1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11 1:00 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 13, 2010 2 PAGE Review and discuss FY 2010-11 Budgets and fiscal, 3 capital expenditure and personnel matters related thereto, for various county departments, including, 4 but not limited to the following departments: 5 198th District Attorney 3 6 216th District Attorney 7 7 City/County Joint Operations 33 8 198th Adult Probation -- 9 District Clerk 57 10 Commissioners' Court 69 11 County Judge 72 12 County Attorney 77 13 County Auditor 89 14 County Treasurer -- 15 Nondepartmental 96 16 County Court at Law 109 17 Human Resources 112 18 Tax Assessor/Elections 119 19 Capital Outlay 132 20 --- Adjourned 137 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, July 13, 2010, at 1:00 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I will now convene our workshop 8 scheduled to convene today, Tuesday, July 13th, 2010 at 9 1 p.m. It's a bit past that time now. It's a budget 10 workshop. First up, we have the 198th District Attorney's 11 office. I assume everyone has the budget. And I understand 12 that the District Attorney could not be with us today. He 13 indicated to me that you were coming over here; you got on 14 your bulletproof vest and all the other protective equipment 15 to present the budget; is that right? 16 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. It was very convenient that 17 he could be absent today. (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Both of them. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The budget does represent, for the 21 ensuing year, a 5 percent decrease in current budget. And I 22 knew this was coming, so I wasn't too concerned about this 23 particular budget. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I ask -- I got to put my 25 "boy dummy" hat on here. How -- how do I see that -- that 5 7-13-10 bwk 4 1 percent decrease? Where is that on this piece of paper? 2 MR. DEAN: I don't think it's on there, 3 Commissioner. But I believe last year's approved budget for 4 Kerr County, if I have my figures here correct -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 140 -- no, 210. 6 MS. HARGIS: 210. 7 MR. DEAN: $210,000. And I'm told that this 8 proposed budget tendered to you represents a 5 percent 9 reduction to Kerr County and the other four counties which 10 comprise the 198th district. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you can, can you 12 enlighten us about the -- the salaries that are stated in 13 Lines 1, 2, 3, 4? Do those represent current, or do those 14 represent -- they're represented in that as an increase. 15 MR. DEAN: I believe there's a slight increase in 16 those four personnel positions from the base salaries that 17 were there last year. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 19 MR. DEAN: I'm not sure the percent amount, 20 Commissioner Williams, but I just noticed it when I was 21 handed this last week, that there is a slight increase in 22 those four positions from their base salaries that were 23 presented last year. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Guess we have to do 25 a little research and figure out what that is. Thank you. 7-13-10 bwk 5 1 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. You might notice that the 2 commissioned officers are conspicuously absent from the 3 budget proposal, and it's Mr. Barton's intention to come to 4 the Court at a later date and present a budget from Asset 5 Forfeiture to pay those commission slots, which I believe is 6 required by C.C.P. Chapter 59. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're a commissioned 8 officer? 9 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The policeman out on the 11 road -- 12 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is a commissioned 14 officer. Are there others? 15 MR. DEAN: Todd Burdick. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Todd Burdick? 17 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. I think also, there's no -- 18 nothing in this budget presented to you represents anything 19 for vehicle maintenance or fuel cost, and those also are 20 intended -- he intends to request that they be paid from 21 Asset Forfeiture as well. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 MS. HARGIS: Judge? He's not listening. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Yes, ma'am? 25 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I just noticed, and 'cause I 7-13-10 bwk 6 1 just got this, that the Social Security is listed twice. And 2 we may need to raise this. 3 MR. DEAN: Retirement? 4 MS. HARGIS: I don't know yet. 5 MR. DEAN: Okay. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. And the health insurance number 7 probably will have to change, so that'll probably take up the 8 difference of the Social Security. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I noticed, just as a matter 10 of interest, that in the budget notes from last year, -- 11 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- you talk about Kerr 13 County's portion based on the case load, and that percentage 14 is represented to be 56.24 percent. I noted it's a little 15 higher this year. 16 MR. DEAN: Well, I asked him that exact question, 17 and -- and the bottom portion of the proposal you have, he 18 said that just represents Kerr County's portion of the total 19 budget. As opposed to last year, I think he presented to you 20 the actual number of cases filed per county and percentage. 21 And when we were discussing that, he told me that they remain 22 very much the same, and these figures very closely represent 23 the case load. Although the numbers you're actually seeing, 24 he says, represent Kerr County's -- like, it's 58.67 percent 25 represents Kerr County's portion of the total budget. 7-13-10 bwk 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which would suggest that 2 some of the other counties' percentage may have decreased. 3 MR. DEAN: And he told me that those -- each of 4 those represent a 5 percent decrease -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Decrease. 6 MR. DEAN: -- for those counties as well. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, my understanding was that he 8 has indicated to the county judges in each of the counties in 9 the district that the funding request for this year's budget 10 would be decreased in each of them by 5 percent. 11 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions of Mr. Dean? 14 MR. DEAN: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. If we have any more 16 that crop up, we'll be glad to holler at you. 17 MR. DEAN: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next we have the 216th 19 District Attorney, Mr. Curry. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's his number? 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's on Page 31. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 31. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 31. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, so part of this is we 25 moved the prosecutor that's going to the jail into his 7-13-10 bwk 8 1 budget? Is that what I'm -- what the footnote says? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Actually, we just took 3 it out this last year. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It says the additional 50,000 5 is for contract prosecutor at the jail. Move prosecutor to 6 new department, 437. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a current budget 8 note, or last year? 9 MS. MABRY: That would be the budget we're under 10 right now. That is the note for this budget. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's not a foot -- 12 that's not a budget note for next -- 13 MS. MABRY: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So -- okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I'm reading it, 16 Bruce, it says that we removed the prosecutor to the new 17 department. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 437, which would include the 20 -- I think the sitting judge out there, the prosecutor, and 21 some other stuff. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: After I reread it, I 23 understood it better. But -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I just -- y'all may have gotten 25 yours sooner. I did not receive my breakout until today. I 7-13-10 bwk 9 1 did have the lump sum that was requested as shown on Page -- 2 what is that, 51? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 31. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: 31. You don't have a breakout? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, all I've got is just what 6 it shows on here. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just the total. We didn't get 8 that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I assumed that the copy was 11 furnished to everybody. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Trying to keep us in the dark 13 again, Judge. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, like I say, this just 15 showed -- showed up on my doorstep today, which -- 16 MS. HARGIS: They all have that. Y'all have that, 17 that sheet. Yes, 83. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have that, unless 19 it's a different screen. 20 MS. MABRY: You'll have to pull up a different 21 report. This is Fund 10; it doesn't have all of them on it. 22 If you -- if you chose Fund 10, it's only Fund 10. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 24 MS. HARGIS: So if you pull up 83, it's a different 25 fund. 7-13-10 bwk 10 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 83? Page 83? 2 MS. HARGIS: No, it's Fund 83, so you'd have to get 3 out of 10 and go into 83. Do y'all want to do that, or do 4 y'all want a copy of that? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Make several of them. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you run to the 7 liquor store? 8 MS. MABRY: Can I? 9 MS. HYDE: Grey Goose. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the increase for? 11 Just -- I mean, it doesn't really say on here. $15,249 per 12 new numbers. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you looking at? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm looking on the -- on the 15 216th District Attorney. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Curry, in looking at the detail 18 that you furnished, it appears to me district-wide, your 19 budget requested for this year is approximately $59,000 over 20 last year's budget. Would that be correct? 555 to 614? 21 MR. CURRY: Yes, I believe that's right. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think we probably need to 23 make sure that the other gentlemen here have the details 24 before we get into that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None of those numbers show 7-13-10 bwk 11 1 up on our screens. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've not seen them yet. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, when Ms. Mabry brings you -- 4 MR. CURRY: Judge, are you looking at the current 5 budget, 555, and the administrative recommended, 614? Is 6 that the two columns you're looking at? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 8 MR. CURRY: Yes, that's right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. The one that -- that has 10 the detail on it shows '06-'07 actual; '07-'08, actual, 11 '08-'09 actual, and the current budget, and then it brings 12 forward -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. From last year to this 14 year, $125,000 difference, approximately. 24,5, what I'm 15 showing here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That's as to the Kerr County portion 17 only? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. The total budget 19 says it's 525,284. Our portion is 223,168, is what is 20 recommended on this -- what I'm looking at. 21 MS. HARGIS: One, two, three, four, five. This is 22 the breakdown just like Amos'. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ah. 24 MS. HARGIS: That already has in his budget the 25 increase of the health insurance, and that's one of the -- 7-13-10 bwk 12 1 and then the -- the judges upstairs wanted the expert witness 2 line item removed from theirs and put into the attorneys line 3 item, because they're the ones who call for the expert 4 witnesses. Not -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait, wait. Say that 6 again? 7 MS. HARGIS: If you'll look on the -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The judges recommended to 9 move it out of their budget into the D.A.'s budget because 10 the D.A.'s are the ones that -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Call for the expert witnesses. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's true? 13 MR. CURRY: It's never been that way. I don't have 14 any problem with that; it's just a change. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a historical number of 17 what was expended in the last few years historically for 18 expert witnesses? 19 MS. HARGIS: 15,000 is what we budgeted last year, 20 and I think we spent about 12 -- 12-something this year so 21 far. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So this year we've expended 23 about 12? 24 MS. HARGIS: Twelve. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-13-10 bwk 13 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So there's 15,000 of the 2 increase. It had a zero line item last year. 3 MS. HARGIS: If you'll look at the health 4 insurance, it's higher, and retirement is higher. Their 5 health insurance line item is really a huge jump, see? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Went from 50,000 to 71,4. 7 MS. HARGIS: So it's not -- it's not that he's 8 added anything. It's just that we've already included these 9 in his line items, because I have to send these out to the 10 other counties. So, I don't want to send them less; I'd 11 rather send them -- you know, they need the big number. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: So that's a $21,400 increase. 13 MS. HARGIS: The retirement has got what I think 14 it's going to be, which is 11.09. It could be less. Again, 15 I put the higher number in here. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: $2,200. 17 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there any salary 19 increases reflected in this? 20 MS. HARGIS: Yes, if you'll see my note down below. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 22 MS. HARGIS: My note down below. I put the 5 23 percent, because that's a recommendation. It's just a 24 recommendation. And, again, because I have to send these out 25 to the other counties, I put the recommendation that came 7-13-10 bwk 14 1 before y'all at the last workshop. It doesn't mean that he's 2 giving them; it just means that in order for those people to 3 budget properly, I have to tell them there could be a 5 4 percent increase. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That's for all personnel? 6 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you something 8 while we're talking about these footnotes. The car allowance 9 issue -- 10 MS. HARGIS: That's been there. It didn't change. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Let me ask my question, 12 please. 13 MS. HARGIS: Sorry. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The administration 15 recommended is 9,000, and then the footnote says that there 16 are two folks that are receiving 3,000. Three and three are 17 six. 18 MS. HARGIS: I don't see that on my footnote. Oh, 19 that's last year's. That's last year's. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is there another person 21 added in, or are we increasing the car allowance? 22 MS. HARGIS: There are three people getting the car 23 allowance. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MS. HARGIS: The Assistant D.A. and -- there's two 7-13-10 bwk 15 1 Assistant D.A.'s and the investigator. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's who gets the car allowance? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. For clarification, so that 5 the Court knows, the administration recommended column is -- 6 I had nothing to do with that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute, now. Wait a 8 minute. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I just saw this the first time 10 today, okay? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who might "administration" 12 be? The County Auditor, by any chance? Just help me 13 understand this. I know y'all are doing the right thing, but 14 just help me understand this car allowance thing. I don't 15 get a car allowance. I get it in my salary for travel. 16 MS. HARGIS: We gave them a car allowance which is 17 included in their salary. They do pay FICA and Social 18 Security withholding on that amount, yes, but we have it as a 19 separate line item for the other counties so that they can 20 see what they're paying for. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Thank you very much. 22 You're getting angry on me, and don't do that. 23 MS. HARGIS: It's been a strange morning. I have 24 got tons of paperwork I have to get to. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You ought to sit up here 7-13-10 bwk 16 1 with these guys. You think it's strange out there? Look at 2 this. (Laughter.) 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Works both ways, 4 Commissioner. 5 MS. HARGIS: No comment. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the requested is the same 7 as administration recommended, so now's your chance, Judge. 8 Requested column is the same. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you for pushing my 10 buttons. We come down to -- looks like bonds and insurance. 11 Out of $800 budgeted for this current year, you expended $71. 12 What's the justification for asking for another eight? 13 MR. CURRY: Trying to think. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 15 MR. CURRY: Trying to think what we use the bonds 16 for. The -- I think that's been the figure we've always 17 used. Right now I'm blank as to what we use that 800 for in 18 our -- I don't have the notary bond situation. I believe 19 that we're paying that. So, right off the top, Judge, I'm 20 not sure. It's just historically been, I think, what we've 21 kind of had come in. I don't know that we've expended all of 22 it. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I note back in prior years, 24 500, 500, 600, and then we've got 800 for this year. But 25 you've only -- 7-13-10 bwk 17 1 MR. CURRY: Maybe the notary bonds. That's the 2 only thing -- they just haven't been utilized thus far this 3 year, is all I can think, maybe. Or -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know how many notaries you 5 got, but unless you got -- 6 MR. CURRY: A bunch. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- 16 of them, why, it's not going 8 to add up to 800 bucks worth. If I annualize what you've 9 spent so far, it's a little over $100 for the year. 10 MR. CURRY: That's likely -- I think what that 11 is -- I'm trying to think back in mine. That's the insurance 12 on the premium for the contents of the building, and I just 13 haven't really -- I've paid that, but I haven't gotten the 14 reimbursement. That's what that is, you know, trying to 15 think back on it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 17 MR. CURRY: The equipment and things. We have 18 insurance. I paid that personally, and I have not sought 19 reimbursement. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause it's added to the fire and 21 extended coverage on the structure. 22 MR. CURRY: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MR. CURRY: I was thinking of bonds. 25 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, it's his commercial insurance. 7-13-10 bwk 18 1 It's the insurance. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're not showing you 3 expended anything for photocopy supplies this year, at least 4 through -- through -- this was July 30th; we can't hardly be 5 through there. June 30th. Is this a one-time-a-year order 6 or what? 7 MR. CURRY: Well, I don't think so, Judge. Jane 8 does that. I don't know why we haven't gotten any of -- 9 that's not a reimbursement. And I don't have a good answer 10 for that. It's $500? Is that what that was? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah. And prior years you 12 show as having expended nothing. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to have some kind 14 of expense in there. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Haven't had it for four years. 16 MR. CURRY: Yeah. Probably taking it out of the 17 office -- office supplies. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Office supplies? 19 MR. CURRY: That would be my guess, yeah. Again, 20 it's probably historical. We've always had that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a question about office 22 supplies, Bill? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have a question about that? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm just suggesting 7-13-10 bwk 19 1 that that 500 expenditure may be under office supplies 2 instead of being broken out separately. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We'll just zero out the 4 photocopy or eliminate the line item, one or the other. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Carry it under office supplies. 7 Coming down under your telephone, if we annualize what you 8 have spent to-date, it shows a little over $4,000. I 9 understand you've got the -- the new line over in Bandera, 10 but our -- our phone costs here locally are going down pretty 11 drastically as a result of our new system, and getting our -- 12 all of our -- even our satellite operations tied into it, and 13 that way all the long distance is covered too. Are you part 14 of -- are you scheduled to come on as a satellite operation 15 to our new phone system? 16 MR. CURRY: I don't believe so, Judge. We have -- 17 we use a lot of the cell phones. You know, that drops that 18 long distance down pretty far. We do use that some in the 19 land lines, but the -- you know, if 6,000 is -- we're not 20 using that, well, that's fine to reduce that. And that 21 was -- we have 5,500 in the last budget, and spent a portion 22 of that, so it may be just a high figure. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let's bring that to 4,200. 24 We'll annualize it and give you a little bit of float there. 25 No machine repairs this year, and it's been pretty minimum 7-13-10 bwk 20 1 before. I realize that's not a big number, but -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Conferences looks a little -- 3 you haven't spent it before. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think those prosecutors' 5 conferences come late in the year. August or September, as I 6 recall. 7 MR. CURRY: September, primarily. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And that's where they spend their 9 money. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't show that last year 11 they spent much. '08 and '09, they didn't spend hardly any. 12 This year, so far they haven't spent much. 2007-2008 actual 13 was 1,568. We probably don't want to mess with that one. 14 What about the contract labor services? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. That's -- that's a huge one, 16 what I'm looking at. That could be the balance of that 17 60,000 or 59,000. What's the rationale for the contract 18 labor? 19 MR. CURRY: Your Honor, that was one we talked 20 about last time, and I simply did not fill it. I haven't 21 found the right person in there. As a matter of fact, we 22 just, I think, did, and we've ended up with Mr. Behrens. 23 I've talked to him, and he has agreed to do that. This is 24 the position with the new -- when our new court came in, that 25 we've got a docket situation that we're trying to alleviate. 7-13-10 bwk 21 1 I think we discussed this last year, and my idea was to have 2 this contract person be able to come in and take up some of 3 that -- that problem that we're having with that docket call, 4 basically, and our pretrials, and doing some of the less 5 involved, shall we say -- some of the plea work and that type 6 thing to free up the other people, as opposed to getting a 7 new assistant, is what the idea was. But it requires 8 somebody that basically doesn't have a criminal practice. I 9 mean, to get someone to do that without conflict of being 10 that assistant and doing the prosecution was a little bit 11 difficult. And in checking around, I just haven't been able 12 to find that, but we finally came up with Mr. Behrens, who 13 was -- he thought about it and has agreed to do that, so -- 14 and he doesn't have that conflict, obviously. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've moved -- we've moved 16 that essentially to another entire budget of its own. 17 MR. CURRY: Right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: So we can eliminate that 25,000, 19 can't we? 20 MR. CURRY: Well, no, that's the jail. I'm 21 talking -- this is a different position. This is Assistant 22 D.A.; he would be in two positions. The jail has nothing to 23 do with what I'm talking about here. This is a 216th 24 assistant contract labor situation. The jail lawyer is for 25 both courts, in effect, anything that comes through there. 7-13-10 bwk 22 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I guess I'm confused now, 2 then. That's nothing new and unusual. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 4 MR. CURRY: This is just completely separate. This 5 person would be in the 216th District Court doing pretrial 6 work and doing this backup in these trials. And it has 7 nothing to do with the jail docket. These are just regular 8 docket stuff in the 216th. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember you talking about 10 it last year. I can't remember what we did, but I remember 11 the conversation. 12 MR. CURRY: I think it was funded; I just did not 13 fill that position. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why was it not filled? 15 MR. CURRY: I just couldn't find the right person, 16 in effect, to be honest. A couple of times we thought we had 17 it. My feeling was we had to get somebody that has no 18 conflict with the criminals. That requires a civil lawyer or 19 somebody -- and there's just not a lot of people in that 20 situation that we wanted to hire. Now, Mr. Behrens fits the 21 bill, and I wasn't -- I never even really pressed that on him 22 too hard, but he is available, and he just very recently, as 23 a matter of fact, agreed to do that. He does not have that 24 conflict, of course, because he, in effect, is doing the 25 prosecution work and is not doing any criminal defense work 7-13-10 bwk 23 1 at all, so he fits that bill. And so he has agreed to take 2 on that position. Not based on last year's budget. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's three lawyers in your 4 office -- three prosecutors, correct? 5 MR. CURRY: Correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: And you got one judge. Might have 7 two, depending on if you got a visiting judge on a particular 8 case. I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out why you 9 need an additional lawyer on a contract basis to -- to cover 10 dockets. 11 MR. CURRY: It has to do, Judge, with the way we're 12 doing the dockets now. These are -- I don't know if the 13 Court's familiar with this, but the way the current court is 14 run, the docket is -- we're going straight through the list, 15 and so if we have somebody fall through on the number one 16 case, we go to number two and then the number three, which 17 sounds great, but the preparation of that is a very difficult 18 thing when you -- when you have three lawyers that are doing 19 other stuff as well. And what we found is that if -- or the 20 idea here was that if we had an assistant who was designed 21 to, you know, have a case down here, that if the one that's 22 been worked up and ready to go falls through, then we have 23 somebody that can actually go in and have a case prepared 24 with the witnesses and all that. Trying to scurry around 25 putting a criminal case together for a jury is -- when you've 7-13-10 bwk 24 1 worked on one for two weeks getting ready, and then it folds, 2 as the Court knows, if you come in -- defendant comes in and 3 sees that jury, they sometimes decide they want the plea. 4 And then that's fine until you get to the second one, and the 5 victim has to basically put up with the prosecutors trying to 6 put together a case rapidly. And in some cases, that's fine. 7 In some cases, it isn't. And what we found was that if we -- 8 or what my idea was, if we had somebody who was in a position 9 to do that backup work, that I think would make that a much, 10 much more fluid and, I think, fair thing for the victims 11 involved in the cases. In addition, in the pretrials, under 12 the current system, we're tying up the lawyer on these -- the 13 pleas and things like that, and the idea was to speed that 14 up. We could free up some attorneys to do some other work 15 while we had someone up doing those -- the pleas, basically, 16 that wouldn't have to be involved in the actual -- or just a 17 warm body, so to speak, up there doing the pleas and freeing 18 up the other lawyers to do some other work. It's -- anyway, 19 that was the idea. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds to me like kind of a 21 contingency based upon a contingency. 22 MR. CURRY: The docket? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, throwing another -- another 24 prosecutor in to fill a breech. There's a good reason we 25 haven't done that before, in my mind. 7-13-10 bwk 25 1 MR. CURRY: That we haven't? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That we have not done it before. 3 MR. CURRY: Well, we did. I think it was approved 4 last year. I just didn't fill the slot. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, based on the results we got, I 6 think we made a mistake. 7 MR. CURRY: I'm sorry. The results? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Based on the results that I'm seeing 9 here, -- 10 MR. CURRY: Oh, just not filling it? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: -- nothing's happened, so maybe we 12 need -- these are tight times. We need to -- we need to cut 13 as much as we can, and this contingency based upon a 14 contingency, possibly -- we got things a lot more certain 15 than that that need coverage. I just -- I just don't see 16 where it's justified. Capital outlay, your notes say 17 something about an overhead projector? 18 MR. CURRY: I think we -- that was last year, 19 wasn't it? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Does that deal with last year? 21 MR. CURRY: I think so. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Then we got no capital 23 requirements for this year, then, right? 24 MR. CURRY: Nothing really specific, Judge. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I got a note as of yesterday 7-13-10 bwk 26 1 that you -- you got a letter from us about space in the new 2 building, which, of course, would eliminate eventually Line 3 Number 460. But I got a note that you were by yesterday; I 4 guess I was hearing juvenile cases. 5 MR. CURRY: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You don't want to pursue relocating 7 into the new building? 8 MR. CURRY: No, Your Honor. Decided to not do 9 that. Just decided not -- we're probably better off where we 10 were. And that -- the building, we talked -- actually, 11 frankly, we had talked some time ago about the basement and 12 that area, and this is a long time ago, and I think everybody 13 decided just logistically that the lack of windows and the 14 situation like that, we just, as a workplace, didn't 15 particularly care for that. And I didn't realize that the 16 new building didn't have that kind of a situation, and that 17 was really one of the factors that all of -- I mean, they're 18 there day in and day out. It'd be a chore to move and all 19 that. So, yeah, we decided to not do that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it was mentioned about 'cause 21 it didn't have any windows. Now, frankly, in dealing with 22 law enforcement types, the impression I get from those folks 23 is that they prefer not to have windows, for a number of 24 reasons. Security. They'd just as soon not see who's coming 25 and going. 7-13-10 bwk 27 1 MR. CURRY: Yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Be able to -- sometimes you got 3 folks that you're talking to that really don't want other 4 folks to know that they're talking to you, or vice-versa. 5 And -- but we had one -- one window in that building 6 originally and we eliminated that. 7 MR. CURRY: That's what I heard. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We want people with their head down 9 and ideas working, not looking out the window watching the 10 birdies and daydreaming. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can we go back to the 12 legal services? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I'm not -- I'm not 15 clear in my mind that we settled that. I hear you are saying 16 that you -- you don't think -- basically, you don't think 17 that they need the slot, and I hear him saying that he's 18 already hired somebody. 19 MR. CURRY: And that -- that was made very clear, 20 that if this went away, that, you know, that doesn't last. I 21 mean, obviously, I told the person that. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry, I did not hear that he 23 had actually tentatively made a deal to hire somebody. 24 MR. CURRY: Yes, Mr. Behrens. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Behrens. 7-13-10 bwk 28 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's local, right? Local 2 person? 3 MR. CURRY: Yes. He's the jail lawyer, yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: So, what you're proposing is to have 5 Mr. Behrens in two different capacities? 6 MR. CURRY: Correct. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: One handling -- I guess that's part 8 of where I got confused, that we were talking about the jail 9 docket. 10 MR. CURRY: Right. As I said, this would be purely 11 the 216th pretrial and that backup trial situation. That's 12 all this would be. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you've already cut a 14 deal with Mr. Behrens on this thing? With an agreement if we 15 whack it out, then he's gone? 16 MR. CURRY: Sure. Now -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'd be -- I mean, I'd 18 love to make a comment, but I don't have a clue what you're 19 talking about in the courtrooms. I mean, I just don't work 20 there, so how would I know? 21 MR. CURRY: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Ralph is doing a 23 fantastic job in the jail issue. I would -- I was pleasantly 24 surprised by that. 25 MR. CURRY: Thank you. I think so too. 7-13-10 bwk 29 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I'm -- I'm just not sure 2 that what essentially you're talking about is another, at a 3 minimum, halftime prosecutor. 4 MR. CURRY: In effect. I guess "halftime" would be 5 fair. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Half, two-thirds, whatever. Looking 7 at your salary structure, I just -- you know, you got three 8 of you there to cover. I'm having a hard time figuring out 9 why the three of you can't handle it. 10 MR. CURRY: Well, I understand the -- I think I 11 understand what you're saying, Judge. On paper, I understand 12 that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We obviously agreed to it 14 last year. Wonder what our thinking was there? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm thinking last year it may have 16 been for that jail docket. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 18 MS. HARGIS: No. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think so. No, I 20 think Bruce is telling us the story; that is the way I 21 remember it. And we -- we were real clear last year about 22 removing the jail docket out of Bruce's stuff. We were real 23 clear about that. And then he starts talking about this 24 other person. I remember the conversation. And maybe Bruce 25 and I are the only ones that remember it. 7-13-10 bwk 30 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Evidently it wasn't needed, 3 'cause there hasn't been anything expended out of that line 4 item. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm seeing 6 too. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- you know, you've got the 8 breakout here of -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I make a 10 recommendation? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's take it out. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds good to me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then he'll have to go 15 fire the guy and whatever they do. That's what you want to 16 do, isn't it? That's what I want to do. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm just not sure they can 18 justify another half -- at least halftime prosecutor, is 19 where I'm coming from. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's don't spend any more 21 time on it. Let's just whack it out and go on. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Considering it hasn't been 23 filled -- it was in there last year, hasn't been filled. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't fool with that. 7-13-10 bwk 31 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it's not there, he can't 2 fill it this year. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could sure use that extra 5 25,000 somewhere. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, we sure can. Any more 7 questions for Mr. Curry? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. The capital line that you 9 struck for 5,000 is their software maintenance contract, and 10 they -- it hasn't been paid this year because they've been -- 11 and that's what it is annually. It's their software 12 contract. 13 MR. CURRY: No, the capital outlay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why is that in capital 15 outlay? Software maintenance shouldn't be capital outlay, 16 should it? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two lines up is -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should be two lines up. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Somewhere up there. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The notes here say overhead 21 projector, but he said that was last year. 22 MS. HARGIS: Judge, those notes are all from last 23 year. They didn't delete like they should have. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 5,000 is from last 7-13-10 bwk 32 1 year, or that's current? 2 MS. HARGIS: The 5,000 for last year was for the 3 overhead projector. This year it's for software maintenance 4 contract. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then it needs to be moved 6 up two lines into that line item. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That particular software is not 8 coming through the I.T. Department? 9 MS. HARGIS: No. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Along with the rest of it? 11 MS. HARGIS: No, it's the same one like the County 12 Attorney's office has. It's a different one. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions? Do you 14 have any questions for us? 15 MR. CURRY: No, Your Honor. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 17 MR. CURRY: Thank you. 18 MS. HARGIS: There is one other thing, Judge. When 19 I originally did this spreadsheet, I -- I estimated 19 20 percent, because I didn't know at the time how much our 21 insurance was going to be, and so if -- if we do it based on 22 the figure that we were given, that would be 64,599, which is 23 a reduction from the 71 of about 5,000. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, that figure is 25 subject to adjustment in all budgets depending on what we 7-13-10 bwk 33 1 come out with, and the jury's still out on that, and will be 2 for a while. There's a lot of different things in play on 3 that. 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The next one is City/County, 6 and that -- that one essentially is the airport. Let me see 7 which -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where's that one? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She said 595. 10 MS. HARGIS: This thing. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10-595. 12 MS. HARGIS: That is basically the airport. And it 13 just changed, and I need to give y'all this spreadsheet, 14 because this is what is going to the City tonight, and I need 15 all of you -- let me see. One, two, three -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page? 17 MS. MABRY: I'll have to look. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm getting close. 19 JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm glad I wore my glasses for 20 this one. 21 MS. HARGIS: Sorry I couldn't get it any smaller. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 81. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 81. I was getting close. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, another day and a 7-13-10 bwk 34 1 half. What is this? Is this airport? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 4 MS. HARGIS: Okay. This is the budget that was 5 actually submitted to the Airport Board on Monday. I -- 6 actually, June the 14th, which is the column called Proposed 7 2011, right next to the green one. The city staff went 8 through the budget. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jeannie, let me comment on 10 this, 'cause there's -- I've met with staff since then. 11 MS. HARGIS: Oh, I -- this is as of this morning, 12 with the staff and with -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's irrelevant what 14 the city staff says about the airport budget. 15 MS. HARGIS: I do too, but I want you to look at 16 it, because we -- we did take out a few things and add a few 17 things because of our contract. If you'll look in the yellow 18 column, which is ours, I removed the $2,000, because that's 19 for uniforms. We've already got that included in our other 20 budget, because those are our employees that are going to be 21 wearing the uniforms, not the airport. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's in the management 23 contract. All those -- 24 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7-13-10 bwk 35 1 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The 836 and the 500 were to pay 2 the City of Kerrville, so we removed those. They were for 3 their maintenance for the garage, the city garage. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the one vehicle they 5 have. 6 MS. HARGIS: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They inadvertently left -- it 8 should be taken out. 9 MS. HARGIS: If you'll drop down to the next one, 10 which is legal fees, this is up to y'all. This is what 11 Mr. McKenzie would like to have. We currently have $2,500 in 12 legal fees. He wants 10,000. I took -- 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who does? 14 MS. HARGIS: The board. The Airport Board wants 15 $10,000 in legal fees. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For outside legal -- for 17 outside counsel to serve the board all the time. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: County Attorney has 20 indicated quite often there's conflicts of interest and he's 21 not going to do it. That became really evident when the City 22 Attorney finally weighed in on an issue and said he couldn't 23 rule because of potential conflict of interest, which made 24 Rob's point, that that Airport Board needs to have its own 25 outside counsel functioning for them at all times. 7-13-10 bwk 36 1 MS. HARGIS: So, the reason I reduced it by 2,500 2 is we have 2,500 in our contract, so they don't need the full 3 10. If they want 10, then we're going to remove the 2,500 we 4 already have. That leaves us 7,500 in that line item. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's probably the 6 better way to go; take it out of the services agreement and 7 let them add a line item for outside counsel so they know 8 what they're spending. 9 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but your point, Ms. Hargis, is 11 that in our proposal for the contract services, a component 12 of legal services was there was an allowance of $2,500 -- 13 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in there for them to obtain 15 outside counsel in various instances. So -- 16 MS. HARGIS: We're reducing -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, we got $2,500 included 18 within our agreement, and the balance of it, to be 10, should 19 be 7,500 in addition to the contract. 20 MS. HARGIS: Right, so I reduced it by 2,500. 21 Okay. The next -- the next item is special services, which I 22 discussed with Bruce. That really should be contingencies, 23 so I'm removing it here, and it's going to pick up in 24 contingencies, so it's going to come back. The 1,300 is for 25 network services. That was -- that's basically our I.T. 7-13-10 bwk 37 1 Department. We don't need that in there. That's a 2 duplication. And then the $4,000, they overstated their 3 workmen's comp by $4,000, so I'm removing that. And then if 4 you turn to the second page, you'll see that 30,000 coming 5 back. He currently has 15,000 as a contingency. He wants 30 6 more; he wants a total of 45. This is for engineering and so 7 forth. I think this is -- you know, may be a little high. 8 I'm just relaying what the Airport Board wants. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's high. We've 10 had discussions out there ad nauseam about what type of 11 engineering services they are going to routinely need over 12 the next year, and based on the past performance or the past 13 utilization, outside of the discussions we've had this past 14 year for the airport water improvement, everything else is 15 project-related. 16 MS. HARGIS: We will probably need some 17 engineering -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some, yes. 19 MS. HARGIS: -- this year, because the City did 20 engineer this program, and if they pull off as 21 inspectors-slash-engineers -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still part of the project. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bill the City back for part 24 of it, its part of that project. 25 MS. HARGIS: He also said there's another sign 7-13-10 bwk 38 1 that -- that's been requested. I certainly hope it's not as 2 expensive as the other one, but there's another sign that's 3 been proposed. I -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sign? 5 MS. HARGIS: Another sign. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know anything about 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think a small sign up there, 9 just to put a sign up. They're talking about putting signs 10 up so people know where buildings are, like road signs. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Internal, how to get on the 12 service road? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, road signs, as I 14 understand it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: Again, this is up to y'all. I'm just 17 relaying what he told me, "he" being the Airport Manager. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to go back to the 19 legal line again. Now, I see it zeroed out all the way up 20 until this year. Is that because the board is functioning 21 for the first year here? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the City's legal -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Provided it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- provided it as part of the 25 management contract. 7-13-10 bwk 39 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Now, so we're 2 arguing over 10,000 and 2,500. What did we arrive on? 75? 3 Or -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we've already -- we have 5 25 in the management -- we allocated in the management 6 contract. The Airport Board thinks it's not enough. You 7 know, I don't -- I don't know. It's kind of an unknown. 8 They'd like to have 10,000, but then it comes out of the 9 management contract. But we pay it either way, because it's 10 a -- it's a maintenance -- its an M & O type number. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are the -- what would 12 they use -- why would they need legal services? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Approval of form contracts for 14 leases. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So they have a staff person 16 that's an attorney? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They just hire outside counsel. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, a retainer basis. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's basically the way that 20 back in the old, old days, Buster, we had outside counsel for 21 civil work. And then, because of the potential conflict 22 between the Airport Board and the City and/or the County, the 23 County Attorney thinks that they should have outside legal 24 advice. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what number? 7-13-10 bwk 40 1 MS. HARGIS: A classic example of that occurred, 2 and Jonathan and I can both tell you, at the last meeting 3 when they were doing the bidding, and we had to stop and call 4 the City Attorney, because there's a lot of rules and 5 regulations, governmental rules and regulations that these 6 gentlemen are not necessarily familiar with. And we had to 7 stop the meeting and -- and Mike was able to help them with 8 that particular problem. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what number did we put 10 in? 11 MS. HARGIS: 10,000 total. That's what they get. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Total of 10. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Staying with the 10? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me ask, how often does 15 the Airport Board meet? Once a month? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once a month. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How long do those meetings 18 normally last? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two hours. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So if they felt like they 21 needed outside counsel, they could probably get somebody to 22 show up when they need them, and not at every meeting. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That's true. 24 MS. HARGIS: That's what they intend to do, I 25 think. 7-13-10 bwk 41 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then do the routine 2 scrutiny of the leases and bid documents and whatever, 3 whatever, whatever. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can take that by 5 whoever's office and let them review them there. And -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they can probably get 7 somebody -- I've spoken with the County Attorney at great 8 length about this. They can probably find somebody on a 9 retainer for 750, or no more than 1,000 a month to do what 10 they need done. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whether it's being at the 13 meeting or reviewing leases and documents that they would 14 take it to them. That may even be high. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would think so. Even if 16 they bill 250 an hour, if they went to a meeting, you know, 17 the whole -- went to every meeting every month and spent two 18 hours, it's kind of where we are. So -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: In answer to your question, 20 Commissioner Baldwin, as a separate budget item, legal 21 services, outside counsel, the airport budget would read 22 $7,500, because the additional 2,500 is included as an 23 allowance in our management services contract. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this legal advice -- 25 does that include Open Meetings, Open Records advice, all of 7-13-10 bwk 42 1 those things? 2 MS. HARGIS: It should, because that's part of 3 their problem. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Part of their problem. 5 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're a little new 7 at it, and they've got some people who've not been exposed 8 to -- at great length to Open Meetings and Open Records and 9 things of that nature, so they're learning. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad we got over that 11 and we don't stumble around with it at all. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that good? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't trample on the 14 state law at all. 15 MS. HARGIS: Okay. We -- if we can go back to the 16 contingency line item, Mr. Trolinger made me aware that 17 currently the City is providing GIS services for the airport. 18 We don't have those types of services, so they'll probably 19 have to pay for those. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't GIS built into the 21 management contract as an allowance? It is. 22 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Then -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You ought to know; you did the 24 specs. 25 MS. HARGIS: You wrote it. 7-13-10 bwk 43 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's there. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So what are y'all saying 4 now? 5 MS. HARGIS: So you want to reduce the contingency? 6 I mean, it's up to y'all. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the 30? 8 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. Well, it's actually 45. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thirty more. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, to me, you could -- a 11 contingency of, you know, 15 is probably adequate, maybe 20, 12 and maybe do a professional services line item for 10 in case 13 they need to go out and get something else, like they need 14 some engineering, need to hire the County Surveyor for some 15 stuff, which is feasible; give them a little bit of money in 16 those areas. But I don't know that they need that much 17 contingency. Was there a discussion when you talked to 18 Mr. Erwin about some of the specific line items in the 19 miscellaneous categories? 20 MS. HARGIS: No. No. He just -- you know, he had 21 eliminated the whole $30,000. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm talking about other 23 categories. 24 MS. HARGIS: No. No. The ones in the green 25 came -- they came directly from the City, so everything in 7-13-10 bwk 44 1 the green is -- they zeroed out. So, they zeroed out the 2 30,000, as you can see, so they didn't feel they needed that 3 line item at all. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think if you look, I 5 mean, one of the guides I look at on the special services, 6 that there has been -- where'd it go? Where'd special 7 services -- where was it originally? 8 MS. HARGIS: It's on the first page. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you look at special 10 services, historically it's gone from 31,000, 10,000, 50,000, 11 17,000, 5,000, 12,000. They've used that line item every 12 year since 2005. And this was not under the airport 13 management contract, evidently, 'cause it was a different 14 line item. Therefore, to me, there's obviously a reason that 15 they're spending money out of that line item beyond the 16 management contract, so I think it's reasonable to put money 17 in that special services line item, to me. And special 18 services, from what -- when I talked to Bruce, is somehow 19 what we call professional services; gives them some things to 20 do, so they need to hire somebody. And so I think they -- I 21 don't think we should zero that to zero. I think you put, 22 you know, maybe 15,000 in there, which is kind of an average 23 of what they've spent, and then put 15,000 into contingency, 24 leave it at that. 25 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 7-13-10 bwk 45 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's fine. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Special services to include 3 professional services -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is what you're saying? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 15,000, cause that's what 8 they've spent historically, so it doesn't make sense to zero 9 it out if they've been using the line item for services out 10 there. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 12 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the City's argument that it 14 should be part of the management contract, well, then why 15 wasn't it part of their management contract? If they want to 16 take that approach, they should refund us for the last six 17 years. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, didn't -- Jon, didn't 19 a lot of that have to do with -- with the engineering 20 oversight that, theoretically, they provided? I use the word 21 advisedly. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Theoretically. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. I didn't see the 25 time sheets for that. 7-13-10 bwk 46 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The last item that I'm showing 3 in here is an additional $25,000. That's our RAMP grant 4 portion, our RAMP grant portion which we have every year. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So the net changes of what I 7 originally put will actually be negative now, but it was 8 13,000. If you look at the little summary I have at the 9 lower left-hand corner, the airport budget, after removing 10 capital, was 599,579. If we add the 13 which I had 11 originally -- we have the salary on separate line items, 12 because we have to do that for our payroll purposes, so I 13 removed that line item, 'cause it's in there twice. And then 14 they -- looking at their revenue, because I don't have their 15 revenue projections, but looking at their revenue, they had 16 229 for last year, but they're not going to reach that. 200 17 is probably a good number, so that leaves us with our 18 contract plus the difference comes to 277, and that actually 19 will go down a little bit when I change the numbers that you 20 fixed. So, that's about, you know, 25, 30, maybe even a 21 40,000 decrease for the first year. And we don't know where 22 -- once we get -- have the full year of them by themselves, 23 with their new people and stuff, I think this budget will go 24 down, you know. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is the management 7-13-10 bwk 47 1 services agreement reflected, 158? 2 MS. HARGIS: The 158 is on the first page, towards 3 the bottom of the page. If you will go up from the bottom -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. I see it, okay. 5 All right. So, that's in the number that you have on your 6 recap. 7 MS. HARGIS: Right. And right under there is the 8 salary number. That's the reason I had to take it out, 9 'cause it's in there twice. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it. Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this format is the City's 12 format, so it will look more like our normal format in the 13 future, correct? 14 MS. HARGIS: This is the City's format that they 15 propose. What they did is they put it in Excel format. 16 We're changing the categories to more reflect what we're 17 accustomed to and putting them more -- like all professional 18 fees will be -- like legal, engineering will all be in one 19 place. Maintenance will be in one place. Supplies will be 20 in one place, so that we don't have to look all over the 21 board. We've actually already given about -- what, three, 22 four weeks ago, we gave Bruce a new chart of accounts to 23 review, and we've actually had a new income statement 24 designed for them. So -- and they'll have two funds. One 25 will be a capital fund, and then the other one will be their 7-13-10 bwk 48 1 M & O fund. 2 We did have some discussion as well this morning -- 3 it's been a busy morning on the airport -- with the City on 4 their numbers on the capital side after we were there 5 yesterday, because they had several mistakes in that as well. 6 They have, just within the last -- well, right before this 7 meeting started, sent me another one, because the numbers 8 were wrong. They placed the $75,000 that -- for the 9 engineering in that line item, and they said they had 10 $425,000, and they expended 71. They took back their money 11 out of the 350 so that they would have their money. 12 Yesterday -- there was a discussion yesterday about the 13 150,000. The $150,000 is money left over from capital 14 projects that we paid our 10 percent of a federal grant, so 15 under the F.A.A. rules and regulations, you can't defer those 16 funds to any other category except airport. In other words, 17 if they decided to give us 75 back and the City 75, we still 18 have to spend those funds on the airport. We were already 19 going to do that. The City kind of had a problem. So, what 20 the City came up with is, "We're going to pay our RAMP grant 21 in advance for the next three years." Because they couldn't 22 take the money back, so they're going to pay their 25,000 for 23 2011, 2012, and 2013 from their 75,000. However, the water 24 line -- they had already given their 350,000. We had not 25 given ours; we just did the late bill. They gave 350, so 7-13-10 bwk 49 1 they took back their $71,000 that was over and above the 277, 2 so we're all even on that accord. There is still some things 3 that I've asked them to research that came up yesterday, to 4 make sure that -- they have 524,000 shown for E.I.C. funds. 5 I questioned that a little bit, and so did one of the other 6 board members, so they're looking into that to make sure that 7 all those moneys are there. Hopefully, by the time October 1 8 gets rolled around, they will have this straightened out. 9 They actually even had our RAMP grant -- they had us paid in 10 full, and they still owed. Well, it was the reverse. They 11 can't seem to get them in the right line items. So, I have a 12 new one of those, but it's like an ongoing target this 13 morning for some reason. They are presenting this tonight. 14 The Airport Board will be present tonight. I assume I'm 15 going to go ahead and go to the meeting, because Mr. McKenzie 16 feels like the board's going to want their original budget. 17 And if we don't approve it and the City doesn't approve it, 18 the contract calls to revert back to -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last year's funds. 20 MS. HARGIS: -- last year's budget. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a good thing. 22 MS. HARGIS: No. So, at the next board meeting, 23 perhaps we need to call a special meeting of the board to 24 discuss these budget changes and make sure that they're on 25 board with them. We didn't change it as much as the City. 7-13-10 bwk 50 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. Okay. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: What -- Ms. Hargis, what -- what 3 incentive does the Airport Board have to approve these 4 adjustments to its budget that either the City's recommending 5 or that we're recommending? 6 MS. HARGIS: They come under the local board regs 7 under municipalities, and they -- the board itself can move 8 from line item to line item, you know, just like we do, with 9 approval, but they can't increase or decrease the budget 10 without our -- you know, without coming back to us. They 11 could move it from line item to line item, but my suggestion 12 has been to them, "You do it like we do. You present it to 13 the Airport Board on a monthly basis, and they make that 14 recommendation, so that it's done by the board." 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I guess my question is more they 16 presented a budget that requests -- 17 MS. HARGIS: 599. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Say again? 19 MS. HARGIS: 599. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. $600,000, roughly. 21 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: And we -- "we" being the City and 23 the County both -- want something less than that. And -- 24 MS. HARGIS: And I -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If we suggest to the board that they 7-13-10 bwk 51 1 need to reduce their numbers because of these discussions 2 like we've had here today, and like we've had with the City 3 and so forth, and they say, "No, we don't think those changes 4 ought to be made," and the option for the City and the County 5 is to merely say, "Well, we're not going to approve your 6 budget," doesn't that put them in better shape than where 7 they started out this year? 8 MS. HARGIS: Yes, because it's a higher budget. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd make a good lawyer. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MS. HARGIS: I believe that the Airport Board -- 13 this budget was prepared prior to all of our contract and 14 everything being submitted, and part of the numbers may be a 15 little bit high, because they're a little concerned that they 16 might not get some of the services that we don't have. We 17 don't have an engineer on staff, and they've been able to 18 call the City. Right or wrong, we don't have an inspection 19 staff, and so they're -- they've been with the City and been 20 run and operated by the City for many years, so it's a new 21 direction for them. And I think that the budget is probably 22 a little high, because they don't -- they're not sure what 23 they're going to spend. And so, because of that uncertainly 24 and a little bit of -- of hesitation on their part, I think 25 that's the reason why some of these numbers have a little 7-13-10 bwk 52 1 higher -- higher value. I don't -- you know, I think 2 reasonable people can sit down, and I think the board hearing 3 our recommendations, they know that, you know, if something 4 happens out there, we have to take care of it, and we will. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality is that the 6 change is only $13,864. 7 MS. HARGIS: The net, yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The net to what -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But much of that is mistakes. 10 I mean, the -- having the city garage or city parks repair to 11 the city garage and parks from the city garage, that was -- 12 that clearly should not have made sense to me, so the airport 13 budget had some mistakes in it. That's being corrected. 14 Some of the items are under the management contract, and so 15 they're covered there. So, I mean, I don't think the Airport 16 Board -- you know, I can't see them having a huge problem. 17 The only thing they may have some discussion on would be the 18 contingency items, and that's, you know, going down there. 19 But, you know, if they need something funded, it needs to be 20 funded, whether it's legal or professional services. And, 21 you know -- but I think we're not taking action. I mean, 22 really, the -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of in the City's 25 court -- City Council's court tonight as to whether they 7-13-10 bwk 53 1 don't approve it. If they don't approve it, then it's up -- 2 back to the Airport Board, and we haven't considered the 3 budget yet. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But they say if that 5 happens, then it gets hung out -- it's for them the same 6 thing as the Judge was making the point of for us. 7 They're -- except it gets complicated; we do the funding this 8 next budget year. I think if it's explained to the Airport 9 Board, which you and I and Ms. Hargis will probably do, that 10 the reality is that it's $13,000 difference, and we've 11 shifted some of these contingencies around; it makes sense. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see them having a 13 problem with it if the City is pretty much agreeable with 14 most of this. I mean, they shouldn't have a problem, 'cause 15 we're funding it. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 17 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I -- 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I would think so. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- 20 MS. HARGIS: I was going to give them these 21 changes, but I don't think it'll change on their agenda. But 22 if we're -- I told him I would bring a copy and send him a 23 copy, the financial director for the City, so he at least has 24 what recommendations we made today. Which are only 25 recommendations. And I'll try to discuss this with Bruce 7-13-10 bwk 54 1 prior to the meeting. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 3 Did -- did we move the legal service under contingency? 4 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, we didn't. We left that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We left it in -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's separate. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then my question is, what is 8 in contingency? Don't we need to clearly identify that? Or 9 is that just a nice little $30,000 pot to do with what we 10 want to? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 45, isn't it? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 30. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 30. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was it 30? We agreed on 30? 15 MS. HARGIS: No, 15 in contingencies and 15 under 16 professional. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. There's 45 somewhere, 18 Buster. 19 MS. HARGIS: Well, no, it's been reduced to 30. We 20 reduced it by 15,000. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it says 30. So, 22 what's in that? What's in that -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The contingency -- I think the 24 contingency, there's nothing designated in there. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's why it's a contingency; we 7-13-10 bwk 55 1 don't know. That's just in case. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now, it -- a contingency could 3 be -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you use it for the 5 engineering services? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be professional. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Professional services? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For that, yes. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: If you run short and you got your 10 contingency -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or if they need to, you know -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you don't think it's our 13 job to clarify that? Or earmark it, or -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be more our 15 job next year, after they've operated a year with the real 16 budget. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't 18 want them to think that, hey, here's 30,000 bucks. Let's go 19 to Villa Acuña for the annual -- whatever. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They do have planes out 21 there. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Poor choice of places. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Again, a poor 24 choice of places. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if you look at it, I 7-13-10 bwk 56 1 mean, that's really a little over 10 percent of what the 2 bottom line is, the way I look at it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the biggest fear they 4 had running through their mind is trying to talk the thing 5 through and develop it and seeing the change from the City 6 providing services to the County was, well, what happens if 7 we have all these engineering needs? The reality is what 8 Jonathan said; a year's experience is going to prove out it's 9 not going to happen, not like they anticipate. 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: Nothing like what it was. And 11 when you get into these T-hangars, stuff like that, all that 12 stuff can be pre-engineered. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think what they're going 14 to -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Built into the projects. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that they -- 17 that I can see us spending on engineering this year or the 18 following year, the T-hangars are going to need a little bit 19 of site work, some survey work, preliminary work done, and 20 that's what part of that would come out of. The other part 21 would be if -- you know, if a water line breaks in the -- you 22 know, just a regular repair. Air-conditioner goes out, some 23 of that type stuff. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if that water line was 25 built, it belongs to the City. 7-13-10 bwk 57 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, not in a building water 2 line. I mean, we have contingency in our budget for the 3 things that come up that we just don't know about. What that 4 should be, you know, it's hard to say, because there's no 5 real record from what -- how the City was handling it. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not fighting it that 7 much. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Judge found -- he found 10 some money in the previous budget. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Found another 13,000 here. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Have we wrung that one out? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Think so. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to the District Clerk. 15 450. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We skipped Adult Probation. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No budget submitted. 18 MS. UECKER: 10-450. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got it. 33. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think he said 33. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: 33, yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 33. 25 MS. UECKER: Looking at -- oh, go ahead. 7-13-10 bwk 58 1 JUDGE TINLEY: First adjustment I made was in 2 connection with the overtime. 3 MS. UECKER: Right, yeah. We -- you know, we never 4 know about that one. So -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm just going on what you did 6 this -- during this year, and so far you've expended -- 7 MS. UECKER: Right. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- not much more than 10 percent of 9 what you're allocated. I tried to go off that number. 10 MS. UECKER: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You know as well as I do that if it 12 hits the fan and you need some overtime hours, you just -- if 13 you can't find it someplace, you go to the Auditor, and we'll 14 try and find a place and take care of your needs. But we 15 need to -- we need to squeeze everywhere we can. 16 MS. UECKER: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Coming down under your bonds and 18 insurance, I think it is -- no, it's employee training. 19 MS. UECKER: It's employee training. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I had a question mark by bonds and 21 insurance. That's a pretty high number, based upon -- based 22 upon utilization up to this point. I don't know what your 23 policy maturity dates are. 24 MS. UECKER: September. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: September? 7-13-10 bwk 59 1 MS. UECKER: September. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 3 MS. UECKER: Same thing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I know in prior years, though, you 5 spent nearly all of that, but you'd only spent about $300. 6 MS. UECKER: Yeah, all September. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So the premiums that you have 8 programmed to pay for the balance of this budget year are 9 going to chew up what you got left in your 3,200? 10 MS. UECKER: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Under your training -- 12 MS. UECKER: All of that I will spend this year. 13 Last year, I had some situations where I couldn't send my 14 staff to certain training that I wanted to because of some 15 illness issues, but this year I'm hoping to almost spend all 16 of that in September. That's when our school is, because 17 that's when the District Judges' annual is, and that's when 18 the D.A.s' annual is, so we try to time that so we can train 19 our employees at that time. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That'll take care of -- 21 pretty well wipe out this year's budget, which is -- you got 22 a whole lot of room left in. Then you won't need that next 23 year, will you? 24 MS. UECKER: Well, that's an annual -- that's an 25 annual. That's September. It's not October; it's in 7-13-10 bwk 60 1 September. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't send them last year. 3 MS. UECKER: Well, I sent a couple last year, but I 4 didn't get -- because of the situation that I had with 5 somebody being sick, and I don't know what all happened, but 6 there were some issues where I couldn't send them. So that's 7 why it doesn't show that I used that last year. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Used about half of it year before, 9 and even less than that the year prior to that. 10 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And, you know, we can cut it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that required for the coming 12 budget year also? 13 MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: And that will also be required for 15 this coming budget year also? 16 MS. UECKER: Well, we can probably cut it some. 17 What I'm just saying is that most of what we spend on that is 18 in August and September. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me what you know, with a 20 reasonable amount of certainty, you're going to need for next 21 year. 22 MS. UECKER: For next year? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 24 MS. UECKER: Probably 1,200. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your postage that you have 7-13-10 bwk 61 1 plugged in for this year, you've only used about a third of 2 it thus far. 3 MS. UECKER: Well, I just requested about another 4 third of it, so -- 5 MS. HARGIS: She does it about three times a year. 6 MS. UECKER: Yeah, about three times a year. 7 MS. HARGIS: She does it about three times a year, 8 and the last time is probably the end of August. 9 MS. UECKER: And most of that goes to the jury 10 notices. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you -- if you do another 12 one -- you're only going to do two for this year, right? 13 MS. UECKER: No, because I hope to have that first 14 batch of prequalification letters sent out by then. And 15 that's kind of why I left that in there. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So you think 18 -- 17 MS. UECKER: We're pretty -- we've pretty much used 18 -- I mean, even 2008, we even went over that. So -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 MS. UECKER: Plus I think postage is going up 21 again, isn't it? 22 MS. HARGIS: Yeah, 46 cents. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 MS. UECKER: 46 cents. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: So you think 18 is an appropriate 7-13-10 bwk 62 1 number, then? 2 MS. UECKER: I think so. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come down to -- 4 MS. UECKER: Telephone, you reduced that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MS. UECKER: I mean, I have no idea what that's 7 going to be with the new -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We got the new system. I think 9 that's going to -- I didn't cut you much, so you ought to be 10 able to live with that. 11 MS. UECKER: Yeah. I don't know. I don't have a 12 clue what that's going to be. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We got you machine repair that you 14 haven't used any on. 15 MS. UECKER: Yeah. That one we never know. Now, I 16 don't care. That $200 is probably not going to fix anything, 17 but, you know -- (Laughter.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't break anything. 19 MS. UECKER: Huh? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't break anything. 21 MS. UECKER: If you take 700 out, you may as well 22 make it zero, 'cause I don't think 200 is going to make it 23 much. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I can handle that. Okay, what else? 25 MS. UECKER: The other one is the 10 -- the jury. 7-13-10 bwk 63 1 10-434. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Messing with my rat over 3 here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 24. 5 MS. UECKER: I did not have to use -- order any 6 jury cards this year. I am fixing to put in one humongous 7 order because we're down to the bare minimums of what we need 8 right now, plus I'm getting ready to order my cards for the 9 prequalification notices. Of course, that -- that'll come 10 out of the operating supplies. That also -- I think out of 11 the operating supplies, we also have other jury forms that we 12 get for the bailiff and name badges and batteries and some 13 other things. System -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like the jury fees are 15 up quite a bit. Of course, it looks like -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Used quite a bit, too. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: You amortize that, it comes out to 19 over 67,000 if you annualize it, so 70 is not an 20 inappropriate number. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: May have a little fudge in your 23 interpreters, but -- 24 MS. UECKER: And I don't know. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: -- not much. 7-13-10 bwk 64 1 MS. UECKER: I don't know what to do about those, 2 'cause they're using more and more of those, and they're -- 3 you know, I don't have a say in that. But the interpreters 4 they're using are out of San Antonio, and they're kind of 5 expensive, I think. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: You're being billed for half a day, 7 even if it's a 15-minute hearing? 8 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a reason that's not in the 10 respective District Court budgets? 11 MS. UECKER: Well, I think we both kind of work on 12 this together. I don't know -- it is an interpreter. I 13 don't know why it's in the jury fund. I have not a clue. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we charge some of those to the 15 Court-appointed services line item? 16 (Ms. Hargis shook her head.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Everything for interpreter goes 18 here? 19 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why is it in the jury, 22 though? See, that doesn't fit. 23 MS. UECKER: I don't know. I think that's -- I 24 don't know. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Linda, on that jury fees, 7-13-10 bwk 65 1 the net -- well, it's projected for next year at 70, and the 2 actual so far is -- projected year-end is 61,6. Your 3 footnote down here talks about $34 of every $40 fee we pay is 4 reimbursed by the State. My question, is that number 5 reflected -- the 61, is that a net number or gross number? 6 MS. HARGIS: Gross. 7 MS. UECKER: I think that's a gross number. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we do have 34 -- 9 whatever that percentage, 34, 40, percent coming back off 10 that number. 11 MS. UECKER: Right. But on the projected -- let's 12 see. Projected is 1,790. 190,000. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know how that number came to 14 be, 'cause that's an impossible number there. 15 MS. UECKER: I don't know. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: What I work off of is what you've 17 actually spent to-date -- 18 MS. UECKER: Okay. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and the number of months that 20 we're working from here, and I annualize from that. 21 MS. UECKER: Yeah. And I think this came up last 22 year at the time this $34 was enabled in September of last 23 year, I think. But the way the budget's set up, we can't 24 deduct 34 from it. That just goes back into -- goes back 25 into -- general fund? 7-13-10 bwk 66 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MS. UECKER: So that's why it's budgeted at the 4 full amount. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: That's somewhat akin to some of the 7 reimbursements in Indigent Health, some of the reimbursements 8 in court costs in mental health cases. We get some of that 9 back, but it doesn't flow back through that same budget. 10 MS. UECKER: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: So you got to use the gross number 12 as opposed to the net. 13 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm, yeah. And that's just like in 14 the -- the budget for postage, too. Another reason, you 15 know, that remains high is we're still bombarded with 16 passports. That passport postage to send it expedited is now 17 $20; it's right at $20 to send it expedited. 18 MS. UECKER: Question while you're on that. With 19 the new passport fees, has the -- has the amount to be 20 received by the servicing agent increased? 21 MS. UECKER: Hell, no. (Laughter.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: It all goes -- 23 MS. UECKER: We go round and round over that. They 24 can increase their own fees, but not the person that's 25 actually doing all the work. So don't get me started on that 7-13-10 bwk 67 1 one. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't mean to push any buttons. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you did. 4 MS. UECKER: Well, just so you know, they actually 5 reduced the passport agency's fee last year from 30 to 25, 6 and I refused to do it. I refused to go down. So, you know, 7 they hustled theirselves up here and wanted to know why I 8 wasn't complying with the statutes, and I just told them -- 9 first of all, I gave them my opinion of them reducing our 10 fee. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: You gave them your opinion? 12 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's unusual. 14 MS. UECKER: I did. And then they said, "Well, 15 we're going to -- we're just going to shut you down." And I 16 said, "You just go right ahead and do that. Here. Here it 17 is." "Oh, no. No, we don't want you to do that." And then 18 I said, "Well, I'm not going to reduce my fee from $30 to 19 $25, because there's a reasonable fee statute under 51.319 20 that I can charge any fee that I feel is reasonable for any 21 service, so you count it as reasonable fee." Well, they 22 still didn't like that, so they went up to the higher-ups, 23 and I wrote them a letter, and I haven't heard from them 24 since. So -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: How long ago was that? 7-13-10 bwk 68 1 MS. UECKER: That's been about a year. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're still doing 30? 3 MS. UECKER: Oh, yeah, by golly. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: And you get them up here from San 5 Antonio? 6 MS. UECKER: Absolutely. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, does the Post Office do 8 the -- 9 MS. UECKER: I understand they've started doing it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know the Comfort Post Office 11 does. 12 MS. UECKER: Yeah. They're doing anything they can 13 to generate funds. But if they come up here, we can get them 14 done a lot faster, and they have. I mean, we've gotten 15 Kendall County. But I think the word is out now that the 16 Comfort Post Office is doing them. We had a big run 17 yesterday because the fees increase today for passports. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on yours? 19 MS. UECKER: Let's see. Let me look once. I think 20 that's it. 21 MS. HARGIS: County Law Library. 22 MS. UECKER: Well, Law Library, I think, gets 23 pretty much -- 24 MS. MABRY: It's Fund 18. 25 MS. HARGIS: It's Fund 18. 7-13-10 bwk 69 1 MS. UECKER: Yeah. 18-655-90. I've got it, but I 2 don't have anything to say about it. We are -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We still buy pocket -- what 4 do you call it, pocket parts? 5 MS. UECKER: Only for the Black Statutes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only for the Black Statutes. 7 Everything else is computerized? 8 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We done with you? 10 MS. UECKER: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 12 MS. UECKER: Great. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioners Court, Page 6. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the only item I have -- 15 I can't remember if it goes here or in nondepartmental, but 16 the -- Region J is about to send out letters requesting 5,000 17 from the entities to cover administrative expenses for the -- 18 I think this will be the third time we've done it since it 19 started in '97, kind of as we need money to cover things that 20 are not covered by the State. We're requesting 5,000 from 21 City of Kerrville, 5,000 from Kerr County, 5,000 from the 22 City of Del Rio, 5,000 from Val Verde, and I think 3,000 from 23 Bandera. I know that Jody has those -- 24 MS. GRINSTEAD: Ready to go for Friday. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- ready to go in the mail as 7-13-10 bwk 70 1 soon as they're approved on Friday. So, I don't know where 2 that goes in here. I thought professional services -- we 3 used to have a line item called water development or 4 something like that. That's where it was, but I think we 5 consolidated that at one point into professional services, 6 but this really doesn't fit exactly into professional 7 services. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Jon, I -- the amount carried forward 9 for professional services was 30, and I actually increased 10 that by 5,000. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you're clairvoyant. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it will come out of 14 professional services, okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, on the 441, the C.P. 16 utilities, cut the telephone -- Jeannie, cut the telephone 17 portion out of that. I'll just use cell phone, save that 18 expense. Just keep the water and electricity there. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That's being reduced by how much? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I really don't know. 21 Ms. Hargis -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and Tess will have to 24 look that up. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okey-dokey. Let's go to County 7-13-10 bwk 71 1 Judge, which should be the very first one. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it? 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Page 5. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. Why are we 5 zeroing out out-of-county mileage? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't zero out out-of-county -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we did. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It is zeroed out. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me where that is. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the first -- 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Line 41 -- 475. You're right. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't zero that out. 13 MS. HARGIS: I got 800 on mine. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: No, it needs to be more than that. 15 There's already been 959 spent. Probably needs to be reduced 16 to about -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,500. 18 MS. HARGIS: 1,500 is what I see on mine. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 1,500. It was 12, and you raised it 20 to 1,500. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just doesn't show here on 22 what we've got. 23 MS. HARGIS: This printout was printed this 24 morning. 25 (Discussion off the record.) 7-13-10 bwk 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What are we settling on, 1,500? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, should cover it. It's 3 2,200 this year. 4 MS. HARGIS: We spent 918 to-date. You have four 5 months to go. Is that enough? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now we go to County Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next page. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Page ... 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Prior page. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five. Page 5. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Bonds and insurance. Come January, 15 there'll be new stuff that I'll have to plug in. I haven't 16 had anything for three years, but come January, I'll have to 17 have that, so I put in 250 there. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the bond side of it? 19 Or -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, bonds. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: New stuff on bonds? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, is that some new law 24 coming through that's -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No, but when I'm resworn in for a 7-13-10 bwk 73 1 new term. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Me too. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You are? Y'all are? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: If we win the election in November. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. That's what I 7 thought. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm being presumptuous. I 9 apologize. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Me too. I got a write-in 11 candidate out there chasing me. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know who he is. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does he own a beer joint? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know where he came 20 from. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Line 315. I've inserted 400 there. 22 That's 200 judicial -- Texas Judicial Academy, and same 23 amount to National Council of Juvenile/Family Law Judges. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You see? He put 25 out-of-county mileage in his budget, but conveniently, ours 7-13-10 bwk 74 1 dropped out. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to put some back 3 in. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put it back in. It was a 5 good catch, though. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that was a good catch. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About to go off that page. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I've overspent in -- or I will have 10 when it comes to me going to a conference later this month in 11 conferences, so I increased that to 15 from 12. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do you have to go 13 to? Two or three? Three? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I normally go to at least three. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on which ones have 16 pool tables. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You always have to go to 19 Lubbock, don't you? Is it Lubbock? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not always. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Not always. That's a week-long 23 booger. I don't always have to make that one, but I 24 generally have probate and -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 7-13-10 bwk 75 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and juvenile. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then one of ours. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, and maybe some on mental 4 health. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to go to that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, improve my mental health. 7 MS. HARGIS: So, are you changing that, or is that 8 enough? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's enough. 10 MS. HARGIS: Y'all are quiet. I'm not hearing. 11 Are we changing that line item? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- County Court. It's not listed 15 there, but it's -- that falls into my bailiwick. Let me see 16 what page we're on. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's 18. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Yep. There is a problem between 19 mental health and Court-appointed attorneys, and I think we 20 got that worked out today. We just don't know what the 21 numbers are. The Court-appointed attorney is ending up being 22 overspent because out-of-county mental health court costs are 23 being charged to that Court-appointed attorney budget. We're 24 going to separate that out, and once we see what the numbers 25 are for each of those, then we'll project what the right 7-13-10 bwk 76 1 number is for attorney's fees and for those Court-appointed 2 out-of-county mental health. Mental health up above, those 3 numbers should only be for what we pay to the J.P.'s for 4 mental health hearings. I think a lot of court costs are 5 ending up there too. We got to separate those out. We'll 6 make that adjustment accordingly. The only other thing in 7 that budget that needs to be noted is under Line 110. That 8 should be increased $2,500. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it, Judge? I'm 10 sorry. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Line 110. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That should be increased by $2,500 14 in order to handle the reporting on the Airport Board, since 15 we're taking that on. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Does that reflect 17 here in this increase? Did I see that on my -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like it does. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Did y'all add that in? I didn't 22 think so. 23 MS. HARGIS: No. 24 MS. HYDE: That's this year's. 25 MS. HARGIS: No, that -- the slight increase is 7-13-10 bwk 77 1 that -- is the 1.5 that we gave. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: So it's not there. 4 MS. HYDE: She got the increase last year because 5 of all the extra work on the rocket docket and going back and 6 forth and doing all that. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a separate budget. That's in 8 a separate budget. No, that's just the 1.5 there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're breaking the County. 10 Looks good. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, County Attorney. Page 41. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 41. 14 MR. HENNEKE: Gentlemen, good afternoon. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good afternoon. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, it is. 18 MR. HENNEKE: Commissioners, Judge, just a brief 19 overview again of the request for the County Attorney's 20 office. In reviewing the recommended numbers versus what was 21 requested, it looks like that's been accepted with just a few 22 minor modifications, taking into account some annual 23 adjustments, and I appreciate your consideration on that. As 24 you know, I think I sent each of you a letter just outlining 25 kind of what the County Attorney's office does. We still 7-13-10 bwk 78 1 project that for this coming year, the County Attorney's 2 office will generate close to $50,000 through the collection 3 of discovery fees from the defense attorneys, pretrial 4 diversion program, and the hot check fees that we collect, 5 where -- where those funds are turned over to the general 6 revenue. 7 The one other item -- I know that Mr. Emerson has 8 referenced this to the Court in past years, and I just want 9 to reiterate it. Currently, state law obligates the County 10 Attorney's office to be the prosecutor for Child Protective 11 Service cases. The state law allows for the Department of 12 Family and Protective Services to provide an attorney to 13 prosecute those cases if the department so chooses. Those 14 are the C.P.S. cases. Currently and in the past, C.P.S. has 15 their own attorney. They have their own attorneys that come 16 over here; they prosecute the cases, they handle the dockets, 17 and I do not have any indication whatsoever that that is or 18 could change. I have not heard anything. I do not 19 anticipate anything. But if, for whatever reason, the 20 department -- and it's their call -- should choose to cut the 21 funding for that attorney -- I know this next budget session 22 with Legislature is going to be very tight -- or cancels that 23 attorney coming out here, state law would require that I 24 absorb that docket, and that would require an immediate 25 creation of at least one attorney and one parallel position 7-13-10 bwk 79 1 to handle that case load. So, I don't think it's going to 2 happen. I don't know that there's anything out there, but 3 that still is always the -- the potential that could arise, 4 and it's just out of our -- out of our hands. 5 There is something that I did want to brainstorm 6 with you for a minute on. Commissioner Williams, Judge 7 Tinley, I know I've mentioned this to each of you, and 8 looking forward through -- and the reason I didn't include 9 this in the request is, one, because it's kind of been 10 evolving out the process, and two, in crafting the budget 11 request, I was looking at the annual operation costs of the 12 County Attorney's office, but what I'm seeing that's not 13 addressed in this budget is the related litigation and -- 14 litigation and kind of litigation-related expenses that are 15 related to defending the County and representing the County 16 in the myriad and wide-ranging of matters that the County 17 Attorney's office handles. One part of that is 18 investigation. The other prosecutorial offices here in Kerr 19 County have investigators on staff that assist those offices 20 in trial preparation and in investigating matters for trial. 21 Those are all criminal matters. The County Attorney's office 22 also have civil types of affairs where litigation is 23 threatened against the County. At times, I think it would be 24 useful if I could have a fund to draw upon, not to create a 25 staff position, because I don't want to make that expense, 7-13-10 bwk 80 1 but to be able to contract out. 2 I'll give you a couple of examples. I mean, we've 3 had several instances just since I've become County Attorney 4 where there's been threatened litigation against the County 5 arising over alleged disabilities or alleged worker's comp 6 claims. And, you know, there's sometimes a question as far 7 as whether or not those claims are -- are valid. And in 8 order to defend the County, at times it would be useful if I 9 could have the ability to contract with some -- you know, 10 some person to be able to investigate and look into that 11 situation to see if there's any evidence or any kind of 12 documentation that we could come up with that would refute 13 the allegations that are made out of there. But it would 14 probably be detrimental and counterproductive if, you know, 15 at each time before doing so, I had to come to this Court and 16 lay out in advance for everyone to know what was going on. 17 You know, I think it could potentially be embarrassing for 18 the person that had made the complaint, and I think it also 19 could be counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish 20 by doing something like that. 21 Likewise, at times there's going to be situations 22 arising where we need some outside expertise, and potentially 23 outside counsel to assist the County, and I think that I 24 can't project what that's going to be on a year-to-year 25 basis, but, you know, some situations are going to arise 7-13-10 bwk 81 1 where we're going to want some advice to bring in. Finally, 2 I think that there's also going to be litigation-related 3 expenses, such as taking depositions, paying for transcripts. 4 You know, hopefully not, but at times maybe we'd have to hire 5 an expert or something in addressing some kind of litigation 6 matter involved with the County, and that would be in 7 addition to -- to the investigation work that I believe that 8 we need to have, and also looking at the 15, 20, 25 jury 9 trials that we handle a year in the County Court at Law. So, 10 I apologize that I haven't put this in writing and laid this 11 out for you ahead of time, but it's -- this is my first 12 budget, and I wasn't sure how to address this kind of, you 13 know, budgetary item until I'd had some discussions. 14 And I don't know how much it's going to cost on a 15 year-to-year basis. We really are not going to see that 16 until we see some kind of historic trend. And I think that 17 many years it's going to vary. Some years we're going to 18 have some extraordinary legal situations. Other years, 19 nothing's going to go on. I hope we have more years of calm 20 than we do of turmoil. But I think, looking forward, to have 21 a number to be able to start collecting historic data, I 22 think $15,000 would be a good target to use for next year for 23 me to have to draw upon for litigation-related expenses. 24 It's not a line item that's addressed in the budget, and 25 certainly we can see if there's more need that arises once we 7-13-10 bwk 82 1 do that. Because it's my suspicion that if you look back 2 over the years -- and I have not run the data -- that this is 3 kind of an issue that's been addressed on a piecemeal basis, 4 where, you know, from time to time, when there's been one 5 item or another that's been requested, or there's been 6 something that's been allocated at that point in time. So, I 7 don't think that historically you would see a whole lot of 8 difference, but this just gives me the ability to have this 9 kind of resources on hand to, you know, move forward with 10 representation of Kerr County, the prosecution of the cases, 11 and also the -- the defense and projected and anticipated 12 defense of any kind of claims that we have here. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rob, do you see these as 14 all litigation-related, or do you see this line as including 15 funding for outside counsel such as what we approved 16 yesterday? And -- and/or what Commissioners Court has under 17 its professional services for things such as -- like a 18 special counsel, like water counsel that we talked about 19 yesterday as well? 20 MR. HENNEKE: I could see it makes sense. I think 21 it would be both. And without -- you know, not -- like I 22 said, being new to the budget process, I think if some of 23 those professional services that were set aside for outside 24 counsel, hiring or consultation or anything, you know, maybe 25 some of that could be moved over and funded as part of this 7-13-10 bwk 83 1 fund. You know, because it -- in those situations, it really 2 is me engaging with someone on an attorney-client basis to 3 come in to jointly represent Kerr County. So, I see the need 4 being equal. I see the need being funds needed to assist 5 with litigation expenses, whether it be investigation or 6 depositions or -- or the actual tangible litigation expense. 7 But I could also see -- we're already seeing several 8 situations this year where there is a need for outside 9 counsel expertise with -- with attorneys and firms that have 10 a specialty on just such a, you know, unique aspect of law 11 that will be of assistance to Kerr County. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problem with including 13 that type outside counsel in your budget would be that 14 typically in the past, the Commissioners Court has weighed in 15 on who, what, where, and when. 16 MR. HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that might not be the 18 case if it were in your budget. Correct or incorrect? 19 MR. HENNEKE: Well, I think my intent would be any 20 kind -- one, that those funds would be used very sparingly. 21 And, certainly, if there would ever be a need to engage any 22 outside counsel -- because it's my full intent as County 23 Attorney to represent the County in everything to the full 24 extent of my ability; that in the extraordinary situations 25 where it would be necessary to seek outside advice and 7-13-10 bwk 84 1 counsel, I would let you know that. We could have those -- 2 those discussions, because that would be such a unique and, 3 you know, important issue that I'd want your input, and I'd 4 want your advice in proceeding forward with that. We're not 5 talking about the everyday operation of the County Attorney's 6 office. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: I can certainly understand that you 8 would not want to come to this Court to seek authorization 9 and have us make a decision on the record to, for example, 10 authorize you to hire an investigator or spend funds for 11 investigation to investigate the validity of a worker's comp 12 claim, for example. 13 MR. HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or the Commissioners Court. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Or -- or, you know, because that's 16 like telegraphing to someone who may have a pending worker's 17 comp claim, "I got to be careful for a while." That 18 obviously is -- is -- you know, certainly, as Commissioner 19 Williams said, when it comes to outside counsel, I see that 20 as a whole different category. 21 MR. HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We know there's a legal situation 23 pending. Now, in looking at it for a number of years, 24 there's been attorney's fees that has been a part of your 25 budget, and that has generally been utilized, to my 7-13-10 bwk 85 1 knowledge, in the past for contract attorney's fees. I know 2 at one time, there was an attorney -- one attorney position 3 that wasn't filled in the office, and it was used to contract 4 with private counsel to perform specific functions, mental 5 health or things of that nature, where there was conflicts -- 6 prior representation by the County Attorney, for example, you 7 know, in a particular case, to handle those conflict-type 8 situations. That has traditionally been somewhere in the 9 $10,000 range, and you're only requesting $1,000 this year. 10 MR. HENNEKE: My understanding of the history, 11 Judge, is that prior to 2008, there was a lot more funds that 12 were allocated for the County Attorney, and using the 13 contract attorney positions for covering the State Hospital, 14 for covering J.P. court. But then, when this Court created 15 the third attorney position in the County Attorney's office, 16 that took away the need for so much outside counsel -- or 17 contract attorney work, and so in the past budget, that 18 number was slashed down to what it currently is. It did 19 spike a little bit this year; with the vacancy in the County 20 Attorney's position, it left only two attorneys in that 21 office, so there was more contract work that was done from 22 October through March, and we've ended all of that now that 23 we're back up to full strength. So, that has been used in 24 the past, but I guess the point I would make is that it is 25 not my intent that any of these moneys, or this fund, the 7-13-10 bwk 86 1 litigation expenses, would be for the daily operation of the 2 County Attorney's office. We're fully funded. We're fully 3 staffed. We can handle and we do handle all of that. It's 4 in, you know, private investigation or court reporter's fees 5 for depositions or transcripts, the extra -- extraordinary 6 things that don't come up on an annual, regular basis. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm suggesting is, if we were 8 to take this particular line item, for example, and 9 denominate it "contract services," and restore, say, the 10 $10,000 in there, that could cover a whole latitude of 11 things. And then in instances where -- where maybe there's a 12 need for outside counsel in particular instances, that will 13 be something that we could talk about in the clear. Or an 14 appropriate case, if it falls under an exception, we can talk 15 about it in executive session, but still, if we have to take 16 particular enabling action, it would have to be in open 17 court. But I think if we were to just do a contract services 18 and place some funds at your disposal for that, with the 19 understanding that outside counsel would not be included 20 within that, wouldn't that give us a pretty good way to 21 launch this thing? 22 MR. HENNEKE: I concur. I think that's a great 23 idea, Judge. And as I said, this has kind of been an 24 evolving process as more situations have arisen where, you 25 know, it's kind of morphed into this idea that I brought 7-13-10 bwk 87 1 before you today. I think that would be a great way to 2 proceed. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're saying, Judge, that 4 we put all those things under one line, except for outside 5 counsel? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And raise it back up to the 8 10,000. And then how much do you put in outside counsel? 9 MR. HENNEKE: Outside counsel would stay the 10 professional services that you have under the Commissioners 11 Court budget. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: He'd have to come to the Court. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what about -- I 16 don't think -- I don't know if I understand "investigator." 17 I mean, I know Kyle Dean-type folks, but they don't -- you 18 don't have a whole lot of those guys running around. But I 19 guess there -- 20 MR. HENNEKE: I don't have any in my office, in the 21 County Attorney's office. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. 23 I'm talking about out in the community that you can go hire. 24 Are you -- what do you do in a case like that? Are there 25 people sitting around in an office somewhere that are 7-13-10 bwk 88 1 investigators that you can go contract with? 2 MR. HENNEKE: There's several in this community 3 that I know of that I have an interest in speaking with if -- 4 if the Court approves this. Several that I know that are 5 qualified that are former law enforcement. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. You don't have to -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I got a suggestion about 8 where to maybe find a little bit of the money. I think we 9 have one person in his office that's retiring, has been here 10 for a long time, and that salary would seem to be higher than 11 what he would hire a new person in at. 12 MR. HENNEKE: I agree. And the posted salary for 13 the replacement for Barbara -- I don't think we can replace 14 Barbara, but I'm going to do the best that I can -- is going 15 to be several thousand dollars less. Of course, Barbara has 16 quite a bit of seniority and experience, and I'm not looking 17 to fill that position at the same salary. I'm looking to 18 fill it at considerably less. So -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 20 MR. HENNEKE: -- that would -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That will absorb some of that. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's a little bit of it. 23 MR. HENNEKE: Just to make clear, though, of 24 course, in the rare occasion of all of us got wiped out by 25 the flu one day, an emergency basis, we did have to hire a 7-13-10 bwk 89 1 contract attorney to go out to the State Hospital, you know, 2 that's why I think $1,000 was budgeted for the coming year. 3 And if that was still part of the 10, then that wouldn't be 4 part of the outside counsel that you're referring to, Judge. 5 With the -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. No, a temporary -- 7 temporary, to handle a docket for a week or something, no. 8 That -- when you consider outside counsel, you're talking 9 about a particular case and for a particular reason, and that 10 lawyer's particular ability or expertise or capabilities. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, you're about to wear 12 your court reporter out here, aren't you? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for mentioning that. You 14 got any fingernails left? Let's save what you got, okay? 15 Thank you for mentioning that, Bruce. Let's take -- let's 16 take a little break here. 17 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, Commissioners, thank you. 18 (Recess taken from 3:28 p.m. to 3:44 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we get started again. 21 We're with the County Auditor at this point in time. That's 22 the next one up. I guess the first question is, how do we 23 get from 76,4 to 81,350? 24 MS. HARGIS: I'm going to ask the District Judge, 25 and I don't know if I'll be approved, for an increase for the 7-13-10 bwk 90 1 airport and for 198th. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is 198th -- that's something 3 new? 4 MS. HARGIS: I only had to be responsible for one 5 D.A. in the past; now I'll be responsible for both. The 6 Junction office was taking care of the -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I hear what you're 8 saying. 9 MS. HARGIS: So we will be doing their books. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about D.A., 11 not talking about courts. 12 MS. HARGIS: No. We'll be doing all of his books, 13 all of his checks, all of his reporting requirements and so 14 forth. And the airport requires me attending that meeting 15 and keeping pretty much -- you know, coordinating a whole lot 16 of those efforts, which I've already been doing. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, these numbers from 76 to 18 81, that's strictly a salary increase? 19 MS. HARGIS: For the 198th and for the -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, you don't have to 21 explain anything. It's a salary increase. It doesn't have 22 anything to do with the longevity or an educational thing. 23 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's totally up to the 25 District Judge, up to 5 percent. 7-13-10 bwk 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Okay. I guess the employee 2 training -- 3 MS. HARGIS: You cut that, but I increased it 4 because I had one that did not go this year, and I have to 5 have all of them go. And we were fortunate this year with -- 6 a lot of ours come out in September and August, 'cause that's 7 when I have to send in -- that's why you're not seeing them. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Late like the judges and 9 the prosecutors? 10 MS. HARGIS: I have September and October, and the 11 dues and all has to be paid in September. And on mine, I 12 have two big conferences coming up. And then -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And it will be the same thing for 14 next year? 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes. And then Tess is coming with me 16 on some of these, and she's actually staying with relatives 17 so we could fit both of us in. So -- and then we had the 18 certification, and I think Tracy only has to go once a year 19 now. But I'm going to -- I'm hopefully going to find a class 20 for both my -- for Tracy, for Mindy, a couple of others that 21 I would like to send, that we could send to take Accounting 22 101. And we're trying to find the class, so that I would 23 include tuition and books. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to restore that one, then? 25 MS. HARGIS: Yes, please. And -- and, really, 7-13-10 bwk 92 1 under our rules, under the A.I.C.P.A. rules, if they audit, 2 they have to have as much education -- that counts towards -- 3 if she passes the exam, she has to have the same number of 4 hours that I do, which is 40 hours. And the two 5 conferences -- the two TACA conferences cover hers. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's talk about your postage 7 here again. I'm -- 8 MS. HARGIS: The postage you can go down on. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I cut that in half down to 10 750. All the rest of them seemed to annualize pretty good, 11 to be well accounted for. I get down to operating equipment; 12 you haven't used anything there, so I cut that one in half. 13 MS. HARGIS: That one printer that we have, we 14 haven't spent anything this year on it, but we've spent at 15 least 250 on it twice. It -- and it's a really, really good 16 printer. You can't get them any more, so we just get it 17 fixed. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Which printer are we talking about? 19 MS. HARGIS: A 3600, the same one that Mindy has. 20 And the reason we use that one is because it's sending the 21 different -- the check -- well, actually, we have two. Our 22 printers are really old. They've been -- the one 3600 is the 23 same as Mindy's downstairs, but then we have another one that 24 she sends all the checks up on, and that's a really old one. 25 But it takes a lot of -- so those both, and then the 7-13-10 bwk 93 1 typewriter went out on us, so we're trying to hold onto our 2 old equipment, because it's good stuff, better than what we 3 can buy. We bought some newer printers, but they don't have 4 near the capacity and the speed that the other -- the old 5 ones do, so we try not to. I open them up, try fixing them 6 myself as much as I can. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like in -- 8 MS. HARGIS: But we'll live with it. We'll take it 9 from somewhere else. The 250 is fine; right now they're 10 working. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What -- I got a -- I guess I 13 have a question about your certifications. Is your employer 14 responsible for keeping up your hours of certifications to 15 maintain your C.P.A. license? 16 MS. HARGIS: Most of the time they do. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or is that supposed to be 18 something you do on your own? 19 MS. HARGIS: I've always had it paid when I worked 20 for someone else. And most of the people that I know -- the 21 State pays it, the cities pay it, and most of the other 22 counties are -- all the auditors that I know of are all being 23 paid for by their -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That's just a 25 question, because seems to me like that you'd want to keep 7-13-10 bwk 94 1 your certification up whether you worked here or somewhere 2 else. 3 MS. HARGIS: Well, the two conferences that I 4 attend for that, you don't pay anything because I'm a 5 volunteer. All you pay for is my mileage. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: So these are -- I'm a volunteer on 8 that committee, and I get people, and so therefore you pay my 9 mileage and one night of a hotel. You do not pay a 10 conference fee on those. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 12 MS. HARGIS: I get my meals most of the time. 13 So -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about your staff? Same 15 deal? 16 MS. HARGIS: The staff doesn't go to anything but 17 the TACA conferences. The TACA conferences, unfortunately, 18 are a week long. And they took us to Galveston this year, 19 which I -- hopefully we won't -- we're going to have it here 20 in October in 2012, and this year it's in Lubbock. And I 21 don't know where it is in 2011. I mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So there won't be any 23 expenses involved when it's here, right? 24 MS. HARGIS: That's right. Well, I hope we get 25 enough sponsors when it's here. 7-13-10 bwk 95 1 MS. HYDE: May I ask one question, Judge? 'Cause 2 I'm trying to keep up with the payroll portion of it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 4 MS. HYDE: Last year, the employee expense was 5 108,393, and this year it's gone up to 116 and -- 115,564. 6 So, that's -- that's over 5 percent. 7 MS. HARGIS: No, it should be right at 5 percent. 8 I put that in -- again, I have to take my budget up to the 9 Judge, who either approves or disapproves it. So -- and part 10 of -- so I put it in there. I can take it out, but I got to 11 put it back in when I take it up to him. So, I mean, this is 12 optional. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- does the District Judge have 14 jurisdiction over the assistant auditor also? 15 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I was thinking that was -- 17 MS. HARGIS: I have the ability to raise my budget, 18 not including my salary, my conferences or any of my training 19 5 percent above what it was the prior year, and I've not done 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the Judge can approve 22 that without anything we can say about it if he so chooses, 23 or he can choose to go along with whatever we say for the 24 rest of the employees. That's his prerogative. 25 MS. HARGIS: We're not going to ask for anything 7-13-10 bwk 96 1 more than our employees get. But I put that in because it 2 had been suggested, so that when I take it up to him -- he 3 hasn't approved anything for his staff over and above that 4 yet either. I doubt if he will. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: On the assistant auditor, there 6 would be a longevity in that one? 7 MS. HARGIS: No, she already -- 8 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 9 MS. HARGIS: No, she's already had -- 10 MS. HYDE: We've already gotten all the longevities 11 in. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. 13 MS. HYDE: So I've got -- it's right at a 7 -- 7.1 14 percent increase on the -- on the assistant. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, does that include a longevity 16 for assistant auditor this year? 17 MS. HYDE: She already received it. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. I wasn't sure about 19 the timeline. I was thinking it was around then. Any more 20 on the Auditor? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to 23 Nondepartmental. And -- and I need Ms. Hargis for this, 24 because a lot of those numbers -- 25 MS. HARGIS: They changed. 7-13-10 bwk 97 1 JUDGE TINLEY: -- are relative to what you handle 2 in your office. 3 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The worker's comp is going to 4 depend again on our payroll, so that's kind of a moving -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page are we on? 6 Anybody know? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 16. Page 16. 8 MS. HARGIS: But based on our current projections, 9 that -- that 135 should be okay, but -- but if our payroll 10 does increase by 5 percent, then I'm going to have to go up 11 on that number. It's based on gross payroll. And we have 12 three-quarters in one year and one-quarter of another year, 13 so it's kind of an offset, you know, just the way it falls. 14 So, the 135 is okay for now until we see what the payroll 15 numbers are, and then we may have to increase that by maybe 16 $10,000. But that -- that's a pretty good number right now. 17 The liability insurance, we have a lot of new cars, and I 18 don't get that premium. We're working on that right now. 19 So, based on our current one, I kind of went up a little bit 20 on that. But we -- we're putting, you know, more expensive 21 vehicles on the road. And liability-wise, it shouldn't make 22 that much difference, but we do have more vehicles now on the 23 road than we have had, 'cause we've got Juvenile Probation 24 with -- even though they have two old -- four old cars and 25 two new ones, we only had two cars in the past. Now we have 7-13-10 bwk 98 1 four; additional liability on those. So, we won't get this 2 renewal premium until after the budget. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me about special services. 4 What are we talking about there? 5 MS. HARGIS: I think we just left that for y'all, 6 for any special services, you know. This is kind of y'all's 7 budget. You've not spent anything, but I believe we added 8 that last year, and so I just put it back in. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can delete it. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Hasn't been utilized for 11 anything. 12 MS. HARGIS: You want to take it out? Okay. 13 MS. MABRY: Under the current year notes, this says 14 for Rosa Lavender's newspaper articles, including FICA. 15 MS. HARGIS: Well, that's under her -- another 16 budget now; that's an old note. So this -- so we can take 17 the two out. That's for the newspaper ads. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 911? 19 MS. HARGIS: I don't know what the 911 thing is 20 going to be. We haven't gotten a bill from them. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is it? 22 MS. HARGIS: We get a bill from them for our 23 portion of it, and it comes through Amerine, and I don't have 24 that yet. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I think they're pretty well self -- 7-13-10 bwk 99 1 they're self-supporting through that surcharge on -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cell phone. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: -- telephones. And -- 4 MS. HARGIS: I'll look that up from last year and 5 see what -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think they get 50 cents a 7 line on cell phones as well. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure do. 9 MS. HARGIS: I mean, I can take it out. I need to 10 look and see what we paid for in the past. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we need to make sure, 12 though, before we start taking that out. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 14 MS. HARGIS: The photocopy expense -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've already run over this year. 16 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. That's our paper for the 17 entire building. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say again? 19 MS. HARGIS: That's the paper for the entire 20 building. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, really? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a possibility that some of 23 that is not being properly charged to each department, and 24 it's being -- it's initially charged there, and then charged 25 out to various departments and -- 7-13-10 bwk 100 1 MS. HARGIS: There's a lag. There's a lag in the 2 time frame. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's why it's overdrawn. 4 MS. HARGIS: There's a lag. First we run the 5 expenses through, and then we have to go back and journal 6 them out. 'Cause we pay for the paper bulk, and then whoever 7 orders it, you know, then we bill them as they come along. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 MS. HARGIS: You know. Sometimes it's a daily 10 thing. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put nine. 12 MS. HARGIS: We buy them cheap. That's -- we 13 can -- it did go up. But if we buy too cheap, they complain 14 that it gunks up the machines. 15 MR. TROLINGER: Jeannie, I heard this year -- 16 didn't Tim -- or didn't y'all buy quite a lot of paper 'cause 17 there was a very good deal on it? We've got quite a bit in 18 stock right now. 19 MS. HARGIS: We should be good till September, 20 because they -- they were going up on it, and so we decided 21 we better jump on the wagon real quick. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Basement's half full of paper cases 23 now. Let's go down to autopsy and inquest. I increased that 24 to 75. Looking at -- you know, we've already passed the 25 majority of what we budgeted for last year. 7-13-10 bwk 101 1 MS. HARGIS: I had increased it to 35. We did 25 2 last year, increased it to 25, but it's going to go over. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 75 is what I'm showing. 4 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. I had put 66, because that's 5 what we had last year, but we based that on, I believe, 25, 6 and the cost has gone up. It was 2,200; now it's 2,350, and 7 it's 350 to -- to support -- you know, to drive them. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Still take them to Austin? 9 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 MS. HARGIS: And I think -- I think one of the 12 J.P.'s mentioned there's something new on -- but I -- I don't 13 remember exactly what that was. What about the next one? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pauper. 15 MS. HARGIS: Pauper burial. Is that all right? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't have very many of 17 those. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of the 3,000 that we budgeted 19 this year, we've already spent 2,300. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You took 700 out of my 21 investigators. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And you also took 700 out of 24 my investigators expense. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's how we got the three. 7-13-10 bwk 102 1 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How you kept it. 3 MS. HARGIS: Let's keep in mind, that was that real 4 strange case -- that was one deal, remember? That was the -- 5 the remains that we had to find, so that's only one case. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay. 7 MS. HARGIS: That's that unusual deal. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: So we can leave that at three. 9 MS. HARGIS: I looked at that, but that's -- it was 10 that one case that was -- the whole -- it cost us quite a 11 bit. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Over 2,000 on that one case. 13 MS. HARGIS: It's all -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Got to buy the burial plot. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Burial plot? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah, because we couldn't 18 cremate, because it was an unidentified person. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. You can't cremate; you 21 have to do paupers, and then it's -- the funeral home in that 22 case did it at their regular expense, and wouldn't do it for 23 anything less. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We put a marker up? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think so. 7-13-10 bwk 103 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Unidentified. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Isn't there still a pauper 3 burial site -- what about at the State Hospital, that 4 cemetery? We can't use -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Nope. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: State Hospital. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, sir. Those -- and if you 8 go back, most of the State Hospital at one time were done out 9 of Glen Rest. Glen Rest. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, Glen Rest. What about 11 telephone? 12 MS. HARGIS: That's our internet service for the -- 13 for everybody. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, everyone's in there? Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should that be there? Why 16 isn't that in our telephone? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: What about the access fee? Does 18 that disappear, John? 19 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the internet service should 20 certainly go to the I.T. budget item, because that -- that 21 was funded this year, but it's not being charged to that line 22 item. The access fee, I do not know. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: What you're suggesting is the 24 internet we transfer over to your budget? 25 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. The telephone line item 7-13-10 bwk 104 1 is funded for that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With the telephone. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is -- that amount is 2,000 4 approximately, correct? 5 MS. HARGIS: 4,500. Can we just zero that out, 6 then, if it's already in your budget? 7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: It's in your budget now? 9 MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 10 MS. HARGIS: So we can zero that one out. 11 MR. TROLINGER: I've got to look at the amount to 12 make sure. Tess, can you look at that? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: And the access fee, you're going to 14 take a look at that? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is budgeted? 16 MR. TROLINGER: We'll check the telephone line item 17 in I.T. in 10-408 real quick. Yes, both of those can move. 18 MS. HARGIS: The money to move, or just -- 19 MR. TROLINGER: The $500 access fee and the 20 internet service. 21 MS. HARGIS: Okay. So, we need to move the money 22 over there. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 24 MR. TROLINGER: So those go to zero, and the I.T. 25 stays the same. The I.T. telephone stays the same. 7-13-10 bwk 105 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did you do this for the 2 immunization thing? Is that what you requested for the 3 coming year, 12,000? 4 MS. HYDE: On the immunization, we reduced it, 5 because we're getting -- we've already done most of our hep. 6 We'll have our tetanus done, so all we'll have to do then is 7 new hires, so it should be substantially less. So, that's 8 why we reduced it. The wellness is where I had the question. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Went from 20 to 12. 12 is 10 okay? 11 MS. HYDE: Yeah. We got the flu shots in there 12 too, yes, sir. It was the wellness I got a question on. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there some comedy outside, 14 Buster? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. One of my favorite 16 deals. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Guess he's not going to tell 18 us. So, what's the question on the wellness? 19 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eva, what's the question on the 21 wellness? 22 MS. HYDE: The wellness is down to $10,000. We 23 have talked about two things. One, we had $40,000 in there 24 last year; we didn't use it. We've only used about 2,500. 25 We haven't done this month yet. We've got about 20 employees 7-13-10 bwk 106 1 that are pretty consistent. So, my request was going to be 2 that we up it to $50 a month, and only increase it to 15,000, 3 which would have been a reduction. I didn't know that y'all 4 had already cut it to 10, so I was going to ask that we 5 reduce it to 15,000 this year. If we run out of funds 6 because everybody jumps on the bandwagon, then it's first 7 come, first served, and we'll have to stop. But I don't see 8 that happening. We still got between 20 and 25 people. 9 MS. HARGIS: $1,920 is what I found that we used 10 when I put this in. 11 MS. HYDE: I am sorry. According to the report, 12 we've already used $2,335, and that was as of 6/30. So, we 13 haven't done the 15th of July yet. 14 MS. HARGIS: I didn't find them all when I looked. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on nondepartmental? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing I would ask, if I 17 can, on the wellness is that we -- and Eva and I talked about 18 this in the past. If you do do that, -- 19 MS. HYDE: We haven't changed the wording here. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- the wording needs to be 21 changed to be very specific, that it's got to be, you know, a 22 certain type of deal, and not just, "I got my neighbor 23 helping me doing exercise, and I'm doing it an hour a week." 24 That doesn't qualify. 25 MS. HYDE: We don't allow them to do that. But 7-13-10 bwk 107 1 what is happening is, because of the looseness of the 2 language, and I talked to Rob about it, we have to change the 3 language so that no employee can receive reimbursement in 4 excess of what they're paying. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 6 MS. HYDE: Because we have some people that have 7 old, old, old contracts, so they're only paying 5 or 10 bucks 8 a month, but we're giving them a reimbursement for 20, and 9 based on the language, we can't stop it. So -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're in agreement with that. 11 Nobody should get more than what they pay out, and they 12 should be limited up to 50. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How in the world would you 14 get more than you pay out? 15 MS. HYDE: Because it says we'll pay them $20 per 16 month. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You look at me when I'm 18 talking to you. 19 MS. HYDE: I can't. How do you want me to look at 20 you? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just kept hearing a voice. 22 MS. HYDE: Because without naming any names, we've 23 got a couple of birds that fought the issue. So -- 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not me. A couple in my 25 department. 7-13-10 bwk 108 1 MS. HYDE: They're paying $15 or $10 a month off 2 some old, old rates, but the way that the court order read, 3 we would reimburse them $20. So, we're playing semantics, 4 even though the Sheriff and I have discussed it like adults, 5 so that's why I'm bringing it -- bringing it back. So, Rob 6 said he'd tighten up the language, and then we look at doing 7 the 50 bucks, and that's why we were going reduce it to 15. 8 I didn't know y'all had cut it to 10. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good way to kill 10 the entire program, is start screwing with it like that. 11 MS. HYDE: Right. We have two that are doing it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for 14 nondepartmental? 15 MS. HYDE: If you can add the other five, pretty 16 please? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Say what? 18 MS. HYDE: Can we have other five? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She wants 15 instead of 10. 20 MS. HYDE: It went from 40 to 15. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Where's your wellness? I don't even 22 see it. 23 MS. HYDE: Right there where she's got it 24 highlighted. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7-13-10 bwk 109 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 40 to 15? You haven't 2 spent anything. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She spent 2,500 so far. 4 MS. HARGIS: The reason it's hard to see, it's 5 hitting -- all of that's hitting the salary line item. It's 6 not hitting -- it's not hitting this line item. 7 MS. HYDE: Well, it's hitting -- it's hitting the 8 line items it's supposed to hit, and that's the health and 9 wellness benefit. It's $2,300 as of 6/30. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd leave it at 10. If you get 11 over 10, you can come ask for it out of contingency. 12 MS. HYDE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. 14 MS. HYDE: That'd be great. 15 MS. HARGIS: One other question. What about 16 professional services? Do you think that's sufficient after 17 you talked to Rob? Are you going to increase that or not? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 19 MS. HARGIS: 25 is enough? I'd like to leave 20 contingency at 30, because we don't know. That kind of gives 21 us a little tiny cushion. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. County Court at Law. We 25 don't got a whole lot to do there. 7-13-10 bwk 110 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 19. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty uneventful. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 MS. HARGIS: What do you want to do about these 6 C.P.S. cases, Judge? Which is County-appointed civil 7 attorneys for C.P.S., 'cause we are over already. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the question? 9 MS. HARGIS: It's 407. I don't know what page that 10 is for y'all. You should go back maybe two pages from 409. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is it? 12 MS. HARGIS: 407. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have a 407. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you do. Well, not on here, 15 but you -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There it is. 17 MS. HARGIS: We've spent 208,000 so far. And, 18 remember, we had to do the big budget amendment on that one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that -- what was attributed -- 20 how much was attributed to those two cases? 539, 541. 21 MS. HARGIS: Well, it split years; that's the 22 problem we had. Some of that came in in September of last 23 year, and then -- then one -- and then I think they're done. 24 I think they're finally done. We were still getting some in 25 April and May. They're still coming in on those cases. I 7-13-10 bwk 111 1 don't know if the one's been resolved yet or not. I'd have 2 to look back, but I know it's probably in the range of 75 or 3 more. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Say it was 100. You peel off -- you 5 peel off 100 off of there and you got 107,000. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. I just wanted to point that 7 out. Okay. Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, leave it 9 there? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it where it is? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 12 MS. HARGIS: Okay. Then the County Court at Law is 13 427. I don't know what page it is. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: 19. Made a very minor adjustment to 15 statement of facts; reduced it to 1,000. Other than that, I 16 couldn't see anything that -- 17 MS. HARGIS: You raised the Court-appointed 18 attorneys. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: H.R., here we go. 21 MS. HARGIS: No, we got one more. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to miss all that 23 fun. 24 MS. HARGIS: 428. It's a little one; it's just 25 salaries. 7-13-10 bwk 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are you going? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a state supplement. We don't 3 have any control over that. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now we get to H.R. 6 MS. HYDE: Is your sense of humor intact? Judge, 7 down there under telephone, can we drop that? That still 8 shows, like, at 850. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See her? She comes in here 10 trying to drop things right away, thinking we're going to be 11 on her side. (Laughter.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, may I be excused? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. 14 (Commissioner Williams left the meeting.) 15 MS. HYDE: Is that projection, like, out? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. There's some problems with 17 that; we've been trying to fix them. 18 MS. HYDE: Well, yeah. I mean, I'm not talking 19 about the projection. I'm talking about my telephone. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Just take it out? 21 MS. HYDE: Well, I don't know if that's going to be 22 real high. I mean, that seems like it's real high, if you 23 look at the history, what I've spent. 24 MS. HARGIS: 896 last year, and even with the lower 25 bill -- even with the lower bill, you're going to hit 850, 7-13-10 bwk 113 1 because right now, until we can get Windstream -- we're 2 paying for two phone companies, so right now I'm -- I'm 3 really cautious to reduce that until we get that resolved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What page? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 45. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 45. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew that. 8 MS. HARGIS: So, how much? See, it's at 512, and 9 that's only through June, which is May, so we still have 10 June, July, August, September, four months to go. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You see what I did on 12 training? 13 MS. HYDE: No, I can't see it. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Or what I intended to do. I have 15 2,500 marked here; reduced it from 3,800 to 2,500. Did you 16 catch me before I made that change and give me a big sob 17 story? 18 MS. HYDE: I gave you a big sob story. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What's your sob story? I don't 20 remember; it must not have been too good. 21 MS. HYDE: Well, because the training that we're 22 doing this year, I'm not going. I mean, we're not -- we're 23 trying not to go to anything that we don't have to go to. 24 But we're going to have to go next year because of all the 25 insurance changes and the legislation changes. So -- but if 7-13-10 bwk 114 1 you want to drop it, we can drop it, 'cause I do want to 2 increase Gary. I'd like to request an increase for our 3 consultant, 'cause he is going above and beyond. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's no doubt that one has 5 to be increased, the way it is. 6 MS. HYDE: But he can't train us on all these 7 changes. That's part of the training that we've gone to this 8 year -- or that I've gone to myself and paid for. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Tell me what you would -- with 10 reasonable certainty, what you expect to do in training for 11 you and your people next year, and what that cost is going to 12 be. 13 MS. HYDE: Well, we tend to go to San Antonio or 14 here, is what we tend to do, so we don't have to spend 15 anything. But there is a TAC conference that we have to go 16 to. There is a T.C.D.R.S. conference that we have to go to. 17 I'm not going to go this year, and my people aren't going to 18 go this year, I don't see. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about this year, 20 this current year? 21 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir, this current year, so that 22 money will be still in the budget. But next year we'll need 23 to go, because if TAC continues to change some of the things 24 they do and increase what training they do -- it's free, and 25 it's only -- normally, if I have to go, it's in Austin, so 7-13-10 bwk 115 1 that one's pretty cheap. But San Antonio's typically where 2 we go. The more that I can go though either Alamo or T.P.A. 3 provider, they're free. But they're talking next year that 4 they're going to have to charge for this, and they're looking 5 at 500 bucks a pop, so that's what I put in there, and I put 6 in for three of us to go, that's $1,500. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's one conference? 8 MS. HYDE: That's one conference. And I'm trying 9 to look at it. Do we all have to go? Are there some that I 10 can go to and they don't? But if you want to drop it, then 11 I'll come back and beg for money. I mean, I can do that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Give me the number with reasonable 13 certainty. Is 38 the correct number, or something greater or 14 less? 15 MS. HYDE: I kind of feel like the insurance guy. 16 Drop it to 300 -- I mean 3,000. Not 300, 3,000. Drop it to 17 3,000, and if I need more, I'll come back. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I like the begging 19 thing, coming back and begging. It's just fun. You know, a 20 lot of fun in it. 21 MS. HYDE: You can still say no, right? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: She could spend that time studying 23 all these books on this new insurance stuff, and -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, Obama care. 25 MS. HYDE: Yeah. And then I was asking on the 7-13-10 bwk 116 1 insurance consultant to go to 18,000 to 20,000, but I wanted 2 to discuss it with y'all. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's that? 4 MS. HYDE: It's right below the 3,800 that you just 5 whacked down. It's under insurance consultant 493-225. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, in a different -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much do we pay him? 8 MS. HARGIS: 14. 9 MS. HYDE: 14,000. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: 14. But this -- 11 MS. HYDE: This latest -- I mean, it's pretty 12 whopping. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He earns his money. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, boy, does he. 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe we could do 17 this without him. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I wouldn't want to do it. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With any kind of certainty 20 that we're doing something that's somewhat legal. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: And you're wanting to go to -- 22 MS. HYDE: 20,000. But -- but, of course, I said 23 18 to 20, 'cause I know everything's in negotiation, but I 24 think he's well worth $20,000. I think he's worth more than 25 that. 7-13-10 bwk 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 19, since that's a 2 $5,000 increase? 3 MS. HYDE: Do what? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said 19 would be a $5,000 5 increase. 6 MS. HYDE: I'll take 19 if y'all will give him 19. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I also think that this is a 8 -- a special year. 9 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may be going down -- 11 probably go down next year. I need to make that clear. 12 MS. HYDE: So, do I get 19 or 20 for him? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's going to more than earn 14 his money this year. Hopefully he'll come up with some ways 15 we can save some money. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: He's earned more than we've paid him 17 this year. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For a long time. 19 MS. HYDE: For years. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, hopefully -- hopefully 22 the -- I mean, he'll earn his money this year for sure, and 23 then next year the Congress is not going to fund that goofy 24 thing going on in Washington. But still, there's going to be 25 a scramble on what to do. 7-13-10 bwk 118 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next year it may be the same. 3 I'm not saying that, you know, it's -- we're abnormal one or 4 two, maybe three years. Maybe permanent. Who knows what's 5 going to happen? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There'll be some -- he's 7 going to be working for a while. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kerr County can cede. 9 MS. HYDE: The county can concede? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did we do, 19 or 20? 11 What did y'all do? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 19. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I made some minor cuts. Postage, 15 books, subscriptions, dues. There again, what I'm looking at 16 is what you've been spending this year. 17 MS. HYDE: We've tried not to spend. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. 19 MS. HYDE: I mean, we understand. I was going to 20 say, if y'all have a sense of humor, we do all this outside 21 work for D.A.'s and Adult Probation and all these other 22 folks, so -- y'all aren't looking too happy, so I'll just 23 shut up right there. (Laughter.) I thought it was worth a 24 shot. I mean, that's all outside work above and beyond. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Good option. Okay. Are we done? 7-13-10 bwk 119 1 Okay, Tax Assessor. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 50. Why -- the notices 3 line number is low this year. Why? Are we paying it out of 4 different... Notices? Am I on the right line? 5 MS. BOLIN: Because the notices don't go out until 6 August and September. That's when I spend most of mine. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Tax. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- tax notices, okay. Those 10 aren't public notices. 11 MS. BOLIN: They go to the paper, yeah, and those 12 are late. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 14 MS. BOLIN: And I just left it the same as it was. 15 The newspaper said it was going to go up about 4 percent, is 16 what they told us, but I'm contemplating not using the 17 Kerrville Daily Times because of the expense. The -- 18 MR. ARMSTRONG: Nothing to do with me. 19 MS. BOLIN: As long as the timelines work with the 20 Community Journal, that meets the requirements of the law. 21 And I can do the Community Journal for about a third of what 22 I can do the Daily Times. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- I mean, I'm for 24 saving money, but I'm also for public information. 25 MS. BOLIN: I understand. It's on our web site, as 7-13-10 bwk 120 1 well as in the Community Journal. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be cautious about doing 3 that. 4 MS. BOLIN: Oh, I'm very cautious about it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe -- 6 MS. BOLIN: It's something that I've been thinking 7 about, and -- but if they get too exorbitant in their prices, 8 then it's not going to be feasible for us. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $1,000 increase in 10 conferences? 11 MS. BOLIN: Because of the increase in the hotels 12 and travel. The conference prices are going up. And I don't 13 attend all the ones that I should. I try to do my basic. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Are other persons in your office 15 other than yourself going to conferences? 16 MS. BOLIN: I have my chief deputy go, and then one 17 or two of the other girls switch out. And we share rooms and 18 share rides, and several of them have taken courses in 19 Bandera so that they don't have to spend the night anywhere. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where you'd want to 21 spend the night. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Sometimes you don't have any other 23 choice. Can't get home. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. Good lord. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They got camping places by 7-13-10 bwk 121 1 the river. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or the sidewalk. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 MS. BOLIN: The postage might be the only issue 5 that I have. We had dropped it. I raised it back to 25 and 6 the Judge left it there, and then we got the notification 7 that the postage is going up on January 1. And I've already 8 had to pull twice for postage this year. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to have -- are you 10 going to be carrying some from this year over into next year? 11 MS. BOLIN: I'm hoping. I've been keeping it below 12 5,000 on my machine, which is real low for me. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems like -- I mean, your 14 projected year-end's 32, and you're at 24. You're going to 15 spend 30 this year, and with the postage increase, and you 16 have more properties next year, how can -- it's got to go up. 17 It's got to be at least be 30, probably 35. 18 MS. HARGIS: Needs to be 35, I'm sure. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, we're not going to have 20 fewer properties. 21 MS. BOLIN: Right. With the ranches breaking up, 22 that just increases my postage. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: So, where are we? 35? 24 MS. BOLIN: If we can do that, that would be great. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. You have to -- it is 7-13-10 bwk 122 1 what it is. I'd say we could take it from Rusty's budget 2 later, but -- 3 MS. BOLIN: There is a couple of things that I'd 4 like to bring up that I'm thinking about for the future. One 5 of them I'm hoping will be the very near future. I need to 6 add a second person in Ingram, but I have someone trained in 7 my office that can work out there. Working with the State 8 right now for the computer, for the RTS computer. The issue 9 I have is that we do not have space for two people out there, 10 and I thought about approaching the judge to swap sides of 11 the office, and that's, like, out of the question. So -- so 12 the only other option that I've had, and I've talked to 13 Commissioner Oehler about it, is possibly finding a larger 14 building. Mr. Priour has a building next door that's not 15 being utilized that has several offices in it. I got the 16 drawing today, the layout for what's in there for us to be 17 able to look at and possibly move over there, but that will 18 be -- I'm hoping in the spring. But I've got to get a second 19 person out there, because Karen is doing over 1,000 people a 20 month, just by herself, for motor vehicle. That doesn't 21 count taxes or voter registration. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would the judge move to the new 23 building too? 24 MS. BOLIN: No. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, we can move the whole 7-13-10 bwk 123 1 thing. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just not sure we couldn't 4 get by with a part-time for one more -- this coming year, and 5 maybe think about it the following year. 6 MS. BOLIN: Well, the only thing is -- is that I 7 have to have the RTS workstation set up in the office. And 8 I'm not going to be requesting a second person, another body; 9 I'm going to be taking one from here and moving them out 10 there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the only increase this year 12 is going to be office rent? 13 MS. BOLIN: Office -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Another employee. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She said she's moving one of 16 these employees out there. 17 MS. BOLIN: Yeah. I'm not going to try to replace 18 one in here at the moment. We'll have to see how it goes. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much is the rent? Have 20 you asked? 21 MS. BOLIN: I have not asked. We just barely got 22 the sketches this morning. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You better find out before 24 we -- 25 MS. BOLIN: It would actually be very beneficial if 7-13-10 bwk 124 1 the judge would just swap sides of the office, because his 2 side is, like, two and a half times bigger than ours. And 3 they have one person, and our side could work for him. And 4 then he'd still have access to his courtroom. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you talked to him about that? 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think that's going to 7 work. 8 MS. BOLIN: He won't even talk to me about the 9 thermostat; he isn't going to talk to me about switching 10 sides of the office. (Laughter.) That's not a joke; that's 11 very serious. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will check with Mr. Priour 13 and see what the -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may be -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to be checking with 16 Judge Ragsdale too. 17 MS. BOLIN: I personally don't see any reason why 18 we can't just swap sides of the office. RTS -- or the State 19 will come out and move our machines for free, whether it's 20 there or to another building. But if we can utilize the 21 building that we have and just rearrange the way that we're 22 set up, I don't see a problem in the world with that. And 23 then we don't have to worry about remodeling or setting 24 things up or moving everybody. And -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If he moves buildings, I'm 7-13-10 bwk 125 1 going to have security expenses in moving all the -- 2 MS. BOLIN: That's true. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- camera stuff out there that 4 we have. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you attempted to talk to Judge 6 Ragsdale about this? 7 (Ms. Bolin shook her head negatively.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me suggest first that you make 9 the effort. 10 MS. BOLIN: I will try. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let Eva talk to him. 12 MS. HYDE: Excuse me? (Laughter.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let Eva talk to him. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's H.R. 15 MS. HYDE: That's his office. Why don't you go 16 with her and be the liaison? (Laughter.) 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I already said I would do it. 18 MS. HYDE: I love you, sir. I love you. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, yeah. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. You were going to 21 talk -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're next. 23 MS. BOLIN: He was going to talk to Mr. Priour. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was going to talk to Priour 25 about the situation. I don't know that Ragsdale's going to 7-13-10 bwk 126 1 entrench himself in the office he's in. It's not very big 2 either. But he does have at least double the space that they 3 utilize to collect -- you know, do car titles and license 4 plates, collect taxes. He does just have the one employee. 5 Of course, Bob Terrill offices there too. 6 MS. HYDE: He's got his office in the back. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, his is on the side. 8 MS. HYDE: Behind Christine. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Behind Christine. Ragsdale's 10 over -- 11 MS. HYDE: In the office. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- in the office. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if no one has even made the 14 effort to try and talk -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is all brand new to me, 16 Judge. I just heard this plan for the first time about 17 swapping offices. 18 MS. BOLIN: I thought about it this morning. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This was my first, you know, 20 notice. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't want to listen to "Judge 22 Ragsdale won't do this" deal unless there's at least a real 23 good-faith effort made to talk to him about it. 24 MS. BOLIN: I will give him a call in the morning. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you should do it first. 7-13-10 bwk 127 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, let me throw this out. 2 MS. BOLIN: The problem is finding him in his 3 office. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MS. BOLIN: I would have to call and leave a 6 message and set up an appointment, which I will do. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about if you took over 9 all the space where Christine and Bob are right now? Is that 10 big enough? 11 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And then Ragsdale would still 13 come in and access -- put another door in the wall, and he 14 and Bob could share that back there, and he could still use 15 his courtroom. 16 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That might work. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Ball's in your court. 19 MS. BOLIN: Okay, I will talk to him. And I have a 20 feeling that ball is on me. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay, 'cause Eva's 23 going to run interference for me. 24 MS. HYDE: I'm going with you. I'll be right there 25 with you. 7-13-10 bwk 128 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: "I'll be right behind you." 2 Turn around; there wasn't no one there. 3 MS. BOLIN: Okay. After I talk to Judge Ragsdale 4 and get his opinion on this, how do you want me to proceed 5 with it? Do we need to be on the Commissioners Court agenda? 6 Do we need to come sit in an office -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If you're going to have to spend 8 some funds in order to make leasehold improvements, I'd say 9 to the extent they don't exist in your budget, yeah, you'd 10 need to show up here. But I think probably what's the best 11 option is for you and Judge Ragsdale to jointly appear and 12 say, "We worked out an arrangement that will satisfy the 13 needs of everybody; here's what it is. Can we have the funds 14 to make it happen?" 15 MS. BOLIN: Okay. I will proceed that direction. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Boy, what we'll do to save a 17 few bucks. 18 MS. BOLIN: That's it. Okay. Do we need to go 19 over the next one, 402? The election -- 20 MR. TROLINGER: The software line item? 21 MS. HYDE: Right. 22 MR. TROLINGER: Can we go back to that real quick? 23 MS. BOLIN: On mine? 24 MR. TROLINGER: I don't know if we discussed it. 25 MS. BOLIN: The 7,000 is my maintenance for them 7-13-10 bwk 129 1 loading my certified load, the certified values in. That'll 2 come out next month. 3 MR. TROLINGER: Okay. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we talked about that, 'cause I 5 asked you if it needed to go to over to I.T. You said all of 6 it except this. 7 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 8 MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. 9 MS. BOLIN: You're welcome. 10 MS. HYDE: Even if you do that, you're not going to 11 add a person, right? 12 MS. BOLIN: No. 13 MS. HARGIS: Go back to the newspaper thing. You 14 really -- I think maybe we should increase our budget there 15 just so she could publish it in the -- in the local 16 newspaper, to make sure it covers everybody. 'Cause I don't 17 know that people out in our area get the Community -- I don't 18 get that paper. 19 MS. BOLIN: Well, in your area -- for that area, 20 things out there, we do West Kerr Current, but as far as the 21 county stuff, I've always put it in the West Kerr and the 22 Community Journal and the Daily Times. And I do Community 23 Journal and the West Kerr Current for even less than I can do 24 one ad in the Daily Times. 25 MR. TROLINGER: Well, the Daily Times has internet 7-13-10 bwk 130 1 access, whereas Community Journal -- I don't believe they do. 2 So, there's less -- 3 MS. BOLIN: Right. 4 MR. TROLINGER: -- exposure there. 5 MS. HARGIS: Are they a paper of general 6 circulation? Community Journal? 7 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 8 MS. HARGIS: I don't even know how to get one. I 9 know where it is, but I don't get one. Does it come out once 10 a week? Or -- 11 MS. BOLIN: It shows that I used, in '08-'09, 12 5,800. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you now, 402? 14 MS. BOLIN: 499 -- I'm sorry, 499-430, in notices. 15 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 16 MS. HARGIS: What paper do they get in Center Point 17 and the Comfort area? 18 MS. BOLIN: Community Journal and the Daily Times. 19 Do you want to leave it at 5,000, or do you want to go up? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't ask for it to go up to 21 5,000, did you? 22 MS. BOLIN: I did not; the Auditor just did. Okay, 23 we'll leave it at 5,000. If I need more, then I'll come ask 24 for it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're to 402, right? 7-13-10 bwk 131 1 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one question there. Why 3 do we have to buy more voting machines with HAVA? HAVA 4 compliance? 5 MS. BOLIN: That's not county money. That's our 6 money; that's the state money that we get. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a flow-through? 8 MS. BOLIN: That's a flow-through, yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Software maintenance. That didn't 11 go to I.T.? 12 MS. BOLIN: No, sir. That's Hart, and we talked to 13 John, and he suggested we leave it there since it's not a 14 county-wide thing; it's just our office. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Other than HAVA money, I didn't have 16 any other questions. 17 MS. BOLIN: Okay. Did you have a question, sir? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You sure you don't have too 19 many employees down there? 20 MS. BOLIN: I'm positive. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just checking. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 23 MS. BOLIN: I am positive. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have any capital 25 outlay, so we don't have to go there, do we? 7-13-10 bwk 132 1 JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. 2 MS. HARGIS: We got one fellow here that has 3 capital outlay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What? 5 MS. HARGIS: Capital outlay. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a little bit, Sheriff's 7 Office, and some that I just gave y'all the printout on the 8 jail that I didn't have in the -- only thing I asked for in 9 the Sheriff's Office capital outlay this year was $1,080, and 10 that's what the Judge left in there. And what that is is for 11 his purchasing some more chairs and things like that for 12 dispatch and the conference room; we'll be moving over, and 13 the dispatch is the hearing-impaired device in case you get a 14 call from a deaf caller. We don't have one of those machines 15 in there right now that you can talk into and understand it. 16 So, that's all I'm asking for there. In the jail, I had put 17 in the budget -- and the Judge will love this; make sure you 18 get it, because he'll want to read it back. I made a 19 mistake. I put in the jail's budget, the notes for it, which 20 is 10 more cameras to try and gradually get us -- last year I 21 replaced 10. This year I want to replace 10 more to get us 22 up to the Prison Rape Prevention Act compliance that the 23 federal government is requesting, and the State is saying all 24 the money that the feds are giving is going to state prison 25 systems. So, we started last year by putting 10 cameras 7-13-10 bwk 133 1 inside cells, and I want to continue that by putting 10 more 2 this year. When we do that, I passed out a deal there 3 earlier with Guardian; the bid on that is 17,000, and the 4 reason that's up is the monitors and that also have to be 5 changed out to carry -- we're at the point now where we have 6 so many cameras on that system, we have to expand the system, 7 and that will cover us for the next several years. So, the 8 capital outlay that I need in the jail, even though I had it 9 in the notes, but I forgot to put the figure, is 17,335. 10 That's it. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: I think my sheet was cut off here, 12 and I didn't even have capital on what I've got here. I got 13 a note, "additional items," and sure enough, there is. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. I had to find all kinds 15 of different ways to print it, to get it to print on my sheet 16 without cutting it off. But I did -- I was able to get it. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's cutting you off, Judge, 18 from being able to see what's going on. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just hid my mistakes from 20 him. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's putting lots of cameras 22 in where we can watch everybody else. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, these cameras also 25 have -- one thing that we have to have is the capability to 7-13-10 bwk 134 1 have a -- a -- John can tell me what you call it. It's a 2 blackout portion because of the -- the toilet and the shower 3 location in the cells is blacked out, but it is still 4 recording. And it takes certain passwords and code words to 5 remove that, to see if you had an incident in that blacked 6 out area. And such as on the male side of the jail, only I 7 have the -- the password and the code to be able to remove 8 that to see what happened in those areas, and on the female 9 side of the jail, only my Jail Administrator, being a female, 10 has the password and codes to be able to remove that and see 11 it. And that ups the cost of these cameras and that. That's 12 why you get the 17,000. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wonder if Arizona's got that 14 many cameras in their jail. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To be honest, I wish I didn't 16 have that many cameras in the jail -- in the system. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can't imagine having to 18 watch all those things all the time. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not easy. And they are 20 all recorded also, for security purposes and for criminal 21 prosecution purposes. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Do you guys get together and lobby 23 for the enactment of these things so you can get new toys? 24 Is that how this works? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We fought them. We did not 7-13-10 bwk 135 1 want them. It even went to the Legislature on having to have 2 this act. This was not -- Prison Rape Prevention Act was 3 actually, you know, passed by the U.S. Legislature a number 4 of years ago, and now this year they decided they're going to 5 come out with everything and start enforcing it. Every jail 6 in the state sent up to our legislation what it would take to 7 comply, and it's just ridiculous. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Where did the Tahoe movement start? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tahoe movement? (Laughter.) 10 That may have started with me. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think it's exclusive to 12 Kerr County. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I seem to see it all over. I'll 15 bet -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of the -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Ed Whitaker, the new hot dog up 18 there at G.M., just loves you guys to death. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wouldn't doubt it. But one 20 of the reasons is the Tahoe is the only -- besides the Crown 21 Vic, the Tahoe is the only police package vehicle. The Crown 22 Vic they are going to quit making in police package, plus 23 they're just having so many issues as we had with drowning in 24 shallow water, and I think they've got an issue -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Lack of sales. 7-13-10 bwk 136 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. Well -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Since the Tahoes. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had an e-mail the other day 4 that -- Eva was sitting here when it came in, where an agency 5 in another state was sending out, "How many are using Crown 6 Vics? We got one that is still on the road that was used on 7 last night's shift. It sat two hours, and all of a sudden 8 burst into flames, and it's been traced back to an electrical 9 wiring in the engine compartment." And then I had one last 10 week where, with the Crown Vic -- you have two different 11 agencies that went to a training conference. They just 12 happened to be all parked together in the parking lot. Just 13 got to messing around, and turned out one key, didn't matter 14 whose, okay, would start all four cars and open them. 15 MS. HYDE: That's -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's pretty good. Y'all 17 can share vehicles. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, they've had a lot of 19 issues with the Crown Vics that the Tahoes, I think, are just 20 a lot better. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hope we're done. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's all I have. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You gentlemen ready to fold the tent 24 for today? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've been ready a while ago. 7-13-10 bwk 137 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've kind of folded mine. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll be adjourned. 3 (Budget workshop was adjourned at 4:48 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of July, 2010. 14 15 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 16 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 17 Certified Shorthand Reporter 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7-13-10 bwk