1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, July 13, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 13, 2009 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 6 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve updated Kerr County Indigent Health 5 Care policy which goes into effect 9-1-09 11 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, approve appointment of election judges and alternates for term of one year in 7 accordance with Texas Election Code Section 32 19 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, approve consolidating polling locations in accordance with Chapter 43 of Texas 9 Election Code 20 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action confirming enforcement of Kerr County Rabies 11 and Animal Control Order adopted August 11, 1997, requiring animals brought to Flat Rock Lake Park 12 to be leashed at all times when in the park, and further to restrict all animals to upper portion 13 of the park located to the east of Third Creek 21 14 1.7 Presentation regarding Kerr County 4-H Program Interpretation to Commissioners Court 68 15 1.8 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Headwaters 16 Ranch, Phase 3, Volume 8, Pages 92-92, Precinct 4 74 17 1.9 Presentation by Rose Jackson, AACOG Housing Manager, regarding Weatherization Assistance 18 Program's increased level of activities as a result of funding from A.R.R.A. 75 19 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 20 request from Grand Commandery of Texas Knights Templar for a reduced rate for parking at HCYEC 82 21 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 22 declare as surplus a list of information technology equipment 88 23 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 24 engagement letter on FY 2009 audit by Neffendorf, Knopp, Doss & Co., P.C. 90 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) July 13, 2009 2 PAGE 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve a 1-year contract for investment advisory services with Patterson & Associates 92 4 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 abandon, vacate, and discontinue Lots 216-222, including 20-foot-wide road adjoining these lots 6 to the west in Center Point Estates, Unit Two; set two public hearings -- 7 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 buy RBU121 Caterpillar 420D backhoe 93 9 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to install four "No Parking" signs at Brink's 10 Crossing on CP River Rd., Precinct 2, and also install four "No Parking" signs at Waltonia 11 Crossing on Kelly Creek Rd., Precinct 4 97 12 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve final revision of plat for Headwaters 13 Ranch, Phase III; release Letter of Credit for Phases I, II, and III, and accept Maintenance Bond 14 for one year for Phases I, II, and III, Pct. 4 107 15 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal 16 District Operating Budget 108 17 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on setting dates for budget workshops for FY 2010 18 budget 113 19 1.18 Presentation of audit report for office of the District Clerk 120 20 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 21 acceptance of audit of Environmental Health Dept. 121 22 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding eliminating part-time jailer position & 23 approving a full-time clerk position in the jail 122 24 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding renewal of Kerr County Teen Curfew 127 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) July 13, 2009 2 PAGE 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 request unclaimed Capital Credits received from Electric Cooperative from Texas Comptroller of 4 Public Accounts; authorize County Judge to prepare letter of request 128 5 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 6 adoption of resolution in opposition to Clean Water Restoration Act 129 7 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 obtain assistance from architect(s), designer(s) and/or planners to assist in layout and design of 9 building to house Adult Probation, elements of Kerr County Sheriff's Office, and/or others 131 10 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 11 Amendment to Lease for Thad M. Ziegler Building currently being used for Adult Probation Dept. 150 12 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 13 reviewing status of interlocal agreement with City of Kerrville concerning subdivision rules 14 and regulations in the ETJ 164 15 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on professional printing of FY 2009-2010 budget book 174 16 1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 17 determine whether or not Volunteer Fire Depts./ Kerr County can deliver water to citizens in 18 need of water due to wells running dry 188 19 4.1 Pay Bills 193 4.2 Budget Amendments 195 20 4.3 Late Bills --- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 200 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 22 Assignments 201 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 203 23 1.29 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 24 regarding personnel issue (Executive Session) 207 25 --- Adjourned 209 5 1 On Monday, July 13, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this 8 regularly scheduled meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners 9 Court posted and scheduled for this time and date, Monday, 10 July 13, 2009, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. Commissioner 11 Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will everyone please join me in 13 a moment of prayer followed by the pledge? 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 17 heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel 18 free to come forward and tell us what's on your mind at this 19 time. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would 20 prefer that you fill out a participation form. There should 21 be some located at the back of the room. It's not absolutely 22 essential that you do that, but it helps me to understand 23 that there are folks that wish to be heard on an item. But 24 if we get to an agenda item that you wish to be heard on and 25 you haven't filed a participation form, that's fine. Just 7-13-09 6 1 get my attention in some manner and I'll give you the 2 opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's any 3 member of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard 4 on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come forward 5 and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one coming 6 forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Letz? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just a few words about 8 the drought. I mean, it's obviously as bad as it's been 9 since the '50's, certainly. I was at a meeting at U.G.R.A. 10 the other day; they said if we don't get any rainfall, they 11 anticipate the Guadalupe will quit running in Comfort late -- 12 sometime late this month, early next month, which -- first 13 time that's happened since the '50's. Everyone needs to 14 conserve a little bit, do what they can. Kerrville's 15 probably going into Stage 3 drought restrictions this month, 16 looks like, unless we get some significant rains. That means 17 no landscape watering at all. It's their decision. I talked 18 to the City Manager about that a little bit; I think they 19 might want to relook at that, but not during the current 20 situation. So, anyway, it's a -- it'll have an impact on a 21 lot of people's lives. Construction projects are going to be 22 altered a little bit if that does happen. Our Road and 23 Bridge Department's going to have, you know, their situation 24 altered a little bit. I think we may want to look at the 25 County looking at the Little League well from the standpoint 7-13-09 7 1 of -- from an emergency standpoint, hooking it up for some 2 use by Road and Bridge or others that may -- you know, we may 3 see the need to help out the public. So, that's a -- we're 4 fortunate that the groundwater situation is better than the 5 surface water situation. Aquifers, while they're falling 6 rapidly, they're -- it's not nearly at the level of the 7 surface water situation. Anyway, that's it. Hope we get 8 some rain. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't -- I think we got a 12 lengthy agenda. We do have new signs up at Ingram Lake. 13 There was kind of a coordinated effort between the 14 Maintenance and Road and Bridge to get those done, and I went 15 out and helped set one of them the other day, and Road and 16 Bridge people put the other one up. Got a couple new buoys 17 in, no-wake buoys up there to replace the old ones that you 18 couldn't read. One of them washed away. Anyway, things at 19 the lake seem to be a little bit better. Parks and Wildlife 20 has been out there in a boat on the lake a couple times. I 21 don't know if they've written any citations, but it appears 22 that things are better than they have been, and people are 23 using the trash cans a little bit more than what they were. 24 We had a big trash problem, so maybe the signage is working. 25 It was very inexpensive, didn't take much money or time to 7-13-09 8 1 get it done, and Kelly at Road and Bridge did all the 2 lettering and everything, and Tim then painted the background 3 and a Road and Bridge guy and myself went out, installed 4 them. Anyway, that, and just the -- the drought is -- it's 5 serious, and we -- we have an item on the agenda that I 6 placed on there; we'll talk about that later. That's it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm -- I wanted -- I 9 see Commissioner Williams has a really important issue here, 10 and I'm going to pass my time over to him. Thank you, 11 though. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I was just going to 15 tell the Court about the good time we had at Center Point on 16 Saturday, the annual down-home parade where the whole 17 community turns out, and it's typically -- typically little 18 town Texas, and I got to be a part of it. A lot of people 19 had a good time, and followed by the fireman's barbecue, 20 which is their annual fundraiser. I was sitting in my easy 21 chair one night reading the current edition of Texas Highway, 22 and I about fell out of my chair when I turned to Page 10, 23 and there's a big -- big story about Dave's Place on the 24 river. The Court remembers Dave, who -- we had some 25 environmental concerns and problems. And I'm pleased that 7-13-09 9 1 they got the publicity and that he straightened out his 2 problems before the magazine hit the newsstand. 3 Just a follow-up on what Commissioner Letz is 4 talking about with respect to U.G.R.A. He and I both 5 attended their workshop on Friday, and it was a good workshop 6 in which they briefed -- they've got so many new board 7 members, they spent a good bit of time getting some of their 8 folks up to speed on their current issues. But the more -- 9 even of more importance than that, the topics of what they're 10 involved in and what they want to continue to be involved in 11 in the future, and so there's -- there was a good bit of 12 discussion that took place over there about the Center Point 13 wastewater and companion water project, and whether or not 14 they're going to be able to find their way clear or see fit 15 to continue with that project. And then a very enlightening 16 discussion about their -- their diversion permit, the 17 subordination aspects of it, the flow control aspects of it, 18 and the diversion points aspects of it and so forth. And, 19 really, what it boils down to is, as a result of nonaction in 20 the Legislature, now that permit again is what it was 21 intended originally to be, for the beneficial use of people 22 outside the city limits of -- of Kerrville, so for all people 23 in the county, wherever, and so far as I'm concerned, that's 24 good news. Now, the question is, how do we put it -- how 25 does it get put to use as quickly as possible, and the most 7-13-09 10 1 cost-effective way? So, it was a good discussion. Stayed 2 around and listened, asked questions and listened to their 3 consultants, and we'll see what happens. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Some of you may have read over the 7 last few days or week or so about the activities of our 4-H 8 people, some competitions they've been entered into. These 9 are mainly national competitions. I think it points out 10 the -- not only the need, but the success locally of our 4-H 11 programs. This is something that really impacts the youth of 12 our community. We hear repeatedly that there's nothing for 13 children to do, there's nothing for kids to do here; they're 14 always getting into trouble and on and on and on. There are 15 good things for these children to do. The 4-H has a fabulous 16 program. They've got a significant number of children in the 17 program. I don't want to steal Roy's thunder; I think he's 18 going to be giving us a report with regard to some of the 19 Agri-Life programs here a little bit later, and hopefully 20 he'll mention some of the success that those 4-H programs 21 have had that are administered in conjunction with his 22 office. But 4-H is a fantastic model for these kiddoes to 23 get involved in, and it really impacts their life on a 24 permanent basis. So, thank these kiddoes for the work they 25 do, and the adult leaders that are involved. There's a whole 7-13-09 11 1 lot of them. Most of them are volunteers. But we appreciate 2 their work. Let's get on with our agenda. The first item on 3 the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 4 action to approve an updated Kerr County Indigent Health Care 5 policy scheduled to go into effect on September 1, 2009. 6 Ms. Lavender? 7 MS. LAVENDER: Good morning. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning. 10 MS. LAVENDER: Can you believe it's already been 10 11 months since we started this program? And we're moving along 12 real well down there. I think you all have been keeping up 13 with the budgetary end of it fairly regularly. This policy 14 is not going to be dated in terms of it will last from one 15 day to another day; this will become our permanent policy, 16 and from here on out, we'll just -- if we see changes in 17 state law or, you know, find things that we need to do, but 18 we don't need to come back all the time. You know, it's 19 taken us a little while to morph this thing, you know, to 20 what we want. Most of the changes are simply clarifications 21 or additions or rewording of things. We did add some -- what 22 I would call behavioral objectives into this. In going to 23 workshops, Dawn has found that a lot of the other counties 24 that have indigent health have behavioral objectives or 25 behavioral requirements with their policy, and so we kind of 7-13-09 12 1 borrowed and put them in. I would entertain any questions 2 that you might have about any of it, and otherwise ask that 3 you approve it. And it'll go into effect 1st of September, 4 when our new budget year starts. And, far as I know, this is 5 the last time we'll need to come to you any time with any 6 significant things. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example here, I see in 8 red -- 9 MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the words "State-issued 11 photo." You are -- you are requiring a Texas driver's 12 license? 13 MS. LAVENDER: Or Texas I.D. card. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State-issued photo I.D. 15 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, the words "State-issued 17 photo," those are brand-new words. 18 MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm. That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And is that something that 20 came from this last Legislature? 21 MS. LAVENDER: I don't know that it came from the 22 Legislature, but it's come from a lot of the other policies 23 we've reviewed. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 25 MS. LAVENDER: Actually, the Legislature didn't do 7-13-09 13 1 anything. They had several bills, like to increase the 2 maximum from 30,000 to 50,000 or 60,000 that we would pay out 3 a year, and some other things, but none of it came out of 4 committee and was approved that we know of. We've kind of 5 been following it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's amazing that we can 7 require -- I'm thrilled to death to see this, that they can. 8 MS. LAVENDER: Well, most people can get a Texas 9 I.D. card without a problem, so -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we require some kind 11 of -- 12 MS. LAVENDER: We've always required a photo I.D. 13 of some sort, but not a State-issued one. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- proof of who you are, and 15 it's really not that way with the voters bunch. But I'm 16 thrilled to see this, anyway. Let's go ahead. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rosa, the approved Kerr 18 County medical provider's office, that could be what, anybody 19 on our list? 20 MS. LAVENDER: Well, the -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any provider on our list? 22 MS. LAVENDER: Right. Actually, the -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or a specific one? 24 MS. LAVENDER: No, not a specific one. Actually, 25 what we -- what we have in our policy is that we want them to 7-13-09 14 1 see Kerr County medical providers when at all possible, and 2 if they go out of the county, they have to be recommended to 3 an out-of-county provider. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MS. LAVENDER: Like, if they had to have heart 6 surgery or, you know, had brain injuries or something, we 7 don't have people here that do that, and so we would -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 MS. LAVENDER: But we want someone here connected 10 to it so that they have primary care when they come home, 11 back to the County. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure I want to ask the 13 question -- or want to hear the answer, but on the residency 14 requirement, what about illegal aliens? 15 MS. LAVENDER: We have -- we have people; we cannot 16 deny them coverage. That's -- we do not have very many on 17 the program now. There's very few. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but if they're -- 19 MS. LAVENDER: We're not anywhere close to Hidalgo 20 County and some of these other counties in south Texas that 21 have a large number of illegal -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if they're illegal, could 23 be any county, but if they live here, they're covered. 24 MS. LAVENDER: And most of them have been here -- 25 the ones that we have are longtime people who already have an 7-13-09 15 1 I.D. card; some of them have driver's licenses. But, no, we 2 cannot deny them if they're illegal. We can ask for these 3 things, but we can't deny. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lavender, looking on page -- 6 it's going to be on Page 3 of the draft, about the middle of 7 the page, when we're talking about folks who are charged with 8 controlled substance offenses, I think there needs to be some 9 additional language beginning with the last sentence, "Client 10 will be denied prescription benefits beginning the date he or 11 she is..." You've got, "placed on probation." 12 MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That could be adjudicated or 14 nonadjudicated, or it could be that they're adjudicated and 15 not placed on probation, but incarcerated. 16 MS. LAVENDER: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So I think we need to state, "he or 18 she is adjudicated or placed on probation, and continuing 19 from that date until two years from the date of the end of 20 the adjudication or probation period." 21 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. We worked on this -- this 22 paragraph in there, we spent hours on. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And then towards the tail end, 24 "release date from Department of Criminal Justice or County 25 Jail." 7-13-09 16 1 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Because we have the same effect if 3 they're incarcerated locally. 4 MS. LAVENDER: All right, got it. We can do that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Further on down, two paragraphs 6 down, is it pertinent if, under Subsection (d), if they are 7 denied Medicaid, S.N.A.P., T.A.N.F., or S.S.I. benefits? 8 MS. LAVENDER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So we should modify that for the 10 receipt of or denial -- receipt or denial of -- 11 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- any of those. Let me make a 13 suggestion on the following page, a language clean-up that 14 will also clarify, I think, under KCIHP, the next to the last 15 one. 16 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The modified language, "will not 18 cover smoking cessation, erectile dysfunction, diabetic 19 supplies or other" -- and then you've added "or weight loss 20 medications." 21 MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: After "diabetic supplies," comma, 23 "weight loss or other optional medications." 24 MS. LAVENDER: But the diabetic supplies, we cover. 25 It's the diabetic supplies that are -- that are 7-13-09 17 1 over-the-counter that we don't cover. If it's insulin, we 2 cover it. We don't cover the needles or the test strips. 3 There's the difference. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the way it's worded here now, 5 diabetic supplies or other optional medications available 6 either by prescription or over the counter. 7 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. Okay, you're right. My bad. 8 All right. So, move "weight loss medications" up to -- okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Where it's after diabetic supplies. 10 MS. LAVENDER: All right, we can do that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And if you've got to take diabetic 12 supplies off there, and provide that over-the-counter 13 diabetic supplies are not covered as a separate sentence, and 14 take it out of there. 15 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? 17 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's more of a -- those are the 19 only suggestions that I have. 20 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Just to clarify, but I appreciate 22 your work on that policy. I think the work that you and 23 Ms. Lantz have done down there has had a significant impact 24 upon the budgetary requirements placed upon this county for 25 indigent health care requirements, and I've repeatedly told 7-13-09 18 1 you and her, I appreciate your work. 2 MS. LAVENDER: Well, she's very good, and I think 3 we were very, very, very lucky to find her when we were ready 4 to hire someone. She's taken this on as a real challenge, 5 and some of the people we deal with are pretty challenging. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I know some of the language 7 you've got in there, I -- I hope it's permissible. It seems 8 that -- you know, I know you've got people that are 9 frustrated, but frustration is one thing. Combativeness is 10 something else. 11 MS. LAVENDER: Exactly. And we've had to have the 12 bailiff down there a couple of times, so, you know, it's 13 good. We have a button to push, and so we just want to try 14 to -- try to avoid any situations if we can. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right at the beginning in 16 italics, you've got policy adopted by the Court at the 17 regular meeting in July. Do you need to insert a date there? 18 MS. LAVENDER: No. This is a regular meeting, and 19 then your second meeting is the special meeting. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm saying maybe you need 21 to put the date in. 22 MS. LAVENDER: Oh, we can do that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Indigent Health Care 7-13-09 19 1 policy as proposed and amended by the Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 4 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 9 very much, Ms. Lavender. 10 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 2; consider, 12 discuss, and approve appointment of election judges and 13 alternates for a term of one year in accordance with Texas 14 Election Code, Section 32. Ms. Alford? 15 MS. ALFORD: Morning. This is a yearly appointment 16 of judges and alternate judges that are submitted to us by 17 both parties. The Republican party submits the judges, and 18 Democratic party submits the alternate judges. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's been the system? I suppose 20 the dominant local party selects the -- 21 MS. ALFORD: The judges. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- judges, and the minority party 23 selects the alternates? 24 MS. ALFORD: That's correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And they're comfortable with that 7-13-09 20 1 and have done that for years? 2 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 8 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 13 Item 3; consider, discuss, and approve and/or consolidation 14 of the polling locations in accordance with Chapter 43 of the 15 Texas Election Code. This is for the Constitutional 16 amendments election this November; is that correct? 17 MS. ALFORD: That's correct, yes, sir. We'd like 18 to consolidate to four different precincts, with early voting 19 being at the Cailloux Center. I -- right now, all I know is 20 there's, like, ten amendments. There probably are more, but 21 that's what I've seen. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: My recollection here, we have done 23 this generally in the off election years. 24 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: When there were elections of this 7-13-09 21 1 type. And we've provided only one regular polling place for 2 each precinct, have we not? 3 MS. ALFORD: Correct, yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Not being these exactly? 5 MS. ALFORD: Exactly, right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Only one per precinct? 7 MS. ALFORD: Right, one per precinct for off years, 8 to cut down -- the turnout isn't as large as it is in the 9 general elections and primaries. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm fine with mine. Move 11 approval. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 20 ma'am. 21 MS. ALFORD: Uh-huh. Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go to Item 4; consider, 23 discuss, and take appropriate action confirming enforcement 24 of Kerr County Rabies and Animal Control order adopted August 25 the 11th, 1997, requiring animals brought into Flat Rock Lake 7-13-09 22 1 Park to be leashed at all times when in the park, and further 2 restricts all animals to the upper portion of the park 3 located to the east of Third Creek. Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'd like to start 5 this discussion with a report from Animal Control Department 6 head, Janie Roman Whitt, and then I'd like to ask Mr. Bollier 7 to also follow Ms. Whitt and give us a report from the 8 Maintenance perspective. And we have a visitor in the 9 audience, Shelly Rose, who can follow those two and give us 10 an update on her experiences, if it pleases the Court. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Roman -- Whitt, excuse me. I'll 12 get used to that one of these days. 13 MS. WHITT: That's okay, I'm still getting used to 14 it myself. I have several concerns. One, of course, is 15 public safety. In the last month, I've had two animal bites 16 occur at the park. One was June 10th. Of course, I can't 17 give the name of the person that was bit. This person would 18 never have known to report it to us had he not gone to the 19 V.A. Hospital. The V.A. Hospital is required -- or any 20 hospital is required by law to contact us and let us know of 21 an animal bite. This was a stray, unleashed dog. I mean, it 22 was just -- we don't know that it was stray; it was an 23 unleashed dog. We have to call it a stray because we -- we 24 couldn't find an owner. This person did have to undergo 25 rabies treatment, which is painful and very expensive. Then 7-13-09 23 1 on July 6th, we had another animal bite. The owner of the 2 dog left, so it took us about -- five hours, Marc? About 3 five hours to be able to -- I mean, we worked on this pretty 4 much half the day trying to find the owner of the dog, and we 5 did finally find the owner and quarantine the dog. But I'm 6 also getting reports from my officers of the dogs not being 7 under the direct control of the owners. When you have two 8 bites in a month, and then we have my officers going out and 9 patrolling the park, and they're coming back and telling me 10 that they've got one dog at the end of the park or, you know, 11 more than one dog at the end of the park, and the owners are 12 at the other end, in our opinion, that's not under the direct 13 control of the owner. Marc Allen had an incident -- well, 14 he's had several incidents, but he did have one incident 15 occur this morning. Do you want to -- 16 MR. ALLEN: Well, this morning, I -- I went by the 17 park at a quarter till 8:00, and when I was pulling in, there 18 were four people walking dogs. Two of them were on leash, 19 and there were three big dogs, approximately 60-, 70-pound 20 dogs. When I came around one end of the parking, they're on 21 the other side, and there was a long-haired white dog that 22 was about 40 or 50 yards behind the people walking. Nobody's 23 even watching that dog; it's just kind of doing its own 24 thing. So, I pull on around, and one of the ladies flagged 25 me down and stopped me, and she said, "Well, you know, you 7-13-09 24 1 told me a long time ago I could bring my dogs over here. Now 2 you're all wanting to shut this down." I explained to her; I 3 said, "I think they just want to put the dogs on leashes so 4 they're under your control." And she had two dogs that were 5 about 40 yards in front of her. And I said, "See, like these 6 dogs over here, they're not under anybody's control." And 7 she said, "Yes, they are," and she yelled at them, and they 8 didn't budge. So, I mean, that was this morning. And she, 9 you know, got a little argumentative and she said, "Just 10 wait, wait," and called them again. And they hesitated a 11 second, and one of them started to come towards us, and then 12 the other one followed it. Well, when it got up to the car, 13 it didn't even have its rabies tags on it; it had personal 14 tags. And I said, "Well, where's your rabies tags?" Like 15 the sign says, you're supposed to have that. "Well, they're 16 in my car." Well, that's not what the sign says. And if 17 they're not under your control -- 18 MS. WHITT: The law does require for them to be 19 wearing their collars and tags, and to be registered. It 20 doesn't do us or anyone a bit of good if the tags are -- are 21 in the car. We've also been out there -- I personally have 22 been out there numerous times on my lunch break. On 23 weekends, my husband and I like to go fishing. I had to 24 break up -- and Commissioner Williams and I had discussed 25 this months and months ago. I had to break up a dogfight, 7-13-09 25 1 and I reminded him of that again last week. I had to break 2 up a dogfight on my -- on my own time because this little 3 lady couldn't -- there was no way she could separate the 4 dogs. My officers and I personally have also seen dogs 5 chasing squirrels, chasing ducks, and that -- you know, 6 that's what's going to happen if these dogs are not on 7 leashes. I think two bites in less than a month, that's 8 serious. 9 MR. ALLEN: Let me finish my story. 10 MS. WHITT: Oh. 11 MR. ALLEN: As I was pulling away this morning, I 12 got all the way to the end of the park, and those three 13 dogs -- I looked in my rearview mirror; it looked like they 14 were chasing my truck. And as I got all the way to the end, 15 I looked, and they were all the way across the park and 16 they're chasing squirrels up the tree. You know, I don't 17 know how that could be under anybody's direct control there. 18 So, I think we have a real problem there. So, that's the end 19 of my story. 20 MS. WHITT: I also have -- there was also an 21 incident that occurred Friday that I was just made aware of 22 just ten minutes ago from Laurinda Boyd. 23 MS. BOYD: We had our 4-H fishing derby there on 24 Friday morning. It's just a once-a-year deal that we do, and 25 we had about 84 kids from the local day care centers, 26 of 7-13-09 26 1 my 4-H'ers, and they just partner with the kids and fish, and 2 we congregate down at that -- I don't even know if you call 3 it a certain area, but where the turnaround -- the circle by 4 that big tree is, and there was several people walking with 5 their dogs. And most of them, you know, they were not on 6 leashes and they were with their people, you know, just kind 7 of walking in their area. I just said, "Hey, we're having a 8 special event; we'll be through by noon," and they were real 9 courteous and nice. One lady -- there was a kind of a yellow 10 lab-looking dog that came down, and he was up in the middle 11 of the kids, wouldn't go on. And -- and I kept trying to 12 find the owner. Well, finally, I grabbed him by the collar 13 and started just walking up the road. Well, she was 14 three-quarters of the way back up towards the boat ramp deal. 15 And I told her, I said, you know, "I'm sorry, but we're 16 having a youth event right now, if you wouldn't mind just, 17 you know, taking control of your dog." "Well, we don't have 18 to have them on leashes." I said, "Well, I understand that, 19 but," I said, "you know, he can't be roaming amongst the 20 kids." "He doesn't bite. I know he doesn't bite." And I 21 said, "Well, it doesn't matter. Something can happen." Any 22 animal will bite if they're -- you know, something happens. 23 So, anyway, she wasn't real friendly, but she did finally 24 take her dog. Well, then she came back down with the yellow 25 one on the leash, walking up in the middle of all of us, with 7-13-09 27 1 the other dog not on the leash. Now, I mean, she kind of was 2 just being a little -- you know. Anyway -- but, you know, 3 they're definitely not being controlled. There -- I mean, 4 there's a difference between having the dog right with you 5 and letting them roam halfway across the park, you know. So, 6 anyway -- and we had a great fishing day. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this being under 8 control, this issue, that's obviously some kind of state law. 9 And -- 10 MS. WHITT: No. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No? 12 MS. WHITT: No, that's the county order. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the county 14 ordinance -- not an ordinance. But what does being "under 15 control" mean? I mean, can -- can I be -- can my dog be 16 200 yards away from me and me still be under control? What 17 does that mean? 18 MS. WHITT: Well, I would think -- and, Rex, 19 correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that under your 20 effective control would mean that if you call your dog, your 21 dog's going to come. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 MR. EMERSON: Buster, under Subsection 4.1(a) of 24 the county order, it says the owner or custodian of each dog 25 or cat shall restrain the animal and prevent them from 7-13-09 28 1 running at large. That's pretty clear cut. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Running at large as 3 opposed to running at small? 4 MR. EMERSON: I guess so. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 6 MS. WHITT: I just -- we've had numerous problems 7 in the past, you know, and they -- they come in spurts. I 8 know that my officers have actually chased dogs that have 9 actually been in the park, and they leave the park property 10 and they're actually chasing them over by Maldonado's Nursery 11 onto Highway 27, which is in the city. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me -- the term 13 "restrained" is defined in the Commissioners Court order. It 14 says it's either physically restrained by leash, fence, pen, 15 or other device; i.e. -- or is physically located on the 16 property of the owner or custodian, or supervised by and 17 under the direct control of the owner or custodian. When I 18 say direct control and -- "supervised by and under the direct 19 control," I think that connotes some degree of nearness. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: It does to me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it does to me, too. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So your recommendation, Janie, 24 is that we require that all dogs be leashed in the county? 25 MS. WHITT: Correct. 7-13-09 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MS. WHITT: That's my recommendation. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Janie. The 5 other issue that's constantly being brought to my attention 6 is from Mr. Bollier, who is responsible for maintenance of 7 the park with his crew. Tim, take a minute and tell us 8 what's on your mind. 9 MR. BOLLIER: Well, since the last time that we've 10 talked about this, you know, the dog people were asked to 11 keep the parks cleaned up and clean up after themselves. 12 Well, this isn't being done. I'll just say real recently, 13 Commissioner Williams had asked me to unlock the gate. 14 Mr. Odom's bunch has finished the bridge project down there, 15 so I unlocked the gate. Well, next day I go down there to 16 check, and what do I have? Right down the middle of the 17 road, you got -- dog poo, okay? I'll just use "poo." 18 Nobody's cleaning it up. I've got Sonny who goes down there 19 and mows the park, cleans up the park. When he comes back to 20 the Ag Barn, you can spell him coming, and when he gets off 21 the tractor -- (Laughter.) -- when he gets off the tractor, 22 the back of his shirt is covered with -- 23 MS. HYDE: Poo. 24 MR. BOLLIER: -- dog poo, whatever we want to call 25 it, okay? Don't sit -- I mean, they can't sit there and tell 7-13-09 30 1 me they're cleaning it up, and then when I go down to the 2 park and they've got -- right at the front gate, they've got 3 a little doggy bag thing that they can get their bags and 4 carry them -- carry the bags and clean up their dog poo, put 5 it back in the trash can when they leave. Well, this -- this 6 container, I've gotten out of the truck; I did it three days 7 in a row, go up there to push and see if it's being used. 8 Well, it's still tight, so that's telling me there isn't no 9 gloves or whatever they want to call them coming out of 10 there. I look down at the trash can; the only thing I see in 11 the trash can are people that are bringing bread sacks or 12 Walmart bags or Walgreen bags and cleaning up their dog poo 13 that way, but these bags aren't being used that's there. And 14 like Janie says and Marc says, I see the dogs all the way at 15 the end of park. People aren't keeping their dogs under 16 control. People can't -- I've said this before. People 17 can't even enjoy the county park because of the dogs. The 18 dogs are taking over. Something needs to be done. I mean, 19 it's a shame when you got taxpayers out there that wants to 20 come fishing out at the park, and they can't because they -- 21 you've got this dog stuff all over the place. Like Laurinda 22 says, it's a shame you can't even take the 4-H kids down 23 there; you got dogs in the middle of people. You know, 24 that's not right. And as far as the clean-up process, I -- 25 my guys, when I ask them to go clean up the park, they just 7-13-09 31 1 look at me and go, "Hmm." You know, they don't want to go 2 down there any more. So, you know, I can sit up here and 3 talk forever, but the park needs -- something needs to be 4 done with the dogs. The dogs need to have their own place. 5 I mean, I have two dogs at home. I love my dogs, but I take 6 care of my dogs. And, you know, I don't -- you know, and so 7 if you're not going to take care of your dogs, I'd just 8 appreciate if they leave them at home. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Tim. Judge, the 10 other person that I'd like to address the Court for a minute 11 would be Shelly Rose, and Shelly, if you'll come to the 12 podium, please, and identify yourself. And this is the lady 13 who spent some time with me on Friday, I think, or Thursday, 14 whichever, and we discussed her incident. Shelly, I would 15 like to ask you to keep your comments as concise as possible. 16 MS. ROSE: Yes, sir, I sure will. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we have a long 18 agenda, and there are other people who want to speak to this 19 issue. 20 MS. ROSE: Yes, sir. Good morning. My name is 21 Shelly Rose, and thank you all very much for inviting me to 22 come and speak today. I did want to come in person, 'cause I 23 believe it's a relevant and very important issue for all of 24 us, and not just my own personal experience. I want to let 25 you know that I -- in response to what Janie said, I only 7-13-09 32 1 called Animal Control myself after several encounters there 2 in the park, as a preventive -- a future preventive from my 3 dog being attacked, and myself as well, because I was bitten 4 on the second encounter. And I didn't know that they had to 5 be informed on the day that I was bitten, which was Monday 6 following July 4th. They happened to be closed for the -- 7 for the holiday weekend; they took Monday off rather than 8 Friday. And so, on the -- and I went in there to see what 9 intercession they would be able to provide in the face of 10 these ongoing uncontrolled dog attacks. 11 And the first day that I encountered this situation 12 was on Sunday over the 4th of July weekend, and a woman's dog 13 did come and rush at my dog. Well, my dog's bigger, but that 14 doesn't really mean anything. She's got all of her shots, 15 tags, wears them all the time, is leashed every time that 16 she's out in public. She's never off-leash. And when 17 someone else's uncontrolled dog rushes at you, you're a 18 sitting duck there; there's nothing to do. And I kind of 19 reeled my dog in as short as I could on the leash and tried 20 to pull her away, but the little dog ran, like, right into 21 her mouth, and so a dogfight ensued. And when I saw her 22 rushing towards me, I saw the woman that -- from whom she 23 ran, and I was calling over to her, "Call your dog. Call 24 your dog. Please control your dog." And she was -- just 25 didn't. And whether she called him or not, there was really 7-13-09 33 1 I don't think any effort on her part to control her dog. 2 This fight ensued. I did manage to say to her, "You really 3 need to control your dog," and that was kind of the end of 4 the first day. 5 The second day I went back again with my dog -- and 6 I want to say this, too. I have been walking her in the 7 afternoons after things cool down a little bit. She's a 8 Siberian husky, you know; she's got this thick fur and she 9 can't go out and tolerate the heat during the day. And in 10 defense of the, I think, majority or large number of dog 11 owners, I found the people in the park in the evening were 12 wonderful people, responsible, very courteous amongst 13 themselves with their dogs. My dog swims in the river with 14 the kids. She's a beautiful dog, and everyone approaches her 15 and pets her. She's just a -- a wonderful dog. And people 16 would have their dogs running free, but they were -- seemed 17 to be watching them, in the afternoon. Afternoon. And they 18 would call, and the dog would stop and go back to the owner, 19 and I didn't have a problem. And only when I started walking 20 her in the mornings, because in the evenings -- it just 21 wasn't cooling down in the evenings, so I got up in the 22 morning real early to take her down, and that's when this 23 situation occurred with these people. 24 I didn't know at the time, just kind of my 25 perceptions of what was going on around me; it seemed like 7-13-09 34 1 there was a large number of them, and then there was me. And 2 I was following the law, my dog was following the law, yet 3 still we were kind of victimized by what was going on. I 4 didn't realize that the first day; I thought it was kind of a 5 random thing with this woman, and then I went back the second 6 day, and the same woman and the same dog and the same 7 situation. There was a considerable distance between us, and 8 she had the opportunity -- we all saw each other. She did 9 not put a leash on her dog or make any attempt to control 10 him. He came rushing again right into my dog's mouth. 11 Another dogfight that ended up in me getting a dog bite. 12 And, again, I was calling to her, "Call your dog, call your 13 dog." And, you know, she didn't. It was at that point in 14 time -- I kind of don't want to mix up issues, but I 15 understand there are jurisdictional issues, county and city, 16 down there at the park. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not jurisdiction over the 18 park, as such. Only -- only some geographical boundaries. 19 The boat ramp is not in the -- is in the city limits, I 20 think, technically, and the rest of the park is not. 21 MS. ROSE: Yes, sir. And I understood subsequent 22 to all of this that dogs in that little slice of 23 City-controlled property right there at the -- the boat ramp 24 was Kerrville P.D. jurisdiction, and then everything on the 25 side of this little fence the major length of the park was 7-13-09 35 1 county. So, all of that I didn't know at the time. But, at 2 any rate, after this second dog attack, and when I got bit, I 3 was attempting to have some communication from this woman 4 that, you know, I was bit and something needed to be done 5 about it, and then appeared this mystery man, who was -- 6 after the attack, was walking with her the length of the 7 park. They hastily put her in her automobile, and off she 8 went. And I tied up my dog and started to run after this car 9 to get the license plate number. I had every intention of 10 going to Kerrville P.D. and saying, "What do I do?" I didn't 11 really know about Animal Control or what my options for my 12 safety and the safety of my dog were. And she drove out of 13 the park, and then there was this man, and he was in between 14 my pickup and my dog that I had tied. And as I passed him up 15 to go get my dog -- and I thought he's a resource for finding 16 this woman, and when I asked him did he know her, he just 17 unleashed a barrage of curses at me that were just absolutely 18 startling. This terrible altercation occurred. 19 The woman -- I don't want to forget to say this -- 20 at this second attack, told me that my dog was vicious. Her 21 dog attacked mine twice, yet my dog's vicious. And that I 22 was stupid for bringing a vicious dog to that park, all this 23 kind of terrible stuff. At any rate, this altercation with 24 the man occurred at the boat ramp, which is city. And when I 25 was trying to say, "Look, I'm bitten and I need to -- if you 7-13-09 36 1 know that woman, you know, we need to get in touch with her." 2 And this cursing went on. He shoved me, raised this huge 3 stick that he was carrying that was at least that tall and 4 that big around, and raised it and threatened me with it. 5 And I at that time took my cell phone out of my pocket and 6 dialed 911, and the Sheriff's Department came; several 7 Kerrville P.D. units came into the park. By that time, he 8 had walked away from me and was a distance away from me. The 9 investigation that was done at that time, even though I did 10 show my leg to the Sheriff's officer who approached me first, 11 and another Kerrville P.D. officer, apparently the officer in 12 charge of the investigation that morning, that information 13 didn't get transmitted to him. 14 And also, I was told because there were no 15 witnesses in this situation, that the officer said the only 16 choice that he had was either to let us both go or arrest us 17 both. I mean, it just was really kind of a bit of a fiasco. 18 And I've got a diabetic dog that I need to get her home and 19 give her her shots, and I'm sitting there going, "Let's see, 20 do I want to be arrested this morning or what?" And, at any 21 rate, it was not very well handled. I told the officer on 22 the scene that although I was certainly not looking to -- to 23 have this thing continue on, that I wasn't happy with how 24 things had been conducted, because nothing was resolved. I 25 was still at risk. My dog was still at risk, and the whole 7-13-09 37 1 thing was only going to repeat itself, and I was not going to 2 just leave it at that. I was told that I was free to do 3 anything I wanted to do, and -- and so I did. The next day, 4 Tuesday, when Animal Control opened up, I went there and 5 spoke with Janie and spoke with Marc, showed them my leg, and 6 they said that they had to, by law, make a dog bite report, 7 and that started having to get in touch with the police 8 officials to contact this man to contact that woman to get to 9 the dog that -- which is now quarantined on account of this 10 bite. And then this -- the civil matter separated from the 11 dog bite matter, and all of this is like a cat and a dog in a 12 gunny sack. And all I did was come down there to walk my 13 dog, and I feel very victimized, because I'm following the 14 law, my dog is following the law. She's a wonderful dog, and 15 yet here we still are hanging in the breeze here with no 16 ability to -- to feel safe, and in a city park. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 18 MS. ROSE: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can appreciate that most 20 of the people who are here today attending because of this 21 issue are those who are responsible and have done their best 22 to do a good job with their respective -- restraining their 23 animals, but the fact remains that we still have a problem. 24 A couple other things I want to point out to the Court, and 25 then I'm sure there are others that want to talk about it. 7-13-09 38 1 The County Attorney can correct me if I'm incorrect, but it 2 seems to me that the County probably has a liability issue 3 here with an order on its books that calls for restraint, and 4 not enforcing that order, and then people get bitten; then 5 that certainly gives somebody the notion that the County has 6 a responsibility. Perhaps; I don't know. But anyhow, we put 7 that out there for whatever it's worth. 8 Second thing is, Mr. Odom and his people have done 9 a very fine job of opening up the other section of the park. 10 For those of you who haven't been there, the road leading to 11 the bridge over Third Creek is -- is open, and Leonard and 12 his folks have dressed up the area leading up to the bridge. 13 It's very passable and very good, and have fixed the egress 14 part going into the new section of the park so that the 15 incline is not as steep as it was, and is very passable. 16 There's cabling up there. There's a parking area on the new 17 section of the park. And, as the Court knows, the agenda 18 item calls for restricting animals to that section of the 19 park east of Third Creek. There probably are some other 20 people who want to talk about it, Judge. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court have 22 any comments to make before we have the public participation? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have comments after. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Mr. Palmer? 25 MR. PALMER: Yes. 7-13-09 39 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You filed a participation form. If 2 you'll come forward and tell us your name and address, tell 3 us what's on your mind. 4 MR. PALMER: Can I wait and let the others talk 5 before me? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not going to play that game, 7 sir. 8 MS. TATUM: I simply have to go. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not going to get into wanting to 10 go after this one and -- if you got something to say, come 11 tell us. 12 MR. PALMER: I'm just doing it as a courtesy, 13 Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's a courtesy for you to be 15 able to speak, Mr. Palmer. And -- 16 MR. PALMER: I can speak. I just wanted to let 17 somebody speak before me. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got 28 agenda items here that 19 we need to get through. 20 MR. PALMER: That's quite a few. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And a lot of this -- a lot of this 22 opening up of the park, as I recall, was done at your behest 23 earlier. 24 MR. PALMER: Well, be that as it may, I first 25 wanted to commend Mr. Williams for calling me on Thursday and 7-13-09 40 1 giving me a heads-up on this meeting, and letting me know 2 that -- that y'all were going to be trying to get this to be 3 a -- to get rid of our off-leash status. I don't know if you 4 remember, but back in 2008, a few months after the 5 Commissioners agreed to let us go, let us be on-leash, I came 6 by your office for a meeting. And it's just been a couple of 7 months afterwards, and so I -- I came by to find out how 8 things were going at the park, and you said, "Mr. Palmer, the 9 park is dirty. We're going to have to consider putting it on 10 the agenda to close it." And as we were sitting there, your 11 maintenance man walked in and said the park's in better shape 12 than it's ever been in -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was then and this is 14 now. 15 MR. PALMER: -- and it looks better than it's ever 16 been in. And then you said, "Oh, all right. Nevermind, 17 Mr. Palmer." Well, at that time, you let me know that you 18 were going to complain about the park no matter what was 19 going on. You were listening -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Palmer -- time out. 21 Just a second, Mr. Palmer. 22 MR. PALMER: No, let me finish. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer, if you've got further 24 comments to make about the agenda item, let's talk about 25 that. 7-13-09 41 1 MR. PALMER: Well, I am talking about the park. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you got some comments to make 3 about on or off leash, or restricting to -- to the portion of 4 the park east of Third Creek? 5 MR. PALMER: Okay. Anyway, at that time the park 6 was in good shape, but you were telling me it wasn't. I want 7 to say that there's much been made about this biting 8 incident. Well, biting occurs whether dogs are on-leash or 9 off-leash. In fact, it's probably more likely to happen that 10 dogs will bite when they're on-leash, because they're trying 11 to protect their owners or they're territorial. So, using 12 that as the reason for getting rid of our off-leash 13 privilege, the argument can easily be made that on-leash, 14 you're going to have as much or more problems; you're likely 15 to. So, I don't think that that's a proper reason to use for 16 taking away our off-leash status. We are the only park in 17 town that has a dog bag dispenser. In other words, we're the 18 only ones who provide -- and those of us who are off-leash 19 are the ones providing this service, not the County. And 20 we're providing the bags at our own expense to help keep that 21 park clean. And you might say, "Well, there is still dog poo 22 being left in the park." Well, there is some, and there 23 always will be, because not everybody's going to use dog 24 bags. But I think if you would go down to Tranquility Park 25 and see the amount of crap in that park, you would know what 7-13-09 42 1 a real problem was. 2 So, this is another thing I don't -- we try to, 3 most of us, keep that park clean. Also, any dogs that -- a 4 dog that might run after a squirrel or dogs that are not -- 5 in other words, you haven't determined what the exact 6 distance is a dog has to be from its owner. So, there's 7 still dogs under control that are maybe 50 yards away or 100 8 yards away. That being the case, if I have suggested this 9 new area that you just opened -- and I think we're all more 10 the on-leash people. If we can continue to follow the 11 ordinance that is in effect now, so -- is that true, that we 12 will be following that -- the same ordinance in that area? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're directing a question 14 to me? 15 MR. PALMER: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The agenda item calls for 17 dogs to be leashed at all times when in the park, and 18 further, to restrict the animals to the upper section -- 19 portion of the park located east of the Third Creek. Does 20 that answer your question? 21 MR. PALMER: No, not exactly, because the -- Order 22 28209 says requires owner to restrain their animals by leash 23 or be supervised by or under the direct control of the owner. 24 This is your own Commissioners Order 28209, and that is what 25 -- if we are given that area, we want to continue to follow 7-13-09 43 1 that ordinance, which is what we are following now. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about the 3 Rabies and Animal Control order, I believe, of 1997. 4 August 11, 1997, adopted by this Court. 5 MR. PALMER: I'm talking about Kerr County 6 Commissioners Order 28209. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 8 restraining -- 9 MR. PALMER: Which is the sign that is at the park. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm talking about the 11 original Rabies and Animal Control order of 1997 that 12 established the leash law, which is state law, by the way, 13 which reaffirms state law in our local order. That's what 14 I'm asking this Court to reaffirm, that we follow state law 15 and follow the directions of our own order, which is to keep 16 animals leashed if they're in the park. 17 MR. PALMER: Your own order says to restrain 18 animals by leash or be supervised by or under the direct 19 control of the owner. That is your own order. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer, I think the issue before 22 the Court is, is the Court going to take under consideration 23 the amendment of that order to delete anything other than 24 either restrained by fence, leash, or other similar device, 25 as in the first part of that definition of restraint. 7-13-09 44 1 MR. PALMER: Well, we're asking -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's what's before the 3 Court right now. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct, Judge. 5 MR. PALMER: What I am proposing is that if we are 6 given that area down there, which will be apart from the rest 7 of the park, which will mainly only be used by us, that we be 8 able to use this same Order 28209 that we use, that we 9 restrain the animals by leash or be supervised by or under 10 the direct control of the owner. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not my -- that was 12 not my intent in the order -- in placing it on the agenda the 13 way it is styled. And what you're saying, of course, does 14 not take into consideration that you are not the only people 15 who use the park. That is a park for the purposes of the 16 general public, for their enjoyment and their benefit, not 17 just dog owners. 18 MR. PALMER: Right. But will you grant us this 19 compromise if you're going to stick us off down the side of 20 the park? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sticking you 22 anywhere. If you get down to that, I'm going to come back 23 and say we're going to stick you outside the park. 24 MR. PALMER: Okay, you can do that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. I can try. 7-13-09 45 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We understand your position, 2 Mr. Palmer. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question for the 4 County Attorney. Are you finished, Mr. Palmer? 5 MR. PALMER: What? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you finished? 7 MR. PALMER: One last thing. I had asked to be 8 scheduled for September the 8th for -- to have Dog Day. I 9 want to withdraw that, because I think that Mr. Williams 10 might try to sabotage that, as he has our off-leash park. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sabotaging 12 anything, Mr. Palmer. 13 MR. PALMER: That's where I come -- that's what I 14 see. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're entitled to your 16 point of view. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer? First -- if you would, 19 please -- if you would, because the Court has previously 20 taken action on that, if you would send us an e-mail or 21 something in writing so that we can have that to document 22 your withdrawal of that request for that event, I'd 23 appreciate it, okay? 24 MR. PALMER: Or a letter? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that'd be fine. 7-13-09 46 1 MR. PALMER: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. You had a question? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, is the state law exactly 4 as we adopted it, where it has that language, "under direct 5 control"? Or did -- is our order slightly different than 6 state law? 7 MR. EMERSON: I don't know. I'll be happy to pull 8 the Health and Safety Code and look. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, since we have a few more 10 -- yeah. It would be -- I'd just -- I'd like to follow state 11 law as much as we can. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Forgive me if I butcher this name. 13 Erdmuthe Jackman? Give your name and address; tell us what's 14 on your mind, please. 15 MS. JACKMAN: Beg your pardon? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll give us your name and 17 address, and then tell us what's on your mind. 18 MS. JACKMAN: E-r-d-m-u-t-h-e, Jackman. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And where do you live? 20 MS. JACKMAN: I have to spell it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And you live on Stone Ridge 22 Drive in Kerrville? 23 MS. JACKMAN: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 25 MS. JACKMAN: I used to go down here in Kerrville 7-13-09 47 1 in the park, sometimes two, three, sometimes four dogs, and 2 take them on the native trail. Not many people come there. 3 I let them off. They listen. Your Animal Control guy this 4 morning said they weren't under control. I called them. One 5 came immediately. The other one, I had -- she's 12 years 6 old, a hunting dog, hard-of-hearing a little bit, so -- she 7 came galloping. I don't know how far -- I think when I call 8 them and they come, they are under control. I let them run 9 in the park. They chase squirrels, yes. They never catch 10 one. My -- my dog, my personal dog, is a German shorthair. 11 She can't bank quick enough to even catch, but she chases 12 them. We have about two acres at home, and the squirrels 13 have gotten so used to her, they tease her. (Laughter.) And 14 you might know it, they -- they will do that. But every 15 other dog that I have taken from the neighborhood, the first 16 thing I have taught them to listen. I have a shock collar. 17 They first go out on a leash to learn their commands. When 18 they know the commands, they are off the leash. They get the 19 collar on. Sure in heck, they think, "Ha, ha, ha, I can go." 20 Little bit of push, they learn different. 21 And I love for my dogs to go down there and run, 22 even the old one. I go early in the morning. I just 23 absolutely -- they play around. They -- yes, they run after 24 the squirrels. They play. Yes, they play and they growl 25 where you think they would bite. If you know a dog, you know 7-13-09 48 1 if it's serious or not. And I always take a cane. If one of 2 them becomes too ornery, ha, ha, ha, they get the message. 3 But have you to know animals, really. And I don't beat them. 4 No way. But I make them obey. I take them up -- where we 5 live, there's a hill up, and I take them down early in the 6 morning, I used to, before I took them out in the park. No 7 leash. They were taught on the leash, and then they 8 better -- and that is what needs -- and, gentlemen, when 9 Sunday morning I went up there and picked up trash after the 10 4th of July, it looked terrible, by the way. But as long as 11 I feel I call them and they come -- yes, I can tell them heel 12 and they will stay there, but that is training. And maybe 13 some people have to be taught how to train their dogs. A dog 14 needs a leader. That's -- and you got to make sure you are 15 the leader. Now, I hate to see us not be able to let the 16 dogs run. And sometimes I have four, but when I call them, 17 they come. And I was not getting smart with that gentleman 18 when I told him the dogs are coming. Yes, I had to sit there 19 and call one of them. He said I was trying to get -- no. I 20 feel when they come, they are under my control, any time I 21 call them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Jackman. 23 MS. JACKMAN: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Margaret Tatum? 25 MS. TATUM: Good morning, and thank you so much for 7-13-09 49 1 allowing me to talk. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Tatum, you live at 214 Wood 3 Trail in Kerrville; is that correct? 4 MS. TATUM: Yes, way over off Goat Creek, so to go 5 to the park, I have to come a long way. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 7 MS. TATUM: Although I've found that when I leave 8 at daybreak, I can get over to the park in 20 minutes, 9 because I can get green lights all the way, and that's when I 10 take my dog to the park. Now, I've been going there most of 11 the time for 11 years, with a dog before this one. This is a 12 rescue dog, a big, beautiful Doberman that I got from 13 Cailloux when she was 14 months old. She's now five and a 14 half. Now, I want to set the record a little straight here. 15 You know, all these years I've been going over there, I've 16 been over there when there are county workers over there, 17 lots of them, you know, trying to keep the park clean. When 18 the prisoners are over there from the county, lots of times 19 they're -- and the Sheriff, and just chatting about dogs one 20 day -- I think he was the Sheriff, 'cause he was in the 21 Sheriff's car; he was either a deputy or a Sheriff -- said to 22 me, "The only thing that we want you to do with these dogs is 23 don't let them go near the prisoners because of liability." 24 Never had a complaint in 11 years with all these dogs. Never 25 had a complaint, I believe, from the county workers, or we 7-13-09 50 1 never ever heard about it. 2 The bags that were put up there, a businessman in 3 Kerrville anonymously, 'cause he thought it was such a 4 wonderful place to take dogs, although he doesn't have one, 5 he donated that. He put up the money to have that -- buy 6 that and have it installed. Now, I don't know where this is 7 coming with the bags aren't taken, but when I'm over there, I 8 see people with bags all the time. And not only that, we 9 keep the park clean. I have to tell you, last Sunday morning 10 I was over there at 6:45, and I thought I'm just going to 11 make a walk around here before I go -- I do both parks -- 12 before I go up into the undeveloped part. And when I walked 13 around, I saw numerous empty plastic bottles, beer cans, even 14 saw an article of clothing that looked quite suspicious. 15 (Laughter.) And toilet paper. I don't know what was in that 16 toilet paper, but I wasn't going to look. Now, that doesn't 17 come from the dogs. And as far as extra poop in the park, 18 you know, there are strays that go in that park. In fact, I 19 found one there that had been hit by a car one time and had 20 to go -- I mean, there are these strays around in that 21 particular area that go in there, and we can't be responsible 22 for those strays, you know. 23 But I heard someone talking this morning -- I was 24 over there at 6:45 this morning, and up in the upper part -- 25 I park on the street and go down where all the rough dirt is, 7-13-09 51 1 and off we go in there. But I heard some people that had 2 come up from the lower park talking about it, and they said, 3 "Well, that's the last time we're going to pick up garbage in 4 a county park and keep it clean the way we do." Because we 5 do pick up that garbage, and we did keep that park clean. 6 Now, I -- I think we're not even thinking -- we're talking 7 about us; we're not talking about dogs, in a way. You know, 8 I have people come in from out of town that I take down 9 there, because I think it's a good advertisement for Kerr 10 County that they see these dogs having a great time playing. 11 It's a very friendly kind of atmosphere. Now, my -- and 12 there -- as someone said, there are plenty of parks in town 13 where you can walk a dog on a leash. Kerrville-Schreiner, 14 Louise Hays, Elm Creek Park, up here at Singing Winds, I've 15 been to them all, and you have to have your dog on a leash. 16 Now, I have a dog that benefits the community, and 17 there are many of us that do this. My dog goes to nursing 18 homes, hospitals, Head Start. She doesn't ask to go there. 19 She doesn't want to go there. In fact, one of the 20 facilities -- nursing facilities we go to, she doesn't really 21 like it. No one could tell but me, because I can tell the 22 way she looks at me, like, "Mom, have we got to be here?" 23 'Cause she doesn't like the smells, and she doesn't like the 24 slippery floor. Well, all I've got to say is, "Go, girl," 25 and she knows exactly what she's got to do. She'll go in and 7-13-09 52 1 put her head on that old-timer's -- patient's knee. And the 2 nurses are amazed. This man doesn't react to anything -- 3 anyone else, but he tries to get a little smile and he moves 4 his head a little, and he tries to put his hand on that dog. 5 Now, for me to keep this big dog healthy -- she's a working 6 breed. You know, she can't make me a cup of tea; she can't 7 do housework. I've got to take her out for her mental 8 health, as well as physical health, to run. I take her in 9 the park and I say, "Girl, go," and she'll go from one length 10 of that -- but she knows where I am all the time. The minute 11 I stop walking, she's there right by my side. 12 Now, I find that -- you know, she's with me when I 13 do water samples. I've volunteered for U.G.R.A. all summer 14 for the last six years. She goes with me and stands guard 15 while I take my water samples. And, you know, I think we've 16 got to think about the dogs, too. And I've had a friend who 17 -- well, not really a friend, an acquaintance who's a vet as 18 well as a dog trainer, and he always says that most problem 19 -- the dogs he has the most problem with are those that are 20 on-leash, because they are fearful they cannot get away, you 21 know, if there's something threatening, and also they get the 22 generation of fear from their owner. So, that's all I wanted 23 to say to you, and I thank you for -- and I hope we can take 24 our dogs to the upper part there where I can let mine off 25 where she can run and stay healthy, and contribute to the 7-13-09 53 1 community. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Tatum. We appreciate 3 it. Ms. Leach? Judy Leach? 4 MS. LEASH: No, I'm passed. 5 AUDIENCE: She wants to pass. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Johanna Roussel? 7 MS. ROUSSEL: I'll be brief. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: From up on Ridge Road? 9 MS. ROUSSEL: Correct. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 11 MS. ROUSSEL: I also go every morning, and I think 12 it's a great environment. A lot of friendly people, a lot of 13 friendly dogs. And I don't know if a compromise has ever 14 been proposed, that perhaps for -- like, from 7:00 to 9:00 in 15 the morning, we could have off-leash at the park. If you 16 don't want to come between 7:00 and 9:00 'cause you're afraid 17 that your dog will be attacked on a leash -- or I don't think 18 many picnickers are out there picnicking from 7:00 to 9:00. 19 I'm just bringing it up. Could we have maybe a trial period, 20 and during those hours you could have your dog off the leash? 21 I do know that we are using bags. I don't know what happens 22 the rest of the day, but Mr. Palmer is daily refeeding that 23 dog thing. And I'm wondering, all these other parks where 24 the dogs are on leash roaming around, there's no bags. Are 25 people picking up? I don't think as much. Everybody that I 7-13-09 54 1 see in the morning, our big group, we pick it up immediately. 2 I can't talk about what others do. I know we're using bags. 3 I don't think any squirrels, or ducks either, have been 4 killed that I can think of. And so my understanding is, as 5 -- as you want to propose it, the new part will not be off 6 leash? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the nature of the 8 proposal. 9 MS. ROUSSEL: So, you could still have on-leash 10 dogs in Flat Rock as well, so what's the difference? Or 11 there won't be any dogs allowed ever? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we're proposing is 13 that dogs be on-leash in the new section of the park, leaving 14 the original section of the park without animals in it. 15 MS. ROUSSEL: Oh, no animals. But all the other 16 parks in town -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we can clean up and do 18 some things more people-friendly. 19 MS. ROUSSEL: All the other parks in town -- if I 20 want to go to Tranquility, that's a problem. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know about that. 22 That's city. 23 MS. ROUSSEL: I see. But there would be no animals 24 even on-leash in the -- in the Flat Rock one? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm proposing we restrict 7-13-09 55 1 them to the new section. 2 MS. ROUSSEL: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the proposal. 4 MS. ROUSSEL: But on-leash? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am. 6 MS. ROUSSEL: And I would appeal also to let us try 7 it off-leash up there. Anybody that's fearful, don't go up 8 there. That's what I say. And I guess that's it. And I'm 9 also curious, these two -- this rash of dog bites that -- I 10 don't know if it's the same person that's been bit twice, or 11 two -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's two different 13 people. 14 MS. ROUSSEL: What's happened in years previous? 15 Have we had any? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got to direct that 17 question to Animal Control. They keep the records. 18 MS. WHITT: I have to go back and look, but yes, we 19 have had bites in the past in the park. 20 MS. ROUSSEL: Okay, I was just -- just checking. 21 Okay, thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that if -- if 23 there's going to be a proposal to modify the current Animal 24 Control ordinance, that we have to have a public hearing, 25 notice of that public hearing, and only after a public 7-13-09 56 1 hearing, formal action taken to adopt any changes. Would 2 that be correct, Mr. Emerson? 3 MR. EMERSON: If it's to change the whole 4 ordinance, yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, to change any part of the 6 ordinance, would -- would we have to do that also? For 7 example, if the ordinance were to be amended to provide that 8 -- to eliminate the section dealing with the direct 9 control -- supervision and direct control, as opposed to just 10 being on-leash or restrained or within a fence, would that 11 require a public hearing to amend the ordinance -- the order? 12 MR. EMERSON: To change the order, yes, Judge. But 13 I think as far as just regulating that park, y'all can pass 14 whatever order you deem is appropriate for public safety for 15 the park. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That would not require a 17 public hearing? 18 MR. EMERSON: Not other than what you have right 19 now, no. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Ms. Whitt, did you 21 have some additional comments? 22 MS. WHITT: I just had a couple comments; that I 23 feel that whether we restrict it to just the top portion, and 24 what they're asking is that we allow them to move up to the 25 top portion and still allow the dogs to be off of a leash. I 7-13-09 57 1 don't feel that we'd be solving any problems by doing that, 2 because the dogs would still be off of a leash, so we're just 3 moving the problem from here to there. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There would be -- the only 5 exception to that, if you allowed them in the park where they 6 are now under a leash, and have the other area for animals 7 that were unleashed only, could be an option. That's one way 8 to maybe try. 9 MS. WHITT: I feel -- my concern is public safety, 10 and I feel -- and I feel very strongly about this, as my 11 officers do. We've talked quite a bit about this. When you 12 have numerous dogs off of a leash, you're going to have a 13 bigger chance of someone getting bit or having dog fights, 14 things of that nature. So, how do we correct the problem? 15 Only way to correct the problem would be to put them 16 on-leash. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- you know, I'm 18 sympathetic to letting dogs run out in the wild. I mean, you 19 know, obviously, you know, those that see me, I have my dog 20 and she's not on a leash, but I think she is pretty much 21 under my direct control. She's right next to me when she's 22 off. But either way, a lot of communities have dog parks 23 that are in a confined area, and those dogs are off a leash 24 and they don't seem to be a problem. I mean, I think there 25 -- well, you know, so there is a way to do it. The upper 7-13-09 58 1 area of the park, to me, somewhat fits that, because it's -- 2 it's fenced and there's only one access point, being a 3 bridge. So, the issue then is, do you want to -- do we want 4 to make that a -- a dog park over there, so to speak? And 5 I'm undecided on that, I think, really, at the moment. I do 6 think that it's -- you know, it clearly -- I mean, we need to 7 have an area of Flat Rock that dogs have to be on a leash. I 8 mean, the old part of the park, I don't see any way around 9 that. We just have too many problems on our agenda, too much 10 of our time, Animal Control's time, Sheriff's time, and so I 11 think that that area definitely needs to have, at a minimum, 12 leashes. The other area, I'm kind of open to discussion 13 still. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and what really happens 15 is, you have -- just like most other things that get passed, 16 you have a very small number of people that are the problem, 17 and they make it hard on everybody else. And it's unfair for 18 people that do have dogs that they do have under control -- I 19 can guarantee you, I have mine under control too. There's no 20 question. I can turn mine loose with ten dogs, and she'll be 21 by me when I tell her to get over there. But a lot of 22 people -- some people just think they ought to roam, and -- 23 and they do have to be under control, in my opinion, somehow 24 or another, whether it be verbal, leash, shock collar, you 25 know, chain, you name it. But I just -- I hate to see us cut 7-13-09 59 1 out the unleashed part of it county-wide. You know, it's 2 kind of like discrimination, in my opinion. You let one 3 group do it, but the other group kind of gets the raw end of 4 the deal. So you -- I'd be -- I'd be in favor of looking at 5 it a little farther and see if we can try it for a bit 6 longer, an area where they're unleashed only. Anybody else 7 comes in there, you know, at their own risk. But I do 8 believe, like Jonathan, an area of the old part of the park 9 needs to be leashed. Too many activities down there. 10 MS. WHITT: That's still -- 11 MS. ROUSSEL: Enter at your own risk. If there was 12 a sign, you know, like -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you will be responsible 14 if your pet bites another person. 15 MS. ROUSSEL: Right. Well, that -- but cities all 16 over the United States have dog parks, so I can't imagine 17 that Kerrville can't work something out, that are off-leash. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I think a broader issue, 19 Ms. Roussel, is are we going to, at least indirectly, exclude 20 the public from this park because we've given permission -- 21 MS. ROUSSEL: That would be the new one? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, uh-huh. 23 MS. ROUSSEL: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause that's a public park. It's 25 owned by the citizens of this county. And what if you got 7-13-09 60 1 people that, rather than fish there at the west Flat Rock, 2 they want to go over there at the east one and do some 3 fishing over there? Or they want to have their picnic over 4 there, go over there and play with their children and 5 whatnot. Have we, indirectly at least, excluded those people 6 from the park? Particularly during -- let's say in the 7 summertime, early in the morning, late in the evening, when 8 the weather's more amenable? 9 MR. PALMER: Just have friendly dogs over at the 10 other park to play with. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the problem is, -- 12 MS. ROUSSEL: How do we know? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- dogs are as friendly as their 14 owners make them, and sometimes we don't have responsible 15 owners. And that's -- 16 MR. PALMER: We've got unfriendly people that we 17 don't want our kids around, too. 18 MS. ROUSSEL: I say give it a chance. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, you said you 20 were going to have some comments on all this, did you not? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a comment, and 22 it's a piggyback with your point that you were just making, 23 that that property is owned by all citizens, all taxpayers of 24 Kerr County. And if we're talking about -- if we're talking 25 about using any property exclusively for one issue, I vote 7-13-09 61 1 no, every -- 100 percent of the time. It's not the right 2 thing to do. These other people -- I know the major park 3 down there, I know families -- generations of families that 4 have been going down there to use that park, and I will never 5 support any kind of move telling those families they can't 6 use that; it's for dogs only. No way. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I agree with that. I 8 mean, what I was saying is, on the other part of the park, 9 open it to anyone. You just -- dogs can run wild, but -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're talking about 11 exclusive dog park, no. If you want -- if you want an 12 exclusive dog park, move to Austin. That's my point. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, now -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking to Letz now; I'm 15 not talking to these nice people. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, but now what? Dogs 17 -- dog owners are taxpayers too. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sure they are. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Try to make it fair and right 21 for all of us. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's hard to do. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is hard to do. And 25 we've been dealing with this, what, three or four years? 7-13-09 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we -- we're right back 3 to where -- exactly where we started. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue really is, should 6 our order require that dogs to be restrained under that 7 definition be on the leash or other physical restraint, 8 rather than under the so-called control, quote, unquote, 9 verbal command, shock collar, anything other than a physical 10 attachment or restrictive device such as a fence? I think 11 that's exactly where we are. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another possible option would 13 be to take that upper part of that park -- it's very large, 14 30 acres? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21 acres. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 21, whatever. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 21 on the ground. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The far -- the furthest east 19 portion of that, you can put up a -- or you can make a dog 20 park. Make a small dog park, if someone was to donate the 21 money for the fencing. But, you know, the problem has to be 22 solved; I agree with Commissioner Williams and the Judge. I 23 mean, we cannot have dogs running, causing problems and 24 biting people. That can't continue. You know, that park is 25 one of the jewels the County has. It's the longest river 7-13-09 63 1 frontage, beautiful, and it's got to be open to all the 2 public. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your thought is a good one 4 with respect to fencing a portion of the 21 acres above, if 5 somebody wants to step forward and -- and figure out how to 6 do that. I don't believe that it's the County's 7 responsibility to pay for that fencing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can fence off, like, you 9 know, 2 to 3 acres. There's plenty of area to have dogs 10 running free, and then it's in a controlled area, and it's 11 not a whole -- I mean, I'm not going to vote, I don't think, 12 for tax dollars to pay for that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not either. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a -- you know, I mean, 15 doesn't have to be a chain link fence. It could be a fence, 16 and no one -- you know, that goes down to the river; it can 17 get torn out by a flood. Anyway, it's just an option. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the meantime, I would 19 move adoption of the agenda item as proposed. 20 AUDIENCE: So, if -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We got a motion. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'll second that 23 motion. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 25 adopt the agenda item, which would require animals brought to 7-13-09 64 1 Flat Rock Lake Park to be leashed at all times when in the 2 park, and restrict those animals to the upper portion of the 3 park located to the east of Third Creek. Further discussion? 4 Questions on the motion by any member of the Court? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see how you can 6 restrict anybody anywhere, but -- but I think we need to fire 7 a shot at this thing and see what we can get and what we 8 can't get, and -- on it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, by the same token, the 10 Court's action today would be subject to being changed next 11 month, next year, whenever. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, that's what got us here, 14 wasn't it? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what got us here. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we talking park rules or 17 dog rules? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Animal -- no, we're 19 enforcing the Animal Control order, Rabies and Animal Control 20 order of '97, I believe. Am I correct, Judge? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we're not. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because your -- your motion 24 says no animals at all in the lower part of Flat Rock, and 25 it's changing the -- 7-13-09 65 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With respect to leashing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but -- no, it doesn't say 3 that, though. It says no animals. Restrict all animals to 4 the upper portion. So, that means there's no animals in the 5 old park; means they have to be leashed in the upper park. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, requiring animals 7 brought to Flat Rock Lake Park be leashed at all times. 8 That's the park in its entirety, and restricting those to the 9 upper portion located east of Third Creek. 10 MR. PALMER: Does that mean your ordinance sign is 11 now illegal? Which states -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: There's been no action taken yet, 13 Mr. Palmer. 14 MR. PALMER: Okay, I'm just trying to understand. 15 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The way I read the agenda item, 17 Mr. Emerson, would be that all animals at the park be 18 leashed, and that any animals on leash would be required to 19 be on the eastern portion of the park. Is that the way you 20 read the agenda item? 21 MR. EMERSON: That's correct. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the intent, Judge. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the motion before the 24 Court. Any further question or discussion on the motion? 25 Where did Baldwin go? 7-13-09 66 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've still got a question. 2 We're changing the park rule? We're not changing the county 3 dog ordinance rule? 4 MR. EMERSON: That's the way I read it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But that means you can't even 6 have a dog on a leash in the existing county park. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, only the other section 8 of Flat Rock. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What I'm saying is where 10 they're allowed to be now, but they would be no longer 11 allowed even to be on a leash there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my interpretation. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see this as a problem; can't 15 have a county -- a dog ordinance that's in conflict with the 16 park ordinance. One says -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we ought to bring it 18 back at a later meeting. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we got a motion and a second. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just my thought. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We got a motion and a second, and we 22 have an absent Commissioner. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is he doing? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe by intention; I don't know. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure I understand 7-13-09 67 1 the conflict in everybody's mind. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't want to -- I 3 mean, I'm going to debate on the upper part of the park 4 whether you should have leash or no leash up there, and I'm 5 against having no dogs in the lower part of the park. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would restrict dogs 7 from being in the lower portion of the park. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not voting for that, no. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not to put them on a leash. 11 Where did Baldwin go? Did he take a break? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 13 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (Commissioner Williams voted in favor of the motion.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (Commissioners Letz and Oehler voted against the 18 motion.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion fails. 20 MR. PALMER: So, it's the same as usual? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're back to where we were. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless there's another motion. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Before we take our break, we 24 have a number of folks here for our 9:45 item, so I'd like to 25 get to them. 7-13-09 68 1 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 7, presentation regarding Kerr 3 County 4-H program interpretation to the Commissioners Court. 4 Mr. Walston? Oh, Mr. Walston's not here. We have Laurinda 5 Boyd, the 4-H Coordinator. 6 MS. BOYD: How are you? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to square one. 8 MS. BOYD: Face the court. Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I want to know how many of these 10 young people complained when Ms. Boyd said, "I want you to 11 come up and stand before the Commissioners Court this 12 morning." 13 MS. BOYD: Not a one of them. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Not a one? Wait a minute. I wanted 15 their answer, not yours. (Laughter.) 16 MS. BOYD: Well, not a one of them, actually. 17 They're -- they're good campers. So, we just wanted to come 18 and do an interpretation to the Court to tell you what we've 19 been doing in June and July. We had a really busy first week 20 in June with our state 4-H Roundup. We took 13 kiddoes to 21 Texas A & M for State Breaks Roundup, and we had a great 22 week, actually. Really great week. Our wool team, which 23 Mr. Chase Lantz and Amanda Weaver and Jackie Nentwich -- and 24 Jackie is at camp this week. They placed first at state in 25 wool judging. Amanda was first high individual. Amanda, 7-13-09 69 1 waive your hand. And Chase was second. 2 MR. LANTZ: I was third in state. 3 MS. BOYD: You were first? 4 MR. LANTZ: Third at state. 5 MS. BOYD: You were third at state, Amanda was 6 second at state, and first high individual. And then, we 7 went the next following week to Sonora for the national wool 8 contest, and they were national winners again. This is, I 9 believe, the eighth time Kerr County's had a national -- won 10 nationals. And at nationals, Amanda was first high 11 individual, and Chase was second high individual, so we're 12 really, really proud of them, and they did an awesome job. 13 At state, also, our mohair -- we had two mohair individuals, 14 Thomas Frizzell competed and Katelyn Mitchell. Katelyn was 15 third high individual. Our plant ID team, we have two lovely 16 ladies on the end down there, Rachel Taylor and Adair White, 17 and Colton French and Daniel Haverlah, who were not able to 18 be here, and they were third place at state, and Daniel had 19 fifth high individual. And then we had -- first time we had 20 a senior compete for swine skill-a-thon, and Jake Behrens was 21 first -- won first place in swine skill-a-thon. They compete 22 all as individuals, and so Jake was first high, and we are 23 very proud of him. That -- that is a really deep, hard 24 contest. They have to answer a lot of really intense 25 questions, and he did a great job on that. 7-13-09 70 1 We also had a livestock team compete this year, 2 and it's the first time in -- well, let's see, I've been here 3 16 years -- that we've had a team go to state as livestock, 4 and they did a great job. They were -- out of 100 teams, 5 they were 22nd, and that was Katie Muehlstein, Ethan 6 Muehlstein, and Jake Behrens, and they really did great in 7 the long-day judging. So, we were also very proud of the 8 fact that Katie Muehlstein, our -- one of our graduates this 9 year, she received a $15,000 scholarship from the 4-H 10 Foundation from Houston Livestock Show, and then also a 11 $1,000 scholarship from the Texas Education Association group 12 also, so $16,000 in scholarships. We were very proud of her. 13 The -- the last week in June, we went to District 10 14 leadership lab. We had 12 attend that, and Nick Randall was 15 elected first vice president of our district council, and he 16 will serve on state 4-H Council. This is the fourth year in 17 a row that Kerr County has had a state 4-H Council 18 representative, so we're very proud of that. And then the 19 very last week, we went to the state 4-H Mission Possible 20 camp back at the 4-H Center, and that is a disabilities camp 21 that we do for the -- statewide, and five of our kiddoes went 22 as mentors, and they really did a great job. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Who are those children that went? 24 Do you recall offhand, Ms. Boyd? 25 MS. BOYD: Yeah. For the mentors, it was Adair and 7-13-09 71 1 Amanda and Ethan Muehlstein, Katie Muehlstein. And who did I 2 miss? 3 MS. WEAVER: Gideon. 4 MS. BOYD: Oh, Gideon. Gideon Lucke, and they 5 worked for three days with the kids with disabilities and 6 diversity. It's a really awesome camp to participate in. 7 And then Friday we had our fishing derby that we've been 8 doing 20-something-odd years down at the park, and we had 86 9 kids from local day care centers there, and 26 -- I know, it 10 was wild. And 26 of our 4-H kids. And what they do is they 11 pair up with all the day care kids; they go out and catch 12 these little, bitty old fish, and all compete for prizes, the 13 largest fish, the smallest fish, the most unusual fish. 14 Actually, there's crawfish down there. Did you know that? 15 We had a big sucker. It was big. It won the most unusual 16 fish. And so, anyway, but they have a great time, and it 17 exposes them to the outdoors, and our kids get to spend 18 one-on-one time with, you know, kiddoes, and it's just really 19 a neat experience, and we had a great time. So, in two 20 weeks, we'll be doing our 4-H mini-camp out at the Ag Barn. 21 We have about 80 day care kids coming from Y.M.C.A. and 22 A Child's Place. And what the kids will be doing that week 23 from 9:00 to noon every day is, we'll be doing different -- 24 our them is "Go Green" this year, recycling, and they'll be 25 doing different activities, working with the kids hands-on 7-13-09 72 1 and mentoring and counseling with them and doing fun things. 2 So, we appreciate y'all's time, and do y'all have any 3 questions of the kids? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I ever get an answer to my first 5 question? (Laughter.) They don't dare tell me anything -- 6 MS. BOYD: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- contrary to what you've said. 8 MS. BOYD: Honestly, did any of y'all complain? 9 MR. LANTZ: I got half a day off work; I wasn't 10 going to complain. (Laughter.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Now we're looking at motivation. 12 MS. BOYD: We've been traveling so much, they've 13 all been getting up early, so we're all kind of road weary. 14 So, anyway -- but we've had a great summer, and the kids are 15 just awesome. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: This -- I made -- I didn't want to 17 steal your thunder, but I made mention of the news reports on 18 all of the honors these kids have been taking in this 4-H 19 program. 20 MS. BOYD: Yeah. And, actually, our shooting 21 sports group, we have a young lady that's competing in Italy 22 right now because of her shooting sports accomplishments, and 23 then we -- actually, we had a huge trap and skeet shoot, our 24 state shoot that we host the first weekend, and we had about 25 500, 600 people out there. We had 150 shooters, and that was 7-13-09 73 1 a great weekend also. And we're fixing to have our -- we've 2 got about 25 kids that are going to state next week to shoot 3 at San Antonio at the range down there. We'll have air 4 pistol, air rifle, .22, archery, and trap and skeet 5 represented down there for our state shoot, so that's great, 6 our shooting sports program. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Locally, we have one of the premier 8 shooting sports teams. 9 MS. BOYD: Yes, sir, we do. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Not only in the state, but in the 11 country. 12 MS. BOYD: Yes. We are very fortunate; we have a 13 wonderful classroom out at the shooting sports range that's 14 4-H provided that we do lots of great stuff out there, so 15 we're very excited about our shooting sports program. It is 16 the -- I tell you what, it is just booming. And we're 17 actually -- we just got a -- recently got a grant from the 18 Mounted Peace Officers Association to help us start building 19 silhouettes and different things so that we can host some air 20 rifle, air pistol competitions, and we're working on some 21 matching -- matching grants on that, some N.R.A. grants. 22 We'll be turning in a really big N.R.A. grant in November for 23 some other new items and things we need for our shooting 24 sports program. So, we're rocking and rolling. It's an 25 exciting time. Y'all, get excited. Come on. (Laughter.) 7-13-09 74 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You hear that? The order 2 is, "Be excited." 3 MS. BOYD: Okay. Thank y'all for your time. We 4 appreciate it. 5 (Applause.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that'll be a good note to take 7 our break on. We'll be in recess for about 15 minutes. 8 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order, if 11 we might. We have some 10 o'clock items that got way out in 12 -- we got way out in front of those. We'll go to Item 8. 13 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:55 a.m., and a public hearing was held in 14 open court, as follows:) 15 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 16 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, I will recess the 17 Commissioners Court meeting and convene a public hearing for 18 revision of plat for Headwaters Ranch, Phase III, as set 19 forth in Volume 8, Page 92, Plat Records, and located in 20 Precinct 4. Is there any member of the public that wishes to 21 be heard with regard to the revision of the plat for 22 Headwaters Ranch, Phase III, as set forth in Volume 8, Page 23 92 of the Plat Records? Seeing no one coming forward, I will 24 close the public hearing for the revision of plat for 25 Headwaters Ranch, Phase III. 7-13-09 75 1 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:55 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 2 reopened.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 5 Commissioners Court meeting, and we will go to Item 9, which 6 is a presentation by Rose Jackson, AACOG Housing Manager, 7 regarding Weatherization Assistance Program's increased level 8 of activity as a result of funding from the American Recovery 9 and Reinvestment Act over the next two years. Commissioner 10 Williams, would you like to introduce this item? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would, Judge, and I want 12 to tell the Court and the people in attendance, this will not 13 be as contentious an issue as the one we just passed. 14 (Laughter.) It's my pleasure to ask Rose to come to the 15 podium. Rose Jackson heads up the Weatherization Program for 16 AACOG, and has done an absolutely fantastic job over the 17 years that she's had that position. And she is blessed, I 18 think, or perhaps cursed with a -- with a huge pot of gold 19 that's coming her way with respect to the Weatherization 20 Program, so when AACOG approved her -- some of her 21 initiatives so she could move forward and do these things, I 22 asked Rose if she'd be good enough to come to the Court and 23 tell us exactly what the program's all about and how it might 24 benefit those in Kerr County who could use those services. 25 So it's my pleasure to introduce to the Court Ms. Rose 7-13-09 76 1 Jackson, who heads the Weatherization Program for Council of 2 Governments. Rose? 3 MS. JACKSON: Good morning. Thank you, 4 Commissioner Williams, and I'd like to thank Judge Tinley and 5 the members of the Commissioners Court here. Thank you so 6 much for the extension of the invitation to come here to 7 speak to you today. I'm going to try to keep it real short, 8 'cause I know you have a lot of business. We have at AACOG 9 for over 27 years been conducting a national Weatherization 10 Assistance Program, so currently we're -- some of the year, 11 we have been weatherizing homes, and its in the 12-county 12 region which makes up AACOG. AACOG, if you can imagine, is 13 Bexar County in the middle like a little doughnut, at the 14 center of the doughnut, and then all around are the 11 rural 15 counties. Those 12 counties put together make up AACOG. So, 16 the Weatherization Assistance Programs idea has been to go 17 out and try to help people save on their energy bills, and 18 everybody knows that the energy bills right now are very 19 high. In San Antonio, we've been breaking records, over 20 104 degrees; we've been averaging 102 degrees, so everybody's 21 utility bills right now, it is -- is at the highest. I'm 22 sure it's the same here in Kerr County and Kerrville. 23 So, weatherization, it's free. We actually -- it 24 is based on -- on the income. The income eligibility levels 25 right now is at 125 percent of the median average for -- say 7-13-09 77 1 a family size of two right now, if you gross $18,213, then 2 you are eligible for the Weatherization Assistance Program. 3 That sounds awfully low, but I have good news, because come 4 August the 1st, through this A.R.R.A. project, it is going to 5 go up to 200 percent. So, a family size of two could -- 6 gross income would be $29,140. So, as you can see, it's -- 7 the idea is to try to get out to as many houses, apartment 8 complexes, mobile homes, so that AACOG has $14 million just 9 strictly out of the stimulus funds for Weatherization 10 Assistance Program. In addition to that, we have another 11 three to four million dollars. Now, when you put it all 12 together, it's about 17 to 18 million dollars that AACOG has 13 available to spend within a two-year period, and the clock 14 starts August the 1st. 15 So, again, what we need is a lot of help from 16 people such as yourselves, people in the audience. I just 17 spoke to somebody who's one of your newspaper people, and I 18 spoke to Jessica here, who's also with the builders 19 association. So, we're going to need to partner and work 20 together, because the idea is, we have the funds, we have the 21 contractors, we have the inspectors. We provide the 22 installation of free attic insulation, wall insulation, all 23 EnergyStar appliances, refrigerators, gas stoves, water 24 heaters, central systems, including duct work, and all of 25 this is free. Windows and doors. And we -- we desperately 7-13-09 78 1 need to try to make sure that we spend as much as we can as 2 evenly as we can throughout the 12-county area. So, with 3 that, I did want to mention, even if you have somebody that 4 you think is not eligible for the program, if they receive -- 5 if anybody in the household receives S.S.I. or T.A.N.F., 6 Texas Aid to Needy Families, they automatically qualify. We 7 had a lady that -- in -- in San Antonio that lives in the -- 8 I don't know if anybody's familiar with the Terrell Hills, 9 Olmos Park area, but you would think that they obviously 10 wouldn't qualify. Well, on the surface, that's correct, but 11 because somebody in the household was actually receiving 12 S.S.I., they automatically qualified. 13 So, this program is -- is really geared towards the 14 low income, the people that are elderly, the disabled. And 15 the installation of the materials that we conduct through 16 professional contractors, it has -- it carries a one-year 17 warranty on the labor and parts, so I think it's something 18 that everybody should try to avail themselves of. And, 19 again, I'm keeping it very short, because I can -- really, 20 Judge, I'm already promoting it; I'm sorry. Commissioner 21 Williams knows I can really talk a lot about my program. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Jackson, you mentioned that 23 there -- there was going to be an effort made to try and 24 distribute these funds reasonably equally among the AACOG 25 region. Based upon that, what's the estimated available 7-13-09 79 1 expenditure for Kerr County, if you calculated that? 2 MS. JACKSON: Well, since it is on a first-come, 3 first-served type basis, I can tell you right now, we have 4 already encumbered starting come August the 1st in Kerr 5 County, there are roughly 89 households that we already have 6 energy audits that we are going to be weatherizing. We're 7 just waiting for the funds to come in August the 1st. So, 8 I'm -- I guess in terms of what we would like to do, I can't 9 really tell you, but we really want to be as fair and 10 impartial as possible. It is on a first-come, first-served 11 basis. We do have the applications; I have some applications 12 for everybody here. Please, you know, make additional copies 13 of that for your constituents. And we also have the -- the 14 application on the AACOG web site, so that can be downloaded 15 and copied. So, we're looking to do about 2,000 households 16 in two years, 1,000 a year, and throughout the 12-county 17 region, and I would say if you were going to ask me, Judge, 18 again, how much, I would venture to say that we're looking to 19 at least do about -- of those 1,000, at least 15 to 20 20 percent. Kerr is one of our biggest counties that we 21 actually do weatherization. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But you already have 80-plus 23 weatherization audit applications? 24 MS. JACKSON: Correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: From Kerr County? 7-13-09 80 1 MS. JACKSON: Yes, sir, already. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Sitting on your desk now? 3 MS. JACKSON: Sitting on my desk. We're just 4 waiting on the funds so we can send out the contractors. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to hear. 6 MS. JACKSON: But we'd like more. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll see if we can help you. 8 MS. JACKSON: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the best way for us 10 to try to generate those applications for you? Your 11 experience in other counties, how does this work? 12 MS. JACKSON: Well, the experience in other 13 counties is we'll be more than happy to come back, whether it 14 be, say, you know, in your precinct, sir, if you'd like for 15 us to come out to your precinct, and you sponsor a workshop 16 and you want us to come out with the applications. 17 Commissioner Williams, same thing, or parishes, churches, 18 what-have-you. That's what we're doing in some of the other 19 counties in Atascosa and Frio; we've actually gone out, and 20 Commissioners or the Judges have actually sponsored a 21 workshop that's open to the public, sponsored by them. We 22 come in and we actually sign up people. I think in Pearsall 23 in Frio County, we had over 89 people sign up. So, we'd like 24 to do a similar thing here in Kerrville. So, just -- that 25 would be one of the -- one of the best ways to get the 7-13-09 81 1 information out. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MS. JACKSON: And, again, just -- don't worry about 4 bugging me at the office. I'll be more than happy -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know how to find you. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good, 'cause I'll need 7 to know. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we need to ask our 9 friends at the press to give this some publicity too, because 10 this is important. It's an opportunity for folks to upgrade 11 their domicile that are unable to do so under any other 12 circumstances. 13 MS. JACKSON: And we do about an average of $7,000 14 to $9,000 of free installation services, so it's a good 15 program. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Per unit? Per household? 17 MS. JACKSON: Yes, sir. That's what we're 18 averaging right now. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty nice chunk of money. 20 MS. JACKSON: Yeah, it sure is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. We appreciate 22 you being here. 23 MS. JACKSON: Thank you so much. And if I may, I'd 24 like to leave some packets here, some additional packets for 25 people. Thank you so much. 7-13-09 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Rose. Thanks 2 for making the trip down. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to our 10:30 items. 4 We're catching up a little bit. First one is Item 14; 5 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on request 6 from the Grand Commandery of Texas Knights Templar for 7 reduced rate for the parking lot at Hill Country Youth 8 Exhibit Center. Mr. Dock Dixon, Jr. 9 MR. DIXON: Thank you, Your Honor, members of the 10 Commissioners Court. My name is Dock Franklin Dixon, Jr. 11 I'm the Grand Commander of the -- the Grand Commander, 12 Knights Templar in Texas, and we're proposing -- or we're 13 going to have our annual conclave here in Kerrville at the 14 Inn of the Hills in April of 2010, the 16th through 19th, 15 more exactly. We do several things at our conclave, one of 16 which, we have drill teams that need places to drill, and we 17 would like to have had an indoor place, but since there are 18 no places indoors large enough, we selected the east side 19 of -- the east parking lot at the Ag Barn as a place to 20 drill. Now, our drill captain informs me that we need 21 approximately 100 by 200, and I have stepped that off, and 22 it's approximately 180 by -- into infinity, practically. And 23 we'll have approximately 500 people at our -- at our 24 conclave, and hopefully they'll be spending money in 25 Kerrville. 7-13-09 83 1 As far as I can determine, this -- Kerrville will 2 be the smallest city that this conclave has ever been held 3 in. Last year it was held in Waco. The year before, it was 4 held in -- just north of Dallas, and the big cities usually 5 get this. But the Grand Commander gets to call the shots, 6 and since I am he this year, we decided to come to Kerrville. 7 I lived approximately 32 years in Comfort. I'm a retired Air 8 Force officer, and last year we moved out of the frying pan 9 into the fire; we moved to Bandera. (Laughter.) And I'm an 10 aspiring golfer, so you can imagine where we live. And to 11 talk about the precipitation, if we would like to for a 12 moment, I've had exactly 7 inches of rain at my house from 13 July to July. The grass is looking -- (thumbs-down gesture.) 14 But, anyway, I would like to -- to ask the County Judge and 15 the Commissioners Court if they would waive the fee for us at 16 the -- at the parking lot, or at least reduce that fee. We 17 would certainly appreciate it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to be operating on the 19 asphalt area? Or out in the -- 20 MR. DIXON: Asphalt area. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, the asphalt area in front 22 of -- I assume in front of the buildings there? 23 MR. DIXON: No, to the east side of the building. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the east side, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 7-13-09 84 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not going to use the 2 facilities, just the outside is all you're using, right? 3 MR. DIXON: Yes, sir. Of course, we will have a 4 number of people there, and we would like to use the restroom 5 facilities if they're available in the facility. And on 6 Friday evening, our people will be coming in Friday evening, 7 and the drill teams will get together and they would like to 8 practice on Friday evening. I notice there are some lights 9 on the -- on the east side of the building, but the drill 10 competition will start at 7 o'clock on Saturday morning and 11 last till approximately noon. And this will be open to the 12 public, and I certainly invite them out, because they will 13 see a spectacle. They -- these guys really know what they're 14 doing. They will be in full Templar dress, and it will be 15 exciting to many people. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And when's this going to occur, sir? 17 MR. DIXON: This will be the 17th -- the afternoon 18 and early evening of the 16th of April, through -- and the 19 drill competition will be on Saturday morning, the 17th of 20 April, 2010. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much do we charge to use 22 our parking lot? 23 MR. DIXON: I was quoted a figure between $450 and 24 $500. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that sounds about right. 7-13-09 85 1 We have this nice dog park... (Laughter.) 2 MR. DIXON: I heard about that, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but I don't think you 4 can go over there. I don't think I can. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The soles of the shoes of 6 your guys might get a little messy. 7 MR. DIXON: Yeah. 8 MS. GRINSTEAD: Well, that included also -- because 9 the first time we talked, he needed to have it cleaned and 10 swept, the entire parking lot they're going to be using. So, 11 Road and Bridge would have to come over. We talked to Kelly; 12 she said that they would be able to. But then I think since 13 then, you didn't -- 14 MR. DIXON: Since then, our drill captain informed 15 me that we need at least 100 feet. Most of the loose gravel 16 is along the periphery, the sides of the parking lot, so I 17 don't think we would need to do that. 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: And bleachers. 19 MR. DIXON: We would request some bleachers -- a 20 set of bleachers for the guests to have a seat while they're 21 watching the drill team, and some cones -- traffic cones to 22 mark off the drill area. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Got any thoughts, Tim? 24 MR. BOLLIER: About the only labor that we'd have 25 in it is just moving the bleachers out there for them and 7-13-09 86 1 putting some cones, so I have no big problem with it. 2 Whatever y'all decide. I mean, 'cause it's just -- you know, 3 moving those bleachers over there ain't going to take ten 4 minutes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's our -- our rate for 6 using the parking lot? 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: $200. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $200? And the other -- the 9 other amount between the $200 and the $400? 10 MR. DIXON: I was quoted $450 to $500. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That other part came from 13 rentals? 14 MR. BOLLIER: We were going to have to sweep it. 15 We thought we were going to have to sweep it and so forth. 16 So, you know -- 17 MR. DIXON: I thought this was before we talked 18 about sweeping. But, anyway -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, I think there's 20 some time involved. I mean, I don't know. I think these 21 things are always so -- such a bad -- 22 MR. DIXON: We are a 503(c)(10) organization. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a one time only 24 event? 25 MR. DIXON: This is a one time only event, yes, 7-13-09 87 1 sir. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: They're not going to reelect you as 3 the -- as the top banana so that you can bring them back? 4 MR. DIXON: We have a thing in Masonry, for those 5 that may be Masons; you get one shot. So, if you get -- if 6 you get a bad one, you're rid of him in a year. (Laughter.) 7 If you get a good one, you're also rid of him in a year. So, 8 for those that may be interested, the grand -- the line of 9 officers for the Grand Master, Knights Templar of Texas, is a 10 ten-year line. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 12 MR. DIXON: I started in April of 2000, and now 13 I'm -- ten years later, I'm Grand Commander. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like county 15 government. 16 MR. DIXON: It goes on and on. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is $200 reasonable? 18 MR. DIXON: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we set the fee 20 at $200. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 23 indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion? 24 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 25 hand. 7-13-09 88 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, sir. 5 MR. DIXON: Thank you, sir. I thank the Court for 6 their consideration. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 15, another 10:30 9 item. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action to declare 10 as surplus a list of information technology equipment. 11 Mr. Trolinger, you're bringing your laptop forward; I hope 12 that's not one of the items that you're proposing to declare 13 surplus. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, I have a 24-page list on 15 my laptop. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Have -- has there been 17 any notification that's gone out to local government and 18 nonprofits giving them an opportunity to see if they have a 19 need for this particular equipment that you're proposing to 20 dispose of as surplus? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, for the Adult Probation 22 equipment, which is not on this list; I believe it's kept 23 separately. I don't know how -- it's not on this list yet. 24 There was notification, and that equipment's actually 25 going -- has already been disposed of at the Salvation Army. 7-13-09 89 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So as to the other that 2 you're going to propose be disposed of as surplus under 3 authorization from the Court, then others have been given a 4 shot at it if they're local government or nonprofits? 5 MR. TROLINGER: The process for the equipment is -- 6 is that initially, it goes out for auction, even if it's 7 junk, non-working. If it does not pass the auction -- if it 8 does not sell at auction, then it would go to recycle, and 9 typically at recycle, Lion's Club is present to look at the 10 equipment that comes in, and they'll -- they'll be able to 11 acquire it at that point. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, do you need some more 13 equipment over there? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably half of what he's got 15 came from over there. 16 MR. TROLINGER: About half of what -- yes. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I don't know what all he 18 has on 24 pages, but normally it has to be declared first, 19 and then everybody can kind of look and -- you know, 20 different county offices go through it, see if any of us need 21 it. He's doing the I.T. for all the county offices, so I 22 doubt if it's needed. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- I mean, there's a 24 lot. I'm just looking through; there's a lot of Dell 25 Dimension 2400's. 7-13-09 90 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of these work? I mean, 3 they're working computers? 4 MR. TROLINGER: No, most do not work, and all have 5 had hard drives removed. So, even those -- even those that 6 were working don't have a hard drive. When it goes out for 7 auction, we don't want any data going outside the county or 8 government buildings, so no hard drives. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we declare the list -- 10 the items on the list as surplus. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 15 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does pass. Thank you, 20 Mr. Trolinger. Let's kind of go back to clean up. Let's go 21 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 22 engagement letter on FY 2009 audit by Neffendorf Doss and 23 Company, certified public accountants. I was under the 24 impression that this had already been approved, but maybe I'm 25 mistaken. 7-13-09 91 1 MS. HARGIS: We had a two-year -- two-year contract 2 with them. This would be their third year. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the contract 5 renewal, and the fee is $30,000? 6 MS. HARGIS: That's right. That's the same as it 7 has been the last two years. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that -- how is that 9 compared to this year's -- 10 MS. HARGIS: The same. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval. Question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- just that they've done a 17 good job. I appreciate them, and I like their -- what 18 they've done. I like the -- forget the gentleman's name that 19 comes down here and talks, but he's great. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's because you 21 blockheads use the same language. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Speaking the same language. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's the only guy that's 24 been in here Letz can communicate with. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion on that 7-13-09 92 1 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. We'll move to 7 Item 6; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 8 approve one-year contract for investment advisory services 9 with Patterson and Associates. 10 MS. HARGIS: We -- Rex and I have been working on 11 this kind of back and forth, so it's taken us about three or 12 four months to get it the way we want it, but the document 13 does reflect what the County Attorney requested. So, I 14 request that y'all approve it. It's going to be up for 15 renewal again in October. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Did this outfit earn its keep? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes, I think they have. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MS. HARGIS: They've been able to teach us a lot 22 and put us on the right step, especially during this bad 23 economy. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I calculate, our fee is in 25 the neighborhood of $2,500 annually; is that right? 7-13-09 93 1 MS. HARGIS: Right. We haven't paid them that much 2 this year, actually, I don't believe. She kind of -- she 3 makes sure that she does something for her service before she 4 bills us. So, I think we maybe paid her $500 so far this 5 year. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 10 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move to 15 Item -- I've been advised Item 10 -- that that item is to be 16 pulled from the agenda. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that correct, Mr. Odom? 19 MR. ODOM: That's correct, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. We'll move to Item 11; 21 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to buy an RBU-121 22 Caterpillar 420D backhoe. 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. And in 2004, we took a 24 five-year lease on a Caterpillar 420D backhoe. The lease is 25 up in July of the year 2009. We would like to purchase this 7-13-09 94 1 backhoe. The payoff of this equipment is 21,000. We 2 provided with the agenda item pictures of this backhoe. It's 3 in great condition. It only has a thousand and -- 1,086 4 hours on it, which makes it a great investment for Road and 5 Bridge after five years. This backhoe is used on a -- a 6 daily basis, but basically it's used for rock hammering. 7 That is what it was intended for. The newer backhoes that we 8 have have this swivel, so it's not functional to have this 9 impact on -- on these two backhoes that we have leased out. 10 Without this piece of equipment, we will not have a backhoe 11 that the rock hammer can be installed on, so we're asking the 12 Court at this time to allow us to pay off and purchase 13 RBU121, and to take that money out of Line Item 15-611-553. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that your budget? 15 MR. ODOM: That's my budget. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You guys have been maintaining that 18 piece of equipment since we've had it? 19 MR. ODOM: Since five years, yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. ODOM: We do all analysis, the whole thing, 22 every 200 hours and 100 hours, and send it in. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the line item? I know 24 the number. What's -- 25 MR. ODOM: It's contract fees. I believe you'll 7-13-09 95 1 see about 80-some-odd thousand in there. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the amount on this? 3 21,000? 4 MR. ODOM: 21,000. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 21,786, I believe. 6 MR. ODOM: It will not hurt us to make this work. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 11 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have an afterthought, 17 Commissioner? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I actually had a thought. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which was kind of scary. 21 You said that it was 21,000 -- 22 MR. ODOM: 21,000. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and 786? 24 MR. ODOM: 786? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I had on my deal. 7-13-09 96 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were God for the day, I 4 would want that actual number put in the -- in the court 5 order. 6 MR. ODOM: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not God. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The purchase price is 21,000, 9 the way it appears, and then the rental price for the July 10 month was 786. 11 MR. ODOM: 786 is my rental. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty-one is the actual -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see that now. 14 MS. HOFFER: We paid that 700 already. Because, 15 actually, it was due July 1st, so we paid the 700. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 17 MR. ODOM: I think that's where the 21,000 is 18 coming from. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 21,000. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 21 MS. HOFFER: I called Caterpillar. They said they 22 would allow us the two weeks to see if we could get this 23 approved and purchase it. 24 MR. ODOM: So, it should be 21,000, the way we got 25 it. 7-13-09 97 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 MR. ODOM: This really is a good buy. You can see 3 that there's no way that I could rent one, if I went out now 4 for lease, for $786. There is no way. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If you went out on the open market 6 to buy a piece of used equipment of that type with those 7 components, with that number of hours on it, what would you 8 be paying for it? 9 MR. ODOM: About 70,000. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 12; consider, 13 discuss, take appropriate action to install four no-parking 14 signs at Brinks Crossing on Center Point River Road in 15 Precinct 2, and also install four no-parking signs at 16 Waltonia Crossing on Kelly Creek Road located in Precinct 4. 17 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We've recently had two 18 complaints, one from Precinct 2, and Precinct 4, from their 19 constituents about being able to traverse those narrow 20 crossings at Brinks and Waltonia. We were asked to take a 21 look at it and see what was feasible to try to curtail some 22 of this parking. It is so restrictive, you can barely get 23 across these narrow crossings safely. So, our suggestion 24 is -- is that we place two signs on each side. And I gave 25 you those distances at each place from the center line of the 7-13-09 98 1 structures, east and west. So, at this time, we ask for the 2 Court's approval to install four no-parking signs at Brinks 3 Crossing on Center Point River Road and install four 4 no-parking signs at Waltonia Crossing on Kelly Creek Road. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Len, let me ask you a 6 question. You believe that just the "no parking" will 7 correct the situation that occurs from time to time where 8 people stop in the middle of the low-water crossing and 9 unload their picnic stuff and whatever else they unload? Do 10 you think this will correct that, or do you think we need 11 another sign that says "No stopping on the bridge" or 12 something like that? 13 MR. ODOM: Well, I guess we could. I don't know, 14 by the manual, if there's anything regulatory in that way. 15 So, there's no -- this is a regulatory sign. Well, there's a 16 state statute that's open, no swimming, fishing, or anything 17 else. The more signs you put, Commissioner, then the less 18 attention they pay to it. And if there are no parking -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be the case. 20 MR. ODOM: I'd just say that that gives the 21 Sheriff's -- I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume that would 22 give them authority, by an act of the Court, to enforce that 23 if they needed to enforce it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can also put signs that 25 says, "Beware, signs ahead." (Laughter.) Kind of thing. 7-13-09 99 1 I'm -- I'm concerned about that we're telling -- what we're 2 doing is telling people, "Don't get in the river. Don't 3 drive to Kerrville and spend all your money and get in the 4 river." 5 MR. ODOM: Well, we have looked at Brinks Crossing; 6 there's other areas for them to go to if property owners 7 would give us that availability. Commissioner Williams and I 8 have looked at that. May be some parking back off Brinks 9 Crossing there, but we haven't been able to address that. 10 We're not opposed to people parking, but it is so bad the way 11 the angle parking is, they're almost -- they're cutting the 12 approaches off to those narrow crossings. I mean, you can -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get off the road too in some 14 of those places, and get out of the right-of-way, especially 15 at Waltonia. There's a place on the -- on the 39 side that, 16 you know, they're -- the parking is so bad that they actually 17 don't park on the roadway. That's what we're trying to get 18 them to do, is stop parking on the roadway. 19 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- I'm looking at the 21 footages that you have, and it's quite a ways from -- I mean, 22 from the center of the bridge where you measure. 23 MR. ODOM: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the arrows point back 25 towards the river, I take it, so you'll -- from the sign to 7-13-09 100 1 the river, we don't -- 2 MR. ODOM: That is correct, they point toward each 3 other. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- I mean, it's just 5 looking at 400 and -- 6 MR. ODOM: You're around 700 feet. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 700-foot area right there, some 8 people have to park further away, and at Brinks Crossing, 9 doesn't that put that parking right on the corner? 10 MR. ODOM: They have to come back up on top on the 11 west side, yes, sir. There's an entrance up there. They're 12 on the west side back up on top, not coming down that hill. 13 Remember, if you have traffic coming from 173 or Wharton 14 Road, you're going to hit this coming down that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's what I'm saying. 16 MR. ODOM: Here they are right there. On the other 17 side, I stopped that sign that had some possibilities of 18 parking if we were given permission to open up some area to 19 the right and left right there, is the way we looked at 20 Brinks Crossing. When I get to Waltonia, that is so 21 dangerous if you're -- you know, you're right at the highway 22 there, and I'm trying to get up around the corner on the 23 other side. You -- you can't see that they're blocked, just 24 like you can't see it when you make that turn coming down 25 Kelly Creek to the right, the tail end's hanging out. 7-13-09 101 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just trying to keep somebody 3 from getting hurt. 4 MR. ODOM: We're not trying to stop them from 5 swimming or going down there. That's not the purpose. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same with Brinks. 7 MR. ODOM: It's health, safety, and welfare. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand the reason. I 9 know that Brinks is dangerous. I'm just seeing how this is 10 -- I mean, putting rules that people aren't going to follow, 11 I'm always worried about. And you're putting those no 12 parking signs on the south side of the river -- or north side 13 of the river, rather, at Brinks. Up -- there's people going 14 to have to walk 400 feet to get to the river, and I don't 15 know if people are going to do that. Is there a way they we 16 could let them park on one side only? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At Brinks? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problem at Brinks in 20 terms of parking is, if you're going west, to your right 21 there is no parking. 22 MR. ODOM: There is no parking. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you're coming east to 24 Brinks Crossing, if you made the curve and come down on the 25 crossing, you may recall that several years ago -- oh, about 7-13-09 102 1 probably eight or nine years ago, we did some concrete work 2 there to kind of work against the erosion. 3 MR. ODOM: Erosion. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was erosion in that 5 area, so we cemented that in, never giving any thought to 6 what it might have done over the long haul for parking, and 7 so that eliminated some parking. It just goes like this, and 8 you can't park there. And you're going up that little curved 9 embankment to a rock plateau on top, somebody's private 10 property, and so, you know, we -- whatever parking might have 11 been there before we did that is not there, and so it doesn't 12 do any good to go in and try to cut that out. Too expensive 13 to do that. So, the whole issue is people coming down that 14 curve going east, stopping in the middle of -- stopping in 15 the middle of the crossing to unload, and/or parking way out 16 and blocking traffic. I've had numerous calls about it. I'm 17 sure you have on your end too, people coming out of the 18 woods, coming out of the homestead, coming out of Comanche 19 who come across that way, going either to the airport or 20 going to San Antonio, and they -- they can't get across the 21 crossing because of people blocking it. 22 MR. ODOM: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the issue. 24 MR. ODOM: And that concrete area that we were 25 talking about, I took my pickup and turned it at an angle 7-13-09 103 1 parking to see if I could -- if that was feasible. Even that 2 little short-bed truck of mine was sticking out in the 3 roadway, so you can imagine -- you know, if -- that's 4 comparable to a car. And the only other way -- that was 5 concreted back with FEMA funds at the time that we had to -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: After 2002, I think. 7 MR. ODOM: I think it was either '01 or '02, 8 probably '02. Well, it had to be '02, because we got FEMA 9 funds. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 11 MR. ODOM: That was part of the plan to stabilize 12 that right there and keep it from washing out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you had a comment? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only -- only comment 15 I have as far as them sticking out on the road, I don't think 16 you need any signs to control that. We can control that as 17 them being a traffic hazard, and either we have it towed or 18 issue citations for that. But the no parking on the bridge, 19 I don't see them parking on the bridge. I see them doing 20 just what Commissioner Williams said; they're stopping on the 21 bridge unloading. There is a difference when it comes to 22 writing a citation or having someone towed. Are you parked 23 on the bridge or are you stopping on the bridge? And when 24 they're -- like Commissioner Letz said, they have to walk, 25 you know, 400, 500 feet with all their stuff and little kids, 7-13-09 104 1 they're not going to do that. I don't know, because of how 2 they have to park, how you're going to keep them from 3 stopping on that bridge. I don't know what we do with that. 4 This year seems to be worse at all the crossings than any 5 year I've seen in the past. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who owns the -- this is just -- 7 who owns the property to the east side of the river? Is that 8 Martin Marietta? 9 MR. ODOM: No. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the east side of the 11 river? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll call it the Highway 27 13 side of the river. Who owns -- 14 MS. HOFFER: Colvin. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Colvin owns part of it? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, and Ken Whitewood 17 owns part of it. Colvin. Colvin owns on the left side if 18 you're coming east. Ken Whitewood owns that area that -- 19 where I was talking about, the rock plateau; he still owns 20 that piece. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you get a little 23 further, it's Martin Marietta. 24 MR. ODOM: We were hoping that we could have an 25 area to the right coming back, going to the east, back up on 7-13-09 105 1 top there. And that's Whiting or Whitewood or -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I take it -- I said Ken 3 Whitewood, but it's been sold to a guy who lives in Corpus 4 Christi. It was sold. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just -- I mean, it just 6 seems to me, I mean, obviously, it's a problem we need to 7 fix, but I just don't see people parking 400 feet up on that 8 plateau area and walking down. I think it's just going to -- 9 you're going to have as dangerous a situation, to me, having 10 people walking up and down that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can bus them, with AACOG. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put in no-parking signs. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we ought to 14 encourage people to park on that rock plateau. It's not our 15 property; it's private property. They do it, but we can't 16 encourage it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- and on the Colvin side 18 of the property, that's relatively -- I mean -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't get anything parked 20 on there. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, not really. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All loose gravel and grown 23 up. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, it's part of his 25 proposed -- proposal, that area. 7-13-09 106 1 MR. ODOM: Do you want to cut down the distance? 2 You don't want to put the signs up? You know, it's up to 3 whatever the Court directs me to do. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we want to study this further, 5 gentlemen? 6 MR. ODOM: I can solve the problem as it is right 7 now. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we solved the problem, if 9 people follow the law. And I -- and not only -- I don't 10 think people are going to do that. Going to -- I mean, the 11 Sheriff writing a bunch of tickets, you know, I don't think 12 it solves the problem. I think if people follow the law, it 13 might solve it, but I just don't see people parking 450 feet 14 away from the river. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In any case, that's not the 16 case. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, I'm going to support 19 Mr. Oehler, whatever he wants to do. That's what I'm -- the 20 reason I'm here. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I'm sure glad you're 22 behind me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm behind you. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not walking out again, are 25 you? 7-13-09 107 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not yet, but you better 2 hurry. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can try, but I don't think 4 it's going to help. You can try doing it. 5 MR. ODOM: Want to ponder it a little bit? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do it. You can do it, 7 see if it works. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have signs 9 disappear, I'm telling you that. 10 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But let's do it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the item 14 as proposed by Mr. Odom. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 18 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to Item 23 13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 24 the final revision of plat for Headwaters Ranch, Phase III, 25 release the letter of credit for Phases I, II, and III, And 7-13-09 108 1 accept the maintenance bond for one year for Phases I, II, 2 and III, all located in Precinct 4. Kind of rolled a whole 3 bunch of stuff together, didn't you? 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Well, I've been told -- I 5 want to make it simpler, so I guess my explanation wasn't as 6 simple as what I'm trying to do. What we're trying -- what 7 has happened before is that we have had a revision in Phase 8 III, and this is to finalize this revision of Phase III, and 9 at the same time, release the letter of credit for $508,446 10 for all three phases and accept the maintenance bond for 11 $152,533.80 for one year, which is under their maintenance 12 for Phases I, II, and III of Headwaters Ranch. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 17 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 22 gentlemen. Let's move to Item 16; consider, discuss, take 23 appropriate action regarding the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal 24 District operating budget. I put this on the agenda. As I'm 25 sure the Court is aware, once formal action is taken by the 7-13-09 109 1 Appraisal District, this Court only has 30 days to 2 essentially disapprove if they -- if they don't wish to 3 approve it, as one of the stakeholder entities. If -- if 4 you've got no problem with it, why, we can do nothing, and 5 it'll become effective on its own after the expiration of 30 6 days, unless the stakeholder entities, a sufficient number of 7 them, disapprove it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we never had the 9 sufficient number to really do anything about it. But what 10 is the salary increase they're requesting for salary 11 increases? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're requesting 3 percent. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Three percent. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After their -- what was it 17 last year and year before? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the year before and the 19 year before. I oppose it; I can assure you of that. Doesn't 20 do us any why good without some of the others, but at least 21 -- I don't believe we're going to be able to give an increase 22 like that to our employees. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did they give last year? 24 Does anyone remember? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it was somewhere in 7-13-09 110 1 the realm of 6 or 7. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seven or 7 and a half. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what you said, Judge, 4 is if we do nothing, then that's tacit approval, right? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, if -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you don't -- you don't have to 8 take formal action to approve. Only -- if you want to take 9 any formal action, it's to disapprove, because doing nothing 10 is essentially indirect approval. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things I find -- I 12 see as interesting on here is the -- their fund 5150, Board 13 of Directors. They have a $3,000 increase there. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 500 percent? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Let me go down to my -- 16 hold on, I'll get there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which item is that, 18 Commissioner? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5150. I'm trying to get to the 20 backup. I want to see what the... It's board member 21 education -- or board of directors education. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my thoughts on this 25 are, you know, if we're -- if we're just looking at the 7-13-09 111 1 salary increase they're giving, and if it's just -- if it's 2 3 percent, I couldn't vote against that, because I hope I get 3 the opportunity to vote for 3 percent for our employees. And 4 I couldn't vote against them and then vote our 3 percent in. 5 I mean, that doesn't make sense. Of course, we're not in the 6 business of making sense. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We are in the business of 8 making sense, and by golly, I'm not going to support it, 9 after the pay increases -- you know how I feel about it from 10 the last two years. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do. Three percent 12 is probably going to be the number. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just where we differ. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. That's fine. 15 Anybody can stand up here to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I -- you know, as far as 18 us is concerned, I don't -- I don't want to ever get in that 19 position to where we have to do a big chunk again just to 20 stay up. So, if theirs is 3 percent, see -- and I still 21 don't see that, I get -- oh, I do. Forgive me. Yes, I do; 22 yeah, I have it here. But are there -- you know, it's the 23 salary? Is that the only thing we look at, the salary 24 increase? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are other issues, 7-13-09 112 1 like that thing Commissioner Letz was talking about, the 2 Board of Directors. What did you decide that was? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Education. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, we can't -- I wouldn't 5 vote against that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see their medical went up 7 significantly too, as everybody's does. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just can't -- I just can't 9 -- I don't think I'm going to oppose a 3 percent salary 10 increase, because of what I intend to do with our employees. 11 Don't know that I can, but I intend to. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that I like 13 on this, and I like them doing, is -- it's under item 5045, 14 their mapping or GIS stuff. They're partners with Kerr 911 15 and City of Kerrville and KPUB to go with one system for all 16 the entities, and that, I think -- I mean, I'm glad to see 17 that we're doing that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they provide a mapping 21 service that is as good as anybody on earth, I think. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. I think what's 23 important in the salary line item is that they are proposing 24 no merits. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7-13-09 113 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- I somewhat agree 2 with Commissioner Oehler's comments about in the past, I 3 think I wasn't a champion of them giving much higher raises 4 out there than other entities have given. This year they 5 seem to be in line, so I can't really object to it too much. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court wish to 8 offer a motion? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: To approve -- actually approve the 11 budget? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we have a motion. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 16 approve the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal District operating 17 budget. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 18 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in favor of the motion.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed? 21 (Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.) 22 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Let's go to Item 24 17; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on setting 25 dates for budgeting workshops for FY 2010. 7-13-09 114 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get out the calendar. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Here we go. 3 MS. HARGIS: I believe last year we got them done 4 in four -- four workshops. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds about right. From my 6 standpoint, Wednesdays and Fridays are the best days, the 7 clearest days that I've got. All other days, I've got 8 dockets, albeit on Tuesday, it's generally just in the -- 9 just in the morning. So, Tuesday afternoons, Wednesdays, and 10 Fridays. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tuesday afternoons is not 12 good for you, right? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday afternoon is good for me. 14 Tuesday morning is not good for me. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: So, Tuesday afternoon, Wednesdays, 17 and Fridays. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you want to start? 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, the sooner, the better. I mean, 20 we're ready. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You just opened it up to me last 22 Friday. 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: It's open -- well, it's been in there 7-13-09 115 1 for a long time. We've been waiting for your dates, but 2 everything is in there. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we doing? I've got 4 a sideways calendar here. Is that what we're doing? 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay, we -- the -- tomorrow is the -- 6 of course, the -- I mean, this Wednesday is the 15th, which 7 may be a little soon; I don't know. The 22nd is the next 8 Wednesday. We did them all on Wednesday last year. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When's our City meeting? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 29th. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 29th? 12 MS. HARGIS: I'd really like to have at least two 13 of them done in July, because it gives us a little 14 opportunity when we're doing the tax rate to have kind of a 15 consideration here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't get that optimistic. 17 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go into August. 19 MS. HARGIS: I know. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan, but -- 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, you know, the rest of the world 22 gets through in June. I know we don't like to, but it would 23 really be nice if we could be halfway through in July. Yeah, 24 the City meeting's on the 29th, that afternoon. Then they 25 start -- doesn't it start at 2:00? 7-13-09 116 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 2 MS. HARGIS: 2:00 to 5:00. We have to be out of 3 there by 5:00. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We do? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to be there for 7 three hours. I'm in favor of the morning of the 29th for 8 one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Have our jury trials gone away, both 10 of them? 11 MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning of the 29th? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm taking that off now. 15 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: 9:00? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the 22nd. 18 MS. HARGIS: 22nd would be a good time to get 19 started. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 21 MS. HARGIS: 22nd would be -- that would be the -- 22 that way we'd have two done in July. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon of the 22nd would be 24 good from my standpoint. Too hot for anything else. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Afternoon on the 22nd? 7-13-09 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30? 2:00? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make it 2:00, 'cause I've 3 got AACOG in the morning. But 2 o'clock would work. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Two o'clock will work for you, Bill? 5 Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: On the 29th, we'll make that 9:00? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22nd at 2:00 p. 8 MS. HARGIS: 2:00 p. 29th at 9 o'clock. In 9 August, the 5th is the first Wednesday. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do a -- which means our 11 regular meeting is on the 10th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And our jury trial has evaporated on 13 that date, right? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be out of state that 15 week, so I'll miss out. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about the 31st? Do two 17 that week? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of what? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 31st of July; it's a Friday. 20 MS. HARGIS: Okay, that would be fine. That's 21 great. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay, I'll miss it. 23 I'm leaving. I'll be gone the following week. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So it won't solve that problem. 25 Well, I'm gone Friday also. 7-13-09 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too. 2 MS. HARGIS: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm going to go somewhere, just 4 because. (Laughter.) 5 MS. HARGIS: Okay, we do have a retirement seminar 6 on the 4th, but we'll be back on the 5th, so we could do the 7 morning of the 5th or the afternoon. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: How's the 5th sound? 5th of August? 9 THE REPORTER: I'll be gone that week, Judge, first 10 week of August. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, that's not good. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let the record show Kathy 13 and I are not going to the same place. (Laughter.) 14 MS. HARGIS: Can we back up maybe to the 24th of 15 July? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: When? 17 MS. HARGIS: The 24th of July, to take care of the 18 fact we won't have one in that week? That'd mean we'd have 19 two in that week. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm hearing no Fridays. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No Fridays, come on. 22 MS. HARGIS: We have the 12th. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12th and the 19th? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: Afternoon or morning? 7-13-09 119 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe at -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 9:00. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm tentatively scheduled to be at a 6 juvenile law seminar on Wednesday. Let me look at Tuesday. 7 Tuesday afternoon, the 11th, would be okay for me. 8 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Okay, the 11th. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12 o'clock? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: All right. Then the next one would be 12 the 19th, and it would be done, please. That leaves us 13 plenty of time for a special, or working on it. I'm 14 aggressive here. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an AACOG day for me. 16 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to go to the 18 18th? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two o'clock the 18th? Is 21 that okay with you, Judge? 22 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two o'clock? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, works fine for me. 25 MS. HARGIS: Now, what I would propose, because I 7-13-09 120 1 think the Judge -- the Judge decides which ones were meeting 2 so we can notify them -- which parties. Kind of divide it up 3 fairly equally, where we have one big department and several 4 small ones like we did last year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Ms. Grinstead is working on 6 that now. 7 MS. HARGIS: Okay, great. Okay. So, we have the 8 22nd at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. You have the 29th in the 9 morning at 9:00. We have the 11th of August in the afternoon 10 at 2:00, and August the 18th at 2:00. Is that fine? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what's we're setting 12 up today. Now, we may -- we may do some more. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. This is just four. This is just 14 four, but last year we managed to do that in four. It is 15 open to all of you to be able to look at the A.R. budget. We 16 did away with the C.C. budget, because we really didn't use 17 it last year, so if you have changes, remember, we do them 18 all in court. Just bring your notes. If you have something 19 you wanted to talk about or need individual help, just let my 20 office know. Either Tess or I or will come over and be glad 21 to help any of you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, are we in good shape on that 23 one? Thank you, Ms. Hargis. Let's go to Item 18; 24 presentation of audit report for the office of the Kerr 25 County District Clerk. 7-13-09 121 1 MS. MABRY: Hello. I just wanted to say first that 2 I really thank Linda for her help on this audit. She's been 3 requesting one for a long time, and so we tried to be as 4 thorough as possible on this audit. She was very cooperative 5 and so was her office. I want to say that I really 6 appreciate the efforts that she does to be an advocate for 7 her employees. If there are any questions, I'd be glad to 8 answer them. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Job well done. 10 MS. MABRY: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions on this District 12 Clerk's Office audit? Okay, let's move to Item 19; consider, 13 discuss, take appropriate on acceptance of audit of the Kerr 14 County Environmental Health Department. Ms. Mabry? 15 MS. MABRY: Okay. On the department of 16 Environmental Health, I just wanted to say, basically, this 17 department is very, very well run. I was very impressed with 18 the entire staff, and especially with Julie Trevino De Los 19 Santos. She's an exceptional employee, goes above and beyond 20 her job to just do impressive things down there. And if you 21 ever get a chance to go and visit with her, you will 22 definitely see what I'm talking about. So, anyway, if there 23 are any questions on this audit, I can answer them. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything on the Environmental 25 Health? 7-13-09 122 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but I just wanted to say 2 that, don't we have some great employees? 3 MS. MABRY: We do. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Including you. 5 MS. MABRY: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. They're 7 fantastic people. Now, can I get a 4 percent raise out of 8 that deal? (Laughter.) 9 MS. PIEPER: Keep trying, Buster. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good try, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm sure they'll be built in 12 all kind of ways, Buster, before it's all said and done. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: Judge, before you finish, I just want 15 to say we really appreciate the cooperation that all of the 16 offices have given us. It's just been phenomenal, and 17 they're working with us and taking our suggestions, and we're 18 working as a team, and it's just a really -- it's been a 19 great experience for all of us. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Makes your job a lot easier, 21 doesn't it? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it does. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 20; 24 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding 25 eliminating a part-time jailer position and approving a 7-13-09 123 1 full-time clerk position in the jail. You have the money? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Currently, I think we might in 3 this year's budget. There will be about an $8,000 impact in 4 next year's budget probably because of the difference between 5 the part-time and the -- you know, it's a part-time jailer, 6 which is paid at a lot higher rate than the -- than the 7 clerk. So, it's -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I just want to save Commissioner 9 Letz some time and effort, 'cause I knew that was coming. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this is all about -- 11 Linda can even do it. We went to the direct file system 12 pretty well as of last week, week before. When they really 13 started, I've got part-time jailer positions that that person 14 has been helping out with the courts and doing this, but the 15 direct file is going to -- going to create a whole 'nother 16 deal onto the jail for getting it over immediately that very 17 next day to the clerk's office, whichever, and making sure 18 that it goes in the proper court, which is going to create a 19 full-time deal getting that done. We're averaging 10 arrests 20 a night, so it's going to create a lot more work. So what 21 I'm wanting to do is eliminate the part-time position, which 22 this person that's in that -- and I have already had 23 conversations about that's probably going to happen, and that 24 person has said there's no way they could do full-time any 25 more, and they know that I'm here today presenting it, so 7-13-09 124 1 it's not going to be a surprise that somebody's position is 2 being eliminated and create the full-time clerk. I don't 3 think we need a jailer; I think we need a clerk to sit in the 4 courtrooms with them and to make sure all that paperwork is 5 done correctly. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All this to happen 7 immediately, or as close to immediate? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I would like to do is, 9 the one position I'm eliminating, make it all effective 10 August 1st. We'll get by till August 1st to get it done, or 11 the 16th of the month. Probably the 16th would be better; 12 we're already feeling the crunch. But that would give him 13 enough time. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, the direct file thing 15 that all of y'all are goosebumply over, is that -- is that 16 going to cause any more hiring? Not in your place, but maybe 17 other places? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not in my department. I mean, 19 it's going to put a lot more work on Linda's staff, a lot 20 more burden on them. A lot more, you know, burden on the -- 21 the District Attorney's staff, there's no doubt. But the 22 biggest advantage we're seeing, and already starting it, is 23 my average jail population is down in the 120's now instead 24 of the 170's. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 7-13-09 125 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, there go some jailers. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sorry, it does not work that 3 way, okay? What you're doing -- what you're doing right now 4 is you're getting people out of jail that don't need to be 5 there to begin with. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not ending the problem 8 children that the jailers have to deal with day to day, okay? 9 That we can't -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just talking about the 11 number of jailers that you have, that you have to have for a 12 certain population. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Like I said, with the inmates 14 we have, you're going to have to have those jailers, if not 15 more. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can't take a joke at all. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not when it comes to 18 jailers. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wasn't joking. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Neither was I. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He goes on the defensive 22 pretty quick, doesn't he? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick, because my jail 24 staff is very well overworked. I think all of y'all that 25 have been over there and watch what they do can attest to 7-13-09 126 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to the dollars, there's no 3 budgetary impact this year, but there will be next year? Or 4 there -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Each year, you -- at the end, 6 the salary line items always have quite a bit left, 'cause it 7 normally goes to paying the defense attorneys as y'all make 8 budget amendments towards the end of the month -- end of the 9 year. I would expect, because I have had some openings 10 through the year -- I have a couple right now -- that the -- 11 about the $8,000 difference that it would be is going to be 12 covered in this current budget. I couldn't tell you that for 13 a fact, but I do expect that it would be covered. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you can tell me that for a 15 fact, that it's going to be in your budget, I'll vote for 16 this. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's going to be able 18 to be found in my budget, through amendments. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you commit that it will be 20 found in your budget -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will come out of my budget. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 7-13-09 127 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Long as you don't make 7 amendments to pay -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't say that. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- defense attorneys. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You could have put that in your 11 statement. You did not say that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question, 14 now. Will you go out to hire a new clerk? Or is this -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had an opening and 16 interviewed two people for that opening as of last week, 17 okay? Both of them were excellent candidates. We -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the slot you're going 19 to use? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We did hire one, so the second 21 one, I will probably offer that -- we've already gone through 22 the whole process, you know, and just offer that person a 23 position starting the 16th. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 21; 25 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding renewal 7-13-09 128 1 of Kerr County Teen Curfew for another year. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We do this each year at this 3 time. I know we don't use it that often. It is a good tool 4 as we go through, and I think it needs to stay in effect for 5 the county. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and second for approval. 9 Question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All he's doing is running 11 them into the city. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not my problem. 13 (Laughter.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 22; 20 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to request 21 unclaimed capital credits received from Electric Cooperative 22 pursuant to Section 74.602 of the Texas Property Code from 23 Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts; authorize County Judge 24 to prepare letter of request. As you recall, this is an 25 annual requirement that allows us to get these unclaimed 7-13-09 129 1 capital credits. They've got to be used for specific 2 purposes, and approval of this will allow me to send the 3 appropriate letter and request those funds to be sent to us, 4 with a representation that we'll use them for approved 5 purposes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move approval, Judge. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval. Question or discussion? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't know the amount this 11 year? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 15 by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 23; 20 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on adoption of 21 resolution in opposition to Clean Water Restoration Act. I 22 put this on the agenda after receiving a good deal 23 of communication from other counties; Kendall County, Marvin 24 Quinney down in -- Judge Quinney from Wilson County. 25 Essentially, what has happened is that the Clean Water 7-13-09 130 1 Restoration Act used to -- or currently is applicable to 2 navigable waters. The -- the pending amendment would change 3 the applicability of that act to virtually all waters. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All surface water. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Dry stream creek beds occasionally 6 get water running in them, non-navigable rivers. And, you 7 know, we've had enough problem figuring out the applicability 8 with navigable, because we've got portions of the Guadalupe 9 River, for example, in this county, portions of which are 10 classified as navigable and portions of which are not 11 navigable, and that's been a big enough problem as it is. 12 And -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I appreciate you 14 putting this on the agenda, and I'll move approval of the 15 resolution. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the agenda item to adopt the resolution in 19 opposition. Question or discussion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only quick comment is -- 21 and, to me, the only possible reason for them to go in and 22 want to re -- eliminate that word "navigable" is to do 23 exactly what everyone fears, that they're going to try to 24 exert federal control over all surface water in the country, 25 and I -- it's just wrong. 7-13-09 131 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 2 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. It is 7 noontime. We've got a few more items. Some upcoming ones 8 are going to take a little bit of time, so why don't we be in 9 recess until about 1:30. We'll be in recess till 1:30. 10 (Recess taken from 12:02 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 13 we might, after our noon recess. The next item on the agenda 14 is to -- is Number 24; consider, discuss, and take 15 appropriate action to obtain assistance from architects, 16 designers, and/or planners to assist in layout of building to 17 house Adult Probation, elements of Kerr County Sheriff's 18 Office, and/or others. I put this on the agenda subsequent 19 to the Court's action in a previous meeting suggesting that 20 we take a look at maybe transitioning out of leased space for 21 the Adult Probation Department and over-building, as it were, 22 to provide for expansion later, and in the interim, use it 23 for storage. In response to that, Commissioner Oehler and I 24 met with Chief Deputy Barton out at the Law Enforcement 25 Center. We looked at that property, we looked at the 7-13-09 132 1 Juvenile Detention Facility, and at that meeting, the -- the 2 Sheriff's Office suggested that they need now and have needed 3 for some time additional administrative space, and were 4 looking at asking the Court to either expand the law 5 enforcement building that -- that they're presently in in a 6 manner that would give them more administrative space, and 7 this gave us the opportunity to talk about building an annex 8 of sorts nearby on the law enforcement property to house 9 certain portions of -- of their function as well as the Adult 10 Probation, and -- and maybe have some additional space. As 11 it turns out, the -- the Sheriff and Chief Deputy Barton and 12 Chief Adult Probation -- 216th Probation Officer Captain 13 Clete Buckalew, got together, and they've kind of come up 14 with a plan that incorporates what they think their needs are 15 going to be in the future. I think everybody's got a copy of 16 it, don't you? I've got additional copies here if you need 17 them. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think I do. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's just a schematic sketch 20 that they've worked out. They've each got some security 21 concerns, and -- and it incorporates some common areas, 22 training, employee restroom and break room, primarily. At 23 this point, my feeling is that if we're going to go forward 24 with this project, which I think is appropriate, we need to 25 obtain professional help in assisting with making a layout 7-13-09 133 1 that incorporates those concerns, that has these elements and 2 so forth, is the most efficient and one that best utilizes 3 the space that we're -- that we're going to be building. 4 What this one that you're looking at does not include is 5 additional build-out space. I think there's two factors that 6 are going to enter into that. Number one is where we put it 7 on the property, as it relates to the -- to the property 8 lines. It's anticipated that a building of this nature would 9 be at the -- fronting on Clearwater Paseo, on the northeast 10 end of the property, but immediately behind the setback line 11 there on Clearwater Paseo. That's pretty much where we are. 12 What -- what I would like for the Court to consider is to 13 authorize Commissioner Oehler, myself, and the Sheriff's 14 Office and -- and Adult Probation people to have access to 15 professionals such as Peter Lewis, or someone of his caliber, 16 to consult with us to work on a layout if we're to go forward 17 on this thing. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cost estimates. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, is that location 20 you're talking about the northeast corner? That's not that 21 area where the -- where there's water problems, is it? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Detention -- the detention pond 23 would be behind. There would probably be a requirement of 24 maybe 18 inches, 2-foot pad built up, somewhere in that 25 neighborhood. 7-13-09 134 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Won't interfere with the 2 pond. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It won't interfere with the 5 detention pond. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put some fish in it. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Detention pond, whatever you 8 want to call it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wasn't worried about 10 interfering with the pond; I was worried about the pond 11 interfering with us. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think it will. It'll 13 be higher than the level of the pond. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have any specific cost 15 estimates. I think we need to -- we need to look at bringing 16 a surveyor in to -- or to establish those corners, and then a 17 -- a planning professional, such as Peter Lewis, who's been 18 helpful to us on a number of occasions. I can't imagine for 19 those preliminaries to be more than $5,000 to $6,000. Off 20 the top of my head, far as I know, we've got the money in 21 professional services. I notice there were some budget 22 amendments that were being offset against some of those 23 things, but I still think it leaves a considerable sum there 24 that would be available for that purpose. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I don't -- I mean, I'm 7-13-09 135 1 certainly not opposed to doing that. I think before you get 2 too far -- and at this point, you're talking about really 3 just getting very rough preliminary estimates. I don't know 4 that I even -- we even need survey information at this point, 5 any survey -- but I think what would be good to put on the 6 agenda during this interim process is the different type of 7 contracts we can enter into from a construction standpoint. 8 And I know there's -- you know, there's, I know, all those 9 different construction -- all those different types of things 10 that we can now use, as opposed to hiring an architect, 11 'cause this is more a -- this is one of those buildings 12 that's kind of -- a design-to-build type thing may work 13 almost better than the more conventional way of going out for 14 a bid. We bid a builder-slash-architect-slash-engineer, and 15 then work with them once we get on the final phase of it, 16 rather than going out for bid on a specific building. It 17 just -- it may be an option to look at some of those things. 18 At the same time, that we're trying to get a rough idea from 19 a budget standpoint of how much money this may cost. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: What I was anticipating, 21 Commissioner, would be the portion of the job that would 22 necessarily have to be bid would be the base building; i.e., 23 the slab, steel structure, exterior, walls, roof, insulation, 24 with rough-out plumbing wherever it was indicated to be, and 25 then -- of course, you'd have to -- you'd have to hire 7-13-09 136 1 professionally the electrical, the plumbing, and the HVAC. 2 But most of the build-out, I think, could be accomplished 3 with proper specs by people that we either have with 4 Maintenance, community service. I realize it's a pretty good 5 size project, but I think given an adequate amount of time, 6 why -- of course, what you'd want to concentrate on first 7 would be the Adult Probation portion, if that's the direction 8 that we go. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I don't want to get 10 caught in that same kind of catch-22 we got ought in, or are 11 caught in at the Ag Barn, that because it's a project, every 12 time we go out and buy sheetrock, we have to put it out for 13 bid. I want to be able -- I want to be able to have this set 14 up and structured so that we can get what we need to get 15 done, and then have it -- you know, the building part of it 16 may be as you say, but we need to make it real clear as to 17 what this project is and have that in a contract. And then 18 whatever we want to do in-house is fine, but we just need to 19 make sure it's -- and I don't even know if we can do that, I 20 mean, if we can split it out that way. I would think we 21 could. But I just -- we just need to be real careful because 22 of the bidding laws, the way all this stuff is now 23 interpreted, that we don't start bidding garage doors and all 24 this other stuff like we had to do out there, the stuff Tim 25 did 'cause it was part of a bigger project. 7-13-09 137 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's making a good point. 2 I'd also like to see us just keep in the back of our minds 3 that, you know, you're probably going to find costs very, 4 very reasonable right now. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of the reasons, 6 Commissioner, I started kind of pushing this pretty hard at 7 this point in time. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But look at it also 9 as -- you know, as a turnkey, everything but the furniture. 10 You know, get somebody to do even -- even do those things 11 that we're planning on doing in-house; take a peek at it. 12 You know, it may be to where we're -- you know, you're 13 guaranteed really professional work, or I think basically 14 guaranteed professional work doing it that way, and it may 15 not be the expense that we all think it is, to be honest. 16 I've got a couple of questions about the actual drawing. May 17 I go there now? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess, Clay, help me 20 understand this thing over on your side of the plate. It 21 looks like I see six narcotic offices and 10 C.I.D. offices? 22 MR. BARTON: I don't have a copy of it in front of 23 me. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's no excuse. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not going to let that be 7-13-09 138 1 an excuse for him. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Thank you, 3 Rusty. What a leader you are. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll provide it for him. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, do we have this -- I 6 know this is going to be the most stupid question ever asked, 7 Rusty and Clay. Do we have that many narcotic people? 8 MR. BARTON: No. Currently right now, there's 9 three. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three? 11 MR. BARTON: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we have six offices? 13 MR. BARTON: This was what I was -- what I was 14 asked to do for both my plan on this, and what I understood 15 the County wanted to do was to build also for future growth. 16 So -- we don't want to do like we did with the current deal, 17 and as soon as it's done, within five years, we're full. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I don't want you doing 19 that either. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the current building 21 also was built with what we had at the time. There wasn't 22 any extra offices when it was built. It was built for what 23 the department actually had, and that's what's caused us this 24 problem over 15 years. So, this one is built -- and that's 25 why you have a number of different -- we've got six C.I.D., 7-13-09 139 1 three narc. We got nine right now, okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 10 C.I.D. folks. You 3 don't have that many detectives. 4 MR. BARTON: Not currently, no, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is a future look. 6 What I'm seeing on Clete's side of it is the correct number? 7 MR. BARTON: I think Clete allowed for some growth. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says he has 14. 9 MR. BARTON: That was including growth, though, 10 Buster. Is that correct? 11 MR. BUCKALEW: Yes, that's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today. Today the department 13 employs 14 persons, it says in your letter. 14 MR. BUCKALEW: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I see what, 14 offices? 16 MR. BUCKALEW: Well, that's -- in that particular 17 office, nine officers and five support people, so what I've 18 included is four additional offices. So, three of those are 19 going to be support. 20 MR. BARTON: The support staff are in that 21 reception area marked "Reception." 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three in this part. There's 23 three in that area. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see that. 25 MR. BARTON: Currently, you have how many probation 7-13-09 140 1 officers? 2 MR. BUCKALEW: Currently in that office, there's 3 nine. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so I think it's wise. 5 I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to figure out -- 6 MR. BARTON: We tried to -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- what I'm seeing here. 8 MR. BARTON: We just tried to make the most of the 9 space and to plan for future growth so we're not in the same 10 position in five to ten years. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was telling Clay at lunch 12 today that in one of my former lives -- Rusty -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know some of your former 14 lives, Buster. I'll be careful not to -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In one of my former lives, I 16 did a study, and I found that people function and produce 17 better if they have sunlight; i.e., a window to look out of 18 and to allow light to come in. And I'm just wondering, is 19 that the case here? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Down the hallway, there may 21 be. They also have a tendency to daydream more, and, you 22 know -- I think you have how many windows in your office, 23 Buster? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Think about going fishing or 25 somewhere else. 7-13-09 141 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the offices need 3 some kind of light. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the only comment I'll 5 make, Buster, turnkey, I think, is in a lot of this. I don't 6 mind inmates doing painting, but what we have to keep in mind 7 is inmate population, and I'm sure community service -- Clete 8 may be able -- turns over rapidly, okay? And if they -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm 10 saying. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if they are not convicted, 12 okay, number one, I can't force them to work at all, 'cause 13 it will keep them in their cell area. If they're convicted, 14 then we can force them to do work up to 48 hours, but that's 15 a rapid turnover. It's great for doing, you know, lawn 16 maintenance, maybe landscape out here, maybe some painting, 17 things like that, but if you're getting into much more than 18 that, I wouldn't recommend on of this side of the project 19 that we use inmate work right off the bat. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's exactly what I'm 21 saying. I know that -- I remember one time we used -- we had 22 -- you had a rock mason in your jail, and we started on a 23 project, and that lasted about two days, and he was gone. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He was gone. He made bond; he 25 got out or whatever, and now you're stuck. 7-13-09 142 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, one other question, and 2 I -- what are y'all's thoughts about the outside, the veneer? 3 Are we going to put rock on it to make it look something like 4 the present facility? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As far as I'm concerned -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a yes? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: No-maintenance metal exterior. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Metal exterior, inexpensive, 10 nice looking building. I don't -- I don't suggest we put 11 galvaline on the outside, but -- but a color tint is fine. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you might plan on 13 putting some rock wainscoting up partway. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a little bit. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, that can always be 16 added later, too. I mean -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's 40 feet. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- as long as we 19 plan up front, I mean, I agree with the Judge's standpoint 20 on, you know, finish out, what we need to finish out, or kind 21 of between the -- finish out what we need in this project, 22 but don't spend any money on offices we don't need. We can 23 do those offices out of budget as time goes on. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When we first started this 7-13-09 143 1 conversation, I seem to recall that we were talking about 2 moving the training facility out of the Sheriff's law 3 enforcement center into this facility, and I see that. And 4 now I see some other things, you know, narc and C.I.D., 5 whatever. My question is, everything you move over here, 6 what are you going to do with the space you're vacating at 7 the Sheriff's Office? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Use it, number one. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that, but, you 10 know -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, you want to know -- 12 seriously, we still have a number of other offices that are 13 -- that are crowded and aren't being used. The training 14 facility -- training room we have now would probably be 15 turned into warrants or civil. We have no room for growth in 16 warrants and civil, okay? We have -- we still have the 17 administrative -- other administrative offices. You've got 18 patrol that's staying there. The patrol squadroom needs to 19 be enlarged a little bit. The patrol right now, I have the 20 patrol captain, the crime prevention officer, and a secretary 21 all in one little office. Those aren't moving out there. 22 They would move into some of these, so you're -- you're 23 freeing up a lot of the congestion we have now. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Also give you additional space for 7-13-09 144 1 your jail administration, which I'm told you need. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail administration would -- 3 could move up one whole row, because -- and the Judge 4 remembers this from the -- the one whole row of C.I.D. 5 offices right now would need to be taken out and expanded 6 into that evidence whole row. So, you've already, you know, 7 done away with five offices right there -- four offices that 8 have to be turned into evidence storage. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would require moving 10 all that interactive television stuff between here and the -- 11 and the law enforcement center? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not between here, okay? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From us to San Antonio? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Yes, from that -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the academy from -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Here, right. And right now, 17 they haven't -- AACOG's kind of stalemated on that; they're 18 not teaching it and everything. But I don't have any 19 problem, and I don't think they would, of moving that 20 equipment over to a bigger training room where it would be 21 really more suited. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think they have any 23 problem. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that would be a good 25 training room. It would about double the size of the 7-13-09 145 1 training room, to where a lot of agencies in the county use 2 this, and some of their training stuff where we could use it 3 a lot better. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, I think 5 getting -- we need -- the first step, based on this, get a 6 preliminary policy. We probably almost need, in my mind, to 7 wait till budget, because looking at -- my calculations show 8 over a million dollar building any way you look at it. You 9 can build it -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12,000 square feet. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12,000 square feet for $80 with 12 all that computer stuff. $80 a foot is $960,000. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Shouldn't be that much. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Either that, or size could be 16 cut, too. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, either way. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We started out proposing 19 something much less than what you see here. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. What I see here is, to 21 me, a million-dollar building, plus, and I think we need to 22 look at the budget considerations of doing something like 23 this. And even if it's 800,000 or if it's 1.4 million, I 24 mean, it's still -- it's a million-dollar project by the time 25 all is said and done, I bet. And -- but let's spend a little 7-13-09 146 1 bit of money to get a rough -- get a real number for that, 2 and then -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm all for getting real 4 numbers, real close numbers. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think one of the things 6 you have to look at, though, in that is this time frame. I 7 don't know what we're going to talk about on the Thad Ziegler 8 deal, but, you know, we just have a few months left over 9 there. We -- I don't know if we can do what you're talking 10 about. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we -- Judge, can you 12 call that so we can intertwine these two things together? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I could. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will you? "I could, but I'm 15 not." (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought that's where he 17 was heading. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, let me just make one 19 comment on trying to get a cost. I think with some 20 professional help, we may be able to further refine this to 21 something that meets these needs, but may give a little bit 22 clearer picture of what those costs need to be based on, so 23 that that would give us the ability to really, then, lay it 24 in front of somebody to get some closer cost figures. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 7-13-09 147 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess what -- what I'm suggesting 2 at this point is -- is I'm not talking about a full-scale 3 design. I'm just talking about some -- some planning and 4 layout help to get something a little bit tighter than this. 5 Maybe we don't need it; I don't know. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need something. I 7 would -- to me, we need a builder more than we need an 8 architect at this point. We need someone like Steve Huser or 9 Mike Lowe, or, you know, others to see the cost per square 10 foot of this building. We can shrink it -- yeah, we can 11 shrink it down some, but we're not going to shrink it a whole 12 lot and make it worthwhile doing it, in my mind. And I think 13 the -- yes, it's going to take a lot better, you know, 14 traffic flow and all that other -- people movement and all 15 that kind of stuff before we, you know, pull the trigger on 16 something like this. But I think construction cost, to me, 17 is the most critical thing right now on a per-square-foot 18 basis, and I think that can be relatively easy to come up 19 with. And we'll find out real quick if this is going to be a 20 $500,000 project or a million dollar or 1.5 million, and then 21 it becomes a budget issue much more than a design issue. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Becomes a budget issue any way you 23 go. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, but it's a bigger 25 budget issue. I think the other part we need to look at 7-13-09 148 1 that -- and just -- but we need to get a real number from 2 someone who's a professional doing buildings like this. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But don't you -- 4 don't you think this builder's got to have something to go 5 on, though? I'm not sure -- I'm not sure this is it. I 6 mean, Clay, I love you and all that, but my gosh, some old 7 chicken walked across mine. I guess -- I don't know. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, I mean, as long as 9 we don't spend a whole bunch of money on how we do it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, you got three of them ganged 11 up against you out there that worked on this. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We all thought Clay did a 13 great job. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Speaking of the pistols on 15 their hips, I agree with you guys. I'm on y'all's side. 16 What side are y'all on? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The opposite one you're 18 normally on. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. That was a former 20 life. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to keep the 22 builders out of it at this point. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to get -- we need to 25 get a schematic drawing of what it is we're wanting to build 7-13-09 149 1 and get it scaled. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And then lay it in front of -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we can go and poke 5 around with a few of the builders and say, "What can you 6 build this building for?" And give us a ballpark. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we got somebody like -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, and they can give 9 us a rough idea of what it costs and see whether we can 10 afford this building or whether we are just -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Whistling. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- whistling whatever they 13 whistle down in Center Point. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we get the right kind -- 15 get the right kind of person up front, we can get some 16 estimates of cost, too. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a real problem. I 18 just don't see the point in spending money where we can make 19 a phone call and find out the cost. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've already found the cost 21 for a basically metal building. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I know, but we want a 23 metal building with a finish out of a slab, bathrooms, 24 plumbing, electrical, computers, and all that sheetrock, and 25 I think -- 7-13-09 150 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they don't know what 2 they're bidding, how we can do that? I mean, it makes a 3 difference every time you build a wall. Need to establish 4 where the walls are going, where the windows are going to be 5 and all that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Needs to have a design. As 7 soon as we decide to do it, we're going to throw that money 8 away and do a new design. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With due respect to the 10 designers of this so far, there may be better ways to do it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I agree with that. Square 12 footage-wise, I think there's a change; you're going to end 13 up with this many offices and this much square footage. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we call Item 26 at this 16 point? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a great idea, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Which I will do now, which is 19 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on amendment to 20 lease for the Thad M. Ziegler Building which is currently 21 being used for the Adult Probation department. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question. Might 23 be the same question as Commissioner Baldwin; I'm not sure. 24 How much time does that lease give us to work on this? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty darn close to the 7-13-09 151 1 same. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can tell you what 3 your options are. Number one, you can elect to bail out of 4 there come September 30, which I don't think is a viable 5 option. We've got one proposition on the table which is a 6 one-year lease with two consecutive one-year options, 90-day 7 notice, I believe. Isn't that correct, Rex? We've had that 8 option. Rex went back to the property owner's 9 representative, and we got a six-month option at 3,500 a 10 month, whereas the one-year's 3,167. And we can follow that 11 with an 18-month option for, I presume, the 3,167. Or we can 12 do the -- I presume a 12-month renewal; I would think that 13 would have the two one-year options behind it, as per the 14 current one, but if we want to bail out at the end of the six 15 months, we can give 45 days notice and pay a month's rental 16 penalty, which is -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long does it take to 18 build this? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on when you start. 20 Not very long. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nine months. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Huh? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. To finish out the stuff 24 inside, you're talking about building a metal shell, that's 25 three weeks. The inside -- 7-13-09 152 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you seen how fast that 2 -- you know, Huser put up Fuddruckers? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's put up. Is it open? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just about open. They 5 haven't been working on it 45 days. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe a little longer than 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not much. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forty-six. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They flew in there -- I mean, 11 you know, that's a big commercial building that's going to go 12 in there, and he's getting paid well for doing that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bet he is. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, I don't 15 think it will be six months. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, good gosh, no. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That answered it for me. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're talking about stud 19 walls with sheetrock on. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're going to talk about 21 computer wires and lots of electrical, plumbing. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it shouldn't take 23 that long. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bet it will take six months. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From the time we get through 7-13-09 153 1 what we're doing today to start, probably so. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we took that option, 3 which I like, we'd have six months -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: To bail out. That's 45 days. I 5 think that's probably the best one. If we can basically do 6 the deal that was laid in front of us initially, three 7 one-years -- or a one-year lease with two one-year renewal 8 options, and then a bailout clause at the end of six months 9 in the first year, paying a month's penalty. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We also -- we're not in the 11 time that we were in a year ago when building around here was 12 going berserk. You couldn't get anybody to work; they were 13 all busy. You're going to find concrete guys are going to be 14 pretty quick on the job. You're going to find those metal 15 building companies aren't spitting out metal buildings like 16 they did for a long time. You're going to see things that -- 17 people that are working to get it done. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Steel price is down considerably. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you, we've got this -- 20 just for an example, bridge projects, they're bidding those 21 things just to have work to keep their employees. They 22 aren't even putting in a profit on them hardly; they're 23 trying to keep their company alive, keep their employees. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a good time to do it. It, 25 you know, still takes time to -- 7-13-09 154 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It does. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to schedule -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get it all nailed down, what 4 we want to build. We got to find what we want to build 5 before we -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we get into the 7 design-build option, as Commissioner Letz brought to us, and 8 accomplish what you and I would like to see done, a more 9 refined plan, without a commit -- full commitment to go all 10 the way? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not without a penalty of some 12 sort. If we're going the design-to-build route, you're going 13 to build it. You just have more flexibility. You don't have 14 to -- in, you know, working on it, and I think some of the 15 prices. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could design-build and 17 award it without going out for bid. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any way you do it, you're going 20 to have to bid it. That right there is two months. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You've got -- you're going to 22 have to do a bid off of something. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, design your building -- 24 you're bidding the companies that do that kind of work. 25 You're not -- you don't need a drawing, per se. They develop 7-13-09 155 1 the drawing as part of the project. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They do that, and then it 3 goes out to bid. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're bidding for the 5 contractor and the price. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You're effectively advertising for 8 bids at that point. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And we -- it may turn out we don't 11 want to do that. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the budget 14 consideration -- I think in about a month from now, we'll 15 know if -- or probably close to a month, budget-wise, whether 16 we're going to be able to do it or not. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on how you -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we just need to wait. 20 You're still going to have a budget impact. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, because of time 22 constraints, I'd like to get this in front of a planning 23 professional to give us something a little bit more definite, 24 with the players to have input to that professional, and -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Want to put a time constraint 7-13-09 156 1 on it? Are we going to drag this out for six months before 2 we get started? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'll put a short -- I feel like 4 I could -- I can do that with Peter. Peter's been very, very 5 cooperative. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I know. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter goes right to the 8 builder. He doesn't know this information; he's going -- 9 he'll draw something on paper and he's going to give it to 10 Mike Lowe, probably. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, that's typically 12 what he does. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's how any 14 architect's going to do it, 'cause they're not builders. 15 They don't know the costs. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Offer a motion, somebody. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The agenda item would be -- 18 I mean, you can tell a lawyer wrote this thing. There's room 19 here to do anything. You can start a zoo. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see anything 21 mentioned in that about dogs. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, dog parks. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: This is the zoo. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve the 25 agenda item. 7-13-09 157 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second your motion. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that includes -- that 3 includes architects, designers, and planners? Or architects 4 or planners or designers. That's what it says. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we have a survey to determine 6 the property corner? 'Cause I think we're going to have to 7 know that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we need that? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We don't know it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We may be in a problem with this 150 11 foot. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not corners of the building, 13 the corners of the property. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. I'm saying 15 -- you know -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's locate it. They're out 17 there somewhere. Have them reestablished. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we get that -- 19 didn't we get some idea what that was all about when we were 20 looking at that piece of property next to it? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We know where it is on paper. We 22 just don't know where it is on the ground to try and 23 determine. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want to propose to 25 build something over on some other person's property. 7-13-09 158 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we don't want to do 2 that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Setback. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to include in my 5 motion that I would prefer that County Surveyor -- a surveyor 6 to determine legal boundaries. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of that one corner, or the 8 whole -- just the one corner? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We kind of know the rest of 10 it. I guess that one corner. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say the two points on 12 that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On that north -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Northeast. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Front and back. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right down to the street and 19 back over by Schreiner. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with you. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we'll know where the 22 line is. Hopefully nobody will tell you that -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a mark on the one by 24 Schreiner there. It's along that fence; I saw it a few 25 months ago. 7-13-09 159 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know where it is? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Pretty close, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, then we just need to 4 establish the one. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, the detention pond is an 6 issue in that, you know, it was built so many years ago, it 7 doesn't hold much water, and it overflows every time it 8 rains. Anyhow, I'm not sure that the City's not going to 9 require something to be done with it to bring it up to what 10 it should be. And now that they did all that re-drainage 11 across the road, I don't know what's going happen with that, 12 or if it's in the right location or not any more. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's one reason we need to 14 be looking at this now, because there may be some 15 requirements that should be imposed across the road. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you're possibly right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause I think there's been some -- 18 some restriction of those drainage flow areas. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Actually, they opened 20 them up, which I think may even do away with -- a lot of 21 that's open. That one small drainage area is open alongside 22 our property line, you know, the -- that pie side, you know, 23 the far -- kind of south side -- north side. You may not 24 even have to have that pond; I don't know, because of how 25 much they opened up that drainage deal on the other side of 7-13-09 160 1 the road. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, there's a resource in 3 the back of the room. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he's here. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couldn't resist, Gordon. He 6 doesn't have any information to be able to know what we're -- 7 detention ponds, all that. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We tried to get the City to 9 come out there last year during the rain, and they haven't 10 shown up yet. Because it overflowed into -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't had any rain. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This was over a year ago, 13 okay? Because if it always overflows into the parking lot. 14 That's why I'm saying it's been a long time to get them to 15 look at it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Buster, on your motion, 17 are you going to put any dollars on this, or are we just 18 going to spend as much as we want? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't think that -- 20 I don't think that that's a question. Are you going to go 21 just spend all you want? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- I wouldn't know a 24 dollar figure, and neither do you. You know, we're talking 25 about here in Kerrville, not down in Comfort. 7-13-09 161 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that just -- I mean, I -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the second one today. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's different levels -- 4 this thing -- I mean, I think we need to have a clear idea of 5 what we're trying to get, and that will determine the cost. 6 You talk about a lot of different things. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk to an architect and a 8 surveyor. What else? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get a proposal as to what 10 they're going to charge? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No, get -- get a refined layout that 12 incorporates those needs. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talking 5,000? 10,000? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what do you want? A 15 number. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Cap it at six. That's my top. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to exceed six? Is that 18 what you want? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If I can work within that, I 20 don't see any problem. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't either. We can get 22 it done for less; 2,500, I hope. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think you can get 24 it for that. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you don't know. We 7-13-09 162 1 might. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Might be surprised. If we get -- 3 get Peter between us, we might. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not to exceed $6,000. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. 7 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 8 by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. Let's 13 talk about the lease now. What are we going to do with the 14 lease? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the six months deal, 16 and let's roll the dice out there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Penalty. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get the thing built. Let's 19 get this thing built and get going. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Try it out. Throw it out 24 there, see what happens. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. 7-13-09 163 1 MS. HARGIS: There's no way we can get it done -- I 2 mean, even if you got it built, you got to get the money. If 3 we have to do other types of financing, it's going to take a 4 couple months to do that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't worry about the mule; just 6 load the wagon. 7 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go, Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The six-month deal -- the 10 six-month deal has that extra time with it, 45 days or 11 something like that, right? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we got a 45-day notice -- what 13 we have from today, we've got eight and a half months from 14 today. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Before the end of that six-month 17 period. And if you're going to go beyond that, you just roll 18 out the end of that year. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's the reason she 20 should not be worrying about that, because there is time out 21 there to do this? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to make this thing 23 happen October 1, no. 24 MR. EMERSON: You really have seven months on the 25 six-month. 7-13-09 164 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 2 MR. EMERSON: By the time you back off on the 3 notice provision, there's seven months to make a decision. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But if it stretches out for a 5 period of -- of considerable length, you just run out to the 6 end of year, you don't take the penalty. You got three 7 different options available to you. That was a motion, you 8 said? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: With the six-month bailout with the 11 penalty, the third option? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the one I like. Yes, 13 sir, it's a motion. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Question or 16 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 17 your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's see if we 22 can fill in the blanks here. Item 25, consider, discuss, 23 take appropriate action on reviewing the status of interlocal 24 agreement for City of Kerrville concerning Subdivision Rules 25 and Regulations in the ETJ. 7-13-09 165 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was that that sheet of 2 propaganda that you had earlier? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess it's going to 4 relate to that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me go get mine. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we all got a copy of -- 7 well, first, back up. Since we last met, I think I had a 8 meeting with the City Manager, some of the City staff, where 9 I presented a map that showed areas, divided the ETJ up into 10 City/County area -- jurisdictions. They took that map. It 11 was about three weeks ago, and I believe they then had a City 12 Council meeting or workshop where they worked on it, and what 13 we have before us is what the City has sent back, which is 14 quite different than what -- the map that I had. Just to 15 make a little bit of -- just to show you, the yellow on this 16 map is what I had as the County jurisdiction, and the yellow 17 on the middle map is what the City has as the County 18 jurisdiction. They are a lot different, but then again, they 19 really aren't a whole lot different in areas. 20 We received this proposal back from the City at 21 5 o'clock, almost -- 4:30 on Friday, and I don't -- I'm not 22 prepared to really, you know, spend a whole lot of time on it 23 today, other than I'm glad we got a response from the City, 24 and it -- I'm very happy that we seem to be proceeding down 25 the road of dividing up the ETJ into City jurisdiction and 7-13-09 166 1 County jurisdiction, and getting on with our own business and 2 their business. Their map is of such a scale that they sent 3 back that I think we really need to incorporate existing 4 subdivisions, CCN's, topography, the roads, things of that 5 nature, to really look at it, and -- and then kind of look at 6 it, and I guess discuss it on the 29th. Possibly next time 7 we're going to be with City Council. It seems to me we're at 8 that point. 9 I was a little disappointed that City Council went 10 ahead and went as far as they went on this and sent us a full 11 proposal when we never have seen anything. And they sent us 12 a new contract, so -- you know, I guess they did that because 13 they imposed a deadline on this process to be finished by 14 tomorrow. And I think it's a little bit unreasonable for the 15 City to think that we're going to look at something in a 16 matter of hours that they took three weeks to create. And I 17 think it's actually optimistic that we -- we can just talk 18 with Len Odom about this, obviously, if we need to. Each of 19 the Commissioners need to look at it. I really think we 20 probably need a workshop on the county side, and then meet 21 with the City Council on the 29th, and if the City chooses to 22 throw it out, want it to go to arbitration because they took 23 three weeks, well, it doesn't -- the City can do that. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm? 7-13-09 167 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see on here Kerrville 2 jurisdiction and Kerr County jurisdiction, same color? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I saw that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a trick? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think what we see is the 6 yellow is the county jurisdiction, and the other parts of the 7 city jurisdiction came out all one color. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The white's the city? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think white's the city. 10 MR. BROWNING: Yeah, that's correct. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not two shades of yellow? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the basic, I think, 15 philosophy -- this is why I say I think, while the maps are 16 somewhat different, there are a lot of similarities. We 17 started out -- my plan was if it was an existing CCN or 18 existing subdivision, I kept it under county authority, and 19 then we looked at the undeveloped areas, and I kind of looked 20 at roads, topography, and what I thought likely development 21 would be there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me why it's so 23 important to you about the CCN. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The CCN's aren't that important 25 to me. They're really brought into the whole mix by Kevin 7-13-09 168 1 Coleman, and the reason is, in a CCN, the City will not 2 provide the water or the sewer -- or not provide the water, 3 anyway. And because it's under -- so it kind of goes -- it 4 goes hand-in-hand with the existing subdivisions. It's just 5 like the area of Kerrville South, goes into that category. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, a subdivision that's out 7 in the ETJ that's a CCN, whether it's Aqua Texas, or -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Wiedenfeld. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Wiedenfeld or the guy 10 from Harper or whatever -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's a CCN, city -- I 13 mean, what would they -- why would they want to establish any 14 kind of control in there? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that was how we had the 16 map that I gave to the city. On their map, it appears to 17 me -- and the scale's real difficult, because it's so small, 18 but that there are some CCN's that are in their areas, and 19 I'm -- I don't know why they did that. I mean, it was -- 20 they were the ones -- it was Kevin Coleman came out with 21 originally one of the proposals to exclude the CCN's in the 22 subdivisions. This map that we received this time is -- has 23 the benefit of Council's input in addition to City staff's 24 input, I believe. And I think it's a -- maybe just a matter 25 to try and make it more simple. 7-13-09 169 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gordon, you want to fire a 2 shot at that? 3 MR. BROWNING: I'm sorry? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you address my 5 question? If you don't want to, that's fine. I understand. 6 My question is, with a subdivision out in the ETJ that has a 7 CCN, say Aqua Texas is out there doing it; why would you want 8 to get involved in it? I mean, what -- why? 9 MR. BROWNING: The -- we can, and do in some 10 instances, still require them to build that system to our 11 standards. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 13 MR. BROWNING: Uh-huh. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Over and above. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about if it's existing? 16 MR. BROWNING: If it's existing, that's a problem. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what? 18 MR. BROWNING: It presents a problem. And -- but 19 we can still require our subdivision ordinance fire flow 20 requirements in those subdivisions. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I was thinking only 22 just existing -- 23 MR. BROWNING: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- subdivisions, but never 25 even thought about something new. 7-13-09 170 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this is -- this is what I 2 think the -- one of the big issues in this is that if 3 somebody comes into an existing subdivision and does a -- two 4 or three revisions and it's in a CCN, there's a revision of 5 plat. Is the City, you know, going to require fire 6 suppression or a fire system to be installed, at least in 7 that area? And that's always been one of the big talking 8 points, and that's something that -- 9 MR. BROWNING: And it still is a big point. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still is a big talking point. 11 And it's just a matter of -- it's where you draw the line. I 12 mean, I think that, in my opinion, if it's one person 13 dividing a lot into two or three, there should be no 14 requirement to do an upgrade. If they're -- you know, if 15 it's a developer that goes in and buys 20 lots and then 16 starts redoing all that, yes, it does make sense. And that's 17 why we are still discussing this matter. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Gordon. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't go away. Let me ask 20 a question. In the letter that accompanied this map, -- 21 MR. BROWNING: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Point Number 1 talked 23 about the Council reaching consensus on the following, 24 provided to the County for its acceptance a map depicting a 25 line of demarcation defined as the authority of the City and 7-13-09 171 1 the County to be used as a basis... blah, blah, blah. That 2 line is based on the following rationale. One, existing ETJ 3 line. Okay, that's Point Number 1. Point number 2 talks 4 about the draft map as attached, and some of the same 5 language, but it goes on to say, as defined by the proposed 6 alternative line depicted on the attached map. Now, what 7 have we got here? The one that's existing, or an 8 alternative? And, if so, where is it shown? 9 MR. BROWNING: The existing line is the ETJ line. 10 This is the alternative. The alternative is the yellow 11 highlighted areas that would come out of our jurisdiction. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, anything that's 13 in yellow within that -- 14 MR. BROWNING: The darker -- yeah, the darker 15 yellow within that green line. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Within that green line, 17 okay. Anything that's yellow within the green line is 18 county, and anything that's white within the green line is 19 city. 20 MR. BROWNING: It's a pale yellow, but it's 21 white -- it shows up more white on your map. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of see this as a good 24 starting point, actually. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's very close. 7-13-09 172 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a few areas that I 3 don't understand. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you responsible for 5 this? 6 MR. BROWNING: Oh, we're -- we had a hand in it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're saying good things; 8 it's okay. 9 MR. BROWNING: There was quite a few of us working 10 on it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's some very good reasons 12 why there's some differences between the proposal we sent and 13 this, and why they made some changes. I have some questions 14 in a few areas, and I really -- and I guess maybe I'll call, 15 or maybe -- you know, what's the next step from the City's 16 position? Do you have any idea? 17 MR. BROWNING: No, sir, I actually don't. I 18 suspect that, from what I've heard from both sides, is that 19 there'll be more discussion on the 29th. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 29th, on this issue. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's probably -- our 22 plan was really to have a workshop so we can come up with a 23 map, is probably our next step, as opposed to the map that I 24 used; I drew a map, but I didn't have input from the rest of 25 the Court. 7-13-09 173 1 MR. BROWNING: I think we're all looking forward to 2 an agreement. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we're getting very, 4 very close. Conceptually, we're in agreement on how to do it 5 now, and also most of the areas. So -- 6 MR. BROWNING: Okay, thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, I think we've been 9 working on this for what, four years? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we worked on it for a 11 while and we were -- we've been working on this phase of it 12 for nine months. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 34, 35 years. So, don't let 14 him get carried away on this dog park thing, okay? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that going to be in the 16 ETJ? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the what? It could be 18 in the white portion. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The white portion. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe it is in the ETJ. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we just cede that to them? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an idea. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The City now owns a new dog 25 park. 7-13-09 174 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, are we through with that item? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Got anything more on it? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving forward. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 27, then; 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on professional 7 printing of the FY 2009-2010 budget book. 8 MS. HARGIS: Tracy's going to do a Power Point. 9 I'm going to let her talk about it just a little bit. 10 MS. SOLDAN: I've e-mailed most -- I think all of 11 the department heads asking for their input on department 12 descriptions and that sort of thing. We'd like to add more 13 to the budget books and make them available to post on the 14 web site for the public to view, to be more transparent, to 15 have -- to meet with G.F.O.A. and the Comptroller's standards 16 of the way things are going. So, I have a Power Point 17 presentation to show you on what some of the pages might look 18 like and some of the content that I'll put in it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As usual, we don't get to 20 watch. Thank you, Rex. Rex cares. 21 MR. EMERSON: Hey, it's budget time. Anything for 22 you guys. (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's how it works, too. 24 Have I talked to you about dinner tonight? 25 MR. EMERSON: Ravioli out of a can. 7-13-09 175 1 MS. SOLDAN: So, we've got some information about 2 the Judge and the Commissioners. I'd like to add a map of 3 the precincts and saying who the Commissioners are, a little 4 bit of information on where Kerr County is. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. 6 MS. SOLDAN: Yeah? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Would someone in the public be able 8 to zoom in and be able to determine which street or highway 9 the boundary between, say, 2 and 3 run down, or 1 and 2 run 10 down? 11 MS. SOLDAN: Not with this map, but if I could get 12 a better map, maybe. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: 911. 14 MS. SOLDAN: Again, just location of where we are, 15 what the average climate is, what the population has been. 16 And when the census comes out in 2010, we can get another -- 17 next year, get another bar up there. I'd like to put some 18 history in there so that people who are not living in this 19 area that might be considering it would know a little bit 20 more about it, or even people that live here might not know 21 some of the history that's -- and then these would be the 22 pages before each department's budgets that would talk about 23 what that department does, with a picture. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. And you're going to 25 charge people for this? 7-13-09 176 1 MS. SOLDAN: No, there's no charge for this. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 3 MS. SOLDAN: I just added a couple of departments 4 here to show you. And so we'd have a page for each 5 department. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See Pat? Pat's in there 7 twice. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: As it should be. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As it should be. 10 MS. SOLDAN: So, I've done some research on other 11 government entities' budget books, and so I've taken some 12 things from those, and I'm trying to incorporate it into 13 ours. 14 MS. HARGIS: Really just trying to -- one of the 15 things that we've -- you know, the transparency thing with 16 the Controller's office, but also the way that we print them 17 now, it's very difficult to read what comes off of our 18 printers, even though we make it as clear as we can. And 19 this gives us a nice document on the web. It also 20 provides -- we're going to have some printed for all of the 21 department heads; not a lot, just enough for each one of you 22 and for each department head, and these are good tools to 23 have. I mean, I've been making binders, which, you know, we 24 spent about as much time and about as much effort, and this 25 is a permanent document that we want, and it also helps us 7-13-09 177 1 with our notes for the audit. We'll prepare a lot of the 2 notes for the audit of things we've done, our accomplishments 3 and things of that nature, which will kind of roll into our 4 management and discussion letter. So, it's kind of a preempt 5 to that, and getting us to where we're G.F.O.A. compliant so 6 that, you know, some day that we wanted to send a book in -- 7 I know the Judge doesn't think we need to, but we could get 8 an award. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You want me to tell them the story? 10 MS. HARGIS: No, I don't. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: But I just think it's -- it's just a 13 step towards making it more of a professional document, 14 something that you can have that's easier to read, easier to 15 deal with. And if you don't want to look at your computer, 16 you've got a good document to go with. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this something you print 18 in-house, or you have to send it out? 19 MS. HARGIS: We're going to send it out to have it 20 done. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Cost estimate? 22 MS. HARGIS: Huh? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Cost estimate? 24 MS. HARGIS: Depending on -- we've said 60 books; 25 we don't know if we need 60. About 2,500 to send them out 7-13-09 178 1 for 60. And we've been spending close to 2,000 on what we've 2 been doing out of my budget to prepare the books, so it's 3 not -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't realize we've been spending 5 that much out of your budget. 6 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- who do we go to? 8 MS. HARGIS: Who, the books? You guys got three of 9 them last year, even though we took the pages back from you 10 last year and tried to do them, and then each department head 11 got one. And then the clerk's office gets one so that she 12 has it on file. We can -- you know, we can narrow the number 13 of books down. We just -- we just needed a number to get out 14 there to see how many we really needed. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Traditionally, we have offered them 16 to the public, or given some, as opposed to a dollar a page, 17 and I think Jannett has brought that to us every year to 18 establish the cost to the public for the budget. I guess 19 that was a -- we'd have enough to sell there, too, wouldn't 20 we? 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, because it's on the web, they 22 can print them out themselves, print out the page, so I 23 really think -- if they do come in and want one, we have -- 24 we'll get one that's not bound, and then she can just, you 25 know, easily print off of that. So, part of it is the 7-13-09 179 1 colored pages. This is the first year setting it up, getting 2 it ready and things of that nature. Takes a little bit more 3 effort the first year to get it done. It's also a good tool, 4 like, for myself; when you first move here, you don't really 5 know who your elected officials are. If we -- and we now 6 have everybody's picture, so that -- you know, a lot of 7 people are running for election. It gives people -- you 8 know, they go on our web site; they see who's running. Do I 9 know them? Do I not know them? Little bit about the job so 10 they can make better decisions, hopefully. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Printed locally or printed 12 out somewhere else? 13 MS. HARGIS: Locally. 14 MS. PIEPER: I thought all of our information was 15 on the web site. 16 MS. HARGIS: I think each of you have a web page. 17 Mine's not very good. I think if you spend a lot of time on 18 your page, it has been, but it's not in the budget book. The 19 budget book was just strictly plain documents. It's a little 20 bit hard to -- to look at on the web, because you've got to 21 page down. It's about 200 pages. So, if you have it fixed 22 more by category, then that person looking for a particular 23 section of the budget, then it's a little bit easier to do. 24 It's -- you know, I just -- I believe it's a better looking 25 document. It goes with the transparency and falls more in 7-13-09 180 1 line in putting us on the map as the county that they want to 2 be, and we need to put it out there so people can see it. We 3 don't have any -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You would really like to send it in 5 to G.F.O.A. too, wouldn't you? 6 MS. HARGIS: Not for a while. We probably got 7 three years before we get all the data in there for that. 8 There's a lot of extra geographic data. But once we get all 9 this data compiled, these things, we can use it for grants 10 and a lot of things. A lot of the departments can use the 11 data in the back of it by just, you know, printing those 12 things up for -- for grants, because it's going to have what 13 our tax rate is combined with all the other entities, what 14 the water situation is here. There's a lot of data that goes 15 behind it. It's about 25 pages that can be used for grants. 16 It's a typical question asked for grants, and they call it -- 17 you know, a lot of -- a lot of counties put that as 18 supplemental information in their audits. We don't do that, 19 but some of them do, but we haven't gone to that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about a 21 printing process or a color copying process? 22 MS. HARGIS: A printing process. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you ought to 24 investigate color copying, and there's a shop here in town 25 that a lot of folks know about and use that does color 7-13-09 181 1 copying at a much lesser charge, and the quality is just as 2 good. 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, we just got a price to bring it 4 to you. We'll do the best that we can before we get it 5 printed. It's going to take us a little while. We have 6 books that we're going to prepare for you, and then everybody 7 else can still go out on -- in Incode and look at their 8 budgets. It will take us about a month afterwards, because 9 we have to get the budget approved and then printed. So, 10 we're trying to get moving now, unless -- 'cause the pages 11 will change as we move all the way up to the end. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds to me like we really 13 don't have a say in it; she's just going to go do it, just 14 like she does everything else. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I was unaware that -- that the cost 16 for what we've had heretofore was almost the same amount. I 17 didn't -- had no idea that that cost was running that high. 18 And -- and you've also got the labor factor that's involved 19 in it, and -- 20 MS. HARGIS: That's why we went -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you can get about the same thing 22 professionally done for just a few bucks more. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't -- I never really 24 thought about it, but that's why we've gotten away from so 25 many copies on the Court, because it was so expensive, and is 7-13-09 182 1 so much paper in the budget. You know, I don't -- I think -- 2 I question the need for, you know, anything more than a 3 bare-bones budget book. I don't think that the public as a 4 whole, you know, looks at our budget books, and those that do 5 are going in for specific reasons with specific -- we've got 6 to be very transparent, and that's good. A lot of the 7 information you're talking about I think is good to have on a 8 web site or in a document, a county document. If it's in the 9 budget book, I guess it can go in that same document. Price 10 isn't all that much. But, I mean, we -- we got to have the 11 budget available for everyone, and there needs to be a 12 certain number of hard copies around. And doesn't -- and it 13 doesn't cost that much more, you know, to get it 14 professionally done than doing it in-house, so I don't mind 15 doing that. I do agree with Commissioner Williams that 16 copying something in a book this large, with -- really, most 17 of these numbers in it, copying them and getting them bound 18 outside to me is a better option than spending a whole lot -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we can cut the 20 cost, seriously. If you'll talk to me afterwards as to who 21 does that in town, -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- I think you can cut the 24 cost by providing good originals and doing the color copying 25 process with a binder -- you know, being bound -- loose-leaf 7-13-09 183 1 bound type thing, instead of a tighter bind. I think you can 2 do it for not more than what you're spending, maybe even 3 less. 4 MS. HARGIS: We tried doing it on the GPS type of a 5 situation when we punched all the little holes and did the 6 binder. The first year, it took us more -- we were up here 7 for hours. I mean, we just -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's you trying to do it. 9 If you let somebody who has the equipment do it, they can do 10 it in minutes. 11 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't realize that mission 13 statements were part of the Auditor's job. All the other 14 elected officials and department heads -- 15 MS. HARGIS: They're not part of our job. We 16 suggested it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I suggest you're taking time 18 to do that. 19 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, we just -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, you're not taking time to 21 do that? 22 MS. HARGIS: I don't understand the question. 23 Would you like to rephrase the question to me? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be happy to. There has 25 been time spent in your office; somebody is doing mission 7-13-09 184 1 statements for all elected officials and department heads, or 2 most of the elected officials. When did that become part of 3 the Auditor's duty and job? 4 MS. HARGIS: We've been developing the book, and in 5 coordination with the other books that we have, and some of 6 the books had mission statements. We have not given anybody 7 more than three or four lines as a suggestion. We -- if they 8 didn't want it -- the page we sent them was simply a 9 suggestion. That was -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why suggest? 11 MS. HARGIS: Because we are trying to set up the 12 guidelines, and if they didn't like the page, they didn't 13 have to have it. We told them that when we sent it out. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Waste of time. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bruce, F.Y.I., they just asked 16 me for ours. I sent -- I have two different ones. One's for 17 the jail, one's for the Sheriff's Office, and I provided them 18 with those mission statements. They didn't suggest mine. 19 MS. HARGIS: We didn't make them up on our own at 20 all. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- 22 MS. HARGIS: There are a lot of books out there 23 like this. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: From an economic development 25 standpoint, I think it's a good tool. And what we're going 7-13-09 185 1 to have available to us county-wise, economic development, I 2 think is in a state of flux right now. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that what you give the 4 County Auditor? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, from that standpoint, I think 6 it's a good tool. And with respect to the -- to the grant 7 applications, I don't know how many applications we make for 8 grants in a given year. I'd say, conservatively, a dozen, 9 probably more. If each time that that has to happen, that 10 information is having to be developed and compiled and sent 11 in with that draft, I think that alone would be well worth 12 the cost if it's already packaged up and you can just send it 13 right in. I think that would be worth the cost. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is worth it, 15 particularly if you're dealing with state agencies and 16 federal agencies. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as she goes through 18 you, Commissioner Williams. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fine with me, if you want to 21 go find a better price and go through your suggestion, rather 22 than just doing status-quo. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. I think we 24 can beat that price. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- "consider, 7-13-09 186 1 discuss, take appropriate action on professional printing." 2 What do we need to do? 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, we wanted to bring it to you to 4 see if you even wanted it, number one, and that we wanted to 5 get it professionally printed. That's the reason we brought 6 it. I mean, we've been putting them together on our own. 7 You didn't have books before, so people were calling us 8 constantly wanting to know what their budgets were. So, the 9 first year I was here, I put together the first budget book 10 that you had, and -- and tried to put tabs in it and 11 everything. I don't know that Tommy put together the same 12 type of book that I put together. He may have, but I 13 couldn't find it. 14 (Inaudible comment from the audience.) 15 MS. HARGIS: But I don't think they were in 16 binders. They were just -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were like one of those 18 little -- the little holes all in them. 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, there's not any in my office for 20 me to look at, anyway. Needless to say, I mean, we'll do 21 what you want us to do. We just feel that it would be nice 22 to have something that was easier to read on the web, that 23 would look more professional. And we can do it ourselves. 24 We did it before; we can do it again. We have every year. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it makes sense to go 7-13-09 187 1 outside. I mean, it doesn't make sense to do it in-house; 2 the cost is as high or cheaper to contract some of this out. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All you have to provide is 4 good originals, and I really believe we can cut the cost. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. We don't have a color printer; 6 we just have a color jet that we have to use to print the 7 stuff with. We don't have a color printer. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: If we did, we'd print them ourselves. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the consensus for she and 12 Commissioner Williams to work together to try and come up 13 with a methodology and go forward on the outside -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool with it. We'll do 15 it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to give it an A. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as Commissioner 19 Williams or one of us has something to do with it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a plus or a minus? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a plus. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to be a plus. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get together; we'll 25 figure it out. 7-13-09 188 1 MS. HARGIS: All right. Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is how you do it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That way nothing's on the 5 record. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just numbers, 1 to 10, score 7 them. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 28; consider, 9 discuss, take appropriate action to determine whether or not 10 the volunteer fire departments in Kerr County can deliver 11 water to citizens in need of water due to wells running dry. 12 Commissioner Oehler, this was added to the agenda rather 13 late. Pretty disturbing item. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it is disturbing, 15 because the fire departments are starting to get some calls, 16 and it's not -- it's more of a -- what I'm asking for is 17 information from the County Attorney, whether -- whether or 18 not there's something in the law that says that in an 19 emergency, we couldn't deliver water, or can a fire -- county 20 fire department couldn't deliver water to somebody. Is that 21 a big question? 22 MR. EMERSON: It's a question that I need to 23 research for you in detail. My initial inclination is that 24 we can't spend public money for private gain. And there's 25 hundreds of people that live out in the county as it is that 7-13-09 189 1 deliver water that don't have wells, and if you open this 2 door, I'm not sure you can close it again. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the problem is, they 4 haven't been able to find a bunch of people that will deliver 5 water. You know, we need to maybe advertise for people 6 that -- you know, make your name known or something, that 7 you're willing to haul water to people that are out of water. 8 But they're not having any luck finding people -- private 9 people or companies that are willing to haul around water, 10 and I think one of those reasons is liability. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What quantities are we 12 talking about, Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sir? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What quantities are you 15 talking about? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say 1,000 gallons or 17 something like that. Probably under 1,000 gallons at a time. 18 The thing is, we don't know how long it's going to go on. I 19 mean, the volunteer fire departments, a couple of them have 20 asked me about it, because they -- you know, they want to try 21 to help the people that they serve. But at the same time, 22 how do you skirt the liability? 23 MR. EMERSON: Without being -- without being 24 reimbursed for the expense, I'm not sure you can do that 25 without declaring some kind of emergency. 7-13-09 190 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if you get reimbursed for 2 the expense for doing it? 3 MR. EMERSON: Possibly. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could possibly be done? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear his last 6 sentence? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He said possibly. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, he said unless you 9 declare an emergency. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's getting pretty close 13 to that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- close to emergency as 15 anything I've seen. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're volunteer fire 17 departments; we don't have any say over what they do. Can't 18 they haul water if they want to? Or because they're -- 19 MR. EMERSON: I think they're concerned because 20 they take county money, and technically, they're -- although 21 they're independent subdivisions, they're kind of an arm of 22 the county, helping the county fulfill its public protection 23 needs. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 25 non-potable water, obviously? 7-13-09 191 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. No, it would have 2 to be non-potable be for livestock and that sort of thing. 3 Livestock or toilets, I guess. But drinking water, you can 4 go buy. But people -- I don't know; it's just -- it came to 5 my attention, and I thought I would just ask the question. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, it occurs to me that a 7 lot of these fire departments -- some of them are offering 8 weekly, some of them maybe more frequently than weekly, have 9 training exercises. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is he going with 13 this? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think there can never be too 15 much training for emergency services people. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to practice 17 delivering water in emergency situations. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's -- that's part of being 19 able to properly respond to a fire, is having enough water 20 there to handle a fire. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Point A to Point B with water. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. I just feel 24 like the question needed to be -- I think I knew the answer 25 as far as the County goes. I don't know that we could ever 7-13-09 192 1 do that. Now, we can do it in an emergency situation with 2 fires and things like that. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County has in the past 4 provided access to water. I believe the city, you can buy 5 water still. I don't know if it's within the city limits. 6 The reason -- I know there's some -- I know you can go out 7 there and get some water to buy. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that I heard the 9 other day that the City has limited people to 100 gallons. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, construction water, that's -- 11 boy, that's really in chaos right now because of this 12 Stage -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 2 now? Stage 2 that we're in, 15 yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, something else -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a real problem. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for another time, but we 19 might want to make some of our water sources -- wells that we 20 have access to for people in an emergency to be able to 21 access water. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done that before. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But one, for instance, is the 24 Mountain Home one; that's a really strong well, puts out 25 250 gallons a minute, and they've got 16,000 gallons storage, 7-13-09 193 1 so that's -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's gone down, it can be 3 replenished real quick. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Real quick also. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also have a well at the Ag 6 Barn. It may take some refurbishing. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't get some rain, 8 we're going to have to maybe, if nothing else, make that 9 available. Of course, that's not the agenda item, but -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll put that on the next -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did that -- '03, wasn't 13 there a drought? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 29. Ms. Hyde, 15 Ms. Bailey, is that something that is totally going to be in 16 executive? 17 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we go to Section 4 19 of the agenda, payment of the bills. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Section. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 23 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. For some 25 time now, we've been getting this phone log report. 7-13-09 194 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes, that was your request. You do 2 not want it any more? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want it any more. And 4 the reason -- I mean, I think it was a useful thing to make 5 sure we were saving money. It's clear we're saving money 6 almost across the board, but it appears to me that we're 7 spending time on this that doesn't need to be spent. So, 8 it's -- from my standpoint, this no longer is necessary. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you're right. We -- 10 initially, we determined that it was somewhat around 400 or a 11 little less a month. Then they changed the way they kept 12 track of the those minutes and we saw a big spike in the 13 minutes, and we figured out that they were logging minutes 14 that they hadn't previously logged, but the cost hadn't 15 changed. So, we can -- we probably don't have to have your 16 staff go to that amount of trouble. It's been pretty 17 consistently 350 to 400 bucks a month, pretty much across the 18 board. So, it was a good thing to do. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I do note -- I 20 mean, our minutes run over the 7,000 minutes, and I don't 21 know if we need to keep -- I think we need to monitor our 22 total minute usage. The cost is -- looks good. I mean, it's 23 generally -- the new phone plan is saving money for pretty 24 much every department, seems to me, even those that use the 25 phones a whole lot. 7-13-09 195 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a second? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I seconded it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 4 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget 10 amendments. There was quite a number of budget amendments. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A long time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Getting close to the end of the 13 year. Looks like there's 29 of them. Are we going to go 14 through them individually, or do I hear a motion to approve 15 all the amendments as shown on the summary sheet, 1 through 16 29? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of all -- 1 18 through 29. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a question, but I 21 figure you'll get a second first; then I'll have a question. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second. 24 Question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Discussion is, I see that 7-13-09 196 1 County Jail group insurance amendment for $7,900. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Which number? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Shortfall in group insurance. 4 Why? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't figure the group 6 insurance part of the budget, so I can't -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know you don't. 8 MS. HARGIS: I'm sorry, if you'll give me -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's on Page 2; it's Number 10 14. It's the top line, group insurance on the County Jail. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's coming from. 12 MS. HARGIS: That's coming from group insurance 13 line item to the other -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was coming from 15 the other two going into that. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to overtime. 17 MS. HARGIS: It's coming from his group insurance 18 line item. It's more than they need. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I was wrong. 20 MS. HARGIS: His overtime is over, and so is his 21 maintenance. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 23 the budget amendments? All in favor of the motion, signify 24 by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7-13-09 197 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Caught you, Buster. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 6 MS. HARGIS: Can I make a -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Late bills. 8 MS. HARGIS: No, sir. Can I make a comment 9 about -- just to make you aware on the budget amendment side? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say no. 11 MS. HARGIS: We have a very large -- in addition to 12 our normal -- our defense attorneys, which I'm sure we'll 13 have at the end, we are running out of money in our Juvenile 14 Probation Department housing line item. A large sum of 15 money. It's looking to be around maybe 150,000 that we won't 16 have, so I just wanted to -- going to make y'all aware that 17 we may be squeezing from all kinds of line items to get that 18 out. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 20 On that housing issue you just brought up, you said a 21 shortfall. You're going to have a shortfall of 150,000? Or 22 there's 150,000 now? 23 MS. HARGIS: No. We're already in the hole about 24 $3,200. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're projecting a 7-13-09 198 1 $150,000 shortfall by the end of September? 2 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 5 MR. EMERSON: Hate to be the bearer of bad news, 6 but there's a C.P.S. trial coming up that has eight attorneys 7 involved that's supposed to last a week to a week and a half, 8 so that's going to hit you pretty hard. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We better sell the 10 courthouse. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sell the jail first, please. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to have a 13 shortfall in our J.P.'s. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, big time. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: J.P.'s what? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Income. Revenue. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three and four, 18 particularly. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ours are really down because 20 the fence went up on Interstate 10. 21 MS. HARGIS: That's true. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not as many tickets. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you total that amount of 25 money, that's a total of about -- somewhere between 10,000 7-13-09 199 1 and 15,000 a month. Run that out to the end of the year, and 2 we're going to be short on that, as well as some -- some 3 other things, other revenues. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, the good news on -- on the 5 alternative housing for juveniles is that most of that money 6 is going to come out of the left pocket and go to the right 7 pocket, 'cause most of that housing money goes to the -- our 8 own detention facility. Now, that arises as a result of our 9 juvenile referrals being up about 30 percent over last year 10 alone. And most of these are new kids, not just the same 11 children. New offenses. Most of them are new kids. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the question would be, 13 are his expenses going to exceed his increased revenue from 14 other counties at the Juvenile Detention Facility? 15 MS. HARGIS: At the Juvenile Detention Center, we 16 probably will run out as far as some of his line items this 17 month. What we plan to do is, he's at -- within $12,000 of 18 being over revenue, so when he gets the new revenue, I'll 19 come and ask you to rebudget that revenue, and the expenses 20 to go along with it. So, yes, he will be. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MS. HARGIS: But he's going to have sufficient 23 amount of revenue to carry him. He'll be fine. It's his 24 food line item and his medical line item that are going over. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And medical is mainly a lag, 7-13-09 200 1 because, except as to Kerr County kids, that's reimbursed. 2 But -- and some of the Kerr County's reimbursed if there's -- 3 there's room in some of the state funds that provide 4 availability of those funds for medical costs, depending upon 5 what the cost is. 6 MS. HARGIS: We are getting some reimbursements 7 from IV-E on some of the housing and medical there. We're 8 not getting IV-E money, but we're getting reimbursed; those 9 sums are coming in. So -- also filled out that paperwork for 10 unclaimed property; not a lot of money. It's $3,200, but we 11 had some checks and things out there that I found, and the 12 Controller sent us a check for $3,200. So, I just wanted 13 y'all to know about the shortfall we might have there. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've also been presented with 15 monthly reports from Constable, Precinct 1; County Clerk; 16 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Constable, Precinct 4; 17 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; Environmental Health; 18 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; Justice of the Peace, 19 Precinct 1; Road and Bridge; and Kerr County payroll expenses 20 for June 2009. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 21 approved as presented? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 25 indicated reports to be approved as presented. Question or 7-13-09 201 1 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 7 to Section 5, reports from Commissioners in connection with 8 their liaison or committee assignments. Commissioner 9 Baldwin? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I've resigned all that 11 stuff. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm good, Judge. Nothing, 14 Judge. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to set a 17 workshop on this ETJ stuff, and looking at my calendar -- I 18 don't think it will take all that long. Why don't we do it 19 at 1:30 on the 22nd? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. I thought 21 Gordon said that was -- we're going to talk about this at our 22 meeting. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we need to have a -- I 24 think a -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Us? 7-13-09 202 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, just us. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just us. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When are you suggesting? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30 on the 22nd, which is 30 7 minutes before our budget workshop, which gives us a 8 30-minute period to get it done. And I don't think it's 9 going to really take that long. I'll have appropriate maps 10 at that time so we can look at different stuff. I think we 11 can redraw their map -- or their proposed map pretty quickly, 12 and at the same time, Rex can look at the copy of the 13 agreement with Mike Hayes. Did you get a copy, Rex, of the 14 agreement? See what he thinks of the agreement. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're proposing 1:30? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. That way we can get it 17 done. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Works for me. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll do my best to be here. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler, do you have 21 anything? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll leave it alone. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Elected officials? Department 24 heads? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick, two things. One, 7-13-09 203 1 unfortunately, you know, Judge, we have had another lawsuit 2 filed against the County, an inmate issue. I don't see any 3 issues with it. It's going through the channels now. It's 4 been given to Rex, turned over to TAC so the attorneys can 5 start dealing with it. Three inmates in a tank that got into 6 an altercation. 7 MR. EMERSON: Why don't you talk about the details 8 in executive? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's just an altercation 10 that ended up in a lawsuit to us. I don't have a problem 11 with it. But the other deal is, I may bring to y'all during 12 the budget contracting out meal service, because I had a -- a 13 company that is known, does do it for Dallas and a lot of 14 other places, offer us a bid that only charges per meal. You 15 don't pay for anything but the meal through their employees, 16 through some of ours. And, actually, their meal cost, from 17 what their bid was that they gave me, is about 5 cents a meal 18 cheaper than what we're cooking it for now ourselves. So, 19 come budget, I may seriously start looking at that for the 20 jail. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: They just come in and occupy your 22 kitchen? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They occupy the kitchen, they 24 hire the employees, kind of like the medical contract has 25 done. They use our trustees, and we have the say-so with the 7-13-09 204 1 employees, of course, total say-so with who they actually 2 hire. But they only charge you on the meals served, not the 3 surplus food or any of that kind of stuff. And since they do 4 it all over the state, they buy it in bulk and ship it in 5 bulk with their own people, and it's all dietitian-approved; 6 it's all, you know, counting calories and -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Diets to meet the needs of all your 8 inmates, as required by the commission and so forth? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- just rough; I'm sure 11 you've done the calculations. What does 5 cents a meal save 12 you? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I haven't done that type 14 of -- but when you're figuring we're serving 200,000 meals a 15 year -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? It can add up pretty 18 quick. And that's a ballpark, 5 cents. It may have been a 19 little more, but it may be worth looking at, trying it for a 20 year or two, and if it doesn't work out, we go back to 21 cooking our own. May be better, okay? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I got one quickly. 24 I forgot. There is a meeting I'll be attending on Thursday 25 at 10:30 at TexDOT talking about the construction schedule 7-13-09 205 1 which will soon get underway for the 1350 bridge on 2 Government Crossing. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also, Judge, the -- I think 5 everyone got an invitation to this Friday, the meeting at 6 Kendall County. They did a -- Hill Country County Coalition 7 group kind of, I think, is going to give kind of a summary of 8 what didn't happen at the legislative session, and then where 9 we go from here, and kind of a thank you to some legislators 10 and other groups that helped. Lunch is being served. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is that going to be, 12 the place on the hill? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Top of the hill. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 11 o'clock? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's 11:00, with lunch 17 at 11:30, something like that. It's a relatively short 18 business meeting followed by more, I guess, gathering. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have y'all called in -- 20 called that old gal, that lady? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pepper. I have. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She called me. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She calls you every five 24 minutes. Are you going to call her? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I already told her I'd 7-13-09 206 1 probably be there. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, then, Bill. You 3 don't have to yell. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't know you were 5 interested. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's all right, I'll call 7 her. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody might call her for you. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe Jody can do it for 10 you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I've already given Jody a message to 12 check with me. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pepper -- call Pepper. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: I have one other thing. We did send 16 out an e-mail to everybody on the Legislature. The auditor's 17 group sent me all the bills that have been approved, and we 18 sent those out to all of you so that you could look at those, 19 and we tried to divide them up by department the best that we 20 could so that they'd have an opportunity. It's a lot to keep 21 up with. So, if there's anything, we have a hard copy of 22 some of it. If you'd like to have it, we can provide it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, appreciate it. Any other 24 elected officials? Department heads? 25 MR. EMERSON: Just under executive session when we 7-13-09 207 1 get there, Judge. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm looking at you. 3 MS. HYDE: I'm keeping my mouth shut. It's 5 after 4 3:00. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. You don't want to work on 6 frayed nerves? 7 MS. HYDE: No, I got to go see Dr. Neely, so I 8 don't want to be like -- oh. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other reports? Anything 10 else? Any other business? We're adjourned -- no, excuse me. 11 MS. HYDE: Oh. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me recall that. Hold the phone. 13 You've got me into a "break out of here" mode. I'll blame it 14 on you, for lack of a better scapegoat. 15 MS. HYDE: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go out of open or public 17 session at this time to go into executive or closed session 18 to consider Item 29. So, at this time, we're out of public 19 or open session. 20 (The open session was closed at 3:04 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 21 is contained in a separate document.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, it is 3:22, and we will now go 24 back into open or public session. Any member of the Court 25 have anything to offer as a result of matters considered in 7-13-09 208 1 closed or executive session? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we approve 3 the confidential mediation settlement. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 6 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 7 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 8 hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Anything 13 further, gentlemen? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody, you missed it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Now Eva wants to talk. 16 MS. HYDE: Just don't forget Wednesday, if anyone 17 is wanting to come to the safety meeting, we have a safety 18 meeting Wednesday afternoon. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Wednesday afternoon, safety meeting. 20 MS. HYDE: 2 o'clock. Of course, you're on the 21 committee, but if any of the other gentlemen would like to 22 attend, they're more than welcome. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you saying that we need 24 to be made aware of how to be safe? 25 MS. HYDE: No, just you're more than welcome. 7-13-09 209 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or training. 2 MS. HYDE: You're just more than welcome. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm leaving. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further, gentlemen? 5 We will be adjourned. 6 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 3:25 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 10 STATE OF TEXAS | 11 COUNTY OF KERR | 12 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 13 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 14 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 15 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 16 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of July, 2009. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 7-13-09