1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, February 8, 2010 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 8, 2010 2 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 5 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to award bid(s) for construction of new Law 5 Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation Building and related improvements 6 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on adopting fee schedule for protective custody 7 animals -- 1.4 Presentation on technology and methodology of 8 Acoustic Bathometry used in surveying freshwater lakes such as Flat Rock Lake 21 9 1.5 Public Hearing regarding the installation of 30 mph speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop, 10 Precinct 2 42 1.3 Consider/discuss, approve consolidating polling 11 locations for Republican or Democratic run-off election into four locations 43 12 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve installing four 30 mph speed limit signs 13 on Red Bird Loop, Precinct 2 46 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 approve private road name, Sheri Lane NW, Precinct 4 47 15 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve final alternate plat for Lots 1 & 2 of 16 Stevens Ranch, Precinct 2 50 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 17 approve final alternate plat for Lot 76 of Stone Leigh Ranch, Precinct 2 51 18 1.10 Acknowledge receipt of quarterly investment report from Patterson and Associates for 19 quarter ending 12-31-09 53 1.11 Report to Commissioners Court of the status of 20 investments made under Section 887(b) of the Probate Code 54 21 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding emergency helicopter medical services 22 procedures involving AirLIFE, AirEvac, and Kerrville EMS 55 23 1.12 Update on Friday morning jail docket from Ralph Behrens 102 24 1.14 Request audit from the Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show for 2008-2009 and 25 2009-2010 for grant purposes 114 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) February 8, 2010 2 PAGE 1.15 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the 3 submission of General Victim Assistance-Direct Services Program grant proposal for 2010-2011 123 4 1.16 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the submission of grant proposal to Sterling-Turner 5 Foundation in Houston 125 1.17 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the 6 submission of grant proposal to the Hal & Charlie Peterson Foundation 127 7 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on implementation of the burn ban 136 8 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to confirm nomination of Lt. Bill Hill as Kerr 9 County AACOG representative on Criminal Justice Advisory Committee, and Lt. Jeffrey Wendling as 10 his alternate 137 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 11 reappoint Bobbie Lesser and Patsy Lackey to AACOG Criminal Justice Advisory Committee; 12 Patsy Lackey as committee member and Bobbie Lesser as her alternate 138 13 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to authorize request for bids/proposals to construct 14 new outdoor rodeo arena at Hill County Youth Exhibit Center 139 15 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with ImageTek, Inc. for 16 scanning and indexing of records in County Clerk's office in accordance with approved 17 2009-10 Archival Plan, and authorize County Judge to sign same 144 18 4.1 Pay Bills 146 19 4.2 Budget Amendments --- 4.3 Late Bills --- 20 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 156 21 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 157 22 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 160 23 --- Adjourned 164 24 25 4 1 On Monday, February 8, 2010, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Thank you for being here. Let me call to order this 9 regularly scheduled meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners 10 Court posted and scheduled for this date and time, Monday, 11 February 8th, 2010, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. 12 Commissioner Williams? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and 14 join me in the pledge of allegiance followed by a moment of 15 prayer, which will be led by the senior -- new senior pastor 16 of Zion Lutheran Church, the Reverend Michael Williams. 17 (Pledge of allegiance and prayer.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 20 any member of the audience or public that wishes to be heard 21 on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is your 22 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 23 If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would ask that 24 you fill out a participation form. There should be some 25 located at the rear of the room. That helps me to be aware 2-8-10 5 1 that there is someone that wishes to be heard on that item so 2 that I don't pass over it and -- and not call on them for 3 their thoughts and comments on the matter. If -- if you 4 should wish to be heard on an agenda item and you haven't 5 filled out a participation form, that's fine too. Just get 6 my attention in some manner, and I'll give you that 7 opportunity. But right now, if there's any member of the 8 public or the audience here today that wishes to be heard on 9 any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come forward at 10 this time and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one 11 coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner Williams, what 12 do you have for us this morning? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a word about Friday 14 night. We had a political forum over in Center Point, the 15 school district, and it was attended by the -- the opponents 16 in the County Attorney's race and J.P. race, well attended by 17 the local folks. I want to thank you, Judge, and other 18 elected officials who were unopposed for making an appearance 19 and saying hello to the folks over there. It was well 20 attended, lasted about an hour and a half, and I think the 21 County Attorney candidates were tired by the end of the 22 evening, but a good time was had by all. And the important 23 thing is that the questions that needed to be asked with 24 respect to the operation of both the County Attorney's office 25 and the J.P.'s' office were asked, and the answers were very 2-8-10 6 1 enlightening. So, we got a full agenda, and that'll be about 2 it for right now. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I have anything 5 this morning. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we spent yesterday with 8 about 15 Cajuns watching the football game, and on the back 9 of one of them's car, they had a sticker that said, "The 10 Saints will win the Superbowl when pigs fly and hell freezes 11 over." I just wanted you to know, 10 miles down the 12 interstate this morning, there were nine pigs and a sow 13 flying overhead. (Laughter.) I saw the devil sitting on the 14 bench out here with a big old buffalo robe on. So, anyway, 15 that's it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, can you top 17 that one? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No way. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't top that one. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No savvy English. 21 (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm not going to touch it. 23 I'm not going to touch it. Let's get started on our agenda. 24 The first item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and 25 take appropriate action to award the bids for the 2-8-10 7 1 construction of the new Law Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation 2 building, and related improvements. Mr. Lewis. 3 MR. LEWIS: Morning, Judge, Commissioners. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: As the project architect, -- 5 MR. LEWIS: I'm ready. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- speak to us. 7 MR. LEWIS: As you know, we received bids for this 8 project two weeks ago -- yes, two weeks ago at Commissioners 9 Court. And immediately after, the County Clerk made copies 10 of all those and then shared those with us. We had very good 11 interest; we received 13 bids. Had -- we had, as you know, 12 even greater interest, interest from as many as 20-some-odd 13 contractors, but 13 bids were received. What we did with 14 those copies of the bids was prepare a spreadsheet, which you 15 have in front of you. That's -- that spreadsheet has also 16 been shared with all of the 13 contractors that were on here. 17 Of these 13, three of them were nonresponsive on several 18 items, and so we didn't immediately discount those, but I 19 note that. One of them did not break out the bids and fill 20 out the bid form in its entirety, and one of them did not 21 attend the prebid conference, so those were the only 22 irregularities. 23 As you know, the bid was structured as a site 24 package which had three parts to it, and then a building and 25 a finish-out package, so there were 1A, B, C, 2 and 3. And 2-8-10 8 1 the spreadsheet in front of you represents all the results of 2 that, as well as we had three alternates. One had to do with 3 paving, one had to do with floor finishes, and one had to do 4 with masonry. After much consideration -- at the bid 5 opening, Commissioners Court read the total bid package at 6 that time, and it appears that Kendnel Kasper Construction 7 was the low bidder, with a bid of 1,044,046 for all of the 8 items, 1A, B, C, 2, and 3, exclusive of the alternates. We 9 had meetings -- and let me just say, the spread there, the 10 high bid for the total was a million, six, so there was a 11 pretty good spread there. And it really -- but it generally 12 exceeded the County's expectations in terms of the numbers 13 being very favorable on the County's behalf. 14 We spent the next -- the better part of the last 15 two weeks visiting with the Judge and members of Road and 16 Bridge and county staff to talk about the County's ability 17 and interest in doing the items, the site piece of that, 18 Items 1A, B, and C, which included utilities, paving, 19 grading, and drainage, and came to the conclusion about the 20 middle of last week that the County would do those. So -- 21 and we really basically took those off the table for the -- 22 for the general contract, split the package into two general 23 contracts. The County will now act as general contractor for 24 all of the site work and work to cooperate -- collaborate 25 with the successful general contractor, the low bidder who 2-8-10 9 1 will do the building and the finish-out, in that we have some 2 overlap in terms of time and maybe some economies. So, at -- 3 what that left was the -- if you look, there's a line item 4 about the middle of your spreadsheet, that total for bid 5 package 2 and 3 only, and there again, you will see that 6 Kendnel Kasper Construction is the apparent low bidder in 7 that category with a bid of 780,822. The next -- next higher 8 was in that line item was Merrell General at 824; it's about 9 a 5 percent spread. 10 And -- and so again had a discussion with county 11 staff and the Judge, and also spoke with Kendnel Kasper to 12 confirm that they were confident in these numbers. And so, 13 after some deliberation at the end of last week, it was our 14 recommendation to recommend the Court to select Kendnel 15 Kasper Construction as the general contractor. And after 16 some discussion with respect to the alternates, Alternate 1 17 was declined, the paving alternate. Alternate 2 was taken 18 for vinyl flooring in lieu of carpet where scheduled on the 19 drawings. And Alternate Number 3 was the addition of some 20 mason -- stonework around the base of the building and at the 21 entrance. And so at this time, it is my recommendation that 22 the Court, and for your consideration, to accept the low 23 bidder at $780,822, and begin negotiations to enter into a 24 contract for construction. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions from any member of the 2-8-10 10 1 Court with respect to the recommendation from the project 2 architect? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Go ahead. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you're talking about 5 the -- I'm going to call it rock veneer -- 6 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- on the building, are we 8 talking about, like, to the bottom of the windows? 9 MR. LEWIS: About that, on a couple sides, and then 10 we're actually -- the drawings indicated some to the 11 underside of the canopies at several of the entries. So, 12 it's not -- it's not for the entire face of the building. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But in your mind, you can 14 see it kind of matching up a little bit -- 15 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- with the older building 17 to the left? 18 MR. LEWIS: We would look at the stone, and -- and 19 there's some detail on that. It has a -- a top course on it 20 that's a cut stone. I don't know that we would necessarily 21 do that, but we can certainly match the profile of that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I remember when we -- 23 when they built the jail, that particular stone has some red 24 sand in it, and when they first put it up, it was bleeding 25 out a little bit. And, oh my god, some of the community 2-8-10 11 1 thought our building was falling down; there was lawsuits 2 flying all over the place because the rock was falling apart. 3 MR. LEWIS: We could do that again if you'd like. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. (Laughter.) 5 That's not in here, is it? 6 MR. LEWIS: No, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anyway -- so, no. What 8 about -- so, are you talking about using the same rock? 9 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Thank you, Peter. 11 MR. LEWIS: Or something close to it. You're 12 welcome, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over the -- in your 14 Part 1, -- 15 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- exactly what A, B, and C -- 17 break those parts out a little bit for me? 18 MR. LEWIS: A was site utilities. B -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's getting -- as I 20 understand, that's getting the utilities -- 21 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- basic utilities to the site, 23 but no -- 24 MR. LEWIS: Not building utilities. Utilities to 25 the building. B was -- 2-8-10 12 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Water and wastewater only? 2 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir, water and wastewater, 3 electric with part of the tenant finish or the interior 4 finish. Two was paving, and 3 was grading and drainage. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- 6 MR. LEWIS: And there's, you know, the construction 7 of the detention ponds. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's responsible for the pad 9 -- the pad compaction? 10 MR. LEWIS: The building pad will be the County's. 11 It falls under the County's contract. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there some clear, I guess, 13 line -- 14 MR. LEWIS: Accountability? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- line between -- I want to 16 make sure that if there's a problem with the foundation, that 17 Mr. Kasper doesn't say it's the County's fault. 18 MR. LEWIS: We will -- we considered that question 19 and, you know, we considered while we were putting the bid 20 package together and as we assessed the bids, there will be a 21 testing laboratory. That will be the testing laboratory 22 throughout the project, and so they will be passing muster on 23 all of the materials, compaction strengths, densities, 24 plasticity, all that kind of -- moisture content for base, 25 for sub-base, and any other testing we have, concrete 2-8-10 13 1 testing. And so the single source for accountability, for 2 assuring that the materials in place are as spec, will be 3 that testing lab, and it doesn't matter who does the 4 construction. So, it -- you know, the framing carpenter 5 could do it, and if it tested out, it would be fine. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And the other part of 7 that, are we going to need any additional supervision 8 administration other than Mr. Odom on this work? Because -- 9 and I bring that up because Mr. Odom's not an engineer. 10 MR. LEWIS: John Hewitt is responsible, whether 11 y'all are the contractor or whether Mr. Kasper's the 12 contractor, and will be looking -- both Peter Lewis, 13 architect, and my consultant, John Hewitt Civil Engineering, 14 one of those will be acting as your agent out there, and so 15 we will be the independent entity that will -- we don't 16 oversee the work, but we observe it and -- and observe it for 17 compliance with the drawings and the specs. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, I mean, -- 19 MR. LEWIS: So we will be that -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there is a check? 21 MR. LEWIS: It is interesting, because we will have 22 the County as a client and the County as a contractor. 23 And -- but I think that we will be able to do all that very 24 well, and it'll -- you'll have a good product at the end. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But from a -- I just want to 2-8-10 14 1 make sure from an engineering standpoint that there's a check 2 against the Road and Bridge. 3 MR. LEWIS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because since Mr. Odom is not 5 a -- 6 MR. LEWIS: Our engineer will be doing that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peter, do I understand 9 correctly, there is -- the site work involves some relocation 10 of the detention pond currently there? 11 MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir, and enlargement, improvement 12 of it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And that there will 14 be -- following up on Commissioner Letz' question, there will 15 be a significant amount of soil stabilization taking place 16 underneath the pad? 17 MR. LEWIS: There will be, yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 MR. LEWIS: As per spec from Rock Engineering, who 20 is our geo-tech, and they will also be doing -- the 21 laboratory that did the predesign engineering and testing 22 will also be the laboratory that will be doing the 23 construction testing, which we think is good for continuity 24 and accountability. And I will add one more thing. We did 25 -- after we came for a preliminary decision with the Judge, 2-8-10 15 1 made few phone calls and got a very good report card on 2 Kendnel Kasper for similar projects. One of them was -- 3 actually, two of them were churches, and I do a lot of church 4 work, and if we can please a church, I think we can please 5 the county. (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 7 PASTOR WILLIAMS: I know exactly what you're 8 talking about. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: He's probably not going to jump into 10 that one. 11 MR. LEWIS: Well, he's -- I wanted him to weigh in 12 the on the hell freezing over there. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question really for Mr. Odom. 14 Len, how long do you anticipate -- well, let me rephrase. 15 Not how long. How is this going to impact your other 16 responsibilities and work, taking this project on? 17 MR. ODOM: Well, you'll have two crews that will be 18 affected. That's Doug and Donny's crews. That's Donny's 19 area, so we're going to -- you know, the impact will be at 20 least 60 days. But tell me what the good Lord's going to do 21 with this weather, and -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 MR. ODOM: I don't know. I look for February to be 24 a wet month. And it could go to April; this could be 25 Sheppard Rees' second, so who knows? 2-8-10 16 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But from the standpoint of your 2 workload, this is hitting at a time -- it's before the 3 sealcoat season starts, so we're really missing most of it. 4 MR. ODOM: We head into that, and yes, it will be 5 delayed a little bit with those two functions. However, 6 we're pretty well -- the only thing I need is -- 7 Hasenwinkel's one, but we feel like this will break maybe 8 April, and then we're off and -- and can pick up. We may be 9 a little bit delayed on our program for those two, but it's 10 not -- we feel like we can still get it in. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Are there any other 12 projects that are going to be delayed as a result of this? 13 Or is this -- I mean, obviously, your people will be doing 14 something for this period, or those two crews will be, so 15 what's not going to get done? 16 MR. ODOM: As far as preventive maintenance? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or what's going to be pushed 18 off a little bit on your schedule? 19 MR. ODOM: Well, Donny's and Doug's are going to be 20 pushed off a little bit, and -- and then we'll have to pick 21 up from there. If we finish the others, I'm going to fold 22 the other crews back in there to either help here if we're 23 behind, or pick up in their areas and go forward. Sealcoat 24 will go forward. If anything, it would be the city, if I had 25 to do the city. They're the last on my list. 2-8-10 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. One more 2 question. Do we have all the equipment in-house that you'll 3 need for that? 4 MR. ODOM: No, sir. I'm probably going to rent a 5 track loader. We feel like that would give us good density 6 and movement in that channel, in that detention pond as we 7 work it. But there is some material that has to be bought, 8 the geo-tech material for the foundation, and so there will 9 be some costs associated there. But the only equipment is 10 that right there. The rest of it's in-house. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. One more. Do you -- 12 have you estimated the cost from your department? 13 MR. ODOM: Well, it depends. I can't remember 14 exactly what they told me and how much is on a roll, but that 15 geo, maybe $4,000 or $5,000 worth of pad material. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 MR. ODOM: For the geo grid. And then it depends 18 on the material. We have that in place with what we're using 19 over there off Spur 100. I have to have that tested, but we 20 feel like that should pass Type C material. If that's the 21 case, that's a savings of $30,000, $40,000. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 23 MR. ODOM: So, it's there. It's just going to be 24 an in-house type deal. Our cost to the county is going to be 25 whether we pay them to do that or someone else. 2-8-10 18 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The impact just will be 2 delaying a few projects, and really no -- not a sizable 3 amount of increase. 4 MR. ODOM: All that preventive maintenance, but we 5 feel like there's enough time there. If we get through by 6 April, May, we'll go on. We should be through. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 MR. ODOM: Yeah, we don't know what we're going to 9 hit out there. That's the question. What's off in that 10 detention pond? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mud. All right, thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we accept the bid and 14 award the bid to Kendnel Kasper Construction Company in the 15 amount of $780,822 for Bid Packages 2 and 3, as submitted. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. Then I have one more 17 question. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Do 19 you wish to say anything in the motion about Alternatives 2 20 and 3, as recommended by the project architect? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, and include 22 Alternatives 2 and 3 as recommended, and authorize County 23 Judge to enter into a contract for the construction of this 24 building. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that acceptable with your second? 2-8-10 19 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's acceptable. I think, 2 also, maybe clarify that the County's doing the Bid Package 3 A, B, and C internally. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 1A, B, C. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bid Package 1A, B, and C 6 are excluded from the bid, because the County is going to 7 perform that work. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody clear on that? 11 Question or discussion on the motion? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more question. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or maybe one more. The -- the 15 low bid of 780,000 is a really good bid from the County's 16 standpoint, and there's -- I know there's a bond requirement. 17 What's the bond? Is the bond -- how does the bond work? Say 18 there's a problem. Not that I think Mr. Kasper is going to 19 have a problem, but say -- you know, are we bonding that 20 amount? Or is it the building, or is it -- what is covered 21 by the bond? 22 MR. LEWIS: It covers the completion of your 23 building. And if -- if -- it won't be necessary, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 MR. LEWIS: -- what would happen in that case is 2-8-10 20 1 the bonding company -- well, the general contractor would 2 attempt to work through the issues with the owner. Failing 3 that, the bonding company would step in and take over the 4 job, and they might have the general contractor finish the 5 job. They might hire someone else to do it. It would be up 6 to them to do it. But it basically is insurance for you, the 7 owner. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the completion of the 9 building, not the dollar amount of the bid? 10 MR. LEWIS: Yes, that's correct. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: As per the plans and specs. The 13 bonding company will be obligated to deliver that. 14 MR. LEWIS: If the economy changes and costs go up 15 or down, that -- that affects the completion, but it doesn't 16 affect your receipt of a finished building. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, comments on the 19 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 20 right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you, 25 Mr. Lewis. We appreciate the interest in the project by 2-8-10 21 1 everyone that participated and bid on it, and your efforts in 2 seeking the work. Anything further? Okay. 3 MR. LEWIS: All right, sir. I will -- Judge, I 4 will be in touch with you, and Mr. Kasper will as they 5 prepare the contract. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 MR. LEWIS: Thank y'all. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 2, consider, discuss, take 9 appropriate action on adopting fee schedule for protective 10 custody animals. Ms. Whitt has asked that this matter be 11 deferred and not considered at this time. In the event she 12 wants the Court to consider it, she'll bring it back. Let's 13 go to Item 4, a 9:15 item, which it is a little past that 14 time now. Presentation on the technology and methodology of 15 acoustic bathometry used in surveying freshwater lakes such 16 as Flat Rock Lake. Commissioner Williams? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. We've 18 had a discussion about the bathometric acoustic technology to 19 use to be able to survey Flat Rock Lake and determine what 20 the profile is or identify the profile of the lake bottom, as 21 well as to get some feel for how much silt is in there. And 22 I -- as a result of our last meeting in which we discussed 23 this, I invited the good folks from the J3S Company in 24 Georgetown, Texas, who use this technology extensively for 25 doing this same type of work on other freshwater lakes, not 2-8-10 22 1 the least of which are some of the L.C.R.A. lakes, to come 2 and tell us a little bit about it. So, it's my pleasure to 3 introduce to you this morning Mr. Tim Raymond, who's the 4 Chief Operating Officer for J3S Company -- Corporation, and 5 he's going to tell us everything we wanted to know, but were 6 afraid to ask, about acoustic bathometry. 7 MR. RAYMOND: Good morning. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 9 MR. RAYMOND: Good morning. I have some handouts 10 for the commission, if you'd circulate those. As 11 Mr. Williams was so kind, my name is Timothy Raymond. I'm 12 the Chief Operating Officer and Director of Engineering for 13 J3S Incorporated. What you'll see up here is Branch Water 14 Services' logo, and before we get too far, I want to identify 15 that as the "doing business as" of J3S Incorporated, so don't 16 be confused by that. We're all the same company. Branch 17 Water is a small woman-owned business. It was established in 18 2000, primarily working to serve the United States Navy on a 19 variety of contracts. Part of our work with the navy is 20 translated into a diversification into bathometric survey. 21 Basically, what we're doing here is taking sonar technologies 22 and applying them to image what's underneath the water in a 23 lake. We're going to talk a little bit about the 24 technologies. How -- what exactly is it that we're using? 25 How does this fit together? What kind of products would you 2-8-10 23 1 see? And we'll talk briefly about some of the considerations 2 that you might have for a lake survey. 3 This is a big picture kind of look at all the 4 possibilities here, but only the items in red are the ones 5 that we'll focus on today. So, we'll talk a little bit about 6 before and after volumetric surveys, which is the kind of 7 survey that is appropriate, I think, for Flat Rock. We'll 8 talk a little bit about the specific sonars, the site scan, 9 the multi-beam and sub-bottom sonar, and talk a little bit 10 about how all this comes about. What does the vehicle look 11 like? How's the planning done? What are the data products? 12 This is a picture from -- from Lake Worth in Fort Worth -- 13 well, actually in Lake Worth, but I think of it as Fort 14 Worth. And what you see there is an area of about 30 or 15 40 acres of lake, and you're looking at the bottom of the 16 lake. The pink -- blue hump there is a hump of hard material 17 that's sticking up from the bottom of the lake. 18 Then you can see that there are two layers there, 19 and this is a little bit difficult to see, but there's a 20 translucent flat green layer, and then underneath that is 21 kind of a shadowy cratered green and yellow area. And what 22 you're seeing there is the apparent bottom of the lake. That 23 is the surface of the silt, and then the native bottom, which 24 is hardened material that's underlying the silt. This is a 25 product of two of the sonars, the multi-beam sonar and the 2-8-10 24 1 sub-bottom sonar. So, after completing the survey, we have 2 data that produces visualizations like this. As a -- in the 3 case of -- in the case of Lake Worth, the desire there was to 4 dredge the lake to lower the lake level and improve its use 5 for recreation. So, there's a lot of interest in providing 6 the dredgers with an accurate look at where the silt lies, 7 what's underneath there, how much native or hard bottom 8 material and so on. 9 This is a picture from the side scan sonar in Lake 10 Marble Falls. As you may know, Marble Falls holds a boat 11 race, very high-speed boats. Occasionally there's problems 12 with those. And here you see an image that we picked up on 13 the bottom of Lake Marble Falls, which apparently is a boat 14 motor. And we didn't go after this. I'm not sure it's worth 15 anything, but it made an interesting target. And this is the 16 kind of thing that you can see with the side scan sonar. 17 Primarily, what we're using the side scan here is to look for 18 objects that are impediments to dredging. That is, if the 19 dredger comes along and he sucks up a boat motor or a dead 20 car or refrigerator, this causes a lot of irritation. And 21 they like to know where these objects are and what they are. 22 This is a picture close to the dam, close to 23 Starkey Dam at Lake Marble Falls. This is another good 24 illustration of what the multi-beam sonar can do. What 25 you're looking at here is, again, an area of about 30 or 2-8-10 25 1 40 acres directly in front of the dam. The dam is to your 2 right running up and down the screen, and there's a cliff 3 face kind of on the back edge there. The sonars don't image 4 those surfaces. In this -- in this case, we didn't take data 5 on the face of the dam, but it does image right up to the 6 bottom of the dam. You can see the cutout there, the lighter 7 blue area with the big yellow pocket there. That cutout is 8 left over from the construction of Starkey Dam, and if you 9 look at some of the historical graphs, you can see where a 10 road bed's been cut out to construct the dam. 11 Right up against the face of the dam, which is not 12 easy to see, there's several interesting structures there. 13 But one of the things that caught the attention of L.C.R.A. 14 is, in that yellow pocket, there appears to be a cave opening 15 up, which could allow water to seep underneath the dam. 16 That's a very soft area. It's a deep pool; it's got a lot of 17 sediment in it, and it's something that they were very 18 interested in seeing. This is a picture of raw data from the 19 sub-bottom sonar. This is the sonar that gives us the 20 capability to look down underneath the sediment, or mud, and 21 see the native bottom. What you see here is the sub-bottom 22 tracking along the track of the sonar. So, the sub-bottom 23 you can think of as a pencil beam; people look can straight 24 down underneath the vehicle. As you drive along, it creates 25 a plot of what's directly underneath it. That is, it's 2-8-10 26 1 looking down through the ground directly underneath it, down 2 through the water, hitting the ground, and then down 3 underneath the ground. 4 What the sub-bottom is looking for is big changes 5 in density, so if there's material that's more dense than 6 water, it picks up a boundary. If there's material that's 7 more dense than what it first encounters, it picks up another 8 boundary. So, as the density suddenly changes, increasing, 9 the sub-bottom is picking up boundary after boundary after 10 boundary. And you can see on the right there, there's a pool 11 of silt. You can see the top of the silt. You can see where 12 the native bottom is underneath. There's -- there's some 13 more features to this image that I'd be happy to discuss, but 14 in the interest of time, I'll kind of let it slide. But 15 there's a lot of things that the sub-bottom is showing you in 16 that image. This is a picture of the vehicle underway in 17 lake -- in Lake Worth. It's in a shallow area where there's 18 a large number of stumps. The vehicle's about 9 feet long; 19 it weighs about 600 pounds. It's autonomous; that is, it's 20 given a mission and it drives itself around. This provides 21 the capability to obtain automatically a very high-fidelity 22 survey. That is, we're using differential GPS. We're 23 precisely positioning the vehicle. And it offers a method to 24 safely and efficiently do a repeatable survey of the 25 underwater bathometry. 2-8-10 27 1 All right. I want to talk a little bit more about 2 this platform, and I think I've probably said the words that 3 you see in red there already; that is, that it tracks a 4 track. It also offers you a way -- a means to do a survey 5 without holes or overlaps, so it's very efficient, and it -- 6 it allows the capability to repeat. So, if you hired a 7 dredger and they came in and they removed a certain volume, 8 it would be very easy to repeat a survey and evaluate how the 9 bathometry had changed as a result of the dredging. One of 10 the things that I didn't mention here is that it's -- it's a 11 very stable platform. We're measuring not just the position, 12 but also the pitch, roll, and yaw of the vehicles, and we're 13 able to correct the pointing direction of the sonar, and so 14 we're able to register sonar data to a state plane grid 15 within a couple of inches, basically, because we're also 16 capturing that pitch and roll. 17 This is a picture from Lake Worth of a typical 18 survey mission. Each one of those stripes in colors is about 19 8 acres, and this mission is running 100 percent coverage of 20 the bottom. The water's fairly shallow, about 8 feet, so it 21 requires tracks that are fairly close together. And -- and 22 these missions are loaded into the vehicle. You tell the 23 vehicle go; it runs around the track and collects the data. 24 When you're done, you send it back home again. This is a 25 picture from the survey that you saw before in front of 2-8-10 28 1 Starkey Dam, so this is a little bit different. It's 50 feet 2 deep, and you can see the tracks are widely separated. The 3 deeper the water, the fewer tracks that are required for a 4 100 percent survey. So, depending on the average depth of 5 the water, the survey time goes up or down, depending on how 6 -- what percentage of coverage is desired for the survey. 7 That's an important point to consider. In this survey, it 8 takes quite a lot of time to achieve 100 percent coverage, 9 because the water is about 8 feet deep. In this survey, it 10 takes a relatively small amount of time to achieve the same 11 amount of coverage. 12 I have a couple of movies here, just to give you an 13 idea of what it looks like. So, this is underway at Lake 14 Worth early in the spring of last year, fairly heavy day. 15 But the vehicle's running at about -- I don't know, about 5 16 or 10 miles per hour or so, and -- and it does not have any 17 difficulty with this kind of thing. We do very well in all 18 kinds of weather, I think much to the disappointment of the 19 operators. They're forced to go out no matter what. This -- 20 this one here is in front of Starkey Dam. And the video 21 quality here, I have to apologize, it's not the greatest, but 22 you can see the vehicle making -- if the camera stays fixed, 23 you can see the vehicle making a precise turn. So, if you go 24 back and look at that track, what you see in that -- in the 25 slide previous, that shows the widely-spaced track for 2-8-10 29 1 Starkey Dam. You see a series of precise turns with sharp 2 corners. That's the actual track of the vehicle. It's 3 actually driving itself according to the mission plan around 4 those protrusions in the dam, so it goes around one of the 5 intakes, then it goes around the hydroelectric plant, and it 6 also goes around the small island of rocks that's sticking up 7 out of the lake. 8 All right. What do we do with the data? Well, you 9 saw the raw sub-bottom data, and you've seen the image there, 10 so -- so, primarily, when we're processing data, we're 11 combining the data sets to produce compatible information. 12 That is, we're looking to produce things that work well with 13 GIS products or other traditional survey methodologies. Many 14 of the surveys we've done match up with lidar data or other 15 data that provides a contiguous contour map from the 16 shoreline right down underneath the lake. There are a 17 variety of products, depending on what's appropriate for 18 the -- the survey, but primarily we've been doing grid fixed 19 data points, usually at about 2-foot spacing, and in state 20 plane survey. Some considerations. Now, there are a lot of 21 things here to look for. As I mentioned, sometimes the 22 dredgers are interested in what's underneath, what kind of 23 impediments might exist. But one of the things I think that 24 would be appropriate for Flat Rock is to consider what the 25 coverage might be. Is 100 percent coverage appropriate? Is 2-8-10 30 1 a lower percentage equally as valuable? Is there some 2 combination that might be appropriate for the lake? 3 This is a picture, again from Lake Worth, this time 4 down close to the dam, and I want to use this as an 5 illustration. Fairly big area. You see a white dot there, 6 kind of in -- in the right-hand side of the bounded region. 7 That white outline there is our drawing overlaid on top of 8 the map that shows the region survey. The white dot in there 9 is actually a water intake, a city water intake in the lake. 10 You can see the green stripe there on the right. This is the 11 multi-beam data that's showing the apparent bottom, so you 12 seek the intake channel leading up to the intake towers, and 13 you can also see the contours and the color associated with 14 the -- the depth of the apparent bottom. Now, if you look at 15 the silt, it looks very similar. In fact, if you flip back 16 and forth between those two, it's hard to tell the 17 difference. This is an actual mixture. This is the 18 difference that is there, is the silt depth. 19 So, taking the multi-beam that gives the apparent 20 surface, and the sub-bottom that gives the native bottom, 21 defining those two, now you have a plot of how thick the silt 22 is on the bottom. You can see that there are little pockets 23 there, here and there. There's a creek outlet actually in 24 the -- sort of in the center, left bottom part, where the -- 25 it goes from green to blue to magenta. But one of the things 2-8-10 31 1 I point out here is that -- that this 100 percent survey 2 provided high fidelity data that you can -- you can see lots 3 of little contour lines. Those are 6- inch contours, and 4 there's lots of detail, but it's unlikely that a dredger 5 would find any of that interesting, in my opinion. The -- 6 the detail there is -- is located and accurate enough. It 7 sort of would overwhelm whatever you would want to do in 8 terms of dredging, and there really isn't much silt there to 9 look at anyway. So, it's basically all native bottom. And a 10 lower resolution survey might have done just as well for this 11 -- for the case. This is a picture, I guess, of the -- the 12 area to be surveyed. So -- so there may be something -- 13 there may be -- it may be worth considering or looking into 14 further. What would be appropriate for Flat Rock? Is there 15 someplace above the dam, or a distance above the dam that 100 16 percent would be effective? And then, from there on, perhaps 17 a lower density. That's all I've got for this morning. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned that -- that for 19 the purposes of a dredger, someone interested in silt 20 removal, that sometimes too much resolution -- 100 percent, 21 for example -- is not good for that purpose. Overkill, as it 22 were. 23 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of the -- the possible 25 objectives that we're trying to accomplish, which is silt 2-8-10 32 1 removal, that's what we're ultimately looking at to make a 2 decision on, do you have any thoughts about what -- what 3 degree of coverage would be appropriate in order to 4 accomplish that? I notice in some of your material, you 5 mention 15 percent. 6 MR. RAYMOND: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Which, of course, is a much lower 8 resolution. Would that be adequate, in your opinion, for 9 Flat Rock in order for an informed judgment to be made on 10 whether or not it's appropriate to go forward on silt 11 removal, either on the basis of an excavation or a dredging, 12 either one? 13 MR. RAYMOND: Well, from a purely technical 14 perspective, the -- my experience has been that silt 15 typically pools in the deepest part of the -- the 16 containment. So, if -- if it's desired that silt be 17 identified and found, it's most likely to be found in the 18 area -- the deepest area immediately in front of the dam, and 19 I'd recommend that that area be given 100 percent. 20 Fifteen percent yields about the same data density, or about 21 the same accuracy data as you would get from a lidar survey, 22 so it's still very high-fidelity data. And so at some point 23 upstream of the dam, the -- I would recommend that the -- the 24 coverage be reduced, and that's where there's not likely to 25 be silt found, where you still need some decent fidelity and 2-8-10 33 1 imaging of the bottom of the lake. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You mention that -- that the depth 3 -- the greater the depth, the -- the fewer passes that you 4 have to make. I assume it's because of the sonar beam 5 expanding as it goes to greater depths? 6 MR. RAYMOND: That's exactly right. The multi-beam 7 sonar is -- is sort of like a fan beam or a broom sweep. The 8 deeper the water, the wider it gets as it goes down. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With respect to -- I noticed 10 in your material, there was mention made of -- of dealing 11 with geo -- bathometric survey, where the water depth is 12 greater than 3 feet, but provide estimates of the water depth 13 to the shoreline. My understanding of some of those depths 14 in areas adjacent to the shore is that some of them are 15 fairly shallow. 16 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: You may have some contour 18 information to indicate preliminarily what that is; I don't 19 know. But will that give us adequate information in those 20 shallow areas of less than 3 feet? 21 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir, it will. The -- the 22 vehicle is only designed really to survey to a certain depth. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MR. RAYMOND: Shallower than that, it -- it is not 25 effective to run the vehicle. And so, typically, what we've 2-8-10 34 1 been doing is conducting shoreline surveys with -- with an 2 operator, a person walking along the shoreline making 3 measurements, sometimes into 2 or 3 feet of water, making 4 specific measurement. It's been our experience that that's 5 more than adequate for characterizing the shallow area. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. When you're talking about 7 the -- the topographical contours in 1-foot increments, then 8 there's a notation, precision greater than or equal to 9 one-tenth of a foot accuracy, half a foot or better. Put 10 those two -- put those two measurements in perspective for 11 me, please. 12 MR. RAYMOND: The -- fundamentally, what we're 13 providing is grid data, and so the -- those grid data are 14 translated into contours. And, typically, a -- a grid 15 specification that we receive is something like we desire 16 grid data with accuracy sufficient for 6-inch contours or 17 1-foot contours. And so what you're seeing there is -- is 18 a -- perhaps an unfortunately complicated reply that 19 expresses the idea that the grid data is accurate enough for 20 1-foot contours; that is, that what we're proposing here is a 21 1-foot contour with sufficient accuracy. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I have a question. 23 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One of our -- one of the 25 things that we need to know that nobody does know, if we -- 2-8-10 35 1 there was somebody at one time that was alive that probably 2 did, but they're not with us any more. We have -- we have a 3 situation to where we have a person who draws water from the 4 lake, and they have a pipe going down for their intake. The 5 dam is plugged by an old butane tank. It's just a -- like a 6 ball in a hole. 7 MR. RAYMOND: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Will this survey be able to 9 pinpoint the depth of that ball and the depth of that intake 10 for that water? So we know if the -- if the drain is higher 11 or lower than the intake for that water? 12 MR. RAYMOND: Well, I imagine -- I haven't imaged a 13 butane tank specifically, but I imagine -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just a metal ball, is 15 all it is. 16 MR. RAYMOND: Then it should show up very well. 17 The density of metal is very high. The sound speed changes 18 drastically. Typically, the sub-bottom is used for doing 19 things like imaging underwater pipes, or even buried pipes 20 underneath the lake bed. This is the kind of thing that 21 sonar is made to do, so I would expect that you would be able 22 to see that very clearly. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the intake, I understand, 24 is a concrete, basically, shaft with an "L" on it to 25 basically let the water go into the pump, pull it out of the 2-8-10 36 1 lake. 2 MR. RAYMOND: Yeah. I -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's -- that is 4 probably -- for my part of it, that's the most important 5 thing we need to know. Because if we do drain this lake to 6 clean it, we're going to have to make sure that there's still 7 flow over to that intake so that we don't interrupt their 8 water. 9 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. I understand, yes. I 10 believe that will be -- we'd be successful. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are more than one -- 12 as Bruce knows, there are more than one -- there's more than 13 one property owner that has diversion rights out of the river 14 in the vicinity of Flat Rock Lake, and so we're cognizant of 15 that. We have to protect those rights. I have a question 16 that I think I probably know the answer, but I want to hear 17 it anyhow. As this -- as your technology surveys the bottom 18 and the silt density and et cetera, it appears to me that you 19 also identify stumps and fallen trees and so forth; is that 20 correct? 21 MR. RAYMOND: That's right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a goodly number of 23 those in Flat Rock Lake that need to be removed, as well as a 24 huge pipe that's out there that everybody can see. So, that 25 is part of it, right? We'd also be able to identify 2-8-10 37 1 reasonably well the locations of stumps and fallen trees, et 2 cetera, et cetera, et cetera? 3 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. Typically, what we've been 4 doing is planning an annotated map that identifies man-made 5 objects, as well as impediments to dredging. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Old cars and refrigerators 8 and washing machines and all those things. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who knows what else. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Tires. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Batteries, whatever. 12 Tim, I thank you for coming. Anybody -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, just a question. I mean, 14 in your literature you sent, I think Flat Rock has 120 acres, 15 about. What percent of that does the proposal cover doing 16 the survey over? 17 MR. RAYMOND: Well, I think at this point, we're 18 proposing something like 80 percent. It's -- it's -- there 19 are still some issues to be resolved, but we believe at the 20 upper end of the lake is probably too shallow to really 21 support a survey, and so we need to do some more homework, I 22 think, on that issue. But at this point, we're sort of 23 looking at -- at coming south a little bit. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. RAYMOND: Down the lake. 2-8-10 38 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know you mentioned that 2 there's one big island, several smaller islands. How do you 3 -- I mean, you're comfortable -- obviously, it wasn't very 4 shallow right there; it's above water level in places, but 5 that the survey will work properly with those real, real 6 shallow areas? 7 MR. RAYMOND: Absolutely, yes, sir. We plan on -- 8 on performing the shoreline survey first to characterize 9 where those shallow areas are, to delineate them clearly, and 10 then we'll fill in with the -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That shoreline survey will 12 include going out on the island? 13 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, that's right. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would think Third Creek Dam 15 would be fairly adequate, as far as area that needs to be 16 checked, because that's the area that's going to have the 17 most silt in it, I believe. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or maybe from our boat ramp 19 at Flat Rock, maybe from that area. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, no further up than the 21 boat ramp. That's almost to the end. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, exactly. Tim, thank 23 you very much for coming and making your presentation. The 24 Court will probably take up this topic at another meeting -- 25 later meeting in February so we can figure out how to go 2-8-10 39 1 forward. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got one more matter I'd like to 3 interject, if you don't mind, Commissioner. You'd indicated 4 that you were going to do some more analysis of the area, 5 particularly on the upstream side of the lake, to try and 6 reach some conclusion of what's appropriate to include within 7 the survey. And then you've heard some comments here about 8 the need to know some things that are down close to the dam, 9 at the dam or near the dam, the -- the plug, the intake 10 pipes, and so forth. After you have had the opportunity to 11 study those things, and knowing what the interest of the 12 Court is on achieving, would it be possible for you to put 13 together a specific proposal as to -- as to that survey? 14 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. RAYMOND: That's our intent. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other thought, and 19 hopefully for Commissioner Williams. I mean, it doesn't make 20 sense -- I agree, there's no reason for us to really go much 21 past our boat ramp at Flat Rock, but if you go a little 22 further upstream, you are at the city's park, and they have a 23 lot of jumping, and they have -- they're doing lots of things 24 right there, a lot of people in that water. If the City 25 wanted to pay for that additional cost to get the survey done 2-8-10 40 1 right in front of the park, that might be something 2 interesting. I mean, while you're here, it wouldn't cost -- 3 if they're willing to pay for it, add that onto it so they 4 can get that data. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can certainly make them 6 aware. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ask the City if they're 8 interested at all in participating to find out what's in the 9 water right in front of the park. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can make them aware, 11 give them the opportunity if they want to participate. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Raymond, one reason I 13 would want your information would be to know, of course, how 14 much silt there is, and then translate that into, bottom 15 line, how much is it going to cost me to remove "X" amount of 16 silt out of the lake? And my question is, once we locate 17 this propane tank, or butane -- 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Butane. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- butane tank and remove 20 it, and all the water rushes out, how much -- normally, how 21 much does silt -- how much of that silt that you have 22 identified goes out too? 23 MR. RAYMOND: Well, typically -- typically, silt is 24 -- the transportation of silt is actually something that 25 people spend their careers on, so I can't hope to give you 2-8-10 41 1 more than the nickel tour at this point. But -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we pay people. We pay 3 people for that, don't we? 4 MR. RAYMOND: But it depends on what kind of 5 material it is. Is it muddy? Is it loose gravel? Is it 6 fine? Is it fine sand? And so on. Those are all questions 7 that you might could answer with a core sample pretty 8 quickly. Typically, higher silt sands, mud, those kind of 9 things don't move. They're churned up by surf at the 10 shoreline. They're transported in heavy rainstorms. They 11 don't move once they're deposited. You have to suck them 12 out. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My experience is the same. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of the problem. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's true. There will be a 17 little muddy water when it starts draining, but after that, 18 it will be clear. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Little turbulence there. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just whatever's close by, 21 that's all that goes out. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything more? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. 25 MR. RAYMOND: Thank you. Appreciate the 2-8-10 42 1 opportunity. Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to our 9:30 item at this 3 time. I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I 4 will open a public hearing regarding the installation of 30 5 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop located in 6 Precinct 2. 7 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:50 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 8 court, as follows:) 9 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 11 that wishes to be heard with respect to the installation of 12 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop located in 13 Precinct 2? Seeing no one seeking to be heard with regard to 14 that issue, I will close the public hearing regarding the 15 installation of 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird 16 Loop. 17 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:50 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 18 reopened.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I thought that would 21 be a hot topic, and I thought that that's what's filled this 22 courtroom up today. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did too. I'm 24 disappointed. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners 2-8-10 43 1 Court meeting. Let's go back to Item 3, since we skipped 2 over that. Consider, discuss, and approve and/or 3 consolidating the polling locations for the Republican or 4 Democratic runoff election into four locations. Ms. Alford? 5 MS. ALFORD: Good morning. We will probably have 6 either Republican or Democrat runoff, and we want to 7 consolidate the polling places into four places. Precinct 8 101, 107, 109, 113, 118, and 119 to be at the River Hills 9 Mall; Precinct 202, 211, and 215 at the Union Church, and 10 303, 308, 312, 314, and 320 be in the Commissioners' 11 Courtroom here at the courthouse; and all of 4's -- 404, 405, 12 406, 410, 416, and 417 -- to be at the Ingram Presbyterian 13 Church in April. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This is for the runoff only? 15 MS. ALFORD: Runoff only. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Alford? 17 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You ran by those number 19 one's real fast. Is that all of them? 20 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you want to consolidate 22 the entire precinct into one at that time? 23 MS. ALFORD: Mm-hmm, at the River Hills Mall, yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is runoff only? 25 MS. ALFORD: Runoff only, April 13th. 2-8-10 44 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so for early voting, 2 let's make sure everybody understands, early voting is at the 3 Ag Barn. 4 MS. ALFORD: Ag Barn, yes. We've already -- we did 5 that back in December, for the runoff and the primary. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: General election is at the 7 regular polling place. 8 MS. ALFORD: Correct, on March the 2nd. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: March 2nd. The runoff 10 would be consolidated into these four locations? 11 MS. ALFORD: Correct, yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Alford, this is really a 13 picky point, a matter of feet, but my understanding is that 14 Precinct 3 is the annex and Precinct 1 is the courthouse. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say again? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The annex is Precinct 3 and 17 the -- we're sitting in Precinct 1 right now. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course we are. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- 20 MS. ALFORD: I was told that this -- this -- the 21 courtroom was in 3, but I could be mistaken. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we ask the County 23 Attorney to distinguish that for us? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a point. I'd hate to have 25 an issue come up because we didn't do it inside the precinct 2-8-10 45 1 boundary. 2 MS. BAILEY: I don't know the answer, but I will 3 find out the answer. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason I say that is 'cause 5 I know the reason J.P. 1 is located here is because he's in 6 -- has to be in 1, and J.P. 3 is over there because it has to 7 be in 3. 8 MS. BAILEY: I know that the precinct line does run 9 through the courthouse. I'm just not exactly sure where in 10 the courthouse it runs. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Does the County Surveyor know 12 exactly where that line is? 13 MR. VOELKEL: I do not know. 14 MS. BAILEY: He was going to be my go-to guy. I'll 15 get with you later, Lee. 16 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. 17 MS. BOLIN: According to what we've gotten for the 18 precinct location, this corner of the courthouse and front 19 part is in 1; the rest of it's all in 3. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So we're not sitting in 1. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're in 3 right now. I 23 like that. (Laughter.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You are in unfriendly territory. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's okay. 2-8-10 46 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Communistic plot. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have a motion with 3 respect to -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Item 3? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 8 approval of Agenda Item 3. Question or discussion on the 9 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 10 right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does pass. 15 MS. ALFORD: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's move to Item 6; 17 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve 18 installing four 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird 19 Loop. Mr. Odom? 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have standing room only, I 21 think, on this item. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a big one. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: He's like you, Commissioner. He 24 thought that's what the item of the day was. 25 MR. ODOM: Mr. Ryder on Red Bird Loop has requested 2-8-10 47 1 a speed limit sign because of young people in certain areas 2 speeding out there. I think they line up their pickups and 3 see how fast they can run. There are no speed limit signs on 4 Red Bird Loop. So, we set out six traffic counters, three 5 days, to figure out what the 85 percentile was, and the -- 6 the data that we presented to you shows that basically 7 30 miles an hour was a correct speed for the people that live 8 out there. It's very difficult for Rusty to be able to have 9 a complaint, to go out there if there's not a speed limit. 10 So, at this time, we ask the Court for their approval of 11 installing four 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird 12 Lane. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 16 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 17 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move 22 to Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 23 approve private road name, Sheri Lane Northwest, located in 24 Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 25 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. On February 28th of 2002, the 2-8-10 48 1 name Sheri Lane was applied for in 911, and apparently they 2 did not pay for it to have it put up. Now the owners -- the 3 Sprays live at 112 Sheri Lane in Mountain Home, and they 4 would like to have that road sign put up on this privately 5 maintained road. So, at this time, we ask the Court for 6 their approval of the private road name of Sheri Lane 7 Northwest in Precinct 4. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 12 motion? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. 14 (Commissioner Letz left the courtroom.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to install -- 16 you're going to install the sign? 17 MR. ODOM: That's right, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what we're doing? 19 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're going to install 21 it again when somebody steals it? 22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, up to three times. And then 23 we come back -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what happens? 25 MR. ODOM: Then we come back -- well, what we'll do 2-8-10 49 1 is have them pay for it again. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you. 3 MR. ODOM: We pay for it this time. We'll install 4 it up to three times, when the kids decide they want to hang 5 it on their wall, and after that, it's up to the private -- 6 this is private property; they should pay for it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good, thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When the Sheriff goes and 9 finds those signs in this kid's bedroom, you put them back up 10 again for three more times, right? 11 MR. ODOM: And sometimes they do bring them to us, 12 and we do go back out there. Or save them, anyway. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many times has that 14 happened, Rusty? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We haven't had the theft of 16 signs, thank goodness -- knock on wood -- in quite a while, 17 but there was -- I remember several times when we've ended up 18 recovering over 100 at one time. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One house. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: TexDOT -- yeah, one house. Or 21 ours -- you know, county's. But that has happened. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Organized criminal activity. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, man, I'm telling you 24 what. Bet it's kids. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, comments on the 2-8-10 50 1 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. 7 (Commissioner Letz returned to the courtroom.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 8, to consider, discuss, take 9 appropriate action to approve the final alternate plat for 10 Lot 1 and Lot 2 of Stevens Ranch located in Precinct 2. 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Stevens owns 12.01 acres 12 on State Highway 173 right at -- essentially, right at the 13 county line going into Bandera, and would like to subdivide 14 his property into two parts. Lot 1 will be 7 acres, and 15 Lot 2 will be 5.01 acres. At this time, we ask the Court to 16 approve the final alternate plat for Lot 1 and Lot 2 of 17 Stevens Ranch, Precinct 2. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you see a problem, 19 Jonathan? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval under the 22 alternate plat process. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 25 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 2-8-10 51 1 item -- on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify 2 by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to 7 Item 9, to, consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 8 approve final alternate plat for Lot 76 of Stone Leigh Ranch, 9 also located in Precinct 2. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We had presented to the Court 11 the concept plan for Lot 76 on December the 14th, 2009. The 12 Court agreed that the Hardins could divide one lot into 13 5.01 acres and the other lot into 5.08 acres by conveying the 14 right-of-way easement instead of fee simple. Lot 76 of Stone 15 Leigh Ranch Subdivision is an unofficial subdivision; it was 16 never platted. The 10.9 acres is located at 515 Red Bird 17 Loop and is currently owned by the Hardins. At this time, we 18 ask the Court for their final approval of the alternate plat 19 of Lot 76 of Stone Leigh Ranch in Precinct 2. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 23 approval. Question or discussion? Is it possible we could 24 get corrections on the spelling of the roads up in the small 25 inset vicinity map? 2-8-10 52 1 MR. ODOM: On the map? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, for the vicinity map in the 3 upper right-hand corner of the plat. 4 MR. ODOM: I doubt -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Just to let you know I'm paying 6 attention. 7 MR. ODOM: I will check that to see. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Picky, picky, picky. This 9 is government, Judge. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: This is going to be a matter of 11 public record. I would think that the engineer who did that 12 would want his work to demonstrate his professional ability. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whose name is on it? Tell 14 us out loud. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's look at the plat. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Boerne? Red Bird? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe Mr. Charlie Digges, 18 or Mr. Digges' company. 19 MR. ODOM: Oh, I see, yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's misspelled? Oh, Boerne. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does it say? 22 MR. ODOM: It was a typo. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two typos. 24 MR. ODOM: I'm lucky to see that. I have one 25 farsighted and one nearsighted, and it's hard to -- 2-8-10 53 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't make them focus? 2 MR. ODOM: It's changed. Doctor wanted to know 3 what I was eating, that they changed. So, I -- I'm sorry I 4 missed that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you suppose you could convince 6 the engineer to make those corrections? 7 MR. ODOM: I think so. And then we can submit 8 that. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First take -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take a vote on it first. All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 17 Mr. Odom. 18 MR. ODOM: Thank you, Judge. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 10; acknowledge 20 receipt of quarterly investment report from Patterson and 21 Associates for the quarter ending December 31, 2009. 22 Ms. Williams? 23 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: You're merely asking us to 25 acknowledge receipt of this and take no other action on it? 2-8-10 54 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. It's just like we do 2 every quarter. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to 8 acknowledge receipt of same. Question or discussion on the 9 motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to 14 Item 11, report to Commissioners Court of the status of 15 investments made under Section 887(B) of the Probate Code. 16 Ms. Pieper? 17 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is one of those things 18 that I just have to do once a year, just to let you know the 19 original investments, the interest paid, the balance to-date, 20 and the name of the depository on each of these accounts. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And the action you desire the Court 22 to take? 23 MS. PIEPER: There is no action. It's just -- I 24 have to report this to the Court. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: It'll be so noted. Thank you. 2-8-10 55 1 Let's move to Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate 2 action regarding emergency helicopter medical services 3 procedures involving AirLIFE, Air Evac, and Kerrville EMS. 4 Commissioner Oehler? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this was -- of course, 6 we have no authority in this area, but we had some problems 7 arise out in the community, and this is really an effort to 8 get both providers to tell us what they're doing and how they 9 intend to proceed working basically together, but being two 10 separate entities within Kerr County. People, in my area 11 especially, have mostly signed up with Air Evac, and thought 12 they were covered, and we didn't really find out about 13 anything until just recently, that this had happened, that 14 they had -- were not doing the reciprocal since October the 15 9th of 2009. And so I'd like for them to make a presentation 16 to us and tell us what their -- their plan is in the future 17 so that the public can be informed. That's all this really 18 is, is a public information item, so that people will have 19 the -- the knowledge to make a decision whether they want to 20 buy into both services or whether they don't, or explain how 21 it all works. I believe we have the EMS -- Kerrville EMS 22 medical person here. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you suppose it would be 24 appropriate for Mr. Maloney, director of EMS, to tell us how 25 the procedure works for them to call for air assistance 2-8-10 56 1 first? And then -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that would be a great 3 idea. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Maloney, you're up. 5 MR. MALONEY: Good morning. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning, Eric. 8 MR. MALONEY: How are y'all this morning? 9 Commissioners, Judge, I guess a few things. We can talk a 10 little bit about how the process works in regards to 11 Kerrville EMS, and what our paramedics will do when they 12 arrive on scene. Basically, when dispatched to a call in the 13 county and/or in the city, if the patient information that 14 has come across is significant, maybe a motor vehicle crash, 15 maybe even from a heart attack or a stroke standpoint, the 16 paramedics will then put an air medical transport service on 17 standby. The standby position from there is not specifically 18 for Air Evac and not specifically for AirLIFE. We -- we look 19 to the closest available air medical transport. Now, we are 20 lucky enough here in Kerrville actually to have two in 21 Kerrville, based here. So, what we've done, and what we sat 22 down and discussed in the past in a meeting is that we would 23 put this on a rotation between them, try to keep -- Air Evac 24 would take the first one, and for them to transport a 25 patient. Then AirLIFE will back up for the second one, and 2-8-10 57 1 vice-versa, as best we could, as best our dispatch could 2 handle that. 3 Once the paramedics arrive on scene and they 4 determine the patient's condition, it still needs to be 5 transported to San Antonio, 'cause sometimes transport to San 6 Antonio is to a Level 1 trauma center, and then again, 7 sometimes it's maybe to a stroke center, or even for some 8 sort of a heart attack center, which would be Texsan. So, we 9 are sending patients. The determination is also made by the 10 paramedics as to what the abilities are at Peterson Regional. 11 So, although some of these patients are critical and do need 12 to be transported to San Antonio, there also is a group of 13 patients that Peterson Regional cannot handle, and therefore, 14 also need to be transported to San Antonio for care. Once 15 they are on scene, they will do their patient assessment. If 16 it is brought to their attention, or if it does come up that 17 they are an Air Evac member, per se, then -- and AirLIFE 18 happened to be on standby, then we will contact our dispatch 19 and see if, locally, Air Evac is available. If, locally, 20 they're available, we will switch services, and then we will 21 have -- Air Evac may make scene, or vice-versa, obviously, if 22 they're an AirLIFE member for that. But, first and foremost, 23 our paramedics out there on the field -- in the field, we 24 want to do what's right for the patient medically, not 25 financially. To make financial decisions on a patient's 2-8-10 58 1 health -- on anyone's health is very difficult, and if anyone 2 were to say, "You're going to receive a $21,000 bill if 3 you're going to be transported to San Antonio, that is going 4 to be very difficult for anyone, and be very stressful. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's another heart 6 attack. 7 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. As -- as 8 with -- even with our own service. We do not stress with our 9 paramedics to discuss financial or fee service with our 10 customers out there. In fact, I would venture to guess that 11 most of the paramedics in the field do not even really know 12 what we charge as an EMS, because making those decisions, we 13 always want to make the right decision medically for where 14 the patient needs to go, whether it be Peterson Regional or 15 San Antonio. If it's San Antonio, obviously, we have to use 16 one of the services from there, so we'll do the best we can 17 to kind of honor that in the county, or in the city, for that 18 matter. There are occasions, though, if somebody happened to 19 be an Air Evac member -- I keep using them. If they happened 20 to be an Air Evac member and they're not available locally, 21 their next available is out of Hondo, so -- next closest air 22 medical transport. But AirLIFE is closer; they're available 23 in town locally, and ready to launch. 24 Delaying a patient's care -- obviously, if we need 25 to transport a patient to San Antonio for definitive care, 2-8-10 59 1 it's not in their best interest to wait another 20, 25 2 minutes on scene for that, and our medical director, 3 Dr. Nail, does not want us to wait at LZ for another 20, 25 4 minutes when we can transport with AirLIFE here. But we are 5 very lucky, and I think that's one of the things I do want to 6 make sure we all know. We are very, very fortunate to have 7 two air medical services in a town of 25,000 and a county of 8 50,000. This is -- we are one of probably very few, and I 9 don't know if I could name another one without getting into 10 big cities that actually has this ability and has this 11 service available. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Maloney, let me give you a 13 for-instance. Suppose -- suppose your EMS people make a 14 scene, and they are -- they are told by either the patient or 15 patient's family that's on scene that if air transport is 16 necessary, this -- this particular patient or family 17 subscribes to one service or the other, even if the next up 18 on rotation is, say, the other service. If that -- if the 19 subscribed service is, in fact, available on basically the 20 same time frame, is it -- is it the policy of your folks to 21 honor that -- honor that request or -- or that information 22 that you receive? 23 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. If there is no time delay 24 with bringing Air Evac or AirLIFE, whichever one they happen 25 to be a member for, we will meet that request if at all 2-8-10 60 1 possible for that. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, sometimes you -- you 3 don't get the benefit of that information, because the 4 patient's unconscious, there's no one else around. 5 MR. MALONEY: Correct. Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I've noticed a number of -- a number 7 of vehicles with these stickers on them -- 8 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- which indicate membership. Would 10 that cause your people -- say if it was out of an automobile 11 accident or other situation where there was a vehicle 12 involved which obviously belonged to the patient or the 13 patient's family, that you would respond accordingly? 14 MR. MALONEY: Not necessarily. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 MR. MALONEY: We do not search for membership 17 programs to find out if a patient is on one versus the other 18 one, whose vehicle they're in for the sticker. The stickers 19 are great, but once again, we really need to be notified by 20 the customer that you are a member of one program versus the 21 other. Now, we'll do the best we can to advise. Most of the 22 time, if it's a medical transport from the scene, the family 23 member may be there and say, you know, "I'm an AirLIFE 24 member," that, therefore, you know, when we transport, we 25 will do everything we can to meet that request. But we never 2-8-10 61 1 want the paramedic to actually search for insurance or 2 medically to delay anything, patient care-wise, 'cause I 3 really want them to concentrate on the medical aspect, not 4 the financial. And we can all work with the financial 5 afterwards, which is a part of our responsibility to do both. 6 There are also occasions -- and one, for instance, sometimes 7 on large motor vehicle crashes, we bring in both -- both air 8 medical services. And that has happened recently, and over 9 the numerous years that I have been here. So, we will do 10 everything we can, if someone mentions that they are a 11 member, but at that point we are transporting patients to 12 definitive care in San Antonio, and once again, we have to do 13 what's best for every patient medically, first and foremost. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Great. I think that's a good 15 background. And I'm not -- my next question really is, what 16 do they charge? What's their deal? And you don't know that. 17 MR. MALONEY: No, sir, you would be better served 18 to ask them. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Maloney. 20 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I note two of your bosses, I guess 22 we could call them, for lack of a better term, are there. 23 Chief Ojeda and Assistant Chief Mark Beavers are with us. 24 Welcome. Glad to have you here. 25 MR. OJEDA: Good to be here, sir. 2-8-10 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have representatives from -- from 2 AirLIFE and Air Evac here? 3 MR. HILLIARD: Yes, AirLIFE here, and I see the Air 4 Evac here. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Does someone want to come forward 6 and tell us about your particular program? And I think of 7 particular interest would be -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is Air Evac. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what efforts are being made to do 10 some sort of a reciprocation arrangement. 11 MR. CLARK: Morning. My name's Nick Clark. I'm 12 the program director at the Kerrville base for Air Evac 13 Lifeteam. We've been here as Air Evac since May of '05. The 14 Air Evac was founded in '85 in Missouri. And one of the ways 15 that they've found -- or one of the programs that they sort 16 of followed was a program that offered a membership. 17 Basically, they've taken in this membership program, and 18 throughout our company, have over 800,000 members. 19 Basically, what it is, is if you are a member of our program 20 and you are flown by us, you will not receive a bill. For, I 21 guess, four and a half years, or four years now, that's not 22 really been a big issue, because we were the only provider in 23 Kerrville. Now, still, it could have come up, and even at 24 that, with AirLIFE being out of San Antonio, if we were out 25 of service -- out of service or out of the area, they still 2-8-10 63 1 could have come from San Antonio, picked up a member, and 2 that still could have been an issue even before -- before 3 they had their base here. And so, surprisingly, it never 4 was, honestly. 5 I know recently there's been two different -- two 6 separate occasions when this has happened. Both of them -- 7 in both cases, the member was a member prior to AirLIFE 8 either being here, or before they had their membership 9 program, so I don't know exactly the route that these people 10 got their membership, if they talked to one of our membership 11 people, if they called the office in Missouri. But either 12 way, there was no -- there was no other membership program in 13 this area for us to speak of. So -- so, it's an unfortunate 14 circumstance, and -- but there is potential for that to 15 happen. On the one case, we were out of the county, in 16 another county on another flight, and that's why they got the 17 call, because AirLIFE was here in town locally. And, as Eric 18 said -- and my history, I'm a registered nurse. You know, 19 patient care comes first. That is the priority. It's lovely 20 to think of everybody's finances. I mean, we all do; we 21 think of our own. But when you're truly talking if they need 22 us to fly that person, that person is in bad enough condition 23 that -- you know, the financial part of it can be addressed 24 to an extent, but when it really comes right down to it, the 25 patient care is the issue at hand. 2-8-10 64 1 So, as far as any type of reciprocation, 2 unfortunately, by law, we are not able to do that. What -- 3 basically, what you're paying for with our membership program 4 is you're paying a co-pay or a deductible as far as for 5 insurance, Medicare, Medicaid. Basically, that's -- we're in 6 compliance with the office of the -- oh, I'm trying to think 7 who we're in compliance with. But we're in compliance with 8 the office of the -- the Inspector General, as far as that 9 goes. But, basically, what you're paying for is, you're 10 paying for our service. You're paying a deductible for our 11 service. Same thing, I would assume, with theirs. When 12 you're paying their membership program fee, you're paying for 13 their service, so you can't -- you can't pay for ours and use 14 theirs, and vice-versa. So, it's -- you know, it would sort 15 of be liking going to Chili's to eat and then paying 16 Fuddruckers, you know. 17 So -- and on the -- the -- what are we going to do 18 about it? You know, basically, what I've tried to do with my 19 crews, and what I'm trying to do myself, is we do a lot of 20 public relations stuff. We're out in the community. We do 21 landing zone classes with volunteer fire departments. We do 22 things like that. Now, what we do when we go to these places 23 is we tell these people -- you know, we tell people there are 24 two aircraft in town. There are two membership programs. 25 Now, I can't put that in an advertisement anywhere or 2-8-10 65 1 anything like that, but I do tell it word of mouth, because I 2 know it's not well-known. You can put it in the newspaper. 3 You can put it in different places, but it's still -- in 4 order to get the word out to everyone, it's a pretty 5 difficult thing. It's a pretty daunting task to try and do 6 that. So, you know, we're doing it one person or one group 7 at a time. But in order to -- I don't have a great solution 8 in order to get it out to everyone in Kerr County. And 9 Gillespie County and Mason County and Bandera County. I 10 mean, that's the other thing, is it's quite a large service 11 area that both companies are dealing with. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently there was a reciprocal 13 agreement up until October of last year? 14 MR. CLARK: Yes, sir, there was. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that an unlawful agreement, if 16 you couldn't lawfully enter into an agreement with -- 17 MR. CLARK: The gentleman from AirLIFE can probably 18 talk with you more about that one. I don't know exactly how 19 that worked, but they did honor ours for one year, and that's 20 what they said when they moved their base into town. And 21 then on October 9th, that was -- they opened their 22 membership -- August? Of last year. 23 MR. HILLIARD: Yes. 24 MR. CLARK: Yes? Correct? And so that's when they 25 established their membership program. And that was what they 2-8-10 66 1 had agreed to initially. I -- I don't know about all the 2 legal aspect of that. I have no idea. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: But your position is that your 4 service is unable legally to enter into a reciprocal 5 agreement with the other provider? 6 MR. CLARK: Correct. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. CLARK: And there's a lot of different reasons 9 probably also for that. I don't know. By no means am I a 10 lawyer, but -- or know all the laws pertaining exactly to 11 this, but it's two very separate companies run very separate 12 ways. You know, we're a private company, for profit. 13 They're a not-for-profit agency. So, you know, there's a lot 14 of different -- differences there. So -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this 16 gentleman? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I've got a comment. 18 And maybe -- you know, I'm going to make my comment about all 19 this, that I'm unhappy about it, and I am really unhappy 20 about it. And maybe you can respond right now, or you can 21 take a deep breath and take a shower and all that and come 22 back later. 23 MR. CLARK: Do I need a shower? Wait a minute. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But the original 25 presentation in this room from your company, not a damn word 2-8-10 67 1 of that was -- was said to us. We go to the -- we go to the 2 trouble and go out and ask all of our employees -- 3 MS. LAVENDER: Wrong. Wrong company. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wrong company? I'm sorry. 5 MR. CLARK: I'm saying hold on. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He doesn't have to take a 7 shower now. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're Air Evac? 9 MR. CLARK: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I apologize to you. 11 Will you accept my apology? 12 MR. CLARK: Yes, sir, absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't wait till the next 14 ones get up here. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a clear signal. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all come on up. 17 AUDIENCE: Duck. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this 19 gentleman? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 23 MR. CLARK: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have one question. 25 MR. CLARK: Yes, sir? 2-8-10 68 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to talk to you, but 2 I want to go through Ms. Hyde. Which one of these services 3 did we offer to our employees? 4 MS. HYDE: We offered AirLIFE at $10 annually. 5 One-time fee of $10. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AirLIFE, okay. That's the 7 other company. 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a significant 10 number of our employees who signed up for that. The question 11 to you, then, is do you also offer a program similar to what 12 AirLIFE did for Kerr County's employees? That's the micro 13 part. The macro part is the county-wide -- 14 MR. CLARK: Yes, sir. Basically, what we offer, as 15 far as getting down to a $10 membership, we would have a 16 membership program that would cover all the employees while 17 they're at work. Now -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While they're at work? 19 MR. CLARK: While they're at work. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I'm at home sleeping and 21 have a heart attack, I'm -- it's not covered? 22 MR. CLARK: Correct, for $10. The best we can 23 do -- 24 MR. BOLLIER: Crawl to the office. 25 MR. CLARK: I have to refer to my gentleman back 2-8-10 69 1 here in the back. For -- I believe if there's more than 100 2 people, it would be $45 per person to cover them and their 3 family 24/7. 4 MR. EULER: Nick, I can address a little bit of 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's have a little bit 7 more enlightenment here. 8 MR. EULER: The fees aren't just set -- the 9 membership costs aren't just set arbitrarily, just -- there's 10 reasons for all of it. If you look into the -- the Medicare 11 laws, there has to be a deductible for even service provided, 12 for medical service provided for a Medicare patient. Air 13 Evac looks at it as well. We're going to make sure that 14 everybody that we sell a membership to, whether it be through 15 a group, through an individual, however, is going to make 16 sure that that membership amount covers that Medicare co-pay 17 as dictated by federal law. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Before we go further, why don't we 19 get your name on the record. You're from Air Evac? 20 MR. EULER: Yes, sir. I'm Kenneth Euler. I'm a 21 representative with Air Evac. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you, sir. Continue. 23 I'm sorry to interrupt. 24 MR. EULER: That's okay. So, the Air Evac 25 standpoint is that we're -- the membership price, the 2-8-10 70 1 cheapest price we're going to go, the lowest price we're 2 going to go is going to be that that satisfies a Medicare 3 patient. Private insurance, that type of stuff, have 4 different amount of co-pays, but we're most concerned with 5 the Medicare co-pay. Now, the way AirLIFE does it -- comes 6 up with their calculations is a whole different animal. I'm 7 not familiar with that. I don't know anything about that. 8 But when we talk about covering employees for $10 a -- groups 9 for $10 a person, the reason why we can do that is because 10 people that work for the county, people that work for school 11 districts, that type of stuff, and while they're on the job, 12 they're employed; they're not Medicare recipients most of the 13 time. So, that -- that's how that program -- that is how our 14 company have used the program. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're not a Medicare 16 recipient unless you're 65 years old. 17 MR. EULER: Exactly. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I suggest to you that the 19 large segment of our employee group is not in that category. 20 MR. EULER: I understand that, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So where does that leave 22 us? 23 MR. EULER: Well, the standpoint from Air Evac is 24 that they are not -- it's just a company policy that they're 25 not going to offer memberships below the amount of Medicare's 2-8-10 71 1 requirement. The -- take, for example, Harper ISD. They are 2 now members. All their employees and their students are 3 members. If they're doing any school functions, at $4 -- the 4 children are $4 a member, and then the adults or the 5 teachers/employees are $10 a member. If they're doing 6 anything on school property, any type of school function, the 7 children and the teachers/employees are considered full Air 8 Evac members. Now, when they go home, that is not the case. 9 They are not Air Evac members unless they decide to upgrade 10 their personal membership plan, and which they'll get a $10 11 discount on the rate of membership. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, to make certain I 13 understand this correctly, as an employee of Kerr County, as 14 long as I'm in this courthouse or on county business -- on 15 county business? 16 MR. EULER: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I'm covered if 18 something happens to me. Correct or incorrect? 19 MR. EULER: Yes, sir, that is correct. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. When I get in my car 21 and go home, take off my county hat, and something happens to 22 me en route or at home, I am not covered? 23 MR. EULER: That's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct or incorrect? 25 MR. EULER: That is correct, unless -- 2-8-10 72 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My wife is not covered. 2 Correct or incorrect? 3 MR. EULER: That is correct. Your wife is not 4 covered. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 6 MR. EULER: A full household membership like what 7 those brochures -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 9 MR. EULER: Like the brochures that we passed out 10 to you gentlemen, that would enable you to be a member all 11 the time, 24/7, as long as you're in our coverage area, which 12 is 15 states. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, to satisfy the problem 14 we have before us right now, which is maybe you are, maybe 15 you aren't covered, then whether you are an employee of Kerr 16 County or whether you are a resident of Kerr County, or 17 surrounding hill country counties, your best option to make 18 certain that you are 100 percent covered 24 hours a day, 19 seven days a week, during 365 days a year, is to have both of 20 them. 21 MR. EULER: That's my contention, and I have both. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A family membership? 23 MR. EULER: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: There was mention -- I'm sorry. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. 2-8-10 73 1 MR. EULER: I mean, I'm not going to -- you know, 2 obviously, these two companies are big companies; very, you 3 know, well-off, and one company's not going to mandate us out 4 in the field to market for another company, and vice-versa. 5 But common sense -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I understand. 7 MR. EULER: I agree with you. That's why I'm a 8 member of both. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: There was some mention made 11 initially about a group rate, if there were 100 or more 12 employees signed up through Kerr County, for an entire 13 family, 365, 24/7, would be a 45 annual rate? 14 MR. EULER: The actual number is 150 or more 15 employees. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MR. EULER: Yeah, we have price breaks at 50 18 employees and at 150. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what is it at 150? $45? 20 MR. EULER: $45 across the board. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Entire family? 22 MR. EULER: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 24/7? 24 MR. EULER: 27/7, anywhere in our coverage area. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 2-8-10 74 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's below 150? 2 MS. HYDE: If it's below 150? 3 MR. CLARK: We're on the same -- we're from the 4 same company. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're both the same -- 6 MR. CLARK: Yes, sir. 7 MR. EULER: We have a question over here about 150. 8 If you're above 50, but below 150, then it's a $10 rate 9 decrease, respectively, for a one-, two-, or three-member 10 household. 11 MS. HYDE: So -- I'm sorry, you said a decrease, so 12 that means $35 if you only have 50 people? 13 MR. EULER: Well, it's 45 across the board for more 14 than 150. From 100 to 150 -- our rate structure is 60, 55 15 and 50. If you have a one-person household, it's $50. 16 Just -- that's not discounted. If you have a two-person 17 household, it's 55. If you have a three-person household, 18 it's 60. Or more -- three or more in the household is $60. 19 We take $10 off those amounts respectively if you have a 20 group of 50 or more. Did I get that clear as mud? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: So, 50 or more, it's -- it's $50 for 22 the entire family, three or more. 23 MR. EULER: 45 and 40. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Forty-five for two-member, and 40 25 for a single individual. But at 150, the whole family, three 2-8-10 75 1 or more, is 45? 2 MR. EULER: That's correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that -- but, of course, 4 then the general public out here on a -- not a group rate, so 5 to speak, is the general rate schedule that you've got 6 delineated in your brochure price? 7 MR. EULER: That's correct, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MR. EULER: Just so y'all know, that a lot of the 10 volunteer firefighters' organizations are members as a group, 11 and we're working with different banking institutions. We 12 offer employee benefits to not just governmental agencies, 13 but any -- you can have five employees that want to -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Any major employer? 15 MR. EULER: Yeah, benefit employee packages. So, a 16 lot more of the community also receives discounted rates due 17 to those type of -- of marketing plans also. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for these 19 gentlemen? Yes, ma'am, you had a question? 20 MS. McCORD: Yes, sir. I'd like to know, how many 21 members do you have in the hill country area? 22 MR. CLARK: Very good question. And I, 23 unfortunately, didn't bring that with me. I can give you 24 sort of a round number. I believe there's about 2,500 in 25 Kerr -- in Kerrville. I believe there's about 3,000 in Kerr 2-8-10 76 1 County. Gillespie County, I'm going to say I believe 2 somewheres around 700 or 800. And in Mason County, I believe 3 there's right around 1,000, I believe. So -- give or take. 4 And then there's a few, Rocksprings and areas like that. 5 MS. McCORD: The reason I asked that is because I'm 6 an Air Evac member, and have been, and I believe 7 I've contributed a lot to getting other members for the 8 service as well. I'm Heidi McCord, thank you. And it would 9 seem that -- you mentioned you're having trouble getting word 10 out to other members that there was an AirLIFE service, which 11 I was not aware of until just recently, and it would seem 12 that Air Evac would want to send a letter of communication to 13 its members saying we have another service provider in your 14 area. We want to make you aware of that so that in the event 15 that you are airlifted, you need to really make sure that you 16 request Air Evac, or realize that someone else is providing 17 service, and you might want to look into membership with them 18 as well. And I hope to address these gentlemen here in a few 19 minutes about my particular situation. And just realize that 20 for $200 to $300 in postage, that a lot of this could have 21 been avoided, and in informing the public a little bit better 22 than hearsay and talking with people one by one. 23 MR. CLARK: Correct. And -- and you're absolutely 24 correct. Unfortunately, Missouri's 800 miles away, and they 25 don't know the exact issues with each and every base as far 2-8-10 77 1 as competition and et cetera, et cetera. 2 MS. McCORD: That's not Missouri's job; that's your 3 two's job as field directors for this base. 4 MR. CLARK: But it's also their job, as new -- 5 having a new aircraft in this area, and there were press 6 releases in the newspaper when they arrived. Now -- 7 MS. McCORD: Yeah. I can get a bill when my 8 membership is due, but I can't get something notifying me 9 that there's something else going on in the community. 10 MR. EULER: I agree with exactly what you're 11 saying. The problem -- the problem with letting everybody 12 know is that it's such a dynamic -- we have brochure racks in 13 all -- a lot of the stores, banks and stuff, and we -- we 14 here locally can't keep track of everybody that's signing up. 15 We -- we were dependent on the press releases to get the word 16 out, and through word of mouth and through our presentations, 17 making sure we're educating people on that issue. If -- and 18 some have fallen through the cracks. We understand that. 19 It's been a concern of ours. We've talked about that, and we 20 keep just trying to eat the elephant one bite at a time. 21 That's our side of that. Anything else, gentlemen? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this 23 gentleman? Okay. Are you ready for the barbecue, 24 Commissioner Baldwin? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 2-8-10 78 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. HILLIARD: Well, certainly, I think that I am 3 the turkey that's going to be roasted. But I would like to 4 address it in a very positive manner, because one is, the 5 intent has been to benefit the community as a good neighbor. 6 And if you go back, basically, two years ago -- if you go 7 back originally, AirLIFE is owned by the Baptist Health 8 System and University Health System in San Antonio. The 9 university has a trauma mission to cover Service Area P, and 10 Service Area P covers 22 counties, Kerr being one of those. 11 One of their requirements is to provide rapid air transport 12 for trauma back to the University Health System. With that, 13 Baptist AirLIFE actually started and served Kerr County and 14 the other counties from '91 to '95, before any other provider 15 was here. Critical Air came in. We still serviced it as a 16 good neighbor. Two years ago, we signed a preferred provider 17 agreement with the hospital, and when we came in at that 18 time, we made -- announcements went out, folks, in light that 19 several citizens had bought Air Evac, we would honor that. 20 Because we can't do a reciprocal agreement because of law. 21 We're not-for-profit; they're for-profit. There are some 22 constraints there in terms -- now, I have reciprocal 23 agreements which are lawful, but they're with 24 not-for-profits; CareFlite in Dallas, HALO-Flight in Corpus 25 Christi. Which, if you're in those areas, you would be 2-8-10 79 1 covered by AirLIFE. 2 Now, as you go to the membership, I went out to 3 market to each of the county governments. Folks, this is 4 something we would offer, and it is for 24-hour coverage. 5 It's for the entire family. And, as a matter of fact, our 6 membership of $49 covers the entire family, everybody at that 7 residence. So, I believe when you went and med-evac'd, I 8 honored several flights from August -- excuse me, October the 9 1st through September -- August 1st, '08, through 10 September 30th, '09. Those flights flew. I did not bill 11 those patients any of the delta. With that, certainly, I 12 went out and I have been marketing to each of the county 13 governments. Some of the county governments have taken 14 these; others have opted not to. 15 But, certainly, if you look at it -- and what 16 Mr. Clark said, they cannot respect -- or have a reciprocal 17 agreement with a not-for-profit. They're a for-profit, so 18 from that perspective, that is a correct statement. And, 19 certainly, if you look at it and you look at AirLIFE as a 20 part of your community, good neighbor, it started two -- 21 excuse me, 1991. As a matter of fact, I created AirLIFE 22 January 1st, 1991. I have flown over 200 patients before 23 there was another air provider in the county. The hospital 24 went with, at that time, Critical Air. It wasn't Air Evac. 25 And we -- I certainly was a good neighbor, because we would 2-8-10 80 1 fly specialty flights when they had neonates and peds that 2 require additional crew members, 'cause we have a larger 3 aircraft, and with stuff that would accommodate those type 4 medical missions. 5 Went back -- certainly, Eric and the hospital, 6 we've worked with them to -- if there's somebody that has a 7 membership, certainly, we -- that's who they should fly with. 8 Occasionally, under the circumstances, if you look at a wreck 9 out there, and nobody's talking, and you're making a decision 10 on life or death, you've got to make a call. They make a 11 call. Certainly, I would -- it would be unfortunate for any 12 of those that got caught in that circumstance. Certainly, I 13 have been marketing. I have done mail-outs; I have an 14 online, and certainly I will continue to market through LZ 15 courses and others, recognizing that there is competition in 16 the area. And, certainly, AirLIFE is here. We're proud to 17 be in Kerrville. And, as Eric said, two services are here. 18 But it's unfortunate that it seems to be that there's -- 19 someone was misled, 'cause, certainly, I am -- want to talk 20 with Buster over here -- Commissioner, whatever that concern 21 may be. 'Cause, certainly, from our position, it was one of 22 integrity. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were you the gentleman that 24 made the presentation on behalf of your company? 25 MR. HILLIARD: No, I was not, unfortunately. 2-8-10 81 1 Mr. Solis made that. And he was out of town today, or he 2 would be with me. But I -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- it just seems to me 4 that when -- when he was in this room, he -- in his 5 presentation, that he would let us know that there may be a 6 hiccup in this system. But he didn't. I mean, we felt like 7 that -- that you -- your company, if we signed on with them, 8 that your company were going to come and pick us up when we 9 needed it and go; there wasn't anything else about another 10 company. If another company picked us up, then we were going 11 to be charged full price. Not -- and to my memory, nothing 12 like that was ever presented. And so we get down the -- we 13 kick the ball down the road, we're fixing to sign up, and all 14 of a sudden Commissioner Oehler -- some friends of his go 15 through this. And, to me, that's just -- I mean, I'm not 16 going to say that your company came in and lied to us, but -- 17 or even the word "mislead." I won't even -- I'm going to be 18 nice to you, because you weren't here. But it's -- my trust 19 -- my -- this is just me talking here; I'm not talking -- 20 speaking for these guys. 21 MR. HILLIARD: Absolutely. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My trust in your company has 23 really dropped because of this. 24 MR. HILLIARD: Well -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, now we're either -- our 2-8-10 82 1 -- our 300 employees are asked now to join two companies, or 2 go back to square one and do without it altogether. And it's 3 just -- I'm disappointed in that. I'm really disappointed in 4 it. 5 MR. HILLIARD: I'm disappointed in it too, because 6 -- in terms -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you fix it? 8 MR. HILLIARD: Well -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back to the Judge's 10 question. Judge, would you ask him your question about the 11 legality? I'm really curious about that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: In his initial remarks, I understood 13 him to say that it wasn't lawful for him to enter into a 14 for-profit operation, inasmuch as he's nonprofit. But my 15 question to the Air Evac provider was, then, during this 16 reciprocity time that went on for about a year, we had an 17 illegal agreement. Is that essentially correct? 18 MR. HILLIARD: No. I -- I honored theirs, but it 19 was not a reciprocal agreement. I signed no agreements. I 20 just said in good faith, to cover those who had membership, 21 Judge, that we would not bill for that difference, and that 22 we insured that the Medicare/Medicaid requirement was met. 23 And, certainly, in light of that, going back -- and as you -- 24 and, certainly, I will let Air Evac speak for themselves, 25 because their policies and procedures are very clear. But 2-8-10 83 1 they could not honor -- if we flew, had we flown one -- had 2 they flown one of our patients, they would not have been 3 covered, period. Now, certainly, in terms of communications, 4 I apologize for any communications that was not there. 5 I think one of the things is, it has really not 6 been -- maybe the reason it was not mentioned that there was 7 another, because until this actually -- I was unaware until 8 very recently, getting a call, that there was an issue of any 9 type. Certainly, though, I'm probably as concerned as you 10 are. I'm probably a little bit more concerned. And, 11 certainly, I will stand on AirLIFE's reputation for a good 12 community partner, and for 19 years of service. And, 13 certainly, for that I don't make an apology. But, certainly, 14 I do apologize if one of my employees has not communicated 15 accurately enough, and essentially to create. But I believe 16 this was dynamics that would have occurred somewhere along 17 the way, not due to Air Evac or AirLIFE, but in terms of that 18 coverage. The coverage was offered to you as a group, 19 certainly that option. If you don't -- if you feel you do 20 not want to enter into that, that would be a vote right here, 21 certainly. Your power and your authority to do that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think part of the problem 23 was -- goes back to what we believed to be a reciprocal 24 agreement in place. Perhaps -- perhaps that was represented 25 to us that there was such an agreement in place, and 2-8-10 84 1 therefore, membership in one would, in effect, be provided -- 2 provide coverage in both, if that were the case. What you're 3 saying to us today is that there wasn't a formal reciprocal 4 agreement in place. There was just your willingness to 5 extend your services for a short period of time, or -- 6 MR. HILLIARD: For one year. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One year. 8 MR. HILLIARD: And, as a matter of fact, Air Evac 9 had -- had the hospital preferred provider agreement. When 10 the hospital signed their preferred provider agreement with 11 AirLIFE, there was members who had taken membership with Air 12 Evac. And we published in the paper, I spoke at the 13 Optimists Club, everybody in town here, folks, we will honor 14 one year, that membership. And that started October the 1st 15 and went through September '08 -- through September 30th. 16 Now, folks, for a business, that's stepping out there and 17 taking a lot of financial risk. Took it. There was a number 18 of people we flew and that we paid for. Never a question. 19 Honorable action. And I'm concerned, because I've been -- 20 it's not really said, but pretty close, not quite kosher. 21 And I take great exception to that comment. Great exception, 22 'cause if you look at the actions, as my daddy used to say, 23 actions speak louder than words. Did I honor my word for one 24 year? Did I cover those costs for one year? Was I up front? 25 Yes, I was. AirLIFE was. University Health System was. The 2-8-10 85 1 Baptist Health System was. And I feel very strongly about 2 the integrity of work and of operation. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you didn't receive any 4 payment for that one-year reciprocal agreement? 5 MR. HILLIARD: No. There was no -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From anybody that you call -- 7 MR. EULER: No. 8 MR. HILLIARD: There was no reciprocal agreement. 9 There was no contract signed. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you got no compensation 11 for any flight you did during that time? 12 MR. HILLIARD: If they were Air Evac -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Air Evac members. 14 MR. HILLIARD: Air Evac made no payments to me 15 whatsoever. We never billed them. Is that correct? Never 16 billed them. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's paid for by the patient, 18 not by -- 19 MR. HILLIARD: Well, if the insurance didn't pay 20 it, no. It came -- we wrote it off. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 22 MR. HILLIARD: It came out of my operation budget. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the real problem 24 here, from what I figured -- you know, I've been at this 25 thing since the beginning when the problem came up. You 2-8-10 86 1 know, evidently, you haven't done a real good job of 2 marketing in this -- in Kerr County, so that people would 3 know that there was another service that they probably should 4 buy a membership in. 5 MR. HILLIARD: Well -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's the part that gets 7 me with all the people that I talk to. I live out west. 8 Most everybody out there has membership with Air Evac. They 9 had no idea there was a membership available by AirLIFE until 10 this came up. 11 MR. HILLIARD: An excellent point, because when 12 AirLIFE started, AirLIFE's membership, we started it October 13 this year. Okay. When we came, we were in discussions with 14 Lincoln National, but the national insurance company -- we 15 had the great recession, everybody backed off the risk. And 16 we had promised we would have something in place, so the 17 partners, University Health System and Baptist, we created 18 the Guardian Angel program, and we initiated that October of 19 this year. When we initiated, we started to market. We've 20 been marketing probably 120 days. Certainly, if we -- with 21 that, could we not always be as clear? Certainly, I can tell 22 you one thing. My guidance is -- and often I do the 23 speaking, so if somebody makes a mistake, it would be me, but 24 Steve could possibly be -- is to insure that here's a 25 product. We believe it is a superior product. It covers 2-8-10 87 1 everybody in that family. It covers for the entire period of 2 time. Certainly, I do apologize, because when a man tells me 3 he's lost a little trust, it bothers me, and the word was not 4 accurate enough to communicate what we were trying to do as a 5 good neighbor. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 7 MR. HILLIARD: Yes? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. I want to go back to 9 something -- going back to something that Eric Maloney said 10 and that you've said. And I don't know all the hospitals and 11 who-all's really with who in San Antonio, but Eric made a 12 statement, if it's a heart problem, it goes to Texsan. And 13 I'm hearing you say that you all work for Baptist and 14 University. Is -- who makes the call as to what hospital? 15 MR. HILLIARD: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 17 MR. HILLIARD: It will vary. And, as a matter of 18 fact, AirLIFE flies into all the hospitals in San Antonio. 19 If there is a preference -- if the patient is able to give a 20 preference, or his family, that's the hospital it goes to. 21 That simple. And I think -- Eric, is that not the policy? 22 MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. With the Kerrville Fire 23 Department, we do not choose destinations in San Antonio, 24 because we are not actually the transport agency, so that 25 would be with AirLIFE. Shawn Salter, the clinical 2-8-10 88 1 operations, and also Air Evac, they make the decision. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When I said Texsan, that was 3 just an example; I just pulled it out -- 4 MR. MALONEY: Texsan, any of those hospitals, he 5 could probably answer. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's suppose there's -- there's not 7 a -- the patient's unable to voice a preference, a family 8 member is not -- not present to do so, or doesn't -- doesn't 9 voice a preference. What -- to what facility is the patient 10 transported? 11 MR. MALONEY: If they do not voice anything, well, 12 then that would be a determination by their crew here. 13 MR. SALTER: Gentlemen, my name is Shawn Salter; I 14 am the assistant program director and chief flight nurse for 15 San Antonio AirLIFE. So, patients have first preference as 16 to a facility. If a patient says that they want to go to 17 Hospital X, we will -- if we the medical crew believe that 18 that Facility X could meet the medical needs of that patient, 19 we would happily deliver them there. A good example would be 20 picking up a patient who has an obstetrical emergency, and 21 the patient desires to go to the Nix. The Nix is a very 22 comprehensive facility, but it doesn't offer emergency 23 obstetrical services. We would consult with that person and 24 let them know that there are other facilities of their 25 choice. We -- they have the entire list. We provide them 2-8-10 89 1 the entire list; they get to choose. And we'll take them to 2 the facility of their choice. Our medical staff are very 3 familiar whenever hospitals have what we call diversion 4 status. It may -- it's not uncommon, as a good example, for 5 one of the military trauma centers to not have a neurosurgeon 6 on duty that particular day. Well, if your injury involved 7 the head, and there's a likelihood of you requiring 8 neurosurgical services, we would not take you to that 9 military installation. Instead, we would take you to the 10 next trauma facility that does offer that, which could be 11 another military installation. So, the patient decides 12 first. If there is a conflict in us believing that that 13 facility cannot provide that emergency procedure that they 14 will likely require, then through consultation, we'll come up 15 with the next facility for receipt for the patient. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's -- let's suppose 17 there's no guidance given to you. How is that call made as 18 to what facility you go to? 19 MR. SALTER: I would say then the first question 20 would be -- we break it down into two different categories. 21 If it is a trauma patient, the patient is going to go to one 22 of the Level 1 trauma centers, of which right now we have 23 three in San Antonio; University Hospital, Brook Army Medical 24 Center, and Wilford Hall Medical Center. If that trauma 25 patient has military benefits, they would go to one of the 2-8-10 90 1 closest military Level 1 trauma centers. If the patient does 2 not have benefits and they meet Level 1 trauma criteria, they 3 would be taken to the closest trauma hospital, whether that 4 be military or civilian. So, a good example would be 5 transporting a patient from Kerr County, if it is a trauma 6 victim, to -- unless they are a military dependent, they are 7 likely going to be delivered to University Hospital. If you 8 are a medical patient -- again, it's based upon your needs, 9 that we're going to make the determination as to where you 10 go. If I pick up a patient -- they're from California; they 11 were traveling on I-10. They stopped at a rest area, had a 12 medical emergency, we pick them up, and we believe that they 13 have a vascular problem. Obviously, there are a whole host 14 of facilities within San Antonio that offer vascular 15 services. We might ask them if they have a preference for 16 Baptist, Methodist, Santa Rosa, and we would deliver the 17 patient to that facility. We even deliver patients to 18 hospitals that do not have helipads. We will land and 19 provide that last portion of ground transport over to deliver 20 them to their facility of choice. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just kind of trying to wrap it 22 up, what I'm hearing is that there's really no intent for the 23 two companies to get together, and -- or two entities, I 24 mean. And for legal reasons, possibly. 25 MR. HILLIARD: Yeah. And they're for-profit; we're 2-8-10 91 1 not-for-profit, basically. And when you look at that, and -- 2 that restraint -- and, certainly, we work together, but we do 3 not work together in terms of reciprocal-type agreements. 4 The only people I can do a reciprocal agreement with is a not 5 -- not-for-profit. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- why are y'all 7 not-for-profit? I mean, is it -- are those hospitals -- 8 MR. HILLIARD: Because University's not-for-profit, 9 and they own AirLIFE. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess that's the answer. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It seems that our function here 13 today is, if for no other reason, to provide information and 14 education to those present, and hopefully through the media 15 that's present here today, to all the citizens of this area 16 so that they know that we, in fact, have two services; that 17 there is not a reciprocity agreement or other collaboration 18 that membership in one provides benefits into the other, or 19 vice-versa. And that if they truly desire coverage, they 20 need to make sure that -- that they have the coverage in 21 place from both providers in order to avoid the possibility 22 that that -- they might be facing one of those great big 23 bills in the event they get transported by air ambulance. Is 24 that pretty much the bottom line? 25 MR. HILLIARD: That pretty much summarized, I 2-8-10 92 1 believe, the discussion this morning. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. McCord? 3 MS. McCORD: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I noticed you filed a participation 5 agreement. You obviously had the opportunity to -- to make 6 some inquiries a while ago. Is there anything additional 7 you'd like to say? 8 MS. McCORD: Absolutely. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Please come forward and tell 10 us what's on your mind. 11 MS. McCORD: Thank you very much. I did have a few 12 things -- my name's Heidi McCord -- to pass out. I 13 apologize, I don't have an extra one for the clerk, but I'll 14 be glad to give one out. If I may? This front picture on 15 the very front is the picture of my car in a wreck on 16 December 30th on Lower Turtle Creek and Highway 16. I was 17 attempting to turn left on Lower Turtle Creek and was 18 rear-ended and pushed into oncoming traffic, where I -- my 19 passenger side was T-boned by the next picture that you will 20 see behind that, by this Dodge Durango. The passengers in 21 the Dodge Durango, one man in the back did die. His wife was 22 also an airlift patient. At the time of the accident -- we 23 live right there on the corner -- my husband heard the 24 accident from inside the house. And a passerby witnessed it, 25 came up and said, "Can I help you?" And I said, "Call my 2-8-10 93 1 husband." I was still within my wits or whereabouts to give 2 them his phone number and say, "Please call him." So, my 3 husband was out the gate and at the scene within less than 4 probably a minute and a half. 5 At that time, he was with me, and very quickly EMS 6 showed up there at the scene, and a woman stayed with me the 7 entire time. And she said very shortly after that, "We 8 cannot get you out of your car at the moment. There's a man 9 who's not responding. We will be with you as soon as we 10 can." But she stayed with me. And she very quickly said, 11 "You will be transported to University Hospital." And I 12 said, "I am an Air Evac member. I will not travel on 13 anything but Air Evac." At the time, I did not know that 14 there are two companies servicing. She said, "AirLIFE and 15 Air Evac are here." And I said, "I am only going on Air 16 Evac. I will wait, whatever it takes." So, eventually I'm 17 extracted. I get out on the highway, go from an ambulance to 18 the taking-off point, which is a church just up on the road 19 on Highway 16. I'm laying down. I'm still yelling and 20 hollering and screaming. I'm madder than you-know-what, and 21 I know what's going on. But I'm laying down. 22 As I'm getting into the helicopter, I'm thinking to 23 myself, "Praise God, I had the insurance. I don't have to 24 worry about this." And what do I find out when I see 25 Wednesday's newspaper? That there is AirLIFE in town. And 2-8-10 94 1 on the very back page, you'll see my bill for $16,000 for a 2 16-minute ride to San Antonio. That's basically $1,000 a 3 minute. I thank you for your services. It saved possibly 4 more trauma. However, I feel that had Ms. McCord -- I -- 5 been told, "Ms. McCord, Air Evac already took off with that 6 other lady and you're going to have to fly AirLIFE," I would 7 have said, "Take me in the ambulance and drive me to San 8 Antonio, 'cause I am not paying that bill." 9 So, my other point is this. Mr. Maloney has told 10 me that this Mrs. Hurley was extracted from her vehicle 11 first. Air Evac was there first, so they got her out first. 12 I don't know what I had to do to get to the EMS's attention 13 that I was an Air Evac member. And I know for a fact that 14 both helicopters were sitting there on the ground waiting, 15 because they were both there. And I just feel that I -- and 16 my husband and many witnesses heard me say that. And I just 17 feel that I don't know what I had to do to prove -- to get me 18 on the right helicopter, and I did not get on that right 19 helicopter. And instead of being home and rejoicing in my 20 wonderful recovery with spinal fractures, blood in the lungs, 21 stitches, 40 days later I'm here and I'm having to deal with 22 this, instead of just the stuff I got to deal with, you know, 23 insurance and everything, and another bill, when I really 24 thought for once in my life, I was covered for something. 25 And that's all I got to say. But I just feel like 2-8-10 95 1 EMS is not -- the point you guys are making, this membership 2 that this -- it isn't that. It's what membership you have. 3 Yeah, we all better buy them both. But to know which 4 helicopter's coming to get you, you are not guaranteed of any 5 of it. And that's the bottom line, and that's what needs to 6 get addressed here, is if you've got a membership and you 7 make your voice heard, if they're en route or they're 8 available, you should be getting picked up by that one. But 9 I don't know -- none of us are guaranteed which one's coming. 10 And, you know, if I had known, I'd have had them both. 11 That's all I have to say, and I thank you for your time. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. McCord. Any -- any 13 questions for Ms. McCord by any member of the Court? 14 MR. BEHRENS: I don't have any questions; I'd just 15 like to comment when she gets through, 'cause I'm an Air Evac 16 member. 17 MS. McCORD: There is also one thing -- I almost 18 feel like I would like proof, and I don't know where it can 19 come from, of when each helicopter was dispatched, when each 20 helicopter landed, and when each one took off. Because the 21 story that I'm getting is, "Mrs. McCord, you're going to pay 22 that, because Air Evac was here first and she was out first." 23 I don't believe it for a minute. They were both sitting 24 there letting the fuel dissipate into the atmosphere, waiting 25 for us to get out of our cars. And I feel like nobody did 2-8-10 96 1 their job with EMS, saying, "This lady should be in that 2 helicopter." And I don't know how I can get those records. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think there are 4 probably dispatch records that are available, both from 5 the -- from the Emergency Medical Services, the law 6 enforcement and so forth. 7 MS. McCORD: I'm sure. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: As well as through the medical 9 field. 10 MS. McCORD: When they take off, they have to say 11 what time they're leaving the area. And I have tried to call 12 your representative twice for billing, and I've not gotten a 13 return phone call yet, so I know you can handle that one. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. McCord. 15 MS. McCORD: Thank you, sir. 16 MR. MALONEY: Real briefly on that, we will meet 17 that for Ms. McCord. So -- we have those records; they are 18 available, so they're very easy to get from our dispatch 19 agency, and -- or both agencies here. We can have them get 20 both those. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You had a comment for the -- 22 MR. BEHRENS: Gentlemen, my name's Ralph Behrens. 23 I came down on another matter that y'all wanted me to report 24 to you and talk about later, but I just heard the 25 conversation going on. I am an Air Evac member. I had no 2-8-10 97 1 idea there were two agencies here in town, so this is a 2 surprise to me. That's certainly going to make me think 3 before I decide to renew my membership. There's something 4 else I think the County ought to consider to some extent in 5 reference to this, is if you're going to decide to spend 6 county money to get memberships, some people are insured by 7 their own insurance, number one. Like, I'm on Medicaid, so 8 Medicaid covers a certain part of the bill. If I have a 9 supplemental policy, the supplemental policy covers the other 10 20 percent, or may cover part of this. So, I think the 11 County needs to think about that before they spend money on 12 it. Or there's some of our people who are covered that we 13 don't have to cover anyway. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County isn't spending any 15 money. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: County's not funding this. This is 17 a service to our employees, and they are voluntarily 18 subscribing or not subscribing as they choose. 19 MR. BEHRENS: That's just another thing I think we 20 need to think about. And I'm certainly surprised and glad to 21 know that somebody's going to -- letting us know there are 22 two companies in town that we can compare. Thank you. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments with regard to 24 this subject? Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eva? 2-8-10 98 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde? 2 MS. HYDE: I just would like some clarification 3 from the Court. What are we going to do now? Do we go ahead 4 and offer -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not posted that way. 6 MS. HYDE: Oh, man. Ilse said she thought it was 7 open. It said "any other interested parties." 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: "Take appropriate action." 9 MS. BAILEY: You can take appropriate action 10 regarding the services. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think with this information, we 12 need to let specifically our employees know that if they want 13 full coverage, they essentially have to subscribe to both 14 services, give them the information as to both. And -- and 15 then let's give them an additional time frame in which to 16 make that decision and go forward accordingly. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you going to do it through 18 a payroll deduction like we did AirLIFE, same way? We sign 19 up the same as we did AirLIFE? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: If we do it for one, obviously, we 21 can do it for the other, it would seem. Because that's the 22 only way you're going to get the benefit of the -- of the 23 break rate on the other service -- on each of the services. 24 MS. BAILEY: I think it would be a good idea for 25 the Court to pass an order at this point amending its 2-8-10 99 1 previous order regarding the AirLIFE service to include Air 2 Evac, so that Eva can make that offer to the employees for 3 Air Evac services as well. 'Cause in the last one, you just 4 said allow them to -- to sign up for AirLIFE. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry. I wasn't clear, I'm sorry. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good point. Good point. Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we -- so, I mean, I don't -- 9 through all this this morning, do we have enough information 10 about what Air Evac -- they can do it the same way? 11 MR. EULER: I was going to bring it to y'all's 12 attention, we do have a payroll deduct program as well, so we 13 can offer that. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever the -- it occurs to me that 15 whatever accommodation which we offered to AirLIFE in the 16 earlier order, we should offer that same accommodation to Air 17 Evac. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If our employees so chose on a 20 voluntary basis, the same as with AirLIFE. And that -- 21 MS. BAILEY: That was -- yeah. That was the basis 22 of my point. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And an order to that effect offering 24 those same accommodations to both of the services would be an 25 appropriate amendment, in your way of thinking? 2-8-10 100 1 MS. BAILEY: Yes, and direction to Eva to send out 2 an informational item to the employees so they know why we're 3 doing that and what it entails. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in that context, then, 5 I think it's important that we let our employee group know 6 for certain that just the sheer employee membership only 7 covers that employee while that individual is on Kerr County 8 business. It does not take care of spouse or family. And if 9 they want to address those needs, they need to do it in a 10 different fashion. 11 MS. HYDE: What I'll do, Commissioner, is I will 12 put in the $10 is only if you're on duty, but also the 13 different splits, and then if we have the -- I'll talk to you 14 before you leave to make sure. 15 MR. EULER: Yes, ma'am. 16 MS. HYDE: Perhaps it's a $10 or $15 decrease if we 17 have 75 people or 100 people instead of the 50, or the 10. 18 So, just to make sure I've got my facts and figures together, 19 and then I'll put them both, the AirLIFE information and the 20 Air Evac information in there, and then I'll ask elected and 21 appointed officials to insure that it's posted and gone over 22 with their employees. And they'll get the same 10 days that 23 we did for AirLIFE, so that we can -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's good. And 25 just one final footnote on the whole thing, and we need to 2-8-10 101 1 wrap it up. It's -- I'm following up on the Judge -- what 2 the Judge said. It's really important for the media to let 3 the people in Kerr County know what this is all about, and 4 that while they think they may be covered, they may be only 5 half covered, and that they need to address that so that they 6 don't get caught in the same situation Ms. McCord found 7 herself. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 9 offer the same service or payroll deduction through Air Evac, 10 and authorize Ms. Hyde, through Human Resources Department, 11 to visit with Air Evac to get the information and communicate 12 that to the employees. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a new court order, 14 or you're amending the old one? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Amending the old one, I guess. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 18 indicated to amend the prior court order. Now, question or 19 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 20 signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's take 25 about a 15-, 20-minute recess. 2-8-10 102 1 (Recess taken from to 11:05 a.m. to 11:25 a.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody back on the ground 4 from the helicopter flight? Let's come back to order, and go 5 to our 10:15 item, which we're just a little bit past. Item 6 12, an undate on the Friday morning jail docket from 7 Mr. Ralph Behrens. Mr. Behrens? 8 MR. BEHRENS: Morning, sir. Morning, gentlemen. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Morning. 10 MR. BEHRENS: First thing I need to do is make a 11 correction. I was corrected by Rosa Lavender, and I 12 appreciate the correction. It's the courtroom in the Law 13 Enforcement Center; it's not the J.P. 2 jail docket. I 14 apologize. Just learning my own nomenclature. This was done 15 rather hastily this morning, and I reviewed it. There's 16 probably a couple of typos in it, and I was working on stuff 17 that I had. And I was recently hired to take over for David 18 Cavazos out at the jail, and Bruce Curry asked me -- or told 19 me that y'all were going to be meeting at 10:15 this morning 20 and wanted a report from me. That's my written report. If 21 you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer all of your 22 questions. If the bottom-line question to me is, "Is it 23 doing us any good or not doing us any good?" my feeling is 24 it's doing us a lot of good. But, of course, that's y'all's 25 decision, what y'all want to decide on. 2-8-10 103 1 I know that at least before I actually started 2 about two weeks ago, I spent about 35 years as a defense 3 attorney, so it's kind of a turnaround and taking me a little 4 bit to try and get used to working this side of the docket. 5 Although I'm not really trying any cases; basically, I'm just 6 working the docket for pleas. There's a lot of work 7 involved. And I didn't realize -- I knew there was some, 8 'cause I talked with David before I took the job. I spend a 9 lot of my time on the computer, spend a lot of time -- first 10 of all, my day begins usually about 7 o'clock in the morning 11 when I get three reports from the jail. I get the arrests 12 for the day before, I get the bookings, and then I get the 13 releases. The first thing I do is I look at the bookings and 14 try to determine what felonies we have, because we only deal 15 with felonies. And then once I determine if these cases are 16 felonies -- and sometimes you can't tell. I've got to get 17 out the statute and look at it, because sometimes you don't 18 know how much -- how much drugs someone had to determine 19 whether it's a felony or misdemeanor, and then some theft 20 cases, you have to go to different amounts. 21 So, I first have to determine if it's a felony. If 22 I determine it's -- if it's a felony, then what I have to do 23 is go back to the information from the jail, the people that 24 are in the jail, because it will tell me the date of the 25 offense. The date of the offense, if it's an odd-numbered 2-8-10 104 1 date, I know it's going to be in the 198th District Court. 2 If it's an even-numbered date, I know it's going to be in the 3 216th District Court. So, then I prepare in my own mind, on 4 my computer, what I think is the 198th docket and a 216th 5 possible docket to handle the defendants. Sometimes they 6 have to be switched back, because a person may be arrested on 7 a day that's in the 198th District Court, but maybe for a 8 violation that was in the 216th. So, sometimes they need to 9 transfer cases back so that each court can handle them. 10 The next thing I do after that is -- is I usually 11 go into what I can get from my home computer from the County 12 Clerk to determine what we've got in our records in Kerr 13 County, what their past has been like, so I get some idea of 14 that, and also maybe what their prior defense attorneys were, 15 so maybe I'll know who to contact. The next thing that I do 16 is, once I do that, I determine what court I want to put it 17 in. Then before I put it on my sheet that I'm working with, 18 I'm going to go to releases. And I'm going to go to releases 19 because if any of those people have been released, I don't 20 have to deal with them, because they're not in jail. By the 21 same token, the releases will also tell me, if I'm working 22 anybody else on my other dockets and they get released, I no 23 longer have to deal with them. Sometimes we have some that 24 get out on bond, and they come to court at the next session, 25 'cause they're scheduled. Sometimes we work out pleas with 2-8-10 105 1 those people. 2 Once I get all of that information, then the next 3 thing I try to do is get the discovery. If they're arrested 4 by K.P.D., I have to go to K.P.D. to try to get an offense 5 report. If they're arrested by Kerr County Sheriff's Office, 6 I have to try to get an offense report from them. And then 7 the next thing I need to do, which I'm, you know, learning 8 how to do -- I don't do it; the Sheriff does it for me, but I 9 took a class on it last week -- is I have to get criminal 10 history. Now, then, I have to realize all the criminal 11 history is not to be disseminated, but only to the defense 12 attorney. What I try to do during the week is try to gather 13 all this information, try to get it out to the defense 14 attorneys, and if I can make an offer, make him an offer so 15 that when they come to court on Friday, that we can either 16 work out a plea or set a plea for the next week. 17 If they come to court on a Friday, we have two 18 sets -- really, they're set in three different manners. One, 19 they're set for a plea. If they're set for a plea, then the 20 information is given to Jane at the 216th and Theresa at the 21 198th, and they prepare the plea papers, and then their 22 attorney shows up and we do the plea before Judge Sherrill. 23 The other one may be violations of probation, and we may have 24 a plea worked out, may not. The other one is what's called a 25 status hearing. Probably about a -- about 60 percent, or 2-8-10 106 1 two-thirds of the docket is what's called status hearing, 2 which means that hopefully they've got an attorney appointed, 3 and that attorney will come to court on that date and we can 4 sit down and visit about what we want to do or what we don't 5 want to do, and then we just work them from there each week 6 to each week. 7 Some of them -- some of them, in particular -- and 8 the 216th is a little bit different, because Lucy Wilke, 9 who's the D.A. there, has some special preferences. If 10 they're drug-free zone cases or other types of cases, she'll 11 tell me not to handle them and not to put them on the jail 12 docket over there, because she wants to handle them 13 personally. As far as the 198th is concerned, I met with 14 Amos Barton this last week, and they're going to get me some 15 standard offers that they make, and I'm going to be working 16 some of their people. I've heard that. And, again, I'm 17 brand new, but I've heard that some people are wondering why 18 this docket hasn't taken more of the 198th cases, 'cause it's 19 apparently taking almost all 216th cases. My understanding 20 from Amos was that when this started back in April of '09, 21 that the 216th had a real backlog of drug cases, so we had a 22 -- they had a lot of their cases to handle. 23 And also, the 216th has got two large counties. 24 Besides Kerr County, they've got Gillespie, and then they've 25 got Kendall, so they usually have a lot more people. If 2-8-10 107 1 those people get in our jail on charges, and they're not 2 being held up there, they're in our jail. Other than that, I 3 don't know what to tell you, except to say I think it's 4 beneficial. I think you save a lot from the time they're in 5 jail and you don't have to deal with that. You don't have to 6 pay for their cost of jail. The other thing I was thinking 7 about was -- is you're saving a lot in appointed attorney's 8 fees, because -- just thinking that normally from 30 to 60 9 days in jail. If -- and I was one of those attorneys. To 10 get appointed to represent someone, I only have to go to 11 court one time or look at one group of discovery. And if we 12 can work out a plea -- and you can't always do that, but if 13 we can, then you're saving me having to work more, of the 14 other attorney having to work on that for the next 60 days. 15 So, I would say for each one that's pled out, you're probably 16 saving another $200 in appointed attorney's fees. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, Ralph? 18 MR. BEHRENS: Yes? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for coming over 20 today. First of all, I think that you probably need to pay 21 us for this education that you're getting. Why are you 22 laughing? 23 MR. BEHRENS: It is -- it's an education. I just 24 don't want to pay you, I'm sorry. I don't have the money. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Hey, an honest 2-8-10 108 1 lawyer. But, you know, a couple of things. First of all, 2 the way this thing started was, Rusty starts whining a couple 3 of years ago about the jail being full, and it was. I mean, 4 it was full. We were reaching max. We're just -- the State 5 starts screaming at you, and so we -- this group -- this 6 Commissioners Court rounded up all the players, we think, and 7 came into this room at 7 a.m. one morning and had a 8 discussion about this -- you know, what can we do to -- to 9 keep from building a new jail? And one of the -- one of the 10 recommendations was to, well, hire a judge, a visiting-type 11 judge, and hire a prosecutor and, you know, and not empty the 12 thing out, but get those moved out that can be moved out. 13 And we did exactly that. So, that brings me to a question, 14 and you touched on it briefly, but I -- I'm a little bit 15 unclear how it works. 16 MR. BEHRENS: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically, you handle 216th 18 as well as 198th. 19 MR. BEHRENS: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But almost every -- I go out 21 there every once in a while on Friday mornings. I've seen 22 you out there as a defense attorney. I have -- I don't think 23 I've ever seen the 198th people out there. I always see 24 everything that's -- almost everything that has been handled 25 through there is 216th. How do they do that? And 198th has 2-8-10 109 1 less number of people than the 216th does, and how does that 2 work? 3 MR. BEHRENS: Well, I don't know the answer to it. 4 My guess is, from having been a defense attorney before I 5 started this, is -- is that it's up to the individual 6 prosecutor in those courts to make offers. And some of the 7 offers out of the 198th seem to be a little bit less to 8 defense attorneys than the offers coming out of the 216th, 9 but I don't know the reason for that. And that's the only 10 thing I know. I know that they have pled some over there. I 11 know that when I was a defense attorney, I think the only 12 ones I did handle were the 216th. I can also report to the 13 Court that this week, there were two cases that were there 14 that were on status hearings for the very first time, and 15 their lawyers came in and we got them out that day. I called 16 Jane and we worked out an agreement, and we got Jane to type 17 up the judgment, and we went over and got it. So -- so, we 18 got two people out that had probably only been in jail about 19 three or four days; we got them out. I don't know the answer 20 to that. I really don't. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you touched on 22 Lucy's issues of what needs to be handled through you and 23 what needs to be kicked over to her. 24 MR. BEHRENS: Correct. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that real clear of who 2-8-10 110 1 goes to her and who doesn't? 2 MR. BEHRENS: It is. She sent me an e-mail on it. 3 I didn't bring it with me, but all I remember was drug-free 4 zones and some other cases -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 MR. BEHRENS: -- that she was concerned about. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except, like, there's always 8 been some kind of argument about that issue. And it seemed 9 like to me if it's clear, it's clear. 10 MR. BEHRENS: I can bring you the e-mail, and it 11 tells me exactly, but I've -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, thank you. 13 MR. BEHRENS: -- just got kind of gotten it for 14 right now. Since I'm brand new, since I work for both of 15 them, whatever they want to do, that's what I do. If they 16 have some cases that they want to work on in particular -- 17 and I think the reason they want to work them in particular 18 is because these are more dangerous and important cases, and 19 they want to get more punishment, don't want to give them a 20 sweet deal for free. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. That's all I wanted 22 to ask him. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate that. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. Mr. Behrens, 25 how quickly are you able to identify companion cases of the 2-8-10 111 1 individuals -- you know, you got the general assignment of 2 odd days, even days of the offense. But there's also a rule 3 that if they're companion existing cases, then you package 4 all those up with the same defendant in the same court. How 5 quickly can you get that information in order to make that 6 happen so that you know this one definitely is in the 198th 7 or the 216th? 8 MR. BEHRENS: It's going to depend -- right now, 9 from what I can tell, being there only about two weeks, I'm 10 going to say probably about 80 percent of them I can figure 11 right off the bat, because when they're arrested, in jail, 12 the report that I get on the Odyssey says V.O.P., violation 13 of probation. It will have a court number, the 216th or the 14 198th, so I know that immediately. Now, there are a few of 15 them that I get that I don't know, and when I go back and 16 look at the history in the clerk's office, I can see they've 17 been handled before in other courts. So then I can ask the 18 question. And then the last way I may find out is when I get 19 the criminal history from the Sheriff's Office. So, I would 20 say probably about 80 percent of them I can figure out right 21 away. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. BEHRENS: I don't know if that's really a big 24 problem. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you not have access to the 2-8-10 112 1 pending dockets to be able to run the name of the defendant, 2 for example, and to be able to identify any existing -- 3 MR. BEHRENS: That's probably -- I never thought 4 about that. I never thought about that, and I'm brand new. 5 I don't know why I couldn't go and run those right quick and 6 check on them. I just never thought about it till this 7 point, and David hadn't mentioned it to me. And so -- and 8 usually, a lot of times what will happen is also, like, if I 9 put them in the 216th and they belong in the 198th, or 10 vice-versa, I'm usually sending a copy of my proposed docket 11 over to Kay on Monday or Tuesday, or Tuesday afternoon, and 12 she looks at it, and she may send me back an e-mail saying, 13 "This one's being transferred over here,' 'cause they're 14 already running them over there. But it's just -- you just 15 kind of have to work through it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of like the check and 17 balance. 18 MR. BEHRENS: Right. Right. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With regard to -- you 20 mentioned the 198th, that they are in the process -- or have 21 provided you with guidelines on -- on their plea offers? 22 MR. BEHRENS: I have some guidelines that were left 23 to me by David Cavazos. I haven't really looked at them, 24 because they're kind of like henscratch, and I don't want to 25 go by henscratch, more or less. So, I've talked with Brad 2-8-10 113 1 McCullouch, and I think I've e-mailed Theresa and asked them 2 just to send me -- and, obviously, it would be confidential 3 from everybody as to what their standard offers may be in 4 certain areas. And -- and as far as the 216th is concerned, 5 I work with Lucy on those. So, I have some general ideas 6 myself, but if I have any doubts, I check them with her 7 first. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: What percentage of -- and this, at 9 this time, may not be a fair question to you, based upon your 10 level of experience in the courtroom, but do you have just 11 a -- just a ballpark grasp of what percentage are peeled off 12 because of the limitations placed on you by the 216th D.A.'s 13 office, that they want to handle those in-house, and what 14 percentage of cases -- 15 MR. BEHRENS: I can't put any -- I can't even put a 16 thought to it, 'cause I'm just so new. I don't know. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. BEHRENS: I don't know. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Ralph? Thank you. 20 We appreciate you being here and giving us that report, and 21 we look forward to seeing how this system works on a 22 go-forward basis. What I am hearing is that there's going to 23 be more activity with regards to 198th cases, is exactly what 24 I'm getting. 25 MR. BEHRENS: That's what I've been told by Amos 2-8-10 114 1 also. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MR. BEHRENS: Thank you, gentlemen. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ralph, two things. The -- 5 as everybody knows, and I'm going to repeat this every chance 6 I can get, is that the reason that we're doing this is to 7 avoid spending $10 million of taxpayers' money building a new 8 jail. We can reduce the numbers in there where we don't -- 9 we're not overloaded; we don't have to spend the taxpayers' 10 money. And court decorum in here, you're not supposed to 11 wear a hat, but I'm asking you, would you put your hat on for 12 us, please? Thank you so much. 13 MR. BEHRENS: Thank you, gentlemen. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is it "wabbit" season? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's wabbit season. 16 MR. BEHRENS: I'm the number-one member and the 17 only member of the Gentlemen's Red Hat Society. (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Piece of work. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That was enlightening in a 21 lot of respects. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a great report. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 14, a timed 10:25 24 item. If we're dealing in mountain time, we're pretty close. 25 Request an audit from the Hill Country District Junior 2-8-10 115 1 Livestock Show for '08-'09 and '09-'10 for grant purposes. 2 Commissioner Baldwin? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. I had 4 a long telephone visit with Mr. Henderson last week, and he 5 agreed to come, and he's here with -- with his sidekick. And 6 what we had talked about was the -- the ability of the 7 Commissioners Court going out and getting -- seeking grants 8 to build or rebuild, or whatever we do out at that Ag Barn. 9 And, as you can see on the agenda today, there are two -- two 10 items that Ms. Lavender has on there to go to two different 11 foundations and ask them for grants to do exactly what we're 12 talking about. So, in my mind, I'm thinking -- I don't think 13 that you would go to the Peterson Foundation or the -- my 14 dear friends, the Turners in Houston, and ask them for money 15 without information; i.e., how many animals are you dealing 16 with? How much money are you dealing with? You know, how 17 many people come through there? Those things, you know. So, 18 the stock show people are the only people that have that. 19 And, let's see. Do we -- did we actually use the word 20 "audit"? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: You did, yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, in our conversations 23 -- you know, and I don't know. I've never done that. I 24 don't know if you go to them and you have -- just have a 25 clean piece paper with a bunch of numbers on it. I have no 2-8-10 116 1 idea if that's sufficient to ask them for money, or do you 2 need a full-blown grant -- I mean a full-blown audit? I have 3 no idea. But I just wanted to get the ball rolling and ask 4 Rusty to come and be prepared to give us whatever he's got so 5 that we can get this process started. So, I present it to 6 you, the honorable Rusty Henderson. 7 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Baldwin. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly, "mister." Listen to 9 this. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure this wasn't preplanned, this 11 exchange? 12 MR. HENDERSON: No. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds that way. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want me to take them and 15 pass them around? 16 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, please, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We want one too, Buster. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm trying to get there. 19 MR. HENDERSON: What you'd asked for the other day, 20 Commissioner Baldwin, as you can see on that sheet, this is 21 2004 through 2010. We've got a total number of entries, 22 total number of exhibitors, less the number of county 23 exhibitors. And your total number of out-of-county 24 exhibitors on that average comes to about 848, or about 850 25 exhibitors from out of county. And we assume that they're 2-8-10 117 1 going to bring at least one parent with them, so there's 2 right around 1,700 people, and the estimated cost per day of 3 attending our show, hotels, meals, incidentals, we figure 4 $75. Estimated revenue is $127,200. The economic impact 5 multiplier's 3.6 percent. That's based on the Dean Runyon 6 Associates, the economic impact of travel on Texas, and that 7 comes out to the economic impact on Kerrville is $457,920 a 8 day that that stock show brings in. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A day? 10 MR. HENDERSON: A day. So -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many days are we 12 talking about? 13 MR. HENDERSON: Tuesday through Saturday. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that five days? 15 MR. HENDERSON: Five days, yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a lot of money. 17 MR. HENDERSON: So, as you can see, it's been 18 referred to before, that goat barn brings in quite a bit of 19 money for the Kerrville area. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest that your per diem 21 cost is probably very light. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Very conservative. That's a Spartan 24 existence. That means they bring two or three sack lunches 25 with them when they show up with them here, and -- 2-8-10 118 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hotel room. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I mean, it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course, that's per person. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 5 MR. HENDERSON: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you got a family of three, 7 times three, you can buy motels and eat for that, I think. 8 MR. HENDERSON: But I also have -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least where we stay, you 10 can. 11 MR. HENDERSON: I also have here a financial 12 statement and our tax return and our budget for this past 13 year. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's important, 15 Rusty. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's important. 18 Important for the Court to know, 'cause we are dealing in -- 19 as you know, we're dealing with taxpayer-supported 20 facilities, money and services, and so that's important. 21 Appreciate you doing that. 22 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to know whether or 24 not this is sufficient for Rosa's purposes, however. 25 MS. LAVENDER: Well, I don't have any idea, 'cause 2-8-10 119 1 I haven't looked at it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's real basic. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Mr. Henderson will give 5 you one. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're -- Ms. Goldman, you had -- 7 you had some comments? 8 MS. GOLDMAN: Well, I wanted to answer 9 Mr. Baldwin's -- Commissioner Baldwin's question. You had 10 asked about the Peterson Foundation. We currently receive a 11 grant from them, as well as the Turner Foundation, and they 12 accept our unaudited financial statements. So, as far as the 13 stock show and our information flowing into whatever you do, 14 this is stuff that Peterson and Turner currently sees. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They accept this piece of 16 paper? 17 MS. GOLDMAN: Well, Rusty also has a packet, our 18 financial information, yes. That's information that Peterson 19 Foundation has already received for this year that they use 20 to award the grant for the 2010 show, so I think it's at 21 least a good starting point as far as the association's 22 information. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you -- if you can put 24 these two things together, would you call that an audit? 25 MS. GOLDMAN: No, an audit is something that you 2-8-10 120 1 would hire an independent accounting firm to come in, much 2 like the County has an audit where you have people who come 3 in and sample your financial information, test transactions. 4 We have made a change to our bylaws, and we will have an 5 audit for 2010. We've never had one, because the 6 organizations that we apply for grants to have always been 7 satisfied with the financial statements that we have. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 9 MS. GOLDMAN: So, as a nonprofit organization, 10 trying to be good stewards of our money, to keep as much 11 money going back to the children, we've used the compiled 12 financial statements, which is the term for financial 13 statements that have not been audited. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. You routinely provide 15 that to the County Auditor? Or will you routinely provide 16 that to the County Auditor? 17 MS. GOLDMAN: Are you asking us? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not saying anything. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just asking a question. 21 There we go, line of sight. 22 MS. GOLDMAN: To my knowledge, it's never been -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you routinely provide 24 that to the County Auditor? 25 MS. GOLDMAN: To my knowledge, it's never been 2-8-10 121 1 requested. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Consider this a request. 3 MS. GOLDMAN: I mean, that would be presented to 4 the board. I mean, Rusty, don't you feel like that's 5 reasonable? 6 MR. HENDERSON: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- just to follow up a 9 little bit, I think what the -- the Auditor has made us very 10 much aware that we need to keep very accurate records 11 everywhere, and -- and compile all kinds of information. And 12 since taxpayers fund the facility indirectly, help fund 13 the -- y'all's organization, plus y'all receive revenue out 14 there, that we really need to have a copy of it, just to keep 15 our -- our books in order. Isn't that right, Ms. Hargis? 16 MS. HARGIS: I would -- yes. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. It's not money we have 18 control over, but it's just a reporting thing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like volunteer fire 20 departments. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Volunteer fire departments do 22 it, ESD's do it. 23 MR. HENDERSON: I don't see a problem with that at 24 all. And, I mean, we'll bring it before the board, but -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2-8-10 122 1 JUDGE TINLEY: If they should not agree to that, 2 would you let us know? 3 MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. I don't think that'll be 4 a problem. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions from either -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None at all. 7 MS. HARGIS: Ms. Lavender and I just had a little 8 brief discussion, and probably we would need at least two 9 years. I know they've probably given us -- what did you give 10 us, just the current financials through -- through February? 11 MS. GOLDMAN: You have 2000 -- well, that's 12 actually our March -- we are at fiscal year end March 31st, 13 so we have another year end that is fast approaching. So, 14 would you like '08 and '09, or do you want us to get you 2010 15 as soon as it's complete? I mean, '08-'09 are there. I 16 mean, you have '09. 17 MS. HARGIS: I'd just like to just see the current 18 books as of, say, February -- January 31, or February -- 19 February 28th. 20 MS. GOLDMAN: We're working on those. They have an 21 executive board meeting Wednesday evening, so we can deliver 22 a copy of the financial statements through January 31st. 23 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So, what I have here is really 24 last year? 25 MS. GOLDMAN: Yes. 2-8-10 123 1 JUDGE TINLEY: They're just about at the end of 2 another fiscal year, though, in another couple of months. 3 So -- 4 MS. HARGIS: Well, but I think February the 28th, 5 March the 1st is -- February 28th is the end of your year, 6 isn't it? Or is it March? 7 MS. GOLDMAN: March 31st. 8 MS. HARGIS: Till February 28th, give us an idea, 9 'cause we're going out for these grants; we need that 10 information now. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Whatever they've got up to 12 date, okay. Anything else? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Rusty, thank you. 14 MR. HENDERSON: Thank y'all. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here. Sorry 17 for the delay. Y'all got a helicopter ride in the meantime, 18 though, didn't you? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: About lunchtime, too. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You may get a bill, unfortunately. 21 But -- 22 MR. HENDERSON: Thank y'all. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 15; to consider, 24 discuss, and approve resolution for the submission of the 25 General Victim Assistance Direct Services program grant 2-8-10 124 1 proposed for 2010-11 to the Office of the Governor, Criminal 2 Justice Division, purpose of the grant being to fund the Kerr 3 County Crime Victims Coordinator program for another year. 4 We got to let you earn your way here. 5 MS. LAVENDER: Can I make a comment? This would be 6 the sixth year to ask for funding for this. Last week the 7 governor issued a deal, the mandate that all of the state 8 agencies cut down 5 percent on their budgets for the new 9 fiscal year, but victims services was excepted out of that 10 order, and so I'm not real concerned that the money is not 11 going to be there. It just depends on our grant writing 12 ability to be able to convince them to fund it for a sixth 13 year. When you get to the sixth year, you get into one of 14 those "Are they going to continue to fund it?" questions. 15 And there are a few grants in AACOG region that have been 16 funded longer than five years. But, you know, that's also a 17 reality that we need to be prepared for. So, we'll do our 18 best. We -- I believe we can probably get it for another 19 year. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the grant 21 application and the accompanying resolution. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2-8-10 125 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We will move 6 to Item 16; to consider, discuss, and approve resolution for 7 the submission of the grant proposal to the Sterling-Turner 8 Foundation in Houston, purpose of the grant being to fund 9 renovations to the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 10 Ms. Lavender? 11 MS. LAVENDER: Well, a year ago we came to you with 12 a proposal to send a grant application to the Meadows 13 Foundation in Dallas, and so a lot of background work on 14 submitting this one has already been done. Unfortunately, we 15 did not get the Meadows Foundation, but we're going to look 16 at them again also. Sterling-Turner is out of Houston. The 17 woman for whom the grant program is named after was married 18 to one of the original founders of Exxon -- Exxon Humble Oil 19 Company, and she has funded -- or through that foundation, in 20 her memory, has funded a considerable number of grants, and 21 several of them locally. Schreiner University has been a 22 recipient. The livestock association, the -- both the Hunt 23 and Ingram Volunteer Fire Departments, Young Life locally, 24 and Hill Country Youth Ranch have all received funds through 25 Sterling-Turner. And so we would propose to write a grant 2-8-10 126 1 application to them for a $250,000 matching grant, because we 2 do have 250,000 in our budget to match that amount. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the resolution says for 4 Phase I. Phase I was which part? 5 MS. LAVENDER: We probably need to take the term 6 "Phase I" out of there. The reason we used Phase I was 7 because that's what we had used with the Meadows one, and if 8 you want to delete that little part of it, we can do that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or put in Phase II. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just say renovation. I 11 don't think you need to identify -- 12 MS. LAVENDER: Take out the phase on it? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That would be my preference too, 14 that we not be specific. 15 MS. LAVENDER: I can get that back to you after 16 lunch. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. LAVENDER: We can do that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 20 MS. LAVENDER: Takes about two seconds to delete 21 it, reprint it. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: With the -- with the deletion of 23 "Phase I," do I hear a motion for approval of the resolution? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2-8-10 127 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 2 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We will move 8 to Item 17, to consider, discuss, and approve resolution for 9 the submission of a grant proposal through the Hal and 10 Charlie Peterson Foundation, purpose of the grant being to 11 fund renovations to the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 12 MS. LAVENDER: Again, the Hal and Charlie Peterson 13 Foundation is local. They're very community-oriented, very 14 youth-oriented. Although we know that there's limits to the 15 funding of that foundation, we're going to ask for $100,000 16 from them. Not sure what -- you know, whether they will be 17 able to fund that much, but we feel like that that would put 18 us a long way toward getting some of these renovations done, 19 and so we want to get that done this month also. All three 20 of these grants are going to be due before the 5th of March, 21 so I'm going to be doing a little grant writing here the next 22 few days. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, do we need to 24 put in an amount? 25 MS. LAVENDER: With the Peterson Foundation, for 2-8-10 128 1 them to send you the grant application now, all these have to 2 be e-filed by computer. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MS. LAVENDER: You have to tell them how much 5 you're asking for, yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was there a number in the 7 Turner? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: 250. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 250 matching. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Matching. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I remember. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five? 250 match, that's 13 what you're talking about? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we match -- we -- they 15 do 250, we match it with 250 to make five. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, is there a negative 17 going with a larger number in, really, both of them? 18 MS. LAVENDER: No, there's no negative to going 19 with them. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause, I mean, the projects -- 21 you know, if we're going to try to go really forward on 22 building that new barn, we're talking about a million dollars 23 we need. 24 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a renovation of another 2-8-10 129 1 500,000. I mean, just to go out with ballpark numbers, that 2 doesn't count. The other part of it is, you know, the 3 Sterling-Turner, the Cailloux, and the Peterson are our -- 4 our big three, local. And, you know, to me, we -- I don't 5 know how we coordinate, kind of -- there's one big project 6 out there that we're trying to get a lot of support for, and 7 the County has set aside a bunch of money for it as well. 8 MS. LAVENDER: Well, the other option that we have, 9 too, is, you know, if we can -- if we can prove that we can 10 get these amounts of grants, there are some local people -- 11 individuals who possibly might be interested in donating a 12 significant amount of money. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MS. LAVENDER: That would help us get on down the 15 road with this. But I think if you -- I think if you don't 16 put a number to them that's reasonable, I think they're going 17 to set them aside and say, "We can't afford that rate," you 18 know. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you've got to kind of 20 set your sights on what you think you might be able to get 21 from them, or what they might be able to fund. 22 MS. LAVENDER: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rather than trying to ask for 24 $2 million, when you know you're not going to get but 50,000. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Quantum leap. 2-8-10 130 1 MS. LAVENDER: That's a quantum leap. And maybe 2 that's the reason -- and Meadows encouraged us to -- to redo, 3 and with this, I think that's -- I think that piecemealing 4 it, you know, smaller amounts might get it further than 5 trying to go for the full amount at one time, is the point. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you put the full 7 amount. I'm just wondering -- I'm not sure where the 8 Peterson Foundation is on their commitment with the hospital, 9 which is kind of taking a large portion of theirs. 10 MS. LAVENDER: I know that they're limited. I just 11 wrote -- I wrote grants last year for them for Habitat and 12 also for Crimestoppers, and I know the philosophy behind it. 13 What I got at that point with them was that they are pretty 14 limited on the amount of money that they have currently for 15 grants. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- what -- I guess, what 17 happens if we get 250,000 -- or, you know, 200 from one and 18 100 from the other, whatever. That's not enough for us to 19 complete a big phase. 20 MS. LAVENDER: Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, already I think you're 22 going to have to prioritize what there is out there that has 23 to be done, based on the available funds that you have to do 24 it. But, I mean, except the problem is there's -- there are 25 three distinct -- four if you do the actual rodeo arena, but 2-8-10 131 1 there's the renovating the arena. There's building a new 2 show barn, which is tearing down the hog barn, all that 3 stuff. Then there's building a -- what do you call the other 4 facility? The event center? The event center. So, I mean, 5 you know, if we're going to set our priorities, I think, you 6 know, it makes sense to go for the show barn and the 7 renovations, or the first two, 'cause that's directly related 8 with the youth; that we'd, you know, make sure we're asking 9 for enough money to do that. I mean, I don't -- you know -- 10 MS. LAVENDER: I'll be glad to write it for 11 whatever y'all want me to write it for. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just kind of putting it out 13 there. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we have a couple of 15 other things that -- there are a couple more individuals 16 that -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we want to try to tap 19 their resources. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I thought we 21 were dealing with just the agriculture components now, not 22 the other multipurpose potential facilities. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's -- I think you 24 need to look at it. I think that the -- most of the 25 foundations have more of an annual-type process, I would 2-8-10 132 1 think, you know, because they're trying -- they budget as 2 well. And my thoughts are that, you know, we really -- the 3 time -- from a construction cost standpoint, the time to go 4 for most of it is right now. We're not going to get a better 5 deal on the -- the cost, so I think we need to break it up a 6 little bit, but I think we -- you know, we need to be asking 7 for some of these big people. I understand -- Bruce and I 8 have talked about, you know, going to people and meeting with 9 people and all that, but I think these foundations are going 10 to likely be a core component of a project out there, and I 11 think we need to make -- you know, make sure we ask for 12 enough to do what we're trying to get done. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if we ask 14 Sterling-Turner for half a million, could we match half a 15 million, to make it a million? Maybe we go -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ask Sterling-Turner 17 for a matching half a million. That gives us a lot of 18 leverage to go towards a couple of individuals and say, "Hey, 19 we need 100,000, and with 100,000 we can make this match. We 20 have a million dollars to build this facility. I -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're really asking for a 22 million, half of which we put up. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or -- or somehow -- I mean, I 24 think the -- the show barn, I don't know the exact numbers. 25 I mean, maybe we ought to look at -- 2-8-10 133 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 900-something, wasn't it? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, that's the indoor arena. 3 The show barn part was 3 million, plus. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But we know from -- we may 6 know, from just what we did on the new building, that that 7 cost can be half that, especially for a building that doesn't 8 have -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- all the components that -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that's right, 12 but you're still looking at a million and a half. So, I 13 think, you know, we need to come up with a -- in my mind, 14 a -- a dollar sum, which to me is probably close to 15 two million that we need. And if we can get more, great. We 16 can get -- build the other stuff, two million, figure out how 17 we're going to get to two million. And I think we need to 18 be -- you know, in reality, it's going to take some of our 19 local foundations giving more than $350,000 to get to 20 two million. So, I mean, I think, you know, half a million 21 for the Sterling-Turner, and maybe 250 for the Peterson. You 22 know, and maybe it can be over a two-year period with 23 Peterson Foundation, 'cause we're not going to get anything 24 built in a year -- or the whole thing. I mean, so a two-year 25 period, possibly. I mean, you know, it's -- 2-8-10 134 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't talk about the other 2 foundation, really, because it's not on the agenda. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 4 MS. LAVENDER: That's right. We haven't talked to 5 them. So, you want to go with 500 from Sterling-Turner? 6 And -- 500,000? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my thought. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine, I'll go along. 9 MS. LAVENDER: And 200 -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: And with the proviso that it's a 11 multi-year -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commitment. 13 MS. LAVENDER: I'm not sure they'll do it, but 14 we'll try that. Okay. And then what with Peterson? How 15 much? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 250. 17 MS. LAVENDER: 250, okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the one -- well, nevermind. 19 All right. 20 MS. LAVENDER: And then we'll investigate some more 21 and bring those back to you. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 MS. LAVENDER: To approve. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The resolutions before the Court 25 don't specify the amounts; they just merely specify who the 2-8-10 135 1 application's being made to. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. The only thing you'll 3 probably see with the resolution is get rid of Phase I. 4 That's already been deleted, or we're going to delete that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On both of them? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here's the other one. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: One of them's signed. The other is 9 pending a vote. 10 THE CLERK: We need a motion. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We need a motion first before we can 12 vote. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval of the 16 resolution requesting Sterling-Turner Foundation -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This one's the Hal and 18 Charlie. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The grant proposal be 20 submitted. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And approved. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. We've already taken 25 action on the Sterling -- 2-8-10 136 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did we do Sterling already? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, well, I'll rescind that. 4 We'll go forward with the same thing for Peterson. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 8 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 9 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 14 MS. LAVENDER: You have updated resolutions -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure do. 16 MS. LAVENDER: -- thanks to Jody, so we don't have 17 to worry about coming back after lunch. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure do. We've got them here. 19 MS. LAVENDER: Thanks, Jody. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That brings us to Item 18; 21 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on implementation 22 of the burn ban. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2-8-10 137 1 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 2 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Number 19; 7 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to confirm 8 nomination of Lieutenant Bill Hill as Kerr County AACOG 9 representative on the Criminal Justice Advisory Committee and 10 Lieutenant Jeffrey Wendling as his alternate. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 14 approval. Question or discussion? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. The 16 only thing that bothered me was Jeffrey being a city 17 employee. We can -- we can appoint city employees to things? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think this is really a 19 reappointment. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's a reappointment. 21 MS. BAILEY: He's a captain, isn't he? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: He's a captain. 23 MS. BAILEY: It says lieutenant. You might want to 24 fix that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's a captain, not a 2-8-10 138 1 lieutenant. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 4 THE CLERK: Yes. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And a second? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All in favor, signify by 8 raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 20 is 13 to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to reappoint 14 Bobbie Lesser and Patsy Lackey to AACOG Criminal Justice 15 Advisory Committee, Patsy Lackey as the committee member and 16 Bobby Lesser as the alternate. Actually, those are just 17 reversed from what they were this past year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval. Question or discussion? All favor of the motion, 22 signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-8-10 139 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 21 is 2 to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to authorize 3 request for bids or proposals to construct a new outdoor 4 rodeo arena at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 5 Commissioners Letz and Oehler. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce and I met with 4-H folks. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Horse club. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Horse club. And kind of a 9 drawing as to what they would like. And we, I think, both 10 concur as to it's reasonable and what they need, and that is 11 to take down the old facility -- well, build a new facility 12 over there where it's shown on our master plan, essentially, 13 slightly shifted. And the idea was really to try to get them 14 moving pretty quick. We have the funding for this, and next 15 step is to get some drawings, I guess, with Peter Lewis, see 16 if we can come up with some actual drawings and put it out 17 for proposal to get the turnkey construction, basically. We 18 talked to -- because I talked with them on the basis of doing 19 it through volunteers, all that, it's just -- it's going to 20 happen a lot quicker, be a lot more -- better if it's just 21 turned out to some contractors. And there's a -- primarily 22 local contractors, I suspect, will be interested in doing 23 this. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a number that are very 2-8-10 140 1 qualified for this type of work. Primarily, it's welding. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They gave us a plan. We went 3 with them last Friday and made some changes on it, just 4 slight changes about the design, and gave that to Peter Lewis 5 this morning. He said he would put it to scale. And meet 6 with him and do a little more specifying of what some of the 7 materials to be used and that sort of thing, just kind of so 8 he can finalize it and put it -- get it ready for bid. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Do you anticipate that 10 your bid would call for the demolition of the existing 11 facility as part and parcel of the construction of the new 12 facility? With even possibly an alternative of separate bids 13 for each from possible interested contractors, somewhat like 14 we did on the -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Windows. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, on the -- on the Sheriff's 17 Office annex, where, if a contractor's interested in either 18 phase or both phases, they can -- they can bid one or the 19 other or both? 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good idea. 21 We're going to -- I think that there's some things that we 22 need to salvage, like the bleachers. Jon looked at those, 23 and those are aluminum seats that we can take and rebuild, 24 or -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reuse. 2-8-10 141 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- reuse at the new place. 2 But I do agree that the demolition part of it, we need 3 somebody to make that thing disappear whenever we need. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and soon. I think it's a 5 good idea to put it in there, and I think we handle it kind 6 of like we did the site work. You know, see what they're 7 going to charge us to do it, and then we get the materials -- 8 salvage value of the materials, except what we exclude, and 9 then we consider if it makes more sense for us to do it 10 in-house or let the contractor do it. There is a fair amount 11 of value to a -- a contractor that's likely to bid on this to 12 some of that material over there. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm talking about. They 14 may give us a turnkey bid to do both. And, considering the 15 value of the material, -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not cost really anything. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- it just nets out that way. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a great idea. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about restroom 21 facilities? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not included. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not included this time. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we -- if -- what's your 25 thinking? We let them in the building? 2-8-10 142 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- the idea is that there 2 is -- where the 4-H maintenance shed is, there's a corner 3 left there to build restrooms, and there is -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We left that uncemented on 5 purpose. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is a spot right there, 7 and the position is going to be closer to that and moved up a 8 little bit, so it'll kind of be like an "L" to that building. 9 And the rest -- you can just use -- those restrooms will be 10 used for this facility, and also for -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 4-H. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 4-H people when they need 13 restrooms over there as well. So, restrooms are a different 14 bid. That will be coming along soon. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To do that. Tim may want to do 17 that in-house. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why he raised his hand. 19 MR. BOLLIER: I was just going to ask a question. 20 That also includes those outside bathrooms, right? To tear 21 down? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Once we get that other on the other 24 side? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 2-8-10 143 1 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whatever septic is there will 3 need to be abandoned. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Remediated, I think is the term. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mediated? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Remediated. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Forensic mediation? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Ms. Calcotte and others 9 were there. They were very happy. They're going to hold 10 Commissioners 1 and 4 accountable for the whole project. 11 Luckily, 2 and 3 got -- we eased out of that one. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She will. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not sure that was a -- 14 well, she did say that, but -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think she was kidding? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that they're going to 18 hold the whole Court accountable. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've known her a long time. 20 She doesn't joke about things like that. She doesn't think 21 it's funny. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We need a motion for approval of the 23 agenda item. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 2-8-10 144 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the agenda item. Further discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would include Commissioner 4 Oehler and myself to kind of coordinate this. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have a little input on the 9 plan. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 11 by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 22 is 16 to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the 17 contract with ImageTek, Incorporated for scanning and 18 indexing of records in the County Clerk's office in 19 accordance with the approved '09-'10 archival plan and 20 authorize the County Judge to sign the same. Ms. Pieper? 21 MS. PIEPER: Yes. Back when we were doing the 22 budget, the statute states that we have to do a written 23 archival plan every year with a public hearing, and therefore 24 I did that, and it was approved. And in that, we had 25 discussed having my documents scanned and indexed, and so I 2-8-10 145 1 went, I got two bids. And both companies that I went through 2 are with the state bidding, so I didn't have to go literally 3 out for bids. Anyway, I've got the cheapest price on here -- 4 let me see where I have it at. Anyway, we're going to pay it 5 out in three years. This year we have 80,000 budgeted for 6 it, and then the next two years, we'll be paying $67,445.35. 7 And this comes out of the Records Management, the dedicated 8 fund. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Has the County Attorney reviewed the 10 contract -- 11 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's before the Court today? 13 MS. PIEPER: Yes, she has reviewed it, and then I 14 have also talked with the Auditor as well. 15 MS. BAILEY: I made a couple of changes to it, and 16 the other party has -- has approved it, and they've been 17 incorporated. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did the Auditor say? 20 MS. HARGIS: The cash flow is sufficient to cover 21 those payments. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those are good words. Good 23 words. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2-8-10 146 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 3 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 8 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 4 of the agenda, 10 if we have nothing further on the main agenda. Payment of 11 the bills. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 15 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a -- I got a couple 17 of questions here, I think. Page 1. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Starting on Page 1? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Page 1? 20 MS. HARGIS: Page 1? You didn't get past Page 1? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we paying the bills? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 1, Commissioners Court, 24 the Roeder -- Gabriel Roeder Smith and Company, professional 25 services. What might that be? 2-8-10 147 1 MS. HARGIS: That's our actuarial that -- that's 2 doing the GASB-45 actuarial audit we're required to have as 3 part of our financial audit for this year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we do that annually? 5 MS. HARGIS: We have been working on that. This is 6 the first year that it's required. And hopefully it's an 7 every-three-year upgrade from now on, but it will have to be 8 part of our audit from now on. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MS. HARGIS: But hopefully we don't have to redo 11 the figures but every three years. Because once we have the 12 base done of the number of people that we have, we're going 13 to just be adding employees that may have quit or passed 14 away, or new, which might change our numbers. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. About halfway down 16 that page, Court-appointed civil attorneys. I guess in -- 17 you know, just by -- just by looking at that piece of paper, 18 I can't tell if it's Court-appointed attorneys out of -- out 19 of Judge Tinsley's (sic) court or if it's Court-appointed 20 attorneys out of Fredericksburg or what. But I guess I could 21 get the budget and look up 407. 22 MS. HARGIS: 407 is our new C.P.S. line item. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is our new C.P.S. line item, 24 so those are C.P.S. -- 25 MS. HARGIS: Cases. 2-8-10 148 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew that; I was just 2 checking to see if you did. All right. Page 2. 3 AUDIENCE: Oh, lord. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About halfway down, the jail 5 court expenses. I see -- now we were reported to this 6 morning by Mr. Behrens that David Cavazos is no longer an 7 employee, and we're paying him 2,500. I'm assuming that that 8 completes his service to Kerr County. I'm assuming that that 9 completes his service to Kerr County? 10 MS. HARGIS: I have not looked at that, so I will 11 not answer that question till I do. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. I can 13 still assume it, though, whether you know it or not. 14 MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm -- you know, unfortunately, 15 sometimes these folks cross over months, and so I need to see 16 what his invoice says. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure this is a simple 18 thing. I really haven't gotten to my question yet. And then 19 Ralph -- our dear friend Ralph with the goofy hat is -- he's 20 into us there a little bit. Now, here's my question. When 21 and if Judge Sherrill turns in an invoice for his services, 22 will it be in -- in this area right here? 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes. And Judge Sherrill doesn't turn 24 them in monthly; he generally turns them in -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I think he 2-8-10 149 1 served this county 25 years without turning one in. 2 MS. HARGIS: -- quarterly or something. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I understand his 4 operation. Thank you very much. That would be me. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments? 6 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 7 hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 12 MS. HARGIS: Judge? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. 14 MS. HARGIS: I have one more that we -- that we had 15 removed from the list, and I need to add to the list. This 16 was for radio equipment as part of a grant, and I pulled it 17 because I thought it was in association with the cars; I 18 didn't want to pay it till the cars got here. But these are 19 hand-held radios for the Juvenile Probation Department, and 20 in the amount of $3,915. Again, these are funds that are 21 coming out of the grant that they just received from the 22 stimulus money. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And the grant funds are in-hand? 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: And the radios are here? 2-8-10 150 1 MS. HARGIS: Well, grant funds are not in-hand. We 2 have the grant. We have to spend the money; then we get 3 reimbursed. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: A reimbursement grant? 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: But the radios are here? 7 MS. HARGIS: Radios are here. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 9 MS. HARGIS: Now, I do want to make the Court aware 10 that all those grants that we got from -- from the governor's 11 office are reimbursement grants, so we're going to have to 12 spend those funds and then get reimbursed. So, we're going 13 to have to buy the five cars for Rusty. We're going to have 14 to buy the cars for Juvenile. We're going to have to pay for 15 the 198th's software system and then be reimbursed. It's a 16 monthly reimbursement; generally doesn't take long. It's the 17 same reim -- same granting agency as we use for Rosa, so 18 we've not used them for anything else but Rosa's grant for 19 the last few years, but these are government -- these are 20 governor's grants. So, we have to -- we have to apply for 21 funds, and then we get reimbursed. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, where do the funds come 24 from to do that? Do we have to declare an emergency, take 25 them out of reserve? 2-8-10 151 1 MS. HARGIS: It's a -- when it's reimbursement, 2 generally we just we take them out of the cash fund, and we 3 show that it's coming from a grant, and then we reimburse 4 ourselves. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cash -- what cash fund? 6 MS. HARGIS: We just -- we'll probably -- we set it 7 up in Fund 10, because that's where our major cash fund is. 8 And -- and we have a receivable set up from the governor's 9 office, and these grants are already online. I made sure 10 they were online, that the funds were approved. And they're 11 actually spelled out in the governor's office now, these new 12 grants that we have are every 30 days. We can get reimbursed 13 every 30 days, but we can't for at least 30 days. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: For accounting purposes, then, when 15 the grant's been approved, in essence, it's budgeted as a 16 receivable? 17 MS. HARGIS: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And so you charge it against that 19 receivable, and then when it's reimbursed -- 20 MS. HARGIS: It zeros out. It's not an expense to 21 us, 'cause it zeros out. The Homeland Security grant that we 22 did last year for 125,000, remember? I came back to you on 23 that. It's the same situation. And these reimbursable 24 grants, when they come up and ask for these, and we know 25 we're going to have to pay out first and then be reimbursed, 2-8-10 152 1 so it's kind of a cash flow issue, because -- but it's not an 2 expense to us. It's a receivable. It's a different -- 3 different animal. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion to approve that 6 expenditure for the radios? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for 10 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. We got 16 some direct payables that you are presenting to us now. Let 17 me ask first if you got -- looks like you got two different 18 direct payables here. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that not correct, Ms. Hargis? 21 MS. HARGIS: Yes. One of them is requested. 22 Remember, we spoke about that. One is actually requested by 23 the department head. The other is to avoid the late 24 payments. The Atmos Energy, again, we have to get -- those 25 are our utility bills. Ikon apparently gives us a real short 2-8-10 153 1 fuse. If we don't pay them, we get a late charge, and we 2 don't want that. Those are copiers. Walmart is the same 3 way. I have fought Walmart every -- for all my clients 4 wherever I've ever been. They give you five days to pay 5 their bill, and they like to assess you with a late charge. 6 These are the ones we know we get the late bills on, so we -- 7 we have them as a regular payable. The others are generally 8 for training, and the folks ask for these training checks 9 generally about two weeks before they go. I don't want to 10 give them to them too early. So, if you'll look at these, 11 most all of these are for training purposes, and that's 12 the -- the reason we have direct payables. But, again, the 13 reason I'm doing this is I want the Court to understand all 14 the checks that go through my office; that you're aware that 15 people are going to travel, that you're aware of their 16 training. Yes, you've approved this in your budget, but this 17 way you know. And -- and I just feel more comfortable with 18 you knowing every single check that goes through my office, 19 so you're going to get a copy of every single check. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Now, here's a 21 separate piece of paper that says purchase order receipt 22 register. 23 MS. HARGIS: That's -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are these -- 25 MS. HARGIS: -- the same -- 2-8-10 154 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask my question. Are 2 these a part of this as well? 3 MS. HARGIS: Two separate -- two separate ones. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I see Atmos -- Atmos 5 Energy on here, and I see Atmos Energy on here. You just -- 6 you referred to Atmos Energy on here. 7 MS. HARGIS: I just referred to it on the first 8 one. I don't think it's on the -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What is this I have 10 here? 11 MS. HARGIS: That is the bills that we pay that 12 would have a late charge on them if we didn't pay them. 13 That's usually -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. This is all late fee 15 stuff on this one here? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask a question about 18 one other -- 19 MS. HARGIS: I'll try to answer it, but I may not 20 know the answer. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's fine. I mean, 22 this Atmos Energy, I understand that's gasoline for somebody. 23 MS. HARGIS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ikon is a copy machine. 25 Walmart's a big building out here west of town. But what is 2-8-10 155 1 David Havis? 2 MS. HARGIS: David Havis is with Adult Probation. 3 You really don't have to approve that one, but unfortunately 4 it prints out on the report. He teaches the drug classes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that $725 is for his 6 teaching? 7 MS. HARGIS: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you very 9 much. 10 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That's actually budgeted, isn't it? 12 MS. HARGIS: Yes, they have it budgeted. 13 MS. BAILEY: Buster, that's a grant-funded payment. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. It's, 15 like, DWI's or something? Or -- 16 MS. HARGIS: No, it's actually their drug and 17 alcohol abuse classes. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. 19 MS. HARGIS: And he provides that service to us, 20 and he has actually an assistant that also works with him. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool and groovy. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 23 Further question or discussion on the direct payables? All 24 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2-8-10 156 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have 4 any budget amendments? 5 MS. HARGIS: No, we do not. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills? 7 MS. HARGIS: We do not. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been handed monthly 9 reports for Constable, Precinct 4, for December '09 and 10 January 2010; Constable, Precinct 4, Racial Profiling for 11 2009; Constable, Precinct 1, for January 2010; Justice of the 12 Peace, Precinct 3; County Clerk for January 2010; 13 Environmental Health for 2010; and Kerr County payroll for 14 January 2010. Do I hear a motion that these reports be 15 approved as presented? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 20 indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or 21 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 22 signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 2-8-10 157 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. Reports 2 from Commissioners in connection with their liaison 3 assignments. Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, thank you. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the benefit of not only 7 the Court, but the working press here, we're going to be 8 doing a public hearing in Center Point on February -- 9 February 24th; I believe it's 6 p.m., for the purpose of 10 satisfying the public's need to know where we are in the 11 project, and Water Development Board's wanting some 12 affirmation that -- that this is a project that people would 13 like to see move forward. I'd like to get with both of you 14 sometime between now and the next few days and talk about it 15 in-depth so that we can have some good notification of that 16 meeting and so forth and so on. And I note with interest in 17 the morning paper that, if I read correctly, some 600-plus 18 people have opted out of the CCN project with the city of 19 Kerrville, and that's on the agenda for discussion tomorrow 20 night. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That could be a mistake. 22 According to the letter I saw, if they -- if they opt out, 23 what I read from the City Manager was you have the option to 24 opt out, but if you do, you may never get city services 25 again. 2-8-10 158 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My goodness. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did I not read that? 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You read it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you did. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that could be a mistake, 6 to opt out. I mean, that seems fine and fun and everything, 7 and -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- but I don't know if 10 that's the way to do it. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a real threat, isn't 12 it? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is. Scared me. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A real curveball, isn't it? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner 16 Williams? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only -- I've got a 20 bunch of stuff working with the -- the habitat conservation 21 plans and all this other stuff. We won't go into all that 22 today. But anyone that wants to go to Del Rio, Region J is 23 meeting there Thursday at 10 o'clock. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, really? Del Rio? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Supposed to be green down 2-8-10 159 1 there now. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I was just thinking 3 about -- Thursday is when we're supposed to have bad weather. 4 I'm not sure -- 5 MR. BOLLIER: Jody said she'd be more than happy. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we'll reschedule it for 7 Kerrville. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be beautiful 9 downtown Del Rio? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Held at the Del Rio Bank and 11 Trust building. Right next door, there's a great restaurant. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Makes me want to go. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you're going to get my 18 liaison report about the jail population, 'cause our Sheriff 19 has gone to assist in a sale. It's going to be real short; 20 not going to have a lot of comments about it. Total jail 21 population as of 8 o'clock this morning, 146. Females, 24. 22 He has space for 32. Males, he has 122. He has a total 160, 23 so there you have it. Twenty-six -- the 216th has 37, 198th 24 has 23, County Court at Law has 28, and we have -- 15 of 25 those prisoners are from Gillespie County. 2-8-10 160 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you wish to offer? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not particularly. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any reports from 6 elected officials or department heads? Ms. Bailey? 7 MS. BAILEY: I really just have an announcement. 8 I'll get over here. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's running for office. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 11 MS. BAILEY: What? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you running for office, 13 by any chance? 14 MS. BAILEY: Perhaps. The Kerr County Attorney, in 15 conjunction with U.G.R.A. and the Kerr County Environmental 16 Health Department, are going to be presenting an outdoor 17 burning workshop at U.G.R.A. on February the 18th from 5:30 18 to 8:30 in the evening. We're going to have presenters from 19 those three agencies, as well as city fire marshal, the 20 Sheriff's Department, Department of Agriculture. 21 Commissioner Baldwin will come talk about the burn ban from 22 the Commissioners Court perspective. We're going to do a 23 press release later on today, but I just wanted to make you 24 all aware of it and make sure that you know you're all 25 invited to come and participate. 2-8-10 161 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With -- on that, I happen to 2 have -- I happened to be over at the U.S.D.A. office when 3 they came and asked me about that, and I believe they're 4 trying to get Bill Armstrong, is who I recommended to come 5 talk about prescribed burning, if they can get Bill over 6 there, because their current group over there is not real 7 well-versed in -- in prescribed burns. 8 MS. BAILEY: I have spoken to a person from the 9 Department of Agriculture, and they have recommended that -- 10 that Gary Ploch come and speak on their behalf. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 MS. BAILEY: I have spoken to him, so they -- he is 13 a representative. It's not Bill Armstrong, but -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good. 16 MS. BAILEY: -- it should be a good discussion. 17 We're going to have some handouts so that citizens should be 18 able to get all those different perspectives all together in 19 one place. I'm kind of excited about it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials or 21 department heads wish to give us a report? H.R.? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure am hungry. 23 MS. HYDE: This will be quick. Here's enough for 24 Cheryl too. I was real excited to report to you before the 25 decrease in our medical cost as far as prescription plans; 2-8-10 162 1 especially talked to the Judge about it. The December cost 2 was significantly less after we made our changes. The 3 January cost re -- re-came back up. 4 MS. HARGIS: Re-came back up? 5 MS. HYDE: Re-came back up. And what I just handed 6 you is one of the reasons why. This is the latest in what 7 our new -- what the drug companies are doing. And what it 8 basically is, is a little credit card that they give to the 9 doctor's offices and to the pharmacies that can be used in 10 conjunction to pay a person's co-pay, and it's up to 50 bucks 11 on their co-pay. Imagine that. It's right in line with what 12 your -- what we increased co-pays with, and it's up to 12 13 times per year. Imagine that. Thirty-day supply, 12 times. 14 So, next Commissioners Court I'll be bringing to you -- 15 requesting that we no longer accept this for any of the 16 companies, and that these seven drugs that went on the higher 17 co-pay will now be an approval -- preapproval process drug, 18 because of these things. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again, now. A 20 doctor -- I go in to my doctor, and he has his own little 21 credit card. And I have -- no? 22 MS. HYDE: It's the drug companies, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a drug company 24 person sitting there with their own little credit card, and I 25 have my own little credit card, right? 2-8-10 163 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I want to use mine, 3 because it's mine. 4 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they want to use 6 theirs -- I'm not going to finish that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you going? 8 MS. BAILEY: It might be better if you wait till 9 she puts that on the agenda for -- just -- it sounds like 10 we're getting into consideration rather than -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't know; you're 12 going to have to convince me. What's government doing 13 involved into telling them how to run their business? I 14 have -- I have -- I can make my own decision. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The drug companies that are -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't talk about it. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- on this other tier are attempting 18 to cover the financial disincentive that we have created to 19 get us back into paying for the high-price drugs on that 20 fourth tier by helping the employee cover the disincentive 21 that we created. That's the bottom line. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we'll discuss it next 23 meeting. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the meantime, don't use 25 the purple card. 2-8-10 164 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't use their card. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Any other elected 3 official or department head? Any more business? We are 4 adjourned. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:40 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 12th day of February, 16 2010. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 2-8-10