1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Workshop 9 Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10 1:30 p.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 18 Subdivision Rules/Regulations in the ETJ 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Wednesday, July 22, 2009, at 1:30 p.m., a workshop of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come to order, if we 7 might, for a Kerr County Commissioners Court workshop 8 scheduled and posted for this date and time, Wednesday, July 9 the 22nd, 2009, at 1:30 p.m. It is that time now. The 10 agenda item is to participate in a workshop concerning 11 Subdivision Rules and Regulations in the ETJ, and I'm going 12 to drop this one in your lap, Commissioner Letz. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Let me first kind 14 of figure out if -- what I'd hopefully like to try to 15 accomplish today is, I think everyone received a -- on the 16 Court, anyway, received a copy of a draft agreement and a map 17 that accompanied that agreement for the ETJ subdivision issue 18 that's been around for some time. I talked with the City 19 Manager yesterday, and they're -- as I understand it, they're 20 making some revisions to the contract, so we really don't 21 need to, I think, spend a whole lot of time on the contract 22 side of it. I think we're pretty much in agreement. I mean, 23 where we're going, looks like, is dividing the jurisdiction 24 in the ETJ, where it'll be city jurisdiction under city 25 rules, and county jurisdiction under county rules. And there 7-22-09 wk 3 1 may be a few little give and take between our rules and their 2 rules along the way, but not real significant. 3 The issue that I talked with the City Manager about 4 a little bit yesterday was the -- in either existing 5 subdivisions or new subdivisions that are in areas of city 6 jurisdiction, the issue of rural standards, what they're 7 going to be. And I think the answer in a nutshell from the 8 City Manager was he wasn't sure where they were going with 9 rural standards. And what I told him was, I said, you know, 10 I think that that's a very important issue, but at this 11 point, I don't think it should slow down where we're going in 12 the process. I said, I hope you -- and I think we were 13 putting it in the agreement that we think there should be a 14 rural standard for any lots that are over 5 acres in size, 15 and that we would like to have in the agreement probably that 16 we would be consulted before those standards are adopted by 17 the City, and he thought that was a proper way; he thought 18 that we should be at the table from a discussion standpoint 19 on these rural standards. 20 But, you know, I think it's just -- we just need to 21 get -- get on down the road right now. And, you know, we can 22 talk with the City, and the City can do what it wants down 23 the road on their rural standards. I've got two new maps, 24 and I don't really know the best way to look at this. I 25 think it's probably going to be necessary -- I really wasn't 7-22-09 wk 4 1 expecting as big a crowd like we have, but for us to maybe 2 spread a couple maps out on the table in front of Kathy and 3 work off of those. Can we do that, Judge? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's try that. I think it's 6 going to be easier, rather than trying to pass a map around. 7 If y'all just go down here, we can look -- you can leave your 8 maps up here. I've got that map and some other maps. Those 9 that want to look can look over our shoulders. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So this could be an aerobics 11 class. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That means y'all need to come 13 down here. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. All right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have to? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's helpful. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I love that yellow. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to see? 19 MS. GRINSTEAD: I'm fine. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the map we got from the 21 City. The yellow colors are the -- would be the county 22 jurisdiction areas. Or this is -- the green's the ETJ line, 23 the city limits line, and the other color would be the city 24 jurisdiction. I had a new map put together, put topography 25 and existing subdivisions on it, which are, to me, really 7-22-09 wk 5 1 critical as to who handles what, and then I just colored it 2 yellow best I could do by hand, the same areas. And I think 3 it shows the areas that I have a -- I think some changes need 4 to be made, both on the county jurisdiction side and the city 5 jurisdiction side. On the -- probably start over by the 6 airport and go around a little bit, this area here. This is 7 Creekwood and this is Twin Springs. The -- under the City's 8 map, it was left that that would be under their jurisdiction. 9 That really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The reason 10 is, Creekwood has a 25-acre minimum lot size under their 11 H.O.A. They can't change that. I think it takes 80 percent 12 vote to do it. That ain't going to happen any time in the 13 near future. May happen in 50 years. But -- and if there is 14 some development, to me, the area that would be, it would be 15 along here, some farm road, likely. 16 I'd like to draw the line somewhere here, maybe 17 1,000 foot off the city limits line, maybe 2,000 feet, some 18 line that comes across, like, here and gives most of 19 Creekwood to the county jurisdiction. And then have in the 20 -- in the rules that if any subdivision comes in that crosses 21 internally our arbitrary lines that we're drawing, City would 22 have jurisdiction. That way, if someone were, you know, to 23 expand or something, but I think, to me, 1,000 foot along 24 here would make sense, basically along Peterson Farm -- or 25 1,000 feet out from the city limit line. The same -- you 7-22-09 wk 6 1 know, I -- really, Twin Springs, you know, I kind of think 2 the same way there. I don't see the reason for that being 3 city jurisdiction. There's a little piece right here between 4 Twin Springs and what the -- the City had as county 5 jurisdiction. I don't know why that was left out. The way I 6 looked at it, there's a little piece, really, basically in 7 between those two drawings; it's a hill between two canyons, 8 and I don't know -- to me, you would smooth that out so that 9 the county jurisdiction line would kind of come like this and 10 go up along the subdivision line, and then kind of back over 11 to here, so the County would pull a little more on that 12 outside area. 13 Over in this area, no question at all till you get 14 to Highway 16. There's an area -- the only area that's not 15 in a platted subdivision right north of 16 within the ETJ is 16 this area right here, and the City had that as coming into 17 our jurisdiction. To me, that doesn't make sense. That 18 should probably be city jurisdiction. That's going to be 19 a -- likely, some kind of commercial or higher density 20 development, if I was to guess what's going to go out there, 21 and that land's actually being cleared right now, some of 22 that. I would think that this line should be the City's 23 jurisdiction, at least the part certainly next to Highway 16, 24 'cause I can see that as being a higher density, more 25 urban-type development. 7-22-09 wk 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be the west side 2 of 16? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, the west side of 16. This 4 existing subdivision, which are older lots, what's it called? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Scenic Hills. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Scenic Hills. And all that 7 area up in here, I don't see -- to me, I see that more as 8 rural. To me, that makes more sense to be -- certainly, the 9 outer part of that, to be county jurisdiction. All that's 10 going to happen out there is occasionally some replats. Some 11 of those are -- you know, there might be a couple 100-acre 12 tracts; I doubt there's many that big. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not very much. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of them are probably 15, 15 20 acres, 5 acres, in that area. This area through here, 16 this is Harper Road, James Avery area. Clearly, that should 17 be city jurisdiction. Out through here is all -- I think 18 that's kind of where the Andy Phillips -- some of his newer 19 projects are. 20 MR. COLEMAN: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That should be city 22 jurisdiction. That's already being developed. And, really, 23 all the way over around here, I don't -- I think that's 24 pretty urban, likely, development. There's a few larger 25 tracts in the area of Goat Creek Cutoff and Goat Creek Road 7-22-09 wk 8 1 right in here. But, you know, that -- the intent of that 2 is -- 'cause I happen to know the owner; that is going to be 3 a development of some sort, so that's kind of all urban all 4 the way -- to me, all the way around over to the south side 5 of the river. Just for reference, this is Saddlewood right 6 here. And I really think, to me, the area out towards the 7 ETJ is more county type rural developments. I don't see it's 8 ever going to make a high density along that area. Along the 9 river, all the way back to Kerrville South, to me, that is a 10 logical way for the City -- so, to me, this line would kind 11 of come out to here, maybe, you know, something like that. 12 This is Kerrville South. I -- I wonder a little 13 bit in Kerrville South if it wouldn't make more sense for the 14 City to take some jurisdiction right at the city limit line. 15 You know, based on kind of looking at roads a little bit, I 16 think there can be some adjustments there. I know the City 17 does, I think unanimously, not want Kerrville South in that 18 jurisdiction. But, you know, I think if you're going to get 19 some commercial development and things like that, it would 20 make sense to me right along the city limit line and highway 21 lines. Coming out Highway 16 south, this area here, to me is 22 pretty rural. But, you know, it's not a -- I don't have a 23 real high, you know, strong issue one way or the other. To 24 me, I'd probably extend the county, like, from this 25 subdivision here kind of back over to the strip out there. 7-22-09 wk 9 1 And there's, you know, a couple of reasons for doing, you 2 know, this. 3 I think that one -- well, on this one back here, 4 it's backed up almost all through existing platted 5 subdivisions; there's very little unplatted land back there, 6 and I think that a lot of the -- I think the criteria that 7 we've been talking about with the City has been in existing 8 subdivisions, one of the criteria that the County would 9 maintain jurisdiction. The things that would negate that 10 would be the City's long-term water plan, annexation plans, 11 and things of that nature, and that would kind of trump being 12 in an existing subdivision. I don't see this as falling in 13 that category. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the 14 areas that I've seen fall in this category. This area over 15 here is Turtle Creek Road, back up kind of near Comanche 16 Trace. I think this makes sense, by the terrain and also the 17 development in that area, that that would also be city 18 jurisdiction. And then back over here on the south side of 19 the river, Quail Valley and -- what's the other one over 20 there? Quail Springs, Quail -- whatever it's called, a 21 couple of subdivisions there would be in our jurisdiction. 22 MR. ODOM: The Woods, you're talking about? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Woods is on this side. 24 This is -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Homestead and The Woods. 7-22-09 wk 10 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, this is all county 2 jurisdiction. I didn't color that yellow. Trying to give it 3 back to you, Kevin. 4 MR. BROWNING: From where? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is all -- this whole 6 section is county jurisdiction, south side of the river. 7 MR. BROWNING: All this? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right here. This little piece 9 right here is, this piece right here. And, actually, under 10 your plan -- I just didn't draw it right -- the south side of 11 the river, all of this is county jurisdiction. 12 MR. BROWNING: And this right here? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, right there. And I 14 wouldn't -- basically, this whole area over here, I wouldn't 15 make any changes. I like the way it was drawn. So, that's 16 kind of the -- I talked to Todd; I said, you know, we have 17 some -- at least I had some revisions I think would make 18 sense, that were consistent with the criteria that the City 19 was using and we were using, to discuss. And, I didn't know 20 if there were some things that I missed, and which possibly 21 -- 'cause I don't have a couple of things that the City has 22 on their maps, such as I have no idea what the annexation 23 plan would be, and also what the water projections are 24 projected to be. So if the Court's in kind of agreement with 25 that, my recommendation would be that I'll color in more 7-22-09 wk 11 1 yellow on this map and make a copy of it and ship it back to 2 the City and let them look at it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, how hard is it to -- I 4 mean, you and I can sit here and define all those areas, I 5 think, but how hard is it going to be to really define the 6 boundaries? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to come up with 8 something like either a distance from the ETJ line in, or 9 from the city limits out, so that it's clearly -- you know, 10 you can plot it, GPS or otherwise, and say you're on this 11 line or you're not on that line. If it crosses that line, 12 like I said earlier, I think it should go to city 13 jurisdiction. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that how do you it? 15 MR. COLEMAN: At some point, we talked -- and 16 Jonathan is talking about a 1,000 foot kind of barrier 17 specifically, like -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. COLEMAN: Well, a number of places here and up 20 in there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 2,000. 22 MR. COLEMAN: The City's got kind of a standing 23 rule that if the plat's within 2,000 feet of existing 24 service, then you need to tie into the City's existing 25 service, or be waived out of that. 7-22-09 wk 12 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, -- 2 MR. COLEMAN: So, that would be kind of a common -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 2,000 would make sense, 4 then. That makes sense. 5 MR. COLEMAN: And then again, I think that's going 6 to be more determined -- and an advantage to that would be, 7 we don't -- we don't have to renegotiate the line. The City 8 has a line in the ground, and if it's 2,000 feet from that 9 line in the ground, kind of -- you know, that solves some of 10 that issue along here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. COLEMAN: Probably solves a good bit of that up 13 on Kerrville hills, or -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you talking about sewer 15 line? 16 MR. COLEMAN: Water. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Utility. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, then, that would solve 19 the problem on those substandard size lots on Goat Creek 20 Cutoff that were approved, and they're too small for septic. 21 MR. COLEMAN: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So they need to be able to 23 hook in, because they're about 2,000 feet from the existing 24 line. 25 MR. COLEMAN: They are -- and correct me if I'm 7-22-09 wk 13 1 wrong; the Goat Creek, the little commercial piece out there? 2 AUDIENCE: Uh-huh. 3 MR. COLEMAN: We had that discussion. They are 4 2,000 feet as the crow flies, but 2,000 feet -- to actually 5 get there, they're past that, you know, following the logical 6 trail for the drain lines. And so -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which are we going to have, 8 as the crow flies or -- 9 MR. COLEMAN: Our rule is as the crow flies, and 10 so -- you know, but again, they got a variance out from 11 underneath that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who owns the damn cross? 13 That's what I want to know. 14 MR. COLEMAN: All the way down to Mooney, right? 15 That's why that jumped out in my mind. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2,000 feet here. 17 MR. COLEMAN: 2,000 foot, which is about a half a 18 mile, more or less. 19 MR. ODOM: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not much less. 21 MR. COLEMAN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs to be a -- I 23 mean, I think, as much as possible, we need to follow either 24 a footage from the city limits line or existing subdivision, 25 something that's definable, so that there's not a question as 7-22-09 wk 14 1 to whose property it is. Existing subdivisions or footage 2 from the city limits, to me, would make the most sense. I 3 think you try to follow -- or a road. It just has to be -- 4 you know, we just don't want to draw a line across someone's 5 ranch. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and too, Ray just told 7 me a while ago that, you know, this subdivision that came in 8 that's on Goat Creek Cutoff, another one of Andy Phillips' 9 deals, well, that L.C.R.A. line is coming down through there, 10 and that is going to substantially change those lots that we 11 kind of gave them a go-ahead on, because that's going to 12 encumber a bunch of property on those lots, and they're going 13 to be too small. They're going to have to reconfigure that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In order to be able to use 16 them for legitimate lots and get septic, 'cause septic cannot 17 go within that right-of-way. 18 MR. ODOM: Isn't Wren Road part of y'all's master 19 plan too, all the area back in there? Isn't that part of the 20 City's master plan? 21 MR. COLEMAN: It is, yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's all in the city 23 jurisdiction. 24 MR. ODOM: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, this -- everything 7-22-09 wk 15 1 pretty much from Highway 16 to the west is all city 2 jurisdiction, and only -- only area that would be different 3 is along Bear Creek and that area down here. Everything 4 north of the river -- kind of north of the river and west of 5 16, that's all city jurisdiction area, primarily. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then they need to provide 7 service in there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One step at a time. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I just thought I'd get 10 my lick in early. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No harm in trying. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, that's kind of -- 13 you know, after I spent some time looking at it, how I would 14 redraw it, I just wanted to get it mainly before the Court. 15 And if the Court's in agreement, I'll redraw that, bring it 16 to -- it'll be on our agenda to approve on Monday. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then it goes back to the 18 City for them to whack on some more? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully to approve it, at 20 least approve the map. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Goes back to the City for 22 approval? 23 MR. COLEMAN: I know we have an item on our Tuesday 24 agenda for discussion, and then -- right? There's some sort 25 of joint meeting two weeks from today? 7-22-09 wk 16 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 29th. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 29th. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Hopefully, it may be 4 able to be resolved. If y'all just don't accept it, I think 5 there's going to be a little bit of give and take on the 6 actual language in a few areas, 'cause we haven't heard from 7 Rex yet on -- I know that the City, either staff or council, 8 one, has changes to the draft with the City, and that's -- 9 once council signs off on that, Todd Parton said he would 10 forward a copy over for us to have on Monday. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kevin, the joint meeting is 12 a week from today. 13 MR. COLEMAN: A week from today, yes. Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just whatever we can do, I 15 hope that -- that the City will not approve too small of lots 16 in the future in the ETJ. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I think some of 18 those areas, we're -- those are also things that would need 19 to be in the agreement as to the process, and it's in the 20 agreement, actually, the process of any plat that we receive 21 or they receive in the ETJ in their respective jurisdictions, 22 you know, they have to go to Road and Bridge or their 23 Planning Department, Environmental Health. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Environmental Health is -- 25 is, you know, pretty critical, because if they don't have a 7-22-09 wk 17 1 big enough lot, they can't get septic; they can't really have 2 a house. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So they were trying to 4 make that a little bit clearer. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I think that's the -- 6 you know, that really is one of the real basic concerns that 7 I had. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're -- I mean, we're, 9 in my mind, you know, 90 percent there, finally. And I think 10 this is going to work. It's -- it's not just arbitrarily 11 doing things; it's looking at a combination of subdivisions, 12 terrain, city services, the best criteria that we have 13 available to us, and trying to make a decision. And as Kevin 14 frequently says at meetings, this is only a five-year deal, 15 probably. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, put your finger back on 18 that Fredericksburg Road issue out there. Right there, that 19 thing right there. I don't know if that's some rancher 20 clearing his land or what -- exactly what's going on, but 21 something is going on. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right in there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right in here. And I don't 25 know the property ownership there. I just -- you know -- 7-22-09 wk 18 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's Dunks. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it's right past 3 Dunks. You may be right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's John Dunks. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, you may be right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- you know, it's a big 7 piece of property. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, Dunks is -- what, he 9 has about 1,100 or 1,200 acres in there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About what it looks like. But 11 it just seems to me, I see -- I was kind of surprised the 12 City didn't have it on their map, just because that's one of 13 the few large unplatted areas on the north side of Kerrville, 14 and it seems that that was -- is a likely -- will get platted 15 at some point. And it may be a year, may be -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: After Dunks is dead and gone, 17 I can tell you that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May be up to 20, how long it 19 is. That's an area that will be developed, I would say. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, probably someday. I 21 don't think it will be any time soon. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it, Commissioner. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you did a good job on 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7-22-09 wk 19 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now, if we can -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see if we can make it 3 happen. 4 MR. ODOM: If it's in their jurisdiction, then they 5 take care of floodplain? 6 MR. COLEMAN: Yes. 7 MR. ODOM: If it's in this area, they take care of 8 it. If it's in that color right there, I take care of it, 9 right? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll have to change the 11 agreement to do that, but that could be done. I mean, I 12 would -- and that's really a Mike Hayes question, whether the 13 City has jurisdiction. I would think, through interlocal 14 agreement, they would. 15 MR. ODOM: Let's say they don't -- if they don't 16 plat, it's still in their jurisdiction, so they should take 17 care of it, right? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't know. 19 MR. ODOM: Those are the questions, outside the 20 platting process. 21 AUDIENCE: I don't think we can. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure we can. 23 MR. ODOM: I think the law says they can. 24 AUDIENCE: I don't think we can, Leonard. I think 25 that's the way our agreement is. 7-22-09 wk 20 1 MR. ODOM: That's a different thing, I know. Let's 2 don't leave it hanging there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll address who has 4 subdivision -- who has -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Somebody does need to take 6 care of floodplain. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 MR. ODOM: Platting's not a question, but if they 9 don't plat, then -- 10 MR. COLEMAN: Outside of platting, right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may be a question if they do 12 plat. If it's in the city jurisdiction, we need to make sure 13 that they have authority to do floodplain. 14 MR. COLEMAN: And -- yeah. More accurately, we 15 exercise our authority so that the eventual builder can 16 accommodate -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 MR. COLEMAN: -- your floodplain permit, you know. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to address the 20 floodplain no matter what happens between the city limits and 21 the ETJ line. All right. 22 MR. ODOM: Okay. 23 MR. COLEMAN: Commissioner, you're going to 24 consider your map a little bit more and get us a copy of it? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we'll -- 7-22-09 wk 21 1 MR. COLEMAN: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- get it to you probably -- 3 probably Monday, after we vote on it. 4 MR. COLEMAN: Okay. You guys are seeing -- I got 5 enough in my notes. You and I are going to leave. Is there 6 any question on the ETJ, the write-up part, the agreement 7 itself? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was, in my mind, pretty 9 simple. I just think that there were a few things that we 10 just need to address. And it was pretty much what -- the way 11 it was written, what's good for the goose is good for the 12 gander, so I think we just have to look at it and get it to 13 legal to look at those changes and a few other... 14 MR. COLEMAN: One thing, if you would, just so that 15 everybody here knows -- you know, it's been talked about in 16 smaller meetings, but maybe not with the whole group -- is 17 that that five-year window, that five-year agreement, that's 18 really purposeful, 'cause that's kind of our projection of 19 the timeline that the city of Kerrville kind of mounts the 20 threshold of 25,000 people, which would put it to a 2-mile 21 ETJ, so we'd be opening it up at that point anyway. That's 22 kind of the concept behind -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But hopefully the agreement 24 could still stand behind this. 25 MR. COLEMAN: Right, but we have to deal with that 7-22-09 wk 22 1 specific issue. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There needs to be a provision 3 that the maps can be, you know, modified without changing the 4 whole agreement. 5 MR. COLEMAN: Right, annexations made or -- very 6 good. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right on time, 2 o'clock. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on -- on the 10 ETJ matter? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, sir, not from me. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If not, we will adjourn that 13 particular meeting. 14 (The ETJ workshop was adjourned at 2 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - - 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-22-09 wk 23 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 23rd day of July, 2009. 8 9 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 10 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 11 Certified Shorthand Reporter 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-22-09 wk