1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11 2:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 18, 2009 2 PAGE Review and discuss FY 2009-10 Budgets and fiscal, 3 capital expenditure and personnel matters related thereto for various County Departments, including, 4 but not limited to the following departments: 5 Report from Financial Adviser ....................... 3 Sheriff's Office/Jail/Courthouse Security .......... 11 6 Crime Victims ...................................... 41 Indigent Health Care ............................... 43 7 DPS ................................................ 49 Road & Bridge ...................................... 54 8 County Clerk ....................................... 65 Juvenile Probation Department ...................... 71 9 Environmental Health ............................... 74 Information Technology ............................. 79 10 Extension Service .................................. 91 County Sponsored ................................... 95 11 Collections ........................................ 98 City/County Joint Operations ...................... 101 12 --- Adjourned 138 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, August 18, 2009, at 2:00 p.m., a budget 2 workshop meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was 3 held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we come to order 8 for the Commissioners Court workshop scheduled for this date 9 and time, Tuesday, August 18th, 2009, at 2 p.m. It is that 10 time now. So, the agenda for today is to review and discuss 11 Fiscal Year 2009-10 budgets and fiscal capital expenditure 12 and personnel matters related thereto for various county 13 departments, including, but not limited to, a number of 14 different departments that we will take up one by one. But 15 first, we have with us today Mr. Bob Henderson from RBC 16 Capital, who is our financial adviser, having been so for, I 17 guess, 20-plus now? Twenty-plus years? 18 MR. HENDERSON: Since about '84. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's going on 25, seems to 20 me like. We're glad to have you here, Bob, and I know you've 21 been dealing with Ms. Hargis, and I've had some limited 22 discussions with you relative to possible debt issue for 23 capital items, and so I'm going to turn it over to you at 24 this time. 25 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Judge and members of the 8-18-09 bwk 4 1 Court. It's a pleasure to be here with you, as always. I 2 know you've got a long agenda, so I'm going to try to hit 3 this pretty quickly. But as always, I can get long-winded, 4 so feel free to interrupt me at any time with any questions 5 that you might have. I've handed out a package that has got 6 a preliminary budget in it. It's identified as the sources 7 and uses. Ms. Hargis was showing me the current rendition of 8 that budget. We know that we're continuing to get estimates 9 here and there, so that number is changing. But, basically, 10 assuming that the building the Court has been discussing 11 comes in around $850,000, and that the airport improvements 12 that has been, I think, discussed jointly with the City is 13 handled by other mechanisms, you'd be looking at around 14 $2,975,000 in tax notes. We are talking about tax notes, 15 which is the same thing the Commissioners Court did last 16 year. By definition, under the Constitution, the tax note 17 cannot have a maturity of greater than seven years, so you're 18 talking about borrowing money and paying it back very, very 19 quickly. Which, of course, keeps you on the -- the low end 20 of the yield curve, which is a fancy 5 o'clock news way of 21 saying pretty cheap interest rates, because you're borrowing 22 for such a short period of time. 23 The second page in this handout is what we call 24 a -- a tax rate impact analysis, and this is just on the 25 interest and sinking fund tax, that portion of your tax rate 8-18-09 bwk 5 1 that's dedicated to repaying debt. And if I could walk you 2 through this spreadsheet very quickly, I think you'll -- 3 you'll understand better where we're -- where were at and 4 where we're going. Column B is taxable assessed valuation. 5 The certified rolls that have been delivered to the County 6 indicate an adjusted-for-freeze value of $2,850,000,000. We 7 have lowered the growth rate assumptions from what had been 8 used last year, because of the global economic crisis and of 9 course, the continuing impact of -- of the population getting 10 older, and us losing progressively more value every year to 11 the over-65 freeze. Columns C, F, G, and H all represent 12 currently outstanding debt obligations of the county, dating 13 back to 1994; the G.O. bonds, and then certificate of 14 obligation in '05, the capital lease in '06, and the series 15 '08 tax notes. 16 What you'll notice is that in each of the next 17 three, four years in a row, you are paying off old debt. And 18 in 2010, this current fiscal year, your series '05 19 certificates of obligation pay off. The following year, the 20 series '06 capital lease pays off. The year after that, 1994 21 bonds pay off, and then finally, in 2013, the series '08 tax 22 notes pay off. So, the County not only has a very modest 23 amount of debt outstanding, which, of course, is reflected in 24 your very good bond ratings, but what bonds that you have 25 outstanding pays off very quickly. That gives you a great 8-18-09 bwk 6 1 deal of latitude with respect to meeting your future capital 2 improvement needs. Column K is an estimate of the '09 tax 3 notes. This, again, is based on the $2,975,000 that's under 4 the previous page in terms of sources and uses. Again, a 5 final maturity of only seven years, because that's the 6 maximum that the Constitution allows you to do with tax 7 notes. 8 And you can see that if you go over to Column P, 9 your tax rate, which is currently scheduled to be 4.96 cents 10 on your I.N.S. tax rate, and that's based on existing debt; 11 doesn't take into consideration any new debt at all. That 12 tax rate would basically stay the same, even after the 13 issuance of the tax notes, at right at 4.95, 4.98 cents. 14 And, again, at the risk of being purely redundant, the reason 15 that is the case is because you do have debt that's paying 16 off in each of the next several years, so we're able to layer 17 this debt in and accomplish it without raising the I.N.S. tax 18 rate. The other thing that we've done in this -- in this 19 analysis is the Column M -- "M" as in Mary -- which has a 20 very hypothetical debt issuance out in 2013 in the amount of 21 $8 million. I know that this is very premature to be 22 discussing it at the commissioners court level, but part of 23 my job as financial adviser is to look long-term at what your 24 other needs are going to be, and we know that at some point 25 in time in the future, you're going to need to have another 8-18-09 bwk 7 1 jail. Probably not going to happen in the next three, five 2 years. Ms. Hargis had indicated -- and the Sheriff's 3 standing right here and can speak for himself, but I 4 understood Ms. Hargis to say that it may be, according to the 5 Sheriff, five to seven years before you need another jail. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With the way things are 7 currently going, I think that's a very real possibility. 8 Could be longer than that. 9 MR. HENDERSON: But the reason this jail figure is 10 included is just simply to see and to confirm that what you 11 do with respect to tax notes in 2009 will not interfere with 12 the latitude of the Commissioners Court to meet its future 13 needs. And that's the only reason it's here, is to 14 demonstrate that even with the possibility of a jail issue 15 several years down the road, we would still anticipate your 16 I.N.S. tax rate to either remain the same, or very likely 17 fall. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could be the jail or 19 anything else that's capital. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Any other -- anything else that's 21 paid for out of ad valorem property taxes, yes, sir. The 22 subsequent pages are really just supporting documents. I 23 know how Commissioner Williams is in particular with respect 24 to understanding what the costs are up front, so -- he and I 25 have worked together a long time. So, the next page is an 8-18-09 bwk 8 1 estimate of the cost of issuance that would be involved if 2 the Commissioners Court were to move forward, and the page 3 after that is a breakdown of the series '09 issue between 4 principal and estimated interest. We're showing 5 percent 5 now. In the interest of conservatism, we would anticipate 6 interest rates, if you were to sell the bonds by -- the tax 7 notes in the next handful of weeks, would be substantially 8 less than 5 percent, but we calculated to 5 percent just, 9 again, for planning purposes. And then the last page is the 10 $8 million for the jail out in 2013, with the first payment 11 in 2014. That is also run at 5 percent. Obviously, as 12 you've heard me say many times before, if I could predict 13 with accuracy what the interest rates would be, we'd be 14 discussing things from my satellite phone off my yacht in the 15 Caribbean somewhere. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or just talking to each 18 other while we're on your boat. 19 MR. HENDERSON: Yeah. But that could get us all in 20 trouble. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 MR. HENDERSON: But, anyway, I know I went through 23 that very quickly. I think the short analysis is, you have a 24 variety of needs, and you can certainly meet those needs with 25 the same type of short-term funding mechanism the County has 8-18-09 bwk 9 1 utilized in the past, and do so without a tax rate increase 2 this year, nor the anticipation of a tax rate increase in the 3 future. The Judge did ask me, because we know that this 4 Sources and Uses statement is very preliminary, you know, if 5 we need more money because of the airport project, because of 6 this building, how much more money can we get without having 7 to worry about pressure on the tax rate? And -- and a quick 8 and easy answer is $250,000, $300,000 additional money. If 9 we need more than that, I can play with the numbers a little 10 bit. If we stretch the -- the jail financing out just one 11 year, from '013 to '014, that would give you the capacity to 12 issue $800,000 or $900,000 more money without having a tax 13 rate increase. So, I congratulate the Commissioners Court; 14 you know, the strategy that we've employed for the last 15 several years continues to give you a great deal of 16 flexibility to finance your needs without tax rate increases. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've done that alongside 18 you, and appreciate it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Henderson? 20 Bob, we thank you for all that you've done, and as 21 Commissioner Baldwin said, that a lot of the successes that 22 we've been able to have have been with your guidance and with 23 your assistance, and we appreciate that. You've always been 24 one to not play us a nice tune just 'cause you think that's 25 what we'd like to hear, but have played us the tune that we 8-18-09 bwk 10 1 needed to hear for the true reality of our finances. And as 2 a consequence, as you say, we -- we've got a balance sheet 3 that's really enviable to a lot of counties and a lot of 4 local governments by virtue of the very, very low percentage 5 of debt that we're carrying, and -- and we appreciate your 6 efforts in helping us get there. 7 MR. HENDERSON: I appreciate it. I told the 8 Commissioners Court 25 years ago I was going to shoot 9 straight, 'cause I wanted to hang around, and here we've been 10 here 25 years. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We appreciate you very 12 much. What's the time frame, Bob, between time the Court 13 approves going forward and funding, roughly? 14 MR. HENDERSON: Roughly, six weeks. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MR. HENDERSON: And that's -- we could sell it in 17 less than that, but in terms of money in the bank, six weeks. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bond market holding up 19 pretty good out there? 20 MR. HENDERSON: It is. The -- the global financial 21 crisis continues to -- to remain volatile. In a conversation 22 with the County Auditor and County Judge just this morning, 23 we were talking about how things were looking very rosy in 24 the economy just ten days ago, but we saw some economic news 25 last week with inflation numbers, with housing starts, with 8-18-09 bwk 11 1 consumer spending, that things may not pick back up as 2 quickly as we thought they would. You know, again, I say 3 "we." The -- the consensus thought was -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Conventional wisdom. 5 MR. HENDERSON: Conventional wisdom, 10 weeks -- 10 6 days, two weeks ago. But, ironically, for debt issuers such 7 as the County, that could actually be good news. We saw the 8 interest rates for several weeks trending up in anticipation 9 of a recovering economy, possibly in anticipation of 10 inflation induced by some of the federal government spending. 11 Some of the news in the last week has actually turned 12 interest rates back down a little bit. And a slow economy is 13 not good for a lot of reasons, but one positive aspect is, it 14 generally means low interest rates, and it generally means 15 favorable construction contracts. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Bob. We appreciate it, 21 and I'm sure we'll be in touch as things progress. 22 MR. HENDERSON: Okey-dokey. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for making the trip up 24 here, and your work. Thank you very much. Okay. 25 Ms. Hargis -- Sheriff, where are we on your budgets? I know 8-18-09 bwk 12 1 that you have been working closely with Ms. Hargis on all of 2 yours, and I think most of the kinks and nuances have been 3 pretty well worked out. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we had. One big 5 thing, if we take out what Ms. Hargis had taken out and put 6 it in the capital line item, my budget from last year to this 7 year drops 150,000. I think that's very key in there. One 8 thing I did misspeak about last week when we were in here, I 9 told you we had the grant for the five cars from AACOG. We 10 do not have that grant yet. We won't know until the end of 11 September, first part of October, is what they're saying now. 12 Clay and them had to even go back in and get back with the 13 Governor's office and do some things. We got a favorable 14 review from AACOG, but that doesn't mean that we're going to 15 get them. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Money's not in the bank 17 yet. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Money's not in the bank. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the time frame working 20 on the Homeland Security grant? Two weeks? Three weeks? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, no. The one with the 22 radios and everything in it? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one, we may not hear for 25 six to eight months. 8-18-09 bwk 13 1 MR. BARTON: We don't present that until 2 September 23rd, and they'll make a determination several 3 months probably after that, be able to make a determination; 4 then it will go back to the Governor's office. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, what I'm recommending in 6 that is that we put that money in the -- in the capital 7 expenditure, but with the different departments that it 8 involves, especially with radios, being Animal Control, the 9 constables, and my office, is that they just have a caveat on 10 there, they can't spend it until we hear from that grant. 11 'Cause I think, you know, we stand a favorable chance of 12 getting that grant, 'cause it's the second half of one we got 13 last year. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about vehicles? Or 15 talking about radios? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Radios. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about vehicles? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The vehicles, I won't know -- 19 on the type that we put in for a grant, I won't know until 20 the end of September, first part of October. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But are we going to -- are 22 you asking us to function, then, the same way? To put the 23 money in there, and you can't touch it unless -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, because what I'm asking on 25 that -- I know it's mentioned, but if this capital 8-18-09 bwk 14 1 expenditure is going to go out for two years, all right? I 2 currently have 26 vehicles with over 100,000 miles, several 3 of them with up to 198,000, 200,000. Twenty-six vehicles, 4 and not replacing any other ones for the two years after 5 this, I really think we need to take a -- a serious look at 6 our vehicle situation and get it back in line, which I would 7 like to -- to hopefully get the grant for five, and then put 8 10 in this capital expenditure, so that we would be replacing 9 a total of 15 vehicles. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That's over a two-year period, the 11 10 you're talking about? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, effectively, five each year. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. So that we 15 wouldn't have to put any in next year either, because of the 16 capital expenditures. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I sure wouldn't put -- count 18 on putting any in next year. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I wouldn't. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Somehow, next year, I 21 believe, is going to be a -- a lot worse year than the one 22 we're about to go into. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's exactly why 24 Ms. Hargis and I looked at it that way, and I think that 25 would be the best way that we can look at doing it. 8-18-09 bwk 15 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, what if the -- I guess 2 how imminent -- how quickly do you need those radios 3 replaced? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'll put it this way; 5 I've got half the department that can't talk to Kerrville 6 P.D. right now. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But your supervisors on each shift 8 can? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. My investigators cannot. 10 My warrants cannot. The -- most of the patrol can at this 11 point, okay? Narcotics, yeah, we had some in there. Mainly, 12 it's the investigators and the warrants and civil, and then 13 the constables and Animal Control. And I think it is -- but 14 to me, it is a bad situation, because I have even some times 15 they get on another channel that's got their deal scrambled, 16 and I can be right next to them and not hear them, and I 17 think that's dangerous on their part. Wish it could have 18 been a little bit better organized before they went digital. 19 And then on the 50,000 that's in there, that's to narrow-band 20 us, which we are on a time frame limit from the F.C.C. on 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're talking about Crown 23 Vics for the cars, not -- not Yukons? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm talking about Crown Vics, 25 although we have had some interest in somebody that may want 8-18-09 bwk 16 1 to privately fund the upgrade, to upgrade some of those Crown 2 Vics to -- to the Yukons. 3 AUDIENCE: Tahoes. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tahoes. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To Yukons? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Like we have now. And I think 7 if they want to do that, that would be a big blessing, 8 because the resale price is a lot better. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about the -- the cameras 10 for the rape prevention law? This is -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That can come out if you need 12 to take it out. What that is, is the federal government did 13 enact that several years ago. It's a Prison Rape Prevention 14 Act that says that anywhere an inmate could be sexually 15 assaulted, assaulted, anything else, you have to be able to 16 monitor that area. Our jail was built with no cameras inside 17 the cells, okay? So, that is a -- you know, that's 18 enacted -- they've got to come out by the end of this year, 19 first part of -- or January, federal government does, for the 20 plan to implement it. Now, when it first got enacted, they 21 sent several million dollars down to the states. I called 22 the Governor's office and said, "Okay, how do we apply for 23 this money?" And they said, "You do not. It's going to the 24 state prison system, not the county jails." So, that's where 25 we're at with it. It is going to hit us. We are going to 8-18-09 bwk 17 1 have to do it. Whether it's going to be one year, you know, 2 two years, I don't know. But I thought it may be 3 advantageous for us to start looking at it. But that 150 4 could actually come out. That's just trying to look forward 5 and what could happen with the federal government. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hargis? 7 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With these numbers, there's 9 several items in here that maybe come from the grant or that 10 we could opt out of a little bit. How do we -- what do you 11 recommend is the way that we narrow the list down? I mean, I 12 don't see a whole lot on here that I totally disagree with, 13 or disagree with the need for them, but I may disagree with 14 the timing of them. So, you know, I don't want to 15 over-borrow. 16 MS. HARGIS: I understand. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't want to 18 under-borrow. 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, my -- my big apprehension here 20 is that we under-borrow. And we don't know about the 150, 21 but we do know that the building itself right now may or may 22 not -- I mean, the costs that I have on that is -- that Peter 23 Lewis gave me was $112 a foot for a 12,000 square foot 24 building, and then an additional $60,000 for the parking. 25 So, the -- I put the -- we can take the radios out, but if we 8-18-09 bwk 18 1 don't get the grant, we do have a problem. But we can use 2 that money, then, to -- you know, if the airport goes over or 3 something, because this is a two-year look out. It's really 4 hard for me, even some of the departments, to know exactly 5 what they need to do. I think -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I -- 7 MS. HARGIS: -- you have eight air-conditioners 8 fixed on the top now. I believe it's eight. Tim just left. 9 I believe we have eight done. This probably will take care 10 of the rest of those. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I would recommend you 12 take out, if you want to take out something, is the -- 13 MS. HARGIS: The rape -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- 150,000 for those cameras 15 under the Rape Prevention Act, 'cause I just -- you know, we 16 haven't heard when they're going to force us to comply. And 17 we could work either small grants or different things to get 18 one or two cameras at a time, just to show that we are 19 working that way. I don't think we would have a problem. 20 And I'd just -- with our type of supervision we have in the 21 jail, I think we're doing good, anyhow. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hargis? With respect 23 to the issue of the vehicles, -- 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- we're talking about -- 8-18-09 bwk 19 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are three different line 2 items in this summary. 3 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- purchase of five 5 vehicles and equipment this current budget year, paying off 6 existing leases for the '08 leases of Tahoe and the Crown 7 Vics, 88,000, and then an additional 190 for five cars in 8 2011. My question is, then there would be no lease payments 9 in the Sheriff's budget -- operating budget until when? 10 MS. HARGIS: 2012. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2012? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 13 MS. HARGIS: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: And that also -- and we added one this 16 morning, actually, when the Judge and I were working with Bob 17 Henderson, and Roy Walston came by. We discussed whether or 18 not we should put -- and I added that line item to take the 19 van that we bought for him and pay it off as well. That way 20 we wouldn't have any lease payments for any vehicles for -- 21 at least till 2012, which will -- those are our big-ticket 22 items, either leases or capital items. I also asked John, 23 and he just sent it to me, and I didn't add to it what he 24 thought, because the 307 for I.T. is strictly just for one 25 year. So, there are -- you know, the way the computers are 8-18-09 bwk 20 1 kind of scheduled -- and, John, help me if I'm wrong, but 2 he's trying to change those out about every three to four 3 years so that our equipment stays fairly new. So, that -- 4 that item -- but I believe by paying off all our vehicles in 5 this, that that is definitely going to free us up for two 6 years, and I think that's real important to do. And that's a 7 true capital expense. 8 The only -- I think, depending on -- I think you 9 want the video equipment, since we have the opportunity to 10 grab that grant. That's one-third, instead of paying 100 11 percent of that. There are some small items that we might be 12 able to, you know, put back in there, maintenance or 13 equipment. And I did put back the second vehicle for the 14 Maintenance Department. It was two -- it was two trucks, not 15 one. So, we have -- he says that he probably can do with two 16 small trucks instead of two big trucks, so that 30,000 will 17 probably be enough. Adult Probation has some extra money in 18 their equipment this year that they don't want to send back, 19 and so they have -- are looking into possibly buying those 20 Bobcat attachments for us. I just talked with him yesterday 21 about that, so we -- maybe we can remove that. The narrow 22 band, that 50,000, has to stay in. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's one other thing I told 24 the Judge that I'd get kind of an estimate on, and we did, 25 and that's putting in a fence for -- for our own impound yard 8-18-09 bwk 21 1 on vehicles. That's what Kimble County did, and did real 2 well, and the rough estimate we got is 28,000. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it big enough for a 4 garden? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. But I don't know if y'all 6 want to look at that. 7 MS. HARGIS: Some of the other things -- items at 8 the bottom, again, some of these smaller -- smaller items, 9 maybe we can incorporate back in. I mean, we're -- we're 10 basically balanced right now with $1,600 left; that's all 11 I've got. So, there's not -- there's not much room for 12 putting much stuff back. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to give you one, 14 since we branched off into an evaluation of this summary, and 15 that is the dredging of Flat Rock Lake, which we're 16 anticipating will begin in October. I think we need to add 17 50,000 in there for rental of capital equipment, most of 18 which we hope to recover, plus a bunch, but we have to fund 19 it up front. 20 MS. HARGIS: For a grant? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 22 MS. HARGIS: For a grant on Flat Rock? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For a what? 24 MS. HARGIS: For a grant. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For equipment. 8-18-09 bwk 22 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Equipment, yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard? 3 MR. ODOM: Sir? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I ask a question of you, 5 sir? Under your -- this is various heavy equipment. In the 6 past, we have gone under a lot of leases, which are very 7 favorable, and then we paid off the lease and bought the 8 equipment at good rates afterwards. Is this outright 9 purchasing of equipment, or is it more kind of a 10 lease-purchase type? 11 MR. ODOM: I'm getting hard-of-hearing. What are 12 we talking about? 13 MS. HARGIS: On the equipment that you're buying 14 this year. Was that on leases, or did you just buy them 15 outright? 16 MR. ODOM: Buying outright. 17 MS. HARGIS: I think he has -- I think you paid off 18 your last lease this year. 19 MR. ODOM: I believe so. 20 MS. HARGIS: We don't have any more leases in his 21 department either. 22 MR. ODOM: I think when you look at my -- the 23 capital outlays, they went up, but I'm talking about leases; 24 it reduced down about 40-some-odd thousand off the top of 25 my -- 8-18-09 bwk 23 1 MS. HARGIS: Because of what we did with that 208 2 issue, we were able to buy him equipment even further than 3 two years. We looked out maybe five years on that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure we 5 weren't getting any leases and all of a sudden be hit with a 6 buyout in three or four years. 7 MR. ODOM: Now's the time to buy, rather than 8 lease. We're not getting the leases that we used to get. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The old iron's pretty cheap now, 11 isn't it? 12 MR. ODOM: Well, they're stacking up -- that yellow 13 iron is beginning to stack up in some yards right now. 14 Particularly -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've heard that -- maybe you 16 told me, or maybe somebody else, that a lot of new E.P.A. 17 regulations are causing the price of heavy equipment to 18 really escalate. 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're trying to buy -- slip in 21 and buy some of this stuff before those new mandates come in 22 place? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, those Tier 1 through Tier 4 24 engines are going to -- they're running the cost up, and what 25 they're doing now is, we're starting to produce them and 8-18-09 bwk 24 1 they're figuring it into a recovery. And those prices have 2 just -- some of them are really shocking. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I heard. Really, 4 really jumped in prices. 5 MR. ODOM: Hasn't ended it yet. You just wait 6 until these EPA rules really start. Gasoline, everything's 7 really going to go out of sight. 8 MS. HARGIS: We were looking at the capital list. 9 We wanted to have a capital list that would take us for two 10 years and get us out of having things pop up again next year, 11 thinking that 2011 will be possibly -- and if you read the 12 paper, most everyone's saying it's going to be a worse year 13 than this year. So, trying to take the crystal ball and 14 decide, you know, we're buying things outright, getting rid 15 of leases, and incorporating it all in this one issue. And 16 the reason I left a little bit of play like I left the 150 in 17 there in case there is something, because once we go to the 18 market, we're done. We really can't go back. So, since it's 19 a two-year issue, there's a lot of variants out there. Keep 20 in mind, this is a -- a preliminary list. We don't have to 21 stick with this list. There's certain things, of course, we 22 will -- it's what we want. But there are other things that 23 are -- that are preliminary. But it at least gives you some 24 -- some leeway for the future. That's my only thing. And 25 the money is cheaper now than it will be in a year. And once 8-18-09 bwk 25 1 we do this one, because it's very large, you know, we need to 2 make it last. 3 MR. ODOM: And he -- probably the Sheriff needs to 4 buy the cars now, before things really -- I'm not -- I'm not 5 on his -- he didn't pay me. But I'm just -- I'm just telling 6 you that the vehicles are going to get out of sight. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe he can get some cash 9 for his clunkers. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I thought about that. 11 MS. HARGIS: We thought about that. We did. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Not available to government, I 13 understand, though. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. One thing about it, 15 though, if we do take out the 150 for the Rape Prevention 16 Act, and then if we do get the grant for all the radios, 17 that's 300,000 coming out of that, but you'll have to borrow 18 the money first, you know. But it's 300,000 that we -- 19 MS. HARGIS: But there could be something next year 20 that we don't -- can't anticipate. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Something may break. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I mean, we -- you know -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple questions. 24 The building for the Adult Probation and Sheriff, -- 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 8-18-09 bwk 26 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the 1.5, that's a little 2 higher than what we had talked about in the beginning. Is 3 that turnkey? Is that tables and chairs and curtains and -- 4 MS. HARGIS: Peter Lewis tells me that he -- first 5 he called me and said 120. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who told you? 7 MS. HARGIS: Peter Lewis, who temporarily has drawn 8 this. I worked with him on Friday, because the Judge was at 9 a seminar, and I was trying to work with the financial 10 adviser, and I needed as good a number as we could get. He 11 first started at 125, and I like to died, and so he called 12 some of the contractors, and they said a hundred -- 112 a 13 foot was a pretty strong number. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This does not -- does not -- 15 this is not a turnkey number? 16 MS. HARGIS: This does not have furniture in it. 17 It -- well, it has a little bit of extra. I mean, there's 18 about 75,000 extra in there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. You don't have 20 to go further. Now, the other question is, the one right 21 above that, the safety committee that kind of stumbled around 22 in here the other day, we've put 15,000 in there. Where did 23 that number come from? 24 MS. HARGIS: They originally asked for 25, and I 25 brought it down to 15. They're supposedly coming back to 8-18-09 bwk 27 1 narrow that down and give us a list of the actual absolute 2 needed things that they have. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that number could go up 4 or -- 5 MS. HARGIS: Could go up, could go down. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. As long as we 7 understand that we're just pulling -- you know, as long as I 8 understand that we're just pulling numbers out of the air and 9 they can be adjusted later on, that's good. 10 MS. HARGIS: Remember, we're not -- that's the nice 11 thing about this issue, is that we're not tied down to 12 specific things. We're -- this is a kind of an estimate 13 based on different categories. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have any idea what it 15 would -- I'm back on the building, Probation and Sheriff's 16 building -- what it would cost? Does anybody -- do y'all 17 have a clue about -- including furniture? I mean, are we 18 going to get the prison people to build furniture, or what -- 19 what's the deal? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would -- personally, I'd 21 recommend trying to look at T.D.C. on building furniture, 22 because that's normally a whole lot cheaper. It's not quite 23 as comfortable, but it sure holds up well. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why aren't we addressing 25 turnkey now? I mean, I don't get it. Why -- 8-18-09 bwk 28 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, I would assume the Adult 2 Probation already has their -- their own desks and chairs and 3 stuff. Why would we want to -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this include doors? I 5 mean, I don't know what -- 6 MS. HARGIS: No, it -- that's everything except 7 furniture, yes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this it right here? 9 Does -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This number keeps going up; 11 it's about 50 percent higher than the last time I looked at 12 it. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it is. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It doesn't include 15 furnishings? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't include new 17 furnishings. 18 MS. HARGIS: Doesn't include new furniture. But 19 the Adult Probation, when I came here, just bought brand new 20 furniture for their offices, so I would assume that this 21 would be sufficient to carry over. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they would be -- their 23 end would be turnkey. 24 MS. HARGIS: Right. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We already have a lot of 8-18-09 bwk 29 1 furniture, too. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have to furnish it 3 for Adult Probation; they have to take care of themselves. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of our furniture would 5 get moved over already anyhow. It's kind of the same as 6 Adult Probation; we're just moving it in. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the answer to my 8 question about it being turnkey is, it -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be pretty close. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- it's ready to function, 11 move into and function with this. That's cool. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How big's the building, 12,000? 13 MS. HARGIS: 12,000 square feet is what he told me. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12,000 square feet. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the current number that we're 16 working on. And there's -- that plan is being reviewed and 17 refined, and could very well come out to be smaller than 18 that, too, with some efficiencies created by professional 19 help. Mr. Lewis is working on -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that throwing the Sheriff 21 out of it? Or -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leaving him out. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one possibility, always. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make him stay away from the 25 drawing board, at least. 8-18-09 bwk 30 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't even touched that 2 drawing board, Commissioner. My chief -- I have my chief 3 touching that drawing board. I didn't touch it. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's been quiet. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonder how long that will 8 last. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably not long. 10 MS. HARGIS: The only -- the only thing that both 11 Bob and I agree on is that, because of the volatile market, 12 we don't -- we can't really wait too long, and we're 13 suggesting that we be ready to go to the market by -- you 14 know, get it ready to go by -- and sell by the 1st of 15 October, close thereafter. Because the market is -- is 16 really strained, and we need to catch the good interest 17 rates. Some of these things, like if we're going to build 18 the building, we know it's going to take eight months. By 19 the time October gets around, we're down to six months. Even 20 if it's smaller, it's still going to take, as we all know, at 21 least six months to put it on the ground. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not under any time 23 constraints for use of the funds? 24 MS. HARGIS: No. We just -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once -- once it's funded, 8-18-09 bwk 31 1 right? 2 MS. HARGIS: You have five years under the 3 arbitrage. We don't go under arbitrage here, because we're 4 not at five million, so -- five million is arbitrage. So, as 5 long as we spend it within five years, and we don't accrue 6 interest greater than what we get the note for, we'll be 7 fine. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you can shift things 9 around as needed? 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depending on 12 circumstances -- current circumstances. 13 MS. HARGIS: As you may very well know, we still 14 have probably half of the money left from the first issue 15 that we did two years ago. We're still waiting on the 16 completion of that. But the arbitrage laws do come into 17 effect, and they do say -- they say three years, but if you 18 have a reason to go two more, so generally speaking, I.R.S. 19 will let you go five years. And -- and we'll have to do a 20 little letter showing I.R.S. we don't owe arbitrage, and 21 hopefully when they do the issue, they'll write a letter 22 saying that we don't owe it, but we have to be careful of 23 that. That's a real -- it's something that we didn't worry 24 about years ago, but it's -- it's looming out there. The 25 City has several issues that are arbitrage issues. 8-18-09 bwk 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you repeat your 2 sentence about half the money that we did -- 3 MS. HARGIS: We have about eight -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- year before last is still 5 out there? 6 MS. HARGIS: We have about 800,000 remaining. Some 7 of those funds are earmarked; we just haven't gotten around 8 to it, that being -- the Ag Extension Services is almost 9 half. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the windows, that's 11 part of that. 12 MS. HARGIS: And the windows, which are on their 13 way. So, a lot of the projects will be done. We also have 14 some more teleconferencing equipment that we're waiting on 15 right now. That's around 25,000. So, we have things out 16 there. We -- we're just waiting on them to get -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is the new phone 18 system in all of this mix? 19 MS. HARGIS: We hope it's in that 800 -- that 20 800,000. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the current -- in the 22 currently funded one? 23 MS. HARGIS: The currently funded one. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: Because of the grounds coming in so 8-18-09 bwk 33 1 much less than we anticipated, and the sprinkler system and 2 all of that, the windows are also coming in at less than we 3 budgeted, on the temporary bid that we've gotten from one 4 local phone company, we've got -- we have enough money to be 5 able to fund the phone system, and we definitely need that. 6 We are out of phone lines in this building. We are sharing 7 and giving away as we can. So, that's an option I'd really 8 like for us to look at in this next year, once we get the 9 windows in and we know that that's a firm cost. Even though 10 they bid them, you know, there's always change orders. 11 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 12 MS. HARGIS: I actually have one that shows a 13 larger issue, and it goes up about -- but, again, we need to 14 push the jail bond issue out. It goes up about a half a 15 cent. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our jail population, to be 17 straightforward, has been what it was 15 years ago. So, if 18 that stays, you know, and you can count on that, that would 19 be really nice. We could push that jail bond issue out a 20 long ways. And I ran some statistics the other day, wanting 21 to make sure it's because of the direct file and the fast 22 track issue. There have been 370-some-odd more arrests this 23 year than there was last year, and our population has dropped 24 by 63, so that tells me it is because of the fast-tracking. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Number of indictments increasing 8-18-09 bwk 34 1 proportionately also? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't looked at the 3 indictments. I looked at bookings into the jail. The number 4 of people actually coming in has increased over 370 people 5 this year alone, and that's one of the biggest increases 6 we've had in the last four years. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, in looking at the fast-track 8 aspect of it, indictments may not be a true indicator, 9 because a lot of those cases are waiving indictments. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of the advantages of 12 fast-track. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. So, it has really been 14 -- you know, that's what I really wanted to make sure of, is 15 that we weren't also down in arrests that would account for 16 the -- for the down in inmate population, but we're way up in 17 arrests. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you currently have any Gillespie 19 County prisoners? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have -- as of a little while 21 ago, when I ran the report, we have six right now. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Six? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They are slowly bringing some 24 over. I don't think they want to -- to burn bridges with 25 Comanche too quick. But at this point, just since we -- we 8-18-09 bwk 35 1 have those, it's been right at $1,200 that Gillespie owes us 2 at this -- today, okay? So -- but that is a -- a -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And they're handling all transport? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're handling everything. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, we had -- through the 6 years, we've had contracts with numerous counties. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I still do. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those still intact? 9 Or -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Technically, they are. Most 11 of those contracts were originally written right after the 12 jail opened, and then I rewrote them in 2000 after I took 13 office, and that's when we started housing most of them. But 14 there's been a lot of language, as we found out when we -- 15 when we updated the one with Gillespie County, that needs to 16 be changed. But, yeah, there are still contracts with -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- Junction, Mason, Menard. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uvalde. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uvalde. I'd have to look and 21 see. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whoever. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would say yes, and they're 24 all under the $37 a day at this point. That's what they 25 were. 8-18-09 bwk 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, you know, we had put 3 Fredericksburg at 30 inmates, is what we told them, so I hate 4 to -- to go with much more than that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: On your other budgets, your jail and 6 courthouse security, -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- all those have been squeezed out 9 and thrashed out pretty much with the Auditor, -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from my understanding. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing that could 13 change, and it's just -- I hope to get that R.F.P. out next 14 week. I think the one place where we could save some money 15 also in that jail is going to be inmate meals. It may not 16 be, you know, $10,000 or $20,000, depending on that R.F.P., 17 but that number could go down. Definitely wouldn't go up, 18 because we also, you know, get some of that back. But I 19 think that -- that that could help us. But other than that, 20 I think the budget really came in pretty slim, if you look at 21 it. I don't think we did anything. And the one thing I 22 would like to -- from what I understand, Judge -- you may 23 know more -- I know that the City did do a 2 percent COLA for 24 their employees. And if I cut -- moving that over to 25 capital, and that's 150,000 out, that's pretty close. And 8-18-09 bwk 37 1 she said it was about 200? About 200, so if we came up with 2 another 50,000, that may be able to come up with a 2 percent 3 for the employees when y'all get to that point. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How's your medical expense 5 with that contract? Is it holding about steady? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, it's been -- we haven't 7 spent any of our revenues at -- you know, the extra we put in 8 for any of that. In fact, it's been way down. We -- a lot 9 of it is unforeseen savings in that, such as prescriptions. 10 Prescriptions, at one point, were running 6,000 a month, 11 okay? The first five months of this year, they ran 6,000. 12 That makes a major difference in employees being able to do 13 their job, and the nursing staff are passing out meds and all 14 that kind of stuff when you can cut that prescription bill 15 down that much. Now -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How is it cut -- I mean, how 17 was it cut back so much? 'Cause the -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because they have protocol, 19 and they get it in large quantities, and their doctor has to 20 follow their protocol. And they have a medical director, 21 just like Sid Peterson, and it's watched. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're not handing out as 23 many? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're not handing out near 25 the meds. 8-18-09 bwk 38 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the point. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it has been a blessing for 3 the whole jail. I mean, it -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How will you handle medical 5 for prisoners you take in, for example, from Gillespie? Is 6 that charged back to them? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, all their medical will be 8 charged back to them. We're working with C.H.M. right now on 9 whether they want to keep it separate and bill Gillespie 10 themselves, which is in our housing contract that this could 11 be done, or whether we will keep it and send them a bill 12 along with the regular billing. We went to C.H.M., our 13 medical supplier, and I'm just waiting on an answer on how 14 they want to do that. But it is being kept separate, and 15 they will pay for medical, reimburse the county. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other issues with any other 18 budgets? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Only thing you'll see 20 that did go up is the overtime. I think if you look at that, 21 that's because of the holiday pay. We're trying to take care 22 of all that so we don't fight that, but that's -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question on the 24 Sheriff's Department part of it. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 8-18-09 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just tell me what -- the 2 bonds and insurance, I see, is zeroed out. Why is that? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because bonds and insurance 4 are normally my bond at election time. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're the only person 8 that's bonded? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think some of the other ones 10 may be over there, but it doesn't -- it comes out of a 11 different -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not in this cycle? Comes -- 13 comes out of a different deal or is a different cycle. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably on the cycle with the 15 Sheriff. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It probably is. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought you weren't going to 18 run again. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sorry, you're not going to be 20 that lucky. I do plan on doing it at least once, maybe 21 twice. I heard some grumbling back there. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a promise or a threat? 23 (Laughter.) 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Must have been my chief 25 grumbling. 8-18-09 bwk 40 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If we don't have any more 2 with you, we'll move on to Crime Victims. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you want the -- in fact, 4 I'll give it to you. The 20,875 is just a rough estimate bid 5 on that impound yard, if you wanted to try and add that in. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Does Ms. Hargis have a copy of that? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, she does not. This is the 8 only copy I have at this time. If you wanted to add that in. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's probably a pretty 10 good idea with the Sheriff, and I also -- is this an impound 11 yard, or is it fencing part of the back part of the property? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it's an impound yard 13 around -- enlarging all that around the -- where that barn is 14 back there. It kind of goes straight back behind it to -- 15 pretty close to the property line, and then straight up 16 Schreiner College property line. It's as close as you can 17 get it, a little bit off the lines, 'cause that is that 18 ditch. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What liability could we open 20 ourselves up to? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, Clay's researching that 22 at this time on what all it's going to take on the impound 23 yard part. Like -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hailstorms and things. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a good issue that we 8-18-09 bwk 41 1 have to look at. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Needs to be looked at. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. BARTON: The fence will not quite track the 6 property line because of the way the water drains through 7 that back area, so we have to kind of sit on it. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And this is actually just an 9 estimate. The fence design would be different once we get to 10 it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10-438. 13 MS. LAVENDER: Good afternoon. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Crime Victims. How are you, 15 Ms. Lavender? 16 MS. LAVENDER: I'm good. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Virtually -- virtually all of yours 18 is -- is paid for through a grant. 19 MS. LAVENDER: Correct. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We do match somewhat through 21 insurance and some other minor issues, and then we pay a 22 5 percent as a supervisory -- 23 MS. LAVENDER: Right. What we decided -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- or what? 25 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah. Ms. Hargis and I decided 8-18-09 bwk 42 1 that -- you know, I spend quite a bit of time on the 2 community plan, and also on the newspaper writing that we've 3 been doing as a contract labor thing. We reduced that amount 4 and rolled it over into this match. And so, actually, that 5 match will cover the newspaper, the time I spend on the 6 community plan, and indigent health care. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But it will also qualify as a match? 8 MS. LAVENDER: It will also qualify as part of the 9 match, yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's the way it -- 11 was it reviewed? 12 MS. LAVENDER: Well, I haven't talked to him about 13 that part of it, but I'm sure it'll be fine, yeah. And I 14 don't think we'll have a problem, because the insurance is 15 almost the match by itself, so it's just an additional thing. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have any issues with anything 19 else that's in there? I know we had to adjust one because -- 20 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We were going to adjust that. 22 MS. LAVENDER: Now, if you get down to a 23 belt-tightening thing, this 438-426, local mileage, you can 24 probably have that back too. 'Cause, actually, I only make 25 like two trips to AACOG, and I can probably handle that. And 8-18-09 bwk 43 1 that's -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MS. LAVENDER: You can have that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. LAVENDER: If you need it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We always need it. 7 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll take it. 9 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. You can have that 150 back. 10 It's not much, but -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every little bit helps. 12 MS. LAVENDER: Every little bit helps. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You got that? Okay. Anything else? 14 MS. LAVENDER: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Let's go to 16 Indigent Health Care. Gosh, if there's a bright spot -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's hope that's it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 19 MS. LAVENDER: This is the bright spot. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What number is that? 21 MS. LAVENDER: It' 50 -- Fund 50. You need to 22 switch funds. 50. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 50-641. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 50-641. 8-18-09 bwk 44 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Fund 50. 2 MS. LAVENDER: As you can see, there's a 3 considerable reduction in this year's budget from -- or next 4 year's budget from this year. I just need to remind you that 5 state law requires that we pay up to 8 percent of our total 6 tax revenue, and this is considerably less than that 7 8 percent. In the budget, there's two areas that I'm a 8 little bit uneasy about, but I think as long as we all 9 understand that if we go over, nobody's going to be mad, and 10 everybody's going to say, "Oh, yeah, yeah," when we have to 11 add a little money to it. One is in the prescription drugs, 12 because you -- our projected year-end this year is 61,000, 13 and we've only put 36,000 in the budget. And I didn't do 14 this; the Judge did it, so I'm not real sure why we dropped 15 it that much. I'm a little concerned about that. Even 16 though our new prescription plan, I think, is saving us some 17 money, I'm not sure we have enough data yet to drop it that 18 far. And the other one is the hospital outpatient, which is 19 the emergency room costs, and we've dropped it. The actual 20 projected year-to-date is 199, and we dropped it to 180. And 21 I'm -- I'm not -- not saying that we need to add to it. I 22 just need to be sure that you all are cognizant that if we go 23 over in either one of those, that we're going to have to come 24 back to you and ask you to put some more money over into 25 those two line items for next year. The rest of it is good. 8-18-09 bwk 45 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do you see us 3 finishing the year this year? 4 MS. LAVENDER: Now, I haven't looked at the -- see, 5 our budget year actually ends September 1st. I think we're 6 still going to be under -- or right at 600,000, which is less 7 than 50 percent of what we were last year. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We're talking about all costs there, 9 administrative fees -- 10 MS. LAVENDER: All costs, right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Everything. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everything. 13 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah. And the Sheriff's discussion 14 about the jail costs have a pretty big impact on this budget 15 too, bringing some of those jail medical costs back in line 16 where they should be. I think he needs some credit for 17 having gone out and found that company to contract with, 18 'cause that's made a pretty big difference too this year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hate to do it too high. I 20 mean, I don't -- are you happy with it? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I was obviously looking at some 22 historical data when I set the prescription drugs. I do know 23 that Dawn has -- she continues to try and eliminate people, 24 eligibility of folks, but she's giving them good 25 alternatives. A lot of those people she's rolling onto 8-18-09 bwk 46 1 disability rolls of Social Security, in which case we're 2 getting some revenue items to offset that. 3 MS. LAVENDER: And we're getting a lot of money 4 back; we've gotten a lot of money back this year from people 5 that -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not reflected in what you're 7 seeing here. But it's not that she's had a good year, and 8 this is the end of it. She continues to -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- slowly chip away at this thing, 11 and -- and manages to be successful on a very frequent, 12 regular basis. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What contributes to -- 14 Mr. Trolinger maybe can answer this. What contributes to the 15 cost of software maintenance for our Indigent Health Care? 16 MS. LAVENDER: It's our software program that we 17 have to log into in our computer. And it's a set program 18 that's -- we have to have it to be able to do the program. 19 It's a -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: It's a hosted service, and it's an 21 annual cost. They host it. They provide all the 22 infrastructure, and we pay them for that annually. 23 MS. HARGIS: They keep all of the drug costs and 24 everything there and flag it, and when we put something in, 25 if it's wrong, it flags it. I mean, it tells us how much 8-18-09 bwk 47 1 we're going to pay. It's -- I would refer to it as kind of 2 like doing Blue Cross/Blue Shield. You put in the number and 3 then we pay "X." So -- and they keep that updated with our 4 contract. We don't have to worry about that. And so it -- 5 it's -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a valuable tool. 7 MS. HARGIS: Essentially, I guess -- 8 MS. LAVENDER: We couldn't do without it. It 9 wouldn't be -- 10 MS. HARGIS: And they provide training, as well, 11 two or three times a year to our people. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 13 MS. HARGIS: That's used by my office and her 14 office. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lavender, the 36,000 on 16 prescription drugs, is that realistic, or do we need to make 17 some adjustments? 18 MS. LAVENDER: I'd like to see us adjust it up to 19 45, since we -- year-to-date right now, we've done 42,301. I 20 really think we need to at least get it close to where we 21 are, 40 to 45, somewhere along in there. I don't think 22 there's a problem with the hospital outpatient; I think, you 23 know, that one's close enough, but I'd really like to see us 24 add a little bit to the drug. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And your year-to-date now is what? 8-18-09 bwk 48 1 MS. LAVENDER: The year-to-date is 42,301. And 2 that was as of August 31st, so we haven't, you know, got this 3 month yet. But we considerably reduced our drug prescription 4 costs with these $4 -- whatever they are, prescriptions, 5 and -- and having people go to one provider that's got the 6 good drug plan. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What portion of this past -- of your 8 past fiscal year was that -- 9 MS. LAVENDER: In place? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that plan in place that we 11 adopted? 12 MS. LAVENDER: February 1st. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, there were -- 14 MS. LAVENDER: February, March, April, May, June, 15 July. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Four, five. 17 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah, six months. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 MS. LAVENDER: August. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we actually -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Five -- you got five months, then, 22 that we were under the old plan. 23 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That might be enough savings 25 built in right there. 8-18-09 bwk 49 1 MS. LAVENDER: May be enough. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 MS. LAVENDER: Well, let's leave it like it is, 4 just with the understanding that if we get -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I know if we add 9,000, Ms. Hargis 6 is going to go wringing her hands. She said she had, what, 7 6,000 to play with? Or -- 8 MS. HARGIS: 1,600. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,600. 10 MS. LAVENDER: Let's just leave it alone, then, and 11 hopefully we'll be fine. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to let you sleep 13 tonight, Ms. Hargis. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's got 1,750; Rosa gave back 15 150. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. You can sleep real good 17 tonight. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's just made the whole 19 thing work. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 21 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, D.P.S. Corporal Olive, how 23 are you this fine day? 24 CORPORAL OLIVE: I'm fine. How are you? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think okay. 8-18-09 bwk 50 1 CORPORAL OLIVE: It's air-conditioned in here; it's 2 good. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 10-580. I don't think we have many 4 issues there, do we, Ms. Hargis? 5 MS. HARGIS: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to let you get a new 7 flashlight next year. 8 CORPORAL OLIVE: Appreciate that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: With batteries. 10 CORPORAL OLIVE: We actually -- on the 580-485, 11 we've got travel-conference, and we had $500 in there last 12 year. We'd like to just -- we want to give that back. We 13 don't -- don't anticipate needing it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll take it. 15 CORPORAL OLIVE: If we could just kind of keep 16 status-quo, we're perfectly happy. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You've come with the right attitude. 18 You're welcome back any time. (Laughter.) Anything else? 19 CORPORAL OLIVE: No, sir. What can we do for 20 y'all? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How can you tear the cable 22 down? 23 CORPORAL OLIVE: I've sent several cars out there, 24 and haven't -- every time we tear it down, they put it back 25 up. But -- 8-18-09 bwk 51 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't they leave it down? 2 CORPORAL OLIVE: Yeah. Well, I can tell you, 3 they're fixing to start in Kimble County; it's going to be a 4 statewide deal. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to do Kimble 6 County too? 7 CORPORAL OLIVE: All the interstates in the state. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is crazy. 9 CORPORAL OLIVE: Well, you know, there's some 10 places out there where you have these small medians, and they 11 are problems. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 CORPORAL OLIVE: The argument I had was that I'm -- 14 I'm now in my 15th year here in Kerr County, and we've yet to 15 have an incidental crossover resulting in a fatality. And 16 that's what they're trying to shut gown, because we got such 17 wide medians. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 19 CORPORAL OLIVE: Our crashes have increased, 20 because what before was not a crash, somebody slid to a stop, 21 now is a crash. Which all of our insurance rates are going 22 to go up, because they base that on number of crashes in the 23 county. It's -- you know, yeah, I agree, if it saves a life, 24 okay, but the problem was, we haven't had that problem. 25 Y'all don't have armed security in here all the time, and 8-18-09 bwk 52 1 you've yet to have somebody with a gun come in and shoot the 2 place up. It could happen, but, you know, let's be 3 realistic. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was -- on that note, I went 5 to Dallas this past weekend; they've got it along the road, 6 but part of that, it's right on the shoulder on one side. I 7 mean, to me, it's really dangerous. I mean, it's bad enough 8 having it down the middle, but this is -- it's right on the 9 shoulder. 10 CORPORAL OLIVE: That was one of the first ones 11 that they came up with, and they weren't thinking about it. 12 I mean, they did at least put some thought in ours; they 13 don't have them right there on the shoulder where they bounce 14 them back into the road. The mowing, the labor increased 15 greatly on -- on what they're having to now pay the 16 employees, because they're having to go along with -- you 17 know, some of them didn't have mow strips. If there's a mow 18 strip, they can do it with just a tractor. Some of them are 19 out there with a weedeater. It just shot it through the 20 roof. It wasn't a well-thought-out idea. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the turnaround 22 interval where you can turn around? 23 CORPORAL OLIVE: It depends. The longest one we've 24 got is two and a half miles. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said it was three. 8-18-09 bwk 53 1 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, you said it was three. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our resident speeder back there 3 said it was three. (Laughter.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: She's got a timer on her -- on her 5 cruise control, and it automatically cuts off, you know, 6 every so often so that her speed drops. Incidentally, her 7 license number, if you'd like to have it... 8 CORPORAL OLIVE: Yes, sir, go ahead. (Laughter.) 9 We did get them to increase the width in between the bridges 10 where we can turn around. It wasn't so much for us, but just 11 emergency vehicles; try to get a fire truck through there so 12 we can get the jaws of life on each side, or an ambulance, 13 but it has created some big headaches. So, we deal with the 14 cards we're dealt. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And our revenues are down 16 too. 17 CORPORAL OLIVE: No doubt. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're not able to give as 19 many tickets. 20 CORPORAL OLIVE: No doubt. Part -- part of that 21 for this year is, we've been -- we've been a man short, 22 because we've had one that's been displaced. We'll get him 23 back and that will help some, but a lot of it is that. I 24 mean, you know, I can see one and I -- I can tell you what 25 the driver looks like. I can almost read the license plate, 8-18-09 bwk 54 1 but the chance of me turning around and catching them are -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Slim and none. 3 CORPORAL OLIVE: Yeah. And a lot of them know it. 4 A lot of them know it. Yeah, I've had some of them wave at 5 me. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wave at you and speed up. 7 CORPORAL OLIVE: Yeah, and not use all their 8 fingers. (Laughter.) But we appreciate what y'all do for 9 us, and if there's anything we can do, just let us know. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, corporal. We appreciate 11 it. Okay, Road and Bridge? 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We've hashed and thrashed yours 14 pretty good, too. 15 MR. ODOM: I'm ready. Any questions? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You always are. 17 MR. ODOM: May I say -- interject something here? 18 I was looking at what y'all gave me, was a 125,000 increase, 19 and if you look at that, that's a 4 percent increase over 20 last year. However, 83,000 of that is insurance, and the 21 rest of it has to do with petroleum prices, auto, all 22 operating supplies, tires. All that is reflected, and that's 23 a 1 percent increase, is what I actually figured. The other 24 83,000 is group insurance and vehicle insurance, I have no 25 control over. 8-18-09 bwk 55 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard, since the first year you 2 and I went over your budget very, very much in detail, I've 3 never had a problem with your budget. Now, exactly why your 4 numbers are what they are -- 5 MR. ODOM: I know why they're there, and my capital 6 outlays are up this year over last year; however, I'm 7 trying -- I'm asking the Court to let me get it now. It's 8 pay now or we're going to pay later, and it's going to be a 9 whole lot more. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What do you see fuel prices going 11 to? 12 MR. ODOM: Fuel prices within the -- well, they're 13 going up, and I'm going to guess that we're somewhere in the 14 neighborhood of 50 and 25 cents increase in the next year, 15 just in diesel. Right now, gasoline -- it flip-flopped, and 16 diesel's down below. And I see diesel going back up again, 17 and probably over the next three to five years, with this low 18 sulfur, I think fuel consumption's going to be worse, or 19 mileage is going to be worse, so it'll be up. And I think 20 they're going to reflect that in the price of petroleum 21 products. If they can't sell it or they cut back for clean 22 air, they're going to pass the cost on, and that's what 23 they're doing right now. They're starting this right now. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Has this new lower sulfur diesel 25 created any maintenance problems with you because of the -- 8-18-09 bwk 56 1 MR. ODOM: I've had several. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- lower amount of lubricant? 3 MR. ODOM: We have the octane boosters that we're 4 putting in, but I'm beginning to have problems with some 5 fairly new vehicles. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Seals? 7 MR. ODOM: Well, we don't know exactly what it is. 8 It's just losing compression and -- and power. I had two of 9 them. And -- and some of them are under warranty, and they 10 still can't figure out what the problem is. So, I -- I 11 don't -- I just see the older stuff is going to run, and we 12 just have to put the additive to it. We take that additive 13 and we put it in our tanks when we start to fill them up, so 14 it's automatically put into it as they dispense the fuel, 15 whether it's diesel or gasoline. Try to keep it up, the 16 octane, so we can get our -- our horsepower out of it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, in your budget, 21 you show 308,700-some-odd for capital -- capital equipment, 22 and in the notes you list what that is. That is separate and 23 apart from what Ms. Hargis has prepared for capital projects 24 on the side? Or is there some duplication here? 25 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm not quite sure what Ms. Hargis 8-18-09 bwk 57 1 had. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to be sure 3 there's not duplication. 4 MR. ODOM: This is mine right here. That's my 5 capital outlays for 308,000. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, in the 7 notes -- in your notes on 308, okay, you talk about a -- a 8 250-gallon oil tank, pneumatic post driver, maintainer -- 9 MS. HOFFER: That's last year's. 10 MR. ODOM: That's last year's. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's last year's? Why 12 would it be in -- 13 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry, I don't know. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That takes care of 15 that question. 16 MR. ODOM: Everything that I have is $308,784. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then -- then the 18 question is, then your capital outlay for the ensuing year is 19 going to be over a half million dollars; is that correct? 20 MR. ODOM: No, 308,000. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then what have I got? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 227 in the capital outlay 23 program here. 24 MS. HARGIS: That, I think, needs to come out of 25 there. 8-18-09 bwk 58 1 MS. HOFFER: 227,000 was last year's capital 2 outlay. 3 MR. ODOM: Yeah, sounds like it. 4 MS. HOFFER: Our current budget year right now -- 5 MR. ODOM: Yeah, that should be this year's. 6 MS. HOFFER: -- was 227. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a major swing. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is a major swing. 9 MS. HARGIS: I'll fix that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe you won't get any sleep 11 tonight, Ms. Hargis. 12 MS. HARGIS: Well, that took it out of the big -- 13 MR. ODOM: I'll be more than happy to substitute 14 those trucks, go back and get more trucks. But the only 15 thing that I have for capital outlay is -- on this budget is 16 $308,000 and some-odd cents -- 784. This 227, I don't see 17 that reflected. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just various heavy equipment 19 for Road and Bridge. 20 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, that's the wrong number. That 21 is the wrong number. 22 MR. ODOM: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That comes out of the bond 24 issue? 25 MS. HARGIS: That -- that needs to go into -- I 8-18-09 bwk 59 1 mean, the difference, it needs to go into the issue, and then 2 probably the difference between the 337, because the pole 3 barn is his as well. We just picked up the wrong number. I 4 can't -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Need to add 80,000 there, don't we? 6 MS. HARGIS: No. That's just going to make his 7 budget better, 'cause he stands alone. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What I'm getting at is, 9 we're really over -- we're overcapitalizing here. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, his budget -- 11 MS. HARGIS: His budget will go down. His budget 12 will go down by 308. I thought we removed them all, but 13 apparently we missed one. 14 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The option would be to let his 17 budget carry his own capital, since he's on a different tax 18 structure. Ms. Hargis? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The option would be to have Road and 21 Bridge capital -- 22 MS. HARGIS: Stay in there? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- stay under Road and Bridge 24 budget, because that comes with a different tax structure. 25 That may be -- I'm not suggesting that that's absolutely what 8-18-09 bwk 60 1 we need to do. That's one option we have for having a 2 versatile position here. 3 MS. HARGIS: I need to look at his bottom line 4 before I say yes or no to that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I understand that. 6 MS. HARGIS: He's in a better position than we are 7 in the general fund, just because of the collections of 8 the -- the criminal fines are going towards him, because 9 that's the way that they're structured. The -- also, the -- 10 there was more tax collected than I budgeted in his line 11 items, so he is -- his fund balance is stronger, and it will 12 be stronger than ours. But I just need to check it, 'cause 13 he needs a fund balance of around a half a million to 14 600,000. I want to maintain that. So, let me check that and 15 then I'll bring that back. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard? Do you have the -- in 17 the contract services item, I guess, where you have it, the 18 right-of-way acquisition at Hermann Sons? 19 MR. ODOM: Well, that is one thing that I had in 20 mind. I wasn't quite sure what we had, but up front, that is 21 one thing I had thought we would -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, considering 23 that's a TexDOT project, that's pretty much a go, from what I 24 understand, with the kickoff sometime -- 25 MR. ODOM: Sometime September or October, maybe. 8-18-09 bwk 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it will be a bit 2 later than that. I think it's going to be done. I think 3 it's funded sometime in their next budget year. I'm not 4 sure. Well -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All the left turn lanes? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Left turn lanes from Wilson 7 Creek to the county line. And also, the -- 8 MR. ODOM: Clearing the right-of-way on Lane 9 Valley. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Lane Valley issue is part of 11 that -- some of that. 12 MR. ODOM: Part of that was in there, yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The number looked like it could 14 be -- 45,000? 15 MR. ODOM: 45,000 to rent some equipment. We'd 16 probably do a lot of the work ourselves, maybe have a vendor 17 do it. Sort of depends how much we have to do. Some of 18 those hills, I may want somebody else to -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. ODOM: -- cut that hill. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. You think there's enough 22 there? 23 MR. ODOM: I sort of think there's enough there. 24 It just depends when we get into it, what we... 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 8-18-09 bwk 62 1 MR. ODOM: Now, the only other thing that I don't 2 have is the Schreiner Trust Fund, and the question to me 3 there was, what would I use? But -- and there was two 4 projects. One was Cuthbert, and the other one was Coker Road 5 on the back side there, Buster, to the high water route. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. ODOM: And that was 25,000, 15 and 10 for that. 8 But I'd like -- those are still -- they're not dirt, they're 9 gravel. I don't have any dirt roads any more; I have all 10 gravel, but I was thinking of trying to complete those with 11 Schreiner Trust Fund. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MS. HARGIS: This is -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Refresh my memory. What is 15 the west-end project? 16 MR. ODOM: West-end project is Weatherby, Broken 17 Spur. I have been trying to complete Weatherby from Lower -- 18 Lower Reservation to the county line, and that's been an 19 ongoing process out there. It's been a mile at a click for 20 each budget. I have the last part to do, is what I envision, 21 and then the last mile is in good shape right up to the 22 county line to Kimble County. So, that will be next budget 23 year that I should be able to complete that. Within three 24 budgets, this one and then two more, I envision all that area 25 to be complete, Weatherby all the way to I-10. And -- 8-18-09 bwk 63 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're just lacking, really, 2 1 mile in there? 3 MR. ODOM: One mile on Weatherby, and then that 4 last one past Sherrill's place right there is in good shape. 5 Pull that together next budget year, not this one we're 6 planning. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's still in good shape. 8 MR. ODOM: It's in good shape. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 MS. HARGIS: If you look at what she has up on the 12 screen right now, this is the actual items. He didn't use a 13 note this year. He used the -- the -- what they call the 14 detailed maintenance area. But this is the items, and if you 15 want to click on that yourselves, if you'll go to the capital 16 line item and go to the center column that has the grid and 17 click on that, you can see them. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You lost me. 19 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it. 21 MS. HARGIS: If you click on that right there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This right here? 23 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 25 MS. HARGIS: You can see the detail and you can 8-18-09 bwk 64 1 actually scroll down with the bar there and see the -- 2 everything he has. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. That's -- okay, 4 308. 5 MS. HARGIS: A lot of the people used that this 6 year instead of the notes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to leave this in 9 his budget? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's a possibility. He may 11 be -- he may be able to carry it in his budget because of the 12 structure of his tax allocation. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably can, because of 14 getting rid of all that other stuff. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His leases go way down. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that could -- that could 17 take -- now, it's possible that the 227 could come out of 18 this. That's the number we were needing to make this work. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pretty close, isn't it? Have 21 to remove the things that... 22 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, any other questions for 24 Leonard? Have you got any issues with us? 25 MR. ODOM: No, sir. 8-18-09 bwk 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: About what's in there now? 2 MR. ODOM: No, sir, none whatsoever. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We thank you. 4 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. County Clerk. 7 MS. PIEPER: Mine's very simple, if you have any 8 questions. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you also have -- you've got 10 with Ms. Hargis, and there's been quite a bit of back and 11 forth and resurrecting and so forth. 12 MS. HARGIS: Jannett was kind enough to reduce some 13 of her items for us when I requested that. 14 MS. PIEPER: On the deputy salary line items, even 15 though we are down because we've had a couple of the 16 higher-paid people either retire or resign or get terminated, 17 I do have yet a couple of A.O.P. certifications, increase for 18 certifications for the office. And then we have two that are 19 getting longevity for the year, but that's already figured 20 in. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you say A.O.P.? 22 MS. PIEPER: Acknowledgment of Paternity. It's a 23 state law that anybody that deals with birth certificates and 24 stuff have to be certified by the state. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Because folks come in there 8-18-09 bwk 66 1 and they have the ability to fill out a document and file it 2 in your office acknowledging paternity of children, and it 3 requires some special training and certification. Okay. 4 MS. PIEPER: That is correct. And right now, we 5 have three of them in the office that are certified, and 6 without that, then we can't speak to the person. We have to 7 send them -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We got three of them, so there's no 9 lines, no waiting, huh? 10 MS. PIEPER: Right -- well, right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All those wanting to acknowledge 12 paternity, step right up, huh? (Laughter.) Do you ever have 13 any waiting in line? 14 MS. PIEPER: Not on that subject, we haven't, to my 15 knowledge. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably not. 18 MS. PIEPER: But we do have them -- when they come 19 in, then one of the deputies will take them to a side room, 20 and it usually lasts for a little while, so it kind of puts 21 that deputy out of commission for a short while. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some sort of admonitions 23 that are required to be given and so forth about the severity 24 of what's taking place and the legal effects and all that 25 other good stuff, huh? 8-18-09 bwk 67 1 MS. PIEPER: Mm-hmm. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other issues? 3 MS. PIEPER: Not on that, but on budget -- well, I 4 take it back. The telephone I increased $50 a month because 5 of the way that the auditors are now calculating the bills, 6 the telephone bills. And because I have more phones in my 7 office than most, then my phone bill's a little bit higher 8 than most. So, that's the only increase. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's something you worked out 10 with Ms. Hargis because of how you crunch that number? I 11 remember -- 12 MS. PIEPER: I didn't work it out with her; I just 13 figured it out. That's basically what it is averaging to be, 14 is $50 more a month. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. PIEPER: So, instead of other offices paying 17 it, it's now in my budget. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: What are you showing to be the 19 number? That is the number that's up there now, correct? 20 MS. PIEPER: Scroll up some. Yes, that is correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 22 MS. PIEPER: No. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, do you have any more 24 questions or concerns about her basic budget? 25 MS. HARGIS: No, the Clerk's budget looks good. 8-18-09 bwk 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've got two or three 2 others to look at here. 3 MS. PIEPER: Yes. The Records Management budget, 4 other than just the salaries and group insurance and 5 retirement -- I don't have any control over that -- 6 everything is staying the same as far as the storage and 7 continuing education, and no capital outlay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty much static, then, on that 9 one? 10 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How's your revenue holding 13 up? 14 MS. PIEPER: My revenue's doing good. I -- Cheryl 15 and I crunched numbers last week, and I'm right on track. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like Cheryl may have got into 18 the way of the crunching. 19 MS. PIEPER: No, she crunched it before. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what happens when you 22 go under the knife. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I just thought it was one of those 24 crunches. Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Collections. 8-18-09 bwk 69 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Collections is over in Tax Assessor 2 now. You've got a couple other special funds. 3 MS. PIEPER: I have the 41, the records archival. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 MS. PIEPER: I'm -- I had sent an e-mail out 6 requesting feedback over possibly having eDoc come in and 7 scan more of my documents, and just pay them out over a 8 period of four or five years. And so I'm still actually 9 working on the actual numbers that I need, but for this 10 budget, I put in 80,000. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And you've got adequate funds in 12 that particular dedicated account? 13 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you recall what the balance is? 15 MS. PIEPER: No. This -- this 80,000 -- I don't 16 know what the balance is, but this 80,000 is what I figure 17 it's going to be coming in for the budget year. I don't 18 think -- if I have -- if I have any left, it's not much. 19 MS. HARGIS: What fund are you talking about, 28? 20 MS. PIEPER: 41. 21 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions on that one? 23 Okay. Then there's -- 24 MS. HARGIS: There's 59,535 in there right now. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. You got a pretty good 8-18-09 bwk 70 1 cushion, then. There's one more common account that you have 2 with the District Clerk, I believe, don't you? 3 MS. PIEPER: Right. That's Fund 28, but I'm not 4 requesting any money out of that one. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm glad. Ms. Uecker should 6 be happy to hear that. 7 MS. PIEPER: On this -- the 41 account, though, I 8 will have to do a public notice, so on our next agenda, I do 9 have an item to set the public hearing for the records 10 archival. I sent that to her already, so she's is aware of 11 it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Anything else on her 13 budgets? Wonderful. Thank you, ma'am. 14 MS. HARGIS: Judge, if we can go back to Road and 15 Bridge? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-oh. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You waited till Leonard left; you're 19 going to ambush him now. 20 MS. HARGIS: No. I'm not real comfortable with 21 that. That leaves him with a fund balance of 378,000. 378, 22 and I'd prefer having closer to a half a million. So, even 23 if we don't fund all of it, I think we need to fund part of 24 it, maybe 150,000 of it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's about half of it. Give us -- 8-18-09 bwk 71 1 well, it gives us some options to work with, is what's 2 important at this point. 3 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And let's keep that one open for now 5 as we watch this capital number continue to evolve. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Juvenile Probation. 8 MR. DAVIS: Afternoon, Judge, Commissioners. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hi, Jason. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- that budget has taken a 11 dramatic increase, primarily because of two things. One is 12 that our alternative housing -- or call it detention costs, 13 if you prefer -- has really gone through the roof. And the 14 second is that some of those costs that were previously borne 15 by the State, they have now bailed out on us and have shifted 16 over -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to the County. Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I find that hard to believe. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is really something. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Can't believe it. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If the State doesn't get you, 23 the feds will. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That -- yeah. 25 MR. DAVIS: Well, it's a combination of both, 8-18-09 bwk 72 1 actually, in this case, Commissioner. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We pass them together. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on which one of them 4 gets you the most. 5 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. Only 2 and a half percent 6 from the -- from the State. They only cut us by about 2 and 7 a half percent. We have lost, at a minimum, $100,000 8 annually from the feds that we -- that we were previously 9 claiming. We hoped to recoup some of that, hopefully as much 10 as 20,000. They're saying 20 percent of what we had prior to 11 the loss of the IV-E program, is we can hope for possibly 12 20 percent back, the loss of IV-E that the State cut. So, 13 obviously, the increase in the number of referrals being a 14 significant factor, the Sheriff had mentioned previously that 15 his jail had been a little bit busier. I can tell you that 16 our numbers of referrals, depending on the time frame that 17 I'm looking at, best case scenario is about a 24 percent 18 increase in numbers of referrals. Worst case scenario is 19 probably about a 43 percent increase. Most of this budget is 20 going to include about a 30 percent increase, 30 to 21 36 percent, but 30 really is kind of the number I was looking 22 at when we were projecting out costs for the upcoming fiscal 23 year. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What percentage of the detention 25 costs -- placement costs, if you would -- are preadjudication 8-18-09 bwk 73 1 detention that occur at Kerr County? 2 MR. DAVIS: I can tell you that. Just to give you 3 an example, give you -- answer that two ways. Number one, in 4 my FY 2010 budget allocation sheets that I just sent off to 5 the state, to T.J.P.C., I allocated and attempted to spend 6 all Kerr County funds -- allocate those for Kerr County, and 7 some had not previously been done. And then all state funds 8 that were received for placement, try to use those for actual 9 placement and not for preadjudication, as the Judge 10 indicated. Looking at current fiscal year, which ours begins 11 September 1, our costs for, let's see, residential placement 12 are going to be $333,810. This is going to be from 13 September 1 of '08 to July 31 of '09. During that same time 14 period, our postadjudication placements, meaning after a 15 finding of guilt and then the child is sent off somewhere, 16 that cost is going to be about $215,000. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're talking about 60 percent 18 or a little bit more of those funds go out here? 19 MR. DAVIS: Correct. And the way that I'm trying 20 to structure for 2010 is that the alternative housing costs 21 that is coming from this Court goes to that facility, not to 22 some other facility. It's been -- the idea in the past has 23 been -- at least my idea was, spend all of the state money 24 absolutely first before we touch any county money, and I'm 25 still going to try to do that. But what I don't want to do 8-18-09 bwk 74 1 is get into a situation where we have -- you know, is where 2 the last two months of the fiscal year, we're having to pay 3 all of our costs -- not only having to cover costs for Kerr 4 County Juvenile Facility, but any other outstanding 5 placements we have right now, where we're having to come back 6 before the Court and say, "I've got to pay Hays County. I've 7 got to pay Rockdale. I've got to pay these other 8 out-of-county things with county dollars. I need more money 9 to pay these out-of-county placements." 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, you do you have any 11 questions for -- 12 MS. HARGIS: No, we've been over this. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Mr. Davis? Okay. Anybody on the 14 Court have any questions? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Am I seeing -- ad litem, am 16 I seeing 38 -- 17 MR. DAVIS: No change from current year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no change there? 19 MR. DAVIS: Correct. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 21 MR. DAVIS: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Thank you, sir. 23 MR. DAVIS: Thank you. Thank you, Commissioners. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Environmental Health. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is it? 8-18-09 bwk 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 10-640. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ray, I haven't heard a 3 complaint about your office in a long time. What the hell 4 are y'all doing down there? (Laughter.) 5 MR. GARCIA: We've been staying steadfast, you 6 know, taking care of business. Keeping everybody in line, 7 basically. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all scared. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they see that picture in 10 the paper, they're not going to mess with him. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, one thing that's 12 happened down in that office is the fact that we don't get a 13 lot of phone calls -- I don't -- from constituents. Almost 14 none. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've had zero. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the reason -- reason 17 for that is that every time they send out one of their 18 letters on an enforcement issue or a complaint that 19 somebody's filed, and they've done their homework on, they 20 send a carbon copy to each one of us, whichever one's 21 involved. In my case, I get them all. But, you know, 22 whenever those people get that letter and they see that it 23 didn't just come from that person -- it did, but it also 24 shows that the Commissioner got carbon-copied. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 8-18-09 bwk 76 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that has a lot to do 2 with that issue, why we don't get a lot of calls. Because 3 that takes away their ability to really fuss and argue about, 4 "Well, they're being unfair to me." You know, and they get 5 their findings, and they really do a good job of documenting 6 and checking everything, spend the time. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want -- maybe you know, 8 but I doubt the other three know. There's an experimental 9 system that's going in in a commercial setting in my 10 precinct, and I appreciate the way Ray's working. I don't 11 understand it. As long as it works, that's all I care about. 12 But to get T.C.E.Q. to buy off on something that's kind of an 13 experimental thing, and the way they're working with the 14 property owner -- I guess it's a cheaper system. 15 MR. GARCIA: It's supposed to be. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, -- 17 MR. GARCIA: Save money. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it also shows, you know, 19 that, for one thing, they're knowledgeable. They know what 20 they're talking about, and they're willing to try new things 21 and work with T.C.E.Q. and, you know, new experimental 22 techniques, which I think that word gets out, and that's 23 good. Hopefully, it works. 24 MR. GARCIA: Hopefully that doesn't open Pandora's 25 box in using all these new devices, either. But, you know, 8-18-09 bwk 77 1 we're willing to try it out. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With a lot of stipulations. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The quality of the letters 4 that go out, too, Bruce, -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- is good. I read all 7 those -- all that correspondence that Tish sends out. 8 They're very thorough. Law citations. There really doesn't 9 leave much room for questions. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm-mm, it doesn't. It's -- 11 I think the office is doing better than it ever has since any 12 time we've ever had it, or -- or when U.G.R.A. had it. It's 13 much better. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's more professional. And, 16 you know, Ray is -- and his staff is all being very uniformly 17 fair to everybody. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just wish he'd find 19 something wrong in Precinct 1 and 3. They all seem to be in 20 2 and 4. (Laughter.) 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it just happens that 22 way. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You have a new charge, Ray. You 24 need to go out in 1 and 3. 25 MR. GARCIA: He just had a fuel spill in his -- 8-18-09 bwk 78 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today. 2 MR. GARCIA: -- his precinct. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just had a -- a backed up 4 sewer system, so -- you know. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A backed up sewer system is 7 better than a fuel spill. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, you know, there's -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a backed up sewer 10 system, too, out there at Castlecomb. But, anyway, he's done 11 an outstanding job. We have given him the staff and the 12 tools, though, to make it happen, and -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very appreciative of what 15 they've done. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate their efforts. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any questions about what we 18 got plugged in now, Ray? 19 MR. GARCIA: No, sir. Everything is -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Think you can live with that? 21 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. GARCIA: Looks good. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody on the Court have any 25 questions? Ms. Hargis, you're good with it? 8-18-09 bwk 79 1 MS. HARGIS: No, he's got a good budget. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Appreciate it. 3 MR. GARCIA: Thank y'all. I will pass the kudos on 4 to the staff. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Please do. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. I.T., 408. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 408. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You got all the software 9 maintenance, with maybe a couple of exceptions, plugged into 10 your budget this year? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. Exception -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What are the exceptions? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Indigent Health Care. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: What about Collections? Is that -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: Collections is included. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's over there? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, Court Compliance. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Compliance. And there may be one 20 or two miscellaneous that I haven't picked up on that are in 21 varying budgets, but if it was a computer software line item, 22 it's been combined here. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The software training is 25 training that you're providing or arranging for other 8-18-09 bwk 80 1 departments? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, on-site training by the 3 vendor. We need to get moving on that. We've been three 4 years since implementing the new software systems; Incode, 5 Odyssey, and a couple miscellaneous -- eDoc, and we need some 6 on-site training for the people that weren't here when those 7 systems were put in. The training kind of degenerates over 8 time. We need some on-site training. That's what the 9 majority of that's for. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know that we're dealing 11 with the '10 budget -- '09-'10 budget, talking to the subject 12 of software maintenance. You got a consolidated number. Do 13 you see that number holding reasonably firm going forward, or 14 is going to be an incremental increase -- significant 15 incremental increase? 16 MR. TROLINGER: There will be a little bit of a 17 jump. 2011, we're going to have the expiration of our 18 five-year-long period with Tyler Technologies. And 19 there's -- I believe eDoc Technologies was locked in; I don't 20 remember the number. But Tyler Technologies will jump, and 21 I'm going to negotiate that change. We're not going to have 22 a sudden large increase in one year. There'll be a 23 single-digit percentage change. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Judge, I have two things on the 8-18-09 bwk 81 1 capital outlay, which is not shown here; it's shown in 2 another area. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Capital, sure. 4 MR. TROLINGER: The telephone system was originally 5 in the I.T. capital outlay for $100,000. That, since it will 6 be paid from the previous capital outlay, can be removed. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you saying that the 307 that is 8 on the current capital outlay budget for the coming year, or 9 that we're looking at the debt issue, we can reduce that by 10 100,000 down to 207? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But is your I.T. -- is that 13 purchase for a two-year period or a one-year period? 14 MR. TROLINGER: One. 15 MS. HARGIS: So, if we're going to put in there for 16 two, then we probably need to -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, John, let me ask you this 18 question. (Laughter.) You got -- you got 200. Are we 19 looking at a like amount for the following year? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. Because that's a one-time 21 purchase. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So we need to add 100 to this in 23 order to make it a two-year deal, right? 24 MR. TROLINGER: True. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There went that smile. 8-18-09 bwk 82 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I remember I heard that being 2 said earlier. 3 MR. TROLINGER: The phone system's a one-time 4 capital outlay. It won't carry over to the next year. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. But if your various 6 computer items, then, for a one-year period are a little over 7 200, the following year, if it's going to be pretty much the 8 same, you need another 200. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Correct, to some extent. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we subtract 100 and then add 11 200. 12 MR. TROLINGER: I have one more deduction, that the 13 Sheriff has acquired a -- or the potential of a grant to 14 install automation in the courtrooms. I had budgeted for 15 that at $5,200 per courtroom. Well, I had included four 16 courtrooms, total of about 20,800. We can reduce three -- 17 take three of those courtrooms out of the capital -- I.T. 18 capital outlay as a result of the Sheriff obtaining that 19 funding. 20 MS. HARGIS: So, we only need to go up 80,000. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 22 MS. HARGIS: We only need to go up 80,000. 23 MR. TROLINGER: So, I believe the I.T. capital 24 outlay for the year can be reduced by 115,600 in total. 25 MS. HARGIS: No. The object here, John, is to go 8-18-09 bwk 83 1 two years. 2 MR. TROLINGER: Now, the following year, it will 3 reduce somewhat more, because we have other capital projects 4 that are one-time that will not repeat next year. The Animal 5 Control software. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You are going to reduce by 115 -- 7 how much this year? 8 MR. TROLINGER: 115,600. And looking out two 9 years -- the Auditor asked me to look at that this morning, 10 and I did. And I anticipate that with the desktop 11 replacement program and the other capital items that will not 12 be in next year's budget, that we'll be about status-quo, 13 that I've just got the total amount. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: For the second year? 15 MR. TROLINGER: For the second year. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What's that number? 17 MR. TROLINGER: And it's the overall -- and the 18 Auditor's run off something a little bit for me. 19 MS. HARGIS: Here's the list. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the second-year list? 21 MS. HARGIS: It's the second-year list. He says he 22 needs 29,300 for desktop computers, 9,500 for miscellaneous 23 purchase. Maintenance, we don't want in there. His budget, 24 I don't need in there. Internet access, do we -- that is an 25 annual thing? 8-18-09 bwk 84 1 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. What is this 251,000 for 3 Odyssey, Orion, and Incode? 4 MR. TROLINGER: That's my estimated on the capital 5 outlay for the five-year Bank of America note. 6 MS. HARGIS: The Bank of America note that we 7 already have. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it's already amortized. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So, you're saying you don't 10 need 40,000 for next year? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Well, that's the desktops. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: What your total requirement for the 13 second year? 14 MR. TROLINGER: I'm estimating about $97,000. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: So, if we just leave the hundred in, 17 we're fine. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're fine where we are 20 with the number we have. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. That's almost 22 exactly -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, just a little bit under that. 24 MR. TROLINGER: Close. 25 MS. HARGIS: Want it up to 300, guys? A little 8-18-09 bwk 85 1 extra? 2 MR. TROLINGER: And then, under the telephone line 3 item, I'm asking for a slight increase of $216 over what 4 administration has recommended right now for one additional 5 cell phone. It's -- total on telephone will be 8,732. And 6 it sounds like a big telephone budget, because apparently it 7 is. The -- I assume it's the courthouse that's been added 8 into the telephone line item for I.T.? 9 MS. HARGIS: It's the -- in the minutes on y'all's 10 phones that they're charging us for. 11 MR. TROLINGER: The cell phone plan on that, that 12 includes the cell phone. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did she just say? 14 MR. TROLINGER: It includes the county-wide cell 15 phone plan, the minutes. That's why there was such a large 16 jump in the I.T. telephone line item. It includes all county 17 cell phones. 18 MS. HARGIS: And it does include the courthouse -- 19 the main courthouse phone. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, all telephones are now 21 in your budget? 22 MS. HARGIS: No. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the -- the courthouse -- 24 MS. HARGIS: Main number -- 25 MR. TROLINGER: -- and the -- 8-18-09 bwk 86 1 MS. HARGIS: -- that you dial into that we pay for. 2 MR. TROLINGER: -- and all the cell phones, which 3 exclude the Sheriff's Office. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What courthouse numbers on 5 the phone system is not included in his budget, and why? 6 MS. HARGIS: We have a main number -- you know 7 what? I may be speaking out of school, so let me -- let me 8 research that before -- we have a main number, Buster, that 9 everybody calls in on. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 11 MS. HARGIS: And then each office has so many 12 instruments, and each office is charged by the instrument, 13 and long distance for each office. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: But I have to look at this. I don't 16 -- to be honest with you, I don't know what we put in this 17 number, John. Unless you -- you put it in. If so, you ought 18 to know what you put in there. 19 MR. TROLINGER: No, I did not. That's why I was 20 asking. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Jannett had a phone bill out 22 in hers a while ago that increased, so it can't include all 23 phones. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That was number of instruments and 25 long distance? 8-18-09 bwk 87 1 MS. PIEPER: That was because I have more -- more 2 phones than any other office. 3 MS. HARGIS: She has 17 phones coming into that one 4 office. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're talking about the base 6 trunk line charges -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that are included in this bill, 9 as well as the master cell phone contract, excluding the 10 Sheriff? 11 MS. HARGIS: Right. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably the right 14 way to do it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, tell us about the 17 added person that you've requested. 18 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I see the need -- there is a 19 need right now for someone that can be dedicated to desktop 20 support, interfacing with the users. The reason is, we need 21 to have a database administrator, someone at the -- at that 22 level that can help out with reports and -- and detailed 23 high-level software problems. 24 MS. HARGIS: I vote yes. 25 MS. HYDE: I vote yes. 8-18-09 bwk 88 1 MR. TROLINGER: I've got additional departments 2 that we've added this past year. We've added onto the county 3 network the Animal Control, the Road and Bridge -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You brought your support 5 base with you. 6 MS. HYDE: And training. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Training section, the Juvenile 8 Detention. And with the addition of I.T. specialist Bruce 9 Motheral, he's a real asset with the training. Definitely we 10 want to do that classroom training. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 12 MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome. 13 MS. BOLIN: Do you need another vote? We'll be 14 glad to vote again. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't vote twice on the 16 same subject. 17 MS. BOLIN: Oh, darn. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Supposed to do that up here, right? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's reserved for this dais 21 only. 22 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 23 MR. TROLINGER: I don't have real comfort with the 24 telephone line item -- the I.T. telephone line item, -- 25 MS. HARGIS: I've got to research. 8-18-09 bwk 89 1 MR. TROLINGER: -- on exactly what's going on 2 there, but I will say, as a result of replacing -- following 3 onto replacement of the courthouse telephone system, I expect 4 we'll be in a bid situation for services for both the local 5 and long distance, and I see a reduction coming on this year. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And a significant improvement in 7 service, in all probability. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Hopefully. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you see that 10 contract and so forth coming through the Court? 11 MR. TROLINGER: My original objective was to -- to 12 put in the bid documents, the RFP, this month, but with the 13 -- we've brought on Bruce, and he's somewhat of an expert on 14 telephones. I'm having him research more in-depth the 15 options before we put out the RFP. With the -- with the 16 funding now settled, we can anticipate September for the RFP, 17 and by January, the installation. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 19 MS. HARGIS: It's a pretty complicated RFP, believe 20 it or not. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure it is. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It doesn't just include the 23 courthouse telephones; it also includes -- for instance, it 24 could include Juvenile Detention Facility, because with 25 voice-over IP, we have the capability to connect the offices 8-18-09 bwk 90 1 that are just on our computer network to -- to telephones, so 2 we've got a lot of options. For instance, J.P. 2, that's 3 been a point of contention for some time. They have a very 4 high phone bill, even though they're inside the Sheriff's 5 building, the law enforcement center. They have a high phone 6 bill because they're being charged separately just for that 7 service, as if they were a separate entity. With voice-over 8 IP, we would just add three lines on that existed here at the 9 courthouse switch. Big savings, maybe by a factor of 10 50 percent. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 12 MR. TROLINGER: So, that's not completely settled 13 on the telephone line item and we'll have to come back on 14 that, Jeannie? 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, unless I can find it here. 16 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. I'd like to have as close to 17 an exact number as attainable. I'd like to tell you exactly 18 what we're doing on those items. 19 MS. HARGIS: I can't -- I've got so many pages. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Do you want to come back to that 21 later? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions, John? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you, sir. 24 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. Actually -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You got any more issues on this one? 8-18-09 bwk 91 1 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. This is lined out. We've got 2 cell phones for $216, a manager's cell phone for $204, the 3 computer room, $96, and the main trunk line, $8,000. And 4 then one additional cell phone for $216. So, there's a total 5 of $8,732. We took the phone out of nondepartmental, because 6 John has to approve that line anyway, and so we need it to go 7 through him in order for him to be able to approve the lines 8 and be able to put the tables in; they need to be in their 9 line items. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. So, the 8,000 is 11 approximate? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes, based on the current bill we have 13 today. 14 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. That's a good number, then. 15 MS. HARGIS: Right here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for 17 Mr. Trolinger? Okay, let's move on. Extension Service. 18 MR. WALSTON: Good afternoon. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon, Roy. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What number is that, Judge? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 665. 22 MR. WALSTON: 665. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We wrassled with some figures this 24 morning, and I think, at least with you and I and Ms. Hargis, 25 we pretty well got you squared away. Made some adjustments 8-18-09 bwk 92 1 this morning. 2 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Hargis, on some of the 4 others, you've got the lease payments for the -- what did we 5 buy, a van? 6 MS. HARGIS: Yes. We put it in, and we -- we put 7 it in the capital. We didn't take it out of this budget. We 8 wanted to present it to you guys before we took it from one 9 to the other, so I wanted to leave you the option as to what 10 you wanted to do with it. The lease payments are $7,532. He 11 does have three more to go. We haven't actually made one 12 yet, so if -- we made a down payment. So, we feel like the 13 payoff's around 20,000, 21,000. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Twenty-one is what you're showing. 15 MS. HARGIS: If you'd like to put it in the 16 capital, then we can remove that from the operating budget. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be significant over the 18 next three years. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would. 20 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That will be consistent with 22 all departments. 23 MS. HARGIS: You want to move it from -- that 24 7,000, then, from the operating budget and put it into the 25 capital, which I already have it in the capital. 8-18-09 bwk 93 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And the use of the vehicle is 2 having -- that vehicle has reduced your traveling costs? 3 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. We didn't get it -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what you said this morning. 5 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. We didn't get it till January 6 last year, and October, November, and December was a good bit 7 of traveling. That's where a lot of our 4-H Coordinator 8 travel came from that went over this year. So, I think 9 having it now going into the fall and early part of 4-H year, 10 that'll help. We should -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many projects do you have 12 out -- are you going to have out there? 13 MR. WALSTON: We've got right at two-thirds of the 14 pens full on the lambs and goats, and we'll -- we've got a 15 cutoff date on September 1st for the swine pens. So, after 16 September 1st, we should pretty well know. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But a good number? 18 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. We're getting some new kids. 19 We're getting some kids that haven't done it before that -- 20 as a matter of fact, got two graduating seniors that have 21 never got to show. They get to show this year. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Because they now have available a 23 place to keep their animals? 24 MR. WALSTON: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, took us a while to get there, 8-18-09 bwk 94 1 but we got there, didn't we, Roy? 2 MR. WALSTON: Finally, we're getting there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. This is -- we're using a 4 building that's been there for I don't know how many years. 5 It's been useless, just sitting there. Now it's being used 6 for multi purposes. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Junk barn is what it was. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: When did you and I first start 9 talking about trying to find a friendly rancher that was 10 close enough -- 11 MR. WALSTON: Oh, I imagine it's been at least 12 three, if not four years ago. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked about trying a joint 14 venture with K.I.S.D. for a couple years. 15 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. Yeah, just trying to find a 16 place to put it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All we had to do is put it 18 out there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Sitting right there under our nose, 20 wasn't it? 21 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 24 MR. WALSTON: No. Everything's fine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions, Ms. Hargis? 8-18-09 bwk 95 1 MS. HARGIS: No. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen? Thank you, sir. 3 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. County-sponsored. Most of 5 those figures have remained pretty static. Trapper contract, 6 Jon, that's -- that figure was adjusted for this year's 7 budget. So far as you know, is that going to -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It shouldn't change from last 9 year. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The deal is still in effect. I 12 presume that they're billing us accordingly. Only other 13 issue I have -- or not issue -- question is, I was asked by 14 residents in Comfort that one of the -- Big Sister/Big 15 Brother that requested funding, they get some from Kendall 16 County. I said that our -- whenever -- our policy is if it's 17 not used by our judicial system or the County Judge, you 18 know, we don't fund it. But I said I'd bring it up. 19 MS. HARGIS: How much? How much is the Big 20 Brothers/Big Sisters? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We've allocated 4,000 the last few 22 years, because they participate in a lot of mentoring 23 children with kids in the juvenile justice system. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a different group. 25 This is a group in Comfort, which comes out of Kendall 8-18-09 bwk 96 1 County, but they serve a lot of Kerr County youth. These 2 are -- I just -- I mean, I didn't really -- wasn't real fired 3 up on adding it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. They asked you to raise the 5 issue. You've raised the issue. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've raised the issue. And the 7 answer is, we fund it in Kerr County, and if they can talk 8 them out of some of the money, they can have it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I see you zeroed out 11 the AACOG line. Was that the dues, the annual dues? And if 12 so, why? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: AACOG dues, we're paying either 14 through nondepartmental or Commissioners Court. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. It's not -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure which one of those we 17 plugged it into, but it's dues and subscriptions. I think 18 it's probably nondepartmental. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If I'm not mistaken. That's -- do 21 you recall the -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall now. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the figure? The amount, 24 approximately? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 8-18-09 bwk 97 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 2,400, something like that? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somewhere in that range, 3 yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the rest of these are 5 all the same or based on contract, correct? Such as the KCAD 6 contract; we pay a portion of that? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That's -- that number, of 8 course, we decided earlier. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the rest of them are all 10 the same as the current year. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's right. And if you'll 12 recall, Historical Commission went from, like, 2,500 to 4,500 13 this current year. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: They had asked for more, but the 16 Court settled on 45. But other than that, all those other 17 numbers are -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About the same. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the same as they've been. 20 MS. MABRY: Judge? The AACOG dues were paid out of 21 the nondepartmental, books, publications -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say again, Tess? 23 MS. MABRY: They were paid out of books, 24 publications, and dues for nondepartmental. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the amount? 8-18-09 bwk 98 1 MS. HARGIS: 3,055. You can see it right up there 2 on the screen. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, thank you. That gets that 4 issue resolved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions on 7 County-sponsored? Ms. Lyle, are you ready to go with yours? 8 MS. LYLE: I'm ready, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to the collections. 10 It says "Collections." How about "Court Compliance"? 11 MS. HARGIS: We changed the name. 12 MS. LYLE: I really don't have a whole lot of 13 issues. A couple items that were reduced minorly, and I'm 14 comfortable with what was reduced. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What number are you? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 429. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 429? 18 MS. HARGIS: You have enough for office supplies 19 and travel this time? 20 MS. LYLE: I hope so, yes. The only thing that I 21 know we'll be really close on is going to be our search 22 program. Our projected end-of-year budget is going to be 23 right at $1,800, and we requested $1,800. And I understand 24 J.P. 3 has opted not to renew their contract with Accurate. 25 I don't know if they are going to be calling upon our 8-18-09 bwk 99 1 services to help them find people, but that will be the only 2 thing I would see we need to increase a little bit. 3 MS. HARGIS: When did they do that? 4 MS. LYLE: That I don't know. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do all J.P.'s subscribe to a 6 search group? 7 MS. LYLE: I do not know that. 8 MS. HARGIS: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does J.P. 3 subscribe to a 11 search group? 12 MS. LYLE: They did. It was either discussed they 13 were going to discontinue it, or they had discontinued it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would they do that? 15 MS. HARGIS: I don't know. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, why would they be a 17 -- use a service like that? 18 MS. LYLE: I don't know, unless it's the same 19 reason we use it, for their collections. 20 MS. HARGIS: For collecting tickets, finding 21 people. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Oh, that's right. 23 MS. LYLE: Accurate is to locate people. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. I 25 understand. 8-18-09 bwk 100 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 2 MS. HARGIS: Did you say J.P. 1 or J.P. 3? 3 MS. LYLE: J.P. 3. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: On our search programs, then, are we 5 going to see if that will work? If not, we'll -- 6 MS. LYLE: I'm comfortable with leaving it where 7 it's at to see if it works. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MS. LYLE: And then if I have to, I'll come back 10 and ask for more, but I hope I don't have to. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems to me if she was going 12 to discontinue her service and expect your office to pick up 13 that service, she would -- wouldn't she have said something? 14 MS. LYLE: She would have said something. I just 15 heard it through the grapevine. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm assuming she's not going 17 to do it. 18 MS. LYLE: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any more questions for 20 Ms. Lyle? Do you have any questions? 21 MS. LYLE: Hmm-mm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis? 23 MS. HARGIS: No. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 25 MS. LYLE: Thank you. 8-18-09 bwk 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: City/County joint. That is in a 2 bunch of places, most of which I think have already been 3 concluded. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 595. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's just the airport. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to 7 discontinue all of that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've heard that before 9 someplace. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Sell the airport. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably from the guy that 12 used to sit on this end of the table. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Sell the airport. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not sure I don't agree 15 with him. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's becoming a real 17 feeling. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 19 MS. HARGIS: Okay. On this budget, we have the 20 salary line items, but we get reimbursed for the salary. We 21 have to put it in to be able to use our payroll system. Our 22 actual amount of operations is 315,892. We do have the 23 capital in here. That was intentionally left in here as a 24 space in case that we -- you know, as we're working down, 25 that was about the only money we had left to balance. So, we 8-18-09 bwk 102 1 do have that amount -- amount left. It is possible, I think, 2 probably to put in -- with that amount of money, to put in a 3 2 percent COLA if y'all wanted to. Or we can reduce the 4 budget and have surplus, so it's up to y'all. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line, the 315,892? 6 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. The 495 -- 455 is the 300 we 7 did have -- I was over, so I borrowed 8,700 from that, 8 actually, yesterday. But we have that in two places. We 9 have that under the capital items, which I added on the -- 10 the bond -- the note, and we also have it here. So, if I 11 eliminate that, we will then have 300,000 free to do other 12 projects, or perhaps give the employees a 2 percent COLA, or 13 any other large projects that I don't know about. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that airport 15 administrators can either be the -- on the capital list, as 16 well as anything. I mean, that's -- to me, they should be 17 kind of items that are -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are they here? Are -- 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, they're there. It's part of 21 the 850. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Master study. 23 MS. HARGIS: The water line is actually around 375, 24 386,000, because it came in at 746 or 767; I can't remember 25 exactly now. The master study which is done every year, our 8-18-09 bwk 103 1 share of that was 8,750. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not done every year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Every ten years. 4 MS. HARGIS: Done every ten years, okay. And then 5 the hangars are a real open question right now. But just 6 based on the meeting that we attended, we know that they're 7 going to try to change locations, but I also know they want 8 to build -- in order to make enough money, they needed to 9 build enough hangars to do that, to get the capital return, 10 to get the R.O.I. on it. So, there is -- the other location 11 they're looking at needs a road, and that was my only concern 12 when we were talking that day. Remember, they said they 13 needed a road to that area to get to it. It is flatter and 14 will allow them to build more hangars on that location. I 15 don't know if Steve has come up with -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're working on these 17 numbers, and I think -- I mean, we just don't have a final. 18 I think the 850 is as good a number as we have right now. It 19 may go down some. I don't see it going up. 20 MS. HARGIS: The site plan. The site plan -- we 21 looked at that one day -- was 253,000, so that's the reason 22 why they had to change that, was the site plan alone was too 23 expensive to -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it your understanding 25 that the City's going to fund their share of this out of 8-18-09 bwk 104 1 general revenues as well? 2 MS. HARGIS: I don't know where the City's going to 3 fund theirs. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're -- what they said 5 was -- and I don't understand what it means, was that they're 6 going to loan the airport the money. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All of it? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 9 MS. HARGIS: What I think -- what I think they 10 wanted to do was -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think they're going to 12 have to rethink that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so. 14 MS. HARGIS: -- they wanted to -- they're going to 15 borrow from themselves, is what they're going to do. They 16 wanted us to borrow with them, and I said I don't think that 17 sounds real good. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good response, Ms. Hargis. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will agree with you on that 20 one. 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay. One time, yay. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mark the day. 4:01. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We found something. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18th day of August at 25 4:01 p.m. 8-18-09 bwk 105 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At 4:03. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Finally got one. Whew, it's 3 been a long, dry season, boys. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It ain't over yet. 5 MS. HARGIS: We actually do think alike as far as 6 money is concerned, I think. We don't like to spend what we 7 don't have to. But there was no way I was going to pay them 8 interest on their money. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got that right. 10 MS. HARGIS: So, if they want to borrow -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me get a question in 12 here sideways, and then I'll go back to sleep. We're talking 13 T-hangars? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, of course, you know, 16 our -- and we're paying 50 percent? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any of these will be 19 50 percent. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we can -- we can build a 21 road, and that would be part of our -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The road cost should be pretty 23 minimal. They're looking at building these over there by 24 Mooney on that big flat land -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, okay. 8-18-09 bwk 106 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- by the paint shed, which 2 makes sense. I think they were kind of -- that had been set 3 aside for a big project someday. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think they finally 6 realized that maybe they ought to -- maybe they ought to just 7 build something over there and get it moving. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, they ought to 9 decide every once in a while the big boys are not the whole 10 picture. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's not? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The big boys that fly the big 13 fancy jets. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they've got hangars 15 already. It's the little guys -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they need to, they build 17 one wherever they need one. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is our part of -- here 19 it is right here in front of me. Is our part of the 20 T-hangars in here? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 24 Good night. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good night. Have a nice 8-18-09 bwk 107 1 nap. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 3 MS. HARGIS: And I believe the thought with the 4 T-hangars is that the rental income off of the T-hangars will 5 be able to lower our maintenance costs by producing more 6 revenue for them. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's the general 8 theory. (Laughter.) 9 MS. HARGIS: True. We hope it works. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll wait and see. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Jon, there was some discussion about 12 some creative and innovative ways to handle the financing of 13 this water line, maybe a deal that would not require -- and 14 presumably something different from borrowing funds from the 15 City of Kerrville, which I can't see them being in the 16 lending business in the first place with their -- with their 17 capital debt structure, but -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there was some -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's not my decision. But by 20 which we would not have to, up front, put out all these 21 capital costs, but there was a way to get the funding for 22 that and -- and pledge the proceeds. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was some discussion 25 about that, Judge, talking about the Airport Board, with the 8-18-09 bwk 108 1 approval of the City and the County, issuing debt for these 2 projects and building in the amortization schedule in the 3 operating budgets going forward. Which means we don't fund 4 it up front. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the other side of that 6 is that -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: In the plan -- I'm reading your 8 mind -- we're paying half the capital costs. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's our benefit to have the -- 10 the revenue -- the revenue off these projects come to our 11 benefit. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it may very well wash 13 out that way. 14 MS. HARGIS: That's the reason why I said what I 15 did, because if we -- if we pay for them up front and then it 16 lowers our maintenance costs, we actually come out ahead. We 17 actually are getting return on our investment. Our goal is 18 to make them self-sufficient. If we -- so we're going to 19 have to actually reach out and help them to get that way. 20 And once they're self-sufficient, then our 315,000 goes away. 21 Which is -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That argument holds water, 23 Jeannie, for the hangars. It doesn't necessarily hold true 24 for repairing the water line out there that they goofed up to 25 begin with. 8-18-09 bwk 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. The water line issue, 2 that is one where I think that we can build into development 3 a capital recovery fee on the airport, and if it happens to 4 go off the airport, so we get paid back. Like, on every 5 lease they do off that water line, there's a capital recovery 6 fee that we split. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There will have to be a 8 lot -- you and I will have to make certain and negotiate that 9 if that is the case. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that's -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've raised that issue. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think they sort of agreed 13 to it. 14 MS. HARGIS: I think they did. Most of the time, 15 with a development, that's what you get as you build a main 16 trunk line, and when other people come along, they need to 17 pay their share. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can just be a -- or that 19 leaves all that space that we're, you know, going to make 20 available for growth. Now, there has to be, whether it's -- 21 even if it's $5,000, $10,000 a -- you know, 10,000 square 22 feet, whatever it is, some formula where there's some money 23 coming in to help offset a little bit of that, 'cause the 24 City's darn sure going to offset on their side. I just want 25 to make sure we share in it. 8-18-09 bwk 110 1 MS. HARGIS: We need to get an agreement signed 2 before we decide to pay for -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No question about it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No question about it. 6 Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Did we kick that one around 8 pretty good? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty good. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Health and Emergency 11 Services, 630. We've got two items in there -- actually, 12 three. We got the EMS contract. We've solidified that 13 number at our joint meeting with the City. First Responder 14 expenses. 15 MS. HARGIS: That's the new number. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 17 MS. HARGIS: And these included the things that he 18 talked to you about, I think the gear that they wear; I think 19 several sets of gear, as you recall. And so when he came 20 over and we sat down -- I don't know that I have a note in 21 there, but last year's budget was 12,5, and I think he bought 22 -- I want to say six or eight additional kits to help with 23 responding. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Most of those were in the west end 25 of the county, as I recall, too, more sparsely populated 8-18-09 bwk 111 1 areas. 2 MS. HARGIS: And he said the program, again, was 3 just going really, really well. They're still having a lot 4 of people sign up for that, so I think that's a really good 5 program. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have -- I have hooked him 7 up with Tierra Linda. A lot of those guys out there are 8 trained, but not to the level that he does it here, and 9 they're going to partner in with us and use us for that 10 training and get them certified and do that. I don't -- 11 there was nothing said about them getting those glass-proof 12 shirts and all that stuff. They can kind of do their own, I 13 think. But I just thought that was kind of neat. He -- he 14 is really an interesting fellow that puts the community 15 first, and I'm enjoying the relationship Kerr County has with 16 this guy. 17 MS. HARGIS: Eric is 100 percent for his community. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he is. 19 MS. HARGIS: He's a fine young man. And he was -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Interesting fellow. 21 MS. HARGIS: While doing the EMS, he finished his 22 college degree two years ago, and went every night, plus did 23 all of this. And he has a great passion for this. It's 24 really wonderful. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 139,254, that's 8-18-09 bwk 112 1 strictly EMS, right? 2 MS. HARGIS: That's EMS. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's fire? 4 MS. HARGIS: Fire is under City/County. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's somewhere else. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: Actually, there's a fire fund right 8 there, 14. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Fire protection, 14-661. 10 MS. HARGIS: That includes not only the city, but 11 all of the volunteer fire departments, so if there's any -- I 12 mean, that's what we've given them all in the past. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MS. HARGIS: We actually were at 180; we had to go 15 up to 185, as you recall from at the meeting. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. HARGIS: So, I left all of the volunteer fire 18 departments as-is, unless y'all tell me differently. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And then the only other thing we 20 have is the library, and that comes in at a flat 300. 21 MS. HARGIS: That's right. I wish, though -- in 22 one respect, the only thing that I'd like, if we could, is to 23 have contracts with some of the volunteer fire departments 24 about our money, because sometimes we get some really strange 25 requests for what they're spending, and we don't have any 8-18-09 bwk 113 1 kind of policy as to what they can and cannot spend on, and 2 it really puts us in a bad position, 'cause sometimes we're 3 approving things that are a little bit -- you know, one lady 4 turned in mileage to go get water, to pick up water and take 5 it to the fire department because there was a fire, for 6 drinking water. She charged us the mileage. And as long as 7 the fire chief approves it, there's nothing I can do about 8 it. So, in -- in the past in my company, we used to have 9 with our volunteer fire departments kind of a criteria that 10 they had to meet. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we had contracts with 12 all of them. 13 MS. PIEPER: We have contracts with them, but it 14 doesn't specify what that money can be used for. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it doesn't. 16 MS. HARGIS: So, I just wanted to bring that up. 17 That's entirely up to you. We'll continue to do this, but I 18 do think there are some things we pay out of there that I 19 don't think you'd be real happy with. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it possible for you to 21 put together a list of -- of potential expenditures which are 22 not -- could not/should not be approved? We can take it from 23 the reverse side back in our discussions with the various 24 VFD's. 25 MS. HARGIS: Well, we can put it together. I mean, 8-18-09 bwk 114 1 it -- and it's -- again, because you don't have any criteria, 2 there's nothing -- there's no -- there's nothing -- no way I 3 can turn them down. But, I mean, they're -- they're items 4 that I -- right now, I -- it's just been several different 5 things over the last couple of years. We'll go back and 6 look, but I think you'll be surprised. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: My recollection is that it provides 8 that they will be reimbursed for, and then some broad, 9 general -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- headings; equipment, training, -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and so forth. The only 14 prohibition being, you can't pay people. No personnel costs. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Beer. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't say that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can buy beer? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That should be -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe there's a specific 20 prohibition in there about you cannot pay personnel costs. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right. 22 MS. HARGIS: We didn't -- we haven't gotten 23 anything like that. We haven't gotten any personnel costs, 24 just some little kind of strange little -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just some beer. 8-18-09 bwk 115 1 MS. HARGIS: -- strange little quirks. And I hope 2 we're not paying for beer. I would turn that one down. I 3 have had -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not as much as you used to. 5 MS. HARGIS: Not as much as I used to? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's closed-minded. 7 That's pretty closed-minded. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's just leave it at 9 that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster knows what I'm talking 11 about. 12 MS. HARGIS: One for one. Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got to remember, now, 14 these people are volunteers, and you got to treat them with 15 kid gloves. You tick one of them off, buddy, and we're in 16 trouble. 17 MS. HARGIS: I have attended several of those 18 parties where I wouldn't pay for the refreshment. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You think we're tough; you 20 wait till you tackle one of those guys. 21 MS. HARGIS: Don't mess with them. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: Is that pretty much -- I think this 24 pretty much covers everything. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We got everything out for the day, 8-18-09 bwk 116 1 gentlemen? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks that way. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: My apologies to you, Kathy, for 4 running you over. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Her fingers are cramping. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about me? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry to have wakened you. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Your 9 apology is accepted. 10 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I'm going to throw back the 11 question again with the 300,000. Would y'all like to think 12 about what you would like to do with that, and we discuss it 13 on Monday? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How did we -- how did we end 15 up -- now, what are we talking about? Left over from 16 previous? How did we end up with $300,000? I can't figure 17 that out. 18 MS. HARGIS: We didn't -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we -- if we kind of 20 line-itemed it in the beginning and said, "Okay, we're going 21 to go out and borrow 'X' amount of dollars," based on these 22 issues -- these items, and then we have 300,000 left over? 23 MS. HARGIS: The airport -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do we do that? 25 MS. HARGIS: Well, again, remember, I left the 8-18-09 bwk 117 1 21,000 in for you to take out. I also left this in, because 2 we knew we had two projects at the airport. We had -- we 3 have the water line and the master plan, and we also had the 4 hangars. So, I didn't know if we wanted to borrow money on 5 all of it, or only on part of it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you kind of just fluffed 7 the little deal up some. 8 MS. HARGIS: Well, I just put 300 in each in the 9 beginning so that y'all could decide how you wanted to go. 10 'Cause we can -- we could pay out part of the water line, but 11 not all of the water line at the current -- at the cost it 12 came in at. And that's the reason why I put the whole water 13 line in after talking with Bob Henderson on Friday, is 14 because the water line is closer to 400,000 versus 300,000, 15 and we really can't sustain that in our -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't you do the 17 Sheriff's cars he's wanting? That's 300,000. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do them out of that money, 20 and take them out of this -- the one for this coming year. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can be done. I mean, it's 22 just -- I think it's just because there's 300,000. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- does the windows 24 come out of that? 25 MS. HARGIS: No. No. 8-18-09 bwk 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's 300 extra, over and 2 above the windows and those two or three other little things. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, 300 -- 200 -- 4 MS. HARGIS: In our general -- general '09-'10 5 budget remaining to be either spent towards the airport -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 7 MS. HARGIS: Removed? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No more airport. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay, we have 300,000. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to sell it. 11 MS. HARGIS: We can reduce the -- the new bond 12 issue by -- the new -- excuse me, I'm used to saying that -- 13 the new tax note by -- or there's a possibility of increasing 14 the retirement or paying a COLA. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much is a 2 percent 16 COLA? 17 MS. HARGIS: 2 percent COLA on 12 million is going 18 -- with the roll-ups, is going to be right under 300,000. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's deficit budgeting. 20 Take that 300 out of there. You going to build it into the 21 following year's budget, or are you just asking a general 22 question? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just asking a general 24 question. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm sorry, I thought you were 8-18-09 bwk 119 1 talking about the 300 that's in the capital. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. It's either something 3 like that, or give it back to the taxpayers, you know. I 4 mean, something. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right now, we have -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some way to give it back to 7 the taxpayers, like pay down some of this debt or something 8 like that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can use it and then 10 lower the new tax anticipation note accordingly. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm talking 12 about. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What I'm getting at. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm talking 15 about. That's giving it back to the community. Damn, I sure 16 wanted that big raise. Oh, man. 17 MS. HARGIS: Well, I had -- you know, I have to ask 18 for the employees. I don't think that they're expecting 19 anything, but, you know, this just happened to work out that 20 way. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll look at it. I would 22 probably be in favor if we can do it without doing a deficit 23 budget, to -- even if it's 1 percent. I mean, I think 24 because if you don't do something, it catches up with you 25 down the road. 8-18-09 bwk 120 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Like it did last 2 year or the year before, whenever it was. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, but if you can't 4 afford it, you can't afford it. But if there's -- you know, 5 if we can get a balanced budget, outside of the capital 6 stuff, -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then I'm in favor of doing 9 it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you have -- if you have 11 300,000 and a 2 percent salary increase for everybody, it 12 comes in under 300,000. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's deficit spending 15 about that? 16 MR. ODOM: There's not any. The -- there's -- we 17 have an approximate payroll of around $12 million, so, I 18 mean, 240,000 of that would be the 2 percent. And then you 19 got rollup costs of 7.65 and the retirement of 10.59, which 20 comes out to 18-something percent. I think it comes in 21 around 275,000. One percent, you're going to just take half 22 of that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include -- does 24 that include the retirees? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 8-18-09 bwk 121 1 MS. HARGIS: The retirees getting a raise? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include the 3 retirees getting a 2 percent -- 4 MS. HARGIS: No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- COLA? 6 MS. HARGIS: No. No. The retirement fund -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to start talking 8 about the retirees, helping these retirees a little bit. 9 MS. HARGIS: It's not -- no, I'm not -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not there yet. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but I'm close. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Getting closer. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Getting close. 14 MS. HARGIS: I think what you guys want is for us 15 to manage somehow -- and that's the other thing you could do, 16 is buy down some of our -- our funding deficit that occurred 17 during this marketplace. You know, we -- we took about a 18 35 percent hit on the investments in the retirement plan as a 19 whole, and they've recouped about 25 percent of that. 20 However, most of the funding is down, so we're actually 21 paying 1 percent over the -- each year over the next 10 22 years, and they're calling it a smoothing effect so that we 23 don't get hit with the whole payback at one time. Now, we 24 can buy that down, which will decrease our rate. But when I 25 was at the seminar, I talked to the actuary, and he said he 8-18-09 bwk 122 1 really wasn't gung-ho, unless you had really extra money to 2 put in. And when I figured it, in order to get our 3 percentage down, we have to put in about $550,000. 300,000 4 doesn't even affect it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Forget it. 6 MS. HARGIS: So, to me, it's easier for us to take 7 the 1 percent hit and just ride it on out. And if the market 8 comes back, they could recoup it faster. You know, it's one 9 of those things. But they have it on a 10-year situation. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they had to set it up 11 that way, and if they recoup more as the market continues to 12 rise, as it has done, then that will either go up quicker or 13 can be reduced. 14 MS. HARGIS: I hope it doesn't decline too much 15 more. So far they've done pretty well. They do have some 16 really good money managers; I was pleased to see that. State 17 Street Bank has always been a pretty solid institution, and 18 they are behind most of the investments. They have an 19 in-house gentleman who takes care of it. He seems very 20 qualified. I think we actually did better than the T.M.R.S. 21 fund. The City -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Down about 15 percent. 23 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. The T.M.R.S., the City -- we 24 talked to them yesterday. Their percentage is 14 percent. 25 Ours is -- is 11. That includes our insurance. 8-18-09 bwk 123 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? I'm wondering if it 2 would be -- be wise for us to ask Jody maybe to get with the 3 Auditor and come up with a list of ideas of what to do with 4 this $300,000. (Laughter.) 5 MS. HARGIS: Jody and I can spend it real well. 6 Can we have it? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can start with paying 8 off her mortgage. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pay off her mortgage. Shopping 10 at -- you know, shopping at -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fix your road. I'm trying 12 to get your road fixed. 13 MS. GRINSTEAD: There you go. 14 MS. HARGIS: I need some. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will do about 100 feet 16 of your road. 17 MS. GRINSTEAD: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I -- what I heard -- I 19 heard two or three little ideas. And I think this lady's 20 standing there asking us, "What do y'all want to do?" I 21 think I heard her say that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I heard her say was, 23 these are some -- some possible options. There may be more. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fine. That's fine. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We're in position to really zero in 8-18-09 bwk 124 1 on something now, keep thinking about it, and come up with a 2 decision later. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need -- we need to 5 have that conversation, but I think also, at the same time, 6 we look at the capital item list, which is a little bit 7 inflated to me. We may be able to cut that back some. We 8 need to look at -- you know, need to get a better number for 9 the airport. Need to get a better number on the building, or 10 a smaller building. I don't think -- I think the number you 11 pretty much have to go with, but I think the size of it can 12 be adjusted downward, which will save 200,000 or 300,000. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think both of them can be adjusted 14 down. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Both of them, size and the 16 number. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jeannie, any problem with 19 bond covenants, rolling that into the general fund, for use 20 of the general fund? 21 MS. HARGIS: The money that we have? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. HARGIS: No, you can't do that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to jail. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I'm not going with 8-18-09 bwk 125 1 you, Bill. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm not -- the reason I 3 asked the question is because you're talking about using 4 it -- basically, using it for employee raises. That's 5 putting it in the general fund. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's not there yet. 7 MS. HARGIS: Not there yet. It's still in the 8 general fund, budgeted in the general fund, so -- it's just 9 shown as a capital item, but that just means that we put it 10 in the capital item area because we -- that helps us to know 11 we need to put it on fixed assets, and it also shows you 12 where those items can be deleted or added. But it's a 13 general item right now. It's just a general operating item 14 right now. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: There are some little items that you 17 can see on the capital that would be nice to -- just to clean 18 up and take out, besides the radios, like the $5,500 that we 19 have for the vacuums and stuff like that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MS. HARGIS: I'd like to clean that up to where 22 it's mostly big-ticket items. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Vehicles or -- at least not -- 24 well, a vacuum's almost an expense item, anyway. I mean -- 25 or what is there, a shampooer. 8-18-09 bwk 126 1 MS. HARGIS: They're pretty expensive, so -- but in 2 the overall scope, we need to look at those. But I would 3 rather y'all think about it rather than make a quick 4 decision. And I'll be glad to, you know, get any feedback 5 from any of the other elected officials as well. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It appears to me that we have a 7 doable budget, with adjustments to make, and look at the 8 debt. Judge, what's your idea on our next meeting? When are 9 you going to call us back together to talk about this topic? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got to -- we're going to 11 file this budget. 12 MS. HARGIS: We need to go ahead and file. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to file a budget, and 14 we're going to be filing that this week. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the 300,000 going to 16 be? Take it out of that airport -- take it out of where it 17 is. Just leave it off, maybe. 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, just -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't like it. I don't think 20 it's -- I don't like it being in the capital category over 21 there at the airport. 22 MS. HARGIS: When I zero it out, it will just show 23 we have a fund balance, which is not a bad thing either. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. It wouldn't hurt to 25 raise that and build that a little bit for the next year. 8-18-09 bwk 127 1 MS. HARGIS: That's also another option. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But we -- then, come Monday, we're 3 going to need to handle the first step of the tax rate. That 4 comes on for a record vote. And then, of course, we'll set 5 the -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For information. 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, what comes on Monday, Judge, is 8 you actually set the public hearings. Now, she's going to be 9 publishing the effective tax rate -- and Diane left -- on 10 Thursday, okay? And we -- the effective rate is what she's 11 publishing, so please keep in mind that the effective rate is 12 not what you're going to levy. You are actually -- what you 13 -- what we have put in this budget is last year's tax rate. 14 Last year's debt rate and last year's tax rate. And it is 15 less than -- it is less than the effective rate. To give you 16 an idea, and I told the Judge this earlier, when you look at 17 my cover page on the budget, it says we have increased our -- 18 our revenue by 179,400 -- I think it's 400. And of that 179, 19 74,000 was new property. It equates to a 1 percent increase 20 in the roll. That's why we did the assumption at 1 percent. 21 So, that's a very small increase. I mean, we're really 22 coming under the effective rate, so most of our residents 23 will really see a reduction, almost, in taxes. Now, the one 24 thing, too, that I want to make y'all aware of, if you look 25 at the appraised value of the over-65, and you look at what 8-18-09 bwk 128 1 we're going to receive as taxes, we are losing a million, 2 five. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What are we going to lose on 4 the new law that was passed by the State Legislature of no 5 taxes for the disabled veterans? 6 MS. HARGIS: I'm real concerned about that, because 7 we have a lot of disabled veterans. They have to be 100 8 percent, I believe, to be totally exempt. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right. 10 MS. HARGIS: But we do have a lot of them, because 11 we have the V.A. Hospital here. We're going to take some 12 really hard hits. We really are going to have to look at 13 this hard next year to adjust the rate. I know you all got a 14 letter from Mindy, and she and I were reviewing it. And one 15 of the things that you notice in our cash balance -- 'cause I 16 went back into the software to '06, and I wasn't able to go 17 back any farther than that, because that's the first year 18 they pooled the cash together so I can actually compare 19 money. But we -- we have about a $6 million -- 6 million -- 20 we have 7 million today. In '06 we had 6 million, 20. Today 21 we have 7 million, 14. So, our cash is remaining relatively 22 stable, but we're not growing our balances for an emergency 23 or a big trial or something of that nature. That worries me 24 a little bit. I can't -- you know, I would love to see you 25 raise the taxes, but I realize it's a political thing. Even 8-18-09 bwk 129 1 the effective rate -- the effective rate shows a $499,000 2 increase, with 174 of that new property. But it's about .89 3 cents higher than we are today. 4 So, I will leave y'all kind of with that, but I 5 know you're going to get some calls because of the fact that 6 it says it's higher. So, just an F.Y.I., you want to tell 7 your constituents this is the effective rate, not the rate 8 we're levying. But on Monday, you're going to decide -- 9 you're going to have the two public hearings to decide what 10 your tax rate is, and since we have been able to balance the 11 budget, you know, with -- I thought we really -- that's why I 12 pulled everything out that I possibly could. I think we're 13 going to make it, and I think the reason we're going to make 14 it is because of Rusty. And that 300,000 that we ended up 15 with is basically the 300,000 that he gave us by -- by 16 putting the inmates in there. And we also checked the food, 17 and thanks to Rusty, he had enough money in there for food, 18 so we upped the food budget just a little bit. I think -- 19 what, $24,000, Tess? And because -- when he said 350, I got 20 real excited, but then I remembered, we got to feed them, so 21 what's the cost going to be? And so he had figured in that 22 he would have a population, maybe, of 150 in there, so we 23 have plenty of food. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would the -- Buster, the 25 Indigent Health care, that comes out of the general fund, 8-18-09 bwk 130 1 correct? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, without the change we made 4 there, we'd be in serious trouble. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the other big -- 6 MS. HARGIS: That's the big-ticket item. And, you 7 know, next year, though, we're going to have a problem. The 8 reason we were able to do that this year is the cash balance 9 that they have in the indigent was large, and therefore, we 10 are drawing down on their cash. But they're going to -- 11 their cash balance is going to go way down, so we're not 12 going to -- you know, depending on what they do this year, 13 that may go up next year. So -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But you're right, Jon. They, coming 15 into this year, with what they held as cash balance this 16 current year, took a lot of the edge off of -- off of the 17 hard times that we have. 18 MS. HARGIS: They came in with a million. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most of it. 20 MS. HARGIS: They came in with a million, and they 21 only spent a half a million. Plus we gave them tax money. 22 We -- we cut a little bit last year, so they're going to come 23 into this year with about 650,000. So, they're doing really 24 well. Leonard's also doing really well in his, because the 25 collection -- or Compliance department, all those funds are 8-18-09 bwk 131 1 going to Leonard, and he's way ahead on that, in those fees. 2 Those fees are about 150,000 ahead as of July 31, so he's 3 going to end up with a better fund balance. But right now, I 4 can't predict how high it is; I don't want to. So, that's 5 the reason why I'd like to put half of his back in, because 6 he needs to stay -- if we have a flood or anything, we need 7 -- we need instant cash. Then we can go borrow, but we need 8 instant cash. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Another thing is, by taking 10 the two years of capital -- capital loans -- capital projects 11 out of the Maintenance and Operation budget makes a big 12 difference. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Saves the lease costs that 14 we're -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, big difference. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're fortunate to be able to 17 be paying off things so that we can use that money -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- to pay for things that we 20 do in the future. 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, and I really want to compliment 22 every one of the elected officials here. I mean, I've never 23 seen people budget so tightly as these folks do. They do a 24 great job. They really do. They're very conscious of the 25 fact that this is taxpayers' money, and they do a great job 8-18-09 bwk 132 1 in giving us a budget that we don't have to really cut a 2 whole lot, because they've done it themselves. And even when 3 I went out and asked for that, a whole lot of them came back 4 and cut again. Jannett's one of them. So, you know, we got 5 a good group of folks that we work with here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When -- when are we going to 9 talk about if we want to go over some of the budgets again? 10 Right now? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think the big item that's 12 hanging in the balance is trying to get a tighter handle on 13 these capital costs. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And adjusting some of those in or 16 out, or -- or fine-tuning them. I think a huge item is this 17 building. There's a wide divergence in what even some of us 18 here on the Court think that thing's going to cost. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, or what -- you know, I 20 -- I want to get a clear picture on what we're talking about. 21 Are we talking about -- I mean, is the curtains going to be 22 in the window and the doorknobs going to be on the doors? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What windows? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, what windows? That's 25 correct. I thought of that earlier. But, no, I want -- I 8-18-09 bwk 133 1 want to have another shot at the 198th D.A.'s budget. I'll 2 just lay that out there on the table. I think that needs to 3 be talked about some more. Are we going to have that 4 opportunity? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We can take the opportunity. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you want that opportunity, we 8 will take it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that should 12 happen at some point. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: But the biggest item that I see that 14 we've got hanging out there loose is this capital stuff. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I agree. Oh, 16 yeah, by far. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Until we get a little bit more 18 information on that, I'm not sure we can refine that to the 19 point where we really are comfortable setting a number on it 20 to start that process rolling. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can we do that Monday after 22 our meeting, or do we need to do it prior to that? We'd have 23 a hard time with posting before -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we're going to 25 have the data. 8-18-09 bwk 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We won't have it Monday, I don't 2 see. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this is still August. 4 We've still got a while to go. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, we're early this year. But I 6 would say maybe one more week, but then we need to nail it 7 down, just because it takes six weeks for us to -- to get 8 this thing rolling. And -- and the market is just not as -- 9 Bob told the Judge and I we need -- we need to hurry. Not -- 10 because he's not real sure what the interest rates are going 11 to do. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could plan for a week from 13 Monday. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'd be all right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to have a special meeting 16 to wrap up budget stuff. That should be September -- that's 17 the 31st? Or 1st? 1st. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Be the 1st -- no, 31st of August. 19 Sure would be. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 31st. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine, whatever. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Remind me, so -- so Monday, 23 -- Monday, she was talking about setting tax rates. 24 MS. HARGIS: No, setting -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Start the process to set the tax 8-18-09 bwk 135 1 rate on Monday. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She was talking about 3 Monday; she was talking about setting tax rates. Whether 4 that is setting up the dates to do that, or -- what were you 5 talking about? 6 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 8 MS. HARGIS: Diane will present that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And about when do you 10 perceive that happening? 11 MS. HARGIS: I think we have our -- we have a 12 calendar, so I'm probably going to get it wrong. I think 13 we're supposed to meet the first time on the -- I don't have 14 the calendar in front of me. I think it's -- it's that week. 15 Do you have it? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Monday, let's make sure 17 we have a calendar that we go through so we can plan out -- 18 these are important votes; make sure we're all here. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't want to get us 20 so -- you know, get in a time crunch, like tomorrow we're 21 going to be setting tax rates, and we still haven't done 22 everything we need to do with the budget. I don't want to 23 get too far in that. 24 MS. HARGIS: I think she's got the first hearing on 25 the -- 8-18-09 bwk 136 1 JUDGE TINLEY: 9-14. 2 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, at our regular meeting, and then 3 the second one. We only have to have one, because we're not 4 going over the effective rate. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that? Like, 60 days 6 before, something like that? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fourteen. Minus 10 minutes, 30 8 seconds. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 32 seconds. 10 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, after the first public hearing, 11 you have actually not sooner than three days, not greater 12 than 14, you have to meet. It's -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, we've got -- we've allowed 14 for a second public hearing on 9-21. 15 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, if we have to have it. Not 16 sooner than three, but we've got it -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And on the 28th, which will be our 18 last meeting -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What date? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 14th is the first public hearing. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Second public hearing on the 21st, 23 if necessary. Adoption of tax rate on the 28th. 24 MS. HARGIS: You have to adopt the tax rate -- the 25 budget first, and then the tax rate, I think. There's a lot 8-18-09 bwk 137 1 of publications and advertisements that have to go in for 2 both, and so I will try to e-mail all of you, or put in your 3 boxes as well, some options, try to refine this down a little 4 bit more. Maybe take off some of the other items and put 5 them in the small ones, put them back in the regular budget, 6 see how we come out. What about -- I mean, one of the things 7 is Tim's cars could -- I mean, I guess I should ask, would 8 y'all prefer he just buy two little trucks? Two little used 9 trucks? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think there's an issue 11 whether or not you can buy a little one cheaper than you can 12 a big one, seriously. But we need -- 13 MS. HARGIS: Shall I send him out to see? I'll 14 send him out to get -- 15 MS. MABRY: I was with Tim when he got his first 16 quotes last week, and for two F-150's, they quoted him 21 a 17 piece. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: An F-150 isn't a big truck any 19 more. It's about, like -- well, it's like -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not expensive, really. 21 Trying to get rid of them. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're like -- there's a big 23 difference between what a full-size truck used to be. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's a whole lot of 25 difference between an F-150 two-wheel drive, extended cab, 8-18-09 bwk 138 1 and a four-wheel drive -- four-door F-250 with four-wheel 2 drive. 3 MS. HARGIS: Keep in mind, our bidding now is 4 50,000, not 25,000, so he's able to go out and buy -- you 5 know, we can buy things locally if we want. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Price, okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, gentlemen? Let's 8 call it a day. We're adjourned. 9 MS. HARGIS: Thank you. 10 (Budget workshop adjourned at 4:41 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 17 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 18 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 19 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 9th day of September, 20 2009. 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 8-18-09 bwk