1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, January 25, 2010 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X January 25, 2010 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 5 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on reducing registration fees to $1 during rabies 5 drive 14 6 1.2 Report to Commissioners Court of total monies collected by Court Compliance for 2009 16 7 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 8 authorize Freese and Nichols, Inc., to complete engineering, prepare bid specifications, advertise 9 for bids to repair Flat Rock and Ingram Lake dams and provide construction representation 18 10 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 conduct an acoustic bathometric survey of Flat Rock Lake to obtain lake bottom profile 12 and depths and density of silt on lake bottom 19 13 1.7 Consider/discussion of information provided by Freese & Nichols regarding general description 14 & typical approach to evaluating and remediating silt accumulation in a typical lake reservoir 19 15 1.3 Public Hearing for revision of plat for Lots 132 16 and 133 of Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, Precinct 4 41 17 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 approve final revision of plat for Lots 132 and 133 of Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs 19 Estates, Precinct 4 41 20 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for permission to sell surplus equipment and scrap 21 metal and to use the proceeds to purchase additional equipment 42 22 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 accept Misty Lane in Megan Manor Subdivision for maintenance, and release Surety Bond 24 #060170271788, Precinct 4 46 25 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) January 25, 2010 2 PAGE 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate on request 3 from Child Services Board to use a portion of courthouse square for a display during month 4 of April for Child Abuse Awareness Month 48 5 1.8 Open bids for proposed Law Enforcement Annex/ Adult Probation Building and refer bids to 6 appropriate personnel for consideration and recommendation 49 7 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 8 regarding property appraisal reports from TAC; Courthouse appraisal value increased to 9 historical reproduction cost 51 10 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to go out for annual bids for road base, cold mix, 11 aggregate, emulsion oil, & corrugated metal pipe 56 12 4.1 Pay Bills 57 13 4.2 Budget Amendments 60 4.3 Late Bills -- 14 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 60 15 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 62 16 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 62 17 --- Adjourned 72 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 On Monday, January 25, 2010, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let -- let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting 9 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled 10 for this date and time, Monday, January 25th, 2010, at 9 a.m. 11 It is that time now. Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Would you rise 13 with me for a word of prayer, and then we'll do the pledge of 14 allegiance. 15 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member 19 of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard on any 20 matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is your 21 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 22 If you do wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask that 23 you fill out a participation form. They could be -- should 24 be located at the back of the room. That helps me to keep 25 track of folks that wish to be heard on those agenda items. 1-25-10 5 1 Notwithstanding that, if you wish to be heard on an agenda 2 item, when we get to that item, get my attention in some 3 manner and I'll give you the opportunity to be heard. But 4 right now, if there's any member of the public that wishes to 5 be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come 6 forward and tell us what's on your mind now. Seeing no one 7 coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner Baldwin, what 8 do you have for us this morning? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to bring up 10 one issue. Down the hallways of my mind, I remember that we 11 have budgeted -- I think we have budgeted some money to do 12 some improvements at the Ag Barn, specifically in the arena, 13 I think the conversation was. And I just -- you know, I 14 don't know how much it is and where it is, but I -- I think 15 that if -- if that money is there, I think let's go ahead and 16 do it. I just wanted to get that on the table. If there -- 17 if there's -- there's plenty to be done, and if there's -- if 18 the money's there, let's go ahead and do it. Let's don't 19 hesitate on that issue. That's all. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've told the Court on an 22 earlier occasion, the AACOG road show is coming to town on 23 Wednesday, February 3, and it will be at the Dietert Senior 24 Center from 5:00 to 7 p.m. I've asked the members of the 25 press to stay with me for a minute or two afterwards so we 1-25-10 6 1 can talk about this, and impress folks on the importance of 2 this meeting. In addition to AACOG, the services they render 3 that are available to Kerr County residents, U.S.D.A.'s going 4 to participate as well and talk about some of their programs. 5 So, we'll be hopefully talking to the press after the meeting 6 on this. On another matter, Judge, I received word from 7 Texas Water Development Board that they have officially 8 accepted our Category A report, which is the first of four 9 parts of the planning that's under way right now for the 10 T.W.D.B. grant. And in a second letter, they have authorized 11 the Texas Department of Health Services to conduct a -- a 12 nuisance survey for the proposed service area. And I think 13 we all know from previous discussions that if that finding is 14 appropriate or is what we would hope that it would be, and I 15 don't know how it could be anything other, that goes a long 16 way toward providing additional grant help, as opposed to 17 loan help, from T.W.D.B. So, I'll be working with the 18 Environmental Health Department people and Texas Department 19 of Health and whoever else we have to, to make certain they 20 understand there are nuisances over there. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three things. I guess the 25 first, I think everyone knows, up here anyway, it was a great 1-25-10 7 1 stock show. The weather was just fantastic. It seemed like 2 there were record crowds to me; I can't ever remember seeing 3 so many people out there, but it was a great -- great event 4 again. Second is that last Thursday, we had -- the appeal 5 was heard by the Water Development Board on the GMA-9 DFC, 6 and it went better than I possibly could have imagined. 7 Probably what happened was one of the most important water 8 stories for the state of Texas this year, if not longer, 9 because what happened at the Water Development Board -- and 10 the board even went further than the staff recommendation -- 11 was that they went back and looked at how the DFC's are 12 calculated, which are being done statewide. They said they 13 cannot ignore exempt wells; they have to be put into mix, 14 which the DFC only deals with permitted wells. They have to 15 set aside in their allocation water for private property 16 owners, which are the exempt wells, essentially. So, it was 17 a huge win for private property rights. 18 In addition to that -- and basically, they sided 19 and agreed almost 100 percent with the appeal that we and 20 Region J and U.G.R.A. all put together, and it will have a 21 big impact on the Trinity, which is what we're really looking 22 at, because the Edwards-Trinity is not as important a water 23 source for Kerr County as the Trinity is, but it's going to 24 mean that the Trinity -- they have to allocate water for the 25 private property owners as well. This has implications for 1-25-10 8 1 city of Kerrville -- well, everybody, and it's really a good 2 decision. And the second thing they did, they also agreed 3 with us and said that the model that was used by GMA-9 was 4 not the correct model; that it should have used the 5 Edwards-Trinity model. And that model had a -- and the 6 reason for that was that the Edwards-Trinity model has what 7 is called a river drain package included in it, which 8 accounts for water flow in the springs, which the Trinity 9 model really doesn't do that. So, that was good. I can get 10 on my soapbox a little bit about the regional water planning, 11 how that process needed to be part of the GMA's and all of 12 that, and Vice Chairman Hunt concurred, and as did Weir 13 Labatt on that, two of the five members of their board, 14 echoed the same thing that I had said. So, it was a good 15 day. GMA-9 folks were not too happy when we left that 16 meeting, but I think -- and I really don't think they 17 understand some of the details of it. I don't think they 18 understand exactly what happened from the standpoint of the 19 permitted water versus exempt water. 20 The other thing, last week, I think it was last 21 Tuesday, I was at Southern Edwards Plateau Habitat 22 Conservation Plan meeting -- initial meeting, which is part 23 of the endangered species process. And it is the process 24 that allows development to continue in the -- I guess around 25 San Antonio, primarily. There's, I guess, $1.8 million 1-25-10 9 1 funding this group. I'm not sure, but I'm about to be 2 chairman of that, it looks like. I -- I tried not to be, but 3 then Kirby Brown, who many people know; he's executive 4 director of the Texas Wildlife Association, he was nominated, 5 and then he nominated me, and he and I talked afterwards. 6 Looks like we might be co-chairs. Neither of us wants to do 7 it, because it's going to be a lot of work over the next 8 couple of years. What this plan will do for Kerr County is 9 that Kerr County has a lot of endangered species habitat. 10 It's well-known, mapped by the Fish and Wildlife Service, and 11 that process will allow people that want to, on a voluntarily 12 basis in Kerr County, to basically set aside their tracts of 13 land and they can be compensated by developers in San Antonio 14 that want to destroy habitat. 15 In Bruce's area, for example, the Stowers Ranch, 16 there's huge conservation on that, and this mechanism -- 17 they've already decided to go down that road, and it allows 18 them to get compensated for their property. The value of 19 these easements can be equal to the property value there; 20 it's right in, you know, the market value, with the 21 stipulation that they can never be subdivided. It has to 22 always stay like a preserve. So, there are a lot of families 23 in Kendall County, Kerr County, Gillespie County, Bandera 24 County that would like to do this. This allows them the 25 opportunity to keep family ranches together and still realize 1-25-10 10 1 the -- the gain from the value of the land. So, it could be 2 a win-win, and this whole process determines how that is 3 done. I'm sure everyone's just totally interested in that 4 process. But -- but, anyway, that is how -- what I spent a 5 lot of last week doing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the vote of the 7 board? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unanimous. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, two things -- actually, 14 about three things. It came to my attention last week that 15 now that we have two helicopter services that provide medical 16 transportation -- Air Evac has been here a long time, and 17 they sold a lot of memberships out in the west end of the 18 county. I think they may have even sold a lot in other 19 areas. That was all fine and good, but now we have another 20 one in this Lifeflight, and for -- until October the 9th, 21 which is what I found out in my investigation last week, they 22 were honoring the insurance of Air Evac. Well, all of a 23 sudden they stopped, and so whenever you're a member of Air 24 Evac right now and you call for service, you may or may not 25 get the company that you have the membership with. And if 1-25-10 11 1 you don't get the one you have a membership with, you can get 2 a very large bill. I think that's something we need to work 3 on. I think that's kind of Commissioner Baldwin's alley with 4 EMS. I've been -- I've talked to all of them. Well, it is. 5 You're the liaison. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so I think that I will 8 fill him in more after the meeting so that maybe he can work 9 with the dispatch, as well as maybe those two services to see 10 if they can come up with some kind of agreement to where 11 whoever gets called, the person will be served, and somehow 12 not have to pay a huge bill or huge difference. It will take 13 a while, but I think it can happen. In this instance, the -- 14 the guy that -- he actually requested his membership, which 15 was Air Evac, and he got a bill for $21,000 because 16 Lifeflight showed up. The reason they showed up is 'cause 17 Air Evac was not available. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, you and I 19 talked about this the other day, and there used to be a 20 reciprocity agreement between the two, Air Life -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's gone away; is 23 that right? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That went away as of 25 October 9th, but I don't think that anybody -- they didn't 1-25-10 12 1 let it be known, and so a lot of people think -- especially 2 in my area, 'cause we have such a large area, that, you know, 3 they're going to get the service that they contracted for, 4 and that's not necessarily true, because the 911 dispatch 5 alternates whenever they get called. Or they get the one 6 that's -- that has the best ETA. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We should try to put this on 8 the agenda. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be good, and get -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have we signed a contract 12 with these people yet? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just informational. I 14 just wanted to let it be known. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have we signed a contract 16 with these people yet? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I gather. 18 MS. BAILEY: We could put that on the agenda. 19 Maybe it would be better to discuss it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can discuss it. I was 21 just mainly -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The County Attorney and I 23 are now best friends. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Other thing is, I -- I 25 concur with Commissioner Baldwin's deal on the Ag Barn, and I 1-25-10 13 1 think what we need to do is also maybe put that on the agenda 2 to authorize going out for grants. We've waited around long 3 enough on the City to do whatever it is they're going to do. 4 Other thing is, we have another little issue with Animal 5 Control not being able to communicate with the city police 6 department, which we will -- I have contacted one of the 7 Councilman and we will get to the bottom of that issue, 8 hopefully. Other than that, that's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Following up on Commissioner Letz' 10 comments, I was amazed at the number of people at the 11 district show livestock show on Friday. It was literally 12 wall-to-wall people. You couldn't stir them with a stick. I 13 don't ever remember the crowd being that large. I think good 14 weather probably had something to do with it. Roy Walston 15 told me the number of entries were up, which probably had 16 something also to do with it, but which does prompt the 17 question -- I heard a lot of comments about, You guys are 18 going to have to figure out a way to upgrade, enlarge, 19 various similar type comments being made. And we may want to 20 go back and take a look at the plan that we had prepared and 21 that we participated in back in the latter part of '08 and 22 see where we're going on that. And there may be some things 23 that are going on elsewhere that might impact what we do or 24 don't do there, but I think we need to -- we need to start 25 making some steps in the right direction. I think under 1-25-10 14 1 any -- any plan, it appears that the indoor arena is -- is 2 going to remain intact, and so that we can at least address 3 some issues that we have with that particular facility, 4 knowing that what we do there won't be lost. It'll -- it 5 will accommodate and -- and be able to be used in conjunction 6 with whatever else we do. But that's a subject for another 7 day, and we'll get to that. I haven't heard the results of 8 the sale yet. The only result I heard was down from, like, 9 185, 190, something -- somewhere in there, that the numbers 10 were running about on track of what they had in the past. I 11 was a little concerned early on by some of the -- some of the 12 results that I saw, the animals being gaveled down. My sense 13 was that they were a little soft, but I'm told that 180, 190, 14 somewhere along in there is pretty much due course, so we'll 15 wait until we get the final number. Let's go ahead and get 16 on with our agenda. We've got a few items to attend to 17 today. First item is to consider, discuss, and take 18 appropriate action on reducing registration fees to one 19 dollar during the rabies drive. Ms. Whitt? 20 MS. WHITT: Good morning. We have our rabies drive 21 coming up, which will be Saturday, February 6th, from 1:00 to 22 3:00. We are asking that you approve reducing the 23 registration fee to one dollar. Now, so you know, there has 24 been a couple of changes this year. The vets have -- have 25 asked, number one, that we advertise no checks, no credit 1-25-10 15 1 cards, strictly cash. And also, they are raising the 2 vaccination rates by two dollars, so it will no longer be $6; 3 it'll be $8. And if we don't agree to this, then they've 4 decided they no longer want to do it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and with that, the 6 vaccination is no longer a -- an annual event now, because of 7 the medicine they use. It's -- you don't have to vaccinate 8 every year; it's every three years now. 9 MS. WHITT: Well, it's three years in the county. 10 It's still one year in the city. I am working with the city 11 on changing that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, the -- what I'm 13 -- my point is, though, is that -- that that $2 increase is 14 well worth it. 15 MS. WHITT: Yeah, absolutely. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's very -- that's 17 reasonable, very reasonable. They're still losing money on 18 this. It's more of a public service. 19 MS. WHITT: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval, with the -- 23 what changes you recommend. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 1-25-10 16 1 indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion? 2 All in favor of that motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 8 to Item 2. That is a report to Commissioners Court of the 9 total moneys collected by the Court Compliance for calendar 10 year 2009. 11 MS. LYLE: Good morning. Just wanted to report to 12 Commissioners Court my first full year after I've taken over 13 Court Compliance. And I'm happy to report we've collected 14 over $825,000 for the year for the county. Earliest data 15 that I have to be able to report from Odyssey collections in 16 the prior years is as of May 2006, so 2006 is only going to 17 be from May till the end of the year. And that's due to 18 the -- it's just getting Odyssey in 2006 and no data being 19 reported till May. On Page 2, we kind of give you an 20 analysis of how many payment plans. These are payment plans, 21 not actual cases, but payment plans that are paid in full. 22 From June 2008, since that's when I took over the office was 23 June 2008, through the end of the year, we've had 405 payment 24 plans paid in full. As of December -- I'm sorry, January 25 through December 2009, we've had 811 paid in full. The 1-25-10 17 1 difference between the last full year that collections was in 2 operation before I took over and the first full year, we 3 collected $274,889 more. Total payment plans we have right 4 now, currently we stay pretty close to what we -- we run 5 every month, is 1,787 payment plans. That's something we use 6 all the time. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what you got working right 8 now? 9 MS. LYLE: Yeah, at all -- all the time. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: About 1,800? 11 MS. LYLE: Almost 1,800 payment plans. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Ms. Lyle, let me ask you, is 13 there a way that you can, without a great deal of difficulty, 14 track what has accrued under your payment plans for each 15 court, and what is actually paid? Now, I don't -- I want to 16 try and compare apples to apples, so I don't want to -- I 17 don't want to go back into a prior period. But what accrues 18 during a particular calendar year if an individual's 19 obligated, say, to make $100-a-month payments, the accrual is 20 $1,200 that year, and gauge that as against what was actually 21 collected in that case during that particular period, and 22 then accumulate it as to each of the courts. Is that 23 something you -- you might be able to take a look at and tell 24 us -- I'm looking at percentage of collections accrued. 25 MS. LYLE: I can certainly look into it. I will 1-25-10 18 1 probably have to get with maybe the Auditor's office to 2 assist me in that, but I'm sure that's something we can come 3 up with. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If that's something that you 5 can come up with, I think that would be revealing information 6 as to -- as to where we need to put the pressure, as it were. 7 MS. LYLE: Mm-hmm. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a good report. 10 I thank you for your efforts. 11 MS. LYLE: Thank you. Anybody else? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than just receiving the 13 information, you don't desire any action by the Court? 14 MS. LYLE: No, just wanted to give you a report. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We appreciate the 16 report. Let's move to Item 5, if we might. Consider, 17 discuss, and take appropriate action to authorize Freese and 18 Nichols, Inc., to complete engineering, prepare bid specs, 19 advertise for bids to repair Flat Rock and Ingram Lake Dams, 20 and provide construction representation. Commissioner 21 Williams? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I've got 23 these on the agenda because it's time for us to take a look 24 at repairing our two dams. Commissioner Oehler and I have 25 had a lot of discussions over the last several months about 1-25-10 19 1 how we do this, and we've broken this thing down into three 2 separate items, the first being -- and maybe, Judge, if you 3 don't mind, maybe we can call all three of those items, 4 because they really do end up being interconnected. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have any 6 objection? Let me go ahead and call, in addition to Item 5, 7 Items 6 and 7. Item 6 is to consider, discuss, and take 8 appropriate action to conduct an acoustic bathometric survey 9 of Flat Rock Lake to obtain lake bottom profile and depths 10 and density of silt on the lake bottom, and Item 7 is to 11 consider and discuss information provided by Freese and 12 Nichols regarding general description and typical approach to 13 evaluating and remediating silt accumulation in a typical 14 lake reservoir. Okay, we got them all out on the table now, 15 Commissioner. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. The 17 first item has to do with the dam repairs, and I'd like to 18 introduce to the Court Mr. Les Boyd of Freese and Nichols, 19 who's been working with us on this. They are the engineering 20 firm that officially did the preparation work for the NTD, 21 the nondestructive testing that took place in both dams to 22 determine the extent of the voids underneath the cap. And -- 23 and in all three of these agenda items, we're working from 24 Mr. Boyd's communications to Commissioners Court on that 25 topic. So, Les, would you step us through what you're 1-25-10 20 1 telling us with respect to dam repairs? 2 MR. BOYD: To the dam repairs? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before you get started, I 4 want to make just one point. Excuse me. I want to make the 5 point very clear for the press and the public and the city of 6 Kerrville that the actions that the Court takes today or does 7 not take today, but as we move forward, none of these actions 8 requires the lowering of the lake level. So, let's dismiss 9 that real quick. We're not taking the lake level down, not 10 causing residual problems, and we're going to try to move 11 forward with things that are important to us. Thank you. 12 Les, go ahead. 13 MR. BOYD: Okay. The repair item is basically 14 based upon the nondestructive test program that was done 15 approximately a year and a half ago. There's some voids 16 under the caps on both of the two dams, and the program to 17 put that to rest is to go through with a series of groutings 18 wherein you drill holes through the concrete and you inject 19 grout, and you have bleed holes where you can chase the grout 20 out and try to get a solid foundation beneath the crest of 21 the dam. The problem with it is, if you don't have that, 22 you'll continue to get erosion beneath the cap, and 23 eventually you'll erode enough soil beneath the cap that the 24 cap will collapse, and then the dam will be in jeopardy. So, 25 the idea is to -- to do the best we can to identify the 1-25-10 21 1 number of voids, drill the holes, and grout them. It's a 2 very unknown quantity at this time. We took the data from 3 the nondestructive testing, and assumed a general void area 4 and did a volume calculation on that, and that's the basis 5 for the quantities that we -- we've used thus far. That's 6 not to say it won't be more, it won't be less, until we get 7 out and actually start doing it. There is also a period of 8 time of greater than a year in which it's been subjected to 9 some floods and some additional movement of materials, 10 perhaps, beneath the cap. So, this -- we think this is a 11 range of what we would expect for hiring a grouting 12 contractor to come out and basically do a "fit to the needs" 13 type solution. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From this point forward, 15 then, what would be the -- what would be the order of the 16 process? 17 MR. BOYD: What we would do is assemble a set of 18 project plans and specifications to put out for -- for public 19 bid, try to get as many bids as we can. Right now, the 20 bidding world is pretty good. Construction industry's a 21 little slow, so on projects where, in the past, we had 22 received four or five bids, we now get maybe as many as 12, 23 so it's a good time to be out trying to get this work done. 24 But we'd assemble plans and specifications, advertise it for 25 bid, evaluate those bids, and then make a recommendation to 1-25-10 22 1 the Court as to which bid to accept. And then we also have 2 in there a construction representation, wherein, while the 3 grouting contractor's there, we would observe what he's doing 4 and assure that it's adequate, or as best to our ability that 5 it's adequate. The T.C.E.Q. will be involved in that. 6 You'll wind up needing to submit the repair set of plans to 7 them and get their approval on it, and they want to know that 8 it's been basically observed or inspected by qualified 9 professionals. And then, when it's completed, we'll have to 10 certify and send them a completion letter. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we're talking in this 12 case, the amount that you're recommending or are indicating 13 that it might cost is for both Flat Rock Lake and Ingram Dam? 14 MR. BOYD: That's correct. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. When we did the NTD 16 testing, we did not lower the level of the lake, and there 17 was some discussion that maybe we had not identified clearly 18 all the voids that are in there. And in subsequent 19 discussions you and I have had, we talked about how maybe to 20 do that. Would you enlighten the Court about that for just a 21 second? 22 MR. BOYD: The -- we ran, like, I think three lines 23 of -- of basically a sonar; you sound and see what -- the 24 time it takes to get the signals back. Gives you a plot of 25 what you think the -- the void areas are, and then the firm 1-25-10 23 1 that did that does that very often, and they gave us a set of 2 plots and a -- their best estimate of the void areas that 3 they expect to be under the caps. I don't really feel like 4 there's a big advantage to going and doing more of that. 5 There's -- they've identified that the problem's there. To 6 quantify it, you'd spend as much -- not as much, but you 7 could spend a very large sum of money quantifying that, 8 whereas you could spend that same money towards getting it 9 repaired. So, it's our opinion that the thing to do is to 10 proceed with it and address the voids as it exists instead of 11 trying to quantify them at this time. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: So, if the Court acts today, -- 14 MR. BOYD: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- the potential exposure of the 16 Court would be for the preliminary engineering to put 17 together the plans and the specs and -- and the other 18 associated engineering matters, and is that the -- the 12,000 19 figure that we're looking at? 20 MR. BOYD: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's step one? 22 MR. BOYD: Yes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And then step two would be if we 24 proceed later down the road, after getting that information 25 in-hand, to authorize bid -- requests for bids, we get the 1-25-10 24 1 bids, act on the bids, and then we would be looking at 2 whatever the bid -- bid comes in at that we accept, plus the 3 construction representation? 4 MR. BOYD: That's correct. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Which, of course, you folks would be 6 involved in, and follow up to the T.C.E.Q. and all those -- 7 all those other sorts of things. 8 MR. BOYD: That's correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question, Judge, on that. 11 'Cause I'm looking at -- I'm looking at a spreadsheet. It 12 says that plans and specs -- it's under engineering. It says 13 plans and specs, bidding, and award, 11,603. That's the 14 12,000. So, the 12,000 gets us through the whole bidding 15 process? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that correct? 17 MR. BOYD: Yes. It just doesn't get you the -- I 18 mean, you have the bids and our recommendation of award, and 19 then you have to proceed from there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we -- so, I mean, you 21 don't -- there's no -- I mean, we need to make sure we have 22 the money before we do the 12,000. I mean, there's no reason 23 to bid -- we can do the engineering first, but there's no 24 reason to bid it until we know we have the money to pay for 25 the bids. Otherwise, we're wasting money. 1-25-10 25 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's true. We 2 can't go to bid unless we know we can pay for it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, how much of the 12,000 is 5 just the engineering portion of it that we could -- or is it 6 even worthwhile? I mean, it's not worthwhile, so we just 7 go -- we need to go ahead and probably do the engineering and 8 bid it, and then if we don't have the money -- well, we have 9 to have money before you can do that step. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, exactly. We 11 anticipate that that will be in place. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So, essentially, if the Court takes 13 action today, we're looking at the engineering phase, which 14 is exposure for approximately $12,000. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line, that'll get us to the 17 point where we can advertise for bids, and through that 18 process, and where they can make a recommendation on any bids 19 that are received. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much, Bill, Bruce, 23 or Jeannie, did we put in the budget for this project? 24 MS. HARGIS: I think we have about -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Quarter of a million. 1-25-10 26 1 MS. HARGIS: We have -- we have 250 for this part 2 of it, but we also put more in there for the water project. 3 I want to say -- is it four? 400, I think. At least 400. 4 We may have gone up to five. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we have enough money 6 budgeted for this project, okay. That's -- I just wanted to 7 make sure we had the money budgeted for what we thought it 8 was going to cost. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we put some extra in 10 there. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's included in the 12 capital plan. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the first item, then, 15 would be for the Court to authorize the -- Freese and Nichols 16 to complete the engineering and prepare bid specifications 17 and advertise for bids to repair Flat Rock and Ingram Lake 18 Dams. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And approve the funding to -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And approve the funding 21 necessary. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: For approximately $12,000. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of $12,000, right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is a motion. 1-25-10 27 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 3 Further question or discussion on that motion? All in favor 4 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 9 phase whatever. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The next item is the 11 acoustic bathometric survey. I have a problem with saying 12 all of that, because I have a problem understanding all of 13 that, and so that's why -- the reason why Mr. Boyd is with us 14 here today. Les, if you would be so good as to step us 15 through the acoustic bathometric survey of Flat Rock Lake and 16 what we would hope to gain from that exercise. 17 MR. BOYD: Okay. The first thing with the silt -- 18 addressing the silt item is to quantify how much you have, 19 whether you've got 100 yards of it or 100,000 yards of it. 20 And you don't presently have any previous surveys. The 21 problem with getting a silt survey is, silt's stacked up; you 22 need to know what the profile of the top of the silt is, and 23 you need know what the profile of the reservoir is beneath 24 the silt so that you can take that difference and come up 25 with a quantity. So, what you eventually do is you just 1-25-10 28 1 dissect the reservoir every so often and then run a -- a 2 bathometric survey, which is basically a sonar mounting on a 3 boat, and it -- they have the capability now to where he can 4 sound and pick the density between the top of the silt and 5 the bottom, so he can identify in that the profiles of both 6 the top of the silt and the reservoir. That's something that 7 hasn't been around, I don't think, a very long time. 8 And we've used it -- this same particular gentleman 9 that's presenting it here has worked for us on some areas in 10 north Texas doing these silt surveys, and the expense of the 11 silt survey comes from how accurate you want the information, 12 whether you slice it three times or 300 times through the 13 length of the reservoir. And he's put together a price -- 14 basically, what he'll do, it will take him the better part of 15 two or three days to set up his equipment, dissect the lake. 16 You'll wind up with a computer set of points that only a 17 mainframe computer can solve. He'll come back through and 18 give us a -- a volume of silt that he expects to be in the 19 reservoir based on the information that he's obtained. 20 That's the first step in it. If you didn't choose to do it 21 with a bathometric survey, you would need to hire surveyors, 22 and they would be shooting lines in boats across the 23 reservoir, trying to determine by dropping something -- or a 24 rod to where the silt starts and where the bottom of the 25 reservoir is. It gets very slow, cumbersome, and probably 1-25-10 29 1 more expensive than doing it this way. So, this is -- this 2 is a GPS system that's -- that's set up along with the sonar. 3 And -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you have any idea what the 5 cost of that is? 6 MR. BOYD: Say it again? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you have any idea what the 8 cost may be? 9 MR. BOYD: This one he has quoted, he's given us 10 two levels of precision, and depending on which precision you 11 want, it's between $14,000 and $30,000. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think we need to be 14 too precise. I think we're just trying to get a good 15 estimate. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The 15 percent, if I read the 17 information correctly, the low end of it, the 15 percent, the 18 engineer feels comfortable that he can successfully 19 interpolate that to really give us a good idea of the volume 20 that we have in there, if I understood the material 21 correctly. 22 MR. BOYD: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is just to do Flat 24 Rock, correct? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 1-25-10 30 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't need to do -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not Ingram. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not necessary. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would we want that 5 information? 6 MR. BOYD: Because there -- can I skip to Item 7? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, please. Please do. 8 MR. BOYD: This was presented to you along with 9 Item 7, which is a letter that details how you go about 10 addressing silt in a reservoir. And the first item of 11 business is to determine how much silt you have. And until 12 you know that, you can't really develop a plan for addressing 13 it, or a means of removing it. So, if we put together Item 14 7 -- and this is basically a step-by-step menu on -- on 15 typically how you would address a silt issue. And you 16 quantify the quantity of silt in the reservoir, and that's 17 Item 1 on that letter. And the easiest way to do that is 18 with one of these bathometric surveys. Or you can do it with 19 a physical survey, and that will give you the quantity of 20 silt that you're trying to deal with, okay? After you've 21 quantified what you're dealing with, then you need to 22 characterize it by running tests on the silt to see if it has 23 any contaminants in it that you're going to have to deal 24 with, because it could have -- I don't know all of the 25 facilities around here, but if you have chrome plating or 1-25-10 31 1 electrical manufacturing, fertilizers, agricultural uses, 2 some of the different things can contribute toxins in various 3 contaminants to silt, so you -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that EPA, or is there a rule 5 that makes us do that? Because, obviously, we live here, and 6 I don't think we have anything that's going to be 7 contaminants into the lake, you know, other than just runoff 8 from nature. 9 MR. BOYD: Well, you will have to characterize it, 10 because you're going to have to dispose of it somewhere. And 11 when it comes time to dispose of it, someone's not going to 12 take it if they don't know exactly what it is, okay? And 13 that's the reason you have to characterize it. And then 14 after you've got it characterized, depending on -- if it's 15 not contaminated, how are you going to remove it? And you 16 can -- there are several methods. You can go in with a 17 backhoe or clamshell and dig it out, put it in trucks and 18 haul it away. Or they have dredges, hydraulic dredges, 19 basically a pump mounted on a barge that can suck the silt 20 off the bottom of the lake, pump it on shore, put it in 21 drying beds, pick it up and take it to another site. So, the 22 disposal method is going to depend. If you had some 23 contaminants in it, it's going to have to be handled in a 24 completely different method. It would probably have to go 25 into lined ponds so it didn't dissipate in the soil. So 1-25-10 32 1 until you know all those front-end things, it's hard to 2 develop a plan for it. Then comes -- after you've determined 3 how much silt and what's in it and where you're going to put 4 it, then you start trying to get the permits. And you're 5 going to have to go to the state to get a permit to dispose 6 of it. If things went well and it wasn't contaminated, you 7 had a rancher somewhere that needed some -- and it's good and 8 fertile, you might work out a deal with him and just simply 9 get the permits based on that. If it's contaminated and you 10 have to put it in a -- a classified landfill, then there's -- 11 the cost just goes up astronomically. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They almost make it 13 impossible to do, don't they, Bill? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Getting very close. 15 MR. BOYD: Well, what happens -- you say you want 16 to get rid of the silt. That's a good thing to do, but 17 you've got to go through some various steps. And I didn't 18 want to lead you down a rosy path and say, "Oh, yeah, we can 19 get rid of it for $2 a yard," and find out, you know, it's 20 got some PCP's or whatever it happens to be. So, really just 21 need to do kind of a due diligence type approach to it to 22 quantify and characterize it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This will tell us whether we 24 can or can't. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 1-25-10 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or how much we're going to 2 be dealing with, all of that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Does this initial phase, if we 4 authorize that, does that include a determination if there 5 are any contaminants within this silt? 6 MR. BOYD: The bathometric survey that you have 7 right now does not do any testing. It just does a volume 8 quantification. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- but then we'd have to 10 go into taking some core-type samples. 11 MR. BOYD: Have to get someone to take -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And do this under the 13 scenario that we're speaking to right now. 14 MR. BOYD: Yes, someone would need to develop an 15 acceptable sampling plan, number of tests, types of tests. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of dollars and cents, what 17 are we looking at to accomplish that, ballpark? 18 MR. BOYD: Per test? Say again, please? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The plan. In order to be able to 20 have a valid sample so that it'll pass muster with Corps of 21 Engineers, E.P.A., T.C.E.Q., A.B.C.D., whomever -- 22 MR. BOYD: Right. You would basically -- we have 23 environmentalists. They could put together a plan for us on 24 sampling, give us a certified laboratory that could perform 25 the test and determine what number of tests you would want. 1-25-10 34 1 I can't speak to the cost of the tests, because you don't 2 know yet what they would be. You know, there are some that 3 are real easy and quick and cheap, and there's some that are 4 slow and expensive, and so until that part developed -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we need to know the amount we've 6 got in there first, really? 7 MR. BOYD: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. BOYD: Yeah, because if you only got over in 10 one pocket of the lake, you may just need one sample. If 11 it's from the top end to the bottom end, you may need 25 12 samples. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. BOYD: So I can't -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to -- one thing we 16 need to remember. 17 MR. BOYD: I can't really answer that. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One thing we need to remember 19 is, we don't -- we don't need to be doing any testing or any 20 of this stuff over on the other people's side. It needs to 21 be on the county's side to the middle of the lake, basically. 22 The channel is going to be on the south side of Flat Rock, 23 closer to those homes and stuff over there. The county's 24 part basically goes -- follows that channel to the north -- 25 or to northeast. 1-25-10 35 1 MR. BOYD: All right. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So we don't really need -- I 3 don't -- in my opinion, we don't need to test for amounts or 4 any of that sort of thing that we're not planning on removing 5 under what we're -- what we can pay for or what we can spend 6 funds on. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- Bruce, I mean, the 8 lake's ours. The fact that they own property next to it 9 doesn't mean -- I mean, we own the lake from shore to shore. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right, but you don't own the 11 dirt in it, I don't think. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't own what? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know that we own all 14 the silt in it. I think we -- I don't think there's any 15 question to the part that we actually have deed to it. But a 16 lot of those other folks, even though they sit on the water, 17 they can clean up their own, just like the city of Kerrville 18 owns that by the state -- by the park. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to -- Ilse, are 20 you listening? We need to have a determination of who owns 21 the silt, because -- really, before we do. Because, I mean, 22 you know, I think that -- I mean, logic tells me that most of 23 it's going to be near Flat Rock Park, because that's just the 24 way the river runs. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 1-25-10 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think before we start going 2 there and doing something, we need to find out who owns it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree with that. 4 But we're not going to go in there and start doing that until 5 we've made a determination of what it is, how much we're 6 dealing with, so we know the magnitude of that project. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But I think we still -- 10 I think no matter how much, we'd want to go from shore to 11 shore. 12 MR. BOYD: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whether we do it over there -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause that's not going to cost 16 that much. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least it wouldn't be that 18 much more to add that little bit. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'd get a better profile of 20 the river. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think your point is 22 really valid. The County Attorney can address that in terms 23 of ownership of silt within the lake itself, which we had 24 defined as -- as Flat Rock Lake. And some of this comes into 25 play when you do the contours of the bottom, you have a 1-25-10 37 1 better understanding what you're dealing with on both sides 2 of that lake. 3 MR. BOYD: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- okay. Go ahead, Les. 5 I'm sorry. 6 MR. BOYD: Okay. The next -- the next step after 7 you had the -- the permits obtained, you would put together a 8 set of construction plans for dredging or excavating silt 9 from the lake, disposing of it off-site. When you get the 10 cost for trucking and the disposal fees and all that stuff, 11 it will be put together in a bid package that would come to 12 you for evaluation, and then select that contractor that you 13 want to proceed with the work and get the project going. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In order to do the -- the 15 batho -- acoustic bathometric survey, whatever it is, there 16 is a construction -- there is a document you'd have to 17 prepare for that as well before another firm is engaged? 18 MR. BOYD: We -- we could do a subcontract to that 19 BranchWater Services, or you -- the County could deal with 20 them directly. But you will need to tell them the accuracy 21 that you want in the survey, meet with them if you do that, 22 or we can do it with kind of an oversight charge. And you're 23 probably looking at, you know, a few -- few hours worth of 24 work two or three times to get the information to them, to 25 look at what they put together, and to decide whether it's a 1-25-10 38 1 reasonable approach. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, about $1,000 for your fee? 4 MR. BOYD: Probably on that -- I don't know. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: He's tight. 6 MR. BOYD: He is, isn't he? (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was thinking about 550 or 8 600. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You guys are good 10 negotiators. So, the issue before the Court, really, today 11 is the second issue. Do we want to quantify what we've got 12 in the lake bottom? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At some point, we need to. I 14 think now's as good a time as any. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can't do anything else 16 until we know what we're dealing with. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree with you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think as long as the fee's 19 reasonable, not to exceed $1,000, I think I'd rather have 20 them coordinate it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would rather have them 22 coordinate it, for certain. I don't want to coordinate it, 23 'cause I don't -- I can't even say what it is we're doing. 24 MR. BOYD: We'd be glad to help. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, we're back to 1-25-10 39 1 the second issue in terms of the acoustic bathometric survey, 2 and the question is how deep we want to go and how much we 3 want to know. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it seems to me that the 5 -- the $14,000 amount would be sufficient to give us an idea 6 as to a rough -- the 15 percent, how much is there. Add 7 1,000 to that, so we have $15,000. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you concur with that, 9 Les? 10 MR. BOYD: I do. I can't speak for this gentleman. 11 This is just his take at it from an aerial map, and his 12 general procedures. He will need to come out and take a look 13 at the site on the ground and see if he's got -- somebody's 14 got a 20-foot-high fence he can't get across like that or 15 something. But I would look for it to be in this range, but 16 I'd hate to tie it straight to the 14,000 when he was giving 17 you a range. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe it would be a better 19 approach if we invited him down to take a look at the lake, 20 so forth and so on, and then bring his information to the 21 Court, like you've been so good in bringing your information 22 to us. 23 MR. BOYD: And he's -- and that may be a cost he 24 can absorb up front, you know, and he'd probably be glad to 25 do so. He had an e-mail to me before I came. He sent it 1-25-10 40 1 Friday, I believe, and I replied to him that this was on the 2 agenda today and I would get back to him. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll invite him down for 4 that purpose, and then if we determine to move forward with 5 him based on his findings in the lake and actually looking at 6 the lake, your firm would do the oversight for us on that; is 7 that correct? 8 MR. BOYD: That's fine. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. BOYD: Glad to do so. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on those three items, 12 gentlemen? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Thank you very much, 14 Les, for coming, and I really appreciate it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate it. Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm wondering, do you 18 think that the silt ownership will rise to the level of 19 cattle guards? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If so, we can take them out 21 to Wilson Creek Road. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See? See how easy this is? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got a solution. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Governing, there's nothing 25 to it. 1-25-10 41 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just got to think outside 2 the box -- outside the cattle guard. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, I will recess the 4 Commissioners Court meeting, and I will open a public hearing 5 as our 9:30 item, which we've run past, Item 3. 6 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:52 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 7 court, as follows:) 8 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I will convene a public hearing for 10 the revision of plat for Lots 132 and 133 of Vistas 11 Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, and located in 12 Precinct 4. Is there any member of the public that wishes to 13 be heard with respect to the revision of plat for Lots 132 14 and 133 of Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, 15 located in Precinct 4? Seeing no one coming forward, I will 16 close the public hearing for the revision of plat for Lots 17 132 and 133 of Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates. 18 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:52 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 19 reopened.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 22 Commissioners Court hearing. And we will go to Item 4, which 23 is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 24 approve the final revision of plat for Lots 132 and 133 of 25 Vistas Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, and located in 1-25-10 42 1 Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 2 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. This is a revision 3 of plat in Precinct 4 and in Cypress Springs. The property 4 owners wish to combine two lots into one, and at this time, 5 we ask the Court for their approval of the final revision of 6 the plat for Lots 132 and 133 into one lot, 132R, of Vistas 7 Escondidas de Cypress Springs Estates, Precinct 4. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the agenda item. Further question or discussion 12 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 13 raising your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 18 Item 11. That agenda item is to consider, discuss, and take 19 appropriate action for permission to sell surplus equipment 20 and scrap metal and use proceeds to purchase additional 21 equipment. Mr. Odom? 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. You see before you the 23 pictures and the different various items that we wish to 24 sell. This is scrap metal as well as pieces of old equipment 25 that we have there that have been -- we feel like is excess, 1-25-10 43 1 and would like for the Court to declare it as such. Also, 2 you'll find the list as well as pictures, and then also 3 attached to that, we gave you a list of equipment, if we have 4 enough money, we would like to look at to purchase with this 5 surplus money. And we ask for your approval to sell it, as 6 well as to approve the possibility of purchasing the list of 7 equipment. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, how do you -- are you 9 going to do, like, an auction like we did last time we sold? 10 MR. ODOM: Well, my understanding, this 11 govdeals.com is what we were going to go through -- is what 12 we were referred to, which is on the internet. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. Isn't that -- yeah, I 14 guess one time we did eBay; one time we had an actual 15 auction. But, yeah, this kind of stuff will bring 16 potentially a little bit of money -- I mean, a fair amount of 17 money. 18 MR. ODOM: We think it will bring us some pretty 19 good money. Maybe the bids may come from south of the 20 border, but we think like some of this equipment is still 21 usable. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of it is usable, is it 23 not? 24 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or runs? 1-25-10 44 1 MR. ODOM: It is. And while I'm thinking about it, 2 before I forget, on our list here of the equipment, Item 15 3 we discussed this morning, was that V-10 Dodge pickup, that 4 3500 series, dually. We're going to take that out. The 5 supervisors discussed wanting to try to keep that to use that 6 as a backup, as well as for Tommy Bridges to use at night 7 when he's called out sometimes. But I'm sort of thin on 8 backup in case a supervisor's truck goes down. And being a 9 V-10, I don't want to run it too much, so it won't be run 10 that much. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So, you want to remove Item 15? 12 MR. ODOM: I want to remove Item 15, yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: From what you wished to have 14 declared surplus? 15 MR. ODOM: Right. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I noticed you had another 17 couple of items up here under -- looks like 6 and 7, or 7 and 18 8, I'm not sure exactly which ones. 19 MR. ODOM: Backhoe, yes, sir. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: "Take off the side loader?" "Keep 21 the bed?" Some notations here. Are all those items -- 6, 7, 22 8, and 9, so forth, all the other items to remain as part of 23 what you wish to have declared surplus? And so -- 24 MR. ODOM: I'm -- ask me again, Judge? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On your -- on your equipment 1-25-10 45 1 listing here, -- 2 MR. ODOM: Uh-huh. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- you've got some notations out to 4 the right in that roster to "Take off the side loader?" 5 Question mark. "Keep the bed?" Question mark. 6 MR. ODOM: Okay. What we have is a couple of 7 trucks that are -- have been salvaged for parts off the old 8 6-yard, so you may have a cabin chassis that's not workable 9 and have a dump bed on it, and we want to try to maybe take 10 that dump bed, which is in excellent condition, and sell it 11 and use maybe the cab and chassis as -- as surplus, or 12 somebody may want to buy the whole thing. We feel that 13 there's value in the dump bed, even if the truck may not be 14 of value right now. We may have taken an axle off or 15 something, and which we do have back there. So, a side 16 loader that's old and beat, that's not workable for us. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, everything else on that 18 list, other than that Dodge 3500, remains -- 19 MR. ODOM: To be sold. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: -- to be declared surplus and sold? 21 MR. ODOM: That's right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I certainly have no problem 24 with declaring everything surplus. Once you gets the funds, 25 I might want to look at the list of where you spend the 1-25-10 46 1 money. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 MR. ODOM: Well, certainly, we gave -- that list 4 was to give you an idea of where it's at, and we can 5 certainly come to the Court at that point. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to approve 7 the list to declare the items surplus as recommended, with 8 the inclusion of removing the -- Item 15? 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Dodge 3500. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 15, the Dodge 3500 pickup. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And authorize the sale on 13 govdeals.com? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, and authorize the sale 15 on govdeals.com. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second as 17 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 18 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's move to 24 Item 12, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 25 accept Misty Lane in Megan Manor Subdivision for maintenance, 1-25-10 47 1 and release of Surety Bond Number 060170271788. Mr. Odom? 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is a project that's been 3 going on for some time. We had some difficulties with 4 finishing. I've had Wayne out there to take a look at it, as 5 well as myself, and -- and at this time, we ask the Court to 6 accept Misty Lane for maintenance and release the C.N.A. 7 surety bond, which is in Precinct 4. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 11 approval of the agenda item. You said "C.N.A." The backup 12 material talks about Western Surety. 13 MR. ODOM: Well, I'm sorry. I -- what I have, it 14 sure does. C.N.A., I don't -- that is a surety bond, 15 060170271788. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. That's in the agenda item, 17 and on the bond number list. 18 MR. ODOM: Kelly, do you have an answer to that? 19 MS. HOFFER: Yeah. If you look at the -- let's see 20 what page it would be. Right after Wayne's invoice, if you 21 look at the next one, that top one, it was a faxed copy. 22 That was the most recent when they did the renewal on this 23 last one. If you look at the very top, it's C.N.A. Surety. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. HOFFER: The upper left. The other ones are 1-25-10 48 1 from the past, because it was such a long project; for, like, 2 two and a half, three years is how long this project went on. 3 That last one was the most recent, and that was the renewal. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: C.N.A. and/or Western Surety or 5 both, as the case may be. 6 MR. ODOM: Yeah. You can see it up there at the 7 top, it's C.N.A. Surety, which is another name. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? 9 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 10 hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's look 15 at Item 13 quickly. Consider, discuss, and take appropriate 16 action on request from the Child Services Board to use a 17 portion of the courthouse square for a display during the 18 month of April for Child Abuse Awareness Month. Commissioner 19 Baldwin? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. The Kerr 21 County Child Services Board is requesting permission to 22 display multiple boy- and girl-shaped signs on paint 23 stick-type stakes, one for each child currently in C.P.S. 24 care. As of January, there were 136. These will be 25 displayed throughout the month of April as part of Child 1-25-10 49 1 Abuse Awareness Month activities. There will also be a sign 2 posted with the cutouts explaining what they mean and giving 3 some child abuse statistics. The board thinks that the 4 visual impact of the high number of signs will be a great 5 awareness tool. And this Commissioner agrees with that 6 100 percent. I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 10 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. It is 15 10 o'clock, so we will go to our first 10 o'clock timed item. 16 Number 8, and that will be to open bids for the proposed Law 17 Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation building, and refer bids to 18 appropriate personnel for consideration and recommendation. 19 The first bid that we have is from Kendall -- Kendnel Kasper 20 Construction, Incorporated. I'm just going to read the total 21 of all of the various bid packages by each bidder. 22 The first bidder, Kendnel Kasper Construction, 23 $1,044,046. The second one is from Central Builders, Inc. 24 The total, $1,616,974. The next bid is from W.R. 25 Construction, Inc. Total is $1,262,415. Next bid is from 1-25-10 50 1 R.M. Techcon Construction. The total is $1,208,900. Next 2 bid is from Suburban Construction Company, $1,240,000. Next 3 bid is from Keller-Martin Organization, Inc., $1,122,000. 4 Next bid is from Huser Construction Company, Inc. The amount 5 is $1,064,735. Next bid is from J.M. Lowe and Company. The 6 bid is $1,142,500. Next bid is from D. Bandy Constructors -- 7 D.L. Bandy Constructors, Inc. $1,126,000. The next one is 8 from D. Wilson Construction Company, $1,137,000. Next one is 9 from Merrell General Contracting, L.L.C., $1,102,986. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 86? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: 986. Next one is from Select 12 Building Systems, Inc. d/b/a S.B.S. Construction, $1,165,053. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last one, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The last one is from Zuber 15 Construction, Inc. $1,178,849. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept all bids and 17 refer them to Peter Lewis for review and recommendation. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that emotion. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 20 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 21 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, who was -- 1-25-10 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who did you want to hand it 3 to? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pewter Lewis. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And group? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And group? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this -- is Peter doing it 8 by himself? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Peter Lewis Architects. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And will there be -- 11 MR. LEWIS: I'll do it in consult with the Judge, 12 as has been our -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably need Tim and Leonard 14 involved, too. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tim and Leonard. That's 16 what I'm looking for, thank you. And I see, Peter, that you 17 brought the heavyweight with you. 18 MR. LEWIS: I brought Gary, yes, if you want 19 something done. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. We appreciate your 22 interest, gentlemen. Our next 10 o'clock item is Item 9; 23 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding property 24 appraisal report from TAC, Texas Association of Counties. 25 Courthouse appraisal value increased to historical 1-25-10 52 1 reproduction cost. Ms. Hargis? Ms. Soldan? 2 MS. HARGIS: At the Court's request, we went back 3 to check some of the values, and we -- we presented you with 4 a memo regarding the courthouse itself. And we did get a 5 little bit of help from our local group over here. It 6 appears that, you know, we have two ways to go with this, 7 because it's a stone building. We either pick, you know, if 8 it totally is destroyed, or we pick if it's just burned. So, 9 I kind of need y'all's explanation as to what you'd like to 10 do. If -- because it is a stone building. It's a masonry 11 building that the -- generally, the Historic Commission 12 doesn't feel like it's going to totally burn down, so 13 therefore, they're estimating 300 a foot. If you want to say 14 it's going to be totally destroyed, then we need to go to 15 $400 to $500 a foot. So, it's up to the Court. We'll insure 16 it for -- you know, we need to go up definitely, but it's up 17 to you as to -- as to the extent. It's kind of a -- you 18 know, as you -- you've got your slab and different things 19 like that, that, you know, are going to still be intact, or 20 should be, unless we have a hurricane or something like that. 21 For a fire -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Are we looking at the replacement 23 cost, essentially? 24 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So, the issue is replacement cost. 1-25-10 53 1 And we're looking at this portion, the older portion? 2 MS. HARGIS: The historical part of the building. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You got any off the top of 4 your head thoughts, Mr. Lewis? 5 MR. LEWIS: Well, in fact, Tracy had consulted with 6 me for the last couple weeks, and I've researched -- we don't 7 do a lot of work like this for restoration, but I talked to 8 some folks that do, including Mary Wagner. I talked with a 9 friend of mine that teaches and had worked at Texas Historic 10 Commission, and we kind of came up with a range. And the 11 concept of the building not being totally destroyed came from 12 them. They said, typically, a -- you know, these older 13 courthouses, a fire will get all the wood pieces, but the 14 stone will be there, as Jeannie said, and the foundation will 15 be there. And they had some recent -- among my 16 conversations, had some recent comparables, and that's where 17 we came up with this $290, $300 a foot. And, again, if you 18 -- if this -- you had an earthquake and this thing sunk into 19 a pit, you had to replace it, that's going to be on the top 20 end of -- I think she said $500 a foot. And then we know 21 pretty much what it costs to build a building like the annex 22 using conventional construction. And that was sort of my 23 game plan. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the difference in 25 premium? I mean, it is negligible, I would think, on 1-25-10 54 1 something like that. 2 MS. HARGIS: You know, it's -- it's by 100,000 3 usually. I don't imagine it's extreme. I won't know until 4 we submit it. They're waiting for us to give them a value to 5 submit. So, we can submit both and see what the premium's 6 going to be, and then you can decide on that. It's however 7 y'all want to do it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd probably err with putting 9 in the higher number, because I don't -- I think it's going 10 to cost hardly anything more to do the higher number than the 11 lower number. If you do the higher number, they know that 12 it'll still probably only be 300. And they -- you know, they 13 know their actual -- or they're going to figure out what it 14 should be. I'd say go with the higher number. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with Commissioner 16 Letz; I think he's on the right trail this morning. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the recommendation of 18 the Auditor to take the 9.5 -- 19 MS. HARGIS: Do you want the 400 or do you want 20 500? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those the two numbers 22 that are -- 23 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it's between 400 and 500, we can 24 go for. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 450 is fine. 1-25-10 55 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 450's fine. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3 MS. HARGIS: I'll still get the bid for both, just 4 in case. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I noticed that the memo said we have 6 until February the 2nd. 7 MS. HARGIS: Right, or they're going to adopt what 8 they gave us, so we need to get it in to them now so they 9 don't -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: They gave -- they presented us with a 12 list, which you have a copy of, and they told us that we have 13 until February the 2nd to dispute that list. Otherwise, 14 they're going to raise to those values. Because -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: If we want to increase coverage, can 16 we do that after February the 2nd, I guess, is my question. 17 MS. HARGIS: We probably can, but I think it's 18 going to get more complicated if we do that. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the reason for my asking the 20 question is, if that's the case, I think it's appropriate to 21 pass an order that we obtain coverage on the courthouse -- 22 the annex is okay insofar as how they computed that. As to 23 the older part of the courthouse, based on $450 a square 24 foot. 25 MS. HARGIS: Right. 1-25-10 56 1 JUDGE TINLEY: In order to nail this thing down and 2 let you go forward prior to February 2. 3 MS. HARGIS: I appreciate that. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a motion to that 5 effect? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 9 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 10 raising your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's go to our 15 10:10 item. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action to go 16 out for annual bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, 17 emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. Mr. Odom? 18 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We're having our annual bids 19 now. We're asking the Court to give authority for us to go 20 out for these bids on road base, cold mix, aggregate, 21 emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. Once we put out the 22 bids, we will come back to the Court, open the bids on 23 March 8th, 2010, at 10 o'clock, Commissioners Court, and 24 follow up the following meeting, March the 22nd, 2010, at 25 10 a.m., to award it. 1-25-10 57 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 10 Item -- Section 4 of the agenda, payment of the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 14 bills. Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 15 signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: As was done previously, we received 20 a register of the direct payables, January 14 and January 21. 21 These are outside of the normal listing that we get on the 22 bills that we just approved. Do I hear a motion that those 23 direct payables, as shown by those two registers, be 24 approved? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 1-25-10 58 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second, with a question. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 3 direct payables, as shown by two registers, be approved. 4 Question or discussion on the motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It appears there's -- a lot of 6 these are insurance-related. Is there a reason that they go 7 differently? I figured there would be. Can you tell me what 8 the difference is, just -- 9 MS. HYDE: Two things. One, when they go through 10 the payable process, because of time limitations, we only 11 have five days to get these payments in. They can't turn 12 them that quickly. We've put as many things through the 13 payable system that we can. Jeannie and I talk about it 14 quite regularly, 'cause sometimes they don't go through as 15 fast as we want them to. But that's why. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 MS. HYDE: They have to be paid. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: These are payments that are normally 19 made on behalf of our employees? 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. And those -- just so you 21 know, those are also reviewed, not by name, but by totals, 22 with Mindy and Ms. Hargis before they are approved for 23 payment. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question. 25 MS. HYDE: Counter-check and check. 1-25-10 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do we provide the 3 Direct TV satellite services? For what department? 4 Sheriff's Office? 5 MS. HYDE: Direct TV? 6 MS. HARGIS: Actually, I actually think that's 7 the -- 8 MS. HYDE: J.D.C. 9 MS. HARGIS: Out at the J.D.C., yeah. Out at 10 juvenile, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Juvenile? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shoot, I thought everybody 13 knew that, Bill. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Good question. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought everybody knew 16 that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that where you go to 18 watch cartoons? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 21 MS. HARGIS: That's why we want you to see them 22 all. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 24 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 25 your right hand. 1-25-10 60 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget 5 amendments. We've got two budget amendment requests as shown 6 on the summary. Do I hear a motion that they be approved 7 as -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- indicated on the summary? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the Budget Amendment Requests 1 and 2 shown on 14 the summary. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 15 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Any late 20 bills? 21 MS. HARGIS: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any monthly reports? I've been 23 handed monthly reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; 24 District Clerk; Constable, Precinct 3; Justice of the Peace, 25 Precinct 1; Kerr County Treasurer for December '09; and Kerr 1-25-10 61 1 County Payroll for December '09. Do I hear a motion that 2 these reports be approved as presented? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 6 indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or 7 discussion on the motion? 8 MS. HARGIS: Mine should -- the audit should have 9 been included. If you need it, I'll -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: This is our audit? 11 MS. HARGIS: These are two audits; they're going to 12 come in as monthly reports. You should have all gotten a 13 copy of them, and that's the way they're going to be 14 submitted now. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I got it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the box. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we're adding to the monthly 18 reports the current audit reports for the first quarter of 19 fiscal year '09-'10 from the Auditor's office. Is that 20 correct, gentlemen? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With that addition, any 23 further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, 24 signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 1-25-10 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 4 Section 5 of the agenda, reports from Commissioners in 5 connection with their liaison/committee assignments. 6 Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing I haven't already 10 announced, Judge. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, I already said mine 15 earlier. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Would you mind sitting on Rusty? 17 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, you don't. (Laughter.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from elected 20 officials or department heads? 21 MS. HYDE: Which one? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which one? 23 MS. HYDE: This one's quick. Everyone should have 24 gotten an e-mail this morning about A.X.A. coming on the 23rd 25 and 24th of February for the 2010 review. In there, it also 1-25-10 63 1 states that our return on investment for the past 12 months 2 was anywhere from 10 percent to 16 percent for our employees, 3 which is pretty darn good. We are in the process of getting 4 ready to order the Hep A and B shots, so the department heads 5 and elected officials will be getting a list so that I know 6 how many to buy. Also, the same for tetanus. The AirLife, 7 today, we will finish adding those in today. They have till 8 noon to get signed up, and then we can do laters, but we got 9 to get them in and then -- yes, sir? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I make a -- make a comment? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't sign anything. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You missed a conversation with 13 Mr. Oehler earlier. You may want to visit, because there's 14 some problems with this whole thing. 15 MS. HYDE: Oh, dear. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, not -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, because if our employees 18 are signing up and thinking they're going to get it, and 19 they're not going to get it because 911 dispatches a 20 different ambulance, because it's alternated, that's all I 21 can say. 22 MS. BAILEY: It will be on the agenda next time, 23 right? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On our next agenda. 25 MS. BAILEY: It will be on the next agenda. 1-25-10 64 1 MS. HYDE: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll talk to you about it. 3 MS. HYDE: So, are y'all telling me to not do it 4 today? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Sit on it. 6 MS. HYDE: Do not take it out of their payroll? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go right ahead. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't -- 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We've already approved the payroll 10 deduction. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 13 MS. BAILEY: But you might not want to make the 14 cutoff until after the next agenda. 15 MS. HYDE: Okey-dokey, I'm done. (Laughter.) 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just a jail status. As of 17 this morning, total population in-house was 148. 198th has 18 29 awaiting trial, 216th has 36, County Court as Law has 27. 19 And Gillespie County, we're housing 14 of theirs. And as we 20 stated last time, without any side comments, the problem is 21 females still, with 27. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the total, Rusty? I 23 didn't get that. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 148. We got 121 males, which 25 is good in that population category for that. But it's the 1-25-10 65 1 27 females still. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you happen to check if 3 Bandera has female capabilities? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bandera did not. At the time 5 I had the offer of one in La Salle County, and the second 6 offer, closest would be Guadalupe County at $50 a day per 7 inmate. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's something I don't 9 understand about all this. You need to help me understand 10 this, or someone does. We have -- this Court has -- on 11 Friday morning, there's a court out at the jail, and we have 12 hired a special judge to sit, and we have hired a special 13 prosecutor and the whole thing. The reason that we've done 14 all that is to try to get those people out of the jail, okay? 15 To reduce the numbers of prisoners. And just about -- I 16 mean, almost everything they do out there on Friday morning 17 is 216th, out of the 216th court. And that number is still 18 higher than the 198th. Why is that, Rusty? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well -- 20 MS. BAILEY: Buster, I think that might be good to 21 put on the agenda, invite them to come address that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would like to make one 23 comment. Not responding to that, because that is an agenda 24 item. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sneak around it and 1-25-10 66 1 answer it. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I won't. But I will -- I will 3 say that, if you remember, prior to starting the court out at 4 the -- out there on Fridays, and with that special prosecutor 5 and judge coming in, the jail was running an average 6 population into the 160's and 170's all the time, okay? We 7 were overpopulated. Regardless of what the female population 8 is, we're down to 148 this morning. That's a Monday morning 9 after, you know, the weekend and everything, which you always 10 have a few more in there waiting to get magistrated, get cut 11 loose. So, we have dropped our population probably by 20 12 since that -- since this Court started that, which I think is 13 good. We are just at one of those points where, when we only 14 have 32 female beds -- and as I was talking to one of the 15 chief probation officers the other day, there were -- there's 16 over 800 people in Kerr County on -- on probation, just out 17 of one court. And you get the violation of probations in 18 there that carry a no bond. I think that court, which was 19 the 216th, or -- and I think he has some of the other ones, 20 but they had actually violated 17 females this year, which -- 21 or through the last year, through 2009. So, we're just -- 22 we're at a point where I don't know how much more space we 23 can do. I can invite the Jail Commission down. We can look 24 at the structure inside our jail, see if there's any way that 25 I can revamp and get a few beds. But most of the time, if I 1-25-10 67 1 do that, it's going to be a 16-bed block, because that jail's 2 made in eight and eight, and if I drop the male population by 3 16 and increase the female population by 16, then we're going 4 to be overcrowded on males. So, we're just getting to an 5 issue. If we do have to house out of county, I'm hoping that 6 we can continue to house enough Gillespie County inmates to 7 offset the cost to where we don't have that. It's just going 8 to be more on transports and that. Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials or 10 department heads? Do we have any items to -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Executive? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Before we go into executive session? 13 Why don't we go ahead and take a 15-minute recess. We'll 14 come back, and then we'll handle our executive session item. 15 So, we'll be in recess for about 15 minutes. 16 (Recess taken from 10:28 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 19 were in recess. Before we go into executive session, there 20 was one more matter that we had from an elected official. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick, just to let 22 you know, we were approved for the grant for the five more 23 cars on top of what we're getting through the budget process. 24 Those cars in the grant process were put in as Crown Vics. 25 In talking to them, and my chief deputy dealing with them, it 1-25-10 68 1 was going to add about a $13,000 difference to upgrade those 2 to Tahoes, and between donations and my seizure fund, that 3 amount can be covered without using any of the county money. 4 And I'm just letting y'all know that the grant people said 5 there was no problem with that. So, my intention is to 6 upgrade those last five to Tahoes. I think that the return 7 later on in the county is better with the possibility, and 8 that will give us 15 Tahoes coming this year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're going to be able to get 10 something from the -- from the grant people that indicates 11 that's acceptable to them, as long as you're not looking for 12 the funds? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. HARGIS: And the Court does understand that 16 they upgraded the vehicles -- five of the vehicles in our 17 bond issue from Crown Vics to Tahoes? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did he use bond money to do 20 that? Or -- 21 MS. HARGIS: It's my understanding he's using 22 seizure funds to take those up to Tahoes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Donated funds. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Donated funds. 25 MS. HARGIS: Seizure and donated. 1-25-10 69 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about the 2 same five he's talking about? 3 MS. HARGIS: No. He's upgrading the ones that we 4 got with the grant, with the stimulus grant. Then he's also 5 upgrading the ones that we have in the bond issue itself. 6 Not all. We have ten in there, but he only upgraded five. 7 Is that right? Or do you -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All 15 vehicles coming now 9 will be Tahoes, and not -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going from 5 to 10 to 15. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's 10 in the issue that 12 was done as part of the budget, because we're not ordering 13 any next year. We got them all because of the -- the bond 14 issue and that. Everything's in there. That was the 10. We 15 had applied separately for a grant through AACOG and the 16 state for five other vehicles on top of that, and we were 17 awarded those, so we now have 15 vehicles. All those 18 vehicles will be Tahoes. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: And that'll put you into the next 20 century, right? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will put him for a while, 23 because he's gotten five more this year than he was planning 24 to get. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, to cover next year. 1-25-10 70 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing -- well, the 2 only thing is -- you have to look at is I have 20 vehicles 3 right now with over 120,000 miles on them. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, that's nothing. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. It is when you're 6 talking a pursuit package police car. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can put a couple female 8 prisoners in each one of those trucks. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Overnight. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Put them out for 11 breakfast. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that the way you transport 13 out of Kerr County? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way we always did 15 it, yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I understand. I 17 thought it was a bus ticket before. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the Julius Neunhoffer 19 solution, one-way nonrefundable bus ticket. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There were a lot of those. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You had something additional you 22 wanted to throw into the fray here? 23 MS. HYDE: I got caught up real quick during the 24 break. Commissioner Oehler is going to talk -- contact Air 25 Evac; I'm going to contact AirLife, to have them both here. 1-25-10 71 1 We're going to get the County Attorney to help us make sure 2 that they understand that this is not -- they need to be 3 here. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 MS. HYDE: And that way they can discuss, and we 6 can tell them what we expect, because we might not decide to 7 do what we've decided to do. But I'm going to go ahead and 8 pull the money; we'll have the money in case from the 9 employees, and then I can always give it back to them. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, okay. 11 MS. HARGIS: Judge, I have one. We might want to 12 tell the Court that on Wednesday at 12:00, the Judge and I 13 are going to be on television to discuss the bond issue and 14 some inter -- general interview questions that may come up, 15 at the local station. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You and who? 17 MS. HARGIS: Judge Tinley. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: K.V.H.V.? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Got a -- 20 MS. HYDE: Invitation from them. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Nielsen rating on K.V.H.V. is 28.6. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's got to go up higher. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Indications are they're going to 24 want to be talking about our debt issue and our capital 25 improvements, those sorts of things primarily, probably this 1-25-10 72 1 building that we just opened the bids on. But -- okay. 2 Anything else? I will -- I will go out of public or open 3 session at 10:53 to go into executive or closed session. 4 MS. PIEPER: Judge, this executive session, I 5 think, affects my office. Is it okay if I stay in? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I would assume so, yeah. 7 MS. HARGIS: And the H.R. Director. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: H.R. Director, okay. And we have 9 the County Attorney also. 10 (The open session was closed at 10:53 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 11 is contained in a separate document.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE TINLEY: It's 11:28. We will go into public 14 or open session now. Any member of the Court have anything 15 to offer with respect to any matters discussed in executive 16 or closed session? Anything else to come before the Court 17 today in accordance with the agenda? We'll be adjourned. 18 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:30 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-25-10 73 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 27th day of January, 8 2010. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1-25-10