1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, December 28, 2009 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 2 1 I N D E X December 28, 2009 2 PAGE --- Commissioners' Comments 4 3 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 4 authorize and/or approve preliminary planning, evaluation, and other pre-construction activities 5 or procedures in connection with proposed Law Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation Building 5 6 1.2 Consider/discuss take appropriate action on 7 request to place a permanent building on the west side of the River Star Arts & Event Park 16 8 1.3 Public Hearing for raising the speed limit to 9 45 mph and adding 30 mph curve warning signs on Skyline Drive in Center Point, Precinct 2 25 10 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 approve raising the speed limit to 45 mph and installing two 45 mph speed limit signs, and 12 also installing two 30 mph curve warning signs on Skyline Drive in Center Point, Precinct 2 26 13 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 14 a public hearing concerning speed limit on Red Bird Loop, Precinct 2 27 15 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 16 approve contracts with Divide VFD and Kerr County Soil & Water Conservation District; 17 allow County Judge to sign same 29 18 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions on amendments/modifications to Kerr County Employees 19 prescription drug and insurance health plans 29 20 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to reopen/amend the FY 2008-09 Kerr County Budget 21 to pay bills received from Mountain Home VFD 66, 87 22 4.1 Pay Bills 76 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 82 23 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 24 Assignments 82 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 83 25 --- Adjourned 87 3 1 On Monday, December 28, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and 10 time, Monday, December the 28th, 2009, at 9 a.m. It's that 11 time now. And, presumably, this will be the last meeting of 12 the calendar year 2009 and this decade. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Always sad, isn't it? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. Please join me in 16 a word of prayer and the pledge of allegiance. 17 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 19 any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard 20 on a matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is your 21 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 22 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item that's listed on 23 the agenda, we'd ask that you fill out a participation form 24 located at the rear of the room. It's not essential that you 25 do that. It helps me to keep up with who wants to be heard 12-28-09 4 1 on agenda items. If we get to an agenda item and you haven't 2 filled out a participation form, get my attention in some 3 manner and I'll give you the opportunity to be heard. But at 4 this time, if there's any member of the public or audience 5 that wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a listed 6 agenda item, come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 7 Seeing no one coming forward, we'll move on. Commissioner 8 Oehler, what do you have for us this morning? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not a whole lot. Just had a 10 great Christmas season. I think we had a great -- the 11 greatest turnout for the annual Christmas luncheon for the 12 county, all the employees and department heads and elected 13 officials. It was well-attended, and -- and we're glad it's 14 over till another year. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have nothing today. 17 Excited about this meeting. Let's do it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just want to thank 21 Commissioner Oehler for the work he did on the Christmas 22 party, and to your wife Betsy for her participation, and 23 everybody that participated. It was a great event. I didn't 24 know it was the most we'd ever had, but sure looked like we 25 had a good crowd. It was good. Enjoyed it. 12-28-09 5 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There were a few empty seats. My 4 understanding was there were 280 chairs that -- that were set 5 up, and there were very few unoccupied. Thanks to 6 Commissioner Oehler and his wife for all their work, and also 7 to Jody, who put together all of the special treats and 8 drawings that we had. She put all that together for us and 9 managed that and gathered it up. And, of course, Eva with 10 her service awards; we appreciate that. But let's get on and 11 get this year finished up. First item on the agenda is to 12 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize 13 and/or approve preliminary planning, evaluation, and other 14 preconstruction activities or procedures in connection with 15 proposed Law Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation building, 16 including, but not limited to, approval of floor plans and/or 17 specifications and authorizing appropriate bid and/or 18 construction documents and advertising for bids and/or 19 proposals for various aspects for the construction of the 20 building and related improvements. Is there anything we 21 can't cover on that as it relates to this building? 22 MR. LEWIS: Was there a comma in that? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got Peter Lewis here with us 24 to give us an update. And I think, actually, we're going to 25 authorize launching that project today, are we not? 12-28-09 6 1 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. Judge, Commissioners, thank 2 you. Good to be here again, and it's good to know everyone 3 had a great Christmas, and looking forward to a prosperous 4 new year. I have with me today the sealed construction 5 drawings for said project, as well as the specifications. 6 I'm just going to lay them here. I'm going to take them when 7 we leave, 'cause we will take them to the printer. The -- 8 the scenario from this day on, if Commissioners Court blesses 9 our efforts here, is that we will go ahead and print bid sets 10 of these, and the County will advertise for competitive bids 11 for all interested and qualified contractors, and the bids 12 will -- the bidding will -- the printing will take the course 13 of this week. We will have bid sets ready on Monday, which 14 is January 4th -- is that correct? And with bids to be 15 received on -- at 2 p.m. on Friday, January 22nd, and opened 16 here at Commissioners Court 10 a.m. on Monday, January 25th. 17 We have had interest expressed from at least three local 18 general contractors, and -- and at least one out of San 19 Antonio. I expect, given the current economic climate and 20 environment, that we should get some good interest in this 21 project. It is a 14 -- a 14,400 square foot, plus or minus, 22 building, with site work attendant to it. 23 I have some just schematic exhibits. Y'all are 24 generally familiar with all this. And I don't have a Power 25 Point today, but what we've got is this -- the annex addition 12-28-09 7 1 here just says 14,500. That includes covered area. We have 2 additional parking back here, and we're doing parking here. 3 We're also providing turn-around for the fire department back 4 here, and improving your detention pond, enlarging and 5 improving it. And all of the -- all of the efforts have gone 6 into making sure that all these things work together. We 7 have had many discussions and meetings with -- with staff; 8 with Mr. Odom, with Tim, and with the -- with the Judge, 9 regarding the details. We've also visited with Sheriff's -- 10 representatives from the Sheriff's Office and Clete Buckalew 11 on behalf of Adult Probation. The building itself, it's a 12 rectangular building with four different divisions to it, 13 actually. And we have the Sheriff's annex here, a common 14 area here that has meeting and training room space, public 15 restrooms and break room, and then Adult Probation, and then 16 there's some additional unbuilt space that has sanitary sewer 17 line and utilities roughed in, but ready to be finished out 18 for some other county offices that might need to be there in 19 the future. 20 And Commissioner Williams mentioned pretty 21 pictures. Well, this is our building; I'll show everybody 22 here. It's a delightful engineered metal building with metal 23 siding and some canopy -- covered canopies at the entrances, 24 but it is -- it's an efficient building. We believe it's 25 efficient, and it will be a cost-effective building and will 12-28-09 8 1 service the county for years to come. And having said that, 2 I'll turn it over to -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me throw out one question I'm 4 not sure we've talked about. Did we put an allowance in 5 there to do a rock wainscot? 6 MR. LEWIS: There is no allowance for rock 7 wainscot. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. LEWIS: What we do have -- when you say there's 10 not -- there's no allowance, there's not a cost allowance. 11 There is a brick ledge around the perimeter of the building. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I was aware of that. 13 MR. LEWIS: Was that your question or not? But we 14 have not accounted for any funds for that. So -- and we can 15 certainly do that during the bidding process and issue that 16 as part of an addendum. What will happen is, we will issue 17 this for bids. As we get questions, inquiries from the 18 contractors for clarifications, or requests from 19 Commissioners Court, from -- from the owner, we will issue 20 addenda that will -- that will become part of the contract, 21 and that will be as binding as the rest of the documents. 22 So, if it is Commissioners Court's wish to do that, we could 23 add that as part of an addendum. Right now, we have the 24 brick ledge, though, and so at any time in the future you 25 could come in and put brick, stone, whatever you'd like. 12-28-09 9 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Total is 14,000 square 2 feet? 3 MR. LEWIS: 14,5. It's a clear span, so the 4 interior space is -- can be used very flexibly. And 5 expansion space would allow flexibility as well. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My first thought is, going 7 back to this old building here, this old building and that 8 new building and what we went through several years ago to 9 kind of make them look a little bit alike, and I would hate 10 to see us build something out there that is just so different 11 from the present building, Rusty's operation over there, that 12 -- that we regret the way that it looks. Then we have to 13 come back later on and spend more money. I'd just like to 14 see the rocks on it, myself. It's just -- I just think that 15 we need to take care of that now, as opposed to in the 16 future. Let me ask you a question. I had an e-mail last 17 week from a future occupant that will remain not identified 18 here, but asked the question, are we only going to have one 19 electric outlet in our office -- individual offices? 20 MR. LEWIS: I would have to look at the drawings. 21 We sat down with the representatives from both departments 22 and located all of those, so I think generally where we have 23 a desk, we'll have an outlet and -- and communications -- 24 communication and technology at that location. I can 25 certainly -- if you'd like, I can open up -- 12-28-09 10 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, yeah. It's just -- I 2 thought it was a goofy question at first. Then I got to 3 thinking about it, and I can just see us -- again, going back 4 to the problems that we've had around this old courthouse of 5 people having their heaters and their computers and their 6 hair dryers and electric toothbrushes and all those things 7 plugged in and plugs going everywhere. 8 MR. LEWIS: We have -- we have at least two outlets 9 in every office. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. That answered my 11 question, thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- 13 MR. LEWIS: They're on opposing walls. They're not 14 on the same wall. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, good. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That cuts down the 17 extension cords by 50 percent. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it does. 19 MR. LEWIS: We have surge arresters in the bid 20 documents. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it would be well to go ahead 22 and -- go ahead and plug in an allowance for a rock wainscot, 23 at least on the east and -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: South. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- south sides. That's the ones 12-28-09 11 1 facing the entrance into the Sheriff's Office, and then 2 Clearwater Paseo, which will be the -- the unfinished end, 3 and then the front entrances to the other offices. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're talking about, like, a 5 4-foot tall -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Wainscot, yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not the whole wall? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Not -- no. To make it more hill 9 country compatible, I guess you'd call it, for lack of a 10 better term. And -- and we can elect at the time that we act 11 on the bids to do or not do at that point. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good idea. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. LEWIS: We'll do that. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's easy enough to do now, isn't 17 it? 18 MR. LEWIS: Certainly. Certainly. In fact, you 19 will recall, we had at one time shown a wainscot, and then in 20 the interest of economics -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Austerity. 22 MR. LEWIS: Austerity, yes, sir. We had taken it 23 off. But we -- again, brick ledges on all four sides, and at 24 any time, you can add. And so we will do that, and we will 25 review that with -- with you, Judge, the limits of it, to 12-28-09 12 1 make sure that we're consistent with what your expectations 2 are, and -- and that will be part of Addendum Number 1. That 3 addendum won't go out until, I would say, the second week of 4 bidding at least, 'cause we would want some time to have 5 bidders look at it, and if they have any initial questions. 6 And we would expect maybe two addendum -- two addenda, 7 plural, during the course of the bidding, maybe -- maybe 8 three, one at the very last hour. We tried -- we want to be 9 responsive and get everybody's questions in and get them 10 answered, and it will -- it will be a function of how many 11 bidders we have. And, of course, you know, what will happen 12 is there will be interest, but there -- all of the real 13 intense interest won't be until the last two or three days of 14 bid time. And then -- and we -- we asked to have bids 15 received on a Friday so we have time just to put everything 16 together and present it to y'all on Monday morning, and then 17 the formal bid opening will be here. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And there's a mandatory pre-bid 19 conference that -- 20 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- will be scheduled, too. 22 MR. LEWIS: Right now, we -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So those questions can be answered. 24 MR. LEWIS: Some of them -- we will have that here, 25 and that is, in fact, on Wednesday, January 13th, at 12-28-09 13 1 10 o'clock here. And our thought was they would convene 2 here, and those interested bid parties, we would take them 3 out to the site after we had talked. And so we would meet 4 here and discuss, and then -- and I would expect that the 5 site contractors would be the most interested in seeing the 6 site, because the building itself is a fairly straightforward 7 building. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, you -- you need 9 approval from the Court, a motion and order -- 10 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- authorizing you to proceed to -- 12 MR. LEWIS: Printing and -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And request for proposals? 14 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Bids in accordance with the plans 16 and specs and the bid documents that you've prepared? 17 MR. LEWIS: And we'll get with Jody regarding the 18 advertising process, and she will -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Return of the bids by 20 2 p.m. on the 22nd? Is that what you said? 21 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For bid opening for -- at 23 9 a.m. on the 25th? 24 MR. LEWIS: I've got it at 10 a.m. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 a.m. 12-28-09 14 1 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And where do I pick up my 3 bid package? 4 MR. LEWIS: Your bid package will be -- we will be 5 able to -- you can pick them up at the printer. We will have 6 them at our office. We'll issue them from our office. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, get them from you? 8 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MR. LEWIS: And the sealed bids, though, will be 11 received -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the time frame on the 13 funding for this? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mid -- mid-January. 15 MR. LEWIS: We do have -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: And the bid documents are clearly 17 going to specify it's subject to funding, because that is 18 pending, so that there's full disclosure. We don't 19 anticipate that that'll be any sort of a problem. It's just 20 a disclosure that -- that needs to be made. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 22 MR. LEWIS: In fact, I'll comment on three things. 23 One is -- addresses that. We have -- on our invitation to 24 bid, we have 11 items. Item Number 9 says acceptance of any 25 bid -- bids and execution of contract or contracts for 12-28-09 15 1 general construction is subject to project funding. The -- 2 the project has been structured. We have -- in a number of 3 bid packages. One is the site, and then one is the building 4 shell and foundation, the second one is. And the site has 5 several components. The building shell and foundation is a 6 package, and then the third is the interior finish-out, 7 giving the County the option to decide how to kind of parse 8 that out. And if you find that -- the thought always was 9 that perhaps some of this work could be done by the County or 10 other forces in an economic way, and so the bid package has 11 been structured to allow us to do that. The other, we've got 12 a -- owner reserves the right to waive irregularities, reject 13 any or all bids, and accept any combination of bids, which 14 goes hand-in-hand with that. And then, finally, I guess, and 15 importantly, the County Court of Kerr County requires the 16 project to be 100 percent complete and ready for owner's full 17 occupancy no later than Wednesday, September 1st, 2010. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was my next question; 19 what's the time frame? 20 MR. LEWIS: And we believe that it should be -- 21 that that should be very easy. Now, if you break it out and 22 you have multiple contractors involved, there may not be as 23 much overlap as if a single contractor executed it, but we 24 believe that's adequate time for this project. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move that 12-28-09 16 1 County Court authorize the appropriate bid or construction 2 documents and advertising for bids and proposal for various 3 aspects of the construction of the building to be located 4 adjacent to the Sheriff's complex on Clearwater Paseo, with 5 bids to be received 2 p.m. on January 22nd, and bid opening 6 on January 25 at 10 a.m. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 9 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Anything 16 else on that particular agenda item, gentlemen? Let's move 17 on to Item 2; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate 18 action on request to place a permanent building on the west 19 side of the River Star Arts and Events Park property. 20 Mr. Lewis and Ms. Carr are here with respect to that 21 particular matter. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to shift gears. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're moving to second 24 base now. 25 MR. LEWIS: Yes. Let me get this stuff out of the 12-28-09 17 1 way here. Well, thank you again, gentlemen, for this 2 opportunity. I'm here with Penni Carr, who is the executive 3 director of Texas Arts and Crafts Educational Foundation. 4 She is our person that makes all the good stuff happen all 5 year long, and most especially during our fair. We -- and 6 I'm here on behalf the board as the board president. The 7 City of Kerrville has issued a Request for Proposal for 8 disposition of the building at 433 West Water Street, which 9 is the building that occupies the space between the library 10 building and the Kerr Regional History Center. It was -- it 11 is a long, narrow building that has a brick addition on the 12 back, and is -- historically, it is said that that was a 13 bowling alley that went with the Schreiner mansion, and it 14 was used -- so it has some -- some cultural, if not 15 historical significance. 16 We were fortunate enough to be involved in a master 17 plan of the library campus with the City, and in the course 18 of that master planning process, it was determined that 19 building was not going to remain on the property. And so, 20 instead of just demolishing that building, the City had, 21 several months ago, issued an RFP, which they -- there was 22 not a response to it. And they -- we visited with them. 23 There was concern about the loss of that building, so we 24 investigated it with them and talked about trying it one more 25 time. And when I say "we," that was we as the architect. 12-28-09 18 1 And I had visited with my board and with our leadership 2 regarding the possible use of that on the River Star campus. 3 The building is 28 by 72; it's a little under 2,000 -- right 4 around 2,000 square feet. It is a frame building, and the 5 interior of it would be gutted to be just generally a blank 6 canvas. 7 We talked at -- at board level. We have always 8 talked on our campus here -- and I don't have a plan that 9 shows the building itself, but I do have a plan that shows 10 our project or the 7 acres that we have. And the Youth 11 Exhibit Center's all on this side, on the east side here. 12 This is our outdoor pavilion and our office and our 13 air-conditioned restrooms. Our thought is to place the 14 building generally up in this end of the campus. We have 15 always wanted to have an indoor event center. We have this 16 nice outdoor event center; we get a lot of use out of it, and 17 have plans for making it more usable during the winter and 18 inclement weather, but it's not -- still not an indoor venue. 19 And the -- again, the master plan that we had always 20 envisioned is two different -- an outdoor and an indoor 21 venue, and this seemed to be a good fit for us. And we -- we 22 felt that it would be -- it would be fitting for us to -- to 23 accept a building on our campus that we could renovate, 24 rehabilitate, and add to, to provide this indoor event center 25 which will be used for weddings and parties, Quinceaneras and 12-28-09 19 1 things that don't otherwise work well with the outdoor 2 pavilion. 3 The -- the City's RFP was -- really, there weren't 4 any conditions; they were just soliciting. And there, so 5 far, are two interested parties. We are one party, and Mark 6 and Linda Stone, who are well known for what they did with 7 Rails, and they've built the Schlotzsky's here, are also 8 interested in that building. So, there -- there is great 9 hope that the building will not be demolished and be lost to 10 -- to the history of Kerr County forever. Our -- our request 11 today is not a request for any kind of funding. It is a 12 request -- it is to request your permission to place a 13 structure on the site, and that is consistent with our lease 14 with the County. And -- and, again, generally, in that 15 northwest corner site. We haven't taken the planning much 16 further than that. The -- when is the RFP due? 17 MS. CARR: January 15th. 18 MR. LEWIS: So we're under a tight timeline. 19 That's why we requested a quick -- at our last board meeting, 20 we got permission from the board to proceed with this. And 21 we would be glad to come back with any more details as we 22 develop those, but we are under some pressure to get our 23 proposal together. Our request to the City would be that 24 they deliver the building to us and place it on the site, and 25 then we would go about soliciting funding for the -- whatever 12-28-09 20 1 proposed improvements, and from private sources, from other 2 sources. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you have to move it at 4 your expense? 5 MR. LEWIS: Our -- without showing our hand 6 completely, I guess, but no, we would not. We would -- we 7 would suggest part -- one of the conditions -- and we've 8 talked with the City. They have funding to move that 9 building. We would -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 11 MR. LEWIS: Our -- our intent would be to purchase 12 that building for a dollar or some other consideration and 13 have it moved to the site, and then we would take it from 14 there. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have water, sewer, 16 utilities on the northwest corner? 17 MR. LEWIS: We -- sewer's close by. We do have 18 water there, and we have power. We would have to extend 19 sewer to that from Riverside. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just have to run it from 21 there to Riverside. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It runs on Riverside? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It runs on Riverside. 24 MR. LEWIS: So we would have to put a tap in, but 25 the other utilities are available. 12-28-09 21 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Your request today is merely to get 2 the Court's permission, consistent with the lease, to 3 generally place this building on the property? 4 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Was it your intention, if given that 6 permission and if you're successful in getting the building, 7 to come back to the Court to get the Court's permission for 8 what your overall scheme of development and placement and all 9 these other things were going to be, and that -- how it's 10 going to fit in with the project -- 11 MR. LEWIS: Of course. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- being approved and so forth? 13 MR. LEWIS: Of course. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You're just generally seeking 15 permission to -- 16 MR. LEWIS: Before we respond to an RFP and find 17 out that we don't have your permission. (Laughter.) 18 Particularly if it was accepted. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this will be an 20 addition to your existing ground lease. 21 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And trying to reconstruct 23 in my brain, I believe your ground lease provides that any 24 and all improvements inure to the benefit of the County over 25 the long haul if, as, and when that you cease to occupy that 12-28-09 22 1 property; is that correct? 2 MR. LEWIS: That is correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or the lease goes away? 4 MR. LEWIS: That is correct. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So this will be a county 6 building at the end of the line. 7 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other question I had, 9 Peter, has to do with -- excuse me -- taking that space, does 10 it in any way affect your fair configuration? All the things 11 you do for the -- for the Arts and Crafts Fair? Does it 12 impact that in any way? 13 MR. LEWIS: It enhances it. We would use it during 14 the fair. And we -- again, we've always envisioned a space 15 like that. And -- and if you think about some of the fairs 16 you've walked around over the years, we -- on this site, we 17 have -- have a couple times had big tents back there that 18 have been event tents, and this would become a permanent 19 facility like that. So, it actually -- we believe it 20 enhances the operation. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The back corner of that property -- 22 as I recall, in recent fairs, the back corner towards the 23 Riverside Drive -- 24 MR. LEWIS: Kind of the northwest corner. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It's been generally pretty 12-28-09 23 1 vacant back there. 2 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: There have been some children's 4 activities, a climbing wall and that sort of stuff, but it 5 would seem to me that that would be a good place for -- you 6 know, you've got some indoor stuff going on, and in our -- 7 MR. LEWIS: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- exhibit hall, and this would give 9 you some additional space for exhibitors and vendors. 10 MR. LEWIS: It would for that, and then again, we 11 would have -- right now back there, we put porta-potties back 12 there. We'd have permanent toilets. We could have exhibit 13 space. We could have just -- you know, our food vendors 14 might be able to use that space. We might have evening 15 events out there. I think it would become a -- a very 16 functional addition to our overall fair layout. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But your overall intention is, 18 assuming you get the permission of the Court to go forward 19 with the responding to the RFP and you're successful, is to 20 come back to the Court for -- for the actual project, 21 permission for the actual project? 22 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what are you seeking 25 today? 12-28-09 24 1 MR. LEWIS: Seeking your permission to respond to 2 proceed with our planning and respond to the City's RFP. So, 3 seeking, in principle -- in concept, the Commissioners 4 Court's permission to place a permanent structure on our site 5 in that general location. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval as indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor 10 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you. 15 MR. LEWIS: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Hope you're successful. 17 MR. LEWIS: Happy new year. Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You're doing a great job. Thank 19 you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really, I have one more 21 question for you. I understand the City's thinking about 22 purchasing the old Schreiner Bank to move the City Hall -- 23 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- into. We've got this 25 cannon out here that is -- looks like to me it's focused 12-28-09 25 1 right on that building. 2 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you make sure that it 4 is? Just for fun. I mean, I think -- I think we could have 5 a good time out of that. And in case the thing went off... 6 (Laughter.) Thank you. Happy new year. 7 MR. LEWIS: Your request is acknowledged. 8 (Laughter.) Happy new year. Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take care, Peter. Thank 10 you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That brings us right to our 9:30 12 item. At this time, I will recess the Commissioners Court 13 meeting and I will convene and open a public hearing for 14 raising the speed limit to 45 miles an hour and adding 30 15 mile-an-hour curve warning signs on Skyline Drive in the 16 Center Point area. 17 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:30 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 18 court, as follows:) 19 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 21 the audience that wishes to be heard with respect to the 22 raising of the speed limit to 45 miles an hour and adding 23 30 mile-an-hour curve warning signs on Skyline Drive in 24 Center Point? 25 (No response.) 12-28-09 26 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no one coming forward, I will 2 close the public hearing with regards to the raising of the 3 speed limit to 45 miles an hour and adding 30 mile-an-hour 4 curve warning signs on Skyline Drive in Center Point. 5 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:31 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 6 reopened.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 9 Commissioners Court meeting, and we will go to Item 4, to 10 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 11 raising the speed limit to 45 miles an hour, and installing 12 two, 45 mile-an-hour speed limit signs and installing two 30 13 mile-an-hour curve warning signs on Skyline Drive in Center 14 Point. Commissioner Williams? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, on most of this, 16 we've done all of the assessments, the speed and traffic 17 counts and all that good stuff. I do have one question about 18 the signage, Len. 19 MR. ODOM: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about as you're 21 going westward on Skyline Drive, you have to slow people down 22 for that major curve that's up there. 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess you talk about -- 25 there was two signs there, so you're talking about another 12-28-09 27 1 curve sign coming eastward; is that correct? 2 MR. ODOM: That's correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But I also wanted to have a 4 30 mile-an-hour sign -- warning sign to slow people down from 5 the 45 about in the vicinity of the County's little park, so 6 that they're slowed down coming into town. 7 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I would -- to go from 45 to a 8 30, to hit that deal, we would probably put -- we would put a 9 sign up that says reduced speed ahead. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. That will be fine. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's already a 30 mile-an-hour -- 12 MR. ODOM: That whole area is 30 mile an hour. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just wanted to make sure 15 they slow down coming into town, instead of blowing all the 16 way to 480 at 45 miles an hour. Move approval as presented. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 19 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 25 Item 5; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to set a 12-28-09 28 1 public hearing concerning speed limit on Red Bird Loop 2 located in Precinct 2. Mr. Odom? 3 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Ryder had requested us to 4 go out to set traffic counts on this road. He says that 5 young people have been speeding. They've been racing a 6 little bit up in there. Said it was quite difficult to call 7 the Sheriff's Department and try to enforce something which 8 was at no speed limit, so we went out and we took that count, 9 and we came up with running -- the average speed was running 10 23 to 22 miles an hour. So, what we'd like to do at this 11 time, based upon the 85 percentile, the 23 and 22, it shows 12 that the people living there are not speeding. It's the 13 outside people that -- that are coming in here, and he says 14 these youngsters are -- are speeding, racing some. So -- and 15 that's in this straightaway in front of these homes, 16 predominantly where the homes are at. So, we're asking to go 17 ahead and post a 30 mile-an-hour speed limit in there, which 18 is conducive to the 85 percentile speed. And at this time, 19 we'd like to set the public hearing for Monday, February the 20 8th, 2010, at 9:30. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 25 public hearing on the matter for February the 8th, 2010, 12-28-09 29 1 9:30 a.m. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 2 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 7 Mr. Odom. 8 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- we'll go to the next item, 10 Item 6, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 11 approve contract for Divide Volunteer Fire Department and 12 Kerr County Soil and Water Conservation District, and allow 13 County Judge to sign same. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 17 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 18 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 23 to Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 24 actions on amendments/modifications to the Kerr County 25 employees' prescription drug and insurance health plans. I 12-28-09 30 1 put this on the agenda after considerable discussions with 2 Ms. Hyde and our insurance folks, primarily our consultant 3 and -- and T.P.A. representative. I think the -- the 4 requested adjustments for today deal with adding additional 5 -- an additional tier to our prescription drug program, and 6 slightly modifying some of the co-pays with respect to those 7 tiers. The generic goes down; the others go up. We're 8 trying to -- we're trying to push folks to a generic 9 equivalent or therapeutic equivalent if -- if at all 10 possible, and giving them financial incentive to do so in 11 order to keep our costs contained as well as we can, but 12 still provide them adequate health benefits. The -- we're 13 adding, I think, two to the over-the-counter -- three to the 14 over-the-counter benefits, but generally we're dealing with 15 prescription drug benefits. Have you got any additional 16 enlightenment you want to give us on that, Ms. Hyde? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many -- how many regular 18 medicines have generic brands? Do they all? 19 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going -- is something 21 going to drop through the cracks? You're looking at me like 22 you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. 23 MS. HYDE: No, sir. I was trying to think of how 24 many drugs would have generics, and I would have no way of 25 knowing that, but do I know there are some that don't. 12-28-09 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if we adopt something 2 today that says that we're going to -- we're going to go to 3 where we're going to go -- we're going to push our employees, 4 quote, unquote, to the generic side of it, -- 5 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- are there medications -- 7 are there generic medications for all the major medications 8 that a doctor prescribes that people need to -- to live? 9 MS. HYDE: I can't -- I can't tell you 100 percent. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. The answer is no. 11 MS. HYDE: But the change that's being requested is 12 that if there is a generic or therapeutic equivalent, that 13 that be used. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there is one? 15 MS. HYDE: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then we -- oh, I agree 100 17 percent on that. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we're doing? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But if there isn't one, is it 21 still raising those costs up? 22 MS. HYDE: It will still raise the cost up for a 23 non-generic, yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I guess we need to 25 talk about those little details of how much are we raising 12-28-09 32 1 up? 2 MS. HYDE: On a retail, which is like going to 3 Walmart -- I'll use Walmart. The current plan -- did y'all 4 get copies of this? Would you like copies of this? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would like copies of 6 that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I thought everybody had a copy of 8 that. 9 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry, I thought everybody had one. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm used to being treated 11 this way, though. 12 MS. HYDE: I sent it to y'all's e-mail, too, and so 13 did Jody. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got it, Judge? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I got one. 16 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 17 MS. HYDE: If you look at the retail, I tried to 18 make this a little bit simpler to read. On the retail, I'll 19 use Walmart. So, if I have to take something that there is 20 not a generic equivalent for, my cost right now would either 21 be 20, 35 -- $20 or $35. We're asking that it goes from 20 22 to 25, which is a $5 increase; $35 to $40, again, a $5 23 increase. The alternative -- there is no alternative tier, 24 and it goes to $55. And we can get into the alternatives in 25 just one second, 'cause there's only seven alternatives. 12-28-09 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will go to 55 from what? 2 MS. HYDE: Zero. We had no tier -- we had no 3 fourth tier. It's a new tier. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. All of those in the new 6 alternative tier have a therapeutic equivalent. 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Each and every one of them. 9 MS. HYDE: If you go to Page 2, we boxed it up. 10 There are seven. And we have -- I don't know how to say some 11 of them. I'll try. Aciphex, Celebrex, Crestor, Kapidex, 12 Lipitor, Nexium, and Vytorin. But those are the 13 alternatives. There's seven, and there's -- the therapeutic 14 alternatives there are listed right beside it. So, the 15 person can go ahead and say, I want -- I can say Celebrex, so 16 I'll say Celebrex. "I want to keep Celebrex." Well, then 17 you get to pay $55. Or I can ask my doctor, "Can I take one 18 of these others?" And it costs me $5. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- so, when the doctor 20 writes my scrip, I ask him the question, "Hey, is there an 21 alternative?" 22 MS. HYDE: You can ask him that, yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the time to -- 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know I can, but is that 12-28-09 34 1 the time to do that? 2 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Because they know whether or 3 not they're going to allow you to take that other 4 prescription. If you -- for example, if you've taken -- if 5 you're on Celebrex and you've taken meloxicam and it's made 6 you sick, he's not going to -- or she's not going to 7 prescribe something that makes you sick. They're going to 8 say that you have to take Celebrex. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Most of your prescription forms, 10 Commissioner, have two boxes on them. One says to dispense 11 as written, or generic okay -- or authorized. And they'll -- 12 unless there's a specific reason that they want you to take 13 that name-brand medication, they'll generally say generic is 14 okay. Generic substitution is okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Those seven listed drugs comprise 17 monetarily a huge chunk of what we're paying. That's the 18 basis for this change. There's a disproportionate amount of 19 our prescription costs that go towards those seven listed 20 name-brand -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, of those seven, Judge, 22 take any one -- any one of them. If your doctor -- if you 23 convince your doctor that you can do the therapeutic 24 alternative, your cost drops from $55 to $5? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. 12-28-09 35 1 MS. HYDE: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, of course, the 3 County's accordingly. 4 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to make this 6 available to all employees? 7 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, we're going to do one letter 8 to make sure that everyone understands all the changes and 9 what it means, and keep it as simple as possible. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, I have one question, and I 11 think we need -- there needs to be a correction here. Under 12 the mail-order, we show current plan, 20, generic; new plan, 13 20. Should that not be reduced to 10? Two times five? 14 MS. HYDE: We can. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, wouldn't be that be consistent 16 with the $5 for a 30-day? And so if you're going to get 90 17 for the cost of two months, shouldn't that be two times five, 18 or 10? 19 MS. HYDE: We can, yes, sir. I didn't change it. 20 I left it the same, 20 to 20. There was no change. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we're going to try and push 22 these folks to generics, that proportionally is consistent, 23 is it not? 24 MS. HYDE: I just changed it on my paper. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12-28-09 36 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other gems you have for us? 4 MR. MALEK: No, we looked over it. We're pretty 5 happy with the way that's going to work. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What do we estimate our cost 7 savings will be? I realize this is pretty rough. 8 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 9 MS. HYDE: It will be anywhere from $50,000 to 10 $175,000. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And that's what we're 12 paying -- what Kerr County's paying? 13 MS. HYDE: Just Kerr County's portion. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say it again? 150 to -- 15 MS. HYDE: Between 50,000 and 175,000. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Damn. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're talking about -- and a 18 lot of that is attributable to these seven listed, isn't it? 19 MR. MALEK: Yes, sir. 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 21 MR. MALEK: Drugs have been the biggest part of 22 the -- what we saw as the biggest problem, or an area of 23 concern, was the prescription drugs. On average, we're 24 probably double what the national -- almost triple what the 25 national average is. 12-28-09 37 1 JUDGE TINLEY: More than double, I think Gary's 2 analysis showed. 3 MS. HYDE: And the other part of that is not just 4 with the seven drugs, but also with the diabetic program. 5 And I'm sure that there's going to be a question on it, so 6 I'll just go ahead and zoom in on that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Triple the national average 8 of usage of those particular medications? Or the cost? 9 MR. MALEK: Both, actually. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the same thing, isn't 11 it? 12 MR. MALEK: Really, both. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I mean, I see the 14 benefit of what you're doing here; it's a cost savings, is 15 what we're -- our main focus. Is there other issues here 16 that we're dealing with that is a benefit to the taxpayers of 17 Kerr County? 18 MR. MALEK: Cost is going to go down. That's -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I said cost. Cost 20 savings. 21 MR. MALEK: Just -- probably a more effective use 22 of prescription drugs, really, more than anything. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Awareness, making the 24 employees aware so they can talk to their doctor 25 intelligently about it. And in this box of seven that you've 12-28-09 38 1 got here, some of which are new, because with therapeutic 2 alternatives, there are things dropping off of the protected 3 list all the time. 4 MS. HYDE: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And do we routinely make a 6 note of that for our employees so they know these things? 7 MS. HYDE: We've attempted to in the past. It's 8 been a little bit difficult, because most employees don't 9 understand it. It's been a teaching and learning during the 10 last three years. I think that most employees now at least 11 understand the words "deductibles" and "co-pays." They're 12 getting smarter about bang for their buck, but I don't think 13 that they're still to the point where they understand that 14 what they're saving, that the County's paying. So, this is 15 -- this is another way to get them to start learning, if that 16 answers your question. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it does, but it 18 doesn't. What I'm really asking is, can we, during the 19 course of the year, -- 20 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- when new -- when the 22 high-price prescription drugs are no longer protected and go 23 in a generic -- become available -- generic becomes 24 available, can we make that information available to our 25 employees? 12-28-09 39 1 MS. HYDE: I'd like to do what you and I had kind 2 of discussed. As those come off, bring it back to the Court 3 and say, "This prescription is now off. I'd like to add this 4 to our list, and here's the therapeutic alternative." And 5 that way it's in court. Then I can send out something to all 6 the elected officials and department heads, as well as the 7 employees, and say, "Okay, this one's been -- this one's been 8 added to the list." And that way, they get the information 9 as it happens. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure if it takes a 11 new court order every time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we adopt this and include 13 these listed medications in a separate tier under our plan, 14 actually, if we -- if we drop one off or add one, we're 15 amending the plan, so we probably need to take Court action. 16 And probably on an annual basis, as we review our health 17 plan, that's the time to restructure this, just like we're 18 doing now. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, that's what I think. Does 21 that makes sense to you, Mr. Malek? 22 (Mr. Malek nodded.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, there are seven 24 medications here. 25 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 12-28-09 40 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where did you come up with 2 those seven? Are you sure there's not eight out there? 3 MS. HYDE: These are the ones that hit us the 4 hardest. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, y'all put your two heads 6 together and saw that these are the seven that -- that cost 7 the most? 8 MR. MALEK: Yeah, we have the data. The drug card 9 company provides us the data on an ongoing basis, and we can 10 pretty much see which ones are the -- the problem areas. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. 12 MR. MALEK: We know by drug how much they're 13 costing us every year. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- now, the agenda 15 item says amendments-slash-modifications. Is this the only 16 thing that we're going to vote on today? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, there's also the diabetic plan. 18 Our drug-free Sheriff -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ain't no more. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- may have a comment to make. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing I'm concerned -- a 22 lot of doctors, especially when you get in the statins or 23 cholesterol drugs, will not, because they say that the 24 generics they're not going to prescribe no matter what, and 25 so you're still going to end up with a lot of those, because 12-28-09 41 1 they don't have the trust in generics. And what you're doing 2 is raising the cost for all the employees, what it basically 3 amounts to. Our drug care plan goes -- not to the benefit of 4 the employees. It kind of turns the other way around. 5 Because I know I've had conversations -- I was on Lipitor, 6 and then it dropped and I got off it, as y'all know. But I 7 had another checkup last week, and he put me back on Crestor. 8 And his -- and I've had those conversations about generics, 9 and they just don't believe in the generics on those type of 10 drugs. They're -- because you're messing with your 11 cholesterol levels. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they don't prescribe it, 13 it's academic. You know, they're going to prescribe what 14 they want you to have. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's academic for him to 16 prescribe it. It's just upping the cost to the employees. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Sheriff, my thinking -- and 18 this is what I discussed with our insurance consultant, 19 Mr. Malek, and Ms. Hyde. If we have a small number of 20 employees that are overburdening our plan and causing an 21 economic hardship, as it were, on the vast majority of the 22 employees, and if we don't get some of these under control, 23 we're going to have to start all the employees being 24 economically invested in our plan if we don't get some of 25 these costs under control. So, you know, if you've got some 12-28-09 42 1 that are -- that are -- a few that are an excessive burden on 2 the plan, they need to share a larger portion of the 3 individual cost, and that's all this does. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can understand that, Judge. 5 The only thing is, I haven't seen any stats. If the savings 6 can be anywhere from 50,000 to 175,000, I don't know that 7 that's a small number of employees. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't seen those stats 10 come out of H.R. or medical people on what our number of 11 employees are. If you're talking that large amount, that may 12 be a pretty large number of employees that are on that. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- the insurance people 14 have calculated these. They have the data. They have the 15 statistics. And the reason for that wide variance in the 16 number is based upon a number of factors. If -- if a lot of 17 these folks shift to the therapeutic equivalents, the savings 18 will be much greater. If -- if the doctors insist that their 19 patient have the medication exactly as prescribed, and that's 20 what the doctor wants to prescribe for whatever reason, 21 they're less. But -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I may be not very 23 understanding. To me, it just kind of looks like we're 24 trying to force our employees to certain type of drugs. And, 25 like -- 12-28-09 43 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly what we're trying to 2 do, Sheriff. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I'm not -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We're trying to push them to the 5 generics where they're available so as to control the cost. 6 The alternative is, if you want to poll your people out there 7 at the department and ask them if they want to start kicking 8 in 100 bucks a month into their health plan -- you know, 9 we've got a Cadillac plan here. There are very few plans 10 available for large employers in Kerr County, or generally, 11 that the employee has a plan available at absolutely no 12 monetary cost to the employee. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no doubt we have a 14 Cadillac plan, and I wouldn't ever want to see our plan 15 change. The issue I have is where we're taking non-medical 16 people and trying to force our employees to do things that 17 their medical doctors may or may not think they should do 18 because of cost. Is that not the same type of thing -- my 19 opinion -- that the health care, government-wise right now, 20 is trying to do too? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not telling the doctor what to 22 prescribe. The doctor can continue to prescribe whatever he 23 wants. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. That was just my 25 comment. 12-28-09 44 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 2 MS. HYDE: Can I say one thing, Commissioner 3 Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 5 MS. HYDE: On these prescriptions, when we talk 6 this much money, I'll use my purple pill that I have used 7 multiple times. It is not that many people. The problem is 8 that these prescriptions are so much more expensive. For 9 example, Nexium, purple pill. We need it; we got to have it. 10 Okay, fine. You get it. That's what the doctor says. 11 However, comma, for a 30-day supply, you're talking close to 12 $600 for a 30-day supply. One person. Versus taking a 13 statin, which is going to cost us maybe $35, and the 14 employee $5. So, yes, those are big numbers, but they're not 15 big numbers because of number of employees. It's big numbers 16 because of pure dollars. Does that make more sense? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 19 MS. HYDE: And all we're trying do is to find ways 20 to do what the Court has asked, maintain the best that we can 21 possibly do without hurting the entire plan. And we have 22 about 20 percent, and that's these right here, that are going 23 to hit 80 percent of our cost, or can. That's a huge cost 24 for us. So, we're trying to take it in small steps and 25 reduce the generic to make it easier, increase the number of 12-28-09 45 1 OTC's, over-the-counters, that are free, no co-pay, so that 2 we don't have to put any more burden on the employee, 3 especially if they have family members or dependents, or 4 themselves. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you mind addressing 6 one point that Rusty made -- 7 MS. HYDE: Sure. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for me, please? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I heard him say that 11 Celebrex and Lipitor, that a doctor wouldn't -- would not -- 12 or, obviously, his doctor would not prescribe anything else. 13 And those two obviously are for the same -- same thing, 14 because they're alternatives, or the exact same drug out on 15 the side. 16 MS. HYDE: For Lipitor and Crestor. They're 17 statins, yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. And then each one of 19 the others, they also have a match. 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, do you know that it's a 22 true statement that the doctor won't prescribe anything other 23 than Celebrex or Lipitor? 24 MS. HYDE: I don't know what the Sheriff's doctor 25 will do or won't do, but I do know that doctors will 12-28-09 46 1 prescribe the statins, and they will attest to -- they will 2 try the statins. If they don't work, they'll flip them back. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Statins? 4 MS. HYDE: They're statins. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what they're called. 6 MS. HYDE: That's what they call them. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of it's due to side 8 effects, different ones. They may be using the same generic 9 drug on them, but I know the side effects can be different 10 from the Crestor to the Lipitor. Now, the generic drug, I 11 haven't looked at that that close. It may be the same one, 12 so I don't know what kind of side effects -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't pronounce any of 14 them, so don't worry about it. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, like I said, each one 17 of these has a match, just like the Celebrex and the Lipitor 18 does. 19 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MS. HYDE: The only one that is different is the 23 Celebrex. Celebrex is a meloxicam, and this is a 24 nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agent. But you are absolutely 25 correct; on Lipitor and Vytorin, those are statin drugs. 12-28-09 47 1 Aciphex, Crestor, Kapidex, and Nexium are all what we call a 2 prazole. So, it's just high, medium, and lows. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Always wondered if they were 4 all prazoles. (Laughter.) 5 MS. HYDE: That sounds like something Italian. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we know. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thought that was an Italian 8 sandwich, didn't you? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I thought. 10 But, obviously, I've been wrong. This is the first time I've 11 been wrong all year. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. You got to explain the 13 diabetic program. There are some that don't -- 14 MS. HYDE: I think there's six in there. Let me 15 give you one more. 16 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, are we done with the 18 prescription drug part of this? 19 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry, sir? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we done with the drug 21 part of it? 22 MS. HYDE: This is still drugs. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still drugs. 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But we're talking about diabetic -- 12-28-09 48 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- matters now. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MS. HYDE: The question was, on the diabetic 5 currently, the plan is under the National Diabetic pharmacy 6 plan, and the current plan is $5 generic, $5 formulary, and 7 35 non. We'd like to move it over to the Script Care 8 pharmacy plan, the people that do it. And the generic would 9 be zero, formulary would be 5, and nonformulary would be 35. 10 And the reason being is that we have 19 diabetics that 11 acquire medication for diabetes, but only nine acquire their 12 supplies. And what those type of supplies have to do with is 13 your lancets, your blood monitor, and your strips. And what 14 we've found is that when you dig a little bit deeper, the 15 folks that aren't getting those type of supplies through -- 16 that we can monitor and see, have other problems. So, what 17 we want to do is put them under the SCL plan, which means 18 that SCL will talk to them and make sure that they're 19 checking their blood, making sure that they're doing what 20 they should. They'll get a free monitor. If you're already 21 on a pump, we still have the pumps. The pumps are still 22 there. There's not a whole lot of change, other than the 23 fact that they need to get their supplies and they need to be 24 checking their blood. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And, I mean, there's no -- 12-28-09 49 1 there's no problem in getting the supplies? 2 MS. HYDE: No. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The supplies for the pumps 4 come from the company that manufactures the pump. 5 MS. HYDE: And they'll probably still come from 6 there. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't get it off the shelf? 8 MS. HYDE: No, they're going to come from there, 9 Bruce. It's not going to be a change. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: All we're doing is changing a name, 12 enforcing the fact if you're a diabetic, the first time you 13 go to get your meds in January, then they're going to -- 14 they're going to -- the pharmacy is going to call SCL, make 15 sure that you're on the list, and then they're going to start 16 making sure that you get your supplies. They contact the 17 diabetic personally and they say, "Okay, what do you need? 18 How do you need it? Here's what you're going to get." 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going to get your same 20 supplies? 21 MS. HYDE: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to be able to 23 get it cheaper by doing it this way. 24 MS. HYDE: That's right, and easier. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will be all right, too. 12-28-09 50 1 JUDGE TINLEY: But it forces those are that are not 2 monitoring now to be -- to be placed in a monitoring status. 3 MS. HYDE: Right. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And the only way they can get their 5 diabetic supplies under our employee health plan is through 6 this program which requires them to monitor themselves, or 7 they're going to have some -- 8 MS. HYDE: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- some follow-up counseling by 10 diabetic medical folks, and being gently urged back into the 11 plan. 12 MS. HYDE: What we found -- and maybe this will 13 help. I've got one right here that knows a lot about 14 diabetics, and one that knows a lot about diabetics right 15 there as well. A lot of folks, they're supposed to check 16 their blood once a day. Some are supposed to check it twice 17 a day. Depends on the severity of the diabetic. And what 18 we've found was that they're not getting the supplies to 19 check themselves. They're adults. However, comma, when it 20 costs more sometimes because their blood gets out of whack, 21 things happen, and they have to go to the emergency room, 22 they have to get other things or they have to stay in the 23 hospital, those type of things then cost the entire plan and 24 cost everybody. So, when we talk about what's the force? 25 Here's the force. Here's the rub. Eva Hyde is a diabetic; 12-28-09 51 1 she's supposed to check her blood twice a day. So, she goes 2 in January and she gets all her supplies, and she gets her 3 lancets, her -- her -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Test strips. 5 MS. HYDE: -- test strips, and my little -- they 6 don't even give alcohol swabs any more. But I go and get a 7 30-day supply. I'm supposed to test twice a day. I'm going 8 to get 65 to 70 of those. I come back in February to get my 9 new scrip of medical, and guess what? I haven't used my 10 swabs. I haven't used my lancets, because when I show the 11 blood meter, it shows that I only tested my blood once. So, 12 they're not going to pay for more lancets or more -- more 13 strips, but they are going to call and say, "Hey, why aren't 14 you checking your blood? Why aren't you doing what the 15 doctor has..." 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, in my particular case, 17 it's the reverse of that. And I'm not the one, but -- as you 18 well know, but it's 8 to 10 times a day, testing the blood 19 sugar. And that also -- you know, that creates having to 20 have a lot more test strips. 21 MS. HYDE: That's right. But that's why that first 22 time they get in the system, and instead of it being, "You 23 can't have them; you got to pay for them," okay, here -- 24 "Here's the scrip. Here's what I need, and this is why." 25 And then it makes it easier, because then you can get them 12-28-09 52 1 through the mail order like you do. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3 MR. MALEK: And then the doctor can also access the 4 data as they need it as well. They have a year's worth of 5 data if they need it. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. We've got more data 7 than you can throw on the side of the building, but -- 8 MR. MALEK: It becomes really important to them if 9 they're trying to manage that whole disease. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 MR. MALEK: You know, you can track it, you know, 12 in terms of when are the bad times and when are the good 13 ones. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In order to start this 15 program, you call this -- whatever it is, this SCL diabetic 16 program number here? 17 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And tell them what your needs 19 are, so that whenever they get a call from the pharmacist, 20 they'll already know about it. Probably the best case 21 scenario. 22 MS. HYDE: There you go. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, again, we're dealing 25 with the person's accountability, the person being 12-28-09 53 1 accountable, to me, and that translates into cost savings. 2 But the -- really, the bottom line, what we're talking about 3 again is what Pat Tinley refers to as the common denominator 4 in the world, is dollars and cents. So, we're still dealing 5 with cost savings as the major issue here. All right. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: At the same time, some of these 7 employees that -- that are suffering some ill effects because 8 they're not doing what the doctor's told them to do, this is 9 a method to encourage them to -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be accountable. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- do that in order that their 12 health is better, that there's more stability in their 13 condition, because they're doing the things that the doctor's 14 told them to do. And the actual cost to that individual goes 15 down. 16 MS. HYDE: Right. And they feel better. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: But we're saving money, because 18 we're not having these -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- high peaks and low valleys. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It ends up, if -- if they're having 23 a -- if they're having a bad day, it affects their 24 performance here in the courthouse. It may require them to 25 go to the emergency room in the middle of the night. If -- 12-28-09 54 1 if they're doing this monitoring correctly, they're going to 2 see what they need to do more in advance, as opposed to 3 having these high peaks and low valleys. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can see how that 5 translates into cost savings. But my favorite part of that 6 is being -- encouraging people to be accountable to 7 themselves. Not -- not to some government body somewhere, 8 but to themselves. That's kind of a neat thing. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: They're doing what their doctor -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- has told them to do. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Otherwise, it's going to 13 cost you one way or another. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For sure. 16 MS. HYDE: We're also going to have -- Commissioner 17 Baldwin, Rene Walls out at the Extension office does -- and 18 Laurinda do things regarding diabetes. We have a lot of 19 folks that are borderline diabetics, and they don't know 20 about the disease. They don't understand the disease. We're 21 going to have some information and some training and some 22 work-WIs on folks that are borderline to help them understand 23 what might be going on with them. A lot of folks don't 24 understand, and they think that it just has to do with sugar 25 and you just eat more sugar or you eat less sugar. That's 12-28-09 55 1 what it is. So, we're going to do some information out there 2 for those folks as well. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not sure that's much better 4 than going and having to do all the things the diabetic has 5 to do to live. If you head it off ahead of time, you're much 6 better off. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, you probably heard me 8 when -- when the Family Consumer Science extension agent, 9 Ms. Walls, was here, we talked about diabetic education. 10 We've had some instances in which people, because they don't 11 know the basics about diabetes, they don't realize there are 12 a few things that you can do with just a little bit of 13 education to keep your system in control, and as a 14 consequence, they go into diabetic shock, end up in the 15 emergency room and overnight in ICU, and they happen to be on 16 our indigent health care program. A little bit of education 17 will prevent that. And if y'all recall, Ms. Walls said that 18 she's going to have a diabetic education program specifically 19 geared towards county employees, and we got that coming next 20 year, and that's going to be helpful, I think. 21 MS. HYDE: Then the last one is the tobacco 22 cessation plan. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The what? 24 MS. HYDE: Tobacco cessation plan. It was smoking 25 cessation plan, but here in Texas, we have tobacco. We got 12-28-09 56 1 the stuff they put in their mouth, that goes between their 2 cheek and their gum, in front of their -- their teeth. And 3 then we have cigarettes as well. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not talking about 5 Tim, are you? 6 MS. HYDE: Tim quit, last I heard. Maybe not. 7 (Laughter.) 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You better swallow, Tim. 9 MR. BOLLIER: I try. 10 MS. HYDE: So, we talked about it and talked about 11 it and talked about it, and we decided to change it to 12 tobacco, because it's not quite consistent if you're only 13 doing smokers. The cheek and the gum and the snuff -- right? 14 The snuff as well. They impact employees. So, we've changed 15 the name to tobacco cessation. We limited it to $500 16 biannual with a lifetime maximum benefit of $2,000, which is 17 also including your OTC co-pay items. Of course, biannual 18 means every other year. But when do most people make their 19 new year's resolutions? New Year's. And we'll quit smoking; 20 I'm going to lose weight, be in better shape. So, we had to 21 kind of look at that. We don't want, every year, 300 folks 22 that might do snuff or whatever or smoke to do it every 23 single year, 'cause that kind of defeats the purpose, but we 24 can do it biannual. And it's $500 per year, with a maximum 25 of $2,000. And we also included more patches, the 12-28-09 57 1 replacement patches on the OTC list, to try to help 2 employees. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nothing -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Everyone's looking at you, aren't 5 they, Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: About smoking cessation, tobacco 8 cessation. 9 MR. BOLLIER: Going to hit it, right, Commissioner? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- what kind -- well, I 11 had to deal with the cancer thing. That's serious stuff 12 you're doing there. I mean, if you want to die, that's your 13 damn business. 14 MR. BOLLIER: Thanks, Commissioner. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wish you wouldn't, but we 16 can live without you. What kind -- and how many -- how many 17 medicines that help you stop smoking? 18 MS. HYDE: You've got Chantix, Zyban. A lot of 19 prescriptions will also call, when you take those, to do 20 things like take a depressant -- or an antidepressant like 21 Pamelor, which helps modify the person. Because if you're 22 quitting something cold turkey, as most of y'all are well 23 aware, it can -- it can drive you batty. Your anxiety levels 24 can go up. Nicotine is -- it is a drug. I know if I don't 25 have my cigarette, I get antsy, and if I don't have it for a 12-28-09 58 1 long period of time, I get pretty irritated. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, now I begin to figure 3 her out a little bit. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You're hitting home, aren't you? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Make sure she gets to smoke. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to all pitch in, buy 7 her a carton of cigarettes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make sure she signs up for 9 this plan. 10 MS. HYDE: I know when we talked, like when Tim and 11 I have talked, Tim's tried to quit several times. When he 12 wants it the most is when the stuff is hitting the fan the 13 hardest and his anxiety level goes up, and it gives you a 14 calming effect. Whether it really does or not, a lot of it 15 might be up here, but some of it is that your brain also 16 gets -- excuse me -- addicted, so that if you don't get it, 17 there's these little things in there that are saying, "Give 18 me, give me, give me, I want it." 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, so there are medicines 20 that you can -- that a doctor can prescribe you -- 21 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that you can take that 23 will get you over the hump or whatever? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until you get it fixed? 12-28-09 59 1 MS. HYDE: Then there's the patches, there's the 2 gum, there's lozenges. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, have you tried one in 4 the past that -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've tried a number of them. 6 Now, I'll be honest. The only one that has ever worked for 7 me is Chantix, and that's -- as some of y'all know, I quit 8 for about a year and a half almost, until a couple months 9 ago. I -- you know, holiday season, and I messed up. As the 10 doctor says, don't smoke one cigarette; you'll smoke them all 11 again. That's -- and that's what happened. So, I went back 12 on the Chantix last week to get it, 'cause that -- that does 13 help. But I'll -- you know, our medical deals pay for it, 14 but that one prescription, for a 30-day supply, I guess, is 15 138 bucks. 16 MS. HYDE: It's gone down. It's gone down. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was what they charged me. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That works for you. That 19 works for you. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does work. The other ones 21 didn't. Now, I've had other people that the patches -- you 22 know, the patches worked for or the gum worked for or cold 23 turkey worked for. But, you know, that's the only one I 24 found that worked for me. As long as I stay on the wagon. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, generally, these 12-28-09 60 1 smoking or tobacco cessation drugs are not included in health 2 benefits plans, and the -- the point here is, in order to 3 provide better health options for our employees, the 4 recommendation is we put it in place. We'll save money in 5 the long run if we -- if we assist in the payment of the cost 6 of these expensive drugs that are used for tobacco cessation, 7 but in the long run, we'll save a lot of money. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. Now, in 9 just a moment, we're going to adopt it for the first time? 10 Is that the point? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What's the difference in what 12 we're doing right now because of the health benny card that 13 gives you so much a year, okay -- or as I still call it. So, 14 you know, both times I've gone on it, that has paid for that 15 prescription, that benny card. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, but you're paying the full 17 cost, aren't you? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Off that card, yes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, this -- this way, we are 20 participating in the cost. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Because the first time, 22 I think the insurance paid one dollar of that 138, so the 23 benny card had to pay 137. But that's -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What's the co-pay on the -- what's 25 the co-pay? 12-28-09 61 1 MS. HYDE: It will be the nonformulary. If you go 2 to Walmart -- I'm freezing. I'm sorry, gentlemen. If you go 3 to the nonformulary and go to -- 4 MR. BOLLIER: Here, Ms. Hyde. 5 MS. HYDE: Go to -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't have a gun in it, 7 does it? 8 MS. HYDE: Go to get Chantix -- I lost my train of 9 thought. It will be $35 co-pay. It's nonformulary. Doesn't 10 go up to the alternative of 55. It goes to the nonformulary. 11 There's a lot of folks -- there's a lot of folks that want to 12 try to quit smoking, or quit dipping or quit snuffing. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Snuffing? 14 MS. HYDE: If that's what it's called. 15 MR. BOLLIER: It's called chaw. 16 MS. HYDE: They don't have the willpower that 17 others have. Now, as a smoker, there's nothing more 18 frustrating than someone saying, "Just do it." Well, if I 19 could just damn do it, I would have done it. I need a little 20 bit of help. It doesn't mean that I'm going to do it and get 21 on it and stay on it. 22 MR. BOLLIER: I have a question, though. Once you 23 start this med -- I mean, this medication that's supposed to 24 make you quit smoking and dipping and chewing and anything -- 25 tobacco product, are you going to have to stay on this for 12-28-09 62 1 the rest of your life? 2 MS. HYDE: Absolutely not. The -- the Chantix -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until the habit is over. 4 MS. HYDE: Right. The Chantix -- and typically 5 your snuff and other -- I mean, number one, you have to want 6 to do it. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 8 MS. HYDE: That's the big one. You have to want 9 to. If you really want to, then what they do is give a 10 30-day; you start with 30, and at the end of 30 days, then 11 you go to another 30 days. And then if you need it, you go 12 to another 30 days. And what we did in the plan was, in case 13 you fall off the wagon, there's enough in there that -- let's 14 say the Sheriff -- and if you don't mind, I'll use you. The 15 Sheriff, he does great, and then they have a real bad guy 16 thing; they have a murder or something where everything 17 escalates, and he is really wanting cigarettes. Go back and 18 get another one. We put a little extra money here. You can 19 go back for one more month and get -- get over that hump 20 during the bad guy time. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Willpower. Now, the first 22 prescription and that, going on it will help you, will get 23 you off. But somebody that's used tobacco -- Buster's 24 probably done this, or Tim -- you never lose that desire. 25 It's a serious addiction, period. And you've got to have the 12-28-09 63 1 willpower to last the whole time. And you can't let it get 2 away, but the prescription does help. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for it. 4 MS. WHITT: There's also a support -- a 1-800 5 support line. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We all know what the factors 7 are if we don't quit. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are not going to all 9 end up out at La Hacienda, are you? 10 MS. HYDE: We might. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's across the river, by the 12 time we get through with all of this. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State Hospital. 14 MS. HYDE: Those are the things that we're 15 recommending, just modifications to the plan. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The agenda item says "and 17 insurance health plan." Did we cover that too? 18 MS. HYDE: Well, I put that on there, Commissioner, 19 because I wanted to make sure -- 'cause sometimes the County 20 Attorney tells me I'm out, so I went ahead and covered my 21 bases and said it was insurance-slash-Script Care. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we've done it all? 23 MS. HYDE: There's only one more I'm going to do 24 just real quick, and that's the specialty drugs. The current 25 plan is $20 generic. The new plan would be 10. Formulary 12-28-09 64 1 goes from 40 to 45, and nonformulary, 70 to 75. Again, we're 2 decreasing generic cost, increasing $5 on the other kind. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are specialty drugs? 4 MS. HYDE: Give me an example. 5 MR. MALEK: Special cancer mixes. You know, the 6 gold shots that you get sometimes for arthritis. There's -- 7 they're really what your -- what are your higher end drugs. 8 Those are a couple of examples. We have a few people that 9 take them. And, you know, basically, there's alternatives, 10 so we're trying to get people going towards -- more towards 11 the alternatives. 12 MS. HYDE: The other thing that we did on the 13 cancer plan, through insurance and with Script Care, is when 14 people are having -- when people are dealing with cancer and 15 having to do therapy, it's bad enough you've got cancer and 16 you're dealing with the therapy. What we've found, 17 unfortunately, is that sometimes the doctors have to try 18 different -- different mixes, and what they'll do is they'll 19 prescribe people 30-, 60-, 90-day supplies, and you have to 20 go purchase the 30-, 60-, 90-day supply, and then you take it 21 for two days and it makes you extremely sick, and they say, 22 "Well, whoa, whoa, whoa. Come back in; we're going to change 23 it. We're going to change it." And we've had employees that 24 have had to deal with three or four different changes in less 25 than 15 to 20 days. That's a huge expense. So, what we're 12-28-09 65 1 working with is -- if we know, we're working with the 2 employees to see if the doctors can't give them a two- or 3 three-day supply. Let's test it. Let's see if this is your 4 cocktail. Is this your mix? And it seems to be working 5 better. And it seems to be working where the employee isn't 6 stressing out because they have to pay for it, too. So, it 7 is frustrating that you go Monday to your appointment, and 8 they say you need this, and you go pay your 70 bucks, and 9 then two days later, oh, man, now I got to pay another 70 and 10 another 70. So, we're trying to help them with some things 11 that they may not think of when they're doing this. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do you think that we 13 need to take some of these things individually? Or the whole 14 package? Or -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you could do them as a 16 package if you adopt the modifications, prescription drug, 17 the diabetic drug, and the tobacco cessation drug plan just 18 collectively. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 22 approval of the indicated modifications to the -- to the drug 23 plan. Question or discussion on the motion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, it's a recommended 25 modification. 12-28-09 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Recommended modification to 3 the prescription plans for 2010. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right, it's just for next 8 year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 11 in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 16 MS. HYDE: Thank you, gentlemen. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's go to Item 8; 18 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to reopen/amend 19 the FY 2008-'09 Kerr County budget to pay bills received from 20 the Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department. Commissioner 21 Oehler? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's pretty 23 self-explanatory, except for the real explanation being that 24 I was contacted recently by the County Auditor, who informed 25 me that Mountain Home Fire Department had turned in some 12-28-09 67 1 bills that were -- that were related to '08-'09 fiscal year 2 budget, and they were turned in late. Because they did not 3 get any of their funding that was granted to them last year 4 from the County for these bills. And I guess, in their 5 defense, they have changed some officers out up there, and 6 the new treasurer did not understand about the fiscal year 7 being October 1 to September 30. So, these bills came in. 8 They thought they got them in before January; they were all 9 fine. Not the case. Our budget year, of course, closed out, 10 and they did not get their funding out of last year's budget 11 that would have paid these bills which I have totaling 12 $11,268.65. Is that correct? 13 MS. MABRY: I believe so. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty much their whole 15 allocation. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, pretty much their whole 17 allocation for all of last year. And I talked to the County 18 Attorney about how to put this on. How could this be 19 possible to do this legally? And -- 20 MS. BAILEY: Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- Ms. Acting Attorney, could 22 you please help me? 23 MS. BAILEY: I did speak to the Auditor's office 24 about it this morning, and apparently it is something that 25 can be done, although it's complex. It's a little bit 12-28-09 68 1 difficult to -- 2 MS. MABRY: We've learned that Incode -- after you 3 close the books, you cannot technically open them back up. 4 You can, however -- since the budget was already set for 5 $15,000 last year, and you can't do a prior period budget 6 amendment, the 15,000 is there. If we do a journal entry, it 7 will post it -- prior period journal entry, it will post it 8 in that fiscal year. The only other alternative would be to 9 do it in this fiscal year, declare an emergency, and take it 10 out of fund balance. So -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 12 MS. MABRY: -- either option is on the table. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: There's a way that you can do it via 14 journal entry? 15 MS. MABRY: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: In order to bring that -- 17 MS. MABRY: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- budget item forward and post it 19 against that? 20 MS. MABRY: Right. It would be a different story 21 if it wasn't already budgeted in that year, because you 22 cannot do a prior period budget amendment. But you can do a 23 prior period journal entry, since the budget is already set. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. MABRY: It wouldn't necessarily be an 12-28-09 69 1 emergency, because it was allocated in that fiscal year, and 2 these are '08-'09 bills. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Part of the problem is that -- that 4 these contracts with these VFD's, they are reimbursement 5 contracts. 6 MS. MABRY: Right, they're reimbursements. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't just give them the money. 8 They've got to bring us the bills, and then we reimburse. 9 MS. MABRY: Right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: So, it's an after-the-fact deal 11 anyway. 12 MS. MABRY: Right. And being -- you know, having 13 so many accounts and being unaware that they have not brought 14 us their reimbursables, you know, we went ahead and closed 15 the fiscal year, doing all of our closing entries. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, anyway, I would hope we 18 can approve payment to them for this one time. And I have 19 talked to them to let them understand better that they have 20 to have their bills in before the end of our fiscal year, 21 which is September 30th. And I think they have now changed 22 their fiscal year to coincide with the county, which in the 23 past it had been January to December, and so that's been 24 modified, so maybe they can remember to turn those bills in 25 to get reimbursed. 12-28-09 70 1 MS. MABRY: My only other concern would be it's 2 sort of a slippery slope. When you set a precedent to pay 3 bills in a previous fiscal year, very much after the closing, 4 you sort of set a precedent to allow other people to do it. 5 Whereas, you know, you -- I don't know if there's some way to 6 suggest that this is a no-no; don't do it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think most understand it's a 8 no-no, but what we need to understand is we're dealing with 9 some people who are providing a public service at no cost. 10 MS. MABRY: Exactly. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: These are volunteers, and they're 12 giving up their time and their abilities and their efforts -- 13 MS. MABRY: And we thank them very much for that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- at no cost, and to -- we've got 15 it budgeted, and it's -- all it's going to take is a journal 16 entry. 17 MS. MABRY: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And in the future, you can work with 19 these VFD's -- 20 MS. MABRY: Absolutely. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and make sure that they 22 understand the system, and -- and it's more workable for them 23 so we don't have that problem. 24 MS. MABRY: In doing ESD audits, that will be one 25 of my recommendations in the future to them, is to remember 12-28-09 71 1 what the fiscal year is, and what that entails at the end of 2 the year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be wise to 4 go ahead and send a letter out to them now. 5 MS. MABRY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, just -- it's a 8 reminder for most of them, I think. 9 MS. MABRY: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's really a courteous 11 thing to do. 12 MS. MABRY: Sure. 13 MS. BAILEY: Can I ask what the fiscal years are 14 for the other volunteer fire departments? Are all their 15 fiscal years equal to ours? 16 MS. MABRY: From what I've seen, it all coincides 17 with our fiscal year, because -- and especially now that 18 we're doing the audits, I see that more. 19 MS. BAILEY: Okay. So, that shouldn't be a problem 20 in the future. 21 MS. MABRY: And also, I mean -- I mean, since their 22 funding comes through the county and not the state -- the 23 state has an even different fiscal year than we do. 24 MS. BAILEY: Right. 25 MS. MABRY: And so -- but since the funding comes 12-28-09 72 1 through us, it's advisable, and usually, in most cases, they 2 are on our same fiscal year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only question about -- 4 about a letter going out with a recommendation like that -- 5 you're right, volunteers are the greatest organization on 6 earth. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Cheapest fire protection we got, 8 Commissioner. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I wonder if 10 someone would be offended by getting this letter from a crazy 11 auditor down there at the courthouse, or should they get it 12 from the Commissioners Court? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if the -- that's a 14 good question. I think when we send the contracts out, the 15 cover letter should stipulate somewhere in the cover letter 16 -- in the cover letter, what the rules are, and all -- all 17 bills must be submitted for reimbursement no later than. And 18 then the Auditor can send out a reminder during the budget 19 period that says don't forget, your bills must be in by 20 whatever date you want them in. So, you get -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Prior to the last meeting. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got a cover letter 23 notification telling you what the rules of the game are. You 24 got a second warning from the Auditor that they must be in by 25 such-and-such a date. 12-28-09 73 1 MS. MABRY: I know even -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do the contracts go 3 out? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they typically go out 5 any time after the budget year begins. They've been 6 dribbling out now for the last couple months. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. I think we got the 8 last of them this morning, didn't we? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we just did, yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, all the new ones have 11 gone out already? 12 MS. GRINSTEAD: I send them out right after you 13 approve them, typically the very beginning of October. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can send a letter out, 15 just rules of the game, now -- right now. 16 MS. MABRY: I know that Tracy in our office has 17 sent out reminder letters about bill cut-off dates, and it 18 wouldn't be, you know, any -- any harder to provide the ESD's 19 with that information as well. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The ESD's don't have -- this 21 is just about the VFD's. 22 MS. MABRY: Oh, yeah, VFD's. That's right, 'cause 23 they're the -- where the expenditures come from. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I can't see that they'd be offended. 25 The contract itself provides that it's reimbursement, and -- 12-28-09 74 1 and the contract period is for our fiscal year. 2 MS. MABRY: Right. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Because it's within our budget. And 4 I think just a reminder that it is reimbursement and that 5 they need to get the bills in before the end of the fiscal 6 year, and they can put a target date in there, will be 7 adequate. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. What we're dealing 9 with is state law. State law says we have to close the books 10 on the fiscal year at such-and-such a date, and that's all 11 we're talking about. 12 MS. MABRY: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I really don't like that this 14 has come up, but it has, and so I think we have to deal with 15 it. But I surely -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It happened. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it happens again, I think 18 that we'll probably be a little more stubborn about maybe the 19 reimbursement, because this is ample warning, after going 20 through what we're doing right now. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, Bruce, on all that. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't continue to do stuff 23 like that, because it would more set a precedent, and we 24 don't need to encourage that. So, how do you recommend that 25 we do this? 12-28-09 75 1 MS. MABRY: I would recommend that we just do a 2 journal entry to move that money, because it's already 3 budgeted. It would just take a prior period adjustment to 4 the previous set of books, '08-'09 books, to -- to put it in 5 the right fiscal year. And, honestly, it -- as far as our 6 auditors are concerned, it would have been in that fiscal 7 year anyway. It would have been an expense in that fiscal 8 year, and all I have to do is draw their attention to that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, actually, what you'd be 10 doing is paying these -- these bills and modifying your 11 journal entry? 12 MS. MABRY: Right. I'd be paying it through this 13 fiscal year, but it would actually -- because the journal 14 entry, it would end up posting it in a different -- the last 15 fiscal year. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. And I believe this is 17 all the bills that you're aware of? 18 MS. MABRY: I believe so. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $11,268.65. 20 MS. MABRY: I believe so. That's all that we'd 21 been asked to reimburse. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we pay Mountain 23 Home Volunteer Fire -- reimburse Mountain Home Fire 24 Department for expenses incurred in the '08-'09 budget year 25 through a journal entry amendment. 12-28-09 76 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 3 indicated for approval of the item. Question or discussion? 4 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 4 of the agenda, 10 if we might, payment of the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got one question. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: One? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I was courteous 14 enough to go in and visit with them early this morning. 15 MS. MABRY: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And got my other questions 17 answered. It wasn't a proper answer, but I got them 18 answered. Page 11, fire protection. Mountain Home Volunteer 19 Fire Department. 20 MS. MABRY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $15,000. And then two down, 22 Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, $15,000. 23 MS. MABRY: This is basically what we were just 24 discussing. The first one is the '09-'10 allocation of the 25 $15,000, and the second one is the '08-'09, which I will -- 12-28-09 77 1 it won't end up being posted in this fiscal year; it will be 2 reversed to the last -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we just said 4 11,000. 5 MS. MABRY: It is 11,000, but the allocation is for 6 15. We budgeted 15 for them. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we -- is this -- is 8 this -- are we spending the 15? 9 MS. MABRY: We're spending the 15. The 11 is for 10 the last set of reimbursables that they -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, there's four 12 other thousand dollars somewhere? 13 MS. MABRY: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In bills? 15 MS. MABRY: The last -- the last set was for 4,000. 16 I believe it was the last Commissioners Court. And they're 17 all -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then the new 15 is 19 reimbursement for -- 20 MS. MABRY: It's for all of that, all of the 21 '08-'09, which is the 4,000 that you've approved to pay, and 22 then this 11,000 which you've just -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you ask her my 24 question? I'm not -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I understand. 12-28-09 78 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not asking it correctly. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The first 15,000 is under their 3 current-year contract? 4 MS. MABRY: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The second 15,000 is your journal 6 entry? 7 MS. MABRY: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: But you'll end up charging against 9 that entry only 11,000 that you're actually asking to pay? 10 MS. MABRY: Right. Because the -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the 4,000 actually stays in 12 surplus? 13 MS. MABRY: It has, yes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now we got it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, there it is. 17 MS. MABRY: Thank you. Now I understand. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you actually 19 reimbursing them 15,000 for '09-'10 budget year? 20 MS. MABRY: We're going to end up reimbursing them 21 the full 15,000, because they did have that previous 4,000 22 and this 11,000. I will only be reversing what was allocated 23 to pay in the previous year, which is the full 15,000. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I think I got confused again. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: May I say something? The only 12-28-09 79 1 problem I see is that when we cut the checks, we're going to 2 cut a check to them for 30,000. Because it consolidates both 3 of them, so they're going to get a check for 30,000. 4 MS. MABRY: Well, the thing is, it's actually the 5 -- it was put under two different vendors. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: It is actually under two different 7 vendors? 8 MS. MABRY: Under two different vendors, two 9 different checks. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: That's it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are reimbursing 11,000 12 and change that's going to be credited back to the previous 13 budget? 14 MS. MABRY: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How -- are you saying to us 16 that in this one, there have been bills submitted from this 17 particular VFD for 15,000 -- 18 MS. MABRY: Total. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to be charged to the 20 current budget year? 21 MS. MABRY: 15,000 have been -- is charged to the 22 current fiscal year. They have turned in 15,000. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the budget 24 allocation. 25 MS. MABRY: Yes. 12-28-09 80 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question is, have bills 2 been submitted for that? 3 MS. MABRY: Yes. Or we wouldn't be -- we cut them 4 a check to reimburse them. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 MS. MABRY: Yes. It's all reimbursable. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, very good. Thank 8 you. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Basically, they're going to 10 lose $4,000 from '08-'09. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: They're going to leave that on the 12 table. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going to leave that on the 14 table. We're not going to pay any other bills out of that. 15 MS. MABRY: Well, that -- that's up to you guys. I 16 mean, we can do that. We can pay the full 15, and that's 17 what's scheduled to pay, or we could pay the 11. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pay the 11. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pay the 11. That's what we 20 got bills to reimburse. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 22 MS. MABRY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reimbursement. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- we're doing a -- 25 you know, I think we're doing the right thing by doing that, 12-28-09 81 1 but I don't think we ought to -- because there aren't bills 2 submitted for the other. 3 MS. MABRY: We're going to pay whatever is turned 4 in to be reimbursed. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Your last entry for '08-'09 is going 7 to be 11,000-plus. 8 MS. MABRY: Based on 11,000. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. Whatever. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whatever I wrote down here. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That actually answers my 12 question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. MABRY: Okay, good. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. I 17 guess we're not paying the bills today. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are we waiting on a second? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have a motion and a second 23 to pay the bills. Further discussion on the motion? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12-28-09 82 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. No budget 4 amendments? 5 MS. MABRY: No. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: No late bills? 7 MS. MABRY: No, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented with monthly 9 reports for Road and Bridge Department and Kerr County 10 Treasurer, amended November 2009 report. Do I hear a motion 11 that these reports be approved as presented? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 15 indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or 16 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 17 signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay. 22 Reports from Commissioners in connection with their committee 23 or liaison assignments. Commissioner Oehler? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I could say that I met 25 with the Sheriff in my new liaison duties. He's decided he 12-28-09 83 1 doesn't need anything else for the next two years. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be sure you remind him of 3 that for the next 11 months. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If I can get him to sign 5 that, I will be miles ahead, and so will we. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I hear no objection from the Sheriff 7 on the record. It's deemed acknowledged. Anything else? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The wiring for the new telephones 14 should start in a couple weeks, I think it is, that we're 15 going to start with the wiring. All the equipment has been 16 ordered, and hopefully we'll get that under way fairly 17 quickly. Any reports from elected officials? Department 18 heads? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just quickly. I didn't print 20 out the jail roster this morning, or go through it; I didn't 21 have enough time. But all during the weekend, it was -- jail 22 population was running in the upper 130's to low 140's, which 23 is still real well for the time of year. I have no problem 24 with that. In other business, my only concern is -- and I 25 think I heard you mention it earlier, is on the loan funding, 12-28-09 84 1 or the funding that's connected with that new building, 2 because as you well know, all our patrol vehicles are tied up 3 in that funding. We have not ordered any vehicles, and we do 4 not have any more spares. I've had either motors go out or 5 transmissions go out on vehicles with 200,000 miles that was 6 not worth fixing, so I refused to have them fixed, but I'm 7 beginning to get in a serious situation with patrol vehicles, 8 that we can't get those ordered. That's just -- I don't know 9 what we can do about that on that funding. I'll visit with 10 the Auditor, but I need to get those ordered. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your time frame on -- on 12 having to fund after you place your order? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Problem with that is, it could 14 take anywhere from three to four months to get them in. And 15 -- but, you know, because we're going with 10 Tahoes in that 16 order, because I got private funding to upgrade the Crown 17 Vics into Tahoes. It will be coming from a new dealer that 18 has state bid. Philpott Motors doesn't do the Tahoes; it's a 19 different one, so I don't know on those. Normally, this time 20 of year, because you're after the first of the year, you're 21 after the state and all other agencies have ordered, and it 22 could even get longer. But I could do some checking and find 23 out. I'm just getting concerned about our vehicle situation. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your funding requirement 25 after placement of the order? Do you know? 12-28-09 85 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I do not know. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably need to ascertain that. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably all up front. Or if 4 we -- what -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials or 6 department heads? 7 MS. MABRY: There's just one more thing. I did go 8 back and check with Joy, because I was under the 9 understanding that it was the 11,000, but apparently 10 subsequent to your conversation with the Auditor, they did 11 turn in the remainder of -- the 4,000 remainder of the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't have that bill in 13 front of me. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: They have -- they had appropriate 15 reimbursables? 16 MS. MABRY: I have it here, if you'd like to look 17 at it. Because it's -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll have to go back to 19 that, then, if we're going to -- 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 MS. MABRY: They turned in, apparently, another 22 batch of bills. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't have that one. Didn't 24 have that one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You got a total of 15,000 or more? 12-28-09 86 1 MS. MABRY: Well, 15,000 total, including the 11 2 that we discussed. They did -- they did end up turning in 3 the full 15. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: For '08-'09? 5 MS. MABRY: For '08-'09. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 THE CLERK: But the court order reads that -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll get back to it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce, the good news is 10 we're at 15,000. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we're at 15. 12 MS. MABRY: We're at 15,000. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess that's why it was on 14 the bills as 15. 15 MS. MABRY: Well, you know, we have -- we had a 16 batch -- that one batch that you discussed with her, and then 17 I guess maybe it was probably the next day or the day after, 18 they turned in another set. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't have those. 20 MS. MABRY: I wasn't aware of that. I apologize 21 for not having that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: But you've seen them now. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have seen them. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: First, let me ask if we have any 25 other elected officials, department heads for reports? Let's 12-28-09 87 1 go back to Agenda Item Number 8; consider, discuss take 2 appropriate action to reopen/amend FY 2008-'09 Kerr County 3 budget to pay bills received from Mountain Home Volunteer 4 Fire Department. There was previously a court order dealing 5 with approving that particular item with respect to $11,000 6 and change, and the amount that's now been brought to our 7 attention that reimbursables for that period include a total 8 of $15,000. Commissioner, do you desire to amend that court 9 order? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would amend -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: And have it read 15,000? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Motion to amend the order by 13 increasing the amount to 15,000. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 16 amending the order as indicated. Question or discussion on 17 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry to amend the prior 23 order. Anything else to come before the Court this morning? 24 We'll be adjourned. 25 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 10:45 a.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 12-28-09 88 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of December, 8 2009. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-28-09