1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Special Session 8 and 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11 8:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 21, 2010 2 PAGE 3 --- Review and discuss FY 2010-11 budgets and fiscal, capital expenditure, and personnel 4 matters related thereto, including, but not limited to, cost-of-living adjustment, salary 5 considerations, staffing levels, health benefits and insurance 3 6 1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 7 vote for approval or disapproval of various specific budget items 3 8 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 9 whether to include non-Kerr County employees in the Kerr County immunization program, and 10 if so, at what cost 122 11 --- Budget workshop adjourned 124 12 1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a resolution authorizing redemption of 13 certain outstanding Lake Ingram Estates Road District unlimited tax road bonds, Series 2001 124 14 1.3 Confer with County Attorney regarding pending 15 LCRA CREZ litigation (Executive Session) 126 16 --- Adjourned 127 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, September 21, 2010, at 8:00 a.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this Kerr County Commissioners Court 9 workshop posted and scheduled for this date and time, 10 Tuesday, September 21, 2010, at 8 a.m. It is that time. 11 Also, concurrently, I will call to order the special 12 Commissioners Court meeting posted and scheduled for this 13 date, Tuesday, September 21, 2010, at 8 a.m., so we'll track 14 those concurrently. The agenda item for the workshop is to 15 review and discuss F.Y. 2010-11 budgets and fiscal, capital 16 expenditure, and personnel matters related thereto, 17 including, but not limited to, cost-of-living adjustments, 18 salary considerations, staffing levels, health benefits, and 19 insurance. The agenda item, Item 1, is to consider, discuss, 20 and take appropriate action to vote for approval or 21 disapproval of various specific budget items. 22 I have been asked to place first this morning 23 before the Court, if there are any matters that the Court has 24 concerning the District Court budgets, that we address those 25 first. Ms. Henderson apparently is scheduled to go to a 9-21-10 4 1 conference, and she -- she should have left two hours ago, I 2 think. But she's here, and we want to get those addressed 3 first to allow her to get on with her business. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no questions. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: None. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm thinking. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to ask or am I 8 going to? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You go ahead and ask; let me 10 think a minute. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess my question is, is 12 there any way that -- that maybe you could reduce your staff 13 by one? 14 MS. HENDERSON: Uh-oh. Wow. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that what you had in mind? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that wasn't mine. 17 MS. HENDERSON: Judge? I -- 18 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Let me deal with this. 19 MS. HENDERSON: Yeah, you deal with that one. 20 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Morning. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Morning. 22 JUDGE WILLIAMS: I don't think so. I met -- I met 23 yesterday morning with the four county auditors in my 24 district, and we talked about their overall budgets and what 25 they've done with their staff and their staffing levels, and 9-21-10 5 1 tried to compare apples to apples with what we've done. And 2 I know that y'all know this; a lot of people don't, but when 3 we're dealing with the 198th five counties and the 216th four 4 counties, and we have the only overlapping county, being Kerr 5 County, what I found, since I'm out three weeks out of the 6 month, and likewise for -- for Rex, we need -- you know, 7 Becky does, you know, what she does for the Sixth 8 Administrative District going out to El Paso, and then 9 covering both districts as court coordination. Mary 10 Frances -- what a lot of people don't understand that she 11 does with the A.G.'s office and with the C.P.S. docket, A.G. 12 docket and all that stuff, is that it is -- and Anna Beth 13 doing what she does for all three, and in support of Becky 14 also, there's a lot of overlapping between the three of them. 15 And so if it was just the District Court docket, just the 16 198th and 216th, that might even be one issue. But they wear 17 pretty much multiple hats, and we do an enormous amount of 18 juggling. 19 What I've found is that we have -- we keep all 20 three of them pretty darned busy between -- whether it's Anna 21 Beth typing, and she serves as receptionist, and Mary Frances 22 on a separate docket, and on top of that coordinating and 23 helping Becky, and then the multiple hats she wears. I've 24 looked at that, and people that know me, if you'd been at the 25 meeting yesterday, you'd have seen -- I appreciate what y'all 9-21-10 6 1 are doing to try to scrutinize the budget and not have a 2 surplus of personnel, but I don't see it here, Bruce. I 3 don't -- you know, I don't think there's any surplus here. 4 Those ladies keep busy, and they have a lot to do. And 5 there's -- there's -- as I compare that with other dockets in 6 other districts too, and the staffing that they have that's 7 really a lot of times in excess of what we have, I believe 8 that we need these three ladies, and I think it would be 9 awfully short-handed to cut them down. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they charged fully to 11 Kerr County, Judge? Or for the district? 12 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Excuse me? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are they charged fully to 14 Kerr County, or to the district as a whole? 15 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Well, it varies. 16 MS. HENDERSON: Let me answer that real quickly. 17 Anna Beth -- myself, I'm charged to all eight counties. Anna 18 Beth is charged to all eight counties. Mary is state, 19 three-quarters time state, 'cause she works for A.G., she 20 does C.P.S., and then she's a quarter time charged to the 21 four counties of the 216th. And the reason -- 22 JUDGE WILLIAMS: And most of her salary is -- 23 MS. HENDERSON: State. 24 JUDGE WILLIAMS: -- is state and not county. 25 MS. HENDERSON: And the reason she's charged those 9-21-10 7 1 four times is because the state will not let her even answer 2 our telephones unless she gets some money from the counties. 3 And -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are her benefits paid 5 for? 6 MS. HENDERSON: All state. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All state? 8 MS. HENDERSON: All state. All her benefits are 9 state. The only thing is, her salary's split four -- just a 10 quarter of her salary is split four ways. And that's just so 11 when I'm gone, she's able to do my job, and she's who does my 12 job if I'm gone. It would be really, really difficult if we 13 were to lose either -- any of us. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have -- 16 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Or we could just get rid of Becky 17 on the spot right here. 18 MS. HENDERSON: Hey. I could. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question on benefits. We 20 talked about that a couple meetings ago. That -- I think it 21 was determined that, technically, your staff are not county 22 employees. Though we pay a portion, you're kind of, you 23 know, out there in no man's land, and the benefits are 24 covered by Kerr County for the most part, but then it's 25 billed out to the other counties for those that work in other 9-21-10 8 1 counties. Is that correct? Is that -- 2 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Well, except for Mary Frances' 3 benefits is state. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, she's state. 5 MS. HENDERSON: It would just be me and -- myself 6 and Anna Beth. 7 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Cindy. 8 MS. HENDERSON: And Cindy. 9 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And your sal -- yours is 11 benefits through the state? 12 JUDGE WILLIAMS: All state. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All state? 14 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's a -- it is 16 possible, probably, for you all to look and choose a benefit 17 package from one or the other counties and then attribute 18 that, but right now it works out the best, or simpler, 19 probably easier through Kerr County. But I believe some of 20 Rex's -- or at least one of Rex's district employees gets 21 their benefits with a different county. 22 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Are you talking about Sean Finn? 23 MS. HENDERSON: No, he's talking about -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The one that comes out of 25 McCullough? 9-21-10 9 1 MS. HENDERSON: You're talking about Tina Young, 2 his court reporter. She serves Mason, Menard, and 3 McCullough, and that's why her -- she doesn't even serve 4 Kerr. And the reason ours come from Kerr is because Kerr is 5 the overlapping county for the 198th and 216th, and -- and 6 we're based here. That's why Kerr has always been the one 7 that -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 9 MS. HENDERSON: -- administrates. 10 JUDGE WILLIAMS: The allocation would be similar 11 anyway, because, you know, how it's based and how it's 12 proportioned out. I will say this. And I was talking to, I 13 think, Pat and Buster the other day about this, and what I 14 don't think people a lot of times realize is -- that's -- I 15 think that's a logical question, Jonathan, but there is a 16 tremendous amount of benefit by -- even though it doesn't 17 have to be this way -- by having these ladies here in Kerr 18 County, by having the District Judges residing here, although 19 they're not required to; they can reside in any county in the 20 district. But as far as, you know, contact location, 21 administration, getting things done right away, you know, 22 these other counties -- oftentimes, you know, we hear that's 23 a bit frustrating for them, because they don't have their 24 District Judge or the administrative staff in their counties. 25 And they've been very good about it, and the complaints have 9-21-10 10 1 been minimal, but it is, you know, a subtle benefit also 2 having the administrative staff and the judges here, and well 3 utilizes the space here, too. But if the benefits were -- I 4 guess, hypothetically, to answer your question, we could go 5 out for -- and look at another package with another county. 6 I'm not -- I don't know that that would be of any budgetary 7 benefit to the county, though. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and it could also, on 9 the flip side, if they offer a Kendall County, which is a -- 10 financially, I guess, a lot more -- is getting a lot of 11 growth still, if they offer a better package, then we would 12 be charged a higher -- I mean, we'd still pay our percentage, 13 but we could pay more. 14 JUDGE WILLIAMS: That's right. I could do it 15 either way. If we go for a better financial package, that 16 doesn't mean it would be better on the budget at all. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay. 18 MS. HENDERSON: And I just want to make one comment 19 too, that we do serve all eight counties, but I will say that 20 60 to 68 percent of what I do is Kerr County's stuff. Kerr 21 County is the largest county. The phone calls, the paperwork 22 is mostly Kerr County. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And for the record, we want to 24 keep y'all in Kerr County. (Laughter.) 25 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Thank you. 9-21-10 11 1 MS. HENDERSON: And I did come up with a couple of 2 budget cuts, very small. But I spent yesterday evening -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ready to copy. 4 MS. HENDERSON: Hours going -- I went over the last 5 five years trying to find out where we -- and it's not much, 6 but it will help a little bit. Under both courts, under 7 lease copier, $750 out of both courts, that can be cut out, 8 'cause we don't -- we don't lease our copier, and the 9 equipment maintenance of 1,200 covers that. And Special 10 District Judge, we had 6,500. We can cut that down to 5,000 11 in each court. Because -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: How's that going to impact our -- 13 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Jail docket? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- Wednesday fast docket court? 15 MS. HENDERSON: That comes out of a different 16 budget. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct, we moved that to a 18 different budget. 19 MS. HENDERSON: And the reason we're able to cut 20 that is we have two District Judges that are senior judges 21 that reside in Kerr County. If we use Judge Barton and Judge 22 Ables, we don't have to pay for them. If, for some reason, 23 we have to use somebody out-of-county, then we have to pay 24 their travel and their expenses. We do have one case in the 25 198th that the Supreme Court appointed Judge Peeples out of 9-21-10 12 1 San Antonio, and he's going to be doing a three-week trial 2 down here. We don't have any control over that; it just 3 happened, so we do have to have some money there for that. 4 But otherwise, we are trying to use local judges so that it 5 doesn't cost the county anything. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Would that be reimbursed by 7 the state for the time, or not? We have to pick up the tab? 8 MS. HENDERSON: The only thing we have to pay -- 9 his salary's paid by the state, but we have to pay his travel 10 expenses, and if he decides to stay here, and his meals. 11 Normally Judge Peeples travels back and forth. So -- 12 JUDGE WILLIAMS: He's an administrative judge like 13 Ables is; he lives in San Antonio. 14 MS. HENDERSON: But that's something -- he was 15 appointed to that by the Supreme Court, and we don't -- we 16 don't have -- there's nothing we can do about that. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: We thank you for taking a look at 18 that a second or third or fourth, whatever time that was. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, one other question, and 20 I don't think it's for this year, but we've talked about a 21 little bit in the past with going with a public defender type 22 program. Would that work? Would that help? I mean, our 23 indigent defense is obviously a huge line item. 24 JUDGE WILLIAMS: It is huge. And are you talking 25 about indigent overall, or just for capital offenses? 9-21-10 13 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever -- wherever it may 2 work. I mean -- 3 JUDGE WILLIAMS: I learned yesterday that Gillespie 4 County bought into that capital -- that capital offense 5 indigent defense fund, and that -- the whole indigent program 6 as far as transferring it -- the entire thing over to that. 7 It's still being looked at. And we had a good -- I think 8 Ms. Lavender got some information on it. We had a couple 9 meetings that some of us -- I think Judge Tinley, and Rob, 10 you attended that, I believe, the guys that came from Austin, 11 or wherever they were from, to discuss the overall indigent 12 budget. We looked at a lot of numbers, and that has not 13 been -- it's kind of dormant right now. And I think that's 14 something that's appropriate to look at, if y'all want to 15 look at it further. It is -- either way, it's going to be 16 very expensive, but we do need to look at both sides of that. 17 The -- we have some very fine defense attorneys in Kerr 18 County that are doing the work at the indigent rate, which is 19 much less than the normal rate, but it still adds up a lot. 20 It makes for a large budget. If you'd like to talk about 21 that more, I'll look at that again. It's just kind of -- it 22 has been kind of off the front burner for a while. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think it's something we 24 need to continue to look at. Indigent defense is a huge 25 item, and if there's a -- we've talked occasionally about 9-21-10 14 1 looking at the public defender type programs, whether for 2 capital cases or just overall, and I think we just need to 3 continue to look at that and to get guidance from you and Rex 4 as to what your feeling is. 5 JUDGE WILLIAMS: I think it would be worthwhile for 6 us to set up a meeting and talk about it. One thing I do 7 remember is, when you set up that and set up a person to head 8 that office, the public defender, it's going to have to have 9 assistance. They've got to have, you know, an entire office 10 budget, their benefits, their salaries and, you know, their 11 library, all those things added together. That mounts up 12 pretty quick also -- quickly also. And so I don't remember 13 those numbers off the top of my head. I've got it up in my 14 office, and if you want to set up a meeting and talk about it 15 some more, be happy to do that, okay? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Judge, I think the numbers that we 17 looked at when we were considering a regional -- we looked at 18 both the regional and just the Kerr County, and the numbers 19 of switching over to a public defender at this point in time, 20 there didn't seem to be any savings, even possibly a higher 21 cost to go public defender at this time. 22 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Well -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Is my recollection. 24 JUDGE WILLIAMS: That's my -- I just couldn't state 25 a specific number. That's why I hesitated a bit there. The 9-21-10 15 1 -- the issue of public defender and the issue of indigent 2 defense public defender and this capital program all sound 3 very well. The capital issue is a whole 'nother proposal, 4 borne out of Lubbock. You know, and using -- it's kind of 5 like an insurance policy. You pay a certain amount, and if 6 you happen to have a capital offense, they pay for 7 everything. The indigent defense public defender program is 8 a day-in, day-out, every day, and if -- once we start looking 9 at all the budget requirements for staffing, for support 10 staff, for the assistants -- I mean, the legal assistants, 11 the associates, the lead defender and all this stuff, the 12 number of people it would take, it -- it was pretty 13 comparable. But I just can't quote numbers off the top of my 14 head. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My gut feeling is we're 16 possibly better off basically using the contract attorneys we 17 use now rather than setting up our own department and growing 18 county government even more, but it's just something that we 19 need to always be aware of, and there may be a point that it 20 makes more sense to have a public defender office, as opposed 21 to using contract defense attorneys. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of course, all the other -- 23 all the other counties in the district would have to buy into 24 the concept as well. 25 JUDGE WILLIAMS: For it to work, that's right. And 9-21-10 16 1 they'd have to share in that as well. But the -- we do have 2 a very good defense bar pretty much across the board, that 3 most of them -- again, as Becky mentioned, her business being 4 60, 68 percent or whatever in Kerr County, most of our 5 defense attorneys are in Kerr County. We do need to keep a 6 look on the -- keep a watch on their billings and -- and make 7 sure all them are held accountable for what they bill and 8 make sure everything is right there. They have been at the 9 same rate for a long, long time, and we do hear about that 10 periodically, because it's -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the hourly rate? 12 JUDGE WILLIAMS: It's 70. And I'll tell you, in 13 private practice in most areas -- maybe not in Kerrville, but 14 I know San Antonio, Austin, you know, legal assistants are 15 billing in excess of that, up to $100, $125, $150 an hour. 16 Routine rates for, you know, attorneys, upward of $200 an 17 hour up, some in between 100 and 200. You don't hear of 18 lawyers anywhere billing for $70 an hour. But these guys are 19 willing to do it as part of their practice, and they're very 20 conscientious, good people to work with. And because of that 21 rate, it keeps the -- the numbers down. But it's 22 something -- since it is a large part of the budget, 23 something we do need to keep -- keep a check on. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you. 25 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Anything else? 9-21-10 17 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more issues with regard to 2 District Courts? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 5 JUDGE WILLIAMS: All right. Thank y'all very much. 6 MS. HENDERSON: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate you being here, thank 8 you. Okay, we've got a number of other items that -- that 9 are before us. It was not my intent in posting this agenda, 10 talking about specific budget items, to look at every line 11 item of every budget. I think some may have gotten that 12 impression. That certainly wasn't my intent. We had some -- 13 some major budgetary issues that we were on again, off again 14 about. I think the members of the Court are all -- all aware 15 of that, and we need to decide whether or not we are on or 16 off, as the case may be. I do have a couple of public 17 participation forms that I'd like to address right now. The 18 first one was filed by Mr. Patrick Quinn. Mr. Quinn, if 19 you'll be kind enough to come forward and give us your 20 address, and tell us what's on your mind. 21 MR. QUINN: Patrick Quinn, 192 Hoot Owl Hollow 22 West. I don't know where Hoot Owl Hollow East is yet. But 23 Ingram, Texas. (Laughter.) I was also looking over some of 24 my records yesterday, and I noticed -- my wife and I moved 25 into our house in February of 2001. My county -- not my 9-21-10 18 1 school taxes; my county taxes have gone up 50 percent since 2 2001 on my house. I also noticed, if I got my figures right, 3 looking at y'all's budget proposed for this year, and the 4 budget that was posted for 2005-2006, that the Commissioners 5 cost -- not including the Judge, just the Commissioners cost, 6 the four Commissioners, expenses have gone up 26 percent in 7 five years. I'm wondering, $50,000 a piece, plus the -- 8 what's the average salary in Kerr County? I bet you it's not 9 50,000 bucks. And I'm wondering why -- why politicians seem 10 to think they're worth more money than the people they 11 represent. And I also wonder why elected officials should be 12 able to raise their salaries while they're in office. When 13 elected officials run for the office, y'all obviously know 14 what it's going to pay. Why should you be able to raise your 15 salaries during your term? Maybe you should raise it and 16 then the next person, even if it's the same person, could get 17 the raise. But I can't figure out why that happens. And I 18 also wonder why a public body should be able to raise taxes 19 without a vote of the people. Thank y'all. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Also, Mr. Frank 21 Davis. 22 MR. DAVIS: Good morning. Frank Davis, 126 Aaron, 23 Kerrville. I know everybody in this room knows that 24 Kerrville is the place to live. It's a great -- great city, 25 and Texas is the state, and the U.S.A. that we grew up in is 9-21-10 19 1 the country, and the free country that we all love. And I 2 know that you men are doing all you can do to stay on top of 3 our needs and to keep us solvent. I appreciate that. But 4 ever since 9/11, America and our form of government and our 5 Constitution and free enterprise and capitalism has been 6 under attack, and it's still going on even more so today, as 7 all of you realize, in the name of change. When there's 8 abrupt change, I think it, more so now, has killed three jobs 9 for every job it's created in the name of environment or 10 green jobs or clean energy. So, therefore, we've -- we have 11 states -- we have 13 states now that may face a 13 -- a three 12 trillion dollar deficit because of mismanagement. 13 And that's -- of course, that's not here in Texas, 14 but -- but I think that all of us are going to have to look 15 at things and -- and adjust ourselves and our way of life. 16 We've accustomed -- been accustomed to a way of life that's 17 of prosperity and luxury, and maybe self-indulgence, and that 18 leads on into apathy. And I think that the apathy, though, 19 has been awakened by what we see going on in the media, which 20 the silent moral majority is awakened. But I think it's a 21 way of life we've gotten accustomed to, I think, for 40 -- 40 22 years or so. I've noticed when there's been job seekers come 23 for a job, they sometimes come with their hand out. They 24 say, "What are the benefits?" You know, "Is there sick 25 leave? Is there time off?" You know, "Do I get a vacation? 9-21-10 20 1 And how about retirement, and maybe some hospitalization?" 2 So, I think in the old -- the way that the people 3 at Valley Forge back then, they -- they didn't have that type 4 of thinking. So, I think in the way that things are going 5 now, that -- that, as David Hamilton brought out last week, 6 and as -- he's from Mountain Home, and Greg Perkl brought out 7 last week about the -- reported how the government entities, 8 and as they talked about the Appraisal District, and just 9 government entities have the power and can raise funds, you 10 know, for things that they deem necessary. But I think 11 there's a proverb that says that if we spend -- spend money 12 -- spent money for things that aren't actually needed, that 13 we won't have enough money for the things that really are 14 required and that we actually need. So, you men are all men 15 of substance. You're men of experience, and I think that's 16 -- that's to our advantage. You have -- it benefits this 17 community and the constituents. But I'm just troubled in a 18 way that you men -- you may underestimate the severity of 19 more tough times that are ahead. 20 AUDIENCE: Yes. 21 MR. DAVIS: With the way that our government's 22 headed. There's been 34 Democrats that have signed and sent 23 a letter to cut taxes to the President, and there's a 24 governor up in New Jersey that's having to make changes 25 because there's -- the pensions and -- the pensions and the 9-21-10 21 1 unions there have some -- some unrealistic goals. So, you -- 2 you as leaders stand in front of us to protect us, and I know 3 sometimes the leaders have to take the bullets, but you have 4 to make hard decisions. But it seems reasonable to me 5 that -- that we're going to have to change our thinking and 6 realize that we're going to have to do without some things 7 that we've enjoyed in the past. But seems reasonable to me 8 that the -- that the -- that you, as a group, could model and 9 be an example to the county, department heads and the 10 employees as well, and to the public sector. The public 11 sector, of course, are the ones that, as you know, don't have 12 the benefits sometimes, but have to -- have to fund the 13 things that we need in the county. 14 So, I think as an option, maybe the elected 15 officials, whose salaries were posted last week, would 16 prayerfully consider taking a salary reduction of 5 percent 17 temporarily, for maybe six months or a year, till we get 18 through this tough time. That would demonstrate a 19 willingness to sacrifice for the benefit of all. And I think 20 this message needs to go to the city administration too. And 21 I think y'all have done a good job trying to work with them. 22 But I just -- those are just some thoughts I bring. And -- 23 and I just want to know what we can do to work with y'all and 24 the city so that we can have efficient government and enjoy 25 the place that we live here. 9-21-10 22 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Bill Drake? 2 MR. DRAKE: Good morning, Commissioners. Good 3 morning, Judge. Thanks for the opportunity to speak briefly 4 again this morning. You know, when politicians ask the 5 public to support them in the course of campaigning, the 6 public rarely realizes that that's exactly what the 7 politician means. They want to be supported. And we support 8 you and your employees by salaries that we pay you. As I 9 said yesterday, I feel like the salaries we pay you are 10 pretty good salaries, and you certainly -- for the most part, 11 I think county employees earn their salaries. My conclusion 12 after looking through the budget is that you are about to 13 spend $1.2 million paying for retirement benefits for county 14 employees, and you're about to spend $1.8 million paying for 15 health benefits for county employees. I would propose to you 16 folks that, given the salaries -- the good salaries that you 17 pay these employees, and given the fact that you're asking 18 for $400,000 in additional property taxes from us, many of 19 whom do not have retirement benefits or health packages, that 20 you could find that $400,000 and more in the benefits 21 packages and the insurance packages that you are currently 22 thinking of paying to the employees of this county. 23 Every speaker so far coming from the county side of 24 things seems to refer to benefits as though they're written 25 in stone, carved in stone. Got to have benefits. I looked 9-21-10 23 1 at a pension database that I use occasionally and researched 2 last night, and didn't have the full amount of time I'd need 3 to produce an exact figure, but over 100 counties in the 4 United States in the last -- since January have either 5 reduced or eliminated the benefits packages for their 6 employees as a way of reducing the budget and staying within 7 budget. 8 One last point. If you were to say to your county 9 employees, "You're well paid. If you want retirement, pay 10 for it yourself. If you want insurance, pay for it 11 yourself," that would generate enough reduction in budget 12 that you folks could lower property taxes in Kerr County by 13 25 percent. That would not only put additional money in the 14 pockets of those of us who are taxpayers of Kerr County, but 15 I'd ask you to consider the kind of economic development 16 impact that might have in terms of attracting new businesses 17 to a county that is serious about cutting expenses and 18 cutting taxes. Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Okay, gentlemen. 20 We've got a number of issues. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I make, before we go 22 too far, -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- two things -- two comments? 25 One, I want to make just a brief statement, kind of a summary 9-21-10 24 1 to a fair number of public hearings about the comments I've 2 heard the past couple days on the public hearings and today, 3 and also then could I ask either you or the Auditor to go 4 over what's in the current budget and what's out of the 5 current budget on some of the items that we talked about? 6 And I have a list from our last workshop, so we can all get 7 on the same page, to make sure -- so we don't, you know, 8 obviously talk about things we've already talked about, and 9 they're already out of the budget. 10 General comments, I think one of the things that we 11 have done a poor job of, evidently, is explaining how county 12 government works, 'cause there's a lot of -- of comments that 13 I hear that there seems, to me, anyway, to be a 14 misunderstanding about really what we have -- we have a lot 15 of unfunded mandates that come down from Washington and from 16 Austin. There's a lot of our -- like, each of the -- as an 17 example, the District Clerk, Linda Uecker. District Clerk is 18 an independent elected official. We are obligated to provide 19 her with a staff and a budget to fulfill her constitutional 20 duties. That's the same as it goes to the Sheriff; same goes 21 to the Tax Assessor, same as it goes to any -- every other 22 elected official in the county. So, a lot of people, I've 23 heard, compare us to the private sector. The problem is, 24 we're not like the private sector in that regard, is that we 25 are mandated by the Constitution of Texas as to what we have 9-21-10 25 1 to fund for a large part. 2 We do have some discretionary items, like, you 3 know, I.T. That's something discretionary. But I think that 4 it is not a good use of taxpayer dollars to have invested 5 into the computer technology that has reduced our overall 6 work force, and then, you know, to go in and cut I.T. out of 7 our budget. It doesn't make sense, 'cause we need to have 8 that service. So, it's discretionary, but it's not truly 9 discretionary. We have very few discretionary items in our 10 budget. That's why we -- and we have to work -- for those 11 that attend a lot of our meetings, we use a lot of dialogue 12 between the Commissioners Court and other elected officials, 13 because we can't make them do something for the most part. 14 We have to provide them -- we can reduce staff -- or reduce 15 their budget, but at the same time, we have to give them the 16 budget they need to do their duties. 17 So, I think that's -- it's interesting to compare 18 us to the private sector, but in many regards, we're not. We 19 have to follow, you know, Obama care, for lack of another 20 word. I'm not sure of the official name of that. You know, 21 that's a Washington mandate, and everyone that -- we are an 22 employer, whether we like it or not. We have a health care 23 plan that we have been giving. I don't think we can just get 24 rid of it. I mean, it's just a matter of -- you know, it 25 sounds good to cut benefits, and believe me, we have cut 9-21-10 26 1 benefits quite a bit this year, but we can't just eliminate 2 them. I don't -- the law will not allow us to do that any 3 more, any more than any other corporation at this point can 4 completely eliminate them, I don't think. There's -- you 5 know, so I think that we evidently have not done a good 6 enough job as Commissioners Court to explain how the county 7 government works. It's not real exciting. We usually tend 8 to not have a whole lot of people out of the public come to 9 our meetings. They come when something happens, like a 10 proposed tax increase. And that's good that they're here. 11 We appreciate your coming and giving us your opinion. But I 12 also wish that, you know, there would be more interest, you 13 know, in the middle of April when we're going through other 14 items on the budget. 15 One other item, just as an example, that's being 16 cut that we're going to have to figure out how to fund is 17 roads. That is under the authority of the Commissioners 18 Court in Kerr County for county roads. There's a gasoline 19 tax that we all pay. There used to be a portion of that -- 20 or still is a little bit of a portion of that that comes back 21 from Austin to help us. I believe it's in two more years, 22 that goes to zero. We need to make -- either the roads go 23 down in quality, which I don't think is what anyone in the 24 public wants, or we have to figure out another source of 25 revenue. We cannot -- unless the Constitution specifically 9-21-10 27 1 gives us the ability to raise a fee or charge a fee or charge 2 a tax, we can't do it. We can't go out and charge 3 cigarettes -- put a tax on cigarettes. We can't put a tax on 4 gas. We don't have the constitutional authority to do that. 5 So, we have to look at the -- where we have sources of 6 revenue, which are fees which are set by the state, ad 7 valorem property taxes, sales taxes. That's basically it. 8 And it's a balance that -- that we have to work within. 9 The -- you know, I don't know how many of y'all 10 have looked at our overall budget, looked at individual 11 department budgets. I know the County Clerk's office is a 12 good example, and District Clerk. They both have reduced 13 staff in the last five years. Part of that was we went into 14 a new computer system, and part of the pledge they gave the 15 Court was if you spend the money on this system, we will 16 reduce staff, because we can improve efficiency. We've done 17 that. They did that; they held up their part of deal. We 18 put the system -- or approved the authority to budget it, and 19 they have cut staff. So, I think if you look back at a lot 20 of the items, you know, look at individual offices, I think 21 there have been a lot of -- of, you know, very fiscally 22 responsible budget decisions made over the last years. You 23 know, pay raises, you know, it goes with the territory with 24 Commissioners Court. By law, we have to set the -- set the 25 salaries, and part of that law is we have to set our own 9-21-10 28 1 salaries. 2 Now, I agree it's not a perfect system. I didn't 3 like it when I first became elected, but it's part of 4 reality. Most of the increases I believe we've had for all 5 elected officials, really, I think, are mostly cost-of-living 6 adjustments. So that's something that, you know, I can argue 7 both sides of that as to how we should handle elected 8 officials' salaries, but the reality is, we have to -- the 9 five of us up here have to set it. That means we have to 10 take the hit for what we set them at. That's really -- I 11 just wanted to make those general comments, and then figure 12 out, you know, what is in the budget, Judge. 'Cause I 13 believe that a lot of the questions that the people brought 14 up are -- are included in the current draft that we're 15 working off, such as the COLA is off the table, as I 16 understand it. There is a substantial decrease in benefits 17 from the standpoint that employees are paying part of their 18 health care. That's in the budget right now. So, we've done 19 a lot of the things that I'm hearing people are asking us to 20 do. We may need to go further, in some of your opinion, and 21 that's -- you know, we may not. That's something we will be 22 deciding, I think, in the next few minutes. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, confirm these for me, if 24 you would, please. Of the major items that we've been 25 discussing over the last several weeks, as Commissioner Letz 9-21-10 29 1 said, the COLA which was originally included to offset the -- 2 the employees' requirement to contribute to the cost of the 3 health benefits system, that COLA is out. 4 MS. HARGIS: That COLA has been removed. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: But the requirement that the 6 employees contribute to the health care system and bear part 7 of that cost is still in, correct? 8 MS. HARGIS: That is correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. The -- the issue of 10 reductions, the $250,000 reduction by midyear that I 11 originally put in as a reduction in force has been eliminated 12 in favor of an attrition policy. 13 MS. HARGIS: That is correct. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on -- but on the 16 attrition policy, there's no budget number for that, is 17 there? 18 JUDGE TINLEY: No, not yet. 19 MS. HARGIS: No, we have no budget number. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: That may be something that we'll get 21 into today, and I fully anticipate that we will. With 22 respect to the -- the -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: City. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- city issues, the reduction in 25 contribution to our joint programs with the city, there -- at 9-21-10 30 1 the last meeting, as I recall, there was a suggestion to 2 reduce that by 100,000. Under the current numbers that 3 you've crunched for us and that we have in front of us right 4 now, is that 100,000 reduction in or out of that budget? 5 MS. HARGIS: The reduction is -- has not been 6 removed. The -- the request from the city, the original 7 request is as they requested. We have not reduced that 8 number as of yet. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So that the 100,000 reduction 10 is not included in the current number. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's definitely one of 12 those things we want to talk about today. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: And I fully anticipate that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Road and Bridge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The $190,000 reduction in the 18 sealcoating program, deferral of next year's sealcoating 19 program, that reduction is in this current budget? 20 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. That has been -- that 21 190,000 has been removed. We have also -- for the public, 22 we've reduced our airport expense by over 150,000, plus our 23 -- the normal expense by another -- probably another $75,000, 24 so we saved probably close to 250,000 to 300,000 in our 25 airport expense with what the Commissioners did when we set 9-21-10 31 1 the airport up this year. That's been a huge savings. Even 2 though we have a contract with them, we have managed to save 3 that much money. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: What other categories do you got 5 there, Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can't read my own writing. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't you talk about a 8 reduction of salary for elected officials? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did talk about it. We had 10 it on the board. I think I brought it up; Commissioner 11 Oehler supported it. It was a 2 and a half percent reduction 12 for the commissioners only -- or I guess Commissioners Court 13 salary. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And would -- you know, that cut 16 would be voluntary for all other elected officials, but 17 hopefully they would follow suit. That does mean that to get 18 back to -- even hopefully next year, or back -- or get that 19 back, that will go in as a pay increase, so we'll take hits 20 next year for increasing our salaries, 'cause that's just the 21 way the law goes. We can't say it's for one year only. But 22 I think that it is something that I still do support as a -- 23 going in, as a -- you know, it's really a gesture. It 24 doesn't -- budget-wise, it doesn't make much. But -- 25 JUDGE TINLEY: More of a drop in the 100-gallon 9-21-10 32 1 bucket. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Drop in the 100-gallon bucket. 3 But, you know, I think it is something that does show that, 4 you know, at least our -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: That is not in the current numbers 6 that you have, is it? 7 MS. HARGIS: No, there's no reduction in salaries, 8 but there's no increase in salaries. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ms. Hargis, can you -- I 11 don't know if everybody in the room is aware of what January 12 the 1st, 2011 is going to mean to everybody, especially 13 anybody that has a job, in the increased amount of payroll 14 tax and Medicare tax they're going to be forced to pay. 15 MS. HARGIS: There is a proposal for the increase 16 in tax tables to go up for withholding. I believe it's 4 to 17 5 percent. The Medicare tax depends, again, on your income, 18 but there is an increase slated for January 1 for that as 19 well. So, the take-home pay for all individuals will 20 decrease as of January. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Almost 5 percent. 22 MS. HARGIS: At least 5 percent, and in some cases 23 more. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hargis, I presented a 25 couple of times in here a plan to, one, reduce staff in the 9-21-10 33 1 county; two, to reduce our contributions to agencies around. 2 Did any of that make the cut? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. Some of the agencies were 4 cut. We did cut Dietert, the Dietert Center, their food 5 program. They offered up that they only needed about $3,500 6 instead of 14,000, so we did reduce that one. We eliminated 7 several of the others, but there is still about -- including 8 the E.I.C., I think probably maybe 50,000 left, and that 9 would be on the high side. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was the trapper contract and 11 the money for Ingram and Mountain Home Fire Departments taken 12 out? 13 MS. HARGIS: No, it was not. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, could that be -- my 16 little plan, could that be included in the approval or 17 disapproval? Can I go down the list? And I'll do it real 18 quick, and we vote on every one of them. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: If that's an issue, we certainly -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's an issue to me. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's an issue to me, because 23 if we don't -- in my mind, if we don't participate in trying 24 to cut the budget before we raise taxes, then I won't 25 participate in any kind of tax increase. We have to -- we 9-21-10 34 1 have to work on reducing the budget by cuts before we address 2 raising taxes. That's just -- that's my opinion. That's the 3 way I think. So -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's make sure that we've 5 got any more numbers here, -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only other one -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: -- choices about whether it's in or 8 out. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess it would be on the 10 revenue side, the County working with the City on road 11 projects. That has been done historically at -- basically, 12 free to the city. They bought their materials; the county 13 provided the labor and the equipment at no cost. And I 14 brought up last time that I think that I liked -- the program 15 is good, but I think we should at least get, at minimum, a 16 reimbursement for our labor cost and a reimbursement for our 17 equipment cost at the FEMA rate, which is a below-market 18 rate, certainly. And I believe the Road and Bridge 19 Administrator said that was 50,000 for next year's plan 20 program. So, I don't know -- is that included on the revenue 21 side? 22 MS. HARGIS: No, that would be included in the Road 23 and Bridge side, and no, it is not. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, it is not. But I still 25 think that that needs to go forward. If the city -- and 9-21-10 35 1 that's really up to the city. If they -- if they choose to 2 participate in the program, then they -- that revenue to the 3 county is part of the plan. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I totally agree with that. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions about what is in 6 or not in? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's all I had on my 8 list, Judge. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right, Commissioner, 10 we're going to check with you now. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, sir. Take these; 12 pass them around. I only have enough for the Court. And I 13 guess what we'll do is I'll just go down the list and I'll 14 make a motion, and let everything die for lack of a second. 15 But -- 16 AUDIENCE: That's being optimistic. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Are you predicting? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to get it in the 19 record. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just start with the 22 employee separation part of it first. I move that we reduce 23 the Maintenance Department by one employee -- let me do the 24 whole thing and see if we can -- all right. Maintenance 25 Department by one employee, Auditor's office by one employee, 9-21-10 36 1 County Clerk by two employees, Assessor/Collector by two 2 employees, the Sheriff's Office by two employees, Road and 3 Bridge by two employees, the I.T. Department by one employee. 4 I move that we reduce our staff by that many. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion. Do I hear a 6 second? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 9 Question or discussion on the motion? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I have a question. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's some hands up out 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In the Road and Bridge 14 Department, Leonard gave up a whole year's sealcoating to 15 maintain the staff so he wouldn't have to retrain. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might have to think that 17 one again. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe that one needs to 19 be rethought. And I also think I.T. needs to be rethought. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it needs to be 21 justified. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As far as the rest of it 23 goes, I'm in agreement. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I.T. needs to be 25 justified. Going from a one-man to two-man to a three-man, I 9-21-10 37 1 think that needs to be justified by the department head. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think he should -- he 3 should do that if we can do it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment is, I like the 5 numbers. I support the numbers, but I'm -- the way your 6 motion is, the way we do it is that we cut these positions 7 and lay the people off October 1. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which requires unemployment 10 compensation for the year, so we're not gaining anything -- 11 for two years, so we're not really going to gain much. 12 Whereas if we take an attrition program -- and we know the 13 Sheriff has already brought up that he is willing to go 14 down -- my understanding is, two employees. If he can do it 15 through attrition during the year, then we get a real budget 16 impact this year and accomplish a better budget scenario for 17 the future. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Actually, they should be 19 attrition goals for the entire next budget year. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- so, I mean, I can't 21 support -- I don't see that it helps us budget-wise, and I 22 can't support making -- you know, canceling these positions 23 effective October 1st. But I think we can get there with a 24 better budget impact through an attrition package. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only attrition that's 9-21-10 38 1 going to work without assurance that they won't refill are 2 the ones that are -- that are department heads and not 3 elected officials. Is that correct? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 'Cause if 5 it's in the budget, then the elected official can fill the 6 job. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or 10 discussion from the Court? 11 MS. BOLIN: I'm not on the Court, but I do have 12 something to say. On the two people in my office, right now, 13 including my Ingram person, we're up one person from 26 years 14 ago when I started here. We collect for 11 jurisdictions. 15 We collected for six when I started here. The national Voter 16 Registration Act put enough work in voter registration to 17 make it a part-time job -- that was a part-time job, to a 18 full-time job. With the state mandates, eventually it became 19 two people. The motor vehicle department has managed to stay 20 at exactly the same number as we had 26 years ago. We are 21 considered a large county in the state. We're charging the 22 extra dollar because we do over 52,000 registrations a year. 23 We took on elections in my office a couple years ago. It's 24 worked great. My understanding from the County Clerk was 25 that she and her employee, the one that I got, Nadene, that 9-21-10 39 1 it was a full-time job for the two of them. Plus we had two 2 in voter registration. When I brought Nadene over, that 3 brought us down to three for the two departments. When my 4 chief deputy retired last month, that put me to two in that 5 department. During the presidential election, it took every 6 person in my office working the mail-in ballots, because we 7 did over 3,000 mail-in ballots. I cannot afford to lose any 8 more people in my office. We are getting pushed on by the 9 state for motor vehicle. We're getting ready to add another 10 jurisdiction to us. I've had the three schools we don't 11 collect for ask me for bids so that we can collect for them. 12 I cannot lose any more people. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Diane, what if we tell everyone 15 that we're collecting for we're not going to collect for them 16 any more? 17 MS. BOLIN: By law, you can't do that. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't? 19 MS. BOLIN: No. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to collect? 21 MS. BOLIN: If they request it, we have to collect 22 it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But can -- can we charge for 24 that? 25 MS. BOLIN: And we do charge for that. 9-21-10 40 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we charging a sufficient 2 amount to pay the cost? 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 4 MS. BOLIN: Oh, yes. 5 MS. HARGIS: Yes. That's about a $300,000 revenue 6 line item. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? Uh-oh, he got an armload. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I hear them. Everybody 10 worries about it when I decide to talk. First off, I know 11 it's -- you know, and I've been with the county 30 years, and 12 this is the hardest year I've ever seen us all go through. 13 The freeze hurt us all. A lot of things hurt us over the 14 years, you know, right or wrong decisions. But as far as my 15 department goes, I do have the largest department in the 16 county. Face it, I have a total of 96 employees -- 96 and a 17 half, jail and Sheriff's Office. We have three less 18 employees than we had in 2006. There's a lot of things we 19 combined and did. But just to give you a few things that I 20 think have to be considered, the jail would be extremely hard 21 to cut personnel out of. A lot of that's mandated by -- by 22 the state on the number of people and the ratio and 23 everything else. 24 Plus -- and I hope I don't jinx myself, but the 25 last suicide we had in that jail was in 2004. We have 9-21-10 41 1 probably three to four suicide attempts a week, and it's the 2 staff and the constant observation of those inmates that 3 keeps those from being successful, okay? It's the staff 4 cutting them down. It's the staff rushing in, grabbing them. 5 It's the staff doing whatever that keeps us from having 6 suicides in the jail. A lot of things we do in the jail are 7 mandated through the state. We're not Arizona. We have a 8 state jail commission that requires how I treat inmates and 9 how we do them. The county does not pay for TV's. The 10 county does not pay for a lot of things. That is paid for 11 out of commissary; it has to be dedicated to that. We have 12 not had a jail escape in over 15 years, right at 15 years. 13 We had one right after that jail opened; we haven't had one 14 since. Right now, it's even more of an issue that we don't. 15 Look at the number of apartment buildings and the number of 16 little kids running around within 100 yards of our jail, and 17 that's a very big concern of mine, especially since one of my 18 kids live in those apartments, two little girls. Personally, 19 I've got nine grandkids, and I don't want to face that. 20 The Sheriff's Office itself, the patrol deputies, 21 we have not added patrol positions. I've agreed -- and I 22 know you can't make it -- and maybe the public doesn't 23 understand this, but it was alluded to a while ago, and I 24 think it needs to be repeated. Y'all can't -- if you approve 25 my position schedule effective October 1, you can't keep me 9-21-10 42 1 from filling that, because I'm an elected official and those 2 people work under me, okay? So the only thing you can do, 3 unfortunately, is cut that position schedule effective 4 October 1. You don't vote on the budget or that position 5 schedule until September the 27th, so if you vote to cut 6 those two positions on September the 27th, I'm fully staffed; 7 I have three days to tell people they aren't employed any 8 more. And there is no severance package, okay? And I think 9 that's drastic on people with families. That's the one 10 issue. 11 Now, I can agree to try and do it through 12 attrition, and you can hold me to that agreement come next 13 year's budget, that if I went back on my word -- which, if a 14 Hierholzer ever went back on their word, there's going to be 15 a lot more issues than just dealing with y'all. But if I 16 did, then you can cut my budget next year. I've agreed that 17 I will have an opening come January 1, because one of my 18 employees got elected to be a J.P., and I've agreed to refill 19 that opening -- because it is a patrol opening, and I don't 20 want to cut patrol to the county -- from within, effectively 21 cutting that position. I have one other position that is a 22 part-time position. It's a part-time deputy. That position 23 doesn't bring much money; it hasn't cost this county much 24 money. A lot of times that person volunteers work. I will 25 agree right here today to cut that part-time position. I'll 9-21-10 43 1 cut that part-time position and I'll redo the internal. 2 But one thing that I think you ought to be made 3 aware of is, just last week the state came out with the crime 4 stats for the state of Texas, okay, and where all the 5 counties are within the state. Now, I haven't had the time 6 to look through that couple of hundred pages, but I did look 7 at all the counties around us. Between the police 8 departments and the Sheriff's departments both, whether it be 9 Kerrville, whether it be Bandera, Gillespie County, 10 Fredericksburg P.D., Boerne P.D., Kendall County, every 11 county around us, and the employees and the officers you have 12 working for the Sheriff's Department as -- and it's something 13 we've worked very hard to do for the last 10 years that I've 14 been Sheriff. On the major crimes, as far as aggravated 15 assault, our clearance rate is at least 5 percent higher than 16 any agency around us. On burglaries, our clearance rate is 17 over 10 percent higher. On thefts, our current -- our 18 clearance rate is over 10 percent higher. It's almost 15 19 percent higher than any agency around. We do that with 10 20 less officers right now than the City of Kerrville has, and 21 more population, and a whole lot more square miles to serve. 22 If I have to cut any more than what I'm agreeing to 23 cut with you today and trying to help solve this issue, 24 'cause it is -- and I don't think that -- in some ways, to 25 me, cutting employees is like cutting an investment. 9-21-10 44 1 Sometimes your investment that you cut, if you get rid of 2 your principal, it's gone. When times do turn around, you 3 don't -- you know, you're having to start all over. This is 4 just my training manual for a jailer. It's a 12-week 5 program. This isn't the policy manual that he has to learn. 6 This isn't the state standards he has to learn. This is a 7 training manual, the FTO manual that he has to go through 8 just to be one of our members. It's 12 weeks minimum. The 9 deputies is 14 weeks minimum. I don't care how experienced 10 they are or anything else to do things for our department. 11 It's a 14-week training program. That 14 -- and that's if 12 they get through every phase right and every phase done. 13 That 14 weeks, he doesn't count as an employee, technically, 14 because he's with somebody else. He's training and learning 15 Kerr County and Kerr County's ways, okay? 16 If you lay off employees, thanks to Obama, now they 17 can collect unemployment for up to 120 weeks. That's two 18 years of unemployment that we're going to pay that employee. 19 How much are we really going to save? How much is that 20 unemployment for those employees going to cost? Are we going 21 to save a salary? But we're going to set a department back 22 years. You're going to set the -- the ability -- the morale 23 we've already really devastated this year, just because we 24 can't do things behind closed doors. We can't have a City 25 Manager meet with department heads and set a budget, and then 9-21-10 45 1 it just comes to a City Council or somewhere else just for 2 one vote. Everything the county does is out in the open, and 3 that's good. I have no problem with, you know, standing here 4 in front of everybody and saying what I feel and how I should 5 fight for my employees, and how I should fight for law 6 enforcement in this county. 7 This county's law enforcement has improved, in my 8 opinion, and not because of me. Because of the dedicated 9 employees that we have, okay? And it has improved greatly. 10 I can remember when our clearance rates weren't anything. I 11 can remember when our turnover rate in that department was at 12 least 10 employees a month. I'm fully staffed, and until 13 January, I don't anticipate any openings. But if you make me 14 cut a position come October 1, the one thing -- I hate to say 15 it, because I won't cut what we built. I won't cut the jail, 16 because we've got the best jail in the state of Texas. We've 17 never had an issue on a jail inspection. I've even 18 challenged jailers, and the Judge -- or the inspectors, and 19 the Judge and everybody can attest to this. I've challenged 20 them to find something wrong, and they haven't. 21 We are teaching a state jail jailer certification 22 course out at our office right now. We've got jailers from 23 Hondo, from Medina County, from Gillespie County, from 24 Kendall County all attending that, at no cost to Kerr County. 25 We teach it with our staff, and that way my jailers going 9-21-10 46 1 through it, which are about four or five right now, don't pay 2 a dime to go through it. And my staff volunteers the 3 instructor time to do it, so we don't pay it. Those other 4 counties pay. They pay AACOG to do it, but we don't, okay? 5 We've cut that. We teach it there, and that's why I wanted a 6 training facility a little bit better. It saves this county 7 money. We combine. We did away -- we contracted out in the 8 last few years with the medical services in the jail. We cut 9 four employees out of there to save this county money. We 10 contracted with food service in the jail, because I went from 11 $1.53 a meal on average to $1.20 a meal is our cost, and 12 that's including employees; that includes everything. We cut 13 that the last few years. We've cut everywhere we can cut. 14 These county departments, it's not like any other 15 agencies. I mean, we've got you five; we have to stand up 16 here in front of you with the media and everybody else behind 17 us taking notes every time we try and do a budget. County 18 doesn't have any fat in their budget. And the only way the 19 county can raise tax -- raise funds and revenues is through a 20 tax increase. I don't like it. None of us like it. But I 21 don't want to start over in the department, either. The last 22 place that I have to cut, if you force me to cut any more in 23 my position schedule, is going to be our outside trustee 24 program, because that doesn't so much affect the service I 25 provide to the citizens. But if I cut that outside trustee 9-21-10 47 1 program, gentlemen, Tim's going to need four or five more 2 employees, okay? I've tried to stand up here and talk about 3 employees county-wide, and for the last week now, after I 4 thought we had a consensus last week, you know, I've had to 5 look at it, had to look at it and had to think of what's best 6 for law enforcement and the jail in this county. And the 7 last place I can cut is going to be the outside trustee 8 program, 'cause that doesn't affect the law enforcement 9 service I provide to the citizens. And so I -- that's not a 10 threat. It's not anything else. I'm willing to give up one 11 and a half positions through attrition, and that's the best I 12 can do. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, if -- I don't want to go 14 into details 'cause of personnel, but there may be some other 15 openings through attrition. There may be some other 16 possibilities during the year; is that correct? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If -- if I had some, I won't 18 let it be from any more officers. I'm 10 down; I'm fixing to 19 be 11 less, you know, for a bigger area. I can't -- I won't 20 cut officers any more. I think that puts even the ones we 21 have in danger. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a possibility. 23 Depends on what people choose to do in the future, correct? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I won't say it -- I will not 25 say it's not impossible. If I had a clerk position -- and we 9-21-10 48 1 only have, like, six or eight for the entire department; 2 that's jail, Sheriff's Office, everything, okay? -- and I 3 could find a way to combine those duties, I'd be more than 4 happy to try and look at that with y'all and see if we could. 5 But right now, October 1, or by January, the only thing I can 6 say is the part-time position and the one that I'll lose in 7 January. And that way, I don't have I to cut services to the 8 citizens. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a person and a half. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A person and a half. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that -- and that is 12 January 1? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The half could be October 1, 14 because that is a half. That's a part-time position we use, 15 and that doesn't affect anything. The full person would have 16 to be January 1. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bollier, you wish to be heard? 20 MR. BOLLIER: Morning, fellas. I believe when we 21 first started this budget process, that we were all in 22 agreement that the Maintenance Department needed to add a 23 person, since we were already adding the new jail annex over 24 there, and now we've also got another facility over there; 25 the old J.D. building, the front half of it, has been taken 9-21-10 49 1 up by juvenile detention -- probation. Now, that's two 2 facilities that I've had added on me, okay? That makes 17 3 total facilities that I have to -- that I have to maintain, 4 clean, and the Ag Barn, I have to make set-ups out there. I 5 have one man out at the Ag Barn, and if I don't have any 6 community service work, then I have to take people away from 7 what I normally have them doing during the day and place them 8 out there. There's a total of six maintenance personnel, 9 counting myself, and three custodians. We have all these 10 facilities to keep clean and everything. But without the 11 personnel, I can't keep them clean and keep the Ag Barn 12 running. There's -- I don't see that. And then if Rusty 13 does what Rusty says he could do, is take the trustees away, 14 then how are we going to get the mowing done? We're not. 15 You're cutting me to the bone. There's just not enough 16 people out there. That's all I have to say. Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 18 MS. HARGIS: And if I can speak for my own 19 department, I believe when I was hired, one of the reasons 20 that the prior auditor left was because there was fraud, and 21 he didn't find it. And I have audited every single 22 department in this building, plus I have to audit outside 23 agencies. I have taken on the airport now. I've taken on an 24 additional D.A., and I have managed every single grant that 25 has come into this county. I have saved over $2 million in 9-21-10 50 1 actual cash dollars for this county in the last 12 months. I 2 cannot do it with one less people. I am tired of working 14 3 hours a day. I have three people today. They had three 4 people when I got here. We haven't grown since -- in the 5 last 10 years that I know of. So, I cannot do with one less 6 person and do what we need to do. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 8 MS. PIEPER: My turn. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, Ms. Pieper. 10 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, y'all know that I have 11 worked with y'all ever since I took office, and I am down 12 four staff members, and I have agreed to cut one. And now 13 I'm being asked to cut two. I've been in this office long 14 enough -- I've been here 25 years, been a clerk 12. I know 15 what I need. And it has really put a burden on me. I'm not 16 going to have enough court support staff if I -- if I cut 17 two. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Pieper, I know that Commissioner 19 Letz, in talking with the Sheriff -- if there should be 20 future openings in your office that you don't anticipate at 21 this time during the coming budget year, even if those 22 positions, of course, are funded, I assume you'd be willing 23 to sit down with the Court and really have a frank discussion 24 about what your needs are, if there's some way you might be 25 able to restructure your office or shuffle job duties around 9-21-10 51 1 to try and help the overall cause of reducing costs? 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir, I would agree to that. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just to make it clear, the 5 one opening you have right now, you're agreeing not to fill 6 that? 7 MS. PIEPER: That's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that in the budget now? 9 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it's been cut. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's already been included? Or 11 removed? 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That position is not funded in the 13 budget, correct? 14 MS. HARGIS: No, the positions have been removed, 15 the one in the District Clerk's Office and the one in the Tax 16 Assessor's office. 17 MS. UECKER: No. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: County Clerk. 19 MS. HARGIS: County Clerk, sorry. I'm -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say those two again. 21 MS. HARGIS: The County Clerk position that was 22 vacated has not been filled, and is not included in the 23 budget going forward. The vacated position in the Tax 24 Assessor's office that was vacated by retirement has been cut 25 from the budget. Those are the only two positions right now. 9-21-10 52 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're down one in each of 2 those departments -- 3 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- currently? Okay. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Mr. Drake? 6 MR. DRAKE: Yes, sir. Thank you. Just briefly, 7 sir, I'd like to reiterate what I mentioned yesterday, that 8 the county is currently spending $2.6 million out of a $14 9 million budget to operate the jail. As you look around the 10 country, cities and counties are experienced with closing 11 their jail, and there are well-established models for how to 12 do that. I'd like to ask the commission, and I'd like to ask 13 the citizens of the county to really think about the pros and 14 cons of closing this jail and eliminating that huge -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We will some other time. 16 You're wasting our time. Judge, I'd like to, I guess -- 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute, let me -- let me 18 address Mr. Drake for just a moment. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The figures he had yesterday were 21 raw figures, and I understand that, you know, not being 22 familiar with the overall operation of the jail -- and I'm 23 probably going to miss some, but -- and the Sheriff can 24 follow on if he feels it's necessary, but the figures only 25 dealt with the -- with the per diem cost to keep a prisoner. 9-21-10 53 1 There were a lot of costs that weren't rolled up in there. 2 For example, there's a significant medical cost to inmates 3 that -- that amounts into several hundred thousand dollars a 4 year. There are personnel costs that are significant when it 5 comes to the logistics of moving those people around, back 6 and forth from wherever you place them. Bandera's got a new 7 jail that's only 25 miles away. Same for Gillespie; they're 8 talking about a new jail. But when you consider the 9 personnel costs, the equipment costs and things of that 10 nature, the logistics in moving those people back and forth, 11 they've got various courts -- court dates through the month. 12 Then, when you put the inmate in a remote county, and the 13 Court-appointed lawyer that you're paying for also has to go 14 confer with his client, you've got those costs that run up. 15 So the figures that you mentioned, Mr. Drake, were relevant, 16 but there's a whole lot more that goes with that. And I know 17 the Sheriff keeps track of those numbers, and it's -- I can 18 assure you, he would love nothing more than to get rid of 19 that jail, because that jail is nothing more than a headache 20 and a liability, a time bomb just waiting to go off. And if 21 there were some way he could unload that jail on anybody, 22 he'd be glad to do it, but it's one of those necessary evils 23 that we have. 24 MR. DRAKE: Sir, my suggestion is that we study the 25 option, not that we commit the act. 9-21-10 54 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. I understand. But I 2 want you to be aware that there are a lot more moving pieces 3 to the puzzle that come into play that we continually look 4 at. 5 MR. DRAKE: I am aware of that, sir. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The last comment I'd like to 8 make, I'd love to meet with Mr. Drake sometime and see if we 9 can figure out a way -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: See if they can contract to take 11 your jail? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we can figure out a way for 13 me to close that jail, I'd be the first one dancing on the 14 courthouse square, I promise you, okay? Because I think I 15 currently have two or three lawsuits pending over that jail. 16 And, unfortunately, when they do file the lawsuits in federal 17 court, they sue me personally and Kerr County, and that's 18 just the way it's been. All right? We've never lost a 19 lawsuit. But if you house inmates out of county -- number 20 one, you're not going to find a jail anywhere around here 21 that can take our average population. Our jail's twice the 22 size of all those around here, and our average population is 23 150 to 160. We would be driving hundreds of miles housing 24 these people. It's going to take just as many staff -- I got 25 a total of 30 some-odd staff in the entire jail right now 9-21-10 55 1 that run this, okay, and it's going to take just as many 2 keeping up with transports going back and forth, unless I 3 pull from covering the streets on patrol and send deputies 4 there. 5 Unfortunately, if you send jailers there, you know, 6 you got to do some extra training on qualifying them with 7 firearms, or we're going to send them unarmed outside the 8 confines of that jail. Plus the other deal is, it doesn't 9 matter whether that inmate is in Kerr County Jail or he is in 10 Comanche County Jail or Lubbock or anywhere else. Me and 11 this county are liable for anything that happens to that 12 inmate or the treatment that county does to him. By the 13 Constitution, the sheriff of the county is solely responsible 14 for the care, custody, and control of those inmates, not 15 Lubbock if they're housed there. So, the lawsuits would even 16 be 10 times worse. And, unfortunately, our lawsuit 17 deductible right now is $10,000, just for the deductible 18 part. And then there's only a percentage after that, okay. 19 So, there's a lot of things. I'd love to sit down and talk 20 with you, and I'll be honest; if you'd come up with a way to 21 close that jail, you know, you'll make the rest of my career 22 tickled to death, 'cause I can remember when I started, the 23 jail population was five. Now it's 150 to 160, and I've seen 24 it over 200. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we're not going to come 9-21-10 56 1 up with a plan in the next two weeks, is what we're dealing 2 with today. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's no way. That's 4 impossible. So -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's get back to the motion. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think I need to 9 amend my motion, as far as the -- 10 MS. BOLIN: I would appreciate it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If the Sheriff's Office is 12 agreeing to make their cuts at a different time than October 13 1, that's fine with me. And the County Clerk and the Tax 14 Assessor have already had their cuts. That's fine with me. 15 So, my motion would amend to -- to take out the S.O., Tax 16 Assessor, and the County Clerk. Would you amend your second? 17 Or are you fixing to flip out and jump out the window? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm waiting to hear what 19 else you have to say. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's all I have 21 on -- I'm amending that motion. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the rest of this 23 page? The other -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will be a separate -- 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you talking about -- now, 9-21-10 57 1 tell us what it is again, the ones that you want to 2 eliminate. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The County Clerk, because 4 she's already -- 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just mark that out? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Tax Assessor 7 same, and S.O. same. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And not Road and Bridge or 9 I.T.? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still want to cut two out of 12 Road and Bridge? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And one out of Maintenance and 15 one out of the Auditor? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct, and I.T. 17 MS. HARGIS: I think there is also constitutional 18 stuff that I can bring forward on mine if I have to. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So my motion stands at that. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We have an amended motion by 21 the original movant. Do I hear a second to that amended 22 motion? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll -- I'll move -- I'll 24 second it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a 9-21-10 58 1 second. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But there's some things 3 about it I want to take note of. First of all, I think the 4 D.P.S. thing -- there's no need to continue to delay the 5 change over D.P.S. We've been talking about that for five 6 years. We either need to fish or cut bait on that one and 7 get rid of it. While you have identified these various 8 categories and department heads from which you want these 9 cuts to come, my preference in the whole thing -- and maybe 10 we're going to get two means to get to the same end -- is 11 that, basically, the Court should, by policy, set what it 12 wants reduced, and we authorize, through budgetary policy, 13 "X" number of employee reductions through attrition within a 14 certain given period of time, and let the department heads 15 and Human Resources people take care of it and make it 16 happen. I really don't like the idea of micromanaging on the 17 basis of Commissioners Court saying S.O., two; R & B, two; 18 and Maintenance, one; and Auditor, one. I think that's 19 micromanaging at its finest. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I was hired to 21 do. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comment on the 23 motion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think we got a 25 second. 9-21-10 59 1 JUDGE TINLEY: He just seconded it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I seconded it. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: He seconded it, yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He did? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With those comments. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't mean I'm going to 8 vote for it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I think attrition is the way to go. 11 It's orderly. You don't dismantle your organization at a 12 time when -- when you're not certain of the performance level 13 of what remains. The unemployment compensation's being 14 increased. I don't know what your net savings is. I just 15 really don't know what it is. It's -- I think it would be 16 practically nil. We've done enough damage and destruction to 17 the morale of the employees talking about throwing people in 18 the street, and we need to shut that down. These employees 19 are what make this county perform the services that it does. 20 I haven't heard a complaint about the performance. Haven't 21 heard a complaint one. All these people that have come in 22 here that have said, you know, "I want you to cut; I don't 23 want you to raise my taxes," I haven't heard a single 24 complaint about, "Well, gentlemen, these people aren't doing 25 their job. I went into the Tax Office and they sat there and 9-21-10 60 1 they didn't help me." Or, "I went into the Clerk's office; I 2 had some questions about a lawsuit. Nobody would respond to 3 me." I haven't heard a single complaint about service. 4 You know, you want the service. These employees 5 have demonstrated they're capable of performing it. Most of 6 these departments have fewer people than they had five years 7 ago because of increased productivity and efficiency, mainly 8 through technology. And, you know, to solve a -- hopefully a 9 temporary problem, and I don't mean just this year; it -- 10 it's got every -- got the earmarks of being just as bad or 11 worse next year. But we got to continue to provide the 12 services, and the employees are the ones that do it. And if 13 we throw them in the street, then we'll hear complaints, and 14 we should. I'm not going to participate and support a 15 mandatory reduction in force of employees in this county. 16 When we have attrition, and a review of that office indicates 17 that we can go without filling that position, maybe 18 temporarily -- maybe, as things improve, we got to go back 19 and fill it, but I'm -- just to achieve a temporary economic 20 benefit, and at the same time dismantle the service that we 21 give to the public, I'm not going to support it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to mention, if you look 23 at that list, Judge, there are proposed 11 -- 11 proposed 24 cuts. That equates to about 11 years of the county paying 25 unemployment tax for the services of people that it no longer 9-21-10 61 1 has. Tell me if that's productive or counterproductive. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11 years? More like 22. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: 22 plus, 120 weeks. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 120 weeks times -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MS. HYDE: Plus your insurance, gentlemen. Don't 7 forget that people, when they're reduced in force, they can 8 apply for COBRA. We pay 65 percent, they pay 35 percent. 9 So, we have not reduced health insurance as well on these 10 folks if they choose COBRA. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, we've 12 made some headway with the elected officials pledging to -- 13 or agreeing to some reduction already. I hope that the other 14 elected officials, if they do have attrition, will not 15 fill -- even though, constitutionally, they can fill their 16 positions if we budget it, but I hope they won't. At least 17 come back to us and let us look at it, because there are 18 future budgets and they'll have to work with us then. I 19 think they will work with us. And I still think we should 20 continue the hiring freeze on all the staff that reports to 21 the Commissioners Court. Those are the only ones that we can 22 constitutionally have a hiring freeze on, and I support that, 23 including Road and Bridge. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, basically, that's what 25 you have. 9-21-10 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where we are. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we heard this 3 morning. That's what we have, because the other departments 4 directly report to us, and so, you know, we can make those 5 decisions if -- if there are staff reductions that happen by 6 attrition during the course of a year. Where, you know, the 7 ones that we couldn't control, other than making the cuts 8 mandatory, are the elected officials. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And they're out. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 12 the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (Commissioner Baldwin voted in favor of the motion.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (Commissioners Williams, Letz, and Oehler voted 17 against the motion.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries -- motion is 19 defeated. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Almost slipped by. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Got excited, didn't he? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, now, the agency 23 reduction part of it, let's -- let's not discuss it. Let's 24 just vote. And I'm going to do each one of them, and let's 25 just do it real fast. I can tell you -- I can tell you right 9-21-10 63 1 now how it's going to go, but I want to do it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before we do it, could we go 3 back to D.P.S.? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure, why not? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The reason I pulled D.P.S. 7 out -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Been talking about it for 9 five years. Let's go. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The reason I pulled -- 11 personally pulled D.P.S. out of the table was we need to give 12 them a little bit more warning than that, in my opinion. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. And I think 14 that's the same -- I will probably vote against some of your 15 other proposals for that same reason. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that we need to go 18 into this year and put a lot of these -- or some of these 19 other entities on notice that funding is doubtful in the 20 future, those positions, and I'd certainly support that. But 21 I do agree with you that -- you know, it's the same thing, 22 really, with -- unemployment really is an issue that comes in 23 if you lay off -- for those that don't know what we're 24 talking about, the county funds the salary of a secretary at 25 D.P.S. We have for -- 9-21-10 64 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Long time. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as long as I've been a 3 Commissioner. Probably -- 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Me too. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a lot longer, going back way 6 before I was a commissioner. Anyway, that's what we're 7 talking about there. Maybe it's time to stop that. It's not 8 a -- it should be a state position, in my opinion. Judge, 9 Mr. Truitt has -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: What have we got back here? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Truitt? 12 MR. TRUITT: Why? Why do we fund that position? 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The rationale, Mr. Truitt, is that 14 by funding a clerk position over there at D.P.S., that allows 15 the troopers themselves, instead of spending a lot of time 16 processing their own paperwork, they're out on the street. 17 Their being out on the street generates revenue. Presumably, 18 at least part of that revenue is for Kerr County. That's 19 been the rationale. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason, just following 21 up, hopefully we can negotiate a change. If we cancel it 22 right now, we're paying two years salary plus insurance. 23 MR. TRUITT: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, where I'm asking, you know, 25 the Court -- I think what Commissioner Baldwin's saying is, 9-21-10 65 1 give us 12 months to work out a deal, 'cause -- to stop that 2 relationship. And if not, maybe we -- you know, we can -- 3 hopefully, we can -- I think we probably can come to some 4 agreement. 5 MR. TRUITT: Is that a common position in all 6 D.P.S. stations across the state? How many counties -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some. 8 MR. TRUITT: How many counties fund that position 9 in other counties? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't know. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know. 12 MR. TRUITT: I think we need to find that out. 13 Number two, I think we need to look at -- if it does provide 14 revenue to Kerr County, we need to find out how much revenue 15 is provided in Kerr County in relationship to the cost. If 16 the cost benefit is not there, get rid of the position. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I agree with you. Just 18 a dialogue, the revenue comes from speeding tickets. 19 MR. TRUITT: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Traffic violations. That 21 revenue exceeds -- or historically has; it probably still 22 does, far exceed the cost of that position. But still -- 23 MR. TRUITT: Plus benefits. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Yeah. 25 MR. TRUITT: Because the -- with all due respect, 9-21-10 66 1 the troopers do not spend the majority of their time on city 2 streets. They do spend a lot of time on county roads. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Spend a lot of time on I-10. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Interstate highway. 5 MR. TRUITT: Or on I-10, where the real revenue is 6 produced. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We get the revenue from D.P.S. 8 Here's our number one J.P. for revenue. 9 JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm a Justice of the Peace, so I 10 can help you there. 11 MR. TROLINGER: And if I could just -- Judge, just 12 to drop something in here, in recent years -- I think it was 13 about four years ago, we added that employee, the capability 14 of logging in the county network and the county systems, so 15 now that employee can connect and interact with the J.P.'s, 16 and I think it's a much more efficient way of doing business 17 with D.P.S. than it was before that. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I do know that because of 19 certain engineering changes that have been made on the 20 interstate system, the ability to enforce the traffic laws by 21 D.P.S. has been greatly curtailed, and I suspect that revenue 22 has been decreased. And, Mr. Truitt, as part and parcel of 23 the cost benefit analysis, I -- I think we're closing that 24 gap. 25 MR. TRUITT: I would totally agree with you, Judge. 9-21-10 67 1 JUDGE MITCHELL: I would like to explain to the 2 public and also to the Commissioners that as for that 3 position over there, as the troopers -- how much revenue that 4 they bring in to the county, just from January to July of 5 this year, we have received 2,225 citations from the state 6 troopers, okay? And each one of those citations, depending 7 on the speed limits they're going or insurance or whatever, 8 they vary; I think the lowest one is $150. So, my point 9 being is that if anybody wants a list of the fees, it will 10 show here. Our troopers need to be on the street to stop 11 this. Not only are they stopping speeders; they're stopping 12 these people that are speeding with carloads of drugs and all 13 that, so they don't have the time to be back in their office 14 doing -- or inputting all these citations. Like I said, 15 there's 2,225 of them just within the last six, seven, eight 16 months. 17 Now, as far as the secretary that's over there, I 18 believe that the understanding of the Court from the very 19 beginning -- and I'm not sure, 'cause I wasn't here at that 20 time, but I believe that the understanding was that that 21 secretary would be inputting the citations that those 22 troopers brought in. And there -- but she is not doing that 23 at this time. I don't know the reasons why. I don't know 24 how busy the troopers keep her over there. That I do not 25 know. I do know that we receive phone calls. Somebody gets 9-21-10 68 1 a citation; they might be coming from California, they might 2 be coming -- going to San Antonio from California, New Mexico 3 or whatever. Most of the time, those people are in town for 4 a couple of days, or when they get back, they immediately 5 call our office. They call our office; they got a citation. 6 We don't have any idea what the -- what the amount of it is. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Mitchell, we don't need to go 8 through all the procedure here. 9 JUDGE MITCHELL: Well, I'm just saying that she 10 needs -- if we're going -- if you want to think about that 11 position and keeping that position -- funding that position, 12 then maybe she can -- if you work with the state department, 13 maybe she could start doing the things that would save the 14 county time, such as inputting the citations. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Your point is that a lot of what you 16 understood she was going to do -- 17 JUDGE MITCHELL: Is not being done. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- is not being done, and you're 19 having to do it in your office? 20 JUDGE MITCHELL: Which is fine. I'm just letting 21 you know. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Mitchell, can the J.P. 23 clerk assimilate this work into one of its -- one of the 24 offices, like yourself, for example? 25 JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm sorry, can they do what? 9-21-10 69 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can this work be 2 assimilated into your office through your clerk? 3 JUDGE MITCHELL: My clerk's already doing it. 4 MS. HYDE: Citations are already being done by the 5 J.P.'s. 6 JUDGE MITCHELL: We're already doing them. We're 7 just saying that if the county is thinking about -- to save 8 her position, is what I'm trying to say, is if -- if, to 9 justify the county paying a portion of her, if she started 10 doing things like this, if you came to an agreement with the 11 state, even for part-time. We have part-time help. We have 12 one clerk each, okay, if they're on vacation, whatever. If 13 we didn't have to hire somebody else from part-time, if 14 something could be worked out with the state, we could get 15 her to come over and fill in. Then that would save part-time 16 money also. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't want to get balled up in one 18 thing and get off down the rabbit trail. We got a whole 19 bunch of issues. 20 MR. TRUITT: Just one question, Judge. Was that 21 2,500 tickets just for your precinct? 22 JUDGE MITCHELL: That's for all four precincts. 23 MR. TRUITT: That's only 10 tickets a day, 10 24 citations a day that this lady's having to put in. 25 JUDGE MITCHELL: No, that's just D.P.S. 9-21-10 70 1 MR. TRUITT: That's D.P.S. 2 JUDGE MITCHELL: We have Sheriff's Office and -- 3 MR. TRUITT: Okay. But we're paying for some lady 4 to sit in the D.P.S. office, and when was the last time we 5 reviewed her job description to see what she's doing? And 6 who's going over there to monitor what she's doing? 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That's a whole 'nother issue, 8 Mr. Truitt, and that one's been raised before about the 9 degree of control and -- and supervision that we have over 10 that individual. That raises some other issues, liability 11 issues. We're aware of all those issues, and your point's 12 well-made. Why don't we take about a 15-minute recess. 13 (Recess taken from 9:40 a.m. to 9:55 a.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 16 we might. We've -- we've got a -- it was described as a 17 visual aid to me, a little bunny here, and every time we go 18 down a bunny trail, that rabbit's ears are going to go up. 19 (Laughter.) That's a signal to -- let's get back on track, 20 okay? Let me see. We had a motion and a second before the 21 Court, and have we concluded the questions or discussion? 22 Oh, that's right, we voted on it. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did vote, yes. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So it's back to you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put the little ears up. 9-21-10 71 1 JUDGE TINLEY: We got sidetracked on D.P.S. All 2 right. What else you got, Commissioner? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The agency -- contributions 4 to the agency reduction, and I'll just go one by one, if you 5 don't mind, and very quickly. And I move that we reduce 6 Ingram Volunteer Fire Department's contribution by $15,000, 7 because they have had the ESD out there for 18, 19 years as 8 -- to raise funds with, and -- and it's just time to reduce 9 our contribution back. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I hear a motion. Do I hear a 11 second? Motion dies for lack of a second. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The trapper contract for 13 $31,400, I move that we eliminate. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 15 second? Motion dies for lack of a second. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The library, Butt-Holdsworth 17 Memorial Library, our contribution of $200,000 a year, and we 18 don't own a brick. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that not come under 20 review in subsequent meetings with the city somewhere later? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that a motion, Commissioner? 22 Maybe I didn't understand. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, it was. I'm 24 sorry. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion. Do I 9-21-10 72 1 hear a second? Motion dies for lack of a second. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Economic development, 3 reduce -- I move that we reduce economic development by 4 $25,000. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 6 second? Motion dies for lack of a second. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we reduce K'Star 8 by $5,000. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- point of order here. 10 K'Star's reduced to 1,000, isn't it? 11 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: It's at 1,000 right now. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't realize that, I 16 apologize. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do you have a motion to make 18 with respect to the $1,000 to K'Star? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we reduce K'Star 20 by $1,000. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 22 second? Motion dies for lack of a second. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we reduce CASA 24 by $1,000. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: CASA has been reduced to zero, if my 9-21-10 73 1 understanding is correct. 2 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Already. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's good budgeting, 5 Judge. Thank you. You're doing a good job. I move that we 6 reduce public transportation by $15,000. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't put anything into 8 it now. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: That's been carved out already. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. We don't have 11 public transportation in Kerrville? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do, but we don't put 13 anything into it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we reduce Big 15 Brothers by $4,000. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe Big Brothers currently 17 stands in the budget at 1,000, does it not? 18 (Ms. Hargis nodded.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Do you have a motion to make 20 with respect to the $1,000 contribution? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Families and Literacy, I 24 move that we reduce it by $3,000. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I believe Families and Literacy is 9-21-10 74 1 at $1,000 also; is that not correct? 2 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do you have a motion to make 4 with regard to the $1,000 presently in the budget for 5 Families and Literacy? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do not. And that 7 completes my list. Thank you very much for your time. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any other things you 9 wish to present? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I need to get to 11 the liquor store here pretty quick. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, they open here in just 13 a few minutes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can we go to the -- the 16 city funding? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's where we are. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a whole? We went over the 19 library, but I'd like to go over -- 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a comment in general, 22 that I met with the Kathleen Butt Foundation -- I think 23 that's the correct name, isn't it? -- the representatives 24 from the foundation that's looking at the overall library 25 master plan, yesterday, including Victoria Mosty, one of the 9-21-10 75 1 ones at that meeting. One of the things I brought up to them 2 that I think we need to look at again -- and this Court 3 brought it up, and I believe the City didn't think too highly 4 of this idea several years ago, of putting it before the 5 voters for a library district, and get the library -- you 6 know, we're not funding it that much any more. It is a -- 7 obviously, largely funded by the city right now. But I'm in 8 favor of that again, and I think they seem to be in favor of 9 it, because they're very concerned about the funding. 10 I learned something I didn't know. I haven't -- 11 don't really look at the city budget that much. But my 12 thought was, under our agreement several years ago, that 13 we -- when we took over the airport and they took over the 14 library, that the -- kind of the funding of the library 15 would -- I thought was going to continue about where it is. 16 And I understand -- they said the library funding has been 17 cut substantially over the last couple of years, their 18 budget. But I just -- I think the library is a worthwhile 19 endeavor, and we should have a good library. But I also 20 think -- I would support putting it before the voters, if the 21 public feels that way, and I think that's the way that they 22 should proceed with that. I've asked them to look at it. 23 They're going to research how you -- how we do that a little 24 bit further. And I said I thought that the -- in the eyes of 25 this Commissioner -- and I don't know about the full court, 9-21-10 76 1 but I said at one time we thought that was a good idea to put 2 it before the voters as a library district, and I would 3 again, you know, bring that up as something I hope we look at 4 this year. Hopefully the city looks at it, and hopefully the 5 Friends of the Library and the -- the Butt Foundation, who's 6 looking at funding a lot of that project, as a direction to 7 go. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember us looking into 9 that, and the district -- that kind of a district was a lot 10 more -- was easier for everybody to deal with than a lot of 11 different kind of districts. It was -- actually, it was. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It looked like something 14 that would be a lot simpler to do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was more attractive to 17 all of us. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it creates another 19 taxing district, is what it would do. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly what it 22 does. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It does. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is attractive. It was 25 looked at or suggested maybe six years ago, and somebody -- 9-21-10 77 1 maybe it was the current librarian, I'm not sure -- said 2 there were some state law impediments to that happening. I 3 have no idea what they are. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- deserves to be looked at 8 again. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it does, but the 10 library funding for this year -- you know, this is part of 11 the agreement we made with the city. It's not -- is it 12 binding? Probably not. But I think from an ethics 13 standpoint, I support the library for this year, but I think 14 that it's time for us to meet with the city on city/county 15 operations again. I really don't support taking the library 16 funding out, but I do support reducing funding to EMS by 17 100,000. They've raised that 139,000 this year. I think 18 that is unwarranted. They've added -- I know part of that 19 increase was due to administrative costs. If they don't want 20 us -- to hear us say that, then I think maybe we can look at 21 animal control and say that we're going to -- we found some 22 administrative costs that we didn't look at three years ago, 23 and we need to bill them $50,000 for animal control 24 administration, and then we can add 50,000 off of the EMS. I 25 don't care how we do the number, but I'm in favor of reducing 9-21-10 78 1 the EMS-slash-animal control to balance out that we reduce 2 our funding 100,000 to the city. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that whole issue 4 has to be looked at, because I think what was said to us had 5 something to do with trying to create administrative cost 6 centers, and those administrative cost centers are, for 7 example, if I understood correctly, how much it costs the 8 city to keep that box in a firehouse on one spot. Well, 9 okay. If you don't know that by now, you should know that, 10 but I don't think that's any basis for coming back at us and 11 asking for well over $100,000 worth of increases, and I think 12 we have to take a long, hard look at that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we 14 reduce the funding on EMS by 100,000. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 17 reduce the EMS funding by 100,000. Question or discussion on 18 the motion? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I do have some 20 discussion. You know, that -- I really support doing that, 21 but at the same time, we're kind of -- you know, that is one 22 of our emergency services that we're -- we rely on that as 23 protection to our citizens out in the county, and I don't 24 know if this is the time to do that. I think it was unfair 25 of the city to come with that kind of an increase in one 9-21-10 79 1 year. And, you know, I don't know how we fight that, 2 unless -- you know, unless we put some kind of maximums that 3 they can go up in any one year or something. This is -- this 4 is tough not to cut, and it's also tough to cut because of 5 what it is. Because, you know, I don't know if the city -- 6 you know, they basically threatened -- I think Motheral made 7 the statement in the paper, "We'll just stop the service and 8 you provide your own." Well, we all know we can't do that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The mayor did that. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't afford -- yeah, the 11 mayor, I'm sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, as an alternative to 13 that, we can -- I would put an "or" in that motion, to stop 14 animal control in the city. Let the City decide which one 15 they want to cut, EMS or animal control. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think -- I think 17 you're starting off with bad, and when you put the "or" in 18 there, you're going to worse. I think there's a more -- 19 there's a bigger issue here, and the bigger issue is the 20 trustworthiness and integrity of -- of the bargain we struck. 21 We struck a bargain with those folks, and as you said, is it 22 something that you can go to the courthouse and enforce? 23 Maybe not. But the last thing I want to do is to sell out 24 our character and integrity for $100,000, or $200,000 or 25 $500,000. I -- I didn't like the bucket of cold water in the 9-21-10 80 1 face by the huge increase in EMS, but what I didn't hear was, 2 "That's not in compliance with the agreement we made." We 3 agreed that that formula would be based upon cost. I didn't 4 hear -- I heard a, "Mercy, that's a big old increase," better 5 than $100,000, but I did not hear it was not in compliance 6 with the agreement which we made. And the folks down the 7 street have already set their budget. They've got that 8 plugged in. Yeah, maybe -- it's obvious we need to sit down 9 and talk with those folks, probably about all of these joint 10 operations. I got no problem with that. But I don't think 11 we initiate those discussions, as honorable people, by just 12 walking away from a piece of the deal. I just don't think 13 it's right. We have our integrity at stake here. And put 14 the shoe on the other foot. Put the shoe on the other foot. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Suppose the city would have pulled 17 the rug at the last moment on us? We'd be a little upset, I 18 submit to you, but I just don't think it's right. Let's get 19 into a discussion with them next year. But I think we are 20 absolutely -- at least morally obligated to honor our deal, 21 or if not legally. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I say that they violated 23 the deal. When they went and recalculated the administrative 24 costs that they never brought up originally, they violated 25 the deal we had on EMS. So, if anyone's violating the -- the 9-21-10 81 1 agreement we had, the city started with it. If they want to 2 violate and go back and look at administrative costs, we have 3 just as much right on the animal control part of that 4 balance. We've never charged them for any administrative 5 costs to animal control. We need to go in there and 6 attribute all that administrative cost to the city. And 7 since that was brought up as part of that balancing of 8 dollars at that time, any administrative costs that we want 9 to bill the city to animal control is exactly what they've 10 done to us, so I don't see how that's violating the agreement 11 at all. 12 Secondly, with EMS, a large area of Bruce's 13 precinct has been carved out as primary responder going to 14 Junction. Kerrville EMS is out -- is secondary. And a good 15 part of my precinct in the east has been carved out. We 16 received zero credit for carving out large areas of the 17 county and reducing their coverage areas. We brought that up 18 twice to them. They go, "Yes, but we have to consider it 19 from a secondary standpoint, so we're not going to give you 20 any credit." Well, why are we doing it? Why are we spending 21 $5,000 in Kendall County every year to have them cover if 22 we're not going to get any credit for it? So, I think the 23 city is the one who's violating our agreement. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, aren't we 25 making a case for saying to them we really reject the 9-21-10 82 1 increase that you put on us this year, but without advance 2 notice or any justification, and we want to sit down and talk 3 about this whole issue immediately? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they gave us 5 justification. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, but they've never 7 really given it to us. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I don't care how we 9 get there, but I -- I just think it is wrong for us to 10 blindly accept that kind of an increase, and them, being the 11 city, recalculating how they calculate their costs, when they 12 object to us doing the same thing. We offered a -- and have 13 acted in very good faith with the city on their streets 14 department. We never charged them for equipment this year. 15 We didn't charge them for county labor. They turn around -- 16 they turn around and go back, figure out how they can nickel 17 and dime us on EMS. They're the ones that aren't acting 18 fairly. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think we should 20 negotiate with them in the very near future, and basically 21 plug this money into the budget, but then not plan to give it 22 all to them until we negotiate. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And then, you know, give us 25 some time and say hey, you know, we're not going to pay you 9-21-10 83 1 if you can't -- if you can't come up with some legitimate 2 costs in -- you know, for this thing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Justification. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I do think that we're 5 obligated to honor our agreement, but we can change the 6 agreement during the course of the year, and we don't have to 7 give them all the money if we don't want to. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You make an amendment to my 9 motion? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do, that -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Specify -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we renegotiate. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- this issue, whether it's in 14 or out of the budget. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or where it's in. If you want 17 to put part of it in contingency, I don't have a problem with 18 that, but I have a problem with leaving it as it is right 19 now. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you not have a 21 problem with? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a problem leaving it in 23 the budget as-is. Putting it in a contingency line item 24 where it's not dedicated to the city, part of it, I can 25 probably live with that. 9-21-10 84 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that idea. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't you make that 3 motion -- amend your motion to that? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Amend your motion. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll amend my motion that the 6 $100,000 go into Commissioners Court contingency, and we will 7 discuss it with the city. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll accept the amendment. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We've got an amended motion 10 now and a second. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me -- 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's talk about that one. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me get clear on this. 14 So, the whole -- the whole amount goes into this other fund? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 100,000. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, 100,000 of it. I see. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're agreeing to a $39,000 18 increase. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not 139. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. I agree with 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it being negotiated 24 during the budget year. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, immediately. 9-21-10 85 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, the sooner the better. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't mean that the money 4 won't be there if they can justify it and we agree to it, but 5 they have to come up with a little bit better -- 6 JUDGE TINLEY: The first mention I've heard that 7 we're outside the agreement is today. I've not heard it 8 asserted before today that they were not within the purview 9 of that agreement. I think the bigger issue is the integrity 10 of agreements that this court makes. I think we've got to 11 preserve it. I think it's very important. Now, immediately 12 entering into discussions, I -- that obviously needs to be 13 done. That obviously probably needed to be done six months 14 ago. But I -- if we're going to negotiate in good faith, and 15 we're going to do it as reasonable people and gentlemen, I 16 don't -- I don't think you do it by -- by putting a gun to 17 somebody's head that we got the money hijacked over here; 18 that you got to give us what we want or we're not going to 19 honor our agreement. I think that's wrong. I'll leave it at 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I still -- you know, you can 22 argue -- I can argue this case either way. I think any of us 23 can. But the thing is, they have -- you know, I'm kind of -- 24 I tend to agree with them going outside the agreement and not 25 -- not being there in good faith. And I think this gives us 9-21-10 86 1 an opportunity to negotiate that deal, and it's not saying 2 that we're definitely not going to pay you, but we need to 3 renegotiate this thing, and we put the money aside, saying 4 that it's there, but, you know, we're just not going to give 5 it to you because you said without real justification that -- 6 that you're owed the money. I think -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we have the ability to 8 give them -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have the ability to pay it 10 if we need to. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you were up first. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to reduce 13 the Sheriff's staff by three. (Laughter.) 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Including me, huh? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If he comes up one more time, 16 it's going to be four. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Starting with you. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think a couple of comments, 19 and I made these before. I think the Court's had an 20 agreement with every employee that we've hired, too. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Speak up, Rusty. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the Court and this 23 county has had agreements with every employee that is 24 employed by Kerr County, our actual employees. I think we 25 had an agreement with them too, okay? Now, what I didn't 9-21-10 87 1 like on the EMS deal was when we had our mayor come out and 2 say, "Fine. You don't pay it, we're going to cut services in 3 the county." Now, to me -- you know, I'm just a dumb old 4 country sheriff, but that's nothing but blackmail. Either 5 pay it or else. Don't justify going up 130,000 in one year, 6 but if you don't pay that 130,000 in one year increase, we're 7 going to cut service. There is another option to this, 8 gentlemen. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a very simple option, 11 okay? Besides that 130,000, EMS gets -- and this is 12 sidetracked, but when EMS gets called out to the jail, it's 13 still a minimum of an $800 bill each time, just from the jail 14 to the hospital. I don't think that's right either. 15 Included in that, they went up on service fees in EMS. 16 Citizens are paying an increase too, but the county's 17 supposed to pay this extra 130,000. If you cut that EMS 18 one -- which I think Kerrville has the best EMS people 19 around, okay? EMS and fire department. I don't think any of 20 us can complain about the service, but they do have that 21 option to do just what they were quoted in the paper as 22 saying, "We're going to cut it." If you cut that library 23 $100,000, what option do they have? Don't say EMS. Don't 24 say any of the rest of this. Cut the library $100,000. Are 25 they going to close it to the county? That's not going to 9-21-10 88 1 affect the service of our citizens in the county in emergency 2 services. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I also believe that it is 4 not inappropriate at this time to raise the cost of animal 5 control services provided by the county to the city over the 6 last two, three years, for which we've charged them zero. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, 'cause they're 8 required by law to have animal control inside the city, okay? 9 If you cut animal control inside the city, what are they 10 going to do then? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Establish their own animal 12 control. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it's going to cost them a 14 whole lot more than 150,000. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot more cost than 16 whatever -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? That's the notice they 18 gave y'all. It's a two-way street. I've watched this court 19 work with the city and bend over backwards for 30 years 20 trying to do everything they could to get along with the 21 city. And when you used to have those little joint meetings 22 with the city, it was raised during those conversations, but 23 it's never failed; eleventh hour, when things got sent over, 24 okay, the county got -- my words -- shafted in a lot of ways. 25 And the city adopted their budgets and said, "Too bad, we've 9-21-10 89 1 already done it. Now you have to pay it." What's their 2 spending budget right now? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 37 million. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And what's the county's? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right now -- we're going to 6 talk about that in a minute. (Laughter.) As if we haven't 7 been talking about it all morning. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three months. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to talk about 10 where it is right now, and it's under 18 million. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, under 18 million 12 compared to 37 million. And they're going to threaten to cut 13 off emergency services to the county if you don't give them 14 that 138,000 increase in one year. Cut the library. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Mr. Drake? 16 MR. DRAKE: Just briefly, thank you. If I 17 understand it correctly, Commissioner Letz' initial proposal 18 would cut $100,000 off of the budget. We have a $400,000 19 proposed increase in property taxes. That would be less 20 100,000. If we take the Sheriff's suggestion of 100,000 from 21 the library, that would be 200,000 of the 400,000 proposed 22 tax increase. You're -- you would be 50 percent of the way 23 toward telling the citizens of the county that you will not 24 be increasing properties taxes this year. Thank you. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Truitt? 9-21-10 90 1 MR. TRUITT: What proof of performance do we get 2 from EMS every year that they have performed the duties, and 3 how many pick-ups have they made in the -- in the county that 4 goes against the hundred and -- whatever the budget is? What 5 type of proof of performance do we get from those people? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: They furnish documentation to us 7 that sets out those numbers, and it's based upon the -- their 8 service out in the county, outside the -- the basic formula. 9 MR. TRUITT: Does the Court have any input into the 10 decision matrix as to the type of service they give, or the 11 boxes -- number of boxes they have to have or -- so you have 12 no input into a decision matrix at all of the city providing 13 the services? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Insofar as the -- the operational 15 aspects or the logistics? 16 MR. TRUITT: Yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir. 18 MR. TRUITT: That leaves a great deal to be 19 desired, with all due respect. I agree that we should go 20 to -- I'm -- I'm really pleased that you brought up the 21 library taxing district. That's a very effective way to take 22 this problem off your hands, and I think it is highly 23 justified. I agree with the Judge in this respect, that 24 there is an ethical issue here. But, at the same time, if 25 you do not have a written contract with the city, which I 9-21-10 91 1 think is a mistake -- it's my understanding that you don't -- 2 that you need to get a contract regarding the animal control, 3 and also on any service we provide the city, because they 4 have tremendous wiggle room, and they got a heck of a lot 5 more money to -- to take issues. And the way they do their 6 budget has issues also, and we all know that. So, all 7 they're doing is passing the buck to you gentlemen, and I 8 don't think that's fair, with all due respect. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: We do have written contracts that 10 were put in place a few years ago, and those contracts have 11 been extended, but they do probably lack some -- some content 12 that would be -- 13 MR. TRUITT: Need a little fine-tuning? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Probably so, yes, sir. 15 MR. TRUITT: Well -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think there is some 17 fine-tuning that's about to happen, maybe. 18 MR. TRUITT: Well, with all due respect, gentlemen, 19 it would make your lives a whole lot easier, and it would 20 make the taxpayers feel -- in the county, a whole lot safer 21 than when they just find out that the city is giving you a 22 $139 choker, and you got to come up with the bucks and you 23 got to turn to your -- you know, your citizens and say, "Hey, 24 we don't have the money, so we're going to have to raise the 25 taxes." That's not the right answer today. Your taxpayers 9-21-10 92 1 are getting too smart for that, so something is going to have 2 to give. I agree with the animal control. I was not aware 3 of that. You'd be foolish to try to do it on body count of 4 number of animals handled and all that nonsense, but it is -- 5 does make sense that we need to get at least our cost of 6 business out of it. And -- and the same way we need higher 7 justification for other activities that we do, like the 8 library. I think it's a super idea. It works in other areas 9 I've lived in, and I commend you for bringing that issue up. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hyde? 12 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not Ms. Hyde. Ms. -- 14 MS. HYDE: Ms. Hargis? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Hargis. (Laughter.) 16 You two run together like Bobbsey twins out there. 17 MS. HYDE: Isn't that special? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Current budget -- current 19 Kerr County budget is 18 million, 124; is that correct? 20 MS. HARGIS: That's the general fund. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. And the amount of 22 the budget -- the budget total that was reflected in the 23 budget that the Judge posted is -- or was -- is -- 24 MS. HARGIS: It was around 18,9. We've reduced 25 that by over a million dollars. We've actually reduced the 9-21-10 93 1 current budget from less than last year's budget, and we are 2 actually budgeting close to what we actually spent in 2008. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the Administration 4 Recommended, based on this sheet that you prepared for us, as 5 we sit here today trying to figure out how to cut more out of 6 it, is 17 million, 892; is that correct? 7 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. That's for the 8 general fund. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Reflecting a 10 significant reduction from what was posted and against the 11 current budget, all right? Am I right? 12 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't voted, have we? 15 MS. HARGIS: No. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Not on that, no. Any other question 17 or discussion on the motion that's pending? The amended 18 motion, I believe. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What in the world is the 20 motion? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: The amended motion is to take 22 $100,000 that's currently in the budget -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's allocated to the EMS 25 contract, move it to contingency for the purpose of -- of 9-21-10 94 1 ensuing negotiations with the City with regard to the EMS 2 service for the coming year. Did I correctly state that 3 motion? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to vote with -- 6 for it. I don't see what that does exactly. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't change our budget. It 8 just changes -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and it gives -- we can 10 purchase some boxing gloves and go over to the city. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or something like that, 13 maybe. But whatever, okay. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could be baseball bats. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Baseball bats. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Longer-range tool. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 18 the amended motion? All in favor of the amended motion, 19 signify by raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay, we got 24 that one put to bed. Next? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion we reduce 9-21-10 95 1 Commissioners Court salary 2.5 percent. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 4 reduction of Commissioners Court salaries 2.5 percent. 5 Question or discussion on that motion? All in favor of the 6 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Anything 11 else, gentlemen? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'll welcome any other 13 elected officials that choose to do that as well. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Voluntarily do the same? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Voluntarily do it. 16 MR. HENNEKE: I'll join with the reduction. 17 MS. BOLIN: Me too. 18 MR. TROLINGER: I'm in. 19 (Ms. Williams raised her hand.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those who are voluntarily -- 21 MS. HYDE: I just lost it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, those that voluntarily 23 want to do it to get with the Auditor and -- and H.R. And we 24 appreciate it. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 9-21-10 96 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I guess my last thing is 2 attrition. Is there a way to incorporate attrition -- 3 additional attrition into the budget? Or is that an unwise 4 thing to do? I'm not sure. We have -- certainly, a few 5 positions are out. I guess the -- we do know that Rusty's 6 giving up a part-time starting October 1, and then there's a 7 -- January 1, there's a position -- a spot coming open. I 8 don't know if we just budget four months for that position, 9 or -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This part-time thing can 11 happen October 1. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct, yeah, October 1. And 13 then the -- the other spot, I don't know if it comes -- you 14 know, if we come up with an attrition number, or if we budget 15 three months salary. I'm not sure I'm right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where's Rusty? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know the proper way to 18 do that, but it should be reflected in the budget. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing, I have to 20 figure out exactly what that salary is, because I'm actually 21 doing away with an investigator position and moving that 22 investigator back onto patrol, 'cause I don't want to give up 23 a patrol position. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You just need to figure out 25 what the salary would be for that length of time. 9-21-10 97 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Eva and I can get together and 2 figure that out. I don't, you know, have a problem with -- 3 with a reduction; I just don't know how to figure it right at 4 this point, and I couldn't tell you what kind of cost savings 5 that would be. 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Eva can handle that, I 7 believe. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It would be an investigator 9 position for, you know, at least eight months or whatever it 10 is throughout the year, which is going to be close to the 11 40,000. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and I don't know if 14 there's any other -- if it's wise to budget any additional 15 attrition beyond that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't we do it through a 17 stated policy, or be the policy of Commissioners Court to do 18 thus-and-so? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have the policy in 20 place, and we have the commitment from other elected 21 officials that have made it. But the problem comes in, is 22 there a way to reduce the dollars in the budget, which gets 23 us to hopefully getting, certainly, closer to a no tax 24 increase. 'Cause that's where I'm -- and I don't know if 25 there's a way to do that that's real. 9-21-10 98 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. How -- 2 how is the attrition program going to work? I mean, how do 3 you see -- how do y'all see that happening? Are you planning 4 on nine people retiring by March the 1st? Or are you 5 planning on -- I mean, what -- what's in your mind about 6 that? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see how that works. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Coming in -- well, that's why 10 it's hard to budget. I think there -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In any given year, for any 13 given reason, employees leave Kerr County. I mean, someone's 14 going to -- we're going to probably have 12 or 13 employees 15 that leave for who knows what reason. Now, we know it 16 probably is going to happen, but how do you budget for it, is 17 my question. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you take "X," 19 whatever the -- the employee cost is times "X." I think the 20 way you get there, personally, is that you leave it in the 21 hands of the Human Resources Department and the various 22 department heads and elected officials who have a handle on 23 and have a pretty good sense of what kind of attrition can 24 take place and where it is, who might be eligible for 25 retirement, who's considering retirement, the whole bit. 9-21-10 99 1 Those folks have that information at hand already. We don't. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I agree with what 3 you're saying. I'm trying to figure out how we come up with 4 a number. 5 MS. HYDE: You can't. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "X" times whatever an 7 employee cost is. 8 MS. HYDE: We can't -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many of those can you 10 actually take out of the budget? 11 MS. HARGIS: You can't. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where do you it take it out? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where do you take it out? 14 That's the question. 15 MS. HARGIS: You can't arbitrarily take a number 16 out that you can't reach. You know, I can't put a number in 17 there that's not attainable. It's -- you know, right now 18 that would help to -- I think those particular instances 19 would help to bring up our fund balance, but it's not 20 something I can depend on. It's not something I can take to 21 the bank, and so, therefore, it's not something I can put in 22 the budget. I think it's a policy to help us get there, 23 rather than start actually cutting the budget. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know -- do we know of 25 anybody planning on leaving? 9-21-10 100 1 MS. HARGIS: I don't have access to any of those 2 records. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you ask her? She's 4 sitting right next to you. (Laughter.) 5 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry, I was figuring the 2.5 6 decrease. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we -- do we know of any 8 person or persons that's planning on leaving our employment 9 in the next four, five, six months? 10 MS. HYDE: If you promise you won't get upset with 11 me, I've heard about 300 employees that say they're leaving; 12 that unemployment is looking very good for two years. That 13 they could watch Oprah and eat popcorn and sit on their butts 14 and get the insurance for 35 percent. And I'm not trying to 15 be smart. I'm just being honest; that's what I've been 16 hearing. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About 300 of them? 18 MS. HYDE: During break. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 300 of them leaving? 20 MS. HYDE: Well, that's all of them, off and on. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know of any that's 22 leaving -- 23 MS. HYDE: But, 29, to answer specifically. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish my question. 25 MS. HYDE: To answer specifically, we have 29 9-21-10 101 1 individuals that are hourly employees that can retire today. 2 We have 12 elected officials that can retire today. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'm one of those 4 that's eligible. I'm not leaving today. 5 MS. HYDE: There you go. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I mean, I'm trying to 7 figure out, how do we see -- he's finally on the trail here, 8 the right trail of figuring out how to budget and not budget 9 for the thing. And how do you do it? I mean, what's -- get 10 rid of that rabbit. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So what's the goal? How 13 many are planning on leaving? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would like to have a 15 reduction of a total of 10 to 12 employees. I think that has 16 a significant impact on our budget for next year. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's always said that. Now, 18 where are 10 employees going to come from? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got 3.5 -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- done, so we're down to -- 22 you know. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know of 7.6 employees 24 that are going to leave in the next six months? 25 MS. HYDE: If you're asking me can I name them, no, 9-21-10 102 1 sir, absolutely not. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just don't know how 3 you're going to do -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that's the answer. 5 We can't get -- if we can get there, it will help us next 6 year significantly, but if we can't, unless we're going to -- 7 we can't put it in the budget unless we quantify it. We 8 can't quantify it at this time. My last -- I said that was 9 my last, but then I realized I forgot one. Health insurance. 10 We have had some specific recommendations from the H.R. 11 department. I don't think we've actually decided on some of 12 them. One of them is retirees. If we do not allow dependent 13 coverage for the retirees, so retirees only are eligible for 14 their coverage, I think that has a financial impact to us. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Talking about as a matter of policy? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a policy change. Policy 17 change. Also, our -- the HRA cards we have -- we have talked 18 about, but I don't believe it's actually in the -- in our 19 numbers right now, that -- to use it for the deductible only, 20 no other -- does that make sense? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Surely that made it in. 22 MS. HYDE: It's in there. The problem is, like we 23 talked about before, gentlemen, we've turned in an RFP for -- 24 a request for proposal, and we based it off of our current 25 year coverage. And, remember, Gary got up here and said that 9-21-10 103 1 we can look at changing the plan once we get a base cost in 2 here from the people that are going to bid on us. So, the 3 policy change on the retirees, I believe you're talking 4 about, is what we discussed. As of 1/1/2011, we offer 5 retiree coverage only. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 7 MS. HYDE: No dependent coverage whatsoever with 8 the retiree. The HRA cards would be removed from the 9 retirees. Y'all changed your mind last year and did not 10 remove the HRA's last year. So, there's the two things that 11 would impact retirees 1/1/11 going forward. The ones we have 12 currently would be grandfathered. You can't change that; 13 they would have to be grandfathered. The HRA cards, 14 deductible only. When we get the RFP's in and we see what 15 our base costs are, then remember, these are the wiggle room 16 that y'all can determine once we get those bids in, and it 17 might give us a little bit of room. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's two more weeks. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, at least two, maybe 20 three. 21 MS. HYDE: October 14th is when the bids will be 22 presented to y'all for opening. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, we've talked about 24 this; I guess it goes in the same category. These are 25 changes that we can make in our plan, and it's a little bit 9-21-10 104 1 dependent on the RFP, but changes in our prescription drug 2 policy. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And our emergency room visit 5 policy. And I think that, you know, it's hard to, again, put 6 that into -- I don't know if all those are -- I would like to 7 see all of those assumed in the numbers that we have in the 8 budget for health insurance. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I think -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Implement those. I just want 11 to make sure those are in there. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue of whether or not 13 we offer coverage to retiree dependents can be a matter of 14 policy. All these others that you're talking about deal with 15 the plan itself. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, that could 18 conceivably be part of the plan itself also. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We really can't change that 22 right now. We kind of have to wait and do it -- 23 JUDGE TINLEY: It's a good thing to bring it up so 24 we're aware of it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't change it, but we've 9-21-10 105 1 made an estimate in the number that's plugged in for our 2 health insurance. I want to make sure that these changes are 3 plugged into the estimate. 4 MS. HYDE: That's the 150,000 that I told you we'd 5 come off with. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's included, okay. So, 7 they're in there. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the reduction that she gave 9 us. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Two sections ago, I believe, wasn't 12 it? 13 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MS. HYDE: So that way, that answers you, right? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All it affects is that one number 17 that we got in the budget. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else we got, gentlemen? 20 Golly Moses. Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a new number? 22 MS. HARGIS: Well, this -- let's start. And I -- I 23 think that the taxpayers need to understand, this is not just 24 a matter of reducing expenses. This is a -- a matter of our 25 revenue has gone down for two years, and our cash in the bank 9-21-10 106 1 has been substantially reduced to where we cannot operate. 2 This is not just a matter of reducing expenses, which we have 3 done and we're continuing to do. The problem we have is our 4 cash has fallen. We -- we can't set the revenue fines and 5 fees; they are what they are. They are what they come in 6 from the courts. The sales tax revenue has dropped because 7 of the economic times. We've lost 315,000, and that 8 continues to go down. The revenue we receive from fines and 9 fees, between this year and last year, are close to a million 10 and a half. Between that and the loss of the tax revenue 11 from the freeze has caused us to have a reduction. The other 12 problem with the economic is that our -- our appraised values 13 are level. I mean, we got a little tiny bit of new property 14 this year, but it wasn't enough to really bump us up at all. 15 So, our tax revenue, even if we have the freeze, our values 16 have stayed static for the last three years, so we're not 17 really seeing much difference in the revenue that's coming 18 in. 19 AUDIENCE: Mine hasn't. 20 AUDIENCE: Mine hasn't. 21 AUDIENCE: Mine went up about 200 percent. 22 MS. HARGIS: What we get is the overall, and the 23 total has gone down, okay? I can't -- I can't deal with you 24 individually, but when they come in to us as a whole, that's 25 what I have to budget off of. And I don't budget off yours 9-21-10 107 1 individually; I budget off of the whole, and the whole has 2 gone down. Part of it is because of the freeze. Your 3 appraisals, if you're in the freeze, you're frozen at the tax 4 value -- at the tax bill that you had the year you turned 65. 5 Your taxes will never go up from there. If we go down or any 6 taxing entity goes down, your taxes will go down, but you're 7 frozen. 8 AUDIENCE: But my valuation -- 9 MS. HARGIS: Your valuation has gone up, but you -- 10 unless you are -- if you're frozen, it doesn't matter. 11 AUDIENCE: I understand that, but it's -- when you 12 say the valuations have not gone up, that's not true. 13 MS. HARGIS: But -- may not be in your particular 14 case, but it's not showing up in our overall roll. 15 AUDIENCE: Right, okay. 16 MS. HARGIS: Okay? I get a number, and I have to 17 base mine on that number. What happens is that maybe 18 somebody in the other part of the county protests, and they 19 win and you didn't, and so yours is up and theirs is down. 20 Mine went up, but -- but over in my part of the county, all 21 of our values went up. That's where most of the protests 22 were this year. But my taxes went up, 'cause we're not over 23 65 yet. But if you're over 65, the tax that you have the 24 year you become 65 is frozen. Now, your values continue to 25 go up, and they show us your values at over 65, but it 9-21-10 108 1 doesn't change the amount of tax that you pay. 2 AUDIENCE: I understand that. 3 MS. HARGIS: The other people who are paying taxes, 4 that amount has not changed. Our Tax Assessor sitting right 5 here, she can agree with me. The tax that I have right now 6 is two billion, eight. For over 65, it's a billion, six. 7 So, one-third of my tax roll is over 65. I can't tax on 8 that. I see the number, but I can't do anything with it. 9 The Appraisal District actually gives me the amount of taxes 10 that I will get. That's it, and it's based on those years. 11 And the longer we go out, the more that goes down. The 12 people who originally got it in '05 are locked in at '05-'06, 13 '07-'08, so I can't figure that. The Appraisal District 14 literally has to give us that amount, because everybody's on 15 a different time frame, and I don't think a lot of people 16 realize that. 17 When I did my slide show presentation, a lot of you 18 were not here. We have lost $5 million in tax value in five 19 years. That 5 million is what is causing us to not stay 20 level. We are keeping our expenses down. They went down the 21 first year that I've been here; they've continued to go down. 22 Not only do we -- are we budgeting less, we're spending less. 23 We're geared to spend, hopefully, a million, three less this 24 year than we did last year. Unfortunately, we've lost a 25 million, five in revenue, so we're still in the hole. So, 9-21-10 109 1 it's not something that I wanted to bring up, but I can't 2 stand here as a fiduciary and not tell you there's not enough 3 cash in the bank, 'cause you got to pay the bills. I got to 4 pay salaries. I don't have the money to do that any more, 5 guys. And I don't have the right, by the State Legislature, 6 to raise these fines and fees any more. And even when you 7 do, it's a dollar here or a dollar there. 8 We are doing 14 different taxing entities to bring 9 in money to Kerr County. She's done that with her staff. 10 That's bringing in a lot of money to us to offset our tax 11 rate. She does the schools; she does a lot of the different 12 entities. She does the city of Kerrville. The city of 13 Kerrville pays us. That offsets -- helps us offset our tax 14 rate. But it's come to the point where I've moved money 15 around in different fund balances. I don't have any place 16 else to move it. One of the biggest places that we've stolen 17 is the indigent health care. We had a balance in there when 18 I got here of a million, five. We now have $400,000. Next 19 year we'll have 134. I can't pay the bills. So, it's not 20 just that our expenses have gone down. It's there's no cash. 21 And the reason is you build your reserve off of your revenue, 22 and when your revenue is lower than your expenses, and even 23 when you lower your expenses lower than that, there's no 24 surplus to go in the bank. 25 So, it's not a matter of expenses; it's a matter of 9-21-10 110 1 cash. And I've done everything I can to make that cash work, 2 and I can't seem to get everybody to understand. It's not 3 our expenses. It's the cash in the bank. We don't get a lot 4 of money between October, November, and December, and I've 5 got to pay bills. I got to pay the light bill. I got to pay 6 the water bill. I got to keep the doors open, and I don't 7 have the money. So, it's not like I want to come up here and 8 ask for a tax rate increase. 'Cause I tell you what, I've 9 probably spent more nights not sleeping the last three months 10 than anybody here. And I turned down -- and I should have 11 gotten an increase for taking on different responsibilities, 12 another D.A. and the airport, but I declined that, and then 13 they still want to cut my salary. By the way, I have three 14 people; I have a really big staff. 15 So, it's not a matter of expenses. It's a matter 16 of we've lost our cash reserve because of the freeze. They 17 don't have the freeze in Gillespie County. They had 4.2 18 million in the bank to put for their tax reserve. We don't 19 have that. Because they levy the effective tax rate every 20 year. They kind of don't tell their people that, but when 21 you levy the effective rate, you're really going up. This 22 Court has never done that. So, they have been building all 23 this time. Now, if they'd done that, I'd have been a lot 24 better off, but they didn't do that. When the tax freeze 25 went into effect, we needed to have a 10-year program to ease 9-21-10 111 1 up to where we can level -- to stay level, and we didn't. 2 Your employees were on CHIPS, food stamps, and everything 3 else three years ago. 4 I think some of you would be appalled at what some 5 of these people make. They don't make great salaries. We 6 looked at some of them; they take $600 every two weeks home, 7 as a single parent with two kids. I'm on the day care for 8 Zion Lutheran Children's Center; I'm one of the board 9 members. It costs $400 for each kid in the day care. That's 10 the cheapest we got. That leaves them with $800 to pay 11 groceries and pay rent. So, we don't pay them a lot. None 12 of us make that much, so it's not like we pay a whole lot. 13 But I'm going to have to recommend a tax increase, because I 14 have to have money to pay the bills. So, get ready to throw 15 darts at me, because that's what it's going to be. 16 MS. PIEPER: Way to go, Jeannie. 17 (Applause.) 18 MS. HARGIS: The first page that you have is the 19 cash account for the general fund. As of today -- as of 20 yesterday, we had approximately $2,169,826 in the bank. We 21 still have one payroll for this year, for this last half of 22 the year. And we have bills. I'm estimating that those 23 might be around $449,202, which will leave us a cash balance 24 in the bank going forward of a million, seven for October 1. 25 I have currently -- the second page that you have that has 9-21-10 112 1 the line that has the "444" on it, at the top it says Page 2 114. With a penny and a half, it shows we have $444,142. 3 That doesn't reflect a few of the small changes that we made 4 today, which were not going to be a substantial hit. Which I 5 appreciate everything everyone's done today, but that's not 6 going to be a large increase over what we have. Our revenues 7 are still continuing to decrease. I don't see any upward 8 turn. Our sales tax went up for one month out of this year, 9 but this last month it went down $2,000. You have in front 10 of you different scenarios. I will work and we will budget 11 and try to make with whatever the Court decides to do. The 12 first one is a penny and a half, which, with my beginning 13 balance of 2 million, which I doubt very seriously if I'm 14 going to have that, would leave me a balance of two million, 15 four at the end of the year, or at 13.9 percent of a reserve. 16 The second one is a 1.75; I'm at 14.3. The third one is two 17 cents; I'm at 14.7. The next one is a penny and a half, 18 which -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Two and a half. 20 MS. HARGIS: Two and a half, which puts me at 15. 21 Which is kind of where we were with a penny and a half, but 22 after we put in, took out, put in, took out, and actually now 23 truly have all the salaries in place, all the health 24 insurance in place. That's -- you know, that's why we're at 25 the 444 with the penny and a half. And the last one is the 9-21-10 113 1 three cents, which is where I started -- actually, I started 2 with the five cents. Again, this is not my decision. All I 3 can do is bring you the facts. I'm a pretty black-and-white 4 person. I have "X" amount of dollars, I have "X" amount of 5 bills. And when I run out, the only option that we have is 6 to go to a local bank to borrow money. We cannot get a tax 7 anticipation note in a sufficient amount of time to cover the 8 shortage that we would have. A tax anticipation note must be 9 approved by the A.G.'s office, and that's a six-week process. 10 So, the local banks are limited as to what they can give us 11 because of their size. So, you know, they -- and most likely 12 we would have to pay this back as soon as possible. 13 Hopefully, we will decide on what we need to do so 14 we can get our tax bills out in a timely manner. That also 15 affects the way that -- that we operate. We do get some 16 money in October, very limited amount of money in October, 17 but in November we should get enough money to be able to make 18 it through the month. I -- you know, I wish that I had a 19 better picture. For four years, we've been kind of moving 20 money around, but there's a couple other things that bother 21 me greatly, one of which is that our appraiser -- our Chief 22 Appraiser is telling us that based on the current market 23 values of some of the homes in the last six months, that most 24 likely our appraisals will go down next year. Not 25 everywhere. Not -- I can't guarantee these folks out there 9-21-10 114 1 what's going to happen to them individually, but overall, 2 he's going to have to take that market value into 3 consideration and start lowering values, and that's going to 4 decrease the amount of tax revenue that we would receive in 5 the next year. 6 So, I think all the things that we've done will 7 work to help us. If the Court wants to stay at this level, 8 you know, I will do the best I can to make it work, but 9 it's -- it's not an easy decision for any of us. I don't 10 want to pay more taxes either, but I certainly don't want to 11 close the doors. And, you know, that's the other alternative 12 that I have as the Auditor. If there's not enough money, 13 then I have to close the doors. The Court -- you know, 14 that's in my statute. And I don't think any of these folks 15 would like to see me close the door, 'cause they probably 16 want to see me shafted out. But if we can't pay them, then 17 that's what I have to do. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Quinn? 19 MR. QUINN: One thing I will remind my employees, 20 there's a finite amount that taxpayers have to pay also. And 21 I'm sorry that the freeze is causing the problems. I assume 22 a majority of the voters that voted on it approved it, or it 23 wouldn't be in place. But we who are paying the taxes have a 24 finite amount also, and if you see people who can afford to 25 leave Kerr County, California has that going on out there. 9-21-10 115 1 It has a net decrease of people going out there, 'cause 2 they're overtaxed. Same thing can happen here. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Truitt has a -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? Mr. Truitt? 5 MR. TRUITT: Real quick question, if you would, 6 please, Judge. What is our collection rate on the taxes that 7 are -- what percentage of collection rate do we have in this 8 county? 9 MS. HARGIS: About 99 percent. 10 MR. TRUITT: That's -- that is outstanding. 11 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 12 MR. TRUITT: That's incredibly good. And the other 13 question that goes with that, has the software problem 14 between the Appraisal District and the -- and the Tax 15 Collector been solved? 16 MS. HARGIS: Yes, it has. 17 MR. TRUITT: So we're not having the problems -- 18 MS. HARGIS: No. 19 MR. TRUITT: -- that we were having? 20 MS. HARGIS: No. We got our bills out on time last 21 year, and that was one of the things that helped last year 22 when we got our bills out on time. They changed their 23 software and fixed it, and we made our -- had our software 24 people work with theirs, and it was seamless last year. So, 25 we hope that we have that again this year. That's the reason 9-21-10 116 1 why it's indicative that once -- you know, I started this 2 process in June so that we could get through, because the 3 sooner we get through, the sooner she can get to the printer. 4 Then we can get these out. Right now she can't go to the 5 printer. She can't even do the statement, because we're 6 holding the -- and they can't close their budget, because 7 we're holding everybody up this year. 8 MR. TRUITT: Do we have a significant amount of 9 money that's owed prior to one year? 10 MS. HARGIS: No. No. We have -- we have 11 delinquent fines and fees that are substantial, but most of 12 those folks are in the penitentiary, and so it's kind of hard 13 to collect that. But as far as tax revenues -- 14 MR. TRUITT: Rusty's got some room. We'll bring 15 them back and put them all on work detail. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That costs us money. (Laughter.) 17 MR. TRUITT: Not if you go pick them up, Judge. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: They have to feed them. 19 MS. HARGIS: But, no, we have -- our delinquency is 20 very low, because generally speaking, we -- we collect 21 between 99 and 101 percent. I mean, I was amazed. When I 22 was in the Houston area, I did 50 different entities, and I 23 had the realm. I had Fort Bend, Harris County, Walker 24 County, five counties. I still have hair. And -- 25 MR. TRUITT: You still have hair? 9-21-10 117 1 MS. HARGIS: Thinner and grayer, but it's colored. 2 MR. TRUITT: Look what mine is, being a fraud 3 examiner. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to make a comment on 5 the Appraisal District. This may -- it will cut both ways. 6 One of the things I would like to get with the Chief 7 Appraiser with is to really look at appraisals. There are 8 some people that may be paying too much, but there are others 9 that I think that are maybe getting ag exemptions that 10 shouldn't. I think that we need to look at -- I know some of 11 the counties around us have really tightened up that policy. 12 Kendall County did. They don't grant ag very easily in 13 Kendall County any more, unless you're -- if you're truly ag, 14 you're ag. But there's -- Cordillera Ranch was a big case 15 they had. Cordillera was denied exemption. They won; they 16 went to court over it. Cordillera is similar to some of our 17 other developments in the -- like, similar to Falling Water, 18 really, or The Reserve. And I think that having our -- you 19 know, encouraging our Appraisal District to really be 20 aggressive on what gets the exemptions, and making sure the 21 values are correct and making sure properties are properly 22 assessed needs to be done. 23 MS. HARGIS: I think you'd be pretty amazed at what 24 our actual exemptions are, and what -- really how our roll 25 starts as a pretty good number, and then it just -- by the 9-21-10 118 1 end of the day, it slips. 2 MR. TRUITT: What -- by state law, the county 3 cannot issue building permits. Isn't that correct? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct. 6 MR. TRUITT: Some years ago, I became aware of the 7 fact that we were also not checking with KPUB and the Bandera 8 Electric Co-op and the folks out of Fredericksburg on 9 electrical connections in this -- in this county to monitor 10 new home construction. That is available to us to do that as 11 a way of really finding out, are we effectively taxing all of 12 the structures on these properties? And the only way to do 13 that at that time was through electrical connections, since 14 we don't have building -- is that being done now? 15 JUDGE TINLEY: We've got two ways of monitoring 16 that. One is, number one, the -- the electrical service 17 providers are required, if my understanding is correct, by 18 law to notify us of new connections. Number two, if they're 19 going to have a wastewater system, that comes through our 20 Environmental Health department, so we have that option 21 available to us also. 22 MR. TRUITT: So, the law has been passed where 23 you -- because when I was involved in this 20 years ago here, 24 it was not, and there was no communications between the local 25 -- particularly KPUB. They were not reporting to the County 9-21-10 119 1 Judge that was in -- in your chair at that time. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: We get -- we get routine reports 3 from electrical service providers about new connections out 4 in the county. 5 MS. HARGIS: That's, again, an Appraisal District 6 deal, that the Appraisal District needs to be sure they get 7 that data, 'cause we don't put the new houses on the roll. 8 They do. 9 MR. TRUITT: I'm aware of that. There was -- at 10 that time I was involved in trying to see what was going on, 11 and that was not being done, and there was structures being 12 built out there that had electrical connections, and no one 13 knew that they were on the tax rolls. And the other 14 question, do we also use Google Earth to -- 15 MS. HARGIS: They do an aerial as well. They do an 16 aerial, and they use Google, and also the City gives -- 17 provides the water rolls and the changes in that every year 18 to the Appraisal District. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Drake, you had something you 20 wish to offer? 21 MR. DRAKE: Brief comment, please. I wanted to 22 thank this lady for a comprehensive and very comprehendable 23 presentation. 24 MR. TRUITT: She did a very nice job. 25 MR. DRAKE: I would comment on the fact that the 9-21-10 120 1 sales tax revenues are dropping, and at the same time, the 2 Court is considering an increase in property tax. Many 3 people in this county live on a fixed income. Money that you 4 take out of their pockets for property taxes is money that 5 they will not have to spend to generate sales tax. So, there 6 is a relationship there. And the final comment is, I run two 7 businesses in my life. When revenues start dropping in a 8 business, you start by cutting costs. You look at whether 9 all the employees you have are performing essential tasks. 10 You look at whether you can raise your prices or not. And if 11 none of those things work out, you shrink your business and 12 try to ride it out. Every employee in every business and in 13 every public enterprise considers themselves to be absolutely 14 valuable, and can go on at great length to justify their 15 salary; however, when push comes to shove in private 16 business, you cannot reach out and take money out of your 17 customer's pockets to keep going, which is exactly what you 18 are proposing to do today. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have that first option of 20 increasing our prices, or -- 21 MR. DRAKE: No, you don't, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For service. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: The point -- the point of 24 Ms. Hargis' comment was what the real problem we have here is 25 our cash reserves. Now, the Comptroller of Public Accounts 9-21-10 121 1 has recommended to counties that they maintain a reserve of 2 25 percent. 25 percent. This Court has formally adopted a 3 policy that Kerr County have that same policy, 25 percent. 4 Our current reserves are approximately 10.5 percent. So, the 5 need for the increase in revenue for the very most part is to 6 increase those reserves. And by the models presented by the 7 Auditor, a three-cent tax increase would only increase those 8 reserves to 16.3, so we're still a long ways away from our 9 prior adopted policy and the Comptroller's recommendation. 10 We don't have the cash flow that you customarily see with 11 municipalities where they have water and sewer revenues and 12 things of that nature. We don't have that cash flow. Our 13 primary cash flow is our ad valorem property taxes. Those 14 property taxes do not become due -- or delinquent until 15 February 1st of the year following when they're due. Ergo, a 16 lot of them are not paid until the latter part of January of 17 the following year. Some are paid in December for people 18 that want to take their tax deduction for federal income tax 19 purposes, and that's very often the very last day or two of 20 the calendar year, so you don't really see that money until 21 January. Essentially, what that does, that leaves with you 22 three months, or one-fourth of your year, that your cash flow 23 is severely strained. So, it's not hard to figure out why 24 the Comptroller's recommended a 25 percent reserve. It is a 25 real balancing act trying to keep, as Ms. Hargis says, the 9-21-10 122 1 bills paid and the doors open during that three-month period. 2 That's the critical period of time. That's what she's 3 sweating right now. That's what this is really all about. 4 That was the reason for her explanation to you. Anything 5 else, gentlemen? Appreciate your participation. We're 6 adjourned -- excuse me. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whoa. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. Hold it, let me 9 retract that. We got a couple items that are still on the 10 agenda. Let me get to them. Item 2 on the agenda; consider 11 discuss, and take appropriate action on whether to include 12 non-Kerr County employees in the Kerr County immunization 13 program, and if so, at what cost, if any. Ms. Hyde? 14 MS. HYDE: I brought this back. We have always 15 allowed the non-official Kerr County employees, though they 16 are part Kerr County employees, to participate in 17 immunizations. However, with the Court being as it has been 18 this year regarding employees versus non-employees, I just 19 need to know, are they included? Are they not included? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it cost the county? 21 MS. HYDE: The flu shot is going to be 20 bucks. 22 I'm not giving them. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you talking about? 24 How many people are we talking about? 25 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? 9-21-10 123 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many people are we 2 talking about? 3 MS. HYDE: You got between 12 and 18 people, the 4 same ones that we've always done. Adult Probation always 5 pays. I charge them; they pay us. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we offer 7 immunization at our cost to the non-county employees. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 10 indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 11 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me first inquire, gentlemen, if 16 there's anything further with respect to the workshop. 17 Hearing nothing, we will -- 18 MS. HARGIS: I need some kind of a decision as to 19 where we're going to go to have a budget in front of you. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: I think you've got it for the 21 budget. 22 MS. HARGIS: No. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't have any other 24 answers till Monday. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to -- 9-21-10 124 1 MS. HARGIS: Monday? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The changes we did are what's 3 in the budget, I think, and I think there's a pretty good 4 consensus on the budget. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 6 MS. HARGIS: Okay. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on the 8 workshop? The workshop will be adjourned. Okay. Now we'll 9 go to -- we've got an addendum dealing with Item 4, to 10 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to adopt a 11 resolution authorizing the redemption of certain outstanding 12 Lake Ingram Estates Road District unlimited tax road bonds, 13 Series 2001. Ms. Hargis? 14 MS. HARGIS: All right. As you may be aware, the 15 Lake Ingram Estates Road District is its own taxing entity, 16 and one of the residents of that area reviewed their overall 17 payout schedule, and it was a 20-year program, and he decided 18 that perhaps they could refund these and be able to pay them 19 off in a shorter period of time. Our financial advisers have 20 not been able to sell the issue, because it's small, as of 21 yet. So, what they've requested is that we approve the 22 redemption of the bond so that -- and we will set a tax rate 23 in accordance with a 10-year program, which is what the 24 residents of Lake Ingram Estates have agreed to, so that if 25 we can sell it, as soon as they can sell it, they will redeem 9-21-10 125 1 the bonds. And -- and in order to be able to do that -- in 2 order to be able to redeem them, or even to levy an 3 additional tax, we have to have this particular motion on the 4 table. So, it's -- it's one of those things where we've been 5 trying to sell it and get a consensus of the residents, and 6 the residents agree that they want to do a 10-year program, 7 which will increase their taxes by 10 cents, but they will 8 save, I think, a considerable amount of money over the life 9 of their -- of their issue. And -- 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, where -- do we need a 11 motion? We've heard all this before. 12 MS. HARGIS: Right. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We need to adopt the resolution 14 authorizing the redemption of those outstanding -- 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We've heard this twice now. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? All in 21 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Gentlemen, 9-21-10 126 1 the remaining item that we have on today's agenda is an 2 executive session, I thought. That's part of the budget. 3 You can set it for informational purposes, but it's nothing 4 we can vote on today. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the public, Judge, on 6 Monday is the date we will set the tax rate and vote on the 7 tax rate, correct? 8 JUDGE TINLEY: We will do two things. We'll adopt 9 the budget and we will set the tax rate. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On Monday. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: On Monday, that's correct. Starting 12 at 10 o'clock, there will be a series of -- of items dealing 13 with the budget and tax rates. Anything to occur -- anything 14 else that needs to occur in open or public session at this 15 time, gentlemen? At this time, 11:07, a.m., we will go out 16 of open or public session to go into executive or closed 17 session. 18 (The open session was closed at 11:07 a.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 19 is contained in a separate document.) 20 - - - - - - - - - - 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We are now in open or public 22 session, and it's 11:39. Any member of the Court have 23 anything to offer with respect to matters covered in 24 executive or closed session? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'd like to 9-21-10 127 1 reduce Precinct 4 commissioner's salary by 5 percent. 2 (Laughter.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: An additional 5 percent? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Additional 5. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion, Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Thought I'd ask. Hearing 8 nothing further, we will be adjourned. 9 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 11:40 a.m.) 10 - - - - - - - - - - 11 STATE OF TEXAS | 12 COUNTY OF KERR | 13 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 14 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 15 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 16 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 17 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 28th day of September, 18 2010. 19 20 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 21 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 22 Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 24 25 9-21-10