1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, July 22, 2009 11 2:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 22, 2009 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2009-10 Budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure and personnel matters related 4 thereto, for various county departments, including, but not limited to the following departments: 5 County Court at Law ................................. -- 6 Employee Health Benefits ............................ 3 7 Reorganization Issues ............................... 42 8 Human Resources and Personnel Policies .............. 64 9 Organizational Development .......................... 65 10 Step and Grade Schedules ............................ 76 11 Adjourned ............................................... 103 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-22-09 bwk 3 1 On Wednesday, July 22, 2009, at 2:00 p.m., a budget 2 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was 3 held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I will now convene our Commissioners 8 Court workshop scheduled for Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009, at 9 2 p.m., and it is that time now. The agenda item is to 10 participate in budget workshops for the following 11 departments: County Court at Law, employee health benefits, 12 reorganization issues, human resources, personnel policy, 13 organizational development, and step and grade schedules. 14 Most of these are personnel or personnel-related items. We 15 moved County Court at Law there because of a conflict on that 16 particular one. I tried to get into that budget this morning 17 in order to make some modifications, and for some reason, I 18 could not get in there. It would not let me in. But at this 19 point, well, let's move forward with some -- some of the more 20 general issues. Let's talk about employee health benefits. 21 Initially, Ms. Hyde, do you want to kick this thing off? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this it? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it. 24 MS. HYDE: I've got Gary Looney; I asked Gary to 25 come down as well. He just got back from Washington, so he 7-22-09 bwk 4 1 can kind of update us on some of what our friends in 2 Washington are thinking about doing and attempting to do this 3 year. But as far as the benefit plan for this year, the 4 estimate at this point is -- is $2.2 million. That's up 5 about 200,000 over last year. And this is just an estimate 6 at this point. We'd also like to talk a little bit about 7 active employees' coverage and cost, retirees' spouse and 8 dependent coverage and cost, the HRA itself, COBRA, and the 9 stop loss and insurance reimbursements that we've gotten. 10 The employee health benefit plan right now is pretty robust. 11 It's a -- it's getting more and more solid. The employees 12 are understanding it more and more, how to use it, what 13 places to go. We had a little bit of a hiccup last week 14 where someone went again to the wrong place to get their 15 blood work done, and it's going to cost them $700 16 out-of-pocket. So, unfortunately, sometimes the e-mails, the 17 talk-WIS, the work-WIS, they don't -- they don't register 18 until someone gets hit and it brings it back up again. 19 I don't know what else -- what else we can do. We 20 can't say you cannot go to certain providers, but at the same 21 time, if it's going to cost me next to nothing or it's going 22 to cost me $700 or $1,000, I think that would garner my 23 attention. We're going to try putting out another post-it 24 within people's paychecks to see if that will help remind 25 everyone, because we're getting back into the time of year 7-22-09 bwk 5 1 when we do our wellness. Most people get their physicals 2 twice a year in groups. We have a big group that goes in 3 January and February, and we have a big group that goes 4 October, November, and December. So, that's right now how 5 it's going. And most times when you go and have your 6 physicals, they want blood work done. So, maybe we can help 7 save somebody some out-of-pocket expense by reminding them. 8 You're looking at me confused. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would you have two set 10 times of the year to go get physicals? 11 MS. HYDE: We don't. That's when -- we don't have 12 it. That's when people tend to go, right after -- right 13 after the new year starts and your new-year insurance starts, 14 and then some people go at the very end of the year after 15 they've paid their deductible. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MS. HYDE: So, Gary, do you want to come up and 18 tell them a little about Washington? 19 MR. LOONEY: Washington. Judge, Commissioners, I 20 think I handed you out an organizational chart of the House 21 of Representatives Bill Number 3200. Be sure and listen 22 tonight to the press conference that will be conducted this 23 evening by the president. He will give you additional 24 updates and be trying to sell his program to the general 25 public tonight. If you look -- when I first showed that 7-22-09 bwk 6 1 flowchart, everybody thought -- you might want to hold one up 2 so the people out here can see the flowchart. When I first 3 showed it to everybody, they thought it was a joke, and, 4 "Hey, this is like Rube" -- what -- Rube Goldberg or 5 whatever. One of these, you drop a marble in this slot; 6 where does it come out? There are essentially 14 new 7 bureaucratic agencies that are created by H.R. Bill 3200. 8 Unbelievable volume of -- of information that's 9 been given to the House of Representatives. They were given 10 last -- a week ago on Tuesday evening, they were given an 11 1,100-page document. Representative Waxman hired a 12 speed-reader to read it aloud in Congress so that they could 13 get it through the House. He had a speed-reader read all 14 thousand pages, which had to be done in the House. The 15 chairman of the committee, Mr. Waxman -- Representative 16 Waxman, has set out the rules for how you can give amendments 17 or make amendments or mark up the bill. What he said in his 18 rules were that it would be two-hour advance notice of any 19 amendment that anybody wished to offer on that bill, and it 20 would be given to him and his staff would review that 21 amendment to determine whether or not it was germane to the 22 discussions that were being held in the conference -- in that 23 committee. Extremely unusual for any House committee to be 24 handling that matter, where the chairman of the committee 25 manages the admission or submission of amendments to the 7-22-09 bwk 7 1 mark-up process. So, essentially, what he's doing is 2 controlling any amendment that might be offered to determine 3 whether or not he personally feels that it should be offered 4 to the committee for vote. That's the House side of it. 5 The Senate side, with the treasury and the -- and 6 their side with their bills, they've pretty much settled out 7 their bills at this point. They're waiting for the House 8 Bill to be completed so that they can generate a conference 9 committee that will then hopefully hash out the results of 10 the national health care plan that they're -- whatever it's 11 going to end up with. The timeline is one of the critical 12 issues. When Medicare was created back in the '70's, it took 13 almost two years of negotiation and discussion by bipartisan 14 committees, et cetera. This health care plan is attempting 15 to change the entire delivery system in the United States in 16 less than four months. The bills have only been active and 17 been in the hands of the committees for less than four 18 months. The directive by the president is to have something 19 to be voted on in Congress prior to the August recess. So, 20 you know, that's this railroad effect, and this is really the 21 big concern. There's no question that there's a need for 22 some reforms to take place as far as our health care 23 delivery. There's no question about that. But doing it 24 properly, doing it on a timely basis, and maintaining the 25 relationships that individuals have with their physicians, 7-22-09 bwk 8 1 and individuals have as far as being able to direct their own 2 health care is -- is at risk at this point in time with these 3 bills and with the Senate that's out there. 4 As far as it impacts us, far as it impacts the 5 County at this point, this next year, between now and renewal 6 for next year, even if they pass new regulations, new 7 requirements, whatever it happens to be, it won't impact the 8 county until possibly 2011 or possibly 2012, based on the 9 calendars that are put into the events that have to occur for 10 the creation of these agencies, if they are created -- if 11 they do get created, with an extension of it being fully 12 operable in 2015. So, as far as making critical changes in 13 our program as of today based on pending legislation, we 14 don't need to worry about that at this point in time. What 15 we need to worry about more is our -- just our standard 16 budgeting, moving forward what our plans are, our coverage, 17 and where we're headed from this point. Any things that 18 might occur would be administrative types of changes at this 19 point rather than completely changing what we're doing from a 20 delivery from an employer to employee at this point in time. 21 I'm sure that y'all have been kind of watching the 22 -- the wave. Let me give you just a couple of quick things 23 that happened, and in visiting with Congressman -- and his 24 aide for this summer is a young man that just graduated from 25 college, and he's up there for the summer working; he's an 7-22-09 bwk 9 1 intern working for Congressman -- Representative from St. 2 Louis. Started visiting with him and asked him what his 3 status was. He said, "I just graduated from college; up here 4 to follow the health care legislation. I've been admitted to 5 medical school." I said, "That's great. When do you start?" 6 He said, "Well, this October." I said, "What happens -- 7 you've been watching the legislation. What happens if they 8 pass this H.R. 3200 as it exists today?" He said, I won't go 9 to medical school." He said, "I'm not going -- I won't go, 10 because I don't want to be put into that system as a 11 physician." Okay? I have his name, address, and phone 12 number in case anybody would like to talk to him. 13 The other thing that happened was, I had another 14 individual, a lady that was an employee of a congressman, and 15 visiting with her -- and I had the book that they're given as 16 a new employee to look at, their health care plan that they 17 have as a new employee. It's about the size of the Kerrville 18 phone book; it's about that thick and a little bit bigger. 19 And I asked -- I said, "How did you go about making a 20 decision about which one of these 9 -- 12 plans that are 21 being offered to the employees, how'd you make a decision? 22 Did you go to the aide that specializes in health care for 23 the senator? Or did you..." She said, "Oh, no, she doesn't 24 know what's going on." I said, "What?" And she said, "Oh, 25 she wouldn't be able to help me. She -- she deals with 7-22-09 bwk 10 1 theory. This is -- this is -- I had to make a decision on 2 how my health care's going to be delivered." I said, "Would 3 it have helped you to have somebody help explain it to you?" 4 And she said, "We don't have that here." I said, "How did 5 you make the decision?" She said, "Well, the young lady that 6 sits at the desk over here normally said it was good plan, so 7 I chose that one." 8 And so, you know, the concept in delivery and 9 what's going on up there, we have a hard time with the 10 reality of what's going on in Kerrville as far as the 11 delivery process. Trying to join those media together is 12 going to be a real challenge. But as far as we're concerned 13 as an organization at this point in time, I don't think that 14 what's going on in Washington will impact or do anything to 15 our budget process for this year for sure, and maybe not for 16 next year. And I would like love to tell you that's a joke, 17 but it's -- but it's an actual -- it's an actual spreadsheet 18 on what the organization is supposed to look like. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the president is going 20 to step us through this tonight? 21 MR. LOONEY: Yes, I'm sure he will. I'm sure he 22 will. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Gary, did you -- 24 MR. LOONEY: I promise you, he's not going to enter 25 that system in the same manner that you and I would. 7-22-09 bwk 11 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you just say? Did 2 you say that it's not going to affect our budget -- 3 MR. LOONEY: Should not affect your budget for this 4 year at all. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This year, and maybe next 6 year? 7 MR. LOONEY: And possibly not for next year. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, of course, the 9 excitement doesn't hit until they get into the conference 10 committee. That's when it's really going to get fun. 11 MR. LOONEY: It's going to -- yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it gets that far. 13 MR. LOONEY: I had the opportunity to actually be 14 in committee, and be in there and feeding information in to 15 the individuals that were doing testimony. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 17 MR. LOONEY: It's an interesting -- it's an 18 interesting process. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I bet. 20 MR. LOONEY: Unless you have a lot of gray hair, 21 they don't let you in. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't sound like they listen 23 very much, though. 24 MR. LOONEY: No. Unfortunately, right now, what's 25 going on is a lot of trading going on. Democrats are trading 7-22-09 bwk 12 1 to the Republicans whatever they feel like they may have in 2 their pocket that they can give to Republican to gather that 3 vote. Example: You know, the bill was passed on greening 4 the U.S., and the effluents that are coming out of the 5 refineries, you know, they were auctioning off -- they were 6 going to auction off waivers so that certain refineries that 7 didn't meet the requirements could pay a fine or buy a waiver 8 to be able to put that effluent into the air. They changed 9 that, and instead of auctioning it off, they gave certain 10 democratic congressmen the ability to negotiate with 11 different locations around the United States that may have 12 high-profile refineries in it, but someone that they needed a 13 vote from. And we have one in Beaumont, in that area, where 14 we know that those types of bargaining chips are being traded 15 for a waiver of effluent for a health care vote. So, 16 politics on a very large scale. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. LOONEY: So, that's my -- but that's my happy 19 update for the day. Unfortunately, you know, we'll have -- 20 again, there will be additional information tonight, but I 21 suspect it'll all be centered toward passage of whatever the 22 health care bill is. Eva? 23 MS. HYDE: We won't have any more real, like, 24 dollars-and-cents numbers for probably another six to seven 25 weeks. Is that not correct? 7-22-09 bwk 13 1 MR. LOONEY: Probably be the first week of 2 September. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the numbers that are in the 4 recommended -- or in the budget right now are 200,000 over 5 last year? Is that what I heard? 6 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 7 MS. HYDE: It's 2.2 million this year, yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's keeping everything 9 the same? 10 MS. HYDE: (Nodded.) There might be a little bit 11 of an increase on the retirees. There's a recommendation -- 12 I don't know if you guys want to go into it at this point or 13 you want to wait until we get solid numbers. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think if we have to 15 wait till October, I don't think we have time for solid 16 numbers. 17 MR. LOONEY: Not October. 18 MS. HYDE: September. September 1. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have much time for 20 September 1. But -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you one question, 22 and it may open the door to further conversation about it. 23 But as far as the retirees and an increase there, you said 24 that there's maybe something. Obviously, there is something 25 -- a recommendation. Where did that -- where do those kind 7-22-09 bwk 14 1 of recommendations come from? 2 MS. HYDE: Based on the past. The precedent that's 3 been set on a yearly basis, there's been a small increase. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You look at it and say, 5 Well, we've been giving them a 3 percent raise every year, so 6 I'm going to put 3 percent in there? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that basically kind of 9 like the way you do it? 10 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On prescription drug care, I 12 know that was a highlighted area last year, probably the year 13 before. And I know that some other health care plans are, I 14 guess, getting closer or more and more saying you don't have 15 the option of taking name brands; you have to take the 16 generic equivalents. Where are we on all that? 17 MR. LOONEY: We've been tracking that, as we 18 suggested last -- we've been tracking it pretty closely as to 19 where the dollars are being spent. What would happen if we 20 make changes? What would happen if we make alterations? 21 Where can we, you know, adjust these numbers to get the best 22 bang for the buck as far as changing generics, changing the 23 co-pays, changing these different circumstances? The problem 24 is, with the volume of medications we're dealing with, making 25 these changes, we can generate additional income flow through 7-22-09 bwk 15 1 the system, but we're not able to generate significant enough 2 dollars. We're being able to create savings, but it's 3 ranging from 15,000, 18,000, $20,000 a year type savings. 4 So, in many cases, it's putting a nail in the bottom of one 5 or two employees' feet, and/or putting a rock in their shoe, 6 and every time they -- every time that they take a step, 7 they're going to talk about us changing their health care 8 plan. But we want to be able to get -- if we're going to 9 make those changes, we need to get some significant savings 10 if we're going to make that. Now, right now, the things that 11 we've been looking at based on the flows have not generated 12 enough dollars to -- to make some of those changes we're 13 talking about. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you looked at adjusting 15 the County's self-insured portion or whatever you call it, 16 cap? 17 MR. LOONEY: Co-pays and things of that sort? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not the employees. I mean the 19 50,000 -- what's the -- 20 MS. HYDE: Sixty. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Stop loss. 22 MR. LOONEY: Stop loss. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sixty? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sixty. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- I mean, is there any 7-22-09 bwk 16 1 savings one way or the other by adjusting that up or down a 2 little bit? 3 MR. LOONEY: That's part of what those hard dollar 4 numbers are that I'll be bringing back to you, because I 5 don't have any hard dollar numbers in that area yet. But 6 typically, when we take on more risk, we reduce fixed costs. 7 If we reduce that risk, we take on additional premium costs. 8 So, that's one of the analyses that we make during this time. 9 We're just too far out from the anniversary date to be able 10 to get the insurance industry to give us hard dollar numbers 11 based on those projections. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would you -- I mean, knowing 13 our history for the year, if we increase the stop loss, would 14 that be -- just intuitively, to me, if someone's going to 15 have to spend 60,000 on health care in a year, they're likely 16 going to be up to 100,000, you know. So, I doubt there's a 17 whole lot that are going to be from the 60 to 80 range, so 18 does it make sense to bump it up to 80 or 70 or some other 19 number? 20 MR. LOONEY: We just have to weigh that fixed cost 21 reduction against the additional risk. And usually the 22 savings in dollars are typically about two to two and a half 23 times, so if you go from 60 to 70, that's a $10,000 spread. 24 The premium we expect to see change is two and a half times 25 that 10,000, or -- 7-22-09 bwk 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 25,000. 2 MR. LOONEY: -- $25,000 change. That's just kind 3 of a general underwriting rule of thumb that we look at, make 4 sure that we at least get that amount of spread in the 5 premium, and then we also look at the number of cases that 6 have exceeded the stop loss in the previous year. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MR. LOONEY: To determine what that corridor might 9 be in relationship to what our overall risk might be. 10 MS. HYDE: We're staying about the same, I mean, 11 between 6 to 12 people. I mean, pretty much -- pretty 12 much -- I mean, it might be different folks, but it's pretty 13 much 6 to 12. It goes up to between 10 and 12 at the very 14 end, and that's why we -- we really need to wait, because the 15 data that they're looking for is what the trend is for 16 each -- you know, for all of that, and for some reason, June, 17 July, August seems to be when we tend to get that last big 18 heavy hit. So, hopefully we won't. I mean, we're in August. 19 So -- 20 MR. LOONEY: Majority of our high risks are falling 21 into the cancer therapy care and treatment. 22 MS. HYDE: Right. 23 MR. LOONEY: We've had a few cardiovascular 24 problems in the past, but the -- the greater, higher risks 25 have typically been in the cancer therapy treatments. 7-22-09 bwk 18 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What other options generally might 2 be available to us to make a significant savings without a 3 tremendous disruption in -- in the major components of our 4 plan? 5 MS. HYDE: Gary, I think he's talking -- 6 MR. LOONEY: Are you talking -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You may not be able to get both of 8 them; I don't know. 9 MR. LOONEY: -- about other changes in plan design? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. LOONEY: Plan design -- typically, when you 12 look at plan design changes, you're looking at moving from a 13 covered portion of the plan document to transferring that 14 risk back to an employee, so you're not going to eliminate 15 the cost, but you're just going to reallocate the cost 16 between employee and county. So, making plan design changes, 17 reduce copayments, deductibles, coinsurance amounts, change 18 the maximum available limitation for chiropractic care, 19 change the coverage for certain dependents possibly where you 20 don't cover certain elements of a dependent, it doesn't stop 21 that cost from occurring. It simply changes the risk to 22 another base. The greatest impact on your plan, the greatest 23 asset that you can put into your plan is a very strong 24 controlled wellness program. That puts people in a better 25 healthy condition -- healthier condition. 7-22-09 bwk 19 1 We've talked about wellness and health care and 2 wellness issues. We've had our wellness fairs. We've done a 3 lot of those things. More and more, the change -- and making 4 that change in the physical structure and maintenance of the 5 individual employees as far as their overall health care has 6 an immediate impact on the claims. You either prevent 7 something from occurring, or you identify it in advance of it 8 becoming a serious illness, which reduces the cost to the 9 plan. Or you end up -- as we have, you know, in the past, we 10 end up in disease management, which means it's already been 11 identified. The claims are already occurring, and we're 12 trying to mitigate that expense. So, this preventive care/ 13 wellness type program is the one thing that can give an 14 immediate gain and help the care without just shifting 15 cost -- without just changing the cost. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've always had a super 17 interest in that, but I can't see how you do it. I mean, do 18 you -- do you go down and buy everybody a membership to a 19 club -- a health club, and then -- and then make them go down 20 there or fire them? I mean, how do you do that? 21 MR. LOONEY: A lot of -- a lot of different 22 methodologies. One thing that happened two years ago, prior 23 to two years ago, if, as an employer, you wanted to 24 discriminate against what you determined to be an individual 25 that met certain physical requirements and someone who 7-22-09 bwk 20 1 didn't -- overweight, heavy smoker, whatever -- that 2 requirement on the federal government program, federal 3 government wouldn't allow you to discriminate against those 4 employees. Two years ago, they changed the law. They said 5 that you could change and you could offer up to a 10 percent 6 differential in either plan design or premium rate based on 7 an employee's physical structure or status, based on whatever 8 criterion you have. The one caveat in that is that if you 9 have a restriction for smoking, then you, as an employer, 10 have to offer the individual an opportunity to stop smoking, 11 which means you have to have something in your plan design 12 that says, Okay, here, here's the program. If you're on it, 13 you stay on it, you stay with it, you've got this premium 14 rate. If you don't stay on it, if you get off of it, then 15 you've got this premium rate. It's a higher cost. As long 16 as you're participating in the process of attempting to make 17 the change, then you are awarded a lower premium cost. And 18 that's monitorable by health care professionals. It's 19 monitored by wellness professionals, by companies that offer 20 that service. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And who is that here in 22 Kerrville, Texas -- 23 MS. HYDE: There probably is not -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that would monitor that? 25 MS. HYDE: There's probably not a wellness program 7-22-09 bwk 21 1 administrator in Kerrville, Texas. 2 MR. LOONEY: The wellness companies, themselves, 3 they contract with local professionals that have certain 4 certificates of education -- certain levels of education, 5 depending on where you -- physical therapist, some 6 physicians, some internal specialists, different 7 organizations that provide that kind of service to other 8 organizations, to other -- other individuals. It is -- it 9 requires the county to be very aggressive in the process. 10 Voluntary participation in the programs typically have 11 difficulty in working. There are things that you can do, 12 just as an aid. Negotiate with a local health club, like you 13 said, for a certain fee base, and possibly pay half that fee 14 for them to -- to encourage the utilization of that program. 15 I don't know if there's local -- I don't know which local 16 organizations -- I'm sure you've got local gyms and local 17 facilities, you know. 18 So, working and trying to encourage an employee by 19 a cash contribution is one method. The State of Texas has 20 discussed encouraging their employees on weight loss programs 21 and such as that by offering a basic dental program where 22 they give the employee and/or family two visits to the 23 dentist a year free if they'll go through the process of 24 getting in a program, staying in the program, and reporting 25 to that program. So, there's a -- a huge volume of 7-22-09 bwk 22 1 different -- but we're getting to the point where we have to 2 recognize the health of the individual employee and treat it 3 as a risk management function, because that really is the 4 risk for y'all, is managing that health care issue. So, 5 trying to take care of and manage that piece is -- is 6 becoming critically important. It's your turn. 7 MS. HYDE: You've asked regarding the costs, like 8 for employees or for retirees, and there's been a slight 9 increase each year that I've been here. I would like for 10 y'all to maybe consider looking at the retirees. As far as 11 right now, the cost for a retiree and the cost for their 12 dependent or spouse is the same as an active employee. 13 Perhaps we look at the spouse or dependent as other 14 locations, public and private, are starting to look at the 15 spouses and dependents, at 50 percent of cost, 50 percent of 16 base cost. So, if our plan costs Kerr County $600 per 17 employee per month, then a spouse or dependent would cost 18 $300 for a retiree. We could also look at changing, too, 19 once an employee/retiree hits 65, then we look at, you know, 20 they're under Medicare, Medicaid, and that changes. And, 21 again, those are retirees, not active employees. And perhaps 22 we look at paying for Medicare Part D, which is more of an 23 inclusive coverage for that employee, so it's more like their 24 supplemental which would cover prescriptions and medical. 25 That might be another way. Because our -- our employees 7-22-09 bwk 23 1 right now, we have 14 to 16 retirees, but that number is 2 going to grow. Our working force is mature, and it continues 3 to mature. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's sitting right behind 5 you. (Laughter.) 6 MS. UECKER: Yeah, I'm within kicking reach, aren't 7 I? 8 MS. HYDE: There -- there were discussions with me 9 this year about doing away with retiree funding completely. 10 I don't take that one well. And here's why. That is part of 11 this package, and it has been a part of this package. If 12 we're going -- if we're going to take something away, I 13 highly suggest that we replace it with something. Do not 14 take that away as a benefit, because I think it will hurt us 15 in employees. If people felt like that they were not going 16 to have retiree benefits, I think that that would hurt us. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the dependent costs for 18 retirees, -- 19 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's the same as dependent 21 costs for active employees now, is it not? 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned a moment ago about 24 having it half cost for dependents -- retiree dependents. 25 That's going the wrong direction, isn't it? 7-22-09 bwk 24 1 MS. HYDE: It's going up. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifty percent of the 3 premium. 4 MS. HYDE: It's 50 percent. A lot of places do not 5 even do it any more. They don't give it to spouses and 6 dependents. I keep saying spouses and dependents, 'cause 7 that's in all the language. I'm trying to figure out how 8 many dependents we would have at that age, and I'm looking at 9 65. But I guess you could. You know, you could have had 10 children late, or adopted. The other thing, when Gary looks 11 at costing this year, per y'all's request from last year, 12 we're looking at doing away with total self-insurance to see 13 what the difference in cost is, to see if there's anything 14 there, if we've closed any gaps. I think that, depending on 15 what happens with the federal government, what they determine 16 health care is going to turn into, that might be another 17 avenue to cover and help save us. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Our funding level last year was 19 equivalent to 1.8 and change, and we're going to 2.2? 20 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Effectively, what we're looking at 22 is a $400,000 commitment, assuming the plan remains 23 relatively equal. Any preliminary thoughts on a fully 24 insured program, what that would run? I understand it's 25 based upon -- 7-22-09 bwk 25 1 MR. LOONEY: We just -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- how they rate the risk, but you 3 don't have any benchmark numbers? 4 MR. LOONEY: We just go into the market and try to 5 find out. We got a lot of companies running scared right 6 now, so it just depends on the market, Judge. We won't know 7 until -- again, it's going to take at least three to four 8 weeks minimum to get some of that information. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But once you get closer to the 10 numbers that you got to have to have the thing -- 11 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- rated -- quoted, why, you're 13 going to have it quoted both ways? 14 MR. LOONEY: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. LOONEY: Right, we want to take a look at it. 17 We're somewhat limited in the carriers because of the fact 18 that we have to make sure that they have P.P.O. networks that 19 are appropriate for utilization by the employees, so it 20 limits some of the companies that we deal with, because they 21 don't have the proper networks involved to be able to use for 22 the employees of the county. The other thing, too, back on 23 the prescription drug program real quick, we're looking at 24 also a completely transparent model, which is a -- the 25 general terminology or the hot-button in pharmacy nowadays is 7-22-09 bwk 26 1 what they call transparency, where we actually are able to 2 get information concerning the true costs of the medications, 3 and then instead of paying all the markups that are involved 4 and the rebate programs that are involved, we pay cost-plus, 5 and then retain rebates. So, we're looking at that 6 possibility of reducing our cost overall without having to 7 change the actual delivery of medications themselves. The 8 prescription benefit management companies nationwide have 9 gotten a big silver bullet in the last year as far as the 10 volumes of dollars that they were making in relationship to 11 the actual costs of the medications that they were 12 delivering, so we're able to get better negotiated contracts 13 now on that basis. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And you can be required -- they can 15 be required to disclose all these rebates and -- 16 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. LOONEY: We actually had a bill passed in the 19 state of Texas this year that is going to require state 20 agencies -- and the definition of state agencies, I think 21 that the county probably is going to fall under that 22 definition when they get finished with it -- that the PPN 23 will be required to provide that information. That's 24 supposed to take place in 2011, is the -- by that time, 25 ERS/TRS -- ERS/TRS combination spent $660 million last year 7-22-09 bwk 27 1 on prescription benefit management, and they didn't do an 2 audit on $260 million of that flow. Now we've passed a 3 regulation that says, yes, we can audit. Yes, you have to 4 disclose it. It took a congressional meeting and a law 5 change to be able to get to the point where we can do that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If we materially change the co-pays 7 on the non-generics, could that make a significant amount of 8 difference if you -- if they have 50 percent co-pay? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes and no. Because -- it will; 10 however, comma, the plan -- and we won't -- I don't believe 11 that we can change the plan, by law. If a doctor fills out a 12 form that says it's a medical necessity, guess what? We got 13 to buy it, and we got to buy the Cadillac. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. I'm talking 15 about changing co-pays. 16 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Can't you change the co-pays? 18 MS. HYDE: You can make them more robust, yeah. 19 MR. LOONEY: We can change it to a percentage. We 20 can completely redo the formulary and take the -- the drugs 21 that are -- whatever category we want to classify them in and 22 make that a -- a percentage as opposed to a co-pay, pay 23 50 percent of that as opposed to a $30 copayment. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any estimate on what -- what that 25 would generate in the way of savings? 7-22-09 bwk 28 1 MR. LOONEY: We looked at the change in the co-pays 2 initially, and that's where we're coming up with this about 3 $15,000 to $16,000 change as far as moving from just 4 co-payments. Changing to the percentage, then you're going 5 to impact -- we don't know how many people that we would be 6 able to save from, because when you put that in, then they're 7 going to shift back to another -- possibly another drug. So, 8 rather than saving maybe 50 percent of it, we may save 100 9 percent of it. So, that change in that process -- again, 10 we're still -- because of the volume of drugs, we're in that 11 higher profile area; we're still only looking at within that 12 $24,000, $25,000 range, even going to a 50 percent. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And what -- what's the total dollar 14 figure that we spend on non-generic prescription drugs 15 through our plan now, ballpark? 16 MR. LOONEY: I actually have the report with me, 17 Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I've seen it, but I don't have it in 19 front of me. 20 MR. LOONEY: We do -- through the end of May, the 21 total prescription costs for preferred medications is 22 $155,000. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, that's two-thirds of a -- 24 so it's going to be 225 if you prorate it the remainder of 25 the year, right? Another 50 percent again? 7-22-09 bwk 29 1 MR. LOONEY: The total drug expenditure is 2 $218,000. 3 MS. HYDE: We brought the drug expenditure down, 4 and we've moved the generic -- the generic was less than 5 30 percent last year when we discussed it. This year it's 6 running over 50 percent. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your non-generics, though, 8 for eight months this year are 150,000? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 10 MR. LOONEY: For six months. 11 MS. HYDE: Six months. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: For six months? 13 MR. LOONEY: For six months. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be 300,000 if you 15 use a proration for a one-year period. 16 MR. LOONEY: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But if you can cut half of that out, 18 you got -- you're 150 to the good. 19 MS. HYDE: Unfortunately, most of those 20 preferred -- that's what I would -- that's why I brought that 21 up. Most of those preferred have brought in medical 22 necessity forms, so that -- 23 MR. LOONEY: The Judge is saying that doesn't make 24 any difference. It's 50 percent of whatever the cost is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever the cost is. 7-22-09 bwk 30 1 MR. LOONEY: Eliminating -- it's just 50 percent of 2 the cost. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There again, you're shifting -- 4 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that risk. 6 MR. LOONEY: And we have -- the down side, I guess, 7 of that, Judge, is you want to make sure that the people that 8 are taking these medications don't stop taking the 9 medications if, in fact, there are therapeutic uses that are 10 maintaining us from having some other critical illness occur 11 as a result of not taking the medications. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. LOONEY: So, selection of the -- of the drugs 14 that fall under that 50 percent category, if we change to 15 that category, selection of those medications in the 16 formulary should possibly be based on a therapeutic class, so 17 that you're dealing with medications that are possibly 18 maintenance medications, but they're not maintenance as a 19 result of a disease factor. They're more maintenance as a 20 result of sleep aid, for instance, a sleep aid or possibly 21 the esophageal reflux medications, the Nexiums. The things 22 you have to be careful of, you don't want to put too much 23 into the cancer therapy medications. You have to be careful 24 about those. You want to make sure that your diabetics are 25 -- stay on their treatment programs, and that the 7-22-09 bwk 31 1 cardiovascular, cholesterol control medications are 2 maintained properly, so you want to make sure that you 3 maintain those. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But if there's a therapeutic 5 equivalent at a lower cost, or a generic, you want to do what 6 you can to get them over there so that they continue to get 7 the therapeutic benefit? 8 MR. LOONEY: Correct. And that's where the 9 doctor-patient relationship has to fall. If you -- you know 10 the little fold-out they put inside the medications? You 11 know, that thing -- you ever read one of those? You'd never 12 take any medication, because the things that it says that it 13 possibly could cause are substantially greater than what 14 they're supposed to cure. But one of the things about the 15 esophageal reflux medications, the Nexiums and that sort of 16 thing, the actual fold-out on those medications say they're 17 not supposed to take those for more than 90 days at a time 18 because of potential damage they may do to the esophagus 19 overall, but we see people that are on those medications for 20 two, three, four, and five years. 21 MS. UECKER: That's right, and I'm not getting off 22 of it either. (Laughter.) 23 MR. LOONEY: I can tell her esophagus is in good 24 shape. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You just got your answer. 7-22-09 bwk 32 1 MR. LOONEY: As long as the doctor says that's what 2 you got to have, I'm not going to tell you you can't have it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't have to. Obama 4 will. 5 MR. LOONEY: Yeah, possibly. There are a lot of us 6 that wouldn't be able to receive treatment at all. Our hair 7 is much too gray. 8 MS. HYDE: Was there any other questions about 9 retirees and spouses or anything at this point? Or do you 10 want to wait until we have some hard -- hard numbers? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we got to have the 12 numbers. I mean, we can sit here and visit all day long. 13 You know, we can visit about your goats and stuff like that. 14 MS. HYDE: I don't have any. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll see in exactly -- 16 MS. HYDE: So -- are we done? 17 MR. LOONEY: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When does that happen? When 19 does the real numbers come? 20 MS. HYDE: About September 1. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September 1. And -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Got any wonderful ideas how we 23 quantify it between now and then, Buster? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 25 MS. HYDE: That's why we said 2.2 million. I mean, 7-22-09 bwk 33 1 that's -- 2 MR. LOONEY: I wish I had a crystal ball, 3 Commissioner. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's say we plan on 2.2 and 5 hope for better. 6 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 7 MS. HYDE: Right. Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And really hope for not worse. 9 MS. HYDE: Shouldn't be worse. Knock on wood, 10 shouldn't be worse. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on employee 12 health benefits that we need to -- 13 MS. HYDE: HRA, suggested carry-overs and change. 14 We changed it last year to make sure that it got fixed. The 15 original intent, I think, of the HRA card was the 600 for a 16 single person -- you know, employee only, 1,200 for employee 17 plus spouse, 1,800 for employee, spouse, plus child or 18 children. And somehow it went from 600 to 1,800 years ago, 19 so we changed it last year to get it back. One other way -- 20 and some of these are small dollar amounts. But the 21 three-year plan was such that you could carry it over up to 22 three years. Let's say you didn't use it. So -- I will use 23 myself. The first two years I was here, I didn't go to the 24 doctor, didn't use my little $600. So, this year, when I got 25 my 600, this is my third year; I had $1,800 in the bank. 7-22-09 bwk 34 1 Well, accident, head where it shouldn't have been, and so I 2 got to use my card and pay my deductible, my $1,000 3 deductible. I didn't have any out-of-pocket for my 4 deductible this year, which was pretty cool. But we've got 5 it set up on a three-year plan, and the more I used it this 6 year, the more I got to thinking about it. What ends up 7 happening, and myself included, even during open enrollments, 8 I'm telling folks, "Carry, carry, carry, and use it before 9 you lose it." Do y'all remember that during open enrollment? 10 Why not allow them to carry over as long as they want to, but 11 the max is three grand? The max is three grand. Whether you 12 get your 600, 1,200, 1,800, you can carry it as long as you 13 want, but instead of it being $3,600, it's $3,000. That's 14 it. You can carry it over six years, you can carry it over 15 one year, whatever you want, but I think that would save us. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the largest 17 carry-over that you may have right now? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Fifty-four. Carry it for three 19 years, 1,800, you could have 54. 20 MS. HYDE: We have a max of 3,600 on the 1,800 21 people. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, you do? 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. We got a -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So you're only reducing it by 600. 25 MS. HYDE: We're reducing them by 600 bucks, but 7-22-09 bwk 35 1 they can carry it as long as they want. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, that's -- I like that 3 better, personally. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's fair. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's easier. 6 MS. HYDE: It's easy for people to understand. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To encourage people to go use 8 it if you don't need it, I mean, it's -- 9 MS. HYDE: Right. Right. And so we were kind of 10 encouraging that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Encouraging people to go ahead 12 and do stuff even though it really wasn't necessary. 13 MS. HYDE: Right. And they could use that money 14 and get reimbursed at the end of the year, so -- so that 15 would be -- that could be an option. Again, this is saving 16 small dollar amounts, but we're kind of in that -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You keep the records of the 18 people. The employees know what, if any, carry-over they 19 have? 20 MS. HYDE: Oh, yes, sir. That's fun every year, 21 yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Actually depends -- every 23 time you use it, if you have -- go to the computer, it gives 24 you your balance. It will tell you if you used it before. 25 MS. HYDE: Another area -- and these are just 7-22-09 bwk 36 1 discussion topics y'all can think about until we get the 2 numbers. Right now, we have it set where coverage for 3 families with multiple active employees within the family -- 4 you know, do you want to look at that it's not free if you 5 both work here? It's going to cost you if one -- it's going 6 to cost you a little bit if you have two within the family 7 that both work here? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't seem fair. 9 MS. HYDE: I'm just throwing out ideas. These are 10 not suggestions, they're just ideas. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again? And then -- 12 as opposed to what? 13 MS. HYDE: Right now, if there is an employee and 14 their spouse that work for Kerr County, neither pay for 15 health insurance. Neither. They're both free. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how does that work? You 17 have an opening for my wife anywhere? (Laughter.) Why is 18 that? Tell me why. 19 MS. HYDE: Because they're an active employee. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're both employees. 21 MS. HYDE: And one of the benefits as an active 22 employee currently is that your medical insurance -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 24 MS. HYDE: -- is free. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. So, you want to 7-22-09 bwk 37 1 change it to -- or you're -- your suggestion -- 2 MS. HYDE: Just an option for you guys to think 3 about. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the options that you 5 threw out was that one of them needs to pay? 6 MS. HYDE: Or partial, or some. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or one needs to be the 8 dependent of the other? 9 MS. HYDE: Right. 10 MR. ODOM: Why would you do that? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many couples are 12 there employed? 13 MS. HYDE: We have several. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're one? 15 MS. GRINSTEAD: I'm one. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody, what do you want to 17 do? That's the way I'm going to vote. 18 MS. GRINSTEAD: I say leave it alone. (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Next? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You'd, in essence, be penalizing at 21 least one employee. 22 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see how you can do 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not the right -- let's 7-22-09 bwk 38 1 pick on something else, leave that one alone. 2 MS. HYDE: What you guys have to understand is when 3 I give you options, I'm trying not to give just one side; I'm 4 trying to give you -- because sometimes you guys throw out 5 some stuff that is different as well. So, these are some 6 things that people suggest, and the industry suggest, and the 7 public sector is doing. 8 MR. ODOM: It wasn't a good suggestion. 9 MS. HYDE: COBRA right now -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask you a question 11 before you go away from that. In that situation, we don't 12 have any circumstances where both employees who work for us 13 and are -- and have the employee coverage, we don't have any 14 situations where they're doing dependent coverage on -- 15 MS. HYDE: We won't allow it. It's not in the 16 plan, but we haven't allowed it. We only -- 17 MR. LOONEY: Just one of the employees has the 18 dependents. 19 MS. HYDE: Right. We just allow one side. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my question, thank 21 you. 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. On the COBRA, I'm sure y'all 23 remember that this year we have to pay 65 percent of any 24 COBRA that "X" employees have. The employee only pays 25 35 percent, and then we get reimbursed by the government the 7-22-09 bwk 39 1 65 percent. We haven't gotten reimbursed between -- we 2 haven't actually got reimbursed yet of anything that we've 3 paid, but I do believe that what they're looking at is that 4 this year, we get reimbursed; the I.R.S. is going to let us 5 have a tax credit against what we've paid in. But I would 6 say that that's part of -- is it not? Is that not part of 7 what the health plan is showing? That, guess what? That 8 65 percent is going to be our nickel, so that might be 9 something that you keep in the back of your mind, that 10 employees can quit or we terminate or they separate for 11 whatever reason, and we're going to have to pay for part of 12 their carry-over insurance until they get another job and get 13 insurance. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't there a time limit? 15 MS. HYDE: Eighteen months. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 17 MS. HYDE: And if they have a life-qualifying 18 event, they get another 18. And if there's a -- if there's a 19 death or a birth or another life-qualifying event, they get 20 another 18, up to 36 months. So, Mindy -- we've been working 21 with Mindy, because this reimbursement is a -- it's a trip. 22 Is it not? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 MS. HYDE: It is a trip. So, we've had to file -- 25 Mindy's had to file an amended -- 7-22-09 bwk 40 1 MS. WILLIAMS: For the first quarter. 2 MS. HYDE: You need to help me here. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: I had to file an amended 941-X for 4 the first quarter report in order for us to get back what the 5 County's portion is for a COBRA-qualified individual. 6 MS. HYDE: Because what can happen is you get 30 7 days not to pay your bill before we -- before you're 8 canceled, so if they don't pay at the end of March like 9 they're supposed to for March, then they pay in April, Mindy 10 has to go back and do an amended return. Which is what has 11 happened. Which kind of stinks. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the word "trip," is that 13 a '60's word? Is that the same word? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Used to do a lot of 15 tripping. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tripping, yeah. She used 17 it. 18 MS. HYDE: As of today, we've recovered 261,000 19 from insurance overpayments, stop loss differences, and our 20 stop loss reimbursement is now under 45 days. When I first 21 came here, y'all's stop loss was 6 months to 12 months, 18 22 months, two years. So, we have treated it kind of like an 23 A.R., an accounts receivable, and we kind of stay on it, so 24 at least that puts money in here. This was over 400,000 last 25 year. As you can see, this number has dropped as well. 7-22-09 bwk 41 1 We're maintaining and doing more maintenance. If we have 2 high-dollar issues or employees that we feel are going to be 3 high risk, we're getting involved at the beginning, helping 4 them with getting to the right place, versus the bills coming 5 in and then us trying to deal with them. So, that's all I've 6 got for employee health, unless you guys have questions. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we done with that one, folks? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So far. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to -- sorry? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to ask, what else 11 is on our agenda? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Reorganization issues, right down 13 the list. 14 MS. HYDE: In your handout, I tried to follow the 15 agenda items. 16 (Mr. Looney waved goodbye to Commissioners.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have fun next time in 18 Washington. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Bring us some good numbers, Gary. 20 MR. LOONEY: I'm going to do my best, Judge. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And some good news. 22 MR. LOONEY: Be sure and watch tonight. Just wear 23 your iron underwear when you do. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Shall we put this somewhere 25 and throw darts at it or what? 7-22-09 bwk 42 1 MR. LOONEY: I'll leave that one with you. Thank 2 you, Judge. 3 MS. HYDE: Bye. I'll call you later. On 4 reorganization, these, I think, would be discussed during 5 each of those areas. Is that -- but I just put Tim down 6 here. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it would be helpful if we 8 talked a little bit about some areas in which we're dealing 9 with some -- you know, there are not that many personnel -- 10 extraordinary personnel issues in the budget -- 11 MS. HYDE: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- process at this point. 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. So, you want me to kind of go 14 over them real quick? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Things are pretty static, but there 16 are maybe half a dozen different things that -- that we've 17 been kicking around that we've got plugged in at this point. 18 MS. HYDE: The first one is Road and Bridge. And 19 Leonard and Kelly and I have sat down multiple times, and 20 when we went over Road and Bridge, we reorganized and 21 reassigned duties so that it made more sense. Are you 22 nodding? 23 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 24 MS. HYDE: 'Cause I can't see behind me. And when 25 we did that, we also redefined some of their 7-22-09 bwk 43 1 responsibilities. So, in Road and Bridge, there is a request 2 for one more person as a 14-1, because we have 49 weeks of 3 vacation that we're trying to cover, and we've got the 4 numbers to show it. They need some help, because we're 5 robbing Peter to pay Paul, and then we're giving people time 6 off, and then we're robbing from those people to pay Paul. 7 And we're in a constant state, especially during your -- 8 paving? Did I say it right? The paving time, which is prime 9 vacation time. In I.T., we've requested an additional I.T. 10 person. We've requested a database -- 11 MR. TROLINGER: Administrator. 12 MS. HYDE: -- administrator. You can come help me. 13 Right now, we have the S.O. and jail that really and truly 14 utilizes a lot of I.T. time. Not because they're doing 15 anything wrong or bad; it's just because of the equipment 16 that's over there and what's going on. But the database 17 analyst -- yeah? Okay, I'm going -- I can't talk your 18 language. We need somebody to help us with training, also to 19 understand the software systems that we have. Right now, 20 we're going through some costs, and I think y'all will agree 21 we've paid some costs out, and some folks weren't real happy 22 we've had to pay to have people come in and get trained. We 23 need to have some on-site experts, and part of that needs to 24 come from I.T. John and I sort of agree to disagree and to 25 agree, but we need some on-site experts to help the users. 7-22-09 bwk 44 1 Instead of sending users somewhere to get trained at five 2 grand a week, or to send the trainers down here at five grand 3 a week, that database analyst can help us with report 4 writing, can help us with systems maintenance, can help us 5 with the day-to-day routine, fix any printer, change out 6 my -- my monitor. Help me here. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I agree. And, additionally, 8 we've added on the Animal Control facility, which is -- 9 MS. HYDE: Right. 10 MR. TROLINGER: -- relatively small, the Juvenile 11 Detention Facility -- 12 MS. HYDE: Road and Bridge. 13 MR. TROLINGER: -- and Road and bridge onto the 14 network, so there is a bit more work as far as the user base 15 goes. 16 MS. HYDE: The West Kerr is next. 17 MR. TROLINGER: So, there's a little bit more work 18 there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got the bounce off the tower 20 going now? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, it's working. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, good. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Thanks to the City, we've got 24 microwave capability between facilities, high-speed network 25 connections. 7-22-09 bwk 45 1 MS. HYDE: So that way, those folks can get in just 2 like we can. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you had -- you had an 4 employee, according to your notes there, at that 48,059, and 5 you're replacing that employee with someone at 41,102; is 6 that correct? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then you're proposing 9 to have another support person -- which it's not defined as 10 to how that person supports, but I think I know what -- at 11 37,238; is that correct? 12 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, what's the 14 distinction between the 41 and 37 person? 15 MS. HYDE: You're going to have to help me. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Database analyst is someone that 17 can sit there and do some programming work, someone that can 18 write a program that runs a report or write a program that 19 changes the database. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the 41 person or -- 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- the 37? 23 MR. TROLINGER: The higher. 24 MS. HYDE: The higher. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 7-22-09 bwk 46 1 MR. TROLINGER: More expertise required. And, 2 typically, in a big city, this is a $90,000 to $100,000 3 person. So, you know, for Kerr County, we're not offering a 4 whole lot, but I do hope to attract someone that has that 5 capability. And, as a matter of fact, we've -- 6 MS. HYDE: We -- we've interviewed, and they passed 7 the background. So, we did the backgrounds before we 8 interviewed, and they passed the backgrounds. There just 9 hasn't been a final decision. 10 MR. TROLINGER: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your current interviews are 12 for the replacement of the employee that's no longer here? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. It's not the requested 14 position; we don't have permission yet. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just thought I'd ask. 16 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so you're in that 18 process, then. You've interviewed and -- background, 19 interviewed, and now making decisions. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And when is that going to 22 happen? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Today, after the workshop. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good answer. 25 MS. HYDE: I know, but -- 7-22-09 bwk 47 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good answer. 2 MS. HYDE: I was afraid he was going to say, like, 3 tomorrow. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, we couldn't put it 5 off a day. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Need to get it done. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couldn't wait two, three 8 months. You know, we started -- we started with contracting 9 with the little company over here in Kerrville South to come 10 over here and do the smaller things so you could do the 11 bigger things, and then we got away from that and hired an -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: I.T. specialist. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I.T. specialist to work 14 for you, and now we're hiring -- we still have the I.T. 15 specialist, and now we're hiring another? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 MS. HYDE: Please. We're requesting. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, please. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He answered the question. 21 Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: There's just enough demand with the 23 databases and the amount of data that we have, we just have 24 so much data now that we need someone that can go in there 25 instead of the vendors and waiting on a vendor to go in 7-22-09 bwk 48 1 and -- and run a special report for us, or -- or, you know, 2 figuring out how much it's going to cost for them to do it or 3 for them to come on-site and do it for us. We need to be 4 able to do it in-house. It's just the -- the offset and the 5 cost, it's not going to be break-even initially, but 6 eventually it will be. It just -- it makes more sense to do 7 it in-house than to pay for it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I couldn't agree with 9 you more. That's -- you're exactly right. And all of this 10 mumbling that was going on a while ago about having the tower 11 sending out its signals now, and animal department's coming 12 online, and so all that's kind of new stuff. That's causing 13 us to have another employee to handle the new stuff. 14 MR. TROLINGER: It would help -- it would help out 15 with the extra load. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we with Tyler 18 Technologies and happiness? 19 MS. HYDE: We're happy with Incode. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Incode's the financial; Human 21 Resources is in very good shape. I think the courts are 22 doing fairly well. We've got some problems, got some on-site 23 time. J.P.'s are going to get a visit next month; that's 24 going to bring them up a little bit. Sheriff seems to be 25 doing fairly well. He's done quite a bit of work with the 7-22-09 bwk 49 1 Sheriff's Office recently. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did y'all tell him about 3 this meeting? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, kept it a secret. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I was wondering how 8 it happened. 9 MS. HYDE: He's in the Sheriff's conference this 10 week. 11 MR. TROLINGER: And we're lining up for a major 12 update to the courts and -- and integrated criminal justice 13 system to be loaded on the test system next month, and it's 14 going to be -- it's a culmination of things we wanted and 15 things we've asked for and things that we actually need to 16 have installed. And that will be due on production in 17 September after we test it. We've gone to annual releases, 18 where instead of updating the system every couple-three 19 months and you hear a lot of rumblings that something else is 20 broken, we're going to have annual releases, which lets us 21 plan and patch and fix on a regular basis. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MS. HYDE: So, that's it for I.T. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question. The 25 two largest items that I see in your budget are capital 7-22-09 bwk 50 1 outlay and software maintenance. Software maintenance is all 2 Tyler? Or is that a multitude of things? 3 MR. TROLINGER: All -- all of the -- a multitude of 4 things, not just the one vendor. We have eDoc Tech is the 5 other significant vendor for the County Clerk's office. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Capital outlay would be 7 defined by you? Or online, or in the hands of the Auditor? 8 Or all of the above? 9 MS. HYDE: Can you repeat the question? 10 MR. TROLINGER: I think I understand what you're 11 asking. The capital -- the software line item is -- is a 12 culmination of vendors, and then the capital outlay includes 13 everything from new software systems, the initial cost of 14 them, to computer replacement hardware, server replacements, 15 and updates, and things that have been asked for by the 16 various department heads that I visited with. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to the heart of 18 $307,000, where could we see a definitive list? 19 MR. TROLINGER: It's in there. If you click into 20 it, you'll see the detailed list, and there's a line item for 21 each of those requests. For instance, there's a new server 22 for tape backup. We've gotten to about 2 terabytes of data, 23 which is a whole bunch, and trying to archive that to tape 24 has been cumbersome. It now takes longer than the weekend, 25 running three tapes, to back it all up, to archive it. So, 7-22-09 bwk 51 1 I'm forced to go to the next newer technology, and there's a 2 line item just for that, just for that particular thing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Essentially, all the hardware and 5 software is in the I.T. budget. That's what's changed this 6 year. Instead of being spread out in all the budgets, it's 7 now been consolidated completely. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. That's 9 a good move. 10 MR. TROLINGER: And you can see the big picture 11 more readily than me providing a spreadsheet, as I had in the 12 past. You can see it on Incode in one place. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. TROLINGER: The good news on the software side 15 is we're still locked in as part of the initial contract with 16 Tyler Technologies; we have no annual increases. And this 17 year, we'd have another increase otherwise. That goes on for 18 another two years where we're locked in. We're not saving, 19 but we're not having to pay more. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 21 MS. HYDE: On maintenance, I need to ask for -- I 22 guess I need to request -- there's been an additional request 23 for an additional employee, and so I'd like permission to be 24 able to talk with Tim about it and then update the budget 25 with the request like we did with the rest. 7-22-09 bwk 52 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, you want 2 permission to -- 3 MS. HYDE: I don't know how I'm supposed to do 4 this. I've never done this before. I'm just going to go in 5 and start whopping numbers again. Jeannie and I agreed we're 6 not going to do it repeatedly; we're going to do them once a 7 week when we get done with this. Then anything that y'all 8 say yes or no to, "Yes, we want to see numbers," or, "No, we 9 don't," then we can change it based on that. Not give 10 multiple types of numbers to y'all week to week to week. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I'm looking for in this 12 particular segment is, there -- there are very few areas that 13 have additional personnel that are being requested. 14 MS. HYDE: Right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I want you to lay in 16 front of us now. 17 MS. HYDE: Maintenance is asking now for a new 18 person, so Tim and I need to discuss it. Right? Because I'm 19 not sure if you still want the other -- 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 MS. HYDE: He wants a new maintenance person. And 22 the rationale behind that is that we now have the Union 23 Church 100 percent again. The Ag Barn continues to grow. 24 The S.O. continues to need a person there pretty much every 25 day of the week. 7-22-09 bwk 53 1 MR. BOLLIER: Full-time. 2 MS. HYDE: Full-time. So, he's -- he and his folks 3 are petty stretched. Used to, we'd get some rain or cold 4 weather where there was a section where we weren't mowing too 5 much, and -- but now we've got more projects that take up -- 6 besides the mowing, like at the Ag Barn, at the jail, at the 7 J.D.C. -- am I doing it right? 8 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, you're doing good. 9 MS. HYDE: West Kerr. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tim, you want to add 11 anything to this? 12 MR. BOLLIER: She's doing real fine, Commissioner. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any updates on poop in the 14 park? (Laughter.) 15 MR. BOLLIER: I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the 16 poop out of the park. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not until next Monday. 18 MR. BOLLIER: Well, the main course is -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wait till Monday. 20 MR. BOLLIER: The main course is, like, at the 21 jail. We're finding that we need -- we're spending more and 22 more time over there. The jail is an eight hour-a-day job, 23 okay? And, like, right now, like B.J. and his bunch, the 24 trustees work; they help us when they can, but they've got so 25 much stuff now that they're doing right now too, and that's 7-22-09 bwk 54 1 not getting any -- that's not getting any smaller either. 2 And -- you know, and B.J., he helps out when he can. But it 3 just seems like he's getting more and more -- 4 MS. HYDE: Adult Probation helps you quite a bit, 5 community service? 6 MR. BOLLIER: Well, Adult Probation, they help out 7 on the weekends. But, like, during the week when we need 8 setups and stuff, sometimes, you know, community service 9 don't show up. If we don't have community service, we got 10 one man out there. If I've got one man mowing, I have to 11 pull Sonny in to help him. Sometimes it takes two or three 12 over there. So, you know, it's just -- it's just an ongoing 13 thing with the same old thing. And -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's your overtime? 15 MR. BOLLIER: Sir? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How are you on overtime? 17 MR. BOLLIER: Well, I'm paying overtime. I've put 18 more overtime in the budget. You know, I've added more 19 overtime. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we add this person, it will 21 reduce the number, then? 22 MR. BOLLIER: If we add this person, it should slow 23 down on overtime, yes. The only time -- you got to 24 understand, at the Ag Barn on the weekends, where we have a 25 weekend function, it's -- you don't just have an eight-hour 7-22-09 bwk 55 1 function. If there's a function out there, I've got a man 2 out there anywhere from 8 to 12, 13 hours. Sometimes I have 3 to put another man out there if it's -- that function may go 4 from 8 o'clock in the morning to 2 o'clock in the morning. 5 You know, you can't ask one man to work 18, 19 hours, and 6 that's what you end up with. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can have it. 8 MR. BOLLIER: I just got -- you got me riled. No, 9 I'm just trying to be serious here. But, you know, the -- 10 you see where I'm going with it. I mean, I have no control 11 over the overtime at the Ag Barn on the weekends. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I understand that. My 13 point was, your overtime has been a problem. If you get 14 another employee, that problem needs to start fixing itself. 15 MR. BOLLIER: The overtime should fix -- it should 16 cut it way down. That way I can add two people at the Ag 17 Barn on the weekends when I have anywhere from -- I may have 18 a function that starts at 7 o'clock in the morning. That guy 19 would only have to work till 4:00, and I have a -- say a 20 Quinceanera that starts at 5 o'clock, goes till 1 o'clock in 21 the morning. Then I've got it covered, and I'm out of 22 overtime. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Can I ask you a 24 related question, just out of curiosity here? Since you 25 mentioned Union Church a minute ago, -- 7-22-09 bwk 56 1 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- what's all that 3 construction fencing doing around the Union Church? 4 MR. BOLLIER: I did not put it there, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't ask you if you put 6 it there. I asked what it's for. 7 MR. BOLLIER: I haven't an answer for that. I do 8 not know, sir. 9 MS. GRINSTEAD: I do. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know? 11 MS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah. That Congress of Speleology 12 group is out there, and it's just -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the next deal. 14 MS. GRINSTEAD: They're out there a couple more 15 days. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had to fence them in, 17 they got so rowdy? Is that the deal? 18 MS. HYDE: That's the cave people, the spelunkers. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tim? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Hold it down. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The question about -- a 24 question about the jail issue. You said that's a full-time, 25 8-hour -- 8-hour deal. Is that something new? Or has it -- 7-22-09 bwk 57 1 has that load of work always been there? Or -- let me 2 finish; you're fixing to jump in there. Has it always been 3 there, or is the place falling down and creating new -- new 4 work? 5 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir, the place isn't falling 6 down. The work has always been there. It's just that 7 we've -- we've just never really had the time, with the 8 personnel that we have, to stay there. And -- and, to tell 9 you the truth, we need to do more pre-maintenance, and we're 10 getting better at that. I mean, we're not perfect at that 11 yet, but there's times that there's other things going and we 12 just don't -- I don't leave a man there just to do what needs 13 to be done, and poof, off we go again. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When's the last time we've 15 added a person to the Maintenance Department? 16 MS. HYDE: It was prior to 2006. We've taken away 17 from the Maintenance Department. 18 MR. BOLLIER: We've taken a minus of one and a half 19 people, the way I see it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Obviously, that was kind of 21 easy. Let's try it again. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See if the answer you get 23 is consistent. 24 MR. BOLLIER: Ms. Hyde says one, so we'll go with 25 one. 7-22-09 bwk 58 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right, thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde said? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Ms. Hyde says we're minus one, so 4 I'll just go along with that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more elaboration on that? 6 MR. BOLLIER: Just thank you, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MS. HYDE: We also want to move -- on the budget 9 right now, somehow the line items on maintenance personnel in 10 maintenance are kind of not where they need to be, so we'd 11 like to move those as well, so that housekeeping is all in 12 one spot where they're supposed to be. But we've got people 13 all over the place in different budgets, so we need to work 14 with Tim and with Jeannie to make sure that we've got them in 15 the right line items so they show right. 16 MS. MABRY: I visited with Tim not too long ago and 17 I worked up budget amendments to that effect. You want to 18 move the money to where it is actually coming out of, and 19 those will be presented next Commissioners Court. 20 MS. HYDE: And that's it for maintenance. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: Animal Control, modifications on 23 personnel placement within the budget, and a new budget 24 request. It's not an additional person. It's for additional 25 part-time hours. It's about $11,000 in part-time. Some 7-22-09 bwk 59 1 things that are going on now is that with the I.T. add, we 2 can do more with the Pet Finders -- with more of the Pet 3 Finders. We've got weekend work that needs to be done; the 4 animals still have to be fed and watered and all that good 5 stuff. But you've also got vacations that need to be 6 covered. So, what's happening is we're, again, robbing Peter 7 to pay Paul. And although you may not see it in overtime 8 pay, we're seeing it in time off. 9 MS. WHITT: A lot. 10 MS. HYDE: So it's killing that operation. If 11 you've got -- I think it's in y'all's budget notes, and it 12 shows the time off, how much, the whole nine yards. But it 13 has to do with being able to cross-train and cross-utilize 14 that part-time help in the office as well so that they can be 15 used for the computer. The software that John's going to put 16 in is going to help with keeping up with some of the reports 17 that you gentlemen have kind of asked for in the past, like 18 how many dogs do we pick up? How many cats do we -- 19 MS. WHITT: How many we pick up in the city, how 20 many we pick up in the county, how many adoptions, 21 euthanized, I mean, all types. Not only will it do that, it 22 will also help keep track of cruelty cases, which have 23 increased, so we're having to deal with that a lot more, 24 which takes away from, you know, the Animal Control officers 25 helping -- being able to help at the office. They're out in 7-22-09 bwk 60 1 the field so much more now. But one of my big things is that 2 I really don't want to do away with the Pet Finder site. 3 That has really helped us out a lot in adopting out these 4 animals. It's been a great thing. We've had people from New 5 York fly to Kerrville to adopt animals. We get people from 6 all over the state coming to Kerrville to adopt animals that 7 they've found on the Pet Finder web site. 8 MR. TROLINGER: And Pet Finder is a national -- 9 worldwide web site, but the point is, it takes a lot of time 10 to do data entry into these systems. You know, automating 11 doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to do things a lot 12 better; sometimes it's -- you know, we're going to provide 13 the benefit to the public. We're going to adopt out animals 14 instead of destroy them. So, that's what's she's talking 15 about when she means she needs somebody in the office to do 16 this data entry. It just takes more time, something we 17 haven't done before. 18 MS. WHITT: You have to take all the pictures of 19 all the animals to be able to download them and put them on 20 the site, and there's just a lot that goes into it. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not talking about adding an 22 additional employee, correct? 23 MS. HYDE: No, sir, just part-time. It's a big -- 24 a big hit on part-time, about $11,800 over last year. It's 25 an increase. It's a large increase in part-time hours. 7-22-09 bwk 61 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We're adding the equivalent of a 2 part-time employee, then? 3 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Correct? 5 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 6 MS. WHITT: Right. 7 MS. HYDE: Requesting. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Equivalent -- essentially add 9 one-half, right? 10 MS. WHITT: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any more questions on 12 that one? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You used the -- you 14 use the reason because it assists in vacations. 15 MS. HYDE: Vacations, yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Department can't take a 17 vacation unless we hire somebody new. And you said that 18 about one of the others. Now, which one was that? 19 MS. HYDE: Road and Bridge. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road and Bridge, okay. I 21 will argue that point the rest of my life, but obviously, I'm 22 never going to win, 'cause I've been doing it for about 17 23 years now. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably getting pretty good at it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I should be, but I haven't 7-22-09 bwk 62 1 cracked it yet. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What's that going to do to your 3 overtime out there? Is that going to affect it? 4 MS. WHITT: I can cut my overtime. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I show you have a 2,000 -- 6 MS. WHITT: I had about 1,000, or I'd be willing to 7 even go less. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was your question, 9 Judge? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: How that would affect the overtime 11 she's requesting. She says she can reduce it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I see. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We call that a Letz question. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Right? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That works. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We got the right answer, didn't we? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, I like that "reduce." I 19 like that. Good word. 20 MS. WHITT: I've got a couple of places once I get 21 to my budget hearing that -- some things that I can probably 22 go without. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, good. Good, okay. New folks, 24 in whole or in part? 25 MS. HYDE: Total full-time new folks is now -- no, 7-22-09 bwk 63 1 requesting. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Part-time, full-time, whatever. You 3 got any more? 4 MS. HYDE: No, sir, not that I know of. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the Sheriff? 6 MS. HYDE: He already got it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Asking for half? 8 MS. HYDE: He already got his. Y'all approved it 9 last meeting, last Commissioners Court. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: So it was approved. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's effectively a -- a new 13 one-half employee going into this new budget year, even 14 though -- 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- he got it late this year. 17 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, you're talking about net 19 gain, three and a half. 20 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Road and Bridge had one 22 more? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. I.T., one. Maintenance, 25 one. Animal Control, one-half. Okay. Any more that we want 7-22-09 bwk 64 1 to kick around there, or do we want to go to the next one? 2 Let's talk about H.R. and personnel policies. 3 MS. HYDE: I just have the one there. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Any elaboration you want to make on 5 that? 6 MS. HYDE: I would love for you gentlemen, at your 7 pleasure, for us to pick the policy book back up. I would 8 like to request that we have the policy book, at least the 9 first one. We can keep changing it, but, please, can we get 10 the first one passed? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do we lack to get 12 there? 13 MS. HYDE: The I.T. that you and I worked on. We 14 need to represent that. And then anything -- I think we went 15 over everything the last time. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a meeting next Monday. 17 Jody's working on the agenda. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're saying that as if 19 we're -- are we supposed to be doing something with it? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the last thing that 21 we -- we were supposed to be doing, she and I were going to 22 get together and do some retooling of the I.T. policy. We 23 have done that. It needs to come back to the Court for its 24 review. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Are you responsible 7-22-09 bwk 65 1 for bringing it back to the Court? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not me. She is. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is that true? 4 MS. HYDE: Sure. Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. See you 6 Monday. 7 MS. HYDE: Want to add it? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are you good with that one? 9 MS. HYDE: I'm good with that one. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to organizational 11 development. 12 MS. HYDE: We tried to find ways this year to 13 obtain CEU's without people having to travel so much. We put 14 out several things on the web. We sent out e-mails telling 15 about different places that we could go. We've invited 16 T.C.D.R.S. and T.A.C. here, which they've increased the 17 number of conferences and, in turn, training opportunities 18 for people here. Last year they had two. This year, there's 19 -- there will be four by October, which means that we don't 20 have to pay to go somewhere. They're not all the ones that 21 everyone needs, but it's getting -- it's getting more and 22 more. So, we have the four T.A.C., the three T.C.D.R.S., the 23 F.M.L.A. and the F.L.S.A. conference, Incode and Odyssey 24 webinars that we've been sending out e-mails trying to 25 encourage people to use those. You need a set of speakers 7-22-09 bwk 66 1 and you need to set the appointment and just get online, and 2 it's like a little video, and they train you, and you get to 3 play with your computer while they're doing it, which is 4 pretty cool. We're working with elected and appointed 5 officials at their request, and we're going to continue to do 6 that next year. We're trying to find more training that we 7 can do online. There's some stuff that -- that we found from 8 different web sites; for example, the Open Meetings Act. I 9 think that, based on what the Attorney General said -- and 10 Rex isn't here, so I can't get him to help me, but you're 11 supposed to be trained on that every year. You can do it 12 online, and they -- you get to print a little certificate. I 13 did it this weekend; it takes an hour. You get to listen to 14 them. There's him and a lady, and then some of their little 15 actors. But it takes an hour, and you get to print out your 16 little certificate, and it's supposed to be posted or filed 17 somewhere for the public to be able to see. He's also got 18 Open Records, which you can go online and do your training 19 online. So, I'm searching to see what other types of 20 training that we can do online, get our little certificate, 21 and not leave our home, or even at work as well. And it's 22 free. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who all's required to do the 24 Open Meetings and Open Records? 25 MS. HYDE: Well, I'd rather Rex said that. The way 7-22-09 bwk 67 1 it sounds is in 2006, they made a change, and that you're 2 supposed to go through the training every year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know that we are. 4 MS. HYDE: They were talking -- do you? 5 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 6 MS. UECKER: Open Records Act doesn't apply to 7 regular -- 8 MS. HYDE: Not Open Records. Public meetings. 9 MS. UECKER: Same thing. 10 MS. PIEPER: It applies to me, because I have 11 public records. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Open Meetings Act 13 just applies to this body, I think. 14 MS. HYDE: I think. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we run across that -- 16 that class somewhere every once in a while. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. We've done it 18 twice at least. 19 MS. UECKER: Are you talking about Open Meetings or 20 Public Information Act? 21 MS. HYDE: Two different ones. Open Meetings, you 22 go to the Greg Abbott web site, watch it, print out your 23 little thing, and you're done. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, I really would like to 25 see us move in that direction, because if these meetings that 7-22-09 bwk 68 1 we go to -- if they're not going to get like Linda Uecker 2 does it, I'm not going to them any more; I don't give a damn 3 what they say. I'm just not going to do that any more. 4 That's just -- 5 MS. HYDE: They don't have Buzzy's barbecue? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't have Buzzy's barbecue. 7 MS. UECKER: I didn't do Buzzy's barbecue. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda does the meetings 9 right. They sit down there and they have a meeting, and with 10 an instructor there talking, and when it comes lunchtime, 11 they sit down and eat and this guy keeps talking, and they 12 get it done, knock it out. And they don't go out and play 13 golf and tennis and be stupid. 14 MS. UECKER: Nine hours a day. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pool. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pool -- yeah, pool players, 17 sharks. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Golfing tournaments. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golf tournaments. Pitiful. 20 Absolutely pitiful, and a waste of taxpayers' money. I'm 21 going with Linda from now on. 22 MS. UECKER: September the 1st out at the Y.O. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Golf tournament? 24 MS. HYDE: I don't think they play golf at the Y.O. 25 We completed training this year. We did bloodborne 7-22-09 bwk 69 1 pathogens, sexual harassment, working together, understanding 2 our differences, finding unit diversity, ethics in the 3 workplace, understanding security principles for leadership, 4 managing conflict, employee documentation, progressive 5 discipline, and methods set -- or resetting expectations and 6 responsibilities, and that was under individual offices. 7 Immunizations, of course, we went through and got the courses 8 and certifications so that we can purchase and oversee the 9 vaccination process for the county, which saves us some 10 money. And I didn't realize -- to be honest, I didn't 11 realize how much it would save us regarding our health 12 benefit, but it's helped us on our health benefit, major 13 medical. Influenza, we get every year. This will be the 14 second year, at no cost to employees. And when I say that, 15 what I mean -- I can see the Judge wrinkling his head at me. 16 When you go to the doctor to get your flu shot, if you go to 17 the doctor, it costs you a $30 co-pay, but the total bill 18 might be 60 bucks, and that goes into our major medical, and 19 they pay it at a reduced rate, but they still pay 50 bucks. 20 It costs us five bucks an employee. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to have the -- 22 what do you call it -- swine flu vaccine? 23 MS. HYDE: They're saying there's not a true swine 24 flu vaccine, per se, at this point. The C.D.C. has -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you -- it was on the radio. 7-22-09 bwk 70 1 MS. HYDE: I understand that, but the C.D.C. says 2 that it isn't in a pandemic right at this point, not because 3 of what it's doing, but the amount that's going on. But they 4 said it would be another 6 to 18 months before they have one, 5 and they probably won't even have enough for everybody, 6 because then we'll have the chicken flu or something. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chicken flu. 8 MS. HYDE: I did request this year for the 9 influenza vaccines, to go ahead and do the second shot, the 10 second series of the Hep A-B shots, the rest of the 11 employees. And then I'm asking for tetanus vaccinations as 12 well. Tetanus and Hep are on 10-year cycles, so once they're 13 immunized, then we're talking 10 years before we'd have that 14 sort of cost again. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about tetanus for all 16 employees? 17 MS. HYDE: If they need them. If they need them. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who can remember when you had 19 your last tetanus shot? 20 MS. HYDE: There you go. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only get one every time I 22 step on a nail. 23 MS. HYDE: Well, if you read, sir, it doesn't 24 really -- that's not the biggest reason in how you get it. 25 That's why I put it in there. It's in the ground. It's in 7-22-09 bwk 71 1 the ground, so if you step barefoot on the ground, you might 2 need to get a tetanus. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, but it is 3 in the ground. 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 MS. HYDE: South Texas Blood Center, they've been 6 here twice now. It's exciting; we get a lot of public people 7 come in as well. They see us, you know, right out here out 8 in front. Tim does a good job of helping to cut that -- that 9 area off so that they can come in. We've been training on 10 the benefit package. It seems that people are doing much 11 better at understanding the benefits and how to use them. We 12 are reducing cost. Workers comp, third year in a row, we've 13 been able to reduce our cost. 2007 and '08, it was 39 cent. 14 2008-'09 is 28 cent, and then 2009 and '10 is 18 cent. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good reduction. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Nice reduction. 17 MS. HYDE: So we want to continue working with 18 this. We had our safety meeting this morning, and the Judge 19 told me could I add something, in a nice way, so I'd like to 20 add it. I'd like to request $5,000 to $10,000 for the safety 21 committee and needs that we might need this year. Was that a 22 laugh when I said it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was taking a picture of you. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got you now. 25 MS. HYDE: When we talked about -- 7-22-09 bwk 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got somebody. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you say? Actually, 3 that was my heart. You said something about you need more 4 money for something? 5 MS. HYDE: I'd like to request $5,000, $10,000 for 6 the safety committee. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are you going to do, go to 8 Hawaii? Or -- 9 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hawaii? Why do they need 11 $5,000? 12 MS. HYDE: Oh, I wish. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For a seminar in Vegas. 14 MS. HYDE: We do need some training materials. It 15 does cost money, a little bit of money. I think that 10K is 16 probably high. I was just saying five to ten that so that 17 maybe y'all would say five is okay. I think five -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Keep talking; we'll get it 19 to 2,500. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, I recall you saying that, 21 you know, if we're going to do this right on this safety, 22 we're going to need a little money. 23 MS. HYDE: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't remember hearing a five or 25 ten figure. 7-22-09 bwk 73 1 MS. HYDE: I didn't say that to you. I just said 2 money. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. Lest you leave the impression 4 that I was -- 5 MS. HYDE: Oh, no. I didn't say a dollar amount to 6 the Judge; I just told him money. But -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is for materials? 8 Training materials? 9 MS. HYDE: Training materials. Some of this stuff 10 that we can get, we can get free. I mean, I'm a proponent of 11 freebie. But some of it, we're going to have to purchase. 12 M.S.D.S. We do need to do M.S.D.S. As everyone learned last 13 Friday, in -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is M.S.D.S.? 15 MS. HYDE: That's when you label for hazmat. We 16 need to do hazcom. That is required training, federal and 17 state. We need to do that this year. We also have 18 bloodborne pathogens; that's required federal and state. We 19 did it this year. We didn't do it to everybody, but we did 20 it, which we get our check. But we need to incorporate -- 21 M.S.D.S. is when you put all your labels on any cleaning 22 supplies, anything that can be or could be poisonous or toxic 23 or a health contaminant. It sometimes is silly, and 24 sometimes it's frustrating, but -- until you get poisoned or 25 a kid gets poisoned or something falls down dead and you 7-22-09 bwk 74 1 don't know why. That's why they want it. If there's -- in 2 case of fire, we want to know what chemicals and compounds 3 are in that area. Are they going to blow up? Are they 4 toxic? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Madness never ends. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that would be a 7 smart thing to let the fire department know about. 8 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. When we talked about safety 9 this morning, some things that we've talked about is we kind 10 of need an evacuation plan. That might cost us a little bit 11 to make the big evacuation plan posters. So, I don't know 12 how much something like that costs, but I know it's not free, 13 and I know Tim and I can't draw them. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz. 15 MS. HYDE: They'd be cute. Tim and I would do a 16 good job; they'd be cute, but I don't think that they'd meet 17 what we need. 18 MR. BOLLIER: May not explain -- 19 MS. HYDE: "You're here. Get out." You know, that 20 doesn't quite work. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Someone said 2,500. 22 MS. HYDE: No, sir, because we also talked about 23 the -- we also talked about that right now, in our vehicles, 24 we don't have emergency packs. We don't have anything in 25 those vehicles. We should have, you know, certain things 7-22-09 bwk 75 1 that most of us probably have in our personal vehicles, like 2 you have some sort of cone or flasher or something. You have 3 a little bit of a -- 4 MS. UECKER: Flashlight. 5 MS. HYDE: Flashlight. You got a camera. You've 6 got the paperwork you need so that you can report the 7 accident or injury correctly. 8 AUDIENCE: First aid kit. 9 MS. HYDE: First aid kit. You guys are doing 10 great. I'm so tickled. So -- 11 AUDIENCE: Fire extinguisher. 12 MS. HYDE: Fire extinguisher for sure. There's 13 certain little things -- I'm still ticking it up -- for five 14 grand. We would come before you before we spent anything. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is this in your notes? 16 MS. HYDE: It's not. It's one of the additionals. 17 I don't know that it would go on my budget. Would it? Oh, 18 yeah, okay. Sorry. Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Training materials. 20 MS. HYDE: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Employee training. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Safety materials. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Employee training. 24 MS. HYDE: We have a line item for safety, so we 25 can keep it separate so that there's no merging of the -- 7-22-09 bwk 76 1 MS. HARGIS: We can create one. 2 MS. HYDE: Jeannie says she can create a safety 3 line item. That way there's no merging, so we could know 4 what it was. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: And, to be honest and fair, the shots 7 and all aren't in my budget. They're in 10-409-483, is where 8 they're showing. 9 MS. HARGIS: Nondepartmental. 10 MS. HYDE: Nondepartmental. 11 MS. HARGIS: 37,000. 12 MS. HYDE: Do y'all want step and grades? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we through with the issues under 14 organizational development? Step and grade, I think probably 15 the important thing that we need to do is talk about all of 16 the policy-mandated adjustments have been made in the step 17 and grade. 18 MS. HYDE: Oh. Oh, okay. I misunderstood what you 19 asked for. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Personnel costs. 21 MS. HYDE: Within the budget, yes, sir. When I did 22 the payroll -- and each time we get up and each time someone 23 else gets up, I'm going to request that they look at it very 24 closely. I did all the educational increases, longevity 25 increases, anything that -- that they were supposed to get. 7-22-09 bwk 77 1 Those are -- those are in there. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And the estimated personnel cost 3 increase because of policy-mandated increases? 4 MS. HYDE: I didn't bring the sheet that I gave 5 you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It's approximately -- 7 MS. HYDE: 437,000. If you include -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 450, roughly. 9 MS. HYDE: -- payroll, FICA, and retirement? Is 10 that what you're asking? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The roll-ups. That's exactly what 12 I'm asking. 13 MS. HYDE: It ended up being 437, 457. 14 MS. HARGIS: 47. 15 MS. HYDE: 447. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I was figuring roughly 450,000. 17 MS. HYDE: 447,000 is what I came up with. And 18 that does not include -- and it does not include Juvenile 19 Probation, Airport, District Judges, District Judges' staffs, 20 D.A. Curry, D.A. Barton, 216th, C.S.C.D., 'cause I don't -- 21 we don't do those; those are special funds. They're special 22 fundings, so those are not inclusive. Those are 23 pass-throughs, so to speak. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The important point that I want to 25 make to the Court is that we've got close to a half million 7-22-09 bwk 78 1 dollars in -- in mandated personnel costs that -- 2 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Additional, that we're going to need 4 to find a way to handle. 5 MS. HYDE: That does include -- Judge, that does 6 include all the requested new positions. 7 MS. HARGIS: Except for Tim. 8 MS. HYDE: Except for Tim's, because I didn't know 9 about it till yesterday. So, it includes that. It includes 10 the three new full-timers in there; it includes their 11 benefits. And this is your longevities and your educations. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What does our tax numbers look 13 like? 14 MS. HARGIS: Tax numbers? Diane? 15 MS. BOLIN: I'm sorry? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax numbers, property tax 17 values. Level? Up? 18 MS. BOLIN: They're up 2 percent. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2 percent? 20 MS. BOLIN: Basically the same as last year because 21 of our new over-65's. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And what's that translate to in 23 dollars? Half a million? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty close to that. Between 25 400,000 and 500,000, isn't it, tax dollars? 7-22-09 bwk 79 1 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems to me that we're -- 3 depending on how that policy goes forward, the step and the 4 years and the growth, that -- that I'm not sure we're going 5 to be able to afford some of our built-in increases, unless 6 the growth starts picking up again. We're going to be -- 7 from the numbers they just said, I mean, the -- that right 8 there is just enough to cover only our mandated -- or 9 policy-mandated increases. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, when this conversation 11 first started, you said policy-mandated. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then we got into new 14 hires, and the number was a half million. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: 440-something, and when you roll the 16 -- the one maintenance in there, you're at a half million. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we -- I thought we were 18 -- can we roll all the new hires out? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And just talk about the 21 policy-mandated. Now, what -- what kind of number is that? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Find a ballpark. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at it a little 24 bit different from you. If it really got down to crunching 25 pennies, I would look at the new hires before I would the 7-22-09 bwk 80 1 policy-mandated. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not looking to, really, 3 this as much as I am looking forward. I mean, we've been 4 fortunate to have any growth in values in this community 5 compared to what a lot of communities across the country have 6 seen, and I think we need to be kind of looking at where 7 we're going to be going long-term, because I think the -- the 8 period of growth like we had for the last five years isn't 9 going to happen in the next five years, and we need to start 10 planning, in my mind, for that, and making sure we're not 11 getting ourselves over a barrel. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to be much slower the 13 next three to five years. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I don't -- you 15 know, and I agree. I think you need to look at it, but I 16 think we -- we set that policy when things were blowing and 17 going. And, you know, I'd love to be able to keep it going, 18 but at the same time, we have other things -- computers and 19 other things we have to buy, and I think we may need to look 20 at that, and it may be that we have to go to a -- every four 21 years you get an automatic increase, you know. We just got 22 to look at it. 23 MS. BOLIN: There is going to be one other thing 24 that we're going to have to take into consideration, but it's 25 not going to affect this year's budget, that new -- sort of 7-22-09 bwk 81 1 new 100 percent exemption for veterans. When I spoke to the 2 Appraisal District about it, they said that it is going to 3 have a substantial impact, but it will not be this year. 4 Maybe next year a little more, as the word gets out and the 5 qualifications get out. But that because of our area, it is 6 going to have an impact on us. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Totally disabled are going to 8 be zero. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They get taken off the tax 10 roll. 11 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, for a homestead. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For homestead. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 15 MS. BOLIN: They will pay no taxes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. When's that become 17 effective? 18 MS. BOLIN: It became effective June 19th. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it will impact us 2011. 20 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's the same story 22 we've been through some years ago. Whenever you -- whenever 23 your values start to stabilize, and all that coupled with the 24 65 and over exemptions, this is going to be a hard time in 25 the next couple years. And next year, I feel like that we're 7-22-09 bwk 82 1 going to be -- we'll be lucky to be -- to have any increase 2 in tax value -- taxable value. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's why I'm trying to 4 look ahead a year, saying, okay, you know, yes, the policy we 5 mandated, I certainly support, but we got to make sure we can 6 afford the policy. We don't want to get ourselves in a bind. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And our reserve's already lower 9 than -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Our reserves are low, and we 11 also have -- you know, we just -- some of the costs you can't 12 help, but we are going to have to really look hard at what's 13 absolutely necessary to provide service, because the 14 alternative is much worse -- would be much worse on 15 everybody. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the over-65 tax freeze 17 continues to chip away. You know, we're having less effect 18 from that now because some of those properties are rolling, 19 so they're coming up. But -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will stabilize somewhat 21 within the next year or two, I think. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: One of the other things that there's 23 been considerable discussion about is some of the items in 24 this budget are capital items, and those items are more 25 readily handled -- capital assets last over a period of time; 7-22-09 bwk 83 1 to handle those out of the general revenue fund, and you can 2 amortize that cost over several years. And when it comes to 3 looking at your rollback rate, you're really penalizing -- 4 can get yourself into trouble if you don't have some debt in 5 your -- in your budget. And we -- we're rolling off a lot of 6 debt. You heard the -- the outside auditor talk about how 7 there are a lot of local governments that would love to be in 8 the balance sheet position that we're in, and that debt is 9 going to roll off -- our major debt, long-term -- I say 10 "long-term"; most of it's short-term -- is going to start 11 rolling off one a year for the next four years. So, -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to be -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what I'm going to strongly 14 recommend is that we move all these capital items over and 15 handle those as a separate issue, and not take those out of 16 the general fund. And I think that's going to let us have 17 more freedom to handle the things that we need to handle. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also mitigates against the 19 rollback. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Couldn't agree with you more. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I think we've got to do that, 23 or we'll -- we're really going to see ourselves in a bad 24 situation. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We started it last year, and 7-22-09 bwk 84 1 just continuing that policy. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as we don't have any 4 big long-term debt that's coming on, it works very well. You 5 just roll it out over five years and keep it running. And, 6 you know -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Able to do things and pay for 8 things -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- pretty quickly. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just clipped this for 12 everybody's benefit, but I also learned today that Bexar 13 County Commissioners Court is, by policy, having no 14 increases, and no freeze on salary. I think Comal County's 15 doing the same thing, I learned today. And there may have 16 been one other county in the region already has indicated 17 that -- freezes to be eliminated this year, and freeze -- 18 hiring freezes. So, things are happening within our 19 geography. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But the four debt issues that we've 21 got, one rolls off next year, another one rolls off the 22 following year, and they -- one a year. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, basically, in four years, 7-22-09 bwk 85 1 we're debt free right now. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's wonderful. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. Like I say, 4 the -- there's a lot of local governments that would kill for 5 a balance sheet position like that. Total debt's about 6 $6 million. A little under, actually. Pretty nice. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But that will give us some -- some 9 ability to handle some of these other items. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the total capital items 11 in our current budget? 12 MS. HARGIS: In -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the recommended, I should 14 say. 15 MS. HARGIS: The requested is 733,643 in the 16 general fund. And the Road and Bridge and Juvenile Detention 17 and D.A., it's 271,100. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About a million. 19 MS. HARGIS: For a million, four, yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will help tremendously. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll help us do some things 24 to prepare for next year and the year after, 'cause we need 25 to be -- there's a two-year downturn normally before you 7-22-09 bwk 86 1 start your growth again. Maybe it won't hit. I'm hoping I'm 2 wrong, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty much did hit. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else out there? 5 MS. HARGIS: The one other item that we talked 6 about, Judge, was the Indigent Health Care. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. As -- as we all know, our 8 indigent health care situation has improved considerably. We 9 budgeted slightly over a million dollars. The total 10 expenditure out of that is going to be less than $500,000, 11 and by shifting a half million dollars there; i.e., the 12 excess, and reducing the upcoming year's budget for indigent 13 health care down by that amount, I think they'll be well 14 within what they need for their expenditures, and that also 15 gives us a pretty nice little breather. That's going to be 16 another major component to help us get through this. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was in hopes that would -- 18 that would work that way. 19 MS. HARGIS: They're currently at 440,881, and we 20 have a packet to come to you, but it's about $3,000. We have 21 three more patients that we found that can go to Social 22 Security, so we'll get a refund from those. I really feel 23 like 500, 550 is what they're going to to come out at. If we 24 can reduce it by at least 500,000 we can shift -- do some 25 shifting there with revenue, and that would give us a big 7-22-09 bwk 87 1 boost for this year. I just don't think they need -- the 2 budget they put in here was a little -- even a little greater 3 than last year, and they're not -- right now, they -- the 4 prior year, before we put that program into place, we spent 5 932. Right now, they have 592,000 they haven't spent. So, 6 Rosa's not here, but I feel like it's -- that she would 7 probably agree with us. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's what's going to get 9 plugged in, because they've got it down where it's operating 10 within that range. And bearing in mind, of course, that 11 we've -- we're looking at up to 6 percent of general -- 12 general fund tax levy. But with what -- with what they've 13 done down there during the past year, it's -- it just keeps 14 getting better, and they're getting more recoupments, and at 15 the time same, when they get recoupments based upon Social 16 Security Disability, that, of course, takes that person out 17 of the mix. 18 MS. HARGIS: Not only out of the mix, but they get 19 a refund up to six months. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here's the number on dam -- 21 dam repairs I promised you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh. You would have to bring that 23 one out, wouldn't you? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, just thought I'd trot 25 that little bugger out before it's too late, Judge. Only 7-22-09 bwk 88 1 $204,000. 2 MS. HARGIS: Commissioner Williams and I talked 3 about this. I haven't talked with Commissioner Oehler, but 4 we feel like we would probably put this in the capital 5 projects, since it is a capital project; it would be 6 considered such along with the engineering for this project. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that both dams? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both dams. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Both dams, okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: That way, I think there's a -- an 11 agreement here that we need to do them consecutively so we 12 can save money on bringing equipment and things of that 13 nature out. Is that true? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 15 MS. HARGIS: We're going to try to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are some economies by 17 taking on both dams at the same time. The mobilization 18 costs, essentially, -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- are less -- less than if 21 you have to do one and go away, and then come back and do 22 another one. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think another -- just an area 24 that needs to be considered with the capital items or with 25 that is the airport, 'cause there's -- I don't know that 7-22-09 bwk 89 1 we've seen the final numbers that we're looking at. 2 MS. HARGIS: We haven't. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But their capital projects for 4 the next couple of years are pretty hefty, and then it trails 5 off to virtually nothing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's -- and from the 8 current -- the board's projecting out through the next ten 9 years. It's pretty much 2010, 2011, then it just drops off. 10 They don't see a lot more expenditures out there. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What is that one? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's just the -- the 13 operating number, but we're talking more on the capital. 14 They have a -- they have to do a new airport master plan. 15 That's kind of required by TexDOT. That's about 150,000, I 16 think. 17 MS. HARGIS: 175. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 175. They've got the -- 19 there's a taxiway project that they'd like to do to get 20 taxiways built up, kind of out behind, so they can start 21 trying to develop it. And there's another T-hangar project 22 that's on the board for -- and some of these may be 2011. 23 Then the other -- and all those I support as funding our 24 part. The one that I have a little bit of heartburn with is 25 the water extension project, which is probably about a 7-22-09 bwk 90 1 $600,000 project. The City has made their position known, I 2 think, on the E.I.C. funding. The water project, I have -- 3 my problem with -- the reason for the heartburn is, it's 4 absolutely necessary to have that done out there, but that is 5 -- everything else is fifty-fifty owned. We will never own 6 half of that water system. That's a City-owned utility, and 7 I have a problem with the County having to pay their part of 8 improving the city utility, which they will then collect 9 revenue off of their hookups. So, I have a little bit of a 10 problem on that. But on the rest of it, I would support 11 putting -- really, almost the next two years, I'd like to 12 front-load that a little bit, do it at one time and give the 13 Airport Board the opportunity to -- while they're doing a lot 14 of other projects out there, there may be some economies, and 15 get the same contractors to do some of that, and do it all in 16 one year. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I was talking with Josh 18 probably about 6:15 last night, and he still didn't have a 19 good, firm number, so -- to give me besides the 315. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MS. HARGIS: So -- and keep in mind, next year we 22 take on a larger percentage of that. The library I brought 23 down the 100,000, and we do take on more for Animal Control, 24 but not the full this year. I thought it was the full, but 25 it's not. We do take on the full of the Animal Control the 7-22-09 bwk 91 1 following year. This year, we still get 25 percent from 2 them. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're off the hook for the 4 $6 million library. 5 MS. HARGIS: Thank goodness. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't speak too soon. You 7 never know. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not -- as far as the 9 airport's concerned, I'm not over there with Dave Nicholson 10 quite yet, but now he's wanting to sell -- wants us to sell 11 it. But I'm moving over there pretty goddern quick. We got 12 to stop spending money out there at some point. That -- I 13 know that everybody can see how that's the hub of the 14 community, but I don't see it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: One other major capital outlay item 16 that we're investigating now is the Adult Probation facility. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tinley Hall? (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't realize you had it 19 in you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You came up with the idea. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to store that one away, 22 Jon. Everyone talks about my memory being very faulty. I 23 assure you, it will last a long time. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Come back to the way at some 25 point. 7-22-09 bwk 92 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that synonomous with Taj 2 Mahal? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought it had a good ring to 4 it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does. But you need to 6 misspell his name, though. Tinsley. Tinsley Hall. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I forgot who came up with 8 that one. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I saw it in 10 the paper, I think. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But that's being looked at 12 now. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good project, Judge. Good 14 project. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the Sheriff thinks it is. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess so. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: He managed to attach himself fairly 18 strongly to it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Attached himself? He put 20 himself right in the middle of it. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He may be a little delayed in 22 getting space. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There may be some thinking that the 24 finish-out portion would be limited to the probation, and if 25 the Sheriff wants to occupy some of his, he can figure out a 7-22-09 bwk 93 1 way to finish it. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The rest of the people -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, it just amazes 4 me, this game called politics. We started that building out 5 there with the thought of probation, and we talked about it 6 one day, and it turned into the Sheriff's office somehow. I 7 just think -- isn't that -- that's a work of art. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't architecture 9 wonderful? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's incredible how he did 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Is that it? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. We're selling the 14 airport, and what else? And no salary increases. Did I hear 15 that? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because San Antonio and New 18 Braunfels are not -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just gave it to you for 20 your information, that's all. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the salary increases we 22 gave last year were generous, and I think this year they're 23 minimal. I don't know if I'd say none. I don't know, but I 24 think the data that -- isn't that from you, Eva? 25 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 7-22-09 bwk 94 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can read it right, which 2 is not simple with these things, it shows that it's -- C.P.I. 3 is negative at the moment. 4 MS. HYDE: Still negative 1.99, but if you look at 5 the trend, it is coming up. It is coming up; it should be 6 back -- it should be back -- August or September, it should 7 be back at zero. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if it's a negative and 9 we tie -- we tie ourselves to some index and it's negative, 10 that means we need to take some salary away. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may need to take some 12 salary away. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I just -- Eva told me to 14 say that. And I floated it out there. It didn't go over -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't go very far. That 16 won't work. I only gave you that information just because it 17 was passed on to me. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate that, Bill. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that -- of course, one, we 20 have a negative downturn in the economy. You try and, number 21 one, preserve the number of employees and see if you can 22 maintain them at their current level. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's kind of an optimum 25 position. 7-22-09 bwk 95 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything else for us on 3 all these various personnel-type items, Ms. Hyde? I 4 shouldn't have asked that last question, should I, Buster? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You shouldn't have. 7 MS. HYDE: I asked for the dollars for safety. I 8 would also like for y'all to consider a reimbursement. We 9 talked a little bit about the health plans. We'd like to put 10 in for a reimbursement for health and safety. A couple of 11 things, if we can get people to just -- on weight, lose some 12 weight and get into a little bit better shape, it might be -- 13 I didn't say you. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Suck it up, Tim. 15 (Laughter.) 16 MR. BOLLIER: I was sucking it up. I was trying. 17 MS. HYDE: We might be able to do some things. 18 Weight, blood pressure, cholesterol, some of the screenings 19 that we did this year. So, we were looking at perhaps 20 requesting a reimbursement to employees that go and work out 21 and get fit, twenty bucks a month, if they can prove that 22 they've gone at least two hours a week, two different days a 23 week. Some people disagree and say no, probably not, 'cause 24 some people just walk themselves. Well, some people don't 25 have that kind of willpower. Some people don't know what to 7-22-09 bwk 96 1 do, and so they do go and work out. So, perhaps another 2 thing that y'all could consider is reimbursing employees $20 3 a month if they go and they get fit, and we should see -- we 4 should see gains in our medical. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, how -- see, I like 6 that. I like all of the -- all the above. There's a neat 7 plan in there somewhere. I'm going to go down to the health 8 spa and -- and pay my membership dues, and have for years, 9 and haven't been down there in a long time. (Laughter.) And 10 that's what's going to happen here. And then the employees 11 go down there, and they go down there and Eddie Sears signs 12 that they've been in the building, and so we know they've 13 been there. We need to give them $20. That doesn't -- that 14 does absolutely nothing, until they come back here and we put 15 a measuring tape around their stomach or something. 16 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's got to be some way 18 to measure this thing. Just going down there, I mean, hell, 19 that's not going to do anything. There's got to be a way to 20 actually measure -- and, you know, I don't know what that is. 21 I have no idea. 22 MS. HYDE: We can do before and after pictures. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before and after pictures 24 would -- may be a good way. I don't know what to do. But 25 don't you think that it has to be based on some kind of -- 7-22-09 bwk 97 1 MS. UECKER: Success. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- success? "Success" is a 3 great word. 4 MS. HYDE: Six-pack. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you what, we can make 6 the other half of that building -- you know, it'll be Adult 7 Probation on one end, and the part that is designated at a 8 future date for the Sheriff can be a workout facility, and we 9 can get us a person over there -- hire somebody to go and 10 instruct our employees. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if you don't work out, 12 you get fired. How's that? Now, there's an incentive. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, now, I don't think I want 14 to go there. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just trying to find some 16 incentive. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an incentive. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Work out or get fired? Is 19 that -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that one doesn't work 21 either. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No traction. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I really hope we get to 24 do something like that. 25 MS. HYDE: I mean, they can't prove or disprove -- 7-22-09 bwk 98 1 I'm not a doctor, and I'm -- no offense; I don't want to 2 measure everybody. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, now, Tim and I need to 4 challenge each other to lose 25 pounds in the next month and 5 a half or something. 6 MS. WHITT: We know the trainer. 7 MR. BOLLIER: I got a good idea. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have an idea? 9 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Uh-oh. 11 MR. BOLLIER: We go down to the dog park... 12 (Laughter.) We can turn that into a little track, run the 13 dogs out. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will that be before or 15 after you clean it up? 16 MR. BOLLIER: Well, sir, I think we'll need to 17 clean it up a little bit first. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that leash or off-leash? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the next question. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got a little slippage 21 here. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm leaving. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more personnel-related items 24 that you have, Ms. Hyde? 25 MS. HYDE: Just one, and I'm done. 7-22-09 bwk 99 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Here again, I asked the wrong 2 question. 3 MS. HYDE: I just wanted to -- to reiterate, I 4 guess, or discuss for y'all's future discussion topic, 5 there's been some questions about who all do we do payroll 6 and benefits and things for. And I'd like to go ahead and 7 bring it up and throw it out there, and if I get hit, I get 8 hit. But we do about 268 true-blue Kerr County employees. 9 That's our cost. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 268, okay. 11 MS. HYDE: However, comma, we do, in H.R., District 12 Judges and their staffs, we do D.A. Curry, D.A. Barton, the 13 two -- the Extension Office, the J.P.O., and Adult Probation. 14 Now, the difference between the Adult Probation and 216th and 15 the rest of them is that we do not only their payroll; we do 16 their medical benefits, their supplementals, their AXA, their 17 457 plan. We do everything. Sometimes that's a little 18 sticky wicket, 'cause they don't really work for us, but it's 19 supposed to be like a reimbursement with all these. It helps 20 us on our cost sometimes, because, you know, we've got that 21 300 employees or plus that you guys see within the insurance 22 and things. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That includes the Adult 24 Probation? 25 MS. HYDE: It includes all those folks that I just 7-22-09 bwk 100 1 named off. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And probably airport. 3 MS. HYDE: Oh, yeah, and we got that too at the 4 airport. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now -- 6 MS. HYDE: So -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, that's 216th Adult 8 Probation and 198th Adult Probation? 9 MS. HYDE: No, sir, we don't do the 198th. I've 10 never touched the 198th in our office that I know of. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I ask you why? 12 MS. HYDE: They don't want us to do it. They have 13 somebody else do it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, they -- they are 15 getting the proper authorities probably to do it instead of 16 the county taxpayers. That's just -- that was me. Go ahead. 17 MS. HYDE: So, that's it. I mean, I don't know if 18 y'all all knew that, or recognize that. But -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see, two -- two 20 District Judges and staffs. 21 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 216th Adult Probation. 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No 198th. And -- run that 25 by me again? 7-22-09 bwk 101 1 MS. HYDE: 198th D.A. staff. Okay, 198th D.A. and 2 staff. 216th D.A. staff. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: D.A. staff. 4 MS. HYDE: Extension Office. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Extension Office. 6 MS. HARGIS: That's part of the general fund. 7 MS. HYDE: But it's also TAMU employees. And then 8 we have the J.P.O. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: TAMU employees. Who is that 10 last one? 11 MS. HYDE: Juvenile Probation. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I almost see Juvenile 13 Probation as our people -- folks. Extension Office. How 14 many is out there? How many Texas A & M employees do we take 15 care of? 16 MS. HYDE: Two. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two? 18 MS. HARGIS: Two. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 268 real, live county 20 employees. And then nobody knows how many of these other 21 folks. 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, it's in the position schedule. 23 We can -- we got it counted up. It takes us over 300. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What your suggestion is, is that for 25 those who we're not directly responsible for, maybe there 7-22-09 bwk 102 1 should be some appropriate per-employee charge for taking 2 care of these various personnel services? 3 MS. HYDE: Well, I brought that up three years ago. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm suggesting that, yeah. 5 MS. HYDE: I was looking at maybe an administration 6 charge or just -- just to remind y'all that there's -- there 7 are some others that we deal with as well. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would that charge -- what 10 is, in your mind, a reasonable administration charge? 11 MS. HYDE: Honest -- honest injun, you know, my gut 12 three years ago was I said 5 percent, which is a little bit 13 high, but 1 to 2 percent -- 1 to 2 percent of total cost. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we could discontinue the 15 service and find out real quick how much that is. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much it's worth. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, how much it's worth. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 1 percent of the payroll 19 amount? 20 MS. HYDE: I mean, you could make it 1 percent of 21 the payroll. I would probably do 1 percent of total cost, 22 total pass-through cost. But I would also like, you know, 23 Jeannie to weigh in on this as well. I mean, she's done some 24 stuff like this as well. 25 MS. HARGIS: I'd have to look at it. I never 7-22-09 bwk 103 1 thought about it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds reasonable to me to look 3 at it. I mean -- 4 MS. HYDE: I don't know if you can do that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of total dollars, I'd be 6 interested in knowing what that was. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Be interested to know what 1 or 8 2 percent of that total -- how much that generated, see if 9 that's a worthwhile number to pursue. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Ms. Hargis? 11 MS. HARGIS: No. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's fold it up, folks. Bet 13 Kathy's getting tired over here. 14 (Budget workshop was adjourned at 4:15 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 15 STATE OF TEXAS | 16 COUNTY OF KERR | 17 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 18 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 19 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 20 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 21 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of August, 22 2009. 23 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 24 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 25 Certified Shorthand Reporter 7-22-09 bwk