doesn't have to be right 9 away. Sometime. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Let's move to the 11 first item on the agenda. First item is to consider, 12 discuss, and take appropriate action on request from the 13 Kerrville Charity Rodeo, known as the Lester Meier Rodeo, to 14 be added to the nonprofit list to receive a reduced rate at 15 the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. I'm showing that this 16 item is to be presented by Mr. Richard Page. Mr. Page? 17 MR. PAGE: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, please, and remove 19 your hat. 20 MR. PAGE: Yes, sir. I'm not used to doing this, 21 so you'll have to excuse me. Well, I just noticed in the 22 paper that y'all granted the Hill Country Barrel Association 23 a reduced fee because they donated $250 to a nonprofit 24 organization. We did the rodeo last year; we donated roughly 25 $7,500 to a nonprofit organization. Me and Tammy Wren did 5-26-09 10 1 not receive anything. We -- she mainly worked harder than I 2 did. I worked also. We don't take any money from anything, 3 so it -- we're truly -- me and her are truly nonprofit. 4 Everything we raise -- we get sponsorships from the 5 businesses here in the community to help pay for the rodeo 6 itself, to pay Lester, to pay the entry to the added money, 7 everything. And then we take the gate money, and we take the 8 proceeds from the concessions, after -- minus the cost of the 9 concessions, and donate them to nonprofit organizations. 10 Last year we did -- oh, now, you have to forgive me. This 11 year it's Kids Advocacy Place. Last year it was -- I can't 12 remember now, I'm sorry. It was another -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: K'Star? 14 MR. PAGE: Yes, sir, K'Star, thank you. And so 15 we're just -- she figured -- I figured it couldn't hurt to 16 come up and ask y'all if we could get a better rate on the 17 facility. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a specific organization 19 that's a legal entity; for example, a nonprofit organization? 20 MR. PAGE: No. No, sir, we do not have a nonprofit 21 number -- I guess they call it a nonprofit number -- 'cause 22 it costs, like, $2,000 to get it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not really. 24 MR. PAGE: So that's -- the thing is, we don't do 25 it that way because we can't afford to spend our own money to 5-26-09 11 1 do it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They really don't cost 3 $2,000 to get it. 4 MR. PAGE: That's what she told me. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can get a 6 not-for-profit organization certificate from the state -- 7 Secretary of State for just the cost of the postage. You can 8 get it from the Internal Revenue Service by having an 9 accountant help you file the necessary papers. 10 MR. PAGE: Okay. No, sir, that -- I mean, I 11 haven't checked into that. I mean, I'm actually a rodeo 12 contestant that got kind of -- I volunteered last year to 13 help her out, and now I'm -- I'm before y'all. So, that 14 tells you I've gone from one end to the other, both ends of 15 the arena. (Laughter.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: They sent a bronc rider up here, 17 huh? 18 MR. PAGE: Yes, sir. So, I mean, that's 19 basically -- I just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask y'all. 20 Either y'all would say yes or no. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me tell you the concerns I would 22 have, Mr. Page. 23 MR. PAGE: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: If there's an organization that's 25 involved that's -- that's a legal entity, that's formed under 5-26-09 12 1 the laws of this state, that has ongoing continuity, as 2 opposed to an individual or two that there may be a change of 3 leadership or participation, we prefer to have an 4 organization that we're dealing with, because it's an ongoing 5 continuity situation. Secondly, I think the thing that 6 probably caused us to favor the other organization was they 7 came up with a plan, which is a relatively permanent plan for 8 scholarship. I'm not -- I'm not suggesting that that is not 9 your intent, but what I am suggesting is that if you've got a 10 legal entity organization that's recognized under the laws of 11 this state, and the board of that organization formally 12 adopts a plan, I think then we're in a much better position 13 to give favorable consideration to your group. As 14 Commissioner Williams said, there's -- I think there's a 15 nominal filing fee for nonprofit organizations over at the -- 16 over at the Secretary of State's office. It's $10, or maybe 17 -- maybe as much as $50, but it's rather nominal, unlike a 18 commercial corporation. But then you -- you seek your status 19 from the Internal Revenue Service, and hopefully, if you get 20 yourself a legal entity organization recognized as nonprofit 21 under the laws of the state of Texas, you can get some 22 volunteer assistance from someone with some degree of 23 background and experience in the county that can file the 24 necessary documents for you on a pro bono basis with the 25 Internal Revenue Service. But at this point, with there not 5-26-09 13 1 being a legal entity that's recognized, I would be reluctant 2 to support you. 3 MR. PAGE: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's my reasoning for it. I 5 hate to rain on your parade, but -- 6 MR. PAGE: No, sir, that's fine. I'm one of those, 7 all you can do is say no. So, all right. Well, thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't mean to preempt the other 10 members of the Court. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I think you did. And 12 you did well. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Took the heat, huh? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that what you're saying? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you just told him the 19 truth. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that item? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, he's gone. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Doesn't keep us from 23 considering it. Let's move on to Item 2, if we might. 24 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on proposed 25 changes to the order requiring the registration of dangerous 5-26-09 14 1 wild animals, set a public hearing. Commissioner Oehler. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I put this back on the 3 agenda. We have -- I think we've had -- this will be the 4 third time this has been on the agenda. And the only thing 5 that I would propose changing would be on the -- would be 6 from henceforth to possibly ban those animals. Otherwise, we 7 keep the same thing we have now and allow them, and allow 8 them under the conditions and requirements of what the state 9 law and Kerr County rules say. We've already had a public 10 hearing; I don't know if we need to set another one or not if 11 we want do this. I visited with Rex about it. He's -- he 12 basically has the new -- written the new way, the way that 13 that would be proposed and be adopted. And I do believe if 14 we were to do this, that we should give a fair grace period 15 between now and the time the law would actually go into -- 16 the order would go into effect to allow anyone here now that 17 has those animals to have ample time to get legal, if they 18 are here presently. That would be my -- my thoughts on it. 19 And I think other counties -- Jon, didn't you say that most 20 all the other counties around us have already adopted this, 21 an order like that, to ban them? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my understanding. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And as we grow and we get 24 more property and we have more lots closer together and homes 25 closer together -- and there's no way we can ban them, only 5-26-09 15 1 in cities. That's up to the cities to do that. We can't, 2 according to Rex, do that according to acreage. You can't 3 say somebody that's got 1 acre can't have one and somebody 4 that has 1,000 acres can. That's not legal either. So, you 5 either have to ban them or you have to leave it as it 6 presently is, and allowing them under certain conditions. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, last time we 8 had a -- you put it on the agenda as a public hearing, we 9 didn't -- we didn't tell the public what the changes were. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I would be more 12 comfortable if we had a public hearing where the public 13 actually knew what the changes that were being proposed -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- are. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, do we need -- will we 17 make a proposed change and then hold a public hearing? Or 18 would we do that at the public hearing proposing those 19 changes? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that you have laid 21 out what you deem to be one possibility for a proposed 22 change, and my thinking would be that's what the public 23 hearing would be on, is that proposed new order as you've 24 laid it out. And -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 5-26-09 16 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is laid before us now. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All right. Well, I can make 3 a motion to that effect and set a public hearing, then. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What would be the next 6 chance, 30 days? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think this requires 30 8 days, but it can be. Probably two weeks is all it requires. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to get to you. 10 MS. TUMA: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whenever you want. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just -- just thinking 13 that we might -- it doesn't have to be adopted after a public 14 hearing. We can either choose to adopt or not. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I'm going to make a 17 motion that -- that we change our present dangerous and wild 18 animal order to reflect a ban on animals after a 45-day grace 19 period, and set a public hearing for the next regular 20 Commissioners meeting at 10 o'clock. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 24 Question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question about what you 5-26-09 17 1 just said. The proposed order would ban them after 45 days? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or grandfather them? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Grandfather the ones that are 5 presently here. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And ban them after the 45-day 8 grace period once we either -- if we choose to adopt the 9 order, or the change. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two things. One, my second was 11 more, I think, to get this thing moving along, not that I 12 necessarily agree with it. But what are the differences 13 between the current -- what's attached and what you're 14 proposing? I mean, is it the same? I mean, I read through 15 the attachment, and it looks like it's the same order that we 16 have. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is the same order. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No wonder it looked like it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rex? Help me out here, Rex. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the change would be adding 22 the -- 23 MR. EMERSON: Paragraph 1 is different, where 24 Paragraph 1 invokes the ban, and then Paragraph 2 was 25 restated to grandfather existing animals, and the sentence 5-26-09 18 1 underneath it limits the exception to currently registered 2 animals, nontransferable. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And your motion would set a public 5 hearing on these proposed changes, to grandfather existing 6 animals, allow a 45-day grace period to allow registration of 7 those who currently have them after the adoption of the order 8 to come into compliance, and thereafter ban any further 9 animals; is that correct? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The only question I would have, 12 Commissioner, I -- by my count, that's only 13 days until the 13 June 8th Commissioners Court hearing. Is 13 days adequate, 14 Mr. Emerson? 15 MR. EMERSON: Just have to be able to publish 16 notice, Your Honor. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The second meeting? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do the second meeting. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Which would be the 22nd. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 22nd at 10 a.m. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll see what kind of input 23 we get and make a decision at that point. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. I'm 25 going to wait until I hear from the public, if I hear from 5-26-09 19 1 the public. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we hear. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, if we were going 4 to vote today, I wouldn't vote for the change, myself. It's 5 just my own personal opinion. But if -- if the masses come 6 in here -- which they will not, but if they do, then I'm 7 certainly willing to listen to them. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, can we add to this, if 9 it's adopted, a way to specifically cite our current order 10 and revoke it so we don't have two of them on record? 11 MR. EMERSON: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't we amend the 13 order? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's easier to me to get 15 rid of the old one and have a new one if we're going to 16 change it at the time that we do the change. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I received a participation form from 18 Amy Tuma. Ms. Tuma, as you can see from the action taken 19 today, all that we've done, or proposed to have done, is -- 20 we haven't taken a vote on it yet. 21 MS. TUMA: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is to set a public hearing for the 23 public to come in and give their thoughts about these 24 proposed changes. That public hearing, according to the 25 motion, would be set for June 22nd at 10 a.m. I suspect you 5-26-09 20 1 wanted to speak to the merits or lack thereof of the proposed 2 changes -- 3 MS. TUMA: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at this point in time? 5 MS. TUMA: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, the public hearing would 7 be -- 8 MS. TUMA: The better place to do it? As you can 9 see, I'm the only one here from the exotic community, and 10 Kerrville was almost based on the exotic animal market, and 11 I'm the only one here. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 MS. TUMA: So that shows -- I was calling 14 everybody, trying to get -- and they're like, "What are you 15 talking about?" And no one even knew about this meeting this 16 morning. And I just -- I have a little picture I want to 17 show you guys too. Just to let you know, the blanket 18 proposal, the animals they're talking about, I think it's 19 kind of a slippery slope they were starting to go down, 20 because one of the animals listed is a serval cat. A lot of 21 people have been cross-breeding these servals, ocelots, you 22 know, what they would call dangerous animals, to regular 23 house cats now. But the amendment specifically says 24 "hybrids," so there's people that have what they think are 25 house cats that actually are going to become illegal. In 5-26-09 21 1 Florida they did the exact same proposal, and they started 2 banning illegal or dangerous animals, and all of a sudden, 3 zebras became dangerous, emus became dangerous, ostriches 4 became dangerous, black buck, and deer, because deer kill 150 5 people every year on the highway. So, I want the Court to be 6 aware, this is a slippery slope that we're starting on. This 7 is our livelihood, is exotic animals, and if we start saying, 8 "Well, you can have these, but you can't have these," that 9 just opens the door for everybody to say, "No, those are 10 dangerous too; we can't have those either." So -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about hogs and fire 12 ants? 13 MS. TUMA: Exactly. (Laughter.) My neighbor's 14 actual house cat killed more of my goats this year than, you 15 know, the mountain lion that we're trying to catch. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, she has a mountain 17 lion. 18 MS. TUMA: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Little one. 20 MS. TUMA: She's getting bigger now. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Tuma, it occurs to me that if 22 this motion that's on the table here is approved and this 23 process goes forward, this would give you an opportunity 24 to -- 25 MS. TUMA: Get everybody together, rally the 5-26-09 22 1 troops. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MS. TUMA: Yes, for sure. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 5 MS. TUMA: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Any 7 further question or discussion on the motion? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the date of the 9 public hearing? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 6/22/09 at 10 a.m. All in favor of 11 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 16 to Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 17 have Commissioners Court approve authorized signers for 18 investment accounts. Ms. Williams? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. Good morning. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: We're trying to take advantage of 22 the F.D.I.C.'.s raising the limits from 100,000 to 250,000 23 coverage through the end of December. We have a couple of 24 C.D.'s that we've bought from other banks. This is actually 25 a money market, and there is -- well, actually, this is on 5-26-09 23 1 one of the investments. The financial institutions asked for 2 a list of authorized signers, and as far as I could tell, we 3 don't have a list on the investment signers. That was why I 4 was creating this list by positions instead of individuals. 5 This way we'll have it; we'll have the court order. If we 6 are required to have another authorized list, we have it in 7 place; we can send it to the financial institution and go 8 forward on our paperwork. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And it will be done by position 10 rather than by -- 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- individual proper-named person? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. And the reason I did that is 14 because we do have changes in employers -- employees, so that 15 was why. And I covered this with the County Auditor first. 16 I ran it by her and she said yes, that is really the way to 17 handle it. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Williams, is there a 19 specific number that needs to be in there? A number of 20 people that needs to be -- 21 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir. Just any -- well, any two 22 of the four positions that are there are authorized. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any two of the four? So, we 24 need to approve two. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: We need to approve all four 5-26-09 24 1 positions. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve all 3 four positions. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval as presented. Question or discussion on the motion? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. 8 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where does it say it takes two 10 people to sign? 11 MS. WILLIAMS: It doesn't on here, but most of the 12 paperwork that we get from financial institutions, we ask 13 them -- or tell them that we require two signatures. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should say that in 15 this -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- document. I mean, I think 18 it should be a requirement. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Following positions, any 20 two of which may sign. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or two are required to sign. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Your motion is so amended? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're accepting of that? 5-26-09 25 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion is amended as indicated. 3 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 4 by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 9 to Item 4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for 10 Commissioners Court to approve agreement authorizing wire 11 transfers form with Hillcrest Bank for money market account 12 and authorize County Judge to sign same. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: This -- this is one of the money 14 market accounts that we are trying to set up. I did give a 15 copy of the paperwork to the County Attorney, and he 16 suggested that we do put on it the agenda authorizing the 17 Judge to sign it. Basically, all it is is requiring 18 signatures and position of individuals who would be 19 authorized to do wire transfers out of the account should we 20 have to transfer money. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Here again, two of the four? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, two of the four. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hillcrest Bank is where? 24 MS. WILLIAMS: I believe that they are in Austin. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Austin? 5-26-09 26 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include two of the four? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and seconded as 7 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 8 favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 13 Item 5, presentation of the County Treasurer's monthly report 14 for April 2009 to Commissioners Court for the Court's 15 examination and acceptance. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. You have attached the 17 April report. Basically, if you've got any questions, I'd be 18 glad to answer them for you. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there any major changes 20 from last month to this month? 21 MS. WILLIAMS: No, sir, I don't think so. We're 22 holding pretty steady on our revenues. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of the 24 Treasurer's report. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5-26-09 27 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 2 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a 9:30 timed item as 11 Number 6. It appears to be at or about that time now, so 12 we'll take up Item 6; consider, discuss, and award bid and/or 13 take other action on bids received for replacement of 14 courthouse windows and replacement or renovation of doors and 15 door units in older part of courthouse. As the Court will 16 recall, we went out for bids for replacement of the 17 approximately 77 windows in the older part of the courthouse, 18 the door units to be either renovated or replaced on the east 19 and west end, and also the main entrance on the front door 20 facing Main Street. The bids were received and opened and 21 directed to be reviewed and evaluated by myself, Tim Bollier, 22 the supervisor of Maintenance, and Mr. Peter Lewis, who 23 assisted us with the specifications in preparing the bid 24 package that went out. I have handed out to members of the 25 Court the review by Mr. Lewis to the bids that we received, 5-26-09 28 1 and Mr. Lewis has indicated that the lowest qualified bidder 2 is Dwain Cheeseman, d/b/a Wildwood Designs, and that he noted 3 that none of the bidders submitted a bid bond, as was 4 anticipated by the -- by the bidding documents, but that the 5 Court could, as part of the process, waive that requirement 6 and proceed to award the bid to the lowest qualified bidder. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the question I had was 8 that the -- Foxworth Galbraith did not sign the letter, yet 9 they were the low bidder. Is there a reason? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- if you'll note, there's an 11 e-mail in there in which they acknowledge failing to comply 12 to the bid specifications. It's in the package that I 13 submitted to you. I'm trying to see exactly where that is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 1 of 1. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 1 of 1. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1 of 1. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, there was an acknowledgment 19 that, -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for some reason, they -- they 22 missed the -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the specs. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what did you say 5-26-09 29 1 about -- I think what I heard you say is, like, when we do -- 2 when we do the order, when we vote and do the order, -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that we waive the bid 5 bonds in that? Did you say that? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, actually, I think in awarding 8 the bid, impliedly, we would waive any irregularities in the 9 bid process -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that may have occurred. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that necessarily carries 14 with it. If we don't waive those, at least by implication, I 15 think the other option for us is to just pitch it all and 16 start over. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Start over, yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't want to do that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're not going to waive 21 the requirement to have the bond before they start work. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No, bid bonds only. There will be a 23 payment and performance bond. The specs clearly call for 24 that, and that will be required. The County Attorney -- my 25 thinking is that once the bid is awarded, the County Attorney 5-26-09 30 1 will sit down with the successful bidder, work up whatever 2 mechanics need to be incorporated with the specs into a short 3 memorandum of agreement dealing with the payment schedule and 4 completion of the project. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this will -- and this 6 covers all of the windows in this building, correct? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: It covers all of the windows in the 8 older portion of the courthouse. It also covers -- with two 9 exceptions. There's a little tiny window right back here 10 that used to be in a small bathroom that will not be 11 replaced. It will merely be repointed and re -- and 12 repainted. There's another one upstairs similar to that one, 13 but all the rest of the windows will be replaced. The door 14 units on either end, there's an option. As you see, the net 15 bid would require them to be renovated, as opposed to 16 replaced, which I think is the way we ought to go, because 17 there's some wonderful millwork that can be rehabilitated. 18 Now, the door in the west end will have to be replaced. The 19 rotting on that door is very similar to what we had on the 20 east end by our offices, where it finally was not subject to 21 rehabilitation. But -- that door will have to be replaced, 22 but all of the rest of the unit surrounding it, as well as 23 the one on the east end, would be rehabbed and renovated, and 24 then the same with the front doors. But we'd actually get a 25 credit to the base bid to bring it down to 240,000 and 5-26-09 31 1 change. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Mr. Cheeseman present? 3 MR. CHEESEMAN: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to know what you 5 look like. 6 MR. CHEESEMAN: Here I am. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably be seeing you around. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we know who to get our 9 hands on. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make him stand up so we can 13 really look at him. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Stand up, Mr. Cheeseman. 15 MR. CHEESEMAN: I got a skinny neck. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he's kind of small. 17 Good. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You can grab ahold of him real easy. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. (Laughter.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions from any member 21 of the Court? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- just refresh my memory. 23 We've gone through this, it seems like, several times. The 24 new windows are going to look like this? Or are we changing, 25 getting rid of some of the panels? 5-26-09 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: They will be a fixed window, but 2 they will appear -- the appearance they will give is as close 3 to that as we can get without using that same window frame 4 and going through the chaos of rehabilitating. They will be 5 the lowest maintenance on the outside. They'll be metal 6 clad. The color will match or be very similarly close. 7 Inside, the -- the interior wood portion will be stained to 8 match, as closely as possible, the existing woodwork. But 9 they will appear -- there will not be divided lights -- 10 excuse me. There will not be divided glass. The glass will 11 be solid, as opposed to individual glass panes, because these 12 are going to be energy efficient. They won't be -- they 13 won't be individual glass panes; they'll be solid, but the 14 dividers will be there. They will appear exactly as they 15 appear now. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Or as close to it as possible. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're -- will they open? 19 Can they be opened? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Solid. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No. There will be one of them that 23 will be open -- capable of being opened. It's off the 24 equipment room down in the lower level, where there's some 25 moisture that accumulates because of some drains and some 5-26-09 33 1 equipment down there. It'll be an awning window, which will 2 be capable of being opened for ventilation only. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we award the 4 bid to Wildwood Construction. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wildwood Designs, excuse me. 7 Wildwood Designs, or Dwain Cheeseman, d/b/a Wildwood Designs. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 10 indicated for approval and awarding of the bid. Question or 11 discussion on the notion? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Auditor is certifying 13 funds are available? 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much did we allocate for 17 this project? 18 MS. HARGIS: 350,000 for the courthouse, so -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glad they didn't know that when 20 they bid. All right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 22 the motion? Mr. Lewis, do you have any comments you wish to 23 make at this point? 24 MR. LEWIS: You covered it well, Judge. Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. All in favor of the 5-26-09 34 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you, 6 gentlemen. We appreciate your interest. Let's move to Item 7 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 8 requested budget amendment for capital outlay, building 9 covers for three horse stalls and running water lines to the 10 same, and the estimate was provided by your Maintenance 11 supervisor, Mr. Bollier. 12 MS. WHITT: Good morning. I currently have three 13 horse stalls at the Animal Control facility. Last year, Tim 14 built -- we had a pen built out there so that we could house 15 goats, things of that nature. Then we had the three stalls 16 moved out to the shelter as well. Those three stalls are not 17 able to be used currently because we don't have a cover on 18 them of any sort. We can house these animals at the Ag Barn; 19 however, that has caused some problems in the past, so we'd 20 like to be able to house horses, cattle, anything like that 21 at the shelter. Tim gave me a bid of $2,500. He did a -- a 22 drawing, and I made some copies here if y'all would like to 23 see them. Tim, you might want to -- want to pass those out 24 and kind of explain them. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think if there are animals under 5-26-09 35 1 your control, you need to have them at your place, as opposed 2 to some remote location. 3 MS. WHITT: Absolutely. Absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One of the problems we've had 5 when we have large animals -- like, I think we had a bull not 6 too long ago. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there are a lot of 9 functions that go on out there, and the animals get fed every 10 day, but when people see an animal standing back there that 11 doesn't have any feed in front of them, they think they're 12 starving to death, so they go -- they feed them. They get 13 fed several times, and they don't need that. 14 MS. WHITT: Or they call Rusty complaining that 15 they're not being fed, when they are being fed. And these 16 animals aren't ours -- legally ours. Therefore, if someone 17 goes and feeds -- if Mr. Jones' horse gets out and someone 18 goes and feeds him the wrong feed, or too much, that horse 19 can get sick; it can founder. There's numerous things that 20 can happen. Then we're -- we're liable. Whereas if we kept 21 them at the shelter, out of the public view, we can avoid 22 that -- that problem. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good project. Reasonable. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's reasonable. And, you 25 know, it's not much money, and she has the money in her 5-26-09 36 1 budget if we do it this year, and it will be something she 2 doesn't have to budget for next year. And I think her 3 budget's going to come in -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the agenda 5 item. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 9 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 10 hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 15 Item 8. Consider, discuss -- 16 MS. WHITT: Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, and approve 18 resolution for the submission by the Kerr County Juvenile 19 Board for American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, 20 Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Formula Grant 21 Program Funding for FY 2009-2010 to the Office of the 22 Governor, Criminal Justice Division. Purpose of the grant is 23 to funds vehicles and radios. We're back again, Mr. Davis. 24 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. I tried to make this as long 25 as I possibly could. (Laughter.) It uses many words, 5-26-09 37 1 getting bang for my buck. Traditionally -- previously, 2 rather, we came up here with the Sheriff, and in regards to 3 an application to AACOG for stimulus money, is basically the 4 term that's being used. At that time, we were told by AACOG 5 that we needed to apply jointly. Only one application per 6 county, basically, per government entity. The day after -- 7 either the day of or the day after we were in front of you, 8 AACOG came in and said, no, the Juvenile Board can split off 9 and do their own thing and apply separately. This -- that's 10 what this separation is. The Juvenile Board would apply and 11 the Sheriff's welcome to apply. That way we get two bites of 12 the apple, a smaller amount of money as opposed to a larger 13 amount of money and all or nothing. There is no other 14 changes to the application, no changes to anything. There's 15 no matching requirement for the County, or for the Juvenile 16 Board, for that matter. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AACOG just wants to make 18 sure you read the small print at the bottom of the page. 19 MR. DAVIS: They're going to change it three times, 20 yes, sir. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, they can change it. 22 MR. DAVIS: That's exactly right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5-26-09 38 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 7 Mr. Davis. 8 MR. DAVIS: Thank you all. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 9; consider, 10 discuss, and take appropriate action regarding submission of 11 the grant application for American Recovery and Reinvestment 12 Act of 2009, Edwards Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance 13 Formula Grant Program for 2009-2010, and adopt resolution. 14 Sheriff? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same song, second verse. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They did change -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only other thing on 21 this one is, when we thought we were going to do it by 22 ourselves, then we had one of the District Attorneys say 23 that, no, they also had applied, and we didn't -- we weren't 24 even aware that they were applying for software equipment 25 through the same grant. I didn't realize the D.A. could do 5-26-09 39 1 that, but AACOG says yes, they can, but it needs to be a 2 joint resolution with ours. So, that's why this one is for 3 the Sheriff's Office and the 198th District Attorney's 4 office. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 198th District what? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Attorney's office. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Attorney. Do we see that in 8 here? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't see it. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In the resolution, the third 12 line, where it says Kerr County Sheriff's Department and the 13 198th Judicial District Attorney's office. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't guess I have the 15 resolution. I move for approval. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you not have it, Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we already had a motion and 18 a second. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know it. I just thought 20 -- I was just trying to get it done. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Any further question or 22 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5-26-09 40 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move to 3 Item 10, a presentation from Charles Ridgeway on the R.C. 4 McBride/Phillips 66 Oil Company fuel card. Commissioner 5 Oehler? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Charles called me last 7 week, after we had heard the presentation by the fuel card 8 group or whoever that was at the previous meeting, and said 9 they would like to make a presentation of what they could do 10 for us, and so I put it on the agenda, and Charles is here to 11 enlighten us. 12 MR. RIDGEWAY: Yes. Gentlemen, thank you for this 13 opportunity. And I -- I am not opposed to what you're doing. 14 I commend you for trying to get the fuel as cheap as you 15 possibly can, and I feel like that we're in a position that 16 we can help you on that. There's two locations in town, R.C. 17 McBride Oil Company and Maxey Oil, that have a card-lock 18 system. The disadvantage to our system, we have our own 19 cards, and you would not be able to use these outside the 20 county. And I suppose that's one of the reasons for 21 considering this fleet card, is that these deputies travel. 22 They would be able to use that in other locations. I'm not 23 aware of a unit that has the fleet card in Kerrville, but I 24 -- I've been trying to research this and determine that at 25 this point. 5-26-09 41 1 But we have the capability at our location to 2 provide all the products that the county uses. We bid on the 3 Road and Bridge fuel and provide them with three products, 4 which includes off-road diesel that they use in their 5 off-road equipment. This is not available at all locations, 6 and there's some paperwork required. The off-road diesel, 7 the state requirements complicates the -- the issue in that 8 you have to have an end user number, which the County has, 9 that exempts you on all taxes. You're exempt on all federal 10 taxes -- or federal taxes on all other products, but you pay 11 the state tax on the gasoline and the on-road fuel. There 12 are possibly some locations where this fleet card is used 13 that would have -- I'm not aware of any in Kerrville, but 14 anyway, I'm -- as I said, I'm not opposed to what you're 15 attempting to -- wanting to do here, and to cut the cost of 16 fuel. 17 In our location, we bring the fuel directly to our 18 yard and have the capability, through our card system, to 19 dispense the fuel to your units, which eliminates any 20 middleman. If you go through a local station that's hooked 21 up with this fleet card, you have the -- the fleet card 22 people, as well as the local unit supplying the fuel, and so 23 I feel like that we'd be in a position to offer a better 24 price as to... Maxey would be capable of doing the same 25 thing. And my -- one of my concerns is if we can compete, I 5-26-09 42 1 would like to see this stay in the county. And we're told -- 2 all of our employees live in the county. Maxey has their 3 offices in Uvalde, but their yard and their employees there 4 are locally -- local people as well. But I feel like we 5 are -- represent the county more than they do. But I'm not 6 knocking Maxey whatsoever, because you still need to be 7 concerned about the cost of the fuel. 8 We currently bid on the county Road and Bridge 9 fuel, and quite often get that bid. It's difficult to -- to 10 do this when you're going through other units, such as Town 11 and Country or somebody like that locally, which do not have 12 the capability of having a local yard where they eliminate 13 the middleman. And so I would like for us to be able to be 14 involved in this -- the discussion, and have an opportunity 15 to bid on this. And if there's any way that we can assist 16 you in determining what you might want to do -- the cheapest 17 way for you to get the fuel would be to have your own tanks, 18 like Road and Bridge has. But you'd need to be able to get 19 transport drops, which would require larger tanks than they 20 have. And you could -- when you do transport drops for local 21 contractors -- and we used to do the City and the -- the 22 school system before they got rid of their tanks. You can -- 23 you can eliminate a lot of the mark-up, 'cause there's no -- 24 not a lot of handling of the fuel. You go directly to the 25 tanks with a transport load. 5-26-09 43 1 But I don't know if the County wants to get 2 involved in having 10,000-gallon tanks in a yard someplace. 3 That gets complicated as well, and you involve the T.C.E.Q. 4 The County yard has 1,000-gallon tanks. And you have to have 5 over 1,100-gallon tanks before you get into the strict 6 regulation of T.C.E.Q. All you're required to have there is 7 a berm to hold the maximum capacity of any one of the tanks 8 if it's ruptured, which you have. If you have a 9 10,000-gallon tank, you would have to have the same kind of 10 containment, and at this -- at this point in time, it is 11 difficult to have above-ground tanks with all the protection, 12 the spill and overfill protection required by the State, to 13 have that with an overhead, above-ground tank. So, it ends 14 up being less expensive to go with underground tanks. And, 15 of course, you fall under the T.C.E.Q.'s requirements there. 16 But my -- my interest is for us to -- to be able to 17 assist you in any way we can as a local business, to help you 18 get fuel the cheapest possible way. And so we would like -- 19 I've already talked to Rusty about the possibility of bidding 20 on the -- on the Sheriff's Department fuel, which they, I 21 think, currently have a contract with Maxey. And we're 22 capable of having the same type -- type system. However, if 23 you go to this other system, I presume that opportunity would 24 not exist to -- to bid on that. We would like to have that 25 opportunity. And I just wanted to present to you that we are 5-26-09 44 1 capable of taking care of your needs. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here, 3 Mr. Ridgeway. Obviously, we're concerned about, number one, 4 the lowest cost to the taxpayers, as I'm sure you're 5 concerned, because you're one of those taxpayers. 6 MR. RIDGEWAY: Absolutely. Absolutely. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And your employer is also. And, 8 secondly, we need to look at what capability we need, and 9 then, of course, we got the liability aspects as concerns if 10 we're going to have our own fuel storage. I noticed -- when 11 you were speaking about something over 1,100 gallons, I 12 noticed Mr. Odom shaking his head negatively back there. I 13 think he got out of that drill 'cause he didn't like being 14 there. And we've just got to make the best selection we can. 15 But, obviously, we're concerned about wanting to do business 16 locally if we can, if it is competitive and suits our needs. 17 MR. RIDGEWAY: Absolutely. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If you would provide us with, if 19 nothing more, a generalization of -- of what your service 20 capabilities are? 21 MR. RIDGEWAY: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And what your pricing policy would 23 be under those capabilities, to allow us to evaluate that 24 side-by-side with other possible vendors. 25 MR. RIDGEWAY: Certainly. 5-26-09 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We'd really appreciate it. 2 MR. RIDGEWAY: All right, sir. I'd be happy to. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here, and we 4 appreciate the interest. 5 MR. RIDGEWAY: Well, I appreciate the opportunity. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 7 further questions for Mr. Ridgeway? 8 MR. RIDGEWAY: Thank you very much. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I only wanted to request one 12 thing, if they could give us their -- what it would have cost 13 us for the month of April, the per-gallon. I'd like to have 14 just a comparative, compared to the other ones that we looked 15 at. If they could provide that to me? 16 MR. RIDGEWAY: Yes. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What our cost would have been 18 at the right price, and what you had. 19 MR. RIDGEWAY: Well, I could. I'd like to meet 20 with you and see -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fine. 22 MR. RIDGEWAY: -- what you can provide for me. And 23 I'd certainly do that for you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your willingness to do 25 that, Mr. Ridgeway. Thank you. 5-26-09 46 1 MR. RIDGEWAY: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, it appears, or seems to 3 me that -- I know Road and Bridge does theirs, I guess, 4 annually, as I recall, as part of their other pricing. 5 MR. RIDGEWAY: Sir? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm talking to Leonard. Annual 7 bids on that, I think? 8 MR. RIDGEWAY: No, it's per load. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Per load. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you do it, Rusty? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They haven't bid in a while, 12 okay? Normally they bid for, like, three- to five-year 13 periods, but it has not been bid, and it either needs to be 14 bid this year or we're going to have to look at something 15 else. The biggest difference they're going to have, as he 16 admits, is the -- and I met with the other gentleman again 17 last week that had given y'all a presentation -- is when we 18 leave town, which is a whole lot of the Sheriff's Office gas; 19 it's over -- between 300 and 400 gallons a month is purchased 20 outside of Kerrville. And that's where he's going to have a 21 hard time, because of the price difference, paying retail for 22 it, minus some -- some tax. But that's where it makes a big 23 difference. And the other company is part of the H.G.A.C. 24 cooperative purchasing, so it -- I don't believe we would 25 have to bid that. So, we're going to have to look at it. 5-26-09 47 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What other departments -- I 2 mean, you and Road and Bridge are basically our only two big 3 users. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Animal Control. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Animal Control. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Animal Control, Environmental 7 Health. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the constables. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, constables use a bunch. 10 MS. HYDE: Juvenile Detention. 11 MR. BOLLIER: We do it, but we don't use a whole 12 lot of gas, either. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems that -- I mean, and 14 I'm kind of thinking, it seems that we probably need to 15 consolidate all our purchases as much as we can and get the 16 best price. I mean, it's not a whole lot of -- some of those 17 smaller departments may not use as much, but I think 18 county-wide -- and I think possibly the Sheriff and Road and 19 Bridge, I would let them do their own thing, because they are 20 the biggest fuel users and already have systems in place. 21 But it seems for the rest of the county, it may be a 22 worthwhile thing to look at that, because I bet it totals up 23 to quite a bit of fuel in those other departments, and I 24 don't know how we're buying it now. Tim, what are you doing 25 right now, just going to buy it? 5-26-09 48 1 MR. BOLLIER: No, I go over to Maxey over here 2 on -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're on the same one? 4 MR. BOLLIER: And then we'll go out to Road and 5 Bridge and get some of their fuel. 6 MS. HARGIS: The first year I was here, we got them 7 all to use the same -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're all on Maxey right 9 now? 10 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to see it on an 12 annual basis, anyway. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of them are on Maxey. 14 City of Kerrville's on Maxey. One thing about it, in 15 visiting with the other vendor that would like to -- if the 16 County has one contract, like if I decide the Sheriff's 17 Office needed to go to it, and after it's approved by the 18 Court, then that contract covers the entire county, and so 19 under that, everybody that's -- that's a member of the county 20 would also be able to purchase on this one contract. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under this contract, Sheriff, 22 would you have to, or you can? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You can. I don't have to, no. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just have the opportunity 25 to do it? 5-26-09 49 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Just 'cause you have a 2 contract doesn't lock you in, that that's the only place you 3 can do it. I just have that opportunity. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be a -- still 5 worthwhile to make sure that, at least on an annual basis, we 6 bid the -- the contract currently with Maxey, to give McBride 7 an opportunity. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does need to be done if we 9 stay that way. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that item, 12 gentlemen? Let's move on to the next item; to consider, 13 discuss, take appropriate action on placing two porta-potties 14 at Ingram Lake. It's getting to be summertime, isn't it, 15 Commissioner? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this has always been 17 kind of a sore spot with the Court, I think, and -- but I do 18 believe that we are, in some ways -- in most ways, we are 19 needing to protect the river as much as possible. 20 Especially -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nice way to put it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- during the summer months. 23 And what happened several years ago, the complex at the Dam 24 Store changed ownership, and it was told to us to get the 25 porta-potties off that property because the new owner didn't 5-26-09 50 1 want them on there. Well, it wasn't the owner is the one 2 that said that; it was the manager of the property at the 3 time, and the manager now has changed. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Moved on. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they would like to have 6 that opportunity to have those -- those porta-potties put 7 back to allow people a place to go, because the dam complex 8 doesn't have enough bathrooms to accommodate all the people 9 that go out there. And -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He doesn't have to cuss. 11 Dam complex, across from the damn river. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we place two 13 porta-potties at Ingram Dam -- Ingram Lake from henceforth 14 till after Labor Day. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that we pay for it out of 17 the Parks money. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably get two bids. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where do they go? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They go right across the road 22 from the store. It's -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- right under that big oak 25 tree. 5-26-09 51 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a monthly fee, change 2 them out at as they need to be? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. And I feel like that we 4 need to get -- I will -- or whoever will get a bid from the 5 local people so that it's fair, so that no one can say -- can 6 say, "Well, you just picked the other guy, didn't give me an 7 opportunity to bid." 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the monthly fee? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do not know. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About $100 a month, generally, 11 per potty. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's not a whole lot of 13 money, but I think it's important that we do it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. So, they go across 15 the damn road from the dam complex? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Something like that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Over by the dam complex at 18 the damn river. I feel better. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I knew you would if 20 you needed to stop by and use one of these. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No charge? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Amongst all that confusion, we do 23 have a motion and a second. Any question or discussion on 24 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 5-26-09 52 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's move to 5 Item 12; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to review 6 and approve concept plan for Old River Road R.V. Resort. 7 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: There's lots of R's in there, isn't 9 there? 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Precinct 2. 12 MR. ODOM: In Precinct 2. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Down the damn road? 14 MR. ODOM: Mr. Colvin is the owner of this 101-acre 15 piece of land. Mr. Colvin is proposing a 280-lot R.V. resort 16 which runs along the Center Point River Road. Proposed site 17 falls within the City of Kerrville's ETJ and is located in a 18 high-density area. The future development will be a 19 commercial development which may or may not require some 20 variances. Mr. Spraggins from Vordenbaum Engineering and 21 Dick Colvin, the developer, are here to present their R.V. 22 resort. I've given you that information, as well as the 23 letter from Vordenbaum, how we propose to go about doing 24 this. But this is a concept, and I guess one of the 25 questions I have, you know, since they are in the ETJ, would 5-26-09 53 1 the City be involved in this? Or is it going to be totally 2 a Kerr County project? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it depends a little 4 bit -- I'm thinking about this; I met with Mr. Colvin a week 5 or so ago -- exactly how he's structuring it as to what rules 6 he's under. I don't know what city rules he may be under. 7 If it's purely subdivision rules, my opinion is -- and I told 8 him this -- that he's under both the city rules and the 9 county rules still, without -- in absence of an agreement. 10 But after I started thinking about it a little bit more, and 11 I tried to remember what we talked about, and it depends a 12 little bit as to what kind of development it is and what the 13 -- you know, whether it's a true subdivision or not. I 14 remember hearing the word "condominiums" from Mr. Colvin, and 15 that kind of changes things a little bit. This also could be 16 a manufactured rental home, so it kind of depends how it's -- 17 even though they're R.V.'s, it could qualify under that rule. 18 So, anyway, it's kind of really waiting for him to get up, or 19 whoever's going to kind of explain exactly how the ownership 20 and the -- what's going to happen with the property, and then 21 determine what set of rules he's under. And whether he's 22 under city rules, I don't know that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just going to ask the 24 question. Would you have any knowledge or understanding as 25 to whether or not the city's rules even cover such a proposed 5-26-09 54 1 development as this? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I mean, 3 that's -- again, it goes back to -- a little bit as to -- I 4 think, really, Mr. Colvin needs to kind of answer the 5 question as to, is he selling lots? Or is he -- is it 6 condominiums? Because I heard both words, I remember. 7 MR. ODOM: Both ways. I'll let Mr. Colvin talk to 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have one question to 10 Mr. Odom before he sits down. In your covering memo to the 11 Court, Leonard, you talked about it being Kerrville's ETJ and 12 located in a high-density area. 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How did you come up with 15 that -- 16 MR. ODOM: That's in Kerrville's ETJ, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the ETJ automatically. 18 MR. ODOM: So it's a high-density area. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 MR. ODOM: The reason I'm getting that is the 21 lowest you could have is one-quarter acre lots. Now, my 22 understanding from previous discussions was about 6,000 23 square feet for a lot, something I scaled off, looking at it, 24 so that's even less. A quarter of an acre is 10,000 square 25 feet, so there would have to be a variance in that, just 5-26-09 55 1 under our rules. But the -- my understanding is he was going 2 to sell some or all of them, and that causes platting. 3 That's a question I have. Which way do we go? Does it go to 4 the City? Stay with us? A variance for the lot sizes, as 5 long as the drainage and all can be developed, and I'm sure 6 that it can. As far as detention, it's going to be one way 7 toward the river. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MR. ODOM: So, I hope I answered -- but that -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 11 MR. ODOM: That would be the criteria you need to 12 look at for a variance. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, just this last week 14 I had a conversation with the City, and something similar to 15 this, and they says to me -- and it's really kind of simple. 16 If it's platting or a big sign, they deal with it. 17 MR. ODOM: Platting or a big signing? What is 18 that? I'm sorry. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big signs. A big sign. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like Junior Fritz has. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Billboards? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know what a big sign 23 is? 24 MR. ODOM: No. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Billboards. 5-26-09 56 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably advertisement. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sign. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City has control over signs. 4 MR. ODOM: Over signage, okay. All right. Through 5 their -- okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least they think they do. 7 MR. ODOM: Well, looks like it's going to be a 8 platting situation. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so I'd be willing to bet 10 you they're going to want in on it, just going by what they 11 told me. 12 MR. ODOM: I sort of think that you're probably 13 right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see how it shakes 15 out. 16 MR. ODOM: Mr. Colvin, I'll turn it over to you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, Dick, this is 18 one of the cutest things I've seen in a long time. I really 19 like this. I do. Great idea. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Precinct 2, also. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, slipped it out of 22 there. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think some of the -- some 24 of this also keys onto what kind of sewer you have available. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it does. 5-26-09 57 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you put in a treatment 2 plant, you can do things you can't do on septic. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this -- before you get 5 started, Mr. Colvin, the quarter-acre lot size is predicated 6 on groundwater, and my understanding is you're using surface 7 water for your water source, and that changes our lot size, I 8 believe. I'm looking at our rules. Anyway, go ahead. 9 MR. COLVIN: Good morning. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 11 MR. COLVIN: Your Honor, Commissioners, I'm Dick 12 Colvin. I own some land across from the Kerr County Airport 13 along the river, and we're prepared and are interested in 14 dedicating a little over 100 acres of it to the Old River 15 Road R.V. Resort. Many of the attributes about the park are 16 in bullet point form that I want to share with you, but I 17 think we might be getting the cart just a little bit in front 18 of the horse here, and I want to digress a bit for a moment. 19 Bruce, would you mind sharing one of these? Some pictures 20 for you to look at so you can see the market we're trying to 21 identify. In my early discussions -- and Kevin Spraggins, 22 our engineer, is here; correct me if I'm wrong -- that we had 23 with many of you and the County Attorney, Mr. Emerson, we 24 were led to believe, and still do believe, that there is not 25 an existing interlocal agreement between the City and the 5-26-09 58 1 County for a development like this. We are also -- and with 2 that in mind, it falls -- we're led to believe it falls back 3 under the County. And, Rex, I'd love for you to come bail me 4 out on this, if you -- 5 MR. EMERSON: You're doing good. 6 MR. COLVIN: Oh, yeah, hang me out to dry. Thank 7 you. (Laughter.) And that because of the type of 8 development that it is, the City's ordinances don't cover it, 9 and therefore it would fall back to the County as well. 10 Having said all that, from a -- from a wastewater standpoint, 11 from a water supply standpoint, I own a number of -- of 12 adjudicated water rights. They are classified as municipal, 13 industrial, and agricultural, and we're prepared to dedicate 14 the appropriate number of acre feet of our permit -- 15 permitted water rights to the facility -- to the community. 16 The wastewater will be dealt with in a private, on-site, 17 T.C.E.Q./County-regulated wastewater facility, and the 18 treated effluent will be distributed through one of my center 19 pivot irrigation systems on land that we own, so I think we 20 can deal with that without any difficulty at all. And Kevin 21 perhaps will have more to say on that than I do. 22 As -- as has already been indicated to you, it is 23 intended to be a 280 individual site condominium type R.V. 24 community. It'll be governed by a very carefully designed 25 set of codes, covenants, and restrictions. I borrowed a set. 5-26-09 59 1 We've not had time to sanitize them. Happy for you guys to 2 thumb through this if you'd like. These things are quite 3 carefully thought out. As these facilities come online, the 4 intention is to maintain the highest quality of subdivision 5 creation that we can over a perpetual period of time. We're 6 designing the R.V. resort to cater to the high end of the 7 R.V. industry; i.e., motor coaches and late-model fifth wheel 8 type pull-behind coaches. And there's some pictures in there 9 that may be somewhere between Bruce and -- and Buster that 10 y'all might want to take a look at. 11 The entrance to the community will be off of 12 Highway 27, which unfortunately doesn't show on that site 13 plan, but it's in the very top of the screen there. It'll be 14 a -- I own a 60-foot-wide right-of-way through there, and 15 there would be a 30-foot-wide private entrance. We'll have 16 25-foot-wide interval roadways in the community. The 17 community will either be asphalted or a naturally paved kind 18 of roadway with concrete curbing. As I mentioned, all of the 19 roadways will be privately owned and maintained by the 20 resort's maintenance staff through the homeowners' 21 association. There will be no County-maintained roadways, or 22 at least our intention is to not ask you to maintain them. 23 We prefer it to do it ourselves. We've talked about our 24 community water and sanitary sewer system. Lots will be sold 25 fee simple, and each lot will have property taxes tied to it. 5-26-09 60 1 And to give you an idea, we believe that we're going to 2 create a taxable value of around $35 million. If the 3 community were just another R.V. campground rental park, it 4 would only create about $7 million in value. So, there's 5 quite an incentive to do these condominium-type facilities. 6 In addition, owners typically will build a casita 7 on their property, which will be like a single bedroom, 8 bathroom, indoor/outdoor kitchen, patio area that typically 9 would run about $75,000 or more, to create additional taxable 10 value. We've all known about R.V. parks for many years. 11 We've done a rather extensive feasibility study on this, and 12 on not only this industry, but specifically to Kerr County, 13 and I'm happy to share any of this with you that you'd like 14 to look at. I would say that there are over 20,000 R.V. 15 parks in the country, and there are only 1,100 of them that 16 can cater to what we would call -- or what we would refer to 17 as these big rig types of facilities. Baby boomers are 18 coming online today, and there's like 11,000 of them per day. 19 The average age of an R.V. owner today is down to 47, 48, and 20 growing younger. By the way, that's getting younger every 21 day too, far as I'm concerned. 22 I could do a lot better if I had a teleprompter. 23 At any rate, there are not enough parks. There's only one or 24 two others in Texas; the lion's share of them are in Florida 25 and California. And there appears to be a very strong demand 5-26-09 61 1 and a very healthy future for a park of this type. We'll -- 2 we'll have the resort located within a half a mile of 3 Guadalupe River frontage. We'll begin at Brinks Crossing, 4 which is the southeastern-most line of my property out there, 5 and it'll continue up river on the north side of the -- of 6 the Guadalupe River. We'll have a boat dock, river 7 pavilions, we'll have canoeing and kayaking on the river, 8 fishing as well. We intend to build a 7,000 square foot 9 clubhouse with restaurant, conference room, office business 10 centers, a 2,400 square foot office at the entrance of the 11 community. We'll have seven strategically located 12 full-service bathhouses complete with laundry facilities, two 13 indoor/outdoor swimming pools strategically located. 14 Stormwater retention is a big issue for us. 15 We'll have a very nice, deep stormwater retention 16 complete with fountain gardens and stocked for community 17 fishing. There will be a number of picnic and barbecue 18 areas, gazebos. We'll build bocce and shuffleboard courts. 19 I have no idea how to play bocce, but I know it's a very 20 popular sport. Tennis courts, putting greens, private hiking 21 trails and treed areas. And the focus will be on a lot of 22 green space. So, it's not really a high density park. It's 23 quite possible that we will need some variances. We hope 24 we'll have your support. I'm going to ask Kevin to be 25 available to answer any technical questions that you might 5-26-09 62 1 have. And this issue of where it falls, I just need some -- 2 some leadership on. Help me. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dick, the access road, it comes 4 down the -- the far side of the Naylor property? 5 MR. COLVIN: Right, the far west side. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the west side, coming down 7 the west side, goes along the back of it? 8 MR. COLVIN: In between the west side of -- of 9 their property and the east side of the business park. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. A couple of general 11 comments. I mean, I think there's -- the only variance that 12 I see would be required is going to be on roads. 13 MR. COLVIN: Sidewalks. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What? 15 MR. COLVIN: Sidewalks, possibly. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we don't require 17 sidewalks. 18 MR. COLVIN: Thank you. I really don't -- I really 19 don't -- I think that the world knows I don't want to build 20 another sidewalk. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a city phenomenon. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, the lot size, 23 our rules clearly allow us to go in a development like this, 24 and it's not really a variance. It's kind of working with 25 the developer. You're using surface water as your water 5-26-09 63 1 source? 2 MR. COLVIN: Our primary water source. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Primary water source. 4 MR. COLVIN: Primary water source we'll be using. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That gets -- that knocks all 6 water availability out, so that gets rid of the lot size -- 7 minimum lot size and all that. So, there's -- you know, I 8 don't think there's any variances required other than on 9 the -- what I see on roads, preliminarily looking at it. 10 Whether it goes with -- I do believe that it's under -- the 11 City has jurisdiction over this too, and the County clearly 12 does. But being in the ETJ, I think their rules apply. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they have rules. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they have rules; we just 15 don't have joint rules. But I think that it's a -- clearly, 16 the intent of state law right now is that there is -- the 17 developers are supposed to work with one entity, and that is 18 somewhat of a -- I mean, a project that clearly does not make 19 sense for anyone to have to work with both simultaneously, 20 and a decision needs to be made between the City and the 21 County as to who's going to be the primary jurisdiction over 22 it. In my mind, it's -- you know, I have no problem with it 23 being the County. 24 MR. COLVIN: In my mind, what? I'm sorry. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It being the County that you 5-26-09 64 1 work with. But I think the City is going to have some 2 interest in it. That's just my feeling. 3 MR. COLVIN: Our preference would be to stay in the 4 county. We understand the interlocal agreement is not in 5 place; it's expired, so we really have nowhere to turn but to 6 the County. It's the logical path, and we prefer to do it 7 that way. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but the City's rules 9 also do apply in the ETJ currently, so that's what I'm 10 saying. Just because the agreement is not in place -- it's 11 kind of the worst of both scenarios that you have to comply 12 with both. But I think that, you know, to me, it makes sense 13 to -- looking back at Len back there, or maybe Rex, that 14 before you get too much further into it, that a decision is 15 made between the City and the County as to whose rules you're 16 going to have to comply with. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, my preference would 18 be that the County be the principal reviewer of this project. 19 That would be my preference. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with that. I 21 think it's a great project. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would think the same thing. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that it's -- I 24 mean, we have -- the area that I would really want City input 25 is going to be on fire, because their vehicles would be -- 5-26-09 65 1 you know, certainly need to -- turning radius and all that 2 kind of stuff that they require for fire; that we don't 3 really get involved with that. But, anyway, that's kind of 4 my thought. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Colvin, I'm excited about your 6 concept. The individual ownership of lots as opposed to 7 leasing or rental that's been the primary business model 8 heretofore, I think it's shown to be very well accepted and 9 very, very successful in the high-end area in resort areas in 10 Florida, California, Arizona, some of the those locations. 11 It appears to me you've -- you've got all the amenities that 12 people that can afford that lifestyle want, and are willing 13 to pay for. And I -- I think Commissioner Letz' comments -- 14 or admonitions, probably, more than comments, that you need 15 to be sure you really know who's going to be involved from a 16 regulatory standpoint, urge you to work with that. We'd be 17 -- we'd be happy to be the lead or the only, but -- but we're 18 not the only ones that are involved in this game. 19 MR. COLVIN: We -- as you know, we came here 20 because we were led to believe that this was the right spot 21 to start. And -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. It's the 23 right place to start. It just may not be the only spot. 24 MR. COLVIN: Might not be where the finish line is? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I like it. I like it. 5-26-09 66 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I believe I would keep 2 sidewalks in the back of my mind somewhere, though. 3 (Laughter.) 4 MR. COLVIN: Oh, Buster, don't do that to me. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not from this room. 6 MR. COLVIN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 8 MR. COLVIN: So, what would you all prefer that we 9 do as far as our next step goes? May we -- we're here to 10 seek conceptual approval, obviously, and then take it to the 11 next step. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the Court, in the past, 13 conceptually has just been a matter of looking at what's 14 being proposed. If there are any serious objections to the 15 concept of the plan, we voice those, and then kind of send 16 you on your way and let you move forward with your project. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's basically how we've 19 done it, Dick. If we have any concerns, we would voice them. 20 Now, far as I'm concerned, conceptually, it's good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I haven't heard a negative word, 22 other than you need to be checking down the street about 23 seeing what degree of authority is going to be exercised, if 24 any. Hopefully, you'll be back here and say they don't want 25 to be involved, and we'll move this thing forward for you. 5-26-09 67 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Colvin, what may be an 2 appropriate course of action for you -- and I'd be glad to 3 meet -- and I'm sure Commissioner Williams; it's in his 4 precinct, that maybe the two of us, you, and Len Odom can 5 meet with the City Manager and/or Kevin Coleman and try to 6 resolve that. I think it's going to take City Council action 7 to -- to not have it fully under City as well as under 8 County, and I think that if we can work with them, and 9 they're part of the -- in the process, that seems like the 10 course of action. That makes the most sense at this point, 11 as long as the City has input into the process. Hopefully, 12 they'll go along with letting the County be the lead on this, 13 but I think it's going to take City Council action for the 14 City to formally say that at the present time. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be happy to do that. 16 MR. COLVIN: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might help some. 18 MR. COLVIN: All right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might not. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a place to start. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May hinder it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We hope it helps. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a place to start. 24 MR. COLVIN: Are there any other questions that you 25 all had of me, or of our engineer? 5-26-09 68 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other issue, I see a little 2 bit of drainage, but you're working -- worked all those out, 3 I guess, with the retention ponds. And, I mean, that's 4 another -- I mean, this kind of a density development that I 5 see that there are -- may be some issues. But -- 6 MR. SPRAGGINS: We initially met with Mr. Odom and 7 we went over the street sizes with him as far as 30 and 25. 8 And then, also, knowing that we have to do retention, and 9 that's one reason we put together that letter, to let 10 everybody know the processes that we're going to go through. 11 You know, we have some floodplain we have to deal with, but 12 all that will be studied and taken care of. And so our next 13 step, per that letter, is to bring y'all the preliminary 14 plat. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I will -- and the sewerage 16 facility is going to be -- basically, that piece of the 17 puzzle will be done by T.C.E.Q. 18 MR. SPRAGGINS: Right, both water and sewer will be 19 by T.C.E.Q. Now, the sewer, that will end up being like a 20 regular sewer system; then it gets pumped to the west where 21 his fields are and distributed that way. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you thought about trying 23 to tie into a city system? 24 MR. SPRAGGINS: Well, any -- any time you do it, 25 you got to -- you got get lift stations involved, and you're 5-26-09 69 1 pumping uphill, and so -- 2 MR. COLVIN: And annexation. 3 MR. SPRAGGINS: Unless you can come up with an 4 agreement. So, he's got the land out there to do it, so he 5 would like to stand alone. So -- 6 MR. COLVIN: We prefer it to remain in the county 7 if at all possible. 8 MR. SPRAGGINS: You know, I mean, it's not -- he's 9 got the facilities out there to make it happen, and we've 10 already talked to Mr. Odom about the water -- about the 11 roads, and so we were, you know, trying to make this work. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many feet are you from a 13 city sewage connection? 14 MR. SPRAGGINS: I think about 2,000. 15 MR. COLVIN: Just at the end of Phase 1 of the 16 business park, which will put it at half mile or more. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason I say that, -- 18 MR. COLVIN: Or almost a mile. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- my understanding is that 20 there's kind of -- Kevin Coleman and the City will require 21 you to tie into a city system if you're within 2,000 feet of 22 a connection. 23 MR. COLVIN: We're not. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's a key number as to 25 where you -- 5-26-09 70 1 MR. COLVIN: We're not. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're beyond that. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're beyond that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're planning to treat 5 the effluent and spray it back on your -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On the fields or whatever. 7 MR. COLVIN: Grass. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grass. And I think that's 9 terrific and fantastic. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Absolutely wonderful. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 MR. COLVIN: It minimizes the amount of water I 13 would have to take out of the river to otherwise -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Irrigate. 15 MR. COLVIN: -- irrigate our grass. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dick, how are you going to 18 handle water purification on the river? 19 MR. COLVIN: I'm sure that Kevin and T.C.E.Q. will 20 know how to do that. I do not. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure somebody knows how 22 to do that. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Will require it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No question there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Odom, did you have some comments 5-26-09 71 1 here? 2 MR. ODOM: One thing is that they will have to 3 contact Mike Coward over there at TexDOT because of 4 egress/ingress on 27. 5 MR. COLVIN: Right. 6 MR. ODOM: So that might be something else they 7 need to look at with that traffic flow and what you've got 8 going in and out. But that is something they will have to 9 work with, too. But I don't -- 10 MR. COLVIN: And there's a front door/back door 11 also. There's -- in addition to the Highway 27, we have the 12 back gate. 13 MR. ODOM: Right. 14 MR. COLVIN: Which could take you across the river 15 and out towards 173 or down river to Sutherland Road. 16 MR. ODOM: It would be nice if we had that bridge 17 across Brinks Crossing right there, wouldn't it? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard? Leonard, in your 19 mind, is this -- I mean, do you concur with what we're 20 talking about, the County being the lead on this? 21 MR. ODOM: Being relieved of it? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, being the lead. 23 MR. ODOM: Well, sir, direct me which way you wish 24 to go. I all I need is -- the way we feel, that is the 25 proper way to go. I do think that we need to talk to the 5-26-09 72 1 City and inform them that it is. Which way do we go? 2 Because I have some others that are coming in Mr. Oehler's -- 3 I have a question about two I just got today. So, if it's 4 platting, it's in there. Who does it? That's all I need to 5 know. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think for the time being, 7 they need to be handled case-by-case, and a determination 8 made by the City. And I will visit with Kevin, and -- 9 MR. ODOM: Sure, I'll be more than happy to meet 10 with him. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- tell him this is the 12 approach that the City's -- excuse me, the way the County's 13 looking at it right now, and in the interim, is that okay. 14 We can all sit down for each one and decide who's going to be 15 lead. 16 MR. ODOM: They just need a direction. We just 17 need to try to give it to them. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Colvin. We 20 appreciate it. 21 MR. COLVIN: Thank you, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deal with Commissioner 23 Williams, and -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to Item 13; consider, 25 discuss, and take appropriate action to join the National 5-26-09 73 1 Flood Insurance Program Community Rating System to provide 2 flood insurance policyholders a discount on annual premiums. 3 Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. The 5 other day, when John Hewitt and I were down at Camp Verde 6 taking a look at the floodplain issues, he mentioned this to 7 me, and it is an opportunity to join the National Flood 8 Insurance Community Rating System. And as a result of that, 9 any policyholders in Kerr County without flood insurance 10 could benefit from a discount on annual premiums. I'd like 11 to ask John to come to the podium and give you a little bit 12 better explanation of what it's all about and how simple it 13 is for us to take part in it. 14 MR. HEWITT: Good morning. A few years back, FEMA 15 developed this program to award communities that exceeded 16 the -- the requirements of National Flood Insurance Program. 17 What they do is, they go back and audit the last five years 18 of permits. And, really, Len and Kelly have done all the 19 hard work already. So, what -- what FEMA would come in and 20 do is they'd schedule a week of meetings with a local 21 floodplain administrators; they'd come in. They would want 22 to meet with the Commissioners Court one day, and they've 23 actually scheduled -- they tentatively have scheduled that in 24 September; that they would come in, visit with you for an 25 hour or so, tell you what they're going to do, go and drive 5-26-09 74 1 the county, look at the floodplain, then they would visit 2 with -- with the staff, review the permits that have been 3 pulled over the last five years, and make sure that they're 4 in compliance, and then as a result of that, they would give 5 a discount to the county, the flood insurance policyholders 6 in the county. So, it's basically -- all the hard work's 7 already been done. Now they just need to confirm that it's 8 been done. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what do we need to do 10 to make that happen, other than a court order? 11 MR. HEWITT: You need to approve the staff to 12 continue following this process. There's a 66-page 13 application that'll have to be filled out by staff, and then 14 Commissioners Court would need to attend that one meeting 15 with the Water Development Board and FEMA. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Workshop type meeting? Is 17 that what you're talking about? 18 MR. HEWITT: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, how does this interact 20 with the City's -- don't they have an administrator as well? 21 MR. HEWITT: Yeah, but this would be outside the 22 city. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Outside the city? 24 MR. HEWITT: Yeah. The City should do the same 25 thing. In fact, the City -- the County can get up to a 5-26-09 75 1 10 percent discount; the City could get up to a 40 percent 2 discount on their policyholders, because they have the 3 ability to regulate building and building codes and 4 construction permits, that type of stuff, whereas the County 5 doesn't have that ability. So, it would be independent. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know if they've done 7 this? 8 MR. HEWITT: They're talking about doing it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talking about doing it's good. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're going to do it, 11 let's do it before they do. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that Kerr 14 County participate in the community rating system that's 15 provided by FEMA, and be in the process of -- of evaluations 16 and sign-ups. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 21 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 22 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 5-26-09 76 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, John. 3 Appreciate you coming. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Mr. Hewitt. Let's go 5 ahead and take about a 15-minute recess. 6 (Recess taken from 10:31 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - - 8 (Commissioner Baldwin not present.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 10 we might. We were in recess. We'll take up Item 14; 11 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to set a date for 12 a Commissioners Court workshop for the purposes of completing 13 review of the Kerr County Personnel Policy handbook sections. 14 Commissioner Williams? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. We're 16 close, but no cigar yet, and we need to wind this up. We've 17 been working with the Human Resources now for some time 18 trying to do this. We have six sections remaining that we 19 need a workshop and come up with some answers and some 20 direction from Ms. Hyde, and I would move that we schedule a 21 workshop for 1:30 p.m. on June 22 to complete this project so 22 that we can get on with it, and need to do it before we get 23 into serious budget talks. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. I assume 5-26-09 77 1 that was a motion, wasn't it? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it was. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I thought it was. We have a 4 motion and a second. Question or discussion? 5 MS. HYDE: I told Commissioner Williams we'll go 6 ahead and send out something and try to have another meeting 7 with everyone like we've been having, so that if there's any 8 questions, we can maybe have a consensus before we bring it 9 to y'all, because the biggest questions will be on sick pay 10 and what we're going to do, and the vacation and those 11 sections. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do your homework. Let's 13 go. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also, I think we need to look a 15 little bit at the I.T. policy -- I.T.'s standing right 16 here -- to make sure that we're -- there seems to be a -- 17 there was something else not too long ago, all these letters 18 and e-mails going back and forth. I'm seeing them again. 19 He's in the middle of this one. I think we need to look at 20 that, and background checks and if that's needed. You know, 21 just really look -- 22 MS. HYDE: They're absolutely needed. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- look at all that at the same 24 time. 25 MS. HYDE: The policy now has background checks for 5-26-09 78 1 any new hires. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, we need to get all that 3 going so we can have that put to bed at the same time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, do we have a proposed 5 date for the workshop? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: June 22, 1:30 p.m. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for a 10 Commissioners Court workshop on Kerr County Personnel Policy 11 sections that are as yet unresolved. Further question or 12 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 13 signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's move to 18 Item 15, if we might. Consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action to declare certain personal property as 20 surplus, and approve the sale of same. 21 MR. EMERSON: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson. 23 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. As previously mentioned, 24 in an effort to consolidate our -- our property and be able 25 to watch all the DVD's from law enforcement, we've acquired 5-26-09 79 1 one laptop with a flat screen that's all interconnected that 2 we can jump back and forth between the courts and downstairs. 3 The up side to that is we have a Sanyo 27-inch TV, a Philips 4 20-inch TV, two Magnavox VCR/DVD players, a Durabrand DVD 5 player, and a Philips DVD player that are all surplus at this 6 point. And then we also had to replace our fax machine, so 7 we have a Brother Intelifax 4100 fax machine, and we would 8 ask the Court to declare them surplus. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 13 motion? Auditor? 14 MS. HARGIS: I need a copy of the -- of all of them 15 so I can take them off the -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So you can delete those from the 17 property inventory? 18 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Once that sale is complete. 20 Good. Any other question or comments? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, what do you plan to do 22 with the surplus stuff? 23 MR. EMERSON: I assume it'll be disposed of 24 pursuant to normal county policy. In the past we've always 25 sent it over to the Auditor's office and they've sold it on 5-26-09 80 1 the -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: EBay. 3 MR. EMERSON: Whenever we have a surplus sale. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have the two gov.deals 5 accounts where it's an auction online. One's for the regular 6 stuff, one's for Sheriff's Office stuff. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion, further? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess one other quick thing. 10 Because they're TV's and things, I don't know if any of the 11 departments may need those. 12 MR. EMERSON: We actually circulated a copy of the 13 agenda item with a list. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No one cared? 15 MR. EMERSON: Put it in all the department head 16 boxes two weeks ago, and didn't get any phones calls. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Speak now or forever hold your 19 peace. 20 MS. HYDE: We didn't get one. 21 MR. EMERSON: Y'all didn't get one? 22 MS. HYDE: I want the TV/DVD. 23 MR. EMERSON: Theoretically, we circulated a list. 24 (Laughter.) I know I presented them and copied them, put 25 them in the appropriate hands. How's that? 5-26-09 81 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the motion needs to be any of 3 the items that are not desired by other departments in the 4 courthouse within short order will be declared surplus, 5 correct? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's what we got? 8 THE CLERK: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All in favor of the motion, 10 signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Item 16; 15 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on approval 16 for additional deputy for Constable, Precinct 1. 17 MS. HYDE: We have to ask your permission to put on 18 another deputy for Precinct 1. The deputy would be an 19 assistant deputy. Is that what you call it? 20 MR. LAVENDER: Be a deputy, and be assigned to 21 Environmental Health. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 23 MR. LAVENDER: It's another deputy constable to be 24 assigned to Environmental Health, and as I understand it, 25 this was a budget approval in the last budget to go into 5-26-09 82 1 effect midyear this year. 2 MS. HYDE: A Code Enforcement person. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we appear like deer -- 4 MS. HYDE: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the headlights? 6 MS. HYDE: Yes. 7 MR. LAVENDER: We're prepared to answer. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Please do. 9 MS. HYDE: Last year when we budgeted, we asked for 10 another Code Enforcement person, and during the budget 11 process, because we weren't sure whether or not it was going 12 to be approved for a full-time person, the suggestion was 13 made by the Court that we put enough in part-time to not 14 bring them on in a full-time status until midyear, or towards 15 the end of the year. That's what we've done. The Code 16 Enforcement person does have a peace officer's license, and 17 the peace officer's license commission would be held by -- 18 MR. LAVENDER: Carried by Constable, Precinct 1. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it our practice to have 20 Code Enforcement be peace officers? 21 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that our policy? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good idea to have them be 24 peace officers. 25 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 5-26-09 83 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have that many, but -- 2 I mean, Ray. 3 MR. LAVENDER: That would be the second. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know Ray. Yeah, I know 5 Ray is. Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One for one. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, so now we're going to 8 be two for two, right? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: Well, we had one for years, Mr. North. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. Eddie North 13 was, that's correct. 14 MS. HYDE: And then before that, we had Chuck. 15 So -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Budgetary impact? 17 MS. HYDE: We have the money in his budget for the 18 position, but y'all have to approve to allow him to put 19 another deputy on. That's what we're asking permission for. 20 MR. LAVENDER: The reason for this, 151 in the 21 Local Government Code requires that I ask the Commissioners 22 for additional deputies. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5-26-09 84 1 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 2 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 3 right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 8 to Item 16A on your addendum; consider, discuss, and take 9 appropriate action to purchase used truck for Kerr County 10 Maintenance from Crenwelge Motors. I put this on the agenda 11 in conjunction with the Maintenance Department. The -- the 12 Maintenance Department has come across with what they think 13 is a good opportunity to purchase a light duty dump truck. 14 It's a maximum 6-yard, I think, at what we believe to be a 15 very attractive price. Mr. Bollier says he's got the money 16 in his budget. The Auditor has -- has confirmed that. And 17 he's asking for approval to purchase this particular truck. 18 The cost is 22,000 and change, few bucks more. It's a used 19 unit. It's a one-ton Dodge. I've looked at the unit; it's 20 in extraordinarily good shape, amazingly good shape. 21 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to court.) 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about 3 yards instead of 23 6 yards? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If can we buy a 3-yard 5-26-09 85 1 capacity. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's got sideboards on it. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, but I'm -- legally, 4 you can't haul 6 yards on a one-ton. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not even close. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But it -- it's a lighter duty. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not a big tandem axle; it's 10 single axle with duals. But Tim says he -- as a matter of 11 fact, had that been available this past weekend when they 12 needed to bring in some sand, it would have been perfect out 13 there at the fair when we got the sudden deluge of water. It 14 would have been absolutely perfect. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 24 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see here. 5-26-09 86 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you said 15-minute 2 break; I thought you said 16. I'm sorry for being late. 3 (Laughter.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we go ahead now, before 5 considering the executive session matters, and go to Section 6 4 of our agenda, payment of the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 10 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 11 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 16 amendments. We've been presented -- it's getting to be that 17 time of year -- with a summary of budget amendments, 1 18 through 23. Do I hear a motion to approve the budget 19 amendments as delineated in the -- in the summary furnished? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 23 Question or discussion on the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah -- go ahead. 5-26-09 87 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 4, Human Resources, 2 the conference issue. How -- how did we get that far off? 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, we kind of had an accident in 4 that department, and so they weren't able to -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Had an accident? 6 MS. HYDE: I had surgery. I couldn't go to three 7 conferences that normally occur in February, March, and 8 April. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MS. HYDE: So I couldn't go. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the March and April 12 money doesn't carry over to May and June? 13 MS. HYDE: They don't have those conferences. 14 They're annual conferences by TAC and T.C.D.R.S.; only have 15 them once a year. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's fine. I'm not 17 arguing. I just -- I'm not about to argue. 18 MS. HYDE: Do what? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Number 7, I take it that's 20 just getting ready for us approving doing something? 21 MS. HARGIS: Remember, in order to spend that 106, 22 because it's the 106,000 for sales tax that we received off 23 of the sale of that airplane that was over and above what we 24 budgeted, we had to budget the 106, and then we have to 25 budget the expense. So, you had said that you wanted to use 5-26-09 88 1 it in the last court session, the 75,000 to pay for the 2 airport improvements if we needed to, and so I set that up. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you just moved the money, 4 and then you'll wait for us to do an agenda item to authorize 5 doing it? 6 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I just don't want -- I 8 don't want to -- I just want to make it clear that we haven't 9 authorized spending that money yet. 10 MS. HARGIS: No. No, we just -- we're just setting 11 it up as a budget -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is just setting it up 13 for -- 14 MS. HARGIS: For that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the event we do it. 16 MS. HARGIS: Additional money had to be set up as 17 well. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On -- go ahead. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On Number 11, 216th District 22 Court, group insurance, how did we underbudget group 23 insurance? 24 MS. HARGIS: We really didn't underbudget that; it 25 was just not set up right. It was all put into one line 5-26-09 89 1 item, too much in FICA and not enough in the group insurance 2 line item, so we had to rearrange that. If you -- if you 3 look on there, nothing was put -- nothing's been hitting FICA 4 at all. It's all been hitting the group insurance line item, 5 so it's probably just a payroll coding function that we've 6 got to deal with. But if you look, we have nothing coming 7 out of FICA and everything coming out of group insurance. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Same question on number 20. 9 MS. HARGIS: Same situation. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Employee medical? 11 MS. HARGIS: On 20? Let me look at 20. No, on 12 that one he went over. Employee medical is -- is for -- it's 13 not group insurance; that's for medical exams and things of 14 that nature. And they went over in those line items by a 15 little bit, and Leonard asked that it be taken out of 16 contract fees. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One dollar over? 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, it's over. I have to address 20 it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to have to talk to 22 Leonard about his budgeting shortcomings. (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He could have pulled it out 24 of his pocket and saved all that trouble. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 21. Ms. Hargis, do we really 5-26-09 90 1 have almost 180,000 in the original budget for courthouse 2 security, fuel? 3 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, that's coming out of 10. If 4 you'll notice, that's Rusty line item. That's actually 5 coming out of the Sheriff. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, the -- the first entry 7 there, Courthouse Security, should be Sheriff's Office? 8 MS. HARGIS: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Strike one by Rusty. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a question. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got his attention. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one I have an issue with. 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, he has an issue with it. The 15 problem is that we received a grant, as you recall, in the 16 prior year, and when the books closed, the grant went away, 17 so there's no funds available to go back on the grant. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The issue I have with that -- 19 two things, okay? A $569 bill to pay for the card -- key 20 cards and key fobs for the courthouse security access, the 21 bill was turned in in October -- November, November of last 22 year. It's just now getting around to being paid. That's 23 issue number one. Issue number two is, every bit of that 24 bill was to come out of the Cailloux grant that paid for all 25 the security, okay? All the security improvements. How can 5-26-09 91 1 that $561 in that grant go away because of the end of the 2 year? That is a grant. It's not county money. I mean, it's 3 a grant to do courthouse security. It's not general fund 4 money, so how can it ever go back into the general fund? 5 MS. HARGIS: It closes -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Was this some funds that should have 7 been encumbered in the last budget year in order to -- 8 MS. HARGIS: If I had that -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- handle it? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, because it was grant 11 money; it wasn't county money, okay? So, the -- the budget 12 year wouldn't have -- wouldn't have affected that money at 13 all. It was set up as a total different grant. It was 14 received money from out of county. Once this system got 15 completed and we ordered the other cards -- which were 16 ordered in October, okay? Because of that, then the bill was 17 turned in and we closed out of -- we sent a letter to the 18 Caillouxes closing out the grant in November, 'cause that was 19 the last $569 of money in that grant, 'cause we were keeping 20 tabs on the grant. So, that grant money, okay, that $569 21 went somewhere. And that was specific grant money from the 22 Caillouxes to pay for what we budgeted it to pay for, so I 23 don't know how it can go away. And then you're taking $569 24 out of another fund. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Did the grant money come in last 5-26-09 92 1 year, last budget year? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 3 MS. HARGIS: It did. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At the end of the budget 5 year, come October 1, was the grant money rolled into the -- 6 MS. HARGIS: Fund 29. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Fund 29, which is what? 8 MS. HARGIS: Courthouse Security. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Huh? 10 MS. HARGIS: Courthouse Security. It was -- it was 11 placed in Courthouse Security, because it was for -- for 12 putting in the security system in the courthouse. There -- 13 and it is a revenue line item, whether it is a grant or not, 14 Rusty. A grant is a singular thing; it comes in for -- 15 unless we designate it out in two separate years, that 16 revenue has to be designated for the year it comes in, and it 17 rolls up just like everything else would roll up. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It can't. 19 MS. HARGIS: A grant is no different than any other 20 revenue line item that we get. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It has to be, because -- and 22 what I'm -- what this will force me to do is open up some 23 separate checking accounts, because number one, I have 24 donation accounts that we get; people donate money to the 25 Sheriff's Office to buy equipment. That money doesn't get 5-26-09 93 1 rolled into the general fund at the end of the year. That is 2 donated by citizens for a specific reason. Number two, I 3 have a seizure account that can only be spent on law 4 enforcement. That money never gets rolled in. And then we 5 have grants. And when grants come in, they are -- they're 6 spent for what they're intended to be. They are not taxpayer 7 dollars. They are not to be rolled in. 8 MS. HARGIS: We spent every dime of that money. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, there was $569 left. 10 That's why we spent that on that purchase. 11 MS. HARGIS: I don't have any paperwork on it, so, 12 Rusty, we need to talk about it, because I never received 13 anything to encumber. And even if I did encumber it, and I'm 14 just now paying it, there's no way the auditors would let me 15 do that. You can't encumber it for more than 90 days after 16 the end of the year. That's really the maximum amount of 17 time. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're not encumbering county 19 taxpayer dollars. 20 MS. HARGIS: We would have encumbered the grant. 21 The grant is the same funds. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It can't be. That's separate 23 money. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me offer a suggestion here. Why 25 don't we carve that one out of the budget amendments for now, 5-26-09 94 1 approve the remaining budget amendments as shown by the 2 summary, and let you guys work that out down the road. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only thing -- issue 4 I have with this now is that bill was due last October, and 5 hasn't been paid. 6 MS. HARGIS: Well, it just came into our office, 7 and it's stamped. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It came into your office last 9 October. I can show -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: How about we arm her and let the two 11 of y'all go outside? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 13 MS. HARGIS: That's fine. I -- I don't know. I 14 mean, we pay them as they come in. I didn't see it last 15 year. So -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's been there. 17 MS. HARGIS: I can't -- you know, I'm not going to 18 say it did or didn't. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion to approve the 20 budget amendments as per the summary. 21 THE CLERK: And a second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Who made the motion? 23 THE CLERK: The motion was by Commissioner 24 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 5-26-09 95 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the exception of 2 number twenty -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: One. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Satisfactory to you? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just fine. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion -- further discussion on the 8 motion as it now stands? All in favor of the motion, signify 9 by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Any late bills? 14 MS. HARGIS: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 16 reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1; Justice of the 17 Peace, Precinct 4; District Clerk; Road and Bridge; and 18 Constable, Precinct 3. Do I hear a motion that these reports 19 be approved as presented? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval of the designated reports as presented. Any 24 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 25 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5-26-09 96 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Reports 5 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or other 6 designated committee assignments? Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Next meeting I will -- 8 I'm going to bring a report on the Historical Commission and 9 the change of the guard there, but I'm just not ready to do 10 that yet. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, sir? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next week I'll be attending 15 a National Association of Regional Councils conference for 16 COGS in Denver as part of the contingent from AACOG. Then 17 I'll hustle back real quick, because the owner of Oak Grove 18 Mobile Home Park is finally coming into Kerr-patch, and we're 19 going to talk about easements. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Man, I wouldn't miss that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you wouldn't. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think everyone is aware that 5-26-09 97 1 I went to see the City Council last -- right after our last 2 meeting. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everybody in town's talking 6 about it. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're still talking about 8 it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the -- and the City Council 10 refused the request from the Airport Board, which was a 11 request from the County to go to E.I.C. for $75,000 of 12 funding for our portion of the match for the Phase 2 of the 13 drainage and runway relocation project. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 15 Was it a unanimous vote? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: There was no vote taken. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: In fact, the Airport Board president 19 had to -- even after they concluded the item, had to request, 20 you know, "Where am I on this?" And they did a quick 21 polling -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Consensus. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the members. The three 24 Council members that were present, as I recall, responded by 25 strongly oppose, oppose, and oppose, reading from left to 5-26-09 98 1 right. Sorry. Continue. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And at the conclusion of my 3 comments, which were somewhat lengthy, the mayor asked if the 4 County had a contingency plan for our funding, and I said no, 5 we did not, and we understood it was an important project and 6 we would evaluate it. That's why I asked the Auditor that we 7 have not approved that expenditure of 75,000. And at such 8 point, I'm sure we will have a request from the Airport 9 Board. That's kind of where that is. On the other item I've 10 been working on a lot of this year, part of last year, is the 11 working with the Legislature. The -- I think Tuesday is the 12 absolute deadline for Senate bills to come to the House 13 floor. I don't think anything's going to happen. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Little bit late in the scene 15 for all that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Today's Tuesday. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess it's today, then. 18 And they have till midnight tonight, I guess. My view is -- 19 and I've -- you know, once this deadline passes, I think that 20 it's, you know, I think worthwhile to continue it and work on 21 it next session. I don't -- you know, it got further along 22 than it has in the past. I think if we could have gotten the 23 representatives that represent us and the other hill country 24 counties to work closer together, I think this thing could 25 have happened. Hopefully we can work on that, but the actual 5-26-09 99 1 legislation is pretty much written now, so that's why I think 2 the plan is -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm amazed at that, that, 4 you know, you can't -- counties can't go to the Legislature 5 and get statewide blanket ordinance-making powers. So, you 6 kind of pare it back to get what you want locally, and can't 7 even get it out of the damn room. I don't understand that. 8 We're never going to get anything. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frustrating, isn't it? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. You have -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's frustrating. I think the 12 process is frustrating. Leave it at that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it is the process. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But it's -- you know, 15 there's another day, another session in two years. And, you 16 know, just about the same thing two years ago that we started 17 working on it, so, you know, it will come pretty quick. 18 And -- but that's the status of that. Unless something 19 surprising happens, I don't think it's going to go anywhere. 20 And actually, I think there's -- appears to me that the 21 Legislature did less this year than most years, which is 22 probably good. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can make that case. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No news is good news. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. They're still 5-26-09 100 1 working on some things, but they didn't get much accomplished 2 that I saw. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: They still have an opportunity to do 4 significant damage. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I know. And they're -- and 6 they're trying. Some of them are certainly trying. That's 7 it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know anything -- 9 seriously, just one quick question -- about where revenue 10 caps are and so forth in the process? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really don't. You know, 12 they're -- and the problem is that, you know, the amendment 13 process can attach to these things out of the blue at the 14 last minute. You just don't know. I mean, until the 15 deadline for bills, you just really don't know, and then you 16 still have to wait for the governor. So, I don't know. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything, Commissioner Oehler? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, just same stuff. I've 19 worked pretty closely with Environmental Health and with 20 Animal Control. I get daily -- sometimes daily reports of 21 possible problems, and sometimes weekly reports of possible 22 problems, and -- and pretty much updated most of the time 23 about what's going on with those two things. And that's 24 about it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I continue to hear good reports 5-26-09 101 1 about the appearance of the courthouse grounds, the changes 2 that we've made out there and the improvements that we've 3 made out there. Had a number of very positive comments 4 yesterday from the people that were here for the Memorial Day 5 ceremony, and, of course, the dinner on the grounds; got some 6 great comments following that, along with an urging to use 7 that -- use the grounds more often for functions of that 8 type. And I think Commissioner Baldwin is planning some more 9 of those. He's working on a 21-piece orchestra now to come 10 in and serenade us, I think. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Little band. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not big band. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is he working -- going to 15 work on lunch provided by Buster as well? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No. We've decided we -- we've 18 talked about that, and the thinking is once you start down 19 that slippery slope, then you got a problem on your hands. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: As long as everybody's invited to 22 come bring whatever it is they want; if it's an ice cream 23 social, bring their ice cream. If it's lunch, bring their 24 lunch, whatever. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fish fry and a keg of beer. 5-26-09 102 1 I mean, what more does a man want? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't imagine, as long as 3 you're paying for it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, nothing to it. 5 Where is the Auditor? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right there. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nevermind. Well, I'll have 8 to talk to you later about it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're getting to reports from 10 elected officials or department heads, and I see the Sheriff 11 seeking recognition. Surprise, surprise. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: M.H.M.R. stabilization unit, 13 the 16 beds that y'all voted to let the County help pay for 14 the paving and the funding, and their agreement at that time 15 when they did it was all patients under court order for State 16 Hospital treatment will be admitted, medically screened and 17 treated. Patients assessed to be medically unstable at the 18 time of admission will be sent to the community hospital or 19 something, okay? 'Cause I think they stood here and told 20 y'all that we would be able to take them. Last Friday 21 afternoon we got this e-mail. "Please be advised that 22 individuals must be medically cleared prior to admission to 23 the new Hill Country Crisis..." They went back on their word 24 on how we get them in there. We have no legal authority to 25 take them to get them medically cleared. The law states that 5-26-09 103 1 we must take them to the nearest appropriate -- or 2 inpatient -- appropriate inpatient mental health facility. 3 So, everything has now gone right back down the tubes. I 4 don't know what we do. I may need y'all's help. I've talked 5 to Rex and them about it, but getting them in there now has 6 gone totally back to where it had been before. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who -- who's the -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a simple -- it's simple 9 to me. We comply with the law. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have to, but what do you do? 11 We're saying we can't take them anywhere else, okay? Persons 12 found to need it. All right, we can't take them anywhere 13 else. They won't take them now out there until they get 14 medically cleared. We can't force them to go to the 15 hospital. We can't sit at the hospital with them. We can't 16 load them up in our car and take them to the hospital to get 17 medically cleared. That's what their doctors are for. 18 That's the way the unit was designed, but now they've gone 19 back on that word, and I don't know what to do about it. So, 20 I believe the mental health patients in this community are in 21 dire need. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The suggestion I've heard, Sheriff, 23 is that either the family has to see that the medical 24 clearance takes place; they'd be responsible for that, or 25 that an ambulance be called, which I don't know whether 5-26-09 104 1 that's in order merely to transport or to have the assessment 2 made by paramedics that do the EMS function, whether or not 3 that's going to be sufficient. But I -- I agree with you, 4 it's emerged as a problem that we got to figure out how to 5 handle. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and the problem is, we 7 can't -- being at the scene or anything, there's no way I'm 8 going to recommend a family member take this person to get 9 treated, 'cause a family member may get hurt, or a friend may 10 get hurt, and we've turned them loose on them, okay? I can't 11 do that. A person has a right at any time to refuse 12 transport by ambulance, you know, period, no matter what, and 13 they can't transport them. So, the agreement was they have 14 medical doctors and that out there; is that they would be 15 Court ordered out there. They would be examined out there, 16 and then they can transfer them, and they have a lot of 17 different authority to be able to get them medically done and 18 that. But evidently their doctors are saying they don't have 19 the equipment or whatever. I don't know, okay? I'm not 20 privy to that. But their doctors are refusing to do it, and 21 we can't -- everything's just gone down -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's a -- what's -- which 23 term are you using? Medical clearance? Is that what -- what 24 is that? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Taking them to the hospital, 5-26-09 105 1 getting lab work, everything else run on them to make sure 2 it's not a medical condition that is causing the mental -- 3 apparent mental condition; that it's truly a mental condition 4 and not medical. Not drugs, alcohol, you know, something 5 like that, seizures. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Drug use, high blood pressure, 7 stroke, all that kind of stuff. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, do you have any words of 9 wisdom? 10 MR. EMERSON: He's accurately cited the statute. 11 How's that? We don't have any statutory authority to pursue 12 the other method. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we have the authority to 14 take them out there? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. You have the direction by 16 statute to take them there to the nearest appropriate 17 inpatient mental health facility. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And what will happen if we 19 get -- if the court order says we take them out there, and 20 the person out there refuses to take them? Then I'm liable 21 to have another guest for contempt of court, and then it's 22 really going to get ugly. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that -- we 24 shouldn't just -- something needs to be done. Can you put 25 this on our agenda? This was a report. 5-26-09 106 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What can we do? What can -- 2 what authority does this Court do to change that right there? 3 I mean, the law is clear. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There probably isn't, other 5 than the agreement that was made back when the County agreed 6 to get involved in the parking lot. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? And that is on -- on 9 record with this court, kind of that agreement. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We probably need to 11 write them a letter and say, "Hey, what about the deal we 12 made?" 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All they need to do is comply 14 with the law. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with that 100 16 percent. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put it on the agenda. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get the Judge to write a 20 letter. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other little bitty 22 thing we have in Bruce's stuff about the Ingram Lake and all, 23 that we -- I met with the game wardens the other day, Friday, 24 and we have tentatively set up a training session for 12 of 25 my officers here locally. It's an 8-hour course, to go 5-26-09 107 1 through to be able to enforce water safety laws. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I thought you were 3 referring to the porta-potties. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't want the 5 porta-potties. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just hope they don't end up in 8 the lake. But -- but we will have that, you know. I guess 9 you can donate a jet ski so we can get out there and enforce 10 them. I don't know, but we will have officers that are 11 trained to be able to do the jet ski laws and that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I got to thinking. If 13 we put the Sheriff in charge of the porta-potties, -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- he can insure the security of 16 them. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sheriff's not in charge of 18 porta-potties. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, this is a good thing. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Sheriff? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to go back to the 22 mental health thing just for a second. Now, what happens -- 23 we're going to put it on the next agenda, and we're going to 24 do something. What happens in the meantime? What do you -- 25 what are you going to do if you get a mental patient or 5-26-09 108 1 whatever we call them -- call these folks? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're going to take them to 3 the new stabilization unit. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then what 5 happens? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If they -- if they -- if we 7 are refused, and that is a court order, then I'm going to 8 request that the Judge issue a contempt of court warrant on 9 the person that refused. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, arrest somebody at the 11 Kerrville State Hospital and put them in jail? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If that's what it takes. It's 13 actually at the stabilization unit. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Might even be the person in 16 charge. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might get some press. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That should get their 19 attention. Now, the issue is the doctors don't have tools, 20 stethoscopes and pencils and things like that, to examine -- 21 examine people? Is that what the deal is? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I really don't know, Buster, 23 what the actual issue is. I know when we ran through some of 24 the same type of stuff in the jail, and it's -- and from what 25 I understand, that's the same doctor that was hired out 5-26-09 109 1 there, is that they didn't have the lab equipment, the 2 availability to run lab work, do lab work, things like that, 3 X rays, that kind of stuff. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like they need to do 5 a contract with Peterson Hospital and get on down the road. 6 It reminds me of the new fed talk -- or the new -- John 7 Miller's precedent talking about not treating the military 8 people any more; that they have to pick up their own military 9 tabs -- I mean their own medical tabs from now on. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If they've got insurance? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any time. 12 MS. HYDE: Any of them. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any of them. When they come 14 back from the war, they have to pay their own medical stuff. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's going nowhere. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, going nowhere, but 17 that's his attitude. That's what he's pushing for. He 18 doesn't see it any other way. But that's -- this is what it 19 sounds like to me, and the State's not willing to do what 20 they're supposed to be doing. This is ridiculous. I'm going 21 to start riding with Rusty. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials or 23 department heads? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Back seat or front seat? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back, of course. 5-26-09 110 1 MS. HYDE: Will you pass those around, please? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is this? 3 MS. HYDE: One's for Cheryl; there's six. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this propaganda? 5 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It better be. 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 MS. HARGIS: We can't hear you unless you talk into 9 the mic. 10 MS. HYDE: Kathy can. Got this letter -- although 11 it was said on the 17th of April, it got lost here in the 12 courthouse somewhere. We got it last week, and so what I'm 13 reviewing with you guys is, in 2006, when I came here, your 14 unemployment rate was 38 cent for every dollar. It went down 15 in '08 to 28 cent, and this year it's going to go down to 16 .19. Some of the discussion, if you go to the second page, 17 we got a reimbursement check for over $15,000 due to that, 18 but the big part of it is, it's your elected officials and 19 your appointed officials have truly done a great job during 20 the last two years on working with -- with us as far as if 21 you're going to fire someone, if you're going to do 22 progressive discipline, and doing things the right way. 23 There was some discussion that because we got these big 24 raises last year, that that's why our rate went down. That's 25 not the case. If anything, your rate normally goes up when 5-26-09 111 1 you increase rates of pay, because it's paid off of the 2 person's pay rate. So, the elected officials and appointed 3 officials need to get a big hand, because they're the ones 4 that helped bring this all back, and we hope to do it again 5 next year. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You got the biggest hand. Any other 7 elected officials or department heads? Okay. Any other 8 reports? We do have one executive session item, so at this 9 time, it's 11:38 -- or, excuse me, 11:33. We will go out of 10 open or public session for the purpose of going into 11 executive session. 12 (The open session was closed at 11:33 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 13 is contained in a separate document.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we're back in open or public 16 session. It is 12:03 p.m. Does any member of the Court have 17 anything to offer in connection with matters considered in 18 executive or closed session? Hearing nothing, anything 19 further? We will be in recess until 1:30. 20 (Recess taken from 12:04 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, why don't we come back to 23 order for our 1:30 item, that being to consider, discuss, 24 take appropriate action on evaluation of employees that 25 report directly to Commissioners Court. Commissioner 5-26-09 112 1 Baldwin, you asked that in be placed on the agenda. Do you 2 have -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I believe I did, Judge. And 4 I can't tell you -- I can't even begin to tell you how much I 5 appreciate you allowing me to say something at this time. 6 But what I want to do is, I just wanted to get it on the 7 table and I want to talk about -- I want us all to talk about 8 whether we we're going to just dive into this thing and start 9 evaluating people, or do we want to talk about evaluation 10 forms? To give you an example, I'm not real crazy about 1, 11 2, and 3. Seems like, to me, there needs to be a 1, 2, 3, 4, 12 5 levels. And I'm sure that if y'all -- I was talking to 13 Bill about it earlier, and he's kind of been through this 14 already once, but it's just -- that's just my opinion, and 15 that's just an example. Do we want to talk about all those 16 kind of things? Do we want to talk about how we're going to 17 do this? Are we going to evaluate people in alphabetical 18 order, or weight, or how much money they have? Or, you know, 19 how do you -- how are we going do this? I'd like -- I'd like 20 for us to set in place some kind of plan, and then -- and 21 then let's rock and roll. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the answer is yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes to what? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What you said. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of the above. Just to 5-26-09 113 1 throw a little more light on what Commissioner Baldwin's 2 talking about, when I first reviewed this with Ms. Hyde, we 3 -- she had five categories. And -- am I correct, Eva? It 4 was five, wasn't it? 5 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked it out and so 7 forth. The ones I've done in the past often seem to 8 concentrate on three, for a couple reasons. First of all, 9 the more categories you have, the more difficult it is to 10 score people, because it becomes more -- more -- I don't 11 know, subjective, perhaps. Not objective. And secondly, 12 just because there are three categories doesn't mean that you 13 have to score in each of those categories, 1, 2, or 3. The 14 three categories very simplistically say that the employee 15 does not meet our expectations, does meet our expectations, 16 which is very good, and -- and/or exceeds, as in number 3, 17 exceeds our expectations. So, any of those three categories, 18 instead of putting a 1, 2, or 3 down there, if you think that 19 somebody is in the lower category and doesn't meet, but just 20 barely doesn't meet, give that person a 1.6, a 1.7 or 21 whatever. Or if you think he's in the middle category, where 22 it says that he does meet expectations, and you know that in 23 some categories they have really done more than meeting 24 expectations, but they're not all the way above -- all the 25 way to the 3 in terms of being totally above expectations, 5-26-09 114 1 score them 2.2, whatever. You can break it up. That's the 2 whole point. Doesn't have to be 1, 2, 3, ironclad, end of 3 story. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm not hung up on any 5 of that. You know, just -- I think we need to have the 6 discussion, though. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can live with three. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I look at it 10 differently now. I thought that the intent was to go 1, 2, 11 3. I didn't know I could do 1.6. So, I mean, I think that 12 as long as we're all -- we all need to understand the same, 13 you know, parameters that we're working under, and that's 14 fine. Three is fine. I was kind of like Buster; I wanted -- 15 I like five better than three, but if we can split them up, 16 it's all the same then. I think the other question I have, 17 really, is what are we doing with them, the evaluations? 18 What's the purpose? I mean, to give -- is it to just give 19 feedback? Is it to figure out -- I mean, what are we going 20 to do with them? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, essentially, the 22 purpose of reviewing any employee is to make certain that the 23 employee knows exactly how you, as an individual, or the 24 Court feels about his or her performance. And if there are 25 deficiencies, they need to be corrected, and we need to 5-26-09 115 1 identify for them what those deficiencies are. If there's 2 praise, then by all means, give them the praise. What we do 3 with them after that is they become a matter of the permanent 4 record, and I think the Court needs to decide if -- in our 5 case, if we want all of these to be kept in our -- in our 6 domain up here, or whether we want them to be back down in 7 Human Resources as a part of the individual's file. I don't 8 have any preconceived notions about that. That's for the 9 Court to make a decision on. But the whole object is, if I 10 want to tell Tim, "Tim, I don't think you're doing it," then 11 he needs to hear that. I don't want to tell him that, but if 12 that's what I want to tell him. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if -- this is where we've 14 always gotten, I think, a little bit hung up on evaluations 15 in the past, is that these people in the room have the 16 fortune -- or unfortunate situation of working for five 17 people. And whereas Bruce may evaluate someone with a 1 and 18 I might give him a 3, what's the feedback? And if we average 19 it out, that really doesn't give feedback. I mean, are we 20 going to try to come up with a Court position, or are we just 21 going to have five individual positions? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a very good 23 question. You want to shed some light on that, Ms. Hyde? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I will. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5-26-09 116 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I just -- I think that 2 we ought to -- ought to do the evaluation and give our sheets 3 to Ms. Hyde, and let her put it all together and come up with 4 a number from the entire Court, not individually. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool with that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't imagine you getting 7 anywhere individually. But we come up with a number from the 8 Commissioners Court to -- you know, as a statement from us, 9 and we -- you know, personally, when we get into the budget 10 issue and start talking about maybe, or maybe not, salary 11 increases, then those numbers apply to that, or, you know, 12 that kind of thing. That's all. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Following up on what 14 Commissioner Baldwin's talking about, and I agree with him, 15 is that if we -- if we do it the way Buster's talking about, 16 we give it back to Ms. Hyde, and we get into one of these ten 17 categories right here, and there are some notations from us 18 that there is some -- are some deficiencies, I think it's up 19 to her, then, in reviewing all this, to counsel with that 20 employee and say, you know, the Court's -- blah, blah, blah, 21 blah, blah; however, on such-and-such category, they find you 22 deficient and they want you to improve. I think that's a 23 pretty decent way to do it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know about that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not sure if I want to go 5-26-09 117 1 that far or not. I'd like -- you know, if we find somebody 2 deficient, I think we need to drag them back in here and tell 3 them ourselves. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that, too. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have that visit. What 6 do you think, Judge? Do you have a thought? I know you had 7 a couple yesterday; I heard you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- number one, I appreciate 9 the self-evaluations. It appears to me the self-evaluations, 10 I think, were pretty doggone candid, but they came from two 11 different perspectives, based on my observations. One 12 perspective was that 3 was absolutely top-notch, perfect, no 13 room for improvement, and 2 was getting by -- better than 14 getting by, doing their job. And, of course, 1 was 15 substandard performance. The other perspective that I 16 observed in the self-evaluations was that -- not that -- 3 17 wasn't absolutely top-notch, perfect, no room for 18 improvement. It was someone that's clearly doing a better 19 job than what their job description called for. So, I think 20 from the -- from the self-evaluation, those came from two 21 different -- two different perspectives. I think it's clear 22 enough to identify in looking at them by the persons that did 23 their own evaluations. I appreciate the self-evaluations. I 24 think they were -- I think they were pretty doggone candid. 25 I think most of these folks, at least coming from the 5-26-09 118 1 perspective they were coming from, tried to do as good a job 2 as they could in their heart of hearts of telling us where 3 they thought they were. I think -- frankly, think many of 4 them may have been a little hard on themselves ratings-wise. 5 I don't think they were as candid as they needed to be with 6 identifying what they thought were their own weaknesses. 7 Most of them, I -- if they had any particular strengths, they 8 identified them. 9 With regard to an ongoing process, I think we 10 utilize the self-evaluations. We work from those 11 individually. We allow H.R. to compile that. And because I 12 don't necessarily know what Buster did, nor he know -- knows 13 what I did, that compilation is going to trigger some 14 thoughts that we each have that we may not have had before. 15 When it comes to pointing out extraordinary strengths or 16 areas of weakness, I think we need to talk particularly to -- 17 about the weaknesses with the individual employee, I think 18 that as a matter of courtesy. With regard to the strengths, 19 I think we need to let the world know about it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So that people can know the kind of 22 employees that we have, and who we have running their 23 business. So, I guess, you know, wherever that puts me, 24 that's where I am. But like Buster, I think if there -- if 25 there's an issue that we have with a particular employee 5-26-09 119 1 insofar as a weakness, I think it behooves us to express our 2 own thoughts directly to that individual, either in here as a 3 body and in an executive session framework, or individually 4 and privately, whichever way we may choose. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd prefer it to be as a 6 Court, to hear the concerns of other -- of other members of 7 this Court on individuals where they think there's a problem. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think it should be 10 something -- because individually we don't really have any 11 authority. And I think that way we can -- we would at least 12 be aware of what the feelings are and where the conflicts 13 might be, and see if that can be worked out. Also, I know 14 that some of those -- some of our department heads don't have 15 a -- have liaisons. You know, I have two departments that 16 are -- I'm liaison to, but there are other departments that I 17 don't -- am not aware that anybody on this Court is a liaison 18 to that department head. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I think that has some 21 bearing, 'cause I work with people that I'm designated to 22 work with regularly, and I -- they have been very open and 23 honest with me about when they see problems, I hear about 24 them quickly. I told them when I got back on this court, I 25 said, "I don't want to be blindsided in public." I want -- I 5-26-09 120 1 want to be aware of things that are potentially problems so 2 that I can respond. You know, and it has worked real well 3 that way, and I'm not real sure that we might not ought to 4 designate to some of these other department heads a liaison 5 so when they have problems you can help them work through 6 them and you can make the Court aware of problems. I think 7 I've done that in several instances in the past. And we have 8 changed leaders in Environmental Health, you know, during the 9 last two years. And I think that way you sense problems 10 because you are involved ahead of time. Whenever -- if you 11 don't work with them regularly, you don't have that -- really 12 don't have that knowledge. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which departments don't 14 have a liaison besides Road and Bridge? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I believe the Court 16 Compliance doesn't. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I.T. 18 MR. STANTON: I do. Commissioner Williams. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Commissioner Williams is 20 yours? We have several that do not have a liaison. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He works with I.T. I work 22 with -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Court Compliance. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Court Compliance. It's 25 just not official. 5-26-09 121 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But I think I it's -- it 3 helps to have them official. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's fine, but I go 5 down there and listen to all that whining every day. 6 (Laughter.) You know, nothing's going to get done, but I 7 listen to it. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anyway, I just think that 9 that -- you know, I believe that's the reason you have a 10 liaison, is because you find problems out quicker that way 11 than you do all five of us trying to figure out if somebody's 12 doing a good job or not. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: True. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I just think that ought 17 to have some bearing on -- on how the evaluation comes out. 18 I think you just have more knowledge and more ability when 19 you're dealing with somebody on a regular basis than you do 20 maybe dealing with them a couple times a year over something 21 that might become controversial in your precinct. I'm aware 22 of everything that goes on that's controversial in Bill's and 23 Buster's, and Jonathan's too. Not as much in Jonathan's; he 24 doesn't have any controversy. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, good precinct. 5-26-09 122 1 Nothing happens. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We take care of it ourselves. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I understand. That's 4 okay. But I don't -- I'm not saying that evaluations are a 5 bad thing. I just think we need to be careful how we do them 6 and how we -- you know, I guess how we respond to some of 7 these self-evaluations. And how -- and maybe one or two 8 little instances that may have happened over the past several 9 years could have a big impact on the way you feel about an 10 individual that, 90 percent of the time, does a really fine 11 job. And, you know, everybody makes mistakes, and they need 12 to be pointed out and they need to learn from them; we all 13 do, because we all make them. But I'm -- I'm in support of 14 doing evaluations. I really like the self-evaluation. Most 15 times peoples are harder on themselves than other people 16 would be on them. I know I am. I'm a lot harder on myself 17 than some people are on me. Anyway, I think it is a good 18 idea. I think it's just the method in which we do it, and 19 what happens to the results and what we do about it. But I 20 think we ought to have them individually. We ought to handle 21 it individually, and in executive session. We get to discuss 22 it with that individual. I don't think anybody else needs to 23 be in to listen to it. It's none of anybody else's business. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all I would say. 5-26-09 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well Commissioner Baldwin, you 2 launched this little balloon. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, how much time -- how 4 much time do we have? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: How much time do you need? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much time do you have 7 before you get up and leave and go do the juveniles? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Before you meet the lady on 9 the end of Doyle Road at 3:30. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you get security up 11 here? (Laughter.) This man -- there's some security. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: May have picked the wrong security 13 enforcer. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I just recognized 15 that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I start -- I start at 3:00. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, so, are y'all ready to 18 -- y'all ready to launch into one, see what we can come up 19 with? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm -- launch into one 22 in what way? I thought you had earlier said we were going to 23 send all of our evaluations down to Eva and get them back 24 with a composite. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we haven't -- we 5-26-09 124 1 haven't evaluated them yet. I think we need to have a 2 conversation with them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, like this -- this 5 right here on my top is Kevin Stanton, and Kevin Stanton is 6 sitting out here -- standing over there, and I -- you know, 7 if we have any conversation about any of these things -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you want to -- you want to 9 have a conversation on their self-evaluation with each of 10 them that are here? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Okay, that's fine. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me ask a 14 question. What are we -- were we not going to do individual 15 worksheets? And what we have here on self-evaluations is for 16 our purposes, and in comparison, and we can score an 17 individual's worksheet any way we want. Is that correct, 18 Ms. Hyde? 19 MS. HYDE: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, we need 21 individual worksheets for each department head. 22 MS. HYDE: And you should have those. You mean 23 blanks? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Blank ones. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5-26-09 125 1 MS. HYDE: They're on your computers. Do you want 2 them on hard -- do you want hard copy blanks? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need hard copy 4 if we're going to be with these folks. 5 MS. HYDE: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When was the e-mail sent? 7 MR. STANTON: Last Wednesday or -- Tuesday or 8 Wednesday last week. 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're trying to -- maybe it was 11 deleted. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I deleted it. I don't have 13 it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't delete it off your 15 county computer; you got to leave everything on there. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Trolinger can go find 17 it for me, then. Let's see. I don't have -- I don't have 18 anything from Eva related to this stuff on my computer. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think I do either. 20 Is this it, Bill, right here? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These were the selfs. No, 22 we should have a blank -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have anything 24 either? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. We need a blank for 5-26-09 126 1 everybody. A blank for everybody. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, when we get -- 3 when we get down to evaluating Eva, don't forget this part. 4 (Laughter.) 5 MS. HYDE: They're going to bring some up. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 MS. HYDE: There's two of them. Did y'all want to 8 decide which one? Or is that going to be part of the -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, see, that's something 10 to talk about too. Now, what -- tell us the difference in 11 these two things. 12 MS. HYDE: Honestly? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, honestly. 14 MS. HYDE: Not too -- not much, other than this one 15 is one sheet. You have to go back and look; there's a couple 16 of more things on here than is on this. This is all just one 17 sheet. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm going to go with 19 the one sheet. 20 MS. HYDE: These here are on there. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that. 22 MS. HYDE: We just combined it down to one sheet. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The difference, however -- 24 Eva, point it out to them -- is that the one sheet, the 25 explanations under each category are a little more complex 5-26-09 127 1 than the other. 2 MS. HYDE: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if you take the other 4 sheet, you're looking at just categorical lines; planning, 5 budget, organization, blah, blah, blah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Must have come in as junk mail. 7 MS. HYDE: You got them, Commissioner Letz, 'cause 8 I get little checkmarks back when y'all get them. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's not on this -- it's 10 not in here. 11 MS. HYDE: John, fix his e-mail. He doesn't have 12 the e-mail. 13 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 14 MS. HYDE: Please. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Which e-mail? 16 MS. HYDE: We'd be looking for the one that shows 17 -- that has these in it, the evaluations. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we getting them or not? 19 Are we getting hard copies? 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm looking under my -- under 23 Eva. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir? 5-26-09 128 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we in a position to efficiently 2 do this today? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't think so. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I was beginning to come to that 5 conclusion myself. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the reason I wanted 7 to talk about this. You know, what is the proper way to do 8 this whole thing? And we're just going to be shooting out in 9 the dark, just taking off on this. But I'm willing to do 10 that. (Cell phone rang.) Is that me? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- I think we would 12 be -- 13 MS. HYDE: I thought y'all would do it online. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'd be better 15 served to schedule the time so everybody knows exactly when 16 they're coming in. Schedule a block time. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So everybody knows exactly 19 when they're coming in, we have our worksheets available, we 20 have their self -- what they've signed, and we go bang, bang, 21 bang, bang, bang. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And we agree upon the playing field 23 as to whether or not 3 is absolutely no improvement 24 available, stellar, or whether that's just normally -- 25 routinely exceeds the normal requirements of the job, because 5-26-09 129 1 of the two different perceptions that I'm seeing from the 2 self-evaluation. I don't know whether you saw -- saw that. 3 MS. HYDE: I didn't read any of them. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't see any? 5 MS. HYDE: No, they were all sealed and brought to 6 y'all. The biggest -- the biggest thing, when -- a lot of 7 times when people cut it down to three, 1's, 2's and 3's, and 8 you're doing group evaluations like this, you let the 9 personnel to do 1's, 2's and 3's, and you allow the team 10 that's making the final determination to have splits. 11 Because if you allow self -- you know, 2.5, 1.5, most people 12 function better brain-wise thinking about 1, 2 or 3. Do I -- 13 am I not making it? Am I making it? Or do I exceed it a 14 lot? And then -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Also, the Spanish thing is 16 not going to work. 17 MS. HYDE: So -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But most of the -- of these 19 selfs, they split them into 2.5's and they split them. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: There's -- there was a couple. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I guess you can do it both 22 ways. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MS. HYDE: Because down at the bottom, it just 25 compiles it. You're going to end up with a 2 or a 1 point, 5-26-09 130 1 or -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I think it's on my 3 other computer. 4 MS. HYDE: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not on this one. 6 MS. HYDE: But do you want both of them, or is that 7 part of what you're going to talk about? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the one-pager, 9 personally. I think it's, you know -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it's okay. Top 11 sheet. 12 MS. HYDE: Top sheet. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, how much -- you know, 14 looking at the second sheet, -- 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- it has a little bit more 17 information, I'm thinking. Is this these same things over 18 here, too? 19 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. We're going with 21 the top sheet; I don't want to talk about it any more. Okay. 22 So, we're going to go with the top sheet, and somebody's 23 going to hand us a stack of hard copy -- 24 MS. HYDE: Blanks. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For us to fill out? 5-26-09 131 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then -- so we're going 3 to do this at the next meeting, two weeks from today? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know. What's the -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all want to do it two 6 weeks from today? Or do you want a special meeting in 7 between then and now? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you got eight 9 employees you're going to do. If you allowed each of them 15 10 minutes, you're talking about a two-hour allocation of time, 11 so that's fine. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And some of them may take 13 longer than 15 minutes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think so. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some may take less. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you're looking at 30. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, like Tim, we're 18 talking five minutes, max. We're just going to tell him what 19 to do and get him out of here. I'm kidding. Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kevin had his hand up. 21 MR. STANTON: I just -- if we're going to -- if the 22 Court is going to push this back and we're not going to do 23 this today, now that -- now that all of us -- I mean, I know 24 that I was -- now that all of us know which sheets we're 25 supposed to work on, how we're supposed to grade ourselves, 5-26-09 132 1 and if the Court can tell us what exactly a 3 is and what 2 exactly a 2 is, can we go back and do our evaluation -- our 3 self-evaluations -- and I might be the only one that wants to 4 do this, but -- and get them back to you guys in a day or 5 two? Because I think, like what Judge Tinley was saying, we 6 all had different perceptions of what 3 was, what 2 was. I 7 didn't know that I could put 2.5 or 1.3 or, you know, all 8 that kind of stuff. I was grading it 1, 2, and 3. And so I 9 guess what I'm asking, if we're going to put this off, is 10 there any way that we can go back and correct -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Start over. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would love for you to. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. We want it to be -- 14 yeah. That's exactly right. We want everyone to be on the 15 same page. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will give Ms. Hyde an 17 opportunity to give us yours sealed in an envelope with a 18 worksheet. Then we're prepared to go. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see if we can light on what 1, 20 2, and 3 mean. Do we take 3 as absolutely top of the line, 21 with virtually no room left for improvement? Or -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would take 5 there. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd take a 3 there. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if I can take 5-26-09 133 1 3. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I take a 3 there, and that 3 being that they are -- they are meeting all of the 4 expectations of their job description and doing a good job. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perfect. They're perfect. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doing their job, as being a 7 -- being a 3. I don't think you're going to get many 3's. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because that almost says 10 there's no room for improvement. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's where I'm coming from. 12 If we're going to say 3 is -- you're topping out, you are 13 topped out. But -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, 2.6 gives them a 15 reason. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. So, I guess if we're -- if 17 we're going to use 3 as a topped out, as long as we agree, 18 and they know that's where we're coming from, and they should 19 be coming from that same scale, I think that's what's 20 important. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the way to 23 do it. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I really like the idea of the 25 points. 5-26-09 134 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if you're a 1, you should 2 probably be fired. 3 MS. HYDE: Do what? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a feeling that if any 5 of them rate 1 in a lot of categories, they wouldn't be here. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or shouldn't be here. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hang around the 2 somewhere, 8 guys. 9 MR. BOLLIER: High 2. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If any of them are in the 1's, I 11 think they'd already be gone. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's generally what 13 happens. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Without any evaluations at 17 time of termination. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if -- but at the same time, 19 I mean, I would be surprised if a -- well, I'd be surprised 20 if 1's came from either side. Be really surprised. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But they may want to give 22 themselves a 1.5 -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- and a 1.6, and that's 25 not -- 5-26-09 135 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, that just shows that 3 they feel like that there's a place they really need to 4 improve on. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or it's a place -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We're thinking alike. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a place that we think they 8 really need to improve on. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, it works both ways 10 that way. But 1, 2, and 3 seems a little bit -- that's 11 pretty tough. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the -- as long as we use 14 decimals in between them all, I'm fine with it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're all okay on the scaling 17 aspect, then. Three is the top; you're out. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shhh, here she comes. 19 MS. HYDE: She made me a bunch of copies, 'cause 20 there's 50 copies. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you give us a 22 packet if we're going to get new reviews from people? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need eight of these a 24 piece? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten each. 5-26-09 136 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can couple that review 2 with a worksheet for every individual. 3 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, you want to give them to me 4 this time, and then I'll give them to you? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 6 MS. HYDE: So you want to give them to me this 7 time, and then put them with this and give them to you? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So long as they're sealed. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she -- I mean, Ms. Hyde 11 would look at them. 12 MS. HYDE: I didn't this time. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know you didn't this time, 14 but if they're giving them to you, who's going to -- you're 15 just going to average ours? Or -- 16 MS. HYDE: I'm waiting on y'all to direct. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How is she -- she's going to 18 have to look at ours if she's going to -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I thought 20 you were talking about coming into it. Going back, yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we get -- the individuals 22 come to us sealed. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With a worksheet. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then we -- independently of 25 that process, we evaluate each one and get it to Ms. Hyde, 5-26-09 137 1 and then she's going to come back to us with a -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Spreadsheet. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- spreadsheet? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fine. 6 MS. HYDE: I have a question on that one. Let's 7 say -- let's say you're evaluating me, and Buster feels like 8 I'm a P.O.S., so he gives me a 1, okay? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You just wait. 10 MS. HYDE: And then on the same one, Commissioner 11 Letz gives me a 2, and then I get a 3. If I'm looking at 12 those -- 'cause y'all aren't going to know that. So, you 13 have the whole gamut of a 1 all the way to a 3 on that 14 employee. Am I making sense? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. So far. 16 MS. HYDE: How are you going to let that employee 17 know? Because we -- we report to all five of y'all, so if 18 I'm not meeting your expectations, I might be meeting the 19 others', but I'm not meeting yours. I still have to meet 20 your expectations, so how -- how do we let the people know 21 that without singling somebody out? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me see if I can 23 address that. If somebody's given you a 1, I'm going to -- 24 I'm going to make a wager that out there in the remarks 25 column, which there should be, there is some notation of -- 5-26-09 138 1 of a serious deficiency. 2 MS. HYDE: Okay. Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, even, as far as that goes, 4 if -- say you're a 2 or a 2 point -- 5 MS. HYDE: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And someone thinks you've got a 7 serious deficiency. Even though -- there should be a remark 8 there. 9 MS. HYDE: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: There needs to be a compilation of 11 those remarks also, irrespective of where they come from. 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 'Cause I think -- I think that's 13 important. Because with five of y'all, we might be meeting 14 some expectations, but being deficient in others. We may not 15 know that -- that you even want to hear from us. You know 16 what I mean? Or -- go ahead. 17 MR. STANTON: Sorry. Maybe on the spreadsheet that 18 she provides to Commissioners Court, she could individually, 19 like, tell the scores from each of the different County 20 Commissioners, and then come up with a cumulative score. 21 That way, when y'all are reviewing it with the employee, you 22 guys know exactly what each of y'all gave that employee, and 23 when you're looking at it -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to suggest 25 that. 5-26-09 139 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I was saying a 2 while ago. We need to have a discussion amongst ourselves to 3 figure out who -- who has a problem and where the problem is. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your scoring block, 5 break it down into five subcategories, subcolumns within the 6 scoring block for the Court. That way we would identify 7 who -- we know that Bruce may have given somebody a 3 and I 8 may have scored that same person with -- I know somebody else 9 scored it a 1, and we would know that we have a disparity 10 here. Can do you that? 11 MS. HYDE: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you set that worksheet 13 up in the scoring block? 14 MS. HYDE: Yeah, all right. 'Cause that way -- 15 what I'll do is, I'll do that, and that cumulative score from 16 the five will be the score. And that way y'all will see what 17 everybody graded and their cumulative score per area. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you play with the 19 worksheet and do a draft, and you and I get together and see 20 if we think it will fly. 21 MS. HYDE: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think if any of us have a 23 concern with one of our employees that actually works under 24 the Court, we need to know about it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 5-26-09 140 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Need to know what it is, and 2 we need to know how it can be fixed, and fix it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are we all sufficiently 4 wandering around in a haze now? Do you think we've clarified 5 some issues? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's clear. I'm ready. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's clear as mud. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First round. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do we want to do it? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Need to destroy all these. 11 MS. HYDE: Do you want me to shred them? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do what? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want to shred it? Jody 14 will shred it. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want those getting 16 confused with anything else. 17 MS. HYDE: Want me to shred any? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do y'all want to meet on a 19 regular Commissioners Court day, or do you want to call it 20 special? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we ought to have a 22 special. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before two weeks. I'm in 24 agreement with that, actually. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before two weeks? 5-26-09 141 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, not -- not, like, 11 2 days from today or something, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about we do it the Tuesday 4 after our next meeting? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would work better for 6 me. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, let's do it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be the 14th of June, I believe. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Be the 16th of June. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just what I said. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next meeting's the 8th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, excuse me. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will be the 9th. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 15 MS. HYDE: Okay. So, June 9th? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: June 9th. That's okay. 17 That works for me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we do it in the afternoon? I 19 don't know what I'll have in the way of mental health in the 20 morning. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have lots of problems over 22 there. We'll hear at the next court meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can do it at night, far 24 as I'm concerned. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon? 1 o'clock or 1:30? 5-26-09 142 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 1:30? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2:00? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 1:30. 4 MR. BOLLIER: 1:30 June the 9th. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 MS. HYDE: Is it a workshop or, like, a special -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Going to be a special meeting, 8 because on a couple, we're going to have to go into executive 9 session. 10 MR. STANTON: And each department head will be 11 issued a specific time for them to be here? Or just 12 everybody come at once? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde can set up a 14 schedule. Set it up so we know who's coming; the people now 15 sitting around waiting will know when to come. 16 MS. HYDE: All right, sure. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll get with you on that. 18 MS. HYDE: Okay. I have one more question. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. HYDE: Somebody said eight people, and I'm 21 really wracking my brain on who the eight are. Can somebody 22 kind of help me? I got Leonard, Tim, John, Janie, Ray, 23 Collections, and me and him; that's seven. I'm missing one. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Jody. 25 MS. HYDE: Jody? Okay. 5-26-09 143 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know how to do 2 it -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got seven in here right 4 now. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rosa -- and Rosa. 6 MR. STANTON: Do you want Rosa to do it? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, because Indigent Health 8 Care has become -- I mean, it's kind of under her. That's a 9 pretty important part now, to me. 10 MS. HYDE: Well, I left Jody off of everything, so 11 she doesn't even know, just so y'all know. So, it wasn't 12 that she was ignoring -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's not a department head, 14 but she certainly reports to us. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we include those two? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or not? Yes? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What two? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody and Rosa. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, definitely. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no one else? 24 MS. HYDE: But the J.P.O.'s are not, right? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No, they're subject to Juvenile 5-26-09 144 1 Board. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about Kathy? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just give -- out of 1, 2, 3 4 deal, let's just give her a 4 and go on. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: She can make the record reflect 6 whatever she wants to anyway. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. She'll start 8 cussing again like she did the other day. Embarrassing. 9 Whew. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we're all clear. Crystal 11 clear, as they say. Anything else, gentlemen? We are 12 adjourned. 13 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:11 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 STATE OF TEXAS | 16 COUNTY OF KERR | 17 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 18 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 19 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 20 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 21 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 29th day of May, 2009. 22 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 5-26-09