1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, November 15, 2010 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 24 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 2 1 I N D E X November 15, 2010 2 PAGE 3 1.1 Canvass the Official Election Results for the 2010 November General Constitutional Amendment 4 Election as per TEC §67 - 5 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding various employee health benefit issues 6 and adoption of 2011 Kerr County Employee Health Benefits Plan and/or plan amendments 3 7 --- Adjourned 42 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11-15-10A 3 1 On Monday, November 15, 2010, at 1:37 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning -- or good afternoon, 8 ladies and gentlemen. Let me call to order this special 9 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and 10 scheduled for this date and time, Monday, November 15, 2010, 11 at 1:30 p.m. It's a bit past that time now, so let's go 12 ahead and get started. Our agenda item is to consider, 13 discuss, and take appropriate action regarding various 14 employee health benefits issues and adoption of 2011 Kerr 15 County employee health benefits plan and/or plan amendments. 16 Ms. Hyde, are you going to open this thing up, or dump it 17 straight into Gary's lap? 18 MS. HYDE: I'm going to stand beside him, but to 19 the right, 'cause the Sheriff is to the left. I just need 20 y'all to remember that number, 2,153,640. That -- that is 21 our budgeted amount. The last -- six weeks? 22 MR. LOONEY: Ha. 23 MS. HYDE: Of insurance has been -- has been a 24 roller coaster, but the recommendation that we're making we 25 think is what's best for the County and what's best for the 11-15-10A 4 1 employees. And so now I'm going to give it to Gary, and he 2 can get bulletproof. 3 MR. LOONEY: Judge, Commissioners, it has been a 4 roller coaster, as you know. And we've had an extremely 5 high-loss year, which, you know, has been very, very 6 difficult to handle. But we've paid a lot of claims out to 7 employees that have been beneficial to them, and a lot of 8 claims paid to the beneficiaries -- to the dependents. So, 9 the plan is operating in the manner in which it was designed, 10 and consequently, subsequently, now we've got a new plan year 11 that we're going to have to deal with. So, what I'd like to 12 do is -- is go through the outline that I've given to you, 13 and the -- in the one that's got the Alamo on it, I'd like to 14 kind of walk through that with you. It's an outline. And 15 I'm going to try to go through each one of these items in a 16 reasonably intelligent manner so that we can -- you can see 17 how it came to -- or how we came to the conclusions that we 18 did. 19 First of all, when we started into the bid process, 20 we submitted an RFP, and one of the items in the RFP was a 21 request by bidders to equal -- duplicate the current plan 22 benefits. The reason we do that -- primary reason we do that 23 is to set a benchmark for where the benefit plan was, the 24 pricing of that, and then be able to make changes in that 25 benefit plan, or if someone were to offer us a similar 11-15-10A 5 1 pricing on the plan, then potentially move to a non-heritor. 2 This sheet that you have is a summary of those bids that we 3 got, and it does list current and does show some of the 4 current recommendations. Now, I projected, what, back in 5 June or July of last year that our price moving forward for 6 this next plan year was going to be 2.9-some million, 7 probably 2.9. Well, I was reasonably accurate, 8 unfortunately. 9 The bids for that self-funded plan, the 10 self-funding portion of it moving forward to the next year, 11 ranged from -- current plan ranged from about 2.9 to as high 12 as $4.2 million. Subsequently in that bid process, one of 13 the things that we did was look to see what additional 14 charges might be incurred as a result of our high losses. 15 So, when we go to the stop loss market, this number does not 16 include any underwriting that they have done to increase the 17 deductible we have for people that have high losses. They 18 call that -- in the insurance business, they call that 19 lasering, where they'll laser out an employee and say, well, 20 because of this person's medical history, we have to have 21 these additional funds that you will be liable for under your 22 self-insured plan. Those numbers -- those lasering numbers 23 ranged anywhere from $450,000 to $650,000 additional that the 24 County would be liable for in case of losses for those 25 individuals. We have the medical records on those 11-15-10A 6 1 individuals, and the predictive modeling from the insurance 2 company; not just one underwriter, but virtually every 3 underwriter that had that information gave us additional 4 lasering on every case. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gary, is that lasering on 6 this -- 7 MR. LOONEY: It is not included in those prices, so 8 you would have to add an additional -- depending on the stop 9 loss carrier, anywhere from $400,000 to $650,000 additional 10 to this those numbers. Subsequently, that just pretty much 11 takes our self-funded plan out of contention, based on the 12 current plan design. It also, in many cases, takes it out of 13 contention with any plan design, because the funding 14 required -- the funding necessary to meet that requirement, 15 plus the basic underlying coverage, we would virtually not be 16 able to have any contract available for benefit payment. In 17 the interim, in this process, though, we did receive a 18 fully-insured quote, and a fully-insured quote has a lot of 19 positive things for our circumstances, what we're looking at. 20 One, there's no lasering in the contract, so whatever the 21 premium is is a fixed premium. Two, the -- the large claims, 22 we have -- from the fully-insured carrier, we requested two 23 things. 24 And, Commissioner Letz, I was telling you there 25 were two things we had to have. One was a waiver of the 11-15-10A 7 1 actively-at-work clause. That means that in a lot of cases, 2 when a company takes over insurance from another company, if 3 the employee or a dependent is not in an active-at-work 4 situation, they're not at work, they don't cover them until 5 such time as they return to work. Well, in our situation, we 6 requested no gaps in coverage for anybody. We want that 7 active-at-work waived. The fully-insured company we're 8 recommending waived it so that everybody will be covered 9 moving forward. The other thing we requested was what we 10 call a "no loss, no gain" provision in the contract. That 11 simply means that if there were benefits that the individual 12 would have been paid under the other plan at the time, they 13 will not lose that particular benefit, but they also are not 14 going to gain from the benefits in the new plan. It's an 15 administrative tool to help make the claim folks easier 16 moving into the plan. They also waived that. They've also 17 said that if we complete an application for the insurance 18 within the next -- prior to December 1st, that all the rates 19 that they have given to us are guaranteed rates. There 20 may -- you know, we're depending on that. 21 The other thing is that we've got the runoff 22 expense that we got to pay from our previous -- from this 23 year, the incurred claims that we have. Now, the incurred 24 claims are going to be paid by the current third-party 25 administrator. We have a guaranteed contract with them on 11-15-10A 8 1 the payment of those claims, but we do have that runoff 2 expense or run-in expense, whatever -- however you want -- 3 the incurred claim against that we have to pay. So, when 4 we're doing our budget for the fully-insured plan, we also 5 incorporated the fact that we had to have sufficient expenses 6 in that to pay that runoff claim. So, we have the -- the way 7 the budget is set, the way we've set it, you know, the 8 insurance company -- the fully-insured side of it has given 9 us a 60-day period in which they will not charge premium next 10 year. It's not -- it's not that it's not eventually going to 11 be charged, but for cash flow purposes, they've delayed the 12 first month's premium for 60 days, which will help us on the 13 cash flow, so we've got additional funds to help pay the 14 runoff claims if we need that. The plan design, then, on the 15 fully-insured plan, we have the budget that has been given to 16 us to deal with, so we have come up with a plan design, then, 17 that would fit into the funding that we have available. 18 The plan design that we're looking at right now, 19 the one that we feel will meet the budget, is in that -- in 20 your folder, and there's two. There's one that has color, 21 and you'll see that it's the Humana Insurance Company. It 22 should be the blue -- the one that's on the blue. This is -- 23 this is the plan design that we have developed. This plan 24 design is associated with premiums that would be charged to 25 the employees. The employee premium would be zero. There's 11-15-10A 9 1 no charge to any employee for this particular plan. To have 2 a spouse covered, the premium would be $250 per month. To 3 have a child covered, or children, $250 a month. And the 4 premium for the family -- I believe we set that -- 5 MS. HYDE: $450. 6 MR. LOONEY: $450 per month. 7 MS. HYDE: Which was what we said during the budget 8 process. 9 MR. LOONEY: So the plan design -- let me just give 10 it to you. It's pretty straightforward. $3,000 deductible. 11 $3,000 deductible, $250 a month budget for an individual 12 employee. That has no premium payment. So, they -- 250 is 13 what they would have to set aside to meet their deductible on 14 an annual basis. After that deductible is satisfied, the 15 $3,000 deductible, all benefits are paid at 100 percent. 16 There's not any copayment structure. There is not any 17 prescription drug card associated with that $3,000 18 deductible. Everything applies to the deductible. The 19 expenses for the doctor, any kind of imaging, any kind of 20 hospital expense, everything applies toward that deductible, 21 except for preventive care. Preventive care is waived under 22 the plan from the deductible standpoint. So, you can see on 23 this sheet, on the very first page, that 100 percent. 24 Preventive care includes routine immunizations up to age 6, 25 routine lab tests and X rays, routine exams up to an 11-15-10A 10 1 18-year-old, mammograms, pap smears, preventive endoscopy. 2 So, the -- well, that's -- the wellness portion is not 3 applicable to the deductible, so that people can still have 4 wellness care. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gary, "routine exam" meaning an 6 annual physical? 7 MR. LOONEY: Annual physical. 8 MS. HYDE: Your PSA's, your mammograms. 9 MR. LOONEY: So, that doesn't apply. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Now, it doesn't apply 11 to the deductible, -- 12 MR. LOONEY: Doesn't apply to the deductible. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- but it is covered? 14 MR. LOONEY: It is covered. Covered at 100 15 percent. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a cap on that? 18 MR. LOONEY: No. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. LOONEY: So the $3,000 deductible is charged to 21 an employee. If they cover their dependents, one of their 22 family members, if they have the 3,000, then they're also 23 covered at 100 percent after that. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: So it's 3,000 family deductible 25 also? 11-15-10A 11 1 MR. LOONEY: No. 2 MS. HYDE: Yes. 3 MR. LOONEY: No, it's $6,000 family deductible. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $6,000? 5 MR. LOONEY: But if one -- one person exceeds 6 3,000, they're covered at 100 percent. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8 MR. LOONEY: The other person in the family has to 9 exceed 3,000 to be covered at 100 percent. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, what about family? 11 MR. LOONEY: Two maximum in the family. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, 6,000 is the maximum on 13 the family? 14 MR. LOONEY: 6,000 maximum on the family. And 15 that's -- 6,000 maximum on the family, that's budgeted for 16 $500 a month. That's the -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that can be any mix -- 18 MR. LOONEY: Any mix. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in the family? 20 MR. LOONEY: Any mix in the family, after -- but 21 the 3,000 for the individual then is covered. And it's 3,000 22 mix, right? 23 AUDIENCE: Right. 24 MR. LOONEY: Family, that's correct. So it's any 25 combination of them that go over the additional to make it 11-15-10A 12 1 6,000. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the employee has to meet 3 3,000? 4 MR. LOONEY: No. Whoever's insured. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or the insured. 6 MR. LOONEY: Insured. If a dependent reaches 7 3,000, then they're covered at 100 percent. If the 8 combination of the rest of the family gets to 3,000, -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MR. LOONEY: -- then it's 100 percent for the 11 entire family. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MR. LOONEY: And I think it's really important to 14 note that, you know, in a standard PPO plan, once you go into 15 a 100 percent area in a PPO plan, then you still have 16 copayments. You still have copayments to make, and many 17 times you still have coinsurance to pay up until you reach 18 that out-of-pocket maximum. So, in this situation, the 19 individuals are going to be paying the benefit directly to 20 the doctor. The doctor's bill charge, then, will be reduced 21 by the contractual agreement that Humana has in place, so 22 that you'll still receive the benefit of the negotiated 23 contract prices. In many cases, if you've been hospitalized 24 or whatever, you know, those can be as much as 50 or 60 25 percent discounts in those circumstances. 11-15-10A 13 1 Long-term hospital stay, virtually every hospital 2 accepts some payment basis rather than a full $3,000 up 3 front. Most every hospital will accept -- even use a credit 4 card, whatever, but most hospitals will accept a payment 5 scale of some sort to help an individual through that $3,000 6 number. Under their old plan, we had a $1,000 deductible, 7 $2,000 max out-of-pocket, or $3,000. So, we're -- what we've 8 done is we've just taken out from under that 3,000 those 9 copayments, prescription drug charges, and those elements 10 that now will be paid for at 100 percent up front. In 11 relationship to that, the employee would have no premium. 12 Dependent, $250 for the spouse, $250 for the child, $450 for 13 the family. That would be their contribution to the plan. 14 We also felt that many people like to have 15 copayments and like to have prescription, you know, drug 16 benefits. They want that budgeted. They don't want to 17 budget the other number. So, we're offering an option to 18 employees, and that's the one with the dark headline, the 19 darkened -- the black -- the black widow here. This one, 20 again, from the preventive care standpoint, no deductible 21 applies. But in this particular plan, it's an 80 percent/50 22 percent; 80 percent copayment -- coinsurance payment for 23 in-network, 50 percent out-of-network. This particular plan 24 has a $2,500 deductible, but the $2,500 deductible only 25 applies to those major incidents that you have; the hospital 11-15-10A 14 1 stays, the imaging that you have to do outside of MRI's, the 2 high-cost imaging things. Because you still have in this 3 plan a copayment for the doctor's office. 4 This plan has a $40 copayment for the doctor's 5 office for primary care physicians, and a $55 copayment for a 6 specialist. It does have a prescription drug card. The 7 prescription drug card is $10 on generic, $30 on Tier 1 8 drugs, $50 -- $55 on Tier 3 drugs, and then 25 percent of the 9 Tier 4 medications is charged -- 25 percent of whatever the 10 actual medication charge is, up to a maximum of $2,500. 11 So -- but there's a prescription card there. If they were on 12 the $3,000 plan and they went into a 100 percent area, then 13 they would have the prescription drugs covered under the 14 formulary for the prescription drug plan. Under this plan, 15 if they go into a 100 percent area, then they would have 16 additional copays on prescription drugs and doctor's office 17 visits that follow up. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: But this alternate plan carries a 19 $2,500 deductible? 20 MR. LOONEY: $2,500 deductible. It also has 21 premium required for the employee to buy up to this plan. 22 The premium for the employee would be $50. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Per month? 24 MR. LOONEY: Per month, for the employee. The -- I 25 meant to look at my note to find out what the premium is for 11-15-10A 15 1 the... Premiums for the employee and spouse would be $400. 2 For the employee and children, $350, and for the family, 3 $800. If you buy up. 4 MS. HYDE: Buy up. 5 MR. LOONEY: If you want the copayment structure 6 and the prescription drug card, then we have those additional 7 expenses. 'Cause those are a lot of first-dollar expenses. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, under the blue one, there's 9 no prescription -- 10 MR. LOONEY: The prescriptions are covered after 11 the deductible is satisfied. After the deductible is 12 satisfied, -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Needs to cover 100 percent. 14 MR. LOONEY: -- it covers at 100 percent. 15 MS. HYDE: Within the drug program. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hmm? Say that again? 17 MS. HYDE: Within the prescription drug program. 18 MR. LOONEY: Yeah. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What do you mean? Is there 20 certain ones that's not covered, or what? 21 MR. LOONEY: Laura? Any drugs that are not covered 22 under the -- 23 AUDIENCE: The ones that are not approved by the 24 F.D.A. or experimental drugs. 25 MR. LOONEY: Standard ones. 11-15-10A 16 1 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 2 MR. LOONEY: No cocaine, no -- no -- what is that 3 other medication they're selling in the stores up here that 4 I've been hearing about? K-2? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Spice. 6 MR. LOONEY: The K-2 meds. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go over again under the 8 black -- this one, the prescription drug part of that. 9 MR. LOONEY: Prescription drug part. The 10 prescriptions are $10 for generic, $30 for Tier 1 medication, 11 $55 for Tier 3 medication, and 25 percent off of the actual 12 negotiated cost of the prescription drug in Tier 4, which are 13 typically specialty medications. And the maximum of $2,500 14 out-of-pocket on the Tier 4. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on the other two, you -- 16 MR. LOONEY: Just continues. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keeps on going. This 18 doesn't -- if you meet the deductible, it doesn't make any 19 difference. 20 MR. LOONEY: Doesn't make any difference. So, you 21 know, we've -- the way the budget numbers fit, you know, 22 we've got sufficient amount of premium that we're paying to 23 the fully-insured plan to meet the requirements of the 24 fully-insured premium. We have an excess between that and 25 your budget number to offset the cost of the run-in cost. 11-15-10A 17 1 Then the other thing that we are going to have to do at this 2 point is, we're going to have to freeze the H.R.A. account 3 until such time as the cash flow flowing through the system 4 is sufficient to be able to potentially reopen that account. 5 It would be just a freeze on any payments out of that 6 account. It's going to create a situation where the 7 employees -- they're not going to like not being able to go 8 to the doctor and paying $30. They're not going to like 9 that. But at the same time, it's going to make a lot more 10 conscious effort, when dollars are being spent under that 11 $3,000 number. There may be more negotiating with the 12 physician, more negotiating other areas on expense factors. 13 And, again, it's 250 a month to budget for $3,000 a year. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Once they reach the cap, totally 15 covered, everything? 16 MR. LOONEY: Covered under the plan. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Doctor, hospital, -- 18 MR. LOONEY: Doctors, hospital. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: -- drugs. In essence, they have 20 them a $3,000 cap on their out-of-pocket medical expense for 21 the year. 22 MR. LOONEY: Right. To get -- to get to this, you 23 know, point, we've -- I can can't tell you how many plan 24 designs that we've gone through to try to get to this point. 25 But this one -- when I first presented it to Eva, I thought 11-15-10A 18 1 she was going to shoot me. And then after spending time 2 working through the process and the funding and the -- and 3 the actual cost and the relationship between the current plan 4 and this plan, it becomes -- it becomes much more equitable. 5 So, that's my recommendation, is that we move to Humana 6 fully-insured plan, using the -- what their terminology is an 7 embedded $3,000 high deductible plan, and have the buy-up 8 plan that's the 80/50 coinsurance plan. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go through this 10 spreadsheet and just explain it? 11 MR. LOONEY: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, just go through all the 13 numbers, what I'm looking at. Which one of these is the 14 Humana one? The one that says "Humana current"? 15 MR. LOONEY: Humana current? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the one? 17 MR. LOONEY: That Humana current, what that is is a 18 self-funded plan, in relationship to the current plan of 19 benefits. None of this is fully insured. This is all 20 self-funded. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None of these are -- 22 MR. LOONEY: None of these. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Partially self-funded. 24 MS. HYDE: These are the self-funded, so that y'all 25 would see what those bids were when they came in. 11-15-10A 19 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eva, this number that you 3 keep throwing out, this 2,153,640 -- 4 MS. HYDE: $2,153,640 is the County-paid portion 5 towards insurance this year. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, what is the -- 7 what is the number now? 8 MR. LOONEY: Same. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same number? 10 MR. LOONEY: Same number. That's what I worked 11 with. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why did you want me to 13 memorize that? 14 MS. HYDE: Because it's less than what we had in 15 the budget last year. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay. 17 MS. HYDE: We reduced the budget, even though we 18 knew that the cost had increased. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: The significance of the spreadsheet 21 on the self-funded plans, your -- your totals at the 22 bottom -- 23 MR. LOONEY: Do not indicate any additional -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any run-out. 25 MS. HYDE: No. 11-15-10A 20 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Which run anywhere from 400 to 650? 2 MR. LOONEY: No, doesn't include any of the lasered 3 individuals. The run-out in most of those cases is included 4 because of the 15/12 contracts. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. But the lasered, which we 6 would have to assume, estimated between 400,000 and 650,000, 7 which are added back on top? 8 MR. LOONEY: Correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's way out of the market for 10 us. 11 MR. LOONEY: That takes us way out of the budget. 12 MS. HYDE: Yeah. 13 MR. LOONEY: I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't do it. 15 MR. LOONEY: Blows the budget for us. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our budget is -- 17 MS. HYDE: $2,153,640. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's our budget number. But 19 we have how much left this year under our old plan? 20 MS. HYDE: None. We've exceeded the plan. 21 MR. LOONEY: There won't be anything left by the 22 time -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much more are we going to 24 spend? I'm looking at budget -- if we budgeted the amount of 25 this plan, how much do we have to pay yet for this year? 11-15-10A 21 1 MS. HYDE: We're estimating -- and it's an 2 estimation -- between $350,000 and $500,000. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 4 MS. HYDE: Where are we going to get the money to 5 pay for that 350,000 to 500,000? The first two months, 6 they're not going to make us pay premium. 7 MR. LOONEY: That's part of it. 8 MS. HYDE: But we're going to have to pay it. 9 Where we're going to get our money -- where we're going to 10 get our money is because of the stop loss, where we exceed 11 the stop loss. And we're hedging. 12 MR. LOONEY: We know -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Got reimbursement claims pending? 14 MS. HYDE: We have reimbursement claims pending. 15 MR. LOONEY: We've been watching that real closely. 16 We've got people at hospitals collecting bills so that we can 17 get them in and get them paid, because we know we'll be 18 reimbursed for them. 19 MS. HYDE: We've been actually calling hospitals, 20 telling them to bill us, -- 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get them in here. 22 MS. HYDE: -- you know. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you want to get paid, 24 better get them in here. 25 MR. LOONEY: Yeah, that's true. 11-15-10A 22 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- the amount that 2 we're going to get reimbursed is going to equal the amount we 3 have to keep paying? 4 MS. HYDE: It is our estimation that it will cover 5 that cost at this time. Keep in mind, Commissioner, it's 6 November 15th. We could have -- God forbid, but we could 7 have another heart. We can have another cancer. We've got 8 six weeks. 9 MR. ODOM: Be careful about the heart. 10 MS. HYDE: I heard that, Leonard. I'm being very 11 careful. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How does this, budget-wise, 13 work is that we're -- our insurance is for a 12-month period, 14 and our budget's for nine months, so we're -- 15 MS. HYDE: Makes it real fun for me and Mindy and 16 Jeannie. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But we -- our budget's 18 2.1. What's the -- is the premium exactly 2.1? 19 MR. LOONEY: No. No, it's less than that. 20 MS. HYDE: It's less. 21 MR. LOONEY: Premium actually is about 1.75. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1.75 is the cost of this? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: For the remainder of the budget 24 year. 25 MR. LOONEY: No, that's for that -- that plan year. 11-15-10A 23 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The plan for January? 2 MR. LOONEY: But we have to have a cushion to pay 3 the run-in claims. And that's what -- that's what's built in 4 there to pay the run-in claims. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this plan is actually 1.75. 6 Is that including that we're only paying nine months of it 7 during this budget year? 8 MR. LOONEY: I'm not exactly sure how y'all handle 9 that piece of it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the plan is going to go 11 three months beyond the end of -- of the budget. The 12 budget's 2.154. We're going to be in next budget year for 13 the last three months. 14 MS. HYDE: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm tying to figure out, you 17 know -- 18 MS. HYDE: On the fully-insured plan, here's the 19 good side of it. You need to think of that as an extra three 20 months that we know exactly how much we're going to spend. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 22 MS. HYDE: So let's say, for simple Texas math, the 23 premium is 200,000 a month. It'll be less than that, but 24 let's just say for simple Texas -- I can't add that fast. 25 I'm trying to keep it simple. So, say it's 200,000 a month. 11-15-10A 24 1 We know October, November, December, it's 200,000, 2 regardless. Regardless. So that puts us in a better 3 financial position during budget to look at -- we'll be able 4 to look at our claims, see what our claim trend is doing, and 5 do we want to stay fully insured, or do we want to look at 6 maybe going back to self-insured, and save our money? 7 Because what you do have to understand is, you're right. I 8 know where you're going. You need to look at a 30 percent 9 increase next year. 10 MR. LOONEY: Minimum. 11 MS. HYDE: You're absolutely right. I can see 12 those wheels turning. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But why -- I mean, why do you 14 already know it's going to be 30 percent -- 15 MS. HYDE: Because they are insurance companies, 16 and they know how much these trends are and how much these 17 claims are. So, when they bid on us, they're bidding on us 18 based on a 9- to 10-month period, not on the full 12. 19 MR. LOONEY: It's the difference between maturity 20 and immaturity. Immature claims are brand-new. 21 Fully-insured plan is almost an immature process, meaning 22 that they don't have that run-in claim that we're going to be 23 paying, that we're obligated to pay. They will then mature 24 that contract for a full 12 months at the next time. That 25 ranges anywhere from 25 to 30 percent. But we're under 11-15-10A 25 1 budget right now to pay the runoff. We'll have that 2 additional funds then to add back towards the rate increase 3 for next year. 4 MS. HYDE: Remember, we said we'd put anything that 5 we got above back into Fund 11 so that we wouldn't ever get 6 in this -- this shape again. Hopefully. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Humana plan, what -- what 8 kind -- what is the preferred provider -- what kind of list 9 do they work off of? Is it all San Antonio? 10 MS. HYDE: No, it's a good list. We learned last 11 year, after we had our -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kind of like -- 13 MS. HYDE: -- medical meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- Texas True Choice list? 15 MS. HYDE: Not Texas True Choice. 16 MR. LOONEY: It's similar. We actually looked at 17 some of the claim history, and the differential between the 18 discounts that we get from Humana and the discounts we get 19 from Texas True Choice helped us actually get a little bit 20 better discount. So, we're looking at that to help -- help 21 us on our claim experience also. But at this position -- at 22 this point, Commissioner, if we only had five doctors, I'm 23 afraid that's kind of how we'd have to -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's kind of where we're 25 going. Everybody better saddle up and make an appointment. 11-15-10A 26 1 MR. LOONEY: Unfortunately, that open -- open 2 access, open-ended market is -- is, you know, slowly -- we're 3 going to see that slowly dissipate. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can't see that it's not 5 going to dissipate. 6 MR. LOONEY: It will, by attrition of the physician 7 market itself. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Looney? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just -- I want to 11 make sure that I'm clear on this. On the -- if -- on the 12 prescription cost, it's the 250 -- it's -- like, you start 13 out for no -- no charge for -- on this sheet right here. 14 There's zero cost to the employee. 15 MR. LOONEY: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then if you add a spouse onto 17 it -- 18 MR. LOONEY: 250. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- with the prescription drug 20 plan -- 21 MR. LOONEY: No. No, you have -- you cannot buy up 22 from one piece to the other piece. The $3,000 deductible, 23 zero, 250, 250, 450. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right. 25 MR. LOONEY: Spouse and/or -- no prescriptions 11-15-10A 27 1 involved. No copayments. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 3 MR. LOONEY: If you want the prescription and the 4 copayments, you have to go to the PPO plan on the 80/50 plan. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I'm with you. That's 6 what I couldn't understand. 7 MS. HYDE: But you have an additional 8 out-of-pocket -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a hard time 10 understanding sometimes. 11 MS. HYDE: But you have an additional out-of-pocket 12 as well. You got a $2,500 deductible, and then a $2,000 13 out-of-pocket that you're buying up to, that you have the 14 card, and you only pay the copays. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'm with you. 16 MR. LOONEY: I think -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When is the freeze going to 18 take place on the H.R.A. card? 19 MS. HYDE: December 31st at midnight. 20 MR. LOONEY: Commissioner, you're not supposed to 21 announce that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll do what we have to by 23 then. 24 MS. HYDE: What we will probably do, based upon 25 y'all's recommendations and vote, would be that we'll turn 11-15-10A 28 1 the cards off, and then everything will have to be done by 2 paper. And we would probably do that November 30th, and 3 everything would have to be done by paper. 4 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 5 MR. LOONEY: Have to file a claim. The debit card 6 will be shut off. 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so we're talking about 8 not having an H.R.A. card for the -- for next year? 9 MS. HYDE: Probably not. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see how we -- 11 MS. HYDE: We'll look at it after six months. 12 We'll have to bring everything back to the Court at the end 13 of six months, 'cause then everything should be paid out. We 14 should be clean and know exactly. And I'm sure that 15 Ms. Hargis will be Johnny-on-the-spot, and so will Mindy, 16 'cause we're, like, counting pennies right now to make sure 17 we know exactly how much is there, and if we have anything. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Promotes wellness, doesn't 19 it? (Laughter.) 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Notwithstanding the fact that on the 21 base plan, that -- that there's no cash investment, as it 22 were, by the employee. The fact that you've got that first 23 $3,000 is going to have the employees very mindful of -- of 24 that being their cost, but they're protected on the larger 25 claims. They're capped at -- at 3,000 for the employee, and 11-15-10A 29 1 that's it for the year. Everything else is 100 percent 2 covered, so it's not hard to plan for that one. The other 3 advantage you got is that the wellness portion is 100 percent 4 protected for those that get the annual physical. I've had a 5 little discussion around my house lately about colonoscopies, 6 as a matter of fact. That's covered. 7 MR. LOONEY: That's a kind way of saying it, Judge. 8 (Laughter.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: These folks know what I'm talking 10 about. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that going to be done by a 12 doctor, Judge, or somebody else? 13 MR. LOONEY: Been kind of worried about that from 14 over here, as a matter of fact. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: But -- but those kind of things that 16 -- that you need for a routine basis are 100 percent covered. 17 That's the exception, and I think it's as it should be. 18 MR. LOONEY: And, again, as I said, you know, 3,000 19 sounds like a terribly high amount, but when you start 20 talking about budgeting at $250 a month -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I mean, I guess, is 22 there a way that the employees can put that 250 a month into, 23 like, a debit card out of their salary as a deduction? I 24 just see our employees -- I can see them being -- getting 25 sick, and get a $1,000 bill and really be in a bind. Because 11-15-10A 30 1 our employees, a lot of them just don't have the ability to 2 set aside $3,000, or $1,000. If we could put aside a part of 3 it as a debit card, even though they're paying it -- I don't 4 know. Is that -- or is that just an administrative nightmare 5 for us? 6 MS. HYDE: What we can do is -- we have checked on 7 this, cause this was a huge discussion. 'Cause I played the 8 employee, so Gary has been beat up a lot. We also checked 9 around here. I live here too, and so we talked to doctors. 10 We talked to the hospitals, and they'll all do payment plans. 11 They'll all do payment plans. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can attest to that. We 13 were on them for years, and as long as you pay -- I mean, you 14 can pay as little as $20, $25 a month, and just don't miss a 15 payment. There's no interest. And you just keep -- you do 16 it till you get it paid for. 17 MR. LOONEY: We met with Sid Peterson Hospital and 18 other places also, and talked to them about the payment 19 process. And, Judge, I believe your example -- 20 MS. HYDE: We worked with them. We had a lot of 21 meetings with Sid Pete, -- 22 JUDGE TINLEY: They've always been -- 23 MS. HYDE: -- ran some numbers. And who do we work 24 with? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: They've always been amenable to 11-15-10A 31 1 working with you. The key is, they want to peg it at 2 something that you can handle on a timely basis each and 3 every month. 4 MS. HYDE: Right. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: And as long as you're doing what you 6 told them that you'd do, they're just tickled pink. 7 MS. HYDE: The other part, Commissioner, is that 8 $3,000. During open enrollment, I encourage the five of 9 y'all to attend each one of those classes and help, because 10 they're going to hear the 3,000 and they're going to freak. 11 It's huge. But when you stop and breathe, they have $3,000 12 right now, so this is the closest thing that we could get to 13 similar, 'cause they're not going to like change. None of us 14 like change, myself included. But that 3,000 they are paying 15 anyway, plus their copay, after the fact. So, once you hit 16 your out-of-pocket and all, you're still hitting it. You're 17 still paying your insurance for -- or that copay for those 18 drugs, you know. So, overall, it's a little bit cheaper. 19 Just -- it's going to hit you first. 20 MR. ODOM: I have a question. I've been quiet back 21 here. 22 MS. HYDE: That's Leonard. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard? 24 MR. ODOM: All right. $3,000 -- 25 MR. LOONEY: Is he armed? (Laughter.) 11-15-10A 32 1 MS. HYDE: He's got big equipment. 2 MR. ODOM: $3,000 deduction, right? And then 3 prescription drugs. This is just copayments? Or do we pay 4 for the drugs ourselves? 5 MR. LOONEY: You pay for the drugs yourself. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Till you reach the $3,000 cap. 7 That's where you get the 3,000. 8 MR. ODOM: How do you negotiate the price? Some of 9 the prices of some of this medicine is out -- 10 MS. HYDE: They're already negotiated. 11 MR. ODOM: Huh? 12 MS. HYDE: They're already negotiated. 13 MR. LOONEY: Already negotiated. When you get a 14 little card that says "Humana" on it, they've got an ID 15 number on there, and your plan is -- is ID'd to that 16 pharmacy. 17 MR. ODOM: So we won't have DrugSource, or will we 18 still have DrugSource or Script or Express or -- 19 MR. LOONEY: You won't have any of them. 20 MS. HYDE: You'll have a place -- 21 MR. LOONEY: Go to any of the pharmacies. 22 MS. HYDE: You've still got Walmart, CVS, 23 Walgreen's. You still got your majors. 24 MR. ODOM: Costco, places like that? 25 MS. HYDE: I'm seeing -- yeah. 11-15-10A 33 1 MS. WILLIAMS: You'll still be able to do the 2 90-day, as opposed to a 30-day? 3 MS. HYDE: Mail-ins? You're going to do the 4 mail-ins just like you have. It'll be a different name. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question, Tim? 6 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Am I understanding right 7 here? Once you hit your $3,000 deductible, you pay nothing 8 else? If I go to the drug store to get $1,000 worth of 9 drugs, I pay nothing else once I hit that 3,000? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If you've paid your 3,000, that's 11 your out-of-pocket, yes, sir. 12 MR. BOLLIER: So, once I get to the doctor's 13 office, I go in there; it costs me nothing. Once you hit the 14 $3,000, you're paid. I vote yes. Let's go. (Laughter.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: What are you talking about? It's 16 simple. 17 MR. LOONEY: I don't want to complicate your lives. 18 Now, that's -- the $3,000, in some cases -- you know, if you 19 can find a way to deposit it in ahead of time, you actually 20 might be able to get a tax write-off on it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deposit it. 22 MR. LOONEY: You have to -- yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mean do your own card? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: 457? 25 MS. HYDE: No. No, sir. 11-15-10A 34 1 MR. LOONEY: No, it's a special tax -- it's a 2 special tax benefit that you're allowed to take if you put 3 your money -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: H.S.A.? Do an H.S.A.? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Individually. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, one thing about the 8 3,000, Tim, that's 6,000 family. 9 MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. ODOM: 6,000. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 3,000 for you. 12 MS. HYDE: No different than what you had before. 13 MR. ODOM: 9,000. A family is going to spend 14 $9,000. 15 MS. HYDE: No, sir. No, sir. 16 MR. ODOM: Wait a second. 3,000 for me, three for 17 my wife, and it costs you 250 a month. That's $3,000. So, a 18 person could -- a family could be out $9,000. In a county 19 employee. Think about it. 20 MS. HYDE: But the first 6,000 is the same thing 21 that you're doing right now. It's the 250 that is the 22 additional. I'm just saying. The 250 is the additional -- 23 MR. ODOM: But still, 9,000. You have the 24 potential of $9,000 out of your pocket. 25 MR. LOONEY: Possible. 11-15-10A 35 1 MR. ODOM: A family. 2 MR. LOONEY: In which case you can take it off your 3 income tax. 4 MR. ODOM: Yeah. Well, that'll help, won't it? 5 MR. LOONEY: Believe me, if there were a better way 6 to get there -- if there were an easier way to skin that cat, 7 I'd have done it. It just has to be in -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: You've been awful quiet over there, 9 Commissioner 1. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm pondering on this mental 11 health stuff over here. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Do you think it's about 13 time? 14 MS. HYDE: It's covered. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I heard Ms. Hyde say a while 16 ago -- she looked at Letz and said, "I can see your wheels 17 turning." That's scary crap, man, I'm telling you. So, I'm 18 kind of looking into the mental health thing here. For her. 19 (Laughter.) 20 MS. HYDE: The Judge can make it happen; he just 21 does the signy thing. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It all sounds good to me. I 23 mean, I hate to -- I hate these increases on our employees. 24 Hate the increases on me. But if it's the option, it's the 25 option. It sounds like a good plan. It's dollars and cents 11-15-10A 36 1 that drives us nuts. So, I'm with Tim. Just -- let's get on 2 down the road. 3 MR. LOONEY: Was that a motion? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Was that intended to be a motion? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, kind of. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of? A kind-of motion, huh? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a kind-of motion. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of, sort of? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sort of. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing, actually, with the 11 family -- and I'll correct what Len said. It could be 12 10,750, because of the 450 for a family. 13 MS. HYDE: The difference -- I mean, I'm going to 14 have to stand up in front of everybody in about a week and a 15 half anyhow, so I might as well get used to it. I don't mean 16 this ugly, but the budget is the budget. Number one. We had 17 $2,153,640, okay? Employees paid nothing for years and years 18 and years. Right now we're not going to give the employee 19 any money again that they have to pay. Now, that was 20 probably the biggest bone of contention at first between all 21 of us, because I felt real strongly about that. Do I like 22 it? Of course not. But we paid $129 for child or children, 23 and we paid $240 for a spouse, so for spouses you're going up 24 10 bucks. That's it, 10 bucks. Children, yes, sir. Yes, 25 sir, yes, ma'am, we went up. We went up almost $125 a month. 11-15-10A 37 1 And, yes, ma'am, yes, sirs, we went up about $100 on family 2 plans. So, I ask that you keep that in mind and do your 3 simple Texas math. Everybody in here can do simple Texas 4 math. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing I'll ask on top of 6 that, just -- I haven't heard anything contrary, so I assume 7 it is, but on those that have kids, the dependents, that 250 8 is for one or 20? 9 MS. HYDE: One or 20. 10 AUDIENCE: Yep. 11 MS. HARGIS: What's the current deductible for a 12 family? 13 MS. HYDE: Current deductible for a family is 14 $6,000, deductible and out-of-pocket total. So, the 6,000 is 15 the 6,000. It's there. You guys already had that. But, 16 yes, the new cost per month has gone up, which we showed 17 during budget multiple times, multiple ways. And we also 18 stuck with what we said during budget, was the 250, 250, 450. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The main difference is that the 20 employee portion of the cost is front-loaded. 21 MS. HYDE: We front-loaded it. It's zero. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, just for -- the reason 23 we're partially in the trouble we are is because it's 24 dependent coverage, is where the cost is. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 11-15-10A 38 1 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, the option -- we were 3 thinking of totally dropping dependent coverage, but we opted 4 not to do that and try to spread it out some. So, I mean, 5 you know, it's going to hit some of the employees really 6 hard. I understand that. But it's better than some of the 7 alternatives. 8 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you, it only takes 10 one minor hospital visit for a couple of days to -- and to 11 see those bills that come in for that, to realize what a 12 burden this is. Even if it looks bad and it feels bad and it 13 doesn't taste good, when you need it, it's -- you know, it's 14 important. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about maternity? 16 MS. HYDE: Excuse me? 17 MR. LOONEY: Are you reading -- 18 MS. HYDE: Did he say paternity or maternity? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maternity. 20 MS. HYDE: Maternity, okay. 21 MR. LOONEY: Covered as any other illness. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same as anything? 23 MS. HYDE: Right. 24 MR. LOONEY: Covered as any other illness. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What about retirees? 11-15-10A 39 1 MS. HYDE: Retirees would go up to $250, my 2 recommendation. It's a $50 increase on retirees. We already 3 cut the dependent children out of the retiree process, and 4 this year my recommendation would be that we take the spouse 5 to our cost, which was approximately $755 a month, and we 6 grandfather those in. And January 1, the retirement health 7 benefit will be for retiree only, no more dependent coverage. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Beginning January 1, 2011? 9 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or spouse coverage. 11 MS. HYDE: Spouse, mm-hmm. And that falls into 12 Ms. Hargis' and the GASB much better than what we have right 13 now. And it reduces -- 14 JUDGE TINLEY: A liability issue. 15 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. It reduces the liability 16 issue. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. LOONEY: Humana also has a very strong Medicare 19 program that is a -- I think it's called Humana Gold. Is 20 that what -- 21 AUDIENCE: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. LOONEY: Which, for a premium, covers all the 23 expenses under Part A, B, and D. You just have to use their 24 physician group as your provider. But once they're on the 25 plan, developing a relationship with their physician and 11-15-10A 40 1 everybody else, then moving to the Humana Gold as a retiree 2 for Medicare would be a very simple process to do. Well, 3 gentlemen, I need a motion. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my line, Gary. (Laughter.) 5 I thought I nearly had one over here. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah. Upon the 7 recommendation of Mr. Looney, I move that we approve the 8 Humana program. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, that's the base plan of the 10 $3,000 out-of-pocket, et cetera, the optional buy-up that 11 Humana's offering. Does your motion include the retiree 12 aspects that Ms. Hyde just mentioned? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. That's very, very 14 distasteful, but yes. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's still a bargain for them. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's fine, yeah. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 18 second? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'll second it. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second. 21 Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the 22 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 11-15-10A 41 1 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you, 2 sir. You got us through a very difficult process. We 3 appreciate your work. And, frankly, I didn't expect to see a 4 solution that was -- 5 MR. LOONEY: As comprehensive? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, not only comprehensive, but in 7 terms of what we had, it was just a matter of how you 8 cash-flowed it, and this one, where it's cash-flowed up front 9 by the insured, which, you know, takes a little bit out of 10 you right there in the beginning, but it gives you that 11 absolute protection once you reach that cap for those major 12 illnesses. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 MR. LOONEY: Thank y'all very much. I appreciate 15 it. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen, I think that's all we got 17 before us right now, correct? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Until -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: 4:30. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- 4:30. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: 4:30, we have another meeting to 22 canvass the -- the vote of the general election, and we'll be 23 back in here. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'll be here. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not even going to ask 11-15-10A 42 1 why 4:30. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was going to be 3 at 1:30; we put it off till 4:30. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll be adjourned. 5 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:31 p.m.) 6 - - - - - - - - - - 7 8 9 STATE OF TEXAS | 10 COUNTY OF KERR | 11 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 12 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 13 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 14 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 15 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of November, 16 2010. 17 18 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 19 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 23 24 25 11-15-10A