1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, March 8, 2010 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 8, 2010 2 PAGE 3 --- Visitors' Input 5 --- Commissioners' Comments 5 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 revise Kerr County Order #5051 (Fixing Bounties in Kerr County) 11 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 receive the "2009 Racial Profiling Statistics" submitted by the 198th District Attorney's Office 20 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the 9 submission of the Criminal Justice Program/Byrne Justice Assistance Grant Fund application for 10 2010-2011 21 11 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve final inspection and issue a certificate 12 of compliance for Cedar Oaks Mobile Home Park 23 13 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with Branch Water Services 14 d/b/a J3S, Inc., for underwater surveys of Flat Rock Lake 24 15 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 16 concerning bid exemption of purchase contract for courthouse audio/video and courtroom 17 teleconferencing equipment 30 18 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action concerning acceptance of 2009 Racial Profiling 19 Report for period of 1/1/2009-12/31/2009 34 20 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to rescind court order regarding Cummings Lane, 21 currently being maintained partially by the County and partially by the residents 35 22 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 23 formation of road district in part or all of Lazy Valley Country Unit #1 Subdivision 42 24 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 25 formation of road district in part or all of Castle Lake Ranch Subdivision 46 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) March 8, 2010 2 PAGE 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 privacy officer signing new business agreements with Willis HRH and Script Care required for 4 Kerr County 50 5 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding vehicle traffic during the Easter 6 Festival at Flat Rock Lake Park 52 7 1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to open, refer, and award annual materials bids 8 for road base, cold mix, aggregate, emulsion oil and corrugated metal pipe 62 9 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 approve new telephone service provider for the county courthouse 65 11 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve purchase of software license upgrade for Laserfiche using current/past year's capital funds 85 13 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 14 personnel issue regarding prescription plan modifications pertaining to Kerr County medical 15 prescription plan. 90 16 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding redistricting/precinct issues in 17 Precinct 4 108 18 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to select consultant for 2010 census redistricting 19 and authorize County Judge to sign contract for same 116 20 4.1 Pay Bills 119 21 4.2 Budget Amendments 124 4.3 Late Bills --- 22 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 125 23 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 126 24 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 132 25 --- Adjourned 139 4 1 On Monday, March 8, 2010, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled and posted 9 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court, Monday, 10 March 8, 2010, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. Commissioner 11 Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Please join me in a word of 13 prayer and the pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 17 heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is 18 your opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your 19 mind. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask 20 that you fill out a participation form. There should be some 21 located at the rear of the room. It's not absolutely 22 essential that you do that, but it helps me to understand 23 that there's someone that wishes to be heard, and hopefully I 24 won't overlook them when we get to that agenda item. If you 25 wish to be heard on an agenda item and you haven't filled out 3-8-10 5 1 a participation form, when we get to that item, get my 2 attention in some manner and I'll see that you have that 3 opportunity. But right now, if there's any -- any person 4 that wishes to be heard on any item that is not a listed 5 agenda item, come forward and tell us what's on your mind 6 now. Come forward; give us your name and address. 7 MR. MOORE: Do I have to, Judge? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You sure do. 9 MR. MOORE: I'm Edward Moore. I live at 154 Molina 10 Drive in Kerrville South. I'm going to take this opportunity 11 to explain to all you gentlemen the great satisfaction I have 12 with having Rusty Hierholzer and his people come out to our 13 area and our volunteer fire station and represent the 14 Sheriff's Office and educate the local citizenry on what had 15 gone on in the last several weeks and the impact he had with 16 his people to solve that problem. And as a person that lives 17 out there and representing my volunteer fire department, I 18 want to thank him. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 20 MR. MOORE: Thank you and your group, sir. Thank 21 you very much. Thank you, gentlemen. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else wishing to be heard on 23 any matter that is not a listed agenda item? If not, we'll 24 move forward. Commissioner Oehler, what do you have for us 25 this morning? 3-8-10 6 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have some sad news. 2 We've lost one of the great citizens in west Kerr County. 3 Bert Winston passed away yesterday afternoon in Denver. He 4 had been up there for some treatments; had some lung 5 problems. And he has been a great supporter of lots and lots 6 of programs in Kerr County, kids and fire department and 7 individuals. He's been a longtime friend. I've known him 8 for over 30 years. I think Commissioner Baldwin's known him 9 even longer than I have. But we will -- we will dearly miss 10 him. He was a great asset to our community. And that's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Dittos. We'll 13 miss Bert. Great guy. I've got a couple of things here. I 14 want to start putting together a dinner on the ground 15 program. And I just wanted to say if any of you guys have 16 issues or problems with doing that, let me know. And I'll 17 argue with you, and do it anyway. (Laughter.) But I'd like 18 to know what your concerns are, if -- if you have any. 19 Number two, Historical Commission. There is going to be a 20 couple of -- what do we call them? The -- last week's Ingram 21 West Kerr County Current, Irene wrote an article in there, a 22 story about the cattle drive that came through here. I 23 highly recommend that you get that newspaper and read that 24 article. It was excellent. It was good stuff. Didn't 25 mention me, but maybe next time. The -- and one of those 3-8-10 7 1 cattle drives that came through here is called the Great 2 Western Trail, and it came right through Kerrville, and it 3 was some -- some of our old Kerrville people were involved 4 with it, and super story. They're going to have the 5 unveiling of a marker dedication out on Harper Road. This is 6 on April the 10th, at Dr. Rector's place right before you get 7 to yours, and that's April the 10th at 2:30. And then a 8 little later on, the -- the Armadillo Farm down by Comfort is 9 going -- we're going to have a marker dedication down there. 10 That's a mile and a half this side of Comfort there on the 11 highway. But I just -- I'm bringing that up so you guys can 12 put it on your calendars and consider going. And in a couple 13 weeks, there will be someone from the Historical Commission 14 will come in and formally invite everybody, but I just kind 15 of wanted to give you a heads up. It's a couple of really, 16 really exciting times, and hope everybody can attend. That's 17 all, Judge. Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are those dates? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: April 10, that's the Great 20 Western Trail, and then May 22nd is the Armadillo Farm. One 21 other thing. I saw a couple weeks ago the Auditor had sent 22 out a memo of some sort trying to start scheduling all of our 23 agendas for adopting the budget and that stuff that goes 24 along with that. And we're kind of getting in -- and some of 25 it was in the month of July, and I really would like for us 3-8-10 8 1 to get that nailed down, 'cause there's going to be some time 2 in July that I'm going to be out of town. And I've got to -- 3 and I've got to be at these votes on the budget issues. So, 4 we can start -- whoever it is that puts those things 5 together -- I didn't realize it was the Auditor, but that's 6 fine. I'd like to get all that stuff nailed down, those 7 dates that we're going to be doing all those little things. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Yes, sir, thank 10 you. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had a public meeting in 13 Center Point on the 24th of February regarding the wastewater 14 project, and that was a -- a condition of the B section of 15 the planning that we're going through. Probably 60 -- 16 between 60 and 70 people attended. It was a good meeting. A 17 lot of explanation with respect to where we are in the 18 project, what we're doing and so forth and what comes next. 19 Didn't hear any objections from any of them that were there, 20 even though the engineer was about 30 minutes late getting 21 there. They were getting a little antsy in their seats 22 waiting on him to get there, so I extracted a promise that 23 he'll be on time at the next one. But it was a good one. 24 That completes the B section of the planning, and we'll move 25 on to the C section, which is a pretty short section. Still 3-8-10 9 1 haven't heard, unless Mr. Garcia back in the back has heard 2 from the Texas Department of Health Services with respect to 3 the survey that they have to do in the proposed service area. 4 So, that's -- that has to take place here pretty soon as 5 well. That's it, Judge. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: ETJ. Two things. One, we're 8 waiting on -- we are making progress. Councilman Motheral 9 and I have met a couple times, and it is currently in the 10 hands of the County Attorney's office and the City Attorney, 11 because there's some legal issues that have come up as to who 12 can do what, and authorities and things of that nature. And 13 I've got a meeting of my task force on statewide rules in 14 Austin this Thursday. I will bring up some of these issues 15 with them and a few others, possibly talk to Water 16 Development Board's lead attorney, 'cause they are in charge 17 of the model subdivision rules. But, anyway, that is going. 18 I do know that Councilman Motheral sent around a draft 19 agreement, and those that did receive it, that is a draft. 20 It's nowhere near a final document. There's lots of issues 21 on that, and we've passed over huge sections of it waiting 22 till we got a response from the legal gurus as to how -- you 23 know, what can and can't be done in certain areas. Really 24 sorry to hear about Bert Winston. His son and I are real 25 good friends; we worked at Exxon together, and he'll be a 3-8-10 10 1 loss. That's it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I would remind everybody, as you 3 well know, every ten years we have a census in this country, 4 and the census period begins a week from today, the 15th, and 5 it runs through April 15. So, all of you who have received 6 the census inquiry forms, the survey forms -- I believe there 7 are, like, ten questions, and that's all there is. Please 8 get that done. I am told it's -- preliminary indications are 9 that Texas, because of the shift in population, will gain as 10 many as four new members of the House of Representatives, 11 Congress, and that's all based on population. The other 12 thing that falls into the application on the census is when 13 they go to calculating how they divvy up the money coming 14 from D.C. So, it's very, very important that you participate 15 in the census. Yes, Big Brother wants some information from 16 you, but yes, it's important that they get it, and as your 17 county, that those in your household are counted in order 18 that we may get the appropriate representation that we're 19 entitled to in the -- in this state, and also we are 20 considered for the appropriate level of funding. So, I urge 21 you to participate. Encourage your friends and neighbors, 22 family members and so forth to do likewise. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge? I heard on the news 24 this morning, as a kind of a warning, that if someone -- if 25 they knock on your door and they're with the Census Bureau, 3-8-10 11 1 always ask for some identification. I thought that was 2 pretty good advice. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. They -- and they will have 4 distinctive identification badges or credentials that they 5 can -- they can exhibit to you. So, yes, ask for it. Be 6 certain that -- that they are who they say they are. And 7 once you satisfy yourself that they're with the census 8 department, they're participating in that effort, why, answer 9 their questions truthfully, and hopefully we'll get 10 additional representation in Congress and get a bigger piece 11 of the pie that comes down from Big Brother. Somebody's 12 going to get that pie; it might just as well be us. At this 13 time, let's go ahead and move forward. Item Number 1 is to 14 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to revise Kerr 15 County Order Number 5051, which fixes bounties in Kerr 16 County, to discontinue bounties on predatory animals, with 17 the exception of coyotes, and use bounty application 18 affidavit prepared by the Kerr County Attorney. Ms. Whitt? 19 MS. WHITT: Good morning. Last week the bounty 20 issue was brought to my attention, and there seemed to be 21 some confusion as to who had the program. And apparently 22 there's no affidavit to be used or anything like that, so we 23 looked it up and went back and found Court Order Number 5051, 24 which you have a copy of. In that, it states that we have a 25 bounty on coyotes, fox, wildcats -- you know, different 3-8-10 12 1 animals. And what I would like for you to consider would be 2 to amend that court order to remove the bounties on all 3 animals, with the exception of coyotes, and let Animal 4 Control take that over rather than the County Clerk's office. 5 Now, the County Attorney did make an affidavit for us to use. 6 At the moment, it does have all of those other animals, but 7 that could easily be -- be removed. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happened was, I had a 9 constituent call me the other day and ask me if that bounty 10 was still in force. He'd lost 14 of his black buck, been 11 killed by coyotes. And he has -- he has managed to get the 12 predator control people involved at one point, and they 13 caught a couple, and then since then he's doing his own. And 14 I told him I didn't know, so we researched it, and this is 15 what we came up with. And so I believe it's a little 16 outdated for -- for today, today's times and where we are, 17 and so that's why it's on here. 18 MS. WHITT: Well, and I believe -- of course, this 19 is back in 1951, which is before my time, so I think the 20 reason it was set into place was because back then, they 21 didn't have animal control or -- or the wildlife management 22 services to help with things like that. Currently, we're -- 23 we're helping people trap raccoons on a daily basis. We get 24 calls on fox and coyotes on a weekly basis, and we -- if we 25 can't help with that, we normally refer them to the 3-8-10 13 1 government trappers. But it's also a concern for me, because 2 those are high-risk rabies carriers, and we really don't want 3 people handling those animals. That's what we're there for. 4 And the wildlife management services is there to help them 5 with them. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the real reason it was 7 passed is because in 1951, this county was largely dependent 8 on sheep and goats. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 10 MS. WHITT: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what it was. 12 MS. WHITT: But I would like an affidavit to be 13 used, because we -- we have to have something on record, and 14 something to prove that, you know, they're -- they're killing 15 these animals in Kerr County. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think the affidavit 17 is a good idea, and I agree with keeping coyotes on the list. 18 The other ones, I think, are a little bit -- they don't need 19 to be on there, in my opinion. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think we ought to be 21 paying a bounty. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, not paying a bounty. We 23 know people will take care of them, but coyotes do a lot of 24 economic damage, and I think it's a good idea. I make a 25 motion to approve the agenda item as submitted. 3-8-10 14 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, though. 3 Janie, on the affidavit that was prepared for you, it still 4 shows fox for a dollar and raccoons for 50 cents. 5 MS. WHITT: Yes, and that can be removed. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MS. WHITT: Yeah, that can be removed. I can bring 8 that back to the County Attorney, and she can -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that -- let me clarify. 11 That's only the bounty for coyotes, which I think is what the 12 agenda item was -- 13 MS. WHITT: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you think we ought to 15 raise that a little, or just leave it the same? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much is it? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $15. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $15 for a wolf or coyote. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When did it go to 15? 20 MS. WHITT: It's always been 15. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1951. 22 MS. WHITT: Yeah, 1951. It's -- the county order 23 states $15. And I know back when Glenn Holekamp was Animal 24 Control Director, they were doing that out of Animal Control. 25 I was working there at the time. But I don't think it ever 3-8-10 15 1 went to Commissioners Court to have Animal Control actually 2 take that program over. But I do recall it being $15, and 3 the research that -- that we did shows $15. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I remember -- I got to 5 tell a quick story, Judge. This is my favorite commissioners 6 story. Back in the olden days when I was a commissioner down 7 there where Bruce is, I saw a lot of fun things happen in 8 this room. I mean, fist fights, the whole thing. It was 9 great, great commissioners court stuff. (Laughter.) But my 10 favorite one was we were dealing with this issue one time; 11 the public wanted to up the bounty on coyote ears -- and I 12 guess it was 15; I remember it as 5, but 15. And, of course, 13 we -- you know, these tight old German boys weren't about to 14 go over $15; you know, that's a lot of dang money. And one 15 day we were arguing about that, and that back door opened, 16 and Bob Ramsey, who recently passed away, he stands inside 17 that door and throws a full-blown dead coyote at us. And we 18 sat down here at this table at that time, before we got our 19 throne, and the coyote hit about halfway on the floor, slid 20 right up to our feet, blood everywhere. He made his point. 21 I don't remember what happened. I never -- I haven't gotten 22 over that yet. But I guess we remained -- the price remained 23 the same. But that was back in the good days. He made a 24 great point. 25 MS. WHITT: One other issue I have is, when I spoke 3-8-10 16 1 to Jeannie this last week, she said we would be taking this 2 out of Animal Control, out of my operating expense. This 3 does state that it is to be taken out of the general fund. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you prompted my question that 5 I was going to ask. Where are we going to get the money to 6 pay these folks? 7 MS. WHITT: Well, I haven't budgeted for it. And 8 this states out of the general fund, so I'd prefer that it -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 10 MS. HARGIS: It is the general fund. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think this is going to 12 be a huge amount of money. I mean, the majority of them are 13 trapped by government trappers, and those are not eligible 14 for this. 15 MS. WHITT: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you know -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Except there was an 18 individual in the west end of the county that would run those 19 snares for the -- for that, come and turn the ears in for a 20 bounty. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if it starts becoming a 22 -- you know, for the time being, I'd take it out of your -- 23 you know, you have a miscellaneous or operating -- some kind 24 of a fund out of your account for right now. If it starts 25 being a problem, we can find money for you. I mean, 3-8-10 17 1 that's -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or take it out of 3 nondepartmental. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or nondepartmental. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioners Court 6 contingency funds. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, it's -- I can't 8 imagine this being more -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Coyotes are not that easy to 10 kill. You know, there's not -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we get $100, I'll be 12 surprised, out of this fund. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 MS. WHITT: Well, that's fine. We can take it out 15 of my operating at the moment, and if it becomes a problem, I 16 can bring it back to Commissioners Court. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I note that in 1951, $15 18 was a lot of money. It's probably worth 50 to 75 now, if you 19 calculate over the 50 years. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. Any 21 more questions or discussion on the motion? Mr. Neunhoffer? 22 MR. NEUNHOFFER: I'd just like to make a few 23 comments on this. Coyotes are still a big -- big factor in 24 the livestock and in the wildlife business here. Four years 25 ago, coyotes got out of hand in our neighborhood there on 3-8-10 18 1 Turtle Creek, and we finally -- we have a government trapper, 2 but he is spread so thin that sometimes you're on his list 3 for two years before he can come to you. When he finally got 4 in there on Dr. Risinger's and on Bill Child's place and 5 ours, in six months, we took 33 coyotes out of there. They 6 were killing grown deer; they were killing calves, and 7 needless to say, they were killing sheep and goats. And they 8 were rather detrimental to both livestock and wildlife that 9 people were in, you know, economic need of at the time. The 10 -- another interesting point, it's been four or five years 11 since I've checked. Mason County's bounty is $115 on 12 coyotes, and they do have a deal where you have to prove that 13 you're a landowner or have a written deal from the landowner 14 that there were coyotes taken from their ranch to collect 15 that bounty. They do have an affidavit of some sort to -- to 16 keep people from going down to South Texas and shooting a 17 pickup load of coyotes and going up here and collecting the 18 money. 19 MS. WHITT: That's my concern. 20 MR. NEUNHOFFER: But -- but coyotes are still a 21 serious problem. I've killed four myself in the last four 22 months out there, and I still have plenty of them out there. 23 And I had to laugh at the newspaper; the article the other 24 day said that '06 was the last time a bounty was collected. 25 I think I'm the one that collected that bounty in '06. So, 3-8-10 19 1 anyway, that's my comment on the subject. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to be worried about 3 you going back and finding those four coyotes that you killed 4 and clipping their ears, are we? 5 MR. NEUNHOFFER: I've got them in the freezer. 6 (Laughter.) I wait till I get a half dozen or so before I 7 bring them in for the bounty. I did get the bounty in '06 on 8 it, though. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Not only were you the last; you're 10 going to be the first under the new one, huh? 11 MR. NEUNHOFFER: But coyotes are -- are a problem 12 county-wide, though. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Should we raise it to $25? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say why don't we do it at 15 budget time. See how much -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Leave it like it is now? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I have no problem with 18 raising it, but I'd rather do it at budget, 'cause we didn't 19 really budget this. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can create a line item 21 for it at budget time, too. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or discussion on 23 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 24 your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3-8-10 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 4 to Item 2, to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 5 receive the 2009 racial profiling statistics as submitted by 6 the 198th District Attorney's office. I put this on the 7 agenda to comply with a requirement of the law that we 8 receive, and I assume acknowledge, receipt of same. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, is there a deadline 10 on when these things need to be turned in? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Honest answer is, I don't know, 12 Commissioner. You might want to ask the -- 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: March 1. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it March? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: March 1 is when it goes 16 through, and you have to turn it in. Next year it all 17 changes. Now we'll also have to send them to Austin. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know Constable 1 has 19 turned his in months ago, way, way ahead of the rest of 20 y'all. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He's quick. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's the way we do 23 things in this precinct. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Precinct 1. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept the report as 3-8-10 21 1 presented. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 4 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 5 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's go to 10 Item 3; consider, discuss, and approve resolution for the 11 submission of a Criminal Justice Program/Byrne Justice 12 Assistance Grant Fund application for 2010-'11 to the Office 13 of the Governor, Criminal Justice Division, purpose of the 14 grant being to fund purchase of three new vehicles for 15 constables in Precincts 1, 2, and 3. Mr. Lavender? 16 MR. LAVENDER: Good morning, gentlemen. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning. 18 MR. LAVENDER: I'm here to advise you that we are 19 in the process of making application for the vehicles, and, 20 of course, Commissioners Court needs to submit a resolution 21 in support of that. I think you have a copy of that. And I 22 have -- just so there's no question, I've contacted 23 Commissioner 4, and he's wanting to stay with his personally 24 owned vehicle. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Constable 4. 3-8-10 22 1 MR. LAVENDER: That's correct, Constable 4. I'm 2 sorry. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the same program 4 the Sheriff got cars out of? 5 MR. LAVENDER: Same program, and virtually the same 6 vehicle. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate you doing this. 8 I move for approval. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12 approval of the agenda item and the resolution. Question or 13 discussion on the motion? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the total amount of 15 dollars? 16 MR. LAVENDER: $119,223. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if we get this, that's a 18 savings to taxpayers of Kerr County, $119,000? 19 MR. LAVENDER: 223, yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And $223.12. 21 MR. LAVENDER: Every little bit helps, 22 Commissioner. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure it does. Thank you so 24 much. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Other questions or comments? All in 3-8-10 23 1 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, John. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 6; consider, 8 discuss, take appropriate action to approve final inspection 9 and issue a certificate of compliance for Cedar Oaks Mobile 10 Home Park in Precinct 1. Mr. Odom? 11 MR. ODOM: Good morning, Judge. Mr. Yun owns the 12 property off Westway. It's called Cedar Oaks Mobile Home 13 Park. Wayne Wells has looked at it, done his final 14 inspection. He's given his approval for the -- for the 15 final. The roads in this park are to be privately 16 maintained, not County-maintained. All the fees have been 17 paid. We have a signed affidavit from Mr. Imel stating that 18 he will complete the communications and electrical, which was 19 the situation that we came to the Court before on, the way 20 Windstream has changed the game. So at this time, we ask the 21 Court for their approval for final inspection on Cedar Oaks 22 Mobile Home Park and for the Court to issue a certificate of 23 compliance to finalize this project. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a simple question. 25 The -- you said all fees have been paid. Everything, the 3-8-10 24 1 $882 and one penny? 2 MR. ODOM: That is correct. That -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has been paid? 4 MR. ODOM: Am I -- 5 MS. HOFFER: Yes, both have been paid. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 9 approval of the agenda item. Further question or discussion 10 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 16 to Item 7, which is to consider, discuss, take appropriate 17 action to approve a contract with Branch Water Services, 18 doing business as J3S, Inc., for underwater surveys of Flat 19 Rock Lake. Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. This is -- this 21 is the company that gave us a presentation with respect to 22 doing a density and profile of Flat Rock Lake Park. And I 23 noted to you in the backup memorandum the full density survey 24 will be 27 acres of the lake closest to the dam, and which is 25 Section A. If you refer to the aerial which is a part of the 3-8-10 25 1 -- of the presentation, he's got the lake broken into four 2 sections, A, B, C, and D. A and B are our sections, which 3 are the first section closest to the dam. Second section 4 takes in a huge portion of the lake, 54 acres, and ends at 5 about where the boat ramp is in Flat Rock Lake Park. And the 6 total cost I am recommending to be not to exceed 35. It 7 could be less, and I'll tell you why. I went to visit the 8 City Manager, and I gave him a copy of this proposal and 9 stepped him through it, and indicated to him that this is an 10 opportunity for them to do their shoreline as well as we 11 doing our section -- two sections of the lake. And if you 12 look at the aerial, their shoreline is actually D and C, D 13 being the area where they did all the rock work around -- in 14 the lake, preserving the cypress trees, and where most of the 15 swimmers use the lake at that point. But the D -- the C 16 section of the lake also includes their shoreline, and that's 17 where a lot of the campers have their camping spots and so 18 forth. 19 So, I urged them to take a look at it. If they 20 want to participate, they can do so. And their survey would 21 be of the shallow kind. Wouldn't be nearly as deep or 22 intense as what ours would be in the A and the B section, but 23 it would alter the cost. And that's why I say I'm asking the 24 Court for it not to exceed a number, depending on what the 25 City does. 'Cause if they do the C section, that amount of 3-8-10 26 1 dollars would come out of -- out of the proposal which he has 2 identified as being a part of our proposal. He identified 3 ours as being A, B, and C. So, that's where it is. And 4 they'll do it within, I think, a couple weeks after they get 5 a signed contract, and we'll know exactly what the lake's all 6 about, have a good sense of what the volume of silt is, if we 7 wish to attack that. We'll have a fix on all the submerged 8 objects in the lake, so that if we wish to at some later date 9 go to work on the moving of those, we'll be in a better 10 position to do that. And that's the nature of the 11 presentation. City Manager indicated that he would talk 12 to -- probably put it on the Council's agenda; wouldn't be 13 for tonight, but for the next time out. And he felt like 14 this is something that they probably ought to do. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, the amount would be 16 decreased by whatever -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they opt for the C 18 section, that would decrease our amount. If they opt not to 19 do the C section, the bathometric people have included it in 20 our base number, A, B, and C. 'Cause they didn't realize 21 that the C section really was tracking a large piece of the 22 city's parks shoreline. So, that's where it is. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, can I just say 24 something real quick? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 3-8-10 27 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about 2 draining the thing, and we're going to take out all the 3 obstructions and whatever there. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're not talking about 5 draining it, Commissioner. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I understand. I 7 understand -- excuse me, did I say draining? Well, I 8 remember -- my point is, I remember the time -- the last time 9 it was drained, there was some fellows that took -- I think 10 there was some metal structures, as well as trees and limbs 11 and things and stuff, and tied them together and put -- for 12 fish habitat in the bottom of that lake. As well as the -- 13 let's see, is that U.G.R.A., L.C.R.A. -- U.G.R.A. Lake, for 14 -- for habitat. And I'm sure that the -- that the -- if it's 15 wood, I'm sure that stuff has been rotted out by now. But if 16 there is -- I mean, it's something we want to think about. 17 If we -- if we can replace fish habitat, or if there's 18 someone around that -- you know, I just think that would be a 19 neat thing to have. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's probably some 21 fishermen who fish that lake frequently that could identify 22 where they are. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that they could be 25 protected. And also in the proposal, they talked about, in 3-8-10 28 1 the A section, identifying where the ball is and the outflow 2 on the dam, and also they make reference to identifying a 3 water intake, and they erroneously called it a city water 4 intake. That almost has to be Comanche Trace's water intake; 5 that's the only one I know of of any magnitude out there. 6 There are others, but that's the biggest one. So, I think 7 they didn't know that. So -- but -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: During the wintertime, there 9 won't be a lot of other people accessing the water out of 10 there to do their watering their yards or whatever. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, this particular 12 survey, will it be done in a manner that there will be an 13 overlay available, same scale and so forth, on the 14 bathometric that we've got under consideration? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They'll give us pretty 16 detailed profiles, Judge, not only of the bottom, but of the 17 density of the material that's in -- on top of the -- of the 18 lake bottom surface. And they'll also -- or they'll 19 identify, I guess by shadow, 'cause it's really sonar, a 20 sonar technology; they identify stumps and fallen logs and 21 all that kind of stuff, and they can pinpoint it. What they 22 do is take a section of the lake, for example, the A section 23 near the dam, and they -- and they create a grid, a geo grid. 24 And then they start their work based on the geo grid, so that 25 they have a complete profile of the bottom and what's in 3-8-10 29 1 there. And then they move on to the next section, so forth 2 and so on. So, whatever report we get back, Judge, should be 3 very, very detailed. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This will be the one time 6 that it will need to be done. I think now we don't know, 7 because there's nobody around that was actually there when it 8 was built to give us that information. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly right, 10 Commissioner. I checked with Leonard and Kelly, and there is 11 nothing in our files going back that indicates anything like 12 this. And when we talked about doing mechanical or removal 13 of silt, one of the things that the T.C.E.Q. people, 14 watermaster people cautioned us about was, you don't go in 15 there with mechanical and not knowing what the bottom's all 16 about and fracture that bottom, 'cause then you got yourself 17 a really big problem. And so this will help us identify the 18 profile of the bottom so we know better what we're talking 19 about if we wish to do that, either mechanically or by 20 dredge. And dredge, of course, being the more -- less 21 invasive, but the more costly process. So, I would move for 22 the Court's approval of Item Number 7, doing business for -- 23 this geo survey of Flat Rock Lake for a number not to exceed 24 $35,000. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3-8-10 30 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Further question 3 or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 4 signify by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motions carries. Let's move to 9 Item 10, if we might, to consider, discuss, take appropriate 10 action concerning a bid exemption of the purchase contract 11 for courthouse audio/video and courtroom teleconferencing 12 equipment in accordance with Chapter 262.024 of the Local 13 Government Code, Section (7)(a), that being an item that 14 could be obtained from only one source, including items for 15 which competition is precluded because of the existence of 16 patents, copyrights, secret processes, or monopolies. 17 Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think most of the 19 attachments are there. This includes -- and as the County 20 remembers from the last Commissioners Court, with the 21 funding, is the total of a little over $99,000 in all, so 22 that would be over the 50,000 that would require the bidding 23 process. But you can see attached to this, there is two 24 different letters from the company stating about -- and from 25 even the C.E.O. of the company that this is sole-source 3-8-10 31 1 equipment, many of those processes in there, and that they 2 aren't available anywhere else. And it's all attached. And 3 due to that, I felt it was required to bring this to the 4 Commissioners Court, because under 262.024, it states that a 5 contract for the purpose of any of the following items is 6 exempt from the requirements established by 262.023 if the 7 Commissioners Court, by order, grants the exemption. And 8 that item is items for which competitive is precluded because 9 of the existence of patents, copyrights, secret processes, or 10 monopolies. I did run this one through Ilse. She has looked 11 at everything in it, and agrees that this is sole-source 12 exempting from that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why would we want to 14 exempt it from the bid process? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because it's sole-source 16 equipment that's going in up there. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause what, Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because it's sole-source 19 equipment that's going in up there. They're the company that 20 have that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sole source is a company 22 name? I see. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it's not a company name. 24 It's the items. 25 MS. BAILEY: The items have proprietary -- 3-8-10 32 1 proprietary software in them which makes them exempt from 2 bidding requirements if you find, in fact, that they are 3 proprietary processes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: This particular company is the only 5 company which has that technology available to it because it 6 is proprietary; therefore, you pay the appropriate price. I 7 assume, Ms. Bailey, that you have reviewed that and do find 8 that -- have ascertained that it is, in fact, sole source 9 because of the technology and the monopolies, proprietary -- 10 MS. BAILEY: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and so forth? Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we declare an exemption 13 or what? 14 MS. BAILEY: Yes, you have to find that it's 15 exempt. In other words, Rusty can't just make that decision 16 on his own. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank goodness for that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, for sure. Do we need 19 any documentation or anything like that? 20 MS. BAILEY: I think the documentation is there 21 attached to your item. There are two letters from the 22 provider. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MS. BAILEY: Both of which indicate that it's 25 proprietary software, and therefore sole source. 3-8-10 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Essentially, it's 2 the software, not the hardware? 3 MS. BAILEY: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 MS. BAILEY: Well, the hardware may be proprietary 6 too. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I doubt that. 8 MS. BAILEY: Yeah, the software is the likely. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Buster, he could make that 10 decision if he was taking it out of his seizure money, 11 couldn't he? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and I don't know why 13 he doesn't. Has he considered that? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know why he doesn't 15 do that. 16 MS. BAILEY: I still think y'all have to make the 17 decision. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess he's putting it on us 19 so he doesn't have to use his money. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My response to that, even if 22 we were using seizure funds, spending over that amount, I 23 believe I'd still be required at least to go out for bids, 24 just on my own deal. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3-8-10 34 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless it was sole source. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're seeking today is a 3 finding and order from the Court today that the -- the 4 designated equipment is, in fact, sole-source equipment? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 10 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Item 11, 16 consider, discuss, take appropriate action concerning 17 acceptance of the 2009 racial profiling report for the period 18 of 1-1-2009 through 1-31-2009. Sheriff? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I believe it's been submitted 20 with the report. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everyone else is not as quick 24 as Constable 1. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3-8-10 35 1 acceptance of the proposed report. Question or discussion? 2 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 3 hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 8 Item 12; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 9 rescind court order regarding Cummings Lane currently being 10 maintained partially by the County and partially by the 11 residents. Commissioner Oehler? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ms. Bailey? I think I gave 13 you all the documentation on this. 14 MS. BAILEY: Yes. I don't have the diagram with 15 me, but essentially, Cummings Lane consists of some deeded 16 property that goes almost to the end of Cummings Lane, and 17 then there's a short piece of property which was at one point 18 deeded separately and identified as private. That private 19 area then goes off into another -- another area which has 20 public access to it. The conflict has arisen because 21 apparently back some time ago, there was a hearing at which 22 that -- that small portion was declared private. And since 23 that time -- actually, I thought it was the owner of that -- 24 that sliver, but it's actually the tenant of the adjacent 25 property has placed an obstruction on that, therefore keeping 3-8-10 36 1 people from being able to access the whole public area. 2 We -- there are two issues. One is that we've done the 3 research that would indicate to me that that area, which some 4 people believe to be private, has actually become public, 5 either by prescription or by dedication, so it's actually not 6 a private road. Secondly, there was a hearing before this 7 Court at some time in the past, and you may know the dates, 8 where there was a declaration that that was a private -- a 9 private area. However, apparently proper notice was not 10 given to all the adjacent landowners, so that declaration of 11 it being private is presumptively ineffective to declare that 12 private. 13 So, the bottom line is that we have Cummings Lane 14 that connects up to another public area, that -- partly a 15 road and partly a large kind of parking/driving area. That 16 should be open; should not have that obstruction for those 17 two reasons. And in order to clarify the issue, I think we 18 need to have the Court review that prior order that public 19 notice was not given for, and to declare it invalid, and then 20 to also direct my office, or maybe the Sheriff's Office or 21 whoever's appropriate, to require the obstructions that are 22 on that to be removed. There was actually a big tank of some 23 kind that was placed right in the middle of the road so that 24 you couldn't get around it, but I've been told now that that 25 tank is removed. 3-8-10 37 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's gone. 2 MS. BAILEY: But that the person who put the tank 3 there is now parking a vehicle across that, so that's still 4 inaccessible to the public. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What this is, is whenever the 6 subdivision Walter Masters put in years ago, you know, where 7 Blue Ridge is on one end, then Cummings goes straight across 8 over by the storage buildings. Somehow or another, the part 9 between the end of where A-1 Transmission is and those 10 storage buildings, that was changed to private somehow or 11 another, and from what I've been told, sometime in 2000, 12 early 2000. And there's a property owner that has land in 13 there that was never notified that that was going to become 14 private, and she's kind of upset about it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't blame her. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, she is. She happens 17 to be a neighbor of them. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I don't blame her a bit. 19 You can't close somebody's access, and it being a 20 County-maintained road all those years. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this particular court 22 order that we -- that we want to rescind talks about 23 notifying everybody and -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't really found a 25 court order. 3-8-10 38 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ah. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cheryl has looked for it. 3 Now, I saw something that resembled one, but I don't know -- 4 MS. BAILEY: Yeah, it's not exactly clear. But 5 regardless of whether or not that order was ever issued, I 6 think that what trumps it is, number one, that proper notice 7 wasn't given, and then number two, that since then there have 8 been other activities which make that road public. One is 9 that one or more transfers of property with that deed have 10 made it subject to any and all apparent public easements. 11 Clearly, that road being across there is a public easement. 12 So, I think that if there was any division of the property 13 making it private sometime in the past, that has been changed 14 by -- by actions subsequent to that. But it needs to be 15 cleared up, because there are arguments either way. Now, 16 since we don't want to get into the same difficulty that 17 we're in right now, I think probably, number one, we need to 18 issue some kind of an order declaring whether it is public or 19 not, but it might be a good idea also to have a public 20 hearing so that all the current property owners have the 21 opportunity to come in to put their two cents in, and then 22 you can make that determination. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Settle it once and for all. 24 MS. BAILEY: Yeah. So, you might not want to make 25 that order today, but you might want to set a public hearing. 3-8-10 39 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Because there's another issue 2 that goes with this, but this is the first one. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The agenda item is styled to take 4 appropriate action to rescind court order regarding Cummings 5 Lane. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The appropriate action could be 7 to set a public hearing. 8 MS. BAILEY: That's exactly my point, yeah. 'Cause 9 we can't -- I think that maybe, if we can't do it till we 10 have the public hearing, then that's an appropriate action. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And what prompts my question 12 is, we don't even know whether we got a court order with 13 regard to it. 14 MS. BAILEY: Correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, we need to pass on this 17 until we -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we set a public hearing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can set a public hearing. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, are we going to do that 21 in 30 days? That would be the -- 22 MS. BAILEY: The 22nd is the next -- the next -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be the first meeting in 24 April? 25 MS. BAILEY: April. 3-8-10 40 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the date on that, 2 Cheryl? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The 12th. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thirty days. Otherwise, it's 5 pretty short notice to get it in the paper. 6 THE CLERK: April 12th would be the first meeting. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The 12th? 8 THE CLERK: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we set a public 10 hearing for the 12th of April regarding Cummings lane, at 11 10 o'clock. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 14 indicated to set a public hearing for 4-12-2010 at 10 a.m. 15 MS. BAILEY: And does that motion include to send 16 out notices to all property owners? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: And to notify the appropriate 19 landowners as required by law that are within the appropriate 20 statutory distance from that roadway. Further question or 21 discussion on the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question. It says 23 "partially maintained by the County," I think is what this 24 says. Maintained up to this water tank, or vehicle sitting 25 in the road? Or -- 3-8-10 41 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It had been maintained even 2 back when you were on the Court before down here. It had 3 been maintained all the way through. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And then, somehow or another, 6 about half of it has been made private. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But -- so, by prescription, 8 we really -- we could -- 9 MS. BAILEY: That's the problem with not knowing -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- do the whole thing. 11 MS. BAILEY: -- not knowing what the original order 12 is that we've been talking about, because I don't think if 13 you have a road that was originally public, I don't know that 14 you -- you could have made it private to start out with. I 15 mean -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You couldn't have made it 17 private without all the landowners agreeing. 18 MS. BAILEY: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's one landowner that 20 was not contacted. That's where we are. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm there. Got you. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 23 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 24 hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3-8-10 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Item 13, consider, 4 discuss, take appropriate action on formation of a road 5 district in part or all of Lazy Valley Country Unit 1 6 Subdivision. Commissioner Letz? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is an area off Stoneleigh 8 Road. We've done some preliminary work, had some preliminary 9 costs of what it would cost to upgrade the road to a county 10 road. It's in a subdivision, and they would like to proceed 11 with the whole process to get a road district formed. Their 12 goal, they would like to have it on the March -- I mean, 13 excuse me, May 8th election date. And I put this on the 14 agenda, as well as the next item, to -- can't get on the 15 May 8th? 16 MS. ALFORD: You got to have a public hearing. 17 Don't you need to have a couple of public hearings before -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not -- that's why I -- I 19 mean, I'll defer to Ilse, and that's the reason it's on the 20 agenda, is because there's a -- it's rather complicated. And 21 I've read everything that I've seen that -- coming through 22 the County Attorney's office. It appears to me there's 23 really just one -- it's all done at one time, and one public 24 hearing, but I'm not positive about that. 25 MS. PIEPER: You also have to have 60 days notice 3-8-10 43 1 to D.O.J. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just like Ingram Lakes, I 3 believe, right? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's the last one, I 5 believe. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Requires a public hearing, 7 'cause there's taxes involved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we talked a little bit 9 about there's a Department of Justice requirement that you 10 get it on the ballot. These are -- I wouldn't -- I mean, 11 maybe it's a sub to this type of election, but this is a 12 special -- I mean, very small. One of them is going to be 15 13 lots, and -- actually, both of them are probably 15 lots, 14 very small. Each one probably has less than 10 voters 15 maximum. But, anyway, if it's -- if it takes that -- I don't 16 know if it takes a requirement or not. Anyway, Ilse? 17 MS. BAILEY: With respect to the timeline, it's 18 hard to say whether or not you can get it on because of the 19 variables, but I'll state the variables and then you can 20 decide whether or not you can do it within the time. First 21 of all, the road district has to be designated or described. 22 It doesn't have to be described by survey, but it has to be 23 specifically described. So, who's going to do that, and how 24 long will it take? Then, secondly, the Commissioners -- a 25 road district can be created on motion of Commissioners Court 3-8-10 44 1 or petition by property owners. Probably want to go the 2 route of petition by property owners, because you can't set 3 up -- you can't do bonds for the payment of it unless you do 4 it on petition of the owners. So, I'm going to -- in my 5 analysis, I eliminated doing it on the Court's own motion, 6 and I'm just looking at -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My understanding of what could 8 be done, you know, is that the Court can do it, but have a 9 subsequent thing of the bonding as an agenda item also. So, 10 the Court creates the road district, but we don't do it until 11 we have the funding mechanism in place first. 12 MS. BAILEY: Right. But if you're talking about 13 trying to get that on the May agenda -- I mean, you could 14 order it today, but you still have to go through the process 15 of getting that petition so that you can get the bonding 16 issue on the -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 MS. BAILEY: -- election for May. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Both groups have told me they 20 can get it within a week. 21 MS. BAILEY: Okay. Then, secondly -- of course, I 22 guess you'd say this would also be within that week -- who 23 will identify the property owners and prepare and circulate 24 the petition? When the petition is then filed with 25 Commissioners Court, it will have to be placed on the next 3-8-10 45 1 agenda. So, depending on when -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. BAILEY: -- that is filed, then you either get 4 on this next agenda or the one following. Then, of course, 5 you have to give the public notice to all of those 6 individuals according to statutory requirements, and then 7 schedule a public hearing. You have to do that within -- 8 it's between 15 and 90 days after the order. So, if you did 9 it within 15 days, that probably gives you enough time. If 10 it's within 90 days, probably not. And then, of course, how 11 long it will take to get preclearance from the Justice 12 Department is another time factor. My understanding is that 13 that is a pretty rapid process if you have all of your ducks 14 in a row. You've probably been through that, Jannett, so you 15 may know more than I do about the timeline on that. But 16 it's -- so it's conceivable that you could have it on the May 17 election, but you need to really -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we also have to have 19 some estimate of cost, Commissioner? 20 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have an estimate on cost on 22 one of them, and on the other one, Len's looked at it. He 23 hasn't looked at it recently, I know. The other one came up 24 quickly. The other one, the -- well, that's the next agenda 25 item. You might call the next agenda item so we can talk 3-8-10 46 1 about both simultaneously. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we can just run them, 'cause 3 there are common issues. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and call Item 14; 6 consider, discuss, take appropriate action on formation of 7 road district in part or all of Castle Lake Ranch 8 Subdivision. We got the same issues there, obviously. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, it's the same. It's a 10 little bit smaller. That's the one that came up rather 11 quickly. This is a -- their access is through Bandera 12 County, little corner down there, Castle Lake Subdivision. 13 I've been telling the people I talked to in this subdivision 14 for probably six, seven years, they need to do a road 15 district. They decided they're gung-ho to do it now, right 16 away. (Laughter.) They actually called me three times; they 17 were having a meeting with all the people that would sign it 18 in there. You know, so -- and it's a pretty small stretch of 19 road, so I think we can probably get an estimate pretty quick 20 on what it would cost to bring that road up to county 21 standards. One question I do have on both of these, on the 22 bonding petition, can it be a "not to exceed" number? Both 23 -- another issue. Both of these have the value to support 24 doing this. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, let me ask a question 3-8-10 47 1 when you're there. You're talking about -- I thought I heard 2 the attorney say something about some -- somebody's 3 responsible for determining who the property owners are. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And in the back of my mind 6 somewhere, we're also -- someone has to be responsible for 7 determining the value of those properties. 8 MS. BAILEY: I think you do that by the Appraisal 9 District. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that still the way we 11 do -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- road districts, that they 14 have to have that -- they have to have enough value in order 15 to pay the bond back? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And both of these do. I mean, 19 within limits. The Lazy Valley's a little bit -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that up to us to 21 determine that? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the value -- I think 23 there's some -- we determine what the -- how much tax they're 24 going to be levying on themselves, and they decide if they 25 want to levy that or not. We kind of give -- it's a formula 3-8-10 48 1 which, you know, you got to pay it back in -- we have used 15 2 years. We can go, I think, up to 30 if we want, but we've 3 tried it; 15 is probably better. And then, you know, the 4 value's pretty easy; we have that on the appraisal rolls. 5 And then people. And the areas are simple on both these, 6 'cause both of these are platted subdivisions, so we can 7 identify the lots. That's why the -- defining the boundaries 8 is simple on this one, because they just have to figure out 9 which lots they want in it. 10 MS. BAILEY: In answer to your question about the 11 amount of the bond, at least the last bond election that we 12 did, the proposition read authorizing the district to issue 13 its bond in the total sum of, and then the -- the specific 14 amount. I don't think that you can or should do, you know, a 15 movable amount in there. But, certainly, if you think it's 16 going to cost this much, you put that as the maximum, and 17 then hopefully, you know, your cost will be less than that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it comes in less, you pay 19 off the bond. 20 MS. BAILEY: Faster, I guess. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Give back the portion you 22 don't use. Don't sell those bonds. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Excess proceeds that aren't 24 required, you just apply that on your debt. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't know that we would 3-8-10 49 1 -- I don't know that we would know that. They would know the 2 cost. I think you have to get the bonds, you know, before 3 they start the work. You may not know, so there might be a 4 little bit, you know, they're not going to know. I don't 5 think any contractor is going to go straight off a bid. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds to me like you've got 7 a lot of work to do in the next week or two. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's -- 9 MS. BOLIN: Today is the last day to call for an 10 election for the May ballot -- for the May election day, so 11 there's no way it can be done in May. There are no special 12 election days. The next soonest day will be the November 13 election. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The November one? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be quick enough. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: May have to be. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a whole lot better 18 than waiting another year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Give us an opportunity to make sure 21 we hit all the stops and do everything exactly right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess it's pretty much up to the 24 citizens in those two areas now to -- once we give them a 25 grocery list of what they need to do, -- 3-8-10 50 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- from their standpoint, to move 3 forward now. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the -- well, I'll get 5 with Diane, then, to figure out -- probably going to be -- 6 they need to almost start working now to get it on the 7 November, even. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Makes a lot more sense. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not long till November. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, on Item 15, the business 15 agreement with Willis H.R.H. and Script Care, that shows 16 executive session. That's not necessary, is it? Okay. Let 17 me go ahead and call Item 15. Consider, discuss, take 18 appropriate action on privacy officer signing new business 19 agreements with Willis H.R.H. and Script Care required for 20 Kerr County. This is essentially the same issue that we had 21 before us previously, authorizing you, as the designated 22 privacy officer, to execute those particular agreements? 23 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only thing that we're -- 25 MS. HYDE: These are different ones. 3-8-10 51 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- dealing with, correct? 2 MS. HYDE: These are different ones, so I told 3 Commissioner Baldwin I would make sure that I brought every 4 single one of them to the Court, and let's gets a court 5 order. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're going to designate 7 you every time? 8 MS. HYDE: I'm the privacy officer. I guess you're 9 going to designate me that I can sign it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we did that last 11 time. 12 MS. HYDE: These are two new ones. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we do it every time 14 something new comes up? 15 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a funky way to do it, 17 but whatever. Okay. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think Ms. Hyde's 19 understanding was, even though we designated her as privacy 20 officer, because there would be multiple agreements to come 21 down the pike, she would bring each of those back to us just 22 to get the Court's approval. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: To allow her to move forward. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 3-8-10 52 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Makes sense. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? I 6 assume the County Attorney has reviewed these agreements? 7 MS. HYDE: I was looking for her. Yes, sir, she 8 agreed to them. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Further question 10 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 11 raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's now go 16 to our 10 o'clock timed item, Item Number 4, which is 17 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding vehicle 18 traffic during the Easter festival at Flat Rock Lake Park. 19 Ms. Vickers? 20 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And you are Bliss Vickers. You 22 represent the American Legion; is that correct? 23 MS. VICKERS: Yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, thank you. 25 MS. VICKERS: What -- we have the court order to 3-8-10 53 1 use the park, which we got that back in October. But what 2 we're trying to do is be able to lock the gate so that we 3 don't have vehicular traffic in the park, because of the 4 Easter egg hunt and all the children, and the band stage is 5 set up right beside the road inside the park, and people 6 gather in front of the band stage. And we just want to be 7 able to lock the park -- the gate, just for the hours that 8 we're there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did we do last meeting? 10 I thought we did that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We affirmed that there's no 12 exclusivity to a lease on the park, or renting the park. The 13 Sheriff brought the issue to us, and it was his understanding 14 that -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Different party? Or -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I think it's the same 17 people. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same people. The issue was -- 19 I brought last time was that it was brought to me that they 20 just wanted to close the park during that time, and I didn't 21 think that we could do that. And they wanted to limit people 22 from bringing in outside alcohol and their ice chest; I 23 didn't think we could do that. They weren't able to make it 24 at the last meeting to explain their side of it more, if the 25 Court will remember. So, when they came back to us and asked 3-8-10 54 1 us again about it, I suggested they put it back on the agenda 2 and bring it back and let y'all hear that side of it, and 3 decide. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we made a decision last 5 time, did we not? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That there's no exclusivity 7 with respect to the park. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to get angry. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm not. Not yet. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so you're here to appeal 11 that decision? Or -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What -- 13 MS. VICKERS: No. I was just told, since we didn't 14 make it last time, that we needed to get back on the agenda 15 and a representative come and ask the Court if we could just 16 close the park for vehicular traffic. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 MS. VICKERS: We don't want to -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: In the area where the Easter 20 activities are located. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It would be the whole park 22 would be closed. The gate would be shut. You only have the 23 one gate entrance there right by the boat ramp, just to keep 24 any vehicles from driving through the park at all. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would include vehicles of 3-8-10 55 1 people attending your event as well? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, they're wanting to allow 3 those in. 4 MS. VICKERS: The cooks come in with their trailers 5 and their R.V's and all that, but we want to lock the gate 6 after 10 o'clock. That was -- they would have to come in and 7 get set up and park their vehicles someplace else as well. 8 It's just -- I mean, we want pedestrians down there, 9 obviously. It's a fundraiser for us, so we want people to 10 come. We just want to keep traffic out as much as possible, 11 just for safety issues. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple 13 questions -- I'm sorry, Judge. Go ahead. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: You've got a safety issue that 15 you're trying to address here because of the number of 16 pedestrians, people moving around in that location. I assume 17 there would be exceptions for law enforcement, for example, 18 if there was a need for emergency vehicles, law enforcement, 19 fire, whatever? Ambulance? 20 MS. VICKERS: Yes. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Also for -- you're going to be doing 22 some trash pickup and things like that, and I don't know 23 whether you're going to be using ATV's for that, or -- or 24 pickup trucks or what, but that would be -- that would be, 25 obviously, probably some other kind of exception. But 3-8-10 56 1 generally, no normal vehicle traffic within the park. 2 MS. VICKERS: Correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only other question I 5 would have is, who is going to maintain the key to that gate? 6 Or are they going to put a combination-type lock on there? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or am I going to have to have 9 a deputy stationed at that gate for the entire day at the 10 County's expense? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Y'all are going to have 12 security of your own of some sort? 13 MS. VICKERS: We have talked to the Sheriff about 14 hiring security during 12:00 to 6:00, during the day. Last 15 year the Sheriff's Department, they patrolled the park. They 16 cruised through in their vehicles, and we didn't have to hire 17 anybody last year. And there was cause for an ambulance to 18 come down there. There wasn't any problem with that vehicle 19 getting in and out. We manned the gate just to try to keep 20 the traffic out ourselves. We didn't actually have it closed 21 and locked. We had people manning the gate to direct people 22 for handicapped, where they could park, and shuttled them in. 23 We brought them down in a golf cart last year. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where did you direct them 25 to park? 3-8-10 57 1 MS. VICKERS: Up by -- around the American Legion 2 and around Freedom Hall. Some spaces were kept open down 3 right by the boat ramp for the handicapped. We tried to keep 4 those open. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the people who 6 might want to use the park for a family event of their own? 7 And they're coming in with all their supplies and so forth to 8 take care of their little clan. How about those folk? 9 MS. VICKERS: Well, we -- I don't know about that. 10 We didn't have any wanting to do that last year, but I 11 suppose we could let them in. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, my issue with that is, I 13 don't want my agency to end up having to draw the line to 14 what is a public park and for all the citizens of Kerr 15 County, that we're going to pick and choose which ones can 16 and cannot go in and out the gate. I understand the issue 17 with an Easter egg hunt and children, you know, being around 18 there, but I just -- I don't know where we go with this, 19 Commissioners, as far as who you're going to allow and what 20 handicap's going to get in there, and what time frame. And 21 the security we have there I don't think should be standing 22 there, just -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This has been going on a long 24 time. 25 MS. VICKERS: Mm-hmm. 3-8-10 58 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it has. 2 MS. VICKERS: I don't know how it got blown out of 3 proportion. Last year we didn't have any problems. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have a problem with 5 designating a group to have -- something as large as this. 6 It really couldn't fit with somebody that wanted to have a 7 family picnic; they couldn't reserve the whole park. But if 8 it's a group like this, I can understand where they need to 9 have control over, you know, access. And it's a benefit to a 10 lot of folks in the community. It's not just a one-family 11 issue. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand the benefit. 13 And these folks have been doing it a long time. How many 14 people usually attend the Easter egg hunt? 15 MS. VICKERS: Just the children, or are you talking 16 about whole festival? Whole festival, last year we had 17 around 2,000, and this year were expecting even more. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that would be on a 19 come-and-go basis? 20 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And those with 22 children who come especially for the Easter egg hunt and so 23 forth, those festivities, did you allow -- in the past, did 24 you allow their parents to bring them in and those vehicles 25 to come in? 3-8-10 59 1 MS. VICKERS: No, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They walked in? 3 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. They parked above. 5 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'd eliminate a lot of 7 problems if we close it to all vehicles that are not 8 authorized by the -- this other festival -- Easter festival 9 group to be there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if you have vehicles -- 11 all I hear that really needs to get in there are the cooks 12 and some of those groups. They'll be in there before. 13 MS. VICKERS: Correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you can close it at a 15 certain time. And, obviously, you mentioned ambulance. 16 Well, ambulance, law enforcement, they can go in wherever 17 they want. So, I mean, that's not an issue. I think you 18 just -- you either close it or don't close it, to me. It's 19 got to be black and white. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only issue would be, then, 21 to do it like they did it last year. Let them man the gate. 22 I don't think we should have an officer manning that gate. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we'd get hit for another 25 deputy. 3-8-10 60 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can do that too, 2 Commissioner. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I don't want a deputy 4 doing it. You folks -- if you -- if the Court agrees with 5 you, you'll have to man that gate yourself. 6 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. We did last year. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. I move we 8 authorize the -- what's the name of your group? 9 MS. VICKERS: American Legion. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The American Legion does it? 11 MS. VICKERS: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The American Legion has 13 authority to regulate traffic inside Flat Rock Park for the 14 festival. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 17 indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Vickers, I'm going to 19 vote no, simply because I don't think that we should be 20 denying people the right to their own property. If Billy Bob 21 and his children want to go in there and set up their little 22 fishing camp, they need to have the right to do that. They 23 own it as much as everybody else. Nothing -- nothing against 24 anybody. 25 MS. VICKERS: I understand. 3-8-10 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just -- that's the way 2 I think. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to vote yes, with 4 the understanding that if a family group comes in and they 5 wish to use the picnic table on the lakeside for their own 6 little clan, there won't be an issue about them having 7 access. 8 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do I have your 10 understanding on that? 11 MS. VICKERS: Yes, sir. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Vehicular access? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Vehicular access? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. They can walk in with 17 their coolers and their clan. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can still access it. 19 They just won't be able to drive it for this week -- one 20 weekend, the way I look at it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With that understanding, 22 I'm with you. Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All 24 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (Commissioners Williams, Letz, and Oehler voted in favor of the motion.) 3-8-10 62 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 3 (Commissioner Baldwin voted against the motion.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's move to 5 Item 5, also a 10 o'clock timed item. Consider, discuss, and 6 take appropriate action regarding to open, refer, and award 7 annual materials bids for road base, cold mix, aggregate, 8 emulsion oil, and corrugated metal pipe. Mr. Odom, we got a 9 bunch of bids up here. 10 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. May I also point out that 11 this -- when we sent this agenda item in, and I think the 12 supporting document says that we were going to come back in 13 March, the next meeting, but this says "award." So, we 14 didn't plan on awarding it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I want to give you that option. I'm 16 the one that added the "award." If you wanted to come back 17 later and go ahead and finalize it, you can. If you want to 18 bring it back, that's your option also. 19 MR. ODOM: That's fine. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I -- I had not seen the backup 21 material at that time, Mr. Odom, so I just put it there to 22 give you more -- 23 MR. ODOM: That's okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- more versatility here. First bid 25 we have is from Wheatcraft, Incorporated. Looks like we're 3-8-10 63 1 dealing with base material. Next bid is from Wilson 2 Culverts, Incorporated, and that is dealing with corrugated 3 metal pipe. Next bid is from Allen Keller Company, and it is 4 for base material. Next bid that we have is from Martin 5 Marietta, paving aggregate, emulsion oils, base material, and 6 hot mix, cold laid asphalt. Next bid is from Ergon Asphalt 7 and Emulsions on emulsion oils. Next bid is from Vulcan 8 Construction Materials on paving aggregates, hot mix, cold 9 laid asphalt, emulsion oils -- excuse me, emulsion oils is 10 not included. Paving aggregates and hot mix, cold laid 11 asphalt. Next bid is from Texas Corrugators, south Texas 12 region, on corrugated metal pipe. And the last bid is from 13 Contech Construction Products, Inc., corrugated metal pipe. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept all bids and 15 refer them to Road and Bridge Administrator for 16 recommendation. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When will you bring it back, 21 Leonard? 22 MR. ODOM: I'm -- well, we'll take a look. I don't 23 know. May I get back with you -- probably you'll take a 24 break here in a little bit. Let me look at it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would hope so. 3-8-10 64 1 MR. ODOM: So, our plan was to look at it, analyze 2 it. We had some questions about the aggregate, and I don't 3 know -- I don't have the documentation to show you at this 4 point. We're just going to open and try to make sure -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no hurry. You can do 6 it -- next meeting is fine. 7 MR. ODOM: That's the way -- I feel like there's no 8 hurry for it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Either way. It's your call. 10 MR. ODOM: All right. May I -- Cheryl, may I take 11 that to y'all's place and have it Xeroxed? 12 THE CLERK: Yes. 13 MR. ODOM: Without me taking it out of the 14 building. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify 18 by raising your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Why don't we 23 go ahead and take about a 15-, 20-minute recess right now. 24 (Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:35 a.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 3-8-10 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 2 we might, from our recess. We'll go to Item 8, our 10:30 3 timed item. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 4 approve new telephone service provider for the county 5 courthouse. Mr. Trolinger? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Good morning. Thank you. Two -- 7 two preliminary items. There's a representative from 8 Windstream here, Kimberly Dandurand, who would like to speak. 9 And the second is, I don't -- I don't know if I clarified the 10 -- that the contract was existing, but the County Attorney 11 did take it upon herself to review, and wanted to make clear 12 that she might want some additional changes besides the 13 original 2007 contract changes that were made at that time by 14 Rex Emerson implemented in this contract. Just -- just 15 legalese and some verbiage that might need to be struck out. 16 The -- the way I worded it was that we're going to approve a 17 new telephone service provider, which is technically correct, 18 but the primary reason for the change is that the type of 19 line we have now takes all our phone calls in, our inbound 20 calls, and the new type of line that we would like to change 21 to provides both in and outgoing. This will be a cost 22 savings -- a slight cost savings overall, and that's the 23 prime reason that we want to change. The existing line from 24 Windstream is fine. Our new telephone system can't quite 25 handle some of the things that need to be done. But the -- 3-8-10 66 1 the primary reason to change this is for the cost savings and 2 the technology. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- go back to your 4 statement. What -- what or why can't the new system handle 5 the Windstream? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the -- the T-1 line that 7 exists today is a -- is 1996 implemented technology, and the 8 box that we have that interfaces with the line, we just 9 haven't been able to get programmed. The contractor hasn't 10 been able to get it programmed to work 100 percent the way we 11 want it to. We had long-term plans to move to this new type 12 of service. It's not something that we weren't going to do. 13 It's just that we wanted to put the new telephone system in 14 first before we started switching to the new -- the new 15 inbound and outbound service. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will this fix the -- I mean, 17 I see written in here the T-1 issue is the major problem 18 today. Will this action that you're asking us to take today, 19 will that fix the T-1 issue? 20 MR. TROLINGER: I'm told it will fix the problem 21 that we're having with the echo on the phone system. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like there was more 23 than echo, though. Basically, he says that the T-1 is the 24 problem -- okay. Echo is one, yeah. And, of course, your 25 department hiding these tools. But -- which was my favorite. 3-8-10 67 1 (Laughter.) That was my favorite thing in here. But seems 2 like there was -- I apologize, I'm not prepared to talk about 3 it, but seems like the T-1, there was the echo issue and 4 there was a couple of issues. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Delay. Voice delay. 6 MR. TROLINGER: I don't believe the delay is 7 associated with the T-1. I believe that's the phone system 8 itself. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So the T-1, then, is 10 ancient -- whatever it is. If we get -- if we approve the 11 agenda item today, then that fixes that issue? Is that -- 12 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. And also our -- our fax 13 lines, we've got various issues with. But I believe that 14 we'll resolve the outbound faxing problem and inbound faxing 15 problem -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 MR. TROLINGER: -- with this new type of service. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is not a T-1 line as 19 we know it, what you're proposing? 20 MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is an internet 22 protocol line, right? 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, no. It's actually called a 24 P.R.I. line, which is primary rate interface, just a 25 different type of T-1. It's a newer version of a T-1. 3-8-10 68 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it maximize our 2 ability to bring calls and data in as well as out? 3 MR. TROLINGER: It does. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 5 MR. TROLINGER: It does. What it does is it 6 eliminates -- right now we have a bunch of plain old 7 telephone lines for outbound calls, and it eliminates those 8 and consolidates it all on this one line. And that's where 9 we get a lot of cost savings, is those individual lines that 10 we're paying for for the outbound right now, and especially 11 on the fax lines, are -- are expensive compared to a P.R.I. 12 So -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Currently, those are 14 separate lines? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, they are. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they would all be 17 consolidated in this new protocol? 18 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you've mentioned 20 savings a couple of times. What type of savings are we 21 looking at, or for? 22 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the cost of the line is more, 23 but by eliminating the -- the outbound POTS lines, we're 24 going to be about $50 less per month overall, I think, once 25 we're done with everything. You know, between the three 3-8-10 69 1 providers I looked at -- we've got three different providers 2 in town now. We've got Hill Country Telephone, Time-Warner 3 Cable, and Windstream. Between the three of those, the cost 4 difference is significant, and that's why I'm recommending 5 Time-Warner today, because their cost is about $505 per month 6 on the P.R.I., and they are the lowest. And then the other 7 two were -- were higher. I can go through all those numbers 8 if you'd like. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, the -- you've 10 obviously received bids from all of those providers that have 11 the capability to provide this service that you were looking 12 for. 13 MR. TROLINGER: I did. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: My question goes to the issue of 15 whether or not there was any bid requirement with respect to 16 that. You know, that $500 a month or $600 a month, 17 obviously, that's considerably less than -- less than the 18 threshold amount figured on an annual basis. What -- what 19 have you -- what checking have you done in order to satisfy 20 yourself that there's no requirement for bidding on that? 21 MR. TROLINGER: Well, of course, there's the 22 $50,000 requirement that's the -- for the bid threshold. But 23 just to make sure -- and the Auditor helped out with this 24 extensively, and she made a phone call to verify again that 25 even though the -- the contract states that that this rate is 3-8-10 70 1 calculated for five years, at least two of the providers 2 provided me with pricing based on five years, I went and 3 looked, and the Auditor says the County can only obligate 4 itself to a one-year contract, one-year term, and that's what 5 we base this on. Now, just to make sure, I went ahead and 6 asked Time-Warner to -- to verify that their pricing is one 7 year, and Hill Country Telephone and Windstream also the 8 same; it's a one-year contract. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: It's priced on a five-year basis, 10 but it's subject to approval and appropriation each year by 11 the Court. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's -- a 30-day termination clause is 14 in it. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: So, in essence, the vendor is 16 obligated for this pricing, but we can bail out on an annual 17 basis. 18 MS. HARGIS: That's right. 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And just to make sure, I 20 calculated out -- I included our long distance cost, which is 21 also a factor in this. It's three cents per minute from 22 Time-Warner, versus six cents is our existing. I added the 23 long distance, I added the other things, and I ran it out. 24 Even if we had a huge long distance bill, at five years, the 25 highest number I could come up with was $48,000. So, just -- 3-8-10 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Over the five-year term? 2 MR. TROLINGER: Over five years, correct. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, you only -- you only 5 show us the Time-Warner Cable proposal, and you're 6 referring -- or referencing the other two. Are they apples 7 to apples to apples in terms of what they were asked to 8 propose on the pricing? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And why can't we take a 11 look at the comparative pricing? 12 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I have the comparison here. 13 The -- the basic rate for the -- for the P.R.I. itself is 14 $505, as I said, from Time-Warner. Windstream was 562, and 15 Hill Country Telephone was 558. The most significant 16 difference is the long distance rate, which I -- I looked at. 17 It's about $200 a month on the sample bill that I pulled out, 18 and with Time-Warner, that would cost us $100 today. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Help me understand what I'm 20 looking at in your proposal where it says total monthly, 21 1,095. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. I think those were from my 23 notes where I was jotting down some figures. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the typed-in number from 25 Time-Warner. 3-8-10 72 1 MR. TROLINGER: Oh, that's the Time-Warner number? 2 Time-Warner, I gave y'all the information that I had at the 3 time. Initially, Time-Warner attempted to bundle the service 4 with the internet service together, and I had them agree to 5 break that out to make it separate so that I could just give 6 you -- give you a comparison straight across the board for 7 the P.R.I. only, for the voice service only. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what is the Time-Warner 9 number? 10 MR. TROLINGER: 505. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 505? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was long distance calculated 13 the same way? 14 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, it was cents per minute. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean calculated the same way 16 as far as areas. There's -- I mean, when you call -- well, 17 Hill Country Co-Op, for example, they have a service area 18 that's a long distance rate. Then you have an AT&T rate 19 outside of that. 20 MR. TROLINGER: Oh. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you know, there's different 22 rates. I know Hill Country Co-Op, for example, if you call 23 from here to Comfort, it's one rate, but here to Amarillo is 24 a different rate. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. Well, I'll clarify that to 3-8-10 73 1 make 100 percent sure, but my understanding is it's a flat 2 three cents no matter where we're calling with Time-Warner. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, I am not -- I'm just 4 not totally convinced. Just lack of knowledge is what it is. 5 I'm not totally convinced that the T-1 is the problem with 6 the fax machines and the echo issue. Are you totally 7 convinced that it is the problem? Or is it the equipment 8 that we recently installed? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it's the equipment we've 10 installed that's not able to accommodate the T-1. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 12 MR. TROLINGER: To work with it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there equipment that we 14 could have purchased and installed that would be compatible 15 with the T-1? 16 MR. TROLINGER: Probably. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And I hope -- I hope 18 it's -- the same question could go to Ms. -- Dandurand? 19 MS. DANDURAND: Dandurand, yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dandurand. Maybe she can 21 address that as well, 'cause I just -- I've got this thing -- 22 I'm not comfortable with it. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I agree with you. I don't 24 think this is the solution to our -- to our echo or to our 25 fax line problems. But the contractor -- the installer is 3-8-10 74 1 saying that if you put this line in, I can fix those 2 problems. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you think? That's 4 what I want to know. 5 MR. TROLINGER: I'm skeptical, actually. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why would they say -- the 8 contractor for telephone, why would he give you assurance he 9 could have the right interface with the new equipment, and 10 you're not comfortable with it? 11 MR. TROLINGER: Until I see it work and until it's 12 -- until all the issues are resolved, I'm -- I'm just not 13 there with the -- with the comfort level, on -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you be -- 15 MR. TROLINGER: -- on the fax machines, especially. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you be at that level 17 if we were to install a new T-1 line? 18 MR. TROLINGER: No, I think that would be going 19 backwards. It would -- it might actually increase the cost 20 of the phone system, and it definitely would not combine the 21 services that -- what we're looking to do here with the 22 P.R.I., the inbound and outbound. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- it appears to me 24 that the new phone system isn't working properly, and now the 25 taxpayers are going to pay for a -- you know, there may be 3-8-10 75 1 some savings in it, but there's also -- I mean, we're having 2 to change something that isn't our -- isn't our fault. Why 3 should we have to change anything? Bottom line is, the 4 phones aren't working the way they were supposed to work. 5 And I don't know why we should have to make a decision. I 6 think the contractors have to fix the problem. 7 MR. TROLINGER: I agree. This -- regardless, this 8 was in my long-term plan, to go to a P.R.I. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 MR. TROLINGER: I just want to make that clear. I 11 don't know if it's the solution to the problems we're having 12 right now. I'm a little bit skeptical. I -- the problems 13 will be resolved. But the P.R.I. line is the next step with 14 the old phone system. We were not able to use that type of 15 line, so we had to purchase -- we were required to purchase 16 these POTS lines, these -- these plain old telephone service 17 lines, to have outgoing. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So, your plan was to ultimately 19 phase into this more versatile type of line and to use -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And by doing it now, it doesn't 22 affect the obligation of the -- of the vendor on the new 23 equipment. That vendor still has the obligation to make 24 things work as represented in the bid, and as required under 25 the performance bond. 3-8-10 76 1 MR. TROLINGER: That's right. That's right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: But in moving to that now, there is 3 a small reduction in our monthly cost for the base lineage. 4 Not a great deal; 50, 60 bucks a month, maybe a little bit 5 more. But the long distance charge is cut in half? 6 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're saving money by moving 8 where we were going to move anyway. We're just getting there 9 sooner. 10 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any down side to 12 moving from a service standpoint? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Well, we are putting all our eggs 14 in one basket. Time-Warner provides us with our broadband 15 internet, so if we have an outage, we'll lose both the phone 16 system and -- and the voice. So, I'm considering my next -- 17 my next step here is on broadband. We'll have a second 18 provider, and I'm working on those numbers right now. I'm 19 waiting for one set of numbers yet; I don't have those 20 available today, and then I'll be able to bring that to the 21 Court next -- next go around. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we wait until then till we 23 make -- I'd rather have the flexibility, possibly, of making 24 that decision -- I agree, I don't know that I like having 25 both phone and our broadband on one provider, 'cause outages 3-8-10 77 1 and things do happen. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 3 MR. TROLINGER: That was a big consideration when I 4 was looking at that also, was all our eggs in one basket. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But can we put this decision 6 off till -- for two weeks, and let you come back with both 7 numbers -- both recommendations? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you think you'll have the other 10 available in two weeks? 11 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see a nod. 13 MR. TROLINGER: A nod, okay. Yes, we will. We'll 14 have all three items, so we'll give you a solution that's 15 based on all three available providers. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: There's nothing essential that we 17 need to do today that our system is in jeopardy of not 18 functioning at all if we don't do something today, is there? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Well, depends on -- depends on 20 whose perspective. (Laughter.) The -- the County Attorney 21 and one other office have requested that the fax machines -- 22 the inbound faxes go to their fax machine, and we cannot do 23 that right now with the problem. All the -- all the incoming 24 faxes for the other departments are coming in via fax to 25 e-mail, which is just a wonderful technology; we couldn't do 3-8-10 78 1 that before. But the County Attorney wants the old fax 2 machine to both receive and send. So, I would say that 3 that's probably the primary consideration today, that -- that 4 the County Attorney's fax machine would be fixed. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: People have been getting by on that 6 kind of procedure here for a few weeks -- 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- heretofore, haven't they? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If they'll just kind of -- kind of 11 gut up, they can do it for a couple more weeks. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, one more -- one more 14 question here. Are there any other customers in Kerr County, 15 the size of Kerr County's needs, that have combined voice and 16 data with Time-Warner? 17 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know if it's implemented 18 yet, but Peterson Hospital was on tap to do that. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we find out what 20 -- what they like or dislike about combining the services and 21 so forth with the Time-Warner, as opposed to one of the other 22 carriers. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I want to go back to 25 Commissioner Letz' comment earlier of, you know, why are we 3-8-10 79 1 having to fix the issue? Which I think is a great question, 2 and that goes to this letter from the acting County Attorney 3 to Mr. Trainum. And I'd like to read a paragraph out of this 4 letter, and I want to tell you up front, I'm 100 percent in 5 support of this. She says, "Please be advised that if you 6 cannot provide the Commissioners Court and the I.T. 7 Department with some real and immediate assurance that the 8 remaining items will be addressed to their satisfaction 9 within the next ten days, it may become necessary for the 10 Court to exercise its available options to have the system 11 completed by another vendor. If this becomes necessary, any 12 consequential damages, including additional cost to the 13 County, will become your financial responsibility." 14 So, she's saying -- or the way I'm reading it, 15 anyway, is that here's a list of things that needs to be 16 fixed, and she outlined the echoes and all those things. If 17 you don't get those fixed within the 10-day period, and you 18 don't come in to Commissioners Court and satisfy the 19 Commissioners Court of all these issues, then the County has 20 an option to go and get another company to come in and fix 21 it, and you pay for it. Why aren't we there? See, I'm 22 there. We need to tell the guy, fix this stuff or we'll get 23 somebody else. Actually, he's already been told that. I 24 stand behind this. I think that we need to -- you know, I 25 don't know about this savings thing that y'all keep bringing 3-8-10 80 1 up. I don't know how you -- that sounds like Obama to me; 2 the more you purchase, you save out of it. I don't -- I 3 don't get that. But I just think it's being addressed here 4 in the proper way, and I think we need to stand behind it. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where in the process is the 6 contractor in keeping with what Commissioner Baldwin read, 7 fixing the problems? Where is that? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Well, on the separate issue of the 9 performance of the phone system itself, I've got a list of 10 several items that -- the County Attorney added one or two; I 11 believe it's -- there's a total of 15 items. And we had a 12 response from Mr. Trainum that said he'd be finished on 13 Friday, and as of Friday, he is not finished. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This was last Friday, I 15 think? 16 MR. TROLINGER: This past Friday. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is he making headway? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's making headway because 21 we're going to replace something for him. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's -- yeah, on the 23 agenda thing here. But, I mean, is there -- I agree with the 24 County Attorney's letter. I mean, you know, the system 25 should work without us doing anything. 3-8-10 81 1 MR. TROLINGER: Well, let me put it this way. This 2 agenda item to change to a P.R.I. line, regardless of the 3 installer that installed the telephone system, we would have 4 switched to a P.R.I. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Because overall, it's a better 7 technical solution, and it's the modern way of handling the 8 phone system. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're saying is this is 10 not to fix, quote, his problem. 11 MR. TROLINGER: It -- it is a fix. It will fix one 12 problem that's on that list. But it is not the objective of 13 going to the P.R.I. to fix the contractor's problem for him. 14 We would have done this -- we were going to go to a P.R.I. 15 regardless. The old phone system just wasn't capable of 16 doing that, and the new is. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The P.R.I. fixes the fax issue? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the only thing we know 21 it fixes. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not all the other issues. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Correct. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm still -- you know, I don't 25 want to cause our department heads, employees, offices to 3-8-10 82 1 have problems with faxes, but I really would like to delay 2 two weeks until we can look at the broadband and make sure 3 that we aren't doing the -- making the wrong decision today. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: It appears that that's where we are. 6 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to see you in two weeks? 8 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Appreciate it. 10 Ms. Dandurand? 11 MS. DANDURAND: For the record, Kimberly Dandurand 12 with Windstream. Thank you for your time this morning. You 13 pretty much talked out a lot of what I wanted to say. 14 Regarding your current service, Windstream is the current 15 provider. I just want to address some T-1 concerns that you 16 had with your system. I'm told by all of my engineers that 17 everything is working properly for your T-1. So, I don't 18 know how familiar the Court is with the T-1 technology, but 19 it either works or it doesn't. It doesn't have any kind of 20 in-between level. So, if it's not currently operating with 21 your system, there might be some -- some programming issues. 22 But I did want to address that, that currently your T-1 is 23 functional. It is a -- it's a DS-1 signal, D.T.M.F., 24 wink-start, all kinds of junk that you don't want to know 25 about. So -- but it is currently operational. Windstream, 3-8-10 83 1 as your current provider, did make a recommendation, both 2 with Mr. Trainum and previously with Mr. Trolinger, that a 3 P.R.I. would be a good solution for the -- for the County. 4 When we installed your T-1 in '96, P.R.I. just wasn't 5 available. It wasn't a technology that was available to use. 6 So, that was our recommendation both pre -- pre your new 7 process, and then post process as you're having some issues, 8 we did recommend a P.R.I. as well, whether it's with us or 9 someone else. Of course, we'd prefer our own service. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you planning an upgrade? 11 MS. DANDURAND: As far as? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As upgrading the -- whatever 13 this is to the newer stuff. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Upgrade from the T-1 to the 15 P.R.I. 16 MS. DANDURAND: Correct. That -- that is the 17 recommendation we made as your server, that a P.R.I. would 18 work correctly. Now, whether it's -- it happens before or 19 after your programming issues happen, that's really -- you 20 know, we recommend that the Court do whatever it felt 21 necessary. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Dandurand, as you -- of course, 23 your company, Windstream, had an interest in providing the 24 new equipment, and as part and parcel of the equipment that 25 would have been provided by your company, would that have 3-8-10 84 1 included a recommendation that the new P.R.I. line be 2 implemented, as opposed to T-1? 3 MS. DANDURAND: Again, this system that we proposed 4 was capable of T-1. We did -- we always recommend the best 5 technology, the newest, just because, you know, if you do 6 have a legacy technology, it's -- it's just more difficult to 7 interact with. I mean, if there's an easier, better way, you 8 know, you'd rather work with a DVD player than a VCR. You 9 know, you'd rather work with blue-ray. You know, as 10 technology emerges, we recommend it. Our solution did have 11 the capability of working with either, for what it's worth. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: But would it have been the 13 recommendation of your company that we go to the P.R.I.? 14 MS. DANDURAND: Yes, sir, as far as cost savings, 15 as well as the benefits of newer technology. The T-1 is a 16 24-channel division. P.R.I. is 23 channels, 23 B-1's, as 17 Mr. Trolinger stated. Those are POTS lines, which are a 18 little more expensive. And then that last channel is for 19 features, just caller ID's and some neat things that it does 20 as far as functionals. It's very similar. It's just there's 21 a few other bells and whistles. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any more questions? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what are we going to do? 24 We're going two weeks -- bring it back in two weeks, take 25 another peek at it? 3-8-10 85 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my impression. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 3 MS. DANDURAND: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you 5 being here. Anything further on that particular agenda item, 6 gentlemen? Let's move to Item 9; consider, discuss, take 7 appropriate action to approve purchase of software license 8 upgrade for Laserfiche using current/past year's capital 9 funds. Mr. Trolinger? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you, Judge. Probably not as 11 much background information was provided as I would have 12 liked to. I'll explain just a little bit. Laserfiche is our 13 existing County Clerk's system for document imaging and 14 management. That means we can scan paper and then later on, 15 we can go back and look up that piece of paper and print it 16 out again if we need to. For example, Commissioners Court 17 records are all stored within Laserfiche. What this project 18 does is it expands to Human Resources, the Auditor's office, 19 and Voter Registration, the same capabilities. It increases 20 the licenses and upgrades to the newer version of the 21 software. My first phase of this project is to throw the 22 licensing in and get the training done for the departments. 23 The second phase, probably with next year's funding from the 24 -- from the funding sources I listed in my backup, to 25 actually do the scanning of, for example, Human Resources 3-8-10 86 1 records, which right now is estimated at about $26,000. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Were these -- were these licenses 3 and -- and what it would bring included in what was 4 anticipated in these capital outlay allocations that we made 5 for previous and -- and this latest one that we just did that 6 issue on? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the $10,500 that's in the 8 budget was initially allocated for Voter Registration -- for 9 Laserfiche with Voter Registration. And with the Auditor's 10 interest in the -- in the capability to go paperless, we're 11 expanding that capability. So, the 2008 capital training 12 budget has some remaining dollars, and the Auditor's agreed 13 that 8,307 -- about $8,307 can come from there for the 14 remainder of the licensing and training. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that has the Auditor, 16 Voter Registration, and Human Resources, correct? 17 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about Commissioners 19 Court? 20 MR. TROLINGER: Commissioners Court's already 21 online. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Just -- this updates the software 24 version for the Commissioners Court records. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 3-8-10 87 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- if we do this, what is 2 left to do to Laserfiche? 3 MR. TROLINGER: The next phase is actually not with 4 the Laserfiche itself, but with the -- the scanning and the 5 conversion of the old records, and we've got about $46,700 6 worth of -- worth of that work to do. What I'm looking at 7 right now, what I'm targeting the funds for that project to 8 come from is the records management. There's a county-wide 9 records management, and there's some other -- the County 10 Clerk's records management possibly we could use for funding 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, I have two questions. 13 One, why are you not talking about District Clerk? And -- 14 answer that. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. The District Clerk has an 16 existing system called PaperVision, which is similar to 17 Laserfiche, the difference being that the records are purely 18 archival. The vendor that provides PaperVision to us does 19 all the scanning, and just -- we just put the records into 20 that system, use it for look-up only. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MR. TROLINGER: It's not a real busy, active 23 system. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No printing? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Well, they print from it, 3-8-10 88 1 definitely. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the other question is, 3 you're -- you're using current and past year's capital 4 moneys. Past year's capital moneys? 5 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. The 2008 capital budget 6 included a training software line item, and that was -- that 7 has a remaining balance on it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2008 budget money is still 9 laying around somewhere? 10 MS. HYDE: Capital. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, there's still capital money left 12 in the 2008. For instance, the Ag Barn is still there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. Okay, I got it. 14 Capital, got it. 15 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much? 17 MS. HARGIS: Not a lot. Mostly the Ag Barn. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like maybe we could 19 buy something nice for the Sheriff. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure he probably thought of 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think his Christmas list 23 has already been fulfilled. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I bet. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can always add to it. 3-8-10 89 1 JUDGE TINLEY: So, we have those funds available, 2 Ms. Hargis, in those capital accounts within the I.T. -- 3 MS. HARGIS: In the I.T. area, yes, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. None of these will qualify 5 for the dedicated records accounts, County, District Clerk, 6 or combined, but maybe the next -- the scanning portion of it 7 would qualify and fall under that, and we can use those 8 dedicated funds. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like the J.P. technology 10 fund? 11 MS. HARGIS: Only J.P.'s can use that. 12 MR. TROLINGER: Well, I realize that the big 13 picture is that for the courts, including the J.P.'s, the 14 county courts, the district courts, the jail, the criminal 15 justice system, Odyssey provides integrated scanning 16 capability. This really fills in where we don't -- it's not 17 a criminal justice function, to scan the Auditor's records, 18 for example, the voter registration records. So, that's 19 where Laserfiche fills in -- fills in the gap that Odyssey 20 does not handle for criminal justice. So, if you want to 21 call it Kerr County paper -- the going paperless project, or 22 another fancy term, that's -- that's basically bottom line on 23 this project. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That sounds too much like 25 San Francisco or Austin or something like that. 3-8-10 90 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're asking for 2 approval for 8,306.65? 3 MR. TROLINGER: No, sir. The total cost is 4 $18,806.65. The I.T. budget this year from capital was 5 $10,500, and the 2008 capital training budget remaining was 6 $8,365. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the total you're 8 asking for, 18,000? 9 MR. TROLINGER: $18,806.65. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda 11 item. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: For the 18,806.65? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion and a second 16 for approval as indicated for that amount. Question or 17 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 18 your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 23 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 16. Ms. Hyde, 25 that also shows executive session, but my recollection is 3-8-10 91 1 we're talking about policy and we're not talking about 2 specific individuals, correct? 3 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 16, consider, discuss, 5 take appropriate action on personnel issue regarding 6 prescription plan modifications pertaining to the Kerr County 7 medical prescription plan. Is this a rerun of what we had 8 last go around as to that new tier of seven meds? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MS. HYDE: Y'all should have this backup already 12 included. And then the Judge was able to find -- they're 13 putting my new computer in along with the new phone system at 14 the same time, so I don't have a computer or a phone that's 15 working, sort of, kind of. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like something I'd 17 write. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Those are some of my relevant notes 19 there you're looking at. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: These are your notes? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Makes more sense, then. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to get an 24 interpreter? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I'll be happy to interpret. 3-8-10 92 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. HYDE: If you look at the one that just came 3 out with the notes, this is your -- this is what we had as of 4 December, and what the cost of the prescriptions were. As 5 most of y'all are aware, there are different levels of a 6 prescription, from a low dose to a high dose to what we call 7 a mixed cocktail, so that's why it has a low dose and a high 8 dose. I had Script Care rerun numbers for me, and that's 9 what this is. And what they did is they took a composite of 10 all costs for 2010, and this is what it is. I also have been 11 talked to about there might be some confusion as to some of 12 the discussions. I think -- I believe I've always said that 13 we are looking at therapeutic alternatives to these seven 14 drugs, but I think that some folks are thinking that that 15 means generic. We may or may not have a generic for these 16 seven. Therapeutic alternative is anything that's in 17 between. Where, you know, this is a Cadillac version of the 18 drug, and what we're asking people to look at is anything 19 from a Kia to a -- well, maybe this is more of a Lexus of the 20 drugs -- to a Cadillac, and then to a Lexus. And that's what 21 we're asking. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It's not the same chemical compound, 23 but it is designed to have the same therapeutic result? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. And in some cases, with my 25 favorite -- everyone knows my favorite is the purple pill. 3-8-10 93 1 It might be that we're asking for a therapeutic alternative. 2 The thing that this one has is it has a twofold benefit. 3 One, it can help to heal lesions in the esophagus, and two, 4 it helps with acid reflux. But for many years before that 5 pill came out, you just took two prescriptions, one that 6 helped you heal lesions and one that would stop acid reflux. 7 And, again, with therapeutic alternatives, that's what we're 8 talking about. I believe that a couple of the people -- a 9 couple of y'all on the Court have even gone to your own 10 doctors and discussed this, so you have a better 11 understanding of what we're -- what we're trying to do. Did 12 I answer your questions, Commissioner Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we -- an employee who 14 maybe currently has a prescription from their doctor for 15 Nexium -- that's your favorite, right, the purple pill? 16 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, the purple pill's my favorite. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it required then that 18 they go back to their doctor and have him or her rewrite the 19 prescription for one of these three? Or is that a change 20 they can effect with the pharmacist? 21 MS. HYDE: They can -- they can effect the change. 22 But because this has drawn out for so long, there's many 23 folks that have gotten a six-month prescription from their -- 24 from their physician. So, you know, if it would make it more 25 palatable to take this type of pill, then perhaps we say if 3-8-10 94 1 you have the prescription at this point, you let this 2 prescription run. That gives us time to make sure that all 3 the employees understand it one more time. And then, when 4 they go back to get a new prescription filled, then they're 5 told, "You need to go back to your physician and see what 6 else can you take, and let's do step therapy," which is the 7 alternative. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so I went to my 9 physician and ran this by him, and his only hangup was, you 10 know, like -- let's see, Lipitor. He prescribes me Lipitor, 11 and I say to him, "Look, you know, it's too expensive. Is 12 there a therapeutic alternative that you can prescribe?" He 13 doesn't necessarily know what that -- what those medications 14 are that are considered -- that are on our list here. And 15 neither does your doctor. So -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he does. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, he doesn't. And so what 18 the doctor requests is -- is that we provide this list to him 19 so he'll know. He'd be happy to do it, but he has to know 20 what our insurance company pays for. And why are you 21 frowning? Okay, your doctor knows. Your doctor is smarter 22 than my doctor. But -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Could be. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I think this is a good 25 thing. You know, you simply ask him -- you know, we take -- 3-8-10 95 1 he needs to have this list before he knows what to write. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree with that. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes -- I mean, I don't know 5 how he gets it. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I take it to him. I take it 7 to him. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: He can get it from the P.D.R. 9 MS. PIEPER: You can get out your cell phone and 10 you call Script Care; that's what I did. And then I hand it 11 to the doctor. 12 MS. HYDE: And then the third place is that John is 13 helping update the H.R. web site so that -- that they can 14 click on the web site and look. We can have a list of 15 partial drugs. Now, just so that, gentlemen, there is no 16 misunderstanding on this one, there is no way that we can 17 publish all the drugs; we're talking thousands and thousands. 18 But we can -- we can definitely put something out there of 19 drugs that we cover on this alternative tier. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These are the most 21 egregious in terms of price? 22 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, until they come off 23 the patent list. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The P.D.R. should also have a 25 cross-reference table, and -- 3-8-10 96 1 MS. HYDE: Right. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: -- if we got a doctor that doesn't 3 have a P.D.R., they're operating half informed. I don't know 4 of a single one. You -- you find one in every pharmacy. You 5 find one -- Sheriff's got one. Sheriff keeps one all the 6 time. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Several. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And that'll -- that will tell you -- 9 that lists every single drug from every manufacturer, has a 10 picture of it, tells you what the chemical compounds are, 11 tells you what the generic equivalents are, all that sort of 12 stuff. It's all delineated in there. 13 MS. HYDE: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the therapeutic 15 alternatives, our insurance -- are these actual numbers? 16 MS. HYDE: These are the numbers for January. It's 17 too soon for me to get the numbers for February. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you something. 19 Is the alternatives -- are these the only three -- all right, 20 let's stay with the Lipitor. The only three that's 21 available? 22 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's more? 24 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But our insurance -- well, 3-8-10 97 1 let me ask my question. Our insurance only covers these 2 three? 3 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Why did you -- did 5 you limit this to just three? 6 MS. HYDE: I didn't limit it. These are the 7 names -- the high level names of the therapeutic 8 alternatives. Because, for example, my favorite -- I'm going 9 to skip back to the purple pill. There are things like 10 Prevacid. Everyone's heard of Prevacid OTC. It's now OTC; 11 used to be Prevacid. When the patent came off, guess what? 12 Now it's over the counter. You've got Prilosec, and you've 13 got D's and P's and all sorts of stuff. So, there are other 14 drugs. So, when you look at the purple pill, that's the big 15 doctor name for the alternative, so when they're going to the 16 P.D.R. or they're looking, they're looking for this family of 17 pharmaceuticals. Does that make more sense? No? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of. Are there more? 19 MS. HYDE: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That our insurance -- 21 MS. HYDE: That our insurance pays for. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the amount that we pay 23 is this amount? 24 MS. HYDE: Or less. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the others that 3-8-10 98 1 are not listed here? 2 MS. HYDE: Or less. If it's Prilosec OTC or 3 Prevacid, that's over the counter; there is zero copay, and 4 it costs us 8 to 15 bucks. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: We pay for the name brands, but only 7 if there's been the review process and the physician, in 8 consultation with the patient, determines that the other 9 available alternatives, be they generic, therapeutic 10 equivalents, which we cover all of those too, is determined 11 not to be appropriate for this patient under those 12 circumstances, and therefore, we got to have the Lipitor or 13 we've got to have the Nexium. We cover both. The copay for 14 the named one there, the next number, the Lipitor, whatever, 15 is higher. That's the only difference. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in that case, Judge, a 17 patient/employee reviews that with his physician, and he 18 either agrees or disagrees. What documentation is that 19 employee required to bring back so as not to get a stop on 20 his next purchase? Who handles that? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some sort -- 22 MS. HYDE: I'm not sure I understand. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- the process where they 24 -- where they work through and try the alternatives. 25 MS. HYDE: Oh, the step therapy? Once they go 3-8-10 99 1 through the step therapy, then this last portion of that 2 would be a letter of medical necessity that's out for all 3 employees to utilize, and the doctor just signs it and comes 4 on back. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And brings it back to you? 6 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's probably a good reason 9 that this won't work, but why can't we just raise the copay 10 on these? 11 MS. HYDE: I was trying not to raise the copays. 12 I'm trying to do this in a logical, methodical method so that 13 I don't get two in the head or -- or in the chest for trying 14 to cut these drugs out. I'm getting frustrated because of 15 things like this, the coupons. So, in order to cover us, to 16 cover the coupons, now I'm looking at copays for the purple 17 pill, $115. What about those people that don't get a coupon? 18 See, the problem is we can't tell if they have a coupon or 19 not. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why -- I mean -- 21 MS. HYDE: So, are we going to hurt the employee 22 that perhaps needs this and has medical necessity, has gone 23 through the step therapy, and they don't get this little 24 coupon? I mean, I'm -- no offense, gentlemen. I'm not going 25 to try to find these coupons to give them to the employees, 3-8-10 100 1 'cause that's going to be counterproductive. But at the same 2 time, I don't want to harm the employees that actually need 3 this pill. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what -- where I'm trying 5 to go. I mean, and I'm probably not a good example, 'cause I 6 don't take anything -- anything. But -- but, you know, it 7 seems to me that if I were -- if I was prescribed Lipitor, 8 and I thought it was -- I got -- you know, the copay for that 9 was expensive, I'd go to my doctor and say, "Is there 10 anything else I can take?" I mean, I don't understand why -- 11 seems like we're making it overly complicated. Why don't we 12 just raise the copay? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, we can do that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We did that last time. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We can do that, or we can put it on 16 a percentage of copay; for example, a 40, 50 percent copay, 17 and -- and create a tremendous financial incentive for these 18 folks that are currently taking any of these listed 19 medications to try and find another option. That's obviously 20 a simpler solution. It really is, just by -- just by putting 21 a more onerous copay on those listed drugs. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would cause me to go 23 shopping, I can tell you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 3-8-10 101 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Here's the problem that we had, 3 though, Commissioner. In January, when we created this new 4 tier with the higher copay, we had -- correct me if my 5 numbers are wrong. My recollection is we had 14 of our 6 employees that were on these listed medications that suddenly 7 went to others that were therapeutic equivalent or generic. 8 When the -- when the vendors came out with those copay 9 coupons that you could redeem at the pharmacy as against 10 their medications, we lost half of those the next month. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And we end up getting to pay the big 13 part of the bill. The financial incentive that you create to 14 benefit your plan is, without any question, the most 15 effective. And -- and we need to do something to rein in 16 these costs so that we can continue to provide these benefits 17 to our employees. But you're right, Commissioner. Going a 18 much higher dollar copay, or just doing a percentage copay -- 19 I think I mentioned last go around that if we went a 20 50 percent copay on those, see what those drug companies 21 would do. Would they be willing to eat a big, big chunk of 22 their own -- their own cost? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They'd eat $50, but they 24 might not eat 150 or 200. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That would be simpler, no 3-8-10 102 1 question. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have to do something. We 3 have to try to do something to lower our cost on those 4 prescription drugs, because if we don't, we're going to wind 5 up taking them off the list, and it's going to hurt some 6 people that need those. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. My -- I'm 8 having a little bit of a problem of why -- I mean, we put 9 that -- our health insurance out there; we bid on that. We 10 made our decisions and all that. Why don't we do this -- 11 seems to me that we should do this next fall, rather than 12 keep changing and tinkering with it during the season. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what Rusty said. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or during the year. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But the problem is, you know, 16 we tried to raise the copay to where the people would be 17 discouraged from getting those higher dollar -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then the coupons came out. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then the doggone doctors 20 started giving coupons where it cost them the same to get 21 that as the generic or the therapeutic equivalent, whatever 22 you want to call it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: In the Sunday edition of the Express 24 News, -- 25 MS. HYDE: That's right. 3-8-10 103 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- there's probably a half-page ad. 2 Lipitor has a big -- big picture of a vendor's card there. 3 MS. HYDE: And the coupon. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, this is available from 5 your doctor, Lipitor. They're spending the bucks on it, 6 because they're making the bucks on it. But, unfortunately, 7 we're paying it. And we have the right to alter and amend 8 our plan as we see fit. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know we have the right to. 10 I'm just saying -- legal issue. It's a -- 11 MS. PIEPER: I don't think a lot of the employees 12 realize that when you get that coupon and you go to the 13 pharmacist, and your pharmacist says, "Oh, here's your 14 prescription, and it's going to cost you $5." But what they 15 don't realize is, then, because you have that card, then that 16 company's going to and try to collect back on our insurance. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't care. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they do. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They don't care. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they may care, but I 21 don't know that they know. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe they care more 23 about profits than they do about -- if they didn't, why would 24 they give coupons? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the drug companies, 3-8-10 104 1 yeah. I'm just talking about the pharmacist. He's going to 2 accept the coupon, and he says, "Your cost is now 5 bucks." 3 Right? And the rest of it's going to go through, zip, right 4 to our account. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The county insurance. 6 MS. PIEPER: Well, but the employee thinks that 7 this company that you got your card from, the employee thinks 8 that company is eating that, the rest of that cost. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 MS. PIEPER: But then, when I brought it to Eva's 11 attention, she said, "Oh, no, that's not what happened." 12 They come back on our insurance. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: They're just absorbing that part of 14 the copay that makes it more onerous on the employee. 15 MS. HYDE: Employer. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The big chunk of the dough is what 17 we end up with. 18 MS. PIEPER: Exactly. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The drug company makes their money. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And it's a one-time fix, 21 'cause they're not going to get that coupon again, more than 22 likely. 23 MS. PIEPER: Well, I think the coupon that I got 24 was good for a year. 25 MS. HYDE: It's good for a year. It's good for 12 3-8-10 105 1 months, the whole 12 months. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Dr. Hierholzer has a comment. 3 (Laughter.) 4 MS. HYDE: I was going -- I had something I was 5 asked to go on hold, so just one second, Sheriff. I'm going 6 to request that -- I know that the easy thing is just to 7 raise stuff or cut it out, but I think that we're trying to 8 educate people, and I think that -- I would appreciate it if 9 y'all would give me 60 more days and let me try one more time 10 to get this word out and get -- get more information out to 11 the employees and see if we can bring it down. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree with that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 15 MS. HYDE: And then -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: You're asking us to hold on this 17 item for now? 18 MS. HYDE: And then, at the end of 60 days, if I -- 19 I mean, I will try, and I'm going to request that I have a 20 partner to help me. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Trying to sucker me into this. 22 First, I may very well agree to help you with that, since I 23 have the majority of the employees working at my office. I 24 have no problem doing that. The one question I have on this, 25 how many of these drugs are coming off the protected or 3-8-10 106 1 whatever they call -- 2 MS. HYDE: We've only got two that are getting 3 close. The problem is -- well, Lipitor is one. Who was it 4 that was telling me Lipitor? They had also heard that 5 Lipitor is -- they're going to have a generic -- a generic 6 version of Lipitor; it's coming off. We also know that the 7 purple pill, they're already marketing for the upgrade to the 8 purple pill, so when it comes off, a new one's there. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Which the question I 10 have, then, with that -- and I think Eva's going the right 11 way. I think we all need to educate our employees and pretty 12 well insist that they visit with their doctors about giving 13 the therapeutic alternative or a generic. Because if you 14 just start limiting these seven pills, next year it's going 15 to be different ones. 16 MS. HYDE: You're darned tooting. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And then some of these are 18 going to go off, and you're going to get into a constant 19 battle of changing pills. When I think, just as a general 20 county policy or something, if it can be done with the health 21 care insurance, that we just request -- or insist on 22 educating the doctors, that they try and use the generic any 23 time we can possibly use it, or the therapeutic alternative. 24 MS. HYDE: That's what -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Instead of changing our plan 3-8-10 107 1 every time. 2 MS. HYDE: Here's what I already talked with a 3 couple of Court members about. It's difficult to get them 4 all, but just F.Y.I., this year I'm going to request that our 5 contract states, "You will take generic." I'm going to 6 request that. Generic is a must, and then we'll go from 7 there. So, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of discussion 8 when we get to that point later in the year, but I'm going to 9 request that it is generic. And there's -- there is 10 precedent upon precedent upon precedent for that. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. If it's available, that 12 there should -- 13 MS. HYDE: And if it isn't available, then guess 14 what? We take the next cheapest brand, and then we take the 15 next cheapest brand. But that's for later discussion. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, what you're asking, if I 17 understood you correctly, was for us to defer action on this 18 prescription drug issue that we've been wrassling with for 19 another 60 days? 20 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: To give you the opportunity to try 22 and engage in an educational effort with the employees, with 23 the assistance of the Sheriff, who I'm sure will cooperate to 24 the fullest extent. 25 MS. HYDE: And the County Clerk. 3-8-10 108 1 JUDGE TINLEY: And the County Clerk. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He volunteered; I heard him. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Wait, wait. 4 MS. HYDE: That's what he said. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And what I said is, because I 6 had the most -- I think every department head or elected 7 official should do it with their employees. 8 MS. HYDE: But if we start with your group and we 9 can get them to understand, then we have something we can go 10 to the other ones with. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's fine, but I'm not -- I 12 shouldn't have to go to Jannett's employees. She needs to go 13 to her own employees. 14 MS. HYDE: Oh, no, no, no. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll go to mine and get those 16 educated. I have no problem. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 18 MS. HYDE: Thank you, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That brings us to our timed item for 20 11:30. Item 18, consider, discuss, take appropriate action 21 regarding redistricting/precinct issues in Precinct 4. 22 Mr. Price? 23 MR. PRICE: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward and give us your name 25 and address and tell us your thoughts on this matter. 3-8-10 109 1 MR. PRICE: I'm James Price. I live at 210 2 Coultress Road, Upper Turtle Creek area, which is now I find 3 in Precinct 4. In December, I had a voter's registration 4 card that allowed me to vote in Precinct 1. But the reason I 5 bring this up is I've looked at Precinct 4, and it stretches 6 from the north of the county to the south of the county, and 7 all of those that are from about halfway in the precinct 8 south can't get to the voting place without driving at least 9 25 to 35 miles one way, because there's no road. I've talked 10 to a few of them. I haven't really got -- had time to go, 11 you know, really canvass, but the ones I've talked to, over 12 half of them say they're not going to vote if they have to 13 drive that far. Especially with today's economy and the 14 price of gas, it costs me $10 for me to come take -- once I 15 leave my house to go vote and come back home. Of course, if 16 I'm working in town, I have to come get my wife and do it; 17 now it's $15 to $18. 18 There's two things that I -- I never throw a 19 problem up that I don't throw up a possible solution. 20 There's two of them. There's one that doesn't cost a whole 21 lot of money, and there's one that would. The one that would 22 is to put just half a mile of road in here that we need 23 between the road on this side of the river and Ingram, out to 24 Upper Turtle Creek, and connect them. I had put that out 25 about 20 years ago; no one wanted to bite, even though I 3-8-10 110 1 could get someone at that time to donate the land. They 2 didn't want to do it because of the cost of building a road. 3 Now, the other one is -- could be simple. We could set up 4 another voting place within, and in conjunction with, one of 5 the other polling places out in that part of the county. It 6 wouldn't take but maybe one other extra person. Just have a 7 separate roll and a separate ballot box, and then people 8 wouldn't have to drive so far. Like I said, I'm not -- I'm 9 not trying to create problems, but luckily, this particular 10 election, when I ran into this, well, there wasn't any real 11 significant issues that were, you know, on the ballot box. 12 But we're coming into, you know, a large election this year. 13 And one of your -- one of your races was within 200 people. 14 We've got -- in this southern part of this particular 15 precinct, we've got over 1,000 people, I know, something like 16 that. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question, just to make sure I 18 heard you right. You said your voter's card changed? This 19 new card you got had a different precinct on it? 20 MR. PRICE: Yes, sir. In December it says Precinct 21 1, and the one I got in January says Precinct 4. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What caused that change? 23 MS. BOLIN: The cause is, we went on the with 24 State. Now we have to set up our road districts -- I'm 25 sorry, each individual road with a precinct, and the way that 3-8-10 111 1 this area is set out, we had manually gone in and corrected 2 everybody, and I say "corrected" loosely. We moved everybody 3 for that area into 107 so that they could vote at their local 4 polling place. But the way that the census boundaries are 5 drawn, this little area that he's talking about comes up like 6 this, and everybody on the left-hand side is in 4, but we 7 actually went in and put them in 1 so they'd be close to 8 their polling place, instead of having to go all the way 9 around to Ingram. And when the new cards came out, the state 10 system was set up the way that it's supposed to be, and they 11 got put back in 4. 12 MR. PRICE: I know y'all can't see this, but I'd 13 drawn a line across 4, and everything south of there has to 14 go all the way out to 16, all the way through Kerrville and 15 then all the way out 27 to Ingram to vote. 16 MS. BOLIN: And this is an issue we have every time 17 when -- that we do anything. I've done it -- this will be my 18 fourth time to re-precinct. And with this particular area, 19 because of the census block, that's what causes the problems 20 that we have, because when we re-precinct, they go by census 21 block. 22 MR. PRICE: That's one of the problems. The other 23 problem is, the people that do this, that set up these, do 24 not know, because in this part of the county, you can't find 25 but maybe 5 percent of the roads on any map where people 3-8-10 112 1 live. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll, we're going to 3 redistrict, and I think this time we're going to have a 4 better opportunity to fix those kind of things than we've 5 ever had. 6 MR. PRICE: Well, I just wanted to bring it, you 7 know, to your attention, that it really needs to be 8 addressed. The economic conditions that we're set in, most 9 of the people that live out there are retired, on Social 10 Security. If we want to get a good representation of people 11 voting -- and I've never -- this is the first time I haven't 12 voted in 50 years. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think it's -- like I 14 say, we're going to have an opportunity to fix it. It seems 15 it's been a problem that was -- you know, I wasn't here the 16 last time that there was redistricting done, but we have the 17 same existing problem in the Mountain Home area where some 18 people have to drive to Hunt to vote. 19 MR. PRICE: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it's just because of 21 those blocks that the government established years ago that 22 make no sense. 23 MR. PRICE: Well, like I said, being a layman, even 24 though I've run corporations and stuff and know how to do 25 business, been a real estate developer, the simple thing to 3-8-10 113 1 me would be to just set up, like, two voting places for a 2 district that covers from the south to the north, one in the 3 north and one in the south, and combine it with, say, 107. 4 Put another person in there, another -- another box. Or -- 5 if you need another box. Another register. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just for your information, I 7 mean, it doesn't change that totally, but you can't put 107 8 and 407 in the same -- you have to vote in your precinct, so 9 one has to vote in the one -- 10 MR. PRICE: Then put it in -- put them at the 11 old -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have -- 13 MR. PRICE: In Turtle Creek, put them there at the 14 old school building. We did it there for years, 20 years. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can add another one. It 16 can be done. 17 MR. PRICE: That's just a cheap, simple solution. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If he can get the free 19 right-of-way to go for that half a mile, I'll tell you what, 20 we'd be ready to do that. 21 MR. PRICE: Well, I had that pretty much set up 22 20-some years ago. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I sure wish you could set it 24 up today. That would solve a lot of problems. 25 MR. PRICE: All I have to do is find out who the 3-8-10 114 1 owners are. I could probably convince -- if y'all give me 2 some routes, I can go find out who the owners are. I mean, I 3 -- I'm a pretty good salesman. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your problem is -- I think each 5 precinct probably has something -- maybe not quite as bad. 6 Well, actually, I have one just as bad as yours, and it's a 7 hard problem. But it's -- you know, we just need to try to 8 do the best we can when we do the precinct boundaries, and 9 where we can maybe put an additional polling place. 10 MR. PRICE: Like I said, I just -- I never bring up 11 a problem that I don't put some kind of a solution out, and I 12 just want to bring it to your attention. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Price. 14 MR. PRICE: I thank you for your time. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. You had -- the 16 gentleman here, if you'll come forward, give us your name and 17 address, and tell us your thoughts on this. 18 MR. BEENE: I'm Jim Beene. I live at 177 19 Coultress; I'm right across the road from Mr. Price. And 20 I've been here seven years since I retired. I've never had a 21 voting problem till December. And we're exactly in the 22 opposite deal. He went from 4 to 1, and they put me from 1 23 to 4. And, like I said, we live across the road, so we came 24 to vote in December. You know, we're in Number 4 all of a 25 sudden, but our cards say 107. But they couldn't find it, 3-8-10 115 1 because we're on the Precinct 4 list. We spent an hour and a 2 half over here at Cailloux, and they made three or four calls 3 down here to the courthouse till they finally got this 4 resolved. And we've always voted. But that day, after an 5 hour and a half, we were about ready to say, you know, y'all 6 have got it. But I don't -- you know, they did promise the 7 card would be corrected, and would be back in 107, which it 8 was. We did get a card for January. But I don't know if 9 we're -- all of a sudden, we're going to have a problem each 10 time we go to vote now or not. And I don't have a solution 11 for shortening the distance, 'cause, you know, being in 1, 12 like we should be, you know, we, you know, could have been 13 for Precinct 1. But -- but I could understand Mr. Price's 14 problem, if he's across the road and, you know, goes to 4, I 15 grant you, that is a long drive away. That's not just so 16 much miles across. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've had some of these issues 18 where the middle of a road is a dividing line between two 19 different precincts, and sometimes it's confusing. 20 MR. BEENE: That seems to be ours right now. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to cure that with 22 Bear Creek on the redistricting, I think. Buster's going to 23 have it. 24 MR. BEENE: Buster will have the solution? Thank 25 you. 3-8-10 116 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's not solved next go around, 3 it's because Buster didn't fix it. 4 MR. BEENE: No problem. 5 MR. PRICE: I'll sic my wife on Buster. She grew 6 up with him. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yo no savvy. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 17, which 11 is to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to select 12 consultant for 2010 census redistricting and authorize County 13 Judge to sign contract for the same. As all of you recall, 14 we've had presentations from at least three separate 15 providers dealing with our redistricting issues that we have 16 every 10 years. It occurs to me that we need to do something 17 reasonably quick. You know, we can do it now or defer again. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm ready to rock and roll. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of these people say 21 that the preliminary work should have been done by January, 22 right? So we're running a little bit behind the curve, 23 maybe. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have one that's already 25 done it from last time. 3-8-10 117 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's the issue. You 2 know, if I make a motion to approve the Bickerstaff bunch, 3 it's because that preliminary work is done. They're ready to 4 -- they're ready to go, pull the trigger. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That being the case, then, 6 how much will that reduce their fee that they quote? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I asked him in private 8 that, I don't know that we got it on the record. I don't 9 even know how he answered my question, but there was -- there 10 was something -- they would do something. And, as I recall, 11 they were -- I've been through a couple of these things. 12 They were very honorable and very easy to work with, very 13 professional. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I enjoyed working with them, 16 actually. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. They did it 18 for us 10 years ago. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And did a good job. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The presentation they made 22 sure seemed like that would be a lot easier to work with. We 23 can correct some of these inequities that we've had problems 24 in past times when redistricting happened. We can sit down 25 and we can help draw those lines in our voting precincts. 3-8-10 118 1 That would make some difference about whether people have to 2 drive 30 miles to vote or whether they can drive a mile. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that, 'cause 4 they're going to bring the maps to put the census blocks and 5 all that stuff. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the biggest complaint 7 that I've gotten through any redistricting, is people say, 8 you know, "How dumb are you, anyway? You can't even see that 9 there's no road through there." That's really not our fault, 10 but we have -- I think we're going to be able to correct some 11 of that from what presentation they made to us. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Well, just -- you 13 know, it depends on several things. You know, it depends on 14 numbers, you know, minorities and that kind of thing. And 15 this particular issue of turtle -- Upper Turtle Creek, 16 Ingram, I mean, the school district's the same -- same way. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Been an issue for years. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But as you can see, people 19 are scrambling and fighting each other just to get into my 20 precinct. (Laughter.) 21 MR. PRICE: Not because of you. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They actually thought it was 23 your precinct, Mr. Williams. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No they didn't. 25 MS. BOLIN: One thing that I would request. During 3-8-10 119 1 the last redistricting, Jannett and I made a couple of trips 2 to Austin, because they worked so well with us. If you go 3 with someone besides Bickerstaff, I would request strongly, 4 please let them consult with us so that we can be on top of 5 this and try to get these issues straightened out, 'cause I 6 am fully aware of the issues. And I know one of the ones 7 that I heard, I've tried to work with the last time, and put 8 in over 1,000 comp hours trying to work with them, and they 9 didn't like anything that we put out. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 11 enter into a contract with Bickerstaff Heath Delgado Acosta, 12 LLP, for redistricting in 2011. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Authorize me to sign the contract 15 agreement, assuming it's approved by the County Attorney? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that motion. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 19 indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in 20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Okay. Let's 25 move to Section 4, if we might, payment of the bills. 3-8-10 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 4 bills. Question or discussion? Under nondepartmental on 5 Page 1, that's obviously a tax bill, a Harper ISD. Should we 6 be paying tax at all as a governmental entity? 7 MR. BOLLIER: Not property taxes, no. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: If I'm not mistaken, that's on the 9 Tatsch school house property. I believe I had a discussion 10 with Commissioner Oehler -- didn't we discuss that at one 11 point in time? That was a little acreage tract. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Talking about on Lower 13 Reservation? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe that's where it is, yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's the old teachers' 16 quarters for Reservation School. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MS. HARGIS: We have paid it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: It's on Tatsch Road. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Used to be Tatsch Road before 21 we had an out-of-county commissioner for a while. It has 22 been changed to Lower Reservation. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, I'd ask that that one be pulled. 24 MS. HARGIS: We actually have paid that in the 25 past. We did research that. We actually called about that 3-8-10 121 1 as well. You know, that one is -- is a tough one. You know, 2 we actually called Fredericksburg. We have paid that in the 3 past. We looked it up, and -- because my gut feeling was 4 that, you know, when I first saw the bill, we don't pay it, 5 but we have paid it. So I need, maybe, somebody's help with 6 knowing exactly what that property is, to talk to the 7 Appraisal District -- I mean to the taxing authority in 8 Fredericksburg. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that who Ms. Weinheimer 10 is, is the taxing authority in Fredericksburg? 11 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Harper ISD Tax Assessor. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm with the Judge. I 14 can't -- I mean, we don't pay taxes as a government entity. 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, that's my first inclination. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's don't do it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just don't pay it. I mean, 18 a whopping $11, but it's $11. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We shouldn't be paying it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should not have been. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with the Judge. I think 22 you ought to pull it. Don't worry about it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions on the bills? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, actually, I do, 25 sir. On page -- hold on just a minute, let me review this. 3-8-10 122 1 Oh, I know what my question is. On Page 6, about halfway 2 down, the Health and Emergency Services, on Child Service 3 Board, that's birthday gifts. But, like, Lamb, Darren and 4 Marcia, there's -- there's multiple names. What is that 5 about? I can see that we would send a birthday gift of $25 6 to a person named Lamb. 7 MS. HARGIS: Sometimes we have to write the checks 8 in the name of whoever their custodian is, not just them, so 9 it may be their parents. We don't -- we write the checks 10 according to what they send us from the -- from that service. 11 I'll check that one out. I haven't got a good answer. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: If there are two children, they each 13 ought to get a check. They should haven't to split that 14 little old meager check. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 16 MS. MABRY: I believe that's foster parents in that 17 case. 18 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sometimes the checks are made to 19 the foster parents. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lamb, Darren and Marcia, 22 that's the foster parents? 23 MS. HARGIS: Foster parents. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: The same as with the Garcias; it's the 3-8-10 123 1 same. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we don't write the check 3 to Mr. and Mrs. Bob Jones; we write it to Lamb, Darren and 4 Marcia? 5 MS. HARGIS: That's what -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the part I'm not 7 understanding, is the -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Darren and Marcia Lamb. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Darren and Marcia Lamb? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Are the foster parents. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bless their hearts. I have 12 always appreciated them. Okay, I'm there. That's fine. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Foster child is R.C. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, it's -- the 15 difficult part here is admitting that a guy from Comfort is 16 right. That's the hard part. (Laughter.) That's the hard 17 part. The blockhead and the whole deal, you know. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments on 19 the bills? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget -- well 25 we've also got the direct payables, too, right? 3-8-10 124 1 MS. HARGIS: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a separate motion for 3 the direct payables? 4 MS. HARGIS: I don't think we really need a second 5 motion for the direct payables, Judge, unless you want it 6 that way. It's just part of the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the bills. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: They're just classified differently. 9 Budget amendments? 10 MS. HARGIS: We do have a few. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: We have three budget amendment 12 requests. Did we not create a line item for Mountain Home 13 Volunteer Fire Department? 14 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. This one -- remember, they 15 didn't request their last year's amount in time, so we had 16 to -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So she took it out of -- paid 18 it out of this year's, then had to transfer money to cover. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, I'm good. Do I hear a 20 motion to approve the budget amendment -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- requests as summarized? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 25 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 3-8-10 125 1 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does pass. Late bills? 6 None? 7 MS. HARGIS: None. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Reports. I've been presented with 9 monthly reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; 10 Constable, Precinct 1; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; 11 County Clerk; Kerr County Payroll, February 2010; 12 Environmental Health; and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 1. 13 Do I hear a motion that those reports be approved as 14 presented? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that these 18 listed reports be approved as presented. Question or 19 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Okay. We 25 will move to reports from Commissioners in connection with 3-8-10 126 1 their liaison or committee assignments. Commissioner Oehler? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just been working with Animal 3 Control on the coyote policy, doing some of that sort of 4 stuff. And I guess that's really about all. There are other 5 things, but not worth mentioning. So -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. Got one here, 10 Judge. At the end of the monthly AACOG meeting -- board 11 meeting the other day last week, the Alamo Regional Rural 12 Planning Organization, affectionately known as ARRPO, not to 13 be confused with dog food -- (Laughter) -- met to discuss 14 TexDOT's inability to find money to do road projects. And 15 the district engineer was there, and we spent a good bit of 16 time listening to the trials and travails of AACOG -- of 17 TexDOT. And the purpose of his presentation was to tell us 18 to lower our expectations with respect to regional rural 19 planning, which is supposed to tie into the urban planning 20 for road transportation issues. So, while they have no money 21 essentially for really, really new projects, big projects, 22 unless the County wants to fund those up front and expect the 23 payback from TexDOT over a period of time, based on the 24 traffic count of a particular road -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think I'm out on this one, 3-8-10 127 1 Bill. Y'all go ahead. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a little far out, 3 Bill. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you think you could live 5 long enough to collect it back? I don't think so. There 6 seems not to be a likelihood. There are -- there is money, 7 however, for various and sundry enhancements, safety issues, 8 and as the Commissioner and I both know, what they call the 9 Main Street Project, actually -- or they'd already identified 10 all of your bridges, Hoot Owl and Camp Y.M.C.A., blah, blah, 11 blah. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, all those. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the one I have even at 14 Center Point underneath the dam, which is becoming somewhat 15 of a community issue at the moment. So, we'll have some 16 meetings like you had out in west Kerr. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good luck. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of which is to say, I'm 19 going to leave this big book here for you to digest and think 20 about, and if you have projects, seriously, that fall within 21 the framework of what TexDOT will -- will identify and fund 22 out of these various smaller pots, I'd like for you to let me 23 know what they are, because we're going to reconvene this 24 ARRPO meeting again at 2 o'clock on the 31st. So, that gives 25 time for everybody to think about it. I will put that -- 3-8-10 128 1 this item on the Court's agenda for the 22nd so that we can 2 talk about it, and if you have items that you want to have 3 considered in your precinct, in Kerr County, please let me 4 know and we'll take them up. Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look to get a farm-to market 6 road; we can -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't hear. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Farm-to-market road money; 10 maybe they can stick a couple of roads through. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple things. Well, like 12 connecting one that goes into Ingram? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will be in Austin this week 16 on subdivisions. They just sent me an e-mail talking about 17 working through lunch, to bring a sack lunch with me. I 18 thought you'd be interested in that. One thing -- this will 19 be on the agenda. I just wanted to let everyone know about 20 it a little bit. There is a property out in Hill Country 21 Ranch Estates that's for sale; it's kind of an odd-shaped 22 lot, lot of odd terrain on it, and there's -- they need a 23 waiver for the well setback off the front of the property. I 24 think it's more of a Headwaters issue, to me, but anyway, 25 they want us to concur with it. I said I don't have any 3-8-10 129 1 problem with it. I wouldn't imagine we would, but it will be 2 on the next agenda to take action. They want me to give them 3 some -- some heads up or down ahead of time. And there's a 4 50-foot setback right off the county right-of-way. They need 5 to move it to 40 feet so they can get the drilling rig out to 6 the location. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: As all of you are aware, we've got 10 the Sheriff's Office annex/Adult Probation building under 11 way. Mr. Odom and his fine people are doing the site work 12 out there. I have started to receive some expression of 13 interest from potential users or occupants of the unfinished 14 portion of that building, approximately 3,200 gross square 15 feet with a separate entrance on the east side of the 16 building. I don't know what the total interest is going to 17 be, but what I would be interested in receiving and having 18 some discussion about is who we might be wanting to have as 19 users of that particular space looking down the road. I 20 don't know that there's any absolute requirement we must do 21 it now. If -- if, however, we want to go ahead and -- and 22 finish it out, there's still time to do that by getting the 23 appropriate planning documentation done, and -- and working 24 with the contractor. Mainly, I'm just interested in who all 25 of you on the Court might think might be appropriate for 3-8-10 130 1 users of that space down the road at any time, whether it be 2 presently or a year or three or five years out. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much -- how much square 4 footage is still sitting there? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We got 3,200 square feet, and it is 6 designed in a manner that it would not necessarily have to be 7 all used by one particular user. It could be -- it could be 8 split out with common restrooms. We've -- we've got -- we're 9 going to have a plumbing rough-in there, a trough in the 10 middle of it so that there can be restrooms placed in there. 11 So, it could conceivably be two different users, or maybe 12 more than two, even, as far as that goes, if it's planned 13 correctly with -- with common restroom facilities. So, we've 14 got our options open, and I just need to know what -- if any 15 of you have any thinking about who may have an interest in 16 it, we need to be made aware of it. Just something to be 17 looking forward on. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that we need to 19 have some room out there to process those axis deer. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Keep your hands off, Buster. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The neighbors set up a trap 23 net; they're going to try and get rid of all our axis. 24 MS. WHITT: I was fixing say that I got a call on 25 that the other day. 3-8-10 131 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hope so. 2 MR. MOORE: How much are you going to get per 3 pound, Rusty? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Seems like I did see a net over 5 there at the southwest portion of -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Whelan's. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's on the Whelan property? 8 MS. WHITT: Yes. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unfortunately. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably trying to put some 11 on the ranch. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Figured it's cheaper than 13 buying it. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's been up about two, three 15 months now. Unfortunate, 'cause it is nice to see the axis 16 out there. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And your guys are baiting them off 18 out on the north end? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're thinking about putting 20 up a fence to keep them from going over to the net. But, way 21 it goes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can't catch them all in 24 one drop, I promise you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from County 3-8-10 132 1 Clerk? Tax Assessor? 2 MS. BOLIN: Just a quick update. We are a percent 3 and a half above collections from this time last year, 4 despite the economy. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. H.R.? 6 MS. HYDE: One thing. AirLIFE and Air Evac, that 7 was such a wonderful experience for me this year, and I 8 appreciate you gentlemen allowing me that opportunity. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're welcome. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any time. 11 MS. HYDE: We are all -- everyone that has -- let 12 me rephrase that, 'cause I'll get caught later. Everyone 13 that has gone through the payroll process, it is retro to 14 March 1 for both AirLIFE and Air Evac. They are supposed to 15 be sending out all your little goodies for your car and your 16 key chains and the house, and -- and you should be receiving 17 those in the next two weeks. If other people want to join at 18 a later time, they can. We can prorate it for the end of the 19 year on their cost. But it has to come through H.R. We're 20 not going to -- we're not going to validate anything online. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you have -- you have 23 authorized payment for both those people now? They've both 24 been paid for the ones that signed up? 25 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 3-8-10 133 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What type of response did 2 you get, Eva? 3 MS. HYDE: AirLIFE had 183 folks that signed up. 4 Air Evac had 73. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Significant difference in the -- 6 MS. HYDE: Significant difference. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the amount. 8 MS. HYDE: I think the significant difference -- I 9 mean, you gentlemen understand, $10 -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: No-brainer. 11 MS. HYDE: -- or $60. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Auditor? Animal Control? I.T.? 13 MR. TROLINGER: Briefly, sir. The task force on 14 Indigent Defense has accepted our preliminary request to be 15 considered for a grant for FY 2011. And working with Judge 16 Tinley, the District, County Court at Law Judges have all 17 signed off on this. It looks like -- like we're going to 18 proceed with a video teleconferencing project that's going to 19 be regional, the Hill Country Regional Court Video 20 Teleconferencing Project, exactly. Ms. Rosa Lavender helped 21 out quite a lot with getting this thing put in, and that's 22 actually her title. And probably the next one or two court 23 sessions, I'll come forward with the -- with the actual plan 24 on what we're going to do, but I just wanted to let you know 25 we're going to proceed with that, and it looks like it's 3-8-10 134 1 going to be about $150,000 to do all that, which the grant 2 will match 50 percent. Thanks. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. 4 Define "regional" for me. 5 MR. TROLINGER: The -- the counties, Mason, Menard, 6 McCullough, Kimble -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 198th. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 198th. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And 216th. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And 216th. 11 MR. TROLINGER: Looks like Gillespie and Bandera. 12 We're not 100 percent sure on Kendall, but I hope that we'll 13 be able -- if they're still in there with us, we'll get them 14 to participate. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this grant pays for 16 what? 17 MR. TROLINGER: The key piece of the video 18 teleconferencing is called a bridge. It's the piece that 19 lets us connect multiple sites together, and we do that here 20 at the -- at the courthouse. We'd connect, say, the -- this 21 courtroom with -- with Mason's courtroom so that they could 22 hold hearings. That's the expensive piece. And then the 23 less expensive piece is at each courtroom at the far end. At 24 Mason's courtroom, we'd provide them an all-in-one unit that 25 is actually the video teleconference unit that they would 3-8-10 135 1 use. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what about the 3 expenses after you get that established with the grant? Is 4 there an ongoing expense? 5 MR. TROLINGER: There is not. Once we install a 6 bridge, the -- we can host all that; we don't have to pay 7 another provider to -- to service that. We can do it 8 ourselves. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: There's not a broadband fee? 10 MR. TROLINGER: Well, it's the existing broadband 11 connections, I hope, that we can use at each -- at each 12 courthouse. Certainly, here. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will the taxpayers of Kerr 14 County be paying for anything in Menard County? 15 MR. TROLINGER: Not after year one. After -- this 16 grant is a single-year discretionary grant. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm really not 18 counting on the grant; that's kind of a separate issue to me. 19 But -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: That's just the initial equipment, 21 not any recurring charges, no, sir. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unless you do the signature -- 23 the online signing part of it. There would be a cost to 24 that. 25 MR. TROLINGER: That's a good point. There's 3-8-10 136 1 another piece that the Sheriff's arranged that goes with the 2 large courtroom project that integrates the courtrooms. 3 There's a notary -- I can't remember the exact term. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's where one person on one 5 end can actually sign, and it's automatically electronically 6 transmitted, even notarized, to the other end. So, if you're 7 doing that from Kerr County to Mason, there is, after the 8 initial deal, a per-page fee. It's so many cents a page. If 9 that were part of that, it's going to be part of the big 10 foundation that Kerr County has. If they want that, yeah, 11 they would be required to either reimburse or pay Kerr County 12 for those costs. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would the -- will the 14 District Judge be able to sit here and have hearings in 15 Menard? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Yes, and the defense lawyer, 17 rather than traveling to Menard County. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't care anything about 19 that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Prosecutor could be somewhere else. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And bill for it. 22 MR. TROLINGER: I think what's important is that 23 Ms. Lavender and Judge Tinley have been working on this for 24 quite a while, and now we've got the District Judges signed 25 on -- literally signed on to the project, and I think it's 3-8-10 137 1 going to happen. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As long as somebody else 3 pays for it, they're happy, aren't they? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, took six years to get 5 there. Court reporter, you have anything? (Laughter.) 6 Okay. Animal Control? 7 MS. WHITT: Actually, I do have something. Just 8 F.Y.I., Dr. Barbutti -- Dr. Autumn Barbutti in Hunt and 9 Animal Control are working together to try to put on a 10 low-cost vaccine clinic at the Doyle Community Center. 11 That's one of our big problem areas. So, once we get some 12 things lined up and some dates and all together, then I'll be 13 bringing it back to Commissioners Court to see if y'all would 14 approve reducing the registration fee to one dollar for that 15 day. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Very good. I wanted her to 18 tell that. I knew about it, but -- 19 MS. WHITT: Well, and I had talked to the Judge a 20 little bit about it. It was just a little late for me to put 21 it on this agenda. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a good thing to target 23 some of those areas that are problem areas. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, sure. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To reduce a lot of our 3-8-10 138 1 problems. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I guess we're through, then. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ahem. Yeah, you're 4 intentionally trying to skip over me. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I wouldn't do that, Rusty. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there something you had to say? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jeez, the abuse I put up with. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're carving into 10 somebody's lunch hour, Rusty, if you want to do that. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick. Jail population, 12 I didn't separate out which courts have what this time, but 13 unfortunately, we're back up to 160 this morning in custody. 14 But we are down to 18 on the female side. They have been 15 pushing those. Today is a big court day also for 198th and 16 that, so I don't know whether we're going to increase or 17 decrease by the end of the day, but it will be a -- a pretty 18 good court day. And also, going on as we speak is the 19 Sheriff's Office -- first time in four years, five years -- 20 is going through a state TCIC/NC audit as we go through this, 21 and we'll see how that turns out at the end of the day. So, 22 our dispatch and all our computer stuff is all being audited 23 today. We'll see. That's it, Judge. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could blame it on John. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It probably is his fault. And 3-8-10 139 1 I do not want your phone system at the Sheriff's office. 2 MS. HYDE: Oh, well -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not yet. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a remaining supply of tin 5 cans and wax string. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That may work better, from 7 what I hear. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We'll be adjourned. 9 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:11 p.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 12 13 STATE OF TEXAS | 14 COUNTY OF KERR | 15 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 16 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 17 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 18 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 19 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 11th day of March, 2010. 20 21 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 22 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter 24 25 3-8-10