1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, August 23, 2010 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 23, 2010 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 6 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 7 4 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set a public hearing for revision of plat of 5 Tract 3 of Creekwood III subdivision, & Tract 6 of Creekwood IV Subdivision 9 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 set a public hearing for installing a stop sign at the intersection of Christian Drive and 8 Mountain Drive, Precinct 1 10 9 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set rates for pre-adjudication services for 10 contracting counties; approve Judge Tinley to sign contracts upon receipt from other counties 11 11 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 12 approve new contracts for pre-adjudication services for contracting counties 12 13 1.5 Presentation of petition regarding Crossing 14 Street Bridge 15 15 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve the contract between the Department of 16 State Health Services and Kerr County for the vital statistics records 17 17 1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 18 approve County Clerks Records Archival Written Plan for 2010-11 as submitted 18 19 1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 20 close Flat Rock Lake Park to the public beginning at 10 p.m. Wednesday, Jan. 19, 2011, to be reopened 21 on Jan. 22, 2011, so park may be used by Hill Country District Junior Livestock Association 19 22 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 grant 50' variance from plat note for West Creek Hills Tract 55B to accommodate O.S.S.F. drainfield 26 24 1.10 Consider/discuss, take record vote on proposed 25 2010 Kerr County tax rate; set dates and times of first & second public hearings on said tax rate 34 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) August 23, 2010 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 3 acceptance of Pam Cornett's retirement effective August 31, 2010, and the filling of her position 4 as chief deputy with Michele Schneider effective September 1, 2010 35 5 1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 6 reconsider Court Order #31841 allocating a portion of the unused space at new Kerr County Sheriff's 7 Annex as a fitness center for county employees 37 8 1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve a Universal Waste Minimization and 9 Disposal Policy for Kerr County 64 10 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for County Judge to approve Occupational Account 11 Contract with Boerne Urgent Care for physicals, pre-employment screens, workers compensation 12 injuries, and any other services requested or authorized by Kerr County officials 67 13 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 14 implementation of the burn ban 70 15 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve interlocal agreement for provision of 16 management services at the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport; ratify and approval of agreement by 17 County Judge 70 18 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with Pro South Construction 19 for repairs to Flat Rock and Ingram Lake Dams; accept contractor's bond 71 20 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 21 approve amendment to Freese & Nichols agreement for construction phase services for Flat Rock Lake 22 and Ingram Dams 72 23 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding retirement of an employee in the 24 County Attorney's office; presentation of retirement plaque 85 25 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) August 23, 2010 2 PAGE 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 3 approve Property Access License Agreement with Comanche Trace for a contractor staging/work area 4 to facilitate Flat Rock Dam repair 87 5 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on resolution in support of Hill Country Community 6 M.H.M.R. Center 89 7 4.1 Pay Bills 90 4.2 Budget Amendments 90 8 4.3 Late Bills -- 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 94 9 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee 10 Assignments 95 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads -- 11 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 12 property acquisition in east Kerr County for a Road and Bridge equipment yard (Executive Session) 99 13 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 14 regarding insurance issue on individual (Executive Session) 99 15 --- Recessed 102 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 On Monday, August 23, 2010, at 9:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, August 23, 2010 at 9 a.m. It is that 11 time now. If you would please rise and join me in a word of 12 prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance to the flag of 13 our country. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 a member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard on 17 any matter which is not a listed agenda item, this is your 18 opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. 19 For those that wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd 20 prefer that you fill out a participation form. They can be 21 found -- they should be able to be found at the rear of the 22 room. By filling that out and getting it up here, it helps 23 me to be sure not to miss you when we get to that item. But 24 right now, if there's any member of the audience or public 25 that wishes to be heard, if you'll come forward, give us your 8-23-10 6 1 name and address, tell us what's on your mind. 2 MR. McVEY: I'm Gary McVey; I live at 507 Westway 3 Drive here in Kerrville. I hold two well-paid elected 4 offices. I'm president of Kerrville South Community Action 5 Group, and also Precinct 1 Director for Headwaters 6 Groundwater Conservation District, but I'm speaking for 7 Kerrville South this morning. Our longtime member and 8 president, Tom Pulma, passed away this past winter. I became 9 president just -- and I've been on that board for a long 10 time. I just thought it would be appropriate to come and 11 thank the Commissioners and members of your staff for working 12 with us, and really would like to thank, first of all, that 13 we got the sewage disposal problem solved in Kerrville South, 14 part of it -- or most of it, thanks to Commissioners, 15 especially Bill Williams. So, one thing about a sewer 16 problem; you don't -- you don't have to, you know, get a lot 17 of consultants in and tell you you got a problem. (Laughter.) 18 Also, really superb cooperation from the Environmental Health 19 on getting rid of cars that have been around too long and 20 some of those things. Every third weekend of the month, 21 members of Kerrville South pick up the trash on the roads, 22 and we -- and we put up signs, and the Highway Department's 23 been very helpful with that, and picking up the bags of trash 24 and keeping our roads repaired. 25 And with that, I just wanted to mention that, but I 8-23-10 7 1 do have one safety concern. I for many years worked with 2 Habitat for Humanity and helped build about, I suppose, 25 3 homes over here by the National Guard Armory, and also 4 deliver Meals on Wheels, and I'm concerned about the safety 5 of some of these mobile homes that are out in the county. 6 And mainly, some of them, doors don't work, furnaces don't 7 work. And that, I know, is a -- it's a tough one, but I'm 8 concerned for the safety of the -- of disabled people that 9 live in them that I deliver meals to, like the door latches 10 don't work. I owned one of those and lived in it on a farm, 11 and one thing, I always made sure that I was strong enough to 12 kick the window out or get out the back door. So, I think 13 it's just something we need to -- the fire marshal and Turtle 14 Creek and trucks -- Kerrville need to think about. So, with 15 that, I just want to thank you for your cooperation on behalf 16 of Kerrville South Community Action. Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Gary. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there anyone 19 else that wishes to be heard on any matter that is not a 20 listed agenda item? Seeing no one else coming forward or 21 seeking to be recognized, we will move on. What do you have 22 for us this morning, Commissioner Baldwin? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not much, Judge. I'm 24 excited about this agenda today. It looks like that we have 25 some people's business to take care of, and I'm excited about 8-23-10 8 1 doing it. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. Nothing. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing special this morning. 6 Just what's on the agenda. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the Judge and I 9 attended the 4-H awards banquet on Saturday night. That was 10 a nice event. A lot of good kids, a lot of good parents 11 doing a lot of good things. That's it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: It was a good event. You'd be 13 amazed at the number of awards that were passed out. I see 14 we've got some folks that were active there the other 15 evening, and we appreciate the opportunity to be with you for 16 those awards. I was over in Austin last week. We had an 17 opportunity to briefly appear before the Public Utility 18 Commission on the CREZ lines, the transmission lines that 19 are -- the process is under way that we're involved in. I 20 was -- I was impressed by the professionalism and the 21 thoroughness and the openness and transparency of the 22 commission and its members in the way they operated. The 23 parting comment from the chairman to us was, "I can't 24 guarantee you'll like the result, but I can guarantee you it 25 will be a fair process." And I suppose that's all we can 8-23-10 9 1 really ask for. And, like I say, I was -- I was impressed 2 with their professionalism. So, that whole scenario will 3 play out over time, and we'll see how that develops. 4 Let's get on with our agenda, if we might. Our 5 first item is a 9 o'clock item; to consider, discuss, take 6 appropriate action to set a public hearing for the revision 7 of plat of Tract 3 of Creekwood III Subdivision, as set forth 8 in Volume 6, Page 244, Plat Records, and Tract 6 of Creekwood 9 IV Subdivision, as set forth in Volume 6, Page 290, both 10 located in Precinct 2. Mr. Odom? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning, Judge. At this 12 time, I'm asking the Court to set a public hearing for the 13 revision of plat for Tract 3 of Creekwood III Subdivision, 14 and Tract 6 of Creekwood IV Subdivision, for Monday, 15 September the 27th, 2010, at 9:30. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move -- so moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 19 public hearing on the matter for September the 27th, 2010, at 20 9:30 a.m. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 21 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move 8-23-10 10 1 to a 9:05 timed item, Item 2; to consider, discuss, and take 2 appropriate action to set a public hearing for installing a 3 stop sign at the intersection of Christian Drive, a privately 4 maintained road, and Mountain Drive, a County-maintained 5 road, and located in Precinct 1. Mr. Odom? 6 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Commissioner Baldwin's been 7 receiving some complaints about traffic moving out of a 8 private road -- or a private subdivision back into a county 9 road. This is similar to what we had up in Center Point 10 there on Skyline. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 12 MR. ODOM: And so at this time, we're asking the 13 Court to set a public hearing for the installation of a stop 14 sign at the intersection of Christian Drive and Mountain 15 Drive, Precinct 1, for -- I'm sorry, let me go back to the 16 other one. I don't have it on this one right here. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September 27th? 18 MR. ODOM: For September the 27th, 2010, at 9:35. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set a 22 public hearing on the matter for September 27th, 2010, at 23 9:35 a.m. Question or discussion on the matter? All in 24 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8-23-10 11 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's move to 4 Item 3; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to set 5 rates for pre-adjudication services for contracting counties 6 and approve Judge Tinley to sign contracts upon receipt from 7 other counties. Mr. Stanton? 8 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: This is at the Juvenile Detention 10 Facility? 11 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 13 MR. STANTON: As requested earlier -- at an earlier 14 Commissioners Court meeting, we went through and did some -- 15 made some phone calls about other counties, what the going 16 rate is for pre-adjudication services. The outgoing 17 prevailing rate for most counties is set at about $95 a day. 18 And I guess what I'm requesting the County Commissioners to 19 do is to change our daily rate that we're charging our 20 counties that contract with us right now from $90 a day to 21 $95 a day, to send out the new contracts starting September 22 1st. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: You want this effective September 1 24 or October 1? 25 MR. STANTON: October 1. 8-23-10 12 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 2 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to set the 6 pre-adjudication daily contract rate at $95 a day beginning 7 October 1, 2010. Question or discussion on the motion? All 8 in favor -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: October 1 or September 1? 10 MR. STANTON: October 1, so we can send out the 11 contracts, get them back and get the Judge to sign them. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on 14 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 20 Item 4; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 21 approve new contracts for pre-adjudication services for the 22 contracting counties. Mr. Stanton? 23 MR. STANTON: I wasn't sure -- I put this on here. 24 I wasn't really sure if it needed to be brought before 25 Commissioners Court or not. The County Attorney, 8-23-10 13 1 Mr. Henneke, has provided us with a new contract that we 2 would -- he would rather us use than the contracts we were 3 using prior to. And I don't know if -- I don't know if it 4 needed to be approved by Commissioners Court prior to us 5 using the new contracts or not. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I think it probably should. There 7 are some changes from the old contract format, Mr. Henneke? 8 MR. HENNEKE: Judge Tinley, there are, and I 9 revised -- we've made a template standard contract that can 10 be used by Mr. Stanton over and over by filling in the 11 blanks, depending on which entity, without having to come 12 back to the Court each time for new approval. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Just a matter of plugging in the 14 county that's going to contract for the services, 15 essentially? 16 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the new contract format. Question or discussion 22 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 23 raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8-23-10 14 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I presume -- I made the motion. 6 Does that include -- that includes authorizing the County 7 Judge to sign these contracts as they come in, I presume, 8 because it didn't really -- or do we need to bring it back to 9 us for that, or how do you want to -- we didn't talk about 10 signing them. We approve the form of the contract, but the 11 Judge still has to sign them? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they'll come back 13 when they're renewed, right? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, in the previous -- in a 15 previous agenda item, it authorized -- in addition to 16 changing the rate, it authorized me to sign the contracts 17 upon receipt from other counties. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So that one will cover 19 this new thing. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That will cover it, I think. Any 21 other question or discussion? Again, all in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 8-23-10 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you 2 very much, Mr. Stanton. 3 MR. STANTON: Thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 5; presentation of 5 a petition in reference to Crossing Street Bridge. 6 Mr. Gonzales? 7 MR. GONZALES: Yes, sir. Joel Gonzales. I 8 represent Center Point Bridge Committee and Center Point Park 9 Committee. I've got over 500 signatures right here on 10 petition. What it says right here, We, the citizens of 11 Center Point community, request that the Commissioners Court 12 stop TexDOT plans to replace our Crossing Street Bridge. On 13 this petition -- sorry, I'm new at this. But what is further 14 -- it said -- and we're giving this to the people that we 15 present this petition to. It says the Kerr County 16 Commissioners approved a plan to replace the Crossing Street 17 Bridge below the Center Point Dam with a new bridge that will 18 be wider, insure increased traffic, faster moving vehicles 19 and large trucks while you and your family use the bridge to 20 access the river. The Center Point citizens have asked the 21 County Commission to stop this project, keep the bridge 22 as-is, add a grate at the up-river flow pipes to protect 23 people from being pulled under the road, and remove the 24 debris and gravel from below the dam. The citizens of Center 25 Point are asking the Commissioners to enhance the Lions Park 8-23-10 16 1 to include playground equipment, horseshoe pits, volleyball 2 courts, paved parking, and boat launch. Please contact 3 Commissioner Bill Williams or your Kerr County Commissioner 4 and ask them to save the bridge and to support a plan to 5 build a beautiful city park that all can enjoy. That is what 6 we relayed to all the people before they signed the petition. 7 And since our last meeting in Center Point with 8 that, I have been adding, if anything, we would like the 9 bridge to be closed, you know, to traffic -- to vehicular 10 traffic. And that's what I've been adding on. And, again, I 11 have over 500 signatures that are against that. I have one 12 copy for myself. I can get another copy to give to whoever, 13 but I've got the original. If y'all need the originals, I 14 will give you the originals. I've got a copy of that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question. 16 MR. GONZALES: Yes, sir? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want us to do? 18 I can't -- I can't keep up with all that. Do you want us to 19 leave the bridge just like it is? 20 MR. GONZALES: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want -- 22 MR. GONZALES: Leave it just like it is, and -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or close it and keep it 24 closed to traffic? 25 MR. GONZALES: Yes, to car traffic. 8-23-10 17 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leave it like it is, and 2 then keep it closed to traffic? 3 MR. GONZALES: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which one of those two? 5 MR. GONZALES: Leave it as it is and close it to 6 car traffic. Not replace it, so that way we can walk on it. 7 Horse traffic. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 9 MR. GONZALES: And bicycles. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 11 MR. GONZALES: And that's it. We want to keep our 12 old bridge as-is. As-is. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. GONZALES: Anything else? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: You have the petition? Thank you, 16 sir. 17 MR. GONZALES: Thank you. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on that item, 19 gentlemen? Let's move to Item 6; consider, discuss, take 20 appropriate action to approve the contract between the 21 Department of State Health Services and Kerr County for the 22 vital statistics records. 23 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is just an annual 24 contract that we have to renew in order to be able to hook up 25 to Austin to issue birth certificates from them. The County 8-23-10 18 1 Attorney has approved the contract as-is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 5 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the 6 motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 12 to Item 7; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action 13 to approve the County Clerk's Records Archival Written Plan 14 for 2010-11 as submitted. Ms. Pieper? 15 MS. PIEPER: This is one of the formalities that we 16 have to go through every year in order to expend the Records 17 Archival fund, which is a dedicated fund. But I have to have 18 an approved order, and this will be the -- the second payment 19 of three. This is $67,445.35 that is allocated out of this 20 year for the new budget coming up. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 24 approval of the County Clerk's Records Archival Written Plan 25 for 2010-11. Question or discussion on that motion? 8-23-10 19 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These items are in the budget? 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes, they are. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Coming from the dedicated fund. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: From filing fees, and they 7 accumulate in there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: You're using those funds, right? 10 MS. PIEPER: Correct. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Other question or discussion? All 12 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Thank you, 17 Ms. Pieper. Let's move to Item 8; consider, discuss, and 18 take appropriate action to close Flat Rock Lake Park to the 19 public beginning at 10 p.m. on Wednesday, January 19th, 2011, 20 to be reopened on January the 22nd, 2011, so the park may be 21 used by the Hill Country District Junior Livestock 22 Association. Commissioner Oehler? 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. I was approached by 24 Steve Bauer and Bob Reeves about this plan. They're here, 25 and they're going to kind of -- they want to change up the 8-23-10 20 1 way they have the staging area for the stock show. And y'all 2 would, you know, kind of give us a rundown of what you're 3 thinking, and they're going to -- I think this is going to 4 make a big difference in the traffic. 5 MR. REEVES: Good morning. Thank you for allowing 6 us here. Ms. Pieper, if you would? As y'all know, if you've 7 been out to the show, we're continually growing, increasing 8 in the number of people that are exhibiting, and we need more 9 room to stage our trailers to keep them off public streets 10 while they're waiting to unload. The Appraisal District has 11 furnished us a map which we're passing around, and what we 12 would like is to have the Flat Rock Park closed for the days 13 of the district show, being Thursday and Friday of the show. 14 This way, we could get all trailers off the public road, move 15 them in as room allows, and then return them back to the 16 parking area. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All the parking for trailers 18 will be down in the park? 19 MR. REEVES: We may have to have some overflow 20 parking, Commissioner. Just simply, the past two years we've 21 run out of room, and parking on the opposite side of 27, I'm 22 afraid, would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To what extent have you 25 used Flat Rock in the past? 8-23-10 21 1 MR. REEVES: Just for the parking of the empty 2 trailers. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I thought. 4 MR. REEVES: But, you know, we need to line up the 5 trailers. We'll send 15, 20 or so at a time, when space 6 allows, for them to unload, as well as on Friday afternoon 7 for them to load the animals that aren't being sold. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the plan will be that they 9 use the road -- they'll line up on the road in the park, the 10 circular drive? 11 MR. REEVES: That's correct. And then working with 12 Mr. Bollier and anybody else, we'll figure a way for overflow 13 parking to not disturb anything. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the eastern area of the 15 park, the -- across Third Creek, is that going to be used? 16 MR. REEVES: I don't foresee that because of 17 trailer traffic. I drove down there, and I was surprised -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can amend it. 19 MR. REEVES: I was surprised at how many people 20 utilize the park. The large circular -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Drive. 22 MR. REEVES: -- path is what we're needing for 23 staging. We have arranged to have a 4-H group from Pathways 24 camp to come Sunday morning and clean up anything. We will 25 provide porta-pottys at the number that Environmental Health 8-23-10 22 1 would recommend, and placement, as well as portable 2 generators with lights. The only other thing we may need to 3 move in will be a small portable building for our volunteers 4 to handle the paperwork. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. So you'd only -- 6 across Third Creek, that part of the park would not be 7 closed? 8 MR. REEVES: I don't foresee it just because of 9 trailer traffic. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think this will be a big -- 12 a big change, and it'll also -- it will alleviate a lot of 13 congestion, plus it will stop people cutting in line. 14 They're planning on giving some tokens or some kind of a 15 clearance to unload, so that if somebody doesn't have that, 16 they won't be able to unload. And this, I believe, will get 17 the traffic off of Riverside Drive, so I think it's a good 18 plan. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My -- my question is, if we 20 close it to the general public, there are a lot of people who 21 use that upper section of the park for their animals and so 22 forth and so on. How do we accommodate them? 23 MR. REEVES: Fortunately, when the aerial 24 photograph was flown, that you can -- this was flown the day 25 of the sale in 2009, about five minutes before it started, so 8-23-10 23 1 roughly 1 o'clock. If you'll notice -- and y'all's copy may 2 be small; I'll pass out the larger copy. At noon on a 3 Saturday in January, there's a very limited number of cars. 4 We're going to have it during the week where it's getting 5 dark early, and I believe if we -- is there another access to 6 the park across Third Street, Commissioner? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Isn't there -- can you cross 8 there right at -- where you come down the hill from Third -- 9 is there still a gate there, or has that been blocked off 10 permanently? I'm not sure. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Coming off of Riverside 12 Drive down there by the bridge? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right where the old road used 14 to go to the boat ramp. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, there no access over 16 Riverside Drive there. You got to come in through the main 17 gate and work your way back up, or come up by the Swap Shop, 18 and that's pretty bad. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's not good. 20 MR. REEVES: I foresee by doing this -- and, Roy, 21 Steve, 5 or 6 o'clock, most of the traffic will be through? 22 MR. BAUER: On Friday, yes, sir. 23 MR. REEVES: Well, on Thursday unloading, and then 24 on -- 25 MR. BAUER: On Friday as well. 8-23-10 24 1 MR. REEVES: -- Friday. And by that time in 2 January, it's dark anyway. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the people could -- I 5 mean, I think not many will want to use the park because of 6 the traffic that's going to be there. If someone wants to 7 use it, they can park, as long as they park where the boat 8 ramp area is, outside the fence. We just have to have 9 controlled access into the park. People can still use it if 10 they want to. In that part of the park, all dogs have to be 11 on a leash, I believe. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not a problem. I mean, 14 I wouldn't want dogs rungs around the livestock, but if 15 they're on a leash, it shouldn't be a problem. So, I mean, I 16 think it's -- basically, it's closed to vehicular traffic. 17 If they want to park and walk along the water, I don't see 18 that being a problem, really. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. Well, it's just a 20 security thing too, for all the people that have, you know, 21 high-dollar trailers and things that -- and they'll have 22 security at the gate as well. So, they're going to make sure 23 that the people that are in there -- driving in there have 24 business in there. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why can't we go that 8-23-10 25 1 direction and close it to -- close it to vehicular traffic 2 other than the stock show people? So that they -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. That's okay with 4 y'all, isn't it? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That will protect that 6 area. Is that all right? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That time of year, it's 8 usually not -- the park is not used quite as much as it 9 is -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's a little chilly 11 some days. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sometimes during stock show 13 it's kind of rainy and cold too, but if people want to do it 14 walking, I don't have a problem with that. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm okay with it, just so 16 we let those people in. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I move approval of the 18 agenda item as we discussed. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Question or 22 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion, 23 signify by raising your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8-23-10 26 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 3 MR. REEVES: Thank you, gentlemen. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Reeves. That brings 5 us right to 9:30, by golly. So we'll take our 9:30 item, 6 Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 7 grant a 50-foot variance from plat note for West Creek Hills, 8 Tract 55B, to accommodate an O.S.S.F. drainfield. State law 9 requires a minimum of 75 feet setback from the creek. 10 Commissioner Williams? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Garcia, are you here? 12 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The backup material that we 14 provided the Court indicates that there is a plat note on 15 this -- on this West Creek Hills Tract 55B that goes way back 16 to 1989, and the plat note established a minimum of 125 feet 17 from the edge of the creek. I believe state law says that 75 18 is enough; is that correct? 19 MR. GARCIA: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so these folks would 21 like to be able to use that for a drainfield. They've been 22 working with Ray. I believe they've got the approvals they 23 need -- right? -- for construction. 24 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so that's the variance 8-23-10 27 1 we're asking for, to come back to 75 feet, which is state 2 law. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there some kind of a rule 4 that -- that's there's a setback from a water line? 5 MR. GARCIA: That's it. Table 10 of the rule 6 states 75 foot. It's a minimum setback for -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But, I mean, is this a water 8 line that provides water to the house? Or is that -- 9 MR. GARCIA: We're talking about the creek. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The creek on this little plat 11 here? 12 MR. GARCIA: I don't have it. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Here. 14 AUDIENCE: That is the creek. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The water line, that's what 16 you're saying, is the creek? 17 MR. GARCIA: That's the setback to the creek. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 19 MR. GARCIA: I'd like to add also that I had 20 U.G.R.A. test the creek also for E. coli counts, and the 21 count came back with 91 colonies of E. coli per 100 22 milliliters, which is well below the state standard. State 23 standard is 394. So, there's no problem with the creek 24 either. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the 8-23-10 28 1 variance. 2 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, Commissioners, I'd like to 3 make a point. I've discussed this with Mr. Garcia, and also 4 with the property owner. Because this was recorded as a 5 note, it was part of the plat that was approved, and I 6 haven't looked at this for a period of time, but I remember 7 that when I first looked at that, my reaction was that this 8 can be done because the state standard is 75 feet, not 125 9 feet. But because it's a note that's recorded as part of the 10 plat itself, my opinion then was that it needed to be an 11 amended plat done to remove that note, and then -- and then 12 they'd have to comply with the state standards. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you talk to the 14 property owner about that? 15 MR. HENNEKE: I -- Commissioner, it's been so long; 16 I know I had the conversation with Mr. Garcia, and I think 17 that there was a representative of the property owner that 18 came and spoke to me about it at the time that I was 19 researching it. And I don't recall if I spoke to him about 20 that, or if I spoke directly to the property owner. I think 21 it's been probably six weeks or longer. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your preference would be to 23 do an amended plat, as opposed to a variance? 24 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Withdraw the motion. 8-23-10 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- why can't you do a 2 variance? Is it a -- if it's a plat, we're -- 3 MR. HENNEKE: It's already been recorded as part of 4 the property records as part of the plat. I mean, if it's 5 being submitted for consideration, you could do a variance 6 ahead of time, but in my opinion, looking at that, because 7 it's already recorded as one of the notes that's on record, 8 then it's already been, you know, made part of the property 9 records for that tract and would need to be, you know, 10 deleted, essentially, by amending the plat to remove that -- 11 that note. Accomplishes the same thing. It absolutely can 12 be done; 75 feet is the state standard. I'm not saying 13 there's any opposition to it. I just said that my 14 recollection when I looked at this was that the proper 15 vehicle to do so, and it wouldn't even require there being a 16 variance granted, would just be to do an amended plat that 17 would delete that note, and then, of course, they would have 18 to conform with the state standards. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the only difference I 20 see is a -- doing -- if do you an amended plat, we have to do 21 a public hearing and then redo the plat. It's just -- it 22 seems -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Little bit more cumbersome. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- more cumbersome, but if 25 that's what we need to do, we -- 8-23-10 30 1 MS. PIEPER: If you don't do it, then somebody who 2 comes in and pulls the plat are not going to know to look at 3 the Commissioners Court order for this variance. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we're not -- we're not 5 changing the plat note to make it conform to state standards 6 of 75 feet. We're granting a variance as to one tract for 7 the benefit of the Environmental Health people to facilitate 8 permitting of an individual waste disposal system. 9 MR. HENNEKE: But essentially, Judge, the note 10 affixed to the plat creates a condition more burdensome than 11 what the state standard is. So, it's not -- I think what the 12 motion -- or what the proposal is, is not to grant a variance 13 from the state standard. What the proposal would be would be 14 to grant a variance from the note. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The plat note. 16 MR. HENNEKE: The note recorded as part of the 17 plat. And that plat note has been recorded as part of the 18 property records and is affixed to that -- that plat and 19 those records, and is what's on file, as Ms. Pieper pointed 20 out, until it would be -- it would be changed. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is this an existing -- this 23 house had an existing system that was failing? Or why are we 24 doing the new system? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a new system. 8-23-10 31 1 AUDIENCE: He's just building a guest -- kind of a 2 garage apartment next door to his house, and he just needed 3 an extra -- another septic system for it. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: New improvements. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's no way to move those 6 drainfields and turn it differently for your inlet and outlet 7 to move it a little bit more away from the property line? 8 AUDIENCE: No, sir. I wish there was. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You've got it as -- because 10 then you have, what, a setback from the -- you have a certain 11 setback from the driveway as well? 12 AUDIENCE: The slope is wrong. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, okay. Well, see, I can't 14 see anything but a flat piece of paper. 15 AUDIENCE: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just trying to figure out a 17 way to make this work. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess you can make it 19 work either way. A less cumbersome way is to grant a 20 variance from the original plat note. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: As to this one tract. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As to the one tract only. 23 Doesn't require any platting action. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. We would just be 25 giving a variance because of the circumstances, and they 8-23-10 32 1 really can't fix it any other way, unless they go through -- 2 I mean, the same thing is accomplished if they go through the 3 whole amended plat process as what would be accomplished by 4 granting a variance. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. But you -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But it costs a whole lot more 7 and takes a lot more time. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Puts the property owner 9 through a few more hoops. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see what Rob is saying, 11 though, from a subdivision standpoint. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it, but -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see what his point is. I'm 14 trying to think through it. I can't -- we give variances on 15 the creation of a plat, but we're going in after the fact and 16 giving a variance on a lot. 17 MR. HENNEKE: On a condition that's been recorded 18 as part of -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's already recorded. 20 MR. HENNEKE: -- the restrictions on that plat. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is a little bit 22 different. We generally don't give variances, I guess we'd 23 say, after the fact. You know, I don't know why we couldn't 24 do it -- a variance on it and why you can't record the court 25 order in the plat records. 8-23-10 33 1 MS. PIEPER: I can do that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would take care of it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But as long as I get a nod from 4 the County Attorney that we can legally do it, but I'm not 5 sure that he's there yet. And I'm trying to figure out -- if 6 it was like a -- well, the problem is it's on the plat. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 8 MR. HENNEKE: Exactly. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has nothing to do with 10 whether the system will be put into state standards and pass 11 all inspections and all of that and be environmentally safe, 12 which is what we want to accomplish, the intent of the rule. 13 MR. HENNEKE: The problem is that there's an 14 encumbrance, essentially, on -- on the plat that's recorded 15 as part of that plat, and that encumbrance needs to be 16 removed so then they can build according to state standards. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's basically the same 18 situation as if there's a plat note that says it's got to be 19 120 foot right of way. If we go in after the fact and -- and 20 change that, just on one -- for one tract, and narrow it to, 21 you know, change the right-of-way, that's a more drastic type 22 thing. Now, I don't know that we've ever -- I don't recall 23 looking at one that we've done with a plat note. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is, 10 years 25 down the road, when the owner comes in and wants to change or 8-23-10 34 1 sell or whatever, what are they going to see when they pull 2 up the plat? 3 MS. PIEPER: If you do a variance, then I can take 4 the Commissioners Court order and I can scan it in as a 5 second page to that plat. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or amend the plat. 8 MS. PIEPER: Or you can amend the plat. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many lots are left in the 10 subdivision? Anyone -- what's the subdivision look like? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many lots? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it all built up? Or -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the only one in 14 question. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm probably going to go 16 with the County Attorney on this deal. It seems like to me 17 it's -- it's a cleanup for the future. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if that's the case, 19 then we'll have the gentleman bring it back as a revision of 20 plat, make it fly that way. A little more cumbersome, but 21 it'll fly that way. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court have 23 anything further on that particular agenda item? Let's move 24 to Item 10; consider, discuss, take a record vote on proposed 25 2010 Kerr County tax rate, set dates and times of the first 8-23-10 35 1 and second public hearings on said tax rate. Are we ready to 2 go there, gentlemen? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be to do 4 this after the budget workshop this afternoon. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's kind of my thinking. 6 I'm not sure we're ready to go there yet. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not exactly. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll pass on that one for 9 now, go to Item 11; consider, discuss, take appropriate 10 action on acceptance of Pam Cornett's retirement effective 11 August 31, 2010, with the Tax Office, and filling of her 12 position as chief deputy with Michele Schneider effective 13 September 1, 2010. Ms. Bolin? 14 MS. BOLIN: Ms. Cornett gave me her resignation -- 15 or her retirement request a couple of weeks ago due to her 16 husband's health has declined quite suddenly, and she wishes 17 to be home with him. Michele has been with the office for 18 almost 10 years, and she has been in training for Pam's 19 position for the chief deputy position, knowing that Pam had 20 planned on retiring in the future, within -- she could 21 probably give you the months and dates. But I am requesting 22 -- I sent each of you an e-mail before I left last week, and 23 I'm just requesting that I can pull Michele over as a 19-2. 24 Pam is a 19-8. And based on the differences between what 25 Michele is making and what Pam is making, and not filling 8-23-10 36 1 Michelle's position, that would be a savings to the -- based 2 on the 2009-10 position schedule, it would be a savings of 3 $37,000 to the County for the upcoming budget year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, your plan is not to 5 replace -- 6 MS. BOLIN: Not to replace. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Ms. Schneider? You'd 8 move her up? 9 MS. BOLIN: Correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She moves to a 19-2 from a? 11 MS. BOLIN: 17-2. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's a good plan, 13 myself. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would -- she wouldn't go to 15 a 19-1? 16 MS. BOLIN: I'd prefer 19-2, since she's already 17 been in training for about almost a year now. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can go along with 19-1. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think our policy kind of 20 goes 19-1. And it's -- I mean, it's an increase, and then, 21 you know, she starts on that ladder at a higher level. I 22 mean, I think other than that one little minor change, which 23 obviously is a financial impact, that makes sense to me to go 24 to a 19-1. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 19-1 is all right with me. 8-23-10 37 1 MS. BOLIN: 19-1? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion we approve 3 the agenda item, setting Michele Schneider as chief deputy at 4 a 19-1. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 7 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in 8 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 13 MS. BOLIN: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go now to Item 12; to 15 consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to reconsider 16 Court Order Number 31841 allocating a portion of the unused 17 space at the new Kerr County Sheriff's Annex as a fitness 18 center for Kerr County employees. Commissioner Oehler? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this will be the third 20 time, but I don't think that -- that we got all the 21 information we probably needed in the beginning to make a 22 real informed decision, and I've been out and visited with 23 the Sheriff, been over his plan, been to see a facility that 24 was similar to what he wants to do out there. And the County 25 Attorney has looked deeper into this, and I think has some 8-23-10 38 1 thoughts about what -- just basically information to give us 2 so that we know, if we stand with the approval, what some of 3 the implications are. And I just think it's a good exercise 4 to get all the knowledge we can get before we -- this 5 actually happens. 6 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, Commissioners, y'all had asked 7 me to look at the liability issues involving having a 8 training facility at the annex next to the Sheriff's Office 9 for -- for the use there, and what I'm reporting to the Court 10 is issues with regard to liability. The benefits, whether to 11 do it, that's a policy consideration. That's something for 12 y'all to make, and I'm not making any comment on that. But 13 there were some questions that were raised, and I've 14 addressed those to y'all, and I wanted also to brief you on 15 what those are. First of all, with regard to general 16 liability, the Sheriff's -- Sheriff's training facility is 17 covered just like any other Kerr County facility; Ag Barn, 18 courthouse. We've got the general liability policy, and 19 that's, of course, going to be part of the Kerr County 20 facility. Likewise, if someone would -- would get hurt there 21 and would need, you know, care from a doctor and they're on 22 our insurance plan, of course, that's going to be covered 23 under the insurance plan, the same way it would be covered if 24 they were mowing in their back yard or working out at another 25 facility. 8-23-10 39 1 Finally, as far as liability goes, there is no 2 difference to it being used only by law enforcement people 3 versus all Kerr County employees when we're talking about 4 liability, general liability to the County. There's no 5 difference there. As I -- as I mentioned, and I know the 6 Sheriff is in agreement, there need to be policies in place. 7 There needs to be warning signs. There needs to be waivers 8 that someone would sign before they could use it, where they 9 would be acknowledging that there would be risk of injury or 10 releasing the County from any harm, and also encouraging them 11 to go get a physical, consult with their doctor. And, you 12 know, all the signs, all the disclaimers, everything that you 13 would expect to see in there would need to be there. But if 14 someone is -- you know, any county employee exercising on 15 their own free time uses it, then there's no greater 16 liability for that than to just restrict it to law 17 enforcement. 18 Now, there are a lot of benefits to this, and I 19 recognize that. It doesn't go into the legal issue, and 20 that's really what I'm discussing with you, but I recognize, 21 absolutely, the more fit, the more healthy our employees are, 22 there's a benefit to the county as far as, you know, decrease 23 in health insurance costs, and specifically with regard to 24 law enforcement, their ability to more effectively protect us 25 and -- and execute the duties of their job. You know, 8-23-10 40 1 there's less of a risk of injury, and there's also -- it 2 helps us in our liability if the Sheriff's deputies and the 3 jail officials are better fit and better able to respond to, 4 you know, some of those situations that the Sheriff showed us 5 at the last Commissioners Court meeting. Furthermore, it is 6 a good idea, what the Sheriff is planning on doing, as far as 7 implementing mandatory fitness standards that his deputies 8 and jail officials will have to meet. That is a good idea. 9 That is something that we should do, and is something that 10 will better protect this community. 11 Now, standards as far as requiring -- and I'm 12 making these up, but somebody to run a mile or do a certain 13 number of push-ups or chin-ups or, you know, general fitness 14 standards that the Sheriff says that he's going to put into 15 place for his employees to be held accountable to, he's going 16 to do that. That can be done in place. So, that's -- I'm 17 recognizing that there are those -- those benefits. I'm not 18 talking about legal issues, but those issues are out there, 19 and he's recognized that. Now, where the liability issues do 20 come up -- I just want to make this Court aware of this. 21 First of all, when -- and my understanding now, learning more 22 about this and having listened to the Sheriff during the 23 Commissioners Court, and also met with him, is -- is this is 24 part of a greater scheme of putting into place a -- not just 25 having a place for people to work out, but putting in a 8-23-10 41 1 training and fitness program to insure that his deputies and 2 his jail officials are fit and do meet the fitness standards 3 that he's going to put into place. 4 When the training and exercise happens during a 5 period of time that that person is being paid by Kerr County, 6 whether it's the person teaching the class or it's whether 7 the person's taking the class, or even could be construed if 8 the person taking the class is doing so, quote, off the 9 clock, but the person teaching the class is one of their, you 10 know, supervisors, and they're on the clock, if they get hurt 11 exercising -- and, Commissioner Baldwin, I think you know 12 we're talking kind of a True Fit type program that you're 13 familiar with and that kind of setup. If they get injured 14 while they're on the clock, then that is going to be -- I 15 think we should assume that that will be a workers comp 16 claim. Yes, a lot of things can be considered a workers comp 17 claim. This is going to be adding another thing to the list 18 of what could potentially be a workers compensation claim, as 19 opposed to if someone was at a private facility on their own 20 time working out and training to try to make these standards 21 and they got hurt there, then there would be less of a case 22 that that would be considered. So, there's potential 23 liability there, just liability I think this Court needs to 24 be aware of. 25 The other thing this Court needs to be aware of is, 8-23-10 42 1 we should have these fitness standards for the deputies and 2 the jail officials to meet. But I've reviewed the case law; 3 I've researched into it. I've looked at the Parker case that 4 the Sheriff has cited out of -- the 1988 case from D.C. -- 5 from, excuse me, the District of Columbia. I've also 6 actually researched Texas law and the 5th Circuit case law 7 with regard to, does Kerr County have a duty to provide a 8 workout facility and provide a training facility for the 9 employees to use in order to be able to meet these fitness 10 standards? And the answer to that is no. Does that mean we 11 shouldn't? No, it doesn't mean that. It just means as far 12 as a legal duty to provide this facility and provide these 13 classes and providing this training versus having the 14 employees on their own be accountable for meeting their 15 standards, just because we have the fitness standards does 16 not mean, under current, recognized 5th Circuit and Texas 17 law, that we have to give them, you know, workout classes and 18 have to make that part of their employment duties and have to 19 give them time during the day to work out. Can we? Sure. 20 That raises the worker's comp issues, but other 21 than that, all the other liability issues that I've worked at 22 -- looked at are covered in the same way that all liability 23 issues are covered for -- for Kerr County, our Kerr County 24 employees. I think that addresses the major issues. I know 25 the Sheriff's still implementing and revising the policy. I 8-23-10 43 1 know there's been discussions about that. But, you know, 2 with everything being properly set up, yes, Kerr County can 3 do this, but is not required to do so. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henneke, my sense of your 5 message is that the real -- the real variable here is the 6 possibility of workers comp coverage coming into play on an 7 employee other than jail or Sheriff's Office. 8 MR. HENNEKE: Well, as I understand it, Judge, I 9 think the idea is it's going to be limited only to deputy 10 sheriff officials -- the jail and the deputy officials. Were 11 it opened up to all Kerr County employees, that would not 12 create any greater liability for Kerr County, as long as it 13 was mandated that for anyone else in the county, if they go 14 to use it, they use it on their own time, off the clock, not 15 during the lunch break. They sign a waiver. They are 16 encouraged to check with their doctor. You know, if they 17 want to use it, they could go use it, just like they could go 18 use any other facility. The workers comp comes into where 19 you have either someone that's on the clock training or 20 teaching the class, and they get hurt during -- during that, 21 or even -- because it's a Kerr County facility and it's being 22 taught by Kerr County Sheriff personnel, even if a deputy 23 might be on their own time, in the whole totality of the 24 circumstances, it still might be considered to be, you know, 25 on the job. And then if they got hurt on the job, just like 8-23-10 44 1 any other injury on the job, it would -- it could be workers 2 comp liability for the county. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: As long as the non-S.O. or jail 4 personnel are doing it in accordance -- using that facility 5 in accordance with an appropriate policy, with the safeguards 6 you've talked about, the waivers, off the clock, on their own 7 time and so forth, and were not, say, participating in a 8 program being suggested or instructed by one of the S.O. 9 people, but merely doing something on their very own, totally 10 separate and apart from any activity the Sheriff's program 11 may be, you think we're relatively safe from a potential 12 workers comp claim then? 13 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. An employee who's not 14 working, off the clock, on their own free time, we should be 15 clear on those issues. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's one other 17 point that you made in your memo, Mr. Henneke. "I have 18 strong concerns regarding any classes being taught or 19 workouts being led by K.S.O. officials when Sheriff's Office 20 would, at the same time, have mandatory fitness requirements 21 that each deputy..." and so forth and so on. You said -- and 22 you go on to talk about, first of all, it has been said that 23 Kerr County Sheriff's Office officials have been trained as 24 personal trainers and will be leading the classes. This 25 cannot happen, says you. 8-23-10 45 1 MR. HENNEKE: And I -- I'll explain that. That 2 creates new liability where liability does not currently 3 exist as far as workers comp claims. And the point that I 4 was making in my memorandum to the Court was that, you know, 5 looking out for the liability and creating liability where 6 there's not any that exists, when we -- when the Sheriff -- 7 or if we proceed forward with this, there will be a new area 8 where someone could get hurt, and it could be a workers comp 9 claim. That being said, sure, someone can get hurt, you 10 know, getting out of their chair to go get -- you know, at 11 their office, or deputies certainly put their lives in danger 12 every day defending us, and the jail staff within the jail. 13 So, there's a myriad of workers comp concerns that are out 14 there. This creates a new one. And if the Court is 15 comfortable with that, especially given, you know, the 16 positive offsets that this Sheriff has outlined, but if the 17 Court is comfortable with, you know, the recognition that if 18 someone's working out and they get hurt, you know, we can be 19 liable for that, then -- then that's full disclosure and 20 something for -- for this Court to be aware of. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What happens also whenever 22 it -- from what I -- a conversation I had with the Sheriff 23 last week, whenever employees are being compensated on both 24 ends for the training, and also for the instructing during 25 work time? I mean, that's another thing that -- if we allow 8-23-10 46 1 that to happen, you know. And what guarantees do we have it 2 won't happen? I mean, the Sheriff told me they would be 3 doing -- the deputies and jailers would be doing it during a 4 shift, or using four hours of time that they would have to 5 work a four-hour shift to dedicate one hour a week to go do 6 this, so they're actually being paid; they're actually on the 7 clock whenever they are working out. And also, from what he 8 told me, the instructors are going to be given an hour off 9 early that day to go do this, so they're on the clock too. 10 My question is, if this -- if we're paying people to work out 11 and also to instruct workouts, would we not have to do that 12 for all the other employees? 13 MR. HENNEKE: Well, the answer to that, 14 Commissioner, is -- is no. I mean, the duties -- the job 15 duties for every department or every elected official are set 16 according to that department, and so, you know, the Sheriff 17 determining that it's within the job duties of his employees 18 to teach these courses and to participate in the -- in the 19 training program, if that's how -- you know, what he expands 20 the job duties to do so, then that can be the job duties for 21 those deputies and those jail officials. And, certainly, you 22 know, that's not a -- just 'cause we do it there doesn't mean 23 we have to do it for the County Attorney's office. But it 24 does, you know, set one department that has this. Other 25 departments won't. But, of course, there is the reason for 8-23-10 47 1 what the deputies and the jail staff have to encounter, and 2 there's a basis for that; that, you know, the County Clerk's 3 office don't deal with the same situations as far as the 4 people that are incarcerated or being out there providing law 5 enforcement. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me hit this another way. 7 Whenever somebody is hired to do a job, normally they have to 8 have certain skills to be able to have that employment. You 9 don't hire, you know, somebody that uses a 10-pound sledge to 10 do brain surgery. So -- you know, and should those 11 requirements be met before that person is employed or during 12 the employment, or is the employer responsible to see that 13 they meet those requirements -- 14 MR. HENNEKE: In this situation -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- on the job? 16 MR. HENNEKE: In my opinion, the standards can be 17 set as far as the fitness standards go. The Sheriff could 18 implement those fitness standards at any point in time. 19 Either you'd have to meet them beforehand, or for existing 20 employees, you have to meet them tomorrow, or we're going to 21 give you one or two or three years to get up to speed on 22 them. But there is not a legal duty to provide a training 23 and a fitness program or a facility or equipment to allow 24 them the opportunity to meet those standards. I mean, if 25 you've got to run a mile in 8 minutes flat in order to be a 8-23-10 48 1 deputy, then -- and that's the Sheriff's rule, and that 2 policy applies to everybody, then you have to do that whether 3 or not Kerr County has an exercise facility or not. That's 4 just the requirements, and that's the rules. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's kind of what I 6 thought. I mean, you -- there are certain requirements. 7 It's up to the person to meet those requirements, and not for 8 the employer to see that those requirements could be met on 9 the job. 10 MR. HENNEKE: And those requirements are a good 11 idea. It's a good idea for our deputies and our jail staff 12 to have to meet a certain level of fitness, because that's a 13 safety issue, and that is a liability issue if you have those 14 individuals who aren't, you know, up to the fitness criteria 15 that we expect. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think I can 17 get over the hurdle of providing the facility. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I do have a problem with 20 any employees using -- or being paid to work -- be on the 21 clock when they're there. It should be a -- I don't see why 22 the deputies should be treated any different than Road and 23 Bridge; that's another physical department. I mean, you have 24 to do physical work at Road and Bridge. I say that because I 25 see Kelly in the back. You know, I mean, they need to be 8-23-10 49 1 fit; they have a lot of heavy lifting to do. So, I don't -- 2 you know, but I'm not in favor of paying Road and Bridge to 3 go work out either. I don't -- I think that it's fine to 4 have the facility and have it open to the employees, but I 5 don't like the idea of employees teaching, and I don't like 6 the idea of employees being on the clock when they use that 7 facility. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About time to hear from the 9 Sheriff. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I knew if I said enough, he -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's my turn. First off, the 12 County Attorney alluded partly to the Donald Parker case, 13 which is a United States Court of Appeals case out of 14 District of Columbia circuit, okay? Donald Parker sued the 15 District of Columbia Police Department and won, and the jury 16 did it. What the case was, was the officer in this had 17 fractured a shoulder and was out on workers comp and out on 18 light duty and that. Came back. Two months after he got 19 back on duty, they got into a kind of a pursuit -- chase deal 20 with a -- with another man. The officer tried to pull the 21 man out of the car, could not pull him out of the car using 22 his own physical strength, and the guy put it in reverse or 23 whatever and started forward, and the officer shot at him 24 four times, hitting him. The man survived and sued the 25 police department. And even the appeals court ruled in favor 8-23-10 50 1 of the man. And what they're saying is -- and some of the 2 highlights -- I'll be happy to give y'all this, but part of 3 it is that, considered together with Officer Hayes' lack of 4 physical conditioning and disarmament training, the 5 circumstances giving rise to Mr. Parker's injuries persuade 6 us that the moving force element in another case was what 7 this was. And they're going back even more; let me find that 8 one. It states that their department's lack of training in 9 physical fitness is what led to that; that they should have 10 been giving physical fitness training to those officers so 11 that they were able to fulfill the duties without resorting 12 to the use of the firearm. And that is the Parker case. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But why is the department 14 responsible for providing it? Is it not the responsibility 15 of the employee to meet the requirements of the job? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's always the 17 responsibility of the employee to meet the requirements. But 18 in law enforcement, one thing you will find and one thing you 19 see -- and I disagreed with a lot of points in his letter to 20 y'all. And I talked with TAC's attorneys and their safety 21 people too, and the two opinions coming out of there are 22 totally opposite. I think the benefits far outweigh the 23 deals, because every statistic will show you workers comp 24 claims will go down when you have a fitness program, not go 25 up, and that offsets the original one. But what you're 8-23-10 51 1 getting at there on the training is that if -- if I'm going 2 to require fitness standards in that department, which is 3 what the validity study that we're going to do will set those 4 standards, it's not a fly-by-night deal. Then I also need, I 5 think, to provide a way for current employees to start 6 meeting those standards. Train them. This isn't a -- a 7 weight room. This isn't a -- just go do something down at 8 UltraFit or one of these other places, as I can show you. 9 This is a life change for those officers. 10 I've got officers that are specifically trained by 11 the Coopers Institute to provide their -- in fact, myself is 12 one of them. They're actual law enforcement specialists in 13 physical fitness. You've got to train a certain way. It's 14 not going out and, "Oh, I can bench press 300 pounds." 15 "Well, I can bench press 350." That's not what kind of 16 training this is. This is fitness training. Any gymnast is 17 in 10 times better shape than any bodybuilder, just because 18 they're fit. They're not just -- they -- I don't know how to 19 get it across or how to show that in this, other than to read 20 a lot of this kind of stuff to you, and we've gone over and 21 over it. It says that one study concluded that the physical 22 fitness programs tend to have a positive effect on reducing 23 the number of sick days and hours lost as a result of on-duty 24 injuries. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, I don't -- you don't 8-23-10 52 1 need to convince us the need for a fitness program. You need 2 to convince us as to why we need to pay your employees to use 3 that. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I showed Commissioner 5 Oehler is my employees work 12-hour shifts, okay? Working 6 12-hour shifts, you end up with one four-hour day at the end 7 of that pay period, at the end of that schedule time. What I 8 want to do is give them that one hour, okay? That four 9 hours, one hour a week, to attend that program, to attend the 10 instructors that we have that are instructing in fitness. 11 They are certified personal trainers, and they are certified 12 law enforcement specialist fitness trainers. I'm going to 13 give them that one hour. They can use it on duty. If they 14 don't want to attend, they don't have to; they can still take 15 it off like most of them are doing now. It's not costing the 16 taxpayers of this county anything else. What we're doing is, 17 we want to instruct them in how to work out correctly, how to 18 do it correctly, not just go over to a gym and lift weights. 19 And Buster can -- can attest to some of this, and I think Rob 20 could too, on how we do those classes. If you don't train 21 them to do it correctly, you're going to end up with more 22 injuries. If I don't get them -- Jonathan, I don't get them 23 to that training, they won't learn it correctly. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind you training them. 25 I mind them, once they're trained, being paid to go do it. 8-23-10 53 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're paid the four hours a 2 month. One hour. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are they being -- hopefully 4 they're doing something with those four hours a month right 5 now. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of them are taking it off 7 and burning it, because it's hard to work that four-hour 8 shift when you're working 12-hour shifts. All jail and 9 deputies work 12-hour shifts, so most of the time they -- 10 they comp off or they take off that other four hours, 'cause 11 it's better than coming in from 6:00 in the morning to 10:00 12 on the four hours. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who paid for the instructors 14 to get -- to get certified? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Out of what? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Out of seizure fund. 18 Taxpayers haven't paid it. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was my question. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The equipment's paid -- the 21 equipment's paid out of -- out of seizure fund, all right? 22 All the equipment. This is not -- 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about the 24 training and the certifications -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My training -- 8-23-10 54 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- that have already been 2 done by several different people, including yourself. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, okay. Seizure. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I think 5 that's legitimate training for your employees. I agree that 6 they need to be trained on how to work out, but I still don't 7 understand why we need to pay for them. And the reason I'm 8 probably harder to convince now than I may have been a year 9 ago is, we're looking at a lot of -- I have a hard time in 10 paying your employees to work out while we're basically 11 reducing staff. That's the bottom line, in my mind. I can't 12 -- I can't -- and we're also asking employees to pay 13 insurance. We're doing lots of things. And I'm glad they 14 work out. I don't mind training them how to do it properly. 15 I just don't want to pay them to do it. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want to get attendance 17 to it, they're working 12-hour shifts, Jonathan. How are we 18 going to get them there to actually really do it correctly 19 and teach them? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind you training them 21 how to do it, Rusty. It's just the ongoing -- every week. I 22 don't see why your employees should be treated different than 23 any other employee. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not saying they should be 25 -- well, yes I am, because of the job duties they do. I am, 8-23-10 55 1 because of the amount of fights they get into, because of 2 what the public demands from law enforcement officers being 3 fit and ready to do their job duties and go from zero to 4 maximum output cardiovascularly instantly. I do. I think 5 they are treated differently, okay? And I think they need to 6 be treated differently when it comes to physical fitness of 7 those officers. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't think they have an 9 obligation to do that as a condition of employment? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But the study -- what I'm 11 showing you in that, Bruce, is the study shows -- and here, 12 I'll let you read this if you want, okay? Shows that when 13 you have officers -- the new officers just out of the 14 academies are fit because, you know, the academies require 15 physical fitness in it and they teach it, okay? And they do 16 it. But once they get out, and after a few years in -- such 17 as myself or a lot of other ones, you know, sometimes we even 18 get to the point that it's hard to get out of a patrol car 19 and really have to go to running or anything else. And what 20 they have found is that that officer has a hard time making 21 time to exercise. Number one, in a fast-paced world like 22 this, the officers end up working odd hours, odd shifts. 23 They're working nighttime, they're working daytime, doing all 24 these less-than-desirable shifts. They're putting in 25 overtime at other places or doing off-duty jobs to make ends 8-23-10 56 1 meet. And all I'm trying to give these officers is four 2 hours a month. That's not enough to get them fit, okay? 3 That's four hours a month that they're going to go do 4 something. It's not enough to get them fit. It is enough to 5 train them how to do it right, just like sending them through 6 any other training school. They're required by TCLEOSE to 7 have 40 hours a year every two years of training required, 8 okay? We pay them to go through other training. All I'm 9 wanting to do is pay them that four hours that they're taking 10 off anyhow to go through this training for physical fitness. 11 And I don't see -- I see that us and the citizens and 12 everybody else are a whole lot better off by doing this. And 13 it's teaching them to do it right so that we don't have any 14 injuries. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, okay, you're going to 16 have -- they're going to be trained. Every time they're 17 working out, you're going have to have someone in there 18 training them basically all the time, or you're going to have 19 them -- like, everyone has to go at certain times? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, that's what I'll have to 21 do. Different times. I have two different instructors that 22 are physical fitness instructors, and those two instructors 23 are going to have more time to do it. But the other -- the 24 employees that are having to go through the training, it will 25 be set up in different classes. These are classes. This 8-23-10 57 1 isn't just going in and work on a bunch of weight machines. 2 This is an actual class-type deal where you may have 15 of 3 them in there at one time. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you don't ever -- you're 5 never trained to the point that you don't have to have a 6 trainer with you? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, you do a whole lot better 8 if you have that trainer with you. You will always do a lot 9 better, 'cause they push you better; they teach you better. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't get there, Rusty, 11 sorry. And the reason is -- and I know your department is 12 unique. And you talk about, you know, it's the stress in the 13 world and all that stuff, and they're busy. And they do need 14 to be physically fit; you need to have a standard. But we 15 also have single parent people in, say, Jannett's office. 16 They're under just as much of a time rush and constraints 17 also. Why shouldn't we give them the time to go work out? 18 It's good for their health. And we can't afford to do it for 19 all county employees. I understand yours are unique. I 20 understand you have different scheduling, but they're still 21 county employees, and the health benefits is the same for all 22 employees. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let me give you one last case, 24 now, okay? And you can do that -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One last shot. 8-23-10 58 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. This was a Beverly Hills, 2 California case. Guy's a member of their SWAT team. He took 3 vacation, okay? When they were going to -- he was told when 4 he got back off vacation that he was getting close to time 5 for his fitness test, the standards that that agency put in. 6 While he was on vacation -- he went to Jackson, Wyoming and 7 was running to get in shape, okay? He slipped and fell off 8 the curb and broke his ankle. Originally, Beverly Hills and 9 their workers comp denied him workers comp, saying, "You were 10 on vacation; you're off." And I agree with that, all right? 11 The courts reversed that and ruled he was eligible for all 12 that workers comp because he was preparing for that test. 13 If I can train these people four hours a month to 14 be fit and to do it safely -- I looked at the qualifications. 15 I know Mr. Henneke mentioned in his letter about all these 16 other fitness centers around here. I've got a list of what 17 their qualifications are. Those two officers that are going 18 to be instructing mine have better qualifications than what's 19 required to go in -- to go to work for one of these places. 20 They have specific qualifications for law enforcement. And I 21 don't see that either the officer comping it or -- or we 22 giving it off -- if they still want to take it off, that's 23 fine. He can take the time off if he's in that good of 24 shape, but he can learn how to do it correctly if he's not. 25 If you just walk into a fitness center without any 8-23-10 59 1 instruction, are you going to do it correctly? Are you going 2 to exercise this muscle compared to this one? You know -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't mind you having some 4 training on the equipment and paying for that. I mind that 5 the regular -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not equip -- well, it's 7 just kind of like cultural diversity. We have to have 8 regular training on cultural diversity every two years. It's 9 the same thing over and over. We're required to do it by 10 law. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's different. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is not required by law. 13 It's a very good thing. It's a very positive thing, but at 14 the same time, it's not -- you know, it's not the same for 15 everybody. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do you deal, Rusty, 17 with the fact that you said on a previous occasion that you 18 and two others of your officials are certified trainers and 19 so forth, and that Mr. Henneke's memo recommends that that be 20 changed? How do we deal with that? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, when I talked to the 22 attorney that Mr. Henneke talked to, Mr. Henneke put across 23 to that attorney that these were just supervisors; that -- 24 supervisors to make sure that the employees showed up. 25 Mr. Henneke never talked to me before he wrote y'all that 8-23-10 60 1 letter, and never got -- he never even knew what type of 2 program we were going to put on, okay? At all. He never 3 knew what type of training it was going to be, what type of 4 equipment it was. He gave you prices of all these other 5 fitness centers, but not the one that the current employees 6 are using, or the one that he uses, and comparing that price. 7 If you look at the qualifications of those people and the 8 qualifications required at all the fitness centers here in 9 town, okay, my people are more qualified to teach it. And 10 what TAC recommends -- what TAC, Texas Association of 11 Counties, recommends is the qualifications from the Cooper 12 Institute specific to law enforcement fitness that my 13 officers have, and none of these other ones have that. So, 14 he was unaware of what the training was. 15 MR. HENNEKE: We've had that accurately represented 16 here. I mean, we understand what the program is. I 17 understood it correctly then. And the issue is -- what we're 18 discussing here today is having, you know, employees on 19 county time teaching the program, teaching the training, and 20 you have employees on county time participating in the 21 program, participating in the training, which creates new 22 liability where liability doesn't exist. There are positive 23 benefits; I fully recognize those, but there is new liability 24 that I'm bringing to the Court's attention. That's new 25 liability that doesn't exist here. The California state case 8-23-10 61 1 that the Sheriff has referred to and the D.C. federal case, 2 neither of them are good law in Texas. Neither of them are 3 applicable. Both of them are very distinguishable. 4 So -- but the issue's out there. It's not a 5 misrepresentation of what he's trying to do. I think 6 everybody accurately understands what he would like to do. 7 And I recognize the positives, but, you know, the -- having 8 employees on county time working out, if they get hurt, we're 9 going to be liable for that in the way that we'd be liable 10 for other workplace-related injuries. That's the liability 11 issue. That creates a new liability in a new way that 12 doesn't currently exist, which is why I've -- you know, my 13 opinion is what it was. But I think it's -- I think it's 14 fairly represented, and I think everybody here understands 15 what's being proposed and what -- you know, what the -- what 16 would happen. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you don't go into it in 18 your letter or anything else about that that new liability is 19 offset by every study you can look at, at the lower amount of 20 time, of the fewer sick days you have by people being fit, 21 you know, the quicker recovery. He doesn't look at any of 22 that. But -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, we're not saying not to 24 implement a policy to have fitness. We're saying we're not 25 paying for them to do it on company time. I don't mind 8-23-10 62 1 providing the facility for them. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: I see us going in a circular motion 3 now. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got all the issues and 6 the arguments out, and -- and they're on the table, but at 7 this point I just see us going in a circular motion and not 8 really getting anywhere by continuing to reiterate all of 9 those issues and arguments. So -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We pay for training for our 11 officers all the time. I pay instructors to teach that 12 training, and I pay it whether it's in the Penal Code, 13 whether it's in academies or whatever it's in. I pay for 14 training for officers. Officers take that training on duty. 15 They have to; it's part of their job duties. It's part of 16 them being prepared to do that job, whether it's in Penal 17 Code, whether it's in anything else. This is no different. 18 This is paying them for training to be prepared to be able to 19 fulfill the duties of their job to the best of their ability. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But then every other 21 employee's in the same situation. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My department is not the rest 23 of the departments in this county. The other employees are 24 not in fights daily, as I showed y'all last week. They're 25 not in the encounters that we encounter. They're not being 8-23-10 63 1 given the authority to carry a gun and take somebody's life 2 in a heartbeat of a second on making a decision. They have 3 to be better fit. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then make it a policy. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I intend to, but we haven't 6 even gotten to that point of being able to do that with this. 7 It keeps coming back to the Court. The policies are still in 8 the plans. I've got to get the validity study. It will all 9 be set out in policy, but I've got to get the basic before I 10 can even get the policy. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have a 12 motion they wish to offer in connection with this matter? 13 Anything else? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. What is -- 15 what are the previous -- I wasn't at the last meeting. What 16 is the current court order? 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the current order -- 18 court order, to my knowledge, is that we approved space for 19 him to conduct this operation in the new facility that's 20 being built. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. There was no change in the 22 last meeting from the prior action of the Court. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You were there for the one 24 before. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So -- 8-23-10 64 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There wasn't any change last 2 meeting; we just discussed it and that was the end of it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I don't -- I mean, and that 4 still stands. They're building out the facility for a 5 training -- physical training room. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The issue that we're spending 8 most of this time talking about I don't think has been 9 resolved. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and I think that issue 11 should come back up when we get down to drawing the policies 12 and getting up all the policies. Then me and this Court 13 should visit, and the County Attorney should visit on how 14 much time on duty or off duty it should -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'm in agreement with 16 you on that. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on that item? Let's 19 move to Item 13; to consider, discuss, take appropriate 20 action to approve a Universal Waste Minimization and Disposal 21 policy for Kerr County. Ms. Mabry? 22 MS. MABRY: Yes, sir. As you know, Kerr County is 23 a sub-recipient of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act 24 funds through an Energy Conservation Block Grant through 25 SECO, and as a part of that grant, and per letter of February 8-23-10 65 1 22nd, 2010 by the Comptroller's office, also in 10-11 we are 2 required to have a universal waste stream policy for our 3 waste that we are -- we're going to dispose of through this 4 grant. Mr. Bollier has been talking to me about what exactly 5 the wastes are, and I've been in communication with Allied 6 Waste and some other waste management people to discover 7 exactly what we can and cannot dispose of and where and how, 8 and this basically conforms to federal, local, and state law. 9 Which requires basic evidence that the project is complying 10 with state and local law. I mean, that's all -- that's all 11 basically it says; we'll dispose of these things as state and 12 local law requires. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, what we're dealing with 14 are the -- this energy efficient lighting portion of the SECO 15 grant. 16 MS. MABRY: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got ballasts that have 18 hazardous material. We've got light bulbs, generally 19 fluorescent for the most part, that we're removing and 20 replacing with more efficient ones that are classified as 21 hazardous. 22 MS. MABRY: Right. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're obliged, in order to be in 24 compliance with our grant funds to the tune of some hundred 25 and -- 8-23-10 66 1 MS. MABRY: 15,000. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: $115,000. 3 MS. MABRY: Yes. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: To demonstrate that we have the 5 policy in effect so that we can disclose, in accordance with 6 those policies, -- 7 MS. MABRY: Correct. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: -- what we're removing to replace 9 with the energy efficient material. 10 MS. MABRY: Right. In our case, specifically, many 11 of the fluorescent light tubes are not considered safe. They 12 have materials in them that are considered hazardous waste, 13 as well as the actual ballasts. Any ballasts before 1975 14 have a compound called PCB -- PCB in it, which is a hazardous 15 waste, and then also thermometers with any mercury in the 16 switches. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The older thermostats. 18 MS. MABRY: The older thermostats do have those, 19 which we are replacing with this grant money. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just need to approve the 21 policy? Maintenance Department's already aware of it? 22 MS. MABRY: Yes, they're aware that we need to do 23 this. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the policy. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8-23-10 67 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the policy. Question or discussion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. The motion 6 does carry. Let's go to 14; consider, discuss, take 7 appropriate action for County Judge to approve Occupational 8 Account Contract with Boerne Urgent Care for physicals, 9 pre-employment screens, D.O.T. and non-D.O.T. workers 10 compensation injuries, and other services requested or 11 authorized by Kerr County officials. Ms. Hyde? 12 MS. HYDE: County Attorney has gone over it. He's 13 given his approval, Judge. We just need you to sign it so 14 that we can send people to Boerne Urgent Care, especially for 15 the D.O.T.'s. It's a lot less expensive. They do the full 16 seven-panel drug screens, and it saves us approximately $125 17 per person on those on an annual basis. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Do we get it done cheaper also? 19 MS. HYDE: Absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is in comparison to 21 any local providers in Kerr County? 22 MS. HYDE: We don't have local providers in Kerr 23 County any more that will do the D.O.T. physicals and drug 24 screens. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval. 8-23-10 68 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 3 approval. Question or discussion? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Does this limit all employees 5 to have to go here? Or, like, our new hires that have 6 physicals and stress tests and that, we already have 7 something else in place that they go to. Does the -- 8 MS. HYDE: They don't have to go. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: This is just approving the -- the 10 account contract so that we have the ability to send folks 11 there. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are yours the same cost, 13 though? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hmm? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same cost? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, mine are probably a little 17 -- we probably have a different deal that we worked out with 18 them years ago. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who are you using? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Part of it's over at -- the 21 medical people that UltraFit have and Franklin Clinic have, 22 'cause we do full stress tests, and then the drug screen is 23 for all kinds of certifications that we ask for. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Other question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question here. Judge, it 8-23-10 69 1 says the County Judge is going to approve these contracts. 2 Does that mean the County Judge is going to sign the 3 contracts after the Commissioners Court approves them? Or -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- clarify that for me. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to -- the agenda item, as 7 I understand it, authorizes me to request and -- and open an 8 occupational account contract with those folks. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But, you know, for example, Road and 11 Bridge. Leonard, or I suppose Kelly would be authorized to 12 send one of their folks down for a D.O.T. physical. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde. There may be some 15 individuals pre-employment that she would be authorized to 16 send the folks down there for specific purposes for 17 pre-employment. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this an annual contract? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I frankly don't know. Is this an 20 annual contract, or is it open-ended until canceled? 21 MS. HYDE: It's open-ended. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Just an open-ended account contract. 23 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, sir. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other questions? Discussion? 25 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 8-23-10 70 1 hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's move to 6 Item 15; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 7 implementation of the burn ban. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 11 approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 12 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's 17 quickly do Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate 18 action to approve interlocal agreement for provision of 19 management services at the Kerrville-Kerr County Airport with 20 Exhibit A with the Airport Board, and ratify and approve 21 agreement executed by County Judge. Commissioner Williams. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That states it, Judge. 23 That gets it on the record with Exhibit A, and it ratifies 24 your signature. Move approval. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8-23-10 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 2 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 3 raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's take 8 about a 15-minute recess. 9 (Recess taken from 10:34 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We 12 were in recess. Let's go with Item 17, quickly. Consider, 13 discuss, take appropriate action to approve contract with Pro 14 South Construction for repairs to Flat Rock and Ingram Lake 15 Dams and accept contractor's bond. Commissioner Williams? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. This 17 contract that the Pro South people submitted through 18 Mr. Boyd, after the County Attorney took a quick look at it, 19 we've deemed it to be totally insufficient and not worthy 20 of -- of approval today. All this man needs from us right 21 now is a copy of the court order from two weeks ago where we 22 did award the bid, and he can take that court order, then, go 23 to his bonding people. That becomes his statement of our 24 intent to give him -- 'cause we've already done it, and he 25 can come back with a decent contract and a bond. And I 8-23-10 72 1 imagine Mr. Boyd will have that court order in-hand -- do you 2 not, Les? I think by two weeks from now, then, we should be 3 able to wrap this up. So, we'll pull it today, come back in 4 two weeks. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. Let's go to Item 6 18; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve 7 amendment to the Freese and Nichols agreement for 8 construction phase services for Flat Rock Lake and Ingram 9 Dam. Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Court will remember 11 that when we contracted with Freese and Nichols to do the 12 engineering leading up to submission of bids and so forth and 13 so on, invitations to bid, that really was a two-part 14 agreement, and we only approved the funding for the first 15 part, which has already been accomplished, and we would come 16 back with an amendment to the Freese-Nichols contract at a 17 later date. That date is here today. And you'll see that 18 for construction services, the total fee is $47,775. It's in 19 front of you for your action. Mr. Boyd, it might not be a 20 bad idea if you would explain to the Court just exactly how 21 these services will be rendered and the cost, et cetera. 22 Okay? 23 MR. BOYD: Yes, sir. The construction phase 24 services is for our services to observe the contractor's 25 grouting of the two dams. We'll have an on-site 8-23-10 73 1 representative there any time the contractor's on site and 2 doing any grouting to monitor his work and to try and assure 3 that he doesn't do anything outside of specifications and 4 cause any damage to the dams. It has included in it the man 5 hours for myself, Mr. Griffin, and expenses associated with 6 overnight stays and travel. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess there's some 8 questions raised about the resident project representative 9 on-site for six weeks. What happens if he's not? 10 MR. BOYD: There is a stipulation in this contract 11 where, if -- if it goes -- the base of 47,000 some-odd 12 dollars is on a basis of six weeks, which was developed based 13 on the contractor's estimate of what time it would take. If 14 it runs less than six weeks, we credit back to the county the 15 amount of $4,000 a week. If it runs greater than six weeks, 16 we credit -- you pay Freese and Nichols an additional lump 17 sum of $4,000 a week. There's no way, with the kind of work 18 that this is -- it's just too unknown to know exactly how 19 long it's going to take. So, that's how we've constructed 20 this one, is to set it on the basis of six weeks, consistent 21 with his schedule, and then give credit if it finishes early 22 and get it compensated if it goes longer. That -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain -- intuitively, 24 which is probably not a good way to look at this, I don't see 25 why it should take six weeks to grout these dams. 8-23-10 74 1 MR. BOYD: I honestly think it should be more on 2 the order of three weeks, but until we get started, I really 3 don't know. That's the reason why we didn't want to do it 4 and then have somebody say, "Well, you just made a bundle of 5 money; came in for two weeks and, you know, made all kinds of 6 money." 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So you think this is a 8 high number based on what you -- how you think -- 9 MR. BOYD: I hope it is, yes, sir. I don't -- I 10 don't see more than three weeks worth of work out there, but 11 I've been wrong in the past, so we'll see. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this could become a 14 not-to-exceed number, could it not? 15 MR. BOYD: Right now, it is a lump sum number right 16 now. If not -- if it goes 8 or 10 weeks, then that wouldn't 17 be a not-to-exceed number. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: If it were to extend beyond the 19 six-week period that is estimated here. I assume if it's 20 less than that, there will be a proportionate reduction or 21 rebate, as it were, in the contract. If -- if it appears 22 it's going to extend beyond that, certainly, with this Court 23 meeting at least twice a month, I think we'd be in a position 24 to take the appropriate action in order to amend the contract 25 to provide for additional compensation. 8-23-10 75 1 MR. BOYD: Right. So what we would need to do is 2 come to you before we got into that position and say, "Job's 3 not going well; looks like we're going to need some 4 additional money, an additional amendment." But our hope 5 is -- is that this is a top number, and -- but we don't feel 6 like we should just take that as a lump sum, and then if we 7 finish in two weeks, the County feels like they got shorted. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't understand 9 on the -- the math a little bit. If the total amount's 10 47,775, that comes out to a little under 8,000 a week. 11 MR. BOYD: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are we only crediting back 13 4,000? 14 MR. BOYD: Because there are some -- we've rebid 15 the project. We did not come forward to ask you for 16 additional moneys for that, and we'd like to recoup some of 17 those moneys for the rebid. The original price we gave you, 18 $12,000, was to bid the project, evaluate the bids, and make 19 recommendations. The bids came in high, so we spent time -- 20 quite a bit of time on getting rebids and new numbers and 21 dealing with this issue. Right now, I am over budget in my 22 project, which I should have come to you and said, "We're 23 going to go over." But in the interest of time, we did not 24 do that, and so what we -- what we're looking at is what the 25 true cost is. There's always up-front moneys when you start 8-23-10 76 1 a job. You've got to get the books set up; you've got to get 2 everybody on board, get the training done. And when you get 3 rolling, the only expense you're really out is the gentleman 4 that's on-site and his expenses associated with that. And we 5 looked at this number and believe that 4,000 is truly 6 representative of that cost. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By my calculation, that should 8 be 5,000. 9 MR. BOYD: Say it again? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be closer to 5,000. 11 Just on the 29,7 portion equates out to 5,000 a month. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: 4,950 actually. 13 MR. BOYD: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I rounded to full dollars. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I understand that you 16 did some extra work, but, you know, my -- my take on this 17 is -- and you're in business, and you put a price out you're 18 going to do something, and you do it for that price. And if 19 it runs over, you need to let somebody know so they can 20 compensate you fairly for it. Should have been a clause that 21 said that if we do more work, if we rebid, then it's going to 22 be an additional charge. 23 MR. BOYD: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think at some point, you 25 have to eat some of those costs. 8-23-10 77 1 MR. BOYD: I think so, and I think we will. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe that you 3 should pad the next bid with those costs that it ran over for 4 the previous. 5 MR. BOYD: I agree. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what are you willing to 7 do? (Laughter.) 8 MR. BOYD: I am willing to take a reduction 9 whichever way you gentlemen feel is fair. But we did do a 10 lot of extra work, and we did it very quickly. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You did. 12 MR. BOYD: And so I don't really feel like we 13 should be fully penalized for that. But I do understand your 14 position, too. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 16 MR. BOYD: I did take it for -- I took it for one 17 bid for $12,000. We did two bids for $12,000, so I've eaten 18 it to this point. And if I have to eat it, I will, but it 19 won't taste very good. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if there's any shaving 21 to be had -- shaving or saving, it would be in the resident 22 project representative on site for six weeks? Is that what 23 it would be? 24 MR. BOYD: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So if that number were 8-23-10 78 1 reduced by -- what? 2 MR. BOYD: Well, see, that's where -- that's where 3 you kind of beat yourselves up if you're not careful. If you 4 make it $5,000 -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can go both ways. 6 MR. BOYD: -- and I go over, you just paid me more 7 money. So, we tried to get a fair value on what we felt like 8 that was worth. I'll take back anything you would like me to 9 take back, and -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about you make the 11 resident project representative on site for six weeks, make 12 that 20,000, and do the -- leave the rest alone. 13 MR. BOYD: Say again? 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The first -- reduce the 29,7 15 to 20. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about the -- reducing the 17 4,000 on the bottom credit for additional? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I would say -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's less than -- 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it's less than six -- 21 MR. BOYD: It's the same dilemma I was in when I 22 tried to construct this, so I'll be glad to have any input. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we want to do a little 24 whittling on that one? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say reduce that one 8-23-10 79 1 to 4,000. If we reduce the top one, reduce that one to 2 2,000. 3 MR. BOYD: From the 4,000 to the 2,000 for the 4 week? 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For the week. 6 MR. BOYD: For early finishes and late finishes? 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay? 9 MR. BOYD: 20,000 on the 29,700. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2,000 on the -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On the credit if you finish 13 earlier than six weeks, or the extension. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When -- when does this all 15 kick in? After he's mobilized out there, or are you a part 16 of it during the mobilization? 17 MR. BOYD: It's a very good question. It would be 18 the day he starts work, because otherwise, it's going to take 19 us several weeks to -- or two weeks to get his contracts 20 back, get them back to you, deal with him to get mobilized 21 and all that stuff. So, the time would actually start the 22 day he moved on site and began work. Otherwise, it's a very 23 nebulous time frame. I will take this back to our group 24 manager and see if he'll agree to that 20,000 and 2,000 on 25 the daily -- I mean, on the -- 8-23-10 80 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Weekly. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Weekly. Not daily. 3 MR. BOYD: Agree to that, please. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That cuts both ways. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 6 MR. BOYD: It does. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to send me a new 8 revision? 9 MR. BOYD: I'll send you a revised one. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Instead of just striking 11 through all that. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: You guys have written the specs for 13 -- for this grouting, have you not? 14 MR. BOYD: That's correct. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the type of grouting that you're 16 going to be doing the specs for that of the nature of, if 17 there's additional water infiltration, that it'll be some 18 sort of material that won't just continue to erode away, but 19 rather would -- would -- the water would chemically activate 20 the material so as to maintain the seal? 21 MR. BOYD: Yes. We wrote the specifications around 22 a -- a grout that can be pumped into water. We'll have an 23 underwater additive into it that keeps the cement from 24 separating from the grout, which would be the problem you 25 have when you pump cement into water. So, it has in its base 8-23-10 81 1 bid that additive into the grout mix. It also has a 2 fluidizer or retarder to make it more fluid where it'll 3 travel easier and stay active longer. So, that is in the 4 contractor's base bid, those two particular modifications. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any fiber or anything, 6 just out of curiosity? 7 MR. BOYD: There is no fiber in it. The base grout 8 that we're planning on using is a water cement and those two 9 chemical additives I'm talking about. In the event that we 10 hit a large mass that -- void that we can identify, we have 11 in there as an alternate add item for sand to bulk up that 12 application and take up area at a much -- at a cheaper rate 13 than what you can do with cement. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: But it -- it would -- it would seal 15 the cracks and whatnot, and even with additional water being 16 present on the cracks, it would not be subject to erosion 17 from -- from that additional water on down the road so as to 18 deteriorate? 19 MR. BOYD: It should -- if we get -- we get it in 20 properly, it will take a set, and it will be where it cannot 21 be eroded. Now, it's not to say that the water can't be 22 underneath it and erode more soil. That's not what it's 23 trying to fix. What will happen to us if we hit an area 24 where we have a large amount of water flowing through a 25 crack, we will first need to address that crack to get where 8-23-10 82 1 you can pump against it and get the material in there and get 2 it to take a set. To think you can grout through a fire 3 hydrant, no, you can't. Nobody can. So, we'll have to deal 4 with how we're going to stop the water in order to set the 5 grout. You'll never get it stopped completely, but you 6 will -- you can contain it. You can get the packing in the 7 area where the water's coming out. This is not a known 8 quantity right now. We don't know exactly -- every day it's 9 going to be a learning experience, and we're going to deal 10 with that part of it. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's hard to measure exactly 12 how big the voids are and what's going to be required and 13 what -- you know, it's close. I mean, y'all -- your 14 assessment did a -- a fairly good job of identifying that, 15 but some of that's still an unknown. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, our problem is 18 basically just filling voids. It's not really trying to stop 19 a big flow of water. We don't really have that problem. 20 It's just some seepage that's going -- could be occurring 21 either under the dam, or it could be occurring through part 22 of it and coming out the back side at some point, and this 23 may stop it or it may not. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to approve the -- 8-23-10 83 1 based on Commissioner Oehler's comment, I mean, has the 2 County Attorney looked at the contract? Or is there a 3 contract? Is there a contract somewhere? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Proposal. 5 MR. HENNEKE: Well, the -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or will you be coming back with 7 a contract once we agree on the amount? 8 MR. BOYD: Because we're changing it, it will have 9 to go back through our company's approval process. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it will come back to us, 11 then? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this really is 13 submitted as an amendment to the Freese-Nichols contract 14 which we approved some months ago. 15 MR. BOYD: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But then, based on -- it's an 17 amendment. If we -- I'm trying to keep us from having to 18 deal with it again if we don't need to, so that we -- 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can make a motion to -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we make a motion to do it 21 based on your recommendation, as long as you accept it, we 22 don't have to come back. If you don't accept it, we have to 23 look at it again. 24 MR. BOYD: I understand. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 8-23-10 84 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we approve -- 2 approve the amended contract with Freese-Nichols in the 3 amount of -- the first line, resident project representative 4 on-site six weeks, to be $20,000, from 29,700, and that if 5 they finish earlier, we will be credited back at the rate of 6 $2,000 a week. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if it goes beyond -- 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it goes beyond, we're 9 going to leave that at four. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Put it at two, same thing? 12 Go to two. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 14 MR. BOYD: Don't make it a double sword. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as 17 indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion? 18 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. 24 MR. BOYD: Thank you, gentlemen. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We look forward to 8-23-10 85 1 a response from your people. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Les, just send me whatever 3 you got by e-mail, as you have in the past, okay? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 20; to consider, 5 discuss, take appropriate action regarding retirement of 6 Barbara Holmes from the County Attorney's office. Ms. Hyde, 7 Mr. Henneke. 8 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you, Judge, Commissioners. 9 Barbara, if you'll come join me. Reluctantly, we've accepted 10 the retirement of -- of Barbara Holmes. Barbara's been with 11 the county for 21 years. She started off in the County 12 Clerk's office, and after that worked for Judge Brown and 13 County Court at Law before coming to work for the County 14 Attorney's office a few years ago. Just an invaluable 15 employee, a great person to work with, and someone that I 16 would like to thank and recognize for her service and 17 dedication to Kerr County. 18 MS. HOLMES: Thank you. 19 MR. HENNEKE: So, before letting y'all say 20 anything, also we'd just like to invite everybody; we're 21 going to have a reception in her honor here September 7th at 22 4:30 here in this courtroom. Her last day will be September 23 10th, and that will be an opportunity for everybody to come 24 by and say good-bye in person. But I just can't say highly 25 enough great things about her and the work that she's done, 8-23-10 86 1 the representation that she has here and credit that she 2 brings to the county for working for us. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Barbara, occasionally I hear 4 from this table, and rarely, but occasionally from the rest 5 of the courthouse employees, we're addressed as a family, the 6 county family. And you -- when I think of that, you are 7 the -- you are a major, major, major part of that. I can't 8 imagine this courthouse without you being around it. And as 9 long as I've been around here, you've been around, and I 10 appreciate your service to us, and just that beautiful, 11 joyful face -- 12 MS. HOLMES: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is going to be missed. 14 Thank so you so much. 15 MS. HOLMES: Working for the county has been a very 16 important part of my life too. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you don't have to get 18 carried away here. (Laughter.) 19 MS. HOLMES: It really has, and I hope that the 20 next phase of my life will be just as fulfilling as the last 21 20 years have been here with the county. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'll be greatly missed. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Speaking of family, my understanding 24 is that you're looking forward in retirement to getting real 25 busy with grandchildren. 8-23-10 87 1 MS. HOLMES: That's true. That's part of my plan, 2 yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Best of luck to you. 4 MS. HOLMES: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The worst part of that is 6 that she can supervise Duane a little closer, from Duane's 7 perspective. 8 MS. HOLMES: Keep him a little more in line. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very best to you, Barbara. 10 You are emblematic of a good Kerr County employee. 11 MS. HOLMES: Thank you very much. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you very much. 13 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you, Barbara. 14 (Applause.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 19; to consider, 16 discuss, take appropriate action to approve a property access 17 license agreement between Kerr County and Comanche Trace for 18 a contractor's staging and work area to facilitate Flat Rock 19 Dam repair. Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've been working through 21 the County Attorney's office and the -- David Jackson's law 22 office to obtain an agreement -- property access license 23 agreement to give us the staging area we need for the dam 24 repairs. That's what this is all about. It's been vetted by 25 just about everybody between here and Comanche Trace and 8-23-10 88 1 back, and it sets out what Comanche Trace feels it needs to 2 protect themselves, and it gives us what we need in terms of 3 a place to do so. And the requirements on the part of the 4 County through the contractor is to put the place back like 5 you found it when you finish. So, I would move approval of 6 the agreement. This kind of wraps that up, and we're ready 7 to go when the contractor's ready to go. 8 MR. HENNEKE: If I could add, Commissioner, first 9 of all, making sure that we're approving the revised 10 agreement that I sent you on Friday, and not what was put in 11 as the backup to the agenda. There was a -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what this is, is it 13 not? 14 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. That's what -- and also 15 there's blanks for the dates, for when the date range will 16 be. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 18 MR. HENNEKE: If we can approve that, then we'll 19 just fill in the dates when we get the agreement. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can't finish it -- 21 totally finish it until we get those dates, but we can 22 approve the concept of the letter of understanding. 23 MR. HENNEKE: Absolutely. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 8-23-10 89 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the amended draft format of the agreement. 3 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 4 by raising your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move 9 to Item 21; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 10 resolution in support of the Hill Country Community M.H.M.R. 11 Center. I put this on the agenda at the request of the folks 12 over at Hill Country Community M.H.M.R. As I'm sure most of 13 you know, the state -- Department of State Health Services is 14 under the squeeze along with other state agencies. They are 15 scrambling for every bit of support they can get because of 16 their mission, particularly now that they have the new Crisis 17 Stabilization Unit, since all of the beds at Kerrville State 18 Hospital have now been allocated for forensic patients, and 19 for our civil commitment type patients, the only thing we 20 have to rely upon locally is the C.S.U. So, they're asking 21 our support for community-based mental health services, which 22 this resolution is in support of, particularly as it pertains 23 to Hill Country Community M.H.M.R. center. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for approval. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8-23-10 90 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 2 approval of the resolution. Question or discussion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why don't 8 we go to Section 4 of the agenda, if we might, payment of the 9 bills. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the 13 bills. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor 14 of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Budget 19 amendments. We've got a rather lengthy sheet of 25 requested 20 budget amendments, as shown in the summary furnished by the 21 Auditor's office. Do I hear a motion that the budget 22 amendments, as evidenced by that summary, Numbers 1 through 23 25, be approved as requested? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8-23-10 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the Budget Amendment Requests Numbers 1 through 3 25, as shown on the summary. Question or discussion? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go -- you go ahead. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Go ahead. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, go ahead. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It appears -- you know, it 9 appears to me that we're very fortunate in our workmans 10 compensation line. We have quite a bit of money left in 11 there that we can draw from to do some of these budget 12 amendments in areas that are going to be short. I was a 13 little surprised to see that number, which I'm not 14 complaining, but I'm glad we have someplace to get it from. 15 And jail repairs has a fairly large number, as contract 16 professional services as well. So, we do have a few areas, 17 looks like, that we're able to draw from. That's all I have. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to say, this 19 -- this is -- seems to me a large number. Is this a sign of 20 not very good budgeting last year? Not watching our p's and 21 q's? As an example, Number 13, the County-sponsored 22 activity. Don't we know how much the AACOG dues are? How 23 did -- how did we go over on there? 24 MS. HARGIS: That was a special request that AACOG 25 had in a letter that they just mailed us. That was something 8-23-10 92 1 we didn't know about. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that for, Mr. AACOG 3 representative? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, don't make us rough 5 you up. Get up to us about this. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm looking at it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this new fees in the 8 middle of the year? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there was a new fee 10 schedule that was put out, a new per diem. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the middle of the year? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, no, not in the 13 middle -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do we say go jump off 15 the creek somewhere? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's not in the middle 17 of the year. 18 MS. HARGIS: We have -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us what this is. I 20 don't know what it is. 21 MS. HARGIS: We had a letter requesting that we 22 have a $1,000 donation -- additional $1,000 donation for 23 AACOG for the current year. I did not bring a copy of the 24 letter with me. I mean, I can bring it this afternoon if 25 you'd like to see it. 8-23-10 93 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has nothing to do with 2 the dues structure in place -- current dues structure in 3 place? 4 MS. HARGIS: You know, I can't answer that. I 5 can't answer that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I never did see the letter. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says AACOG dues. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it. I don't know; 9 I've not seen the letter. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They requested a donation. 11 That doesn't sound like a bill to me. 12 MS. HARGIS: Well, in lieu of the dues. In fact, 13 for next year, they said they wanted a donation in lieu of 14 the dues of $1,000, so we budgeted -- we actually increased 15 the budget for that. I can provide you all with a copy of 16 that this afternoon at the workshop if you'd like. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please do. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you need some help 19 spelling cuss words, let me know. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know you're an expert at 21 that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all. You know, I 23 just wanted to use that as an example of how -- how these 24 kind of things happen. But, anyway, that's all. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- parks/maintenance. 8-23-10 94 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Parks and maintenance. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 8, $5,000 increase. 3 MR. BOLLIER: For the sign. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the sign? Okay. 5 MR. BOLLIER: For the sign out there. I'm just -- 6 and I've got plenty of money in the jail budget. I was just 7 putting a little money in just to make sure I have it in 8 place. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, with regard to your 10 question about maybe not doing as good a job of budgeting, it 11 may be also a sign of real tight budgeting, and as we get 12 close to the end of the year, maybe it was a little too 13 tight, so we got to move some funds to handle some of those 14 items. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I suspect that's it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Comments? All 17 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have any 22 late bills? 23 MS. HARGIS: No, sir, we do not. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, reports. I've been presented 25 with monthly reports from Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; 8-23-10 95 1 Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; District Clerk; Constable, 2 Precinct 1, for the month of July 2010; Constable, Precinct 3 4, for the month of June 2010 and for the month of July 2010. 4 Do I hear a motion that these reports be approved as 5 presented? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to 9 approve the reports as presented. Question or discussion? 10 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Do we have 16 any reports from Commissioners in connection with their 17 liaison/committee assignments or otherwise? Commissioner 18 Baldwin? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just still plugging away on 24 a few of them. The last round in Austin didn't go all that 25 well. I walked out of that meeting irritated with them. 8-23-10 96 1 (Laughter.) But I'll go back, and hopefully there'll be an 2 item on the next agenda. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Need to get you a bigger 4 pocketful of rocks. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Need it for some of those 6 folks. But other than that, that's about it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: New arena -- outdoor arena at 9 the Ag Barn is finally underway. Road and Bridge had to go 10 back and do a little -- little addition after the fact, 11 because when it was staked, it was 10 feet narrow -- too 12 narrow. They had to go back and haul a little more material 13 in, and they did that. Contractor has started. The bulk of 14 the posts are set. They'll be starting to put the top rail 15 up and get some other stuff, gates and everything underway, 16 probably this week. Shouldn't be a very long process. They 17 ought to have it done in about probably three weeks. 18 Everything looks good. Lines -- lines are straight. Posts 19 are set correctly. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that action we took 21 this morning with respect to the livestock show and the use 22 of the Flat Rock Lake Park and so forth, was that kind of an 23 outgrowth of -- of their wishing to talk to us about things? 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not really. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? 8-23-10 97 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, it was really just 2 exactly what it was. They found -- they figured out a way 3 that would -- would alleviate some of the congestion and some 4 of the confusion, and that was the best solution they had. I 5 thought it was going to be about parking and various things. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason I asked 7 the question. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The arena and stuff being 9 built. But we're going to take the other one down, so they 10 don't really have a problem with it at all. They're just 11 trying to figure out a better way to stage the animals coming 12 in for the show. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: As opposed to having them lined up 15 in the ditches on either side of Riverside Drive, encroaching 16 on the road. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. And that's a safety 18 issue, plus, you know, they sit in line for hours and, you 19 know, you move up one vehicle at a time. And it just -- it 20 doesn't make sense to do it that way. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And made it real congested on 22 the property around the buildings; you couldn't move, get 23 around. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They were out there on that 25 public road? Oh my god. 8-23-10 98 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is going to let them 2 release a few at a time to unload, and also load after it's 3 over, and it's going to be a -- a whole better process than 4 what it's been in the past. I'm glad they came up with the 5 idea. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Reports from elected 9 officials? Department heads? Anything else for now? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff -- we're not 11 hearing from the Sheriff? 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hey, don't -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's don't invite here, -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sorry. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Commissioner. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Goodness gracious. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm used to hearing from 18 him. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you concerned about his health 20 and fitness? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: His health and fitness, 22 yeah. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got a couple of 24 executive session items to attend to, so now that we've got 25 most everything else resolved, we will go to our executive 8-23-10 99 1 session items. So, it is 11:24, and we will go out of public 2 or open session. 3 MR. HENNEKE: And, Judge, we're going into 4 executive session under 551.072, to deliberate about real 5 property, and also with regard to 551.0785, to deliberate 6 regarding individuals' private medical records. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 (The open session was closed at 11:24 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 9 is contained in a separate document.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We will come back into open 12 or public session at -- at 11:39. Does any member of the 13 Court have anything to offer with respect to matters 14 discussed in executive or closed session? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do I need to make -- I don't 16 need to make a motion with that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I'm just asking if there is 18 anything. If there's not -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's going back on our next 20 agenda for action. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further, gentlemen? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about Item 23? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we need to do that one. 24 MR. HENNEKE: Yeah, I guess so. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call Item 23; 8-23-10 100 1 consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding 2 insurance issue on an individual. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are we -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Renew something. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it "extend" or -- 6 MS. HYDE: I just need -- I need permission to 7 extend and have the other -- the additional cost. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of the COBRA? 9 MR. HENNEKE: Yeah. 10 MS. HYDE: Please. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Spouse of an employee, correct? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to continue 17 COBRA coverage at a slightly increased cost from that 18 originally charged for the spouse of a Kerr County employee. 19 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 20 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. 25 MS. HYDE: Thank you, gentlemen. 8-23-10 101 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can we come back at 3 1:30? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Please. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I know you want to. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have this strange 8 desire. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: I'd have you coming back at 1:00, 10 Commissioner, except we're already scheduled for 1:30, so 11 you're going to have to wait. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. All right. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Spend a little more time at 14 Buzzie's. 15 MS. HYDE: Ms. Pieper wants to know, do you need 16 the difference in the price? 17 MS. PIEPER: In that court order. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Slight increase. I heard 20 the words "slight increase." 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. HENNEKE: I think it's sufficient. 23 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to be in recess until 25 this afternoon, or even possibly tomorrow, subject to the 8-23-10 102 1 call of the chair. We're in recess. 2 (Commissioners Court recessed at 11:42 a.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 5 6 7 STATE OF TEXAS | 8 COUNTY OF KERR | 9 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 10 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 11 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 12 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 13 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 26th day of August, 14 2010. 15 16 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 17 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-23-10