1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, November 23, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X November 23, 2009 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 5 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to accept late bid from Windstream Communications 5 for telephone system proposal 14, 82 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to declare certain personal property as surplus 7 and authorize disposing of same 23 8 1.6 Discussion regarding agriculture and natural resources summary for 2009 24 9 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 10 regarding acquiring "Taking Claims" insurance coverage through TAC 36 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, approve Kerr County Community 12 Plan for 2009-2010; authorize submission of the plan to the Alamo Area Council of Governments 40 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, approve which project(s) will 14 be listed on application for funds allocated to Kerr County under the American Recovery and 15 Reinvestment Act through SECO (State Energy Conservation Office) 44 16 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 17 open, read, and award the proposal for a used 66" single drum vibratory compactor 58, 18 136 1.11 Presentation for an on-site shredding service 19 available to any department in the courthouse and/or annex facility; consider/discuss, take 20 appropriate action, and authorize County Judge to sign contract pending approval of County 21 Attorney 59 22 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to award new county courthouse telephone system 23 contract; authorize County Judge to sign same 81, 146 24 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding employee health benefit issues and 25 adoption of 2010 Kerr County employee health benefits plan and/or plan amendments 85 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) November 23 2009 2 PAGE 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for a 3 variance on an easement off of FM 480 in Center Point, Precinct 2 128 4 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 approve private road name request of Jan Dowdy Lane W., Precinct 4 134 6 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 7 a public hearing for approving raising the speed limit to 45 mph and also adding two warning signs 8 for curve on Skyline Dr. in Center Point, Pct. 2 135 9 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for Tax Assessor/Collector's Office to be open 10 March 2nd, 2010, a scheduled holiday, for the 2010 Primary Election 137 11 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 adjust 2009-2010 Kerr County Holiday Schedule 138, 188 13 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with Dietert Center and allow 14 County Judge to sign same 145 15 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize and/or approve preliminary planning, 16 evaluation, and other pre-construction activities or procedures in connection with proposed Law 17 Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation Building --- 18 1.18 Discuss Court Compliance iPlow software project; executive session as required 159 19 4.1 Pay Bills 168 20 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 4.3 Late Bills --- 21 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 176 22 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 177 23 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 179 24 --- Adjourned 190 25 4 1 On Monday, November 23, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, November the 23rd, 2009, at 9a.m. It 11 is that time now. Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 13 join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of 14 allegiance to our flag. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Please be seated. At 17 this time, if there's any member of the public that wishes to 18 be heard with respect to any matter that is not a listed 19 agenda item, this is your opportunity to come forward and 20 tell us what's on your mind. If you wish to be heard on an 21 agenda item -- a posted agenda item, we have, or should have, 22 at the rear of the room some participation forms. We ask 23 that you fill those out so that we're aware that there are 24 parties from the audience that wish to be heard on those 25 items. If we get to those items or any one of those items 11-23-09 5 1 you wish to be heard on and you haven't filled out a 2 participation form, get my attention in some manner and I'll 3 see that you do have the opportunity to be heard. But right 4 now, if there's any member of the audience or public that 5 wishes to be heard with respect to any item that is not a 6 listed agenda item, feel free to come forward at this time 7 and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one coming 8 forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge, the 10 members of the Court. It's a pleasure to bring a really fine 11 group of young people to your attention this morning, the 12 Center Point chapter of the Future Farmers of America. And 13 before I introduce them, I just want to say, as you look at 14 these young people, just keep in mind that it is in the hands 15 of these young people and others like them that are the 16 future of America, and it is great to note that these are the 17 people that will someday take our nation and guide it and 18 direct it and work for it, and be good citizens in the 19 process. So, what I want to talk to you about this morning 20 and introduce is the Center Point chapter of the Future 21 Farmers of America. They went representing the state of 22 Texas to the national conclave in Indianapolis -- national 23 convention, and they were the Texas representative, and they 24 competed against 48 other states with their booth and their 25 great spirit, and all the things that make F.F.A. good for 11-23-09 6 1 young people. And I'm pleased to tell you that they finished 2 second out of 48 states, and they earned 298 out of a 3 possible 300 points for their booth and their display and 4 their enthusiasm and their presentation. 5 So, it's my pleasure to present to you these group 6 of young folks from Center Point. Great young people, and I 7 want to introduce them all to you, starting with their 8 adviser, Cortney Hopper. Please stand, Cortney. Stand up as 9 we call your name, and we'll hold our applause until we're 10 finished, please. Chaperone Dolly Coldwell. Is Dolly not 11 here this morning? Okay. Chaperone Julie Smith. I see 12 Julie back there. Good morning, Julie. The president of the 13 group, Cassie Coldwell. Vice president, Cammie Smith. 14 Secretary is Amanda Weaver. Advisory is Ty Salzman. Member, 15 Jeremy Bullis. Member, William Hart, Levi Mills, Kenzie 16 Smith, and Cody Smith. Would you give these young people a 17 round of applause? 18 (Applause.) 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for being here. 20 Mr. Hopper, would you like to say a word or two about your 21 group? 22 MR. HOPPER: You did good. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Enjoy the rest of the day 24 in school, if you have to go back. You're welcome to stay 25 here as long as you want. 11-23-09 7 1 MS. COLDWELL: They have to go back. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? Or, excuse me. 3 Do you have anything else? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm finished. Thank 5 you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three things. One, I spent a 8 good part of last Wednesday in Austin working on the task 9 force on uniform county subdivision regulations. Interesting 10 group. Interesting first meeting. And it was interesting, 11 really, because -- and you may not be surprised, is that I 12 ended up on the side of the developers, rather than most 13 counties. It is quite amazing how some of our colleagues in 14 other counties -- what they think we should be doing, and we 15 got hung up early on on whether counties should be 16 responsible for affordable housing. And I was -- said that I 17 didn't think that that belonged anywhere in subdivision rules 18 and regulations; that I was very sympathetic to it, but I 19 didn't think it was a county function. However, probably the 20 majority of the group there, certainly the majority of the 21 county officials, thought that was a proper function for a 22 county. So, anyway, we have a long way to go on this 23 meeting. 24 Second, on our appeals -- DFC appeals that are 25 working through the system, Kerr County has been notified 11-23-09 8 1 that we were successful on two of our appeals, the 2 Ellenberger and the Hickory formations, which we were the 3 only ones that appealed those two. The Water Development 4 Board passed -- gave some guidance to GMA-9 and suggested 5 that -- two issues. One, the aquifers were likely not 6 relevant to Kerr County, and also that they were not properly 7 posted for the agenda item that they took. And they 8 suggested that it would be very helpful if GMA-9 would call a 9 quick meeting and clarify their -- their motion and exclude 10 Kerr County and the rest of the GMA to only make it apply to 11 Blanco County. And I visited with the representatives over 12 at Blanco County, and they have agreed -- or they're going to 13 do that, I think, on the 30th, next Monday here, to clarify 14 that that -- their intent was only to include a DFC for 15 Blanco County, and they will explicitly say those aquifers 16 are not relevant for Kerr County. And I told them that if 17 they accomplished that, I will bring it to the Court in 18 December for us to withdraw that appeal, and then we'll 19 decide if we do it or not. But, anyway, that's good news. 20 It just shows that, at least on those two, we were on firm 21 ground, because the Water Development Board doesn't want that 22 to get to the full board; they want it handled ahead of time. 23 And the final item, a little bit on -- I know we 24 have several reporters here -- on the CCN issue. Really, I'm 25 a little concerned on the article, primarily in the Daily 11-23-09 9 1 Times. I don't want to throw rocks at them, and I know -- 2 but their article did not even hit the point, in my opinion, 3 that they had in the paper. And it was brought up, I know, 4 at the meeting that I was at -- Commissioner Oehler was 5 there, and I think Commissioner Baldwin was there as well -- 6 that the -- Todd Parton, the City Manager, finally said, 7 after some questions by me, that the only thing that's going 8 -- that the City's going to be able to do after -- or if they 9 get the CCN is be able to provide fire protection with red 10 hydrants in high density developments. And in their whole 11 area, that's the only thing that they're going to be able to 12 do that they can't do right now under the current subdivision 13 rules that we're working on with the City. And I think it is 14 a -- a huge point, that if that's the only gain that's going 15 to be made -- 'cause they're not going to go back and 16 retrofit all the black fire hydrants in the ETJ, or in their 17 CCN boundary. It's only going to cover getting red hydrants 18 in new subdivisions. And if that's their only purpose, I 19 think they're being really misleading to the public of -- of 20 Kerr County by not so stating that very clearly. They're 21 jumping through lots of hoops, and it's really disappointing 22 that they're not being more forthright, and I'm a little bit 23 disappointed the paper didn't really cover that a little bit 24 more thoroughly. That's it. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I -- I go along with 11-23-09 10 1 everything you said. And I think -- I don't think; I -- it 2 seems that the City is -- is misleading people in that very 3 -- that very way, and trying to get people in the proposed 4 new area to believe that they're going to provide better fire 5 protection. Well, I don't believe they're going to expend 6 one dime to do that. Residents of Kerrville are not 7 obligated to pay for fire protection outside the city limits, 8 I don't believe. And like Jon said, there are only going to 9 be a few areas that could be subject to the new regulation, 10 and most of those areas have opted out because they're 11 25 acres or more. So, anyway, that's -- I think we've all 12 heard just about enough about all that mess, but we'll see 13 what happens. 14 On the good side, last Wednesday, the Judge and I 15 went over to U.G.R.A., and they, for the first time that I 16 can remember -- I think it is the first time -- had an award 17 to present to our Environmental Health Department. And that 18 is -- that's quite something to have that cooperation, that 19 they feel like they're being included in the loop and that 20 we're being responsive to what they're wanting us to do, and 21 I just want to recognize Ray and his department for 22 everything they've done to make this possible. And I believe 23 he has the real nice framed -- framed plaque. And I asked 24 the whole office staff to be here, because it's the whole 25 group that does this; it's not just one person. And I tell 11-23-09 11 1 you what, we have -- we've got a real fine group of -- of 2 office staff down there, as well as Ray being the manager. 3 Just -- it's made a lot of difference in the feeling of our 4 public and the taxpayers toward our Environmental Health 5 Department, I believe. And to get U.G.R.A. on board, wow. 6 That's about as special as it gets, for them to recognize the 7 County as being a real participant in trying to keep Kerr 8 County clean and keep the river clean. Ray, would you like 9 to say something? But thanks to y'all, every one of you. 10 Y'all are a part of what goes on. You're part of the 11 success, and thank you for doing it. I mean, you -- I think 12 you have the support of this full court. I don't know of 13 anybody up here that doesn't support you. Ray? 14 MR. GARCIA: Yeah. I'd just like to say I'm really 15 proud of staff, and I think Kerr County and the Kerr County 16 residents are very fortunate to have a staff that's this 17 dedicated to protecting our environment, and always out there 18 doing their due diligence to make sure that the county is 19 taken care of. And also, this goes both ways. It goes along 20 with the Commissioners Court and the support of the Kerr 21 County residents. It goes with the County Attorney's office 22 helping us prosecute a lot of these environmental crimes that 23 come along. The acting County Attorney, when Rex was sitting 24 down there as County Attorney, she had really helped us on 25 the tip of the sword, tip of the spear. She was very 11-23-09 12 1 cooperative with us, her and Rex, and they helped us a lot. 2 Like I said, along with all the support across the board, and 3 really, really fortunate to have this type of a team for Kerr 4 County and its residents, and I applaud my staff for their 5 exceptional professionalism. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hear, hear. 7 (Applause.) 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good job, guys. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you very much. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take care. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's probably enough out of 14 me. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, we'll go down here 16 to Commissioner Baldwin. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's going to be 18 hard to follow. The -- Saturday night, I was here watching 19 the Christmas parade, and I understand there were 88 floats 20 in that thing. It looked like about 888, but there were -- 21 it was huge parade, and it was neat, and everybody was -- it 22 was a fun thing. And then afterwards, this entire yard was 23 full of people for the ceremony out in the front door, and 24 Santa Claus is cool. That's all I know. That's all. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quickie, which I 11-23-09 13 1 want to concur with what Commissioner Letz said a moment ago. 2 And what troubles me so much about this whole issue is the 3 fact that not -- not all of the people who needed to be 4 notified were notified. Letters went out to something like 5 450 people, but there were probably four times that many who 6 did not receive notices who may have had parcels of land 7 under 25 acres, or have had several parcels cobbled together, 8 maybe 100 acres or whatever, and they didn't receive the 9 notification. And it's from a lot of these people that all 10 of us have received phone calls about, "What is this all 11 about? What does it mean to me?" and so forth and so on. 12 So, we'll see how it all shakes out, but it's a troubling 13 issue. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- we'll put it on 15 the agenda to maybe discuss it more. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Speaking of kudos, following up what 17 you mentioned, Commissioner Baldwin, the -- this entire 18 production for the courthouse lighting and kicking off of the 19 Christmas season that goes on here in Kerrville every year, I 20 think kudos need to go out to all of the folks in our 21 Maintenance Department, because they are an integral part of 22 making all of this happen, particularly here on the 23 courthouse grounds, and they also utilize some community 24 service workers. They -- they're pitching in and doing their 25 part, but all of this is done under the supervision of our 11-23-09 14 1 maintenance people here, so they're to be commended for their 2 fine job. Everything went off real well; everybody seemed to 3 have a great time, and we're into the Christmas season once 4 again just before Thanksgiving. 5 Let's get on with the agenda. The first item on 6 the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 7 action to accept late bid from Windstream Communications for 8 telephone system proposal. The item was put on the agenda at 9 that time request of Kimberly Dandurand. In setting this up, 10 I might note that -- I believe the bids were required to be 11 received by 10:30 at our last Commissioners Court meeting, 12 and, of course, immediately after that we took a break. I 13 was out in the hall; I believe Ms. Pieper was there also, and 14 it -- it was probably at most 10 minutes after that deadline 15 that Ms. Dandurand mentioned to us something about submitting 16 a bid. And that's when -- and we mentioned to her that that 17 deadline had passed. And subsequent to that, when she 18 inquired what she might do to receive consideration, I 19 mentioned that she -- the appropriate thing would be for her 20 to ask that -- request for late consideration, late filing be 21 permitted, and put it on the agenda before the Court and come 22 forward and explain whatever the extenuating circumstances 23 were. And, as a consequence, she's here today, and it 24 appears like she's got some more folks. And so I'm going to 25 turn it over to you at this time, Ms. Dandurand. 11-23-09 15 1 MS. DANDURAND: Thank you, Judge. For the record, 2 my name is Kimberly Dandurand. I'm with Windstream 3 Communications; work at 812 Water Street. I appreciate the 4 Court's time this morning to see us. I do want to apologize 5 for our late entry. Just -- the time specifications just got 6 away, and about 10 minutes late to submit our bid. I was in 7 the hallway and asked if we would be considered today. So, I 8 appreciate your time today for that circumstance. Just 9 driving here from Boerne, sir. Again, I want to apologize 10 for delaying your process to be considered for this. I think 11 Windstream is an important member of the community here, both 12 in Kerrville and Kerr County. We are -- have been a partner 13 with Kerr County in telephones -- local telephone service and 14 internet for over 20 years. We are an active community 15 member, member of the chamber, participate in several 16 philanthropic activities here in the county, for the holidays 17 as well as throughout the rest of the year. Our technicians 18 all live and work here in Kerrville, Rusty Henderson's team. 19 They have more than 20 years experience, as well as in the 20 telephone and internet industry, so they bring a lot to 21 the -- to the table, as well as Windstream offering superior 22 products, Nortel Mitel Solutions for your telephone system. 23 We did an active inventory. We did two -- two inventory 24 compilations for the County to make sure we were thorough in 25 our bid to you. So, I just want to ask the Court if they are 11-23-09 16 1 able to consider this bid, and try to earn your business. We 2 will work hard to do so, and appreciate your time again. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Ms. Dandurand? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no questions. 5 MS. DANDURAND: And I just have extra copies. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a question, if you don't 7 mind. 8 MS. DANDURAND: Yes, sir? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Was there a particular reason or 10 reasons for your late arrival on that date and inability to 11 meet the 10:30 deadline? 12 MS. DANDURAND: Just some car trouble, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 14 MS. DANDURAND: Just some car trouble. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Car trouble? 16 MS. DANDURAND: Yes, sir, from Boerne. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And you were coming from Boerne? 18 MS. DANDURAND: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions for 20 Ms. Dandurand? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The dog didn't eat the 22 homework? 23 MS. DANDURAND: No, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: No, the package is here. It 25 ultimately got filed with the County Clerk, I believe, but 11-23-09 17 1 the final time on it is actually somewhere around noon, so I 2 wanted to -- when I set up the agenda item, I wanted to 3 mention that. And I believe someone else was there other 4 than you and I, Ms. Pieper, when it was mentioned out in the 5 hall shortly after the break. 6 MS. DANDURAND: I believe it was the County Clerk, 7 Judge. 8 MS. PIEPER: I think Cheryl may have been with us. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Just wanted to let the Court 10 know that we weren't talking about two hours; we were talking 11 about possibly 10 minutes. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, you did exactly 13 the right thing, and I appreciate you doing that. And I 14 appreciate you coming up and apologizing. That's kind of 15 neat. How many -- how many bids do we have? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four, it seems. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Four. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Four? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder what the other 20 companies think about somebody coming in late. You know, 21 would they approve of it, or would they have heartburn over 22 it? Or if we -- if we accepted her apology and allowed her 23 to come in, and -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess one possibility, 25 Commissioner, would be to defer making a decision today and 11-23-09 18 1 inquire of them. That would certainly be one possibility 2 of -- for us to do today. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my concern is really 4 more of a precedent issue than anything else. And if it's, 5 you know, 15 minutes, well, does that mean, then -- is an 6 hour okay? If an hour's okay, well, then, is two hours -- 7 you know, you get down there. And I -- and the other part of 8 that precedent side -- let me go to the County Attorney. Can 9 we do this? Can we just decide to not follow our bid 10 guidelines? 11 MS. BAILEY: Well, the potential down side is that 12 if you were to decide that their bid was the best one, and 13 would select it, then the other proposers would have the 14 opportunity to object to it on the basis that it wasn't a 15 timely filed bid. So, you do run a certain amount of risk, 16 but I think you could accept it. But the concern about 17 setting a precedent I think is a real concern. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the thing that comes to mind 19 is, number one, we want the maximum competition in our bid 20 process, obviously. That's always healthy, and generally 21 produces better results for us. On the other hand, the 22 precedential aspect is a consideration on the down side. 23 Certainly, I don't think there was even the remotest 24 possibility for there to be any -- any leg up, as it were, in 25 view of the short time frame and the fact that the other bids 11-23-09 19 1 had just been opened, with no disclosure as to what the 2 content of them was. So, we -- we don't have that issue 3 coming in. But you're right, Commissioner; you've got the 4 precedential value, and it's a matter of discretion whether 5 we do or don't. And the -- the bid specs themselves -- do 6 they say absolutely no bids will be accepted after -- after 7 the filing date? I know they always say that we have the 8 right to accept or reject all bids. That's always in there. 9 MS. BAILEY: It just said -- but it was 10:15. 10 Bids were due by 10:15, and she came about 10:20 or 10:25, I 11 think. However, I don't know if it makes any difference to 12 you, but I was told prior to 10:15, that she had already 13 notified, I guess, Jannett that she was going to be late, so 14 I don't know if that makes any difference to you. Was it 15 you, Jannett? Someone told me that, -- 16 MS. PIEPER: No, it wasn't me. 17 MS. BAILEY: -- that she was going to be late. And 18 so I don't know if that's what you want to hang your hat on 19 as far as creating a precedent. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, to me, you 21 know, the only way I would go along with it is if other 22 ones -- other bidders, you know, said in writing that they 23 had no problem with it, and they thought it should be 24 accepted. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think one way to do 11-23-09 20 1 it, too, would be to notify the other bidders and give them 2 the option to say, "Let my bid stand under the circumstances, 3 and it's fine that we go -- that you go forward with awarding 4 the best bid." As long -- if they say, "No, she was late," 5 you know, "we're not going to go along with that; we want a 6 chance to rebid," if that's going to be the case, I think we 7 need to give them an option, 'cause they were here in a 8 timely manner. I mean, there were extenuating circumstances 9 that didn't allow them to -- Windstream to -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if you get into -- let 11 me ask you something. If you get into the rebidding thing, 12 aren't those numbers tainted? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think we've disclosed 14 any of them yet. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, you're not 16 talking about actually opening them and -- and then seeing if 17 the other companies protest? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm-mm, no. I'm saying that 19 we don't disclose any of the content -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They have been opened, but 21 they just haven't been disclosed. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we don't know whether or 24 not those other bidders have been compromised by reason of 25 this bid. We don't know that. 11-23-09 21 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I know. 2 MS. PIEPER: Judge, I will tell that you I received 3 a phone call from one of the bidders last week, because they 4 thought we had accepted it. And I explained, no, we have 5 not. But that bidder was upset that -- because they thought 6 we had accepted it, because of the time limit. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go Letz' route and get 8 it in writing that they are thrilled to death with us. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can do it -- I mean, you 10 know, it needs to be clear that they're not going to be -- we 11 have no issue one way other the other. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm saying. You 13 know, if they don't object to the process, and -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- and none of the 16 information has been disclosed, then I don't see a problem 17 with it. But if somebody objects, I don't think I can 18 support taking a late bid. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This could be handled by 21 e-mail for expeditious responses. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. And they need to be 23 aware that none of the information has been divulged. Or a 24 decision -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's important that 11-23-09 22 1 all bidders know that the Court is not aware of the contents 2 of their bids. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, you -- you have kept 4 all the information in those bids within your purview and 5 control, and that's not been disclosed to anybody except 6 people in your department? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Affirmative. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 THE CLERK: Judge, that information has all been 10 scanned into Laser Fiche in Commissioners Court records, 11 which are open to the public, so if anybody has come in to 12 search the records, they would be aware of that information. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Over-efficient. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So much for nondisclosure. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 16 THE CLERK: And I do know that one company has done 17 that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We should presume that they all 19 have. Our own efficiency has -- has us in a dilemma here. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it has. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we go -- you know, I'll 22 make a motion that we accept the Windstream bid only if the 23 other bidders concur that it's acceptable to them. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 11-23-09 23 1 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. We'll see where 7 it goes, folks. 8 MS. DANDURAND: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your interest in 10 trying to do business with us, and sorry this happened. 11 Let's go to Item 2; consider, discuss, take appropriate 12 action to declare certain personal property as surplus and 13 authorize disposing of the same. Ms. Pieper? 14 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, we have some old 15 secretarial chairs and woods chairs and some metal typing 16 stands we don't use that we need to get rid of, so we'd like 17 the get them declared surplus. The chairs are unsafe. I 18 think the secretarial chairs have the four -- I don't know -- 19 pedestals? I don't know what you call them, but they're the 20 unsafe ones. So, we've been -- we've replaced them. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move that the property 22 identified by the County Clerk be declared surplus, and 23 authorize the disposing of the same. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11-23-09 24 1 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only comment that I have 3 is it would be nice if we had that list so that we're 4 approving a particular list. Not just -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on there, Page 2. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have Page 2, I'm 7 sorry to -- I'm sorry. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two secretarial chairs, two 9 wood chairs, and two metal typing stands. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's got the inventory tag 11 numbers. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Oh, it's right here. 13 It's after 18. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that where it is? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 17 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. We'll move to 22 our 9:30 item, for a discussion regarding agriculture and 23 natural resources summary for 2009. Mr. Walston? 24 MR. WALSTON: Good morning, gentlemen. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 11-23-09 25 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 2 MR. WALSTON: I'd like to present y'all an outcome 3 summary that do I on an annual basis on one of my program 4 areas that my Ag Natural Resource Committee, along with 5 myself, select. For the last several years, we have been 6 working primarily with new landowners, small-acreage 7 landowners as -- as our major outcome area. And why we call 8 it an outcome area, it's an opportunity for us to evaluate 9 knowledge gained with this audience. Not to say that this is 10 the only particular area that we're working in. Of course, 11 there's numerous other projects that we're working on, and 12 I'll go over those in a little bit -- a little bit, a few of 13 those, later on. But this is our outcome area. We targeted 14 the wildlife audience and our small-acreage landowners. 15 And some of the programs that we did in response, 16 one of the things that we had an opportunity to do this year 17 was a presentation to our data gathering group here in Kerr 18 County that showed our overall statistics from 1946 to -- or 19 1949 to 2009, and what our acreage and landowners did. And 20 in 1949, our average acreage in Kerr County, we had right at 21 500 landowners, 580 ranchers, with 1,100 average acres, the 22 farm size being -- average size is 1,100 acres. And in 2009, 23 we have 1,226 operations, with an average farm size of 24 500 acres -- so we've completely swapped ends on that -- with 25 a mean size of 105 acres. So, we're working a lot with 11-23-09 26 1 small-acreage landowners, and that's why we're trying to 2 target this group as far as educational information. 3 Our primary program that we had this year was the 4 Hill Country Wildlife Management Symposium; had 50 producers 5 in attendance. And in this program, we talked everything 6 from condemnation of land for various uses, as well as 7 understanding landowner cooperatives. Also, resource 8 management under high fence. And this program was primarily 9 targeted on high fence, because Kerr County has more total 10 miles of high fence than any county in the state of Texas, 11 and so when we -- we wanted to tell these people that, you 12 know, when you do purchase this property and it is 13 high-fenced and you think it's exactly what you're wanting, 14 really what you're going to be getting in for, 'cause 15 management intensity is considerably greater. 16 On the second page, it'll show you the results of 17 each one of these evaluations, and the increase in knowledge 18 on the programs that we -- the information that we presented. 19 Another presentation that we had was a Farm Pond Management 20 field day at Camp Verde. We had Dr. Michael Masser, our 21 Extension wildlife biologist, presented a program on water 22 quality, stocking farm ponds, population management, and weed 23 identification and control. Had an excellent program, and he 24 did an excellent job for us, and we had really a good 25 information exchange with the landowners, with 108 percent 11-23-09 27 1 increase in knowledge and understanding the control measures 2 of aquatic weeds. 'Cause in Kerr County, with most of our 3 ponds being in stream beds that tend to be flooded 4 periodically, we continuously get an influx of weed 5 population in those ponds, and so trying to keep those clean 6 is nearly impossible. So, that's a continuing problem that 7 we always face. 8 Our next program that we had was in combination 9 with our master gardeners, and it was a rainwater harvesting 10 workshop. Which, actually, we had several; it was kind of an 11 ongoing deal. When we first started, our master gardeners 12 decided that they were going to make rain barrels, and we had 13 about 50 rain barrels to make, and we thought that would be 14 plenty. And before we had the workshop, the 50 were gone. 15 These are 55-gallon plastic drums that we -- the master 16 gardeners volunteer; we put together a program and basically 17 taught the public on how to make a rain barrel, collection 18 barrel off their downspout off their roof, or whatever 19 cachement source surface they may have. After we got through 20 with those 50 rain barrels, we made another 80 rain barrels, 21 and they were all gone. So, we put out 120 55-gallon rain 22 barrels, and they finally stopped. They said enough's 23 enough; said, "We've got the idea out. They understand how 24 to do it." 25 And, so, with 120 rain barrels out and sources, 11-23-09 28 1 that's 6,600 gallons of rainwater that they've had if that's 2 just collected one time, and I'm sure that's overflowing. 3 So, the primary purpose of this was to provide homeowners an 4 opportunity to learn how to collect rainwater, even though 5 it's on a small scale. I know after this last year, we've 6 had a lot of interest in rainwater collection systems on a 7 lot of larger scales, and they're going in all over the 8 county. So, it was really a rewarding opportunity to work 9 with those individual -- individuals in actually building 10 their own rain barrels. 11 To change topics just a little bit, we're in the 12 midst of our 4-H livestock season. With our -- we'll be 13 finishing up our swine validation this afternoon. We've 14 completed our lamb and goat and steer validation numbers for 15 this year. To give you an idea how we're sitting as far as 16 4-H exhibitors and numbers are concerned, in comparison to 17 last year, in 2008, we -- we had 186 exhibitors, including 18 all four -- now, these are market animals. Our -- our 19 breeding animals, most of those kids also exhibit market 20 animals, so they're also included in this as well; however, 21 the breeding numbers are not included in my project numbers. 22 We had 186 exhibitors in 2008. This year we're up to 208 23 exhibitors, 4-H exhibitors. Out of those, we had -- this 24 year we have 36 of those exhibitors with 77 projects on 25 lambs, 25 exhibitors exhibiting 42 steers, 75 -- 75 4-H'ers 11-23-09 29 1 exhibiting 142 meat goat projects, 72 exhibitors exhibiting 2 146 swine projects. All of these are up, with the exception 3 of the market lamb project, which is down 10 head. So, 4 that's one that it's -- we're losing our large number of 5 exhibitors, or exhibitors that's feeding larger numbers. And 6 nearly every project, an average project size for most of 7 these kids is two animals, and that's kind of where it's 8 working out. 9 Our livestock project center, we have currently six 10 swine exhibitors in it, nine lamb exhibitors, and two goat 11 exhibitors, with 17 head of market hogs, 14 market lambs, and 12 two market goats. So, this year we also have 44 exhibitors. 13 There's nobody competing in major stock shows. So, that kind 14 of gives you an idea where we're at. And I'm glad to see our 15 numbers up in those areas. I was a little concerned last 16 year; we had some of them drop, and it seems like it's kind 17 of leveled off and starting to come back. And I had a 18 feeling that maybe the economy may have had something to do 19 with that. Seems like maybe it's going to hold on. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Roy, in the new barn out there that 21 we've configured for some of these youngsters to have animals 22 that don't otherwise have a place to do those projects, are 23 all of those pens spoken for and being utilized now? 24 MR. WALSTON: No, we've got one lamb and goat pen 25 that is available. I say "available." The projects have 11-23-09 30 1 already been validated, so we got one extra there. And we've 2 got about half the swine project pens that are being used. 3 So, we've got actually 24 swine pens, and we're using about 4 half of those, so we've still got about 12 pens left. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And one lamb? 6 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: But other -- how many total pens do 8 you have? 9 MR. WALSTON: We've got 11 lamb and goat pens and 10 24 swine pens, so we're at 35 total pens. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, we've got significant 12 capacity available? 13 MR. WALSTON: You bet. You bet. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. WALSTON: We've got a good -- if we fill it up, 16 we can hold, supposedly, two hogs to a pen, which is 48 head; 17 three to four lambs and goats. You know, we can hold 75 head 18 in that barn when it's maximum full. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: My point is, if there's any 20 youngsters that don't have a place to do their project that 21 want to do a project, we can certainly have some room. 22 MR. WALSTON: I think it will -- I think next year 23 we'll continue. We've got -- out of these exhibitors that we 24 have -- let's see, we've got four -- four of those lamb and 25 goat exhibitors that are brand-new, that this is their first 11-23-09 31 1 year, and one of the swine exhibitors that this is their 2 first year. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Roy, in the -- on your 4 small-acreage seminars, do you do any follow-up to see if 5 they're -- if they're doing -- I know they learn it, but do 6 they implement it? 7 MR. WALSTON: I did -- and I didn't include it in 8 this, but I did on the rainwater harvesting workshop, as to 9 what they were planning on doing. I did have that. I just 10 didn't get it included on this as to exactly what they were 11 doing or what they were planning on doing. As to what 12 they -- actually follow up to know for sure what they've 13 actually got done, I haven't -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be interesting, on 15 the -- the range management one, to get some follow-up and 16 see. I mean, it's easy to go to the seminars and learn the 17 stuff. It's a lot of work to implement, especially if you're 18 under deer-proof fence. 19 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, even just a 21 questionnaire. I'm sure you have the names and addresses, 22 and see how they put it into practice to see if they -- and 23 make it simple and get the feedback. And they're probably 24 going to exaggerate to make you happy, but -- but you might 25 get some idea as to -- 11-23-09 32 1 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, some of the more 3 serious things that I think occur on 10 or 12 acres or 20, 4 people buy two or three horses and put them on there, and 5 then they have a cow and a few goats. You know, looks like 6 the dark side of the moon. They don't realize that you can't 7 carry so much stock and still be able to maintain cover. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even -- even pasture rotation 9 on 10 acres to 5 acres helps. I mean, just moving them back 10 and forth. 11 MR. WALSTON: We've focused more on resource -- 12 range resource management in the years past, whereas we 13 didn't this year. This year we focused a little more on 14 wildlife management, because we worked more on rangeland 15 resource in the years past. But we can go back and see what 16 they've been implementing over the past -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It'd just be interesting to 18 see. 19 MR. WALSTON: Uh-huh. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Roy, on your rainwater 21 harvesting, were your seminars devoted to just how to catch 22 water for local irrigation purposes, or did you get into 23 domestic use and so forth in larger systems? 24 MR. WALSTON: It was primarily on -- on just the 25 collection, and water as a resource and utilizing it, kind of 11-23-09 33 1 as a -- whether it be on landscape or wildlife. And then it 2 can be -- it can be extrapolated into a larger system. So, 3 this particular workshop was primarily focused on landscape, 4 on small collection for -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's kind of an 6 interesting -- we dealt with this issue several years ago, 7 and the result -- the result of that was not too much 8 interest, but the interest is really growing now. 9 MR. WALSTON: Interest has changed in the last 10 year. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And people are inquiring 12 more and more about it, and people are making suggestions 13 about, "Why doesn't the Court do thus-and-so about rainwater 14 harvesting?" So, it's really gathering steam. I'm glad you 15 did it. 16 MR. WALSTON: I've had -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The answer to that is, we 18 can't afford it any more. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's some new homes going in 21 that -- I know two in Kerr County that have no wells planned, 22 and 100 percent rainwater cachement, putting in 30,000-gallon 23 tanks. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 25 MR. WALSTON: I had one gentleman came in, and he 11-23-09 34 1 said -- he said, "It's going to cost me probably $20,000 to 2 put in a complete system," he said, "but we've got to do it. 3 We can't go through this again." And he sent me pictures 4 where he's put in a 30,000-gallon system. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've got them looking pretty 6 nice. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a state association that I 8 believe last year met here in Kerrville. 9 MR. WALSTON: They're going to meet here again this 10 year. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They're scheduled to meet here again 12 in March. It's -- I can't recall the name; it's a rainwater 13 harvesting statewide organization, and they'll be here in 14 March. So, I think that's probably bringing a lot of 15 interest and knowledge, particularly to this area, more so 16 than in some of the other areas in the country. But -- 17 MR. WALSTON: We do have -- some of it's simple and 18 some of it's pretty complicated. If you go to using it for 19 in-house use, by the time you go through all your filtering 20 systems, it gets somewhat complicated. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And expensive. 22 MR. WALSTON: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Roy, the aquatic weed 24 control program. 25 MR. WALSTON: Yes, sir? 11-23-09 35 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Recently, I was a guest on a 2 ranch in my precinct, and this guy has these ponds, and it's 3 the cutest thing you've ever seen. And he had put together 4 an electric lawnmower that he lowered down in that thing, and 5 chik-a-chik-a-chik, just ran it across. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lawnmower? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it cut the weeds at 8 ground level, and they floated to the top and washed down to 9 the spillway, and you go out there and pick them up, haul 10 them off. But it was the cutest thing. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Electric lawnmower? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, little lawnmower 13 thing. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bet you didn't want to 15 stick your finger in that water, did you? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's sealed up. He 17 also had some black bass in there about like this. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Once you got the weeds out, 19 you could see the bass. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That was the reason I 21 was there; I'm a bass inspector. (Laughter.) 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Amongst other things. 23 MR. WALSTON: Of course, we usually get those calls 24 about June, you know, when people start seeing kind of weed 25 control -- weed problems that they have. And, of course, 11-23-09 36 1 June's, you know, 100 degrees, and not the time we really 2 need to be treating weeds. And so we try to recommend going 3 to the grass carp route, and that's -- in our situations, if 4 you can contain them, those are -- for the long term, that's 5 the most cost-effective way to go. And, of course, most of 6 the time, people want something immediately. You know, they 7 want something -- they want it out now. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. That's why they wait until 9 June to call. 10 MR. WALSTON: Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to 11 worry about it, but when they want it, they want it now. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Mr. Walston? 13 Thank you for your report. We appreciate it. 14 MR. WALSTON: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on with Item 3 on our 16 agenda, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action 17 regarding acquiring taking claims insurance coverage through 18 TAC. Ms. Hargis? 19 MS. HARGIS: Good morning. Our insurance carrier, 20 the Texas Association of Counties, has offered new coverage 21 to us on what they call taking of claims. This coverage is 22 $500 a year, and it pertains to us taking -- if we took a 23 claim on land, and that homeowner wanted -- or property owner 24 didn't like what we did, and they came back and sued us, we 25 don't have insurance to cover that. And so they're offering 11-23-09 37 1 this coverage for $500 a year. So, it's up to the Court if 2 you want to add this. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, it's defense coverage 4 only? 5 MS. HARGIS: It's defense coverage. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The liability coverage is -- 7 MS. HARGIS: Is there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably -- there's probably -- 9 MS. HARGIS: The liability coverage -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a double immunity? 11 MS. HARGIS: It's covered in our general liability. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But there is defense coverage? 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: In the event there's claims asserted 15 or lawsuits filed under the taking doctrine. And that's what 16 we're talking about, essentially? 17 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, "taking"? 19 Are you talking about eminent domain issues? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there are a number of claims 21 of taking that can be made short of eminent domain. We take 22 some restrictive action with respect to someone's property, 23 and they say effectively it constitutes a taking, because 24 we've so restricted their use, for example, and they assert a 25 claim against us for a taking. Sometimes it's referred to as 11-23-09 38 1 inverse condemnation, where you impact somebody's land by 2 virtue of some action that a governmental body takes. It 3 effectively constitutes a -- a taking or a condemnation. So, 4 that's what it's all about. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, I just can't 6 see that -- I mean, it's only $500, but I just can't see -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't get much out of it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that we -- I know in the -- 9 as long as I've been a Commissioner, we've never had a 10 takings claim against us. So, I just -- and, you know, I 11 just don't think -- we just don't do that kind of stuff. I 12 mean, even on right-of-way, if they don't want to give it to 13 us, I mean, I just don't see how we -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we get into it 15 sometimes with subdivision plat situations where we restrict 16 a lot from certain -- from building on it for certain 17 reasons? Because we've done that. But we never had a claim; 18 I agree with that. We've never had a claim. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess you could get there if 20 someone was really that irritated with us, said that we're -- 21 because of our rules, that we are taking their property. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you have -- you have a 23 new -- as an example, I own a quarter acre with a house on it 24 with an aerobic septic system. I can't add a room. I can't 25 do anything. I can't add a garage. I can't add anything, 11-23-09 39 1 because this -- the sewer system takes up the -- my property. 2 So, in reality, you've taken my land. I can't make any 3 improvement. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ray did it, I didn't. 5 (Laughter.) No, I -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Remember that nice fella that was in 7 here? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that one. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Did such a great job. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce did it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess we're getting more and 12 more people that sue you for no reason. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But my whole thinking 14 on this thing is that -- you know how we -- we recently were 15 looking at all of our health insurance, and we basically look 16 at that every year. I think that we need to start looking at 17 everything that TAC does with us as well, as closely as we do 18 our health insurance. And I wouldn't -- I don't want to add 19 on something else when, in my mind, we need to be taking a 20 look at them, what they're doing with us anyway. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is a -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to say no. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion to decline the 24 coverage? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there -- if a motion is 11-23-09 40 1 needed or required, certainly it is. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got to respond that we 3 either accept it or decline it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I decline it. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could I ask one question? 7 Is this a specific exclusion on our current liability 8 coverage? 9 MS. HARGIS: It will be, yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will be? 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. We haven't accepted or declined 12 it yet. That's the reason I'm bringing it to you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we decline the nice 14 offer. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to decline 17 the takings coverage. Question or discussion? All in favor 18 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 23 Item 4; consider, discuss, take appropriate action -- and 24 approve the Kerr County Community Plan for 2009-2010 and 25 authorize submission of the plan to Alamo Area Council of 11-23-09 41 1 Governments. Ms. Lavender. 2 MS. LAVENDER: Good morning, gentlemen. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Chief project person for the county. 4 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MS. LAVENDER: Whatever title you'd like to give 7 me. Community plan, we've done this now many years. It 8 becomes a basis for grant applications through the Criminal 9 Justice funds through the governor's office in the -- right 10 after Christmastime. That's what is the basis for mine, and 11 Hill Country Crisis Council and Kids Advocacy Place and 12 Baptist Child and Family Services, and a number of grants 13 that are in existence are done through this program. But it 14 also gives us an opportunity to look at other community 15 issues that need to be included. And I think if you read 16 through the health and family issues, you saw the need the 17 health professionals identified for additional primary care 18 physicians in the community. And there may be, hopefully, 19 some funds through the Texas Health Department that maybe 20 they'll be able to apply for. And there's also some mental 21 health requests in there, the need for some additional 22 funding for our mental health issues in the county, which 23 seem to be growing. As the state cuts back on mental health 24 funding, our needs continue to increase in Kerr County, to 25 provide the kind of services that we need to for the 11-23-09 42 1 population that we've had here -- that we have here. 2 So, the only big issue I would point out to you in 3 this plan this year is under the law enforcement corrections 4 and courts deal. We're going to look at funding the 5 equipment and training for officers from each of the three 6 law enforcement agencies here to do our own forensic computer 7 diagnosis, because if you send cell phones or computers to 8 Austin, to D.P.S., sometimes it takes six months to do it, to 9 get the results back, and in the meantime, you've got the 10 people that have committed the crimes out there, sometimes 11 recommitting, reoffending. And so we're going to look at 12 applying for the equipment, and hopefully Rusty will find a 13 little closet somewhere that we can put it and train people 14 from each law enforcement agency to do their own forensics on 15 cell phones and computers, and hopefully speed up some 16 prosecution in the courts here on those kind of crimes. We 17 had over 80 situations last year where we could have used 18 that technology, and we only were able to get two back from 19 D.P.S. And so that's what we -- we're kind of hoping we'll 20 be able to do this year. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What three agencies? 22 MS. LAVENDER: Ingram, Kerrville Police, and 23 Sheriff's Office would each have an officer that could go 24 through the training, and then when they had a case that they 25 needed to use the equipment to do it, then they would just go 11-23-09 43 1 in to do it themselves. If they needed help from the other 2 agencies, they could ask, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have -- do you have a 4 dollar figure on this? 5 MS. LAVENDER: It's about 17,500, I think, for the 6 equipment and training; it's not real expensive. And, so, it 7 will be something we believe that -- that AACOG and CJAC 8 committee will be sympathetic to. And then if we want to 9 expand it and let other counties come in and -- and do it, we 10 can charge for doing it or whatever. That would be something 11 the law enforcement people would have to do. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the only major 13 change? 14 MS. LAVENDER: Really, that's probably the biggest 15 thing in the plan. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If my memory is correct, you 17 scored really high with AACOG on your plan. 18 MS. LAVENDER: Thank you. Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 MS. LAVENDER: Hopefully we'll continue to do that. 21 Anyway, it has to be submitted by the end of November, and so 22 this is our window day to approve it. I would ask that you 23 approve it. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move approval of 25 the Kerr County Community Plan for 2009-10, and authorize the 11-23-09 44 1 submission of the plan to Alamo Area Council of Governments. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 10 to Item 5; consider, discuss, and approve which projects will 11 be listed on the application for funds allocated to Kerr 12 County under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act 13 through the State Energy Conservation Office, which is part 14 of the Texas Comptroller's office. Kerr County has been 15 allotted $100,000. Projects must not have funds already 16 allocated in the county's budget for 2009-2010. 17 Ms. Lavender? 18 MS. LAVENDER: Well, I apologize for not having the 19 backup information. We were in the process of trying to get 20 bids late last week, and I was in Austin at a victims 21 conference, and so Tim's been busy trying to get all this 22 together. And, actually, we have one more to even add to 23 that list beyond what's on there. If you'll go -- you can 24 make it four and a half, if you'd like to, and add another 25 one on there. It's to replace the two basement air 11-23-09 45 1 conditioner units here in the courthouse with heat pumps, and 2 the total figure on it is $12,954. And that's through 3 Airtech. And if you'll let me kind of -- I'm going to speak 4 a little bit to it; then if you have any real serious 5 questions, Tim will have to answer the questions. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the number you 7 just gave us? 8 MS. LAVENDER: 12,954. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12,9. Thank you. 10 MS. LAVENDER: Yes. What -- we went -- I went -- 11 well, I came to you in November and we talked about this, and 12 we -- the State has allotted $100,000 to us. It's not a 13 competitive grant. It's, "This is how much money you get." 14 At the time, I had only talked to them on the telephone. In 15 early November, I went to a workshop over at Johnson City 16 that the Comptroller's office, the SECO people put on, and it 17 wasn't real informative, but I did learn some things that 18 made us have to take a little bit different direction with 19 this, which is not uncommon with grant applications. We 20 could not use that money for anything that we had already 21 allocated money in our budget for. So, the courthouse 22 windows had already been allocated, so we came back and Tim 23 and I talked about it. And they gave us some guidelines, and 24 I made a little bit of -- while I was over there, I went 25 through it with the woman that actually will be doing the 11-23-09 46 1 approval of it. I said, "What about this, this, this, and 2 this?" She said, "That's fine." So, I came back, and we -- 3 we redid this. 4 The other thing is that it was allocated to all 5 counties and cities that didn't get funds through other 6 channels through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act 7 for this type of thing. And they sent out letters, and a lot 8 of the counties -- not a lot, but a number of the counties 9 and cities said, "We don't want to do this. We don't have 10 the infrastructure set up to monitor a grant, and we don't 11 know that we need it anyway." The money that they were 12 allocated is going to be reallocated, so it may be that we 13 will get more than $100,000. I wouldn't think we'd get a 14 whole lot more than that, but, you know, I don't have any 15 idea. There was an e-mail I noticed this morning from -- 16 related to it that you got, but I didn't have time to look it 17 up. So, we'll -- we'll just have to see how much it is. 18 But what we need is direction. The grant 19 applications supposedly were posted yesterday, and they're 20 due the 22nd of December, so we've got a pretty narrow window 21 here that we need to decide what we want to do with the 22 money. The first one is to replace the ballasts and bulbs 23 and the lights in the courtroom -- in the courthouse. All of 24 these are currently T-12 bulbs, and a T-8 bulb is a more 25 energy-efficient bulb. The estimate on this for the 11-23-09 47 1 materials is $11,438, and our maintenance people will be able 2 to do the work on that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the entire courthouse? 4 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these the 8-watt 6 fluorescent bulbs? 7 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 8 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. The second one is to replace 9 four air conditioner units on the jail. Currently, they have 10 in the budget this year to replace some, but this is the 11 additional ones that would complete the replacement of all of 12 those 1996 air conditioning units. Where's Rusty? Isn't 13 that right, 1996? Is that -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: '5. 15 MS. LAVENDER: 1995? Okay. Which we assume will 16 be more energy efficient, obviously. And it's 33,500. 17 Replacing this west basement door that wasn't included in the 18 windows project -- they actually missed one -- is only 19 $1,000. $1,000 and -- $1,020. Upgrading and repairing the 20 exterior courthouse wall and ground lighting, the security 21 lights, and the lights outside, that would be the biggest 22 item in this bunch of $69,090. That bid came from Guadalupe 23 Electric, and when I typed this this morning, I forgot to put 24 that in there. And then the other one is the one I just had 25 you add, and that's replacing the two basement air 11-23-09 48 1 conditioning units with heat pumps here at the courthouse. 2 And I don't have any idea how old those units are. Do you? 3 MR. BOLLIER: I do not. 4 MS. LAVENDER: Anybody know? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They should be with the 6 renovation done down here in '96 or '97. 7 MS. LAVENDER: '96 -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably '97, I would guess 9 would be probably right. 10 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. Anyway, that's 12,954. That 11 totals all up to $128,002 for those four and a half, however 12 we want to word it, things, which I think is a reasonable 13 amount. I just probably need to know from you which ones of 14 these things -- if we got to knock something off. Or the big 15 one -- and this is the one, you know, when I came back, I 16 thought, "Well, this will be a good idea." We can insulate 17 and reroof the -- the exhibit center, covered arena, which 18 we've been looking for a way to spend some funds out there. 19 The problem is, the bid for doing that was 204,850, and so 20 we'd have to match that one, and I don't know that we've got 21 $104,000 laying around anywhere that we'd want to do that. 22 So, this is kind of your call. It's kind of like Christmas 23 early. We just need to decide what we want to do with this 24 money so that I can fill out the allocation paperwork. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you need an answer today? 11-23-09 49 1 Is there some kind of deadline? 2 MS. LAVENDER: Yeah, we kind of need to make a 3 decision today. We could -- you could think about it and I 4 can come back after a while or whatever, but we really do, 5 'cause the applications were posted yesterday, and they got 6 to be in by the 22nd of December. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My thought is -- 8 MS. LAVENDER: I've got to be able to put that in 9 the grant application. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My thought is that you have 11 100,000. 12 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you figure out what -- 14 MS. LAVENDER: Give or take. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- how far your 100,000 will 16 go. Otherwise, if we go 128,000, we're going to have to 17 scramble out there and dot the I's and cross the T's and spit 18 and whittle to find the other 28,000. 19 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I don't know that you 21 want this Court to -- I don't want to be pushed into making 22 that kind of decision that quick. 23 MS. LAVENDER: What I'd like for you to approve is 24 up to whatever the allocation is. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can do that. 11-23-09 50 1 MS. LAVENDER: And no more. If it's 100 -- 2 100,000, it's 100,000. If it's 120, then we'll take the 120, 3 but we won't allocate more than what we're getting from the 4 grant, I wouldn't think. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be my route. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I think -- I think the 7 variable that's going to come into play is the second-chance 8 group, those that did not send in the resolutions in a timely 9 manner to participate. That money goes back into a different 10 fund, and then it becomes reallocated for those that did 11 elect to participate, and the information that I saw, looking 12 through some materials yesterday, was that they think the 13 week of December the 9th, they would know what that number 14 was going to be, or sometime hopefully shortly thereafter, 15 whatever that meant. 16 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's when we're going to take 18 a look at the second loan. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which means there's a 20 possibility that the allocation of Kerr County might be a 21 little larger. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, it will be. I have no doubt 23 that it will be. 24 MS. LAVENDER: Whether it is 28,000 or not, or 25 whether it'll be 15,000 or whatever -- I mean, it's kind of a 11-23-09 51 1 gamble here. We don't know. What I'd like for you to do is 2 just approve -- you know, we can -- we can make the best 3 decision once we find out how much the allotment is. I would 4 think it would be easier for us to pay for a basement door 5 than it would be for any of these other things out of -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just approve whatever the 7 number is that comes in, and then -- 8 MS. LAVENDER: And approve these projects, is what 9 -- yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have Tim prioritize the 11 projects. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, for example, would 13 replacement of the air conditioners with heat pumps serve us 14 better over the long-term in terms of energy reduction, as 15 opposed to replacing the ballasts, which could be ongoing 16 through the Maintenance Department? 17 MS. LAVENDER: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be a better 19 option, for example? 20 MS. LAVENDER: So, if we prioritize them and put 21 the ballasts at the bottom of the deal? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get it to where it's real. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do the capital items, not the 24 maintenance items. 25 MS. LAVENDER: The ballasts and the door, I would 11-23-09 52 1 think, would be at the bottom of the list, and these other 2 things would be -- the larger amounts would be at the top of 3 the list. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, what is the -- the upgrade 5 of the exterior wall and the exterior lighting? 6 MR. BOLLIER: That's outside, Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know what "exterior" means. 8 MR. BOLLIER: Sir? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said I know what "exterior" 10 means. 11 MR. BOLLIER: Let me read it, Commissioner. 12 MS. HYDE: Rewind. 13 MR. BOLLIER: Rewind. (Laughter.) 14 MS. LAVENDER: It would actually replace the little 15 decorative lights that are around the courthouse. 16 MR. BOLLIER: Oh. You know, like our -- 17 MS. LAVENDER: And the security lights that are on 18 the upside of the outside. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are more the ones on the 20 building, not the ones out in the trees? 21 MR. BOLLIER: They're included. The ones on the 22 outside, the green light posts, as I call them, I'd like to 23 replace those. And they'll go with the halogen bulbs, and 24 what we have in there is all run off of 110 or '20 -- I think 25 it's 110 or 160. And we can save money out there. And we'd 11-23-09 53 1 like -- the ones that are on the wall are the same thing. 2 But we can come back with a halogen bulb with a brighter 3 light that will be more secure; it will light up the area 4 around the courthouse better. We'll have a more secure area. 5 When -- you know, like when somebody comes up at night, where 6 they can see. And they're -- they can do this a million 7 ways. You know, like, the light posts they bring in, they 8 can match what's out there on the light post on the side of 9 the building with a fixture of some sort. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not talking about 11 replacing the light posts -- those green posts, are you? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You are? 14 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, I am. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what -- put what there? 16 MR. BOLLIER: Sir? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And replace it with what? 18 MR. BOLLIER: With another light post. Put new 19 light posts out there. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you checked that with 21 the City of Kerrville? 22 MR. BOLLIER: I have not. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do not -- what is it you 24 don't like about the green light posts? 25 MR. BOLLIER: It's nothing I don't like about them, 11-23-09 54 1 sir. I'm just trying to upgrade them. I mean, like, around 2 the bottom of them are rusted. They're deteriorating, in 3 other words, so I'm just trying -- and if you'll go out there 4 and look at some of them, there are some of them that are 5 leaning. I can't lean them back and put them in proper 6 position and get them level without jerking the wires loose 7 or digging up a whole lot of ditches to pull up the -- the 8 wire that's in the ditch. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just opened a can of worms. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're really hurting my 11 feelings. Okay. 12 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I didn't mean 13 to, believe me. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you done any calculation, 15 or do you have any idea as to which one of these will save 16 the most dollars? 17 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir, I have not. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That would seem to be the -- the 19 methodology for the priority, it would seem. 20 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be. 22 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. I would think that -- I 23 mean, the jail -- the air conditioners on top of the jail 24 would -- that's one of my number-one priorities right there. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11-23-09 55 1 MR. BOLLIER: And then my two air conditioners here 2 at the courthouse, that's very high on my priority list. The 3 basement door down in the bottom, that's -- I'm putting that 4 up kind of high on my priority list, just because, you know, 5 it's just like the other old windows and stuff, like, here at 6 the courthouse that leaks air and stuff, and I think that 7 would -- that's up there. Like, the lights on the outside, I 8 mean, that's something we can go and replace the domes on top 9 of them out there, and replace the insides of those lights 10 and come up saving money. But I'm just scared that some of 11 those light posts that are out there, they're rusted at the 12 bottom. I just don't want them to fall on somebody, and then 13 it becomes -- then it becomes more than a priority; it's 14 something that has to be done. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, okay. 16 MR. BOLLIER: I'm just -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tim may want to look at doing 18 that boiler system at the jail. 19 MR. BOLLIER: The jail? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On all this, too. That's a 21 major system; that's mid-90's, rusting out. I'm sure energy 22 efficient would help with that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably would. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, just those kind of things 25 may need to be looked at. 11-23-09 56 1 MR. TROLINGER: And, Sheriff, hadn't you asked for 2 a generator out there to back up the computer room? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I haven't. 4 (Multiple people speaking.) 5 THE REPORTER: One at a time, please. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whoa, it's Christmas. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Santa Claus is waiting. 8 MS. LAVENDER: I was going to say Santa Claus has 9 been here. 10 MR. BOLLIER: I mean, you want -- you know, there's 11 a lot of things that I could go and put on this list. I was 12 just trying to -- to prioritize and put the main things on 13 here that -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rosa? 15 MR. BOLLIER: To help Ms. Lavender. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have to come in at 17 100,000, or can we put a wish list on it that may be a little 18 greater than 100,000? 19 MS. LAVENDER: I think the wish list a little bit 20 greater than 100,000 is fine. I don't think that's a 21 problem. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think we're going to get 23 more than 100. I just don't know how much more. 24 MS. LAVENDER: And until I see the application, I'm 25 not sure how far into the application you've got to get 11-23-09 57 1 before you've got to list these. But I know that in most 2 applications, you're going to have to put a budget in and 3 what you're going to do and all that kind of stuff pretty 4 early in the deal, and I don't want to get down to December 5 the 21st and try to be doing this grant application. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. So, you want us to -- 7 did you look at a boiler? I mean, a boiler seems like a 8 pretty good idea. 9 MR. BOLLIER: I can have that done pretty quick. 10 MS. LAVENDER: We'll check that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd go -- I'll make a motion to 12 include Items 1, 2, 3, 4 and 4.5, 4.5 being the basement, A, 13 C, and add the boiler at the jail. 14 MS. LAVENDER: We'll come back to you at the next 15 Commissioners' meeting and kind of give you a little bit of 16 update on where we are with this. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And a prioritization, hopefully. 18 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're approving 22 authorizing you to accept whatever amount of money's coming 23 in? 24 MS. LAVENDER: We've already done that. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, by resolution. 11-23-09 58 1 MS. LAVENDER: We did that last month. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 MS. LAVENDER: Notice of intent. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Notice of participation in the SECO 5 grant. We have a motion here. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Question or 8 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 9 signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Thank you. We'll 14 move to our first 10 o'clock item; consider, discuss, take 15 appropriate action to open, read, and award the proposal for 16 a used 66-inch single drum vibratory compactor. I assume 17 that the award will not be done immediately? We'll probably 18 have it come back. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as we don't have any 20 late bids today. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: No, we don't have any late bids, far 22 as I know. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do you have there? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four -- five -- four. 25 (Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.) 11-23-09 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The first one is from Holt CAT. 2 Next one is from Closner Equipment Company out there in 3 Schertz. Next one is from Romco equipment; they're located 4 in San Antonio. And the fourth is from RDO Equipment in New 5 Braunfels, Texas. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept all bids and 7 refer them to the Road and Bridge Administrator for 8 evaluation. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to accept 11 all the bids, refer them to Road and Bridge administration 12 for evaluation and recommendation. Question or discussion on 13 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 14 your right hand. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you saying they can come 16 back later in the morning? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 18 by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. They'll 23 bring that back shortly. We have a second 10 o'clock item 24 listed, Item 11. Presentation for an on-site shredding 25 service available to any department in the courthouse and/or 11-23-09 60 1 annex facility. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 2 action and authorize County Judge to sign contract pending 3 approval of County Attorney, with funding to be from Records 4 Preservation. Boy, she knows how to make an agenda item come 5 out by putting the funding source there. Ms. Uecker? 6 MS. UECKER: This came from a discussion that the 7 County Clerk and the Tax Assessor and myself had regarding 8 the necessity to -- the need to shred certain documents that 9 are ready to be shredded, but are at some point confidential, 10 or were confidential. 11 (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.) 12 MS. UECKER: What -- what we came up with was the 13 fact that we spend valuable staff time shredding documents by 14 running them through -- you know, we have some pretty good 15 shredders in the courthouse, but it still takes staff time. 16 And I am currently using a service out of San Antonio to 17 shred, which has, you know, saved that staff time, but you 18 still have to get it there. So, we discussed and looked for 19 a company that does the on-site shredding, and have come up 20 with one that I think would be amenable to everybody. And 21 this includes every court -- every office in the courthouse, 22 including the jail, JDC, everybody. And I think that we can 23 all save some valuable staff time and some money doing this. 24 So, I've asked Kent Bowers to come and do a presentation to 25 you from a company called Shred-It. And Mr. Bowers actually, 11-23-09 61 1 I think, lives here? 2 MR. BOWERS: That's correct. 3 MS. UECKER: Which makes it even better. And if 4 you look at him, those of you that remember Dr. Bowers will 5 know that this is Dr. Bowers' son. So, I will turn it over 6 to Kent. 7 MR. BOWERS: Good morning. I'm going to just bring 8 in a console out here to show you a little bit -- we'd like 9 to give a presentation. 10 MS. UECKER: Want me to get it? 11 MR. BOWERS: I can do that. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MR. BOWERS: Well, good morning. My name's Kent 14 Bowers. I'm with Shred-It out of San Antonio, Texas. We are 15 the world's largest on-site document shredding company. We 16 were founded in 1988, and have 140 locations throughout the 17 U.S. and world, and actually are in 14 different countries. 18 Real briefly, I was going to just discuss a little bit about 19 what these consoles are. They hold roughly three standard 20 banker's boxes of material, so if you can imagine a copy size 21 paper box, actually, they hold three and a quarter, but 22 roughly somewhere in the neighborhood of between 100 and 23 125 pounds of -- of paper. That can be manila folders with 24 staples, butterfly clips, any of that information. Instead 25 of going into the shredder, it's put in this receptacle, and 11-23-09 62 1 this receptacle is locked. And inside, you can see that 2 there's a nylon bag. And when we service accounts, we would 3 come in and follow whatever procedures y'all would have. If 4 we need to have an officer or someone who's dedicated, you 5 know, to taking us through the different parts of the 6 courthouse. 7 We unload this, and then we take this out to our 8 truck. I have a little bit of the -- the pictures here, but, 9 unfortunately, I don't have a -- a slide show for it here. 10 But all of our material is done on-site. So, what we do is 11 we have our -- our truck here, and so we park where we 12 would -- you know, wherever we're allowed to park, and then 13 pull the bags or any of the confidential material that you 14 have where it is shredded here. On the truck itself, there's 15 a -- a glass or a wire cage, depending on what the weather 16 is, where we close that and shred all that material. Here is 17 a picture of some of that where you can leave your butterfly 18 clips, your staples, bradded material, any of that, that 19 would be used in the day-to-day operations here. The 20 material itself is, like I mentioned, shredded on-site. The 21 truck holds 9,000 pounds of material. We have numerous 22 accounts here throughout the hill country. Also, like, for 23 example, the -- the V.A. Hospital here is a client of ours 24 where we do all of the V.A. Hospital systems for Texas out of 25 our region. Our region here is -- I'm out of San Antonio, 11-23-09 63 1 but we cover the hill country, south Texas, and -- and the 2 Rio Grande Valley. Each time that we're here on-site when we 3 shred, we would leave a certificate of destruction, and that 4 is saying that we shred all material on site. And that would 5 be a legal document saying that this was done on this date 6 and this time. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And is it -- the amount of 8 poundage, would that be included in that document? 9 MR. BOWERS: Well, what I -- what I proposed -- and 10 it depends on what your needs are here for the courthouse, 11 itself, but just to give you an idea of a figure, I'm not 12 sure which departments, you know, who all would have a need 13 for one in their specific department, but we have -- on there 14 it states 10 -- 10 consoles, which would be the equivalent of 15 30 standard banker boxes of material. And I went ahead and 16 put on there on a 4-week period. That typically seems to be 17 the most common period of time, you know, for that when we 18 look at other places. Now, some -- some police departments 19 in some larger cities require faster -- maybe a weekly type 20 service. But for Kerrville, we cover Kerrville every four 21 weeks. So, for example, I mentioned that the V.A. Hospital, 22 they're on a 4-week type service. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the shredding take 24 place in that machine inside, or do you do it in your truck? 25 MR. BOWERS: This is strictly a locked container, 11-23-09 64 1 and so we take the material on a dolly out to the -- to 2 wherever our truck is parked here on the property, and all 3 that material is shredded here. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, you and I have had a 6 discussion previously about some of the steps that you had 7 been going through. I think initially, we had the discussion 8 dealing -- dealing with micro-funding and so forth. And your 9 staff people had to go do it and remove all the paper clips, 10 all the staples, all of that sort of thing, and the same is 11 true if we're going to shred it here, like we've been doing 12 from various departments down in the lower level on-site. We 13 have to remove all of those fasteners of various types. 14 MS. UECKER: Absolutely. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Or it jams up our machine. 16 MS. UECKER: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Your machine just chews all that up, 18 huh? 19 MR. BOWERS: Yes, sir. We actually, on occasion, 20 are asked to do license plates for car dealerships, so we can 21 run 300, 400 plates at a time with that. 22 MS. UECKER: Wow. 23 MR. BOWERS: It's definitely not one of those where 24 you wear a tie to work. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't get close to it. 11-23-09 65 1 MR. BOWERS: If you're shredding. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't do this at home, right? 3 MR. BOWERS: That's correct. 4 MS. UECKER: Kent, you said something about 10 5 boxes, right? Can we have -- I mean, the Sheriff has 6 indicated he'd probably use 10 out at the jail. And can we 7 get more? 8 MR. BOWERS: Well, certainly. It's sort of a thing 9 -- I know y'all would need to know on the allocation of funds 10 and things like that, but what I proposed on one of those, 11 just as a basic idea, was 10 -- 10 consoles at $150, with 12 each other console being an additional 10 for that. Also, I 13 know you'd mentioned that on occasion, y'all had some 14 shredding that -- or a truck that was coming to take your 15 shredded material, and in this case, they were transporting 16 it to another location. Ours would actually be shredded here 17 on-site, and so we can also address those issues of per-box 18 based on that size. A typical bag here holds three banker's 19 boxes, so we can either do that by the bag or -- or by a 20 specific box. 21 MS. UECKER: He and I also visited about the cost 22 that I was paying right now to shred a -- you know, one 23 banker's box full of documents packed that goes to San 24 Antonio. And, of course, the fear is, what if you have an 25 accident between here and San Antonio and that stuff flies 11-23-09 66 1 everywhere? So, here it's shredded before it leaves the 2 courthouse. And he told me that the cost would be about the 3 same as -- that I'm paying right now, which is like $5 a box. 4 And we are going to have some that are already boxed up that 5 are not going to be there. I know the Sheriff's going to 6 have some; I've already got some ready to go. So, we think 7 that the costs will be comparable, plus we don't have to get 8 them to San Antonio and do all the removing of all the stuff. 9 So -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned the Sheriff needs 10 11 receptacles out there at your place? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At this -- real quick, what we 13 had done, if you recall, back in the -- the file room, we 14 have just the inmate files that we go back and forth. That's 15 a little over 100 file cabinets. In fact, to get -- and not 16 drawers, five-drawer file cabinets; it's over 100. And now 17 that Odyssey is where it is, we are going in and -- and 18 scanning all that information into the system, so we're 19 gradually emptying that out. All that has to be shredded. 20 I've got old offense reports in one room back there, back 21 from Paul Fields' days when he was Sheriff, that never needed 22 to be there. We have a full room of shredded documents, or 23 things that need to be, and then on the ongoing basis, just 24 the daily ongoing stuff, I have right now about five 25 shredding machines at the office that we use, okay? And so, 11-23-09 67 1 yeah, it's a -- it's a constant deal out there on paperwork. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I can understand where, 3 initially, with this overload that you've got with all those 4 old records, initially -- I guess my point is, I don't -- I 5 think we can work our way into this thing. I don't want to 6 commit to a huge number, even though we might, if we were to 7 gather everything up that had a need to be shredded within 8 the next two weeks, we may just, you know, put that truck on 9 a couple of runs a week. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On an ongoing, it just depends 11 on how often they come up with their truck that they're going 12 to empty it. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's what we need to look 14 at, plus to -- to phase -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you know, you work your back 17 records in, and we can work into this thing. If we need 18 more, well, they can provide more, and I think the contract 19 would be expandable, wouldn't it? 20 MR. BOWERS: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 MR. BOWERS: But I would say that the idea behind 23 this is to take care of your everyday type material, whether 24 it's issuing some of the passport information or certain 25 documents that come in that you would normally take to the 11-23-09 68 1 in-house -- to your in-house shredder. This alleviates the 2 time of doing that, just going -- and we try and place that 3 in the high-traffic areas. In regards to material from 4 Sheriff Paul Fields' day, we do shred retention of materials, 5 so that these boxes -- we don't necessarily have to have a 6 box there strictly for that. 'Cause we go in and we can -- 7 we can go to storages, you know, where you do off-site 8 storage access where we shred. So, there's not -- you don't 9 necessarily have to have a box for that, 'cause we can shred 10 all that material. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 MR. BOWERS: And also, as you mentioned, whether it 13 be 10 or 5 or 15, we can always work into that, because it's 14 a -- it's always hard to come into a new situation and know 15 exactly how much paper you're producing. We can go around 16 and ask how many copy paper boxes are used or how much paper 17 is used, but a lot of that may be for other sources that are 18 nonconfidential, certain mail-outs and things like that. 19 MS. UECKER: As a matter of fact, most of my stuff 20 will probably be in banker's boxes. Like he says, we'll have 21 one of these in the office where, for the everyday 22 passport -- you know, that kind of stuff that's not already 23 boxed up and ready to go. And, you know, based on what I've 24 seen in the basement of the courthouse storage, I mean, we'll 25 -- we'll keep them pretty busy for a while. 'Cause I -- you 11-23-09 69 1 know, I've looked down there, and I think there's -- as the 2 maintenance -- Tim had sent out an e-mail one time saying, 3 you know, we need to reorganize and go through there and see 4 what needs to be kept and what doesn't, because it's to the 5 point of almost being a fire hazard down there if anything 6 should happen. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the key is, how often 8 are they going to come? The key to how many boxes you need. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The current schedule is every four 10 weeks. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, once a month? 12 MR. BOWERS: Currently, every four weeks. 13 Actually, two days out of the month, so usually -- currently, 14 it's on a Thursday and a Friday. 15 MS. UECKER: So, you'll be here two days? 16 MR. BOWERS: Yes. We have approximately about 50 17 -- 51 accounts that we service from. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, as that grows, your 19 frequency will be greater. 20 MR. BOWERS: Well, sure. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: If the need demands, you're going to 22 be here. 23 MR. BOWERS: Absolutely, yes, sir. For example, we 24 service currently right now the San Antonio Police Department 25 twice a week. We have some locations that have 200 -- 200 to 11-23-09 70 1 250 of these that we service weekly. So, it really depends 2 on what the needs are. It seems like, typically, for 3 courthouses and entities like that, that a four-week period 4 once you're on a schedule would probably work, and then with 5 maybe twice a year where you have a shred of documents that 6 are in retention. And that can always be scheduled, or we 7 can always break that to come to do 300, 200 boxes, something 8 like that. 9 MS. UECKER: I don't think that we can count on 10 getting it -- you know, everything that we have done that's 11 been back there in the first trip. But I think we can work 12 toward that goal, and then get it to where, you know, once a 13 month would -- will probably be sufficient. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean -- make sure I 15 understand. So, you come once a month to take the daily 16 stuff, and all of the boxes that are put together, we just 17 put down in our storage, and you -- and we schedule a time 18 for you to come and do all that? 19 MR. BOWERS: Correct, yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Routinely, the truck comes 21 to the courthouse for -- for the shredding of the material 22 that you've gathered here. Will it also go to the Sheriff's 23 Department, or will we be bringing that material here for 24 shredding? 25 MR. BOWERS: Well, what we -- it would depend, but 11-23-09 71 1 typically, we have it based on a stop -- a minimum per stop. 2 So, for example, if we went to the Sheriff's Department, that 3 would have a little bit different pricing, depending on the 4 number of consoles where we have a minimum -- a minimum stop. 5 Or if you have an annex or another location, we would start 6 and go out to those if -- so each one would be a -- would be 7 a separate entity. 8 MS. UECKER: Would that require a different 9 contract? 10 MR. BOWERS: We would probably list that, but we 11 could certainly have a master copy, say Kerr County 12 Courthouse or however -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A master agreement with 14 Kerr County, which includes the Sheriff's Department? 15 MR. BOWERS: Correct, yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your minimum number of 17 consoles per location? 18 MR. BOWERS: Our minimum is typically -- I mean, 19 from one to two. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. BOWERS: But it just varies, you know, 22 depending on the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Just the number of these consoles is 24 slightly higher, the price is, until you -- 25 MR. BOWERS: Sure. 11-23-09 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- get to that break point? 2 MR. BOWERS: I would say that between one and two 3 is typically around $50. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MR. BOWERS: And sometimes that depends on -- on 6 the usage. For example, if -- I think I noted something on 7 the annex, just to put something in there, was at $50. Well, 8 if a place doesn't go as often, we can do the service every 9 eight weeks. So, we service at one, two, four, and eight 10 weeks for the location. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our annex is the same as the 12 courthouse. You're talking about that, right? Same as the 13 courthouse. It's just -- 14 MS. PIEPER: No, the annex in Ingram. 15 MR. BOWERS: I think I meant Ingram. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, the Ingram annex. 17 MR. BOWERS: I was thinking about the Ingram annex, 18 if they needed something like that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would be -- wouldn't it 20 make sense to get a couple of extra boxes that the -- that 21 can be placed, like, at the Sheriff's office so that, you 22 know, he could -- rather than schedule a retention -- I mean, 23 put stuff in the retention and send a special truck up just 24 every week, the Sheriff fills up two consoles, or every -- I 25 mean, every month fills up two or three consoles. He has so 11-23-09 73 1 much paper out there, he's going to -- if you -- that way he 2 can slowly work it through, and then eliminate the cost of 3 having the truck come just for a special trip. 4 MS. UECKER: Well, and that would just be gradually 5 getting rid of as much as you can and just chipping away at 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But he's first going to have to 9 gauge how much he's going to have in the regular -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the regular run period. If 12 he's filling up his consoles normally with just his 13 day-to-day activities, it's not going to do him much good to 14 try and chip away one file -- one file drawer, maybe two file 15 drawers every four weeks. He's going to be forever getting 16 there. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If -- if they're talking about 18 once a month, you know, every four weeks, I would -- I would 19 say just on day-to-day stuff, we'd have to have a minimum 20 of -- starting out, to see where it would go, of four. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Of four consoles? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of four consoles for the 23 Sheriff's Office and the jail. That's just on day-to-day 24 stuff. That's coming once every four weeks. 25 MR. BOWERS: Something I didn't mention was that a 11-23-09 74 1 copy size paper box takes typically two minutes for us to 2 shred, so that we -- we're able, within an hour's time, to do 3 somewhere 30 to -- 35 to 40, depending on -- on the thickness 4 of paper and things like that. So, if needed, we could 5 certainly go out and count the number of boxes and give an 6 estimate and get those done first. So, in a -- so that you 7 don't always have the -- what happens whenever we place these 8 in a location, typically, everyone has their hidden box of 9 material somewhere, and so immediately, they fill up. So, 10 what we try and do a lot of times is maybe purge or have an 11 idea of what you'd be up against for the number of boxes, and 12 be able to give that price, and then also put in our system 13 as we go along once that's shredded. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only your people have keys 15 to open these consoles; is that correct? 16 MR. BOWERS: We would allow you -- we would issue 17 keys to anyone that is allowed to have that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I guess what I'm 19 leading up to, if you had one location or two location 20 consoles and they filled up quickly before your visit each 21 four weeks, can we put another blue bag in there and do -- 22 MR. BOWERS: Yes, and that's another thing that we 23 have -- we could leave that. If someone's appointed -- or 24 whoever has the ability to do that, if there's a locked 25 storage area, you can move those bags to an area and put new 11-23-09 75 1 bags in so that when -- we do that in a lot of locations, 2 certain law enforcement agencies where we have to go through, 3 or some of the prison systems we have. Sometimes they gather 4 the material, or the material is put in one location, where 5 you already have that. So, when we go and there's 20 bags in 6 one room -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. That's what I was 8 getting at. Okay. 9 MR. BOWERS: And that typically works very well, 10 also. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds like Mr. Tim's got a 12 new job. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You were thinking the same thing I 14 was, Commissioner. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the present 16 contract with the group in San Antonio? Do you have a 17 contract with them? 18 MS. UECKER: No. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 20 MS. UECKER: They will continue to do my imaging, 21 but they were kind of just doing the shredding as a favor to 22 me, because I needed -- you know, I needed to get rid of that 23 stuff and I didn't want to pay somebody, you know, $9 an hour 24 to sit there shredding. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's where the savings is, 11-23-09 76 1 is in the employees' time, where you don't have to feed a 2 shredder, that you have to get all of the fasteners out and 3 do that nonsense. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge -- do I understand 5 your agenda item correctly, Madam Clerk, that your Records 6 Preservation fund's going to pay for all of this, including 7 the Sheriff? 8 MS. UECKER: Well -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's wonderful, 10 if the answer is yes. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't push the issue, 12 Commissioner. (Laughter.) Just let her do it. 13 MS. UECKER: Well, I feel like it will. I mean, 14 we'll work with the Auditor and see, you know, what's in 15 there currently. And, of course, what I'm paying right now 16 for that service is coming out of there to start with. So -- 17 and I think probably -- you know, and if we take it out of 18 that -- the big fund, which is the county Records 19 Preservation fund, I think that's probably the one with the 20 most money in it, and I feel sure that that's probably -- 21 probably a good way to spend that money. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the plan. 23 MS. UECKER: Now -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to make a 25 motion? 11-23-09 77 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I will make a motion 2 that we authorize the County Judge to sign a contract for 3 shredding services with the Shred-It company out of San 4 Antonio, and the funding to come from the District Clerk's 5 Records Preservation -- 6 MS. UECKER: No. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- fund. No? 8 MS. UECKER: It's the county-wide. The money comes 9 from the -- the money that goes into that fund comes from the 10 County Clerk's office and my office. But that particular 11 fund -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah? 13 MS. UECKER: There are now, I think, five records 14 preservation funds. That was the very first one. That one 15 is for use for the entire county. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever fund's appropriate 17 for funds for this. (Laughter.) 18 MS. UECKER: Because I have my own. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I second. That's a second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And, Commissioner, your motion is 21 subject to the County Attorney's approval? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it is. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 11-23-09 78 1 indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Now, exactly which 3 -- what are we doing of the four -- or the three proposals 4 that are in here? What are we -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say whatever's deemed 6 necessary by the department -- affected departments, and 7 through Ms. Uecker. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's going -- there's going to 9 necessarily have to be some sort of usage determination. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And the various departments are 12 going to work with Mr. Bowers to determine what their normal 13 usage is, what the flow of paperwork is through the office, 14 insofar as the specifics of the contract, the addendum or 15 whatever it may be as to the use and the break points. 16 But -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it will be helpful to 18 have that done before we enter into the agreement, because it 19 may be -- you know, like on this here, it's talking about 20 going out to the annex. Is that much paper generated at the 21 annex that we're not already doing -- I mean, it may be more 22 economical to bring that paper here. I mean, I don't -- 23 MS. UECKER: Of course, the annex is J.P. 4. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MS. UECKER: And the Tax Assessor/Collector's 11-23-09 79 1 office. And I think probably -- Kent, you probably need to 2 visit with every department and just let each department know 3 that if they want to participate, that they need to get with 4 him and give them an estimate of how much paper we're talking 5 about here. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me out at the annex, 7 for example, we may put a receptacle out there, but then have 8 Tim's people maybe bring the bag up here for -- 9 MR. BOWERS: Once a month. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for destruction purposes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm talking about. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Lots of variables. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to get an idea how 14 much we're going to spend just before we say go do all this, 15 and get an idea what it' going to cost. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do these estimates of 17 cost come from that are in there? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's talking about going 19 out to the annex. Like the Judge said, it may be more 20 economical for Maintenance, on their trips, whatever the 21 schedule is, to bring the bags back. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We just don't know. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't know yet. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't allow that to happen. 25 Just instruct Tim to do that. 11-23-09 80 1 MR. BOWERS: I think these estimates were just 2 based on 10 consoles at one location, four consoles at one 3 location, with each additional console being $10, two 4 consoles at one. So, -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're kind of arbitrary. 6 MR. BOWERS: -- just sort of -- just an idea out 7 there, not -- not necessarily final. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: He's necessarily going to have to 9 put together some -- some mechanics here after talking to the 10 various departments and say, "Based on what I hear in each, 11 you need so many here, so many there. If we stop here, we 12 stop there every four weeks, here's what it's going to run." 13 And he's going to run up those numbers. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't we want to know the 15 numbers before we approve the contract? 16 MS. BAILEY: My preference would be that we bring 17 back the contract for you all to look at and make a decision, 18 so that I'm not making a policy decision for you, or Linda's 19 not making a decision. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the concept. I'd just 23 like -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to know how much we're going 11-23-09 81 1 to be spending. 2 MS. UECKER: Can do you that? 3 MR. BOWERS: Yes. 4 MS. UECKER: Can you visit? What the Court could 5 do is direct the departments -- or I can contact all of them 6 to find out who wants to participate. I can get that, make a 7 list, get it to Kent, and he can come back then and visit 8 with all of those departments and get an estimate of -- about 9 what we're looking at. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me amend the motion -- 11 or withdraw the original motion and substitute a motion that 12 we authorize the District Clerk to gather the information for 13 this project and work with the Shred-It company to prepare a 14 contract that reflects our volumes and bring it back to the 15 Court for approval. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 18 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Quickly, our 24 10:30 item, Number 15, to consider, discuss, take appropriate 25 action to award the new county courthouse telephone system 11-23-09 82 1 contract, authorize County Judge to sign same. Based upon 2 the action the Court took on Item Number 17 on the agenda, it 3 occurs to me that we're not in a position to take any formal 4 action with regard to Item 15; is that correct? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way I understand 6 it, Judge. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Judge Tinley, I do have responses 8 from all the bidders. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, you do? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Are they in writing? 12 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Communications are 15 wonderful. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to have a 17 little drink at break time? This calls for a celebration. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you want? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glass of wine, at least. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go back to -- firstly 21 to Item Number 1; consider, discuss, take appropriate action 22 to accept late bid from Windstream Communications for a 23 telephone system proposal. The action the Court took was to 24 consider the Windstream bid if, and only if, the other 25 bidders who submitted timely bids make no objection, and 11-23-09 83 1 indicated that in writing, as I recall. What do we have, 2 Mr. Trolinger? 3 MR. TROLINGER: Well, Judge Tinley, I spoke with 4 the acting County Attorney at the break momentarily, and I do 5 have two responses in writing from two of the bidders. The 6 first is Hill Country Telephone, and in writing, they state 7 that "Hill Country Telecommunications objects to the 8 acceptance or consideration of any and all proposals that 9 were not received by the deadline required by the RFP for the 10 Kerr County telecommunications system." 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Takes care of that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Solved that problem. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did the other -- you said you 15 have two? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. The other was Computer Plus. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they're -- 18 MR. TROLINGER: And there's a paragraph that, in 19 essence, to summarize, says it's not fair to accept a late 20 bid. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're still on Item Number 1 22 there. Do I hear a motion with respect to the Court's action 23 on Agenda Item Number 1 considering the late bid of 24 Windstream Communications? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we -- what, we 11-23-09 84 1 reject? -- reject the bid from Windstream Communications, 2 based on the -- is it "reject"? Is that the correct word? 3 Based on the other companies' -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Objection. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- objection. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 8 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. That brings us 14 to -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lunch? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Item 15, scheduled for 10:30. We 17 need to get our health -- our health benefits proposals in. 18 Mr. Malek is here, and he's running on a short schedule this 19 morning, so would it be possible to bring that back after the 20 break? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to take about a 10-, 23 15-minute break. We're going to go to the health, and then 24 we'll come back to you. 25 (Recess taken from 10:46 a.m. to 11:03 a.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 11-23-09 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 2 we might, from our mid-morning recess, and we will go to Item 3 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 4 various employee health benefit issues and adoption of 2010 5 Kerr County employee health benefits plan and/or plan 6 amendments. Ms. Hyde? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. I sent y'all two things last 8 week, and Jody helped us out quite a bit, 'cause we were in 9 open enrollment. One was on the GASB and the ramifications 10 of GASB towards the future, but also regarding our Kerr 11 County health care plan. Talked to Commissioner Baldwin, and 12 I wanted to thank him for asking some good questions. Talked 13 to the Auditor, and the financial perspective audit review 14 will probably be February, before the GASB information is 15 completely finished. The suggestions on possible options to 16 address GASB 45, if you notice, there are five suggestions. 17 The fifth suggestion is my recommendation; Kerr County 18 continues with current retiree health insurance at the 19 current subsidized rate or nonsubsidized rate and continues 20 the current employees' access to retiree health insurance at 21 a subsidized rate or nonsubsidized rate. And my 22 recommendation for that is so that we don't box ourselves 23 into a corner, we can modify and change the plan as needed, 24 or at the Court's direction. But these other options are -- 25 are options for your consideration. 11-23-09 86 1 If you look on the second page, possible action 2 plan, y'all are already doing the possible action plan. 3 These are not new. Slowly reducing or eliminating the 4 subsidy for retiree health insurance for employees beginning 5 January 1, 2010. It's been being done since 1996. You 6 started out with 105 for both retiree and spouse, and then in 7 2006 we started updating those plans little by little 8 increments. It reduces that GASB liability, it allows Kerr 9 County to continue to offer retiree health care insurance, 10 and it treats retirees and active employees both 11 consistently. So, we're already doing those things. I'm 12 going to cut it -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. So, your 14 recommendation is basically the -- one, two, three, four -- 15 fifth bullet under H.R. suggestions? 16 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. Takes care of the 18 attack on the old boogers. 19 MS. HYDE: And, you know -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, let me ask you 21 something, now. So, you're -- you're recommending the fifth 22 bullet? 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the -- on your 25 suggestions? 11-23-09 87 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then over on the -- on 3 Page 2, possible action plan, to slowly reduce or eliminate 4 the subsidy for retired -- now, so you're recommending that 5 we freeze everything at where it is today? 6 MS. HYDE: That's not what that says, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm asking you a question. 8 MS. HYDE: No, I am not saying we freeze it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What the hell are you 10 saying? 11 MS. HYDE: What I'm saying is we leave ourselves an 12 out with what our subsidy or nonsubsidy rates are. We have 13 continued to increase that subsidy. When I started here, it 14 was $105 for the retiree, 105 for their spouse, and 105 for 15 dependent or dependents. We've modified that each year based 16 on what the Court has decided. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Modified it down? 18 MS. HARGIS: Up. 19 MS. HYDE: Well, when you say "down," you mean down 20 as in increasing? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Slowly reduce. 22 MS. HYDE: Slowly reduce our liability. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Down. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, we -- the premium that we ask 25 them to pay is a little higher, so it's reducing our 11-23-09 88 1 liability. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I'm just concerned 3 about what the County's paying. 4 MS. HARGIS: Right. Well, the -- the overall 5 liability that we're going to have is going to be huge, and I 6 really would like for y'all to take this into consideration 7 and wait to even make a firm decision. And, like she said, 8 keeping the door open to review this annually is what you're 9 going to need to do, because it may come to a point where you 10 can't fund it. And the problem with GASB-45 is, it's a 11 liability in the future, so they don't look at just what 12 you're paying today. 13 MS. HYDE: That's right. 14 MS. HARGIS: They're going to give you something 15 that says you're going to have to pay something out in the 16 next 30 years. It's going to be a huge number. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Auditor, may I get my 18 question answered before you launch into all that? 19 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. So, we have been 21 slowly reducing our con -- the County's contribution to the 22 retirees? 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 24 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And your -- 11-23-09 89 1 MS. HYDE: I understand what he's asking. Yes, 2 sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And so your 4 suggestion is -- is to continue with the current retiree 5 health insurance at a current subsidized rate or non -- now, 6 how does that -- how does that deal with this one over here? 7 MS. HYDE: Because what we've done each year is 8 we've reduced the County's portion that they've paid. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you recommending that we 10 continue reducing -- 11 MS. HYDE: As needed. That's why it leaves you the 12 option for the subsidized rate or nonsubsidized rate. It's 13 the direction of the Court. But I'm suggesting we leave 14 ourselves an out and not say, boom, this is it; this is the 15 line in the sand, until you know what the liability and the 16 risk is. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And so -- and we'll 18 know the liability and risk when she presents us with the 19 GASB program? 20 MS. HARGIS: When the actuarial accountant that we 21 hired, our auditor, finishes that audit. Then they'll tell 22 us what our -- what they feel our liability's going to be 23 based on our population. Not just who's going to retire in 24 the next five years, but our total population of 250 25 employees will be looked at to show you what your liability 11-23-09 90 1 for the future may be. Now, what happens at that point is 2 that you're going to have to decide whether you want to fund 3 it on an annual basis, whether you want to fund it as you go 4 along. But it may be so large that we might be required to 5 fund some of it, and that's where the cost comes in. It's 6 like the city of Houston, for instance, because -- I only use 7 them as an example -- their retirement liability is higher 8 than it -- than it's going to take to run the city, and it 9 would put them into debt. So, some people have actually gone 10 out and purchased bonds -- and I am not recommending that to 11 you -- because the liability is so high. So, that -- by 12 doing what Eva is asking -- or recommending, it allows you 13 the opportunity to look at that liability on an annual basis. 14 And if we can't continue to fund it, then we have to stop at 15 some point. Because we want to give everyone the most that 16 we can, but at some point in time, we don't want to raise 17 taxes either to do these kind of things. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could -- we could reduce 19 your personnel in your office some to help pay for it. 20 MS. HARGIS: That's right, Buster. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm serious, now. 22 There's other ways to do it other than just cutting the 23 retirees off. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, if you have a hundred -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're talking dollars and 11-23-09 91 1 cents here, right? 2 MS. HARGIS: I don't even think that if you laid 3 off a lot of people -- this liability is going to be huge. 4 It's going to be in the millions. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality is -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fear factor's got me going. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality is, we've been 8 dealing with contingent liability for health care and for 9 pensions for decades. 10 MS. HARGIS: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only thing that you're 12 coming to us with today is the potential that the GASB rules 13 are going to change how you handle that contingent liability. 14 That's all. 15 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it is. I'm not 17 demeaning or minimizing it, but, you know, let's not be 18 scaring the bejabbers out of everybody here. We -- we have 19 been dealing with contingent liabilities over the decades. 20 MS. HARGIS: We have, but we have not shown it on 21 our books. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, okay. I understand 23 that. 24 MS. HARGIS: And by showing it on our books, it's 25 going to affect our -- our ability again in the bond market, 11-23-09 92 1 so there are repercussions to this liability. So, it's 2 unfortunate, and we see it as -- as -- you know, as an 3 accountant, we have fought this for a long time, you know, 4 the Texas Society of CPA's, and even the American Institute, 5 but we didn't get there, because S.E.C. had a bigger hand 6 than we did. So, this is more affecting our bond rating, our 7 -- and our ability to get bonds because of this liability 8 we're showing on our books. So we're just saying that -- 9 even the state of Texas took a stand and said they're not 10 doing GASB because they look at this on an annual basis. 11 This is a one-year contract, and every year they look at it. 12 And that's all we're asking you to do, is to look at it on an 13 annual basis and make that decision on an annual basis. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 15 MS. HARGIS: Which is better for everyone. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly what we've been doing 17 for the last several years. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 19 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: And making whatever adjustments we 21 deemed were -- 22 MS. HYDE: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: -- appropriate, to go in whatever 24 direction we thought was appropriate. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 11-23-09 93 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Knowing this sort of thing was 2 coming on, knowing what the liability was. 3 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 4 MS. HYDE: Does that answer all your questions, 5 Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sort of. 7 MS. HYDE: Are you going to hit the button or am I 8 hitting the button? 9 MR. LOONEY: One thing, Commissioner, that any time 10 you have this flexibility in this process, that you always 11 have the ability to grandfather any retiree that's currently 12 under the program. You always have that ability, so you may 13 make changes in GASB in relationship to future retirees and 14 still retain everything that's current for current retirees. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff wants to be 17 grandfathered here, I think. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How many current -- how many 19 current retirees does the county have? 20 MS. HYDE: Fourteen. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So we're talking about all 22 this for benefits for 14 people? 23 MR. LOONEY: No. 24 MS. HYDE: No, not -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know you're talking about 11-23-09 94 1 the future, but, I mean, if that's the total we've had after 2 all these years, I don't see Kerr County's retiree population 3 going up to 100, 200 any time. 4 MS. HYDE: Oh. I'd -- 5 MR. LOONEY: With all respect, that's not a 6 question of who actually is going to retire. It's a federal 7 accounting process that makes an estimation on your 8 population. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 10 MR. LOONEY: It has nothing to do with the actual 11 process of people selecting it. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, but where we're at 13 already is -- is what Eva told me is correct last week. 14 Like, now, for health benefits, the retiree doesn't get any 15 benefit from that until they're 60 years of age, okay? 16 Otherwise, up until 60 years of age, you're paying the full 17 amount yourself if you retire before then. So you've 18 already -- you know, and I'll use myself as an example. 19 Sixty years of age, I'm going to have 40 years of service 20 with this county before the County offers me anything in 21 health insurance as a retiree. And I think if we're looking 22 at limiting that more, that's -- that's really disgracing our 23 retirees, and that's not correct for the retirees. 24 MS. HYDE: That's not what we've said. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's where it -- to me, 11-23-09 95 1 that's where it's headed. It may be, because you and I have 2 had several conversations about where it should head in 3 regards to retirees, and I think that's the totally wrong 4 direction when you're talking about people that give that 5 many years of their life to this county. 6 AUDIENCE: That's right. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's my comment. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I told you to wear that gun. 9 MR. LOONEY: Hey. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just don't pull it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At least the handcuffs. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Linda's already there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got some proposed 14 changes to the plan for the Court to consider. Is that where 15 we are? 16 MR. LOONEY: Just for clarification purposes, 17 Judge, Commissioners, the -- whenever we make a policy change 18 or a plan change and move to a new carrier, new administrator 19 or whatever, we go back and actually, on an annual basis, 20 review our contract for the delivery of the health care 21 insurance to the employee. This is the plan document itself 22 that governs how the plan pays the benefits to employees. 23 We've had a couple of federal regulations that have been 24 passed this last year that will take effect in this next 25 coming year which we are responsible for, regardless. 11-23-09 96 1 Just -- it's federal regs that we have to put these benefits 2 into our plan. There's some other things that have come up 3 during this evaluation process that Mr. Malek and Eva and I 4 have discussed to some extent. They are some recommendations 5 to the Court, but they are a material modification to the 6 plan, and any time you have a material modification to the 7 plan, we have to have an amendment to the current plan. So, 8 the reason that we are bringing this information to you today 9 is because, based on your decision, some of these will make a 10 material modification, which the plan will change and the 11 delivery of benefits for the next plan year. So, with that, 12 I'm going to let Mr. Malek and Eva kind of walk you through 13 what the changes are. 14 MS. HYDE: The Mental Parity Act. During open 15 enrollment, anyone that went through open enrollment so far, 16 we talked about that. It's federally mandated. There's no 17 action needed, and everyone -- everyone understood it, at 18 least during open enrollment. The $2 million maximum 19 lifetime is inexclusive of both physical as well as mental 20 now, and that's -- that was federally mandated. Questions on 21 that? Your turn. 22 MR. MALEK: Oh, thanks a lot. I like the way this 23 works. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: She gets to choose which ones she 25 takes, though. 11-23-09 97 1 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. Him first, then me. 2 MR. MALEK: The first thing I want you to know 3 about the spousal carve out as we start this is that it does 4 not affect current Kerr County employees. This will be 5 future employees hired after January 1st. That's really the 6 most important thing I want you to know about this. Now, 7 with that said, what we're talking about here is spouses who 8 have jobs elsewhere, and who have access to health insurance 9 coverage, we want them to basically take that plan instead of 10 coming onto the Kerr County plan. What happens is, we get 11 selected again from a risk standpoint in the scenario that we 12 have now, and so we're trying to stop that from happening. 13 And so we're recommending that we have a surcharge on anybody 14 who has access to other health insurance coverage, and that 15 surcharge would be $200 a month, should they decide to then 16 still enroll in the Kerr County plan. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: This is as to spouses of future 18 employees of Kerr County who have other coverage available to 19 them through their employment, but who, notwithstanding that, 20 wish to come onto our plan? 21 MR. MALEK: That's correct. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MS. HYDE: We already have -- we talked about this 24 a couple of months ago, and we already have employees now who 25 were able to opt out of the insurance in the past, and are no 11-23-09 98 1 longer allowed to opt out. Their insurance has now told 2 them, "You will be part of whatever insurance that you have 3 available. We will not insure you if you don't." 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is $200 sufficient to 5 encourage them to stay with their other employers? Or -- 6 MS. HYDE: I don't know, but I know that the 7 Sheriff has a gun and he's behind me. So -- 8 MR. MALEK: We think that $200 would be very much 9 of an encouragement. It's an additional $200, so there's 10 already a charge for the spousal charge. This would be a 11 surcharge, again, more -- more than what is being charged 12 now. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Looney, as the County's 14 consultant in representing the best interests of the county, 15 is it your recommendation that we adopt this recommendation, 16 the surcharge? 17 MR. LOONEY: What has occurred in the county is 18 that the county's insurance program for their employees is 19 looked upon as probably the premier health care plan in the 20 county, or -- and because we have the relationship with our 21 HRA accounts, where we granted that HRA contribution to 22 spousal units, it has become the most selected contract. As 23 a result, we've got substantially more dependents on the plan 24 than we've had in the past, and that's increased our cost. 25 So, this is a methodology -- this is a method of having those 11-23-09 99 1 people select the plan that they have the employers 2 contributing toward. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: And in the county's best interest, 4 you recommend that we adopt this? 5 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. And 8 I agree, this is probably a good plan. Now, are we going to 9 vote on an overall program, the overall program here today? 10 MR. LOONEY: Well, we're going to have five 11 different items. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is number one? 13 MS. HYDE: This is one item. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're going to expect 15 me to remember all five of those things, right? 16 MR. LOONEY: Well, sir -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do them individually. 18 MR. MALEK: Yeah -- yes, you can do them 19 individually if you want. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's do. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval of 25 whatever all that's about. 11-23-09 100 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Spousal carve out surcharge. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the 5 approval of the spousal carve out surcharge, as recommended 6 by Mr. Looney and our H.R. Department. Question or 7 discussion on the motion? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let's put in the 9 motion those issues of new employees, spouses that have other 10 insurance, and they're choosing to go on ours, and that's 11 where the $200 comes in. What else was it? There was two or 12 three things there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's after -- after January 1, 14 2010. 15 MR. MALEK: It will be effective January 1. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I can try and word it for you like I 17 did moments ago, Commissioner. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, just like you did 19 moments ago. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The spousal carve out that's being 21 recommended would apply to employees of Kerr County who 22 become such employees after January 1st, 2010, and who wish 23 to have coverage available for their spouse, and that spouse 24 has coverage available through another employer, but 25 notwithstanding that, wishes to come under the Kerr County 11-23-09 101 1 plan, the recommendation being that we charge those spouses a 2 surcharge of $200 a month in addition to the normal charge 3 for those spouses. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. He should have 5 went to law school. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MS. HYDE: And that will -- each one of these will 8 be an order? Or one order? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Each one. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the first of them; 11 we're going to act on it. 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the language of the motion. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my motion, yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I seconded already. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. And we got a second now. 18 Question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of that 19 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. We've adopted 24 the first one, okay. 25 MS. HYDE: My turn. 11-23-09 102 1 MR. MALEK: You get all the easy ones. 2 MS. HYDE: We talked about this during open 3 enrollment as well. We talked about E.R. visits that are not 4 emergencies, and we went over it in some detail, because some 5 people -- this one got pretty heated pretty quickly. "Who 6 are you to say that it's not an emergency?" It's not what 7 we're saying. Tim was probably the greatest one, because he 8 said, "What happens if I go to the E.R." -- and he has no 9 HIPAA protection, because he -- where is he? 10 MR. BOLLIER: I'm right here. 11 MS. HYDE: Because he did it in open forum. So he 12 said, "What happens if I go to the E.R. thinking I'm having a 13 heart attack, and they tell me that I'm constipated or have 14 gas?" And that was a great one. That was a great one, 15 because that's very similar. I mean, anybody that's had it 16 knows it's real similar. The E.R. knows, and will do the 17 same appeal process that we've done before. If we had the 18 copay, a hundred -- it went down; my recommendation was 250 19 bucks, so I got outvoted. The recommendation is $125 copay 20 for non-emergency use. If -- if they get charged the 125 and 21 they feel like it was an emergency, they bring it to us; we 22 appeal it, and we get notes, the doctor's notes that tell us, 23 you know, did little Susie scrape her knee three weeks ago 24 and we're just now getting around to it, or is this a sincere 25 emergency? 11-23-09 103 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who levies the charge? We 2 do, or the hospital? 3 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who levies the $125 charge, 5 we or the hospital? 6 MS. HYDE: Our insurance. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Our insurance? 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who does the administrative 10 logistics of keeping up with all of this? 11 MS. HYDE: We do. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ah, okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is -- 14 MS. HYDE: UMR, the insurance -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Our T.P.A. 16 MR. MALEK: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does an emergency room visit -- 18 or if you go to a minor emergency clinic, is that an E.R. -- 19 MS. HYDE: The urgent care copay? 20 MR. MALEK: That's what that is. 21 MS. HYDE: That's what that is. I learned 22 something new. They call it doc in the box, or -- I thought 23 that was pretty cool. But, yeah, if you go to urgent care, 24 like in Boerne, that's 35 bucks. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, that's not an 11-23-09 104 1 emergency room visit. 2 MR. LOONEY: No. 3 MS. HYDE: It's urgent care. It's urgent care, but 4 it's not considered an emergency room. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: So it's a lot cheaper. So, the 7 emergency room visit is going to be 50 bucks copay; that's 8 what it's been forever. And then I will say this for the 9 Sheriff, 'cause he helped me out. I couldn't understand why 10 our E.R. visits were so high. We couldn't get them down. 11 And he said years ago, when y'all -- with y'all's insurance, 12 you were encouraged to go to the E.R., 'cause you got more 13 covered and it was cheaper. But that has changed in the 14 insurance industry now; it's flip-flopped. You go to the 15 E.R. and it costs you out the wazoo. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eva? 17 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry. Add $125? 19 MS. HYDE: Copay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Add that to what? 21 MS. HYDE: To their -- 22 MR. LOONEY: Plan document. 23 MS. HYDE: The plan document. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a number that is -- 25 is there a copay number today? 11-23-09 105 1 MS. HYDE: There is for an emergency use of the 2 E.R. That's $50. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking about 4 nonemergency. 5 MS. HYDE: No, sir, there is not one. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this -- all we're doing 7 is adding $125? 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Looney, as the Kerr County 10 consultant, in looking after the County's interests, what is 11 your recommendation with regard to this particular matter? 12 MR. LOONEY: I recommend that the Court adopt this 13 for addition to the plan document. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Is 125 an appropriate number, or 15 should it be more or less, in your opinion? 16 MR. LOONEY: $125 is above what we see as an 17 average copayment today in the market. We normally see 18 copays of $75 to $100. We've seen some as high as 150, 175, 19 a few contracts that say we don't cover it at all. So 125, I 20 believe, is a reasonable number for this. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the copay 23 for non-emergency use of emergency room, and adding the 24 urgent care copay of $35 as an alternative. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11-23-09 106 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 2 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 3 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 4 hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Now it's hot 9 potato time, so it must be your turn, Mr. Malek. 10 MR. MALEK: Oh, gosh. Okay. Can we switch the 11 order? All right. This is a conflict in our current plan 12 document, and it conflicts with our stop loss policy. And 13 the thing that I want you to really grasp upon at the 14 beginning of this is, we're talking about an insurance policy 15 issue, not a personnel policy issue, so we're not asking you 16 to change the personnel policy. We're really trying to get 17 our stop loss leave policy in sync with our plan document, 18 and that is not the case right now. Our current plan 19 document says that after 90 days of active employment, if 20 you're not active -- what they defined as an active employee, 21 then you are no longer covered under the policy, and so then 22 not covered under the stop loss policy. And so what is 23 normally standard is six months, and so right now, our stop 24 loss coverage would be in jeopardy. Also, the current Kerr 25 County personnel policy says that you can be off really 11-23-09 107 1 indefinitely without losing your insurance coverage, and so 2 what we're again talking about is insurance coverage here, 3 and there is a process in place that is a standard in the 4 industry that is adopted to deal with people going out on 5 leave of absence. And in this case, the general accepted 6 practice is a six-month leave of absence, and then you would 7 go out on COBRA, and then when that expired, you would then 8 be eligible for Medicare. So, there's a safety net all the 9 way down the line for you to still stay covered, so you 10 wouldn't have a gap necessarily in coverage. The -- also -- 11 we also would want to run FMLA concurrently from the first 12 day of leave. And that's to -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me stop you just a moment here. 14 The FMLA starting to run concurrently is already in the 15 personnel policy, is it not? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead. 18 MR. MALEK: So, then they wouldn't change the 19 policy, but just a reminder that FMLA is going to run 20 concurrently with that leave. So, again, the recommendation 21 would be to use a six-month leave of absence policy -- leave 22 of absence for the insurance policy to then coincide with the 23 stop loss policy, because if you have a gap in coverage, our 24 stop loss policy will not cover that, and that's not a good 25 thing. That's a really bad thing, because generally that's 11-23-09 108 1 what's going to happen, is that's going to be a large claim, 2 and then we'll be uncovered, and so we want to stop that from 3 happening. So, we're recommending that we use a six-month 4 leave of absence policy in our plan document, and then that 5 person would take COBRA, and then after that, you would be 6 eligible for Medicare. Because, generally, the most COBRA 7 could run would be 27 months, and the reason they use 27 8 months is because that's going to be the waiting period for 9 you to become eligible for Medicare. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Medicare and/or Medicaid? 11 Or just Medicare? 12 MR. MALEK: It's really Medicare. You'd be 13 eligible for Medicare. Medicaid is based on income. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what your 15 recommendation encompasses is assuring that our stop loss 16 coverage remains in effect -- 17 MS. HYDE: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- for as long as we can make it 19 remain in effect, so that in the cases where you've got these 20 extensive absences where there are more likely to be pretty 21 significant claims, we got stop loss coverage, and those 22 folks aren't let off the hook. 23 MS. HYDE: Right. 24 MR. MALEK: Right. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11-23-09 109 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're going from what to 2 this? 3 MR. MALEK: It was 90 days. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. MALEK: And that didn't coincide with the 6 current policy you had, the personnel policy that you had in 7 place. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it goes from 90 days to 9 six months? 10 MR. MALEK: It's a straight six months. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this COBRA and Medicare 12 and all of that, that's always been there? 13 MR. MALEK: Yes, it has. 14 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. The Sheriff has -- stand up; we want to see you, 19 Rusty. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, thank you. Want me to 21 stand on the chair, as Buster would say? If you have an 22 employee that's got eight, nine months of sick leave, does 23 this take them off the county insurance after six months? So 24 they've already got built up sick leave for the county 25 insurance that's part of their benefits? 11-23-09 110 1 MS. HYDE: Put them onto COBRA. 2 MR. MALEK: That's right. That -- now, again, this 3 doesn't affect them getting paid. But it's after six months, 4 that person would then be going on COBRA. That's correct. 5 MR. LOONEY: Be on COBRA coverage. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Even though they're still 7 paying because of the -- paying for the premiums of this 8 health insurance? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The difference is, I think, because 10 when we talk about -- it's not whether they're still paid or 11 not. It is active employment or actively at work or not is 12 what triggers under -- under the stop loss policy. That -- 13 that is what gets us. Now, they can continue to be paid. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, I mean, is -- because it 15 would have to be a pretty drastic illness if they're going to 16 be out that long, and they've got that much sick leave. In 17 the middle of being out that long -- it started, well, under 18 this insurance, okay? Now they're going to be out longer. 19 In the middle of that, is their insurance going to change, or 20 going to have to start paying all over again for the illness? 21 MS. HYDE: COBRA is the same insurance that we're 22 covered under. We're just paying -- it's a COBRA payment 23 versus the county payment. 24 MR. MALEK: Continuation. 25 MS. HYDE: And the County can determine that they 11-23-09 111 1 want to pay that COBRA payment if they'd like. So -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Under the circumstances where we had 3 that much sick leave accrued on grandfathered employees, I 4 suspect we would, because they're entitled to that benefit 5 because they're still on the payroll. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'd consider it case by 7 case. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely, yeah. Have to be. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the Judge just 10 answered the question, Rusty. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He may have, and I missed part 12 of it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again, so -- he 14 wasn't listening. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If we have somebody that's on the 16 payroll, because they've got this huge accumulation of sick 17 time, -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and they go past the six months, 20 so we're then into a COBRA situation, then it falls into the 21 Court's lap about whether or not the Court wants to absorb 22 that COBRA payment. And each case, as Commissioner Oehler 23 said, would be a case-by-case basis. But if we got a paid 24 employee that's got all this accumulated because of many, 25 many years of service, I feel very strongly that since 11-23-09 112 1 they're still on the payroll, we'd probably approve the 2 continuation of the County paying that COBRA cost. But the 3 maximum COBRA, as Mr. Malek said, is 27 months, I believe, 4 that we can -- 5 MS. HYDE: For the employee. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 MS. HYDE: And then the employee's pay would then 8 take care of the payments for the others, unless the Court 9 subsidized the COBRA. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Now, the second part of 12 my question, you have on the FMLA leave -- and Eva and I know 13 this directly because of what all it takes and the paperwork 14 that has to be filled out. It is extremely hard to put 15 somebody on FMLA leave the first day of occurrence. I've had 16 some people that they thought they were going to be out; four 17 days later, they were back. It didn't need to be. I 18 believe -- they're out today, and Eva's just pointing that 19 out. But then, like, if it -- especially if it's a back 20 injury or something, you've got to get the specialist and the 21 doctors to fill out all that paperwork. That's going to take 22 a week to get that back from them. You know, some of them 23 are charging them 20 bucks just to fill that out, and it just 24 goes on their pile. It's hard to know that that person, 25 because of all the dates on that paperwork, is going to be on 11-23-09 113 1 that FMLA leave day one. I would just -- to make it where 2 you can fit things in -- and I've had four employees in the 3 last week, trying to give them at least five days so that you 4 know whether they're really going to be out, you know, two 5 weeks, three weeks. If you don't give them any time -- I had 6 one that fell off a bicycle the other day and fractured an 7 elbow, and they said, "Oh, let's get him on FMLA." Well, by 8 the time they got through with the specialist appointment, 9 then they said, "There's nothing we can do for your elbow. 10 They can't set it anyhow. Go on back to work." We wouldn't 11 have even gotten all that paperwork filled out by then, but 12 yesterday I'd have been in violation, 'cause he wasn't on it 13 day one. I'd recommend giving us at least five days to get 14 them on that FMLA. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think all this -- 16 MS. HYDE: Okay, you'll pass it to me. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is made retroactively anyhow. 18 MS. HYDE: Right, it's going to be retro. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Just retro back to day one. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That wasn't the way it's been 21 explained. 22 MS. HYDE: No. No, we're talking about -- this 23 isn't the personnel policy. This is for insurance. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's still FMLA. It's getting 25 the paperwork done. 11-23-09 114 1 MR. MALEK: Well, that doesn't affect this issue 2 here. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. This 5 is probably my boy-dummy question of the year. Six months, 6 and then goes on COBRA. Let's say at the end of eight 7 months, this person can come back into our system. 8 MS. HYDE: Great question. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, thank you so much. 10 What about an answer? 11 MS. HYDE: Great question. There is nothing -- no 12 harm, no foul. The employee comes back to work full-time, 13 they're cured, everything is great, they go back on our 14 insurance. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: But in the meantime, we kept the 17 stop loss carrier on the hook. 18 MS. HYDE: Right. 19 MR. MALEK: That's the critical part. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is what we want to happen. 21 MS. HYDE: We don't want to lose the stop loss. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the important 23 factor. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 MS. HYDE: We don't want the employee to lose 11-23-09 115 1 insurance, either. 2 MR. MALEK: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're not, by 4 keeping the stop loss carrier on the hook. 5 MS. HYDE: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a motion and second, I 7 believe, Judge. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, do we have one? 9 THE CLERK: We have a motion and a second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion and second. Further 11 question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 12 by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 17 the -- this is four? Is this four? 18 MS. HYDE: Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Retirees over 19 65. If a retiree is over 65, then retiree must enroll in 20 Medicare, Part A and B. County retiree policy would be 21 secondary to Medicare. Currently in our policy, in the way 22 that we do things, there is none -- there is nothing telling 23 the retiree they need to go for Social Security and Medicare, 24 and what we're requesting is that once they hit 65, the 25 retiree must enroll in Medicare, Part A and B, and our 11-23-09 116 1 insurance would then become secondary. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is for retirees, not 3 active employees? 4 MS. HYDE: Right. Retirees under 65 are not 5 affected. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval. Question or discussion? I assume your 10 recommendation is that we adopt this, Mr. Looney? 11 MR. LOONEY: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 13 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 18 MR. MALEK: That was easy. Finally, I get an 19 easier one. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How come you took the good 21 ones? 22 MR. MALEK: We currently have a stop smoking 23 coverage for over-the-counter stop smoking medications that 24 are covered currently. We did not, I assume, for whatever 25 reason, last year -- a lot of these drugs, Chantix, Zyban, 11-23-09 117 1 are fairly new on the market, and so there really wasn't a 2 lot of data out there on how effective they were. There is 3 more data out there. The success rates with using these 4 drugs are pretty decent for stop smoking, over 60 percent. 5 That's better than what a lot of them are at right now. So, 6 the recommendation is to add these two Rx drugs to our 7 current Rx policy so that we can, you know, cover them under 8 our wellness program, which encourages stop smoking. 9 MS. HYDE: And it's not just smoking; we should 10 have called it tobacco, but in our insurance policy it talks 11 about smoking. 12 MR. MALEK: Yeah. 13 MS. HYDE: Because it's for tobacco and the -- worm 14 dirt? Tim? The stuff -- snuff? Snuff. It also helps with 15 those as well. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there an additional cost? 17 MR. LOONEY: The only additional cost, 18 Commissioner, is the fact that they would have this now 19 covered under the health care plan. It would be covered 20 under the plan as an item that's covered. And we've looked 21 at the cost of these in the past. That's one of the reasons 22 we haven't recommended it, 'cause it was -- it was high. 23 MS. HYDE: High. 24 MR. LOONEY: We're looking now at about maybe 25 or 25 30 percent of the cost that it was four or five years ago, so 11-23-09 118 1 it's come down significantly. 2 MS. HYDE: We do it one time. It's not that we do 3 it, like, every year, so you can -- you know, your New Year's 4 resolution, and you do it every single year. It's like -- 5 MR. LOONEY: They're set up for one treatment 6 program. They go through that program, and then that's the 7 only one we'll pay for, is the one-shot program, the one 8 program. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 13 raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 18 MS. HYDE: Crap. 19 MR. LOONEY: You get a good one. 20 MS. HYDE: Retiree dependents under 65. First 21 thing I notice is down at the bottom, Kerr County retirees 22 not affected; they're grandfathered. The current policy says 23 retiree dependents under 65 pay 50 percent of the premium. 24 Recommendation. Dependents -- dependents, not the spouse. 25 Dependents of the retiree would be full price effective 1-2 11-23-09 119 1 of 2010. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not talking about spouses. 3 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We're talking about other 5 dependents. 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Child, children, 7 grandchildren. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happens to that 9 individual at age 65? 10 MS. HYDE: We just passed at age 65, they go to 11 Medicare/Medicaid. 12 MR. LOONEY: And the plan becomes secondary. 13 MS. HYDE: The plan becomes secondary. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: We're talking about dependents. 15 MR. MALEK: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If -- if I'm 65 and I -- let's say I 17 have minor dependents. Do I have coverage under Medicare for 18 dependents also? 19 MR. LOONEY: No, not for dependents. They would be 20 covered under the basic plan as they were previously. 21 They'll just be paying the premium for it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about the 24 dependents of a retiree -- 25 MS. HYDE: Okay, I'm confused. 11-23-09 120 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- under 65 at the time 2 this person is retired pays 50 percent. That's current. 3 What happens if you change it and the retiree's spouse 4 undoubtedly becomes 65? Does that person pay the full? Or 5 is there another element here? 6 MR. MALEK: This isn't the same thing. This is 7 just for the dependents, not spouse, so this isn't -- this 8 doesn't include that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't include spouse. 10 MR. MALEK: It's only for children -- dependent 11 children. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dependent children. 13 MR. MALEK: We're only talking about dependent 14 children. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should say that. 16 MR. MALEK: Yeah, it's kind of a -- we say 17 employee, spouse, dependent, so "dependent" means dependent 18 children. And so what we're talking about here is them 19 paying the same price as an active employee would pay for 20 their dependent children. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more word makes it 22 clear. Add "children" so people understand. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: In the definition of the plan, is 25 "dependent" defined as children, and "spouse" as spouse? 11-23-09 121 1 MS. HYDE: Right. 2 MR. MALEK: That's in the plan document. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That's in the definition section. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are there a lot? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Careful. 6 MS. HYDE: The numbers are increasing. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really? 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A person 65 years old still 10 has kids in the house and depending on him? 11 MS. HYDE: Because you have more and more 12 grandparents that are taking care of grandchildren because 13 the children do not have coverage. And the children -- 14 MR. MALEK: That's generally what it is. 15 MS. HYDE: -- are -- are not -- they're not 16 insurable. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have a lot of that in 18 Kerr County? 19 MS. HYDE: We have more and more, yes, sir. You'd 20 be surprised. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would be surprised. I'd 22 be shocked. Of course, I'm shocked at daylight. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11-23-09 122 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion carries. Do we have 7 more? 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. It's his turn. 9 MR. MALEK: No, that's it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought she said no. 11 MS. HYDE: I didn't say a word. 12 MR. MALEK: Kind of the same, 'cause we're dealing 13 with retirees. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that all the damage you 15 guys can cause today? 16 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got a question in the back, 18 Judge. 19 MR. LOONEY: We've got another item that we'll -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 MR. LOONEY: You don't have -- we don't have all 22 the final information on it yet, but I need to bring it back 23 to the Court in the future, talking about our prescription 24 drug program. I'm sorry that the data is just not solid yet, 25 and I want to make sure it's solid before we bring it to you, 11-23-09 123 1 but we will be talking about the possibility of making a 2 change in the prescription drug program right now. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Which is a higher percentage of our 4 program than it really ought to be. 5 MR. LOONEY: 37 to 38 percent of our entire cost of 6 the program is in prescription drugs right now, which is two 7 to three times what the national average is. So, I'm going 8 to have to get back to you, though, with the -- the specific 9 data on that, because I want to make sure that everybody is 10 very clear on what we're doing. 11 MS. HYDE: That's the hard -- That's the hardest 12 one, 'cause it's a lot to understand, and it has to do with 13 money and people and prescriptions. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think, at the same 15 time, that maybe -- I'm just so impressed with what Rusty's 16 doing with his department health-wise, that it needs to be 17 talked about, because I think that what's going on with them 18 is a savings to all the rest of us. I mean, he -- he's 19 getting -- he's not buying the medications any more. Simple 20 as that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know why he wants to think 22 about retiring, then, do you? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, me either. 24 MR. LOONEY: Retiring? You're not retiring, are 25 you? 11-23-09 124 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I'm not retiring yet. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if that's -- you know, 3 I'd like to have that conversation. 4 MR. LOONEY: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At the same time when you 6 bring that back, he can encourage the rest of us to get out 7 off of our fat butts and get out there and do a health plan. 8 MR. LOONEY: I -- there are a number of programs 9 from the wellness side of it. A lot of it -- a lot of it, 10 though, is based on somebody taking charge and getting people 11 to actually do it. If you -- you can do all the health risk 12 assessments, you can do all of the online stuff, you can 13 present a lot of programs, but until you get somebody 14 actively involved in -- the person actively involved in the 15 process, it's -- you're just not accomplishing much. So, I'd 16 love to see what kind of whip and chair he's been using. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, what I'm curious -- I 18 think what Buster's saying, the Court took it on their own, 19 and through Eva and a lot of other people, to start offering 20 employees that did that -- go out and do that, they get a 21 reimbursement, so that people have a benefit of $20 a month 22 as long as they are attending. I don't know if there's some 23 type of benefit that the insurance program or the insurance 24 people could give employees that do aggressively go out and 25 set standards and do that kind of stuff. That would -- 11-23-09 125 1 would, one, save the county on insurance costs, and encourage 2 more employee involvement in staying fit. 3 MR. LOONEY: There are a number of programs we can 4 present to the Court on -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just as an example, Rusty, 6 how much weight have y'all lost in -- what, four months? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Total since June, my 8 department has lost somewhere between 400 and 450 pounds. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a bunch. 10 MR. LOONEY: That is a bunch. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's healthy. 12 MS. HYDE: But the reduction -- the reduction in 13 prescriptions is another area that we have lost, because 14 we've had a reduction in the prescriptions, in the kind of 15 prescriptions. Of course, because of HIPAA, I can't say 16 anything. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but I can directly. A 18 number of people have been able to get off their medication. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's exactly what I'm 20 saying here. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've been on Lipitor for four 22 years at the highest amount they could give, and I am totally 23 off of it now, because -- totally because of the fitness and 24 the diet part of it. Those are the things that really can 25 save this county. 11-23-09 126 1 MS. HYDE: I went from the high level of Synthroid, 2 which is for your thyroid, down to the minimum. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, did you have a comment that you 4 wanted to -- 5 MR. BOLLIER: Just -- I just wanted to ask a 6 question. I want to go all the way back to the start, to 7 where y'all were talking about going to the emergency room 8 and what an emergency -- blah, blah, blah. I have -- I have 9 a question. Like, on the weekends, there's no doctors 10 available on the weekends that I know of. My doctor's office 11 is only open on Saturday, like, to lunchtime. So, if 12 something happens, you know, you're feeling bad or something, 13 what do we do if we -- you know, 'cause if it's not a 14 life-threatening situation -- 15 MS. HYDE: Then it's not an emergency. If it's not 16 life-threatening, if it's not an emergency situation, then 17 you call and make an appointment to see your doctor. If it's 18 an emergency, you go to the emergency room, like we said in 19 class. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Or go to the doc in the box. 21 MS. HYDE: Or go to the doc in the box up in 22 Boerne. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Franklin. 24 MS. HYDE: Franklin Clinic. 25 MR. BOLLIER: I forgot about those. 11-23-09 127 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One just curiosity question, 2 Judge. Right after we, you know, open enrolled and starting 3 to go through this insurance, and we're making changes to 4 this insurance, would that in any way have affected any of 5 the prior bids that we got on this insurance? 6 MR. LOONEY: No, not on the bids. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or material, you know, changes 8 in it as far as limiting and copay and all that would have 9 been beneficial to all the other companies that bid, to have 10 this before? 11 MR. LOONEY: No. 12 MS. HYDE: Whoever would have wanted would have 13 gone over it. 14 MR. LOONEY: That cost -- the cost that we're 15 talking about here is more of a material change in the 16 contract than actual -- there are some cost savings that are 17 involved there, but it wouldn't affect it, no. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We done with that one? 20 MR. LOONEY: Got it done. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. I want to go to 22 Item 14; consider, discuss, take appropriate action for a 23 variance on an easement off of F.M. 480 in Center Point. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 25 MR. ODOM: Go ahead? All right. I'm sorry, I was 11-23-09 128 1 waiting for the Judge. Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't wait on him. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Nobody else does. Why should you? 5 Go ahead. 6 MR. ODOM: That's true. Rusty doesn't. It says -- 7 basically, what we have is we have Chris Shuler owns two 8 pieces of property off Farm-Market 480, and he would like to 9 purchase 10.03 acres behind his property which doesn't have 10 access. He has been working with the Texas Veterans Board 11 for a variance on this, and that's what we're before the 12 Court on, to discuss the possibility of -- of having a 13 variance from -- of a 30-foot variance to this property. 14 And, basically, what I'd like do is defer that to Jonathan 15 for his -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Input? 17 MR. ODOM: -- input. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick -- quick 19 correction, Len. Chris Shuler owns the two pieces of 20 property that front 480. The 10.03 is currently owned by 21 Mr. Lackey, who wishes to sell it to -- 22 MR. ODOM: Chris. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- James Shuler, who is 24 Chris' father. So, I just want to get that in the record. 25 That's the way it stands at the moment. 11-23-09 129 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The person that owns the two 2 pieces trying to buy the one behind it has access. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The father is trying to buy 4 the two behind it to be financed by Texas Veterans Land 5 Board. And Chris, the son, owns the two pieces that front 6 480, from which an easement will be required to access the 7 10 acres in the back. 8 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay, here we go. 10 MR. ODOM: Here we go. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The issue is really the width of the 12 easement, isn't it? 13 MR. ODOM: That -- well, there was a question -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was. 15 MR. ODOM: -- whether it was, but after talking 16 with Jonathan, maybe that is not an issue. May not even be 17 necessary to -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That'll cloud it a little bit, 19 but probably still not -- I don't -- obviously, I don't like 20 variances. The purpose of this is to gain access for a 21 mortgage, basically, for the loan. It's nothing to do with 22 subdividing property. And this really is not any different 23 than -- I think every property/ranch owner in the -- probably 24 the county has a mortgage on their house. We have to survey 25 out -- I've had to do it myself. As an example, I've had to 11-23-09 130 1 survey a center line down our ranch road to my house, to my 2 3 acres that I own outright, and the rest of the ranch is 3 owned by our family business. My sister has a separate one. 4 Those are -- have not required platting. Those are just 5 access easements for a bank to require a mortgage 6 requirement. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The lending institution 8 requirement. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And I don't think that 10 is a -- that does not trigger platting, in my mind. If, at 11 some point, Mr. Shuler wants to sell a piece of that property 12 to another -- you know, to Bruce, sell 5 acres, 5.01 acres to 13 Bruce, then I think he has to come to the Court to get a 14 variance at that point, but I don't think anything's required 15 at this point in time. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or build a road. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, the easement of 18 30 feet can be granted, but -- without requiring an easement, 19 but we're deferring to some other date what the disposition 20 of the 10.3 -- 10.03 acres, if somebody has another plan for 21 that, or it's subsequently sold, another plan evolved. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then the whole issue of the 24 easement has to come back. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. As long as it's all 11-23-09 131 1 in one entity under the family as they're doing it, to me, 2 it's just a -- they need it for the convenience of the 3 mortgage, and that's not the intent of platting. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 5 MR. CHRIS SHULER: If we sell it between family 6 members, we don't have to get -- give the 60 feet; is that 7 correct? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 9 MR. CHRIS SHULER: If I sell 5 acres to another -- 10 a sibling of mine? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that would be correct. 12 MR. CHRIS SHULER: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Long as it's amongst family, 15 there's 1.03. 16 MR. CHRIS SHULER: Yeah. 17 MR. ODOM: 1.03 goes and looks at that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a 30-foot -- the 20 30-foot easement there, so does that change one or both of 21 these two lot sizes? 22 MR. CHRIS SHULER: Just one. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just an easement. Not 24 changing the size. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't? 11-23-09 132 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just an easement. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not needed. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what do we -- what's 5 the action required by us? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I say no action's required by 7 this Court. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then they can proceed to do 9 what they need. Well, wait a minute. Hold on a second. 10 What do they need to go to the Texas Veterans Land Board and 11 be able to satisfy their requirements? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the record of this 13 discussion. 14 MR. ODOM: The minutes for this agenda. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't require -- 16 MR. JAMES SHULER: We've already talked to the 17 Veterans Land Board. They normally require a 60-foot 18 easement, but will be amenable to a 30-foot easement if the 19 County approves it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you do need an 21 approval; is that correct? 22 MR. JAMES SHULER: We need some kind of document 23 from the County that says you're okay with this 30-foot 24 easement for them to lend the money to us. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine, but I think it's 11-23-09 133 1 just discussion that this does not require platting, and they 2 can do whatever they want with their property. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. I'm 4 just trying to satisfy his needs for the Texas Veterans Land 5 Board. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He needs a letter. He needs 7 a letter from somebody from the Court, from County Attorney 8 or something, saying that this platting is not required. 9 MS. BAILEY: Do you want to authorize me to write a 10 letter saying that? That would probably suffice. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we do it that 12 way? Why don't we authorize the County Attorney to draft a 13 letter for Mr. Shuler so they can present it to Texas 14 Veterans Land Board indicating that the easement is 15 appropriate and in place. 16 MR. ODOM: The 30 foot? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For 30 feet, yes. 18 MR. JAMES SHULER: I think that would work for us, 19 yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We need formal Court action on that? 21 Or just -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's a motion. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think so. Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 25 that effect. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 11-23-09 134 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. I want to 6 quickly go ahead and take up the other two items for Mr. Odom 7 so we can get him on out of here and back to work. 8 (Commissioner Letz left the meeting.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 12, consider, discuss, take 10 appropriate action to approve private road name request of 11 Jan Dowdy Lane West in Precinct 4. 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is two individuals -- or 13 two families have applied through the 911 office to make a 14 private road, Jan Dowdy Lane West, and this private road 15 exists in Precinct 4 off -- and off of a private road, Dee 16 Trail, which is off of Dowling Road. 911 has approved this, 17 and at this time, we ask the Court for their approval of this 18 private road name, Jan Dowdy Lane West. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 23 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-23-09 135 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. We'll go to 3 Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to set a 4 public hearing for approving raising the speed limit to 5 45 miles per hour, and also adding two warning signs to curve 6 on Skyline Drive in Center Point located in Precinct 2. 7 Mr. Odom? 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have run the -- our tubes 9 across there and found the range from 38 to 45 miles an hour 10 on this straightaway. We're asking the Court to set a public 11 hearing for December the 28th, 2009, at 9:30 a.m., for this 12 posting for a speed limit at 45 miles an hour. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And the curve signs? 14 MR. ODOM: And curve signs. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval to set a public hearing on the matter December 28th, 20 2009, at 9:30 a.m. Question or discussion? All in favor of 21 the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay, let's 11-23-09 136 1 go into recess. Why don't we come back at a quarter till 2 2:00. 3 MR. ODOM: What about the equipment, Judge? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 5 MR. ODOM: Would you like for me to make that -- 6 for the equipment? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Let me withdraw that 8 declaration that we're in recess. Let's go back to Item 10; 9 reconsider -- consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 10 open, read, and award proposal for used 66-inch single drum 11 vibratory compactor. Mr. Odom, do you have a recommendation? 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I do. We had four bids. We 13 had one from Holt, RDO, Romco, and Closner. We had two that 14 were out. They had bid '05 and '06; our specs were '08. The 15 two that were close was Holt and Closner, and the low -- that 16 range was from 63,720 to 48,950. We make a recommendation 17 that the Court accept the bid from Closner Equipment for 18 $48,950 for our steel wheel, which is a very good bid. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Considerably below the other bid. 20 That was with specs? 21 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, RDO bid 22 54,895. Romco bid 51,089. And we already have a Dynamac, 23 which Closner bid, and it is a good piece of equipment, so we 24 have no problems with it. There's almost $15,000 difference 25 between the two that were qualified on this bid. The hours 11-23-09 137 1 were exact in there. As a matter of fact, Closner had less 2 hours than -- than Holt did, so it's, I think, a very good 3 bid. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval, on the 6 recommendation of the county Road Administrator, to approve 7 the purchase of the 66-inch drum roller. 8 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that emotion. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Further 11 question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Now we will 17 be in recess until 1:45. 18 (Recess taken from 12:01 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 (Commissioner Letz not present.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 22 we might. We were in recess for the lunch hour. Let's pick 23 up with our agenda and go to Item 8; consider, discuss, take 24 appropriate action for Tax Assessor/Collector's office to be 25 open March 2nd, 2010, also a scheduled holiday, for the 2010 11-23-09 138 1 primary election, per Section 12.004(c) and Section 83.00 -- 2 excuse me, 83.011 of the 2010-11 Texas election laws. 3 Probably the easiest thing to do also would be to call Item 4 9; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to adjust the 5 2009-2010 Kerr County holiday schedule. This shows to be my 6 item, but I'm not sure why I put on it here. 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: At the last meeting, you talked 8 about because Texas Independence Day is the same day, that 9 you were going to switch and give a different holiday. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the reason I called 11 them both, then. 12 MS. BOLIN: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I learned after the fact. 14 MS. BOLIN: I know that Commissioner Letz was 15 concerned that it would be -- the election would affect other 16 offices. Since everything's pulled in my office, my office 17 would be the only one affected on election day. Except, of 18 course, Rusty. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uh-huh. 20 MS. BOLIN: And security. But the courthouse would 21 have to be open. We'd be using this courtroom. I think we 22 are scheduled to use it; that's the polling place. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Use it as a polling place, and -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I.T.'s office, my office. 25 We'd have to have people here, plus we run ballots for them 11-23-09 139 1 all the time, so all those people would have to be called in. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: And do we not also use this as a -- 3 this courtroom as a place after the polls close where we 4 announce the results to the media and interested parties? 5 MS. BOLIN: We have started using the Ag Barn. We 6 take all of the stuff over there and have it all calculated, 7 and it's worked out great. All the media and everything's 8 over there instead of here. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I guess the question 10 before us is, do we have March the 2nd as a -- as a holiday 11 for most all folks, but not for some? Your people are 12 working 24/7 anyway, so -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, except the only 14 difference is, the ones that work here at the courthouse and 15 that are on the regular schedule that everybody else out at 16 the courthouse is. They're off on holidays and all that, so 17 those would be -- those holidays, I'd have to pay them the 18 overtime. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember a time when we 20 didn't have security here. 21 MS. BOLIN: That's very true. There's a lot of 22 times -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Of course, there was also a 24 Sheriff's Office here. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, that -- that's 11-23-09 140 1 true, too. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, they weren't here, but 3 their office was here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Door's locked, but -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have we covered the 6 overtime considerations on both for your people, Diane? On 7 both this day and -- and the December 31 date that you 8 brought before? 9 MS. BOLIN: We had agreed to give them a separate 10 day off. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A separate day off. 12 MS. BOLIN: An alternate day. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that contemplate that 14 working on a holiday is double and a half time? 15 MS. BOLIN: Ms. Hyde brought that to my attention, 16 but I still have not figured out how it could be double time 17 and a half. Time and a half, yes, I understand. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's time and a half plus a 19 holiday, which makes it double and a half time. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But they would get an extra 21 day off. 22 MS. BOLIN: Right. They'd just have the one day. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They wouldn't have any -- 24 they wouldn't have any additional day. They'd be paid two 25 and a half times, and you would not get an additional day. 11-23-09 141 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Am I correct, Sheriff? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be paid time and a half and 3 not get an additional day, that's correct. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's right. I said 5 two and a half; it's time and a half. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's time and a half. You 7 know, I mean, their normal -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Work the day, but they get 9 paid for their time, but they don't get an additional day on 10 top of that. 11 MS. BOLIN: So, they would get time and a half for 12 being here? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. That's the way I 14 understand the policy. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think you ought to 16 be certain that -- of what you speak, okay? You and Eva get 17 together and make certain, and with payroll. Make certain 18 that you're not getting into a two and a half times day. 19 MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay? Just so -- you know, 21 'cause you can really create a budgetary issue for yourself. 22 MS. BOLIN: That's very true. But this day I don't 23 have a choice on. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You do not what? 25 MS. BOLIN: I don't have a choice on this date. 11-23-09 142 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The real question is whether or not 3 we just delete that as a courthouse holiday and designate 4 some other day, such as a day in January. Correct, Buster? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yo no savvy English. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Also not speaking up very 7 quickly either. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. That's my holiday, 9 guys. But let's do whatever you want to do; I don't care. 10 Doesn't matter to me. I just don't want Letz to win. What 11 did he want to do? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: He's not here, so -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. What did he want to 14 do, though? Let's do something different. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do the opposite of what he 16 would have done? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, the opposite way. 18 MS. BOLIN: He wanted to make it a day open for 19 everybody, where the courthouse would be open for regular 20 business. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On that particular holiday, 22 and they were going to shift the holiday, which is Item 9, 23 shift that holiday to another time. Is that -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or do away with it 25 altogether. We could do that. 11-23-09 143 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's don't get crazy. 2 MS. BOLIN: For this year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see where y'all are headed 4 with this thing. 5 MS. BOLIN: Just for this year. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to wait until Jon gets 7 back? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's fine. That's 9 fine with me; I don't care. I couldn't care less. It makes 10 no difference. Let me read Number 8 again. So, we -- what 11 we'll do is basically delete that holiday? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that would be one solution. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And that would 14 change -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That would solve everything. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That takes care of Number 17 8, if you do Number 9. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You have to delete the holiday under 19 Number 9 in order to take care of Number 8 that way. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you call Number 9? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I called them both. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we delete the 23 holiday that's on March the 2nd, God bless Texas day. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 25 second? 11-23-09 144 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the motion is for -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For this year only. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for this year only. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, we set the holidays 7 annually anyway. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That is true. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or 10 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 11 signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Solves the 16 problem. 17 MS. BOLIN: Thank you, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two birds with one stone. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other adjustments to the 20 2009-2010 Kerr County holiday schedule? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Were there any other holidays 22 during that time that are state holidays that you would 23 substitute that one with? Or are you just going to totally 24 do away with one? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Totally do -- we just 11-23-09 145 1 totally did away with one. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, with that motion, you 3 know, you can adjust it under Number 9, if you wanted to give 4 the employees back that holiday. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We could. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And do another one that's a 7 state holiday where you got post office and banks closed 8 anyhow. You still have the -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other business under agenda item 10 Number 9? Hearing none, we'll move on. We will go to Item 11 16; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 12 contract with Dietert Center; allow the County Judge to sign 13 the same. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 18 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 17, 23 we'll pass on. Peter Lewis, the architect, said he had 24 nothing specific, other than he's continuing to work on the 25 site plan with the City and starting to get the final 11-23-09 146 1 construction plans pulled together. He hopes to have 2 something for us next month on a schedule on moving forward. 3 Let's go back to Item 15 that we called earlier; consider, 4 discuss, take appropriate action to award the new county 5 courthouse telephone system contract and authorize County 6 Judge to sign the same. Mr. Trolinger. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Good afternoon, Judge. We have 8 four bidders, and since I did not put in the backup the -- 9 the information or the numbers on the bidders, I think it's 10 appropriate to go ahead and -- and call that out now in the 11 record. We had four bidders. Hill Country Telephone 12 Cooperative came in at what we calculate as $97,648. The 13 option they had to save a little bit of money, save $10,000, 14 brought them down to 89,048. So, they -- each of the bidders 15 provided us with two options, but Hill Country Telephone had 16 one that saved a -- might have saved a little bit, so I 17 wanted to make sure that was clear. Another bidder, 4ip 18 company out of Fredericksburg -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4 ID? 20 MR. TROLINGER: 4ip. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, 4ip. 22 MR. TROLINGER: The number 4 and the letter "i" and 23 the letter "p." 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 4ip. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Came in at $357,864. 11-23-09 147 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. That must have been 2 gold-plated telephones. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Carousel Industries out of Exeter, 4 Rhode Island, but a national company, bid and came in at 5 86,233. The last bidder was Computer Plus, and they came in 6 at $44,665.13. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Forty-four what? 8 MR. TROLINGER: 44,665.13. I'd like to thank my 9 I.T. specialist, Bruce Motheral, for putting this together. 10 He spent quite a lot of time analyzing each of these bids, 11 actually putting it together to start with, and trying to 12 determine who had the best package and, line item for line 13 item, actually comparing this, even though the -- the price 14 disparity's there. We selected Computer Plus based on the 15 low price, obviously, but all of the requirements, everything 16 and more that we specified in the bid, is -- is available 17 from Computer Plus. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And included within their bid? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Included within the bid. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the service in one of 22 the requirements? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 25 MR. TROLINGER: The annual cost for service from 11-23-09 148 1 Computer Plus -- two factors there. The annual renewal of 2 the contract, the licensing, the system that Computer Plus 3 proposed is an initial license at $4,500, with no annual 4 renewal, which is different from all the others. The others 5 had an annual renewal cost. And then the actual 6 maintenance -- I know we received a quote, and I don't recall 7 the number. 8 MR. MOTHERAL: I don't have it. 9 MR. TROLINGER: We don't have it in front of us. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many units are we 11 proposing to replace? 12 MR. TROLINGER: The handsets? 125. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many? 14 MR. TROLINGER: 125. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In just the courthouse 16 setting, or throughout our system? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Courthouse -- courthouse only is 18 the base bid that this covers. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What about add-ons for satellite 20 offices? We're talking about Road and Bridge, Animal 21 Control, annex -- 22 MR. TROLINGER: 216th Adult Probation. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Detention. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Detention. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, all those came into play -- 11-23-09 149 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ag Barn. 2 MR. TROLINGER: -- in considering the system, 3 because we want to be able to easily expand, and the 3CX 4 system that Computer Plus proposed is easily expandable, and 5 has a similar cost structure, as in, you know, we're looking 6 at 44,000 versus 86,000, the nearest bidder. Well, to expand 7 the system, we continue on with that same ratio. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Percentage-wise, it's comparable -- 9 comparably priced, then? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- I'm sorry. Go 12 ahead, Judge. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mercy. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- what about the 15 new law enforcement annex? Was it -- is it included? 16 MR. TROLINGER: It is not. But if need be, we can 17 expand and add that building onto this system. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What will they do? I 19 mean -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think right now we're going 21 to have to go with the -- an add-on to the current contract 22 we have, because if you're moving offices and office 23 personnel out there, you really still need the intercom 24 system; you need all that going back and forth, okay? So, 25 whatever we do -- and I don't remember when our contract is 11-23-09 150 1 up out there. The Judge may. You know, I think we need to 2 do it all at one time. If we change over, change it over 3 then. Not get two different systems operating out there. 4 MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff's Office system was 5 recently expanded under another contract. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is strictly 7 courthouse only, no -- no satellite anything? 8 MR. TROLINGER: This bid only includes the 9 courthouse and base system, correct, with the capability to 10 expand. For instance, if we want to add the Ingram annex and 11 drop their phone system, we could probably do that. We'd 12 have to make some arrangements -- for instance, we need some 13 more bandwidth, but it would be possible to do that. Now, a 14 more likely scenario is that J.P. 2 that's over at the 15 Sheriff's Office is -- is on the Sheriff's phone switch, and 16 they pay a premium rate, business line rate. We could take 17 -- take those two or three phone lines and fax line, put this 18 -- put them on this system as it is today. We could add 19 those to this system with just the cost of the handsets only. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we do that with all of 21 the outliers that we have? 22 MR. TROLINGER: To some extent. It depends on the 23 existing lines and the bandwidth that we've got available 24 through the network, because this can be both a traditional 25 telephone system where we bring copper wire in and connect 11-23-09 151 1 telephones to it, connect the telephone system to it, or we 2 can run this across the computer network and connect the 3 phones to it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the proposal? 5 MR. TROLINGER: The -- there is no specific 6 proposal to do that. The -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would be your 8 recommendation? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it depends. Animal Control, 10 with two phones, we'd probably connect them directly through 11 the computer network. If their system goes down, we can pick 12 up -- they can pick up a cell phone as a backup. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we expanding the number 14 of lines that we have access to so that we have a -- a better 15 system balance here? 16 MR. TROLINGER: No. The incoming and outgoing 17 lines will stay the same as initially. The actual service 18 that we get from the -- from Windstream will not change. 19 We're still -- we'll still have lines coming in and lines 20 coming out from Windstream. We're just going to connect a 21 new telephone system to that. We have the option, once that 22 system's online, to get services from other companies or to 23 expand that service. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What kind of security is 25 there by putting this phone system into and across our 11-23-09 152 1 computer lines? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Well, that's a good question. And 3 one of the reasons we like this 3CX and the Computer Plus 4 proposal was that they're going to actually run wire to each 5 one of the telephone handsets. It's not going to be on the 6 same network as the computers are here in the courthouse. 7 It'll be a separate network, so it's pretty darned good as 8 far as the courthouse goes. Once we start -- if we wanted to 9 add -- for instance, if we wanted to add Animal Control, it's 10 a secured network connection, but it wouldn't on the computer 11 network. So, there -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's not a security 13 problem? 14 MR. TROLINGER: I don't feel that there is. 15 Especially at the courthouse, there is none. It's the same 16 as today. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, you had a question? 18 MS. HARGIS: If we're not expanding our phone line 19 capabilities, why are we doing this? That's why I thought we 20 were doing this, is so -- we're out of phone lines. 21 MR. TROLINGER: Oh, the number. Okay. Two 22 different things. Number of -- number of handsets we have 23 are 125. To be able to add on, to be able to put another 24 telephone, say, here in the Commissioners Courtroom on the 25 existing system right now, we could not do that without 11-23-09 153 1 buying additional hardware, replacing the system, et cetera. 2 The number of outside lines is what I thought you had asked 3 about. Number of outside lines, we're not changing the 4 service that comes in and out. 5 MS. HARGIS: We only have two major lines coming in 6 now. 7 MR. TROLINGER: Right. Well, the major -- we've 8 got seven in and out right now. But if we want to add 9 handsets, we can do that to our heart's content with the new 10 system. I believe the only thing to -- only limit that we 11 have are the actual number of simultaneous phone calls, which 12 are 65 -- is that right, Bruce? Sixty-five simultaneous 13 calls? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: John, with -- with the Sheriff's 15 Office being under a separate contract, tell me about the 16 compatibility with this proposal from Computer Plus, and that 17 equipment and that methodology relative to the Sheriff's 18 Office. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Same situation as the courthouse. 20 We'll have to replace the handsets. And there's really no 21 compatibility. It's a replacement system. In other words, 22 we could not go in and just connect up two modules and have 23 the Sheriff's Office system online. It would require 24 replacing the telephones and the telephone switch. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, there's not compatibility 11-23-09 154 1 between the two? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. And -- is that right, 3 Bruce? There wouldn't be on any of the four bidders. 4 MR. MOTHERAL: That's correct. 5 MR. TROLINGER: And none of the bidders have that 6 capability. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it occurs to me, we need to be 8 looking at what the Sheriff's got out there and how quickly 9 we can make a change there, too. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Because if we do the new building 12 out there, it's obviously got to be compatible with his 13 existing system. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And that'll be a new contract or an 16 add-on to his contract, and that's going to further delay us 17 and further separate us at the same time communications-wise, 18 wouldn't it? Are you understanding what I'm -- 19 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I understand. I understand 20 exactly where you're going with it. And the one option that 21 I explored was that the Adult Probation office could -- could 22 easily be added to the new system. But the Sheriff, in order 23 to maintain his -- his interoperability with his dispatchers 24 and the rest of his office, he'd have to just expand the 25 existing. 11-23-09 155 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I'm curious 2 about, how -- and this is just a question. How would it 3 change -- where we stay on Windstream and the County goes to 4 this one, since we're in separate locations anyhow, how would 5 it change anything that we have right now? I can't call an 6 intercom number and call over to here, okay? Never have been 7 able to. You have to dial a number just like I would from my 8 house calling here, and there's no difference in that, nor 9 would there necessarily be any difference. Is there? I 10 mean, what -- what are we really doing, is what I'm wondering 11 on that. True, later, 'cause we even experience it now at 12 times, on the real busy days, to where we don't have three 13 lines, you got 65 simultaneous calls. It can -- it can -- if 14 you add us to it, you're going to have to expand a lot, 15 because there are some -- a lot of phone calls coming and 16 going out at one time out of our office. I just don't know 17 where the advantage would be, whether Probation, us, or 18 whoever out at that location, being on what you have here is 19 going to really benefit. I don't think it's going to change 20 anything. You still have to dial a phone number to get here. 21 You're just changing equipment. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you're already 23 operating under a contract you just extended, right? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to be a while 11-23-09 156 1 before we can even get out of that contract. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't remember how long that 3 contract was for, if it was a 2- or a 5-year contract when 4 they did the expansion, but it's been a couple of years. 5 Probably not all that long, in reality. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's it with, Rusty? 7 Windstream? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Windstream, yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We have -- the problem was, 10 he had to get additional lines. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because I could not -- we were 12 -- people weren't even able to call in to dispatch at times, 13 because we didn't have enough lines coming in. They were 14 getting busy signals. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to put 16 Rusty on the computer program, 'cause -- you know, give him 17 an opportunity to have a phone call drop off every once in a 18 while; give him something to whine about. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have that already. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, do you? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If he's talking bandwidth, it 22 gets major when you're going from here to my office. We 23 already have that problem with the computer system. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I thought you said he already 25 had the problem of him having something to whine about. I 11-23-09 157 1 already knew that, Commissioner. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can always find something to 3 whine about. You gentlemen know that. 4 MR. TROLINGER: Well, without going into too much 5 detail, long-term, and even short-term wise, we've deployed 6 an instant messenger program that allows us to interface to 7 the new telephone system, and deploying that at the Sheriff's 8 Office at every workstation, I can load it on. So, we'll see 9 how it works. But the capability's there to connect to the 10 courthouse telephone system through that -- through the 11 computer, basically. And that's my short-term -- that's my 12 short-term interoperability unified communications plan. 13 We'll see how it works out. But the first expansion of this 14 base system that we're installing, I anticipate the 216th 15 Adult Probation would be the first candidate. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. TROLINGER: Followed by the -- or in 18 conjunction with the J.P. 2 office at the Sheriff's Office. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who'll make a motion? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm waiting for a 21 recommendation. You are recommending that the bid be awarded 22 to Computer Plus? 23 MR. TROLINGER: To Computer Plus for the 3CX 24 system, as proposed. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we accept 11-23-09 158 1 the recommendation of the I.T. -- the Information Technology 2 Department and award the bid to Computer Plus. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 5 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just curious; what is 13 the disparity between the bid we just awarded and $357,000 14 worth of phones? Gold-plated or what? 15 MR. TROLINGER: It's -- the system had every bell 16 and whistle and the newest and fastest technology. For 17 instance, one of the things in the proposal was 10 gigabit 18 network connections for the equipment. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's pretty big, huh? 20 MR. TROLINGER: And we need 100 -- we need 21 something that's a factor of 10,000 less. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just curious. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They were a little too close 24 to Washington. (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the one that we just 11-23-09 159 1 approved has some homing pigeons involved in it? 2 MR. TROLINGER: No, it's the latest technology, and 3 it -- the advantage of what they're doing is, they're putting 4 in a separate computer network in lieu of trying to operate 5 on our high-speed computer network. It lets them purchase 6 the state-of-art equipment, but it's just not as much as -- 7 as the faster speed network. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not two tin cans and 9 wax string, right? 10 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On Item 18, is that something 13 that we're going to be able to do in open, as opposed to 14 executive? I'm trying to figure out how the executive would 15 come into play on that, but maybe I'm -- I don't understand 16 everything I need to know about it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not mine, Judge. 18 MR. TROLINGER: I'd like to use open session as 19 much as possible. If we have to start discussing 20 personnel, -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call Item 18, to discuss the 22 Court Compliance iPlow software project. 23 MR. TROLINGER: I received a letter on 24 November 12th from Commissioner Baldwin, and I wanted to make 25 sure that the Court was aware. And I responded, and it was a 11-23-09 160 1 good opportunity to update y'all on the iPlow, I'm calling it 2 now, versus Odyssey program. Now, I sent a formal response 3 in writing, but I wanted to make sure that I understood that 4 the Court had last ordered that we -- that the policy for the 5 Court Compliance office be completed before we carried on any 6 further with the -- with the software project. That was my 7 understanding. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, we just got -- I don't know, 9 latter part of last week, as I recall, a draft policy on 10 Court Compliance. Is that not correct? 11 MS. UECKER: Right, on the 19th. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And that's a draft, a 13 proposal. Of course, the major players in it are going to be 14 the fee officers, you and Jannett, and the Court Compliance 15 Department that drafted the policy. And then, of course, 16 John gets involved in it by virtue of the software issues 17 involved. But my recollection of looking at that thing, it 18 was a pretty extensive document, and have y'all had an 19 opportunity to review that and comment on it? 20 MS. UECKER: I'm -- I've made lots of comments on 21 it, and Jannett and I are going to get together this 22 afternoon and look at it together, you know, and see what 23 recommendations we might want to make. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. UECKER: We haven't had that opportunity today. 11-23-09 161 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Almost needs to be a separate 2 issue. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah, it is. But as 4 Mr. Trolinger said, I think the last time we had the issue of 5 some new software, or the issue of new software before us at 6 the Court Compliance, my recollection also was it was left 7 at that we address the -- the Court Compliance policy first, 8 get that nailed down, then move forward from there. And I 9 don't think I'm mistaken. Some of the others may -- 10 MS. UECKER: That's the way I understood it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Others may have other recollection. 12 Anybody else think differently on that? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: So, other than John's report to the 15 inquiry, what else do we need to do on the agenda item today? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not my agenda item. 17 It's John's agenda item. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm just looking for anybody 19 to -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I'm just -- I'm here to 21 answer any questions, if y'all have any questions about the 22 project. We're waiting for the policy, and that's where it 23 stood. Now, I had already started the process, and now it's 24 scheduled to -- to have the Tyler Technologies people on-site 25 to help us again with the Court Compliance, with the setup 11-23-09 162 1 and configuration. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Are they currently scheduled to 3 specifically be here again at any particular time? 4 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, November 30th through 5 December 2nd. 6 MS. UECKER: When are they coming? I'm sorry. 7 MR. TROLINGER: November 30th. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Next Monday. 9 MR. TROLINGER: Probably through the 2nd of 10 December. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From what I see in your 12 letter regarding the iPlow issue, it doesn't seem like that 13 iPlow is going to be an issue. It's going to need to be 14 addressed before we have -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: I agree. The more I look at it, 16 the less sense it makes to try to have a separate program. 17 But, you know, it does in some respects depend on the policy. 18 You know, if the -- for instance, you know, if the payment 19 plans need to be done a certain way and we cannot do it with 20 Odyssey, then we may need to use this other program. But 21 right now, that's not what I'm seeing. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why cannot it be done with 23 Odyssey, and what would be required to make it happen with 24 Odyssey? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Well, that's the question. I can't 11-23-09 163 1 find a reason to not use Odyssey for the payment plans. 2 MS. PIEPER: The payment plans are being put into 3 Odyssey now. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, wherein lies the 5 problem? 6 MS. PIEPER: I have no idea. Somewhere with the 7 Collections Department. 8 MS. UECKER: Based on what I've read of the policy, 9 I don't see any requirements in there that would -- that are 10 any different than what Odyssey is capable of. Based on what 11 I'm seeing -- and I've just got a preliminary reading of the 12 policy; I've made a few notes -- my question would be, you 13 know, what's our timeline? At what time do we have to get 14 the new recommendations, and are we supposed to get with the 15 Compliance Department and then bring it -- bring our separate 16 issues to the Court for approval, or how are we going to do 17 this? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think the Court will 19 ultimately have to adopt the policy, but I -- what I see as 20 the process is that, ultimately, the Compliance Department 21 will bring it to the Court for adoption, because it's their 22 policy, obviously. But to the extent that the two of y'all, 23 or anybody else, wants input, certainly get that input with 24 the Compliance Department now. Then when it comes before the 25 Court, if your concerns aren't addressed to the extent you 11-23-09 164 1 feel like they need to be, well, then you can weigh in at 2 that time also. 3 MS. UECKER: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that make sense? 5 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I have requested an electronic 6 copy of the policy from Terry so that I can make my notes on 7 the policy, and the changes, and resubmit them back to her. 8 Or Jannett and I -- we're going to meet this afternoon. 9 But -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. UECKER: -- as long as I understand that's how 12 you want to do it. You want us to submit our changes to 13 Compliance? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Does anybody else see it differently 15 up here? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're exactly right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, that's the Compliance 18 policy, and they -- 19 MS. UECKER: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Compliance is the one that 21 legitimately should bring it to the Court, as a department 22 under the Court, to -- to approve, and to get your input now, 23 and later if need be. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let's get back to the 25 agenda item here. I think -- I remember it as well that we 11-23-09 165 1 were going to lay the iPlow thing down until the policy had 2 been dealt with. I agree with all that. But I think -- I 3 think that what they are thinking is that we're laying iPlow 4 down totally, completely; that we -- John says that Odyssey 5 can do everything that we want done, that this department 6 needs to do all of their work, and so that's where we are. 7 So, we need to get Odyssey -- we need to get our people 8 trained to understand what Odyssey does, or get Odyssey fixed 9 so it'll work in there. I don't know what the problem is. 10 There's a problem there somewhere, and it's either the 11 training -- we haven't -- we didn't pay attention in 12 training, maybe; I'll take that side of it, or there is a 13 glitch in Odyssey that doesn't -- it doesn't work. John says 14 that Odyssey works, and it should work in there. And, so, 15 what I'm saying is, John, get it working. 16 MR. TROLINGER: And both clerks tell me that it's 17 working. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's fine. Get down 19 there and get the damn thing going. It's that simple. Isn't 20 it? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Well, my point here -- and that's 22 what -- how I responded in writing -- is this is our third 23 time we're going around with the Compliance office to -- to 24 get them to adopt and use Odyssey for -- for their function. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only one -- that's the 11-23-09 166 1 only one they got, isn't it? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Yes -- well, they're using a 3 spreadsheet. They're using an Excel spreadsheet that they're 4 doing some manual work. They're bouncing back and forth. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you in a position to do training 6 down there, John, with the people in Compliance to show them 7 how Odyssey will do the things that they need to do in the 8 operation of their department? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Well, that's why -- that's why 10 Tyler Technologies is going to be here next week. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. They have training -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: To make sure -- these are the 13 people that can see what all the other counties do, and 14 they've got the background knowledge of big -- they've got 15 the big picture. I've got kind of a macro view of what we 16 want to do here in Kerr County, and so does the Compliance 17 office. And, you know, maybe they can bring some things in 18 and say, "Hey, if you -- you know, if you do it this way, 19 this is how it's supposed to work." Now, I understand that, 20 you know, there are 254 counties and 258 different ways of 21 doing things, but we want to -- to some extent, you know, we 22 want to do the same that other counties do. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what your goal is, is that when 24 Tyler comes in here the last week of November, first part of 25 December, to do their training specifically as to the 11-23-09 167 1 collections issues, that after that module is complete, 2 there'll be a complete understanding of what Odyssey is 3 currently capable of doing in that sense, the collection 4 sense? 5 MR. TROLINGER: And configuring it to do exactly 6 what the policy dictates. You know, if we take payments and 7 need to apply them in a certain way, then the system just 8 needs to be configured. It's complex, the financial system, 9 the configuration. But we're going to have the expert that 10 can make those changes, and I expect once they leave, that 11 those changes will be made and they'll be up and running. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're kind of in a holding 13 pattern for two reasons; one is the policy, and two is the 14 training? 15 (Mr. Trolinger nodded.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If the training doesn't -- 18 doesn't meet the satisfaction of the Compliance office, maybe 19 we have a different problem than -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- software. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But we won't know that until after 23 the fact. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 25 MR. TROLINGER: And that -- you know, that's really 11-23-09 168 1 embracing and implementing what -- what Software Group or 2 Tyler Technologies brings to us. It's very important to do 3 that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on that agenda 5 item? Any more questions? Okay, let's move on. Have we hit 6 all the agenda items? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I believe so. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any of them we missed? Okay. Let's 9 go to Section 4 of the agenda, payment of the bills. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a couple of 11 questions, Judge. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I do too. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 1, Commissioners 14 Court. Frigerio? Is that your lawyer out at the -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he does that. Okay. 17 And then Page 3. I got this far, and I bogged down. 18 Three-quarters of the way down, 216th District Court, Kerr 19 County Treasurer. You know, first of all, I don't recall 20 ever seeing it laid out quite like this. Is this a district 21 court or is this the Treasurer's? 22 MS. HARGIS: This is the -- I believe this is the 23 district court. It -- a check's being made to the Treasurer. 24 What we're doing -- I had to think a minute, 'cause I was -- 25 I was out with a medical test on Friday. We used to just 11-23-09 169 1 take a journal entry for the budget and move it from -- like 2 when we do the 216th Court and the 198th Court; we pay a 3 portion based on our county. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 5 MS. HARGIS: And we would -- we would just journal 6 that, you know, and -- but we've decided to give the auditors 7 a better trail. We're actually going to write a check on 8 ourselves to ourselves, basically. It's basically what we're 9 doing. But it gives us a clearer trail of the -- of our 10 portion coming in. In other words, we get a check from 11 Kendall County, we get a check from Bandera, and we get one 12 from Gillespie, and this is Kerr County's check to pay our 13 portion that you budgeted in -- in the general fund. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: That's all it is. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a little bit 17 different. I have no problem with that at all. 18 MS. HARGIS: It's just really a -- Mindy and I 19 decided -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's really better to do it 21 that way. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Inside that, though, listen 24 -- take a look at those numbers. As an example, the court 25 reporter, $9,128. 11-23-09 170 1 MS. HARGIS: It's a quarter. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that for a year? 3 MS. HARGIS: It's three months. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three months. 5 MS. HARGIS: Those are all three months. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everything is three months? 7 MS. HARGIS: We pay the court -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else have we changed? 9 MS. HARGIS: Nothing. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three months, and we pay 11 ourselves. 12 MS. HARGIS: It's a quarterly check. It's going to 13 appear on a quarterly basis. The other counties pay us 14 quarterly; we're paying ourselves quarterly. She's the only 15 employee up there that we pay almost 100 percent of. The 16 rest of them we share, some of them four ways, some of 17 them -- Bruce can tell you that -- some of them five ways. 18 So, Becky's salary is actually eight -- eight different ways. 19 So, you know, the other salaries are less, because there's a 20 bigger proportionate share with the other counties. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The court reporter, we pay 22 almost all of it? 23 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's -- that includes 25 Gillespie County, Kendall County, and Bandera County? Why do 11-23-09 171 1 we pay most of it? 2 MS. HARGIS: I don't know what she does, so you've 3 got me at a loss. All I know is we pay the bigger share of 4 hers. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The bigger share. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm confused. I want to 7 jump in just behind the commissioner and not interrupt him. 8 MS. HARGIS: Let me back up, because I may be 9 wrong. Her salary is the largest salary up there, and Bruce 10 can attest to this. So, it's probably -- I mean, if you take 11 90,000 and you divide it by four, and then you divide it 12 by -- you know, it's a pretty big chunk. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the salary line 14 item? 15 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. She makes close to $90,000. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the bottom is 198th 17 District Court, and that court reporter's is 14,000. Is that 18 also three months? 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, you have to remember, we pay the 20 largest share of the 198th, because we're the biggest county. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand that. 22 MS. HARGIS: So, that's -- $14,000 is a lot of 23 money. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that three months? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it's three months. 11-23-09 172 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God almighty. 2 MS. HARGIS: That's what we have budgeted in the 3 line item. That's what you've seen in the detail. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I appreciate your 5 explanation. I just -- I haven't seen it laid out like this. 6 I wasn't sure what I was seeing. 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, and that -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got that far and I choked 9 up on my steak last night. 10 MS. HARGIS: The reason that I'm doing this is so 11 that you can see, so that there's transparency for you to see 12 exactly what we're transferring. Because a lot of times when 13 we're doing the budget, you see lump figures, and this way 14 you're actually able to see what you're actually paying out. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know if I 16 agree with that. I'm not going to argue with you. Fine. 17 That's great. Thank you for doing that. However, see, to 18 me -- to me, lumping in three months at a time confuses 19 things, to me. 20 MS. HARGIS: We can do it monthly; we can do it 21 however you want. It's just -- we just felt it was easier 22 for us to do it on a quarterly basis. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When I see 14,000, I'm 24 thinking -- you know, it makes me ask all these questions. 25 MS. HARGIS: Well, perhaps -- why don't you let me 11-23-09 173 1 send you the spreadsheet of their salaries and the breakdowns 2 to each one of you, and then you can allocate -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that would be helpful if we 4 had that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be helpful. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool and groovy. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question. 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you done? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I am. At this time. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 2, Jeannie. 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under Nondepartmental. 14 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: T.C.E.Q., and the 16 description is for county water rights. It's a lot of money. 17 I'm just curious what that is. 18 MS. HARGIS: We have -- you know, I'm -- because I 19 wasn't here on Friday, I'm going to stick my foot in my 20 mouth, so I'm going to wait. I think I know what it is, but 21 I'm not sure. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do. 23 MS. HARGIS: Go ahead. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we have to pay 25 for our annual pumping permit. 11-23-09 174 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have a certain amount of 3 water rights that we have, and I believe that's for Road and 4 Bridge. 5 MS. HARGIS: It is. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 7 MS. HARGIS: That's what I thought it was. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For them to be able to pump 9 out of the river, creek, or wherever. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cool. Thank you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, that's right, when they're out 12 on various roads. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's an annual permit. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Without having to haul it all 15 the way from the plant. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes sense. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? You got any 18 questions for her? Page 2, the first category, civil 19 attorney. Just a matter of information. On the same case, 20 if you'll accumulate those numbers just for this reporting 21 period, it's approximately $49,100. One case. 22 MS. HARGIS: That's that C.P.S. case. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That doesn't include a lot that had 24 already been paid. One case. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you walk through that 11-23-09 175 1 with me? What do you mean? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. Okay. You'll see a 3 payment there to Pattillo, Richards, and Harpold, 10,900, 4 approximately. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Cause number's 08-539B. You come 7 down to Korkus, the first one, same case number, 1,300. Then 8 come on down again to that same individual, same case number, 9 539B, 12,5. Then you come on down, under Robert Earl 10 Henneke, same case number, 539B, 10,7. And then the last 11 line, Robert Falkenberg, same case number, 13,760. That 12 accumulates to be $49,100, approximately. 13 MS. HARGIS: That's that big C.P.S. case that -- 14 that Rex made us aware of back about two months ago. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The one that lasted a few 16 weeks with Judge Sherrill and all that? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That was one of three. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. This is not Judge 19 Sherrill's -- 20 MS. HARGIS: I think Judge Sherrill did them all. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, he did them all? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 23 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. There were three consecutive 24 cases. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Has he done the third one? 11-23-09 176 1 MS. HARGIS: I don't think he's done the third one. 2 This is just the second one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: One more to go. But the second two 4 are shorter than the first, you'll be happy to know. I 5 thought surely you would have caught that, Commissioner. 6 Payments to lawyers? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not seeing that. I love 8 this stuff; this is good. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the bills. 11 Do we have already have a motion? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second to pay 14 the bills. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by 15 raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. No budget 20 amendments? 21 MS. HARGIS: No budget amendments. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: No late bills? 23 MS. HARGIS: No late bills. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been presented with 25 monthly reports from Justice of the Peace Precinct 4, 11-23-09 177 1 District Clerk, Justice of the Peace Precinct 1, Justice of 2 the Peace Precinct 2, and Road and Bridge. Do I hear a 3 motion that these reports be approved as presented? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 7 indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or 8 discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right 9 hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay, we 14 will go to any reports from Commissioners in connection with 15 their liaison or committee assignments. Commissioner 16 Baldwin? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a second, Judge. 20 We're still having difficulties in working out the easements 21 to take care of those eight properties on Ranchero Road, on 22 the south side of the road. We've examined with the city 23 folk, and they were out there with us, and we've had some 24 interesting comments as to whether or not we could do a line 25 on the Ranchero Road side, and we've determined that's -- 11-23-09 178 1 while it is possible, it is not practical to do that. So, 2 I'm talking to Ms. Bailey about how we might proceed on this, 3 and we're going to see if we can get back with the owner of 4 Oak Grove Mobile Home Park and -- and see if we can resolve 5 that with another modified proposal for acquiring lateral 6 easements that will take us from those homes to a pipe that 7 runs through Meadow Woods Drive. So, it's been a long 8 process, and we're not quite there yet. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Glad you got the patience to do 10 that, Commissioner. I'm not sure I would. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mine may be running out. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only thing I mentioned the 15 other day, I think to Bill, was that this -- this CCN thing 16 with the City, how's that going to impact the proposed 17 wastewater system going to Center Point if that CCN were to 18 overlap? Which I think it does. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it seemed to me that 20 the map, Commissioner, carved out the existing CCN holders in 21 Center Point, which it will have to have done. And there are 22 at least three systems owned by the IO -- whatever, IOW. And 23 so the water part of that equation seems to be in the hands 24 of the people who are serving the territory right now. 25 Secondly, unless I missed something in the application, it 11-23-09 179 1 doesn't apply to sewer. They have not opted to do some 2 sewer, so as far as I can tell, we should be able to proceed. 3 Not to suggest that we're not going to have some water -- 4 water-related issues later that we have to deal with, but I 5 don't think it's particularly related to the CCN application. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Just a thought. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless I missed something. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't really anything have 9 anything else. I think we covered the positive part this 10 morning with Environmental Health. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure did. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Getting recognition. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any elected officials, department 14 heads have any reports? Yes, ma'am? 15 MS. HARGIS: Rusty said I can go first. With 16 regard to Ray this morning, I missed his award. They've done 17 a great job. But in connection with that, Ray came by and 18 visited with me. As y'all recall, we got $14,000 to repair 19 -- or to add on those folks that we weren't able to connect, 20 and we've done a great job and he's done a great job. And 21 the plumbing company -- I can't remember their name -- has 22 given us a really good deal on the taps. We still have one 23 remaining, and because it's a health hazard -- it will be 24 over the 14,000. It'll be an additional $1,000. And so I 25 would like to put on the agenda for the Court to consider 11-23-09 180 1 that one, because it is a health hazard, just the one that we 2 have left. They got 14 of them done; they still have one 3 left -- one person left. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought I read that 5 memorandum; probably Commissioner Oehler did too, from Ray, 6 and I thought I understood that only about 10,5 of that 14 7 has been obligated so far. Is that correct? 8 MS. HARGIS: No, it's all -- he's got all of it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All the 14's been 10 obligated? 11 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, to correct the 13 last of the environmental issues there, it's going to require 14 another $1,000? 15 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would that be for, 17 tank mitigation or what? 18 MS. HARGIS: There's just one more person to add 19 on. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more person to add on, 21 okay. So, have we done a budget amendment to accept the 22 14,000? 23 MS. HARGIS: Well, the budget was 14 because that's 24 what we received as a grant. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 11-23-09 181 1 MS. HARGIS: I haven't done a budget amendment on 2 the other thousand, 'cause I just wanted to inform you first, 3 before -- I mean, I feel like, since it's a health and safety 4 issue, that we probably wanted to go ahead with it. I just 5 want to make the Court aware of it so that when I bring you 6 the budget amendments, you'll know what it's for. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 MS. HARGIS: If that's all right with the Court. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm cool with it. 10 MS. HARGIS: I don't think Ray would recommend it 11 and come to talk to me about it if -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some things need to be 13 cleaned up down there, so if it takes $1,000 -- 14 MS. HARGIS: He's done an excellent job. They 15 originally -- $1,000 per tap is what he ended up with, which 16 is really about 400 shy of what it should have been. So, not 17 only did they do a great job of inspecting and getting them 18 done, but he got them to give us a price that was phenomenal. 19 So, they would -- they would like to do this last one, 20 because they feel like it's a health hazard. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. Needs to be done. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're going to get with Ray and 23 y'all are going to jointly bring that back to us? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes. I just wanted to let y'all know, 25 okay? Thanks. 11-23-09 182 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other elected official? 2 Department -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's been up here all day. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think that because of 5 the jail situation and the dockets and all the rest of that, 6 that each -- at the end of each Commissioners Court, I'd just 7 like to, if y'all don't mind, give y'all an update. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I think you should. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will if you want it. 10 Currently, as of 8:00 -- 9 o'clock this morning, we have 11 total custody -- custody of 162. In-house is 158. We have 12 32 waiting trial or court dispositions in the 216th, 24 in 13 the 198th, 26 in County Court at Law. Some of these have 14 overlapping cases, too. We have 15 sentenced to the jail to 15 serve time. I have 11 with immigration holds placed on them, 16 25 sentenced to T.D.C. waiting for transports, waiting for 17 hotel arrangements, I guess, or, you know, occupancy, as they 18 want to call them or whatever. Thirteen in there with parole 19 violations, which, to me, are the same thing as T.D.C., 20 'cause we can't do anything with them; they've got to wait 21 for T.D.C. too. Eighteen Gillespie County inmates, and then 22 we currently have one inmate that's waiting extradition back 23 to the state of Indiana. And we have inmates with holds out 24 of the following Texas counties: Nueces, Travis, Montague, 25 Winkler, Kimble, Hidalgo, Ward, Bandera, Taylor, Fort Bend, 11-23-09 183 1 Brown, Dallas, Rockwall, and Lubbock. So, we're very 2 diversified across the state where we have people that come 3 from. The other thing that I do think you need to know, I 4 think this is the most the Kerr County jail has ever held at 5 one time. We have four people in there currently with murder 6 charges, and we have one additional one that's one of the 7 parole violations that is a murderer, an agg. assault on a 8 peace officer, taking weapons from a peace officer. Even 9 Parole has notified us that he's an extremely dangerous 10 person. So, the jail is on high security issues and 11 everything else with that type of inmates running in there, 12 and with our population running the way it is. Just an 13 update. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, the -- the murder guy 15 from Mexico, how -- I remember in years past, the 16 difficulties that you had getting them out of Mexico, back in 17 -- back into here. How long did it take to get this one? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the murder occurred in 19 '91. We had the federal warrant issued for him in 2005, and 20 we knew where he was at that time. Then started dealing 21 with -- not really the FBI so much as the Department of 22 Justice in Washington, Department of Justice and the 23 Department of International Affairs. Okay. And we dealt 24 with them until December the 2nd, 2008. Which a couple 25 months before that, Mexico went ahead and issued a warrant 11-23-09 184 1 for him in Mexico. December the 2nd, 2008, he was arrested 2 in Mexico, and he's been in Mexican prison ever since then, 3 not on any of their charges, just on ours. And at that 4 point, I had -- the Department paid for the transcription, if 5 you remember, all that where it had to all be transcribed, 6 sent to Mexico. Then Mexico had hearings on him to decide 7 whether they were going to try him there on our charges or 8 let him come back, or give him back to us. After those 9 hearings were done, they elected to give him back to us. 10 Then he had the right to appeal that decision in Mexico, and 11 he's appealed that, and it took from December the 2nd, 2008, 12 until the other day, and they just called out of the blue and 13 landed at Houston airport with him. Then we had to go 14 through a whole bunch of our stuff, 'cause now he's an 15 illegal alien coming into the United States without 16 paperwork. So, we didn't even expect all that, you know, 17 that we had to deal with on faxing warrants to the 18 immigration office at the Houston airport just to get him 19 through customs. And so it's been a -- it's been a very 20 interesting experience to go through trying to get one back 21 from Mexico. But, for the family's sake on this, by golly, 22 they gave him back. Now we can see what our justice system 23 can do. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the death penalty is on 25 the table? 11-23-09 185 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, this case would not have 2 ever been eligible for the death penalty. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It was never a capital murder 5 case. It was family violence, a murder case. So, that's the 6 only reason we got it back. The other one we have down there 7 that has been transcribed into Spanish and given to them down 8 there is a capital murder case. Actually, we have two; one 9 more we hope to get back. But the murder case down there is 10 a capital murder case. If they ever elect him -- or arrest 11 him and decide to, he will never be brought back to the 12 United States; he will be tried in Mexico. And that's 13 already been -- the former D.A., Ron Sutton, his 14 investigator, Todd, and Ms. Coleman at that time have all 15 flown to Mexico. They went to Mexico City, met with the 16 Attorney General, their Justice Department, and all that has 17 been set to have the prosecutor. That's where you are. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster, you don't have any 19 more questions for him, do you? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not in any more -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When they flew to Mexico, 22 did they use the funds -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They didn't invite me. They 24 didn't invite me, so I didn't get to go on that one. So -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Did the spouses go? 11-23-09 186 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not answering that 2 question. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's really the question, 4 isn't it? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. Any other elected 6 officials? Department heads? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see one. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I just need to agenda these two; you 9 know, just put them on the agenda, the Sheriff and -- 10 MS. HYDE: I apologize for coming back late. We 11 were here early, but we were late coming in here. Did I 12 understand correctly that we've done away with one of the 13 13 holidays for this year? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You have a correct understanding of 15 what occurred earlier today. 16 MS. HYDE: Would there be any way to ask that 17 perhaps you look at doing like the State does and allow one 18 floating holiday for this year instead of doing away with a 19 holiday, if the holiday was taken somewhere between March 2nd 20 and August 2nd of 2010? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would you want to do 22 that? 23 MS. HYDE: Because the employees have already been 24 told that they get 13 days, and it was passed that way, and 25 we've already budgeted the money. So, I'm just asking if you 11-23-09 187 1 might consider that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff tried it earlier. He 4 didn't get a very good perception. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Maybe they like her better 6 than me. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you should take note of 8 that, Sheriff. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let's see what happens now. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm certainly in favor of 11 it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get a disguise, Rusty. 13 MS. HYDE: Is the Court, like, closed? Or are we 14 still open? Could you, like -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought about that earlier. 16 We really did promise them 13 days. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could call that agenda 18 item back up, couldn't you? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I can do that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you do that? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I can do that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Call that son of a gun back 23 up. Let's get up in there. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see if Rusty has any more 25 comments. 11-23-09 188 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't say nothing. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Can we get that commitment for the 3 next five Commissioners Court meetings? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How far does this floating 5 thing work? 6 MS. HYDE: I've yanked it, so -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call the agenda item. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to call Item 9; consider, 10 discuss, take appropriate action to adjust the 2009-2010 Kerr 11 County holiday schedule. Now, you had a question, 12 Commissioner? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did. I'm trying to figure 14 out how to get my birthday in; we'll take a holiday. 15 MS. HYDE: When is your birthday? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's in May. 17 MS. HYDE: What day? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Confidential information, 19 lady. 20 MS. HYDE: I can go look it up. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about a 22 personal day. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just kidding, anyway. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He can get his birthday? 25 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. That's what I'm saying. If 11-23-09 189 1 it's a floating holiday, if we allowed just the one time 2 between March 2nd -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could call it a 4 personal day. 5 MS. HYDE: We could call it a personal day. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Between what date and what 7 date? 8 MS. HYDE: March 2nd and August 2nd. That way 9 we're not, like, waiting till the end of the budget time for 10 everybody that wants to take it. We just have to make sure 11 that they take it. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I kind of like that idea. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you? I move we have a 14 personal -- personal -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Personal day. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- personal day for 17 employees any time between March the 2nd and August the 2nd. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For this one year only. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For this one year only. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second your motion. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 22 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor, indicate 23 by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11-23-09 190 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Sheriff, I would 3 suggest that you take note of the reception. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I see that every time I 5 come in here, Judge. It's just part of it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't even upset you any 7 more, does it? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more elected officials, 10 department heads have reports? Anybody else? We're 11 adjourned. 12 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 2:51 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-23-09 191 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of November, 8 2009. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-23-09