1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, October 26, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X October 26, 2009 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 6 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 4 request for permission to use the courthouse parking lot/lawn to host the 6th annual Hill 5 Country Cowboy Breakfast on January 15, 2010 8 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on request to approve nomination of Roger "Corey" 7 Walters to fill the current vacancy on the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board 11 8 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 9 review and acknowledge receipt of the annual commissary audit to ensure compliance with 10 Chapter 351.0415, Local Government Code 13 11 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve a private road name in Precinct 1 15 12 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 13 go out for proposals to purchase a used 66" single-drum vibratory compactor 16 14 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 15 adopt Kerr County policy relating to acceptance of cash from citizens in payment of fines, fees, 16 or other payments 20 17 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize and/or approve preliminary planning, 18 evaluation, and other preconstruction activities or procedures in connection with proposed Law 19 Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation Building 35 20 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to award bid for Kerr County 2009-2010 employees 21 health benefits 36 22 1.7 Presentation from Steve Soliz on the San Antonio AirLIFE's Guardian Angel plan 59 23 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 24 submit an application to Texas Water Development Board for flood protection planning grant for 25 Center Point/East Kerr County and other areas of Kerr County as may be desirable 73 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) October 26, 2009 2 PAGE 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 update and status report of the jail docket/ direct file/fast track 81 4 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 5 concerning appeal from Kerr County to Texas Water Development Board on DFC's set by GMA-9 6 for the Edwards-Trinity (Plateau), Ellenberger, and Hickory Aquifers 129 7 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve contracts with KEDF, K'Star, CASA, Comfort VFD, Elm Pass VFD, Center Point VFD, 9 Castle Lake VFD, Mountain Home VFD, Hunt VFD, Ingram VFD, and Tierra Linda VFD; allow County 10 Judge to sign same 130 11 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to establish Local Data Advisory Board pursuant to 12 S.B. 1061 131 13 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on elected official appointment 134 14 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 15 proposed Community Collaborative Agreement between Hill Country Council on Alcohol and 16 Drug Abuse and Kerr County Court 143 17 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on policy to coordinate all community service 18 programs to provide liability/loss protection for Kerr County 146 19 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 20 regarding policies & procedures, software and payment plan configuration and coordination for 21 court compliance and fee officers (Executive Session if needed) 148 22 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 23 possible sale, lease, or other disposition of County-owned real property (Executive Session) --- 24 4.1 Pay Bills 185 25 4.2 Budget Amendments 190 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) October 26, 2009 2 PAGE 4.3 Late Bills --- 3 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 191 4 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 192 5 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 196 6 --- Adjourned 203 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, October 26, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, October the 26th, 2009, at 9 a.m. It 11 is that time now. If you would please stand and join me in a 12 moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 15 any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard 16 on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to 17 come forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. 18 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that you 19 fill out a participation form. They should be located at the 20 rear of the room. If they're not there, or for some reason 21 you don't fill one out, and we get to an agenda item that you 22 wish to be heard on, get my attention in some manner and I'll 23 see that you do have the opportunity to be heard. But at 24 this time, if there's any member of the public that wishes to 25 be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come 10-26-09 6 1 forward and tell us what's on your mind at this time. Seeing 2 no one coming forward, we will move on. First off, I'd like 3 to offer my congratulations to our County Attorney, Rex 4 Emerson, on his appointment by Governor Perry to the 198th 5 District Court bench. We're sorry to lose you here, but know 6 you'll do an outstanding job upstairs handling those cases up 7 there, and -- and the duties that you will have as District 8 Judge. Congratulations, Rex. 9 (Applause.) 10 MR. EMERSON: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Also, the Kerr County Fair just 12 concluded this past weekend. I was out there for a while; 13 looked like there was a pretty decent crowd. Everyone seemed 14 to be having a good time. I didn't hear any reports about 15 any major faux pas that -- either from the standpoint of 16 security or incidents or issues with facilities or the 17 grounds out there, so that's always good news. And, once 18 again, as best I could tell, we had a successful year for the 19 Kerr County Fair. Commissioner Baldwin, what do you have for 20 us this morning? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say 22 congratulations to Rex as well. I didn't realize he had such 23 a fan -- group of fans out there in public until it actually 24 happened. And, you know, it always -- always upsets me a 25 little bit when somebody -- somebody's more popular than I 10-26-09 7 1 am, or gets more votes than I do, or gets more press than I 2 do. It's just not fair and it's not right. However, I'm 3 finding out the guy's a giant in my precinct, and we're real 4 proud of him and excited for him, and excited for the 198th 5 District as well, 'cause I know Rex will do things that 6 haven't been done in a long time. And we're happy for him 7 and his family. That's all. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have to echo that, 10 Judge. Congratulations to Rex; he's done a fine job as 11 County Attorney, and he goes upstairs with mixed emotions, as 12 far as I'm concerned, because we're going to miss him here. 13 I really do appreciate the support over the years that Rex 14 has given Commissioners Court. He's guided us. He's slapped 15 our hands when he thought we were going down the wrong 16 direction. He's given us advice and counsel, and he's always 17 responded to the needs of this Court, and for that I'm 18 grateful. Thank you, Rex, and congratulations. Great career 19 ahead of you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just ditto what's been said 22 about Rex, and let's get on with the work today. That's it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Same deal. I tell you, I 24 don't know that -- from my past experience of Commissioners 25 Court, we've never had anybody be responsive like Rex has. 10-26-09 8 1 If you ask a question, you get an answer, and it's fair and 2 honest and straight down the line, and I think that'll carry 3 upstairs. And I know his work ethic is great, and look 4 forward to having him up there. But I do -- do think we're 5 going to miss him. Whoever comes along next has got big 6 shoes to fill. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder if we have an open 9 door upstairs now. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Boy. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have to ask that after -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- after Friday. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure you don't want to ask 15 it now? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The door's open if you have the 17 code. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's get on with our agenda, 20 if we might. The first item on the agenda is to consider, 21 discuss, and take appropriate action on request for 22 permission to use the courthouse parking lot and lawn to host 23 the 6th annual Hill Country Cowboy Breakfast on January 15th, 24 2010, from 6 a.m. to 8 a.m. And we've got an august 25 delegation here today; Jeff Talarico, Brian Bondy, and Johnna 10-26-09 9 1 Wade. Who's going to take the lead on this, gang? 2 MR. TALARICO: Well, now, I probably should, I 3 guess, since I represent all three organizations. 4 MR. BONDY: I'm not surprised. 5 MR. TALARICO: Yeah, well, that's the way it goes. 6 Again, we're here to request to use the courthouse lawn and 7 parking lot for January the 15th for the Cowboy Breakfast. 8 It has gone over extremely well, as you all know, for the 9 last two years that we've been there, and we just hope that 10 we can continue with that. I've also been asked by the 11 Commissioner to allow Johnna to say something for the record, 12 so the mic is yours. 13 MS. WADE: We just would like to ask you again to 14 use the facilities, and we would like to have you back in 15 some of our contests that you participated in last year. 16 So -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin wanted to know 18 if he could bring his own goat this year. (Laughter.) 19 MR. TALARICO: That probably would be helpful. 20 That way we don't have to go out and rent some. As long as 21 it's milking. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're speechless? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm here to work. 25 MR. TALARICO: I think Mr. Bondy had something to 10-26-09 10 1 add as well. 2 MR. BONDY: Well, just, gentlemen, we appreciate 3 the support that you've given the breakfast over the last 4 couple years, especially since we've been on the courthouse 5 grounds. Between the goat milking contest and the cow chip 6 toss, there seems to be a lot of camaraderie that takes 7 place, so much so that the committee has decided to enter a 8 third contest this year. We'll be adding a turkey bowl, 9 which should present itself an opportunity to knock a few 10 pins down with frozen turkeys. We'll see how that goes. 11 (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: While we're at home in our 13 own beds sleeping, y'all are dreaming up this stuff. Or -- 14 MR. BONDY: Yeah. Well, you know, I -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or does this happen at the 16 bar at the Inn of the Hills? 17 MR. BONDY: Well, that's when you and I were 18 talking, that's right. (Laughter.) All in good fun, to kick 19 off the District Livestock Show season. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as I don't get paired 21 with Chuck Coleman to milk goats again, 'cause he's the one 22 that dropped the cup and spilled all the milk, or we'd have 23 won two years ago. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Sour grapes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. Whine, whine, 10-26-09 11 1 whine. I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 5 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 11 folks for being here with us. 12 MS. WADE: Thank you. 13 MR. TALARICO: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Looking forward to a fun time with 15 you here in a couple of months. Let's go to Item 2, if we 16 might. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 17 request to approve the nomination of Roger "Corey" Walters to 18 fill the current vacancy on the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport 19 Board. I put this matter on the agenda at the request of the 20 president of the Airport Board. They -- they do a nomination 21 process, present their desired nominee to both the Court and 22 the City Council, and it's -- I assume it's going to be 23 before the City Council tomorrow night. And -- but it's here 24 today. It's the one nominee that -- that the Airport Board 25 has selected to put before us after interviewing -- I think 10-26-09 12 1 there were a total of three, maybe more. I don't know. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They interviewed four. 3 They had 10 applications, I think, totally. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then they vetted that 6 down to four and interviewed four, and then forwarded to us 7 the selection. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's after their process, and 9 they've put that individual's name forward, Mr. Walters. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will second that motion. 12 Mr. Walters is a longtime citizen, resident of Kerr County; 13 family ties go way, way back, and he has a deep interest in 14 the airport, is an aircraft owner, and I think he will do a 15 good job. Pleasure to second it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing I'd like to add. I 17 think one of the -- from talking with Airport Board President 18 Steve King a little bit about their thought process, one of 19 the things that they really were looking for, and Mr. Walters 20 brings to the table, is real estate development experience. 21 That's something -- they looked at their board, I know, and 22 kind of looked at what niches they had and didn't have. And 23 I know there were some people that were certainly very 24 qualified from the aeronautical background, but they went 25 with someone because this was a void that they had, and they 10-26-09 13 1 thought that is possibly the most important thing going 2 forward on the Airport Board, as property is developing, how 3 to bring in that side. So, I really applaud them for, you 4 know, looking at the big picture, and think they made a 5 really good choice. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You got some real fine people on 7 that board. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a very good board. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 10 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 16 to Item 4, if we might; consider, discuss, take appropriate 17 action to review and acknowledge the receipt of the annual 18 commissary audit to insure compliance with Chapter 351.0415 19 of the Local Government Code. 20 MS. MABRY: Good morning. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning, Tess. 23 MS. MABRY: The audit of the commissary this year 24 went really, really well. We are going to miss Nancy Fees 25 and her diligence in counting our inventory and making sure 10-26-09 14 1 that the commissary runs as well as it does. I want to thank 2 Sheriff Hierholzer for allowing me to come in and audit. And 3 I had very good cooperation and help, and we got in there and 4 got it done, and there were only very minor clerical errors. 5 And the one good highlight that -- I just had something that 6 I really want to highlight to you, that inventory shrinkage 7 has been reduced to $50. So, it's fabulous. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's over a period of how long? 9 MS. MABRY: That is over the last year. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. MABRY: The prior year it was approximately 12 500, and it's been reduced to 50, so that's a significant 13 change there. So, are there any questions? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're asking to us merely 15 acknowledge receipt? 16 MS. MABRY: Yes, sir. Just acknowledge receipt of 17 the commissary audit. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you need an order? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Acknowledge receipt. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Wouldn't hurt. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 24 acknowledge receipt of the -- of the commissary audit. 25 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 10-26-09 15 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. The motion 4 does carry. Thank you, Ms. Mabry. 5 MS. MABRY: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 5; to consider, 7 discuss, and take appropriate action to approve private road 8 name. Mr. Odom? 9 MR. ODOM: Good morning. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 11 MR. ODOM: We have a request to make a private 12 road, 4010 North, be named Texas Troubadour Road North. 13 Mr. Pruneda -- Pruneda has applied to 911, and that has been 14 approved. There was one person on this road. 911 contacted 15 them. They had no problems naming this road as such. At 16 this time, we ask the Court for their approval of the name 17 Texas Troubadour Road North. This road is a privately 18 maintained road. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 20 Is that Dr. Pruneda out Harper Road? 21 MR. ODOM: I believe so. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Little -- I think 23 this is cute. Just a little background. His dad was a Texas 24 troubadour with the Ernest Tubbs show for 20 years or so, and 25 it's just kind of honoring his dad and his work and 10-26-09 16 1 everything. That's kind of cool. I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to take a really 7 long sign to write that on. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Glad it's not bumper 9 stickers. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 11 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 16 to Item 6; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to go 17 out for proposals to purchase a used 66-inch single drum 18 vibratory compactor. Mr. Odom? 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. What we have in our budget 20 request was a steel wheel, a single drum. Looking at it, I 21 have missed that number. Steel has gone up. That yellow 22 paint went up a lot of money, and so the way to make this 23 work, to make all of it work, looks like we can go with a 24 used piece of equipment that I can come closer to that 25 number. Where I had 68,000, they're talking about 86,000. 10-26-09 17 1 So, I think that we can come closer to our number if we go 2 with something with low -- low hours. So, at this time, I'd 3 ask the Court for their approval to proceed with the proposal 4 process for a used 66 single drum vibratory compactor, and 5 then we will come back on Monday, November the 23rd, at 6 10 a.m., to open, read, and award the proposal to purchase 7 used compactor. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No question about what you want 9 to do. The question I have is, is this coming out of the 10 bond issue? 11 MR. ODOM: I -- is it the bond or the capital 12 outlay? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or capital outlay? 14 MS. HARGIS: We have some out of both right now. 15 MR. ODOM: Some of both. And, I'm sorry, I don't 16 recall offhand. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I don't want to go 18 out for bid on something that we have -- we haven't signed 19 up. We haven't finalized that yet. We're -- I just want to 20 make sure we're not getting ahead of ourselves. 21 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I think this one is actually in 22 the capital. We had 132,000 in the capital part. 23 MR. ODOM: I believe so. 24 MS. HARGIS: Remember, we moved some. We kind of 25 moved a little bit into the loan a little bit, which left us 10-26-09 18 1 capital. So, I think this is the one that stayed in the 2 capital side. 3 MR. ODOM: I believe she's correct on that. 4 Thinking about it now, that I wouldn't do anything -- I would 5 have a bid out past December if I had something. I think 6 that there were three items, I believe, and this was one of 7 them, that was in our 15-611-570, capital outlay. So, we 8 have the money to do that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as it's out of that 10 fund, I move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 13 indicated. Question or discussion? Ms. Hargis, we are in a 14 position to fund that? 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, by that time, yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Further question or 17 discussion? When did -- when did the yellow iron suddenly 18 decide to make -- 19 MR. ODOM: You ought to see the yellow iron 20 stacking up in the yards now. It's -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- 22 MR. ODOM: A lot of the jobs have -- people are 23 renting now or leasing. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. ODOM: And what's happening is that they're not 10-26-09 19 1 getting -- this stimulus money is not out there yet to keep a 2 lot of these things going. Engineering's taking up the time 3 and the money. So, a lot of these contractors are just 4 sitting them back in the yards. They're waiting. So -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I would have thought under 6 those circumstances, the cost on the yellow iron would -- 7 would remain soft. 8 MR. ODOM: It is coming down, and that -- it has 9 helped us tremendously on our bid process. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. ODOM: But it's steel. What has happened is 12 that they've had this stuff, and it's already built, and 13 you're getting the higher cost for new stuff right now. And 14 what they're wanting to do is unload their inventory. So, 15 what we'll look at is something that's used with low hours on 16 it, and I think we can come in -- we've come in very, very 17 well with everything so far. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That stuff's going to be 20 cheaper than the new for a while. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. And folks 22 that don't have work to do because it's not ready to go yet 23 are likely to want to get rid of that. 24 MR. ODOM: It's called cash flow. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 10-26-09 20 1 MR. ODOM: And they're -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Non-operating yellow iron. 3 MR. ODOM: Non-operating, so they're unloading 4 stuff. If it's on a lease, they let it take it back. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You got a pretty tight set of 6 specs. I think this ought to get you to zero in on some 7 stuff pretty quick. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, we believe so. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to Item 8, 17 if we might; consider, discuss, take appropriate action -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, can we delay that? 19 We're waiting on Mr. Groves to come in from San Antonio. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll hold off on Item 8. 21 Let's go to Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 22 action to adopt Kerr County policies relating to acceptance 23 of cash from citizens in payment of fines, fees, or other 24 payments. I put this on the agenda as a result of some 25 questions that have arisen about whether or not we can -- we 10-26-09 21 1 can, for our purposes, decline to take cash, but on the other 2 side of the equation, where we have citizens who come in that 3 want to pay their fine or their fee or -- or whatever the 4 cost may be with cash money. And so I put that on the agenda 5 to open it up for discussion. Personally, I don't think we 6 can refuse cash. Now, it may be more convenient for us, and 7 in terms of auditing controls, not to have to handle cash. 8 But I -- I would be inclined to -- if I were in the private 9 sector representing an individual who had tendered cash and 10 got refused, I think I'd petition to say my debt's clear if 11 they refused to take it, legal and lawful money of the United 12 States of America. What sayeth the County Attorney? That's 13 my opinion. Now we'll ask the legal expert. 14 MR. EMERSON: Judge, we actually drafted a memo to 15 the Court, I guess, three or four weeks ago on that issue, 16 and given the transition that we're in, I'll defer to 17 Ms. Bailey for the answer. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MS. BAILEY: We did some research, and our 20 conclusion is that any department can determine how they deal 21 with their own cash legally. They can -- they can accept or 22 not accept whatever they choose, in whatever form they 23 choose. We did find that there is a provision in the law 24 that says that the Auditor has the authority to set policy 25 with regard to receipts and so forth. There's no case law 10-26-09 22 1 that interprets that, but it could be interpreted to mean 2 that the Auditor could establish policies for the county that 3 says either you will only take checks or money orders, or you 4 will take cash, but that is untested. But the Auditor does 5 have the authority to make policy for the county with respect 6 to money. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know that the Judge 8 and I have had two gentlemen come to our office down here to 9 complain that the County will not take his -- their cash for 10 their payment. I mean, they came here with the money to pay 11 their debt that they've been ordered to pay, and they were 12 refused, and so they -- this -- the last guy, really nice 13 young man, very smart, he simply walked several blocks down 14 the street and found him a grocery store to where he could 15 buy him a money order, and walked back and made his payment. 16 And very angry about that, and I don't blame him a bit. But, 17 you know, it's -- it's American legal tender, and I just 18 don't get it. I just don't understand. I can't work it in 19 my mind how we, as a government entity, can deny anybody to 20 -- they're here to pay their debt that they've been ordered 21 to pay with a legal tender. It says legal tender on it. I 22 don't get it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can understand the -- the 24 concerns, perhaps, of those who follow audits and do audit 25 trails, but I agree that if a person comes in here and the 10-26-09 23 1 only means of paying their obligation is the cash that they 2 have in pocket, and they've made the effort to do that and 3 they're here with the money to do that, I can see no valid 4 reason why we would turn them down. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, when you stop and consider 7 that we're a service organization and we work for the 8 taxpayers, and we're here to serve these people, we're not 9 here to, you know, impose our preference on them because it's 10 more convenient for us, and if they -- they're making the 11 effort to comply with their obligation, as long as it's 12 lawful, I think -- I think we're duly bound to take it. Now, 13 you may have another take on it, Ms. Hargis, and I understand 14 from the standpoint of the bean counters, that it's a whole 15 lot easier to -- to not have cash. But if you got a proper 16 trail of -- of receipts and other documentation, you know, 17 there's a trail there for you. 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, there is the problem, okay? 19 Cash is really not traceable. And -- and what we have seen 20 in my profession through the years is that a lot of times, 21 those receipts will be misplaced, and if they're misplaced, 22 there's no way to trace them. We've had several occasions 23 where we have had to trace money orders. People have said 24 they paid their fines; they didn't get put in our system 25 correctly. That happens. You know, I mean, and it's not so 10-26-09 24 1 much that I'm as concerned -- I am concerned about fraud with 2 cash, but I'm not as much concerned about that as I am that 3 the person coming in to pay that fine or fee, they have to 4 keep that receipt in case we lose the receipt, which we could 5 do. And we've had an occasion where we've had to trace 6 receipts to make sure someone's paid something. If we don't 7 have the proper receipt or, you know, it's been passed -- 8 we've actually had an occasion, even in the Collection 9 Department, where somebody did pay. We didn't have a record 10 of it. It was -- and then we had to trace it. And the only 11 way we were able to trace it was because we had the money 12 order. 13 And I'm not saying that we aren't pretty tight 14 around here with our receipts in both clerks' offices, but 15 things like this do happen. I'm more concerned that that 16 person gets their credit; it's in our system. You know, 17 we've had problems with our software as well, you know, 18 putting it in the software, getting that person credited, and 19 it popping up and saying that they didn't pay. So, if all 20 they have is that piece of paper -- and, unfortunately, like 21 most of us, we put that -- you know, guys put it in their 22 wallet, women put it in their purse, and then it gets thrown 23 way. So, it's cash. You don't have anything else to prove. 24 You know, you don't have a money order receipt; you don't 25 have anything. So, there are other things in consideration 10-26-09 25 1 here, not just the fact that we have cash -- we have cash in 2 the drawer. That's really -- you know, I don't like that, 3 but that's not my real problem. My real problem is to make 4 sure that the person gets credit. It costs $1.50 to get a 5 money order pretty much, maybe $2. We do have a bank within 6 two blocks of here. 7 I think if we don't take cash, perhaps we're going 8 to have to post it and things of that nature. That's my 9 biggest concern, is that the individual gets the credit and 10 we know it's properly in our system. You know, I'd like to 11 say we're foolproof, but we're not, and this is some of the 12 mistakes that we're finding. So, I want -- I want us to 13 consider that. And I think it's something we -- maybe we 14 need to study and look at. You know, I was made -- apprized 15 of this before I, you know, came here this morning, that this 16 would be on the agenda, so I had a little bit of time to 17 think about it. But that's the biggest problem with cash, is 18 that it's the person paying the cash that ends up somehow 19 down the line with a problem. We don't end up with a 20 problem, but they do. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would imagine, 22 Ms. Hargis, if you check the records all the way back as far 23 as you choose to go, you'll find that we probably have made 24 that mistake with respect to not only cash, but with money 25 orders, with checks, with anything else that we have, because 10-26-09 26 1 there's a human element involved. And if the employee gets 2 distracted, takes the money or takes the cash, takes the 3 money order, whatever, and gets distracted and doesn't finish 4 that particular transaction, then that individual who made it 5 -- paid -- made the payment in good faith leaves thinking 6 everything's okay, only to find out later he gets a letter 7 from the County. It can happen. 8 MS. HARGIS: It can. But with a money order -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cash is not the issue. It 10 can happen. 11 MS. HARGIS: Well, it can, but with the money 12 order, he has the stub of the money order, and we do trace 13 that. The other -- so, I'm not going to encourage that we 14 take a whole lot of cash in this building, because it is a 15 problem. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The issue, I don't think, is whether 17 we encourage it. The issue, I think, is whether or not we 18 refuse it, and that's my concern. It's not a -- it's not a 19 tested item here. It occurs to me that if we lose a receipt, 20 that's our problem, and -- and that's failure on our part. 21 It occurs to me also that we could develop a system whereby, 22 when that cash is turned in to whomever, that there be 23 corresponding receipts furnished with it in order that there 24 might be, along with whatever that deposit item is, something 25 to verify where that cash came from, with a central 10-26-09 27 1 depository for those receipts when it's turned in, and then 2 if there's a question or an issue about whether or not credit 3 was given on a system, you've got some record to go to. If 4 we rely on each individual office and we have to go back 5 months or years to chase something, that's certainly not 6 going to be too efficient, but as that cash goes forward 7 as-is and is deposited in the bank, if there's a paper trail 8 that comes with it in the form of a receipt, just like if it 9 were a money order, it occurs to me that -- that you got a 10 way of documenting that, and you got one central depository 11 or some other similar system that can be devised in order 12 that we're not telling the public that we serve that we're 13 not going to take their money that's good at the grocery 14 store, that's good at the utility company, that's good at the 15 department store, that's good anywhere they go, that it's not 16 good here in Kerr County. And that just rubs against my 17 grain, I'm sorry. 18 MS. HARGIS: Well, I understand that. I do. But I 19 do understand, too, that I -- the problem with cash -- and 20 most counties are coming totally away from cash because of -- 21 of not only the receipt situation, but then you get into the 22 fraud situation, and that is one of the reasons why 23 everybody's going away from the cash. And we really haven't 24 -- I think in the clerk's office, she has had this money 25 order system where, the first time up, a person comes in; if 10-26-09 28 1 they're on a payment plan, Jannett has told me she accepts 2 cash. But they tell that person the next time they come in 3 that they need to get a money order. You know, I think 4 that's fair. If you -- if you notify them up front that the 5 next time you come, we want you to have a money order rather 6 than cash, and I think -- I don't know the exact 7 circumstances of either of these cases, not being here last 8 week, so I can't -- you know, I can't voice an opinion. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that probably is 10 fair. If they come in one time and you inform them that, 11 yes, we'll take the cash this time, but next time you come -- 12 I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Number two, 13 though, I really don't care what other counties do. I 14 couldn't care less. 15 MS. HARGIS: I understand. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't base our actions on 17 what they do in Hood County. 18 MS. HARGIS: I understand that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't even like them. 20 (Laughter.) 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The point I'm trying to make -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish. And -- but 23 do we not take any cash anywhere in the county system? 24 MS. HARGIS: Very rarely. You collect cash? 25 MS. UECKER: Yes, ma'am. And most counties are not 10-26-09 29 1 going to the no-cash system. First of all, when this 2 defendant comes in, that's his option to pay cash, so he's 3 taking that chance. His product that he's getting for that 4 cash is a receipt. And we can print them a thousand receipts 5 for the same payment; it's in the system. If he loses that 6 receipt... We have not had any problem with that, and, you 7 know, I'm not going to refuse to take cash under any 8 circumstances. I don't care what the policy is. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the Tax Office? 10 MS. BOLIN: We take cash coming and going, and I'm 11 not going to refuse the cash. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If you have a taxpayer come in 13 wanting to pay their taxes, they're not real happy about 14 paying taxes. If you tell them you -- 15 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. If I tell them I'm not taking 16 your cash -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go get a money order? I 18 don't think so. 19 MS. BOLIN: No, I will continue to take cash. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Sheriff? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There -- there are instances 22 -- and I do refuse cash in a lot of cases. One is money 23 being mailed in, especially when I'm running 150 inmates, and 24 you'll get them mailing in $500 for that inmate's commissary 25 account or something. I don't allow cash to be mailed in, 10-26-09 30 1 the reason being, I've had too many times where, in the past 2 when we did try it a couple times, where they claimed they 3 mailed in $500, but we only sent them a receipt back for 4 $250, and we stole their other $250. So, for that reason, I 5 don't take cash coming in through the mail. It has to be 6 money order or cashier's check that is traceable to prove the 7 amount they mailed in, 'cause they're not getting a receipt 8 immediately. 9 MS. UECKER: But that's not county money that goes 10 into their account. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's profit margins in 12 there and all that that can be. You know, or it may be that 13 we get somebody arrested out of Hood County, and Hood County 14 wants a -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we throw the book at 16 them. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- $600 fine or whatever is 18 their bond amount. We'll make sure that that's in a money 19 order, 'cause it's going to be made out to Hood County and 20 sent straight to them to where we're not dealing with that. 21 So, you know, the only thing I'm saying is there's going to 22 be times, especially in my department, that we refuse cash. 23 Now, if somebody comes in, gets fingerprinted or something 24 and wants to pay to have their fingerprints done, we'll take 25 cash for that. But -- 10-26-09 31 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's your option to do so. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not something we 4 should meddle with. You have the experience with it. You do 5 it however you need to do it. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good. That's all I'm asking, 7 is that it's an option. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wholly different situation. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wholly different situation. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're satisfying an 11 obligation to the county. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 13 MS. PIEPER: How is that a wholly different 14 situation -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 16 MS. PIEPER: -- than if they come in to my office? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is it different? 18 MS. PIEPER: No -- yeah. How is it different? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One, it's coming in through the 20 mail. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm talking about the 22 Sheriff's situation. Taking cash in the commissary account 23 is different than someone walking into your office or in the 24 Tax Office or the Clerk's office to settle an obligation that 25 they have with the County. That's a wholly different 10-26-09 32 1 operation -- wholly different situation. 2 MS. PIEPER: We get money through the mail as well. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure you do. 4 MS. PIEPER: But one gentleman that came in -- just 5 for history, the one gentleman that came in that was upset 6 because he was sent away to get a money order has been in our 7 system for four years. Every couple of months, he gets 8 popped for drug charges, and I guess rather than than go out 9 and buy him a car, he spends his money on drugs, which that's 10 his choice. So, he -- you know, the -- he had a whole month 11 since his previous payment to get a money order, and he lives 12 way out 16 South, so I don't know how he got into town, but 13 in the process from his house to the courthouse, he passed 14 several stores to get a money order. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The point is, Ms. Pieper, I don't 16 think he has an obligation to buy a money order to satisfy a 17 debt to this county. Now, you know, if they had a history of 18 counterfeiting, I might be a little concerned about his 19 money, that it was funny money. But as long as it's good 20 money, I think we're obliged to take it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you take any cash in your 22 office, in any of your departments? 23 MS. PIEPER: Oh, yes. It's just the criminal court 24 that I take the money orders. Now, you know, on their first 25 court date, if they want to bring in a -- cash or a check or 10-26-09 33 1 debit card or credit card or whatever, that's fine. But if 2 they're set up on a payment plan after that point, then 3 they're notified that, you know, your next payment needs to 4 be with a cashier's check or money order, or debit or credit 5 cards. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, a criminal's cash is not 7 as good as my cash? Wait a minute, let me restate -- 8 MS. PIEPER: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You were posing the question for me, 10 Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you go ahead, 12 'cause I just stepped all over myself. (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, to me, this 14 issue is partly -- we can encourage them to pay with a money 15 order or cashier's check or whatever, but if you're -- and I 16 presume these fines are coming from judges, and if the Judge 17 says you owe $500, I don't think that order says you owe $500 18 plus money order fees. I think they owe $500. And if they 19 choose to pay it in a way where they -- otherwise, I think 20 we'd be obligated to deduct the cost from the fine. I don't 21 think -- then that's contrary to what the Judge did. That 22 seems weird to me. I don't think that it's that big of a 23 problem. I think we just accept it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What do we do here, gentlemen? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we -- 10-26-09 34 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Let them study it a little bit? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we go to the drawing 3 board and draft the policy that we'd like to discuss and act 4 on, as opposed to just a notion of it? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then act on something 7 that's solid? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like your drafting 9 skills -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go, Bill. Go get 'em, 11 buddy. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- are coming to the fore. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, Judge, I didn't 14 volunteer, but with your good guidance and counsel, we'll do 15 that, won't we? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: How'd I get pulled into this deal? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me that most of the 18 elected officials are going to have the option to kind of do 19 like they want to. When it really gets right down to it, 20 Rusty has a situation to where he's not going to accept it 21 under certain circumstances. It seems that Jannett has some 22 of the same thing. You know, certain people that you can't 23 take cash from through the mail. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But -- but, again, that's a 25 distinction. We're talking about people satisfying their 10-26-09 35 1 obligation to Kerr County, as opposed to supplying money to a 2 prisoner at the jail. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. And so, you know, I 4 totally agree with the cash is legal tender and it should be 5 accepted, but there are instances that may -- may force an 6 issue to be paid in some different form. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I have no problem with 8 encouraging people who have obligations to the county to pay 9 them with -- in some medium that is well documented, such as 10 a money order or cashier's check, something along that line. 11 But -- but my problem is with the outright refusal to accept 12 cash. I have -- I have a serious question whether we can 13 even do that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree with your 15 feeling, Judge. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I guess Bill and I are 17 going to work on that. Okay, let's move to -- move to Item 18 11, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 19 authorize and/or approve preliminary planning, evaluation, 20 other preconstruction activities or procedures in connection 21 with proposed Law Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation building, 22 including, but not limited to, approval of floor plans and/or 23 specifications, authorizing appropriate bids and/or 24 construction documents, and advertising for bids and/or 25 proposals for various aspects for the construction of the 10-26-09 36 1 building and related improvements. Gentlemen, I hate to tell 2 you, but you're going to see that long agenda item probably 3 on every agenda until we get that building underway. 4 Let me give you a little progress report on where 5 we are now. Mr. Lewis has finalized a -- a proposed floor 6 plan and some sample elevations. I -- I think I provided 7 some of you an opportunity to look at it. Maybe not. I'll 8 just pass it around. But what he has done, he has contacted 9 the stakeholders, the Sheriff and the Probation Department, 10 Adult Probation, asking for their final comments and urging 11 them to -- if they got any questions or concerns about it, to 12 be quick about their responses, because we're trying to 13 maintain this thing on a fast track. And he -- he is working 14 also on a -- on the site plan with the City. There's going 15 to be permitting required there. There's some drainage 16 issues that they're currently working with the City. They're 17 also doing soil compacting studies in order that they can 18 move forward with the foundation aspects on it. So, they're 19 working, and they're trying to get this thing to a final 20 phase where they can start with their final plans and 21 construction documents. So, that's where we are on that. 22 Any questions from any of you? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to -- move 25 back, let me say, to Item 3; consider, discuss, and take 10-26-09 37 1 appropriate action to award the bid for Kerr County 2009-10 2 employees health benefits. That's actually 2010, since we're 3 on a calendar year basis with that one. Ms. Hyde? 4 Mr. Looney is here with us here today. Good to see you, sir. 5 MR. LOONEY: Thank you, Judge. I appreciate your 6 letting me be a little late this morning. The weather is a 7 little nasty out. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Raining in San Antonio? 9 MR. LOONEY: It was -- it was raining all the way. 10 Started raining about 2:30 last night. So -- I don't want to 11 forget you, Cheryl. 12 THE CLERK: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't forget Cheryl. 14 MR. LOONEY: You have a crowd this morning, anyway. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They heard you were coming, 16 and -- 17 MR. LOONEY: Oh, no. They thought Hood County was 18 coming; they wanted to see them get hung in public. It's 19 been a -- Judge and Commissioners, thank you again. It's 20 been quite a negotiation this time -- this year. We've had 21 some circumstances occur that were a little bit out of our 22 control that caused us to go through more extensive 23 evaluations and examinations than we've done in the past. 24 Our current third-party administrator decided that they were 25 no longer going to administer claims for group medical 10-26-09 38 1 claims, so they are going -- they're still in the business. 2 They intend to stay in the business -- is that Hood County? 3 (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Close. 5 MR. LOONEY: But that, and our -- our political 6 arena that we're dealing with nowadays has had a lot of -- of 7 nervous people in the insurance industry overall. So, we 8 started off with doing our negotiations with our current 9 provider, since they had a three-year contract, and they 10 informed us that they were no longer going to be providing 11 that service. So, we had a much more extensive RFP process. 12 To give you an example of what we do, under Exhibit 1, you'll 13 take -- if you'll look under that, under the first exhibit 14 there, it kind of gives you an indication of some of the 15 checklists and some of the identity things that we go through 16 when we're evaluating a -- a proposal. It's just a list and 17 a checklist of the -- of the items that we evaluate when 18 we're looking at proposal information. I thought that -- I 19 guess maybe more than anything else, justifying my existence, 20 to show you some of the things that we go through in this 21 evaluation process so that y'all know that it's not just 22 plucking something out of the air that we feel like might fit 23 well. We went through the process, and that -- that 24 checklist is what we went through, and examination of the 25 different contracts. As you can see, we evaluate not just 10-26-09 39 1 claim payment functions, but all of the other contractual -- 2 underlying contractual agreements that go with the contract 3 itself. That's just an example I wanted you to see. 4 Then under Exhibit 2 is our paid claims for this 5 year through the end of September, to give you an indication 6 of the dollars that we've spent through the end of September. 7 Gives you the cash flow; it shows you what the expenses that 8 we've incurred as a result of medical claims and prescription 9 claims split out in that process. So, you'll see an 10 indication of the dollars that we have expended on behalf of 11 claims. That doesn't include administrative costs; it just 12 includes the claims expenses that are incurred. That's what 13 we have to present to the industry when we go out on an RFP 14 process; that's the information that we give to them for the 15 evaluation process for determining where they want to set the 16 risk for the next year. We give that information to the 17 industry as part of the RFP process, and the result then is 18 under Exhibit 3, which is a spreadsheet that shows we had 19 seven bidders that offered bids. 20 We did not get a renewal from the -- from the FARA 21 organization. I apologize for the small print, as usual, but 22 trying to get -- trying to get it all on one page, as opposed 23 to multiple pages, you have to use the magnifying glass to -- 24 Rex, you need your magnifying glass? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That won't help. 10-26-09 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would help. 2 MR. LOONEY: Well, you know us insurance guys; we 3 got to keep you in the dark a little bit, anyway. Got to put 4 the small print in there. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all running together. 6 MR. LOONEY: Small print. Essentially, what the 7 spreadsheet shows is that we had seven comprehensive 8 proposals. We did not receive any proposals that were on a 9 fully insured basis. Everything was based on staying on a 10 self-funded program. We asked for fully insured rates from 11 the industry. The industry in itself said, you know, you 12 guys are doing great in your self-funded program. Our fully 13 insured rates wouldn't be competitive with where you are 14 today, so we accepted that from them. The green line on the 15 far right is the recommendation that I'd like to make, and 16 it's with the U.M.R. organization, which is a subsidiary of 17 United Health Care industry. United Health Care, as you well 18 know, is one of the largest insurers in the United States. 19 But we're not using United Health Care Insurance Company 20 itself as the administrator. We would be using a third party 21 administrator out of Dallas called U.M.R.. They used to be 22 Fiserv; they used to be benefit planners out of San Antonio, 23 so they have slowly been purchased and merged, and now are 24 into the U.M.R. organization. We've had some experience in 25 dealing with them. They do a good job on claims 10-26-09 41 1 administration. They're fully compatible with the enrollment 2 system that we have currently. 3 They have offered -- as part of their expenses, 4 they have offered to pay all runoff expenses that are 5 incurred as far as claims are concerned running over from 6 FARA, so any claims that were incurred between now and the 7 end of the year, U.M.R. will pick up and pay those claims 8 into the next year at no additional expense to the County, 9 and that saves us somewhere between $25,000 and $30,000 in 10 costs of not having to pay that additional expense. Plus 11 we're able to utilize the United Health Care network, and 12 utilizing those expenses will be reduced and managed under 13 that United Health Care network program. The reason that we 14 like United Health Care at this point in time is because of 15 the negotiated contracts with the physicians and hospitals. 16 They match almost identically with Texas True Choice that's 17 your current P.P.O. provider. We did a geo-match, and we 18 found that there was actually more physicians in the United 19 Health Care network than there are under Texas True Choice 20 network. So, we get an expanded network. 21 We also -- from the stop loss industry, we 22 indicated that we were going to get a reduction in our stop 23 loss premiums as a result of utilizing their network. So, we 24 got a reduction in the -- in our overall expense, and thus in 25 our cost. Based on the spreadsheet information and the fact 10-26-09 42 1 that we had previously recommended and the Auditor had 2 approved the factor of 2.2 million for the county as a result 3 of the county contribution towards the plan, then that is 4 sufficient to meet the demands of this -- of this contract. 5 We have additional funding that we received from employee 6 contributions, and we have some additional funding that we 7 received from the excess reimbursements that we received from 8 our stop loss carrier this year. So, all of that blended 9 together, and we meet our obligation for our budget for next 10 year, so there's no need to increase above the 2.2 million 11 that was recommended earlier. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, I just want to make 13 clear what I'm seeing here, make sure I understand. Does -- 14 am I reading that -- that U.M. -- 15 MR. LOONEY: U.M.R. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- U.M.R. is the lesser of 17 the expected increase than the other companies? 18 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that is -- I am seeing 20 the right number? 21 MR. LOONEY: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, and you said that FARA 23 has decided to disappear? 24 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or no longer serve us. But 10-26-09 43 1 they are over here in this first column, and -- 2 MR. LOONEY: That's just to show you where the 3 current -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To compare? 5 MR. LOONEY: Just a comparison. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Then what 7 about -- goddang. 8 MR. LOONEY: I'd have to put my glasses on. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't believe you do this 10 to us. Mutual of Omaha. I thought they did not function in 11 the state of Texas any longer. 12 MR. LOONEY: Mutual of Omaha has -- does not do 13 medical programs. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah, bingo. 15 MR. LOONEY: They do life and health and other 16 ancillary products, but they don't do -- 17 MS. HYDE: A little bit bigger. 18 MR. LOONEY: Did you enlarge it? 19 MS. HYDE: Little bit. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really can't see it. 21 MR. LOONEY: We look at two factors, Commissioner. 22 One of the factors is a fixed cost function, and the other is 23 the lost claim function. So, our fixed cost function is -- 24 is really -- our increase in fixed costs for this coming year 25 are only about $20,000, $25,000 total. So, our 10-26-09 44 1 administration fees are very close to where they are 2 currently. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 4 MR. LOONEY: The rest of the cost comes actually 5 from claims cost. Now, we are making some -- we'll be making 6 some changes in the administration function. One of them is 7 in the prescription drug program. We've talked about the 8 prescription drug program to some extent. We are currently 9 spending -- about 37 percent of our claims are prescription 10 drugs, which is -- which is very high. We would like that to 11 be somewhere under 20 if we can get it there. One of the 12 things we'll be changing is, we'll be changing our 13 prescription drug management company and moving to a contract 14 that is fully transparent. Transparency nowadays in the 15 prescription drug industry means that we will know exactly 16 what the price of the medication is when we are reimbursing 17 through our third-party administrator, and we will pay a 18 simple fee to receive that lowest price. The expectation is 19 anywhere from 15 to 18 percent overall cost savings by using 20 that transparent model, without having to change our current 21 copayments, without having to change our current formula. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a change? 23 MR. LOONEY: It's a change, and not -- it won't 24 impact the employees, as far as -- because they still have 25 their copayment functions under the plan. But it does impact 10-26-09 45 1 the way we pay for that expense. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're going to be going 4 from Texas True Choice to United -- 5 MR. LOONEY: United Health Care. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: United Health Care. 7 MR. LOONEY: As the network, not as the -- we still 8 are maintaining our, you know, integrity as our self-funded 9 plan, so we still maintain that. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, the network. 11 MR. LOONEY: We're just changing networks. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And that network, you have checked, 13 and the local capability is much broader, or somewhat broader 14 than the Texas True Choice network that we've been on for 15 some time? 16 MR. LOONEY: That's what's the -- that's what the 17 geo access report shows. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the prescription 19 plan, are there any adjustments being made in order to bring 20 those costs down dealing with copays for formulary, 21 non-formulary? 22 MR. LOONEY: Formulary, non-formulary is staying 23 approximately -- the one area that we're really looking at 24 very hard is in the specialty drug area. That's where the -- 25 that's where a lot of our large expenses are coming from. 10-26-09 46 1 And according to what we're seeing between the new PPM 2 manager and our old PPM manager, is that we're getting better 3 discounts from that specialty drug area. That hasn't -- we 4 haven't changed impact on employees yet. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MR. LOONEY: We're still looking at a comparison 7 between the two to see if we can generate enough savings from 8 that cost process to not have to -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The second step. 10 MR. LOONEY: -- not have to shift the cost back to 11 the employee. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So the hope is that, with the 13 new prescription benefit manager and the transparency aspect, 14 that we'll get those costs better contained so that we won't 15 have to increase the copay? 16 MR. LOONEY: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: On some of the specialty drugs? 18 MR. LOONEY: And I got to bring up a really sore 19 subject, because this is -- I'm -- I've -- 20 MS. HYDE: You need to do it this year. I did it 21 last year. 22 MR. LOONEY: I got to go there. When we first used 23 our HRA program, when we first put it into effect, the intent 24 of the HRA program was to reimburse individuals as a result 25 of expenses they have out-of-pocket for their deductibles. 10-26-09 47 1 When we first put in the program, it was not intended to 2 reimburse the copayment for the prescription drug plan. That 3 was not intended to do that. However, when we put it in five 4 years ago, the federal government had not yet put into effect 5 the coding process with pharmacies, with different 6 organizations, where, when you swiped your debit card that 7 you have, that it would allow you to use that debit card for 8 a lot of different services. They didn't have that governing 9 impact to be able to identify the difference between the 10 copayment and the deductible payment. So, when we first put 11 the card in, individuals then were able to use their debit 12 card to pay the copayments on their prescription drugs. So, 13 essentially, our plan has no skin in the game for buying 14 medications, because you can use your card to pay your 15 copays. We have the ability to make that change, but I don't 16 know if you've ever seen a pit bull that had a bone in his 17 mouth, and you wanted to take that bone away from him. You'd 18 probably lose an arm trying to get -- trying to get that bone 19 away from him. And that's kind of the way it is with that 20 debit card and the prescription copayments, because there's a 21 lot of individuals that don't have any out-of-pocket costs as 22 a result of using that. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But the problem with that is, 24 if you use it for copay, it doesn't count towards your 25 deductible. 10-26-09 48 1 MS. HYDE: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you use it for copay on 3 your prescriptions. And we're going to get stuck later on 4 with a higher, you know -- 5 MR. LOONEY: Going to get stuck with an 6 out-of-pocket expense on your deductible expense, if you do 7 have -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That needs to be really 9 driven home to all the employees. 10 MR. LOONEY: We -- Eva has had more than one 11 conversation with employees about how to manage that HRA 12 account, to use it for the intended purpose, which is that 13 deductible process. However, it is still very popular, and 14 it's a very utilized benefit plan, and the employees very 15 much appreciate that HRA program. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a great program. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And in terms of costs to the county 18 to fund that HRA, I'm getting the impression that being able 19 to use that HRA account for prescription copays increases to 20 some extent, but not necessarily a large extent, the County's 21 cost. Am I reading this correctly? 22 MR. LOONEY: That's correct. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: How significant is that increase? 24 MR. LOONEY: Equal to the total copayments made by 25 employees. And that -- the last, you know, claim run that we 10-26-09 49 1 saw, the employees' share on copays was in about the $25,000 2 to $30,000 range. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: On prescription drugs alone? 4 MR. LOONEY: On prescription drugs. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: From the HRA? 6 MR. LOONEY: Well, just in copays. 7 MS. HYDE: Just the copays. 8 MR. LOONEY: We don't know how to compute -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 MS. HYDE: Doctor versus -- 11 MR. LOONEY: -- how much is used, how much is not. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So that would be the max, then, and 13 it's probably certainly not all of it. It's probably -- 14 MR. LOONEY: No. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- maybe 38 percent, which is about 16 the same ratio -- 17 MR. LOONEY: Probably. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- of our total cost. So, I guess 19 for -- for ten grand, are we willing to try to extract the 20 bone from the pit bull's mouth? 21 MS. HYDE: Boy, I hope not. 22 MR. LOONEY: I don't think so. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't want to be the one to 24 reach for it? 25 MR. LOONEY: But I have to bring it up, because, 10-26-09 50 1 you know, that's -- that is a cost factor. And it's -- and 2 it's hopefully the employees we can work with and manage 3 that, because I think a lot of employees would rather spend 4 the $10 for the prescription drug and save the HRA for a 5 rainy day. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you think it's more of an 7 educational mission that we need to do? 8 MR. LOONEY: I think it should be more of an 9 educational mission. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. LOONEY: The other part that is very difficult, 12 you know, for me, because I know that retirees are very 13 sensitive. The retiree costs, the Medicare supplement 14 charges are going up. The plans still provide a good-quality 15 supplement for those retirees, and I think we should increase 16 the contribution level up to $200 a month for retirees. 17 That's an additional $20 a month over and above what it is 18 today. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's still considerably 20 under the -- the actual cost of what's going out. 21 MR. LOONEY: Still well under, yeah. The other 22 item that we need to look at is that those are -- that's for 23 the retiree employee. We have some retirees that apparently 24 have some very young families, or they're adopting 25 grandchildren, so we have some retirees that have spouses 10-26-09 51 1 that are nowhere near retirement age, and they want to 2 include them on the plan, and they want to include the 3 children on the plan. So, I think that a retiree that wants 4 to include children on the plan should go ahead and pay what 5 our premium cost is for those, rather than have the county 6 contribution apply toward that expense. And also, I think 7 that for the spouse of the retiree, we should look at a 8 50 percent contribution of what our cost is to pay for that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what -- you say go to 50 11 percent. What is it now? 12 MS. HYDE: About 350 bucks. 13 MR. LOONEY: 50 percent would be $350 a month to 14 include spouses. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And what is it now? 16 MS. HYDE: Right now, it's the same cost as the 17 retiree. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: 200 or 180? 19 MS. HYDE: 180. 20 MR. LOONEY: Same cost as the employee. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. That would -- 22 MR. LOONEY: We're subsidizing -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 24 MR. LOONEY: -- someone who is not a retiree to the 25 County. 10-26-09 52 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 2 MR. LOONEY: And, again, that's up -- that's a 3 difficult -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: But I understand it's a pretty good 5 -- pretty good benefit for the spouse. 6 MR. LOONEY: It's a total -- it's a total 7 wrap-around Medicare, including prescription drug program. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gary, the last -- can I ask you 9 a question about the last -- this thing? 10 MR. LOONEY: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have is, the -- 12 as I read this, the cost to the county is $710 a month per 13 employee. 14 MR. LOONEY: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That seems high to me, just 16 from what -- I mean, I don't know a lot about insurance, and 17 I really -- unfortunately, I've got pulled into it, 'cause I 18 have employees and I have to provide insurance for them, but 19 that's pretty high. I mean, it's a better plan than I offer. 20 MR. LOONEY: I, you know, understand that that is 21 what it takes to fully fund the maximum exposure to the 22 County for the entire plan. That's what the funding number 23 is. What the actual net is at the end of the year is a 24 result of the claim cost plus the fixed cost. So, while that 25 number seems high right now, it very well, based on our 10-26-09 53 1 claims, may well be well under that. So, that's strictly a 2 number we use to fund to make sure that all contingencies, 3 all expenses, all claims are covered in case of a disastrous 4 period. Now, that number, in the insurance business, on an 5 aggregate claim basis, is approximately 25 percent greater 6 than what they fully expect the claims and losses to be, so 7 that number is actually right now inflated by 25 percent to 8 be sure that we hit the maximum fund in case it is a critical 9 year where we completely lose everything. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this number is -- if you 11 took 75 percent of that number, it would be more in line with 12 what I would be used to? 13 MR. LOONEY: Our actual exposure number from the 14 previous year on -- medical claim number was about $489. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be about right. 17 Take about 175 off that 710 and you're there. 18 MR. LOONEY: We -- we always put that fund factor 19 in for maximum critical, you know, circumstances. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to the HRA, I really 21 lost contact with that thing. Is it still 600? 800? 22 MS. HYDE: It's 600 for employee only. Employee 23 plus spouse is 1,200, and employee plus family is 1,800. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And I really like 25 that program. That is -- that's one of the best things we've 10-26-09 54 1 ever done here. Now, the free insurance in Washington -- the 2 free insurance that's going to cost 2 trillion, how is that 3 going to affect us when those nuts get their way? 4 MR. LOONEY: Well, the projected -- it's in the 5 Senate, as you well know, right now, two different 6 committees. It's still in the House under -- and they 7 haven't gotten a coordinated effort yet, but the indication 8 is that this -- if the government plan is passed -- which 9 there's still no guarantee that it's going to be there. If 10 it passes, then they want that to be an option, is what they 11 said, option to employers, employees. It's not supposed to 12 take place, actually become a functional option until either 13 2013 or 2014. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right after the election. 15 MR. LOONEY: Right after the election. So, there's 16 -- that's -- right now, it's all -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No change. 18 MR. LOONEY: All up in the air right now. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gary, on that topic, there's, 20 or was for a while, talk about really good plans, that 21 employers get hit with a penalty. Based on what I see, Kerr 22 County offers a really good plan to its employees. 23 MR. LOONEY: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a penalty that the 25 County may, I mean, be hit with because we provide too good 10-26-09 55 1 of insurance? 2 MR. LOONEY: It's in the legislation, the golden 3 plans that they talk about. They haven't really given it 4 definition yet, and they -- they don't know how to compare 5 plan benefit in relationship to premium cost, so they -- they 6 don't know what a golden plan looks like, because they don't 7 know whether it's based on benefit or whether it's going to 8 be based on premium. One congressional group says they're 9 going to base it on premium. You know, if the premium is 10 greater than, I think -- well, $300 a year for an employee, 11 then that -- anything over that will be a penalty. The other 12 one has come up with a plan design, and the plan design 13 which -- it was a mess. They don't -- they can't go into 14 enough detail to come up with a plan design. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the reality will be that if 16 this does end up in a bill, that the County will probably 17 have to reduce its plan. 18 MR. LOONEY: What'll probably happen is, if they 19 come up with -- with a plan -- if they come up with a price, 20 then they'll reduce the price back to that, and the plan will 21 be whatever is the result of that price. Or if they come up 22 with a plan, then you go to the, you know, minimal plan, and 23 it'll go from there. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like a disaster. 25 MR. LOONEY: Yeah, it's a train wreck looking for a 10-26-09 56 1 place to happen. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 MR. LOONEY: The other item that we have is the 4 group term life insurance. We did get a -- a renewal from 5 Mutual of Omaha on the group term life. But by combining the 6 stop loss insurance with ING and the group term life 7 together, then we get a premium reduction in the group term 8 life insurance. It was going to be, I think, 24 cents a 9 thousand per employee, per month, and that'll reduce back to 10 20 cents per thousand per employee, per month. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And that amounts to a savings of -- 12 in dollars, of? 13 MR. LOONEY: Roughly $10,000 to $12,000. So, my 14 recommendation is that we move to U.M.R., with stop loss 15 carrier ING for the stop loss and the group term life 16 insurance. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And we adjust our plan according to 19 the recommendations that you made? For example, retirees -- 20 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- going to 200, increasing 22 retiree's spouse 50 percent, full cost on other dependents? 23 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Full transparency on the drug and so 25 forth? 10-26-09 57 1 MR. LOONEY: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Based on the recommendation 3 of Mr. Looney, I move that we approve -- accept his -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Recommendation. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- recommendation. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of the recommendation of our insurance consultant to 9 go with U.M.R., with stop loss by ING, with adjustments as 10 outlined by Mr. Looney. Is there any question or discussion 11 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 12 raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. And, 17 Mr. Looney, we thank you again for your valuable service that 18 you provide to us. 19 MR. LOONEY: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quick question, Gary. 21 Thank you for your service; we appreciate that. But will the 22 agent, Mr. Wallace, and his group continue? 23 MR. LOONEY: No, he was not -- he was not the 24 presenter of this program. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, that will be a 10-26-09 58 1 change also. 2 MR. LOONEY: That'll be a change, yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who will the agent be? 4 MR. LOONEY: Willis -- 5 MR. MALEK: Willis of Texas. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that the man right there? 7 MR. LOONEY: That's him, Mr. Malek. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we get a full look at him? He 9 stands up pretty tall. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty big. 11 MR. MALEK: My name is Carey Malek. I'm with 12 Willis of Texas; I'm out of San Antonio. I've been here 13 before when I was with Mutual of Omaha. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought I recognized your 15 face. 16 MR. MALEK: Had to go find another job. So, here I 17 am again. Glad to be here. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Good to have you aboard. 19 MR. MALONEY: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Welcome. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need home telephone 23 numbers. 24 MR. MALONEY: I'll give you my cell phone. How 25 about that? 10-26-09 59 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good start. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's confidence, isn't it? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change is in the wind. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take a break, Judge? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: AirLIFE. AirLIFE. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a 10 o'clock timed item. 9 We've run past that a little bit. Item 7, presentation from 10 Steve Soliz on the San Antonio AirLIFE Guardian Angel plan. 11 Mr. Soliz? 12 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. Good morning, Judge, 13 Commissioners. I thank you for this opportunity to present 14 to you this morning. I'm here to discuss the Guardian Angel 15 plan that San Antonio AirLIFE has just launched in August. 16 Essentially, what it is is a membership plan that was kind of 17 called upon by the constituents of this commission -- this 18 court. When we opened up our base here last October next to 19 Sid -- to Peterson Regional, a lot of the residents here in 20 Kerr County were members of Air Evac Life Team membership 21 plan. Essentially, what it does, it mitigates out-of-pocket 22 expenses if you have to be flown by helicopter. If you have 23 to be flown from the side of the road or from Peterson to a 24 hospital in San Antonio or Austin, whatever your insurance 25 does not cover, you don't get billed for, besides your -- 10-26-09 60 1 your deductible, which is -- by law, you have to pay. We 2 can't write that off. But anything else that's a balance, 3 you will have to -- we will not charge you for if you're a 4 member. 5 So, during the first year we were here, we didn't 6 have this program, so what we did, we honored the Air Evac 7 program. If you were an Air Evac member, we would honor it, 8 since we are the preferred provider of the hospital. 9 We're -- we have a contract with them; we're first-call 10 provider for them. So, during that year, we came up with a 11 plan that is robust enough to provide the services that the 12 community has demanded. Second of all, it's given us the 13 opportunity to have reciprocal agreements with the carrier 14 out of Dallas, their helicopter program in Dallas, CareFlite, 15 as well as HALO-Flight in the Corpus Christi area. So, that 16 means if you are a member of our service, you're covered in 17 those areas as well. What we're charging the general public 18 is $49 per year, per household. What this means, it covers 19 everybody who's at that home address. 20 What this means for you is that we're making a 21 presentation -- or proposing that the County consider paying 22 this for their employees at $10 per employee, which actually 23 benefits the entire family, even if they have children away 24 at college. Anybody who's listed at this home address is 25 covered under the membership plan for $10 a head. What that 10-26-09 61 1 does is, obviously, it helps save them money in the 2 unfortunate case they ever have to be flown by helicopter 3 from the Kerrville/Kerr County area, or any Gillespie County 4 anywhere in the region to San Antonio or Austin for 5 definitive care. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- so, for $10 a head, 7 per employee. 8 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And family? 10 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include my dog? 12 No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That you will write off or 13 pick up the tab for everything over and above what the 14 insurance pays? 15 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can sign me up, I can 17 tell you that. 18 MR. SOLIZ: And this is what we're offering. We're 19 offering the County a $10 rate, just because it has more than 20 100 employees. We're offering that to any organization that 21 has over 100 employees. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a requirement that this be 23 funded through payroll deduction? 24 MR. SOLIZ: No, sir. It's -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10-26-09 62 1 MR. SOLIZ: -- whatever the County decides to do 2 and how they want to fund this. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it require the County 6 being the sponsor and paying the fee? 7 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Or the individual paying the fee? 9 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir, the County -- the sponsor is 10 going to be the employer. So, it can be -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the employer pays the 12 $10 per employee? 13 MR. SOLIZ: Yes. It streamlines the process. It 14 actually decreases our administrative costs by doing it that 15 way, and it's -- that's why we're encouraging larger 16 organizations going this route, because it makes it easier 17 for both sides. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we get -- it costs Kerr 19 County roughly $2,000, and we enroll all the employees. 20 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, about 25; we got about 22 250 employees. 2,500 bucks. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or the County can pay the 24 tab, but you can deduct the ten bucks out of my paycheck, and 25 I pay for my own. 10-26-09 63 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it has to be all the 2 employees, correct? 3 MR. SOLIZ: Well, it's up to you, as long as we 4 have over 100. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He doesn't care. 6 MR. SOLIZ: It depends -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He wants a check. 8 MR. SOLIZ: I presented this to Comal County. 9 Comal is actually thinking about offering it to part-time 10 employees as well, because it's such a good deal. So, it's 11 totally up to the County. What we'll do is draft an 12 agreement between San Antonio AirLIFE and the County to show 13 exactly what you're getting and what you want -- what you're 14 going to have, all part-time or all full-time or however. 15 And it can be a one-time -- it can be -- just do it annually, 16 or one shot only, or it could be perpetual; we'll renew the 17 contract every year. It's up to you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we just have however many 19 want to -- employees want to sign. Right now the only one is 20 Commissioner Baldwin. Then we just write a check for $120, 21 and it just comes out of his paycheck? It can be done that 22 way? 23 MR. SOLIZ: Actually, it's $10 a year. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $10 a year, not a month. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, a year. Even better. 10-26-09 64 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's better yet. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to join up with him 3 now? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might join up with him. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we want -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can pay for mine, then. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, we want to hold out for 8 the taxpayers to pay for ours, though. 9 MR. SOLIZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have an estimate 11 about what it would cost if the Judge had a heart attack and 12 we had to haul him to San Antonio? 13 MR. SOLIZ: Probably about $16,000. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $16,000. 15 MR. SOLIZ: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, for ten bucks -- 17 MR. SOLIZ: We'd bill his insurance. Whatever his 18 insurance pays us, that's payment in full. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And his deductible. 20 MR. SOLIZ: He has to pay his own deductible. His 21 family has to pay his deductible. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the least he could 23 do. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Unless I can figure out a way to 25 beat them out of it, of course. 10-26-09 65 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You want to bet? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But the requirement to participate 3 at this rate, the funding would have to come through the 4 County as the sponsor? 5 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're put in a position to 7 either work up some sort of payroll deduction, or just 8 provide it to our employees as an additional benefit. 9 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, that's probably the only 11 real -- two real options that we have. 12 MR. SOLIZ: Right, that's the easiest route. I 13 think most of the counties are considering -- I've presented 14 this to Frio, Karnes, Kendall, and Comal, and this is the way 15 that they're all thinking about doing it. Currently in 16 Comal, they're the ones I'm actually drawing up a contract 17 with and agreement with, and have actually given them an 18 invoice for their employees. So -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Total enrollment? 20 MR. SOLIZ: Total enrollment, yes, sir. And I'm -- 21 I'm the project manager for this. I'm the Director of 22 Business Development for San Antonio AirLIFE. I've been a 23 flight nurse for 12 years, and this is what I -- I'd be 24 working on full-time with your staff. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Where did Ms. Hyde go? I guess 10-26-09 66 1 she's with Mr. Looney. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have any data on what 3 the likelihood is of somebody -- one of the Kerr County 4 employees or family needing this service? 5 MR. SOLIZ: It's pretty low. The percentage is 6 pretty low. Just like, you know, we can't -- we can't -- if 7 you're a Medicaid recipient, you can't participate in this, 8 'cause Medicaid is payment in full; there's no over and above 9 charges for that. Medicare individuals, a lot of them do 10 have Medigap, which covers their 20 percent copay, and we 11 have to take that payment as full. But one thing that we 12 offer that a lot other programs don't offer, there's a thing 13 called medical necessity. A lot of times insurance companies 14 want to deny as soon as we put in a bill for services. 15 They'll say, "Well, this is not a medical necessity, and so 16 they could have went by ground; they didn't have to go by 17 helicopter." From what we know at the time of the call, what 18 911 does, what the hospital does, they use their best 19 judgment to send the patient by air, and at the end of the 20 day, you may be stuck with a bill if we lose that battle with 21 the insurance company. So, with the Guardian Angel, if 22 you're a member and you have a bill because the insurance 23 company refuses to pay, we will cut that bill in half. You 24 only have a 50 percent liability. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you lose the argument? 10-26-09 67 1 MR. SOLIZ: If we lose the argument. And we have a 2 pretty good billing agency that doesn't lose too many. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Refines it down to medical 4 necessity versus convenience or something else. 5 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- how many times a 7 day do y'all go from Kerrville to San Antonio? 8 MR. SOLIZ: We fly approximately 40 missions a 9 month from this base. Not all -- not totally all in Kerr 10 County, obviously. Sometimes we do go to Kimble, sometimes 11 Gillespie, but we stay pretty busy. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it's your operation 13 that built the new facilities at our airport; is that 14 correct? 15 MR. SOLIZ: No. Actually, that's the other 16 company. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other company. Are you 18 in that facility? Or -- 19 MR. SOLIZ: No, we're -- actually, we're next to 20 the hospital. There's a tract of land on the other side of 21 that drainage ditch that the hospital owns, and so we 22 rehabbed that building, and we have a helipad there. We've 23 been in service a year October 9. And, obviously, we're a 24 19-year-old company. We're a not-for-profit out of San 25 Antonio. We're Texas-owned, and we've been here, and we're 10-26-09 68 1 going to be here. That's our plan. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Soliz, it occurs to me that -- I 3 was looking for Ms. Hyde. If there is something done through 4 payroll deduction, I'm surprised we didn't hear some 5 screaming and hollering, but apparently she's not here, so we 6 didn't hear it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She should stay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. It appears that one 9 of the considerations we may have to make is whether or not 10 the County funds it as an additional benefit to the 11 employees, so that puts us in a position of having to look at 12 budgetary impact and how we might fund that if we decide to 13 do it, so that's -- those are things we're going to have to 14 look at. And I -- the Auditor keeps looking at me like, 15 "Where are you going to find this money?" And I haven't 16 found any money. Settle down out there, okay? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a -- I mean, 18 certainly it would be worthwhile pursuing it. I think it's 19 my personal feeling that it would be more an employee 20 deduction, probably, one time. But -- 21 MR. SOLIZ: And you could shape it that way. You 22 could definitely shape it that way. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For those that wanted to get 24 it, I think it seems like a very good deal, but I'm not sure 25 that it's a budgeted item -- or it's not a budgeted item. 10-26-09 69 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Better poll the employees 2 before we decide. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Before we just automatically 5 say we're going to take it out. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's -- they would sign up 7 for it. We would never just take it out. Say, you know, the 8 only one that signs up for it is Commissioner Baldwin; 9 then -- well, it's just one person. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He can just pay for it out of 11 his own pocket. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't accept cash, 13 probably. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd be willing to bet they 15 do. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't want to get into that. Any 17 more questions for Mr. Soliz? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we bring it back next -- 19 next meeting? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We can, yeah. I think we need some 21 feedback from the employees during the interim, though, see 22 what the level of interest is. And probably some more 23 thought on what we need to do to -- we can't -- I don't see 24 that we can take any action on it. It's not an action item. 25 MS. UECKER: I have one question, if I could ask. 10-26-09 70 1 You said for the employee and the household? 2 MR. SOLIZ: Yes. 3 MS. UECKER: Is that only the employee that has 4 their household on the county's insurance? Or is it 5 regardless? 6 MR. SOLIZ: No, it would be whatever -- whatever 7 your mailing address is as a -- whoever lives at that 8 address. 9 MS. UECKER: Whether or not they're on the county's 10 plan or not? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. That has no 12 relationship to our dependent status under our health 13 benefits program. There's no relationship there. 14 MR. SOLIZ: That's right. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If they live in the same household, 16 they're covered. 17 MR. SOLIZ: That's right. 18 MS. BAILEY: Can I ask a question? If you're 19 covered through the program through Kerr County, but you 20 happen to be located in another county when you have an 21 injury requiring Life Flight, would that still be covered? 22 MR. SOLIZ: Yes. Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as you're within the 24 Service areas of one of those -- 25 MR. SOLIZ: Right. And we cover this area. Our 10-26-09 71 1 service area is 26,000 square miles. It's bigger than seven 2 states in the U.S. We're one of the busiest programs in the 3 U.S. We fly 4-to-1 over what the other company does. We're 4 very -- extremely busy, and we have very fast, very high-tech 5 technology-related aircraft. We pride ourselves on that. 6 MS. UECKER: And what if that other household 7 member, say, for example, doesn't -- has no other insurance? 8 MR. SOLIZ: Okay. If they don't -- if they're 9 uninsured, what we offer them is a 50 percent discount on the 10 final bill. 11 MS. UECKER: Okay. 12 MR. SOLIZ: That's what we do for uninsured, and 13 also if medical necessity is denied. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's inside your service 15 area. If you had one up in -- had an accident or something 16 up around Amarillo or whatever, that's outside of your 17 service area, -- 18 MR. SOLIZ: Right. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- then this plan does not 20 cover it. 21 MR. SOLIZ: Right. And if -- there's a map I 22 included for the gentlemen up front, but essentially, the 23 whole Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex is covered with our 24 reciprocal agreement with CareFlite, and the whole coastal 25 area all the way down to the valley is covered with 10-26-09 72 1 HALO-Flight, so if you're a member, they'll honor it, and 2 just as we'll honor their memberships if their members are 3 visiting the San Antonio area. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just don't go to Houston. 5 MR. SOLIZ: Actually, we're working on Houston too. 6 We actually are working with them. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Stay out of west Texas, too. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Soliz? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have one more question. 10 MR. SOLIZ: Yes, sir? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What kind of -- I think I'm 12 reading it here, but what kind of professional medical folk 13 are required to be on -- on the aircraft? 14 MR. SOLIZ: We have -- we fly a nurse and 15 paramedic. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MR. SOLIZ: By state law, we have to have a 18 paramedic on each aircraft to go do 911 scene calls on the 19 highway type of work. But all of our nurses and paramedics 20 at AirLIFE have over 15 years experience. And there's a 21 rumor -- not a rumor, but an old saying at AirLIFE. Someone 22 has to die before you can get a job there. We have some 23 people there who've been there from the very first day we 24 started back in 1991. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 10-26-09 73 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 2 MR. SOLIZ: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate 3 your time. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Appreciate it. Let's go 5 to Item 8 before we take our break. Consider, discuss, take 6 appropriate action to submit application to Texas Water 7 Development Board for a flood protection planning grant for 8 Center Point/East Kerr County and other areas of Kerr County 9 as may be desirable. Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I put 11 this on the agenda because -- first of all, because we're 12 having a lot of rain and a lot more flooding problems. But 13 the background information of this particular agenda item is 14 contained in the colonia survey done by Grantworks on behalf 15 of Kerr County, and it identified in Center Point, 16 particularly in eastern Kerr County, some tremendous flooding 17 areas and a need for some additional stormwater takeoff. I 18 think that that probably applies to other areas of Kerr 19 County. Each Commissioner would know individually within 20 their own precinct as to whether or not that exists, and 21 whether or not we want to find out more about this. I asked 22 Mr. Al Groves, who is representing the County as a project 23 manager for the Center Point sewer project, to query the 24 Texas Water Development Board to see if there was any funding 25 available for such a plan for -- for drainage problems. And 10-26-09 74 1 so, Al, if you would be so good as to come to the podium and 2 tell us what your findings were from Texas Water Development 3 Board to see whether or not this is something we want to move 4 forward on. 5 MR. GROVES: Good morning, Your Honor, 6 Commissioners Court. I'm Al Groves. Do you need my address, 7 or just my name? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Name's fine. 9 MR. GROVES: Okay. Anyway, I went up to Austin and 10 talked to Water Development Board. This is a new program 11 that they've got for flood protection, and they have set 12 aside a million dollars initially authorized for fiscal year 13 2010 for flood protection planning from the board's research 14 and planning fund. Up to 50 percent may be -- funding may be 15 provided to individual applicants, with up to 75 percent 16 funding available for areas identified as economically 17 disadvantaged. So, the Center Point area is economically -- 18 as an example, is economically disadvantaged, so any flood 19 control analysis in there, I think, would be on a 75 percent 20 grant, 25 percent paid out. The deadline for getting these 21 applications in -- and I've been unable to get an application 22 form today, but the deadline for getting the applications in 23 is January -- January 22nd of 2000 -- that's not -- yeah, 24 2010. The -- the rules of the application instruction sheet 25 I do not have, but I'm -- I'm thinking they're probably about 10-26-09 75 1 the same as the application that we went through for -- for 2 the wastewater program with -- with the Water Development 3 Board. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Al, if there are other 5 areas in the county that have flooding problems as we've 6 identified in Center Point and the eastern part of the 7 county, would they likewise qualify under the EDAP because we 8 have some eligibility there? Or is there a higher threshold 9 in other areas of the county? 10 MR. GROVES: Well, my understanding of it is that 11 the areas that would qualify for the higher -- higher 12 grant -- in other words, you'd have to apportion it. If 13 you're doing areas that do not qualify that are in the 14 planning grant, then you would have to identify the cost 15 involved in those. So -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, it would have to 17 be some preliminary type study. 18 MR. GROVES: Oh, you'd have -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First of all, where it is, 20 and what the extent of it is, and some estimate. 21 MR. GROVES: You'd have to do -- I'm sure that has 22 to be done for the application. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 24 MR. GROVES: You've got to identify the problem 25 that you're going to ask them to let you do the planning on. 10-26-09 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, the only one 2 we've identified so far, for members of the Court, is the 3 Center Point one. It came out of that colonia survey in 4 Westwood Park and places like that. And I think before we 5 move forward on it today -- I don't think we will move 6 forward today, except to ask each of the other -- my 7 colleagues here if there are areas in your precinct that you 8 want to be considered, you know, it makes sense to do so. 9 What this -- what this support document shows is there's a 10 half million dollars -- it would be a half million dollars 11 worth of work required to take care of the flooding issues in 12 Center Point, just that alone. 13 MR. GROVES: Well, this is only the planning. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Planning. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 16 MR. GROVES: The million dollars is planning 17 grants. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand it's planning, 19 but I'm just talking about if we got to the point of doing 20 it, it'd be a half million dollars. 21 MR. GROVES: I need to clarify, this is for major 22 rivers and tributaries. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. GROVES: Major creeks, rivers, and tributaries. 25 It's not if you have a flooding problem -- an isolated 10-26-09 77 1 flooding problem someplace that's not attributable to a 2 tributary or a major creek or a major river. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: If you've got something that's just 4 an inappropriate drainage -- 5 MR. GROVES: Right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- function, why, that doesn't 7 apply. We're looking at only rivers, streams, and -- 8 MR. GROVES: I think it would apply, for instance, 9 to low-water crossings. What are you -- on the Guadalupe, 10 for instance, a low-water crossing, that creates a flooding 11 problem. If there is a flood, it's a problem that has some 12 risk to health, welfare, et cetera. And that's just my 13 interpretation at this point. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there are other areas 15 that have some of the same conditions that we have in 16 Precinct 2; i.e., creeks trying to get into the Guadalupe in 17 heavy rain situations. 18 MR. GROVES: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And creating that backup. 20 And so it's out there for you to -- for your consideration. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- or what dollars are 22 we looking at to do a planning study? I mean, like, for the 23 Center Point one which you're familiar with? 24 MR. GROVES: I don't know, Commissioner, until -- 25 you know, what I would -- what I would think would be 10-26-09 78 1 necessary would be to spend some time identifying what the 2 areas are, what -- what the wants are and so forth, and 3 evaluating what the program is that you're going to put in an 4 application for planning for. If -- if it's just random, 5 saying, "I want an application for Kerr County," it's 6 probably not going to fly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, let's take -- you 8 mentioned low-water crossings. Say, you know -- take any 9 number of roads we have in the county where you go across a 10 couple low-water crossings. I can't imagine it'd take very 11 much money to figure out the problem. Every time you get a 12 frequency of an event, it floods. 13 MR. GROVES: No. Yeah, and that's the planning -- 14 the planning portion on it is not -- I mean, the planning 15 effort that's required is not a great deal. You've got -- 16 you've got your FEMA -- FEMA program, so it's a -- as far as 17 the application to get the planning funded, you can get most 18 of the information off of stuff you already have. As far as 19 the planning is concerned, it would just be an identification 20 of the cost involved to -- to -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To do the work. 22 MR. GROVES: -- correct the problem. So, I don't 23 think it's an expensive planning program. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the fix is pretty 25 expensive, you think? 10-26-09 79 1 MR. GROVES: The fix may be, but if the planning 2 is paid for, they'll probably have the same thing; they'll 3 come back for construction. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to get construction 5 grant dollars until you got the planning -- 6 MR. GROVES: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in place, of course. 8 MR. GROVES: That's the same thing we're doing with 9 Center Point. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Groves, you made a 11 comment that you hadn't been able to get an application. 12 What is that about? 13 MR. GROVES: Just a copy of the -- physical copy of 14 the application, I wasn't able to pick it up. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if we called up, there 16 wouldn't be any problem getting one? 17 MR. GROVES: No, I think I can get one. You can 18 probably get it over the internet. If -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MR. GROVES: If I were more computer literate, I'd 21 probably have gotten it off -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They are not due until 23 January sometime? 24 MR. GROVES: January 22nd. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this means to me that 10-26-09 80 1 this thing is down the road, down there a petty good ways, 2 huh? 3 MR. GROVES: It -- as far as doing the planning, it 4 would happen sometime, I would say, mid-2010. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 6 MR. GROVES: Then the -- if there is a construction 7 program to follow behind it, it would be sometime in 2011, 8 probably. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- but to get the 10 application in, with the holidays and all that, pretty much 11 we've got to have it -- that part done by sometime in 12 November. 13 MR. GROVES: I would suggest also that -- that 14 there may be -- they've got a million dollars here initially 15 authorized for the fiscal year, but they -- normally, they 16 quantify these -- quantify these things at the time they came 17 in, if everything else is equal, your time that you get the 18 submittal in. So, I wouldn't wait until January 22nd to get 19 in an application. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Groves? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to ask -- if 22 the Court's amenable, we could approve filing an application 23 and get that part out of the way, and then develop the 24 application. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: File it and then amend it later with 10-26-09 81 1 the details? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, approval to file is 3 what I'm trying to say, Judge. Approval to file. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's got to -- you can 5 work on it, but I don't want to submit it till we get the 6 cost, because it's going -- I don't know where the money's 7 going to come from in our budget. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably need to identify the areas, 9 too. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got to identify the areas 11 and the extent of the it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If we're going to do something from 13 Center Point, the -- the economics may be different in that 14 area, so it impacts our cost on the match, and we probably 15 need a little bit better handle on that, I would think. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. All 17 right. Why don't we think about it, and we'll bring it back. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Groves, we thank you. 19 MR. GROVES: Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. Let's go ahead 21 and take a 15-minute recess. 22 (Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order, if 25 we might, from our recess, and let's move to Item 10; 10-26-09 82 1 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on update and 2 status report of the jail docket/direct file/fast track 3 system. Commissioner Baldwin, you asked that this matter be 4 placed on the agenda. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did, sir, and I thank you. 6 I just wanted to remind everybody, about a couple of years 7 ago there was some discussions in this courtroom in regards 8 to the numbers of -- in our jail, filling our jail up, and 9 the possibility of spending millions of dollars of adding on 10 to our jail. And the question came from this table of, is 11 there anything that we can do to reduce the numbers to at 12 least prolong the building of the jail? And as we had 13 meetings around the community and in this room with the 14 D.A.'s and judges, et cetera, we have -- now have this thing 15 called direct file and fast track. And -- and David Cavazos 16 is -- is the guy out at the jail, or that goes out to the 17 jail, and he's our prosecutor that sees -- that tries -- 18 tries to keep those numbers down. And a couple of weeks ago, 19 in Rusty's report to us, the numbers -- the population of the 20 jail itself had almost doubled in a couple of weeks, and so 21 to me that is alarming. And so what -- we had talked about 22 it, and so I -- I talked with Bruce, and he suggested that we 23 invite David Cavazos over here to give us an update. And so 24 I think -- David, are you here? So, for you that don't know 25 Davis Cavazos, this is him. And -- and he has been kind 10-26-09 83 1 enough to come over and kind of give us a report and an 2 update, and maybe answers to the question of why have those 3 numbers gone up. 4 MR. CAVAZOS: Thank you. I don't think that the 5 numbers have doubled. I think it's about 134. The lowest 6 the population has been, I think, is about 95. The Sheriff 7 can correct me if I'm wrong. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're up to 152 today. 9 MR. CAVAZOS: And when I looked at the census 10 report today, it was about 150. But you have to add about 15 11 from Gillespie County also, so that's going to automatically 12 reduce it. At least -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I said almost double. 14 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes. I'm not arguing with that; I'm 15 just -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll go back and read this 17 thing if you want to. 18 MR. CAVAZOS: But -- so it hasn't exactly doubled. 19 But also, arrests tend to be in cycles. In the summer, 20 sometimes we'll have less arrests. During the fall right 21 now, we'll tend to have more arrests. It's going to go kind 22 of like a roller coaster, but we're still taking care of 23 cases. There a couple weeks ago, we had seven pleas in one 24 day, which is a lot to do over there, on felony cases. We're 25 not doing misdemeanors. These are felonies, and not just 10-26-09 84 1 state jails. We've also done all the way up to first degree 2 felonies. And most of these cases tend to be violations of 3 probation, which we are taking care of, you know, within 4 maybe a week to two, versus the old way, it was going on 5 about 60, 90 days. Of course, I could be wrong on that, but 6 it was at least going 30 days, so we're able to move those 7 inmates out. But we are moving cases. 8 I did speak with Mr. Curry and I did speak with 9 Mr. Barton, both of whom are not here today, but I'm here. 10 And with Mr. Barton, we now have about 25 cases that are in 11 custody that we are working on, that we intend to dispose of. 12 And I had a good meeting with him last week, and we're going 13 to see what we can do to dispose of those 25 cases with 14 Mr. Barton. Mr. Curry has about another 25 cases also that 15 we're working on, that we're trying to dispose of. So, we 16 are attempting -- intending to move cases, and we will move 17 those cases. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time. Some 18 weeks we may have five, seven pleas. There may be another 19 week where we only have two, but that doesn't mean that 20 there's not negotiations going on behind the scenes where 21 we're trying to dispose of these cases. There will be 22 instances when you have drug cases where the attorney's going 23 to want a lab report. We can't get that in one day. It's 24 going to take a little bit of time from Austin to get the lab 25 report. We can't just plea people out because we want to 10-26-09 85 1 plea them out, because then the defense attorney's going to 2 be a little concerned about his or her license. 3 I also had a meeting with Mr. Curry and Mr. Barton 4 where we may have to start appointing attorneys like we did 5 the old-fashioned way, instead of just one defense attorney, 6 where we would just go ahead and appoint them out, because it 7 was getting a bit overwhelming just for one defense attorney 8 to do it. Maybe if the fee were to be increased for that 9 defense attorney, maybe make them a public defender or 10 something of that nature, because they're -- that defense 11 attorney, on some days, is having to go talk to, you know, 12 maybe 5 to 10 inmates and having to take away from their 13 regular practice. That can be a bit overwhelming at times. 14 There will be three days where you don't have any arrests, 15 and then all of a sudden you can have five, for instance, and 16 then, whoa, wait a minute, we got to do something here. But 17 this is something that I work on each morning, first thing I 18 do, before I do any of my other stuff. It's -- you know, I 19 check the bookings and the arrests, and then I have to take 20 it from there. 21 And the process is going to work where we have, 22 say -- say we have one individual that's arrested. If 23 there's no file on that individual, meaning the individual 24 hasn't been indicted, I'm the one that has to get the offense 25 reports. I'm the one that has to get the criminal history 10-26-09 86 1 report. I'm the one that has to contact the probation 2 officer and so forth. We're working without investigators, 3 and we're -- a lot of times we were just doing this on our 4 own, whereas in the regular office you would have an 5 investigator helping with some of this work. There's a new 6 individual at the jail that the Sheriff hired; her name is 7 Melanie, and I can't pronounce her last name, but she's very 8 helpful, and she's eager to learn, and she's helping out. 9 And she's wanting to learn how to do plea papers, which is 10 going to be a tremendous amount of help, because Jane in 11 Bruce's office is the one having to do the plea papers for 12 the 216th, and that's a very large district, and sometimes it 13 was difficult for her to get plea papers done at the last 14 minute. So, if we can get another individual doing plea 15 papers, that's also going to help. 16 But I'm sorry that the population has increased, 17 but we intend to get it down. I did speak with Mr. Curry, 18 and we said that maybe we'll start appointing regular 19 attorneys and see if that's going to help move the docket, 20 because it's -- I think it's too overwhelming just for one 21 attorney, unless there's something worked out with one 22 attorney where that attorney can just do it basically on a 23 full-time or part-time basis. That may help. So -- but I'll 24 be the first one to say that if -- in the next 90 days, if 25 something hasn't improved, I would gladly be the first one to 10-26-09 87 1 walk away. And I don't want it to fail. I don't think it 2 will fail. I think this county needs a jail docket. Every 3 county has a jail docket. I do think that we should have 4 misdemeanors included in this, because that would help clear 5 out the jail also. I don't know how Mr. Emerson feels about 6 that, but Mr. Emerson's office does move the cases very 7 quickly. But if you can throw in misdemeanors, that may help 8 also. And I don't think you're going to have too many 9 Gillespie County -- if you're only running 15, maybe, at a 10 time, that's not going to hurt too much. But we're trying to 11 do the best we can under the circumstances. And I'll take 12 any questions. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You say that you have -- 14 216th has about 25? 15 MR. CAVAZOS: It's about dead even. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 25 from 198th? 17 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then I think one of the 19 questions has always been, how many of those have been -- you 20 know, what -- what is the length of stay? How long do -- 21 have they been there? 22 MR. CAVAZOS: Some of them have been there longer 23 than others. It's going to depend on the type of the case. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, like 100 days? 25 Or -- 10-26-09 88 1 MR. CAVAZOS: There may be some that have been in 2 there 400 days, but those aren't cases that we're handling at 3 the jail docket. We can't handle every case that comes 4 through there. There may be a first-degree felony that we're 5 going to have to set on the regular docket. We can't just 6 take every case on the jail docket. Also, we've taken some 7 cases, to be quite frank with you, that we shouldn't have 8 taken, but we took them anyway, and it kind of put us back 9 behind schedule. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean by that? 11 MR. CAVAZOS: Well, we had to do a little bit of 12 extra work as far as investigating the case and so forth. 13 Because when I first spoke with Mr. Curry -- and to this day, 14 I still don't know who my boss is. It's either Amos or 15 Bruce. But I just say I work for the Commissioners, and that 16 pretty much -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good enough. 18 MR. CAVAZOS: -- takes care of it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's close enough. 20 MR. CAVAZOS: Yeah. So, sometimes you have to do 21 different investigative work for different cases, and maybe 22 those are cases we say, well, we shouldn't take care of them. 23 Also, this direct file -- I want to explain things, how it 24 works. Direct file and the jail docket are not the same. 25 We -- the jail docket, we take care of custody cases, but the 10-26-09 89 1 direct file means -- say Johnny gets arrested, but he bonds 2 out. Okay. He has a number, and he's either going to be -- 3 he's going to be put in the system right away. A file is 4 created. For the 216th, we're taking care of those cases. 5 For the 198th, Mr. Barton is taking care of his direct file 6 cases that bond out. So, we've had some cases that have 7 bonded out that have added on a little more work. And I 8 spoke with Mr. Curry and said maybe we shouldn't be taking 9 care of those cases so we can concentrate more just on jail 10 cases, and put those on the regular docket, and they can go 11 through the regular system. Suddenly, we had -- maybe in the 12 past month, we would have five additional people that would 13 be in court, and we had to get reports for those cases. 14 Because, you know, I'm the one that has to get those reports, 15 again, and so that would be five more reports I'd have to 16 get, and get with the defense attorney and so forth. So, I 17 think if we tell both districts, you handle your direct file 18 cases that have bonded out, and just leave the jail cases to 19 us, and we only touch custody cases only. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, you've created 21 some questions in my mind. The -- you've been around 22 Mr. Curry long enough to understand how 216th operates, and 23 you would know which case needs to go on the regular docket 24 -- "regular docket" I think is the word you used. 25 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes. 10-26-09 90 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And which cases would be 2 held in your -- on your docket. 3 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does it -- does the 198th 5 function in that same way? Are you familiar with 198th well 6 enough to know which is which? 7 MR. CAVAZOS: I think both D.A.'s are getting more 8 on board with this project. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 10 MR. CAVAZOS: Both D.A.'s are starting to get on 11 board now. In the beginning, the 198th didn't have maybe but 12 14 case -- jail cases. They didn't have a lot of work. 13 216th had about 50 in the very beginning, so we were moving a 14 lot of 216th cases, and I think that number from May to 15 September is about 100 pleas at the jail, all felonies. And 16 out of those cases, it's not fair for me to say how many were 17 216th and 198th, because you're going to raise eyebrows, 18 saying, "Well, maybe the 198th isn't on board." They've been 19 getting on board lately, but it would be drastically 20 different in numbers. But now that you have both of them 21 basically even, now we're going to be able to tell which D.A. 22 is on board as far as moving these jail cases. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, our whole thing is -- 24 is, you know, we get -- we want the numbers low so we don't 25 ask the taxpayers to spend $10 million on a new jail. 10-26-09 91 1 MR. CAVAZOS: Well, I understand. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I mean, that's our 3 deal. I was just curious about some of those things and how 4 that worked, is the reason I asked the question. 5 MR. CAVAZOS: But also, to be fair, there's -- you 6 know, I just can't go in there on a daily basis and say, 7 "These are my recommendations," and nobody's going to tell me 8 anything about it. It doesn't quite work that way. I think 9 I can dispose of cases -- any case that goes in there, except 10 for a murder or sexual assault. Those require too much 11 investigation, and the jail docket's just not set up for 12 those, but we can pretty much handle any case that's there. 13 Just -- there's going to be times when people aren't happy 14 with my recommendation; I'll be quite honest with you. But 15 they can at least point the finger at me, because it will 16 fall on me, that it was my recommendation. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. And maybe I'm -- 18 boy-dummy thing. Can you explain the process, how this 19 works? I mean, how do you know what you can -- how to 20 plea -- how to offer a plea? I mean, do you have, like, 21 guidelines coming from the two district attorneys that say 22 this is what I want to do, or it's just up to you to -- 23 MR. CAVAZOS: It's -- I have some discretion. And 24 then I can send an e-mail saying, "What do you think on this 25 sort of recommendation?" Okay, that -- that can be 10-26-09 92 1 appropriate. I have made some recommendations without 2 contacting either D.A., because I felt that they were 3 appropriate, especially on state jail cases. If they get 4 upset about that, I'm -- I'm sorry, but for those type of 5 cases, I felt that that punishment was appropriate. And I've 6 worked in a D.A.'s office with over 80 attorneys. There's 7 always going to be a difference of opinion. This is a much 8 smaller area. Not everybody's always going to be happy with 9 my recommendations, and vice-versa. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, is it a recommendation, 11 or is it -- it's an action, really. I mean, you're -- you're 12 the final word, so to speak, aren't you? 13 MR. CAVAZOS: I don't have the final word. I can 14 make a recommendation, and if someone doesn't like it, that 15 case can be taken from it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That someone is the D.A.? 17 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes. If Mr. Curry or Mr. Barton say, 18 "No, we don't like that recommendation." And, you know, 19 that's their office, to be quite frank with you. They can do 20 that as they please. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay, that -- I was 22 just trying to figure out how you interact with the D.A.'s. 23 MR. CAVAZOS: For instance, there may be an 24 individual that violated probation. I may say, "Well, this 25 is a state jail," and I might evaluate the case and say, "I'm 10-26-09 93 1 just going to give them six months," and the D.A. may come 2 back and say, "No, I think that we should put that on the 3 docket and do a contested revocation," or, "That person 4 should be given 15 months state jail." And then you would 5 put that person on the regular docket. Either way, the 6 individual was going to go to state jail and get a number and 7 so forth, but sometimes there's a different philosophy with 8 different prosecutors. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But generally they go along 10 with the recommendation, I would think? 11 MR. CAVAZOS: Generally, they tend to go along with 12 my recommendation, yes. It'll be quite interesting to see 13 what happens after today as far as my recommendations. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Cavazos, if -- if I understand 15 the total concept of the system, it's for those so-called 16 run-of-the-mill type cases, the ordinary cases in which the 17 reports are reasonably complete, the reports of 18 investigations done by law enforcement, and there -- and you 19 have a defendant who acknowledges his culpability and wants 20 to get his case disposed of, and there's no serious issues 21 one way or the other with regard to elements of the crime, 22 or -- or maybe some search issues that -- that a defense 23 lawyer might raise if they're pretty much straight down the 24 line type cases. Those are the kind of cases you're trying 25 to move out of there faster. Is that -- is that my 10-26-09 94 1 understanding? 2 MR. CAVAZOS: That's correct, Judge Tinley. Any 3 time an individual wants to plea, we're able to move that 4 case, but there's been instances, especially in probation 5 cases, that we've taken care of those cases in one week, 6 sometimes one day. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. CAVAZOS: And there's also been cases where 9 individuals have pled on informations. That means they 10 haven't even gone through the grand jury process and so 11 forth, that we've been able to dispose of in one week. It's 12 not always like that, 'cause sometimes they want to fight 13 their case, and they're entitled to fight their case. But 14 generally, I think we have at least a 90 percent success rate 15 as far as working something out with these individuals and 16 taking care of their cases. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But as to those cases where the 18 defendant is resisting, and -- and those just get put over 19 here in the other pile to go onto the regular docket, as you 20 call it. 21 MR. CAVAZOS: That's correct. We don't do any 22 contested revocations at the jail. We don't -- we just don't 23 do that. That has to go before Judge Williams, or now Judge 24 Emerson. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Basically, an expedited voluntary 10-26-09 95 1 process. 2 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes. We're still -- it's still 3 getting cases moving, though. Say the individual doesn't 4 want to enter into negotiations. We're able to pass that on 5 to either office and give them a heads-up, and the case is 6 moving. Versus the old way, you know, "Hey, who's this?" 7 "Oh, he's been here for 60 days." At least now they know 8 within a week what's going on. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned that you perceive 10 some -- some difficulty with the defense lawyers involved 11 because of them having a high number of cases to work and so 12 forth. It's my understanding that what we've got are two 13 standing defense lawyers presently; is that correct? 14 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes, Judge Tinley, but only one is on 15 call for the month, so it would just be one defense attorney, 16 having to take away from that defense attorney's practice and 17 go and see cases. And, yes, sometimes I can be a little 18 pushy, saying, "Hey, you need to go talk to this individual" 19 and so forth. I've got things to do and so forth. Now, my 20 goal is, yes, to move cases. That defense attorney will have 21 other jobs, and I'm not going to get up here and badmouth any 22 of the defense attorneys, but I just think sometimes it can 23 get a bit overwhelming if you throw in a defense attorney's 24 private practice on top of having to take care of 25 additional -- in some instances, 10 cases in one week. That 10-26-09 96 1 can get a bit overwhelming for a defense attorney, 'cause a 2 defense attorney has to go sit at the jail and so forth and 3 talk to them. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my question to you is, do 5 you feel that the system would be better served if we had a 6 larger cadre of defense lawyers to call upon, for example? 7 Say, on a -- on a weekly rotation or a monthly rotation, or 8 twice-a-month rotation, some sort of system whereby there's 9 not burnout of -- of a particular defense lawyer, as opposed 10 to going on a -- a single individual appointment basis, like 11 is done on the -- on the regular docket? 12 MR. CAVAZOS: I think one defense attorney can 13 handle the jail docket. Providing that defense attorney has 14 made an offer they just can't refuse, I think that that 15 defense attorney can do it. It is doable. I've done it as a 16 defense attorney. I think you can do it. You're just going 17 to have to -- you know, something's going to have to give. 18 Or you just appoint it the old-fashioned way; it just goes 19 through a regular appointment process where, you know, as per 20 wheel, any attorney can get it, and then I just work with 21 that attorney. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: How many -- how many defense lawyers 23 have -- have been utilized in the system since we got it up 24 and running? 25 MR. CAVAZOS: We've only had two defense attorneys 10-26-09 97 1 that are always on the standing order, and that's going to be 2 Ms. Lucy Pearson and Ms. Susan Desprez. We've had just about 3 every attorney at the jail. Sometimes these cases will get 4 appointed on the regular docket -- not the regular docket, 5 but they'll get an attorney, and I'll still work with that 6 attorney. We've had just about every defense attorney there. 7 Now, you have a problem with certain defense attorneys 8 thinking that they're looking bad by going there. Why, I 9 don't know. But -- but they tend to like working with me, 10 that I haven't had any fail to show up. But we're still able 11 to work with them and take care of the case. I don't -- if 12 they have to show up, they're going to show up. And I'm not 13 worried about that process. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Cavazos, would you say 15 that, on balance, from your experience in the program now, 16 that it is producing the results we envisioned or desired? 17 MR. CAVAZOS: It was two months ago. These past 60 18 days -- I'd say about the past 30 days, the month of 19 September is when we got a little bit of an increase that I 20 didn't feel comfortable with, and for reasons that -- kind of 21 hard to disclose here, but ultimately, you know, it's going 22 to fall on my shoulders. But I felt that there was a problem 23 with -- there was just a problem in the system that -- it's 24 kind of hard to disclose right now, but I think we have fixed 25 that by saying either compensate a defense attorney or 10-26-09 98 1 appoint it through the regular system. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Has there been a -- has there been 3 any sort of policy memorandum prepared that outlines what 4 cases do or don't go through this rapid system? 5 MR. CAVAZOS: Not exactly a memorandum; we just 6 have several e-mails back and forth. But generally, murder 7 and sexual assault cases and your serious first-degree cases, 8 we just don't mess with those cases, because the jail 9 system's not set up for that. For instance, a normal jail 10 system, you'd have a judge that's there all the time. You'd 11 have your own clerk preparing plea papers and so forth. 12 You'd have your own staff. We're doing the best we can under 13 the circumstances. We have Judge Sherrill, who's been very 14 helpful, and we've been moving this docket -- basically, 15 we've been inventing the wheel, and it was succeeding, and I 16 think it still will succeed. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You think part of the numbers being 18 ballooned up right now are just the normal anomalies that 19 cases come and cases go? 20 MR. CAVAZOS: That's one factor, but there were 21 other factors involved -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. CAVAZOS: -- also, Judge. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: And the other factors, in your mind, 25 are fixable? 10-26-09 99 1 MR. CAVAZOS: Yes, I think that they will be fixed 2 by either appointing the attorneys the regular way, or 3 compensating the defense attorney that we can make sure will 4 be held accountable and will always be there. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Cavazos? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and I think this last 7 part -- we finally got down to really my question. What can 8 this Court do? What can we do to help fix -- fix your issue? 9 And you're saying either pay the defense attorneys more -- 10 yeah? 11 MR. CAVAZOS: That could be one answer, yes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Or appoint them 13 and -- the old, regular way. 14 MR. CAVAZOS: Correct. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's what you said. 16 So -- so -- 17 MR. CAVAZOS: What we have to discuss, Commissioner 18 Baldwin, is, is one defense attorney going to -- can we 19 always count on that one defense attorney? I mean, not just 20 for one month and we give you the next month off. I think 21 the system's better served if we have someone that, this is 22 your job; you're going to do it. You know you're going to 23 have it until the program fails. I think that that will make 24 the defense attorney work. Right now we're going back and 25 forth, and I think it's gotten overwhelming, and it's only 10-26-09 100 1 human nature for an individual to think, well I wonder if I'm 2 going to get this next month or not. I think if we make it a 3 job for someone, that helps. Or if we just appoint it the 4 regular way we were doing things, you've been appointed; now 5 it's your duty to dispose of this case from start to finish. 6 Because what we were doing now is, the defense attorney who's 7 on call for that month would investigate the case, and then 8 it would be appointed to another attorney. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. CAVAZOS: In other words, Johnny is told, 11 "Well, Johnny, I'm your attorney. You're with me, you know, 12 unless you hire another attorney. I've been appointed to 13 represent you." Versus, "I'm the jail attorney. I'm 14 representing you." You know, "If you don't like this deal, 15 you'll be appointed a different attorney." Maybe some of 16 these individuals go back and hear jailhouse lawyers talk to 17 them and think, oh, well, now maybe I'll get appointed the 18 defense attorney that I want. And, you know, let me see if I 19 can get a better deal. Because I was a defense attorney for 20 a while; I know how the game is. A lot of these individuals 21 think that if they get a certain attorney, the deal's going 22 to get better. And believe me, I'll let the secret out right 23 away, that's not the case. I don't care how much money you 24 pay; it's still going to be the same. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're in here promoting 10-26-09 101 1 a public defender. 2 MR. CAVAZOS: I think this county should have a 3 public defender's office, because you've got 90 percent of 4 the presiding docket being disposed of by Court-appointed 5 lawyers. I think that you should have a public defender's 6 office. And it can't just be one attorney; it's going to be 7 maybe three, four. I don't know. I haven't investigated 8 that matter. But other counties that have their dockets, 9 when 90 percent of the cases are being appointed, I think the 10 County is throwing away money by just appointing it to a 11 whole bunch of -- I know I'm going to have an "X" mark in the 12 crosshairs on the back of my shoulders today, but you need a 13 public defender's office because you're appointing too many 14 cases to defense attorneys. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, actually, I agree with 16 that 100 percent. We're going to have those conversations 17 later on. What my question is right now, though, is, is it 18 possible to have a public defender just for the jail issue 19 without getting into the other courts? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good question. 21 MR. CAVAZOS: We'd have to look into that, and I'd 22 have to discuss that with Mr. Barton and Mr. Curry and the 23 judges, and -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you discuss that with them? 25 MR. CAVAZOS: I will if you want me to, of course. 10-26-09 102 1 I think -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: It's one option we need to look at. 3 MR. CAVAZOS: I think I suggested that a long time 4 ago, and I think if the Sheriff remembers, he can tell you 5 that I suggested it a long time ago. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He has a bad memory 7 sometimes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's -- 9 MR. CAVAZOS: I think -- well, maybe it will jog 10 his memory if -- he said that he looked into it a long time 11 ago, I think in Del Rio or Eagle Pass. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Del Rio. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we're just now 14 getting to the point to where we're getting big enough to 15 maybe consider a public defender's offers. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I think we should have 17 the conversation. At least have the conversation. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought about it a while 19 back, and -- but it seems like that we're just almost to that 20 point. And in the dollars that we could afford to spend on 21 that, that would off -- you know, that would kind of work 22 better than what we're doing now, because we're spending a 23 lot of money on Court-appointed attorneys. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True. 25 MR. CAVAZOS: 'Cause then -- 10-26-09 103 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who does the public defender 2 report to? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Us, I hope. I'm sure it's 4 not. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just curious. I mean, 6 the Sheriff's shaking his head no. Where does it belong in 7 the system? Anyone know? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's funded normally by the 9 county, but they don't -- they'll have their own boss, 10 whoever they hire that runs that office. It's a defense 11 office. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's a hired person, not 13 an elected person. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's hired by somebody. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By Commissioners Court. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By Commissioners Court, okay. 17 So, the -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's funded by y'all, but -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the person -- I mean, the 20 individual -- the person running that department is going to 21 be a department head under the Commissioners Court. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. It's going to be -- 23 usually would be a department head. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just think this is 25 such an important issue that I'm going to see if anybody else 10-26-09 104 1 in the audience has a comment to make, or questions, or 2 answers. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: We need all the input we can get. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, we do. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And the Sheriff. You have some 6 comments? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I do. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Questions? Concerns? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to give you a -- kind 10 of where we are this morning, for one, let you know, and let 11 you know a couple of the things that I've seen. One is the 12 overall population of the Kerr County Jail as of 8 o'clock 13 this morning was 158. In-house, in our current facility 14 right here, we have 153. The other five are either sent out 15 on bench warrants somewhere or in mental hospitals or 16 something like that, such as Mr. Seard. Currently, the 216th 17 District Court has 39 unadjudicated inmates in our jail. 18 That's 39 that have not been sentenced. Of those 39, 12 of 19 those have over 100 days in jail. Most of those -- several 20 of them are at 370 days, 360 days. That's part of the 21 organized crime murder case that I understand is taking a 22 while due to the transcripts. The 198th has 37 unadjudicated 23 inmates. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your first numbers were for 25 216th? 10-26-09 105 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 216th has 39 in custody, 2 unadjudicated, 12 of those with over 100 days. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The 198th has 37, with 7 of 5 those over 100 days. County Court at Law has 27 6 unadjudicated. Now, one thing you have to look at with 7 County Court at Law, the majority of those also have one or 8 -- or are also in one or two of the other felony courts, and 9 some of the ones in felony courts are in both felony courts, 10 okay? Gillespie County has 15 in jail. Parole has 8. Not 11 filed in any court at this time is 11. Now, those are ones 12 that may have come in over the weekend, since Friday, or the 13 ones officers went out and got J.P. warrants for or something 14 like that, and those four, and then we have five other. And 15 the other may be child support, motions for enforcement, or 16 they're here on another county's warrant waiting to get 17 transferred back to that other county. So, that's where we 18 are right now, okay. Population has gone up. 19 One thing that -- and with our newly appointed 20 judge sitting here, I hope he hears this. One thing that 21 hurts us all and slows us down -- and one example just 22 occurred Thursday or Friday. Lucy could probably even 23 expound on it. I have one in jail, been there 181 days, and 24 Thursday or Friday they gave him a new attorney, so now 25 everything went on hold. Everything's back to ground zero. 10-26-09 106 1 He gets a new attorney; we start all over. He already had an 2 attorney for all the time, but he didn't like it, so they 3 changed it. Those things hurt, and those slow it down a lot, 4 okay? I don't think we have any incompetent attorneys in 5 this county. I think we've got one of the best group of 6 defense attorneys there are. In a lot of ways, they work 7 hard. But, you know, that kind of thing does hurt and does 8 slow the docket down. But, yeah, I've seen it slow down a 9 lot in the last couple months, and that's been the problem. 10 We were at 95, okay, there for a while, and that was counting 11 all those that had been adjudicated, had been everything. 12 That was total population was 95. So, Buster, when you said, 13 you know, it went up some, or some said "Well, it didn't go 14 up that much," well, the difference is our overall total 15 population in-house and out-of-house had hit 95. Now it's 16 158. It has gone up drastically. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I hoped you had 19 David Cavazos. And I see Lucy sitting here; I think she can 20 help explain it. And I even see Ms. Desprez sitting in the 21 back, one of the defense attorneys, and I think they need to 22 also have the opportunity to say how they feel. You know, I 23 can't make it move; all I can do is make them all mad at me 24 by hollering, so that's normally what happens. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Better you than us. 10-26-09 107 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I'm trying to shift that 2 now. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know it. 4 MS. UECKER: Could some of that have something to 5 do with -- and maybe not -- you know, with our judge 6 transition, not having one in 198th? That -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That started primarily last 8 week, week before, okay? We saw this trend going up before 9 the judge opening started. Now, you know, it's just 10 unfortunate the judge -- you do have a lot of visiting judges 11 coming in now that did that, and I think that's going to slow 12 us down the remainder of the year, because there's very 13 limited -- the State had very limited funds for visiting 14 judges. And the rumor I heard last week, because they have 15 been filling the two -- or the 198th with visiting judges, is 16 that that fund is now depleted for the year. You're talking 17 September till next September. So, it may be very hard to 18 get the visiting judges to come in and do the jail docket 19 shortly, because that's whose been doing our jail docket. 20 And if that funding cuts off, then all that stuff is going to 21 hurt, because we're not going to have the judges around to be 22 able to do it until the Legislature divides this county and 23 gives either Kerr County its own district court to handle all 24 these cases, or divides it up in another way that's equitable 25 population-wise, like they've been talking about, and give us 10-26-09 108 1 more court days. We're never going to -- you know, we're 2 going to build jails outright, because normally they like to 3 see population at about 50,000 per district, okay? 4 Kerr County's got 50,000 by itself now, and we're 5 sharing our district courts with Gillespie, Bandera, and 6 Kendall is one, and then, of course, Mason, Menard, you know, 7 Junction, Brady with the other one. And we're hurting. We 8 don't have the judges here, and then they've got civil 9 dockets on top of that. So, if we don't have these visiting 10 judges do it, those judges are somewhere else each week or -- 11 or each few days, and we're averaging -- Lucy can attest to 12 this. Probably we're lucky if we get to have six or eight 13 jury trials a year. It's going to get worse and worse. 14 We're going to look at building a new building. 15 MR. CAVAZOS: If I may? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 17 MR. CAVAZOS: I think we had discussed that issue 18 about the districts being -- having two D.A.'s creates 19 problems in turf wars, but we had also discussed -- and I'm 20 not going to say who was present in that discussion, but as 21 far as having more judges, getting another district judge may 22 be difficult, but the Commissioners can take care of that, I 23 think, by creating another county court judge, and those 24 felony cases can be referred over to that county court to 25 help take care of the docket and reduce the docket. I think 10-26-09 109 1 that would be helpful. That county court could also take 2 care of jail cases. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Spencer, could he be used 4 more than two days a week? 5 MS. WILKE: Lucy Wilke. Good morning. I want to 6 respond first to what Rusty pointed out, that we -- it does 7 become a problem. I don't think it's as much of a problem 8 now as it used to be, where defendants come to court and they 9 don't like their attorney because they haven't gotten them a 10 good deal; they think they need a better deal with another 11 attorney. I have always, always, always had a policy that I 12 always stick to, and that is you do not get a better deal 13 because you get another attorney, and I stick to it 100 14 percent. I also have a policy that I oppose somebody getting 15 a new attorney unless there's a legitimate reason. In this 16 particular case that Rusty was talking about, this week -- I 17 haven't had time to visit with Rusty today, or since 18 Thursday, but that was a legitimate conflict. We were set to 19 do a plea. This guy had been in jail for over 100 days, and 20 this is -- I'm going to tell you how many cases I have on the 21 regular docket and what people are in there for. The jail 22 docket is intended for -- for more the petty criminal, you 23 might want to say. You might want to say, well, you know, 24 felonies -- how can you call felonies "petty criminal"? But 25 we're talking about state jail felonies. 10-26-09 110 1 Our office has a policy, which I strictly enforce, 2 and that is no probation for violent offenders, no probation 3 for sex offenders, and no probation for drug dealers. And I 4 stick to it, and I think I'm called hard-nosed about it. I 5 know I read some minutes that said that some defendants like 6 to wait and get a better plea offer as they get closer to 7 trial, but I pled through my three defendants that were set 8 for trial last week -- I had three defendants. I pled them 9 all, and they pled to what I originally offered them. Their 10 deal didn't get better because they sat in jail, I can tell 11 you. I didn't even know I was going to be here today. I 12 didn't know that this discussion was happening until I read 13 the minutes of the Commissioners Court meeting Wednesday. By 14 Wednesday, I had already pled out all my cases, and I was 15 ready to just get -- go to bed, get up Thursday morning and 16 do all my pleas, so it's nothing that I did in response to 17 this. It's not like I saw that Commissioners Court wanted to 18 hear from us, and I better get to work. That had already 19 been done by the time I knew this was even an issue. But one 20 defendant pled out to 40 years confinement in prison. That 21 means he has to serve 20 years flat before he becomes 22 eligible for parole. Another defendant pled out to 20 years, 23 which is what I had originally offered this summer. His deal 24 did not get any better. And then the other guy pled out to 25 10 years. His deal didn't get any better either. 10-26-09 111 1 Well, what happens, though, you have to understand 2 that the defendants live in the here and now. They don't 3 think that they're really going to go to prison, or they, in 4 their mind, listen to the jailhouse attorney instead of their 5 attorneys and think that if they sit it out, that they're 6 going to get a better deal. And it's not until their 7 attorneys say, "Okay, we better get ready for trial. Call 8 your mama, because she's going to have to come testify at 9 your punishment phase." They go, "Okay, you know that 40 10 deal? I'll take it." And, if I say, "No," you know, "that 11 40 deal was withdrawn when you did not take it three months 12 or six months ago," then I'm going to clog up the docket. 13 Because let's say the 40-year guy, if I had said, "No, I'm 14 not going to let you plead out to that 40 that you rejected 15 three months ago because you should have taken it then," you 16 know, we're going to trial. Because that's going to teach 17 all the other defendants that you better take my plea offer 18 when I give it to you three months ago. And then we try him. 19 Well, my plea offer was reasonable when I made it. So, what 20 happens is, we may go to trial and we may get less than 40 21 years. We may go to trial; we may get a hung jury. Or we 22 may go to trial; we may get life, but we've disposed of only 23 one defendant. 24 Now, if we dispose of him, because I disposed of 25 him, I was able to go to the second guy and say, "Okay, 10-26-09 112 1 you're number one now, because the other guy pled." And he 2 says, "Oh, okay. Okay, I'll take the 20 years you offered." 3 I could say, "No, you should have taken the 20 years when I 4 offered them three months ago. You're going to trial now." 5 But instead, I say, okay, I'll go ahead -- you can go ahead 6 and take the 20 years that I offered, because that was 7 reasonable then and it's reasonable now. Then I get to go to 8 the third one, and now I've cleared all my in-custody 9 defendants, and I get to work on the out-of-custody. I pled, 10 I would say, 90 percent of the people on the docket. The 11 others, we didn't have a trial. The others were reset or 12 continued because the defense attorney had a legitimate 13 conflict or there was another legitimate reason, but we 14 cleared a three-page docket and left probably about two or 15 three, four people not disposed of. So, our docket is moving 16 quickly. 17 Another thing I saw in the Commissioners Court 18 meeting was a discussion about negotiations. Somebody said 19 they didn't like the negotiations. And, as I said earlier, I 20 take -- what I do is I look at the offense report, I look at 21 the criminal history. I'm married to a police officer, so I 22 have a lot of contact with law enforcement. They're very 23 comfortable saying -- calling me up on my cell phone, saying, 24 "Hey, guess what?" So, I also know a lot of history on some 25 of these people. Maybe they don't have a criminal history, 10-26-09 113 1 but I know they're up to a lot more than -- than what I see 2 on paper. So, when I get it, I make a plea offer that I 3 think is reasonable, and, however, that can change. And let 4 me give you -- but it's very, very seldom. That can change. 5 And here's just a hypothetical, and this is a true 6 story. It's not one of my cases, but this is a true story. 7 We had a sexual assault of a -- we didn't, but the case is a 8 sexual assault of a, I think, 15- or 16-year-old girl. It's 9 a pure "he-said, she-said," is what we call it. She says it 10 happened. He's not talking. So, we go to trial. We have to 11 put the 15-year-old girl on the stand if it goes to trial, 12 and he gets to sit there and say nothing, 'cause he's got -- 13 it's constitutional -- a right to remain silent. However, he 14 has a prior. He's previously been on probation for the same 15 thing and successfully completed it. So, he probably did it. 16 I think he did it. However -- so I make him a plea offer, 17 and I make him, let's say, a prison plea offer. And, again 18 this isn't my case; I'm just, you know, giving you a 19 hypothetical. Let's say I make him a prison plea offer, 20 'cause he's done this before. And, sure, I've got a 21 15-year-old, and the -- the verdict's going to be based 22 solely on her credibility, but I'm going to make him a prison 23 time offer, 'cause I think it's worthy of it and I think a 24 jury might do that. 25 However, as we get closer to trial -- and, again, a 10-26-09 114 1 lot of these negotiations take place as you get closer to 2 trial, because just like we're putting out fires, so is the 3 defense bar. They have other cases, other hearings, other 4 places to be. Prosecutors, defense attorneys are always 5 putting out fires. As we're getting closer to trial, we're 6 getting ready for trial, they're getting ready for trial, and 7 the defense attorney comes to me and says, "Oh, have you seen 8 these C.P.S. reports? Your complainant, about three years 9 ago, made a false allegation that her mother physically 10 abused her." And -- and you go to your complainant and say, 11 "Is that true or is that not true?" And your complainant 12 says, "Yes, it is. I did. I lied and I said that my mother 13 was physically assaulting me so that I could go live with my 14 father. I didn't like living with her. I didn't like her 15 new boyfriend and I wanted to get out." That's where you 16 go -- and a defense attorney would say, you know, "Can I have 17 that probation plea offer?" And, of course, you go, "Sure, 18 let's do it right now," before your client changes her mind. 19 Because you've got things like that that are brought to your 20 attention that maybe you didn't see when you first made the 21 plea offer, but you see later. 22 Another example, and this was one of my cases. I 23 have -- a girl was stopped, a traffic stop. Car was 24 searched. I don't even remember why the stop led to the 25 search, but her car was searched, and some Vicodin -- some 10-26-09 115 1 painkillers were found in a small container under her seat. 2 And, of course, she says, "Hey, I don't know where those came 3 from." But she gets charged; she even gets indicted. And so 4 I make what I think is a very lenient probation plea offer, a 5 deferred without a conviction. Her history -- which is not 6 going to come in unless we get to the punishment stage, so we 7 have to get a conviction first. History shows she's had some 8 issues, some dismissals with some drug cases in the past. So 9 -- so, what she was probably doing is probably sneaking some 10 of her mother's painkillers -- her grandmother's painkillers 11 and taking them for herself, maybe sharing them with friends, 12 maybe even selling them; I don't know. So, she's indicted. 13 I make her a very lenient deferred adjudication plea offer, 14 and her attorney comes to me and says, "I've got a sworn 15 statement from her little old grandmother," and you read it, 16 and sure enough, it's sworn, and she -- he gives me a copy of 17 her prescription, and sure enough, she has a prescription for 18 it. And she says, you know, "I carry my pills in that little 19 container, and they must have fallen out of my purse when I 20 was in my daughter's car." Well, at this point, you go, "I 21 don't know that I'm going to be able to convince 12 people 22 beyond a reasonable doubt that that's not the truth." I'm 23 not even convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, so I dismiss 24 this case. So, the negotiations do happen. They don't 25 happen often, and there's always extenuating circumstances 10-26-09 116 1 for them. 2 Parole. As far as parole, people who are in jail 3 on parole warrants, Parole will not do anything with their 4 case. They wait for us to dispose of our case. So, if 5 anybody is sitting there on a parole warrant, they're not 6 really being held up because of the parole warrant. Parole 7 waits to see what we're going to do, and then they go from 8 there. Let me just kind of tell you, the jail docket is 9 intended for, like I said, nonviolent, petty criminals, and 10 it's not intended for people who are not deserving of a 11 lenient plea offer. Not intended for sex offenders, not 12 intended for violent offenders, and not intended for drug 13 dealers, other than if they're state jail felonies. But drug 14 dealers -- first-degree, second-degree drug dealers, those -- 15 they're not appropriate for the jail docket, because the 16 purpose of the jail docket is to make good deals, the kind of 17 deals that you can't turn down. 18 And if you'll -- I was looking through all the 19 records to see what kind of people have been pleading out. 20 What kind of deals have they been pleading out to? And 21 people who plead on that jail docket plead to minimums, for 22 the most part, or very close to it. Many of them plea out to 23 six months in the state jail. That's the absolute minimum 24 you can get. And they get credit for time served. For 25 example, I saw one on there that had five and a half months 10-26-09 117 1 credit for time served. How can somebody turn that down? 2 How can you turn that down? You're going to be home in a 3 couple weeks, and you do not have to deal with probation any 4 more, and you're not even going to be on parole. So, that's 5 the kind of -- those are the kind of people that are on that 6 jail docket. People who are maybe not necessarily deserving 7 of a -- you know, being off in two weeks, but people that we 8 can stomach getting out of the jail quickly to avoid having 9 to build a new jail. We can stomach it. And maybe they're 10 not really deserving of it. They haven't done their 11 probation properly; they still owe the County a lot of money. 12 But, certainly, we prefer to get them out more quickly than 13 somebody who does home invasions, somebody who's in for 14 murders. So -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Lucy, real quick -- and I hate 16 to interrupt you, but that's not what the jail docket was 17 meant for. The jail docket was to -- to move inmates, 18 period, that wanted to admit their guilt, regardless of what 19 their sentence was going to be. There have been a lot of 20 them sentenced with long terms in prison, because they're -- 21 you know, they want to admit it. Yes, a lot of them are 22 state jail ones, but you'll get some 20-year sentences. It's 23 just to move those that don't want to sit there and just sit 24 there accumulating time, waiting for a trial docket. If they 25 wanted to admit their guilt and they're going to plead to 10-26-09 118 1 life -- you know, you had one the other day that pled to the 2 80 life sentences. I mean, it's just -- that person's not 3 going to trial, but it was -- it's to move the docket, 4 period. It's not just on lenient ones. 5 MS. WILKE: But that wasn't the jail docket 6 agreement. All the ones I saw were not 20-year sentences. I 7 think the most I've seen is a five-year sentence, and that 8 was somebody who was -- had been on probation for felony DWI, 9 had -- was on probation, looking at 10 years for a felony 10 DWI, had been extended for four years, and committed another 11 felony DWI, and he agreed to five. He'll be out in a year 12 and a half. So, it is lenient. That's not as lenient as a 13 six-month, but, you know, that 20-year offer, those weren't 14 jail docket cases. I've had cases plead to life too, because 15 they get something in return; they don't get stacked. I've 16 had people plead, and to plead guilty, they're getting 17 something in return, not stacking. So, those cases I handle 18 on my regular docket. And I'm going to visit with Rusty 19 after we finish here, because his numbers that he gave us 20 this morning are a little different from mine. Of course, my 21 list is from Friday. I printed a list of Friday's jail 22 population. I took it home this weekend and kind of looked 23 at it, went to the offers and looked some of these things up 24 to see what our people pleading to that are getting disposed 25 of on the jail dockets. 10-26-09 119 1 Here's what I have. I have taken out the six 2 organized crime people. Those are over 100 days, but there's 3 nothing I can do about it. They're on hold until these 4 transcripts are finished, and there's not a thing I can do 5 about it, so I've taken those out. I show 12 jail docket 6 cases and 10 regular docket cases. These are -- I went 7 through the list and said, "Okay, this is not disposed of, 8 but this is on the jail docket. This is not disposed of, but 9 this is on the regular docket." Here are the people I 10 have -- the 10 people I have on the regular docket. Kevin 11 Abbott, who's been in jail for 160 -- 106 days. He was 12 indicted September 25th and is set for trial in January. I 13 don't remember the exact day in January. He's in jail for 14 unauthorized use of a motor vehicle, credit card abuse, 15 aggravated robbery, and a burglary of a habitation, which was 16 a home invasion, is what I recall. This is somebody that 17 needs to go to prison for a long time, and this is somebody 18 that needs to be in jail pending going to prison. He is set 19 for January, and hopefully he'll either plead or we'll try 20 him then. 21 Billy Gene Baker, he's been in there for 64 days. 22 He was indicted August 21st, six indictments for sexual 23 assault of a child, and he is also set for trial in January. 24 So, hopefully I'll be able to get him in and dispose of him 25 then, too. Also on the regular docket is Anthony Baldwin. 10-26-09 120 1 He's been in jail for 36 days. This is a delivery of a 2 controlled substance, over 4 grams, meaning it's a 3 first-degree felony. Mr. Baldwin is a frequent customer, and 4 he needs -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No relation to the 6 Commissioner. 7 MS. WILKE: No. No. He needs -- he also needs to 8 go away for a long time. David Casillas, he has been in jail 9 for 75 days. He's set for trial in January, and he is 10 actually serving a one-year sentence in the county jail out 11 of a misdemeanor case, which, obviously, this is a bad guy. 12 He deserves the maximum, 365 days -- I think it's 349, but 13 he's a bad guy; he needs to be in jail, and he needed that 14 almost full year in the county jail on his misdemeanors. 15 He's also set for trial in January, and hopefully I'll get to 16 him. Marcia Grant, that's the murder case. I think some of 17 you may have read about it in the paper, the woman that 18 kicked her roommate to death. She was -- she's only been in 19 jail for three days. I anticipate that she'll be set for 20 trial in January. She'll be arraigned in November, and then 21 she'll be set for trial in January. I'm going to ask the 22 Judge to set her in January. 23 Sean Michael Jasso, that's the one that got a new 24 attorney appointed. He has been in jail -- and that 25 attorney, again, had a legitimate conflict. We could not 10-26-09 121 1 proceed even if we wanted to. The Judge really didn't have 2 any choice but to allow him to withdraw. Otherwise, we'd be 3 looking at a reversal, 99 percent chance. I can tell you I 4 oppose them. I had one attorney come up to me and say, 5 "Lucy, I wanted to kick you in the rear for opposing my 6 motion to withdraw." A lot of times they develop a conflict 7 with their clients, and understandably want to withdraw, but 8 we just can't start all over. Sometimes I agree, as long as 9 the new attorney says that they're not going to delay it; 10 they're not going to ask for a continuance and we're going to 11 go forward, even with a new attorney. So, if they want to do 12 that, that's fine. And sometimes I even say, "Well, if 13 you'll forego your Court-appointed attorney's fees and let me 14 start all over, I'll also agree to it as well." 15 Sean Jasso, in jail 178 days. This is kind of a 16 unique case. Mr. Jasso is on probation, and I don't remember 17 what he's on probation for, but what happened -- felony out 18 of our court. What happened was, we filed a motion to revoke 19 in June, I believe. It was about June 30th, if I remember 20 the date correctly. But, anyway, it's been a long time. We 21 filed a motion to revoke his probation. Shortly after we 22 filed a motion to revoke his probation, in December there had 23 been a drive-by shooting at an officer's house -- Kerrville 24 Police officer's house. Somebody had gone by his house 25 Christmas Eve and shot into his home. A drive-by. That's 10-26-09 122 1 what you hear about in San Antonio, not in Kerrville, but 2 that happened. And so we filed our motion to revoke, and 3 slowly we started getting some information that he might be 4 involved. And that was the good work of one of Sheriff 5 Hierholzer's investigators. I didn't think we would ever 6 solve it. And he was persistent and he stayed with it, but 7 it took some time. 8 You know, he at first got no -- nowhere. Then he 9 had people lying to him, and we had people coming in and 10 lying under oath to the grand jury. And then we had him out 11 on bond and rearrested. Anyway, he's put a lot of work into 12 it, but it's taken time. It hasn't been overnight. We 13 don't, at this point, have enough evidence to indict him, I 14 don't think, but we certainly want to use that as punishment 15 evidence in our motion to revoke. When the Judge decides how 16 long he's going to revoke him to, he needs to hear that he 17 was the shooter in the drive-by at an officer's house. So, 18 he has been appointed a new attorney. Attorneys are only 19 entitled to 10 days to get ready for trial. I expect to hear 20 that case in November and dispose of it then. That's the one 21 that we were set for a plea, and then, new attorney. 22 We also have Lionel Lopez. This guy -- I said I 23 don't offer probation to drug dealers. Well, there's always 24 very, very rare and few exceptions. This particular guy, I 25 was going to have a hard time proving that he was actually 10-26-09 123 1 really the guy -- to make a long story short, law enforcement 2 stops these guys. The other guy has the dope on him. He 3 says, "Lionel Lopez threw to it me." Well, all you have is 4 Lionel -- the other criminal saying another criminal -- "It's 5 the other guy." Nothing else. So, I went ahead and offered 6 him probation, even though I knew that he -- he's a drug 7 dealer. So, what happened is, six days after he's put on 8 probation, he is delivering drugs in a drug-free zone. And I 9 believe it's going to be -- it's not a first-degree; it's a 10 third-degree. Six days after being put on probation. This 11 is somebody that is not deserving of a lenient sentence. 12 This is somebody that needs to go to prison for a long time. 13 We are waiting for some lab results in a new case, so that 14 one still has not been indicted. However, we did recently 15 get the lab results, so that should be indicted in November. 16 Andrew Pieper is also a home invasion case. He's 17 only been in jail for 38 days, and he's set for trial in 18 January. Tevin Sorell, he shows in jail for 86 days, but our 19 MTR -- our felony case only got filed October the 15th. He 20 was in there on some misdemeanors. He disposed of those, and 21 then we immediately filed our motion to revoke October the 22 15th. And I already have a plea agreement set out. We were 23 going to try -- we brought him over to the courthouse on 24 Thursday to try to work that out and get him out of the jail 25 and on his way; however, there was a little glitch. We got 10-26-09 124 1 it worked out Friday, and so we're going to try to plead him 2 either in Bandera County -- on our Bandera County docket, or 3 get some other setting, but we're going to take care of him 4 this week. 5 Bernard Ty Greeno is another case that's set on my 6 docket. That one came over to me just a few days ago. 7 That's one of those cases where David Cavazos could not work 8 out an agreement, so if he can't work out an agreement on his 9 jail docket, then he bumps it over to me; says, "Here, you 10 take it, 'cause it's going to require a contested hearing." 11 And he -- I didn't know he wasn't going to get set in October 12 until I got to court. I said, "Where's Bernard Ty Greeno?" 13 And I was advised he's not set until November. But, anyway, 14 the jail docket I show has 12 cases. Now, one of those may 15 be a regular docket case, because I show that Vandemark has 16 been in jail for -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Wilke, I'm not sure we need all 18 this detail. I appreciate it. And maybe it was my mistake 19 by -- by not giving you a time limit, as you're used to 20 having by the judges. 21 MS. WILKE: All right. I'll be happy -- I'll be 22 happy to answer any questions, any points about it. You 23 know, we are moving our cases quickly. I agree that maybe a 24 public defender would be a good idea, because that way you've 25 got somebody who, like me, has a -- has somewhere to be every 10-26-09 125 1 day, and that is prosecuting felony cases. If you have a 2 public defender, they have one place to be, but it's going to 3 require paying them a salary of a public defender. That's 4 going to be their job. I can tell you that the 198th has not 5 been using the jail docket at all. I think they're going to 6 start. I think I've seen two cases -- two of their cases on 7 their jail docket. I think -- after discussions with them, I 8 think they're going to start using it now, but they have not 9 been using the jail docket, at least not on any of the 10 dockets that I've looked at. And I think they're going to 11 start doing that, so I think that might help. But I thank 12 you for your time. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Lucy. 14 MS. WILKE: Any time y'all have any questions, I 15 want each one of you to feel free to call me. You can call 16 me at my office. Call me and I'll come and sit down and 17 visit with you. I'm always happy to answer questions. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She visits like this over 20 the phone, too, by the way. (Laughter.) You know, I'm 21 amazed. I just want to make one point, Judge. Her last 22 statement, that 198th hasn't been that engaged in this thing 23 for a while, but they're beginning to. Both of them said 24 that, and they -- and they only have 25 cases as well -- or 25 they have 37 people sitting there. That's amazing to me, 10-26-09 126 1 however that works. They're not out there really humping it 2 like the 216th people are. Their numbers are low. I don't 3 know. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, you suggested 5 opening this up for everybody to get their two cents worth in 6 here, and so I guess we're obliged to see if there are 7 others -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Desprez is here. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the audience that wish to be 10 heard. 11 MS. DESPREZ: I'll be happy to answer any 12 questions, or tell you my thoughts about the matter. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell us your thoughts about 14 the matter. 15 MS. DESPREZ: Well, first -- and echoing a lot of 16 what Mr. Cavazos said, it has turned out to be a lot more 17 work than we thought originally. We started in -- March? Is 18 that about when we started? And I think it was pretty smooth 19 in the spring and the summer. I think there's a natural dip 20 then in the amount of arrests and people in jail. But then 21 in July and August, we got through a lot of people, and Lucy 22 Pearson and myself, we alternate months, so I wasn't -- I 23 wasn't here; I wasn't involved in the jail docket in 24 September. Then, when I took over on October 5th, there was 25 12 people to see on one day, a few more the next day. It was 10-26-09 127 1 a lot -- a little too much to get -- to get going. And that 2 may be just the month of October. It may be that there was a 3 lot of holdovers from September. I don't know why suddenly 4 the jail docket has gone up, but I think there's some 5 seasonal flux. I think that's it. I'm always busy in 6 September, October. It's always much busier than the summer. 7 And the other issue that he raised, which is the 8 monetary compensation, for us as defense attorneys, it turns 9 out to be much less than we would earn taking Court-appointed 10 cases. And we can't take Court-appointed cases while we're 11 working the jail docket; the judges don't appoint us. So, 12 therefore, we give up that portion of our income to do the 13 jail docket that month. And because we are the only two 14 defense attorneys that stepped forward and said we wanted to 15 be involved with this, that means I have that every other 16 month. So, basically, I don't have any more criminal felony 17 appointments, so that's taken, you know, a big portion of my 18 income. Which I -- and if it was -- as he said, if you knew 19 you were going to have this 12 months out of the year, then 20 you don't worry about doing other criminal cases, and just 21 get out of that business, and you just work as the jailhouse 22 defense attorney -- that may be a little derogatory -- the 23 jail docket defense attorney, and that would be okay. But 24 right now, with a long -- you know, with the other cases, and 25 we don't know from month to month whether we're going to be 10-26-09 128 1 appointed for the next month, whether it's going to continue, 2 that makes it a little complicated. 3 And this month, October, has been extremely 4 difficult for me, and I've had to share with David that I 5 couldn't do it last week. There's two trials going on 6 upstairs that I'm assisting with, and so that was a little -- 7 it was hard this month. I think it's a necessary thing. I 8 think it's good for defendants. I'm there to protect their 9 rights and make sure that everything is on the up-and-up and 10 that they agree to plea willingly, and that they know what 11 they're doing and that everything's okay with their case, and 12 sometimes that takes longer than a week. Sometimes it takes 13 two weeks to dispose of a case. But I'm not there to twist 14 their arm and push them into -- into pleading to an offer, 15 even when sometimes I think that they got a great offer. 16 Sometimes they do not want it, and I can't -- I can't do 17 anything about that. So, I think having one person do it all 18 the time is probably the best solution. I think that you 19 have to get someone who really wants to do it and they're 20 committed to it, and I think that will make the difference. 21 Appointing a different attorney for each person on the jail 22 docket is not going to work; it's going to be too much money, 23 and most defense attorneys might say, "Well, I'll just wait." 24 You know, "I'll get five or six more hours here going over to 25 the normal docket." I mean, that's -- that's probably, you 10-26-09 129 1 know, hard to say, but that's the truth. I mean, we have to 2 -- we have to make a living, and that's just the way it 3 works. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Thank you very 5 much -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for your service. 8 Appreciate it. Thanks. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm going to let you close 10 this thing up, Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's closed. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, it's closed? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any member of the Court have 15 anything further to offer on this? Okay. Why don't we try 16 and knock down a couple more items here. We'll go to Item 17 12, to consider, discuss, take appropriate concerning the 18 appeal from Kerr County to the Texas Water Development Board 19 on the desired future conditions set by Groundwater 20 Management Area 9 for the Edwards-Trinity, Ellenberger, and 21 Hickory aquifers. Mr. Letz? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very short on this. The 23 hearing is set for next Monday at 10 o'clock. Jody, you 24 might post that as a Commissioners Court meeting in case the 25 Commissioners and Judge want to attend. The -- it's kind of 10-26-09 130 1 all I have. I mean, the appeal is being worked out 2 between -- or that verbiage part of it -- between myself and 3 Ray Buck kind of coordinated it using their outside counsel, 4 Anthony Corbett. And I visited with -- briefly with Rex and 5 Ilse last week, and visited with Ilse a little bit more. I 6 think there may be a little part I'd like to have them 7 present as well, and a couple of issues, one related to 8 subdivision rules and water availability and what this does 9 to our interpretation of that, and possibly another issue of 10 proper posting of an agenda item for the action taken under 11 the August 29th meeting, 2008. A question has come up as to 12 whether -- whether the GMA-9 posted one of its meetings 13 correctly -- not the meeting correctly, one of the agenda 14 items correctly. Other than that, we're just getting ready 15 for it. We'll be there Monday. That's it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nope. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll move to Item 13, to 19 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 20 contract with Kerr Economic Development Foundation, K'Star, 21 CASA, Comfort VFD, Elm Pass VFD, Center Point VFD, Castle 22 Lake VFD, Mountain Home VFD, Hunt VFD, Ingram VFD, and Tierra 23 Linda VFD, and allow County Judge to sign the same. Have you 24 had an opportunity to review these contracts, Mr. Emerson? 25 MR. EMERSON: I think most of them are the standard 10-26-09 131 1 contracts, Your Honor. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As presented. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item to approve the listed contracts. 7 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 8 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 14, 13 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to establish a 14 local data advisory board pursuant to Senate Bill 1061. I 15 put this on the agenda as a result of communication that I 16 received from -- goodness, where did that come from? -- the 17 Texas D.P.S., pursuant to a recent enactment by the State 18 Legislature that requires us to do this, and to submit the 19 data reporting improvement plan no later than June 1, 2010. 20 But the -- we're required to establish a local data advisory 21 board for the individuals that are named in the statute for 22 that purpose. Those include the Sheriff or his designee; 23 a prosecutor, State's attorney, in the district court; a 24 prosecutor from the county courts; a clerk for the district 25 courts of the county; clerk of the county courts of the 10-26-09 132 1 county; police chief of the municipality with the greatest 2 population within the county, which, of course, would be city 3 of Kerrville, or his designee; a representative of the 4 County's automatic data processing services, if we perform 5 those services, and I, frankly, don't know whether we do or 6 not. If it is, it's going to be Mr. Trolinger. And then a 7 representative of an entity with whom we contract for those 8 services, if we contract for those services. And I'm going 9 to defer to John as to whether or not we contract for it or 10 provide it ourselves. My thinking is he probably does it. 11 MR. TROLINGER: The answer is both. We receive 12 support from our prime contractor, from Tyler Technologies. 13 So, I'm waiting -- waiting to hear back from them on who 14 they'll provide us with. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But it appears that our 16 Legislature has mandated that we do this. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, is that all? So, the 18 only -- the Sheriff has the opportunity to appoint someone to 19 be a representative of his office. Are we ready to do this? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: It says we got to do it by November 21 the -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let's do it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- November 1, I think. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there any reason that we 25 cannot do it right this moment? 10-26-09 133 1 JUDGE TINLEY: No, none whatsoever. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to appoint 3 somebody, Rusty, or are you going to -- your name is going to 4 be on there? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The way I understand it, I 6 think it's my name y'all put on there, and then if I have 7 another designee that might go to the meetings or sit in on 8 the group if I can't -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We just itemize them as per the 10 statute, "the Sheriff or his designee." 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then put John 12 Trolinger's name in there, and we're ready to rock. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. Do I hear a second? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that your motion? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And we have a second here? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion on the 21 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 22 right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-26-09 134 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Gentlemen, 2 we've got several more items to do, as well as our regular 3 financial items. What's the Court's desire? Blow through, 4 or come back after lunch? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to do Point 15. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then go to lunch? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then go to lunch. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause I think there's 10 probably a lot of people in here wanting to see what that 11 does. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll move to Item 15; 13 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on elected 14 official appointment. I would note that we have received 15 communication from the County Attorney notifying us that he 16 intends to resign effective Friday, October 30th, 2009, at 17 11 a.m. I think, under certain provisions of state law, at 18 this point we do not want to accept that resignation for fear 19 that it may trigger something, and it may prevent him from 20 being able to continue to function until that point in time. 21 So, I just merely make note of -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, if we 23 accepted it, even though this date is before us, it might 24 possibly be immediate? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd refer you to Judge Phil 10-26-09 135 1 Hardberger for that issue, and I think he'd probably tell 2 you, yeah, that's the way -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stay out of the way. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's the way the appellate 5 court said it works. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have never seen it. I 7 don't even want to look at it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But it -- we're just being put on 9 notice, kind of, sort of, is the way I see it. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: But being put on notice, it behooves 12 us to plan, I think. And it occurs to me that we should 13 serve notice that if, in fact, that occurs, and if someone 14 wishes to be considered for that position, they need to 15 provide us with their resumé, as it were, all of the 16 documentation that they feel like supports their position to 17 be appointed, and that they do it by a specified date so that 18 this Court may take reasonably prompt action. But I think 19 they need a reasonable period of time in which to do that. 20 Would you agree, Commissioner? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would. But I think we may 22 be separated a little bit over what a reasonable time might 23 be. But I definitely am in favor of giving everyone an 24 opportunity to apply; that's a given. But the point is, 25 let's say that we -- let's say that we give -- you know, it's 10-26-09 136 1 a two-week process, even, from -- and so from Friday, when 2 the County Attorney resigns, and at that time, at the end 3 of -- so we're uncovered for two weeks? We don't have an 4 attorney for two weeks? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we could have a special 6 meeting for that purpose. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could have a special 8 meeting, or we can appoint someone to fill that -- that term. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When's your -- the current term 10 up? 11 MR. EMERSON: Three years. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whoever is going to run for 13 that would have to run twice in four years. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have to run next year, 15 whoever it is. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next year or three years? You 17 just got reelected, right? 18 MR. EMERSON: Right, but whoever you appoint will 19 have to run in the March primary, have to run in the next 20 general election. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, like, we're expecting 23 Rex to resign this Friday at 11:00. Why can't we ask all the 24 folks that are interested to have a resumé or an application, 25 whatever it is, in here by this Friday? And then one week 10-26-09 137 1 later, having a special meeting to -- to do that, to appoint. 2 But I'm -- I'm uncomfortable about being -- not having an 3 attorney in here. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aren't you? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd prefer to have one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it possible to appoint an 9 interim? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. That's what I'm saying 11 to do. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Acting? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: An acting. And then make the 14 decision -- I mean, I would be much more comfortable having 15 somebody in that office -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All the time. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- at 10:01, I think -- or 18 11:01. 11:01. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, an interim with the 21 understanding that -- with some understanding that this 22 individual is not going to seek the position? Or an interim 23 for just a few hours, or a week or 10 days? What are we 24 talking about? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Short period, I would think, if 10-26-09 138 1 we're -- if we wanted to have it covered. I think upon the 2 effectiveness of the resignation of the current County 3 Attorney, we can designate someone to be the acting County 4 Attorney. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And then that gives us a period of 7 two weeks or whatever, whatever is appropriate to give people 8 an opportunity to -- to bring forward their credentials and 9 the resumés, and give us an opportunity to review them and 10 make -- make the appointment until -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The election. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the key. "Acting." 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Versus -- okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if we appointed -- let's 17 just say that we ask everybody to have their resumés in by 18 this coming Friday, and then in the meantime, you and whoever 19 will form some kind of little committee to look those over, 20 and then the following Friday, have a special Commissioners 21 Court meeting to make that appointment. So, we would just 22 have one week of an acting County Attorney. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be acceptable. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we really need to do that? 25 I mean, we have the assistant. The office is not going to be 10-26-09 139 1 vacated. It won't be any action, I don't believe, but there 2 will be -- you could call and get -- I mean, I'm just 3 throwing it out there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my concern would be 5 that there's -- as an elected office, there's constitutional 6 duties, and there's no one to fulfill those constitutional 7 duties unless we make an acting appointment. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's how I look at it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I'm -- I just wanted 12 to know, 'cause I can't really see it as being that big of an 13 emergency. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And if we name an acting, I think we 15 ought to give a little bit more time for those that are 16 interested. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you think lawyers can't 18 put their resumés together in five days? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, how long did it take the good 20 governor to do his deal? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're talking lawyers here, 22 not governors. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: There were lawyers involved, now. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, may -- it may give 25 the opportunity for more lawyers to put their resumés in 10-26-09 140 1 place. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say the second 3 meeting in November. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe not -- maybe not even that 5 late. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or have a special meeting; I 7 don't care. I'll be here whenever there's a meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have to meet to accept 9 the County Attorney's resignation, do we not? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can just resign. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do not? Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Our first meeting is going to be the 14 9th, which is -- in essence, is -- that's two weeks from 15 today, yeah. But, now, in that -- in that vein, we could 16 throw it off until sometime after the 9th. But I think you 17 ought to give at least 10 days -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- opportunity to -- to get these 20 resumés filed, and that, to me, would indicate a deadline of, 21 say, probably the -- say the 6th of November. We got an 22 election that's going to come in the meantime. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What date in November? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 6th. That's a Friday. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 10-26-09 141 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's just slightly more than 10 2 days. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Works for me. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we appoint an acting today? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. Sure. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Providing for the fact that 9 the County Attorney does resign? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, the agenda item 11 that's -- it says "action on elected official appointment." 12 It really -- I don't know if it covers all these other things 13 that we're talking about, these dates. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it does. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. That's 16 fine with me. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one facet of -- you know, we 18 can -- we can appoint an acting County Attorney to become 19 effective upon the vacation of the office by the existing 20 County Attorney until further action by the Court, with a 21 request that any applicants who are interested in that 22 position furnish their resumés to the Court on or before the 23 close of business on Friday, November the 6th, and will 24 thereafter make the appointment. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the motion? 10-26-09 142 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounded like he was making a 2 motion to me. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That sounds like the 4 structure of a motion, Judge. Only one thing missing, and 5 that's the name of the individual. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we appoint Ilse 7 Bailey as the acting -- whatever, with all that other stuff 8 you just said. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would second that. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You just filled in the name, right? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm filling in the name. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Motion and 14 second. Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 15 signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If and when our elected 20 County Attorney vacates his office, we're going to be looking 21 to you, Ms. Bailey. 22 MS. BAILEY: Thank you, Your Honor. And I 23 appreciate Mr. Baldwin's eloquent statement of that motion. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're quite welcome. 25 MS. BAILEY: Thank you. 10-26-09 143 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any time I can be of 2 assistance to you, you let me know. 3 MS. BAILEY: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we come back -- we'll be 5 in recess until about -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's say quarter till 2:00. 8 (Recess taken from 12:15 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 11 we might. We were in recess until 1:45. It is that time 12 now. Let's go to Item 16; consider, discuss, take 13 appropriate action on a proposed community collaborative 14 agreement between Hill Country Council on Alcohol and Drug 15 Abuse and Kerr County Court. I put this on at the request of 16 the Hill Country Council on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, 17 specifically Jeannie Stevens, who's been over there since -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Columbus. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, somewhere around there. If 20 you were looking -- if you're looking at your copy there, it 21 talks about effective from September 1, 2011, to August 31, 22 2012. You say, "Well, gee, that's way on down the road. Why 23 are we doing that now?" She tells me it's because of the 24 biennium system that the State's on that throws it that far 25 out. But they're asking us to put it into place now, because 10-26-09 144 1 it gives them more opportunity to go out and get additional 2 funding that they're looking for and so forth. She was very 3 quick to point out that that is a nonexclusive agreement. 4 We're not obligated to use them in any manner, but certainly, 5 we can if we want to, and if we do want to use them, we got 6 to have it on these terms. So, that's what it is, gentlemen. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't provide for any 8 county funds -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Nope. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- in advance? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Nope. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a one-year? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, begins September 1. 18 Apparently, we got one in place up until that time. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Were you going to ask that 20 question? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, because of the biennium 22 issue in Austin, we're getting a little bit ahead. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't hurt anything. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that it does. And, 10-26-09 145 1 plus, the fact that it's non-exclusive, it doesn't tie us 2 down to anything. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And doesn't have to be funded 4 by us. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: According to Bill Williams' 7 question. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It may well be for individual 9 participants in that program that may be mandated by the 10 Court, yeah, that -- that could be required. Generally, 11 there are fees to participate in those programs. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see the County Attorney's 13 sloughing off a little bit. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Short-timers don't show up 15 very prompt any more. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's gone for a robe 17 fitting. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on 19 the agenda item? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Oh. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the -- all in favor 22 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 10-26-09 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Let's go to Item 2 17; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on policy to 3 coordinate all community service programs to provide 4 liability/loss protection for Kerr County. This item I put 5 on the agenda as a result of having it brought to my 6 attention that we had a community service worker that was 7 working under a community service obligation for one of the 8 J.P.'s, and had gotten slightly injured, or maybe slightly 9 more than slightly injured. And the first question that came 10 to my mind is, what's our liability exposure here? In 11 looking a little further into that, it seems that those that 12 go through the Adult Probation Department are covered by an 13 insurance coverage that they have in place over there. 14 Juveniles that go through the Juvenile Probation Department 15 are covered under -- under the state rules, T.J.P.C. or 16 some -- some coverage aspect there. My concern is, if we've 17 got some other programs running out here that we don't have 18 some sort of coverage on, we might have some exposure, and I 19 was concerned about the possibility that we may be having our 20 rear flank hanging out. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what's the answer? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess at this point, we're 23 going to drop it in the hands of the lawyers and let them 24 tell us what we need to do. That -- that's my initial 25 thinking. 10-26-09 147 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could it be -- well, no, 2 that's -- I agree with you. But could an option be that when 3 they're assigned community service, that they sign some kind 4 of release? Is that -- it's not worth the paper it's written 5 on? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you know, we can get them to 7 sign a waiver or release, but there again, if -- those don't 8 always protect you. You know, they're in a -- they're in a 9 duress situation where they got to get their community 10 service work done and we've effectively got a gun to their 11 head. So, another possibility may be to require all this to 12 be done through the Community Supervision and Corrections 13 Department, where there is coverage. Or, alternatively, for 14 young people -- this could easily apply also to those that 15 were under 17, which would mean that we're dealing with 16 juveniles, but we need to find some way to make sure that 17 we've done whatever we can to protect ourselves. 'Cause, I 18 mean, you could have them out -- out on the side of the road 19 picking up trash, and somebody runs over them, and I wouldn't 20 want to have to respond to that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, we're going to let the 23 County Attorney research this and see how to -- come up with 24 a plan? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the first step on it, 10-26-09 148 1 in order to formulate a policy. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You named those -- you named 4 the adult people and you named the juvenile, and seems like 5 there was three there. But do you know of one of them that 6 is more legally airtight than others? Or -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Frankly, no. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's something that the -- 11 that she would -- 12 MS. BAILEY: I'll look into it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- look at? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: She's on the case. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I heard it. I heard it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: She's on the case. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I feel more comfortable 18 about this whole thing now. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on this one, 20 gentlemen? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move on to Item 18, 23 which is to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 24 regarding policies and procedures, software and payment plan 25 configuration, and coordination for court compliance and fee 10-26-09 149 1 officers. This was put on at the request of the County and 2 District Clerks, and I will, I guess, turn it over to 3 Ms. Uecker. She's at the podium. 4 MS. UECKER: The County Clerk and I put this on the 5 agenda because some issues have come up again that I thought 6 were resolved several months ago. And I think there's some 7 software pending that's being purchased, or thinking about 8 being purchased, that we have some questions about, and I 9 don't even know if the software has been approved by I.T. 10 or -- or what. And there's a couple of things that, you 11 know, I'd like to know, and number one is, will it integrate 12 with Odyssey? Will the clerks, if we have to, be able to 13 still establish a payment plan? And are there -- or 14 shouldn't there be some policy or procedure in place -- and I 15 know that those are probably in the process. Then, if 16 purchased -- I mean, shouldn't that -- shouldn't the software 17 purchase comply with what the policies and procedures say, 18 rather than the other way around? 19 And I know this all started back a couple of months 20 ago when we discussed -- and we had some complaints about the 21 way excess or overage payments or early payments were applied 22 either to the next payment or to the last payment. And after 23 that discussion, I thought that had all been resolved, 'cause 24 I know at least one of the judges, or two of the judges came 25 down and talked to Judge Tinley about it. And so we went -- 10-26-09 150 1 and looking at the plans, thinking that they had all been 2 changed to comply with what was agreed upon, they had not, so 3 we changed some of them to -- to say "next payment," rather 4 than the last payment. And we noticed last week that some of 5 those have actually been changed back to say to the last 6 payment. And I know that this is not the way the Courts want 7 their judgments to be enforced, 'cause I've talked to them. 8 And -- 'cause there's some folks out there that are trying to 9 do the right thing, and I think by, you know, not allowing 10 them to do this is only going to set them up for failure. 11 And I know that Jannett had some other questions 12 that have not been answered, but I'll let her bring those up. 13 And we just need to know some of the answers to these 14 questions, because we got some decisions to make about the 15 collections program and about the fines and costs, and that 16 I, as a fee officer, am responsible for all the felony fines 17 and costs. And, you know, I guess the bottom line is, I 18 don't understand why we can't just all work together, because 19 we're all in this together. We need to collect together and 20 work to make sure that, you know, Kerr County gets what's 21 owed us. And I don't -- I know there was some discussion 22 that Odyssey wouldn't -- wouldn't do what they said it was 23 supposed to do; that you can't apply the overage payment to 24 the next payment, but you can. I promise you, you can, 25 'cause we've done it. And, you know, the only -- only thing 10-26-09 151 1 I know is that if someone comes in to the office because a 2 Court has ordered them to come in to set up a payment plan, 3 and they're from out of town or whatever -- and this is only 4 in that case -- and there's no one in the collections office, 5 I will establish a collections program, and it will be in 6 Odyssey. So -- you know, and I don't know if this new 7 program is -- I don't even know if a contract's been signed 8 on it. But I don't -- I don't think it's going to allow us 9 to be able to go into those payment plans, should we have to, 10 or establish one if we have to. And -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, you -- one of your 12 statutory duties is to receipt for those fees? 13 MS. UECKER: It is. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: On felony cases that are filed -- 15 MS. UECKER: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in your court? 17 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, the filing system that we have 19 in place, the civil court files or County Court at Law, with 20 the exception of probate and -- 21 MS. UECKER: Juvenile. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- mental health and juvenile, are 23 maintained in your office also? 24 MS. UECKER: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: By virtue of that, are you also 10-26-09 152 1 responsible for fees or -- or whatever that may be due in 2 connection with those cases because the files are maintained 3 in your office? 4 MS. UECKER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. UECKER: Because those fees were assessed out 7 of my office. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MS. UECKER: And I'm the one -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you have the obligation to 11 collect those funds? 12 MS. UECKER: Collect them and turn them in to the 13 treasury and make the reports to the Comptroller, and we're 14 just responsible. As you know, the Comptroller's even 15 audited us one time. And, you know, if we're not turning the 16 proper amount of costs in, then the County has to come up 17 with those costs that we either didn't collect or turned in 18 late or whatever. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- you mentioned that Odyssey -- 20 what you were doing is in Odyssey? 21 MS. UECKER: Right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What is the capability of Odyssey 23 with respect to the collection of fines, fees, restitution, 24 whatever it may be? 25 MS. UECKER: Well, I understand -- and I don't know 10-26-09 153 1 if it's there or not, and John would be able to talk to that 2 probably more than I could. I know that there is an add-on 3 to be placed on there soon where the defendant would be able 4 to go in and there would be a connection so that he could 5 just pay it right there on Odyssey. Is that what it is? 6 Like an online -- 7 MR. TROLINGER: Right, online. It basically 8 connects the -- the payment plan to the court case, so 9 someone looking up their court case online via the internet 10 could automatically make a payment. 11 MS. UECKER: There would be a link. And -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my first question is, 13 Odyssey, obviously, from what -- what I'm hearing from you, 14 Odyssey has a -- I'm going to call it a collections program, 15 for lack of a better term. That's -- that's integral to that 16 whole software system? Is that what I'm hearing? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it allows us to do all the 18 functions that -- a lot of the functions that we need to do, 19 but there are additional functions that the compliance office 20 would like to have, and they would like to use another 21 software program in order to get those things. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Identify those, please. 23 MR. TROLINGER: And some of theme are reporting 24 functions. But I think the primary things that they would 25 like to do is, they would like to take the payment plans from 10-26-09 154 1 Odyssey and put them in this separate program. When I found 2 out -- I'd initially approved of the project. I thought we'd 3 gone through testing and some other things. And when I found 4 out that the clerks had not been involved and had major 5 objections to taking the payment plans out of Odyssey, I said 6 no, it's not approved; we cannot do this. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's why it ended up here? 8 MR. TROLINGER: That's why we're here today, is 9 basically, we wanted to take the payment plans and put them 10 in another software program where the clerks would not have 11 access, other than to view only. I think that's the bottom 12 line. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, Odyssey has in their software 14 the ability to create these plans and allow them to be 15 manipulated, credits issued, adjustments made, frequency of 16 payments adjusted, front end, back end, whatever? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: All of that can be done on Odyssey? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 20 MS. UECKER: Yes. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Now, Ms. Lyle might be able to 22 speak to some additional features that the other program 23 provides. There's some things -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: First let me ask you, -- 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 10-26-09 155 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- other than what -- other than 2 what is being done in the current programs, what 3 additional -- in the Odyssey programs, what additional has 4 been requested for you to set up, as the I.T. Manager, in -- 5 in collections programs that can't be done in the Odyssey 6 program? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Nothing. Nothing that Collections, 8 that I know of, has been requesting. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Looking down the road, are 12 there some major things that -- that are likely to come down 13 the pike somewhere else other than under Odyssey that would 14 be a desirable -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: Not -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe you're not the one to ask. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Not that I would know of, but I'm 18 not the one that has to, you know, send out these cards and 19 letters and make the phone calls. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. TROLINGER: I believe that's part of the -- you 22 know, part of the desire to have that other software, is to 23 do some things like that, to automate some things like that. 24 But as far as Odyssey goes, we received a huge update that 25 basically covered a year and a half worth of development work 10-26-09 156 1 that gave us a lot of new tools, and we have not explored all 2 those yet, and those need to be looked into also to make 3 sure. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, there may be some additional 5 things available under Odyssey -- 6 MR. TROLINGER: That's right. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that aren't in use now that are 8 sitting there waiting on us? 9 MR. TROLINGER: That's right. And, for instance, 10 at the Sheriff's Office, we're going through these -- these 11 new features and new things that we received in this update, 12 and just to figure out what we've got that's new and that's 13 available for us, and whether or not we should use it or not, 14 I figure we're going to have to review for 15 or 20 hours, 15 just to look at all the new things that are available before 16 we understand, you know, what we can do -- you know, what we 17 received. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: When did this new update come down 19 the pike? Just -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: September. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. A month ago, yeah. 22 MS. UECKER: The way it is -- the way it's 23 established right now, you actually have to go into the 24 payment plan that's set up in Odyssey to actually do the 25 receipt, apply the payment. And once there's a payment plan 10-26-09 157 1 in there, you can't bypass it; you have to go through it. I 2 mean, you can't go around it; you have to go into the payment 3 plan in that case to post the payment and write the receipt. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Then if there's a payment plan set 5 up in Odyssey, you can't write a receipt otherwise, except 6 through the plan? 7 MS. UECKER: That's right. 8 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 9 MS. UECKER: I think -- 10 MS. PIEPER: And there is a -- there is a -- 11 there's a fee, a $2 admin fee that I'm not sure will work if 12 we don't have that payment plan into Odyssey. Because that 13 kind of triggers Odyssey, when we're making the payment, to 14 pop up and say, hey, the $2 admin fee, do you want to assess 15 it? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this clearly disclosed to 17 whoever's making the payment that this admin fee is -- 18 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever it is, is charged? 20 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But that's -- that has been 22 built into Odyssey? 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes, it has. 24 MR. TROLINGER: And that's -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: What does that amount do over the 10-26-09 158 1 course of -- 2 MS. PIEPER: For the year of 2009, it's estimating 3 it's going to be $9,540, just taken off of that $2 admin fee. 4 MS. UECKER: And there's another -- what is it, 5 6,500? 6 AUDIENCE: 6,500. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Out of your office? So, we're 8 looking at $15,000, $16,000. 9 MS. PIEPER: With that payment plan into Odyssey -- 10 because we have some defendants that are on multiple payment 11 plans, and with the payment plan being put into Odyssey, it 12 tells Odyssey what payments they're paying off first, what 13 cases. And that's per the -- the judges' orders. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You can key in, if they got multiple 15 cases, as to which it applies to first? 16 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 17 MS. UECKER: Sets a priority. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 MR. TROLINGER: And that's the District Clerk's 20 first objection, is that there's no integration with Odyssey, 21 and I think that's where we might fall down on this if we use 22 the new program. We've got to resolve issues like that 23 before we look at using another program to handle payment 24 plans. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the status of this 10-26-09 159 1 mysterious new program? 2 MR. TROLINGER: It's in limbo. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have it? Do we want 4 it? Is it here? Is it hooked up? Have we paid for it? 5 MR. TROLINGER: It is not here. We have not paid 6 for it. There's no contract, but we do have a working -- 7 what I think is a working demonstration system. And we were 8 talking about setting up a working test system to -- to 9 explore all these problems, potential pitfalls. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have instructed John to 11 run this test, to get the thing going and let it interface 12 with the other program, and to test all of these things, all 13 these concerns that they have. If it does not work, send it 14 back. It's that simple. But I -- I'd like to see what -- 15 I'd like to see -- are you through with your questioning? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These questions be directed 18 to the department head. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lyle? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And let her -- let her 21 handle it. I think she's got some answers. So -- so, Linda 22 why don't ask you her a specific question, and let her answer 23 it. 24 MS. UECKER: Well, I think you had sent her an 25 e-mail -- 10-26-09 160 1 MS. PIEPER: I sent her an e-mail with some 2 questions on it the other day that we talked about Friday. 3 MS. UECKER: My main one is, is will we be able to 4 have access to the payment plans if you're not there? Will 5 we be able to set one up? And only if necessary. 6 MS. LYLE: My feeling on another office setting up 7 payment plans in my absence is, number one, it's not to be 8 convenient for these defendants. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Not what? 10 MS. LYLE: Convenient for the defendants. If I am 11 not here, they should come back. Now, if -- I have no 12 complete objection to them doing a payment plan. If they 13 were to set up payment plans the same way, uniformly like our 14 office would set them up, that would be perfectly acceptable. 15 But I can tell you from Office of Court Administration, their 16 policies, their guidelines that they mandate down towards us, 17 or recommend to us, is convenience is not an option for the 18 defendant. They are the ones that are in trouble. They are 19 the ones that need to come back. But if they were to set 20 them up the exact same way we set up payment plans, yes, I 21 would be able to say yes, you could set up payment plans in 22 our absence. The only comment I have about that is that 23 payment plans have been set up, and modifications have been 24 made while our office has been open, and I know that to be a 25 fact. So, if it would be in our absence, yes. Also, I don't 10-26-09 161 1 know if anyone is aware, but we also do payment plans over 2 the phone with people that live out of town that cannot come 3 to Kerrville, that live maybe in Houston or Dallas and cannot 4 come. We do those on the phone all the time, set them up 5 over the phone. We mail them to a defendant; they sign them, 6 they return them back to us. It's the same way. So, that 7 could be an option as well. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you aware that these two 9 ladies right here have a statutory authority to collect 10 money? 11 MS. LYLE: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And to set up payment plans? 13 Whether they do it the way you want to do it or not? You are 14 a department head. They are elected officials with the 15 statutory responsibility. You're not trying to overrule 16 them, are you? 17 MS. LYLE: No. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, she's trying to work 19 with them. 20 MS. LYLE: I am trying to work with them. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why are we having this 22 conversation -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great question. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- if you're trying to work 25 together? 10-26-09 162 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great question. 2 MS. UECKER: Well, and that's my question, too. 3 Because several months ago, I felt -- thought we had this 4 resolved, and -- and now -- Terry had even come up, and we 5 visited with her, and I know that she had some objection to 6 applying an overage or early payment to the next payment 7 rather than to the last payment, and I think they're still 8 setting them up to apply those to the last payment. And 9 Judge Williams was very adamant about it, Judge Prohl. I 10 know Judge Brown said, "No, that's not how we want it done." 11 And I think they're still being set up that way. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lyle, I recall during the budget 13 workshops the issue of -- of the software program came up. I 14 don't recall the dollar figure that was attached to it. Help 15 me with that. 16 MS. LYLE: For the cost of the program? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 18 MS. LYLE: It is $6,250, I believe. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. LYLE: Per year. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's an annual cost? 22 MS. LYLE: That's an annual cost. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the base question, as I 24 see it -- and maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture here -- 25 is initially, we need to see if this proposed program does 10-26-09 163 1 anything that's spectacular over and above what Odyssey's 2 capable of now doing, or could be modified to do. It may be 3 that if there's any particular needs that you have over and 4 above what Odyssey is capable of doing, that we could get 5 those folks to make some adjustments -- they do it all the 6 time, I think -- that justifies that expense, or whether we 7 stay within the Odyssey system. 8 MS. LYLE: What I would like to do is run this new 9 software program as well as Odyssey, both in test mode, as if 10 we were running a live production, so that everyone involved 11 in the collections process makes sure that this program meets 12 their needs. And once that happens, then I will propose we 13 purchase the product. If it does not meet the needs of 14 everybody, then we just stick with Odyssey. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be running the 16 Odyssey in tandem with the new program, as we know Odyssey 17 today? 18 MS. LYLE: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or as we know Odyssey will 20 be, based on what Mr. Trolinger said? 21 MS. LYLE: As we know that Odyssey is today. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why wouldn't we want to 23 wait to see whether or not all the enhancements that 24 Mr. Trolinger spoke of take care of some of the issues that 25 may be relevant in your mind? 10-26-09 164 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 MR. TROLINGER: Terry, what are some of the things 3 this I-Plow program does for you? 4 MS. LYLE: Okay. The I-Plow program offers many 5 more reports than Odyssey does, number one. It will give you 6 detail as to which court is being successful, which court is 7 the least successful. It will give you a more accurate -- 8 the Court a more accurate figure of the collections versus 9 what we are getting out of Odyssey. I believe it'll give -- 10 I don't know specifically, but I know that the clerks will 11 receive reports as well, as they need them. 12 MS. PIEPER: We'll have access to go in and run 13 reports? 14 MS. LYLE: Yes, you will have access to go run 15 reports as you want to and as you need to. Odyssey, right 16 now, whether it's being set up towards last payment or next 17 payment, we are still having problems with it showing 18 overages -- not overages, past-due amounts, and they are not 19 past-due. I've tried it both ways. Both of them come back 20 and say they are past-due, and they're not. And it's a lot 21 of time we spend at our desk at the computer searching and 22 researching to see if they're, in fact, past-due or not. If 23 they show a past-due, we send out a delinquency notice. We 24 get a phone call, "We're not past-due," so we have to 25 research it; come to find out they're not past-due. So, we 10-26-09 165 1 spend a lot of time doing that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I agree that you need 3 something that's reliable; when it says it's past-due, it is, 4 in fact, past-due. 5 MS. LYLE: And I have talked extensively to the new 6 software company. They have assured me that that is not 7 going to happen in the new program. The deal between the 8 past-due or the overages of payments being applied to next 9 payment versus last payment, Jannett and I talked about that 10 in somewhat -- 11 MS. PIEPER: Friday. 12 MS. LYLE: Friday. We talked a while, and I think 13 that our goal is the exact same thing. We are both wanting 14 the exact same thing. We're both intending to do the exact 15 same thing; we're just looking at it at different angles. 16 Like the same scenario; is it this Tuesday or next Tuesday? 17 Kind of the same scenario. Explain to me what you mean by 18 overages being paid towards the next payment. 19 MS. UECKER: Okay. When all this started, the 20 complaints we were getting -- we were getting calls saying 21 that -- well, take this one lady, for example, made her 22 payment on January the 20-something for a payment that was 23 due February the 1st. So, on February the 1st, that payment 24 was applied to the end of the note, and in February she was 25 still delinquent. Another case where someone came in and 10-26-09 166 1 paid -- had a payment plan, but got a refund check, and so 2 they paid several months worth of payments in January. It 3 gave January credit, yet put the rest of it on the end, and 4 they were still delinquent in February, March, April, and 5 May. So, those are the kind of things -- and I know you and 6 I talked about it, and that was up there. And you said, "No, 7 that's not how I want to do it," and I said, "Well, that's 8 the way the judges want to do it." So -- 9 MS. LYLE: Then let me clarify how I would like to 10 have it, then. 11 MS. UECKER: Wait. Hold on. 12 MS. LYLE: Okay. 13 MS. UECKER: And the fact that -- the reason that 14 those -- those showed delinquent when they thought they 15 weren't is because it was the way the original payment plan 16 was established, to apply it to the last payment. Which we 17 didn't do those; they did. 18 MS. LYLE: We did. When was that that Odyssey came 19 and spent a whole day with us? Was that in June of this 20 year? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Seems about right. 22 MS. LYLE: Around June this year, we addressed that 23 issue with Odyssey, and we had a representative sit with us 24 all day on Friday, I believe it was -- was it Friday? 25 Doesn't matter. Sat with us all day. We tried to make this 10-26-09 167 1 work. They could not make it work. He went back and had 2 someone call back -- Brian Murray, I believe is who it was, 3 called back. They could not get it to work. They did an 4 enhancement while they were sitting in my office to try to 5 make it work. It didn't work. We're still faced with -- 6 that's when I began to explore another software program. 7 MS. UECKER: And I talked to Brian Murray two weeks 8 later. He said, "I don't know what the heck they're talking 9 about. This is how it works. Let me show you. Let's try 10 it. Let's test it." 11 MS. LYLE: Well, in my opinion, when I'm setting up 12 a payment plan and someone has a payment for $100 a month, 13 for easy figuring, if they walk in with $200, I am not going 14 to tell them, "You only owe me $100; take the other $100 15 back," okay? The extra 100 will come off their last payment. 16 Next month, I still want to see them. They can pay 200 17 today; the next month I still want to see them. If it's 18 applied towards their next payment, and they pay six months 19 in advance, that computer program's going to say they don't 20 have a payment due for six months. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds reasonable to me. 22 MS. LYLE: So the next month -- 23 MS. UECKER: First of all, she wouldn't take that 24 money, nor would she then tell them, "Here, you take the 25 other 100 back." They're supposed to pay that to -- in the 10-26-09 168 1 clerk's office, not -- 2 MS. LYLE: Well, figuratively speaking. 3 Figuratively, I wouldn't deny them and just say, "Your 4 payment's only $100; don't pay the other 100." I wouldn't 5 say that. But the computer program would show that they did 6 not have a payment due for six months. So, next month, when 7 their payment should be due and they don't come make it, it 8 will not show them delinquent. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If you've got a -- a judge who has 10 assessed a fine, and has as that Court's policy that 11 prepayments apply on the next-due installments, whatever they 12 may be, for as far as they'll go -- 13 MS. LYLE: What I'm going by is O.C.S. 14 recommendations. O.C.S. recommendation to me is you have 15 them come in every single month to see you, to make a 16 payment. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you've got a judge who 18 imposed that obligation, though, and as part of that judge's 19 policy -- court policy, that any sums paid are to be applied 20 on the next payment installments due or to become due, you 21 feel like you -- you can set it up so that if they pay you 22 effectively three months worth of installments, you can 23 credit the -- the current one and put two on the -- on the 24 far end? 25 MS. LYLE: That's how we currently have them set 10-26-09 169 1 up. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the judges' orders are 3 like that? 4 MS. LYLE: No, they are not. They are -- the 5 orders specifically state "by order set up through the 6 Compliance Department." 7 MS. UECKER: The thing is, they have specifically 8 stated that they -- that it's their intent, and they have 9 always thought that -- that the overage payments or early 10 payments are applied as they come. You know, and her and I 11 talked about this before, and she wants everybody coming in 12 there every month. Well, she's not the probation officer. 13 Probation officers have to have folks come in every month. 14 All -- all Collections Department -- or Compliance 15 Department's duty is is to make sure that these folks pay 16 Kerr County. We don't care when it's paid, how it's paid, as 17 long as it's paid within -- within a set date. 18 MS. LYLE: Again, I'm going by O.C.S. 19 recommendations. Anytime you let a defendant skip for more 20 than two months, they're going to be gone. Not definitely, 21 but they could be gone. They're harder to find. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Most credit instruments 23 that I'm familiar with indicate that if you make an extra 24 payment, it goes to the tail end of your obligation, and you 25 continue to do what you're supposed to do month by month by 10-26-09 170 1 month by month. If you've been a good boy or girl, you get 2 off a month early. 3 MS. LYLE: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's what the State 5 recommends that they do here. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's -- if it's the Judges' 7 intention that -- that the payments be handled in a manner 8 that, if there's excess amounts paid, they be applied to the 9 then-due or next-to-become-due payments, I think it can be 10 solved very simply by them writing a letter to the Compliance 11 Department that, at least for judgments coming out of that 12 particular judge's court, this is the way it ought to be set 13 up, so that credit is done in that manner. That would seem 14 to solve the problem. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, and that's exactly 16 right. And if -- and if they receive that, we need to put 17 that in our -- in our policy book as well, while we're -- 18 we're in that process right now. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can get that entered real 21 easy. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the issue. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- they have inherent authority to 25 designate that -- 10-26-09 171 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course they can. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- generally, unless they -- in a 3 specific order, they say otherwise, maybe. But as a general 4 rule, I think they have the ability to do that, just by 5 putting it in a written communication directly to the 6 Compliance Department, it would seem like. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So, I still think we have the issue 9 about whether or not we want to -- there was nine and 10 six-plus, so that's 15,000. Then we got 6,000 a year. So, 11 whether or not a new program is worth $21,000 a year to us. 12 But, here again, we just need to take a look at that, I 13 guess. And it would seem that a full test mode, side by 14 side, plugging in all the options that might be reasonable 15 that we're doing now. Sheriff? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On that one point about 17 getting into another software -- and I'm not trying to take 18 either side, but just the nightmare we go through with this 19 county -- and Trolinger, I think, can attest to this -- every 20 time we take any department or any part of this county off of 21 Odyssey, which is supposed to be a fully integrated system 22 throughout every department, and put it on something else, it 23 messes up everything else that we're all doing, okay? If I 24 take the jail off, Linda and them are going to have serious 25 problems with court stuff, everybody else, if I went to a 10-26-09 172 1 separate software system. A lot of the fines and a lot of 2 that stuff are showing, and whether they're on probation are 3 showing in Odyssey, and the amounts owed, and a lot of times 4 we'll have people come to jail and they'll wonder. We can 5 pull it up. If they're going to start taking this off, we're 6 going to ruin our -- our million-dollar computer system, 7 because we're fragmented off of it way too much. And we're 8 finally getting to the point where Odyssey, with Brian 9 Murray, or -- I guess Murray, where we did raise a lot of 10 Cain with them and made a lot of threats with them, and 11 they're going through weekly conference calls with my office, 12 getting problems taken care of. I think they're trying to do 13 it with a lot of the other departments. I have to admit, 14 they're working hard. I just think if -- if any of our 15 issues can be taken care of, the very last straw, unless it's 16 just totally legally binding, ought to be getting away from 17 Odyssey at this point. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Sheriff, I think if we're 19 going to install some third-party software, there's going to 20 have to be a very, very compelling reason, if we can do the 21 basic job with Odyssey. But that's what the test mode will 22 be for. 23 MS. LYLE: I can tell you that nothing is changing 24 in Odyssey. It's still going to be fully used through our 25 office. The only thing changing is the payment plan, the 10-26-09 173 1 location, and the efforts for collection are moving to a new 2 program. Everything else will remain in Odyssey. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do you mean by "efforts"? 4 MS. LYLE: Sending out late notices, monitoring 5 payments, things of that nature will be done through the new 6 software program. Payments will still be taken through 7 Odyssey. Notes are still updated in Odyssey, as we're doing 8 right now. Everything will be scanned in Odyssey, as we're 9 doing right now. Address updates are done in Odyssey. The 10 only thing being moved is the payment plan itself. 11 MS. UECKER: Okay. But are -- are we going to have 12 to be doing double work? Because you're going to have to put 13 the payment plan in Odyssey and in -- 14 MS. LYLE: Not -- I'm not putting the payment plan 15 in Odyssey; it's being moved to the new program. If it 16 works. If the new program works. So, it's not duplication. 17 Actually, it's going to be simplifying our work, because we 18 have a spreadsheet right now, which we can get rid of that 19 spreadsheet. The spreadsheet takes all day for us to 20 monitor. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be interested to see if 22 Odyssey can be adjusted or worked to solve your needs, 23 because I agree with the Sheriff, and we'd be very reluctant 24 to try to just add new software. Odyssey's been a nightmare 25 and a blessing, and it needs to be -- we need to make sure 10-26-09 174 1 that there's -- that Odyssey can't be made to do what you 2 need it to do. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. And I 4 also think that it would be a good idea for the County Clerk 5 and District Clerk and the Court Compliance to develop their 6 own policies of what they're going to run. Being as we have 7 two elected officials that are in charge of that -- of the 8 collections part, they should have something to do with 9 writing policy and procedures for that office, being that 10 they have to work together. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would add one thing to 12 that. I agree with what you're saying, but I would add one 13 thing to it. And make certain that all the judges who issue 14 these orders are in tune with it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, you two guys are 16 making statements like this is not happening. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, you are. What is 19 going on is that she is -- she is writing new policies; 20 they're almost ready, and they will go to every person -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that had questions about 23 it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These two ladies -- these 10-26-09 175 1 two elected officials, both District Judges, County Attorney, 2 and -- let's see, there was -- oh, Judge Brown. They'll go 3 -- it will go to every one of those people for their review, 4 and to change or whatever it is they want to do. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's super. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. You know, 7 nobody -- nobody's trying to hide anything, or -- or run 8 anything under the table. You know, if this -- if this damn 9 thing doesn't work, we're going to send it back to Dallas or 10 wherever it -- I mean, it's that simple. It's not -- this is 11 not a magic deal at all. 12 MR. TROLINGER: What it's come down to, Judge, is 13 I'm sitting in the middle here. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, you are. That's your 15 job. 16 MR. TROLINGER: We've got -- we've got control over 17 the payment plans, is the primary issue that I saw. That's 18 why I put a halt to the project, so that's why we're here 19 today. If we want to go ahead and actually put this on test 20 and see what it can do, what's the decision process at this 21 point? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think if -- before the Court 23 makes a decision to -- to sign a contract for that software, 24 I think we need to know what its capabilities are. And, as I 25 mentioned to the Sheriff, unless there's a compelling reason, 10-26-09 176 1 if Odyssey will do virtually all the same things -- what I 2 just heard from Ms. Lyle a little bit ago, I think, is that 3 all of the follow-up activity that her office takes she's 4 looking at doing under the new program. But then, when I 5 heard the payment program is coming under that, it's hard for 6 me to conceive how you don't have a payment program in 7 Odyssey, but all the other stuff and the administration of 8 the payments is going to be done in Odyssey. I mean, I'm not 9 a technological giant by any means, but if you don't have the 10 base payment plans over there in the Odyssey, I don't see how 11 you can do the administrative aspects of doing the collection 12 and the crediting and the receipting and all that stuff that 13 takes place over there, and the monitoring. If you're 14 talking about just the follow-up stuff, the keeping up with 15 your people on a 30-, 60-, 90-day default letter or whatever 16 on a follow-up basis, it seems like the basic function is, in 17 fact, Odyssey, and this is just a post default program to 18 help you get after the -- the ones that are already out of 19 the system, so to speak. I don't know. There's a lot of 20 things I probably don't understand. But I think, John, you 21 are caught in the middle, and you're going to have to do the 22 evaluation and come back and tell us what your evaluation is 23 of these programs. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Absolutely. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Whether or not it -- oh, boy, this 10-26-09 177 1 thing just does things head and shoulders above what Odyssey 2 is capable of doing now, or under this new release, that -- 3 that you're able to find out that the upgrades allowed you to 4 do. 5 MS. UECKER: Well, and I -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: To justify another 20,000-plus. You 7 know, plus integrating new software into our system. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. So that, basically, the 9 decision to sign the contract or not comes down to my 10 evaluation. The biggest challenge I see is that the clerks' 11 offices -- the District Clerk and the County Clerk's office 12 have to be fully involved in this. Normally, when there's a 13 separate -- when this program is being put in use, for 14 instance, in Comal County, I think the collections are -- are 15 being handled within the office that -- within the clerk's 16 office, all in one place. There aren't two separate offices, 17 and that's part of the challenge we're having here. We've 18 got, you know, two separate policies, almost, that we're 19 trying to -- trying to run. And it seems like one software 20 program wants -- you know, we're going to use our policies 21 with this software program and not our policies with this 22 one. So, that's -- that's probably the biggest challenge in 23 this entire decision. 24 MS. UECKER: Another thing, I -- and I heard Terry 25 say something a while ago about I-Plow generating forms and 10-26-09 178 1 stuff that could be mailed out. And I don't know if she went 2 through the -- the training process on Odyssey with the -- 3 you can generate any form -- any form you want to in Odyssey, 4 and generate them en masse if you want to, and so that 5 capability is definitely there. That form just -- 6 MS. LYLE: Is it -- 7 MS. UECKER: -- has to be put in. 8 MS. LYLE: Yeah, 'cause I put forms in all the 9 time. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: My part of this, I'm going to 11 side with the two ladies that have the statutory authority to 12 collect those fees, and that they should be over that office 13 of compliance, and formulate policy. Them. Not the tail 14 wagging the dog, but the dog wagging the tail. The two of 15 them set policy for that office and how that office and 16 collections will work. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think so. That's 18 not going to happen. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's -- it could come 20 to a vote, and it might be or might not be. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's going to come to 22 a vote -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, let's have it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- with the policy handbook. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's vote on it. 10-26-09 179 1 MS. UECKER: That was the other question I had, is 2 back -- back when -- I don't know what the exact date when it 3 was discussed, and y'all decided that there should be some 4 policies and procedures. I understand that you, Buster, were 5 supposed to come up with the policies -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 7 MS. UECKER: -- and procedure. Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's in process, as I understand 9 it. Right? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they're asking a 11 question. Answer it. 12 MS. LYLE: It is ready to be printed for review. 13 MS. UECKER: Okay. 14 MS. LYLE: Once it's been reviewed and everything's 15 been changed, then we can present it to the Court for 16 adoptance. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're going to review a 18 draft policy? 19 MS. LYLE: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to test two 21 pieces of software side-by-side? 22 MS. LYLE: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then we're going to 24 talk again, right? 25 MS. LYLE: Yes. 10-26-09 180 1 MS. UECKER: I would like to see the policies in 2 place first, and then look at software that complies with 3 whatever policies we come up with. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whichever. Whatever works 5 best. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, so as far as -- as far 7 as the payment plans and everybody being able to work those, 8 I have absolutely no problem with that at all. But I think 9 the proper way to do that is have a standard -- standard way 10 of doing it. And I don't care who draws up the standard way. 11 MS. UECKER: Well, I thought there was. I thought 12 that had been established months ago. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She has -- she has a 14 standard way, I think. And if everybody used the same thing, 15 there wouldn't be any problem. So that when you look at -- 16 when you look -- turn on your computer and see the payment 17 plan, it -- this one says the exact same thing as the guy you 18 did a while ago. There's not -- there's not anything 19 changing. I mean, it's just -- it's kind of a courtesy thing 20 of, let's do one at a time, or do it all the same way. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need to have an approved 22 policy in place that incorporates that before we do the test? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I sure think so. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think -- I think the 25 test is -- I don't know. 10-26-09 181 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, yes. That's exactly as the 2 District Clerk said. We need to have the policy before we 3 can test the system. We need to test it against something. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you've got one doing it 5 one way, the other two doing it another way, it's not going 6 to be the same until you get the policy. 7 MR. TROLINGER: That's it. 8 MS. LYLE: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Step one is, let's get that policy 12 nailed down. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's going to all the people 14 that Buster mentioned, then it's coming back to us? Is that 15 what's happening? 16 MS. LYLE: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it will come in here, if 18 you like. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, definitely. 'Cause I 20 want to know that everybody that is part of that is going to 21 support it before I vote on it. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want one? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I want everybody involved in 24 this to be in support of the policy before it comes to us. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know that that 10-26-09 182 1 will happen. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if it doesn't happen, 3 then we got to start over. You got to put -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can't force a policy 6 through that you don't get agreement on by the parties 7 involved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't have everybody 9 agree on it, though. I mean, you do not have to have 10 everybody agree on it, do you? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I sure would like the parties 12 that are involved to agree on it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like that as well, 14 but it's not -- it's not a -- I'm not arguing with you; I 15 just -- I don't see -- you want 100 percent agreement before 16 it comes in here? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't get -- if we 18 don't get an agreement between the County Clerk the District 19 Clerk and Court Compliance on the policy, then we have no 20 policy to vote on. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The judges, I think, have the 22 ability to -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The judges have some 24 authority too. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: By their directive. And -- 10-26-09 183 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what y'all are 2 talking about. Of course that's what we're going to do. 3 We're going to run it by everybody, and it's not going to 4 come here until everybody sees it and signs off on it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are we going to vote on it? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hell, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I just want to make 8 sure we're going to vote on it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's going to be a policy 10 book for -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't get thrown into 12 play without -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for Commissioners Court 14 to adopt, officially adopt. And then, as far as I'm 15 concerned, it's going to be a living document. If something 16 needs to be changed, it's got to come back in here. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that part. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then -- but once 19 the thing's voted on, we don't need to be tinkering with it 20 or changing anything. We need to live by that document, just 21 like any other -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Until it needs changing 23 again. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Live with it until it needs 10-26-09 184 1 changing. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. 3 MS. UECKER: You may get a new judge that has a 4 whole 'nother idea about it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. Or new 6 set of laws. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Got to watch those new judges, don't 8 you? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 MS. UECKER: We should ask him. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You will eventually. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You'll have that opportunity in a 13 week or so. 14 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, not going to test the 16 software until -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We got the policy. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- until we got a policy. 19 That works for me. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, is that it? All right. 21 Let's go to section 4. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one more, I think. 23 MS. PIEPER: Item 19. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1.19? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Section 4, payment of the bills. 10-26-09 185 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we pay the bills. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 4 bills. Question or discussion? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one question. 6 Jeannie, on Page 4, it's something out of Diane's election -- 7 what is that -- what is that H.A.V.A. comp reimbursement, 3 8 foot suitcases? What's that all about? 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Help America Vote Act. 11 MS. BOLIN: Yes. What happens is, we can order 12 things, but the County has to pay for them and then H.A.V.A. 13 reimburses us -- reimburses us. And so that's what that is. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- we're paying, and 15 we get reimbursed? 16 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's a suitcase? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess. You carry 20 something around in it, I guess. 21 MS. BOLIN: I have no idea what foot cases are. 22 Foot suitcases? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Bolin, on that same item -- 24 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And I can understand that someone 10-26-09 186 1 from home, looking on their computer about Kerr County's 2 bills, -- 3 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- are wondering, "Well, you mean 5 Diane Bolin fronted the money to buy those, and now -- she is 6 an elected official; we're having to pay her back." You 7 didn't personally spend your funds. 8 MS. BOLIN: I did not. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We have that same thing when it 10 comes to postage to you people. I think I first raised the 11 issue when -- when, I think, Linda Uecker -- we paid her 12 $5,000 to reimburse for postage. 13 MS. BOLIN: That's because we can't get our postage 14 money first to put into our machines unless we have proof to 15 the Auditor that it's already been paid, so we have no other 16 way but to write them out of our general accounts, pay it, 17 and then give her a copy of the check and a copy of the 18 receipt once it's been put into the machines. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That doesn't make sense. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That sure doesn't. 21 MS. PIEPER: We don't. We just tell them we're 22 almost out of postage. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just like buying anything else. 24 MS. BOLIN: Then how does it get into your machine? 25 MS. PIEPER: We get a check cut. 10-26-09 187 1 MS. BOLIN: Okay. What you had originally told me 2 on the postage was that you had to have proof that we paid 3 for the postage that was in our machine before you could 4 reimburse me. But she doesn't -- 5 MS. HARGIS: She and Linda -- Linda does it -- I 6 think she does it through her machine. You can do it through 7 the machine. 8 MS. BOLIN: That's how we do ours. But you told me 9 that we had to have a check first -- 10 MS. HARGIS: I have to have -- 11 MS. BOLIN: -- to get the money from you. 12 MS. HARGIS: What they do is, they get a -- there's 13 some kind of receipt that I think that you post against 14 y'all, and then they give me that. And Linda pays for hers, 15 I think, sometimes, too, the same way as Diane does. But, 16 you know, I would just as soon write the check. But I 17 know -- it doesn't matter, but they've been doing it that way 18 before I got here, and so -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think your "just as soon as" is 20 what I'd like to see. Because, like I say, if I'm at home 21 and I'm looking at the bills on my computer, as Joe Six-Pack, 22 any time I see an individual's name as a payee, I get 23 concerned. If I see a check for postage written to Pitney 24 Bowes, I'm going to blow by there and not think another thing 25 about it, but if I see $5,000, quote, reimbursement for 10-26-09 188 1 postage for a named individual that's an elected official, -- 2 MS. BOLIN: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- I -- you know, that sends up a -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We frequently see that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Happens all the time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And I think those expenditures need 8 to go directly out of -- out of Kerr County and charged to 9 their budget appropriately, just like any other expenditure. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other questions, gentlemen? 12 Let me pore through here and see what I can find. Sheriff, 13 on the County Jail budget -- and I got clarification from 14 Ms. Mabry on this -- we got the standard monthly contract 15 amount of almost 25,000 on the medical, and then it was an 16 additional amount for those same folks for almost $10,000. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: She tells me that's the total 19 overage for the last fiscal year, that we went over our caps. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. We were notified last 21 week about that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: What, a $300,000 contract? That 23 ain't too bad. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't think it was bad. I 25 didn't like -- and we weren't over until the last -- about 10-26-09 189 1 the last month. We had some issues that put us over. We had 2 one airlifted to San Antonio. We had one had to go through 3 surgery here, but that's what put us over our cap. So, yeah, 4 that's what we were over. And we had budgeted last year 5 15,000, is what we were estimating, so that's why it's still 6 being -- and that's an issue. I may have to start budgeting 7 -- I guess it would -- I don't know. I don't know, a year in 8 advance or something. Because -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: For the contingency? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Normally, I won't get 11 last year's overage, if we go over the cap, until we're 12 already, you know, past October 1 in our budget now, so it 13 would come out of, like, our next year's budget for last 14 year's bill, unless she does the encumbrances. But we had to 15 rush them to get it in that time. If they'd have just done 16 all their figuring, you know, as they would monthly, I 17 probably wouldn't have gotten that overage amount totally 18 figured up until in November. I don't know how y'all want me 19 to do that for years to come on budget, but that's what that 20 10,000 is. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Work with the Auditor on that, 22 because it may require some encumbrance, because it's 23 properly charged to last budget year. But I know they're 24 trying to -- they try and get everything closed out as 25 quickly as they can and not carry those any further than they 10-26-09 190 1 absolutely have to. 2 MS. HARGIS: We carried the one balance. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We got the bill for them, but 4 normally -- we got it probably a month, two months quicker 5 than we would have normally. So, that's an encumbrance that 6 could last several months. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Any other questions, 8 gentlemen? We have a motion and a second? 9 THE CLERK: Yes. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 11 by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Looks like 16 we got some budget amendments relating to restructuring and a 17 new employee in the Maintenance Department. Is that a 18 correct assessment? 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes. We -- we moved things around a 20 little bit. Tim's department was the only one that wasn't 21 showing the supervisor as -- you know, on his line item, and 22 we wanted to be able to show that individually. We had it 23 set up that way, and somehow or another it got corrupted last 24 year. It's just a line item; we put it in. We're just 25 actually moving from it one line item to the other. That's 10-26-09 191 1 really all we're doing. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Budget was not increased? 3 MS. HARGIS: No, no, no. These are just -- really 4 just line item changes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need approval to do that? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, budget amendment request 7 Numbers 1 through 3. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we do that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for 11 approval of the budget amendment requests Numbers 1 through 3 12 as shown on the summary. Question or discussion? All in 13 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Do we have any 18 late bills? 19 MS. HARGIS: No late bills. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 21 reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; Constable, 22 Precinct 4; Kerr County Treasurer for September 2009; 23 Constable, Precinct 3; and Kerr County payroll for 24 September 2009. Do I hear a motion that those reports be 25 approved as presented? 10-26-09 192 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval of the named reports. Question or discussion on the 5 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Reports 11 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison or other 12 capacities? Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. Someone has stolen my 14 cursor. (Laughter.) But that's the only problem I have 15 right now. Where the hell do these things go? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A couple. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a hard act to follow. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is a tough act to 20 follow. Judge, a couple items. First of all -- the Auditor 21 may be interested in this as well -- we received a notice 22 from the Executive Director at AACOG that, effective 23 September 1, 2009, the State Comptroller's office adopted the 24 federal rates as published in the G.S.A. website for 25 out-of-state and in-state travel. Coupled with that -- 10-26-09 193 1 coupled with that is the fact that, effective January 1, 2 2010, the mileage guide upon which we've been relying by the 3 Comptroller is gone. She's not doing that any more. 4 MS. HARGIS: We know that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, everybody ought to know 6 about how you do that. You go to www.gsa.gov to find out how 7 much you're going to get reimbursed. Then you're going to 8 another website -- who is this? -- and get the exact mileage. 9 I got it here, Rand McNally. Go to Rand McNally to get the 10 mileage. So, you got to go to two websites now, first to get 11 the rate, secondly to get the mileage. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the rate? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rate's 55, same as it's 14 been. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 55 cents per mile. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will that be changing 18 anytime soon? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably not. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the state rate? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. The State's adopted 22 that, so that's the state rate. The other thing, Judge, is 23 that the weatherization program that AACOG is administering 24 has received notice of $14,396,000 worth of funding for the 25 weatherization assistance program over the next two years. 10-26-09 194 1 They've already taken from that and then awarded 7.2 million 2 for that program for this current year, for '10 -- '09 and 3 '10 on. And the purpose of that, of course, is to help 4 people who cannot help themselves with respect to 5 rehabilitation of their homes, particularly on weatherization 6 type things. The -- the housing -- or the survey that 7 Grantworks did for us again revealed some real problems that 8 we have in Kerr County in my precinct, and I'm sure you got 9 them in your precincts as well. And in my precinct, it 10 showed something like 642 housing units, categorized the 11 condition of them as either standard, deteriorated, or 12 dilapidated. Of the 642, 32 percent were dilapidated, 13 41 percent were deteriorated, and only 26 percent are in a 14 standard condition. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I 15 suspect that you've got similar circumstances in your 16 precincts as well. The whole point of which is, I can bring 17 Ms. Jackson down for a public meeting, which we can advertise 18 and let her talk to all of these people from wherever in the 19 county with respect to how they can access these funds and 20 get on the list to get some rehabilitation done in their 21 housing units. And so I'm asking you to tell me if you want 22 to participate, and how quickly we can cobble it together and 23 get the information out so that people understand that. 24 We'll set a location for -- centralized location for this to 25 happen. So, there's a lot of them out there. If I got that 10-26-09 195 1 many in my precinct, you've got to have a bunch of them in 2 yours. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do you have? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 642 units that are in need 5 of problem -- in need of help. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My god. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it, Judge. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm getting ready to go to a 9 meeting with Councilman Motheral to look at subdivisions 10 again. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: God bless you. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No -- no progress has been made 13 since the last meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hope you have a fun 15 afternoon. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all I have. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wish I could go. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How long are you going to do 19 this? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can Buster and I go? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Trying to wear me down. But -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a marathon deal, 24 isn't it? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't know you very 10-26-09 196 1 well, do they? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: They don't know about this 3 hard-headed dutchman, do they? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, they don't. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're learning. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler, do you have 7 anything for us? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I don't have anything. 9 That I want to share, anyway. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got one other -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any elected officials? 13 MR. EMERSON: Go ahead, you first. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One real quick one. I know we 15 all noted that after lunch, our short-timer County Attorney 16 was late getting back, and Commissioner Williams made the 17 comment that he was probably out getting fitted for a robe. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did say that, yes. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He did bring in the dress 20 sizes and some prices with him when he came back in. 21 (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guessed that one. 23 MR. EMERSON: You know, I was going to be nice. I 24 would like to point out -- 25 JUDGE SHERRILL: May I speak? I offered him a -- I 10-26-09 197 1 offered him a robe, and at 12:30 Friday, he turned it down. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge Sherrill, as I recall, the 3 first time I was sworn in, you said, "I'm not going to let 4 you get sworn in without you wearing a robe. Come here," and 5 you put one on me. 6 JUDGE SHERRILL: Well, Emerson didn't want to take 7 what went with the robe. That's the case we're trying up 8 there. (Laughter.) 9 MR. EMERSON: I think it went something like, at 10 12:30, the jury reconvenes. At 1:30, here's the robe. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: He wanted to give you a little 12 something else to go along with it. 13 MR. EMERSON: He did. But in Rusty's honor, I 14 would like to point out that, you know, the commissary 15 shrinkage last year was $500; it's only $50 this year. And I 16 find it interesting, but not necessarily definitive, that it 17 just so happens his department went on a diet this year. 18 (Laughter.) 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, that's good. Oh, that's 20 good. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm glad this is the last 22 Commissioners Court meeting we have to do with Rex. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cut back on the candy bars. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Judge Emerson? 25 MR. EMERSON: I think that's enough zingers for one 10-26-09 198 1 meeting. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials want to 3 take a shot? Department heads? You didn't raise your hand. 4 MS. HYDE: Yeah, I got something. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I figured you did. 6 MS. HYDE: November 4th, the flu shots. Just 7 reminding everyone, the flu shots, 8:30 a.m. to 11:00. It is 8 in the training room over at the S.O. office. There's still 9 two Commissioners that haven't declined or said they want 10 their shots; I kind of need to see them. Open enrollment. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to speak their names out 12 loud so that they can -- 13 MS. HYDE: Absolutely not, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- know they're tardy? 15 MS. HYDE: Absolutely not. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Was it training or the judge's 17 courtroom? 18 MS. HYDE: Training room. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I'm one of them, I'm out of 21 town that day. 22 MS. HYDE: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Just identified yourself. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I said you should have an 25 alternate date set up. 10-26-09 199 1 MS. HYDE: Open enrollment for our insurance will 2 be on the 17th, 18th, and 19th of November. Earliest we've 3 ever done it, I do believe. And it -- we will have the dates 4 and the times out for sign-up like we have in the past. The 5 retirees meeting and make-up meeting for all other employees 6 will be on Tuesday, December 1st. So, instead of it being 7 two hours, they can plan on four hours or longer. So, just 8 F.Y.I. That's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 17, 18, 19 of November? 11 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, and I'll send it out and Jody 12 will have it like last year so everybody can sign up. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other quickie, Judge. 14 I asked Commissioner Oehler to join me tomorrow; we have a 15 meeting with the Watermaster at Road and Bridge to talk about 16 whether or not we can -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Dams? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- lower our levels of our 19 lakes. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, I would. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Between-a-Rock-and-Hard-Place 22 Trolinger wants to give us a report. 23 MR. TROLINGER: I'd like to report some good news. 24 Tyler Technologies has provided us with the new jury 25 programming; they call it the jury package. It's a 10-26-09 200 1 replacement for our Legacy program we've been hanging onto 2 for quite some time. We had budgeted $25,000 to install that 3 this year, and they are providing it at no cost. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 5 MS. HYDE: Wow. 6 MR. TROLINGER: I do not know all the details. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: You're everybody's hero today, John. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That sounds like that $10 9 Air-Flight thing fund. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: Did you have a question for me on that, 12 on that Air-Flight? 13 MS. HARGIS: The angel thing? The angel -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Air-Flight, the medical evac. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, what about it? You weren't 16 here. 17 MS. HYDE: Jeannie said you had a question for me? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't have a question for you. 19 If you weren't here to protect yourself, we're going to mess 20 up your payroll. 21 MS. HYDE: Okay -- what? (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I told you she would. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She listened. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Payroll deduction. Don't worry 25 about it. 10-26-09 201 1 MS. HYDE: As long as it's taxable. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You weren't here. You 3 don't know, do you? 4 MS. HYDE: I have no clue. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody else got anything for 6 us? 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, I mean, I think everybody knows 8 it, but we do have a visit with the Internal Revenue Service 9 starting tomorrow. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. We are 10 ready. We have everything. We just, in fact, went over the 11 list again. So, I'm quite sure that we will have some -- a 12 few problems there, so we'll just have to address them and go 13 on best we can. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it a specific reason, or 15 just -- they just thought they'd bless us with their 16 presence? 17 MS. HARGIS: There just were some things prior -- 18 as Eva likes to call it, prior to Jeannie, prior to Mindy, 19 and prior to Eva, that happened that shouldn't, that probably 20 seemed okay at the time. But had they had a little bit more 21 knowledge in payroll and things of that nature, they probably 22 wouldn't have done those. Some of them affect us. Some of 23 them don't. The Adult Probation's probably going to have 24 some areas as well. And, you know, in researching it, you 25 know, it's very easy for me to see. We just have to wait. 10-26-09 202 1 We're -- you remember the first year I was here, I came to 2 y'all and said -- that's been two years ago. So, he's 3 probably got a little checklist already, you know, that he 4 knows what he's going to take, what he's not. We'll just 5 have to go through it, see how we come out. But we -- we 6 really look forward to it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 8 MS. HYDE: Oh, yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How's your husband? 10 MS. HARGIS: He's doing very well, thank you. It 11 was kind of a tough week, but we're still here. But we have 12 one more to go. Probably in six weeks, we have to do it 13 again. But he's -- you know, he's walking around and feeling 14 very -- very glad to be alive. And, you know, we just think 15 we were supposed to be in Galveston; it was the right place, 16 right time. And, you know, God works in mysterious ways. 17 So, I appreciate your concern. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, John gave us the 25; I.R.S. is 19 going to come take it from us, right? Oh, well. Anything 20 else, folks? Judge Sherrill, do you have any words of wisdom 21 for the Court, having previously been in this position, of 22 course? 23 JUDGE SHERRILL: Just adjourn while you're ahead. 24 (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, unfortunately -- well, that's 10-26-09 203 1 right. We don't need to go into that executive session item, 2 then? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. Correct. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Being nothing further, we 5 will adjourn. 6 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:58 p.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 9 10 11 STATE OF TEXAS | 12 COUNTY OF KERR | 13 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 14 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 15 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 16 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 17 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of October, 18 2009. 19 20 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 21 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 22 Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 24 25 10-26-09