1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Monday, August 23, 2010 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 23, 2010 2 PAGE 3 Review and discuss FY 2010-11 budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure, and personnel matters related 4 thereto, including, but not limited to, cost-of-living adjustment, salary considerations, staffing levels, 5 health benefits and insurance 3 6 --- Recessed 80 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Monday, August 23, 2010, at 1:30 p.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call to order this 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court budget workshop posted for 9 today, Monday, August 23, 2010, at 1:30 p.m. It is that time 10 now. The agenda item is review and discuss Fiscal Year 11 2010-11 budgets and fiscal capital expenditures, personnel 12 matters related thereto, including, but not limited to, 13 cost-of-living adjustments, salary consideration, staffing 14 levels, health benefits, and insurance. I think our folks 15 from H.R. and the Auditor's office have prepared an updated 16 presentation, so it appears. Oh, good gosh, here she comes 17 through the door, and she's got two trees that she's 18 destroyed. 19 MS. HYDE: The new cost-of-living came out on the 20 17th. It has gone down a little bit. It's gone down to 2.45 21 percent. And that's not been updated in the... 22 JUDGE TINLEY: This is off a base of when? 23 MS. HYDE: Last year. I've kept them every year 24 since I've been here. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But specifically, October last year? 4 1 MS. HYDE: We went through August of last year, 2 because when we did the budget, September -- at the end of 3 September they had only come out with the August numbers, so 4 we were using August to August. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: And August numbers won't be out until 7 the middle of September. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20th, thereabouts? 9 MS. HYDE: At least the 15th. Between the 15th and 10 20th, yes, sir. We've gone ahead and put the salary 11 considerations up. They're the same three slides from last 12 time, and this is the first one. 13 MS. MABRY: Page 28. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know what screen to go 15 to? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm trying to figure that 17 out. 18 MS. MABRY: It's on Page 28. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page what? 20 MS. HYDE: 28. 21 MS. MABRY: 28 of the slides. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we start on 28? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This hasn't changed since last 25 meeting, correct? 5 1 MS. HYDE: Maintenance pulled his position off the 2 table. Is that not correct, gentlemen? 3 MR. BOLLIER: Who? 4 MS. HYDE: You pulled your new -- 5 MR. BOLLIER: No, ma'am, I did not. 6 MS. HYDE: Okay, I misunderstood. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We did or we did not? 8 MS. HYDE: I showed in the notes that we did, 9 pulled the maintenance position off. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's in the -- it's in the 11 list, so it's in that total? 12 MS. HYDE: That total down at the bottom -- 13 Commissioner Letz, you weren't here. It says 48,358.39. 14 That should be 31,905 because the first three will be taken 15 out of the excess from Road and Bridge. They have an excess 16 carry-over. 17 MS. HARGIS: Not necessarily an excess, but 18 sufficient carry-over to -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 31 was the same thing from 20 last meeting, right? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 23 MR. BOLLIER: Oh, yes. Yes, you're right. 24 MS. HYDE: You need to correct yourself. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, we pulled the maintenance 6 1 worker off the list. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Pulled it off? 3 MR. BOLLIER: I said that -- yes, let's pull it 4 off. We can -- new maintenance position, yes, just pull it 5 off. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 26,749. 8 MS. HYDE: That will reduce the roll-ups a little 9 bit as well. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The -- 11 MS. HARGIS: What about the part-time? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: The chief deputy under the Tax 13 Assessor -- 14 MS. HYDE: That would be pulled. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We moved that to a 19-1 this 16 morning. 17 MS. HYDE: In talking with the County Clerk and the 18 District Clerk, they'd be willing to forego the 2.5 to move 19 them up in grade. Grade only. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Explain the District Clerk, 21 what we're doing there. 22 MS. HYDE: Which one? Which part? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I presume they're somewhat 24 related. Or are they not related? 25 MS. HYDE: The chief deputies? Is that what you're 7 1 asking about? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. HYDE: The chief deputies going from 19's to 4 23's? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, all chief deputies? 6 MS. HYDE: What the understanding was, was that if 7 the chief deputy was fully certified and could take over 8 the -- the position, to allow them to go up to a Grade 23. 9 They start out as a 19. Once they receive their 10 certifications and everything that's mandated for the elected 11 official, then they could move up to 23's. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that one chief deputy per 13 office that has a chief deputy? There's only one chief 14 deputy? 15 MS. HYDE: There's only one chief deputy. 16 MS. BOLIN: In each office. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Did I hear you correctly that 18 they're moving up in grade only? 19 MS. HYDE: Moving up in grade only. And we'd have 20 to look on the 19 -- the 19-8 to make sure, 'cause that's a 21 23-1. That's with a 2.5. So, we might have to wait until 22 next year. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, if you compare the 24 District Clerk's chief deputy, who has all the 25 certifications, to the one that is now going to be chief 8 1 deputy in the Tax Office that probably does not have all 2 those certifications, that's the justification for wanting to 3 make it more than the other? 4 MS. HYDE: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 6 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this a -- just a policy 8 change that we've agreed to that I don't remember? 9 MS. HYDE: No, this is a request. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A new one coming in? 11 MS. HYDE: A request to change the grades once they 12 become fully certified. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it makes sense. I'm 14 not sure that it's a great year to do it. I guess my -- 15 looking down the list, the only ones that I'm in favor of are 16 the first two for Road and Bridge, the certified mechanic, 17 which I think is a requirement, and the additional for the 18 pesticide license, which is kind of something that we're 19 already doing out there. That one, and I think in the 20 Maintenance Department, the increase to the lead maintenance 21 worker. I think that person's doing that. And that's all 22 that I see on this page. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you're saying the 24 certified mechanic, pesticide license over at Road and 25 Bridge, and -- 9 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The promotion -- 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- promotion to lead 3 maintenance worker? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. All the rest of them 5 have to wait a year. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why would we increase -- I 7 mean, I understand the justification for the lead maintenance 8 worker, but, I mean, if you do that one and don't do the 9 other ones -- some of the other ones, or all of the other 10 ones -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see that there's a -- I 12 mean, the justification of increased job responsibilities, I 13 mean, the job is being done now. They're just raising the 14 chief deputies to a 23. Well, I think that makes sense to 15 get that into a plan to implement. We're just short of money 16 this year. I personally think we need to get rid of all the 17 part-time and all overtime in all budgets, because I think 18 that that's an area that -- you know, it hurts almost every 19 department, but it's also an area that is better -- I'd 20 rather take money there than take it from employees. I'm 21 trying to figure out how we can come up with enough money to 22 give a COLA, which is a priority to me, and everything else 23 bare minimum. 24 MS. HYDE: The part-time budget, Judge, I believe 25 you've already -- part-time and overtime, the Judge has 10 1 already reduced. Is that not right, Jeannie? 2 MS. HARGIS: He reduced some of them, not all of 3 them. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only two part-time -- I think 5 there's two kind of full-time part-time positions. 6 MS. HYDE: Two regular part-time positions. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are different. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 MS. HYDE: I would ask on the crime prevention, 10 although that says merit and additional job responsibilities, 11 that's a supervisory position that that employee's been 12 placed into. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Supervising -- 14 MS. HYDE: Supervising 10 dispatchers. They're the 15 dispatch supervisor, and that's the additional job 16 responsibilities in that position. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- explain that, Rusty. 18 What are you doing? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That position took over as 20 dispatch supervisor also, because that had been on the -- the 21 captain over C.I.D. And so now that position has stepped in 22 to be their direct supervisor, which she hadn't been. She's 23 been doing it this year with no compensation, but she is 24 directly over 10 employees. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's -- 11 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So you've gone from zero to 2 $42,762, so that's basically another employee, isn't it? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, $2,136 increase. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I was looking at the 5 deputy line item, but that one's being taken out. I'm sorry. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The deputy one I took out. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- and on a lot of 9 these other positions, based on the revenue that we're 10 getting, there's been a -- I'll probably get shot for saying 11 this, but a decrease in workload in almost every office. 12 Whether it's coming from speeding tickets or whatever it's 13 coming from, our workloads have not increased this year, 14 'cause our revenue has not increased. 15 MS. UECKER: Revenue. Our workload's the same. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our revenue is down, and in 17 every place we get revenue in, and there's a reason for that. 18 And it's just -- you know, and I think we need to do some 19 analysis as to why. I don't know if it's just the state 20 taking more, a bigger part of it, or if it's internet or 21 whatever the cause on all of them are, but I know the numbers 22 I was presented, every department that really receives 23 revenue, that revenue's decreased. 24 MS. UECKER: My revenue this year, and I was 25 talking to Jeannie about it earlier, is down about 10 12 1 percent. But with the economy the way it is, people are not 2 paying their fines. They're filing pauper's affidavits to 3 file civil suits. The civil suits are actually up a little 4 bit. Criminal is up a little bit. It's the revenue only 5 that's down. Which, you know, it's just as much or more 6 work; it's -- you know, just to make that clear, it's revenue 7 only in my office. I don't know about any of the other 8 offices. Don't care. And the only one of those positions 9 that I really am a little bit passionate about is the one 10 that's making a 14. The other ones I'm okay with leaving. 11 That's the same as the janitors. And as we discussed, even a 12 couple of years ago you tried to correct that, and you did 13 correct it, and then it got undone. I mean, these clerks -- 14 and I think Jannett even has some like that too; I don't 15 know. But I'm just talking about in mine. I mean, they have 16 to be able to research the law. They have to be able to know 17 how to work these complex case management systems. They have 18 to know how to deal with people. They have to be able to 19 deal with lawyers. A little bit different than cleaning a 20 bathroom, but they're being paid the same. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we got rid of all 22 that. I thought we did that. 23 MS. HYDE: We did do that, and then y'all turned 24 around and pushed them up to 14's. We put them to 13.5's and 25 said we were going to circle them -- red-circle them, and 13 1 then y'all changed your mind and put them to 14's. 2 MS. PIEPER: I think all of mine are 14's except 3 for two. 4 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 5 MS. UECKER: And I'm okay with leaving it, but 6 that's the one I'm a little bit passionate about. As long as 7 I can, you know, get assurance from the Court that we're 8 going to take a really serious look at this next year, 9 because -- you know, and I don't know if these people know 10 they're making what the janitors make or not, but I don't 11 think it would help -- 12 MS. PIEPER: Morale. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think there's any of 14 these that are unreasonable. Every request in here is a 15 valid reason. We just don't have the money. 16 MS. UECKER: I understand. That's why I'm 17 saying... 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MS. UECKER: That's the only one I'm a little bit 20 passionate about. But as long as I know that this Court's 21 going to take a look at it, you know, in the future. And -- 22 and I think, you know, she would be okay with that too, 23 understanding that we just don't have the money. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's where I am on 25 this page. 14 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. UECKER: Our criminal load is actually up a lot 3 because of the economy, which, you know, makes more work on 4 us, but they're just not able to pay their fines and costs. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that part of your 6 revenue being down is the change on how they -- 7 MS. UECKER: How they pay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How they pay, but also, isn't 9 there a change on how -- you can't put so much -- you only 10 have to pay the fees on one crime, or -- I'm not saying it 11 right, but there's a reason as to how they're -- you have no 12 control over it. 13 MS. UECKER: I have no control over it. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But as y'all have seen, like 15 with the jail docket -- or the jail population most of the 16 year, the criminal side, unfortunately, is way up compared to 17 everything else because of the economic times. 18 MS. UECKER: As a matter of fact -- and the reason 19 I had asked for that part-time person was the way they're 20 doing the dockets now. They're bringing in -- doing these, 21 you know, 10 pages of pretrials, which is over 100 cases at a 22 time, and felonies, and all their lawyers, and then they're 23 splitting them up when they all get here. That means one 24 clerk in this courtroom, another clerk in this courtroom; 25 they're both doing pleas. So, I've got another clerk in the 15 1 back who's doing the court costs and taking their 2 acknowledgments, signing them up so when they go to the 3 courtroom, they're ready to plead. That takes almost half of 4 my staff out of my office on those days. And that part-time 5 person was just to bring -- you know, she was going to do all 6 the appellate stuff and then come in and work in the office 7 on those pretrial days when half of the people are out, or 8 out at the jail. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 MS. UECKER: I mean, I can -- I'm okay with it this 11 year. There again, as long as, you know, y'all know that 12 there is a need that needs to be met at some point in time. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What kind of an impact did 15 you make on that line? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very little. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On that budget? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very little in the big picture, 19 I'm afraid. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we have a number on that, 21 what you suggested? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,458 plus 815 plus 10,699 plus 23 2,136. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't Road and Bridge -- 25 that doesn't -- that doesn't affect -- 16 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm-mm. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't affect our 3 bottom line on the revenue. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. You're right. 5 MS. HYDE: Right. You said all three of them, 6 right, from Road and Bridge? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At some point we need to talk 9 about the third line item there, but I'm not sure -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I'm not totally done 11 with that, but it's just -- I'm not sure we're going to get 12 there today. 13 MS. HYDE: So, I can put half an "L"? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can put a little star by it 15 if you want, but there's still zero on the number line. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Really and truly, Road and 17 Bridge shouldn't even be in this. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The general budget fund was 19 2,136 plus 1,459. 20 MS. HARGIS: Plus the 1,459, just those two. 21 MS. HYDE: Just those two. 22 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The roll-ups are 673, so that's 23 4,268. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. For whoever's keeping 25 track. 17 1 MS. HYDE: Is there anything else on this page, 2 gentlemen? Supplemental page. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Supplemental. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which page? 5 MS. HARGIS: 29. 6 MS. HYDE: 29. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are killing me. 8 MS. HYDE: Please note on the State Hospital 9 magistration, because you weren't here, Commissioner Letz, 10 those would be pass-through. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could they pass into the 12 county's coffers instead of being passed through? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Intermediate stop. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the 2,739 pass-through and 15 the 2,000 -- are those both pass-throughs? 16 (Ms. Hyde nodded.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't have a 18 problem if it's pass-through, as long as it's not the 19 taxpayers as a whole paying it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pass through the county and 21 stop there. Do they get it or not get it? If they don't get 22 it, is the County not entitled to it either? But we're 23 getting them new vehicles this year, you know. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yep. 25 MS. HYDE: The pass-throughs are for the J.P.'s. 18 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm? 2 MS. HYDE: The pass-throughs are for the J.P.'s, 3 not the constables. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm talking 5 about. J.P.'s is what I'm talking about -- actually, both. 6 The constables don't pass through. 7 MS. HARGIS: No. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, absolutely not on that 9 one. The J.P.'s will either get it or not get it, or the 10 county won't get it, period? 11 MS. HYDE: That's not my decision. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just asking. 13 JUDGE MITCHELL: Can I say something as a J.P.? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I knew I'd spark you up. 15 JUDGE MITCHELL: Well, I just want to let you know 16 about this pass-through, since I hadn't been in the last 17 meetings. As you know, we tried to get the City to 18 contribute to -- their municipal court judges to participate 19 in the rotation, the magistration and being on call. They 20 declined. We magistrate -- I've been attaching a report to 21 the main report every month showing how many Class C 22 misdemeanors that we magistrate for the city, which they get 23 court costs for. So, if my understanding is correct, Rusty's 24 processing fees that the City pays him, he plans to increase 25 that, which he should do no matter what, because they're 19 1 getting the court costs on all these that were magistrated, 2 and they're not participating at all. So -- and as Rusty 3 said, the crime is going up. And this last week I was on 4 call. The minimum time I was out there magistrating was two 5 and a half hours minimum, and over three-quarters is usually 6 from the city. So, that's why I wanted to explain that to 7 you. And we if we do get them to participate, we wouldn't be 8 asking for some, but if Rusty can charge extra for the 9 processing fee, then I think that we should be able to see 10 some of that money, since we do it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way that we can just 12 -- we can charge, or through Rusty, bill it, or -- a 13 magistration fee? And if they want to -- City wants to do it 14 themselves, they can do it themselves? 15 JUDGE MITCHELL: They won't. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand they don't want 17 to. It's their option. They either pay you to do it or they 18 do it themselves. They have a choice; they can do it either 19 way. 20 JUDGE MITCHELL: We tried both of those ways, and 21 they declined both of them. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then just add it to your fees. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That will be on your next 24 agenda for next time. We're currently charging them $37 for 25 one day of housing. That's until they see a magistrate. 20 1 Then it's ours. Every agency except D.P.S. gets charged 2 that. And what I'm probably going to recommend -- most 3 agencies are charging anywhere from 40, 45 to 50 -- is at 4 least going to 40 a day, you know, for that one day. And 5 we'll see. I think Bandera's dropped theirs now; it's the 6 same as out-of-county housing, to 45. But I think if we stay 7 at 40, that will cover it. Because we only get one day to 8 charge. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem, if you 10 were going to go to 40, to 45 or 50, with a certain portion 11 of that, you know, being used as a supplement to the J.P.'s. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, when we charge it and 13 send them a bill, it comes back to the general fund. Now, 14 what the Auditor does with it, I don't know. It doesn't come 15 to the Sheriff's Office. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's -- I mean, I don't 17 have a problem with that one. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Treasurer or whoever. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say 50. 20 MS. HYDE: Because when we did the numbers, we know 21 that 37 to 40 will pay for that supplemental. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want to make money on 23 it, but I think it needs to pay the magistration costs, 24 because it's not really -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We don't make money, because 21 1 it takes normally four to five hours total of paperwork just 2 for the jail to process them in and out, so we're not making 3 money. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MS. HYDE: So, you want them to go to 50? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, fine with me. I think 7 we're -- 8 MS. HARGIS: 45. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Ingram would have to pay it 10 too. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to do a Kerr 12 adjudication amount to go to the J.P.'s as a supplement? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Or we can average it out 14 and give it now. 15 MS. HYDE: We've got it in here at $2,000. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All four J.P.'s are now 17 participating in the magistration, correct? I'd just figure 18 out an approximate amount and give them a supplement, as long 19 as it's continuing to do it for the city. 20 MS. HYDE: We've got it in there as $2,000 each for 21 the magistration. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all figure out the amount, 23 and if that pays for it, that's okay. Of course, that's just 24 one commissioner's idea. 25 MS. HYDE: No, I'm just writing. I'm just writing. 22 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tend to go along with that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- the one that I 3 started out with, with the -- the County Judge, when I went 4 to the -- the M.H.M.R. and the probate supplement, that's in 5 lieu of all that other -- the 18,00 is out. I mean, if it's 6 pass-through, I don't mind it, same as the J.P.'s. What's 7 the constables' supplement? I don't see a supplement there. 8 And I don't see a supplement for the Sheriff this year. I 9 understand there's some reasons for it and difference in 10 salaries, but I just -- you know, we need to keep the Sheriff 11 making more than the chief deputy, by a dollar. (Laughter.) 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're pretty close there 13 right now, Jonathan. At least that's not, you know, cutting 14 the chief deputy position. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- raise it, because it gets 16 him up. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the only way he can 18 get a raise. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are we giving the chief 20 deputy a raise? Just give him cost-of-living, and he should 21 get that too. All right. That's all I see on this page. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, are there funds that -- 23 for probate and for mental health cases that generate money 24 that would -- could be used for a supplement? If they don't 25 generate any fees that produce it, then no. 23 1 MS. HYDE: Judge? 2 JUDGE TINLEY: On all those court costs, per-case, 3 there's a judge's fee that's generated. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That just goes into the 5 county coffers now? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. Appreciate it. 8 The Judge is making some money. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, I don't -- if 10 it's a -- you know, a fee that's being generated because we 11 have a County Judge currently who is an attorney, I don't 12 mind that individual, whether this judge or a different 13 judge, getting a supplement for that. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How's that going to work? If 15 now there's a fee being charged and it's going into the 16 county coffers and not going as a supplement. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not going what? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not going as a 19 supplement now. It's going as court costs and fees or 20 whatever you want to call it. That's going into the county 21 coffers; is that correct? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So if we approve a 24 supplement, some of that money that's now going into the 25 county bank, as you might say, would be diminished some if we 24 1 all of a sudden made part of that a supplement. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You'd divert it, sure. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not saying that it's not 5 justified. I'm not -- I'm just saying it's the -- 6 MS. HYDE: Are those fees mandated, Judge? Or can 7 those fees go up as well? 8 MS. PIEPER: No, they can't. 9 MS. HYDE: They cannot. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: They're set as part of the overall 11 schedule, and in virtually every case. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jonathan, going back, the only 13 thing -- I have a question. I'm going to raise the housing 14 cost to house an inmate to pay a supplement to the J.P.'s? 15 That's what we're doing. But yet you don't want to pay a 16 supplement to the Sheriff's position. That's my issue. 17 We're going to raise theirs so they can get their supplement. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because they're doing something 19 that's constitutionally not responsible -- that they don't 20 have to be doing. If the City would do the magistration, 21 they wouldn't get this supplement. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But -- yes and no, okay? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand what you're 24 saying. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If they're in there on a state 25 1 charge, it's still the County's responsibility -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- once they're there. It's 4 not the City's. That's the difference. All Class C's, 5 unless it's camping in the park or something, an ordinance, 6 are county responsibilities; they're state charges. 7 JUDGE MITCHELL: But there again, Rusty, every 8 judge in town is a magistrate, not just the J.P.'s. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. So you -- 10 JUDGE MITCHELL: So if every judge wants to 11 participate, they can. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. 13 MS. UECKER: Can I throw something in here 14 generally? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 16 MS. UECKER: Now, all of the supplemental increases 17 and all of that is definitely justified, and what I'm going 18 to say is nothing personal to anyone. But all these budget 19 workshops I've listened to, we need to increase that one 20 'cause of increased duties; they have more buildings, he's 21 getting too close to his chief deputy, we got more courts, we 22 got more this. Well, it looks to me like you're opening a 23 can of worms, because if you're going to do that, are you 24 going to give me a supplement for taking on passports? Are 25 you going to give Diane a supplement for doing elections? 26 1 Are you going to take it away from her for giving it up? I 2 mean, we're opening a big can of worms by nitpicking all of 3 these little things. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree. 6 MS. BOLIN: Thank you, Linda. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with that. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I truly don't disagree. 9 MS. UECKER: The job description says "and any 10 other duty as required." (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have your bulletproof 12 vest on? 13 MS. UECKER: I know. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She always has it on. 15 MS. UECKER: I'll probably get it. Sorry, Judge. 16 It was nothing personal against anybody, but we've been 17 listening to how much money we don't have. But, you know, 18 I'm too close to my chief deputy, I got more barns, I got 19 more -- you know, I've got a lot more criminal cases. I need 20 a supplement. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only one out of that group, I 22 mean, that I think is a little different are the J.P.'s, 23 'cause the J.P.'s somehow got saddled with something that, 24 you know, they didn't really ask for it either, and they 25 tried some alternatives and were hit with a -- well -- 27 1 MS. HYDE: "No." 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: "No." So, I mean, I think it's 3 a little bit -- you know, I guess it's their responsibility 4 to do magistrate work. But -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But they've been doing that 6 duty since the beginning of time. It hasn't -- isn't 7 something that just came up. Now, it has increased 8 drastically because of the number of arrests, but it's the 9 same duties that have been there. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda's point is very valid. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Other side of the table is 12 very quiet. Do you notice that they haven't said anything 13 down there? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just listening. 15 MS. PIEPER: Okay, whack the supplements. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They trying to keep from 17 getting knots on their head or what? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. When it 19 comes -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have enough sense to know when to 21 be quiet, haven't we? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just listening to the 23 whittling going on. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can all -- you know, 25 there's no way that anybody can say this is not justified, 28 1 but we're looking for dollars. And -- and, you know, things 2 can be a little different whenever you have a better economy; 3 your revenues are up, and everybody can live just a little 4 bit better. But right now, I just don't see it. That's just 5 my standard remark anyway, so it's nothing new. I haven't 6 changed in that respect. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just more practice. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just have more practice. And 9 I don't get mad any more about it; I just tell how I think it 10 is. I just don't see doing all of this. You know, there's 11 another $48,739 right there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem. Say no 13 supplements and look at them next year. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I think that's a fair 15 way to do it, but I'm only one member. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you say? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No supplements. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We finally got some noise 20 down there at that end of the table. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's look at it next year, and 22 all these -- 'cause I think these are all valid, like the 23 other page was all valid. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we set them aside 25 till next year. 29 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to go back to 2 those previous two pages and do the same thing? I'm with 3 you. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's too easy. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some of those, if you need to 6 hire -- if you need a licensed mechanic for some TexDOT 7 reasons and working on vehicles, I look at that different. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course it's different. 9 Absolutely, it's needed. But you don't have the money. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But TexDOT says we have to have 11 the mechanic. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They can send over the 13 money. 14 MS. PIEPER: That basically comes out of a 15 dedicated fund as well, I think. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a total -- that's not 17 affecting the bottom line of our budget. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It does -- it is and it isn't. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's in a separate -- 21 MS. HARGIS: In a separate budget. It does reflect 22 on that bottom line, but not -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We set -- the reality is, we 24 set the tax rate that generates that revenue, and we can 25 reallocate that tax rate to the general fund, which I propose 30 1 doing as well. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm. Y'all did that a few 3 years ago. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When are you going to go to 5 the income side of this thing? 6 MS. HYDE: The income? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How you're going to pay for 8 all of this. 9 MS. HYDE: It's the same as it was. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just fold my tent 11 up and go on home then, huh? 12 MS. HYDE: I mean, it's -- I mean, I've got a 13 couple here. You guys have just said do -- kind of as a 14 consensus, do away with the supplemental page. There's three 15 more and a star on the page before that, which took it down 16 to about $4,200. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which page are you on? 18 MS. HYDE: I went back to where Commissioner 19 Baldwin is on 28. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 28? Okay. 21 MS. HYDE: Started out as 125,000 on this page, and 22 it's constantly been whittled down to where it's about 4,268. 23 And there appeared to be two that were semi okey-dokey, and 24 two that didn't say anything. So, those are the only ones 25 that I know of on that page. 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I say zero out the entire 2 page. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And hire -- sub out our Tex -- 4 our work on our -- that's required by the TexDOT certified 5 mechanic? 6 MS. HYDE: Have to take it to a certified mechanic, 7 and the nearest one's Boerne. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you don't, you're breaking 9 the law. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- is this -- is this 11 out of general fund? 12 MS. HARGIS: No. 13 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, if the law 15 requires something, that's a different story. If it's 16 constitutional or the law requires it, that's a different 17 story to me. Otherwise, no. That's -- you know, it's that 18 simple with me for this year. We don't have the money. And 19 we're going to talk about in a minute raising taxes up to the 20 rollback point. And -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm with you, Commissioner, but 22 I look at it a little bit different. Rusty is -- there's 23 someone taking over a lot more responsibility, supervisory, 24 and he's not asking for additional staff. He's cut back on 25 his staff, or cut his staff. 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- you know. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I know 4 exactly what you're talking about, and I know what he's 5 talking about. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then on the Road and 7 Bridge, on the pesticide, we basically have a policy in place 8 that says if someone gets a license, we pay them extra to get 9 that license, and this person's done that. So, I don't see 10 that's any different than -- 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Chief deputy getting 12 certification. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Certification, or any other of 14 these automatic increases people get when they get a license 15 or certification as part of our budget. It's already built 16 in. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or if it's -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't understand why that 19 one's on there differently, but it is. But I think -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any problem 21 with the Road and Bridge ones, not at all. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just -- I didn't 23 really -- 24 MS. PIEPER: Before y'all completely say no to that 25 page, can I put my two cents in? 33 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Kelly? 2 MS. HOFFER: I just wanted to say, as far as with 3 the A.S.E.-certified mechanic, that's a D.O.T. regulation. 4 And by D.O.T. regs, we have to do a driver's vehicle 5 inspection report; we call it a D.V.I.R. If there's 6 something that's red-tagged on that vehicle, it has to be 7 signed by a certified A.S.E. mechanic. If, for some reason, 8 it wasn't fixed properly and we had an accident, that falls 9 under D.O.T. standards. That's going to be the first 10 place -- they're going to see our D.V.I.R. on that dump truck 11 or that piece of equipment, and then the next step is they're 12 going to want to see the certification of the mechanic that 13 signed off on it and pulled the red tag and put it back into 14 service. So, you can probably get yourself in quite a bit of 15 trouble if -- if you don't have that person A.S.E.-certified, 16 'cause it specifically says it on the D.O.T. D.V.I.R. form. 17 Been going quite a while with that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Buster's -- I don't 19 want to speak for Buster. You're okay with that one because 20 of that situation? It's coming out of a dedicated fund. 21 He's nodding. 22 MS. HOFFER: I just wanted to let you know why it 23 is that we're needing this. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I appreciate you saying 25 that. How many -- how many pesticide people -- licensed 34 1 people is required out there? 2 MS. HOFFER: I don't think we actually have a 3 minimum requirement. Currently, right now we have two people 4 in the field that have their pesticide license. I have mine 5 from when I was in the field, and Leonard also has his, and 6 the two that currently have theirs could retire -- they could 7 retire probably tomorrow if they wanted to. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All it takes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're the supervisors? 10 MS. HYDE: They're the crew chiefs. 11 MS. HOFFER: Mm-hmm. 12 MS. HYDE: You've got the Road and Bridge 13 Administrator, the assistant administrator, and the two crew 14 chiefs that are the ones. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Crew chiefs can't spray the 16 weeds, is what you're saying. 17 MS. HYDE: No, they're both -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nevermind, go on. 19 MS. HYDE: Both could take retirement. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Put Roundup on you if you're 21 not careful. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They might miss. When do we 23 get to the fire truck? (Laughter.) 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Need to get there pretty 25 quick. We got all this high-priced talent tied up. 35 1 MS. BOLIN: Did I understand correctly that the 2 certification increases were still going to be okay for this 3 next budget year? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they're automatically 5 put in, weren't they? 6 MS. BOLIN: I've got two of them on here that were 7 listed for this next year. They got their certification this 8 summer. 9 MS. HYDE: It's an education. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought all those -- the 11 merit, all those things, were built -- longevity and all were 12 put into our budget automatically. 13 MS. HYDE: While you were gone, longevity is not 14 necessary, and the education was not necessary. We're still 15 talking about them. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they're not right now? 17 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, then, I would put 19 those in with that category. I mean, an education increase, 20 to me it's all or none. Everyone gets one, or -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's only fair. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about the policy that 23 was put in in '99? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, can't pick and choose. 2 Either in or out. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's a set amount for that 4 increase, one step or one grade. Which is it? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: One step. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One step. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's a known number. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's not in our numbers 9 right now. 10 MS. HYDE: Right. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: That total is approximately 50,000 12 dollars, if I recall? 13 MS. HYDE: The longevities across the board for all 14 employees, and the educational increases were $6,000, and we 15 estimated it would be $50,000. And that's on a slide way on 16 back. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Longevities and law 18 enforcement education, 50,000. 19 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. We tentatively showed, again, 20 getting it down to $2,522, which we zeroed out, so we thought 21 that one was safe. But -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the fire truck -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wake up back there, boys. 24 MS. HYDE: You got one more on raises. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I thought we were done 37 1 with that; I was moving on. 2 MS. HYDE: This is the one that, not this last 3 meeting when you weren't here, but the meeting before, y'all 4 said pretty much do away with all raises across the board. 5 You said we needed maybe to talk about Maintenance. 6 Commissioner Oehler agreed with you, and I think Commissioner 7 Baldwin nodded his head. I don't know -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think all of them are gone. 9 MS. HYDE: Do what? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them gone. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. Let's get to the 12 fire truck, Jon. Come on. 13 MS. HYDE: Flip the page there. That's not the 14 fire truck; fire truck is back. The fire truck is back. 15 Back, like, around 20, 19 -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 24. 17 MS. HYDE: There's the fire truck. I believe, 18 Commissioner Baldwin, you brought up the north, right? On 19 this -- on the fire truck. The north side of town. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a concern about it. 21 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My overall feeling on it is, 23 with the -- we go back and forth every year on it. I'm in 24 favor of canceling the contract and increasing funding to the 25 volunteer fire departments that are covering the areas 38 1 anyway. The northern area, I mean, Kerrville's sending one 2 truck. We have volunteer fire departments that are covering 3 that area. My -- Tierra Linda, Comfort, and Center Point are 4 the ones that are doing it. Center Point is the main one, I 5 think. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Ingram. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Ingram. And I think 8 that -- and then I think Kerrville South is probably -- is 9 covered by Turtle Creek, Center Point, and Ingram. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Ingram. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that we do kind of 12 like the proposal says; talk to the fire departments, 13 increase their funding. That's where the bulk of the fire 14 fighting's coming from anyway, based on the contract. 15 Contract with city of Kerrville is sending one truck, and 16 they -- you know, it's a -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Won't squirt water very long. 18 I think it, according to the County Attorney, has a 60-day 19 cancellation clause, when I talked to him. I believe he told 20 Buster the same thing. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if there's a -- a major 23 fire, I think the City's under a mutual aid agreement to 24 participate anyway. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They do. They respond. 39 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, it's just -- this is 2 putting this problem squarely into our lap, to figure out how 3 best to solve it long-term. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, how many 15's are we 5 doling out here now? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to talk to the 7 different departments. I'm not sure 15 is the exact number. 8 I think you need to talk to Ingram. Ingram and Center Point, 9 in my mind, will get the most, I would say, probably, you 10 know, and then the other two that are under consideration 11 would be Turtle Creek and -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you may want to start 13 with the ones that's in the -- that that's their cachement 14 area or their precinct. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's Center Point. 16 Does part of that northern -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll work that out. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever. I mean, that's what 19 I'm saying. Whatever. I know Center Point always seems to 20 be first up there. Maybe there's some way we can do -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram's got good equipment 22 and got lots of it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say that again, Bruce? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ingram has good equipment, 25 and lots of it. 40 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They do. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, they're all very 3 fortunate. The surrounding volunteer fire departments have 4 done a really good job of -- you know, they're well-trained, 5 well-equipped. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tend to agree with 7 you, Commissioner Letz. And it's a -- it's a giant leap of 8 faith in our volunteers to be able to -- you know, the only 9 thing that I know -- that I know about is where my house is, 10 and it really doesn't matter who you are and where you're 11 from; Ingram ain't going to get to my house and put it out. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same here. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they couldn't get out 14 there with a helicopter. But -- so -- but, you know, that 15 Kerrville South area right there by the school and all of 16 that, I -- I have a concern about that. But I think the -- 17 you know, you're not going to get a volunteer fire department 18 with the same response time as a -- as the city does, but 19 it's not far behind. You know, it's just -- that's kind of 20 scary to me. Scary a little bit to me. But I think that -- 21 you know, the Judge and I have been talking about doing some 22 upgrading in certain places, and might be -- we might -- like 23 you said, it really presents the problem to this table. And 24 once we get the reality of this thing -- our hands around the 25 reality, then we got to get busy, got to roll our sleeves up 41 1 and get busy and get it done. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it may not end up -- I 3 don't know that we're going to be able to, say, free up 4 165,000. That number may be -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can't. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- lower. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. You're 8 right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to fix the problem. 10 Safety's first, and do it in the most economical way we can. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And address the problem for 12 sure. But there's more than one way to address it, and one 13 fire truck, I don't believe, is the answer. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mike, do you have any 15 comments? We're throwing you out of the room now, kind of. 16 MR. ERWIN: If it's all right to address the 17 Commissioners Court, just -- we were informed of this reading 18 the newspaper last week, and so we've talked a little bit. 19 I -- yes, we would -- if it's a Commissioners Court choice to 20 do away with the interlocal, then we would like something in 21 writing to the City stating that -- you know, the 60-day 22 notice that you talked about, something in writing stating 23 that you're not interested in this for the next year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. We -- we just haven't 25 taken action yet. We're still -- 42 1 MR. ERWIN: Right. Right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in the discussion mode. 3 MR. ERWIN: Right. Right. We just -- as we're 4 working through our budget, same as you are, we would 5 appreciate notice as soon as possible once you make a 6 decision on this. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. Sure. 8 MR. ERWIN: And then we'll take a look at 9 everything. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 11 MR. ERWIN: All right, thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all for being here. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: While we're -- this is -- I 14 don't know if this is the specific spot in the budget, but 15 while we have some of the city folks here, I know y'all are 16 in the same budget scrutiny -- or scrutinizing your budget 17 like we are, and have looked under every rock, and, you know, 18 billing properly things that we haven't billed for in the 19 past in the EMS area. And I'm not going to -- you know, 20 that's fine. But I think, going forward, we may have to look 21 at the agreement that we have with the City related to Road 22 and Bridge. I think we need to look at that right now. 23 We're -- this year -- current year we're in, rough estimate, 24 somewhere $15,000 to $20,000 in labor and equipment that 25 we're giving the city, road work. And I think that's a good 43 1 program, but I don't know if we can afford to go forward 2 without recouping. I think it still economically makes the 3 most sense for the City to continue a joint project with the 4 County, but I don't know that -- you know, that we're going 5 to -- that I can support just going forward without getting 6 any compensation back for our -- it takes -- you know, like I 7 say, it's about $15,000, $20,000 this year. So, that's just 8 on the table as well for future revenues. That's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I feel pretty strongly about 10 that project. I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact 11 that our constituents reside within the city of Kerrville 12 also. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: This year is a problem, I know, 15 because we've used our Road and Bridge people to do a lot of 16 other tasks, and I know they're running behind on their 17 sealcoating, but I think they have every intention of getting 18 there. In fact, recent discussions that I had were in the 19 nature of trying to encumber some of this year's budget going 20 forward as much as 60 days in the next budget year to try and 21 accomplish this sealcoating through this year's budget. 22 But -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a good program, and you 24 did a good job. You were the driving force to get it -- kind 25 of get it off high center and get it moving. But it's just a 44 1 matter of -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: There's some economics attached to 3 it, no question, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not a -- it's a cost to 5 the county budget for something that is traditionally a city 6 expenditure. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and you know what goes 8 hand-in-hand with that, is I have no objection to helping do 9 those projects, and I think it's a good thing to do, but 10 whenever we do that, we don't put in our true cost. But 11 every time that the City, you know, contracts -- or we 12 contract with them to do something, it seems that there's 13 always administrative fees and all kinds of other things that 14 factor in that we don't even think about doing. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We never have. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Never have, but a lot of what 17 our increases are from the City are those things, just like 18 on the new E.M.S. deal. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the best example. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A big hit, you know, in one 21 year to go up that much. And, you know, we asked them to 22 increase their fees so that maybe we'd offset some of the 23 costs that we would incur, and so we don't know how that's 24 going to work yet in the coming year, because those new fees 25 haven't gone into effect. But, anyway, we don't -- we don't 45 1 do that sort of thing, but continually they tell us that 2 that's part of their charges. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's exactly what 4 they told us. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, I didn't pull that out of 6 the sky. I mean, that's -- that's -- I just think it's -- if 7 we're going to do it on one hand, it ought to be the same on 8 the other. And I don't know how we get to that, but I would 9 hope that we could. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure how to get 11 there either, but the last time when we kicked in Animal 12 Control in the city at no cost, another good example. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just threw that on the table 15 as something that needs to be in the back of our minds. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if we hire a new 17 mechanic, can we use him to fix up those old jalopy 18 ambulances that we buy? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: New ones. Buy them with the 20 County's money. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty's used car lot? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's gone. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, and the final two items 25 that I have on my -- my list is COLA. I feel very strongly 46 1 we need to give a COLA. It needs to be a real number. I 2 think that if we don't -- we've, you know, tried to be 3 consistent. We're still trying to get there. Linda's right 4 that we have some that we still haven't fixed that I thought 5 we fixed them. But I think the COLA is important. Along 6 with that, I think that we probably, on the -- I know we're 7 under a hiring freeze, and I suspect -- and my intent as that 8 goes forward, that'll be a limited reduction in force, but I 9 think we need to look at that carefully. That's where it is 10 right now. Maybe that's not right, but I think that we'll 11 have to start -- after we're through with the budget process, 12 we need to really start looking at some of these departments 13 and see if there is any area for reduction. But I think a 14 COLA is needed. And I think that, you know, somewhere -- I 15 don't know, one and a half to 2 percent. 16 And the final thing on my list is the -- in 17 addition to all of this, I think we're probably pretty close 18 to balancing this year at this point, but balancing isn't 19 going to get us there. Our reserves are extremely low, lower 20 than 11 percent. It's at a point that we are likely -- or, 21 you know, it's getting close to the point of us having to 22 borrow money in the fall just to make payrolls. We got 23 there, I don't think, through any mismanagement anywhere; I 24 think it was just that the economy and our fees, not just the 25 sales tax, but the fees that were generated have fallen. We 47 1 have to build that back. That does bring up a tax increase, 2 in my mind, and it's a -- I'm at 2 to 2 and a half percent. 3 I think that, you know, as much as possible, if the economy 4 rebounded, whatever, if we can get a little bit of revenue 5 the next couple years, I certainly hope we could roll that 6 back. That's not the right word; "rollback" has a different 7 meaning. But, you know, have a relatively short -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Reduce the tax rate. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reduce the tax rate. But as 10 part of that, the Auditor -- we do need to take a look at the 11 tax rate at Road and Bridge department and transfer that -- a 12 little bit of that to the general fund, an amount that is 13 sufficient for Road and Bridge reserves, but at the same time 14 help the general fund. That's my list for today. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the COLA cost? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 323,000, at two and a half. 17 MS. HYDE: At two and a half, it's 323. 323,000. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What screen are we on? 19 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 20 MS. MABRY: 31. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 22 MS. MABRY: 31. 23 MS. HARGIS: We don't have the 323 on the screen. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't -- I said 2 percent. 25 What I said -- 48 1 MS. HYDE: You said one and a half to 2 percent. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was just saying 2 and a 3 half is what they have here. 323. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two percent, I think, is pretty 5 close to where we are this year. I sort of think that's 6 really important. I think we have -- 7 MS. HARGIS: 1.5 is at 218,000. Two percent's 8 about half of that. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much? 10 MS. HARGIS: 218,237. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give us the number again, 12 Jeannie? 13 MS. HARGIS: $218,237. That's a 1.5. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 1.5? 15 MS. HARGIS: That's 1.5. We didn't do a 2. 16 MS. HYDE: Wait. 17 MS. HARGIS: She's almost there. 18 MS. HYDE: It's approximately -- you got to do 19 roll-ups. 20 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 21 MS. HYDE: $260,000. $260,000 for 2 percent. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 50 or 60? 23 MS. HYDE: Sixty. Six. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 219 versus 260, round 25 numbers. 49 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How much do we just trim off 2 of what we need to do to get back below with an excess over 3 ground zero? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure "excess" is a good 5 word this year. 6 MS. HYDE: Here's what we did. On the insurance, 7 the longevity, that gave us 137. I think that's what you 8 were asking, Commissioner Baldwin, a little bit earlier; 9 where was it all at. We got that down by the two known 10 positions. We left it zero on removing the fire truck, 11 because we didn't know. And then 19,000 in overtime got us 12 to 2,522. We zeroed that out as well, so that made -- those 13 -- those are a done deal if it's approved by y'all, at no 14 increase. 15 MS. HARGIS: And there was one other position that 16 was actually in the County Attorney's office. The new person 17 doesn't start at the same salary as the old one, so we had 18 enough of that to carry out for the 2,522. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, it's basically zeroed out 20 except for what -- 21 MS. HARGIS: Except for the COLA. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- what Commissioner Letz is 23 saying, a 2 percent increase for a COLA. 24 MS. HARGIS: Well, and the -- 25 MS. HYDE: You also save the 50,000. We also -- 50 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fire truck zeroed out up 3 there. That right there is your -- that is -- correct me if 4 I'm wrong. If you take all that into consideration, before 5 you take into account for a COLA, we have a ground zero based 6 budget under our present tax rate and what projected revenues 7 are. 8 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The fire truck's out of that 10 number already? 11 MS. HYDE: Right. There is no fire truck; we took 12 it out. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see a zero, but -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We had to do that to get to 15 zero. 16 MS. HARGIS: No, the fire truck we took out because 17 we didn't -- we didn't have a general consensus -- 18 MS. HYDE: Right. 19 MS. HARGIS: -- the day you weren't here, so we 20 took it out. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You weren't here. 22 MS. HYDE: So we took it out. 23 MS. HARGIS: Now, if we put that back -- 24 MS. HYDE: If you put it in at 135, but I don't 25 know how much you would want to give to the different 51 1 volunteer fire departments. 2 MS. HARGIS: We talked about four fire departments, 3 and maybe 15 each, or 20 to one, 10 to another. I don't know 4 how you want to do it. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're only getting 15,000 6 total apiece now. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think by contract, so 9 doubling that for some of them, I think it will be a little 10 rich. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, in that bottom number -- 12 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. It's just a 323 right now. 13 The 2,522 we already zeroed out. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the fire -- and the fire 15 truck's already been taken out of this next -- 16 MS. HYDE: No, sir, we have not put the fire truck 17 in any numbers to reduce any numbers. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're saying that they 19 agree with you; they've been taken out. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They haven't taken it out. 21 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did not take it out? 23 MS. HYDE: No, sir, we took a zero. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You took it out before you 25 got to the very bottom. 52 1 MS. HARGIS: No, we didn't. 2 MS. HYDE: See, "Remove truck and utilize VFD's." 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They haven't taken it out yet. 4 MS. HYDE: We haven't taken out any money. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now I'm with you. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I misunderstood too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So, that's why I kept on 8 going. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kind of confusing. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The turtle head comes out the 12 wrong end. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So we balanced 14 everything, and that included some of those goofy raises and 15 all of that stuff in there, right? 16 MS. HARGIS: No, the goofy raises have to be added 17 back in. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. What does that 19 do to the balance? 20 MS. HARGIS: We've got 48 -- I think I told you 48. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so, go ahead and add in 22 insurance and the reserves as well. 23 MS. HARGIS: All of the insurance is there. 24 MS. HYDE: Insurance is done. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 53 1 MS. HARGIS: Insurance is in. 2 MS. HYDE: The longevity is done, as long as y'all 3 approve it. Those two are done. 4 MS. HARGIS: The only thing we have left is the 5 4,859 and the longevity. Now, we have not removed the fire 6 truck, so if we take the fire truck at 135,000, where we're 7 at 60 days, we're probably going to owe them 15 days. So, we 8 take the fire truck as 135 in revenue. 9 MS. HYDE: We do have longevity there? 10 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have a COLA of 2 and a half 12 percent up on there. 13 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're down to 2. 15 MS. HARGIS: Two. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on another one, totals up 17 there on the longevities, -- 18 MS. HARGIS: The longevities. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that's 50,000, and law 20 enforcement education. How much does it gain -- gain the 21 county if we went to a four-year longevity, increased it one 22 year? Is there much of a savings if we bump it back a year? 23 MS. HYDE: Here's the difficulty. The way the 24 longevity was put in in 2000, some people did a longevity in 25 2000, but some people did longevities in 2001, so they're 54 1 split. So, this year and last year are your two big years 2 for longevity. Next year it'll be real little. 3 MS. HARGIS: Little. 4 MS. HYDE: You've got -- it's different. As far as 5 saving, it's going to kind of be pay me now, pay me later. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 7 MS. UECKER: Is that overtime reduction -- is that 8 everybody's overtime? 9 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm, everybody. 10 MS. UECKER: Okay. So on -- when they have to work 11 late at night for court, they'd just be forced to take comp 12 time? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 MS. HARGIS: If we could go -- I do have one 15 question. We talked about the educational ones that were on 16 the longer sheet. Remember, there were two there. Are we 17 going to give those? Because that would be more than the 18 4,859 if we add those two people in. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's -- an education is 20 an education. 21 MS. HARGIS: Then we need to add those in, so 22 that's a little bit more than the 48. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just say it's 7,500. 24 MS. HYDE: Those two. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is that? 55 1 MS. HYDE: 28. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 3 MS. HYDE: 28. 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 MS. HYDE: 7,823. I mean, we're right there. 6 MS. HARGIS: 7,823 on all those. Which -- 7,500 7 for all of them. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax increase, probably 600? 9 MS. HARGIS: It's $290,000 a penny. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say it again? 11 MS. HARGIS: $290,000 a penny. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Where are we? 13 MS. HARGIS: We're at -- we took the fire truck. 14 We got the fire truck, and if we take that off of the 260, 15 that leaves me 125 short, plus the 7,823. 132,823 short, no 16 reserves. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask, you got 18 longevity in? 19 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got education in? 21 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've got insurance in? 23 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you got a 2 percent COLA 25 in? 56 1 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now, what about 3 reserves? 4 MS. HARGIS: We don't have anything for reserves. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, let's hear it. 6 What do we need to do? 7 MS. HARGIS: Well, we're at 12 percent. If I add 8 -- on the original slide, when I asked for the 3 cents, and 9 that was if we were going to use 500. Now I don't need 500, 10 so -- I need 133. I'd like to see at least a half a million 11 go in there, because half a million barely gets us up a 12 percentage. I -- you know, I'm stretching it to ask for a 13 million, but I need to do that, because that's kind of where 14 we're at. We have -- we've lost -- combined with, you know, 15 the revenues and sales tax, we've lost close to a million 16 dollars. But I'll be happy with a half a million. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's it take to get the 18 half a million in there? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two and a half cents. 20 MS. HARGIS: Two and a half cents. At least two 21 and a half. 22 MS. HYDE: Three. 23 MS. HARGIS: Three would be better. Two and a half 24 is at 725. Keep in mind, you have minus the 133. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's rollback rate? 57 1 MS. HARGIS: Rollback rate's 5.6. That's the 2 maximum tax rate. It's not really a rollback rate; that's 3 the maximum tax rate that you could levy without getting into 4 the rollback rate. The rollback rate is .5 something. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you roll back -- if the 6 voters wanted to roll back, how far does it go back? 7 MS. HARGIS: To last year's rate. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is? 9 MS. HARGIS: .3971. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The same we're at today. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. And I didn't -- I put that up 12 there because that was the maximum tax rate in my original 13 slides, because I wanted you to see the maximum rate that we 14 could go. Not that you needed to levy it, but that was the 15 maximum. In this slide, you can see that three cents will 16 bring in 870. Keep in mind when you do this that there is a 17 -- you know, a 2 to 3 percent delinquency ratio, even though 18 we always collect 100 percent, that's delinquent coming in on 19 top of it. So, they're not going to really -- it's best to 20 think of your current revenue that you're levying not all 21 coming in at 100 percent in the year that you actually levy 22 it. It'll get there, but it generally takes two or three 23 years. Some people pay taxes every two years, depending 24 upon -- especially retired people, because they get -- they 25 want the tax consequences. It's unusual to me, but there are 58 1 a lot of retired people that do that. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 2 percent COLA's 260 3 grand. How much was the education? Just humor me here for a 4 second. 5 MS. HARGIS: The education and the longevity, which 6 has already been zeroed out, was $50,000. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Combined? Those two 8 combined, 50? 9 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the insurance? 11 MS. HARGIS: 82,000. Did you put that -- 87,000. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 87,000. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 87,000. 14 MS. HARGIS: Right here. 15 MS. MABRY: Page 23. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. 17 MS. HARGIS: So, I -- I hate to kind of force the 18 issue again, but we need a general consensus, as I said 19 before. In the newspaper, we need to put what you think you 20 -- is the maximum you would want to do, because -- you don't 21 have to do it, but then at least it's published. You can 22 always levy this year's tax in the middle of September, but 23 we need to publish these hearings. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you talking about the 25 tax rate that we're fixing to vote on here in a few minutes? 59 1 MS. HARGIS: You don't vote on the tax rate. You 2 just give us approximately what you might consider. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can vote on it. We have an 4 agenda item. 5 MS. HARGIS: You have -- okay. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The proposed rate. 7 MS. HARGIS: I forgot we had a recess, but we're 8 not there quite -- we're not there yet. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we can -- by law, we can 10 set that thing and we can adjust it up, but we can't adjust 11 it down. 12 MS. HARGIS: No, we can't adjust it -- you cannot 13 adjust it up. You can adjust it down. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Without holding additional 16 notices -- giving additional notices and all that. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that makes sense. 18 That makes sense. Judge, let me ask you a question, and then 19 you can ask them. I can't seem to get a straight answer out 20 of these people. They've made a lot of recommendations here, 21 and what is their recommendation on a tax increase to pay for 22 this? Maybe you can answer it. I haven't thought of that. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- the increase in the tax 24 rate would, in effect, go to the reserves. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. Well, you still 60 1 have -- yeah. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: By my calculation, if you -- based 3 on all these gyrations that have gone on, but I'm basing off 4 of 2 and a half percent COLA here, you'd need an additional 5 $200,000 to cover that, and the balance of it would -- would 6 go to reserves. 7 MS. HARGIS: Now, if you would like for me to tell 8 you what I'd really like -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know what you really want. 11 Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, tell us. 13 MS. HARGIS: Five cents. Actually, I like the 5.6, 14 because that would put a million in the bank, and that's what 15 we really need. But hopefully we won't have a huge trial or 16 anything break down drastically in the next year. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Insurance is a potential landmine. 18 MS. HARGIS: Insurance is a potential landmine. 19 We're kind of in one of those strange anomalies, to me, when 20 we only have one time a year to actually raise revenue. The 21 rest of the time we don't, so if we get hit with the 22 insurance in November or December, we have to absorb it. So, 23 we need to consider that. We have -- we have tried to guess 24 and be high on the insurance. I think that Gary Looney has 25 tried to give us the best possible scenario, because we're 61 1 still pretty far out on -- on our insurance. I would suggest 2 that perhaps next year we consider -- and I'll get shot for 3 this -- consider having our insurance have the same fiscal 4 year as ours instead of having the calendar year, because 5 that would make it a lot easier for us. We would actually 6 know what that amount is going to be. But right now, we do 7 not. I'm sure she doesn't want that, but it would -- 8 MS. HYDE: It really hurts our rates. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not there this year. 10 Worry about that -- 11 MS. HARGIS: Next year. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in six months. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is beginning to sound 14 like the congressional budget office in Washington, D.C. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just raise taxes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we set a number, we can't 18 raise it later on down the line, but we can lower it. So, 19 wouldn't it be wise to at least put the fire truck back in, 20 and we can always remove it at a later time? But we can't 21 add it back if, later on -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: You -- insofar as specifying the 23 proposed tax rate? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah. When you make your 62 1 initial proposed tax rate and set that, leave the options 2 open. Certainly, if you can do better, you can come off of 3 that some, or a whole bunch, depending upon what the 4 circumstances allow you. But if you need to go over, you got 5 to start all over. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What screen is that? 7 MS. MABRY: 19. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we're going to take the 9 truck out at any time, might as well take it out now so we 10 know exactly what we're dealing with in terms of our own 11 shortfall. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. That's fine; I 13 was just wondering, making sure I understood how the up and 14 down on all that worked. I was just using that as an 15 example. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option we can look at 17 is -- this will help some, not a lot, but delay the COLA 18 being the first of the year, or, you know, in the first 19 quarter. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done that before. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did it last year. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it helps our budget 23 situation, but it keeps the employees from getting behind. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got a percent and a half last 25 year that way, so that impacted another -- last year's for a 63 1 half year, one and a half percent, and then this year it's 2 all year, one and a half percent. 3 MS. HARGIS: Two percent. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You impacted last year's 5 budget -- this year's budget with last year's. 6 MS. HARGIS: Yeah. It's better to do it, really -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All at once? 8 MS. HARGIS: Because that's why we had to add the 9 rest of that one and a half; we had to refigure all the 10 salaries to make sure we had one full year with that one and 11 a half. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was only a half year last 13 year, and now it's a full year. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And year before that, there 16 was an increase; some people got 12, 13 percent. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How could that be? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How could that be? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Made adjustments. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Made adjustments. There was 22 a COLA, if I remember correctly, of 2 and a half. On top of 23 that, there was some people that got increased 10.38 percent, 24 and some of them got the 2 and a half plus the 10, some of 25 the hourly employees. Two years ago, the last time we had a 64 1 good -- pretty good size tax rate increase to cover that. 2 So, you know, it's not like that -- everybody had -- yeah, 3 you know, you can't always be up with everybody else, but my 4 goodness, every now and then we got to pull back a little 5 bit, I think, just like everybody else is being forced to do. 6 And I say that we -- you know, one of the suggestions I have 7 is to evaluate where we are in January, which is only a -- 8 basically a third into the year, and see if we need to reduce 9 staff at that point because we're going to be short of money, 10 or whether we're going to be in line. I don't think 11 government ought to be exempt from following the same rules 12 that business and other people have to do. I don't think 13 we're exempt. We don't like it. I'd hate for somebody to 14 lose their job, but you know what? I know exactly what 15 happens whenever businesses don't have work. They have to 16 let employees go, and that's what's happening nationwide. 17 And I just don't think that we ought to act like the federal 18 government, and we know better than the taxpayers, and 19 they're the ones that are footing the bill. We're all 20 servants, period. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you're going to do 22 that, though, today would be a good day to do it. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it works for me. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does me. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you, you know, this 65 1 continuing to just say, "Oh, just have another tax increase; 2 let's just keep increasing taxes because it's the fiscal 3 thing to do," it's not the fiscal thing to do, in my opinion. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think anybody is 5 making the case that way. But you've got to figure out how 6 you're going to offset the diminished revenue. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally understand that. 8 You do that with the -- several things. There's only two 9 ways; you either reduce your costs or you go up on taxes. 10 There ain't any -- any middle ground on that. So, you got to 11 decide, you know, what you can cut and how you can cut to 12 continue to provide basic services. It ain't going to be as 13 good as it was. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you can't -- you can't 15 focus on pencils and typewriters, either. It has -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, you got to do some major 17 cuts. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's been part of the 19 problem, nibbling around the edge. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I also think that in the past 21 several years, we have had -- actually, the last five years, 22 we haven't been increasing staff. We haven't been growing 23 unreasonably. We have been cutting staff back. Jannett is 24 out elections, but she's down three or four employees. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She's down four. 66 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Three now, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, you know, very few. 4 Our total -- I asked Eva to put together what our employment 5 has done the last six years, and yes, some of this -- some of 6 this is a little bit confusing, but if you look over on the 7 far right column, those are the increases or decreases net in 8 each department. And there are -- you know, Environmental 9 Health had an increase. Road and Bridge had an increase. 10 Animal Control's had -- and I don't know what Animal Control 11 had. Road and Bridge, Environmental Health, and Maintenance. 12 And those are the only areas we've had any kind of 13 significant -- and I.T. Those are where we've had increases 14 in employment. And I don't think that those -- you can -- 15 you know, you can look at what we've been doing county-wide, 16 that we -- we have been trimming every year. And, I mean, I 17 don't think that analogy of federal government is quite 18 right. I think we have been pretty fiscally conservative as 19 long as I've been a commissioner, in reality. And, you know, 20 I think this has been a very conservative court from the one 21 before that, even. So, you get to the point, there are 22 certain things -- I mean, you know, I might be able to find 23 one or two people we can maybe reduce. There isn't much. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the whole 25 issue. Where are you going to find them? You can't do 67 1 anything at Road and Bridge, you can't do anything with the 2 Sheriff, so what do you do? You're in the courthouse. 3 You've already done about as much as you're going to get in 4 the courthouse. Where are all these savings coming from? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are some. It's not 6 that we want to lose them, and I wouldn't want to have to be 7 the one to make that choice, but I will. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to face a time 9 either, and in any budget year, where we can't pay our bills. 10 Absolutely unacceptable. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- I agree with that, 12 but how you get to it is something else. And if you don't -- 13 if you don't increase, you don't -- if you don't give any 14 COLA's, you got some carry-over coming from the savings from 15 this year's budget that are going to go into reserves. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've been down that road 17 before. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we have, but I can't -- 19 it started out at 750,000. It went down to 600, and now it's 20 down to 500, and today it's probably down to nothing. Now, I 21 don't know that because I haven't heard the number today, 22 but -- 23 MS. HARGIS: I can't predict exactly what that 24 number's going to be, because I don't know what the people 25 are spending until after I get the bills. However, we've 68 1 already run into a shortfall in the Juvenile Detention, 2 because the numbers are down there, which is what is keeping 3 our revenue -- I mean our reserves a little higher right now, 4 is because we haven't paid for the housing. It's a 5 double-edged sword. We haven't been -- we don't have -- 6 we're not sending juveniles to the detention center, so 7 therefore, his revenue is now in half, so we're going to have 8 to send some of our reserves over to the juvenile detention 9 fund to be sure that they remain whole. You know, it's one 10 of those things where that is a cost center on its own, and 11 it needs to remain there so we know when it's making money. 12 We certainly don't want to be sending a lot of kids to 13 juvenile detention. Most of the children we have over there 14 now are from out of county. But we do have a shortfall 15 there, so we are going to have to -- we either put that in 16 this year's tax rate or I move it from this year. So, 17 Buster's looking at me very confused. Juvenile detention is 18 a separate fund. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not confused at all. I 20 just can't imagine us shifting money. How long is it going 21 to be before we realize that the thing is a sinking ship, 22 like the last time? 23 MS. HARGIS: It made money last year. It made 24 money last year. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just remember a few years 69 1 ago us purchasing the thing, and the County's credit went 2 under. We're not going to get that to point, are we? 3 MS. HARGIS: I wasn't hearing, so I don't -- I 4 don't know how to address that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The correct answer is, "No, 6 Commissioner Baldwin, we're not going to get there." 7 MS. HARGIS: That's why I'm -- we're simply going 8 to move the housing money that would have gone to him anyway, 9 some of that housing money over. It's not going to give him 10 a whole bunch of money; we're just going to transfer some of 11 it over to make sure that his revenues are whole. But that 12 all goes into part of the general fund, even though it was a 13 separate fund. It was set up that way when it was being run 14 on its own, and we're continuing to run it that way so we 15 know when -- as you said, if there is a problem, we can 16 identify it immediately. I think it's being run very well, 17 very frugally. Now, they're -- they realized that they 18 didn't have as many children, and so they have accommodated 19 that with reducing their supplies and watching what they're 20 doing very closely, and I think Kevin is doing -- I had a 21 tour over there. He's doing a great job of taking care of 22 that facility. I was very impressed. I -- you know, if we 23 have something that breaks down that we have, you know, in 24 the next two months, I can't predict that. I'll be excited 25 if we go in with 250,000 to 300,000. 70 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I need to correct the 2 record. In the comment on the acquisition of that Juvenile 3 Detention Center, you make a comment that the County's credit 4 was wrecked. What we did is we purchased a $5 million debt 5 for $2 million, and when we issued the new debt to make that 6 purchase, we borrowed the money at less than 3 percent in 7 2005. Now, granted, S & P got caught after the fact, as they 8 did up in Hood County, with not properly rating some issues. 9 But the issuance of that debt carried the same preferred 10 rating that the county had been used to getting on other 11 issues. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess my point is, 13 though, Judge, is that the problem with the facility didn't 14 arrive here until it was completely, totally too late. 15 And -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, yeah, how it got here was kind 17 of a train wreck; you're right. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I'm 19 talking about. After it arrived, we fixed things exactly the 20 way you just described, and very -- a lot of wisdom in that. 21 But the -- but the fact that the thing getting here when it 22 was, I mean, totally over, you know, it's like for years, 23 "You, Commissioners Court, mind your own business; it's none 24 of your business what's going on with the Juvenile Detention 25 Facility," to all of a sudden, "Here is the Juvenile 71 1 Detention Facility; guys, you've got a problem." 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of how it 3 arrived. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not "kind of;" it's 5 exactly how it arrived. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the solution was a good 7 one. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Solution was perfect. But 9 what I'm saying is, let's don't arrive any more. Let's keep 10 an eye on the thing, and keep us updated too. I mean, just 11 for fun. We're -- you know, Bruce and I kind of fell off the 12 log out there in western end of the county, but, you know, we 13 find the men's room and all that, the important things at 14 least. But I'm just concerned that that happened again, 15 'cause that wasn't a pretty thing to happen. Anyway, that's 16 what I was referring to. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On scheduling a little bit, we 18 have -- today we're going to set the tax rate, where we have 19 the -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Proposed tax rate. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Proposed tax rate. Proposed 22 tax rate. 23 MS. HARGIS: We need two days. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do we have the -- what's 25 our drop-dead date on the budget? 72 1 MS. HARGIS: On the budget? You have to have the 2 hearing -- I believe we have the hearing on -- originally had 3 the hearing on the 15th. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know y'all are doing a 5 lot of ciphering, but I'd like to have a little more time to 6 cipher again. 7 MS. HARGIS: We don't really have the time. We 8 need to get that in the paper. That one has got to be 9 done -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax rate's okay. I don't mind 11 doing that in the paper today. 12 MS. HARGIS: The budget itself, I have the budget 13 on here. We can probably go -- we have to have a public 14 hearing on the budget. We have to put that in the newspaper. 15 I mean, you actually approve it. You can go all the way up 16 till the 29th to approve it, of September, but not the tax 17 rate. I mean the budget. But we do have to have one public 18 hearing, and we generally have that first public hearing on 19 your first court date in September, which will be -- I 20 believe it's, what, the 13th or 14th of September. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't increase the tax 22 rate, we wouldn't have to have any hearings, would we? 23 MS. HARGIS: No, you'd have to have the budget 24 hearing regardless. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Except for the budget 73 1 hearing. 2 MS. HARGIS: Well, and you will have to have the 3 public hearing on the tax rate as well, because even the 4 effective rate would put you -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we leave the rate the 6 same, it's still going to raise more revenue than we made 7 last year. 8 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. But not -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's over $350,000. 10 MS. HARGIS: No, it's only $149,000. It's not 350. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 350,000 increase in revenue 12 if we keep the rate the same. That's exactly what you told 13 me in your office, and it's on paper. 14 MS. HARGIS: It's 149, after the certified roll. 15 It's 149. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Boy, it just changed, didn't 17 it? Half. This was only a week ago. 18 MS. HARGIS: I -- I never said 350 on the roll. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, now, now, now. I went -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor of, I mean, making 21 all the changes and coming up with a -- on making sure all 22 the numbers are correct, and looking at it. And I think that 23 the -- you know, I'm not sure I'm at the 3-cent tax increase. 24 I can probably go along with it today for the proposed tax 25 increase, but I think we need to look at the -- keep the 74 1 hiring freeze in place, which -- and look towards a reduction 2 in force. Because I think -- I mean, we've got to -- I don't 3 see our revenue picture improving this year. And -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: May not. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or not substantially. And we 6 -- we've got two or three years of good times just to get our 7 reserves back up. So I think, you know -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That happened for a long 9 time, and now we're -- now we're broke. So, we had one 10 reduction in staff today that we know for sure happened. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax Assessor. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's -- is anybody 13 requesting a secretarial type person? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did anyone request a 17 secretarial type person? I don't know all those titles. 18 MS. HYDE: No, sir. 19 MS. HARGIS: No. Just a maintenance -- the only 20 new person was a maintenance worker. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just was thinking 22 there's -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ought to not bring this up; 24 I'm probably going to get shot at the other end of the table. 25 You know, we talk about offices that are statutory, and there 75 1 are some things mandated by law that they all do in some form 2 or fashion. One that doesn't do that, that's Court 3 Compliance. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Court Compliance, because 6 that money is collected, and those statutory duties lie 7 within the County and District Clerk. That is not a mandated 8 office. That's a luxury. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not that they're not doing a 11 good job. I'm not saying that they're not -- you know, 12 they're not paying their way, but that is one that doesn't 13 really have -- and that's one that took some duties off the 14 County and District Clerk other than just collecting money. 15 Deal makers. There's $110,000 right there. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- I think you'd 17 have to keep -- you might be able to reduce one employee. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that depends on whether 19 we make a deal with the District and County Clerk. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- well, that's the 21 whole issue of continuing to keep it separate, and we reduce 22 the number. Whether you meld it back into District -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The County and District 24 Clerk, whether they're going to absorb that back into their 25 office, or if they could without an increase in staff. 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depends on how much you 2 want to grab there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason we did it was 4 because we were -- we were in -- at the time, it was 5 increasing our revenue. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which it did. Whether it -- we 8 continue or not, you know, who knows? That's kind of like 9 indigent health care. We added staff there, but that staff 10 member certainly more than paid for itself. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's -- we sure don't want 12 to monkey with that one. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm saying, you know, 14 that's -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't afford to monkey 16 with that one. That's what's bailing us out in a lot of 17 ways. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yeah. But, you know, 19 that's another one that's in that same category. You got to 20 look at the benefit for having it versus not. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's true. I just said 22 that's an area -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One to look at. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the only one I can 25 think of in this whole list, being fair, that does not 77 1 somehow come under statutory or -- or some kind of a law that 2 mandates that to be done by a separate office. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have anything more that we 4 need to consider on the budget workshop today? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One comment to Ms. Hargis. How 6 much of the Road and Bridge tax rate are you proposing that 7 we shift to the general fund? 8 MS. HARGIS: I'm going to have to look at it. 9 They're at .3220. And, of course, if we raise ours, I need 10 to be sure that they have enough in their beginning cash 11 balance coming forward. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 MS. HARGIS: So, I had suggested -- and it actually 14 did not get moved the year that we asked for it to be 15 moved -- at that .20. I mean, instead of it being .3220, be 16 just 32 -- .32. That will give us, I think, about a 17 hundred -- I think about 100,000. I'll have to look at that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 MS. HARGIS: So that's something we can consider, 20 but I need to be sure that Road and Bridge is healthy enough 21 that we can do that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 MS. HARGIS: And -- but -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Make sure it doesn't -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't want to -- 78 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't want to get to the 2 point where they can't -- they can't do their job and 3 maintain the roads. That is a separate -- I know a cent and 4 a half was taken some years ago; took a while to get back. 5 And they've been operating very well, but -- 6 MS. HARGIS: Leonard's rule of thumb on his is to 7 at least have a half a million that rolls forward every year. 8 So far we have managed to do that, to have a half a million, 9 and that half million allows him -- because if he has a road 10 or a flood, that's what he wants to use that money for. And 11 we do have some money in our permanent improvement fund, 12 which -- and I did pull some of that out and put it back 13 into -- actually to the juvenile detention instead of putting 14 money there this year, because we -- I've been here for four 15 years now. This is my fourth budget. We've never used any 16 of that money. Apparently, it was for vehicles and things of 17 that nature. And we've got such a big -- two big capital 18 issues, and we pretty much attacked most of our capital 19 issues. But we could leave that 100,000 there for things 20 like flooding and things of that nature, but this year I just 21 thought it was better spent to use that 25,000 towards either 22 the general fund or juvenile rather than putting it for 23 something we really don't need at this present time. I -- 24 and, again, regardless of the COLA's and freezes or anything 25 else, we really are a million dollars down, so -- even if we 79 1 take a lower rate. And, again, I'll take whatever you give 2 me, but it's coming across the listserv now. In order to 3 make it those three months, our payroll is a million, three, 4 and I have -- if I have only 2 million, I can't make it those 5 three months. So, that's kind of where we're at. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of it in a 7 nutshell. 8 MS. HARGIS: That's it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Next question, gentlemen. Are you 10 going to be in a position that you want to take formal action 11 on the proposed tax rate this afternoon? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't matter to me. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might as well. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to know what it's 18 going to be. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going to find out here in a 20 minute. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just stay tuned. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: The numbers that we use are just two 23 different numbers, one for Road and Bridge and one for -- for 24 Kerr County. So, we -- when we vote for the proposed tax 25 rate, the initial vote, we've got to specify both rates? 80 1 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Or just the total? 3 MS. BOLIN: Correct, both rates. 4 MS. HARGIS: Both rates. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Both rates. 6 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, she's going to be taking a 8 look at the Road and Bridge this evening. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you want to do it tomorrow 10 morning, is what you're saying? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the suggestion. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Recess it till tomorrow. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When are we here, at 10 o'clock 19 in the morning? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 o'clock. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We will be in recess until 10 a.m. 23 in the morning. 24 (Budget workshop was recessed at 3:20 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 81 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of August, 8 2010. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25