1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, December 13, 2010 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X December 13, 2010 2 PAGE --- Visitors' Input 7 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 7 4 1.1 Update on senior status of Kerr County residents from Patrice Doerries and Coral Adema, Kerr County 5 representatives on the Alamo Area Senior Advisory Committee 10 6 1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 7 request from Sean Kendrick to raise coyote bounty in west Kerr County -- 8 1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set 9 public hearing for proposed private road name "Infamous Trail NW", Precinct 4 15 10 1.4 Public hearing regarding Wise Lane E., a 11 private road off Bear Creek Road, in Staacke Ranch Subdivision, Precinct 3 17 12 1.5 Presentation from the Ingram FFA Agriculture 13 Issues Team on Wildlife Management Presentation and short presentation by Kerr Central Appraisal 14 District Chief Appraiser Fourth Coates regarding agricultural exempt properties 17 15 1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 16 final approval regarding naming Wise Lane E., a private road off Bear Creek Road, in Staacke Ranch 17 Subdivision; release the Frost Bank Letter of Credit in the amount of $31,000, Precinct 3 37 18 1.7 Public hearing regarding private road name of 19 JCRV Drive W., Precinct 4 39 20 1.8 Public hearing on revision of plat for Lots 9 & 10 of Ledge Stone Subdivision, Precinct 2 40 21 1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 22 final approval regarding private road name of JCRV Drive W., Precinct 4 40 23 1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 24 request from Kerrville Youth Baseball and Softball Association (KYBSA) to help maintain property it 25 leases from Kerr County 42 3 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 13, 2010 2 PAGE 1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action 3 concerning resolution authorizing County Judge to represent Kerr County in joint application 4 with City of Kerrville for a grant from Texas Water Development Board for flood protection 5 planning; enter into interlocal agreement with City of Kerrville if awarded, committing funds 6 and/or in kind services to the study, Precinct 1 47 7 1.12 Presentation from Kerr County Historical Commission regarding Verde Creek Road 55 8 1.13 Public hearing to vacate, abandon and discontinue 9 a portion of Verde Creek Road from FM 480 to Highway 173 pursuant to Texas Transportation Code -- 10 1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for 11 Tax Assessor/Collector's Office to be open on December 31st 2010, a scheduled holiday, to allow 12 for end-of-year tax payments, and for employees to take as a floating holiday 61 13 1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 14 appoint Jeannie Schladoer new ESD #2 commissioner 64 15 1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on resolution thanking Kay Hayes for her service on 16 the Library Advisory Board 65 17 1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action regarding rental of new outdoor arena at Hill 18 Country Youth Exhibit Center 66 19 1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to address possibility of prohibiting the sale or 20 use of restricted fireworks in any portion of the unincorporated area of Kerr County pursuant 21 to Local Government Code § 352.051 for December fireworks season 70 22 1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 23 take down old water tank and cap old well, dig up and remove old butane tank that is in the ground, 24 reroute existing main water line and rework water lines to be above ground, and build insulated 25 building around water lines at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center 72 4 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 13, 2010 2 PAGE 1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate to declare 3 butane tank taken out of ground at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center as surplus 81 4 1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 5 ratify a mediated agreement between Kerr County and Clint and Amy Tuma, d/b/a Hatari Safari 81 6 1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 7 whether Kerr County should continue spending taxpayer money to prosecute civil lawsuit against 8 the Tumas when the Tumas have provided everything required by Texas Health and Safety Code -- 9 1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to 10 amend Kerr County Health Benefits Plan to provide that dependents of Kerr County employees over 65 11 or otherwise eligible for Medicare coverage are not eligible or permissible as insureds under 12 Kerr County Health Benefits Plan 107 13 1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action with regard to establishing Kerr County Personnel 14 Policy concerning retirement of Kerr County employees and subsequent rehire 108 15 1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 16 resolution requesting Kerr County not be included in Southern Edwards Plateau-Habitat Conservation 17 Plan (SEP-HCP) 113 18 1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on updated Field Agreement/Trapper Contract 122 19 1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on 20 amended contract with Freese and Nichols for engineering services regarding Ingram dam repairs --- 21 4.1 Pay Bills 124 22 4.2 Budget Amendments 131 4.3 Late Bills --- 23 4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 133 24 5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee Assignments 134 25 5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 135 5 1 I N D E X (Continued) December 13, 2010 2 PAGE 3 1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on pending and possible litigation regarding Bill 4 Vlasek issue (Executive Session) --- 5 --- Adjourned 146 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 On Monday, December 13, 2010, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 8 Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the 9 Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this 10 date and time, Monday, December 13, 2010, at 9 a.m. It is 11 that time now. Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please stand join me in a 13 moment of prayer, followed by the pledge. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's 16 a member of the public or the audience that wishes to be 17 heard on any matter which is not a listed agenda item, this 18 is your opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on 19 your mind. If you wish to be heard with respect to an agenda 20 item, we'd ask that you fill out a participation form. There 21 should be some at the rear of the room. It's not essential 22 that you do that; it just helps me to be sure that hopefully 23 I don't miss you when we get to that item. If you have not 24 filled out a participation form, when we get to the item you 25 wish to be heard on, get my attention in some manner and I'll 12-13-10 7 1 see that you do have that opportunity. But right now, if 2 there's any member of the public or the audience that wishes 3 to be heard on a matter which is not a listed agenda item, 4 come forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. 5 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I have something I can 6 report to you. Cheryl and I just got back from a vital 7 statistics conference, and for the 11th year in a row, we 8 brought back the Exemplary Award. We are at 12. We have 9 also been recertified, assuming that we passed our test, 10 which I don't see any problem in it, in our AOP's. That's 11 all. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Again, our vital statistics people 15 in the County Clerk's office have done their usual good job, 16 and received again -- it's getting kind of monotonous now, 17 isn't it? -- that Five Star Exemplary Award. 18 MS. PIEPER: They make it harder each year. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We appreciate that work. 20 Anyone else wish to be heard on a matter that's not listed on 21 the agenda? Okay, we'll move on with our agenda. 22 Commissioner Letz? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have anything this 24 morning. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 12-13-10 8 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not this morning. Got a long 2 agenda. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I do have -- I want to 5 read a short letter from one of my constituents. It says, 6 "To Leonard Odom, Kerr County Road and Bridge Department. 7 Please convey my personal appreciation and the thanks of 8 numerous Upper Turtle Creek residents for the excellent work 9 provided by the work crew responsible for the Upper Turtle 10 Creek Road and many feeder roads such as Coker, Backacre, and 11 Garner. This crew displays a work ethic, attention to 12 detail, and finish quality that is nothing short of 13 excellent. This correspondence will be forwarded through the 14 office of Commissioner Baldwin. Sincerely, B.G. Cormack." 15 Just a nice little note to say thank you. We don't hear that 16 very often, and just say thank to you Leonard. Another item, 17 I had a brand-new grandson last Friday. And 10 pounds, 10 18 ounces. So -- 19 AUDIENCE: Wow. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The Tivy coaches 21 should be -- you know, some slobber coming down at least. 22 'Cause I have three of them now that are like that, and 23 they're really getting big. His name is Titus Baldwin 24 Robertson, and he's -- he's a handsome feller, I'll tell you. 25 That's all, Judge. I'm excited about today. 12-13-10 9 1 JUDGE TINLEY: One item that probably we need to 2 get out in the public forum. Of course, we're all saddened 3 by the loss of our colleague, Commissioner Bill Williams. 4 And -- but the business of the Court must go forward, and we 5 need to fill that vacancy on the Court. The Local Government 6 Code provides -- and the County Attorney has confirmed that 7 if a vacancy occurs in the office of county commissioner, the 8 County Judge shall appoint a suitable resident of the 9 precinct in which the vacancy exists to fill the vacancy 10 until the next general election. In that regard, I hope to 11 receive expressions of interest from those folks who would be 12 interested in being appointed to that position. I'm under no 13 specific timeline deadline to make that appointment, but as I 14 say, we've got business to conduct, and the folks in that 15 precinct need to be represented. The constituents there need 16 a representative on the court. So, I hope to be able to do 17 that in the not too distant future. Those that have an 18 expression of interest, I would hope they would submit that 19 to me, hopefully in writing, within the next week to 10 days, 20 certainly two weeks, and we'll evaluate those when they're 21 received. But that needs to be done in order to go forward 22 with the business of the Court. I'll be evaluating those, 23 listening to the other Commissioners on the Court as to their 24 thoughts and ideas, and hopefully be making that appointment 25 at or shortly after the first of the year. 12-13-10 10 1 We've got a fairly long agenda; let's get on with 2 it. First item on the agenda is a 9 o'clock timed item, an 3 update on the senior status of Kerr County residents from 4 Patrice Doerries and Coral Adema, Kerr County representatives 5 on the Alamo Area Senior Advisory Committee. Good morning. 6 MS. ADEMA: Good morning. 7 MS. DOERRIES: Morning. 8 MS. ADEMA: I'm Coral Adema. I'm a nurse with 9 Peterson Hospice, and I also am an instructor for A Matter of 10 Balance. 11 MS. DOERRIES: And I'm Patrice Doerries; I am with 12 Hill Country Cares. Both of us were appointed by you, Judge 13 Tinley, to be representatives to the Senior Advisory 14 Committee for AACOG. And this is our yearly report of the 15 good things that are happening with seniors here in Kerr 16 County, and where we had challenges. 17 MS. ADEMA: Some of the good things are, we do have 18 free classes. A Matter of Balance is a fall prevention 19 course. A chronic disease education course, a diabetes, and 20 grief support. And you'll see notices from time to time in 21 the paper, or if you want classes -- if the public wants 22 classes, they just have to contact one of us or AACOG. Some 23 of the of highlights, the Legislature appointed a committee 24 on aging. We do have the executive report in -- in the 25 packets you were given. Reduced fares for transportation for 12-13-10 11 1 the seniors. Resources are available for seniors needing 2 assistance with utilities, air-conditioner, and ramp 3 construction. We are working on getting those numbers 4 available. At this point, they weren't available, how many 5 were served in Kerr County and how many were not. The 6 resource center is located at Dietert. The Hill Country 7 Coalition on Aging, which is 71 providers serving in Kerr 8 County, and they come from most of the health care 9 industries, some private sector people, some financial 10 people. Am I missing -- 11 MS. DOERRIES: That's -- legal. 12 MS. ADEMA: And coming up in 2011, that we know -- 13 oh, also the Texas Conference on Aging was held in Kerrville. 14 There were 347 people attending from outside of Kerrville. 15 Some of them were from outside of the state. Coming up, we 16 have Senior Day at the Capitol. There's a new -- well, we 17 already talked about the new commissioner needs to be 18 appointed for the AACOG Board; Bill Williams was the AACOG 19 Board director. And Dietert has some new program -- new 20 programming, part of which is information and referral. Hill 21 Country Crisis also -- Hill Country Cares also provides that. 22 And I think most of you do know that we have lots of seniors, 23 29 percent. These statistics vary depending on which -- 24 which demographics you look at, but about a third of our 25 citizens of Kerrville are seniors 65 and above. 4 percent -- 12-13-10 12 1 that's wrong. 4 percent of Kerr County seniors are over 85. 2 24 percent of Kerr County is above 65. The national average 3 is about 12 percent. In the United States, as well as most 4 of the other -- Center Point and Ingram, most of those also 5 are about 12 percent. 6 MS. DOERRIES: With the good, we also have our 7 challenges, and so I'm going to present the challenges. 8 Adult Protective Services is the body that is charged with 9 protecting seniors, and in Kerr County last year, there were 10 297 reported cases of adult abuse. Of those 297, 265 were 11 investigated, and 193 were confirmed. At this time, there 12 are 229 seniors in Kerr County receiving services. So, this 13 is an alarming number for us at any time, but we wanted you 14 to know what is most current with APS. The challenges that 15 those of us that work with seniors see is the denial on the 16 part of many seniors, their caregiver, and the community that 17 these problems exist. There's a great deal of denial and 18 refusing to accept help. Also, we have a lack of preparation 19 on the part of a senior when a crisis situation takes place. 20 We only react; we are not proactive. And of that, I think 21 it's an interesting demographic that of the over-65, that 57 22 percent of the women are over 65, so half -- over half of the 23 women are having to deal with the crisis. We also see a lack 24 of preparation on the part of the senior for a diagnosis of a 25 serious illness, change in health status, or their finances. 12-13-10 13 1 Those of us that work professionally with seniors, 2 this is what we deal with. It's not only the situation, but 3 the surrounding environment and those that they work with. 4 In Kerr County, 1,200 seniors are raising their 5 grandchildren. Twelve hundred seniors are raising their 6 grandchildren. There are rising costs and diminished 7 resources, and of the 65 that Coral mentioned -- over-65, 6 8 percent live below the poverty level. Transportation and 9 mobility was certainly mentioned in the aging summary that is 10 attached to your report, but it continues to be an issue for 11 seniors. And 24 percent of our seniors in Kerr County are 12 living alone without a caregiver. So, you can see that these 13 are challenges that not only face the individual and their 14 family, their caregiver, but it's something that the 15 community has to look at. So, we appreciate your support, 16 and we look forward to -- we appreciate the opportunity and 17 the privilege to serve on this committee and represent Kerr 18 County, and we'll entertain any questions that you might 19 have. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for these ladies? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, seniors is officially 22 65? 23 MS. DOERRIES: Well -- 24 MS. ADEMA: That's the way the demographics -- 25 MS. DOERRIES: That's the way the demographics are 12-13-10 14 1 presented. You probably can go to a store, and if you're 55 2 and above, you can get a discount. But -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm concerned 4 about, of course. (Laughter.) No, occasionally that has 5 happened. I've gotten a reduction on my cost of pizza, and I 6 just -- I don't know if I'm a senior or not. 7 MS. DOERRIES: Well, you know, you can -- you get 8 to determine. You can show them your driver's license. But 9 the demographic that we work with are 65 and above. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Driver's license? 11 JUDGE TINLEY: What are you talking about? He 12 doesn't have a driver's license. He's not qualified to 13 drive. 14 MS. DOERRIES: As I mentioned, denial on the part 15 of the senior citizen is one of our greatest challenges. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all have made this much too 17 difficult. (Laughter.) 18 MS. DOERRIES: Thank you so much. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Ladies, we thank you for your 20 service. 21 MS. DOERRIES: We'll see you next year. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for your service on behalf 23 of Kerr County on the committee. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know why people just 25 take off when I start asking questions. 12-13-10 15 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the memory lapses that you 2 have I think qualify you to be a senior. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may be. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to our other 9 o'clock 7 timed item. Number 2 is to consider, discuss, take 8 appropriate action on a request from Sean Kendrick to raise 9 the coyote bounty in west Kerr County. Mr. Kendrick? Is 10 Mr. Kendrick here with us? 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't see him. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently, the degree of interest 13 was not high enough that he... Okay, let's go to our 9:05 14 timed item; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to set 15 a public hearing for the proposed private road name Infamous 16 Trail Northwest, located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom? 17 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Road and Bridge Administrator. 19 MR. ODOM: Work my way through. Judge, what we 20 have before us, on November the 22nd, Mr. Lubojosky requested 21 a private road name. He's gone to 911, and they are 22 requesting this road naming. This road involves four 23 different lots, and he has a letter that states that all four 24 people agree to this. So, at this time, we ask the Court to 25 set a public hearing for Monday, January 24th, 2011, for 12-13-10 16 1 9:05 a.m. for the proposed private road name of Infamous 2 Trail Northwest, Precinct 4. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item to set a public hearing on the 7 matter for January 24, 2011, at 9:05 a.m. Question or 8 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We have a 14 9:10 item. I'm going to read the item. Item 28; consider, 15 discuss, take appropriate action on amended contract with 16 Freese and Nichols for engineering services regarding the 17 Ingram Dam repairs. It's my understanding that that needs to 18 be passed at this time? 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Passed until next meeting. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let's go to Item Number 21 4, which is a 9:15 timed item. At this time, I will recess 22 the Commissioners Court meeting, and I'll convene a public 23 hearing regarding Wise Lane East, a private road off Bear 24 Creek Road in the Staacke Ranch Subdivision, located in 25 Precinct 3. 12-13-10 17 1 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:20 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 2 court, as follows:) 3 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 5 audience that wishes to be heard with respect to -- regarding 6 Wise Lane East, that being a private road off Bear Creek Road 7 in the Staacke Ranch Subdivision? Seeing no one coming 8 forward, I will close the public hearing. 9 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:20 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 10 reopened.) 11 - - - - - - - - - - 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the 13 Commissioners Court meeting, and we'll go to Item 5, Item 5 14 being a 9:15 timed item also, that being a presentation from 15 the Ingram FFA Agricultural Issues Team on wildlife 16 management presentations, and a short presentation from Kerr 17 Central Appraisal District Chief Appraiser "Fourth" Coates 18 regarding agricultural exempt properties. 19 MR. COATES: Appreciate it, Judge. I talked to 20 Jody Grinstead and told her that this might take more than 21 just a few minutes. This says I've got five minutes to do 22 everything in. I'm afraid we're going to run a little over. 23 I apologize for that in advance. However -- 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Let me interrupt you, if I may. 25 MR. COATES: Yes. 12-13-10 18 1 JUDGE TINLEY: You do not have five minutes. 2 That's just how we stack the items. And -- 3 MR. COATES: Okay, thank you. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: -- a lot of times -- a lot of times 5 we don't get there when we should. 6 MR. COATES: I understand. Well, thanks, Judge. I 7 appreciate that. First of all, we're going to be addressing 8 agricultural productivity value for Kerr County, and kind of 9 a general overall view. Pretty -- everyone pretty much 10 understands the old livestock agricultural production values. 11 The wildlife management is one that there's been a lot of 12 confusion about; it's a relatively new one, so I've -- we had 13 a really good presentation by a team from one of our local 14 schools. I'm going to have one of my appraisers introduce 15 that team, since his children go to that school. And he's 16 the one that was instrumental in bringing them to the 17 Appraisal District to give us a presentation, which is 18 excellent, by the way. Then I'm going to follow up with 19 some -- some other things, some data and stuff like that. 20 I've got some of my employees here that work hands-on with 21 the agricultural applications, and also my senior appraiser 22 who also is over all of them and deals with overall values. 23 So, as we get on down the road, I'm going to have Michael 24 Mann introduce the Ingram FFA Ag Issues Team. And there they 25 are. 12-13-10 19 1 MR. MANN: Good morning, gentlemen. If y'all want 2 to go ahead and get set up while I introduce you here. My 3 name is Michael Mann, and I work for Fourth here at the 4 Appraisal District. And I'd like to introduce Don Harris. 5 Don Harris is the ag teacher at Ingram Tom Moore High School, 6 and Mr. Harris has been teaching at the school for just over 7 seven years now, and he's done a phenomenal job. If you've 8 caught any information about these ag teams, this is just one 9 of several teams that has done very well. This is an ag 10 issues team, and they have chosen a topic in agricultural 11 issues. It's similar to debate. If you're familiar with 12 debate back in the day, they talk about their chosen topic. 13 This year it was wildlife valuation, so it speaks very 14 pertinent to Texas taxes, the education system, wildlife and 15 agriculture exemptions. We had the privilege of being their 16 dry run. They've actually been to several other appraisal 17 districts and gained good information from several other 18 counties as well. They placed first place in Blanco at their 19 area meet for FFA, and they just finished up at the state 20 meet. Out of 157 teams, they placed 8th. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. 22 MR. MANN: That's kind of unusual, because they're 23 usually in the top two or three. So, this is a fabulous 24 presentation. It will take them just a second to get set up 25 here. Mr. Harris, do you have a few words? 12-13-10 20 1 MR. HARRIS: Well, these young people have been 2 working on this -- actually started during the summer doing 3 research and what-have-you, and I think you'll see that 4 they've become pretty polished and knowledgeable on the 5 subject. Agriculture, as far as teaching in schools these 6 days, it's a lot different. The old term, "cows, plows, and 7 sows," is out the window. We're teaching leadership in 8 people. We're not producing farmers any more. We're 9 teaching people that can go out there and talk to people and 10 stand on their two legs and think, and interact with people 11 and go into sales or research and things of this sort. And I 12 think these people will -- will show what we're trying to do 13 in agriculture these days in the school system. They have -- 14 several of these people have gone to national on different 15 teams, and they're doing good work. And I think their resume 16 looks pretty good as far as college and scholarships and 17 things of that sort. So, we'll get -- get this going just as 18 quick as we can. And you guys might have to come out here if 19 you're going to see the presentations. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Harris? 21 MR. HARRIS: Yes, sir? 22 JUDGE TINLEY: I've seen a number of newspaper 23 reports over the past several months about the activities of 24 all of these youngsters that are involved in these ag 25 programs, and I think you need to let these folks know 12-13-10 21 1 exactly what their accomplishments have been. I've seen 2 where they've been to national competitions up in -- as I 3 recall, one of them was in Indianapolis, -- 4 MR. HARRIS: Indianapolis. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: -- in that part of the country, and 6 some others, and these folks need to know what these young 7 people have been up to. 8 MR. HARRIS: Well -- well, four of these people are 9 seniors, and these two young men have been on three state 10 wildlife teams -- well, two wildlife teams and one agronomy 11 team; high-point individual in state, and we're talking with 12 hundreds of teams and stuff, and so they've worked hard. 13 Sara's gone on along with the guys on an environmental -- 14 national environmental team we had year before last, and so 15 they're -- they're getting a lot of recognition, not only 16 around our area, but in the state, but nationally as well, 17 and we're awfully proud of them, and I hope most of you will 18 be too. They represent our -- our county very well, not just 19 Ingram. But I think they're good representatives. 20 (The following presentation was made by Ingram FFA Agriculture Issues Team Members Daniel Haverlah, 21 Taylor Barker, Sarah McClung, Eowyn Scott, Nathan Bird, & Rebekah Talarico, each speaking in turn.) 22 23 Save our habitat. Save our wildlife. Stop 24 urbanization. Keep the country free. Give us a break. No 25 more taxes. Play by the rules. Consistency across counties. 12-13-10 22 1 Big deal, you saved a few squirrels. Pay your fair share. 2 Keep a kid in school. Habitat? Urbanization? Taxes? Can 3 these three topics really be related? Today we, Ingram FFA, 4 will show you that the wildlife property tax valuations in 5 Texas are actually very controversial. Since 1995, these 6 three topics have been the source of many disputes between 7 landowners, government officials, and the general public. 8 And it all started with Proposition 11, an amendment that 9 allows a tax break in exchange for managing land for wildlife 10 use. But before we explore the controversies of this 11 amendment, we must clear up a few misconceptions concerning 12 wildlife exemptions. There's no such thing. You can't be 13 exempt from your taxes simply because you have wildlife on 14 your land. Instead, landowners receive a reduced taxable 15 appraisal value based on the production value of their 16 property, rather than the actual market value. That means a 17 wildlife property tax valuation. 18 Let's outline the guidelines of this law, which 19 underwent a few clarifications and changes in 2008. In order 20 to qualify for a wildlife valuation, the property must 21 currently have an open space agricultural valuation before 22 switching to a wildlife property tax valuation. Secondly, 23 the property in question, unless grandfathered during a 2001 24 rule change, must meet minimum acreage requirements based on 25 the following formula: This formula is "X" minus 1, divided 12-13-10 23 1 by "X," where "X" equals the number of acres being used for 2 wildlife valuation. This formula allows for a small section 3 of the land to be used for non-wildlife-related purpose, such 4 as a residence, since wildlife management must be the key use 5 of the property. If a landowner has 200 acres, the formula 6 would be 200 minus 1, divided by 200, and the landowner would 7 have 99.5 percent of his or her property devoted to wildlife 8 use. 9 Texas Parks and Wildlife has divided the state of 10 Texas into 12 regions, each with the range of allowable 11 percentages for wildlife use. Based on these ranges, the 12 smallest tract of land allowable for a wildlife valuation at 13 92 percent is 13 acres. These minimums are established by 14 the County Appraiser, but are kept under the guidance of the 15 Texas Parks and Wildlife. Finally, landowners whose land 16 qualifies for a wildlife valuation must complete a wildlife 17 management plan that will meet three of seven criteria, but 18 basically landowners must serve the wildlife. All these 19 criteria have long lists of possible activities that could 20 count for each given area, and can be geared toward a 21 specific wildlife target species. For the sake of time, we 22 cannot go into any more detail on the requirements for 23 wildlife valuations, but we will gladly answer any of your 24 questions at the end of our presentation. 25 While we will be focusing on the rules and 12-13-10 24 1 important controversies related to Texas tax codes, other 2 states have experienced similar issues. This is a national 3 concern. This issue can be divided into two distinct sides. 4 The question at stake is, who should be eligible for wildlife 5 property valuation? Now, turn your attention to the debate. 6 Wildlife property tax valuations, habitat healthy or 7 landowner loophole? The pros of this issue are clearly 8 defined. Number one, wildlife property tax valuations allow 9 for habitat preservation and wildlife conservation. Number 10 two, wildlife property tax valuations have served as a proven 11 means to prevent land fragmentation. Number three, wildlife 12 property tax valuations provide financial relief for 13 landowners. 14 While we agree some good has come from Proposition 15 11, we argue that the vagueness of the law has led to 16 unethical translations, thus contributing the con points that 17 we will outline for you. Number one, the requirements 18 outlined in Proposition 11 are insufficient for the health 19 and well being of many wildlife species. Number two, the 20 playing field for landowners is not level from county to 21 county. Number three, wildlife property tax valuations rob 22 money from schools and other public services that are 23 required for the good of the community. The guidelines 24 established by Proposition 11 are so specific that anyone who 25 follows them will have a positive impact on the environmental 12-13-10 25 1 wildlife and habitat. We briefly mentioned the criteria 2 earlier, but let's look at how each criterion is designed to 3 improve wildlife populations. 4 Landowners must elect three of the listed criteria. 5 These are all activities that will directly improve the 6 quality of life, and in many cases, the population sizes of 7 indigenous wildlife species. An indigenous animal is one 8 that is native or naturally migrates through Texas. 9 Landowners select an indigenous animal to manage for and 10 select three of the previously listed criteria. In central 11 Texas, 70 landowners with a combined 110,000 acres began 12 managing for black-capped vireos, a songbird that entered the 13 endangered species list in 1987 with 350 adults. Thanks to 14 the incentive of wildlife property tax valuations, the 15 numbers of black-capped vireos boomed to 6,000. Under the 16 requirements of Proposition 11, landowners file a wildlife 17 management plan that outlines the goals and strategies that 18 will be used to benefit the targeted wildlife species. This 19 plan organized by the Texas Parks and Wildlife is filed with 20 the county Tax Appraiser. According to Susan Combs, Texas 21 Comptroller, this written plan insures that landowners are 22 engaged in activities necessary to preserve a sustaining 23 breeding population on the land. 24 What Sarah says is true; the law does require a 25 range plan to be submitted. But she failed to mention that 12-13-10 26 1 these written plans receive very little attention. The Texas 2 Parks and Wildlife web site says, Remember, it is not about 3 the quality of the management taking place, but rather 4 whether or not the landowner is meting the criteria 5 established for qualification. Additionally, the Texas Parks 6 and Wildlife has no obligation to review or approve these 7 written wildlife management plans. This law even leaves an 8 explicit loophole for landowners and why they manage their 9 wildlife. Had Sarah continued with Comptroller Combs' 10 description of qualifying lands for wildlife use, you would 11 have heard that the law requires the landowner to propagate 12 the wildlife population for human use. How do they define 13 "human use"? It includes food, medicine, and recreation. 14 Now, when I think of recreational use of wildlife, 15 I'm envisioning hunting or fishing, but the way this law is 16 interpreted, it can be as simple as passively observing the 17 wildlife. In San Antonio, S.A. Real Estate, owner of a PGA 18 Tour golf resort, has submitted 375 acres of the new golf 19 reserve for a wildlife valuation, stating that their course 20 is beneficial to local wildlife. Even with the argument that 21 a golf course has recreational use, it is the game that is 22 recreational, not the wildlife. Therefore, they cannot 23 legally qualify for a wildlife valuation. We still contend 24 that the benefits of Proposition 11 have had a major impact 25 on the preservation of our natural habitat by preventing land 12-13-10 27 1 fragmentation. In the last 40 years, the amount of land 2 involved in farms and ranches has declined by three million 3 acres. Larger farms and ranches are being subdivided, sold 4 off into smaller tracts of land, and some of this land is 5 incorporated into metropolitan areas. 6 According to Matt Wagner, a wildlife biologist, 7 this is the biggest threat to wildlife and habitat today. 8 Specifically, land fragmentation results in the loss of open 9 space, increased hunting pressure, and the introduction of 10 cats and dogs as new predators. And the smaller the tract of 11 land, the more difficult it is to manage wildlife on the 12 land. The economic ease provided by wildlife valuations, 13 which we will discuss shortly, can allow families to keep 14 their land intact simply by allowing them to afford their 15 taxes. When these lands are kept in their original sizes, 16 fewer people are in charge of managing for wildlife, allowing 17 for better consistency and more attention to the detail 18 required for wildlife. 19 Preventing land fragmentation may have been part of 20 the intent of Proposition 11, but land is still being 21 divided, and the law allows it, even encourages it. Let's go 22 back to the minimum acreage requirements we discussed in our 23 introduction. These regions can grant wildlife valuation for 24 92 percent land use, which, as we demonstrated earlier, is 25 only 13 acres. I beg your pardon, Sarah; 13 acres sounds 12-13-10 28 1 pretty fragmented to me. But county appraisers are bound by 2 the ranges set by Texas Parks and Wildlife. Take, for 3 example, Limestone County located in the Blackland Prairie 4 region. County appraisers must select a percentage between 5 92 and 94 percent. Even if the county offers the highest 6 minimum of 94 percent, this still means that a property with 7 as little as 16 acres would qualify for wildlife valuation. 8 Could a property this size be managed for large 9 wildlife species like deer and turkey? Of course not. A 10 ranch in Limestone County has actively managed its 800 acres 11 for deer, ducks, and dove over the last 15 years, yet the 12 deer populations have steadily decreased. Why? Neighboring 13 tracts of land that are smaller in size are overhunted and 14 under-managed. However, these smaller tracts of land can 15 manage for a few songbirds and still receive a wildlife 16 valuation. But for those who truly practice wildlife 17 management techniques, shouldn't there be some financial 18 incentives to reward their activities? County appraisers 19 grant a wildlife property tax valuation for landowners who 20 fit the criteria for wildlife management. 21 According to a study performed by the Texas A & M 22 University Department of Wildlife and Fishery Science, the 23 average wildlife value for properties was $134 per acre, 24 while the market value for the same properties was $1,315 per 25 acre. In other words, landowners who qualify for a wildlife 12-13-10 29 1 valuation will, on average, be taxed on a value that is over 2 $1,000 less than the market value of their land. According 3 to Texas Wildlife Association, without the wildlife 4 valuation, one landowner in Kendall County would see his 5 taxes increase from $2,850 to $21,500 a year, but with the 6 wildlife valuation, he can afford to keep his real property 7 and can afford to better manage his land for the benefit of 8 the wildlife. Also -- 9 Hold on, Sarah. An $18,000 tax break? Okay. If 10 the landowner's primary income comes from the production and 11 preservation of wildlife, then I get it, since it can be 12 difficult to make money in this arena. But, again, people 13 abuse the law. If that PGA Tour gets their wildlife 14 valuation, it will save them $700,000 in property taxes per 15 year. Michael Dell, of Dell Computers, owns a 1,700-acre 16 ranch receiving a wildlife valuation. This saves him $1.2 17 million in property taxes. Now, this concern is not a case 18 of jealousy. We applaud people who can legitimately and 19 ethically make and save money. The issue is that people that 20 can and should be paying their taxes are not. Do you know 21 where these property taxes would go? Property taxes pay for 22 public services, including road maintenance and law 23 enforcement, but the entity most likely to lose financially 24 is the public school system. Our very own school district, 25 Ingram ISD, misses out on over four and a half million 12-13-10 30 1 dollars a year due to wildlife valuations. Kerrville ISD 2 loses over $25 million a year. Combined, the eight school 3 districts that are located in Kerr County would receive over 4 $54 million. Statewide, the loss in revenue to school 5 districts tops $1.5 billion. 6 Now, just a minute. It may be true that property 7 with wildlife valuations pay lower taxes, but in a report 8 published by Hays County titled "Cost of Community Services," 9 owners of wildlife-use properties cost only 33 cents for 10 public services for every dollar they paid in taxes. 11 Meanwhile, urban residents required $1.26 for every dollar 12 paid in taxes. Why should rural landowners pick up the 13 educational tab for urban residents? The truth is, they pay 14 more than their fair share. As you can see, Texans are still 15 divided over Proposition 11. Does Proposition 11 help 16 preserve wildlife and their habitat, or does the vagueness of 17 the law allow landowners to be minimalistic about land? Does 18 the law prevent land fragmentation, or does the minimum 19 acreage requirements encourage land fragmentation? Does the 20 law provide a fair financial incentive for wildlife 21 preservation in the form of tax breaks, or do the wealthy 22 take advantage of the law, and in turn hurt the public school 23 system? Currently, the state has no intention to modify the 24 Tax Code. Instead, we implore landowners to make wise, 25 ethical decisions when seeking a wildlife valuation. If we 12-13-10 31 1 use them properly, we can make a difference. Thank you. We 2 now stand ready for questions. 3 (Applause.) 4 AUDIENCE: What is the percentage in Kerr County? 5 MS. SCOTT: Kerr County is -- our area is within 6 the 92 to -- or partly. It's between the 94 to 96 region, 7 and I believe we have opted for 93. 8 MR. COATES: Thank you so much. That was 9 excellent. They gave this right at the first when they were 10 just in their -- their -- 11 MR. HARRIS: Very rough. 12 MR. COATES: Yeah, really good. Really, that 13 looked great. Appreciate it. Are there any questions that 14 the Judge or the Commissioners might have on wildlife that 15 they didn't cover? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: If I have any question in the 17 future, I know who to call, boy. 18 MR. COATES: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We got six folks here that know all 20 about this. 21 MR. COATES: They do. And I can see some potential 22 Appraisal District employees right here as well. (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Now, there might be some that would 24 suggest maybe these folks -- 25 MR. COATES: Replacement? 12-13-10 32 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I wasn't going to say that, but... 2 MR. COATES: That's all right, Judge. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excellent job. 4 MR. COATES: Well, without a doubt, y'all know that 5 wildlife management/ag issues are real important to 6 governmental entities that are trying to run a -- you know, 7 an operation. It's tough. You look at -- look at 8 everything, and overall, we've got a lot of loss due to ag. 9 I don't want to stretch this out any longer than it needs to 10 be, but the application process that we go through is 11 deliberate. It's time-consuming. We have to follow a lot of 12 rules from a lot of different agencies, and so it's not 13 something we take lightly. We do -- we do, however, look at 14 each one individually and try to make a judgment on them. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fourth, do you -- is it 16 required that you get the ag exemption before you can do the 17 wildlife? 18 MR. COATES: You have to have a regular ag 1-d-1, 19 or 1-d. We don't have any 1-d any more; that was the 20 original ag which initially started out. That was basically 21 on the person or the operation. There had to be 50 percent 22 or more of their income coming from agricultural. Now it's 23 opened up to people that have -- you know, basically, it went 24 from three years to a five-year process. So -- but, yes, 25 you're correct. In order to get wildlife management, you 12-13-10 33 1 have to have regular ag first. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fourth? 3 MR. COATES: Yeah? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that there's a process 5 that you have to go through that's pretty thorough to get 6 that wildlife exemption. 7 MR. COATES: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about the follow-up year 9 to year? 10 MR. COATES: Yes, we do that as well. Kathy 11 Leifeste is here. She has been our agricultural appraiser. 12 She's just been switched over to the personal property and 13 commercial. Jesse Scott is here -- where is Jesse? Are you 14 out there, Jesse? 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He was back there. 16 MR. COATES: He was ill, so he may have had to go 17 home. But Kathy can kind of give you a quick rundown on -- 18 on follow-up procedures that we have, and -- 19 MS. LEIFESTE: Yes. 20 MR. COATES: -- what we require. 21 MS. LEIFESTE: Yes. It is required that they fill 22 out a wildlife management plan. At that time, there's an 23 inspection done to verify that they're doing the minimum of 24 three of the seven annually. Included with that, any time an 25 ownership changes a name of the property, it can go into a 12-13-10 34 1 trust; then they're going to be reset. The following year, 2 they'll be asked to reapply. As far as subdivisions that 3 have a co-op or a -- they send in annual reports on their 4 subdivisions showing what the subdivision did in the last -- 5 previous year. At this time, we are not requiring an annual 6 report. That's something that we're looking at, into the 7 future, including. Right now, last year was the slowest year 8 we've had on resets for ag. There was approximately 250 9 applications that had to be processed and inspected. 10 Previous years that I've been there -- I've been there 11 since -- oh, nine years, ten years, approximately. Usually 12 they run between 400 and 500 applications that I'm looking 13 at, in a time period from January to April 30th, that has to 14 be completed so that we can get our appraisal notices out. 15 So, it has slowed down. So, with the slow-down, we can 16 potentially see us requiring an annual report from all the 17 wildlifes. It's just in the past, with one person, it's been 18 difficult to -- 19 MR. COATES: We can require a reapplication 20 basically any year. 21 MS. LEIFESTE: Any year. 22 MR. COATES: So -- but if y'all think there's 23 somebody out there that's not, you know, pulling their end of 24 the bargain on this deal, well, let us know. We'll be happy 25 to check into it. Of course, we may need a -- may need a 12-13-10 35 1 witness at the A.R.B. hearing. 2 MS. LEIFESTE: Even if we denied -- if we denied 3 the application, there's still a process that the landowner 4 has in recourse in trying to get that ag value or wildlife 5 value back on the property. They're then -- they file a 6 protest; they go back to the A.R.B. board. If they don't 7 have satisfaction there, they then can go into mediation or 8 district court on that. 9 MR. COATES: You might talk about the maps review 10 that we recently went through, which is kind of a thing that 11 was handed down from the Legislature. 12 MS. LEIFESTE: The Comptroller this year started a 13 review or audit of all the appraisal districts in the state 14 of Texas. They took half of them in 2010, and sent reviewers 15 out to inspect how they're doing everything with the 16 appraisal district. As far as the ag portion, you pretty 17 much have to have a written procedure or policy on everything 18 you do. So, they -- they went over our policies and 19 procedures on how we do ag value, how we inspect the 20 property, our applications and such, and then they also, in 21 -- in with that, they required us to answer approximately 30 22 questions on how we do our processing, and then the reviewer 23 came out and did -- pulled three wildlife managements and 24 three regular ags, did a physical inspection of those 25 properties to verify that what we're saying is on the 12-13-10 36 1 appraisal card is accurate. And as far as our total outlook, 2 we were in the top 10. Not 10 percent; top 10 in the state 3 of Texas for half of the appraisal districts in the state 4 this year. So -- 5 MR. COATES: Thanks, Kathy. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said it requires three 7 out of the seven. Is that, like, food, water, and -- 8 MS. LEIFESTE: Yes. Habitat, the census counts, 9 brush control. So, I mean, as an inspector, it is very 10 difficult to determine what is being done on the land or 11 what's not. Basically, you're going to have to set an 12 appointment up with the landowner to have them take you 13 around a piece of property to verify it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But as a property owner, it 15 doesn't seem that difficult to me, though. 16 MS. LEIFESTE: That's -- no. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Food and water. 18 MS. LEIFESTE: Food -- corn does not qualify, so 19 it's very important, 'cause it's not -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grasses? 21 MR. COATES: No, deer don't eat grass, if you're 22 managing for deer. It depends on your species that you're -- 23 MS. LEIFESTE: Yeah, target species. 24 MR. COATES: It can be songbirds; it can be -- do 25 we have any horny toad lizards? Anybody -- I don't think so. 12-13-10 37 1 Possibly could be horny toad lizards. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Red ants. 3 MR. COATES: Possibly. I hope not. Had a guy that 4 wanted to do a cave spider application one time. Denied it. 5 (Low-voice discussion off the record.) 6 MR. COATES: That's Mike Comer, my senior 7 appraiser. 8 AUDIENCE: Butterfly and bat houses. 9 MR. COATES: Bat houses, yeah. Butterflies. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all. 11 MR. COATES: Thank you. Appreciate it. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. 13 MR. COATES: Especially thanks to the Ingram FFA Ag 14 Issues Team. They did an excellent job. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Harris has a mighty fine group 16 of young people. 17 MR. COATES: They really are. Mighty fine group of 18 young people, and they belong to us, you know. Thank you 19 very much. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's move to Item 6 on 21 our agenda, which is a 9:20 timed item; consider, discuss, 22 and take appropriate action for the final approval regarding 23 naming Wise Lane East, a private road off Bear Creek Road in 24 the Staacke Ranch Subdivision, and release the Frost Bank 25 Letter of Credit Number 26519-S in the amount of $31,000, all 12-13-10 38 1 located in Precinct 3. Mr. Odom? 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Thank you. And I do wish 3 that horny toad lizards were back. DDT took care of that 4 when I was a kid. Took care of those red ants, too. Dr. Jay 5 Wise has received a final approval for the revision of plat, 6 Staacke Ranch Subdivision, under Court Order 31808, July the 7 26th, 2010. Under this revision, Dr. Wise is required to 8 build a road and a cul-de-sac, which construction for this 9 road is in progress. Dr. Wise has applied through the 911 10 office, and that has been approved. The privately maintained 11 road has been completed now and inspected, and passes county 12 specs and regulations for a country lane. Since this road 13 will be a private road, privately maintained, with no need 14 for one-year maintenance bond, at this time we ask the Court 15 for their final approval to name the private road Wise Lane 16 East, and to release the Frost Bank Letter of Credit Number 17 265619-S, as in Sierra, in the amount of $31,000, Precinct 3. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 21 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Question or 22 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 23 your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12-13-10 39 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 3 Item 7. At this time, I will recess the Commissioners Court 4 meeting and convene a public hearing regarding the private 5 road name of JCRV Drive West located in Precinct 4. 6 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:52 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 7 court, as follows:) 8 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public or 10 audience that wishes to be heard with respect to the naming 11 of the private road name of JCRV Drive West located in 12 Precinct 4? Yes, ma'am. Give us your name and address -- 13 MS. CAUTHEN: Lisa Cauthen. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- and tell us what's on your mind. 15 MS. CAUTHEN: Address is 4279 Junction Highway. I 16 have Johnson Creek R.V. Resort, and we needed to name our 17 road so that we could get GPS to pick it up, because my 18 customers can't get to my place because GPS won't pick up 19 4279 Junction Highway. It sends them on the other side of 16 20 down here for some weird reason. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happened to the old 22 days of maps? 23 MS. CAUTHEN: I don't know. People don't use them 24 any more. So, we just needed to name that so that we... 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other member of the 12-13-10 40 1 public or audience that wishes to be heard with respect to 2 that item? Seeing no one else wishing to be recognized, I 3 will close the public hearing with regard to the private road 4 name of JCRV Drive West in Precinct 4. 5 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:54 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 6 reopened.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE TINLEY: And I will open a public hearing 9 with respect to the revision of plat for Lots 9 and 10 of the 10 Ledge Stone Subdivision as set forth in Volume 7, Page 320, 11 Plat Records, and located in Precinct 2. 12 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 9:54 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open 13 court, as follows:) 14 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public 16 that wishes to be heard with respect to the revision of plat 17 for Lots 9 and 10 of the Ledge Stone Subdivision? Seeing no 18 one seeking to be recognized, I will close the public hearing 19 of the revision of plat for Lots 9 and 10 of the Ledge Stone 20 Subdivision. 21 (The public hearing was concluded at 9:54 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was 22 reopened.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners 25 Court meeting, and we'll go to Item 9; to consider, discuss, 12-13-10 41 1 and take appropriate action for the final approval regarding 2 the private road name of JCRV Drive West located in Precinct 3 4. 4 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The Johnson Creek R.V. Resort 5 and Park applied through the 911 office requesting "JCRV 6 Drive West." That -- that has been approved for this road 7 name, so at this time we ask the Court for the final approval 8 of the private road name JCRV Drive West, Precinct 4. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, that meets our 15 road-naming guidelines? Been approved? 16 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, went through the whole 18 process. 19 MR. ODOM: Went through the whole thing. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And everybody went through 21 it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Other question or discussion? All 24 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12-13-10 42 1 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. We'll go to 4 Item 10; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on 5 request from the Kerrville Youth Baseball and Softball 6 Association to help maintain the property it leases from Kerr 7 County. Mr. Grimes? Mr. Robertson? 8 MR. ROBERTSON: Morning. 9 MR. GRIMES: Morning. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make sure we have plenty of 11 security around here with these two guys together. 12 MR. GRIMES: I'm a safety officer for Little 13 League, so we'll be all right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 15 MR. GRIMES: Here is four pamphlets for y'all. 16 Johnny Grimes; I'm the safety officer for Kerrville Little 17 League this year. Doug Robertson is president of Little 18 League. We took over this year on the board. We're here 19 today to ask for the County's help. What we'd propose to you 20 is just like a wish list that we have talked about in our 21 meetings with Little League, and whenever we, as a board, 22 show up -- there's 9 or 10 of us, and as you can see on the 23 list, it's a little overwhelming to get everything 24 accomplished by March or February, say. So, the ones that 25 are in bold print are the more important ones. Obviously, 12-13-10 43 1 there's things there that doesn't apply to the county, like 2 hooks for the helmets and so forth, which -- which we as a 3 board could handle. But there's things like the roads, the 4 lights, the -- the mowing, the weed-eating, and if you look 5 at what we have to get this accomplished, it's almost 6 impossible to get that done without parents' help. Which, 7 you know, as business owners and -- and parents -- Doug sends 8 his crews out there and pays for it out of his pocket, just 9 to mow the fields where -- where 450 kids can play. 10 Little League is well recognized in the community, 11 and we feel as a board that we need to get it up to par and 12 -- and speed to -- to have it for our Kerr County and 13 surrounding area. When we drive by Boerne, we look over to 14 the left, and it seems like it's maintained by somebody. We 15 don't know who it is. But as a Little League board, as you 16 can -- as you can tell, it's just -- there's too much that we 17 -- we have to offer, and with us having 2,000 in our 18 operating expense, just to get a -- a light pole fixed or 19 water run or anything of that nature is just -- that would 20 wipe it out right there. Therefore -- there are sponsorships 21 that come in, but very minimal. And the fee for playing 22 baseball is very minimal as well, or softball. So, it's for 23 boys and girls, so it affects a lot of the community. Not so 24 much just the players itself, but their parents, grandparents 25 that come out, concession stands, so forth. 12-13-10 44 1 So, there's a -- it is very overwhelming. We are 2 asking for the County's help to -- to maintain it, to get it 3 going. Not for y'all to take over, by no means, but just -- 4 at least mowing the fields and grading the road, and -- and 5 bringing in fill, maybe. There's potholes out there in the 6 driveway when you pull in. The -- the gates almost on every 7 field, there's not a -- a gate one that's not leaning or 8 latch broke or something of that nature. And for us as 9 parents to go try to fix something like that, we'd spend half 10 our time driving back to Lowe's getting a nut or bolt or 11 wrench or something of that nature. It's just -- we're here 12 to ask for y'all's help. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you had any discussions with 14 our Maintenance Supervisor or the supervisor for the 15 community service workers and the various probation 16 departments -- 17 MR. GRIMES: Yes. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as to what they might be able to 19 fit into their schedule that's permissible under the law? 20 MR. GRIMES: Definitely. I talked to Will Brown, 21 which is part of the Adult Probation. He has offered some 22 help with mowing the ditch, trimming the trees, getting a lot 23 of that trash out of there, especially from the flood. I 24 talked to Tim Bollier. He's the one that asked us to come in 25 front of the Commissioners Court to -- I don't want to go 12-13-10 45 1 around, you know, the back door of it. We want to make it 2 legitimate where you say yes, the County can help us. I 3 mean, Tim is willing to help us. He just needs y'all's 4 permission to -- to pull the trigger on it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's a smart guy. He's a 6 smart guy. 7 MR. GRIMES: He likes his job. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about -- yes, he does. 9 You know, there's things in here -- you have the words 10 "infield hose." I know what that is. But do you need -- 11 MR. ROBERTSON: That would fall on us. That would 12 fall on us. Basically, what we're looking for from the 13 County is help in -- in the maintenance end of things, with 14 the driveways or the parking areas, and the areas between the 15 actual fields themselves. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is all mowed, I 17 noticed this weekend. 18 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, it's getting there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everything looks really nice 20 out there. 21 MR. ROBERTSON: Getting there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just keep doing that and 23 we're all right. 24 MR. GRIMES: From the road looking in, it looks 25 presentable, but once you get into the interior part of it, 12-13-10 46 1 there's a lot to be accomplished. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The bold stuff is what 3 you're asking us to do? 4 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, the bold stuff is the things 5 that can be done without any additional expense. But -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is the list that 7 you're asking us to do? 8 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, you've got it in your hands. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The whole thing? 10 MR. ROBERTSON: No -- well, sure, do the whole 11 thing. (Laughter.) We would love that. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Infield hose. We're back to 13 the infield hose. (Laughter.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the way to approach it 15 is for y'all to get with Tim and see what's reasonable that 16 he's even capable of doing that's not going to require us 17 buying equipment and stuff. I don't -- 'cause I don't think 18 we're going to get there. And then -- and look at it. I 19 mean, I think that -- obviously, I've talked to Doug a little 20 bit about this already. And 'cause of my -- most of the 21 Court knows that I was president of Little League for 10 22 years, and somehow ended up president of Comfort again right 23 now. But, you know, I think that there's a lot of things 24 that the County can do, but I think it's more of the general 25 type work. I think it's the -- I think Leonard sent a crew 12-13-10 47 1 out there to do some parking lot work last year or over the 2 summer. Those types of things can be done, probably. And 3 some of the mowing outside the fields, some of those types of 4 things. And, you know, look at some of the big maintenance 5 projects and kind of get them working through a budget down 6 the road. But I think probably the first step is to get with 7 Tim; let Tim come back to us with a more narrowed-down list. 8 MR. GRIMES: Right, be no problem at all. We're 9 not asking y'all to buy any more equipment. We just need 10 some manpower to help. 11 MR. ROBERTSON: Appreciate your time. 12 MR. GRIMES: All right. Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 14 MR. ROBERTSON: Thank you. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Appreciate your 16 interest in the Little League program. Let's move to our 17 9:45 item, first one. Item 11, to consider, discuss, take 18 appropriate action concerning a resolution authorizing County 19 Judge to represent Kerr County in a joint application for the 20 City of Kerrville for a grant from the Texas Water 21 Development Board for flood protection planning; to enter 22 into an interlocal agreement with the City of Kerrville if 23 awarded, and committing funds and/or in-kind services to the 24 study. Mr. Odom, and I believe Mr. Hewitt is here also. 25 MR. ODOM: Is John here? All right. 12-13-10 48 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is Precinct 1 listed on 3 there? 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is Precinct 1 -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Most of it's to be done in 7 Precinct 1. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. ODOM: We had a meeting with John and the Judge 10 and myself December the 6th, 2010, at the Road and Bridge 11 office and discussed the County's participation in the grant 12 application for further study in the Zone A floodplain areas. 13 We have discussed this once before; I've come to the Court 14 about a study in the future. The City of Kerrville is 15 applying for a flood protection planning grant that would 16 further study the Zone A floodplain areas. Zone A is an area 17 within the 100-year floodplain without base flood elevations 18 established. The City of Kerrville has selected some areas 19 of interest in Precinct 1 within the ETJ; Rattlesnake Creek, 20 Quinlan Creek, and Town Creek. Further studies of these 21 areas would put these areas into a Zone AE, which means it 22 has established base flood elevations. We've included a map 23 in the packet. This is something that I think this would 24 essentially -- I believe John would go out 2 miles, I 25 believe, if memory serves me right, past the city limits. 12-13-10 49 1 Which puts him into the county, which would help us in 2 floodplain. Establish these areas that feed into the city, 3 which has a problem with flooding, just like we do in the 4 county, but this would help us to identify those problems, 5 and maybe mitigate some of the of problems they're having 6 with the city. So, at this time, if there's any questions, 7 I'll be more than happy to answer what I know about 8 floodplain, and John is here to answer any questions 9 specifically about the grant. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said -- you made a 11 couple of comments that the City desires to do this and the 12 City desires to do that. Why doesn't the City go ahead and 13 do it? I mean, why -- what is the benefit for Kerr County -- 14 the citizens of Kerr County? How does it benefit the 15 citizens of Kerr County? 16 MR. HEWITT: First of all, my name is John Hewitt. 17 The City is going to be going after the grant also, and 18 they're going to -- let me back up. The Water Development 19 Board -- the Texas Water Development Board is going to give 20 out a million dollars in grants this next year, and what they 21 do is they match the local participation by 50 percent, so 22 whatever the local community puts in, they match that. The 23 -- the last budget that I've seen was $300,000 for the study, 24 and the -- the City is putting in 140,000, and they're 25 requesting 20,000 from the County. So, the majority of the 12-13-10 50 1 work is in the city, and the majority of the benefit is for 2 the city. The benefit for the county is that those -- those 3 creeks, Quinlan Creek, Town Creek, and Rattlesnake Creek, 4 would be designated AE zones where the base flood elevation 5 would be defined. The County would not be getting as much 6 benefit as the City, but at this time, the City's kicking in 7 quite a bit more money. 8 Last year we talked -- and we had input from the 9 Commissioners on which creeks they would like to be studied, 10 and we talked to the State about getting a grant last year. 11 In fact, we had input from some of the residents that wanted 12 us to study specific creeks in addition to what the 13 Commissioners had suggested. The problem last year was that 14 the grants are based on economic damages, and last year the 15 creeks that we identified did not have a lot of economic 16 damages. The grant that the City's going after is able to 17 demonstrate a lot of economic damages, because it went 18 through the city and damaged a lot of structures. So what -- 19 what this request is for the County is for them to cooperate 20 with the City for the portions that are outside the city. 21 It's a long answer; I don't know if that answered your 22 specific question. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it kind of did. Now, 24 it's not -- sounded like to me that it was all in the ETJ; 25 who has the authority here and who has the authority there. 12-13-10 51 1 When you start talking about the words "committing funds," 2 then I would like to know, you know, what are we going to 3 get? Are we committing funds for the City to do a program? 4 Or -- you know, you see what I'm saying? 5 MR. HEWITT: Yeah. And the benefit -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I recommended Rattlesnake 7 Creek and those other creeks for y'all to look at. Does our 8 in-kind services match? 9 MR. HEWITT: You can use all in-kind services if 10 you'd like. You could use surveying or community outreach or 11 public notifications, so it can be any combination of cash or 12 in-kind services. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to be a 14 combination, I believe, is what was proposed. Leonard is 15 going to -- he has funds available to help pay for what's not 16 able to be done in in-kind services. Is that right, Judge? 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That was my understanding, yeah. To 18 the extent we can, obviously, we're going to use in-kind 19 services to make up the equivalency of our maximum $20,000 20 contribution. To the extent we can't use that, why, we would 21 be obligated up to whatever the difference is. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we're fairly confident that 23 we can get most of it at least through in-kind? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: A substantial portion of it. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Big portion. 12-13-10 52 1 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that there's been any 2 formal calculation of -- of the probable amount, but -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if there's any additional, 4 the funds would come from where? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard has it in his flood control 6 budget. 7 MR. ODOM: They would come through my budget, 8 right. And we're looking at July, August. And by that time, 9 I will have a firmer hand on what I have left, and what we 10 can do in-house, we'll do. And there will be some 11 expenditures, but I feel comfortable that I can find that 12 money in the items that are still out there. That's toward 13 the end of the budget. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's -- that could come 15 out of your designated fund for flood control, could it not? 16 MR. ODOM: Well, I think you only have $5,000, off 17 the top of my head, 5,000 to 6,000. So, part of that could 18 be used if we don't have a flood or something of that nature. 19 And remember, too, that I still have reserve. If I really 20 got hit with something, I have enough reserves that I 21 certainly could touch that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. ODOM: So I feel confident that it will not 24 hurt us. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What will this interlocal 12-13-10 53 1 agreement with the City look like? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's ready to give it to you. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge "Tinsley"? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks like several trees lost 5 their life over that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I saw a note come through 7 the other day addressed to "Patricia Tinsley." So -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: I saw one come through, too, from 9 someone that should have known the difference. But, 10 obviously, they didn't. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what is the 12 interlocal agreement going to look like? I mean, we agree to 13 do what with the City? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: To participate in the grant 15 application. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And, I mean, we're 17 not getting down to, "You do 30 percent and the City will do 18 80 percent" or any of that kind of stuff, in the agreement? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the initial request that 20 we've got is to participate in the grant application and to 21 commit funding and/or in-kind services in the aggregate 22 equivalent of not more than $20,000. The interlocal 23 agreement would be something that would follow on once 24 awarded, if awarded. And we don't know whether it's going to 25 be awarded or not, so obviously, we don't have the interlocal 12-13-10 54 1 agreement before us now. If -- if we're awarded the grant, 2 we would then be in a position to have to sit down and -- and 3 negotiate that interlocal agreement with the City of 4 Kerrville in connection with the award. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was the estimated cost 6 if we went out and did this survey on our own of the exact 7 same areas? 8 MR. HEWITT: In order to delineate the floodplain 9 and define the base flood elevation, the cost is roughly 10 $11,000 a linear mile. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many linear miles did you 12 estimate? 13 MR. HEWITT: I think it's six on the three separate 14 creeks. 15 MR. ODOM: And this is outside the city limits, in 16 our -- in our area of responsibility. So, it is a win-win. 17 Even though we're participating with the City, I mean, it 18 helps us, and I think it will greater benefit the county. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do too. Going to cost us a 20 lot more to do it the other way on our own. This way we get 21 the City to apply for the largest portion of the grant, and 22 only commit a small amount of actual dollars, which will be a 23 whole lot less than if we just bailed off into it and did it 24 on our own. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: That's the theory. 12-13-10 55 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Upon the recommendation of 2 the Road and Bridge Administrator, I -- I move that we 3 approve item 1.11. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 6 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Further question 7 or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 8 signify by raising your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move 13 to Item 12, a 9:45 timed item, a presentation from the Kerr 14 County Historical Commission regarding Verde Creek Road. 15 Ms. Francelle Collins. 16 MS. COLLINS: Julie Mosty is going to go first. 17 MS. LEONARD: Leonard. Hello, I'm Julie Leonard of 18 the Kerrville/Kerr County Historical Commission, and I thank 19 you for letting me address the Court. I'm here to represent 20 the Historical Commission's opposition to the vacating, 21 abandoning, and discontinuing of a portion of Verde Creek 22 Road. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Just a moment. The agenda item 24 calls for a presentation from the Kerr County Historical 25 Commission regarding the Verde Creek Road. 12-13-10 56 1 MS. LEONARD: So -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, that's the agenda item. 3 MS. LEONARD: I thought it was to discuss -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: There is a public hearing on the 5 next agenda item, which follows this item, but that's not the 6 item I've just called. 7 MS. LEONARD: Okay. Let me go to this, then. We 8 recognize the Camp Verde area as one of the most historic 9 areas in Kerr County. Camp Verde is associated with the 10 Penateka Comanches, the Civil War camel experiment, a Civil 11 War prison camp. It was a route for cattle drives to the 12 Great Western Trail. It was a route for wagon trains from 13 Bandera and points south and west to the railroad in Center 14 Point. Texas Rangers also were stationed there. It was also 15 visited by such notables as Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, 16 Polocarpo Rodriguez, Big Foot Wallace. The list of people 17 associated with the area is impressive and long. And 18 Francelle Collins -- is Paul here? 19 MR. PARKS: I'm here. 20 MS. LEONARD: Paul's here. And Paul Parks, who is 21 our marker chairman who's just done some -- just worked on 22 the Penateka Comanche marker that is being funded by the 23 Texas Historical Commission, has the map and more information 24 on the area. 25 MR. PARKS: I'm Paul Parks, the chair of the 12-13-10 57 1 historical markers, and I've got some maps to give to the -- 2 to y'all, and plus one for your record -- secretary. And 3 first off, I appreciate y'all's courtesies that y'all have 4 shown us in the past, Your Honor and honorable persons. On 5 this map here, this was out of a book that was published in 6 1855, and the title of the book -- this is over in the 7 Butt-Holdsworth Library. And the title of the book was "The 8 History of Texas From the First Settlement in 1685." And 9 inserted in the book is this -- is this map that I've given 10 you, which shows you the Apaches or the mountain Comanches. 11 This map was drawn somewhere in the era of 1805, and it has 12 the Old Comanche Trail going across from Nacogdoches all the 13 way over to this area, which intersects at that point with 14 the Old Spanish Trail that takes you from -- from Laredo all 15 the way up to San Saba Mission, going through San Antonio 16 area. These were -- this was the route that the -- the early 17 Spanish took going up to these missions that they had 18 outlined, and this goes further from there; it goes all the 19 way on up into New Mexico and the Albuquerque and Santa Fe 20 missions that were up in those areas. The Old Comanche Trial 21 was the one that they used -- the Comanches used going across 22 to get trade goods with the eastern -- eastern settlements in 23 Texas, over in the Nacogdoches area. And then, of course, 24 they -- they went on up later; they used this same OST to go 25 on up to San -- San Saba Mission, because they were kind of 12-13-10 58 1 in a good trading position with the -- the Spaniards that 2 were -- that were running -- actually running this San Saba 3 Mission. So, we also just recently moved the county -- 4 the -- actually, TexDOT just moved the marker from out here, 5 the grant marker that we put in in, I think, 1936, and moved 6 it out to this Camp Verde park area right there. That's on 7 the highway park area, right there by this little -- right by 8 the creek, Verde Creek. And we also have this Penateka 9 marker that will be located in that same little park area, so 10 we've got a lot of history just kind of engrossed right 11 around that area, right around the Camp Verde Store. And -- 12 and, of course, we'd like to kind of preserve that so that it 13 will influence people to come to visit Kerr County, and this 14 is really, you know, quite a tourist thing for -- for us to 15 publicize, and we would like to keep it maintained and -- by 16 not closing off this road right near this park. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's not the agenda item. Let's 18 stay on track here. 19 MR. PARKS: Okay. Yes, sir. But this is -- this 20 is of historical benefit, is what I'm trying to approach 21 there. Thank you very much. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Any more 23 participants in connection with Item 12, the presentation 24 from Kerr County Historical Commission regarding Verde Creek 25 Road? 12-13-10 59 1 MR. JIMENEZ: If I may, my name -- 2 JUDGE TINLEY: You are Mr. Filipe Jimenez? 3 MR. JIMENEZ: Felipe Jimenez. I'm here 4 representing the Christopher Properties and Camelot Hills 5 Group. The Christopher Properties owns the adjoining land on 6 either side of the -- of the road, and Camelot Hills Group 7 owns the Camp Verde General Store. I know that this -- we 8 are not in the public hearing; we're in the presentation part 9 of the agenda, but do I want to say that we are very 10 committed to the historical significance of the area, to the 11 point where our company has spent literally hundreds of 12 thousands of dollars over the last seven to eight years 13 promoting the area. Now, we understand, and we're very 14 respectful of the history there. We know that there's -- on 15 the road in question here is the old -- is the old county 16 road which is part of the Old Spanish Trail. And we -- I've 17 got another speaker that can address the more historical 18 aspects of the -- of the road. 19 But, certainly, the Old Spanish Trail, while there 20 are certain maps that show where the trail goes, there is 21 some interpretation, if I can put it that way, to where -- 22 exactly where the Spanish Trail was. You know, there may be 23 a segment of the road that is part of the Spanish Trail; 24 perhaps all of it, perhaps part of it. We could certainly 25 address more of the more specific aspects of what our 12-13-10 60 1 proposal is in the public hearing, but I just want to say 2 that we are fully in support of -- of honoring the history of 3 the area, and we are certainly willing to work with the 4 historical -- with the Kerr County Historical Commission on 5 resolving any differences that we may have and clearing up 6 any misunderstandings. But we could certainly address that 7 in the next part of the agenda. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jimenez. Appreciate 9 it. Anyone else wish to be heard with respect to the 10 presentation? Let's go to Item 13, if we might, scheduled to 11 be a public hearing concerning the roadway in that area. 12 It's my understanding that a question has risen about the 13 propriety of the -- how the agenda item is worded, and that 14 in order for us to have a public hearing in order to 15 specifically address that particular issue, there would have 16 to be a new agenda item, and therefore a new public hearing. 17 Is my understanding correct, Mr. Henneke? 18 MR. HENNEKE: Judge, we put the wrong road on the 19 agenda for the public hearing, and so I don't think that 20 anyone is actually here to testify on the road that there's 21 been a public hearing that's been noticed for. So, to be -- 22 to be correct, we need to make sure that we identify the 23 correct road for a public hearing so that the public has 24 notice of what this Court is seeking to hear input on. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I believe the notice was 12-13-10 61 1 correct. It's -- the agenda language is correct, but it's 2 the same, basically, effect. It's a confusing -- 3 MR. HENNEKE: Notice on the agenda item. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Needs to be the Camp Verde 5 Road, not the Verde Creek Road. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What we do here is governed by this 7 agenda. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: And we're going to have to re-agenda 10 in order to hold that public hearing to address the issue 11 that's obviously before us. So, there will have to be a -- a 12 new agenda item; therefore, new notice of public hearing and 13 so forth. In the interim, based upon what I just heard from 14 the owners, Mr. Jimenez and his folks, it occurs to me 15 that -- that there's ample opportunity for -- for all parties 16 in interest to have a sit-down and discuss this thing in some 17 depth. Because it will have to be re-agendaed, and I assume 18 that the earliest it can be done, it would be placed on our 19 next agenda for late December. But if those discussions are 20 capable of occurring, I would encourage them. Therefore, 21 let's -- let me make sure -- the participation forms I have 22 are with respect to the roadway, except as indicated. 23 Let's move on to our 10 o'clock item, Item 14; to 24 consider, discuss, take appropriate action for the Tax 25 Assessor/Collector's office to be open on December 31st, 12-13-10 62 1 2010, a scheduled holiday, to allow for the end-of-the-year 2 tax payments, and for employees to take as a floating 3 holiday. Ms. Bolin? 4 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. December 31st is the next to 5 the biggest day that we have to collect taxes. I came before 6 y'all last year. We were open. We collected over a million 7 dollars on the 31st. I'm requesting that we be open again 8 this year, and we take a floating holiday as we did last 9 year. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 13 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thank you for adjusting for, 15 you know, the ease and helping the public. 16 MS. BOLIN: Very welcome. 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good idea. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion 19 on the motion? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde? 22 MS. HYDE: How long of a floating holiday? How 23 long do they have to take that floating holiday, sirs? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Bolin? 25 MS. BOLIN: I'm sorry? 12-13-10 63 1 JUDGE TINLEY: What period of time did you allow 2 this prior year to allow your employees to designate that 3 floating holiday? 4 MS. BOLIN: They took it off after the end of 5 January, between January -- the end of January and the middle 6 of March. Because January is such a busy month for us. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: 45 days beginning February 1 through 8 the middle of March, approximately? 9 MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I see the Sheriff with a 12 frown on his face, but -- and I think there is an issue. 13 This is an unbudgeted expense to the county in a number of 14 different areas, 'cause we have to have courthouse security 15 and other things, but I think we just really look at this, 16 really, as -- in the future, I think our job is to assist the 17 public, and maybe we just don't give the 31st off as a 18 holiday in future. That's all. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Except it falls on Saturday 20 this time. 21 MS. HYDE: Right, falls on Saturday. Doesn't it 22 fall on Saturday this -- falls on Saturday? Is that what you 23 said? 24 AUDIENCE: Friday. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is on Friday, isn't it? 12-13-10 64 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 31st is Friday, isn't it? 2 MS. HYDE: It's a Friday. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a holiday that we 5 gave. 6 MS. BOLIN: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So in the future, we should -- 8 if it happens again, we should give the Monday after the 9 holiday. Which is not very convenient to our employees, but 10 I think our responsibility is more to the public. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on 12 that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's go to 18 Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to 19 appoint as a new commissioner Jeannie Schladoer to Emergency 20 Services District Number 2. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is one of two; I'll be 22 bringing another one forward shortly. We have a member that 23 is getting off the ESD, and this is a replacement. I move 24 approval. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12-13-10 65 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 2 approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in 3 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to 8 Item 16; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on 9 resolution thanking Kay Hayes for her service on the Library 10 Advisory Board. Commissioner Letz? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. I put this on the agenda. 12 Kay Hayes is on the -- or has been serving on the Library 13 Advisory Board. Her term is coming up, and she will not be 14 reappointed. There's, I think, two terms you can serve. Let 15 me just read the resolution into the record. "Resolution of 16 Kerr County Commissioners Court thanking Kay Hayes for her 17 service on the Butt-Holdsworth Library Advisory Board. 18 Whereas, the Butt-Holdsworth Library is an integral part of 19 our community; and whereas, the Library Advisory Board serves 20 a valuable function by providing community input to the 21 operations of the Butt-Holdsworth Library; and whereas, Kay 22 Hayes was appointed to the Library Advisory Board on October 23 11, 2005, and was appointed vice chair of the Library 24 Advisory Board in January of 2010; and whereas, Kay Hayes has 25 served with dedication, and will continue to assist the 12-13-10 66 1 community and library by serving as director of the Mary 2 Elizabeth Holdsworth Library Foundation. Now, therefore, be 3 it resolved that on the 13th day of December, 2010, Kerr 4 County Commissioners Court would like to offer our sincere 5 thanks to Kay Hayes for her service to the Butt-Holdsworth 6 Library by volunteering to serve on the Library Advisory 7 Board." I make that a motion to approve such resolution. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 10 approval of the resolution as indicated. Question or 11 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 12 your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why don't 17 we take about a 15-minute recess. 18 (Recess taken from 10:30 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if 21 we might, and go back to Item 17; consider, discuss, take 22 appropriate action regarding the rental of the new outdoor 23 arena at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. Commissioner 24 Oehler? 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we have basically 12-13-10 67 1 finished, except for the electricity not being quite there. 2 But, you know, it's almost there. And -- and we -- Jody's 3 had some inquires about rental, and we don't have an 4 established fee for that rental rate. So that's why it's on 5 the agenda, for us to talk about what we think it ought to 6 bring and how much to rent it out for. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Have you done any research, obtained 8 any quotes or ideas from other similar facilities, other 9 counties that have those types of facilities? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I haven't. Honestly, I 11 haven't, but I do believe we can come up with some figure 12 that's close to the amount that we charge for the indoor, 13 temporarily, until we figure out whether, you know, we need 14 to increase that. We need to come up with some figure that 15 would -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do we charge for the 17 indoor? 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where's Jody? I think -- 19 isn't it 500 a day? 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Refer to her. She handles all 21 those. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where is Jody? 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Drag her in here. 24 MR. BOLLIER: 500. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 500. 12-13-10 68 1 JUDGE TINLEY: For a full day? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For a full day. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much for -- 4 MR. BOLLIER: Here she comes. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- Jody, is there an 6 hourly rate associated with that? 7 MS. GRINSTEAD: We just do a day or a half day. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Day or half day. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the half day? It's 10 not half, is it? 11 MS. GRINSTEAD: 250. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's 250? I would say 250 or 13 300 at least. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say 300 to basically -- 15 JUDGE TINLEY: For a full day? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For a full day, and 150 for 17 half. Seems like a reasonable amount. I make such motion. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as 20 indicated, to set the rental rate for the new outdoor arena 21 at $300 for a full day, $150 for a half day. Question or 22 discussion on the motion? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is kind of to get 24 something set, so that when somebody, you know, calls in, so 25 Jody has a number to start with. I think that's fair, and we 12-13-10 69 1 can reevaluate that as time goes on and see if it needs to be 2 adjusted. Jody can bring it back to -- or bring it to our 3 attention and we can bring it back. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we're going to have it, we 5 ought to go ahead and start utilizing it and trying to get 6 some money for it. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: If it's available for use, let's 8 crank it up. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is. It's ready for use, 10 you know, for just -- you know, it's almost ready to be used 11 with power, so you have a P.A. system and all that sort of 12 thing. As soon as D.W. gets the -- the lines run and the 13 boxes installed. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Tim, you had a comment? 15 MR. BOLLIER: I was just going to reply to what 16 Commissioner Oehler was saying. The pipe is there. David 17 Wahrmund -- or D.W. Electric is supposed to be there today to 18 run the electricity in there, and as soon as they get the 19 electricity run, the new electricity, then KPUB's going to 20 come in and run their part of it, which is just a little old 21 slack span of, like, 150 feet to 200 feet. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 23 MR. BOLLIER: And it ought to be ready by the -- I 24 would say it'll be ready by the end of the week. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's not going to include 12-13-10 70 1 lights? 2 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. 4 MR. BOLLIER: I do have -- I did get them, in the 5 process of running all that new electricity, to run enough 6 wire down there for future use for the lights in the arena, 7 to where we don't have to do this again, to where they can 8 come right straight out of the box that's at the concession 9 -- not the concession stand, but the announcer's stand, where 10 they run it underneath to where they can come out of there 11 and run electricity. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or comment 13 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 14 raising your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to 19 Item 18; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to 20 address possibility of prohibiting the sale or use of 21 restricted fireworks; i.e., skyrockets with sticks and 22 missiles with fins, in any portion of the unincorporated area 23 of Kerr County pursuant to Local Government Code, Section 24 352.051, for the December fireworks season. I put this on 25 the agenda 'cause we're approaching Christmas/New Year's. 12-13-10 71 1 Anybody have an interest in -- in putting that into effect? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I do. 3 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I do too. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is really dry out there. 5 I hate to restrict folks from commerce and making money, 6 making a living. However, it is really getting dangerously 7 dry. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We do have a fire going on 9 right now that the Sheriff told me about a while ago on the 10 west end. First one we've had. So, you know, I hate to 11 restrict that too, but, you know, it's just so -- we haven't 12 had rain in a while, and it doesn't look like there's any in 13 the forecast. I move that we -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For agenda item 1.18. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm excited about this. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Motion -- motion and second 18 to prohibit the sale or use of restricted fireworks, that 19 being skyrockets with sticks and missiles with fins, during 20 the Christmas/New Year's fireworks season. Question or 21 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 12-13-10 72 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We'll move to Item 2 19; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to take 3 down old water tank, cap old well, dig up/remove the old 4 butane tank in the ground, reroute existing main water line 5 and rework water lines to be above ground, and build 6 insulated building around those water lines at Hill Country 7 Youth Exhibit Center. Mr. Bollier, you got a whole bunch of 8 stuff rolled into one there. 9 MR. BOLLIER: I tried, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 MR. BOLLIER: We had some problems out there last 12 -- last week, and we were trying to reduce some water lines. 13 And the butane tank that's been there for years and years, 14 it's out of the ground already. I had to dig it out because 15 it was in our way. I had no -- I had no choice, because of 16 where the water lines were run. The butane tank was -- water 17 lines were over top of it, so I had to take that out so I 18 didn't have to mess with it. So, that's already out of the 19 ground. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Settled that part. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Is this one of those deals that it's 22 better to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission? 23 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. I'm asking for forgiveness 24 right now on that one. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 12-13-10 73 1 MR. BOLLIER: And over there, we had a problem over 2 there where they took down the old outdoor arena, and it's -- 3 what they did, Road and Bridge was grading it to make it 4 better, and they hit that water line, the main water line. 5 It's not but about 8 inches underneath the ground at this 6 time, and it runs across there. And we can't leave it like 7 that, because I don't know what the future's going to bring 8 back over there and what we're going to do back over there. 9 So, I just want to reroute that back down by that yellow 10 fence that separates the polo field from the Extension 11 Office, and bring that down and then back down by the road. 12 And there's -- I think there's only one problem we have over 13 there, is some sewer lines over there, and I think they're 5 14 to 6 feet under the ground. I think that's what Commissioner 15 Oehler said. And I'm not going to put the water line in the 16 ground but about 24 to 30 inches. And I want to bring it 17 back exactly where it's at now, except I want to bring it up 18 to where my cutoff valves are up so far, and I can insulate 19 that and put me a little building around it like a well 20 house, to where if we have a problem, I've got three valves 21 there and I can turn off whatever I need instead of having to 22 turn off the whole thing. As it sets right now, I have to 23 turn off all of it. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Not going to be getting into any 25 telephone or fiberoptic-type cable areas, are we? 12-13-10 74 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Please, no. 2 MR. BOLLIER: No, sir, that's all at 27. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can call 800-DIG ahead of 4 time, correct? 5 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, DIG-TESS. DIG-TESS. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim, can you go over -- explain 8 where are you going to -- where's the line going to be 9 rerouted to? 10 MR. BOLLIER: You know how the Extension Office is 11 when you come in, and you've got that yellow fence that comes 12 across there like this? That yellow fence that divides the 13 Extension Office from that -- would be the east -- no, that 14 would be the west side. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Southeast side. 16 MR. BOLLIER: Southeast side. That yellow fence 17 comes there, and that's kind of where they go in there to the 18 Arts and Crafts Fair through the one gate that's right there. 19 Well, see, our water comes over -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's it come from? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Our main cutoff is from -- 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Riverside. 23 MR. BOLLIER: -- Riverside. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comes in from Riverside? 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. And I just want to come 12-13-10 75 1 down this yellow fence, and then when we cut over there by 2 the building where that road comes down on the southwest 3 side, or whatever side you want to call that, just stay on 4 the -- the southwest side of that road and come down. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where it comes up from 6 Riverside through the Arts and Crafts -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's right there -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the -- 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not at the Arts and 10 Crafts; it's almost at the corner. 11 MR. BOLLIER: The corner. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Where the Arts and Crafts 13 deal is. 14 MR. BOLLIER: And it comes on the south side. I 15 mean -- yeah, it will be the south side of the Extension 16 Office. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. BOLLIER: It comes right there by that back 19 door, and then it cuts across there. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cuts across towards the east? 21 MR. BOLLIER: Where the old outdoor arena -- how it 22 laid -- it laid right down beside that fence. Like I said, 23 it's not that deep in the ground. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: I assume if all of this work is 25 approved, and you relay these lines, you're going to map 12-13-10 76 1 those out so that -- 2 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. Well, there was three or 3 four lines that came off of that existing main water line, 4 that 2-inch water line, and we cut -- we had to cut the water 5 off and go in there and cut those lines out, because they're 6 not in use any more, that went over to the outdoor arena. 7 That's when we discovered all the other, as we were digging 8 it up. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: But we're going to know about all of 11 them we got out there that are active now? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Oh, yes, sir. They'll be marked, 13 believe me. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 15 MR. BOLLIER: They'll be marked. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And where are you going to stub 17 it up with a valve? Where that is stub-up going to be? 18 MR. BOLLIER: It's going to be right there where 19 the water tank is now. The old well sits here, and 20 there's -- as you're looking at that from the road facing the 21 west, it'll be to the left of that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any -- I guess what 23 I'm asking, you're still putting it out in the middle of that 24 area kind of by the barbecue -- 25 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, it's going to be right to 12-13-10 77 1 the -- it will be right to the side of that barbecue pit. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way we can get that 3 off to a -- 4 MR. BOLLIER: Neutral? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- kind of a more -- not -- 6 central location? Because, I mean, at some point -- 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Out of the way. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. That's either going to 9 be used for a parking lot, or something will happen there at 10 some point. And rather than trying to -- having to redo 11 these lines twice, if we could get it somewhere maybe up 12 towards the entrance into the Arts and Crafts -- or I don't 13 know. I just think we need to make sure we try to do what we 14 can to not have stuff out in the middle of that open -- that 15 area where those barbecue pits are, where the wells are, the 16 storage pit is. Whether we can -- locating it out there 17 better may not be possible right now. 18 MR. BOLLIER: It's going to be kind of -- it's 19 possible. I mean, it can be done, but you are going to cause 20 us a whole lot more work. I can get that -- if I put it -- 21 if I put it way out there like you're talking about over 22 there by the Arts and Crafts place over there, you're talking 23 about running a whole lot of lines from the line that goes in 24 to the Extension Office -- I mean the -- the -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hog barn. 12-13-10 78 1 MR. BOLLIER: -- hog barn, and then the exhibit 2 hall there. Those are two separate lines. So, you're 3 talking about taking them 200, 300 feet over there. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't you just put it 5 right as close to the existing slab at the barbecue pit? Is 6 that what you're trying to do? 7 MR. BOLLIER: That's what I'm trying to do. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 'Cause that would be more out 9 of the way than the way it is now. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 MR. BOLLIER: And that would be -- 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's probably not going to 13 be torn down. I don't know that I want to get hung from the 14 nearest tree for tearing down that barbecue pit. That was 15 built by somebody that I don't remember. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that's fine. 17 Just -- we need to have it somewhere as near to some other 18 structure that's going to be there for at least a while. 19 Then if we do a major change over there -- 'cause that area's 20 going to be primarily parking. It's going to be a lot more 21 parking going to over where that storage tank is and near 22 there. Maybe -- I'd say fence it off a little bit, okay? 23 Just don't have it out in the open left field, please. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And as far as capping the 25 well goes, I suggested that they take and dig -- break the 12-13-10 79 1 slab up around it, around the caisson. Dig down and cut it 2 below ground level, and put a metal plate over the top of it 3 and weld it on, in case we ever want to -- 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Re-enter. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And also, locate that on your 6 little plat of where all your lines are, showing -- you know, 7 have the distance from the barn and get the measurement to 8 show where that is. 9 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get it underground to, you 11 know, where it won't be an issue for parking and whatever. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine, but just -- and I 13 just want to make sure we coordinate that or check with 14 Headwaters so that we're doing that according to state law, 15 whatever we're doing; we're not abandoning it. But just make 16 sure everything we do over there -- make sure that it's done 17 in compliance. 18 MR. BOLLIER: And not the old water well -- I mean 19 the old water tank there. I mean, we're not going to try to 20 save that. When I go to tear it down, I'm going to tear it 21 down. I'm not going to try -- because I think if I try to 22 take it off in those three pieces, I'm just going to tear it 23 up anyway. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good fill. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Sir? 12-13-10 80 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good fill material. 2 MR. BOLLIER: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want it, but it's just 4 good fill material. 5 MR. BOLLIER: I don't have a problem; it's coming 6 down. But it's coming down the -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's been needing to be taken 8 down for a long time. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All this needs to be done, and 10 has been. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why he put all this in 12 one big, long item. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Question. You have either in-house 14 the people to do it, or the funding in your budget to obtain 15 outside assistance to do that? 16 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 MR. BOLLIER: It's going to be in-house, though. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MR. BOLLIER: All I have to do is get the pipe and 21 some valves. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the agenda 23 item. 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 12-13-10 81 1 approval of the agenda item as indicated. Question or 2 discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising 3 your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. We'll go to 8 Item 20, which is to consider, discuss, take appropriate 9 action to declare the butane tank which has been taken out of 10 the ground at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center as surplus. 11 That's the one for which forgiveness was just sought, right? 12 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question 18 or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 19 raising your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 24 MR. BOLLIER: Thank you, sir. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 21; consider, 12-13-10 82 1 discuss, take appropriate action to ratify a mediated 2 agreement between Kerr County and Clint and Amy Tuma, doing 3 business as Hatari Safari. Commissioner Oehler? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll turn it over to Rob. We 5 have -- I think everybody has a copy of the settlement 6 agreement that was mediated, and I'll let him take over from 7 here. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. 9 MR. HENNEKE: Thank you, Commissioner Oehler, 10 Commissioners, Judge. And I understand this is the only 11 agenda item that we're going to have to discuss here with 12 regard to this; that the next agenda item has been withdrawn, 13 I think. Is that correct? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding, yes. 15 MR. HENNEKE: Okay. This lawsuit's been ongoing, 16 as the Court knows. The settlement agreement has been 17 circulated for Commissioners to review. As y'all remember, 18 at the time this case was initiated, Mr. and Mrs. Tuma -- 19 Mrs. Tuma's sitting here to my left -- brought several 20 dangerous wild animals into Kerr County without complying 21 with the registration requirements set forth by the Health 22 and Safety Code. And at the time that they were out there, 23 and approached by Animal Control to register and comply with 24 state law requirements, their position was that they were 25 exempt from the requirements, did not have to do so because 12-13-10 83 1 they weren't subject to the statute. Subsequently, this 2 Court authorized the litigation which -- which commenced. 3 The major issue was whether or not they were exempt from 4 complying with the requirements of the statute. During the 5 course of the litigation, they did apply for a registration 6 permit, but did not meet the requirements and were denied by 7 Animal Control. They did appeal the denial and, in fact, 8 Judge Ragsdale did confirm that they did not meet the 9 requirements for the application that -- that was submitted 10 at the time, and he affirmed that denial after having a trial 11 at J.P. 4. 12 What we have come to basically resolves the pending 13 litigation with regard to their compliance with the 14 requirements. The settlement agreement that's presented to 15 the Court does dismiss the suit with prejudice, meaning that 16 it bars relitigation of those issues by -- by either party. 17 And substantively, it -- in the agreement, Mr. and Mrs. Tuma, 18 quote, agree to comply with the requirements of Chapter 19 822(E) of the Texas Health and Safety Code concerning 20 dangerous wild animals. So, instead of being exempt, they've 21 agreed to comply with the requirements, and that's what the 22 case was, and always was about. So, I'm glad that we've come 23 to a resolution. I point out for the Court that there are 24 some mechanisms -- there's been some questions about some 25 insurance and the caging standards and that, and we've set up 12-13-10 84 1 a mechanism where a neutral third-party qualified by retired 2 District Judge Frank Andrews, who served as the mediator in 3 this case, will give a neutral third-party evaluation as far 4 as the insurance and caging standards, to whether or not they 5 meet -- they comply with the requirements. And if they 6 don't, then there will be 30 days to remedy those -- those 7 deficiencies. 8 So, as far as the current status-quo, which allows 9 for the possession of dangerous wild animals within Kerr 10 County under the requirements of the Dangerous Wild Animal 11 Act and the Health and Safety Code, this has resolved the 12 litigation. The Tumas have agreed to comply with those 13 requirements, and if they comply with those requirements, 14 under the status-quo, then -- then through the 2001 15 Commissioners Court order adopted by this Court, them or 16 anyone else that complies with the statute has agreed to do 17 so. It's unfortunate that we had to have such contested 18 litigation, but at the end, this is a public safety statute, 19 and if these animals are to be allowed to be possessed in 20 Kerr County, then the general public, the neighbors of that 21 community, and everyone else in Kerr County have a right to 22 make sure that the rules and requirements are followed. That 23 is what we've come to. This is an agreement that has been 24 signed off on, contingent upon the approval of the 25 Commissioners Court of Kerr -- so Kerr County has not bound 12-13-10 85 1 itself yet. That is y'all's responsibility. But I've been 2 in conference with -- with Commissioner Oehler, and this -- 3 this agreement is presented to the Court for its 4 consideration, adoption, and ratification, at which point 5 this case will be final and the parties will be filing a 6 joint dismissal with prejudice of the pending action. 7 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Henneke, does -- does the 8 mediated agreement, in your opinion, preclude Kerr County 9 from having liability for any claims which may be asserted by 10 either the Tumas or Hatari Safari or the attorneys 11 representing them? 12 MR. HENNEKE: This -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Once concluded? 14 MR. HENNEKE: This is a mutual joint dismissal with 15 prejudice, so this would bar relitigation of any claim that 16 they asserted in this lawsuit or any claim that they could 17 have asserted in connection with this lawsuit, under the 18 standard Rules of Civil Procedure. So, this -- this 19 resolves -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that a yes? (Laughter.) 21 MR. HENNEKE: Yes, the dismissal with prejudice 22 bars the relitigation of any issue that raise -- was raised 23 or could have been raised in the current -- current action. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a number of participation 12-13-10 86 1 forms that were filed, and they mention both Items 21 and 22. 2 As indicated, there's been a request for Item 22 to be 3 passed, but I wanted to be sure that these individuals 4 ascertain whether or not they wanted to be heard with respect 5 to this particular item. Mrs. Mildred Crenshaw, do you wish 6 to be heard with respect to Item 21, which is the 7 ratification of the mediated agreement? Do you wish to be 8 heard? 9 MS. CRENSHAW: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll come forward, then. 11 MS. CRENSHAW: This is my fourth time to come 12 before you, and I would like to say one thing. I'd like you 13 to really consider the fact that how would you feel if one of 14 these animals winds up in your yard at 2 o'clock in the 15 morning? And if you're prepared for the consequences 16 afterwards. Thank you. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Mary Valdez? Do 18 you wish to be heard with regard to the mediated settlement 19 agreement? 20 MS. VALDEZ: Well, as you know, this is my second 21 time speaking before you. The first time y'all said that the 22 safety was not an issue at the time, which safety is an 23 issue. Dear Commissioners, we, the Kerr County citizens, 24 come before you asking you to remove these wild, dangerous 25 animals from the Tumas' residence west of Ingram. 12-13-10 87 1 Mr. Henneke and Mr. Oehler have petitions with over 300 2 signatures from Kerr County citizens who do want -- do not 3 want these kind of animals in their neighborhoods. We had 4 many more signatures, but on Saturday, November the 27th, 5 around lunchtime, Mrs. Tuma walked into El Charro Restaurant 6 stating that she was the owner to the manager and patrons -- 7 that she was the owner of these animals, and just -- she was 8 the owner of the wild animals, and stole a petition that 9 contained many more signatures. The petition did not belong 10 to her; it belonged to the Kerr County citizens. I have the 11 name and the phone number of the owner so he can verify what 12 I am saying. 13 This is the reason the Tumas offered the County a 14 settlement before the December 7th trial. They knew if 15 they -- if the jury heard what the Tumas -- that Mrs. Tuma 16 stole the petition, and all the witnesses that were scheduled 17 to testify, they would have lost their case automatically. 18 Luckily, this was not the only petition we -- we had. We had 19 over 10 petitions located in different businesses in Ingram, 20 Kerrville, and Center Point, plus residences from Mountain 21 Home, Ingram, Kerrville, Kerrville South, and Center Point. 22 We did not go to these citizens and put a gun to their head 23 to sign the petitions. They signed the petitions because 24 they feared for their lives. These animals do get out. 25 Example number one. Two years ago, a tiger got out from the 12-13-10 88 1 Ingram residence. Two, this summer a monkey escaped in San 2 Antonio. Three, this summer a cougar also escaped in San 3 Antonio and almost killed a dog. Thank God, he did not kill 4 a -- a kid from a day care center that was located right 5 across the street from where these animals were kept. Number 6 four, according to the manager from Super S, he lived in 7 Crystal Lake, and -- Crystal Beach, and in Crystal Beach, a 8 tiger escaped and killed a 3-year-old boy. Number five, four 9 years ago a tiger killed his own master at a casino 10 performance in Las Vegas. That was his own master, and he 11 killed him. 12 This is the Hill Country where we have deer, 13 turkeys, armadillos, and other small animals. This is not 14 the jungle where we have tigers, cougars, and bears. Please 15 do not risk the lives of thousands of Kerr County citizens 16 just to make two people happy. Do not forget the concept 17 that states the majority rules, and the majority of Kerr 18 County citizens have spoken. You, the Commissioners, were 19 elected by your peers to take care of the citizens of Kerr 20 County and their safety. No amount of money should be placed 21 on someone's life. Please do the right decision and remove 22 these animals before a tragedy happens. The Tumas have been 23 ordered two times to remove these animals by Judge Emerson, 24 but to no avail. 25 Okay. On November the 13-14, in the weekend paper, 12-13-10 89 1 "Freedom First 101" wrote an article stating to let the Tumas 2 keep their animals, and a week later a Mr. Sandoz made a 3 rebuttal to Freedom First 101 asking why not use a real name 4 at the end of the article, and as of this date, no reply was 5 made, because Freedom First 101 is just another name Mr. Tuma 6 made up, like Hatari Safari. No amount of permits or 7 insurance is going to bring back the life of a person killed. 8 If you want to own these kind of dangerous animals, have them 9 far away from residential homes and citizens. Please, all we 10 ask is keep us safe in Kerr County. That's all we ask. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 12 MS. VALDEZ: Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Michael Jon Whitley? 14 MR. WHITLEY: My name is Jon Whitley; I live at 15 4424 Junction Highway, and my respects to Your Honor and 16 Commissioners. I live right across the street from the said 17 property of Hatari Safari. The concerns that I have are 18 similar to the rest of the community. These cats can get 19 out. There is certain rules and regulations and statutes 20 that -- that need to be enforced as far as keeping the cats, 21 and it is to my understanding that the Tumas aren't the only 22 ones in the county that have these wild animals. It will be 23 bad if Kerr County bans those wild and dangerous animals for 24 everybody because one person doesn't follow the rules and 25 regulations that they're supposed to. As far as the -- the 12-13-10 90 1 containment of the wild animals, it needs to be -- if the 2 County goes for -- not to get rid of them, the containment of 3 wild animals needs to be to where they cannot escape and get 4 out. There is several people that have kids that don't allow 5 their kids to wait on the school bus, or are there to pick 6 them up in the mornings because of this issue. We do not use 7 our property like we used to. We don't go for walks in the 8 evenings any more. We don't play basketball in the driveway 9 any more up to dusk and dark, for fear that one of these 10 animals may get out. I'm here today to -- to express my 11 opinion on that, and that is my opinion. 12 Another concern that I have is, it is not -- to my 13 knowledge, and I don't know if anybody knows -- I know that 14 Mr. and Mrs. Tuma probably do -- the range of a cougar is 15 approximately 62 miles. And if there are female cougars in 16 their possession, then we have wild toms, when they go into 17 heat, coming into our area that are also endangering our 18 children. And many people around there have wildlife, sheep 19 and goats. That is another concern. That is out of their 20 control, as far as the wild animals that are being attracted 21 by the ones that they own. But that is also something else 22 that may be need -- needed to be taken into consideration. 23 Thank you. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 12-13-10 91 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Lisa Cauthen. 2 MS. CAUTHEN: I haven't really prepared everything, 3 but from what I'm understanding, that Mr. Henneke's saying 4 that, you know, since they're abiding by the rules and 5 everything, that they are going to get to keep them. One of 6 the things that I would like to see go in place if they do 7 is, just like y'all have a system with 911 where, like, 8 there's a low-water crossing, and it -- the water gets up, 9 where it will call people in that area to warn them, either 10 stay home or don't go home. I would like to see some kind of 11 thing put in place where, if they do get out, that the Tumas 12 would call that number, and all of us would know, and we 13 would watch for it. And, you know, 'cause we need to know, 14 you know, if they get out. Would that be something that 15 could be possible to be set up? 16 JUDGE TINLEY: The Sheriff has the ability to -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing we can do -- and I 18 was talking to Rob about it earlier. And y'all all well 19 know, and so they know, we do have the Code Red system inside 20 Kerr County. Code Red is an automatic notification system to 21 where we activate it at the Sheriff's Office for either a 22 certain area or a certain group of numbers, okay, for it to 23 call. It's kind of like a Reverse 911, except it's an 24 independent system. We do activate it during floods, and 25 which we did, and it has pros and cons. When we activated 12-13-10 92 1 it, it was about 2 o'clock in the morning, and got a lot of 2 phone calls that people didn't like it. But during a 3 flooding situation, that's what's required, and that's what 4 we will do. The only thing, it's only as good as the people 5 that register for it. You need to go onto the web site, Kerr 6 County Sheriff's Office web site, sign up for the system. It 7 takes about two seconds to put your cell phone, your e-mail, 8 your home phone or any other phone numbers in. As long as 9 you live in Kerr County, you can sign up for that system. 10 And then if one of those animals got out, and if we were 11 notified by the owner, as soon as we are aware that an animal 12 has gotten out, then we can pull up a map, draw a circle 13 around a mile radius, 2-mile radius or whatever, and activate 14 that system. Everybody that's registered would get a phone 15 call, okay? I cannot guarantee anything that's 16 communication-wise or electronic; I'm not going to accept the 17 liability if you don't get a phone call, all right? But we 18 will activate that system, and it's one of the better ones 19 that I've seen that will notify everybody that we can 20 possibly notify. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. 22 MS. CAUTHEN: As you know, I have a business just 23 right down the road, and, of course, we have an R.V. park. 24 We have a lot of children that come there too, and so that's 25 a concern too. 'Cause sometimes I feel like I have to tell 12-13-10 93 1 my customers the truth, that there are dangerous wild animals 2 down the road, because I feel like I -- sometimes that hurts. 3 Sometimes they are -- they don't want to stay there because 4 of that, and so that hurts me financially. The other thing 5 is, I don't know what kind of training that they have as far 6 as, you know, like the zoos get. Can -- you know, like, if I 7 wanted to go get a tiger myself, could I just go get a tiger? 8 Am I going to have to have some kind of professional 9 training? Or -- you see what I'm saying? 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think that's any part of the 11 statute -- of the settlement agreement, the mediated 12 settlement agreement. 13 MS. CAUTHEN: But, anyway -- and, let's see, what 14 else did I want to say? The other thing the other gentleman 15 brought up about the animals, I thought about the same thing. 16 That concerns me, to where some of the cougars that they have 17 are females, and that it would attract some of the males 18 around, because they are contained there, and I was kind of 19 worried about that too. So -- and we have goats also, too, 20 on our -- our property that's beside this too. And that's 21 about all my concerns. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. 23 MS. CAUTHEN: Mm-hmm. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: John Wayne Giles? 25 MR. GILES: Not at this time, Judge, thank you. I 12-13-10 94 1 pass. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Nancy Ann Rector? 3 MS. RECTOR: He told me I was supposed to speak for 4 him as well, but I agree with the rest of them. We used to 5 always sleep outside during the summertime, and since they 6 were there, we no longer do that. That's taking -- this is 7 sort of our free camping trip; that's taking away from us, 8 'cause I don't know when they're going to get out. I've also 9 seen, during flooding season, that area where they're at and 10 where those cages are at, I have actually seen waters come up 11 and flood that area and take out those fences. So, what's 12 going to say next time we have a flood, it doesn't take it 13 out then? It just -- it just takes away our freedom. That's 14 all I have. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Ms. Amy Tuma? 16 MS. TUMA: I'm glad I got to go last; now I get to 17 address everybody's concerns. First of all, I'd like to 18 clear up the little incident with the Mexican restaurant. I 19 had an individual tell me that she was appalled that when she 20 went to check out at the El Charro Restaurant, that they were 21 asking her to sign the petition. So I went in there, asked 22 to speak to the owner, and asked him why he had a problem 23 with me, and I confronted him about the situation. He had to 24 have a waitress come and translate in Spanish, and he said he 25 didn't understand what the petition was, and that he didn't 12-13-10 95 1 want any part of it, and he actually gave it to me. I still 2 have it, if she'd like it back. It had 12 signatures on it. 3 The animals that have been gotten loose, they haven't killed 4 anybody. The animal that got loose out of -- the cougar in 5 the wild animal orphanage was caught within two hours and 45 6 minutes, and no damage was done. 7 I've had Kiera, my female mountain lion, for three 8 years, and nobody had any concerns or anything until all this 9 got brought publicly. There are dogs surrounding my 10 property, so I guarantee that any mountain lion coming in 11 heat is not going to bring in any other mountain lions 12 towards my property. But, yeah, wild mountain lions are a 13 factor. I've always had insurance, but the insurance clause, 14 as you guys all know, is written very poorly. It says 15 $100,000 per occurrence. I have $100,000 per occurrence, but 16 as Mr. Henneke will tell you, there are some exceptions in my 17 insurance policy. But, unfortunately, the statute does not 18 cover what the exemption should be or what it shouldn't be. 19 So, I ask the Commissioners today that when they look at this 20 agreement and they set a new standard for what they would 21 like the insurance to cover, that we put that into the 22 dangerous wild animal regulations, because I know that the 23 other people in the county that have insurance, their 24 insurance isn't as good as mine. So, if we're going to set a 25 new standard and let Judge Andrews say we need to have this, 12-13-10 96 1 we need to have this, we need to have this in the insurance, 2 then I ask the Commissioners to let the other people who have 3 dangerous wild animals be aware of this clause, because it 4 needs to be brought to their attention too, so they don't 5 suffer because we agree on a different insurance clause 6 today. 7 I have no problem making a tree for all of the 8 neighbors and stuff. I would be more than happy to call if 9 anything did happen. And as far as the flood goes, we've had 10 a watermaster come out, and we've changed the land now. We 11 built up a berm so that the water actually flows in a 12 different direction. And we have set out a secondary fence 13 so that it would have to take out literally three fences now 14 before it even hit the animals' cages and facilities. And, 15 again, I -- if anyone has concerns, I invite them to come 16 out, because this isn't supposed to be for me keeping pets. 17 As you know, I've had Joe come out, and he's donated deer to 18 help feed these animals. I'm not doing this for my own 19 private good. I want to do something for the public, for the 20 kids. And this wasn't just about tigers and lions; this is 21 about opening an animal sanctuary. Thank you, guys. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Those are the only 23 participation forms that were filed. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, may I ask one question? 25 'Cause rumors I've been hearing -- one thing I'd like to 12-13-10 97 1 clear up in regards to her insurance, real quick, is does the 2 insurance cover an animal that gets out of that facility? 3 MR. HENNEKE: Currently, no. 4 MS. TUMA: No, it does not. We -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 6 MS. TUMA: We have talked to the insurance company, 7 and they will add that clause to the insurance for an extra 8 $500 a year. And there is no limit; it says that it covers 9 escaped animals. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: All premises? 11 MS. TUMA: Yes. And it will be another $500 a year 12 onto my insurance policy. 13 MS. VALDEZ: Excuse me, can I make a rebuttal? 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 15 MS. VALDEZ: Can I say something? 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ms. Valdez. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. 18 MS. VALDEZ: Well, Ms. Tuma said she would call law 19 enforcement if one of the animals escaped. What if an animal 20 escapes at 2:00, 3 o'clock in the morning? They're asleep. 21 They won't know that animal escaped till 7 o'clock in the 22 morning. They are sleeping at 2:00, 3:00, 4 o'clock in the 23 morning, and if an animal escapes, they won't find out till 24 they wake up at 7:00 or 8 o'clock in the morning. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Valdez. 12-13-10 98 1 MS. VALDEZ: By that time, it will hurt somebody. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I don't want to get into 3 all the back-and-forth kind of nonsense. The issue before 4 the Court at this point in time is whether or not this Court 5 should approve a mediated agreement that's here before the 6 Court. That's the issue. This issue has been -- and all the 7 ramifications of it have been kicked about for a number of 8 months, and the issue now before the Court is, does the Court 9 approve or not approve the mediated agreement? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a couple of 11 questions. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It outlines in here Judge 14 Andrews, as far as the insurance is concerned, and the -- the 15 enclosures, that he will -- he will somehow, through third 16 parties, decide if they comply with state law. Is that what 17 this says? 18 MR. HENNEKE: Essentially. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And -- but what if 20 they don't comply with state law? 21 MR. HENNEKE: Well, if they don't comply with state 22 law, then they won't be registered to have dangerous wild 23 animals, and then they'll -- they will be in violation of the 24 law. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we go right back to 12-13-10 99 1 where we started several months ago? 2 MR. HENNEKE: Hopefully not. This provides a 3 mechanism for -- the Tumas have agreed to comply, and it's on 4 the first page. And there was some questions as to, you 5 know, how to get to objective criteria to either allow them 6 to achieve that, or if they don't achieve it, then they don't 7 achieve it and they can't complain about the fairness. Then 8 if they don't achieve it, they won't be in compliance, and 9 will be in violation of the law. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, also the last 11 paragraph -- actually, the next-to-last paragraph provides 12 that in the event there are deficiencies -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: -- with respect to that insurance, 15 specifically, among other things, they have a 30-day cure 16 period in which to cure the -- what's determined to be the 17 deficiencies, so that we don't end up back in this drop-dead 18 situation where -- where we seemingly were before. 19 MR. HENNEKE: The issue of the lawsuit, 20 Commissioner Baldwin, was whether they were, as they 21 maintained during that litigation, exempt or not subject to 22 the requirements, and that was the overriding issue. But 23 then with the agreement that they are not -- or that they 24 don't -- I guess their agreement that they will comply with 25 the requirements, then that takes the issue of -- the issue 12-13-10 100 1 of the litigation and resolves it. 2 MS. TUMA: I have to stop and disagree with 3 Mr. Henneke. It wasn't an issue -- if you read the 4 agreement, we are putting exemptions in, so we're doing a 5 give and take situation. The County is recognizing that the 6 reason why I was claiming exemptions are still in the 7 agreement. Sometimes animals come immediately to me that 8 need -- in need. That was what caused this whole problem in 9 the first place. And the County is giving me an exemption in 10 the settlement agreement by giving me 14 days to accept 11 animals that are in an immediate need, and also providing for 12 infant care, which was another issue that we had. 13 MR. HENNEKE: The purpose -- the purpose of today 14 is not to debate the agreement. The Tumas have agreed to 15 comply with the requirements. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to know, does the 17 state law require that -- this type of insurance, and does 18 the state law require a certain type of enclosure? 19 MR. HENNEKE: There are -- the statute sets forth 20 caging standards, and also insurance requirements. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 MR. HENNEKE: And comparing what they have to what 23 the requirement is is what we've set forth -- the mechanism 24 in this agreement. 25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Judge Andrews is going to 12-13-10 101 1 get knowledgeable people to look at the insurance, and also 2 the caging requirements and do an on-site inspection to 3 determine whether they are or are not in compliance, and then 4 tell them, if they're not, what they have to do to come in 5 compliance. 6 MR. HENNEKE: I want to make a specific point. 7 There's no insinuation or nothing that should be inferred in 8 this that Janie and her -- her Animal Control officers are 9 unqualified. They made the determinations, and at the time 10 found that they were not -- the Tumas did not meet the 11 requirements. Judge Ragsdale agreed during the appeal. But 12 in the effort of coming to a settlement, so the parties could 13 come and resolve their disputes in this lawsuit, it was 14 agreed that for this situation, we would use the expertise of 15 Judge Andrews in finding a third party that's neutral to, you 16 know, reevaluate, and I think reaffirm what -- what Animal 17 Control determined, and what was agreed with by Judge 18 Ragsdale. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is, because of 20 the public comment today, there's two issues. What I heard a 21 lot of the public saying was basically the overall -- the 22 fact that Kerr County allows wild animals to be housed or 23 owned by individuals, residents of Kerr County, and that's 24 really not the issue here. That's a separate issue that the 25 Court has looked at off and on. So far, we have not made 12-13-10 102 1 them illegal to own in Kerr County, largely because the 2 statute is written in a way that you have to exclude 3 everything, just about. And it gets into very -- into a gray 4 area as to what really is a wild animal. The issue today is 5 the settlement of this one issue, and as I understand it and 6 interpret it, is that the Tumas have agreed to abide by state 7 law. And -- you know, and that is all we can do at this 8 point. And for that reason, I support the settlement. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll let Mr. Baldwin make a 11 motion. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Baldwin? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can do it. Judge, I move 14 that we approve the settlement agreement between Kerr County 15 and Clint and Amy Tuma. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a 17 second? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second it. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 20 approve the agenda item, the mediated agreement. Further 21 question or discussion on the motion? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One quick issue, Judge. If, 23 because of the insurance -- and I understand that that's an 24 issue with all three of the places or whatever in Kerr 25 County; it's not just the Tumas, that does not cover an 12-13-10 103 1 animal that doesn't escape, you know -- or that escapes. I 2 would recommend at a future Commissioners Court that this 3 Court consider requiring these people to have insurance that 4 does cover those animals when they escape. Because my office 5 is probably going to have some expenses during that time, and 6 a lot of other stuff that we would like to -- 7 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rusty, I believe the intent 8 of this -- and I feel like that it's -- you know, if it's 9 fair for one, it's fair for all. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's going to -- that 12 will come into play whenever their permits come up for 13 renewal. They'll have to do the same thing that the Tumas 14 are saying that they're -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that was my question. If 16 -- if the agreement's agreed upon as-is, and it comes later 17 that you add the other requirement to require them all to 18 have, you know, the insurance for escaped animals, will the 19 Tumas be exempt from that requirement, or will that future 20 requirement also include them? Because they have this 21 agreement as-is today. 22 MR. HENNEKE: No, that's not the -- I guess, as far 23 as the escaped animals, the insurance policy that the Tumas 24 had explicitly did not cover any off-premises liability if 25 the animals escaped, and that was one of the many reasons why 12-13-10 104 1 that policy did not comply with the state law. So, the new 2 policy has to cover the animals if they escape, and anybody 3 else's -- and we're now looking at the other two or three 4 individuals whose -- whose certificates will come up for 5 renewal. They're going to be held to the same standards. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Is the state law provision that 7 we're dealing with, Health and Safety Code here, does the 8 insurance requirements specifically require off-premises 9 liability insurance? 10 MR. HENNEKE: It's moot on that issue. It requires 11 $100,000 per occurrence for injury or property damage caused 12 by the animals. There's no aggregate limit set forth in the 13 statute, and there's certainly no exclusion for on-premise 14 only. It's 100,000 per occurrence for injury or damage 15 caused by the animals. And in my position, that's injury or 16 damage caused, you know, from someone standing next to the 17 cage or from someone playing on the playground down the 18 street at Ingram Elementary School. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but my point is, that's really 20 a legislative issue, where there's not legislative clarity in 21 the statute. Irrespective of who may have what position 22 about it, some of these things may be things that our 23 Legislature needs to -- to address in order to be much 24 clearer with respect to what's intended. 25 MR. HENNEKE: Well, this litigation and our 12-13-10 105 1 discussions have exposed some concerns with the statute, but 2 I -- I firmly believe that it was -- if it was the 3 Legislature's intent to, you know, only require on-premise 4 liability, or to specifically exclude any requirement that 5 there be off-premise liability, that it would say so. And I 6 think that the statute, by requiring liability per 7 occurrence, period, covered whether the animals hurt 8 somebody, whether it be across the street or on the property. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: As an advocate, could you not also 10 take the position that if they intended it to be 11 off-premises, they would have specifically required that it 12 be off premises? My point is, this is a very debatable 13 issue, and it was not set forth clearly in the statute. And 14 what we're really talking about is a legislative issue. 15 MR. HENNEKE: Global issue; of course it is. Any 16 changes to the state law are an issue for the Legislature. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Therefore, we have lawsuits. 18 MS. TUMA: And I have contacted the governor's 19 office and asked to speak on behalf, because I believe not 20 only is the insurance clause not written very well, but the 21 whole statute itself needs reworking. And I've asked the 22 legislation -- to speak in behalf, to refine it to make it 23 better for everybody. I don't want anybody to get hurt; 24 that's not my intent either. I want to take care of these 25 animals. 12-13-10 106 1 MR. HENNEKE: I think the statute's -- you know, 2 it's clear enough, and we found a way to comply with it and 3 comply with the requirements. 4 JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Whitley, you -- 5 MR. WHITLEY: Your Honor, I'd like to just insert 6 something. In the future, if there's any other incidents or 7 anything, that maybe it would be possible for the 8 Commissioners to research a little bit on a federal zoo 9 license, which specifies -- once you get that license, 10 specifies each animal, the cage sizes, the way that the cages 11 are supposed to be constructed, and they're inspected 12 annually. If it's a possibility or whatever. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That, of course, is outside the 14 issue before the Court. 15 MR. WHITLEY: Yes, sir, it is outside the issue. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else, sir? 17 MR. WHITLEY: No, sir. 18 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Anyone else have a 19 comment they wish to make? Mr. Prendergast? 20 MR. PRENDERGAST: Yeah. The whole thing concerns 21 me, because it looks like we're trying to legislate here from 22 Commissioners Court. And we complain all the time about 23 judges trying to legislate, but we have a County Attorney 24 who's trying to say that, "Here's what the law says," when in 25 fact that's not what the law says. Nor did he have standing 12-13-10 107 1 to even bring this lawsuit. The Court of Appeals said you 2 have no standing. 3 MR. HENNEKE: If I need to, Judge, I'd be glad to 4 address -- 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's don't get into that issue. 6 Let's stay hitched on what we're here for, okay? I have a 7 motion and a second. Do we have further question or 8 discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, 9 signify by raising your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. The 14 agreement is approved. Item 22. It's my understanding that 15 -- that there's been a request that that item be removed from 16 the agenda; is that correct? 17 MS. TUMA: Yes. I figured we covered it with 18 the... 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's go -- 20 MS. TUMA: We're done. 21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hopefully. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 23; consider, 23 discuss, take appropriate action to amend Kerr County health 24 benefits plan to provide that dependents of Kerr County 25 employees who are over 65 or otherwise eligible for Medicaid 12-13-10 108 1 coverage are not eligible or permissible as insureds under 2 the Kerr County health benefits plan. I initially put this 3 on the agenda because of an issue which arose concerning the 4 availability of dependents of -- of those who are 5 Medicare-eligible to obtain supplemental coverage to Medicare 6 coverage. I'm not sure we're in a position to proceed 7 forward at this time. Ms. Hyde? Aren't we waiting for more 8 clarification from -- from Mr. Looney, our insurance 9 consultant? 10 MS. HYDE: After talking with the County Attorney, 11 he would feel more comfortable if we had more documentation 12 in writing. So -- 13 JUDGE TINLEY: We'll pass at this time. Item 24; 14 consider, discuss, take appropriate action with regard to 15 establishing Kerr County personnel policy concerning 16 retirement of Kerr County employees and subsequent rehires. 17 Are we ready to proceed on that one? 18 MS. HYDE: I have documentation on that one. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 20 MS. HYDE: This one should be fairly simple, after 21 this last one. Please make sure Cheryl gets one. This is 22 just allergies; it's not -- it's just allergies. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not infectious? 24 MS. HYDE: I'm sorry? It's called cedar. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said, "You're not 12-13-10 109 1 infectious?" 2 MS. HYDE: No, I'm not infectious. I thought you 3 said I'm not from Texas. My ears are plugged, too. 4 (Laughter.) During the last four or five weeks, there's been 5 a lot of questions about things, and this is one of them. 6 Can we allow people to retire and then come right back to 7 work? The Legislature passed something this year that kind 8 of strengthened and reemphasized that you kind of need to 9 know what you're doing, and we kind of need to get the word 10 out. So, can you allow somebody to retire? Of course you 11 can. Can you rehire someone as a retiree to a full-time 12 position? Yes, you can. But... Here's the "but." You need 13 to have at least 30 days, 30 calendar days, in between their 14 retirement and then being rehired by Kerr County. You need 15 to make sure that there is -- I'm going to read it, 'cause 16 I'm not going -- I'm going to read it. You may rehire a 17 retiree, and his or her monthly T.C.D.R.S. benefit payment 18 will not be suspended. However, comma, the original 19 employment termination needs to meet certain requirements to 20 maintain your plan's qualified status with the I.R.S. Which 21 means we can lose it becoming our plan. The I.R.S. requires 22 that the retirement be bona fide separation from employment. 23 This means there can be no expectation or understanding that 24 you will hire the employee after he or she retires. That's 25 huge. That's the big one. 12-13-10 110 1 The second one is, T.C.D.R.S. requires at least one 2 full calendar month to pass before you hire one of your 3 retirees. For example, if the employee's date of termination 4 is April 15th, tax day, then the earliest you may rehire is 5 June 1st. The entire calendar month of May -- excuse me -- 6 must pass before you can hire the employee again. That 7 qualified tax status is the concern, to make sure that we 8 don't lose the qualified plan. Because our tax-deferred 9 status would be lost as well, so we could owe taxes and 10 penalties, and the I.R.S. -- y'all get the understanding. 11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be very careful. 12 MS. HYDE: Right now, we don't have a policy 13 stating that they need to be out at least 30 calendar days. 14 When I talked with T.C.D.R.S., it's across the board. You've 15 got anywhere from this calendar, exactly what it says, to 90 16 days. And typically they look at the 90-day rule as people 17 are gone and retiring for 90 days; they've had time to think 18 about it and make a good decision. So, I just ask the Court 19 to consider this and discuss and take appropriate action on 20 what can we insert in our policy so that it can be put out 21 there for our folks. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I personally kind of like the 23 90 days. I mean -- 24 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think -- I don't think it 25 should be less than 60, for sure. Just -- we got to cover 12-13-10 111 1 our -- cover ourselves as best we can. We sure can't -- we 2 can't take a chance on losing our retirement system. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, you indicated that -- that 4 the T.C.D.R.S. people, the people that administer our plan, 5 they have -- they've taken a conservative approach and said 6 90 days? 7 MS. HYDE: What they say is that we have counties 8 within the -- however many is in T.C.D.R.S., and there's not 9 any at this time that are just doing the 30. Because they do 10 want to insure, most of them are doing a 90-day approval, and 11 that gives more flexibility. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: And their position with respect to 13 the 90 days? 14 MS. HYDE: I asked that exactly, and they said it 15 is up to your Commissioners Court. They threw that ball 16 right back in y'all's court. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we need to write some 19 kind of statement that couples with the 90-day deal, don't 20 you think? 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we want the 90 days, we 22 need to adopt that as part of the policy, 90-day gap between 23 retirement and rehire. That's certainly the conservative 24 approach. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are y'all sneaking 12-13-10 112 1 around with down there? Is it language for this? 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing to do with you, or 3 the Judge. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or this item on the agenda. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all playing tic-tac-toe 6 down there? 7 MS. HYDE: They're playing hangman. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hangman? 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No. No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, do we need to make a 11 motion for 90 days, or are you going to -- 12 MS. HYDE: I would -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- want guidance to put it back 14 in the policy? Or -- 15 MS. HYDE: I would appreciate guidance of where you 16 want me to go. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My guidance is 90 days. If it 18 takes a motion to give you that guidance, I make a motion for 19 90 days. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it. 21 MS. HYDE: I can bring it back to the Court and let 22 you red-pencil it. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 90-day period between 24 retirement and rehiring; is that correct? 25 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to 12-13-10 113 1 adopt as part of the Kerr County policy that there be a 2 90-day gap between retirement and rehire of Kerr County 3 employees under the T.C.D.R.S. plan. Question or discussion 4 on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by 5 raising your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. 10 MS. HYDE: Thank you, gentlemen. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 25; consider, 12 discuss, take appropriate action on resolution requesting 13 Kerr County not be included in the Southern Edwards Plateau 14 Habitat Conservation Plan. Commissioner Letz? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda, and 16 it's a -- one of those interesting things I got myself 17 involved with, which is probably a good thing for, I think, 18 Kerr County, and probably this Court. First thing is that 19 this is -- this whole issue is much like the power lines 20 going through Kerr County. It's not really an issue that we 21 are directly involved with. The applicant is Bexar County, 22 and the approval is by the Fish and Wildlife Service. Just 23 like with the power lines; the applicant was L.C.R.A. and the 24 approval is P.U.C. But it does impact Kerr County, and I 25 think that the -- that being said, I think we do have a -- a 12-13-10 114 1 reason to make a public statement and inform Bexar County of 2 our position. 3 Most people know that I also serve as the co-chair 4 of the committee advising Bexar County, called the C.A.C. 5 And for some reason, because I'm co-chair of it, a lot of 6 people seem to have the impression that I'm in favor of it, 7 and it's not true. I mean, my view -- my job on that is -- 8 and my agreement to accept that position was to work with 9 Bexar County and see if there was an application that could 10 be submitted by them that the Fish and Wildlife Service would 11 approve. And when Bexar County appointed me to this, they 12 did it largely because they wanted a rural county 13 commissioner to have a large input into this process. They 14 weren't trying to be -- they've been -- you know, the 15 allegation used to be, you know, back door and doing other 16 things. They clearly wanted me to do it, and they know my 17 position on this. And my position has been pretty consistent 18 all along, once I really got up to speed on what the habitat 19 conservation plan, is that, first, I don't see any reason for 20 this Commissioners Court to participate in the plan. It's 21 nothing that we need to do, in my mind. From the standpoint 22 of Kerr County, I don't see much reason for Kerr County to 23 participate in the plan. 24 The thing that I do object to was the way that it 25 was kind of, I guess, done by Bexar County; that it was kind 12-13-10 115 1 of -- all of the counties or the area was put together, and 2 then for input to kind of, I guess, just lay it out there. I 3 think a better approach would have been if they would have 4 gone and let counties, cities, municipalities, individuals be 5 proactive and ask to be included, rather than be included up 6 front. And that's essentially what I've done in my 7 resolution. The resolution says -- and I'll read it in a 8 second, but the intent, hopefully what it came out and says, 9 is that we don't -- as a Commissioners Court, we don't want 10 to participate in the plan, and we don't want Kerr County in 11 the plan. However, if, at some future point in time, once 12 the plan is actually written, the entities, Kerr County or 13 individuals, want to participate in the plan, they should 14 submit that information to Bexar County, and Bexar County, as 15 the applicant, will make a decision at that time. Hopefully 16 that's what I -- what I said. But let me go ahead and read 17 the resolution, and then we can entertain any comments on it. 18 "Resolution of Kerr County Commissioners Court 19 setting forth its concerns and position on the proposed 20 Southern Edwards Plateau Habitat Conservation Plan, SEP-HCP. 21 Whereas, individual property rights are one of the 22 fundamental rights set forth in the Constitution of the 23 United States of America, and Kerr County Commissioners Court 24 has a history of standing up and protecting these property 25 rights and enabling individuals the right to use their 12-13-10 116 1 property; and whereas, Bexar County is developing an 2 application to submit to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 3 to establish a regional habitat conservation plan that may 4 include Kerr County; and whereas, the Kerr County 5 Commissioners Court acknowledges Bexar County may have the 6 need for such a plan, and appreciates Bexar County soliciting 7 input from residents of Kerr County; 8 "Whereas, the Endangered Species Act and applicable 9 state laws concerning listed and/or threatened species 10 currently exist and apply to property, wildlife, and habitat 11 in Kerr County; and whereas, the SEP-HCP may impact 12 landowners, wildlife, and endangered species and habitats in 13 Kerr County; whereas, Kerr County Commissioners Court does 14 not intend to apply for a habitat conservation plan covering 15 Kerr County, and does not believe there is a need for such a 16 plan at this time; and whereas, Kerr County Commissioners 17 Court understands that the SEP-HCP has not yet been written, 18 and therefore, the specifics of the plan are unknown; and 19 whereas, Kerr County Commissioners Court is the local 20 governmental entity that represents the residents of Kerr 21 County, and is submitting this resolution to provide input to 22 Bexar County to help guide in this decision. Now, therefore, 23 be it resolved, on the 13th day of December, 2010, Kerr 24 County Commissioners Court does not want to participate in 25 this plan and requests that Kerr County not be included in 12-13-10 117 1 the SEP-HCP. Should Kerr County, its residents, or other 2 entities in Kerr County want to participate in the SEP, said 3 request by Kerr County, residents, or other entities should 4 be made by resolution or letter to Bexar County." And that's 5 it. Pretty -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you left it open there at 7 the "resolved" part of it, where if anybody wanted to 8 participate in the thing, they would do a resolution to get 9 back in, including the County. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. If -- I can't imagine 11 the County wanting to do it, 'cause I don't see a need. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. That's what 13 that's saying. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason is, there are 15 property owners that would like to use their property -- have 16 told me they'd like to have their property considered, or at 17 least be able to negotiate to have their land used for 18 mitigation purposes. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not going to -- I mean, I 21 hope they get a very good attorney if they do it, but that's 22 up to them. 23 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think, you know -- but, 25 you know, it's the property rights side on both sides, to me. 12-13-10 118 1 If somebody wants to do it, well, then they should be allowed 2 to do it. If they don't want to do it, they should -- we 3 shouldn't be required to do it. We shouldn't be in the plan. 4 I don't want the area, or Kerr County included as a whole, to 5 have any obligation, and I -- you know, that's kind of where 6 I am on it. I've been pretty consistent on that. And Bexar 7 County's aware of my position. Fish and Wildlife Service is 8 aware, and I've said that at, you know, C.A.C. meetings. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're real happy about 10 it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bexar County is not unhappy 12 about it. They fully understand it. The people that are -- 13 I will say that Fish and Wildlife isn't real happy about it, 14 but, you know, that's not my concern. I'm -- you know, I 15 appreciate the fact that Bexar County has come out to -- and 16 I'm not the only one from the rural areas. Kerr County 17 actually has two representatives on the -- it's called the 18 C.A.C., and there's several from Kendall County. You know, 19 Bexar County could have done this very quietly, secretively, 20 and -- and done a plan; very well could have snuck through 21 the cracks, but they didn't. And I appreciate the fact that 22 they didn't do that, and also appreciate the fact that they 23 have been, you know, very honest with me, and I've been 24 honest with them, that I represent Kerr County and I'm going 25 to do what I think is best for Kerr County. At the same 12-13-10 119 1 time, I have no problem with trying to come up with a plan 2 that may help Bexar County. And it's that simple. 3 I mean, to me, they're not -- the relationship of 4 the two jobs that I have are not contradictory. My priority 5 if there is a conflict would come to Kerr County, obviously. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I see two places here 7 where it says the Commissioners -- Kerr County Commissioners 8 Court does not intend to apply for a habitat conservation 9 plan covering Kerr County. And then down lower, it says that 10 the Commissioners Court does not want to participate in this 11 plan. I mean, that's pretty black and white and plain to me. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second those motions 14 all day long. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll submit the resolution as a 16 motion. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: And we have a second? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for 20 adoption of the resolution as read into the record. Do we 21 have questions, comments with regard to the motion? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another comment is that I hope 23 other counties around do the same thing. I think -- 'cause I 24 think it needs to be a proactive effort if someone wants to 25 participate in this plan. I don't think it should be driven 12-13-10 120 1 by Bexar County. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's hopefully what I've 4 said here. 5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you did. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or it wouldn't be driven by 7 Kerr County either, by this Commissioners Court. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. If we -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: People don't feel like that 10 we required them to go and participate. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Generally, these habitat 12 conservation plans -- and there are quite a few of them. 13 Williamson County, Travis County, Hays County, Comal County 14 all have them; they're done. The applicant is frequently the 15 county or the city. If this Court felt we needed one in Kerr 16 County, then we would do one for Kerr County. But we -- you 17 know, I don't, and I don't suspect the rest of this Court 18 thinks there's really a need for it. The -- and I guess in a 19 two-second summary, the purpose of the plan, it provides a 20 quicker mechanism to get a takings permit under the 21 Endangered Species Act. That's what the purpose of it is, 22 but there's some strings that come in or may come in, and it 23 kind of depends how the plan is written. I think that 24 everyone in the public and this Court, once the draft plan is 25 written, should really look at it. It -- you know, because 12-13-10 121 1 it's -- the fact that we're doing this doesn't guarantee Kerr 2 County's not going to be included. It's a Bexar County 3 Commissioners Court decision. But it's -- the Endangered 4 Species Act is there. The habitat conservation plan doesn't 5 change anything about it. It's still -- you're obligated to 6 abide by it. But it just doesn't have a real -- doesn't help 7 Kerr County. There's no need for it in Kerr County, so 8 there's no reason for us to be part of it. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do they ever declare humans 10 in the Endangered Species Act? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could get there. I thought 12 it was interesting that some of the presentation by the 13 Ingram FFA talked about the black-capped vireo, and the 14 numbers they had, there's a whole bunch more of those 15 black-capped vireos than they showed on their chart. They've 16 been pretty frequent -- 17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have a bunch on your 18 place? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe I'm not going to 20 comment on that. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Particularly on the open record, 22 right? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or comments? All 25 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 12-13-10 122 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Be 5 interesting to see how your co-chairmanship of that committee 6 is now perceived, whether or not -- by virtue of the Court's 7 action, whether or not your services are desired in the 8 future -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I will -- 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- as a chairman on that committee. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I will say that my co-chair had 12 absolutely no problem with the resolution. And the 13 representative from Bexar County that is assigned to this -- 14 he's not a member, but the person that was assigned by the 15 Commissioners Court had no problem with the resolution. He 16 thinks they're both appropriate. Both of them bring -- it's 17 an appropriate thing for Kerr County to do, if that's what we 18 choose to do. 19 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Glad they feel that way. 20 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 27; to consider, 21 discuss, take appropriate action on updated field agreement, 22 that being the trapper contract. I put this on the agenda 23 because it came in somewhat after the fact. I don't know 24 that -- I assume everybody's had the chance to look at it to 25 the degree they feel like they need to. Like I say, it came 12-13-10 123 1 in, I think, just shortly before the agenda was posted. It 2 continues on an arrangement of 28,8 per year. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was the budgeted amount; 4 correct, Judge? 5 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, you were running with 6 that ball, so I was relying upon you. Total amount we've 7 budgeted is in excess of that because of the arrangement we 8 have with -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kendall County. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: -- supplementing the salary of the 11 Kendall County trapper. 12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 32, I believe. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: That sounds close. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're amounts within the 15 budget, so I move approval. 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 18 approval of the updated field agreement/trapper contract. 19 Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify 20 by raising your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We've got 25 one more agenda item. It appears that that will require 12-13-10 124 1 executive session, so let's move to Section 4. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Judge, I -- 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon? 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we have -- the first item 5 -- I think it was 1.2 that had to do with raising the bounty 6 on coyotes, and the person wasn't here at the time. I don't 7 know if -- 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 1.2. Mr. Sean Kendrick asked 9 that it be placed on the agenda, the coyote bounty. Yes? 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was going to see if he was 11 in the audience. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Is Mr. Sean Kendrick here? 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe he is. I 14 just wanted to make sure, give him one more chance. 15 JUDGE TINLEY: Another shot, okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully he doesn't have a 17 fire. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He may have a fire. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 4, payment of 20 the bills. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills, Judge. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for payment 24 of the bills. Question or discussion? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. The very first 12-13-10 125 1 item there, Parks and Wildlife, dues from J.P., is this 2 moneys -- their share that we need to send over there? Is 3 that -- we approved that? 4 MS. HARGIS: It's a fine that someone paid, and now 5 we're actually just sending the fine to the state. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we do that every month? 7 I've never -- 8 MS. HARGIS: We just do it as they come in. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. I'm assuming 10 that we're going to continue the KPUB bills in the Center 11 Point office. I actually see we're paying for a set of 12 coyote ears here. 13 MS. HARGIS: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of interesting. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we researched that here 16 a while back to see if that was still in effect, and it is. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, $15. When we pay 18 utilities and we talk about the Lions Park, is that Center 19 Point? Where is the Lions Park? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Center Point. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I never could place it in my 22 mind. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right at the other side of the 24 dam. 25 MR. BOLLIER: Lions Camp Park, that's Center Point. 12-13-10 126 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. Uniforms for the 2 airport employees. Just one thing I was kind of concerned 3 about here, Maxey Energy for Constable 1 is under $100, and 4 for Constable 3, it's 230. There's probably -- I'm sure 5 there's a reason for that. It just seems like -- 6 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All these tickets he's been 7 writing, I guess. Got a record of it. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess so. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There could also be another 10 explanation. I noticed on our bill, when the pumps went 11 down, we have to use, like, Exxon or one of those, and I have 12 Nancy checking on our bill we just got that shows two of 13 those that were filled up at Exxon being constables, but they 14 were put on my bill. So, that may -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We appreciate that. That's 16 okay. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not okay. (Laughter.) 18 But that could explain some of the difference. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The AACOG dues of $3,300, is 20 that -- is that, like, a quarterly? Or is this -- 21 MS. HARGIS: No, annual. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an annual amount 23 right there, so -- and so we paid in full? 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I started to talk about 12-13-10 127 1 cattle guards and concrete, but I'll let y'all alone now. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. Hold on just a 4 second, please. Capital improvements. Let's see, Page 14. 5 These items that are coming out of capital improvement, I 6 just want to say I -- I really would like to see where we are 7 in that fund, kind of an itemized amount. I believe that'll 8 do it. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or 10 comments? Okay. Let me weigh in here. Page 3, almost 11 halfway down, Lucy Pearson, jail docket. Should that not go 12 under 437? 13 MS. HARGIS: Without checking, Judge, I don't know. 14 Usually they're marked where they want them to go. She's 15 been doing a lot of those. 16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Page 4 towards the top, Hanna 17 Security, court-appointed attorney. They got a law license 18 over there? 19 MR. HENNEKE: No, that's not correct. That should 20 be under the litigation expense line item in the budget. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Court-appointed services, shouldn't 22 it? 23 MR. HENNEKE: It's not Court-appointed; it's 24 contract, litigation expenses. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: This isn't in your budget. 12-13-10 128 1 MR. HENNEKE: Oh. 2 JUDGE TINLEY: This is up in the 198th. 3 Apparently, somebody requested the appointment of an 4 investigator, I guess, and got it approved. 5 MS. HARGIS: We'll fix that. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hang in there just for -- I 8 got a question on that too, Judge. I'm glad you brought that 9 up. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Court-appointed service. I 12 see Hanna Security. I can see how that's Hanna Security. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But then that very next 15 line, which I would think Hanna Security, and it says 16 Court-appointed attorney. 17 JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm talking about. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. So, what -- 19 JUDGE TINLEY: That needs to be under the 20 Court-appointed services -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 JUDGE TINLEY: -- line item, presumably. And I 23 suspect they can make that correction. 24 MS. HARGIS: We'll have to look at it and see what 25 it is. 12-13-10 129 1 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Page 7, R.K. Auto Body, 11 -- 2 $1,200. 3 MS. HARGIS: We had one of our vehicles run into a 4 deer. 5 JUDGE TINLEY: How many deer have we run over in 6 the last couple months? 7 MS. HARGIS: A lot. 8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A bunch. 9 MS. HARGIS: A lot. 10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to buy a pickup with 11 grill guards and get them out of those cars, I think. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought we did. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we did that. 15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Bought the Sheriff a bunch of 16 Tahoes. 17 MS. HARGIS: This is a Tahoe. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I didn't hear that. What? 19 JUDGE TINLEY: I think that was probably 20 intentional on your part. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it wasn't. But what was 22 the issue? 23 MS. HARGIS: They wanted you to buy a truck, and I 24 said it was a Tahoe that got hit. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: You kill deer with rifles, not with 12-13-10 130 1 vehicles. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tell my guys that. I guess 3 they think it's more sporting that way. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How long have you been -- 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, deer guards only get 6 up to about 50 miles an hour. If they run at 80, it's their 7 own deal. I think that's the reason one that deer even got 8 hit right in between here and Ingram on 27 early one morning. 9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Deer have been hit just about 10 everywhere in Kerr County right now. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just that, unfortunately. 12 JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go up just a bit from there. 13 Windstream. Does that include both the equipment lease and 14 the service agreement, the Windstream -- that payment? 15 MS. HARGIS: Judge, I -- you asked me if I was 16 lying. I'm not sure. I know we discussed both of them. I 17 don't know if they combined them into one, but we will have 18 to pay that bill for the maintenance and the equipment rental 19 for the rest of that term with those two contracts. We have 20 Windstream -- we're waiting for them to come back to discuss 21 with us whether or not they would, you know, think about 22 changing the agreement, but right now, when they left my 23 office last week, they said they would not give us an out on 24 those two particular items. So, we're not returning the 25 equipment. We're keeping it until such time as the agreement 12-13-10 131 1 is complete. It was a 13-month agreement, so that means we 2 go this year plus one month into next year. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I know last Wednesday or 4 Thursday, we got another $1,700 bill from them. 5 MS. HARGIS: We're working on each and every one of 6 them that comes from them, but that's the only thing we 7 should be paying for. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's all I got. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's enough. 10 Troublemaker. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more question or comments on the 12 bills? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your 13 right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Budget 18 amendments. We've got, the summary indicates, four requests, 19 all in the County Attorney's office. Transfer to litigation 20 expense, about $8,600 total. 21 MS. HARGIS: Yes, and I think he discussed this 22 with y'all. We have to use some of the money that -- if they 23 didn't have that other employee that, you know, we had 24 budgeted, he wouldn't hire them right away, but he would have 25 to have some assistance. 12-13-10 132 1 MR. HENNEKE: We've been using a contract attorney 2 to cover State Hospital, cover J.P., and this -- the moneys 3 are from the different budgets that a salaried employee would 4 have been drawing from, moving that money over to the -- you 5 know, to cover what we've had to go out for. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: What was -- what was the original 7 budgeted amount in litigation expense? Do you recall? 8 MR. HENNEKE: It was 10,000. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: 10,000, okay. Okay. Do I hear a 10 motion that the four budget amendments as indicated on the 11 summary sheet be approved as presented? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval. 13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 14 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for 15 approval of the budget amendment requests as shown, 1 through 16 4 on the summary sheet. Question or discussion? All in 17 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. 22 MS. HARGIS: Before we go any further on the bills, 23 we did get a check -- you know, I've encouraged everyone to 24 use the Buy Board and the local cooperatives, and they all 25 have a kind of a rebate system. So, we received a check from 12-13-10 133 1 Buy Board for $2,676.12 by encouraging people to use the Buy 2 Board. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Is that just a general rebate for 4 all participants in relation to -- 5 MS. HARGIS: It is. 6 JUDGE TINLEY: -- amounts purchased through the Buy 7 Board? 8 MS. HARGIS: That's correct. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Not one particular purchase? 10 MS. HARGIS: Not one particular purchase. But -- 11 so, the more people that use it, the more money we get back. 12 The same even on the credit card that we have; we get points 13 back and money back on the -- and we don't use -- we don't 14 have very many of those in use, as you know. They're mostly 15 just used by the Sheriff's Department for them to ship 16 prisoners back and forth. But sometimes people do use my 17 card for purchasing when we don't have any other way of doing 18 it, and we do get money back on that every year as well. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any late bills? 20 MS. HARGIS: No late bills. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented monthly reports 22 for Constable, Precinct 1; County Clerk; Environmental 23 Health; Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Justice of the 24 Peace, Precinct 4. Do I hear a motion that the reports as 25 presented be approved? 12-13-10 134 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the 4 indicated reports be presented as -- be approved as 5 presented. Question or discussion? All in favor of the 6 motion, signify by raising your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. We'll go 11 to Section 5, reports from Commissioners. Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, well, I do have some 13 updates. East Kerr County Wastewater Project. The past week 14 or so, I've met with Al Groves, consulting engineer, going 15 over, getting up to speed on that project. And he and I and 16 possibly the County Attorney will be meeting with Water 17 Development Board this Thursday in Austin, going over, making 18 sure nothing falls through the cracks through the transition 19 period. And I think that's it. 20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good. 21 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler? 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just Ag Barn stuff; been 23 working with Tim on all that conglomeration of various things 24 that need to be fixed. And that's about it. 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin? 12-13-10 135 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. County-wide ESD, 2 we'll be in this courtroom or somewhere before this body to 3 make a presentation in January. Plus the Kerrville South 4 Wastewater project is finally -- they finally moved in some 5 tractors, and there's some dirt being turned over out there, 6 at least. So, I think that's -- I think that's going to pick 7 up, get going here pretty quick. Probably going today. 8 JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty good size hole they dug out 9 there already. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm telling you, man. 11 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any reports from 14 elected officials? You're not elected. Sheriff? 15 MS. HARGIS: I put my hand down. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick, first off, the 17 fire, Bruce, is under control. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only one department left on 20 the scene mopping up. It was out kind of by the Arlitts, 21 across from B.E. Quinn's area. 22 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Pretty good grass fire started 24 early this morning. I couldn't tell you how many acres or 25 anything it burned; I didn't have that information. 12-13-10 136 1 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They didn't set a fire on the 2 patio? I mean -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know how it started. 4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Quinn Ranch, I hope. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Secondly, as of this morning, 6 we're doing pretty good at the jail. The females were down 7 to 13. Male population was 138, and that was even with me 8 agreeing to house a couple of Gillespie County's, 'cause they 9 went over their maximum that they could -- Jail Commission 10 allows them to even have in there. So, that's even up a 11 couple from theirs. 198th still has 32 that are unresolved 12 in jail. 216th, 29. County Court at Law, 27. Other than 13 that, most of them are either on parole violations, waiting 14 to get transferred to T.D.C., or the new County Attorney 15 loves to give them county jail time for extended periods. 16 That I don't have a problem with; it does help some issues 17 there. That's about it. 18 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Work on the County Attorney? 19 Is that what you're telling us? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I'm not telling you that. 21 I think he ought to give them that. We just need a jail big 22 enough to hold them. 23 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other elected officials? 24 Department heads? 25 MS. HARGIS: You gentlemen asked for an insurance 12-13-10 137 1 -- I think I have enough there, but if not -- there's four. 2 You need one more? Do you have enough? Okay. This is -- 3 we're going to present this on a monthly basis, so I kind of 4 condensed this report. Mindy and I worked on this last week, 5 and the way that we've got it is in two separate sections. 6 The first section is designed very much like an income 7 statement, and it shows you that we had a beginning cash 8 balance of 121,755.47. Those moneys were left over from our 9 initial deposit with the UMR last December. That's what was 10 remaining out of 150,000. Then, as you can see, we got 11 interest. The County's portion is what comes out of the 12 employees' paychecks. The dependent portion is what comes 13 out of their paychecks. There's an opt-out supplement, 14 retirement money, lifetime claim payment. 15 We didn't make any transfers in October, stop loss 16 reimbursements, or other COBRA reimbursement, so that's the 17 total amount of cash that we had, 346,267.73 for the month of 18 October. We incurred claims of Script Care, basic life 19 claims, DataPath, H.R.A. card, and a COBRA payment totaling 20 189,602.24, leaving you a cash balance of 156,665.49. Carry 21 that cash balance forward, and as you can see, in order to 22 make the expenses for this month, we did transfer 155,000 23 that we're showing as a loan to the general fund. The total 24 expenses for the month, 554,809.37. I would note that the 25 last one for 151 is the initial deposit to Humana. Just like 12-13-10 138 1 we have the initial deposit to UMR, we have the initial 2 deposit that you have to pay up front, which is a month's 3 premium. So, that left us, even with the transfer in, of a 4 negative cash balance of 63,095.87. In December, we haven't 5 done everything, and this was just as of last Thursday. You 6 can see that we had taken in -- there's no employee portions, 7 because we haven't had our payroll yet for the month. We did 8 get a huge lifetime claim payment of 102,049.21. Again, we 9 transferred from the general fund 151; that's the 151 that we 10 had to pay as a deposit. And then we've got some COBRA 11 reimbursements. 12 I believe that one of the things that wanted to be 13 pointed out here was in the H.R. department, that the 14 lifetime claims, the stop loss reimbursements, and those are 15 the ones that they work on there, are especially hard to get 16 funds back for us. So, as of right now, we have 71,689.58. 17 And then we've got a year-to-date total over here on the side 18 so that you can kind of see where we're at. So, if we take 19 our money back, which is the 306, we're 234 in the hole. 20 That's cash. We have -- we have what we would call -- if you 21 remember, in the early days of payroll, we have what we call 22 an impression account where you would put money into the 23 payroll account to pay payroll checks, and it would just be 24 enough money to cover it. This is a health clearing account; 25 it's the very same premise. You put money in there, just 12-13-10 139 1 enough to cover, and then -- and then, basically, it's meant 2 to zero out on a monthly basis. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: What do we have pending in and 4 outstanding in the way of reimbursements, stop loss 5 reimbursements? 6 MS. HARGIS: I can't answer that. 7 MS. HYDE: I didn't know that this was going to be 8 discussed, so I have no idea at this point. 9 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, we're talking about 10 hopefully a significant sum, are we not? 11 MS. HYDE: We're looking at probably 250,000, 12 300,000. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 14 MS. HYDE: May or June. 15 MS. HARGIS: Okay. The second page is -- 16 JUDGE TINLEY: But that's accrued as of now, 17 ballpark? Yeah, okay. Thank you. 18 MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. 19 MS. HARGIS: Second page is budget-to-actual 20 expenditures. This is just budget-to-expense. We budgeted 21 179,470.58 per month. The dependent amount will vary, and 22 that will pick up from the cash side. That's -- it depends 23 on how many dependents are being covered in that particular 24 month. The retirees should be fairly consistent. Depends on 25 if any of them drop off. So, you have total budget of 12-13-10 140 1 204,526.08. The actual expenditures, again, are -- again, 2 those are going to be two budgets. Left is 14,923.94 for the 3 month of October. The month of November, the same budget, 4 except you can see that varied a little bit between the 5 employee -- the employees' amounts. We -- we had 6 expenditures of 554,000, which left us 351,000 in the hole. 7 We went ahead and put in what we had for January, which 8 leaves us -- we're still positive. There again, we haven't 9 made any payments, per se, out of -- out of this particular 10 month, except for some claims which you saw on the first 11 page. So, the total that we've spent is 869,717. The total 12 budget's 2 million, 2, so that leaves us 1,334,087.86. So, 13 if you take that from where we should be today, we're about 14 281,000 in the hole. So, that's what you wanted to see, that 15 we've had a lot of claims especially hit hard in the month of 16 November, with two variables, one being that we had to pay 17 money for the new plan, as well as our claims were high. We 18 don't have -- these claims are only through the -- 6th of 19 December? 20 MS. HYDE: I don't know what you guys did, Jeannie. 21 You guys didn't share it. 22 MS. HARGIS: So this is through the 6th of 23 December. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Interesting report. Back on 25 Page 1, your loan, the $155,000 loan to the general fund. 12-13-10 141 1 Who is the loanee? 2 MS. HARGIS: We are. We're loaning it to 3 ourselves. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. Where's 5 the money come from? 6 MS. HARGIS: The general fund. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comes from the general fund, 8 but you put it in the general fund? 9 MS. HARGIS: We put it into the health clearing 10 account. Remember, I described that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Transfer due -- 12 MS. HARGIS: Because we were out of cash in that 13 account to pay, so we basically did that. And we're tracking 14 that. And we've made transfers, and generally what happens 15 at the end of the year, there's usually some budget money 16 available, because there are people we -- the way the payroll 17 system works is a person has to be employed for that money to 18 actually transfer up to the cash side. So, we have people 19 that quit, people that when they come on board, they're not 20 qualified for 90 days, so there's a budgeted amount for every 21 single person in the county, but there's not a person sitting 22 in every single seat. We have 14 people who opted out of our 23 program last year, and I don't know what it is this year, but 24 they will go through the end of December, those 14 people. 25 Their money doesn't move up, because they don't get -- they 12-13-10 142 1 don't share in it. 2 So, what we do is a reconciliation. We did it last 3 year. We look at all those numbers that -- towards, you 4 know, August, and we see how much money -- budget money is in 5 those accounts, and we move it. It's very difficult to do it 6 during the year because of the variance. And we're dealing 7 with actual cash transfers of money, so we want to be very 8 careful when we move these, you know, positions that are 9 budgeted, but there's no one in them, because it's a payroll 10 function. We have to be sure that we don't mess up the 11 reports to I.R.S. and everything else. So, if there was an 12 easier way, believe me, we'd have figured it out already. We 13 hit on it for the last two years trying to figure out a 14 better way. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The employee/dependent, is 16 that a fluctuating number? 17 MS. HARGIS: It's a fluctuating number. Because, 18 again, if somebody quit and they had one employee, then they 19 would -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That happens, like, every 21 month? Or -- I mean, the numbers go up and down every month? 22 MS. HARGIS: (Nodded.) 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow. That's interesting. 24 Let's go back on this loan thing, so I'll understand. It 25 comes out of the general -- I mean, it comes out of insurance 12-13-10 143 1 money somewhere? 2 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And goes into the general 4 fund? 5 MS. HARGIS: No, it comes -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comes out of the general 7 fund, insurance money in the general fund. 8 MS. HARGIS: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's budgeted money? 10 MS. HARGIS: At this point, it's budgeted money. 11 At the end of the year is when we would be able to tell 12 whether it was not. Right now, it's still -- still within 13 the budget, because we still have a million, three remaining 14 in our budget. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Good report. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that -- 17 MS. HARGIS: It's going to be a 12-month report. 18 It will end up, you'll have all 12 months. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that last point, where would 20 it show up on the reports when we've expended our -- how much 21 is left in the budgeted number? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question. 23 MS. HARGIS: On the second page, because the second 24 page is just budget-to-budget. That -- those top numbers, 25 except for the dependents, which will vary a little bit, that 12-13-10 144 1 179 is our budget. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 MS. HARGIS: And so then the expenses are going to 4 be what they are, and at the end of the day, like I said, 5 we're 281,147.40 under what we should be right now. We 6 should be -- we should have a million, six left in our 7 insurance. We only have a million, three, so we're 281,00 8 less for this time frame than we should have. In other 9 words, we should -- with the new plan being 100 percent 10 covered, it pretty much will run with that, except we're 11 going to have runoffs, and we're going to have those for 12 probably six months or longer. So... 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, as we get -- you know, 14 either have a lower claim month, or we get the money that the 15 Judge was referring to, -- 16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Reimbursement. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- or the -- I guess we get the 18 -- the deposit at some point, so I guess we really -- we just 19 prepay that first month, correct? But at some point, you get 20 a -- that number at the end of the year ideally will be zero. 21 Instead of 16156, it will be 2153, and there should be no 22 variance. 23 MS. HARGIS: Should be no variance. In a perfect 24 world. But I don't think that -- you know, I'm not looking 25 for that perfect world this year, because our claims have 12-13-10 145 1 been exceptionally high. We all know that we have some real 2 high claims yet to come in. We have to pay those first, then 3 get reimbursed, so we're going to see a little bit of 4 fluctuation till we get into June. Because that's the one 5 thing about 100 percent coverage; at least we know the new 6 coverage starting January 1, we won't have any fluctuation, 7 but we still have claims for this first three months that are 8 going to be coming in for a while. We can't make them the -- 9 I mean, I think our H.R. department does an excellent job 10 trying to get people to pay these claims, and has called and 11 asked for those, but it doesn't always come. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 JUDGE TINLEY: The end of the road, once all the 14 claims for reimbursement have been resolved, that will tell 15 us what our -- what our net is at this point in time, though. 16 MS. HARGIS: I still think it's going to be June 17 before we really know, because -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: June, yeah. 19 JUDGE TINLEY: What we're talking about is the time 20 lag here on cash flow. And while right now we're showing 280 21 -- 280 negative, when it all sorts out at the end of the 22 trail -- 23 MS. HARGIS: We hope it's zero. 24 JUDGE TINLEY: Part of that's going to be offset by 25 pending claim stop loss reimbursements, hopefully. Hopefully 12-13-10 146 1 all of it. 2 MS. HARGIS: Some of it will be. 3 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, has anyone ever 5 starved to death in here? 6 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think so. Certainly, you 7 don't appear to be anywhere close to that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not me I'm thinking of. 9 I always think of others. 10 JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Is there anyone else that 11 has concerns about that at this point? I don't see anybody 12 raising that issue, Commissioner. Any other department heads 13 have any reports they wish to give us? Okay. At this time, 14 then, we will go out of executive or -- or, excuse me, open 15 or public session for the purpose of going into executive or 16 closed session to consider Item 26. 17 (The open session was closed at 12:36 p.m., and an executive session was held, the transcript of which 18 is contained in a separate document.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 JUDGE TINLEY: We are back in open or public 21 session at 12:51. Any member of the Court have anything to 22 offer with regard to any matters discussed in executive 23 session? Anything else to come before the Court at this 24 time? We will be adjourned. 25 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:51 p.m.) - - - - - - - - - - 12-13-10 147 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 17th day of December, 8 2010. 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12-13-10